You guys should quit grousing and be damn glad somebody with a grounding in reality is running things.

He reached a compromise between two extremes. As one who'll be there in a couple of years I can live with that.

John,

I believe that is what we did in Iraq. When the "Mission Accomplished" message didn't work the money started flowing.

It is true, Unrepentant Conservative, talk without much substance. We are probably paying them as that is the only way they will "help." Otherwise, we are on our own.

If someone could finally get it straight as to it is we are fight in Afghanistan. The Taliban Or AL-Qaeda, Because all I am reading is all the fighting is with the Taliban. And no one has seen or heard of the Al-Qaeda, except the ones they say they are killing in Pakistan. Social workers? Next thing you know they will send over the Peace Corps. if we are going to fight then fight if we are going to play footsies, then save the Billions and just bring all the troops home

So Cookie, when do the dems take responsibility for their own actions? When does Obama become president and when does he become accountable to the citizens of this great nation for his actions? I don't want to miss that major event in my life. I will have the recorders on when he stops blaming previous administrations and takes on the responsibility of the office.

Personally, the day he took office is the day all this became his. He had the plan, he told you and all of us so, that was why he got 52% of the vote. Suddenly his plans come face to face with reality, and when he is subject to criticism he blames the previous administration like a cheap suit and inexperienced politiican. Oh well, I guess you get what you pay for.

What makes it even more outlandish is that Biden is providing counsel to Obama. I'd love to hear that.

cookie,

Who is we? I believe "we" to be my 21 y/o son in the 101rst infantry (nick name is cookie by the way)and my other 20 y/o son in the USMC...they are the "WE" that are going to go over there and fight the enemy while our President tries to hold hands with the Taliban and the poppyseed growers all the while he continues to put on his hollywierd show............I am glad he is sending more troops but they need to go over there and kick a&& too......trainning Afghan soldiers is a start...but lets just go all the way get this over with and come home..What worked in Iraq may not work in Afghanastan... I hope he listens to General Petraeus..seems he is the only one that has a plan. But as theis President has proven in these two awful months is that he listens really to no one while pretending to listen to everyone...he really is a sly politician..got to hand him that!

TJ. We get what we paid for... yes it's like the country elected Madoff........no joke!

JOHN you need to get your facts right , I did not vote for Obama, but it was McCain that got the Borders wrong

Asked on ABC's "Good Morning America" about the situation in Afghanistan -- where both presidential candidates call for sending more US troops to take on the resurgent Taliban and root out al Qaeda, McCain replied.

"I think it's serious. . . . It's a serious situation, but there's a lot of things we need to do. We have a lot of work to do and I'm afraid it's a very hard struggle, particularly given the situation on the Iraq/Pakistan border."

Iraq and Pakistan do not share a border; it is the Afghanistan/Pakistan border where intelligence officials believe remnants of al Qaeda are rebuilding.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/07/mccain_appears.html

But then again knowing who knew the borders or who didn't, is not the issue here, It's what is he (Obama) going to do? First we need to drop this lack of consensus between the President, The VP, Sec Of def. And the Joint Chiefs Their differences sure as hell does make it look like no one knows what they are doing or planning on doing

Parnell, you actually think B.O. is grounded in reality? If running up the debt into trillions and going into another country (Afghanistan) is going to end the Taliban, you are drinking too much kool-aid.

I guess you guys want the President to fail in Pakistan and Afghanistan too. How sad. As for President Bush, National Public Radio had a great program discussing the unbelievable corruption rampant in Afghanistan. President Bush did NOTHING about it. NOTHING! (Something of a pattern I think.) That's why the Afghan people are turning to the Taliban. Focusing on winning over the Afghan people makes tons of sense.

Reality is ugly, but we have no alternative except to deal with it IF WE WANT TO WIN. I'm not sure why President Bush wouldn't deal effectively with this critical issue - he certainly had access to the same resources as President Obama. President Obama is going to deal with it and his credibility with the American people permits him. God bless him and God bless the troops who must sacrifice so much yet do it willingly for our country.

WIN?????? You really think this thing is win able? 8 years into this thing and you believe we can win ? We'll why not, lets dump a few more Billions of dollars over there, after all it's chump change for him, and well why not, lets send a few thousand more troops over, and some social workers.. I am bit more concerned about the people living in our tent cities more and more then those living in tents over there.

Foreign Policy is not easy at all. While I agree we need to stop the Taliban and Al Qaeda I agree with VP Biden that we have to be careful we do not end up in a quagmire. Those who follow foreign affairs and even those who don't remember Russia's 10 year slide into quick sand in Afghanistan. We should take a hard look and learn from their mistakes. There was an article I read recently in which an ex KGB agent stated that the US should consider cover operations exclusively instead of committing large amounts of troops to some of the toughest terrain in the world. There is some truth to this. We need to train the Afghanistans to protect and fight for their own country but that will take time and money and there is To much corruption in Afghanistan and Pakistan for that matter. You can't set wide ranging benchmarks. Baby steps will have to do.

It's so easy to forget we helped create the Taliban and would have been just fine with them in Afghanistan, had they only accepted the agreement the US wanted to pay them for the gas pipes running through their country. The Taliban wanted some of the gas running through the pipeline to the power plant in India that was being build, thanks to ENRON and other investors and they wanted the US to rebuild their infrastructure, the US didn't want to do either.

http://www.networkideas.org/news/feb2002/print/prnt280202_Enron_Taliban.htm

poof, the Enron papers get destroyed in building 7 of the WTC. VP Cheney shreads emails and covers up the rest. I doubt very seriously whether Ken Lay is even dead. I picture him sitting pretty under an assumed name down in South America somewhere.

Read this article, it's pretty good. I find it very hard to bail out these companies, especially after putting many of the pieces together.

I don't trust because the government behind the government is still alive and kicking. I want truth in government. All I have now are a bunch of bills to pay for a corrupt corporate government I didn't vote for because they weren't on the ballot.

So what are you saying - just pull out? Leave Afghanistan to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Forget 9/11. Let Pakistan and its 170,000,000 people and nuclear weapons fall to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. AND YOU WENT TO WAR BECAUSE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ! This is too much hypocrisy even for the Party of NO. We may not have enough lives to sacrifice or money to spend if this insanity gets out of control.

So let me get this straight. Your hatred of President Obama and the Democrats is so consuming that you choose to obstruct everything to the point of appearing to be the extremists we are combating in other countries. You depress me. I need to watch Face the Nation.

why don't all you partisan, finger pointing morons wake up and go sell papers or something ? You're worse than the congress and couldn't solve a simple cross word puzzle. The best you offer is childish banter.

Unrepentant. You are right about the uninformed. Repent!

Unrepentant Did you even read the article? Your post seems as if you have a vague idea that meetings were held but you heard very little of what actually happened. Do you want so badly for President to fail that you don't even listen?

Obama is doing nothing but workingthe polls - he feels (as did Clinton) being a leader means campaigning during your term... BTW I'd like some of the aid going to Pakistan - we have better control of where the TARP money is going as compared to that chuck of cash!!!

Unrepentant...your post is laughable and silly except that you atually beleive it. Bush had "goals " and policies in Afghanistan??? What planet have yoiu been living in the past 8 years? Seriously? You have to be one of the most deluded people ever. Why do you think even your friends at FOX news agreed Afghanistan was a war without objectives, strategy? Man, if you are the mind of a US voter, I feel sorry for us.

Bush had goals and policies in Afghanistan......hahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahaahahahaahahahaha...I have to stop laughing before I get a headache from reading diatribe like yours.

And the list of
screw ups" go on and on.

All requested anonymity because they were discussing meetings that involved classified material and the shaping of policy.

Am I the only who finds it bad that people are releasing classified material? Is that not a crime?

I don't believe it . I think the adm. is allowing certain things to be said to gauge reaction to it prior to acting on it and to help sell their program . No different than any other except the tone now is how concerned and informed Obama is ( sitting in Camp David contemplating another historic decision or watching a basketball playoff ?) rather than trying to uncover damaging info or slanting it to make him look bad . Crap as usual

More american soldiers and military operations=more dead american soldiers + a lot more dead afghan civilians= more hatred against america=more people who want to kill americans & more al queda.

and no, Iraq is not an example of staying the course and winning in the end. In Iraq we have slaughtered over 500K civilians, 4 million had to leave the country because of the religious war we ignited (probably intentionally to divide the "enemy"), wasted aprox. 4500 U.S. lives and a trillion or so $$ that could have been used here. The result is we converted one of the most secular and western leaning countries in the middle east, and which was also a block on the power of Iran, into a much more theocratic (Islamic extremist) country which is much closer, culturally and diplomatically with Iran.

The big winner of the Iraq war is Iran.

I doubt that the winner of the ramped up afghan conflict will be the U.S.

Major General Smedley Butler (USMC) fought in WWI, Haiti, Nicaruaga, Mexico and Cuba in the early part of the 1900's. He recieved the Congressional Medal of Honour twice as well as many other decorations. Here is a speech he gave to the American Legion convention in 1933:

Smedley Butler on Interventionism:

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Oh please shut-up. None of you have any creditablity. Stop knocking Obama for doing the same stupidity your beloved Bush and Reagan have done which is set America and the Western world towards the brink of disaster.

At least NOW we have a leader who listens to the Generals on the ground and acts on there advice, insted of his own experience,,, or lack there of...

Since President Obama is trying to do something about the violence against women and girls in Afghanistan, maybe he could also do something about the violence against women and girls in the United States of America.

I see the Repubs are still into nation building...I am glad to see Obama knows nation building is not the responsibility of the U.S. It has cost my grandchildren an enormous amount knowing the debts they have to pay for nation building in Iraq.

Ive got an idea - why don't we send a bill to all the corporations who lobbied for these "wars", benefitted from them and ultimately were the real reason for us to be in these countries to beging with:

halliburton unical bp exxon citi b of america boeing ge nbc news corp aig etc.... (basically most of the s&p 500)

Once we assess the cost of these wars, likely all of these companies will be owned by the us government (since they can't pay for the war). we can then use the sickening profits from war profiteering and suffering to offset the stimulus package and maybe bring peace to the world.... i think another good thing would be to pay these servicemen and women at least 50% of what the corporate clowns pay their private armies, and decent benefits for all those who died ....

Bill,

your quote nailed it. War is poor men dying and rich men profiting. I suggest that before one more man is killed in any of these ridiculous wars, each member of congress, CEO of the S&P 500, everyone at Fox news provide at least one member of their immediate family (preferably themselves) to join the infantry "in harm's way or a $50 million dollar contribution to the victims families (you will be amazed how many would prefer to lose a family member before 50M!!) .... War is about greed, money, power and property. The scam of patriotism, nationalism etc is a con to get us to fight "cheap" - otherwise these guys would use their own private armies .....

