Hear, hear! (And I say that to Nicole, not Believer...)

Believer - the answer to that is for any number of reasons, none of which are your or my business. 

So, in two days, Obama has lowered our security and is now sending our tax dollars overseas to fund abortions through executive order. Strange, Obama scrutinized executive orders during the campaign. Nicole, what about the wishes of women who don't want their hard earned money being sent to other countries to fund abortions? Don't they have any say? I forgot, tolerance works only one way with issues like these.

Breesus319

If you are asking me to pay for it I believe it is my business.  Would you be willing  to out of pocket for something that was not your choice.  Are ya kiddin me.  As for a women's wishes try not getting pregnant in the first place there are more than enough prevention options to prevent pregnacy.  Contray to the one sided propaganda during the sixties we managed to control ourselves it was the sensationalist that you heard not the norm!

Again, "STUPID @!$%#"!  A woman has no more right to "choose" murder than any other moron on the street.  How dare this inexperienced, arrogant-ass, islamic worshipping, @!$%# bastard continue to defame America with his liberal ass views and opinions!

Has Obama mentioned where in the Constitution it allows a President to use the publics money to fund abortions overseas?

it's one thing to respect a woman's wishes...it's another thing to force all of us to pay for it....

Aside from the obvious arguments over this policy, wtf is this:

"The Democratic official and the senior U.S. official who disclosed the plans did so to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to pre-empt Obama's announcement."

authorized to pre-empt Obamas announcement?  Did anyone reading the "journalists spar" article?  Obama really seems to be reeling in the media.  De-facto state run media or what?

Rightly amused: I guess Obama has another meaning for "transparency."

Since when was murder a wish ?

It's not exactly us paying for abortions. Under the current rule, the doctors in these clinics can't even discuss it as an alternative. They even mention abortion and boom, all funding is gone.

Now, it's an option for these women.

It is not just abortion, but family planning and birth control and some basic health services for women.  The world already has too many people, and in poor countries many can not feed the children they have, let alone more.   We need to be proactive in letting women know there are choices.

I remember when Bush pulled the plug on the funding for religious reasons (someone here asked about the constitution...)  as one of his first moves in office. I knew we were in trouble

It is funding to keep clinics afloat in areas where they are sorely needed.  Under Bush, if they even breathed the word "abortion" in discussing a woman's options they got no funding.  It was asked why they couldn't get funding for other services and not the abortions and he said it was because he didn't trust them. 

50% or more feel that the death penalty is morally wrong too. What's your point?

Excuse Me !

Why should I be funding any type of Clinic in the World that is not in the United States!!

I agree with everyone else that this is just another waste of our money!

Noticed I have tried to keep Morals and Ethics out of this argument, but if some of you insist on defending this issue on womens rights, then there should be no-holds-bared on this question!

If want to be promiscous without any regards for the consequences... then have the man who shares your bed  pay for the abortion... why should I pay for your irresponsibility??? 

Except for the future woman in the womb.

Ever wonder how great that person could be if they weren't aborted? another Einstein? Another Bethoven? another Abraham Lincoln? another Martin Luther King Jr ?

We will never know.

Just the idea of sending more of our money to another country for anything pisses me off, but this is as low as it gets.

Gee, you think the US should pay for Mexicans abortion or Kenyans?  I think we need to let those countries pay for their own women having abortions and keep that money right here in the US to feed some homeless people instead. 

Another of Obama's foreign aid increases!  Stop this now!

Well then...how about "I object to tax dollars going to fund a dubious war, killing thousands of people, lining the pockets of Haliburton and cronies of the Bush administration."  Seems we had no say in that one, so pardon me if I find your discomfort laughable.

Bilbo, you did have a say in this; its called an election. Bush is gone, Obama is our new President. He was elected based on certain promises or hopes.

For anyone to dismiss this discussion based on this argument has lost prospective of what the country is all about.

Nicole,

Respects woman wishes?  Do you understand that this allows the funding of the UNFPA an organization that supports forced abortions on woman?  This United Nations organization has been proven to be located in facilities where woman are held prisoner until they sign an authorization for an abortion.  These women are then strapped down and given injections to kill the baby and induce labor.  The woman can be in forced labor for over 24 hours giving birth to a dead baby that is now blackened as it has been dead for so long.  Did you know the UNFPA has been part of murders in the third Trimester? Their website claims that all abortions are voluntary; however, it has been proven to not be true.  It has also been proven that they are aware and support these abortions.

This seems like an outlandish accusation doesn't it.  Go to the Population Research Institutes web site and look it up.  They were the first to investigate and report on this atrocity.  They presented the information to President Bush who sent Colin Powell, who is pro-choice, to investigate.  He verified that these events were happening and he recommended that the funding be stopped.

Doing woman's wishes?  Obama is aware of these issues yet plans on funding the evil acts.  Look up the information it is so horrendous it sounds like a horror film; however, it is the truth and Obama supports it in the name of population control. The man you voted for has no morals.

I don't like the idea of using taxpayer money to fund this, but keep your lousy religious views to yourself.  That is my opinion.

It isn't a religious view.  Obviously you didn't watch it.  Ha Ha

Abortions for everyone.. The new form of birth control even into the 9th month.. Brought to you in a African village by BO and the US House and Senate.. coming soon to a town near you..

for 8 long years many clinics have been forbidden to even discuss options and alternatives for family planning during which time the number of aids cases has risen, the number of unwanted pregnancies has risen proving the abstinence only plan does not work, just look at palin's family

The funding goes to the clinics and agencies to perform much needed work, the main point the money is not directly going for abortions but rather for a multitude of needed counseling and prevention programs so what is wrong with that???

many argue about not wanting their tax dollars to fund something they do not believe in... well guess what many of all our tax dollars go to things we do not all believe in like 90+ billion to make more and bigger bombs, 100's of billions of dollars for an illegal war in Iraq, 100s of millions to corporate welfare for farmers and big oil, the list seems endless

It amazes me this is such a huge issue for some, the entire thing according to the fanatic pro lifers is flawed since no one is forcing anyone into an abortion, and most pro-lifers are not pro life at all since they are pro death penalty... utter hypocrisy to claim to be both, if one is pro life it would me pro all life seems most are just anti choice for all

Abortion is not about religion.  It is about science.  Do you see how the pro-death culture never mentions science.  It is because it does not support their arguments.  We have advanced to the point that we know the child is alive.  The baby can feel pain at four weeks.  It has arms, legs and a brain.  It can move, yawn and smile.  It is not a glob of tissue.  By the time abortions occur the baby feels the pain of death and is very active.

Science supports being pro-life! Stop hiding behind religious bigotry.  

Now, I know we as a nation, are headed to hell in a handbasket.  President Obama complained Bush killed thousands of Muslims and now Obama kills babies.  Im trying to give Obama a chance, but it is getting hard.  I put morals before anything else.  This is Bible.  Read it again Mr. President.

I don't want my tax money going for that! There are better ways to use it! If Oboma was aborted he would never be the President. That's it kill baby'swhat is the difference between that and killing our military? Knock out future tax payers or the next good president. Way to jump in there and kill little ones that can't defend themselves. Our country makes me so proud. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nicole,  I don't personally believe in abortion however I do believe in the right to choose.  What I don't want is my taxpayer money used in foreign countries for it.  Keep all of the money for use here in the US!!!

This is only the beginning.  He is going to control all news media and the internet, so get use to it you voted for the ??????.

And don't look and me for that one. Because I didn't! I knew what was going to happen and it is happening!

Why should I pay for murdering babies?  Go ahead and do it with your own money, but don't take mine and put your disgusting blood on it.

 I can't get it to post never mind.

Ok this will exercise the fruits and nuts on newsvine for the afternoon.Have fun

Nicole -

You need to delete or collapse some posts.  I would start with Saryndypyty.

And if one of my replies to Saryndypyty using the same word they use is offensive, delete that line.

On the one hand, it appears President Obama has taken a giant step toward reversing a policy based on Bush's right-wing religious fanaticism.

But more importantly, with this country in the financial shape it's in, why are we giving ANY money to foreign countries?  They'll still hate us, might as well use the money here.

Strange isn't it.  We close Gitmo to set terrorists and murders free and yet we condem the unborn to death.  This administration (and Congress) place no value at all on human life.  How sad.  What if Mr. Obama's mother believed in abortion?  Where would we be now?

Finally a man who has no clue as to what abortion does to a woman!

Here is a clue;

www.silentnomoreawareness.org

Rbach,

I happen to be pro-life and anti death penalty.  I don't believe WE have the right to take anyone's life.  What about you--are you for killing precious babies but saving convicted criminals.  Talk about hypocrisy!!!

Not this woman! We will eventually pay for this, for Gitmo's closing, etc.......

Strange isn't it.  We close Gitmo to set terrorists and murders free and yet we condem the unborn to death.  This administration (and Congress) place no value at all on human life.  How sad.  What if Mr. Obama's mother believed in abortion?  Where would we be now?

A lot better off?

Why all the dismay and concern. He rode into town with a promise of more government spending, approval of abortion and more liberal actions. You knew he was going to do this, all you had to do was listen to his campaign promises.

Why do we continue to use the euphimism "abortion" when it's actual medical term is pre-term delivery with death? Do you think so many people would still be in favor of it?

Give me a break!!!!!  I am so unbelievably tired of the abortion discussion.  DO NOT presume to know everyone's situation!!!  Stop making "blanket" statements about people who have abortions!!!  You have no idea what some people are going through. Most people who are against abortions, of any kind, are PRO WAR and pro gun rights.  How ridiculous!  That can't be anything more contradictory.

Being pro-choice DOES NOT make you pro-abortion!!!  Let's get that straight once and for all.  If my daughter came to me to say she had an unplanned pregnancy I would fully support her and help in any way that I could.  Not everyone is lucky enough to have that support system.  When we view the world from our warm, safe little bubble we cut ourselves off from reality.  Reality check:  incest & rape are a reality!!!

Yes...let's remove everyone's right to choose so that we can increase our numbers of babies born and then tied in garbage bags and tossed in dumpsters!!  Yes...let's force it back underground so now these, some times, desperate people become criminals.  What are you going to do with them?  Put them in our prison system.  Force them to go to the "Kansas City Butcher" in secret because they HAVE NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE??!!!

I say again...GIVE ME A BREAK.  News Flash... Roe v. Wade WILL NEVER be overturned.  Instead of wasting so much time and energy on this pleasegive your child all the support they need, talk to their friends, become involved at Planned Parenthood, and schools so that kids see there are other options.  Let's support birth control and education, especially to young girls and boys, so that we can help prevent kids / women from even needing abortion as an option.

Yes, another baby killer but he and the democrats will answer to GOD for what y'all are doing. GOD BLESS all the babies that will be murdered by your kind. Y'all better pray to GOD for forgiveness.

In these third world countries the women are raped. So, providing family planning isn't going to help these women. I am pro-choice and a Republican. I don't mind educating these women on their options, but, I don't think OUR TAX $$ should go to providing abortions to people. If they want one, then they should have to pay for it, like other people in this country. They should also be under the same regulations as are country, regarding how far along they can be to have one.

