Let's see now.

$500 Billion in cuts to Medicare - that should please the seniors.

$400 Billion in taxes and penalties to young people who don't want to buy insurance - that should make the young people who voted for the Democrats excited.

Higher premiums for the middle class to cover the higher costs of covering "pre-existing conditions" - that should make them happy.

Higher taxes and costs on businesses and investors – that should help job growth.

Collect taxes and penalties for 4-5 years before ANY coverage kicks in - that should make everyone else happy, sort of like paying for a car for 4-5 years before we get to see it.

A "Public Option" that will drive insurance companies out of business because they won't have the taxpayer subsidies to compete, which will lose a million jobs or more,

Lower payments to doctors and hospitals, which will cause many of them to "retire early” or go out of business, which will lead to severe rationing of care – especially with 30 million more “insured”.

Is there any group that the Democrats left out when finding ways to screw up the economy?????

Oh - I almost forgot - They project the National Debt will go up by $1.2 Trillion more, which means it will ACTUALLY go up by about $3 Trillion because of this bill. Obama's own Budget calls for the National Debt to increase to over $23 Trillion in 10 years WITHOUT this bill's cost, but it's extremely optimistic, and will probably be over $30 Trillion, which will put our children and grandchildren hopelessly in debt to foreigners (like China).

I think that covers just about everyone, except perhaps the illegal immigrants, who will get free or subsidized health care at taxpayer expense, but they can't vote (at least for now).

WE CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR'S ELECTIONS TO SHOW OUR “APPRECIATION”.

Of course we'll have to contend with ACORN, who will register a few million extra imaginary voters and illegal immigrants for the next election.

You voted for “Change we can believe in”, and you certainly got it, didn't you.

Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., chairman of the purse string-controlling House Appropriations Committee, He said that just as the federal government is expected to pay for its proposed intervention in the health care sector with new taxes.. New Taxes on each and every American except the 40% who pay no income taxes.. Who are the ones who will benefit the most from this welfare handout..

You forgot that the Senate and Congress exempted themselves first.

Stop the Government takeover of health-care and fix what's broken with the current system.

This has nothing to do with fixing anything, it has to do with controlling everything.

Pay close attention before you graciously give up more of your rights to the government folks.

BTW, we know you put 350 BILLION in a slush fund in the last budget/spending bill that was passed. Is the CBO calculating that in their projections? WHERE IS OUR MONEY ???

It does not effect the welfare sucking scum of this country. It all a free ride.

Everything about this bill will drive up costs...it will not lower premiums nor will it be effective at extending "quality" coverage to uninsured...it will just tax the current system and medical infrastructure. While health care reform is a good idea, this bill is irresponsible.

Ominous !!..

narvick1957 said

Anyone against universal health care is a fool ! UHC is the best thing that can happen to a nation ! No country country with UHC looses 45000 of its citizens but the usa does !

Way cool that means that the mortality rate in france must be .75/1000 people, they must have a life expectancy in the thousands of years! but darn, according to WHO there is a much higher mortality rate than that. Those B!&$@%#sthey must be lying because UHC makes people immortal! Either that or you really meant loosing (as in freeing someone).

This Health Care Bill is going to affect everyone. If you are not paying attention.... it's time to wake-up. ALARMS AND BELLS SHOULD GO OFF ANYTIME THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TAKE CHARGE OF 1/6 OF THE ENTIRE ECONOMY!

That always equates to higher costs, regulated services, and, eventually, higher taxes for everyone.

Seventy-nine percent say it is important for President Barack Obama to include health care reform in addressing the nation's economic crisis.

So regardless of the propoganda from the Neocon right Americans do want the health care system overhauled

Amazing that the results were mixed, but there is a difference from addressing from taking over. Most people do not want this plan, why we continue to disregard that message. Rasmussen 37% approve the rest do not.

Mr. Obama will not rest until he destroys America!

all who feel there will be no change to them should consider that they are going to foot the bill for all the people who do nothing to take care of their health. the obese diabetic smoker with hypertwension and vascular disease, all which are because of over eating, will get care mostly paid for by you. your rates are going to raise drastically simply because the ones who dont care about themselves and expect medical science to take care of everything will have the same rate as you and insurance companies will have to cover the cost some how. also look at all the doctors who will simply stop taking insurance because thewy no longer want to take a reduced fee. you will have to pay up front and file your own insurance claim. by taking billions of dollars from medicare, more doctors will cease accepting medicare because of the decrease in reembursement. so how will this all not affect you. also every one will be "mandated" to have insurance to provide more money for those who dont care for themselves. a round about way to tax you heavily

Much needs fixed with health care, but the government option isn't the answer... more beaurocracy and ineffiency and fleeting money not accounted for. No changes. Congress is here to represent. Regulate, rein in, and soundly control Big Pharma. They are to represent us AND our interests, and this can be done by simply doing their jobs. NOT creating another huge, inefficient government run infrastructure... for the many reasons other posters before me have stated, and because of the decades old formation of the politico-business Congress, not the representation that we're SUPPOSEDLY voting for.

