I would not even go there. Poleosi recently wanted 550 million to haul her Queen scum ass around, Dobbs setting on board of AIG, Frank Openly Gay. How many of your crew are voting baby killers. I do I could do this all day long just to mush to work with.. You talk about sexcapades not that long ago I remember a Bill Clinton and what do you call what he was doing .Bye your own insurance , Be responsible for your self. Don't always have your hand out. and expect the government to bail you out. For government doing everything for you is a form of slavery. One way or another you will pay for it. If you look whats going on does not it look like Chavez had done. Everything in the governments hands is Socialism

A bunch of Republican whiners who could care less about prison abuse, torture, or false intell that killed thousands

Obama is as much a Warmonger and is guilty of the above as much as Bush, so you're wrong there. 

Where is the crying when Sanford and Ensign spent thousands of our money on their sexcapades?

The Democrats have as much scandal and corruption as the Republicans, so you're wrong there.

Meanwhile the healthcare industry increased their profits 425% over the last few years leaving millions uncovered overinflating premiums.

If you do your Homework, you'll find out we're in this Healthcare mess because of the Government  who years ago started the whole HMO debacle, and because there are so many GOVERNMENT Regulations and Mandates, so you're wrong there.

I would not be surprised that these blowhards against the plan were not paid off by the healthcare industry.

Wrong again - these are just Regular Citizens who don't want to kill the US Economy and become a failed Socialist State like the European Countries are.

How is resisting further encroachment of the government into private industry a protest based on "dis-information" or "un-american"??

The arrogance of these "representatives of the people" is amazing. They feel they know more than you and I about what we need or don't need. They feel they have a perfect right to dip further into our pockets to GIVE healthcare to illegal aliens and societal rejects who neither contribute to the system nor deserve the fruit therefrom. They feel they have a right to force coverage on young people who have decided they don't need coverage at this time and can better spend their money elsewhere.

The Obama Team (Pelosi, Reid, Kennedy, Frank, Dodd, Hoyer among others) need to be stopped now and at every instance they attempt to destroy this great nation. We need to reject the Carbon Cap & Trade, we need to reject Comprehensive Immigration Reform (AMNESTY). We need to be vigilant for the next 31/2 years against the socialist agenda, and we need to begin turning these arrogant bastards out of office starting in 2010.

I'm not even going to dissect this nonsense... pddoc, you're a lemming. Maybe this proposed healthcare legislation will contain a provision to allow a brain to be implanted in your cranium thus allowing you to think. No, wait, that would go against the Dems main objective... you'll just have to remain a lemming. But probably not for long if this proposed legislation becomes law and you happen to get sick... you'll simply be left to die by you beloved Dems! Moron!!!!!!!!!

This country is not interested in yet another tax that will distroy our economy this administration has already spent enough. This administration has already destroyed our economy enough.

They have no desire to even run social security, on the democrats watch the social security administration had a 700.000 dollar party what was done about it NOTHING.

The desire of this administration to spend this country into a third world country has awakend people up who previously didn't have an interest in politics but now see they have made a grave mistake.

Obama is surprised by the mob mentality? He should get on Newsvine and see the extent of the ignorance spewed by the right wing. They listen to the most ignorant of the pundits, the Palins and Limbaughs of the world. They listen to the ones that spread ignorance and fear on a subject they know nothing about. DON'T tell me Palin has read or comprehended the health care bill. The morons upseting the town hall meetings are paid azzholes, and should be kicked out. They aren't protesting, they are disrupting.

Jeania

The Democrats have as much scandal and corruption as the Republicans, so you're wrong there.

Yes but they resign history shows this unlike Sanford and Ensign. Proof where you have lies.

If you do your Homework, you'll find out we're in this Healthcare mess because of the Government who years ago started the whole HMO debacle, and because there are so many GOVERNMENT Regulations and Mandates, so you're wrong there.

Wrong again. The insurance industry caused this mess by premiums. You are full of falsehoods.

I would not be surprised that these blowhards against the plan were not paid off by the healthcare industry.

You lied again - proven fact these are conservative plants

Gee whiz, Salem. When moveon.org did war protests it was just exercising of first amendment rights; but when some average citizens protest a healthcare bill almost nobody wants, it's disrupting? And by the way, nice use of the typical liberal name calling - it's so effective.

I can only suppose, from your post, that this plan will insure prisoners and include a minister with every consultation, to preclude infidelity. And of couse the 200 million people that are against this plan are being paid off by the insurance, but don't worry, they will run out money soon trying to pay all of us..

No one who works or pays taxes will support this bill.

We know that Mr. Obama doesn't necessarily think that older people should have surgeries, even life saving surgieries. He said that in his answer to a woman in his own Townhall who relayed a story about her elderly mother.

He said well [instead of surgery] maybe this woman should have been given some pain pills.
Guess who else said this? That's right, Mr. Obama's right hand man Rahm Emmanuel. Furthermore, Mr. Obama said, well end of life care is difficult and there has to be rules. RULES... how about rules in the court room for our JUDGES and EMPATHY in our HEALTH CARE?!!! I don't want the government to decide who lives and who doesn't OR EVEN the quality of life. This should NOT be in the HANDs of the government.

Robert Gibbs is just now saying on MSNBC that in fact they are still planning on passing this bill. WHY do they think people are YELLING??? THEY CAN'T HEAR....maybe they need to be the leaders of this WONDERFUL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM and be the first to go on it Maybe that would help their hearing, too?!! Mmm, end of life care counseling for Ms. Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank, Barabra Boxer....they all qualify..they are all 65yrs or older? Do you think they would go on a system that wouldn't allow them surgery that they needed for quality of life??

They want to talk about all the options....HOWEVER, what they don't tell you is that if you don't have any health insurance you will be REQUIRED to go on this GOVERNMENT SELECTION. This is a fact....I read it in the bill, myself! We KNOW that Mr. Obama wants single payer system, he said so, this is his way of getting there.

When liberals protest, often violently, it's fine.  When they bring in hired thugs from the SEIU and stack a room full of sympathizers, that's okay.  They're "community organizers".

But when old people, people in wheelchairs, middle aged people, show up, they're "unamerican" and "a mob"?

This administration is going too far with this, and it will be their downfall.

AND, I wanted to see this work, because I do believe the spending currently happening in the status quo is not sustainable.

But the solutions being offered by Washington do nothing to cut costs, besides on paper in "in the future".  We saw how closely their projections didn't match reality with Cash for Clunker, and that only had $1 billion budget - and no one's life was on the line. 

They are trying to do too much, too fast, with money we do not have, on an issue that is far too close to home for people to just ignore it.  And they're doing it in a government heavy way that can do nothing but lead to cost overruns and rationing.  Who can believe that without thousands more doctors, nurses and facilities, that 50 million more people can come into the system and there NOT be rationing?  Oh, and illegal aliens are part of that 50 million - an issue Obama has decided "isn't important enough" for this year.  Because he wants there vote, period.

When the following three relatively easy things are done:

1. Clean up the current Medicare/caid system, and target the $80 billion dollars wasted annually on fraud, abuse and inefficiency.

2. Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.  Competition and the ability to form larger risk pools will save billions, to both the consumer and the healthcare industry.

3. Tort reform.  Defensive medicine costs the system billions, malpractice insurance costs the system billions.

When those three things are done, then and ONLY THEN should we look to start spending money.

Was that mob like, was that lie based?  Liberals, wake up.  There may be fear mongering going on, but there are also solid objections based on economic fact that are going unaddressed.  When asked why there was no tort reform, one Senator responded, "well, we can't do everything at once."  No, we can't do anything that makes sense, or takes money out of our lawyer buddies pockets.

And finally.

If it is not good enough for Congress themselves, why is it good enough for us?

It's silly to even discuss health care reform any further, in my opinion.

The insurance company lobbyists won this months ago.

I would have liked to have seen health care options for people without insurance, but that's just not going to happen.

We won't hear much about health care reform until the next Prez election.

Which is unfortunate.

They could have done this SO differently, and achieved small successes building into a much better system for everyone. Instead they insist on doing everything at once, in an economic climate that simply cannot support the idea of trillions of dollars in additional spending.

i just watched a video of obamas speech to the ama. in it he stated that the plan in congress would effectively create a single payer system, socialized medecine, within 10-15 years. employer health insurance would be put out of business. you do not want health care rubn by the government. the VA system is a prime example. there is a need for reform, but reform the law suits, how many people who spill coffee in their lap should be awarded multimillion dollar amounts. the settlements are ignorant. that is what is driving up malpractice insurance. that is why your doctor orders tests that probably shouldnt be needed. cya is what it is all about and until the lawyers are reined in it wont stop.

pddoc, you recon this issue down to a party split. That is the furthest thing from the truth. Over and Over I have seen Democrats on here who are afraid of this plan. The biggest issue, I think, is that no information has been put out on the plan. The Obama administration has town hall discussions, but can't answer the peoples questions. Americans feel like its being pushed on them and they aren't ready for something that they have no information on. Its way too important an issue to just rush through Congress.

No worries!

If Obamacare doesn't work, I have a sneaking suspicion it will then be referred to as: Bushcare.

"You know if Bush hadn't wrecked the country, we wouldn't need this healthcare bill"

Or something to that effect.

I can hear the wheels turning already!

