I think suicide bombing is cheating because it doesn't even give you a chance to get even. It's game over, no do overs. Now that's cheating.

Cheating??? The dems want to b*tch about cheating? Now that's rich!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Cookie needs to stop smoking breakfast, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

SUPERMAX - 20 to LIFE

hey Cookie, look into the new 'adapt a terrorist' feel good program. Take 'em into your home to live with you and see how adaptive they are!

I know the World trade center (both times) wasn't 'cheating', or any of the suicide bombers...why i bet they hand out pamphlets hours before blowing themselves up, or make sure there aren't any women and children around.

I bet you were this upset when Janet ordered the killing of all the Branch Davicians in Texas, OH...THAT was an accident..yeah, right.

Cookie- even though I am sure you are merely a DNC apparatchik, I'll assume you are of good heart. I'll try to explain this in small words. Americans are alive because those captives endured coercion. None of them are dead. None of them suffered long term effects. What they did and tried to do to your friends, your neighbors, your sons, your daughters got them to Gitmo. What we did to them saved American and British people and property, homes, bridges and who knows what else. Who cares about them? More important, who would?

Wasn't Eric Holder a part of the Branch Davidian's massacre?

Tom343

I'll go a little farther we didn't cut any ones head off for the media. Terrorists did! We don't send children into crowded areas with bombs. Terrorists do! Under normal leadership we do what we can to gather information about new attacks. Under this administration we will bow, shake hands, accept a book, even enjoy a meal with them. If that is the new face of America this old Vet is ready to do what the lefty wack jobs said they would do if Bush got elected. Move the hell away!!!

marty, great idea! all the people who feel so sorry for these guys can adopt them. in no time at all they'll be whiney, self centered, stand in line for starbucks crap and be able to text while driving.

Cookie, step away from the bong.

Cookie made this political the moment she uttered the words, "repubes." Up to that point, she actually had me thinking she gave a damn about the issue.

cmon; it isn't about feeling bad for terrorism suspects. It's about honoring who we are and what we stand for through our actions; putting our money where our mouth is so to speak. There are numerous reasons why I am proud to be an American and one of them involves the fact that we attempt to be a civilized law-based society that tries to practice what we preach (law, freedom, peace, etc; at least some of us do anyway). Utilizing torture violates this ideal and therefor is something we should condemn and not justify through blind, nationalistic, ethnocentric, fear inspired, rhetoric. For all of you advocating and justifying torture...listen to yourselves the next time one of our men or women are bing subjected to it and see yourselves for the hypocrits you are.

"Cheating" is too small a word for the torture, abuse, and overall degredation of a human being.  I find it unbelievable that a political party who continually stands on the platform of pro-life - against abortion and the death penalty - are suddenly pro-torture?  Wow... the irony in that.  Torture is wrong, ethically and morally, and it is not made right, excusable or explainable by the blind following of the political figureheads who lead the charge.  The whole thing: the quiet coverup, the "accidental" omission of facts, the torture of people who feel pain the same way each of us does, and the ignorant following by those unwilling or unable to think of another way, a better way - rings faintly of the Hitler and the Jews.  Genocide? No.  The same tactics on an individual scale? Yes.  Just because Condoleeza Rice said it is okay - we must all drop our opinions, our values, and our belief in basic human rights?  Obviously some of you are okay with that.  I am not.

Cookie

My concern is you do not understand radical Islam and that scares the hell out of me. Lets put it this way an insane person has your child, he is going to cut your child's head off with a knife video tape it and display it to the world, and if you have no child say someone or something you care about, maybe a cat in your case.

Now I can see you coming back with we tortured them and that's why they are cutting our heads off. My answer to you is research on radical Islam and its origins you will find they have been cutting peoples heads off before we were even a country.

They are animals, they are not citizens of this country, they do not even have a country it is an ideology we are at battle with, an ideology that all others are wrong to them convert or die is their message.

Simple question for you cookie do we let innocent people die?

I truly do not understand people like yourself, very illogical.

Cookie, wake up. Do you realize that we do waterboarding to people in our military as a part of training. You liberals are not complaining about this. Also, obama's own intelligence officer has stated that we have gotten a lot of valuable information through waterboarding, which is enhanced questioning techniques, not torture. We have also learned that a second attack was thwarted in Los Angeles. These are enemy combatants and not citizens that deserve any protection under our constitution. People like you, obama, liberal democrats, and liberal whiners are the ones that are going to cause us to have a second 9/11.

Jack I agree with you and Cookie needs to wake up to the real world.

So, does Iran have the right to waterboard, slam against the wall, and chain naked in a standing position the alleged American spy they've captured?

Of course, with the intent to extract intelligence.

When I think of Cookie, I am reminded of the line Jack Nicholson so professionally delivers in A Few Good Men, "Truth? You can't handle the truth!"

Cookie touts the "American Way" as being what made this country great. Keep in mind, Cookie, that the American Way is a capitalistic system where people have the freedom to achieve great success and reap the rewards of hard work and risk and the freedom to fall flat on their faces from lack of it. This is being taken away by the Obama administration who believes in apologizing to other nations for America's greatness, its so-called "arrogance" at being the best and talking down America on foreign soil. NOT the American way!

I can imagine you voted for him. Good luck with that.

Thinkingman

Hey Cookie, if it was one of your family members heads on the terrorist's chopping block, and we had a suspected terrorist that knew the location of where they were holding your family member. Would you still be against waterboarding or any other tactic that the Obama Admin. deems "torture" to extract that information? You're nuts if you say you still would not support it.

You all are nothing but a bunch of racist librals going after MRS. Rice in this witch hunt. the only reason your are attacking her is because she black.

Everyone can see you showing your true colors.

"enhanced questioning techniques?" newspeak anyone? "war is peace" too huh?

Wow Mark, your really towing that party line aren't you? I'm sure Bush and Cheney are proud of you. Are you also willing to sacrifice some of your rights in favor of more security, huh? "Freedom isn't free" right?

Also, please read our constitution, it refers to people not citizens. And this point aside, ever heard of the Geneva Conventions? They outline the appropriate treatment of enemy combatants and POW's.

We water board members of our military so they will have the ability to withstand torture if they are ever captured and subjected to this method of torture. Also, members of our military volunteer for the training they receive and there is trust between them and their superiors so the fear of imminent death that this form of torture inspires is made moot.

So please Mark, follow your own advice and "wake up."

TimeWillTell: if you claim that Muslims are animals because they have been cutting off peoples heads for a while, then we as descendants of white western people are animals as well. Scalping is a European tradition practiced in the Americas up until the last century. You assertion is extremely biased and fails to include countless historical realities. I guess this is convenient for you because you can than approach the dialogue from a place of righteous indignation. Let me guess...you're Christian?

1screamingeagle: your statement is simply irrational and unfounded. Do you just make sh!t up as you go along? With comments like that it certainly appears that way.

"Last fall, Rice acknowledged to the Senate Armed Services Committee only that she had attended meetings where the CIA interrogation request was discussed and asked for the attorney general to conduct a legal review. She said she did not recall details. Rice omitted her direct role in approving the program in her written statement to the committee. The new timeline shows that Rice played a greater role than she admitted last fall in written testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee. "

----------------------------------

Didn't the Republicans impeach Bill Clinton for lying? Wonder what will happen to Ms. Rice for lying?

Have we all lost sight of 9/11 - it's a new world and we better be able to compromise some of our older principles to protect our country in today's climate. I wonder if Cookie would feel the same if her husband was in one of the towers that fateful day?

We have suffered all kinds of attacks from outside and from within our country over the course of 232 years. To say now that 9/11 happened, we have to sacrifice the ideals this country was built on is more than a little naive.

I lost a family member and i agree with cookie on most of her points.

Remeber that kid who lost his parents on 9/11 but he was still protesting the war in Iraq. Then the kid went on O'Reilly and good old Bill started speaking for this kids dead parents and telling him how horrible he was and anti-American, etc? That was a good one, he sure told that tree-huggin, hippie-liberal.

well said schwannomin.

csm:

You, my friend, have forgotten the power of a free and humane democracy.

You, my friend, have forgotten the power of a free and humane democracy.

Name one. We haven't forgotten because it hasn't happened. Unless you find killing, wounding, and imprisoning your enemies is more humane than waterboarding them. No people became free or remained free by being humane. We just rationalize the application of inhumanity to suit our goals.

I don't think anyone on this site can deny what a horrific tragedy 9/11 was. However, the moment we strip ourselves of our "older principles" particularly the ability to identify what is right and wrong we have become no better and no different than those who attacked us that day. What is the difference between the life of one person and another? One is ours and one is theirs? Look at it this way: these terrorists believe what they are doing is God's work, that they are securing themselves a place in heaven. Yet, we are the ones bending our rules, our values and beliefs to punish these people. We would show more strength by uniting together against such extremists rather than reverting to their very own tactics that we, by nature, know are wrong.

Did the terrorist play by the rules or "cheat" when they killed David Pearl ? ?  Did the terrorist "cheat" when they killed thousands in the World Trade Center attack ? ?  People, GROW UP ! ! !  You are talking about a short period of time after the Trade Center attack.  Everyone, Democrats and Republicans alike, were looking on how to stop future attacks and deal with "enemy combatants", not soldiers who were captured during a defined war.  The actions taken have prevented any additional attacks in America,  any interrogation techniques that would protect Americans should always be used ! ! Islamic Terrorist are the scum of the earth and cowards, who have no rights.  They even kill their own, they have no conscious ! !  They are loyal only to ideas that meet their specific needs at that specific time.  Democrats should no push the issue because they will find that the Democrats that are complaining the most, were part of the approval process.  People in Glass Houses should not throw rocks.

