vmoptions - I am not a republican and find this legistlation to be a disgrace. I do not see how this will help the average person. Furthermore, I don't give a rats-a$# about the republicans campaign contributors and what taxes they have to pay. I am concerned as to how this legistlation was passed and the fact that no Senator fully understands the bill nor does any liberal media outlet bother to break down the so-called coverage and how this bill will eliviate hardships. Think about that.

Lets not forget the rest of the country that is worried about the increase in cost of this fiasco but then you also ignore the fact of all the money Pharmaceuticals and Insurance will make off this and all they have paid to the Democrats to push this garbage fake "reform" through- as for defining Obama oh yeah he is already defined as talk ing out of one side of his mouth while lying out of the other at same time- believe the American Indians had a name for him - "talk with forked tongue " It is a damn shame as you say that some people believe everything the left says is gospel and ignore possible truths that prove they are not and they call the Right religious fanatics

Republicans took to the floor to lambaste the bill as a budget-busting government takeover. Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, contended that it "just might wind up being the most widely hated legislation of the decade."

It already is the most widely hated, and it is going to get worse.

I just saw Chris Dodd on the CBS Morning Show. When asked the question of why they are doing this when so many Americans are against it he claimed that we were not receiving correct information and as soon as the bill kicks in and older children would be covered and premiums go down, it would become popular. Does he realize that everyone is paying attention and doing research due to the scope of this bill? No where has anyone shown that premiums will go down, to the contrary, the premiums will increase exponentially. I am faced with losing my Employer-sponsored health care (projected increase due to Senate bill, and using as an example a policy that is less coverage than the high deductilbe policy we have now, +122%) I will have to purchase it as an individual. My costs will increase exponentially as well. Thanks for nothing!

And everyone quit whining about the Republicans, it is equal to whining about GW Bush, get over yourselves!

We said NO...! and they passed it anyways!

vmoptions, have you even taken the time to read this so called health care reform? If you haven't I suggest you do. This is nothing but a self serving piece of crap that we and our children will pay for many, many years to come. This legislation does nothing more than give more power to the government and will lead to government run health care in this Country. God help us all when that day occurs.

The Democrats either have no idea, or are ok with the sacrifice they are about to make on behalf of this legislation because of the hornets nest they're stirred up.

The intensity of the opposition to this is going largely unreported in liberally biased media like MSNBC & CNN, and the progressive bastions like The Huffington Post. But it's there, and it's seething, and the damage the Democrats are doing to their national brand is going to be difficult to repair. The Republicans aren't doing a whole lot to inspire confidence in their ability to lead and might not win the mid-term elections of their own power, but the Democrats seem to be doing their damnedest to make sure everyone but the far left turns away from them.

If the Democrats aren't scared yet by the warning signs, about the people who really matter in terms of winning elections, which are that broadly moderate and independent socially liberal but fiscally conservative middle 1/3 of the electorate, then they aren't paying attention or they're in denial.

Independents are fleeing the Democrats and that's now going to be a very difficult trend to reverse, and it's going to cause them a shellacking next November if they don't pull off a miracle of economic recovery before then.

Some health care reform was necessary, there are some things that should have been pushed and fought for. But the public is now uneasy, and it's getting worse. The public is going to judge this piece of legislation based on whether it reduces the cost of health care, and it's going to have a difficult time doing that with the individual mandate in place. We're about to right shift the demand curve for health insurance, because if you don't get it you're going to have to pay a fine for service you aren't getting, or in all likelyhood go to jail. Much like here in Massachusetts, it's going to have the effect of increasing the cost of medical care and health insurance. Now, liberals wanted to try and address this with a public option, as a means of forcing insurance companies to charge lower rates to "compete" with the government as a means to get us into a collectivist single payer system. But with the death of that, thankfully, in the Senate, there's still nothing to address the broken structure that still in place, and we're about to explode that inefficient cost problem.

Ideas to get us to a more efficient and competitive private system which would have lowered costs for consumers coming from the Republican side have been ignored and rejected by Progressives in their quest to collectivize the system. Rather than expose Drug Manufacturers to international competition and global prices, the Democrats have cut them sweetheart deals to not oppose their legislation. Rather than include meaningful Tort Reform to help cut down on the costs defensive medicine practiced by Doctors to help cover their asses, that flows out into the pockets of lawyers, the Democrats have avoided the issue in order to not annoy the Trial Lawyers Association, a major Democratic contributor. Rather than include meaningful reform to bring private industry competition up to where it should be in terms of competition across State lines, the Democrats have opted to do nothing in order to continue trying to blame Republicans for being nothing but obstructionists.

It's sad, but this bill is going to be a painful experience for many. Yes, some new people will be insured who don't currently have insurance, as a new welfare/entitlement program, it's going to do something, of course at your expense and with your tax dollars. But it's going to fail miserably at one of the major goals of health care reform, mainly driving down prices that affect everyone. Much like here in Massachusetts, remember this is the pilot program the Democrats have been touting and largely following, prices are going to go up, in some cases drastically. People who could previously afford insurance will be priced out of the market and forced to pay fines for no service at all when they previously had it, as has happened here.

And much like here in Massachusetts, we still won't have everyone covered, we're just going to shift around who's able to get it. The rich will still have access to better and higher quality care, they can always travel and pay their own way if they really need to. But the middle class is going to be saddled with paying more for the same or less care, and those near the bottom of the economic ladder, those struggling just to get by but just barely managing... well they're about to be out of luck, because the Democrats have decided that people who have less than them *deserve* that medical coverage more than they do, no matter how hard they've been working to make do for themselves, and just in case that sucker punch to the gut wasn't enough, they're going to make them eat dirt and pay fines for care they can't afford any more.

The bleeding hearts are great at dragging out sob stories to support their cause, but the reality they always fail to tell you is whether or not they get their way, someone always gets hurt.

LETS GET this in the Supreme Court.. The Government cannot tell you to buy crap.. They cannot force you to buy anything.. The States are to be treated equally not one state or one group of people get a better deal than the othe TAXPAYERS.. GET This in the Court.. This does not fit in the Commerce Clause or the General Welfare Clause.. The passed with BRIBES.. Get this into the COURTS... DEMOCRATS HAVE DECLARED Healthcare a new RIGHT UNDER THE CONSITITUTION..

My biggest hope is that because of the vote on this bill people will finnally wake up and vote these so called "honest" politicans out of office and force term limits on any newly elected...this country is being wiped outby those in power at our expense....yet we the tax payers have no say what so ever...

Someone PLEASE stop this run-away train! The voters do not want this disasterous government takeover but our "representatives" ignore us. Vote them all out in 2010 and 2012.

Remember NO INCUMBENTS !!! Make This Your Pledge.

They should all be thrown in jail!!!!!

Obamacare will now become similar to Hooverville. Same crap different year. Or FDR's NEW DEAL and the beginning of the welfare state. People who always want handouts THINK they will be better off. Versus NO healthcare at all - maybe so. But they other 90% of the country will be much WORSE off.

Perhaps legislation forcing those people to get an education so they could get better jobs and BUY insurance would have been a wiser choice...

Followed by Torte reform and cross state availability of insurance.

Yes, this IS HISTORY in the making.

So was Hiroshima.

Everybody get ready for the new tax increases that we will see next year. If we are lucky it will take a few years to get to the HIGH taxes that Europeans pay for their health care. But no matter what the tax raise is, just remember you are now paying for someone elses health care now, not yours. This is an extreme violation of every Americans constitutional right, and we all just sat back and let it happen. SHAME ON ALL AMERICANS!

The majority of Americans voted for Obama and a Democratic majority in congress. One of the main motivations was the promise of health care reform. Now, after 8 months of near continuous debate we are approaching the goal. Only one more hurdle to go. It's a great day for America!

Joe- you are correct. Libs believe it will be a long time coming for conservatives to get a 60 vote majority to overcome this historically shameful nationalization of 1/6th of our economy so it is passed full speed ahead. The Supreme court will almost certainly strike down this bribe laden disgrace. Honestly, is this the best and brightest minds in the land? If you have sat on the sidelines during elections in the past, we forgive you. Do not make that mistake in 2010 or 2012. Our children's children are counting on us.

What a horrible Christmas gift for the American People.

It is yet another Christmas for Corporate America and Wall Street, though.

As an FDR Democrat, I am crestfallen upon seeing that the Democrats have become spineless shills for Big Money...a position long-mastered by Republicans.

the promise of health care reform.

Yes that was the promise, but that is not what this bill does, and if you arent smart enough to realize that I honestly feel sorry for you.

There is, and has been, much misinformation about proposed bills. Remember, even w/ the passage of the Senate bill, it has to be reconciled w/ the House bill before a final bill is voted on!

It's sad that the insurance co's & their lobbyists have swayed the proposed bills so much & tried to defeat any bill. That their money caused lawmakers to try to scare the American public w/ claims of death panels, rationing, etc.

