So expand and fix the Medicaid and Medicare programs. Why screw the entire industry up for 2%?

Oh yeah I forgot this is all political spin so you can complete your power grab... Wow Nancy, you almost got me...

Over a trillion dollars to cover 2 percent, it doesn't take a sixth grade education to realize this is thousands of pages of bs we cannot afford! Expand state aid to indigent, allow insurance companies to compete across state lines, but don't destroy what we have and jack up all our costs! One is led to believe that there is a LOT more in this bill than just coverage for two percent of Americans!!!

Exactly! That's why the Republicans are throwing a fit! Maybe we should listen to them...for once...usually I ignore them...but they have a point this time. A one 1 trillion dollar debt that the taxpayers would have to pay.... to cover 2% or even 15% of americans without health care....that is socialism!

Then take the time to do it correctly. I agree that we need some health reform and was dismayed when the states, both red and blue, allowed the Blues to for-profit in return for one time budget fixes or payoffs to selected interest groups. I do think that expanding Medicaid to allow for sliding scale, premiums based upon income, would be the way to go in the interim but someone has to tell me how by expending an additional $1 T is supposed to reduce healthcare costs. This money is going to have to come from somewhere and the legal challenge to making companies eat the cost will tie up the courts and the implementation for years.

In essence the Democrats have sacrificed those who need health insurance on the temple of their own power trip.

ROFLMAO! These boneheads are priceless pieces of work. and I don't mean it in art terms.

Excuse me!! I'm pretty sure there are at least 14 million illegals that will be covered.

I would like to personally like to thank MSNBC for RUNNING THIS STORY LATE SATURDAY AFTERNOON ON HOLLOWEEN. . . .if you have any real journalists this will be your headline all day monday and the lead story on the evening news. . . but I won't be holding my breath!

The Marxist idealogues will say anything to get their foot in the door controlling 1/6 th of the economy.

I'm surprised MSN ran this story at all... email it off now before it gets scrubbed off the net. It's kinda funny, there is soooo much vitriol aimed at Obama in these comment pages. Whatever story appears, the dialogue in these comments doesn't change much...... NO ONE APPROVES OF OBAMA. We know what he and the admin are all about. They aren't going to get away with hijacking America.

Heck - if it's only going to cover 2% - WHAT'S THE POINT???

Further - the article says you can ONLY buy insurance under this plan if you already "buy your own" insurance or work for a small company. And it will cost MORE than private insurance - they claim - so that people will be pushed TOWARDS private insurance. I call Bull s%$t.

Insurance is already available for people that buy their own or for people in small companies - correct? And it is cheaper privately RIGHT NOW than this government plan - YES? So - why have this plan at ALL? Why not just FORCE people to buy insurance? Period!!

Outlaw the insurance companies being able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions and simply FORCE (or penalize) people to BUY WHAT IS AVAILABLE!!

This "plan" is too simple to believe. And even SIMPLER to improve on with NO COST to the taxpayers. Anything that takes 1990 pages to write up CANNOT be that simple. I call BULLS%$# on the ARTICLE. NO WAY this is all there is too it.

You think EYEs is an unejukated dropout?

What does this bill REALLY say?

The bill is costing so much because 30% of the people it will cover are ILLEGALS, EXEMPT for TAXES.......Obama lied, it does cover them! How many of you want to pay for foreigners sponging off of our tax dollars?

Randal put your spellcheck on! uneducated!

The bill is really a huge bunch of new taxes and cuts coverage people already have in half

The budget office estimated that about 6 million people would sign up for the public option in 2019, when the House bill is fully phased in. That represents about 2 percent of a total of 282 million Americans under age 65.

How are they going to estimate it, did THEY actually read the bill! We don't need over 1000 pages for 2%...... or is it really 2%???

You can bet that the progressive Liberal Marxists Democrats has some way that it will kick in for everyone to eventually be forced into goverment health care, or they will add it in in the wee hours of the night.  They have done it before, and have threatened to sneak it in in the last minute if they could get any part approved.  WE DO NOT WANT ANY PART OF YOUR GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED TAXPAYER FUNDED INSURANCE.

We should get the same coverage as the Politicians, and the same Golden retirement fund too......

The Government is nothing but a Legalized Mafia...

It's no wonder that it is only going to cost just under 900 BILLION dollars.  I do not understand how they can say it is cost neutral and then say it will cost almost 900 BILLION dollars.

"That cost is going to come back to you one way or another ... and it's coming back in the way of taxes and liabilities," said Eastman Kodak's chief executive, Antonio M. Perez, speaking for the Business Roundtable. "We just don't believe that there are miracles out there."

To me... Its not just the congress that is inept but from reading the above posts im beginning to think we are already falling into an Idiocracy.

Boneheaded people. The public option isnt going to cost a trillion dollars. The whole healthcare mandated insurance program will cost a trillion dollars over 10 years.

I bet some of you still think that liar Obama is giving everyone healthcare. All he is doing is forcing Americans to buy health insurance. Just like auto insurance. And guess what America.... Once this passes, the cost of health care will explode. Anyone here remember how much the price of a car increased a few years after car insurance was forced upon people?

Obama is a liar. He was elected because he promised healthcare for all. An increased medicare. What he is giving us is forced mandated health insurance.

I wonder if those aholes in Washington will ever realize that the American public is broke?

WOW can MSNBC writers be any dumber!!!

They write an artical to bash the right and it ends up right back at the libs. If its only 2% then why the trillion dollar package.

The "public option", even if a whiff of one is included in the legislation, will probably be like the side agreements in NAFTA during the Clinton administration: designed to be useless.
The Democrats and the Republicans are really part of the same party. The party of Big Business. The Republicans are Big Business's "A" team and Democrats are their "B" team.
A two headed snake.

"The selfish spirit of commerce... knows no country, and feels no passion or principle but that of gain." --Thomas Jefferson to Larkin Smith, 1809. ME 12:272

“.....I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless.”
– Letter from Lincoln to Col. William F. Elkins, Nov. 21, 1864

Very prophetic quote from Lincoln.

Great post.