And what's the deal with these "poll numbers"? I'm always out and about, and the consensus I'm hearing is no where close to those.... but, I've probably run into more than 500 people in the past 6 months.

Problem is....This is almost to the point where we can't reverse anything they are doing. So sad - the destruction of America under this president. How's that HOPE and CHANGE working for ya now? Would you change your vote now? Knowing what you know....SO FAR? What's next?? I'm fearful of what's next to be honest.

If the Republicans and independent Joe Lieberman can stop the Public Option from coming to pass, then a lot of the rest of the bill is a good idea. Without Lieberman, who has given his unqualified opposition to the Public Option, the Democrats do not have the 60 votes needed for cloture against a Republican filibuster. He gave them consent to bypass a filibuster to bring the bill to debate, but he won't, and it's quite possible that Lincoln, Landrieu, and Nelson won't vote for cloture against a filibuster of ending debate on this too should a public option still be present. It's difficult to see that passing unless they use the procedural accounting tricks in terms of the "nuclear option" to pass it on a mere majority - but if they do that I think the anger of the American people will be overwhelming in its response.

The Democrats have set themselves up in a losing situation. If they fail to pass something, they will look weak and unable to govern even given their vast majorities. If they pass what they have in front of them right now giving as much as they are to the extremist "progressive" left, the country will boot a massive amount of them out of power, because we as a country didn't turn into a bunch of collectivists just because we elected a lot of Democrats in response to the Republican failures of the Bush years. The Independent and moderate middle has given it's warning shots across the Democrats bow, they are railing at them to change course and come back towards the center. Pelosi and Reid aren't listening - but Obama appears to be. He's still an astute observer, and at least giving lip service to "fiscal responsibility" now though he's done much to damage that since he's taken office and not doing anything of value on the subject. But it's the Congress that has the most to lose, Obama has 2 years to recover if he loses his majority in the House, and possibly the Senate, and it would be good for him in that he won't be fed a plate of leftist junk to sign, he'll be forced to be moderate - a winning proposition. Reid and Pelosi are out of touch clowns though, either self deluded into thinking the country doesn't want their extremism only because it hasn't tried it yet, rather than understanding exactly how dangerous it really is.

The best thing for the Democrats at this point, would be to drop the Public Option, drop the attempt to collectivize the system, pass something including preventing insurance companies from discriminating based on pre-existing conditions and rescission, and call it a victory without putting us on a path towards eventual socialized single payer collectivist health care. Nothing else is going to save them from self destructing their majorities next Nov 2.

The Liberal media will wordsmith their surveys but when it comes down to brass tacks, "Just 38% of voters now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 56% now oppose the plan." But Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, & Obama could careless...They don't care what's in the bill, because It won't effect them...Just US.

Go ahead and try to Spin this AP/MSNBC. Every single person I know is against Government Health Care!!!

Who did they poll ACORN???

Vote them out in 2010!!

Demand Term Limits on Congress now!!!

For all you people that are supporting this so called Health Reform listen to my story.

I employ 5 people with my business. I hear that if I don't provide them with Insurance the Democrats will fine me substantially. What will I do? I will lay off my 5 employees and run my business myself! I'm sure thousands of other businesses will simply do the same!

The larger corporations will simply send their work to Chinia, Mexico, India, Vietnam or some other country to save the Health Care costs.

So bottom line if my employees are supporting this Health Care bill you not only will not have Health Insurance you will no longer have a job!!!

Get a gripe and come to your senses people; nothing is free in life, want Health Insurance? Then work hard and buy it yourself!!

Demand Term Limits on Congress now!!!

A 500 person survey---please. Who can not say they see fraud and waste in medicine? How about the overcharges that insurance companies/Pharma chage to medicare and medicaid...

How about all the unnecessary /redundant tests run. How about paying $12 dollars for aspirin or $8 dollars for a box of kleenex! Come on people- the person in between you and your doctor is Big HC INSURANCE COMPANIES...and the death panel comes from the insurance/HMO/s who deny or delay coverage to the sick! 45,000 die every year....How many are canceled because of pre existing conditions! How much do you pay if not canceled...premiums up 300% since the 1990's profits up for HIC 300%..