The reason President Obama is rushing through the health care bill is so people won't know what's in it before it becomes law. As the mainstream media continues to do a shoddy job at reporting while dissing the New Media, let's give them (and the president) a reason to speed up…

Pg 22 — MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!
Pg 30 Sec 123 — THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get
Pg 42 — The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your healthcare benefits for you. You have no choice!
Pg 50 Section 152 — Health care will be provided to ALL non-citizens, illegal or otherwise
Pg 59 Lines 21-24 — Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer
Pg 65 Sec 164 — A payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions and community organizations (ACORN)
Pg 95 Lines 8-18 — The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for government health care plan
Pg 127 Lines 1-16 — Doctors/AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can make.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 — An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 — Employers MUST pay for health care for part time employees AND their families.

Oh, there's over 1,000 pages of fun facts. Jot down a few notes and ask your representative or senator a few informed questions during the August break, and be sure and mention "2010″ a few times.
Have fun.

Good Post, PragmaticToAFault, the truth caused the "libby entitlers and slackers" to collapsed you, so I re posted it.

They can't stand the truth and are the biggest hypocrites of all.

When liberals protest, often violently, it's fine. When they bring in hired thugs from the SEIU and stack a room full of sympathizers, that's okay. They're "community organizers".

But when old people, people in wheelchairs, middle aged people, show up, they're "unamerican" and "a mob"?

This administration is going too far with this, and it will be their downfall.

I gone to these meetings, are they orchestrated? Yeah, by both sides.

The first two rows are taken up by union thugs (who have been documented as beating up those who disagree with them), and in the back are a bunch of old folks screaming and chanting. They plan on voting their unhappiness (note the non violence), and if published stats are right, these old folks vote at a higher percentage than other age groups. The politicians have reason to be scared.

The difference is there is more opposition than support for an "open ended" health care reform bill that nobody can say for sure what the final version is.

It is interesting that most opposition is from grannys and gramps on medicare and medicaid. Since they are part of a government run program, it doesn't appear they have much confidence in a government run health care.

As a veteran, I have to agree, the VA hasn't shown it is a better system than the private sector system. It has shown long waiting periods, poor quality care by less than qualified doctors and nurses, and a bureaucratic process to boot.

This "PROPOSED" bill is not liked by even members of their own party If they have read it), and will cause a lot of them to lose their next election. Probably going to bring the Republican Party back from the brink of extinction.

Obama has NOT put forward a compelling bill - the Congressional Budget Office has stated time and time again this bill can NOT sustain itself and would cause the deficit to increase significantly. The bill does nothing for reforming the health care cost structure as Obama stated he was targeting when he first introduced it. Now he calls it health insurance reform - code words for government controlled health care through payment control.

The debate is that this legislation does nothing but enable a power grab for the government. It does NOT address the root cause problems. All Americans want cost effective care so that all can afford insurance. This legislation totally misses the mark.

That is the debate... That is the question Obama and the Democrats have yet to even acknowledge. That is why Americans are getting soooo upset. Your representatives in Washington are saying in affect shut up, you are to stupid to understand... or better yet you are Un-American - my god how more American can you be if you are seeking representation and answers from your government...

You underestimate the lefty loons Robinhood.

Come 2010, they will claim the right is "planting" all these "Joe the Plumbers" to disrupt the voting process. Ya know, sorta like the thugs intimidating people outside the polling booths during the last Presidential election.

All they have are tricks up their sleeves and no real plan. Well see if the American public really knows what's going on come 2010, but remember there are still plenty of "pddocs" out there who will never try to understand, let alone make an informed decision.

All I have seen this administration do is throw good money after bad. Billions later we still have skyrocketing unemployment.

The "Cash for Clunkers" program is another scam. I hope those using the $4500 realize that they need to keep this car for at least 30 years and keep giving it to there children and grandchildren because the money didn't just fall from the sky, it's all taxpayer dollars and you will pay from now till you die and then your children will enherit the debt; so plan on keeping it awhile.

The other thing that seems funny about Obama is if you can't throw money at it then it must wait, ie; immigration reform.

I'm 62 and work all my life at manual labor jobs, retired when I was 50 and never asked a sole for a dime. Isn't it time we all took some personal responsibility for our own finances, kids and our lives and stop being lead around by the "Pied Piper" and his band of thieves?

Just my 2 cents worth.

Clint, don't ever change your login name! It's one of the best!

pddoc: Are you spewing what your Mommy and Daddy told you? Or perhaps a professor? First of all, we're not whining. Any American with common sense knows we cannot AFFORD this. Slow down and write a bill that makes sense and then maybe we'll shut up. I would rather see my 75 year old mother die naturally than put her down like an old dog. You do understand that's what they are proposing don't you? Or did Mommy and Daddy fail to mention that part. Second of all, and just to be clear......republicans aren't whining ........ we're yelling. This administration has spent us into oblivion. My tax dollars have been spent until I'm a little old lady and then some. What is it with you dumocrats that you can't stop spending my money?

I know President Obama isn't used to it but, the President should try straight talk instead of slick talk when explaining his vision to the American people. He is evasive and talks around questions when asked. That does not inspire confidence, it makes people wonder what you are hiding.

Yea thousands not a trillion

I agree. If the republicans had a real reason to oppose this bill, why do they find it necessary to LIE? It looks to me like the actions of desperate and stupid people. But it is the republican stock in trade to lie, deceive and frighten their gullible base.

Clearly the republican leaders have no respect for their minions, and it appears they have no need to respect them. Hate, lies and thuggery have become the standard for these very stupid people.

For all you that are concerned, Rep. Fleming has introduced a bill in the House HR 615, stating anyone that votes for the healthcare bill will participate for it, so far no takers from the Dems. www.fleming.house.gov to sign a petition forcing politicians to become participants if they vote AYE.

You need to actually speak with some of the people who disagree with the health care plans. You may be surprised that they have a higher degree of intelligence than you. If you take an objective look to the feelings of the people, the polls will indicate that the majority of people disagree with Obama. The democratic party has done an effective job of demonizing the private sector on many levels. However, I believe that the democratic party my now be receiving some of what it has dished out. The American people should take a long look at the "greed", and "corruption" that is taking place in the political parties (Republican and Democrat). After some time to reflect on the matter is there anyone who would be able to trust our political representatives.

I must say I cant imagine how anyone would ever question the direction of the government, no matter which group of partisan thinkers are in control. It is well known that these selfless leaders have only the best interests of the citizens at heart no matter which party is in power. Even though they are always right they welcome questions and relish the opportunity to interact with their constituents with whom they share much, especially when one considers the spartan lifestyle they live and their unselfish giving to the needy, depleting their meager resources for the common good. Yes these paragons of virtue are indeed a perfect example of citizenship and we should thank our lucky stars that we are alive today to see them at work and reap the benefits of their vision. There are malcontents on both sides who would maintain that the other side lies and their side is truthful and honest, but as I see it they are both swell and since their methods are so similar one could hardly separate them as their special purpose is serving us and protecting us from ourselves, since we are absolutely pathetic creatures that can hardly use our zippers properly.

They got the headline wrong. It should say: "White House Determined To Force Unwanted Government Health Care On U.S. Citizens."

Unless he drops the forced individual mandate (2.5% tax penalty on your adjusted gross income if you don't have insurance) and drops the public option, people just are not going to accept it.

But I'm sure he'll force it on us anyway.

The biggest problem with this administration and the Democrats in Congress is that they're too idealistic and too stubborn to see the consequences of their plans not going exactly the way they see them in their heads.

"The CBO is wrong in their estimate of the costs because people are going to become healthier and we're going to see significant savings from that." Well what if people don't get healthier? What if people keep eating greasy, fattening, high cholesterol foods and not working out? What if unemployment rises because businesses are forced to cut their workforce to pay for the employer mandated insurance coverage or subsequent penalty for not providing it? Not all employers are evil and cut coverage out as a way to increase profits, some simply can't survive with it. What if the wealthy invest less and start fewer businesses because they're getting hammered no their income tax increases and capital gains tax increases which will be yet another strike against businesses and employment? What if health care providers can't keep up with the influx of patients due to overuse of their new "cheap" health insurance? What if your estimates are off, which is highly likely based on what we've seen so far from this administration, and this legislation costs two or three or five times as much as they think?

It's not all rainbows and sunshine out there. Right now they're thinking not only that people will get healthier so they'll use less health care but they're also thinking that the behavior of the wealthy won't change because they're disproportionately getting hammered with tax increases, and don't think they'll stop at the wealthy. We have 9.4% unemployment and somehow they think making running a business more costly will result in more people being hired? Health care providers are already overworked but they think they can handle another 50 million people overusing their insurance, oh that's right, people are going to be healthier and not abuse their insurance like many already do.

Slow down B.O. and get this right while considering the alternatives. The real world isn't like your "town hall meetings" or "press conferences" that are completely scripted, you can't make everything work out the way you want it to.

Where were the liberals condeming free speach when Hillary made her speech in 03 about "citizens rights to speal out against government",or when the media gave nightly coverage to the mother of a soldier killed in iraq camping outside presidents home protesting.I now believe since the media is now giving airtime to these town hall meetings,the "astroturf"protests they now call them,because only the liberals can have "grassroots" movements,you will see events that will be staged to discredit.Do they really think that by taking millions from medicaid,that people,real people won't be concerned?Do they think that citizens,seeing the way other government programs are poorly run,wouldn't be hesitant at best?Arrogance seems to be the fuel that runs POTUS and lawmakers,majority of which have been there too long and lost touch with American citizens,yes,it's our fault for sending them back year in year out,but WE also hold the power to change that,Americans cannot wait for the change,we will have to be that change if we want our country back.

