Isn't Massachuetts going broke trying to fund their Public health care option?

Couldn't agree more, Chris. Obama must stand firm on a public option--without it, it is business as usual. Obama has a mandate from the people. Enough compromising, this should be about what is best for the American people in the long run.

Why doesn't the gov't fix the VA system first and then the American people may have more confidence in a public option. Gov't needs to prove that it is competent before the American people will have any confidence in them.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. Health care needs reform but not by looking to the government.

Congress might try some of these ideas before they jump into another unsustainable program: tort reform discouraging frivolous lawsuits, loan forgiveness for primary care providers addressing the growing shortage, a focus on preventative medicine at low cost community clinics rather than at expensive and overcrowded ERs, increase the number of mid-level providers like PAs (physician assistants) and NPs (nurse practitioners) who are very cost effective, allow insurance to be purchased across state lines, personal responsibility (sin taxes or other incentives to bring some accountability), wipe out fraud and waste in both Medicare/Medicaid and private insurance, streamline the claims process and improve the accuracy of records by implementing EMRs, release Medicare claims history identifying efficient providers, research the co-op plan in currently in congress, invest in tax credits to help consumers purchase coverage or allow deductions for the cost of insurance, look into tax-exempt medical savings accounts, strive to prevent costly hospital readmissions and finally regulate health insurance companies themselves more closely.

All these things add to our ridiculous healthcare system in one way or another. Some may prove to be more profitable than others but at least now you can't say that there's nothing else on the table. Economist Adam Smith said "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest". If the gov't wants to invest billions of dollars they should invest it in the theory of supply and demand and removing the barriers to a successful free market.

Massachusetts does not have the public option (unless you count their SCHIP equivalent). They have a co-op system, which is why it's so expensive. Massachusetts is actually a great example of why we MUST have a public option for reform to work. Ditch the public option and go with co-ops, and the whole country will be like Massachusetts.

The President doesn't need one single republican vote to pass this poor reform he is pushing.

I say stop these clowns from doing anything with our healthcare. They continue to lie about their agenda. Look who is writing this stuff, Pelosi, Ried, Frank, and Obama. It is all just a liberal takeover of a system that is not working quite right but is not broken to the point that we need our idiots in government taking it over. STOP THEM NOW!! Make them sit down and work together and reform some of things that make it too expensive but leave us alone to deal with our own healthcare.

If the president is stupid enough(which he is) to keep the public option it will be his end and the end of the democrats for the next 20 years. So please...by all means..keep the option so we can laugh at you when you get whipped by the American populace.

If we accept the President's healthcare plan we will all be doomed. Fix what we already have.

Karyn:

Have you paid any attention to the polls? Obama does not have a mandate for government run health care. The vast majority of Americans DO NOT support this nor do they want it! The mandate comes from the extreme left, liberal socialists and welfare supporters only - the fringe element. There is a desire for reform - but there is no mandate for the government running our lives and deciding who lives and dies.

Americans are starting to get a very clear picture of this Administration and doesn't like what it sees!

Giving in now is like throwing the towel in halfway through the first round in a boxing match. The opponents of health care reform are purposefully misinformed by the likes of the Fox Noise clowns and the racist in chief, Rush Limbaugh. Their listeners are vocal parrots, nothing more, and they should be given the consideration they are due, which is zero. Forget bipartisanship, the Republicans have.

After a few years when the public option and health care reform is popular, the Republicans will look like the health insurance company sycophants that they are.

Coops are the best option. coops are to health care what credit unions are to banking. Local, consumer oriented, independent. Credit unions are thriving because they fill a need not addressed by the large mega-banks. Health care coops will fill a need not addressed by large health insurance companies.

Why do they keep saying 50 million Americans are uninsured. This figure has illegal aliens factored in , people who chose not to have insurance, and those who have failed to sign-up for programs that are already offered and qualify for. When will the lawmakers really look at the issue and open the insurance market so people can shop from state to state for their policy. America needs to see that both the democrats and republicans are the issue, they only want to solve the issue where it won't hurt their ability to take pac money from the insurance companies. Wake up America!

Yes actually, we have been paying attention to polls. The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll says 76% are in favor of the public option. The CBS poll puts support at 72%. Quinnipiac is more conservative, showing 69% support for the public option. What polls are you reading?

crybabies...the number of uninsured is very large no matter how it's calculated. my wife will be one of them when our COBRA runs out next month. she had a tiny tumor removed from her breast 6 years ago and so now she cannot get coverage from ANY private insurance company. you think we're crybabies??? go to church. learn about human decency.

Right on. It strikes me as funny that most of the people who are so concerned about not paying for poor, sick people claim, out of the other side of their mouths, to be good Christians.

joe

Coops are the best option.

They are certainly the ones the health insurance companies want. Why? They would be totally insignificant as a competitor. To make a difference, the option needs to be available to everyone, not just limited to a locality or even a state.

The moderate Democrats and Republicans are doing exactly what we should expect them to do. They're looking for a compromise that would result in the best option for America... Wow, that's cool.

Howard Dean and other extremists are trying frantically to pull this thing apart again. This shouldn't be about politics, it should be about getting it right for America. Compromise means giving a little and getting a little. To my amazement, that may be exactly where we're headed.

The Blue Dog Democrats and moderate Republicans in the House and the "Gang of Six" in the Senate - you have my respect. Don't let up one little bit. Get rid of the garbage that doesn't work and give us the best reform you can.

Who wants to have a HC system like Canada? If you do you need to read this.

Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

Spectator99:

What's wrong??? Party let you down??? You don't need 1 republican to pass crap government health care now do you?! You're problem is your own party. How does it feel to see that yes, even though we are the party that generally does not make protesting and demonstrations our priority like those of you on the left (guess you have more time on your hands than we do), we have mobilized in great force as we choose not to let our country go down a socialist path anymore than we already have.

So is you aren't getting your way, sorry, but this is called thinning of the herd and even though the Dems are in control - they will not win against the vast majority of the American citizenry!!

Coops are the best option.

Coops are the worst option. They will not lower the cost of health insurance. If there is no public option only the insurance companies will benefit.

GO HOWARD DEAN!

My wife and I found out that, after paying over $700 a month for years of insurance with Blue Cross, they had a tendency to NOT pay our medical costs when a case of melanoma arose. We found out all too late that the company had refused payment after payment -- and we got stuck with what should have been their bill.

WE NEED AN OPTION to get away from the crooks in the insurance biz!!

Joe Mota, re-read my post. I never said I was against healthcare for all. I stated that if congress looks at the real issues they would be able to put a bill on the table that will work for all. Make it so real competition can exist. If Michigan has a better more cost effective plan than Ohio then people from Ohio should be able to get that same plan. All I hear is the GOP and fearmongers are stopping this bill from passing-WRONG the DEMOCRATS have a SUPER MAJORITY they can pass anything they want. Direct you angst at them! And finially I take exception to your statement about human decency you do not know me and if your such a decent person then pay for your wife to be insured instead of looking for a handout. I'm unemployed and make sure my family is taken care of I don't go looking for someone else to do it. Get a second job or a third if that is necessary.

You are fooling yourself if you think a public option is what is best for Americans..

Everyone keeps talking about the rest of the world and their National Health Care systems. Look at thoes peoples tax rate.. Do you really want 50 to 75 cents of EVERY Green back you make to goto taxes?

Lets not forget that a Democratic Senator said this weekend, that the public option DOES NOT and NEVER HAS had the votes to pass the Senate. The Public Option is and always has been dead in the Senate. They know it and have been trying to come up with something that would pass there branch of gvmnt. HERE is the kicker to all the libss here....

You DO NOT need a single republican vote. Everyone knows this, but the liberals. You seem to think that the republicans have the votes to stop something, and therefor it is the republicans fault that nothing gets passed. Hello some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee, cause its not the republicans that are stopping this. Its the Dems.

So if someone doesn't share your view they're a traitor.

As an investor and employer, this President has created fear relative to my risks of making deals and hiring people. Obama health care, regulations, and higher taxes do not provide incentives for small business to hire. We do 70% of the hiring. You people need us more than we need you. Currently I spend more time with my children and will wait out the 4 or 8 years for now. We will take less risk for now, so no jobs for you!

I am sorry, but this is a reality, demonstrated over and over again. The most regulated decades (with Lefty governments) were the 30s and 70s. These two decades were the most economically disappointing.

When the economy eventually recovers, the performance will be very underwhelming.

Until I feel good and have an incentive to be creative (5,000,000 small businesses) then no jobs or raises for you. You need my risk taking and brains.

Obama has NO mandate, merely a simple slight majority in the election. The MAJORITY of thinking, taxpaying Americans DO NOT WANT a public option. Why? Government run health care does not work, anywhere!! The government decides who gets what care, bureaucrats, not doctors, make the decisions. Taxes go up and more people get laid off so their employer can pay them. No one goes to college to become a doctor/nurse/pharmacist because they are all effectively employed by the government and paid by it, at whatever rate it wants. Plumbers end up making more.

The democratic credo - reinforced by the Obamaites - "From each according to their ability - To each according to their need" only fosters laziness and the expectation that the government should do it all.

JoeMota-One other thing if you can't get insurance for your wife due to a preexisting condition, you should be contacting you state rep or congressman to make sure they add this clause to any bill they pass.

And to revelwoodie-you also do not know my views so keep your lame post to yourself. Or since your so concerned for others why don't you and Joe get together and solve the issue insteaded of tearing down others that have a different view than yours.

Patrick J-Finally a post from someone with a triple digit IQ great post.

I don't think the white house would even be considering abandoning the public plan unless the political wind had shifted. There is one hard and fast rule in politics, there is no powerwithout a majority and power is the main objective. Neither the president or either of the party's gives a rats ass about anything else. They can wipe away a tear and sniffle a bit but they are nothing but power hungry scoundrels. this is about controlling more of the economy and the money that will give them more political clout. We will not be recipients we will be the victims of the government plan.

I can send a letter anywhere in the US for 44 cents. Try sending the same letter via private enterprise corporation, FedEx, et. el., and it will cost more than five dollars.
Medical Care overhead expenses for Medicare are well below 5%, but for private health insurance companies it is over 30%.

Medical reform without a public option is just more of the same bull$hit we have been fed for decades.

Arther-the USPS had a 7 billion dollar deficit last year and is on pace to have a bigger deficit this year. Who do you think pays for that deficit????? Come on see if you can come up with a better example than that!

crybabie, I'm paying $900/month for converage through COBRA and would love the option of continuing to pay $900/month for coverage, but the insurance companies do not consider my wife to be a particularly good profit potential, so they deny coverage. you republican a$$holes are just too eager to assume that anyone who dosen't swallow your party's lies wants a handout. The republcian scam would result in a rush by insurance companies to the state with the least regulation and consumer protection, where they'd let operators like Bernie Madoff and Charles Keating sell health insurance. And they'd push the responsibility for pre-existing conditions off to the states. That's the stupidest plan anyone's thought of in years.

Patrick J - 1970's that would have been mostly, Nixon and Ford - Hmm!

I am Retired Army and getting a disability from the VA and next year will be forced to get Medicare. Try to find a Doc who takes new patients 1st of all and second, I would not have my dog treated at a VA hospital even if I had a dog. I pay my own Health care and still work in order to have that privilege.

Funny how Obambino has droped saying that every AMERICAN should be insured to saying all people should have Health Insurance. Gee, ya think he needs them Mexicans to pump up his 2012 run for the Pres try which by the way I hope he is not elected and has to go on MEDICARE himself. Hell, may not even be a USA then, I hear North, Central, and South America are gonna merge together or so one wise Latino gal says.

Without the public option, this attempt at reform will not deliver what this country needs. Undoubtedly, the lack of a public option now would derail it for many decades to come.

Hopefully, this is more about politics than anything and when the reconciliation between the house and senate bills happens, the public option will find its place in the final bill.

History shows that America always does better economically with a Democrat in office. Republicans love to spend and we can thank them for the mess we are working through now. The public option should stand.

I'm really curious, though why any honest small business owner would be against it when they are one of the main supporters of this bill. Polls even show owners preferring the public option. Do you not want lower insurance premiums for your workers? Or are you just looking out for the large corporations who continue to make money off of insurance companies?

Do you even offer your employees insurance? And I mean good insurance, not the kind that is practically worthless like so many do.

Joe Mota- I'm a democrat so what do you think of that. Next time stop and think before you call someone names and before you post. Also read post 1.27 where I state, "write you congressman/rep. Have them make sure that pre-existing conditions are covered." Now I can understand your anger just don't direct it at me.

Joe Mota

You keep saying that you cannot find health insurance for your wife due to a small tumor in her breast many many years ago.

Why is it my Uncle can get health insurance when he had full blown Lymphoma(sp) cancer 3 years ago. They almost didnt catch his cancer in time and had to take some major risks to save his life. He now has some heart damage from the Chemo and Radiation that removed/killed his cancerous cells. His total health bill was pushing 2 million. He just changed companies and got a new policy for him and his family.

He has to pay higher mthly costs due to his condition, but he can get insurance. SO if my uncle who had cancer can get insurance, your wife who had a tumor removed can get it.

