Conspiracy flakes for the Fruit Loops !

What was Cheney doing in Kenya that makes them related that's a hard pill to swallow! I guess that would make the Dubya Really the Queen of Englands Illegitimate child !

Two fkn wars, the worst recession since the great depression, multiple other countries wanting us to fail and the this is what these fkn morons are doing with their time ? Is it any wonder why people are embarrassed to call themselves Republicans ?

It seems the easiest way to resolve the issue once and for all is for the doctor who delivered him to come forward. How hard is that?

And there are GOP senators and congressmen/women going around town believing this tripe......falling in line with these birthers passing resolutions.

I mean really.

I want to know what the constituents of these birthers in suits have to say about the people they've elected.

Are you serious?? Obama is in his late 40's!! What chance do you think the doctor who delivered him is still alive? I'm only a couple of years older than Obama and the doctor who delivered me died long ago.

maybe he is listed as MUSLIM on the certificate or something. he is hiding something, but what?

Even if he was...who CARES! Bush is not a muslim and he damaged/destroyed the country more than any foreign attack or power ever has.

Wait a minute. WAIT A MINUTE!!! Maybe he's really a martian and he's the lead scout for an invasion from outer space!!!

You people REALLY need to GET........ A .......... GRIP!!!!

It seems the easiest way to resolve the issue once and for all is for the doctor who delivered him to come forward. How hard is that?

Why? How much proof do you need? How ridiculous does this have to get for you to be satisf ... wait, NO amount of proof is enough! My bad. Fanaticism knows no boundaries.

maybe obama doesn't want to SHOW his birth certificate because he is really not BLACK? maybe he is ARAB? maybe he is listed as MUSLIM on the certificate or something. he is hiding something, but what?

We've SEEN the birth certificate. The original stays on file, by law. The copies, as certified true by the State of Hawaii, are available all over the Internet. What does it take to crack those cinderblock heads of yours?

what do Hawaii birth reports say about his grandmother in KENYA who says he was born THERE? time to throw another grandma under the bus?

And this has been debunked, over and over and over again. The entire claim rests on grandmother getting tangled up in her English translation. Once she understood the question, she said quite clearly that he was not born in Kenya. Just find the entire transcript (not the little snippets that Limbaugh and Dobbs are trumpeting) and see for yourself.

Maybe the Republicans can spend their politician to ethics training instead of worry about certificates. Sanford and Ensign used thousands or our money for sexcapades and are still serving with a smile. Repub hypocrites love to point the other way. I am sure this birther issue is sooooooo important that it is torturing everyone..whoops that was Bush.

The Asian lady that checked the "birth certificate" is obviously a Democrat or maybe the stimulus finally reached Hawaii. Why don't they actually "show" it to the attorney's that are debating the originality of the perpetual "birth certificate"? Why is this "one" lady given the "final" word????? All we are seeing are copies. The attorney's want to see the "original".....To be continued!

When did the Republican party become the party of lunatics?

Loudmouth,

What happens if the attorney that wants to look at it is the daughter or son of illegal immigrants with affiliations to Chavez (that fellow from Venezuela)? Would you still approve.

BTW...what difference does her nationality make? Or do you want to check her birth certificate also?

I believe the big eared Obama is a citizen. The birth notices are not proving anything. Shoeless Joe was proven innocent. He still did not play again.

I hear he has another birth certificate that says he is Sir Edmond Hillary

This is old news.

The Department of Health Director made this exact confirmation months ago.

Here's the deal: no matter what anyone says about the validity of Obama's Birth Certificate, he's the President and that's that - I guarantee it.

You think his birth certificate is filed only in one location within the numerous state departments? I can't believe how stupid some of you sound, his an American citizen get over it....

donotsteal

Only if we throw you first ......

Look it up, on the Internet there a group out there will pay 25 million for Obama birth certificate if it was Me I would show it and laugh all the way to the bank, would you?

The Asian lady that checked the "birth certificate" is obviously a Democrat

How many thing can one group get wrong. It was reported back when they verified he was a citizen that indeed the lady is a Republican. Truth that dispute wild dtupid accusations is always greeted with wild idiotic bs since there are no facts.

fact the Kenyan who was reported to have said he was born there did not say that. She refuted it on at least two occasions after she read that she had said it. Second it is not his grandmother it is his step granmother. third he has nothing to do with showing any document held by the state of Hawaii and is not withholding anything. The state of Hawaii just like my state does not release those records unless you are entitled to see them.

I see spme of the nut cases are complaining that Obama has spent wild amounts of money on court cases involving this. These are the same people castigating the media in defense of Ms Palin because she has incurred similar expenses in her defense of allegations against her..........

Not a citizen is just the rant of the desparately ignorant.

It is beyond comprehension how this "birther" nonsense is still out there when the certificate has been validated by MANY credible sources. And worse, there is actual footage of congressional members pandering to this fringe. Unbelievable.

Oh well, it only confirms why I left the Republican Party....

I think Republicans are suffering from cranial-rectal inversion, the direct result of a massive election defeat in November of 2008.

Keep asking the same questions all you like. That won't make you any less of a loser.

Love these aholes that sign up on the Vine to promote their wacko agenda. This time 'World' shows up, another nut, set loose on the net. These people are so bizarre, their beliefs unfounded, their anger beyond reason, so much so, I find them to be dangerous and a threat to all of society. Are they fanatics or just sore losers? I would err on the side of caution and lock people like this up for psychological testing.

President Obama is ignoring all of this nonsense for two reasons:

1. It is simply too funny for words and he can't bear to stop it.
2. Because the GOP is finding the birthers VERY inconvenient. They make the GOP look NUTTY. The GOP prefers their whack-jobs to be nice and quiet but the birthers just won't shut up.

"These people are so bizarre, their beliefs unfounded, their anger beyond reason, so much so, I find them to be dangerous and a threat to all of society."

OMG - this is just too true. It does frighten me to see people like this - they are so worked up, so CONVINCED that there is some awful conspiracy going on that they keep spewing out crap like this. Geeze, even the most radical leftists were never this bad about Bush.

I can remember all too well those who supported Bush kept saying, "you don't like it? LEAVE!" Anyone not on Bush's side was UNAMERICAN. Wow.

Now they lost their grip on power and they just cannot stand it. The voters decided they wanted no more of the kind of "leadership" Bush provided and McCain promised to continue. (How I just shudder to think of what crap he and Palin would have pulled)

"Why he doesn't show his birth certificate? Because its not frickin required. Its not in the U.S. Constitution that one must show his bc.. Get over it folks. Hawaii haws TWICE confirmed that he was born in America, that is good enough for me.."

It is required that a President of these here United States is a natural born citizen. His family, brother, relatives all say they were there when he was born in Kenya - calling them all liars? They have no reason to, they should be proud of him or NOT? I'm sure they would take offense. Hawaii just got themselves in a pickle because they are lying and just like Roger Clemens, must stand by what they said because they were too stupid to tell the truth the first time around. Why in the world will they not show it and prove everyone else is wrong? BECAUSE THEY LIED JUST LIKE OBAMA LIED - THERE IS NO HOPE OR CHANGE FOR THE BETTER - OH WAIT, IT WAS FOR THE WORST!!!!!! Maybe he didn't lie.

Even if they WERE to produce the doctor who caught him, Lou Dobbs and his brainless Birfer Army wouldn't accept that, either.

This thing has gone into critical mass and is running on a sustained reaction, just like Chernobyl.

The Birfer's moth-eaten minds are made up, don't confuse them with facts.

Nope, we'd like to think so but nope, Barack Obama's skin is still black so he can't be legally elected President of the United States.

No it sure won't settle it. The issue is his citizenship not his place of birth!

The fact remains that he was legally adopted by an Indonesian which voids ALL other citizenship including Dual citizenship & birth certificates and makes him an Indonesian legally. He had a Ford Scholarship at Occidental and his entrance application states in ink and in his handwriting that he claimed to be an Indonesian. To acquire a Ford Scholarship the main requirement is that only foreign students qualified and that they present a foreign passport which he did and it was Indonesian.

His color has no bearing on the facts.

Max Black ----- Obama did NOT show his 'LIVE' birth certificate which in Hawaii is different then the birth certificate he produced. The birth certificate he produced says he was born and it was issued in Hawaii, not necessarily that he was born in Hawaii, just that a certificate was issued in Hawaii that he was born. (Hawaii's strange law at that period of time. Our children were born in Hawaii over 30 years ago and our Certificates of birth and 'LIVE' birth are QUITE different than what he produced.

All speculation would be quickly eliminated if Obama would simply release a copy of his long form birth Certificate.  He is causing all of these problems; release the document and the problem goes away.  It seems like a very simple solution.  By the way McCain had the left saying the same thing about his eligibility.  He very quickly released his birth certificate.  Where is the Birth Certificate??

President Obama will never satisfy the conspiracy theorists who don't believe he is a citizen of the United States, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Monday, "because for 15 dollars you can get an Internet address and say whatever you want."

In the most impassioned part of his daily press briefing, Gibbs insisted that there was no way to put the so-called "birther" issue to rest.

"The God-honest truth is no," he said. "And I almost hate to indulge in such an august setting as the White House briefing room, and I mean this seriously, discussing the made up, fictional, nonsense of whether or not the president was born in this country. A year and a half ago I asked that the birth certificate be put on the Internet because lord knows if you have a birth certificate and put it on the Internet, what else could be the story?"

"Nothing will assuage them," the press secretary added. "But there are 10,000 more important issues for people in this country to discuss."

"Like violations of the constitution," longtime White House correspondent Helen Thomas interjected. Gibbs ignored her.

Isn't this like declaring that the Earth is round....again?

What kind of simians believe this stuff anyway?

iceman (hhhmehhhh) you make a great point...the birthers are making the republican party look even more like the party of ultra right wing wacko nut case conspiracy theorists who are so wound up in their hateful and unfounded rhetoric that they cannot and will not see the truth.

it's a complete waste of time trying to reason with these people....it's like discussing evolutionary biology with a creationist or atmospheric physics with a AWG denier or any of a number of religious cults....people whose minds are bound up in dogma are living in a bubble, not connected to reality.

I think the question is again - they are saying "vital records" which we all have when we go to the doctor. That's NOT a birth certificate.

Additionally he provided a certificate of live birth when he was pressed.

This is my question to those who are haranguing others with honest questions about Obama's location of birth: If he wasn't afraid of something, why did they get the courts to SEAL his birth record? There is a tangible reason to see his birth certificate - the bills he signs into law affect us and he (via the government) gets those taxes we pay.

If they will physically show his birth certificate (not certificate of live birth - given to any baby not still born, even if they die at a young age), I think that will truly stop the questioning of all interested in it. These comments of "we checked the vital records" and "here's a certificate of live birth" (which - in case you haven't noticed, MSNBC is erroneously calling the same as a birth certificate), don't wash.

Do I want him to be a legit president? - even if I disagree with his politics (as I have all presidents who have served while I've been alive), yes, I do. If he's not, there are too many ramifications that affect all of us.

We've SEEN the birth certificate. The original stays on file, by law. The copies, as certified true by the State of Hawaii, are available all over the Internet. What does it take to crack those cinderblock heads of yours?

No sir, we haven't - we have seen a certificate of live birth. These can be given to anyone even if they are not born in the state they get them from. As long as you're alive, you can get one.

And unless Hawaii has different laws, they are not allowed to have these certificates online due to fraud and security issues. No one would be allowed to access them just for a joyride. Also, if you think they were that accessible, do you think that people would be filing lawsuits and asking for Freedom of Information Act (FOIA's) to get into them? (answer is no).

Please don't be that naive - unless you like the worry that all your personal info is that easily accessible.

The main-stream media's got its biases; that's for sure! This does nothing to solve the problem. It just shows problems with freedom of the press when that same press works to cover its own ass over its irresponsibility, or continues to show treasonous bias, on top of the irresponsibility. Citizens have to suffer and deal with it. Why does the article lie about the position of "birthers"? Why does it attempt to prejudice an important group, claiming "Birthers contend that Obama's birth certificate is a fake, and many say he was actually born in Kenya, his father's homeland. They've challenged his citizenship in court." What about the Constitution? What about how we already saw these documents, but they're not enough?

When he shows the long-form certificate, I will be satisfied I was not tricked as a voter, including by the AP and main-stream media, but I still think the issue of what Passport he used to go to Pakistan has merit, besides other related matters. However, if we get better proof Obama was born in the USA, e.g. his birth certificate showing hospital name and attending physician, at least voters were properly informed at the "D" level, or better, rather than the "F" level by their "free press." If the "free press" tries to make those who argue for Article II, Section 1 look like those who believe in UFOs, it's acting treasonous, and it needs correction! Freedom of the press does not mean it's free to be irresponsible or worse and then cover its own behind on top of it! On the contrary, it means voters and citizens deserve to be properly, and respectfully, informed.

I bet all of the birthers thought the X-Files was a true documentary series.

Hillary Clinton's good friend, the former PA Attorney General, looked into this. This gentlmen worked hard and has a lot of interesting questions but every time he tried to do something he was turned away and rejected. Every court order was turned down. He even took it to the Supreme Court and they didn't even give him a chance. This guy has some very good points. If this guy couldn't do it what makes you think a regular person can find the truth?

So many people protect Obama and I don't know why. Look at how the MSM is protecting him now with the comments he made about the police. Obama should be ashamed for saying that the police acted stupidly without even knowing the facts. What a fool.

The Governor of Hawaii once again states Obama's birth certificate is real:

"I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," she said in a brief statement. "I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago."

Does anyone see anywhere in this statement that the Governor specifically states that she has viewed a long form birth certificate?

The reason I ask is because Hawaii had three different types of birth certificates in 1961 - one of which was provided when the child of American parents was born on foreign soil.

Two of these types of birth certificates are the short form birth certificate.

HOWEVER!

If Obama was born in a hospital, in Hawaii, in 1961, then according to Government law, the hospital was required to submit a long form hospital birth record. The state has the right to utilize their own long form document - however, the government dictates that a long form must be submitted by the hospital or mid-wife.

This from http://birthdocs.us/

A birth certificate is a vital record that documents the birth of a child.

The certificate is stamped or signed by the registrar or other custodian of birth records, who is commissioned by the government.

It is the responsibility of the mother's physician , midwife , or a hospital administrator to prepare the official birth certificate and file it with the appropriate government agency .

