I'm 100% okay with these "disruptions". I am documenting these events carefully.

When it's my turn to say what I want at whatever political meeting occurs then my expectation is that I will be allowed to do so.

I appreciate that these demonstrations are occuring, and it's clear no one is stopping them, so when it's my turn, I'm going to stand up and scream my thoughts and I expect everyone to listen. Period.

So the solution is violence???? Not a logical discussion with a doctor about what, if any extraordinary measures I want taken to preserve my life and keep Congress and political hacks from making that decision for my by passing some emergency Terry Shiavo law???? Get real

Who suggested this oddball idea to you? Glen beck? Seriously pal, seek some honest facts, not the contrived, ignorant moonbeams from the arse of Fox News

Are these disruptions any worse than the anti war protesters demonstrating at military funerals?

We haven't outlawed or stop those leftwingnutjobs!

Let everybody speak their minds, it's also good for the venting process.

If the politicians can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

This administration made this a political issue, now deal with the politics.

Are these disruptions any worse than the anti war protesters demonstrating at military funerals?

appraizer, if you can show me where those protests stopped the other side from being able to voice their own opinion, then I'll agree with you. But, I doubt you can ever show that. The current mob activity at these town meetings have stopped the other side from being able to speak.

Amen, NCCarol!  When a person has nothing worthwhile to say they tend to be loud and obnoxious. 

As a senior, it would be to my benefit if universal healthcare weren't passed.  With medicare, I have the best insurance I've had in my life.  My husband's VA medical care is even better.  We had BC/BS, United, Cigna, etc. over the years. Why people don't want gov't run healthcare is beyond me.  They don't know what they're saying, and are puppets of greedy insurance and pharmaceutical companies.  There will be some limitations on tests and procedures for elderly like me.  Still, I hope all can have the kind of basic coverage we have.  Let's hear it for quality of life for all!

You should probably do your homework #1.4. Those "anti war protesters" you are referring to are actually a group of religious conservatives from Kansas who protested at the funerals of war heroes on the crazy basis that these fine young men and women were defending homosexuals!

When have "leftwingnutjobs" protested at military funerals? I've never heard of that happening, and if it has, it has been on such a minimal scale that it has not been reported on the news. Have you been listenging to Rush again?

Who say these  people are conservatives?  Can't Democrats be opposed to Obama's Health Takeover?  Maybe they like their current insurance plans or maybe they love their Parents and would like to see them around for a long time.

Such a bullsh*t article, always the media bias shows through and no reporting of facts.

Tyrants fear the people's voice, their actions even more so.

The State run media will follow their orders as handed down by Obama and will try and dismiss the american people speaking up as a mob.

where was all the concern when thousands of illegals gathered in Los Angeles and burned the american flag, vandalized building and created mayhem? Oh, that's right, they were excercising their constitutional rights?

More whining from the liberals. Attack the messenger and avoid answering to the message.

People don't want government control over healthcare. They said no to HillaryCare and they're saying no to ObamaCare.

Tyranny will prevail if the good remain silent.

Hey, "appraizer," I believe the protesters at military funerals are right wingers protesting homosexuality or some other such nonsense. It would be nice if you would use facts in your arguments, although that appears to be a bit foreign to "rightwingnutjobs." Do you have any examples of protests at funerals involving "leftwingnutjobs" or are you just attempting to incite (kind of like the "freedom of speech" folks at the town hall meetings.

It might be worth remembering, by the way, that freedom of speech is guaranteed to individuals, not corporations and lobbying groups that try to pass themselves off as individuals (which is, by the way, fraudulent, but I guess that's OK when we are speaking of conservative discourse, right?).

Please do the nation a favor and make the "interesting change" to your OWN life before doing anything else to anyone else. Your fear that some bureaucrats can decide whether or not your aging parents can have medical care due to their age is already happening. Private insurance companies, the ones you are working for whether you know it or not, are doing it all the time now. Besides, your conservative bias is extreme and it takes away your credibility. Stop assuming you are the majority! Conservatives hold town hall meetings where non-conservatives aren't even allowed in, let alone a chance to speak! How hypocritical can you people be?!?! Yes, non-conservatives protest, but we do it in a way that allows the discussion to continue, not stop it completely.

"Industrial Strength" - that's fitting...

"State run media"? Give me a break...are the editors little green men as well? And so-called liberals are the cause of all the world's ills too, correct?

Tyranny, by the way, would be represented by the bullying that is going on at these meetings where "individuals" are expressing their "personal thoughts" (even though many have been identified as staffers and other non-residents of the districts where these forums are being held).

I am all for freedom of speech and the right to protest perceived wrongs, but it needs to be honest, not this contrived garbage that is going on. But you likely don't care much about that as long as you can get your heroes' opinions heard (e.g., Beck, Limbaugh, et al).

And why is it that when I want to say something it's awful and whining, but when you want to say something I should just sit down, shut up, and listen or I'm impeding your rights? Nice.

Industrial Strength, when you say "Tyrants fear the people's voice," you are talking about the conservatives. You applaud the disruption at these meetings by people who REFUSE TO LET THE OTHER SIDE HAVE ANY WORD. Your lovely protesters are PREVENTING OPEN DIALOG. Why is that? You fear what they have to say.

Just sit down and listen and keep and open mind. THIS is what is being prevented. Once you have the facts, THEN make up your mind. Frankly, this is not happening.

Everyone needs to have a chance to speak up but not at the expense of NOBODY getting a word in edgewise.

The way i see it these people in congress and the senate are going to have to run for office again so its up to them if they would like to be voted in again so if i was them i would listen to the people

Free speech is fine, but use what you were hopefully taught in school and by your parents: wait your turn and don't yell.

A shouting match is not an exchange of ideas. Shouting down someone who just wants to explain and get ideas isn't either. It's immature. And it leads sometimes to violence, which stupid.

There's been plenty of protests FOR health care reform, right in front of the White House. Wonder why those never get seen on TV.

People aren't being disruptive merely to be disruptive. They're being forced to be disruptive because the left simply doesn't listen. They didn't listen to the Republicans, no big deal there, then they didn't listen to members of their own party, should have been a red flag but instead they took them in the back room and "talk some sense into them", and now they're not listening to their constituents so they're "an angry mob". Amazing!!! Talk about the mass misrepresentation going on in Congress right now before you spout off about a few outbursts that interrupt Obama's propaganda machine!!! At least the media is on his side.

You Kool-Aid drinkers want to talk about an open dialogue when the Democrats never listen to anything at all. The CBO says none of the proposed plans reduce costs and in fact increase costs so the Democrats say "we're not listening to them, they're wrong." You don't want an open dialogue, you want to serve your Kool-Aid and have everyone just take it, better yet you just want the American people to shut up, turn around and grab their ankles, sounds real Democratic to me!!!

The amount of ignorance about the proposed healthcare plan on this page is staggering. It reads like a FOX pundits talking points paper. OK listen people these are the FACTS. The government is NOT going to take over healthcare, I repeat this is NOT a government takeover. Employers who offer insurance will still have too and people CAN KEEP their current insurance AND doctors. What IS being proposed is a "public option" for the millions of people who aren't currently insured or for those who would rather get their insurance from the government. Well why wouldn't employers just drop all of their coverage and let the government pay for insurance so they can save money? The answer is that they can't, they are NOT allowed to opt into this program under the rules of the proposed bill. This program is ment to create a little competition for the insurance companies who HAVE been rationing healthcare for years, denying coverage and standing between you and your doctor. Also NOONE is going to tell your parents/grandparents that they have to choose how they want to die, pure lies. The fact is that yes as people get old they may be denied some expensive treatment to prolong the life of an 85 year old for 3 more years, but there is an easy solution if you don't want this to happen, simply pay for health insurance from the private sector. Problem solved. Please people become educated about the FACTS and remember that we have 50 MILLION uninsured and 5 MILLION children without healthcare. We desperately need things to change as currently the number one form of debt in this country is medical bills. Quit fear mongering and spinning pure lies to maintain the status quo. Think for yourself and review the FACTS.

I think the issue here is if we really have a democracy or not. If ordinary law abiding people are being left out of the process about something that being "discussed", by a group of officials with corrupted self serving interests, then by all means their meetings should be disrupted.

The bigger problem however is that I am not really sure we have a democracy in this country anymore; not when our elected officials go against the will of the majority of the people like granting bailouts to big banks and insurance companies and auto manufactures against the people's will at at taxpayers expense.

They might say we have a democracy, but it's certainly not the kind of democracy I was taught about in school.

what if it were an insurance bureaucrat? what kind of change then?

The outbursts do not help the cause - however - they do get attention and do take some of the free air time the the President seems to take full - over - excessive advantage of.  When will the administration learn that if an issue needs that much convincing to accept - it is likely a bad idea.  Just like "selling " the economic package - bunk -pure bunk.

Our President doean't lead - he campaigns endlessly.

Yes, commonsense. Those are the facts. All true. They really are what's proposed, regardless of what FOX says. Heck, even the term "public option" contains the word OPTION.

But don't try to explain it, because those who don't want to hear won't (the yelling prevents it), and are willing to embrace the opposite just becuase it's the opposite. Same with the birther argument. The facts are there. Snopes, politifact, factcheck, and so many other unbiased sources before one even treads into left-wing territory...

But this isn't about health care. It's not about common sense. It's about fear. Unfounded fear, but fear nonetheless. And that leads to horrible consequences, especially when it's fed by the media (mainly, FOX).

I am not really sure we have a democracy in this country anymore; not when our elected officials go against the will of the majority of the people.

Huh? What makes you think it's a majority that oppose medical reform? The way the system works now DOESN'T work and needs a major overhaul. Open your eyes. People are just one illness away from bankruptcy. Yeah, that's a great system?!? Pul-leeze.

By the way, that election in November? A majority voted for Obama. Both popular and electoral (unlike someone else we know).

common sense, How do you know what the final bill will say? I haven't heard what bill that congress will be voting on yet, so I am not sure what the final version will and will not cover. I attempted to read the 1,017 page proposed bill, but the way that it reads does not make it possible for non-lawyers to really be able to make sense of it. And just because a section does not state something does not really assure that down the line it may be interpreted to mean something else. And as quickly as congress has been attempting to vote on this bill concerns me that even those voting on it do not really understand what they are voting for or against. I am glad that you know the FACTS and can state without a doubt that is what will happen if the bill passes. I am not that confident of this congress!

Hey pinecone, what about all the insurance company execs that tell your aging parents they can't have medical care because they are old, or sick, or just not very important? You right wingers are such hypocrites!