The Corps and Repubs are running a game on the American publkic...Medicare has problems because Congress has dipped it's hand in the coffers - just like SS....Do not believe the LIES....If you listen then the joke is on you and your loved ones!

You forgot to mention that the current bill allows for coverage of ILLEGAL ALIENS.

BTW folks, Rasmussen has recorded Obama's approval rating at its lowest EVER ( -15 )

I live in a town that has two doctors and othe medical facilities within 30 miles. If everyone in town has health insurance how is their access to medical care going to improve?

This is not a health care bill, it is a health insurance bill. Once again, our representatives in Washington got it wrong.

My only consolation is that I live in Nevada so I can vote against Harry Reid.

Joe F Las Vegas,

Not like the Far left Moron way that you Liberals want it...We want Heath Care reform but not in the context of the Welfare system you Libs have built!!!!!

America isn't 'conflicted' with the health care bill, as the article states. Quite frankly, they are scared to death that once the government touches healthcare it will be screwed up for good!

Straight talk with the Weiner...NOT!!!! He must have gotten his fanny beaten on a daily basis with a name like that!!!!!!

Health care reform would be tort reform and interstate competition. That would be a good thing, and would lower heath care and insurance costs for everyone. This is a socialist take over of 1/6 of the American economy with no reform at all! This would cost everyone in America more than they pay now. From the laziest welfare collector, to Warren Buffet, we will all pay for this. Right now no one is denied car at the emergency room, but that's not good enough because the O-bots don't control that. They admitted yesterday that this system will be 81% as efficient as the current one. That's OK! That's BULL! rationing will happen with this Marxist plan, weather it is by design or unintended. People will wait weeks or months for surgeries that now happen within days. Needed medical procedures will wait for the next fiscal year for lack of funds. This is already happening in England and Canada. If we are going to model our health care system after someone Else's, why use one that has been proven unsustainable?

The repukes are such vile greedy beasts. If they really believed in Jesus, they would want to help the poor, not demonize them. They can go burn in Hell for their sick hypocrisy. These are the same scum bags who bankrupt people with financial scams, deny them health care by finding loop holes, and then their teenage kids go out and "burn bums" for fun on the weekend. They are Satan's children.

Which propaganda minister wrote this bill? Goebels or Goering? No where does it mention that the majority of the US public do not want a goverment option, trigger, plan, or coop. This article stinks, it is incomplete, it either presents a biased push type of poll or it misrepresents the poll inorder to support a preconclusion. Sounds like global warming tactics to me.

Un-Common Common Sense posted:

For all you people that are supporting this so called Health Reform listen to my story.

I employ 5 people with my business. I hear that if I don't provide them with Insurance the Democrats will fine me substantially. What will I do? I will lay off my 5 employees and run my business myself! I'm sure thousands of other businesses will simply do the same!

You must take everyone as fools.

Depends on the size of your business, but lets say you must provide health care... if you don't provide it, your employees would have to pay out of pocket (and probably do today), so the natural thing to do would be to balance the cost between with their current "other" compensation like wages/salary and bonuses. If NO ONE gets them insurance then you and I are already paying for their care in raised hospital fees and in increased insurance costs already, so your "true cost" is still nothing. The real impact is to stop the freeloading off of emergency rooms by assuring that everyone does the responsible thing and gets insured.

I have a small business and have already figured out that it won't alter my business plan one bit.

And if you really do own a small business, then you would not do what you say here, and you know it... its a slight business policy adjustment that you're making a mountain out of... way too much drama.

ROY WILSON-336103

Roy, you had so much to debate in your post that I'm only addressing the first few claims you made...

$500 Billion in cuts to Medicare - that should please the seniors.

The verbiage in the bill forbids removing Medicare benefits. Funding is assumed by cutting Medicare "waste" that even McCain attested to. If the funds don't materialize another funding source must be found to satisfy current congressional funding requirements.

$400 Billion in taxes and penalties to young people who don't want to buy insurance - that should make the young people who voted for the Democrats excited.

We all feel bad that young people might be willing to gamble with our money, but that's just not okay with me like it must be for you. Everyone needs to carry health insurance for their own protection, but at least so as to not be a leach on the rest of us. My "kids" are thrilled at the prospect of having affordable insurance since they were having trouble getting insurance right out of college due to their asthma.

Higher premiums for the middle class to cover the higher costs of covering "pre-existing conditions" - that should make them happy.

The premiums are out of reach and going higher by double digits every year already, so I'm all for a bill that gets everyone insured, eliminates the idiocy of pre-existing conditions provisions, and finally attempts to get control of health care costs. BTW, why don't they care about pre-existing conditions when you join a company that provides health care to its employees? Because even the lower corporate rates have enough "greed" in them to be profitable "on average".