Also, as far as AIDS is concerned, again it has to do with these villages that don't understand how AIDS is spread, they won't use condoms. The men rape or have sex with young girls thinking it is the only way to not get AIDS but they already have it and are spreading it around. We (the USA) have been there, paid for the education, provided it to the people and they don't get it, don't want to use it - it doesn't work. So basically, we might as well just burn the money because it will do the same amount of good.

A womans wishes or her husband/boyfriends/governments?

His actions will ensure that women and young girls around the world can be coerced and threatened into having abortions.  Why not enact human rights laws for women and stronger penalties for rights violations or provide women healthcare and parenting classes.  Abortion doesn't free women it enslaves them.

neighbor,

It appears that you may believe that this is a 30 year old debate.  It is not.  The first Catholics in the year 70 AD outlawed abortion.  This is in the Didache and can be reviewed.  The Catholics fought against the Roman use of abortion and won.  Abortion truly did not begin to present itself until the 1930s when Protestants began to accept contraceptives.  When this occured abortion stormed forward.  I am not saying that abortions did not occur.  I am stating that the fight against abortion was won and will be won again.  I do not know how or when; however, people will stop focusing on their material life and come to recognize that life is a blessing.  They will want to have the child.

Some stats from the pro-death group Guttamacher Institute.  Over 75 percent of woman having abortions do it because they do not want the responsibility of a child.  60 percent have more than one. Over 75 percent of the woman have at least a high school education.  Over 33 percent have some college.  Abortions related to rape and incest are less than 2,000 incidents per year.  Over 1 million abortions occur in the US alone each year.  To pretend that the bulk or even half of the abortions are related to poor uneducated woman with nothing just is not true.  It is a life style choice for most men and woman.  They got pregnant and instead of taking responsibility they chose to kill and be done with the problem.

first off our country is in a financial crisis so let's give other countries money to help fund abortion that makes sense. he talks about leading the world by our morals well i think its plain he don't have any we have truly become an Abomanation. (Obama nation) Its sad to see how far America has straid from her roots                                

Wow - I was not aware that that the definition of abortion was family planning and birth control.

Obama signed a bill to reinstate FAMILY PLANNING funding to clinics around the world.  He has stopped the US governments dictatorial restrictions that said if you do not do obey me then I will not speak to you anymore.  He campaigned on cutting the number of elective abortions during his term.  Well if he gets birth control out there to woman who do not want or can not afford children then there goes the abortion rate into a downward slide.  If he can stop unwanted pregnancies through birth control and counseling is that not better then the alternative?  A prior seed on newsvine discussed the selling of young children into slavery because families could not afford to feed or house their own children, so now we (USA) offer them a way not to have too many children, and this is bad?  Less poverty, less unwanted children, better PR around the world, healthier babies due to prenatal care (part of family planning), and healthier woman due to medical professionals being available to counsel them.  Sounds like a win-win to me.

"The world already has too many people"

So then, what's wrong with a little war, or a terrorist attack here and there?

TinTexas

I am pro life and believe we should be helping to stop ALL forms of murder including illegals wars.

I am pro choice ( doesn't mean I condone abortion but does mean someone else abortion is between them and their higher power) it is not my business to attempt to control how others live their lives

It is about time! In addition, contraceptives and sterilization should be free world-wide.

Abortion is the ultimate act of selfishness.  Just because a child doesn't fit into your schedule or lifestyle is no reason to commit murder.

Have you ever tried to disrespect a black woman? that man has no choice in the matter...

Hello there is Adoption!! That is better then feeling as if you killed a person!

There is only one word for anyone who aborts a human life... MURDERER!

50% or more feel that the death penalty is morally wrong too. What's your point?

How many people on death row were executed last year? Now...how many abortions were performed last year?

Any more questions?

Hope Texas, while adoption is sometimes a good alternative, it works best for healthy white babies. Adam Hermann was an unwanted child and eventually adopted at age 4, but he's been missing for ten years and his adoptive parents never reported him missing! He was too much trouble for them because he was not the perfect, well behaved child that adoptive parents think they're getting. Another example, this rabid pro-life woman who used to work with me insisted birth was the only answer. She adopted two boys and they turned out to have problems so she ABANDONED them. That's horrible. Then there is the story of Dennis Jurkins in White Bear Lake-adopted by a rabid Christian women who religiously read the Bible, but she killed him when he was three for getting his Bible verses wrong. She also forced him to eat his own vomit at times. Other good Christians saw this happening and did nothing. This is mostly what I've seen with adoption, unless it's a perfect little white baby no older than three months. I think those turn out okay, until they get older and the adoptive parents realize the child has fetal alcohol syndrome and is not the precious little angel they expected. Yeah, when child abuse is eliminated from the world, then we can start eliminating abortion altogether, but in my eyes, not until those horrors are gone for good. That's the real crime.

Well, as a single person with no kids and no plans to ever have kids, why should my tax money go to public schools.

If I decide to give up cars and mass transit and walk everywhere, why should my tax money go to roads and highways?

If I decide to fund my own retirement, why should my tax money go to social security?

I could go on and on.

Anyway, I think very few people are actually in favor of abortion.  Most people are simply in favor of choice. 

If this is your idea of a man, it explains a lot about you as a human being.  I pity your children, your friends and your social group.  People that do not respect human life do not respect themselves or others either.  It manifests itself in all areas of their life.  It also comes around in ways you probably do not want to believe either.  The long and short of this is that the society that does not value all human life is doomed to cave in on itself.  Killing fetuses is not a choice--it is murder.  Rationalize all you want, but that is the cold hard fact.  Listen to your heart, but think with your head--not your thighs!

Our illustrious presidente obamanation is clueless about consequences  as evidenced by the first four things he signed as president and gets a free pass from the mainstream media when he can't tell us what happens as a result.  God help us and forgive us for our ignorance. 

A woman's wish is to waste taxpayers dollars on overseas abortions? Nicole, get a life. Whether you are pro-life/choice sending OUR tax dollars overseas to fund abortions is not a good decision. ESPECIALLY in these difficult times. Funny thing...he's sending over more debt for our grandchildren to pay off. What happened to the change talk? Middle of the road??? That road he's on is already swaying FAR LEFT....

Economy in turmoil, people losing their jobs, people losing their houses, healthcare prices out of reach for many and we're sending money to other countries to kill unborn babies.  You libs are truly sick and so far out of reach with what the people who voted for you need, it's unthinkable.

Also, less than brilliant minds at the all liberal, all the time MSNBC, this was NOT a BUSH policy you idiots, it was originally ordered by President Reagan in 1984, continued by President Bush the 1st, reversed by President Clinton and then reinstated by President Bush the 2nd.  Maybe you guys should read FoxNews.com so you can publish an accurate story.

Nicole and Neighborhood, thank you for a poignant and informative post. So many of these posts seem to be the rants of radicals and not very well thought out. I do not consider myself to be pro-abortion, but I am pro-choice. All the government says is that it's a woman's right to choose. But we have this religious organization that seems to want to force their beliefs down our throats. This country was built on religious freedom, so they have the right to feel and believe as they choose. What they do not have is the right to force us to conform to their ways of thinking. I actually feel sorry for some of the people who have posted because for them to be so near to knowing what God's will is for everyone, they seem to have forgotten so many of the other teachings. I thought that God was love and they seem to be casting so much hate toward anyone who disagrees with their opinion. Mighty mean-spirited!!!

Crazy Cajun, you need to crawl back under the rock, from whence you came. But first, enroll in a spelling course! To even insinuate what you said lets me know that there are still people in this world with the darkest of hearts. May God have mercy on your soul!!!

A woman's wishes? With our tax dollars? In the middle of a recession and huge bail out? Are you insane? Is this our priority? To kill all babies domestic and abroad? But not the terrorists? You are delusional if you think that's the right thing to do.

ABORTION IS NOT PRO CHOICE.........IT IS PRO DEATH.........AND WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW SICK IS THAT!!!!

Jerry says: "Ever wonder how great that person could be if they weren't aborted? another Einstein? Another Bethoven? another Abraham Lincoln? another Martin Luther King Jr ?"

This is such a ridiculous argument.  It's just as likely the person being aborted could have been the next Hitler, Osama Bin Laden or Charles Manson. 

ILUVAMERICA... you dont' get it, it's not about pro this or that. He's allowing OUR tax dollars to go overseas for abortions. In these tough times. If you luv america then we need to take care of our problems now. Not spend tax dollars to go into more DEBT so that some lady that isn't American, not the same rights in those countries, can have an abortion. Wake up! Quit walking around like a obamazombie. He has made a mistake here. Just as he as flip flopped with the defense appointee. Come on..you really didn't think he was going to change, did you? I guess you did as many more did. You are all in for a rude awakening.

make a baby...abort..........make a baby...abort...........i'll pay my own way way so i don't have to hear all crybabys cryin'............don't tell me what don't to do............Roe V Wade 36 years and still going strong...........it's my choice, not yours

Jabbo, it is you who has not gotten it. You hear one part of something, never hear the rest and all of a sudden you can make judgements.  It amazes me that people who are not political scholars seem to understand the complexities of these very complex governmental bills.  Try reading the full text of the bill and get back to me.  All you hear is that our tax dollars will go to funding abortions.  What the bill says is that we will not limit aid to countries simply because they happen to mention your unmentionable word during the course of their discussion. And for years your tax dollars have been funding death and genocide all over the globe. So spare me the self-righteous rhetoric now about how you do not want your tax dollars to fund international abortions!

Argueing that someone can't be opposed to abortion and for war is ridiculous. I'm strongly opposed to all abortion, it's murder plain and simple. I believe that unfortunately war is sometimes necessary. Am I contradicting myself? NO!

If I shot Hitler or Osama am I a murderer? NO! I have performed a good deed. I have killed to very evil men, but I have not murdered them.

If I killed a baby then that is murder, no excuses ever!

Is war wrong? It depends on why you are engaging in war. If it is for selfish reasons then yes, if it is for defense then no.

It's funny how abortion supporters would call it murder if someone killed Obama because he's helping fund abortions, but they have no problem in killing helpless babies.

OK, outlaw abortions and have all the GOP'ers support the kids...Oh wait,,,,I forgot that's welfare....can't do that.....put 'em in an orphange...oh wait,,,that's supported by my tax dollars, and I ain't supportin' no bastard....I know, force the mothers to have the kid, ship 'em over to Iraq or Afghanistan to fight the terrorists....yeah that'll kill two birds with one stone.....cause we obviously DON'T care if they die after they are OUT of the womb....such HYPOCRITES!!!!!

I find it so strange that so many Christians and Sikhs voted for Obama when they knew he was going to support abortion, even though they know that voting for a pro-abortion candidate is completely opposite to the teachings of their/our/my religion. There are even aetheists who didn't vote for Obama because they knew he supported abortion. These aetheists are more moral then alot of Sikhs and Christians.

This may suprise some people, but there are people who are pro-life and care about both the unborn and the born. I still care about what happens to the children after they are born. When I get married (if I ever get married considering it is nearly impossible to find a true Gursikh girl today) I plan to adopt quite a few kids, I don't care if they are not perfect angels, I'd do the best I could to raise them into proper adults no matter how dificult that may be.