HCR reform is way overdue in this country. However, the insurance co's & lobbyists have effectively shaped the propsed bills & the American public wasn't in the lawmakers' interests. Politicians today vote the way the special interests want them to vote w/ little consideration for the people.

The GOP were invited to join in HCR but felt that defeating any HCR bill would be President Obama's waterloo. Of course, they were also guided by the campaign donations by the special interests. Some Dems added or omitted key provisions to satisfy these same special interests. $500 million, and counting, spent so far by these special interests to deprive the American people of true health care reform.

We should all be proud of our #37 ranking in the world when it comes to health care. Whether the final bill, if it passes, moves us up or down in the rankings remains to be seen. However, a HCR for the people should have moved us to #1, or a lot closer to it. Once again, lawmakers, on both sides of the aisle, have let the American people down!!!

Another vote without anyone reading the versionthey voted on. has anyone actually seen this legislation - where is the transparency.

So what happens when the govt. is no longer by the people and for the people? What do we do? Where is the provision for that? Do we just succumb and let this grow into Socialism or Communism? Come on people !

The only way we can get results is by.............

Vote 'em all out! If term limits cannot be legislated by and for our legislators, vote them all out. Oh, and eliminate that full retirement for Senators after they serve six years! Come on. They're all crooks and we've allowed it!

By what Bob?

Joe not Joe mota is who I was addressing in 1.14

joe mota, wait a while and you will absolutely see how great a day this is for America. I can't wait for Boehner to snatch that gavel out of Nancy's hand. H.Reid won't have that chance. Nevada will handle him for us and he won't be back.

By the ballot box gramps, if we can keep you and acorn from stuffing them AGAIN. Stuart smalley is in the senate today because of liars and cheats like you.

vmoptions
It's a darn shame some people would rather see more people in misery then get the health care they need. And we thought those on Wall Street were greedy. Main Street is even greedier!!!

Many Republicans are upset that their largest campaign contributors are going to see tax increases. Additionally, I heard one Republican talking how this is going to possibly reduce his bankruptcy cases by 5-10% and that he is not pleased either.

You seem pretty damn greedy yourself having me pay for your health care and other largess. For some reason I just can't get the term blood sucking leeches out of my head.

Reid damn sure will lose his job next election.

You have to be one of the dumbest people left on this planet you think this Health Care Bill is going to help you well think again just wait and see then run your mouth.

GRAMPS The GOP were invited to join in HCR but felt that defeating any HCR bill would be President Obama's waterloo. The GOP was never invited.. Rememebr when they were first invited and obama told them to get over he won.. That was the last time they were invited..

No Change------- What we got---------------------------- What we could have got

[-----------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------]

Corporate Interests you can believe in!

Joe, remember the gang of 6? Three GOP & 3 Dems. They would ask for concessions or additions, get them & immediately run to the tv cameras & say they will vote no!!! The GOP has promised for months to provide their version of HCR & no such bill ever showed up.

The GOP saw this as Obama's waterloo & Sen DeMint said so on many occasions! And he wasn't the only one. You can't debate an issue when you are just saying no!!!!

This is the end..... beautiful friend........

And there arose from the Democrat party a decree that all should be forced into health care plans.

For those who are not aware of the parallel.

"And there arose from Caesar that all should the world be taxed"

Same kind of thing different era. The only difference the democrats tell us this is for our own good. If politicians want something, it almost always is for their own good and only has to work out for who supports them.

First off, the Insurance Industry gave more in contributions to the Democratic Party than the Repubican Party.

Also by making Insurance MANDATORY, the insurance companies have just "won" 30 million more customers.

This is a pure win for the Insurance Industry not Joe Public.

AND THE TAKEOVER OF AMERICA CONTINUES DESPITE WHAT WE THE PEOPLE WANT!!!!

This is a slap in the face of the American citizens. NO biprtisanship whatsoever. Closed door meetings with just ONE party. Bribes, payoffs, sweetheart deals, preferential treatment. We will be paying for this "GUESS WHAT'S IN IT" piece of S**T legislation for 3 years before ANY BENEFIT even starts. The fuzzy math doesn't add up. NO ONE knows what is really in this MASSIVE propaganda. but AS USUAL with government programs we will pay more and more for less and less. Forced participation in a government run program or be subject to fines or jail, which slaps in the face of our CONSTITUTION.

THIS IS WHAT OUR CONSTITUTION SHOULD PROTECTS US FROM!!!!!!

Yet some of the Lieberals think this is a good thing. But why wouldn't they? Money and control is all they want. If any of you truly believe this will somehow help you, the economy and our country you need to reread the Bills.

OH WAIT, ONCE AGAIN, NO ONE HAS READ THE BILL, NOR WILL THEY!!!!!!!!!

THIS is the shame of what our political system has been reduced to. Massive bills, the Failouts, the $timulu$, the Omnibus budget with 5,000 earmarks and NO ONE HAS READ ANY OF THEM,,,,,,STILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

America is being deceived, lied to and misdirected. Our nation is teetering on the brink of financial collapse yet our government continues to shamelessly spend OUR MONEY as if we have an endless supply. And why shouldn't they?

IT'S NOT THEIR MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS IN 2010 AND 2012!!!!

DEMAND TERM LIMITS!!!!

DEMAND TRUE "SUNLIGHT BEFORE SIGNING" OF ALL LEGISLATION!!!!

DEMAND THE FED AND THE TREASURY ARE INVSTIGATED AND AUDITED TO SHOW WHERE TRILLIONS OF OUR DOLLARS HAVE GONE!!!!

DEMAND A BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT!!!!

DEMAND YOUR POLITICIANS ADDRESS THE ONLY PROBLEM FACING OUR NATION,,,,

IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Despite all of our political differences, this is a time to reflect on our FAMILY, FRIENDS, FAITH AND COUNTRY. Use the Christmas season as our forefathers wanted it to be, a time of reflection on what made this country great.

I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.

And we all know that the insurance industry is going to raise the premiums to pay for those with pre-existing conditions because there would be no other way for them to be profitable, so in essence 85% of us are going to be screwed just so 15% of us can have insurance.

Jac:

Lawmakers don't read bills. That's why they have overpaid large staffs! Their staffs browse through proposed bills for something their leaders agree w/ or disagree w/ then contact them about that provision. Lawmakers spend too much time in front of tv cameras to read the bills. They are now campaigning 24/7!!! Bills aren't about the American people anymore, they are shaped & paid for by special interests that contribute to their re-election campaigns!!!

The majority of voters are against this and it still passed. Anyone who doesn't see the arrogance of congress must believe what the talking heads tell them to believe.

We need to get ALL of them out of office, stop paying their salaries/offices, etc for life, stop letting them decide if they deserve raises, and paying their medical benefits (take note that they are exempt from this premium coverage).

Let's force them to live within the laws they pass for those of us who pay taxes. Too bad that we can't try all of them for treason and have public hangings.

Dems own Contributors are getting screwed Sorry when villianize the generators of the economy you are also screwing up where you get your money for all your spending then where do you get your money the now almost nonexistant Middle class oh I forgot these desisions are made by Rich democrats who have lost touch with those of us who have to live with their ideas. As a wise elderly Native Amerian gentleman said long ago "Never let the Government have complete control of your life and never ever trust that it is will take care of you."
Why can Certain people on MSNBC call others idiots and stupid this is not fair and balance nothing that I wasever taught in news. It is OP ED which should have a place for responses.....

Finally why can you not contact Olberman and Maddows on their site are they afraid of real peoples opinions istead of hearing themselves talk, and telling us how to think.

There's a saying in the investment world: "Better 50% of something then 100% of nothing". As usual, the Republicans joined force to give the American public the latter . . . NOTHING! Just like what they had offered as an alternative . . . NOTHING!

I really don't see what so many people are crowing about. I guess the same complaints were apparent when Social Security, then Medicare and Medicaid were introduced, yet the same "whiners" enjoy those benefits later in life. As I see it, 30 million Americans will have health care, and all of those complaining come down to one concern: Money! What a total shame.

Worried about who will pay for this healthcare reform? Let's just drop all of those who are registered Republican from Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Let them suffer!

Nelson's deal gave even more to those insurance companies.

"beware of Greeks bearing gifts".

In the end this bill sets up committees that determine what is acceptable care, what is affordable care, what kind of policies the insurance can write, a range of premiums that can be charged and how much each raise the premiums each year. Although these will go to committees, the committes will be selected by those who run the government now. If you think they are saviours, God bless you accordingly.

This is the end.... my only friend, the end....

As I recall, the bill to enact the Federal Reserve also took place during the winter holiday season. How is the economy, employment and the value of the USD doing?

Seems that the worst and most corrupt legislation happens during the time period just before a major holiday or very close to election time.

Big pharma and their billions in lobby/donations/gifts just got a huge victory with this vote to approve what will handcuff many American citizens. If you actually take time to read this bill, or at least major sections, you will quickly see the nightmare to implement it combined with special interest funding and other 'perks' for those well connected.