"IF" Obama is successful in implementing his Socialized Health Care Reform -and- his commercially destructive Cap and Tax legislation, the economic recovery WILL BE aborted; and, this Nation WILL EXPERIENCE a double-dip recession; and, IN ALL PROBABILITY, an economic contraction far worse. Fiscal circumstances which will be exacerbated by the pending expiration of the Bush tax cuts which, as a result of expanded child tax credits and earned income tax credits, reduced the share of individual income taxes paid by the bottom 40% of American taxpayers from 0% to -4%; and, took another ten million low income Americans completely off of the tax roles. The expiration of the Bush tax cuts will lead to a $2.4 trillion tax increase over the next decade. One would instinctively ask: "Does the man NOT have the minimal economic acumen to realize that our struggling economy does not have the resiliency to absorb such massive tax increases from these multiple societal adjustments at this precarious moment?". But, the question necessitates a failure to acknowledge that it's Obama's obvious intention to destroy the free-enterprise structure that has made America the most prosperous Nation in the history of mankind; and, to replace it with the Socialist structure from his native Kenya. Obama is in fact the "Reparator In Chief"; and, will willingly resort to the thuggery techniques that he employed as a "Community Agitator" in Chicago to achieve his objectives. Take a moment, and reflect on the financial millstone that the Obama agenda is hanging on your children's future potential for achieving prosperity! Obama's perverted view of American society is unequivocally reflected in his choice of the White House TSARS. Individuals who reflect some of the most radical extremist philosophies on the political scene. While refusing to be beguiled by the nebulous psychosis of "HOPE", each American should accept the obligation to research the background on Obama's TSAR corps. Research that you will find "sobering" to say the least. Just minimal review verifies that the Obama agenda is anathema to EVERY patriotic America who reveres our Constitution; and, the heritage espoused by our founding fathers. Obama's Marxist psyche simply WILL NOT ACCEPT the concept of American "exceptionalism"; and, compels him to apologize for America's world status at every opportunity. And, belay the "racism" nonsense. As noted in a recent Scottish cartoon: "Barackside WON'T cure your pimples as claimed; but, it sure as hell will deplete your wallet." ; and, unfortunately substantially more in the process. If we are to preserve our cherished heritage, it's essential that we precipitate an electoral Tsunami in 2010. Greg Neubeck

Conservatives have been screaming all along that the government run healthcare will destroy the freedoms we have as our standard of living. Now for all the BS that comes out of Washington to figure out that it will only cover 2% it simply goes to show that Obama, Pelosi and Reed want a complete government take over.

For the obvious reasons, liberals deny that this was the plan all along. Since liberals are for big government, they will still want the government to run healthcare. There has to be certain brain matter missing from most liberals heads. I make no appologies for my frustration. The liberal side of the spectrum, although in their minds, well intentioned, do NOT think rationally.

I totally agree with Greg Neubeck - the American public needs to send a very concise, precise and stern message to Washington in 2010. Vote out EVERY incumbent! This bunch has been there way too long and has caused way too much damage!

Dear Congress:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775

- you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you

have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have

had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you

have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our

money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the

poor." It hasn't worked and our entire country

is broke!

Medicare and Medicaid were established in

1965 – after 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have

had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive

political payoffs called TARP. The "Stimulus," the

Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009 shows no signs

of working, although ACORN appears to have found

a new bitch: the American taxpayer.

And finally, to set a new record:

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009

and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars

(that were the best some people could afford) and

replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable

cars, mostly Japanese and more debt. A good

percentage of the profits went out of the country.

Taxpayers take the hit for Congress' burning three

billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record

that proves that "services" you shove down our throats

are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to

believe you can be trusted with a government run

health-care system? 20% of our entire economy?

Have you gone mad?

Lmarc

"The public option part of the legislation is but a small piece and a rather insignificant part of the overall cost. In fact, it has been said many times that the public option WILL NOT be subsidized and will operate as a self funding entity."

Pray tell, please inform me what the price tag of 1 trillion dollars will be for, if not for the public option

PORK maybe????

The money will be used to subsidize those who cant afford to pay insurance.

The interesting question will be if and how they enforce the mandate.

James 1201807 -

I bet most republicans won't use retards as a verb in their opening sentence.

I am at the point where "party" means nothing.

ALL Americans should rally against Investment Banks, Insurance Companies, and MultiNational Corporations.

It is Common Sense, and Self-Evident that human beings should have the human right of health insurance coverage.

Are you kidding? I make more than $100,000 a year and am more than willing to pay my share to make sure that others have health insurance.

Maybe, it is because I have seen how effective Scandanavian health care works.

I suppose the H1N1 virus response to the public is the Litmus Test for the President's, Speaker of the House, Senator Reid, et al., Universal Health Care Plan.

Just think, ".....forty-eight states are reporting widespread influenza activity at this time". "Since April 2009, CDC has received reports of 114 laboratory-confirmed pediatric 2009 H1N1 deaths and another 12 pediatric deaths that were laboratory confirmed as influenza, but where the flu virus subtype was not determined." (Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/update.htm) Most of the deaths were children.

The current Secretary of Health (Sec Kathleen Sebelius) cannot get enough vaccine on the streets, which includes the seasonal flu vaccine. I totally understand the length of time to process the vaccines, however, just how long has the H1N1 virus been known to the Administration?

And this article states that the government insurance plan will cover only 2%, and at a cost of how much......$890B, $1.2T, or will the cost change next week? And our Secretary of Health cannot control vaccinations for H1N1 or the seasonal flu? Time for her to return to Kansas.

And our elected officials are trying to ram the Universal Health Care Program down the throats of the public even though it will only cover 2% of the population? This goes to show you just how stupid our elected officials really are.

I still want to see a 30 day period for Americans to find out exactly what they are being saddled with before anyone votes on it. If it wont become effective until2013 what harm is done by knowing what is in the bill? Maybe, as usual with Pelosi and Reid, they just want it rammed through before anyone has a chance to read it. Why is that? Because it's just another load of Obaaaaaamanure?

I am a Conservative but not blinded by party affiliation. At the current rate of increase the private plans will soon get to the point where employers will have to start charging the employees more or even cancel their plans.