You need to actually speak with some of the people who disagree with the health care plans. You may be surprised that they have a higher degree of intelligence than you.

You cant be serious, the next thing you will be saying is there are people who are nearly as bright as our fearless leaders in Washington. How can you question the thoughts or proposals of these selfless public servants? They give they work tirelessly for the common good, never thinking of the political fallout from their actions, no, they are only thinking of the peoples business. The next think you will be saying is these people might use taxpayers money for their own benefit! Please quit speaking, you are rocking the boat!

The democrats keep saying these protesters have been paid to protest health care.

So I ask the question: Where do I go to get paid?

Thank you for the comic relief Carlos. I truly appreciate your skepticism, which has been entirely earned by our elected officials, of politicians but I would lay off the sarcasm a little, some people might think you're serious and that your name is merely a pseudonym for B.O., Nancy or Harry.

I will tell you one thing the president has never had paid protesters to work for him. He comes from Chicago the city that works. Talk about a perfect government! They keep reelecting these great leaders! that's perfect! Its almost like they don't need elections! People just kind of sense that the right people will win, every time! Some malcontents complain but its pretty well known they are under educated boobs. And the grass roots movements, did you know they have buses and travel all over the place to do good work, we know its good work because they work on behalf of the wonderful leaders who cheerfully serve the people, doing good and making the world a better place for all who agree with them.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR US

GREAT quote!!!!! I think the DEMOCRAT and Republican protesters should have signs that say this at their protests.

Reality Check, yeah, the American People have finally had enough and the dems are being shown for what they really are. Really check, my a@*.

pddoc you are so right. Where was the crying when the torture, false intell, prison abuse, ect...was happening. When we want to do something good the Republican nutties are out in force.

the obama Administration should realize, many people voted for him because they considered him the lesser of two evils against McCain. They did NOT vote for him because they wanted every liberal idea that's been floated around for the last 40 years to be implemented.

btw, I did vote for mCCain, even though I thought he was a weak candidate on Republican side. I possibly would have voted for Hilary if she got on Democratic ticket, but knew Obama was WAY too far left, regardless what he said during campaign and it's holding true.

Who can believe that without thousands more doctors, nurses and facilities, that 50 million more people can come into the system and there NOT be rationing? Oh, and illegal aliens are part of that 50 million - an issue Obama has decided "isn't important enough" for this year. Because he wants there vote...

Pragmatic:

Your statement is typical of the ignorance swirling around on this site.

Are you aware that illegal aliens would NOT be covered under this plan?

Are you aware that illegal aliens have NO voting rights at all in this country?

Hold on a minute. If we let the Government take over the healthcare industry what's next, the auto industry? Oh, my bad. Sorry....

Obama admitted during the campaign that he supports a single payer system, i.e. Socialized Medicine; and, his "Government Option" is designed to force private insurers out of the market in order to achieve precisely that goal. As Obama said: "I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process..." Barney Frank then unashamedly admitted that Obama's "Public Option" was simply a Trojan Horse for surreptitiously introducing full blown Socialized Medicine. The American people have astutely spoken loud and clear that Socialized Medicine is anathema; but, Obama's Marxist psyche prohibits him from accepting free market reforms which should begin with shutting down illegal immigration and Tort Reform, both of which Obama unconditionally rejects. Obama's ACORN is busily registering illegals; and, Trial Lawyers are among his principal campaign contributors. But the most insidious part of Obama's plan is the coming bureaucratic denial of life saving procedures for the elderly. As Obama says: "Take an aspirin" and just wait to die. ( Pg 30: SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.AND, PG 430: SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.) The elderly should revolt over Obama's health care proposals. He learned from his wife Michelle that considerable sums of health care funds could be saved by the practice of "patient dumping" which Michelle employed in Chicago. Facts that are precisely why Health Care legislation, that HAD TO BE DONE BY YESTERDAY, does not take effect until 2013, i.e. AFTER the next presidential election when voters will then be blindsided by a pending disaster. And, just remember that Obama and his Congressional colleagues have EXEMPTED themselves from compliance with their own proposed health care debacle. Greg Neubeck

Why can't we just cut the illegals out of the proposed insurance? Why are the dems so adamant about giving them and their children health benefits? We have to YELL to be heard. WE DO NOT want to insure illegals! (and yes, I know why they want to give them insurance; it's more votes)

Are you aware that illegal aliens would NOT be covered under this plan?

Then why are people providing actual pages in the current bill that shows where it says it does?

Pg 50 Section 152 — Health care will be provided to ALL non-citizens, illegal or otherwise

Are you claiming this is false?

Sherri, are you aware that there's nothing to prevent illegals from being covered under the current proposals? And they only don't have voting rights until ACORN gets a hold of them.

Idiot-

What does the torture of a terrorist who wantonly kills,maims and beheads innocent civillians and the stealing of our money by ALL Congresspeople have to do with the fact that your master Obama wants to force a health plan on us that he  and the rest of scumbag congress wont sign onto for themselves and their families. You wont be able to see the light of day if you dont take your head out of your ---.

After we give the illegals free health care, the next arguement will be "well, they already have health insurance, their children are in our schols, we should just give them citizenship. I mean, hey, they are already here, right?." Send them home, along with their children. Stop taxing our public systems with their illegal benefits. Once that is done, we can start talking about reform!

sherri2012:

Your statement is typical of the ignorance swirling around on this site.

Are you aware that illegal aliens would NOT be covered under this plan?

Are you aware that illegal aliens have NO voting rights at all in this country?

Your statements above are NOT accurate. Obama is planning to tackle immigration this fall. All indications are that he plans on giving amnesty to those illegals, thus, giving them the ability to be covered under the public plan.

Explain why so many illegals have voter registration cards if they don't vote.

I really do hate to admit defeat, as I really wanted health care options available for people without health care, but that's not going to happen. (Yep, I am being passive agressive, so there.)

It's done! It's over! I lost! Nothing is going to change!

I just hope all of you who were against any change keep your jobs and your insurance!

I'll be watching Obama in NH very carefully.

If he does not QUOTE EXACT TEXT from the current form of the bill in trying to explain what is does or does not contain, then I have only reason to assume that Obama thinks me a fool.

Obama,

If you want to defend the bill,

QUOTE THE BILL.

I'm sure NH and the rest of the country would "love" to see what the exact text of that bill is.

My prediction: Obama does not quote the bill in NH. No worries though. Even more people will start to wake up.

he is suprised

king obama and princess pelosi might be more suprised when they are unemployed

thank god for hillary she yells at people in different countrys

these people are clueless

Greg. I disagree. Congress has already said it will use recociliation to get it through. I think that's what they will do to pass it. When they do however, it is going to erode voter confidence to the point that their careers will be over as politicians.

And also, when they do I can already see that their will be a lot of layoffs due to the fact that several small businesses just won't be able to afford to pay for it for all their employees and will have to implement layoffs to balance their budgets.

So, Yes, you will get it. But the economy will take a nosedive because of it. Of that I'm certain.

Paddoc, what a fool you are! While, the dummycrats have bailed out everyone and their mother, you want to jump on anyone other that those that are responsible for this mess. Its not just healthcare, its the bailout of the fatcats on wallstreet, the bankers, the corrupt unions, the auto industry, Fannie mae & freddie mac, and many others while slaughtering the small business people that made this country what it once was.

Now, we have a grassroots uprising primary consisting mainly of senior citizens . There has not been one act of physical violence from them. However, just yesterday in St Louis,there was physical violence bu the corrupt SEIU unions at the behest of the democratic thugs. And, Nancy Pelosi says they are UNAMERICAN!! ( WHILE WANTING A NEW JET TO CARRY HER DUMB ASS AROUND)How dare she. If this is what the democratic party is all about, I WANT NO PART OF THEM ! We are now seeing the retaking of america by the people that made it great. And they are senior citizens. (just goes to show how tough the old coggers are)

Greg,

You guys can always go to China, Cuba or Venezuela.

allied members of Congress have been sent home for the August break with a set of poll-tested talking points intended to shift the focus to the administration’s advertised benefits of the plan from the scary situations opponents have laid out.

Sounds like a trick that Herman Goebbels would have used. Why weren't they told to read up on the various bills as presented so they could discuss what was in them honestly.

pdddoc

So far you are the only one I've read in this discussion who is even remotely connected to reality. Those crying about insuring the uninsured are already paying for them. The reform will mean they pay less. Obviously, none of them have ever been sick enough to need their insurance company to come through for them. Of course, they don't even have to get sick. Somebody could crash their car or truck into them and they could need a whole lot of hospital care. When their insurance decides to deny them coverage or caps the amount of money they will spend on the coverage, then these repubs will be crying for help and they'll be glad we made reform happen. Also, a lot of the people who are protesting at the town halls are on Medicare. That means they are receiving single payer government run health care and I don't see any of them refusing to take the coverage. Keep the faith. Common sense will win out.

