"Stimulus bills have taste of pork".

Are you kidding? This is a Luau for the special interest groups that supported the Democrats. All that's missing are the free 1st Class plane tickets to Hawaii. Of course, Pelosi doesn't need one since taxpayers supply her with her own private jet.

Let's face it. The liberal left wing Democrats are planning on passing another $900 billion stimulous bill, and unfortunately the stimulous is only to those special interest groups, most if not all pork, rewards for their support. Most of your congressmen and women haven't even read the bill, much less know what is in it, but are simply voting non bi-partisan. Many voted for "Change' but you'll be lucky if that is all you have left in your pockets, is pocket change.

Who do you think is going to pay the cost of the first stimulous bill, let alone the second? You, that's who, and your children and grandchildren, if they can afford it. Meanwhile we will still be outsourcing our jobs to foreign countries, foreign workers, and rewarding CEO's and fat cat banks and mortgage brokers with Spas, retreats, bonuses, when we should have simply stood back, let free enterprise take its course, and watch them fold. Then those incompetent CEO's would be out of work and on the unemployment line like everyone else who has lost their jobs. Can we NOT see that YES something has changed but NO nothing has changed. Peloski and Reid apparently plan on raping the rest of America and giving it to the poor, other countries poor? But they also want illegals to vote...??? Hey, I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican but even a dog with a poor sniffer can smell a skunk before it arrives? It doesn't need to be a bloodhound...your cocker could smell this one coming? It's why many Democrats are now also saying whoa.....

If you aren't writing and calling your congressmen and congresswomen to oppose all this pork, and demanding they read the bill before voting on it, look for the quarter in your pocket...it turned into a nickle while you waited.

I don't think I would have a problem with the Filipino compensation package. They were promised this by our government and then had it rescinded in 1946. This should have been rectified by a president long before Obama. I wonder how our government justified backpedaling in 1946 what they had promised to these Filipinos. Personally I don't classify this as "pork" but rather making right something that should have been done long ago. What's the deal......these people didn't matter because they were Filipinos? They were good enough to sign on to fight in a war, they should have been important enough to be given what they were promised in compensation long before 2009 for crying out loud.

It's 647 pages long. No one in Washington has the balls to make this right. All of them have Special Interest friends lobbying along side them. Obama preached to us about getting rid of the lobbyist. Yeah Right. His administration is full of them. Just another LIE to the American people. He didn't clean the house, he just collected some of the dirt that was underneath the carpet and found jobs for them.

These pigs that they are trying to pass wouldn't stimulate anything. Even with a vibrator attached.

Oh, I get it!!!! It's now called "EARMARKS" instead of "PORK". How stupid do these pea-brains on Capitol Hill think the American public is? As the old saying goes: You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s#$t!!!! Scrap the entire bill and start over. The president said "NO PORK". PERIOD. This means democrats AND republicans.

No wonder the Democrats aren't worried about raising taxes. The last two he wanted to appoint to office, apparently didn't bother to pay them. Do as I say, not as I do?

Just remember he did not smoke in the white house? A three pack a day man?
I'm not a smoker but I'm also not stupid enough to believe he isn't smoking, just do it out on the balcony. Even so, smoking really doesn't set a good example for our children, especially since we all know the health risks.

Of course nobody has addressed the food supply being delivered to your grocery store. If you don't read the labels, you're going to be ingesting "corn syrup" instead of healthy juices, tea, or cranberrie juice. Just what is hydrogenated flour, as apposed to whole grain flour? A bug cannot survive in white flour. What should that tell you? Your grocery isles are full of food with marginal nutritional value, and now they want to sell alcohol too? They are already selling gasoline. The drug store is gone. Are the prescriptions being imported from ~~ina too? Can they get melomine in them as well, so they sell for more. Toys, pet food, and now baby formula. If you buy American, Americans work, and it is that simple.

Light up Mr President. Don't be a hypocrite...just light up. I think its probably more risky than a cigar because most people who smoke those don't inhale...

Jenny,

The only problem i have with the Filipino portion of this bill is how is this going to create any jobs....

I was in the Army 1966-1968 the only compensation i received was $142.00 a month...What about the thousands who lost their lives in WW2 or were maimed? I lost 2 uncles in Italy...Shouldn't they be compensated?

If it don't create jobs it shouldn't be in this bill plain and simple...

The fact is that no one voting on this package has read and analyzed each and ever number on all 1400 pages.

Not even Obama. How could anyone validate every number?

And that is scary.

Jenny-35446: I don't have a problem with the Filipino compensation package either. However, you're missing the point of this bill. It's supposed to be a "stimulus" package. Everything that does not fall under the definition of fairly immediate stimulation to the US economy, should be removed. End of story. There are hundreds, ney, thousands of worthy causes out there, but they don't belong in this stimulus package.

The Presidents stimulus package contains many projects probably identified during the summit held in December 2008 with the States Governors/Mayors with the then President-Elect Obama. Transportation, health care, payments to States for child care and development, department of education, community planning and development, chilldren and families services, and funding to bring down the States deficits comes to mind. Then we have the pork/earmarks inputs from our elected representatives in the House and Senate which always happens. There are too many fingers "in the pie".

It is no wonder there is so much political posturing going on in the chambers, behind closed doors, at cocktail parties, Super bowl get togethers, and the like.

I have read and re-read the economic stimulus package and have yet to see how this package will create permanent jobs.

Whatever happens with this package, our leglislatures need to do something DRAMATIC to stimulate the economy.

NANCY PELOSI

This woman is a nut case. She should not only be impeached, but stripped of her US citizenship. She is about as un-American as they come. People like her in our government is the reason our country is in the shape it's in. Wake up people!!!

Windfall Tax on Retirement Income

Adding a tax to your retirement is simply another way of saying to the American people, "You're so darn stupid that we're going to keep doing this until we drain every cent from you." That's what the Speaker of the House is saying. Read below...............

Nancy Pelosi wants a Windfall Tax on Retirement Income. In other words, tax what you have made by investing toward your retirement. This woman is a nut case! You aren't going to believe this.

Madam speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to put a Windfall Tax on all stock market profits (including Retirement fund, 401K and Mutual Funds!) Alas, it is true - all to help the 12 Million ILLEGAL Immigrants and other unemployed Minorities!

This woman is frightening.

She quotes..."We need to work toward the goal of equalizing income (didn't Marx say something like this?) in our country and at the same time limiting the amount the rich can invest.' (I am not rich, are you?)

When asked how these new tax dollars would be spent, she replied:

"We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemployed and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in our country who need our help along with millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windfall profits taxes could go a long way to guarantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as 'Americans". (Read that quote again and again and let it sink in. 'Lower your retirement, give it to others who have not worked as you have for it'..

So, Roy Wilson, you say that "course, Pelosi doesn't need one since taxpayers supply her with her own private jet."

Do you have actual proof for this statement or are you just making this up? Can you prove this definitively?

Stimulus=earmarks=pork. Just another lie told by Obama, the first was when he took the oath of office where he swore to protect and defend the Constitution of The United States of America. Welcome to Obama's Amerika comrades! And before you write me off as just another nut, look at what's happening with the companies that took money so far. You will not pay over $500,000.00 to execs. you can't have planes, oh ya, you can't make more than $1.00 a year. The companies never knew what they were getting into when they went hat in hand to Uncle Sugar. Oh and by the way. We will need another 24,000,000 smokers to pay for Schip so light up! Welcome to the collective, to the United Socialist States of Amerika!

One man's pork is another man's job...

GOP won't be happy until it's all just business tax breaks

and we've seen how much trickles down, haven't we?

What is even worse is Obama's scare tactics to fast track its acceptance "Nothing is ever perfect...we need to act now..." Problem is there are huge easy fixes - the best is $870M for Bird Flu Defense!!! Hello is there any leadership out there? This is nothing but a spending fenzy...it will drag our country down NOT help build the economy back up. And then they will put forward another pork filled bill...and on and on till the US is no more...

Who let the Pigs out? Lets shut that barn door and put them back in the pen! I am sick and tired of them wasting my hard earned (worthless Fed printed greenback) dollars on their pet projects and bridges to la la land!

Is it really that hard for a lawyer to get a job these days? Is that why so many end up as reps and senators on capital hill instead of the private sector? And some of you still wonder why we are in such a mess?

I thought Omama was going to go through the federal budget "line by line" and get rid of the unnecessary earmarks (pork). It was going to be "top Priority" for his administration.

All I`m seeing in this stimulus package is more hogs in the corral.

The Republicans had this nation in their slick palms for the majority of 8 years and brought this nation to its knees across the collective board of American life. Today, we have a president attempting to stimulate the economy and give back to Americans much of what was lost during the 8 last years.

Already, the Republican brainwashing machine, to lather up the mind controlled drones, is in high gear! And, how long has Obama been in office? One man's pork is another man's job, quality of life, health care and scraping the bottom of the barrel of human existence.

Nary a word was uttered to condemn Bush's 3 billion dollar pork for a needless war that also cost countless populations of human lives.

Now, America, put on your thinking caps. Can Obama possibly sink this nation into a deeper, slimier quagmire than what we have experienced in the last 8 years!