I'm tired of people stereotyping in their posts. Just because someone is against the Healthcare Bill and have specific reasons doesn't mean they got them from Fox News. I don's see anyone else raising all the biased BS that CNN pukes out. Common Sense, you have none dude. You sound just as ignorant about the Healthcare plan as others, probably even more. Yes, you can keep your healthplan, but any change in that plan or employment, guess what? It's off to the gov't plan for you. I would suggest you quit misleading people with your biased twist on the truth of the bill. The truth of the bill is Obama wants to control the healthcare industry.. PERIOD. It doesn't matter how it's packaged, what's in the proposed bill or final bill. Obama will twist whatever language in it to his advantage. This is his MO. What is not deniable is that the bill covers ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and this is not FAIR to AMERICAN TAXPAYERS. I can support helping Americans, I CANNOT and WILL NOT support helping ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

When has ultra-rightie-mighty-whitey allowed open debate. Compare town hall meeting disruptions to right-wing radio debate. When has anyone heard Lush Limpballs debate anyone. If he did, then his points would be mute.

SpoxLogic

Are these disruptions any worse than the anti war protesters demonstrating at military funerals?

appraizer, if you can show me where those protests stopped the other side from being able to voice their own opinion, then I'll agree with you. But, I doubt you can ever show that. The current mob activity at these town meetings have stopped the other side from being able to speak.

_______________________________________________________________________

Sorry you are wrong. It is the questions the people are asking that leaves the politician unable to come up with a good answer. I guess the common person is getting louder because Washington is failing to listen. I have e-mailed, written and tried calling Washington and get the same form letter each time telling me how hard they are working to pass the bill (they haven't read) that I have just asked them to not pass. Now the government is calling every day citizens mobs. When in doubt the government is now berating Americans for using freedom of speech. If they would have just been listening to us all along we would not be so frustrated and getting louder trying to get their attention. Now you can report me.

I just love how anyone who disputes this bill is automatically called right-wing, republican, even white. That is just disgusting to me. Talk about racism and profiling. I am a democrat. I also have several friends in Canada who have government 'sponsored' healthcare. One of them has cancer (as does my husband). He has NEVER been denied care. But he sure as heck has been DELAYED care. Been told in 25 words or less that since he's dying, even getting a simple procedure done to alleviate the awful pain has to be delayed for him because he's dying anyhow (one time they told him to suffer for 2 months). That to me is disgusting. And to all those who talk about the insurance companies denying care to the elderly and terminally ill, where? My husband is terminal and has NEVER been denied or delayed any care! The insurance companies are fully supporting his fight for every extra day of life and as little pain and discomfort as possible! I will  NEVER vote for any senator or other politician who votes for this plan ever. Up until the politicians agree to fall under the SAME PLAN THAT WE WILL HAVE TO ACCEPT, then they have no business butting into my choice of plan! Period!!!!!!!

These are weak and cowardly tactics that underscore the inherent bankruptcy of the Republican position on health care reform. If there were something of value that they could say to refute the majority view that health care reform is long overdue, they'd say it. Since there isn't, they've reduced themselves to this.

Each outburst is but one more nail in the Republican coffin. As a former Republican, I think I can say that with certainty.

Why doesn't Obama just do what Bush did for eight years, whatever he wants? He is the elected President of The United States. I think he should do what he thinks is right. We elected him knowing health care reform was a very large part of his agenda and if the puppet GOP's and corporate giants that are raping the system don't like it, too bad. If you became disabled tomorrow and didn't have access to a insurance plan for your family, would you then be bashing and protesting the Presidents agenda? Think about it, I have. There are millions in that very position and tomorrow guarantees nothing. What if you lost your job and had to change insurance plans and one of your children was denied coverage because of a 'pre existing condition'. What about then? Again, tomorrow promises nothing.

Town Hall meetings are not for exchanging ideas. They have been and always will be the place for the people to tell their Representative what they think and how they want them to vote. When they boo and shout down the representative, it just means that they have heard all the B.S. before and since the majority of Americans are against the health care proposal and they're Representatives are not listening, this is the peoples opportunity to tell them in no uncertain terms.....We have told you not to vote for TARP, we told you not to vote for the Stimulus package, we told you not to vote for bailouts, we've told you not to vote for or support the Healthcare proposal and we've told you not to vote for or support Cap and Trade, yet you still ignore us. When you continue to ignore people who are in the majority, then you reap what you sow and get yelled at. More Americans have read the Health Bill than our Congressional Representatives. That in and of itself is a very sad commentary. But what is even sadder is that the Democratic/Communist/Fascist/Marxist/Socialist/Progressive party doesn't care what the majority of Americans say or think. They don't even listen to the otherf countries who have gone through this. The people in Canad, Great Britain, France, Spain, Germany and the Former Soviet Union and their Former Bloc members are all telling us not to go this route with healthcare yet no-one listens. The countries that support this healthcare program is China (hoping that it bankrupts us), Cuba, Venezuela, Iran among other stalwart countries that really hold it's people in high regard. Oddly enough, this health care program does have the highest recomendation from the American Communist Party. Hmmm........

Anyone who wants to keep the health care system as it is, is a total nut case !! Your insurance companies are controling your lives and ripping you off, and you even do not realize it !! I have socialized medicine, I choose my doctors, no test will ever be refused, and diseases like cancer are totally taken in charge 100% by my government. And waiting time is minimum !! So, tell me what do you get that I do not get ??? My governement has no say in what care I get, but your insurance companies do !! Idiots!

Lets see, Clinton had protestors arrested by the secret servce, Kerry had them tased. Definitely a progressive agenda.

and there is that lack of reality...this is expanding access. no preconditions. no denial of care. your parents would be more likely to receive care than they would from a health insurance actuary...as they actually are probably already getting some government sponsored care anyways.

These are just talk-radio-listening yokels who hate that a Democratic President is following through on his promises. Their arguments are meritless BS, and they can't win a fair fight, so instead they show up screaming so no one can hear the truth. Ultimately, though, I think it does help the democratic process. Because these jerks leave such a foul taste in everyone else's mouth that sentiment has to swing against them, and in favor of meaningful healthcare reform.

DOWN WITH THE HMOs, and the boorish idiots unwittingly doing their dirty work.

I don't understand how any of you can say that these people at the townhall meetings are not letting the "other side" speak. Where have you been for the last 6 months? We have listened to ENDLESS campaigning and "town hall" meetings by our president (who does nothing BUT campaign) with carefully selected attendees and carefully vetted questions, all of it utterly one-sided, with not one minute given to anyone who has a differing opinion. We've heard everything the "other side" has to say, and even BO has nothing new to say in his press conferences. And they don't even know what the bill says. BO himself says he doesn't know what's in it. And believe it or not, a lot of those people protesting HAVE read the bill, or at least parts of it, and if you haven't, I highly suggest that you do, and you will be shocked at what's in it. This is NOT about healthcare for everyone, it's about having control over everyone. How do you feel about the government having access to all your banks and accounts through electronic fund transfers? It's in the bill. How do you feel about having some government-appointed "counselor" come to your house to check up on your parenting abilities and tell you what you're doing wrong? It's in the bill. How do you feel about all your personal health records being sent to some giant clearinghouse in DC so that some bureaucrat can monitor you from thousands of miles away and make choices about your healthcare so that you don't "have" to? It's in the bill. How do you feel about government agents coming to your house when you reach a certain age to tell you about your end-of-life options, including killing yourself? It's in the bill. Whether you like those things are not, do you really want them to be forced on everyone? Before you all argue here about who has a right to express their anger and frustration and who doesn't, why don't you all read the bill so you can speak knowledgeably, whatever side you're on? BO can't - he hasn't read it. I'd guess almost none of the dems who support it have read it. It is far more than just health coverage, and it will change this country forever if it's passed. Please. Read it. You might be out there yelling yourself if you do. It is very, very frightening.

As a conservative I have to ask the media, and all liberals commenting on this site, this simple question: Where is YOUR tolerance of MY opinion?

If I don't agree with you then I'm labled a member of a "mob"? Lets use the correct language here, shall we? Protestors are what we are called, and protesting is still our legal and constitutional right in this country. You do understand that we still have a legal right to disagree with our government, don't you? And you should also understand and agree that we still have the legal right to voice our opinion, correct? Should you then be labled "KGB" since we're labling each other now and you wish to stifle us?

Look at the poll numbers above, folks; the votes are in! The people DO NOT WANT nationalized healthcare any more than we wanted nationalized banking institutions or auto manufacturing. I do not want a government committee dictating my healthcare options and treatments to me or anyone in this nation.

Socialism, by it's very definition, is the bridge or step toward communism. We've socialized our banks and auto industry - we've already begun making that horrifying bridge toward communism. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Choice please I am glad to see that your husband is being supported by his medical insurance. I wish I was so lucky. Once my Mother-in-Law was diagnosed terminal those wonderful private insurance companies cancelled her coverage in just a few weeks. She didn't even get help for her morphine to manage the pain, no help with her catheters, no help with the things she needed for any dignifity and comfort.

Private Medical Insurance is a FOR PROFIT industry. They have to answer to the stock holders before anyone else. The current medical insurance industry is about 10 providers when originally there used to be over 30. Those 10 are the ones that set the price and decide what they will and will not cover, not the doctors, not the patients.

The private medical system is as broken as the idea of government run medical.

Here are the facts. Anyone can verify them by reading the bill at http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

Actual itemized contents of the Health Care Reform Bill:

"Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!"

TRUTH: This is not an "audit," it's a study. Moreover, the bill states (pp. 22-23) that the report will "include any recommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate to ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and mid-size employers to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of large group insurers and self-insured employers." This is almost directly the opposite of the email's claim.

"Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!"

TRUTH: Page 29 continues to define the "essential benefits package" and discusses limits on what Americans will have to spend on health care under this minimum standard. In no way does this section stipulate the rationing of care.

"Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)"

TRUTH: Page 30 begins to describe the Health Benefits Advisory Committee which establishes certain minimum standards for health insurance plans. In no way does this committee deny treatments and benefits to Americans with health insurance.

"Page 42: The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None."

TRUTH: Page 42 begins to describe the Health Choices Commissioner's duties. The idea that this person will decide what benefits Americans receive is patently false, given that most Americans will keep their current plans under reform, and Americans within the exchange will have the choice of purchasing many different kinds of health plans. Rather, the Commissioner will establish minimum standards to protect Americans.

"Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services."

TRUTH: Pages 50-51 contain a provision stating that discrimination will not be allowed in the provision of health care services. Nowhere does the bill state that non-US citizens will be provided free health care services. The bill prohibits federal dollars from being used for undocumented immigrants.

"Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard."

TRUTH: Page 58, in the context of a discussion of administrative standards, mentions that "determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility...may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card." In no way does the bill state that such a card would be national, or that it would be issued to every person, or that it would, in fact, be used at all.

"Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer."

TRUTH: Page 59 continues the discussion of administrative standards, and authorizes electronic transfers of money within the government. In no way does this provision grant the government access to individual bank accounts.

"Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)"

TRUTH: Here's what page 65 says: "Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall establish a temporary reinsurance program to provide reimbursement to assist participating employment-based plans with the cost of providing health benefits to retirees and to eligible spouses, surviving spouses and dependents of such retirees." No mention is made of unions or community organizations.

"Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange."

TRUTH: That's true! Plans have to have a minimum standard of benefits, bat can offer other plans as well. But that's fair, isn't it? Private insurers can continue to operate outside the exchange if they wish - should the government establish no standards for the exchange? In that case, how could reform end insurance industry abuses and help to control costs?

"Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)"

TRUTH: This section says is that if private health care plans want to operate in the Exchange, they must provide a basic benefit package.

"Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens"

TRUTH: Some American citizens are more comfortable speaking a language other than English, especially in a sensitive situation like a consultation with their doctor. This provision in no way opens the door for coverage of undocumented workers.

"Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan."

TRUTH: Page 95 makes no mention of ACORN and Americorps; all it says is that the Commissioner can conduct outreach to vulnerable populations, making them aware of their options.

"Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter."

TRUTH: People who are eligible for Medicaid will not have to face the burdens of paperwork and other bureaucratic struggles. Far from depriving people of choice, this measure will ensure coverage.

"Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No 'judicial review' is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed."

TRUTH: This section describes rate-setting under the public health insurance plan option, which will compete with private insurers, who can set their own rates. Because of inherent advantages like their established administrative and provider frameworks, private insurance companies will not be "crushed" by government competition.

"Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages."

TRUTH: The government will negotiate rates with providers under the public health insurance plan option. However, private insurers will continue to pay their own rates.

"Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives."

TRUTH: This is simply not true. Employers with more than 20 employees aren't even eligible to participate in the exchange, let alone the public plan, until several years after the exchange launches in 2013. Moreover, no employer will be forced to participate in the public plan.

"Page 146: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families."

TRUTH: Employers are required to pay some benefits for part-time employees on a basis proportional to what they pay for full-time employees. No language on this page or the next stipulates coverage for the families of part-time employees.

"Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll"

TRUTH: The payroll penalty applies to employers with payroll over $500,000 who do not provide insurance to their employees. The percentage for employers with payroll from $500,000 - $750,000 is 6%. Employers do not have to offer the public option to avoid this penalty, they can offer private insurance if they wish.

"Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll"

TRUTH: This is false, see above.

"Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income."

TRUTH: Pages 167-173 detail what "acceptable health care" means (basically, insurance coverage) and also allow for many different kinds of exceptions to this rule.

"Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them)."

TRUTH: Non-resident aliens do not have to pay the penalty for not having health insurance, nor will the receive federal assistance, because they are not required to purchase health insurance. They are not exempted from individual taxes generally.

"Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records."

TRUTH: This is a gross overstatement. For the purposes of determining affordability credits for Americans who need financial assistance in purchasing health insurance, employees of the Health Choices Administration will have access to tax information that the federal government already keeps. As is clearly stated on page 196, "Return information... may be used by officers and employees of the Health Choices Administration or such State-based health insurance exchange, as the case may be, only for the purposes of, and to the extent necessary in, establishing and verifying the appropriate amount of any affordability credit described in subtitle C of title II of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 and providing for the repayment of any such credit which was in excess of such appropriate amount.''

"Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that."

TRUTH: This quote is taken out of context, and is in fact referring to a calculation used in the bill. Full context of quote: "'(4) NOT TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES.-The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under this chapter or for purposes of section 55.''

"Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

TRUTH: This section has nothing whatsoever to do with reducing services. It makes much needed changes to the way in which physician reimbursement is recalculated every year. The bill will, in fact, create much more opportunity for seniors and the poor to receive necessary care.

"Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)"

TRUTH: Page 241 does not say this. Nowhere does it say this. It does say that physicians will be grouped into certain categories regardless of specialty. These categories merely determine if the physician is engaged in primarily therapeutic or preventative care.

"Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc."

TRUTH: There is no good response to this assertion as it appears to have been made up completely. The section deals with 'misvalued codes' meaning that the government is potentially not paying an acceptable rate for a specific service. This will allow the government to, for example, pay more for services that require more payment, such as high-overhead procedures. The author of these criticisms separately attacks the bill for paying the same rate to all doctors, then attacks again for paying different rates.

"Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries."

TRUTH: This section amends the Social Security Act to include productivity measures. There is no mandate or control of anything. This merely updates the way in which doctors and hospitals are paid through Medicare.

"Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs."

TRUTH: This is simply not true. This slightly amends existing guidelines for payments for medical equipment, in this case power-driven wheelchairs. This section introduces no 'regulations' that are not in the Social Security Act.

"Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!"

TRUTH: Overusage of the hot-button word "rationing" is a way to deflect attention away from the actual language of the bill and incite unjustified fear. This section only compares costs incurred by cancer hospitals to costs incurred by similar hospitals, and adjusts payments to reduce the possibility of fraud and abuse.

"Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions."

TRUTH: This is almost correct. The section is one of the first efforts at targeting excessive readmissions. Excessive readmissions are physically and emotionally damaging to patients, while simultaneously putting them, and the health care system, in far more financial risk than is necessary. The American Hospital Association recommended reduced payments for avoidable readmission in testimony to Congress.

"Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government."

TRUTH: This is patently false. The section is about possible methods that the Secretary of Health and Human services might consider in order to address the growing problem of patient readmission. This section does not, in any way, create a penalty, nor does it even mandate policy. It merely provides examples of recourses that might be considered.

"Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies!"

TRUTH: This provision only limits Doctor's investments in health care facilities that they refer patients to The effort to limit self-referral has been ongoing for many years as an effort to reduce fraud and abuse. This is, essentially, the medical community equivalent of insider trading. Limiting this incentive works to put the patient's health above all other considerations. Doctors remain free to engage in investment opportunities in areas that don't create a significant conflict of interest.

"Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval."

TRUTH: This section regulates physicians' investment in hospitals to make sure that physicians are not unfairly benefiting from their power to refer patients to hospitals they have a stake in. The section does not prohibit hospital expansion.

"Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on 'community' input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN."

TRUTH: In the ongoing effort to demonize community-based groups such as ACORN, every instance of the word "community" has become associated with that group's efforts. In reality, this provision allows for anyone to provide input. This includes homeowners, religious leaders, neighborhood groups, and others. There are no payoffs. There is no money exchanged in any way.

"Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing."

TRUTH: This provision is included in order to allow the government to base payments on practices that work. Nowhere does it say health care will be rationed. The attempt to isolate what works and what does not work in Medicare Advantage plans only benefits the health care system in general.

"Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc."

TRUTH: The government can disqualify some Medicare Advantage Plans from receiving some additional payments, but only if those plans are not meeting necessary requirements.

"Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals."

TRUTH: This section only deals with how to handle special needs individuals who need to enroll outside of the open enrollment period. Almost every type of plan operates with open enrollment periods. This section does not create more restrictions.

"Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone)."

TRUTH: This section merely expands existing Telehealth programs, which supplement but do not replace other health coverage, and provide a vital resource to Americans in rural and remote areas.

"Page 425-430: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?; Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time; Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death; Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends; Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT; Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life."

TRUTH: All of these hysterical claims have been debunked elsewhere. HR3200 provides for the reimbursement of a voluntary session of end-of-life counseling with your physician once every five years. This in no way means the government will make decisions for patients or encourage doctor-assisted suicide. Counseling simply makes patients and their families aware of their options.

"Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN."

TRUTH: ACORN is not a Community-Based Medical Home.

"Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN."

TRUTH: This is clearly still referring to community health groups, not ACORN.

"Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage."

TRUTH: Covering marriage and family therapy, as many private insurance plans do, does not mean that the government "intervenes in your marriage." The types of individuals who are recognized as therapists are clearly defined on page 491; in brief, professionals only, not bureaucrats.

"Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services."

TRUTH: This section expands government coverage for mental health services under various government programs, and ensures that all mental health services will be offered by qualified professionals.

Your "interpretation" is not necessily the truth.

The interpretation in 1.42 is much more truthful and factual than most of the posts here. This interpretation is a response to an email I've recieved, and which has been posted many times here on Newsvine. The bulk of that email is quoted above preceeding the sane and honest interpretation of one of the proposed bills.

If the opposition to health care reform where honest and reality-based, one could address each concern. But the opposition is not honest; outrageous and willfully dishonest interpretations are debunked repeatedly. For example, there is a willfully dishonest interpretation of page 425, which allows physicians to be paid once every 5 years for voluntary couciling on end of life choices, as a law to "kill granny". Dispite the true interpretation being widely available, the liars keep posting and keep sending emails.

What is wrong with the media. This plan was going to get railroaded through Congress with hardly any debate. Of course people are angry when they hear about 400bln in medicare cuts and 400bln in new taxes. Does the Democratic leadership think we are just a bunch of sheep ready to spend whatever it takes for ideas that no one gets to talk about. Shame on them and shame on anyone who agrees with their strong arm scare tactis.

I have no problem with people speaking their mind if they are, indeed, just citizens with a point to make. However, too many of these types of protests (on both sides of the political spectrum) are orchestrated with paid protesters who move from place to pace. That I don't like.

I would ask people on both sides of this issue to get the facts and not just listen to the shouts or whines of one group. And when someone provides info, do a little homework. For example, the Republicans and Fox news types have been fond of quoting a report by the Lewin Group. Do you know who the Lewin Group is? United Healthcare, one of the country's biggest health insurers. It is also the company that had to pay a $400 million settlement to the NY Attorney General for defrauding customers. But don't worry, I am sure their report is unbiased.

pinecone18w

Your statement says you have not listen or read the information the Gov. is trying to present. You have made the choice to sit in the audience and yell false information and believe it to be true, like a fool. Idiots in the seats have bias your understanding and you follow the yelling crowd. By saying your parents loosing their coverage and what your response is going to be is a perfect example of your closed minded ignorance.

If you and your silly screamers shut-up for one time in your lives and listen to someone speaking you may walk around in the next phase of your adulthood a little smarter than your first.

A little information to you "lefties" before you spout off any more about why Americans are so "piss_d off" about this Obama health care: Read the damn thing for yourself! I also suggest that if you are an AARP member, you call them and cancel your membership because they have sold you out - I cancelled my membership!

Obama Health Care Plan Details

HR 3200 currently under consideration in the House of Representatives

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Government will audit the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 503 lines 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the U.S., including your data.

(NOTE FROM RJ—Can you believe that in America you will be told how many children you can have, and when? Does this mean we can expect the government to impose mandatory abortions? How else can this be interpreted?)