They are not refusing medicare because they are forced to pay for it you dumbass!! Have you ever seen a govt run program that contains cost. What an idiot!

pddoc, way off base. I am in the health care industry and I have received a 5% DECREASE in reimbursment rates from Medicare over the past 3 years for a total of 15% (by the way, the other insurance companies set their rates by Medicare rates so I received decreases with all other insurances as well). Another 10% was to go into effect in Jan but some of the few wise people left if Washington stopped that. If you knew anything you would understand that the insurance companies set the rates, not the health care professionals. I could charge $5000 for every person that walks into my clinic but I would still only get $85 per visit. My cost per patient however is $69 dollars and thats for the ones that have insurance; the other 15% are pure pro-bono. So until you live my life please don't try to tell me who the responsible party is for the current state of affairs. If you think for one minute this dumbass system that Obama has come up with is our saving grace your way, way out there. The only thing this plan provides is ever increasing control of the health care system by the government and nothing more.

thats it kelz just let the government do it instead, they'll get the job done better and more efficiently, they always do huh

Common Sense...hahahahaha. Here is some common sense. I doubt any of us would not welcome Health Care Reform but the problem here is THIS IS NOT REFORM. This is our Government taking control of an industry it has no business in. If you don't agree with that, let me put it to you another way. The dems control this administration now but what happens 4 yrs from now? 8 yrs from now? When there is another party in control what is to stop them from altering this Health Care proposal when it becomes a bill? What is to stop this current administration from implementing changes to this proposed legislation before it is passed? You call us paranoid liars, misinformed, mobs, etc., etc., but here is the real question how misinformed are we if we can forsee that in the wrong hands this bill could be deadly to the American Dream?

this is all about POLITICAL RHETORIC all over again !!!...this PERPETUAL DIARRHEA of the Political mouth has got to STOP...Washington has to sh*t or get off the POT..the lamb/ sheepeople of millions of eyes are watching their every move..their hot breath, is in fact; in their face..WE THE PEOPLE, MUST UNITE..Mr. President, piss the majority off..your controllers will lose control...this Country does not BELONG TO YOU..IT Belongs To, WE THE PEOPLE !!!...MR PRESIDENT, do the People RIGHT !!!..Don't use Despicable Greed, or Human Financial Turmoil on THEM..OR other ACTS OF CRUELTY against them, such as denial of old age, convenient abortion..denial of health and welfare due to net worth..to rant foolishly about taking care of the American People, and not doing them right...Will be a profound ACT OF EVIL, in this Country's History !!!...

Let's step back and view the whole painting. First came the stimulus bill. Billions were paid to banks because it was an emergency. A bill that nobody read but voted for anyways. However, banks like BOA has posted billions in profits last quarter. Did Bank Of America pay back the stimulus funds they were given? NO, they haven't.

Less than 16% of the stimulus package has been spent by our government to date. But Obama claims it was the stimulus package that saved America from going into a deep depression? Really? Now, Obama is using the unemployment numbers to show that things are getting better. Unfortunately, once Congress extends unemployment again, those that fell off unemployment due to it running out will be back on unemployment, driving the unemployment numbers back up.

Then came the Climate bill. Again, voted and passed without anyone fully reading the bill. This cap and tax bill will hurt America more than people realize.

Lastly came the Medical bill. People are actually reading his bill. This is why it has slowed down considerably. Obama didn't get his way through rushing Congress to vote on it prior to August trying to get it passed before people read the bill. Obama is not stupid. He knows what he wants to do. Do you?

The bottom line: Obama and Congress pushed to spend money that basically only favored the rich and powerful. Then they pushed to create a mechanism that would increase the government's revenue through the Climate bill. Following that Obama and Congress chose to completely modify the medical industry transferring power away from the free market and giving it to the very politicians that caused this whole economic mess. All three of these bills have an enormous amount of earmarks attached to them. Where's the earmark reform Obama promised us? Did you know that ACORN would benefit handsomely on all three bills due to the earmarks? I wonder why? Could it be that ACORN and the SEIU are nothing more than street troops for the Obama cause? So, who are the thugs now?

Obama and the Democratic Congress are all about the transfer of wealth and power back to the government. A government that can't manage ANYTHING they produce and are responsible for like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, NAFTA, Immigration, and so on. Go figure why so many Americans from all walks of life and party affiliation are voicing their concerns. The government is resisting hard and will continue to because it is part of the "master plan" that the American citizens haven't identified with yet. But it's coming. A true revolution will be in our future and the start will be in next year's Senate race.

Those crying about insuring the uninsured are already paying for them.

That's where the reform should start. No insurance, no service. Or force this plan on those allready recieving Medicare/medicaid. The problem is this should be an individual choice, not a mandated one. And seriously, All members of Government should be in the same plans as ordinary folks. They allready get multiple, unwarranted perks. How dare they try and jam home a system that they are exempt from participating in and then calling any American who opposes it, "unAmerican". Sorry Ms. Pelosi, this is not a country full of Liberal idiots who swoon on your every word. That small Gay, Hispanic, Black caucus you Liberals have formed will not overtake America's true COnservative roots, despite your obvious anti-traditional views and lifestyles. 2010, Dems(Libs), get voted out. 2012, either your Socialist messiah gets voted out or there's always hope the Mayans & Chinese prophecies are right. I think i would prefer death to 4 more years of Liberal elitism. Moral bancruptcy followed by economic bancruptcy, the Liberal way.

Yea, Sherri, clue in before you decide to attack.

Illegal aliens might not be covered, but they will still be walking into the emergency rooms treating them like their clinics, and getting treament, which they don't pay for either.  So they're not paying in ..... and they're not paying their bills, we are.

Obama actually, just yesterday, said he wasn't going to tackle immigration this year after all.  Why?  So he can RAM down an amnesty bill, get all 12 million illegals in this country made citizens, and they'll all vote for him.

Nevermind ACORN, who is being investigated for supplying false voter registration cards to illegal aliens in the last election as well as many other things..

The immediate effect and motivation is usually not the ONLY effect and motivation, especially with Obama.

The American Public have spoken. Mr. Obama, scrap the healthcare plan. It isn't going to work and it isn't going to fly here. Go back to the White House and start over. And please don't come out until it's right.

I can't cruise tv channels without running into you, Nancy (puke), or McCaskill (double puke)! Could I get a doctor, please?

On the question of coverage for illegal aliens, from FactCheck.org:

"Rep. King of Iowa issued an eye-catching press release, headlined: “CBO: 5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare.” King claimed that this is what the Congressional Budget Office’s recent analysis of House health care legislation said. But it didn’t. His press release also said that the 5.6 million would be covered “in large part because the liberal proposal does not include any requirements to verify the citizenship or immigration status of those receiving taxpayer-funded health benefits.” That’s not true, either.

H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

The preceding section reiterates this, stating that “the term ‘affordable credit eligible individual’ means … an individual who is lawfully present in a State in the United States.” In other words, no federal subsidies for you if you’re in the country illegally. Besides, illegal immigrants aren’t eligible for federal health programs under current law. (Tax dollars do, however, cover emergency care.)

So, where does King get his 5.6 million figure? His press release says that the CBO projected that the uninsured would include 14.1 million illegal immigrants in 2019. The CBO’s analysis of the House health care bill estimates that in 2019, 17 million would remain uninsured “nearly half of whom would be unauthorized immigrants.” This is where math comes in: Taking the 14.1 million illegal immigrants in 2019 and subtracting half of 17 million (8.5 million) gets you … 5.6 million illegal immigrants that have suddenly gained coverage, right? Actually, no. About half of illegal immigrants in the U.S. have health care coverage now.

As the CBO itself said in a December 2008 report: “studies indicate that of the roughly 12 million unauthorized immigrants in this country [now], about half have health insurance and half are uninsured.” Those studies were done by the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center. Its oft-cited work on the numbers of unauthorized immigrants said that illegal immigrants were more likely to be uninsured principally because “the occupations and industries in which the unauthorized work tend to be those where employers do not provide insurance.” The center’s report said 59 percent of adults and 53 percent of children with illegal status are uninsured."

Right now illegal aliens can get care at E.R.'s, and the proposed plan does nothing to change that. Getting care at E.R.'s is not the same thing as being covered by health insurance or getting federal dollars towards that coverage. If illegal aliens are covered by health insurance that they pay for, then it isn't coming out of anyone's pocket but their own. But payment of their premiums will NOT be subsidized by the federal government.

Where's the problem?

On the question of illegal aliens voting, they cannot. If they become legal, they can.

As to which way their vote is likely to go...just about every registered voter is going to vote their own personal pocketbook, and I think we all know which party does more for those with the emptiest pocketbooks.

Perhaps that's something Republicans should have thought about before now in the development of their policies.

sherri:

On the question of illegal aliens voting, they cannot. If they become legal, they can.

They do vote. I know this as fact. I've seen seven of my students holding voter registration cards. So, don't tell me they don't vote. YOU ARE WRONG!

Dude:

I am not wrong. They cannot legally vote. Citizenship must be proved in order to meet voting requirements.

If you are talking about voter fraud, then that's another matter. And also a topic for another article, not this one.

Sherri:

I'm not arguing the fact that only citizens are to have the right to vote. I'm just saying illegals do vote and yes, they do it illegally. This is why Obama will offer them amnesty so he can gain their votes and give them medical insurance.

Republicans support, vote for, and cheer criminals.

Their leadership represents the base.

http://www.republicanoffenders.com/

The long list of maligned, misunderstood, unfairly accused, politically targeted, completely innocent... Compassionate Conservative Family Values Republican Heroes.