Joe - I vote republican. Go ahead and call me an a$$hole. Why don't you go get another job and pay for your own medical needs? It is not my problem!! I'm tired of you a$$hole liberals begging for more and more all the time. This healthcare plan that this administration is trying to force upon us will run this country into the poor house. We can't afford it.

By the way, Bernie Madoff was a very good friend to a lot of democrats. He bought them off on a regular basis. Either that or they were just dumb a$$holes. Which do you think?

Hopeful

Most people attend the wedding ceremony before they celebrate at the reception. Bipartisanship is a lost cause on this issue and everyone knows it. GWB passed tax cuts for the rich on a straight up and own vote. You may want to reserve your celebrating until after the vote is taken. And, I hope they keep it open for hours like the Republicans did for the Medicare Part D vote. Payback is hell, ain't it?

Jeremy, your uncle's probably in a state that forbids insurance to deny coverage due to pre-existing condition. my wife's not. coverage rules vary from state to state. that's part of the reason we need reform.

Crybabies, when I saw the term "handout" in your post, I assumed you're a republican because it's part of the standard right wing lexicon...I did write my reps regarding health care reform and told them I support the concept of health care coops.

If you want people to show some respect and courtesy toward you, don't accuse them of looking for a handout unless you have good reason.

Partick J

You people need us more than we need you.

And where is your business again?

Joe Mota-If your looking for the gov to take care of healthcare you are looking for a handout. I stand by my statement!

Get it right! This is not a Republican issue! This is a "We The People" issue and includes core Americans who are Republicans, Democrats, Independents and those with no party affiliation. What we all share in common is that we recognize a need for cost-effective healthcare reform through the private sector but we don't want Obamacare or any shape or form of it, nor do we want government intervention or takeover of our private insurance, nor do we want to insure illegal aliens and people who can, but won't, buy insurance and we don't want additional taxes. The majority of the country has spoken loudly and said "We Don't Want Obamacare"! How about getting over it? Howard Dean is a worthless moron so he can rant all he wants to but this issue is going to be determined by "We The People" and we have spoken - and will continue to do so.

The blue dogs are traitors to what? Not every democrat is a leftist liberal. Many are moral and fiscal conservatives from the south and are voting as their constituents would want them to. (Many also oppose abortion) And the health care opposition is not just a republican thing. I know a LOT of democrats who oppose running up trillions more in debt to fund free healthcare for everyone. Many AMERICANS across the spectrum are opposed to this bill (and the other grow-the-government socialist bills).... Just like some republicans are more conservative than others, democrats are as well... Many don't believe in Obama's liberal agenda and when pressed by their constituents, they are baling. Nothing wrong with that. They owe the people more than they owe their party. (true of republicans, too).

Spectator99 - GWB passed tax cuts for all Americans. After they went through there was more money coming into the federal treasury than ever before in history. President Obama is spending money we don't have with the only way to ever pay for everything is going to be tax the majority of Americans.

Patrick J

I am sorry, but this is a reality, demonstrated over and over again. The most regulated decades (with Lefty governments) were the 30s and 70s. These two decades were the most economically disappointing.

You may be the smartest risk-taker in the country, but you need to check your facts a little more carefully. The 30s were precipitated by the Great Depression which happened on (R) Herbert Hoover's watch. It did take FDR (Dem) several years to correct that mess. The 70s were mostly (R) Nixon/Ford years (oh yes they were great). And, who can forget the (R) Reagan tax cuts of the 80s, which created the massive federal debt that we have never been able to fix. I seem to remember that we started to pay some of that debt down during the 90s...Clinton (Dem) decade.

BallsForCongress.Org says it is time to end this failed experiment in two party politics. The Democrats in office have no balls and must go. All of them. Federal, state and local. We will find people who actually want to implement real change to replace them.

There WILL be a public option at the end of it all, so rest on your pillows, Obama supporters!

To all the true blue liberals that feel defeated and betrayed, not to worry, just go home get out your Bon Jovi cd and listen to blaze of glory. That is the message the rest of the country would like to send to you.

@ Arthur-379160

"I can send a letter anywhere in the US for 44 cents. Try sending the same letter via private enterprise corporation, FedEx, et. el., and it will cost more than five dollars."

You realize that the U.S. Postal Service loses money every year. This is an official release from the USPS:

"USPS Reports $2.8 Billion Year-End Loss — Declining Mail Volume Cited (pdf)
The Postal Service concluded fiscal year 2008 with a net loss of $2.8 billion as the national economic slowdown lowered mail volume and as the Postal Service bore additional costs mandated by the Postal Act of 2006.

The loss occurred despite more than $2 billion in cost-cutting measures that included the use of 50 million fewer work hours compared to the previous year. Meanwhile, the on-time delivery of First-Class mail reached record levels for FY 08. The year-end results were presented during today’s meeting of the Postal Service Board of Governors."

The government should not be in competition with private industry in any sector of the economy.

Medical Care overhead expenses for Medicare are well below 5%, but for private health insurance companies it is over 30%.

And how is Medicare doing these days financially? Not very good -

And Social Security funding isn't the only time bomb. Sloan notes that "when it comes to problems, Medicare makes Social Security look like a walk in the park, even though at about $510 billion this year, it's far smaller. Not only are Medicare's financial woes much larger than Social Security's, but they're also much more complicated. . . . Medicare is more convoluted, because the health-care system is much more complex than Social Security. Which, when you think about it, involves only money."

This can be found at - http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/ContrarianChronicles/social-security-crunch-coming-fast.aspx?page=2

No more social programs run by our government please, thanks!

Crybaby: joemota called you a Republican A$$HOLE... I can only infer, then, that he is a Democrat (or Independent)?

I guess, then, the most shocking thing about what he said in all his posts was telling you to "go to church to learn about human decency".

When was the last time a Democrat brought religion into an argument to support their views?!

The world as we know it is ending!!!!

"But I think we will have a public option at the end," Dean said.

What Howard really meant to say that in the end the public will have no option!

This debate is not about options, they are now demonizing Insurance companies, when they started it was the doctors who were ripping off the system, then Big Pharma. But they all came to the table and said they'd play ball with the bully. So Big Insurance isn't going to talk to him, should they come around to their senses, who will be the next Bad Guy that the administration picks out of the crowd to blame for the ills of a system that government has no business nosing into anymore than they already have.

RECALL THEM ALL!!!

I honestly wonder if the pull back has more to do with the fact that the economy is not getting better, as projected. I wonder if he's realizing that this reform could bankrupt us... or sink us further. Ruining any chance for reelection. It's all about timing. Maybe it's a better time to focus on our econimic situation.

a public option isn't needed to acheive the goals obama states, its just something he wants.

ive heard him state all the goals he wants his reform to accomplish. For each goal you can state after it, "is a public option neccessary to acheive this goal?". The answer is no its not.

Competition - Public option not needed to do this. Open up state lines for health insurance, provide incentives for health insurers to provide affordable plans, do what you plan to do anyways and require that everyone be insured. Still can set up your health exchanges without a government option. This is a good idea so people can "window shop" for a plan and at the same time it will make it competitive.

Allow for pre-existing conditions - Don't need a public option to make this happen.

All a government option will do is cost the government money when it's not needed. If it's the goal to get affordable coverage out to millions add the regulations to make the industry. If you're going to mandate that everyone has insurance you don't need a government option either.

The health bill has to do three things:

1. Cover everyone affordably

2. Be deficit neutral

3. Reduce the growth of health care costs to approximate the growth rate of median income.

It will take enormous work from the president to convince me we can get to 1 and 3 without the public option. I don't see how that happens. I also don't see how the president can have 60 seats in the Senate and a huge majority in the House and still allow Max Baucus (1 man) to give away the Senate majority in negotiations. This is disgraceful.

Sarah's man, I note a tad of sarcasim in your comment. Problem with his statement was I actually am a Democrat, and go to church. Thats the problem with weak minded indivduals they never have a constructive idea to submit.

schwannomin

i would say otherwise. real effort needs to be put forth unlike any previous administrations, which i think obama would do, but a government option isn't needed to acheive the goals obama has put out.

JH

GWB passed tax cuts for all Americans.

Yea, and I guess it is just a coincidence that income distribution is more lopsided in this country than at any time since 1928.

By the way, 98% of Americans have received a tax cut from this President. Oh, maybe you are in the other group.

yeah im middle class and i get an extra 15 bucks a month..big deal. just enough for all of the unhealthy americans to get an extra pizza for their family, then complain about wanting a government health insurance option.

Yes, Cry Babies. Sarcasm.

JOE MOTA jumps to the assumption that you're a "Republican A$$hole" and also assumes you do not go to church with no facts to back him up, yet we're supposed to believe he has the ability to reason that "a public option" is the cure to our healthcare problems?

Methinks he's just another lemming that will mindlessly believe everything "his people" tell him to believe without even trying to decide for himself.

Cry Babies I commend you for being a Democrat that obiously has a (working) mind of his own. We need more leaders and less followers on all sides. The "joe mota's" of the world and their quick (mis) judgements, don't do any of us any good.

I'm with Dean, a public option is essential. The Republicans are allways whining to leave it to business, business knows best, or "self regulate. That is all BS. Unregulated business lead to the excessive greed that destroyed our economy. Business, including the insurance bussiness does not care about Americans; they would deny life-saving care just like they will export your job.

I want a public option to control costs; I already spend more on health care than on housing, food, or energy. If I retire before 65 and Medicare kicks in, insurance premiums will be half my budget, costing more than everything else combined.

If my doctor and hospital would charge me the same amount as they accept in payment for insurance, I could pay my own way; but my doctor bills for tripple what insurance pays and I would pay triple without insurance, just like I pay triple when my insurance refuses to pay. Hospitals are even worse, charging people who don't have insurance as much as 10 times what insurance would be expected to pay.

The system we have to pay for health care is uncontrolled greed, fed by the ability to threaten your life if you don't pay what they demand.

We already have government run healthcare. It's called Medicare and Medicaid. Had it

for over 40 years. Except it's going broke. As early as next year. Government has run it

alright...into the ground. Building on that successfull track record, it is now offering to

take over control of even more of our health care.

We now have 40+ Trillion dollars in accumulated debt and unfunded future obligations.
It's not healthcare that's bankrupting the country-it's the government. The Federal
government getting into the healthcare business with Medicaid and Medicare is
what drove prices up. That's basic economics. If the government came up with a program
to pay for a lawyer for everyone who couldn't afford it would you not be surprised if legal
fees went up and the avalability of lawyers went down?

Native Orgonian is smoking something

No. Lazy, shiftless people who want every other tax payer in the world to foot their bills while they drive around in yuppie mobiles and etc. are the traitors.

crybabie, I support the concept of health care coops. these are member owned, not government. I don't support a government run system, but I support health care reform, with the public option being health care coops.

We should get the same Health coverage and retirement as the Politicians... They are not better then us, they are not above us... But they do think they are.......................

There needs to be health care reform but the democrats idea of a public health option is nothing but socialism. The democrat congress cannot properly run Medicare. They, along with various democrat presidents, have raped Social Security which originally was never to be used for anything but social security payments. They cannot even manage their own lunch room. What do you think they are going to do if they get their hands on health insurance? Do you honestly think they are going to do anything but mismanage that as well. If you think they will be successful you are frighteningly naive, as are most Obama democrats. You really need to study your history before you jump off that cliff with the other lemmings.

This will never be a partisan effort. Too many on the right would like to take the credit so they discredit.

Thanks Sarah, I appreciate that some people do actually understand that we do have minds of our own.

The majority of the nation want a 'public option'..It is the knuckle draggers in congress like Conrad who are opposed because they are owned by healthcare /Insurance companies..Conrad has taken $2.4 million from their lobbyists in the past 2 years!

I do not think Obama is backing up on the public option''think Sebeliuos gaffed but if the pressure is not kept on the fools in congress it will go away..Call them 1.800.828.0498 or 1.866.220.0044 Tell them to think hard about 2010 and that screen door hitting them in the butt!

Reagan:

What polls are you looking at? Americans DO NOT want government run health care. Why do you think Obama's numbers are tanking?!

I hate to be the one to bring this up, but here goes:

He have had a co-op option in the past. G.I.s who were returning from Europe had been exposed to early forms of universal health care and saw how it COULD work. What resulted was Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plans.

These were established on a state by state basis (with a few states having more than one Plan.) They were not-for-profit (slightly different from non-profit) and were coordinated by a Blue Cross Association in Chicago who coordinated coverage between Plans (insured in New York and injured in Los Angeles) and tried to keep coverages between Plans as similar as possible. They BCBS Plans were heavily regulated since the states regulated them as BOTH a not-for-profit and as an insurance company.

At their peak, BCBS Plans insured about 70% of Americans with health insurance. They negotiated drug prices with drug companies, procedure costs with hospitals and based physician payment on Usual and Customary Rates (UCR). They were transparent and notified clients of every charge made by the medical system. They really went a long, long way to hold costs down.

I worked for the Chattanooga Plan in the 1970's. We paid out overhead (administrative loading) by processing Medicare claims for the government and by running a small hospital/clinic accounting system. We were restricted by law from making a profit so it was not unusual to stop billing the government for processing Medicare claims in June or July each year. Our overhead was zero. That is, for every dollar we took in in premiums, we paid out a dollar in claims. Not every Plan was that efficient, but most were at least in single digits. (The administrative loading for for-profit insurance companies currently runs in the high 40%'s.)