PG 898 The Public Health Workforce Corps shall consist of civilian employees of the U.S. as Secretary deems.

Mathew D. Staver*
Founder and Chairman Dean and Professor of Law
Liberty Counsel Liberty University School of Law
Offices in Florida, Virginia and the District of Columbia, Lynchburg, Virginia

Where do you get the idea that somebody is going to deny your aging parent care? Don't they have Medicare?

And the fact that you're willing to threaten violence based on a lie speaks volumes about your character and other so called conservatives like you. You obviously have an internet connection, so why not discover a few other sources of information out there?

And to Citizen X and other posters of "facts" regarding the bill. You are drawing very strange conclusion about a bill that is simply restating a great deal of existing healthcare policy in this country. Any hospital that receives Medicare funding must already follow all of the standards above.

Private health insurance companies operate at an average overhead rate of 20% and they do nothing to investigate fraud or improve medical care. Their efforts are focused on gaining market share and figuring out how not to pay claims.

Who is holding hospitals accountable for people who get sicker while in the hospital? It's not private insurance companies--it's Medicare. When Medicare suspects fraudulent billing, it investigates and punishes doctors with hefty fines. Private insurance companies pass fraud off as the cost of doing business--and it gets passed on to the consumer.

P.S. Medicare does all of these things with an "inefficient" 3% overhead rate. Because it doesn't invest so much money in advertising and figuring out how to legally not pay claims.

Well said MarkD!

Cool, Liberty University says it so it must be true!

Is there any mention anywhere in the post that the listed contents were mostly somebody's interpretation of the contents and not the contents themselves? Is there any mention that most of this is bogus blather, in other words LIES, that are being thrown out there to see what sticks?

There is a special place in Hell for supposed Christians that misrepresent the truth and use God to promote lies. Thou shalt not take the Lord thy God in vain.

Citizen X -

Who is RJ?

Who is Mathew (with one T) Staver (is he you, is he the author, is he the person who sent you this information)?

Do you know the definition of a Health Information Exchange (HIE)?

"Professor" Staver, you gave away the true intent of your diatribe when you signed your post. "Liberty University" = Jerry Falwell = Right wing religious agenda. You might be able to sell this tripe to the students at your American "madrassa", but the rest of us aren't buying it.

ummmm... we have a very successful government-run program for seniors. It is called Medicare. We have a very successful government-run program for veterans (VA). We have government-run healthcare for active military. These are working well, do not ration care. What seems to be the problem with the rest of us getting similar coverage?

What about the current insurance executive who decides, based on bottom line profit, that your parents don't ge care?

This is for Valerie : Look at below link to see what most drive-by media does not report on TV or radio. And this isn't Rush.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Politics/story?id=1728788&page=1

It is the Unions that are creating the violence at town hall meetings. Democrat and Obama Union members. Do a search on U-tube for the black Guy that got beat up at a meeting, by union members. You can hear one one U-tube that he got beat up since he is aniti-Obama health care. Liberal A-holes start the violence, not the Conservatives. You don't see that on the drive-by media, reporting against Obama's Union members creating disturbances.

Theses are not all conseratives they are average Americans who want to be heard. Liberal Americans want them stifled. I wonder why after all of the Bush bashing now we can't say anything. What a bunch of babies.

"Disruptions" and "democratic process" are not a match.

These disruptions however, are well organized efforts by instigators for the medical insurance industry.

Why would any company be involved in the Medical Insurance Industry? - To make money, plain and simple.

How does a Medical Insurance Company make money? Through premiums.

How does a Medical Insurance Company lose money? By paying out claims.

Figured it out yet?

Last night one of my inlaws was at the Town Hall meeting in St. Louis, Mo. meeting, She was maced and arrested outside. She is proud to be a Democrate that voted for the "O Holy One" as she still believes he walks on water. I thought it funny she got maced.

All the violence that took place at the meeting was from Democrates, the SEIU, and a few members from ACORN. How do I know this, I to was at the meeting to voice my opinion against the health care plan. Yes I voted Obama this last time but was not hoping for this type of change.

When will grown people stop hating Dems or Repubs with such hatefullness and try to see someone's way of thinking? Does one party have all the answers to please all the people all the time, hell no. What I see with our president is still the same old tactics used in Chicago, if you don't do as I say I will destroy you! And he will!

I am an American, not a Dem or a Repub, and I use my vote for who I feel will do a better job for America, I can not wait for the next election.

Hope that the Dems will stop using unions like the SEIU for their security at the town hall meetings before they kill a person instead of putting people in the hospital for their beliefs.

Yes mr. Carnahann did ask them to be there last night. You can see what happens when they get their people to attend.

Sometimes it is necessary to yell at these politicians just to get their attention, THEY WORK FOR YOU!

The protest's are at all town hall meetings not just the DEMOCRATES town hall meetings!!!

We do not debate Socialism in this country. We wage war against it. Take your Obamofacist Socialist Propaganda back to Russia. They'll love you there.

And I hope your comment has been taken to heart, and that you won't feel safe in your world no longer. See, because your a damn fool.

Do you people like the system we have now? Aren't insurance companies and hospitals leeching our health care dollars to support their bloated organizations and overpaid executives? Aren't they making customers jump through hoops before claims are paid and rationing care? Fewer people have insurance each year, it costs more, and covers less. You radio-talk-show mob people are doing the dirty work for the insurance companies.

These disruptions are just like the people that were shouting " kill him " at the Republican rallies, last year. They are meant for one thing and one thing only. The Republican party doesn't have a clue, they have no fresh new ideas, so they revert to the only other tactic that they know. To create as much hate and discontent as they possibly can. This is what they do and they do it for their cooperate buddies.

And if anyone resembles Adolf Hitler it was George W. Bush. He lied to the people, he had all the control for himself and he attacked another country with out cause. Thing is, is that Dubya Great Grandfather DID help Hitler. FACT !

Raydonia - "we have a very successful government-run program for seniors. It is called Medicare. We have a very successful government-run program for veterans (VA). We have government-run healthcare for active military. These are working well, do not ration care. What seems to be the problem with the rest of us getting similar coverage?"

That was your comment. Omg. Have you ever actually been to a VA hospital? Ask a few veterans about them before you proclaim them wonderful. There have been so many complaints about so many of them and nothing done by the government! As for medicare, why not ask a few seniors how wonderful that is? How much money comes out of their pockets to pay co-pays (which comes out of their pittance social security checks - another poorly run government plan)? I can't understand how anyone can want their healthcare in the government's hands? They have managed to screw up and pass on the cost of it all to the taxpayers in almost everything they put their sticky little fingers! Now as a democrat, why don't some of you name-callers come back and try to call me names? That is usually what a person with nothing to intelligently reply to someone usually does.

You know I think your right, Medicare is broke, costing the working people Trillions over the next few years, and paying fewer benefits all the time. The V.A. is almost the same with a hurry-up and wait policy. Hell it only took me 3 1/2 years for a new kneecap, and lost almost 2 1/2 years of work.

We all ought to be very proud of our government run healthcare.

Until you go through it, please shut the hell up and grow up. Just try to understand what the older generation is going through, after all we were the ones that is giving you this country when we are gone!

Choice -

I think we need to give seniors and veterans a choice. They are so burdened by poorly run government plans. If we eliminate the VA and Medicare these people will be free to either pick their own health insurance or choose to pay for their health care out of pocket. I think everyone will be appreciative if we can reform health care by eliminating these failed socialist programs, and it will cut down government health care costs.

Win - Win!

/s

that is total nonsense - so you would take my veterans benefits and put me at the mercy of the greeding insurance companies. I'm an ex health agent and they spend more avoiding claims that paying them.

that "socialist" mindset is from those who are in insurance or those who are wealthy and can afford theirs. Healthcare is an american right - just as important as gun rights which I support too. MajorSteele

MajorSteele -

/s - is a sarcasm tag, you know sarcasm, an ironic utterence designed to cut or give pain

but I don't think that eliminating veterans benefits and Medicare is a "socialist" plan, privatizing everything is definitely capitalist...

The right to own guns and ammo is definitely as important as the right to health care. /s

We do not debate Socialism in this country. We wage war against it. Take your Obamofacist Socialist Propaganda back to Russia. They'll love you there.

We wage war against socialism? That might be news to a whole lot of our allies as some are socialist countries (none of them purely socialist, but there are no "pure" governments, not even democracies). I guess that is one would label "Bush" diplomacy, though...

Interesting...facist, socialist, and communist all used to describe one person. Do you like spewing hateful speech, are you getting carried away writing from your script, or are you just plain stupid (or, perhaps, a combination of two or three)? Fascism, socialism, and communism are three entirely separate forms of government and are not compatible.

Also, the Soviet Union was communist, but no longer exists and hasn't for some time - Russia was a republic/state in the Soviet Union, but was not the Soviet Union any more than Idaho is the United States. I don't think Russia is truly considered a communist country anymore, at least not a fascist/socialist/communist country (perhaps a totalitarian government, but that's different too - but Bush looked in Putin's eyes and so one must be wrong to think he might be a bad man).

Geez.

what do you plan on doing ???

killing someone ?sounds like it why dont you just say it ,gutless

like that guy who walked into church and shot a unarmed man in cold blood.

Gee, did you just make a veiled threat? Based on a deluded understanding of the issue?

And teabaggers wonder why the rest of us have a hard time taking your ideas seriously, and why we view you as violent and unprincipled vandals. Keep digging, pal.

Its time to vote em all out

We don't have a president We already have a dictator in my book when he stands there and tells me what I NEED and not what I want. Why do we elect representatives if they are just going to do what they want anyway or what whoever pads their palms with the most bribes. I am no longer represented as far as I'm concerned.

Lots of people voted them in BECAUSE they wanted and needed health care!

If these people were voted in for the purpose of implementing health care, which politicized the issue, let them deal with the politics.

Shut them up when you shut up the leftwingnutjobs disrupting military funerals!

We're not all angry. That's the point. The MAJORITY are looking for change and a recovery from the hellish eight years we suffered with Bush! The right-wing fringe are angry...get it straight!!!!!!

appraizer: Again, no "leftwingnutjobs" have protested at military funerals. See lundyP66's response above. As your buddies are doing at the healthcare townhall meetings, your two post saying the same thing is a sore loser's attempt to "shoutdown" opposing ideas, and it is not working here either. There are too many people much, much, much more intellegent than you! We get our facts straight by researching rather than listening to Rush Limbaugh for our news!

Where was the media concern when all the leftwing protesters tried to disrupt the Republican's national convention? Oops, I forgot, liberals are allowed to use their 1st Amendment rights, no one else is.

You want a political backlash Obama? Keep telling your minions in the media to call the american public names, see how far that gets you.

