Obama to set higher bar to claim state secrets

"American"----how do you call yourself that? He is simply returning our nation back to what it was intended to be in the first place---(before Bush/Cheney "semi-nazi" days). If our national security interests are there, then secrecy is appropriate, but just because some ultra-conservative Bushies want to avoid embarrassment, etc, they will not be allowed to declare something have national interest secrecy hiding it.

More aid and comfort to our enemies by the domestic-enemy-in-chief. I would like to think Obama is just naive but all evidence points to his deep rooted hatred for America.

It is very sad and a little disappointing that slightly more than half the electorate worships this Chavez wanna be. It just goes to show you how gullible and stupid slightly more than half of the electorate is.

Nothing more than living proof of the "dumbing down" of America.

This is America not General Motors. Please stop running this country like it is a company and start sticking up for the USA.

I feel like Obama is ashamed of being American.

Is this the "Change That We Can Believe In?"

THE FAILING OF OUR GOVERNMENT CONTINUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The rights of criminals and terrorists over the security of the American citizen are obviously a priority to our government. How can anyone of us endorse this treasonous exploitation of our Constitution. This is the same government that had many of its sites shut down by foreign government hackers a few months ago but yet they want to limit our national security agencies abilities to defend against that. Other countries, Australia and Britains government sites have also been hacked with malicious code infiltrations.

THE GOVERNMENT MUST STOP HOPING EVERYONE WANTS TO BE OUR BEST FRIEND FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!

This is never going to be the case. There are individuals, such as the group just caught in New York and Colorado, that want to and will cause harm to innocent Americans in their religious zealotry. The fact that these terrorists are here and had plotted to possibly bomb or attack transit services or sports stadiums indicates that despite our childish efforts to REACH OUT to these people they will CUT OFF OUR HAND!!!!!!

THE OUTRAGE SHOULD BE AGAINST THESE TERRORISTS RATHER THAN OUR SECURITY FORCES!!!!

But when our government hems and haws over national security efforts and the war in Afghanistan and continues to force their other socialist agendas this should not come as a surprise. Perhaps one day, God forbid, when one of these terrorist group successfully plants a bomb in a high school of 2,000 innocent children or in a crowded college football stadium and cause thousands of deaths these LIBERAL SISSY'S will WAKE UP!!!!!!

OH WAIT, THEY ALREADY DID ATTACK US ON 9/11!!! HOW QUICKLY THE WEAK FORGET!!!!!

So Obama now wants to tell ALL our State secrets and war strategies to the enemies and let them know how to kill us all easier! What a guy!

You might want to consider that what you're calling the original state is one that did not have the telecommunications we have today and could not send our secrets around the World in seconds!

While he is mentioning illegal wire-tabs, he is not telling all he wants to throw open to people who should not have that information.

Once I saw this article I couldn't wait to read the comments and I must say you folk didn't disappoint!

Ummmm , HELLO Earth to American citizens! This is the same Bozo you all voted into office after he proclaimed, many times. I HATE AMERICA! Go figure?

Our elected officials, all of them, are sworn to uphold the Constitution. When do they. Any of them that doesn't should be removed from office immediately and the people should start making plans to do so decades ago.

Nor did you "Nasty Liberal" . . . nor did you. Talk about the dumbing down of America! It is almost as if you don't realize what radical Islam has set as a goal. Do you really believe the folks we captured and put in prison we just walking down the street? Wake-up before it is too late . . . PLEASE.

leave_my_health_care_alone I thought the exact same thing when I read this. It's funny that the only thing top secret to him is his past.

"priority . . . to bring a greater degree of transparency and accountability to a process that has been shrouded in secrecy."

Yes, and I'll bet Russia, China, Iran, etc., are concerned about their governmental transparency and accountability too! And WHY would Obama 'grandfather' this change into investigations which have already taken place under previous policy?

Pater: Obama is turning the country back to "what it was intended to be in the first place", before Bush/Cheney? Oh, I guess you've forgotten all about 9/11???? Sorry, America can never be what it was post 9/11.

This policy is not really a change at all. It amounts to an open declaration that instead of having decisions made based on law, or even a set policy, they will instead be made based on politics. The career lawyers will not make the decisions, the political higher-ups will be making the decisions. Thus, a continutation of their policy that if it will make Bush look bad, it is not a national security interest. If it makes Osama look bad, then it must be kept secret. I must admit, I'm well beyond yearning for the Bush years, I'm reaching the point of yearning for the Carter years. At least Carter was merely incompetent. Osama is downright dangerous.

Meh, this seems like an empty gesture. Since the state would have to convince a judge in the first place under the old guidelines, I don't see the Att'y General making much of a different decision on it than the judge would, unless of course, the Att'y General was instructed to do so by the President.

A great example of someone thats unAmerican!

Tell me what you think about this...

Yesterday, the White House held a dinner celebrating Ramadan. The President Obama praised Islam as “a great religion and its commitment to justice and progress.”

But remember how earlier this year, Obama refused to host a service at the White House for the National Day of Prayer, saying he intended to observe the event “privately.”

How come one is private and the other over-the-top public?

And why have we not seen this story in the mainstream media?

Tomorrow Obama is hosting a National Day of Islamic Prayer next door to the White House.

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

"What we're trying to do is . . . improve public confidence that this privilege is invoked very rarely and only when it's well supported," said a senior department official involved in the review, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the policy had not yet been unveiled. "By holding ourselves to this higher standard, we're in some way sending a message to the courts. We're not following a 'just trust us' approach."

So you are the spin Dr today Senior Department Official????? This is just more legal double talk designed to make the bleeding-heart liberals happy and further undermine the security of the United States. Stop trying to make America a third world country!

This is essentially the same standard the Carter Admin used, and people died as a result.  Foreign intelligence stopped co-operating with the US becasue they were concerned that their people would be compromised or killed.  It took better than a decade to undo the damage that Carter did.  Wonder how long it will take this time and how many people will die first?

I can't help but wonder about you folks that think your government can do no wrong (protect you from the boogeyman by violating the Constitution with torture and rendition) and in the same breath say that your government cannot do anything right ( medicare / social security).

Which is it? Do you really trust these people? Protect your constitution and the rights and liberties that go with it. State secrets, while I'll agree that there are some I'll agree even more with the idea that the phrase has been abused more often than not.

The "traitors" are the ones that ignore our Constitution, present and past administrations.

The clown is making me feel less safe each and every day. I just hope we make it to Nov. 2010, Nov. 2012.

So does this mean that that he will inforce the librals from taking picture of CIA agents?

Does it mean that there will be know investigation into the CIA? (you know info will be leaked)

Does this mean that people that remove FOUO or Secret labeled info. from facilities will be charged.

OR is he coving his 6 from something. (So the cocspiracy folks will claim)

This wrong party is in power to enforce tighter OPSEC.

And my biggest wuestion will News agencies be charged for releasing information related to national security. (Like when we were tracking OBL and the NYT ran article letting the world know we had his SATphone Freq. and he that week stopped using it.)

Or does he want tighter control on what comes out of his dealings with other nations?

Hmmm! This action on obama's part proves he fell out of a tree! This idiot should be impeached on the grounds of pure stupidity.

But then what do you expect when, in my opinion, stupid democrats elect a baboon for president.

You conservatives are laughable. When Obama's Justice Department was arguing in favor of Bush policies, you were lambasting him. Now, when he makes good on his campaign promise for more transparency, you lambaste him as well. All you're doing is proving that he can do nothing right in your eyes. Good luck to you all.

-----

Fred-256289

I think you're absolutely right.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/09/23/phil-kerpen-browner-secret-white-house-power-grab/

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

Dennis posted this earlier in this thread. Everyone needs to read this and then decide which side of the fence obama stands on. He did not state in this quote about it being religious, it is a politically based thought, in his own words.

Barack Obama is systematically destroying our country...

Sweet! Now how about releasing the White House Visitation logs? How about releasing the Flight Logs of Air Force One bussing New York? How about removing the law President Obama instituted about indemifying Corporations from law suits for illegal surveillance?

This is nothing more than trying to placate a voter base.

