But aren't we talking about pictures of PEOPLE, people who were beaten and tortured and in some cases naked and probably wouldn't want these pictures released?

I have mixed feelings about this issue.

This is double talkism on the part of Obama. As usual. And an art he is trying to perfect.

Well now, let's see if the left goes after Obama the same way they did when Bush ran into this very same issue.

I don't think there is a lot of conviction on either side, it"s about partisan politics as usual. Neither side cares about anything except smearing the other side.

Obama's new can of worms is set to backfire in a big way. Any/all harm that comes our way will be blood on his hands.

They will be leaked i promise you that.

Obama is trying to save face just in case there is terrorist fallout from it so he can say he was against the release of the photos.

They will be released somehow. Obama is under the assumption that most people are uniformed and stupid. I may not disagree with him on THAT point, but, that is what he thinks. All he needs is for the press to spin it right.

Just like he is doing with ACORN.

Anybody want to bet?

My first thought is that Obama is waiting to release the pictures when it suits his purposes. When he needs to distract the public's attention from what his administration is really about, the photos will be released and then we will hear a media outcry and the pictures will be released and we won't hear anything but "look what the wicked Bush administration did"...all the while Obama and his cohorts just slammed us with another tax or another shameful stimulus or another sham of a bail out so they can pad their pockets some more with tax-payer dollars, or cap and trade, which is another tax, or card check, which benefits labor unions. How come we don't here about these newsworthy stories? Because the media is too busy trying to come up with feel-good stories about the Obamas or what the Bush administration did or didn't do instead of taking care of the business at hand and reporting the facts of the current administration.

I'm sorry. Seeing those photos will produce what constructive outcome? Since the election, many have chosen to move forward. We can't change the past. I don't disagree some members of the previous admin deserve to be tried for war crimes, but what benefit is there to pics of "our" victims. We knew it was going on and did very little about it then. It's over.

Obama should not be allowed to prevent the release of these photos thinking this will imperil our troops.

To release them will instead inform other countries that he insists on transparency which will enhance the perception that he is not just going to continue the criminality of the Bush administration!

I DON'T buy this argument of not releasing the photos. If he doesn't we will be perceived as the SAME goons on the battlefield who have abandoned all rules of conduct, and that perception will be correct.

In addition, I don't believe protecting the troops is the REAL reason anyway. It is to allow war crimes to continue to go unaddressed at deeper levels and to tamp down public outrage which is what they're REALLY afraid of.

Let sleeping dogs lie, keep it under the carpet, huh, Obama. LIAR.

Lisatal

You are absolutely right. They will release these pictures at the right time.

The ole slight of hand

I see something else brewing with the U.N. Do not be surprised to see a LOT more power given to the U.N. when its time comes soon.

There is a HUGE catastrophe coming, i just can't put my finger on it yet.

Carlos- I disagree with you, because it was not the Republican party that initiated any of this. Just like Pelosi took it upon herself to inititate a statement about how "she was personally unaware of what was going on" when it is an undeniable & proven fact that she did. Now, so far, she's got 4 different stories out, one lie to cover up another..It never ends with these people....One thing is clear- when you start shaking the pot, you never know what's going to spill out...Hence the administration is taking a backstep and really considering if it's worth it-cause the @!$%#'s definitely going to hit the fan with this one and ultimately backfire on them.

WASHINGTON - Defense and military officials tell NBC News that President Obama will seek to delay the release of hundreds of photos which reportedly depict the abuse of prisoners by U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thank-you for stalling Mr President!

YOU CAN PULL OUR PANTS DOWN IN FRONT OF THE WORLD LATER!

You obviously don't have a loved one who spends time in a combat zone. The release of these images (which were the result of a few rotten apples) will put all of the good men and women serving our country in incredible danger. My husband carries a weapon for self defense only (and has never had to engage it) since he has spent most of his long military career working on humanitarian projects (building hospitals, housing, etc) for impoverished countries all over the world. Many are in combat zones. Would you feel comfortable if men and women like him were killed because of some "holier than thou" attitude you currently share with the ACLU? He is a very loving man and a spectacular father of two small children and shares the same disgust at the thought of the mistreatment of anyone. Is he expendable, just so we can parade some detestable images across the evening news? Don't we get enough of that? I can assure you that there are similar atrocities happening to our troops all over the world already. Would you and the rest of the ACLU be fighting just as hard to get that out? I highly doubt it. I think the ACLU should consider that a few bad apples do not necessarily ruin the entire barrel, but if they push this issue they will be solely responsible for endangering them. Can you (and they) sleep at night with that on your conscience? Consider all the ripples that occur after you throw a pebble in the water. Attend a military member's funeral who has been killed in combat once. It will change you forever.

Take it one step further. Release any photos you want that we took of our prisoners. But also, release the videos and photos (gory details and all) of the beheadings of victims by terrorists (e.g. Daniel Pearl). I do not necessarily condone our actions, but at least put them in perspective.

Another thought. Keep GITMO open, but have Red Cross or other appropriate humanitarian workers on site 24/7. This would solve both problems of where to put the enemy combatants, yet also have openness as to how well we are treating them.

Ya that all we need over here. Now once the President releases the pictures we can all worry about reprisal fights and snipers again. If they capture one of us we can worry about being "Really" tortured and then have our beheading posted to YOUTube. Thanks America, Like we dont have enough worries already. Just through a nuke on the fire next time.

