Results
Total of 13,903 votes
30.5%
Yes. That is a tremendous amount of money and it will affect a broad spectrum of the economy.
4,246 votes
37.5%
No, so much of this money is wrapped up in wasteful programs, it's likely to fail.
5,208 votes
11.1%
Maybe. But how much faith can you have in a plan with so little bipartisan support?
1,542 votes
20.9%
It doesn't matter. The amount is irrelevant because a stimulus bill can't jumpstart our stalled economy.
2,907 votes


$1 would have been too much. This think won't work and soon we will be called, "The United States of Socialist France".
I do not believe the $789 billion is enough, but it is a great start. Based on what most of the economists say, we will need more, but I am happy to hear that we have at least begun to finally tackle this mess. I too believe part of this problem is based on perception. I think once the Country sees the Government stepping in and actually doing something, confidence will slowing begin to form. I think this is great. To the nay sayers, contrary to what you may think, you really don't want the Stimulus Package to fail.
No, more like the Republic if China...as that is probably from where we are going to borrow the money from. Irony at its finest. Just wait to we cant pay China and they 'foreclose' upon America. Wasteful. But yes, I agree with you.
I agree. The four questions were "loaded" because there wasn't a choice for "not enough".
Look, when your house is on fire, you don't worry about the water you may be wasting.
And if it does work will you promise to leave the country
Jeez. The One World crap again. Micha'el, please calm down. People have been pointing at that stuff for a hundred years and it's always the same. Any minute now, the troops will burst through the door!
America will pull through this. We always do. We have the best and brightest on this problem.
PS- If he replies to me.... I won't see it. I'm not obsessing about this post. So don't waste your breath. Go have a drink and calm down.
It's a shot Obama inherited a lame duck, so any improvement is better than none..if he can keep our heads above the water,, for his 4 yr term he did a great job,,if we sink he was to late.. to stop the train called the US in the high-speed [fueled by FEAR] condition it has become,, under the thumb of the GOP...
If the money is spent and invested wisely, this will work.
Grateful that the Obama team is doing this & not McCain.
People made money when they bought up the distressed
assets after the S&L failure (Bush's brother involved).
More should have gone to reduced mortgage rates and
infrastructure projects. States need to keep going too.
As someone said above, if your house is on fire, you don't
want to limit the water or care where it comes from....
Hey what's wrong with France? every time I go there the folks are happy lots of time off, good food, lots of history (like the french revolution and the same guillotine we need to try on those wall street fat cats). Maybe you should pick a better example, I say we borrow the money from china and default on the loan, what are they going to do: not sell us any more crappy junk?
Oh please. Give me a break. Do you or have you ever taken "socialist" Social Security, unemployment, disability, or welfare? Have you ever gone to a "socialist" public school? Do you benefit from those "socialist" police and fire protections that the government provides for you? No, just keep on making fun of France. That's a good use of your time.
Read Michael Moore's Guide to the 2008 Election - he describes what the French citizens get for their tax dollars. Why can't we investigate something similar? Sounds pretty good! ( an please no comments about how I should move to France - we should have teh same thing here, for us!)
The money could be enough - how they spend it is another story. What the country needs is to jumpstart housing again in our country. It is what sets us apart from other countries. It is the single biggest asset for most consumers and the continued poor media coverage scares the public from buying homes in a time when homes are most affordable and interest rates are fantastic! Get the media to start spreading that news or maybe come up with programs that protect mortgage payments in the case of layoffs at a higher interest rate - DO SOMETHING TO INCENT THE PUBLIC TO START BUYING HOMES AGAIN!!!
This just in: Nancy Peolsi is hanging tough on the issue of schools.
That's my girl! You show 'em who's boss!
We just elected our leaders. Everyone else should either follow or GET OUT OF THE WAY!
I know that some think the housing tax credit wouldn't help because they own a house already, but think of the big picture - how many jobs are involved in the housing market, banking, brokers, realtors, title companies, appraisers, underwriters, loan officers, home inspectors, home warranty companies, insurance companies, painters, contractors, builders, plumbers, carpenters, drywallers, framers, electricians, cement workers and how about all of the companies that provide materials to the above mentioned professions.
Nice choices, none available to choose how we really feel, NO BAILOUT AT ALL. TAKE A REAL VOTE OF THE PEOPLE, let us vote on whether banks should get another penny.
I see all the usually right wing nut jobs are hard at work here again. Yes I guess if I have to choose between Obama turning the US into socialist France or George W turning the US into a Third World Banana Republic, where the ruling bourgeousie elite big business class devours the working poor and have successfully eliminated the middle class, I guess I would choose the one whose spends our taxes to help the greater good of society not just the welfare of corporations and wall street fat cats. Vive la France, baby send me some escargot, croissants, and a fine Boujoulaise.
#1.1 deleted, thousands of words Micha'el didn't write. Fair use applies in comments as well - don't post full articles, it violates #4a and #5 of the CoH.
You idiot, the only thing left is the fair tax. The libs will drag this nation to it's knees before they give the power back to the people.
No, cause all of the Bush haters that promised to leave stayed and look what they have caused, someone has to stay to try and fix what is being done now.
If Obama moves even an inch in the right direction, he's gone light-years further than Bush, et al. did during the entire eight years it took to create this disaster. In fact, all Obama has to do is leave the Oval Office and he's ahead of the game!
I'm all for the stimuls package but....