When are they "going to hold themselves to a higher standard?" Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Dodd, Rangle are crooks...it would be nice if they don't hold themselves to a higher standard...then the American people could. I think Rangle should be investigated for tax fraud...but, then half of Obama's cabinet are tax frauds already. This administration could not function if they were to hold themselves to a higher standard. And for the record, Bush was not the Nazi...look at the present administration...they come closer to a Hitler style than any other before.

duncancl...

Please stop running this country like it is a company and start sticking up for the USA.

That's the problem...he's never run anything in his life...except his mouth!

I can see it now on CNN. Osama sits in his cave watching CNN as they film the house deciding on funding to send in special ops teams to capture or kill him. As he watches this on CNN a thought caption appears above Osama's towel covered head. I think this might be a good time to more and thank you brother Obama for you help in revealing your "state secrets."

I just don't understand why Obama doesn't simply admit the fact that his real agenda is to destroy America slowly from within. Starting with our capitalist. free enterprising economic base that the radical Muslims dislike and finally with or rights (especially the right to worship as we please) that the radical Muslims simply hate and want to kill us for. Probably the only real reason they haven't performed another 9/11 again is because they can see that Obama is doing their job for them. Is anyone out there aware of the fact that Senator Baucus's proposed mandatory purchase of health insurance is unconstitutional? Not only is it unconstitutional but no where in our Constitution does it give Congress or the POTUS the authority to impose this "oppressive" type of tax, in fact it prohibits it. However this doesn't seem to be phasing many in Congress and probably won't phase the self-proclaimed Harvard Law Professor not POTUS Obama. I believe he once said words to this effect. You people use your constitution far too much and for the wrong reasons. Well other than to protect our rights and protect ourselves from our own government (when they make it necessary) why shouldn't we use our Constitution, that is what it was written for!

What a bunch of tea party wannabe losers writing here. The great neo-conic republican hero Ronald Reagan sold weapons to Iran to get elected and that was top-secret national security. They tried to keep the Iran-Contra affair top secret too and it took the Gipper's death to get only some of the information about this greedy cutthroat crime under the guise of national security. Now so many anal-retentive twits are attacking Obama for doing one thing he said before he was elected, create a more open government answerable to the people. The shame is in the words of the fascists writing here under the umbrella of conservativizm.

Another LAW instituted for our Socialist Naivete Extraordinaire's Wholesale Attack on our Intelligence Agencies as part of OBAMA'S WAR ... ON AMERICA.

Wow.

Barack Hussein Obama is orders of magnitudes MORE dangerous to America than Osama Bin Laden.

Let's see how many American Civilians die because from Obama's War On America.

There's three more years till his term ends. That's a lot of time ...

And time always tells.

Uhhh, Ken...

This is the 21st century, Obama is POTUS now...and for a long 39 months to come.

All of you that have commented that the POTUS is a danger to our country, and is undermining the National Security and tramping on the Constitution......write your Congressman and demand that impeachment precedings begin. If not, then 2010 will end their term. It won't be an easy task, but it's something that needs to be done immediately. This man is getting away with much more than WaterGate. If he continues it will be mass-murder. Even BinLaden can see what the libs can't.

Uhhh Uhhh cantake the 21st century is only 9 years old. The people like Samuel Bush who sold weapons to our enemies and US tax payers, Prescott Bush who was Hitler's banker and George (Poppy, CIA, Carlyle, Bin Laden, Zapata Oil, Kennedy Assassinator) Bush, GW (pet Goat 9/11, WMD, Halliburton, Blackwater) Bush have been in power for 100 years. It is time to uncover what these pond scum have done to get their wealth and power. I'm mad at Obama because he has not done enough to expose the outright crimes against humanity and nature that these conservative heroes have perpetrated upon the world.

Rita...

How dare you, you right-wing-religious-fascist-nut job neo-nazi...

Sarcasm, of course.

Ken,

Bwahahahahahahaaa...

President Obama; "Attorney General Holder, this is a State secret."

AG Holder; "You've convinced me Mr. President."

Not everything need to be transparent. We dont need to know what operations are happening and who the NSA is listening to. OPSEC it keep us soldiers alive, Geraldo Ravia was taken out of Iraq when he drew some lines in the ground. I like to come home with the same amout of soldier I left with. There are a few thing that should remain quiet.

The most important is what we are doing and what we have. Even our own allies are gathering Intel on us. Not everything need to published, you would sleep better at nigh nowing that certain things are not public.

canttakeit

HOLY COW, I checked out the link, WTH! When does this madness end.

2012 the madness will end. We have secrets to keep us safe, plain and simple. All the government has shown is that they can't keep secrets. You dont see Iran nor Russia posting everything about thier capabilities on the net. Americans are destoying the country from within we are our own worst enemy when it comes to secrets. Their is always someone in the group who has to brag or feel that the public should know. I am thankful that our country could keep D-Day a secret. Think IF secretss were revealed and how it would impact your life. Honestly Really think about it. how safe is everyone with every one of our enemies knowing our secrets. They have the same access to the net and MSM as we do.

Face it, there is no end to "how low" this President is willing to stoop to achieve his agenda. Too bad he doesn't have an agenda that is based upon, and to benefit those actually LIVING in America. He has spent too much of his formative years outside the US, and subsequently has no real clue about REAL America!

1screamineagle:

Not everything need to be transparent.

I leave you a quote. I believe that our forefathers lived in a different world, and a different time so much of what they knew does not apply today. This quote does, however:

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Ben Franklin

I am tired of you whimps willing to give away your so-called liberty to fight religious fanatics half a world away. The reality is there are whackjobs in our own nation (Timothy McVie anyone?) who kill for reasons the rest of us do not understand. That is life.

I do not spend my life cowering in fear nor will I raise my daughter to do so.

And I certainly would not trade my right to hold my govt accountable to protect national security secrets that are defined as such by people in power without proper review.

The bottom line is most of you on this thread hate Obama, nothing he can do or not do will satisfy you. He could extend the Bush tax cuts for the rich, you'd b!tch about that. He could find and kill Bin Laden, you'd b!tch about that. He could de-regulate the markets like Bush did, you'd b!tch about that.

Must be nice to have so much pent-up hatred, must make for a satisfying existence.

Listen, I am no apologist for the guy, and I don't agree with all of his policies. But my word, so of you are beyond drinking the right wing Kool-aid, you're doing keg stands with it.

Obama to set higher bar to claim state secrets = bad grammar.

Obama to set bar higher for State secrets claims = better but still off.

The problem is so many administration used "national security" to hide the embarassing or illegal so this would be a great victory for democracy if true. There's no way you can ever make an informed vote if your own democratically elected government won't tell you what it's doing.

JerryF and checkerbattery -

Thank you for a well reasoned breath of fresh air here on the vine.

This kind of idiotic thinking can set US security back 20 years, and take another 20 to restore it when we are bombed back into our senses.

If Obama wants so much transparency - let him drop SS protection, publish his schedule on Yahoo, and tear down the fences around the White House and anywhere else he goes. That is what he is doing to the country, so I say - YOU FIRST!

Cantakenomore? Unless he gets Impeached when the acorn charges get filed under the RICO ACT. (wink) http://bit.ly/SCJcX

Heres a little rundown on the group Obum calls his pet project, as long as I am in power ACORN will always have a seat at the dinner table, and yes I have the video saved on my pc of him saying this for all the liberal nutjobs on here. http://bit.ly/SCJcX

In 1 year BHO will spend more on welfare than bush on ENTIRE Iraq war! http://bit.ly/2Bnj7t

Mirac - and? Who did the war in Iraq help? What a waste of time, money and most of all lives.

Some of you people are seriously insane. I mean really. Impeachment? by making it harder to hide stuff from the American People? You know, US? The ones government is answerable to? My God National Security does NOT give them the power to act outside of the Constitution or International treaties, laws or agreements to which we are a party. You people act as if he's going to start selling state secrets. No, he's making it harder to declare embarrassing or criminal activities state secrets, because they were never meant to be. A step towards a more open and transparent government, which was one of his big campaign pledges. So you know, those of us who voted for him are happy with it, those of you who've hated him from the start just get to make up more insane conspiracies to @!$%# and moan about. My God you people have been so deluded as to think that Russia or China should be the model for how a government operates? REALLY? Are you @!$%#ing kidding me????