The US has turned into a piece of SH*T. While were are all over here trying to ensure that all goes good for these poor folks. After the photos are realsed lets see how many Iraqi translators stick around to help out and how many Imams stick the necks out to grant us safty when passing threw a questionable area. This adminstration just wants to screw us any way it can. It appears they want a large US body count, and are putting us in a situation where things are going to become unstable again like in 2005.

This really makes me thing that the "O" admin doesnt want us to win.

You democrats back in the states have lost your moral compass and have know idea which way is up or down. Not only will this endanger us serving in the box, but it will make the CONUS a more desirable target.

"Great JOB"!

frangipani, so you think it is correct that we are "goons on the battlefield who have abandoned all rules of conduct"? How do you feel about our enemy who videotapes beheadings of innocent victims? I guess that's America's fault also. People like you make me sick. excuse me while I go toss my lunch.

As usual, we allow the Question (harm to troops) frame the argument.

We are such dunces. So, so easy.

Go deeper people, go BEHIND the question.

And just what rules should there be on a battlefield. It is ok for us to abide by them. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER GUYS. Idiotic comment. You apparently don't have a clue what really takes place on a battlefield. NONE

Now that Pelosi is under investigation for her cover up of what she knew when she knew it, and was she and other leading Demos approved. Sure the president doesn't want these photos released, plus it will inflame the whole middle east once again, and the "war" will be Obama's. Good luck Democrats, looks like you all have a catch 22 on your hands.

Westbury, fortunately I am not so thin-skinned as yourself and kneejerk insults to the point where I vomit.

You are the perfect media tool.

It makes no sense to be stirring up an ants nest. Releasing those photos will only justify the Talibans and extremists claim that Americans are wicked. Why should all the troops be punished for actions of a few. No wonder troops are coming home in body bags everyday, simple because of some bleeding heart Americans who wants to tell them to fight fair. Are the Talibans fighting fair when they are beheading an american soldier and video taping it, and posting it on the internet for his family to see? Are they fighting fair when they strap bombs to kids and women and send them running into american troops? Were the Talibans being nice when they flew planes into the WTC, killing thousands of people, not to mention even at the Pentagon. You bleeding heart and belly aching Americans need to wise up. It is bad enough Bush ordered an invasion to rid the world of Talibans whose religion teach them that death for them is drama worth their wiles, because they going to be reincarnated as a king with many wives. But if you have to fight win. Some of you bleeding hearts will stop with the griping when after sending off your children to school, only to get that call that Talibans blew up their school or something to that effect. Are you being on a train and never make it home. They attack you once they will do it again. Most of you people especially from these civil liberties places that are flapping your gums are the ones that does not have a son or daughter in the war, NO they are in some cozy 9-5 job, where their only danger is getting a paper cut. If you never got the memo, it read "the world is a very ugly place - expecting the world to treat you nicely because you are a good person, is like expecting a raging bull not to charge at you because you are a vegetarian.

I really am NOT upset by anything we (USA) did to obtain information!! Let us not forget the be-heading of OUR service men. Let us not forget the hanging and dragging them through the streets. But your upset over dog poop on thier bodies?? Or water boarding??? They lost thier rights and stop being so ignorant, dog poop washes off and these people will still be alive after this. Why dont you judge other countries. Freedom of information has gone way to FAR.!!!

Enlighten us Frangipani, enlighten us. Tell us what is BEHIND the question.

Fact is 1screaminEagle nailed it. We are more concerned about making sure that when one of our service memebers screw up that we broadcast it to the world and damn the safety of the soldiers, sailors, marines, and any other American that it may endanger.

Please tell me, why are we not broadcasting all of the attrocities that are committed around the world to Americans in foreign jails by other governments? The same Americans that are found guilty by kangaroo courts, or summarily found guilty and just tossed in and left to rot for years without a trial? See how you fair in a Mexican prison overnight, let alone for years.

Please tell me how exactly release of these pics will benefit us as a nation? Please tell me how the release of these pics will benefit our service memebers overseas? I am not saying those in the pics should not be tried, they should be, but hte release of the pics benefit nobody.

Here is a thought, how about we begin to release the pictures of rape victims here in the US, without their consent. Wont this help us as a nation begin to deal with the attrocity of rape? Dont be stupid, of course not. You do not need a picture to know what is right or wrong and releasing a picture will only put more in harms way than need to be.

Richard Baxter Now that Pelosi is under investigation for her cover up of what she knew when she knew it, and was she and other leading Demos approved. Sure the president doesn't want these photos released, plus it will inflame the whole middle east once again, and the "war" will be Obama's. Good luck Democrats, looks like you all have a catch 22 on your hands.

Looks like the buzzards have come home to roost...

Westbury one more thing.

I did NOT say troops are "goons on the battefield". I said we would be VIEWED as goons on the battlefield continuing the war crimes of the Bush administration w/o honesty and disclosure and that protecting troops is not the motive.

Nor did I make any comparisons between barbaric methods justifying anything.

Use your cortex if you still have one.

Whoa! Evidently the leader of the free world has no objections to releasing pictures of dead American servicemen in their coffins arriving in Dover, Delaware, but is uncomfortable releasing pictures of avowed and captured enemies of our nation, our values, and our religion? What kind of compassion are we dealing with here? Let me ask, "If your son or daughter were murdered by someone, would you want the police to withhold printing the murderer's photo so as not to embarass him or his family?" It didn't take a release from the President to show all, tell all, of the unfortunate Sergeant from Texas who just murdered five of his fellow servicemen. What a strange society we're creating!

Pat Wade....

Mr. Obama can and will "have it both ways"...as usual.

He wanted the photos released, without knowing what he is doing, once again. Then the military experts told him that it was a very bad idea, because of the reasons listed in the article.