The Republicans have taken this nation to new and deep depths of defecating on this nation. Let's give the new prez a few weeks. After the Republicans dumped on this nation for 8 years, no one is going to invoke any change overnight. Duhhhhhh!

i definitely do not appreciate the references made of earmarking and pet projects as being points of similarity-it has no relevance. i like the emphasis of many being sausage hungry because that is embedded in so many fatso's in this country. we are a nation of slob-ish and piggish measures....and pigs are much more intelligent than their human members...MUCH MORE!! so i take offense to the clause that infers that organizations looking to actually making an impact or difference as being insignificant or foolish areas of focus

secondly, i am SOOOO thrilled that a bunch of FILIPINO veterans will have a bunch of my hard earned loot........yep, just thrilled. that one makes nooo sense whatsoever.

thirdly, i like the commitment to bring the jobs back to the US when i really don't think many, if any, will be eager to work for $0.75 an hour in the conditions these "undocumented workers" work in....HAHAHA FAT CHANCE! we're lazy and fat, so why would we work for next to nothing. so, good luck with that goal and aspiration...what a bunch of rubbish!

boy, people are reallllllll smart around here. real smart. :/

Hey, Here's a stimulus package for ya! Since the American taxpayers have been bailing out big business and big banks as a result as gross mismanagement, fraud, greed and thievery, why not buy out the American tax payer for a change. Seems to me if the Fed gave every American household that filed a return in 08' a stimulus check for one million dollars we might actually be able to get the economy rolling again. The way I see it, better than half would put it right back into the economy anyway. I'm no economist but how much longer an I going to have to pay for everyone else's big money mistakes? If the American taxpayer is forced to pull in his belt and do with out the basic creature comforts in some cases, why do we keep filling the bellies of the wall street mogals and their interests. I want John Q Public's name and needs included in the stimulus bill!

It's all a matter of public record.

Obama gets Air Force One...and its duplicate.
Peloski has her own jet...and it is paid for by tax dollars.
Many of your congressmen and women don't fly commercial either, of course many would prefer to fly rather than ride with Ted Kennedy. He had this problem getting his "caw" over dat bridge..?

- - - - - - - -
To Flash and Roy Wilson:

So, Roy Wilson, you say that "course, Pelosi doesn't need one since taxpayers supply her with her own private jet."

Do you have actual proof for this statement or are you just making this up? Can you prove this definitively?

GregL, were you PROMISED compensation in addition to your montly pay? My understanding is that this compensation that was never paid was part of the agreement when the Filipinos signed up. I think you have a right to be angry if you were promised something that you did not receive. I do agree with you and "AmericanIndependent" that this package is not where this compensation belongs. But I am angered to learn that our country reneged on a promise they made these people if they would sign on to fight our war. If it needs to be put in some other package, so be it.

GregL, I in no way minimize anyone's service to this country regarding who is worthy of compensation for military service. But when the U.S. SPECIFICALLY offers something in return for service and does not follow up, that is something to be ashamed of. Apparently the U.S. was in desperate and dire need of these Filipinos and made offers and promises to get their services.

I wonder if Pelosi has paid taxes on the personal jet perk? I doubt it...

I love the part of the stimulus that increases health coverage portability. The part that says if you have been insured at your current place of employment for 10 years or more, and you lose your job, you get to keep that insurance.

But that's the only thing I like.

Crystal...
Pelosi is one of the richest women in the country. If she so much wants to 'help' the minorities and illegals then SHE can! Hey Nancy! Move them in with you. Next time a mansion goes up for sale in your neighborhood buy it and move them in. YOU bring their 'unearned' standard of living up and leave us out of it. You care so much go for it. I've gone without for years to be able to save for my retirement. Why the hell should I be taxed to pay for anyone! They don't 'deserve' a thing, let alone what I've sacrificed for. These creeps in Washington are power hungry bottom dwelers who want to control - period!

Remember the first 'stimulus package' that was passed on Bush's watch? The vast majority (9 -1) of American tax payers were against that one too, but most in Washington voted for it anyway, including our new President. Package number one didn't do anything to even slow down the onset of the coming Depression. Our failing economy is like a snowball rolling down a hill; The US taxpayers are sitting at the bottom, with all of Washington standing on top of the mountain laughing.

Well I have some news for ya, this second 'Pork Package' will pass just like the first one, regardless of what the taxpayers say. It too will not do anything positive toward helping John Q. Public, any more than the first one did. Unemployment is reaching record highs and our Government is GIVING AWAY our tax dollars. Now we see that the Federal government is hiring thousands of new employees?!! Who the hell is going to pay these people? My pockets are already empty!!!

Unless ALL of the U.S. taxpayers stand up and take back control of our run-away government (by whatever means necesary), we will remain sheep being lead to the slaughter.

--^--^--^--^-- Bahhhhhhhhhhhhh --^-- BANG ---------------------------------

Maybe the way to handle passing a stimulus plan that isn't full of the crap is to make them vote on it one item at a time and publish their votes so the public can see what they are up to.

Compensation for Fillipinos who aren't citizens - get real! There can't be many of the actual veterans left to even get this much money. Most of the WWII veteran are dead in this country. That's totally insane. Better watch out Burris will be trying to add compensation to all the minority Chicago residents too!

Just goes to show how easy it is for a politicians and dirty bag lawyers to work things so they are so loose in meaning that they can do anything they want. Take that exemption for insurance on yachts, loosely called recreation boats over 60ft, it sure doesn't help very many people and they ones it really helps are the yacht owners who don't want to pay extra to have their boats fixed. Or how about the manufacturing of all those uniforms going to stimulate jobs -- now there's a laugh. Maybe in the textile industry they'd get some overtime but they'd still get sewn together out of the country because of cheap labor! I didn't think we were supposed to be pumping up the economy in Honduras.

Why don't the democrats stop fighting off-shore drilling? That would create a lot of jobs that won't cost the government a dime, and would also stop our independence on foreign oil, (that we are paying through the nose for). It would put money back into the economy, create jobs and not just in the oil business.

I wonder if Pelosi has paid taxes on the personal jet perk? I doubt it...

Guess you didn't know that Bush gave her that jet huh? It's tax exempt by the way and not for personal, but for official use.

I'm not onboard with the congressional plan at all. Obama is likely to veto it in its current form primarily because it contains a lot of stuff that doesn't need to be there. Everyone needs to realize, and even the article states (provided you bother reading the whole thing before posting nonsense here) , that this is not the proposal that came out of Obama's office - matter of fact, this isn't even the one the House wanted to get through...this is the senate's version which is quite diluted and has a lot of stupid stuff in it.

I'm an Obama supporter, but this stimulus package is total crap, and I've written him and every member of my state's congressional delegation to let them know and why. Maybe I'll post the contents of my letter. Everyone should be writing to let these guys know how stupid this is.

one man's pork....is another man"s bread! Pork= fireman,teachers,roads, etc.

Hello

ya think, he made a promise to get away from the pork. right ..the check is in the mail. the unions that put him in office spent in excess of $300,000,000 to put him there! and you think they are not expecting something???? the public is not happy and they will not stand for this. I feel for the pres. because this was pushed on him by the angry liberals including Pelosi. If he wants the public support he had better step up to the plate NOW. He already has strikes against him because of daschle ponetta etal.this is his last at bats folks and he better demonstrate CHANGE

LoL Rich - you have a point but then you ruin it with bull@!$%# numbers...no union spent 300M on anything.

The one thing people never seem to get is that the president is an executive...congress legislates. So if you're going to give anyone a hard time, let congress know how you feel - not by blogging here but by writing your senators and representatives. Duh.

Flash---Nasty Pelosi was given the use of a jet funded by taxpayer dollars when she was elected speaker.
She complained about flying first class back home saying it took too long. It's there. Look for it somewhere in Jan. 2006.

If you lose your job now you can keep the coverage it's called COBRA, whatever you will have to pay for it while you do not have a job. They didn't spell that one out correctly.

Perhaps even additional to the Stimulus Bill should have to have an explanation - exactly who will benefit; how many jobs; what is the cost; what senator/representative added it. Then make it public information.

Let's see how much pork gets added when everyone's "contributions" are transparent - and then let Obama take the red pen and mark out what doesn't belong.

Business as usual. No change, at least no in the right direction.

The only stimulating this bill will serve is to lower the value of the dollar. There is no cure in this one. It's all payback for votes, most locally given to get more votes in the future too. The system is so corrupt there is no cure. The stimulous is self serving liberal social programs they think they've needed for years, they are shoving them all through using the panic of the economy. It's sickening how corrupt it all is. Welcome to the USSA, we are here.

Repubs are adding on more and bigger dollars to the proposed package and are agreeing in principle to what is on the table.

It.. is.. a.. PROCESS. The President didn't write this himself. Some of it is fixing problems caused by the last stimulus package, and it is a collaboration in process and currently under discussion. Not fast food.

By the way, if we had not acted back in September, you would not have been able to use your plastic anywhere, by 2pm the next day.

Everyone over 5 years of age, say AYE.

Not sure what all the Repug slamming here is all about???? Don't they want tax cuts for their constituents and small business owners??? I'm sure these were put in to help create and keep jobs and businesses in AMERICA NOT ELSEWHERE!!!!

The original bill wa 819 billion - now b/c of all the garbage Rebugs are putting in, it's over $900 billion!! SO MUCH FOR CUTTING IT BACK AND SMALL GOVERNMENT - these repugs are nothing but hypocrites. I hope they all lose again in 2010.

I have been watching the debates or dare I say debarcles going on in the Senate on CSPAN this week and I'm blowed away. I cant believe what I am witnessing. The country is broke because our legislative process is broke. The senators are suppose to coming up with a plan to fix America. All i'm hearing is why this or that is a problem, but no bonified solutions. I think every last one needs to get in the chambers and not come out until we have something. They really ought to be ashame of themselves for wasting my tax paying dollars with unproductive session like this. Furthermore, I'm ashamed that I acually voted some of these yae hoos in. This is a call for us to demand more of them and give them a kick you know where to get them on track.

