IKNEW this was going to happen. (That way Obama wasn't lying when he said illegals would not be able to get medical coverage under his ObamaCare plan. His simple fix is to make them all legal first..)

EVERY ONE--PLEASE TAKE TIME TO LISTEN TO THIS--IT TELLS ABOUT THE BILL GOING THRU CONGRESS RIGHT NOW REGARDING IMMIGRATION.

EVEN CNN IS GETTING UPSET ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!!!

Pass this on after you watch it. NOTICE THAT THIS IS FROM CNN, NOT = FOX!!!

This from CNN news: Click here: d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888...

This 2-minute video should be mandatory viewing for every US citizen. If you have never passed anything on before, pass this on! Every American should be outraged!

rest of link:

/name/ftc-vi26.wmv

There is a reason the senate will take their time with this, much of their family and friends work! Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the recently layed off from the recession! I have something against having to pay for the lazy welfare people that just don't bother to try and get a job! You also have the people that have more kids to get more government handouts! I'm against the health care bill for I have a little first hand knowledge on how people already abuse our social security disablity!

Do not trust what this. They could just being saying this to keep us from fighting this BILL. We must keep on top of everything. Don't how they can tell us if we do not have health care - if we don't have the money to buy it then they will fine us. O'yes our taxes will go up to pay for what we can not afford. What a bunch of idoits we have put in office.

Honest Joe

Obama know's what he is doing and going around these loop holes to be sure illegal's get all these lovely benefits on tax payers expense and all you Obama fans supported him. Obama and all those Democratic idiots love to kiss ass to illegal's. These illegal's also drain the healthcare system it's not just medicare/medicad, or insurance companies, it's illegal's too.

If some of the politician are so un happy about the bill then why the hell did they vote for it in the first place? Anybody spare me that they needed to vote for something because that is a load of BS. This bill is a bad one and it will backfire just like the stimulus. Any body that votes for this bill is off my voting list. I say throw the bums out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jake - I with you 100%. I just couldn't figure out why the republicans let that go through. They could have all voted "present" and they would have killed this bill. By voting "present" they could have said they are following our Presidents way of voting and every American would have known what they were doing. I actually was watching CSPAN when the vote was happening and couldn't believe it!!

Everyone needs to look back into the past. We have the same circumstances now that we had in 1976 when Jimmy Carter was elected and had a veto proof majority. Look what we went through back then. All of you young voters who helped put the Presidency and Congress in the hands of the democrats need to go talk to your parents about the Carter years. It was not a good time for America.

Jake - I with you 100%. I just couldn't figure out why the republicans let that go through. They could have all voted "present" and they would have killed this bill. By voting "present" they could have said they are following our Presidents way of voting and every American would have known what they were doing. I actually was watching CSPAN when the vote was happening and couldn't believe it!!

Everyone needs to look back into the past. We have the same circumstances now that we had in 1976 when Jimmy Carter was elected and had a veto proof majority. Look what we went through back then. All of you young voters who helped put the Presidency and Congress in the hands of the democrats need to go talk to your parents about the Carter years. It was not a good time for America.

OK some right wing Republicans do not like the house bill....Thats news?

Here's some news for you, cincykid; there's a bunch of moderate "blue dog" democrats who also don't like this bill.

My wife and I both subscribe to seperate medical insurances, with each other listed as the dependent. Combined, the costs run us about $370-a-month. Still, we're responsible for co-payment on office visits and medical prescriptions, which can run anywhere from $10 to $60 per 30-days worth of each medicine. We're also responsible for between $3K and $6K deductible per plan for services not intially covered, which in the case of my plan, includes lab and x-rays.

Meanwhile, we notice on one of our bills that the anesthesiologist charged nearly $8K for his service!!!!

Give me a break! There's no way his "expertise" and/or the cost of the drug is worth that much.

WHO ARE THESE IDIOTS OPPOSED TO HEALTHCARE REFORM???

Obviously the headline is slanted as more Democrats support the bill than oppose it. However, negative news is the norm these days. I suppose if the bill passes, then you will refuse to accept any government plan, including medicare, social security, and a public option. Good for you! I know the corporations have the best interest fof the public at heart. Let's see.. government is the people so let's keep them weak and make sure the corporations can keep squeezing profits for their executives. What a plant!

We must keep in mind, the Senate and House both have Government funded health insurance for themselves and their families. This is at no cost to them, and guaranteed until death. Makes me wonder what would happen if they or their families had to undergo the scrutiny and cost of private insurance policies. Maybe the politicians need to feel how the public feels when we have a major health crisis and cannot afford the premiums.

HRDawg - This is not health care reform. That is the point! This is a job killer at a time when too many jobs have been lost already. Do you think that the companies that offer "rich" health plans will continue to do so when they are taxed on it? Bet not. Companies like the one I work for, (small business) between cap and tax and the health care increases, we will either drop employees or go out of business and put everyone on the unemployment line. This is after losing 40% of our business in the last year, with no up turn in sight. (Despite those spinning that the recession is over.) Look at how Seniors are going to suffer when their benefits are cut back. To be addressing this at tis time is insanity. Jobs need to be our #1 priority, not destroying health care in America.

Please, as if Pelosi, Reid, congress and the senate aren't used to swallowing.

First there are few right wing republicans. Second, right wing is not a pejorative.

Pelosi and her lemmings...

<P>Really? Then what would you call Republicans? Zombies?

People need to look at the numbers. 96% coverage still leaves roughly 12 million people without insurance. That's after forcing everyone who chooses not to buy insurance to buy it, which is a large number of people who are either young and healthy or make enough money that they choose to pay for their health expenditures out of pocket. Add to that the illegals, which some estimates put at around 10-15 million of the quoted number of uninsured and how many people is this $1.2 trillion monstrosity actually covering? No wonder anyone with half a brain is unhappy with the House bill especially considering it does little, if anything, to actually reduce the cost of health-care. Sure premiums might be made lower by this bill but it raises taxes and operating costs of business while the costs of goods and unemployment are going to go up due to the increased burden on businesses so what's really better?

I have been recently laid off after, 30 years. If it were not for President Obama, I would not have any health care, at this time.

How do you figure that?

This oughtta be good.............

I wouldn't get upset with republicans about the amendment. Even in a bad bill, that is a good thing. I also don't believe the abortion amendment will necesarily save those who voted for the bill.

America doesn't want the public option, unless you believe the news network paid polls who use 10- 14% less republicans to get a favorable result.

Dennis if you were just laid off, how does Obama have anything to do with your health care now. Nothing has been passed. This wonderful pres. of ours has disappeared into Camp David so he doesn't have to deal with the rejection of this bill and the problems at Fort Hood. President Bush went to Fort Hood today. Where the hell is our commander and chief? Hiding as usual.

"Seriously, I haven't heard anyone say it but the Dems have to solely thank the Repubs for letting the House bill pass. At this point it is accepted that the bill would not have passed without the abortion amendment. The Repubs overwhelmingly voted for this amendment giving it the votes needed. If the repubs had truly not wanted to block HCR they should have voted against it and would have killed the bill."

You may have not heard anyone say it because it isn't true.

The "amendment" in regards to abortion was not to appease Republicans, it was to appease defecting moderate Democrats. Repubs had absolutely nothing to do with it, it was Democrat on Democrat negotiated and added.

Only one Republican voted for the final bill - Rep. Joseph Cao R-La.

Regardless, this bill was going to pass with or without the Republicans. The entirety of the bill is solely the work of Democrats, from the changes to abortion, to the rest of the ridiculous bill, to it passing in the House and moving to the Senate.

The gall of some liberals to try to pin this on Republicans, who stand outside Capital Hill chanting "Kill the bill!"

So a brief moment of victory for Pelosi and her lemmings. It looks more and more like the Senate won't pass this legislation. Reid is in a fight for his political future, and Pelosi can't help. So as I see it UHC probably won't become a drag on the economy after all. We will see.

Well boo freakin' hoo for you and the Republicans in the Senate! The majority of the American public wants health care reform, whether you like it or not, and just because a bunch of Republicans whose biggest campaign contributors are insurance companies -- you know, the guys who won't make billions in profits if it passes -- won't get those huge contributions if it passes isn't reason enough to block it. Lindsey Graham and his ilk are bought and paid for by insurance giants and will represent them -- instead of their constituents -- to the bitter end!

You know what the real ironic thing is? That while the vast majority of the American public despises what the biggest Wall Street companies are doing with their (Republican started) bail out dollars and their buying of H1N1 vaccine, the right wing dopes are supporting those same companies by opposing health care reform!

HRDawg,

Way.

He probably spends 50K or more a year on insurance alone.

This is how freedom dies. All in the name of doing "what's best for us".

DG_W

You are nothing but a hypocrite.

First, read the polls, there is not majority wanting THIS reform. You just plain lie here.

Second, if you think the insurance companies don't have democrats in their pockets you are a moron

Third, trial lawyers are totally alligned with the democrats, and that is the reason no tort reform is in the bill.

In Texas, caps on lawsuit awards lowered health care cost in that state 23%.

No tort reform in this bill is no accident, ask Joe Biden. The dems are scared of pissing of the Bar Association, he SAID IT!

Quit acting like one side is good and right and the other bad and wrong, that is the thinking of a very small mind.

Yeah, everyone wants healthcare reform, but NOBODY wants government controlled healthcare.

With this so-called "public option" that's exactly what we'll get.

And there is no such thing as "good quality democrats" if they're supporting Pelosi. She is so far out of touch, she might as well be on Mars....I'd say Venus but I'm not sure she's a she.

How about this compromise: All the leftists who like a national health care program can pay for one. Everyone who pays can use it. They can scale the rates for the poor however they like. They get what they want and the rest of us get left alone. According to their propaganda, they should have a huge market "to keep down costs."

Otherwise, they can move to France for the wonderful government care.

Freedom of Choice. It's what America is all about.

I still support health care reform with or without a government run option. If the package reforms the rules under which the insurance companies operate to make coverage available to people with pre-existing conditions, makes it illegal for insurance companies to weasel out of paying up, and slows the escalation of costs, it would be a vast improvement and a remarkable achievement.

Nero - I watched the votes Saturday night on CSPAN. What some people are saying is correct. Had the abortion section failed to pass there would have been more Democrats who would have voted against the major health bill. This is a fact. The Republicans could have not voted for that particular section and it would not have been in the final bill. What would have been wriong with the Republicans just voting "present"?

Thanks Nero,

You have pointed out the obvious to the ignorant. Sadly they are probably too ignorant to find out facts, they will continue to spout the party line. I'll repeat it for the ignorant loudly (in caps)

THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE ABLE TO VOTE IN HEALTH CARE REFORM NO MATTER WHAT THE REPUBLICANS SAY OR DO. THEY HAVE A FILLIBUSTER PROOF MAJORITY IN THE SENATE AND A SIMPLE MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE!

The democrats problem is that there are "conservative democrats" who know this stuff smells like the barnyard after the cows eat. Get out of the city kids, and get downwind from a working dairy farm, or better yet, get down wind of a hog growing operation (pig farm). The odor isn't relevant it is the odor that counts.....That is democrat planned health care reform.

Did you libs that are trying to blame this on republicans flunk history? Sleep through government class? You obviously don't know anything about our political system!

CINCYKID

There's are also a proud Independent who hates this bill to.

Olympia Snowe's idea might get this stupid bill passed and give liberals a way to totally take over the health insurance industry. The way I understood it this Healthcare Plan is only the first stepping stone on total government takeover. Once they get something passed they'll simply keep revising it to suit themselves.

It would bankrupt quite a few companies and cause job losses to China yet again because of high overhead costs.

What many don't seem to understand is that this bill contains "high risk pools" which are nothing more than another term for pre-existing conditions and cancer patients getting no benefits for at least 6 mos. This is worse than private insurance company coverage.

While this may give some people insurance it does not guarantee that any doctor will have an opening for new patients. Nor does it address the issue of it being a paid company benefit in a lot of cases and therefore taxable income! Which would raise low income people's income into a tax bracket that has to pay taxes instead of not making enough to have to file.

What an absolute mess this has become. This is our "new and improved " government in action...anyone impressed ???

All Republicans are against the bill and moderate Dems are against the bill. That leaves just Liberal Dems supporting it. Last I looked only 20% of the population identifies themselves as Liberal yet we are getting this piece of garbage shoved down our throat. The Repubs should have voted "present" on the Amendment and forced the Dems hand since they have been completely left out of the process anyway. Typical stupid Repubs falling right into the Dem trap.

"The president could take a few pages from Lyndon Johnson's book ... and start knocking heads together," said Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee."

So basically Obama should ignore the people and bully this thing through since he wants it. Wonderful advice.

I think there is going to be a serious upset next year. Now hear this Obama - your days of bullying congress into your socialist agenda are very limited -

I don't think there's a way in hell he'll get 2 terms...

I believe that the same thing will happen with the Senate as did with Congress. A bunch of meandering back and forth on this little provision and that little provision. Any conservative who thinks that chances of this passing are not tilted in the direction of liberal Democrats at this moment has got his head stuck where there is no sunshine. THE WHOLE BILL NEEDS TO BE THROWN OUT!

We are moving forward to a government controlled Health Care Mandate that is unacceptable to most of the general public! We are being held by the minority because of this fatal mistake we made in the last election. Can't go back now... so the only answer is for a louder public voice. With the bill in one hand and the media in the other, it will be hard to hear the voice of the general public unless there are huge rallies from city to city. One media outlet is probably not enough. The Senators need to be put on call that they are about ready to be kicked out of office by the people. The pendulum has swung the other way. I hope it's enough to get us away from the controlled environment that this government is aiming at.

I can't believe how so many cannot see how this will fulfill the announcement by the President that he will fundamentally change the United States of America. We might as well join the European Union and throw out the Constitution of the United States. Didn't we have a revolution over the "burdens that were laid on the people without real representation" back in the day of George Washington? Yet today it seems that the representation goes to the minority and those who are permanent visitors.