I am really glad this this past. This will be the final nail in the democrates coffin. Once the average working American is forced to buy Obama Health Care, and see their pay checks decrease due to the higher taxes. If you think the taxes will only be to those making big bucks, and will only hurt the Insurance company I have some beach front property in Arizonia I would like to sell you. God save America.

Demetrix:

These figures don't include donations during the last couple of months but do show that both parties have been corrputed by the HC industry!!!

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 8, 2009

Health insurers and drug makers have showered members of the 111th Congress with millions in campaign contributions over the last four years, with a special focus on leaders who will play major roles in shaping health-care legislation, according to a study to be released tomorrow.

Health insurers and their employees contributed $2.2 million to the top 10 recipients in the House and Senate since 2005, while drug makers and their employees gave more than $3.3 million to top lawmakers during that period, according to an analysis of federal elections data by Consumer Watchdog, a California-based advocacy group.

The biggest beneficiaries in the Senate included John McCain (R-Ariz.), with $546,000; Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), with $425,000; and Max Baucus (D-Mont.), with $413,000, who as head of the Finance Committee will play a leading role in the debate over health-care reform.

In the House, the two groups gave $257,000 to Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and $249,000 to Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.). On the Democratic side, Rep. Earl Pomeroy (N.D.) received contributions from the insurance sector ($104,000), while Rep. John D. Dingell (Mich.) took in $180,000 from drug companies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030701748.html

Everyone in the Congress and Senate should have to wear decals on their suit jackets so that every American knows who and what they are really voting for, because if any of you think that those in Washington have your interests in mind, think again....Looks as though the health insurance industry will continue to live long and prosper. Love to find out how many of those voting for this Bill actually READ IT. This Bill will do nothing for the average American except raise taxes but what do you expect when legislation is thrown together and pushed through so that Air Force One can take off for Hawaii at its scheduled time??

USARogue

Good job.

JK from PA

I would be thrilled if "Let's just drop all of those who are registered Republican from Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid." and we won't have to pay into anymore. Most of us are tired of supporting everyone else.

Big problem for you? Most of us can afford to pay our own bills. We also pay the largest percentage of our income in taxes. So how much would your taxes increase without us footing the bill?

Question should be: Can you afford this without all our (registered republicans) money?

Seems like all men are not created equal, all except those exempt in Nebraska on carying their fair share of taxes to pay for this bill...

The methods that gained passage of the Senate bill should be a shameful message of how this country is truly run. The Administration condemns lobbyists but when the Senate does the very same thing with your money its called leadership. Please liberals, tell me the difference here???

This country should not accept the immoral and unethical methods in Washington, no matter what bill is being worked on. Our country is sadly broken when this behavior is accepted as the norm. We need government reform...

So basically Dodd simply stated that the Senate knows what's best for all of us, that we are too stupid to understand the long term effects of this piece of garbage. Just another example of cradle to grave this democratic congress wants for Americans everywhere. This is just incredible, 58% of the American people see this as it is, a means of gaining control of your dollars and sense.

2010 can't come soon enough, then this thing can be repealed. Dodd is not going to make the cut, no matter what happens in the next few weeks. His father was disgraced and now he is, but don't worry, Fannie and Freddie took care of him. He should be investigated and sent to prison as an example to the rest of them.

The hell with the Republicans.I'm concerned with the fact that the senate is putting forth a bill that CANNOT be amended, is NOT deficit neutral, will insure illegals, has special arrangements with some states, and was voted on in the middle of the NIGHT !!!

ALL CONSTITUENTS, whether Dem or Repub should be voted out next November, and replaced with people who will listen to the people, not the lobby.

For the first 4 years this bill will provide taxes, not healthcare. If you call that a solution... I don't even know what to say.

The fact that the insurance companies just received new, hostages, um, I mean customers... Also angers me.

Our politicians, playing power games with dishonest negoications, and Pork and Ear Marks for all with the brains and power to get them.....

What happened to change? Transparency, less pork, less ear marks? I didn't vote for obama, as I do not vote for either political party. However, I did have some hope for some of the vision he created. Just business as usual. I felt pretty strongly about not liking Bush, but Obama, has rendered me speechless.

For those of you who are happy about this program, I honestly hope you are right. I forecast, bankrupt hospitals, over taxed people, and an on going recession. As I said... I hope to be from.

Everyone knows what a bunch of thugs the dems are. But, the handling of this bill also shows that the repubs are a bunch of wimps. Whatever happened to the strategy utilized on Sander' amendment? Sure it was withdrawn and the reading stopped in violation of the Senate's long standing rules of requiring a reading unless dispensed with by unanimus consent. But, why didn't the repubs push for it for the entire bill. The bill was supposed to have been voted on late tonight, but the repubs kowtowed and allowed the vote this morning. They should have held firm in their beliefs and let the vote be tonight, and then at the appointed hour, request a reading of the bill. When getting steamrolled, you use whatever means available. This is a disgrace on all sides.

Gramps-1235375
The GOP has promised for months to provide their version of HCR & no such bill ever showed up. ... You can't debate an issue when you are just saying no!!!!

And you would be completely wrong on that. It's a typical Democratic lie that you might be buying into but it's categorically false. The Republicans have offered many amendments and ideas for helping to cut down on costs outside of just saying no to Democratic ideas. There were a good amount of things the Republicans and Democrats agreed upon first off, but secondly, every single thing the Republicans proposed, including insurance companies competing across State lines and tort reform, two large things that would have actually had an impact and helped lower the cost of health care for Americans, were ignored and flatly rejected by the Democrats just so they could continue trying to paint the illusion that the Republicans were nothing but the "party of no".

I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I'm a moderate independent, social liberal & fiscal conservative. I vote Democrat more often than Republican because while I really dislike collectivism, I loathe social conservatism. But the Democrats have been doing nothing but flat out lying in terms of this myth that Republicans haven't offered anything constructive for health care reform. The Democrats just didn't care to listen because the Progressives thought they had enough power to drag the country down into their wet dream of collectivized single payer health care.

one question,what about the Constitution do you not understand?

Dragonchef

As a proud Native American I have been shouting about this problem for years how our government has lied, who speak in fork tongue and has no honor in "TRUTH". The government does not care about the majority of the American people, only 35% who have no healthcare but our crooked friends in Washington forget one thing that some of these citizens who do not have it don't want it because the people rather spend their money on toys, like boats,watercraft toys and other items especially the younger generation. This crappy bill wil add to the deficit and taxes on all Americans will be raised, you'll see small businesses lay off more people or go under do to all these restrictions. You will "SEE".

I for one will be voting alot of these idiots out of office. I am so tired of the corruption, the bribes, high deficits, pork spending, taxes. Every Ameircan is on a budget why can't our own government do the same.? These double tongue idiots should set a good example. If people don't vote these idiots out of office then the VOTERS are the problem why this country is sinking in Debt for listening and falling for lies by the corrupted politicians. Just think back to how my ancestors were double crossed with lies by the government.

I AM A PROUD NATIVE AMERICAN (BLACKFOOT).

This is a giant step for US citizens! Now lets get the 300 million or so people covered. Medical care, and drug prices need to be realistic and honorable before this plan can work. Don't say no, if this is done honestly, it will benefit us all. HONESTLY and for the GOOD OF THE PEOPLE being key to success. The people of the USA have to do away with the bribery/lobby system that corrupts all good ideas.

"President Barack Obama's legacy", is this what it is all about. This is one I would not want to go down in history with, but then again he got the Nobel Peace Prize and then sent more troops into Afghanistan. What a legacy!!!

vmoptions, I for one am neither a Republican or a Democrat. I chose to not look at the Party like you do and actually look at the individual who is running for office. Cleary that is not the case where you are concerned. If you have bothered to read this Bill that just past the senate rather than listening to the talking points, you would find out that more people will be hurt from this bill than those that are presently uninsured.

It's scary enough that we have representatives sitting in DC who will not listen to the majority of their constituants, but it is far more scary when the constituants at home are not actually educating themselves on what impact this will be to this country and rather just spout off talking points from one party or another and spend absolute no time or energy researching it themselves. Another reason why were here today.

I blame both parties for this mess, the Republicans who had control of the three offices and didn't take care of what actually needed to be taken care of, tort, pre-existing condition, and competition across State lines. Now the we have the Dems who passed a bill they didn't read, have only one of the three reforms in place, plus a lot to taxes tied to it. Not to mention bribed others representitives to vote on this fiasco.

Mark my words, if this gets to the floor for a final vote and actually passes, you will be on here screaming when you see how much this bill is going to cost you personally. The charges to your pocket will be immediate, the potential benefit if there is any won't even get to you until possibly 2012!!

So where do you think all those taxes they plan to collect are going? In the general fund, just like SS to get spent on other things and will be broke before the programs even get started. Not in a trust specifically for Health benefits. But you knew all this right? I didn't think so.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yes the campaign contributors you refer to are called the US taxpayer. It's a sad day when the lazy, unwilling will now be rewarded for their unwillingness to improve their own lot in life as I and many others have done. Believe this, many in this country such as myself will expend great effort to see this massive bureaucratic boondoggle will never see the light. This is nothing more than a massive expansion of government and will prove to be the most economically repressive bill EVER created.

