The party of know. We know this will kill our country.

I was wondering where Steele has been.

Maybe he'd like to comment on things that he knows about; like C-Street and "The Family".

What is the Republican plan?

Know the No word !!! Really now come on .........would Republicans have let the banks fail or car companies fail? NO, they didn't. Who signed the medicare reform bill in 2003 that cost us so much for Rx coverage with no ability to negotiate prices? Republicans, did that's who. Now I want health care reforms here, we need them. Steele brings nothing to the table. Did Rush approve this message?

Cynic - The Repub plan does not cover all Americans and is just a pretty piece of paper that brings none of the needed reforms that will save costs.

I was wondering where Steele has been.

Lu,

Good question. Where has the chairman of the DNC been? Does anyone even know his name? It's not the job of the party chairman to be plastered all over the news. His main job is fund raising behind the scene for the party. I know liberals hate minorities who are conservatives. You guys are not for minorities, only liberal minorities.

As a Republican I am proud to say NO to this or any moronic socialist plan, just as all leftists were proud to say No to anythig Bush proposed. Simply put, this is how politics work in America. Remenber, almost half of America was not fooled by the Teleprompter-in-Chief last year. What has he done to help change our minds and say YES? I will say he has driven me to a more passionate NO and now I am letting all of my elected officials know what I think. This chump in the White house will kill this country and you with it.

Reform! Okay, let's reform it. Let's use tort reform, get rid of the cost of illegals, take on the pharmaceutical companies and take on fraud.

Government run is not reform!

If they want to go into the insurance business, I say fine. One simple rule:

It is only funded by the premiums they collect, not subsidized with any tax dollars!

What is the Republican plan?

Same as it was when Jimmy Carter was President, minimized the damage and get rid of the Dems next year.

It does not take a rocket scientist to find all the short comings of this Healthcare plan. A small number of BO supporters have yet to see the forest from the trees. What part of this plan will benefit anyone except the 10% that want coverage and can't get it? Why punish 90% of Americans to help 10%? It would be a lot less expensive to help the 10% that need it.

The Republican plan has been posted on newsvine several times, go find it yourself. I don’t like their plan either. It’s just more Washington BS. Spend and tax benefits no one.

The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston poll shows 84% of Americans are satisfied with their current healthcare benefits and 46% of Americans without healthcare benefits are satisfied with the current healthcare system. BO, where is this healthcare crisis you and your cronies continue to cry about? Talk about lies and fear mongering, and the left complains about Bush. Hurry up and pass this bill before too many of the sheep wake and see the facts of healthcare in America. Americans you are being lied to by this administration. The BO networks need to stop endorsing everything BO and start reporting facts. Americans will soon grow weary and the BO networks will collapse. Then again they are on the verge of going down now and will soon expect a bailout from Washington for their help pushing his agenda. “The Wicked Witch of the West” continues lying to congress saying, “The American people are behind this plan.” She has been saying the CIA lied to congress but yet she does it to. It is illegal to lie to Congress so how about bringing her up on charges. Vote these lying idiots out of office now.

http://publicaffairs.uth.tmc.edu/media/newsreleases/nr2009/healthcare_reform.htm

I agree, the Republicans have nothing to offer except higher priced medicine, insurance companies based on Profit instead of taking care of health care and people dieing or being burried under mountains of debt becuase they cannot get health care. Call it whatever you want, but this country needs to start giving health care to every american not just the ones who can afford it. Health care in this country should be a right not a privlidge of those who have it. It's sad that the Republicans would rather take campaign money from big Health Care Companies than to protect the rights of the Citizens.

Also our gracious First Lady is participating strongly in the policies with all kind of meetings. Now I wonder who is the President of the United States of America?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/health/policy/19michelle.html?scp=2&sq=Michelle%20Obama&st=cse

Actually, as a I recall, a key component of the Republican plan was a targeted tax credit to assist people buy their own insurance from private companies.

The Party of No ?? You have that right!! No more spending!!!We are tired of spending our hard earned tax dollars on others . Why should I be responsible for your health care?? I earned my money.... it's mine to spend how I want to. You Democrats have elected a Robin Hood. Why should I pay for your health care because I am successful??? I am sick and tired of people wanting a handout!!!!

The Republican Plan is to stop this poor excuse of a President to control health care. Those of you that want to back Obama on getting this passed can only be those that don't have health coverage because they are not smart enough to figure out how to get it. They simply want it free. Don't know who coined the following phrase, but those people following Obama are just what the pharse is about. " Mass media have a terrible impact on people who lack guidance "

This HC bill is not reform, it would be more appropriate to label it HC repeat. There is not one thing in the bill which will reduce the cost of HC in fact as most know the CBO has said it will increase the cost of HC. 9 out of 10 Americans have some form of HC or chose not to have it for some reason or another. Some people could afford HC but chose to spend their money on unnecessary items. The number that wants HC and need it are often distorted. Only 10% of the population need HC but cannot get it. Why not just focus on these individuals instead of forcing the other 90% into government run HC? There are people who say I have HC but it is too expensive. Be careful what you wish for HC under this plan will cost you a lot more both financially and in freedom to seek HC choices. If you think Canada’s nationalized HC system is great you might also be interested in some prime beach front property in Oklahoma. To reform HC the attorneys need to be brought into check, they are the ones who drive up the cost. Guess what; the Washington bureaucrats are mostly made up of attorneys and this will not happen. This is a ridiculous why to go about HC reform and Washington knows it.

I am so looking forward to health care reform...........To all the naysayers.......it's about damn time !!!!!

Let this get worked on more before tossing it out the window. Give them a chance.....

Why is no one mentioning that a large percentage (25%+) of the 47 million number of "uninsured, or under insured" are illegal immigrants? Is it another "inconvenient truth?"

The Republican party is only known as the party of "NO" because they are not goose stepping along with Pelosi, Reid, Dodd, Frank, Kennedy and Obama.

As I said in an earlier thread that PMSNBC must have decided to pull, because too many were against their Socialist plan:

Email your Representative, Email your Senator or call them, they have 1-800 numbers you can look up on the web along with their addresses.

Tell them NO CHANGES IN OUR HEALTH CARE UNLESS THEY GIVE UP THEIR PLUSH HEALTH CARE PAID FOR BY US, AND BE SUBJECTED TO THE SYSTEM WE WILL BE IF THEY GET THEIR WAY!

You ever notice that when the GOP questions Democraps its called attacking but when the Democrap's questions Republican's it just a enquiry...You LIBS make me sick!!!!!!!

The republican plan is to allow you to get your own health care on your own time at your own expense.

Now if you want to talk about insurance reform - that is a whole other topic Obama and Wallshington won't even hear about.

Gotta love these socialist surveys!

If you want your government running your healthcare then you should remember what a fine job they did with Walter Reed Hospital and the numerous articles about the lousey health care our soldiers are getting when they come home. This is exactly what will happen to the entire country if this Health Care Plan is instigated. Same people will be running it.

Then you should think about all the greedy CEO's who run the insurance companies........Blue Cross Blue Shields's CEO got 3M last year alone. These are the people who will be sucking up your healthcare dollars and they are buddies of the politicians in DC! Why do you think they are pushing for it and greasing these crooks palms on a regular basis?

Not only will they limit the care of "repeated" claims filers...........cancer patients, the elderly, diabetics, and numerous other who have to have monthly treatments and monitoring.........but do you want the government going through all your personal medical treatment information deciding if you deserve to be treated? Do you realize that the government will have all your health information on their computers which could be hacked by someone or anyone in their office can read?

People who now walk into Emergency Rooms and receive free treatment will not get it when the Federal Government no longer provides funds. The hospital will no longer have to provide to treatment to anyone with an outstanding bill since they will not be getting that money and the treatment they do provide will cost three times as much. These same people who want the government to take over our medical healthcare will have to pay the deductible amount before they can get treatment paid by the government insurers and can't run to the emergency room instead without paying that. So, basically you have a situation where if you can't pay the deductible you still can't afford the treatment with this healthcare plan either.

Doctors are jumping ship already if you haven't noticed. Retiring early, changing professions, and changing majors in college - articles are appearing concerning this. We already have a shortage of doctors and it takes YEARS to train so no replacements are standing in the unemployment lines waiting. This will dump more patients on an already overloaded system.

The truth is that for many of us decisions regarding our health care are being made by machines. Thats right, machines... Specifically software run on computers that generate pre-deteremined responses to symptoms reported to doctors by patients. This has become standard practice at many hmo's including my own provider.

So much for the argument that health care reform will remove doctors and thier patients from the decision making process.

Cynic-731388 " What is the Republican plan?"

You'll find it in the trash can where Nancy Pelosi put it after saying "We won, so we're not interested in looking at your plan".

Snuffy: Well, you pretty much negated your own "message" by attacking the Dems ... calling them "Democraps" isn't an attack?!?

By the way, I think you meant "inquiry."

Come on and tell the truth, please, someday, anytime, waiting......waiting.........

I would like to know the truth too. There are five (5) versions of the health reform bill in Congress right now. The House has 3 versions and the Senate has 2. Which is the right bill? I could not tell you and I don't think anyone in Congress can either. Just this weekend the HHS Secretary Sebelius said the reform bill was a work in progress. Then there was the comment from the White House budget director (OMB) Peter Orszag: "The House has one approach. We put forward a different approach. The Senate is considering yet more options." Even the Congressional Budget Office can't answer the question of just what the health care reform bill will look like. In fact since July 6, 2009 they have reviewed and commented on all 5 versions. By the way none of the Congressional versions meets Orszag's requirement of: "The key thing is we need to get there in a way that is deficit neutral." Another thing, has anyone seen the Whitehouse's approach mentioned by Orszag?

Since the Congressional BUdget Office (CBO) has analyzed the plans and concluded that they will not "save" money, but probably cost even more money than the current system, they need to take a fresh look at what's really needed to accomplish a realistic goal.

It's foolish to rush things through too fast without a thorough review. The $787 Billion "Stimulus" package was rushed through without proper review and has done nothing to turn the economy around. Let's not compound one expensive mistake with another. That applies to "Cap & Trade" as well. Slow down, and do it right. It's taken us generations to get into this mess, so let's take our time fixing it so it's right.

Robert3rd: where were you durning the 8 years of cheney/bush spending our tax dollars like crazy drunks

you say NO MORE SPENDING why werent you saying that when cheney/bush were in office???

Folks:

Health care in this country costs 2 trillion dollars per year. This is around $6,500.00/person/year. These costs have been rising and will continue to rise much faster than the cost of living, and at a time when even prior to the recession we were making less money year on year for a decade or more. Obviously this can not continue in this way, especially with the huge numbers of people who do not have health care.

To jamb your boot heels into the ground and stop the inevitable requirement to reform the entire concept of health related business in this country is to be wishin' for them good ol' days. The fact is that there were only a few years when health care made much sense in this country, maybe from around 1960 until 1985. The system prior to this was for some pretty countryfied doctorin' and the system prior has sprouted wings in the abilities to provide good outcomes for what previously were death sentences in many diseases, however not everyone can afford these outcomes, or even regular basic health insurance.

Like most things that are very divisive these days it comes down to what we may be able to do, not what we wish would happen. Wishing is the domain of children. Please stop wishing and join the adult table to discuss what must be done to endure.

Good Luck!

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

below 50 percent for the first time. The poll had a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Couldn't the ones who are the below 50% pass the hat and pay for the uninsured?Couldn't the government let you Right off the donations you make for this?Using the same logic for the commie take over of health care by cutting the cost of treating the uninsured prices would drop. I know theres many rich including Obama's Yes Obama is a multi millionaire and he and his wife made most of it off health care investments-They Could afford to give a million or more just as 1000's of other rich people who are for this. Why don't they?

sumthin fishy:

There are not huge numbers of people without insurance! You need to look at the statistics. Of the so called "45 million" without insurance, approximately 10 - 12 million are illegals, so they don't count, 10 - 12 million are people making over $75k a year and pay as they go - which can be risky if something major happens, 10 million are the twenty-somethings who choose not to have insurance, job hop, and would rather have a fancy little BMW than to pay for something as "silly" as health insurance. So that leaves about 10 million people that have no health insurance. And for them, they have government health care - it's called Medicaid!

Sorry, but I don't think that the 75% of the population that are happy with their current health insurance should have to take some crappy government health care because a very small percentage of Americans and legal immigrants don't have it!

Yes, I believe some reform must happen in the health care industry. But Obama and his merry men do not have the right to dictate what kind of care I am going to get. And guess what, you won't see Obama and the rest of Washington or the rich standing in some government clinic health care line! They aren't the suckers they are trying to turn 90% of the population into!!

WE NEED A REAL PLAN FOR THE ECONOMY... AND HEALTH CARE CAN RIDE IN THE BACK SEAT!

PRIORTIES..... Vote against the Health Care Plan in any form...Republican or Democrat. This is a false issue in the grand scheme of things. Shouldn't even consider anything that doesn't require benefits for American Citizens only.

Trash it. Wait for 2010... get rid of the imbalance of powers.

(,,,and try to find a decent paying job)

Try this one. A certain representative in congress authored a resolution calling on any member who votes for the health care bill to join the government health care plan on voting instead of maybe if 5 years. Out of 435 representatives, there are 43 lawmakers, including the author, who signed the resolution. NONE are Democrats. Why they won't commit - they know the system will be worse than what they have. This means we don't have very many real friends in congress, only benevolent dictators who really aren't so benevolent!

Saw results of a Zogby/Univ. of Houston survey this morning on TV. Poll says 84% of respondents are satisfied with their current healthcare coverage, to include 46% of those with no coverage. Apparently, there is no crisis, so we need no drastic overhaul, especially one with a government giveaway option. Healthcare is a service, and one has to pay for it just like any other service. If you claim that it's a right, show me where the Constitution specifies that.

In 1970 when health care was still a not for profit enterprise health care spending was about $75 billion or $356.00 per person and accounted for 7.2% GDP. When profit became policy during the 1980s.... in order to "unleash" market forces and control costs... health care costs rose from 10 percent of gross domestic product in 1984 to approximately 15 percent currently. Health care spending has risen 2.4 percentage points faster than GDP since 1970. By 2016 health care spending will be over 4.1 trillion or $12,782 per resident and account for 19.6% of GDP.

We simply cannot afford a for profit health system that feeds billions of dollars to the corrupt, unethical, and greedy by destroying a population of ignorant people controlled by fear. We must return to a sane health system.....instead of continuing to feed the lucrative disease system that we cannot afford.

Thank Goodness someone in Washington knows how to say no! Maybe the Dems will be forever know as the party of bendover!!

GOZO: Healthcare was a not for profit enterprise? Are you telling me doctors worked free back then? How decent of them!

big papa....

you forgot to take your anti-bitterness pill. You pulled-out the "put blinders on your eyes" prescription that has been handed out by The President and his administration. No matter what he does... he will have those that follow behind like sheep to the slaughter.

The American public is being fleeced. Can you think of a worse time in this generation for jobs? And now we're faced with another huge government take-over that will force us into it! And then it's Cap and Trade... driving business out of the country. India told us to "take a hike" yesterday when it comes to climate control.

Big papa... when your job is farmed to India will your children do the Obama chant every morning?

Big Papa - you are like the kid that stole a cookie and blamed his brother for it. It's extremely childish to blame everything on the republicans when so many problems are the democrats fault. Grow up, would you? It's all politicians. They are a collective of power hungry, selfish bureaucrats that will lie to anyone to get a vote.

Stop the blame game and own up to your own party's responsibility in this mess. Sheesh!

I will NOT get behind the president on this. For your information he is trying to socialize this country. He's taking the land of the Red White and Blue away from us and turning it into Obamaland. Time to wake up Big Papa!

Obama wants to control spending and everything! This includes Health Care and the Earths temperature guage. I notice that he is pretty free-wheeling with the yet to be collected tax dollars. And the investments that he makes will probably not pan out to returns for us. While the lowly guy who borrowed too much is being chided because he did not count on the economy going to pot... the President and Congress are likewise doing the same thing... but with our future tax dollars. It's a roll of the dice instead of sound fiscal responsibility. It's like taking all of your credit cards and maxing them out to win in Las Vegas.

If it works, he will go down in history as the one who bailed us out. If it doesn't...we get the shaft and he gets his pension... and all of the heads turn the other way because of where he came from and the group of people he represents. He is in a no loss situation personally because he has broken the race barrier at the top. That is quite a feat in itself! But that should not mean that his policies should get a pass or that he should be judged any different than say...President Bush.

History will always be kind to President Obama because of the politics of race. I truly believe that lots of people voted for him because they wanted to set precedent and that President Bush and his administration set the thing in motion by blowing-up the economy.

If we take the race card out of the equation and stand on his the ultra liberal leanings ... Hillary Clinton is probably the one who breaks a barrier.

There are people of every race and gender that are qualified to be taken seriously in our political system. He just happens to be super left leaning and that is what we should have been taking notice of.

He's out to prove who is in control, and to change the dynamics of how things are controlled. Even this Health Care plan is mandatory with penalties included for those that don't buy in.

If it works he will be immortalized.... if it doesn't... he ends up on Mount Rushmore.

I know I touched a can of worms... but there it is. No one else wants to go there.