The actual certificate is usually stored with some government office, although the parents of the child and later the child itself are authorized to obtain certified copies or representations of the original birth certificate, which can be used to apply for government benefits, such as passports.

Governor Fukino of Hawaii has stated that she has personally seen an verified Obama's "original birth certificate according to policies and procedures." According to the law, this document should be a long form birth certificate.

How come no one ever mentions the fact that it doesn't matter where he was born. His mother was a US Citizen which makes him a natural born US Citizen anyway. Natural born does not mean born on US soil. He did not have to take a test to become a citizen by virtue of his mothers' citizenship therefore he is a natural born American.

"Maybe the Republicans can spend their politician to ethics training instead of worry about certificates. Sanford and Ensign used thousands or our money for sexcapades and are still serving with a smile. Repub hypocrites love to point the other way. I am sure this birther issue is sooooooo important that it is torturing everyone..whoops that was Bush. "

Yeah, because we know the Dem's are so much better in that regard. Their guys Jefferson, Murtha and rangel would never stoop to such things. Wait, they have done as bad or worse, my bad.....

I find it funny how "birthers" are presenting sound reasonable questions, and all anybody who supports Obama (Blindly I might add) simply says that anyone who questions the validity of Obama's right to be president is an idiot or UFO believer. I for one did some research on the matter and I found that the more I find the more I believe one of two things. 1) Either he was born in Kenya, or 2) There is something else he wants to hide, possibly about the fact that when he and his mother moved to Indonesia they gave up their American citizenship (A fact that is irrefutable since at that time Indonesia refused to give dual citizenship, plus he went to a public school there, and you have to have Indonesian citizenship in order to attend.) Even Indonesia has acknowledged that he in fact went to public school there, so in this case he would have to re-apply to become an American citizen. Therefore, Under Article II of the Constitution he is not eligible to be president. Please Someone tell me how this has escaped the news media.

Another thing is why people are collapsing comments that are legitimate questions and obvious facts. Take World-1242721 Comment # 1.31 instead of trying to rebuttal people in argument collapsing it and trying to hide it. Funny, huh?

Another thing is that why the media is portraying this as strictly Republican thing there are numerous Democrats and Independents as well asking for his Birth Certificate.

Also if he doesn't present it soon, he is going to have a real problem on his hand as there are lot people in the military who support this theory because they are refusing to listen to any orders given by Obama (since they feel he is qualified to be president as well) he is going to have show it to prove to people in the military or he will end up court marshalling roughly half of the military.

If one person on this vine who thought I was nut would provide more evidence than here say and document that don't mean crap on the internet. I would be more inclined to dismiss this theory but all I see are people insulting other people like children being condescending pricks, like they are fore some reason more high and mighty and more intellectual because they blindly believe anything our POTUS tells them. Regardless if he turns out to be eligible or not, I believe there is something he is hiding.

When you really have NOTHING to say bad about someone, you lay in the woods for the least little thing one say or do, and blow wide open. It's a shame that this man has had to deal with this and other smear tactics from the republicans, to hide what alot of voters have FINALLY figured out.....YOUR PARTY IS FULL OF IT!!!. The people have tuned yall out, largely because of the unilateral support yall threw behind the last jerk in office, and now you have someone, whom is inteligent, world versed, very open to the public, and is trying his butt off to bring dignity back to this country, to get other nations to see us in a different light, instead of bullies trying to get OUR will. Lay off the man please, because everything this man does to move us forward, you have these nuts, wanting to shoot him down, yet these same nutcases, stood behind Bush and his but buddies, for eight years, and had the nerve to tell EVERYONE..."Either you're with us, or against us". Well I say get behind this man, show him that same support to getbthis country back on line, he can't be as bad as the last. who just didn't have a clue on NOTHING, I should know....I served under this jerk.

Ok, I can understand why people might be frustrated with the Republicans regarding this issue, but to be fair, mainstream Republicans DO NOT believe the birthers or the "evidence" they have manufactured. Yes, they are pandering and indulging them by pursuing silly birth certificate bills that will never pass, but most of them want nothing more than to put distance between themselves and fanatical birthers. These people may be conservative republicans, but they are acting outside the mainstream repub party.

Crazy whack jobs, the lot of them.

John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Did anyone from our 21st century security forces, any senator, any congressperson or any Democrat ~ try to stop McCain running for President on the grounds of citizenship?

Let the "birthers" produce their own citizenships for public verification. I want to see all of their original birth certificates and identification, no excuses. So get in line, people.

I really don't give a s__t if Obama is a citizen or not.

But it's amusing to hear libs say they believe the government 100% now.

After all GWB "checked" and "verified" that Saddam was an immanent threat and had WMD's. HE SAW THEM!!! Gee, why don't you just believe him? Congress backed him up!

(This is without bringing in the actual chain of events leading to Iraq - I am just using the perceived chain of events.)

I believe President Obama is an American Citizen. I have not ever questioned that. But I also believe that he was not born in Hawaii either. The reason I say this is because My folks were born at home not in a Hosipital. My dad was born in May 22, 1928 according to the family bible. His folks went to the hospital 5 days later to get a birth Certificate. I belive that President Obama's mother did the exact same thing and this reason was to make sure that if anything were to happen to her he would be safe. . All they are saying is that is their birth certificate but that does not mean he was born here. As I have said I have never questioned that He was an American Citizen. He is our president.

Now for those of you that wonder Why McCain was not held to the same scrutiny is because he was born on a military base and under those condition just like an Embassy that is consider the country's home soil.

BTW I feel that this is splitting fine hairs and a waste of time and energy which should be put to better uses than this. Just two cents from an Independent that did not vote for either party.

Ya know what's funny about these 'birther/bigot' nut jobs....

In a couple of years they are probably going to want their "Terminator Action Hero" Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for president. I just 'betcha'. (sorry about that)

If they had half a brain, they would be trying to get that natural-born rule changed.

Then again ... with half a brain, they might actually go for Palin.

McCain produced every bit of information that was requested of him including his long form birth certificate!!!

The facts are:

1. If Obama was born in a hospital in 1961 the hospital by government law was required to submit a long form hospital birth record. This fact is indisputable and undeniable.

2. Since the hospital was required to submit a long form hospital birth record then the vault copy of Obama's birth certificate would be the long form original. This fact is indisputable and undeniable.

3. Governor Fukino has stated that she has seen and verified Obama's original birth certificate in accordance with policies and procedures. If the document verified by Fukino was a long form birth certificate then Obama was born in a hospital in Hawaii. If the document was not a long form birth certificate, then Obama was not born in a hospital in Hawaii. This fact is indisputable and undeniable.

Resolution? Just provide the long form birth certificate and everything goes away!

There are many of you who say that it wouldn't convince the "birthers" so why bother. I contend that this is an excuse not to provide the document as it is simply a matter of opinion what the outcome would be.

Look, I just want you birthers to prove to me that your birth certificates and identities are not fake!
Just prove to me that they are not fake,
and we will all be happy.

I have my long form certificate - thank you very much!

However, I feel no need to show it to you, or anyone else.

If I were President of the United States, however, I would be happy to provide proof that I am an American citizen, with no allegiance to any other nation.

Backhouse come in from the outhouse !

What in the world are you posting here ??????????

I have a question for all of you saying that all he produced was a Certificate of Live Birth and claiming that all it shows is that he was born. If that's the case, and Barack Obama was actually born in Kenya...I'd like you to produce all of the other Hawaiian Certificates of Live Birth for all other babies born in Kenya. I had no idea that Hawaii was keeping track of these things. And...do they keep Certificates of Live Birth for babies born everywhere else around the world...or just Kenya?

W.............H................A...................T............?????????????

The part that I do not get is how this has any traction when the most vicious and unethical group of people in US history, the Karl Rovers, had a whole year to spin this story if it had even a minor semblance of validity. They had millions of dollars to spend to get it the maximum amount of coverage regardless of the so called "media bias." They tried and tried several times to come up with something, ANYTHING, that would challenge the presidents birth certificate. So right now the birthers are actually trying to tell us that these guys, the most talented group of "swift boater" dirty politics campaigners ever, just dropped the ball on this, when they would have had the election won easily if they would have dropped this bomb on us in August or September and left the Democratic party in shambles? All I ever read is the same posts over and over with the same questions that have been answered hundreds of times. Time for the real republicans to take back their party and stop letting the 10% lunatic fringe speak for 90%!

Michael...I'm assuming that was directed to me. According to the U.S. State Department, the rules for claiming citizenship for a child born outside of the United States to a United States Citizen are here: http://travel.state.gov/law/info/overseas/overseas_703.html

According to the requirements, the documents must state where the child was born. However, according to the birthers, Hawaii is now providing Certificates of Live Birth for these children stating they were born in Hawaii. If that's the case, I just want them to provide me with copies of these Certificates of Live Birth for all of the other babies born on foreign soil saying that they were born in Hawaii.

And...do they keep Certificates of Live birth for babies born everywhere else around the world...or just Kenya?

The hospitals keep the Certificates of Live birth they issued, regardless of the person's place of birth.

Why he doesn't show his birth certificate? Because its not frickin required. Its not in the U.S. Constitution that one must show his bc.. Get over it folks

You mean to tell me that I had to show my birth certificate to play little league baseball and Pop Warner football when I was twelve and the person running the most powerful country in the world doesn't have to show his to get elected??? That's rich...

Look, it's just little old me.

Just prove to me that your certicates, long or short, are not fake.

What could be hard about it?

Angry...I'm just waiting for someone to prove to me that Hawaii issues Certificates of Live Birth for babies born on foreign soil. If they can't, then their claim that President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth isn't valid...(that's right people...it says Certificate of LIVE Birth)...doesn't hold water.

Look, it's just little old me.

Just prove to me that your certicates, long or short, are not fake.

What could be hard about it?

How about the fact the birthers would still claim the long form was a fake, too? In fact, no matter what comes out now, if it doesn't jive with what the "bithers" want, they will call it fake. One does not bow to the demands of moronic people. The POTUS knows he is dealing with morons, so why even bother giving them the time of day?

Seems to me that the candidate from the American Wackjob Party was born in Panama, which as far as I know is NOT in the United States. Was anybody ever concerned about that?

This damn country is broke, seriously broke, no money, no ethics, health care companies and banks own congress (both parties) and this is the issue y'all are concerned with? No wonder this place sucks. Costa Rica's looking awfully nice.

:laughs: @ all the birthers, even those on this thread.

You people are the definition of willfull ignorance.

You make your party, and our country look bad. Please go away.

Crackpots. It doesn't matter what proof is supplied, they will refuse to believe that too. They will go round and round and twist and spin any information. You cannot force people to believe. They don't want to believe.

They put Gallileo in jail for saying the earth was not the center of the universe. He was right, but it didn't matter. They refused to believe.

Anyone want to know how did the birth certificate become an issue?

The Characters:

"John O. Brennan, President of The Analysis Corporation, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Global Strategies Group (North America) Inc. and part of the Global Strategies Group www.globalgroup.com,

The Analysis Corp.

TAC has a strong cadre of cleared intelligence analysts and specialists who have extensive experience in CT and related fields. With a demonstrated record of retaining quality CT analysts in a dynamic market, TAC consistently provides skilled analysts intimately familiar with the missions, roles, and responsibilities of the Government's multifaceted CT Community. TAC employees are integrated into intelligence, law enforcement, defense, and homeland security work units, serve in Government operations centers, and play a critical role in watchlisting efforts.

The story:

According to a CNN report of the incident, "a State Department source said passport files contain scanned images of passport applications, birth date and basic biographical information, records of passport renewal, and possibly citizenship information."

An investigation of the incidents revealed that all three major presidential candidates - Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain - had their passport files compromised

It was shortly after this security breach that Internet rumors that questioned the "natural born" status of Barack Obama began circulating.

And then the witness gets shot:

A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

And then guess what Obama does?

John O. Brennan has been selected by President-Elect Obama to serve in his Administration as Homeland SecurityAdvisor and Deputy National SecurityAdvisor for Counterterrorism."

SIGH

I guess it's just one more of those crazy coincidences that seem to surround Obama.

Like his firing of an IG for "forgetfulness" had nothing to do with the IG's investigation into Obama's hoops buddy Kevin Johnson - it was just coincidence.

Like the ACORN Leaders who were trained by Obama who are currently under investigation for fraud.

And kinda like his connection with Ayres who was only a guy who lived in the neighborhood - even though Obama served on several boards with him over the past 8-10 years.

You know, that kind of coincidence...

This so-called "birther conspiracy theory" IS NOT about accepting the truth, but is MOST DEFINITELY ABOUT ELECTED REPUBLICAN LEADERS trying to damage and smear Pres. Obama to the point where instead of this country focusing getting this country out of the unprecedented mess that's affecting everyone in this country, they are hoping to keep the focus on his citizenship, therefore the DEMS and Pres. Obama will have little time to advance his agenda and policies.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER REASON WHY ELECTED REPUBLICAN LEADERS, (WHO TOOK AN OATH TO SERVE A-L-L PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES) WOULD EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING ALONG WITH THIS "BIRTHER CONSPIRACY THEORY".... LONG AFTER IT HAS BEEN DEBUNKED. PURE AND SIMPLE.

The blame for this nonsense should be placed DIRECTLY upon the ELECTED Republican leaders because THEY alone could have put a stop to what they know for fact is a rumor of lies IMMEDIATELY by simply saying "this birther theory is NOT true, therefore, as an ELECTED OFFICIAL, I CANNOT AND WILL NOT PARTICIPATE in this debacle". Instead, they have gone on record as stating that it has some credence" in order to satisfy a "small" fringed and quite prejudice part of their "base"... for 3 reasons:

1. the Republican party is a dying party because of the hypocritical way they've governed themselves, so ANY distraction is a good distraction - regardless of the PERMANENT DAMAGE that the "distraction" does to what's left of the dying party or its individual ELECTED LEADERS;
2. the Republicans are STILL convinced that they cannot get elected/re-elected on the merits of the works they do for ALL Americans, (as per the oath they take) without the support of the phony "evangelical right-wing fringed nutjobs" of the party;
3. the Republican party is the minority party, and they see this "birther conspiracy theory" as one of the ONLY ways to try to get back into power, regardless of the PERMANENT DAMAGE it is doing to the ENTIRE Republican party. Plain and simple.