Once again the idiot Democrats find themselves in a precarious situation of impending doom as only they can perpetrate. This defining moment is the end of the line for these stupid bastards. The Republicans will gain enough seats to again be the majority next year. This legislation will be tied up in court for years. A total failure and waste of tax-payers money. Everytime Harry Reid opens his ignorant pie hole, he just furthers the movement. And besides, everyone knows this legislation is the dems pandering to the illegals and govt. dependent crack whores and the like to broaden their voting base. Not gonna happen! Want insurance? Get an f-ing job like the rest of us.

Remember this next November and Nov 2012 when you can vote all of these Democrats out of office for supporting this atrocity.

This plan is not going to get more people the health care they need. It's a pay-off to Democratic campaign contributors. And, by the way, I am NOT a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American, who wishes we had true representation in congress. This bill does NOT represent health care REFORM. It merely gives the gov't the opportunity to FORCE individuals and businesses to buy health insurance. And now, those who cannot afford insurance will be taxed if they don't purchase it. Let's see how much the gov't subsidies help them. Anyone who understands the meaning of the word, "reform" is laughing at this piece of deceit. Oh, for shame! "Taxation without representation!"

This thing is far from done and I don't see how it can survive the forthcoming court challenges---far too much corrupt dealmaking going on. In the real world, you do this kind of stuff and you'll be charged with bribery, face prosecution, and maybe jail time. It's buying votes pure and simple. What's it take to get your vote? No, this bill isn't going to help everyone. How does taking 500 billion out of Medicare over the next 10 years help the seniors. How does this bill fix Medicare or SS? You've taken money from one segment of society and gave it to another. The answers are far more complex than"We've done healthcare reform". That solves it all. Making all persons buy health insurance may in itself be unconstitutional? Supposition---suppose physicians and hospitals just say HEY, we can't accept Medicare anymore? I guess we're back to the drawing board.

The Republicans - en masse should have boycotted the vote. The Dems are going to do what they want regardless of what the American Public wants so why take part in thuis travesty of the American Political System?

JPM:

You sure do use a lot of GOP talking points for someone who is neutral. trying too add amendments to a bill that they said they would vote no on, was just a stalling tactic. They were against any HCR bill long before any proposed bill was written.

If they had joined deliberations in earnest, a much better bill could have been done. It would have also prevented any of the 60 from demanding sweetheart deals. A unified no vote by them gave Sens, like Nelson, Landrieu, Liebermann, etc too much power. Just as it gave Sen Snowe too much power.

I don't let Dems off either. I wrote several of them over the last several months expressing my disgust. I'm probably on the no-fly list now but I don't give a damn. I let Sen Baucus know that I didn't appreciate the piece of crap that he offered. I also told him that he's supposed to represent the people, not the HC industry that paid him well.

Both parties are to blame for keeping a real HCR bill for the people from the people. We desrved much better. We should be ashamed of our #37 ranking in health care. This bill will move us up or down a few notches but it won't bring us to #1 or anywhere close to it.

This is a giant step for US citizens! Now lets get the 300 million or so people covered. Medical care, and drug prices need to be realistic and honorable

LOL! Your "compasionate" liberal democrats just voted down a measure that would have allowed importation of FDA approved prescription drugs which would have saved up to 90% of the cost to patients. Completely bipartisan and everyone was for it.

Guess which party, unexpectedly and at the last minute, voted it down. I'll give you two guesses and the first one doesn't count.

And why? Well this is a just one bit of information among many that might clue you in:

The next (after Clinton) most popular recipient of health care industry funds was Barack Obama, who pulled in $2.2 million, or 19 percent of the total.

You're compasionate dems were bought off by insurance lobbyists and big pharma. And all this is, is a giant gift to the insurance and pharmaceutical companies. And you fell for it. BTW this bill doesn't cover "300 million" people. It merely forces about 30 million to get coverage whether they want it or not. And in actuality they say they're going to have a problem forcing THAT many people onto it because the dems still acknowledge that it will leave about 24 million uninsured. So we've got at least a 1$ trillion bill to insure 6 million people. What a joke.

And you continue to fall for it. LOL!

Well, maybe in a year or so when unemployment is twice as bad, taxes are up and you still haven't seen anything from this, you'll start to get it.

I'm not holding breath but maybe you will. In the mean time, put your fingers in your ears and chant "Hope and Change" over and over.

That way you won't have to deal with reality.

The government now can take care of you cradle to grave. No longer will a person have to contribute something to society, just breath air and suck up government hand outs. The founding fathers would be appalled.

Andy-1527112 Everybody get ready or the new tax increases that we will see next year.

Actually Andy, your taxes are increasing Jan 1st and they will increase again later in 2010 when Bush's tax cuts expire. Example: Based on Single claiming 0, paid bi-weekly $500 (below poverty level). Your taxes last year were $29. Starting Jan 1st they are going to be $33. When Bush's Tax cuts expire at year end that amount goes to $86.
And your right, when this bill is added to that, wait... All those individuals who have repeated the talking points "Bush gave tax cuts to the rich" will be crying in their soup when they lose those and on top of it have this fiasco of a bill taxes added to that increase.

"In Nebraska, home to conservative Democrat Ben Nelson, the Democrats' crucial 60th vote, the federal government will pay 100 percent of the cost of a planned Medicaid expansion in perpetuity, the only state getting that deal."

I hope everyone asks themselves, did I use my vote last election to change the congress or did I vote for the incumbent, self-serving politician, be it a Republican or Democrat , who has become entrenched in office. How is it that congress had a 12% approval rating yet 96% were reelected? The "my congressman is ok, it's all the others that are the problem" syndrome was, as always, in play. I wonder if the voters of Nebraska care that their Senator, Ben Nelson, was bribed! These politicians need to loose there job! They are responsible for the state of this country. The American people have gotten the Government that they deserve. Next election, vote against all incumbents, or look in the mirror to see the real problem.

hang tight and if you're lucky you will see this @!$%# begin in 4 yrs. until then, we are all @!$%#ed.

America was founded based on the INDIVIDUALS RIGHT TO CHOOSE -

Government is not and can not be a "cure-all" - The weak, brain washed, citizens of this country, that think they are "entitlrd", because they are lazy, have lost her way, and have become a burden.

The basic rights of the citizens of the US have been stripped of their Constitutional freedoms and rights, by their own government.

The demise of America came from within, as was predicted! Where in the Constitution does it say, those that work, must care for the scammers thar don't.

Hey, you don't have the right to TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH THE MONEY I MAKE! Thanks to you and all the other entitlement sponges, my healthcare insurance premiums will go through the roof. I have a Grandson and I would like to help my son and daughter-in-law send him to a good school and perhaps even college someday. Again, thanks to the socialist in power and idiots like you, I may not be able to scrape the money together to send him! I have multiple sclerosis and I don't ask for a dime from the taxpayer. It's my responsibility to take care of my family and myself. If someone is truly in need of help they got it before this slavery bill was enacted...including a lot of lazy people who should not have 4 and 5 children that they can't afford!

tactical45 waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I've looked at some of your other posts. They are all just as brilliantly written. I sampled a few clever phrases:

What a gas. waaaaaaaaaaaaa

Albeeeeeee-poor albeeeeee

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa We are still paying for all your mistakes

MMos575010--waaaaaaaaaaaaa

Does your mommy know you're using the computer? You're probably just cranky because you haven't had your nap today. BTW I think your "a" key is stuck.

Do you think for one minute these polliticians are going to stop at taxing the rich. They are already forcing me to buy something I don't want with this bill. All I need is an orthepedic Dr incase I break a bone. They have no right making this mandatory.

What a fine Merry Christmas from the know-it-all-better-than-you-do-US-Senate !!

It is stunning how the KEEPERS of the Consititution can so easily IGNORE the constitution.

Special gifts to one state over others. ILLEGAL

Clause in the bill FORBIDDING FUTURE CONGRESSes from repealing - can't do it all laws may be ammended or repealed - no congress my holdover another -

Mandate citizens buy - can't be done FREEDOM OF CHOICE !!

BUT WHO CARES ??

This mess has bupkis to do with healthcare reform - if this was seriously the goal and not something else - then there would have been a bi-partisan effort to reform - but - this wasn't the case. How can 16.67% of the US ECONOMY be taken over by the US Government on a PARTISAN BILL & VOTE ??

How can 60+% of AMERICANs BE AGAINST THIS LEGISLATION - yet it is passed on a PARTISAN VOTE?

Why would the PARTISAN DEMOCRATS be so willing to sacrifice their majority in next years elections ?

=======================================================

What is it that we are NOT BEING TOLD ????????????

Presidential Executive Order 6102

coming in 2010 ?

=======================================================

Clb and others who feel noble in looking at the man and not the party: I sounds like you pride yourselves in keeping up on politics and doing your research on the candidates. My question is, what part of 60 dem votes for and 39 repub votes against is about the man and not the party?