I also want to become a doctor and I plan to give away most of my money, and also give generously of my time. I know I'm not the only person like this, there must be plenty of other people who are both pro-life and care about what happens after these babies are born and become adults.

One last thing I find rather strange is that these liberals who defend abortion rights complain about how it would be wrong to not allow a women who has been raped to have an abortion, yet they are opposed to the death penalty.

Why is it ok to murder an innocent child who was brought into this world by some sicko who raped a women, but it is unacceptable to kill a rapist who intentionally commited a heinous act?

Instead of murdering babies produced by rape, why not kill the rapist?

I am not a liberal, but listen for the ones to do wrong and get the death penalty, they got to make a choice to do right or wrong. The babies that are being killed, just think you took their rights from them to have a choice it the matter.

I am not talking religion and I haven't at all. You liberals want freedom of choice, but yet you just took someone Else's freedom of choice and killed them. Think about it. So if you are going make a babies choice for them and feel it is right, then maybe you need someone to make choices for you.

We can't control abuse in this world, but you can control killing a baby or not killing a baby!

There's a bigger issue at play. Obama said over and over we will have to make cuts in spending and make hard financial decisions. This was a major play in his campaign.

How does funding abortion overseas fit into this dogma?????????????????

In case you didn't pick up on this, this has been a consistent partisan issue sine 1980.  Reagan and Bush 1 stopped it Clinton allowed it and Bush 2 stopped it again. 

But again the bigger issue is not abortion in and of itself it's the financial irresponisbility he is already showing in the midst of one of the worst economies we have ever seen. 

All you morons who voted against Bush rather than for a candidate look in the mirror and thank yourself for dooming future generations to pay for ignorant moronic liberal spending that will occur in the next four years. And keep the Bush bashing to yourselves it's old news and tired.  And quite frankly your beloved liberals in Congress allowed "his" war to continue, so quit blaming Bush when your party could have stopped the war and brought the troops home years ago.

I think Obama has made a grave mistake. I DO NOT believe federal money should be spent for women to kill unborn babies.  If you want to murder your child, you should do it on your own dime and not taxpayers dollars, which I am one of them

What a joke! Now it is feasible that a 13 year old can get their wishes of an abortion without even parents consent, and we the US will fund it because we have SOOOO much money. And, all of us can fund it because we believe that it is okay to take the life of an innocent baby that we give NO rights !!! But lets save all the kittens and puppies that are abused.  I get it! How sick! This is what the majority of the US citizens wanted???? I do not think so! Again, what a joke!

I agree it's just a political move. What this is doing is putting more of our tax dollars into the world's issues. Say what you like about abortion, but common sense would be keep as many of our dollars at home in the middle of a recession.

People would be decrying this if Bush chose to do this (this of course is rhetorical).

Given the outcry as far as the war on terror and Gitmo, why not also decry this as a waste of our money - especially since our taxes will rise because of it. People probably will not believe me, but the extra expense will have to come somewhere, and the government can only get money in the form of taxes.

Actually, no more tax dollars will be spent on these programs.  It will just not allow the government to recind the funding if a practitioner offers abortion as an option.

Don't kid yourself, Andrea.  If our tax dollars, which are desparately needed here, are spent abroad to kill children there, then what else gets cut out of the budget?  If nothing gets cut out, but we have to start funding abortions overseas, then more tax money is needed.  Planned parenthood already gets $350 billion per year from our hard-earned tax money, and now Obama wants to waste more of our tax dollars.  It's an Obamanation!

It doesn't matter he got ten million dollars in donations from Planned Parenthood.  Obama will do anything to win even kill babies. Does anyone realize that when he states he wants to reduce abortions publically that he votes against pregnancy crisis center funding.  His rhetoric and his votes are not the same.

Perry: Do you have the name of this bill Obama voted against? I'd like to find out for sure what the deal is over this one, as I'd not heard of it. Please tell me it's not another "he voted to kill babies from botched abortions" BS like the Repubs tried to pull in the elections. That particular bill had a lot more wrong with it than the neocon mouthpieces would have us know or believe, so I'm a little wary of these kinds of arguments.... I'm not specifically doubting what you have to say, I'm just cautious and curious to see the information for myself rather than just believe what I read.

Of course it was a political move he has to pay back George Sorros somehow.. He is also in debt politically to the NOW Gang and to every leftist blog out there .. his is just the beginning him and Nancy have big plans.

Why restrict killing babies only to the unborn, maybe obama will get tired of his own or maybe they will become inconvienent, then what? Murder is Murder from the moment of conseption.

Michelle,

I will find it.

I wonder why you do not believe the botched abortion vote.  You can go on-line and see where a nurse spoke with him about the subject.  He then voted against the bill four times stating it was unconstitutional.  Yet the same exact bill passed under Bush without any Constitutional problems.  Supposedly Obama was taught about the Constitution in his education. 

Later when his votes where brought up he no longer stated that it was unconstitutional.  He then stated that another Illinois law already covered this area.  He knew it did not.  The law he talked about let the abortion doctor save the baby if he so chose.  Tell me why would an abortion doctor that was trying to kill the baby suddenly decide to save the baby? It would lead to malpractice lawsuits.  Why would one so callous that killing a baby did not effect him suddenly become overcome with care that he would try to save the child.  Remember an abortion can include jabbing a scissors in the back of a fully developed babies head.  Jabbing an instrument into the babies skull, scrambling it about and then sucking it brains out.  So this calous man would suddenly wish to save a child? Non-sense and Obama knows it.  Obama knew the law did not cover this area.  It was another attempt at misdirection.  He is very good at it.

Late in 2007, RHrealitycheck.org, a prominent pro-abortion advocacy website (representing the side hostile to such funding), submitted in writing the following question to the Obama campaign:  "Does Sen. Obama support continuing federal funding for crisis pregnancy centers?"  The Obama campaign's written response was short, but it spoke volumes:  "No."

The party of death gets right down to business, no time to wait, there are children to kill. The cold blooded murder of babies will be known as our greatest sin by future civilizations. It is evil, plain and simple, evil.

Where did you get 60 trillion. Worldwide the estimated cost of the banking crisis is 50 trillion. Bush only left us in th hoe by 10.5 trillion. Do you know something we do not know like maybe he hid 50 trillion somewhere?

By 2010 we won't even recognize our country anymore.  Obama knows he has to cram every bit of his liberal agenda through congress now because in Fall of 2010, there will be hell to pay as the House and Senate will be significantly CHANGEd from its current make-up.  This is like the last thing 90% of US voters want to see money spent on.  Memories are short but not that short, Nancy, Harry, and a host of others, be afraid, be very afraid.

Ah, the "party of death".  Who declared an illegal war that killed thousands????? I didn't want my tax dollars going for THAT, but they did. 

Perry: Thanks. I'll look for that info. And I appreciate that your opinions, though I don't necessarily agree with them, are not bound up with insults and hyperbole. It makes it a lot easier to take you seriously and actually have a debate with you than the 10-year-olds who just rant incessantly about us horrible, baby-killing, America-hating liberals.

As far as the Illinois bill goes, it is my understanding that Obama voted against it because: 1. It was redundant. There was already a suitable law on the books in Illinois; 2. It was unnecessary. By the oath that doctors take, they can't just let a botched aborted fetus just die once it draws a breath; and 3. It was poorly written. The way this bill was written would have undermined Rowe v. Wade (which is precisely what the sponsor of the bill had in mind all along, I suspect).

We already have enough useless, unenforceable laws on the books. If we can't write a law that's clear and plain, then it should not be passed. For the record (in case you couldn't tell) I am definitely pro-CHOICE. I do not, however, believe in late term abortions and think they should be banned unless the mother's life is at risk. I also don't believe that abortion should be used as birth control, though I think that cases of that are fairly rare. It is so easy to make light of the situation women find themselves in, but having a baby is not like getting a pet or buying furnature. I don't believe that abortion is EVER an easy choice to have to make, but going back to the days of coat-hanger and back alley abortions is not the direction we should be going. We need to give MORE information about health issues, not less. And the so-called "abstinence only" programs so touted by the Bush Administration do not get the job done and put a lot of people at risk in a lot of ways they don't need to be.

I don't know what the solution is, Perry, but just saying "don't do this, it's illegal" has never worked very well. Desperate people will find a way, and what we need is to avoid getting in those situations in the first place. More education, and less finger shaking and moralizing can only be a good thing in the long run.

END tax exempt status for ALL religious organizations.  I do not wish to subsidize the agendas of every self-avowed preacher crackpot in America, nor the Catholic Church, nor the Mormon Church, nor the MegaChurch.

End government support of Planned Parenthood...the ceo makes $500,000+ per year, and they post record profits, yet still want more government funding. This is an easy area in which taxpayers could be saved a lot of money. They can provide for charity cases out of the wealth of their own pockets, and solicit like minded donors for support. I do not wish to subsidise the agendas of every self avowed pro choice crackpot in America.

Planned Parenthood also operates with health care payments, for those insured but not great health insurance, and donations - of which I do donate annually.  They get funding to take care of poor women, you know, the ones all the hypocrite right wing nuts b!tch about having babies but who in this case are getting family planning - birth control.  Wish we lived in your perfect world - then I woke up, darn, it's not perfect.

The same hypocrites who don't want to pay extra taxes for school services, technical/college training - and the subsequent prisons that overflow.  Duh.  Oh boo hoo, they say, the poor should quit having babies they can't support - but then don't want to adopt a baby whose momma was a crack addict or left them neglected for 2 years or until school age, before social services figured out they were in danger and now learning disabled.  But pay for family planning for the poor, or, gasp, an abortion??  Heinous!  (sarcasm)  You will pay, you don't have to like it, the majority rules in this case, too bad.

Ah, the "party of death".  Who declared an illegal war that killed thousands????? I didn't want my tax dollars going for THAT, but they did.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Can you conceive that some people oppose both the war and abortion? Why is one form of murder acceptable over another, with the form that is acceptable dependent on which side of the fence you are leaning on? You didn't want you tax dollars going to the war--neither did I. You want your tax dollars to go to those who advocate and promote abortion--I don't. You see one party of death. I see that there are two Parties of Death.

DD,

You are sadly misinformed concerning the poor.  Planned Parenthood targets minorities groups.  80 percent of their sites are in poor neighborhoods.  Did you know abortion is the number one racist act occurring in our country.  More African Americans have been killed via aobrtion than were slaves.  Did you know their are less African American's today than there were in 1973. Did you know that one out of four African Americans have been killed via abortion.  Did you know that Obama is aware of these facts yet he took 10 million dollars from Planned Parenthood?

Did you know that MLK stated abortion is the number one enemy of African American's.  That it has done more to destroy African American's than the Ku Klux Klan could ever do.  Yet OBama supports them. 

Where did you get 60 trillion. Worldwide the estimated cost of the banking crisis is 50 trillion. Bush only left us in th hoe by 10.5 trillion. Do you know something we do not know like maybe he hid 50 trillion somewhere?

$60 Trillion is the minimal projected deficit at current rates that we will face including the SS/Medicare time bomb for which there is no fix in site.