It's being spent on all the wrong things! They cut the 15K new home tax credit, the 1 thing i thought could actually get the housing market moving again. Now there looking to scale back the credit for new car purchases. I mean jeez for 800 billion they could give every man, woman &child in the country a check for almost 30K. I'm pretty sure that would get the economy moving again. I mean at what point does the Fed goverment actually make a real attempt to tackle the real problem? The housing market! Come on after this is done we will have spent 1.5 Trillion on stimuls in the last year. Do you know how much of a check every one of us 300 million americans could of got for that much money. $50,000 dollars to every man woman and child that is an American citizen. To a majority of us that is or is very close to an entire years salary. I'm pretty sure if 65% of the population doubled there income in 1 year they'd start buying things again. Not to mention those numbers include children most of whom could pay for college themselves with that money sitting in a savings account for 5-10 years.
I mean at what point do we say you guys have screwed this up so much were starting to wonder if you ever wanted to fix the problem in the 1st place?
Ow ya i almost forgot my 6 year old son said to tell our generation thanks for nothing.
First of all adding some govt regulation would not make the u.s. socialistit makes them smart. Look how the 350 billion already given to the banks by the republicans with no regulation they used it to pay the corprate fat cats thier bonuses; thats like giving money to a friend on hard times and instead of paying bills they use it to go to hawaii. Its the money we eventually have to pay back we or the people we chose to represent us should have a say on how they spend it but bush and the republicans are all about no regulations to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
I completely disagree with the cuts from the package that were made thus reducing the effectiveness of the package and for that reason this package has a higher possibility of failing. I sure hope its enough money.
is that why your called maniac?
No, we will now be referred to as theUnited Socialist States of America (USSA)
Oh Well you must be an only child. Spoiled, bratty and a momma's boy. Grow up.
To .. if you are gonna bash a plan and throw out numbers, at least get them right. You say give 300 million people the 800 billion dollars and everyone gets $30k ... wow, that sounds like a grand plan if only it really was $30k ... last time I checked, unless my calculator has government batteries running it, 800,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = $2666. Now don't get me wrong, I'd love a check for $2666 for each of the 6 in my family but somehow I don't think spending it all on the people would get the job done.
Great news - this idiot and his flock will be out of power in 47 months!
If the money had been for a real stimulus program instead of a pork/ear-mark spending bill. We as Americans seem to have forgotten how to take responsibility for our own actions, that includes the state governments that have failed to act prudently.
California has had a financial imbalance, a structural defect, since the mid 90's when they first started taking property tax from local governments and sending it to Sacramento for the Legislature to fiddle away. They have failed to address the real issue of overspending, and I see the same failure to act responsibly in the pork-overspending of the obama administration.
Ignorance is one thing, but wilfully destroying the economy by yelling 'fire' for two years of campaigning just to put his socialist agenda in place is downright evil.
China won't bail us out, but the muslim oil brothers will.
Although it is painfully obvious at this point that true economic recovery is unlikely and (more than likely) not at all the objective of our educated, well-informed leaders; allow me to point out one thing regarding capitalism and the “free market.” The current crisis is not, in my opinion, the result of a free market or capitalism. Rather, it is the result of a failure to implement such a system. First we adopted corporate personhood and gave companies legal rights–originally reserved for the individual–to lobby the government and enact social and structural change. Next, we (or they) allowed for the creation of central banking; further blurring the line between government being a tool of the people and government as a tool of business (or, perhaps, business being a tool of government?). Today, we have readily come to accept government and the economy as being completely intertwined.
Today, our government sees fit to toy with the economy by nationalizing banks, spending trillions on useless bailouts, allowing the Fed to print money with almost no oversight from Congress–all to maintain the status quo of an increasingly static, inflexible, corporate structure which has failed to innovate new solutions to current economic problems in any meaningful way. If anything, it seems to me that what our country has done since the 1800’s is fail to encourage real capitalism and a free market in favor of a system where it is impossible to tell where government ends and business begins. Instead of giving life support to huge corporations, why didn’t they take the exact same amount of money spent (or even a fraction of it) and put it towards helping small and start-up businesses (as this would certainly have created more jobs and allowed for stronger, more flexible business plans to surface)? An even better question is why shouldn’t we see the relationship of business to government as similar to the relationship between religion and government? Certainly, just as unseparated church and state power blur and defeat a rule of law and a social contract, so too does a lack of separation between corporate power and the government.
Ron Pauls. plan was to abolish Federal Reserve. Which in turn would eliminate this countrys Debt. Start new curency backing it with gold. Which would in turn cause prices to fall beacuse there would be no inflation. In current system money is created out of thin air. Suppose you had a printing press in your bedroom and you could create counterfeit $100 bills that were so realistic that not even a bank manager could tell they were bogus. And let’s say that you cranked out a cool $1,000,000. You haven’t built a house, or grown food, or made any clothes, or anything else that people actually need. So while you have created new and additional money, you have not created any new and additional wealth. The total amount of real wealth in the world is exactly the same as before you printed the money. Now let’s say you take the million bucks and buy yourself a nice little condo at the beach. At this point you have certainly increased your own personal wealth dramatically.