I don't care for a complete platform of either party. I, am one of many who are considered to be a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. Probably would be considered a libertarian, except I think that party drops the ball on national defense. When choosing between the parties, I'll put the money first. My reason is that without fiscal responsibility, personal liberties and freedoms won't exist. Just look at what is going on now for the evidence. Freedoms are dropping faster than flies around zapping lights.

Yes, the repubs have dropped the ball way to much. But, it seems to me that the dems have also figured out that a way to win elections is to run in both parties. There is little traditional republican that anyone can see in Snow, Collins, Specter, or the way McCain ran his campaign. With regard to the social issues of the repubs, I've looked at them as pretty much a non-issue. Their stance on abortion is half-hearted and not a real issue for most who actually talk the line. Only the single issue voters are concerned about this issue. And, I'd say there is way too much hypocracy with the issue. It's all fine and dandy to talk about the right to life. The problem is that for the most part those who feel most passionate about it seem to lose their passion after the kid is born. Who cares if the kid is beat up, hospitalized, killed or spends the rest of his youth in state foster care. When I see that they have developed a system that provides for easy, inexpensive adoption and when all the troubled kids in the system are adopted out by those who felt compelled to make sure they are born, then they will have my respect. It does seem that the repubs preach freedom, but then drop the ball as soon as it is convenient to do so. Why are they against gay marriage? Afterall, the issue isn't even about "marriage". It's about equal rights. Why should only certain people be allowed the legal rights offered by the state? It seems rather egotistical to take the possition that I can marry whoever I want, whoever I fall in love with, but you can't. The fact is that who I choose to marry isn't going to have any affect on anyone else any more than gays marrying. So, yes, it seems dumb, but that is changing and within 10 years all states will allow gay marriage and the federal tax code will allow joing filing.

On the dem side, they preach freedoms, but they seem to want everyone else to pay for it. But, they also only want the freedoms they want. Just look at the debates. As a whole, I've found that repubs are open to discussions of issues and have no problem with open debates. The dems, on the otherhand, can't seem to accept the open debates. I have seen many more mean dems who have broken off friendships over politics than I could ever think possible. It seems like Alinsky's influence in that regard is almost inherent or second nature to repubs.

Bottome line is party does matter. One has to choose which issues are more important when the votes are counted.

Add me to the roster of disappointed Democrats. Real health care reform would put doctors on salary, bring the hammer down on prescription prices, and make health care a right, not a privilege. Of course that will never happen while we are shoveling billions of dollars a month into GWB's wars.

clb-462357 #1.69

Good post. It shouldn't take long before the reality of what's happened will hit the libs on here in the face. I think they're all in for a very unpleasant surprise.

I don't read or hear the Health Insurance companies complaining do you?

Give them back what they give you. Even it out and do it legal.

If you are mandated by law to buy insurance or become a Federal criminal Felon then get sick. Use the darn plans. Make sure that you go to a doctor for every little pain you may have everytime. Cost them over and over. Unemployed...get sick. Foreclosed...get sick. Low credit score...get sick! Low wages...get sick!

Since the whole idea is for 30,000,000 people who are not insured to be forced to pay to become insured by private "for profit" companies, then let 30,000,000 new insured people get sick over and over during the year.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE MADE TO PAY BY THE LAW THEN GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH BY THE LAW!

kacky.....GWB has been gone for a year, you need to find a new excuse for the democraps failures!

Twas the day berore Christmas, and no hope of revision, The US took another giant leap toward socialism,

With the Koran by his side, and him wrapped in the thunder thighs of baby mama's girth, He asked Santa for a US certificate of birth,

And his happiness was felt on the white house grounds, What joy to have government grow by leaps and bounds,

And he exclaimed to the dems and placed a quanzi towel round his head, on to communism, capitalism is dead!

Options, your right, it's a great bill!

We are not sure of the cost.

We are really not sure whats in it, no TRANSPARENCY. Remember that word?

It was passed by hook or by crook against the wishes of the majority.

I'm not to sure you would conduct your own financial and household affairs in this manner. Would you?

The real truth about the mess is simply this "B.O.H.I.C.A." For those of you who don't know that that acronym means it is "Bend over here it comes again."

This is a mixed blessing. For those who don't have and want health insurance and "really" can't afford it, most will have it, in 4 years that is! For those who have it and didn't want more government intervention in their lives, they will be getting it anyway! For those who have health insurance now and like it, expect your premiums to increase as the insurance companies get hit with taxes that they will pass along to us. For those who are young, healthy, don't need health insurance, tough @!$%#! Kiss that house or new car goodbye! Don't even think about saving money for a rainy day cause you'll have to spend your money for health insurance that you don't want, don't need and can't afford! I would not be surprised to see more companies close their doors in this country and move to a more business friendly country.

Don't get me wrong I am not totally against every provision of this bill. The part where if you get sick your insurance company can not drop you is GOOD! The part where if you have a preexisting condition insurance companies can not deny you insurance is also good, but it has some very real potential side effects. The most obvious side effect is either the person with the preexisting condition will have to pay and increased premium or every body's rates will go up to cover the insurance company's increased cost of coverage for those people. Facts are insurance companies are in the business of making a profit and they will do that by whatever legal means necessary. Since our wonderful Federal Government will now increase the cost of running their business, they will pass along that increase to us, it is a matter of simple economics regardless of what Harry Reid, POTUS Obama and the rest of the Washington gang says.

We get to look foreword to 3-4 years of no benefits and increased taxes (direct and indirect.) Merry Chistmas America I am sure POTUS Obama, Reid and Pelosi are all laughing their collective butts off and what they have just done to this country. Especially, since it will not effect them since they are exempt from the effects of the bill they just passed and Obama will soon sign into law.

Next year we get to look foreword to Cap & Trade being rammed down our throats. At least unlike the joke of a health care reform bill, you will have choices to reduce or eliminate the effects of this ill timed bill. You can (a) install solar panels and wind turbines to at least reduce what will be the increase in cost on your electric or natural gas bill. (b) You can install enough solar and wind power to get completely off the grid and tell the power company to shove it. (c) You can simply do without, heat with wood, suffer (depending on where you live) in the summer time. (d) You can ride a bike or walk everywhere you go so you don't need fossil fuel of any kind.

Once again this Cap & Trade will have a trickle down effect on our economy and it will not be good. If the cost of producing goods becomes to much, companies will simply go to another country and take American jobs with them, much like the effects of the forced health care bill. If the cost is doable they will simply pass along the increased cost to the consumers, yes that is you and me. Once again Obama and Congress will not care because they will simply increase their pay to offset the increased cost.

By now you would think it would be becoming apparent what Obama's true agenda is. That is to DESTROY free enterprise and the capitalistic way of life in this country and make us all dependent on and controlled by the very government that is supposed to be working for us.

I have high hopes that we can stop this in 2010 by weakening the liberal power base in Congress and replace them with people who can think for themselves and listen to the people who put them in office, people who can and will say NO! to POTUS Obama when his ideas are not in the best interests of this country. I strongly suspect that in 2012 people will be getting hit hard enough by the effects of the Obama Administration to want another change and tell Obama goodbye. QED!

bring the hammer down on prescription prices,

kacky Your party could have achieved that last Tuesday but chose not to.

Place the blame where it belongs.

i predict a civil war of sorts within the next three years. you ask what the line that will devide this nation be. quite simple really. you either support the government and its policies or you dont. i don't so just call me a gray. you sir blindly follow this corrupt government, seeing evil and calling it good. you go your way, and i'll go mine. but when the sky cracks open and you hear the trumpet blow, you better be on the "right side"

vmoptions,

Expalin to me how, according to the democrats, this is a starting point from which we can move forward on health care when Reid has included language in the bill tying the hands of any future congress by forbidding them from tinkering with or changing anything in the bill?

Colonel:

WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted down two drug importation amendments to the healthcare reform bill Tuesday night in a complex procedural maneuver that highlighted the not-so-subtle influence the pharmaceutical industry has in Congress.

The votes involved a proposal by Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.), that would have allowed importation -- or often the reimportation -- of FDA-approved drugs that sell in other countries for a fraction of the prices American consumers pay.

Long popular with consumer groups, advocates for senior citizens and many Democrats (including President Barack Obama when he was a senator), the proposal is vehemently opposed by the pharmaceutical industry and many Republicans.

The partisan lines were fairly clear until this week when it appeared the measure might actually have the 60 votes needed to avoid a filibuster and become part of the healthcare bill. That's when senators of both parties began switching sides to keep both Dorgan's bill and a watered-down substitute from getting the required supermajority.

Guess what I amnot Republican and I dont want this crammed up my...... I just dropped my health care and going to let you guys pay for it.

We said yes, and finally, it's done. I am so glad the intelligent and caring people in the Congress and and Senate are on the side of those who voted for change.

Kacky: I'm glad you are all for equality. You at least are consistent. Your proposal will provide for the practice of medicine by janitors, as not many of the doctors will go along with your mandate. At least we will have in place those who already know how to clean up messes. No offense meant to janitors. I respect what you do and appreciate it.