So he changes his mind about the photos and now will have us taxpayers paying for a big court tussle with the ACLU.

If the photos get released, Mr. Obama can blame it on the ACLU. If they don't get released, he can look like the wise decision maker who protected the troops.

He started this all, with daily, televised press conferences regarding "torture"...his word, not mine. He first wanted those responsible punished. Then he didn't want them punished...but by that time other groups and governmental employees that Mr. Obama appointed did want people punished. Surely, there will be costly courtroom drama to follow and if turns out people get punished, Mr. Obama will say "it's not my fault...the Attorney General" made the decision.

Mr. Obama never calls "heads" or "tails" when a coin gets flipped. He calls "both".

I guess the question I have is why does the ACLU want the photos released? What do they want to do with them? I have to agree with the military and Obama that releasing them seems like it would inflame both the Taliban and the citizens. The photos would be used against us and our servicement.

What good can come from releasing the photos? I sometime think the ACLU goes after things just because it can, not because it's the right thing to do.

We know there was abuse and torture. I don't think we have to see all the pictures and endanger our troops in the process.

What has happened at GITMO was wrong, but releasing the photos is just as wrong. This action would only serve to incite our opponents and add discrace to this country. There are many agendas that out government is carrying out that the public should not be privy to in order to maintain civility, both here and abroad. This is one of them.

I would like to know what happens to the soldiers that were convicted for torture when all they were doing was following orders that were made legal by the Bush lawyers?

Why are the y people at the bottom always made to pay for the deeds of their superiors?

Are there Before & After pictures of each person?

Someone is going to see a picture of a guy with chemical burns on him and go "look what Bush did!" while the guy's family will be saying "look what Sadam did".

Hmmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously no good will come of this !

Distraction from what's going on at home--- Most Likely !!

Hey ! Let's just shutdown these two battlezones and bring all the troops home. I believe that we will never capture Osama as long as we have thousands of troops in Afghanistan, we need to wait until we comes out, then get him !

Let's stop waisting our Time, our Treasure and our Troops lives with this C--P in these Countries.

By-the-way, I am not a Liberal. I am a Conservative !!

frangipani,

You finished your sentence about goons on the battlefied with..."and that perception will be correct". So how exactly are you NOT saying that the US troops are goons? You are a typical liberal spewing garbage without any regard for the consequences. As others have said, what good comes out of releasing the pictures? Just like Abu Grad pictures, why did they need to be released? All it did was get people tortured and killed in brutal ways, but you don't care about consequences. As long as you believe that you "care" more than anyone else. How about "caring" about the well being of Americans for a change?

Steve,

What about the Congressmen, like Nancy Pelosi, who approved the waterboarding/ I'm sure you want her prosecuted as well. I didn't think so.

I promise you this, If any of my close friends are killed or any soldier under my command are killed or if attacks ramp up on us. upon the relaese of these photos, I will advise my soldiers families to file a law suit against either the "O" admin. or the ACLU for personal injuries/stress and worry, placing their loved ones in a controlable dangerous enviorment or what ever BS they (the soldiers families) can sue for.

To willing go fight is one thing. But to have the Admin. Say not only are you going to fight but we have put our own land mines out there for you to cross prior to fighting the enemy is somthing unforgivable and wrong. Next the "O" admin will say, "We need you to go to AFG and fight the tali. But you will not be issued any bullets or a rifle because we are afraid of you hurting one of them. STU-PID.

In my 12 year carreer I have never seen a president or an american orginazation intentionally make it more dangerous for a soldiers to his or her job. I guess it is true that my parents ( The Baby Boomer Generation) will help be the down fall of our former and glorious way of life. Our country is getting worse I here it everyday from my soldier that have gone home on leave.

I personally think every house hold should be able to watch AL-jazera, and then you truly see what the Arab media depict our country. Even when we do somthing great. there is always a"BUT" in there.

Good night America

Mr. Obama is keeping his campaign promise of CHANGE, changing his mind that is

First release the photos, now delay releasing the photos. There is a story behind this story, time will tell why he has now want the pics delayed, Pelosi, maybe, time will tell.

Enough of the daily speeches, because the next day is a "I take it back, or I really meant to say this, or I really wasn't laughing at the 9/11 joke."

westbury,

may I please correct you for I want members of BOTH parties to be held accountable for ANY actions that are not in the best interest of ALL America.

I am not a blind jackass who thinks one party is to blame for the troubles that seep from the cesspool known as our Capitol.

Odd how you associated Pelosi with waterboarding when it was Bush who had his lawyers rewrite the laws.

Odd how you associated Pelosi with waterboarding when it was Bush who had his lawyers rewrite the laws.

Congress has to approve of everything.

That is not an issue when you are doing the bidding of Congress like obama is now.

Steve-543647 (#1.37): You've made very good points. This "news" has been reported for quite awhile, since at least February of 2006. Several of the photos have been previously released.

As you noted, it's a shame folks are not interested in the egregious facts from 2005 and 2006, rather than political "party bashing".

Here is the real story from a link in the cited article: Sydney Morning Herald article, Feb. 15th, 2006: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/photos-us-doesnt-want-seen/2006/02/14/1139890737099.html

By Matthew Moore
February 15, 2006

"MORE photographs have been leaked of Iraqi citizens tortured by US soldiers at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison on the outskirts of Baghdad.

Tonight the SBS Dateline program plans to broadcast about 60 previously unpublished photographs that the US Government has been fighting to keep secret in a court case with the American Civil Liberties Union.