What we're witnessing is a direct display of CRAZY perception becoming CRAZY reality (the fringed right-wingnuts); and the nuts (the ELECTED Republican officials) being in charged of the asylum (the fringed right-wingnuts).

NOW HEAR THIS REPUBLICANS WHO ARE WILLING TO SELL YOUR SOULS AND RESPONSIBILITIES, AND BE CONTROLLED BY THE FRINGED WING OF YOUR DYING PARTY... YOU ARE DAMAGING YOURSELVES BEYOND REPAIR, AND WE WILL NOT FORGET WHO YOU ARE. We need leaders who understands EXACTLY WHY they were elected, and that they MUST put this country first, not just themselves.

It is one thing to have a small fringed group of your party, who are completely bat-sh*t mean and crazy running around with their "conspiracy theories", but quite a different thing when ELECTED leaders go around not only supporting this nuttiness, but supplying the gasoline to keep these nutty theories burning... in order to try to regain a political party power majority. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

Hopefully, the sane folks in the Republican party will start cleaning house in their own party, and vote these ELECTED Republican leaders out for good. It's the ONLY way the Republican party can survive. PURE AND SIMPLE.

BTW, just because an ELECTED Republican official has not yet gone on record supporting this "birther conspiracy theory" nonsense doesn't make them safe.... just know that WE understand that your "silence" SPEAKS VOLUMES in it's approval!!

That's MY opinion!!

the right wing tea bagers who tend to be a bit bi polar are needing something to do. Let them alone. The voices they hear tells them things that are sort of strange (such as the Obama birth certificate) but they have to have a forum as well.

God help them.

*** Correction of first paragraph did not take, and should say.... ***

This so-called "birther conspiracy theory" IS NOT about accepting the truth, but is MOST DEFINITELY ABOUT ELECTED REPUBLICAN LEADERS trying to damage and smear Pres. Obama to the point where instead of focusing on getting us ALL out of the unprecedented mess we're ALL facing, they are hoping to keep the focus on his citizenship, therefore the Dems and Pres. Obama will have little time to advance his administration's agenda and policies.

Flag waver - Am I to assume you think Reality's long rant is perfectly reasonable?

OOOOKaaay!

Here's just a few Conspiracy Theories that weren't:

From the 1950s to the 1970s, the CIA and the U.S. Army operated a
research program into mind control, codenamed MKULTRA. In this
program, CIA agents gave LSD and other drugs to unwitting and
unconsenting victims, in an effort to devise a working "truth serum"
and/or mind-control drug. MKULTRA was uncovered by Presidential and
Congressional research committees in 1975, and discontinued at that
time.

And:

In the 2003 Iraq War, Iraqi resistance was strong at first and then collapsed suddenly. A conspiracy theory emerged in Iraq and elsewhere that there had been a secret deal between the US and the Iraqi military elite, wherein the elite were bribed to stand down. This conspiracy theory was ignored or ridiculed in the US media.

In late May, 2003, General Tommy Franks, who had been the head of the US forces in the conflict, confirmed in an interview with Defense News that the US government had paid off high-level Iraqi military officials and that they had stated that "I am working for you now".

Have you noticed yet that all of these clips are government conspiracies?

• Operation Mockingbird: Also in the 1950s to '70s, the CIA paid a number of well-known domestic and foreign journalists (from big-name media outlets like Time, The Washington Post, The New York Times, CBS and others) to publish CIA propaganda. The CIA also reportedly funded at least one movie, the animated "Animal Farm," by George Orwell. The Church Committee finally exposed the activities in 1975.

Before these things became well-known fact those who dared to question were called conspiracy theorists, too. When in fact the people who questioned these actions were people just like the "Birthers." People who noticed that something just wasn't right and demanded an answer to their questions.

• Northwoods: In the early 1960s, American military leaders drafted plans to create public support for a war against Cuba, to oust Fidel Castro from power. The plans included committing acts of terrorism in U.S. cities, killing innocent people and U.S. soldiers, blowing up a U.S. ship, assassinating Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees, and hijacking planes. The plans were all approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but were reportedly rejected by the civilian leadership, then kept secret for nearly 40 years.
• Watergate: Republican officials spied on the Democratic National Headquarters from the Watergate Hotel in 1972. While conspiracy theories suggested underhanded dealings were taking place, it wasn't until 1974 that White House tape recordings linked President Nixon to the break-in and forced him to resign.
• The Iran-Contra Affair: In 1985 and '86, the White House authorized government officials to secretly trade weapons with the Israeli government in exchange for the release of U.S. hostages in Iran. The plot was uncovered by Congress in 1987.

The grim reality is the term "birthers" to describe those who STILL insist despite all the evidence to the contrary that Obama is not a citizen should really be RACIST, not Birther. The only reason this argument continues is that a percentage of Americans simply cannot accept the reality that we now have an African-American/Caucasian president. Get over it folks. If you had presented a better candidate than John McCain and that nut-case Sarah Palin perhaps you would have won and have a nice, shiny white president. When was the last time anyone questioned whether or not McCain was a valid candidate for president -- he really WAS NOT born in a state of the United States (he was born in the Panama Canal zone.) That point alone is proof that this is an issue of racism, not patriotism.

So, DeeDee, is it your assertion that, because there were some conspiracies in the past, we should believe this one, despite a total lack of evidence to support it? Should we then likewise believe the 9/11 truthers and Roswell UFOers, because, after all, those are possible conspiracies as well?

Hey, maybe Obama's original birth certificate is at Area 51.

DeeDee

The Constitution of the United States, Article IV, Section 1, says Obama is the President of the United States.

The United States Supreme Court has refused twice to hear cases which would have tried to prove Obama is not legally the president so the lower court rulings stand, which means the Judicial branch if this country says he is the President of the United States.

The United States House of Representatives has now passed a resolution, 378-0, saying that Obama was born in Hawaii and is the 44th President of the United States. That means ALL elected Republican Representatives voted for this.

There is not one single elected or appointed official of your own government which substantiates even a doubt about this issue. And I would suggest that collectively, they all know a lot more about this than any of the individual citizens who are still upset about how the last election turned out.

It is abundently clear that all the Obama defenders are doing their best to defend BHO....the president of our country that is doing his best to destroy it should just show the birth certificate and be done with it....now all you lefties can spout your drivle about how everyone else is trying to destroy this presidency when actually the idiot is doing it all by himself...

allsgood

Actually, I am concerned about the damage this non-issue is doing to the country, and no, I don't agree with all the actions/policies of this administration. I have not agreed with everything ANY administration has done. I don't expect perfection, and I also have lived through enough of them to know it takes time to really have enough information to make real judgments.

But I am strongly in favor of at least a solid two-party system. I think it is essential to have a loyal opposition for an administration. And I am truly horrified that such a small number of people who cannot get over their disappointment with the last election, for whatever reason, are destroying one of the two great parties in this country, because this whole nonsense is getting blamed on the Republicans and making them all look like sore losers too. They have a lot of work to do to reorganize, and this is just making it harder for them.

The media, on both sides, is having a laughing field day with this, and using this to raise their ratings by making a few people think someone believes them. I know they will move on when the next peculiar story comes along, but meanwhile there are so many problems in this country, and we have a very small minority that keeps trying to pull everyone off the real solutions that need attention, energy, citizen involvement, and ideas.

Really, it is time for all Americans to show some support for the entire government of this country, both parties, believe in the Constitution these people have sworn to uphold, get over the last election, and get on with the really necessary business of putting this country back together.

Okay, so I keep hearing all the birthers talk about how he won't show his ''birth certificate"...that all he is showing is his "Certificate of Live Birth". So, I went and looked at a copy of my kids' "Birth Certificates"...you know, the ones I used to get their passports, that show they are United States citizens. I did this because I keep hearing the "it doesn't list the hospital or have the attending doctor's signature" and I kept thinking "I don't remember that information being on my kids' birth certificates." Turns out I was right. My kids' certificates contain exactly the same information that Barack Obama's certificate contains. The only difference is the state seal (my kids were born in Colorado) and the fact that theirs are called a "Certificate of Vital Record". Fortunately, I've never been asked to produce a "long form" to prove they are actually citizens...because I couldn't. What I have is what is required...which is exactly the same thing that is required of President Obama...which is exactly what he has produced.

Pinch -

The resolution was to commemorate Hawaii's fiftieth anniversary as a state. It did include the provision - “Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii,” - However the resolution was about Hawaii - not Barack Obama!

Yes, the Supreme Court has refused to hear cases - in fact, Obama met with several justices for a closed door session just a couple of days before the first case was set to be heard - then it was thrown out for lack of merit.

If this were George Bush the liberals (and the MSM!) would have the story running 24 hours a day!!! You would all be screaming your heads off demanding that he show his long form birth certificate to the world.

But since it's Obama - nothing to it - just ignorant conspiracy theorists crying because the conservatives are no longer in power - cause that's all it is, really..

I'm not quite sure exactly what is going on with this birth certificate - but I am sure that something isn't right. Nobody is going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep something hidden if there is nothing to hide.

Although it had already been announced this resolution has actually been tabled for now due to the provision - “Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii,”

DeeDee...

Regarding your post a long way back up this page when you were whining and crying about Gov. Fukino and quoting her passage from the article (#1.53), you should be aware that Dr. Fukino is not the governor of the state of Hawaii as you stated...she's the Health Director. Certifying certificates such as this is more than likely her domain to deal with.

The Governor is Linda Lingle.

However, I do agree with your

just ignorant conspiracy theorists crying because the conservatives are no longer in power - cause that's all it is, really..

probably much more than you can possibly realize. I don't think I've seen a birther put it any better than you have above.

Yes, the Supreme Court has refused to hear cases - in fact, Obama met with several justices for a closed door session just a couple of days before the first case was set to be heard - then it was thrown out for lack of merit.

Are you just making up your "facts" on the fly or do you have some actual proof of this allegation? If you can't quote from the article correctly, how/why would anybody believe any other of your conspiracy theories?

Eyes - As I have stated several times - I have spent a lot of time researching this issue. During the course of my research I found out about the meeting between the SCOTUS and Obama.

Are you just making up your "facts" on the fly or do you have some actual proof of this allegation? If you can't quote from the article correctly, how/why would anybody believe any other of your conspiracy theories?

These clips are from the Idaho Observer: http://proliberty.com/observer/20090119.htm

On Wednesday, January 14, President-elect Barack Obama and Vice President-elect Joe Biden spent about an hour at the Supreme Court. They were invited by Chief Justice John Roberts to visit the Supreme Court. Obama and Biden met with Chief Justice John Roberts and seven other justices in a conference room for about 45 minutes, then toured the courtroom.

The legal controversy surrounding Obama’s place of birth and his constitutional eligibility to hold the presidential office could not have been lost on the participants. With several cases already dismissed by the Supreme Court and numerous others pending in the lower courts, they all should be aware of the unresolved controversy. What subjects were discussed at this "in chambers" meeting?

This clip states hearings to be heard in lower courts - however:

From: http://usjf.net/archives/98

Her case was the most recent on which the Supreme Court held a “conference,” an off-the-record discussion at which justices discuss whether to take a case. Taitz told WND the justices decided Jan. 23 to deny her case a hearing on its merits.

I was wrong about the time line - this actually took place nine days before the case was thrown out for "lack of merit.

Please also note that this meeting took place prior to Obama's inauguration. While this is not unheard of (two other presidents have visited SCOTUS prior to inauguration) the event is usually a formal affair and not a closed door meeting.

"The invitation of Chief Justice Roberts for a behind-closed-door meeting with a man who is the subject of lawsuits coming before the Supreme Court concerning his eligibility to the office of president, was not only inappropriate but leaves questionable the judicial conduct of the justices with whom [Obama] and Biden met. Judges are to refrain from appearances of impropriety and partiality; from engaging in activities that compromise the mandate of an independent judiciary," said Lynn Stuter from newswithviews.com.

If you had a case pending would you want the judge hearing your case to be in closed door meetings with the opposing party just days before the case was to be heard? I think in most cases the decision would be thrown out and the judge would face possible disbarment due to this action.

DeeDee

I am sure you are a very nice and sincere person, and you obviously hold a deep-seated belief. But although you claim you do a lot of research, whoever trained you as a researcher should be forced to give you your tuition back.

Research is based on a series of facts, not on a fact, followed by a series of assumptions. It also involves serious scrutiny of your sources, and independent corroboration by at least two other independent sources who have no vested interest in the outcome. If an actual factual legal record is available, that should always be included in research, and is generally conclusive.

For example, in addition to the factual errors in your "research" already noted by other posters, a quick review of the appropriate legislative activity log would have told you the following:

On Monday, Rep. Michelle Bachman (R-MN) reported to the Speaker that the Resolution recognizing Hawaii's 50th anniversary as a state and commemorating its contributions to the country could not be voted on due to absence of a quorum. Since she was correct, the vote on the resolution was POSTPONED, not tabled, and the usual procedures went into effect. The aides who sit in for absent Senators or Representatives get on the horn to the appropriate offices and let them know there is a vote pending.

At the point the vote was again in order, there were 376 Representatives present. The Resolution was again introduced, and the vote was 0 for the "Nays", and no abstentions. That means, that all Representatives, including Representative Bachman, voted in favor of the Resolution.

The Resolution, which was in honor of Hawaii, included a list of its contributions to the nation, one of which recognized Obama as the 44th President of the United States, and as the first native-born Hawaiian to achieve such a status.

This is on the record - a federal one. Whatever media source you used for your research got it wrong.

I know you and the other several thousand of you who the media of all political persuasions is exploiting for ratings and money think you are having an impact, but you are doing serious damage to one of the great and necessary parties in our two-party system by calling yourselves Republicans. You do not represent the vast majority of Republicans, and you are an embarrassment to them, because you are using this non-issue to distract from the real problem they have of trying to reconstruct their party and attend to the actual pressing issues of rebuilding this country to its former greatness. The only ones who will continue to goad you on are the talking heads, who see the dollar signs in their eyes every time one of you begins talking about this nonsense. They love sensational stuff, Paris Hilton isn't doing much right now, and the Michael Jackson stuff is getting old.

As soon as another big money-maker comes along, you too will be dumped by them, and you have no other defenders because you have no facts. Beliefs and suspicions are on your side, but all the facts are against you.