Obama will try Martial law if he needs to suppress any dissent. He is no less a thug than Hugo Chavez.

America is fast becoming a Banana Republic under Obama and his ilk.

Take to the streets america, let your voice be heard before Obama grinds you down under his heel.

I.S., just like Bush did?

Remember that? We "libbies" were accused of being unAmerican and unpatriotic. Traitors!

Wow.

Industrial strength. Very good post.

I fear we are on the edge of boiling over in to the second American Revolution and/Civil War. Mark my words, the beginning will come when Texas secedes within the next 12 months.

We need to be heard and not continually ignored by Barrack Hussein Obama, II. He is the most dangerous dictator since Stalin.

If we can not stand up and be heard, and listened to respectfully then our points are as moot as the Iranian protesters were.

Sorry, but I'm a voter and I desperately wanted health care reform... certainly not the cash voucher McCain was proposing which just takes money from one source (the gov't, to you) and hands it to the health insurance industry. And I want "pre-existing condition" stricken from any plan.

So, no, it's not being "shoved down our throats." We need health care reform. We're 35th in the world, right above Cuba for crying out loud, when it comes to health care... yet we pay double what other countries pay. I don't know about the rest of you, but any reform which cuts that sounds good... and even slight improvement would be welcome.

Cuba, for chrissake.

You don't want government? I, for one, like the idea of laws.

Would someone who is against the Government-run health care plan please give me a legitimate, fact based argument? Then I will consider your thoughts. Yelling, "Just say NO!" at the top of your lungs is not a valid argument.

i think you are 100 percent right Industrail Strength

I sure hope Tyler sees "Ethical Family Physician's" posting - that's inciting violence in my opinion. Don't like how things are going? Threaten civil war? Nice.

You Repugs have had your way for the majority of the last 30 years. Look where we are now. JUST LOOK. Now you don't have your way you want to THREATEN VIOLENCE TO GET IT? Yep - just what I thought.

Rev - you're an idiot. If you want healthcare, get a job. If you cant' get a job with healthcare, get an education. I'm tired of all you slackers who smoked pot and drank beer through your late teens and early twenties and now can't take of yourself if your life depended on it. WHY SHOULD I OR ANYONE ELSE PAY FOR YOUR HEALTHCARE?!?! Seriously dude, grow a pair and take care of yourself. And for all you whinners with kids who cannot afford them.... don't have them. Again, not my problem!!!

Wow. How typical. Disgusting attitude to have. You have NO IDEA what you are even saying. Hello - YOU ALREADY PAY FOR OTHERS HEALTHCARE NOW. Those who have no insurance through no fault of their own are forced to go to the ER as they are the only ones who HAVE to provide care. That, my friend, forces YOU to pay higher heath care costs in the name of higher medical costs AND higher insurance premiums. Yeah, that works REAL well.

Hey jenny-8! Where were you when GWBush was shoving his agenda down our throats? Why didn't you speak up then. He was goose-stepping us to a fascist dictatorship and you rightwingers loved it.

BJ the rocket scientist. You haven't a clue about the healthcare industry. I've been in it for over 20 year "my friend". If someone with no insurance goes into the emergency room it does not raise medical costs to anyone but the hospital. Hospitals and doctors can raise their rates all day long, but at the end of the day they only get paid what insurance carriers want to pay them. So, I don't buy all this crap about raising medical costs are killing this country. Why would an insurance carrier raise premiums because the hospital had to provide care to someone without insurance? Again, if the hospitals claim they have to raise fees to cover the indigent, insurance carriers laugh and pay them whatever they want. Physician payments have gone DOWN since 1992, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Insurance Companys set premiums AND dictate what they will pay... So let's talk about WHO really is driving up costs in the Medical Industry. When an insurance company has to sell 85,000 healthcare plans just to cover the salary of ONE man, then they are the crooks. Doctor's get paid maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars for caring for people, for making them well, for saving lives... yet we pay Sport Figures MILLIONS of dollars to throw a ball. How screwed up is THAT. The INSURANCE INDUSTRY HAS DESTROYED the healthcare industry. And, yes, I know that I'm paying for your healthcare, it's called Medicaid. That's working so well for us... let's give it all to the gov't. You are disgusting.

Stupid idiot !!! Your government is not pushing anything down your narrow throat !!! It is not forcing you to do anything you don't want to !!!

You want to keep getting ripped off by your private insurance.. GO AHEAD !!!

the democrats and Obama were elected loudly proclaiming they would reform healthcare. those who didn't want that, lost. much like many of us didn't want to invade Iraq, when the other side has the power, they get to make decisions.

Lauren

Would someone who is against the Government-run health care plan please give me a legitimate, fact based argument? Then I will consider your thoughts. Yelling, "Just say NO!" at the top of your lungs is not a valid argument.

Ok here we go again please pay attention.

1) Fact, Healthcare is available to everyone, through Work, Personal Investment, Medicaid & Medicare.

2) Fact, Medicare & Medicaid are broke, if these two government run plans are broke what makes you think they can handle more of workload without increasing my taxes, or simply taxing the rich (Because news flash nobody in this country works for a poor person. If you tax the rich more they get their money back through more layoffs, cutting wages or raising prices.)

3) I have yet to here broken down numbers of the 50 Million uninsured. (How many of the 50 million are; illegal citizens, people who chose not to get health insurance in order to live a certain lifestyle, young people who feel they are healthy enough as it is right now, people who could apply to Medicare or Medicaid but haven't for some reason or another. I have a feeling 49 million of the 50 million fall into one the 4 categories I stated above, but since all I hear is 50 million uninsured w/o any sort of breakdown, I am left to be skeptical of the current bill.

4) The shear rush of this bill, In my previous experience anytime somebody tells me I have to sign now or I lose my opportunity, it has come back to bight me in the butt. Used Car Salesman tactics is what it is. (Not fact based I know based on my personal experience, which is what I have to go by on this particular issue (Speed of which bill is being flung through the White House)

5) California, Social Security, The Post Office, all of these entities are broke, which proves that trying to cover everyone while keeping the same care at the same cost while children being born vastly outnumber the people dying is a pipe dream. (Common sense on that people, that isn't a republican or FOX news thing that’s just simple arithmetic.)

6) as for Pre-Existing Conditions, would expect an insurance company to approve a policy on your house after it caught on fire? I understand people loose jobs and switch and what not, but for the most part this is something that needs to be addressed. But what I find funny is nobody in this country is arguing that.

7) It is my health not the Government or anybody else's, I should have the deciding factor on which way I will be treated when the time comes not a panel of beaurocrats who have never even seen me or know anything about me really deciding the type of care I am to receive. (You said Government run Plan, Not the public option plan)

8) When in this country are we going to stop making laws for the exception to the rule? if the majority of people who have health insurance are happy with it, then why is it necessary to completely revamp the entire sytem, why not improve an already functioning system that works. (Don't give me any crap about us being 37th, I find it funny that we are the only country that does the R & D necessary to keep up with & improve our quality of life.

9) I do not want to pay for the underprivileged to obtain medical care, when I already have insurance (Little side note, I came from a lower class family in a rural NC town, I put myself through college, w/o any loans or grants, just hard work, as soon as insurance was available to me I have had it, even learned how to budget accordingly, forfeiting cable, nights out on the town & more until I earned enough to do both.) This may sound cold hearted, but anyone who believes in evolution ought to realize one of the key points to Darwin's theory is survival of the fittest, you know natural selection. Heck even a religious person can't deny if bad things happen to good people for some reason or another it was God's will. Either way it's contradictory to both beliefs.

10) I do agree something needs to be done about the health care system and nobody is denying that. What I can't stand is somebody telling me that if I disagree with this particular bill I am automatically; In bed with big pharm, or being paid by the republican party, rich old white guy, a racist, ignorant, easily influenced by FOX news personalities, or out of touch with the American people. It's this type of name calling that makes me untrusting our Government (Notice I said Government and not a particular party, so no word of where was I when bush was destroying the country, well I was unaware of the blog, news vine, social networking scene, getting just as pissed off as I do now.)

Stop spewing the same misinformation-

1) Healthcare is NOT available to everyone. With 47 million uninsured, the lack of insurance is considered the 4th highest cause of dealth in America. These are deaths that could have been prevented had the patients had insurance to see a provider.

2) Certainly, Medicare will go broke in 17 years--that's because it holds all the risk. The elderly are the sickest and that's whom the government insures--while the private insurers rake in the money of healthier young people.

3) Of the 47 million--maybe about 5 million are undocumented (not the 10 million that some conservative made up). In fact the survey itself never asks if someone is illegal. It is done in English so unless you can speak it, you can't do the survey. We also know, that if you can afford insurance, you would buy insurance. When young people don't buy insurance, it's because the costs are crazy. You don't have an epidemic of young people not buying car insurance--that's because the costs are lower. No one says, "It's because of lifestyle choice that people don't buy car insurance."

4) As for pre-existing conditions, in one place you say that everyone has healthcare and in another you say that insurance companies shouldn't insure those with pre-existing conditions. How are you supposed to get healthcare if you don't have insurance?

5) As for rushing the bill through--we have had healthcare problems for decades, just because this may be the first time you've heard of it, doesn't mean everything hasn't already been discussed forever.

6) Insurance rates are going up; every time an uninsured person goes to the ER, your rate goes up because hospitals have to charge insured people more to cover the costs. People are losing their jobs and the number of uninsured continue to rise. We can't sustain this nonsensical system.

7)Insurance companies are skimming off 30% of the moeny you give them for profits and administrative costs. That's 30% of the money you're paying them not going to your health. All of this is unsustainable. The monger we wait, the worst the inevitable change will be!

I think every time an elected official holds a public meeting, the local registrar should bring a copy of the voter registration for the area the elected official represents. Anyone not able to vote for the elected official should be asked to leave to make room for those who can. Only those registered to vote in the elected official's area should be permitted to speak. Real local opinions should be expressed in an orderly manner that allows everyone a chance. At the slightest distubence of the meeting, astroturf protesters bussed in from elsewhere should be arrested and charged with disturbing the peace.

In reading a lot of the comments both pro and con one question keeps coming up and that is; Just WHO is going to pay for the so called national health care?? if you think about this rationally then you have to come to the conclusion that the only people that will be burdened with paying for this is the people who have jobs and earn moeny. This tells me that the people who are in favor of this are thinking that national health care is some sort of free handout, if you are one of the many that do not work for a living then that may be the case but for the actual people who work hard every day, earn a living and pay for their own health insurance all this will do is lower their level of health care and increase the tax burden that they have to bear.