We got ourselves into this... and now we have to get ourselves out of it. Otherwise we will soon be taxed for putting a picnic table into out backyard... just as they are in England. And guess what? We are closer to a cashless society where the government knows each and everything about your personal life... and controls the movement. They'll give you just enough lead-way to maneuver about.

Paranoid? Hell yes. And I didn't have to take drugs to hallucinate this! And when we turn on our TV's one day and see people clashing in the streets, then in may hit home. A divided nation cannot stand!

Is America going down for the count? Are we about ready to be blended in with the other nations?

Knock heads together. Typical strong arm Chicago politics. Or in Conyers way. Let's force people to do what they don't want. We know what's best for these people, they don't

Thanks, to whoever voted in these clowns.

DG_W

You are nothing but a hypocrite.

OK...you asked for it...

First, read the polls, there is not majority wanting THIS reform. You just plain lie here.

Read this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101902451.html

and this: http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/wapo-poll-majority-wants-public-option-more-than-bipartisanship-for-its-own-sake/

and this:

http://www.blogrunner.com/snapshot/D/3/3/poll_majority_now_supports_public_health_insurance_option/

and this:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121664/majority-favors-healthcare-reform-this-year.aspx

I could go on, but you see my point.

Second, if you think the insurance companies don't have democrats in their pockets you are a moron

1. Just so you know, juvenile name calling is against Newsvine policy. But keep it up, it might get you suspended! Wait for a visit from a guy named Tyler.

2. Did I say there weren't Democrats in the insurance companies' pockets? No! Max Baucus is one...but there are far more Republicans in that boat. Stop putting words in my mouth to make your "case".

Third, trial lawyers are totally alligned with the democrats, and that is the reason no tort reform is in the bill.

Despite the fact that I made no mention of tort reform (which I would favor), here is an explanation of why: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/53126

Quit acting like one side is good and right and the other bad and wrong, that is the thinking of a very small mind.

And you're not doing the same exact thing? And you have the nerve to call me a hypocrite?

"In Texas, caps on lawsuit awards lowered health care cost in that state 23%."

Wrong. I just renewed my company sponsored insurance and my part of the monthly premium went up around $25, the deductabile went up, and coverage went down.

Please use facts and not GOP talking points. This whole thing against HCR is simple: if it's a bad bill, why can't the GOP just use facts to argue against it, instead of lies and fear?

And all this screaming about cap and trade: don't any of you Limbots realize cap and trade was started by none other than your hero, Reagan?

Simple answer to that, RC. Because the GOP has no plan, has no mandate and has no future.

Horrrah!!!

I love how the fourth word in the article identifies the race of the person giving Obama advice.

The "dash American" thing is getting old.

I find the so called christian rights stance on this in total opposition to the teachings of Jesus.

Any one callling themselves christian should be for health care for all and understand that charity and love are the greatest commandments in the New Testament

Knocking heads together is precisely what is going to happen to the lying basturds that voted for this bill in Congress. John Salazar of Cololrado is going to have his work cut our for him if he hopes to stay in office. Did you hear the lame excuse of the pecker head Republican from louisiana that voted with the Commucrats? He had to vote his concience and the will of the people. 60% of the people in his district opposed this dictator sneak attack on America's freedom.

oldcavscout, RC-391328

Say Obaaaaaaama for us.

Percent of congressional members who are millionaires: 44%

Percent of the general U.S. population who are millionaires: 1%

Median yearly income for House members: $622, 254

Median worth of Senate members: $1.79 million

Now explain to me how these people are so "in touch" with my life and my needs and the needs of my family that I need them to tell me I'd better purchase ANYTHING or be fined. Especially something as PERSONAL as health insurance.

This should not be about Dem or Repub...it should be about what is best for the American People!! Our country has gotten so screwed up that no one is even seeing that our Constitution and Bill of Rights are being trampled and all everyone wants to do is argue that the Repubs did it or the Dems did it...im sorry we all did it by not voting out the people that passed bills that did nothing for the people. We all want health care reform but not shoved down your throat with no real budget cost to show the truth!

If it's so great, why aren't our "public servants" required to adopt the very same policies we are FORCED to abide by?

Cap and Tax? Reagan?

That's a new one on me.

my advice to Harry Reid is to be sure that the opposition knows that if they filibuster he will introduce a bill on the floor to change the senate rules so that filibusters can't be done

Remember the pugs threatened to do so over the appointment of a judge.

And for you who don't know it only takes 51 senators to do so

So now if we wont submit to slavery we are not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus. Could you provide us with scripture for that statement? I see no charity or love in this takeover of America's economy. Only control and Communism.

sheezus....

So.....the Republicans in Washington are "mindless lemmings"...while the other side of the aisle has nothing but " good quality Democrats " ???

Two words for you that may cause some reconsideration.

Maxine Waters.

Maybe she's your idea of another of those "good quality Democrats". Somewhat sane minds may beg too differ.

RC 391328

Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless. The stats are the stats.

DG_W

Selective evidence is just as meaningless as anecdotal evidence.

Also "Just so you know, juvenile name calling is against Newsvine policy. But keep it up, it might get you suspended! Wait for a visit from a guy named Tyler."

First of all, try to comprehend what you read. I never called you a moron, I called you a hypocrite. By calling you a hypocrite, it is implied that you are not a moron. My post made the two mutually exclusive.

Also, nothing is more juvinile than lame threats.

Just tired of all the back and forth. Yes, I want health care reform, but I don't want this bill, and I don't want the government running anything above what they are mandated in the Constitution. Period.

Their track record is not good.

US Post office 1775--234 years--going broke.

Social Security 1935--74 years--broke

Fannie Mae 1938--71 years--broke

War on Poverty 1964--45 years--$1 Trillion given to the poor--they are still there and still want more

Medicare and Medicaid 1965--44 years--broke

Freddie Mac 1970--39 years--broke

Department of Energy 1977--created to less out dependence on foreign oil--now 16,000 employees--budget $24 billion a year--and we import more than ever--32 years--failure.

I'm sure some responses will say look at all the private industries that have failed--yes and they are gone unless the government props them up. The problem is that Dem or Repub--the government never goes away.

Vote them all out--ALL--with a mandate to pass term limits for the House and the Senate. I did not vote for McCain, and I am waiting for Obama to fulfill his promise to get rid of the lobbyist problems. A host of problems would disappear if our politicians became public servants instead of self serving egomaniacs.

Rick,

I find it amusing that the media is actually giving John Conyers an ear. His wife Monica, is guilty of selling her vote as a council member in the city of Detroit. She is awaiting sentencing, and the possibility of more charges is real. Did she do all of this without John knowing? Ya right....I think the dems hope the old racist dies before his pigeons come home to the coop.

He is the reason a lot of work did not get done when Bush was in office because of his endless investigations. He never got his targets, (Bush & Chaney) but sure wasted a lot of time and money and got face time didn't he.

But on the subject of knocking heads, Conners is quite the example. He should be knocked up along the side of the head for suggesting Pres. Obama do it. What an idiot. This is not LBJ's America. Things are different now than they were in the 60's and I am thankful for it.

bluecollarblogger-

It just proves that even after 40 years you still can't trust a gook, a liberal, a democrat, or most republicans! I have to wonder how much longer it will be before Americans finally get fed up with the tyrrany and break out the guillotines?

bopdaddytoo My bible tells me if you don't work, you shouldn't eat. If everyone of you libs. followed that rule, we would have less of a population.

I'm not sure if Conyers is a drunk or just a lemming, he doesn't even read the bill. I think that Pelosi goes over to Conyers chair shows him which button to push and that's how he votes. So for him to day to knock heads if this doesn't get passed is just ridiculous.

I've got some advice for Congress & Obama - Start counting the Days because yours are numbered !!

How would this bill help anyone?

You republicans can whine and complain all you want, but this legislation is going through. It is what Americans want, just not your friends. Try talking to someone outside of your circle, you might be surprised what you learn.

It is time that Obama and the Democrats stopped trying to act like the right wingnuts were rational human beings-THEY ARE NEITHER!!! Rake them over the coals, prosecute them, launch federal investigations into every one of these blockading PARTY OF NO scumbags!!! If all they can do is obstruct make their lives a living Hell the way they have for the rest of the country for the past 8 years!

Crooked Conyers wants heads knocked?! We would like to see him lynched on the Capitol steps!! Only in the US Congress could a criminal like him prosper. He couldn't survive in the real world.

I don't get all the Bible talk about what Jesus would do and who is Christian and who is not. If we're igonorant about how this world works... how ignorant are we about how His kingdom works?

Any one callling themselves christian should be for health care for all and understand that charity and love are the greatest commandments in the New Testament

Bopdaddy. I'm on the Right and I'm an atheist, so you can stop trying to guilt me into paying for your health insurance because you're too lazy to work for it

By the way:

"If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their own work quietly and to earn their own living."

Thessalonians 3:10-12

Dennis 540287 - if that is your really number. So, you lost your job after 30 years? And now you want me, who is working, to pay for your and your family's healthcare? Why are YOU, MY responsibility. You liberals are idiots. Why should I have to PAY for the children you bring into this world but cannot afford. Why should I have to pay for illegal mexicans who just want to pump out babies. FIX your own corrupt government and have them pay for your litter of kids. Why does everyone insist on the hard working middle class to pay for all you losers. FFS. So, here we have an intelligent human being (me), not having kids because I cannot afford them, while low life minorities pop out more dumb kids they cannot afford. What do you think is happening to America. We are de-evolving. We will be a third world country in less than 50 years. Whites will be the minority, you libs will be working deadend jobs for the government. Then when the country is no longer secure, the Muslims will take it over. America is dead... so who gives a f##% what our future looks like.

Also "Just so you know, juvenile name calling is against Newsvine policy. But keep it up, it might get you suspended! Wait for a visit from a guy named Tyler."

First of all, try to comprehend what you read. I never called you a moron...

Now you've developed selective memory! Here is a direct quote, copied and pasted from your previous post:'

Second, if you think the insurance companies don't have democrats in their pockets you are a moron

So you didn't call me a moron? It's right there in black and white! From where I sit, nothing is more juvenile than saying (or writing) something, then denying it in spite of it being right there in front of your face!

I see no point in continuing this. As is the case with most right wingers, you provide zero evidence, yet try to deny mine with a lame "Selective evidence is just as meaningless as anecdotal evidence". And you deny someone else's personal proof that your stats are flawed with an equally lame "Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless. The stats are the stats".

I suppose you joined the school debate team, then said nothing except "it is what it is".

I'm done.

Question" Who here actually READ the article before commenting??? ANYONE?

If those of you who are complaining actually DID read it, did you miss this part?: "The majority of middle-class workers with employer-provided health insurance would not see major changes. The main beneficiaries would be some 30 million people who have no coverage at work or have to buy it on their own."

I think it's time for President Obama to not only "bang a few heads," I think he should ALSO wring-dry some stale, old Teabags, while listening to them shout "NO!"

This country NEEDS health care reform, NOT stale old Teabags.....

A government health insurance plan included in the House bill is unacceptable to a few Democratic moderates who hold the balance of power in the there. These senators are locked in a battle with liberals, with the fate of health care legislation at stake.

I'm a political independent, with strong Democrat leanings due to my social liberalism (tempered by a healthy dose of fiscal conservatism), and I can't tell you how glad I am to see the Blue Dog Democrats stalling this piece of legislation. At least someone in the party in power is standing up for some fiscal sanity.

I'm not on board with the progressive push to have the government take over health care - which is the aim of the public option down the road even if it can't be made to throw us all into socialized single payer care immediately. When the Democrats got voted into office last year, a heavy heavy part of the independent and moderate middle that supported them did so because they were angry and rightfully so with the Republicans and the far right extremism and mismanagement that took place under their watch during the Bush Administration. But we as a country did not become a nation of collectivists overnight, like the progressive far left seems to want to push us into.

After so many disasters like the auto-bailout, nationalizing banks, and massive increases to the deficit, we can't afford another entitlement like this. I've heard all the progressive arguments...

"Oh but it'll all be payed for by the premiums of the people who enroll in the public option.": Bull. You can't expand services and force demand higher by requiring everyone to purchase service, and expect prices to stay the same let alone fall. Just like we saw here in MA, if this goes through, prices for medical care will increase. And there is no way once this nightmare gets started anyone will ever be able to cut it back or end it, so when surprise surprise it's not able to operate on just it's premiums alone, it's going to get funded by taxes, taxes that will fall directly on the middle class because there won't be enough rich people to cover it.

"Oh, but it's going to function by cutting down on the overhead insurance companies have, we'll cut out operating costs they can't." Insurance companies already only post an extremely modest 2-3% profit, far below most industries, they aren't overwhelmed with operating costs. Is Medicaid and Medicare more efficient in operating costs? By many measures yes, but they're also a fiscal disaster, and on a path so unsustainable they're going to bankrupt the budget in a matter of not that many years.

"We're going to pay for it by cutting out waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicaid!" Then do it. Cut out the BILLIONS in waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicaid and then maybe we can talk about expanding another entitlement based on prospective streamlining and efficiency you think you're going to magically find and erase with such ease. I'm all for the government finding and eliminating the waste we have, but you don't need to wait to enact health care reform to do this. Get to work, prove to us the U.S. taxpayer & voter that you are serious about this and then come back to us, because as of now, your record doesn't support us believing a damn word you say on this one.

"But it's the right thing to do." Yes, I agree for the most part, health care reform is definitely something we need. It's a noble goal to get more people covered, and to stop egregious violations of consumer trust that currently happen with things like rescission. But you don't need the government to expand entitlements like this to do it. The government does not "compete" with the market. The government just undercuts it and can do so with impunity because they can always just tax more to cover the difference - and if you think they won't do that when they can't fund their current public option just on premiums, then you are utterly naive. They have no bottom line to be cognizent of like a normal company would in terms of their pricing, they can happily undercut the market until they are the only game in town. And once that happens, bang, single payer socialized medicine and we're all forced into it like it or not, because there won't be a private market any more.

Health care reform *is* the right thing to do if it is done responsibly. A public option is not responsible reform. We can have meaningful reform, with market based solutions to help increase competition in the real marketplace, which will result in actual cost savings being wrung out of the system. All we need is for the progressive left to drop this ridiculous plan to collectivize the entire system under government control, and focus in on what is helpful actual and useful reform.