Why do we even have laws during war. You shoot my buddy and then I have to follow laws. I love this civilized warfare. Why is it our enemies don't follow it but we are suppose to. I think you should kill every enemy, no surrender. That would keep alot of small countries from screwing with us. It's like the big guy on the block. If he had to follow rules you might mess with him. But if he was free to do anything you would keep your distance. Rules are for games. Not war.

Cookie isn't that far off. Torture is against the Geneva Convention . There is mild forms of torture that is acceptable to the UN. However, the extremes Bush and Cheney went with torture trickled down and Rice thought is was okay? I hope they lock her up.

Terrorist are evil people, but water boarding someone for 186 times is too much. John McCain was tortured he said , "you'll say anything to make them stop."

You know cookie: The laws of this nation are in favor of special intrest groups and illegals, they are the ones with rights, we the working class do not even have freedom of speech without being racist-bias or right wingers. Well if this country had (1) real moral or value that hadn't been screwed up by liberals we would be in much better shape than we are now. You don't like a law just change it to suit the special intrest group and watch our country continue to fall deeper. Sorry but I remember 9/11 and would prefer not to worry about the people's rights that are on the terrorist lists or in prison for rapeing or killing or pirateing. Call me bias, it's your right and I can accept that with no problem, But I will worry about the rights of the LAW ABIDEING citizens of this country because they are an asset, not a liability!

Nobody seemed to care right after 9/11. Geuss it's ok for the enemy to behead people but we can't get someone a little wet.

Nobody seemed to care right after 9/11. Those "torture techniques were developed and used in training on our U.S. military. You want to talk about torture, The Bataan Death March is torture.

There's no cheating in war. We are probably the only country that has so many bleading hearts worried about the well being of the people who want to destroy this country. It makes me sick. (Yes, that includes Britain and the other supposed nice European countries)

You should see the videos of what these guys do. Ever see anyone tied and blindfolded. Lying on the floor. Then someone steps on the side of his head and reaches down and slits his throat. That's what THEY do.

While the arm chair generals sit and point fingers like they actually would do things different or better.

Are all of you high? Do you all realize what kind of precident this could set for Americans abroad? It means any of us in foriegn countries could be detained and waterboarded in order to extract information we may or may not have. I've never been waterboarded, but I wonder how long it would take for myself or anyone else praising torture to sign a confession to some crime we clearly didn't commit. It doesn't have to be the policy of any government for this to happen. It could be some crazy police official who just doesn't like you. And what happens if you do confess? How is the government of the United States of America suppossed to defend someone who confesses to a crime under duress if we ourselves have extracted confessions in the same manner? What are we suppossed to say, "We can do it but you can't?" Or, "It only works for us and not for you?" We have no excuses and believe it or not this is something that does happen to Americans abroad more often than you would like to think.

We are a country based on principles and standards. We do not torture. I praise the Obama administration for their efforts to end torture and get us back on the right track.

Yep, I am always independent but have leaned republican. This time I did vote for Obama. When I listen to the emotional rhetoric coming from the left, I have to seriously rethink any idea to vote for these kind of people.

For  your information, the US is third world. Go to Europe, even China. We have fallen so far behind. Why? Lack of principles, greed and the willingness to sacrifice each other to get a buck or just get ahead. So much for  your American way.

When our enemy can cut off the heads of our soldiers and civilians and target everyday citizens in terrorist attacks, I say do whatever it takes to make them stop. If that means gathering information, so be it.

Water boarding? We are talking about throwing water in someone's face, right?

If we prosecute our leaders for doing the best they could after 911, then indeed we are idiots. Or maybe that is just the far left that are idiots? I haven't quite made up my mind yet.

Those of you against the use of waterboarding, etc.... You are defending the rights of those who murdered, without hesitation, thousands of mothers, fathers, sons & daughters. Maybe you should go stand shoulder to shoulder w/ all the remaining terrorists who would murder you, your family, or anyone without a second thought. These people DO NOT DESERVE human rights simply because they behave in an un-human way. To Condoleezza Rice and the CIA, I say thank you for keeping us safe from future attacks and for bringing those low-life poor excuses for human beings to justice! God Bless You.

I think the goverment should use all means at displosal to obtain information from terrorists. This is just a witch hunt to make libs happy. I remember 9/11 as well. A lot of good people, men women and children were killed. Families were destroyed and are still suffering the effects of what took place! I am so greatful that Bush was president and not Gore. At least Bush responded. Gore would of blamed it on Global Warming and would have tried to tax them for it!!!!!!

Cookie, I am with you all the way, and anyone who knows their history, especially regarding the nature of this country as our founders envisioned it (they had their flaws, to be sure, but they had the right idea) and the history of torture, it's uses and results (Jews "converting" to Christianity just so the pain would stop is one example, another is George Washington's refusal to treat British POWs as badly as the Brits were treating captive revolutionaries/ POWs-look it up, all ye who would countenance torture and inhumane treatment of others for whatever reason. There were plenty of revolutionary Americans who wanted to take out thei anger on captive Brith soldiers, but THAT President George refused to hear of it) hasn't got a very good handle on what "Americanism" is or should be.What I read in the posts of those who favor torture is revenge and hatred, natural reactions to what happened on 9/11/2001, but NOT any sense of the American system and spirit of law. We are a country of law, not men, and Lord help us stay that way! Heaven knows I spent a couple of weeks after that day alternately in shock, crying, and screaming to get the bad guys, I was so angry! But reason eventually took over and I watched a virtual farce develop, a
shameful 71/2 years that just got worse and worse, and now even worse is coming to light. Every time I think I cannot be shocked or surprised anymore, I am. Cookie knows what I'm talking about, I'm sure. I am terribly upset about Condi. She is a very bright woman, but the brightest of people, if they are too detached from the results of their actions, can commit the greatest wrongs. I don't understand her, I don't think I ever did. I can only come to the conclusion that what has been said about her is, sadly, true: she was a real acolyte of GWB and would do anything to please him. That's a terrible thing to say. In public service, one must keep their own perspectives, their own independence of thought. I don't have another theory about why she did what she apparently did. Maybe Cookie does
This must be kept out of the realm of partisan politics above all, no matter what happens. Tes, I know about the implications of Eric Holder's involvement in Waco. I followed that horror the whole way through, and if he is guilty of wrongdoing, I wish it had come before the LAW long before now. All the more reason to appoint a special prosecutor/ investigating team, whatever, that has no allegiance to anything but finding the truth and doing the right thing about it. To those who say that cannot happen, I would point out that it happens every time a jury is chosen. Amazing things happen! A person convinced of the rightness of capital punishment votes to acquit an accused murderer- ON THE EVIDENCE, ACCORDING TO THE LAW, NOT EMOTION or PREJUDICE. We have become a sorry country indeed if we cannot treat the possibility of great wrondoing in the highest levels of government in the same way.

Does anyone think Iran has the right to torture the American woman they've accused of espionage? They will make the claim that she holds valuable information that they need to extract.

If she's thrown against a wall, chained up to the ceiling naked, and waterboarded; we would be absolutely right to condemn those actions as torture. We, along with the rest of the world, would have every right to ask for charges of crimes against humanity against the Iranians. America insists others play by rules, but then we secretly break them when things are hard.

I heard a person on a TV news show last night boil this down to a very simple point, which makes great sense, unless one is an idiot.

" If your own child or family member was going to be killed, would it be OK to waterboard a captured terrorist to prevent the murder from happening ???"

"If your answer is yes, then why is it not OK to waterboard a terrorist to try to prevent somebody else's child or family member from being murdered ???"

And let's keep truth in the mix here....there were always medical personnel present at waterboarding sessions....and the sessions never lasted more than 40 seconds. And the CIA folks did get valuable info to stop terrorist activities designed to kill innocent America lives....this "minor" point is beginning to come out to the public.

Mr. Obama will let people get prosecuted for "torture" ( not my word ) because it will be all over the news in the next couple of weeks, when he plans to slam his 'health care' proposal thru and his cohorts have a plan to push this next disaster thru using all "legal" methods to limit debate in congress and slam his plan thru quickly.

So Cookie I guess it is ok then when they (meaning anyone during war times) capture

one of our boys or girls (oh I would hate to think of what they would do to a girl) and

torture them? I have never been tortured like that so I really can't say how it feels

but I am sure there are plenty of GI's that could tell you a thing or two that would probably make your blood run cold. No 2 wrongs do not make a right, it doesn't make it right either for the people in our Gov't. now going after those that tried to do the

right thing after 911 (oh by the way, do you think those people felt anything?)

I am sick and tired of all the "we can't treat terriost like that" - waterboarding and all

BS go ask how they treat our boys. Sorry get so mad at this subject loose and repeat my train of thoughts.

All's fair in love and war...perhaps one of you bleeding heart liberals can stop crying out for these guys and start coming up with a good idea or two for getting us out of this mess.

BTW...it's not cheating when it comes to protecting ourselves. Or are we only allowed to protect ourselves when they are on our soil...because by then it will be too late.

Let's see. The Justice Department lawyers said that waterboarding was not torture. Now, 7 years later, members of Congress (who were briefed on the procedure and did not object) are now claiming that it was torture.

Sounds like a disagreement among lawyers. And since when do lawyers agree on much of anything. To hold anyone else accountable for approving what lawyers say was legal is ridiculous. The problem seems to be whether the lawyers who declared it legal had a reasonable basis for doing so. Any investigation should focus on this single issue.

Also, if it was torture, why was it approved as a training exercise for our own troops.

Infiltrators would have got as much if not more information. There are laws of war. We disregard them at our own peril.

Cookie, we built this country like every other country ever established. Over the bones of our enemies. These men play outside the law, therefore they cannot expect the mercy or justice of the law. They try to win by any means. They do not deserve your mercy.