I think that this is another one of those scare tactics, remember the bailout and how Obama pushed that, it's the same right now, saying if they did not get it done now it would probably never happen, I'm not a Republican or Democrat but I'm not stupid either, something which is created with no planning or forethought never works out the way it is intended too, but here we are being pressured again, the problem is Obama seems more interested in keeping his campaign promise than what is good for the welfare of the country, we are in a deep recession and here he is spending like money is falling from the sky, it's going to be falling out of all our pockets, and the hardest hit will be the rich, even if this project of his was to go through how many unemployed people do you honestly think could afford health insurance without a JOB, this just does not make sense at this time.

I find it very interesting that you deleted a comment that had no derogatory words on it. 1.3

What on Earth are you guys so afraid of. Let health care pass and hope it fails. Hope the future of the American people is dismal and without health care. Then you can use this failure to rise from the ashes and restore the wealthy to what you believe is their rightful place as the privileged Americans who use government for their benefit by manipulating the masses.

Now that's a political platform - hoping for failure and misery so you can benefit personally and politically. Osama bin Steele.

All you have to do is look no further then the Liberal (Democraps) state of California (Just about bankrupt) and just see how well these free Liberal handout programs are working out!!!!!! And how they are paying for them!!!!

What we need is legal reform. If the frivolous lawsuits stopped HC cost would go down. The Washington bureaucrats are made of mostly lawyers so true healthcare reform will never happen. US doctors practice preventive medicine, not to prevent health issue but legal issues. The CBO says this plan will add to the deficient. BO continues his drivel with we are in a crisis and it must be passed now. Fool me once shame on you (Stimulus Plan), fool me twice shame on me (HC Plan). How many can he fleece this time? I’ll bet not as many!

What is it free spirit? Do you have something against the wealthy, or against those in opposition to Obama's plan?

Blah, blah, blah, more Republican bull$hit.

For all who cry 'socialism', may I remind you folks capitalism went on life support in 1929 and passed away a few years later. We just kid ourselves into believing we live under a capitalist system.

One case in point: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Senior Prescription Drug Program. Just try taking those programs away from seniors, who will say 'they earned it' even though on average seniors consume all their contributions (including compound interest) within a couple years after retirement. Thus the majority of seniors are socialists.

Keep ranting and telling ourselves we are capitalists, we might continue to believe.

Arthur - as long as I have the ability to open up a business, provide services for a profit, sell what I want for a profit, we live in a capitalist society. Today I still have that ability.

When the government starts taxing my efforts to where I can't afford it, thats when we are fully a socialist government. We have socialist programs, but today they don't override my ability to conduct commerce. That might not be the case in a couple of years if Obama gets his way. Do you see the difference?

The problem here is two fold:

The first is that healthcare simply cannot be about what party line you fall under. Stop letting politicians hide under political umbrellas, and address their individual words and ideas as stated. Stop name calling each other for party affiliations, and address the issues as they are, unless you cannot think for yourself. In that case, just don't post at all.

Second, I was a little perturbed to see the amount of money insurance companies can afford to spend on advertising/lobbying. Was no one else bothered by that? Someone above said insurance reform was a whole different topic. I totally agree. How has congress put healthcare reform above prioritizing insurance reform, when insurance and law suits are a problem every American faces, and a huge reason a lot of uninsured Americans choose to not opt into medical insurance. Forcing people to be apart of a broken system, taxing people's benefits already in the broken system, and guaranteeing profit to one of the biggest problems with the system does not equal a better system. Like the Iraq war, timing is all wrong, and priorities with this colossal bill seem misplaced. Right now our financial markets are boosted only by the promises of a better future by a government administration, not be new technology, and not by a huge consumer based spending turn around. We are not out of the storm. Implementing regulation to make sure we do not fall back into it, should be top priority.

After reading all these "PARTY LINERS BLOGS" everyone here just proved what I have been saying all along............"NEITHER PARTY KNOWS WHAT THE PHUCK THEY ARE DOING" BUT THEY SURE AS HELL KNOW HOW TO STEAL OUR MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep following the sheep hearders "LITTLE SHEEP"!!!!

letsdance, Iagree the republicans are a mess but I suspect since you only attacked one side of the partisan coin that you somehow believe that the other side is somehow above the same level of scrutiny. I hope you are not an enabler. At one point I believed that the democrats were far superior to the republicans (after my collegiate brainwashing) and then I encountered the democrats here in Illinois and discovered they fit your description beautifully. I then became a partisan hater and have watched the defenders of either party with horror. Someday I hope you look at the other guys with an open mind, then you will be able to say both instead of one and you might become a reformer rather than a follower.

That might not be the case in a couple of years if Obama gets his way. 1.55

Brianb what exactly has Obama done or is planing to do that will override your ability to conduct commerce?

The prescription drug plan you mention has come in under budget but don't let that get in the way of your agenda.

KM...

Right now our financial markets are boosted only by the promises of a better future by a government administration, not by new technology, and not by a huge consumer based spending turn around. We are not out of the storm.

Well...without new Technology, and without new consumer base... we continue down the yellow brick road with words from our leaders that are leaves falling off the tree as the economy spins completely out of control. San Bernardino county says unemployment has risen to 13.9%. Imagine... 14 out of every 100 people are on unemployment! And if we add in those who are really unemployed and have not filed for benefits...it's staggering! Cash only services are on the rise and there is no tax being claimed. so people are being forced to choose to either put food on the table or pay their taxes.

The governments... including all cities, counties, State and Fed should put spending on a freeze! They can't raise revenue because taxes are floundering in red ink (California just raised it 1%) and have caused people to just shut themselves down. And that includes an emotional and mental shut down because hope is being pulled out from under their feet!

There is talk about a tax for how often we use the highways. The spokesman for this idea began to speak about how "each individual will measure every time they jump in their car and will rule out any unnecessary trips"... thus saving money and keeping our polluting vehicles from damaging our atmosphere. This open discussion about polarizing citizens movements scares the hell out of me. It's like optioning to be caged up in your neighborhood cell.

It also is indicative of where the government policies are leading us. That is total control over the masses.

Instead of ideas about how to get this economy rolling, he's talking about how the government can get more revenue. I can't wait to see the government border checks being installed at the outskirts of every town and city. What really bothers me is that people don't see that it is going that direction and that we will all lose our individuality while being flocked together.

Democrat or Republican... if we can't see this as a possibility up the road, then we have truly laid down our thinking abilities in the midst of these puffed up non issues that are floated before us everyday. Health care is one of them. And it comes with a mandate.

It's our Freedom that is under attack. The freedom to choose. It is being funneled into "a choice must be made" from these options only.

"This isn't about me," Obama responded. "This isn't about politics. It is about a health care system that is breaking American families." I'm going broke paying for MY health care. If I have to pay for 3 or 4 families who are not working, not paying taxes, not legalized citizens, I will, and so will every other worker in America, go broke at a hugely faster pace. One which our paychecks will not keep up with.

I don't agree with the government getting involved in MY health care. For one thing they will not need this insurance / health care. They have no stake in it. Second: Look at the "restructuring" of the auto industry right now. That's a good little mess. Medicare? Yep, it's a mess, too. Every time the gov't tries to fix their kneejerk bills, it gets worse, not better.

I think doing away with health insurance is the ONLY way we will be able to control rising costs. You & I can't afford to pay for our healthcare out of pocket. We rely on insurance to help, or, if your lucky, pay for it all. If there was no insurance, doctors would have a hard time collecting what they charge for care. If they start going broke because their patients can't afford to pay, they will have to lower their charges and make what they can. Of course, malpractice insurance would have to go away, too, but it would if the doctors couldn't pay the premiums. Sounds a little crazy? Stop and think about it. How much do you pay for insurance, and when you file a claim, what happens? The rates go up for what you've been paying for all along. It's a racket that needs to be stopped, or at least controlled.

Give me an argument against doing away with health insurance. I'm all ears (eyes).

Over 40 years of this Congressional debate, and they still can't come up with a workable plan to LOWER the ACTUAL costs of HEALTH CARE, not just the cost of INSURANCE PREMIUMS. Premiums keep rising to cover the constantly increasing costs of the medical care. Of course the insurance companies also don't tell you that the premiums are raised to cover their advertising costs ($1.4M so far on this campaign alone, not to mention all of their regular ads) and their huge salaries to the top execs and kickbacks to legislators (state and federal), etc. Remember that part of the cost containment has to be dealt with on the state levels too, not just on the federal level. Insurance companies are state regulated, not just federal regulated. And every state has different regulations, which further add to the cost of doing business. Health care costs are a very complex issue that has many facets that need to be addressed by this reform attempt. So far, NEITHER PARTY, has actually addressed the President's guidelines of integrated computerize record keeping, cost containment, lower premiums with coverage for everyone.

Congress will continue to cowtow to the sources of their major campaign funds....insurance, pharmaceutical, and AMA lobbyists.

Free Spirit

Wow this is an easy one. He's taken over GM, a business. The government owns 51% of GM stock. He's taken over several large banks. He wants to take over healthcare and the medical profession. This is for starters. Once government healthcare takes effect, he will be able to control the individual.

Obama has taken us on a slippery slope towards total government control one piece at a time towards that end. When cap and tax passes, the largest tax increase in the history of the country, it will effect everyone. The taxation will be placed in coffers for whom? Has anyone even asked this question?

How many other presidents have set up a czar system? The czars report to nobody but Obama. They are outside of congressional approval and work directly for the president. Last count, there were 38 of them. Each draws a huge salary and command a staff of people below them. Is this Constitutional?

Another indicator of who Obama is and what he wants, is his associations. He coddles socialist dictators like Hugo Chavez, and Daniel Ortega. Obama is a student of Saul Alinski and so far, he's playing exactly by the book.

My business is going to be effected by Obama's plan. When government costs become so burdensome, I will have to shut down. Cap and tax and forcing me to provide healthcare for each employee will effectively remove the profit factor from my business.

You never did answer my earlier question in post 1.52

Brianb

Do I have something against all wealthy people?

Hell no. There are many who are proud, patriotic Americans. But you and I both know there are many who will milk the system for all it's worth and who care nothing about their employees, their working conditions, salaries, benefits, etc.

Moderation, a middle road approach is what is needed and is what our President seeks.

Oh, I know you will say he is the most liberal President in history and that he seeks to move us toward socialism. That's BS and you know it. He has bent over backwards to seek bipartisan solutions - but you folks won't give a millimeter.

Your extremism is very frustrating. I don't have a clue what our future is, but I do know I'm sick of the Republican Party - the party that supports and defends inept, irresponsible, negative, deceitful, greedy, heartless, hypocritical government while ruthlessly attacking anyone who seeks change for the better.

Have you no shame?

What do you expect from the party that demonizes educated people as "elitist". What a joke. Doing NOTHING isn't an option but the repubs don't have brains and therefore can't offer a solution, only tear other peoples' down. Stick to your old tired party slogans and don't offer an ideas, what a great party.

But Brian...

Are you one of those that believes in profit? Well, cut your margins! If your in retail, instead of a 100% mark up... make it 50%! That way you can sell more! Oh... the buyers ability has been cut by 50%? So... cut your mark-up to 25%. That will bring them in in droves and you will clean up. Oh... Wal-Mart buys the same item for one-third what you pay?

Just file bankruptcy and get it over with!

free Spirit There is just no doubt that Obama is a Communist! Open your eyes!

What do you not understand about the fact that this will bankrupt the Country!!

DWF,

What do you (personally) consider frivolous when it comes to healthcare oriented lawsuits?

I hope the President doesn't think everyone questioning his policies is a Republican.There is no way such an orgy of spending and bad policies (Democrats approving offshore drilling only to rescind it once elected is the one that really burns me up) can't be subjected to scrutiny.It's not a matter of party,it's a question of who's going to pick up the tab for this bender?

Free Spirit...

Can you see that you are not? And that government intrusion is eroding your ability to be?

Moderation, a middle road approach is what is needed and is what our President seeks.

Free_Spirit1184, since when is the perpetual crutch of another social program "a middle road approach"? Since when is disproportionately penalizing the "have's" for the plight of the "have not's" "a middle road approach"? Since when are anti-business initiatives "a middle road approach"?

Wonder why all the doctors, nurses, other healthcare providers are on board with this plan, because there are no cost, and therefore no profit, reducing measures, merely more sources of paying for medical care. Ever wonder why insurance companies are on board with the plan, but not with the public option, because that's millions more clients for, you guessed it, more money. Don't act like the Democrats are some big-hearted, caring people, they're getting their pockets lined as much as, if not more, than anyone. Ever consider why B.O. had the largest fund-raising campaign in election history? I'll give you a hint and it's not because of the absent minded, easily manipulated fools like yourself who voted for him and continue to support him and his ridiculous ideas like he would like us all to believe. He may not be the most liberal President in history but he's trying his a$$ off to be and I'd say he's in the top 5.

But while we're on the subject of what makes us sick, I'm sick of all the Kool-Aid drinking, know nothing, blinders on, B.O. does no wrong, left-winged liberals acting like the United States is a welfare state where everything is deserved and everyone is entitled to whatever they want and they'll take from those who earned it in order to give to those who never did anything to help themselves as a way of buying votes and preying on the uneducated, becaused they'd have to be to believe half the garbage coming out of the Democratic party these days, less fortunate citizens of this country who only know they're getting free stuff and have no idea the consequences of such theft of the working Americans and employers of those working Americans.

Frivolous lawsuits? Okay, no problem.

How about the illegal alien that was brought to a Phoenix hospital ER by police, he shot at police after assaulting a woman and her child in a shopping mall parking lot, the police subdued him with pepper spray and broke his arm while he resisted. while being treated for his injuries the suspect jumped out a window, fell 3 stories to the ground and broke both legs, he is suing the hospital for not having bars on the windows to prevent such a thing.

Lawyers attempted suing an LA County Hospital for not providing immediate treatment to a homeless woman, she died of a heart attack while waiting. The hospital was unable to provide treatment because the woman was hiding in a janitorial supply closet, she was discovered 45 minutes after being dropped off by a bus driver who found her asleep on the bus.

Both cases were tossed out, but not until both hospitals spent thousands preparing for the summary hearing.

The same sort of crap goes on over cigarettes. $80 million to the family of a man who died of lung cancer, cause he didn't know smoking could lead to cancer, C'mon, what a load of crap!

Trial lawyers contribute huge amounts to Democrats, there'll be no Tort reform for that reason.

I am all for a fix for the broken health care system. But I am not for the current plan as written that Mr. obama is trying to push through. I have read the 1018 pages and it scares the heck out of me.

I read this because of what I thought was just haters saying that private insurance would be illegal once the government plan was passed. I was horrified when on page 16-17 I found it was true that I could keep my private insurance as long as we did not lose our current coverage.

Everyone please read this bill..it is long it is boring but you will have your answer if you want this pushed through. I found it to download on the ways and means site.

I vote no for me and my family. I vote no to the three plan choices ( ) and the $5000. individual $10000. per family deductible!!! You read that right, this was around page 200.

Now I know there are hard core Dem's and hard core Re-pubs out there but can any of you as human beings as Americans say you want that deductible!!!

Tort reform is one item on the list of those that need to be addressed before true health care reform can happen.Will it be? I'm not holding my breath.It's not politically correct (or expediant; never know what PAC or lobbyist might get ticked off if you actually discuss the real issues of a subject).

ROFL - thanks Gus! One thing I do enjoy is sarcastic solutions! Gotta run - seeing my atty today to file for BR. LOL

Common Sense - What's being demonized is elitists that think emotionalism is the answer to everyday problems. Common sense has eluded the left and have created a group of whimps that want to drink tea and hand the enemies of this country a daisy.

You call me an extremist. Wow. If what I believe is extreme, then this society has gone further to the left than I thought. At least with people like you anyway. I'm all for balance. What we have in government is a system WAY OUT of balance. When one party rules, there is no balance at all. How am I extreme when there is absolutely no effective opposition to the things the left wants to do? I do blame the republicans for losing all power. They stopped being conservatives and started capitulating with the left and they lost not only my support but a whole lot of other peoples. If you think I am republican you have another thought coming. You and I actually agree the Republican party stinks... but I don't think our thoughts run along the same lines.

Obama isn't seeking a middle of the road solution to anything. Haven't you started noticing that it's his way or the highway? Over the course of the last 2-3 weeks, his true colors are starting to emerge. He demands this.. wants that... everything a good dictator is all about. Ramrodding legislation through congress without even being able to read it. let alone digest it. How is that middle of the road?

Come on Common Sense... you have to be a little brighter than just an Obama worshipper. You seem intelligent. Your ideas are liberal.. but even you can see the writing on the wall about this dictator of a president we have.

It is a true showing of Mr. Obama's "honesty" that he keeps saying that "the American people are behind" his health care effort when polling data shows that is clearly NOT the case. Mr. Obama obviously believes that Americans are idiots who blindly listen to and believe whatever comes out of his mouth. Sadly, in many cases that is true.

However, the polling data that is show daily CLEARLY shows that Americans are reacting very cautiously to this health care dog & pony show. They are NOT "behind" him on this and rightfully so.

There is no worse character flaw in a politician than being a plain old "liar".