You might not get many Republicans signing on anyway, but it doesn't matter. Right now, it's the Democrats holding all the cards, they've enough power to pass this with or without the Republicans if they can get to an agreement in their own party. But you're going to need to get it past your fiscal sanity guards, the Blue Dogs, in the Senate. So drop the public option, focus on helpful reform, and do the right thing and help really fix the system.

stspecialk

Would you not agree that my "circle" consists of more than just my friends?

I don't personally know the THOUSANDS of people who marched on Washington, but I'm pretty sure they make up quite the "circle"!

How about the comments on this page?

Why don't you do a little survey on this blog? I think you'll find the MAJORITY are anti-UHC.

Joe--Las Vegas 1.64

It is time that Obama and the Democrats stopped trying to act like the right wingnuts were rational human beings-THEY ARE NEITHER!!! Rake them over the coals, prosecute them, launch federal investigations into every one of these blockading PARTY OF NO scumbags!!! If all they can do is obstruct make their lives a living Hell the way they have for the rest of the country for the past 8 years!

Why such hatred? In this country people are entitled to different points of view and are entitled to fight for what they belive in. I try to look rationally at all sides of a question. Most times neither side is completely right.

I don't understand your numbers here. As one who has been a registered member of both parties, and now supports neither 100%, my question to you is--what is the problem? It is the democrats who haven't passed the legislation until last Saturday. To my count they have had the numbers for over a year in both houses.

You sound like Ayers and want to put those who disagree with you in re-education camps and if they refuse to agree--kill them. Is that your vision of America?

Eyce, if you have children who attended public school then I expect you to send me a check. You see, I don't have children so I shouldn't have to pay for public education. I also will never collect Social Security b/c the baby boomers will use up that WELFARE program before I retire, so I should get that money back. I don't go to the library, I use my computer,, so I guess I should get money back for that. Oh, and my house hasn't burned down or been robbed so I guess I should get money back for not using those services.

This is and has been a democratic/socialist country for quite some time. We understand that we are all in this together and that means that the powerful must help the weak... Or are you sending me a check?

clint, if you think that newsvine is any place to take a poll, you are very mistaken. You could go to another newsvine article today and find the opposing views. It all depends on who comments first.

ps. I will trade your 'thousands' of marchers for my tens of millions of voters.

Question" Who here actually READ the article before commenting??? ANYONE?

Yes Doob. The people here read it. The prob Doob, is that you're just another lib falling for Pelosi/Reid talking points. By the way, did you look closely at the quote you pulled?:

"The main beneficiaries would be some 30 million people who have no coverage at work or have to buy it on their own."

Do you understand what that term, "have to," means? It means our beloved government will FORCE you to purchase it whether you want it or not. Whether you feel you can afford it or not. Whether you just don't want it because that's the decision you've made as an adult.

Yes, we've read the article. The question is, do you fully UNDERSTAND the article?

DG_W

READ THIS AGAIN!

"Second, if you think the insurance companies don't have democrats in their pockets you are a moron"

You do know what "if" means right? I called you a hypocrite because there is not way you can accuse JUST the republicans of insurance lobby pandering, yet you did.

Or do you actually think democrats are immune from insurance lobby pressure? You are either a hypocrite for stating something no one can possibly believe, or you actually do think this. My post assumed you were simply a hypocrite.

You really cant comprehend the meaning can you?

Wow. I guess I was wrong about you after all.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine".

TJ

From what I gather the writer of this article wants Hussein Obama to knock heads, in other words send his Chicago thugs to make sure the Democrats at the very least vote for the bill. May they plan to send the Muslim from Ft Hood to do the dirty work, if he ever gets out of the hospital...

...I don't know about the rest of America but I am tired to Americans, American taxpayers, American voters being threatened by anyone, foreign or domestic terrorists. The press and the ARMY are all scatching their heads, wondering what happened at Ft Hood, and your elected officials aren't listening to the public and some have their own agenda.

Yes, we need some health care reform, but we sure don't need what the House just passed. That is radical socialism, no more, no less. They want to take over business period and the head of it all has never had a job, nor run a business, just a community organizer. Can someone pull my finger please....I feel the need and I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican but I pray enough Democrats have sand and care enough about their country to stop this, in spite of threats...

I had a one on one conversation with John Conyers several months ago now and I have to say this man is an idiot! He has stated many time with me and in public on several occasions that he never reads any of the legislation that he votes for or against. He votes party line and thats it! I am an Independent and I am firmly against this bill!!! Not one estimate shows that it will make health care cost go down and actually make them spike at tremendous rates. And for the people suffering with pre existing conditions forget what they say. This bill will still make you wait six months before being covered. In addition we will have to start paying for it now and you will not be covered until 2013. In what world but government world do you have to pay for insurance and you are not covered immediately!! This bill will also charge $1900 to all US citizens even if they do not live in this country. So if you are living in any other country and paying taxes their and paying for Health insurance there you will also have to pay $1900 dollars for the uninsured and Illegals living in this country. The tax mandates in this bill are going to be unbearable and unsustainable! This is a disastrous bill. I do not believe that they can be this stupid it is intentionally pushing this country into collapse.

It's almost funny (but not quite,) that the SAME comments being made to object to the present health care reform bill were made when the Medicare program was being proposed. Yet how many millions of eldery on limited incomes have been helped by Medicare over the years? Is it perfect? Definitely not, but what senior other than the very wealthiest could afford the high cost hospitalziation, medications, doctor visits, etc. WITHOUT Medicare? (And by the way, Medicare IS "socialized" medicine.)

I find it hard for anyone to think that Obama is going to take anyone's advice except for that of those he surrounds himself with.

That is the reason I think that commentators such as Glen Beck make very strong points, and unusual because he backs them up with evidence. Whether or not you like his personality is inconsequential. The people that surround our President are nothing but ex-radicals that have wormed their way into our living rooms. The thing that strikes me the most is that many of the thoughts that he expounds are the thoughts that I had before I even listened to a word he said.

Aside from that, there are just those out there that love those liberal leanings and cling to them as though they are the Koran. Most of those folks won't change their minds until it is too late and they realize their personal loss of freedom.

How's the Kool-aid today Martine?

Do you speak in a droning fashion?

I'm still waiting for someone that supports this bill to explain to me how health care is going to be reformed? The cost of health care is not addressed, except to say the doctors will be paid less for Medicare.

My case - $7,000.00 a month for Student, a kidney cancer medication. My insurance policy co-payment is $35.00 per month. My insurance premium is $340.00 per month.

What does this bill do for the cost of Student? NOTHING. It will still be $7,000.00 per month.

As it stands right now I am one of the many, many, many success stories regarding illness and health care and my question is - what will happen if I'm forced into government health care? Well just look at what was published a few months ago in the N.Y. Times:

The New York Times published an editorial by Dr. Peter Singer, who is best known for his promotion of the idea that infanticide is okay, but consensual sex with Fido might be unethical–but only if it hurts the dog in the process.

Singer comes right out and advocates rationing of expensive health care, using the anti cancer drug Sutent as his example.

You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

I have a feeling Martine worked on that all morning.

"Just my thoughts"

Yes, you should be worried.

Sorry. That's about all you're gonna get from Obamacare..."sorry".

Martine seems to live in a magical mystical world where only black and white exists, and one is evil and the other perfectly good.

Odd thing is, as he or she professes the perfection of the democratic party, he or she does it with a bigoted rant.

Ironic..... Does this mean bigotry is OK again? Per the democratic party?

but NOBODY wants government controlled healthcare.

I'm sorry...but you're wrong insurance agent.

Because INSURANCE COMPANIES have blown it so bad...EVERYONE wants Medicare. Medicare is a... Oooo... "government run" Healthcare program. Oooo. (she'th thscared...oooh)

I don't get why they are pushing this down our throats but yet they the government are ALL exempt from this healthcare insurance . Mr Obama even refused to answer that question when asked by the media. If they are unwilling to enroll in this why should we have to?????

Martine WordPlaya

For someone who knows absolutly nothing about the history of our nation, even as recent as the last 55 years, you sure do think little of "republicans".

Todays republican is what the democrats were 50 years ago. Some are even "progressives". The democrat party I knew as a young man no longer exists. Back then I was idealistic and uninformed, I believed what they said. I was paying attention back in the 60's. Were you even born then? in 1972 I was elligible to vote and proudly pulled the lever for Geo. McGovern. Fortunatly I was outnumbered. The next mistake I made was in voting for Jimmy Carter. I paid for that mistake by losing my job due to his policies.

Today we have a new crop of people promising nirvanna, I have been working at the same company for 27 years and am again wondering which screw up the democrats will make to cost me my job. Every major inititive they have had since 1964 has set us further down the road to becoming a second rate nation, and if there is any way I can throw a monkey wrench in their spokes I will. Unlike the typical Democrat I have learned from my mistakes. I will probably never vote for a democrat again. If I vote for a republican, chances are it will be to opt for the lesser of evils. This is what 40 years of continuous democrat logic has caused. the only breaks we had was from 1994 through 2004. Hopefully we will vote these ner-do-wells out in 2010...no matter which party, as the whole House of representatives is up for re-election.

The 220-215 roll call Saturday by which the House passed a Democratic-written taxpayer funded/government health care bill. Voting for government health care were 219 Democrats and 1 Republican. They are listed below by state. These are the people we have to thank for trying to usher Marxism into America. Whether the Senate passes this bill or not, we need to vote them out of office ASAP, and repeal this terrible bill if it does pass, before it takes effect in 2013.

ALABAMA None

ALASKA None

ARIZONA Democrats — Giffords, Grijalva, Kirkpatrick, Mitchell, Pastor.

ARKANSAS Democrats — Berry, Snyder.

CALIFORNIA Democrats — Baca, Becerra, Berman, Capps, Cardoza, Chu, Costa, Davis, Eshoo, Farr, Filner, Garamendi, Harman, Honda, Lee, Lofgren, Matsui, McNerney, Miller, Napolitano, Pelosi, Richardson, Roybal-Allard, Sanchez, Linda T, Sanchez Loretta, Schiff, Sherman, Speier, Stark, Thompson, Waters, Watson, Waxman, Woolsey.

COLORADO Democrats — DeGette, Perlmutter, Polis, Salazar.

CONNECTICUT Democrats — Courtney, DeLauro, Himes, Larson, Murphy.

DELAWARE None

FLORIDA Democrats---Brown, Corrine, Castor, Grayson, Hastings, Klein, Meek, Wasserman Schultz, Wexler.

GEORGIA Democrats —Bishop, Johnson, Lewis, Scott.

HAWAII Democrats — Abercrombie, Hirono.

IDAHO None

ILLINOIS Democrats — Bean, Costello, Davis, Foster, Gutierrez, Halvorson, Hare, Jackson, Lipinski, Quigley, Rush, Schakowsky.

INDIANA Democrats — Carson, Donnelly, Ellsworth, Hill, Visclosky,

IOWA Democrats — Boswell, Braley, Loebsack.

KANSAS Democrats — Moore.

KENTUCKY Democrats — Yarmuth.

LOUISIANA Republicans —Cao,

MAINE Democrats — Michaud, Pingree.

MARYLAND Democrats — Cummings, Edwards, Hoyer, Ruppersberger, Sarbanes, Van Hollen.

MASSACHUSETTS Democrats — Capuano, Delahunt, Frank, Lynch, Markey, McGovern, Neal, Olver, Tierney, Tsongas.

MICHIGAN Democrats — Conyers, Dingell, Kildee, Kilpatrick, Levin, Peters, Schauer, Stupak.

MINNESOTA Democrats — Ellison, McCollum, Oberstar, Walz.

MISSISSIPPI Democrats —Thompson.

MISSOURI Democrats — Carnahan, Clay, Cleaver;

MONTANA None

NEBRASKA None

NEVADA Democrats — Berkley, Titus.

NEW HAMPSHIRE Democrats — Hodes, Shea-Porter.

NEW JERSEY Democrats — Andrews, Holt, Pallone, Pascrell, Payne, Rothman, Sires.

NEW MEXICO Democrats — Heinrich, Lujan

NEW YORK Democrats — Ackerman, Arcuri, Bishop, Clarke, Crowley, Engel, Hall, Higgins, Hinchey, Israel, Lowey, Maffei, Maloney, McCarthy, Meeks, Nadler, Owens, Rangel, Serrano, Slaughter, Tonko, Towns, Velazquez, Weiner.

NORTH CAROLINA Democrats — Butterfield, Etheridge, Miller, Price, Watt.

NORTH DAKOTA Democrats — Pomeroy.

OHIO Democrats —Driehaus, Fudge, Kaptur, Kilroy, Ryan, Space, Sutton, Wilson,.

OKLAHOMA None

OREGON Democrats — Blumenauer, DeFazio, Schrader, Wu.

PENNSYLVANIA Democrats —Brady, Carney, Dahlkemper, Doyle, Fattah, Kanjorski, Murphy Patrick, Murtha, Schwartz, Sestak.

RHODE ISLAND Democrats — Kennedy, Langevin.

SOUTH CAROLINA Democrats — Clyburn, Spratt.

SOUTH DAKOTA None

TENNESSEE Democrats — Cohen, Cooper.

TEXAS Democrats — Cuellar, Doggett, Gonzalez, Green Al, Green Gene, Hinojosa, Jackson-Lee, Johnson E. B., Ortiz, Reyes, Rodriguez.

UTAH None

VERMONT Democrats — Welch, Y.

VIRGINIA Democrats — Connolly, Moran, Perriello, Scott.

WASHINGTON Democrats —Dicks, Inslee, Larsen, McDermott, Smith.

WEST VIRGINIA Democrats — Mollohan, Rahall.

WISCONSIN Democrats — Baldwin, Kagen, Kind, Moore, Obey.

WYOMING None

Sheezuz,

Medicare is broke and unsustainable at current levels. That means reductions in payouts (less doctors accepting) or reductions in services (less procedures being performed) is the future of medicare. The only thing that makes medicare so good is the SUPLIMENTAL PRIVATE INSURANCE that makes the whole package affordable.