What a great present to give to the Kennedy's & the People Of The United States... The thing that got me... Was the Republicans were the only ones that didn't vote for it!!! They lived up to Their name the no Candidates...

Let's see now.

$500 Billion in cuts to Medicare - that should please the seniors.

$400 Billion in taxes and penalties to young people who don't want to buy insurance - that should make the young people who voted for the Democrats excited.

Higher premiums for the middle class to cover the higher costs of covering "pre-existing conditions" - that should make them happy.

Higher taxes and costs on businesses and investors – that should help job growth.

Collect taxes and penalties for 4 years before ANY coverage kicks in - that should make everyone else happy, sort of like paying for a car for 4 years before we get to see it.

Lower payments to doctors and hospitals, which will cause many of them to "retire early” or go out of business, which will lead to severe rationing of care – especially with 30 million more “insured” and much higher malpractice insurance premiums because they have to work 20% faster, and will have dramatic cuts in their “reimbursement rates” for services. The trial lawyers are salivating over this.

Is there any group that the Democrats left out when finding ways to screw up the economy?????

Oh - I almost forgot - They project the National Debt will go up by $1.2 Trillion more, which means it will ACTUALLY go up by about $3 Trillion because of this bill. Obama's own Budget calls for the National Debt to increase to over $23 Trillion in 10 years WITHOUT this bill's cost, but it's extremely optimistic, and will probably be over $30 Trillion, which will put our children and grandchildren hopelessly in debt to foreigners (like China) for their entire lives.

I think that covers just about everyone, except perhaps the illegal immigrants, who will get free or subsidized health care at taxpayer expense, but they can't vote (at least for now).

WE CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR'S ELECTIONS TO SHOW OUR “APPRECIATION”.

Of course we'll have to contend with ACORN, who will register a few million extra imaginary voters and illegal immigrants for the next election. It worked well in Minnesota, where they registered 48,000 new voters (using taxpayer funds), which allowed Al Franken to win the key 60^th Senate seat by 312 votes. Somehow they “misplaced” most of their registrations for Republicans.

You voted for “Change we can believe in”, and you certainly got it, didn't you.

CONGRATULATIONS.

I have never been more disgusted with the political system of this country! 1/6th of the country's economy in the hands of the national government. WE"RE SCREWED!

"He's having a merry Christmas in Heaven," Sen. Paul Kirk, D-Mass., appointed to fill Kennedy's seat, told reporters after the tally."

There is no place in heaven for a coward of a man who leaves a poor girl to drown in an automobile his drunk ass drove into a lake.

Rest in peace Mary Jo.

The vote this morning was a slap in the face to the American public, and an insult to the Constitution of the United States.

Kacky: I'm glad you are all for equality. You at least are consistent. Your proposal will provide for the practice of medicine by janitors, as not many of the doctors will go along with your mandate. At least we will have in place those who already know how to clean up messes. No offense meant to janitors. I respect what you do and appreciate it.

In a poll this year, 63% of doctors prefer a public option and another 10% prefer a single payer system. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112818960

It is our current system that doctors do not like.

Access to healthcare is a RIGHT. Just like the PURSUIT of happiness.

Forcing 5% of the population to pay 50% (and increasing) of ALL the taxes to pay for your healthcare is NOT A RIGHT any more than hapiness itself!

I have the RIGHT to buy a Ferrari to take me to work. I am not Privilidged enough to afford one. I do not resent those that can afford one (luxurious private option).I paid for my car (private option).Those that have worked (medicare), and those that cannot work (medicaid) and government employees rightfully deserve my help after they have paid their portion of the tax burden for a public option (city bus, not a Ferrari) unless they choose to purchase private insurance(private option) on their own. If someone cannot find employment,or will not work - public option (city bus).

I find it morally reprehensible that 80 percent (100 if the current Administration could take us to Socialism as they wish) of the population's healthcare will be put on the backs of the only 40-60 percent of the population that pays taxes!

I am disgusted with the abuse of power being displayed in D.C. ! I am voting the exact opposite of every incumbant in every election down to the office of dogcatcher in the next election! I am also taking to the streets to encourage the sleeping giant to wake up! i will vote against the incumbant Democrats for for their Socialist Agenda and against the incumbant Republicans for not having the political savvy or courage to stop the bankrupting of our nation.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

You are so naive.

The Republicans are making a statement. They regard their corporate campaign contributors to their employers and are only concerned for their benefit. They consider voters to be mere peasants who should shut up and take whatever scraps the corporate puppet-masters deign to give them. No matter how many times Republicans pontificate about the sanctity of life, it is clear human life is only sacred to them to the extent it can be used as a political wedge to trick people into voting for them. Their position on pre-existing conditions shows the complete and utter contempt they have for human life as they are claiming the right to decide who lives and who dies. How dare they criticize Democrats for alleged "death panels" that have existed for decades at private insurers, yet they feel no compulsion to defend human life against the depredations of private insurers. They continue to beat the drum of "government-funded-abortions" even though the bill explicitly disallows it. They continue to make the apples and oranges comparison of covering pre-existing conditions being he same buying auto insurance after getting into an accident. This is about human life, not property. The Republicans have selective amnesia when it comes to the numerous cases of insurers denying coverage to paying customers after the fact for conditions that were not pre-existing when they enrolled. For all their bluster, the Republicans have no plan of their own other than to force-feed the voters more of the same. They checked out of this debate a long time ago. If they wanted have more influence on the bill they should done their job to represent their constituents and participate in the drafting of the bill instead of just voting no. If the Republican don't like the bill, it is because they have failed to do their job.

Gramps

WASHINGTON-The amendment had been scheduled to come up for a vote last week, but was held up amid speculation that Dorgan had the votes. The vote Tuesday was 51-48, or nine shy of the 60 needed to overcome a filibuster. A total of 30 Democrats and independent Joe Lieberman of Connecticut voted against it.

I'm changing my voting affiliation to republican.

I never thought we could do worse than Bush, I was oh so wrong.

This puppet Odumbo is much worse.

We need health care reform but not a 2500 page document which cannot be understood or is filled with pork and more taxation. How does a bill no one understands get implemented? This is another example of a government which doesn't work. Incumbants, republican or democrat should be voted out of office!

Government has turned into a cluster...

meh, you and I are going to pay for it all fool.

Just a few points;

Democrats claim that this will prevent people from filing bankruptcy, but 85% pf people who file already have medical insurance, so I doubt this will change significantly under the new bill.

It's incorrect that these 30 million Americans that lack health insurance don't have health care - they already have health care because our hospitals are forbidden to deny care based on ability to pay - they go to emergency rooms and pay out of pocket, or just don't pay the bill.

The "penalty" for young people to go without insurance will be so much lower than the premiums that they will still go without insurance for many years to come (unless they get seriously sick, of course - then they'll join and we pay the extra cost).

They claim premiums will go down, but everyone knows the premiums for everyone will increase significantly because it requires coverage for "pre-existing conditions". You can't increase costs for insurance companies and expect them not to pass that added cost on to everyone.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) just admitted that the Democrats counted the "savings" from Medicare twice, which means that, instead of being "deficit neutral", this bill will significantly ADD to the deficit.

The former Director of the CBO admitted that their 10 year "projections" are essentially "useless" because of too much uncertainty, and are almost invariably grossly understated on "deficits".

Since the Trustee's Report for Medicare and the Social Security programs, the only large government run programs now in existence (until now), recently reported that the Unfunded Liability of these two programs is now well in excess of $100 Trillion (twice the net worth of ALL of America), anybody that thinks their taking over another one-sixth of the economy is a good thing needs to reconsider their thought processes.

Since the increase in the National Debt is far greater than any increase in the "deficit" because of accounting gimmickry, this will increase the National Debt by perhaps as much as $2 Trillion over 10 years.

Congratulations on the "Change you can believe in".

To Nancy from Wisconsin; Who is "WE". The same group that lost the 08 election? Let it be known, I'm not with YOU, nor have I ever been with you. I am an INDEPENDANT voter. I dare think for myself! It is about time you losers own up to being--- "losers". You have been losers for sometimes and refusing to own up to that fact. But now you are only OBSTRUCTIONIST! Our way,or the highway;NEVER MORE! That attitude equates to RULING, not Governance. Elections have CONSEQUENCES, and that is the way it ougth to be.

To paraphrase your "old"mantra, America- love it or leave it; And just how does it feels to have that shoe on the other foot, YOUR FOOT? This is something to consider when spewing your hate and ignorance around the world; as indeed this site goes!!!

The 2010 and 2012 elections will be here before you know it, Then you can get back to electing people just like YOU. The same ilk that put us in this mess in the firsr place. And just how does that reflect on YOU???

MERRY CHRISTMAS ****** ******S!

...

I hope Democrats don't get re-elected for another hundred years because of this crap.