BRAVO!

The fact that there was a debate at all puts this administration light-years ahead of the last.

In the Bush Administration, if you dared to speak out - you were gone!

And it's what Obama said he wished for from the people around him - to question each and every decision, contribute a bright rebuttal.

And Unrepentant Conservative's comments represent the old rigid tunneled mind-set. Incorrectly suggesting that the President doesn't "listen" to those involved. Pure 'kool-aid'. It's clear to me that the policy is a consensus of all the input.

Finally, there's still a lot of hate directed at the President from the continously shrinking minority. President Obama remains one of the most popular President of all time since John Gallop introduced his "approval rating" poll in the '30s. The majority has spoken, he's our President for the next 4-years. And if he continues to maintain his popularity, and there's no indication he won't, more than likely he has 8-years. Deal with it neocons.

So let me get this straight. All of you nimrods DON'T want Obama to capture or kill the terrorists responsible for 9/11? It was his campaign promise and he is following through with it. We took our eye off the ball with Iraq and now Obama is focusing on the real threat to our security, al Queda. And you idiots have a problem with that? The economy is showing some signs of recovery, we are going after the perpetrators of 9/11, Obama is reversing most of the horrid policies of the Bush administration, the world is slowly starting to respect us again and all you as%%oles can do is whine and complain. Let's see where were at by the end of the summer before you rev up your sky is falling campaign. Goddamn, give Obama some slack.

OMG your a moron! 9/11 going on 8 years now and what has your repuke party done to get justice for it?

IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US MORONS IM TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT IT!

Iraq was a loss when there were no WMD found there! The only success has been the success in Bull sh-ting half of America into believing that Iraq was part of 9/11 and they had WMD's. The world is much wiser and anyone who still believes Iraq was justified need there ass's kicked!

All Bush did was give into Osoma's demand to pull our troops out of Saudi Arabia, the big-est lie now is believing there is still a threat, Osoma got what he wanted, and Bush gave it to him, wile making Billions for his crony friends.

I say let Obama get Osoma once and for all,I say kill the SOB, and Bush should be jailed for treason for allowing him to be free all these years.

As for our soldiers well many have died, and died for what? O I know money for the same corperation that have riped us off over the last 8 years!

The blood of our dead soldiers and the mess we are in today is on the hands of all those repukes who voted for Bush!

York4174

I guess you guys want the President to fail in Pakistan and Afghanistan too. How sad. As for President Bush, National Public Radio had a great program discussing the unbelievable corruption rampant in Afghanistan. President Bush did NOTHING about it. NOTHING! (Something of a pattern I think.) That's why the Afghan people are turning to the Taliban. Focusing on winning over the Afghan people makes tons of sense.

Wow you are worried about some corruption running rampant in Afghanistan that you claim President Bush did nothing about.

Have you paid any attention to our southern boarder and the corruption running rampant down there and what has President Obama done? He is sending 90 agents down to look around and see if we need to do anything about it and it has already been shown to be over the boarder and going on in this country. Is he waiting for them to show up on the White House lawn? He's too busy spending money on every crook in business. You thought President Bush was bad well your looking at the same thing but with a higher price tag. AND if I hear again what has been inherited, I will throw up. I don't care where it came from just do something to fix it besides throwing huge amounts of money at it.

Last time we were focused on a narrow agenda in Afganistan we succeeded in getting rid of the Soviets but we gave birth to the Taliban. We dont need narrow focus. We need nation building. We have to build a government that can govern the country not kill one particular pirate and leave 15 more to terrorize the local populace. If we could get the Afgan people to set up a government similar to our original government (give the various warlord territories strong State powers but put everything under one central government it would have a chance.)

Nation building unfortunately is difficult when we need to build our own nation, and I'm wary of just how much that is our responsibility even if we could afford it. But I agree that the way to prevent another 9-11 is to address reasons for the hatred in the first place. Military forces are counter to this. Military forces must be limited to enabling uncorrupted self-governing only. When people are safe they can improve standard of living, and that in turn will reduce hate.

Right now there is no crop (e.g., wheat) that can replace a cash crop like opium. To stop the drug trafficking, there must be other ways for people to earn a living. It is easier for a country like India to advance because countries like Afghanistan don't even want women (50% of their population) to have education. This, along with other problems like no free press, etc. are obstacles to democracy.

Perhaps all we can do is contain the problem. Because Pakistan has nukes, I feel it is more important to contain terrorism in this area than other areas, for example Somalia. But I am skeptical that you can really end terrorism. Heck, we can't even get rid of sexist, anti-democracy folks like Rush Limbaugh in our own backyard.

Like everything else Obama and the Democrats have congerred up, spending in the trillions, dropping the word terrorism from being spoken in teh White House, to this I'm standing firm plan of sending more troops that were already going to Afganistan in the first place, to his pledge to shut down the coal industry, to moving towards alternate forms of engery, there's nothing to these plans, words, or actions. Mostly half truths to just outright lies,

To the original poster:

What makes you so damn sure that the man on the ground is right ? He's one man with his own opinion. We should send more troops because HE THINKS IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO ? Remember Shock and AWE ? Seems to me that was another mans opinion and as it turns out he was dead wrong as well.

We are at war with a barbaric group of people. They want us all dead !!!! Not just the jews! They must be stopped before they hit us again. How many innocent people have to die before we GET IT !!!

Parnell Meagre - You guys should quit grousing and be damn glad somebody with a grounding in reality is running things.

Yes, listening to the Conventional Warfare Forces, like the USMC that are on a Vietnam era Forward Operating Base in Western Afghanistan, with no control of the region. One of the rules of combat is to find (locate) the enemy, fix them in place to prevent them from escaping, and then completely destroy them. So these marines, the incoming forces, and the hundreds of civilians (book smart experts, no common sense, no experience here) are going where, a "Green Zone" like Iraq so that they can become sniper and mortar attack targets like shooting fish in a barrel with a grenade launcher. Realize that General and Admirals are Politicals (time spent 80% Political (Policy, Policy into Military Plans and justifying to Congress Appropriations), 10% Military, 5% Community Relations ("photo opportunities"), 5% other), the highest grade for Combat Commanders "on the ground" are the O-6s.

Fred G. from N.C. - He reached a compromise between two extremes. As one who'll be there in a couple of years I can live with that.

I asked before if you are going or have gone thru the "Q" Course, come see me after assessment. And you will see how effective compromise is.

HRDawg - In the Bush Administration, if you dared to speak out - you were gone!

March 2009, H.R. 1955 and S.1959.

Cookie-550686 - Must be nice to live in complete ignorance, keep it up GOP we'll take care of things now.

Does that mean me and my "boys" can leave if we say that we are GOP. LOL. Get your butt over here and bring your friends and "take care of things now".

sygh - It's so easy to forget we helped create the Taliban.

Unfortunely, that is true and false, my peer trained the Muhajeen, not the Taliban. The Taliban came into Political Power because of the power vaccum left by the defeat of the USSR and the fact that Congress refused at that time to appropriate a few million to rebuild the devastated Afghanistan (USSR bombed whole villages into nothing), eventhough Senator Charles Wilson warned Congress what would happen. So now here we are again and now it will cost Billions instead of Millions.

anti bush-479970 - Iraq was a loss when there were no WMD found there! The only success has been the success in Bull sh-ting half of America into believing that Iraq was part of 9/11 and they had WMD's. The world is much wiser and anyone who still believes Iraq was justified need there ass's kicked! The blood of our dead soldiers and the mess we are in today is on the hands of all those repukes who voted for Bush!

Bend over so that I can kick you with my Combat Boot. Iraq. H.R. 4655, 1998, "Regime Change", Declaration of current War at Iraq. First, US Military Operation current War at Iraq, Desert Fox, December 1998. And this speech, you think President Bush was smart enough to come up with the WMD crap.

"Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world," and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again" - President Clinton.

Ok, we get out of Iraq, expect $8 per gallon gasoline. Can you say Iraqis Northern and Southern Oil Fields and "Oil Laundrying" by Mexico, Canada, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, etc. buying Iraqis Oil for $4 per barrel and selling to US at huge profit, ever since the Food for Oil Programs (pre first Gulf War). DON'T Drive, DON'T use petroleum based plastic products.

York4174 - AND YOU WENT TO WAR BECAUSE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ!

Iraq. H.R. 4655, 1998, "Regime Change", Declaration of current War at Iraq. First, US Military Operation current War at Iraq, Desert Fox, December 1998. And this speech, you think President Bush was smart enough to come up with the WMD crap. Stop being a troll I told you this before.

George-295538 - Bush had goals and policies in Afghanistan

Yes, he let the US Military take care of it. Also if you have not figured it out yet, if we take out Osama (known sick and dying old man), don't you think that we trained them to have a chain of command, in that they will just replace him with a smarter younger stronger proven hater of the US, we trained them to form self sustaining Guerrilla Warfare Cells, just like we trained the Iraqis during the Iran Iraq Wars, just incase the Iranians won and overran Iraq. And you thought Iraq was over with.

Bill Carson - The big winner of the Iraq war is Iran.

My question to President Obama during the Town Hall, March 2009, What are you going to do about the Chinese "Sphere of Influence" in Iraq & Iran when we leave Iraq. How will we hold on to the Oil from the Northern and Southern Iraqis Oil Fields w/o the Chinese buying all of it, resulting in $8 per gallon at US.

Nobody-87413 - At least NOW we have a leader who listens to the Generals on the ground and acts on there advice, insted of his own experience,,,

Wrong he listens to the Political leaders. Realize that when you become a General or Admiral you are essentially a Politician, most of your time is pertaining to Political Matter, not US Military. Also it was realized since the end of the "Cold War" (1959-1990) that the Wars of the Future would be Guerrilla Warfare, most of the current Generals and Admirals did not agree and during the President Clinton Reduction In Forces these were the first ones that were cut to the bone. Since it takes so long to train a Special Operator (15 years or more), Special Operations has not recovered and were even pulling people "off the streets" (new recruits, no experience, no maturity, and getting us killed), and pulling back us "old men" (experience and maturity) from Retirement, RIFs, etc. especially after they realized their mistakes about lack of maturity and (operational) experience in the Patrick Tillman Friendly Fire.

Garyone - I see the Repubs are still into nation building...I am glad to see Obama knows nation building is not the responsibility of the U.S. It has cost my grandchildren an enormous amount knowing the debts they have to pay for nation building in Iraq.

Do you realize that when we downsize Iraq, that the Government Owned factories that build US Military Equipment will also downsize (layoff) the number of US Civilians needed. And less Oil from the Northern and Southern Iraqis Oil Fields. What cost your grandchildren are these Trillions of USD going to the bonuses of these VP Biden Constiutents: (List from September 2008) Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, Wachovia, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ISDA, and those States with Corporations Incorporated at Delaware.