But the drug companies hated BCBS. They felt they deserved more profits (8,000% profit on a drug is not unusual these days.) The hospitals also wanted more profit and were really incensed about BCBS auditing their costs. BCBS also was instrumental in reporting a great deal of Medicare fraud by hospitals and physicians to the government. Physicians, like the children in Lake Woebegone" all felt they were above average, and deserved more than the average payment. But the worst of all were the for-profit insurance companies who complained incessantly about an "unlevel playing field" where they could simply not turn a profit and compete meaningfully against a not-fot-profit. Carter sided with the BCBS Plans and their cost-containment.

But when Reagan began to run, the insurance companies, the drug companies , they physicians and the rest of the for-profit medical industry heavily backed Republicans. When Reagan won, he repaid them in spades. The Reagan administration created a "special requirement" that not-for-profit insurance companies (other than ones owned by an industrial component [letting Kaiser and Deere off the hook]) had to set aside a full year's loss reserves at 100% of the previous years claims. In other words, for every dollar BCBS paid out inb claims, the next year it had to have a dollar in the bank. The BCBS Plans had no way to come up with this kind of money and all went out of business because they could not comply with a federal regulation in an area that had always been left to state regulation. Even though this action amounted to a Bill of Attainder, the fact that it was passed by Executive Order made it almost for BCBS to sue the government and win.

The BCBS PLans then re-incorporated as for-profit stock companies. The IPO's did not go well, because there were too many similar offerings at the same time, so the BCBS Plans started out their business lives with staggering debt. And that debt, together with the absence of the former BCBS cost containment, has been a major reason for the dramatic increase in health care costs.

The original BCBS Plans were essentially a coop. They were experience-rated. That is, this years premiums were based on last year's claims. They did risk pooling to spread the risks around so that small businesses were not overly penalized when someone got cancer.

But one of the reasons that the for-profit medical industry advocates for a co-op instead of a government option is that they know exactly how to castrate that bull. The GOP has done it before.

We have plenty of government-run health care agencies. The VA system, Medicare, MedicAid, Tri-Care, CHAMPUS, and numerous smaller programs that most people have never even heard of. Sure, the VA is underfunded, but it is still about twice as cost-effective as any for-profit hospital. (The government has always said it loves vets and then refused to help care for the need when the time came. I am a Vietnam Vet and I watched the government refuse to fund things like Agent Orange poisoning, Gulf War Syndrome, and PTSD. But that's not the VA system, it's deceitful politicians who hate our vets - Reagan was the worst and did all in his power top kill the VA system because he felt that American soldiers lost to the Vietnamese because they were unpatriotic.)

So, don't fall for the co-op gag. Especially the Blue Dog Democrats are pulling in millions in campaign dollars for trying to kill the public option. And the GOP isn't far behind them. But we've rode that horse and too many people know how to make it ineffective.

And BTW, the basic raping of the Social Security Trust Fund, the Highway Trust Fund, the National Park Trust Fund, the Airways Trust Fund and many others was done by Ronnie Reagan to pay for Star Wars. And that $1.3 trillion has never yielded a thing and has never been accounted for.

Dean is right, his book is awsome. He said this morning that this is just politics. he says it will be in the bill after it is reconciled.

Actually all polls are showing that it is the independents who are most against Obamacare. He will gain support of this group only if he drops health care as an issue--says we need to study it more closely and will bring it up later and waits until his second term--otherwise--NoSecond Term!

Independents Suck! They cant make up there mind over a party to choose. How hard is that! And now where held hostage by them. Every bill that the so called centrist put out is watered down crap! A Public Option is the only thing that will hold the insurance company's feet to the fire otherwise this is just another payday for corporate America.

Chris: Thank you for your voice in this debate... it is refreshing to hear an honest, knowledgeable, unbiased sharing of information so that, even if one does not agree with your conclusion, "So, don't fall for the co-op gag" (although I do agree personally), the information, because it is presented as first hand knowledge about one portion of the issue, co-ops, makes it valid in my view. Truth, that is what we should all be seeking so that we can make our conclusions based on honest information (minus all the emotion).

Not only are they killing a bill, They are killing the Best president that we had had in Decades. He will lose so bad and I will not blam him for whatever happens. He gets credit for trying, and I will vote for him again in a heartbeat.

I agree as well... the loss here will not only be of the benefits of the public option, but just as much the outright undermining of the democratic system that put all these elected officials in place. The over-arching story here is that if we can't get this one particular thing done now with control of the Whitehouse and both houses of congress, then it's very apparent that our system of government will never again be effective at carrying out the will of the people who put it in power.

I don't care what side of the aisle you put yourself - if you don't think that outright paralysis despite electoral mandate is a problem then you need to reanalyze exactly how it is you think representative government works. If the federal government is unable to enact legislation that 78% of Americans are in favor of, then it is clearly irreparably broken.

Never to be fixed, Fox totally divides us and MSNBC only wants healthcare no matter the cost or who pays as long as Obama wins.

Why the President is the President –

I never thought I my life time I would see a person of color in the Presidency. I thought I would certainly see a woman first, if I were fortunate to live long enough. The history of racism and the level of racism and just plain innate reluctance to vote for Obama because of race was a shocker to me when he became the President.

His margin of victory and the sweeping in of The Democratic Party into such large numbers of both houses of congress was astonishing. Then we ask why? How could this phenomenon happen? What was the catalyst for ousting of all those Republicans? What is driving the new silent majority to political action? No Acorn, I never heard of them, or popcorn or any one group could mobilize 66 million plus to vote as they did, something else is and was driving the new silent majority.

I remember the clarion call for CHANGE, real change, the big money interest were to be driven out of controlling, manipulating, lets not forget the money mongering lobbyists, the American people. It was like that guy sticking his head out the window and shouting “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”, I paraphrase, I may it have off just a little. It was as though that actor represented the American people collectively.

The most resounding call for change, as I recall during the campaign, was for a National Health Plan, specifically, as details were demanded a “Public Option National Health Plan”. Such a plan would guaranty competition, and if the national leeching health insurance (surely, a misnomer) wanted out then we could open up the country to health insurance companies that would love to latch onto the current high cost of maintaining health in our country. Foreign health insurance companies.

Mr. President that is why you are the President. That is why you are sitting in the White House. That is why you are the Commander and Chief of our great, once great nation.

That is why you were elected, and that is what you unequivocally said would be your first piece of real substantial change that you would do for the American people, that voted you into office. You forget Mr. President that millions of Republicans and or swing voters and many who had not voted in many years were inspired by your lofty goals

No “Co-Ops”, the Midwest Co-Op, the Western States Co-Op, the Southern States Co-Op and so on. Working hand in hand with the current big business insurance health companies. No go, a non-starter.

The American people are mad as hell and we are not going to take it anymore.

You were going to be the peoples President, REMEMBER.

Put back the “Public Option” into the National Health Plan, as you promised.

Hey guys, I think Obama is just 20 years too late. I think this country is so messed up, I don't even think Superman can fix it fast enough for these negative people we have had to put up with since Clinton.

peace!

Hey Dems, and Dean especially. Obama won. Deal with it!

Wisest choice he could make in light of the monumental outcry from the people that will have to live (or die) with a government run, but government non-participant health care system.

Let the American people decide, that's what it's all about. Those who don't contribute, don't deserve anything. Those who think the government should give, give, give should move to a country that believes that socialism is the only way.

By the way, Perservere- All those people who were crying for, wishing for, pleading for and voting for change have now shut their conglomerate mouths, because they've seen the light. They've seen that the beast was unleashed and are ashamed! Hitler, reincarnated!

All right, tell me again what is so bad about a public option? Who stands to benefit and who stands to lose? I am very confused by the ferver on the right against a public option. Why don't they want people to have a choice? This is America after all and having the option of a public policy or a private one seems reasonable to me. Aren't we a country all about the induviuals right to chose? Where is the choice now, today? The public option along side the private options is the way to go. It works for education why not health care?

What is a co-op and how would that be better than a public plan? The absolute worst thing would be to pass laws requiring all Americans to have health insurance and then not giving us the option of public or non-profit plans.

I am very dissappointed that the public option might be removed from the table. Why should the majority of us let the 60 ruin things? California has that problem the way things stand right now we are a state run by a small majority of people because of the super majority required to pass anything. That is not government by the people for the people, it is government run by some of us for a few of us!

I agree with you. It does not matter what is in this bill they are not going to vote for it. It could be something that will help all Americans rich or poor. They stated already that they want him to fail and they will do everything for him to fail. It kind of shows you what type of character you are dealing with. They have no character. They are not men because their word is no good. Senator Grassley showed exactly what he was there in that meeting doing. He was not looking out for the best interest of the American citizen. The Republicans only care about winning. Makes you wonder what they want to be in government for if they don't really care about the citizens.

The Power of the Vote –

The amount of lobbyist money on the behalf of the health insurance Mafia is blocking the will of the American people. We voted them in we can vote them out. I would rather see nothing change then to perpetuate into the decades to come a filthy rotten money grabbing health system set up by bought and sold politicians.

Organize and organize and vote. Contribute money, all that you can spare. $25, $50, 75, $100 or more. That is how the people voted these circus clowns into congress. One and out, buddy. We groom the successor and fill the campaign coffers on the replacement.

How do you think The DNC collected Soooooo much money to run its campaigns? Little people donating $100, $200 or even $20 dollars. When the number of donations is in the million and millions the money account starts too add up. No business or group of individuals can match Fifty million people donating $75.00 each. For those that cannot add that’s $3,750,000,000.

Lets sweep them out and put real representatives of the people into the governance of this once great nation. We did it a few months ago we can start now to retake the country. Education, organization.

If it must be, a third party is not out of the question, "The American Party".

AMERICANS on the move and in the groove for AMERICA. ORGANIZE NOW!!!!!

CORRECTION.  The Democrats need only 50 votes in the Senate, not 60.

I am sick of the media consistently mis-reporting this!

Earlier this year the Democrats tied healthcare to the budget reconciliation.  Therefore, this is not subject to a filibuster.  The Democrats can win this with only 50 votes and Vice president Biden acting as a tie breaker.

This issue does NOT need 60 votes!  Reid is too much of a coward for the Democrats to go it alone, so he keeps insisting he needs Republican votes.  BUT HE DOESN"T!!!

The only thing the Democrats need is courage.  They have votes to spare.  We have so many votes that 10 Democratic Senators could leave us on this, that is 1/6 of the entire Senate caucus, and we'd still have the votes to win.

I am sick of excuses!!!!!!  It is time for the Democrats in the Senate to invoke Budget reconiliaiton and pass a bill over Republican objection.

Chris-532131

Hey Chris, informative and nicely put. Your post should be required reading for all that visit this site and want to be educated on our health history. I am a veteran myself; I heard the Veterans of Foreign Wars speech and the great number of applause the President received during his speech. Seems like the Veterans are supporting our new President. Refreshing to see and hear.

Thanks for your post………….

Correction: Chris 537131

I wonder how many people have written/called their representatives or the President today to protest this backing away from a public option; I know I have. I've also donated to Dr Dean's initiative.

If those of us who support a public option can't make ourselves heard over the screams of the lying loons on the right, we probably deserve what we get.

Wait let me get this straight? Being a Conservative makes you a traitor?

Being Centrist makes you a traitor?

Yet someone like Dean does not pay his taxes and is hero while miliking the very industry you want to change?

which is it?

What the Health Care Insurers are doing is the same thing that is done by the local 7-11 guy when there is a sever hurricane. Your $1.00 bottle of water goes to $12.00. And you'll pay it too because you have no choice.

Without a government option they will continue to have a strangle hold on everyone. It is a simple matter to understand why republican legislators and blue dog Democrats are opposing this reform.

They are being paid to oppose it by the Health Care Insurers. Simple clear, easy to understand.

Middle class people who oppose reform are opposing their own best interests. Why they would to this is a mystery to me. They seem easily manipulated, easily lead, gullible fools.

healthcare is human rights issue. the 46m uncovered american people on record is a shame, and is a serious crime against humanity.

this overrides anything else. overrides any special intrests.

I wonder how many of the nay sayers here know of someone who has gone bankrupt due to health care costs. I do, and this couple has health insurance. Husband can no longer work and still has health issues due to complications from triple bypass. The wife is stuck in her job, if she leaves job she will unlikely be able to get insurance. This type of situation is what healthcare reform is all about. 68% of bankruptcies due to health costs have or had health insurance. You people so against any kind of reform are just protecting Big Health insurance profits... up over 400% in last 8 years. You worry about where the money is going to come from? Hello? Its insurance. People will be paying into it. You are worried about rationing? Already there, when some insurance pencil pusher can deny life saving treatment or better yet cancel your premiums because they need to preserve profits above preserving life. Health insurance should not be a for profit industry. And I dont think Co-ops will be able to compete.

ndbltwy: Independents suck? they can't make up their mind? well let me tell you as an independent, i choose not to be in the back pockets of the democrats or republicans, i do not lean in either direction, i happen to vote for the best person that I feel represents the American people, so far every politician of both parties are greedy, untruthful and self serving. if you choose to follow the leader just because he or she is of the same party i feel very sorry for those of us that expect better! i for one am tired of being expected to vote for the best of the worst, no matter how you figure it' it's still the worst!