There is absolutely no benefit for the working american in this national health care plan, this will effectivley take away your right to choose your own health care and force you into a nationalized system. The tax burden for the workinig american is bad enough but to give away your right to make your own decisions and live your life the way you decide will be an incredible tragedy. And what more will they decide to take away, do you trust these politicians so much that you will give up your rights to them? God help us

Ymerej, you are stating a lot of things as fact that are, most assuredly, not fact. Just because you feel something is true does not make it so, yet that is one of the premises of conservative "factspeak."

1) Healthcare is NOT available to anyone and it is surprising that you would even make such a baseless statement. I know MANY people that have no insurance and barely have enough to pay their utility bills. Sorry if they were not as smart or well-planned as you, but you are wrong.

2) Medicare and Medicaid are not broke, at least not yet. And Medicaid is a state-administered entity, so an umbrella statement such as yours implies every state is in the same state, and that's a bit overreaching. And if you tax the rich more and their response is to reduce their overall income by shooting themselves in the foot by alienating one or more of their core consumer groups, then they will not remain "rich" for long.

3) You imply that 49 out of 50 million people must be stupid, lazy, shiftless, or vain (or perhaps a combination of any or all). You should refrain from such statements. Some people don't have insurance because THEY CAN'T GET ANY.

4) You're kidding, right? While I hope nobody "bights" you in the butt, can you tell me how long a piece of legislation must be fought over before it's OK with you?

5) OMIGOD! Social Security and the Post Office are broke?!!? You'd better let your representatives know, because they are probably unaware of this. Now, put down the script and get back to reality.

6) Sorry, you have/had cancer - go away and die. Sorry, you are getting old (but not old enough for Medicare) - go away and die. And you conservatives are worried that all us "liberals" want to euthanize your parents? Who needs that - let the insurance companies kill them nice and slow by denying coverage...it's OK, because profit is a good thing!

7) It's OK, though, when the insurance company tells you that what you want is not covered (of course, they may wait until you've already got that $50,000 bill in your hand). But they know you and are only concerned with your health...oh, that's right, they have never met you and are only concerned with the bottom line. This is one of the dumber arguments that is used against healthcare reform.

8) Have you spoken with everyone in the country? You know that most are "happy" with their coverage? That's odd, most of the people are happy to have insurance, but they hate the claims processes and the runarounds. But that's OK, it doesn't matter - you can keep that coverage you love so much. And you need to quantify that "R&D" and "quality of life" junk...you might be astounded if you really look into this instead of just spouting the party line.

9) Nice to know that you were able to pull yourself up from your humble beginnings, but not everybody is able to do that. You might want to look back to those beginnings and consider if you think it is a good thing to just toss those people because they didn't manage to do as well as you. As for the Darwin comparison, please take a moment to read the article at the back of the current Smithsonian magazine - it might clear some things up for you. In any event, you will pay for those that cannot afford medical care in one way or another, but if you choose to think otherwise, I guess nobody will be able to explain it to you.

10) If you don't want to be identified with Big, Bad Fox, or other right wing entities, you should shy away from using their talking points and following the same "it's a fact because I say it is" mantra. I hope you are NOT blindly following the party line, but it sure sounds as though that's the case.

JD-1035834, not everyone with a job, even a full-time one, has health insurance. Actually, my understanding is that more and more are losing coverage as a benefit due to the costs of that coverage. Those people with jobs but no coverage are known as "Working Americans" - sorry to shock you. And if you are lucky enough to lose your job and can't get another right away, you might also be lucky enough to pay over $1000/mo to cover your family! Of course, that's assuming you had coverage at your job - COBRA is only used under those circumstances. If you did not have insurance in the first place, then you've really hit the jackpot, huh?

The bogus argument about taking away a person's choice is tiresome. It will actually add a choice to those with no coverage - the choice to provide healthcare to their loved ones and themselves. Nobody will be forced to abandon their wonderful current coverage, and this LIE should cease.

God help us...you are right there. We have people that spout scary stuff that has no basis in fact and circumvent the teachings of Jesus, all the time telling everybody how Christian they are. If you look up "taking the Lord's name in vain," that is the meaning, not the commonly associated swearing. And even Jesus said you should pay your taxes...

to the guy who said I know nothing about healthcare. Wrong (again). (no wonder you were suspended for a day).

I have worked in healthcare for over 20 years. Right now, I work in home health care. Believe me, we see patients who have NOTHING and are scraping the bottom of the barrel to pay for their health care.

I have also worked in the health insurance industry and I recall the many frustrated doctors who were so angry that the insurance company was denying the referrals that they stated the patient needed. Nope, no - too much money. No 'invasive" and so forth. My own doctor called my company the "NO Company" because that's all he ever heard from them.

The way the industry is today DOES NOT WORK. Too many people do NOT have access to affordable heath care. Too many employers do not even offer insurance or enough insurance. Why is it a crime to want to ensure ALL citizens are covered?

Oh, and my friend... I DO have a job and I DO have my own insurance. Ha. Once you hit 65, you'll be on Medicare. GOVERNMENT INSURANCE.

We don't want to get rid of that now do we? Why should only old people be covered?

Condew and 2.27: Thank you for your great posts!

I can't believe how closed minded and selfish people can be. Its all "I've got mine, screw you." What is so evil about a "government agenda" to make sure everyone has health care?? It is so easy for those of you with insurance (which I have, btw) to sit back and say it is not your problem, and to spout off about lazy slobs who don't have coverage. Do you have any idea how many WORKING PEOPLE don't have insurance? And more and more employers are dropping insurance because it has gotten so expensive. The reason premiums have gone up is because costs have gone up...and part of the reason costs have gone up is that hospitals and other providers pass on the costs of caring for the uninsured. Don't think for a second that they don't. Taxpayers also foot some of that bill.

Eyce - I agree with you wholeheartedly! The only thing I want to yell is stop the stupidity! HEALTH CARE does not need reformed in this country - we have the best healthcare in the world! Now the insurance industries are a whole 'nother thing. There are a lot of ways to make them more competitive and bring premiums down and there is your health care cost lowering. I have 2 friends who process medicaid- their biggest gripes are it's so easy for fraud and their doctors wait over 6 months to get payment from the government. Yeah, right, I want them running my health care. And, yes, I'm at page 439 and working my way through this thing that makes War & Peace read like a cheap romance novel! This should not be about left or right - but the people we put in charge of our country should damn well make sure they make the time to read and understand what they want to put into law. Many more tax payers than congress people are finding the time, what's their problem? Oh, it's va-cay time.

I know thousands that agree that we need health care reform. I think that it's sad that the DC boys can't stop squabbling about which party is "right" in this and sit their butts down and craft a viable solution to health care that will benefit all Americans and the next generation to come. I don't have all of the answers, but am willing to LISTEN to all reasonable views. Too much ego involved and not enough "fair play"

There are some health insurance issues which do need to be addressed.

But, there will be zero health reform. Within months, we will hear nothing about this.

The lobbyist have already bought the vote.

So, no one need worry about anything changing. Obama is the last person who has any capability to change anything, so don't worry!

I don't believe any one in Government listens. We can only vote these people out. They are doing something that is against the majority of the population. Some reform would be nice, but will they keep tweaking it until they get what they want. It's been a long time since conservatives have protested and it feels good. Liberals spend half their lives protesting. Congress better listen. These people will be out; whether ACORN has phony voters or not. Bottom line is they don't listen, so why should we listen to them. I'm not 10 years old.

How can those elected representatives know what it is their own constituents want when bused in conservative loud mouths won't let the actual constituents be heard. Town halls ought to be limited to actual contituents of the representative's district -- entry by voter registration or driver's license only.

Just because you have the loudest megaphone and the deepest pockets doesn't mean you represent the majority of Americans.

The big question was 'are they "the representatives" going to use this health care program"?

No one in Congress or even the federal employees will have to use this wonderful health care system that OBama is trying to shove down our throats. If it is going to be so great, then everyone should have to be on the same plan, no exceptions.

Daniel,

regardless of where the people came from IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE AND BE HEARD!

When the country is controlled by Democrats americans go to Democrat meetings in order to be heard.

Take to the streets america, this may be your last chance. Obama will crush liberty if he is allowed to.

The 1st Amendment is under attack, the 2nd Amendment will be next. Silence the voice of the people and then disarm them.

all he is doing is pushing canadas healthcare down our throats heck any president could of gave us that we need something better we the american people are worth that much

While some people are yelling and screaming because they don't want the Obama health care reform, I'm yelling and crying because I can't afford a physical.  My husband does have a company health plan available, at an extreme expense and for emergency coverage only.  According to Obama's plan, I'd have to pay income taxes on that hideous coverage.  It seems the only ones to be covered by this new plan are those who are already covered by many state plans ... the poor.  We are, once again, rewarding those who choose to do nothing with themselves, at the cost of those who have a great work ethic. 

My kids want to go to college, but we can't afford it.  We couldn't get student loans for them because we are at the top of our qualification now that my husband's pay has been cut.  My two kids held down jobs, both of which were eliminated in January.  Because of last year's hard work, they are required to contribute more to their own education.  We can't bridge that gap.  The family down the street, who has been deliberately keeping their income low so as to receive free lunches, WIC, utility subsidies, free medical, etc., is sending their child to a private college, all expenses paid, GRANTS, not loans, while my kids are going to have to work full time plus to cover their college expenses.

When is this uneducated, failing country going to understand that you simply cannot continue to REWARD sloth and stupidity?  If you want something in life, fr--king work for it!  That INCLUDES medical expenses!  My neighbor didn't want to waste the gas to drive her son to the clinic for a cold, so she called the ambulance!  Not only does she get food stamps (credit card now), she goes to the food shelves and cherry picks!  If she were an isolated case, I would just learn to despise her.  But she is the NORM of what Obama seems to want to help all the time.

I see now that the republicans have rewarded the rich, and the democrats want to reward the poor.  When will there be a party to reward the middle class?

Uncommon Sensibility - number 3.9 - Omg thank you so very much! You are the first poster that has made complete sense here! Everyone wants to label each other but fail to see that both sides have terrible things and neither seem to support the hard-working middle class. I live in NY and know firsthand how the government picks your pockets on both sides of the fence! Thanks again!

The healthcare is going to pass i guess we should get use to it

Right on, # 3.9. We need someone like you in the White House. Someone who really sees what is going on, and how crazy and wrong it is. We need to fix this. Smaller government, less handouts, less dependency on the gov't, people working and becoming responsible for themselves. The way I see it, the gov't hurts our prosperity more than it builds it up.

Uncommon Sensibility

Thank You!!! A thousand times thank you!!!

that was the most intelligent thing I have heard in Months. The sad part is also the most truthful discription of the majority of wellfare recipiants to date.