Yet since there is no more wealth in total, then logically somebody, somewhere must be poorer as a result. But who? The guy you bought the condo from is O.K., he’s happy with the $1,000,000 which he can turn around and spend on something new for himself. At first glance it might appear that no one was hurt by your counterfeiting scheme. But this is not true. Because there is now more money being spent on the same amount of goods and services, the prices of those goods and services must go up. Which is another way of saying that every dollar is worth less now than it was before. Prices don’t go up all at the same time, of course. Instead, price increases ripple through the economy in waves, affecting some people sooner than others. This is key to understanding who benefits and who is hurt by the creation of new money. The early receivers of the new money benefit, because they have a chance to spend it before prices go up. The late receivers of the new money get screwed. By the time they get their hands on the new money, it’s too late, prices have already increased.
In the real world of central banking, the chief beneficiaries of the creation of new money are: The federal government itself The commercial banks Government contractors The creation of new money “out of thin air” takes many forms. One of the most common is that the Federal Reserve prints up pieces of paper called “Federal Reserve Notes” while the Treasury Department prints up pieces of paper called “Government Bonds.” The Fed then “buys” the bonds with the new money, which the government then spends on whatever strikes its fancy, usually guns and missiles and warheads and submarines and jets and satellites. But use your imagination. It could be anything. $500 toilet seat? No problem! These wonderful things use resources that could have otherwise been put to different uses, and this lowers our standard of living.
You have less stuff than you would have had if the government had not created any new money. How much less? The loss to our economy is truly incalculable, but I don’t think it is unreasonable to guess that living standards would easily be double what they are now, if not for central banking. Money creation can also take the form of bank credit expansion. Besides being an inherent fraud and theft, bank credit expansion is the best explanation for the dreaded “business cycle,” the alternating periods of boom and bust we have experienced since around 1750, when fractional reserve banking first became widespread.
As you might guess, many very creative and complicated techniques have been devised for expanding the money supply, it isn’t necessary to go into that here. The thing to keep in mind is that new money can be created, and that this is a powerful and devious method of wealth redistribution. This also explains why governments long wished to eradicate the gold standard, which had evolved over centuries on the free market. Digging gold out of the ground takes work, and is self-limiting. Gold mining, in a free market, ends up being no more profitable than any other business. Printing paper money or changing numbers in a computer file is essentially costless, and therefore unlimited. I would also point out that most of the great empires in history collapsed, at least in part, because of the continued dilution and devaluation of government money. Money became worthless, and so the division of labor, which depends on money and which is the cause of prosperity, becomes impossible. The people have no choice but to revert to a subsistence economy.
Name-calling will not help. I have prepared a book list for those of you who say only " NO" to everything hopeful and constructive
At this point, negativity is our Achilles heel...lack of "bipartisanship" too. Can't our leaders simply work together for once instead of vying for the next election? The bickering between Republicans and Democrats is bad for National moral and will be seen to be as tainted with "greed" as the rediculous bonus payouts on Wall Street after receiving Government funds...
People aren't just losing faith in American Government, they're losing faith in humanity.
Everyone needs to stop with their personal adgendas and work together to recover, before there nothing to recover from....
The whole plan is ridiculous and wasteful. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their graves in discust. The American Government was not intended to be a big bank for the special interests of the Democratic Party. No earmarks? This is the begininning of the end of America.
AMEN!!!
I'm so mad I can barely see straight. I wake up thinking about it and I go to bed thinking abut it. I am small business. O know he is just a bag of hot air. He says nothing that motivates the small business person. He does the opposite. It won't work - he' full of hot air. and he said nothing to motivate the small business
What he said was energy, health and education. While it needs to be fixed, it should be fixed with incentives for small business and not government. What I heard was European socialism . The education thing they were talking about is what the Germans do. You go to trade school at an early age. What this is a lie. A mess . a train wreck about ready to go off a cliff. I’m mad as hell. I can’t wait for that regime to be removed. I see a revolution brewing.
amen
Obama is Smoke and Mirrors! He puts on a good show but it's all an illusion to finish the wreck Bush started. I am all for a Revolution. Enough is enough!
I just can't believe so many people voted for a socialist. Look at California if you want an example of socialism thats road America is heading down... Complete Failure. We need CHANGE not Obamas sunshine and daises.
I agree with Jesse, Ok we have heard the sunshine and daises. Now show the country what you got. Telling a already beaten down public they are going to have to sacrifice and feel the pain, Give me a brake. He will put the entire burden on the tax payers that are already over burdened with the governments taxation. Want to help your countrymen Obama ? abolish the federal income tax. Get rid of the Federal crutch programs that allow generation after generation to be on welfare or do we call it socialism now. I remember reading in our history books about a then little town called Boston and what happened to a bunch of tea. Only this time the monarchy is from within. The people of this country need to stand as one and dictate to the elite in Washington a new direction, A direction that is best for the people not the politicians.
This is like putting a patch on a DAM. Might stall out the inevitable, but at some point its going to need to be rebuilt. FDR's new plan didn't work... which is similar to what Obama and the DEMS think will work. It was entering WW2 that pulled us out of it. No matter how much money we throw at it (MORE DEBT), it isn't going to stop it... just put us more into Debt. It will fix itself. Show me 2 examples of how a Stimulus of this size has EVER helped a country like ours succeed? History shows otherwise.