Especially, ISDA. The People that brought you: the 60 to 100 Trillion USD (it is not 700 Billion USD US Economic Crisis) Global Economic Crisis. These people will be back for more just like GM, Ford, Chysler, September 2008, 25 Billion, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, to milk the cash cow. updated add: AIG, 85 Billion USD. The 60 to 100 Trillion USD does not include the usary interest protected by the Delaware Court of Chancery.

The US Military is 4% of US GNP. With a mandate of 10% reduction and Barney Frank wanting 25% reduction. The effect this will have on the US Economy is as indicated by CBS Evening News, March 25,2009,

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/25/eveningnews/main4893248.shtml?source=search_story

economics101 - Bill, your quote nailed it. War is poor men dying and rich men profiting.

That is why we in the US Military (professionals, doing over 15 years) hate war, the Politicians screw up doing their job. And we have to clean up their mess or die trying.

HRDawg BRAVO! The fact that there was a debate at all puts this administration light-years ahead of the last.

Yeah, right the debate goes like this, you shut up and listen. Don't believe it ask General Jones about wanting to send tens of thousands of marines and getting shot down (Conventional Warfare Mentality), for good reason.

Question sent to Whitehouse.gov during the "Town Hall", March 2009:

CINC. Do you know the difference between "Conventional Warfare" (Iraq) & "Guerrilla Warfare" (Afghanistan,Muhajeen, trained by US Vietnam Vets) against the USSR Elite Conventional Forces (over 101 Divisions,10% USSR GNP) w/thousands in body bags returning to the USSR in the first years. It was too late when they sent in their Spetnaz, the USSR National Will to Fight was gone (an objective of Guerrilla Warfare).

Brad O'Neill - We need nation building.

And you can tell from the other posts that most of these people do not even know about Senator Charles Wilson and our early involvement in Afghanistan and what happened afterwards (no Nation rebuilding, allowing the rise of the Taliban). So now with the Policy shift, my boys and my work for years here are undone in weeks (like the school that we helped the villagers build, funded by passing the hat around with my boys (I am their "Old Man", I consider them my "Sons" and family), I teach the Afghan children between Missions, we live with the Afghans not on some FOB. Do you know how long it takes to gain the trust of the Afghan people, think how long it would be if someone moved in next door to you and only spoke broken english and looked different. All of you come on tell the truth, how long would it be before you REALLY trust them with your life. Same thing here. The worse part of this is when the Politicos arrive and prove to the Afghan people who have nothing, that the Taliban were correct, when the Afghan people see how extravigant, glutonous, and excessive the Americans live. How this is going to effect us, when they establish stupid policies that will get us killed like in Somalia. Next they will have us catch and release the Hamas import fighters (sent to Afghanistan in exchange for ChiCom weapons to be sent to Palestine Hamas Warlords by Iran), Al Quada, etc., after we disarm them.

Most of these people posting here do not even know the difference between Arabs, Persians, Kurdistanis. Example: Believing that Kurdistanis (aka Kurds) are Iraqis, and not Kurdistanis, whose country was dissolved by the UN Treaty of Luasanne, and became armed allies of Iran when Iran promised to reestablish Kurdistan (Northern Iraq, Southern Turkey, Part of Syria) if the Kurdistanis would fight against the Iraqis during the Iran Iraq Wars.

Question I did not ask during Whitehouse "Town Hall": Will the US stop the "Oil Laundrying" by Mexico, Canada, Saudia Arabia, Kuwait. In that they are buying Iraqis Oil for $4 per barrel and selling it at huge profits to the US. This has been going on since the US Sanctions and Embargos, and Food For Oil Programs that eventually lead to the Iraqis Parlement to authorize the invasion of Kuwait to end the corruption while the Iraqis starved. As a result the US became involved with the "Liberation of Kuwait", reallowing this Oil Laundrying" to continue. And afterwards the law, H.R. 4655 being passed as the Declaration of the current War at Iraq, "Regime Change", 1998.

Posted on a different forum:

Well, those are the solutions to the causes of the current problems and why the rest of the world hates us (different topic, different solutions). Many of these topics are now being picked up by the media. example: Defense Cuts, F-22 "Raptor", impact on nationwide economy (jobs), CBS Evening News. Alternative Energy (Europe since 1945). Mass Transit (Europe since 1939). Health care (Universal, Europe since 1945).

As a note: It can be said based on current events that we are heading toward Totalitarism. I have seen too many "coincidences" since the 1980s, and "Social Engineering" Programs. Some of the "coincidences" are now depicted in the book written by Naomi Wolf, "The End of America", now a movie: http://www.endofamericamovie.com/

Oh Great! Obama is going to give money to Pakistan and they will do the same thing as the N. Korean did. They will take our money and in a few years, they will threaten us with nuclear weapons. How dumb is this administration? We cannot afford to pay every country so they can be our friends.

errata to #1.49.

And afterwards the law, H.R. 4655 being passed as the Declaration of the current War at Iraq, "Regime Change", 1998.

Add: This was as a result of the Iraqis taking away control of the Northern and Southern Oil Fields from the Oil Corporations and "Nationalizing" their Oil assets. Just like pre 9/11 Venezula's Nationalization of their Oil Assets, after a failed Civil War traced back to the US Oil Corporations instigating the Civil War (using "Jackals"). The Nationalization of these assets prevent the US Oil Corporations from "Oil Dumping" (to increase the costs by decreasing supply, resulting in pollution worse than the Exxon Valdez), no profits to the local economy, local slave labor, etc.. The loss of pre 9/11 Venezula Oil was 2/3 of US Daily Oil Supply add to this Congress' refusal of Oil Exploration of the Northern Arctic Reserve, there is your real justification for the current War at Iraq. Don't like the truth, don't drive, don't use petroleum based plastics, electricity from Oil Buring Electric Power Plants, etc..

What do you think the whole Georgia, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Russian thing was about. It was not the Russians that were the bad guys. Georgia was exploiting South Ossetia, Abkhazia for their Oil Resources and building up their Military with Russian Weapons while letting South Ossetia and Abkhazia starve. When South Ossetia and Abkhazia peacefully protested the Georgian Military was sent in and used "deadly force", and to teach them a lesson they started raping, pillaging, looting and eventually genocide (Georgians, Ossetians, Abkhazians are different ethnic backgrounds). The Russians went in and ended this disruption of Oil flow by destroying the Russian supplied Military Equipment of all sides. With this said, now you can see for yourself how the current US Media is censored, another example of censorship and monitoring of US Media and Information access is youtube.com, "not available in your region", under H.R. 1955 and S.1959, with ISPs providing US Government Agencies your attempts to access the information, same thing that works for the Chinese Government.

If our government really wanted to get serious about Afghanistan we need to get the "people" of Afghanistan behind us. Right now, we are their enemies because we harass and threaten their poppy production which is the main source of income. The Taliban, on the other hand buy their product and manufacture heroin to fuel their war efforts. We need to offer the Afghan farmers more money than the Taliban currently pay for the poppy harvest and then we need to offer to double it if they convert to crops for food instead of poppy for heroin. If they want to grow poppy let them. We buy it and burn it thereby cutting the Taliban's money supply off and eliminating a huge source of poppy for heroin effectively eliminating two problems at one time. The ones that won't sell to us get their fields eradicated so nothing will grow. The ones that choose to sell to us get protection from the Taliban. The crops produced can bu used to feed the Afghan population and/or to feed other 3rd world nations. Too simple I guess for our government to figure out...

York...

So after just 60-days of fire you are already whining about the hate from the right?

First - for most of us it's not hate, it is shock that this idiot could be so brazen and irresponsible so quickly,

Second - you little dems wrote the book on hate for hates sake - the treatment Bush endured for 8 years, the last two with your party in control and during which things really went to hell is truly HISTORIC.

Get ready for a very rough ride because your guy is everything and more than we could have hoped for - a total narcissist, double-talking bald faced liar - it's truly fantastic if not tragic as he is running our country into the ground at lightening speed.

If our government really wanted to get serious about Afghanistan we need to get the "people" of Afghanistan behind us. Right now, we are their enemies because we harass and threaten their poppy production which is the main source of income. The Taliban, on the other hand buy their product and manufacture heroin to fuel their war efforts. We need to offer the Afghan farmers more money than the Taliban currently pay for the poppy harvest and then we need to offer to double it if they convert to crops for food instead of poppy for heroin. If they want to grow poppy let them. We buy it and burn it thereby cutting the Taliban's money supply off and eliminating a huge source of poppy for heroin effectively eliminating two problems at one time. The ones that won't sell to us get their fields eradicated so nothing will grow. The ones that choose to sell to us get protection from the Taliban. The crops produced can bu used to feed the Afghan population and/or to feed other 3rd world nations. Too simple I guess for our government to figure out...

"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy."
– Henry A. Kissinger, quoted by Monika Jensen-Stevenson, Kiss the Boys Goodbye, Dutton, 1990, Page 97, citing The Final Days, Woodward "

Gee.........do ya think ole Henry might a been referring to Vietnam; or maybe some other future Quagmire such as Iraq;or Afghanistan????....uugghh....eerrrhh...d'oh!!!

Couple of points here:

1. Al Queda is a creation of the CIA. the Taliban and Osama are all part of the Mujahadeen that came to fight a holy war against the Soviets with US involvement via Pakistan. We created the Taliban when we tried to stiff them after getting the Soviets out. Al Queda was created to give a name to many groups of fundamentalist muslims seeking to attack the western world. There is little or no intelligence that links these groups together, nor that the Pakistani government ceased being a conduit for money and arms to the mujahadeen.

2. Contrary to popular CIA misinformation, the height of poppy production is actaully right now (2008). Opium production has been rising steadily under US "occupation" to provide 90% of the world supply. The claim that the Taliban is behind the Opium production is also difficult to support, since before 2001 the Taliban ran a very effective eradication program which is in line with their fundamentalist views. The began the eradication to combat the massive increase in opium production once the Soviets were defeated, again under CIA/Pakistani guidance. The long history of the CIA with drug traficking is well established.

3. The real importance of Afghanistan has nothing to do with Opium, the Taliban or Al Queda. The reason the Soviets were there, and why we are there still is that it is the most viable route for a pipeline from The Central Asian Energy fields to the ice Free Indian Ocen. Our appointee president of Afghanistan was actually the main consultant to the pipeline builders before returing to Afghanistan.

As long as we continue to fight wars to enhance or create business opportunities for corporations or the wealthy elites we are always going to lose. We can't win the war in Afghanistan because we don't really know why we are there .... These "leaders" talk about freedom, nation building, winning hearts and minds - does anyone actually buy this nonsense. These wars are about money, and utlimately power. Russian and Western Energy companies, banks, investment firms have invested Trillions in the energy business in Central Asia - do you thing a bunch of camel jockeys waving the Quoran are going to get in their way? How about you and your kids?