Alykatma...

You people so against any kind of reform are just protecting Big Health insurance profits

That is a very narrow view. Were it not for our health insurance we would be bankrupt. I would have probably lost my son at 8 weeks and I would be festering with colon cancer and my darling dear one, who is preparing for his annual screening now would be growing more tumors as well.

We pay handsomely for our health insurance to make sure that we have a plan that will meet the needs of our three children and ourselves. We pay for the Medicare supplements for our parents so they are not burdened by out of pocket expense. There are years we have been we have been under our coverage and years we have been over but to know that we can seek treatment without worrying about what tomorrow might bring is a day to day relief.

Do I think we have a perfect system. No by no means is it perfect. I see increases in premiums as well as co-pays that I am not happy about and that truly take away from discretionary income and it is irritating. These increase are as much to do with people who steal services from medical providers and hospitals as to the greed of insurance companies and the tremendous liability health care providers must pay to protect their own practices. Drug costs have skyrocketed to American consumers where consumers in other countries get a much better cost option. There are ways to repair our system and still keep it free market and accessible to most Americans without the intrusion of the Federal Government on the privacy of individuals.

1) To eliminate the fraud in the system hospitals and States need to be free to prosecute those who use services under fraudulent identification or who give bogus addresses for billing purposes. (We moved into a new home in the first week I had three bills under three different names from our local children's hospital. These are charges that will in all likelihood either be written off or reimbursed with federal dollars. This abuse costs everyone but those who feel entitled to abuse the system.

2) With regard to Insurance Companies, Legislate to make insurance portable from one job to the next. Legislate that pre existing conditions must be covered. Require that insurance policies be written in a language that the average 10th grader can understand so that people are aware of what they are purchasing and receiving coverage for and particularly what exclusions, requirements and risks exist.

3)Drug costs. Legislate that drug companies cannot market their products to the general public. Most people will not do independent research to find if they are truly candidates and will actually seek out their DR.s for remedies for issues they never knew they had. Some people will see the disclaimers and not consider the drug in a full circle that could be helpful. By all means give people a way to research individual drugs in the event they are prescribed but the expense and risk of marketing to an uneducated population is a health risk and drives up the cost of drugs. Marketing to health care professional in trade journals should be an appropriate target market so that Dr. and Patients can have an appropriate and informed discussion on a script. It might also be prudent to consider ethics legislation in Dr. personal investments that could be construed as a conflict of interest.That however could easily become a slippery slope.

4) Tort reform. Where Dr.s should be held to a standard of excellence and moral application of their craft we live in a tremendously litigious society for the sake of emotional pain and there are many among us who abuse this system. This needs to be corrected and quickly. There are many who get through med school to realize they cannot afford the insurance to open a private practice. This reality eliminates many options like working in rural communities, rural hospitals to what specialty can the afford to perform. The existing system limits these professionals from total commitment to their patients and encourages sources of lesser qualifications like PA's or Nurse Practitioners to preform beyond their educational preparation. Were the day to day expense of being a practicing physician reasonable more PA's and Nurse Practitioners could afford to gain the full training and credentials to become an MD themselves assuring more focused care to patients on an individual and comprehensive level.

one other thing, the only time the democrats & republicans agree 100% is when they vote themselves a raise, the other is, keep in place a two party system only.

Hey Chris and the rest of you lib wacos. Read the following and then comment.

Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver, leaked paper reveals

By Darah Hansen, Vancouver SunAugust 10, 2009

St. Paul's Hospital cardiologists peform a heart procedure.

Photograph by: ..., Vancouver Sun file

VANCOUVER — Vancouver patients needing neurosurgery, treatment for vascular diseases and other medically necessary procedures can expect to wait longer for care, NDP health critic Adrian Dix said Monday.

Dix said a Vancouver Coastal Health Authority document shows it is considering chopping more than 6,000 surgeries in an effort to make up for a dramatic budgetary shortfall that could reach $200 million.

“This hasn’t been announced by the health authority … but these cuts are coming,” Dix said, citing figures gleaned from a leaked executive summary of “proposed VCH surgical reductions.”

The health authority confirmed the document is genuine, but said it represents ideas only.

“It is a planning document. It has not been approved or implemented,” said spokeswoman Anna Marie D’Angelo.

Dr. Brian Brodie, president of the BC Medical Association, called the proposed surgical cuts “a nightmare.”

“Why would you begin your cost-cutting measures on medically necessary surgery? I just can’t think of a worse place,” Brodie said.

According to the leaked document, Vancouver Coastal — which oversees the budget for Vancouver General and St. Paul’s hospitals, among other health-care facilities — is looking to close nearly a quarter of its operating rooms starting in September and to cut 6,250 surgeries, including 24 per cent of cases scheduled from September to March and 10 per cent of all medically necessary elective procedures this fiscal year.

The plan proposes cutbacks to neurosurgery, ophthalmology, vascular surgery, and 11 other specialized areas.

As many of 112 full-time jobs — including 13 anesthesiologist positions — would be affected by the reductions, the document says.

“Clearly this will impact the capacity of the health-care system to provide care, not just now but in the future,” Dix said.

Further reductions in surgeries are scheduled during the Olympics, when the health authority plans to close approximately a third of its operating rooms.

Two weeks ago, Dix released a Fraser Health Authority draft communications plan listing proposed clinical care cuts, including a 10-per-cent cut in elective surgeries and longer waits for MRI scans.

The move comes after the province acknowledged all health authorities together will be forced to cut staff, limit some services and increase fees to find $360 million in savings during the current fiscal year.

In all, Fraser Health is looking at a $160-million funding shortfall.

D’Angelo said Vancouver Coastal’s deficit is closer to $90 million — almost a third of which ($23 million) has already been absorbed through reductions in non-clinical administration efficiencies.

Vancouver Coastal performed 67,000 surgeries last year, an increase of 6,500 surgeries over 2007.

“What has now happened is that now our wait times are about 25 per cent lower than the provincial average,” D’Angelo said. “We have put a dent in that wait list.”

Brodie acknowledged surgical waiting times have dropped significantly in recent years, particularly for patients needing hip and joint replacements.

He said the proposed cuts threaten those advancements.

“It sounds like we are going backwards here,” he said.

Total health spending in British Columbia was $15.7 billion this year, up about four per cent over last year’s total of 15.1 billion, according to figures provided by the ministry of health.

Health Minister Kevin Falcon was unavailable for comment Monday on the proposed health-care cuts. A ministry spokesman said Falcon is away on his honeymoon until the end of August.

Elsewhere in British Columbia, the province will look to replace the head of the Interior Health Authority, Murray Ramsden, after he announced he will step down at the end of the year.

Ramsden has said his decision to retire is not related to financial problems faced by the authority.

dahansen@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

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St. Paul's Hospital cardiologists peform a heart procedure.

Photograph by: ..., Vancouver Sun file

Dean maybe right with his thinking..Huge Numbers/ Participants and Competition, IS the DRIVING FORCE...IS needed to put this Health Reform in the Right Direction..Now, let's talk MONEY from The PEOPLE..THIS IS THE WHOLE DEAL !!!...

Brian-1256689:

It's not 46 million Americans as 15 million or so are CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ALIENS - and they ARE NOT AMERICANS so they don't count!

arthur

if dumbo still says he won, ok with me

Sorry dumbo was the last president the Republicans elected and followed. Yea, the one that spent trillions without paying for it. The one that lied about the severity of our nations financial problems up to 4 months before the elections. Now you remember him.

arthur, one of the public options is very much alive. it's health care coops. these are an ideal solution since their local, consumer oriented, and not a government agency. Once democrats understand that they are equivalent to credit unions, most of them will be on-board, since they are not insurance companies. If there are any republicans left who have enough backbone to stand up to the crazies, they will support coops as well since they are not government. that way we can get the other 90% of health care reform that's desparately needed, and the crazies can go ahead and think they won something.

Co-ops depends on how they are setup. Never particluarly cared for Credit Unions - belonged to one for years and did not find that it gave me any benefits over the local bank.

Check out the Federal Employee health plans that Grassly and other Republicans say are too expensive and that we do not deserve at:

http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/

SEC has reported that the 10 largest health insurers have reported a profit of 428% from 2000 to 2007. Health insurance CEOs averaged 11.9 million in compensation every year. The Labor Dept. Consumer Index has reported a 4.4% increase in health insurance for the 12 months ending in June--that on top of a 4.2% increase from the previous year. Wages in the private sector rose only 1.6%. Watson Wyatt 2 to 5-year survey show that employers expect salaries increases to remain the same or decrease. Given the consolidation of the insurance industry in the last 10 years and single insurer's dominance in regional markets, if not a public option to get health insurers to compete to lower prices, what then? Reforming health care and help boost the buying power of consumers (70% of the economy) and help US businesses compete globally and maybe even hire.

SEC has reported that the 10 largest health insurers have reported a profit of 428% from 2000 to 2007. Health insurance CEOs averaged 11.9 million in compensation every year. The Labor Dept. Consumer Index has reported a 4.4% increase in health insurance for the 12 months ending in June--that on top of a 4.2% increase from the previous year. Wages in the private sector rose only 1.6%. Watson Wyatt 2 to 5-year survey show that employers expect salaries increases to remain the same or decrease. Given the consolidation of the insurance industry in the last 10 years and single insurer's dominance in regional markets, if not a public option to get health insurers to compete to lower prices, what then? Reforming health care and help boost the buying power of consumers (70% of the economy) and help US businesses compete globally and maybe even hire.

You know, I don't have a powerful emotional stance on this bill because my family receives excellent health care from the VA (100% disabled Vietnam Veteran, my son 80% disabled former Army Ranger). But it occurs to me that Congress and the President are simply trying to ignore that proverbial 800 pound gorilla in the room - rampant, debilitating litigation. And I cannot help but notice that the politicians on both sides of the aisle don't seem to be much of a hurry to bring the issue up, either.

Richard Vidaurri

Alhambra, California

The average CEO earns in one day what the average family of four earns in one year. Now you wonder why your insurance is so high.

Do you really think insurance companies will lower their price just because you will be able to come across state lines. Think about that for a second you will bring more business to an industry that already does not care about it's customers. Silly they will just raise their prices to compete with the insurance companies in your town. Most of these insurance companies are all owned by the same companies. That will not make the prices go down.

Fact is the reason for the high medical costs is not tort reform, research et al. It is the government slow paying or not paying on Medicaid/Medicare and pushing those costs onto everyone else.

Medicare/Medicaid pays maybe 60% of the services rendered and then the rest is pushed onto the public.

Want to reform Healthcare, make the Government honor its agreements from Medicaid/Medicare first. Then we can move on.

The average CEO earns in one day what the average family of four earns in one year. Now you wonder why your insurance is so high.

The Average Family of four WORKS as hard as the average CEO in one year as that CEO works in one day.

That work better?

Ever think maybe you should make some decisions to better yourself? Maybe think I should think about contraceptives when deciding if I can afford to raise another human?

Just easier to blame a person who worked their butt off to get their piece of the pie isn't it?

Just easier to blame a person who worked their butt off to get their piece of the pie isn't it?

With healthcare insurance at 425% profit and premium increasing who is making money off the real workers? CEOs. Wake up!!!!

demitrix: Your kidding right. Oh of course not. Im surprised they dont drop dead one day one according to your theory

The Average Family of four WORKS as hard as the average CEO in one year as that CEO works in one day.

Are you kiidding me? A middle class family of four working for a year is equivalent to a CEO working one day? Why are you defending these these POSs?

Most Doctors don't take new Medicare patients

what are you using for a source for this statement?

Minan--I'm a limited source. Our primary care clinic, and as far as I know, all the other primary care clinics in our county, limit or do not take new Medicare patients. We are classified as rural, we are heavily populated with retired people, and our current patient bases are above what is fiscally acceptable in regards to Medicare patients. In other words, we can't see more Medicare patients because we can't pay the bills with what the government gives us to see patients. So the patients least likely to sue us, that are pleasant and mannerly, are over represented and not getting appointments. I don't like it, but I don't like not being able to see anybody worse.

That's because they can't overcharge Medicare. Medicare pays a lot for procedures. Maybe some cost-cutting would be in order?

You don't cut cost by refusing to pay. Any solution based on this approach shows a clear underlying lack of business/marketplace understanding.

Medicare doesn't even cover the out of pocket and overhead costs of Dr.'s. That is why so many are opting not to treat medicare patients. My husband recently had back surgery (would have had to wait a year in UK) and our Dr. got paid about 1/3 of his very reasonable bill. He said he was very glad my husband will be able to walk now, but lost money while paying for his overhead at his clinic, hospital rights, malpractice insurance etc. He will take earlly retirement if Obamacare goes through.

The only way to cut costs (other than malpractice controls) is to give less effective treatment. Note that Canadian Cancer patients have a much much less favorable outlook than US Cancer patients and setting price ceilings on Dr. fees (salary?) will drive many to retire and no new young people will put up with the rigors of training only to face the frustration of knowing there is a cure for a precious human being they are not allowed to give to them (costs you know) because Obama's death panel says they are too old or too ill to be worth saving.