Most plans are increasing at the rate of a minimum of 10% per year. At the Clinic where I work the premiums have increased over 130% in the last ten years. We are currently paying about $1300 per month per employee. We have right at 50 employees which puts our premiums at $65,000 per month. That is $780,000 per year and to date we have had $42,000 in claims.

In your rush to condemn the public option you need to be very sure your company can continue their coverage. Those in the 20-40 year old group that have had no major claims or illnesses more than likely will be able to afford the premiums. It is a different story for the 40-65 year old population or those with a pre existing condition.

I don't care if it is a Democrat or Republican plan but something better happen to control the cost because private employers are going to have to cut back in the very near future. Those of you who are Government or State employees who believe you are set for life need to think again. Those of us in the private sector cannot continue to provide you with Socialized Health Care and pay for ours at the same time. When it come to us or you guess how we are going to react.

It would be for helping those without insurance buy health insurance. Right now the uninsured would go to the emergeny room to get treatment. By law, the emergency room cannot refuse to treat them even if it has to be for free. They pass the cost on to you and I who pay for our insurance and medical bills. Notice the insurance premium has been going up lately. Wait till you find out your latest increase.

This way the previously uninsured would be insured and pay for at least a big portion of the premium. They will also tend to get minor health problems fixed before they blossom into big problems that are expensive to fix.

The alternative is to abolish the requirement that the hospital emergency has to treat the uninsured. But any way you cut it, either you cut those who cannot/will not buy insurance and let they do without health care, or we all pitch in and help to pay for part of the premium for those who cannot afford it. Without health care reform, the current situation will only get worse in terms of premium increases for those who buy insurance.

Brandon

All Americans should rally against out of control government and elected officials.

I still want to see a 30 day period for Americans to find out exactly what they are being saddled with before anyone votes on it. If it wont become effective until2013 what harm is done by knowing what is in the bill? Maybe, as usual with Pelosi and Reid, they just want it rammed through before anyone has a chance to read it. Why is that? Because it's just another load of Obaaaaaamanure?

For once I am on the Republican side on this issue. The Democrats are snow balling us, they think we the people are stupid. Nancy Pelosi is part of this problem. People need to vote her out soon. These corrupted politicians don't care about what we want all they care about is to score some points and make themselves look good. Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the Democratic party don't have to worry about the cost when they got the best healthcare but for us pions forget it we get stuck with the bill. Remember, people we don't have good paying jobs like they do in Washington.

Great question? I think it is a foot in the door issue, and we all know how trustworthy the Obama administration is.

Unfortunately Pelosi is never going to vacate her position. She's the rep from Frisco and she suits them just fine. She is the poster child for term limits.

What I am reading here, pretty well sums it up. This administration has wasted 10 months on a plan with little or no benefit, and huge cost. But when I take into consideration future legislation to be addressed, it is predictable and characteristic of this administration.

1990 pages and about $1 trillion of printed money to cover 2% of the population. Useless.

Big mistake to post the PDF as a download, the talkshows and Fox will tear this one up just like its smaller cousin HR 3200.

Hoffman in NY23.

Long live Ronaldus Magnus!

If we learned anything from the "Stimulus" Bill it is to take a good hard look at the friends, families, and associates of the crooks,conmen,scam artists,and radical extremists who have seized power of our government and control of our national treasury,in order to see where the money is going to be redistributed, before ANYTHING is decided. 30 Congressmen already under investigation, how many more before this sad and sorry episode in American history is brought to a close?

To wdwalker - thanks for responding to LMarcT, saved me the trouble. But he is such a mouthpiece for the Liberals, he'll just ignore you. I hope he gets some business smarts and begins to realize just HOW UNSUSTAINABLE these Health care plans really are. (Unless he has an inside scoop on a never-ending bucket of money, and is all for "redistribution of wealth," then we'll be OK.)

Da....it isn't about insuring anything but the failure of this country and the stealing of privately held wealth and freedom. It is NOT about insuring anyone!!!!!!!!! It cost so much because they want to take away your money as fast as they can!!!! And what they cannot take from you with this bill they will take with cap andtrade, and then another bill after that until you all become slaves ofthe state and are then put under a global repressive form of government that will guarentee you never have wealth or freedom ever again. It is obama fundamental change you voted for...

to pay for a service you don't get, is worse than Madoff and his thugs..something is Very, Very Wrong with this dilemma....

This has never been about true Health Care Reform. This has all ways been about reforming Insurance.

Not once have the true costs of health cares high costs been addressed.

The government has completely ignored their complicity ignoring the Medicare/Medicaid are the largest drains causing healthcare to rise due to slow and no payment.

Want to fix things? Fine lets start at the bottom. Why do we have generational welfare? It is not the CEO making millions it is the Government enabling people to not try and better themselves.

Social Security was a failure at inception, just like this plan. You cannot subsidize a growing population utiliing a current taxaation.

Fact is, right now Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid are willing to pass anything at a cost to the American people to gamble that they will be right.

Honestly, lets take some time. Look at why medical costs are so high, then bill/law in slowly. Currently, denying coverage is completely wrong and should be corrected. Make that the first concern.

Why is the health care bill going to cost so much to cover on 2%, it is called politics Chicago Style.

In 2002, flu shots were in short demand and the Democrats blamed Bush for it. I don't hear the outcry from the Democrats about the H1N1, when they knew about it back in March of this year. Just think if they run the Public (Government Run) Option like they done for H1N1 virus shots, we will be all dead. 114 Children have died to date from the H1N1. But Washington got there shots and screwed the rest of the taxpayers.

John-424417 " If the public option is only going to cover 2% of the population, why is this bill costing so much?"

Good question. $900 Billion to cover 6 million people. That figures out to be $150,000 per person covered.

Typical government bureaucracy in action.

What are the odds that the "public option" will only cover 2% of the people in 10 years?

Probably about 1000 to 1.

Only MSNBC would have the audacity to put out a freaky story like this. But then again, it is halloween.

And now you know why experienced viners avoid MSNBC posts - too much ignorance, too many crazies.