The idea that a government option will somehow take health care decisions away from doctors and patients is a transparent fear tactic that make very little sense. At our clinic, we are well-positioned to see the difference between private and public (e.g. Medicare, Medicaid) insurance. Private insurers tend to have higher copays on medications, are even more draconian in terms of their managed care approach (i.e. someone making decisions about whether a medication or treatment is approved), and have far greater overhead (in other words, are more inefficient). Unlike public plans, private insurers routinely reject patients for pre-existing medical conditions and refuse to pay for some treatments associated with life-threatening illnesses. They aren't accountable to anyone, with the exception of a fairly toothless oversight agency. Skyrocketing costs associated, in part, with the costs of treating uninsured people are simply passed by providers, hospitals, etc. back to the insured patients anyway. So, in many ways, you're already footing the bill for the uninsured and underinsured. And the present healthcare system is dangerous even for people who are already covered, because in the absence of preventative screenings and adequate medical care for 50 million people, diseases and sicknesses thrive and pose a health risk even to people who already have insurance. The idea that we would pay such an enormous amount of money to fend off a terrorist attack that might- at worst- kill a few thousand people when preventable diseases kill far more than that every year is strange logic. It's like building a moat and barbed wire around your house only to die of the flu.

With that said, the current plan under consideration is inadequate and costly. They need to stop rushing and put together something a little bit better. But the present system- 50 million uninsured, the highest costs in the world and yet a ranking near the bottom on health indexes among industrialized nations (including those "socialist ones" in Europe- which despite their costs and hassles produce far better outcomes), and an infant mortality rate around 115th in the world (lower than many Third World nations)- that system is intolerable. The only people it seems to benefit are private insurers.

There are many very simple truths that so many want to ignore for some reason. Healthcare in America is the best in the world, that's a fact. The 'healthcare' plans are not about health but about additional government control. The real reason for increased medical costs are lawsuits and tort lawyers, not doctors and hospitals. None of the 'reform' proposals cover all Americans. A large number of those not insured are here illegally and many others could afford insurance but choose not to purchase it. Everyone is treated whether they have health insurance or not. Healthcare is not a 'right' nor is it a Constitutional task for the government. The biggest truth that is covered over time and time again is that 'free healthcare' will cost trillions of dollars, taking away the quality of life from our children that was given to us! Supporting this travesty of increased un-Constitutional government control is a sign of just how selfish and selfcentered a large group of people in America have become.

What does MSNBC do, let all the left wingnuts on here before a voice of reason is allowed to write?  Obama's ratings are falling like a lead zeppelin, and still the radical socialist is trying to strike fear into the people's hearts so they will follow him down.

 "This isn't about me," Obama responded. "This isn't about politics. It is about a health care system that is breaking American families."  It's about him... He is an egomaniac.  It's also about politics.  Obama wants BIG government to control our lives.  He wants government to be the answer to everything.  What you buy, where you buy it, health care, insurance, where you live, what you drive, how you think, what you eat, what you earn, how much energy you can use, if you can own a gun... and on and on and on.

"Unless we act, and act now, none of this will change," he said.... LOL, the same ole ploy that worked the first couple of times for him...  Don't read this, just pass it, it will be ok... and if it does not pass now, the the boogie man will get you.  Thank goodness more and more people are wising up.  Only the most liberal, out of touch, lunatics would support Obama's National Health Care plan.  It would totally destroy our economy.   National Health Care and Cap and Trade MUST be defeated if our economy is to ever survive.  Obama, Pelosi, Peid, Franks, Dodd, all the liberal crackpots have GOT TO GO!!!  And we should vote out ANY congress man or woman who votes for it.  Hurry up 2010 so we can start getting our country back.  Obama is a one term president for sure.  Hurry up 2012 and throw the bum out!!!

a health care system that is currently breaking American families?  You bet, and why? in large part because of gov't interference.  Gov't that won't pay the cost of medicare and medicaid which are going bust and is being subsidized by the rest of us through higher health care costs.  Gov't that won't do anything about tort reform so doctors are forced to do uneccesary tests to cover their rears from being sued, gov't that in many states forces ins co's to cover everything with mandates.  Why the hell should I have to pay for maternity care????  I am a guy!!!!!  But it is mandated coverage in my state!!!!!!!  Get gov't the hell out of the medical buisness, and you would see costs drop by 30%  Start paying cash and get rid of ins and you will see it drop by another 20-30%

It is gov't that won't let me right off my health care costs, it is gov't that is looking to get rid of the medical savings accounts.  The dems are intentionally loading up the system to fail to force socialist medicine down our throats.  Why???  Plain and simple  POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has nothing to do with compasssion or fairness, it is about raw POWER!!!!!!!!!!

After WWII, the UK treated themselves to free healthcare for all its citizens as a sort of compensation for all the hell they'd endured. Today, even their most conservatives view their system as a national treasure.

So how did they pay for it?... by giving up their empire (for the most part).

If we want to cover all Americans without taxing ourselves to death, giving up our empire (again, for the most part) is a reasonable way to do it.

I realize the party of the paranoid balks at this idea because not stomping around on everyone elses soil somehow makes us "less safe" in their eyes (nevermind the fact that we're there in the first place is what's pissing them off so much), but honestly, if we pretty much left other people alone and stopped trying to always be the world's traffic cop, we'd find that we could have plenty of money to take care of our own.

Neither party has our best interests at heart. They have both spent like drunken sailors and show NO sign of changing there self serving, politics as usual, ways. Even when faced with a financial crisis of the likes we have never seen before. When ones find themselves in a deep hole, the prudent stop digging! Politicians are addicts, addicted to pork and big business money. If there mouth is moving you can bet they are lying. With a 12% approval rating last election, we had an opportunity to vote them all out of office last election but 96% were reelected. The "my congressman is ok, it's all the others that are the problem" syndrome was, as always, in play. These politicians need to loose there job! They are responsible for the state of this country. The American people have gotten the Government that they deserve. Next election, vote against all incumbents, or look in the mirror to see the real problem. The only ones that benefits from Americans being divided are the politicians. We are screwed.

Party of no? Look at your party it the party of bankrupting this nation Obama sickens me all lies I agree both party's but you can't hold a candle to the democraps party on spending

A little sand and glass with the Vaseline please!

Truth? Tell the Truth? Oh brother, you Democrats are such a laugh. How about 20% payback on TARP funds and 80% forgiven to financeial instutional and the total cost to taxpayers $24Trillion!

Get real, Obama is trying to turn this country into a Socialist Government with himself as Dictator and you are so gullible that you think it will be great. So after everyone is on government assistance and the government knocks on your door and say you WILL DO THIS JOB or ,as in Russia, WE WILL SEND YOU TO SIBERIA to freeze your rear off and die or shoot you. How about when they take your kids and test them for their best aptitude and say your child will now go to the Socialist run school in......(halfway across the country) and you can't stop them. This is the way a Socialist Government works and they brainwash you with "change" or "hope"(Hitler's terms by the way) and then they give you slavery and poverty while the government and higher up live in the lap of luxury. Just look at N Korea and picture it right here in the US with massive government regulations and taxation. Does it start to dawn on you that this Health care is another step in that direction? It certain should and while you're at it if socialized medicine is so great why is it that the Canadians come to this country for healthcare instead of waiting 6 months for an operation?

How many people in this country do you think have things in their medical care records that they want kept totally private? Such as, an abortion that they don't want eveyone to know about? How would you like your health care records gone through and laughed about by a bunch of government employees? Or put on a computer someone can hack and tell all about? Or a secretary somewhere telling you you don't need medical care for some condition and are denied that being paid for. The government refused to pay an ambulance bill for my mother to get to the hospital for emergency care when she couldn't walk and was in a nursing home! Medicare refused to pay it. We were told we should have hired someone else to take her. So I already know how they can act and refuse simple necessary care.

It's not Republican critics that Obama needs to worry about. They haven't the numbers to prevent this catastrophe. His problems lie within the Democratic party. Obama and members of Congress have top-of-the-line health care at taxpayer expense. I favor any plan that eliminates their coverage and mandates that they receive the very same benefits they want to impose on the rest of us.

It's about power to the government.

"Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty."

Ronald Reagan

We can never forget this!

Come on what world do you live, look at all the programs run by the govenment all start out small then go out of sight. Today tax the rich, tommow tax the middle class to pay for it. How about getting the politicians to op out of their plan and be subjected to what they are trying to put on us? Some time NO is the best way to go.

KM-956320:

Second, I was a little perturbed to see the amount of money insurance companies can afford to spend on advertising/lobbying. Was no one else bothered by that?

You're perturbed by profitable insurance companies spending $1.4 Million? How much do you think BO/Pelosi/Reid have spent on their media blitz touting why we need it now? You're not perturbed by the current totally out of control spendorama? You're not perturbed by a President who announced before the stimulus that unless it was done immediately that more would suffer? You're not perturbed the President and his cronies want to commit $1.5 trillion to something without thinking it through, listening to objections, discussing alternatives, considering how to control expenses incurred by the insurance companies, etc?

I'd be perturbed if I was a shareholder of an insurance company and they didn't spend $1.4 million trying to educate the blinkered nod alongs who believe everything the President spouts off about.

And I'm a little perturbed that BO constantly avoids answering the question whether he will be the first to sign up for the newly created Government Insurance Plan.

The idiots in Congress won't touch tort reform... any one know the answer to why? I'll tell ya why...

THEY ARE ALL ATTORNEYS!

We need to elect politicians that are normal people. Business people, smart, savvy people that understand the role of government. Not this bunch of leeches we have in there now. Career politicians that have lived long enough on our dime. They need to be tossed out. Then we need to elect officials that will repeal the lifetime pensions for congressional members. The political system needs to be reset back to zero or will will lose our country.

Get the message out. Examine those that want to hold office. Check their records.. make RESPONSIBLE choices, not political choices. Time to wake up America before it's too late. This can be fixed!

This guy just does not see it,,, the big picture....... The picture of 3/4 of this nations working class screaming "WE DON'T WANT GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE"!!!

Maybe if EVERYONE faxed him EVERYday from his home page (just google "fax president Obamma") IT'S FREE!!. I'm going to send him at least one a day....AT LEAST 1 A DAY! Maybe if we smoke his server he'll start to listen to us.

.

EVERY DAY,,,, FAX,, FAX,,, FAX.

The health insurance industry was supposed to contain costs with managed care. Instead,

- Premiums rose four times faster than wages between 2000 and 2006 (Kaiser Family Foundation).

- Quality of coverage deteriorates with people spending more on premiums and copays and getting less care (Consumer Reports)

- Yet their profits rose 170% between 2003 and 2007. (Snapshot of the Health Insurance Industry in the United States, 2008, nwfco.org).

- European and Canadian cities, all with socialized medicine, dominate the top of the global list for quality of life. United States cities continue to slip in the rankings, and the highest one is rated at 43 (Mercer Quality of Life).

- The WHO stopped ratings in 2000, but when they did, the US ranked 37, behind so called 3rd world countries like Costa Rico and Morocco in quality health care indicators.

They provide not even one minute of health care, but suck up hundreds of billions in health care resources.

They make billing and claims so complicated it is a Rube Goldberg machine, making it easy for them to commit fraud, and costing us even more money in inefficiencies.

They delay payments to doctors in order to increase their profits, which is beginning to drive many private practices out of business.

They spend millions on lobbyists and they install their shills as representatives in Congress, literally purchasing our voices and our rightful representation away from us.

They insure only the young and healthy, the group they can make their billions from, saddling taxpayers with the care for the most vulnerable - the elderly, children who are poor, and the chronically ill.

The health insurance industry has crippled our country, turning it into the "has-been" story of the century.

michaellittle:

You obviously are not informed. You might want to take a real look at what is going on in the UK economically and demographically before you think we should go down their socialist road. The UK is on the brink of economic collapse - and we will be too if the Tyrant we now have in office gets his way!

I guess if you are okay with sacrificing the lives of your loved one's because they have a later stage cancer, or they are what the government views as "old" and not really a viable, contributing citizen, and they are longer worth the government dole - then more power to you! But their plan sucks, unless of course you go through life without any health issue - but the odds aren't in your favor.

Better yet, instead of sacrificing your loved ones, I hope it's you that is sacrificed for your views - nobody else should have to pay for them!!

Sorry bud, socialism is not my idea of America! You want health insurance, get a job or buy it.

I see the Liar-In-Chief was out spewing his socialist propaganda again. F*ck this Affirmative-Action hire. He is only out to cripple and destroy this country.

Cactis-1192949, btco, and all the others that think they are owed in life:

Sorry, you aren't owed health care. A "right"? How pathetic! Just what in life do people like you think you are NOT owed? You want health care? You have many options; 1) get a job that offers it; 2) give up the luxuries in your life (like the internet service you are using), cell phone, satellite/cable, smoking, drinking, going out to eat, buying more crap that you don't need - and buy it yourself; 3) sign up for Medicaid if you qualify. Obviously, you think you are entitled to someone else taking care of you - but you are not!

Set your priorities and take care of yourself instead of just being another useless, non-contributing person in our society!

And by the way - insurance companies are entitled to make a profit - that's why they are in business. People don't start business's to give you handouts! Does Starbucks give you free coffee? Does the grocery store give you free food? Do the utility companies give you free utilities? Did the car company give you a free car? Did your car and/or homeowners insurance company give you free insurance coverage? Do the clothing retailers give you free clothes and shoes? You want something in life?? Make it happen for yourself - for once!!

JB-784265, you are almost correct. Thanks to financing by US taxpayers, the United States has the best medical schools, the best research facilities, and the best hospitals in the world. This is the health care system that the globe's wealthiest people use, along with a relative handful of Americans. The vast majority of Americans can only access mediocre care, or no care at all.

So while you are all proud of and bragging about how we have the best care in the world, be sure you understand that it is not for you or for your neighbors - it is for the richest people in the world, and it is for the handful of Americans who have the best health insurance plus plenty of disposable income to pay for what is not covered.

Tell the truth you ask, when Mr Obama, aka "lair liar pants on fire" is not telling us the truth about this piece of crap bill? The real truth is: Veterans loose their free health care with this bill, 13 million illegal aliensin this country get free health care (they sure don't pay any taxes on income either do they ), abortions will be mandated, paid for by federal dollars, if a doctor refuses to do the procedure they may loose their license, or be fined, no free to choose your own doctors or plans after the first choiceand or if your plans changes in any way, you re off your plan and put into a random federally assigned plan. Just for starters read pages 16 and 17, of the 1000+ plus page bill full of pork and non-health spending I might add. Finally where the hell are our Congressmen, Federal workers, federal judges, presidents on this? They are EXEMPT. They keep their own PRIVATE, free plans. This bill is crap, and ANY politician that tells you it is, is a LIAR. Governors all over the country are now saying NO to this bill. That should tell you something about it. Read the bill folks, this package is NOT freeand will cost billions more in taxes, not to mention if you re over 45, your benefits drastically change, or disappear all together.

Hopeful American, your post is just a sad commentary at how little Americans are willing to settle for, for themselves and for others.

You think the health crisis does not affect you? Think about it the next time you are in a hospital. Understand that infections in hospitals are on the rise because they have had to cut back on cleaning crews, on training and on supervision. That is not a nurse you are talking to, it is a personal care aide with 8 weeks of training.

The staff, especially the really skilled staff who cost money has been cutback, because hospitals can't afford them, so everything takes longer to accomplish, and the quality is less. The emergency room is jammed with people who are sick and can't access primary care. The machinery is old and getting older, because hospitals can't afford new equipment. Your stay is shorter because they can't afford to keep you in the bed.

The deterioration in the quality of life in this country because of limited or no access to care that is already slipping into the substandard category will not leave you untouched.

Right on! The Republicans never have answers-----only criiticisms and unanswerable questions. If the Repugnicants would have retained the White House, and Congress, we wouldn't even be discussing health-care reform (except some trumped-up privitization plans that poor people still couldn't afford). Enough of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. If you want to call fairness and compassion socialism , then let's have a good dose of it.

HAVE ANY OF YOU READ THIS PIECE OF TRASH?!?!?!?!?

This is going to tax the hell out of the elderly, tax the hell out of all of us.....NO ONE SHOULD BE FOR THIS BILL!

Read this people, read this nonsense, this is the worst thing that could ever be done to us.

Time to wake up and smell what this guy is shoveling.....this isn't nationalized health care this is the raping of the American tax payer.

Please don't comment or reply to this unless you've actually read this nonsense, it's criminal, absolutely criminal. And if you didn't read it shame on you for posting comments on this based on this lame article or some misguided party loyalty (here's a secret, there's no difference between the two parties they're both filled with crooks that have one priority, to beat the other party regardless of the outcome or resulting chaos).

I never thought it possible but in less than a year, Obama's proved that he's an ever bigger moron and crook than the last moron we had in office.

VOTE THEM ALL OUT!

I am a member of AARP, and I was reading their on-line bulletin this afternoon.

I have taken the liberty to copy and paste information posted on AARP's website.

I agree that our healthcare system needs revamping, but also thought you would like to be informed on the legislation that absolutely HAS to be rushed through by August.

These are the FACTS and subject to no bias on my part.

By The Associated Press

Jul. 15, 2009 (AP Online delivered by Newstex) -- Details on the health care overhaul bill introduced Tuesday by Democrats in the House:

WHO'S COVERED:

Around 94 percent of non-elderly residents (those not covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65) would be covered -- compared with 81 percent today. Nearly half of the 17 million non-elderly residents who remain uninsured would be illegal immigrants.

COST:

About $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

HOW IT'S PAID FOR:

Revenue-raisers include: $544 billion from a new income tax surcharge on single people making $280,000 a year and households making $350,000 and above; $37 billion in other tax adjustments. About $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. About $200 billion from penalties paid by individuals and employers who don't obtain coverage.

REQUIREMENTS FOR INDIVIDUALS:

Individuals must have insurance, enforced through tax penalty with hardship waivers. The penalty is 2.5 percent of income.

REQUIREMENTS FOR EMPLOYERS:

Employers must provide insurance to their employees or pay a penalty of 8 percent of payroll. Companies with payroll under $250,000 annually are exempt.

