never did like Notre Dame anyway

Those horrorable people.....Kneeling and praying.........We can never protest against the messiah.

I doubt if Notre Dame really cares!!!

I'm sure Notre Dame will suffer from loss of enrollments because of Obama getting a degree. Doesn't say much for their standards and they are a private Catholic supported school. not a government supported college.

As for the protestors, if they were not causing a dangerous situation I see no reason to arrest them. It should be taxpayers right to protest quietly without threat of arrest just because someone can't take the heat.

Obama just can't take not being viewed as the Almighty and always right

Now I know why your name is last, last to get it. Not students and on private property, sorry that is trespassing and against the law.

Last, I assume their students get govt. loans and pell grants. So they do indirectly get govt. moneys.

As for the protestors, if they were not causing a dangerous situation I see no reason to arrest them. It should be taxpayers right to protest quietly without threat of arrest just because someone can't take the heat.

I guess Dave in Ma. already said this but status as a tax-payer has no relevance on private party. They sure wouldn't gotten away with protesting in MY yeard!

Hardly equals the billions of dollars the catholic church rakes in on thousands and thousand of acres of US soil - - - - - tax free.

Jerry Coleman- nom de plume is the name of a Yankee and Marine Officer- those same folks obviously weighed that stuff and found it morally OK or at least morally neutral.

Dave in Ma.

"Not students and on private property, sorry that is trespassing and against the law."

I wonder if you felt the same way when it was Martin Luther King or Mohandas Gandhi.

Break the law and go to jail, for everyone. Same laws for all. Did MLK or MG have a permit? Were they on private property?

What a wonderful question, Roy!

If a fetus is a whole viable person then white right does it have to the use of another whole viable persons body without consent?

Dave, why so harsh? Martin Luther King stood up as did Mohandas Ghandi and the world is not the same because of them. I say these are great men who stood up for what they believed in and sometimes we have to do the same.

Fine! But both MLK and Ghandi went to jail. Just have your bail ready!

Tappy, not harsh just telling like it is. Is there anyone above the law? I don't think anyone is/should be, IMO. The protesters should have filed the paperwork to have the protest and this would be a non story.

I am glad they did, just to let you know.

If a fetus is a whole viable person then white right does it have to the use of another whole viable persons body without consent?

Because the woman chose to have a baby! Duh....

A shining example of free speech and diversity of ideas being accepted on the campus of another of those bastions of open mindedness. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STR8TALK, You are going to make him what he is not, or do you just like to spread lies and rumors from fox republican news. try for your sake and speak what you know.

Sorry, but a fetus prior to it being viable outside the womb IS NOT a "baby", it's not alive.

Okay, I'll bite. If it's not alive, is it dead?

I really don't want to offend anyone, but when you look at it scientifically, it's almost parasitic in the manner in which it thrives.

The fetus compared to a parasite, as if it is a tape worm that a woman needs to be rid of. Yes, I guess I dislike hearing the unborn being described as parasites. I have always believed that abortion is a woman's choice. My choice on the matter, for myself, has been "no." However, I am quickly losing sympathy for the pro-choice defenders. One reason is their use of terminology, such as unviable fetus and parasite. Indeed, the medical term, unviable fetus, is correct; however, when used in an argument for abortion, it makes it sound as if the fetus, if not aborted, would not be viable. Or to say, correctly, it is not a baby, because it is a fetus, another medical term, does not change the fact that if the fetus is allowed to grow to term, it would indeed be a baby. Is it a human life? Or just a piece of tissue? Some people say, "I'm carrying a child" when they are pregnant, not "I'm carrying a fetus," or "I'm infested with a parasite." The pro-choice use of medical terminology to advance their argument seems like a word game to me.

Another thing that has had an impact on my views over the years is that I've met several women who had abortions. Each one has said to me that she regretted her decision to abort her baby (unviable fetus or parasite, to some, but not to these women). Even "Roe" has changed her mind on the issue of abortion. I have begun to ask myself: Is it medically necessary? Was it rape or incest? Is it a form of family planning? Is it the correction in June of that roll-in-the hay in April?

I still believe whether or not to have an abortion should be a woman's choice. I also believe that the federal government should have no say one way or the other on this issue. Because tax money goes to fund abortions deemed necessary due to health issues, rape or incest, and tax money is also given to abortion clinics as part of their funding, everyone becomes involved in this discussion, which no longer makes it the woman's choice alone.

It is, in fact, the custom for ND to invite the President to speak at commencement during his first year in office. This ain't new. It's just a convenioent time for people to be noisy with cameras present.

str8talk

If you are a parent, may god protect your children, if you made it to become a grandparent, may god protect your grandchildren and most importantly, for the hatred you show Gods Lambs before they have a chance to join human kind on this earth, to love and cherish family, God and country, may God have mercy on your soul. You will give rights to those who would try to destroy American Citizens but you condem a defenceless child. God forgive you and your kind, you will lose out in the end.

How these "terms" came to be:

http://www.pregnantpause.org/abort/remember-naral.htm

http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html

They had to make the baby "unhuman" and not a person first to advance their cause, even the one first behind the drive to do it, now admits he was wrong, and has since come forward admitting his mistake. Unfortunately he created a monster.

str8talk-

I hate to tell you, buddy, the science isn't on your side on this one. Just because you know the words "viable" and parasite doesn't lend any weight to your argument, if you can call it that. I'm not even sure why I am responding to your post, since you can't seem to grasp the whole premise of the argument. Only a fool would argue it isn't a life. The argument has been whether the government has the right to tell a pregnant woman she has to carry and deliver it once it is conceived. We have become a sexually irresponsible culture. We have told women that they have the same sexual freedom as men, and in a purely societal sense, they do. However, the physiological differences between a man and woman dictate otherwise. It sucks, but they are at greater risk for STDs and so far, they are the only ones who can get pregnant. We have tried to negate these differences through contraception and other "protections", but at he end of the day, women are still going to have a lot more to think about when it comes to sex. It may not be fair, but it is the reality of the situation. That is why I say the argument centers around what the government has the right to tell women to do. But I would submit to you there isn't a doctor or scientist out there who would try to argue that a fetus isn't a life simply because it can't talk or survive outside it's mother's womb.

If they were protesting on public property, peacefully, then they would not have been arrested. Since they were on private property-- the college's property-- they were arrested.

No matter which side of the fence you stand, (pro-choice or pro-life), I always understood that, as an American citizen, you had the right to peaceful protest.

All the reactionary pro-lifers should get together and pray their problems away. It worked for Swaggart and Bakker.

A fetus is a life when it's breathing on its own. Any other belief is childish nostalgia. Like believing in transubstantiation and the divine punishment of sin.

The NEED for religion on a cultural scale is 100 years dead. When will it actually go away?

Science beckons, and knocks loudly.

And who cares if Einstein believed in God. Richard Feynman didn't believe in God.

Why can't we BELIEVE and HAVE FAITH in our capacity to reason and our growing understanding of the universe?

Why do we have to undercut our potential by attributing all of big thoughts and challenges to a fairy tale?

Whether science agrees with str8talk or not, the Bible does.

Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)

⁷And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

(but the body was just a body, a sculpture, at this point)

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

(and THEN something magic happened - not UNTIL then!)

and man became a living soul.

See also:

Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Life, in the only spiritually relevent context, begins at birth. But this is the subject for another seed.

"As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side." Gandhi.

How can we be pro-life yet send our children to war? Lest we be hypocritical, if we sanction war shouldn't we sanction abortion as well? When is life worth most, inside the womb or on the battle field? Hasn't the womb become a battlefield also?

Truth is not binary in nature. It IS and can not be argued against, it can not be attacked and does not need any defense. Death, as Life, are Temporal and therefore binary. Any laws dealing with either is temporal and ultimately unsustainable. There will be a time when a pro-life agenda will also run into its ultimate demise. An over crowded and globally warmed Earth will automatically render it moot. When that time comes, how will we determine who will go and who will stay?

The point is that we are legislating ourselves to death. Soon we will need a license to fart. If any government or religion wants to legislate, then do so from the seat of Truth and not from a prostrate position that only serves to divide the Nation. Creating binary laws will only continue the debate and the divide.

str8talk science is a belief system. Few things reach the level of a law. And even the Laws of science are only applicable in certain controlled environments.
Life can be created in a petri dish and placed into a host. Are you saying those same components could never exist or somehow survive externally on its own. Seems to me if it knows to latch and feed on a host it must have some form of intelligence that leads it to follow this course. Arguably this could be called brain activity or cognitive process could it not? Scientifically speaking I mean?

mek67
Let's end all this nonsense right now. If you are for imposing YOUR religious beliefs then you are in the wrong country. I know this is a mindblower for you, but this country was founded on not being ruled by religious zealotry mixed with government.

The Constitution expressly forbids any religion from imposing laws advocated or enacted by government.

The Founding Fathers essentially despised Christianity and religion was expressly put between a wall called Separation of Church and State....that is one the KEY aspects of the founding of this country.... WE DID THIS ON PURPOSE AS A MESSAGE THAT GOVERNMENTS CAN, WILL AND SHOULD OPERATE FREE FROM RELIGION DOGMA.

And don't even try to say our laws are God's laws. Our laws are based in English Common Law which was introduced from what Saxons had establised. English Common Law was in place in great part well before there were ANY Christians in England. They didn't arrive til the 7th Century. Amazing what you learn when you consider where mommy, daddy and the priest got their information from. Don't believe me, see for yourself and if this still doesn't convince you to practice your beliefs and respect the beliefs of others, then I must ask you, "Why do you hate America?" Do you hate freedom? Why?
The Constitution of the United States of America:

The First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Article VI, Section 3
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

President of the United States John Adams, a founding father:

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
John Adams: "The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
Thomas Jefferson, you may have heard of him:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

Jefferson: "...that our civil rights have no dependence on religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics and geometry."