You don't know much about medicare, do you?

Good luck with that....

You're right, I should have stipulated that NOBODY SANE wants government run healthcare.

Sheezus, do you think this administration will magically institute a socialist program that WORKS?

So far government programs are batting .000, and you expect this high school administration to change that?

Naive.....gullible.............or just plain pig-headed?

Go to http.//flemming.house.gov/index.cfm. and vote saying government pushing healthcare insurance needs to also be on it and NOT be exempt.

These are the members of the House of Representatives from my state that voted for Government imposed health care. Listed also is the Senator from my state that plans to vote for this Marxist bill. I will do everything legally possible to see that they are not elected again. I will financially support, and actively campaign for anyone who runs against them. I would love to see all of you that agree with me to start posting the names of those from your state and a small message at the end of each posting.

MISSOURI Democrats — Carnahan, Clay, Cleaver, and Senator McCaskill. You do not represent the people of Missouri... only your own interests. You w2ill soon be only a bad memory.

So much hatred, so little time.

I don't get why they are pushing this down our throats but yet they the government are ALL exempt from this healthcare insurance .

<
P>That's because you are already on MEDICARE, "grandma."
Sheezuz,

Medicare is broke and unsustainable at current levels

Wrong butt wipe. What do you think we are fixing in the HEALTHCARE Bill? Our own arses? No. Equal medical availablity for ALL Americans. Let me repeat for those that are slowwwww... Medical for ALL Americansssssss.

sheezus

Medicare is paid for with Public funds but it is controlled and dispersed by Private Insurance Companies. It is broke along with every other Government program and every other Democratically controlled state. This bill will only do the same to the rest of the country! It is a disaster!!!

The senators aren't the only unhappy Americans.

I will say this - if I am ever in a position that the government IS FORCING ME TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE, the government will be sued.

CONGRESS HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE ALL AMERICANS TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE. They can't even use the commerce clause in the Constitution to squeak this buy.

sheezus.................I am not on Medicare!!!I am not even of retirement age . I am not even close to it. Another 17 years to go .Just because my vine name says"grandma'' doesn't mean I am old .

So pleeeeeeeeeeeze don't judge me as you don't know me.

Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, who voted for a version of the Senate bill in committee, has given the Democrats a possible way out. She's proposing to allow a government plan, if after a few years premiums keep escalating and local health insurance markets remain in the grip of a few big companies. This is the "trigger" option.

That approach appeals to moderates such as Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La. "If the private market fails to reform, there would be a fallback position," Landrieu said last week. "It should be triggered by choice and affordability, not by political whim."

Assuming we are going to eventually have this so called health care reform shoved down our throats what is wrong with the Republican Senator Snowe's idea as quoted above. Is it because a Republican thought of it or what?

We need true health care "reform." True "reform" controls costs and guarantees affordable coverage to all and yet at the same time does not force anyone to have it if they don't want it. Forcing people to have health care is like forcing people to buy a house in a town they don't want to live in, just plain wrong and unnecessary.

don't count your chickens before they hatch...

This bill is going to be passed. The Democrats up for reelection in 2010 will get a pass if their district is in trouble, and that will make it look bipartisan.

The others have been assured they have nothing to worry about. Obama is in charge of reseting the districts before 2012...after that we play King Obama and his Court.

Besides cuttting Medicare & Medicaid to partially pay for this, did you know that Sen Kerry pushed to add gov't payments for PRAYER HEALING TREATMENTS??? If taxpayer $$$ can not be used for abortions, how can it be used to support religious healing at the expensive of seniors and those on medicaid??? More Dems to the rescue with our $$$!!! Thanks Obama-san...keep the change!!!

I know that there are people who have lost their jobs due to the recession and I know that these people probably need some help, but how about first cleaning up the wefare system we have and get the 2nd and 3rd generation abusers off their lazy butts and make them work. Quit enableing them, help the people who are layed off with those funds, stop doing free doles to big businesses, put obama and his lovely wife along with both houses on the healthcare reform that they are trying to ram down our throats and let us keep what we have now!!!!!

BE STRONG SENATE AND DON'T GIVE IN TO THEIR THREATS AND BRIBES, YOU KNOW HOW THIS WILL TURN FOR AMERICANS IF THEY WIN THIS RACE.

Ernie, the trigger is just a head fake.

The insurance companies, unless they are forced to compete across state lines, won't - and can't to a large extent - do much of anything to change the status quo

Why? The status quo isn't just determined by them as much as it's determined by the actual COST OF HEALTH CARE. Which this bill does little if nothing to address, and in fact may exacerbate the acceleration of costs via putting more people under the price-fixed government run programs.

So when you set up a "trigger" based on them competing and reducing prices, but leave in place contradictory state vs. federal regulation that not only don't force them to compete but don't even ALLOW them to compete, then do nothing about defensive medicine and the price of malpractice insurance (estimated at nearly $300 billion anually), and put more people in the system? They CANNOT decrease rates, and in fact rates will by necessity go up.

That's why this bill sucks, DOH!

The trigger is mask, a farce, to try to get something passed under the cloak of "last resort" when the entire bill sets us up FOR the trigger to fire. It's just a matter of when.

And from Olympia Snowe, who's seen FIRST HAND what a failure programs like this are in ME, it's hypocrisy at it's worst.

Martine....

That's as dreamy and dopey a comparison of Democrats and Republicans as I believe I have ever seen.

I thought the purple blotter acid went away years ago.

DENNIS,

Put down the bong and wake up to reality.

B.O. does not care a thing about you. HE CARES ABOUT POWER ! All the back-room deals and political arm-twisting are for one reason only........to further the government takeover of our country. First it was the banks, then GM, then this disguised tax called "CAP AND TRADE". Polls show 85% of Americans are happy with their health care coverage.

To many Democrat and most Republican Senators who vote for final passage of this bill, enjoy the remainder of your final term in office. By By. Same goes for Democrat members of the House who preside over districts that are carried by swing voters, reserve that moving van now to avoid the rush after November 2nd, 2010. You have exactly 51 weeks to contemplate your removal from office by really ticked off voters.

"The president could take a few pages from Lyndon Johnson's book ... and start knocking heads together," said Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., chairman of the House Judiciary Committee."

I would think Rep Conyers would perhaps do the same thing to his wife, who's fighting charges of bribery and influence peddling.

Let's see now.

$500 Billion in cuts to Medicare - that should please the seniors.

$400 Billion in taxes and penalties to young people who don't want to buy insurance - that should make the young people who voted for the Democrats excited.

Higher premiums for the middle class to cover the higher costs of covering "pre-existing conditions" - that should make them happy.

Higher taxes and costs on businesses – that should help job growth.

Collect taxes and penalties for 3-5 years before ANY coverage kicks in - that should make everyone else happy, sort of like paying for a car for 3-5 years before we get to see it.

A "Public Option" that will drive insurance companies out of business because they won't have the taxpayer subsidies to compete, which will lose a million jobs or more,

Lower payments to doctors and hospitals, which will cause many of them to "retire early” or go out of business.

Is there any group that the Democrats left out when finding ways to screw up the economy?????

Oh - I almost forgot - They project the National Debt will go up by $1.2 Trillion more, which means it will ACTUALLY go up by about $3 Trillion because of this bill. Obama's own Budget calls for the National Debt to increase to over $23 Trillion in 10 years WITHOUT this bill's cost, but it's extremely optimistic, and will probably be over $30 Trillion, which will put our children and grandchildren hopelessly in debt to foreigners (like China).

I think that covers just about everyone, except perhaps the illegal immigrants, who will get free or subsidized health care at taxpayer expense, but they can't vote (at least for now).

We can't wait until next year's elections to show our appreciation.

Of course we'll have to contend with ACORN, who will register a few million extra imaginary voters and illegal immigrants for the next election.

You voted for “Change we can believe in”, and you certainly got it, didn't you.

I keep reading B.O.'s statements on healthcare reform. He say's it will provide insurance to almost all people. Doesnt the word provide mean pay for. The government is not paying for this. I am and so are all of you. Except for the poor, who already get free care.

How is making me pay for my own insurance providing health care for me?

We will all have to take a big pay cut for this one. Especially when B.O. and the dems pass their amnesty bill.

I agree with honest jo. First reply on this page

This from CNN news: Click here: d.yimg.com/kq/groups/17260182/1610997888...

This 2-minute video should be mandatory viewing for every US citizen. If you have never passed anything on before, pass this on! Every American should be outraged!

rest of link:

/name/ftc-vi26.wmv

JIM041424... You need to reread my post... I am saying VOTE the Marxists out of office. We are in agreement.

Advice for Obama: Knock heads on health care

Howbout someone knock AP's heads instead?

For all the IDIOTS on here that keep running off at the mouth about how President Obama never held a job but being a community organizer try getting a grasp on reality. President Obama was a professor of constitutional law at Harvard for years. Harry Truman ran a men's clothing store before going to Washington and he was qualified to drop 2 nuclear weapons.

To Doobie re Post 1.70. Yes we read the article, but that doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. It is an opinion article. Don't make judgements based on an opinion. "Deficit neutral" and over a trillion dollars cost just don't add up. You can't have both and America can't pay for this, either way.

Martine, Your post shows an extreme lack of understanding of what a Democrat OR a Republican is. Especially equating that a Democrat = intelligent decision making is a joke. We have a group of Democrats that are trying to create a govt. monopoly for health care. It is not their job or responsibility. It is not A Liberals responsibility to make everyone else be just like them. It is not their responsibility to take our freedoms away from us. I hope all these bills eventually die a complete death. This is not the way to fix the few problems of health care in America. Keep your rationing and denial of care. I don't want to lose my Employer-sponsored plan, but I most certainly will if one of these plans is put into play.

For now, Reid is trying to find the votes for a different approach: a government plan that states could opt out of.

So if states can opt out, at what point does the program fail to meet its financial objectives? Has anyone performed a sensitivity analysis if 5 states opt out, 10?, 15? 25? These knuckleheads in Washington would be run out of the business world for being incompetent and yet they sit in judgement of the business community and cast blame.

The cost of the House Bill on small business is enormous folks and 90% of all businesses in the United States are classified as SMALL.

The One Delta Ten Tangos reign supreme in this country.
(1 D 10 Ts for those who don't speak the jargon).

"Harry Truman ran a men's clothing store before going to Washington and he was qualified to drop 2 nuclear weapons."

Interesting a liberal Democrat attacks a Great Democrat president by letting you know he was a habberdasher before WWI. But failed to let you know that he was Captain Truman who commanded an artillery brigade in WWI with meritorious service. Truman was the last President not to go to college and by all measures of history was a damn fine president even if he was a democrat.

Rational AmeriCAN - thanks for post #1.119. It brings to the light that Harry Truman had more work, military and practical experience than our current President has. I really wish our President knew what it was like for the working man (woman.) His actions are those of a person in an ivory tower, cut off from the masses, out of touch with the real world.

Democrats now /= Democrats then.

Back then, you could call someone that shot 43 people for religious reasons a terrorist. Back then, the military could have kicked him out entirely, now they have to be politically correct.

Political correctness will be the death of this country.

jan please explain wha exactly living on the brink of bankruptcy/poverty is . it sounds really horrible , the thought of so manys futures in the hands of greedy democrats is truely worrisome

wtoc well you can't explain "living on the brink of bankruptcy/poverty" because you can't make ends meet, or have to choose paying for rent/heat or eating...that's the problem just because you have you think everyone else should have the same experiences but "LIFE" doesn't work that way....During this Holiday season maybe instead of chugging down a beer or having a glass of white wine with your meal you should go down to areas in your town and help care for HOMELESS Family's and SEE what they go through God bless America and God Bless The President hope you never have to find out the answer to your question:(

Jan: If you truly know of anyone in Connecticut (one of, if not the most, expensive, overtaxed states in the US) living on the brink of bankruptcy/poverty, they need to relocate to a friendlier state that has a lower cost of living to earnings ratio. Of course, I assume you are talking about people who actually earn a living, and don't just sponge off the rest of us.

You bet I know someone - my own adult son and daughter who lost their jobs in the economic mess caused by Bush and company. My son has taken a much lesser-paying job that includes a long commute. My daughter, a new widow, is still barely making ends meet and grateful for the unemployment insurance. She searches daily for jobs for which she qualifies, but they're not there. She needs medical attention but cannot afford it. Both my kids have college degrees and they have contributed to their communities all their adult lives. As for leaving the state, why should they leave an area where they have famiy and lifelong friends? And how will they afford moving costs? You offer a glib solution to a complex problem.

Your liberal politicians have created an unfriendly environment for industry in your state and corporations have been leaving CN, NY and NJ in droves. Unless your son and daughter are self employed, the pickins are slim.

I disagree - the state has been run by Republicans for years. It's true that corporations have been leaving the state - callously leaving long-term employees behind with "slim pickins". But hey, isn't that capitalism? Maximum profits for the bottom line? Isn't that what the GOP favors? Laissez faire and all that?

There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

Jan, sorry to hear your childrens misfortunes, but how the hell will healthcare reform help your children find a job? It is going to get harder so hang in there...

Jan -

Whether your state has been run by Republicans or not is less than half the question, the other question you should ask yourself is if they were conservatives, or RINOs. Additionally, much of the policy that has been so disastrous is Federal policy, the Federal government sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong.

I will point this out to you, too: NY and CA have been run by liberal Democrats and look at the shape they're in. Not to mention MI and MA. MA already has this type of healthcare and it's going broke. ME has tried it, IT'S going broke, same in TN.

Bush was not a fiscal conservative, and many of things he did that may have contributed to the financial hardships we may or may not be coming out of were a result of two things: 1. His own initiatives that were not at all fiscally conservative in nature, ie big spending, big government (example, Medicare drug coverage, unfunded, passed by Democrats and signed by him), and 2. Liberal interference, ie blocking re-regulation of Fannie/Freddie - several times, to name one.