This problem is truly bi-partisan as jokers in both parities have allowed it to develop without restraint and without resolution. It could be the end of our nation as a superpower and is by far the greatest threat to national security we face.

Youtube "IOUSA 30 minute version" and enlighten yourself.

Planned Parenthood is a nationwide organization and the CEO only makes $500,00. Most CEOs of national corporations would call that chicken feed.

Also, no funding has been handed out. This action does not give money to organizations. It only changes restrictions if funding is available.

DD50

END tax exempt status for ALL religious organizations.  I do not wish to subsidize the agendas of every self-avowed preacher crackpot in America, nor the Catholic Church, nor the Mormon Church, nor the MegaChurch.

I would warn you that this is inflamatory and could get you into trouble.

Look - let's be real here - the churches are already under persecution by people such as you. They can hardly cough without risk of losing their tax exempt status. Mention even once about how homosexuality is wrong in the bible (oh, BTW, I do include other marriage issues), abortion to a point, etc., you can lose your status.

Yet - people who thrash Christianity, support things against it, some cases potentially do illegal things (i.e. ACORN - and I say potentially because it's under investigation) etc. are rarely if at all in danger of losing THEIR tax status.

I'm not going to say which side I'm with - however, I think the case in point is Obama is planning on using OUR tax money to fund abortions overseas to people who are NOT citizens of the United States. Like the war - it's a waste of our money when it can be used to rebuild our economy.

It's bad enough we are having to fund illegal immigrants' Medicaid and welfare because they cross the border to have a child on our soil (i.e. "Right of land") - and if I'm reading it right there's talk about granting them amnesty (meaning - "you did wrong, but oh well"). People were decrying Bush over that and other ideas he had.

Now, people are saying that Obama's idea of "spending money to fund overseas abortions is fine and dandy. We have to respect the woman's rights." Talk about your double standard.

Also, for those who keep saying we are in an illegal  war - stop. WMDs have been found (though liberal thinking associates the term WMD with nuclear warheads, not chemical like Saran Gas, Anthrax or other biological warfare).

Also - CONGRESS voted to go into war. Bush could only make a declaration - Congress had to approve the declaration - and sorry, some of your favorite Democrats DID vote for the war. Blame Bush if you want (he is afterall part of the issue), however, if you wish to lay blame do it fair and blame BOTH him and Congress.

It's a long thread, folks, but here's the way I see it.  If you still have the stamina to read more, that is...

The Mexico City Policy is inappropriate because of its totality.  It doesn't distinguish between operations providing family planning (contraception), which also comes with a component of sex education (prevention of STD's), and operations performing abortions.  The policy essentially takes the intractible position that abstinence is the only policy, end of story.  While that's a nice idea, I believe most of us can agree it's an untenable one.

This kind of wholesale opposition to women's health groups facilitates a lot more unwanted pregnancies and disease than prevent abortions.

The message that it sends in practice is that our policy makers haven't taken women's issues (and even public health issues) into consideration.

I think the Religious Right honestly believes that pro-choice proponents salivate over daydream of dead babies all day.  I don't think there's an organization out there proselytizing young women to advance the idea of the-womb-as-death-chamber.  Abortion is universally treated by the medical community as a last-resort.  Every medical professional on the planet would prefer there not be an unwanted child to abort.

Now, to the point:  I sympathize with pro-life people.  I certainly understand why one would resent public funds going toward projects he/she finds morally objectionable.  But realize that political interests always present things in their own preferred, most convenient light.  The faction that would tell you this is only about killing babies edits out the greater part of the picture.

I would suggest to people on the Right that they accept that a wholesale refusal to sponsor organizations promoting family planning and public health and to write their representatives, urging them to draft a workable document that can discriminate between organizations providing abortions from those providing contraception.

Edit:  "I would suggest to people on the Right that they accept that a wholesale refusal to sponsor organizations promoting family planning and public health IS MISINFORMED and to write their representatives, urging them to draft a workable document that can discriminate between organizations providing abortions from those providing contraception."

Edit:  "I would suggest to people on the Right that they accept that a wholesale refusal to sponsor organizations promoting family planning and public health IS MISINFORMED and to write their representatives, urging them to draft a workable document that can discriminate between organizations providing abortions from those providing contraception."

IF the US wants to provide humanitarian aid let it be in the form of FOOD and WATER. The US has NO BUSINESS killing babies or passing out condoms overseas...

Not a single CENT more is being spent on this Mr. Rogers. Pay attention! Obama has wisely opened up the funding to include agencies that support or provide abortions. He is not saying that the women have to have them if they don't want them. They can use the funding for them if they choose or they can use it for birth control or any other family planning activity. The funding is already there and being used (under Bush too), but it's more open now. Bush only used it for absistence only crap, which doesn't work (Ask Bristol Palin). And Mr. Rogers, we have been passing out food and water to people overseas for a long, long time, but they are still hungry. There is not enough food for all of them and there will be worse shortages if the population is not limited. There are still children who didn't ask to be born starving a slow miserable death. That is more wrong than  a million abortions. I had one in college and I am not suffering at all now ,as a side note. I help others when I can and take good care of the PLANNED son I have now. If there's a heaven I will go there.  Those who think abortion is wrong, but it's okay to throw the little thing in the garbage should go to hell. Those who insist that every single baby is born, but stand by while there are children starving should go to hell. Those who don't want their hard earned money going for health care for all children should stop insisting they are all born. Every single person who has a problem with abortion should adopt an AIDS baby or an older child that has problems. If you're not willing to do that, then you have no right to even mention that someone else should not have an abortion. Shame on you.

Perry said: "Does anyone realize that when he states he wants to reduce abortions publically that he votes against pregnancy crisis center funding.  His rhetoric and his votes are not the same."

"Late in 2007, RHrealitycheck.org, a prominent pro-abortion advocacy website (representing the side hostile to such funding), submitted in writing the following question to the Obama campaign:  "Does Sen. Obama support continuing federal funding for crisis pregnancy centers?"  The Obama campaign's written response was short, but it spoke volumes:  "No."

These "crisis pregnancy centers" have a hidden pro-life agenda.  They are not medical centers.  They do not provide abortion services or referrals or birth control services.  They are basically a place to go and get bullied into not having an abortion.  They dupe women with deceptive advertising that makes one think they are an actual medical clinic.  They place ads in phone books under "abortion services" so a woman thinks she is calling an abortion provider or a reproductive health clinic, and does not find out otherwise until she is there.  Once there, these women are forced to listen to a religious lecture, and are given misinformation, such as linking breast cancer, mental problems and infertility to abortion.  Some have been known to give women ultrasounds showing a different baby that is much farther along than the woman's actually is, so that the woman thinks it is too late to get an abortion.  They promise financial assistance if the women forgoes an abortion, then will cut off the money once it is too late for the woman to get an abortion.  Many of these centers will call women long after their appt. is over to harrass them about their decision.  They prey on young and low-income women.  These are NOT medical clinics and should NOT be federally funded. 

That, Perry, is why Obama answered NO when asked if he supported funding for these clinics.  And if you had bothered to actually look at the RHrealitycheck website you quoted, you could have found this out for yourself.

  Those who think abortion is wrong, but it's okay to throw the little thing in the garbage should go to hell. Those who insist that every single baby is born, but stand by while there are children starving should go to hell. 

 One should be very carefull in dealing out eternal jdugment. I woudln't dare attempt to guess where you would or should go after this life...

Even as I write this, I know I'm just stoking the fire... But...

Even if Mr. Rogers is not attempting to guess what our eternal fates might be, theological aversions to public policy certainly voice their positions in a judgmental tone.  When someone is against birth control and disease awareness, I presume it's on some religious basis.  That's certainly their prerogative, but not our policy's prerogative.

If any reader believes there should be a union of church and state, I'd advise them to write their representative and do a lot of organizing for the cause.  And until that time, accept that our laws must take compassion into consideration.

God have mercy on our President's soul! This isn't a case of "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do"; it's "Father, forgive them even though they know perfectly well what they do." Cheer up, believers! The end is in sight.

Glad to see that the religious right still owns a patent on what is defined as a Christian.  Must be someone who opposes abortion and birth control, supports the death penalty and illegal wars, opposes charity (since the lazy so and so's should be working) and thinks (?) just like you.

I am a Christian and I deeply resent the right wing nut fringe trying to coopt my religion.

Self proclaimed conservatives are over three times more generous to charities, with their money, than self proclaimed liberals.

Liberals are only generous with other peoples money!

Fulmer - Citation needed. That's the first I've heard of it.

Many people on this post are missing the point entirely. They are so hung up on the one issue of abortion that nothing else matters. Staunch right to lifers care so much for the unborn, but after the kids are born...."you're on your own". And it's not OK to "murder innocent fetus" but it's perfectly OK to engage in an illegal war and kill thousands of innocent men, women and children. Get OFF it already.

Can we agree that the goal should be to reduce or even eliminate unwanted pregnancies? That was Obama's point and the driving force behind this move today!

More important....the funding for these family planning clinics was already allocated. This isn't new funding.... But some beurocrat made the decision to cut off funding based on idealogy...This is a form of censorship. But more important, the money was still allocated....where'd it go? Who's pocket did it line? What other programs did it go to? The funding was REAL, it didn't just vaporized. Someone pocketed the cash.

And for the person who suggested abstinence, ask Sarah Palin how that worked out for her daughter, eh? Not so good.

Open your hearts enough to recognize, the work these clinics are doing is saving lives and giving the mothers options! Isn't that what we were trying to accomplish?

I believe the lines are drawn more between religious and secular when it comes to charitable giving:

Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent).

Source: http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3447051.html

Patriot Tom,

Did you forget it is not your religion.  It is God's.  To place yourself as the core of Christianity is not only wrong it shows why moral relatvism is so rampant in our country.  Christ is the center of the Universe and we revolve around him.  Christ doesw not revolve around us.  The distinction is important because we are to do his will.  To kill a creation of his is evil and directly confronts God's authority. 

seculars want the government to do it for them

And some of the biggest tax cheats, liars, thieves, or adulterers I've known were "good church goin' Christians" and some of the most upstanding decent God fearing folks I know are not the "chursh goin'" type.

So what's your point?

We volunteer because it's a gratifying experience, like in Habitat for Humanity, where a low income family gets to see their new home for the first time. That is a heart warming and life changing experience.

JT,

Your post is wrong on many levels. First this funding as my first post shows pays for forced abortions in foreign countries.  Certainly not all; however, funds that go to the UNFPA certainly supports these evil acts.  Go to Population Research Institute to find out more. Again Colin Powell verified that the UNFPA was supporting forced abotions.

The one issue claim simply is not true.  Pro-lifers are concerned about all issues.  The pro-death culture has effectively marketed this concept to people that are not actively involved.  Pro-life issues extend beyond abortion to embryonic stem cell research, euthanisia and yes the death penalty.  It also includes the well being of the mothers having children.  For example that Catholic Faith is by far the largest charity in the world.  They not only support woman with the decision to not have an abortion.  They support the woman financially.  They provide housing, education and training.