If only 2% end up in the "public option" that is 6+ Million people

The public option IS ONLY A PART of the health care reform - there is much more to reform

the $1 Trillion figure is OVER TEJN YEARS and assumes that we do not in any way change / fine tune any part of it not working well

The purpose of a public option is just that - an option that would be LOWER priced than some insurance thereby putting pressure on private insurance to bring down their costs (i.e. marketing costs, high salaries, overhead) - if it works in that way you don't need to cover anyone in a public option for it to work

the comments above all should do the research - but a word of warning getting smarter will likely make you a liberal because we all know that facts have a strong liberal bias

People get serious. You think Pelosi is working for the good of the whole nation? Please! Yes the bill would cover 2% of the nation's folks who lack healthcare but remember where she comes from...California a bankrupt state with a Hispanic (Illegal) Population well over 20% of the population. Think how much money the State of California would save if American taxpayers pick up the tab on the illegal immigrants of her home state.

Oh eriq, I am truly in awe of your superior liberal intelligence. By the way, 10 is spelled TEN - i think the J was dropped in 1998.

Wonder how this plays in? Interesting timing.

October 31: Obama lifts entry ban on HIV carriers.

These msnbc aholes are so far up obamas ahole he could pi.. on them and tell them its raining and they would stand in it without question. What about all the corps that pay for workers health plans who would decide not to since the gov is providing it for free.....well its not free everyone else would pay for it..then there is the illegals...I really want to cover them and pay for it.......because the constitution says as long as there here they cant be excluded. For cripes sakes wake up people...what does the govt do right...collect taxes and make laws...they produce nothing without taking from someone...that someone is anyone who gets off their a.. and works..period

Well for all you death panel, government take over,socialist, communist, fascist, babblers of hysteria...you won or should I say the phony free market insurance companies won, If you thought the 400% increase in premiums since 2000 were bad, just wait for the new phony free market profiteers to have the total control of you and the millions of new customers, because of the attention focused on the people who have no clue of what national health is, and the millionaire idiots on radio and cable television who could care less about the average income earners cost in health care, we now have a marshmallow health bill that will do nothing for the costs of health care to the majority of people in this country.

I can see it now, the new cathedrals of the future will have the parishioners worshiping the Corporate and financial CEO's who have replaced the priests of the various religions, the slaves worshiping the masters.

Gosh Eriq, you sound smart, but you miss the point.

$1 trillion or so would be spent on exactly what? Those that already have insurance are paying for it, or we are paying for it (Medicare, etc..) so there is no additional cost.

Reform should be a revenue gainer - with things like the $200 billion annual savings from the fraud and waste Obama talks about that exists in Medicare, and from other "reforms" that should fix "waste", excessive spending, etc...

So where is all that money going if not for the "public option"?

See this is typical higher level "liberal" fuzzy math my friend.

If the "problem" is uninsured people and waste and fraud, and it costs $1 trillion over 10 years for 5 years of fix, this is an increase annually of $200 billion. What exactly are we spending this new revenue on? What are we fixing? And if everyone being added to the insurance roles are going to be forced to pay for their new insurance, bringing in new billions to the insurance pool, again, what are we as taxpayers paying for? This should cost us nothing!

So there in lies the problem - and I do mean lies - this is a shell game, a con, a power grab, pure and simple.

palco - at least you are consistent, at what, the world may never know......

(Like who did you think has been able to purchase health care if the premiums ACTUALLY went up 400% since 2000???? NO one. I can tell you they have not gone up 400% as employers would not have been able to purchase after a year into this century.)

Does anyone really believe that this is anything but an attempt by a pro-Obama media arm to get the public to go along with a "public option"?

Here's an interesting take.

The Constitution guarantees "equal protection" to all residents in the United States, which means that any laws passed by Congress must apply equally to illegal immigrants.

This means that any "health care" bills cannot exclude illegal immigrants from qualifying for coverage.

This is something that the media has not picked up on, but the Supreme Court would require - no matter what was called an "exclusion" in the bill.

Something to consider.

Roy

You make a good point but I would think since your illegal which makes you a criminal could bar you from such coverage. I am still in favor of a bounty system. This would free us of somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 million people which would have to improve unemployment opening up jobs for Americans and providing jobs for the bounty hunters.

The constitution protects US citizens, not residents. Citizenship is defined inthe 14th amendment.

willowbrook

Look it up.............Don't take my word, I'll leave my personal opinions of your consistencies out of this post.

I know of three friends who's monthly premiums of $360.00 per month with a $2500 hundred deductible , went to $660 a month...unless they raised their deductible to $5000 a month then it went to $560 a month. That was in February of this year, a one year increase from last year rates, like I say look it up, google it, there are national averages, from 2002 I believe it has been 300%, from 2000 400%.

Since "socialist" are always being slammed on here I thought it was only fair to give some real socialists their say. This is from the World Socialist website so you better not read it or you could turn into a pillar of salt. Socialists, needless to say are for a completely publicly funed and run healthcare system. I think even that would be an improvement on our current system but personally I favor a Single Payer system, publically funded and privately delivered.

US House leaders unveil health care bill
By Kate Randall
31 October 2009

House leaders on Thursday unveiled legislation to overhaul the US health care system. The bill brings together drafts passed separately by three House committees over the summer, and must be voted on by the full House. It must then be reconciled with legislation in the Senate that is still being finalized.
Announcing the plan, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Democrat, California) said, “We come before you to follow in the footsteps of those who gave our country Social Security and Medicare.” In fact, the legislation would slash hundreds of billions from Medicare and other federal programs, and contains a watered-down version of a government-run “public option.” It is expected to insure relatively few individuals, and charge higher premiums than privately run plans.
The legislation is the result of months of horse-trading, with Pelosi and other House leaders bending over backwards to assure “Blue Dog” and other more fiscally conservative Democrats that the legislation will not add to the federal deficit. As with legislation passed by the Senate Finance Committee last month, it will serve to boost the profits of the insurance companies, while leaving millions of Americans uninsured.
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the total cost of the House plan at $1.055 trillion over a decade, with a net cost of $894 billion after taking into account certain revenues. With the cuts in Medicare and other measures, the CBO projects that the bill would lower the federal deficit by $104 billion by 2019 and even further in the following 10 years.
President Barack Obama—who championed the goal of “universal health care” during his presidential bid—praised the House legislation as a “critical milestone.” The bill, however, bears nothing in common with this pledge. The CBO estimates that it would leave 18 million people, including about 6 million undocumented immigrants, uninsured by 2019. The Senate finance committee bill would leave 25 million without insurance.
Like the Senate proposal, the House plan includes a mandate requiring individuals and families to obtain insurance or face a penalty of up to 2.5 percent of income. This mandate would provide the insurance industry with a new source of cash-paying customers. People could apply for a hardship waiver if insurance were unaffordable.
Despite such concessions, and the overall cost-cutting measures contained in the House bill, Karen Ignagni, president and chief executive of America’s Health Insurance Plans, denounced the legislation. The health care industry will continue to lobby against any measures that they interpret as a threat to their profits—particularly the government-run public option, no matter how diluted and ineffective it might be.
Insurance companies are under continual pressure from Wall Street to raise premiums to boost profits. The Times quotes Michael A. Turpin, a former senior executive for the insurer UnitedHealth, who says insurers are now “under so much pressure to post earnings they’re going to make hay while the sun is shining.””