Aren't ya excited now your taxes are going up? Or at least the taxes of those who actually set prices on the things you buy? Aren't ya especially glad you'll now have to buy insurance even though they won't cover pre-existing conditions for another 4 to 5 years?

My ancestors, excluding my mother's side of the family, came to America in the late 1600's. My mother's side of the family were already here (my Grandmother was a Sioux - a college graduate in 1914).

My point is this. "We" didn't want any of the 19th C. immigrants but they came by the millions anyway (Irish, Jew, Italian).

So, now, it is my hope that politics continues to ruin what was once a great place to live. My hope is that more and more and more stimulus packages are tossed into the mess, making the scum pay and pay and pay.

Twas the night before Christmas, in the Senate and House

The people were reeling, but their fire not doused

The chains on the doors, seeming to scream

For the sake of the country, please don’t reconvene

Politicians believing them safe in their beds

But visions of reckoning danced in their heads

With Reid in his one-sie and Nelson in wait

It seemed the backroom deal had involved a bedroom date

When on the front lawn, there arose such a racket

Nelson ran out the back, forgetting his jacket

Reid all alone, without his cowardly “friend”

Tiptoed to the window, praying this wasn’t his end

As he peeked out the window, moonlight hit his porch

A tendril of smoke rose from what looked like a torch

As he cursed to himself, he opened the door

And stomped on the small fire alit on the floor

When what to his wondering nose should he smell

A stench so abhorrent; yes, it smelled like hell

He looked at his shoe, now all covered in sh!t

When he suddenly heard a jolly old fit

He finally noticed, at the end of his yard

Sat eight tiny reindeer and a fat tub of lard

A white beard to his waste and a face full of cheer

He screamed “I thought about coal, but then I had beer”

“You screwed your country, what was I to do?”

“So I lit a paper bag, filled with reindeer poo”

“Your time as the lead in the Senate will end”

“Merry Christmas to all, bring on 2010”

Schannonin: You've made your point. The people who are gullible enough to believe the promises of the politicians are also likely to believe flimsy, politically designed "surveys" that support the scam. I've talked to a number of doctors and have yet to find any who are in favor of this. Sure, they aren't necessarily totally happy with the way things are, but, that's not saying anything. It's easy to find criticism of any system in place. That's not the same as supporting any other particular alternative. Probably the biggest change doctors would like is to not have to spend all the time and money that they have to do to protcect their tails. Also, they'd like to not have to deal with all the garbage they have to deal with to get reimbursed by the government, and insurance companies. But, to believe that doctors actually would prefer to have the government control it all requires one to suspend reality.

Merry Christmas America!!!

I think whats going to happen now, is you'll find more and more clinics refusing to accept insurance and working on a cash-only basis. That way the doctors don't have to mess with all the hoopla.

Whats sad is people going to jail because they are going to be FORCED into having to pay for insurance rather than food. Don't tell me its not going to happen because it will. Obama's legacy is already set he has brought down America to the depths of despair. Lets see him and the little family go on another vacation I think I have counted 6 or 7 since he has been president and I couldn't even go bury my GRANDMOTHER as I kill myself working 2 jobs. I hate this country for what it has become. Here's a thought..why not offer low cost health care to people and let them decide if they can afford it...naww we're too busy paying for illegal aliens to have private rooms on extended stay at our hospitals..while working people go without..GOOD Goin OBAma You don't have my respect...at all.

SHAME on the Republicans for sitting out on this in totality. Just shows how BANKRUPT they have become.

SHAME on BEN NELSON for exacting your pound of flesh on the backs of the rest of America! Leeches like you and Lieberman suck this country dry!

Is it a perfect piece of legislation - Heck No. But to keep the status quo qould have been criminal and none of the nay sayers had anything better to contribute.

To the people of America - START VOTING OUT MOST OF THESE WEAKLINGS AND NAYSAYERS. The House needs a thorough clean up and we need legislators that are in there to do some good for the people as a public service for a term maybe two and then get back to their original work. We dont need career legislators who are so entrenched that they have forgotten the original purpose of being there.

David Brooks, a moderately conservative columnist, wrote a nice piece a few days ago about the strengths and weaknesses of the health care bill. There were no mentions of death panels or socialists at the gates, but he brought up some good points. He remains on the fence about the bill and didn't commit to a position, even by last Friday. I'm no political scholar or in-fighter like any one of the hundreds of talking heads that spit vitriol and campaign slogans on our "news" networks, but I would place Brooks as a right-leaning moderate. His stances resemble those of a knowledgeable moderate conservative. He, reasonably, is concerned about the bill, but not full-throatedly against it.

Meanwhile, Washington has no David Brookes. Republican moderates have been so alienated as RINOs by the hard right that there are only two Republican Senators left that would even CONSIDER voting for this health care bill or even take the steps to negotiate in good faith. Of course, both voted against the bill, but I thought it was telling that there are only two left willing to work with the other side on anything.

I guess what I'm getting at is the Repubs will probably win lots of house seats in 2010. They will probably pick up a Senate seat or two or three. But they will learn a fundamentally flawed lesson. When in trouble, turn right. When down don't expand the tent, contract it in in favor of the ideologically pure. Contract it to only those who will be loyal to the cause wrong or right.

So I predict to see a Sarah Palin clone (if not herself) nominated in 2012. Once again the Repub convention will be filled with cowboy hats, and not a brown face will be found in the building, other than a few brave reporters. But, the electorate is changing, and the Republicans (with the popularity of Sarah Palin and the like) started creeping slowly away from that change. They will be at full sprint by Summer of 2012 precipitating a presidential wollopping. Obama could win 40 states with 58% or more of the electorate.

I read a story immediately after the 2008 election. Obama won blacks, college educated whites, and hispanics. Had he gotten the same percentages of those demographic groups in 1992, McCain would have won the election easily. If the Dem gets those exact same percentages of those four groups in 2020, that Dem will win by 14% and nearly sweep the electoral college.

SHAME on the Republicans for sitting out on this in totality. Just shows how BANKRUPT they have become.

You know damn well nothing the GOP put forward was ever seriously considered by the CONTROLLING party.

The GOP were given an opportunity by the Democrats to vote against their core principles and FOR a BAD bill. I commend every one of them for voting against this POS.

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DIDN'T WANT THIS ****ING BILL!!! How hard is that to understand?

Meanwhile, Washington has no David Brookes

Scwannomin, instead of assuming the 2 or 3 GOP wafflers somehow represent the middle, why not pin it somewhere with the more numerous Democrats who had problems with the bill? Your presumption is that a reasonable person would support the bill. A reasonable person may very well oppose it.

I read a story immediately after the 2008 election. Obama won blacks, college educated whites, and hispanics. Had he gotten the same percentages of those demographic groups in 1992, McCain would have won the election easily. If the Dem gets those exact same percentages of those four groups in 2020, that Dem will win by 14% and nearly sweep the electoral college.

Unfortunately at this point, the support for Obama among white voters has now dropped below 19%. 90% or better of blacks still dig him. I don't think you'll see a repeat in 2012.

Unfortunately at this point, the support for Obama among white voters has now dropped below 19%. 90% or better of blacks still dig him. I don't think you'll see a repeat in 2012.

Guess what happens to McCain's 32% of hispanic votes when Obama brings up immigration reform and the loons from the Right start spitting their anti-Mexican slogans. And, there is no evidence Obama's approval among whites is below 19%.

Access to healthcare is a RIGHT. Just like the PURSUIT of happiness.

brown hornet: You obviously don't know a right from a good. Go read up on the definition of what is a right. Health care is a good--you pay for it. You do not pay for a right. Also, you do not have a right to thieve money from others. Writing or saying a lie over and over again doesn't make it a truth, even if you write it in bolded text or scream it at the top of your lungs.

Hay Bos1234 ,, WELL SAID!! Just a ton of closed door, back room deals and PAY-OFFS!!!!!!!!

This is truly history,,,, I do not think there has ever been a larger and more deceitful bunch of RATS in our Senate --EVER!!!

,

Next two elections America,,, we MUST take back our Senate and Congress!!!!!!

It's about time the senate has passed this health reform bill. This will help the majority of Americans for health care than what the teabaggers are telling people. Now the House of Representitives need to pass this health reform bill so that Mr. Barack Obama can sign it into law. vmoptions that is a great post that you wrote and it speaks the truth.

Schwannomin

1) NPR for a poll, are you kidding? Theres like a few thousand people who watch NPR.

2) From a conservative David Brooks who? A Moderate Republican is almost the same as a Liberal. That's what 2003 - 2006 showed us.

Gramps, that's because I'm not neutral. I'm definitely not neutral on this subject, the Republicans are right on this. I support same sex marriage rights, civil liberties, a strict separation of church and state, I'm pro-choice, I'm for the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act, and Don't Ask Don't Tell, I'm even for cutting down on carbon emissions as a precaution in case some of the dire prophesizing politicians are doing on uncertain scientific predictions happen to be true in terms of climate change.