Higher taxes and costs on businesses and investors – that should help job growth.

Total BS. I already covered the fact that its "business plan neutral" in post 1.31. The only thing slowing job growth right now is consumer and small business fear driven by the false scare tactics.

Collect taxes and penalties for 4-5 years before ANY coverage kicks in - that should make everyone else happy, sort of like paying for a car for 4-5 years before we get to see it.

It is a bit of a "trick"... but the reason is a lot simpler and less devious than you make it out to be. The initial revenue needs to be low because of the recession, and since start-up costs for any venture is the peak business expense, it takes a few years to fund the start-up AND to keep the operation in the black from that day forward.

A "Public Option" that will drive insurance companies out of business because they won't have the taxpayer subsidies to compete, which will lose a million jobs or more,

More hype. The bill states specifically that the public option is to be self funded and will be run by a non-government outfit (probably a not-for-profit, cost-plus like Walmart already does so gracefully)... it will be run with the monies it collects in premiums from its insured. The only subsidies will be to the poor who may then purchase insurance from private or public insurers. The CBO estimates that the public option will only serve about 2% of the population. The only thing the insurance companies have to fear is if they offer less of a "value" than the public option insurer... and given the right's lack of confidence in anything government run, this shouldn't ever be the case, right?

Lower payments to doctors and hospitals, which will cause many of them to "retire early” or go out of business, which will lead to severe rationing of care – especially with 30 million more “insured”.

Lower rates but paid more often is good business for anyone. This claim has been rebuffed in several fact check sites. The insurance companies drive lower rates already for corporate clients and the providers charge higher rates to private citizens (I bet NO ONE really knows what the true costs are right now)... haven't you read a hospital bill and the resulting "negotiated" cost to the insurance company?

And last, but not least, the health care bill is to be deficit neutral... it is to cost some amount ($1T?) to be determined, but it is also to be self funding. This IS a touchy subject, but directionally the plan is to reinstate some tax structures that used to exist on the "rich" and some other sources... again, these will probably change during debate. We all need to keep an eye on these sources, but. again, the bill is to be deficit neutral... No impact to the deficit.

And we're all just as concerned about the deficit as you are, but some of realize that none-action on health care also has an impact on costs and the deficit... much more than "neutral"...

You want deficit issues? There are only 2. The wars and the recession... they affect the deficit many times more than a health bill ever could... but we knew that, didn't we Roy.

Actually, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office this will Reduce the deficit.

The Democratic bills would require all Americans to carry health insurance, with government help to make premiums more affordable.

Without a public option this part amounts to a government subsidy of the insurance companies which the politicians that are in the pocket of the insurance companies would love. (mostly Republicans) We must have a public option. None of the figures seem to take into account the money we would save if the insurance companies had to compete with a public option and might have to lower their exhorbant rates and cut salaries to less than $100 million dollars a year. Don't believe the insurance company propaganda on TV!

Think, thanks for the fascist rant, I needed a good laugh. First the majority want health care reform, but the majority don't want this health care bill because it is not health care reform at all. Instead it is a socialist takeover and major tax bill.

Obama's numbers continue to fall because more and more people are waking up to the fact that he will not affect the "other guy" because we are all the "other guy". Now that the truth is coming out about what all of this will really cost and the fact that we'll all pay through the nose we will see a sea change next election. Till then, have fun with your psychotic delusions.

Thinkbit... once you're sober, read my post above. Also, think... you're playing into the Red vs. Blue game. See where there are no differences in jobs, everyday life in regards to career politicians and big money; then see the divisive difference created in regards to the poor and the middle class. Then, notice this bill is nothing but extended coverage to all, no reforms, regulations, controls, or anything else... including how to pay for it. Consider the entity that you would trust to do "the right thing". Don't buy media talking points; career politicians love the fight of Left vs. Right; it distracts us all from the real issues...

Jobs, economy, sound controls, regulations, and some degree of YES; protectionism for the American way of life. Don't buy into it, and fall to their level of expectation, continuing the politico-for-profit machine. There's a difference between enacting legislation that IS the will of the People and PRETENDING to listen while furthering your own agenda.... both parties guilty.

Thinkbit is just having a bad morning, after Zero, I mean -15 is tanking in the polls. The american people, and some democrats have finally caught on to where this administration is driving the country, and they do not like the looks of where it is going.

Plus that, Thinkbit needs to quit being so negative about himself.

And how many of the 500 hundred can read, and of them how many have read the bill?