The public option only covers 2% of the people and it is going to tax the working people and the seniors. Medicare will be cut by about $5 billion dollars to pay for those that are too lazy to work or on welfare. So take the money away from people that worked all their lives and give it to lazy ones. What did Obama and the Democrats say" re-distributing the wealth!".

Palco, I am the health care administrator for my company. The average increase per year since 2000 just doesn't add up. (Here are the last 4 years for us, same plan, same provider: +20% -4%, +2.3%, +14.6%) This plan is better than the last one we had, as the network is more comprehensive. Don't just look at numbers on a website and assume it is gospel. We need reform, not govt. control. The govt. has historically shown that it cannot administrate appropriately the programs they already have. We should not add another to that list. More will suffer than benefit from this.

willowbrook

I was relying on personal information, what I told you of my friends premiums that have been increased was no exzaderating, the insurer was blue cross. I don't accept the philosophy that government can't run anything, and I have lived under national health in two countries, so you have to spare me the propaganda on national health, I know how much better it is. If you believe the manipulated markets in this nation will serve the majority in this country that is your right to hold, but if you look at the unregulated greed, corruption, embezzlement, and just plain incompetence of the Financial and Banking industries in this nation, I say there is a better argument to say Corporate America can't be trusted to run anything ( I'll exclude a majority of small and mid size banks who have acted responsible, and are being dragged down by Wall Street and the to big to fails).

willowbrook

I would also argue that most government programs that fail are the result of bills that are compromised to the point of failure, and funding that is siphoned off to pay for political and corporate influences. Just Look at the current bill, single payer option can't possibly be a effective program unless you open it up to as many Americans as possible, by just taking the poorest and the sickest of society deficit spending is insured, where as if more healthy people are included and sheer volumes are included, the profits ( which would be higher because of lower overhead costs) can pay for the program, but as you can see the guts of the program are being negotiated towards failure.

Chuck H-316019

No not average working people , but people making over $300 thousand a year, and no not making seniors pay more.

Palco

Your friend whose insurance premiums that were like $360 per month and went to like $600 , why didn't they just buy insurance from somebody else ?

Palco Everyone complains about the cost of health care.
And most I've heard always exaggerate. You say you have lived under govt. health care in 2 other countries, have you done the same here in the US? I have watched family members suffer under Medicare and outright rationing of care to the poor under Medicaid. Go online and read the policy/plan information for Medicare, it is scary. This is not the kind of care that I want to be a part of. I work hard and am happy to pay toward my health care, but most taxpayers are not going to be able to pay for their own and for all those who will go on the govt. plan. Many businesses, including my own, will not be able to afford both, we have lost too many jobs to overseas outsourcing and any increases will have to be passed on to our customers, which will cause us to lose MORE jobs than we have already. The net outcome will be more job losses and more without health care. There are a number of positive things that can be said about the American health care system, most notably the advances in research and our cancer survival rates, which are better than socialized countries. I myself am a cancer survivor, I didn't spend months waiting in line for a test. From initial sickness to removal, just under 2 months. It would have been quicker had it been a fast-growing cancer. AND since this was discovered before it was at level 4, no chemo or radiation. (Saving thousands in treatment costs.) The time spent waiting is a killer, but this is what you sign up for when you let the govt. tell the industry how and what to do and how much they are allowed to earn for their services. You need to decide for yourself, your quality of life is your responsibility, not the govt's. Dr.s who treat Medicare patients cannot take on more than 30% Medicare patients as the pay is so much lower, they cannot break even. I don't have the current rates for Medicaid, but I know the rules are so many, that many Dr.s will not take them at all. We could argue this all day, but the bottom line is, I am going to do what I can to IMPROVE the status of Health Care in America, and the current bills just don't cut it.

Palco Everyone complains about the cost of health care.
And most I've heard always exaggerate. You say you have lived under govt. health care in 2 other countries, have you done the same here in the US? I have watched family members suffer under Medicare and outright rationing of care to the poor under Medicaid. Go online and read the policy/plan information for Medicare, it is scary. This is not the kind of care that I want to be a part of. I work hard and am happy to pay toward my health care, but most taxpayers are not going to be able to pay for their own and for all those who will go on the govt. plan. Many businesses, including my own, will not be able to afford both, we have lost too many jobs to overseas outsourcing and any increases will have to be passed on to our customers, which will cause us to lose MORE jobs than we have already. The net outcome will be more job losses and more without health care. There are a number of positive things that can be said about the American health care system, most notably the advances in research and our cancer survival rates, which are better than socialized countries. I myself am a cancer survivor, I didn't spend months waiting in line for a test. From initial sickness to removal, just under 2 months. It would have been quicker had it been a fast-growing cancer. AND since this was discovered before it was at level 4, no chemo or radiation. (Saving thousands in treatment costs.) The time spent waiting is a killer, but this is what you sign up for when you let the govt. tell the industry how and what to do and how much they are allowed to earn for their services. You need to decide for yourself, your quality of life is your responsibility, not the govt's. Dr.s who treat Medicare patients cannot take on more than 30% Medicare patients as the pay is so much lower, they cannot break even. I don't have the current rates for Medicaid, but I know the rules are so many, that many Dr.s will not take them at all. We could argue this all day, but the bottom line is, I am going to do what I can to IMPROVE the status of Health Care in America, and the current bills just don't cut it.