James Madison, fourth president of the U.S.:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

Benjamin Franklin: I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.

Thomas Jefferson: History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

Abraham Lincoln (obviously not a founding father):

"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession."

The Church's ( all of them ) should stay out of politics. They can make all the religious laws that they want for their Church's, but we have a secular congress and Judiciary and a Constitution that states separation of state and church. let them protest also , that is a right but off the private property, because other wise it's trespassing.

What a bunch of extremist views. Of this I can assure you that the Notre Dame campus will be TOTALLY secured during the President's visit, as will the airspace overhead. I watched this happen when I was an undergrad. (No, I'm not saying where or when, don't like revealing my age.) The protesting will make no difference, one way of another. The folks who are upset about this need to deal only with those in power at Notre Dame, they are the ones who made the decision. I hope that the student's day is not made less by this. Graduation is a milestone and shouldn't be marred by thoughtless outsiders. The students are being honored here FIRST and FOREMOST.

I once got into a discussion with a catholic about this situation. I asked how they could on the main floor argue the sanctity of life while in the basement they were sodomizing young people. They trivialized it and acted like it never happened. They are delusional as well as hypocritical.

If everything you baby killers say is true please explain to me that if an un-born baby is just a part of the mothers body why does it have a different DNA. I would think one hand would have the same DNA as the other or one foot the same as the other.

Guess I'm just dense but I am smart enough to understand that all you people that call for abortion are people who were not aborted. I wonder how many wonderful and beautiful young people have been killed before they had the opportunity to live. I wonder how proud some of you would be of your child that you allowed to be flushed after being torn apart like a dead chicken. I wonder how many men would now be sitting at a ball field watching his son snag a grounder or hit a home run but for a shape knife in the hand of a man/woman who aborts for the money.

I hope you all realize someday that this whole abortion issue is money. Now our tax dollars is being sent to other countries to abort babies thanks to the obamanation.

Speaking of the obamanation. This is the man who voted three times to kill babies who had the nerve to be born alive after an abortion effort. Just put'em on a shelf til they die. No medical help for these stuggling pitiful little babies per your hero and messiah.

Guess I'm just dense but I am smart enough to understand that all you people that call for abortion are people who were not aborted

I wish my mom would have abortion as an option. Her life would have been better. I'm not selfish enough to put my life before hers. Instead, her fundamentalist parents followed their "good" book and forced her to marry the rapist when she was 14. That was a lot of fun as a kid - NOT!

You are forgetting all those children that were born later after the female had an abortion earlier in life that she would not have had otherwise.

HEY It's Sunday!!! Shouldn't you be in church and not on the net ? Shame on you, Wait I get it, you run the online church preach mission for your church for the sake of all us lost souls,

Abortion clouds OWEbama event???? WTF Kind of spin is that?

"OWEbama tramples on Catholic values for his own selfish reason" is more like it.

OWEbama: Go Away, go run for European office, go run the UN!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to Church and confess your sins. it's Sunday morning

The only thing more deplorable then a self serving religious fanatic, is a self righteous religious fanatics that tries to force their hypocritical beliefs on others. I say again go to Church and confess your sins it's Sunday. try living your life in a christaian manner before you satrt preaching to others as to how to live our lives.

Every teen pregnancy is a miracle and every sperm is sacred.

Hard to believe that not everyone hails adn worships the One. Obama's appearance will distract those who have worked hard to earn their degrees.

A storm blew up immediately after Notre Dame invited Obama to address Sunday's commencement exercises. It still rages, with anti-abortion activists promising to disrupt the president's appearance, where he was to receive an honorary degree.

The Constitution expressly forbids any religion from imposing laws advocated or enacted by government.

I wondered how long it would take for an individual to bring the Constitution into this debate.

The Founding Fathers essentially despised Christianity and religion was expressly put between a wall called Separation of Church and State....that is one the KEY aspects of the founding of this country.... WE DID THIS ON PURPOSE AS A MESSAGE THAT GOVERNMENTS CAN, WILL AND SHOULD OPERATE FREE FROM RELIGION DOGMA.

Those founding father's "despised Christianity & religion" so much that the main founder who had the most influence on this portion of our constitution, held Church services in the Capital Building for his entire term as President. Yes, Thomas Jefferson, his recommendation that there exist "a wall of separation between church and state"..

And don't even try to say our laws are God's laws. Our laws are based in English Common Law which was introduced from what Saxons had establised. English Common Law was in place in great part well before there were ANY Christians in England. They didn't arrive til the 7th Century.

During the colonial times, there was no real law established except that of English common law. English common law stood on one ground "stare decisis," which meant stand by decisions. Common law was not the only system of law that ruled over the colonies. Moral law was a major influence on the colonist and in common law itself. Common law was based on moral law which was derived from the Bible, yet not taken directly from it.

Amazing what you learn

Yes, it is amazing what some individuals learn...

The First Amendment

It is one thing to quote the Constitution of the United States, it's another thing to be able to comprehend it. The Constitution is intepreted like the Bible is often interpretates. Individuals read into it what they want to.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

In plain english, Congress will not set up one religion of practice such as England had. Doesn't mean, that they will not participate, condemn or prevent the practices of religion. Clearly, if that was the case, then they wouldn't have:

1. Held church services in the Capital Building.

2. Congressional Fast Day Proclamation May 17, 1776, declared as a "day of Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer" throughout the colonies. Congress urges its fellow citizens to "confess and bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and by a sincere repentance and amendment of life, appease his [God's] righteous displeasure, and through the merits and mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain his pardon and forgiveness."

3. The government sponsored the publication of the Bible and required Christian moral conduct within the armed forces.

4. National days of "thanksgiving", "humiliation fasting and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice per year.

5. Congress appointed chaplains for the armed forces and itself, which continue to lead prayer each day during proceedings of the House of Representatives.

and the list goes on......

Adams Jefferson: James Madison Benjamin Franklin:

The facts are for every quote you seek out from these men against religion that might show your case that they were totally against religion, you can find as many or if not more for religion. The majority of correspondences between Jefferson & Adams on file at archives & their individual museums are discussing religion. Taking a quote here in there out of context isn't a proven point at all.

The fact is, both were probably two of the greatest Theologist in our history. They debated, religion consistantly. Most who believe deeply in their God, do debate religion. Newsflash, that isn't a sin under any Christian religion I know of.

It is not a bad thing, nor does picking out a quote here and there state they were not religious. They both were smart enough to know for every religious person in the world out there that abuse those that didn't believe as they did, there were just as many non-religious individuals who would abuse those who didn't believe as they did. They went to great lengths to insure that individuals were not persecuted for their beliefs. But in the end, they knew that certain individuals would interpret their words to fit their own mean.s

Again, if they were so not religious, then ask yourself, why they were the first two Presidents to hold religious services and by the way attend those services, in the State Capital building? Doesn't quite make sense, if we are to believe your posted quotes, that they were totally against religion and wanted "members of government to not to participate"

I suggest that you go and actually really study the writings and practices of the individuals you have chose to cut and past quotes out of context of their entire writing ie Letters. Maybe you might learn something other than what they taught you in the public school system, which frankly isn't much.

If a person deliberately attacks a pregnant woman with the intention of harming the unborn baby and the unborn baby dies should the attacker be charged with murder or manslaughter? If you say yes then you are admitting that an unborn baby is alive. If you do not consider the unborn baby to be alive then the attacker should simply be charged with assault with no consideration to what happened to the unborn baby, which is an inanimate object.

A discussion among diverse positions is a privilege given to an educational institution; Nortre Dame's award of an honorary degree is an abuse of that privilege. Notre Dame is taking a position against life; a Catholic cannot take that stand even under the guise of a discussion. Abortion is an intrinsic evil.

str8talk:

You wrote "Sorry, but a fetus prior to it being viable outside the womb IS NOT a "baby", it's not alive..."

But if it's NOT alive, why do you have to KILL it? That's what abortionists are paid to do!

You lack the basics of common sense. Also, your moniker of str8talk is a joke. An appropriate name for you would be "forked tongue."

The Honorary Degree should never have been offered to a promoter of child killing. Norte Dame has gone off the deep end. Very Sick indeed.

Comments like this are why the fundamentalist Right are not taken seriously anymore.

You wrote "Sorry, but a fetus prior to it being viable outside the womb IS NOT a "baby", it's not alive..."

But if it's NOT alive, why do you have to KILL it? That's what abortionists are paid to do!

You lack the basics of common sense. Also, your moniker of str8talk is a joke. An appropriate name for you would be "forked tongue."

Rhonda, the reason you can't say it is alive or it isn't alive is because "life" is a matter of interpretation. From a biochemical perspective, a fetus is alive, but so is the egg, which is killed once a month upon a woman's period. So is a sperm cell, which are killed by the millions everytime a man ejaculates. A fertilized egg is alive. A tumor is alive.

All kinds of human things, from that perspective, are alive that we feel no remorse in killing.

If you say life is the entrance of the soul, I think you'd find all kinds of debate as to when that happens. None of those positions would be provable since the soul is, by definition, unprovable.

Maybe you say life begins at birth, which places a pretty arbitrary line for when a human attains rights as a citizen. What's the difference between cervical dilation of 2 cm and 10 cm followed by birth. Is one really alive and the other really dead?