Although a US judge last year granted the union access to the photographs following a freedom-of-information request, the US Administration has appealed against the decision on the grounds their release would fuel anti-American sentiment.

Some of the photos are similar to those published in 2004, others are different. They include photographs of six corpses, although the circumstances of their deaths are not clear. There are also pictures of what appear to be burns and wounds from shotgun pellets".

this white house is not ready for prime time

What do ya know, "HE GREW A SET". I guess we had enough fine troops killed after the last pictures were released that he changed him mind. Goof for him..........................and of "TROOPS". Ya wanna release the pictures, fine, AFTER, we end these WARS.

He is holding them back just as you Republicans wanted, I suspect it will go through its course in the justice system all the way to the Supreme Court where civil liberty groups will challenge the lower court ruling. So you see it will be up to the Court to release them not President Obama :)

Good move Obama. We dont need to be stoking the flames of anti-American sentiment and endangering our troops. Regardless of your political affiliation this is a smart move. Release them after our troops are home.

The reason Obama keeps changing his mind is because he is the first presidential Press Secretary. He is not making the decision/policy he is simply reporting it. The real decision maker/President is George Soros and his band of hooligans. Obama is our first Presidential News Caster. He reads the script and that is all.

I will release them and we will not appeal (satisfies the lefties who voted for me). Wait a minute, we may lose American lives (won't get those votes in 2012). I know stall and let the judges have to deal with it!! Maybe I should just take a poll!!

O, grow a set and start leading!!!!! Stop running for re-election!!!!!

common sense,
Release them after our troops are home? Fair enough. But do you really think it is only our troops these fanatics go after? Obama opened the can of worms and we are now all "fair game",so to speak. This did not only endanger our troops, but every American, everywhere.

Everything Obama does is political.....this is a White House cover your a$$.....they know you can't appeal the court decision based on a new arguement.....The release of the photos decision will stand.....and Obama can claim he tried to stop it. But the release is what he wants......, I do hope I'm wrong on this one..... and the release is stopped

Old comment, but still makes sense.

Liberals' definition of torture: Having to crawl around on the floor like a dog. Having water poured on you, being naked in front of a bunch of other people, subjected to loud noise and sleep deprivation.

Sounds more like spring break than torture!

Sounds like derrel has been tied up a couple of times and he has a drain in the membrane LOL

Was he saving troops (or anyone else) when he refused to release the photos of the taxpayer funded photo shoot over New York too?

This guy is amazing, his whole campaign platform was "change" and a "more transparent government", he is a complete fraud whose words mean absolutely nothing.

"The only legal option left to the government was to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court. Instead the Obama administration had earlier made the decision to end the appeals and release the photos. "

Kathy-

this white house is not ready for prime time

Maybe their ready for the Gong Show for those old like me and remember that show.

It matters to those of us that know what it takes to lace up our boots so you can have a nice night in your cushy bed.

I don't have a bed Montanaman. I got laid off and lost my apartment.

Sorry to hear that NYCTexan. Praying for you. Hope things get better for you soon.

There was just a recent article on the number of jobs in Western States like Montana versus those available in New York and other large cities. It might we worth going back home to Montana. Better than having no job at all.

DelFairchild you are missing my point. Montanaman is suggesting that we should not ask certain questions if we value our quality of life. He, and maybe you, need to take a fresh look out the window some time and observe the way people are living, or you might be in for a nasty surprise.

NYC - don't make up suggestions that you think I made. I said nothing about asking certain questions. "We are already hated so does it really matter at this point" was the statement regarding the release of the photos. Yeah, it does matter. It matters to every one of US that have served this country. It matters to everyone one of US that have our children serving this country. Ask all the questions that you want, but I never said anything regarding your questions. I've looked out my window. I've been all across this world and we Americans are not hated because of how some terrorists that were captured in war were treated. We have been hated because we are free (you're welcome). We are hated because my wife can vote and show her face. We are hated because we have a house with multiple televisions, a fridge with expiring food, and money in the bank. The majority of the world lives off of less than $3 per day. NYC, you got laid off, but I would bet that you have more than $3 per day, and if you don't, than you are not taking advantage of the benefits this hated country that you live in are providing for you. Go to your local One-Stop office and find them out. Try joining the military and earn some money, but don't assume that I suggest questions shouldn't be answered when you can't seem to understand that your quality of life is not going to be turned around by putting our soldiers in more harms way. And no offense, but that bed of yours that is no longer "comfy" is still going to be a hell of a lot more comfortable than the foxhole.

I don't know where to begin with you Montanaman. If we're not hated for how we treat our prisoners, then how can you claim that our troops will be endangered by releasing the pictures? The only harm to troops would be public opinion at home; it's about informing us. The other side knows already. Abdul is not waiting in a cave wondering when the NYTimes is going to confirm his friend is getting tortured. The war is at their doorstep. They know more about it than you do, don't worry about that.

You can remain ignorant if you wish, but I want to know.

Also, what the hell do you mean One-Stop office? I ask again, do you know how people are living these days?

You're kidding right? You are laid off but have no idea what a local One-Stop office is? I hope that you don't have any family that you are putting at risk by being so helpless. Google it and you may have your eyes opened to the benefits that I pay for so you can get a paycheck.

How can you seriously not see how our troops would be in more danger? Abdul may not be waiting in a cave, but the rest of that part of the world wants nothing more than to have more reason to rally their people. Abdul sure was pissed when the cartoon came out mocking Mohammad. I guess he must get the NYTimes in that cave of his.