There have been some good wars to fight in the last 20 years - Sudan, Rwanda, Liberia, Congo, Burma, Indonesia, etc ... These were wars about freedom, nation building, protecting the innocent - We haven't been in any of them - cause they didn't have what our leaders need for a "good" war - profit. Keep believing the "experts on CNN or Fox if you like, but you can't figure out the how to win this war without the "why" ....

One of the few points on which I agreed with then Sen. Obama during the campaign was on his plan to shift the emphasis of our anti-terrorism actions to Afghanistan from war in Iraq (which war, just to be clear, I opposed from the beginning, when most of the electorate was gung-ho to get in - Bush didn't "lie", the American people just chose not to think, because everything that has happened in Iraq was entirely predictable). Now, however, I find myself concerned. In any situation, there is a right way, a wrong way, and a "consensus way". A "consensus" approach is virtually guaranteed to yield the worst of all possible results. Even a bad decision, after all, has the beneficial effect of clearing up the doubt and pointing to the correct resolution, but a "consensus" approach has a life entirely divorced from both its original purpose and its ultimate results. It is maintaining the "consensus" which becomes the actual goal, not achieving the real and original goal. Nowhere is that more true than in war. Unfortunately, Pres. Obama's background is heavy on the whole "consensus building" notion - it's what "community action leaders" do, but it is not leadership. The only reason to put more troops into Afghanistan is if you intend to give them guns. Putting them in, to satisfy one constituency, but directing them to training and "civic action", in order to satisfy a different constituency, simply means that you will end up with more targets and fewer fighters and you will lose, especially if it becomes a war of attrition (think "Vietnam"). That, I predict, is where we are heading and the President needs to accept that he got about as much of an electoral mandate as anyone is ever going to get and he needs to use that to actually lead, not "facilitate".

P E O P L E… W E D O N ’ T H A V E M O N E Y F O R T H I S.

What is it gong to take to understand this…people in our own streets killing each other for a loaf of bread???

More money? From where? We have legal citizens losing their homes and standing in food lines.

If you are going to keep smashing your thumb with a hammer, eventually it’s going to go beyond broken. You’re going to take the thing off. The thumb is money, the hammer is everybody and their dog spending what we now don’t have!

Wake up! The hammer has taken the thumb off and is now going for the whole hand!!

It is just another distraction for the weak minded people who voted for and continue to support obama and the power hungry elite in congress. Watch the other hand as he pushes legislation to enslave future generations, move your jobs to foreign countries in the name of the BS global warming, put gitmo terrorist in your public housing, and gives amnesty to the illegal alien gang members and drug dealers. all obama is doing is stepping on the gas and taking this country down the bush highway to european socialism at an alarming rate of speed. The europeans are yelling at us that the bridge is out and all you want to do is listen to the pied piper as he sings his BS.

WAKE UP!!!!!!

John, your assessment was actually the original one made back when a strategy was being discussed after the initial rout of the Taliban/ AQ occupation.

Without Pakistan allowing missions on or near the border to deny sanctuary to the Taliban/ insurgents/ AQ/ radical Islamists (I have yet to see an official definition yet) there is no way this will or can be called a war. It is an attempt to isolate Afghanistan and that will be impossible given the Iranian position which they have been more than happy to show in IQ.

John,

Thanks for your service. I have grave concerns over dumBHO's grade-school mentality when it comes to the world and especially our military. Cover and concealment my friend...cover and concealment :)

If President Obama has a grade school mentality that would put Mr. Bush in pre-K.

Smart voter is grievously mis-named; I think everyone - except for him - realizes that kicking ass does not work in Afghanistan - will not work and has never worked. Read about the glorious English rout of the mid 19th century and educate yourself.

The Ruskies talked tough too...for 10 years...what did they accomplish?

oh crap...I fergot..this time around the MESSIAH is speaking!

Seek help on your Bush fetish Parnell, he's gone and the lib's messiah...dumBHO...is in. As to the rout, so what! Anyone who has read or dealt with the cultures in the middle east knows, and still sees, that their paradigm is "strength is power".

A$$ kicking only works when it is precision in nature and minimizes collateral damage. We had a situation here (Iraq) where a deaf woman was shot near a check point. It might have not violated any laws but tell that to her family.Every innocent shot by mistake is 5 or 10 potential enemies made (or more). I'm all for taking on the Taliban and al-Queda but we don't need to engage the entire Muslim world (yet) to do it.

Cookie, let me hear something from some smart people other then four letter words.

John 385319 Thank you for your service to our country and you insight :)

John - Why were you in Iraq and Afghanistan for 40 months? What was your job? Were you in the military? Are you still in the military?

Please refer to post # 1.22

John - I have been in a military family almost my entire life. For a member of the U S Armed Forces to call his/her Commander in Chief "LIAR IN CHIEF" or "Oshama" is, in my opinion, unconscionable. Times sure have changed. There is no respect for authority anymore. I guess that's why it's fine in this country for Rush Limbaugh to say he hopes the President fails and he is not universally condemned and repudiated. I guess that’s why our young people feel no shame when they disrespect the police and their teachers and principals.

York Thank you for this very direct message. I agree completely. People like Limbaugh and Hannity etc seem to spew so much hate and for some reason it seems that their example encourages others to behave the same way. This attitude cannot do anything positive for our country and our future.

York and wildcat,

I am just curious. Were you upset with the hate and disrespect that came from groups like MoveOn and Code Pink etc? How about the hate from Michael Moore. Maybe all the comments about Bush being "stupid" were really just terms of endearment? (BTW, I am not a Bush supporter so please don't lump me there).

There is no respect for authority anymore.

I guess it was respect for the millitary and the law when people during the Vietnam war threw feces and urine and spit on returning troops. How about when the police were called "pigs"? Was that respect? How about the left saying that Bush was not the president because of Florida? Seems to me that you are either very young and have no knowledge of history or have a very selective memory.

phantom - I agree with you. Neither political is above the other - they both are reflections of who we are as a people. As for President Bush, I still respect him as a courageous human being. I just wish he had moderated that strength with wisdom. He also seemed almost paralyzed toward the end of his administration. I think his association with Dick Chaney was a disaster. The far right was responsible for putting Dick Chaney on the ticket (just like they put Governor Palin on the last ticket.) Now they want him to shut-up and go away.

I've never, ever disrespected a member of the US Armed Forces. I've seen some behave very disrespectfully toward authority. I've even seen some act like they were crazy (I'm talking about in real life, not on this blog). Some shouldn't be there, but I guess that, if you spend an average of $60,000 to recruit just one, you have to keep them as long as possible.

I've never called a police officer a pig. I do regret that the Supreme Court gave the election to George W. Bush, but, just like Al Gore, I accepted him as my president and I hope I gave him a fair chance.

Questions for you: How do you feel about a member of the US Armed Forces calling his/her Commander in Chief things like LIAR IN CHIEF and Oshama? How do you feel about Rush Limbaugh saying he hopes the President fails? How do you feel about the Republican leadership supporting this statement rather than condemning and repudiating it?

Another Dumb American opinion. Stop knocking Obama. He's your Boy only carrying out the policy put in place by your Ignorance.

FYI. Saddam Hussein loved blondes, Italian shoes and suits and European methods which is why the Baathists were secular. Your Idiot overthrew him and caused instability in a sensitive area. The Hussein's, Assad's and Mubarak's have no wish to have Al Qaida win. But leave it to you Dummies calling yourselves 'Conservatives' you help prove Osama bin Laden right everyday which in turns fuels the insurgency.

Only moderate Europeanised Arabs can defeat Islamist but they need America to prove Al Qaida wrong which idiots like you show he is right.

If you had the ability to be objective, you would see that Islam has a lot to offer American men who have been treated unfairly by the courts and the Feminist movement. That Islamists are well aware of this and will use the ideal family lifestyle to beautiful and docile appearing Muslim women as a lure especially when the USA goes down in defeat in Afghanistan.

We cannot win this war because Afghanistan is not worth fighting for. It will only spread into Pakistan which the Taliban are now ready to topple and then what? it will be your fault not Obama's. He's just a Minstrel continuing the policies of a stupid nation.

You don't even have the knowledge of your enemies and are victims of your delusions of racist supremacy to where the Arabs cannot possibly defeat you. Afghanistan is landlocked. Do you understand? The Soviet Union bordered the country and didn't win. Now here your stupid generals have to ask Russia for permission to fly supplies in. This is a recipe for disaster and will only cause more moderate Arabs and Muslims to believe Osama bin laden was telling the truth about US' intent.

None of you are anxious to fight because i don't see any lines outside of Recruiting Offices. You don't want to pay for the war either. You Conservatives need to go somewhere and shut-up because the disaster of this war and the economy is YOUR fault. Hypocrites. For years you have been talking about taking personal responsibility and professional accountablility until its time for you to do so. This is your Fault.

I'm more afraid of the dumbasses here than the Taliban. That includes the false soldier posts. What happens to all of us if Obama Fails. By the way, the Russians are building 6 new nuclear subs while you guys want our country to fail.

York.....they let you back in after being censored. I have to hand it to you...you are the one true constant in an ever changing world. Same old dribble out the side of your mouth. Questioning John(we truly thank you for your service John) as a "person" who comes from a military family but not having served yourself is reaching below the bottom of the barrel. What do you think the dems in Congress did the last 7 years? Murtha? Kerry? All veterans themselves daily ripping apart the commander in chief at the time all the while encouraging the enemy to continue the fight and killing our troops. DeJaVu Vietnam. If Bush would have sent 4000 additional troops.......no....wait a minute...strike that last comment, Bush wouldnt have sent social workers( and from KingOs mouth last but not least included in the 4k) and lawyers.Of all people..LAWYERS!!! How stupid is that?

John ...good for you not taking the bait.

Bob - Thank you for following my comments so closely. My dribble out of the side of my mouth has obviously gotten your attention. Also, thank you for saying that I'm a "true constant." I hope I am.

As for baiting John, I leave that up to those who read our comments. I thought the questions I asked were pretty straight-forward. Are for you saying that on this blog I don't have the right to question a member of the US Armed Forces who speaks so disrespectfully of his boss - do you talk about your boss like that? You don't have to reply, I already know the answer. Honor and loyalty aren't everybody's cup of tea.

yYou only know what Limbaugh tells you and limbaugh tells you what the repuke party wants you to hear, wake up loser,

Who attacked us on 9/11?

Why were we attacked?

Why did Bush pull troops out of saudi arabia?

Where is Osoma today?

Where did our oney go in the last 8 years?