Some say life begins when a fetus attains the ability to live outside the womb. That, also, is a blurry line. Afterall, is that survival in a NICU center with advanced medical apparatus to assist everything from skin generation to breathing? Is that survival in the place where we spent 99% of human history, the pleistocene savannah?

I don't think any thinking person can say "life begins at x." I think what we can say is full rights as a citizen can be arbitrarily defined as starting at x. From that point on, intentional ending of life is a crime, but it's important to emphasize this is an arbitrary starting point that is minimally better than any other starting point. Quit with the absolutism! In an allegedly educated and enlightened society, we have to come at this dilemma from a rational position.

I've heard of almost no one who is against ND inviting the president to speak. The problem is with the actions of the person who is president. Trying to 'whitewash' those actions against the unborn and those that survived abortion by saying abortion is not killing a baby is like saying a tornado is not a storm. There are consequences for actions, but BO has lived his life in a cacoon of not having to face those consequences because of his color, relition or associates. The time of his learning is growing closer and closer. I'd personally like to see his teleprompter give out just as he starts his talk, which would make any 'degree' given him look like what it is, a sham!

str8talk "Sorry, but a fetus prior to it being viable outside the womb IS NOT a "baby", it's not alive."

By that definition, a virus or bacterium or cancer is not alive because it's not outside the body.

Perhaps your brain is not alive by the same definition. LOL

Both Obama and ND showed VERY poor judgement. It is amazing that protests have been going on for a week and its only now MSN is choosing to report it.

If a fetus is a viable whole person then what right does it have to use the body of another whole viable person without consent???

Wow, Roy. I think this is the first time we've agreed! When do you define the start of life?

One million arabs killed and not a word from the "pro-life" hypocrites. Legalize marijuana, outlaw religion, and watch the world blossom.

Since the church now is getting more involved in politics they should start payng taxes on all property owned by them....Lets not allow this church or any church that involves itself in any type of politics to get by any more with this free tax thing...they now own too much to continue a free ride for them.

Xerxes,perhaps you don't understand the issue or the phrase"without consent"....Can you read well?

Willow-124447
Hard to believe that not everyone hails adn worships the One. Obama's appearance will distract those who have worked hard to earn their degrees. ---------------------

Actually, 70 - 85% of the graduating students WANT Obama to attend the event, the vast majority (I've seen two polls, one with 72%, the other with 85%).

If anyone if "distracting" those who earned their degrees, it's not Obama, it's the people who are choosing to use this event and make it political theatre. Notre Dame has a long tradition of inviting the President to give this address and they were wise not to change it (question, was their this kind of response when Clinton gave the speech, I can't recall).

Given this tradition, it is the protestors and not the President who are doing everything in their power to turn a graduation ceremony and cause for celebration into a political event. They are the ones who are cheapening it, not Obama.

Where the self-proclaimed "pro-lifers" are confused is that they think this debate is about living and dying. It isn't. It never was. As I said in 1.58, we kill living human cells and tissue everyday from a biological perspective.

The debate is concerning whether or not a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy, and at what stage. There are those who say her use of birth control is immoral and an affront to God (e.g. the Catholic church.) According to the Catholic church, a woman doesn't even have that right. There are those who say a woman has a right to do whatever she wants with her body, that her body is her sacred domain and cannot be violated by any governmental law. That is where the debate is.

When does a woman sacrifice rights over her own body in the interest of the state?

The latest standing of the Supreme Court is that she does not have the right to have dilation and extraction of a fetus from her body unless she would otherwise die from the pregnancy. All other rights to her body remain hers.

19 people showed up? Small numbers considering there are over a billion catholics world wide and no republican catholic has EVER had an abortion.....(insert sarcastic grin)

Holy Hypochricy! Bush put more people to death in 2 terms as TX. Gov.- Then killed a whole lot more by launching a war of aggression against a nation of 25 million (pre war pop.). and Obama feels that women are in control of their own bodies.

What is the catholic church doing to adress the undernourishment and homelessness and abuse of the children that are in the U.S. now?

Why isnt the Catholic Church screaming to get every existing child the health care they deserve?

Why isnt the Catholic Church using all that land and wealth it has to house unwanted children and make sure they eat??

It is a very simple situation to clear up. Does Notre Dame accept federal money or are they completely privately funded? If they except federal funding then everyone of the people objecting are hypocrites. If on the other hand they do not accept federal money because they object to the federal laws that legalize abortion then they have every right to object.

What you can't do however is accept the money from pro-choice people and spend it to object to their cause. That would mean that the money exceeds your beliefs.

That would also mean that every student at the University is Catholic and is pro-life. That includes the basketball and football team. Do these people object to the sports team members who are not Catholic and who do not share their views?

Yes, Ivan, YES!

If the Church and their crazed devotees want to control the lives of people who have no vested interest in the criminal Church, then they should:

Pay taxes.

Pay taxes.

Grant billions of dollars to the National Endowment for the Arts, National Science Foundation, and the U.S. Board of Education. They should help to educate EVERYONE, if they're truly interested in forwarding their agenda. Sending out their STUPID, IDOLATOR followers to raise a stink for free is such bad form.

PUNISH HARSHLY any and all sexual criminality within the clergy -- what's the use of saving lives from the evils of abortion if you're just going to throw the poor kids to the wolves as soon as they're out of the womb?

Lastly, if the Church wants people to take their social agenda seriously, the Church should at least apologize for its anti-Semitism and bigotry perpetrated over the last 1500 years. Start fresh, at least in theory, and rational, atheistic people will take the Church seriously. The Church is a glass house, and they throw more stones than anybody.

TAKE THEIR MONEY AWAY, and they have no leverage.

TAX TAX TAX.

If you want hypocrasy, try this one on for size. The party of small gov't...of "get the gov't off my back" would love to impose federal prohibition on a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.

If the Demos were anti-choice, how long would it take for the charges of SOCIALISM to fly out of the Right?

Hypocrisy is one of the degrees you can earn at Notre Dame...

First teabaggers have a dismal showing, now this.....I kinda feel sorry for republicans. By the looks of their posts, they don't even realize their party is dying....

It’s all great, right to life demonstrations at Notre Dame with Catholics and the Christian right leading the fracas. I was baptized and raised in Catholic Schools, now how about a self imposed twenty percent addition tax taken on by the demonstrators to raise the unwanted children of those couplings. I would find that to be a much more compelling demonstration of support for right to life.

That still doesn’t address pregnancies resulting out of rape or which expose the mother to undue physical danger but it’s a start and exhibits a much more genuine stance on the part of the demonstrators .

More people show up to a Notre Dame soccer game than showed up to the Obama protest......OUCH!

President of the United States John Adams, a founding father:

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

John Adams: "The Doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."

Thomas Jefferson, you may have heard of him:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half of the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

They were so so right and you morons still believe all that bull @!$%# !

Maybe it’s about time the Catholic Church give up their 501c3 status if were so interested in effecting political policy in this country. The funds raised from taxing church properties should just about do the job.

and the firstof the tree ring circus. dictator obama.. nasty pelosi,,, and timmy boy gethner. all three are liars..

Hang in there nibroc37! Some day your party will be back.....(chuckle)

You, anti nut cases need to get a passeport and go preach the romanian people with your anti abortion laws.. Let 's see how they welcome you !!

Romania : 20 000 women died in back alley botched abortions. Millions of lives ruined by forced pregnancies. Hundred of thousand babies ended up in orphanages and will never be normal human being because of the lack of nurturing and love they never received.

The people got fed up with the tyrany of the pro life, they dragged their leaders down the streets and shot them by firing squad.... Oh yeah right laws against legal abortions truely work, does nt it !!

You imbeciles cannot force a woman to carry a pregnancy if she does not want to !

Humerous how a well noted Catholic school gives a honorary degree to a black, Democratic President. It has to be eating at the Republican party something fierce.

More people showed up to the Subway open house in my neighborhood than showed up for the Obama protest at Notre Dame.....(but, they were giving away a free bag of chips with every sandwich ordered, so that isn't a fair comparison)

I wonder if there are any law or other professors at Notre Dame that support the pro-choice laws?

Look at the people in the pictures and on TV, do you think they are students? If they are not students they should be removed from the campus to protect the kids. Keep in mind these are the same type of people who bomb Clinics.

Humerous how a well noted Catholic school gives a honorary degree to a black, Democratic President. It has to be eating at the Republican party something fierce.

It doesn't bother the Republican party one bit. It is the right wing extremists who are furious over this, not the Republican party. That is the fundamental problem the Repub party is facing right now. How much do they have to pander to the extremists to keep their vote while still maintaining credibility with independents?

You know you can't believe those polls, especially from the liberal media robin hood!

schwannomin

I could not agree with you more. The problem is they, like these 19, are the loudest part of the Republican party. Until these extremist come to terms with their humanity and not protray Republicans as above the fray the Republican party is lost. You can not protest abortions then parade around Bristole Palin. You can not bash gays and have Larry Craigs. You can not preach to others and have child molesters. It looks like and is hypocrisy.

I'm a catholic, and are pro choice and also believe a priest should be able to have a family like all the other religions. God never made these rules, they are all man made. It is not natural and against nature to live like they do.

Abortion clouds Obama event ? This sounds like North Korea talking about “Our Dear Leader”. But it is just the usual MSNBC socialist mentality, the event is the recognition of the graduates of Notre Dame, just to be sure we are using an appropriate sense of proportion.

When did President Obama become a Catholic ?

Who cares what these 'cult worshippers' think. No wonder the Protestants detest what Rome says.

The Catholics elect a former NAZI as their pope, nice.

15,000+ Catholic priests are child molesters.

Who cares what these nutbags think.