Dude -

If your fear is that the voting process is so out of control and rife with fraud that illegal votes will be cast in numbers sufficientl so as to change the outcome of an election, then maybe you need to be advocating for reform of the voting laws instead of trying to prevent the President (or any other politician) from going after people's votes.

I don't know whether Obama has the exact agenda you suggest, but I think it's safe to say that every politician will always go after votes. It's what keeps them alive.

NH Fishercat:

Your "quote" from Page 50 Section 152 is not a quote.

Here is what that section says, word for word:

"Sec. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) IN GENERAL.--Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services."

Please note that there is no mention anywhere of the issue of citizenship.

Apparently you (and a lot of other people on this site) made the mistake of letting someone else tell you what the bill says instead of looking it up for yourself.

BTW, elsewhere the bill prohibits using any federal funds as credits towards non-citizens.

As to non-citizens being able to get emergency care in hospitals, yes they can, and this bill would do nothing to change that. As to non-citizens being able to secure health insurance coverage, of course they can. As long as they pay their own premiums.

sherri:

NO fear hear. Just stating the truth. As far as voter fraud and/or registration fraud goes, ACORN is a major blame for that of which your taxes are supporting.

Where did you get your numbers on those opposed to the bill?

"Fifty percent of those questioned in CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Wednesday morning say they support the president's plans, with 45 percent opposed." Date: August 6,2009. If you throw out the "right wing" sites for polling and the "left wing" sites, you will find plenty of polls that all reflect the same types of numbers.

Your statement that "the only people that support it are the lazy, shiftless and uneducated" simply is not true, and is a generalization that has no basis.

Jazz, you did read the whole poll didn't you? Doesn't look good for President Obama's plans.

"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

-Barack Obama

"I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration."

-Hillary Clinton

"Your statement that "the only people that support it are the lazy, shiftless and uneducated" simply is not true, and is a generalization that has no basis."

yep, just like the statement that everyone opposed to it are republicans

Great post Logical.  Maybe the mainstream press (state run media) should play these two quotes.  They certainly fit the present debate.

I don't believe that every single republican is against the bill, nor do I believe every single democrat supports it. That, too, is a sweeping generalization. As for the CNN poll, I did read the entire article. What struck me is that seven out of ten Americans feel that some type of structural reform is needed, although exactly how to accomplish that wasn't discussed. Just my opinion, but there is a lot of mis-information out there and a lot of fear about changes. I honestly wish the people would quit getting all of their information from sound bytes and do a little research. The bill is not all bad, nor is it all good. Read it for yourself and form your own viewpoints.

Jazz,

Would you agree there is no hurry to get this passed? If we are "ALL" going to be affected. Then what is the rush? The rush is to get it passed before he looses the Dem in the house and the senate.

Interesting question, Ignat. I would like for an intelligent debate to take place among the differing opinions and I would also like to read the entire bill (after Senate/Congressional changes) first. On the other hand, we've been talking about reform ever since I can remember and all I can see from these "talks" have been higher insurance premiums, an increase in bankruptcy filings for medically related expenses, and an outrageous increase in all spectrums of the healthcare industry. Just my opinon, but I would like to see a healthcare reform bill of some sort passed within the next year. That should give ample time for discussion, debate and information to the public. I just don't think we can wait around for another decade to do something about healthcare in our country.

There are three (relatively) easy steps they could take, and save billions.

1. Clean up the existing programs.

2. Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines.

3. Tort reform.

THEN, and only then, after they've saved a few hundred billion NOW, not 10 years from now, should they consider starting to spend some of what they've saved.

Write your congressmembers, people. www.senate.gov www.house.gov

Emails are great, but physical letters, to be dumped on their doors when they come back in September, are even better.

Maybe I'm a little nuts, but I have seven prepared, I'll be mailing one every other day until they run out.

AND, BTW. Write Chuck Schumer, even if you're not from New York (which unfortunately I'm embarrassed to say I am). HE is spearheading the push to pass this legislation by reconciliation.

If you're not aware of what that means, in a nutshell it enables congress to jam through legislation without fear of filibuster - which they fear because they don't have the full support of the Democratic caucus, otherwise they wouldn't fear it - and with less votes than is normally needed.

Chuck Schumer basically wants to encourage all the other Senators to thumb their noses at what We, The People are telling them and jam this bill through anyway.

http://schumer.senate.gov/new_website/contact.cfm

That link will take you directly to his contact page.

Do it, people, please. We cannot allow them to force reconciliation on something this important. Don't let this New York liberal take over this process.

I would also like to read the entire bill (after Senate/Congressional changes) first.

Jazz. Here is one of the big problems I have. The bill is still in committee and hasn't even been put in a final form, yet Obama wanted this passed before the summer recess even though it wasn't finished.

Why is the Senate voting on a bill that isn't even finalized? I don't think I can remember that happening before. It seems almost unprecedented to vote a bill through that isn't finished and under those circumstances it's no wonder the American people are reacting the way they are. They're feeling manipulated and they're not liking it.

And I agree with them.

Basically it all comes down to the question: If this plan is so great, why does the White House need to so much spend time and money trying to convince at least half this nation they should want this ?

Jazz, I have been reading the Bill.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

Please point out where it specifically outlines lowering healthcare costs or reform?

It is truly about Insurance Reform & Government Expansion. Just look at how many Commissions will be created to handle various details and areas. I am currently on page 729 and there are over 17 new "Governing Bodies".

Everything is the bill is not slanted to John Q Public, it is all slanted towards the Governments ability to change the game anytime they want.

I guess you are unfamiliar with Democracy. In our system, when the majority of the people vote for one party, that is the party that leads.

Majority is not a name. republican, although in the minority, seem always to describe themselves as the majority.

You are not in the majority. You are in the minority. You are a member of the republicans who have degenerated to the point of wild bald faces lies and mob behavior. This is the same behavior that we saw in the campaign. Rather than discuss issues like adults, morons, led by that moron Sarah Palin, were whipped into a frenzy of screaming, foaming at the mouth brutes. Screaming "Kill him" and "He's a Muslim"

This is the republican party. This is how they behave. They are barely containing themselves from going to Town Hall meetings with axe handles and black jacks.

Just as was predicted by Homeland Security we are seeing a rise in Right Wing Violence. This is how these uncivilized lying hypocrites behave. And this is why they need to be kept out of office.

yeah! Thats right if you are not a member of the winning team you have no right to speak out on any issue! The other side sat quietly by and accepted the will of the majority when they were out of power! Now that they have control they will do everything perfectly you don't need to worry, they are always right on target and good. You crazy radicals, go back to school and learn to think , its well known that you cant have a lucid thought if you don't agree with the majority! You rabble rousing thugs, take your sticks and guns and your damn bibles and sit in the swamp and wait for aliens to take you away!

Ah Carlos, I do enjoy good satire !!

Johndevine, your crap doesn't deserve a civil reply, so I will keep my trap shut. And I'm not a Republican, either.

johndevine....I guess you are unfamiliar with our form of government. We are a Republic (rule by law) not a Democracy (majority rule). Regardless of who is in the majority, the current and past administration(s) are breaking constitutional law and overstepping their bounds.

i'm not a republican, i am an independent who voted for obama....so that means i am a majority..... who is against this so called health reform bill. the "winning" party is not suppose to rule it is suppose to lead

And it is not required in this country that the minority follow.

Right, Democrats, who spent the last 8 years blasting Bush no matter what he did?

Not that I was a fan, either, but it was okay when you did it - it's just not okay for us to do it.

Typical left-wing do as I say, not as I do lockstep crap.

PragmaticToAFault wrote;

Right, Democrats, who spent the last 8 years blasting Bush no matter what he did?

Not that I was a fan, either, but it was okay when you did it - it's just not okay for us to do it.

Typical left-wing do as I say, not as I do lockstep crap.

Not quite; a Special Prosecutor is now in the picture on torture and other possible war crimes; notice about the time Blackwater/XE and murder charges surfaced, Dick Cheney suddenly stopped yapping - his daughter too.

The right-wing yappers of today, yap to sabotage and discredit Obama - even if his initiatives will help middle class Americans. Birthers, despite evidence to the contrary keep calling for evidence...bull@!$%#!

United Health Insurance and Lewin Group "researchers" are in bed together. Lewin put out much of the phony numbers about a Health Care Reform bill that isn't even law - United Health Insurance OWNS Lewin Group - it's one of its subsidiary companies.

How about the no-bid contract for a Haliburton subsidiary, KBR and the @!$%#ed-up electrical-wired showers they built that has killed (electrocuted) American soldiers? And they were paid a bonus!

Yapping is one thing; sabotaging reforms by a bunch of right-wing sycophants is something else.

If you're going to yap, yap sense.

A. Macarthur

There's all kinds of good sense being posted today, Mac, but you've got to be willing to see it. The electorate is pissed, people are angry, they see us losing jobs at 300~500k per month while we are still letting 145k per month into this country as immigrants. They see a government that has already spent more than Pres. Bush spent in 8 yrs. with damn little to show for it. They see a government trying to rush through a 1,500 page mess called healthcare reform when the people don't want it. Even congress doesn't want it, as they exempted themselves and their union buddies from participation.

To top it off, the left wing queen Pelosi and her court jester, Hoyer, have the nerve to call those who protest this injustice "un-american". It would be funny if it weren't so sad.