My concern is that it may not be big enough.
a) it is not enough. embarrassing that republicans were all over the "bailout" for banks (talk about spending a lot of money; yet they balk at a bill that will put money into the pockets of teh middle class and the working poor. Take money back form the banks and give it to us. republicans - stay home, you guys had 8 years of Bush rule that only served to divide this country; make the rich richer, and move us closer to a dictatorship by trampling on our constitutional rights.
b) socialism? please - the only programs that have EVER helped the average US citizen have been labeled socialism. stop the labeling and look at the program for what it is - helping the average joe survive this mess created by greedy CEOs that have taken our good jobs oversees just because it is cheaper - some patriotism - then taken our taxpayers monies to get them out of the mess they created - and still have the balls and audacity to give themselves fancy trips and huge bonuses while the rest of us lose homes and struggle to feed our families.
Let's work together for once. I was (am) a Hillary fan but i will support Obama's attempt to actually do something to correct the disgrace that we have become thanks to 8 years of Bush and republican rule.
Agree with this plan - hell yes! What we need is more money / tax breaks for the middle class.
Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
Why don't all you people who think it's not enough go and empty out your bank accounts and just give them that too! I don't know what kind of drugs you people do not to be able to see what's really going on in this country but it must be some good stuff! Wake the *%&$ up and pull your heads out of your butts! It's people like yourself that allow this crap to continue. You must be on the receiving end of the money because the normal person sure isin't!
this bill moves us closer to sociialism
And without the bill we will see a very deep depression that this country might not survive. So what is your point?
In the Great Depression, the government stepped in and people yelled "Socialism" but the country recovered and we didn't become a true Socialist state.
Besides people throw out the word "socialism" like it's such a bad thing - we have pieces of socialism throughout the government, but are you turning down your Social Security or Medicare benefits?
The New Deal policies of Roosevelt prolonged the Depression - 17% unemployment as late as 1939
I have news for you -- this country, like other western countries, is a social democracy. You benefit from some socialistic programs, so quit complaining. And quit conflating social democracy with complete socialism and communism.
Good - we need to move closer to Democratic Socialism and get the Capitalist under control. Capitalist should work for the good of the people, not the other way around...
Tell that to those that are ready for what's next...
Johnson, Get your facts right. The Bush"Bail out" giving money to Corporations was Socialist. This is a huge attempt to fix up what Bush and the Repuke party did to America.
These right wingers on here are too stupid to understand that the bush and company were holding Americans'heads under water and chocking the very life from them. They really do not understand the real purpose of the lies told them by Druggie Rush LieBoy and the Repuke Party.
To Johnm....please elaborate on your definition of depression. It seems like you know so much about living through this time. Was it just the unemployment rate that you use as your benchmark? Also, could you please list citations on your stats because they are incomplete and inaccurate in their scope. It was FDR's policies that put my grandparents back to work and enabled startup income to keep our family farm. Had FDR not implemented the WPA, we would have lost the farm during the depression and no one would have been able to put in a crop to feed the Americans during this rough time. Mass starvations would have ensued. The WPA also built the rails and infrastructure that enable the grain from my farm to be shipped for food processing...which probably resulted in the nice dinner you had tonite.
There were so many things implemented by FDR during the Great Depression that were totally intended to be temporary... and they should have been dumped long ago!!! Giving money to those who are on unemployment/ welfare only because they refuse to work (like 'octo-mom'... who 'injured' her back receiving $169,000+ settlement/ disability... yet able to carry 14 children, 8 at one time since this supposed 'injury'). There are so many cases of fraud out there that are totally ignored, and they are at the cost of taxpayers. Not to mention the fraud within each and every government entity, because it is someone elses money they are spending... and their 'business' can't fail. If they run low on funds, they will just pull it out of the taxpayers! That is the problem with the big businesses... too many greedy chiefs with no accountability for their mismanagement.
Not to mention... with all of those automobiles on the multiple lots from the multiple dealerships in any given area... are there really enough drivers out there to consume what is being produced??? Are others buying new cars each year... and if so, what are you doing with your old one??? Over production causes a market to fail! It is economics 101. You don't want to out-supply demand. The same with the housing market, are there really enough individuals/ families for the houses/ condos/ apartments already out there and being built??? Are others buying new houses each year??? If so, what are you doing with your old one??? Once again, economics 101, if supply goes over demand... it is disaster for a business!!! There were any given number of houses for sale in my neighborhood at any given time, and yet thousands of acres are being cleared to build more houses!
Don't get me wrong, I have family in the housing market, and they are all hurting now. Of course, 10 years ago, they were raking it in and enjoying the profits. They didn't acknowledge the obvious, that the market wasn't sustainable.
More government, and more government spending is NOT the answer! It never has been! Our government, along with many big businesses, has become too big to be sustainable. If you environmentalists want to talk, why don't you look at consumption and waste in the above referenced markets. Empty strip malls, because they decided to build a new one a block or two up the street. Just at the cost of some more land, trees, and lawn. Big deal, right???
Really? Is that why the great Depression lasted 7 more years and did not end until after WW2 started? Seriously, some people on this message board need to learn their history. Is that why Roosevelt had his very own recession? Give me a break his socialist policies messed this nation more up and then it was expanded in the 1960s and 70s with the Great Society. Fact is unemployment rate went from 15% to 20%, profits and production declined.
Government intervention got us into the Great Depression using a back door method to stop investment in the stock market. Government intervention with the Smoot-Hawley tariff act of 1930 dropped exports by 50%. Unemployment went from 3.14% in 1929 to 23.5% in 1932. Dropped in 1934 to 21.6% (Roosevelt exempted a few countries from the 1930 Tariffs). Government programs if large enough will reduce unemployment at a rate, but mostly the decrease was due to the increase in trade as Roosevelt negotiated reduced tarriffs with selected countries . Unemployment dropped slowly to 14% by 1937. Government intervention with higher taxes and union protectionism and drove unemployment to 18.9% in 1938. Exemptions accelerated in 1939 as Hitler invaded Poland. Then Unemployment dropped to 9.7 by 1941.