Isn't it funny, not really. When the Priest(s) in charge of running Notre Dame, care more for political support than the principals that the university was first founded on. I am not catholic, however when a school establishes principals on which it is to be run, then allows the powers to be to invite such a person, be they president or not to speak, it DISHONORS the school as well as the religion that it professes to uphold. I have honor for those who will be arrested today, to be prosecuted by this same university. As well as those who have worked many years to gain a degree but today refuse to attend the ceremony honoring their work, BECAUSE of the keynote speaker,and the principals he champions. Notre Dame will be the spotlight of the news tonight, with pictures of religious leaders being arrested, and only a brief few seconds of Obama's speach.

The Catholic lay people are by-and-large Democrat. I think a lot of the reason for that is because they were considered outcasts to be persecuted by "the moral majority" Republicans of old.

I didn't post that to this discussion...however, one cannot ignore the fact that while we certainly FOUNDED this country by our forefathers fleeing religious zealotry mixed with government in England, zealots of another fundamentalist equation (Calvinism, Puritanism) came with here with them. First it was predestination and only a certain number of people were saved and the rest were scurvy spiders being hung over a flame by a merciless God with all those sinners on a "Slippery slope" *origin of slippery slope fallacy*...then we got Revivals and the notion from the incredibly unwashed masses that anyone could be saved and God is love rather than fear... and so on and so on....so which EVOLVING doctrine made my men should we believe. You are correct, THESE DEIST Founding Fathers were very spiritual and religious, however, they were expressly against any religion rising the to level of power over any sect of any religion, hence the notion in the First Amendment. What they were against was these hypocrites imposing religious dogmas as laws. And my notes on English common law origins CAME DIRECTLY FROM THE RESEARCH OF THOMAS JEFFERSON. I didn't make it up. I think Jefferson might know what he's talking about since he was in a better position to observe than anyone blabbing on this board in 21st Century. These notions were not just in correspondence between Adams and Jefferson, they appear in our Constitution for a reason, but that doesn't mean they were against religion perse, they were against it for the PERVERSIONS of clergy and laity projected onto it, presumptions of speaking for God in terms of laws and government. That's the perversion and NONE of the first presidents believed in Christianity nor practiced it, especially when it came to laws of the land. Unitarianism was the preferred mode for these guys. Nice try though.

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831. One might expect a modern defender of the Evangelical to play with the meaning of "Christianity," making it refer only to a specific brand of orthodoxy, first sentence quoted in John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans, second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15

We need to stay on track on this subject. It is not about Presidnt Bush, it is not about economy, or Obama's fight to restrict his birth certificate, or his stopping prayer in the white house, or the dumb torture question, it is about ND and its principles and place in our society. ND should be above granting an honorary degree to an avocate of killing babies, whether by scissors in the neck or a pea in the womb. Obama is sick and should never be allowed to speak to young people that have gone to a religious school to learn right from wrong, as he does not practice it himself.

May God Bless Nortre Dame, God Bless America, and we should all pray tha Mr. Obama will once again change his thinking. May God Bless all the protesters, and fill the streets with thousands of protestors today.

Obama supports abortion rights but says the procedure should be rare.

Abortions in America have almost surpassed all of WWII casualties including the civilians and the Holocaust. That sounds rare, now doesn't it.

Abortion is a subjective issue so can never be resolved, and in particular I question men who are so passionate about the issue since they will never become pregnant, and they are a large part of the problem because THEY don't step up to the plate regarding contraceptives (condoms) or the responsibilities as a father. It's a real turn off when I see men at these protests.

In the meantime, Obama strives to find areas of agreement so that unwanted pregnancies can be reduced in the first place. This includes programs to help women keep the unborn child. Adoption is not a solution for many women, since it is just as emotional a decision if not more than abortion. What is our society doing to make it possible for women to be single mothers and not live in poverty? I never hear Christians discussing this, which I see as a very moral, religious matter. Expecting women to live in poverty is NOT what Christ would do.

The hypocritical positions of social conservatives is a dog that don't hunt no more.

Fundamentalist fanaticals, be it Islamics or Christians, are still fundamentalist fanaticals - and are a danger to the American way of life.

It all boils down to the same negative - religion.

"Religion is the worst thing that's happened to mankind" - George Carlin ... and I agree with Carlin.

Throughout the history of mankind, "religion" has been at the base of all wars.

"Imagine" there's no religion. It's easy if you try. No Hell below us, above us only sky.

I contend that everyone is pro-life, although many of us believe it's the woman's right to choose. Like Obama, I am pro-choice, but abortion is not a personal option. I think there's a lot of pro-choicers out there like us - we support a woman's right to choose, although it wouldn't be a personal choice of ours.

Did Obama ask to give this commencement speech, or was he invited?

The real question is do we rule by polls or law. Are laws created by judicial opinion or legislative action. Do we empower the courts by appointing activists who make decisions on the basis of their opinions and life experiences or by statute. The fickle nature of the populace through polling should tell us that poll driven government is dicey at best. I am sure the supporters of the Presidents position are stunned by the shift in opinion and are ready to poo poo polls as insignificant. The other side will be just as delighted to claim victory. The truth is polls have nothing to do with right and wrong they only create a talking point for partisan scoundrels who cant wait to slice and dice the voters into a constituency.

ADDITION:

Where are these folks on health care reform? In case they don't know, many women don't have health care insurance, and if they do, many policies exclude maternity costs.

Where are these folks on labor rights? Many employers do not provide sufficient maternity leave, and depending on the woman's job (for example, sales with a quota), she can't take time off without putting her job in jeopardy. And this is before day care and other issues can be discussed.

Republicans are so knee-jerk fast to chant their simplistic and illogical sound bites. Until people get serious and are willing to invest in real, in-depth discussions about the many complex problems we face, real solutions will be hard to achieve. If they are left out of the decision-making process, so be it. Progress is needed, and progress we must have.

PS - If you're going to make statistical claims, please provide your source. Anti-intellectualism conservatives are notorious for conspiracy theories and other questionable information gathering/distribution techniques.

I am not a Catholic but I firmly believe what God has created is God's choice to destroy. Men and women may have a part in it but it is God who determines the final outcome. You can either be with him or oppose him as there is no straddling the fence.

Football has been ND's horse.

Actually, the Irish were pissing out the front doors of their caves when Islam developed Algebra (Al-gebra) and its derivatives. Many other contributions to science and mankind have been developed by Islam. U of ND certainly offers algebra and its derivatives to their students. Islam should be suing for plagiarism right now instead of either standing by or flying airplanes into buildings.

Hit the Irish (and Italians) were it hurts, their bank accounts (illegal ones). What have the Irish (and Italians) contributed to the remainder of society except for good old boy-ism in city (and county) governments across the country, corruption, stealing creative works from the creative (pragmatism cannot provide this), etc? Aside from the few in the medical fields, they have done nothing. Oh, did I leave out the Jew?

If one were to trace wrong-doing back, a great percentage would be traced to the aforementioned groups (not religion).

Combine the Irish, Jew, and Italian with the Black President........ Un-f-ing real.

Truepatriot. Your name is a lie. You stand in oppostition to the freedoms we are guaranteed under our constitution. This is not a Theocracy we live in----it's a Democracy (or Republic would be more descriptive). The President is bound to uphold the law and the law in this country, (and most civilized free countries) is that women have the right to control their own bodies. I, personally, find it wrong to abort a healthy fetus just for the sake of birth control. At the same time, the woman should have access to professional medical expertise in getting an abortion, if that is her choice rather than the back-room quacks. In many cases, where for example the fetus is obviously terribly, terribly deformed or the pregnancy is caused by rape or incest, who in the hell are we to tell the woman she should have to carry it to term?

I'm opposed to partial birth abortion , UNLESS the life of the mother is in danger and then why are you more qualified than that mother or father, if she's unconscience, to make that last minute call?

What a short memory you liberals have! You liberals were calling Bush all kind of names and protesting against our views! In turn you liberals are calling anybody that doesn't agree with your liberal views a extremist or even a terrorist! Pull you head out of your liberal ass! You liberal sheep voted in a President that may not even be from this country let a lone a communist! This country is in serious financial trouble because of his multi-trillion dollar spending bill! Before you liberals blame Bush- due the math (not liberal math)! Pelosi, Reid, Janet Nappyhead, and Odumbo need to go!

As far as the subject of the protesters, lawful protest is their right. Vandalism ( the smearing fake blood mentioned in the article ) and any other acts outside the law should result in arrests. Were these upstanding Catholics also protesting a war which their Pope criticized? Do they protest the policies in this country that fall short of the "cradle to grave" sanctity for human life that the Vatican has stated? If they have, they need better PR people setting up the press coverage.

On the stem cell issue, I'm still wondering how throwing unused embryos in the trash after the expiration date is better than using them for research that could help thousands or even millions of people. No pro-lifer has explained that or, to my knowledge, started a movement for women volunteering to bring these embryos out of the freezer, carry them to term, and adopt them in any numbers to make it a moot point.

As far as the abortion issue goes, this isn't China. If you're a woman you have the right to carry to term if you don't believe in abortion and encourage others to do the same under existing laws. No one is forcing you to get an abortion. As far as the "I don't want my tax dollars paying for it" argument, I don't like my tax dollars supporting faith-based initiatives that can be used to promote religion and blur the separation of Church and State, or funding preemptive wars based on BS pretenses, or bailing out companies whose CEOs decided borrowing beyond the companies' value was a good thing, but I learn to deal with it without taking any action that will get me arrested.

The Honorary Degree should never have been offered to a promoter of child killing. Norte Dame has gone off the deep end. Very Sick indeed.