IcePick,

I just wanted to show the irony of the libral and their midia. If one is Black Republican, The media is visous in their attacks. But since O is our first Black President all MSM agencies are using kid gloves. In the US if one is not white they and their situation is handeled differant and the ACLU is waiting to pounce. But since Rice was part of the GOP and served under Bush those rules do not apply.

As for the torture issue. My PLT has capture a number of HVIs (Upon multiple and proper investgations) and they were detained, and my question comes to this how far is O willing to go? will my PLT and every soldier that has capture a combatant be summanaced to court to explain why we capture the plotters and terrorist. It getting late and i need to VOIP my wife before bed.

Good night America

The people we are fighting are something just short of animals. They have to respect, no dignity and certainly no value for innocent life. They murder, oppress, and deny those they are in contact with basic human rights. And yet, you think the way we should deal with these people is by offering them tea? What makes you so certain, anyways, that Obama himself isn't going to use 'harsh' methods to stop a terrorist attack. If it saves your butt then you should appreciate it.

I guess be-headings are ok, chemical weapons are OK, women and children straped with bombs that kill innocent people is ok. Pouring water on someones face is cheating. The Navy seals are all several times as part of their training. A FOX News analyst volunteered and waswater boarded, but that is cheating. The water boarding of two of the prisoners right after 9-11 stopped the next wave of attack and pointed us to Zarqhawi where he was eliminated. Lets see, thousands of lives lost or cheating by pouring water on someones face. I am not a rocket scientist, ut I think the latter is my choice, but then I would be called a cheater from imbeciles like you.

Mark-384387: Indeed, some of our troops are subjected to these torture techniques during training. Why? Because the Vietcong and communists during the Korean war were known to use these techniques on their prisoners and we wanted our troops to be able to stand up to this torture. Then we turn around and say that if our troops can deal with these methods in a training setting, it's OK to apply them to others. Is this logical? Does it mean that it ISN'T torture? Similar techniques were used during the Inquisition and by Pol Pot against his own people in Cambodia and I think we would judge them differently.

I think we should lock up Condi Rice and her piano and throw away the key.Then we need to start looking for some cellmates for her ......... like Cheney,Bush & Rove who have brainwashed people into thinking that descending into the level of barbarianism of the terrorist somehow makes us safe or stronger.It does neither,it just flushes time honored American values down the drain to satisfy the blood lust of the right wing of this country.

1screamingeagle: I haven't seen any examples of people going after Rice in a racial way. It's her policies that are being attacked and the fact that she has been less than forthright (people went after the rest of the Bush Administration all of whom are white, except Gonzalez of course). If Obama was caught in a omissionof this magnitude i don't doubt that he would be openly and widely criticized and rightly so. A majority of Americans support Obama and are willing to be flexible because he shows himself to be flexible. This is highly unlike the previous administration where the common rhetoric was "love it or leave" or "you're either with us or against us," etc.

This isn't to say that Obama supporters are Obama apologists (although there are some out there I'm sure). You seem to feel that there's this underlying conspiracy of apologists who refuse to hold Obama accountable for his mistakes which is simply ridiculous. He will make mistakes and I will be the first to call him on it, but I feel confident that his mistakes will judgement or ideological rather than ethical or legal mistakes. This is what makes so many people hostile towards Rice, she didn't just make bad choices, she made unethical and possibly illegal choices which causes people to be much more aggressive in their criticisms.

How can we be a great country and not win a war without torture? We shake our find at lesser countries for the same thing. I can not believe this is even an issue. Drowning someone is torture no matter how you put it and whether it is done knowingly in prison to terrorists or sanctioned there is no reason other methods can not be used. Bush covered up torture in many ways and there is no excuse. The conservative media covered it up with lies for years.

Folks:

That high pitched, screaming sound you hear is Condi being thrown under the bus.

Fortunately there is plenty of room next to Colin Powell who was tossed there around 2004. The interesting thing about the area underneath a bus is that it is infinite and you may toss as many people under there as you need to without worrying if there is enough room.

Ms. Rice may be wicked smart, but even brilliant people should be careful of the company they keep.

Good Luck!

Cookie-550686xx

Seems like we are being tortured about all we can take my Hussein and his buddys and then along comes cookie, you are a disgrace to the human race. I think waterboarding is OK. Another thing that has me concerned, the obama people say that was not a bow, if it was not a bow he must be gay because he was low enough to unzip his pants, he must have decided that was not the right time of the night.

It looks like Newsvine has become the righties spewing venue. Thank goodness this country woke up from the nightmare of the past 8 years and elected an intelligent president who knows the laws of this country and will not adjust or re-write those laws to allow the CIA to break them in our name. I feel sorry for those of you that would justify torture in the name of revenge. It must be difficult to carry that hate and ignorance of history around with you all the time.

gerrybear:

I guess be-headings are ok, chemical weapons are OK, women and children straped with bombs that kill innocent people is ok.

I tried really hard but I couldn't find any examples of people asserting something even remotely close to this. Is this hyperbole? Do you feel the need to include dramatic exaggeration in order to make you point? If so, it would seem that you have a fairly weak point.

The water boarding of two of the prisoners right after 9-11 stopped the next wave of attack

What exactly was this next wave of attacks going to be? When? Where? Who? If waterboarding was directly responsible for us finding out this detailed information and stopping the "next wave of attacks" please let me know where you found this information. I would really like to read it.

Also since when do differing opinions mark someone as an imbecile?

" If your own child or family member was going to be killed, would it be OK to waterboard a captured terrorist to prevent the murder from happening ???"

"If your answer is yes, then why is it not OK to waterboard a terrorist to try to prevent somebody else's child or family member from being murdered ???"

These are fine points but why do people refuse to look at it the other way around?

If it were your own child or family member who was accused of being a terrorist - guilty or not - would it be okay for the US government to use torture tactics against them? Regardless of how you justify it to yourself, that person is someones family. Try, just for a second to put yourselves in their shoes. I know it feels wrong and what they have done and what they are doing is wrong but it doesn't make it right to retaliate in the most medieval of ways. For once American arrogance is justified: we ARE better than that! Yet, somehow about this issue we have this third grade mentality of "they did it first" and we are lowering ourselves right down to their level.

The fact is the terrorist hate us because of our principals, that is why they want to create destruction and hate, and as soon as we start acting like them. NO MATTER WHAT THE EXCUSE, we become NO better then they are. U think Osama Ben Landen can kill all of us? Of course not!! He was only hoping to cause chaos, fear, turn us against each other and help creat an economic decline here in the US because he knew that was the way to destroy this country. from the inside out. And for over 8 years we had that, Economic collapse, fear mongering (Cheney and Bush its us or its them mentality,and you are either with us or against us rhetoric). Our individual freedoms got taken away in the the name of safety, sounds familiar, the third Reich in Nazi Germany had the same plan. Allowing torture under the lame excuse they do it so so that gives us the right, is just pure BS. Its like saying hey the neighbor hits his wife so that gives me the right to hit mine. Every time we give up on our American ideals by condoning Torture, domestic wire tapping, arresting people without charging them and denying a right to trail etc., when we start acting like hypocrites, the terrorist win, is that what u want??

Arrest the bitch, end of discussion.

excellent point eehk. there is also the mentality that if you disagree with water boarding and other forms of torture, you are somehow ok with all the heinous thinks that some individuals carry out; or that you somehow find these actions acceptable. it's that same "for us or against us" mentality that has plagued us since that Ivy League, silver spooned, "cowboy" took office.

If we compromise our principles we are letting people like bin Laden force us to play by his rules. As much as anyone else I want to catch that bastard and make him pay, but it needs to be done on our terms, not theirs. If his actions cause us to compromise ourselves, the victory is his.

He is like the failing bully in school that wants to antagonize you into a fight in the middle of class. If you submit and hit him, you're both busted but the bully has nothing to lose, and you have everything to lose. You may break his nose and it'll feel good, but what are the consequences? are they worth it?

in my opinion no. let's wait till after school and kick his ass behind the church down the rode. in other words, on our terms.

eehkb4

Yet, we are the ones bending our rules, our values and beliefs to punish these people. We would show more strength by uniting together against such extremists rather than reverting to their very own tactics that we, by nature, know are wrong.

That's the position these terrorsits put us in. They know our rules and how we value life, so they use this against us by hiding among woman and children in civilian clothing.

They will heartless send a suicide bomber into a crowd with dozens of people and kill them all if in the process they can take out a handful of our soldiers. These people aren't human. They're animals.

The bold difference in our interrogation tactics and the terrorists torure is that ours is designed to extract information and keep the detainee alive. Theirs is designed to kill and spread fear. Which is more humane in your opinion?

If you Liberals are so smart then why aren't you commanding our military? How would you win a war without bending a few rules when your enemies use your own rules against you and to their advantage?

It could be also, why she did not date anymore football players, when she got into office. She might of scarred the hell out of them, which caused a hormone imbalance. This one is for the gals, I suppose..................as for me, I am going to grab my waterboard, and jump in the water................

"If you Liberals are so smart then why aren't you commanding our military? How would you win a war without bending a few rules when your enemies use your own rules against you and to their advantage?"

Mr. C,

So, it would be okay for us to strap bombs to our soldiers and send them into throngs of innocent people in hopes that we would kill a couple of terrorists? You cannot draw a proverbial line in the sand and say torture is okay but suicide bombing isn't. Human life is human life... period. Also, in response to liberals commanding the military - I believe the entire reason this controversy has arisen is because of who has been in charge of the military/government for the past eight years. However at this point it isn't about who is running the show, it is about who is going to clean up the mess that has been created in allowing this to happen.

poppinmary

Terrorist are evil people, but water boarding someone for 186 times is too much. John McCain was tortured he said , "you'll say anything to make them stop."

