who - There is no universal coverage one single payer system being discussed.

fine.....you can shine a turd all you want....it's still a turd.

oh, and here we have the next talking point. Obama said in the past that universal coverage is good. Well, you know what- it is. BUT- it is not what is being put on the table NOW.

Please dig up a real reason for not reforming our system.

you want a real reason? then pay attention. The government cannot run anything without going into the red. You liberals keep touting Medicaid as a shining example. Well it's way in the red, the govt. keeps cutting payments to docs and hospitals way down, and now they intend to cut , what, 250billion from it with a healthcare takeover. Are you really that clueless, or do you just enjoy the govt. living your life for you? Whatever happened to fixing the problems that are fixable, and then streamlining it from there?? The govt. has shown no fiscal responsibility for a long time, if ever, and you want them to run our healthcare??

I wonder how Obama or any politican can highlite any portion of a bill that has not even been completed...both parties are claiming a lot and showing nothing...Before any of these politicans vote on anything...the general public has the right to know exactly what it is , not hearsay , but see and read the actual words so we will know just what is what. Too much is getting passed by politicans without their even knowing what they are voting on...that tells me none of them are capable of doing what they were elected to do.

All I know is my wife is severely diabled, and I work two jobs to put food on the table. Job #1 provides the insurance, and I believe that is secure, but still, every month, it's only creative financing that keeps us from being unable to pay bills. Even with insurance, her meds cost out of pocket about $450/mo. I hate to be so ego-centric on this issue, but I can't imagine what would happen if suddenly we had to pay for all of my wife's meds, or even worse, we lost the insurance. And why do I get the feeling that anything Obama and this Administration does as far as health care will only be repealed in the next Administration?

Have any of you actually lived outside the United States? Canadian, European Health care is far more reasonable then American. Why is everyone so pissed off? The President is trying to do something productive. Yes I have lived in several British "Colonies" and they do have superior healthcare. Americans are brainwashed to be screwed.

JH - I would suggest you read up a bit more. There is a whole 1000 pages of one bill out there already. Get up to speed. nothings final for sure, but there is a whole lot of information available besides what Rush and Faux News says.

MCLV - You are out of touch with what the government does for you. They run some programs very well and most of the problems they have are also problems the private sector has as well sometimes. Nothing humans do or touch is ever perfect.

JoeB- A public option ins NOT socialism. Repeat this several times a day........Obama is a Democrat.

It can't be a socialist program unless all citizens are mandated to have coverage paid for by the people through taxes. I don't see where this is the case, I see where the GOP is trying to make that the case.

Comparing all the bills none of them take private insurance away. All the bills seem to cover the major point of health care reform. No denial of coverage for pre existing conditions. No denial of meds. A cap on medical expenses if you make under a certain amount. All citizens required to purchase health coverage. If you make more than 350K then you will be taxed. How is any of that socialist? The only socialist bit about it is that the coverage cares for the poor and the most needy. Otherwise all citizens are still required to purchase coverage, the only thing the government seems to be proposing is that insurance will be affordable to those that need it most.

MDDREW - didn't take long to throw the race card out there.

The problem I have is that President Obama wanted this bill passed before Washington went on August break. Why the hurry?? No one had even read the bill and they all admitted that they were not going to read the bill. This upset alot of people. So far the Presdient has said one thing and done another. It is proven in Washington that bills get passed and no knows what is in them. The problem now is that Washington can not be trusted.

the old tried and true dem response to someone who doesn't agree with them - "you must be a racist". well, the fact is you are an idiot. just bc i don't agree with your inane policies and how you are stealing my money i work hard for, i am a racist? you are the reason i hope this guy fails. maybe then you will go out and do something for yourself instead of waiting for the gov't to change your diaper. i'll be thankful towards chairman o when he walks out of 1600 pennsylvania ave in 2012. hopefully we still have a country by then.

Have any of you actually lived outside the United States? Canadian, European Health care is far more reasonable then American. Why is everyone so pissed off? The President is trying to do something productive. Yes I have lived in several British "Colonies" and they do have superior healthcare. Americans are brainwashed to be screwed

right...um, you see...those counties suck. they lead the world in nothing. america is a 'take care of yourself' kind of place, that's why we're great. that's why we innovate and everyone else wants to be us. take care of yourself, don't rely on me to do it.

80% of people are NOT satisfied with their health care. Wherever you got that statistic (I assume from the top of your head), it's wrong.

A recent poll showed that 74% of Americans supported a reform of the heath care system. I did not make that up. That's not to say they necessarily support the Democrats' health care plan, but they want change.

Once the Republicans stop trying to scare the **** out of people, Americans are going to realize that this is in their own best interests, despite what Rush and Bill-O have to say about it.

Whose polls are you quoting?

"Where we disagree, let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that don't bear any resemblance to anything that's actually being proposed," Obama said

And the pot calls the kettle black...

Happyblue...No, he is not mandating it now. He's just going to hopefully pahse it in "over the next decade or 15 yrs"...his own words. Furthermore, almost every economist, at least not those in bed with the administration, has stated that there is no way to pay for this by "taxing the wealthy." Make no mistake, your taxes will go up regardless of who you are with most of his plans...he will just no do it directly. No, Obama will tax the business, energy co's, oil, etc., and those costs will be past on to you. That way, he can always just blame it on the "greedy businesses."

There is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees health care. The government needs to stop mandating so much to the insurance companies so that costs can come down. Why can't I pick and choose the options and amount of coverage I want to have covered by my health insurance? I can do that with my homeowners, auto, etc..

Obama has said it for quite a while, he wants a single payer system. Most of the bills have provisions to stop any new companies from entering the insurance field. How can private business exist against govt subsidized business?

Before taking his seat in the Senate, Obama complained that Bush was rushing through legislation without anyone reading it. Sound familiar??? Why the rush on something so critical as this??

Rahm Emanuel has made his thoughts known very clearly about having the unproductive members of society not to have the same type of care.

All of the proposals so far are open ended about the finer details. Would you buy anything without knowing what the terms are? We do need reform but at the cost of our liberty?

Washington needs to slow down and have a more thoughtful debate about this issue.

I feel like he is missing the point. Give me details of how you want to change it. Give me an idea of the direction, the cost, and the sacrifices individuals regardless of wealth will have to make. Have congressmen buy into it. Stop telling us what is wrong with what we have; we get it. Tell us how your changes are not going to make it worse.

If there was a boogeyman created, it was at the hands of his own administration.

The rest of the world feeds off the United States of America. I would prefer it stay that way.

" President Barack Obama went on the offensive in support of his health care plan, urging the country not to buy into those who seek to "scare and mislead the American people."........... This guy is so far out of touch it becomes illogical. When does expressing ones dissatisfaction and concern for the direction our nations is taking on important issues becomes a "scare tactic". This is NOT the presidential change most citizens expected!!!!

Notice Obama addresses the minor positive things that resonate with the polls. He has yet to address the concerns being raised by mainstream America.

He is a used car salesman telling you about the new tires they put on the car, the stereo radio, or pretty color. Yet you look under the car and there is oil dripping on the ground. When asked the salesman replies that front seats are really comfortable.

Address the concerns Mr. President.

• Address the COB stating the legislation can not cover the costs.
• Address the concern that the government can't even run its existing programs effectively, how will it run this legislation?
• Address the concern that every socialized program in the world rations care to manage costs.
• Address the concern that he government will eventually force out public care options.

Maybe I'm being Un-American but I haven't heard a direct answer from Obama nor the Congressional Leadership on these concerns. They have excellent avoidance skills.

Let's face reality. A non-Jew, non-Influential Catholic (non-Irish, non-Italian), non-Black, non-Episcopalian, WHITE MALE will get the shaft. And, be shafted more so IF this white male is under 5' 8". This is reality. If this WHITE MALE is divorced...

Some are free. Some are not.

Well, only God...

I have a great job. I have great health care because I am qualified to have my great job. I work 55 hours per week, have 3 children, and go to college full-time to get my B.A. in Management so that I can get an even better job with even better benefits.

Now answer me this, why should people who have not worked hard to excel in life and get good benefits, get them for free?

I hope this healthcare program covers the new epidemic in America,

HANDOUT ITIS!!!

It is issues that should drive this argument over the last 30 years we have obviously gotten it wrong. Our 5 of GDP has gone from 4-5% to 16-18% and is unsupportable our life expectancy has fallen from 11th to I believe 42nd we have dropped from top 3 to at best 19th at worst 41st in healthcare depending on the criteria. Correspondingly the rest of the world is living longer and receiving better and much less expensive healthcare the EU average for healthcare is 7.5% of GDP and service is better and it does not mean one cannot purchase private insurance. The very idea that we should be concerned with insurance industry profit margins is idiotic. If we cannot realize our system is broken how can we agree to fix it at the current rate of increase by 2015 25% of GDP will go to healthcare and another 4-7% of GDP to defense we will go bankrupt this is a national disatster more deadly than al the AlQuedas in the world more Americans will die unnecessarily from poor or nonexistent healthcare than from all US military engagements in 30 years.

JKHayes

"Stop the lying about the bill" is what the title should say. Where is the president's plan, because he sure hasn't read the current plan. YES you do give up your own private plan yes there is a plan to stop treatment after the age of 50. The presidents plan is just tell your aged parents take a pain pill. A growing majority of Americans are AGAINST government take over of health care. LISTEN to us Mr President. That's what you are paid to do. This national health care plan is going down in flames faster than I thought. The circus, played out this morning, in "his" town hall meeting, with nothing but special guests was a joke. the 12 yr old asking the president why are there so many signs outside!!!!!!!!!! Omg, the Democrats are pulling out all the plugs to try and get this thing jammed down our throats. When members of Congress and the President have a private plan paid for by us, the tax payers, and they sure as heck are not going to join this proposed piece of crap. Yes Mr president we are MAD out here. We are tired of the wasteful spending, and the trillion dollars of debt you are building.

Paul - nice post

BTCO - Barney Frank has made it very clear that this is their first step to achieving single payer socialized medicine.

Well here's a video that shows some "Mis-information" right from Obama and Franks....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbXrSK_VfME

And some actual non partisan info right from the CBO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rrbQn6j0nM

Where's the "savings" Obama is talking about??? He should look in the mirror before he goes and talks about mis-information...

All I see on here is a bunch of whiners. How about coming up with some ideas, instead of all the childish name calling. The medical system is BROKE and it needs to be fixed. Where are the alternative ideas on here? The for profit health industry pushed a non-profit insurance company (BCBS) out a few years ago and now they're fighting this, because like BCBS, if the government can come up with something everyone can afford, they'd be out of business. Instead of fear mongering on here, come up with something intelligent to say.

It should be a God given right for everyone to have health insurance. This isn't about money, it's about peoples lives.

Now I'll wait for the name calling.

Listen folks we all need to remember one very important point. Democrat politicians never so anything for the good of the people. They always do things for the good of the party.

So there is a question we need to consider. After seeing that the people are going heavly against this and that if they pass it they will most surely loose control of things in Washington, why in the world would they keep pushing this dead maggot of a bill?

his roof, got a hole in it and he might drown..or is it, he's's just OUT OF TOUCH???...he definitely a Political maverick trying to shake our tree..he played a good hand at dealing with people's 2nd most important investment..a automobile, he makes a good new/ used car salesman..however, for as President...based on his promises and delivery..we'll I'm very leery..WhoMe, is very concise with his/her thinking..BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID !!!...

OBama's complaining about "Mis-Information" on Health Care is the direct result of OBama not presenting any concrete information on his own proposal. He expects people to support his Health Care Reform with knowing what is contained in the package. OBama - IT's all about the details ! ! ! What's in your plan (The details) and how much will it cost and how are you going to pay for it (who's paying the bill) ! ! We will not accept a program just because you want taxpayers to support you. You won't get any support with your glorious substance-free speeches that promise to meet the medical needs of every American (to a large extent-we do that now).

Here's a question for all you liberials, where in the bill does it talk about tourt reform? that's the biggest problem in health care.

If we are supposed to believe and trust the Poser of the United States, then nothing is being misrepresented. We are just listeneing to his own stated goals, policies, ideology, and statements. What we have heard from him is horrifying!! Maybe he should check the transcripts and tapes of his own statements so that he can actually lie better.

Are you Obamacare supporters just that stupid to believe this racist's words! The reason he can say that all the scary things you have heard aren't true is because they have only outlined goals of HR3200. Why do think people are having a hard time reading it? These goals that are being set by left-wing nut cases have no details. They intend to pass this and then set up all the details. I can not for the life of me understand how anybody could support a socialist idea. Only the weak with no guts could want such a thing in this country period. It is a lie when he says that there will be no one pay system, it is a lie to say there will be no price put on your life. (just look at the cases in states where this is in effect.

If you what to improve health care then lets do it at the state level. States already set guidelines for insurance companies. let the STATES not the fed's pass laws for everyone to have a health care policy, this will bring the cost down one everyone involved. I don't have the answer to a utopia coverage but I know that what ever the fed's can do for you, you can do for yourself much cheaper.

I currently have health insurance. However, I do not object to looking into an alternative nationwide plan. When a dosage of Bayer aspirin (2) in a hospital costs

$40.00 it's time for an overhaul.

So it's not right if people show up at these goofy town hall meetings and oppose Mr. Obama's so-called plans to reform health care...which have slowly morphed into so-called plans to reform health "insurance".

But it's fine for the president's minions to cherry pick and seat a roomful of his supporters....who couldn't even come up with a single "skeptical" question for the president, despite his request. Not one.

It's just one big campaign trip for this guy, starting from the day he beagn running for the job. Every event is the same. There still is no plan. He is as boring as all get out.

Since the administration thinks so highly of former president Clinton...why not stick to the mantra that got Bubba the job..."It's The Economy, Stupid". Show us that you know how to fix that, Mr. President, before you can lay claim to being able to do more.

And if that's not good enough, quit your job and go to work as a host on one of those stupid "reality" competitions on television...which seem to be a perfect match for your abilities.

btco, i still have not been given an example of what the govt. runs well without it going into the red. Yes, healthcare needs to be reformed, but asking the govt. to take it over is like asking someone to weed a garden with a backhoe.

btco - obviously you didn't read the part on pages 16 & 17 which actually says everyone will have to go on a low grade HMO and lose their current coverage.......one payer system!

Well, my answer to Obama's "stop the lying" is "When you stopping lying to the taxpayers!"

If it's so darned wonderful then why aren't the politicians going to be required to give up theirs and use this too? Answer: Because they know how lousey this is! Until they give up theirs and their separate retirement fund, don't expect the voters to stand for being cheated.

AARP tried to insist that their members back this plan at their Town Hall meeting and they now have a huge bunch of Seniors asking for refunds of their memberships. It looks like 60plus.org is in for a real boost in memberships! The US Chamber of Commerce is against it too.

I really hope Barney is right. Single-payer, socialized medicine, that mainstay of great health policy that is in place in the truly healthy nations of the world would do the US a lot of good. Why is America 38th in world health? Because of their top-notch healthcare system. Dream on! The American healthcare system is designed for the wealthy. There is no provision for unemployment, (COBRA is a joke! it costs more than you are making). The sickest patients do not qualify for private health insurance (they might actually use it), pre-existing conditions don't get covered (because you should have taken care of that before you applied), out-of-pocket limits are ridiculous (if you see your doctor regularly and preventively, your insurer may never have to pay), co-pays are in some cases $20-30 (which still makes mom have to choose between the doctor visit and groceries). Then there are the millions out there who have no insurance at all and either walk around our cities infecting others (TB is rampant among immigrant populations ) or they show up in emergency rooms where the cost is shoved off onto insured patients, raising premiums for everyone who is lucky enough (if you want to call it that) to be insured. The American "Healthcare Industry" is just that . A corporate, for-profit entity that has no financial incentive to keep America healthy, it just rakes in premiums and then dumps you when you ask for the product you paid for. Pathetic. The people telling you all about how bad socialized medicine is are the people who profit from the current system and the congressional leaders that they have financed with your healthcare premiums. America . . . wake up. The socialist, single-payer systems of other countries and their healthy citizens are laughing at you. Just sayin'

If any of you are those who called Bush a liar, you need to apologize.

Open minded - you are right in that 74% of Americans want to see reform... however 80% do not want the reform that is being offered.  There is a difference.  I'm all for reform, but this isn't reform... they are not fixing the current system, they are creating a whole new one that most economists agree will disseminate the current system and leave us with only the single-payer option.  And then, our very own President denies what he is being told.  We're also mad that we're being told that we can keep our current insurance, but we'll have to pay taxes for the gov't run insurance.  ... and Obama is the only person saying that he doesn't want the middle class taxed for it.  His own followers are insisting on leaving that option on the table because they know that taxing the 'rich' won't cover it.  We'll also be fined if they don't like the insurance we decide to buy for ourselves... AND this whole thing about keeping our current insurance?  Only if you don't change insurance.  One item that has been put on the table is that if you change insurance, you can only change over to the gov't insurance.

Just stating that a large group wants reform is far from the whole story.

JoeB....

Absolutely correct opinion.

I can say twenty things about you that would be called "mis-representing" or "mis-informing" because neither I, nor anyone else on this site knows anything about you at all.

Mr. Obama can say people are doing the same things about his health care plans because he has not really laid out anything for anyone to see beyond general one-liners and guidelines.

Lordy, how did this guy end up with that job ? I hear there's some bottles of snake oil that need to be peddled at the carnival...get 'er done, Mr. Obama.

CC57, you want some kind of suggestion? Here's mine:Tort reform. The ones who are making money hand over fist from the medical industry are lawyers. Lawyers for the insurance companies, lawyers that flood the airwaves with commercials about if you have been exposed to this toxin or that asbestos, call a lawyer instead of a doctor. Paying for lawsuits or the threat of lawsuits (malpractice insurance) is a big reason why healthcare costs are so high. Implementing tort reform and reining in these ambulance chasers would not fix everything but it is a step in the right direction.