No one had a problem when it was offered to a human killer. In 2001 Bush gave the speech and got the degree, while his stand on the death penalty as governor of Texas defied Catholic teaching. Can't find evidence anyone protested him.

In 5/07, Bush spoke at St. Vincent, a Catholic School, after leading us to a terrible war causing death to at least 500,000 post born, previously living, human men women and children:

The announcement that Bush would speak at the small Roman Catholic school had prompted a spirited debate among students, faculty and alumni over whether his policies — on the war in Iraq but also on the environment and the economy— contradicted Catholic teaching

After weeks of debate over an invitation to President Bush to address Saint Vincent College’s commencement, graduates listened without a ord of dissent Friday as the president urged them to “make service more than a line on your résumé.”

No one protested.

So, if you follow the teachings of Jesus - which is what I would think Catholics think they do - how can you protest abortion and support war? I have heard many claim that if we don't agree with this hypocrisy we don't love God! The Name of Jesus is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you!

HOW IS KILLING HUMANS BEFORE THEY ARE BORN BAD, BUT KILLING THEM AFTER THEY ARE BORN IN WAR IS OK?

BY MAKING ABORTION A LITMUS TEST OF MORALITY, BUT WAR ACCEPTABLE VEHICLE FOR ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL GAIN, YOU PROVE YOU HAVE YET TO LEARN THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.

He said they will know we are Christians by our love.

Loving the unborn at the cost of love for the born is not what He meant!

If I was in the crowd during his speech, I would throw my shoes at him.

d

John Hancock "The very existence of the Republic..depends much upon the public institutions of religion."

John Witherspoon, signer, member of the Continental Congress, President of Princeton University "Whoever is an avowed enemy of God; I scruple not to call him an enemy of his country."

Noah Webster "Our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament or the Christian religion."

Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian. -- Richmond v. Moore, Illinois Supreme Court, 1883)

Religion,period is always the problem never the answer.Disney re invented it for you.Go to your majic kingdom and stay there.Leave the rest of us to our freedoms and choices without the threat of theocratic tyranny...............drink your koolaid or(Blood of christ) as you call it and suceed like the Amish.......Bye.

Hello LAST - so, are you saying that no Notre Dame student has ever received a Pell Grant or a Stafford Student Loan? I am not trying to be a wise ass. I really don't know the answer.

And, I DID NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA et al.

As much as the Catholic Church has managed to extort over the course of history, all students at the U of ND should be able pay for college (them and the Jew). I know that back in the day (circa 1983-84) I was offered a stipend of $12,000 plus the cost of tuition, books, etc to attend graduate school at U of ND.

To be honest, I found that amount demeaning but, then again, that is why it was offered. Adding in a couple of zeros might have redirected my attention.

For what's worth, a Jesuit can bite my azz. The other side can too.

I have seen far too much of their "reverse" discrimination. The better (top) grades went to Jews and Catholics at the U. of Iowa's Biology Dept. Better grades bettered chances for admission to medical and dental schools. Thus, the Catholic (and Jew) could achieve good works while all others could eat sxit. Too many received A's over the higher achieving student.

Biotechnology can obtain stem cells from other sources than embryos. Politics has prevented science from proceeding as it should. God gave people the abilities to look where others cannot. And, God will prevail.

Let's get some of these diseases taken care of once and for all. They can find other ways to achieve good works.

The President should have told these arrogant chumps at Notre Dame to keep their honorary degree and get another commencement speaker.

99% will be so drunk that they will forget what he says.

For the record, a Jesuit can kiss my azz. The other side can too.

ND has always been a pretty awsome university to me, eventho I am alumi from Indiana University. Lots of football, and sports events in my past. And I still love it. As to the honory degree given to our President, Obama, it was given in good faith to him as his "reward" for being speaker. And really should be thought in that vein. I read the article and was looking for some quotes from his address to the graduates. I was sincerely disappointed by finding nothing from his speech. Our President has inspired so many around our wonderful country with his wit, wisdom, and knowledge. mj

Hey Keepamericasafe - Here's my reply to your comment: Since you think that a "reputation" is on the line at Notre Dame - I can point out "3" dedicated conservative Republican former classmates of mine who have had abortions while in college!! And, I can bet you my life that at least 5 out of 10 Rebublican daughters have had "secretive" abortions throught their early 20's!

Now, here's my challenge to you - Find me ONE human being in this world who can satisify the ENTIRE world all at once, and let me know who that person is. Then I will ask you, "What LAB was he/she built out of?!!!"

Doug,

The same measure you use to judge will be measured back to you. That is a law that can not be broken and which you are a perfect example of.

someone above posted how the right can't be taken seriously because of their comments.

most people who vehemently oppose abortion to the point of violence at least have a coherent argument. they oppose the killing of the unborn and think no one has the right to do that.

"Who oppose abortion to the point of violence" is a coherent argument?

Violence is viable for those who hate violence?

Killing the unborn sends you to hell, but killing live humans in war will send you to heaven?

This is a coherent argument?

Pro-lifers yell that if you aren't with them you are going to hell, then wonder why the rest of think they doing Jesus no justice.

Thanks to all who posted. Not every one swings to extremes. In fact, I would venture to say that many people stand in the middle on this issue--morally against abortion, but supportive of a woman's right to choose; that is where I stood. I am moving towards the right on this.

What I've read here and elsewhere from pro-choice is nothing but rationalizations, nothing solid to show me that I should support and advocate the abortion of healthy fetuses in cases that are not due to the mother's health. If the fetus is not aborted, the mother will die is is different than if the fetus is not aborted, even though healthy, it will have "an unhappy life," as one poster on another site put it, which is saying both "Better dead than unhappy," and "I know the future," neither of which I believe to be true.

(Thanks especially to dore, who, while spewing that religion has killed millions of innocent people (government has murdered more), and while labeling her opposition as "morons," still manages to support the taking of innocent lives though abortion. Oh, and will-363364, who brought up the ridiculous the-fetus-didn't-ask-for-consent argument.)

***

Hope Forpeace,

Killing the unborn sends you to hell, but killing live humans in war will send you to heaven?

This is a coherent argument?

No, I don't think it is coherent, but either is the reverse--killing humans in war is immoral, but killing the unborn is moral.

most people who vehemently oppose abortion to the point of violence at least have a coherent argument. they oppose the killing of the unborn and think no one has the right to do that.

Right. They value life so much that they will commit acts of violence toward another... and you say they have a coherent argument?

No doubt most of these are the same people that oppose welfare. They support the life and well being of a fetus until it starts breathing. Then they want to know why a child's welfare is their problem.

LOL okaaayy

lol Hope you beat me to it

Mr keepamricasafe,

To those anti-Obama demonstrators and self-righteous prigs like you, it seems you have little concern for the millions of American children who are undernourished and are lacking adequate healthcare and never raise even a whisper of protest over the mass slaughter of thousands of American soldiers and innocent Iraqis in an unnecessary, immoral and illegal war.

Also, I believe it is time for you to draw your attention to the thousands of homicides that have occurred here in the U.S. due to the lack of any meaningful control in the distribution and sale of guns. Is this not also a ‘PRO-LIFE’ issue?

The dictionary’s definition of, ‘Hypocrite’: “Somebody feigning high principles. Somebody who pretends to have admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings but behaves otherwise.”

I missed it my wife and I had better things than listen to more lies, brainwashing from Barry.

After all this is the guy that said that he wants abortion available to his daughters in case they make a mistake. What a cold-hearted statement. Notre Dame folded to pressure. Wimps!!!

No doubt most of these are the same people that oppose welfare. They support the life and well being of a fetus until it starts breathing. Then they want to know why a child's welfare is their problem.

Tempest19,

Your statement raises valid questions, but perhaps not only the ones you wanted the reader to ask. Where does responsibility begin? Does it begin with abstinence, with the use of contraceptives, with conception, after the child is born or is there no responsibility for anyone but the taxpayer? If a woman is facing an unwanted pregnancy, did the taxpayer have any say in whether or not the woman would act irresponsibly? Shouldn't woman, and men, be responsible for their own actions? If not, why not?

Schwannomin:

You wrote:

"Rhonda, the reason you can't say it is alive or it isn't alive is because "life" is a matter of interpretation. From a biochemical perspective, a fetus is alive, but so is the egg, which is killed once a month upon a woman's period. So is a sperm cell, which are killed by the millions every time a man ejaculates. A fertilized egg is alive. A tumor is alive. All kinds of human things, from that perspective, are alive that we feel no remorse in killing."

I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF BIOLOGY TO YOU! A sperm, an egg, and a tumor do not comprise HUMAN life. In contrast, a fetus does comprise HUMAN life. Once the sperm and egg unite upon fertilization, a new HUMAN being (46 chromosomes) is formed. It is a scientific fact that there are no other life forms on earth, besides human beings, with 46 chromosomes. Geeeeeeeeeeze! I thought you knew that! Did you ever take a biology course and pass?

So, comparing HUMAN life with NON-HUMAN life is ignorant, ludicrous, and intellectually dishonest. Please get a library card and read a book about basic biology. Until then, please refrain from tortured comparisons between a fetus and an egg, sperm, or tumor. You're only showcasing your ignorance.

Exactly what do protests accomplish?

Having attended the U of Wisconsin Madison back in the day. Night after night, protestors walked up State St. to the WI Capitol protesting the War in Vietnam. As a vet myself and receiving the GI Bill, I quickly learned that I was alone. So, I turned to beer and girls to ease the pain of being not the same.

Nothing changed until it's time.

Pragmatism sucks. Everything is political, philosophically speaking. In my humble opinion, opinions mean squat. BFD.