The solution to those problems is NOT more big spending and more big government. Obama is trying that, and look where it's led us: More debt, the biggetst deficit EVER, and no jobs. And he continues to push this health scare and crap and tax, both of which are job killers - now and in the future.

I'm sorry for your children's troubles. But I also dread a country that gives away it's wealth like we are, that continuously rewards bad behavior and punishes good (and I include Wall Street welfare in that, not just deadbeat welfare), that taxes and regulates industry to the extent that it leaves, and then forces unions upon those that remain.

Your kids are paying the price for decades of policy that supports this, not eight years. Stop blaming Bush, FFS. Blame Carter, Reagan, Bush I & Clinton - it all lead up to where we are now. Bush could have and should have done something about the disaster we were heading for, no doubt. But so could Obama, and he's just doing the same crap.

And in 10 years? It will be my kids paying the price too.

I'm unhappy with the stupid bill! I DON'T WANT IT! Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly, maybe I need to see an army psychiatrist.

Jan - You are totally wrong about your state being run by Republicans. Conn. is run by Democrats and has nothing but Democrats in the Senate of the United States. Your state senate has a republican leader but he is in the minority. His only job is to vote to break a tie. You need to sit down and maybe have your kids give you an education. That is if they are independent thinkers and don't follow mom blindly.

Your state is seeing the results of democratic decisions. Don't believe what the liberals say. Look into what their results are.

Yes Jan, that is capitalism. What's your point? Should those companies remain in your tax heavy state just so that your son and daughter can work? Guess what, that jobs will go to states that are more business friendly.

When a company leaves your state and goes to another state, someone else's son and daughter get a job. Instead on Connecticut, someone in New Mexico or Wyoming will get a job.

And in regards to Joe Lieberman and Nancy Pelosi having health care plans that are better than yours... they should. That is the position they have risen to, and that is one of the biggest perks. People in the military also deserve a better health care plan than the UAW workers. Sorry, but popping rivets into a door, doing a job that my kid sister could learn how to do in a week doesn't really entitle you to $28 and hour and lifelong health care.

I DO WANT health care reform!

I DO WANT choice!

Now, I haven't read the entire bill (has anyone?), but I WANT options available to me!

That said, I don't really think there was ever an intention to pass a bill anyway all the way through.

Hot damn, the record is intact. In every discussion on this site concerning a current problem, some lib jumps in and blames it on Bush. Way to go, Jan!

Oh, by the way, I betcha Liebermann wins reelection easily. The other Connecticutt senator - Chris Dodd whose shenanigans with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are largely to blame for the economic collapse - is in some serious reelection jeopardy.

Uh. I missed the part about Jan being in CT, my bad.

Jan. Learn about your state. CT is, as was pointed out, on the list of states run INTO THE GROUND by liberal/Democratic policy.

Admiral Sundown - No Pelosi and Liberman do not deserve better health care than they are willing to give the taxpayers. They are no better than us, and in Pelosi's care, probably not as good due to the harm she has brought to our country by creating an "entitlement" generation. (Someone has to pay for the entitlement folks, and we are running out of those who can.) And if you think that the Military is receiving better care than the UAW, you are sadly mistaken. Go stand in line at the VA and then be turned away. Wait for months to see a Dr. I even have a friend who is a widow of a military retiree. She has to drive counties away to seek treatment under the Military care. She is forced to wait too. She does pay less, but suffers longer waiting for care. Is that really better?

Jan, before you go belly up sell your computer and shut off the ISP. This way, both you and we win.

Jan

Joe Lieberman will tell you that medical bills to every non-senior citizen is billed at 130% the actual cost. This is to pay for medicare and medicaid underpaying the medical community for services. THIS bill is going to raise that amount above 130% and will BANKRUPT the rest of middle America.

Not a Socialist,

Please tell me the last good times for the working class under a GOP president especially blue collar workers.Of 13 recessions or Depressions 10 occurred during GOP Administrations. Most recently in the Bush years jobs created paid less than jobs lost jobless growth has been the hallmark of both Bushes and Reagan. Reagan drove down well paid union jobs, discontinued higher education loans, brought about the S&L crisis, deregulated credit cards and sold American heavy industry overseas. The brave new world of Reaganomics and a service economy began the 30 yr decline of the middle class, wealth creation does not expand the economy for all only the top 10% or so while the rest accrue phenomenal debt service and greatly diminished savings and a weak cash position.

Healthcare for a family of four costs over $12,000.00 and by 2018 will cost $25,000.00 at the current rate of increase, we are incapable of sustaining this it will bring about a constant uninsured of 100million citizens. These numbers will overwhelm the emergency and social welfare systems. The best years economically for the vast majority have occurred during Democratic Administrations with middle class contraction happening in each and every Republican Administration since Nixon.

JKHayes

Jan. Learn about your state. CT is, as was pointed out, on the list of states run INTO THE GROUND by liberal/Democratic policy.

I live in Washington state, which is solidly blue. We have had a Democratic governor for many years...and yes, our state is currently awash in red ink. You know why? We have the misfortune of having Republican "tax guru" Tim Eyman (who I know for a fact has in-laws who regularly cheat on their taxes!) filing referendum after referendum to cut taxes here to benefit the wealthy. He's been good at hiding the fact that his bills benefit the rich...but his last one was soundly trounced, and although he says he will keep trying, his days are over.

Republicans like Tim Eyman are why our state has a serious budget deficit, not the Democrats in government. He needs to move out of state...and his days of breaking the state budget need to go with him. Maybe he can move north to Palinville!

2. Liberal interference, ie blocking re-regulation of Fannie/Freddie - several times, to name one.

And to any fool who comes along and tries to point the blame at Bush for not try and address this during his presidency or was even considered a problem, please see the linked article from Market Watch Nov. 6 2003.

White House warns of GSE risks

The notion that the U.S. government would bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac if they ran into financial trouble "creates a source of systemic risk for our financial system," a top White House economic adviser warned Thursday.

Fannie Mae spokesman Chuck Greener disagreed with the administration's assertions about the implicit government guarantee.

"This is a question that has been asked and answered many times before, and in our view, has been refuted definitively by policymakers and economic experts," he said.

pragmatic, the entire country was "run into the ground" by Bush and the neo-conservative radical fundamentalist republicans.

JKHayes - your opinions stink!

I would like a list of families of four who pay $12,000.00 per year for their health insurance. Do they actually pay out of their own pocket? Do they use up their full $12,000.00 per year in services? What is their total family income? What is their mortgage payment? What's more important to them, a nice car and a nice home or good health? How much of their total income is paid out in state, local. and federal taxes already? Life is not a free ride people. Pick your priorities and enjoy life as best you can. Quit listening to the doom and gloom from the liberals and the JKHayes' of the country.

Jan....

Fact is not otherwise known as "Pin the Tail on the Republican".

Connecticut is not run by the Republicans you want to blame for the state's problems. We have a Republican governor...period. The state legislature is OVERWHELMINGLY Democratic and has been so for years.

Their dominance of the state's government is so bad that the Hartford Courant ran a lengthy story and printed photos of Democratic state "leaders" playing video games and reading sports news on the internet while a Republican legislator was giving a speech. They don't even give Republicans the simple respect it would take to listen.

Posting "information" and "misinformation" on this site are not the same thing. But....once again...always blame the Republicans whether they deserve it or not, for anything one might be upset with.

Joe, Do you have facts and examples or just adjectives? The economy started to falling in late 2006.....isn't that when your dumbocraps took over congress. GET A GRIP , you are so far off base, you could be in right field ( that would be too drastic an improvement) I mean left field.

Jim Hayes-375865

Before you spout the party line bs you need an education. Jimmy Carter through his democratic majority in the House and Senate passed legislation that helped to cripple manufacturing in the USA. But that was not the first blow, it was delivered by LBJ and his democrat majority when they redid the tax laws allowing American Companies to move their operation off shore, make whatever they made, then import it back here without paying import taxes. We are paying for this stupidity today coupled with the Peanut farmer's anti industrial record.

Union workers lost what under Pres Reagan? I lost nothing. But with control firmly in the dems hands I am starting to get nervous. College loans? My younger brother was in college when Reagan was President and he had no problem getting financial aid. As far an the S & L scandal, the Democrats had control of the legislature from 1954-1994...that is a indisputable fact, and it was also while Reagan was President! The idea of a service economy was started long before Reagan. Try under Johnson. That is when Medicare and Medicaid were created and manufacturing was set up to die. Just like you will be under democrat health care reform.

I don't know where you get your figures for the cost of health care insurance, but here in Michigan if I had to pay my Blue Cross (as COBRA if I were unemployed) it would cost me no more than $9,600.00 a year, and it is pretty decent insurance.

DG_W - Tim Eyman is not the reason your state is in the red. The initiatives that he has brought to the public for votes were decided by the voters. His last one lost by a large margin because there was an awful lot of money spent on ads to defeat it. Your state is run by a bunch of liberals that try to destroy Tim Eyman because he has been successful in cutting taxes in the past. I was watching television news the night that one of his first initiatives passed, I believe it was the the car tab bill. I saw your King County Administrator, Ron Sims Dem. interviewed. He was mad as hell, he stated that if that is what the people in the state wanted he would give it to them, cuts in social services, cuts in police and fire departments, cuts in every department except administration officials. You should have seen his face, he was livid. That news clip was never shown again on television. I will bet he had that destroyed. The liberals are running Washington State into a hole. It is a state that has so many good things going for it as far as employment but the elected officials have managed to even send Boeing out of state. Liberal spend spend spend does not work!!!

Your state is run by a bunch of liberals that try to destroy Tim Eyman because he has been successful in cutting taxes in the past.

Tim Eyman needs to be "destroyed"! He gets these initiatives passed (which many people now regret), but his in-laws, including the family's "tax expert" (her name is Sue), have made bushels of money by cheating on their taxes! His in-laws own several apartment complexes (under the name "[someone's] Investments"; I won't use the full name) and have made a living juggling assets to benefit the complex they want to profit from that week. Sue also does the family income taxes, and has bragged (and done it) that she can turn someone's taxes from having to pay to getting a large return in a matter of minutes. Their tax cheating led my wife to quit their employ because she got concerned about how they did it, by finding an employee who was not a family member to unwittingly take the fall.

Yes, Tim Eyman...all around good guy, with upstanding family and in-laws...

This will pass!!!!

Another threat eh? Not mob rule, but bully rule. Those with the biggest thugs rule? All I can say to this bill the House passed, if this is the best Democrats got, you have an Edsel?
I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican but this is lacking sanity, and you need to read the bill, not just vote on it to see why. Your legislators aren't reading it.

From what I gather the writer of this article wants Hussein Obama to knock heads, in other words send his Chicago thugs to make sure the Democrats at the very least vote for the bill. May they plan to send the Muslim from Ft Hood to do the dirty work, if he ever gets out of the hospital...

...I don't know about the rest of America but I am tired to Americans, American taxpayers, American voters being threatened by anyone, foreign or domestic terrorists. The press and the ARMY are all scatching their heads, wondering what happened at Ft Hood, and your elected officials aren't listening to the public and some have their own agenda.

Yes, we need some health care reform, but we sure don't need what the House just passed. That is radical socialism, no more, no less. They want to take over business period and the head of it all has never had a job, nor run a business, just a community organizer. Can someone pull my finger please....I feel the need and I'm not a Democrat nor a Republican but I pray enough Democrats have sand and care enough about their country to stop this, in spite of threats...

All I have to say if someone threatens me is, "lock and load....last one standing lives!"

Nice, this country's future boils down to 220 morons. Liberalism is a mental disorder. This country was built on entrepreneurs who took a chance and invested their time and money to start a business. Some of those business grew into major corporations. If it weren't not for these individuals, most people would not have jobs. But yet liberals would say corporations are evil. Liberals would say people who make over a certain amount of money are evil. So, let's say EVERYONE decided they had enough and stopped creating new businesses and new jobs. Let's say EVERY business decided to close their doors and stop employing people. Should we all expect to collect welfare from the Government? Where would the money come from? What if ALL doctors said F#$% it and closed their doors. Who is responsible for taking care of you dumba$$e$ then. I bet people would take better care of themselves. Perhaps people would give up smoking, eat better, stopping treating their bodies like they are invincible. If I said F#$% all you people, quit my job (so you don't get my tax money) and become self sufficent - plant my own food, live off the land - am I responsible for giving my neighbors food from my garden? No? So, why should I have to give up 50% of the money I EARNED... that I WORKED for so you can have healthcare. The only thing I believe everyone should be entitled to is an education.... whatever level they want to achieve.... from there you're on your own. Why should less than 1,000 people running this country be allowed to control our lives. I was born a free man, and I will not die as a slave to Obama or this government. I WON'T.

Auto Insurance and Health Insurance

My recent post that there is an analogy between the two was rebutted with various statements that I can only characterize as canards. The nuances of auto insurance versus national health insurance are simple argument to make and those I have read have a healthy dose of deceit as stated. We only need to look at the cost factors involved to see the relationship between the two. All of us that have auto insurance are charged a portion of our premiums due to the cost of the auto insurance companies paying out due to those without auto insurance that affects the company's clients. I carry ( read pay ) a policy that covers me for uninsured drivers.

We (society) pay for the emergency care and other medical care for the uninsured in the form of higher and ever higher premiums, which is to say the cost is passed on to us. To require everyone to carry health insurance, as I see it, can only reduce or stabilize the current cost to all of us that carry health insurance. I have yet to read an honest statement that this will not be a benefit to those that now have health insurance. 98% of small business is excluded from the mandated business provision.

Lets get on board with the rest of the modernized world and provide a national health plan that will "straighten out the cost curve and bend down reduce said curve over time". The money is pocket change compared to the "bail out" moneys and "cash for clunkers" that seem so acceptable. Talk about Socialism, where is the outcry here? Corporate welfare? Outsourcing American jobs?

POST SCRIPT:

The last number I have heard is 23 Trillion into the "bail out" of Wall Street. Lets get our priorities right and try and get that money back to the American taxpayer. We are arguing over nickels and dimes and the dollars are rolling bye. Mass distraction...............

Please tell me the last good times for the working class under a GOP president especially blue collar workers

Even if Democrats had an answer to this question, they wouldn't care.