And that Obama quote? it's not even a correct copy/paste, let alone in context. He never called them his Muslim brothers, and he was referencing the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII, and saying that would never happen under his leadership. So, get a clue. Those kind of statements are what won him the election, not jingoistic uber-patriotism your ilk seems to respond to.

This is great. I knew that the same people who have been wailing and gnashing their teeth about Obama failing to provide the transparency in government he promised, are now doing an about-face and wailing about too much transparency, and the need for national security.

There is literally nothing to dislike about this announcement, unless you're someone who didn't vote for Obama in 2008, will not vote for him in 2012, and will complain about everything his administration does. For these unhappy people, it's not political, it's personal.

The NBC poll today (and yesterday's ABC poll) has Obama's approval at 51%. It's not great, but it's a lot higher than everyone else in Washington. Once health care reform passes, it will go up. And a year from now, when the economy is solidly improving, his approval will return to his honeymoon numbers.

Im with USAWolf on this one. I've read alot of your post before, I like the way you talk brother

Thank you Tyler, in light of the census worker found hung, I think we can see what the right wing whackos are up to.

The rest of us put up with 8 years of Bush. They can't even put up with 8 months of Obama.

If you don't respect the man, fine. But this is America, respect the office our get the hell out!!!!

How surprised the wingnuts will be when they push it just a little further and find the liberals bought all the bullets.

They'll finally find out the true meaning of liberal and belatedly recall it's Harry S Truman who dropped the bomb.

To JerryF - Since this is America, you have the right to not live you life in fear, but what are you going to do when the next attack comes? Who are you going to blame it on? How are you going to rationalize the failure of our Govt. to keep us secure? This is another case of "elevated" morality. It is great that you possess that morality, unfortunately our enemies do not. They are not going to make decisions based on "your" morality. This has been the primary reason we have had to suffer through with repeated attacks from terrorists. (The arrogant assumption that America should make their decisions based on a morality/belief system our enemies do not share and hold in contempt.) Those, like you, stand in the way of getting the job done. We will never truly be safe until the terrorists are defeated. I have no interest in watching these terrorists hurt Americans or even those in their home country. None of us deserve it. I am sure, if you give a response to this, it will be filled with comments like, "we shouldn't descend to their level" etc. We shouldn't have to, but this isn't a perfect world, and sometimes, the real solution is not pretty or "PC."

The arrogant assumption that America should make their decisions based on a morality/belief system our enemies do not share and hold in contempt.

It's not arrogant, it's enlightened. People like YOU would have us behave no better than them. Sorry, but this country does not and should not cater to the lowest common denominator. Either you have a moral and ethical boundary, or you do not. Behave according to the world you want, not the world you have, to paraphrase some old sage advice.

Capt Tripp, tell that to those who died at the Twin Towers. I'm sure they will agree with you. (Not) Sticking with that "enlightened" morality gave those folks the death they didn't deserve. Are you making them martyrs? That would also be descending to the level of the terrorists as well!

Actually many of them WOULD agree with me, plenty of people who lost loved ones on 9/11 protested our use of torture and the war in Iraq. I believe Bill O'reilly called one of them a traitor and a coward on his show for it. Kid didn't want his father's death used as justification for war and/or torture. What was HE thinking, amirite.

obama and the democrats are totally lining the United States up for another incident. He is making it easier and easier for another terrorist attack.

Can someone please impeach this stupid President..he is putting us all at risk...maybe he should of had a real job before he ran for President..maybe he should of stayed in congress a few more terms and got some real life experience, maybe he should of visited our troops on the war front a few times instead of writing speeches and getting his picture taken a million times..............either way with BO in office were ALL screwed!

Washington your BO stinks!

So Obama wants to eliminate secrets used to combat America-hating foreign powers, but grant the government NEW powers to control and manupulate its citizens while dissolving the borders and U.S. sovereignty.

Obama's health care reform is just one example. We could do a lot to streamline health care and make it less expensive and more efficient, but that's not what the leftists want. They WANT a government takeover. This will add enormous beareaucratic costs (high taxes to break the middle class), rationing (person A gets the surgery, while person B gets pain meds untill they die), and invasion of privacy (real-time access to personal financial and medical records).

Some secrets you can bet Obama will not give up are: his (and G.W. Bush's) activities with the "Peace and Prosperity Agreement", newly renamed the "North American Leader's Summit" by Obama. This is code for the (North American Union...oh yes, it's real).

American,

well I surely don't want anything to happen to the President except to be kicked out of the White House along with all his commie friends in 2012....If anything was to happen to him it would set off riots like we have never seen before and those 2 little girls would not have a father.....I really hope and pray that the SS can and will keep the President safe...We are Americans and part of the glory of this country is that we can voice our opinion and we can fight using the system. Praying and voting are the best ways to fight.......God Bless our Country

Hmmm, these bonejeads on capitol hill still not addressing unemployment? Oh, that's right, the stimulus is supposed to keep unemployment below 8%. What's that, it's alomost 10%?.....

More closer to 15% . But they will lie, and fix the numbers, since they wont count the people that cannot collect unemployment because it ran out. Who cares, we will soon have our overinflated health scare program, and we will be broke after the crooks in D.C. steal it blind!

Obama tries to hide the fact that his most frequent visitors have links to Socialism and Communism and the liberals are worried that Bush hid something regarding how those people who killed 3,000 innocent Americans were treated. Go figure! Thank heaven that these folks were not in power during Hitler's reign of terror otherwise they would want us to file suit against Eisenhower and MacArthur for being mean while coddeling the folks who ran Hitler's death camps. I just cannot believe how far some supposedly educated people will go to avoid using common sense and support a party of idiots!

I agree, I am beginning to really worry about another 9-11 more and more each day. While he keeps secret the guest list for $100. a pound stake dinners at the White house on Thursdays. Wonder if birth certificates could be considered secret, guess so we havent seen one from him yet.

Gotta love the nads of this guy; lower our defenses to prevent attack but don't insist on defunding ACORN and lying about not knowing how much funding ACORN is getting. Nobody calls him out in the media. Amazing.

Lower our defenses to prevent attack? USG okayed selling weapons to Saddam, backed up Bin Laden and portrayed him as a hero when he was fighting the USSR, gave 30 million $ to the Taliban months before 9/11. Maybe divulging a few secrets about how the US is run by a shadow plutocratic government of weapons manufacturing war profiteers will wake up conservatives to conservation? The shadow government is gaining power that can kill you, Obama or anybody and get away with it. Tea party drones will be the first ones willingly lead into the gas chambers.

Ken,

"backed up Bin Laden and portrayed him as a hero when he was fighting the USSR"

Link to this please. Bin Laden was a nobody during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. He funneled money and arms into Afghanistan and was best known for his tunnel digging prowess. The CIA didn't know who he was until 1996.

Do yourself a favor and get a clue.

Ken has no clue.

Ken should be totally ignored until he can post a link to back up ANYTHING he writes.

Until then, Ken should shut up.

Didn't know who he was? He's the son of one of the richest Saudi Arabian families with ties to the United States going back decades. We knew who he was, and he was a prominent figure in the Russian/Afghan war. We funneled money to him and many other Mujadeen leaders to fight that battle.

Wrong, recheck your sources and I don't mean the daily kos or the huffington post.

What are you sources for declaring it a fallacy, I would LOVE to know.

You just don't want to think it's true, so it must not be, is that it? regardless of any evidence to the contrary, you'll just chalk that up to a "biased" source. Because you know, facts are so biased.

Here you go. You might want to brush your teeth. Your breath smells like vinegar.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/08/15/bergen.answers/index.html

September 6, 2006 NEW YORK (CNN) -- CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen says the notion that Osama bin Laden once worked for the CIA is "simply a folk myth" and that there's no shred of evidence to support such theories.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html

Posted at globalresearch.ca 12 September 2001

Pakistan's ISI was used as a "go-between". The CIA covert support to the "jihad" operated indirectly through the Pakistani ISI, --i.e. the CIA did not channel its support directly to the Mujahideen. In other words, for these covert operations to be "successful", Washington was careful not to reveal the ultimate objective of the "jihad", which consisted in destroying the Soviet Union.