They all worked for A.C.O.R.N.

Those crazy high and kool-aid drunk libbies.

Trying to destroy the working stiffs again.

Hey Tyler,

If you are gonna start fact checking posts, your gonna be pretty busy! LOL

Miller is so right...Obama-san said let there be health care, and Nancy/Harry jumped. Now we have a monster instead of true reform.

How much $$$ was added in order to get the lawmakers on board?

How much could be saved if we just controlled fraud, waste & abuse?

The government health care does work, needs some improvement, but works. But Obama-san said HE wanted change...some is needed, but not at the cost that is coming over the hill!!!

So now we screw the folks who have paid into the system all their working lives to make up for the greedy buggers who ruined the system.

I don't think that is the change people voted for, but that's politics, now bend over, grab your ankles and smile. Or scream bloody murder at your senator.

Well you certainly cut right to the chase! Yeap! That's what this...SOCIALISM.

Nancy today said deficit be damned.. We dont care how much money we spend.. we will spend it till we get it right..

Yes, much more needs to be said, you clown. Let's discuss the big elephant in the room. Here are some facts: Asians live longer than caucasians, and caucasians live longer than negroids. Asians in the US live longer than asians in most other predominantly asian countries; caucasians in the US live longer than caucasians in most other predominantly caucasoid countries; and negroids in the US live longer than negroids in predominantly negroid countries.

Have you ever wondered why Ft. Lee, NJ and the state of Hawaii have the highest life expectancies in the US?

Yes much more has to be said , the way the statistic are compiled, who compiled the statistics and let's look at the other variables like the definition of life birth vs miscarriage. Let's also look at the 5 year survival rates for cancer )breast / prostate) Some where a long the line the two do not correlate , so like everything a deeper look is warranted.

Ruby - I'm sure all those per capita numbers have some sort of meaning. You know what - being self-employed I pay for my own healthcare to the tune of about 12K a year. Reading the CBO analysis it is now going to cost me about 14K if the bill gets passed. Reform has to be the scariest word in the US it never ever saves money!

You are correct most Americans want healthcare reform. The reform being making health insurance affordable not more expensive. On top of all this the CBO estimate is about 1/3 low for cost in 10 years. Where is the moeny for this going to come from? Take a wild guess.

Rubytuesday57,

You need to do your homework...When all country's start to use the same criteria to track infant mortality, and life expectancy you come and talk to me. There is not a set criteria in which all world body go by the same standards...You are comparing apples and oranges...The titles like infant mortality rate and life expectancy are the same but that's where it ends!!!!

Logical retorts will not be allowed in this discussion. Please drink your koolaid and repeat after me. "Obamacare is good for you" and "resistance is futile!"

Rubytuesday57,

Part II

Infant mortality rates:

“For example, very premature births are more likely to be included in birth and mortality statistics in the United States than in several other industrialized countries that have lower infant mortality rates.”“Low birth weight is the primary risk factor for infant mortality and most of the decline in neonatal mortality (deaths of infants less than 28 days old) in the United States since 1970 can be attributed to increased rates of survival among low-birth weight newborns. Indeed, comparisons with countries for which data are available suggest that low birth weight newborns have better chances of survival in the United States than elsewhere. The U.S. infant mortality problem arises primarily because of its birth weight distribution; relatively more infants are born at low birth weight in the United States than in most other industrialized countries”

Life expectancy rates:

“This low ranking in life expectancy is often pointed to as being the result of the deficiencies of the health care system in the U.S. The problem with this thinking however is that it does not account for the fact that the U.S. has a disproportionate number of individuals who die as the result of fatal injuries compared to the other wealthy nations of the world. This does not reflect upon the quality of health care in the U.S., in that these events almost universally occur independently of the condition of health of the individuals who die as a result of these factors”

Health insurance isn't going to fix health care. The health care system needs some corrective measures but giving everyone a ticket to Disneyland doesn't guarantee that they will get to ride before the park closes. What we need is more health care professionals and a multi-level approach like the military. Medics see everyone and refer the ones who need more than routine care to the doctors. We can train and license PAs and NPs faster than we can doctors and at a lower cost per patient.

By the way, the promise of healthcare for all has turned out to be healthcare for about 95%.

The replies to this post just go to prove that most of the people posting here are just right wingers who don't bother to let facts get in the way of their ideological rantings. Whatever the subject, they just rant about socialism, hate Obama, government takeovers, etc. same cr-p every day.

The replies to this post just go to prove that most of the people posting here are just right wingers who don't bother to let facts get in the way of their ideological rantings

Finally give the lefties some facts and they don't try to refute them, they actually run away and say they don't exist. Nice.