Okay all you Obam arama's were right when you said a vote for McCain was a vote for the war to continue and the recession to get deeper and the American tax-payers would have to pay the bills. I noted for McCain and just look what I caused.
Just give it some time before passing judgment. I think Obama is really trying and means to do anything possible to make it work......
But Obama doesn't understand our monetary policy. We need a leader who does.Â
Who would you suggest? John McCain, who up until 3 months ago thought the "fundamentals of the economy are fine"?
King George W sure understood our monetary policy. Under him it was steal from the poor and workers / Line the pockets of his rich friends.
Lissa - so he's "really trying", so we should give him a chance? Seriously, he has no idea how to govern. He just did exactly what he said he would not do - pass a bill without public review and without an honest bi-partisan effort, and without the senators and reps even being able to read the damn bill, and it's the largest single PANIC spending in the history of the world - it was so important to pass without comment that he waited 5 days to sign it.
Seriously - this is a horrible start and just what we conservatives feared from a hyper-liberal, which is what he tried to hide while running but is really excited to now show to the world.
Why should we give Obama a chance when the policies are mainly from the historic Democratic formula of 1933 - 1952? Through data analysis, raising taxes or lowering taxes on the rich doesn't necessarily correct job loss. I'm looking at the historical data right now. It is difficult to read because all rates were raised and lowered some times at once and other times separately.
Corporate tax rates were raise form constantly from 1929 - 1941 while unemployment jumped up and down. Individual tax rates were raised every 4 years and unemployment jumped up and down pretty close independently. Capital gains were raised in 1934 from 12.5% to 31.5% just as unemployment began to drop. Capital gains was raised to 39% as unemployment continued to dropped. The capital gains was cut to 30% in 1938 as unemployment jumped to 18.9%, but then started to drop even as capital gains dropped to 25%.
What affected employment the most was a severe drop in trade caused by the Smoot-Hawley Tariff act of 1930. That was severe protectionism. Putting "Buy only American Products in legislation is like adding a tariff, because foreign goods cannot compete at all. What's the difference the difference between making the foreign goods twice as expensive or that they just can't us them! What really got us out was decreasing trade protectionism.
I am just wondering when us White folks is suppose to report to the Cotton fields for orientation!
So much of the economy today is based on perceptions and perceptions are based on our near instant information flow from the media. If the perception is positive then the reaction will be positve even in the actual initiative does little to create change.
I believe we needed more, however, some beats none. If we see that some improvement in human suffering has resulted in this "jump shot", maybe Congress will approve more.
Where is the more going to come from?
Empty your pockets and your Bank account, maybe that will be enough! FOOL!
I vote yes. It may help. Those who say its socialist are uninformed in basic economic theory and history of stimulus delivered to troubled economies in the past. The question is, "Is it enough to make a difference?" Putting folks back to work and putting money in their pockets should create confidence that will support an increase in consumer spending that is vital for the recovery. Besides, if we do nothing and "let it fail" how are we to deal with the millions of fellow citizens that will be out of work??? If you like socialism, this is the scenario you hope for....masses too poor to fend for themselves.
Kudo's to the few Republican Senator's who are working hard to be part of the solution rather than all the others who are working hard to perpetuate the problem.
Â
Indeed! Hats off to Arlen Spector, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe, the only Republican legislators who are willing to put America, and not party, first! Now if the Democratic leadership would only be willing to engage the many other Republican legislators, we might actually see some bipartisanship. Is it better to do nothing while jobs, our retirement savings, etc., are lost?
I agree, Laura! I am incredibly impressed with Spector, Collins and Snowe! I can't imagine the pressure and rejection they're receiving from their Republican counterparts. It could not have been an easy decision when everyone about you is taking the easy route.
Our senators and representatives from Kansas have voted no. I hope the people remember that when it comes time to go back to the polls and vote. This former Republican (moderate always) will not be checking ANY Republican boxes this time. Talk about forcing me to the straight party ticket - straight Democrat that is!
Oh really, better to do something than nothing when the something o0nly aggrevates the problem - where is the logic there?
The Conservatives have offered alternatives and their voice has been muted. Cut the Corporate Tax Rate for 2 years by 10%, (we have the highest rate among industrialized nations), cut the marginal tax rate to the middle class as well. Put money into hard infatstructure projects that will create jobs long term, highways, bridges, mass transit, as well as a modernized energy grid that can handle the next generation hybrids. Fact is I believe most conservatives agree with portions of the package going towards those projects that will have a immediate impact. It is the "pork", oh sorry, I forgot, there is not pork in this...
As for who is to blame for all of this, look in the mirror. Two years ago America for the first time had a negative savings rate. We have personally mortgaged our own futures, lived beyond our means, and been a consumer oriented society.
Also noted is the fact that the NEW DEAL did not bring us out of the Great Depression and as many belive in fact extended it.
As a conservative, I am hoping this works. As a realist, I have my doubts. Keep watching, when we "spend" 2 trillion more to prop up the banking system and the economy does start going forward, inflation will be the next obstacle if not barrier. Throw in $4 a gallon gasoline on top of it...and we will see that once again, and who knows.