Either get some facts or stop destroying the loyal opposition which we desperately need and which is trying just as desperately to regroup and reorganize, and you calling yourselves Republicans is doing real damage to this effort.

The real Republicans who have now put their names to a resolution recognizing that this person is the legal and legitimate President of the United States are the true Americans who understand the Constitutional basis for his legitimacy, and are faithfully fulfilling their oaths of office. You need to step aside and not continue to let people think you are somehow even remotely typical of the people who elected them as representatives. You were not of significant numbers to help them get elected in the first place, as they have now found out, and their re-election will not be impacted by you either, and they now know that too. So you will see more and more of them re-claiming their party's name from you, so they can begin rebuilding the Grand Old Party we all used to respect.

aw a Real Pineapple Here !!! no wonder why things are so darn prickly and thorny.......

It's time (and was a long time ago) to move on from this non story.The best way to oppose the Rookie President is by placing credible candidates on the ballot next November to neuter him, and then work toward making him a one term wonder.

I guess that would make the Dubya Really the Queen of Englands Illegitimate child !

You mean I have a brother???

DeeDee...

All you've shown is a coincidental timeline for what happened as far as Obama & Biden meeting with members of the SCOTUS (at THEIR invitation) and the conspiracy theory you keep trying to advance.

Your two sources cite nothing...NOTHING more than conjecture and innuendo and are without substance. Anyone can try and make an opinion into a "fact". The great difference is that most people can recognize the difference between the two...but then there are others who will swallow every little bit of it and see all sorts of boogeymen where none exist.

Do you seriously think that Chief Justice Roberts, appointed by a Republican president (Bush jr.), would entertain the idea of of creating or supporting the illegality of a presidential contender in any manner, especially a Democrat?

I agree with PINCH...your research and your "sources" (two very devoted Conservative sites) are flawed and without merit. They offer absolutely nothing but right-wing speculation.

Get a grip, girl...you've got nothing. Your conspiracy well is drying up and still you keep drinking.

Pinch -

I see that you addressed the Resolution issue (and at the time I posted the Resolution had been tabled) but neglected the really important stuff.

You requested proof that Obama met with the Justices prior to the court case that was to be presented regarding Obama's birth certificate -

I provided the proof and you have nothing to say.

At another point in this thread when I supplied sites that stated that elected officials do not have background checks, you repeatedly stated that you know for a fact that they do have to have background checks in order to gain security clearance. I provided two or three links, including one to snopes, that state they are not subject to background checks.

I asked you to provide me with links to back up your claim - and you have ignored that as well.

Since you have indicated more than once that you hold a position that requires security clearance and that you know for a fact what you are talking about - I would really like for you to provide those links.

And also, a response to the information that you requested and that I provided would be nice.

Eyes - The Judges always invite the incoming President to visit and tour the Supreme Court. That is nothing unusual by itself.

What is unusual is that most President's visit and tour after they have formally taken office. The event is usually formal and not a closed door meeting.

The fact that Obama scheduled meeting the Justices prior to his inauguration, when a case in which he was the defendant was scheduled to be heard just two days after his inauguration - combined with the closed door status of the meeting - raises questions of ethics violations.

Sorry DeeDee...I still think you're just spitting into a very strong wind. It only raises "questions of ethics violations" in the minds of those who believe that just any/every little thing outside the status quo of what they believe, MUST, in some manner, be harming the world they live in.

Would you believe anybody on the other side who cited what you might consider to be biased references (the ones I hear the right wing denigrate most often are MSNBC, ABC, CNN, CBS, Daily Kos, Huffington, etc.) as sources such as you did to make their case? I seriously doubt it...it works both ways. Nobody is going to believe a "source" that comes across with such an obvious biasness. I read your source citings...it's all conjecture, innuendo, and opinion. Stating something is one thing...proving it is quite another and there was not a single, solitary verifiable FACT from either of them that would make their contention believable. Your second source bills themselves as "Your Conservative Voice in the Courts". That pretty much blows them out of the race due to lack of impartiality.

The equivalent of what I read in your sources would be the same for me as if you had listed anything from Rush, Hannity, Bill O' or Anne Coulter as a source. I've heard them speak, and I was much less than impressed by their genuine lack of truthfulness.

Anyone want to know how did the birth certificate become an issue?

No. Because it's not an issue to 99.9% of Americans. The only ones making an issue of it are you "birthers", who throw out invalid information at every turn, and actually believe what you are saying. If Obama was not born in the U.S., why didn't McCain and Palin shout it at every rally last fall? I mean, Palin said the words "domestic terrorist" at every rally...and proving Obama wasn't a natural born citizen would not only advance their campaign, it would eliminate his candidacy altogether! But they didn't do it, because it's pure bunk, even with the considerable power of the RNC to aid them.

Why haven't Rush, or Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, or especially Glenn Beck, been on a medieval crusade to prove the "birther" conspiracy theory? Because even those guys and their ridiculous right wing "values" know it a fallacy! Don't you think Fox News wouldn't have already had a full day, even a full week, of their babbling about Obama being born in Kenya...even they know that's a load of crap! Nope...these days Glenn Beck is making a fool of himself claiming Obama is a "racist" against whites...while conveniently forgetting that Obama's mother was white, as was the grandmother he revered! Even Glenn Beck, as dense as he is, doesn't talk about the birthers' theories; he's moved on to something almost, but not quite, as ridiculous.

Give it up. If Obama's birth certificate is a fake, or is somehow invalid because the POTUS won't hand you the original, which the State of Hawaii would now only give to Barack Obama...how did his parents know to fake it? If he was born in Kenya, how did his parents know to put a birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper? Did some heavenly spirit come down and tell them to do it, because 48 years in the future he'd become the first black President? They'd have had to pay for a false birth announcement in Hawaii, and they just couldn't put the charge on their credit card (then known as a "charge-a-plate") especially from Kenya!

I guess we can call the "birthers" the current lunatic fringe...

Eyes - Then provide me with a non-biased source that supports your statement and refutes mine.

Is there any source other than Orly Taitz herself to verify that SCOTUS ever even entertained her brief long enough to reject it? Ever even looked at it? Based on reliable reports (you know, ones that aren't WND, or USJF quoting WND) no court, at any level, has found any birfer suit to have any standing or merit. If no lower court has ever attached any value at all to a suit, you're not likely to get SCOTUS to even glance at it.

Settle it? That's naieve.

She did not say that she saw an actual certificate of live birth... because she saw no such thing.

It either does not exist or it shows that he is not a natural born citizen... there is no other explanation for the secrecy or the cryptic "fairies exist I've seen them... take my word for it.", messages from unknown individuals that are supposed to replace the actual certificate itself.

My grandfather used to say, "If you believe only half of what you see and nothing of what you hear you'll be better off."

Show me don't tell me... I'm not a fool.

That's a line from an old Motown hit, covered by many bands including mine, Heard It Through The Grapevine - if that is the advice you live by how come you believe this crap after all the Law says you have to be a natural born citizen, the Republican appointed Attorney General the highest law enforcement official in the land signed off on OB's application to run for Pres. of the U.S. what or who is it that you do or do not believe? The highest law enforcement officer in the land or some rumor from the internet grapevine. The bad thing about only believing half of what you see is that you don't know which half to believe.

A Yank...

We have a lot of people who do not remember this country before there was an internet, much less television. They probably have no idea how this country survived this long when people did have to take the word of its government officials and honor the words of its Constitution when a controversy arose.

But now so many act as though the invention of this truly remarkable technology has suddenly negated the power of those things - especially the Constitution. If a situation such as this had arisen even a hundred years ago, would people have all been on horseback rushing to the state of a candidate's birth, so they could see, touch, and feel that person's documents for themselves before they could act like patriotic Americans?

It does create an interesting image though, sort of like the scene from that movie about the great land rush.

"Obama's birth certificate along with birth notices from the two Honolulu newspapers were brought forward even before he took office."

This is just silly.

Are the "birthers" claiming that the newspapers put fake birth announcements in the papers when he was born - anticipating that he would someday run for President?

Give me a break.

Are the "birthers" claiming that the newspapers put fake birth announcements in the papers when he was born - anticipating that he would someday run for President?

I think they're trying to establish that Obama's mother "phoned it in"... From Kenya.

(roll eyes)

John I'm from California originally..........please.......please........please........Don't put that thought out into the atmosphere.............

There is already a movement started by his supporters to amend the Constitution to allow naturalized citizens who have lived in the US at least 20 years be allowed to run for POTUS.

If you think what he's done to California is bad......please.....take it back. He's the hormonally enhanced male version of Sarah Palin.

Obama is making Arnold look like an amateur with his spendulous packages and healthcare push. Heck the California senator's can even agree on a budget because the Democrats put a bunch of cra'p in their solution to the state budget bill. And Obama and Congress simply won't even read the bills they are passing. I think I even saw one that tried to sneak through spending money on UFO research!

He has shown his birth certificate.

The officials in Hawaii have twice gone on record confirming it is valid and accurate.

The doctor who delivered him (Rodney West) died at the age of 98.

Every court challenge about his birthplace has been tossed out.

But don't stop...really....this is far too entertaining. And it makes it so easy to separate the people incapable of telling fact from fiction.

GoldenGateMami_Susi

John I'm from California originally..........please.......please........please........Don't put that thought out into the atmosphere.............

There is already a movement started by his supporters to amend the Constitution to allow naturalized citizens who have lived in the US at least 20 years be allowed to run for POTUS.

If you think what he's done to California is bad......please.....take it back. He's the hormonally enhanced male version of Sarah Palin.

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• 8

• !

#2.1 - Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:27 AM EDT

I don't think it is as much as Arnies fault as it is all those friggin' illegals living there that are using up the resources of CA. Get rid of them and CA should be better off than they are now.

I agree, NotKidding. This is the most entertaining thing I do all day! These posts crack me up!

Face it!! Barack Obama is THE President of the United States!! Believe me, if there were even a thread of truth to this, you can bet McPalin would have been all over it. They were all over Ayers, wern't they? You think they'd let this get swept under the rug? I don't!

Wow, Arnold for President? Well, at least he has the balls to cut spending which Obama has just gone beserk on. Arnold could win too because he has a foot in both parties and belongs to the Royal Kennedy Democratic Family. That would really confuse their party loyalty!

If the Illegals were all deported our entire government would be relieved of a massive drain. We should outlaw the use of debit and money cards outside the US as well and make it impossible for them to send money out of the country to their relatives!

H.R. 593

Recognizing and celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union as the 50th State.

Whereas August 21, 2009, marks the 50th Anniversary of President Dwight D. Eisenhower's signing of Proclamation 3309, which admitted Hawaii into the Union in compliance with the Hawaii Admission Act, enacted by the United States Congress on March 18, 1959;

Whereas Hawaii is `a place like no other, with a people like no other' and bridges the mainland United States to the Asia-Pacific region;

Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii;

Whereas Hawaii has contributed to the diversity of Congress in electing the first Native Hawaiian member of Congress, Prince Jonah Kuhio Kalaniana`ole, the first Asian-American member, Hiram Fong, the first woman of color, Patsy T. Mink, and the first Native Hawaiian to serve in the Senate, Daniel Kahikina Akaka;

Whereas Hawaii is an example to the rest of the world of unity and positive race relations;

Whereas Pearl Harbor is a strategic military base for the U.S. in the Pacific and also a historical site for the Nation, being the location of the December 7, 1941, surprise Japanese aerial attack that thrust the Nation into World War II;

Whereas Hawaii is home to 1/4 of the endangered species in the United States;

Whereas Hawaii has 8 national parks, which preserve volcanoes, complex ecosystems, a Hansen's disease colony, and other sites of historical and cultural significance;

Whereas Kilauea ranks among the most active volcanoes on Earth;

Whereas President Bush nominated the Papahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization World Heritage Centre for consideration to the World Heritage List;

Whereas Hawaii has produced musical legends ranging from traditional favorites such as Alfred Apaka, Don Ho, and Genoa Keawe, to Hawaii renaissance performers such as Eddie Kamae, Raymond Kane, Gabby Pahinui, Israel Kamakawiwo`ole, the Brothers Cazimero, and the Beamer Brothers, and continuing on to contemporary stars such as Keali`i Reichel, Ledward Kaapana, Jake Shimabukuro, and Raiatea Helm;

Whereas Hawaii is culturally rich, as the Hawaiian culture has been protected through Hawaiian language immersion schools, hula competitions such as the Merrie Monarch Festival, canoeing voyages undertaken by vessels like the Hokule`a, and the continuing historic preservation of Hawaiian traditions;

Whereas the Hawaii Statehood Commission has held a Joint Session of the Hawaii State Legislature in honor of statehood and will be celebrating this milestone with a public discussion and with the arrival of the USS Hawaii; and

Whereas for all of these reasons Hawaii is a truly unique State: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the House of Representatives recognizes and celebrates the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union as the 50th State.

Kidding - Are you?

Dr. West did not deliver Obama - you have old news - and Snopes, once again, misrepresents the facts:

In January 2009, a teacher at the Honolulu prep school attended by Barak Obama recalled discussing his birth with the obstetrician who delivered him.

I really hate to bring World Net into the conversation, as it is about as believable as the Huff and Puff Post - However, since I can not find anything from the Buffalo paper that originally ran the Nelson story that refutes WND's claims that they gave the Nelson story a good spin:

But Nelson told WND her knowledge of the birth came only from a physician, Dr. Rodney West, with whom she was dining, and the subject was brought up because of the mother’s novel name and the “musical” name of the son, Barack Hussein Obama. She told WND the conversation also was memorable because Obama’s mother’s name was Stanley, named after her father, and the son also was named after his father.

However, Nelson told WND today, “I don’t know in what capacity [West] knew about this particular birth.”

“[West] never said to me, ‘I delivered a baby,’” Nelson said

I could name several other sites that debunk this myth but I think it might be a good idea for you to actually do some research on your own.

Additionally, most courts have refused to hear the cases for release of the long form birth certificate based on "merit" and have dismissed them without a hearing.

There are still three or four that are pending, and one that a judge has finally agreed to hear.

how do you figure? Arnold wasn't born in the US?

Arnold has done the best he can with what he has to work with, a bunch of liberals that are set on ruining California by taxing all the business away.Toyota will be the next to pull up stakes since Government Motors pulled the plug on the Vibe giving them (Toyota and their joint venture NUMMI ) an out in Fremont.