I just finished watching Obama's entire town meeting in New Hampshire. This was the finest staged pep rally I've seen since last year's campaign. Everybody in place with exactly the politically correct mix of races and genders. A few citizens were allowed to toss some really lame softball questions, each of which was followed by 5 to 10 minutes of Obama doing what he does best - spouting those DNC talking points in that very impressive "preacher man" baritone voice. My take on it = presentation excellent; substance zero. But the CNN crew loved it!

It's the senior citizens who have government run Medicare who are happy with their healthcare. And how many times does President Obama have to say IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH PLAN YOU CAN KEEP IT.

This is about driving down costs associated with payouts to insurance companies and about making sure that those who have health insurance will have it when they get sick.

I was watching the townhall on Fox today. About five minutes into it Fox began displaying comments in a sidebar like "when Obama was running for president in New Hampshire he said he was in favor of a universal healthcare system". President Obama later explained the difference between 'universal healthcare', which is providing access to all, and a single-payer system, which is entirely paid for through the government. But Fox viewers didn't get to hear that because Fox stopped covering the townhall about 10 minutes into it and I had to switch to MSNBC.

That's some serious mind control right there. Maybe Fox can televise the whole townhall next time???

Maybe 80% of those who have health care, but 80% of all the people don't have insurance...Why do you think you have the right to stop them from having what that other 80% already have?

80% of those who HAVE health insurance, may be satisfied for the moment. What about the majority of the population who don't have it?

It's easy to be satisfied when you are hardly ever sick and have never been denied. Or if you've never had to pay high $$ because the insurance co. had a clause, allowing them to weasel out of paying for something that turn, broke your savings account.

And no Obama has NEVER said that he wants the government to control everybody's lives. Before you spew that garbage, show the proof to back your claims up.

Frankly the only scare tactic that I needed was downloading this proposal from the ways and means site and reading it.

What really gulls me is this man admitted a couple weeks ago he had not read the proposals. This was the same night on TV the he commented on the Gates arrest, I think it was on NBC. So how can you push ( or be against ) something if you do not know what is in it. How can you say there are fear and scare tactics being used if you have not educated yourself as to what is being proposed to know if it is indeed scary. Does not matter that things in here will slightly change as the process goes a long, one needs to educate theirself before speaking out..if not it only makes one appear as if they have zero integrity. And that goes for both Democrat and Republicans.

The only thing I agree with here is the principle of the issue... health care does need to be addressed. Every legal American ( sorry to be heartless but no illegal needs to use American tax dollar for their health care they can go to their home country ) needs to be able to provide health care at an affordable price to himself and his family..rich or poor this is a must.

Please do not listen to any politician no matter how high the rank, do not listen to any paid for ads, union members, reporters or talk radio personalities do what is right and hard for your families they deserve you to not be lazy and read this proposal for yourself it is the only way to have the real answers.

FYI as much as I have stood on my soapbox here I have and I am actively writing my local elected officials telling them how I feel this should proceed. My all fellow Americans be blessed with health, wealth and love no matter what your party affiliation is.

Northendlocal

The reason you are paying $40 for two aspirin in the hospital, is because someone in the emergency room just had a CT scan and didn't have the insurance to cover it. Just sayin'

and the republican politicaly spin machine drones on and on with lies and misrepresentations....they should be ignored so the adults can have a discussion of real issues

Don't you all just love how the liberals consistently ask us to "give them our alternatives" and call us "the party of no" and we repeat said alternatives over and over, yet they consistently say that we've offered nothing? Here it is again:

1) Tort Reform

2) Loser Pays Program to aide in prevention of frivolous lawsuits

3) Fraud Investigation of Medicare/Medicaid

4) Immigration Reform

5) National Insurance Competition versus State by State

6) Implementation of Free Clinics to ease non emergency visits to our ER's

If we do the things above, malpractice goes down, the practice of defensive medicine goes down, and overall costs go down for the consumer. Good place to start...

Obama today is doing what he does best...LYING through his eye-teeth. He is a Socialist at best and he will do whatever it takes to destroy America. He charms you through your TV and then in a shroud of secrecy signs bills that continue to bankrupt us. He was bought and paid for by George Soros and put in office through the efforts of MoveOn.org

He is a PUPPET with a Socialist goal, and if he succeeds, the payoff will be HUGE. The goal is the devaluation of the USD folks, and if that happens he and Soros will be laughing all the way to the bank. Check it out...it will give you chills. We need to take our country back and we need to do it now.

While I don't agree with the current form of health care reform I also won't stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is okay with our current broken system. As for anyone who disrupts one of these town hall meetings,they should be shown the door. If you can't let both sides of the discussion be presented,you don't need to be there,period.

joe-- i wish the "adults" in our congress WOULD discuss it. Or at the very least, READ IT.

Anyone who disagrees with this administration is a "boogeyman," "UnAmerican," or a "political terrorist."

Wow, if people had said that about them, we'd have a full scale riot on our hands. Or probably just a bunch of boohooing crybabies.

I disagree with virtually all of the administration's domestic agenda,however I don't believe they are evil,just wrong.I believe some of the issues need to be addressed but disagree with how they have done so.If that makes me a "boogeyman" so be it. BTW I believe in hearing out both sides of an arguement before reaching a decision and those who don't let the other side speak are wrong,whether or not their points are valid.

Democrat politicians never so anything for the good of the people. They always do things for the good of the party.

Thats right. The moment we're all on the hook taxwise, thats when Obama will wave in a grillion more illegal aliens and grant them amnesty. Get ready to pay out the butt for the healthcare of anybody that ambles across the Rio Grande.

what a stacked crowd to listen to his bs

Are you awake yet?

That's a start, but, it's not going to fix the issues of the uninsured and also insurance companies not letting you in because of pre-existing medical problems. Insurance premiums need to be reigned in. I agree, TORT reform is a good idea, but, it's not the cure all. While I am one of the people who likes my insurance, I believe that money should not be dictating who gets covered and who doesn't. All the nea sayers on here sound like a bunch of greedy people that can only look at "what's in it for me".

We must look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world. We can't even have a civil conversation at a town hall meeting. I think it's, they don't have a solution or any ideas to contribute so just shout down any ideas. I just wish they could see what they look like. But I guess they can justify anything they do.

MichiganWolf -

OMG! This is the BEST post I've EVER read! Right on!

BO is great at mincing words. People are reading from and asking questions about the bill the house passed... while BO keeps saying "my plan" doesn't say this or that... the problem is that he has no plan so he can say whatever he wants about 'his plan'. His actions aren't exactly lying, but are right at the edge because he tries to give the impression that he's talking about the same 'plan'.

The biggest thing that needs to change about healthcare is tort lawyers need to be slammed down. Put a limit on the total amount they can get from any suit... maybe $500 or so. If the doctor does foul up then the patient would get the money, not the lawyer. Also there should be a cap on the total liability... expenses plus maybe a mil.

Beyond that, all illegals need to be taken off ALL government plans, period. If they came here illegally, they are criminals and certainly don't 'deserve' to get even a reduced price lunch, let alone a free lunch!

And one more thing, any plan that is forced onto the American people MUST be THE plan that every member of the government is on.

Pelosi: Hey Obama, is your health care plan for every body that include your family and my family ? Is it that good ? Will it cover for my weekly face lift ?

Obama: Hmmmm, hell no. I create that health care plan for all the dumd a** Americans but not for our elite families. When we control their health care and everything else, those dumd a** Americans have no choice but voting for us as we want to. They will become our slave and work their a** off to pay taxes for us to spend. So you can even do your face lift everyday and it's still OK. Get it ?

Pelosi: Great plan. I got you.

really, if senior citizens are happy with the atrocities currently being commited against them daily, then let them be!!! They're dying (like all mortals), put the money and effort into the future, our children, education, their healthcare and opportunity.

What this President is completely unwilling to be told is that the vast majority of this Nation wants nothing to do with State Sponsored Health Care. We know it will run all the other companies out eventually. We know that Health care in this Nation is already better than anywhere else in the entire world.... who leaves here to go to Great Britain for a Cancer Operation?... Who goes to Germany for a Transplant.... Fools believe such rhetoric... they all come here!!!

This is a Socialist power grab and all of us with enough "COMMON SENSE" to recognize what has already transpired by the lousy administration recognize what they are doing. Do not let some want to be Pentecostal preacher who stands is as our President giving his Rah Rah... go team go... chant lectures fool you into accepting g his elitist agendas.... He is taking this nation towards being a complete collapse economy wise while apologizing for our existence to all who will listen.

I thank GOD that some people have finally put down the Cool-aid flask and started to see this man for what he is. And what he is does not bode well for a entrepreneurial America where Capitalism is the way of business. Where Freedom of personal wealth without it legislation and control through re-distribution by the elite is not a concern. And where those who feel they have a entitlement to YOUR money are shut down for their Communist beliefs. Read Becks "Common Sense"... it is no "go GOP go" manual... quite the contrary... it is a small look into what is going on in YOUR Country. Do hate on it until you read it... unless you are full of a different fear... the fear the Liberals have run down your throats.

I think this Bozo is finally getting the picture,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Americans DO NOT want the government involved in theur health care!!!!

Keep up the pressure people, keep faxing, e-mailing and calling congress, senate and the White House!!!!! KEEP IT UP!!!!!

I live in Portsmouth and all day long, starting around 7am this morning, I watch out my front door as busloads of people were bussed in from out of town to make this meeting appear cooperative. this was an astounding Hollywood production! Don't believe it America. Folks in New Hampshire have a lot more to say than these complacent "actors" did. I even know devoted folks who worked on the Obama campaign who weren't "invited" to attend this Town Hall meeting. This was a fake Hollywood type production reminiscent of a Michael Moore scheme. I don't suppose he'll tax anyone making over $250K either right? They are pushing group "education/discussions" about euthanasia here in Portsmouth now?! If they are going to do that, then I'm becoming an advocate for a Death Row czar to get rid of those definitively convicted of murder. I'd rather pay taxes for children trying to get a decent education than educate our elders about euthanization!!!

ltp

the old tried and true dem response to someone who doesn't agree with them - "you must be a racist". well, the fact is you are an idiot. just bc i don't agree with your inane policies and how you are stealing my money i work hard for, i am a racist? you are the reason i hope this guy fails. maybe then you will go out and do something for yourself instead of waiting for the gov't to change your diaper. i'll be thankful towards chairman o when he walks out of 1600 pennsylvania ave in 2012. hopefully we still have a country by then.

Have any of you actually lived outside the United States? Canadian, European Health care is far more reasonable then American. Why is everyone so pissed off? The President is trying to do something productive. Yes I have lived in several British "Colonies" and they do have superior healthcare. Americans are brainwashed to be screwed

right...um, you see...those counties suck. they lead the world in nothing. america is a 'take care of yourself' kind of place, that's why we're great. that's why we innovate and everyone else wants to be us. take care of yourself, don't rely on me to do it.

Just wanted to comment on your post. This is one of the best things I've seen posted on here!

Obama lied (again..surprise, surprise) today when he said he was not for a single-payer system. He's on tape (more than once) saying he is an advocate for a single-payer system. Wake up...a single payer system means everyone (at least those of us who pay taxes) pays for everyone's healthcare. The "Government" pays for healthcare with OUR money. Approximately 84% of Americans have health insurance. Stop forcing a plan WE DO NOT WANT down our throats!

my worry is losing my coverage which costs me some but it pays well and i get no hastles . also i read where there is no language in the new plan in the house to restrict paying for abortion. most recent polls show americans are opposed to abortion except in certain circumstances by a majority of 53% to a little over 35% approve of them. tax payer money should not be used to pay for them. sec of health will have the power to mandate providers toprovide the service and this could close a lot of catholic hospitals. which account for about 16-17% of american institutions. will this help provide more care to americans. thisd issue needs to be addressed.

There is nothing "broken" about our health care in the USA. The system may need to be adjusted to cover the 10-15 million who do need the care and can not get it for some reason, but they do not need to lie and say 47 million need health care coverage. About 1/3 of the 47 million are illegally here...send them packing and 1/3 of the current cost disapears. About 1/3 pay out of pocket because they maybe go the doctor 1-2 times a year and can not justify paying all year for the limited services they require.

The people who say Canadian and European health care coverage is better get their figures and information from????? I get my reports from family and friends. Many I know have family and friends in Europe or England.

I have a sister-in-law in Canada who was having chest pains. When they were unable to diagnose the cause of her condition a nurse pulled her aside and said "you have family in the USA right? Go visit them and complain of chest pains, you will get the tests you need to diagnose your problem there."

A woman I know in England had to wait 3 months to get into a surgeon to verify that a hernia needed to be surgically repaired. After she saw the surgeon, she had to wait 6 months to have the surgery to repair her hernia.

If this what we will be looking at with the "fine" health care that is government controled, I join many who say NO THANKS, NOT HERE!

I need three things:

1. The cost of health care in this country is rising at 2 to 3 times the rate of GDP (even in the best of economic times). We need that to be slowed to match average GDP rise or, ideally, match the rate of rise in median wage - which has gone stagnant.

2. Everyone should have access to affordable health care. The fact that millions of Americans have gone bankrupt because of health costs is unforgivable and if left unchecked will lead to a degradation of the standard of living for all of us. Whatever you do in your life, you require customers. With no access to credit, many cannot buy whatever it is you and I sell.

3. Any plan has to be deficit neutral over 10 years. We cannot allow the federal debt to go through the roof because we are unwilling to pay the costs.

Any bill and any plan that meets these three requirements, I will support and I will be happy to pay higher taxes to get. The current system has stopped me from getting raises at work. All new money from my employer is going toward rising health premiums rather than to me. In my opinion, that is a tax anyway. At least with a public plan I will get some benefit from the tax.

New Hampshire must be full of wimps. I'm very disappointed. They should have challenged the ultimate snake oil salesman. Shame on them!

For those who asked: CNN/Gallop polls dated August of 09!!!

The health care insurance system is broken, but Obama's proposed solution is a misrepresentation. Yes, people on the extremes on both sides are blowing things out of proportion. But when Obama says you will be able to keep your plan if you like it is totally disingenuous. The employer who pays for the plan will make the decision on whether to keep the plan, or pay a cheaper penalty to the government to drop the plan.

My plan: spend less money by giving tax credits to people to purchase their own plan, level the playing field for small businesses (co-ops), incentivize preventive health care, tort reform, penalize smokers and alcohol drinkers through higher taxes on their optional bad habits, small (maybe say $200 per year) tax write-off for health club or other athletic activities or gear), and fund comparative effectiveness research but not base gov't policy on it.

I do agree with paying physicians for optional counselling of elderly on end-of-life issues - we are not killing granny; we docs are not paid by the hour like lawyers, and currently are expected to counsel for free (which we either do at our own expense, or neglect to do it due to lack of time).

Damn MichiganWolf. #1.50, Now THAT'S a post!

You should repost that on every newsvine thread!. BRAVO!

From 7am today until this so called Michael Morre Town Hall production began, I waqtched folks from OUT of TOWN get bussed into Portsmouth for a complacent crowd to greet the President. Don't be deluded America! Folks in New Hampshire have a lot more to say than those who were bussed in this morning taking our places. This was such a closed meeting that folks who diligently worked on Obama's campaign were not even invited!

Obama admitted during the campaign (but now blatantly lies about) that he supports a single payer system, i.e. Socialized Medicine; and, his "Government Option" is designed to force private insurers out of the market in order to achieve precisely that goal. As Obama said: "I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process..." Barney Frank then unashamedly admitted that Obama's "Public Option" was simply a Trojan Horse for surreptitiously introducing full blown Socialized Medicine. The American people have astutely spoken loud and clear that Socialized Medicine is anathema; but, Obama's Marxist psyche prohibits him from accepting free market reforms which should begin with shutting down illegal immigration and Tort Reform, both of which Obama unconditionally rejects. Obama's ACORN is busily registering illegals; and, Trial Lawyers are among his principal campaign contributors. But the most insidious part of Obama's plan is the coming bureaucratic denial of life saving procedures for the elderly. As Obama says: "Take an aspirin" and just wait to die. ( Pg 30: SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.AND, PG 430: SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.) The elderly should revolt over Obama's health care proposals. He learned from his wife Michelle that considerable sums of health care funds could be saved by the practice of "patient dumping" which Michelle employed in Chicago. Facts that are precisely why Health Care legislation, that HAD TO BE DONE BY YESTERDAY, does not take effect until 2013, i.e. AFTER the next presidential election when voters will then be blindsided by a pending disaster. And, just remember that Obama and his Congressional colleagues have EXEMPTED themselves from compliance with their own proposed health care debacle. Greg Neubeck

From 7am until this Micael Moore Town Hall production began, I watched from my front door as folks from OUT OF TOWN were bussed in to make it appear that the Preesident was addressing a complacent audience! Even folks who worked diligently on Obama's campaign were not "invited"! Don't be fookd American, we folks in New Hampshire sure have a lot more common sense than to support another utopia laden socialist reform! They've even started with "education/discussion" groups being offered here for euthanasia!!! I'd rather have a Death Row czar to get rid of positively convicted murderers. If I'm going to be taxed up the kazoo, I'd rather have my tax dollars go for our children's education than to educate our seniors about euthanization!!!

COLLEEN- BINGO!!! George Soros, well there's a socialist if ever one!! Ambassador to SYRIA for GOD'S SAKE. What a snake. AND YES. Obama can give much credit to that man for his winning the Presidency. The spin machine of the LEFT and all their media cohorts, will make sure they put enough negative ads out there pointing the finger at those crazy right wingers. NONE OF those in Congress have a clue of whats in this bill. Their STAFF read the bill, not them. CAN YOU IMAGINE??? We elected them, not their staff (flunkies). OR MAYBE their STAFF should be the ones in Congress.

america is a 'take care of yourself' kind of place, that's why we're great. that's why we innovate and everyone else wants to be us.