When Bill Clinton left office, unemployment WAS LESS THAN 4%, we had a budget SURPLUS and we were happy.

We could have put his wife in office and she would have been certain to include Bill in her cabinet, but NO, the Democrats thought that Obama was a gift from God.

Gee thanks you idiots. Don't vote next time. You've already done enough damage.

We do have a Democrat majority in the Ct. state legislature - but our Republican governor, Jody Rell, holds plenty of constitutional power. She managed to hold up the budget vote for weeks and weeks. She has slashed state programs where she could, and the state will definitely suffer as will all state and local governments. What else is new around the country?

Without a public option, medical costs will only go up as we pay for indigent and emergency care and fraud. A hospital room costs twice the price of a lucury hotel room per night. As PERSEVERE mentioned, maybe those of us who have medical insurance now will at least not see premiums rise if more people have some form of insurance that covers basics.

I still say Joe Lieberman was out of line by knocking the public option right out of the gate. Give me someone willing to listen and respond without blowing his own horn.

I've enjoyed reading all the comments - thanks - jan

From a non-Connecticut college grad, Joe Lieberman has shown wisdom, intelligence, independent thought and rare integrity far beyond many members in our Congress. He knows this is crappy legislation.

Do the math. Government-run Medicare is broke. So is social security. Our U.S. Postal Service is floundering. Furthermore, a lot of stupid governmental rules over the years have caused us to lose our competitive advantage in a truly global economy.

And then we have the truly conniving, deceitful ways in which this legislation has been by partisan democrats without any input from the republicans. At least, Joe Liebermann has showed some common sense.

while the nation slides further down the drain the self loving idiots that put us in the position we are in congratulate themselves for another worthless piece of legislation that creates more hardships for the average american.

with millions out of work and the tax base rapidly shrinking the morons in congress attack health care reform and virtually ignore the catatonic economy.no job = no health insurance and yet the ceaseless blabbering by both parties underscores how far removed from reality these limp-wristed weasels really are.

if anyone is dumb enough to malign themselves with either party at this point their stupidity is evident for all to see.the fantasy that it's a democratic or republican mandate is only smoke and mirrors designed to keep the witless morons argueing amongst themselves.

this serves a number of purposes but the primary benifits to those who seek to retain and expand power are these:it keeps the focus off of what these worms are actually doing and more importantly it keeps the citizenry at odds with each other which allows the madness to continue unabated.

the dumbing down of america has come full circle as long as the predictable responses that the american public has displayed to this point continues to be the norm.......

Advice for obama: Knock heads on health care. ADVICE FOR OBAMA: You're gonna get knocked on your ass by the American people!

first mr conyers has the same attitude as the street gangsa. agree with me or i'll kick your butt. second this legislation means i will be paying for the care of lazy welfare slags and all the illegal innigrants the libs can squeeze into our little country. i pay enough now. i keep healthy so my premiums are manageable. but they will skyrocket when the morbidly obese, diabetic, smoker, alcoholics are added to the free ride. let them take some responsibility dfor their own lives.

JH,

Late in replying,

I have been in Delaware County Memorail Hospital for eight days, the cost will be around $100,000.00 with no surgeries, many tests,diagnostics, cardiac monitoring, private room, for imune system issues, telemetry and blood transfusions. When I have been hospitalized out of the country the charges are 1/3 to 1/2 and Personal choice fights tooth and nail so that I now travel with American Express travel insurance. I am currently fighting my insurance who want to pay Canadian National insurance only $350.00 for a helicopter medivac of my daughter from Whistler to Vancouver where she was injured training for USA luge, thats an example of how much they care about those representing the US. If you so choose type health insurance cost family of four non group and you will find that The range of answers is $12,000 to $13,500.00 depending on criteria used. This is the cost virtually all self employed people face for a policy such as Pesonal Choice. Some states with minimal state standards for coverage are less some are more.

JKHayes

Chevs Marc,

Union representation in the 1980s fell from an all time high of 24.2% of the population to 16% by 1999 it was 13%. This is beyond the end of union involvement in workplace safety, the decline of wages and retirement benefits and the change in pension lockbox laws that allowed pension raiding and hostile takeovers and union elimination legislation. Right to work laws have translated into right to be underpaid and have no retirement or benefit laws. Taft Hartley reforms have been fought by the GOP and Southern dems and were defeated under Carter and Clinton although supported by both administrations. Gerald Ford vetoed 66 bills of which more than half had pro labor provisos.

You apparently have no idea what a service economy means, it was a term unheard of and found in no economic text until Reagan proposed it as the major tennet of Reaganomics/Trickle Down. It is an idiotic concept that industrial power is a nonreqyisite for growth and that providing service and technological support can grow an economy without an industrial base and that spending and credit can grow an economy through a dollar revolving through society as the example used by Reagan. It has proven to be manifestly untrue. Wealth creation which this encourages centralizes money and power in a smaller number of hands and expands poverty, and shrinks the middle class while creating a whole new class of uber-wealthy who deal in paper transactions, investments largely foreign which have no tangible benefit to the vast majority of Americans.

Memory is a tricky thing, Unemployment went down from 8.5% under Ford to 5.8% under Carter because of his pro labor policies, family income increased from $12,686.00 to $17,100.00. Carters biggest problem was the inflationary spiral he inherited from good old Whip Inflation Now Gerry Ford and the ascendent power of OPEC. Please show me how a po-labor LBJ and Carter began a service economy and what anti-labor legislation they advocated.

JKHayes

As one of the millions of suffering citizens in Michigan, I'd like to knock Conyers head into Granholm's, with stinking BO's head in the middle.

Hardog: Anyone with a brain!

I agree. Your congressmen and representatives should not have any better health benefits than anyone else, paid for by taxpayers. Did you know they vote on their own pay raises? They also get the same benefits 30 year veterans get if they only spend 6 years in congress.

But this health care bill is a SHAM, a SCAM, and any reasonable person would not vote for it.

I say to our congressmen and representatives....if you want the public option, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO BE ON IT! Some of us have seen the public option in other venues....it stinks!

Most of the government health plans also have groups within the insurance industry who call up your doctor and complain about the tests they order for you, claiming they are un-necessary and that according to their lists they won't pay for them. In these cases only one law needs passed....the health insurance company clerk cannot tell your doctor what to do, it's that simple, not a socialized takeover of all. Some insurance companies simply pay the bills, at a discounted rate of course, but most of the government health plans really aren't that great.

Earlier when I worked for the Government I took them to court and won. They paid for the operation which my doctor said was necessary, and now my daughter can hear thanks to the doctor not the insurance company.

They need to interview 10,000 - 500,000 doctors. Most actually want to be doctors, not insurance pony riders...

Let's see....

1. Economic stimulus bill that no one wanted, yet we and our offspring will be paying for ad infinitum.

2. Cap and trade that no one wants, yet we and our offspring will be paying for ad infinitum.

3. Socialized health care that no one wants, yet we and our offspring will be paying for ad infinitum.

And that, folks, has happened in 10 short months. November, 2010 and December, 2012 can't get here soon enough.

Sorry 314159.....the majority of Americans (53%) want health care reform with a publicly funded option...one that can give big insurance some competition and lower costs for the average citizen. I am tired of hearing the rants of those who care for no one but themselves. It is going to be a really sad day if this bill doesn't pass and the insurance lobby wins. To me that means that our lawmakers care more about their own private agendas than the welfare of everyday Americans who are struggling.

I don't need health care reform...I am retired and on medicare; however, I am trying to look at the larger picture and the many citizens who would benefit. What we have now is not working.

Brett...I haven't seen any legitimate polls showing that the majority DO NOT want health care reform....I've just heard a lot of screaming and yelling from those who perceive this as an attempt by government to take over our health care system.

Your comments are spoken like a person who does not have any concern about those who might be less fortunate than you....sad.

kaara

Brett plainly writes THIS reform. CNN, Gallup, and Rasmussen all show that the majority don't approve of this legislation.

kaara,

You're equating people wanting healthcare reform with people in favor of THIS bill and it's just not true. I'd love to see healthcare reform, but I think this bill STINKS.

Sorry kaara but your are incorrect, or perhaps, misinformed. Check out the Rasmussen poll..., oh but wait..., he must be a right wing, wing-nut because his poll doesn't support your thesis...

Are you nuts the majority if Americans want healthcare reform now.

Jac, your correct this is a mandate, which in a way is a good thing because it is unconstitutional which means those people that are against it can take it to the supreme court. Could you imagine the American people taking it to the supreme court? Roe vs Wade would look like an abortion itself!!!!!!!

We want Reform, not this piece of trash bill. Reform does not constitute gov't run take over and require 2000 pgs. of legalese to hoodwink the public. People of this country are not stupid, just broke. But the libs want a Cadillac on a Volkswagen budget..

Right Wing Extremist....you are correct. THis is a mandate that forces Americans to purchase health insurance to protect themselves. When did this country decide to force people to do anything. There are many Americans that choose not to purchase health insurance. I was one of them. As a 22 year old coming out of school, I chose not to carry health insurance for several years. I need the money for other things. I'm now 29 and thankful for the insurance I have but again its still my choice to protect my self with it. While I was taking a gamble that I wouldn't get hurt or diagnosed with a major disease but that was my choice. Now it won't be. I was able to choose to save over $10k in my early 20's that allowed me to purchase a home (as there was no $8k tax payer give out to first time home buyers then) and build a good financial foundation. Now, the youth of America will not have that option but be forced to spend their money on something they may not want. This bill sucks. Vote out all Dems that voted for it next year!

I still disagree Willowbrook. I do thing our elected officials deserve top of the line health care; health care that we REALLY couldn't afford to hand out to the population at large.

As to the VA, when I was in the service, the medical care for myself and my family was great. Talking to some of the other vets and retirees here in NM, I haven't really run across much dissatisfaction with the VA system.

Well stated popeye

Karra, you said you are tired of hearing rant from people who only care about themselves. Where in the Constitution does it say that I am required to care about you or anyone else. I'm tired of hearing ranting from people like you who believe it is my responsibility to care for others. I take full responsibility for myself and my family. I do not have kids that I cannot afford. I do not run up credit card debt to pretend I"m somebody I'm not. I live in an affordable home and pay my bills and taxes. Is it too much to ask that the REST OF YOU DO THE SAME! Obama is destroying this country... and I say it IS BY DESIGN. Wake up Americians... The country has been hijacked by a phoney president. Why else would this putz apologize for America at every turn. And then when we are attacked by terrorist on America soil.. this phoney... this imposter.... says that we should not jump to conclusions. When should be jump to the conclusion terrorists are on the move on our soil? This phoney president has put us at risk. Mark my words.... there will be more and more attacks on Americans with this phoney leading this country. So, what's next on Husseins agenda.... 1) legalizing all the illegal mexicans... 2) taking over the energy companies... 3) creating his Civil Security force... We are being taken over by this phoney president and you people are blind.... but you say he's doing it with a smile on his face... he's charismatic.... HE IS A WOLF in Sheep's clothing... Unforturnately, there is nothing true Americans (hard working free men/women) can do. Obama said he wanted to fundamentally change the greatest nation on this earth... and you are letting him. He is an arrogant thug from chicago and sickens me.

Now go get a job and pay for all those illigitmate kids you have.

Poopeye, these representatives and senators are not representing the people. Why do you think it's taking so long to pass a healthcare hijack bill? These representatives and senators are being either strong armed by obama thugs or bought off by Nancy Legosi (like Bella Legosi). Half of these representatives are pimps or whores. The have sold themselves to the highest bidder. Even you cannot dispute that. They have lost moral fortitude in order to have some pet project in their backyard. Wake up.. get real.. And for pete sake... someone tell me where it is written that it is my responsibility to take care of you... why should over 50% of my earned income go to take care of you? Why should anyone try to succeed in this rat hole country if you are rewarded with taking care of all these leeches pouring into this country. This country is turning into a cesspool.

Popeye - because we elected them to represent us doesn't mean they are..., silly sailor!

laurie you do understand that only the fees and taxes begin in2010 right? the benifits will begin in 2013 and be fully implemented by2019 . and grow up ,just because billy pulled your hair , doesn`t make it right you to kick him the balls!

Typical-No benefits are available until 2013 while taxes take effect in 2010(if passed). Now, how many people do you honestly think are going to better off in 2010 when the next elections occur?

Laurie: YOU are the one sadly mistaken. If passed, this health care bill won't be implemented for FIVE years, but taxes begin in 2010. Hmmmm, no benefits, but additional taxes. Yeah, that's really gonna help the Dems get reelected. LOL.

Don't be so sure about that....some of the benefits will begin immediately especially those that help seniors like the 50% closing of the donut hole. This is extremely important to seniors and one benefit they are looking forward to. Additionally, those people who cannot get health insurance now because of pre-existing conditions or some other problems will be able to get insurance immediately. So don't underestimate the effect of that in an election year. Some of the benefits will be excelerated to show results in an election year. And wtoc....I have no idea what your silly comment even meant. Try sticking to the facts of the debate and you'll do much better.

So you think that those with a preexisting condition that might benefit in '10 will out number the people whose taxes will go up without any benefits.

dcisshoelready - You are being lied to I'm afraid. Quite the opposite....insurance premiums will start to go down especially if there is a public option to compete with private companies and start to reign in premiums. Additionally if anti-trust protections can be eliminated, that will also bring down premiums.

Another thought, the cost of the uninsured which is written into everyones premiums will start to go down as more uninsured people get insurance. BTW, it is not a tax increase to pay for insurance coverage. Most states require people to carry auto insurance in order to drive and that is not considered a tax it's considered insurance on your car.

Laurie - hopefully the goverment will be providing mental health coverage for all those people attempting suicide because the economy is in the tank. That's is the first thing (economy) the idiots in DC should be worried about. The rest of the agenda is all crap (cap and trade, auto co. take overs, amd last but not least healthcare). There is no free lunch and if you think this is happening for free you should be in DC too.