SUBSIDIES:

Individuals and families with annual income up to 400 percent of poverty level ($88,000 for a family of four) would get sliding-scale subsidies to help them buy coverage. The subsidies would begin in 2013.

HOW YOU CHOOSE YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE:

Through a new Health Insurance Exchange open to individuals and, initially, small employers; it could be expanded to large employers over time. States could opt to operate their own exchanges in place of the national exchange if they follow federal rules.

BENEFIT PACKAGE:

A committee would recommend an "essential benefits package" including preventive services, mental health services, oral heath and vision for children; out-of pocket costs would be capped. The new benefit package would be the basic benefit package offered in the exchange and over time would become the minimum quality standard for employer plans. Insurers wouldn't be able to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions.

GOVERNMENT-RUN PLAN:

A new public plan available through the insurance exchanges would be set up and run by the secretary of Health and Human Services. On average it would pay Medicare rates plus 5 percent to doctors.

CHANGES TO MEDICAID:

The federal-state insurance program for the poor would be expanded starting in 2013 to cover all non-elderly individuals with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level ($14,404).

Sources: AP research; Congressional Budget Office; House Ways and Means Committee.

Newstex ID: AP-0001-36480790

JustaThought - BS! A lot of the problems in hospitals is because of illegal aliens sucking up on the free medical care that this country does provide. This is an entirely different problem facing the country but it's something the liberals in Washington support. Watch and see when the new legislation comes out in the form of The Immigration Reform Act.

I have excellent insurance at very affordable rates. All you crybaby liberals are simply too lazy to go out and find it. It does take some research, comparing and the ability to be able to write a check. There are limitations to pre-existing conditions, most being a waiting period but even pre-existing conditions will be covered. I have good co-pays and affordable drugs....

Why you want the government to get involved in health care is beyond reason! Why you liberals want government control is so completely insane I feel like wrapping my head with duct tape to keep it from exploding. What do you think the government can do for you that you can't do for yourselves? Explain this to me!

The majority of Americans DO NOT want government controlled health care or government involvement with health insurance. Obama is spreading his take over the country routine with this.... forcing it down our throats against our wills.

The hell with voting them out. Run them out with your pitch forks and torches. Voting takes too long and the losers and deadbeats will still vote for these scumbags.

btco there is a plan and here it is just for you;

In its major features, the Republican bill, dubbed The Patients' Choice Act of 2009, would:

• Create state health insurance exchanges to allow Americans to compare different private market health insurance policies
• Guarantee Americans the same standard health benefits and choices as members of Congress now enjoy
• Ensure that no individual would be turned down by a participating
  exchange insurers based on age or health
• Create a non-profit, independent board to risk adjust among participating insurance companies to penalize companies that "cherry pick" health patients and reward insurers that encourage prevention/wellness and cover patients with pre‐-existing conditions
• Gives states the ability to band together in regional pooling arrangements, as well as risk pools, reinsurance markets, or risk adjustment mechanisms to cover those deemed uninsurable.

You have this tendency to speak some times without facts. read the news today the real cost of TARP, the delay in presenting the budget (till after this vote) If you can not see the writing on the wall your blind. Yes, we need Health care reform but not this mess that is being rammed through, by the way did you read the Bill that is in THOMAS that is the working version. Read it first and then rant.

Personally I don't know whether or not this healthcare plan will work and for those of you that have made a decision about whether or not this is a good idea, what is your basis for that conclusion? I have questions and cannot get answers, I have emailed both my Senator and Representative, but neither gave me anything more than the form letter response.

Who knows how many are actually uninsured but want health coverage, the numbers are inflated, but even if we work with the inflated numbers, then at least 70% of the population have coverage. How is this plan going to improve healthcare for those 70%? We have been told that the government will not get between us and our doctors, but how can the have any impact on healthcare one way or the other without at least some input?????

We have been told that this plan will cut costs. How exactly will this plan cut healthcare costs? Have those of you that have insurance ever seen how much the insurance company pays your medical providers? If anything, I believe that doctors should get more. Regardless, if the claim is that this plan will cut costs, then they should be able to explain how.

Finally, we are told that private options will continue to exist and that if you like what you have now you can keep it. I am skeptical, all private options must make a profit in order for them to continue to exist, but a public option does not have to make a profit. So already, the private options are disadvantaged because they need to charge a little more in order to make a profit. Eventually, won't the public option dominate? Additionally, what if our employers decide that the cost is less to not provide insurance and force employees to take the public option. How is the government going to guarantee us that will not occur???

All I hear is the high level claims without any reasoning to back up those claims. As citizens we should demand explanations. Improving healthcare is certainly a noble goal, but if we are to spend $1 trillion on this then we should be confident that it will work.

It's not what Obama is saying that disturbs me. It is what he is not saying. For instance he is not saying if his health care system will be closed with politicians making the medical decisions or open where the patient and doctor decide the best course of care for the patient. He is not saying where he expects to get this money except taxing the couples making more than 1 million dollars and individuals making more than $500 thousand. By this very message he is telling Americans to not try to better themselves because the federal government will just tax them more. What will happen when we don't have so many rich people to tax? He keeps jumping back and forth on his health benefit tax, which I personally believe will be a disaster, unless of course, his goal is to destroy private health care. I mean what employer or private person is going to pay for health insurance when they can get it for free???? The left side of his mouth says he is trying to "reform" health care. The right side of his mouth says his "reform" will destroy private industry, cost thousands of people currently working for private health care companies their jobs and bankrupt America in the process.

But then what does Obama and his elite group of friends care? They are all financially secure and probably have their money safely stashed somewhere out of the country and are already getting the best health care our money can buy.

Viet Vet - you gotta be kidding me. Does anyone else see the lie in this:

WHO'S COVERED:

Around 94 percent of non-elderly residents (those not covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65) would be covered -- compared with 81 percent today. Nearly half of the 17 million non-elderly residents who remain uninsured would be illegal immigrants.

COST:

About $1.5 trillion over 10 years.

It's staring at you!

It's always the bottom line. The total healthcare costs for 2007 was $2.7 trillion dollars. This is saying that the cost will be $150 Billion per year. How come it seems the government always underestimates their figures? Because they are trying to sell a bill of goods. It's a lie! A complete sham.

JustAThought08

You keep sipping on the Obama Kool-Aid. People from socialized countries come here for health care because that can't get it Canada or Europe. They can't get MRI's, CT Scans, knee replacements, cancer treatment, or anything that their government can put off and send them home with pain medication for.

And I don't know what area of the country you live in, but I have received very good care from my local hospitals.

The deterioration in the quality of life in this country is totally attributable to the socialization of a lot of welfare and social programs - and to the mindset of too many people that someone else should be responsible for them - even though they are quite capable of doing for themselves!

The health insurance industry was supposed to contain costs with managed care. Instead,

- Premiums rose four times faster than wages between 2000 and 2006 (Kaiser Family Foundation).

- Quality of coverage deteriorates with people spending more on premiums and copays and getting less care (Consumer Reports)

- Yet their profits rose 170% between 2003 and 2007. (Snapshot of the Health Insurance Industry in the United States, 2008, nwfco.org).

- European and Canadian cities, all with socialized medicine, dominate the top of the global list for quality of life. United States cities continue to slip in the rankings, and the highest one is rated at 43 (Mercer Quality of Life).

- The WHO stopped ratings in 2000, but when they did, the US ranked 37, behind so called 3rd world countries like Costa Rico and Morocco in quality health care indicators.

They provide not even one minute of health care, but suck up hundreds of billions in health care resources.

They make billing and claims so complicated it is a Rube Goldberg machine, making it easy for them to commit fraud, and costing us even more money in inefficiencies.

They delay payments to doctors in order to increase their profits, which is beginning to drive many private practices out of business.

They spend millions on lobbyists and they install their shills as representatives in Congress, literally purchasing our voices and our rightful representation away from us.

They insure only the young and healthy, the group they can make their billions from, saddling taxpayers with the care for the most vulnerable - the elderly, children who are poor, and the chronically ill.

The health insurance industry has crippled our country, turning it into the "has-been" story of the century.

You're right to an extent, but insurance companies are paying out sums far higher than what the very same doctors receive from medicare/medicaid provided care for the same purpose.

You cannot solely view the insurance companies as the villains. Health providers as in doctors' offices, hospitals, pharmaceuticals are equally to blame. Costs paid for by insurance companies are already subsidizing the "uninsured". Unless the expenses incurred at the health provider level are curtailed, those carrying insurance will continue to bear an unfair portion of the burden.

My wife until a short while ago was a VP in administration for a "non profit hospital". I have to admit I was taken aback when I saw the size of her bonus after she first joined. I am not talking a few thousand. Her bonus was 6 figures and many in the corporate end of the hospital saw larger than that. This wasn't a "one-off" occasion. This was the norm.

People villify executives of public companies making millions yet appear to be perfectly OK with endorsing that kind of remuneration for hospital staff and I'm not talking doctors and nurses.

You are wrong on one aspect, an insurance company providing group coverage through an employer can NOT adversely select or deny to provide coverage for an older person. If they provide group coverage, it is there for all, young or old.

People complain about the "average cost" of insurance, I wonder what the real statistics are for the "average cost" of medicare/medicaid provided insurance. I'd suspect per capita even with the lower reimbursement provisions it is still not much cheaper (if at all) than conventional insurance. And if you remove those who are currently subsidizing the health providers cost by removing that, then obviously government insurance will increase proportionately.

Republicans aren't saying that reform isn't needed. They are saying there is a responsible way about it and there is a RECKLESS way to go about it. The public polls agree with the Republicans. This is the only reason Obama has softened is threatening stance. He found out the public is beginning to wake up...

'Ole Harry Truman was right! He said this would come back and bite us. Back in 1946 he, of all people, as you can remember "the buck stops here", said it would be better to bite the bullet now utilizing a national plan of health care, than try and reel it in to be fair in the future.

November 19th, 1945:

The most controversial aspect of the plan was the proposed national health insurance plan. In the November 19th address, President Truman called for the creation of a national health insurance fund, to be run by the federal government. This fund would be open to all Americans, but would remain optional. Participants would pay monthly fees into the plan, which would cover the cost of any and all medical expenses that arose in a time of need. The government would pay for the cost of services rendered by any doctor who chose to join the program. In addition, the insurance plan would give a cash balance to the policy holder to replace wages lost due to illness or injury.

Guess it's coming to roost, hey? Truman thought that health care was not an industry that was dictated by competition that brought out the best in a capitalistic system. Instead, it was the reverse, health care abandoned the most in need and profited on the majority for the benefit of the very few at the top in power or income. For majority of people ir really was a carrot to either keep them working at dead end jobs or entice them to not strike out on their own.

Just remember, health care is a need, not a choice....unfortunately it is now a choice between slow death or quick death. Slow in that at a projected 18% of the GNP means that a family should be expected to pay 18% of their income on it too, along with a national average of 26% for a roof over your head, and 15% for food, equates to 59% of a families average gross income. Add property taxes, sales taxes, and income taxes, that should put the average American family only 4% in debt at the end of the year. By taking the profit out of our "middleman" health care system by going to a "national" health care system our total expenditure is projected to be around 11% of GNP or our "average" family will have an additional 3% of their income for discretionary spending...our economy might just rebound a little.

Brianb-999431

What our government does sometimes is pretty shocking.

If EVERYONEwould quit playing this stupid "party politics" and at least try to independently get the facts on the issues instead of calling names and casting blame, we would be a better nation.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY and WE are ALL AMERICANS. Remember, the world is watching us.

...and this is all about Obama - amazing he would even say it wasn't about him... its all about his ego and desire for a legacy...

Annette, post 1.74, since you've read the bill, could you comment on which, if any of the suggestions below are addressed in that bill? Your report of the deductibles is disturbing because it would mean millions would continue to be priced out of health care - which is not what we were led to believe this bill would do. Thanks if you respond.

Any public option should include the same level of care as that of politicians and all government workers who participate in the government health care benefit plan to ensure that the poorest, and more disadvantaged Americans receive adequate care. If these standards are better than those provided by private insurance companies, then anyone who wants to participate in a government option should be allowed to do so.

An insurance card is nothing more than an admission ticket to the doctor's office (which I've been saying for years). Certainly, insurance no longer covers the substantial portion of medical charges like it used to - but insurance premiums are reaching bankrupt-the-family levels.

Government plans need to reimburse at greater rates than 25 cents on every dollar charged - that will bring down the medical industry's overcharges and compensate providers more adequtely. The way to help pay for that, because the wealthy cannot and will not tolerate paying for all of it, is to charge each person a certain amount per month, based on net income after housing, food, utilities and transportation costs - the most basic of necessities for most Americans. Those who are unemployed are excused until they find jobs.

All medical charges should be standardized nationally. That takes away incentives for doctors to leave one area for another and levels the playing field for every patient. It relieves cost of living burdens in already obscenely expensive areas to live in.

Malpractice suits should be capped, but not at $250,000 - that's absurdly low, especially for instance, in cases where a young person is permanently disabled and whose potential earnings would total 10 or 20 times that over a lifetime.

The rates for these suits should also be standardized based on national median income and lifetime costs to address whatever damages were incurred - that means the wealthy won't get absurdly high settlements based on their incomes and the poor or working poor won't be made rich at the expense of others. Want higher settlements? Raise income levels for everyone so the median increases.

Since medical costs are generally reduced when something is caught early, mandatory annual physicals for every citizen would help reduce overall medical costs, provided treatment is available and given.

Employers who manipulate the system to shift their employees' coverage to government plans must be charged for those costs. That will certainly reduce the tax necessity on individual citizens, rich or poor. Example: Sam's Club currently makes a full time employee wait a year for coverage eligibility. If that worker has a family, more than likely, they will end up using Medicaid or some state-sponsored plan. We all pay taxes to contribute to that vicarious form of corporate welfare.

Employers who offshore jobs to avoid providing health coverage should be taxed to cover all lost jobs and all tax benefits they get for moving offshore should be rescinded. Countries who receive those jobs should be taxed on goods they export to this country and costs of their goods in our markets should not increase. Countries represented by illegals should also be taxed to cover ALL of those people's expenses.

Coverage and treatment decisions should be made by medical professionals, not bean counters or underwriting clerks who can't even spell the conditions on which they are making coverage decisions.

Eliminate any insurance determination procedures that limit normal care, incentivize rationing of care at the expense of patients' health, or reward doctors for not providing standard levels of care. That's nothing short of bureaucratic murder for patients who die for lack of proper care.

Medical providers must accept a certain percentage of government-covered patients, given their geographical demographics, to keep their licenses - that balances the earnings playing field for everyone in the industry and assures access to providers locally.

Place tariffs on goods imported to this country from those were workers have little or no health care access to level the playing field.

If we eliminated insurance companies and diverted those premiums into a national healthcare system, how much would individual taxes really increase?

The uncreedentialed Prez said volumes yesterday when asked if he and the congress would opt for the same med plan they want for us and abandon their tax paid health care the answer was, "We will think about it."

Think about it my butt, you want to sell snake oil dude you had best learn to drink your own concoction in public and swallow it.

This guy and his cronies are outright crooks, it's time for a recall and he still won't produce his credentials or school records but that is going to change soon, or else.

ROBW...

You have got to be kidding! Your assuming that we have jobs that pay a little money. There will be so many that claim hardship that you Rob will have to pay for their added medical costs! Not only that... you will have to pay for the illegals that are in the country... in fact... you already are!

By the time that they begin to tax us for the amount of "discretionary money" that we have by raising another fee or hidden tax... say like "road use"....well. And what about that curse word..."Inflation".

But hey... A household making $30,000 per year (working two part-time jobs) will be able to put $900.00 (3%) into discretionary spending. That's maybe 14 trips to the movie theatre for a family of four.

Shucks!

Tote 'dat barge. Heft 'dat bale. Git 'little drunk and lands in jail.

Camptown race 'tis mile long. Do da. Do da.

The World Health Organization release a different ranking of countries health system.

US #1 for response to medical issues

US #1 survival rate of cancer.

Hears a couple of statistics you won't hear'

US #1 for medical lawsuits

US #1 for awards for malpractice suits.

Pater & others you will never hear a positive thing about anyone of any other party unless you listen to media sources other than NBC, ABC, and CBS - whose ratings added up don't equal that of Fox. There is a big reason for that, called we tell you what to think about the news instead of hears the news AND a opposing opinions of it.

For those who really want tort reform, if the candidate is a lawyer dump them unless their position is for tort reform. Just dumping the incumbents is not the solution, you will throw out good ones as well as the bad. And end up with a huge group of inexperience know-nothings! Just dumping the incumbents, especially republican, was what was done in the last election. Boy that sure worked good, didn't it!

We as a nation need to pay attention to what these jerks are saying and what their record is instead of how good they look and intelligent you think they sound (or better stated were told they were & made to appear). Favor is deceitful and beauty is vain comes to mind.

As for the ridiculous claim that Republicans didn't have a plan. They did! There were vouchers for insurance premiums to the insurance company & plan of your choice NOT a government plan you have to take or a plan that meets what the government decides. Heck, the politicians won't accept the plan they write for you! I don't agree with how the vouchers were to be applied, but in a different form this is the way to go. They advocated tort reform nationwide - one of the largest increasing expense is jury award, surely their is a reasonable way to reign this cost in. Close the borders to illegals - cutting this down means less free medical care is given away meaning hospital costs don't need to be so high to pay for it all. But because the party was republican and the nation was taught by democrats and the news media to hate republicans america closed their eyes and put even bigger spenders and true control freaks in.