When we were in Somalia and our soldier's lifeless bodies were dragged through the streets did it not bother you? Were you not angry? When our nation was attacked where you complacent, or where you on the ignorant conspiracy bandwagon?

How do we know that the Iraqis did not do the harm first Mr.Mike G. Sh*t for brains.

Some of these people may have been hurt in battle, or during fighting, how do we differentiate? Why do you want to put the bulls on on our young Americans overseas?

Obama, our commander in chief, obviously believes more in ratings than those young people he is still sending over there.

Inhumane? Ever watched the video of the beheading of Daniel Pearl? Or, lost a loved one to terrorism? Whatever it takes to prevent these from happening again is OK by me.

I, as an American have done nothing inhumane to anyone! This is a fine line we must walk when including all of us in this disgraceful event but whatever happened at that prison was nothing compared to the tortures, mutilations and beheadings that is normal for those terrorists over there in the middle east.

Why would you as an American (I assume) want to be disgraced further?

It isn't inhumane to saw an American's head off on live television while he screams for his life???? Where the hell have you been? These people got knocked around in battle and pictures were taken at their capture, standard practice, just like stripping prisinors naked and bathing them, and since these people don't like baths, sometimes they have to be hosed down. Rules of Engagement.

Inhumane??? All of these terrorists (they are not detainees...they are terrorists) have shouted 'Death to America'...and all of them think the greatest day of their lives was 9-11. So, let's see, none have died, none have been beheaded, and most have put on about 20 pounds.

None of that can be said about Americans captured by them.

Everything advocates for torture cite, including the Pearl beheading, are easily accessible on the internet. In other words they have been made public. So why not put them side by side with whatever our boys have done and have an open debate about why in light of what the other side has done, anything we do to "them" is justified? Isn't this essencial to democracy?

Debbie What they did is not the point how we reacted is. Torture will only give the enemy an even grater platform and reason to continue killing our men and women. If it really work why did they have to use it 183 times on one person and if they opposing opinion is true then all of our men take prisoner in Japan, Germany and VietNam would have spilled their gust out when they were tortured, so Did They? Ask anyone who has been tortured if they except these types of interrogation including McCain and they will tell you NO! they don't work.

I agree!! The bleeding hearts only bleed for the enemy, not for the young boys who had their heads chopped off or had their hearts taken out of their chest while they were still beating. They want to see real abuse, take a look at that stuff. It obviously has some kind of a kinky turn on for some of these bozo's. Where is there outrage when our troops are being mutilated? You never heard that dumb azz pelosi saying one word. She is scum.

No kidding Debbie. All the ridiculous mantra about how inhumane it is to splash a little water in someones face is really getting old. This continual drivel from these liberal lightweights truly exposes us as a nation of Pelosi Pussies. Thanks for the new phrase that fits so well.

We are a Nation of Laws Whala and sooner then later it will catch up to who ever had blame in this horrible Chapter and trampling of our Constitution and the Geneva Convention. It will ride the Court System and most likely land on its merits by being release maybe not at this time, but in the near future. Heads will roll in both parties stay tune :)

Linda, heads have rolled. Our young boys that were sent over their, where is your outrage for them and their families. Where was the Geneva Convention than?? You did not hear a peep from the ACLU to realease those photo's. They are brutal as all hell and would do nothing but insight more hatred toward the middle east in this country.

It may be it was brutal for our men in Japan , Germany and Vietnam too yet we did not resort to torture then because we knew it did not work. If your position is right then we would have to conclude the when our Men were torture they also gave away military secrets right! Torture will not and has not ever worked they will tell you what you want to hear not what you need to know. Remember if it did work why did it take 183 times and will still don't know if we got the information we needed it has not be proved.

Debbie I agree. No one speaks out about the horrible torture our troops have had to endure over the years in all the wars as well as what they did to Pearl. I say let them continue waterboarding or WHATEVER it takes to get these monsters to talk. I personally don't care what happens to any of them. They preach death to Americans and we should care. I wonder how some of these pussies that are crying fowl will feel the next time we are hit with a terrorist attack. I am sick to death of hearing how bad they have it. Give me a break they have it better in prison then they did liveing wherever they came from.

Linda, stop trying to sniff the kool-aid...

Have you ever even read the Geneva convention treaties??

If you actually had read anything, you would know that these people cannot be legally classifed under the treaties as soldiers...

You seem to have a naive & misguided view of the realities of society and man. It would be ideal to say that the means does not justify the ends, but you personally having to choose whether to "inhumanly" treat an individual who's information can determine whether your son lives or dies, would change that idealism of yours very quickly.

I am not naive or misguided I am from a Military Family and we have sacrificed much in my family for your freedom, Sons have died in our family, You need to take a step back do your research talk to Men who have been tortured before you point fingers at any one. For your information They are classified as enemy combatant right so then they deserve a trial if what your saying is right and we can not hold them forever nor can we tortured them.Remember we are after all the Supper Power of the World and Torture is for Cowards and Terrorist as the Leader of the World we are to Lead not Follow.

Linda- I will ask you again, have you read the Geneva Convention treaties?

If you actually read them, you will undoubtedly understand that they are not protected under them.

Neither did you address my proposed scenario----Do you really think you would rather watch your son or loved one die or risk of death rather than "waterboard" someone?

You seem to be confusing "torture" i.e. pulling finger nails, cutting and breaking limbs,,etc...with degradation, having someone strip naked and tied in an uncomfortable position, is degrading and "uncomfortable" but it is not "torture"... Frankly, you seem to be too concerned with what the world thinks of us. I in turn, could give a damn after knowing friends and others who perished in 9/11---- Too idealistic...