Just a little something from a Pew poll in 2007.

Some countries whose majority saw us favorably:

Ivory Coast, Kenya, Ghana, Mali, Israel, lots of other African countries, Poland, Japan, Chile, Mexico, Italy, Britain, Canada, India

Some countries whose majority saw us unfavorably:

Sweeden, Czech, Russia, Slovakia, France, Brazil Bolivia, China, Spain, Germany, Indonesia, Malaysia, and basically every middle eastern country surveyed.

The countries who most like our ideas of democracy:

Again lots of African countries and Israel

The countries who mostly feel the opposite:

France, Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, and a few middle eastern states.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=256

So to say "everyone else wants to be us" is a little simplistic at best. We can definitely say Israel and lots of Africa wants to be us and lots of the rest of the world and all of the middle east doesn't.

I find it most informative that no post-industrialized country that has a gov't health care program has ever dismantled that program to model theirs after ours.

Doesn't anybody wonder why?

btco, please don't be disengenuous. The president has said specifically and directly a number of times that getting to a single payer system is his goal, and that it would take several "steps" to get there. This is but the first attempt. Beyond that, we have the CBO, multiple medical associations, and a plethora of other groups all pointing to direct flaws in the logic of such a proposal - ALL at the same time that the vast majority of people indicate that they are satisfied with their care. Add to this that the US has the best survival rates in the world for serious illnesses and condition, and the undeniable fact that the entire world comes here for medical care - not the other way around. The pure fact is that this is a manufactured crisis having nothing to do with real "need", but actually focused on promoting an agenda in complete disregard for the voters.

Idontunderstand1 - I HAVE lived outside the United States extensively. I still travel internationally very frequently. I would not under any circumstances trade my health care for any of those "universal" locations - and they are jealous of what I have at my disposal. Until you can explain how exactly our situation is so dire while we have without question the highest survival rates in the world, and the most advanced capabilities in the world, and how people from around the world flock here for care they cannot get in their own countries - well, until then you should truly reconsider your logic.

Perhaps you all should listen to some intelligent people. Instead of all this hype.

We don't need anther medical system, just need to correct the current Medicaid/Medicare system to be efficient.

http://healthpolicyblog.mayoclinic.org/

Don't keep believing the lie that 40 plus million people are without insurance and are rolling in the gutters and dying ad nauseum. Look what the liars used to make that number. People on both sides are aware and don't want his lousy plan.

I'm not saying for a fact that Obama is a Muslim, but let me share with you some information. The Muslims are the fastest growing population around the world. They are exploding in new births, the only ones getting close to keeping up with them are the Hispanics. Their idea is to take over the world and everyone either believe in their religious beliefs or die...we are the infidels. Abortion for America is further cutting down on the population of Americans. Can you see the future of your grandchildren? The Muslims have already taken over a lot of Europe, and they are infiltrating into the US, especially in our prisons where they are making home grown terrorists, so why not have more abortions here in America? It will further their cause. I cannot believe that Obama sat in a racist, American hating church for 20 years without wanting to be there and engulfing the information being handed to him from Rev. Wright. His relationships with known terrorists and the way in which he "bought the Presidency" with monies on untraceable credit cards, getting the prisoners signed up to vote, and using ACORN who committed voter fraud, plus allowing Black Panthers to intimidate voters. Not to mention the corrupt tax evators he has serving on his different departments. Has anyone asked themselves about this man? The press went to Alaska to dig up everything on Palin, but have they have not done any research into this man's past. Until he was about 10 to 12 years old, he lived in India with a Muslim step-father. There are even stories that he really was not born in Hawaii, but Kenya...is he really an American born citizen? He has spent over $950,000 to attorneys to keep his birth certificate and his college transcripts a secret...but he spews out how transparent he is. Barry Sorto (probably misspelled) has been the name that many are saying he used to travel back and forth and get into college . Where did he come from? Where did he get the money for his ivy league education? How can a community organizer afford a million dollar house? Until approximately 3 to 5 years ago, no one had ever heard of this man, and now he is the most powerful man in Washington. Who is behind him? Who is financing him? What is the underlying agenda? How much was he involved in corrupt Chicago politics? Does he have ties to the Chicago mob? There has been absolutely no one investigating his past. The three leftist news medias read his books and decided that he was "the one" so it could be a historical presidency. There were soooo many other African American people who would have been better qualified to be our president...why this man? These are questions that I ask, and I believe that most Americans should be asking the same. Hope and Change can cost us our very existence.

UMMMM, isn't the Post Office a government run entity? And it's having trouble but the private companies aren't.......NUFF SAID!

Ok, for all you people who are just angry and critical, do any of you have any ideas? Or do you just want to shut down the conversation, period, because that's sure what it sounds like. The FACTS are that more people in this country either DON'T have health insurance or DON'T have adequate health insurance and cannot afford it. That is a fact, something that seems beyond most of you to comprehend.

For the poster who asked why our taxes should pay for health insurance for those who haven't gone to 10 years of college and don't have 2 jobs (gee, I didn't know that was a prerequisite for insurance) the answer is because poor people have kids, and they get sick. Some people are chronically ill and disabled and can never hold a job long enough to get benefits. I'm not talking about losers or slackers, I'm talking about people who want to have a good quality of life, but their illness keeps them from it.

Do you have to experience it before you understand it????

btco: Because this is 'Step One' for Obama. He gets healthcare reform passed and then down the road it becomes single payor. He said that's what he wants and it would take time. He wants to keep this part secret so he can get the bill passed. He's really become quite 'transparent'; we are beginning to see right through him.

BTCO

The major misrepresentation is what the Obama administration does routinely. If Obama truly believes that the single payer health plan is needed (remember it may take 10,15, or 20 years per his speech)as he himself stated, can you tell me if he is lying now, or was he lying then. If he believes in his plan so deeply, then I would like him to establish this plan in IL, run it for 5 years and let us see if it is a prudent decision. I am disappointed that this president has a philosophy that we have to do everything right now to avoid disaster. I see the do it right now attitude a dangerous, and deceptive method of running a country.Obama is sure doing a great job of making his supporters the minority, even with the presses help you are still a minority.

There is no doubt Obama overlearned the lessons of the Clinton administration. Rather than handing down a bill from on high that everyone understands, he let congress concoct this thing on their own. He left himself in the position of having to support bills and amendments that he would prefer be done differently, that much of the electorate hates full-throatedly. Since there are so many bills that are all so incomplete, all kinds of rumors and lies are being perpetrated by the interests who would be better served with no bill at all. So he finds himself combatting the lies and distortions rather than speaking clearly with the American people about the plan he developed.

And President Odumo, if your Healthcare plan is going to be so good....WHY ARE NOT ALL THE POLITICIANS AND THEIR FAMILIES GOING TO BE ON THE SAME PLAN...dah! He will try to weaken our opposiytion to this crazy plan over the next series of meetings and teleprompter readings(smiles) I would be willing to read the entire bill and then make up a written test for the representatives in D.C. to have to pass. Even Odumo would flunk it. I cannot get over the craziness of people passing bills that are this important without due discussion and time to study of it first. My Lord, we all have to read information before we pass a driving test, these jerks just want to shove it down our throats. And remember people, if we allow this to happen....it would cost us BILLIONS TO CHANGE IT BCK AND SO THAT WOULD not HAPPEN. wOULD MICHELLE have her family on this.....smiles here...no way.

I'm happy to see some common sense arguments against Obama's policies. He was elected by one group who voted for him based strictly on his skin color (he could have advocated child rape and still got the black vote), another group who voted for him because they blamed everything on GWB and Obama is the anti GWB, and the liberal media educated folks in our society (dangerously large group here). I guess now he is having to work harder and deliver on his bullspit. Tougher than merely defeating McCain - one of the worst candidates in history. Almost as bad as Dole, Kerry, and Gore.

Odumbo is the only real "bogeyman" here! A charlatan selling his snake oil,chanting, lying, misstating positions, pandering to the crowd, acting with no regard for consequences, and going back on his word regularly. He offers no clarification of points, brings in ACORN and SEIU to argue and intimidate, and he and his minions in Congress insult and abase those that disagree with them. Then like a true "boogeyman", hedisappears into the mist chanting "yes we can" and "change, change, change". And we get called bogeymen! His history in life is almost ghostly in fact and substance, and he hides behind his persona, acting like an elitist, a member of royalty, and a messiah. And we, who transparently tryto bring up valid points, arguments and concerns are bogeymen? I don't think so!!! I have nothing to hid in my life! Can Odumbo make that statement without a cadre of attorneys?

The phony argument that a public choice will undercut private insurance is typical scare tactic. They argue that the government can charge less...if this is the case then their argument for outsource is phony. They can't both be correct.

I'm not a Doctor but I play one on TV..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egcIKZoNGd8

Article should be titled Beware of the “Obama-man” not ‘boogeymen’

Ok, for all you people who are just angry and critical, do any of you have any ideas? Or do you just want to shut down the conversation, period, because that's sure what it sounds like. The FACTS are that more people in this country either DON'T have health insurance or DON'T have adequate health insurance and cannot afford it. That is a fact, something that seems beyond most of you to comprehend.

So what is the solution? Maybe the simple solution is let the number of uninsured grow from 46+ million to 150+ million. Then we'd at least have a majority with a vested interest in getting insurance for all.

My dad, at age 58, has been switched from a health insurance plan to a health savings account that his employer will pay $5000 dollars into this year. Next year they will pay $4000. The year after $3000, right on down to zero. If he has one catastrophic incident (heart attack, etc.) the retirement savings he's worked so hard to save over 30+ years starts evaporating. That's one event. Any complications and he goes into bankruptcy. Guess who pays then.

People want to say a gov't plan leaves all of the healthy to pay for the sick, but you're already paying for them. Every time one of them goes into bankruptcy, you pay for them and their lives are ruined to boot.

open_minded: If 74% of people want a 'reform' of healthcare, that doesn't mean they want it totally taken down and built from the ground-up. "Tweek' it; make a few 'reforms' but don't introduce a 1,000+ page piece of garbage that completely changes healthcare and expect us to accept it. We aren't!

Americans are finally getting a glimpse of who they voted into office. Obama's rhetoric sounded comforting to the good american public, but his ability to get his way all of the time will not work throughout the country like it did in (corrupt) Chicago.

We have to put up with his arrogance for 3 more years, but he will get voted out in '12.

I am a Vacular Surgeon and I agree with President Obama the Health Care and insurance companies are out of control. If we don't fix this soon it is going to be a complete nightmare.

What they are proposing is an option not a mandate so why fight it. The people in our area that are being very vocal against it are those that are either political puppets or those benefiting from the current system.

The opposition is not against the plan but rather Obama. If he does succeed in a reform it would look very bad on the opposing party. We are getting the mailings distorting every aspect on the plan from PAC groups almost on a daily basis.

I cannot believe people would put politics above human lives. For those of you saying anything different is an absolute lie. The plan has not been finalized so everything at this point being discussed is simply an attempt to smear.

If the current system is as good as some are trying to claim why is it so important that this option be defeated? If our current system is better then this one will not survive. It is not mandated it is an option.

Read the post and you will see the terms Democrat, Republican, sides, and free speach. What we are not seeing is what would be better for the people as a whole.

My husband and I attended a town meeting hosted by our local representative. A very vocal minority yelled and screamed for almost an hour before the Representative finally gave up and we went home. I support freedom of speech and think everyone should have the right to dissent. However, our freedom to listen, ask questions and hear answers was totally overwhelmed by a few. I think each person should have the chance to voice his/her opinion, otherwise the town meetings are a waste of everyone's time.

I think, when, a plan is presented without specifics; it should tell every American just how stupid they think the public is.....we vote when we know... we get upset when we don't know so what is your perception of the outrage...... we don't or we know now and be afraid........vote them out; ones who deceive.....

How the hell would Obama know they're misrepresenting it when he admits he hasn't read the thing?

Now this is funny...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XivhwO_zWWg

CC57: No name calling, just some suggestions: Don't cover any illegals; institute tort reform. Try that for starters and then 'tweek' further if need be. There's billions saved right there. We already have Medicare and Medicaid. 'Reform' them to cut out the waste, fraud and abuse. Before enrolling anyone in these two systems, conduct due diligence to ensure they are entitled to the program. That should take care of the poor and the elderly. The rest of us have insurance through our employer, we purchase it or there are those that choose not to have it. Try 'tweeking' our current plan before it's torn down and rebuilt into a piece of garbage that will be too expensive and won't work.

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Goyt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individual finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer.

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange 2 bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services; Example - Translation for illegal aliens.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - Your health care WILL b rationed.

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individual will b automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC 4 part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w/payroll 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

Pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according yo Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay).

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmiss - Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in two Govt plan.

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs ppl!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will br used frequently as patients health deteriorates.

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage.

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs.

Here's the full Health Care bill that currently sits in the House of Representatives in Congress.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

This will not affect the Senators or Representatives at all.

If the plan isn't good enough for the president and every member of government on down, then its not good enough for us period!! On the other hand, the current plan that congress has lavished on themselves is completely unaffordable on a national scale. Either way everyone has to be on the same plan if they pass this BS, including congress and the prez, otherwise every American should vehemently oppose any plan they (congress) aren't willing to be part off themselves.

Roger

"If the current system is as good as some are trying to claim why is it so important that this option be defeated? If our current system is better then this one will not survive. It is not mandated it is an option."

That is a lie. Perhaps you have not read the bill. It clearly states (in current form) if you leave your job or your employer opts out, you are stuck in the Govmt. option. Period. Sounds like a mandate to me... I am not a political puppet, just a concerned American with a right to voice my opinion. Here's another one: STFU. Your post makes it sound as if you are against Obama's plan your are against human life.

Since you are so concerned with human life I would assume you are against my tax dollars going to pay for abortion then, right?

I have never seen so many comments collapsed and monitored on Newsvine before, not like this. And after opening and reading many of them, they're not offensive; their main crime is that they are against this health care package. Since when is having a different opinion "no value" or "inflammatory?" This is even worse than liberals calling everyone who doesn't agree with Obama a racist. Anyone who disagrees in Nazi or un-american!

I find it funny that people are quoting 80% satisfaction rate as being some supremely awesome benchmark statistic. The truth is, 1/5 disappointment rate with service is abysmal compared to entities like GEICO... they claim high 90s satisfaction rate as does many other top tier corporations. After all, we are in a post Six Sigma business climate where anything less than 99% is mediocre.

Anyone that thinks 80% success rate is acceptable with no need for improvement needs a reality check. An 80% grade is a C in many schools and anyone that thinks the "greatest nation" should be contempt with a C is selling themselves short.

Besides, the only reason our current environment even manages to get an 80% approval rate is that the amount of desperately ill people in our society could not possibly be higher than 20% and people tend to think everything is "OK" until disaster strikes.

Read the facts laid out by Chuck Norris:

http://townhall.com/columnists/ChuckNorris/2009/08/11/dirty_secret_no_1_in_obamacare?page=full&comments=true

Highlights:

"Dirty secret No. 1 in Obamacare is about the government's coming into homes and usurping parental rights over child care and development.

It's outlined in sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill (Page 838), under the heading "home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children." The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills.

The bill says that the government agents, "well-trained and competent staff," would "provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains ... modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices," and "skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development."

Are you kidding me?! With whose parental principles and values? Their own? Certain experts'? From what field and theory of childhood development? As if there are one-size-fits-all parenting techniques! Do we really believe they would contextualize and personalize every form of parenting in their education, or would they merely universally indoctrinate with their own?

I read somewhere that our esteemed Commnder in Chief was planning on sending out his minions to all cities and towns to go house to house to explain why we need to be on his plan. I am retired military and I have two perfectly good (at least for now anyway) insurance plans through my work and through Tri-Care. On another post, I said that these people are perfectly welcome to come to my house. They are perfectly welcome for about 10 to 20 seconds before I tell them to get the hell off of my property! I have no need or want of President Obama's bogus health plans that he would try to force down people's throats that do not need it. I too am an Independant that has no use for other party affiliations, as both parties are pale and pathetic shadows of those that helped make this country great, especiallythe current administration! The current issue is not about fixing the health care system. It is about forcing people to accept only what liberal Democrats think is good for everybody. Guess what people, you still got it wrong, as you would take away free choice to satisfy yourselves. I won't stand for that!

Reading through some of the comments above, quite a few people say they work hard and deserve to keep their health care. They dismiss 1/2 of the American people who also work hard yet do not get the opportunity for affordable health care. Dismissing people is not a good thing and is exactly what they accuse the government of doing.

Wayne states that the proposals do not mandate as yet socialist coverage and claims the government will 'phase' it in. Even if this were true, which it is not, I would venture to guess that down the line Wayne and other will happily be taking medicare coverage because they feel it a 'right' as they paid into it, one which is a government program. However, it will be the younger generation who will be paying more for an elderly population with increasing health care costs. Those taking medicare now have not paid enough into the system. Wonder how the young will feel about that if reform does not go through?

One comment brings up Jim Jones. One comment makes it quite clear that he is afraid of the White Male demise in society. Jim brags about 'having it all', one lists Obama as a communist, many list Obama himself as a socialist, one calls him a puppet and a socialist, One states that it is all a secret ploy to give healthcare to illegals crossing the Rio Grande. One post insists that nobody over 50 will get care and another worries about 'free' abortions. Several check in with friends and family living overseas who get the most appalling care and several once again maintain America as a world leader in health care. Then there are those who travel 'extensively' and have all the answers, strange thing is for most people overseas these comments never add up.

If you can't see how ignorant these comments are and how they appear to be orchestrated and controlled by key words then you all truly need help.