They will never be happy. He could post his birth certificate, driver license, and fingerprints and birthers will say they are fake. Were were these people when Bush refuse to prove papers he was not AWOL from the military? When he did those really did look fake. Of course Repubs like Sanford know AWOL.

OUShark; The Repubs and Neocons are DESPERATE! You know what they say.... Desperate times calls for desperate means, and that's just what they are doing. They are throwing the Sh_t on the wall to see what sticks.. and look at the idiots who eat up all that repub and neocon propaganda and lies! Those you researched Obama's birth even found the Public Birth Annoucement in the newspaper!! A public official of Hawaii has confirmed the birth certificate, and a copy has been produced for the public. The truth is some of these can't stand the fact that Obama Won! And some of them are just big fat bigots! I couldn't be prouder of than I am to have Obama as our president!

Go Obama Go!

Dal,

It's not that they won't be happy, it's that they have nothing left to deflect the attention away from the HUMONGOUS flaws of the GOP...oopsie, I mean their CORE VALUES: Hypocrisy, Lying, Cheating, Extortion, Treason, Sexcapades, Abusing their power, Circumventing the law, Fraud, Double Standards, etc., etc., etc.

What does Liz Cheney think now?? Will she go into hiding with her daddy?

OU Shark, the only thing you are wrong about...these birthers could never 'return to natural thought processes' -- they were probably born this way, the defect is probably congenital.

So the answer to why Obama won't allow his long form birth certificate to be released is.....Because he doesn't have to? OK, fair enough I suppose, you are technically correct. Let's move on to another topic shall we?

Can anyone explain to me why all of his school records are sealed? No former president in the history of America has done this. Anyone have a plausible and/or logical answer? As I understand his supporters, not to mention himself, Obama is a brilliant genious! One of, if not the smartest humans to have ever lived! What makes anyone say that? Where is the evidence?

We are not dealing with normal people here.... remember Palin said they are not like us.....I am so glad I am not one of these kooks.....When you have no solutions to problems you throw out stink bombs to distract .......

DMAC: Can anyone explain to me why all of his school records are sealed?

They arn't "sealed" any more than mine are - the records fall under the Privacy Act and it would be illegal for the schools to release them. I am guessing that his lawyers have told him not to provide any more statements or documents until this matter is settled in all courts, just like any good lawyer would tell any client. He provided, in good faith, his Birth Certificate - and it was not accepted by Corsi and Berg. This issue is a cash cow for Berg/Corsi etc, they are laughing at birthers all the way to the bank and their publisher's office!

For all the bragging of his birth certificate being real, you might want to have examined the copy he posted on the internet. It is the type issue to babies born off US soil and not the type people born on US soil receive.

If he is a US citizen then he owe Occidental a lot of money and the Ford Scholarships should prosecute him for fraud. His entrance application stated his legal name as Barry Sorento.

This whole issue has been absurd and pushed by the Fox noise. Hawaii article as follows:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/28/hawaii-declares-obama-birth-certificate-real/?test=latestnews

1) Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.

That won't bring the cost down beside there are already Insurance companies that do business in many states.

2) End employer provided health insurance.

Great, now what? What program have you instituted to allow people to afford health insurance on their own?

3) Insurance companies should only be allowed to sell major medical/catastrophic injury/emergency care policies. Every day office visits should be paid for out of pocket.

Another good idea. Now how are the poor going to afford to go to the doctor or to purchase major medical/catastrophic injury/ emergency care policies? especially those that are in relative good health and young who don't have children yet? What incentives would they have to purchase health insurance?

4) Reasonable limits on medical malpractice awards.

OK. Now what is a reasonable limit for paralyzing someone, or leaving them in a vegetative state? what about lost wages and future wages? It is a good ideal but not very specific. I would say it should be enough to cover any medical care or procedures that a patient might need, along with lost wages and future wages that the patient would have earned if he/she were still able to perform their job.

5) Overhaul and streamline medicare and medicade.

This is actually a good idea. I would also suggest expanding these programs to include more people.

6) Allow hospital emergency rooms to refuse to treat non-emergency cases.

I would add a referral to a clinic or a doctors office immediately. One point though who decides what is a non-emergency case?

7) Repeal the 14th amendment.

Why? How will that stop an emergency room from treating someone that has his hand cut off while working in a meat processing plant?

These changes would bring healthcare costs to a reasonable level in 5 years.

Some of these would bring healthcare costs down, but they still do not address the problem of those that are uninsured because they can't afford it.

Other than allowing the government to totally take over the healthcare industry, which everyone knows will be a disaster (look at the quality and cost of healthcare they are in charge of already), what solutions do you have?

Sorry, but Universal Health Care IS the best solution for many reasons 1) Doctor's office would not have to have people fighting Insurance companies to get payment and would only have people there for the patient. 2) It would cover the 20 somethings that are opting out of having health insurance because they are in good health and are under the delusion that nothing bad will happened to them. 3) It would allow people to seek treatment for conditions before they become a bigger problem.

Can anyone explain to me why all of his school records are sealed? No former president in the history of America has done this. Anyone have a plausible and/or logical answer?

The plausible answer is that he wants to protect his privacy. Another plausible answer is, what do you need to know? What classes did he take? who was his teacher or professor? What grades did he receive? How is that important?

As I understand his supporters, not to mention himself, Obama is a brilliant genious! One of, if not the smartest humans to have ever lived! What makes anyone say that? Where is the evidence?

I would not go so far as to call him "the smartest human to have ever lived" or "a brilliant genius", but he is intelligent, and there is evidence to support that statement, He was editor and later president of The Harvard Law Review, graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard and served as Professor of Constitutional Law in the University of Chicago Law School, these are not things a person with low or average intelligence would have accomplished.

have examined the copy he posted on the internet. It is the type issue to babies born off US soil and not the type people born on US soil receive.

Really? That's not what the State of Hawaii said - got a source?

Great, now what? What program have you instituted to allow people to afford health insurance on their own?

I have never had employer provided healthcare but I've always managed to afford it. Just barely.

I would add a referral to a clinic or a doctors office immediately. One point though who decides what is a non-emergency case?

they are called triage nurses.

Last
For all the bragging of his birth certificate being real, you might want to have examined the copy he posted on the internet. It is the type issue to babies born off US soil and not the type people born on US soil receive.

This is idiotic. I retrieved a copy of my birth certificate, a "Certificate of Live Birth", and it is THE certificate that proves that I was born in the United States, and I was born in D.C. You've been listening to idiots again. AND, the certificate that was posted on the internet does say "Certificate of Live Birth", like it's supposed to say.

Last said:

For all the bragging of his birth certificate being real, you might want to have examined the copy he posted on the internet. It is the type issue to babies born off US soil and not the type people born on US soil receive.

Ummm.... no. Not even close. The one posted is "the type" issued just for people born in Hawaii. The statement on the birth certificate that the "Place of Birth" was Honolulu should have been a pretty big clue to you about that...

The simple, irrefutable fact of the matter is that if Obama was born in either of the Hawaiian hospitals that he has claimed his vault copy birth certificate would be a long form hospital birth record. This is an indisputable fact.

The simple, irrefutable fact of the matter is that there are American citizens who want the man acting as president to provide his long form birth certificate (Remember! Indisputable fact - if Obama was born in a hospital his original birth certificate is the long form hospital birth record!)

The simple irrefutable fact of the matter is that we have soldiers refusing acknowledge Obama as Commander-in-Chief until he provides his long form birth certificate (once again the hospital would have submitted a long form hospital birth record)

Folks this truly is the easiest thing in the world to put a stop to - have non-governmental specialists review and test this original article and release the information. If he had done this months ago we wouldn't have even cared about the specialists.

I would like for someone to give me one good reason why Obama would refuse to do something so incredibly simple. I don't want to hear that the short form is acceptable for legal matters - I don't want to hear that the short-form is (now!) all Hawaii gives out. I don't want to hear that he shouldn't have to do this. I don't want to hear your opinion on how the "birthers" wouldn't accept a long form either - that's just speculation.

All I want is one - just one! - good reason why Obama would refuse to allow experts to review the long form hospital birth record that has to be on file - if he was born in a Hawaiian hospital.

dmac225...

Once again you show what a difficult time you have staying on the topic of a thread.

But you're too well known for your little game of distract, deflect and attempted thread hijacking to get away with it.

At least DeeDee's rants are based on the courage of her convictions...no matter how "conspiratorial" they seem to be. AND...although I don't agree with her, she has the common sense to limit her views to the issue at hand...and only that issue. You could take a lesson from her.

Again you fail...miserably. That's probably why you got squashed.

Hell, I don't want to hear about his COLB, I want to see a certified, verifiable copy and I don't want to hear about how damn smart he is, I want to see his school records, his thesis and his GPA... I am really sick and tired of these clowns trying to pass this guy off after they ran Mccain thru the ringer for nothing. The law says he has to show his certified Birth Certificate to the public, so let's see it.

Is this guy a real Prez or is he ain't?... then prove it and let's be done with it.

I called that loud mouthed Rich Cohen (SPLC) up and ask him for his copy and I haven't heard a word from him, yet. I get the same reaction from all these jerks that claim they have seen this COLB.

The simple, irrefutable fact of the matter is that there are American citizens who want the man acting as president to provide his long form birth certificate (Remember! Indisputable fact - if Obama was born in a hospital his original birth certificate is the long form hospital birth record!)

The simple, irrefutable fact of the matter is that there are American citizens who cannot think rationally and logically.

The simple irrefutable fact of the matter is that we have soldiers refusing acknowledge Obama as Commander-in-Chief until he provides his long form birth certificate (once again the hospital would have submitted a long form hospital birth record)

The simple irrefutable fact of the matter is that we have soldiers VOLUNTIRING and later claiming to refuse an order when one was not given for political purposes.

Folks this truly is the easiest thing in the world to put a stop to - have non-governmental specialists review and test this original article and release the information. If he had done this months ago we wouldn't have even cared about the specialists.

He did and people refuse to believe him, the Health Services Director certified that it was authentic and people refuse to believe her.

I would like for someone to give me one good reason why Obama would refuse to do something so incredibly simple. I don't want to hear that the short form is acceptable for legal matters - I don't want to hear that the short-form is (now!) all Hawaii gives out. I don't want to hear that he shouldn't have to do this. I don't want to hear your opinion on how the "birthers" wouldn't accept a long form either - that's just speculation.

In other word you don't want to hear reasonable and logical explanations.

All I want is one - just one! - goodreason why Obama would refuse to allow experts to review the long form hospital birth record that has to be on file - if he was born in a Hawaiian hospital.

Because no other President in the History of the United States has had to, because if he had a much paler completion and was married to a white woman this would not be an issue.

Hell, I don't want to hear about his COLB, I want to see a certified, verifiable copy and I don't want to hear about how damn smart he is, I want to see his school records, his thesis and his GPA... I am really sick and tired of these clowns trying to pass this guy off after they ran Mccain thru the ringer for nothing. The law says he has to show his certified Birth Certificate to the public, so let's see it.

It has been verified and it has been reviewed, if it was good enough for the Senate, Congress, FBI, CIA, and whatever other committee there is that looked at it, why is it not good enough for you. What reason do you have for his school records, it is a verifiable fact that he graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard, an intelligent person can infer that anyone that can accomplish that would have to have a high GPA. There was a real question to McCain's eligibility and it was answered by the Courts and the matter was dropped shortly after that.

Is this guy a real Prez or is he ain't?... then prove it and let's be done with it.

Yes! President Barack Hussien Obama is the real President of the United States of America. He has prove it time and time again.

I called that loud mouthed Rich Cohen (SPLC) up and ask him for his copy and I haven't heard a word from him, yet. I get the same reaction from all these jerks that claim they have seen this COLB.

Because Rich Cohen may have some better thing to do than to talk to insane people who refuse to deal in reality.

DeeDee said:

I don't want to hear that the short-form is (now!) all Hawaii gives out

So let me get this straight. You don't want to hear this, so that makes it ok to demand something that they don't give out? And you don't understand why that makes you look a little nutty?

The simple irrefutable fact is that the state of Hawaii has certified the short form to be sufficient for all legal purposes to verify birth in that state.

The simple irrefutable fact is that the state of Hawaii has, repeatedly, vouched for the authenticity and accuracy of the short form birth certificate for President Obama.

The simple and irrefutable fact is that the Constitution requires both the federal government and the other states to accord full faith and credit to the records of each state.

The simple and irrefutable fact is that all legal requirements have been constitutionally satisfied.

Same old song and dance - and still not one good reason why Obama would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to prevent his original, long form hospital birth record to be analyzed.

Same old birfer song and dance. I post three simple and irrefutable facts and an inescapable conclusion, and you whine that you still want to see a form you have no legal right to demand.

His lawyers have fought exclusively for one, and only one, legal principle: that crackpots do not have the right to drag him into court. Defending that principle is worth whatever it costs. That is a very good reason why he will not acknowledge you people in any way.

The same privacy laws that protect Obama's personal information protect you, me, the birthers, and everyone else in this country. Birthers have NO RIGHTS when it comes to absconding someone's personal information, no mater how "patriotic" it sounds.

DeeDee...

Do you have a factual, non-biased, reputable, verifiable source for your allegation that

still not one good reason why Obama would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to prevent his original, long form hospital birth record to be analyzed.

If so, please post it.

If not, then it must be just another in your long line of "conspiracies", eh?

I still like the explanation someone gave earlier as to why Obama won't release any more info. The longer he drags this out, the worse the GOP looks and the more they look out of touch with reality.

It works for me.

Well, actually - it's not such old news.
Catch any discussion on Newsvine that talks about Obama and (sooner or later) it comes up. Almost as reliable as Old Faithful.

I don't like a fair number of his policies, but resorting to tinfoil hat wearing tactics is just ... weird. It keeps popping up, though.

Then why is it so difficult to see the original birth certificate and get this over with once and for all. If he has it then let everybody see it and be done with it. This is stupid that he can't show it. The one on TV is just a computer copy that anyone can make, so why?

The original birth certificate cannot be released to the public because that is illegal in Hawaii.

He's not hiding anything. Hawaii prohibits the release of the original birth certificate. It's the same as in my state. All you get is the copy with a notary seal on it. The FBI checked out the original and that's good enough for me. SO GET OVER IT!