You know the answers to these questions, deep down you know the truth, but you cant seem to get your head out of your ass, to get you ears away from the right wing propagandist like Rush Limbaugh and fox news!

there is no great liberal take over going on here, I do not listen to any propagandist news radio show, I dont forsake myself to be part of a hard political party!

I know what I know because I listen to all sides, I wait for the results from more then one media sorce, and I make up my own mind to what has happened.

You need to listen carefuly and listen often, you see the right wing controls the media more then you think, for example, there were NO WMD's IN IRAQ, how much news play did that get huh, perhaps the largest blunder in history to accuse, invade and occupy a country on a accusation that was wrong!

Now someone gets a bonus check of a million bucks and its all over the media for 2 weeks! how much bonus money did Cheaney get from Haliburton?Try about 10 more then the total money given oiut in bonuses by AIG thats for sure!

Wake up or shut up!

Obama inherited a foreign policy mess along with a fiscal mess. He has the Middle east dispute with Israel and the Palestinians, Iran and for that matter North Korea with there Nuclear ambitions, Russia and China who he needs to in his corner to deal wiith the previous countries and many other issues. Iraq and Afghanistan only complicate everything more. As much as the Bush/ Cheney Administration may have started and contributed to all of the above, the Democrats cannot wash there hands of some of this. The Blame game only works for so long. Its time for all to sit at the table and act like the adults their supposed to be and not the kindergardners that they act like. Throwing stones at each other does no one no good and only prolongs the mess were in. As Albert Einstein said,"

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level
of thinking we were at when we created them."

It doesn't matter who wants Obama to fail he has already failed on multiple levels and will continue to fail. His incompetence makes Bush look like a Mensa chapter president.

Rush and Sean do not spew hate listen to them sometime. They have a concern for the direction this country is heading in and they like to poke fun at politicians very much in the same vein as John Stewart. Why don't we hear John Stewart being called a hate monger he spews stuff more venomous than Rush or Sean.

OK, I heard the statement that Rush Limbaugh made and he never said he wanted President Obama to fail just wanted some of his policies that he didn't agree with to fail. Now I don't like Limbaugh and don't agree with a lot of what he says but I don't believe any true American wants any president to fail, after all this is our country also. President Bush had lots of bad ideas and advise but President Obama is falling into a lot of the same traps (really try listening to him) but thinks he can just solve it with money and I mean huge amounts of money. Things he wants to try have already failed in European countries (before you yell try some research). All these riots in France, England etc aren't all about soccer games. Come on Americans try some personal research and thinking for yourself. We have always been a country that people are trying to come to but things are beginning to turn and lots are wanting to leave so that must tell you something.

York4174....

You said "I guess that's why it's fine in this country for Rush Limbaugh to say he hopes the President fails"

I'm curious about on 9/11/2001, at the exact time the towers were being impacted with terrorist controlled planes, when James Carville (former Democrat strategist in the Clinton admin.) said " he hoped Bush failed"?

What you thoughts are on that? I'm guessing you're only concerned about quotes and facts when they support you point of view and ignore other like comments your own damn party makes. Disgusting double-standard you share with your lemming cohorts !!!

Pull you head out of the sand !!!

Smart Voter - Say what? A Democrat said he hoped President Bush failed on 9/11/01 and you haven't made us eat it for years?! I don't believe you. Prove it.

You know what. I've never in my life wished for my President to fail. But I honestly don't know how I will feel if a Republican ever returns to the White House. I think this is just another example how you folks are radicalizing our politics. Friend, I hate to see this happening. This stuff stinks.

York - I'm a bigger lefty than Sandy Koufax and you seem like a thoughtful person. Respectful exchange of ideas is good for all or as Ali G would say, "Respektful."

Okay, I found this on Wikipidia: "I don’t care if people like him or not, just so they don’t vote for him and his party. That is all I care about. I hope he doesn’t succeed, but I am a partisan democrat. But the average person wants him to succeed. It is his country, his life or their lives. So he has that going for him." There is no date indicated.

If he was talking about President Bush succeeding in being elected - cool. If he was talking about him succeeding as President - I condemn his statement and repudiate it. (Of course you knew I would say that.) I think it's a ludicrous and un-American thought.

York.... You're a lost cause it seems. You use the term "radicalizing" to describe Republicans (I consider myself a conservative) and there is no one ever more radical than who's at the helm at present and a majority of his cabinet.

And frankly, I don't care if you believe me or not on the Carville thing. It was said, on 9/11/2001 and many have been questioned about it with no one that was present that day denyed it. I'm just saying be careful about slamming Rush for example when your own kind has done the same damn think. It is hypocritical and you know it.

Smart Voter - Fair enough. Thank you. Peace.

John-385319 - only more correct than these people want to believe. Most of these posters have never been here. Nor do they know why the US Contractors even started after the President Clinton Reduction In Forces, resulting in the US Military losing its "in house" capabilities of Logistics, Food Service, Water Purification, Transportation, HUMIT (Human Intelligence), Training, Special Warfare, VIP Protection, etc.. You can guess where I am here, maybe even know who I am (don't post it here). Don't listen to idiots like Cookie-550686 who tell you to STFU, you earned your citizenship, while cookie-550686 just gives away Constitutional Rights without a wimper, like March 2009 H.R. 1955 and S.1959. Bring Cookie-550686 with you next time you come here. LOL.

Cookie-550686, like I said before, come over here with your friends and replace me and my boys. That would be a REAL CHANGE. I really believe that all those "Wall Street" appointees are really "smart" (only for their own greed).

Don't expect us to do a "Recapture Recovery" Operation to get you back, before they cut off your arms and legs, while keeping you alive, like they do to the Red Cressant Aid Workers under Sharia Law.

York4174 - John - I have been in a military family almost my entire life.

So what that is NOT YOU. Volunteer, eventhough you would probably wimp out (cannot make it) of inital training.

Eric-289829 my Vietnam Veteran peer on loan to an Alphabet Agency, trained (Viet Cong Guerrilla Warfare) the Muhajeen to do infiltration and exfiltration to and from Pakistan and Afghanistan against the USSR, who using "Conventional Warfare" established Bases of Operation (sitting ducks) to hold the ground. The final result was the USSR Elite Conventional Forces losing thousands in the first years. The USSR at the time had over 101 Divisions and were spending over 10% of the USSR GNP. Currently the US is spending 4% of US GNP on US Military. He was RIFed (no retirement) during the President Clinton Reduction In Forces, when asked to be recalled, he told them to "f" off, and went to Canada.

Fred G. from N.C. - A$$ kicking only works when it is precision in nature and minimizes collateral damage.

Correct this is a part of Guerrilla Warfare. If you don't minimize collateral damage, it incites more to join the opposition as insurgents and also increases local support against your forces. The USSR leveled (destroyed) entire villages with the result being the exponental grown of the Muhajeen.

add to 2.35,

And those using Guerrilla Warfare inticing their Conventional Warfare enemy to anger everyone with collateral damage. Example: Sniper sneeks into innocent village and shoots at enemy. Conventional Warfare Enemy response bomb the village. Result more recruits from neighboring villages after hearing about the massacre of innocent villagers.

Update to 2.35

He was RIFed (no retirement) during the President Clinton Reduction In Forces, when asked to be recalled, he told them to "f" off, and went to Canada.

He left Canada and went to Mexico after the Canadian Military were pressuring him to join the Canadian Special Warfare and go to Southern Afghanistan.

York,

Questions for you: How do you feel about a member of the US Armed Forces calling his/her Commander in Chief things like LIAR IN CHIEF and Oshama? How do you feel about Rush Limbaugh saying he hopes the President fails? How do you feel about the Republican leadership supporting this statement rather than condemning and repudiating it?

I do not believe that any military member should openly disrespect his superior officer. Having said that not ever superior officer is deserving of respect (however, their rank does deserve respect). Not every member of the military is deserving of respect just like not every civilian or police officer or firefighter is deserving of respect. There are "bad apples" in every group. A military member can be disrespectful of their superiors as long as they do it quietly and within their own personal group of like ranked persons. (ie enlisted can complain about officers and lower ranking officers can complain among themselves about superior officers)

Re Rush. That comment was about wanting President Obama's POLICIES to fail. I do not see what the issue is. Why would anyone want someone to succeed if they disagreed with the policy? If you are pro-choice, would you want any president who was pro-life to succeed in getting rid of Roe v Wade? If you are pro 2nd amendment would you want any president to succeed in getting rid of guns? I hope that ANY president (Rep or Dem) fails if they try to do something that I disagree with. Period.

Did the leaders of the Democratic party want President Bush to succeed in Iraq? I think any objective reading of recent history would be no. How many times did we all read that "they support the troops but not the policy'? Is that not wanting the policy to fail? Is that not what Rush said also.

Hey Cookie..... It is so easy to blame Bush, but answer this, "Who's been in the majority in Congress since 2006?" The Democratically controlled house (Since 2006).

Put your MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC,NYTimes talking points aside and do a little research so you know what the hell you're talking about, you dolt.

Cookie... Your boy has proposed to double then triple the deficit in the next 5-10 yrs.... and your explanation for that? No more Bush excuses on over spending....... You've far eclipsed what Bush ever did and in only a couple of months!

And heaven forbid something were to happen to us as in another attack, what will your excuse be then? If you think anyone is afraid of this paper tiger Obama, you'd better think again.

I'll take responsibility, some CEO's were corrupt, some businesses over levereged, that doesn't mean you attack all business and all CEO's, etc. Capitalism is and remains the answer, it is the method for the most people to prosper in any country, not socialism. Socialism will reduce our standard of living and run us into enormous debt.

Your turn to take some responsibility. You're in charge, you have a Dem. controlled congress and all of their proposals suck.

I'm guessing you like the idea of releasing Gitmo detainees in the US and providing financial assistance for them to re-start their lives. How pathetic. I hope one moves into your neighborhood. Sleep well.

And last, I love how you say let's not call names and then you call me a f-ing moron in the same short sentence. I guess that speaks volumes about you now doesn't it?

Cookie..... One more for you......

One the education front and underfunding..... I know for a fact several counties in Florida where the boards of education get more funding than the entire county.

Imagine counties that provide police, fire, ambulance, water, sewer, storm drainage, emergency preparedness, etc. all get less funding than one board of education.

The gross over-simplification that education is underfunded is a farce. I agree teachers salaries need to maybe be looked at, but this doesn't correlate in to underfunding of education. It correlates into mis-management of the dollars they have to work with. teachers salaries need to be performance based and not on tenure.

If the powerful teacher's union had a clue, they would pressure the School Boards and Superintendents for better cirriculum and salaries and stop whining to the tax payers for more and more money. We've thrown good money after bad at education and money isn't the issue, their results are pathetic.