In the words of CIA's Milton Beardman "We didn't train Arabs". Yet according to Abdel Monam Saidali, of the Al-aram Center for Strategic Studies in Cairo, bin Laden and the "Afghan Arabs" had been imparted "with very sophisticated types of training that was allowed to them by the CIA" 6

CIA's Beardman confirmed, in this regard, that Osama bin Laden was not aware of the role he was playing on behalf of Washington. In the words of bin Laden (quoted by Beardman): "neither I, nor my brothers saw evidence of American help".

Okay Sven:

All these sources are koolade drinking basement dwellers and you are a conservative god. Give tea drinking a break for a while buddy. " [U.S.] policies in Afghanistan a decade and more ago helped to create both Osama bin Laden and the fundamentalist Taliban regime that shelters him." An examination of this history will reveal the extent to which U.S. foreign policy is based on hypocrisy, realpolitik, and the short-term pursuit of narrow interests. "He also worked closely with the CIA, raising money from private Saudi citizens."

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/binladen_cia.html http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=maktab_al-khidamar

I agree. Why doesn't he start with his records, birth certificate, college transcripts, who paid for his education, what is is real role in A.C.O.R.N.? This is typical of obama, he will go to great lengths to gut the military and make their job hard, but he won't answer the most basic questions about himself. And he calls Kanye West a jackass!

I agree with you,he is hiding things about himself,is he B Obama or Barry Soetomo,if he doesn't want to release this information,why release information about this country,I fear this man whoever he is.

Why doesnt he meet with Charlie Sheen?

Because Obamas' real plan is to bring the U.S. down-down-down.....so he is not going to do anything to protect Liberty, to protect the citizens, or to protect our soldiers...He wants to see the U.S. fundementally transformed....what does that mean...I am asking you Mr President...what do you want the U.S. to be transformed into? A communist country? cause that is what I see happening...and many millions more see it too.......were not gonna sit back like the Germans did with Hitler..no wonder Mccains chants during his campaign was FIGHT_FIGHT_FIGHT!!!!!!!!!...well Mt President....We are the People and we are fighting mad!

The "conservatives" have not a dam thing to do with conserving anything. They listened to economist Milton Friedman, Friedman once said "if you want to see capitalism in action, go to Hong Kong". Since they moved all our jobs to China to maximize their profit margin, it is time for conservatives to go to China where they belong. Neo-conservatives also listened to Leo Strauss who Straussan economics is named after. Many neoconservatives like Paul Wolfowitz are disciples of a philosopher who believed that the elite should use deception, religious fervor and perpetual war to control the ignorant masses. If the Neo-con wannabes wasting their time writing here had any of the fruits of their fascio-conservative philosophy they would have hired a hooker and taken her in a motel room in Lake Louise or Yellowstone Mountain Club. That is where conservative heroes who sell weapons to our enemies and then more weapons to republican taxpayers go to spent their booty.

From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'

Dennis posted this earlier in this thread. Everyone needs to read this and then decide which side of the fence obama stands on. He did not state in this quote about it being religious, it is a politically based thought, in his own words.

Read the book and then you may understand the out of context quote presented here. It means he stands on the side of the people, all of the people, not just the muslims, or the christians or the hindu or the athiests.

Of course now it appears that he stands on all sides, just like every politician to come before him.

Those of you decrying the transparency he is calling for here are chickensh*t, I suppose you'd rather have the warrantless wire taps and illegal surveillance of the Bush administration to keep your collective pansy a$$ safe? AND you wouldn't mind being whisked off to some secret location without a call to your lawyer and then not being able to do anything to make it right when you are finally, if ever, released? You trust your government without question? sheesh.

Well I am Not D or R and I find this incredibly dumb. Making nice with the enemy is not going to make them like us, it will actually be open door invitation to kill us. Might as well hook up world satellite that shows everything first hand, where are troops are, where FBI, CIA etc are sitting outside an operation..I mean gotta give them time to clear out !  (sarcastic of course for those unable to read).

It's a real shame he is not more concerned with unemployment and holding those accountable for rip off Americans. Wall street, Banks are enjoying the fruits of there bailout taxpayer money and what the Heck, the rest of us sit waiting for that tent or box if ya can find a space !!

Ken,

"The "conservatives" have not a dam thing to do with conserving anything. They listened to economist Milton Friedman, Friedman once said "if you want to see capitalism in action, go to Hong Kong". Since they moved all our jobs to China to maximize their profit margin, it is time for conservatives to go to China where they belong."

LOL. Do you actually think before you post. Let's see Friedman penned that quote in 1990. The British didn't give it back to Communist China until 1997. What's your point? What are you trying to compare? Apples to tennis shoes?

TampaSteve posted:

Those of you decrying the transparency he is calling for here are chickensh*t, I suppose you'd rather have the warrantless wire taps and illegal surveillance of the Bush administration to keep your collective pansy a$$ safe? AND you wouldn't mind being whisked off to some secret location without a call to your lawyer and then not being able to do anything to make it right when you are finally, if ever, released? You trust your government without question? sheesh.

I don't trust THIS administration to do anything based on the pathetic record they have shown.

You may feel like a big boy calling people names, but I work in anti-terrorism so I know what is going on here. You obviously don't. Letting any politician decide how to run my life is dangerous, but I would rather someone is looking out for the safety of my country rather than trying to run down a previous administration using such stupid and dangerous methods. Obama has shown his true colors and they run. Mine don't.

Whether you like it or not, the previous administration managed to keep the US safe from terrorists - and there were plenty of plots that we foiled BECAUSE WE HAD GOOD INTELLIGENCE THAT REMAINED SECRET!

The current Apologist-in-Chief will cause us to lose the level of safety we currently are maintaining since he is more interested in "investigating" CIA agents than terrorists.

Sven: It sounds like you do know a lot about China. Did you help shut down unions because the union workers made enough money to feed their families and pay their mortgages? Did you vote for GW who took the longest vacation any president in history did and came back to work to read the pet goat on 9/11? Who made the shoes you are wearing Sven? When a republican speaks out of the side of their mouth it is a clue that they have been eating horse apples. It may take a while for a real president to clean up after a skull and cross bones war profiteer who lost the popular vote in both his selections by the most greedy short sited people on the planet. Hong Kong of the Brits or Hong Kong of Bejing it does not matter they need and want you their Sven. It does not matter how many tea bags post here the majority of the people voted for Obama and many of them are not happy with him because he is not mucking out the fascist trash who call themselves conservatives fast enough. Progressives will take seats in congress in 2010!

Ken, calling you a twit would be a disservice to twits. If knowledge of world history makes me a bad person then I will be bad. What is it with you and unions. Tell you what boy. A little history about me. I was born in Flint, Michigan. Unlike your hero Michael Moore, I was actually born there. What lead to Flint's downfall was the unions. My old man used to work for GM. He said they had three auto manufacturing lines going. Two were for the new model cars they were making. The third was for fixing all the screw-ups from those two lines. The unions never wanted to adopt SPC like the Japanese did. Probably would have interferred with their naps in the broom closet while they were on the clock or took too much concentration when they were drunk. Ever heard of the saying "never buy a car built on Monday or Friday"? That didn't just materialize out of thin air. Ask any of your Left Wing Wack job buddies that are old enough to remember those days. None will deny the saying was true. Now you have the Japense building a Lexus. Guess what? We still can't build one. Lastly what's with the tea bagging references? Why are you using a sexual proclivity of your homosexual brothers as an insult? Are you ashamed of their actions? Are you ashamed of your own? I mean if homosexuality is an accepted and normal lifestlye why do you use one of their common indulgences to put others down? Oh, I think I get it. You're still pissed about Prop 8 passing. You go girl!

I'd rather die from a terrorists bomb than in a government gulag. Give me freedom or give me death has a lot more meanings than the obvious one. So no, I don't care how many "plots" the government unfoiled using illegal and unconstitutional techniques - I want them all GONE, stopped, and never repeated. I refuse to give up what makes America great out of fear.

Oh, and for the record, Obama has kept America safe longer than Bush did when he took over. Food for thought.

Capt.....Your gov gulag is just something in your wild imagination, terrorists bombs are real. You apparently arent aware of reality.

oh yea? How many terrorists bombs coming this way? Yet the government for 7 years used that one attack to slowly chip away at your rights one by one, and you were friggin HAPPY, because you had this false sense of security? And I'm the one out of touch with reality?