That particular 'someone' that you have sympathy and compassion for is one of the 9/11 masterminds which mercilessly tortured 3,500 Americans to death in the Twin Tower attacks.

In my opinion, he should be waterboarded once for every American that died on 9/11. He has been waterboarded 186 times, only 3314 more to go.

eehkb4

Mr. C,

So, it would be okay for us to strap bombs to our soldiers and send them into throngs of innocent people in hopes that we would kill a couple of terrorists? You cannot draw a proverbial line in the sand and say torture is okay but suicide bombing isn't.

No I am not advocating our soldiers kill civilians and I think you are a desperate moron to twist my words into your retarded logic.

Compaing waterboarding to suicide bombing? You too stupid to even address any further.

Go Cookie!

I'm against waterboarding if it would save even one democrat. The only thing shorter than a democrats memory is their tax return.

Wait a minute. The 9/11 "freedom fighters" blew up 4 airliners full of fuel and set fire to the Twin Towers, and the Pentagon. They burnt up thousands of gallons of fossil fuel and emitted tons of C02 to pollute our planet. They are now eco-terrorists! Democrats will now insist that we cut off their childrens heads. Creating C02 is a far worse crime than mass murder.

Oops, I seem to have hit a nerve. Desperate? How so? I don't believe any amount of desperation or "retarded" (very p.c. by the way) logic will bring you around to my point of view. I was merely trying to point out that you cannot classify one immoral act in an "okay" category and another in an "unspeakable" category. That is exactly what got us into this situation to begin with.

We can torture, torture, torture all we want... I ask you, what good will come of it all? And now that we find that some of the American people are outraged at this idea - how will we reunite against the true enemy? And, if this torture was as you say, "a position these terrorists put us in." Why do you think it was hidden until now? Why was it classified? To protect those who were involved... possibly, but I suspect that there was a slightly larger scale coverup having to do with the fact that the American people do not want to stoop to the level of the enemy. We do not want to debase our values or have our military neighbors and family members have to live with actions that were forced upon them for the rest of their lives.

Suffering begets suffering. I understand that is war - but there is no gray area in my book. When you bring someone into a prison blindfolded and bound hand and foot and proceed to torture them in a controlled environment you cross the line.

Rice was the Bush administrations ho. She had an oil tanker named after her big butt, so what do you expect?

You think Condie' butt is big? Michelle Obama's is as big as a galaxy and I think you'll find there is a black hole in the center.

Cookie - you and all of America that have this problem right now - here is a suggestion - the next time the terrorists come calling - you and everyone else hand yourself over to them and see what happens!!

They will be calling soon - please get ready.

I read the word "torture" a bit too often on this site....it's torturous. Bring the menu of our horrible treatment of terrorists to the people living in their home countries and let them read all about the types of treatment we now call "torture" ....this way they can all have a good laugh.

This is a subjective discussion - and the media is turning it into a witch hunt to make news. Many view waterboarding as torture and many do not. Those hyping this topic feel it is - those who don't, aren't paying attention...

Cookie or Kookie (whichever one applies),

I suppose you think the U.S. should put terrorists up in a 5-star hotel and serve them tea and cakes. Then ask them very politely to please tell us their plans. If everyone thought like you do, then we would all be wearing burhkas, praising Allah and living in the United States of Al-Qaida.

When do we indict Franklin Roosevelt for fire-bombing German civilians and Harry Truman for A-Bombing Japanese civilians in WWII?

Oh, I'm sorry. They were Democrats, so they're exempt. How silly of me.

If Justice Department lawyers found Waterboarding to be legal, I don't understand the hysteria. If there was a problem, ask them to explain their position. So far, it seems to be an issue of some people considering it torture, and others not. Are we really surprised that lawyers differ on questions of legality???

How did the GOP get itself into the position of defending and endorsing torture.

Burlap, the Christian jihadists in this country took over our gov't and rammed numerous programs through the Fed despite the lawlessness of it all. It will take awhile, bit I sincerely believe this county will find its axis once again and bring many of these people up on charges.

At the very least, we finally got them removed from office... I hope Supermax has room for them all.

heres a vote for condi way to go i am all for america, we need to stop this trying to me nice and polite to these muslim terrorist where were all of the outrage from the dumocrat party when americans held by muslim terrorist had their heads chopped off' huh it wasn't their kin and they didn't give a darn. obama has decided that he will be a dictator as president and he does not give a hoot for america just his agenda...

Roy,

I am a democrat and i do believe that the US committed war crimes in WWII and specifically that the A-bombing was definitely a war crime. However, in my experience, whenever this topic comes up, it is the right wing that goes ballistic and insists that using atomic weapons was justified and that we cannot possibly question or investigate those decisions.

I recently heard a comment about this subject. Think about the torture the passengers on the plane went through as they watched themselves being flown into a building. Or how about the people who jumped from the World Trade Center to suffer less that way then burning alive.

Obama and the Democratic Congress created the worst financial crisis since Carter and maybe before that and instead of investigating that they are wasting time on this? The papers will be there for a long time, this is not a high priority issue.

The phrase fiddle while Rome burns comes to mind.

Chuck: utter nonsense.

Chuck are you serious? Obama has only been in office a couple of months, this crises orginated years ago. I'm completly convinced your break is over and you need to get back to your post at the Cinnabon.

Chuck - your naivity is mind boggling. The financial crisis was caused by deregulation that was supported by BOTH sides BEFORE Obama had anything to do with being an important figure in the Democratic party. It was also caused by idiots who think it's acceptable to use credit cards and take out loans for everything without reading the fine print. And I'm willing to bet you've got a few credit cards and a loan or two, so consider yourself part of the problem.

Chuck, you are right on. This morans that didn't realize no vote obama was helping dems to drive the economy down the last two years are wondering mindlessly around following what someone else tells them to think. Keep thinking for yourself.

Sick of Party Squabbling...Deregulation is not the devil...yes....a VERY SPECIFIC, well planned pattern of unethical deregulation pushed through by lobbyists for the sole purpose of making a very small percentage of people rich, brought on our current financial crisis. And yes BOTH sides knew...that's why I didn't vote for either of those meatheads. It's time for a completely new administration in this country, because at the rate we're going to end up being a bunch of mediocre socialists owned by China.

What does any of this discussion got to do with how interrogation techniques developed and were authorized during the "war on terror"?

Tom-286396

Didn't the Republicans impeach Bill Clinton for lying? Wonder what will happen to Ms. Rice for lying?

Nothing should happen to Mrs. Rice.

Mr. Clinton was impeached, however he kept his seat. But I'll tell you what.....when Mr. Clinton serves his 5 years for lying under oath, then Mrs. Rice can serve her 5 years for lying under oath if you can prove that she willfully lied because it is difficult to prove that someone is intentionally misstating a material fact, rather than simply testifying honestly from faulty memory.

Stay on the topic, for Pete's sake! We are not dicussing the economy here or how "horrible" or Socialist" Obama is or who caused the recession. That's for another dicussion. We need to examine and frelly debate what our government has apparent ly done in our names. This is a real chance to decide what kind of country we want to be. We have been called a"great experiment". No country on earth was formed it quite the way ours was. At times we have failed, but overall I think we have done pretty well. We have gradually expanded the rights of various groups of people in ways our Founders could only have dreamed of . Politics has always been an issue, often causing on step back after two steps forward, It' the nature of the system. It can be agonizingly slow to some people, but only a dictatorship makes things happen instantly, and I don't think any of us want that. Afew here have made reference to Liberals not understanding the military, conflicts and war in general. We do, believe me. My step-daughter and her fiance are both former Marine helicopter pilots, captains, who went through all the tough training (and it WAS tough!) that Marines go through just to get in. My step-daughter is an Annapolis grad and chose the Marines because she likes a challenga and the idea of serving her country, and she wanted to fly. She got out of flight training just in time for the invasion of Iraq and ended up going ther twice. The first trip wasn't so bad. The Iraqis were inviting her and her buddies into their homes for teas and meals when in their off time, a group of them, led by another captain who spoke Arabic, would go into villages with soccer balls, candy, etc. for the kids and spend afternoons drinking tea with the adults and playing soccer with the kids. But on her second deployment, things had changed readically. They were not allowed offf their FOB unless they were flying (she delivered supplies and picked up wounded GIs and Marines). She wrote they flew mostly at night so they were a harder target. And they didn't visit the villages any more-too dangerous. Some of her buddies didn't make it back. She came home, voted for Kerry, transferred to the Coast Guard where she does search and rescue as well as looking out for illegals, etc. She lost two levels of rank and pay grade, voted for Obama, and is flying still in service to her country. I can tell something happened to her, but she refuses to talk about the war. For all I know she saw some "enhanced interrogation".or knew people involved in it. I just don't know, but she is not quite the same person. Of course you can imagine what her Dad and I, as well as her Mother and step-dad went through while she was over there, and it had nothing to do with politics. We were lucky. We got her back in one piece. Others are not so lucky. Don't be so quick to assume that Liberals don't understand, at least as well as anyone else who has had a loved one in the wars. And, belive me, we were quit aware of what could happen to her if she were shot down and captured. That makes me all the more determined to see our country behave according to the rules of war. They count, though as some have expressed, it seems like an oxymoron to me: rules in war? If she had been captued, I would have prayed that her captors treated her as we claim to treat our prisoners and not have our example as an excuse to do what they have done to so many. BTW, when I read the Decaration and the Constitution, I see the spirit of them applying to people, not just those lucky enough to be citizens of this country by birth, pure accident, or naturalized, conscious choice. Someone else mentioned that. Go back and check out the Magna Carta, the Great Writ, about a thousand years old, which developed into one of the most important bases of our legal system.. It applies, believe me, and was one of the greatest break-throughs in the rule of law ever! Without it, we would not have our present system. For those bemoaning the loss of free speech: if you are so fearful, what are you doing on this website? Are Obama's secret police at your door yet?