But is there something wrong with not liking socialism or government takeovers of private industries? Both ideas run contrary to what our country was founded on and the systems we work under. Is it wrong to oppose things we think are harmful, or are you just being a little bitsy bit intolerant and ignorant today?

LindaAZ ~ I think the dirty little bomb you through at right wingers applies to you also. It is a fact that the criteria used for reporting health data is not uniformly standard. It is true that is it like comparing apples and oranges. Therefore, it would be safe to say that your post "just go to prove that most of the people posting here are just left wingers who don't bother to let facts get in the way of their ideological rantings". See LindaAZ, the dirty little bomb gets thrown both ways and actually landed on your door step. You really need to do a little fact checking before you pull the pin.

Wow, scary isn't it!

I don't understand why people are still listening and trusting Obama? What has he done except talk big and screw-up. This health care package makes no sense. It's never going to work. I am absolutely floored that this country can't see what's really going on here? How dense could Americans be?

ObamaNation Has them Hip "MO" tized !!!!!! With his Liberal Kool-aid!!!!!

It makes no difference. They are going to pass this bill regardless of the cost. Senator Bennett of Colorado didn't miss a beat when asked if he would vote for this bill even if it meant losing re-election next year. He flatly stated "yes".

There's something more to this than meets the eye. They are willing to throw themselves under the bus to get this passed. What are we missing? Don't tell me that they actually care about us, we know better.

The only conclusion I can come up with is this is part of a larger agenda. Another piece of the Clower-Piven strategy at work.

Obama did not write either of the Bills --This is your congress guaranteeing their job...at your expense--Msvickyb... How dense can you be..The numbers on most reports are from WHO-[World Health Org]-independent and not from the USA. We are 37th in healthcare outcomes.. M&M is thru the roof and our longevity is in the toilet!

A 500 person poll in what zipcode at what hour of the day..who wrote the push poll questions..Quit watching Fatty Hannty and limpbow..and The proven liars on Fox.

Reagan-540838

Obama did not write either of the Bills --This is your congress guaranteeing their job...at your expense--Msvickyb... How dense can you be..The numbers on most reports are from WHO-[World Health Org]-independent and not from the USA. We are 37th in healthcare outcomes.. M&M is thru the roof and our longevity is in the toilet!

Its peen proven time and time again that the WHO reports are incorrect.

It has been stated from the WHO that the numbers are wrong and there are many errors in the data collection

It has been proven that the WHO uses the numbers given to them by the countries and didnt do their own investagitions, and all countries do not use the same reporting methods..

SO with all that being said,

The WHO numbers you quoted are about meaningful as a bag of flaming poo on your doorstep.

RubyT57--that is a flat out lie...the med schools do not limit the number of physicians.. there are few in this country that come out of undergraduate schools qualified.. speaking as a retired GP and the mother of a surgical oncologist- female!

Do not spread more lies to confuse the point! Enough misinformation already Lies repeated ad nauseum do not make them true!

Rubytuesday57,

Go to Canada!!!!!

I absolutely ageee. Having more health care practisioners would create real competition. The next time you hear a doctor complaining about malpractice insurance, etc. drive by their house and see how they live. I believe there are provisions, at least in the house bill, to provide financial help to health care students to address the shortage of providers.

Riiiight. I'm sure having computerized systems will drop the high cost of healthcare. Reason why Germany and Switzerland have 5% adminsteration costs is because they have a single payer system and not a web of mess called insurance companies. Ask any doctor how long it takes them to fill out reinbursement claims to mulitiple insurance companies.

Reasons for high cost of healthcare is simple.

*Pharmacuetical companies overcharging medications. Most of their new discoveries came from tax-payer funded research.

*Doctors using defensive medicine. Ordering unnecessary treatments and testings to protect themselves against malpractice.

*Insurance companies will continue to have very high administrative costs. Have enough clout to tell doctors what they could or could not prescribe or treat. And if this bill passes, what stops them from just raising the premiums high enough that the more sicker patients end up canceling it and moving to the public option?

*Americans that continue to use the ER for every non-lifethreatening illnesses. Most expensive treatment options, instead of being patient and go to a clinic where its cheaper.

*Americans who continue to live a unhealthy and sedative lifestyle.

*Doctors who are continue to be influenced by pharmaceutical companies into using more brand-name (more expensive) drugs than the generics.

*Drug commericals that greatly influences Americans into demanding brand-name drugs (more expensive) over generics.

This list can go on forever. There is computerized system at my hospital but it the costs sure hasn't dropped. Costs of healthcare cannot be lowered unless these reasons above is not fixed.