I certainly hope the first three weeks of this Hope and Change is not a indication of things to come...we have a crook in charge of the Treasury, two fools running Congress, and a President that can speak but looks like a deer caught in the headlights. Still, I can not help but like the guy and root for him...
I guess we'll have to give it some time to see if it really helps. In the meantime, I'd be interested in how you think government spending within the U.S. economy HURTS job production, lack of credit, etc.
Just Thinking As another former Republican I can only tell you I did not leave the Republican Party. IT left ME!
I completely disagree - thank GOD for the Republicans with real conservative values giving voice to those of us who are conservatives.
Government spending with dollars we don't have inflates our money (devaluing it) while placing us further in debt, costing us more tax revenue in subsequent years while decreasing our ability to borrow, worsening our creditworthiness. Economics 101 Laura.
It's no wonder Big O won in a landslide when people like Laura have no idea how money policy and spending effects her and all of us.
For eight years, there was clamour against the Republicans because they were spending our country into oblivion? What you picked up was 3 of th 9 Republicans senators who consistently voted with democrats for more spending. The House passed bills with less spending only to have the Senate kill them or re-write them with increased spending!
Spending more, even if it is on US soil will not solve the problem. Increasing our debt will make it worse!. Interesting statistic I ran across tonight. "W" spent less as a % of GNP than Reagan, but then again, Congress only approved of half the spending cuts Reagan asked for. The House was controlled by democrats then, and there were many grand arguments because the Senate tried to cut more spending out of the House bills.
Way too many people don't understand how government and economics work. The scarier thing is they vote people into office that don't know any more than they do.
The fact that the Homebuyer Tax Credit was reduced from the Senate's version of the stimulus shows that Congress has no idea what is at the root of this economic crisis: decling home values. If the tax credit were included at $15,000, demand for homes would immediately increase and home prices would begin to stabilize. As a result, the "toxic assets" on the books of many of our nation's financial institutions would begin to appreciate and would become easier to value, thus helping in Treasury Secretary Geithner's bailout plan. Furthermore, the receipt of the funds from the tax credit represents a future potential increase in consumer spending, the foundation of our economy. Ordinary Americans who receive such a large benefit are not inclined to save such a large amount or pay down debt. They'll use it to take a vacation, put a down payment on a much needed new car, etc.
It amazes me that Congress decided to cut this portion of the bill while so much of the rest goes towards projects that do little in the way of stimulating the economy and instead invest directly in our long-term infrastructure. While I agree that infrastructure spending is a must, it was not the purpose of this particular piece of legislation. Congress' actions today prove to me that they have no idea what is going on with the economy, nor do they know how to fix it. I give them a big "F" on a job not well done.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"........America needs to wake up, & see that the constitutional rights of every american is being trampled on, (by a herd of politicains, no less.) Do you really want the government telling your Doctor how to treat you? Do you really want your medical records available to anyone in Washington with a big enough checkbook? Do you really want new laws passed, based on the data that these medical records hold?
"Vote for change".......Be careful what you wish for america!
God, I hope it's not too late!. I've written my Senators, HAVE YOU?
You're kidding right?
George W. Bush, responsible for:
Illegal Spying on citizens
Illegal Detention of citizens
Restrictions to Freedom of Assembly for citizens
Last I looked these were fundamental violation of civil rights. You just let it slide because it wasn't you.
And for the record, the Government DOES tell the Doctors how to treat their patients. Additionally the Government DOES control the release and restriction on the communication of Medical Records.
I voted for my Senator and they are doing exactly what I asked them to, Leading.
Let's get it straight . The Patriot Act only EXPIDITED warranted searches and detention of suspected TERRORISTS. Not a single instance of the patriot act resulted in illegal search and seizures as the warrants were recieved after due process but there was no delay in taking a potential terrorist off the street. while waiting for our old procedures, it might have been Your hometown needing a cleanup after a dirty bomb.
Grow up and realize the world isnt perfect
John Beer, King George W killed almost every Constitutional Right you ever had. He let you keep your gun. Just go outside and point it and see how quick the SWAT team cuts you down. WAKE UP!!!
I dont consider fanatical islam terrorists who tried to kill as many Americans, as they could...citizens, and please keep tapping their wires...I want to know where a future murdering maggot is planning American's demise...
I think closing GITMO was a very big mistake..these are not citizens...
Micheal, wake up! The government tells medicare doctors what to do, worksmans comp doctors what to do, and welfare patient doctors what to do. A second oppinion is hard to get, and I know of complaints about the care. Some of these doctors are good, but often, they are the only ones willing to wait for the government to pay up. Surprisingly most private insurance companies pay sooner, and if I don't like their choice of doctors, I can take someone out of network for a little more. I have because I want the best care, not the care some bureaucrat thinks I ought to have.
Eric- I agree with you 100%
And for all the nay sayers out there, come up with something better, not just talking points!!
Talking points are all Obama has. He hasn't a clue.
Go USA Is that Druggie Rush or are you just using his "Talking Points" ? Take 200 more Oxicons and call us in the morning
Where are all the jobs? How many have been taken away since Obama has been in office? Oh yeah, and lets support the man who lets terrorist run free. Go Obama.
I still haven't been able to find out if Republicans had any input on this latest version or if any of them even voted for it.
Are ACORN's billions still in it?
The US government is using our money to buy influnce therebye decreasing oour say in how the country is run. Those who agree are like Esau when he sold his birthright to Jacob for a bowl of soup, the only difference is, we will all lose our birthright in this deal.