Chuck, you make me chuckle! Your comment is possibly the most unfounded ridiculous thing I have seen on this site today, and that is an accomplishment considering some of the company we are in.

...and leave it to Pat G to agree with such nonsense.

Let's be sure to make an appointment for you ASAP.

Great Steph, you're next!

Waterboarding is to good for these people, just behead them like they would us!

what's the big deal? man, waterboarding is great, when you catch a good wave, awesome! we're taking terror dudes waterbarding, no fair!

So why don't you cmon-864012 and Stephanie the honeymoon suit at the hotel Guitamano, where they'll water board you both.

Water boarding is extreme torture. Beheading isn't torture, it's killing. Let's clear up the definitions. Ugh. What I must do to make this a better place.

poppinmary, The beheading follows the torture. We at least stop.

It's funny no one cried for me when I went through SERE school in the Army. They performed water boarding and lots of other stuff on us. Why? Because they knew, that's what the enemy does. What makes us so different? Just because a bunch of bleeding heart cry babies who only know what they get spoon fed from the media happen to say. Oh, boo hoo... that's mean... Yes, war is mean.

The point is we don't torture, so they don't do it to us. How can we expect other countries not treat our POW's in this way if we cant offer the same. Plus if you have to waterboard someone 83+ times its obviously ineffective and just a cruel amusement for some.

Giving, receiving, or just watching?

I hate to tell you folks this, but Waterboarding is really worthless. What works is real torture when others are present - look at history at any one empire! But Americans will never be able to stomach this in this day and age. There is a reason for the saying an Eye for Eye.....

War is mean clansman, but there are still rules. (no land mines, chemical or biological warefare) No one cried for you because it was your choice to be waterboarded in the Army, you didn't have to join. What's more is you didn't have information they were trying to extract. I know our enemies may use these techniques, but Clansman, we live in a society that claims to be "better." Are we not above our enemies?

Actually, torture is flat out worthless. You're more likely to get a false confession and false information just so that it stops. It makes the information worthless because you can't trust it. If you look at the use of torture throughout history, it all points to this. Torture is ineffective as a tool to get a genuine response. Oh, and Theclansman, you CHOSE to get that training. It was your choice and it was in preparation for other countries that do use torture so that you would hopefully not have to suffer the mentally and emotional scars to the same extremes as other torture victims do, and to prevent you from breaking under torture. Again, I state that this was your CHOICE. You didn't have to do it and that's what makes it different.

Big Paul is right. "Torture Light" is a joke, it's illegal and I doubt it works. Extreme physical pain, burning and mutilation is more effective. But we can't do that so the point is moot. The trick is to capture on the battlefield someone with a weapon - you have the absolute right to kill - then torture out in the field. Bring the SOB back to base and they are a POW, protected by the Geneva Conventions. Of course CIA pussies never venture into "hot zones", so the Intel would belong to Army. Can't have that, can we?

There is a good article about the (lack of) effectiveness of torture written by a retired Marine major at

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/10/torture_as_an_interrogation_te.html

Check it out.

Okay liberals, what’s wrong with this picture?? We have a smiling Obama shaking hands with Hugo Chavez. This guy has murdered thousands of political opponents, subsidizes FARC, and his country ranks in the lowest 10% on human rights due to corruption and death squads. On the other hand we have Bush/Cheney/Rice torturing terrorists American style; no deaths or physical after effects. Liberals want to enter into a relationship with Hugo that will likely cost us billions and put Americans working to protect Americans in jail.

Kerry-500201

The point is we don't torture, so they don't do it to us. How can we expect other countries not treat our POW's in this way if we cant offer the same.

Cite me one example of when our not torturing has prevented our enemies from torturing ours. Don't worry, I'll wait......

Plus if you have to waterboard someone 83+ times its obviously ineffective and just a cruel amusement for some.

Sign a waiver and let us waterboard you. Only then you will have the credibility to speak of it's effectiveness. Until then.....STFU!!!!!

Wow... Mr. C your gifted ability for discussion of controvertial subjects is astounding. I so wish I could explain myself with such dignity and eloquence.

Nice MR C. to offer me up for waterboarding when your the advocate......you can keep the ST....FU!

I think Cheney should be the one who gets water-boarded. This issue was practically a NON-ISSUE which seemed like the Obama Administration was going to try and sweep under the rug until he started opening up his pie hole! President Bush is doing the honorable thing and spending time in Dallas with his wife, enjoying life right now. Cheney should have done the same, but NO...he wants to try and keep his old crusty robster-craw on the power button and he's looking more pathetic by the day.

So, waterboarding is okay after all? As long as it's along party lines. LOL.

Typical.

kit:

Nope. I just think Dick Cheney should get water-boarded. That's it!

But JoJo, it would have been more comedic if when Cheney attended Obama's inauguration, the woman pushing him in his wheelchair had just let go when she was wheeling him down the ramp onto the platform at the Capitol. He would have picked up speed quickly, given his fatness, and jettisoned off the platform over the assembled crowds on the Mall, plopping finally into the Potomac.

Now THAT would be the way to waterboard Ol' DICK! :-)

Cheney does love water-boarding. Eeew.

Tom i thought the same thing as I was watching...wishful thinking I guess.

Cheney in his wheelchair and that permanent snarl on his face looked like Peter Sellers from "HOw we learned to love the bomb" by Kubrick He looked like an evil Nazi just dying to get his hands on somebody one last time. How can u not look at Dick Cheney and see evil?

Look at all of you traitors screaming for compassion for the terrorists that kill Americans by not waterboarding them. Yet you have no problem waterboarding Americans that you don't like. You are sellouts to your own philosophy.

The Liberal Mentality: Waterboard terrorists? NO! Waterboard Republican Americans? YES!

When it comes to light that Nancy Pelosi played part in approving these interrogation tactics will you want to waterboard her too? Probably not.

What a bunch of douchbags......

Mr.C:

Hey....BUNGHOLE! Yeah You! How many "terrorists" did the CIA water-board? Huh? From what Cheney is saying, it seems like they only water-boarded a handful. What about all of those "terrorists" down in Gitmo? Huh? Why weren't they water-boarded? Huh? Maybe because there was pause as to who REALLY was a terrorist and who wasn't. What do you think?

It's not about whether the terrorists should or shouldn't have been water-boarded at this point. Some of them were and now it's time to move on from it. What I don't like is Ol' Crusty getting his ugly mug on TV talking smack trying to act like his tenure was the best thing that ever happened to this country. That's what makes me sick. Read post #4.1 because I truly believe this would be an after-thought had he just rode off into the sunset and shut his damn mouth. Cheney is the only one I have a problem with at this point. And be careful who you call traitor dip@!$%#! Some of us have actually served this country and have EARNED the right to speak out!

Take a chill pill JoJo...

Stephanie8

Waterboarding is to good for these people, just behead them like they would us!

Let's just set up a theocracy too. We'll take away the rights of women and give men the right to kill their wives and sisters if they do anything to shame the family. Your logic is extremely flawed.

Since when do we let our enemies set the standard? Since when do we bend our will to meet that of our opponents? You would have us compromise ourselves and lower our standards to match the ones the these pigs set? Shame on all of you.

Nuremberg

Loudmouth,

I absolutely agree with you--the Democrats, including the President, etc.--embraced this "waterboarding" issue/NON-ISSUE--they are proudly running with their "W" banner---AWAY FROM THE the very real --HAPPENING NOW--agenda of changing everything about our country so that the citizens have little to no say in what transpires.

Waterboarding is a controversial subject--yea's and nay's. TAX EVASION is NOT controversial--especially since our President is surrounding himself with those:

Geithner--4 years of unpaid tax (self employment),

Daschle--who withdrew because of his tax problems,

?--one who didn't pay the housekeeper's taxes,

Sebelius--2 problems: UNDERREPORTING contributions (from abortion doctor) and deducting personal taxes she wasn't entitled to--home mortgage interest & tax--she didn't own the property any longer.

Somehow, these brilliant people filed erroneous returns--yet they made sure they took care of them--WHEN THEY WERE NOMINATED!! If they hadn't been nominated, would they corrected them? Apparently not--esp. in Geithner's case. Two of his previous 4 years with unpaid taxes were past the statue of limitations, I believe.

I am so sick of our politicians parading themselves in front of the tv cameras with their "outrage" as they pat each other on the back, accept raises when millions are unemployed, uninsured, etc.--BOTH SIDES!!! WHEN WILL CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT UNDERSTAND: AMERICA IS PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE ALL DOING AND SAYING. WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS PARTISANSHIP!! EITHER YOU CAN WORK TOGETHER (as corporation employees do) or WE FIND OTHERS WHO CAN.

I've never been active in a national election campaign, but plan to this next election year. I won't be looking for a Republican, Democrat, Independent, etc. I'll be looking for a good business person--preferably one who has been successful in running a business!!

Dresden, Hamburg, whatever.

One important factor in HST's decision to use the bomb was this; Even at the cost of thousands of enemy civilian lives, this bomb will maybe save thousands of American soldier's lives. As commander in chief, I am responsible for my soldiers. Go with the bomb(s).

There were other factors, but this was one. How any commander in chief can make a decision that costs, even just maybe costs American lives and property in order to spare the lives, comfort and property of foreigners is beyond me. He's not there for that. Would you vote for him?

I would truthfully hate to compare Nuremberg and the trial of those who knowing committed mass genocide of millions of people to waterboarding of known terrorists who has killed and will kill more innocent people if given the chance. Being retired military myself, I wouldn’t believe 99% of the information received from waterboard or any torture used to gain that information as in as much would I believe 99% percent of information given freely without in both cases investigating. That being said is one innocent life worth the gathering of any information however obtained or is it ok for them to die because of your personal moral belief. I guess I would challenge someone to step closer to the issue, what if the information given would save the life of your loved one, your wife or child, what would you do…would you torture them knowing you still had to follow up, or allow your loved one to possibly die because of your moral conviction, it is a tuff question, I pray you think about that before you respond….