If a bomb comes let it come but I won't watch my country be destroyed from within to stop it. There's no point in fighting THEM if we lose to ourselves. That gulag is a lot more likely than some muslim fanatics taking over America.

Doctor Larry,

Listen to Capt Tripps

Capt....you are really on the fringe out there.....we have seen the terrorist damage..And plans for more..We dont have gulags except in your mind. It is people such as you that are destroying the country from within.

yeah, wanting the Freedoms guaranteed me in the Constitution and a government limited in authority is tearing the country apart....treasonous even.

We have had the imprisonment of innocent citizens here in the past and I for one vow never to see it again, not even in the name of so-called security.

Doctor Larry -

Whether you like it or not, the previous administration managed to keep the US safe from terrorists - and there were plenty of plots that we foiled BECAUSE WE HAD GOOD INTELLIGENCE THAT REMAINED SECRET!

Yeah Doc, you're right, except for that little bit of trouble back in September of 2001 they did a bang up job alright. I refuse to be scared into giving up liberties by my government and this step towards transparency is a good start at going back to where we should be with the American experiment.

When we carry on like the past administration in the name of keeping ol doctor larry safe then we cease to be the America that stood as a beacon and join the Putins and Chavez' of the world. Midnight kidnappings, secret prisons, torture; yeah, that's the America I was taught to know and love. puhleeze.

Take your anti-terrorism background and look into your own country's dirty laundry, that ought to scare you somewhat. I don't trust any of them and some a lot less than others - that's exactly why I welcome news such as this.

Yes he is. By the time he's done none of our EX allies will give us the time of day, let alone share intel with us.

I suggest he just goes on http://www.aljazeera.net/Portal and announce this news. Make their day. I am sure they'll be cheering in the streets.

Who do you speak of when you write "this Guy" JJ? It could not be Barrack Hussein Obama, could it, no? You must mean one or more of these guys who profit to this day from the doings of the pet goat reader:

Vance Coffman of Lockheed martin made 150 million, John Walsh of GE made 122million, L.B. Raymond of Exxon made 114 million, Michel Dell made 500 million, Davis Cote of TRW made 44 million, George David of United Technologies made 280 million, DHB David Brooks made 250 million in one year including wages, bonuses, benefits and stock options…Now that is more than a billion dollars between seven people.

Maybe you were refering to one of these people who porfit from the sickness and death of grandmothers and little babies:

William McGuire, of UnitedHealth Group: $124.8 million in one year;CEO Ray Gilmartin of Merck: total 2004 compensation was $37.8 million;Ron Williams - Aetna Total Compensation: $24,300,112;H. Edward Hanway - CIGNA Total Compensation: $12,236,740

Republican sheep have already cut off their own toes following the conservative pied piper you mize well move up to the ankle or knee. Maybe it is time for a great conservative suicide mission? I'm sure Rush Lympdick will let you know when it is the final hour for his sheeple.

Ken, you're right on. But the sheeple here don't care. They're whipped up into a frenzy by Beck, Lushbaugh and Hannity, whiners of the top degree. They're just mad because they have lost two elections in a row.

That having been said, my firm belief is there should be no such thing as political parties.....

What is is with the ignorant people who honestly believe in a no government, free market society? Don't they realize this can't exist (except in a text book) and has never existed? Do they realize the Constitution was designed to be a working document, changed as the times called for it to be changed?

I just don't get it. Truthfully, I don't want to. Their way of thinking is unAmerican. Our prosperity is linked to our progression as a society, not our regression into some feudal system which apparently these sheep want. They don't want to have govt do anything except fight unwarranted wars. As long as they can buy their semi-automatic guns and 1000 calorie greaseburgers and gas guzzlers and and deny reality, they're more than happy to kneel before their masters (corporatistas) and exist as an underclass in this country.

Ken and Jerry,

Hey I like that. You two should make icecream together. Also, if you move to Connecticut you can get marired. Since Ken doll likes to quote Milton Friedman here's one that I think is especially apropos for today;

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand."

Hey Sven,

If left to private enterprise, the top 1% will own 80% of the sand, and the rest of us will have to borrow additional sand to keep the little sand we have.....

No thanks, I am kinda happy with my beautiful wife and my newborn baby girl, not so much into man on man action myself.

But they do say the ones who are the most homphobic are the ones with a latent curiousity. Perhaps you should be th one relocating.....

Oh, and Sven, I am not the one calling myself a "teabagger". You do realize that is a phrase usually reserved for the sucking of male genetalia, right? Just for your clarification......

The face of liberalism and intelligence lol http://bit.ly/CC9lF

Video doesnt lie ,look at the oh so intelligent libral speak of why they are liberals here lmao!

Ken -

Did you make any money last year?

If so, send it to me. You don't deserve it, right?

In case you missed those years in kindergarten, businesses hire people. That's where employment comes from. People make money from their jobs - that's how they buy things. Form businesses that make money and hire people.

Have your mommy read that to you a few times until it sinks in.

yeah, maybe you can explain that to our economy.....beacuse apparently it didn't get the message. Unbridled and unfettered greed = WIN.

Jerry, don't recall referencing tea bagging. Must be Freudian on your part. Not a problem. Does your wife know you're into that stuff?

Capt Tripps,

"yeah, maybe you can explain that to our economy.....beacuse apparently it didn't get the message. Unbridled and unfettered greed = WIN."

"yeah, and using a character out of a Stephen King novel as your nom de plume = LAME.

Capt tripps. You are so wrong. Capitalism and free enterprise equals opportunity for everyone....socialism kills opportunity....except for the few the gov decides is their favorite...(.like ACORN??).

Doc: You are so right the business people in this country hire people and most of them are in China where you should go. You call profiting from sickness and death by charging people inflated prices health insurance and then denying them healthcare on small print technicalities a business? You call the revolving door Pentagon war machine a business? The business of those whose parents supported the Nazis and now support endless war and skull and bones secret societies are not who I work for. Since you claim to be a doctor you should study about the affects of inbreeding because with your logic it is obvious to me your mother is also your dads sister. The elite often inbreed because they are so greedy that they do not want anybody outside of their immediate family to share their war booty. Doc, lay down in your play pen and let your uncle dad tell you a story about the good ol' bourgeoisie days when he dated his sister and you came along.

ACORN, you decry.... I know that this organization cannot be as powerful and corrupt as oh !!!! lets say HALIBURTON

omfg with the ACORN, get over it already. It's a non-profit community group for Christ sakes, not the first legion of Beezlebub.

And no offense but I don't think you have any idea what those economic principles mean, since we have a mixture of capitalist and socialist principles in America, we have for a while, ever since people got sick of getting @!$%#ed over royally by big business left to it's own devices and demanded the government reign them in. Nothing ever gets better when the hands come off, not once in history.

acorn, acorn, acorn, acorn

DO you really think we still need a CIA in the hands of this federal government?

We need the CIA in the hands of the people so they can investigate the government.

I hope all of you conservatives saw the memo from Homeland Security telling law enforcement to be on the lookout for people with Constitution, ROn Paul, dont tread on me and other bumper stickers. You were called potiential domestic terrorist and a guy was even pulled over for questioning in La. The Patriot Act is now going to be used on you....

I want to know when it is time for us amercains to take back this country of ours?????

Think transparency will extend to his list of "conservative terriorists".

I am proud to be on the list!

The CIA sells weapons to our enemies and imports cocaine. What are the "conservatives" writing here conserving?

Am I the only one wondering if we now have a more dangerous enemy domestic rather than foreign?

Ken -

Post a reliable reference for your claims.

We will wait.............................

and wait

and wait

.

.

.

Iran-Contra? Afghanistan? Iraq during the Iraq/Iran war?

Doc: I have a reliable reference, it is called the Internet. Quit playing with that mouse in your pocket and click the one on your desk connected to your computer and you will surely find that back in the day Osama Bin Laden was a hero and featured on 60 minutes. http://rwor.org/a/firstvol/883/ciab.htm I suppose that site's info is not good enough nor the hundred more that would upset your greedy little neo-con world?

Oh and thanks Captian, you would think common knowledge would be good enough of a source for someone that believes the official 9/11 story without question. WHy do they want 9/11 stock put options and torture memos to remain secret? Why is Prince's Blackwater salary being kept secret from the tax payers and congress? It sure as hell is not protecting me or making me feel more secure keeping these secrets. Who are the Teabaggers trying to protect by spreading their doo doo here?