The world laughs at us for our insanity.

Does anyone out there want this to change? Burr-headed my side is right and your side wrong and people in the middle running between the two is part of the problem.

Our forefathers understood this principal. A government that is not limited will limit you. Our government is too big now.

They also gave us advice on how to stop this, make the government your servant. If they are voting for spending than money coming in, vote that individual out! If they are intruding on your freedom of choice, vote that individual out! If they are raising your taxes, they are mostly covering for their mismanagement, vote that individual out. Hint: that is also why the second amendent was crucial. Arms to remove repression if necessary! I don't want to see that, let's vote smart this next time.

Our news media was supposed to help us hear, but they seem to be the fox watching the henhouse. Instead being the exposer of all misdeeds, the news media exposes only they care to and in the light they want you to see it (i.e. they are telling you what to think - how condescending!). The only way to get rid of this blight is stop depending on these theives!. We are intelligent people. We can read those bills and figure out what those rascally politicians are up to. Every bill in congress should be tagged with it's bill number. NONE of the news media offers this information. ALL of them say "trust me". I WANT TO READ the BILLS MYSELF and know which one is being discussed! Trust but verify!

Sorry for the rant, but SOMEONE needed to say these things.

Let's face it, BTCO, the longer we delay this pile of crap, the better. I'm not defending big insurance, I simply DO NOT TRUST the same government that gave us social security, welfare, cash for clunkers, the bailouts, TARP, and the GM/Chrysler fiasco to do anything right. These fools KNOW that the new program will suck, or they would want it for themselves. That tells me all I would need to know, even if I didn't have enough brains to research gov't healthcare the world over. EVERY one of them quickly has to ration healthcare or go broke. Taxes ALWAYS go up , while quality and service goes down. Grow up, get a job, take responsibility for your own life. STOP MAKING ME PAY FOR YOUR LAZINESS, PEOPLE. I AM NOT YOUR MOMMY, AND NEITHER IS THE GOVERNMET. Socialism is dying around the world, with seven European countries leaning to the right, finally. Communism is dead in most former commie countries. So why on earth do all you liberal people want to go the way of the failed or failing countries instead of simply remaining the shining hope of the rest of the world? Sure, we make mistakes. We are still 1,000 times better than the next closest country.

LIVE FREE OR DIE, AMERICA. NOBAMA 2012

Hopeful American, you twist my words.

"People from socialized countries come here for health care" is not what I said. People who live in countries with universal health care do not come to America for health care. They get better care at home then they can get here, including MRIs, CT scans, knee replacements, cancer treatment, etc. Those are simple facts, and your assertion otherwise is merely echoing propaganda from a deliberate disinformation campaign.

There are between 8,000 to 10,000 extremely wealthy people in the world who, when they need medical treatment, come to the US to stay in certain private hospitals. We help to pay for the highest quality of care available in the world for this select handful of people.

I live in Virginia, and I really can't compare the quality of care I have received to other places, and neither can you, since the relevant data is suppressed. I do know that my elderly mother waited for six hours in the emergency room in one of the wealthiest counties in the country within 20 miles of the Capital building before being seen and admitted. It was not until she finally called me and I started to raise Cain that they decided to see her. She was finally seen and admitted, and died just a few hours later. I still recall the doctor telling me how much it was costing them to keep her on a respirator for the hour it took for my sisters could get there.

The deterioration in the quality of life in this country cannot be attributed to the socialization of a lot of welfare and social programs since countries with universal health care and other socialist aspects to their economy are doing much better than we are. Take a look a the post that sites data from Mercer and WHO.

Just a thought, you know nothing. US survival rates for prostate cancer-650% higher than England, 350% higher than canada. World health Organization stats, NOT Fox news. That is just one of many stats. SO shut up and study before you run off at the mouth.

Gee - One could say that about the President - He has not been honest with the American People about the cost of anything since he took over.

There's one statement Obama makes in his news conference that I would agree with, He state's his health plan will bring more inefficiencies which is the only logical statement he makes. We can't possibly add 50 million to a health well-fair program and pay less for it.

Obama is a mistake.

Obama's own party is beginning to turn against his spend, spend, spend policy.

He has lost the support of most independents.

He has never shown any interest in working with the other party, other than in his speeches.

People are beginning to understand that Obama is all hot air, and a hot head as well.

Obama wants everything pushed through in a hurry. Why?

Obama knows he will NEVER be re-elected. Obama knows his popularity is failing. Congress knows the people are wataching. If he cannot FORCE this bill through very quickly, it will never get through.

It is not about politics. It is about financial suicide.

Lincoln freed the slaves. Obama has made free men economic slaves.

Calling Obama's plan "risky experimentation" is an unwarrented compliment to the plan. Even a risky experiment has SOME chance of working. Obama's plan is a dead on guarantee to ruin the best health care system in the world and drive us deeper into national bankrupcy. If the plan was any good at all, Obama wouldn't need to be working like the Tasmanian Devil to get it through before anyone has the time to think it through. As with the 'stimulus plan' and the gift to the unions in detroit, this is just another version of ACT IN HASTE AND REPENT IN LEISURE.

skeptic-227981, NICE POST!!! Thanks!

If Obama thinks insurance company abuses are the problem, let me propose another program: Let's make LEGAL SERVICES in the U.S. a RIGHT. Let's cap the salaries of lawyers to help pay for the costs of the plan. All lawyers must participate. Then all Americans will have free legal representation to sue their insurance companies for abusing consumers and the problem with the system will be solved.

The difference in Republican plans and Democratic plans (forgetting the characters of the players for a moment) usually revolves around "freedom of choice".

Thus...vouchers are brought into the argument. Democrats just don't like vouchers because the money will usually go to some organization that does not back them. They don't trust the American public to make the right choice. They believe that the American public doesn't have a brain to recognize the best value.

And sometimes they are right! Just look at who has the grips on California and the Federal Government. Special interests including teachers unions and unions at large. They want to control our economy and train of thought.

The next big looming problem coming down the pipe will be our religious freedoms. Mark it down.

I support health care reform, but I have a lot of questions.

Why do most developed countries pay only about half as much per capita on health care, but cover everyone and have higher overall health ratings than America does?

A good article on the differences between our system and theirs would be very useful, and perhaps provide a useful, intelligent guide for our own discussions on how to reform health care.

Obviously, they must be doing something right, and we must be doing something wrong. I suspect that tort reform would make a big difference in costs, but the problem there is that the Trial Lawyers associations own too many Democratic politicians.

How about a comparative analysis.

To me Health care is simple either your insurance company decides what treatments they will pay for or the government does. If it is the insurance company they only care about profit and loss. If it is the government then they cover all basic needs. So you can get basic health care to protect your over all health. Ie Insurance claim choose the finger you want reattached after losing all five to that saw. The government will pay to reattach all five. The doctor has no say anyway he is paid to do either one finger or five. If basic healthcare was covered by the governement then insurance companies can still sell more advanced policies to cover things like Dentistry. Then Genral motors could focus on selling better cars and not Healthcare. If you are mad about government bail outs to banks and insurance companies. Then write and phone in your vote for a public system. Other wise I hope you have a good job that has really good medical benefits. If you don't then it could be you deciding which finger you like best. See the movie Sicko it's more real then you know. Yes Micheal Moore is biased so is Bill O Reily look for the facts not the hoopla. As citizens don't you want everyone being treated equally and fairly. Don't worry about the rich folks they will be fine. Worry about your friends and family who may have crappy jobs with no or little coverage. Socialism is only a dirty word for those with millions not the average person or the poor. Good luck!! You folks will need it!! Curtis...........

Neale Osborn, it is not your lucky day today. I have no intention of doing anything except continuing to confront disingenuous partisan thinking that undermines my country and our quality of life.

Prostate cancer is the most common cancer (second to skin cancer), in American men with a 1 in 6 chance of occurrence, but only one man in 35 will die from it. For all men with prostate cancer, the relative 5-year survival rate is 100%, and the relative 10-year survival rate is 91%. The 15-year relative survival rate is 76% (American Cancer Society).

Let's look at incidence between the US and Canada: According to the "Prostate Cancer Incidence and
Mortality Rates and Trends in the United States and Canada" (http://www.publichealthreports.org/userfiles/119_2/119174.pdf) both incidence of and mortality from prostate cancer showed some small leads and lags but were generally lower in Canada, with the United States often lagging because it failed to start using the PSA test as soon as Canada did. So although Canada offers universal medicine, there is no appreciable difference there.

A recent study published in the July 17th issue of Lancet Oncology and referenced in an article by the US News and World report notes that survival rates for specific types of cancer seem to be related to access to health care and the country's relative wealth.

The United States has the highest rates of survival for breast and prostate cancers, while Japan has the highest survival rates for colon and rectal cancers among men. France has the highest survival rates for colon and rectal cancer among women, the report found. In addition, Canada and Australia also have very high survival rates for most cancers. The lowest rate of survival among both men and women was seen in Algeria.

The article also notes that black men in the US are much more likely to die from prostate cancer than white men.

In Europe, the worst performing European countries are Poland and Slovakia. Poorer European countries pull down the overall European average. There is, as you claim, a significant difference in these types of cancer survival rates between the United States and Europe, including these much poorer European countries, with survival rates 10 percent and 34 percent higher in the United States for breast cancer and prostate cancer, respectively, but this seems to have much more to do with race in the US and access to health care in general, rather than universal vs private health insurance. And the difference is certainly nowhere near the hysterical disparity you cite.

So what this study indicates is that if you are a wealthy white male living in the US your chances of surviving prostate cancer, which are already quite high, increase by as much as 35%.

However, these are not the only indicators for quality of health care and quality of life and there is no connection between these rates and universal coverage, as evidenced by the Canadian study. And I also do not think that millions of Americans should go without health care because the status quo favors your ethnic group and gender.

IT IS SIMPLY CRAZY TO BE BULLIED INTO YET ANOTHER BILL THAT HAS NOT BEEN READ BY THOSE VOTING ON IT! THIS BILL, AS IT STANDS WILL CREATE MORE JOB LOSSES, AND LOWER STANDARDS OF HEALTH CARE. WE CANNOT LET THE PRESIDENT FORCE THIS DISASTER DOWN OUR THROATS!!!!!

btco and others like you - you don't have a clue of what this will do to business and am just looking for a handout. The bottom line is there will not be enough money generated to pay for the coverage. More will lose their health care than gain it.

And why do you keep asking for the Republican plan? Don't you realize that what needs to happen is something quite different from the farce that is currently being presented. Another Liberal smoke screen!

Take off the party blinders and do the math. We simply can't afford the plan and nobody in Washington even during the Clinton era could come up with one we can afford.

How can there be a healthcare 'emergency' if 84% of Americans are happy with their coverage and options?

btco,

Here is your reply, I hope you can Put this in your Crack Pipe and contemplate as to it's meaning,

Franklin Delano. Roosevelt
32^nd. President, Democrat
Terms of Office March 4, 1933 , to April 12, 1945
GO TO HERE !

Our Social Security
Franklin Delano. Roosevelt (Terms of Office March 4, 1933, to April 12, 1945), a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program. He Promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be Completely voluntary,
2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual Incomes into the Program,
3.) That the money the participants elected to put Into the Program would be deductible from Their income for tax purposes each year,
4.) That the money the participants put into the Independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would Only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program, and
5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.
Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to 'Put Away' -- you may be interested in the following:

Dwight David Eisenhower
34^th. President, Republican,
Term Of Office: January 20, 1953 to January 20, 1961

Insert by Vincent Peter Render,

If I recall correctly, 1958 is the first year that Congress, not President Eisenhower, voted to remove funds from Social Security and put it into the General Fund for Congress to spend.
If I recall correctly, it was a democratically controlled Congress.
>From what I understand, Congress logic at that time was that there was so much money in Social Security Fund that it would never run out / be used up for the purpose it was intended / set aside for.

Lyndon Baines Johnson 36^th.. President, Democrat
Term Of Office: November 22, 1963 to January 20, 1969

Question: Which Political Party took Social Security from the Independent 'Trust Fund' and put it into the General Fund so that Congress could spend it?

Answer: It was Lyn don B. Johnson (Democrat, Term of Office: November 22,1963 to January 20, 1969) and the democratically Controlled House and Senate.

Question: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax Deduction for Social Security
(FICA) withholding?
Answer: The Democratic Party.

William Jefferson Clinton
(Bill Clinton)
42^nd. President
Democrat Term of Office: January 20, 1993 to January 20, 2001

Albert Arnold Gore, Jr.
(Al Gore)
45^th. Vice President

Democrat Term of Office: January 20, 1993 to January 20, 2001

Question: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?
Answer: The Democratic Party, with Albert Arnold Gore, Jr. (Al Gore) [Vice President Term of Office: January 10, 1993 to January 20, 2001 ] casting the 'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the US ...

James Earl Carter, Jr
(Jimmy Carter)
39^th President, Democrat
Term of Office: January 20, 1977 to January 20, 1981

Question: Which Political Party decided to start giving Annuity payments to immigrants?

AND MY FAVORITE:

ANSWER: That's right! JAMES EARL CARTER, JR. (jIMMY CARTER) (DEMOCRAT, TERM OF OFFICE: JANUARY 20, 1977 TO JANUARY 20, 1981 AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
IMMIGRANTS MOVED INTO THIS COUNTRY, AND AT AGE 65, BEGAN TO RECEIVE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYMENTS: THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY GAVE THESE PAYMENTS TO THEM, EVEN THOUGH THEY NEVERPAI D A DIME INTO IT!

"Damn", have you ever seen a Jack-ass eating briers...!

Then, after violating the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is uninformed citizens believe it!

If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of Awarenesswill be planted and maybe changes WILL evolve! .. Maybe not, some Democrats are awfully sure of what isn't so. But it's worth a try. How many people can YOU send this to?
Actions speak louder than bumper stickers.
AND CONGRESS GIVES THEMSELVES 100% RETIREMENT FOR ONLY SERVING ONE TERM!!!

Thomas Jefferson
3^rd. President, Democrat
Term of Office: January 20, 1777 to January 20, 1781

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".

Any time a politician starts saying rush, rush, rush, especially about something not even printed in final form, it is because he or she has something to hide. We haven't forgotten the Economic Non-Stimulus Bill yet. Draft a final document, let it sit for 4 months until every committee can see it, and then act. This is too big and expensive to just rush through and Obama gives no one any confidence with his pressure to rush.

His administration has given no one confidence at any point. I thought at first he wanted to get everything done right away. But now I see he wants to power grab everything right away and make us all dependent on him and then we have no right to speak against him because he can then take it away. Just like the Jefferson quote up above.

Even Dems don't want to rubber-stamp health care reform (unlike the way the GOP Borg operated under Bush/Cheney). But Republicans and conservatives in general appear to be incapable of having intelligent and meaningful discussions. As usual, the right-wing nuts are out in full force with hyperbole, propaganda, and outright lies.

First of all, socialized medicine is what we have now, but for the few--the poor (Access) and their children, people on disability (via Social Security), and people who don't or can't pay medical bills (including illegals), and our wonderful Congressional representatives. There are no "socialism" bills being considered that will make health care providers government employees.

Secondly, if health care insurance is mandated the same way auto insurance was, then everyone has to kick in for at least minimal coverage regardless of income. Mandatory premiums or taxes are NOT "free" health care. It's how you make it fair because everyone contributes, and that's how you pay for it in the long run.

Third, and most importantly, insurance companies need to be regulated, pharmaceutical companies need to compete with imports, and both, along with health care providers need to be more efficient with profits capped. Yeah, that's what lobbyists don't want. They are spending millions a day to lobby instead of investing in your health this very minute. And pro-Big Business Republicans aren't saying anything about regulation.

Enough with Republican economics, fear mongering, and hopes that Obama will fail and we all suffer. I say forget bi-partisanship, and git er done!

Canada has nationalized healthcare and it doesn't work. You either wait in the hospital forever or you go somewhere else and pay for the service. Mass. has a plan that has 97% of the population having health insurance but the state can't afford it. It's not working.

The Gov't runs social security. Thats working well.

The Gov't is behing fanny and freddie. That works well.

Why is there any reason to believe that the gov't would run healthcare well?

I agree that healthcare is expensive and love the idea of getting the costs under some level of control but I have zero confidence that the gov't is the answer and I certainly don't agree that this is something that the Dems should push through as fast as possible. If they are going to do it then take the time to do it right.

If and when Congress lays out a health care reform bill, I hope that it will be given full exposure so that people will know what it means, and not another 1000+ page "stimulus" bill that nobody has read, and the push is on to pass it before anybody finds out what's wrong with it.

If I remember properly, Obama promised transparency in bills, with an opportunity for public review and comment. So far, I haven't seen it on the "stimulus" bill, the "Cap & Trade" bills, or the "health care reform" proposals.

It seems to be "quick, pass it before the people find out what it really means". That is NOT what we were led to believe.

Is there a clause in the Obama care that will get the illegals out of the emergency rooms? With 50 million illegals and their families using the free EMR there is no room for emergency treatment. If the Dems would allow the deportation of the illegals then there would be plenty of room for the no payers that need health care.