Rubytuesday57,

Go to Canada!!!

Go to Canada!!!

No...Really Go to Canada!!!

But the report also emphasizes the inefficiencies of the American health care system.

Can you honestly trust any "report" published by the UN or any of its branches? The only thing that unites the "United" Nations is the fact that they don't like the US.

Actually you have it all wrong! Imagine what the USPS would charge if there was no UPS or FEDEX!

I think we agree that competition is good.

Then why not let all the insurance companies compete in all states? If competition is good and all.

Don, a lot of what you say is dead-on right. I don't think America is ready for health care reform because it would entail a major restructuring of an industry with too many vested interests. There are just too many people and groups who profit from the existing system (at the expense of the American public), who will say or do pretty much anything to retain the status quo, regardless of it affects the future of our nation.

Exactly why single-payer system is the only true health care reform. As long as the profit motive is driving health care, there will never be any reform and the health of the people won't matter. The existing bill does not go far enough. It is basically lip service to reform, and another gift to the health insurance lobby, which has the gov. in a death grip. Between the health ins. co.s, banks, and Wall Street firms running the country--welcome to the Corporate State or Gilded Age II. Even the liberals can't break its grip. We are well on our way to becoming a third world country as far as the former middle class and average working people are concerned. The top 1% has 90% of all resources, and nothing, not even health care, is going to trickle down to the rest of us. Maybe if the Dems could-GASP!-end the outrageous tax cuts to the billionaires there might be a lot more money to work with...

And those are the ones who aren't employed and would just like the government to take care of them. They don't care how or what the government does to take care of them, they just want the entitlement. Lazy!

Julie, no doubt there are many of those in the mix but I suspect that most fall into the categories of unemployed (lot's of them around now), employed but poor, with no company paid heathcare and too little income to afford the high-priced private plan, those with existing conditions who can't get health care under any circumstances, and most tragically, young children whose parents for whatever reason have no health care.

It's easy to say the 20-40m Americans without healthcare are lazy, good-for-nothings. I just don't think that those people comprise the majority of those without insurance. Keep in mind that without company benefits, a family health insurance policy costs about $10-12k a year: that's a huge amount of money for a family making $40-60k a year.

I understand that...alot of people uninsured are out of work. Why? Ask the Obama administration about that....jobs promised..bills passed...no help. But I know there are at least 1/2 of that 20-40 million that are just plain lazy and would rather the government just take care of them!!

So what's in the bill? Well....they are going to take from MEDICARE....from the seniors...and give it to MEDICAID!! WHY? So the lazy can just milk us tax payers even more. AND THAT IS WHAT REALLY MAKES ME MAD!!

Julie, I don't agree with your blaming Obama for so many people being unemployed (this recession had it's genesis in early 2008 and the government can't fix it overnight). But that aside, I don't think that at least half of these people are lazy bums: how do you arrive at that estimate?

I would agree though that if you think it's all going to lazy bums, there's no argument that will convince you otherwise. But what do you think of the other 50%? Do we leave them without insurance just because the other 50% will get something they don't deserve? How about people who have lost jobs or people with pre-existing conditions who can't buy insurance at any price. Do we say, we won't give you anything, even a public option, because somebody undeserving might benefit as well? Doesn't that happen in all aspects of government?

I know that the right wing argues that seniors will get less in benefits but the left wing says they 'll get the same at a reduced cost. I don't know which is more accurate but I do know that seniors vote more consistently that younger adults. As a practical matter, politicans know that their seats would be history if seniors lost benefits. So I'd say, as a survival matter for the politicians, that wouldn't happen.

Julie, you have no idea what you are talking about! Why are you so worried about so called "lazy people"? Until you have walked a mile in their shoes you are just blowing throwing around ignorant comments. AND THAT IS WHAT REALLY MAKES ME MAD!! The lazy half you are talking about would be the mentally ill, the physically handicapped, the blind or uneducated, due to no fault of their own. After that you will have some who are incapable of working any job due to many factors. I was taught you take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. Or did you miss that Sunday School lesson? Obviously your parents didn't teach it to you. I know you like the neatness of pigeonholing everyone but that is insane, can't be done unfortunately. So your answer would be to pick certain "types" to take care of and the rest can go blow, is that it? I would not want you in charge of anything for me. By the way I worked 35 years and was laid off in January and I cannot afford healthcare of any kind and too young for Medicare so I guess that makes me lazy too.

DownTownJulieBrown: I'll tell you why at least one American is out of work.... the fact that I can't buy health insurance in the USA (pre-existing). I moved my business overseas so I could buy health insurance. And then hired a local who of course is not American.