I am surprised that the Catholic Church is against abortion...what better way to curtail the gay population by killing them before they can get "married". Not to mention the lawsuits they will not be getting for molesting those kids.

But then again, they may get a few straights in there to...we'll just call that collateral damage...like Bush/Cheney.

Ask a woman who is pregnant and wants to be and she will shout from the roof tops that she is having a baby, she'll show you pictures of her unborn baby. Ask a woman who is pregnant and doens't want to be and she has a fetus. What's the difference, can you tell me?

How many ppl have died because of religion as far back as man can remember. How many ppl died because of politics, as far back as man can remeber.

How many people have died for the almighty dollar, since the dollar was made.

How many were sacrificed for the almighty dollar because of religion/politcs and vice-versa.

Until you ppl and I mean all ppl realize religion/politics/money rule this world and the ppl who control those things, don't give a s-it about you and will control and use you to get their way and maybe even kill you if they have too.

You think anything you say or do will change this, the only thing that will save this country and this world is the ppl that don't belong to these group's band together and unite. And since I don't see that happening. You ppl just want to bicker about stupid s-it. Good luck when the world falls into anarchy, happy hunting :)

FREE COUNTRY MY ASS WE HAVEN'T BEEN A FREE COUNTRY SINCE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION. GODDAMN SHEEP.

riverstomp it begins with prevention of unwanted pregnancies which as I stated in another post .. the largest and the loudest of these anti-abortionists are against. If they don't want to prevent unwanted pregnancy, and they don't want abortion then they should shut up about welfare and the abuse of it.

But they'd rather decide who should have sex and when and if it doesn't conform to their beliefs then these people should be punished for it. Of course they don't use the word punish.. they substitute it with the word "consequence" which amounts to the same thing.

And yes it is these same people that gripe about welfare. This is the religious right who are Conservative and would like to see welfare done away with. They call the families of the people on welfare names and gripe about why their tax money goes to those who are "lazy".

Notre Dame made a mockery of what it has stood for in the past today.

Great question TJM07. An equally relevant inquiry would be since MD's are now able to operate on the unborn in the womb for spinal bifada and many other conditions to save their lives, why would they be regarded with no intrinsic value as a human being per Federal policy? I've never heard of physicians administering life-saving or repairative procedures to inert matter.

Judge Napolitano hits the nail on the head when he compares the Dred Scott decision to Roe vs. Wade. Both decisions in effect classified human beings as inhuman and without Constitutional rights and protection.

This seed is about amoral issue regarding the Catholic Church. President Obama knows that the only way to beat someone is to cloak yourself in their own garb. He knows that he will need the Catholic votes in 2012. By his own admission, being a dedicated follower of Saul Alinsky he knows just how to win friends and manipulate people. The man in his short political career has demonstrated a staunch support for Planned Parenthood and has not seen a pro-abortion legislation that he would not vote for. The ironic element of all of this is that Chicago African-American Protestant religious leaders were fooled by Margaret Sanger who founded Planned Parenthood. Her work and writings are well-documented relating to how she desired to truncate every African American fetus' life in the womb. Her supposed motives were outlined in her writings and overtures to Black leaders the concept that if we abort all of the unwanted African American children, that there would be more resources and a better standard of living for the rest of you folks. Research her career and Malthusian Eugenic influences. Like many today in public office, it is merely an economic and political issue. Sanger's legacy lives on and is being manifest as we speak by the highest office of our land. All part of amoral social engineering. Cold. Real cold.

Schwannomin:

You wrote:

"I don't think any thinking person can say "life begins at x." I think what we can say is full rights as a citizen can be arbitrarily defined as starting at x. From that point on, intentional ending of life is a crime, but it's important to emphasize this is an arbitrary starting point that is minimally better than any other starting point. Quit with the absolutism! In an allegedly educated and enlightened society, we have to come at this dilemma from a rational position."

Well then, how about this for a rational position? Medical science has determined that the best measure for determining when human life ends is the cessation of brain wave activity. So, logically wouldn't the best measure for determining when human life begins be the earliest detection of brain wave activity? If so, fetal brain wave activity has already been detected at around 10 weeks of gestation (within the first trimester of pregnancy when most abortions occur).

And who knows? As technology progresses by leaps and bounds, perhaps fetal brain wave activity will be detected even earlier during gestation. This already means that we are deliberately killing millions of innocent human beings each year without a whimper from folks like Schwannomin.

But just try to waterboard mass murderers like the leaders of Al-Qaeda! Then the left-wing kooks come out of the woodwork to defend such culprits, who merely suffer the discomfort of having water poured down their mouths/noses. Go figure!

I just listened to Obama's speech. I didn't plan to, but with all of the publicity it peaked my curiosity.

At the beginning a heckler tried to disrupt the speech, but the students drowned him out and cheered Obama when he responded with intelligence understanding.

I know that you zealots are doing your best to discredit your President, but you're doing nothing but making him look good.

Obama will go down in history as one of the worlds greatest leaders and you can pat yourself on the back as helping him along the way.

You're playing checkers. He's playing chess.

OWEbama had the Audacity to say "Its the way of life a Notre Dame and a tradition to be fair-monded"... WTF OWEbama??? LIFE! Get it, its a way of life at Notre Dame to be PRO-LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama is both a hypocrite and liar. The Catholic Church is also a hypocrite for giving a known supporter of abortion an honorary degree. I was raised Catholic and now know why I no longer attend church.

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He gave us the words and laws to live by. But he also gave us a most important law. FREE AGENCY. We are free to CHOOSE our actions in this life and will be rewarded for, or suffer the consequences of, accordingly.

I am always hoping someone can explain this nonsense to me?

I support slavery, but believe it should be rare. It should be up to the individual plantation owner to use his or her own conscience.

I support genocide, but believe it should be rare. It should be up the the individual despot to use his or her own conscience.

I support medical experiments that maim or kill human life. It should be up to the doctor to use their own conscience.

You need to change your name with that attitude. America will never be safe as long as we have people that aren't willing to go forward !!!

OWEbama had the Audacity to say "Its the way of life a Notre Dame and a tradition to be fair-monded"... WTF OWEbama??? LIFE! Get it, its a way of life at Notre Dame to be PRO-LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah!! How dare you call these pro-lifers FAIR-MINDED!!

Way to defend the pro-lifers grrto!! You go boy/girl... whatever you are!!

lmao omg

A "fair minded debate" with a liberal?! Now that is hillarious!!!

A "fair minded debate" with a liberal?! Now that is hillarious!!!

LOL.. with a statement like that you question anyone else being fair-minded?

Funny

Hah!! Since when does Obama turn down impressive titles he has done nothing to earn?

Jesus give two commandments:

1. To worship only one God. But the Christians made Jesus a God, so they broke that one right off the bat.

2. To love your brother as you love yourself. You're not doing too good on this one either, are you??

I hate to shock you zealots, but you are attacking one of your own. Obama is not only a Christian, but he's one of those annoying, bible thumping Christians. He just keeps his religion separate from his job - which is what he's supposed to do.

Jesus loves Obama.

Now you can crucify Jesus just like you do to anyone else that doesn't follow your insanity.

Tempest19,

You didn't fully address what I see as a fundamental question in regards to this issue. Your answer of, "If they don't want to prevent unwanted pregnancy, and they don't want abortion then they should shut up about welfare and the abuse of it," pushes the responsibility onto the taxpayer (I don't know why you say a taxpayer shouldn't complain about welfare abuse, no matter what his or her beliefs are on this issue). What I meant by my question was not at what point should the taxpayer take responsibility, but who should take responsibility? Perhaps you believe it is entirely the taxpayer's responsibility, but because I perhaps wasn't clear initially I'll rephrase: Who is responsible for preventing unwanted pregnancies? Shouldn't women and men be responsible for their own actions? If not, why not?

As for consequences, I don't know that anti-abortionists are substituting this word for punishment. Consequences can be either good or bad. I was pregnant when I was 18yrs old. The consequences of my actions, that of having unprotected sex, was that I had a baby when I was barely 19. There are things I missed out on--dating, parties, attending college with my peers. I didn't see this as punishment, but rather the consequences of my earlier poor judgment. I blame no one but myself. As for having a child, another consequence, in no way do I consider this punishment. I had a beautiful little girl, who grew up well, went to college to become a teacher, and is now a mother herself.

And yes it is these same people that gripe about welfare.

The above seems too broad of a statement--other people, not just those who oppose abortion, complain about the cost of our welfare programs.

It seems to me that if Obama can receive an Honorary degree,

the broken down education system, problems w/over population for the amount of jobs to support a roof as well as an improved economy would occur if honorary education degrees would be awarded to the parents unltimately responsible for preparing children for the

"REAL WORLD".

Do parents get to know their children or even how many children they have with work schedules as they are and school hours possibly increasing?

Define "fair-minded" debate -- is that like bi-partisan - if you don't agree with Obama then you are not being "fair-minded"? Or if you won't vote far leftism than you are SOL!

This is just another spin on his way or the highway but let's pander to the voters and try to make them believe we care. How about free neutering clinics for men and women instead of abortions? We do it for dogs, why not humans?

Will,

What right does a child have to live off another without permission? This is your argument? Are you serious? Biology 101 says that the woman gave her permission when she couldn't hold a tylenol between her legs. Since everyone already knows that pregnancy could result from sex then consent is implied. DUH.

Ever wonder why the media always refers to people that promote life as "anti-abortion" and it refers to those who promote the death of children as "pro-choice"? Funny, huh?