Why not a stimulus bill confined to doing something here and now as well as longer term projects if necessary. How long does the "jump start " need to last? If we are proposing expanding government permanently through the new spending then it should be clearly stated. Adding a laundry list of unrelated projects and priorities is business as usual in Washington. In my opinion the leadership knows there is a lot of money on the table and they want to pass it around to their supporters in the usual way. I think either they are subverting the Presidents agenda or the President was disingenuous (the apologists word for lying) when he said there would be no pork (what earmarks really are) in this bill. It appears the Presidents biggest problem is the long term partisans in his own party who lead the legislative branch, their actions up till now are hardly a breath of fresh air, its more like a whiff of yesterdays beans.

Ann, true, today Cobra is in place.

The health care stimulus plan still allows for Cobra if you have been at your job for less than 10 years. However, after 10 years, you can leave your job but keep the health plan at the regular group rates. Now, you would have to pay the portion that your employer paid, so if you are now paying $100 a month, you'd pay the full amount of $200 a month, but that's a lot cheaper than Cobra.

At least that's what I understand. I might be wrong, though. I haven't read the entire plan.

Lauriesarno - That's the part that doesn't make any sense at all. The republicans just don't understand the fact that tax cuts will not magically make their way out of the pockets of consumers who just aren't sure they'll have a job in a year or so. Everyone is saving.

I'll probably have my job a year or two from now, but because I have to say probably instead of definitely, I'm saving every red cent I get just in case. I believe most Americans feel the exact same way.

I'd love to meet the people the republicans in congress are saying will go out and buy a car with their tax cuts (which they won't even see till 2010).

I really have to laugh at you right wingers still pushing your failed policies. If your side had done so well for America, your guys would still be in power. The fact of the matter is that the Republican ways of borrow and spend put this country into another great depression. Thank God we have a president who believes in "We the People" rather than just rewarding some corporate thugs.

Of course Pelosi's jet is tax exempt, democrats only want to raise taxes, not pay them. They have put themselves above the laws they have created! Who else do you know who gets to vote themselves a raise and have never failed to do so when the opportunity arises?! Why don't they have to pay for their own insurance and then live on Social Security when the time comes? Bet things would "change" then. And our right wing so-called "failed" policies are what the democrats are now talking about implementing, like lowering corporate taxes to keep jobs in this country instead of forcing them to go overseas because our tax rate is one of the highest in the world!

Hello!! All you naysayers-what do you think will happen if the bill does not pass? How many of you out there have enough cash to ride out 5 years of a depression? Cause that's where we're headed unless something is done soon to jump start the economy. You'd rather have tax cuts?? Well, that won't do you much good if you don't have any income.

You don't want your job to be replaced by someone overseas in some cost cutting measure? Then don't complain if our government officials must wear uniforms made in America. It should always have been that way. And the American textile workers will pay income tax on their earning-the foreign worker will not

You whiners don't like it when someone owes you money? Then you should be more than willing to repay the Fillipinos that have been waiting 50 years. The Fillipinos risked their lives to protect your privileged existence. If you read history, you'd know the war was not a slam-dunk. The US obviously felt that the Fillipinos were necessary to help our side. Just be glad you're not in living in a German or Japanese territory under martial law or feudal system. The US should pay its obligations to them before they all die of old age.

I haven't read the whole stimulus package-I'm sure there are some items that look questionable and a few that really should be struck. But many have explanations that are readily apparent. You think studying bees is frivolous? Then get ready to pay $5 for a single apple, zucchini, or other produce. Because the bees are what pollinate these plants and for some unknown reason they're dying resulting in crop failure.

Construction type jobs are only suitable for a fraction of those unemployed. The ex-secretary isn't going to be hired to fix a steel bridge. She'll need a job in an office.

So you naysayers had better start thinking beyond your own narrow lives or move to another country where life is just perfect.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Sound familiar? Do you think this is relevant to our current situation?

I SMELL BACON!! This package is nothing but pork. Just about every member of congress is saying if you want my vote for that put this in it. Pick one thing and pass it or kill it, move on to next.

crystal-569996: Of course Pelosi's jet is tax exempt, democrats only want to raise taxes, not pay them. They have put themselves above the laws they have created!

Poor crystal...wrong. Every house speaker has enjoyed a tax-exempt air force jet for official use. Why? Because technically they're 3rd in command should something happen to the President or V.P. You should've known that. So it has nothing to do with her being a democrat, and that's not a new rule. It's been around for 22 years I believe.

crystal-569996: our tax rate is one of the highest in the world!

Nope. Wrong again. Highest corporate tax rate in the world is in Japan. Germany, Canada, and Belgium also beats us if the numbers are viewed per capita instead of direct collected income.

Sucks not knowing what you're talking about eh?

why not just do away with the special interest breaks all together...just do what this economy needs and nothing else? it is time our politicans stopped with the games and playing for special interest only.

,

I'm looking for it but I just can't see the difference thus far in the policies Obama is pushing. Maybe that's because as of late these pathetic agendas have been roundly supported by both sides (see: the root of the mortgage meltdown).

I'll agree that the borrow and spend deception was a despicable act, but do you honestly believe that a tax and spend ideology is truly the answer to get things on the right track? I don't, and history agrees with me.

Obama preaches a wholesome message but as for now his actions show that he's just out to reward a different breed of thug. Union thugs.

River View:

Still waters run deep, but this apparently does not apply to your IQ. What and where the hell did the Fillipino logic come into play. Take your meds friend!

Jenny,

Yes, I agree. But this is not the place to give it to them. This package is to help the economy. This is supposed to create jobs & help the middle class Americans that pay the governments bills. The ones that are loosing their homes & jobs. This is all politics ass usual again. There has not been a change. They are spending OUR MONEY people wake up!!! One day you are going to wake up & find out you are working to give half your paycheck to the government. Whats the point of working. We will not even be able to pay our bills then. That is exactly what the Dems want. They want us to be totally dependent on the government. Then we will all be poor & all the politicians & Ceos will be the rich, there will be no middle class hard working people left in this country. They want everyone to lose everything, so we will all depend on them. Wake up people, if there is no middle class to tax any more then there will be no more money to get your free check from the government. You think the rich are going to give up their money to fund the government? They will move over seas & leave America in the dirt & it will be the politicians & big business that did it.

Fillipinos..... I'm still waiting for my 40 acres and a mule!!!!

jkenney ... It sounds like a good plan on paper, but the time for action may have been decades ago.

Unfortunately we are at a point now that it would be a civil war between those standing in line for the handouts and those paying the taxes that provide the handouts. And, regrettably, it's to a point where there are more standing in line than there are paying the bill.

Although, the good news is that those paying the bill would be able to withhold payment and buy bigger guns. And, as has been proved in the past, cutting off the supply line (tax dollars in this case) would weaken the efforts of the other side.

I think we have a plan coming together. We just need to join the ranks of the democrats and quit paying taxes.

We will never see the type of lifestyle we had in the past, we are in debt the government is in debt and we for the most part don't make anything. The only thing that will always be the same will be the politicians skill in dividing the money up for their allies and call it change and their supporters from whichever party is in power willingness to accept, defend and cheer their behavior while attacking the other side who just did the same thing feeding different partisans from the public trough.

I've watch the Senate debate and the Senate has proved just like the house has proved that they are incapable of quick clean action.

Need I remind both liberal and conservatives that they had pelenty of time to come to an understanding on this bill. The bill was in theory supposed to be on the president's desk on day one. The extra time has gone to waste.

The democreats could have taken the leadership and taken the most objectionable content out of the bill. Apparently the democratic party is incapable of policing itself.

The republicans have not gone into any kind of detail or plan until this week. Where were they for the last month at least.

Both side are currently posturing and giving inaccurate statements. The bill is going to go though will all the pork and more. Not one repulbican will vote for it so it will be a democratic bill alone.

I just hope that congress readresses some of this spending during the year and kills some of the pork and transfers it to other initatives at their glacial pace. They have proved they are incapable of doing anything quickly.

It's time to bring back line-item veto.

Regan wanted it.

Clinton had it, used it, and got a surplus.

It was then ruled unconsitutional and not avialable for Bush (who also wanted it) or Obama.

The only way it can come back is an amendment.

Congress has proved again that at least in times of crisis if not at all time it is sorely needed.

Pelosi, you don't create wealth by dividing it. You should not be taxing anything until you get the house under control. The next time you overspend the budget, it should come out of your pocket. You continue to spend even though there is no longer any money increasing the debt that we must bear in our golden years and that of our children and grandchildren. Get her out of office. She is a major reason why we are in this position.

Since when did the speaker of the house warrant a private plane? Should be the first perk she gives up in the name of economizing.

I came across this and it seems to fit what's happening in US right now.

A PROPHETIC 1944 SPEECH

Norman Mattoon Thomas (November 20, 1884 - December 19, 1968), and some of you may be old enough to remember him running for President, was a leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America.

Norman Thomas said this in a 1944 speech:

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."

Dave,

I've already got plenty of big guns. I do think a time is coming soon though, seriously. I'm just happy to know that I'm pretty much ready for whatever rolls down the road.

Ok, here's my plan on how to fix the mess we're in.

Go to DC and strip all politicians and lobbyist of their power and money. We could even let them keep 1 of their houses and be generous. Take the money that we got from them to pay off the national debt and to give to small business to create jobs.

Abolish the IRS and introduce a flat tax. Think about the money that would save!