A comment was just made that we have "socialized" healthcare now. That is true and look how great the government does running those. Both medicare and SSI are in debt in the tune of billions because our government has no concept of what to do. Canada's system along with the european systems are all failing. I agree we need to do something but not for the sake of git-r-done is the wrong way to go about it. And stop trying to tie Pro-Big business Repubs into it. Look at how much Obama and the Dems bend over backwards for the Unions which are the ones who have great contracts for their works but don't give a damn about the regular person. Government nationalizing everything and making unions bigger and have more power isn't a socialistic program like SSI or medicare. It is a fundamental change in how our government works and one by one your freedoms disappear until you sit back and realize it is too late.

What data do you have to support your claim that Canada's system is worse than ours? Our system is broken. It sucks so bad that Americans are going overseas in increasing numbers for health care. Our system is so expensive that people would settle for bad health care than have no health care. But who says reform has to look just like Canada's? Gees, stop watching FOX News.

I trust the government (elected officials) FAR more than insurance agencies, pharmaceutical companies, or health care providers (i.e., doctors who spend more time on the golf course than they do providing care to you and I). Come on people, do the real homework with a truly open mind, and stop succumbing to fear mongering from Big Business who wants to keep ripping you off, and Republicans who are desperate, and Haters who are bitter.

True Patriot,

get the peanut butter out of your ear and quit staring into the strobe lights. After you do that, you might see that above you is Congressional record facts. After that, I'll consider sharing with you the actual stupid things republicans have done so you can actually hit them where they deserve it, not where they don't deserve it!

What you spewed is pure politics. Politics are misrepresentations of facts or what is believed despite the facts.

Someone please answer to why this comment was "collapsed by the community" Shouldn't it say "This comment collapsed by mindless Democrats"

"The Republican Plan is to stop this poor excuse of a President to control health care. Those of you that want to back Obama on getting this passed can only be those that don't have health coverage because they are not smart enough to figure out how to get it. They simply want it free. Don't know who coined the following phrase, but those people following Obama are just what the pharse is about." " Mass media have a terrible impact on people who lack guidance "

btco - every comment you have is "Republicans this or Republicans that" Get a new tune.

Everyone including the Democraps are seeing that the cost of this bill will destroy the country. Only you husseinophants can't get it through your thick skulls.

Why should someone who makes above a certain amount be forced to pay for insurance for a person who chooses to make unhealthy life choices and chooses to buy things other than health insurance? 75% of the people at the "poverty" level have cars and over 2/3rd of them are obese. If you can afford a vehicle and to be obese you could have afforded health insurance or at least afforded to be healthier. The fundamental issue is that Americans should have liberty and taxing us reduces that liberty to choose.

Steele is complaining about health care cost and that guy gets his for free at our, the tax payers expense. So far the republicans have complained about everything Obama is trying to do...but as yet they have not come up with anything of their own....other than reduce taxes on business and the rich....they are so far protecting the companies and the rich to the hilt....and making sure we get the bill for it. Though they are not really by themselves...the dem's are helping with spending too....granted something had to be done considering the problems we are having....but bailing our the very industry that they deregulated just does not seem right.

Obama will put us all in a ghetto

Skeptic...sorry it looks like your question to me was written hours ago.

In answer to your question the answer is unfortunately ..NO.

Just in case you want to read at it. I found the whole document for download on the ways and means site. It is long and mind numbing but I would really encourage everyone to educate themselves as there could be something that may have not stuck out to me that is important to you.

My fear is what you are saying that this will still be unaffordable for many. my fear this is not affordable and could still bankrupt people.

There is nothing in there mandating that elected official have to use this plan.

It looks like three plans will be offered. The first is a seventy percent pay out, the "enhanced" plans as the were worded were eighty-five and ninety-five on the pay out the way it currently reads they all have the same deductible that $5k per person $10k per family.

Other areas that concern me. I was well baby and well child ( thank goodness) but no other reference to well care. The plan as view seems more like major medical, now that is JMO.

It does talk about whistle blower protection. Anyone feeling that the insurance was not being payed out correctly would be able to submit to a panel for review. Refers to how the nine person panel will be set up and run it and the per-diam pay they will receive. Also talks about auditing the state programs and private insurance companies.

Now here are some other issues that raise eyebrows. They have to accept you that part is completely true, however you can indeed still be rated on pre-existing condition. The wording went some like you cannot be discriminated against by having a unique premium anyone with the like condition or age has to be charged the same. So as I took it ...if you are a fifty year old breast cancer survivor they cannot just charge you one price and all others something else all fifty year old breast cancer survivors would be charges the same premium. As I read these parts I thought were is the government plan better then? They are still going to rate you , you will still get increases as you get older.

I can tell you that the rumor most of us heard that private insurance will become illegal after this is passed is true. This is on page sixteen or seventeen. the jest is you may indeed keep your current coverage but if you lose then you must be enrolled in the goverment plan unless by some chance your new employer has the same company and same plan.

For the employers the biggest thing I recall is that the choice is a 8% payroll tax for companies making over 250K a year if the company does not have insurance.

Skeptic, seriously download it , make a huge pot of coffee and read to see if this works for you and your family. If it does great, if it does not start writing your elected officials.

Our elected Americans need to keep on working because this is not a fit for most Americans. For me this plan was not what I am looking for in reform ( and I am looking for reform so every American can have affordable health insurance), to me it sounded like I would be spending more, a lot more. Truly I do not want the government running our health care I see how badly it has been on my brother he was a marine, injured and now disabled, his medical care is not good and continues to get cut. I feel the same will happen if this reform goes through.

Hey, stop watching FOX News and listening to Hate radio. Ad hominem attacks are what people do when they don't have an intelligent response to make.

BTW, is Senator DeMint on Prozac? Or maybe "meds" for mental problems. Well if so, these aren't working.

“Let’s fight our way through the politics of the moment,” Obama said.

You heard your prisident liberals. Let's throw this Obamanure out in the pasture were it belongs.

Party of no? Do you mean like no oil and gas drilling ANYWHERE in U.S.? Do you mean no to new nuclear plants, no to new windmills that block the Kennedy's views, no to solar fields in the desert southwest (thanks enviro nazis) no to keeping jobs in the U.S. (see cap and trade)? No to discussing the real probelm with healthcare and the rest of our economy, that is lawyers. So you dems elect even more to guard the hen house. Good going. Will Obama impose windfall profit taxes on his $600 an hour frivilous lawsuit buddies? Don't think so. He'll come after the middle-class instead by trippling energy costs.

We say no to travelling the world and trashing America. We say no to sacraficing our entire ecomomy at the alter of a crazy green religion (the earth has been cooling for 11 years while C02 keeps rising....educate yourselfs for God's sake). We say no to cutting missle defense while you try to sweet talk dictators with nukes. We say no to borrowing so much money from China than can be paid back in several lifetimes.

The moron non-producers have out bred the productive, responsible Americans. That is why Obama got elected.

Maybe it's time for everyone to step back and take a hard look at all the plans on the table. Maybe it's time Obama get off his steamroller and let the economy recover before heaping more debt on the economy and its taxpayers. Maybe it's time we look at reducing the costs of existing healthcare before we move on to a new and obviuosly costly plan that we cannot afford. Congress has just come off dealing with the economy and there is no possible way they have been able to adequately analyze the plan Obama has put on the table (maybe that's the idea?). This whole process stinks and I think we all know who the skunks are in this potential and probable disaster. Contact your representatives...slow this thing down so we can all take a hard look at what's at stake.

It would be nice if people would to stay on topic (i.e., regarding this article), if they would not post in all bold, and they provided links to reliable (please note the word "reliable") sources when they claim something is a fact.

In regard to TARP, this was passed under Bush/Cheney, tort laws are not the sole reason for rising health care costs, and polls show the majority of Americans want health care reform (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html), but not necessarily some of the bills currently presented, and can we stop hearing about Obama's ego?

Thanks, carry on...

Annette, in case you come back in to see if I got the message - I did. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. I really appreciate it. We're in the middle of a move, but I will try to get to the whole document.

From what you are saying in your answer to me, the government is once again telling us one thing and touting 'press release' changes, but is not forthcoming with the real details - case in point, the 50-year old cancer survivor example. This is so typical. And some politician somewhere is going to look straight into a news conference camera with a straight face and say s/he is 'proud' of this bill. (Insert very unhappy smiley face here...)

No doubt you've seen the latest article that just came out this evening detailing the 10-year timeline for this mess. I cannot believe the hubris of these legislators - on either side. They want to start taxing the rich in 2011 and not cover the uninsured until 2013. At no time on any station did we hear anything about that until this article tonight.

What you have told me so far, and with all the information that is now coming forward, I cannot support this as it stands. I really want to see health care reform - as you can see in what I posted above - but what's coming down the pike is not going to fix anything. This bill doesn't address the runaway costs and a $5,000 or $10,000 deductible is the same as no insurance at all for a vast number of families. That's $5K or $10K EACH, probably, too. It's a very bad bill. And if this goes through in its present form, I will vote against any incumbent that voted for it. To my way of thinking, this is nothing more than a backdoor subsidy for insurance companies at everyone's expense. Between what you've let me know and the newest article, my stomach is in knots. This is really bad.

Thanks again for responding. I appreciate the time you took.

JustAThought, Google the terms OECD, health comparisons, 23 developed countries, and take a look at where we stand. It will help you prove your point if you're going to write to any legislators. There's also OECD Health Data 2009 report you might be interested in. Takes a while to download it because it's in parts - lots of them. As a student, I was able to get the zip.

JustAThought08:

You are wrong about everything. Your mom would have waited a lot longer in Canada, UK or Europe. And I don't buy your "story". No doctor would focus on the cost of a respirator for an obviously terminal patient!

Thanks btco for getting your comment collapsed so that all the good comments go too.

Another indicator of who Obama is and what he wants, is his associations. He coddles socialist dictators like Hugo Chavez, and Daniel Ortega. Obama is a student of Saul Alinski and so far, he's playing exactly by the book. 1.64 brianb

This is typical garbage from the folks that listen to hannity. how has he coddled with any of those dictators? sometimes i read some of the bullsh!t that you people post and ask if you are really serious or just acting the fool but it seems that you people actually think that hannity, Limbaugh and the rest of the hate mongers are telling you the truth.

stop for a minute and look at these "great Americans". Listen to what they are telling you these men are all worth well over $100 million dollars each and do not worry about health care and the recession because they can get the best health care out there and are in no danger of going bankrupt to pay for a loved ones treatment. Most of their listeners don't have that luxury but they are tricked by these people to believe that all is well with the current system and that we should let the free market work things out. Well guess what we have been screwed over and over by the "free market" for years, why should they stop now?

Commonsense.....you surely picked the wrong name. Why should people not believe that a persons past associations have something to do with his beliefs and thinking??? He is the one who chose those associations. You then go into the anti conservative story. Why shouldnt people listen to that side of the debate and make up their own minds as to what the proper direction is? For so many years, we had media information that was slanted to the left and little input that disputed that. And now you just want to dismiss all other information and to go back to that one-sided media crap. Then you attack them because you think all the conservative talkers are rich. If people didnt want their information, they would not have been financially successful. We should put our faith in people who have failed?? Leftist talkshows on the radio have sadly failed. .....".We have been screwed over ond over by the free market for years". I believe that is the indication that you prefer some other method of gov and gov rules rather than what has proven to make our country great. I believe that what you are saying is that socialism is better and that is what you are pushing........I will say that this is another case where our politicians have consistantly failed and it is way past time for them to be less political and try to solve some problems. We need the commonsense.....but not your brand of it.......lets get out of the crap that everything has to be political and really try to make our system work.........we dont need aother system.

so i guess you are like the talkingg heads that i mention and believe that everything is fine with the current system and that there is no need for reform? just like them you have no idea how to fix the problems that are facing millions of Americans. All that you have to offer is the same tired plan "Cut taxes" and let the health care providers do as they please in the hope that they will do what is right for the country.

you say that he has has chosen his associations? how has he associated with dictators? that was my question that you have still not answered.

You are a victim of the misinformation being put out by the right wing talkers, you have fallen for the quick talking points of Hannity and the rest

• "he is a socialist"
• "he's not a real American"
• "he is out to destroy the country"
• "he will inslave our children for generations to come"
• "he has weaken our defences and making us less safe"

And on and on. Don't get me wrong i have nothing against them because they are rich but the problem that i do have is that they are in the buisness of deceit. they (and the left has some too) contribute to the dumbing down of the country with there Lies covered in fake patriotism to fool the masses.

• "your a great American"
• "we represent real American values"

Yes I have, have you!!

And do you know how well the system works now (NOT).

I also recent the fact that you think I don't have a mind of my own!! Who is the sheep here!!! Same Old, Same Old.

Version, please list what you like in the proposal.

For all you Obama supporters out there - just what is he fixing? He has stated there will be no change in the health care industry regarding lawsuits. He got lots of boo's for that when he spoke to the medical industry executives. The republicans say there must be tort reform if we are to fix this mess. So I give the republicans points for that issue. We all know that the lawyers are the biggest contributors to democrats. All the liberal democrats are doing is making successful people open their pocketbooks to take care of less fortunate or even lazy ones among us. That is not reform!!

Version. I'll go one on one with you on Health Care. You tell me how it will be good for you and I will explain, so you understand, How it won't be good. Want to take the challenge or do you just come in here to show your ignorance?

LOSER

Version - I'm really interested in what you agree with on Obama's plan. While you explain your likes, please go one step further and tell us all how it will be paid for. Please, I am so very much interested in hearing from an Obama supporter the ideas to purchase this plan. Remember, using 2007's total healthcare cost of $2.7 trillion, each and every American will have to come up with $750 per month. A family of 4 will have to pay $3000.00 per month to pay for the plan... and that's in 2007 dollars.

Version - Crickets?

Brian - can you link to something that shows the $3000 per month cost?

I'll admit I don't know as much as I should about the plan, so I'm not going to try to defend it just yet. All I know is I'm sick of the arguments about socialism. The GOP screamed for years that we needed to privatize Social Securiity. Then the market crashed. Talk about crickets!

I also read a hilarious story wherein some "anti-socialist" screamed that she didn't want the government to get its hand on Medicare or Medicaid. Uh....

I do want something to be done. Others have suggestions with which I TOTALLY agree - regulating HMOs and reigning in the pharmaceutical companies. Whatever happens, our doctors need not be afraid of treating us in the way that's best for US - not the HMOs or drug companies. Doctors shouldn't have any other incentive in treating us than to do their best - period. I'm sorry if that means they give up free lunches, trips and other bonuses, but this kind of crap needs to stop.

And being insured doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, anymore. I'm insured. I also have a stack of medical bills that will take me years to pay. The premiums are high and the coverage is lame. For example, after fighting with my doctor for months about needing a lumbar MRI, he finally caved, which revealed a herniated disc pressing squarely into my spinal canal. The HMO preferred he did NOT refer me for that test, and even after I got it, I was sent a bill for $860 - my portion of that MRI.

When my neurosurgeon needed to send me for another MRI (another herniated disc), he had to LIE to the powers that be and say my sciatic pain was bilateral, else they wouldn't approve it. Anyone who's had sciatica understands that one-sided pain is debilitating enough. The idea that the pain has to be bilateral is insane. That, of course, was another $860 bill.

In the early hours after this last Christmas, the pilot light went out on my gas furnace. I didn't realize it had a mechanical problem and, when I tried to light it, I nearly blew off my face. I burned my right hand (second degree), hair, lashes, brows (but luckily no facial damage.) I called the fire department because I was concerned about the furnace and a potential fire hazard. I was ordered into an ambulance, though I was sure I was fine. More big bills.

By the way, where my back is concerned, I cannot afford the physical therapy recommended for me becausebecaues of the co-pays.

And I find it hard to believe that Obama, of all people, would expect a family of four to pay $36,000 per year, so again, I'd love to see some proof.

At some point we simply have to be brave enough to address the 800 lb. Gorilla in the (waiting) room,illegal immigrants.We are picking up the tab for those whose very existance in our country is a crime.I know there are no easy answers (NAFTA has made this problem even worse) but ignoring it won't make it go away.

Ellen, go to the ways and means site download a copy and you decide, see if this plan is best for you and your family or if you need to write some letter to tell them keep on working.

I vote no as written. I cannot confirm the monthly cost but I can tell you in the 1018 pages it talks about the plans deductible. Hold on to your hat. $5000. per individual $10000. per family. This is just one of several things that makes me say no.

Reining in the cost of health insurance is a must but this plan as written I fear will do more damage then good.

Republicans want and support an open health care system where patients and doctors make the decisions," Steele said.

The truth is, Obama wants the same. The republicans actually want the existing system where the insurance companies make ALL the decisions and leave out the patient and doctor part.

Version - would you mind telling us how YOU managed to read what is in the Health Care Bill, and the members of Congress (excluding - probably- the committee that drafted it) hav NOT read it ?

Blowhard partisan sheep.

Observer: Especially for free loaders like you. You are so supportive of Obama but haven't read the bill have you? Get a life and read what you re screaming is all so good and free for us all. Quit spamming all the junk on here! This bill isn't needed, its a joke. Full of pork, playgrounds, roads, buying surplus meat on the market, not health care! Its more taxes, less care, it's pure garbage straight from Washington. Folks please go on-line and read the bill. Check out pages 16 and 17, see if that doesnt shock you.

P.S. Thank you webmaster for paying attention.

The argument that the responsibility for this out of control system is about illegal immigrants is ridiculous. This is a national issue, affecting every city, county and state, not just those that struggle with large populations of illegal immigrants.

the contents of this proposal are public. Search out and read, it's criminal and everyone that pays taxes should be extremely pissed at our government for drafting such criminal nonsense, much less considering it!