Roger...you're a VACULAR Surgeon? Right...I think you might have meant VASCULAR. Who is the real plant? What a dork.

Some how it seems that people are missing the big picture of health care. Its about the big picture, the have and have-nots. Should YOU not get the same care that i get because you can't afford chemo? you should die and i should live. Medicare is a goverment ran health care. It works! Not perfect, but it works. Right now here in Los Angeles-Inglewood, CA. at the forum its a FREE health fair going on, people lined up around the building for basic health care.(BIG PICTURE: they will have thousands of people who have no health care at all, and this is in the 2nd largest city in the greatest country in the world, not some 3rd world country.) Very much like being hungry. This is not a black thing, a white thing, rich thing, poor thing, a REPUBLICAN thing, a DEMOCRAT thing, this is a human thing. No one should die from lack of health care and lack of food. Everyone should want to do the right thing and we know what the right thing is.

It is called a public OPTION, which means the buyer can choose to purchase or not to purchase.

Obama should have invited those picketing outside to come in, and address the crowd with their concerns. Can someone verify if this was done or not? There are rumors that are float both ways that the demonstrators are locked out, and the other was the demonstrators chose not to come inside. Another was that the demonstrators peetered out after coing inside.... Conflicting rumors that have not been substantiated.

"Happy"blue,

So now it's 1/2 of Americans who don't have or can't afford insurance. That's odd and seems as if you made that number up. Could I have your source please? I thought so, it's simply a lie to justify your rantings about people that have raised objections. Who are these "people overseas" that things don't add up for? Could they be some of the same people that come here for tests and procedures? Probably..

I would say with your exaggerations of # of un-insured, you seem to be the one who is ignorant and "controlled" by some ulterior motive for your post..

To POTUS Obama I would say: If you want to stop misrepresentations then stop the double talk. Stop talking around direct questions that are asked you and others and answer them with direct no nonsense answers. If there is a probability or even a possibility of Obamacare replacing private health care by causing them to be forced out of business, then be straight foreword and honest about this. If there is a possibility that health care under Obamacare will be rationed or decisions made by non medical professionals and not the doctor and patient themselves, say so in plain English. Stop answering direct questions with broad and vague answers such as you did on your last attempt to sell Obamacare. When asked directly what sacrifices you expected people to make you very quickly glossed over such things as "end of life care." If you are a person that is terminally ill "end of life care" and coverage can be an important item for you. Obama made another broad and vague statement in answering this question in saying that things that don't make us healthier won't be covered? This could mean anything from no more maintenance medications for diabetes or high blood pressure since they don't make a person healthier and only treat the disease/symptoms, to no payment for plastic surgery. I am sure if you have diabetes or high blood pressure you would like to know straight away if you will be covered. If you are horribly disfigured in an accident you would like to know if Obamacare will or will no cover you.

While I realize that at this point the H.R. 3200 is not in it's final draft and things can and probably will change before it is signed into law,(yes I beleive that regardless of if we want it or not we will be strapped with it) it would be a comfort to know what we are or are not getting for our money. A broad and vague statement like "affordable health care for all" is not good enough for me, Mr. President.

The problem is that Obama is not really telling us the whole truth when he says such things as: "Like your private coverage - you can keep it", etc. The proposed healthcare his cronies tried to "fast track" on us certainly contained wording that suggest that there are certain situations where one would be forced to abandon the private insurance and go on to the public option. It may be true that you can keep your private insurance (for now) - but how about the future? He doesn't tell you that you can ALWAYS keep your private insurance. That is because the private insurance will be driven out of business eventually because they cannot compete with the public plan. Furthermore, the public plan will continue to cost shift to the private sector (as they do now on Medicare and Medicaid) and government can assess penalties, fines, etc. that simply will drive the private plans out of business. Once we yield to Obama having a public option, then it's over. He will do whatever is necessary to run the private insurance out of business. Don't forget that he is on record (audio & video) as stating that his preference is a "single payor" system for healthcare - which is blatant socialism. - If he gets a public option, it will happen so don't listen to his rhetoric - look at his actions instead. Why do you think that he and his liberal congressional democrat leaders tried to "fast track" this crap legislation before end of July? They didn't want you or I to know what this legislation was all about. How can we trust anyone that would attempt to do this, obviously knowing that the core American public would be very opposed to it? "Fool we once, shame on you / fool me twice, shame on me"! Don't believe one word coming out of these guys mouths, or the liberal media, as it relates to healthcare. They're going to say anything to try and convince you that what you read in their crap healthcare legislation bill was not what you thought you were reading. Not only will his healthcare legislation (along with a public option) destroy our traditional healthcare for the future, the cost of completely re-creating healthcare under the auspices of the federal government will be exceedingly expensive monetarily as well as a huge sacrifice in our quality of care - it has to! They are out of their minds if they think this is going to get paid without middle class America taking a beating on taxes. Along with Porkulus (when we start paying for that next year), we are in for some tough times if this gets passed. Then, they will immediately go after Energy and Education as those are two additional huge segments of our economy that they want to socialize. After that, capitalism, privatization and The American Dream will be forever gone - welcome to the biggest socialized government imaginable. "WE THE PEOPLE" ABSOLUTELY CANNOT LET THAT HAPPEN!!

Why is he first post (#1) being "collapsed by the community"? For what reason? Is it because it secured lots of ocnfirming votes and was not in favor of the proposed healthcare legislation?

If it's such a good deal, why the rush Mr. Obama? Did you not promise us that we would have transparency and that future bill's would be reviewed with the utmost scrutiny???

Remember how great NAFTA was going to be.

"As long as they have a good product and the government plan has to sustain itself through premiums and other non-tax revenue, private insurers should be able to compete with the government plan, Obama said."

While I support a single payer system because I feel it is the ultimate solution, I do have to note the disconnect between what Obama SAYS and what he actually DOES.

I think that the "public option" is merely a means to an end, by using tax dollars or government controls to undercut the private insurance companies and drive them out of business.

But again, I hope he succeeds - I would just appreciate a little honesty.

I think Obama's problem is that he's not making it clear to the American public what this health care reform is all about, which makes it easy to attack. Although he's articulate, he's not a very good communicator when it comes to details, which is what has always frustrated me about him. Here's what I found on the internet about the bill that might help give a little more clarity:

This is the House Democrats' big health care reform bill. Broadly, it seeks to expand health care coverage to the approximately 40 million Americans who are currently uninsured by lowering the cost of health care and making the system more efficient. To that end, it includes a new government-run insurance plan to compete with the private companies, a requirement that all Americans have health insurance, a prohibition on denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions and, to pay for it all, a surtax on households with an income above $350,000. A more detailed summary of the bill by the House Committee on Education and Labor can be read here (four-page .pdf).

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BILLSUMMARY-071409.pdf

America's Affordable Health Choices Act provides quality affordable health care for all Americans and controls health care cost growth. Key provisions of the bill released today include: ï‚ COVERAGE AND CHOICE ï‚ AFFORDABILITY ï‚ SHARED RESPONSIBILITY ï‚ CONTROLLING COSTS ï‚ PREVENTION AND WELLNESS ï‚ WORKFORCE INVESTMENTS

BO says "Your health insurance will be there for you when it counts, not just when you're paying premiums,"

But you better be healthy when it counts!

In reference to the polls that show 70% of Americans supporting health care reform. I was reminded of the last election. Our county had 5 referendums, 4 to build new schools and a 5th for a tax to pay for the new schools. The 4 schools were passed by a 70-30 margin. The tax to pay for them failed by a 40-60 margin. It's real easy to answer a poll saying "I support health care reform". Most folks will, that is until the bill comes due... Let's face it the government has very little chance of effectively managing health care. They have demonstrated this time and time again. In the end the program will come in billions over budget and half of what was promised. Then it will have to be paid for by taxes most of which will come from the middle class.

And the Bogeyman is in real life....Obama... along with his Bogeylady .....Pelosi.. along with the evil clowns Reid and Dodd...

funny how the truth shines through the bushel basket.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

watch and you will be free.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sIC96amGtw&feature=related

schwannomin

Key Democrat Congressional and Senate members meet with the president on a weekly basis. When the opposing party is in majority, both key majority and minority parties meet weekly. There these things can and are discussed.

Being the Majority party is Barak's party, things he would like to see are going to be discussed along with the strategy on how things are presented to the public. Since his party has all the votes they need to pass anything - except for two ill senators, there is no need for him to formally propose things, unless he is in opposition with his own party and needs the oppositions support.

Tony in MN

Perhaps you all should listen to some intelligent people. Instead of all this hype.

We don't need anther medical system, just need to correct the current Medicaid/Medicare system to be efficient.

http://healthpolicyblog.mayoclinic.org/

Tony, many have been saying the same thing, FIX our system already in place. They are "projecting" 900 billion over a 10 year period, now, can any of you on this thread tell me when has the Government been honest about ANY new project, and its cost? Any one? You can't, as they lie to us time and time again. So, you really trust them to do the right thing? If you say yes, you need a CAT Scan. FIX MEDICARE,and MEDICAID. With the money they want to waste on this new Porkulus HR3200 project, there will be plenty to save them, end of story!

Steelman....You are so right! I think people are finally seeing how Obama operates! He cannot be honest by telling whole-truths ...he says things like; 'I'm not for this' or 'I'm not for that'...when he REALLY means down the road, it WILL come to fruition! We are all sick & tired of his lies (kept no campaign promises...& is STILL campaigning)

Yup health cost, not health care! STOP Govt. take-overs! We want to keep whatever freedoms we have left!

Dr. Rodger, if you really are vascular surgeon, could you provide your full name and in which state you hold a medical license to practice. If you really are a surgeon,you should be very concerned that your patients will be screened by a government panel of bureaucrats in order to determine if the surgical procedures you recommend will be allowed. Your evalutation of your patients symptoms, results of the diagnostic testing, physical examine and your medical expertise, on which you now base your criteria for performing a surgical procedure, will no longer be very relevant. The factors used to allow surgical procedures will be based on the patients, age, past and present medical history and an actuary table of their life expectancy. The government will determine if improving or extending a patient's life is worth the cost.

As coming from a country that has a goverment run health care system it seems striking that most of the debators are clearly missing the point:

a US citizen pays now over 7200 dollars per capita for the health care that is not as effetive and well-covering than in a country whose citizen pays only 2500 dollars per capita (even preventive care and dental included).

I would suggest the opponents of the reform to have a look at the OECD stats and rethink their position after that. Saving some money from your pocket is not a good thing?

obama and the dems want single payer . watched a video of obamas speech to AMA. he stated that employer provided insurance will be a thing of the past in 10 years. and 3 dem congress persons stated similar things. they were positive we would single payer health care by the time this uis all over. dont be fooled by the smiles. feel the knife in your back. all who have gopod insurance better watch out. and nothing is going to be done about illegal immigrants so add their care to your tax dollar.

Nancy Pelosi and others have called those of us protesting this Obamanure - thugs, unamerican, mobs, brown shirts and Nazi among other things. The following should bring light to the Nazi accusation.

America is rushing toward government-sponsored, national healthcare. We already have a form of this in Medicare and Medicaid. Hitler, too, expanded and centralized Germany's healthcare system. As Melchior Palyi explained, "The ill-famed Dr. Ley, boss of the Nazi labor front, did not fail to see that the social insurance system could be used for Nazi politics as a means of popular demagoguery, as a bastion of bureaucratic power, [and] as an instrument of regimentation."

These writings by Brannon howse http://www.worldviewtimes.com/article.php/articleid-4881/Brannon-Howse/Brannon-Howse

Obama says good things but how can you believe anyone who has lied so many times and has changed position on so many counts.

The 80% satisfaction does not mean the current system is perfect, it just means that most Americans don't want something that is worse than what they have now.

The Post Office was mentioned. That is an example of an enterprise that even with the rules stacked in its favor still needs government help to survive. How do we expect government health care option to do any better, they misestimated Medicare costs by close to an order of magnitude.

Is this supposed to save money or provide insurance for the estimated 10 million who can't afford it. (the 40-50 million everyone throws around includes the YUPPIES who choose not to buy insurance and the criminals who have snuck through our borders) or is it supposed to limit health care on the high end so everyone gets the same health care? They can't even seem to keep to the same script for a period of time. It seems like they will say anything to get this passed as a monument and a means to grow government.

We need to fix what is broke, not buy a whole new set of problems.

This is so important it merits a lot of rational discussion.

Even though the Democrats have the votes to push this through and there are a lot of people who think they are going to get something free out of this I predict that if they don't get some Republicans (not just RINOs) on board this will not be a great monument to the "caring" of the liberals but rather it will be their grave stone and they may never be a majority again, probably opening the way for a third party to wedge in.

and now the latest wrinkle is to call the misguided health care reform legislation "health insurance reform".what band of idiots laid the foundation for the current health insurance system.......the same buffoons that claim to know how to amend the lunacy they ushered in.

it was the congressional whoremongers who crafted the legislation that currently upholds the health insurance mess that has suddenly become a bigger threat to the survival of all humans residing in the good ole U.S.A.these same idiots pushed managed health care on an unsuspecting populace in the guise of lowering costs and increasing effectiveness of health care delivery.the only real progress was in the profits reaped by the insurance companies who vigirously lobbied congress for the changes that ushered in the managed health care that has collapased in the area of giving effective affordable health care to the public at large.

the fact that the same bunch of crooks is hellbent on repeating the exact type of horrible legislation indicates how out of touch with common folks these losers really are.fix the mess that was brought about FIRST before even considering another attempt at reinventing the wheel........these self loving idiots have not one shred of decency if they really believe their brand of living is the best option available.......clueless bastards all.

If,according to polls, 80% are happy with their insurance and health-care, it will be a hard sell to convince them adding 40 million to the fold will improve things.

Well, technically Dems don't have to convince anyone to go for anything. Dems seem to have an agenda, and their not too worried about voter backlash it appears. They have the majority right now, and it seems they are hell bent on getting through whatever they can before 2010.

Braced for a fight he never got, President Barack Obama went on the offensive in support of his health care plan Tuesday, urging a town hall audience not to listen to those who seek to "scare and mislead the American people."

If we stop listening to those who intend to scare and mislead the American people, that means we would have to stop listening to the majority of our elected officials in Washington! That sound like a good idea Mr President!

Obama I am one of the 80% who has health insurance and I am just fine. Leave us alone. Put the people without on an insurance and send them a bill but the rest of us alone.

Obama says those opposed to health reform are thugs and should be ignored. That is nice for the unifier to say about citizens who disagree with him. He just tells them to shut up and get out of the way. As American's do we really want our President to talk to us this way. What happens when you disagree with him?

His buddies hold their town hall meetings - Spector said I don't have to be here there is not requirement that I do this. That is nice - he wants points just because he went out of his way to talk to the people that he is supposed to represent. The others were no better - I like the guy, wish I could remember his name - that said how many of you are from this ditrict when they raised their hands he said I find that many of you raise your hands but are not from the district. So he just says your lying and if you are against what I say then you must not be from this district. Who cares what district they are from anyway - they are American and have every right to attend and voice their opinion.

You can be for universal health care if you want - but how can anyone who is American be for these elitist chumps who just want us to shut up and do as they tell us. If that is what you want then China would love to have you.

So I take it that all of you were strongly opposed to that $177 Billion handed out to the insurance industry through the Medicare "Advantage" plan. Colleen and company over here sure wouldn't advocate that kind of socialism now would they?

Well luckily that $177 Billion that President Obama spoke about today won't be around too much longer to waste on our socialist Medicare system. Isn't that great, Colleen??

And by the way, we've also heard about your calls for tort reform and allowing insurance companies to set up shop in states with the least restrictions so that they can charge the most while providing the poorest insurance. Those are solutions for the health insurance companies. We want solutions for the middle class- there's a big difference Colleen.

This reform isn't about fattening the wallets of the health insurance industry. That was the last President you're thinking about. This one is going to end the government handouts to the health insurance industry. There's a reason why you're all spending 1.4 million per day to stop this bill. The American people know why.

This was a totally phony meeting in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. They should be embarrassed as a community for allowing themselves to be used in this way. No matter how one feels about the future of healthcare, this total sham and fraud hurts the entire country. The people of Portsmouth, New Hampshire make me ashamed to be an American. Disgusting. Disgraceful.

He reiterated his determination that the plan be paid for without adding to the nation's "soaring deficit."

The only way that's going to happen is if someone pays for it up front. Guess Who?

It's a government program. It's destined to fail. Sallie Mae, Freddie Mac, Medicaid, Social Security. Of late; the BAILOUT! That saved a negative 6.5 millon jobs! We don't need another federal program.

Republicans shouting and creating fear? Typical. Only now, unlike the 2000 recount, they are finding out they are getting shouted back at. Get use to it Republicans we are tired of your bantering.

JH

btco - are you living in a cave? President Obama has said in the past what his real objective is. He wants the government to be in total control. He stated that very clearly in a speech to a union group in the past. He said it wouldn't happen right away, it would take time, it would take the democrats taking control of the White House and congress. He said it and he meant it.

You just keep shining that turd.

This whole thing about Government taking control of every thing sounds a little paraniod to me.

But we should trust the big corporate Insurance companies. Because we all know that the big Corporations have always supported the American people.

Yes supply side economics really worked! When Reagan Cut the tax rate from 60% to 35% they turned around and created millions of new high paying manufacturing jobs.

The truth is corporate america has sold us out. They have exported their jobs they import 15 million legal immegrants into the US to take American jobs.

But the Health Insurance companies they are different right. The cost of health insurance went up 300% during Bush's time in office.

This was after Bush passed a 1.7 trillion dollar S-Chip Prescription drug Medicare program.