Pardon me for being dense here, but isn't it impossible for entitlement programs like the VA to run anything but in the red?

Richard Vidaurri

Alhambra, California

Marie

Obama's death panel says they are too old or too ill to be worth saving.

stop perpetuating the lie! The republicans have all but dropped that idiotic accusation...you have every right to disagree with all of this but, make your point without telling a bold faced lie!

VA is not an entitlement.

VA was an Entitlement when America had the Draft.

The second the Armed Forces became Voluntary VA became a benefit.

Want it to be an entitlement lets bring back the draft. Me, I would love to see that happen.

Richard Vidaurri –

For your information everyone does count, poor souls or not. Being a Vet myself I give you no deference in the least. You're the poor soul, telling everyone your so disabled. I guess not too disabled to garble.

Tort reform will go along way, yeah, right smart guy. Tell us all, all the readers of this post: what is the cost of a botched stupid error on the part of the "professional health provider" that you've put your very life in the hands of should pay?

Permanent blindness? What does Richard say?…..$90,000?

Permanent Coma? " $175,000?

Loss of a limb? " $60,000?

Permanent Paralysis? " $110,00?

Loss of life? " $250,000?

I have read the insurance companies you love so much want to cap at $250,000 MAX. I think my daughter or wife is worth more than a $250,000 for the loss of life. I might add so do I believe is anyone's loved ones. I think a great many posters have done quit a bit more analysis than you have. At least what I have read of you, shallow.

Since your on the dole, and don't really care, maybe you could so yourself a favor and not read the Vine. You don't like posters that use the screen name of "American" that is so disturbing to you. I think anyone can call themselves anything they want, its called freedom of speech. You don't care if there is a "public option" or not. Oh what the......

So long pal........

Richard Vidaurri

I agree putting a cap on someone's life/limb because a doc is incompetant is stupid. Entitlement programs? Yeah, there are VETs out there entitling you to spew your nonsense.

The best doctors go into private practice because they don't want to deal with government subsidizing. Only the bad ones are accepting government handouts

Can you provide a source for this statement?

Lets hope he does just that,that for sure will close his chances in 2012. I believe its more about the uncontrolled spending amounts,spending money that is not there is never a good thing.

I voted for Obama, but I may not again if he decides to bend over and grab his ankles for the GOP. I'm sick of republicans and their spoiled, childish behavior. If I were President I would walk all over the GOP horse asses and say to hell with a bipartisan bill.

I agree with you Julian...100%. I donated my money and time in the last election to have real change, not as you so well stated, to bend over and hold my ankles while the grand obstructionist party whines about it. Crap, I have rocks in my driveway smarter than the average republican voter, who election after election votes against their own interests.

The republicans did a tremendous job of disinformation and lying which threw the public into a tizzy.

I opposed the public option due to timing (costs) but not in theory.

I wish some one would do a side-by-side comparison of US/UK health care models and see why there's costs 1/2 of what ours does. Right wing tells us it's rationing and euthanasia. Left wing tells us it's the high prices. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle, but politicians will make sure we'll never know it

Why cause they don't back a inexperienced and apologetic President, get real.

Julian in Dallas...Your approach would give the current President a...well..dictators post. That might really irritate the independents as well as many in the DNC that still wish the US to maintain a Democratic appeal. That's the very charge levied against of the Bush White House that turned popular opinion against his administration. He wanted to call all the shots without due consideration of the Constitution.

So what aspects of his candidacy attracted you to Obama?

gary, get real, that's an opinion, not fact.

I don't beleive aplogized as the right wing would have you beleive. He said we made mistakes, which we did, and he wanted to rid ourselves of the "holier-than-thou" bush attitude, which he did.

You can make a case he was inexperienced but no less so than many people who ran and were elected president. Look at Bush: he was govenor in a state where the govenor had essentially no power, he was semi-literate and a failed business-man. He was a 2-termer.

Gary, I took the bait and got off the point. The right-wing lied about the health care plan and they knew they were lying. But they also knew the public was ready to believe their lies.

It worked perfectly but it was really sleazy. I think in the end it will backfire.

stormerf

I believe its more about the uncontrolled spending amounts

Yes, you conservatives were really worried about that when GWB was blowing up the deficits. You are only vocal about spending when it is being done to help people and not corporations.

As an investor and employer, this President has created fear relative to my risks of making deals and hiring people. Obama health care, regulations, and higher taxes do not provide incentives for small business to hire. We do 70% of the hiring. You people need us more than we need you. Currently I spend more time with my children and will wait out the 4 or 8 years for now. We will take less risk for now, so no jobs for you!

I am sorry, but this is a reality, demonstrated over and over again. The most regulated decades (with Lefty governments) were the 30s and 70s. These two decades were the most economically disappointing.

When the economy eventually recovers, the performance will be very underwhelming.

Until I feel good and have an incentive to be creative (5,000,000 small businesses) then no jobs or raises for you. You need my risk taking and brains.

I am currently functioning with my two companies by outsourcing labor to sub-contractors, instead of hiring. These sub-contractors speak Spanish. Their employees do not have lawyers and will ever be a part of health care reform. I need not go on.

I have 1000 ways of getting around this poor business environment, do you who work for a pay check?

You people do not know what you do not know. You damaged yourselves by putting this idiot in the White House.

Make the tax rates 101% and I can still thrive.

I am currently functioning with my two companies by outsourcing labor to sub-contractors, instead of hiring. These sub-contractors speak Spanish. Their employees do not have lawyers and will ever be a part of health care reform. I need not go on.

You're hiring illegals through a subcontractor.

You're part of the problem.

Julian - And that's good for the American people how? I wish you would all realize that this isn't about politics but about freedom and liberty! I don't know why everyone thinks that if you don't agree with the President and Congress you must be a Republican; hell, I don't agree with ANY of them.......what does that make me other than smart enough to think for myself?!

I am blessed, yes blessed, to have insurance options provided by my employer; are they great - no; do they have limits - yes; do I have to contribute - yes; but I was smart enough and responsible enough to review the plans and choose the one that worked best for me. It's not perfect, nothing is or will be but, we cannot ask hard working, tax paying out the ass citizens to continue to support the masses. Remember, if the wealthy are over-taxed, we have no jobs!!!! Then what are you going to do? Healthcare is not a right, it is a responsibility.

And when the spiraling costs of health care force your company to cut back or cutoff your insurance benefit, fedup, where will that leave you? In the same spot many other Americans are in now. Having to make tough choices between buying food or going to the doctor.

Think the Republicans are lying? Take a look at HB3200. First the administration said there were no "death squads" (Dr.s who can issue a death order) but the language is in this bill and anyone who wishes can read it. First they said it wasn't there, but the internet put out the language (a private organization) and now the administration says that part will be taken out.

Who is lying to the publlic? How can you remove language that was not there. This bill is a disaster. We will pay much more in taxes for this government plan. "free medical care" is anything but free. Wait until you are paying 60% of your income in taxes like other Socialized countries and enjoy your "free" substandard care until you have your Death ordered by a panel of "approved" physicians.

OUShark--Anyone can nowget healthcare at the emergency room--they can't turn you away and only about 12% of Americans don't have health care. Many of them, like a woman here in Seattle, would simply rather spend their money on other things like a boat, new car or remodeling a home than on health insurance.

Get off your duffs folks and pay for your own medical care.

As for businesses, Obamacare "Health Tax" will cost me much more than a good private insurance plan for my folks, in fact his 8% tax to provide health care far exceeds what I now pay. It will mean layoffs and no healthcare at all for some of my employees. It might even collapse my business (narrow profit margin) and leave all my employees not only without insurance, but without the means to pay their mortgage and for food and clothing for their kids.

Get real. Obamacare is neither the friend of the employee nor the employer.

Patrick

You Sir, are a real patriot (sarcasm)!! You're bytching about this country and its current Administration but do you think you could do what you're doing with your business anywhere else in the world and get away with it. Yep...a real patriot! I'll bet you are also one of those guys that bytch and moan about the immigration "problem". Why don't you propose something as a part of the process and stop making yourself a part of the problem. What a hypocrite you are sir!

Marie

Think the Republicans are lying? Take a look at HB3200. First the administration said there were no "death squads" (Dr.s who can issue a death order) but the language is in this bill and anyone who wishes can read it. First they said it wasn't there, but the internet put out the language (a private organization) and now the administration says that part will be taken out.

Who is lying to the publlic? How can you remove language that was not there.

Oh my...if it was on the internet, it must be true! Link please.

Well OUShark, if I lose my insurance, I hope that I will first give up all of the unnecessary items in my life and focus those funds on my healthcare; I still do not believe that it is the responsibility of other people to provide healthcare for the masses.

Someone else said that 60% of the people currently paying taxes are supporting the other 40%; why is this right? And what are those people doing to "pay it forward"? So many of our fellow Americans feel that they are entitled to what they want without having to do anything to obtain what they need.

One more thing, you guys all need to get the politics out of this discussion; I will say it again, this is not about politics, this is about freedom/liberty!! Instead of arguing about the Repubs and the Dems, we as Americans need to demand that our elected officials pay attention to the people and quit treating us as if we couldn't possibly know what is best for us. Demand that they listen to our needs and concerns. Demand that they put aside the party politics and work for America! I'm just saying.......

There is no way this will be partisan. Too many gun carrying protestors and death panel loons.

I was always very much against a health care bill being rammed through without votes from the republicans and the blue dogs. My opinon changed the second Obama said he was considering taking out the Public Option. It is now or never people. One oif the reasons I voted for President Barack Obama was the promise of health care reform through a public option. I have been very fortunate in my life in regrads to having health insurance through my employers. But there are millions of Americans who are not as fortunate as me and my wife because of circumstances that are beyond there control. I have no problem paying a little more in taxes so these people can have the same opportunity for health care that I do. I thought that was the American way? Helping out your fellow Americans when they need it most not kicking them while they are down. What the hell is wrong with this country? When did America turn into "its all about me and @!$%# everybody else"? I find it hard to digest some of the comments here that are against the public option beaciuse you don't want your taxes raised or are scared of this country being consumed by socialism without one @!$%#ing mention of the humanity aspect of it. Very disheartening.

My employer has to cut back on benefits for employees every time the insurance comes up for renewal. It's just a matter of economics. No matter what Rush tells you, insurance is pricing THEMSELVES out of the market. Employers will only be able to offer their employees this benefit for so much longer before it becomes too expensive. And if it's too expensive for a group rate, I can dam well promise it will be too expensive for me to keep up with.

They do not have a bill,they just want everyone to get on board for a bill,so they can add what they want......Need I remind you about AIG bonuses in the stimulis bill?

The president obviously wants to make this a bipartisan bill so republicans will help implement it, not impede its implementation and thereby ensure its failure.

MRT- I'm not sure that the bipartisan part is not anything more than an election factor. If it is passed and fails in its results,it would be a hard thing to run against. Having said that it will be easier to sell if its bipartisan.

You may be right but if I'm Obama, I want republicans to have a stake in its' success, not its failure.

"Sebelius said the White House would be open to co-ops instead of a public option — a sign that Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory."

Public option going once, going twice......now a co-op to complete the "compromise so they (Democrats) can declare a victory".

Seems to me our elected officials need to collect all the different variations of the Universal Health Care Bill, consolidate them, then take a look at what they have. Changing the scope and intent of any bill in mid-stream is a receipt for disaster. If it takes 1, 2, or 3 years (maybe longer) to formulate this bill to ensure the thing will work is probably beyond the mindset of the beltway. They want it passed now and to be bipartisan (which they don't need).

The AIG bonuses were contracts between employer and employee. The government had no business in any of that. The members of the house who voted to retroactively tax them at 90% were idiots.

MRT It will be a stake in a failure. Socialized medicine has/is failed/failing in every single place it has been tried.

Marie:

And you know that how? Studies and/or FACTS please.

It is a difficult situation. Just like trying Bush for illegal torture it is complex.

Nancy - You start of with a sane and reasonable argument and then get a little crazy.

Constitutional authority? How do you think Medicare/Medicaid got passed? Or, social security, for that matter? The Federal government has long used Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution to justify assuming the powers of State government...and will continue to do so. Perhaps, a conservative Supreme Court will some day overrule something on the grounds of the 14th Amendment...but it isn't likely.

Rich people will take their money and go? Doubtful. In any case, if their money means more to them than their country, let them go. I am certainly not against people holding onto to their wealth, but that is a ridiculous argument. Taxes have been far higher than now, or even what is anticipated under the Obama administration, in the past. Take a look at the Eisenhower years when we were paying off the debt incurred as a result of WW II.

And...If everyone making over $250,000/yr left tomorrow, you don't think there are enough people making less more than willing to take their places? If you think the wealthy, investment class in the country is infallible...take a look at the subprime mortgage crisis.

HR 3200 establishes the upper limit of government subsidized insurance (basically an extension of Medicare/Medicaid) at $80,000/yr. Seems a bit high to me. Keep the public option, for those who genuinely need it, but lower the ceiling to something more reasonable, which will make the program deficit neutral...and get on with it.