Go USA-851295

I think he found an old copy of Clintons playbook in the oval office. This is pretty much how Clinton played the game. Every time he unzipped his pants, we had a major crisis pop up somewhere to take the heat off of him.

Unfortunately, as long as there are people that feel that it's OK to live out of the pockets of others, he'll continue to contribute to the destruction of our country. I truly feel that we have lived through the best times. I'm glad I was there. What the future holds....(?)

BHO has been playing "Wag the Dog" since he started campaigning. Since he's been in office, a major "crisis" is announced to divert attention so something else can be put through behind our backs.

Mogley,

Heck no I'm not gonna let that terrorsts hugging commie defeat our country...we should not feel defeated but rather boldness...We are the people and we have been given the moral duty to fight to save our constitution and our Republic by the constitution itself. We will NEVER give in, we will Never give up...we will FIGHT_FIGHT_FIGHT...for our beloved country. write your Congressman....go to your local TEA party..VOTE_VOTE_VOTE...the will of the American people is strong and getting stronger every day...I was in Washington 9/12 for the march and it was an Awsome sight to behold.....the American people are not going to lie down and take it. Have faith.

Mogley,

I find myself saying the same thing. "I'm so glad I lived in America in a time where chruch bells rang on Sunday mornings, when reading, writing and arithmatic produced the smartest graduates from high schools and we lead the world on education, when marriage was a benefit to people and not taxed.

I find myself telling my grandkids *how wonderful America used to be* like a bed time story so they can at least have something good to dream about.

The best that America ever had to offer is behind us now as we slide into a godless, moraless Sodom and Gamora who's way of life today that will result in the demise of America if we let it.

God help us all, if he even cares to bless us anymore.

Speaking of Sodom & Gomorah,

I live in the midwest where we have been experiencing record rainfall and flooding lately. I can't help but wonder if we are being prepared for a "cleansing" of this country....thinking of getting a boat.

I suggest a bomb shelter like Israel has in each and every home across their nation. I'm considering it. The President and his family has one. So does congress. So why not every American family?

Bomb shelter won't help in a flood....

If, in the cycle of the earth, it is time for the ice caps to melt, it would flood the coast (eliminate DC and California) and along the major rivers and lakes.

Where is most of the decadence in this country?

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, it hit republican conservatives on the head!

What's up with the "I remember a time when horses pulling covered wagons strode through the center of my sleepy little town, where church bells rang on Sunday mornings. A time when Frank the farmer supplied the produce for the town, and Bill the butcher carved the meat, Sally the schoolteacher taught the children."

How old are the people on this site? What, do you live in some back-woods town in Alabama or something. I'd be happy if some of you got into the 20th century, let alone the 21st.

Yeah, the world you remember was no different than today, nostalgia has a funny way of turning things rosy. I am sorry, but that time has came and gone. Progress is not acheived through regression. We live in a larger community now, it is called the US of A, maybe we can start treating each other with some decency again, like your old-world small town values would suggest.....

Maybe we should hear it right from the liberals mouths how stupid they really are?

The face of liberalism and intelligence lol http://bit.ly/CC9lF

Amen!... Oh, is that politically incorrect?

Yes. Your statements make you all.................RACISTS! (sarcasm)

Where are we? Over populated, under resourced, overextended in war, jobs all sent to China, banker billion dollar bonuses, one big Ponzi scheme of a Federal Reserve, tea party know it alls everywhere. If Obama is a commie, Nazi, Jew lover, socialist, Muslim and he has single handedly done all this and brought down the US in 9 months; I give up I'm joining his side.

Yawn.........ZZzZzzZzzZzzZzz...

Of course your fellows soldiers salute him. He is the President. However, I wouldn't assume that they agree with him.

I hope the intel exposed that does cause harm to our troops blows your head off first and spares my Marine.

This buffoon is not MY commander-in chief. (small letters on purpose)

I agree, It's about time that Pres. Obama to change the secret "laws"that the thugs that "really" try to destroy this country did for eight years.

For the anyone that doesn't realize the damage that was done do some research. This is just one case:

http://www.blip.tv/file/314908/

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7374

I find your statement laughable grunt. You really believe your statement. You were promised transparency and all you have received is double speak, and flat out lies. You trust in a man that threatens your very freedom. This man is driving us to Socialism and economic collapse. The current administration and Congress is driving our Country right into the ground. Universal health care, cap and trade, along with apology tours, non vetted czars, this is not change for the betterment of my Country. Commander and Chief he may be but, I know an unlawful order when given. Reserve your opinion to yourself as you do not know what your fellow soldiers really feel. I think that you are right when you said revolution, it was not last November, but it is coming. Just a humble Marines opinion.

Give me a break.....terrorists really care that we follow the rule of law. This is not WWI or WWII.

grunt, just hope you don't find your neck at the end of a rusty knife, while they are filming it ok? Law? Those soldiers don't give a damn about any of our so called laws. That's the very reason we will not win in Afghanistan either!

GRUNT,

I hope you are paying attention and watching your back cause congress and BO are not...they could care less about you or any of the soldiers out there my two sons included. I fear for you lives as he plays up his compassionate war...( whats that) but putting our soldiers out there like sitting ducks. please read this from another blog..

read it and weep...Isure did..........

#1.13 - Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:56 PM EDT

{"commentId":9651734,"authorDomain":"david393071"}

david-475776

Prof1 - Lives are at stake and he needs to decide what he is going to do and simply do it.

He did. This War is lost. Asymmetric Warfare versus Conventional Warfare.

Asymmetric Warfare = Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters.

Conventional Warfare = most UN Military Forces (ISAF), US Military, Deutsche Bundeswehr, Francaise Armee de Terre, Esercito Italiano, etc.. (aka NATO). Previously the USSR Occupation here at Afghanistan.

Historically, Conventional Warfare loses against Asymmetric Warfare.

U.S. readies civilian 'surge' in Afghanistan http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29763867

He sent a bunch of Politicians here (an indicator of the US fighting a Conventional War, Civilians sent to a War Zone),

One key official will be Francis Riccardione, a former envoy to Egypt, who will serve as deputy to the recently nominated new U.S. ambassador to Kabul, Gen. Karl Eikenberry, the official said.

Another appointment will see Peter Galbraith, a former American diplomat who has served in various hotspots, take the No. 2 U.N. job in Afghanistan, the administration official said.

Several hundred civilians from various U.S. government agencies — from agronomists to economists and legal experts — will be deployed to Afghanistan to reinforce the nonmilitary component in Kabul and the existing provincial reconstruction teams in the countryside, officials said.

The legal experts are here to prosecute us for violations of any of the below Conventional Rules of Warfare (another indicator of Conventional Warfare, prosecution of your own Military, leading to inaction and loss of morale):

US Military four levels of legal authority:

(1) the international order of the laws and usages of war and resolutions
of the United Nations Security Council;

(2) U.S. law;

(3) Iraqi or Afghan law, including
orders of the CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority Orders) that have not been superceded;

and (4) Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1483 ¶ 4 (May 22, 2003)(calling upon "all
concerned to comply fully with their obligations under international law including in
particular the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and the Hague Regulations of 1907")

Note the dates for the United Nations Conventional Rules of Warfare, 1949 and 1907.

The privilaged Politicians, Lawyers, civilain appointees ("civilian experts"), their own security forces with all their excesses, privilages, proved to the dirt poor Afghans how decadent and immoral the "Foreigners" (US) are as stated by the Taliban, Al Quada, (ruining years of our work to gain the trust of the "common" Afghans). Example:

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/05/security-guards-under-investigation-leaving-afghanistan/

Note under the Afghan Laws (Sharia Law) alcohol is a violation. The US should have removed the Security Guards Diplomatic Immunity and given them to the Afghans for trial and punishment. This would have regained some trust by the common Afghans to prove that we are not above their Laws. After all the US Civilians (Politicians) turn over US Military to the Afghans for infractions; with the Afghans usually deferring back to US Jurisdiction (meaning the US Military person is tried in US Civil Court, and is almost automatically guilty (cannot afford high priced Civilian Attorney), US Military Judge Advocate General (JAG) cannot get involved in Civil Matters. And if this fails then the US Military person is tried by the US Military, UCMJ, Courts Martial; with the defense being the subordinate Officer of the Prosecutor. The US Military person can also be tried by the UN. This is not considered as "quadruple" jeapordy (see above "US Military four levels of legal authority").