Here are the main points of President Obama's health care reform, available at:http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf The below is paraphrased. Words in italics represent my own comments.

The plan begins by acknowledging the realities of the health insurance industry's failures. Health insurance premiums have doubled over the last eight years, rising almost 4X faster than wages. Increasing co-pays and deductibles threaten access to care. Coverage is exposing families to unlimited financial liability, causing more than half of the personal bankruptcies. The health care delivery system itself has become seriously flawed, with at least 100,000 Americans dying from preventable medical errors every year. 25% of expenditures go to administrative and overhead costs, using outdated paper-based systems that contribute to escalating costs.

The number of uninsured Americans is increasing, with at least 45 million going without insurance and without health care - 80% of these families are employed. The problems with allocating resources effectively and efficiently are contributing to poor prevention and public health efforts, leaving us vulnerable to new threats from pandemics and bioterrorism.

The plan seeks to address these shortcomings by:

1) Decreasing the cost of inefficiencies and ineffectiveness ($50 -$100 billion a year) by investing in electronic health information technology systems; improve treatment and reduce costs by improving the coordination of care through better information-sharing.

2) Improve access to proven prevention and disease management programs to reduce costs associated with crisis care and poor outcomes related to poorly managed chronic conditions.

3) Require transparency for quality of care and costs. Many hospitals do a much better job than others in giving high quality care, but you are currently not allowed to know about that.

4) Focus efforts on improved quality of care by implementing error-reduction processes, invest in comparative research, tackle systemic disparities in care, and reforming medical malpractice while ensuring patients rights.

5) Address anti-competitive regulations that unfairly promote profits for pharmaceutical and insurance companies (i.e., corporate welfare).

6) Increase competition in the insurance industry (not eliminate them. The fact is when the current system was designed, there were hundreds more companies then there are today. It was meant to work in a competitive environment. Now after a handful of big companies have bought out all the others, there are only a very few huge companies. This is directly related to inefficiencies and increases in costs to taxpayers).

7) Prevent waste and abuse in Medicare, which got out of control under the Bush administration with the private option Medicare Advantage. This plan is pumping billions of taxpayer dollars into insurance company pockets.

8) Allow for the importation of safe drugs from other countries.

9) Prevent drug companies from unfairly blocking generics.

10) Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices.

11) Reduce costs related to catastrophic illnesses for employers. Ever hear of an entire company's employees having to pay double on their premiums because one or two employees got really sick? I sure have.

12) Guarantee that all are eligible. The health insurance companies insure only the healthy and make profits while taxpayers pay for the people who are poor and the people who are sick. How is this fair?

13) Provide affordable options through a National Health Insurance Exchange. Banks compete for your business. Why shouldn't health insurance companies?

14) Support families and small business with tax credits to help them pay for 50% of private health insurance premiums.

There is more. All of these measures are pro Americans, pro Business and pro Competition.

Brianb-999431, I already commented on how ridiculous your assertion about illegal immigrants causing the crisis is. Just for starters, if that were the case the problem would be localized, not national.

The government is already deeply involved in health care. We spend billions in Medicare and Medicaid and SCHIP. Medicare Advantage is costing the government an additional 12% in costs, all of which goes straight into health insurance company pockets.

I have no problem with taking this system out of the same type of blind, profit-motivated financial institutions that happily ruined our economy and putting it into the hands of the people who I at least know something about and can vote into and out of office.

It works for education, police, DMV, the postal service, firefighters, public health care workers, public maintenance, and the military. It works for dozens of countries that have much better health care and a much higher standard of living than we do. You're saying we can't do as well as the rest of the industrialized world?

robin-hood-tactics, you should find out a few things before you go off on President Obama about abandoning his efforts to address health care costs in favor of fixing the economy. The two are closely linked, because the absence of reform is one of the main factors threatening both the long and short term health of the economy. We can't balance the budget and simultaneously support the private health insurance industry and big pharma. the Bush administration's strategy of corporate welfare is at the core of these problems, and President Obama's plan begins to address that in many ways, including through fostering competition.

Voter in LA, you wrote:

"You're right to an extent, but insurance companies are paying out sums far higher than what the very same doctors receive from medicare/medicaid provided care for the same purpose."

I did not say that the government pays out the same or higher reimbursement rates. Medicaid and Medicare rates are set by Congress, and are adjusted according to "usual and customary rates." Insurance companies negotiate reimbursement rates with doctors and hospitals that may or may not vary from Medicare and Medicaid rates - it depends completely on the locality. The disparity in reimbursement rates is one of the problems contributing to fraud that President Obama's plan would address.

You wrote: "You cannot solely view the insurance companies as the villains. Health providers as in doctors' offices, hospitals, pharmaceuticals are equally to blame."

I do not mean to identify them as the sole problem. Obviously, the corporate welfare provided to big pharma is another issue, an issue that President Obama's plan also addresses.

However, doctors offices provide health care. Hospitals provide health care. Even pharmaceutical companies are providing health care. Health insurance companies do not provide one minute of health care. They simply manage and profit from a reimbursement system that they created that is completely superfluous. There is already a payment structure in place managed by the government, that could be made far less complicated without health insurance companies. Many countries very successfully manage without health insurance companies, since they are not integral to the provision of care.

You wrote " Costs paid for by insurance companies are already subsidizing the "uninsured". Unless the expenses incurred at the health provider level are curtailed, those carrying insurance will continue to bear an unfair portion of the burden."

Health insurance companies are very, very careful to make certain that they do no bear the burden for the uninsured. There are various mechanisms for reimbursing costs, and none of them are based on what the hospital bills the patient. I have experience in this field, too, and I know that for a hospital to stay open it has to pay for pro bono work and revenue from health insurance companies does not figure into the equation.

"My wife until a short while ago was a VP in administration for a "non profit hospital". I have to admit I was taken aback when I saw the size of her bonus after she first joined. I am not talking a few thousand. Her bonus was 6 figures and many in the corporate end of the hospital saw larger than that. This wasn't a "one-off" occasion. This was the norm. People villify executives of public companies making millions yet appear to be perfectly OK with endorsing that kind of remuneration for hospital staff and I'm not talking doctors and nurses."

I agree, there is a payment structure that is not equitable.

"You are wrong on one aspect, an insurance company providing group coverage through an employer can NOT adversely select or deny to provide coverage for an older person. If they provide group coverage, it is there for all, young or old."

You misinterpret me. I am talking about the cost of paying for Medicare, SCHIP and Medicaid. This is the government's responsibility, not private industry. And if one of those employees gets very sick and costs the health insurance company a lot of money, premiums go through the roof. This happened to me at two small businesses I worked at. Premiums doubled in both cases.

You wrote "People complain about the "average cost" of insurance, I wonder what the real statistics are for the "average cost" of medicare/medicaid provided insurance. I'd suspect per capita even with the lower reimbursement provisions it is still not much cheaper (if at all) than conventional insurance. And if you remove those who are currently subsidizing the health providers cost by removing that, then obviously government insurance will increase proportionately. "

There is plenty of data available on the cost of insurance. The fact is that the government carries the full cost of paying for health care for those who health insurance companies do not want to carry. Only those who represent the potential for profit are considered by health insurance companies - that is the employed, who are generally not elderly and are healthy - and even there, they hedge their bets, with more and more employers unable to pay half of the premiums, and more and more employees unable to pay their half, too.

I would respectfully request that you review the statistics on increasing cost of premiums and deductibles, decreasing quality of care, and increasing profits for the health insurance industry and address that ini your justification of private insurance companies.

Version, Ivingbarefoot wanted to know what points you like about Obama's health plan. Please tell me why everybody deserves to have a health care system in the first place. Is it because we live in the USA? Is it that the poor souls born and stuck in some poor ass country don't deserve health care? Americans have turned into greedy people where the politician that give's away more gets the vote.

But we sure don't need something worse.

People, the reason Social Security is tanking is because the majority of SS funds are used for disability payments to people of all ages -- not health care for the elderly. The reason Medicare is tanking is because of fraudulent claims submitted by greedy health care providers.

Not only could health care reform alleviate programs like Social Security and Medicare, it is an important and fundamental part of economic recovery. Now most bankruptcies are due to medical bills, and most of these are people who have insurance. And just think how much more disposable income you'd have to stimulate the economy if you weren't paying outrageous premiums and medical bills.

Come on, don't listen to the Big Business/Republican sound bites. Think for yourself and your own best interest--and then contact you representatives and demand they walk away for those campaign contributions from insurance, pharmaceutical, and other lobbyists.

I have $2500 individual $5000 Family and that's considered not good. I could have gone to a cheaper plan and gotten $5000 individual and $10,000 Family and saved maybe another $1200 per year. Many employers plans are about $1500 individual and $3000 family and the employees squawk about that.

“Let’s fight our way through the politics of the moment,” Obama said.

You heard your President liberals. Let's throw this Obamanure out in the pasture were it belongs

True Patriot, you think maybe just maybe, there are fraudulent claims made by citizens as well? greedy health care recipients. When you have government handing out the money the pigs line up at the trough. Name one government program that works? your explaining why this thing stinks, Medicare is going broke, Social Security broke, Post Office losses money, I am sure this program, that our elected officials do not even want will be the one that works. I and many millions of Americans like our health care, and page 17 states we will not be able to "choose" read it. Do I care "illegals" have no health care? no, do I think it is wrong to force me to be involved with this, risking my families health, you bet. Today the WHO, who you guys love, states that if you get cancer your best survival chance is in the USA.

JustAThought - Who cares what your numbers say about how many don't have health care. It is NOT the governments responsibility to provide it for each American.

It is NOT my responsibility to provide it for them either. Nor is it yours.

The correct terminology is:

I N D I V I D U A L R E S P O N S I B I L I T Y

Maybe if liberals tried it on for size, it might fit well. Instead you want the government to become totally intertwined in each of our lives. I want government OUT of my life!! I do not want them to control anything although I realize that medicaid and social security will be in my life at some point (if it's not bankrupt) but if I had my druthers, I would provide my own choice for SS money. I'd make much more of a return without government involvement.

I did my time in the military... and that was about all the government I could stand for 4 years. Why you liberals want more government is absolutely mind boggling!

Annette, JustAThought, look in btco's first post that's collapsed.

If we weren't trying to give medical aid to 20 million illegal aliens and millions of people to lazy to work, we could take care of the people who have lost their jobs and insurance. If the Gov. would stop being enablers and make people work for a living instead of panhandling for potential votes, our economy would turn around by itself.

obama's way is hurry, hurry, spend,spend now before the sky falls on us chicken little

In the U.S. we have one man one vote, freedom of speech, etc. So I guess people think everyone's opinion is also equal. But not so. Some people are experts, meaning a subject has been their life's study.

So all you yahoos who think the rest of us should take your opinion over people who really know what their talking about, forget it. Try getting a degree in political science, doing some academic reading, and getting information from reliable news (i.e., not FOX), and then come back and post something intelligent with links to a reliable source. At least try to stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.

Thanks. Carry on...

Wouldn't it be better to 1st. read the bill and all it contains to see if this is a good idea and 2nd. wouldn't it also be better to reign in the massive abuse in the medical system as we have watched done with the banking system and so on? How can anyone actually sit around and blog about how good of a deal national health care is when other countries have said point blank it a bad deal. Spain said Cap and Trade in the begginning was a good deal too and then once it passed, catastrophy struck. I believe it is time for all concerned to download a copy of the health care bill and find out just what it costs and what all those "other" items are before just standing up and saying we should have it. look at all the mess created by bills being passed that were not read, the trillions already spend that has caused things to get worse rather than better. Its time to be proactive. Do the work and get a copy of the bill, then decide.

With trillions of dollars being spent giveing it to Americans let them buy their own insurance ,spend directly to doctors . To let these arrogant fools to ration our health care is insane. And people who believe differant are dupes.

justathought08 -

Without reading the original authored by Obama, but just your summation at the beginning as Obama's reaons for this plan, I will state:

What a bunch of lies....As follows:

1. over 50% of personal bankruptcies...that outright lie has been exposed many times...something around 5% of bankruptcies are due to medical bills. Medical bills may be listed as a debt on bankruptcy forms, but are not the cause. Further, the original injury or loss of job is at fault, not medical bills.

2. 100,000 Americans are dying from preventable medical error! Where is that study? The only study I know is one published by the "Institute of Medicine" in 1998, which spoke of a review of hospitals in New York state in 1984, now some 25 years ago...two doctors reviewed old charts...the review was not specific to specialty reviewed, and the two doctors agreed on only 10% of the "hospital caused deaths." No question that some such deaths occur...but consider what they would call a hospital caused death...a patient with lung cancer for 2 years cannot breathe at home, weighs now 90 pounds, is put on a respirator, develops pneumonia after 2 weeks and dies a week later. That was called a hospital caused death. So...where is the study to support Obama's ooutrageous premise? Please quote it for us.

3. 45 million without insurance and without health care. Many posts on these blogs have dissected this 45 million figure, subtracted illegals, etc., and find only 5-6 million without health INSURANCE. But to state that 45 million are without health CARE is an outright lie...one problem with this assertion is that anyone can walk into an emergency room and receive care...

4. To state that our current system leads to decreased capacity to deal with pandemics and bioterrorism??? How?
And how would this new program do ANYTHING to address that?

The estimates of savings from electronic records are grossly overstated; further, their disadvantages in some areas has been written about as well.

Of course, the 20 to 40 cents of each medical dollar spent on defensive medicine and malpractice insurance premiums was not "cured" by Obama's plan, and he specifically failed to put a stop to this assault on American patients and doctors, promising he would do so to the AMA and then flip-flopping, as he is a lawyer himself and supported by the trial lawyer industry.

I have lots of comments on your proposed solutions, but this post is just to expose the absurdity of the claims made by Obama.

OUShark...Stop smoking dope and get the story straight....Democrap's want the Government, lawyers and the unions to make the decisions and the GOP want the Doctors and patient...It is so funny how you Liberals have to Lie or re-write history to try and sell your sorry points...The American Tax payer is finally seeing ObamaNation for the snake oil salesman he is!!!!!!!!!!!!

Folks:

Health care in this country costs 2 trillion dollars per year. This is around $6,500.00/person/year. These costs have been rising and will continue to rise much faster than the cost of living, and at a time when even prior to the recession we were making less money year on year for a decade or more. Obviously this can not continue in this way, especially with the huge numbers of people who do not have health care.

To jamb your boot heels into the ground and stop the inevitable requirement to reform the entire concept of health related business in this country is to be wishin' for them good ol' days. The fact is that there were only a few years when health care made much sense in this country, maybe from around 1960 until 1985. The system prior to this was for some pretty countryfied doctorin' and the system prior has sprouted wings in the abilities to provide good outcomes for what previously were death sentences in many diseases, however not everyone can afford these outcomes, or even regular basic health insurance.

Like most things that are very divisive these days it comes down to what we may be able to do, not what we wish would happen. Wishing is the domain of children. Please stop wishing and join the adult table to discuss what must be done to endure.

Good Luck!

why only focus on the repubs who don`t want this ? what about all the dems that don`t ?

A point that should be made, wtoc. Why is Obama so worried about criticizing his GOP opponents? He's got a strong majority in house and senate. He doesn't need Republican votes.

Obama and Dems want Repblican votes so when the plan is a flop, they can say "Well, the Republicans voted for it also."

Ive got some q tip and asprin i will sell for $5.00 each...and takers??

In the government plan they'll give you that aspirin for $2.00 but you will have to wait a week to get it.

You are right Clarlynn. The insurance company does get involved in the mix. This is what many people do not realize.

Yes indeed if we were only as smart as you guys! The evil profit, that concept that makes a provider want to do a good job so their practice will thrive. Do you know who the best physician is in your area? Are they hurting for business. Does the insurance company funnel people away from them? Do they see more patients than the less capable providers in your area? What is a reasonable fee for their service, how much should they make annually? Has it ever occurred to you that if they don't make enough money they might choose to do something else as they are certainly bright enough to do other things. Yeah, that profit motive is evil. Take profit out of the equation and see how the service changes, any bets on what direction it will go?

The current system is shameful and needs to be turned upside down until what matters is what the patients and doctors decide.

So what happens to the person with a condition that statistically has little chance of success with the recommended procedure? Will the not for profit government program give them a blank check? Or send them home with pain pills.

Carlos...profit is one thing greed is another....

And who determines the cutoff point, Robert Perkins?

Robert, I object to the scoundrels who infest our government characterizing people who actually do something constructive as greedy. The vilification of one group by another are the tactics of those with less than honorable motives. The bigger question is what is the cutoff for profit and greed and who determines it? The consumer or the government. My 15 min lunch is over, I need to get back to profiting seeing patients.

Robert believes that the government should decide. Greedy politicians should draw the line between profit and greed.

rather a greedy politician that can be voted out of office then a greedy unnamed unaccountable health care company CEO!

"...rather a greedy politician that can be voted out of office"

Like Pelosi, Kennedy, McCain and others on both sides of the aisle.

Neither party has our best interests at heart. They have both spent like drunken sailors and show NO sign of changing there self serving, politics as usual, ways. Even when faced with a financial crisis of the likes we have never seen before. When ones find themselves in a deep hole, the prudent stop digging! Politicians are addicts, addicted to pork and big business money. If there mouth is moving you can bet they are lying. With a 12% approval rating last election, we had an opportunity to vote them all out of office last election but 96% were reelected. The "my congressman is ok, it's all the others that are the problem" syndrome was, as always, in play. These politicians need to loose there job! They are responsible for the state of this country. The American people have gotten the Government that they deserve. Next election, vote against all incumbents, or look in the mirror to see the real problem. The only ones that benefits from Americans being divided are the politicians. We are screwed.