Medicare, medicaid and SS shoud not have been passed either. Wasn't SS optional at first? And only 1.5% on the first $1,500 of income? This is a case of more wrongs not making a right, and Government run healthcare will be the biggest mistake of them all. It WILL ration or go bankrupt.

As for taking the place of the rich.....gosh, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe I'll ask Bill Gates if I can take his place if he leaves. Good idea!

Relatively sure, you wouldn't qualify to take Bill's place...but there are plenty who would like the chance...don't kid yourself.

I understand your position on the other entitlement programs, but it places you in a small minority of the voting population. So, while you are certainly free to express any opinion you want, you offer no practical solution...hence your posts become "advertising" instead of meaningful discussion.

Not trying to be rude...but it's sort of "Yeah...well...we're not going to do away with all entitlement programs, so what can you add to the discussion on health care reform?"

Nancy,

I think stoned got some facts wrong.

48% of Americans pay NO Federal Income Tax today. They either aren't working or their income qualifies them for the Earned Income Tax Credit which returns 100% PLUS of any taxes paid. So, that Tax Bracket he's so eager to shaft pays about 60% of the countries tax revenue.

It just amazes me that there are people who want to pay MORE taxes to insure people who either aren't citizens or if they are, have chosen not to buy their own insurance. Granted, there are some of the 47 million people who need help and we should do something for them, but I don't think it would take a Trillion dollars to do

Nancy -993682,

Since it would be based on premiums,just like any other insurance, how would it go bankrupt?

As for the constitution, it also does not allow for an AirForce, Space program, Interstate Highway system, or many other things that we have today, that would not have been thought of in the early 1900's never mind the late 1700's.

If you want ti live life like they did in the 1790's fine, but most do not.

I simply pointed out that historically, we've had higher taxes.

Over the last generation, wealth had concentrated into the upper brackets. That distribution is now about what it was in 1929. The middle class has barely kept up with inflation, so their incomes remain basically flat. The poor, largely through social programs such as the earned income credeit, have gained marginally.

If you want to decrease the tax burden on the rich, the way to do it is through a restoration of a prosperous middle class, that shares that burden. Democratic-capitalism works best when the majority of the wealth is spread over the larger middle class (not that there are not still wealthy people); they pay more taxes and it aligns economic policy with the majority.

The trillion dollar number is gross, not net. Here's a quote from the CBO report on HR 3200:

"According to CBO's and JCT's [Joint Tax Commission] assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill's insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spe3nding changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years."

According to that, we're within $24 billion/year of breaking even. That estimate is with the ceiling on the public option at $80,000/yr. Drop that ceiling (i.e. no subsidy above the ceiling) to whatever it takes to arrive at the deficit neutral position ($40,000? $60,000?).

When we had higher taxes did we have similar issues to the ones we face today? I am sure things were really swell since the additional revenue must have been used efficiently by our benevolent leaders in congress. I wonder why we would have opted to turn away from that wonderful situation where we were allowed to contribute more to the government and their schemes. Why don't we give all of our money to the government and accept a stipend for our basic expenses.

I know you're being facetious Carlos, but you realize that in the Democrats perfect world you're ending scenario would be standard operating procedure......

Stone 6,

I certainly agree with your arguement that the middle class barely or not even keeps up with inflation. But....that is a symptom of the poor monetary policy by our elected officials on both sides of the aisle. And the rampant printing of money by the current administration is going to make that problem horribly worse.

Our family is in the boat of the 'soak the rich' policies. We are small business owners and will end up keeping less of what we make than the government takes. What a sad day in America when people who worked three jobs to put themselves through college, delayed having a child (yes 1) until we were both over forty, are charged more than half of what we earn (even though we have a net worth in the very low six digits), to help supplement Goldman Sachs and GE (which don't even pay taxes) and who knows how many people/votes they will buy with our tax dollars to provide free healthcare?

We give around 20K per year in charitable contributions (which although we make a fraction of the Obama's wealth, and they have a huge lifestyle paid for by us, we still manage to do better than they do, paying taxes (our percentage is more than they paid) and with charitable contributions. But...we are seriously wondering right now....what's the point of working so hard since...only the well connected can get ahead. The rest of us simply have huge responsibity, huge liability, with no upside. Gosh, not a very rosy environment for investing in business in this nation. Of course that doesn't even include Obama's class warfare rhetoric, like anyone who isn't poor must have doodled other people in the process.

Our current government is quite a disappointment, in my opinion.

Nancy, I want to address only the first paragraph of your post, the part about Medicare / Medicaid reimbursement rates driving up unreimbursed costs:

You are not only 100%, but oddly enough you seem to be one of the very few posters on this board who understands that fundamental issue. You see a great deal of mindless prattle here: "I'm an AMERICAN, this, or I'm an AMERICAN that (just in case we all thought you were a Bulgarian or something) + the maddeningly irritating, "WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!, or the poor souls who believe that they count, and therefore end their impassioned demands with a NOW!!!! but very little cool analysis. All that said, it seems to me that fixing the system we have, especially with an eye toward tort reform and other cost-containment measures, is the way to go.

Richard Vidaurri

Nancy:

the president signs a bill containing a public option, he is in clear and gross violation of the constitution. Hopefully he will be mindful that violating the laws he swore to uphold is an impeachable act, and he will refrain from doing it. We can but hope.

You appear to have something else on your mind besides this health care issue, especially in view of the fact that we do have other programs in place that were put in place by the government and, I don't think I've ever read anywhere where the Presidents at the time of these programs' institution were in danger of being impeached because of the initiation of such programs. So, what's really on your mind. Go on..talk about it!

Nancy -993682

How do you think I feel, when the largest amount of my property tax bill is for schools, yet I have no children.

And no this not a free healthcare plan they are talking about, it will have premiums, to be paid by those who elect to sign on.

Porkbutt you are an idiot

robby did you go to private school? if not who paid for your schooling?

Rain,

Thanks for your thoughtful response, and in fact I have enjoyed the many responses here, being a bit new to the vine.

What's on my mind is the magnitude of corruption which is now openly on display in our Federal Government. The crony capitalism with the direct ties to Goldman Sachs - started long ago, then bolstered by BUSH and now completely out of control. The extended authority to the Federal Reserve -- REALLY? After they caused this whole mess. REALLY? The take over of GM, then violating bond holder rights and giving a controlling interest to the UAW in exchange for their campaign support of Obama. Now the attempted take-over of another 21% of America's economy by the Government under the guise of Universal Healthcare - a "puplic """Option"""?

Then there's the quadrupling of the budget deficit - which was already massive under Bush to begin with (which made my already low opinion of Bush, drop further). The cap and trade tax revenue generation scam, the free choice (unionization bill). This administration is a disaster for capitalism and it WILL cause horrific hardship to this country -- our economy may never recover. That is what is really on my mind.

I could go on, as the horrible proposals are coming at us so frequently and quickly, it's hard to keep track of them all. But it looks like the only jobs to be had soon, will all be for the government, until they run out of other peoples' money to spend.

John,

Thanks for the question.

"Since it would be based on premiums,just like any other insurance, how would it go bankrupt?"

It would like any other company go bankrupt by taking in less revenue than it has expenses. And it all probably sounds well and good that most people will only have to pay a small amount -- or even no amount to get great coverage, that is only sustained from taxing or charging other people not in that system more. Pretty soon, they will cease to comply with the massive burden being placed on them and companies dependent on income from non-direct sources, but no longer able to get it will be forced to charge more to participating clients. And if those clients can't afford it, those companies will go out of business.

Ah...transference. You are transferring your cares regarding "power and control" to Obama. What about just trying to create a more harmonious community?

typical right-wing extremist drivel. Make it personal, ignore the issues. Obama is the anti-christ, right.

MRT...By any chance have you gone back to re-read some of the posts you have written? People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Well said Telmom32!

telmom, I always assume people, and politician as well, have the best interests of the country at heart. Even Bush. I will point out where I think people are lying or being myopic or just plain stupid, but I never question their patriotism or their intent.

Although the way the right lied about Obama's health plan makes me wonder.

typical right-wing extremist drivel.

Is there such a thing as left wing drivel? In my view the democrats are no more liberals than the republicans are conservative. They (the party's) are power hungry partisan organizations. They have more in common with organized crime than they do with liberal or conservative ideology. Here in Illinois they (the machine) are in bed with organized crime. (look it up) Both party's routinely enact policies that infringe on our personal liberty. How can we responsibly commit future generation to higher taxes and bigger deficits? Here is a question for the great thinkers from which ever side wishes to respond. Why is it okay for your side to coerce me and others into your vision and if you do its good, but if the other side does it, it's bad. Isn't the tyranny of the majority or possibly in this case the minority bad no matter who does it. If I am forced into you vision I lose my liberty, last time I checked the constitution protects above all else the liberty of the individual. I am willing to leave you alone, how about respecting my rights as I do yours.

MRT-418756-

"Although the way the right lied about Obama's health plan makes me wonder."

Yeah the same way it makes me wonder the way the left lied about "Blood for Oil" nonsense.

I think both sides have a long record of distortion and deceit. The only people who don't know are the followers of the party's.

No, but keep taking those Social Security checks and that Medicare, Chuckie! Don't stop those big government handouts. Handouts! As in, you never put into Medicare anything close to that which you are receiving! No public option...no reform.

Why would he want that. What can he gain?

Isn't there an old movie called "The Puppetmaster"?

So clever and you add so much to the discussion. You should go listen to Rush some more.

Maybe you should then you would get the truth. You listen to Pelosi, Reid, Schumer that's not exactly smarts coming coming out of that bunch.

The truth coming from Rush! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. That is me belly laughing at your joke. That is a really a good one.

HAHAHAHA the truth from Pelosi...let me "belly laugh".

Hey amused, you can't be serious thinking you are getting the straight skinny from those democrat goons do you? You poor poor person.

Prof1....they keep crying about the 46 million who do not have health care. Everyone has health care. No one is refused health care. Of the 46 million that do not have insurance....you deduct the illegals (as you say above) and the young people who choose not to have insurance, that leaves about 17 million. Deal with them....don't screw with those who wish no changes or force this crap down our throats.

Are you talking about HR 3200? There is a specific provision that forbids non-citizens from receiving government subsidies. What exactly does Section 1802 say?

Prof1

Perhaps you would do well with a reading leson. First off if one looks at the subject of 1802, it has nothing to do with adding anyone to any insurance, secondly section 246 forbids any federal funds from being given to those who not in the US legally.

I love how people keep quoting sections of "the bill" (there isn't one yet, so ????? There are five proposals in committee). They aren't quoting fact, but they think the average reader is too lazy or too illiterate to look up their lies.

This must be the same group that quotes the Bible to justify their sins, transgressions, war, violence, and general "backslidin'".

The bill DOES NOT cover illegal aliens. Another fabulous paranoid extreme Right talking point. You guys are the laughing stock of the world news. They joke about how Americans can tell lies and others will support them - no matter how aggregious those lies may be. They wonder ho a country full of liars can expect to be the leader of the free world?

Prof1 - sure must not mean professor, and if it stands for professional, I can't imagine what profession....

Keep quoting your un-facts.....

What the hell does not having a bill have to do with anything? These are still goofy ideas brought up by goofy democrats cause they think the average person is goofy, I'm sick and tired of hey there aint no bill yet who the hell cares it all still sucks.

It is thinking like this that will keep us from having real reform.  I am a Medical Claims Biller, I work with Insurance companies and doctors everyday.  It is not an issue of bailing anyone out.  The millions of unisured make it more expensive for you and me and the rest of the country to have medical care.  Many people just opt for the ER instead of a doctor because they pay no money upfront and that drives cost through the roof.  If you ask people if they want a Government run program the majority DO want it but they are uneasy about how it will work.  They dont want a take over but they want an option for people who need it. 

Medicaid is a joke.  People don't qualify unless they are homeless or pregnant and most doctors (including the ones I work with) won't accept it.  We need a Public Option to give people an affordable option..not free...affordable because people like me opt for no insurance because I can't afford the premiums through my employer.  You would think that a doctors office would offer affordable care but they do not...$1200 a month is too much for some like me to cover my family.  I need an afford option and the only real way to offer that is a Public Option.

No, we do not need a "Public Option", i.e. government run crap health care! Yes we need reforms, but your reference to Medicaid proves why the government can not run anything properly or efficiently. Other examples of their ineptness include Social Security, Medicare, and the VA.

Besides, the government could care less about health care, as they have stated that they would focus on 15 - 50 year olds. Well, generally that is they group that generally doesn't need much health care. The people outside those ages are the ones they will send home with pain pills to die! The administration is only interested in control and socialism!

Maybe you can't afford your premium, but are you then ready to sacrifice a loved-one for crap government run, rationed health care? Or maybe there are priorities that can be shifted to pay for you and your families health care. It is amazing how things we have that aren't necessities add up.

Government programs are usually always about welfare and bailing out!

That is bull...no one is will die from goverrnment run Healthcare. Seniors on Medicare love it and want to keep it....I talk to them everyday in my doc's office. There will be no rationed care because all the doctors and hospitals remain private. Instead of being paid by Aetna they get paid by the Government like Medicare already does.

Your thinking is just ignorant and scare tactic that informed people dont buy into...Medicare works there just needs to be changes in reimbursment. Ask a senior if they will give up Medicare? They all say NO WAY!