The health care refrom has a estimated cost of 900 billion dollars over 10 years.

and yet republicans are a shrinking party that some estimate to be in the mid thirty percentile range with democrats and independents making up the majority of the electorate.if that is the truth then the majority of the popolace that disagrees with them is made up of a considerable number of independents and moderate democrats and dare i say some liberals too.the common thread is their dissatisfaction with the manner in which this ill concieved piece of legislative garbage has been presented.

almost no substance beyond the "idea" of granting health coverage to those who currently do not have it.no decisive mechanism offered to cover the excessive cost,little clarity in what the program consists of,attempting to enact without having a sane rational look at whats under the hood and denigrating anyone who raises these and other legitimate concerns regarding this slieght of hand.

the simple truth is that many americans are at their boiling point with a government that is not only out of control but has incessantly ignored the stated desires of the american people-the same ones who put these self-absorbed losers in office.calling all of the people who dispute tha validity of what the democrats are offering is childish and illustrates a depth of ignorance and hatefulness that seems all too common from the liberals who practice absolute intolerance and dare i say a touch of bigotry as well.

After reading many posts on Newsvine, I have come to the conclusion that we should actually overhaul the education system first. There's alot of dumbass illiterate people out there.

Dal, isn't that funny that the great majority posting here disagree with you. You are wrong and blind! It is President Obama and his liberal Democrat minions that are spreading the fear with their disinformation and constantly changing their stance. Wake up and smell the manure pile Pal! You've been hoodwinked by the liberal media and the propaganda of the current administration!

THE health bills coming out of Congress would put the decisions about your care in the hands of presidential appointees. They'd decide what plans cover, how much leeway your doctor will have and what seniors get under Medicare.

Yet at least two of President Obama's top health advisers should never be trusted with that power.

Start with Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. He has already been appointed to two key positions: health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel bluntly admits that the cuts will not be pain-free. "Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change," he wrote last year (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).

Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others" (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).

Yes, that's what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else.

Many doctors are horrified by this notion; they'll tell you that a doctor's job is to achieve social justice one patient at a time.

Emanuel, however, believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's or a child with cerebral palsy.

He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: "Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years" (Lancet, Jan. 31).

The bills being rushed through Congress will be paid for largely by a $500 billion-plus cut in Medicare over 10 years. Knowing how unpopular the cuts will be, the president's budget director, Peter Orszag, urged Congress this week to delegate its own authority over Medicare to a new, presidentially-appointed bureaucracy that wouldn't be accountable to the public.

Since Medicare was founded in 1965, seniors' lives have been transformed by new medical treatments such as angioplasty, bypass surgery and hip and knee replacements. These innovations allow the elderly to lead active lives. But Emanuel criticizes Americans for being too "enamored with technology" and is determined to reduce access to it.

Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends slowing medical innovation to control health spending.

Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls, though he concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and "reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices" (New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001). But he calls it "debatable" whether the timely care Americans get is worth the cost. (Ask a cancer patient, and you'll get a different answer. Delay lowers your chances of survival.)

Obama appointed Blumenthal as national coordinator of health-information technology, a job that involves making sure doctors obey electronically deivered guidelines about what care the government deems appropriate and cost effective.

In the April 9 New England Journal of Medicine, Blumenthal predicted that many doctors would resist "embedded clinical decision support" -- a euphemism for computers telling doctors what to do.

Americans need to know what the president's health advisers have in mind for them. Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans expect too much: "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more privacy . . . physicians' offices are typically more conveniently located and have parking nearby and more attractive waiting rooms" (JAMA, June 18, 2008).

No one has leveled with the public about these dangerous views. Nor have most people heard about the arm-twisting, Chicago-style tactics being used to force support. In a Nov. 16, 2008, Health Care Watch column, Emanuel explained how business should be done: "Every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health-care reform agenda. If the automakers want a bailout, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration's health-reform effort."

Do we want a "reform" that empowers people like this to decide for us?

THE health bills coming out of Congress would put the decisions about your care in the hands of presidential appointees. They'd decide what plans cover, how much leeway your doctor will have and what seniors get under Medicare.

Yet at least two of President Obama's top health advisers should never be trusted with that power.

Start with Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. He has already been appointed to two key positions: health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel bluntly admits that the cuts will not be pain-free. "Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change," he wrote last year (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).

Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others" (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).

Yes, that's what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else.

Many doctors are horrified by this notion; they'll tell you that a doctor's job is to achieve social justice one patient at a time.

Emanuel, however, believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's or a child with cerebral palsy.

He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: "Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years" (Lancet, Jan. 31).

The bills being rushed through Congress will be paid for largely by a $500 billion-plus cut in Medicare over 10 years. Knowing how unpopular the cuts will be, the president's budget director, Peter Orszag, urged Congress this week to delegate its own authority over Medicare to a new, presidentially-appointed bureaucracy that wouldn't be accountable to the public.

Since Medicare was founded in 1965, seniors' lives have been transformed by new medical treatments such as angioplasty, bypass surgery and hip and knee replacements. These innovations allow the elderly to lead active lives. But Emanuel criticizes Americans for being too "enamored with technology" and is determined to reduce access to it.

Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends slowing medical innovation to control health spending.

Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls, though he concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and "reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices" (New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001). But he calls it "debatable" whether the timely care Americans get is worth the cost. (Ask a cancer patient, and you'll get a different answer. Delay lowers your chances of survival.)

Obama appointed Blumenthal as national coordinator of health-information technology, a job that involves making sure doctors obey electronically deivered guidelines about what care the government deems appropriate and cost effective.

In the April 9 New England Journal of Medicine, Blumenthal predicted that many doctors would resist "embedded clinical decision support" -- a euphemism for computers telling doctors what to do.

Americans need to know what the president's health advisers have in mind for them. Emanuel sees even basic amenities as luxuries and says Americans expect too much: "Hospital rooms in the United States offer more privacy . . . physicians' offices are typically more conveniently located and have parking nearby and more attractive waiting rooms" (JAMA, June 18, 2008).

No one has leveled with the public about these dangerous views. Nor have most people heard about the arm-twisting, Chicago-style tactics being used to force support. In a Nov. 16, 2008, Health Care Watch column, Emanuel explained how business should be done: "Every favor to a constituency should be linked to support for the health-care reform agenda. If the automakers want a bailout, then they and their suppliers have to agree to support and lobby for the administration's health-reform effort."

Do we want a "reform" that empowers people like this to decide for us?

We need to pay attention to some facts on these figures they use against the people. Of the 47 million that have no ins 24 million are young and healthy and DO NOT want it at this time of their lives. Choice? Can you say 23 million? Or doesnt that have the shock and awe effect that Pelosi likes to state? They get no choice in his plan, every American must pay more money to a too big gov if this passes, PERIOD! . Add to this the fact that if you change your ins for any reason at all, after year 1 of his healthscam, you will be forced into the public gov plan in most cases! NO NEW ENROLLEES after yr 1 for employee ins plans period! Every new worker will be forced into the gov plan the way I read this, and I HAVE read the bill several times! 500 billion in medicare cuts and the seniors will get BETTER care? Sell that waterfront property in arizona to an ignorant liberal, I dont buy that for a minute!

Town hall meeting in N H? Since when is a town hall by invite only? Since when do you bus in liberals from mass if you actually want a real debate of hometown people? Then the dems go back to DC and say see N H wants our healthscam plan! See the pattern here? This is just a sample of the liberal socialism pattern of deception that a lot of you people are buting into today without seeing the true picture. OPEN YOUR EYES AND MINDS FOLKS we are all being sold down the drain , towards socialism/ communism, dictatorship politics and it must stop! And any liberal who thinks they have the tools to debate in here , go for it, just try to state facts instead of playing your race card or crying oh the poor half black pres gets no respect card, in my world people get my respect when they EARN it! You know the term EARN, like working for a living and paying taxes? Oh of course some dont know this, they want to sit on their asses and suck off the real americans who have been paying into this gov for 30 plus years like me! Funny how the Pres had a disapproval rating on his healthscam of 80% right here huh?

I lived in Montreal for the past 5 years! The waiting lists, shortage of doctors, time to see a spec, etc are terrible! OH BTW, I was taxed at a 60% , thats right 60% rate to pay for the so-called FREE healthcare! In living there I noticed 2 distinct types of people, the lazy non-working canadians who LOVE the FREE healthcare and the welfare, no matter what the wait is, and then you have the working class and business owners paying out the ass for the rest of the freeloaders, and believe me I have yet to meet one who does not say, wish we had a private ins option like the states, and also state ,oh we go to the USA to get better healthcare in some cases! YA OUR HEALTHCARE IS SO BAD HERE OTHER COUNTRIES COME HERE FOR CARE, and tell me the last time an AMERICAN went to another country for healthcare? THERE ISNT ONE MORONS! Stick your liberal doubletalk you know where , that scam has been exposed for the gov takeover it truly is!

Mirac--you are so right--people in Canada abuse the health care system ad nauseum--I worked in Emerg and be came very frustrated with the backups to see a doctor. whole families come in and demand "checkups" and NO ONE can be turned away. Each visit is MINIMUM $800 per registration. Taxes are minimum 35% and that includes low income. They won't go to a clinic because they have to make an appointment . 5% of patients in Emerg in Canada are "emergencies" . That is a statistic.--well documented. Americans would be nuts to adopt that system.

All of this pushing to get something rammed through that the majority of Americans are against makes you wonder why it has to be passed in the first place. What is really behind this?

The President says the current system is unsustainable, well he's right -- in a sense. Medicare and medicaid are going broke as a huge aging population is going onto the system. In 2008 over 40% of all babies were born to unwed mothers, so a huge influx of kids on assistance for food, medicaid, etc... Social Security is going broke and the funds were raided long ago, it is simply a ponzi scheme taking out of our checks and giving the money to retirees. There are simply not enough tax paying producers to pay for everything and the government keeps growing.

So....how does adding another 40 million people to an already failing system help? It's not about healthcare, its about getting into peoples' bank accounts and withdrawing funds to keep the house of cards from collapsing. In the bill is Government Electronic Funds Transfer from your account, to them to pay for your insurance. I wonder how much they are planning to take from each person? The lanugage indicates that the more you make, the more they will take, regardless of your health status, marital status, how many kids you have or whether you even use almost any services at all.

This is a slippery slope. How long will it be before Government simply decides what amount you need to live on and simply transfers everything else out of your account each month? It sounds like a scary nightmare, but then who would have ever imagined the bail-outs, take-over of the auto industry and the 'news' companies turning into propaganda machines for politicians?

The other thing I find to be disturbing is our President not letting anyone who disagrees with him into town halls, press conferences, etc.... And the media and DNC attacking anyone who voices a differing opinion (even if they are democrats) as right wing, extremists, red necks, racists and nut jobs. Even in the latest article, the media points out there were no dissenting opinions or even any questions....I wonder why? It is interesting to see some posts from people who wanted to go to a town hall but were not allowed to because they weren't an Obama supporter and did not want government run health care.

There is no question after reading portions of the bill, that a single payer system will be the result. And that is not surprising as the Government needs access to as many peoples' bank accounts as possible, to draw enough money to sustain itself.

It is a sad day when under the cover 'healthcare' no wait, 'insurance reform' the government passes a law to transfer an untold amount of money from peoples' bank accounts each month,

In response to 1.117: Here are the facts. Anyone can verify them by reading the bill at http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

Actual itemized contents of the Health Care Reform Bill:

"Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!"

TRUTH: This is not an "audit," it's a study. Moreover, the bill states (pp. 22-23) that the report will "include any recommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate to ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and mid-size employers to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of large group insurers and self-insured employers." This is almost directly the opposite of the email's claim.

"Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!"

TRUTH: Page 29 continues to define the "essential benefits package" and discusses limits on what Americans will have to spend on health care under this minimum standard. In no way does this section stipulate the rationing of care.

"Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)"

TRUTH: Page 30 begins to describe the Health Benefits Advisory Committee which establishes certain minimum standards for health insurance plans. In no way does this committee deny treatments and benefits to Americans with health insurance.

"Page 42: The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None."

TRUTH: Page 42 begins to describe the Health Choices Commissioner's duties. The idea that this person will decide what benefits Americans receive is patently false, given that most Americans will keep their current plans under reform, and Americans within the exchange will have the choice of purchasing many different kinds of health plans. Rather, the Commissioner will establish minimum standards to protect Americans.

"Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services."

TRUTH: Pages 50-51 contain a provision stating that discrimination will not be allowed in the provision of health care services. Nowhere does the bill state that non-US citizens will be provided free health care services. The bill prohibits federal dollars from being used for undocumented immigrants.

"Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard."

TRUTH: Page 58, in the context of a discussion of administrative standards, mentions that "determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility...may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card." In no way does the bill state that such a card would be national, or that it would be issued to every person, or that it would, in fact, be used at all.

"Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer."

TRUTH: Page 59 continues the discussion of administrative standards, and authorizes electronic transfers of money within the government. In no way does this provision grant the government access to individual bank accounts.

"Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)"

TRUTH: Here's what page 65 says: "Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall establish a temporary reinsurance program to provide reimbursement to assist participating employment-based plans with the cost of providing health benefits to retirees and to eligible spouses, surviving spouses and dependents of such retirees." No mention is made of unions or community organizations.

"Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange."

TRUTH: That's true! Plans have to have a minimum standard of benefits, bat can offer other plans as well. But that's fair, isn't it? Private insurers can continue to operate outside the exchange if they wish - should the government establish no standards for the exchange? In that case, how could reform end insurance industry abuses and help to control costs?

"Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)"

TRUTH: This section says is that if private health care plans want to operate in the Exchange, they must provide a basic benefit package.

"Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens"

TRUTH: Some American citizens are more comfortable speaking a language other than English, especially in a sensitive situation like a consultation with their doctor. This provision in no way opens the door for coverage of undocumented workers.

"Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan."

TRUTH: Page 95 makes no mention of ACORN and Americorps; all it says is that the Commissioner can conduct outreach to vulnerable populations, making them aware of their options.

"Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter."

TRUTH: People who are eligible for Medicaid will not have to face the burdens of paperwork and other bureaucratic struggles. Far from depriving people of choice, this measure will ensure coverage.

"Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No 'judicial review' is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed."

TRUTH: This section describes rate-setting under the public health insurance plan option, which will compete with private insurers, who can set their own rates. Because of inherent advantages like their established administrative and provider frameworks, private insurance companies will not be "crushed" by government competition.

"Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages."

TRUTH: The government will negotiate rates with providers under the public health insurance plan option. However, private insurers will continue to pay their own rates.

"Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives."

TRUTH: This is simply not true. Employers with more than 20 employees aren't even eligible to participate in the exchange, let alone the public plan, until several years after the exchange launches in 2013. Moreover, no employer will be forced to participate in the public plan.

"Page 146: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families."

TRUTH: Employers are required to pay some benefits for part-time employees on a basis proportional to what they pay for full-time employees. No language on this page or the next stipulates coverage for the families of part-time employees.

"Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll"

TRUTH: The payroll penalty applies to employers with payroll over $500,000 who do not provide insurance to their employees. The percentage for employers with payroll from $500,000 - $750,000 is 6%. Employers do not have to offer the public option to avoid this penalty, they can offer private insurance if they wish.

"Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll"

TRUTH: This is false, see above.

"Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income."

TRUTH: Pages 167-173 detail what "acceptable health care" means (basically, insurance coverage) and also allow for many different kinds of exceptions to this rule.

"Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them)."

TRUTH: Non-resident aliens do not have to pay the penalty for not having health insurance, nor will the receive federal assistance, because they are not required to purchase health insurance. They are not exempted from individual taxes generally.

"Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records."

TRUTH: This is a gross overstatement. For the purposes of determining affordability credits for Americans who need financial assistance in purchasing health insurance, employees of the Health Choices Administration will have access to tax information that the federal government already keeps. As is clearly stated on page 196, "Return information... may be used by officers and employees of the Health Choices Administration or such State-based health insurance exchange, as the case may be, only for the purposes of, and to the extent necessary in, establishing and verifying the appropriate amount of any affordability credit described in subtitle C of title II of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 and providing for the repayment of any such credit which was in excess of such appropriate amount.''

"Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that."

TRUTH: This quote is taken out of context, and is in fact referring to a calculation used in the bill. Full context of quote: "'(4) NOT TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES.-The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under this chapter or for purposes of section 55.''

"Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

TRUTH: This section has nothing whatsoever to do with reducing services. It makes much needed changes to the way in which physician reimbursement is recalculated every year. The bill will, in fact, create much more opportunity for seniors and the poor to receive necessary care.

"Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)"

TRUTH: Page 241 does not say this. Nowhere does it say this. It does say that physicians will be grouped into certain categories regardless of specialty. These categories merely determine if the physician is engaged in primarily therapeutic or preventative care.

"Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc."

TRUTH: There is no good response to this assertion as it appears to have been made up completely. The section deals with 'misvalued codes' meaning that the government is potentially not paying an acceptable rate for a specific service. This will allow the government to, for example, pay more for services that require more payment, such as high-overhead procedures. The author of these criticisms separately attacks the bill for paying the same rate to all doctors, then attacks again for paying different rates.

"Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries."

TRUTH: This section amends the Social Security Act to include productivity measures. There is no mandate or control of anything. This merely updates the way in which doctors and hospitals are paid through Medicare.

"Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs."

TRUTH: This is simply not true. This slightly amends existing guidelines for payments for medical equipment, in this case power-driven wheelchairs. This section introduces no 'regulations' that are not in the Social Security Act.

"Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!"

TRUTH: Overusage of the hot-button word "rationing" is a way to deflect attention away from the actual language of the bill and incite unjustified fear. This section only compares costs incurred by cancer hospitals to costs incurred by similar hospitals, and adjusts payments to reduce the possibility of fraud and abuse.

"Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions."