The Congress of the United States is corrupt. And I mean both Houses, and both major parties. I realize that a few Members of each House are trustworthy, but, as a group they are absolutely the most corrupt bunch to ever disgrace our Nation. Their voting records prove it.

In November of 2010 the entire House of Representatives will stand for re-election; all 435 of them. One third of the Senate, a total of 33 of them, will also stand for re-election. Vote every incumbent out - every one of them. No matter their Party Affiliation. Clean out the House of Representatives, and replace them with 435 people who have no political favors owed to anyone but their constituents. Let's make them understand that they work for us. They are answerable to us, and they have to run that body with common sense, and fiscal responsibility, or be ousted. We will no longer stand for their corruption.

Two years later, in 2012, vote the next third of the incumbents in the Senate out. We can do the same thing in 2014 and, by that time we will have put all new people in that body as well.

That's what the Framers of our Constitution envisioned. We, the People, have got to take this Country back and we HAVE to do it peacefully.
I am also suggesting term limits on the new bunch --8 YEARS FOR REPRESENTATIVES AND 12 YEARS FOR SENATORS. NO EXCEPTIONS. THE LONGER THEY STAY IN OFFICE, THE MORE POWER THEY GET AND THEY LOVE IT AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO GET RE-ELECTED. WE HAVE TERM LIMITED THE PRESIDENT -- NOW LET'S TERM LIMIT THE LEGISLATORS.
Please, if you love this Country, send this (as I have done) to absolutely everyone who's email address appears in your address book.

A grassroots movement can change this Country in no time. Let's make it happen.

VOTE THE POWER ABUSERS OUT........LET'S TAKE AMERICA BACK !!!!!!!!!

Don't trust ANYTHING that comes from Pelosi or out of her mouth. She cannot be trusted.

ROY WILSON-336103 -

How is an illegal alien a resident? If I'm in a foreign country that I am not a resident of, I am responsible for any medical bills I incur. Your statement makes no sense to me.

The Constitution guarantees "equal protection" to all residents in the United States, which means that any laws passed by Congress must apply equally to illegal immigrants.

Being in this country illegally does NOT make you a resident. Is Washington having trouble interpreting the Constitution? Maybe they need help from a 5th grader??

Residents are all the people who live here. Some are citizens and some are not. The constitution makes gurantees to all CITIZENS -- not all residents.

deporter... millions of people like my wife cannot currently get coverage due a pre-existing condition. the current health care reform proposal will open the door to her being able to get coverage...since we have a small business, we'll probably be able to get private coverage through the new exchange system, and may qualify for subsidies to help cover our employees. The public option won't benefit us, but many of the other provisions in the reform package definitely will. The GOP did indeed attempt to suck all the oxygen out of the room via their campaign of misinformation, scare tactics, and bogus claims. Thankfully, their efforts appear to be doomed to fail and we will get a health care reform bill passed and signed that will benefit the USA enormously.

joe please explain how higher premiums and more taxes benifits anyone. my wife and i are in the same boat as you are , we could not find ins for her because she has fibra myalgia for less than 1200 a month . we currently spend between 6-900 a month depending on meds and doc visits and we save 1-400 a month for any other problems that pop up . even with this expense we feel it is our responcibility for her care not anyones elses . the whole point of this h.c. debacle was to make it affordable , clearly they have failed and i might add they did this without any repug help.

Thanks folks, I'll be getting the higher taxes and no benefits. My employer is self insured, as are 55% of the people getting health insurance thru their jobs now. But the "benefits" don't cover us, as self-insured companies are exempt from the requirements. So I get nothing except a chance to pay for life's losers. Thanks, thanks a lot.

Actually you and I will pay for those through government subsidizes.

That's a good idea...I like it. But of course the real motive here is for Goverment to take control of health care, so they'll have to dismiss your idea.

Joe,

read the bill, you are wrong. if pre-existing conditions are a problem, let's focus on that issue and make the insurance companies more accomodating. Why do you have to bankrupt my company and mess up my insurance just for this one issue. Fix our current health care, don't trash the system and start over, especially not with this crap they are proposing.

Jan Black - well, i read Joe's comments and i just read yours. who is stupid? hmmmmmmm.

Joe and wtco, I feel bad you do not have health insurance, but if you would have bought insurance all your life you would not have this problem.

That's why you buy insurance, not health care.

I wonder how many IQ points, on average, has the American collective intellect actually dropped?

Current population is 306,108,000 as of March 29, 2009

2% of population is 6,122,160

Cost is about $850,000,000,000

Cost per person is only $138,839.88 per person. I wonder if this is a reasonable cost for health care. Seems that they forgot 98% of the population. Seems they forgot the 30 MILLION ILLEGALS.

oh people they say that the 2% are going to have

Higher premiums in public plan
As a result, premiums in the public plan would be higher than the average for private plans. That could nudge healthy middle-class workers and their families to sign up for private plans.

Makes me think that if they cannot afford health insurance now that they should be able to afford it if they raise the cost.

They will not address the cost due to the lawyers. Because most of WASHINGTON is Lawyers and they are protecting their own interest. Vote out these worthless congress members and vote in new. Look to see special interest.

That 2% that is estimated will be there in a couple years, so apparently it's not needed by them now. BUT....... If we allow the government to continue the way it is going now, we may all need the "public option" in a few years. If the public option will only cover 2% of the population, who the hell is covering the 18 million illegals now ????

2010 A vote for a constituant is a vote for Taxation without representation. I have yet to meet someone who wants this bill, but the process continues. Let's tell Congress that they have ignored us long enough.

Joe Mota....If a person cannot get coverage because of a pre existing condition, then let the government pay for their treatment at any one of the numerous VA Hospitals....... Or is the treatment offered our military not good enough for the general population? I sure as hell know it's not good enough for our soldiers and sailors.................Oh yeah.....the government runs that too.

Keith - if those two were on employer health insurance and had to change jobs after being diagnosed, they would not be able to get inexpensive health insurance. The problem is that health insurance needs to go with the individual and not the employer or the government.