Obama speaks of reducing abortion; however his action do not support this thoughts.  He has repeatedly voted to reduce funding for pregnancy crisis centers.  It is a shame how he intentionally misrepresents his actions.  Anytime one has to lie about ones record shows that it is an evil record. Go to the web and look up Michelle Obama's fundraiser supporting partial birth abortions.

Open your hearts to forced abortions. Open your hearts to killing a baby.  Why don't we open our hearts to adopting and taking care of the child? Why does the baby have to die?  It is sentenced to death because people rather see a child murdered than help their fellow person.  The evil is not just the abortion it also the evil of people not helping people.

I

 see the ignorance of abortion is what causes bias opinions of many. Bush wanted to ban abortion and If this was the case, I would not be alive; neither would my two children who are in the 99th percentile of gifted intelligence in the state of Ohio. My two children who are extremely bright and may be the next leader, or problem solver of the 21st century would have missed a chance at life due to a pregnancy that was killing me and my child. I wanted my baby and so did his or her father. I was literally on the verge of bleeding to death and my child was only in utero for four months. I had a medically necessary abortion to at least save my life. Despite me wrestling with this thought, I would have left behind a younger sister who looks up to me, a mother who loves me, a father who adores me, and countless others who never would have seen my child to remember me by. Bush would have killed me, and that is the truth. Now, I have two other children who have a chance at a great life. The power in their minds have the ability to turn around the future. My death would have prevented this possibility. So now tell me, is abortion for ALL still wrong? By the way, I am also a Christian and I believe my decision was right. If it wasn't, I know God has forgiven me and still blessed me, their father, and our families with two children who are alive here on Earth.

Interesting article on Bush's gag order and the impacts (and costs) to you.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1189/context/archive

obama has been a leader in the murder of innocent children ever since his days 5 yrs ago as a rep for the state of illinois.

perry

wow what wing nut site did you get that from?

No one no where is forcing anyone to get an abortion this is pure lies by the wing nuts

There is a huge debate as to when does life begin, the fanatics would say instantly when the egg is fertilized, others at different points and this will continue to be a discussion, regarding stem cell research yet another control issue, the embryos are not created for research it is rather using embryos for research that can save lives and make better lives for sick people

The issue of abortion should be no ones business except for the mother, father and their families and friends no one should have a right to force any one to get an abortion and no one should have the right to remove this as an option as unbiased wrote above there will continue to be situations that require action to save the life of the mother and it is no ones right to remove those options

you do the typical wing nut thing to say Obama is going to kill babies, where is he forcing anyone to have an abortion? you claim people that are pro-choice are pro death and it is two different animals the reality is most self proclaimed pro lifers are not pro life at all they are pro death penalty because their good book says so, they are simply anti choice however the vast majority of pro choice folks are indeed anti death penalty

the tru evil is all those who would ban abortions and cause the death of the mother

rbach,

I am glad you call Colin Powell a wing nut.  He perhaps was wrong on weapons; however, since he went on site I think he probably knows the truth about the abortion issue. 

Again if it wasn't true why would a staunchly pro-life person recommend to stop funding the UNFPA.

Funny Obama is so immoral his own supporters do not believe his actions.  Simply amazing! Heaven forbid facts get in the way of our refund checks.

By the way you can go to several site and watch the video yourself!

Quote from Colin Powell that crazy wing nut!

Powell in a 2002 letter to Congress. 'UNFPA's support of, and involvement in, China's population-planning activities allows the Chinese government to implement more effectively its program of coercive abortion.'

These activities have since been proven in third world countries.

Yes - a bible believing Christian cannot support abortion. There are many biblical references regarding Christ's love for children, His admonishment to those who would harm them, and many references assuring us that God knows us before we were born, and each day of our life was written in His book. So perhaps the President is not a bible scholar, or perhaps, like so many, he has adjusted his beliefs to fit into a fallen society.

Learn the real statistics regarding reasons abortions are performed.

I tried to find unbiased (either way) web sites, but sometimes it is hard to tell.

WebMD says:

The most common reasons women consider abortion are:

• Birth control (contraceptive) failure. Over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.⁵
• Inability to support or care for a child.
• To end an unwanted pregnancy.
• To prevent the birth of a child with birth defects or severe medical problems. Such defects are often unknown until routine second-trimester tests are done.
• Pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.
• Physical or mental conditions that endanger the woman's health if the pregnancy is continued

The Guttmacher Institute said:

The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.

Reasons Women Choose Abortion (U.S.)

• Wants to postpone childbearing:  25.5%
• Wants no (more) children:  7.9%
• Cannot afford a baby:  21.3%
• Having a child will disrupt education or job: 10.8%
• Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy: 14.1%
• Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy: 12.2%
• Risk to maternal health: 2.8%
• Risk to fetal health: 3.3%
• Other: 2.1%

  Source:Bankole, Akinrinola; Singh, Susheela; Haas, Taylor.  Reasons Why Women Have Induced Abortions: Evidence from 27 Countries.  International Family Planning  Perspectives, 1998, 24(3):117–127 & 152 As reported by:The Alan Guttmacher Institute Online

A true Christian would butt out and not judge - lest ye be judged.  Instead of sitting on your can, get out and volunteer with children of the poor - and get a reality check. 

Some one who thinks abortion is wrong does not have to change their mind, nor do I expect it - nor do I expect anyone to EVER think that I will change my mind.  I never had one, but no way in beep would I be so callous and interfering to play God over some poor soul.  How crass for anyone to try.

Prevent abortion, start a national campaign of family planning and give more money to further education among teens in poverty.

Rbach

I don't know anyone that is pro-life and pro-death penalty.  The largest religion in the world, Catholics, have stated the death penalty should no longer be used. I hear many myths about pro-lifers that just are not true.

I would like to ask you a question.  If a person can kill a child why can they not kill an adult?  When should the adult be killed?  When they have pain from cancer? When they lose their minds with alzheimers? When they get depressed?  Should we leave it open to the individual? What happens when the person loses their mental faculties.  Should we kill them?  How is this different then killing a child.  The evil of euthanisia is already in this world.  A British man in parliment stated a few months ago that anyone with dementia should be put to sleep as they were a drain of the health care system.  The pro-death people are coming and soon it will not just be babies without a voice.  Two laws were already voted on in the US about these issues.  Are you ready to be executed if you get dementia?   

DD,

Your understanding of the Bible is in error.  The passage you speek of refers to not judging; however, it is meant as not to condemn.  We have a right to judge the action of another.  John the Baptist called out Herod. 

DD

"...nor do I expect anyone to EVER think that I will change my mind.  I never had one..."

Might want to re-phrase that DD.

perry

first off you write as if funds will be released to force people to have abortions, this is a lie.

Does this happen in China due to China's zero growth I did not deny, for I do not live in China and do not know, you are attempting to force this lie onto the signing of Obama reversal of bush failed policy, you ignore the facts regarding rise in unwanted pregnancies and aids increases due to bush failed policies. do we know any of the money will actually fund an abortion, no we do not, do we know that any of the money will be used for a forced abortion, yes we know that will not happen.

Funny how you do not know any "pro-lifer" that is pro-death penalty since the majority of "pro-lifers" are indeed pro death penalty

I view this very simply my job is to take care of my business and how I live my life and develop my spiritual connect with my higher power. My job is not to control other peoples lives. What I do personally is my choice and my decision and I will be rewarded or pay the consequences. If the time comes that I am dealing with a medical condition that seriously reduces my quality of life it will be my choice to opt for all possible solutions, not your or anyone else business

there you go DR LARRY

posting unscientific numbers as some sort of proof for your opinion, when the reality of this issue is unless you are having an abortion the reason someone else is having one is none of your nusiness 

Perry, Here is the desired result of today's signing, right out of the article;

"President Obama's actions will help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies, abortions and women dying from high-risk pregnancies because they don't have access to family planning," said Tod Preston, a spokesman for Population Action International, an advocacy group."

There it is, black and white, and pro-lifers twist this into "Obama is a promoting forced abortions". Conservative read the word abortion and lose their ability for all rational thought? No matter what, you are dead set against it. Even when the end result supports your stated goal? Why? You're not stupid...so what is it exactly?

This signing will move further toward preserving the life of unborn children. It supports the very thing you all are posting about.... and somehow "I am wrong?"

This is not twisting the facts. Reducing unwanted pregnancy was Obama's stated goal and he stands by that.

And it's not OK to "murder innocent fetus" but it's perfectly OK to engage in an illegal war and kill thousands of innocent men, women and children. Get OFF it already.

What people need to get off of is saying the war was illegal and blaming Bush entirely for it to begin with. He's at fault, yes, but not the only one.

I fear that the rate people are going with their opinion of this, they will start  calling our soldiers "baby-killers" again.

Mel?
Did I mention Bush in that posting? Even once, Mel? No, I did not. Did you just assume that's what I was thinking? Let's get back on topic, please.

President Obama's actions today will help to reduce unwanted pregnancy and further to reduce abortions. Isn't that the stated goal for right to lifers? YES!

OK, so why is it then, that we see this action turn into postings suggesting Obama supports killing babies, when in fact today's actions will actually preserve life.

Holly Molly ... after reading some of these posts, I've come to the conclusion that there are a few emphatic anti-choice people out there.  I wish I could offer some consolation to your bruised psyche, but mostly I just feel sorry for you.  YOU DISPLAY  A SERIOUS CHARACTER FLAW WHEN YOU WANT TO IMPOSE YOUR BELIEFS ON EVERYONE ELSE.  Get over it!!!! IT'S NON OF YOUR G-- D--- BUSINESS ... PERIOD!!!!!!!!!

There are several reasonable posts here such as: #1.29 by rbach; neighborhood; countrycomfort; JT-456250 and others that are worth reading.

Then there are the anti-Obamaites, the don't-use-my-money folks (unless it's for war) and the religious loonies (see PerryJ #3.7).  I'm sorry, but most of these people have problems.

Just my humble opinion.

JT

Do you always automatically take everything Tod Preston says as fact?  Have you met with Tod to discuss this?  Are you one of those who takes everything Obama says as factual, just, and righteous?

JT,

You can publish all the rhetoric you want.  The funding of the UNFPA will cause forced abortions.  It was proven by the Population Research Institute and investigators for Colin Powell.  I am sure the woman that is forced to have an abortion will get a lot of reassurance from the Obama rhetoric.

Look at the video.  The UNFPA is in the room an acknowledges the forced abortions.

rbach,

Let me understand your point of view.  The UNFPA and Chinese government employees have been proven by the Research Institute and Colin Powell's investigator to be in located in the same building, they are in the same room and are aware of woman being held in prison then forced to have an abortion with money provided by the UNfPA.  Okay with all of this it is only China killing the baby?  The UNFPA paid for it.  The UNFPA knew about it.  The UNFPA's offices are at the same location.  Yet only China is responsible.  Interesting logic.  

I love when people state false stats.  Tell me which stat do you believe is false. I will post a credible source proving it isn't.  I love how people claim people that use facts are making stuff up when they don't post anything of substance.  This site is funny.