Dave, disinformation is coming from both parties.

The health insurance lobbyists lined the pockets of both demos and repubs, and they all have no choice but to destroy it.

That's just the way it works.

Greg, throwing out the baby with the bath water is not the answer.

• Clean up the current system, there is a ton of fraud and waste to be eliminated.
• Force insurance companies to become national entities, so the costs are spread nationwide, instead of profit making state entities.
• Stop the madness of ridiculous lawsuits with tort reform
• create funding for programs to end the shortages of doctors and nurses by subsidizing their education, and make them serve several years in needed areas for the priviledge.
• Lets really reform it, rather than create a new beaureaucratic mess.

Lets really reform it, rather than create a new beaureaucratic mess.

• Let's also not allow the government to create a new healthcare provider start-up company, already plenty of those. Just "reform".

Sarah, you make some very good points in your post. I defend the right to freedom of speech and the right to protest. I am in agreement that the town halls do need to support a forum where everyone has the right to voice his/her opinion. My husband and I recently attended a town meeting hosted by our Republican representative. We sat for almost an hour while a minority of dissenters of the healthcare proposal shouted, screamed and disrupted the entire event. We never got the chance to speak, nor did our representative. The event was halted because the crowd refused to allow an intelligent discussion or question/answer session. Perhaps if the town halls did have a format where ALL can be heard, this type of thing could be avoided. If these types of rules aren't put into place, attending a town hall meeting, in our experience, was totally pointless.

I spent 3 days of my life reading this bill.Its available on the senates web site.Plan on giving up a day or Two just to read this it.Everyone under 65 should read it cause where the ones who are going to be stuck with it.Im not sure are president read it !Because what he says and whats in that bill Are like day and night.He does have a wonderful excuse though.Its not his bill its the senates.As an american citizen you should clear youre schedule and read it.After youre done then go to youre local conressman office or town hall meeting and express an opinion.Please for the sake of the nation!!Quit wasting time posting blogs/comments read it Youll crap youre pants with whats in this bill.Lord please help us!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, that kind of stuff worked out real well for the autoworkers too, didn't it?? If you were paying $1000/month for insurance through an employer you didn't have much of a job or employer.

If this is such a great idea let the union take this health care bill. You won't and don't want to so who do you think you are fooling? The union has no dog in this race so stay out of it. If it is not good enough for you why should it be good enough for us?

yuba2000, you won't get through to these people, they are to full of their own hatred..

Salem1692, it's not hatred, it's exasperation. You liberals/progressives comprise a whopping 21% of the electorate - it should be easy for you to understand that the 79% that do not agree with your political position resent and rebel against legislation that doesn't represent our values/beliefs. That we are being force fed said legislation only stokes the anger and resentment.

There. It's simple.

Yea, Union guy, happy for ya but you guys have thrown in with Obama and he's rewarded you handsomely

By making you exempt from this plan, along with Congress.

You have nothing to loose here and much to gain as he goes around trouncing contract law to the benefit of Unions, of course you'll support him.

You could not possibly be more "transparent" in your motivation.

Maybe that's the transparency Obama promised, that it would be easier to tell who is shills are?

$1045/mo

What kind of insurance did your company provide you? That is about 8 times what my company provided HC costs me (BC/BS PPO/Dental/Presc/Vision, single). I don't blame you for be outraged by those prices, but I suspect your employer didn't shop around very much or provided an elite program.

yuba, lol. So what you're saying is the cost of health insurance magically went down when you brought in a union? LOL! Ok, LOL, answer me this lol. How much did your union dues go up when you joined the union? LOL!!!! I need to find out where you are. I've been working on this process where I can turn lead into gold. It just might work there. LOL. Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today. Here's a quote that is very apropos; "You think healthcare is expensive now. Wait til it free."

If you read the bill you will find one section in this bill that deals with "Retirement Health care expenses" This was put in by the Union's to pay for there unfunded Health care cost on the tax payers dime. All total 10 Billion dollars. Another bailout for the UAW and SEIU? You decide!

I call BS on the union guy. Union dues are crazy high, more companies are going out of business because American unions are too expensive compared to other countries. I am actually doing damage control for a manufacturing client steadily sinking due to labor/union costs. They laid off 55% of non union employees and still cannot make ends meet. Let's face it, when "button pusher" union employees make 20% more than your analysts with masters degrees, you have a problem.

My employer sponsored health insurance is $330 a month for a family of four. Our dental is $2.50 and Vision is 100% employer paid.

My wife's the union member, not me. Her union dues are $37/mo. And she makes $10/hr and earns every bit of it. Her work ethic is second to no one's, as well as her empathy for others who are less fortunate.

And Sven, You might want to lay off the loopy juice a little bit. And what I'm saying is that through collective bargaining, my wife and I have $900 more in our pocket every month and rich corprate investment shareholders get that much less off our backs. Now take a wild guess on who is sponsoring all those misinformation sites and why.

Yuba, pardon me, but stfu.

You have NO dog in this race, you should be ashamed of yourself even coming here touting a plan in which you do not have to participate.

Great for you, you make out like a thief because of the union. The rest of us might prefer freedom, thanks anyway.

9 SEC. 154. CONSTRUCTION REGARDING COLLECTIVE BAR10
GAINING.
11 Nothing in this division shall be construed to alter
12 of supercede any statutory or other obligation to engage
13 in collective bargaining over the terms and conditions of
14 employment related to health care.

From the Healthcare Bill. This is why the Unions support it. It will not affect them in any way.

yuba,

"And Sven, You might want to lay off the loopy juice a little bit. And what I'm saying is that through collective bargaining, my wife and I have $900 more in our pocket every month and rich corprate investment shareholders get that much less off our backs. Now take a wild guess on who is sponsoring all those misinformation sites and why."

You're not that bright, are you? Unions like em like you. Hey yuba! Vote the way I tell ya if you know what's good for ya! You do know the difference between apples and oranges? Ok, so let's compare apples to apples and then see how rotten your wife's apple is and will probably not be on the tree very long.

You said YOUR premium. I'm assuming you were getting benefits through YOUR job and YOUR employer was contributing towards YOUR premium. But, your current employer does not contribute towards the cost of dependents, which is his right. So, we really don't know what YOUR premium is. Now we have Mrs Yuba step in and because she works so very hard she and her bretheran agree that they want the Union to come in. They then sit down with Management and TELL them that they want coverage and also coverage for their dependents. Ok says management. What choice do we have? Either cave to the Union or go out of business. Six months later the tree dies and your beautiful apple falls from the tree right into the unemployment line. But what the hey. You made sure those rich corprate investment shareholders got that much less off your backs. You showed them didn't ya?

You see my friend. Everything has a cost and nothing is free.

You live in Michigan, New York, New Jersey, or Pennsylvania don't ya?

c'mon c'mon sven, can you say it? Who's paying for the misinformation and why? Oh yeah, silly me. It's Obama's fault. It's a big conspiracy!

Prag, Ashamed? No. What's shameful is the spreading of lies and disinformation to politicise the health care issue. If you make over $250,000/yr or are in the insurance industry I can understand completely your aversion to change in the status quo. Likewise if you are a dittohead republican who wants Obama to fail at everything, an extreme racist(skinhead, kkk, neonazi), garden variety racist, militia member, nra, operation rescue, teabagger, birth certificate nut, sessesionist, dillusional conspiricy theorist, or just stupid and with authority issues. Then there are the true fiscal conservetives(you know the ones who pay cash for everything and make their own clothes etc...) who I do share concerns with. But like it or not, and sure it's not easy to admit, but these are the folks you are caught up with in this thing. That creates a huge credibility gap for the majority of us mainstream americans. And you don't seem to mind scaring gullible seniors as a means to an end. I knew a compulsive liar once and I'm sure she even believed her own lies. And how many collect social security, recieve medicare, VA benefits, bank with FDIC insurance but don't want govornment run anything. Most thinking people realize there is no such thing as free healthcare. But affordable healthcare coverage for all americans is possible.

I don't need to be told what to eat drink or how to live my life but most of all I do not need to bury my children in debt this administration has spent enough money already.

I was reading the bill to my spouse Sunday night, and she said. "Stop. you're depressing me".

The government wants power, and this is all about power! Power to control and have access to your bank accounts through the ability to levy electronic transfers of fund without your consent, power to detrermine the type and level of healthcare yoour children, parents, spouses, and Grand Parents will get, and when to turn off the treatments. This is about being able to take all of your personal and private information, and put it into a huge government run database. This IS about euthanasia, and the ability to have government officials decide when you die, not leaving that decision to you family. This IS about providing healthcare to illegal aliens, but not making them pay the tax for it! This IS about raising taxes on the middle class, and making a mess out of the healthcare sysytem we presently have! This IS about controling what doctors earn, and taking the highly educated and talented surgeons and putting them into the same pay bracket with the losers who got their educations from some medical school in a Banana Republic! This is about a Totalitarian Government, making decisions as to when the infirm, and frail wil die! Hitler and Stalin couldn't have thought of a better system. This IS about Congressman and Senators ramrodding something down the throat of Americans, and ignoring their wishes! This IS about ignoring problems that need to be taken care of first, like Immigration and Social Security, before taking on what will become a bureacracy that will become larger than the Pentagon. This IS a problem about spending money that we don't have, on top of a spending spree that should have never taken place because we don't have the mney! This iis about a liar of a President who has no clue about what is good for America, and is pushing Radical Socialism on a population enamored with his so-called "Rock Star Status". Read the bill people, and listen to all the criticism about it! You see hear where Liberals Rant against the likes of Limbaug, Hannity, and Levine, but you don't see any specifics as to what it is that these guys say that is wrong. All Liberals do is spout off and call these political commentators names, but in fact, what they say makes sense! Have you seen commentary on the "Today Show" or "Meet the Press", that points out that the Government will be able to send officials into your home to tell you how to parent and raise your children? Have you seen them point out that the Government will be able to come into your home and TELL you what parts of your lifestyle you will have to stop doing? Have you seen them comment on the fact that all of your bank accounts will be opened up to a government administration at will? Wake up because what Obama and his stooges are proposing will kill this country. Certain aspects of this country's healthcare system may need tweaking, but not like this and not at the cost they're proposing.