Also as stated in the article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32962120/ns/world_news-washington_post , Commanders told to shift to populated areas):

Maj. Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti, Commander 82nd Airborne = Conventional Warfare

Col. Randy George, 4th Brigade Combat Team of the 4th Infantry Division = Conventional Warfare.

Also:

Admiral Mike Mullen, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff = Conventional Warfare.

The U.S. Military has only a few months left to close some of its more remote outposts in mountainous eastern Afghanistan before winter, when such operations become much more logistically complex.

Proof of my previous Newsvine post:

Most US Military units do not have Summer and Winter Mountain Warfare Training (either at the US Army Reserve Mountain Warfare School or the German Mountain Warfare School). Most US Military units do not have the Mountain Warfare Equipment (Skis, climbing equipment, clothing (white extreme cold weather), snow shoes, low viscosity oils, suplimentary oxygen tanks (and compressors), M1030s, M110s or M21s, Mules (animals), etc..

Just like Vietnam, just before the fall, it is time to protect the Saigon PX.

Commanders told to shift to populated areas (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32962120/ns/world_news-washington_post).

I knew that this War was lost as soon as the Political decision was made to fire General McKiernan for going public (CBS News with Katie Couric) with his War Plan (based on listening to his Special Warfare Ground Commanders) to win here at Afghanistan. He went public because none of the Politicians would listen to him:

But even as he outlined the new strategy, McKiernan made it clear he was still not convinced there were enough troops to pull it off.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/11/eveningnews/main5007510.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

His biggest mistake was asking for more Special Warfare (counterinsurgency) US Military Forces. With the Politicians offering more Conventional Warfare US Military from Iraq. As there are not enough Special Warfare since the President Clinton Reduction In Forces (decades to train + Operational experience + Language + Mountain Warfare). It is also known that Politicians do not like Special Warfare as we do not use high priced Cold War Era equipment like the F-22 or an Aircraft Carrier (built in their States).

So now after the firing of General McKiernan it will take a minimum of a year before the Afghans trust McChrystal. And McChrystal should know this as he wears the Special Forces Tab. He should also know that all Wars after the Cold War were going to be Asymmetric War, and not Conventional War, as trained at Command and General Staff College (International and All US Military Branches) also at War College (International and all US Military Branches). And now General McChrystal knows that General McKiernan was right (and one Special Forces General (General McChrystal),does not equal 10,000 Special Warfare US Military):

Again and again, McChrystal makes the case that his command must be bolstered if failure is to be averted. "ISAF requires more forces," he states, citing "previously validated, yet un-sourced, requirements" -- an apparent reference to a request for 10,000 more troops originally made by McChrystal's predecessor, Gen. David D. McKiernan.

More baloney, the firing of McKiernan was Political and so were the Congressional Defense Budget Cuts that the President allowed:

Obama: Politics won't shape war strategy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32937123/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia

My personal opinion (about the Defense Budget Cuts):

We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. - Mother Teresa

this shiit hole started long before Bush.

Afghanistan is also another United Nations Failure, again. (French Indochina (aka Vietnam, US after WWII), Korea, Somalia, Darfur, South and Central Americas, Iraq, etc.).

After the USSR Occupation when the US Cut and Run. This allowed the rise of the Taliban.

The Muhajeen that were trained by the US Military Training Teams from Germany were massacred by the Taliban due to their pro Western (US) beliefs (against Sharia Law). Due to the Cut and Run of the US the Afghans and many other nations do not trust us with their lives (rightfully believing that we will Cut and Run again (we have a long History of Cutting and Running)).

This is just like Iraq, after the Iran Iraq Wars when the US Cut and Run again. With many of those trained by the US Military Training Teams from Germany being massacred due to their Western beliefs (especially by the Shiites and Kurds, as the Sunnis were pro Western until we backstabbed them (details still classified)).

AC Robertson - Winter in Afghanistan is brutal and very little moves on the ground.

It is like arctic warfare plus high altitude (Mountain Warfare). And you would be surprised how much actually moves on the ground.

And the flying conditions due to the weather and terrain is almost imposible

Stop trying to fight a Conventional War.

About the Patrick Tillman fratricide. This is why inexperience (lack of "operational" experience) kills. With many that do have "operational" experience start in low intensity situations for 5 years, 1 year minimum. Once proven, then they are sent into increasingly intense operations. (in the case of Patrick Tillman, the Rangers sent him to the wolves). With most Special Warfare, 5 years training, 5-10 years "operational" experience). (USA Rangers, Basic, Infantry, Ranger School). With most Special Warfare using USA Ranger School as a screening for future Special Operator candidates.

Greg_S you were told on other Newsvine forums when this started. And it was long before Bush was President.

Example:

1993 World Trade Center Bombing. And President Clinton refusing the offered Saudi Arabian extradition of Osama Bin Laden. As well as the refusal of the offered capture and extradition of Osama Bin Laden by the Sudanese (1993, 1998, 2000).

H.R.4655, 1998, Declaration of Current War At Iraq. With Congressional Funding pre 9/11, 2001.

And about the Economy.

1999 Gramm Leach Bliley Act. Eliminated the Laws (Glass Steagall Acts) to prevent another 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression.

2000 Modernization Act. Legalized the gambling on stocks not owned, just like what caused the 1907 Depression. And only 10% of payout by Law required on hand, which contributed to the run on the banks prior to the 1929-1939 Great Depression. Leading to the "Global Economic Crisis", 60-100 Trillion USD profit to the members of the ISDA. see isda.org "primary members" (and everyone else losing the 60-100 Trillion USDs).

And about the jobs and US Manufacturing. 1994 NAFTA, CAFTA, SAFTA, Asian Free Trade Agreements and Amendments.

And about protecting the borders of the US. The US President April 2009 promised the Mexican President that US Military will not be used on the US Borders. This statement is now "US Policy". So as posted before what are you going to do with all the Conventional Warfare US Military from Iraq, throw them on Unemployment. As sending them to Asymmetrical Warfare Afghanistan would be just sending them to their deaths unnecessarily.

This Health Care Reform is payback for Campaign Contributions from the Insurance Corporations. As this proposed Bill (all versions of H.R. 3200) is about Insurance Corporations and not Medical Profession. With Bacus pushing for Manditory purchasing of Insurance from the Insurance Corporations (new suckers). As the real solution that has worked since the 1930s, with a reduction of 80% of treatment costs:

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

Back on Topic.

Marine Vet-891165 - Does anyone remember the last couple of years of Vietnamization where we, like the French before us, withdrew from the countryside to defend the cities.

Unfortunately, I do remember. That is why I made the sarcastic remark about protecting the Saigon PX.

What most people do not know is that some of us that survived Vietnam eventually ended up on the US Military Training Teams from Germany that trained the Iraqis during the Iran Iraq Wars and the Muhajeen during the USSR Occupation of Afghanistan. With most of us knowing about "command detonated explosives" and Guerrilla Warfare from the Vietcong. Since it has been long enough (not classified) most of the Alphabet Agencies did not have their own training teams (to train indigenous forces) since they were concentrating on Human Intelligence (HUMINT) of the USSR.

I really wish that I could explain more.

It is not my intention to disclose Classified Information.

Anyone not believing what I have stated can volunteer for Red Cressent to Afghanistan and see for themselves. However, we cannot protect you. The current (not previous) Rules of Engagement are that we cannot shoot until we are shot (and if we survive we can shoot back). You can read all the books you want, I have watched the events unfold (first hand).

Grunt you say you are a soldier??? Are you Taliban? or Al Quadia??

Let's not forget that the NY Times published a story after the Pentagon asked them not to "disclose" secret information. After it was published, our troops were ambushed and killed. I couldn't understand why the Times wasn't brought up on charges.