And that is the problem with this administration is the message they are sending, that what once made america great is what is Evil now. Capatalism, Hard Work and Family Values! AND MOST OF ALL A SMALL GOVERNMENT!!!

There was a time in this country that when somebody got something they didn't deserve, it was called charity, compassion or even the grace of God. There was a time when a religious person could be counted on to be truthful. A major tenant of Christianity is to look out for the poor and take care of the sick. I guess the "Religious right" isn't quite as religious as they pretended to be.

Condew - so very true.

All these so-called Christian defenders of faith, motherhood and American life from the political Right - one in ten really can qualify as a true Christian. The rest are filled with bitterness, envy, lack of charity, even violence. They certainly lack the love and grace that was taught by the person who started their religion.

I guess they never learned Christianity enough to recite and live by the tenets of the Beatitudes.............." Blessed are the meek,for they shall inherit the earth, blessed are the peacemakers, for they are the children of God, ......"

It doesn't read anywhere "blessed are the screamers, the haters, the selfish, the bigoted, the ill-informed, the liars, the corrupt and paid off, the easily led, the xenophobes, the gay-bashers, those who try to scare the weak..." But those of you who find your behavior and personality described by the previous sentence - I hope you are denied access to heaven based on your pre-existing condition....

I hear ya DeeToo. Didn't Jesus say "care for the sick." ??????

Somebody do something, I don't want to pay less for health care! I enjoy scraping together hundreds of dollars a month to pay for my medical bills and my health insurance. Damn those Dems for trying trying to make my life a little easier!

Here we go again. If someone isn't agreeing with their wants and beliefs, the labels come out. DeeToo and Condew - I'm a democrat and not a member of the politcal right. I have seen firsthand what government control of medical coverage does not only to a country but to the people who need help the most and I'm not talking about the poor. I'm talking about the genuinely sick who get pushed to the back of the line because they aren't worth spending those tax dollars on. As for putting down Christians, talk about bitterness DeeToo. It's just dripping in your post! Pretty darn sure that there are violent, better, envious leftwingers too out there. If you are going to label anyone, try to be truthful. Not all people against the healthcare plan are repubs or rightwingers. Not all of us are against the poor. Oh and FedUp? Move to NYS. When you are paying our high taxes for other;s medical care, you will find out firsthand how it feels to have the government control most of your paycheck. But be prepared. Like Canadians found out, that healthcare (that isn't all that great to begin with) is more expensive than most will want to pay. If you think paying your health insurance is high now, wait until your taxes go up to cover everyone else's. You will miss those premiums!

We have the right to vote, but, do we really anymore. It seems this administration and its connection to ACORN won the day, illegally. And, no, I am not a republican and did not vote for Senator McCain. The voting process in this country is fraught with corruption and deceit. I expect it only to worsen if Komrade Obama remains in office.

There is 2010, let's see what happens to the votes we thought we cast.

EFP, you need to cut back on the self prescribed medications you're taking. Your postings sound like a person who is paranoid about having a man of color as President of the United States. Want to prove me wrong? Answer these questions truthfully.

Do you have a employeer sponsered health care plan right now? If so, are you paying the same precentage for it as you did 2 years ago? Second question. Do you believe that people who do not have insurance are entitled to medical care too?

If you answered yes to the second question, then you have part of the reason for your costs going up as fast as they are. Uninsured people seek medical care through the ER's. If they do not pay their ER bills the hospitals spread out the cost thorough increases in other services that the insured pay for.

Lastly, Medicare is government sponsered health care plan for seniors. US Representatives and Congress people have government sponsered health care. The military, of which I have proudly served in, has government sponsered health care. So again, what is your real problem with a government run health care system as an option for people who currently have no insurance? Or are you just mad about the person of color who is currently our President!

You are way out of line. EFP said naught about color. Just you. Are we to ignore our president's failings for fear of being labeled a racist? I can guarantee you his color will be mentioned in his successes! "It took a black president to reform health care!"

Where is a thorazine drip when you need one?

SayitaintSo-628660

Or are you just mad about the person of color who is currently our President!

paranoid about having a man of color as President of the United States.

Lovely wording, if you don't agree with us remember your a racist!

EFP hit the nail on the head. The right wing can't stand that 1) a black man won the US Presidency, and 2) he is succeeding in his initiatives. Sure, he has failings, just as we all do, but because Obama's a black man and he's the President, and he is supported by the progressive majority in this country (75%), everything he does is attacked by the whiny rightwingnuts. You can bet this is ALL about racism, it's just that the movers and shakers on the right know how to push your Fear Button so well. You are such a tool.

And as I expected, another voice from out yonder focus on "the person of color" line and ignores the rest of the post. Congratulations, you took the bait. Now, how about a coherent answer to the questions that were posted, or are you just going to keep up with the "I'm not a racist, prejudiced, you fill in the phrase" line that masks your real fear?

Health care affects everyone. Unfortunately, those that need it the most are the last to get it. I believe America can and should do better, no matter who is the President. Partisan politics is how we got to this point in time. Are we going to let another opportunity pass by because we don't want to deal with this difficult subject? If you can't solve health care, you certainly won't be able to solve race, class and economic differences either.

I am quite certain that most of the objections to health care reform are racists. There are rants about the undeserving getting care, and rants about "illegals" getting care; both tissue-thin disguises of racism; just like the "birthers".

Real objections can be argued with facts and answered with policies. Racism is never quite expressed truthfully, and no logical argument is ever a sufficient answer.

If the people are not being heard then it is certainly time to scream and yell.

The Obama administration had already racked up over one trillion dollars in additional debt in the short time he has been in office and has passed a federal budget that promises 1.5 trillion dollars in deficit spending a year. The so-called "czars" he has surrounded himself with are for the most part, extremist and radical liberals including one that co-authored a book that called for mandatory sterilization via the public water supply to control population growth, one that is a self proclaimed communist and one that was a convicted shoplifter.

The president himself is the most secretive figure that ever occupied that office. He has disclosed nothing about his education other than where he attended school, he has disclosed nearly nothing of his medical history; nothing about his business dealings as a community organizer; nothing about his work in law...need I go one? What is he hiding and why? What is the secret agenda?

Make noise America, and lots of it before you wake up to find the "Hammer and Sickle" flying over the Capitol building. Every one of them need to go. If this is their idea of government then it's time to throw them all out and place strict term limits on their replacements.

Oh what short memories people have. How many times did we see Libs shouting down the discussion of the the Iraq war with "Bush Lied" We heard that for 5+ years. All I can say is that the left showed us how to protest, they do not like their own methods used against them

How many times did the Rethugs shout down anyone who was against the war in Iraq as unpatriotic. It seems that shouting and denegrating is the only kind of discourse conservatives want to have. Listening to other people's ideas is simply out of the question because you have few if any valid points of reasonable debate.

Daniel,

Your own Hillary Clinton pointed out that criticising the government is not unpatriotic, are you saying that she lied?

Of course Democrats want to go to feel good, warm and fuzzy meetings, hold hands, and pat each other on the back "Oh what a fine job you're doing", reality is Republicans are americans to and have the right to have their voice heard, regardless of how hard Obama tries to silence them.

The 1st Amendment is your right america, take to the streets and use it.

Obama stated that he views the Bill of Rights as a hinderance or a restraint on government, DAMN right it is, and thank God for that restraint.

Your own Hillary Clinton pointed out that criticising the government is not unpatriotic, are you saying that she lied?

None of these pro-healthcare people are suggesting that criticism of government is unpatriotic. You have a right to express your opinion, be heard, and then shut the F#%K up and let somebody else express their opinion.

This article and discussion is about those who are going to town meetings, not to express their opinions, but to drown out and overpower the opinions of others. It is rude, bullying behavior, and will eventually undermine your own intentions, because it shows exactly how ignorant these "protesters" really are.

Exactly so! It's not about being obnoxiously right. It's about being obnoxiously obnoxious louder than anybody else.

Industrial Strength:

"Obama stated that he views the Bill of Rights as a hinderance or a restraint on government, DAMN right it is, and thank God for that restraint."

And what was it again, that George W. Bush said about being the dictator? "A dictatorship would not be so bad, as long as I'm the dictator." How conveniently you forget.

I don't remember seeing coverage of "leftwingers" disrupting town hall meetings and preventing democracy during the Bush Admin...oh, yeah that's right...that's because they screened people before letting them enter to make sure it looked like everyone agreed with them! They wouldn't even allow certain reporters in fearing they might actually ask a non-scripted question!

Absolutely everyone should be allowed to discuss the pros and cons to the bill. But chanting and yelling during a meeting prevents discussion and hurts the process.

Government isn't smart enough to do this job. I worked government health care. Talk about being put out to pasture. No incentives and low moral.

wahoogus:

Currently, under private insurance, there is legal recourse (read sue, sue, sue).

When the government takes over health care, you're only recourse is bureaucratic red tape procedures subject to a $15,000 a year clerk telling you no. That's so the person of authority can hide from the public.

Of course, you can sue the government (hope you can recognize sarcasm readily).

appraizer,

You must first obtain permission from the government before you can sue it. Good luck with that.

Government isn't smart enough to do this job. I worked government health care. Talk about being put out to pasture. No incentives and low moral.

What did you do in government health care? Just saying you worked it makes no sense. In what capacity did you serve? Because your posting seems like it was posted by someone of low intelligence. I would hope a doctor, nurse, or MA would at least know how to spell the word "morale".

Typical of a disrespecting person. I don't know your political affiliation but your total lack of respect for the Office of the President of the United States says a lot about how you fell about our system of government.

Again, you can disagree with a persons point of view, choices, etc. without being disrespectful. The right to speak your mind does not include keeping others from having their say also. Yelling down the opposition because you do not agree with their point of view is not exercising your 1st Amendment right. Its only a 1st Amendment right if the opposition has an equal opportunity to state their view, while you listen respectfully. You can still disagree, but you don't have to be disagreeable in doing so.

SewBuzy99- No one is proposing socialized medicine. You owe it to yourself and your children to educate yourself on what a government proposed plan is and what people it will benefit. There is no restriction on what Dr you would see, or what tests they may order. Are you saying that health care is a-okay right now?

United WE Stand:

90% of Americans have health insurance currently, lets expand that by reforming the current system, not by creating a whole new system that will affect everyone, including those satisfied with their current health care.

I'll believe these politicians when they abandon their health care perks or include themselves in the plan they are trying to shove down our throats.

90% of Americans have health insurance currently

That number is completely bogus and you know it. There are over 50 million uninsured in our country, and the numbers are going up every day.

So what are you going to do? Go to a town hall meeting and keep shouting out that bogus statistic over and over and let nobody else get a word in edgewise? You are a despicable person! Peddle your lies elsewhere!