Then why is it so difficult to see the original birth certificate and get this over with once and for all. If he has it then let everybody see it and be done with it. This is stupid that he can't show it. The one on TV is just a computer copy that anyone can make, so why?

One more time. No, it's a certified true copy as provided by the State of Hawaii.

But nothing will be enough, will it. Someone could find an old home movie of Mrs. Obama giving birth to baby Barack with Mauna Loa visible in the window and native Hawai'ians dancing and tossing leis around the bedside, and you guys would say, "Well, that doesn't prove anything."

This is the living definition of complete lunatic irrationality. And political desperation.

Len-315082 is a typical birther. I have seen this kind of posts from him before in every discussion. He will not believe it if there was a video or anything else. It is far more fun for the right to spread hate monger doubt than face the truth. Obama could show them everything and then they would say he is really an alien from planet Pluto. The far reaching right get sillier every day.

BO does not live in Hawaii he lives Washington DC and he can release the actual copy of the Birth Certificate if he has one, not the certificate of live birth.

Maybe you can't read, Stockcart, it is a Hawaiian law to not release original birth certificates. Whether Obama resides in Wash DC, Hawaii or California, Hawaii will not release the original certificate, it is not up to Obama to release it, he doesn't have the original, yo bimbo, Hawaii does!

Nobody in the US has their original birth certificate! What in the hell do you idiots think a certified copy means? Before it can be given as a certified copy the person certifying it mus be able to see the original. This is a legal document in any court in the world. Lets do this idiots Have Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh produce their original birth cerificates.

{"commentId":8478888,"authorDomain":"middleroader57"}

middleroader57

The original birth certificate cannot be released to the public because that is illegal in Hawaii.

That is true, it is the same every where. But Obama can get a copy and show it. That woud be legal, they bascally just need his permission. Which he has not granted.

Ok, how difficult is this to understand? rdixiesunrise61 and RednBlue:

1. It is illegal in Hawaii to release an original birth certificate. However, Obama has produced an official copy.
2. Hawaii has verified that the copy is legitimate.

RednBlue, you state: "Gees I had to show an original copy of my BC to be a flight attendant."
Obama has produced a copy, just like you. The state of Hawaii has confirmed it.

rdixiesunrise61, you also ask for Obama to get a copy and show it.
He has, it has been on his website for a long time, well before the election.
The state of Hawaii has confirmed that it is a legitimate copy.

That should answer your questions.

Max Black --- That was not a CERTIFIED copy of a 'LIVE' birth certificate, just a copy of a birth certificate from the state Hawaii. Hawaii had a flukey law saying you can get a birth certificate saying you were born that they would issue. It was NOT to attest where you were born. Our kids were born in Hawaii over 35 years ago and what we got for 'LIVE' birth certificate was very, very different including place, time, date, doctor, parents, etc.

Missing Bush E-Mails Won't Be Released, Court Says

NEDRA PICKLER | May 19, 2009 12:39 PM EST

WASHINGTON — A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that the office that has records about millions of possibly missing e-mails from the Bush White House does not have to make them public.

It's is not, and should not be a "dead issue." The requirement is a requirement of the Constitution of the United States, the Law of the Land. The requirement was placed in the Constitution for important reasons of history (at the time the document was written) to protect the nation. The reasons are still valid. Unfortunately, too many people are ignorant of both history and the Constitution, and cannot fathom why some are concerned with a potential violation of this requirement.

Obama has been and continues to be very secretive about his past. The stunningly amazing thing is that same press and Democrat left wing that insisted on digging up everything and anything it could about John McCain and Sarah Palin ignore any questions about Barak Obama.

It's not about "conspiracy theorists" on the right. It's about the willingly ignorant on the left. Obama continues to play "rope-a-dope" with the issue. As many above have said, the issue could be resolved by disclosing the ORIGINAL certificate AND the other records which Presidential candidates willingly produce.

For example, someone above stated that "it would be illegal to disclose his school records; they are protected by the privacy act." Apparently this is a new protection for this president; George W Bush's records were all over the press, as, in fact, were Al Gore's records.

My experience has been that if someone appears to be hiding something, he probably is.

Unfortunately, too many people are ignorant of both history and the Constitution, and cannot fathom why some are concerned with a potential violation of this requirement.

Apparently, you are one of those people. Hawaii has certified his birth, repeatedly. The Constitution says the rest of us are obligated to accept Hawaii's record. Article IV, Section 1.

Now rednblue made some good points so before the readers all bash 'em let me say these are good points. Another interesting question is why after being so dismissive of the birthers, their intelligence, etc, ad infinitum, ostensibly soundly defeating them it’s being done still again? That is far more interesting than the question at hand.

Further I’d add it's questionable leadership to have not had the foresight to deal with this straight up in the beginning. President Obama saw it necessary to do so when Justice Robert’s messed up the oath. So just maybe this is a valid question, if for no other reason than it shows how the sides view the Constitution, it's details and the interpretation of the details. He was concerned about the Constitution then, why not about the details of how he is a citizen? The details are what are in question here.

When it’s all answered we can all sit down and have a beer together and talk it over. A national beer holiday, that kind of fits in with all this reasoning. Wouldn’t you be quicker to forgive or ask forgiveness of someone that came clean than someone that continued to keep things in the dark?

Mel Patrick --- You are so correct, it is an issue of law 'CONSTITUTIONAL' law. This is a nation of laws. What does he have to hide if there is nothing to hide? ---

Michelle K it is stockcar okay. If he paid for a copy with a raised seal it is his property and he can do what he wants with it and since he now lives outside of Hawaii he can release it.

I have yet to see a Birther scan his/her birth certificate and post a link on Newsvine.

Maybe they have "privacy" issues.

Dave, as pointed out above, it depends WHAT Hawaii actually certified. I'm VERY familiar with the Constitution, and Article 4, Section 1 (which, by the way, makes the issue of individual states deciding such issues as gay marriage, etc., untenable -- another issue altogether). However, in the case of a national issue, such as the eligibility of someone to be President of the United States, the language of the certification is of paramount importance.

My point simply was that the issue is significant, and that Mr. Obama himself has apparently chosen to avoid it. In fact (and I may have missed it), I don't recall him responding to the question, but rather refusing to do so. Again, unlike Mr. McCain.

I wonder why.

Mel, its pretty simple.
You ask what Hawaii actually certified.

From the article:
Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino:
"I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,"

That is the official statement for the state of Hawaii.

No one has said that the issue isn't important. What has been said is that the issue is already settled.

Also, Obama's website posted a refutation of the claims and a copy of his BC.
That answers the question.

He's not hiding anything. Hawaii prohibits the release of the original birth certificate. It's the same as in my state. All you get is the copy with a notary seal on it. The FBI checked out the original and that's good enough for me. SO GET OVER IT!

That just means that the hospital can't release the original. A copy of the Birth Certificate, with the signature of the doctor who delivered him will do. My wife has a BC from New Jersey, and Certificates of Live Birth from North Dakota and Idaho that were issued when she was adopted by her step father. That doesn't mean she was born in both of those states now does it?

I don't like Obama, but at first I thought this BC nonsense was just crazies grasping at straws. However, as more details come out, like the Indonesian passport and the Ford scholarship, I think I'd like to see a copy of that birth certificate.

like the Indonesian passport and the Ford scholarship

If either actually ever existed. Though I guess I haven't been keeping up on the birther inventions. When did the mythical Fulbright scholarship become a mythical Ford scholarship?

Anyone that doubts he is a natural born US citizen isn't worthy of arguing with. They live in a fantasy and should be rightfully ignored.

Period.

Dave

Your comment is a perfect example of why these people will never be satisfied with any factual or legal evidence presented. They were all over the fact that he had a Fulbright Scholarship as an Indonesian undergraduate to Occidental until a lot of us pointed out that the Fulbright Foundation does not give financial aid to undergraduates - only people working on master's or doctorates. He was a freshman and sophomore at Occidental.

So now it has suddenly been changed to a "Ford" scholarship.

Whatever is presented, when refuted by legalities and facts, it just gets changed to something else. These people are embarrassing their own elected representatives, making the entire Republican party, of which they are a tiny minority, look like a joke, and giving all the media on both sides a great boost in ratings, especially the more right-leaning ones, who are goading these folks on, letting them think someone really believes them, and then laughing all the way to the bank.

They keep pointing out that their court cases keep getting dismissed for lack of merit and yet they can't seem to understand what the entire legal system is trying to tell them.

They refuse to even recognize that their entire argument is against a Constitution they claim to honor, and they are totally ignorant of all of the privacy laws that have been passed since the 1980's.

I must admit, when this started, I thought it was just a passing thing because a few people were (1) unhappy with the outcome of the election, and (2) were having a problem adjusting to an election being won by someone other than a white male. Now, I am realizing that these feelings are really ingrained in these few and they will be in our eyes and ears until the media finally tires of them. It is almost past being entertaining.

So now it has suddenly been changed to a "Ford" scholarship.

And again, that kind of makes it impossible to believe the birther leaders are simply deluded. They are inventing facts, and constantly changing them when they are proven false. Whoever is feeding this stuff to the birther movement is spinning outright lies.

Dave are you comparing yourself to BHO...cause if you are apparently you fall way short....BHO is not joe schmo dave....he is the presidnet and he is hiding alot and lying even more so you make of this what you will...it is what it is....but doesn't meet the eye...

Dave are you comparing yourself to BHO...

No. What are you talking about?

allsgood

But it meets every legal, Constitutional, judicial, and Congressional law, statute, and decision in this great country. Not all of those will ever meet the individual eye of every individual citizen. That is why it is called a representative democracy and we have a Constitution which covers us all.

So let BHO show his long form birth certificate and be done with the whole affair

It wouldn't remotely be done. The birfers have several other attacks beyone the birth certificate. They can't be allowed to get their foot in the door.

Sorry about 4.28 Dave that was actually directed at Pinch

So much for the law, yea your right who cares anyway?

What law? According to Bush you can wiretap and torture anyone. Obama should just say you will not see it in the name of National Security.

Please note my comment above. Some care about the issue because it is a requirement of the Constitution of the United States, and we don't believe that Obama should be the exception to the law.

This is supposed to be "a nation of laws, not of men."

mel patrick - you are so right. This is not a "black or white" issue or a Democratic or Republican issue. If Obama is in fact not born in the USA, it is a criminal issue. What's so compelling about all this is that Obama himself can put an immediate end to it by simply showing a valid birth certificate, which he refuses to do. This should raise a flag with everyone. And exactly why are his academic records sealed? Could it be because he attended school here as a foreign student? Just saying...

Islandgirl,

What makes the issue compelling to me is that Obama has, to my knowledge, refused to address the issue at all. During the campaign, he refused to release the information that candidates routinely release as part of their "credentials." HE is keeping all this information out of view.

I think, though, that too much is vested by too many in the "we hate Bush and Cheney" mantra and in the "first black president" aura for anything to come of this. To question this guy is to be either a "right wing nut" or "racist," when it has nothing to do with either. It has to do with whether this man is qualified, under the Constitution, to fill the office he has assumed. In my opinion, he has already proven himself unqualified otherwise, but my opinion of policy (or anyone else's) has no bearing under the law. However, the requirement that eligibility to be President requires being a "natural born citizen of the United States" does.

Again, I have to wonder why he's keeping his records away from public view and analysis, and why we're asked to rely on statements from Hawaii that really do not address the questions asked.

Exactly - I also think that this came up in the news today to divert attention away from the Gates fiasco. Nothing in this news article showed anything new - just a rehash of what we already knew.

The last time I applied for a job (state job) I had to show my birth certificate, my passport, my driver's license, and my original social security card. Why then, does the President, who works for the American people, who gets paid with our tax dollars, not required to show anything concrete concerning his birth records? We employ him - we are entitled to this information.

The certificate they keep referring to is a complete fraud. Has no one noticed that the bottom has a notation that the form was revised on 11/2001? And no one in 1961 referred to their race as "African" (which is not a race at all). I am hoping that Obama was born in the USA, but until I see a valid birth certificate I will remain unconvinced.

Islandgirl, you're asking the logical questions -- which obviously makes you a nutcase moron (see comment below) like me.

I hope he was born in this country, too, but as you say, there are too many unanswered questions, not the least of which is "Why does Mr. Obama refuse to release the same records that other Presidential candidates routinely release?"

As far as the revision date: You're right. And what were the revisions? "African?" In 1961 the term was "Negro." Again, what were the revisions, and why?

He either was a foreign student (i.e., not a "natural-born citizen") or he committed fraud for purposes of gaining entrance to his school(s).

mel - sigh - I would rather be a "nutcase moron" than a blind sheeple like these people that think it is impossible that the President of the United States can possibly be a fraud. The corruption in our political system is appalling, and you would be hard pressed to find any elected (or appointed) official that cares about the people that afford them their cushy jobs that are paid for with hard earned tax dollars. Obama is no different, and very possibly, the worst offender of them all.

Mel, the problem is not the constitution.
I disagree with the above poster that said that if he spent 99% of his time in the USA he should be allowed to run and hold the office of the President. That is just wrong, and obviously against the constitution.

What I don't understand is why there is any question about this.
Obama has produced a legitimate copy of his BC. The state of Hawaii has verified this, several times.

What, exactly, is the issue?

Awww...isn't it cute? NewsVine has created a Love Connection. Let us know when you two get engaged, won't you? We'll throw you a virtual shower.

rjkardo -

Obama's "birth certificate" from Hawaii is a "short form". According to the Division of Vital Records, a short form can be obtained to prove a birth, but a short form CAN ONLY state, at the top of the form, "Birth Certificate Registration" or Registration Certificate of Birth" Only a LONG FORM can have the wording, Certificate of Live Birth". The long form provides the name of the parents, their address at time of birth, attending doctors, religion of parents and above all, at least (1) one parents signature. Now when Obama was born, Hawaii had an "open door" for birth registration. Anyone, from around the world, could enter Hawaii and request a birth certificate and be granted one without any proof of where they were born. Hawaii will not even recognize a short form as proof of birth as of now.

With a little research you can find a copy of the short form on the internet. Judge for yourself as to it's legality. All we are asking for is a long form certificate - what is so hard about producing one, unless of course, it doesn't exist?

Anyone, from around the world, could enter Hawaii and request a birth certificate and be granted one without any proof of where they were born.