Make all future representatives & senators have a term limit of 12 years. Anyone caught breaking the law during their term gets 20 years no parole. Anyone caught adding pork to a bill, automatic dismissal from the government. Every thing that is considered pork should be voted on separately on it's own merits.

No more executive orders. Where's the checks and balances on that? Too much like royal proclamations if you ask me.

Any bill that requires spending needs show where the money will come from. Anything that requires raising taxes is voted on by the public.

I would love to hear more ideas as well!!

Anybody who has a brain that works know for a fact that congress and that means any congress cannot pass any bill without pork in it. Also what some call pork is not pork. There are certain parts of this bill that are stop gaps for certain situations that exist that need to be fixed. All this story is for is to execise the looney righ. The bill as it stands now was not written by Obama it was written by congress and the pork would be the tax cuts the pubs are trying to put in it for their rich friends and contributors.

Mr. Obama and some in congress say we MUST pass this bill RIGHT NOW. No more time for discussion. It was just reported this morning that out of the last bailout bill known as TARP, the Treasury overpaid for the troubled assets they purchased by $87 BILLION!! WTF??? Hurry up and waste. This bill or whatever they come up with is too important to fail and too important to HURRY UP. Do it right the first time!

This bill needs to be discussed, trimmed down and when finalized actually stimulate the economy and create jobs. All else should be in other bills and go through the normal process. We all know that won't happen. Pay to Play has moved from Illinios to Washington and the people waiting for their payouts will not tolerate anything else.

It simply doesn't matter anymore what WE THE VOTERS think. I am a Repub and did not support the first plan put forth by Bush. I do not support this plan with all the add-ons. There are only a handful of Senators that have never requested and earmark (aka PORK) John McCain is one of them. He ran on the idea to stop this practice and he and others in congress (including some Dems) are trying to put forth another bill in place of this one? Did you know that? Probably not since that doesn't jive with the current Admin., leadership in congress, the people waiting for their payouts and the media's idea of what this bill should be.

Sad....

I COULDN'T POST THE MAP ON VINE, BUT THIS INFO ABOUT THE MAP OF US DESIGNATED BY BLUE AND RED COLORS TO SHOW HOW COUNTIES IN US VOTED IN 2008 ELECTION. OF COURSE, BY FAR MAJORITY OF COUNTIES VOTED REPUBLICAN.

Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law St. Paul, Minnesota points out facts of 2008 Presidential election:

Square miles of land won by counties:

Democrats: 580,000

Republicans: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by:

Democrats: 127 million (their margin was higher in the counties they won which gave them overall lead)

Republicans: 143 million

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:

Democrats: 13.2

Republicans: 2.1

Professor Olson adds:

"In aggregate, the map of the territory won by Republicans was mostly the actual land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Much of Democrat territory encompassed cities and included those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare."

Professor Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million illegal aliens and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA as a free enterprise democracy in fewer than five years.

Gee, he's bringing jobs back from central america, to put the US back to work, and you arwe still whining. If "pork" is what will put the US back to work, then serve it up.

sorry the above was from email to me which said it was 2008 info, but it was actually from 2000 election. Gore vs bush. Complacency to apathy is correct although we are getting closer to moving to next step.

The American experiment may very well expire in our lifetimes.....

About the time our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000 years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years."

"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy; <----------------------
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

"Treasury overpaid for the troubled assets they purchased by $87 BILLION!! "

All I have to say to you and Mccain who brought it up in congress and thought it was only $30b becuase of bad math .... DUH!

What does the T in TARP stand for? Terrific Assets? T-R-O-U-B-L-E-D. That mean bad in case your not familiar with the word. Did anyone belive that TARP was only going to make money? Things are still headed down. We may get back some of our money. We may even make a profit. But is a R-I-S-K. A gamble.

But if you like things that only go up I'm sorry by the Madoff fund is currently under investigation.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/whats_the_deal_with_prof_joseph_olsons.html

Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law St. Paul, Minnesota ...

didn't write that drivel.

ICON,

I guess you missed the point. And yes, I do know what the word troubled means. I like your use of the word "DUH" as well. Very mature.

They overpaid what the trouble assets were actually worth on the day they purchased them. That's not taking into account the losses incurred since they were purchased. And we will probably not make money on them. If anyone actually thought we would, that is troubling.

I think McCain made a huge mistake by supporting that bill. If he hadn't, who knows how things would have turned out?

Flash-389009

"So, Roy Wilson, you say that "course, Pelosi doesn't need one since taxpayers supply her with her own private jet."

Do you have actual proof for this statement or are you just making this up? Can you prove this definitively?"

Just Google "PELOSI PRIVARE JET and you'll find plenty of references. Here's what CBS reported:

"Pelosi reportedly is asking for a much bigger jet — a government version of the Boeing 757 that can make the trip between Washington and her San Francisco home without stopping to refuel." LOL

Darrell - that's the most flawed analysis I've ever read in my entire life.

You can't double-quote statistics...republicans are always whining that 4% of the nations top5% is democratic, then go whining about how the 7% of people on welfare are all democrats.

Here are some real statistics with all the b.s. political rhetoric on either side removed.

• In 2000 5 Million people received welfare, compared to 2 Million in 2005 (next statistic to be gathered in 2010).
• Texas - a 90% republican state, is #3 in welfare recipients behind New York and California (#2 and #1 respectively). When viewed per capita, 7 of the top 20 states in America for welfare distribution (Including Alaska) were republican states.
• When examined per capita, Texas leads the country in homicide rate AGAIN. Otherwise California is #1.

Don't use flawed stats to try and make the argument that more republicans pay taxes than democrats. That's just idiotic - and if you actually believe that, I have 10 pounds of blue mud to sell you.

white trash - Nary a word was uttered to condemn Bush's 3 billion dollar pork for a needless war that also cost countless populations of human lives.

Was not Bush's War, Law H.R. 4655, 1998, "Regime Change" Overthrow of President Hussein, Active US Military Operation Desert Fox. H.R. 4655 became a "Standing Order" for the US Military and a Declaration of War by the then President and Congress.

I don't see how ranting about Republicans has anything to do with solving the problems, especially when it was a Democratic Party controlled Congress the last two years when all the Bailouts, Financial Disasters, and more pork laddened Bailouts occurred.

being what your screen (poster) name is you should know, "squeal like a pig".

Barbeque Pork Butt Sandwich anyone. I smell bacon.

darrell-473614 - MAJORITY OF COUNTIES VOTED REPUBLICAN.
"Popular Vote" does not mean squat. What counts is how many Electoral College Votes you can buy.
worse yet see the interrelationship between the Electoral Colleges and the Bailout locations (VP Biden's Constituents):
http://realestate.msn.com/Buying/Article_busweek.aspx?cp-documentid=10856357>1=35000
http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=10857148

The problem I see today that many you of seem to think that Bush is responsible the first stimulus bill. That is not true he was very much against it. Obama and the congress push it on with some help from McCain. Check your facts please.

I hope that both parties put together a plan that will help us as a Nation. Until a plan is put together and sent to the President nothing is approved. Those of you condemning at this point are simply blowing in the wind.

Blizzy,

sucks not to know what you are talking about, Ireland is just ending what they called the "Celtic Tiger" because so many businesses relocated there for the tax break. Here are the coporate tax rates and yes we are one of the highest!

Ireland
12.50%

Netherlands
25.50%

United Kingdom
30.00%

China
33.00%

Belgium
33.99%

France
34.43%

Germany
38.60%

USA
39.50%

Japan
39.54%

Hallaburton, Eron, Carlyle Grp. READ!

The nine scariest words in the English Language:

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

britt, yes only if it's Bush's. gov.:) sorry.

Bussz. . . As to walfare in the states you are wrong on the #1 it is The District of Columbia, #2 is Guam, #3 Rhode Island and #29 Texas.

I'm so glad that Hussein is in office:

"....I won't have to worry about putting gas in my car. I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage. You know, If I'm going to help him, he's going to help me." -- Peggy Joseph.

See it here and be blessed..........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=381gFG4Crr8

Making a fool how about is a corrupt fool his whole administration is a joke full of lifers and corrupt mafia scumbama bags.....he takes care of his millionaire friends who got him in office

It amazes me how people scream to let this pass. Do people realize that if it did not create a job that is $3066 per person that does pay taxes to support this job. I did not factor in the cabinet members who do not pay taxes so it is substantially larger.

Now we all know Government cannot ever meet budget and with overruns and the additional money we will pay to have "oversight". I use oversight loosely, this bill alone will cost trillions before we finally stop electing politicians and start electing criminals directly and let them know their lives depend on making this work.

Want to pass this bill fine. Put the private sector in charge. Yadda yadda yadda the Wall Street/bankers stole from us. How have we forgotten these same jerks who claim they got screwed by Bankers refused to put oversight in and they also found time to give themselves raises under that TARP program. I have yet to see one of them pay that money back.

Who would you honestly want to build that truly needed Artic Ice Cutter, Government who will demand even more money to decide wether to build it, a private sector company who promised to build at 88 million or me who says if the artic is allready melting cause of climate change, screw the green initiatives let that crap melt and we save ourselves from a new boat and green initiatives.

I love my nature, but it should not be addressed in this package.

No paulette, it refers to ANY government, be it Bush's, Obama's, Clinton's, or JFK's.

Here's some food for thought: The government cannot give anything away that it does not first take from someone else.

He is still campaigning. Where is he going to get all these trained people to do the jobs he is proposing????

Many unemployed cannot read or write well, they cannot even use a broom well. The projects he proposes take tax money to finance and skilled workers. Each job has to be proposed, a project written up and bids put out - it will take years.