I am still waiting for Hangtiti to be waterboard for charity after all you all claim is not torture so whats taking him so long?

aldridkg I work in Wall Street and I lost friends in Tower II and I pass that hole every time when was the last time you past by it? I can tell you that my friends were Peaceful people and they would want anything to do with torture in the name of their death. So too idealistic I am not realistic is more like it. Take off you hate glasses and you may be able to see why torturing is not the way to go.

Jack-789942, These particular terrorists base their deeds on their religious doctrine, namely Islam. Only Islam does these things and only Muslims are Islamic. Call like it is. The good Muslims say nothing of any weight to condemn the terrorist Muslims. McVeigh did not do his deeds based on Christianity. You are bigotted,...against opinions that differ from yours. And there is definite hate in your "tone". You are also a hypocrite. Typical Liberal telling people how they should think and speak.

Releasing the photos at this point in time will do more harm than good. The ACLU is anti-america and so is BHO.

Linda,

You "come from a military family" and you "lost people in the WTC and walk by it every day". Based on your comments I think you are full of sh*t!!! You make up stories to try to fend off rebuttals from people because you're argument can't stand on its merits. You are like those people who say "I've been a Conservative all my life but I voted for Barrack Obama". Bull Sh*t!!

Linda, I actually worked right next to ground zero, cross the street and there's the hole...

I stand corrected, idealistic & definitely not realistic..

See, the difference between you and I, is that I actually lived under a tyrannical regime- I know what it is not to have, what it is to go to bed hungry- what it is to live with out freedom..I have looked and experienced the real misery, poverty and persecution of people. Hence my realities are a bit more profound than yours...

You live the good life here and experienced some loss---plus all the crap you read on the NY SLIMEs and MSN-LSD, Washington Compost, etc...So your views of reality are extremely abstract, to say the least.

You and I differ in opinions, but as with most liberals, for so much of that "freedom of speech" you love---- it seems you are always the first ones to accuse people who disagree with you of hate, racism and any other deplorable aspect of human nature you can find. Nothing new here...

westbury---You and I are in agreement...

It's all these libs that go on boards and try to confuse people by putting out misleading info, meant to confuse others.

If these photos are that bad and we have tortured against all of our signed agreements and conventions, shame on the Bush administration for allowing it. Bush and Cheney tell us they have kept us safe since 9/11 but in reality they have done things to make us more hated and less safe. If we are attacked it is not because of Obama, it is because of the things that Bush and Cheney have given orders to do during their administration. Bush/Cheney will go down in history as the absolute worst administration this country has ever had.

Beth, keep your eyes on the current White House. They are already they worst. You cannot trust what anyone there says. You can take ANY three people working int eh WH and put them together and you still won't have half a brain.

When all is said and done and they're voted out in 2012, they will vindicate Bush.

Beth----now I've heard it all....Wow, see, you're suppose to drink the kool-aid, not sniff it instead..

Why don't we blame WWII, the holocaust, the inquisition, Kennedy & MLK assasinations on Bush while we're at it...Makes sense no?

Bush and Cheney don't tell you crap----- your ignorant a s s is still here, because the past administration did their job...Now,,,please, go get a life.

I agree 100%, our troops are already in harm's way, this would definitely stir the pot. And we already know that the US used extreme means to gather intel, why do we need photo proof? Maybe it's the voyeur in some of you!

I do have a brother over there, and NO! I do not want this scum in the white house to target him for murder.

Nothing to be gained by the release of these pictures. Just one more case of the ACLU being on the wrong side of the issue.

Bush, Cheney and co are the ones who put US service people more at risk, having ignored the law and morality in their panicked reactions. Not seeing further than their small minds could imagine, to the future and where they were leading us.

Don't worry about the backlash, Cheney says we're safer because of what they did. LOL

Well Bob----

Let's see,,,,,,, you're still here right?

Did we get bombed again? Did anything else blow up? Any other planes highjacked..??

That must be some good kool-aid you're drinking....

aldridkg - I can't believe we have to remind you, but 9/11 happened on THEIR watch to begin with! There were warnings for Clinton, but Bush and company completely dropped the ball and ignored all the warnings. So did they keep us safe before 9/11? NO! Keeping us safe afterwards was rather like closing the barn door after all the cows got out. Ask the families of all the 9/11 victims just how safe we were.

Warnings of Clinton??? What the heck are you sniffing dude? Is it glue, kool-aid or what?

What the heck are you talking about?? Was that in Bizarro world?

Can you point out to me factual and credible information pertaining to the "warnings of Clinton" you're referring to? It's so absurd,, that I'm actually curious....Plz,,I'd love to see that..

Revisionist at it again. The bush white house did not want to know about Bin Laden be for 9/11. They refused to listen to the CIA AL quieda expert's warnings, where as Clinton took the threat seriously and Clark briefed Clinton often. Rice thought Clark was a pest and banned him from the white house. That's fact. Now tell me that bush, Cheney, et al were not negligent in their arrogance. Their panicked reaction after 9/11, showed their lack of competence and understanding of international affairs.

Nice one........

The teleprompter is unsure today as to whether or not to release those photographs. The teleprompter should have more to say sometime in the near future...maybe take the show on the road for another televised "town meeting".