The rest of us has to pay for that 2%

how about just deporting all the illegals and putting muzzles on the lawyers. that would cut the heck out of health care costs.

deporter -

RIGHT ON!

Amen Newf

But the ones paying for the extra 100 billion is you and me and not them.

David Noah, very well stated!!!! My sentiments exactly!!!

Agree 100% but I think everyone is starting to realize that Obama administration doesn't want to fix anything or make anything better for America. They don't like America the way it is, so don't believe for a second that they plan to help anyone, only themselves.

TY Noah could not have said it better.

DAVID NOAH.................. Where do you live, and would you PLEASE run for office !!!!

David Noah - Yes.........run for office!! Common sense it what we need in government! I agree with your post, we need to take our Country back from the loosers in office and make it GREAT again!!! Wake up America and get involved NOw, before it is too LATE!!!!

It's all only a start. The real program is to nudge. A little now, a little later, overwhelm the system and change it to the one you want. Progressives know what the game plan is.

Yep. They know alright. They know as much as Chicken Little in that the sky is falling.

"most of the uninsured will have to wait until 2013 for help. Even then, many will have to pay a significant share of their own health care costs."

after reading that line I was just sitting and thinking WHY? how could anyone one see any benefit from this? I really don't want to see this country torn apart with a civil war as many keep talking about but God man is that what it will take to stop government from destroying this country ?

I've thought for a long time that these radical socialists (I'm not going to call them libs anymore, since its an insult to moderate liberals everywhere) are doing this on purpose. They want a civil war.

Come on...you know already...it's socialism dude.

We know for certain it isn't your pocket or mine, Jmarmont.

Cmon! Their plan is to take over America little by little.... Banks, autos, health insurance, we'll be like England when he's through.... socialist, facist. Do something about it by voting out the traitors on election day. Get active against them. They are DEFINITELY against us taxpayers.

Yeah, lets just leave everything just like it is, because it is so wonderful now. Insurance rates have increased 400% since 1994 when the last attempt at health insurance was tried. If we stay with the current system and the cost of insurance doubles as predicted over the next ten years, you can forget about any economic recovery in this country. US businesses will just continue to move their operations to countries that provide universal health care. Lets face it, single payer is really the only option that should be considered.

By the way K. in CA, socialist and facist are two entirely opposite political views. Socialism is extremely left wing philosophy and facism is a extreme right wing philosophy. So using the two together shows that you have no idea what the hell your talking about.

"Yeah, lets just leave everything just like it is, because it is so wonderful now. Insurance rates have increased 400% since 1994 when the last attempt at health insurance was tried. If we stay with the current system and the cost of insurance doubles as predicted over the next ten years, you can forget about any economic recovery in this country."

I haven't seen one post that said leave everything like it is...

nightshift, and I have not read one post that offers an alternative to the current system. Anyone can complain, but it becomes a lot tougher when you have to come up with solutions. As far as I'm concerned, single payer is the only way to go. Administration becomes much simpler for both the health care provider and the patient. The provider does not have to deal with multiple insurance companies all with different levels of coverage and rules. Billing has become a nightmare for hospitals, doctors and patients. The current system is unworkable and the more we put off serious reform, the harder it becomes.

Maybe if we got rid of government waste, fraud, abuse & mismanagement we would have some money left over for the important things.

That is the thrust of the conservative group. Clean up the mess before you make a new one.

I totally agree with you Anita but fear that if we got rid of government waste, fraud, abuse & mismanagement, who would be left in charge! :)

Rickg,

nightshift, and I have not read one post that offers an alternative to the current system. Anyone can complain, but it becomes a lot tougher when you have to come up with solutions

Then you can't read. Hvae you ever heard of things like tort reform, letting people buy insurance across state lines, amending HIPAA to cover people with pre-existing conditions. Shut up, and get your head in its right place. Your blind hatred and gospel of left-wing talking points make you look even more uneduated than the talking heads themselves. We should ALL be fact checking everything that we heard on the news, since every station has a political bias.

GOP plan...

http://theobserver1.newsvine.com/_news/2009/11/01/3448864-gop-on-health-care-in-568-words-whats-wrong-with-1990-pages

alk0509, get my head in the right place "left wing" talking points. Then you spout all the right wing talking points. Tort reform the greatest myth in the health care debate, why don't you look at the actual facts about how much tort reform would save on medical expenses. I live in Michigan, we have had a cap on punitive damages for medical lawsuits for several years. Our physicians still pay as much for medical malpractice as states that have no cap. No one said insurance companies cannot sell health insurance across state lines. The only thing that the states require is that you follow the state regulations where you are doing business. The federal government does not regulate insurance companies, they are regulated by the states. These companies will just move their operations to the states with the least amount of regulation. Tell me how adding more insurance companies to the mix would help the doctors and hospitals who are already having to spend a great deal of time and money to get paid from their current insurance providers.

If you have not thought things through, I would not be calling anyone uneducated. Your entire post was filled with venom, which I hear from talking heads all the time. Next time, get some facts to back your arguments before telling other people to shut up.

Anita. most of the fraud in medicare is from the insurance companies. Things like medicare advantage are contracted by medicare to administer the plan. United health care was fined over a billion dollars for defrauding medicare. This is what happens when you privitize government services, it always cost more and you lose oversight. These companies pay a great deal of money to politicians to gain access to tax dollars. Why do you think these insurance companies are spending so much money lobbying to maintain control of the system. If you think they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, you are sadly mistaken. They are doing this to make as much money as they can with the least amount of regulation.

By the way, I followed your link. Republican talking points do not make a plan.,

Remember these are the same clowns that build turtle tunnels as part of the stimulus, starve people and cause 40% unemployment in a 3 county area in california for a minnow, spent untold millions for signs boasting their projects, believe all animals should be afforded attorneys, and spent almost a trillion dollars for 30,000 jobs..............when they use their magic math it comes out to 650,000?

Does this sound like a party of in depth goofballs or are 2nd graders calling the shots?

you are a ZOMBIE,,, looking for anything to right, this fraud OBAMA!!!

hows that hope an change working for you??? FOOOOOOOOL

Looks like Obama is going to keep MSNBC out of the press meetings along with Fox now. Obamas probably on the phone right now to the GE exec asking for somebodies job.