False. Not one that says you were born in Honolulu.

Hawaii will not even recognize a short form as proof of birth as of now.

False

Islandgirl-395255, the state of Hawaii has twice now confirmed that the BC of Obama is legitimate and that he was born in Hawaii and is a US citizen.

Do you think you know this subject better than the head of the Hawaiian Dept of Health?

Also, Dave is right on both counts. If you received a COLB for a person not born in Hawaii it would state your location of birth, such as England or France, not as Hawaii. The 'short-form' is the official copy of the COLB as given by the state of Hawaii. And again, the state of Hawaii has twice now stated that the BC is official and that Obama is a US born citizen.

mel patrick, islandgirl, etc.

GIVE IT UP ALREADY. HE IS A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY, THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THIS AND VIRTUALLY NO EVIDENCE TO DETRACT FROM IT.

You are hysterical, you are wrong, you are fringe lunatics.

We ARE a nation of laws, and no law was broken here. Give it up already, you sound like retarded broken records...

common sense must fail you also as well as the constitution

mel and islandgirl

You are not factual on several counts. In 1961, people from Africa did not use the word "Negro". Actually, they still don't. They refer to themselves as African, or sometimes, especially if they have been to other Western countries, "black". Our country has always allowed people to self-disclose their "race" on any official form, so it is hardly surprising that Obama's father would say he was "African".

And you really need to read your own Constitution. You cannot cherry-pick two words and disregard the rest of it to suit your purpose. Article IV, Section 1 clearly gives every State the right to issue and certify whatever documents they choose, in issues concerning marriage, divorce, birth, death, even driver's licenses. States do not have to have the same format or laws, and the Article also says that we have State Reciprocity, which means that all states must accept the documents of other states. Hawaii is a Sovereign State. If their top officials certify that a person was born in their state, the Constitution says the word of that state must be honored by all who consider themselves loyal to this Constitution.

By the way, the short form is now used in many states since the passage of all the federal privacy laws starting in the 1980's, which override state laws. You cannot make public documents which disclose the names or other personal information of people who are not elected officials or have not given permission on the documents I mentioned above. I lost my birth certificate. I had to ask for another. The one I received looks almost identical to the one Hawaii released for Obama and nothing like my original. It has served for every purpose I have needed it for, including increases in my security clearances. Several colleagues from other states have similar ones, replacements all. The names of hospitals, doctors, witnesses, etc., are no longer needed for public view, to avoid compromising their privacy, as long as the state certifies it.

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot call yourselves loyal Americans and yet disregard an entire Section of this country's Constitution and Sovereignty of an entire State of this Union given therein.

There are court cases about it.

People are enriching some happy lawyers in the pursuit of this nonsense. Someone is actually *paying* to chase this down.

I wish I had such free time and money.

The problem is they're not smart enough to come up with effective ways to oppose Obama's policies, so they go after whatever straws they can find to drive him out of office. It's little different from when the neo-cons went after Clinton. They won't stop until they get Obama, whether it's for not documenting his birth to their satisfaction, lying about sex, or whatever. If challenging the birth certificate doesn't get Obama, the neo-cons won't stop attacking him until they find something that does. Count on it.

And, like Clinton, they'll waste millions of tax dollars chasing ghosts. Sad. REALLY sad.

And their calling the blacks racist what a joke, I swear this is beyond stupid, a Hawaii state offical just confirmed for the second time that he was born in Hawaii and still these idiots can't get it, I guess the only way they would believe is if they delivered him them selves, and the other idiots would want more proof, what a BUNCH OF MORONS...

Jenny, you know Obama is not only not a citizen but that he is also a Muslim...just kidding. I don't know if these people are more wicked or dim, who could imagine all this hullabulloo about nothing? And as an earlier responder wrote, with two wars and an economy in crisis, this is what they think about...

Michelle K

If he was a Muslim do you think they would love him less? These people here seems to run around in WHITE SHEETS after work BURNING CROSSES, they think this is the BIG BLACK CONSPIRACY the only problem is that state offical was Oriental, just imagine if she were BLACK. I'm playing the RACIST card and guess what I'm not black ...

The official in Hawaii was an American, and so is Obama.

The acts of the Republicans are fulfilling the requirements of:

1. trea-son [tree-zuhn] the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

2. con·spir·a·cy (kən-spîr'ə-sē) An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

The repukes won't let it rest cause they believe if they keep repeating the same lies, eventually people will forget it's a lie and start believing. Remember Iraq and the connection to 9/11? If they can get enough believers, they won't stop until they get their own way. And if the blood of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis doesn't lose them a second of sleep, creating a false rumor won't faze them at all.

They are stupid but they're even more dishonest and nasty and corrupt than

than stupid. And they are SOOOOO stupid.

Contrary to conservatives' claims, Bush has not been forthcoming in release of military service records; Even White House contradicted Hannity's claim that Bush signed form allowing document release
September 10, 2004 11:55 am ET

Published on Friday, July 9, 2004 by the New York Times

Pentagon Says Bush Records of Service Were Destroyed

by Ralph Blumenthal

HOUSTON - Military records that could help establish President Bush's whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon.

Hey Dal, Are you feeling alright yea that hate monger thing is pretty bad. Hate is a big word becareful how you use it. I love everybody! I just want to see like most normal common sense people his true original birth certificate so we can put this all to rest. So as far as hate monger I'm sorry but you are way off base on that.

Oh on Bush we are discussing Obama right now.

Len, did you read the article?
Hawaii confirmed (again) that Obama's BC is official.

So what is the problem?

Ok. As I said higher up, I don't like Obama. To me it seems like he's so interested in setting his place in history that he isn't considering the long term rammifcations of his policies. I would however like to believe that this birth certificate issue is just a lot of bunk. But since I have a good pair of Ray-Bans I haven't been blinded by his brilliant light, so I need proof.

Let me ask all the believers out there a couple of questions.

If Bush had his military records sealed and spent over half a mil keeping them that way, would you have believed the general who said that he served in good faith? Hell No you wouldn't! You'd be demanding that those records be released.

So why should those of us who are starting to question the legitimacy of the generic short form believe that Obama is spending all that money because he "just doesn't want to" or "doesn't have to" show a copy of the birth certificate signed by parents and doctors?

True, the hospital cannot legally release it to the public, but they have it in their possession and Obama can easily request a copy. I've done it myself, because it was part of a job application process, it costs about $10.

Why did he have an Indonesian passport and how did he go to public school in Indonesia if he was a US citizen? If he was a citizen of another country and reapplied for US citizenship, he's ineligible for the presidency. You can blame it on Bush, McCain, Palin, Cheney or the so called birthers, but none of them wrote the Constitution.

Last, and this one keeps getting brushed under the rug, how did he qualify for a scholorship that's only available to foreign students? He was an adult when he applied for this so it wasn't his parents' decision. Was he a foreigner or did he commit fraud to get a scholorship he wasn't qualified for?

I know, I Know; I'm an ignorant, bullheaded racist who probably loved the previous administration and think that Rush Limbaugh is the voice of heaven. It's amazing that I was able to get out of the basement past all the crosses I have ready to burn. Let's see, any other idiotic stereotypes I missed? The Obamites can call us all the names they want but that doesn't answer any questions.

Why did he have an Indonesian passport and how did he go to public school in Indonesia if he was a US citizen?

Why do you post ridiculous allegations as if they were facts? Nobody has shown any record of an Indonesian passport, and it looks as if his stepfather lied on a school registration form. And, I may point out, neither of these claims has the slightest bit of relevance to whether he was born in Honolulu.

That's the problem with birthers. They have so many different, conflicting claims about Obama that there's in point in trying to answer one claim; they've got another. They can't even decide what country Obama's supposed to be a citizen of.

Last, and this one keeps getting brushed under the rug, how did he qualify for a scholorship that's only available to foreign students?

Another totally unsupported claim, with nothing to back it up. The birthers can't even decide on what scholarship he's supposed to have gotten. The usual one named, Fulbright, is available to American students, but there doesn't seem to be any proof he ever got that one.

In regard to the foreign student scholarship, try these:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_has_a_smoking_gun_been_found_to.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/occidental.asp

http://obama.voterfactcheck.com/facts/ob/10/scholarship_indonesian_citizen.shtml

Angel -

factcheck, in case you weren't aware, is a division of Annenberg - and both William Ayres and Obama worked on the Annenberg Challenge.

snopes can't get anything right. they claim they have seen and verified Obama's original birth certificate - considering that the date on the short form certificate is June 2007, that is a flat out falsehood. snopes also says that teacher barbara nelson confirmed that Dr. West delivered Obama - when in fact that is not what was stated.

Geeesshh DeeDee...

Is there no end to your conspiracy theories? First you gripe about Snoops, then Factcheck.

It would appear, child, that you have spent entirely too much time at the Republican "Well of Conspiracies" trough.

DeeDee said:

factcheck, in case you weren't aware, is a division of Annenberg

Yes, Annenberg. Started by Walter Annenberg. Ambassador appointed by Richard Nixon. Awarded the Medal of Freedom by Ronald Reagan. Not exactly a flaming liberal organization, you know....

But keep looking - I'm sure you'll find a conspiracy somewhere. You might want to check into the mind-control properties of M&M's - I hear the green ones mess with you.

Get a grip. Earth to Humpy Dumpy (boy, now doesn't that name just say it all?). Where do you people come up with this crap?

So where is the proof he isn't a citizen? So far all I've seen is raving "well ... well ... he hasn't blown it up 5000X and pasted it on the side of a building for everyone to see!" or some other theories that would involve near instant transporter beaming from Kenya to Hawaii.

Think about this - if Obama wasn't a citizen, don't you thinkg Clinton wouldn't have found that out and used it against him when it was obvious he was beating her in the primaries? Do you honestly think Clinton would let a thing like that go without her notice, when it was the difference between President (because, with the economy and Palin, McCain kind of was doomed) and ending up Secretary of State?

Think about it people.

The repugs are desperate...just looking for anything...this just proves it. BTW, I also thought this was old news and had been resolved before he took the oath of office...oh well.

aqua

Why should you care? No one cares we went to war on fake documents so why should we care about documents now? Thousands dead

Its 3:45am and I just woke up my neighbors laughing at your post. Oh my God, I havent laughed that hard at a post on here yet and I remember the "scandal" about Bo's (the dog) origin. Remember how they tried to spin that into a scandal. Maybe you mouthbreathers would like to see Bo's extended pedigree as well.

Man. Whew. Got a head rush from laughing so hard. Really you folks out there in Palin country would have been better off just leaving this issue alone. For the rest of us with some kind of common sense, let's go have an adult conversation on another topic and leave the "kids" to play. Honestly, you right wingers are just the funniest people. Does being able to suspend ALL belief in reality what you have to do to be in the party of "family values and morals"? Would that you'd spend as much effort into forcing your politicians who made this mess in 8 years to come up with a plan that's better than what the Dems have come up with, besides ignoring the mortgage refinance scams going on in every state, instead, your party has chosen one corrupt, philadering would be great white hope after another. This is NOT how you prove yourself worthy to lead, to allow your constituents to take on and support such an idiotic stance. It IS the thing to do if you're choosing to OBFUSCATE the truth and try to hamstring to recovery of the country so you can once again come in after 8 years of recovery and hopefully a sane level of prosperity and bring the economy back to its knees, while enriching your friends with the help of the abovementioned mouthbr- er, supporters. Silly silly silly people.

But y'all dittoheads, religious right, eyes right, whatever you call yourselves are really gonna kick yourselves someday for being SO stupid. But keep up the good work, the more nutty you guys get the more SANE people leave your party and come over to the Dems where grassroots organizations are working to repair the damage of the Bush years, fixing the environment and getting America's infrastructure repaired - while creating jobs. Not giving public jobs to their friends in the private sector businesses, but real jobs that Americans can apply for and get. There arent any companies getting tax breaks and huge uncontested contracts because the Vice President once ran the company, not in this administration. This administration didnt SIT BACK and allow BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars to go unaccounted for an illegal war. But by all means, PLEASE focus on Barack's birth certificate, because I think this is going to become the pivotal moment for alot of Americans when they realized that the Republican party and apparently most of its followers have lost their damn minds.

And its funny to boot.

Did the White House release forged documents about Bush's service record?

Posted by Mark Frauenfelder, September 9, 2004 12:54 PM | permalink

Charles at Little Green Footballs presents a persuasive argument that the memos recently released by the White House about President Bush's National Guard service are forgeries.

I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoft’s Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date “18 August 1973,” then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian.
And my Microsoft Word version, typed in 2004, is an exact match for the documents trumpeted by CBS News as “authentic.” The spacing is not just similar—it is identical in every respect.

tyler:

Rustle around in your e-mail box for last October for the e-mail I sent explaining why I did what did for which you gave me a day off.

I'll tell you know what I told you then: This will never end.

Tyler I read the article and frankly it oversimplifies the real question....show the long form birth certificate sgned by the physician and all the hype will be gone...what could be so hard about that??

Because all the hype WON'T BE GONE. It'll just change. Because you people will always come up with something new ( and really weird). Despite the fact that Obama has actually been doing a good job, you have found nothing good to say about him.

Because all the hype WON'T BE GONE. It'll just change

If he delivers the BC to them, the next step will be claiming he gave up citizenship when he went to Malaysia as a kid, or he can't be a citizen because his father was Kenyan, or some other nonsense. But with one difference: if he gives in to them on the BC, he legitimizes them, and gives them a voice. You can't afford to do that with crackpots. The Bush administration never did with the truthers. You can't do it with the birfers either.

See how you on the left seem to think everyone else should think just like you when a simple and straightforward show the long form would solve the whole issue...just IMO

Oh and it is really fun to make the left go ballistic as well....so you dems keep up the attacks and everyone else will continue to antagonize just to show what a mob you can be...

It would not solve the issue. Just give the wingnuts recognition as they come up with new excuses not to accept him. Denying them recognition is the only smart way to go.

allsgood said:

See how you on the left seem to think everyone else should think just like you when a simple and straightforward show the long form would solve the whole issue

The only people I've ever heard babbling on about the "long form" are birthers - I'm not even convinced there is such a thing, and that the state would issue it. I'm fairly certain the state of Texas won't give me any more for a birth certificate for my son than what has been shown for Obama (in other words, there is no "long form").