I would truthfully hate to compare Nuremberg and the trial of those who knowing committed mass genocide of millions of people to waterboarding of known terrorists who has killed and will kill more innocent people if given the chance. Being retired military myself, I wouldn’t believe 99% of the information received from waterboard or any torture used to gain that information as in as much would I believe 99% percent of information given freely without in both cases investigating. That being said is one innocent life worth the gathering of any information however obtained or is it ok for them to die because of your personal moral belief. I guess I would challenge someone to step closer to the issue, what if the information given would save the life of your loved one, your wife or child, what would you do…would you torture them knowing you still had to follow up, or allow your loved one to possibly die because of your moral conviction, it is a tuff question, I pray you think about that before you respond….

Sunday, the President, through his spokesman, said unequivocally that there would be no investigations. He wanted to "look forward."

Tuesday, he did a 180 and opened the way.

He's someone's puppet, make no mistake about that. Someone's pulling his strings.

I would truthfully hate to compare Nuremberg and the trial of those who knowing committed mass genocide of millions of people to waterboarding of known terrorists who has killed and will kill more innocent people if given the chance. Being retired military myself, I wouldn’t believe 99% of the information received from waterboard or any torture used to gain that information as in as much would I wouldn't believe 99% percent of information given freely without in both cases investigating. That being said is one innocent life worth the gathering of any information however obtained or is it ok for them to die because of your personal moral belief. I guess I would challenge someone to step closer to the issue, what if the information given would save the life of your loved one, your wife or child, what would you do…would you torture them knowing you still had to follow up, or allow your loved one to possibly die because of your moral conviction, it is a tuff question, I pray you think about that before you respond….

Tom343 - If you knew your history you would know that HST did not know the extant of damage and loss of life the A-Bomb would cause. If he had known, the decision may have been different. He has also been lambasted by both sides for selecting a non-military target and I believe he even made statements about regretting the use of the A-Bomb.

Sick of party squabling,

Since we killed more people when we fire bombed Toyko than we killed using the A-bombs, I seriously doubt your claim that Truman would have made a different decision. Also, both cities were military targets.

of course it is, obama/oprah are masters at manipulating thru the media, which is only too happy to cooperate. by the time obama leaves office, we'll all be working on the obama monument, maybe instead of the twin tower thing, they'll have 100 story statues of obama and michelle... and a cool aid cafe in the base.

I know my history and I don't try to re-write it. If you get someone to read you a book you'll--sorry; I apologize for that; forums should be civil, your "If you knew your history" remark not withstanding.

If you remember your history, you'll that once Truman became president, he was told about the bomb. There were various meetings about what to do with it since Hitler was now history. Many attendees told HST not to use it, and mentioned the power and radiation produced by the Trinity shot, etc., etc.. Much like now some counseled Truman with a misplaced compassion for those who were currently causing more casualties to our men and more damage to our fleet than we had endured before. As others in this forum have noted, the casualties produced in the two atom bombings were really on a par with previous 'conventional' attacks. See Tokyo, Dresden and Hamburg. The new issue, radiation, horrified the world. But many G.I.s and their parents and wives and children wept with joy when the Empire surrendered days later. Truman's choice saved them. It saved probably a million Japanese, too.

Many scientists at Los Alamos wanted no attack on Japan. These same scientists didn't seem to mind dropping the bomb on Berlin. You can read into that whatever you wish. Bur numerous scientists and engineers wanted the bomb used on Japan by all means. These folks had sons, brother, fathers, uncles, cousins who had just endured the particularly nightmareish campaigns around Okinawa and Iwo Jima, and the suicide attacks the Japanese started on an organized basis in the Philippines.

They'll probably go right to the casinos

Rick,

It's not productive to personally attack a person for expressing their exasperation with the NON-PRODUCTIVE Congressional antics!

Allan, Thank you very much for you comments. It really just proves my point about the direction this country is headed. If your scared to pick up a rifle and fight, its ok. You don't have too. No draft is on. But I guess fighting and dying for a cause is just considered welfare. You should really try dedicating yourself to something besides fear. Its very fulfilling.

Let me put a different twist on BOB-101's post:

"... "If we do it to the enemy, they will do it to us." This is the same enemy who cuts peoples heads off on ...."

They cut the heads off of our military and innocent civilians. By this logic we should have done the same to them yet we didn't. We treated them to explicitly restricted techniques that we apply to many of our own military personnel during training.

Bob - Don't listen to the ungrateful libs!!

Thanks for serving. We wonder why some military personal have problems when they return from the war. That have to listen to ungrateful libs!!! That makes me sick!!

No Bob, its the other way around, you are able to do what you do becasue of liberal citizens in this country. You see bob, those of us not in the military, both liberals and conservatives produce ideas, goods and services to this economy. We make new designs that improve how we live, we invent and innovate so this economy can grow. The point is we produce something bob, we don't just shoot it with a gun and call it good. So since you've been in the military the last 20 years your welcome for me paying your welfare check so you could learn to destroy things instead of build them.

The men and women serving in the military are NOT on welfare. They are doing a job that many of us wouldn't be able to do. No, I would never join the military because I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut if I were ordered to do something that violated my every beliefe and would end up getting kicked out anyway. I also can't deal with guns. That's my choice. I'm greatful that there are those who can protect my right to make that choice and won't condemn them for theirs. I do, however, ask that if you really did believe in what you were fighting for and didn't just do it because you got off on killing you respect my freedom of choice considering that is what you were supposedly fighting for. I won't trash you for what you do, but you need me as well. I'm a productive member of society and work hard. Without me and others like me you wouldn't have a job. I'm not lazy, I'm not afraid to stand up for what I believe in, I could just never use a weapon against someone in good conscience. I would rather let them kill me. I would have to say that takes a lot of courage to stand up for my conviction of refusing to kill or harm another human being. It's just a different type of courage.

Josh, it is the citizens of this country (both liberal and conservative) who keep this country economically healthy. I too am educated. I also work and pay taxes. Funny thing about the comment you just made though. Before we were a nation we were an army, navy and marine corp (sorry airforce). We fought for our freedom, once gained we educated and built. We still kept the armed forces for protection and diplomatic reasons as we do today. Think!!!! how long would this nation be around if the military was disbanded.

"Before we were a nation we were an army, navy and marine corp"? What about the pilgrims, the traders at Jamestown, people fleeing religious persecution in England? These were the first settlers. I don't understand this comment.

We, Bob? You weren't there, and the nation that was built out of our forefathers was one that embraced slavery, no rights for women, and the principle that "those that own the country ought to govern it." The U.S. that exists today was built by our fathers and to a small extent our grandparents. As greatful as we should be to our forefathers they made a lot of mistakes that have taken almost 3 centuries to fix and some still aren't fixed. Bob, there are many nations out there that spend fractions what we spend on our military and they are doing fine. Don't get me wrong, I love this country bob, but as I'm sure you know there are many, in fact most countries out there that enjoy the same principles of freedom that we do. I'm not saying I want to move there, but I do realize that this isn't the only place in the world where I can get a coke, eat McDonalds and watch MTV and reality TV and not be disappeared by my government. Its my opinion bob that we spend, as a country, way to much on our military. We have fighter jets that are easily 14 years ahead of everyone else. Do you realize how much money military contractors make? We do not need a military this size, we did not need to go into Iraq. We did not need to go into Iraq in the early 90's. These wars in no way have protected me. To my knowledge, and correct me if I'm wrong bob since you were in the military, isn't it called "Operation Iraqi freedom?" I mean, doesn't that mean its an operation for the freedom of Iraqi's? I'm sorry, I just think if it was for our freedom it would be called "Operation American freedom." The age of war is over bob, its necessary to defend yourself I understand, but I don't see how its necessary to have a fighting force capable of taking on the whole world. Its not necessary, unless your the bully everyone wants to see fall.

Laura, Jamestown settlement and the Pilgrims were the first europeans to establish themselves in America. This encouraged others to come and settle. Which turned into a revolution. So on and so forth. Sorry your not following.

Josh, to the extreme. Yes there are alot of other countries who have smaller militaries. Countries who are not attacked on a daily basis for their resources. But, most of those countries do not have the resources we have. We probably should have stayed away from Europe during WWI and WWII. There was no immediate threat to us at the time. Talking to Soldiers and Sailors who have been in Iraq, you will find out that the majority of Iraqis are very thankful for us being there. We did liberate them. Should we help others who cannot help themselves if it has no immediate effect on us? Think people don't like us now, how would they feel if we just pulled inside our borders and protected ourselves. By the way, you probably wouldn't be able to get Coke, MTV or BON BONs if there wasn't an America. If I use the word "WE" I am referring to Americans. But I'm thinking you got that.

Josh, Allen and Rick - finally some honesty from liberals. Refreshing.

It must be a load off your backs to finally be free from towing the party lie of supporting the military but not the mission. You liberals have always hated the military and soldiers. They're just so brutal, uneducated and distasteful, aren't they? You hate them, and it must feel good to finally say it.

Let's hear you hypocrites backpedal out of this one now, please - or continue to show your true colors to the world.

Thanks, Bob. I know the average soldier is MORE educated than the average American, and you've shown it by standing up to these arrogant psuedo-intellectuals while keeping your cool! Is this really what you and so many other fellow brutes fought for? Maybe in the end it really was just for your "welfare" checks, as the ideals you fought for are being flushed down the toilet faster than you can say "trillions" by the same liberals that think they're too superior for the brutish capitalist system also.