How'd this one slip through?

Well they do everything in secret. What's not to trust, right? RIGHT?

Anita you are so right but the problem is if we clean up the mess we will not have a problem. I am not saying there are not people with real issues who are suffering but there are millions of people who deserve no health care. This idea that everybody deserves health care is just not true.

gil.......From a long time independent.......there are no more 'idiot libs, than idiot neo-cons' the only differences between the two is in which part of government to grow, which part of your life or body government should control and which constitutional rights to honor or ignor.....the line between the two extremes has become so gray it matters little.

then you pay for it!!!! and let the LAZY people just cruzzzz,, FOOOOOOL

Yoo already have one...it's called Medicaid for those who cannot afford it. We do not need to pay heatlh insurance for those who are not citizens of this country.

Amen Ken! Why do we need to completely overhaul the whole system, and give government control of doctors' education, medical instruments, insurance, etc. Follow the KISS rule..... Keep It Simple, Stupid!!!

then you pay for it!!!! and let the LAZY people just cruzzzz,, FOOOOOOL

ppl who dont have coverage are not just "lazy" ppl, as u so ignorantly put it gil. how about some employers dont offer health insurance??

We do not need to pay heatlh insurance for those who are not citizens of this country.

um...ken, hate to break it to u, but u already do.....its called the emergency room.

Beverly....

True and that is the point. Why expand it further. Second, why treat in the emergency room if it is not a real emergency. The majority of visits to ERs are not emergencies which is inappropriate use of the system.

Patriarch

How do you propose to pay for everyone and with what from where ?

Please do not call it a mental disorder....the Government will than dictate that insurance companies have to cover it.

Tuesday is going to be very interesting. I wonder how many Obama voters will be watching these elections closely, or even realize their significance?

They need to start collecting the taxes now so that it looks better for Obama's reelection campaign.

Why is it that this whole thing needs to be voted on now? It won't kick in until 2013 - after the next presidential election. Does anyone think that's an accident? Just saying.........

they are trying to get it done b4 the 2010 elections because i think theyre pretty sure they wont have as much of a majority anymore. if things dont start changing for the better and you wait until 2012, dems take the risk of losing the executive branch and the majority in the congress. once in GOP hands, we all know that health care reform will be a dead issue, and will be shelved just like it was in the 90s.......never to be mentioned again.

THE only people in this country that can not get insurance are the ones that have a pre existing condition

The libs have grossly overstated this "pre-existing comdition" thing. There is currently a law called HIPAA, that says if you had insurance, you can't be denied it if you change jobs. I think HIPAA should be expanded to cover WAY more people, so that you are either covered through your job, a MEDI- program, or can get insurance through a beefed-up HIPAA where no one is denied for a pre-existing condition. Sound good?

Let kids run things..... I agree with much of what you've said here, so please don't take my comment the wrong way.

But it has to get signed by Memorial Day accoridng to Botox Pelosi. All 1600 pages (with the additional ammendments)have to be read and understood by then and then signed. Right.

I think the Botox leaked into her brain.

Who declare a new national emergency last Saturday, with absolutely no media coverage. No, not 911 extension of that national emergency, a new and different one entirely, so currently there are 2 simultaneous declarations of a national emergency.

Plus the cost of the next terrorist attack.... Patriarch, please think first. We do have the rest of the world to think about, not just the illegals here without insurance.

Patriarch

Where do you get the facts to suggest the troop pullout would pay for Healthcare.

If you go to prison or come from Mexico, at age 65 you and every illegal alien in the world can and probably will retire to the US on Supplemental Social Security and Medicaid.

Because WE let them get away with it! Because it has become in "vogue" to be liberal and IMO liberals aren't liberal at all. The so called "liberals" running the country are "leftists". HUGE difference. Things like this "healthcare reform" have to be voted on in a referendum in Switzerland. Why don't we start doing that????? Who can trust our congressmen/women? Not me. No way. There is no accountability. And if there is a problem with them (like corruption) who oversees that process? More congressmen/women.

Let's send a message to all 3 branches of the govt. Let's stop allowing them to fight amongst ourselves (Dem vs. Rep -- Liberal vs. Conservative). The only winners are the politicians. They are riding on our backs with our blood, sweat and tears!

There must be a new division of the federal government to oversee the vast program that is burgeoning from the desks of bureaucrats newly ensconced in Washington, and of course, there must be money spent.

Well, if it covers so few, that leaves only the true motives to be discussed.

After all he did put the Clintons back in the headlines, and that's reason enough to cheer.

Which ones? I don't really know of anything he has done that has a positive effect on anything.

Unemployment keeps going up. Dollar keeps going down. Soldiers still waiting on their help in the war and getting killed daily. But, he did hit a 3 pointer in the basketball game last week.

LOL LOL LMAO ROFLMAO!!!!!! Great strides?

Name a few, if you can.

Name a few, if you can.

He brought a new change to Washington. He Nationalized the corruption of the Chicago Style Machine Politics. He still sunk a three pointer while the rest of the nation came up with zero for zero so far.

OH ! You have a President Obama in your country too ??

You people obviously forgot the Nobel Peace Prize lol:)

This is the worst nightmare administration in the history of this nation. If it is a failure four times in the USA, has failed numerous times around the world the democrats must have it at any unreasonable cost. All for sake of their doomed to fail ponzi sceam. All I have seen is unreasonablness for the people of the usa taxes upon taxes driving people out of jobs and spending money we can never cover. This administration is a pile of S_H_I_T!

no sandyshores, you are incorrect...the Bush "W" Administration was the worst..the took $!.9 tril in surplus and turned it into $3. tril debt. Under the Homeland Security creation..that invaded or rights under the guiz of National Security, totally ignoring the Bill of Rights or the Constution. They then intered us into a war with a country that didnt even attack us and that we allready had under control..IF you are going to be a Republican..at least be an honest and informed one and not shill for the talking heads of El Rushbo

^ huh?

Tiredofit..if you don,t understand what I just said then by all means get informed..all of this is HISTORY and not some talking points on some talk show..gee Dude.whats up?