The ONLY jobs that will help are the jobs that the small business creates. Governemnt jobs mean more taxes to pay for them. NO ONE WAS EVER TAXED INTO PROSPERITY.

You are assuming the welfare people even want to work. They voted this term so their job is done. They are getting a larger raise than a single person who pays taxes. Single person $500/married $1k, those who do not pay taxes a $1k tax bonus. Since they do not pay taxes they recieve the cash as additional money.

Also please explain why we tax unemployemnt and have limits, but we do not tax welfare and it has no limits?

Flash-389009

Pelosi's private oversized (200 capacity) jet will cost the taxpayers over $5 3/4 million per year just to fly back and forth, 3 days a week, between California to D. C. The last jet she had could not travel more than 2,000 miles without refueling, so she needed one with a larger fuel capacity, for "security purposes".

Above facts found on Google, using the search terms 'Princess Pelosi jet'.

Demitrix,

They have limits on unemployment, so that people like you and me will go back to work to support the people on Welfare!! All that free money has to come from somewhere!

I say the Feds need to reinstate the CCC. Put any able bodied person that collects welfare to work fixing roads, parks, replanting forests, etc. Lets at least get the infrastructure of this country fixed for what we are shelling out in welfare!!

If they had some sort of stipulation for welfare, like you have to put in 20 hrs community service or volunteering a week, something where you GIVE BACK to the community, I bet there would be half as many people on it. I mean, it's not like you would be making them do slave labor, just give back to the community a little-and make them "earn" their welfare money.

blizzy,

PriceWaterhouse 2007 Worldwide Tax Guide: US has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. the US is 1 of only 2 countries that tax their businesses - and individuals - on worldwide income. the other is zimbabwe. (that should give you a warm fuzzy knowing that clinton's tax hike put us in company with a country resembling the weimar republic) when you factor in the US (double) taxation of worldwide income, the effective US rate somewhere around 48%, higher than even japan (statutory rate is 39.54%).

if you're looking for the number 1 reason US companies move their corporate charters overseas, or ship jobs overseas, there ya go. (2008 Conference Board report "Congressional Tax Policy in 2008-2010: Capital Formation, Job Creation and Economic Decline in an Obama Presidency)

even the communist and socialist governments in asia and europe know you can't have real economic growth by punishing businesses, aka employers.

if you want to see the effect of obama's policies, read amity shlaes column on Bloomberg.com last march. obama is doing what hoover did in '31-'32. hoover's enacted legislation almost doubled unemployment and extended the depression by about 8 years. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=alBsmRS72DyM&refer=columnist_shlaes

Occam's Razor

I hear you!

Change to believe in..right! Sure! Ok! Sounds more like the previous administration more and more everyday.

Remember Pork is bi-partisan and dems and repubs love bacon! And a lot of the constituency loves kool-aid.

Oink Oink! I smell pork roasting on our backs...business as usual.

Wow, your rhetoric certainly does not match your moniker, does it?

The bill is supposed to create jobs - The provisions about which you are complaining...create jobs. WHY would the Democrats, who will bear the brunt of the responsability for this bill - pass something that will benefit only their constituents??

It would be the height of stupidity to pass a recovery package that does not create jobs...and the Dems are going to have to create jobs for more than just their constituents if they want to keep their jobs. By the same token, the Republicans have every reason to sabotage this - if they want back in, the best thing that could happen for them is for this bill to fail to create jobs .

The simplest explanation is probably the correct explanation....Ockham's Razor.

MelDel:

I am embarrased to say that I have been there when the money is passed out of DC. Correct - Job creation is key. That is not always what comes from Earmarks. Incentives for business to hire people is FAR greater than handing people money. Rep & Dem are equal to blame. When the Pres says that he will have a broader support when the final bill comes to vote, that only means that those holding out will get something for their district.

Why would democrats do it? Why do republicans do it? That is a deeper question and one that involves a congress that has over time lost touch with the American citizen/taxpayer and the ideals of the Constitution and instead the dems and repubs have become two parts of one big country club. The taxpayer foots the Bill!

They will do anything they want because they will be re-elected no matter what they do. That's how it's been, and how it will continue until people wake up. I don't see it happening. Vote out anyone the has been in 3 terms, by 3 terms they are corrupt no matter who they are. The media spreads the lies instead of being a watchdog, and to get elected you have to be an elite now with tons of money. They are not representatives of the people anymore.

Occam's Razor

Okay - fair enough. At least there is some logic behind your reasoning - there are too many people writing knee-jerk reactions based on what they have heard on whichever punditry show they have watched...but okay, you do make a really good, valid point.

SUZYQ we don't have to drill offshore all we have to do is uncap the 2600 wells all ready drilled in CALIF. they have billions of barrels and the treehugers will not give nobody a drop.

Pork is monies amended to a bill to pay specific causes. An earmark is additions to a bill that do not address a direct group, but does not pertain to that bill.

example:

$2billion to ACORN for electing me. that is pork

$2billion in legalese that only ACORN can apply for the grant is an earmark.

I thought "Change" had come to Washington...seems like the same old BS going on there that has been going on there for the past 200 or so years to me.

For those of you needing a little perspective on what a trillion dollars might look like, imagine this ... a stack of $100 bills.

The thickness of a new $100 bill is 0.0043 inches. So let's start stacking them.

$10,000 (100 bills) would be a stack .43 inches thick. Less than 1/2 inch.

$1 million (10,000 bills) would be a stack 43 inches thick. Or a little over 3.5 feet.

$1 billion (10 million $100 bills) would be a stack nearly 12 football fields high, right at 2/3 of a mile.

Now for the big one ... $1 trillion would be a stack of $100 bill over 678 miles high. Ironically, that's roughly the distance between Washington, DC and Chicago, IL. We're not talking end-to-end or side-by-side. These $100 bills are stacked.

Reading terms in the article like " enough cover " and " deniability " makes my stomach turn. These people are trying to show what great ideas they're proposing, but seek ways to hide under the covers should elements of the plan get questioned or end up not working as planned.

1000 plus pages of mumbo-jumbo from this den of lawyers trying to ram thru a plan as quickly as possible...despite all that wasted and mis-spent money and all the questionable line items that the public is FINALLY starting to pay attention to. I'm sure that they wanted to simply waltz the plan thru within the first few days of the hoopla and happiness of Mr. Obama's inauguration...let's pass out the poison plan before the confetti gets swept off DC's streets.

I thought this was supposed to be about creating all those millions of jobs...but, maybe not.

I think the jobs they are talking about begin with the phrases " will there be fries with that? Or supersize your order?" These were the same kind of jobs President Clinton created, not long lasting ones or careers. Putting windshield wipers on a car in detroit, hour after hour, is needed but is that a career worth paying $50-$90 an hour for? No...

My daughter once asked me how she could tell if she was working on a career option, not just a job. My reponse was to look the the workers working at the company. If they were not teenagers or were not edlerly and retired, were in their 40's, and they had worked there for many years, the chances were good this was a good job, perhaps a good career choice with training benefits, insurance benefits, yet we all know many small companies cannot afford to provide either insurance or training. You are more "free" working for a smaller company and in fact your job security is better, but you have to provide your own health care. It's the trade off.

I think we need to rebuild our public hospitals to provide care for workers who aren't covered by employers health care, but at the same time someone who hasn't worked, refuses to work, and has no intention of ever working, just how much should be provided? If you cannot work that is another story. Maybe only basic health care, certainly not invetro fertilization so they can then go on a book tour? Common sense? Wonder if that is a penny in some people's minds?

Call your representation in D.C. Unplug from Newsvine for 2 minutes, find their website and send them an email or call to let them know if this passes in its current state, they are gone. Repub or Democrat.

Jake-488375

I agree but if Americans are not on newsvine then they are probably watching re-runs of 'reality' TV shows and playing video games with plugs in their ears listening to tunes...while the country spins down the drain. We could be invaded by martians and most of the nation would never know it!

Been there done that....last time I was basically told I am just the stupid working class...Representatives represent themselves not the people......and unfortuately we are stupid enough to re-elect them.....but you better believe he did not get my vote.....If this is how Washington becomes responsible and Obama cleans things up ....we are in deep trouble......we got rid of Bush1 now we have Bush2

Irish?

$50-90 per hour is a lie foisted by the media. The most acurate compilation yet is $56. And that is including all benefits. But then they do not take into consideration that we have given up pay to offset health care costs in every contract since 1980. That's right, they do not subtract what we have given up. $ per hour in pay for benefits, the union will not even tell us how much, because I think if we saw the actual amount there would be hell to pay at the union hall. And by the way, cost for labor (all costs) is 10% of the price of a vehicle.

snielarreal....I think we already have been invaded by Martians already....they all have jobs in the House and senate....have you had a close look at Lady Pelosi lately ???? I'm just wondering where the antennae pop out of her head to contact the home base.

I emailed all of the Senators from my state and told them that if they vote yes on this Bull Crap Pork Package, they will not receive my vote in the future. Recent polls show 70% of Americans are against this. Hopefully if they want to keep their jobs, they will listen to what the majority of people are saying. Keep track of how your senators vote.

The idea pof getting in tounch with them is that they have thier minds made up and that is to he?? with you I will rubber stamp him.

If our president is so green this damn bill should not be so large. Good lord I bet half of the senate/house do not even know what a frikking PDF is.

Wait the administration admitted today they did not write this bill and that they turned it over to the house/senate committees.

So we elected a guy with all the answers, he obviously has none, he has delegated to people that put us into this position economically.

Who should I to believe?