Thank you Grunt: Chicken Hawk arm chair war profiteer wannabes here related to your comment like bees after a bear in their hive eating their honey. A good percentage of soldiers returning from the Bush/Halliburton war are joining Veterans For Peace and Iraq War Veterans For Peace. They Neo-cons are no longer making sense to themselves; they are like a fox in a hen house looking down the farmers shotgun barrel. The Swiss are finally going to give up the names of their neo-can heroes who stent all our jobs to China and then bank over seas to avoid paying taxes. They say Obama is taking America down when they have been taking it down for decades. Obama is at least half white so we have a president that can at least do it half as good as a white man; that is a whole lot better than having an alien nephilim president who had came from a family of inbred war profiteer skull and bones pond scum.

grunt,

Fellow soldiers eh? Is that what you're calling your testicles nowadays? I thought it was Ken and Jerry. I guess times change.

Ken, you never told me you were in the Army.

Testicles, that is what teabaggers like Sven suck.....

Ken -

I served - did you? It does not sound like you served OUR side. Your comments are worthless.

A good percentage? What number is that? 2%?

Do you know why people move their businesses and money overseas? Do you?

Because socialist liberals want to take it all away, waste half of it, keep some of it, and redistribute the rest to people that will vote for them.

That is one reason that lower tax rates actually increase tax revenue. Do your homework (like you could...) and you will see that has been the case in the past and would work in the future as well.

You can not back up any of the leftist liberal wacko claims you make, so quit looking so foolish by repeating them.

Jerry, sucking on testicles? An oral fixation is ok but you might want to take up smoking.

Hey Doctor Larry,

Do you know why people move their businesses and money overseas? Do you?

I do. It is because of policies like NAFTA and CAFTA, perpetrated by the corporatistas. Silly little free marketeer, the rest of the world doesn't play by our rules, dumba$$. Hey, why would corporations pay the prevailing wages in the US when they can open sweatshops in Thailand, Malaysia or China, then export those goods back to the US, tariff-free. So what are you advocating, relegating the entire middle class to modern-day serfdom to the wealthy? Piss off.

It is about corporate profits. Biggest expense for any business is labor, and hey, why not move to where there are no labor laws where we can exploit people like slaves?

As for the Republican lie of "wealth redistribution", we have already seen the greatest concentration of wealth since the Great Depression (coincidence, I think not). I think the middle class just wants some of its money back.

That is one reason that lower tax rates actually increase tax revenue. Do your homework (like you could...) and you will see that has been the case in the past and would work in the future as well.

Oh my, slinging the $hit aren't we? Do your homework, trickle down policies under Reagan led to recession under Bush 41. Trickle down policies under Bush 43 led to near economic collapse.

Who's more of a fool, the fool or the fool who folllows him?

Obi Wan Kenobi

I'll vote for the fool who follows people like Beck and Lushbaugh..... You.

Yeah Sven, you teabagger. Go "teabag" Beck a little more. His "brain" is clearly rubbing off on you.....

Yeah Doc and Sven I was in the USN and have a copy of my dd214. Don't ask to see it because you already have said that all that sort of stuff should remain top secret except for Obama's Birth certificate.

BINGO - we have absolute idiots writing laws - those same idiots have raped Social Security to pay for projects wanted by the special interest groups who contributed to their election and re-election campaigns - vote the scumbags out in 2010, 2102, and so forth and so on!

Freedom Fighter? The CIA paid Bin Laden, sold poison gas precursors to Saddam who they installed, were involved in flying cocaine to the US from South America, sold weapons to Iran to help Raygun become president, WTF are you talking about and whose freedom are you fighting for? You are as American as the people who sent all our jobs to China. You are as American as Prescott Bush who was Hitler's Banker. You are as much a freedom fighter as Roberto Micheletti who was trained at the School of Americas. I suppose you want the Citizens United to win their supreme court case so we will have Plutocracy for all? duh!

Ken, you forgot to mention they were also responsible for bringing down the Twin Towers.

Hey Ken....

You should check the results of the 2004 US 7th District Wisconsin and count the votes again....then look in the mirror and tell yourself over and over....."I'm out of touch with the rest of the world..."

Freedom Fighter... Is this what happened resulting in the Weapons of Mass Destruction lie?

Perfect!

Republicans slogan in 2010 should be " STOP THE MADNESS "

Does that mean they'll lose Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck and Palin and return to something close to sanity?

Well, thanks to NAFTA, and US joining the WTO as well, has doomed us anyway. We are already well on our way to being a Welfare state!

Before NAFTA and other free trade agreement, sales and shipping out of country was all but non existant in my business. after free trade I had to open a new building, hire 45 more people and I still could barely keep up.

The day Obama was elected last November, I stopped expanding, stopped hiring, had a going out of business sale, let 112 employees go and sold out my stock. I came away with my inital investment and retired. My story can be repeated a million times all around the country. My workers don't have a job with me to come back to and so on.

Jobs may be coming back someday to the 6 million or more unemployed but first you need to find people like me willing to invest again and at this time there is ZERO reason to do so.

NAFTA doesn't really matter if there aren't people working to produce products to be shipped.

And thirdparty -

Let's not forget that this country has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. You can't keep taking away profits that would be used for expansion and expect business to operate at a loss so the feds can line their pockets.

No, he is creating more diversions by the day to hide his activities.

They wanted change....they got it. Barry and his illegal aunt need to be on a plane with one way tickets. Maybe there is an island with fresh organic kale. Then we could get rid of Michelle also.

I plan to keep the change

Now now, you cant put the Golden Child down you know? Its ok for him, after all, he is a GOD! Look at the glazed over eyes of his supporters. He has to be?

Yeah - Hirohito was a supposed God too - we still kicked his little a$$ though didn't we? Although, he wasn't as much of a sneaky sleazebag as Obama!

We(conservatives) don't care about who is supposedly god; Rush Limbaugh, Carl Rove, Dick Cheney, Joseph McCarthy, Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich are gods and Sarah Palin is a goddess; stutter gag ralph puke choke

No they won't. If you read/listen to the liberals, Bush is a really sneaky guy. He was blamed for the stock market collapse even though it started in 1999 (two years before he got into office), the 9/11 attack (even though it is documented that Clinton knew the danger and refused to go after Bin Laden), and now, even though he is out of office, he is still causing all the problems!

The "entitlement" people sleep in and don't get on the posts until the rest of us are at work.

Here are a few of the "entitlement" people you are sailing for girl:

Coffman of Lockheed martin made 150 million, John Walsh of GE made 122million, L.B. Raymond of Exxon made 114 million, Michel Dell made 500 million, Davis Cote of TRW made 44 million, George David of United Technologies made 280 million, DHB David Brooks made 250 million in one year including wages, bonuses, benefits and stock options…Now that is more than a billion dollars between seven people

William McGuire, of UnitedHealth Group: $124.8 million in one year;CEO Ray Gilmartin of Merck: total 2004 compensation was $37.8 million;Ron Williams - Aetna Total Compensation: $24,300,112;H. Edward Hanway - CIGNA Total Compensation: $12,236,740

Ken..I just read yesterday that we are going to give AIG more money because they are finally "stabilizing". Buckle your seatbelts, it is going to be a bumpy night.

Hey Ken!

Did you hear the news????

Obama tripled (now heading toward quadrupled) Bush's huge deficit!!

He is spending my money, my kids money, my grandkids money, my great grandkids money, ad infinitum........

You must be proud! You should include that news in every post you make!!

Chances are the CIA was involved in the Kennedy assassination of course someone like cram was probably happy about that if he/she was old enough to remember. While the Zapruder Film proves JFK was shot at least once from the front and the magic bullet is insanity; it will be a few more years when Poppy finally goes to sleep with his skull and bones fathers 'till the truth will finally come out. The CIA is an organization of venomous war profiteering narcissistic dogs. The sooner the truth about the CIA is known the safer Amerika will be and some day it may once again become AMERICA.

fruitloop

tired...

LMAO...I was also wondering where they are...I think they're in the huddle trying to figure out how to play this one. Most likely, the same 'ol mantra...Bush Bad, Huessein Good. Gets a bit "tired", wouldn't you say?

The Osama Obama maniacs are too busy hanging out front of their $1 a month houses trying to sell the last of their food stamps so they will have cigarettes till the first of next month when they drive their hummers to get more stamps, ADC, WiC, new medical cards before they're off to their cash only jobs of selling drugs so as to make the next payments on thier wide screen TVs, cell phones, new PC's and cable internet.

3rd...

Short, concise, accurate! Sounds a bit racist to me...! (sar)