TRUTH: This is almost correct. The section is one of the first efforts at targeting excessive readmissions. Excessive readmissions are physically and emotionally damaging to patients, while simultaneously putting them, and the health care system, in far more financial risk than is necessary. The American Hospital Association recommended reduced payments for avoidable readmission in testimony to Congress.

"Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government."

TRUTH: This is patently false. The section is about possible methods that the Secretary of Health and Human services might consider in order to address the growing problem of patient readmission. This section does not, in any way, create a penalty, nor does it even mandate policy. It merely provides examples of recourses that might be considered.

"Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies!"

TRUTH: This provision only limits Doctor's investments in health care facilities that they refer patients to The effort to limit self-referral has been ongoing for many years as an effort to reduce fraud and abuse. This is, essentially, the medical community equivalent of insider trading. Limiting this incentive works to put the patient's health above all other considerations. Doctors remain free to engage in investment opportunities in areas that don't create a significant conflict of interest.

"Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval."

TRUTH: This section regulates physicians' investment in hospitals to make sure that physicians are not unfairly benefiting from their power to refer patients to hospitals they have a stake in. The section does not prohibit hospital expansion.

"Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on 'community' input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN."

TRUTH: In the ongoing effort to demonize community-based groups such as ACORN, every instance of the word "community" has become associated with that group's efforts. In reality, this provision allows for anyone to provide input. This includes homeowners, religious leaders, neighborhood groups, and others. There are no payoffs. There is no money exchanged in any way.

"Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing."

TRUTH: This provision is included in order to allow the government to base payments on practices that work. Nowhere does it say health care will be rationed. The attempt to isolate what works and what does not work in Medicare Advantage plans only benefits the health care system in general.

"Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc."

TRUTH: The government can disqualify some Medicare Advantage Plans from receiving some additional payments, but only if those plans are not meeting necessary requirements.

"Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals."

TRUTH: This section only deals with how to handle special needs individuals who need to enroll outside of the open enrollment period. Almost every type of plan operates with open enrollment periods. This section does not create more restrictions.

"Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone)."

TRUTH: This section merely expands existing Telehealth programs, which supplement but do not replace other health coverage, and provide a vital resource to Americans in rural and remote areas.

"Page 425-430: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?; Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time; Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death; Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends; Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT; Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life."

TRUTH: All of these hysterical claims have been debunked elsewhere. HR3200 provides for the reimbursement of a voluntary session of end-of-life counseling with your physician once every five years. This in no way means the government will make decisions for patients or encourage doctor-assisted suicide. Counseling simply makes patients and their families aware of their options.

"Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN."

TRUTH: ACORN is not a Community-Based Medical Home.

"Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN."

TRUTH: This is clearly still referring to community health groups, not ACORN.

"Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage."

TRUTH: Covering marriage and family therapy, as many private insurance plans do, does not mean that the government "intervenes in your marriage." The types of individuals who are recognized as therapists are clearly defined on page 491; in brief, professionals only, not bureaucrats.

"Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services."

TRUTH: This section expands government coverage for mental health services under various government programs, and ensures that all mental health services will be offered by qualified professionals.

updated 4:43 p.m. CT, Tues., Aug 11, 2009

WASHINGTON - A swastika was found Tuesday painted on a sign outside Rep. David Scott's district office, an act the Georgia Democrat said reflects an increasingly hateful and racist Republican extremist movement.

Jeb, when you say "The phony argument that a public choice will undercut private insurance is typical scare tactic. They argue that the government can charge less...if this is the case then their argument for outsource is phony. They can't both be correct"

Are you really that stupid? Truly? Seriously?

You can't comprehend the differences between the "Premiums" that the government charges businesses and private parties and the "funding" that comes from taxation? Really? Truly? Seriously?

If you're that stupid that you can't see how the government can simply operate at a loss (deficits) where private industry cannot, then perhaps you've got even bigger problems.

Absolutely unbelievable.

Obama the fear-monger. Never let a good crisis go to waste, OR Create a crisis and jam change down the throats of those too timid to speak out.

American citizens need to take a lesson from POGO-WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.” ... The results of the process fall on the head of the public and he who is recalcitrant or procrastinates in raising his voice can blame no one but himself

Watch out for the bogeyman!

I am tired of people blocking real discussions on the issue.

Not true - plain stupid of anyone. No sides here. Anyone who stops meaningful discussions is wrong. This is about fixing health care that is killing Americans today. Not being able to have a rational discussion is plain stupid, shouting over people wanting information is rude and ignorant. It's like three year olds behaving badly. Ignorance is NOT bliss.

btco - most people don't start shouting until they feel their questions are being ignored. What has been proposed so far is so convoluted that nobody understands it. And everyone is just supposed to "trust" these clowns to get it right without any questions?

Springbank..you need to notice that both parties do exactly the same things .Both parties claim the other is in correct about what they are doing....and neither are doing anything.

Ivan,

There are not enough Republicans in office to do anything. Have not been in awhile, Democrats have been the majority. Currently no checks and balances in the three legs of government.

This is all I am saying - ANYONE who tries to shout over honest dialog is wrong and needs to quit acting like idiots - I mean anyone. This is the most ignorant bull crap I have ever seen grown people do in my life - no matter who it is or when.

I have seen so much vile lies spewed forth on this topic it's insane. Palin saying her child will die - What a load of crap!!!!!

We kill our own friends, families and neighbors today, with our current system. We need reforms and we need to get them done. Now how about an honest debate, not on "granny killing" or "socialism" or "1000 pages". If people don't understand, then maybe they need to read up, learn and study before just going in and acting like fools.

I dunno. I find that www.factcheck.org is a rational voice in this discourse. Go get the facts!

Obama appealed for a rational debate and poked at critics who he said were trying to "scare the heck out of folks."

This is exactly why people are so pi**ed. Obama says he wants a debate, but is doing everything he can to shove it through RIGHT NOW without time for a debate. If we get this wrong it's not like a private corporation putting out a bad product. This could potentially effect every American. And by the time it's found out to be broke, the entire health care industry will be destroyed.

The people in these townhall meetings are as informed as most citizens on either side of the issues. They are just tired of being ignored by the representatives they voted into office.

When you are sick & tired of not being listened to, and are written off as a "right-wing-nut" by arrogant, elitist senators and congresspeople, you get a little angry! And maybe out of frustration, you shout. That makes you a fool? Did you watch the meeting w/ Specter in PA today? Pretty well-controlled crowd. They still disagree and are angry but I thought for the most part everyone behaved.

But they still disagree. So are they still fools? mobs? un-American? Nazis? Most of those on the left would say yes.

and Obama will say whatever he has to in order to get this going. His agenda was set long before he took the oath of office.

btco

You don't see what is going on? When the Democrats want something it's real discussion,when Republicans want something it reactionary.. The hypocrite's of the left is laughable..

The tea bagers (i wasn't one of them) were misinformed malcontents,not protesters who want less government in there lives....The Democrats want something this it a simple protest and if you disagree you are unamerican.....You can't have it both ways....I have just as much right to shout from the roof top i don't want,like or need the government making health care decisions for me or my family....If you disagree than you are the problem not me....

I would like to say I did see the town hall meeting today with Specter in PA. I thought that the man trying to speak was doing quite well and could understand his frustration. I did not understand why another man got up and tried to make him sit down, that was weird and certainly not the right thing to do.

However, there were only 30 cards given to people and the man who got so upset should have known this. Also, he made his point, not one I agree with, but I thought he did well with the point UNTIL he got to God, then he blew it. God should have been left out of it. God has no place in health care reform.

btco: Where were have you been for the last 8 years when the libs pounded on Bush about being a "liar", which he wasn't, when the libs disrupted meetings, speeches, etc.? The problem is that in order for 2 people to have a rational discussion of the issues, there must be 2 rational people. Do you really believe that this administration is after anything less than full control of health care? If you do, then it is clear that you haven't been paying attention. Does the government take-over of GM and Chrysler ring a bell? How about the banks? Do you really think that the federal government and private insurance companies would be "equal competitors" in the market place? More importantly, do you think it is the federal government's role to be running the health care system, or other traditionally private sector businesses? If you think that it is, then have you heard of a document called the Constitution? Are you familiar with it's language and the history and meaning of it? If you understand that the document was designed to limit the power of government, then there is no way you could reach a conclusion that what is being attempted is constitutional. In addition, if you trust the politicians to run your health care, I'm assuming that when the republicans get back in control, that you will maintain your call for civility and trust that they are looking out for you too.

BO is out in packed town hall meetins talking about something he doesn't even know about since he hasn't read the bill. And btco thinks BO knows because he's the one. If they took the money being spent to defend this bs bill, they could cover the few uninsured. But they don't want that they want control.

Roxy, the fact that you suggest that the democratic party is "elitist" is laughable. Republicans are known for being in big business and oil. The democrats are known for being about the middle-class...the people who make up MOST of America.

One is not a fool if they simply disagree, and voice their opinion in a respectful way. However, when one interrupts another and screams to the point of having a red face and spitting all over the place, before the person can even finish a sentence, or finish a thought, THAT is when things get out of hand.

And no, you are incorrect when you say "most of them on the left would say yes". You are generalizing with no facts, nothing to back your statement. I would never call someone the names you stated just because they disagree with me, that is just ridiculous and childish. Most people are not like that.

President Obama wants to get this rolling because we have spent far too long as Americans with a broken system. I commend him for having the guts to actually get something done for us. He has worked his tail off more in the past few months, than George W. Bush did in eight years.

Let us all get our facts strait before spewing nonsense. Let us debate in a humane way, an intelligent way, an American way. The last thing we need in this country is to start a verbal, physical...whatever, kind of war amongst ourselves. We need to come together and be strong.

Disagree if you feel you need to, however please do it in a way that is constructive. I was always taught that if a person was to disagree with a plan, then they need to also have a new idea to back it up. I believe that if we follow this ideal, we could come up with a very good plan.

But let us please not make more fools of the USA, by turning against one another. Let's respect each other instead.

btco,,,you are 100% correct, these town hall meeting have been taken over by organized groups who's only purpose is to drown out the message and legitimate questions being asked. Over and over i have seen the instructions that were handed out to these groups and it simply tells the people to "shout out" , "drown out the speaker", "challenge everything" enlist others to shout with you,,etc. This is not about having a discussion, it's one and only purpose is to disrupt I don't believe this is just the GOP who's behind this though,,I'd bet my last dollar the Insurance Company's are the main force supporting this kind of "crap".

btco, i think part of the frustration is that obama and his cronies (on both sides of the isle) trying to ram this thing through are not allowing time for debate or even time for them to read the damn thing. And now he wants debate? How about on the floor before they vote for it...? It doesn't take affect until after the next presidential debate, so wth is the rush? they have YEARS to debate this thing before they vote it into law. Red flags immediately went up in many minds when they said it needed to go through NOW. WHY?

Peach - A big part of the problem is he is trying to do too much too fast - or as you say working his tail off. Some of this stuff needs to slow down. He is even quoted back in 2004 saying that things are being pushed/passed too fast by the Bush administration. Why is everything being pushed so fast? The stimulous HAD to be passed right away, yet it is taking so long for us to see the money flow. Would a week or two have hurt that much, so that the reps could read the items added at the last minute? Now we are affraid of the rush to pass healthcare. What are they trying to hide?

If the Republicans are the party of big business and the insurance companies are lobbying for protection, then the Democrats are protecting the lawyers and not discussing tort reform in these healthcare bills. Have you ever talked to a doctor about what malpractice insurance is like? Try talking to a doctor in Illinois and see what they think!

btco-

Obama and the libs aren't allowing any discussion and what they are spewing is not even close to honest. That includes you.

Notice how practically every section starts with "The government will....

Happyblue

God should have been left out of it. God has no place in health care reform.

You have just proven yourself part of the problem.

This plan is Un-American................equality for all does not mean shaft the terminally ill and elderly. Someone needs to make the Senators, Congressmen, Obama & his cabinet read the inscription at the base of the Statue of Liberty!! Pelousi is pushing policies that are socialist and extremely Un-American.

Let's all be true Americans and vote these jerks out of office!!

BTCO

The democrats don't want HONEST DIALOG, they what to LIE about what's really in this bill and the American people know this. Yes it pisses me off to set there and listen to a lying @ss democrate. Yes people are going to be up in arms when they know they can not trust what these people are saying in town hall meetings.

DONT PISS DOWN MY BACK AND TELL ME IT'S RAINING!

Ivan...

I agree with you....neither party has proven themselves "capable" or "believeable" thru the years, therefore, the less either side wants or tries to do to "change" things in this country, the better off we will be for the lack of effort.

As much as Bill Clinton was a distrustful liar and a personal scumbag.....as president, he tried to do very few major things and he let the economy do what it does best in times of growth, in that case, the internet explosion.

Despite the same campaign rhetoric of "change" as Mr. Obama, Mr. Clinton's attempted changes were mostly minor in nature. Even though he was a dirtball, I can honestly say I long for good old days of Bubba in the office and staying out of the way, as opposed to this new bird, who may next decide to have the White House painted red...to best reflect the future state of our economy.

As we later learned, Bubba was a bit preoccupied with "other" matters. Maybe that was actually a good thing.

Both parties are guilty of having bullies who try to squash discussion.I used to kick the $h*t out of bullies but lawyers are too expensive,plus I'm getting older so I prefer to let the law work.If you disrupt a meeting,it's so long to you,and if you should be so stupid as to throw a punch,you should go to jail.That goes for either side.

The Worm Turned

It is interesting to me that you have quite nicely catalogued all the provisions of the bill you don't like, very organized of you. I am curious though, since there is no bill yet, where this came from. As I understand it, there are 3 separate house bills and 2 senate bills that must be coordinated in order to come up with a single bill that can be sent to the president. What bill is this from. Some of these scary provisions that you have in your bill (Establishment of a Public Health Service for example) are not new to this bill, we have had the USPHS for many years with some of its "officers" being government employees. OOOOHHHH! And for your information, physician "residency" has nothing to do with where your doctor lives . . . it is part of their medical education, dolt! Just sayin'

brett, I'm not trying to be funny, but I have read nothing in the news (believe it or not) about union thugs or ACORN people trying to intimidate town hall protestors. Can you give me somewhere with some specifics I can read about this, please? Is it really happening? If so, why are the people putting up with this, and why isn't the mainstream media reporting it?

Well hipocricy runs rempant among you left leaners and it's really pathetic. Here's a walk down memory lane from the last 8 years. You tell me who the mobs are comprised of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycFZqEaFN2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ue78juosss&feature=related

And this wacko is still going... Hey Cindy, GWB isn't Pres. anymore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN6BS-zlkH4

Before Obama Screws up our lives with his brand of health-care reform

Let’s see what other debacles he has in store for us;

Illegal alien amnesty,

Cap-n-trade,

Union Card Check,

Acorn taking and manipulating the 2010 census,

Timmy the tax-cheat Geithner’s plans for getting the government out of the Banking and Housing business, Geithner still has a skeleton crew working for him because he is so busy embezzling the country’s future for Obama,

Pulling our troops out of the Mideast insane asylum like he said he would,

Figure out the balance sheet on Cash for Clunkers,

Balance the Federal budget instead of becoming a Totalitarian Dictator,

Get Government out of the car manufacturing business,

Giving us our money back and cut the pork stimulus,

Learning to read before he signs a Bill into Law

And any other garbage he has up his sleeve.

Or we could take the bull by the tail and face the situation,

It's Time for Obama to go away.

DO ANY OF YOU remember all the really bad and negative things NANCY PELOSI always said about Pres. BUSH?? Now talk about being unAmerican. What a bit** she is. AND STUPID. The problem with OBAMA is, he has NO IDEA what's inside of this bill. NONE. It's nothing he wrote and when questions are posed to him, he's not lying, he simply has NO IDEA WHAT THE FU** the bill says to begin with. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. He is clueless about his own party's bill!!

Worm Turned,

Please stop cutting and pasting from Liberty University. I would hardly call this a non-biased evaluation of H.R.3200. I have read it and there are obvious flaws in your bulleted list, such as taking subsections and treating them as major sections. Please read the bill yourself and stop taking someone else's word for it.

You are part of the problem here and you and your ilk keep perpetuating fallacies. Why are you determined to do this to yourself?

To Peach: It's laughable to think Democrats are for the middle class based on their actions in the past....not their words.....

From an email I recently received...

Our Social Security

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
> Security (FICA) Program. He promised:
>
>
>
> 1.) That participation in the Program would be
> completely voluntary.
>
> 2.) That the participants would only have to pay
> 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
> incomes into the Program,
>
> 3.) That the money the participants elected to put
> into the Program would be deductible from
> their income for tax purposes each year,
>
> 4.) That the money the participants put into the
> Independent 'Trust Fund' rather than into the
> General Operating Fund, and therefore, would
> only be used to fund the Social Security
> Retirement Program, and no other
> government program, and,
>
> 5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees
> would never be taxed as income.
>
> Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
> now receiving a Social Security check every month --
> and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
> the money we paid to the federal government to 'put
> away', you may be interested in the following:
>

> -------------------------------------------------------------

>
> Q: Which political party took Social Security from
> the Independent 'Trust Fund' and put it in to the
> General Fund so that Congress could spend it?
>
> A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically-
controlled House and Senate.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> Q: Which political party eliminated the income tax
> deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?
>
> A: The Democratic Party.
>

> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Q: Which political party started taxing Social
> Security annuities?
>
> A: The Democratic
> Party, with Al Gore casting the
> 'tie-breaking' deciding vote as President of the
> Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.
>
> --------------------------------------
>
> Q: Which political party decided to start giving
> annuity payments to immigrants?
>
> AND MY
> FAVORITE:

>
> A: That's right!
>
> Jimmy Carter and
> the Democratic Party.
>
>
> Immigrants moved
> into this country, and at age 65,
> they began to receive Social Security payments! The
> Democratic Party gave these payments to them
> even though they never paid a dime into it!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> Then, after violating the original contract (FICA),
the Democrats turn around and tell you that the
> Republicans want to take your Social Security away!