I have never voted for my representative but the SOB keeps getting re-elected because where I live all you usually need is Dem. in front of your name and re-election is automatic no matter how well (or poorly) you represent the wishes of your district. The old "daddy always voted Democrat and so have I and I'll be dammed if I'm gonna change" syndrome.

Hookers and pimps are what is in DC now.

lower than whale manure in the ocean...and that's pretty low.

Umm...would that be Kansas style BBQ, Texas Style, or Carolina style?

Not real sure what style, and is it All-Wet or a Dry-Rub?

Baby, it’s all on the Gov-En-Ment, you choose, Direct to your table with a heart felt smile, lot’s of beer, finger dippin lil snacks, live music, big fun for all . . . Till that bill comes, then you’ll see a mad rush to the door led by Harry, Nancy and the head fry cook and dish washer Barrack.

Nancy is becoming the biggest problem I see, first she come up with we won we get it all now. Hey lady and I use the term lightly, You work for the people grow the freak up. The government is of the people and for the people not your agenda.

Please Mr President and the Dem party get that women (once again I use the term lightly) under control. She acts like a child and we sure as hell don't need a child running congress now.

Dear Rep party you too need to make sure there is no pork on your side also. This bill was to fix the financial mess not to let you spend like a drunk nut the taxpayer money and to the congress men that said he was not ashamed of added pork for his people of the state you need to take a long look at your self it is not about you it is about the USA. If you want this county to make it stop your crap now. The people have had all they want to take you better start to change or you may find out the hard way you do work for the people and they have had it.

All you act like grown up and start to work in the best interest of the people and not your self and your ego for a change and we might just might pull it together. What butt head we have in high places they will end this country if we don't put them in there place which would be out of office. So grow up or get out now, before we help you to the door.

Very cool, a pork BBQ and Obama koolaid to wash it down with, oh what id give for a beer instead.

The problem here is Leadership is totally absent from the equation. Its a free for all. Pelosy, Frank, Obama...between the three we do not have a consistent approach or collaborative bone in their bodies... I guess this is what you get when you elect and inexperienced freshman senator with zero executive experience as president. A leadership vacuum...let's hope for all our sakes he learns how to lead quickly.

I'm quite certain that BO does not take the time to read newsvine. If you want to tell him that, then send him an email... and please learn to spell check and use proper grammer when/if you do so.

Obama is simply trying to frighten the public into begging for whatever plan he puts forward. Details be damned.

Notice how most news articles state that it's the worst 'this' or worse 'that' in "26, 27, or 28 years" ??? Well, that was back when Ronald Reagan was elected. He stepped right into a crap-storm of a national economic mess and I don't recall him using Obama-style scare tactics to try to get his way. He effused optimism for this country. Obama prefers a more doomsday approach.

Sadly, we have many in this country who do not pay attention or aren't capable of rational thinking. Even more sadly, many of these folks have the right to vote.

I agree the problem is leadership. President Bush lead us all with an iron fist down a dead end road and dropped us in the ditch on our heads before he sped out of Washington and now we have a new young and very inexperienced President Obama who does not want to lead with an iron fist so much as he wants everyone to join hands and play nice together. Obama is trying to get the children we have elected in the House and the Senate to run this country together, starting with having both legislative branches put together this stimulus bill and it is not working! The House and the Senate children need a parent with a firm hand to step in and say here is what I need you to do and here is what we are not doing. In short Obama needs to stop holding so many meetings in which he thinks everyone will simply give up there own agendas and lead. I think most Americans who voted for Obama and voted for the democratic majority in the House and Senate did so with the hope that the majority would take over and pass some new legislation. What are you doing Mr President? The Republicans do not like you and they have a different agenda than you do! Mr President stop trying to get everyone to like you it will never happen! Now start leading or we will throw your a** out in four years.

I'm sorry but all the posts in #6 are patisian BS.

The democrates put too much pork in.

The Republians didn't really speak up in detail until this week and are obsuring their message in a bunch of half-turths and retoric.

Where were both side of this a month ago? Remember "on the president's desk day one" Who worked on that? None of them. They didn't talk.

The time for debate was a month ago.

The time for fiscial contraint was years ago.

The time for reducing the debt was a generation ago.

All of them are looking to the past. They have to face up we are broke, the fed is broke. Has anyone thought of ASKING THE CHINESE CENTRAL COMMITEE what they will allow us to do? That is were we are at. China is going to fund at least half of this and if they don't, it won't happen.

mel, you're right,

Obama's having a hard time understanding just how depraved and idiotic the members of congress are when they are shrouded under the veil of partisanship. I used to be a democrat but this stunt by Pelosi et al has driven me out of the party. Obama's problem is that he thinks that the members of congress are rational and honorable. They're not. Democrats are sneaky and trying to pass unrelated pet project spending, and the republicans are pathological liars, posing as fiscally responsible after 8 years of throwing taxpayer money down the drain and failing to do their job. I've had it with the whole bunch.

Dallas Mike--I've already been doing that. I never know who any of the people are running in my districts anyway. They only come out when it's election time. Never in my life have I seen so many people who are so important! Can't even have a secretary return the calls I place for information. (No disrespect to secretaries).

term limits---now that i would vote for--we've got to many people that have never worked in the real world running our country---did clinton, bush or obama ever have a real job? i somehow don't see nancy p working at the local grocery as a teen ager

coach, term limits are a cop out. we already have term limits called elections. It's our damn fault for voting these idiots in every 2 or 6 years. we need legislators who are not tied to parties. I think the repubs are actually worse than the dems, though the dems are pretty disgusting.

I don't know how you can call the money for quit smoking and HIV aids, pork. These issues should have been tackled previously, but the Bush years and the GOP are all about supporting big business (tobacco and pharmeceuticals). These are things that could save our country billions in medical bills in the future; does anyone out there not comprehend this or can you not see the forest for the trees?? Duhhhhh!

cjn,

It don't create jobs. Get rid of it,beside why should the tax payer pay for people's stupidly? You want to smoke you're on your own...

GregL...you are correct...I smoke and that is my problem....$75,000,000 in smoking cessation program " STIMULUS " money does not get me one inch closer to actually quitting the habit.

Yes...there are the long-term health issues tied to smoking. But that has nothing to do whatsoever with this supposed " Economic STIMULUS plan " that, we are being "instructed" is designed to create 4 million jobs immediately and set a stronger course for the economy.

There's nothing like pork ribs, except I prefer beef ribs.

Blame Obama? Yes, they help get him elected, voted for these packages often without even reading them.

Many of the NON left wing wacko Democrats are now saying "whoa..." It's time to read the document, not just vote for it, and shove it through. Of what I've seen nothing in this bill puts people back to work, nor helps those who were losing their homes...only rewards the incompetent CEO's with bonuses. It's time to let the house of cards fall, and let the private enterprise market rebuild itself, not prop it up with socialist and communist ideology. It's time they dusted themselves off after being tosses out of their ivory tower, and find out what every working man or woman already knows. ~amn, it's hard work to pay your bills when you aren't stealing it from someone else?

CJN - I dont care if you hate Bush or not but you should get your facts straight. GWB has done more than most people will ever know for the fight against HIV and AIDS. I dont think GWB is for big tobacco either, you probably mean Obama with his constant struggle with smoking. You want to hate Bush fine, but do it for a real reason. The scapegoat thing got old months ago.

The healthcare to all children including Illegal Immigrants Children, is what made me quit smoking.

It is interesting that the Smoking Secession pork was removed in time for the SCHIP bill.

But last night on the news I saw a figure, it will take 24,000,000 new smokers to pay for Schip. They are getting most of the funding from a .60+ per pack tax increase. Since I already quit over a year ago, good luck smokers, the price is going up even higher.

I quit. That's 222 dollars they wont get from me for SCHIP unless they decide to take it from from my income taxes that they have already used up.

JAKE

really? Just where is the facts to support your claim about bushwacker doing so much to help fight aids and hiv?

How do you claim bush is not pro tobacco? He was pro all big business, where is the data to show he did not support tobacco?

rbach....The funding Bush has been providing to fight AIDS & malaria has been reported in the press for years. However, since it was George Bush's good deed, the articles were small and on back pages. If you think jake is incorrect, then you should check things out for yourself.

Jake is correct and you cannot dispute fact and budget expenditures that have been made.

TONY

thanks for adding your half cent comment

I asked Jake and will wait for his reply

I am fully aware of exactly what bush did and did not do regarding the fight against aids and hiv, thanks for playing though

You saying jake is correct does not make it fact and will wait to see what facts jake based his opinion on

Rbach,

You claim to be fully aware of what GWB has done for aids and malaria, yet you criticise tony and Jake. Get your head out of your arse. I've attached a BBC (read non-partisan) article that shows exactly what Bush has done for Aids and Malaria in Africa, The data is irrefutable that GWB has done more for African well-being than any President before him. Just read a world paper for once or watch a non-spin world news channel. Regardless of all the mistakes in GWB's presidency, this is one that you cannot deny him his just rewards for.

stopalready

news flash aids/hiv is not contained to africa, just for starters. Also I am not talking about the monies that went for fighting other diseases. Notice I stated aids/hiv period since that was the original claim for bushes fame in post 8.5 Lets not do a twist and spin and keep the discussion on the actual topic being talked about.

You insinuate I am getting my info from a talking head of some sort. seems you are all for prejudging anyone who may have a different view. The data you discuss is not irrefutable, there are many factors that must be looked at. How much of the "promised" money has actually found it's way to the agencies that need it? How many stipulations were placed on the funding? Did the money actually produce a positive impact on the aids/hiv battle? I am all for giving full credit only after he accepts the mistakes, cannot have one without the other

Since when is BBC non-partisan???