Obama talks a big mean tough game, but he said much of nothing, without heeding the advice of the ground force commanders.

Golbug, I too have had my fill of his blame game of the past administration.

If not well consistantly. What the H*ll does this Putz of President know about military actions, conflicts, wars, heck isn't he the one who told us terrorism was a harsh word for these guys. Isn't it his administration that said they would close GITMO without a plan and now we learn these terrorist could be released in our back yard, and we have to give them money to survive. This Putz needs to let the people who know what they are doing do it and stay out of the way, go hide in the kids swingset.

O

This will be Obama's "Vietnam" and he will not have Bush to blame. The war strategy should be left to the military commanders and NOT with the politicians. Will history repeat itself????? During his mouthy campaign speeches, he criticize Bush for not having an exit strategy. What is Obama's exit strategy?????

Please refer to post # 1.22

What do any of you know about justice for 9/11, hey who attacked us again and why? Do you just take the word of the theives ripping you off or do you actually take the time to get informed.

MMM go open a history book and read what was going on wile you were to busy listening about what Clinton was screwing.

Yes there were attacks by Osoma, he wanted us of Saudi Soil "his holy land," your wonderful repuke party seen 9/11 with dallor signs in there eyes, wile your fellow Americans were dying!

So Bush pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia, (just what Osoma wanted) and then he tells America to not talk about Osoma to forget about him. WTF

You fools you morons, all you do is @!$%# about Liberals wile you let justice for 9/11 slip away you know nothing about war, you just want to relive the end ww2. well I got news for ya there is no honor in what you have allowed the repuke party to do to our country to our sons and daghters, and to our economy, this mess is your fault and my only happiness is to say we told you so! wile all you could say was (YOU RAE LIBERAL SHUT UP YOU DONT SUPPORT OUR TROOPS)

Well go eat yoru crow because this trashed economy is coming you way and tha will be thats left for you to eat!

sounds like you can tell the future where do you get those Crystal balls.

York buddy.

I am self employed and funding 52% of the population in govt work. No need for you to say thanks. Your welcome!

John, he made over 500 promises to get elected. He started by breaking the oath to office when he locked up his proof of eligibility. Just another lie.

Just keep obsessing about the birth certificate. That's a good plan. You should be happy there's someone with a connection to objective reality running things.

Parnell, really!?

Hey, Parnell, what is "objective reality", isn't that an oxymoron since reality can not be subjective by definition, if it is it becomes an opinion. But I did like the fog factor you threw in, the more syllables the more confusing your arguement. Nice job. Lets use a couple more big words, even if they don't make sense we might convince someone we know what we're talking about.

It depends on how deep you want to go about objective reality, ultimately, I'd have to agree with you that there is always a subjective element. In this particular instance I was referring to Obama's inclination to forms his notions according to facts, rather than the Bush/Cheney method of fitting facts into pre-conceived notions. By the way, your post was almost civil.

Hhahahahahaha OMG! Priceless!

the more syllables the more confusing your arguement. Nice job. Lets use a couple more big words, even if they don't make sense we might convince someone we know what we're talking about.

I have GOT to frame this quote...and I will certainly give the credit to you as well. This is the BEST description of BISHISM's I have ever read. He is the KING of making up words, adding -ified or -ification in efforts to make them bigger, and the worst of it, he tried to lead everyone to think they made sense. But, even he often started cracking-up after his sudden stupors in the middle of a speech.

It's pretty obvious repubs are still salty over Obama's win. Build a bridge and get over it... we had to after two elections with your Messiah. The bottom line is this...if we would have been focusing on the real enemies behind 9/11 from the start of all this BS, this seed would be about something else and let's face it, McGoofy would more than likely be president.

Please refer to post # 1.22

you won't hear about it ,all the bombs and rockets are more acurate now that Obama is in office ,they won't kill any civilians.

I am sure by full spring flowers will be popping of in the desert mountian areas according to our news media, Lets hope he grows some before he takes the first hit the media will rosey it up for him put the rest of the world will know and tell.

The "ROOKIE" will use his mouth to try to get himself off the hook. The SMART MOUTH Prez.

Please refer to post # 1.22

Chuck T

are you saying ....I know you are but what am I? YAWN talk about childish

Imagine if Bush actually wnet after osoma insted of letting he get away we would not be having this converstation nearly 8 years after 9/11

Obama is having to do what he is doing today because you "god" Bush decided to go for the money and Oil in Iraq then get justice for 9/11.

heres an idea open up googel earth and check out your house on it, you this technology on your home computer is just a fraction of what they can really do today!

Osamo and his al quiada buddies could be found and taken out nay dam time Bush wanted, but insted the intel get disoriented, and we are to not speak abotu Osoam and then all the news talks about for 8 years is Iraq, what a magic trick you have fallen for look one way wile they pull off the caper fo the centery the other way!

I say if you do not support justice for 9/11 then you are not a real American, you must be some kid of liberal hippy peice lover to forgive and forget about what happened on 9/11

is that waht you are a Liberal hippy pot smoking piece lover? Or do you want justi8ce for 9/11

Anti-Bush

Try using spellcheck. You might appear to be intelligent then.

No opium? What tradition will that support?

I agree with you Cat.

We're between a rock and a hard place. We know that if Afghanistan is abandoned it will revert back to a pre 9/11 nation (actually only 2 countries even recognized the Taliban as a nation). To make things worse, Pakistan is in a much weaker position today than it was in pre 9/11. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that Pakistan will also fall under the control of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. This is a nightmarish prospect.

Now, the flip side is for the US to lead a nation building exercise as we did in Iraq. I agree completely with Joe Biden on the potential for this becoming a quagmire.

So it seems to me that President Obama is taking a reasonable middle course. He is targeting the destruction of Al-Qaeda and providing enough military support to accomplish that, we hope. If the US has to make some alliances to accomplish our goals (in the same manner David Petraeus made with the Sunnis in Iraq) then I suspect that's what we will do. Some of you may call those deals Chicago style politics, but when one sleeps with dogs, he will get fleas.

CatTrax, you hit the nail on the head. All you have to do is read some of these posts to realize that the majority of the posters don't have a clue. They haven't read anything, have only heard what they wanted to hear, and dismiss facts faster than a snowball melts in an oven.

The dog with the fleas is in the oval office. Its so nice to have a constitutionally sound government to gain the trust of your allies not to mention the people.

From wikipedia: "it is estimated that al-Qaeda requires $30,000,000 USD per year to conduct its operations."

Where do you think they get that kind of money?

Stop the opium production and export, and you're halfway there.

Second step: stop giving your money to the Pakistanis, Egyptians and Arabs that now own all the gas stations in this country.

CatTrax,

You are exactly right the article clearly states Obama is doing exactly what the Ground Commanders are saying. These people don't let something like reading or facts get in the way of their hate and condemning. If they couldn't condemn then they would have to admit that they were wrong. It takes a big man to admit they were wrong, little boys can't do that.

Roger, I find it hard to believe that we're getting the "facts" from the MSM.

Cookie,
Is that man named Pelosi, Sneaker of the House? Surely you can't be talking about Obama. Nancy rules.

I don't remember Bush trying to make Afghanistan a nation in our image if I remember correctly,it didn't take our forces,with the help of the Afghany people long to break the power of the Taliban in Afghanistan, a lot of the reason military operations have been scaled back in Afghanistan is Pakistan not fully cooperating ,the U.S haven't been able to pursue the Taliban into Pakistan territory . Public sentiment right here in the good ol' U.S has slowed the efforts in Afghanistan too, if a raid on the Taliban resulted in collateral damage MSN CNN.. jumped all over it ,Bush was killing all Afghany's stop him! I doubt we will hear about any collateral damage under Obama . After all we aren't at war any more, it's just a contingency plan right?

enzelow, I agree on that! Just like the Korean War was a Policing Action.

Please refer to post # 1.22

Cat Good job. I often wonder the same thing re if people posting here even read the article they are responding to. You negative responders need to back up a little to try to evaluate if you are so hate filled that you can't even read an article and comprehend what it is saying. A lot of people posting here are so sarcastic and nasty with anything that relates to the President that I question if they are reading more than a word or two in any article they reference. If you truly care about our country, let go of the hate and focus on making things better. If you enjoy the hate so much, curl up with it and get out of the way of people working on making the future of the U S better.

got anything positive to offer this morning?

doug1961,

Yes Chuck T does have something positive to offer. Copy & paste, copy & paste, copy & paste, copy & paste.

Obama ought to read the CIA fact sheets on Vietnam and it's "Pacification Program". It didn't work then, and it's not going to work in Afghanistan. If POTUS doesn't learn from the past, then he is bound to repeat the past.

I was thinking the same thing but these Rush Limbaugh listenrs in here want to take every advantage they can to shoot down the only President who is actually trying to get some justice for 9/1, Id rather money be spent going after Osoma then given to the super rich repukes!

But they are masters of bull sh-t, master of word trickery and assumption manipulation, they dont have to lie directly, just say enough to make people assume the worst!

You have speak hard and loud to wake some people up, you know I have met people who think Saddom Huesain attacked us on 9/11

Some people do not have the strength to think for themselves, they beleive the forst theing they are told and they first person who tells it to them, they want take the time to add up what they are told and to listend carefully the actual words being spoken.

You just have to speak hard and wake em up, tell them to read a history book and to read mroe then one, then top make up there own mind!

But soe are just to lazy to read!

you need to read a spelling book.

anti bush-479970

Well I can guarantee you are too lazy to type. Most of your rantings are very hard to read due to such poor English and typing skills so most people don't read them.

and still has not stumbled upon spell-check

That moral bankruptcy is well entrenched in politics as well as the supreme court. It all started with one lie, that the sixteenth amendment was ratified when it was absolutely not. It has been a slow process of sneaking the hand of government incompetence and trickery into the cookiejar of the American dream.

look how much Bush paid the terrorist off already? He invaded iraq giving into there demands, he then let Osama get away.

Perhaps they have nukes and are threatenting to use them?

Or perhaps they are all in it together making billions of a "terrorist cold war" You know both side are working together to spread fear and hate in order to get the world to pay up to fight a ongoing never ending cold war?

mmmmmm

I think anti found the spell check. Even though, he still doesn't make sense. Blah, blah blah. Damn!

Cat, I totally agree...if we didn't live in the real world. The concept of "you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" sounds good on paper, but in the real world it doesn't fly. Could we play isolationist and survive? Sure...but at what cost?

One country attacking another for power and greed is as old as history. The US doesn't have to do anything but exist and it will be a target for terrorists and dictators. The strategy of dealing with these hostilities is one where we simply decide not to suffer attacks on our people and economic sector. There is no amount of isolation that will protect us and the only protection we have is through a strong group of allies. United we stand. Ask Neville Chamberlain.