You still in no way answered my question that you brought up about the election. Do you think more people will benefit in '10 than will have their taxes go up. "not a tax increase". Now who has been lied to or is ignoring the facts. The bill is 1.2 trillion. How in the hell do you think its going to be paid for? You show your ignorance using car insurance as an example Car insurance is mandated to cover hurting the other guy and using it for health insurance reform is as idiotic as death panels. The truth of the matter is you still haven't debated the pluses of the bill to '10 voters.

Laurie - Irrelevant comment. If I do not own a car I am not mandated to get insurance by the state.....in other words it's my choice. Plus it has nothing to do with driving....I can drive anyone's car without having to BUY my own insurance policy.

Ann - But if you get sick and don't have insurance...then we all have to pay for you. That's a fact and it won't change if we don't get health insurance reform. It will only get worse. So if you don't want to pay for other people's health coverage, then you should be for this bill. If you want to continue to pay which you will then I guess you don't want reform.

Why would a health insurance company agree to insure someone with a pre-existing condition? Would an auto insurance company agree to insure a car that was dented and/or didn't run, or maybe needed transmission work, and then pay for the repairs? Would a life insurance company insure someone who is deceased, and then pay the policy when the claim was presented by a relative?

If someone was dropped by an insurance company because of their condition, then that insurance company should be required to pick the policy back up at the premiums charged before the condition was dianosed.

laurie -

Aren't we going to be paying either way? With the healthcare bill it might be more expensive because you're forcing insurance on people who don't need anything but catostrphic coverage. So everyone will be paying more just in case some one get's sick or injured who can't affor insurance. if you want people to get coverage make it affordable don't mandate it. You make it affordable by opening up competition nation wide, tort reform, standardized incurance claim forms (to reduce admin costs), etc. There is no way you're going to make it cheaper by forcing people to buy coverage. Creating this public option with all kinds of cross agency access to your financials and medical records begs the question why? The answer seems to me to be private industry control nothing more and nothing less. The governments never ending search for money and self-justification is at the root of all this garbage.

Laurie, your a "GEM"!!!!!!!!

If you want to stop paying for other peoples' medical cost that cant afford insurance then we need to insure them? I almost fell out of my chair when read that, I think that is what you call a "OXYMORON"!!!!

lairie u r wrong insurance preimiums wont go down. I live in mass and we have this government mandated healthcare, guess what prices havent gone down and the deductables for this has gone up. Furthuremore I dont want my money stolen if I choose to not buy into the manditory insurance BS. If it passes Ill just claim more dependants and wont file for my taxes cause IM NOT PAYING FOR YOU PEOPLE THAT WANTS THIS BILL!!!!! I dont have to buy anything I dont want. Thats the issue the government is forcing you to buy something. There is no choice involved. You either do it or the governments going to threated you into buying this. Now you can sit there and say well you dont file your taxes you go to jail, yup guess what Im still not paying for your health insurance. It is high time we the people took back our country from these @!$%# politicans in D.C. People will find ways around the penalty. At this point I dont give a damn about @!$%#, this government has gone to far once too often. We are loseing our freedoms, jobs and more and yet people still want handouts by the government. The government could have made new laws to the excisting insurance industry but decided not to.

Ron, you say "I don't have to buy anything I don't want."

Well, ahem, yes, yes you do, and yes, we all do.

For example, I am single, no kids, can't have kids even if I wanted to. I pay about $300 a month (or 2/3rds of my real estate tax bill) into the public school system.

So, we all pay for stuff we don't want or perhaps will never use.

(Yes, I am concerned about education, but I am more concerned about health care for my fellow Americans.)

I am a pretty hardcore conservative (fiscally anyway). It kills me when I hear that the "majority" of Americans want this or that. When you are talking about a margin of a few percent either way, I don't really consider that a true majority.

Truth of the matter is, we are looking at more of an even split down the line in terms of what people want. Here is what we should do; tally up the votes of the people that take care of themselves and their kids. That also includes people that are hardworking Americans who lost their jobs due downsizing, poor administrative policy, and whatever else would fall into that reasonable category. It doesn't include career welfare recipients, people who work at Long John Silver's and have 5 kids,

I would probably also discount the votes of the 18 year olds who are attending school on mommy and daddy's nickel. You may be a productive part of the workforce one day, but until then, you need to sit at the kid's table.

Let's tally all of those votes and see what we come up with. And then go with that.

Class dismissed.

There are people on welfare now who drive nice new cars yet people like me who bust there ass get @!$%# on. No more handouts!!!! All they need to do is add new regulations. This bill is going to kill the country faster, we dont have many jobs right now as it is, and who knows when jobs will pick up. healthcare can wait jobs is what is needed before anything, less government is another!!! And each state has there own health insurance plans so these people w/o insurance just need to apply we dont need another government handout/mandate!!!

Your taxes will only go up if your family makes more than one million dollars a year. If that bothers you, tough s$%t greedy!!!

California has been run by loser's for years. Now we are 43 billion in debt. If you want to go broke folks, just look how the liberal dems have handled California. Raising our taxes is their only solution - always!

Hay Green. We are paying for the last administrations unwanted, unneeded war. We are paying for Cheney's big profits to Haliburton. So why not just keep it going in the finest repub maner.

Let's take this a step further. What is the benefit to me of putting my hard earned money into the pockets of the CEO of UHC.

The same reason you ask your customers at work to put their hard earned dollars into YOUR hands.

If you don't like people making profits or the idea of capitalism then go live in the woods and live off the land.

Hey Mike-Cheney made his Money from Bill Clinton, you know, that president that gave Halliburton a NO-BID contract. By the time he was ready to run w/ Bush 2 for Vice President he was no longer a CEO or any person really on their payroll (as Bill Clinton made him rich, not a war in Iraq.) So stop saying things you hear The Daily Show.

Bottom Line on the Health Care issue is this. Yes the Majority of this country wants Health Care reform. But, what most people who only watch MSNBC or Comedy Central to get their news, refuse to realize, is that the Majority of Americans do NOT want this bill! If you think Democrats or Obama really care about you and have no special interest groups in mind when writing this bill, then I suggest you take that chip implanted in your brain out.

Do Republicans have our best interest at heart, NO; I repeat that with a HELL NO! Both parties are trying to either gain control of the entire industry (Democrats) or protecting Insurance Companies over Americans (Republicans.) If our (US Citizens) interests were any politicians’ top priority then they would fix the existing system (which needs only minor tweaks, granted A LOT of minor tweaks, but minor none the less.) If fellow Americans are the best interest in any ones mind don't you think that if they cannot afford health insurance there are other necessities that they need as well. I would think that if you truly cared about their plight you would want them to raise their quality of living and not diminish mine or other responsible persons. That being said Job recovery should be any politicians’ main focus.

Am I cold hearted? No, look at this debate in these terms. You have a parent who can't say no to their child and you have one who always has to be the bad guy, but someone has to for the betterment of that child. In Congress right now you have one party who thinks we can give free medical care to everybody, at a better quality & at the same time at a lower cost. Does anyone believe our Government can do this and sustain it for years to follow? I for one do not, (I do not now nor have I ever worked for an insurance company) Do I like our current system? Yes as a whole, but I am not naive enough to say there is no room for improvement. Do I trust the insurance companies to have my best interest at heart (without regulations?) No, I do not, but I trust this administration less. There has to be at least one parent in Washington who has the balls to say No to all the BS that is involved in this process.

Keep in mind this thought, if a Public Option is what is supposed to bring down cost, because competition keeps companies honest (By the way that is Capitalistic thought, which is true, it does work) then why are they not allowing companies to compete across state lines? There is your competition and that can happen without our government being involved. Common sense dictates that this administration wants to control that entire industry, especially when you factor they own the majority of auto makers, banks, mortgage companies & Wall Street, it seems like a giant power grab.

Polls, I don't trust them, any of them. So to use the polls as an exact measure of what American Citizens want is a flawed theory. However, on the same token if anybody is waiting to see what the majority of Americans want until you make a decision, then you are truly a sheep. You should by all accounts think about it logically and realistically. When I say realistically, look at our current entitlement programs, medical programs, your personal situation & most of all other states (States, not Countries, our government is different from theirs, and should not be used as a base unless you want to change our current form of government as well.) Every other state that has huge taxes & huge entitlement programs are broke or going broke. That's not talking point or a speculation, it's a fact.

This is the last thing I want to mention right now. The worst thing about our health care system (According to the WHO) is our infant mortality rate (That alone has dropped our “Rankings” in their list to 37^th) How is a Public Option going to improve that? Insurance companies are not denying coverage to newborns. As a matter of fact Medicaid is covering expecting mother’s who do not already have insurance. So, I ask again how expanding coverage will solve that problem. The things we rank at the top of the list are; short waiting times, cancer development, & research in general. What do want to sacrifice to appease 9% of the population?

ymere - well said!!

This is totally about control. The libs want to control every aspect of your life and they have convinced far too many people out there that that "we need them" to do so. Whatever happened to personal responsibility, you know, taking care of yourself and "the children you bring into the world." When you have a government that imports poverty, you get the sick and undeducated, a perfect storm for a corrupt government so willing to control them.

well, I don't know how they could actually get on you for it, its written in our constitution that we can overthrow a tyrannical government.

So who's going to tell us who the tyrannical government is? The government? No, its the people decision. Not the politicians,

But hey, its not like any of them pay any attention to the constitution nowadays.

Revolution?????

Republicans are using every fear mongering trick to defeat Health Care!

The majority of the people want this health care with public option!

The Republicans want to be the Majority but they are NOT!!They are the party of NO!!!!!!!

It is the same BS that Hitler's Nazi's and Mussalini's Facist's Party's impossed on their people!

If one was not a fanatical follower a person was percieved an enemy of the State!!!

The Industrialists from Germany and Italy supported World War II

The Industrialists/Republicans of the United States support War.

What the Republicans are afraid of Real Change through a democratic process.

To offer Revolution instead of Change is a sign of a scared Minority!!!

To want Revolution instead of Caring for your fellow citizens is a sign of a selfish person.

The People Know the Tricks of the Republicans!!!!!

Sean

That would be the Declaration of Independence that Mature Grits cut and pasted there. Some of us are very aware of the Constitution and realize that we are allowed to make our representatives aware through the first amendment of the Constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

There is no "overthrow a tyrannical government" amendment or clause in the Constitution and King George III is not really an issue anymore so the Declaration of Independence doesn't really apply. I agree with D H that to call for revolution rather than care for our fellow Americans is a selfish way out.

it is time, and probably a good reason why it is getting harder and harder to get ammunition. They don't need to abolish guns, they just won't sell you the ammunition. A revolution is much too inconvenient - will we still be able to get our Starbucks....LOL.

Grits.....And then what?? If you are talking about overthrowing the government, then you don't have the best interests of the American people at heart. We certainly don't need an uprising of private citizens who will ultimately go down in flames if they try something of a violent nature. We have a democratic process in the USA and that should be used to bring about change. Try to be part of the solution...not part of the problem.

Why should we be subsidizing public/government insurance companies?

Rob Scan - We do now, so that seniors can have affordable health coverage that they would not be able to get after the age of 65 that's why. And when you are 65, you too will be able to get this great coverage (I work with Medicare and seniors daily) and the younger generation will pay for you. That's how it works and it will NEVER go back to the way it was before Medicare when seniors suffered and died for lack of coverage.

You seem to think Medicare is great. Medicare is something we pay for our whole working life without benefits of use until age 65. Then you probably will need a supplemental plan to fill in lacks in coverage. Yet you fail to mention the unfunded liabilities of that very program. Oversight on your part?

The government doesn't subsidize Medicare....we pay for it out of every paycheck, just like insurance premiums. Why can't a public plan for health insurance work the same way?

Not an oversite on my part. Part of the unfunded liability of Medciare are the subsidies to Medicare Advantage, which is private insurance not government run. The government subsidizes these private insurance companies to offer health insurance to seniors (brainchild of the Repubs) and it costs 15-25% more to run Medicare Advantage than it does tradtional Medicare. That is why health reform wants to cut 1/2 a trillion dollars out of these subsidies to private insurers. This will save Medicare into the future for our seniors and for you and I as well. And yes you need a Medigap policy to cover those costs that Medicare does not but in retrospect, these costs are miniscule compared to what younger people in the private market must endure. Medicare has a $135.00 yearly deductible. When was the last time you saw a $135.00 deductible in the private market. Mine was $500.00 this year. The co-pays for Medicare are 80/20 and seniors can see any doctor they want at any time they want. How many indemnity plans are left in the private market? Not many that I know of. It's been 10 years since I've been offered an indemnity plan through my employer. Medicare has a $1300.00 hospital deductible and after that everything is paid at 100% for up to 60 continuous days in the hospital. Again most private insurers don't cover as much. Emergency room visits are covered 100% for Medicare recipients. Now if a senior wants to get a Medigap policy to cover these gaps, they can and if they do, they have the best health insurance out there bar none. And if they enroll during their enrollment period which is 6mos from the time of eligibility, they cannot be denied for pre-existing conditons.

Thanks for the clarification. So why would the AARP support such a rollback of Medicare benefits? Seems like their membership would be up in arms.

Laurie: you seem fixated on Medicare/seniors. This reform reaches WAY beyond that. Besides, seniors won't see any benefits from this anyway, as soon as "end of life" mandates kick in.

Rob Scan - I can't tell you how many seniors call my office pleading with me to get them back into traditional Medicare. The truth be told that these Medicare Advantage plans are HMO's. They work well if a senior is healthy...not sick and not on many medications. Once a senior gets sick and requires hospitalization or needs to see many doctors, the costs start to add up. The seniors are lured in by the low costs for well care but don't see or are not told about the hidden costs when they become sick. AARP sells Medigap as well as Medicare Advantage plans. They will stand to gain in additional Medigap policies what they may or may not lose in Medicare Advantage plans. They will still offer Medicare Advantage plans, they may just be more costly and not as attractive to healthier seniors.

I will not doubt your knowledge of Medicare. It appears you do have a knowledge of the program. What I do question is what similarities of the house's legislation resembles Medicare? We all need reform, but I question the direction Congress is taking.