Thanks for playing though

Actually horse manure has a very mild odor compared to pig manure...

You can smell this for miles!

citizen,

I share your regnance toward Pelosi, Reid and crew on this pork laden "stimulus" bill. Are you equally appalled that the republicans threw $1.5 billion in a nation building excercise in Iraq?? How about the billions they spend on sugar subsidies to try to ruin Cuba's economy?? How about their doing nothing from 2001 to 2007 while they were in control of government and the economic disease was festering, and they did nothing at all to cure it?? seems like there's an awful lot wrong with both political parties.

Call it pig manure if you want. I am against all pork, both Republican and Democrat. However, if you will look closely, the Azzhole Five have been the driving force in our budget expenditures for about three administrations, to slightly varying degrees. I contend that when all is said and done, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd, and Rangel can be either partly or wholey blamed for almost all of our stinking pork accoutrements in Congress. In fact, I blame them for ruining the Bush administration and after Obama fails, and he surely will, I will blame them for that failure also.

above average,

republicans controlled both houses of congress and the white house from 2001 to 2007. the 5 dems you try to blame everything on were minority members of their respective committees. during that time the republicans were in control of the spending, and they reveled in it. $1 billion for an embassy in Iraq. $1.5 trillion for nation building. on and on and on. Blaming Pelosi and crew for the current financial mess, which was years in the making, is a convenient cop out for the blindly partisan. Blaming Pelosi and crew for porking up the stimulus package is appropriate.

"Spam" would be the best description of this fatty legislation and similar in looks to many of our lawmakers.

He didn't write the bill Scott.

While I certainly did not vote for him, nor do I like his politics, I am still giving him 6 months. You can't necessarily blame this pork BS on Obama, but we can sure as hell hold him accountable if he allows the bill to pass with this crap still in there. What's more, his "urging" Congress to hurry reminds me exactly of what 'W' was saying last September.... and I agree with this bill as much as I did with the last one - that is to say, NOT AT ALL.

I don't think he needs to resign because if this bill fails he will get voted out of office. That's if we still have free elections by then.

He needs to quit saying that this bill has to e passed and right now because "I won" and start telling ALL those involved that only things guaranteed to create jobs should be allowed otherwise he will veto the bill

Obama has been pushing this bill non stop. By saying he didn't write it, are you implying he doesn't need to know whats in it?

Jake is correct...anyone can choose to hate George Bush or not. But the fact remains that he has probably done more to save lives in Africa than any politician this country has ever had. Read the facts on this. And he did not go around shooting his mouth off about all the good that was done over there in the fight against AIDS and Malaria. Bush had a character "flaw" of not really caring whether or not people didn't like him.

While Bill Clinton was lauded as the " first black president " he sat on his fat ass while 500,000 Rwandans were hacked to death on live television.

If the two of them ran for office, Clinton would still get 95% of the black vote.

Go figure...

The BLEEP he didn't write it. His ghost writers, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, put all of the favorite perks from Obama and Congress to pay off his supporters. True, there is a power play going on between Obama and Pelosi/Reid, but Obama knew what would happen. This is going the way he wants it and the American people are going to pay the price. We are so dumb we don't know that our vote is our doom.

My only hope is that somewhere there is a loophole that allows Obama to direct the Bureau of public debt how much to borrow to cover the bill, funds his choice of what is in the bill and sends it back to congress for reautorization for extended borrowing.

It would be like line item veto without having the power. The grounds for such an action would be that congress did not authorize the proper amount of authority for the bureau of the public debt to be capable of raising the funds.

Fed Lends Two Trillion Dollars ($2,000,000,000,000) of Taxpayer Money without Any Oversight

jscusmc69

@ Jbdaad---kakael-The strings are right there---Mizuho Securities ,HSBC Securities,Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC
Daiwa Securities America Inc.
Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.
Dresdner Kleinwort Securities LLC

Barclays Capital ,BNP Paribas Securities Corp--These are all Foreign banks or trusts.

The Fed pays intrest and Dividends to these and there is more---December 03, 2008
By Vincent Gioia

The owners of the 12 Central Federal Reserve Banks are:

- Rothschild Bank of London
- Rothschild Bank of Berlin
- Lazard Brothers of Paris
- Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
- Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
- Warburg Bank of Hamburg
- Lehman Brothers of New York
- Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
- Goldman, Sachs of New York
- Chase Manhattan Bank of New York

All-in-all there is about 300 VERY POWERFUL foreign individuals that own the FED through ownership of the listed banks and investment houses.

Theoretically the FED is required to give back most of its PROFITS to the Treasury Dept., but there is NO ORGANIZATION that has the power to AUDIT the FED (not even the Congress or the IRS). Therefore there is a huge opportunity for "creative accounting" to hide and deny the profit that the U.S. Tax Payers are entitled to, which amounts to Hundreds of Billions of Dollars annually.

A few Republicans congressmen annually introduce legislation to AUDIT the FED, and every year, the legislation is defeated. The owners of the FED are an extremely powerful, invisible lobbying power.

Of course it helps the FED owners that they exert major control of media outlets so that the public is kept uninformed about the FED owners' shenanigans. The owners of the FED own the controlling interests in ALL major media in the United States; Rockefeller, through Chase Manhattan bank, controls CBS and ABC and 28 other broadcasting firms. Each of the other owners of the FED also has controlling interest in the US media. This explains why the media have been silent about the FED scam. The FED fraud is the biggest and longest cover-up in United States history.

As pointed out in Part One, According to Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, the US Congress has the power to print money (The Congress shall have the power...to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, ..). According to the Supreme Court, the Congress cannot transfer its power to other organizations like the FED, but they have done it anyway.

Here is how the owners of the FED profit at the expense of the American people.

The US Government runs deficits annually in the billions of dollars, and lately in the trillions of dollars. Congress covers this by issuing government bonds which are bought by the FED. Since the FED has the power to print money, it can buy any amount of the US. Government bonds at almost NO COST, except for the small fee paid to the Treasury to print money (about 3 cents/$100).

This amounts to a profit to the FED owners of about $99.97 for every 3c they invested to print the money. Basically, they exchange something that costs almost nothing to them for the US Government Bonds.

Since the FED can NOT be AUDITED by the IRS (or even by Congress), most of this profit can go anywhere the FED owners want it to go; and it is tax free.

After buying the bonds, the owner of the FED can either keep the bonds, and collect the interest the US Government now owes them, or sell the bonds to the U.S. Taxpayers or foreigners. In either case, the FED owners have received $99.97 profit for every 3 cents it invested to print the money. Since the FED is a privately owned corporation, the profit of the FED goes to the FED owners.

The U.S. Government now owes the FED owners the interest on those bonds. Remember the FED owners do not earn the bonds, they simply arrange for printing the money to buy the bonds. In other words, they created money out of thin air, and exchange it for the interest bearing bonds.

In order to pay for the bonds' interest, the U.S. Government taxes the US population.

When a U.S. citizen holding U.S. Government bonds receives his/her return of investment on the bonds, essentially the money he/she receives is the tax money he/she is paying to the Government.

When the OWNERS of the FED receive the interest on the BONDS they're holding, they are receiving that money essentially for free and without the need to pay taxes on the profit.

In reality every year the FED profits by hundreds of billions of dollars by buying US Government Bonds. Yet it only returns about $20 billion to the US Treasury. The rest of the profit has been spent as "Operational Expenses". The FED expects us to believe that the FED operational expenses are hundreds of billions of dollars annually.

In actuality those profits are given as "DIVIDENDS TO SHAREHOLDERS.

MCCain expose pork sponsors?? Yehhhhh, right!! He's gotten around so much for AZ it's pathetic; and who did he pick for his running mate?? Ms. Bridge to Nowhere herself!! Yeh, he'd expose pork!

Hey, any woman who can shoot a field dress a moose has my vote!

At least she knows where her food comes from, didn't kill her unborn because it was convenient, and you have to admit, much more attractive than any of the other candidates. Alaska is one huge state, and most of it isn't for the faint nor the unwary. Grizzlies like meat...and you're on their menu.

So we should have supported Palin because she can shoot and field dress a moose, she didn't allow her unwed daughter to have an abortion and she's pretty?

Yeah. those are great reasons to elect someone....

Citizen?

Who said Sarah Palin had any say in her daughters choice? I have never heard that until you typed it here, her daughter was getting married. Ya, I know, inconvenient truths hurt liberals don't they?

Why doesn't McCain make the pork sponsors famous now as he professed?

Just because he didn't make President doesn't take away his rights to voice.

Why doesn't McCain make the pork sponsors famous now as he professed?

Because he's one of them? Everyone has their pet projects, and I guarantee he's trying to pull money for his state's pet projects...

Blizzy...please provide a list of all the pork dollars that McCain has brought into Arizona...I guess I'll hear back from you in about 5 years while you're still searching.

Arizona 2006

74 record(s) for a total of $228,076,000

236 record(s) for a total of $350,546,000

There are the list for AZ(Mccain) and Obama(IL) for 2006.

You can't tie back all of that to each but certainly some of it could be.

This data was extracted from the "Citizens Against Goverment Waste"

tony-268769 = owned.

Thanks icono, you beat me to it. No idea why people don't think information can't be acquired in this, the information age.

Tony try googling something yourself to prevent embarrasing moments like this. You're like a guy with the booger hanging out of his nose on national tv. LoL.

Voting for Palin because she is pretty and can kill and field dress a moose makes more sense than voting for someone just because they are a Democrat, a Republican, or the incumbent like way too many people do.