Please tell me where you get most pro-lifer are for the death penalty.  Please give me a source.  I can tell you the Catholic Faith does not support it and it is the largest religion in the world.  I am not stating that all Catholics follow this thought; however, it seriously puts in jeopardy your unsupported theory about the majority of Pro-lifers support the death penatly.  Please give  me a source for your speculation.

Here is an excerpt from an article from belief net: In recent years, overall public attitudes on the death penalty have been shifting. According to Gallup polls, nationwide support for the death penalty has fallen--from 80% in 1994 to 66% of Americans in 2000.

Most studies still show a high level of support among conservative Christians. But Samford University law professor Thomas Berg, who has studied the data, says the figures should be looked at in the context of other moral issues. He points out that capital punishment is the only subject on which evangelicals are in line with other Americans.

So it would appear that Christians are not more for the death penalty than other groups.  Interesting.

Concerning Aids do you know how much additional funding was provided in Africa for Aids.  It was the largest investment in fighting this disease by any President. How about this article: This is right in the middle of the Bush presidency and the rate was declining.  Interesting. 

AIDS Growth Slowing Worldwide, U.N. Finds

By Thomas H. Maugh II
May 31, 2006 in print edition A-20

The rapid growth in global AIDS cases that characterized the first quarter-century of the epidemic is slowing as some regions of the world are showing evidence of bringing the disease under control, according to a UNAIDS report issued Tuesday.

“The epidemic seems to be slowing down,” said Dr. Paul De Lay, director of evaluation for UNAIDS, also known as the Joint United Nations Program on HIV/AIDS. “The incidence is increasing, but not at the past rate.”

De Lay said the ongoing gains resulted from “a massive scale-up of prevention and treatment.”

The problem with this site is so few people really looked at facts.  They live by their bigoted standards.  You bigotry against religious people is no different than bigotry against African Americans.  Please research it appears your facts are a bit askewed.

George,

Wow, I am a religous looney.  I love it when people that do not post facts or read  state I am a looney.  People state stupid stuff like we do not know when a baby becomes a life and you state the person has a good post.  What non-sense.  Science has proven this. I am amazed by people that called religious people as being unscientific ignore all science when it comes to abortion.  Those pesky facts are such a problem.  Dang those scientist.  Oh well lets just ignore them. 

I am sorry George you show the serious character flaw of not being able to intelligently respond to the most basic of facts.  Resorting to name calling.  Is it to hard for Georgie to read and know what he is talking about.  Oh poor dear.  This is just about the direction of the country.  No need for you to read something.  It is easier to watch Rachel Maddow I guess. 

George anytime you want to become part of the Democracy that so many of our people fought and died for tell me.  We can have an intelligent discussion.  By the way if you need help I will even tell you which books support your opinions.  I hate to pick on defenseless people. I hope to blog with you tommorrow.  I would love to see you have a real thought based upon a fact. 

rbach said:

there you go DR LARRY

posting unscientific numbers as some sort of proof for your opinion, when the reality of this issue is unless you are having an abortion the reason someone else is having one is none of your nusiness

Don't like facts, do you?  They kind of get in your way, don't they?

If you do the tiniest bit of homework, you will find those numbers are true, based on scientific polling.  Of course, that would require at least a tiny bit of brainpower.

Those facts are posted because so many posters think they know the reason for abortions, and they are usually wildly wrong, because they don't know the facts.

Of course, once presented with the facts, only morons continue to argue differently.

Killing is everyone's business.

yes larry

I did check and at best your sources are very biased based in religion rather than statistical polling science funny thing with stats one can generally twist them enough to prove any point of view

The reality is unless the abortion is within your family then it becomes none of your business regardless of any reasons you have there is the health of the mother not to mention rape and incest that folks like you choose to ignore and come in with a tunnel vision regarding the fetus nothing more than religious bias being foisted on to all in the name of something else

perry

here if you can follow a little logic based on your post 3.30

80 % + of americans claim to be christian thereby leading to the majority of the death penalty supporters must be christian which leads to the vast majority of anti-choice people are christian thereby proving my claim the majority of anti-choice people are pro death penalty what do you not understand?

Regarding the aids funding in africa under your hero bush, the money was increased yes unfortunately the funding was not given to agencies that had a complete program that worked it was all funneled to programs of abstinence only which has been a total failure leading to the rise in new aids cases in africa... this is fact not right wing propaganda

Great point

You already have gotten the bill! This is taxpayer money (i.e., your money).

Maybe our new Secretary of the Treasury can refund your money..........

Would you people rather see a child starve to death in a poor country, or be abused by a father who was happy to screw the wife/girl friend but then blames her for getting pregnant? It happens in a lot of these poor nations, where woman are treated as property.  Whatever, we all have our opinions.  I just see the logic of supporting family planning all over the world.

so, your answer to my "would you rather see a child starve" would be "Yes"???  

you people are all the same.  Fight for the fetus, fight for the stem cell...to hell with the living, breathing person (even if it means using MY tax dollars to bomb them)

"You can do what you want, just don't send a bill to me."

You could say that about anything though, If I think people should be able to use drugs then I shouldn't have to pay taxes that go to law enforcement, If I think it's ok to beat my child my money shouldn't go towards social services. The fact is that abortion is legal and our taxes go to pay for programs. If you don't like it try to reverse the law. we'll send all the starving children to your house. There are already millions of starving children dying around the world every year and you want to worry about ones that never lived at all. Besides what better gift to give someone than to go straight to heaven, funny how christians believe in such a wonderful place but it's wrong and evil to send them there. It's like getting mad that someone bought you a ticket to Hawaii.

Then I want all the tax money I have paid to public schools back too, cause I have no kids!

If I wanted my tax dollars being spent in some other country, I would MOVE there.

We are already no better than peasants more than 1/4 of the year (working only to pay our tax burden, much as serfs did hundreds of years ago for noble lords).  What gives any of you the right to demand more and more of my - or anyone else's - money to finance ANY thing in another country?  How about voluntary donations and perhaps using tax dollars to solicit those, instead of STEALING my money and then making me feel guilty for desiring to KEEP what I earn like a FREE human being.

The world has problems.  There is no doubt about that, but America can not solve them all.  We have enough problems here to deal with, spend the money HERE, if you have to spend it at all.

I am not selfish for wishing to keep the fruits of my labor, you are selfish if you wish to take it from me and spend it however you want under threat of punishment.  Get rid of the income tax which allows this very sort of thing to happen.  There are other tax models that can be adopted.  Yes, the government would probably have to be smaller, but that is a good thing.  You can't justify endangering my livelihood to save someone neither of us knows.  That may be noble in intent, but it is criminal and destructive to the country in practice.  Look at California and its large budget deficit from all of ITS spending.  Or Michigan. 

My money is not yours, I don't care how many times you say it is.  

Barbara said:

so, your answer to my "would you rather see a child starve" would be "Yes"???  

you people are all the same.  Fight for the fetus, fight for the stem cell...to hell with the living, breathing person (even if it means using MY tax dollars to bomb them)

Can we save everyone?  If your answer is no, then I guess you would rather see a child starve to death.  Go volunteer and DO something about it.  On your own time, using your own money.
Of course, you would prefer to sit back and blame someone else.

Barbara,

From reading your posts it's obvious that you believe that it's better to murder a baby than to have it suffer.  All people in this world suffer.  So by your logic all should be aborted.  I work with the poor and struggling.  I have found more beauty and righteousness in them than in all of the rich people in the world combined.  I contend that abortion is the wealthy imposing their will on the poor.  Does Obama wish that he had been aborted?  Of course not.  So why does he look at this a a good solution to pregnancy?  America won't be looked at as good for spreading abortions worldwide. 

Barbara, to use your words, its none of your business what goes on in another country. 

Seems this logic only flows one way.  Those that oppose behavior you support should stay the hell out of it because its not any of their business, but doesn't hold true when you insert your nose into someone elses' problem. 

Have you ever looked at some of the reasons women are depressed during menopause?  Studies done have strong correlation to guilt over having aborted "life" when they can no longer reproduce.

I like many others on this board do not wish my money to fund abortions in this country or in any foreign country. 

Barbara

You don't want them to starve, so your answer is to kill them before they get hungry?

For all those that want a baby and do not want an abortion:

Then have a baby and don't have an abortion.

To all those who do not want a baby, you should not be forced into having one by ideology, just have one if you feel like, if you do not feel that way you should not have one, children should be wanted not unwanted.

MIf you don't want one, put a raincoat on, use birth control, or just don't do the "dirty".

Contraceptives fail.  Women are raped.  What about them, do they get to have abortions?  Do they get to choose what happens within their own bodies, since they are the source giving a fetus life?

jehumphreys

good for you then you should not have an abortion

as far as anyone else that would be none of your business

I guess Obama thinks this will be another way to raise our "standing" in the eyes of the rest of the world. Forget what the american taxpayer thinks about funding other countries abortions. 

amf1211

I guess Obama thinks this will be another way to raise our "standing" in the eyes of the rest of the world. Forget what the american taxpayer thinks about funding other countries abortions.

I agree - whether pro-life or pro-choice, common sense should go "Hey, wait a minute - we're bashing former President Bush for wasting money on a senseless war. Why are we allowing President Obama to use our hard earned money to send overseas so a woman can have an abortion?"

As I've heard many say with other issues - let's put the money to use to help our OWN nation. Sometimes I think we're generous to a fault.

We are the most generous-TAKING my money to pay for things I am so against. BTW all you bleeding heart libs, who are the most giving people (charity, time,etc)? CONSERVATIVES!!!!

You are so willing to spend my money for me. No thanks.

Watch an episode of extreme makeover home addition. Tell me in the sea of people helping what do you see?

I am, once again, speechless. Our hard earned money to pay for abortions overseas. Why not for birth control, if anything.

Our funding will go for counseling concerning options for procreation.  Under Bush, the only options that were allowed to be discussed were having kids.

Now, birth control, abortion, adoption, and all options will be discussed.

Of course, the folks who oppose funding also oppose using US dollars to feed all of the millions of new mouths that result from the gag order.  What wonderful, charitable Christians!

Not discussed, performed. We are now funding the PERFORMANCE of abortions.

Of course, the folks who oppose funding also oppose using US dollars to feed all of the millions of new mouths that result from the gag order.  What wonderful, charitable Christians!

So Tom, what you're saying is that because we don't fund abortions, we have forced people in developing nations to procreate at a faster rate than they already were? And I don't believe anyone has mentioned NOT providing relief in the form of medical treatment, education, food, etc.

In fact, there are many wonderful Christian non-profit organizations (funded by private donations, not tax dollars) who provide services in poor areas around the world, some of which I have supported financially.

To Patriot Tom, concerning your comment,

"Of course, the folks who oppose funding also oppose using US dollars to feed all of the millions of new mouths that result from the gag order.  What wonderful, charitable Christians!"