Ima, I agree. I really did kind of like this guy when he came into office, I am pretty much an independent, but he is now full scale scaring me with how he is handling the economic debacle, yes, that he did inherit, some of the insulting, arrogant comments he continues to make, and now this. If he continues down this road, if he allows an election in 4 years, (yes, I think he is becoming that scary) I would not vote for him, and I know I am not alone. Polls show his popularity is very high, and I assume it is still quite high, but polls lie, it depends on who and where they are done and the press has that down to a science.

joesick,
Sorry to report. "It shows he cares for our troops"? Yeah, by cutting the defense budget and bringing up this mess in the first place. This issue has now gone beyond endangering our troops. Every American, everywhere is now endangered. Our troops are armed and ready. Civilians are not. These are the things that happen when you're trying to be popular, before smart. "Good for him"? No, bad for us.

made, where do you come up with him cutting the defense budget, it is bigger now than it was last year, he increased it. Where do you get this stuff.

verno,
Look it up. The defense budget may be higher than last year's. But, Obama stated that he was going to trim the defense budget. These budget's are done the preceding year. So this year's budget was created by the Bush administration. So maybe Obama thought he'd look smart by being able to say he was going to reduce the budget. Or didn't want to look like a war monger like Bush. Although, he is now back peddling on that stance (surprised?), like he does on many other issues. Obama is learning that a budget for war is a slippery slope. Something he should have known. Now that he threatened, I will show the memos, I will show the photos, to, maybe not all the memos, maybe not all the photos, maybe show them later. It's too late he has fueled the flame of the terrorists, the Muslim extremists. And now this has endangered all Americans, not just the troops. Again, something Obama should have known. But I guess being popular matters most to him.

I am an independent and still don't want the photo's released. I think it will put more innocent people in harms way. Again, another DEMONcrat pulling a race card for the cause. (RepubliCLAN??) Please the race card is so outdated, old and tiresome, find some new material for our reading entertainment.

RUSHIE

Wow !!

What is the motivation of both scenarios?

Bush / Cheney right OR wrong were purely motivated to protect American lives.

Obama / Biden are purely motivated to garner political favor. I can't stand this administration and I do not for one minute believe that these photos will not ultimately be released. This action is kind of like voting present, he shifts the responsibility to the courts (where he thinks most policy should be decided). If the courts rule "NO" he can claim victory for blocking the release. If the court rules "YES" well he can say I gave it the OLD COLLEGE TRY, but what can I do.

Further, this issue will dominate the news cycle at least thru the week. This will provide cover from enemy fire as it pertains to other covert operations this administration is engaged in against the American Public.

Michael-

Great post! You nailed it!

Never thought I'd agree with Rush. Best post I've seen so far.

Under the Geneva Conventions, soldiers who fight out of uniform or commit atrocities – i.e., murder prisoners or target and kill noncombatants – may be sent before firing squads.

This is how we close The Guantánamo Bay Detention Camp, we shoot all the ragheads today.

This way we can eleminate all possibilities for possible torture claims against the USA.

Also, we can strengthen the postion of soldiers in the battlefield, shoot all on-site. This will remove from the terrorist playbook the lack of fear of being captured. As it is now, they can be assured of (3) square meals, soccer time, sleep with nice pillows and blankets, ample prayer time and a promise we will NOT YELL at them.

If they now we take no prisoners, as they are found they are lined up AND SHOT according to the rules of the Geneva Convention.

I LIKE IT !!

Lamebaugh--Lame---Yes that's exactly what you are...

You seem to be forgetting one little fact on your so called Republican excuse...

The Republicans where not the ones who started this spetacle...It was you side---remember???

You really need to get out of this country and go live in some banana republic if you actually think that most Americans would want to prosecute a president...

Plz, stop trying to sniff the kool-aid...I already told you,,,it's to drink, not inhale...

Sorry, some of us have to work, but I'm back to answer all....

Aldrigkg - Please be more clear when you say that WE started this spectacle, the last time I checked, the republicans were in charge for the better part of the 8 years of hell. By the way, we all know that you and your people would rather have us all be intoxicated and drunk on BUSH beer, but if I am forced to have BUSH beer, I'd rather drink the Kool-Aid.

Michael - Do you guys ever try anything else other than conspiracy theories? Maybe he wanted to release the images because that is being "transparent", and perhaps, maybe someone slapped him upside the head and said, "Don't do that, your going to be responsible for a lot of dead soldiers..." But no, it has to be because he is somehow playing the game behind closed doors. You people are so entrenched in a partisan war that your hatred is consuming you like a cheating wife.

Honestly, I don't have a problem throwing a few terrorist on the George Foreman, if it protects your family and my family, I really don't have an issue with frying a dirtbag. On the other hand, lets not document it for the world to see... have better control of your peeps and make sure it doesn't come back to cause issues.

Another screwup by GW and the boys. Again, Obama has to come in and clean up after the prior administration.

You guys are wearing out the HATE OBAMA playbook. Let's get real ok, don't be like everyone else and make up crap. Besides, that's Cheney's job.

Ok RushLame---

Apparently, you are incapable of understanding context.

So, let's take the baby steps...You are presented some ridiculous comments about the Republican party in your previous post.

I replied that the Republicans did not start this spetacle---Meaning the topic of this board---You know,,the release of photos, possible prosecution of previous administration officials, release of memos---understand now??

Your response is the usual Liberal talking points..The last 8 yrs. blah, blah, blah..

Hence, what does the last 8 yrs. have to do with the CURENT administration's CHOICE to release all this information NOW (as in PRESENT- not PAST)?? How is this act related to Bush? It is Obama who made this choice and who is creating divisiveness here- it is him and his administration that has started this particular problem--not the Republicans or the last 8 yrs. ----So your point or argument is completely irrelevant. The Republicans did not start accusing anyone of torture and demanding release of any information.