I agree with most of your points Cat.

The problem though is this. After WWII the US was in a cold war with the USSR. The Middle East was simply one area in the world where we battled the Soviets for strategic control and influence. Thus, we propped up military dictators and puppet nations (with the assistance of the CIA) as long as they were anti-communists. That was really the only pre-requisite for US aid and support. Since the fall of the Shah and the later fall of the Soviet Union, the chickens have been coming home to roost.

Second, our deep and unwavering support of Israel puts the US in a moral position rather than a pragmatic, realpolitik one. As long as we support Israel and the division continues between Isarel and the Palestinians, we will have a Middle East problem.

And third. We need oil from the Middle East. We have an unquenchable thirst and addiction to oil in order to operate our economy and our lifestyle. Therefore, for now, we have no choice but to protect our self interests in the area.

With these items in mind, it seems to me that President Obama is making the right calls. End our dependence on foreign oil. Put the Israel-Palestinian issue to rest. Crush Al-Qaeda. Start building a diplomatic channel with Iran.

Anyone here got a better strategy?

Cat, they aren't trying to kill us because we walk on their "sacred" ground. It's an ideology that was rooted waaaaaaaaaaay before there was a United States of America. They want anyone dead who does not believe in their particular religion.

This ideology is no different than Hitler's view towards people of the Jewish faith. Only this time, there was a Republican President instead of FDR. That is the difference in how the war(s) have been covered by the Drive-By media outlets.

Cat.....substitute pre-WWII in your ideas and we would all be writing and speaking German right now.

Eric, your post 9.2. I think the "dictators" are already trying to take over.

CAT, FDR tried that during the Nazi's early years in Europe.

TJM07,

No, FDR was a hawk and a supporter of Great Britain after GB declared war. America during the thirties was a deeply isolationist country (study Charles Lindbergh) and it was Pearl Harbor that brought us into the war.

Rob Scan, we caused most of our problems in the middle east. Take Iran for example, in 1953 the Iranians elected a democratic form of government (prime minister and a legislative body). One of the first objectives of this government was to nationalize their oil. Well the British through BP were not happy with this plan. The British had basically controlled Iranian oil for many years and wanted it to stay that way. The British appealed to the world community, but the rest of the world told the British that the new Iranian government had every right to nationalize their oil. The British turned to the US government, and guess what we did? The US government dispatched the CIA to Iran and over threw their elected government, jailed their prime minister, then we reinstalled the Shah as leader of Iran. The Shah was every bit as ruthless as Sadaam, so 26 years later there was a revolution (American hostages). And yet we wonder why the people of Iran don't trust us, would you?

When the Russians were in AF, we supported the taliban and OBL. As soon as the Russians left, we did to. The country basically fell apart and allowed the radicals to take charge. OBL was upset that we had established a military base in Saudi Arabia after the first gulf war. He stated many times in the 90's that he would make us pay for this presence. There was really no military reason for the base, Sadaam's army was severely weakened by the war and we had all the military necessary to keep things stable in Kuwait. That is why 90% of the Saudi population hates us.

In conclusion, we have start minding our own business. We have all the military we need to protect ourselves and that is what we should be doing.

Islay...well said.  And although we need to protect our interests in the Middle East to protect our current thirst for oil, we need to understand the foolishness of doing it by killing Muslims. This will only continue the circle of violence for generations to come. 

Not a Sheep Anymore...it still is very much about "sacred" ground. The US needs to understand this to understand Islamic thought & not just look at it from our own point of view.  bin Laden broke from the Saudi's and began his plan to attack the US after the US & Saudi's refused his offer to bring together the Taliban, al Qaeda, and other Islamic groups to drive Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait after his invasion.  bin Laden was an enemy of Hussein's for a long time.  bin laden saw this as an Arab problem to be solved by Arabs. When the US was allowed by the Saudi's to bring their forces to Saudi Arabia and establish bases there it infuriated Muslims worldwide...the US was staging their war based on Muslim holy ground....imagine al Qaeda being allowed to base military operations from the Vatican City.

And to suggest that Muslims want anyone dead who doesn't believe in their religion is a bigoted, incendiary remark. But, they are willing to kill anyone who wishes to control their land, wealth, culture and resources. Even bin Laden said that he wanted to continue to do business with the US if Arab oil was controlled by fundamentalist Muslims. He stated that he thought the US was an evil & perverted culture, but as long as they kept their culture to themselves and didn't inflict it on the Middle East he would still do business. They need our money. We need their oil. That seems to be a good common ground to walk on.  

Please refer to post # 1.22

Chuck, your copy and paste skills are exemplar! But, do you have anything that's original?? Doubt it!

rickg:

you posted the most factual and insightful post I've seen in this thread.

The reason most Arab/Muslim nations don't trust us is we(Britain/USA/Russia) have been tryin to control THEIR resources since day one.

Our CIA did in fact start the coup that overturned Iran's democratic government.

Most muslims don't want to kill or enslave us as most extremists would like you to believe. Muslim leaders use religion to incite their people to follow their anti-western imperialism views. Some of our leaders and right wing "christian" extremists are guilty of doing the same thing here in the US. They label most Muslims as the enemy of western civilization.

I've seen lots of hateful anti muslim posts like ("kill them all" or "bomb them back into the stone age"). Think of how many people have been killed by so called "christians" thru-out history and you will see both cultures have destroyed others.

Cut and paste Chuck to Obama's butt. I think he would like that!

...and to the Hussein-huggers who would simply export hugs-and-kisses to those who would kill us? Let me guess...it's Bush's fault. That solves everything, we can go home now :)

Parnell, nuke'em is a phrase meaning who cares about how we put an end to their existence just do it. Most people are tired of the conflict turning into a political game where we are forced to prosecute soldiers, pay blood money and foot the bill in blood. If we are not there to nation build then why even put one red cent into an Afghan army that is nothing more than a force we will have to deal with down the road?

We should pull completely out of the region and see what develops. Who knows, it is possible they simply spend the next twenty years killing eachother off and solve the problem internally.

Thanks - I honestly interpreted the phrase "Nuke 'em" literally. I'm glad I was mistaken. However, I don't think we should be in the business of ending anyone's existence though I certainly am for ending their existence as a problem for the US. In the end - the people over there are going to decide what type of lives they have. It would be best if there was as minimum of friction with the US as they go through this process.

Please refer to post # 1.22

Cookie, these terrorists are in all of those countries. The war wasn't against Iraq or Afghanistan, it is against terrorists. Be aware, these terrorist do intend us harm and we would rather try to irradicate them on their own soil rather than here.

Sadam and his cohorts needed to go. It escalated because of the terrorists and we realized we couldn't stop with Sadam.

Linda, don't bother Cookie with logic or facts. regardless the topic it seems to be her mission in life to condemn GWB in particular and republicans in general, all the while exalting the Chosen One who is giving us "change".

"W" engaged in a war that if unavoidable was at least postphoneable and took our eyes off the prize (Bin Laden's head). We should have kept up the pressure in Afghanistan,instead we came here (Iraq) and while I agree it is a far better place without Saddam, if we had waited and come up with better strategy than the "war on the cheap"(unless you're Haliburton) philosophy of Don Rumsfeld and maybe secured the country particularly military assets we could have saved many lives. Losses are part of combat but the "bring 'em on" mentality of people who have never been in combat results in avoidable ones.

A lot of people aren't defending Bush who sent troops to war only for some of them to come home in coffins. But the antiwar, hate mongers aren't jumping up and down screaming their antiwar messages now even though Obama is sending troops to Afghanistan to fight. And oh, by the way, some of them will come home in coffins and not safe and sound.

The realities of war won't change because Obama is president. The lack of comment by the antiwar movement is proof that they were more interested in hating Bush than being consistant in their message.

I would be willing to bet that we know wher Bin Laden is and he is being used as bait to snare the higher ups in his organization as they travel to meet with him.

w k, didn't you hear we are not leaving Iraq in your lifetime. We will be there for years just as we are in South Korea and Europe.

That religion as it is is the worlds biggest problem because it inherrently produces groups to spread it through any and every means possible. Making it wealthy is the last thing you should wish for.

wk if what you say is true than why did we have an election here (Iraq) that resulted in the extreme religious politicians being shown the door? Women here are participating in society (one of the few good things of Saddams rule was women weren't marginalized like the rest of the Arab world) and schools are educating children ,both boys and girls. It's not perfect but it's way better than Afghanistan.

wk, you don't reach out to pet a rabid dog.

Fred G. from N.C. You are totally wrong about Education in the middle east. people are better educated than US, their high school is equivalent to 2nd year college in US. Woman are also working in all fields, Bussiness, law, engineers`, some did hold secreatery of state position...etc. In brutal Saddam rule, if you don'y graduate high school, you go to jail and study their ubtil you pass, because school is for free, even colleges and universities. People use religion to get elected like Bush or Iranian president.The Afghan became raging dogs after 5 years of occupation living below standard of living than most countries. They didn't any benefit from US,

Cookie it depends on what side of the argument you are on. If you haven't noticed the "true" liberals are protesting as we speak on the war in Afghanistan. The leemings are coming up with excuses for PO. Most of them just want their flavor of ice cream. Self serving jealous entitiled, you get the picture. Pakistan is the real problem and we can't control it because it is a nuclear power country ready to fall.

Cookie, you might want to re-think your position here. There are no Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Only Taliban and they didn't attack the twin towers. Even the bleading heart liberals know that, not think it, know it. Al Qaeda is in Pakistan. Al Qaeda was in Iraq. They called themselves "Al Qaeda in Iraq" Even the Teleprompter in Chief knew this. He called them Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia hoping the simple minded wouldn't figure out that Mesopotamia is Iraq. Our business is with Pakistan, not Iraq, until Al Qaeda switches location and we switch Presidents and which political party is in control. We are a lauging stock.

So.... this makes Barry a war monger, too, right? Or, maybe the Teleprompter-in-Chief is just trying to finish the oil pipeline that the always professional and honest Michael Moore told us about in one of his legendary 'movies'.

Cookie's right. It's very hard to find anyone ---writers, military journalists, military high ranking officers--- who still support the notion that the invasion, occupation and nation-building effort was anything other than a complete strategic blunder. According to Pat Buchanan (no liberal, bleeding heart, tree hugger) perhaps the biggest strategic blunder we have ever made.

Bleeding heart liberals want the US to fight everywhere there are women and children dieing. Don't give us that crap propaganda. It is the DEMOCRATS that used the war to gain political points PERIOD. If they had started it, as history shows how they feign responsibility but their policies provoke it, it would have been a great and noble cause. The only wars they like are the ones they use to advance their political agendas. Just read your history books.