Let me assure you, the folks who oppose using US taxdollars to fund abortions in other countries are not opposing the responsible, well determined designation of foreign aid to assist the poor in the world.  Health programs, including education in family planning and birth control, adoption assistance, etc., is not the issue...which you are attempting to cloud.  The issue is funding the termination of life.  In addition, that funding is given without any American jurisdiction over the laws of the recipient country, concerning the legal guidelines for performing an abortion.  Should we send tax dollars to fund another country's weapons system, without having any jurisdiction over how they utilize those weapons...and possibly in ways that would be contrary to our laws and moral conscience, to harm innocent life?

rightron

so where do you get this info??? you claim it is fact that conservative give more, very interesting opinion but not fact

read the article does it say any more money is being spent? No, the funds have already been budgeted and they were being withheld from agencies that even spoke about contraception or abortion, you know the bush failed program of abstinence only which has failed miserably, see palins family for proof that doesn't work

So with Obam changing the rule it means rather than the funds go to failed programs they will now go to programs that actually work to reduce unwanted pregnancies and aids

They are not funding abortions in foreign country's You should read first the comment.

It boils down to something very simple. Foreign aid agencies are now not permitted to receive US aid if their aid packages include assistance to people who have abortions. Simply put we can still stipulate how the aid is used and as long as they swear it will not be used for abortions they can now get said aid if they need it. Plain and simple we want to tell other country's how to run their aid programs by putting this stupid stipulation on any aid that is given. This just takes that imposition off of them and if they need food for disaster relief or anythng else they can get it as long as it is not used in an abortion program. Geez people read read read. This is a place to get smarter not dumber.

Actually, it was brought out during the campaign what charitable contributions the candidates had filed on their taxes. Mr. Obama had an extremely low amount of charitable contributions. My boss made the comment that he donated more than Mr. Obama and he didn't even make as much as him.

They are not funding abortions in foreign country's You should read first the comment.

Here is the first line of the article:

"President Barack Obama plans to sign an executive order ending the ban on federal funds for international groups that promote or perform abortions"

In other words, he wants to be able to give federal funds (read: taxpayer money) groups that promote or perform abortions. Pretty clear to me.

rightron-739266

We are the most generous-TAKING my money to pay for things I am so against. BTW all you bleeding heart libs, who are the most giving people (charity, time,etc)? CONSERVATIVES!!!!

You are so willing to spend my money for me. No thanks.

Watch an episode of extreme makeover home addition. Tell me in the sea of people helping what do you see?

I agree there about being generous taking money to pay for things that a majority does not support, such as this. (BTW, I agree that more conservatives give than liberals, but I have to agree with others that is more of an opinion than statement of fact).

I'm not against family planning or teaching birth control, but am against paying for abortions, and doubly so with my tax dollars.

BTW, because I'm sick of reading people bashing abstinence, I'm someone who was taught both abstinence and birth control. Yes, abstinence only teaching does not work, but on the same token you're increasing the risk of teens getting STDs and possible pregnancies just teaching birth control only. The ONLY 100 percent surefire way to not have a kid is to cross your legs and not do it. Simple biology 101.

he is doing this because he believes in ABORTION up and including into the 9th month as does his wife..

va-mother

what great scientific proof you bring... because your boss 1 conservative gave more to charity than obama 1 lineral this proves conservatives give more than liberals????????

No wonder you people have so many non facts in your arsenal

She's talking about the study that just came out not long ago that found republicans give far more to charities than democrats. I'm guessing she assumed you already were aware of the study. If not, you can look it up on the internet.

kfoote

here is the entire post from va-mother

Actually, it was brought out during the campaign what charitable contributions the candidates had filed on their taxes. Mr. Obama had an extremely low amount of charitable contributions. My boss made the comment that he donated more than Mr. Obama and he didn't even make as much as him.

hmmm let's see, she has zero reference to any study, there seems to be no mention of any assumption regarding any additional info then what she actually wrote which equals her boss (I assume a conservative) donated more the President Obama and her boss made less money than President Obama... .I guess I am not up with wing nut twisting interpretation of the actual written word.... besides I do not put any credence in a biased study of any sort, thank you for playing though

since the conservatives think it is bad to be a community organizer I am sure they didn't actually count the hours of time donated by liberals who are the biggest contributors of their time... the conservatives have more of the wealth or blood money they think by throwing a small percent of it around will buy them a spot in heaven... give me the folks that donate their time any day

It is really none of our business to provide tax-funded "services" to foreign countries.

If some group wants "to provide services",  they need to find private funding.

This isn't about whether you like International Family Planning or not, this is about what is a wise use of tax dollars. With all of the financial messes around the country, this is not a wise use of tax dollars. 

I guess it's better than women seeking abortions from unlicensed medical "professionals" or performing them at home.

That's for their country's leaders to figure out and fun, not ours.

Yes Matt that is what everyone is talking about.  How in gods name does us funding international abortions and the ability to talk about abortions help us balance our budget?  How does this help make our country safer?  How does us spending this money on this program around the world benefit us?

I don't recall the world hating the US for this particular policy of us not funding international abortions or the ability to talk about abortions.

Again if you read this we are not funding abortions. We now are denying aid to aid agencies who may also through other means assist people in their country who have the need to seek and abortion. Big difference. This permits the US to send aid  to these agencies that has nothing to do with abortion. Food for starving people disaster relief etc. give it a rest.

"That's for their country's leaders to figure out and fun, not ours." Then why we do have the right to tell Iraq how to run their country? Shouldn't we get out of there and let their leaders figure that out?

As a Christian, I was taught the life begins at conception. (We celebrate the conception of the Virgin Mary in our church).    So anything after conception is MURDER !    

It's not only "as a Christian"  .  .  .  any serious scientist will agree that life begins at conception.  There is no other event following the fertilization of the egg that can define when life begins.  This is a no brainer that pro-abortion advocates try to confuse, but there is no logical arguement to think otherwise.

As I keep trying to explain: Murder is a legal term. Abortion in this country is legal, therefore abortion can NOT be murder. Call it killing if you want, but stop using hyperbole to try to back up your point.

As far as using the term "pro-abortion," yet more semantic hyperbole. The term is not "pro-abortion" it is "pro-CHOICE." No pro-choice person I know believes they are "pro abortion." To use that phrase is a direct insult to those of us who believe we should have reproductive rights.

The money is already allocated. It will be spent, no matter what we think about abortion. The article is about WHO gets the money. And denying funding for organizations simply because they MENTION abortion or birth control is wrong. These women deserve to have every option available to them, as do all women. If abortions are legal in those countries, what's the problem? It's supposed to be about what is best for their health and lives, and money should not be denied to a worthy organization just because they choose to give information about family planning and abortion.

Just because someone says it is "legal", the baby dies.  That is killing.  Do you prefer those semantics?

They are baby-killers, not "murderers".

(of course, dictionary.com says one definition of murder is "to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously."  Sounds about right to me.)

Let's get those other terms straight, too.  I am pro-CHOICE - the woman has a choice to procreate or not.  After that, it is not a choice.  It is pro-abortion.

In the Muslim religion they preach that all non believers are the devil so since a religion preaches that fact should we consider ourselves as devils. The same thing applies in the case of conception. The state consider a fetus as a being when it can exist on its own outside of the womb. The churches (some) consider it as a being at the moment of conception.The fact remains here you can practice that in your church if you like but the law on the books is the law. Secular law is for all the people and not just for Christians or Jews or atheists but all the people. Laws are made to keep control so we do not infringe on the rights of others. Women have the right to choose what they want to do with thier bodies and I approve of that. I have no right to infringe on her making whatever decision she is deemed to make and neither does any one else.

  I am not a pro abortionist. I am a person that sees this problem for what it is and that is people who think religion should control our society. I am as much against abortion in unnecessary case as any of you but I also believe that it is not for me to tell any body what to do with their own life. If a woman came to me seeking advice I would not tell her what to do one way or another. I would show her the upside and the down side. I would give her information on how to get assistance in each direction and leave the choice to her because she and she alone is the person that has to make it.

    One of these days the anti people will realize they are being led around by the nose over this factor. Unscrupulous ministers and politicians keep this in the front for their own purposes. Some for money and some for political gain. I believe some ministers never want the government to ever pass a law outlawing abortion because it is a cash cow for them. That applys topoliticians also. You had 6 straight years where every house of government was in the hands of your party and no meaningful bills were intriduced that would have banned the procedure. Wake up. Take your efforts where they belong. Help educate our young and have jobs and meaningful lives for them to deal with and the problem will go away. Marching with picket signs and dolls with red paint on them does you no good. Helping one young girl survive a time in her life when she is in need will go farther than all your marches do.

Hey Paul & OLV

Think there's any chance the Immaculate Conception story you learned in church might be an oxymoron. Exactly when was the Virgin Mary's egg fertilized ?

Naw, don't bother to explain it to me. Not interested.

George  -  I won't try to explain it to you, per your request, but I want to at least point you in the right direction so that you won't make a fool out of yourself again.  Mary IS the Immaculate Conception.  The term does NOT refer to Jesus' conception in her womb by the Holy Spirit.  It refers to her being conceived without sin so that she could carry the Son of God.  You can learn more at many Catholic websites such as the informative one that Catholic Answers (catholic.com) puts out.

My conscience was violated because I don't believe in un-necessary wars or torture.

Several years ago I was watching television around 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning.  There was a program that made statements and showed proof that Planned Parenthood actually sells the baby parts that are the result of an abortion to medical students.  One of the lists showed a arm going for something like $750.00.  A brain was more much expensive.  The reasoning behind selling the baby parts was that having an actual human part to study and examine was more beneficial to the medical students than any other course of action.

I was horrified at the thought of selling baby body parts.  However, a few years earlier I had read a story about blood banks in New York City segregating the different parts of the blood and selling it for millions of $$ to foreign countries.  The blood banks were always claiming that they were short of blood and people would go down and give more blood.  It was a huge profitable enterprise for the blood banks.  They did not mention the Red Cross as being part of this group, but the idea soured me on giving blood.  I also changed my driver's license and am no longer an organ donor because of the "corruption" associated with these organizations.

Would pro-abortion enthusiasts be so enthusiastic if they knew what happens to the aborted baby's remains?  Why isn't someone screaming and forcing transparency in this part of the dirty little secret of abortions?  I assume it must be true because Planned Parenthood would have cause to file suit against the producers of that segment.

Wanda it does'nt matter what the horrors of abortion are, it's not going to change their minds. The reality is that if a person believes abortion is an "alternative"or a matter of "choice" or a womans "health issue" or "family planning" then they have already decided that abortion is not taking a life. I find it interesting that a lot of pro-abortionist only consider it a life when they can justify the abortion by protecting it from potential harm,abuse or poverty if it's born. Essentially they are killing the baby to protect it's life. This kind of logic is so twisted that anyone that thinks in these terms can not possibly be reasoned with.......................

If you understand the history of Planned Parenthood, its founder Margaret Sanger, andthe eugenics movement, there is no doubt that it will focus on black populations, just as they have in the U.S. where a baby conceived here is now more likely to die from abortion that be born.  This is the dirty little secret of the pro-abortion movement.

OLV: proof? sources? Otherwise what you're saying is pure opinion and supposition disguised as fact.

You may not like Planned Parenthood, but they have done an enormous amount of good in this country providing family planning and care to millions of women who can't afford to go to an OBGYN. Sanger was absolutely wrong when it comes to eugenics, but her organization has done a lot of good in the world. Just because the founder was wrong in one part of her philosophy (a philosophy born in the 1930's I might add -- not like it was yesterday) doesn't mean we should condemn the entire organization.