Carlynn, I agree with you about the insurance companies are screwing us in the A$$ without vaseline...that hurts. It's not my doctor that I'm worried about, but the insurance companies as to if they are going to pay for surgeries that are life threatening such as as a busted gallbladder or an aneurym. It's crazy for me to think that the government is going to come between me and my doctor, I want to cut out the middle man (Blue Cross, United Healthcare, Aetna, etc) telling me I can't have that (examples) gallbladder surgery or catch the aneurysm in time before I clock out for good. If the insurance don't pay I have to come out of my pocket over $26000 for intervention and I've paid my deductible/co-pay/the hospital stay, all the medical supplies, etc. It's madness on the way these insurance companies are continuing to dump on hard working Americans and nickel and dime us every step of the way to help us to live to see another day. The bottom line is the insurance companies don't care because they've already sucked the life out of you financial for their game and they will say...what was that person's name again and move to the next victim.

Wrong. Depends upon the insurance you buy. There are a cornucopia of plans offered by insurance companies to the individuals. Even to many companies, they may be offered 2 or 3 group plans to choose from. There little choice for companies with under 25 employees.

A simplified version goes like this Emergency only, Emergency with MSA, HMO (basic), HMO plus/premium, and PPO. They run from least expensive to most expensive. Each has a range of cost / benefit trade-offs.

HMO (basic) is the most common and most often means you are stuck in a managed succession of treatment from least expensive to greatest expense, and must always go to the primary first to be refered to a high level. These often don't permit stepping out of the network for treatment.

HMO premium/plus plans will allow out of network treatment and some choice to non-generic drugs

PPO - I can go directly to any provider I need to. I just pay a higher price for out-of-network services. I was floored when an insurance agent told me that a PPO actually can cost less than than some HMO plans. Why? I can skip all the steps that insure the lowest cost treatment straight to the correct/best treatment. The reality is, that if you get the correct/best treatment for an accident or medical issue, your recovery is much stronger.

5 1/2 years ago I had a major asthma attack. Never had realized I had any asthma issue. The Hospital was a pioneer for newer treatment methods. The doctor required me to get a strong long term asthma inhaler for one month. My insurance blocked paying for it because that was against protocal. I paid for it and followed treatment.

3 months later I had another severe asthma attach, I would have left the hospital except they treated me traditionally not like the other hospital. They told me I would need to be on the long term astham inhaler the rest of my life. This did not add up with the previous experience.

My wife and I did research during and after my stay. We discovered that lungs 3-6 months with support to heal fully without a new incident. The insurance didn't want to pay, but my doctor stepped in and my insurance did pay some. By month 5, I weaned myself off the inhaler and visited may respiratory specialist for testing at month 6. I waited until after the testing to tell him I hadn't been on the inhaler. He agreed that I did not need the inhaler and to keep his number just in case. I normally only need to maintain allergy medication. I have had only 3 minor issues with astha in 5 years.

The government health insurance appears to be the most autocratic HMO with the highest deductible anyone has and stepping outside the plan will probably be not permitted, just as in other countries. This plan should be abandoned for something that helps people and does not trap them.

Clarlynn,

It will be much better when politicians make the decisions won't it!!

The government can't run even lately the transportation system.

The government can't run even lately the transportation system.

Its probably underfunded. If they just had more money and time they could straighten it out. You non believing trouble maker! Just go along with the government at least this government, these guys are good its the other guys you need to watch out for they messed it up, my guys had their heads up their butts and didn't have a clue what was going on but now they have thier heads out and up and they are on the job! The government no matter what party is in power is a reflection of the partisan party's, corrupt and inefficient and worst of all self serving.

Yep, that's the Democrat standard line: "We need more money and more time."

The fact that they've acccomplished nothing with the money and time they've had is irrelevant. "We have to spend money to keep from going bankrupt," as Joe Biden told AARP last week.

Come to think of it, I'm going to try it. More credit cards, more borrowing, more spending, and if a creditor questions me I'll simply say, "I'm doing it to keep from going bankrupt."

Mel, what's the best run government program in the country? National Defense? Yes! How much is the budget? $500 billion? I'd love to see that budget in some of the other areas of government, then we'll see how they do.

Mel, the Democrat system will stop the costs too, but at a cost to the individuals, life, limb, libery, and prosperity. The amazing thing is the poll questions follow what McConnell says, but people don't listen, because they believe the democrats and news media who demonize anything the looks, or moves like a republican.

I've been putting this question out. For people. Who is the accuser? Satan or God? It's answer time. Satan is the one who accuses, not God.

The accusation here is that our insurance system is unrepariable. The truth is we haven't done anything to repair it. Instead we are going to beat it into the ground and demand more of it. When it has fully collapsed from the beating, then the government will save us? More likely we will fade into insignificant dead beat debtors by then.

Seems that Michelle is leading the horses now. No more tomatoes, vegetables garden, just personal involvement in policies.

libran12, what do you think about President Bush. Did you notice the way he walked into a room? Manybe you did not notice because he belong to your political party.

Yup. libran12 works in the mental health field. He cleans up them bedpans and mops the floor real good!

Having lived with a true narcissist - experiencing all the immature me-first temper tantrums and general rage - I submit to you that Obama does not suffer from that personality disorder. If people can't say anything else nice about him, one great quality he does have is his composure. Is his ego a bit inflated? Certainly. That's a trait of most politicians. But narcissim is something entirely different and I've never seen anything remotely resembling what you describe.

He is indeed a narcissit. And a tad paranoid. This Stalin with a law degree.

JHM - and what did you call Bush?

Neither party has our best interests at heart. They have both spent like drunken sailors and show NO sign of changing there self serving, politics as usual, ways. Even when faced with a financial crisis of the likes we have never seen before. When ones find themselves in a deep hole, the prudent stop digging! Politicians are addicts, addicted to pork and big business money. If there mouth is moving you can bet they are lying. With a 12% approval rating last election, we had an opportunity to vote them all out of office last election but 96% were reelected. The "my congressman is ok, it's all the others that are the problem" syndrome was, as always, in play. These politicians need to loose there job! They are responsible for the state of this country. The American people have gotten the Government that they deserve. Next election, vote against all incumbents, or look in the mirror to see the real problem. The only ones that benefits from Americans being divided are the politicians. We are screwed.

libran12,

Since the accusation of President Obama being a narcissist, I thought this article might be of interest to some posters on here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/22/101516/45

What seems counterintuitive to me, however, are the myriad claims on the part of Conservatives of President Obama’s being an "elitist:"

http://mediamatters.org/research/200905070031

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/22/AR2008082202958.html

Either way, both claims would appear to be somewhat nonsensical.

Clintus,

First the article with the shrink has 2 problems.

1) It was published on the Dailykos.

2) The Dr. plainly states that he despises Bush. It is almost a hatred. He can not give a fair call with his psychosis.

Also, how much are the taxpayers paying for his weekly motorcades and additional security details for him to go to Ray's Hell Burger and other burger joints so he can have a photo op so he can say he is an average Joe? Personally I could care less what kind of mustard he uses. I am more concerned with how much of our money he is blowing.

"If this was such a great deal, why does Odumba have to be on TV everyday selling it? It should stand on it's own! If you're not fighting this and all the other govt takeover legislation, you'll get what you deserve, a solcialist/communist way of life."

If our current healthcare system is so good, then why are other countries not rushing to change to our system? No one can ever answer that question. I ask my friends and people I meet that oppose healthcare reform and I never get an answer, just some crap about socialism and "It's my money, why should I pay for those lazy illegals and welfare people who won't work to get healthcare through their jobs".

What is interesting is that most of these people have healthcare through there employeer and seem to think that a job means health insurance. Many, many companies small and large do not offer, and can not afford to offer, health insurance or any other benefits.

So I ask again: If healthcare run for profit is so good for the PEOPLE, then why our we the only major nation that uses such a system as the main source of healthcare? Don't you think if healthcare in those other countries was really as bad as the fear mongers would have you believe, that the PEOPLE in those countries would be asking their government to ditch the public system?

Handel, yea we might as well bring Georg Bush back as president. Are you kidding? If we wait for the Republican to approve anything the Democrates proposals nothing will get done. Wake up and drink some coffee.

If you will pay $10 a pop for asprin,,,ive got a whole bottle to sell you

If you will pay $10 a pop for asprin,,,ive got a whole bottle to sell you

Um dont go to the ER for a headache?

You do not have to eliminate it, you can govern it. That is what they were elected for, to govern the private sector, not eliminate it and replace it with their own version.

Politicians do what you were elected for, stop conceding so much power to one person, that is what our country is about.

And so, Bartman, you want politicians and bureaucrats to make the decisions, not doctors and patients, right? That is the trade we're being offered. Some bureaucrat will decide (as Secretary Sebelius basically stated yesterday) what treatment you "really need" and if you're too old, or too far gone with your condition, to warrant the expenditure. How is that an advantage? Why are people so trusting of politicians and bureaucrats? Why are they so convinced that putting all this power into the hands of politicians and bureaucrats is preferable to simply improving the current system? ONCE THE LAWS ARE PASSED AND THE SYSTEM IS IN PLACE, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO REVERSE IT. I think this whole idea warrants serious consideration and taking the time to make sure we don't create a monster that we cannot control. Sometimes doing nothing is preferable, especially when the option is to do the wrong thing.

That's why people come here from all over the world: their governments have told them "no" or "wait" for what they need done. So they come here and pay for the treatments rather than rely on the decisions of their governments.

Please provide us proof and statistics of the "people come here from all over the world: their governments have told them "no" or "wait" for what they need done." You wouldn't just make stuff up, would you? LOL

So you support eliminating the private sector health care plans..........

Look at the Massachusetts mandatory Health Care Plan. You have to wait 50 days before you can see a Doctor. Due to the rising cost, they are now restricting the coverage that Legal Immigrates (That paid into the system) can receive........

What Government run social program has decreased in cost to the taxpayer???????

I am questioning how you can say"health care system where patients and doctors make the decisions," without addressing the current broken system where that is not the case?

Bartman...here's a link since you asked for one

well, so much for that, I guess they edit out links. Bartman...if you really want to know about socialized medicine and rationing do a google search of NHS denial of kidney cancer drugs. You'll see that the NHS has denied multiple drugs for patient's with kidney cancer because they are deemed too expensive. Please note, this is not an isolated case, but a policy instituted by the UK's NHS.

And so, Bartman, you want politicians and bureaucrats to make the decisions, not doctors and patients, right? That is the trade we're being offered.

no its not.

As it stands, some bureaucrat stands between you and your doctor. Except that THIS bureaucrat works for a private insurance provider and makes sure to skim some $$ off the top before providing for your care...

That is the ONLY difference.

Some bureaucrat will decide (as Secretary Sebelius basically stated yesterday) what treatment you "really need" and if you're too old, or too far gone with your condition, to warrant the expenditure.

Um, that's EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS NOW (except again, they skim off the top first). People are denied coverage or dropped from coverage when they get sick all the time!

ONCE THE LAWS ARE PASSED AND THE SYSTEM IS IN PLACE, IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO REVERSE IT.

probably. Nothing wrong with that though. The only reason one won't be able to remove it is because it might work. If the people are not satisfied with their new healthcare, they will vote to remove it.

Face it, you're scared that a public option might work...

well, so much for that, I guess they edit out links. Bartman...if you really want to know about socialized medicine and rationing do a google search of NHS denial of kidney cancer drugs. You'll see that the NHS has denied multiple drugs for patient's with kidney cancer because they are deemed too expensive. Please note, this is not an isolated case, but a policy instituted by the UK's NHS

well then, i suppose it's a good thing that NO ONE (in power at least) is suggesting we adopt a healthcare system even remotely close to that of the UK...

Bartman,

Are you for real? I have never been to a doctor and told "Let me check with the insurance company and I'll get back to you". I make the appointment and see the doc within 48 hours and they check me out and tell me what to do and I do it. No insurance company, no nothin!!

You're just talkin to defend your boy in the Oval Office!!

Maybe you go to the ER with a hangnail so they want to make you wait in order for you to figure out for yourself that there's nothing wrong with you!!

First, Larry, this is a Republic, not a democracy. And the way it's actually supposed to work is that the Federal government operates within the specific, enumerated powers defined in the Constitution of the United States. That's why the document was written. There is nothing in the Constitution about parties or "compromise" regarding those powers.

Unfortunately, too many people have no idea of either the content of that document, nor of the reasonings that went into writing it. They think that it is obsolete (because it was written by "a bunch of old, dead white guys" or that it is a "living document." Wrong on both counts.

The Founders had lived through the consequences of a powerful central government, and knew the dangers of it, so they deliberately limited the powers of the federal government in favor of the States and the individual. Unfortunately, it seems, too many people want to give up their liberty in exchange for some misguided hope of security. As Ben Franklin said, "They will have and deserve neither."

This is not a "whining." It's a warning that once we give up liberty to the government, we will not get it back.

"The end objective of all government is the accumulation of power." Gaetano Mosca

Guarantee of "existence" is what they'll have, rather than the guarantee of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Thanks for the comment.

Right on Bobby Charles 1....you got it right!

"What ever Health Plan they Pass we must insist Congress is covered by the same plan.

Don't let congress have one plan for the people and another plan for themselves ...

The only fair plan would be one that congress and Obama have to use too."

What say you AC Robertson?

You think of Bozo when you see Mr. Steele? Who do you think of when you see President Obama? You better get back to your comic books and let us adults discuss some important isues. By the way, are you allowed to vote?

HITLER !

If he thinks of Bozo then he is defiantly old enough to vote. He hasn't been around for years and years.

Kinda like when I see Obama I see Homie da Clown or Curious George.

when you finally get sick because you didn't catch it early enough, it will be a pre-existing condition and won't be covered.

I think this sort of thing happens on BOTH sides of the aisle. It's disingenuous at best (an outright lie at worst) to suggest that the Dems are the only ones getting money from insurance companies or trial lawyers.

Fred appl, when you say spending money that we do not have, you are not making sense. Let me start by saying that it is all about priorities. If we had to fight another war in a different front, all of a sudden money would appear. In fact you may be willing to pay higher taxes to fight that war. I think it has to do with priorities. You do not want to pay for any ones health insurance plan other than your own. A little selfish, but true. I know the trueth hurts.

The truth doesn't hurt, if I'm spending a buck I want to know where it's going, how it's to be used and that I'm getting the biggest bang for that buck that I've worked very hard for. Taxes represent my money. There is no such thing as free lunch. And by the way, the Feds don't have the money, but they will, and guess who they're going to get it from? Just who are these poor retched few that we're going to save, would someone give me examples please? What happened to the philosophy of hand up and not hand out?

That means he is lying!

No, actually he is in favor of a combined public and private plan.

You are so easily foolded. Once in place, the private companies won't be able to compete with the tax-payer subsidized plans, putting them out of business. So, before long, everyone will be on the gov. plan.

As soon as you have to try to get health care out of a "private company" for a pre-existing condition for a member of your family, tell us how wonderful they are

As soon as you're denied under a nationalized program because you're too old, or because your condition is deemed "too advanced to treat," or you're told the waiting list for something as basic as a MRI is six months, tell us how great that system is.

The above are actual issues in other countries with nationalized health care systems, as cited on Meet the Press even by David Gregory (as well as by Senator McConnel) yesterday (19 July 2009). I was surprised he dared bring these things up to Secretary Sebelius who, by the way, did not deny these things would happen here, but only contended they already do happen.

So, what's the improvement going to be? Apparently, at best, we get more of the same with even less control and more cost.

I am well aware that Obama wants Govenrment run healthcare. He always says the exact opposite of what he is trying to do.

"I don't want to run GM". And that's exactly what he did, take over GM.

"I don't want to run the banks". And that's exactly what he did, take over the banks.

"Now I don't want governement run healthcare." But it's exactly what he wants.

Obubu want's to run the world. All the other leader's in other countries better watch out for this fool. He will take their country over and tear it down and destroy it just like he has AMERICA. Obubu you have to GO.

Right on David M.-295515, your party has been known as the party of big business. The party that thinks government does not have the responsibilty of taking care our less fortunate citizens. The party that believes that citizens should take care of themselfs and the hell with the less fortunate. They believe that there is some thing wrong with anyone that can not take care of themself or family.

What irks the heck out of me is that they call them selfs christians and that they subscribe to the christian principals. This is all hog wash. They would not know what Chrisitan prinicipals were if it bit them on the ass. If Jusus were here on earth know many in the Republican party would call him a socialist or a communist.

The party of the selfish, ME now, Me for ever. Thank God that I have never needed anything from the government, I have been able to take care of myself, myfamily and help others when I could. I try not to be selfish. When I leave this world I can not take it with me. I have taught my sons how to make it in this world, and I have tried to instill in them a sense of responsibility of helping to take care of the less fortunate among us.

I have been a life-time democrat. Let me tell you about a "minor" operation I had. I pay $160.00 a month for insurance (just myself). I have a total of $9000.00 worth of hospital/doctor bills I am still paying, after my insurance company aid $600.00. This was a "possible" malignant operation & it was not something I could postpone.

I raised 2 children by myself without any "government assistance". I am now almost 65 & I have to continue to work in order to pay for my hospital bills.

What are the Republicans offering besides taking money from the lobbyists?