>
> And the worst part about it is, uninformed citizens believe
> it!

> AND CONGRESS GIVES THEMSELVES 100% RETIREMENT
>
> FOR ONLY SERVING ONE TERM!!!

Peach, Explain again how the Democrats have been for the middle class??????

And you think this scenario won't happen with Healthcare!!!!!!!!

peach-1197586

Roxy, the fact that you suggest that the democratic party is "elitist" is laughable. Republicans are known for being in big business and oil. The democrats are known for being about the middle-class...the people who make up MOST of America.

That's funny. What politican history book did you read? Democrats are also involved in big business and oil and by the way, they focus on the lower class and take money away from the middle class. Politicians from both sides are backed by big business interests.

Sec. 163, Pg. 59, Lines 21-24 - Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer

The moment the government drafts anything from my bank account is the day I withdraw every penny.

Please stop cutting and pasting from Liberty University.

Its enough to know that we'll be paying for the healthcare of illegal aliens and anyone else who wants to cross the border. THIS BILL IS ****ING OUTRAGEOUS!!!

Look for it! Amnesty and immigration "reform" is next up! Obama is going to get all your stupid ****ers on the hook, and then open the gates.

Fred - Good Post. And Congress give themselves 100% retirement with Healthcare Insurance. Why do some people just not get this.

Looks like btco took the typical libs way out, avoid. It is very hard to have a "dialogue" with anyone who doesn't answer questions or outright lies. That is their strategy. Like everything this administration has done, it is based on lies. Obama has pushed through, and tries to push this through, based on their being a "crisis". By making that claim, he has been able to push through things that people aren't aware of, including those voting on it. The fact is that there has been no "crisis" that needed immediate attention since Obama took office. The health care situation is NOT a crisis. The US has the best system of health care in the world. We also have the best care providers. Although, if you listened to Obama or the dems, you would never know that.

Yes, the cost is higher than it could be. Of course the threat of litigaion and the costs thereof is obscene. The dems thwarted every effort to get that under control. Rather than placing reasonable controls, they have encouraged extra expenses in this area. What the trial lawyers and dems don't realize is that if Obama and the dems are successful in getting the health care system completely under government control, then these malpractice costs will disappear because the government will maintain it's immunity. Doctors won't have to worry, because they will all be employees of the federal government, thus also immune. That part isn't in the present bill, but the present discussion is merely a step in that direction.

Shame, shame. If China were monitoring the intellectual level of most of these 'cry wolf, doom and gloom' posts, their confidence of over taking America as the worlds super power must be soaring , especially knowing American children now rank 21st in science education and are not even in the top 25 in math.... Oh how I miss those yester years when America was the envy of the world in science and math education. Shame, shame

btco.....Yep, I just read through 100 pages of HR3200 with intentions to finish reading the thing before our Congressional reps, and special interest groups, draft another completely different plan.

After just 100 pages, I am ready to start SHOUTING. And no, I am not un-American (retired 30 yr military), am not an activist, am not paid for by any special interest group, and am niether Democratic or Republican.

Too bad I didn't have a medical professional, lawyer, or elected Congressional rep by my side to interpet the bill. It would take days to cross- reference all the various laws, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Income Tax, et al, references within the bill. If you can make sense of the bill on how it will affect you, then you need to be on a Health Care Reform panel.

"I have seen so much vile lies spewed forth on this topic it's insane."

Sounds reasonable to me that posters read the bill then "cross reference" those items discussed by our elected officials at town hall meetings and make a determination on their own on who is really spewing those "vile lies spewed forth" as you stated above.

Here is a quick link to H.R. 3200 for ya:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

Just heard an interview in which John Dingell (D-MI) compares the citizens at town hall meetings to the ku klux klan.

I don't think I've have ever seen a group of politicians who were SO determined to alienate their constituents and destroy their political careers.

Especially coming from a group of out and out yellow back Socialists..

Obama enlisted ACORN to registered dead people and cartoon characters as voters his candidacy.

Now he has the audacity to stand-up as if he has credible thoughts about the lives and well being of legal America citizens.

Unreal!

Colleen,

Thank you for pointing out my misspelling and the kind words. I do not type for a living. Perhaps you might want to answer or at least think about the questions I asked about the fear of the option as opposed to my spelling.

@ Worm Turned #2.20, and Teri #2.36

I have seen that summary before, and I have to say, checking the bullet points for accuracy is far easier than reading the entire bill, which I've started doing. Every one of the bullets references a section that really is in the bill, and the direct quotes are accurate as well.

So, Teri, what are these fallacies you accuse Worm Turned of? Please, be specific, and include sections to the HR 3200 if you could. To the liberal community here - Why is his comment collapsed? Yes it is long, and many people have seen that list before, but it's TRUE! The original has italicized editorials, which the author's opinion, and the last time I checked, one is allowed to post one's opinion on the internet, without being moderated.

alk0509,

Rather than posting a huge cut and paste myself, I will direct you to a website that debunks this hysteria. I have gone through H.R. 3200 and started a similar list to the one I am directing you to. Yes, the cut and pasted list from Worm points to something in the bill, but the direct quotes are usually not accurate or the section referenced is taken out of context to the overall topic heading. The quotes are usually reworded or clipped to make whatever section it points to seem more insidious. This along with the overuse of CAPITAL LETTERS,which give it an air of urgency, but it is nothing more than paranoid nonsense created for mass distribution.

Please reference the following to get point by point commentary on this copied piece of swill. www.pleasecutthecrap.com

The author was more than welcome to his opinion, but he is not allowed to abuse fact!

Peach,

Explain why Federal election commission report showed that 2/3 of money from Finance, manufacturing, Technology and energy went to Democrats?

Explain why Bill Clinton was working for an Foreign Oil Exploration company and made over $20 Million off the sale of the stock just to clear any conflict of interet for Hillaries ill-fated presidential campaign? Dick Cheney was skewered for less millions he got from Halliburtan.

Since they seem to want to convert America to Europe I would say they are the ones who are unamerican.

Yes, it is just that! Union organizers beat up people who do not agree with the liar, OBAMA. He has all the thugs under his power! Why are there so many workers un-insured? Their companies are FORCED to downsize or go out of business. Thus lay-offs and more people on the street. Give those who do not want or get insurance Free Clinics. Make drug companies give up their large profits for the common good. Leave those who are satisfied with their docs alone.

Obama I am one of the 80% who has health insurance and I am just fine. Leave us alone. Put the people without on an insurance and send them a bill but the rest of us alone.

I am tired of Republicans shouting and blocking free speech. Which is why more Republicans are getting punched in the nose.

No, but be careful, the Dems, Obama to name the biggest one, have discussed the idea that they need to start gathering info on Americans that they label Right wing domestic terrorists, and will be pushing for a bill to allow then to do this very soon! So for the moment we do have free speech, but for how long ? if this current regime is left unchecked? I have never been into politics, basically most of them are self-centered asses and crooks, but as 1 famous person said" Sometimes you are forced to accept the lesser of 2 evils in life", I,ll take the GOP then, at least we had the right to run our businesses, auto dealerships, banks and health decisions for ourselves, and if you want facts the federal deficit was -161 billion under Bush in 2007, thats how much we owe to the world, and right now it is a whopping 1.81 TRILLION dollars! And this liberal clown has only been in office for 7 months! 161 billion after 7 years of bush in office vs 1.843 trillion under O-Bama! Do the math kiddies. Oh and the current "regime" now wants the "ceiling" for the fed deficit RAISED RIGHT NOW, TO further crush our economy and put us in a hole we will never be able to crawl out of! And this fact doesnt even include the cap and trade and the second stimilus pack they are talking about or the energy bill, or the start up for the healthscam bill! Oh but Obama is saving the country with his cash for clunkers , haahahaah, just wait until all those cars get taken back for non-payment because the 4500 went as a downpayment that qualified folks who simply could not afford a new car, just like the damn houses for everyone financing scan that killed our banking infrastructure to start this mess! See the pattern here? If not then your a liberal sheep, and I dont care if you ever wake up, its the real Americans I care about and want to help, the hell with the rest of yas!

Teri,

Your reference to Pleasecutthecrap.com as a "reference" is rather interesting. It is clearly a pro-Democrat Republican attact site. The front page has a replublican emblem with an "X" over it, and promotes Pres. Obama's book. If your argument was to stay away from bias information, then you have failed.

My cut-and-paste was lengthy (sorry other posters, however it did get collapsed), but it at least stuck to the points, without party flag waving. Did it dramatize certain points? Yes! But the truth is that this bill is so large and badly made, that no-one is certain what it means!! Wording that says that certain costs of the bill will not be accounted for as costs of this bill, really typify that point (last 2 sections of 164 and 2002).

I tried to present facts (imperfect - yes), you brought partisan propaganda.

I know that our health system is in trouble, but this plan is NOT the answer.

Fazool,

There are some competing bills. Which one of the bills is Pres. Obama refering to? How about Spkr. Pelosi? The MO of the current Congress is to vote on bills that haven,t been fully vetted. Indeed, some of the bills have not been read!

As for the provisions that are alread in place, bad is bad whether it's already in practice or a new provision.

Why is this health care bill(s) being promoted? On what grounds: better care, more affordability, care for poor/elderly? This legislation will not achieve any of those goals, either short or long term.

Republicans support, vote for, and cheer criminals.

Their leadership represents the base.

http://www.republicanoffenders.com/

The long list of maligned, misunderstood, unfairly accused, politically targeted, completely innocent... Compassionate Conservative Family Values Republican Heroes.

dal,

Yes, we've always been at war with Oceana!

(yawn)

Republicans support, vote for, and cheer criminals.

dal, do you really want to go there? Even after the impeachment of the dem. Gov. Blagojevich of Illinois (the state from which Obama hails), Clinton not having relations with that woman, Feinstein routing a lucrative contract to her husband's firm, etc., etc., etc.?

Again, let's not do that, okay? :)

I say again, American citizens need to take a lesson from POGO. "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.” ... The results of the process fall on the head of the public and he who is recalcitrant or procrastinates in raising his voice can blame no one but himself.

Well said. I am in agreement.

What facts I can manage to get on this "reform" bill(believe me, it isn't easy), the bill is just putting a bandaid on a gushing wound. Fix the root of the problem and the rest should take care of itself.

In an emergency it is difficult to determine if the person seeking help is illegal.

But I think you are right about the the bill we will probably end up with. It will be so diluted by all the malcontents and rebel rousers that it won't accomplish much.

Maybe it's just me but I solve problems one at a time. The first part of health care that need to be resolved is tort reform, until this happens the cost will continue to skyrocket. What's the chance of that happening when Washington is made up of mostly lawyers? ZERO

God i hope your not,,with the weight of the BS you carry the ship would definitly sink. If you are so dam smart why are you not in DC directing this and making it work?

dongle-- spell much?

Earth - Think much?

sdpaulson

Well put….25 pages.

Unintended consequence: Trial lawyers and lobbyists jumping off of tall building….priceless.

I hope all the a-holes that support this patently bad legislation get exactly what you deserve in the end.... nothing.

What a disgusting and inappropriate comment.

sdpaulson. You make a good point. Did you know that the entire bill to develop the U.S. interstate highway system was only 27 pages long?

TITLE IV—AMENDMENTS TO IN

6 TERNAL REVENUE CODE OF

7

1986 8

Subtitle A—Shared Responsibility 9

PART 1—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY 10

SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE 11

HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. 12

(a) IN GENERAL.Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the 13

Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at 14

the end the following new part: 15

‘‘PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES SUBPART A

COVERAGE

. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE. 16

‘‘Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable 17

Health Care Coverage Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

18

‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE 19

HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. 20

(a) TAX IMPOSED.In the case of any individual 21

who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at 22

any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed 23

a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of 1

(1) the taxpayers modified adjusted gross in2 come for the taxable year, over

3

(2) the amount of gross income specified in 4

section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

so no one see a problem with this?

so if you dont have what the government defines as acceptable coverage you will be taxed 2.5% of your adjusted gross income.

so if your adjusted gross income is 50k you are going to be fined 1250.00

can anyone show me in the constitution that says the government my impose a tax fine against you?

and i pulled this right from hr3200

Mav

The Bush thing is a tired argument.....Bush is no longer in office. Continually blaming Bush for all the ills of the country is denying that Obama is not doing as well as everyone thought when they voted for Hopey/Changey.....

hey blank, Saddam had numerous chances to come clean. Let me repeat that. Saddam had numerous chances to come clean. If it wasn't true, he could have let many different countries in to verify it. But he didn't. So war happens.

Obama has had many chances to come clean and explain exactly what it is he wants, and especially, exactly how it will be done and what to expect. He either can't do it, or he doesn't want to tell the details because many who oppose might be spot on. This is his own fault. As with Saddam, Obama has had so many chances to tell the American public exaclty what this plan is about, but for some reason, he just will not lay it out there in black and white.

When someone comes to you with an idea and wants money to invest in it, do you just give them money without getting a well laid plan??? Well neither does the rest of America!!

Correctin deed. We sold the WMD to Saddam to start with. Iraq can only be led by a SADDAM like person. Fear and corruption is all they understand.

Right and so we knew he had them.

LOL,,MCLV did you get that talking point from Hannity, Rush or the other idiot Beck? Tell all the people who have lost their jobs, insurance and homes in just the past few months. Convince them that they need no help. Obama should have stopped listening to the republicans when he saw that they wanted to do the same thing's over that got us into this mess,,he should have closed his ears to all the No's without reasoning behind it. The GOP is on it's last breath and by doing what they are doing now they only bring their stupidly to the front where everyone can see it.

popeye - you sure hit all the liberal talking points. Thanks for being brief. But I think you are wrong about our fiscal mess. If you've been sleeping for the past 7 months I need to let you know it has more than doubled and this health care bill and cap and trade will make it so far out of reach we will never recover. We can't afford the liberal agenda. And we can't afford what this current sack of feces is trying to leave us with. By the way, he is laughed at in other countries. Sure the people are mesmerized by him, just like you are, but the leaders are laughing at us.

The Bush thing is a tired argument

------------------------------------------------------------------

Won't be a TIRED argument as long as the country suffers from what Idiot Bush and the moronic Republicans and their Religious Idiot Conservative supporters did to this country.

Those fighting the Obama/Democrat Health Care Plan are more concerned about "Waterloo" for Obama than they are for health care for the Children of America. These "sickos" would rather see the country go to "hell" - than see Obama and the Democrats succeed.

It isn't the Health Care plan they oppose - it is Obama.

The Democrat Congress needs to "man up". Pass their health care plan - make sure it operates successfully - then make sure Americans know who fought it "tooth and nail".

Americans should take note - be sure which Congressmen failed to support this plan. Target them for removal from office during the next election.

And - take note of the "sickos" shouting and threatening at town meetings. Remind anyone of the "Brown Shirts"? These people are NOT involved in DEBATE which the Town Meetings should be about - they are interested in drumming up support for their campaign to make Health Care Obama's "Waterloo".

These "sickos" are setting a precedent that supporters of Democrats and Obama will adopt for future tactics against Republican candidates.

and Obama is continuing the tradition of lying and reducing our stature with the rest of the world. He may be actually wanting to fix the economy, but he's going about it all wrong due to his ineptitude and the fact that the same people (congress) that created the mess are still in office.

Created the problem?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Republican controlled White House and a Republican Controlled Congress during eight years of incompetent control put us here. And - yes - a few of these Republican Idiot Congressmen are still there - still - sticking to business as usual - trying to "shaft" the American People.

Obama going about it the wrong way? If you are so smart - why do you not run for office?

Well...wmd enough said...Ha! Check out the dates (that would before Bush)!

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

And don't forget the speech from President Clinton on why he bombed Iraq. Google Clinton Iraq war transcript December 1998.

ANGELLADY12000@YAHOO.COM - if you have something to add to the discussion do it here on newsvine. I will not respond to your personal email. It is useless to try to have an intelligent conversation with people who think like you. You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face.

bobr, the only idiots saying and acting stupid are the liberals and Obama. Did you even read that sentence back to yourself?? I've yet to hear any republican tell people to shut up, or call the American public un-american, or Nazi's. The sad part for you is that i can come up with my own talking points. Unlike the same old shi* i hear from the left. And what are you talking about telling all the unemployed and uninsured?? I've said nothing about people not needing help. You should lay off the shrooms before responding. Really, what are you talking about???

{"commentId":8768660,"authorDomain":"dongle"}

dongle

Created the problem?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Republican controlled White House and a Republican Controlled Congress during eight years of incompetent control put us here. And - yes - a few of these Republican Idiot Congressmen are still there - still - sticking to business as usual - trying to "shaft" the American People.

Get the facts straight. Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006. Barney Frank led us into the housing crisis...along with banks and mortgage brokers who gave loans to people who were either: illegal, couldn't prove income and generally weren't qualified to own a home. Politicians on both sides of the aisle have left much to be desired, but the economy was actually doing quiet well under the Bush Administration before the Democrats came back into power. At least my taxes weren't in jeopardy of skyrocketing (unlike this Administration) and our nation was safe. Obama has been parading around apologizing for America (sorry, but I don't need anyone apologizing on my behalf) and is reducing funding to the Military (like a true liberal). What do you think the chances are of even having a nation when Obama gets done forcing his agenda down our throats? In addition, I heard no one being told to "shut up" or being called "un-American" or "Nazis" under the previous Administration. As others pointed out, the Bush argument is old. Obama will be held accountable for his destructive policies.

MCLV - I failed to read your post prior to this, but you hit the nail on the head regarding name calling!

The "Bush thing" will never be old; the deficits, the debt, the corruption, the wars, the incompetence of Katrina, will outlive us all, especially if we don't pass health care reform with a strong public option.