Morgan,

what is bogus is citing 50 million uninsured (real estimates 47 mill). bout 12 mill of that are illegal immigrants, bout 10 mill young people who don't think they need insurance, another 10 mill that are don't have it but make more than 75K annual and can afford it... that leaves about 15 million that actually need help. It would be way cheaper for the USA to buy them all insurance then 'throe the baby out with the bathwater" and create a 'public system"

Legitimate reform is needed... how about starting with tort reform... oh I'm sorry the trial lawyers who support the democrat controlled congress and are buds with Obama won"t go for that. even if it has been demonstrated in Texas where tort reform happened to make a big difference in reducing heal care costs.

Why should Americans trust the gov't to efficiently run anything ? Look at Social Security, Medicare even the Post Office. All in deep financial difficulty. Creat a gov't agency and watch it'd bureacracy grown while it becomes 'top heavy' with burecrats it fails to provide the service it was designed to do. When you do not have the same incentive to effeciently run an organization- called profit in the private sector- govt agencies just muddle along and the quality of service to the public suffers.

Someone loses their health insurance every 13 seconds, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So if it isn't 50 million uninsured right now, it will be in about a year.

Maxie-1260849, where do you get all the neat figures? Do they come to you in a dream? 12 million are illegal immigrants? Did you get that from the last census? Oh, that's right, they wouldn't show up in a census...they're illegal immigrants. 10 million are young people that don't think they need insurance? Really? Where did that figure come from? Another 10 million are "self-insured" because they make over 75k? Wow! You are a numbers wizard. The best, though, is when you start by saying 50 million is way off and that it's really only about 47 million. Amazing! So it's "only" 15 million that are uninsured. I doubt it...but even if true, what about the millions that are under-insured? Oh, who cares - we have insurance, right, so they can all rot!

Yeah, tort reform will fix everything, because the real reason the boot I had to get for my broken ankle cost over $400 was because a doctor that left a sponge in somebody got sued. Give me a break (but not my ankle again, please). I'm sure tort reform will cure all ills, and, Lord knows, if Texas does it we all should! Because Texas is the epitome of success...especially education and prison reform.

And it's a bit odd that several people here seem to mention Social Security, Medicare, and the Post Office and saying they are failures. Almost sounds scripted, but that's not possible... Social Security, by the way, is fine for years and would be even better if certain administrations hadn't "borrowed" from it for other purposes. Medicare? Funded for years to come. The Post Office? Probably has charged too little for postage for years, but if they had raised their rates folks like you probably would have complained about that as well. Do you happen to know what the administrative costs of Medicare vs. private insurance are, by the way? Wanna talk about top-heavy bureaucracy? Didn't think so.

"Another 10 million are "self-insured" because they make over 75k"

This is laughable. I make well over 75k and I would be bankrupted by self-insuring. I can barely see my salary over the outrageous cost of my healthcare as it is -- which chews up over $1000 of my check every month, not including co-pays and extra fees and profit margins that I must supply in order to keep our healthcare system innovative obscenely profitable.

I think most Teabaggers don't know this because they already have government funded healthcare. Their primary concern seems to be keeping the Negroes from getting it too, thus the fullisade of ridiculous lies and smears.

What will happen if someone doesn't - As it stand right now - more and more people can't afford healthcare - I don't care what party you are from - reform needs to happen and happen soon as we are sooo far behind other countries that pretty soon we will be one of the third world countries in need of help and not the other way around.

Mufdvrss396...nice ID.

Sorry, but several of the people involved in these "protests" have been identified as employees of lobbying concerns, so you are wrong. Most people are not as obnoxious as the people that are "protesting" at these meetings and preventing anybody else from saying anything, even from responding to the canned questions they are posing. In case you haven't noticed, there are several instances of other members of audiences being shouted down if they don't agree with the "protesters'" agendae - they are not just disrespecting the evil, awful, yada yada yada, liberal, socialist, communist, martian, Kenyan (or whatever else) government officials.

This whole thing is as bogus as the "Tea Parties" that were also "grass roots" movements. If you want big business and the wealthy running everything, just keep singing the same tune you already are...

It "don't" - well I'll be!

Ask the folks that lived in fascist Italy how true that is. You don't think millions of dollars of "support" spent on a person running for office has any effect? You think that lobbyists and such are idiots that just throw money around because they have too much?

Sure.

Really? Were the Cindy Sheehan protests similarly scripted? Or is it just that you are looking at things through your own political spectrum? It's funny how you think it's not possible that Americans could possibly be outraged or well-informed on this issue. It MUST be a conspiracy because everyone openly embraces the provisions put forth, am I right?

Who funded Cindy Sheehan's protests? Who scripted them for her?

This argument has been offered by several people here, but it is specious and a misdirection. The "powers" behind the Teabag/Tea Party protests, as well as these town hall protests, have been identified and it is not a lone woman whose son was killed in a war we should not have been involved in.

Nothing to do with the matter at hand; one might consider that obfuscation.

But since you brought it up: All of the Senate? So it was 100-0 on the vote? None of those that voted "yea" ever expressed any regret over their vote (Republican or Democrat, I don't care).

At that time, based on the "info" we were given by the Bush Administration, hell, yeah, even I wanted a yes vote on that war! I even kept hoping that those weapons of mass destruction were found so we could tell the French and Russians, HA! There they were! We TOLD YOU SO!!!

That didn't happen because there WERE NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. We were LIED TO.

Doesn't take Einstein to figure that one out.

I have no problem with the protests, but EVERYONE needs to be able to speak out - not just those who are screaming the loudest. People go to those meetings because they want to hear for themselves what their elective representative has to say. When they are disrupted by people who aren't even from that district, but are there to simply disrupt the meeting, then they are out of line.

Those who oppose the idea of this plan need to sit down and listen just like they want people to listen to them. All that screaming makes me want to shut them out.

Debate is the open discussion of ideas FROM BOTH SIDES. let it be so.

BLs65-634377

Though it is true that in a discussion EVERYONE needs to be able to speak out what we are seeing are protests. This is because not everyone is getting the chance to voice thier opinion. The People are being told by their leaders how it is goingto be and The People are protesting against the Sit down and shut up mind set of the political elite. Branding disenting opinion as 'Mob mentality' is not giving everyone a chance to speak, it is telling those that disagree that their opinion does not count and that is the real problem. Don't get me wrong it happens all the time no matter which party is in power but, that never makes it right and the voice of the people must be heard one way or another.

SkipSmith-

Do you have a source for your statement? IP addresses? Really?

skipsmith, I have heard that as well, he can have mine, I am an AMERICAN, and I AM NOT AFRAID OF HIM

Cornyn was responding to a post on the White House's blog Wednesday in which users are asked to help stop the spread of disinformation about legislation to overhaul health insurance. The post offers an e-mail address, flag@whitehouse.gov, for users to forward anything "on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy."

The White House said the post was merely designed to fight "intentionally misleading" information in the health care debate.

"We want to be sure people have the facts about health insurance reform that will lower costs, protect consumers from insurance regulations that deny them coverage and assure quality and affordable health care for all Americans," said Adam Abrams, a White House spokesman. He said no lists or sources of the information would be compiled.

The word that you are looking for is "Gestapo".

Hey, you folks with the foil hats...

Naziism, fascism, Gestapo, whatever else you want to use, is related to a form of government where that government and corporate entities work hand-in-hand, holding down those that are "not as fortunate" as those in power. While I'm sure it's fun to make up stuff and call people names, you might want to consider that the previous "regime" would fit that title a bit more aptly than the current. When staged protests occur, this is where the fear of fascism should rise up.

Making up stories about those on the left as protesting funerals or comparing Cindy Sheahan's grass roots protests to those of organized corporate protests passing themselves off as grass roots either displays ignorance (willful or otherwise) or exposes you as a shill of corporate greed. If you want to protest, do so honestly and avoid the labeling that is malicious and false - it makes you small.

Oddly enough they are offering you the same plan that they have. I'm a federal employee and through the "large pool" created by federal employees my premiums are a third of the private sector. It could start sooner than 2013 but that's all the bought off members of congress are willing to offer us. Protest yes, but not to the extent that you or your fellow citizens can't even discuss the issue.

Unfortunately you have missed or have ignored who are sponsoring this so called "free speech issue" ...

The article is not propaganda but a accurate description of the radical Neocons who will say or do anything in order to prop up the dwindling GOP membership.

The GOP is bankrupt of new ideas and leadership which points to using any tactic. One only has to listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, Malkin, Palin and one cannot forget the clowns at Fox News.

The protesters are nothing but yapping fools bankrolled by private insurers and other private interests. When being celebrated by the "Right" speaks volumes for the devoid GOP.

Yes there is a limit on free speech. You can't infringe on the right of others to have free speech. Doing that is facism. These are paid hacks who have been given a playbook to disrupt and deny the free speech of others. $1.4 Million a day is going to these hacks and to ads to keep people in the dark and to keep them terminally stupid.

What about the small fact that these protesters are NOT just Conservatives? They are Democrats, Republicans, and Independents and no where have I heard anyone saying to go to these things to protest, these are the Citizens of the United States of America voicing their right to not have legislation they don't want crammed down their throats!!!! Maybe if you dolts hadn't just jump on the bandwagon of blame the republicans and stop following like zombies you see that the only people who want this reform are in Washington.

Oh yea, go report me to flag@whitehouse.gov if you want, its where you can report on your fellow citizens for not going along with Obama's health care reform, sounds more like Nazi Germany than the USA to me!!

Got your back against Big Brother! They don't understand what being a real American is, so they call us bullies, but sometimes you have to overlook their stupidity, due to the fact that they want hand outs, drugs, and had to go through an education system that hates God and Country! When it is them doing the hollering and moaning then it is freedom, well guess what Libs, the Silent Majority has awaken and we shall not let you destroy our country and freedoms!

The President and Congress are already covered by a government plan. Geez.

Betzee, I'm a federal employee under the same plan as the President and Congress. No one picks my doctor for me, my premiums are a third of those in the private sector. Why on God's green earth would you not want that for every single citizen? I suppose you don't like government controlled law enforcement? I wonder if all of these senior citizens who are protesting realize that if they are on Medicare they are already under a "Government Controlled Heath Care Plan"?

Actually, the public "option' will NOT be the same plan that federal employees have. Why on God's green earth don't you actually read the bill?

As to your second point, Medicare is a government controlled health care plan, you are correct. And it's going broke. Get the connection?

I haven't read "the bill" myself, since there isn't one. Makes it difficult.

Lots of things are going broke...some of those things are the government's fault, some are not. It doesn't help when certain administrations make a habit out of stealing money in order to fulfill their agendae. Can you offer any specifics about Medicare and how it is going broke and when it is expected to go into the red? Maybe that's in "the bill" as well, huh?