America can do better,

you don't talk to many senior citizens do you? If a senior citizen doesn't have some kind of supplemental insurance, Medicare will bankrupt them as they only cover 80% of customary fees for any given procedure. Have you tried to find a new doctor that accepts Medicare only patients? If you add 47 million new patient into private care, how can there NOT be rationing and delays in treatment.

It's not scare tactics, it's asking the questions they are trying hard not to answer

Yes, I do...I work in a doctor's office in the state of Florida...seniors are 85% of our patients. My doctors take Medicare only patients all the time...many seniors pay the 20% but it is 20% of what Medicare allows for a procedure not what the doctor charges. The only time they would go "bankrupt" would be if they were hosptialized for a long period of time...in which a small policy can be purchased to cover that if they desire.

People need to be informed before they start talking. The 47 million people with no coverage get medical care now...at the ER's across America and stick the hospitals and doctors with the bills so the cost goes up and so does your premiums. I have to "write off" hundreds of dollars everyday for my doctors because the patients have no insurance and no money to pay... they still got the care but now YOU get to pay the bill!

America can do better:

You are the ignorant one! And obviously in favor or welfare! You better take a look at death rates from common diseases in Canada and the UK before you open your mouth and say government run health care doesn't kill! Drugs that are available in the US to treat disease like breast cancer and colon cancer are outlawed in those countries because of their cost. So when you or a loved one gets breast cancer or colon cancer, mainly a later stage - say "goodbye" and tell them they took one for the team!

Again, give up some luxuries in your life and you might be able to take care of your responsibilities.

P.S. America can do better - and we are LOUD AND CLEAR! Hell, the Dems have the votes and they are scared sh**less! The whoosies have no integrity and know their jobs are on the line! Your party won't even stand up for what they supposedly believe in.

America

The CBO has stated that the proposed Public Option will NOT lower ins. premiums, will NOT lower rising health care costs, and it will create a min of 240+ Billion dollar a year deficit.

I know you are trying to push my buttons but that doesnt work with me...people like you who have to get "aggressive and rude" only do it because the truth eludes you so, it's all you have to offer. Your thinking is ridiculous and will go nowhere. Democrats won the last 2 election cycles and will win again because they are taking action and playing in the game....not sitting on the sidelines like Republicans who have no clue how to solve any problem...they just quit in the middle of their term or have an affair to stay busy. Sad

Hopeful American

You are not at all well informed, the average lifespan is higher in both Canada and the UK, than it is in the US. Do you know that many drugs and treatments used for years around the world are banned in the US, because the FDA does not allow then, till they do their own tests, and other countries have the same system, they do their own tests before they allow something in. I know of many people who have been treated for various cancers in both Canada and the UK, in fact I spoke to one just today.

So please quit repeating BS, and get some facts.

Hopeful American, you are the one full of BS.

The main reason lifespans are shorter in the US is the FACT we have one of the most unhealthy lifestyles in the world. Lack of exercise, crappy food, drugs, alcohol....

Get a clue!

America can do better:

Dems have already begun their fall. They will lose the governorships in Virginia and New Jersey this year. The fall will continue next year and again in 2012! You might want to wake up to the "truth" and take a look at the polls to see how America feels about your President!

Robby:

I never said anything about life expectancy. I said death rates from some common diseases are higher in Canada and UK. For example, in Canada, the death rate from colon cancer is about 10% higher than that in the US. Colon cancer is the second cause of cancer death in the US.

Spoke to one today did you? Now that's some BS!!

ScoMata:

So you are another good socialist that wants the government dictating what you can eat, drink, if you can smoke and how much you should exercise? What do we do with you if you don't live up to the criteria?

I know, Obama will send you home with a blue pill!

Medicare is set up to cover medical expenses while the recipients are relatively healthy. As soon as they need extensive care they are bankrupted and put on medicaid, unless they purchased nursing home insurance. They work all of their lives to retire and when it gets sticky the government plan leaves them high and dry, broke. Studys can be skewed and partisans regularly skew surveys and results, trust them at your own risk. Medicare is broke, medicaid is breaking almost every state, I and others limit the number of medicaid patients we see as it is a burden on providers. medicare is better but I don't see how they will cut expenses as the number of recipients grow without cutting benefits, it doesn't add up. Put pen to paper, medicare is going to grow, a huge generation is now becoming recipients in the next 10 years it will be swamped, do you honestly believe the cost of medicare can go down without seriously cutting benefits? Decisions will be made, who should decide, that is the question here. I opt for me making the decision's concerning me, not some partisan hack.

Medicare does a great job in 95% of the cases. The only thing not fully covered is nursing home care.

I have had several aging relatives who became ill and were covered through the entire illness until their deaths. Nothing cut off in their coverage. We took them into our homes so they did not need a nursing home.

They all had good affordable supplemental coverage thru AARP/ United American ($400/month) , so they owed NOTHING, and had no personal financial issues. They were not wealthy people, but had planned properly for their less healthy years. As a family, we took care to ensure they were not in the care of strangers. One of my aunts used to go with her walker down to the senior center to get a free dinner... My cousin finally moved in to help share living costs...Medicare and supplemental covered all her medical needs and she lived at home until her passing.

Those on Medicaide are those who have no supplemental insurance, no family who can help, and no income or savings. I wish we had a national health service where everyone is covered, but conservatives scream about socialism - so I guess they will have to care for their own family members, and not complain if they end up with nothing in a basic nursing home on Medicaide.

Every developed country in the world has a government run insurance plan except us- every country in Europe, Canada, Australia & New Zealand, Japan, Israel and Greece. Over 30 of them. They all have proper care for their children, their seniors do not have to stress about who will pay for their apartment, home care provider, medications or doctor bills. They are not plagued with unpredictable co-payments, discontinued coverage, insurance that is cut off if they change jobs, or refused because you have a pre-existing condition. In Germany young people must do 6-16 months of public service, and some work in senior homes. In all of these countries, the insurance companies are very large and profitable. But there is also no such thing as a medical bankruptcy. The average life expectancy in those countries is longer than here.

What is so dysfunctional about the USA that makes it impossible for us to care for our people in a civilized manner? The other developed nations don't have any more money than us. Their demographics are actually worse than ours regarding the relationship between working people and the older folks the system must support.

This is not about money. It is about priorities. It's about whether we care more about people than we do about money and power. As long as war and a bloated military, building rockets and trips to Mars, allowing corporations to pay execs huge bonuses, and paying no taxes are first on our lists, caring for the ill, the elderly and educating our children will continue to come in second.

Medicare is not broke. Medicaide isn't either. They will be if the system isn't radically fixed. The heart of America is broken - and this is causing our status in the world to shrink. Not because we are weak militarily - because we are weak morally, seeking only wealth and power.

DeeToo, I presently wait for a minimum of 8 month for medicaid reimbursement, I write off a great deal of the service I provide, I don't refuse to provide it I just give it away as many others do. I respectfully disagree with your claim. Medicare by most objective accounts will be in serious trouble in 10 years, when the majority of the baby boomers hit the program. The space program has provided us with advanced technology that has kept us competitive. You confidence in the compassion of our leaders in Washington is misplaced in my view and accusing the nation of being morally deficient because they don't share your vision is interesting and predictable. Quite frankly I am tired of being blamed for the actions of incompetent partisans in Washington. They spend enormous amounts of money inefficiently and now are asking for more and we the taxpayers that make the programs possible are made to feel guilty because we have worthless leaders. If you like you can visit a nursing homes with me and see how well medicare works, talk to a few administrators and see how well medicaid is working, talk to a few recipients and see what they need and are not getting. 95% ? Not even close.

Hopeful American

When I next speak with them, I will tell them you sent your regards.

Hopeful

Drugs that are available in the US to treat disease like breast cancer and colon cancer are outlawed in those countries because of their cost.

Show me the VALID research or study that supports or confirms your claim. Link please.

America can do better::

Re: Hopeful Am: Do you now understand what this is REALLY about....and it ain't the healthcare issue!

Rain7216:

No need to waste my time with those that believe in welfare and socialism! If you haven't heard or seen the information that has been out there, obviously you aren't following along with this issue.

Bingo!

rgh234, I agree but you won't get too far with the self righteous pedants who believe they are much brighter than the people who finance their vision. Freedom is working for my well being and doing as I wish, taking from another for your well being is... think about it...

Carlos, my priorities are G-d, family, country and self in that order. Therefore, self righteous would not apply. I do not not have an ego that requires a higher being to embolden me. Instead, that belief in a higher power is what humbles me. Refer to the "salt of the earth parable".

Freedom to me is self determination and in a way that will not harm others. I determine what I need (not want), then focus on ways of obtaining it myself.

Good for you, I feel the same way. What I do for others is for the sake of my beliefs and my duty to a higher power not the ego of a politician who covets power. I wasn't describing you as self righteous that was for the those who wish to decide for others.

Sharon:

How would you go broke when insurance policies have a cap on yearly out of pocket expenses? You might want to shop around for a better policy - for what you are paying for two, it doesn't sound right.

BCBS is my policy and it is correct. I live in a area that DOES not have HMO's and the pay is very low in the Ozarks. The cap is 9000.00, yearly and I can not afford to pay that yearly. Only one of us can find a darn job right now so I probably will have to give it up along with our home. 9000.00 every year, so in 5 short years if we have to use it since we are 60 we are looking at 45,000.00... tell me how many people can afford an extra 9000.00 per year? This will break us, we are barely making enough to pay our bills now.

Again, you need to look for a different policy. Also, social security kicks in at 62 so that would help.

Hopeful American - the solution to all the world's ills is not going shopping. This person has no money, and there are not a lot of choices for healthcare in some parts of the country. A monopoly does not lead to competitive pricing or responsive service.

If the reforms went through, all Americans could have many choices - and maybe find something less expensive. If you don't think that's a good idea, maybe you can fork over a few thousand to help this person get by. Or is it the Conservative view that this person just needs to buck up and find another job or two until they can pay the outrageous premiums? Or sleep under a bridge? This person wants to work, so the argument about people who aren't working or need assistance being just lazy also doesn't wash. Are you going to chastize them because they haven't planned their future properly? Tell them they need to learn to be more self reliant? Preach to them about the benefits of paying your own way? Let's see - what are the other famous conservative easy answers so you can dismiss the person and their problems?

Hopeful American - you are probably a nice person. But without real thinking and solutions, the millions like this poor person have no options.....so please make a real suggestion that will FIX the problem.....

It's nice to make suggestions, but who really wants to HELP?

Depending on where you work or what area you live in there may be only one option. Also if you have pre-existing conditions you may be stuck in a job because leaving that job could mean losing coverage. I am fortunate in that I have more than one option, and i opted for HMO, being healthy. But just because I have, does not mean that I dont want others to have. Hence I will support the public option. I dont believe in Death panels, illegals getting health insurance or fear socialized medicine. Rationed healthcare we already have, when some health insurance pencil pusher can deny life saving treatment or deny coverage to those that really need it, all in the name of preserving profit. And that profit has risen over 400% since 2000.

Unfortunately a public option, i.e., government run health care, will cover illegals, is socialized medicine, and will have government officials deciding who lives and who dies!

And you will have absolutely no choice - which with a free market you enjoy.

Bob, Since you don't listen, lets see if you can read. There is no plan, let me repeat that NO PLAN, for a single payer system in this country.

Secondly, per haps you can't read, as the the line you use is a quote from one single person, who then goes on to say, but we don't want a US style system. Read the whole article, and they are asking for many of the same reforms that the President is asking for, electronic health records, providers sharing information, and so on.

robby, Oncethe ball gets rolling we will all be folded into the government vision in my view. Do you honestly believe the promises of the herd, democrat or republican?

Carlos Toadvine

When I hear the CEO of any of the major insurance companies starting to yell, perhaps I will agree. But to this point they are not, and you can bet they are going over all this stuff very very carefully.

I think a third party is our only hope of responsible government. I will be glad if the partisans in power fail, you are correct about being thrown under the bus but they (both party's) have been doing that for years. There is no difference between the party's they both are motivated by power and money and this ruse is about money and the power it gives them.

why just one other party? why not several? I suspect revelwoodie may want to associate with a party that advocates a government run public plan (correct me if I'm wrong), while Carlos' inclination would be more liberatrian, focusing on less government (you can correct me if I'm wrong). I think that a lot of the current dysfunction is a result of bi-polarity. left vs. right. lib vs. conservative. this plays to the extremists, so we get to allign with either Pelosi and Dean or Boehner and Palin. Ughh!

Just had to throw the "race" card, didn't you!

Not all repubs are racist but all racist are repubs

Sharpton,Jackson,Black Panthers etc.etc.!!!

I will accept Sharpton,Jackson,Black Panthers etc.etc.!!! if republicans would accept kkk, neo nazi, redneck, and biggot. and we would which who would look worse in the eyes of humanity and the world

Obama is the biggest racist of all!

You have no proof of that but it's nice to see rethugs call someone a racist and not know the definition of the word. Idiots as usuall. The rethugs should rename the game from simmon says to fox news says

kjs54...I think you are wrong...he is married to the biggest racist of all though.