It seems to me that those who were protesting abortion are more concerned with being part of an activist movement than really helping to stop abortions. If they truly wanted to help to save an unborn child's life, then instead of standing on the streets holding signs and arguing with those that disagree with them, instead they could offer their time as a volunteer for services that offer opportunities to women who are faced with this awful decision. No woman undergoes an abortion and is happy to have done it. Their are many women out there who may have chosen to keep their babies if they felt they had any other choice. My church has recently built an apartment complex where an unwed mother may live, recieves help in job services and pursuing an education. Daycare is available to them and the women are allowed to "shop" for necessities for themselves and their new babies in the thrift store in the church's community center where the items are donated and then given to those who need them. This is available through donations and the time that is volunteered by those in the community who would really like to make a difference on the abortion issue. I would venture to say more children's lives have been saved through this method than simple protests.

Your answer of, "If they don't want to prevent unwanted pregnancy, and they don't want abortion then they should shut up about welfare and the abuse of it," pushes the responsibility onto the taxpayer (I don't know why you say a taxpayer shouldn't complain about welfare abuse, no matter what his or her beliefs are on this issue).

Because of laws like this one that Bush slid into the works on his way out..

Dec. 19, 2008 -- An 11th-hour ruling from the Bush administration gives health care workers, hospitals, and insurers more leeway to refuse health services for moral or religious reasons.

Under the new "right of conscience" rule, any worker with a "reasonable" connection to the delivery of health care -- including employees who clean equipment -- can refuse to take part in services such as abortion, dispensing birth control drugs and other forms of contraception, or offering advice about such services. Health care organizations that do not provide written confirmation of their compliance with the rule by Oct. 1, 2009, will be denied federal funding and could be asked to return funding they have received. It is expected to cost more than $44 million to implement the rule, which applies to more than 584,000 health care organizations across the U.S.

There was already a law in place to protect anyone that didn't want to provide abortions.. but that wasn't good enough.

So when tax-payers vote for leaders that allow religious zealots to push their "moral beliefs" into legislation, then the consequences fall on their shoulders. If you are going to interfere in someone's personal life and decisions, then you make it your business, your problem and your responsibility.

If people don't like the consequences of it then maybe they need to just stick to being responsible for their own personal decisions and choices and stop trying to legislate everyone elses.

(Obama did away with that nasty little piece of legislation .. YAYYY)

As for the use of the word consequences yes it can be a good thing.. but the context in which they use it implies punishment.

And as for it being a broad statement... not when it applies to the far religious right. This does not apply to moderates.

I must be missing something.................What does abortion have to do with graduation? I wouldn't want an abortion speech at my graduation, it doesn't reflect on my education that I work 4 years on.

I had an abortion in South Bend today to celebrate my graduation.

Let's see an open minded discussion on abortion...well...your either for murder or against it pure and simple. I choose to be against murder, unlike the liberals.

your either for murder or against it pure and simple

So then you believe a fetus should be granted the rights of a person and it should be treated as a separate entity from the mother and that mother and fetus should be treated as two individual patients?

Do you believe in autonomy?

Who gives a @!$%# about your view. My view of you went to the basement when you countenounced child
abuse in your religion. Preteens and early teens sodomized while you looked quietly on. Until you remove such an abomination from your religion you are nothing but a cult.

Pro life, pro death penalty, pro war... don't you people see the contradiction?

And screwing up Graduates' Commencement with the PRESIDENT as valedictorian, is gutter low class. Gee thanks, Granma. You have just ruined the coolest moment of my life.

And PRESIDENT Obama, walking into the Catholic fire at Notre Dame one week,

and into the Muslim fire in Egypt next week,

may not be the Messiah, but he is the ballsiest man in America.

So all you haters, SUFFER! He'll be around for the next 8 years!

may not be the Messiah, but he is the ballsiest man in America.

LOL Ben..

You did say come back tomorrow... not disappointed.. laughed again

a fair minded debate from a guy who thinks it is ok to let babies who survive their abortion die? Their excuse has always been they are not a person, well once they are born alive, they legally are a person!!!! What next, let the old and handicapped die too???

Roman Soldiers of Babylon,

It was you (Pontius Pilate) who sentanced Jesus to death,

He washed his hands in blood, and flung it on the heads of his subjects.

It was you who hammered the nails into the cross,

It was you (Romans) who pierced Jesus' side with a lance and then 'repented',

and then made that lance a 'holy' relic, and the instrument of death your symbol.

Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon foretold in book of Daniel.

How dare you claim the circumcised Jew Yeshua as your personal savior?

You murdered him, then murdered his followers, then perverted the religion, and then turned on his race.

GOD will judge you by your acts, not by your faith, contrary to what your Priest says.

Be still and utterly silent, and tremble before the LORD.

Not only should he have not accepted the degee but he should have also declined the invitation.

But most of all who is in charge of Norte Dame faculty and staff that he was even invited!!!!!! This person needs to be put on the soapbox and asked why they would even think about inviting him when he is pro-choice.

Shame on them but once again money and politics talk. This is certainly going to be a great discussion to have with our bishop. Since when is protesting againest the government illegal, what happened to our bill of rights that our forefathers stood up for.

I am not Catholic,

but I think there would have been a lot of better choices to speak @ Notre Dame than Obama.

I think it's an insult and slap in the face to have someone speak who shares such opposing view of life.

I personally would not participate in Notre Dame Ceremonies if Obama spoke....Suz

a fair minded debate from a guy who thinks it is ok to let babies who survive their abortion die?

If you were of a mind to be fair-minded you would see why he voted against the bill you are referring to.

Obama said, "On an issue like partial-birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that."

In addition to providing no medical benefit for women, pro-life groups oppose a health exception because they typically allow virtually all abortions to remain legal.

In other words anti-abortion groups opposed Obama because he was trying to protect the lives of mothers. Meaning if a woman needed an abortion to save her life they were against it. Guess death is okay with them as long as they get to decide who dies. That explains why a lot of them support the death penalty but oppose abortion.

This was a issue brought up by religious extremists to try to polarize the issue and ban abortions in ALL cases without regard for the safety and health of a mother.

Most states ALREADY have laws protecting a fetus should it be born alive as ALL our lawmakers are aware of when they vote on issues like these even if you are not.

"Obama seemed unfazed, saying Americans must be able to deal with things that make them "uncomfortable."

Does this meal Illegal Aliens too? They are tresspassing !! can we expect Obama* to give amnesty to the gangs of Illegal Aliens? Obama* should make the list of his campaign contributors Public, and display his REAL birth certificate. Illegals kill more americans than Abortions do.

Is it " moral and Spiritual " to kill ?

I am pleased to see someone take a stand in this abortion issue however, it is unfortunate that abortions are not retro-active, without being judged a murderer. If some mothers had chosen abortion or retro-active abortion we wouldn't have some of these wonderful statesmen to speak on this subject or received honorary diplomas.

The simple fact is that Obama was born in a time when bi-racial were not accepted and a majority were aborted. Pro-choice is not a contraceptive method, try a condom I've had great success with them.

And finally to the President of Notre Dame. What does Rudy think? You're the Prez now but they made a movie about the kid. You should have probably asked him first before you started pandering to the first black president to come by. Dumb-##s

Does this meal Illegal Aliens too? They are tresspassing !!

Not sure you're supposed to make a meal of illegal immigrants even if they are trespassing...

This topic is about pro-choice vs anti-abortion issues and Notre Dame.. not illegal immigrants..

That topic is two doors down and to your right..

I wonder if there was an alien of some kind that came to the US and we learned that it had the potential to kill a million babies or more every year if it wasn't stopped, just how many of the abortion devotees would favor just letting it kill? Is there a difference between a child killed by abortion or killed by some creature? I would guess that we'd be doing everything in our power to stop it. I'd bet that BO wouldn't be saying we need to be 'reasonable' about it. That creature is abortion and it's among us doing it's deadly work... with the support of politicans and women!!! I hope the judges that turned it loose on us are rotting in hell!!

How's this for a compromise?

No more abortion, except in cases of rape and incest, or when pregnancy endangers the life of the mother, and

mandatory castration and sterilization for all people with I.Q. below 85.

That would kill off the Republican Party within a generation.

Peter-741281 O its like the Protestant churches don have any money LOL that's down right dumb

"One of the noisiest controversies of his young presidency flared after Obama, who supports abortion rights but says the procedure should be rare," this is from the article discribing the presidents speach at Notre Dame, who supported the notion that even after a 3rd trimister abortion, should a child be born alive a hospital should not save the child, this president is the most radically supportive adminastration of abortion this country has ever seen

"Obama calls for 'fair-minded' abortion debate", If Obama was worried about being FAIR , John McCain should have had 605 million Dollars for his campaign too. One ACORN worker registered and voted 72 times, is that fair? it is NOT legal. Jerry Coleman...A woman 18 years old blew up a bus filled with innocent people in the UK. and a 12 year old kid blew up a school in Iraq. are you for that too?

Wow we are one arrogant group of humans. Wouldn't it be great if stupid people actually knew that they were stupid and just shut up and listen? Wouldn't it be great if people realized what doesn't work for you, just simply doesn't work for you? Now I'm not talking about educated people who learned off the minds of others, I am talking about truly intelligent open minded people. Wake up and climb out of your box. There simply is no situation that is identical to the other. We all have skeletons in our closets, and we have to live with them(right or wrong)

A woman 18 years old blew up a bus filled with innocent people in the UK. and a 12 year old kid blew up a school in Iraq. are you for that too?

What does that have to do with abortion?

If people don't like the consequences of it then maybe they need to just stick to being responsible for their own personal decisions and choices and stop trying to legislate everyone elses.