We pay for health insurance, aned have had no problem getting medical care. The key word is that "we Pay for our coverage", that means taking responsibility for our own welfare! Not letting the Government decide, and do it for us! Funny how you can go into the ghetto of any American city and see vehicles with custome wheels, tires, chrome, and stereo systems, but these same people suck the public health and welfare system dry. My point is, a majority of the people that fall into Obamas catagory of "uninsured", couold have insurance of they wanted it! They just choose tospend the money on bling and car parts they really don't need! Why should tax paying Americans have to pay for those who are just lazy and unaccountable for their own well being!

Obama and the Dem Stooges like Pelosi, Dodd, Schumer, Kennedy, Franks, and the rest have been lying throught their teeth about this bill! Read the bill, and read some of the legal briefs that have been written by outside experts! It is an effort to create a Totalitarian Government, not an effort to provide healthcare. Under this plan, healthcare cost will go through tthe roof! Think of the Pentagons procurement process where a simple toilet seat costs $400.00! Or a hammer, is $500.00! This is your upcoming healthcare system folks! Read the bill, and based on the governments past performance running any and all other agencies, tell me how they will pull this off without it becoming a mess. It will bankrupt this country!

rpwmjb,

There are already several similar plans around the world including one in the US, Massachusetts. MA's plan has cost overruns way over projections and do not provide the total coverage it was projected to cover. Government cannot run anything efficiently or effectively. Anyone who argues otherwise is either uninformed or a political hack.

God Bless America

I agree with most of what you said. I have to disagree with the part about Michelle Obama answering questions. She was not elected and has no more authority about health care than you or I.

Cindy, I agree with you. As far a Michelle is concerned hopefully she will stay out of it. Praying to god on this, remember she is the women that was not happy to be an American until her husband ran for president.

Go USA,

that's where you are wrong. Look into Michelle Obama and the University of Chicago's hospital system and their policy of turning away unisured and low income patients. What's good for the goose ya know.

Hey bytheway-740683, ask Ms. Pelosi how much $$$ those "evil insurance companies" as she called them thrust her way, and what her plans are regarding that money. We're not all stupid, only those that believe what the politicians, regardless of party affiliation, are telling us. Seems they've made a lemming out of you as well.

You "protestors" are the only lemmings. Keep listening to Palin , the ignorant woodchuck that doesn't even bother to read a newspaper.

Ah Salem, back to name calling - you do realize you lose your credibility when you start hurling the playground taunts, don't you?

Liberals (shakes head)

You keep listening to Obama, you obviously didn't read the proposed plan. Just because we don't agree with this doesn't mean we like Palin, or are an ignorant woodchuck, whatever that means :)

Your arrogance and insults don't win you over anyone, just makes your side look desperate. Maybe that's why you're all on the defensive. If it was such a great idea, I wouldn't think that would the case. I welcome informed discussion, even polite debate, but why must people always insult others that disagree?

bytheway,

you mean the insurance companies that probably paid for your delivery? The insurance companies that covered you and your parents? The drug companies that develop drugs to cure the sick, possibly you and your parents? Those companies?

I think we got a real good idea since Jan.20,2009

Ah Randy, just one of those "brilliant" Americans I was talking about...LOL

bytheway - who's funding the manipulative and untrue crap you're peddling?? George Soros?

Actually a gentleman at Specter's town hall meeting stated while living in Canada his taxes were 60% for his 'free' healthcare. Health is a personal responsibility, healthcare is a service we seek to maintain our health status. We pay a plumber or an electrician for services they provide. We don't ask the government to pay for our plumbing or electrical services. Why should we expect government to pay for healthcare services? Our government should not be USED to pay for these services. Our government is increasing the deficit at an astronomical rate and CAN NOT even support programs that are currently in effect i.e. Medicare, Medicaid, SSA. A $1.6 trillion PRELIMINARY cost for Healthcare will only increase taxes for every American to support a program that has Proposals in HR3200 to subsidize union members and retirees and community organizations, provide coverage for non-taxpaying illegal aliens(non-citizens). Taxes WILL go UP,UP,UP. AMERICANS WANT REFORM - YES! Insurance regulation, tort reform, portability, pre-existing conditions, not a total make over of a healthcare system that is working but needs some regulation (ten insurance commandments, so to speak). People take pride in what they work and earn for themselves as they have a vested interest and personal ownership so they take care of the substance or item. When something is given for free to someone, there is no personal ownership as there was no effort required, so abuse and neglect results devaluating the substance, item, etc.. That is what we have seen in the past with our social programs, intentions were noble but the equation was not fully evaluated. It created abuse and fraud, no ownership, further deprevation of society and one hell of a mess in entitlements. It NEGATED personal responsibilty, and that is what this healthcare proposal will do.

and sinse the unions are their hench men why don't they take the plan too. They don't want it! That should tell you something. If it is not good enough for the administration and it is not good enough for the unions it is not good enough for us.

psp, Since when has being a sore-losing crybaby been the American way. This is a representative democracy and our elected leaders work for us, the majority. And we, the majority want an affordable public OPTION for all americans. If you don't want the crappy public option, pay for a crappy private plan. Don't get mad. Get informed, get organized and vote like the rest of us in the civilized world. And quit your crying, you big baby, and act like an adult.

I don't believe a majority want any part of Barry's Health Plans. I believe just the opposite is true.

And you'll see some voting in Nov. of 2010, but you won't like those results, nor again in 2012.

If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous. Dems are going down. BIG TIME ---especailly if the pass this travesty through resolution. They've already disenfranchised 46% of the American people---the true Patriots ------and now they want the legal means to kill them off.

Yuba2ooo... Health reform and Barry and Hillarys health plan are two different things. Barrys health plan does not have Options, well maybe there is one option stay healthy or die.

yuba

They are getting organized, it's the left that's acting like a big baby. Name calling and the rest of the garbage because people are saying no we don't want gov health care, so keep having your little tantrum since it's only going to help the other side.

Yuba...you said "This is a representative democracy and our elected leaders work for us, the majority". WRONG! This is not a representative democracy...it is a "Republic" NOT a "democracy". Big Difference. Rule of Law (republic) vs. Mob/Majority Rule (democracy). You want to educate yourself on the difference in action look up the fall of the Roman empire. They were a republic but the people grew lazy, the lawmakers changed the system slightly over years, became a democracy, and finally during a time of national crisis became a dictatorship (Ceasar). Democracy eventually leads to an Oligarchy. Our present course of action mirriors the Romans. If we continue, our great Republic will be no more.

Joe, yuba was just regurgitating what he heard someone else that supports his position say. Give him some slack. It's his belief that since his man won that his man should be able to run roughshod over the Costitution, Bill of Rights, and whatever else gets in his way. It's the winner take all mentality. Thankfully our Founding Fathers were a lot smarter than the choads in congress or posting on this vine. Our Constitutional Scholar Community Organizing President thinks so highly of himself that he probably goes to bed with visions of his face on Mt Rushmore right beside Washington and Jefferson. His ego had no limits.

yea... o.k. Joe, Kinda like we spent a trillion dollars liberally deploying our troops overseas so we could spred "republic" to the Republic of Iraq?

sven, Everything will be ok. The govornment is not out to get you. There are no black helicoptors. Don't believe everything you read on the internets. Obama is the anti-christ and the world is going to end in 2012 so it doesn't matter anyway. It's true. I read it on the internets.

i agree what we need to do is say forget the cost its our health we are talking about and LETS GET IT DONE if they want to do something to pay for it bring home the troops cut the crap about stability in the region and lets get AMERICA to work on BENEFITTING AMERICANS

Yet another successful way to crash the economy as if the democrats need more ways to destroy this nation. Your neighbor won't be voting for Obama next time or any democrats. Sometimes an education comes at a high price for this country but people are waking up.

This administration does not care as long as they can print more money. The defenders of this bill do not care about this country they are selfish and rude they do not care about the future generations who can not afford this insanity. They are knowingly crashing the economy and think nothing of it. People blindley voted them into office are today opening their eyes. They don't like what they are seeing.

I ask a 12 year old boy yesterday do you want the government to spend 90.000 of your money on health care and you will owe that money? He said no! What do you think the future generations will think when we leave them an impossible bill to pay?

He ask me can I stop them?

For those of you who defend this spendbama bill you should be ashamed of yourselves for your selfishness and the burden you are placeing on shoulders that cant even hold themselves up and you think they should be piggy backing YOU the important one.