Again, like the rest of the few liberals here, you who so ardently defend freedom of speech, have taken a nasty habit of accusing anyone that disagrees with your views of being a racist, haters, homophobes,,,etc....

Gees, what a surprise...

I got news for you buddy,,,,look at all the post here..

The overwhelming majority of Americans, including the ones here, don't see anything to be gained with this action- It does not help anyone, all it does is divide the public and turn this into a political witch hunt... Both negatives----

So this is a waste of time and most of us feel that D.C. should be using their time and OUR MONEY more constructively....

aldridkg - Thanks for your indepth assessment of my intellectual capabilities. I figured you would go there because all REPUBLICLANS think that their intellect is superior to everyone elses so therefore every attack from a republican usually starts like this.

Ok, so this spectacle is this very moment about first releasing the photos and now, not releasing them. WOW, this is really something horrible. Yes, you are right... what a big SPECTACLE. The president has decided to change his mind for whatever reason he decided. Yes, horrible. You are right, this is bad.

Again, like the rest of the republiCLAN's, you are drunk on Obama drama.

Just in case you missed it... THIS IS WHAT YOUR PEEPS WANTED! Remember?

You didn't want him to release these photos in the first place!!! But look at all of you, crying and whimpering like a bunch of sheep that you are... following each other in your circle of Obama hatred...

It's further proof, you people will find something wrong, WITH EVERYTHING!

Again, like the rest of the few liberals here, you who so ardently defend freedom of speech, have taken a nasty habit of accusing anyone that disagrees with your views of being a racist, haters, homophobes,,,etc....

Interesting how you put us on the OFFENSIVE when the fact is since the day Obama took office, we've been on the DEFENSIVE from the attacks coming from all different directions, even the former administration is still at it.

It's so simple for your people to focus on the moment because, Obama is the moment. You act like we were all living in Utopia before Obama was elected... disgusting!

Gee what a suprise!

egbay1: Your are a die hard republiCLAN. Your post even proves it with your DEMONcrat remark in defense of your republiCLAN buddies.

Listen, if you are going to try and twist peoples words and spew negativity like your REPUBLICLAN friends do everyday, get your facts straight.

By definition, a CLAN is a group united by a common interest. - Merriam-Webster Online

So PLEASE, stop twisting peoples words and trying to sound like your self important republican friends. I'm not interested in your drivel and your word twisting in a feeble attempt to make ME look like a RACIST when YOU are apparently a RACIST since it is in the forefront of that empty shell you call a head.

DON'T EVER try and twist MY words and make ME look like the loser that YOU ARE!

Pathetic....

RUSHIE=

Doubt if you'll see this but here goes. CONSPIRACY ??????

I was comparing motivation - what is the gain - everything political has an end game attached to the decision.

Too often, POLS fail to consider all possibilities before acting. Much like the Senate hearings on H.I.T.... If the party in power determines that waterboarding, and other H.I.T. tactics are indeed torture and that Bush/Cheney violated the Geneva Convention and the sensibilities of the left.

Then the US Government as signatures to international law, will be obligated to indict and prosecute all participants in the alleged torture, from those that administered it to those that authorized it.

Potential fallout from this numbs the mind. The CIA and all intelligence gathering officials will be effectively hamstrung and fearful of doing their job out of fear of CRIMINAL PROSECUTION??

The divided country the chasm that exists today will only become larger, in fact, probably so large that we would never be able to cross it again and we the USA could join Rome as a fallen empire.

Fortunately for now the pictures are not being released, at least not until the courts order them to be released, then that chasm will start to grow a little deeper and a little wider.

anmaro...exactly! Another diversion from the real issues and Obama's total incompetence of the same.

The Muslim countries don't seem to need a reason to become outraged, they are already outraged by their lives as they are. Our "up" is their down and our "down" is their up and there is nothing we can do about it. The ACLU wants the photos released and sued to have them shown, not Obama.

I agree with you Al, The Civil Liberties Union should be more concerned with our own liberties than the enemies who are chopping off heads like the barbarians they are...I think those prisoners deserved what they got, humiliated and disgraced.

How so?? Are you trying to say no Democrats knew about the abuse. C'mon you have to be smarter than that. This is just political posturing. The blame will rest on everyone who knew about the abuse and did nothing about it, I suspect there'd be an equal number of shoulders on both sides for this to rest on.

Believe it or not, there are things much more important than whose to blame. We are talking about American lives - not democrat lives or republican lives - but American lives.

As an aside, I bet it was much easier to win wars without every move that is made being known by the news agencies and reported with the click of a mouse.

I know American lives hang in the balance. Why do you think I said the photos should not be released now. I just get sick of the Right wing Limbaughites point the finger on this one.

My issue was with your placing blame in the first place. To me, it took away from your argument. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

Who said "all is fair in Love and War'? War is not a pretty thing and I have seen worse tortures in movies made in the USA. Taking those photos were the dumbest things the soldiers did if you ask me, why would anyone gather evidence against themselves?

I notice there is a serious reading comprehension problem on this board. Obama BLOCKED the release of the photos. He doesn't want them released. For those psychics on this board that are convinced he will released the photos at a time of his choosing, how about we all just wait and see? This particular decision is a win/win for everyone who ISNT a card carrying member of the ACLU... regardless of your political affiliation.

Do you have a list of the 400 individuals that faced action? Do you actually know their ranks?

Hey snake-

Were you there? You seem to know an awful lot about this. You know who was responsible? Why not name names (other than Cheney...which is ridiculous)?

Since November 6th, 2008.

Why, no, Willie, I feel just fine.