It's sad but true that politics and ideology blind both sides to practical solutions. And it's the politicians and talk-show hosts that deliberately spread disinformation for their own personal interests.

Being in favor of a public option, I can point out disinformation spread from the right, such as "death panels" and "euthanasia". I'm sure there's just as much coming from the left that I don't see.

It's just sad that people can't discuss the issues without bringing in politics and ideology.

Let's talk about the mis-information being spread from the left, their butts are shinning. Obama did LIE and so did Reid and all the others who are hungry for power. If you think it is okay to buy a vote for 300 million, you need to move to a banana republic now, don't wait until Obama completes the transition of this country into one.

Bob, I agree entirely that the left misinforms as much as the right. We are after all talking about politicians who have a personal agenda in addition to their stated public agenda.

What I'm saying is that misinformation makes it almost impossible for the public to make an informed decision.

Do you agree with whomever that Congressman was who said Obama lied about illegals ? My understanding is that illegals are not covered, but are able to buy into the plan (which should be a good idea, no?)

This bill is an atrocity. We will NEVER have affordable health care insurance for ALL Americans until we actually have affordable health care. There will NEVER be affordable health care until the politicians are stopped from pandering to special interests and are forced to accept the exact same health care they are attempting to mandate, and that goes for the very top on down.

When you are taxed to death to pay for it, you will no doubt CHANGE your mind. Is this the CHANGE you were looking for? I doubt it...you liberal left wingers will be screaming your heads off when ALL the taxes are in place and YOUR paycheck is diminished to nothing!! Good Luck with that. But we know how you people will take care of that....You'll just ask the government for more handouts. That's the liberals agenda. Ask NOT what you can do for your country...YOU ask what can my government do for me entitlement wise.

The party of KNOW< KNOW is trying to save a government take over of 1/6th of the economy and spare it from the typical liberal disaster. Why don't you name all the wonderful things they have accomplished in the last 10 months. They do not need one republican vote to pass it and it will be their death panel in the next elections.

Steven, you are right on!!!!

Julie and Bob, in true RePuke fashion keep dreaming. Pres. Obama was elected to do exactly what he is doing, making a change in current policies of doting on the wealthy and keeping the poor out of the loop. I support him 100% and yes he will be reelected by a bigger margin than last time.

Adams I can tell by Obama sinking poll numbers

48% job aproval

Obama was elected because he was celebrity and cool nothing more.

Obamas act really starting to wear thin on people

thanks for the shout out. Chargerguy......

Sorry Adams you are way OUT OF LINE. I'm NOT one of those repukes as you democrats like to call names about. I'm an registered independent. I can swing either way...depending on who the candidate is and what they stand for. I voted against Steny Hoyer - yes I did - but how can you beat someone who takes millions in lobbyists funds - YOU democrats are very afraid of us independents as well as you should be. Because right now..it looks like the independents in this country are starting to NOT believe in the Obama CHANGE that he promised and moving back to the right. YOU democrats better be very afraid of the indpendent voter. Your winning another elections clearly depends on US!!

The jobs of Senator and Congressmen was never meant by our founding father's to be a career. You are right but only we can change the current situation. About half of the uninformed idiots who vote have no idea how the government works or what those they vote for believe or want. It is up to those who care about this country to do everything they can to change the current system.

Julie, get a passport. It is very easy to move.

DownTownJulieBrown

Why is it everyone says we need term limits, but then go out and vote the same guy in again? We have term limits, but it means you must think for yourself, you don't need a lawyer, just vote for a new face in your next primary, and then vote for a new face in the election that follows. Why do people think we have these elections all the time.

I didn't vote for the same guy over and over. I can't stand Steny Hoyer. I voted for his opponent. But you have these politicians who are massively funded...they are going to win every time. That's why we need TERM LIMITS. And we also need campaign funding stopped by lobbyists and this big $$$. We need a mandate on campaign funds...and soon. spending millions and millions on an election...is merely buying it. We saw that with Obama. Bought and paid for by Andy Stern and SEIU.

And Adams..if you don't like what I say..do me a huge favor and yourself...don't read it. This is America and I still have my 1st ammendment rights. Until Obama takes that away too!!

but guess who votes on the proposal and they're certainly not going to give up their cushy jobs

Adams122: Actually it is not easy to move. I left America to be able to buy health insurance. Getting legal residency somewhere was not easy (think of all the illegals in the US).

For 3 years, I had to move to a new country every 90 days to stay legal with my "tourist" status. Renting apartments for only 90 days is not cheap. Now I am legal here (well I was never illegal, but now I can stay as long as I like), and I have health insurance.