Nice look on what we really need, but remember the president told all his voters that they would have free health care in 3 years. I have a brother in law who has great health care cheaper than mine(he is in a union) and believes that he deserves free health care. By the way I do believe in some reform that allows some people who get turned down to purchase some form of coverage. My senator from Missouri(Claire) said the drug companies were making too much,but if they don't make money than they have no incentive to make better drugs. By the way Claire's husband has made millions off taxpayers because he runs nursing homes.(what a rip off) I don't think she has a right to fire up on the medical people. I do agree some companies need someone watching them.

You are however, a NeoCon, which is to say a moron.

Nearly every predominately white country in the world has insurance for it's people except America.

Something is wrong with the minds of Americans who can condone and justify spending a Trillion Dollars on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but are unwilling to spend a Trillion Dollars on the lives and health of their own country men.

I think Jesse Jackson said it a long time ago that this country has money for war but none for the poor.

Quoting Jesse Jackson for ANY reason reduces anything you post to total insignificance.

Speaking of total insignificance, I see you are still posting, johndevine.....

We already have free health insurance. It's called Medicaid and it doesn't work and is virtually bankrupt. We need to straighten out the messes we have now before creating new ones.

RENARD----How much more are we supposed to spend on the "poor"? If you would check your facts just a little bit you would find that we have spent more money on the "poor" in this country than we have on ALL the wars in our history, by multiple factors!

Welfare, food stamps, housing subsidies, energy bills, child care, and we already pay for health care. All of this for the "poor" of the country.

What you have is the Democratic Party subsidizing poverty. Paying people to actually stay poor instead of telling them, you want a check, work, you want housing, work, you want all of this free stuff, then CONTRIBUTE something to society, even if it's just sweeping the dam street in front of your house. Instead, we have this loving, tolerant, "equality" party, attacking anyone that doesn't agree with them as "a mob", "homophobes", "rich white", "fascists", "racists", and every other name they can think of. And all the time, they buy votes from the so called poor to maintain their power, to take from people that have worked their whole lives for what they have to "redistribute" it to those that WON'T work, but instead are "entitled".

I've picked grapes, worked in a wool dye factory, even kept score at bowling alleys to support my family, and I didn't jump and down about not getting an "entitlement" that was "owed" to me. I never took welfare or food stamps although I was eligible.

Even in the military, fighting for freedom for others, that you take for granted, I was eligible for "entitlements" because military pay sucked. But unlike people like you, I didn't feel I was "owed" something just because I was poor.

But you cry about the "poor" because the government isn't GIVING them enough?

RogerM,

Are you totally NUTS? I have insurance through my company but it is crap. I cannot even afford the deductbles let alone any major health problem that may occur. We need a comprehensive healthcare plan that covers everyone and lowers costs.

cm48

I don't know about you, but I need a better healthcare plan that is affordable and everyone pays into. This has gone on too long. At least President Obama is doing something about it. No other President has even tried.

RogerM,

The vast majority of Americans receiving help from their government are working, white Americans. The "welfare queens" are not poor people, they are criminals and they are not representative of the America's poor any more than Berny Madoff is representative of America's wealthy.

If you're not making enough, get another job. I have three, how many do you have? I'm also raising two kids, and the jobs I have allow me to be home with them or them to be at work with me, when they're not at school.

Am I just lucky??? NO.

I looked for these particular jobs, I applied for these particular jobs, over and over until it was my turn to GET these particular jobs.

One of these jobs is waitressing at private parties on weekends. Grunty, dirty work, yep. And I make about $30 bucks an hour doing it.

GET OFF YOUR A$$ if you don't have enough money, and EARN MORE. Or get an education or learn a trade so you can get a better job that pays more money.

Stop looking for me and people like me to get a FOURTH job to pay for your laziness!

Amen, Pragmatic. Most people have their priorities upside down. I believe health care is a priority for me and my family. If it came down to cell phones, satellite/cable and other luxuries or my family having health care, health care would win out. Many feel that we should pay for their health care when they have the capacity to pay for it themselves, but they would have to sacrifice some non necessities in order to pay for it. That's one of the main problems with America today. No personal responsibility and the expectation that something should be free, when everyone ends up paying except for the one receiving the "free" services.

God Bless America

PragmaticToAFault-

Well at least you acknowledge you are flawed.

If you're not making enough, get another job. I have three, how many do you have?

I have two in terms of income makers. Both are working from home at my own pace. However, I also have health problems that mean that maintaining regular nine-to-five is difficult for me. I qualify for disability, but I'm not on it.

I'm also raising two kids, and the jobs I have allow me to be home with them or them to be at work with me, when they're not at school.

Am I just lucky??? NO.

I looked for these particular jobs, I applied for these particular jobs, over and over until it was my turn to GET these particular jobs.

That's awesome. I can't fault your work ethic, your perseverance, or your ability to prioritize what is important to you.

But you might be a little luckier than you think. There aren't a whole lot of jobs like that here. In fact, not really any. The culture won't support it (for whatever reasons.) For example-

One of these jobs is waitressing at private parties on weekends. Grunty, dirty work, yep. And I make about $30 bucks an hour doing it.

No one would be allowed to bring their kids to a waitressing job that I have ever heard of here. They would get fired if they did, or not hired if they asked if they could. Not even at private parties. No way. No how. Not ever.

GET OFF YOUR A$$ if you don't have enough money, and EARN MORE.

There is some validity here. However I have the suspicion that you are exactly the type of person to take a quick look at a situation and judge first, without bothering to ask questions later. Mostly because it is more beneficial for them to do so, and little else. It's just another type of lazyness really.

Or get an education or learn a trade so you can get a better job that pays more money.

Sure. But there are cases where there are extenuating circumstances that make that considerably more difficult for some people than it may be for you. I understand being fed up, but you don't seem terribly tolerant or patient with that.

Stop looking for me and people like me to get a FOURTH job to pay for your laziness!

I'm not. Most people aren't. Even many people that aren't working. I get the impression that you may be a little bit of a quick draw with the 'lazy' word as well.

You are exemplifying part of why I think this health care plan won't work. The constituents of politicians will put on the pressure to withdraw funds from the healthcare system in strategic places so that they don't have to pay for the 'lazy ones', or the 'crooks' or whatever other label is convenient to justify the self righteousness.

Which isn't to say that there aren't lazy people or crooks who take advantage of the system. But the carte-blanche-judge-everybody-that-doesn't-work-as-hard-as-I-do attitude will withhold care from people that have simply had bad luck or bad genetics, who need it most.

If you take compassion out of health care, there will come a time when that will bite you in the butt. Good luck with that.

CM48 you are a moron ever heard of Bill clinton.He tried to pull this same crap with goverment health care.But american people didnt want it he was smart enough to realize it.Where the new messiah will pass it anyway.This is why you need to be careful win voting to maintan checks and balance system .To much republican or democrat is bad for the country .

I for one, hope God helps President Obama on this one.

I notice how they're doing that with the very hot headline "stories" that would for sure get a boat load of nasty comments toward Obama. That's why they won't let us comment on Newsvine.

Just like Obama, they control what can and cannot be asked or commented on.

Obama would probably just tell us "Hey - Take a Pill" anyway.

EXACTLY, SueZQ......

You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT !!!

Truth and Suez- Really now, seed the article to newsvine. Maybe one of the many people who know how to use the various options to link ans seed an article to newsvine could teach you something. It is not a vast conspiracy to censor your views already.

I could show you ......

The point isn't that, it's why do they selectively pick which ones are embedded to Newsvine and which ones aren't. Of course anyone can seed them, but then no one will know they're there, or at least readily find them.

MSN is selectively picking which ones to include, so they can control the mobs :) Good thing they're not like Fox and biased (hee-hee)

Sounds like some pretty intelligent people are onto you, MSNBC...

Better re-think your philosophy for news reporting... before you become TOTALLY non-existant !!!

He shouldn't replace the car, but he should fix the tire, right?

Really then why aren't the unions taking this plan they are promissed they don't have to?

You posts prove absolutely nothing and are just more of the high, shrill rants that libs resort to, when they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

here are some facts for you.

There are two ways to reduce healthcare costs, 1 Reduce the amounts you pay to providers. 2 reduce services. This has been pointed out to Barak Obama numerous times now, and that his plan will not reduce healthcare costs

Every UhC program in every country has some restictions as far as medicines and services, the older you get the more restictive they become.

The 2nd common thing is a shortage of physicians, that is common to every government plan. Many small town in Canada have a phsiciian shortage ther requires them to hold lotteries to determine who gets o see the doctor.

The most telling point aginst this plan? The people that want us to have this -plan don't want it for themselves.

This plan will accomplish two things, it will add 40 to 50 million people to medical costs.

Ifd the president and congress of the US want to lower health care costs, DO YOUR JOB, round up the 10 to 14 million illegal aliens and move them out of this country.

The primary purpose of this bill is to gather votes for Barak Obama and the Democratic Parasitical Party, the same reason that he is not upholding the laws of this country.

Test your programs on the Unions. They don't even want it. You in your foolish mind think this is all the republicans who don't want this over the top spending but it is not and you continue to call us tea baggers that really makes me laugh because the tea parties were organized by democrats as well as republicans.

Yes, it is a great plan. I have waited for many years for a President to tackle this growing problem. The people against Obama's plan probably would jump on it if they ever had to claim a medical bankruptsy.