I must say the comments above are so predictable and consistent with partisan logic that it gives me reason to believe we will continue to have the same irrelevant incompetent leadership we have endured for my entire lifetime. And the same semi literate defenders of the herds will continue to parrot the same tired generalizations about the other side. Here is a flash for you partisan Einsteins out there, do you know why neither party holds power very long? Heres the answer, they are so incompetent that they lose public support in just a few short years and since we really don't have a good choice we elect somebody from the other side, because both party's suck!

You people still don't get it. YOU WON…YOU DON"T NEED ANY REPUBLICAN SUPPORT!!!

How many times do you idiots need to be reminded of this for christ sake! Stop blaming the republicans, because the demos can pass ANYTHING they like.

They wont do it because they know the AMERICAN PEOPLE think this stinks. And if they pass this with just the demo vote…the demos take ALL THE BLAME for everything that goes wrong with that. And their not about to do that.

You hit the nail on the head!

Govt mule,

Dont go against the libby play book.

It is never their fault. They inherited the problem, They didnt understand the depth of the problem, its the republicans making up lies thats the problem..

Its NOT MY FAULT !!

These scoundrels like all partisans want to get reelected, they don't do very many things well but they can see a tidal wave coming. They have thought it over and would rather piss off their predictable followers, who will probably vote for them anyway. Wouldn't it be interesting if we actually looked outside of the 2 party's that strangle the process.

Obama doesn't have the democratic votes to get it passed in the Senate. Too close to mid-term elections; the politicos want to wait to see how the wind is really blowing.

tri23

Point number 2:

You mean like the post office?.........no that wont work...they are bankrupt

So you mean the railroad?.....no....sorry bad example.......bankrupt.

I got it !......Social security!!.....nope ...sorry..... i blew it again

The programs you mentioned did not, I repeat, did not go broke, the money you and I paid in taxes to cover them was stolen and used for other things. The same goes for our roads and bridges. The cost of our military is more than most other countries combined. Almost every dollar we pay in on income tax goes to the FED so they can print OUR money. Wake up and stop buying the lies spewed by Both Parties. Oh and President Bush wanted Amnesty for the illegals also.

Luvenia--

It doesnt really matter if the money was there and taken to pay other things. Simple point is the money isnt there and that is the defination of being broke.

But ill go with you on your it was taken to for another project ( which it was) for SS.

Explain why the post office is broke? No money was taken from there for other areas.

Even Obama is saying that the post office cannot do things right, adn the private sector (fedex and ups) do it better.

SEC has reported that the 10 largest health insurers have reported a profit of 428% from 2000 to 2007. Health insurance CEOs averaged 11.9 million in compensation every year. The Labor Dept. Consumer Index has reported a 4.4% increase in health insurance for the 12 months ending in June--that on top of a 4.2% increase from the previous year. Wages in the private sector rose only 1.6%. Watson Wyatt 2 to 5-year survey show that employers expect salaries increases to remain the same or decrease. Given the consolidation of the insurance industry in the last 10 years and single insurer's dominance in regional markets, if not a public option to get health insurers to compete to lower prices, what then? Reforming health care and help boost the buying power of consumers (70% of the economy) and help US businesses compete globally and maybe even hire.

you dont make sense. Medicaid is a public option and you call it a joke. Which leads to my point ....if the Govt cant even handle Medicare/Caid then how the heck can they do the rest.

Medicaid plans are state run programs and they are not a "Public Option" it is for the poorest of the poor and you must be approved which most aren't. It doesn't offer quality care, it's just enough coverage that if something bad happens to you then you will be covered or if you are pregnant, you are covered then thrown off after the birth.

On the flip side, I bill Medicare (a government run program) every day and they are great. No denials for care, no "rationing", no authorizations or denials for Pre-existing conditions. Yes, they need to cut fraud and waste to make it more affordable but that is part of the reform. It proves a government option can work but it has to be fine tuned and it also shows that private insurers aren't out of business because seniors have Medicare as an option.

Medicaid is the public option for those that cant afford the private option.If you think the govt can get all the uninsurables on insurance at $10 copays for less than half the price of private plans you are misguided.

No, it is not. You can't just can't go to Medicaid and say "I would like coverage because I can't afford private coverage". You have to be "in need" which is below the poverty line. I process Medicaid denials everday. It's not an "option " for people that are above the poverty line but can't afford high premiums, high deductibles and copays. No one asking for a hand out, just an AFFORDABLE option which the private insurers can't seem to offer

Health care coops are a public option. they are to health care what credit unions are to banking. Local, controlled by members, consumer oriented, and not government.

Yeah, but there is no driving down the cost with that tactic. The same insurance companies that are ripping us off now, offer the plans to the co ops. There has to be incentive to lower premiums

Thanks for your knowledgeable and intelligent insight, America. So much on this vine is just idiotic opinions and hysteria. Every little bit of info helps enormously. Wish the Dems could get out this information over the screaming!

So America what type of information does the government collect in regards to its Medicaid patients?

Why can't the Medicaid program be revised to include low to lower-middle class patients and expanded to provide more comprehensive coverage?

Why can't the politicians make a closed door deal with the insurance companies to provide insurance to those with preexisting conditions as well as lower rates? I mean they are making back room deals with the pharmaceutical industry to provide inexpensive drugs? Its not fair to demonize insurance as money grubbing without piling on the pharmaceutical industry.

Why can't the government finance and regulate Medicare/Medicaid efficiently, but in your mind, will be able to perform this miracle for one of the largest entitlement programs in the history of the U.S? In addition to these two programs having such issues, our veterans suffer the same problems with their health care if not worse.

So three for three government controlled health care programs suffer from shortfalls, and we want to create the mother of all programs to encompass them. Without even trying to fix the systemic problems with the others this one is doomed to fail and bankrupt the country in the process.

People cannot see the short falls of a government controlled health care system until it is in place, and they are surrendering information to the government they never thought they would. You can not tell me the government will not track those who seek mental health care. You can not tell me that the government will not mandate those who they classify as obese to loose weight. What about smoking? You think the government is going to let you smoke on their dime? If you take government health care will you be told you must get annual flu shots, and vaccinations? What happens if you pee in a cup and the government finds out you are doing drugs? What happens then?

See I ask these questions because military personal surrender such information, and perform such tasks when they enlist in the military so the government can track them. Most of these questions encompass 90% of the (what is the number now) 50 million individuals begging for government health care.

Personally, I would not even consider government controlled health care until they iron out, or outline privacy provisions.

And ask yourself, would you still feel safe providing all this information to the government if the Republicans were in charge again?

I agree with your posts America, and yes we can do better. I'm fed up with all this screaming at town meetings and the side show. I propose we make a portable grave yard of all the people who have died due to denial of care and other insurance "policies", (talk about death panels), and take it on a tour of America. It could have pictures and brief histories of the victims as to why they were denied or not covered for meds,etc. and the outcome ( death). This is not a Democrat or a Republican problem this an American problem. We are allowing our citizens to die due to puposeful negligence and we must stop it. We have a chance to change the course of events in this country and we must not blink. We must fix this problem.

I can give you one reason why people might be screaming at town meetings. I sent a list of questions to 4 of my congressmen, and I received one e-mail back. It read like a resume, and did not address one of my concerns. If you cannot get answers from your own state politicians, or their representative, would that not enrage you?

It would be nice to have a crystal ball to make sure you are not substituting one large problem for another larger one. Oh and BTW will your portable grave yard include those who have died while on the VA's dime?

SEC has reported that the 10 largest health insurers have reported a profit of 428% from 2000 to 2007. Health insurance CEOs averaged 11.9 million in compensation every year. The Labor Dept. Consumer Index has reported a 4.4% increase in health insurance for the 12 months ending in June--that on top of a 4.2% increase from the previous year. Wages in the private sector rose only 1.6%. Watson Wyatt 2 to 5-year survey show that employers expect salaries increases to remain the same or decrease. Given the consolidation of the insurance industry in the last 10 years and single insurer's dominance in regional markets, if not a public option to get health insurers to compete to lower prices, what then? Reforming health care and help boost the buying power of consumers (70% of the economy) and help US businesses compete globally and maybe even hire.

Old administration BS:

http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20060919115623-70677.pdf

One could say the same about the drug companies thagan, but instead this new administration is making it easier for them to do exactly what you described the insurance industry as doing? On top of it they make billions annually, and if they get their way with government choice health care profits will skyrocket.

Why are you not concerned with this? Why is this not in the news more? Because this administration is orchestrating the plan!

Its not fair to shoot one lame horse, and put the other one out to pasture!

you are wrong. Obama wants single payer and will do whatever it takes to get there.

I don't think he would mind a single payer system...but that is NOT what he campaigned on. You seem to be unaware of the differences within the Democratic Party...maybe you should have paid more attention.

maybe you should check out his vedios on youtube saying single payer is what he wants.

Maybe you should pay attention.

stone6

I don't think he would mind a single payer system...but that is NOT what he campaigned on. You seem to be unaware of the differences within the Democratic Party...maybe you should have paid more attention.

He campaigned on quite a lot of things that he hasnt done. Or maybe you should go google his speaches in ( I think its 2003 adn 2007 ) where Obama said he supports and wants a single payer system. How he knows he cannot do this right of way and it might take 10 years to get it, but we will get it.

Single Payer system is the bread and butter to the demo party. They have been drooling at the mouth to make it happen for a long time.

maybe you should check out his vedios on youtube saying single payer is what he wants.

Maybe you should pay attention.

Well...we won't get it this time...and it will be up to the private insurance companies to cut costs and remain competitive. Plus, Obama has to succeed on many different fronts to be reelected.

You may as well get used to it. You lost an election. You (meaning Republicans) left the economy in a mess. Expect government micro-management of the economy and increased taxes for the next 6-8 years as we try and rebuild an economy. If you want to take part stop endorsing economic policies that put us here and join the 21st century. Romney was the best candidate you had...and he was rejected because of his religion and his ability to compromise with Democrats.

Stone-

The problem is you arent not fixing anything. You are driving us farther into a hole.

Do a little research on what economic policies got us to where we currently are. Many Economists a lot smarter then I am have been saying that when the house market\bubble busted into a million pieces it was the trigger to our current problems.

Now lets take a look back at who changed the laws concerning home loans.. Clinton did that. His everyone should own their own home and all that BS. This depression has been a long time comming. Hell Bush even told congress about Fanny and Freddie and they ignored him. Do just a bit of research instead of touting party lines.

Yes the Dems won the last election, and just like last time they were in power they are going to the extream left and loosing the support of the independants that pushed them into power. 2010 will see a push more to a balanced composition of the house/senate, and who knows what will happen in 2012.

Republicans were in control of Congress from 1994 to 2006...give me a break. You cannot argue on one hand that Congress is controlled by special interests and on the other hand, Barney Frank "forced" banks to make bad loans. The current melt-down was due to deregulation...and the lack of enforcement of existing regulations...pur and simple. The CRA, et al made a small contribution to the problem by opening a door...but financial institutions rushed right in for the fast buck without any feeling of accountability.

But, if you like...keep your head stuck in the sand. Democratsmight have problems in 2010 and 2012...if there were a Party to run against them. Who are you thinking of: Rush? Sean? Maybe Sara? Hahahahaha. Dream on.

Stone6 - George Bush himself, along with John McCain and other Republicans starting warning Congress in 2003 about the mortgage problems and Fannie Mae, etc. Barney Frank was at the front of the line of folks refusing to let Congress fix things before it got worse. He loudly proclaimed that there was "nothing wrong" with what was going on. Dems bear every bit as much responsbility for the economic mess we are in - it is not party specific, period.

That is simply a lie. For one thing, Bush pushed the housing bubble. It was part of the "Ownership Society." It was also just about the only bright spot in the domestic economy. The majority of jobs created during his terms in office were in housing and government (Homeland Security).

Secondly, Barney Frank didn't become Chairman of the House Finance Committee until January 2007, following the Democratic victories the preceeding November. The subprime mortgage foreclosures began in earnest during the summer of 2006, while Republicans still held majorities in both the Senate and the House.

You simply cannot rewrite history to fit your economic ideology.

Frank did defend Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac after that...I listened to him do it on CSPAN during one of his committee hearings...but by that time it was too late...and largely irrelevant. Most contemporary historians and analyses point the finger at Wall Street for allowing the melt-down to occur. I could go on for several pages...from the CRA forward. The CRA and Clinton pressured banks to do more business in low-income minority neighborhoods...but pressuring and forcing are entirely different things. And, no one forced banks to make no doc or NINJA loans.

But, if you have evidence to the contrary I'd like to see it.

Sorry...but the basic outline of the Obama health care reform plan was an election issue...remember elections? He received a majority of the vote and now we are going to have health care reform. He has the votes. Too bad you don't like it; maybe you should have worked harder to get McCain elected?

stone6

Sorry...but the basic outline of the Obama health care reform plan was an election issue...remember elections? He received a majority of the vote and now we are going to have health care reform. He has the votes. Too bad you don't like it; maybe you should have worked harder to get McCain elected?

Come on Stone,

Obama was elected because of the hatred of Bush. He and his team did a real good job of linking McCain to Bush.

I have no problem with health care reform, what we are getting is not reform. Its reinventing the wheel. Though you are wrong about him having the votes, IF he had the votes it would of already passed. His own party doesnt want it.