Bob - 101 - Thank you very much for your service in protecting our country. I am truly sorry for people like Allan - 436024 and alot of people on this post like him. What a shame that they are like this. 9-11 still bothers me all the time and the fact that it happened and I am worried about what may happen soon. I only hope and pray that we survive and can make it through. But people like Allan are dividing this great country. Even more what a shame that the current President needs to be doing this now. This is another promise that he made and now has gone back on. I wonder who will be in charge tomorrow.

Tyler, you kidding? All I see from "the other side" is verbiage laced with personal attacks, name-calling and nothing much in the way of adherence to the COH.

If this was a community meeting, all the bullets you've heard about flying off the gun-store shelves would be flying past every good Dem's head. It reminds me of the abortion doctor who was shot through his kitchen window and murdered at night by a hate-filled sniper cowering in the woods nearby (and yes, here in the US).

I think thou doth protest too much - and its truly misdirected!

Tyler, all differences aside. The idea of this blog is to discuss. We are doing so. I do not agree with all that is said here, but, I do respect everyones right to say it. I'm not going to go running off to whoever is in charge because someone tries to slap me in the face with an uneducated comment. I just roll with it and keep going. I will say that if anyone has been hurt by comments made by me here then I am sorry, with the exception of Rick and Allan. Their comments were uncalled for and I stand by my responses. Respectfully, BOB_101

MOOOOOOO.

We are held to a higher standard and should obey our laws.

I don't believe we should do anything to those who were following orders, but the record should be set straight for future administration boundaries.

You can't make it up as you go along.

Runawaysteer, You also cannot defend a Country with a bunch of weak minded cowards. I still haven't seen the pictures of these guys with missing teeth, eyes, heads!!!. You know, the scars that TORTURE leave on people. Although I do see the results, everyday, of the information gleaned from water boarding. Americans walking around free and safe.

So, it is not against Islamic law to have televised beheadings, OF OUR PEOPLE, which then gives them a pass. Wonderful.

Bob: This one is a slippery slope and I understand we need to do as much as possible to protect American lives, but we must do it based on our founding principles.

Our constitution is sacred and can only be interpreted collectively.

The patriotic American in me says "screw them, do what is necessary to make them talk" but as one who has taken the oath to protect & defend our constitution, I feel we must not take from it or add to it unless it is done in the light of day legally.

I arrested scumbags on a daily basis and still have to remind myself of their rights even when they confess their guilt to me with a smile.....I'm sure you can imagine what the patriotic side of me would like to do to em'.

Checks & balances work for the long run.

Again, just my opinion.

Bull, sorry about the steer comment, wasn't needed or necessary of me to do that. You, of course are correct. It is a slippery slope. But, the Constitution does not address issues of war. That is addressed under the Genevoa Convention. But being that this is not a conventional war, we have to use unconventional means to defend ourselves. I do not condone the use of torture at all, but, I also don't consider waterboarding torture. It is a major inconvenience though. By the way, thank you for your service.

Thanks Bob, our love for this great nation is obviously mutual....personally I see WB as you do.

I laughed about the steer thing and thought to myself "I would be if my wife had anything to say about it"

I Love my country! If waterboarding protects it in any small way it is fine by me. Obama continues to send drones into Pakistan, the same as Bush to kill people. Well guess what? People are some how concerned with waterboarding? And some of those people killed are children...NO ONE seems to care about that. So it is there fore ok to KILL but NO WATER in the face? Makes sense to me, guess it just depends on which political party is doing the killing? Waterboarding is fine! KILLER drones are fine!

Bob and Bull,

You are correct that the protections of the constitution do not apply to war.

If we were fighting uniformed soldiers from France, Russia, Germany (or any signatory to the Geneva Convention), the Geneva convention would certainly have been violated by waterboarding, or any other coersive techniques, mental or physical (note 'torture' is not the litmus test under Geneva). Americans are bound by law to follow it, as it was a treaty we agreed to. HOWEVER- the articles of the Geneva Convention are VERY specific as to who is protected by it, and if everyone would take the time to READ it , the debate would be over in short order.

1. Geneva applies between two conflicting nations that are both SIGNATORIES to the treaty. Al Queda (or other Radical Islamic Groups) are not signatories.

2. Geneva protects UNIFORMED soldiers who are acting under a chain of authority of the signatory nation. Ununiformed spies or independant actors are not protected. Al Queda (or other RIG's) deliberately hide amongst civilians without uniform, and are certainly not acting under the command of any signatory nation.

3. Al Queda (or other RIG's) do not adhear to the Geneva Conventions in their conflict with us. Take your pick - inhumane treatment (beheadings, dismembering, disfiguring, etc.), specifically targeting citizens (9/11, London transit, Spanish train, hotels, nightclubs, markets...). Even if they were signatories, they would not be protected under the conventions because they would have broken the conditions.

4. WE (the US) are not in violation of the Geneva treaties regarding signatory nations, so are not in violation of any American or international laws. Accordingly, our soldiers are NOT at increased risk for harsh treatment from them.

We COULD torture, mame, disfigure, but we DON'T, so we still claimed the high moral ground before Mr. Nice Guy was elected. Agree with waterboarding or not, it was not against the law. It's a matter of POLICY by presidential order that it is NOW illegal to waterboard. The prosecution and persecution of harsh interrogations before Obama's presidential order are a distraction from the real issues of today, an attempt to have our minute of hate for Bush continue while our government continues to pillage our treasury (not that there's really any treasury left!) and continues the socialist power-grab.

What's really more important; revenge against Bush, the First Dog, or the complete abandonment of the American way? If you read the headlines, it's in this order. Of course, you'ld have to squeeze in Madonna's adoptions and Miss America's affront to gays after the First Dog story, and before the USSA story.

If he lets this charade go on, everything's going to come out.

This is going to turn into a circus and if you don't think the last administration is going to let it all come out at that point, you're kidding yourself.

Pelosi is no doubt already meeting with her lawyers.

Hank in Maine

Pelosi OK'ed it too. Is Obama going to leave to door open to prosecute her too?

As sad as it is there is a law that protects Pelosi and other members of Congress from prosecutions for 'bad decisions' they made when policy making. This is why she welcomes the investigations. She will most likely be immune to prosecution and she knows it.

senator Bob Graham, D-Fl, could not recall any briefings, right!

Pelosi golden shower boards Frank herself, and they both volunteer.

Apparently you are not on top of the news. Pelosi could NOT have ok'ed the waterboarding because she doesn't have the type of clearance that would give her access to that information. Get up to date information before you post.

Simulated waterboarding! Like Hollywood freaks playing, simulating, heroes in the movies. Or Pelosi telling, simulating, the truth.

Thanks Scott, you nailed it! The media gets all of the citizens playing against each other to sell stories.

I have noticed that when you take out the shock value, many of us, whether Rpub or Dem or whatever, think the same way. But they play us to divide and keep the arguments open. How's the song go..'if you own the airways, what ya see is what ya get?'

Democrats/Liberals/Progessives/Marxists will do anything and tell any lie they need to grab more power. Pretty hard to fight it when the you have the only protector of public rights, the media, ABCNBCCBSCNNPBSNPRMSNBCCNBC, as a political parties propaganda machine.

The gang is (was) Bush ,Cheney, and Rumsfeld. Those three alone with their personal agendas (not americas) just did whatever the F@#$% they wanted and it helped no one.

Get some reality.

Well said, Hosethemdown. Obama and the ACLU will bring our country down quicker than the terrorists. Water boarding (aka "torture") wasn't harsh enough for them!

P44, Obama supporters are sympathizers with those who cut the head off Danny Pearl, those who flew a planeload of American people into the Pentagon filled with Americans, those who flew two planeloads of American people into the WTC filled with Americans, and those who flew a planeload of Americans supersonic into the ground in Pennsylvania. Obama supporters have more pent up anger and animosity at America and are willing to take harsher action against their own American citizens than they are against avowed killers of Americans, kids, innocents. Obama supporters are shameful, pathetic, and deserving of corporal punishment. If only there was a way to fully place the burden of Obama supporter idiotic security decisions and attitudes on the Obama supporters alone while sparing the rest of us and America. But alas, we are left to fend for ourselves and plot out a survival plan for the looming time when the Obama follies mature as prophecized.

God Bless the torturers? Can you really say that with a straight face?

I really cannot understand this. The USA is the greatest country in the world because we have laws and we follow them. How many times did the Bush camp say "The USA does not torture"? How many international agreements have we signed that prevent torture? How many foreign nationals have we prosecuted for torturing our citizens?

How far do you let the government go before you realize it has gone too far? How much do you justify in the name of fear before you realize you've lost what makes the USA such a great country to begin with?

I am not a fan of Obama (not a fan of Bush either, to be fair), but I do applaud his effort to bring this these illegal, and immoral, actions to an end.

Hiroshima, mom amour

"God bless Ms. Rice, Mr. Cheney, Mr. Ashcroft, Mr. Bush, and Mr. Rumsfeld for having America as their home, their country, and in their hearts. To heck with the rest of you who are engaged in the destruction of America's economy, traditions, institutions, and national security. There is nothing more hideous than a pansy bully and his gang, like the Obama administration gang"

WOW! Unfreakingbelievable statement! Engaged in the distruction of America's economy???? WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK ALLOWED THEIR RICH FAMILY AND FRIENDS TO RAPE THE NATIONAL TREASURE????? A pansy bully and his gang?????? LIKE THE ONE WHO WENT AWOL WHILE IN THE NATIONAL GUARD AND GOT HIS DADDY TO FIX IT FOR HIM????? OR THE ONE WHO GOT FIVE DEFERMENTS BECAUSE "MY PRIORITIES WERE IN A DIFFERENT PLACE IN THE '60'S"?????? BUT NEITHER ONE SEES A PROBLEM SENDING OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN TO DIE FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL PROFIT!!!!!