If you think you haven't already sold your birthright to corporations - well, what can I say?  - I don't think you understand the situation.
I'll take the corporations, at least I'm not forced to comply! Government policy has a tendency to enforced on everyone!
blazermaniac - it's so easy to be critical and skeptical. President Obama walked into an almost unprecedented set of disasters which the previous government caused with horrific judgement and appalling actions. To say $1 would be too much is a vacuous statement. It offers no realistic explanation of what you think should have been done. An intelliegent, cogent discussion is interesting but not these hyberbolic statements which are based in ignorance of the actuak situation happening. It is so easy to be negative and blow off such a statement as you made. Try adding something constructive.
Christine, you are totally wrong. You need to go back one more administration to find who set the stage for what we are going through now. Planty of blame can be laid at the previous administration's feet for not addressing the problems they saw but the real culprits were Barney Fwank, Chris Dodd and the Clinton administration for starting these downright stupid lending practices and forcing banks to follow them. This stimulus will do not much for the economy, we have a long way to go for this to play out yet.
Wow, that's an awful lot of big fancy words to say a whole lot of nothing. If you want to accuse someone of being stupid and ignorant, then have the respect to just come out and say it. It might be that you ARE as smart as you seem to think you are, but please, it's time for liberals to stop blaming everything on Bush. He's out of office, democrats won, we get it, now move on with your life. Come up with a better excuse. Obama is in control. he is (supposed to be) a leader, so everything is now his fault. That's something leaders just have to accept if they are to be in any way effective. It's time for him to stop campaigning and making false claims about history and blaming everything on the Bush administration and actually do a bit of leading. The new deal was NOT a good thing as he alluded to in his address, it was actually what made the great depression great. (In case you lost your thesaurus during your espousal, great in this context is not equitable to good) What is being done now is an almost exact repeat of the mistakes made by FDR. Given that, what blazermaniac said is true and justified, and I think you owe him or her an apology.
Bill, YOU are wrong. The problem started when the Fed dropped rates to historic lows and kept them there to "solve" the 2002 recession. That was not the Fed's job, but the Federal Government's job! But Bush was too busy giving tax breaks to the wealthy to care about doing his job.
As a result, the worth of the dollar dropped into the toilet, at the same time that cheap money flooded the country. Oil & resources spiked, of course, since the producers aren't dumb, and wanted to make up for the weak dollar.
In the meantime, the market gamers found out a neat way to make a ton of money by "bundling" loans by the hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands and "selling them on". That caused a big push to find anyone willing to borrow and thus create the loans for bundling.
The really ironic part is that, in the end, the wealthy, who conned us into the tax breaks instead of doing their fair share in ending the last recession, ended up giving themselves the shaft!
I'll say it, your stupid and ignorant and apparently bought into revisionist history. Wasn't the Great Depression Bill Clintons fault!?
Christine.
Don't Worry. You did not use a lot of big fancy words. A regular person with a high school grasp of English understands exactly what you are saying. Perhaps because they do not understand your level of intelligence they only think you are saying nothing. I do agree it is time to stop Blaming Bush. We need as much time and brain power to fix the messes he was not smart enough not to prevent, and its our own fault really for voting in a man with a history of bankrupting every company he ever ran. (Well not my fault, I voted against him both times) Never the less, we as Americans need to accept what has happened and move on. I am very amused by the assertion that this is all Obamas FAULT now because he is the leader, and that not accepting he is at fault will make him a less effective leader. Thats a little like robbing a jewelry store and handing the loot over to a stranger on the street when you are getting caught. Our President is now responsible. not at fault, there is a difference.
And as a direct response to that "Are you kidding me "person. If you would get your information from books and study history as a whole instead of gathering biased news bits and opinions from other people you just assume are smart, you should come to realize these lies you speak of are in fact truth. Tried and true methods. So before you open your very uninformed mouth to continue to disrespect our elected leadership with this vomit you want to be true. Remember you think hyperbolic is a "fancy " word.
Get backto basics. Any money spent by the government is money they didn't earn. They have to take the money before they can spend it and they will be taking it from our kids for decades to come with this monstrocity of legislation. Our country has thrived on a free market for over two hundred years and the only periods of economic distress came whe the government stepped in and tried to "fix" it
Let the companies fail that have made poor decisions, and the free market will bring up 7 starup businesses to take their place. our economy will survive and be stronger
HASTE MAKES WASTE!! We need something that is thought out a lot better than this.
Now we hear that there is a $30million dollar item in the stimulus bill for funds to save a marsh mouse in Nancy Pelosi's district !!!
NO PORK??? NO PET PROJECTS??
Give us a break!!!
Tell them to RE_WRITE IT so there is only reasonable stimulus and job creation items in this
THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!
Well, as the President said, a stimulus must create jobs. Spending by someone must take place and right now the government is the only place that can handle that. Tax cuts don't mean much to people who no longer have a job. And, socialism is not exactly what's going on. It's been an effective smoke screen, throw around such language and you hope to kill passage, even if we actually need this. Doing nothing is not an alternative. Tax cuts alone do not stimulate spending. If we do nothing then the world suffers. We often forget that our actions do not just affect us. I would rather see more stimulus and less tax cuts.