Islay, ask the millions of Iraqi citizens that no longer fear their Dictator and his mass graves. Ask them if they would rather go back to the good ol' days when their Dictator/Mass murderer and his sons were funding terrorists with France, Germany and Russia's back-door oil money. Ask those liberated citizens if they appreciate having the opportunity to vote for their own government.

The biggest blunder was trying to fight a politically/media friendly war. We should have extermintated any that stood in our way instead of trying to reason with them because they were a Cleric or some higher archy in one of the factions. Again, if W was a Democrat, your evening news would give you a totally different light on this war on terror. Kind of like they are doing for the Teleprompter-in-Chief right now. And since when is Pat Buchanan our foreign affairs expert?

Depends on where you look for support, Islay. Cookie's wrong. And there are a lot ot writers,military journalists, military high ranking officers who support the notion that the removal of Hussein and the Bath Party leadership from Iraq was a tremendous success and will strengthen democracy and freedom in the middle east. All of which will lesson support for Islamic terrorism create a more stable Middle East.

Where al-Queda is today isn't where they were in 2001. In 2001 the 9/11 attacks were planned from Afghanistan. That put the Taliban who provided safe haven for them in our justifiable cross hairs. They (al-Queda) have since relocated into the Pakistan border region especially since we diverted attention here (Iraq).

Eric,

I don't know where you're getting your ideas on history, but let's go through the wars and you can then support your ridiculous claim.

If they had started it, as history shows how they feign responsibility but their policies provoke it, it would have been a great and noble cause. The only wars they like are the ones they use to advance their political agendas. Just read your history books.

1776 - War of Independence

1812 - War with Britain

1848 - Mexican War

1861 - Civil War

1898 - Spanish American War

1917 - WWI (when we entered)

1941 - WWII (again, when we entered)

1956-1973 - Vietnam

1990 - Gulf War I

2003 - Gulf War II

Go ahead and apply your thinking to these. Show us the common thread for bleeding heart liberalism, wars and political self interest you claim is so well supported by history.

Is,

Are you a Hitler apologist as well? His ideology is no different than this sect of Muslims and why they think that anyone who doesn't believe in their form of religion should die.

You forgot Korea (1950-53 I think).Also Panama -1989, Desert Storm which was 1991 not 1990 and OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom-Afgahnistan 2001) and OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom-2003) are the correct terms for our Persian Gulf conflicts.

Ron,

Well I've been looking and reading since the start of the Iraq war. Perhaps you could send me some articles that refute what I said about it being a strategic blunder. I'd be very open to reading them.

Not a sheep,

That's a ridiculous question. You do realize the difference between a strategic vision, i.e. national self interests and an ideological wrong turn don't you? Other than neo-cons, Joe Lieberman and Bush apologists, who wouldn't want to turn back the clock and start over? Ask Ron Paul if you like. BTW, the US should not make foreign policy based on eradicating nasty people and nation building. Ask your guy Bush abut that in the Bush-Gore debates. Remember?

Hey Fred,

My apologies. You know there's a reason Korea is called the forgotten war. Thanks also for the corrections on dates and terminologies.

I'm going to post this article again because it is pertinent to the conversation.

http://www.networkideas.org/news/feb2002/print/prnt280202_Enron_Taliban.htm

It dates back to February 28th, 2002.

Please refer to post # 1.22

Funny how when Barry says it--I mean, reads it from his teleprompters, it's a great idea. When W said it, it was a blunder. It's no wonder many of the liberal media outlets are closing or seriously suffering these days.

I'm in Iraq and I payed attention enough to know the President only promised to get out of Iraq ("as carefully as we were reckless going in") and refocus on Afghanistan. "W" is chilling on his ranch showing some class something a lot of you partisans of both stripes could use a lesson in.

No what was actually said throughout the campaign was out of Iraq and into Afghanistan. Kill Al Queada. More or less.

Fred G. You go where the enemy is, not where they were. And if you're really sharp, you get them to come to you where you are better prepared to deal with them. Like, say Iraq, when Al Qaeda came there to fight.

Please refer to post # 1.22

It is good to know history and to learn from it. Learning means to make a relatively permanent behavior change. It means not repeating things that do not bring about results that are sort. It means new procedures have to be implemented to bring about desired results. It does not mean to do nothing. It means do it differently and to stay flexible, having the ability to adjust to bring about the desired result.

that would be sought

I think that's basically my point also, we can accomplish just as much with a small, focused force as with thousands of troops with all their hardware, the only problem with such a strategy is that the generals and military thinkers can't bring themselves to do anything without the full array of US power and hardware so we become "muscle bound" in our approach. The generals need to be able to move around all those big piece on a huge map to feel like they are earning their keep.

Please refer to post # 1.22

Chuck T - real inteligent response, why don't you look up a speech given by USMC Major General S. Butler in 1933 and how he viewed war and what is the basis for most of it.

P.S. I think the general won 2 Medals of Honor by the way.

Ralph.

The President (Bush, now Obama) decide what the strategic ends (goals, objectives) are with advice and recommendations coming from his advisors and NSC reps (Nat'l Sec Advisor, CJCS, SecDef, SecState, etc).

The military, along with the other national instruments of power (Diplomatic- mainly DOS; Information- public statements, media interviews, editorials by admin. officials; and economic- sanctions, aid, freezing assets, grants, etc) come up with the ways to achieve the desired ends of the President (in this case Afghanistan).

The CENTCOM Cdr, since Afghanistan falls in his regional AOR, develops the plan (the way) and what resources (the means- capabilities, money, interagency assistance) to achieve the mission he is given. Guess who comes up with this plan? It is the 04s (Majors and LtCdmrs), 05s (LTCs, Cmdrs) and some 06s (COLs, CAPT's) on his joint staff, along with the Joint Interagency Coordination Group, who do the mission analysis, develop courses of actions, provide the recommendations for capabilities needed to achieve mission success (Stryker brigade vs light Inf or heavy BCT, etc). These officers develop the campaign plan and the lines of operations/efforts that provide the framework to achieve the CENTCOM Cdr's commanders intent and to the achieve the national "ends" (concerning the part the military plays) directed by the President.

The Generals, and his staff, are only doing their jobs in terms of achieving what the President has directed them to do (the what) by developing the the plan (the how). If the President ONLY wants the military to go after AQ in the border lands then perhaps SOF with AF assets (very small footprint and resource demands) would be applicable. But since the task was to conduct stability ops and assist in developing the capabilities of the Afghanistani government (in terms of governance, economic development, security force assistance, rule of law, etc) AND go after AQ, the General and his staff have to taylor the courses of actions and the means (resources, troops, equipment, etc) to achieve this Presidential strategic end.

Complain about the Presidents (then and now) and the congress (who also has a say in military ops in terms of constraints), not the military or the generals who are just trying to achieve what their commander in chief is directing them to achieve.

Sean: Read the speech I mention at #18.5, big business, big politics and big military are all in it together. The people who get killed are the fodder they use for their own purposes. Always has been, always will be. Since the beginning of time no general got a lasting reputation by having his army sit around at their home base.

Bob,

The Joint Task Force Commander requested these additional troops, through the CENTCOM cdr, to the President in order to achieve WHAT the national command authority (Obama and his key advisors/cabinet members) want done.

Our Rules of Engagment are clear. The use of deadly force is inherent in our ROE to respond to anyone shooting at us, or our fellow coalition members, or those who show deadly intent (pointing weapons at us, etc).

I would rather be a target over there with the ability to respond than for my fellow Americans to be the target in the US who may not even see the attack coming until its too late.

I can't believe there are still legal citizens who think closing our borders is a bad idea.

Carl,

I'm sure there are those that view Iraq as a victory of sorts. I would take exception to your use of the word, "great".

We're in somewhat of a lull at the moment and it's very difficult to say what Iraq will look like in 5-10 years. However, my only point was to question the wisdom of the invasion on national strategic grounds, i.e. our self interests. In other words, have we achieved what the neo-cons said we could: a stable democratic beachhead in the Middle East (democracies don't attack democracies), a military ally in the Middle East (permanent US bases), a stable producer and supplier of oil in the Middle East.

I have my doubts about all of these items and I fear that we have done little more than strengthen Iranian hegemony in the process.

As for Pat Buchanan, he is an avid student of history and strategic national issues. I didn't use him as an example of someone I agree with in most cases, because I don't; especially his views against open trade. I simply referred to him as someone on the right who happened to support my point of view. I think Pat's view of neo-conservatism as Republican Wilsonianism is especially apt.

Chuck, are you calling the troops the President has committed to Af social workers? They might be a wee bit offended by that.............

I don't understand this whole "social worker" rhetoric. I've trained Iraqi Police in Iraq and didn't feel like a social worker. I've worked with state department and dept of treasury, dept of labor and dept of justice personnel to assist the Iraqis in developing their capabilities to govern, revitalize their economy, and further rule of law efforts for the benefit of Iraqis.

Get a life.

The lemming just described Hitler's perfect Germany. Nice job.

Wrong country buddy..move to Russia please

Jesus was/is a socialist. Hey if this is what you brainwashed people want for America- a plutocracy and oligarchy you got it! Wait till your job goes then you will change, has to "hit home" first before anyone gives a rats ass..

1 in 6 kids live in poverty. CRIMINALS like Madhoff (your hero) steal billions and get away with it. 60 million w/o health care.. GOD would slap you...slap the @!$%# out you...

Can I have some of what you're sniffing ???

Hey it sounds great, but who in hell will be working to pay for all your grandiose dreams?

I started reading then looked at who wrote it.....

Nevermind...worthless words from a socialist.

I wish France would take this person back but i dont think they want him or her

Please refer to post # 1.22

urlemmings- Marx/Lenin/Stalin et all would be proud of you.  Those who did not survive the killing fields of Cambodia or the gulags of the old Soviet Union would curse you if they were still alive.  Socialist despots and dictators, including Saddam's socialist Baathist party,  have been directly responsible for more deaths and misery than any other group in history.  Now, it's coming to America.  Socialists once again sewing seeds of destruction.Under Comrade Obama, the USSA has very little time to survive.  When civil war comes, and it will, I hope that you, Bill Marh, Frank, Dodd, Slick Willy, and the thousands of other socialists who will be held responsible and liable for what happens to our country will have the balls to shoulder a weapon.  Gun stores are flooded with new customers buying weapons and ammo.  They are locked and loaded.  I'm looking forward to sticking a B.A.R. up the asses of people like you and pulling the trigger.  Bet you'll bleed yellow, not red.

Dang Eric

thats the smartest thing I have heard yet. Its a great idea. Let em party then shoot their ballons...

I like it

They partied till the cows came home when Obama was elected....that should tell you something.

wehaveelvis - Heck yeah man! Everybody everywhere partied when Barac Obama was elected President of the United States. I agree, it told us a lot. Great moment to remember!