How the HELL could you make such a statement? Unless....wait a minute.....Rush? is that you? Tired of lying on the radio and starting to post your lies on blogs now? Or out of Oxy and can't sleep? No Viagra left so you can't wack off to pictures of Condi? Or Bush?

Project44,

Where is your outrage going to be when some fantiac walks in to a local mall,movie theater,football game and kills innocent people?

If you think it can't happen here then you are really unaware what is going on in the world...

Democrats are so weak on national security...Will they ever learn that there is people out there that would lop their heads off given the chance...

I am not a fan of Obama (not a fan of Bush either, to be fair), but I do applaud his effort to bring this these illegal, and immoral, actions to an end.

If only Obama supporters were so energetic in bringing the illegal and immoral actions of the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and communist despots to an end. Then we wouldn't need waterboarding.

Knowing that the Islamic militants know no bounds whatsoever, and knowing what they would do to my children at the first opportunity (like Obama is giving out of ignorance or maliciousness or both), nothing is off limits to put a stop to them. You Obama supporters sacrifice yourselves and your children, but keep your pansy policy paws off of the rest of us Americans.

Obama supporters call controlled discomforts applied to murdering evil butchers torture. I call them just desserts. The terrorists (man created disasterists to Obama) are not covered by the Geneva Conventions and are not POWs and do not deserve any protections. In fact, they should have been executed in the field.

Bush and HIS gang were the evil. Who was going to save us from them?

Without the waterboarding the LA tower would have been hit. It was next on their agenda. I take it you don't live, or work, near the tower? No, didn't think so.

America is currently negotiating with Obama for its release. So far the demand is a few trillion dollars and a demotion in rank to third world status.

Am i mistaken? was it not Bush who ushers the Bin Laden family out of the US right after 9/11? Am i mistaken that Bush and co. almost immediately changed direction and let Osama walk off into the hills and turn all his focus on Irac,,, to the plans that were in process since 2001?, long before 9/11 just made it easier for him and his neocons to go after the oil rich country which had been their goal all along? Am i mistaken when i saw Bush change his reasoning to evade Irac time after time when he was proven wrong. For those of you out there still believing in the crap Bush and company strewed about, you really need to open your eyes and let the facts be your guide. It's sad to see how many of you that he was able to frighten into submission to his wishes. Do yourselves a favor and read some history on the necon agenda,,see the names associated with this movement,,u will see the name Bush as one,,Rumsfeld as another,,etc. Put the puzzle together piece by piece,,it's all there to see. That's if you can come out from under the bed that he had you hiding under.

Yes, you are mistaken.

Project44 - Ok so President Clinton did not have his own agenda in the oval office to satisfy himself and did not pay attention to all the warnings that came our way - hence why 9-11 happened!!! Please be careful what you say - it just might come back and BITE you. Watch your accusations unless you want to go back to Clinton.

bobr, you are NOT mistaken... The only people flying for the next 3 days after 9/11 were our military jets - and private charters shuttling a little over 110 Saudi nationals out of the country, much to the chagrin and disgust of the FBI who wanted to question them all.

BTW - and I ask this of all you Bush supporters - where is Bin Laden? 9/11 occurred 8-months after Bush & Co took over the country. I was just wondering...

It's not all about water boarding,,it's about ALL the lies that the Bush Admin. put out there for you righwingers to hide behind. It's about not taking responsibility , it's about pinning the blame on others and walking away from it as nothing happened. It's about the people who took the blame for Bush/Cheney/Rice, not by their own choosing but by lies and deceit and still to this day have not been exonerated for it but left as a scapegoat for the guilty. It's a about an Administration who had an agenda for a few, not the country. It's about the corrupting our government to enhance their own ideals. That,,is what this is about, taking responsibility for their actions, maybe soon we will see this brought out into the open, maybe then we can move forward and out of the hole Bush dug for us.

Karl

If they were a Republican he would say that it was deserved.

Jowand, You are wrong and brainwashed. Conservatives and more and more normal liberals would say that there are consequences to evil deeds. As smart people of the world know that it has always been a battle between good and evil and always will be as long as people exist.

What makes this battle so very difficult is that everyone thinks they are a good. Such as Stalin. I am sure his Mom cuddled him and told him he was a very good boy. I am sure he thought he was great and his ideas very selfless with good intentions and would never let a good crisis go to waste either.

Why would a current sitting Administration (no matter who they were) with non watch dog corrupted State sponsored media demonize America so much so, to the point it is almost like a full time job employing millions domestically and contracting out globally with extreme radicals. Why the blood thirst for President Bush? He is no worse than any other president and better than most. I think because President Bush made a great showing after 9/11 and went after the terrorists and their allies. The current Administration has to make a showing to fellow Muslims. Thus, make a legalistic society so that anyone who disagrees with Obama can be silenced forever, but hey it is okay as it was done legally. Inspite of the fact that it is a political legal system, corrupt to the core to ensure continued 1 party rule and ultimate goal of global domination. Everyone knows there will eventually be a show down.

Well maybe if the terrorists would use sanitary swords to behead it would not be considered torture, just removing a non-indigenous 2 legged carbon based species (with souls) from the earth.

"You just got to love them, they do not mean to be naughty." That type of thinking will get all Americans dead. Yes, Virginia they do mean to be naughty and are a grave threat to America and the world.

Read Stephen King's THE STAND. It's a good look in the mirror...

Dick, we waterboarded the wrong guys. Iraq did not attack us; 15 of 19 aboard were Saudis. Geez, can't you gadflies get anything right?

Altho I do not agree with torture, niether do I agree with Obamas plan of just playing nice nice with our enemies... I think an good investigation is warranted.. but we must remember.. the Democrats knew all about this too.. they must investigate thier own as well as the others.

Rick,

Okay,the 9/11 attackers were Saudis,i will give you that....Would you be okay with weatherboarding Saudis?

From what i know about Weatherboarding,most of these people were captured in Afghanistan....Is that correct?

Iraq?.....we are talking terror attacks on the USA and stopping them...Iraq?????? Terrorist...get it??????????

GregL, it might have been prudent to question the 110 Saudi nationals Bush & Co allowed to fly out in the days immediately after 9/11. At least that's what the FBI wanted to do, but Bush gave the Saudis a free pass out of town. And BTW, where is Bin Laden?

Richard Noel, Iraq did not attack America. Try reading a newspaper every now and again...

never said Iraq attacked the USA...We are talking terrorists...get you head out of your A** and wake up...Terrorist are terrorists wherever they come from.. Apprently water boarding averted some other attacks on the USA or should we wait till afterwards to find out what we could have found out ahead of time...Guess under your thinking Hitler was just a guy with a funny mustache...

Apparently water boarding averted some other attacks on the USA

Hey Richard, not even your favorite VP with 7-deferments can cite one instance where torture averted an attack on US soil (or interests). They've challenged him on that issue and slunk back under the rock from which he came.

so it seems or not????....the fact that we have not been attacked on US soil doesn't mean that the NSA is getting their info from CNN...I can rest assured that terrorist info has come from terrorist themselves unwilling to died for their cause... they are the same people that tell suicide bombers to blow themselves up but are not willing to do it themselves....Think people need to wake up to reality ...God Bless America.......you will take a diffrent tone as soon as we get attacked again and then you will say "wondered how that happened??????? Why didn't someone stop it."

You all do realize that we prosecuted the Japanese after WWII for waterboarding our captured US soldiers because that broke the geneva convention laws. Why was it wrong then but ok now?

We are a nation of laws. If you support our government feeling free to circumvent and ignore them at any time for any reason then why bother having any laws at all? You are all for impeachment and hanging of the current adminstration for secretly breaking or ignoring laws and regulations, but when it comes to the Bush adminstration with proof that they did this, you want to give them a pass?

From what I have read, I get the feeling that you don't really care if the government breaks the law as long as you benefit from it, however as soon as it either cost you money or infringes on your personal life or rights, then it is deemed wrong and the scondrels must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Unreal.

Hey Dumba$$, the Army was not doing the water-boarding. I just retired from the Army so and IF you are really an Army Vet, you would know that as a Soldier, I would saw your friggin arms off if it would save me fellow Soldier. If you would not do the same, I doubt that I could find a single Soldier out there who would want you in their foxhole. I'd also bet that there would be one armless idiot who wouldn't f%$K with me or my Soldiers again.

P.S. - Have a nice day.

Angry.

No..I am a very happy, calm and collected. I also ended my well-thought out comment with "Have a nice day"; and I meant it.

On the other hand, all kinds of things can happen on the battlefield. A muslim would look pretty stupid in heaven with Allah without his freakin head!

Which truth serum would that be? Sodium pentathol? GHB? LSD? All have been tried and all produced gibberish. Sodium pentathol overdose leads to death. GHB overdose induces coma. LSD experiments ended famously when one subject leapt up, declared "I am free!" and jumped out the window.

There never was a Truth Serum. There was an ELF transmitter attached by electrodes to the head. Mind control device depicted in the Manchurian Candidate. A descendant of Soviet "Woodpecker" technology. Very effective in North Korean and Soviet hands. And now we have it! Yay!

Yes and IF Clinton had only gave the order to shoot Bin Laden when they had him in the cross hairs of a gun. There may not have been any intel for Bush to read... This can go on forever with the blame game.. It's Obama's decisions now that are going to effect this county and by him releasing the play book for the world to see he has not none us any favors... I still say this is just a ploy to get the attention off the spending spree and the socialist agenda that Obama is trying to shove down our throat..

If you believe this @!$%#, you are an idiot. Clinton did nothing to stop terrorism except say if you do it again, you are in trouble.