I agree. People need to be responsible for their own personal decisions and choices, and should stop trying to legislate everyone elses. This is what I was asking: Who is responsible for an unwanted pregnancy? Should women and men be responsible for their own actions? I say they not only should, they ought to. Yet, you say the taxpayer is responsible because of Bush, as if all taxpayers voted for Bush--they didn't, as you know. You write that "If you are going to interfere in someone's personal life and decisions, then you make it your business, your problem and your responsibility." I agree with this as well. So, following your logic, if you advocate legislation of tax monies for abortions and abortion clinics, or indeed, if you advocate legislation of tax monies for any purpose, then a taxpayer's lack of money due to taxes is your problem and your responsibility.

if you advocate legislation of tax monies for any purpose, then a taxpayer's lack of money due to taxes is your problem and your responsibility.

I've got no problem helping others in need. Do you?

I agree. Tax payers' lack of money is all our problem as we are all tax payers. Precisely why I voted for Obama. The trickle down magic and corporate welfare and loopholes that made it cheaper for companies to take their businesses outside of the U.S. so they could avoid paying taxes was indeed causing my fellow tax payers to have a severe lack of money.

I did my part.. what did you do?

You can thank me later by donating to Planned Parenthood.. lol

rightman1

One ACORN worker registered and voted 72 times,

Provide a source for any ACORN worker that voted 72 times. And while you're at it. Post it in an ACORN topic.

I guess it is now ok to murder innocent babies.. obama the almighty has spoken.. he does not want an increase in abortions he wants them to be rare.. LOL He has allowed the US Government to give its stamp of approval on abortion around the globe by givving money for that purpose. He along with all the leaders of the Democrat party are for late term abortions. That is the murder of a baby all the way up and before the actual birth.. I think Notre Dame should have followed Arizona States Example.. Let him come speak but no degree.

I have a question that I have never received an answer to. First off I was raised in the Cathloic religion and practice it to a dregree. My question is: if I were to divorce my husband, I would not be able to receive communion and be basically osterized by the church. Now if I were to kill him, all would be forgiven and I could practice my religion. Now, according to the bible that is one of the Ten Commandments. Who can tell me which is the greater SIN? I do not see anywhere in the bible about a person not being able to decide what they wish to do to their own body. Abortion is not a commandment but a man made law. Is there anyone out there that can answer me this question?

How hypocritical. I guess all the big time scholarship football athletes, as well as, all the professors at the university are anti-abortion. There is no way you can tell me that all the minority scholarship athletes are Catholic or anti abortion. particularly the ones from the inner-city. Once again the Catholic community shows its hyprocisy. I wonder if Jerome Bettis, Tim Brown, Brady Quinn, etc., were required to be anti-abortion to get their degree.

If you look at how hard Notre Dame, a once top ten school in Sports recruiting, is now suffering in getting even Catholic athleteses to attend that school you can see the erosion going on there and elsewhere in the Catholic Community. Church closings cutbacks etc across the nation. Not just Notre Dame. The people are saying stay out of politics. If you wish to believe life begins at the moment of conception so be it but it is not up to the government to further that belief for you. Only 19 people arrested does not make a groundswell of support.

BenCT

"mandatory castration and sterilization for all people with I.Q. below 85. That would kill off the Republican Party within a generation."

Sorry to break it to you, but college graduates voted almost 2 to 1 for McCain over Obama (exit polls). The Democratic Party has always depended on the undereducated for the majority of their votes. Why do you think they want open borders with Mexico?

"Protesters are angry about the school's decision to give President Barack Obama, who supports abortion rights and embryonic stem-cell research, an honorary degree at Sunday's commencement."

So does THIS mean that Notre Dame will not grant a degree to any student who satisfactorily completes his/her required course work, AND whose money they have willingly taken for their steep tuition fees if that student is not Catholic and/or supports abortion rights?

riverstomp, you forgot something in 1.124

Where does responsibility begin? Does it begin with abstinence, with the use of contraceptives...

How about comprehensive sex ed? It's kind of difficult ( especially for teens and first-year college students ) for to make responsible decisions regarding contraception when the parents are too embarrassed to educate them but won't let the schools discuss more than abstinence-only.

I'm glad the Catholic high school I graduated from had enough sense to put aside the Church's differences with Planned Parenthood long enough to have someone come in and give a decent class. Nothing like someone talking point-blank about STD's and odds with different means of contraception to make a teenager more likely to wait a few more years.

FYI -

Notre Dame changed their policy about giving honorary degrees about 5 years ago. This is what started the uproar. According to their new policy an honorary degree was not to be given to anyone that has views that differ from the church. Accordingly Obama should not have gotten the degree.

So, Tom, the answer to your question would be no.

I have a question. How would any of you like to celebrate one of the greatest accomplishments of your life with protesters interrupting? As someone who has spent tens of thousands of dollars on my education, and many years of hard work, I would be down right pissed off!

I do not agree with the majority of President Obama's policies, but this was a PRIVATE University, and a day to put aside differences and celebrate the back bone of this country, hard personal work to better ourselves and our nation. The protesters should have put their differences aside for this celebration and respected every single student accepting their hard earned degree.

I regard the protesters at this ceremony (on both sides, I am not picking a pro or anti side) as being just as disrespectful as those who protest soldier's funerals! Disgusting!

Tempest19,

I didn't expect you to refute you own logic, which you didn't, but I also didn't expect the flippant reply that you gave. However, perhaps you are sincere in your belief that voting for Obama is helping the taxpayer. If you truly believe this then it seems you and I do not see eye to eye on more than one issue.

namvet,,u really should seek some help

.

namvet66/67usmc, sound like the BUSH administration to me, the grand wizard Cheney, the one who was undercover like a mafia guy, he was the one to order torture and water boarding and all of that vile stuff.

19 people and this is news

19 people and this is news

Sad isn't it?

Namvet, from one to another, it is important for you to seek psychological help immediately.

Can't handle the truth, Joe? Go back to Lawrence Welk, pops.

I would rather live my life believing there is a GOd than live my life as if there is no GOD and die to find there truely IS a GOD.

I would rather live my life believing there is a GOd than live my life as if there is no GOD and die to find there truely IS a GOD.

Well if that is the case, in Catholic school I was taught that God is all forgiving and loving. Are you saying that they lied? No!

So you admit you only believe out of fear, how sad.

tarvis, the bible teach love and i believe in that, do unto others as you wish them to do unto you,

Religion is a man made invention to control the masses. Religion has nothing to do with spirituality, God, or any higher being.

Exactly!

Lu - Are you saying that because you are the most intelligent being who ever walked the planet - and therefore have irrefutable proof that God doesn't exist?

You'd have to be, because Albert Einstein believed in God, so did Abraham Lincoln, Galileo, Johann Sebastian Bach, Nicholas Copernicus, Martin Luther King, Mozart, Leonardo Da Vinci, J. R .R. Tolkien, Sir Isaac Newton, Ludwig von Beethoven, Michelangelo . . . and they were a lot more intelligent than you or the rest of us.

"...and therefore have irrefutable proof that God doesn't exist?"

And you, Angry, of course, have irrefutable proof that he does? I kinda doubt it. Even with "intelligent" men backing you, you have no proof. You have "belief", not proof. By your logic, I can post a whole list of "intelligent" atheists to 'prove' the non-existence of God.

Your argument is a sack of doo-doo.

I never stated that God didn't exist. I wrote one simple sentence and one compound sentence. I'm not sure where I lost you.

Might want to do some research on the names you threw out there. Apparently you're not very familiar with some of their relationships with "The Church".

And did you just put the Author of The Hobbit in the same league as Copernicus and Da Vinci??

You sound so angry!!!! Obviously, you donot have joy in your heart. JOY-Jesus, others,you. Religion is for sinners and church is the place to go for forgiveness. I will pray for you to find peace in your heart for all mankind.

LU - J.R.R. Tolkein did a lot more than just write THe Hobbit. He happened to be a brilliant linguist and a much sought after educator and intellectual. I'd like to see you do what he did with language. You don't have to be scientifically minded to be brilliant, but then that's why we keep losing funding for the arts, because of jerk offs like you who think that literary genius (he also wrote The Lord of the Rings, by the way) and intelligence in the fields of humanities isn't important. How about you try to live without arts and the humanities for a while and see how great the world is.

Notre Dame is a Catholic school that violated Catholic principles by inviting and giving an honorary degree to a President who has an opposing viewpoint and belief. It's a Catholic thing.

I understand there are movements afoot to make Notre Dame a Non Catholic school by removing or taking away the Catholic affiliation, and to remove the head of the administration. Actions of every administration (college or nation) are accountable. A lot of Catholic donors are angry, and it is their affiliation to do with what they want. Atheists not allowed (course you could always step up with your wallet and replace the big donors they are losing).

Remember: Term limits for Congress and vote ALL incumbents out for 2010! Except Pelosi - she's entertainment, and the poster child for "term limits for Congress".

Strange.. if a lot of the donors were against this that the school would go through with it knowing they'd lose their financing.

But then I guess it is okay to bend their principles depending on who it is right? Because I understand they oppose the death penalty too but invited George Bush. Where was all the uproar from that from these people that value life so much?

Just because they invite someone with an opposing viewpoint does not mean they agree with that person or support his ideas on the issue they disagree on.

This entire thing was simply an opportunity for anti-abortionist to make some noise. They should be happy about it instead of upset. And truth be known they probably were.

Hey Nam vet, you know the VA does offers help for your PTSD condition or what ever your suffering from....

Ahhh! i did tell him he needed help but doubt that he even listened.

There's another article on this site about mental problems from war.

After 40 years a person should be able to move on with their life. It's pretty sad to think that a person's only accomplishment is being drafted.