And the term is not "pro-abortion," it is pro-CHOICE. I've neven known anyone who claimed to be "pro-abortion."

Try these sources:

To better understand Roe v Wade, check out what Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of NARAL, and Norma McCorvey, the "Jane Roe" of Roe v Wade have to say:

The baby is no less dead whatever one chooses to call it Michelle, that's the real issue. I wonder how many people that have had an abortion or how many doctors that have performed an abortion checked with the baby to see what it's "choice" was ??

Michelle...

It is pro-abortion... you want there to be the right for a woman to choose an abortion. This means you are for the rights of abortion... pro-abortion. Of course no one calls themselves that. How barbaric would that be??? You just want to clean it up and make it sound like you are pro-something good like pro-choice. It is the same thing you just want to hide behind semantics. So tell me pro-choice... what rights is that unborn child choosing? You're pro-choice... so you must mean the baby has a choice, right? How many of them chose to be aborted? Pro-choice... whatever... your anti-14th amendment rights for the baby.

Michelle  -  I'm not sure what happened to my website references above.  Could it be that since this is an MSNBC-related site, they feel obligated to censor any references to the truth?  Anyway, if you search for Margaret Sanger, you will see a site for blackgenocide dot org that gives her story.  There's also a list of her quotes on dianedew dot com.

If you search for Bernard Nathanson, you will find his story, and Norma McCorvey's website can be found by searching for "roe no more"

I hope this gets through and that it helps you realize the truth!

Bob, Va what an idiot!!!!!!!!!

He didn't mention it in the inaugaration but he definitely pointed out where he stood on this issue before he was elected. If people had researched their beloved candidate instead of falling in love with his skin color they wouldn't be so surprised. He wasn't voted the most liberal senator in the senate for nothing. This is just the beginning of how he will change our country.

You are so corrct. I will jump on Peta's bandwagon when the last unborn child is slaughtered.

To reflect on what you've said Mike...you've pointed out that we love to use the word "fetus" rather than "baby." I always found that interesting myself. When a baby is wanted, it's referred to as a baby, but when it's not a wanted pregnancy, it's referred to as a "fetus." It's almost as if that helps the general public detach themselves from what it actually is...a child. So, with that in mind, I researched the word "fetus" long ago to find out what it actually meant. Interestingly enough, the word "fetus" comes from the Latin, meaning "offspring." So in trying to detach the public, they've used the word for offspring from another language.

Bowen: "I have found a name for you. You see that contellation, it's called Draco. It means Dragon."

Drago: "So, intead of calling me Dragon in your tongue, you call me Dragon in another."

Dragonheart, 1996

Psolaris -

You are right.  That is why they like the word "choice" instead of abortion and the word abortion instead of killing.

Just wait - they will come for the infirm, the old, the sick, the poor, the conservative, .....

And it will all be semantics.

What would have happened if Obama's 17 year old mom had decided on abortion after she got knocked up by the 25 year old guy down the street? Has he even thought about that?

I'll get a little corny here, but we may be aborting the lives of babies who could have someday been president of the US.

Abortion stops a beating heart, and the babies whose hearts are beating should have just as many rights as any of us. Instead, obama wants to make sure Terrorist detainees are given every right they can get, while ignoring the unborn babies. What a man!!!

 , very good point.

Our society is in terrible dissarray. Who was aborted, that could have made a great impact on our society in a positive way?

It is impossible to know the impact that the loss of 50 million lives over the past 36 years has had on our society.  Undoubtedly some of those would have contributed great things.  Someone once asked Mother Teresa why God hasn't sent someone to cure AIDS.  Her prayerful response was that He had, but we aborted him!

You talk about the great people that would not be here if they had been abourted. So if you look at the other side of the coin, doesn't this also mean that a child that is not aborted could also become another Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Hitler, etc. Right?

You can't make this argument and then only look at the possible good side. Otherwise you are a hypocrite.

All children that are not aborted do not grow up to be great people. That depends on their upbringing so technically if you force a woman to have a child that she does not want, and she hates that child, doesn't the risk of abuse rise? And if the child is abused by the parent, which developes a psychological disorders within that child and later on that child decides to take their anger out on their classmates by shooting them with a gun, that a great thing because "hey! We saved a baby!

I have three wonderful kids and I myself would have never allowed my wife to have an abortion, however this decision needs to be made by the person carrying the child. Not someone who wants to imposed their own religious beliefs and force everyone to believe as they do. If I commit a sin, I ALONE have to answer to God. I don't remember anything in the Bible about a cheering section of Christians in the background as God goes over the things I did in my life. This is between me and God. This is not between me and the opinions of a group of Christians. Judge not least ye be judged.

If you permit murder, you are a murderer.  Talk about that with God.

Citizenpain,

I agree that it is your decision, and what you decide is between you and God. However, what is at issue is the government stealing money from people to pay for something they do not support (isn't this also an issue with the Iraq war?).

I also have three wonderful kids--all grown now and out on there own. I have no first-hand experience with abortion. I do know five women, friends of mine, who have had abortions. Each one of these women have told me in private that they regretted having an abortion; that there isn't a day that goes by that they don't think "what if?" What if they had kept the baby? What would that child have become? All five of them said they would, if they could go back and make the decision again, opt for keeping their babies. All of them said they were inadequately counseled. One of them changed her mind while on the operating table; unable to speak or move due to the drugs they had given her, she couldn't stop the procedure.

No one can really speak for the unborn--to address whether these humans would have chosen life over death, even knowing that life would be hard and full of suffering; their voices are forever silenced. Perhaps more women like my friends, who have had abortions and regretted their decision to do so, should speak out on this issue as they still have a voice.

Woman who have had an abortion are speaking out:   

To citizenpain  -  I never meant to imply that ALL the missing people (victims of abortion) would be valuable members of society.  I'm simply stating the fact that some of them undoubtedly would have been, and who knows what value we have been robbed of as a result.  If the person who would have developed the cure for cancer, or whatever great act, was allowed to have a right to life, it makes the prospect of snuffing out all these lives frightening.

Woman who have had an abortion are speaking out

There was a reference above to the Silent no More website, but for whatever reason, these get censored out.  Search for the above and you'll read what these women who have experience abortion have to say.

Randy? Again, this is NOT new funding. It is only lifting the gag order placed on Family Planning Agencies by the Bush administration to apease his constituency. There are tons of articles on the web both pro and con. You might want to read a few of them to get some perspective.

It amazes me how all of a sudden this means the money will be used for abortions. It may or may not. We are talking here about funding for clinics that may be trying to offer a very wide range of services.  Some of these facilities are in the poorest parts of the world. Abortions aren't neccessarily going to be performed in them, but to deny the  benefits they may bring to their locale just because they mention one option(that happens to be legal in the US) is ridiculous. To assume that every female who hears abort abortion will just toss off social and cultural traditions that go back farther than ours, just at the mention of a word is not giving these people very much credit.

I Have One thing to say about the poor nations of the world, they have always been poor will always be poor will never breakthe ycle of being poor,, Why is it we the US must pay for everything? Most of these countries are muslim countries yet do you see one muslim nation giving them money? Screw them.

JT I DONT CARE IF IT IS OLD FUNDING.. It is taxpayer money going to support the killing of children.. It need not be spent.

Joe: Actually, a lot of that money goes to Africa and South and Central America, not "Muslims." I'd wager that MOST of the money goes to Africa.

This money will be spent no matter what we think about the abortion issue. It does matter where the money goes. And to deny funds solely based on the MENTION of abortion or birth control is wrong. In this day, why is censorship so beloved by so many when it comes to information about abortion? It imposes an increased risk to those women who do not have ALL the information they need to make an informed choice. In this country we take for granted the ability of most of us to get a second opinion or go to another doctor. Most of the women (and children) these funds go to help have NO choices in anything. This includes, in many cases, the choice of whether or not to have the sex that got them pregnant in the first case.

Michele said:

Most of the women (and children) these funds go to help have NO choices in anything. This includes, in many cases, the choice of whether or not to have the sex that got them pregnant in the first case.

Show me a citation to back that up.  That certainly is not true in the US (look around in this vine - I posted the stats), and I bet you 1000 to 1 it is not true in any country.

Just type in African conflicts and read the stories of how rape and mutilation are used as tools of war against woman.  Now reason out that if a woman was gang raped by soldiers (rebel or otherwise) and ended up pregnant and suicidal she could not be treated in any clinic receiving US funding if she wanted an abortion.  Even if US money was never spent on the actual abortions the clinic would lose all US funding if it did the abortion.  Given this set of events woman had no real choices.  I am not for US funding being used to pay for abortions but US funding should not be withheld from a clinic because a doctor had to make a decision to save a women's life from suicide.  Now extend that on to US funds being used for counselling services to give the woman mental heath treatment before the abortion takes place and maybe we can save two lives.  But from what I keep reading on this thread that does not appear to be acceptable.  No one seems to recognize that the grey areas (neither pro-life or pro-choice) abound around this world.

Sending taxpayer money overseas for this purpose - "to support those organizations that support or perform abortion"...so how much of the taxpayers dollars are going to go to "administrative" costs and may never even benefit the woman looking for her baby to be aborted???  And for the record I do not support abortion but if it is a reality of the insane world in which we live, why spend it overseas????  Cannot that money be put to use here n the good ole USA?  BO is 0 for 2 (gitmo and now this).  

Now extend that on to US funds being used for counselling services to give the woman mental heath treatment before the abortion takes place and maybe we can save two lives.

What do you know about the counselling services provided to women in our country? Are they adequate? There seems to be some debate on this issue world-wide, especially when those who provide abortions also provide the counselling. If we cannot achieve responsible and accountable counselling services here, what makes you think we can achieve this goal in another country? Furthermore, from my experience, poor people are not provided with adequate anything, here, and most especially elsewhere. This is just more wasted money at a time when we cannot afford to be wasteful.

What do you know about the counselling services provided to women in our country? Are they adequate?

For my spouse and I, yes they were adequate.  When we had to make the decision of how to end an ectopic pregnancy (for the fourth time) we requested to speak to someone concerning family planning, abortion, and pregnancy counselling. 

There seems to be some debate on this issue world-wide, especially when those who provide abortions also provide the counselling. If we cannot achieve responsible and accountable counselling services here, what makes you think we can achieve this goal in another country? Furthermore, from my experience, poor people are not provided with adequate anything, here, and most especially elsewhere.

The poor aways do seem to get the dregs of the other classes.  But why not give them what we can.  If you are saying that we must give them the best or not give them anything at all then no poor any where on earth will ever have any hope of ever rising above the poverty they live in.

This is just more wasted money at a time when we cannot afford to be wasteful.

Actually the money is already spent.  All that has been done is to lift the restriction on what words can be used in the clinical settings. 

Countrycomfort, I appreicate your knowledge and ability to communicate well. I agree with you completely. Well said.

It's all part of "change we can believe in." Yes, he is making changes, and yes I believe it, it's a stupid change.