So here's a simple question - very simple and straightforward, and it should have a simple and straightforward answer: Why *should* Obama show anything more than what he's shown? What he has shown meets all legal requirements for proving place of birth. Should he satisfy anyone's curiosity on anything that anyone requests from him? (OK, that's two questions)

aqua you remind me of another guy who is living in a dream world sitting on Bush's ranch with him roping calves. Let me give you some advice what Bush would say. He could care less about Obama or hurricanes as long as he can smoke his cigars and eat ribs.

You Wackos! There was an official copy published! You are an embarrassment to the rest of us Americans!! That should be good enough! You don't need to see the Doctor's name, ect, ect. You know, I think we should make all those senators and all those Birther Wackos publish their Birth certificates! Let's make sure their not a bunch of ...oh.... Illegal Aliens... Ooooh. Those neocons are Wacked! They're expecting Dooms Day... and preparing for it! (Not Kidding) And some of them are neo nazis, and belong to hate groups.

Teri,

The only problem with your suggestion about "birthers" having to publish their birth certificates is.... they can and would. Why can't Obama? I have very little doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. I am however very curious to know why all of Obama's school records are sealed. Any ideas?

So are everyone elses so what? John McCain did not produce his records either just the fact he came in darn near last in his class. I seriously doubt Obama can go lower than that.

You are an embarrassment to the rest of us Americans!!

Ok up until a few days ago I may have thought that also. Now I am really starting to belive this is not from inside the US. Americans are smarter than this I would hope.

As far as the birthers producing their records all you have to do is go down to the courthouse in your state and ask for your original birth certificate to see what you can get.

OK logdump you obviously need a reading lesson. The last sentence of my post was what we call a question. We structure sentences this way when we want someone to provide information to us. I am afraid "So are everyone elses so what?" is not what we would call an answer to my question since it is not true.

"As far as the birthers producing their records all you have to do is go down to the courthouse in your state and ask for your original birth certificate to see what you can get."

I can't answer for others but I know what I received and is now in a safety deposit box. A form that lists every detail about my birth. Including, but not limited to, my feet prints (like a finger print but my feet), the hospitals name, the doctors name, the head nurses name, my blood type, my parents names (including my mother's maiden name), the city, county, state they resided in, my length and weight and other information I am unable to recall. The document also has a raised seal of authenticity.

But as I said earlier, I am not even questioning his birth location. I am however curious as to why all of his school records have been sealed.

The only problem with your suggestion about "birthers" having to publish their birth certificates is.... they can and would.

dmac... I want to see original birth certificates. Not certified copies, but original birth certificates.

dmac:

Everybody's school records are "sealed" under the Privacy Act. My BC from PA has my Mom and Dad, Me, the County, State, Date, the registrar, it is 5x8, it is hand written. That's it. I wrote PA and asked for a more detailed one and received a response that what I have is what I get. There are not uniform standards, it is per state. The BC he presented meets the Full Faith and Credit Clause and is admissible in all courts of law. Just because you are curious does not mean you have a right to the info.

The next argument, if he somehow shows the vault copy will be....Obama was born in Kenya but his mother CLAIMED he was born other than a hospital in Hawaii and lied and said he was born at home, on the beach, in a field etc and Hawaii would have no way of knowing she was lying so they issued a BC but he could still have been born in Kenya. It will never end, people will make up crap forever, I wouldn't show anything else either, it just fans the flames. Birthers will always have another scenario.

Okay Teri and dmac you setup a site for posting and I will post my original birth certificate which my Mother got when I was born and I will not black anything out and the certificate of live birth I received when all this bs started about BOs documents. By the way I used the certificate of live birth to get my passport with no problems. When I was born it was standard practice to give the original to the parents along with the hospital record of your birth especially if your parents where catholic. As always just my opinion.

dmacc225 - There are some that believe his school records are sealed because it shows that he attended as a foreign student.

Islandgirl -- there are also some who believe that the earth is flat and only 6000 years old. Doesn't make it so, does it?

Islandgirl -- there are also some who believe that the earth is flat and only 6000 years old. Doesn't make it so, does it?

lol, There's also people who worship Al Gore and think that all land will be under water in 25 years. The only problem is that these same people have been telling us that since the late seventies when they said we'd all be under water by the year 2000! So what do we learn from this? Just because a nutjob liberal says something it doesn't make it reality!

Luke...Thanks for proving my point, but I think you are confused. I'm pretty sure Islandgirl isn't a liberal...and it's really rude of you to call her a nutjob.

Luke...Thanks for proving my point, but I think you are confused. I'm pretty sure Islandgirl isn't a liberal...and it's really rude of you to call her a nutjob.

Carianne: Yeah, just like a true liberal you try to hide your real ideologies and blame someone else for your party's failures. We all know who the real nutjobs are...

Luke...thanks again for proving my point.

Luke - thanks for the assist. As far as Carianne, pay no attention to her. I suspect she is a silly teenager just trying to get a rise out of people. She never contributes anything intelligent, mature, or factual to this post.

BG would that make you a wacko for hating bush?? turn about is fair play...

Because this is the only lame a** thing that they can come up with. Well, maybe not the only thing, but the rest of it is just as lame.

Because they have no LIFE!

Because we want this wolf in sheeps clothing OUT of office. He is changing this country for the worst with his Chicago Thug Cabinet.

LoudMouth

The wolf already is out

TO: Joe Veteran; Because Joe, it's just like all the crap the repubs in congress invent .... they throw the sh_t to see what sticks! They know their are idiots out there that will believe everything they say.

Bush a wolf? LOL. That's an insult to wolves You give him too much credit. I don't hate or blame Bush for all the problems we are stuck with.

Cheney was the real snake in the White House

I does not surprise me many in the right are racists.

Ask Terri Schiavo. Not Bush or Republican was there to help her from being killed. Hypocrites.

You talk like you believe Obama made all his girlfriends get abortions and wants to force all women to get one.

Abortion lover indeed. More fear tactics from the far right wing nuts.

Even Sarah Palin admitted she considered aborting her child. She exercised her right to make the choice she did.

deadon

Where under a rock? I'm from Hawaii also proof it show us what you thought was corrupt .... Put up or Shut up ...

Boy, it's like teaching Sanskrit to my cat. It just doesn't get through.

Very small words. Say them aloud. Have your five-year old read them to you.

Hawaii. Has. Provided (sorry, too many syllables, let's try again)

Nice ... people ... have ... given ... official (look it up) copy ... to ... us.

I'm usually not this insulting, but my God, you guys are just beyond thick.

Wow the birthers would not believe it if they seen Obama born with their own eyes. What a bunch of nuts.

aqua:

who the f**k are you to say Obama's BC isn't real and why should we believe YOU?

aqua surf-1123675

And if you saw the BC you would then say it was a fake, give us a break you fruit cakes ...

If you look back its the same people over and over again posting the same tripe. This is not a groundswell but just a few idiots talking out the part of their body that usually expels waste.

Sarah - I do not know what hospital I was born in, I do not know what hospital my siblings were born in, I do not know what city a sister was born in. It is not on my birth certificate, I have never seen theirs - guess what; everybody in this country is not exactly like YOU. There is no standard for BC's in this country, it is by state.

everybody in this country is not exactly like YOU

I believe that is the main reason for this faux controversy.

The document can't be made public because it's illegal to release birth certificates to the public in Hawaii.

It's Associated Press, by the way. Not MSNBC.

If FOX noise said it they still would not believe it. Birthers are nuts. Way to go Repubs racisits and aliens.

And as soon as the BC is shown to all and sundry:

"It's a FAKE! Look! The doctor signed his signature perfectly! That's absolute proof!"

"Wait! I think the "O" is a "Q".. This isn't his! He stole someone else's birth certificate!"

"His party paid Hawaii for that certificate! I read they found the real one in Kenya signed by Nelson Mandela!"

"Hey! That's MY birth certificate! They just used white-out on the name!"

"Now show us the clerk who issued the original! If you can't, its definitely a fake!"

"How do we know this 98 year-old doctor is the real doctor who attended your birth?! We want proof!"

"Where's the umbilical cord? What, they didn't save the umbilical cord? That proves he wasn't born here!"

"The attending nurse! No supporting evidence from an attending nurse, no real birth certificate!"

But, ultimately, the best and loudest outcry will announce,

"I'm too stupid to know when to quit! That's absolute proof it must be a fake!"

Darling. I was born the same year as Barack and I happen to have a PHOTOSTAT copy of my birth certificate. Not the original, a COPY. It was given to my mother when I was born. And yes it does show all of the pertinent info, but that was a more innocent time before people made it a career to go to city halls and halls of record around the country and get a copy for themselves and assume that identity. When I lost track of my NY state BC, the copy they sent had only the barest of info, my name, when I was born, where I born and the date, no time no seal just the barest info. It didnt even have my parents' name on it.

And aqua. log, Barb - its called SPELLCHECK, anyone can use it and you dont need an original BC to use it.

Talk about the sound of one hand clapping.

If FOX noise said it they still would not believe it.

dal, It was mentioned just last night on Bill O'reilly. According to Bill, this is "a non-issue." It was established 8 months ago in a Factor investigation that Mr. Obama was indeed born in the US. Actually, last thursday Lou Dobbs on CNN had a piece about this controversy in which he stated that he too, believes "Mr. Obama to have been born in the US." Unfortunately, there are now people who are calling for CNN to fire Mr. Dobbs soley because of his story of this controversy.

If Mr. Obama has trouble going forward, it will not be because of his birth status, rather because of his policies, in my opinion.

Middleloader ---- No Hawaii can not release it but Obama can produce Certificate of 'LIVE' Birth to lay everything to rest which he really needs to do so the country can function properly. When someone refuses to produce any documentation, it leaves many questions for 'doubting Thomases'. Hawaii will issue a certificate of birth which only states you were born and that is what was offered by 'O'. The 'LIVE' Birth Certificate shows time, place,date, parents, people present, hgt, wgt, etc. That is what people want to see.

Can anyone tell me if Hawaii has an open records act? Just curious. I know we do in Texas.

Even if they did, an open records act would not trump HIPAA.

Hipaa?

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) includes huge numbers of privacy provisions. Hawaii is not the only state that redesigned their form to show much less information than it used to.

So if you wanted to get a copy of my birth certificate in San Diego Ca. you'd be refused because of HIPAA?

Then what's the point of having an open records act?

So if you wanted to get a copy of my birth certificate in San Diego Ca. you'd be refused because of HIPAA?

I would hope I would have been refused long before HIPAA.

Then what's the point of having an open records act?

To make records of government actions available. Not to allow you to violate another citizen's privacy.

robynlewisTX said:

Can anyone tell me if Hawaii has an open records act? Just curious. I know we do in Texas.

"Open records" wouldn't cover that.

Incidentally, I lived in Texas, and both of my kids were born there. When I got a copy of my son's birth certificate for registering him in school, it had the following info: his name, parents names, county of birth (not even city, much less hospital), and date. Official paper and raised seal (looked almost identical to what Obama released, actually). That's all they would issue as an official record. I know things change from place to place and over time (my daughter's has more info), but for people asking for something with birth weight, hospital, doctor, etc. - it's completely likely that, like Texas, they don't issue anything with that information on it.

Time for those who believe as you say they do to rise up and take control of that party before people like these kooks finish destroying it. I also believe in a two party system we need imput from both sides. Right now we only have one viable party participating. Luckily the "Blue dogs" are contributing to the mix while "republicans" are off on wild goose chases.

Whether you are a Repub or Dem, you'd have to be a few cards short of a deck if you believe that any of his plans for America won't send what use to be the Greatest country in the world down a steep slope into oblivion. I for one don't need you, Rush Limbaugh or anyone else to tell me that we are headed in the wrong direction.

1 of many - define "his". Were you concerned by the policies of the last administration as well or did you just arrive to the (tea) party. Waste, corruption, pandering to big business and ingoring the constitution didn't just start in January 2009.

Time for those who believe as you say they do to rise up and take control of that party before people like these kooks finish destroying it

exactly. Sorry to inform you westernskies but if you vote republican, then by definition you get lumped in with these crackpots.

Try denouncing them once inawhile and we'll start to respect "true conservatives" once again...

Whether you are a Repub or Dem, you'd have to be a few cards short of a deck if you believe that any of his plans for America won't send what use to be the Greatest country in the world down a steep slope into oblivion.

Newsflash, that slide started long before Obama became a household name. You make yourself sound as crazy as the birthers with nonsense like this...

Grover try using the same logic with the lame assed dems running the house and senate...ie. Pelosi and Reid...

JasonAK,

Are you from Arkansas or Alaska?

AK is alaska

Mia ain't too bright.

iseenothing,

Don't take much to be brighter than you!

Don't take much to be brighter than you!

But you still have oh, so far to go before you reach that lofty plateau...

But you still have oh, so far to go before you reach that lofty plateau...

I am soooooooo impressed it only took you an hour to come up with that reply...did you have to look up those big words in the dictionary?

Another person who knows nothing about which they speak. DOes Hawaii have a long form. Is there a long form? Is there a master birth certificate or is it a ledger entry. Is there an original or is it on microfilm? You see there are differences from state to state and changes to the rules over time. Over the years I have accumulated three different copies of my Birth certificate. All three are different but all have a notary seal indicating it is a true copy of the original.

Jason,

Even if what you say is true (it isn't), Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen. Obama is a "natural born" U.S. citizen by virtue of his mother's citizenship.

I think he came in a basket like Moses because most of the chronies in here are still worshipping their messiah!

If he was the Messiah why would we need healthcare? Feel pretty silly don't ya.

Dal, quit taking it so literal. Did I hit a nerve with the messiah term? No I don't feel silly. I should have said the anti'Christ to help you understand then.

TO: LoudMouth; Yeh... Obama is pretty wonderful!

Loudmouth you mean palin.

Why did the liberals make a porn about Palin? But nothing negative on Obama?? Hmmmm. Makes you wonder. I don't see any SNL skits on Obama or Late Night jokes about him..... Obama mania will die sooner or later!

Obama is so unconcerned that he has spent nearly $1 million to try to hide all his records. Yeah seem like Otard as something to hide.......hmm...That's a lot of money to spend to keep records hidden (unless George Soros is paying that bill too).

Scott; It was published, confirmed by several times over again... and the birth announcement in the paper from 47 years ago was also dug up!

Let's see all you birthers certificates! How ridiculous!!!