Yup, it's like Bush stole our car and smashed it, and the Republicans keep beating up the guy in the body shop (Obama) trying to fix it. The anger is misplaced.

Here's a question for you....do you think hanging people in effigy with the idiot who did so standing there grinning is OK? We are completely infuriated with righteous anger when it's done in a foreign country to one of our own. That image at the town hall meeting was not too far from the pictures taken of lynched African -Americans not so long ago. People in those photos were smiling too. Think I'm being too extreme? Not really when one considers death threats have been made.

mainegirlinPA,

Before you come in here with your righteous indignation,you should bone up on your American history....It was the Democrats who did the lynching..It was the Republicans who freed the slaves and started the NAACP to help stop the lynchings...So educate your self or pick a subject you know something about...

Because Republicans, big lobbiests, corporate greed, the huge insurance industry and willing to tell any kind of lie.

At least some Liberals have some morality left. The neocon rightwing has none.

HA HA HA HA HA, thanks for the laugh.

"We are worried about "the cow" when it is all about the "Ice Cream". The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade this year. The presidential election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest. I decided we would have an election for a class president. We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote. To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members. We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have. We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot. The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good kids. I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. I had never seen Olivia's mother. The day arrived when they were to make their speeches. Jamie went first. He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place. He ended by promising to do his very best. Everyone applauded and he sat down. Now it was Olivia's turn to speak. Her speech was concise. She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream." She sat down. The class went wild. "Yes! Yes! We want ice cream." She surely would say more. She did not have to. A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? She wasn't sure. Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it. She didn't know. The class really didn't care. All they were thinking about was ice cream. Jamie was forgotten. Olivia won by a landslide. Every time Barack Obama opened his mouth he offered ice cream and 52 percent of the people reacted like nine year olds. They want ice cream. The other 48 percent know: they're going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess."

GregL...I wasn't referring to Democrats or Republicans...I was referring to a shameful act. Is your thought processing ability impaired? You may want to brush up on Civil Rights history yourself. I'm not talking pre Civil War here, hence my use of the words "not so long ago..."

I think I remember the effigy of Sarah Palin being "hung" in CA during the campaigning and the left wing loonies thought it was funny. I myself see no humor in it on either side but this tit for tat crap is annoying.

How about you people just act civilized and forget the I'm democrat, you're republican taunts. We are all Americans, this partisan BS is causing us to divide and we'll surely fall because of it. Think for yourself for once and forget your political registration. You die-hards that only ever vote for your party are the ones who should be ashamed of yourselves. Try a split ticket now and then, you might feel better knowing you voted because of your convictions and not because of your party.

WhoMe

If you have to ask that question - you are not smart enough to understand the answer.

dongle-

Then please enlighten me, won't you?

Before you come in here with your righteous indignation,you should bone up on your American history....It was the Democrats who did the lynching..It was the Republicans who freed the slaves and started the NAACP to help stop the lynchings...So educate your self or pick a subject you know something about...

GregL-

Technically you are right, but by modern definitions the labels have reversed. Over the past century the two parties have swapped their ideologies.

mainegirlinPA,

My though process is working just fine.. What was the shamefull act? People protesting against something they don't want? You made the analogy about African Americans and lynching's and brought rase into the conversation...You didn't dispute it,because you can...Hell Byrd is a prominent Democrat (even though he don't even know what country he is in) and is a member of the KKK...

DSVet,

No i don't think the roles have changed...I am a Republican, I don't believe i am a raciest,and i believe all people have a right to exist...The problem is every time someone protest any thing that Obama proposes they are labeled a racist...I am not,how ever i haven't seen any thing he has done that i would call presidential...

From Around The Block, sorry to disagree with you but the only morality I see from Liberals nowadays is the brand they try to force down your throat and then call you un-American and un-patriotic when you don't accept their point of view! Save your rants for other liberals who care! I don't!

No i don't think the roles have changed...I am a Republican, I don't believe i am a raciest,and i believe all people have a right to exist...The problem is every time someone protest any thing that Obama proposes they are labeled a racist...I am not,how ever i haven't seen any thing he has done that i would call presidential...

GregL,

The roles have absolutely changed between parties in the last century- from leaning liberal and conservative. Lincoln would definitely fall under Democrat today- his ideals were as liberal as you can get.

As far as the Republican party being racist goes- where do you think that the majority of it stems from? The last couple of years all the video from the Republican rallies were full of racism and bigotry. Things like "Barack the Magic Negro" and the display of Curious George dolls representing Obama- there was so much of it that I don't see how anybody could be ignorant of the reasonings at all.

I am not,how ever i haven't seen any thing he has done that i would call presidential...

Obama is not a great president- I'll be the first to admit that, BUT, he is what this country needs as far as world relations goes. Our country's threat levels have gone way down since he became president. We don't have the daily high level threat of being attacked like we used to, we have nowhere near the warnings that we used to, and we don't hear of nearly the amount of threats against our country as we used to. How people can say we were safer during the past 8 years is beyond me.

When his presidency is over, I'd be willing to bet that he'll continue with the world relations. That's what his ultimate legacy will be.

Amen. But he is a community organizer which means he learned to take from the system and redistribute, not to build up the system so all can try to profit from it

Personally, I find it sad that so many people have very little knowledge of what our current system truly does to those with little or no insurance.

btco, why can't the govt. come up with a plan to cover all of those without insurance, regulate the insurance companies, and leave the rest of the population alone??

MCLV - AMEN!!!! The President's so called plan will do nothing but put private insurance out of business.

Donna, The President's plan is not to put insurance companies out of business as you keep screaming. It is to keep people covered - who already have insurance - but develop a plan for those who are uninsured. If those who are insured want to change to the new program they can. There is no plan to make everyone be convered under government insurance. Your rantings have no basis in fact.

btco, give us examples of who/when/where people have died from not getting medical attention. Or are you just spewing the liberal lie I mean line. The problem with BO is that his own words are being used against him. Telling you what you want to hear and btco with drink it.

btco, why can't the govt. come up with a plan to cover all of those without insurance, regulate the insurance companies, and leave the rest of the population alone??

MCLV do you realize that you just made a complete asinine statement. How do you think regulating the insurance companies is not going to effect the population? Leave the rest of the population alone? Just cover the people without insurance and regulate the insurance companies is exactly what this plan is trying to do.

Please explain why you are against what you just recommended.

W. Goin - It is called Freedom of Speech. Not screaming or ranting - which is what you Democrats continue to call it. Please do tell - why is it that there are over 25 million people that could have health insurance through their employers but do not.

Lets focus on why people do not have Health Insurance and not condem the people who do.

Do I believe that Healthcare Insurance needs to be reformed - yes. Are things out of control - yes - Do I want the govenment taking control of my Health Care - No.

Our president has not villified anyone. However, extremists have tried every trick in the book to undermine anything the president suggests. An intelligent discussion on important issues is needed but that isn't what is happening. People like Palin are using fear and misinformation to derail any policy on the table. Screaming words like socialist, communist, death panel etc when I suspect most of the people using those words really couldn't even define them. What happened to the American spirit? What happened to basic civility? If you want to be a part of a discussion on health care or any other important issue, do your homework; address the issues with facts and not emotionally charged buzz words!

btco - I haven't seen anything from you that has any basis... the one liners aren't helping you. Some facts, some citations, something to show us that you actually know what you're talking about would benefit you.

from around, read post 2.20, and come back and talk. If that's all the govt. plan was, then i would have no problem with it. But there is much, much more to it than that. Otherwise it would not be over 1000 pages, now would it.

BTCO, I know exactly what the hospital did to me when we found out my insurance wouldnt cover the birth of my daughter.

While my wife was pregnant, we found out that her doctor did not accept my insurance. Since she was confortable with this doc (we had him when she was pregnant with my son using her insurance from a job she had at that time) and rather than have to find another doc, we decided to pay for it ourselves. When she went into labor and we went to the hospital, I gave them my insurance info. They called my insurance company and the insurance bureaucrat told the hospital (and then me after I got on the phone) that since they didn't cover the prenatal care, they were not going to pay for the delivery (probably considered it a "pre-existing condition"). I asked the hospital how much it would cost if I paid for it myself. They told me 1800 bucks and they can set up payments if needed. I told the insurance person on the phone "never mind I'll take care of it" and hung up on them. The hospital staff was very good about making sure everything was ok with my wife and daughter and they didnt seem to care about how I was going to pay for it until it was time to check out. I gave them the money then and we were done.

This situation was because I didn't get in contact with my insurance company to find out if there were any details I needed to take care of prior to my wife going into labor so the blame is on me and I accept that. The hospital staff didnt care about the money. they cared about my wife and daughter and that was all I was concerned about.

Back on topic.... I've heard that if the bill was approved and implemented, quite a few business owners (mainly small business who are struggling) would drop their employee insurnace coverage in order to save money. After all, the government will take care of the health insurance and the business will save that money. Enough companies and people drop their coverage for the "cheaper" government coverage and bye bye insurance companies. Now we have national health care.

Who cares how laod you are, it is still your right. Well at least it use to be.

Troubled, and don't forget Pelosi the one that has to have her jet to travel where the he-- she wants to and calls the Americans Nazis and other choice words..

What I find ironic is the last statement in the new article by obama. When talking about private insurance competing with government insurance, he stated:

"They do it all the time," he said. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. ... It's the Post Office that's always having problems."

The government has not set up one thing that has not gone over budget or it's share of fraud. Politicians can't keep their hands out of the kitty, and that is why medicare and social security are in trouble now. The postal service was set up as a "private" company, similar to what they want to do with the insurance exchange, and look at the problems the postal service is having. Obama just confirmed what the protesters of the health plan have been saying with this comparison. He says the new system cannot add to the deficit over the ten years, but does not say how much it will add initially, and at what point does it break even. If it initially runs a deficit of half a trillion, do you really think our politicians of either party will not make changes or that it will truly break even at the ten year mark? Nothing they have done yet has met that goal.

bluewildcat

Our president has not villified anyone. However, extremists have tried every trick in the book to undermine anything the president suggests.

So obama making statements against the employees at AIG in reference to their contractual bonuses with acorn busing people to their homes in protest is ok. The employees, (not the ceo's) did nothing wrong, and were being paid bonuses that they were entitled to under the law were vilified by obama and the democrats in congress, even though dodd, a democrat put an amendment in the law allowing the bonuses, making villains out of American citizens. His comments that the people protesting the health proposals were right wing radicals, and the other terms he and his staff have used to describe/dismiss them is ok? It's ok for the liberals to protest, like the gays in California when the gay marriage law was voted down, but American Citizens, whether they be Republicans, independents or democrats are not allowed to do the same thing when they feel the politicians are ignoring them. He can set up a snitch line at the white house, using taxpayer dollars, to gather information on private citizen's emails and thoughts and that is ok? It was ok for the democrats to organize and protest President Bush, but it's not ok for anyone to protest them?

The bottom line is the majority of TAXPAYERS are very concerned that the current proposals will increase taxes, decrease health insurance they have now, and put our future generations into tax slavery. There is no reason to rush this through. True reform would include tort reform, but the president and most of the politicians, who are attorney's will not include this in the bill. These issues are why people are upset.

We need term limits on congress. Vote everyone out, both parties, in 2010 and 2012 and take back our country.

All Americans can get insurance there are all kinds of private insurance companies out there. What should not happed is to punish those who have good insurance through jobs that they have worked are to get. Under the new plan we will be punished for obtaining these benefits.

Under the Orwellian header of "Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage," the "Limitation On New Enrollment" section of the bill clearly states:

"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the legislation becomes law.

So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won't be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

Springback; What you are stating is not true. You will be able to change private coverage and you will be able to leave a company and still buy indiviual plans from private carriers. That is fact. But, those who do not currently have coverage - some because of pre-existing conditions - will have a program they can buy. Don't keep spreading your lies because that is all they are.

Read the bill, that is straight from the bill not lies except what is being put out to the public

W. Goin, what's going to happen when the government forces all the insurance co. out of business because they can under cut them in cost?? Now what do you have?

A single payer plan with Doctors and Hospitals being private. Just the very thing we should have now.

If we have single payer, government public option, whatever, does the government cover the cost of med school for the doctors? I believe that would amount to an average of $200,000 a doctor, not counting specialists? If not, where are we getting these doctors who will work for the government? I'm just curious since they are telling us that no additional debt will be incurred or cuts will be made.

In the military, I've dealt with doctors who work for the government. There is a reason why they work for the government and dont have a private practice. They suck and cant be sued by thier patients (military personnel).

Anyone who thinks that COBRA is expensive won't BELIEVE how expensive the 'free' insurance is going to be.

rickyg2--when has the government ever decided they've done enough? this is the first step to taking over the health care system....in the news just this morning, Obama was singing the praises of the Canadian system....and what do they have pray tell?

If we adjust Medicaid regulations it would solve the problem. We need to expand on the qulaifications and usage of it. Universal Healthcare is not an option. It would be moe exoensive then all our combined wars. Again, immigration is an enormous concern in relation the healthcare. We cannot insure our own let alone people who do not belong here.

Don't you mean that we will be required to take care of their families?

Actually, the President said Canada's health program would NOT work here....we need a different approach. My husband and I have very good coverage thru his employer and are far from wealthy but we are more than willing to pay a bit more to help insure everyone. The "I -got-mine-to-hell-with-you" approach doesn't seem too American to me. The center will not hold....1,000,000 people a year filing bankruptcy because of medical debt...18,000 die each year in this country from lack of access to medical care. These are not just numbers...they are human tragedies.

it seems there is enough of that to go around on both sides, no?

Yes, I have waded through HR3200 and my not expert (but I do work in the Health Care Industry) opinion is that the bill is specifically vague. What I mean is, that it sites specific things but then is so vague that it leaves too much up for interpretation. What does the government always do with that, well they use it to whatever advantage they want. So really the problem is that we really don't know what this bill will do and I for one do not like that at all. An example is at the bottom of pg 50 where it talks about discrimination in health care. The way I read this, no one will be excluded from receiving health care in the US. Does this mean that all the illegals and future illegals or even visitors can just come here and receive care for free? I can't find anything in the whole document that says otherwise. I wish we could provide for the whole world but come on that is just not reality.

Do you have the money to pay your own medical bills if you are laid off and lose your health insurance? Do you have the money to pay for your spouse or your children if they lose coverage too, or would you have to declare bankruptcy or sell your house to cover bills over a certain amount? If not, then maybe you should actually READ the bill which could *gasp* help you and your family and then make up your own mind whether it contains all the asinine things the voice on the radio said it does and told you to repeat. Here it is: (it's a pdf which may load slowly)

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/AAHCA-BillText-071409_2.pdf

First, does anyone know where I can get a brief outline of what the president is proposing? I have yet to see a total description of the plan. Second, we are all paying too much for health insurance- it's a rip-off. When your employer pays, it cuts into profits and wages and the spending economy. All the money is going to the insurance companies (AIG) who subsequently are overpaid and living high off the hog-you. We should not be paying for illegals health care. Send a bill to Mexico for that- they have some decent piles of oil money and drug money. If I wasn't under my wife's employer policy, we would be paying big time. Why is it so much? Tell me please. Doctors don't make that much and they perform a vital excellent well trained service. Same with nurses and other health care people. Where is the money going and why?

The money is going to overpaid insurance company bureaucrats, and they are repaying us by spending millions, if not billions, of dollars on ad campaigns, lobbyists, and talking heads. They've now managed to brainwash a large percentage of Americans into thinking our current system is just fine, oh and it's number one, and we're still number one, even know our dollar is worth about 80 cents on the euro, we spend twice as much on healthcare, eight times as much on defense, ect ect. It goes on and on. You people need to wake up. The social contract needs to be repaired if we are going to continue being competative in the world. Drop this bull@!$%# about the needy being bums. There are leeches in every facet of society, not just the f*cking poor.

Jake, dont forget the lawyers. Their shennanigans costs the insurance companies and doctors a lot of money that we have to pay for. By the way, you realize that a high percentage of our wonderful congress (and president) are lawyers?

My insurance rates have not doubled since 1999 and I am counting both what I pay as well as what my employer pays.

Mine has along with the four people I employ!!!!

and blah blah blah blah blah. Only problem is how are we going to pay for it, or should I say how are those of us who will be on the hook for it going to pay for it? Am guessing you're not in that category right idiot?

Lets see, I have four employees that make $50k and up a year...yeah I don't pay taxes.

Oh I see, now you can shift the cost of your employees insurance premiums onto the taxpayers. It's always those who will benefit from this plan who are its biggest proponents. Strange how that works.

Why is that strange? Maybe your employer would be able to give you an increase in pay or a bonus if he was not giving more and more to the insurance companies.

Why don't you do yourself a favor and read the plan.

Great, then any raise I get will be negated in higher taxes. How can I lose with this kind of logic being thrown at me?

I have read the plan. One of the things that does bother me is on page 16, if you lose your coverage you can buy another plan"if it meets the minimum requirements." If it doesn't you have to go on the public option.Who decides the minimum?

By the way, I don't have time to read the plan, it's not my job to read the plan and those whose job it is think it's dumb to read the plan. I hear obama speak about the plan and that's enough for me to know I want no part of his plan. Especially when he can't give a straight answer on how we're going to pay for his plan.

Paul, you will net more money because your rates will go down more than the taxes you pay.

I'm confused at the repubs concern over our countries finances now. Why not the concern when Bush raised spending while leading us into a worthless war?

It should be kind of hard for Obama supporters to talk about spending. Just today Geithner has asked congress to raise the debt ceiling.

Paul,

What you said is the prime reason why there is civil discourse on this issue. Educate yourself on the topic. Make time to read it. It is "your" job to inform yourself, not rely on misinformation from others. Just like when you get stopped by a cop for a traffic violation: ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Speaking of "tools", what's "W" doing these days?