I agree completely! Thanks for your post. (Of course, expect reponses from the isolationist who will tell you that we don't need to worry about the rest of the world... small people, small minds)
Hey! I've got an idea. Let's do some math. There are 500,000 unemployed Americans and over 10 million illegal aliens. We don't need more jobs. Just let CITIZENS fill the ones that are being worked by illegals
This works out to one job created for every $244,000 spent. You give this much to any entrepreneur and they will create 5 jobs. Another example of government taking control and failing.
You miss the point. It creates 3 million jobs and those people buy things and that creates more jobs. It will help save homes; and build an infrastructure that is crumbling; it provides benefits while people are looking for those jobs.
Some of the jobs created will be entrepreneurs who can then create those 5 jobs. We all win.
Your assertion is not a valid one. That figure would be correct if creating jobs was the ONLY function of the stimulus bill. The stimulus is also designed to repair and build infrastructure (roads, bridges and buildings) and other hard goods that the country and the economy will make use of in the future. The bill is doing much more than creating jobs, which also must be factored into the equation.
No stimulus or bailouts will help. Once all these big companies fail
or get rid of all ceo's and hire from within the ranks, then they may survive. What congress should about the unemployment is to hire unemployed workers who want to work and form a construction battlion and pay them as they would the military and thier skills and use them to do all the building that needs to be done in each state. school, bridges, government projects, water plants, ect. That should put millions to work.
I agree but look another direction. Hire a couple thousand border guards and INS agents to deport and keep out over 10 MILLION illegal aliens. HMMM..... about a half million unemployed an 10 million newly available jobs. I think that would do.
why does the government make it so hard, give the people money, not 400 or 800 dollars, but something substantial and people will spend it. give people a 5K or 10K and you will see spending. Even if people payoff bills at first with it, they will eventually spend it. i don't see how me spending 800 dollars is going to help, heck i spend 250 on a new suit; now the economy will really get rolling. So no money for the people but billions to business's that lost it in the first place. I hope this was the change everyone voted for???? FRAUD
You are confusing the Stimulus bill with the Bank Bailout. The stimulus bill will NOT be going to "businesses that lost it in the first place". That is the Bank Bailout bill which is totally separate and was passed under GW Bush. The stimulus bill will go for roads, bridges, electrical grids, development of renewable energy sources, schools, etc.
Yes, this is the change that we voted for. Bush gives money to Wall Street with no strings attached. Obama is giving money to programs to start people working (it will take workers to complete the list of tasks I have outlined).
If I remember right I do believe that Obama and Nancy and Harry all voted for the same bank bail out bill that Bush signed into law.. Remember He left his TelePrompter and stump speech to run in for a few minutes last fall to vote for the bill that the liberals helped to create.. And lets not forget who is over the approbations committees that handed out this money.. Barney Franks.. So don't give me any no strings attached okay..
So the "tax cuts" are now less than 500/1000 dollars for working people and 300 for those on disability or social security. I really do hope you all remember these so-called "tax breaks" when taxes have to be raised to pay for this obamination.
I just wish our president wouldn't use the word I so much.He isn"t the country,he's just one man trying to please only a few of them .Please everyone and give us all a few thousand dollars. That will help get our country a boost. I would even go out and buy a new TV.
Okay… so.., I don't want any "package" if it's really not going to help. I'm not an Economic Genius and I'm not going to pretend that I understand ALL the details, (even though I do agree with the above, I haven't read the most recent package info, so that could be more helpful) but what I do know, and what is painfully clear is that MY Children, and MYSELF will be responsible for paying this back for years... That wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that I'm not really going to benefit from this... Not at all…
Here's the crux of the situation, I'm not poor, I make too much for food stamps, welfare, section 8, any government help, etc... I'm not rich, I can't afford to buy a house, (even with excellent prices, and lower interest rates), I haven't lost my job, (thank the Lord!) so any of these "newly created" jobs wont mean anything for me. I have health Insurance through my job, although it's definitely not free. I travel to work on roads that are still in good shape, I don’t cross any bridges. I make just enough to get myself and my family by paycheck to paycheck, with a little bit for savings (very little)... What exactly is this package going to do for me? I'm going to have to pay for the darn thing for years and years to come, and what will I get for that? Sadly... Nothing. I know I'm not alone... I can’t be.
So why not this, give EVERYONE the same (pardon the expression) stimulation, just scale it down. I'm sorry if I'm overly simplistic, but geez, If I'm going to have to pay it back in taxes (like a loan from the bank) give ME and MY FAMILY our fair share... with my fair share I could pay off medical bills, (that my PPO Insurance wont cover) which would free up more spending money for myself, Maybe put a down payment on a house, so we can get out of our apartment, (which by-the-way, the rent alone is as much as some mortgages, so I’m just throwing away that money, I Just can't quite make the down payment to turn that wastefulness into an investment),... I can think of so many ways, to do my share of stimulation, but it's not going to happen... I'm just really irritated... I feel like I'm being punished because I'm doing Just OKAY, (even though every day is a struggle), because I'm not poor, or rich, I'm left holding an over inflated bag of useless stimulation.... Thanks for listening.
How about instead of giving everyone 500 dollars let's do 50,000. Or even 500,00. The everyone would be out of debt.
Except the government that has to get the money from somewhere. Oh, that's right. They have to tax our kids into oblivion.
When will you people learn the government doesn't have ANY money to give. They have to take it from you first. Tell Congress to stop taking your money and you will stimulate the economy on your own
The bailout is like a dixie cup being used to bail out the sinking Titanic. Come on, billions given to cheats, billions going to those that cant pay for things anyway. What the heck is going?