MSNBC worked tirelessly to get the new regime in Washington - so why do they seem so disappointed now?

The Media gives, the Media takes it away.

Becareful guys. The Newsvine patrol staff will probably ban you for violating a secret COH rule that MSNBC is always right and any disagreement means banishment.

Hey, I was warned NOT to bash Bush or Obama?

I guess I have had equal disdain for both, and in fact more so of the latter than the former. At least a Texan knew what to do when we were attacked. They simply lacked the political resolve to finish the job right the first time. If George Bush Sr had listened to General Schwartkopt instead of General Powell we wouldn't have been back for the second round. It would have been over.

But considering what General Powell did for McCain I think a sound blanket party would have been in order...(lol)

Why yesiree bob. A texan sure knows what to do when we are attacked, retaliate by attacking a country that was not even involved. Whee- haw! Stupid is as stupid does...

MSNBC only is mentioning this because the polls show Americans are against the stimulus package. Just like Obama, once the polls started going south so did his support for Daschle and what's her name, and now the pork fest.

Yeah, ChevsMark, I agree about the pork fest.  All I've seen from Obama so far is he is all about a party and worshiping himself.  Super Bowl party, Cocktail party, Totally over blown inaugural which would have paid a good portion of the stimulus himself and now the pork fest!!     

Here, here. Well put.

I got news for you dufus. The "liberal" main stream media does the same thing that Rush or Sean do. They distort the truth (or just plain lie) so that it support their own political agenda, plain and simple. Don't give me that "one side is not being fair" crap. Grow up and turn off the news.

Ya curt,

Don't listen to people who research things before they report them, listen to swallowers like citzenpain, they always know the truth.

seattle, talking about hot button. You said it was a conservative ploy on the infrastructure to label it as pork. You must have come to the show late. The conservatives have been screaming from the begining about not enough of the money was going to infrastructure. So your points athough some part are true you might want to check on others.

well said

"questionable"???? You call out and out paybacks to the groups and areas that supported Pelosi and Obama "questionable"????

39 Billion is infrastructure, that's the bridges and roads you talk about.

subsidizing failed artists, making movies, yachts, and all that other crap in there is not "questionable", it's PORK

You know, just before all this started it was quoted as 100 Billion for infrastructure and job creation, as of yesterday it's grown to 900 Billion! And I've gone through it, although it is a difficult read. Some things "scratched" and then doubled in payment. Some things referring to other legislation, that when you actualy go and read that legislation ends up being for some project that is a continuing waste of money. Anywhere from 2 to 5% of the the money for "administration", and then when it comes to stuff that goes to the states and communities, the get their own 2 to 5% for "administration",all the way down the line.

And in the end, most of the infrastructure will be a shovel, or a weed wacker, or saw. Lot's of "permanent" jobs there.

Hey Tim In Seatle, what I don't agree with is that we are being told that America will vaporize tomorrow if we don't pass this by Friday and I don't think we can get the roads fixed by then or even this year. If we are in as bad a shape as they are telling us, then we need some projects that will only take a month or two to put the money back into the economy quickly. What Obama is not saying is that if he doesn't get his liberal agenda passed in the first 30 days, he will have failed in what he set out to do and risks not being re-elected. The Dems have wanted this stuff for years and now is their chance. If it was really about how bad off we are, then it would not be including all this pork. Remember the first 350 billion bail out? It was passed before over sight provisions that might have actually worked were allowed to be put in it too. This is just more of the same.

Its time to take back our government, one county at a time.

We can start here in the south. I say we take the southeastern states and leave this stinkball country.

And once it happens we shoot lawyers and lobbyists on sight.

We need to collectively demand real "Change". We shouldn't expect him to be able to do it - he comes from Congress. We need a fundamental change to how the US is governed - lawyers are not good decision makers.

da5582: I don't know. I'm at a loss too. Maybe we need to talk to those 60's activists and learn how to protest the politicians this time around.

What can you do? Very simple, contact your Congressman and Senator and voice your concerns. Find others who are equally disgusted and have them do the same. If enough constituents let it be known to the elected that if they enact this that they will lose your vote next time around, then they may give some serious consideration to your input. As long as your email, letter, call to your politician is based on fact, well reasoned rather than threatening and derogatory, your complaint won't fall on deaf ears. Don't simply tell them to vote against it, tell them which portions you feel are unwarranted it at this point. Yes, that will require you looking at some 647 pages but there are enough webbased sources that also break down the expenditure into spreadsheets.

e.g. spreadsheets dot google dot com/ccc?key=pV-c6t5fOVmNorqMpHvnCMw

Uh, that won't do any good. Many of those 60s protestors are now members of Congress!

That's a typical defeatist attitude. If you aren't willing to make the efforts to protest this proposal with your elected official, then you don't have the right to complain about it.

LOL.

I have written letters, made phone calls, etc. I have marched. I have voted.

I have no idea of the impact, really. I have received a few form letters back, and these letters have had nothing to do with my questions/issues.

I would bet that not a single person in DC has read these 1400 pages. They aren't even reading my one page letter!

Start contacting all the new Senators flood their offices with emails and faxes. Tie the office phones up.

In a manner of speaking some here are correct. You need to take back your country, one county at a time.

When you have far left wing wacko judges that think we should turn terrorists loose in this country because their home country of origin doesn't want them back, this should be your first clue that something is wrong. Send them back, let that country deal with them. They're their citizens not ours... We should not pay for feeding and housing them. Budget down how many million?

The problem and I saw it in city council meetings. The only people who show up are the elected council members and a few members of the press. They decide how tall your fences can be, front and back, what color, and in some areas are requiring all gas stations to paint their stations the same color. Who thinks of the latter? Truly it is someone who has nothing to do and too much money? One neighborhood I saw had houses color coded according to the last number of your house, 9 was yellow, 8 was green, etc....covenants they called them and the fine was $hundreds of dollars.

I showed up at a primary caucus...what an eye opener? Anyone is allowed to attend. Out of 20,000 registered voters in that area there were 10 at that meeting. I think every candidate should have a questionaire...so you know what they believe.

I don't want a terrorist turned loose in my neighborhood for any reason.
I don't want a child molester or repeated rapist turned loose in my neighborhood either.
Activists have waters this so far down its worthless any more.
Some of these decisions...are made by your ultra left wing judges and liberals along with your elected representatives and congressmen and congresswomen. They've ceased listening to the electorate, by whom they were put in office. Time to throw them out?

Irish, yes it is time to throw them out.

They count on the electorate behaving as you just described above so they can conduct their private agendas without complaining witnesses. And this happens at you homeowners associations and your local governments, right up to the national level.

These are some real bad habits going on out there that have been going on unchecked for a long time. It's student council with real money. But it's OUR @!$%#ing MONEY!!!!

We will see if this time they haven't finally gone too far. Pissed down our backs and told us it's raining one too many times. Have people finally had enough? I hope so.

The next year or two will tell.

I'm not sure , but I think the insurance in question is like workmans comp insurance that the employer must purchace.Then if a longshoremanor ship builder is injured or killed he or his family will be compesated.So I think what the legislation is saying is that the employer must spend a lot of money on workers comp for the guy who stands beneath a 10 ton sheet of steel while he welds it to another sheet of steel. It is highly dangerous and if somthing bad happened it would likely end his carreer if not his life.But the man who installs the toilets or the bar & barstools or the carpet is not likely to be injured at all,let alone killed(Possible but not likely).So the employer can save money on these employees workers comp insurance.I'm not sure but I think that is what the legislation is about.

Fixing workers comp is a 3 headed problem.

Head #1 is the insurance companies who basically have rooms full of people working to minimize or not pay at all, legitamate claims. They do this partly because of head #'s 2 & 3.

Head #2 is the lawyer that comes on at 2:00 in the morning and 2:00 in the afternoon (because you aren't at work, you are home injured) who specializes in workers comp. cases: "Have you been injured on the job? CALL US we get you big bucks!!!"

Head #3 is the person that takes a job, works for a month or 2, then "takes a dive". This person would rather hurt himself than work. But wants to get paid.

Outlaw # 2 tomorrow. #3 is already illegal and advanced information systems have helped to keep people from travelling around the country pulling this crap (on tour so to speak). But it still happens.

So if you are legitimately injured on the job? Get ready to be treated like a criminal.

Lets HOPE they will be over. Hopefully the idiots who voted for him this time have learned a valuable lesson.

I wonder how many votes Mickey Mouse would get this next election? Maybe we should make that Goofy!!

Pat Paulson I'm told received over 110,000 write in votes when he ran for President!

YES!!!!!

Earth to Charles!!!---You can't stop paying taxes, you are a PEON. Only the Big Dogs don't pay taxes!!!! If the federal government actually COLLECTED the taxes owed by huge corporations and people like Daschle and Rangle, there would be NO deficit. The government is owed billions by corporations and they keep looking the other way. I got a notice this week because they have a "question" about my 2005 taxes!! GO figure!

If they just collected the taxes from the "appointees" our national debt would be lower! (lol)

I have a better solution: Everyone write and call the congressmen and women (especially of your opposing party)!!!!! That is when change will occur...cause their computer systems, their emails, and their voicemails will all crash due to public expression of concern about this stimulus bill. Then they will listen and respond accordingly just to get all of us off their backs.

Writing to these posts is good, but writing to all of them who need to hear from us is even better.

Even better, don't keep electing the same people to office!!

Chop,
Get ready for a call from the Prez. You are now qualified for a cabinet post. Would that be Health Sec. or Chief Performance Officer (this position might be a good one, nobody knows what it is) for you?