Thanks, Laurie. I'm not sure that many Seniors understand all of this. Seems that AARP has been playing both sides of the street to their advantage.

Not A Socialist - End of Life requirements are nothing more than a bogey man you and I know that. There are no mandates only optional consultation with you doctor which goes on now but is not reimbursed by the doctor. In this legislation it will be reimbursable. It's quite clear you do not understand the Medicare system and should not speak on an issue you are obviously uninformed about.

They always have Rob....that will not change. My office helps seniors wade through the marketing gimmicks and propoganda and get the best information they can to make informed decisons about their health care needs.

dcisshovelready - Health care reform will not look anything like Medicare. I personally would love to see a Medicare for all program that is subsidized through payroll taxes. I'm sure many people would pay to be able to get into the Medicare system. The current health care legislation will set up private health insurers in some sort of health care exchange. There would be a public option within that exchange but I don't know what the make up of that public option will be yet. I am sure that most of the offering will be either HMO's or PPO plans as indemnity plans such as traditional Medicare are much more costly. For younger healthier people HMOs and PPOs are fine but as a person reaches old age, a traditional Medicare approach offers more security for seniors as to cost controls.

Rob - You are right the government doesn't subsidize traditional Medicare but it does pay private insurers to provide insurance to seniors. That is what the Medicare Advantage scheme is all about. Why don't you check it out? The government is actually paying private companies to offer insurance. It has always been a way for Repubs to bankrupt the traditional Medicare approach and get rid of it once and for all. Do some Google searches and see if I'm not correct.

The bottom line is WE CANNOT AFFORD IT.

We need jobs.

Didnt Bernie Maddoff just go to jail for a medicare like scheme, you know the rob Peter to pay Paul scham.

Popeye,

First, let me say that I am no fan of the Republican party. I like to think that I can make my own informed decisions on most matters and therefore don't need a party line to affiliate myself with, making the Democratic party also not some of my favorite people. Individually, most politicians are greedy crooks, and cheats no matter their party affiliation that helps pull the wool over the average Americans eyes.

That being said, you left out a president somewhere in your foaming rant. You remember... The one who signed the North American Free Trade Agreement, sending tons of American jobs to low wage labor in Mexico, Central and South America. Yeah, your pal Bubba. What party did he belong to again?

Amen Laurie!

Good example. Anyone who has worked in emergency care or law enforcement knows about the freeloader society which we subsidize. I had one come into the office last week looking for a job. I told him we should have some openings in a few weeks and to fill out an application. He replied no thanks.....he just needed to ask for work so he could keep the unemployment checks coming.

Nevertheless you can't let your RIGHTFUL disdain for these types of people overide the need that GOOD, decent, hardworking Americans have. Entitlements are definately a big problem, and we now need to work on better ways to apply NEEDED and good social programs.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

clarke

Then why haven't politicians addressed the entitlement programs that are draining our deficit? One reason and only one reason-votes. I hardly think based on the other programs that if this is proven to be a disaster, anything will change with these idiots(both sides.) I believe they are incapable of writing legislation that will better us as a nation.

Agreed, but thats up to us to change. I agree with healthcare reform, you know that, I agree with the public option, you also know that.

That doesn't mean I'm brainwashed to the system, it means I see the REAL need to enact it.

We need this reform and we all need to keep pushing to address the issues that we can clearly see (this is where our political diversity can be best used)

Not in fighting each other over rigid and entrenched ideologies, but in honestly looking at the parts of our respective viewpoints that can enhance each other and create an organic whole.

The system won't do this by itself, they are always the last one's to really catch on. This must happen at the grassroots level. WE must change. WE must grow. WE must evolve.

IMHO this doesn't address the real culprit- cost. No matter who supplies the insurance, it will still have to cover the escalating cost. If cost aren't contained then premiums will continue to rise. I don't think anyone can deny that, but maybe I am missing something in the legislation that does that.

Axelrod said it the other day...They didnt say the health care cost would come down, just that they wouldnt go up so high. Kinda like the jobs saved thing......

It's such a gargantuan issue, it's going to take alot of time to even analyze. But this much I guarantee you: If WE can't start trying to legitimize each others viewpoints down here in the real world, anything that is done is doomed to eventual failure.

I believe there are things in the legislation that address costs down the road, but I don't know about the short term.

I will be right there with you in the trenches in pushing for fiscally conservative means to accomplish this, right there with you in pushing for free market solutions as well.

clarke

We agree. If these politicians had any adult blood in them, they would quit the BS. They should sit down and say, ok we agree on this and start from there to work on the problems. Its not just the Reps. to blame. the Dems(liberals) think that theirs is the only way. Its absolutely ridiculous. One thing for sure, if you have a partisan bill, one or the other is going to be out of office for a while based soley on whether this works or not.

Frankly, if the republicans had the power base in congress I would more than likely be making the same claim as you.

That is what politics IS to a large extent. If you have the muscle, then you flex it.

It is absolutely not the republicans who are solely to blame either for the causes of the healthcare problems, or for the lack of action to fix it up to this point in time.

The parties are POLARIZED, and it's a wonder ANYTHING ever gets done, and it's NO wonder that it usually doesn't get done the best way.

If you've ever been divorced (I have) you'll definately know how counter productive polarization is in relationships.

We have to stop demonizing each other.

I will contact my reps and make it known that I want them to start working WITH the other party. This is all we can do at that level.

There will always be people that scam the system. Welfare and medicaid are federally funded but state controlled. So any reforms in those areas need to be done at the state levels.

I get so tired of people complaining about welfare/medicaid/food stamps and blaming the federal government. Those programs are controlled by the states. Different states have different rules concerning them. In my state of NC, a person can only be on welfare for two years. During that two years, the state helps with education and training to move them out of welfare into the workplace. That can only be done twice in their lifetime. It may have changed since the economic collapse, I'm not sure. But other states have simular rules.

The funniest part of that doctor's letter is the question that Congress expects him to pay for her healthcare...ummm...he already does, no matter if this healthcare bill passes or not.

DOC; You have not yet learned to not judge. You have Not walked in that woman's (patient's) shoes. You do not know why she is the way she is. What if she had a horrible and abusive life?? I know a young woman now 23 yrs old was raped when she was only 10. She does not function well although she is on medication, and has had therapy for years. She does like being by herself, and will try to manipulate friends or anyone she can to stay with her. I ran a staffing office for light industrial. I hired people who did day labor and struggled to improve their lives and were basically homeless. They had issues... and most tried to improve their lives. But some were alcoholics, some needed admittance to a government detox treatment facility.

Don't Judge and Don't Jump to Conclusions! What goes around comes around. If you judge her, some day you will be judged by someone who like you, who also jumped to conclusions.

brett - Nope, I think Joe Lieberman et al, are sucking up the insurance company money. He's clearly on the GOP side that wants the whole health care issue to go away.

That being said, I have never known a single government entitlement program to give anything more than is absolutely ABSOLUTELY necessary. Chill out.

Jan - While the majority of Americans are paying TWICE not only for their healthcare (or else fined and/or possibly in jail) to ensure the freeloaders society keeps theirs also. How is that Pie in sky?

Lieberman has always been for Lieberman,,not the people of CT,,I'm glad i don't live there any longer. Lieberman would sell his own mother if the insurance company's asked him to. He's always been the insurance co's insurance puppet, getting him millions of dollars for his campaign's. What a shame this piece of crap is allowed to sway back and fourth to which ever way enhances his own well being,,he's a phony.

Jan,

So the new 79.00 for welfare for their cell phones absolutely necessary. 

This was just signed by the President, but I don't see a cell phone as something as absolutely necessary, do you?  Don't believe me go to goggle and search on 'welfare cell phones'.  All kind of links from both side of the fences.

How is this health care bill going to be anything different for these people already living off of society? 

The House bill has a 'hardship exemption', and those who are lower income will get some help. Further, Everyone should participate so costs stay low ... AND.. it would Not be Fair for those who Didn't have insurance who will ultimately end up in the ER. Those costs hospitals incur from the charity health care they provide to those who do not have insurance or cannot afford treatment, are costs which are passed on to the rest of us. Everyone should participate!

Sorry @!$%# head it will take 60 votes. And remember the senate is voting on a bill that is unconstitutional. If you want some thing free go ask your mother.

For most of you democrats want big brother to wipe your asses for you.

Grow up.

God bless Joe Lieberman. He is a true American. Kill it Joe!

Wrong! The bill will pass the Senate even if they have to make some compromise... it will pass.

So why don't you move? Why stay here if the healthcare is so much better somewhere else?

Why should the entire have to "change" for a few people who wouldn't contribute to their own healthcare in the first place? If this crap passes, do you think they're actually going to go out and buy insurance? If so, then why didn't they do it before - when it was actually CHEAPER than the Pelosi plan? Didn't you hear, the public option will cost more than private insurance?! LOL!!!!!

"The facility was old and run down" "dug into his doctor's bag to find the tool"

Yeah, that's just the kind of place I want to be treated in when I get sick! NOT! I would say you were lucky you only had an ear ache.

Ladies, don't be so glib. I'm staying right here in a country I love. My point is that medical care can be dispensed without hospital rooms that cost more than luxury hotel rooms, or a system that requires tons of red tape and bureaucratic nonsense. Doctors charge a fortune for an office visit because their overhead is so high.

I'd support a halt to medical insurance legislation if our government would look past its nose and see what other countries are doing, and figure out an approach to health care that's American, but all-inclusive. What's wrong with that?

That's a strong possibility especially with Lieberman as he tends to go where ever the grass is greener and votes for or against legislation that will ensure his re-election.

Some of the Democrats in the House that voted against the bill may had ulterior motives because some of them were on shaky ground in the coming election. Had they voted yes, it could have been political suicide. The point of this is that many of them (both parties) have more interest in personal and political gains than the issue at hand. This of course isn't fact but just conjecture and opinion. Take it anyway you want to.

Amen to your comment about Joe Lieberman. He's got his own political health in mind, not that of millions of uninsured people. He's also turning into a blowhard, trying to make political hay out of the tragedy in Ft. Hood.

Jerry, Go get a life. We are having our public health Insurance whether you like it or not. Most of the people, I come across these days who whine and complain about our government are retired vets or city workers who get all their money and their health insurance paid for by the government anyway!! You conservative wingnuts are a confused lot. Even a dog won't bite the hand that feeds it!!

its all about free and me isn't it?

Get a job pay for your own. Grow upyour mommy needs to quit wiping your ass

He is a PATRIOT who understands that this obama-care bill does NOTHING about reducing or improving healtcare and is clearly unconstitutional!

He sounds like a good one. He understands you have rights, and he wants to protect them. With reference to abortion Democrats love choice. With relation to health care they are against choice. Double standard? Sounds like the words of Native Americans of the old west. Congress man speaks with forked tongue. What they want is control. We have sold our soul to the devil. In this case congress.

Michele,

Actually the CBO pegged the number of new agencies at 111.

Carolyn, darling...

You should be proud of your congressman because this is total insanity. Have you read the bill ? Was anyone allowed to read the bill ? Concepts and hopes for Utopia are one thing, but trying to ram through a crappy piece of legislation will only harm our country.

If Healthcare Reform is truly important, then it must be done slowly, carefully and wisely so there will be American consensus behind the bill.

This legislation reminds me of a Budweiser Clydesdale about to fart on an open flame.......yes, it will explode ! The explosion will only damage an already weak economy.

Someone should give Obama a knock on his head to wise him up!!!!! Can you say Create new jobs not make handy caps for business How can any one afford anything more today. You are a stupid stupid man.

U know families living in garages with their kids that use to earn 2 incomes now they lost every thing. Get us jobs or Quit. Quit being a fool to pelosi and her gang. Stop letting them pull you around by your nads.

Why don't you give the banks another trillion for their next years bonuses.

Our goal should be to not make our healthcare like Canada, where you pay for it but have no guarantee, you will actually receive any care at all. This bill will take us in that direction. Cost neutral it is not. Private insurance subsidizes Medicare to the tune of 17%. If you take this into account, then you can see the next wave of insureds added to govcare will further deplate private insurance, hence it will collapse. As we all get on the rationing bus, medical research dollars will eventually go away, ditto for new drug research ( too pricey). We will have the healthcare of Havana that all the libs seem to love. What we need from here is more bipartisan opposition to the takeover of our country by these Marxists. This is truly a sad day for America. Who would have thought we would vote our country out of existance?

caulfield...republicans will never support meaningful reform of health care. their plan is a pathetic joke designed to move massive amounts of money from blue states to red ones. if health care is going to be updated, now is the time to get it done. the proposal has changed a lot since the debate started in earnest last spring, and it continues to evolve despite the effort by the GOP to obstruct it with their campaign of lies, such as 'death panels' and all the other hype coming from morons like boehner and the angry old tea baggers.

Yea, it has evolved from 873 BILLION to 1.2 TRILLION and will continue to rise as we set up literally hundreds of government agencies to reap more tax dollars. If it were such a good idea people would be flocking to it instead of just a bunch of fools in the house telling us we could go to jail if we don't "Ante-up". The only LYERS are those telling us it is a good plan and the only ones buying it are brain dead or drunk on liberal kool-aid ( hell, if it is free aid, any liberal wants it!!!!)

Joe Mota is the biggest idiot alive. Doubt if he has ever worked other than welfare or social security disability. Does mentally incompetent qualify?

He's right. If the Republicans want "reform" then they should come forward with a plan to move from a fragmented, inefficient market, based on 50 different sets of state regulations to a national market...with or without government. They haven't.

They have & you won't have a chance to look at it because the Obama Media propaganda machine won't print it. Call one of your Republican representatives for your state. I'm sure they'll be glad to give you a copy.

My solution for healthcare for everyone - get a job and pay for your own healthcare! I do and have always done so. We don't want nor need a government run healthcare system like the broken Canadian healthcare system. We have for too long discouraged the work ethic in America and raised generations of welfare dependent Americans. It is time for a change, real change. Bleeding heart liberal radical socialists do not represent the majority of Americans that are conservative or moderate. Liberals are a small minority and will not be successful in ramming this terrible offense down the throats of the rest of us.