But I am not netural on this, or anything really. I told you, I'm a social liberal, and a fiscal conservative. That's not neutral. The Democrats are wrong on this in trying to "fix" health care. It was a noble goal to try and expand coverage to those who don't have it if they could have found a responsible way to do it, but they haven't. They're about to make health insurance more expensive for everyone that used to be able to afford it, and they're going to add to the deficit which will eventually need to be paid for in higher taxes on those of us who earn a living. And they aren't even going to be getting everyone covered, they're just shifting around who can get coverage because they *feel* like the current system is somehow unfair, so instead they're giving out handouts to procure more dependency votes and screwing hard honest working Americans out of their living, and some of them out of the health insurance they did have because prices are about to go up and some people on the margin who don't qualify for the hand out benefits won't be able to afford it any more, so they'll pay fines instead for service they once had. That's what's happened here in MA under the disaster the progressives have enacted.

Merry Christmas. I'm going to start working for cash starting the 1st of the year. Thanks Congress, I'm going to make out good.

My family and I Thank the Senators and wish them a Merry Chrostmas!

The Democrats have been having Wett Dreams about the day when they have complete control for 4 decades. Now they have it. It will take another 4 decades to recover from their reckless spending of the past 10 months. The American Public needs to remember why we have not allowed this to happen since Johnson and make sure it never happens again!

Jeeze, look at the children throw the caps and bold around like candy. Can we not have a decent, legitimate discussion without half of you making yourselves look utterly like retarded, wimpy bullsh!tting cry babies?

Yeah, we're probably getting screwed. We probably aren't. Stop trying to scream over a keyboard. It doesn't make your point any more important then the next idiot's.

Another fool

Are you Kidding me. I guess you love pork. 12 Fk'n senaters got a deal for their states because the bill was a piece of crap.

My God! All of the downright lies in here. Have you no shame or are you so stupid as to believe and repeat every lie you hear? Despite what many of you may think, Sean, Rush, Glenn and Bill are NOT wise sages. They are actors that are highly paid to stir up a big pot of steaming crap. The more stink generated, the higher the pay. Telling the truth or facts is not one of the qualifications for the job.

Actually glad to see the bill finally pass the Senate. The combination between the House and Senate will be very tricky. But I think at the end of the day we should have a great case for Single Payer. Take for example the mandate for large corporations to pay a fine of $750/employee if the corporation does not offer a health care plan for employees. That $750/employee fine is saying a fundamental health care plan should cost about $750. I expect to see large corporations flock to this option or buy a minimum policy for their eimployees to meet federal requirements equal to the $750 fine/employee. Corporations will either pass the savings on to profits and shareholders or increase employee wages or a combination of both. So this will benefit the corporation, get the insurance companies approximately 30 million more customers, and still provide the insurance companies a market to offer supplemental insurance to the fundamental programs. Even with a single payer - private insurance companies are not left out - take Tri-care for example. Tricare is the military version of health care insurance for active duty, guard, reserve, and retired military members. The government contracts wth private insurance to cover regions in the United States. I fall in the Western Division. So for $465/year I get prime coverage with $20 copays. If I want prescriptions for free...I fill them at the military base. Otherwise I choose the doctor I want in-system for best value; out of system if I am willing to pay the difference.

Anyway, I can't wait to see how large corporations are going to react to this new legisation. And, what leg will the Union's have to stand on when large corporations limit health care coverage to the minimum. I think that's progress. If you want more than the minimum - then YOU get to pay for it.

Your kind of hilarious in that you say the republican party is the one with the ties to wall street, the lawyers, big pharma, unions, etc. Do you not know which party represents these corrupt organizations? I'll give you a hint, this party has made a deal behind closed doors with big pharma in the past few months, they have made secret deals with the unions so that they wouldn't get their big Cadillac health care plans taxed, they bribed senators with our taxpayer money, they made deals with the insurance giants to lobby for their health care bill, they have one of their own party members in cahoots with wall street and making sure they keep their big bonuses...times up!!dingdingding THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

There are going to be a lot of people paying fines because they are out of work and will be for several years to come including me. It just seems insane to me that your going to fine someone because they can't afford something.

Merry Christmas to our President's ego. The only thing you guys are missing is a gun and a mask.

Thanks alot, buddy. Here's a lump of coal for you and your bedmate Harry.

It's sad that we can build new hospitals & give Iraqi's & Afghans better health care but refuse to provide better health care for the citizens of this country. The only ones that win are the special interests & the politicians who voted w/ them & against real HCR. Both parties share the blame. We desrved better!!!

Listening to Reid, Dodd et al yesterday afternoon made me nauseous. Big friggin egos...big friggin change. What's the next unread bill to be passed? Tea Party...you lookin' mighty good!

Gramps

We don't agree on much, but on this we do. You can not call this universal health care as the article states. They were suppose to "reform" health care. I am truly afraid that this may truly be the single worse piece of legislation ever written.

I would have liked a passage where they reward people who live and practice healthy lifestyle by lowering premiums every year. Eating healthy, maintain a normal weight and exercise regularly. I can't count how many times I see people come into the ER for preventable diseases that can be avoided by taking care of themselves. (for example, 400lbs man with backpain, alcoholic with liver failure, type II diabetic who eats fastfoods everyday, or a smoker with COPD.)

Auto insurance companies reward good drivers, why not health insurance too.

It's a start. If 30 million Americans (10%!) can get affordable insurance, who were unable to before, it's a start.

I'm not sure everyone realizes that they are currently paying for all of the uninsured Americans, through income tax. People act as if the current health care system doesn't cost us anything. Despite the costs of this reform, it will need to be weighed against the cost of supporting the millions of uninsured, the cost of hundreds of thousands of foreclosures due to medical bills, etc.

There will be tweaks and amendments, and we're still hoping the House can convince the Senate that the public option will help to keep costs competitive. One thing all American patriots can agree upon, is that we hope this bill improves this country, and the quality of life for Americans. Whether or not we supported it, now that's about to be signed into law, we can all hope that it does at least some of the things it's supposed to do, to make our country stronger.

Hey, Gramps.

A tourniquet and a saw equates to better health care in Iraq. It's much harder to improve on the best health care in the world. Our biggest problem is too many lazy bums in this country looking for handouts.

don't get to friendly with gramps, i've read some of his posts. i submit he's nothing but a closet liberal

Thorndawg:

You must be real proud of the #37 ranking health care system in this country. I don't care how you look at it, #37 does NOT equal the best health care in the world.

Dcisshovelready:

I hope we can both agree on wishing each other a Merry Christmas. I hope you & your loved ones will have a Happy & Healthy New Year as well.

I'm going to name my lump of coal BARRY.

Hey Smokie; You were screwed before you were conceived,ask your momma! The NEOCONS have been giving you a perpetual REPLAY and evidently, YOU like it! What's up with that??? LOL

What a bunch of mewling, jealous crybabies you lazy piles of crap liberals are.

"If you make $200k and up, you're getting what you deserve???!?!?!?!"

What an uneducated heap of dung you must be, that someone ELSE earning what in major metro areas is an upper middle class living supporting a family, has you so jealous and greedy for THEIR money to pay YOUR way.

I actively despise liberals at this point, and am done trying to talk sense into any of you leeches.

Instead, all further energy I expend, which is NOT inconsiderable, will be focused on getting every one of these shysters, liberals first and FOREMOST, OUT of office.

If You make $200,000 are up a year... Your finally getting what You deserve!!! The People & Small Business are the real winners...

They'll just reprice their products so that you pay for it instead. That's my plan anyway. MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Gramps......First Merry Christmas to you and your family! Second, you will see what this travesty really is......

"Senator Reid's health care bill increases premiums for families and small businesses, raises taxes during a recession, cuts seniors' Medicare benefits, adds to our skyrocketing debt, and puts bureaucrats in charge of decisions that should be made by patients and doctors," he said. "The bill also authorizes taxpayer-funded abortions, violating long-standing federal policy. It's no coincidence that the more the American people learn about this monstrosity, the more they oppose it."

All it REALLY does is pentalize ALL Americans. Yes, it provides healthcare to those who can't afford it.......but don't you think that JUST taking care of the 10 - 15 million who are supposedly REALLY uninsured would have been better??

What this legislation is REALLY about is CONTROL over the masses! I'm sure you've heard this before, but I'll say it again......COST is what needed reform, and this beast IS NOT the answer!

I pray that this bill sees UNPRECIDENTED issues, troubles, and fiscal woes!

Can you say REPEAL.....throw out all who voted for it...........impeach the guilty "owner" who passes this without a veto? YES, can't wait till 2010, & 2012!

The Senate Republicans can now go home for a long overdue enema.

What a great day.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Just what Obama wants....total failure ! total collapse ! total destruction of our economy , so he can usher in his Shadow Government and turn us in to what he wants , a Muslim Socialist State.

LOL! Yeah, I picked up my burka today.

If you're so worried about inflation, you should go buy some gold bullion! You could be rich!!! Here's the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJtr91OuyF0

If you aren't rich get ready to bend over and grab your ankles if this Frankenstein monster of a bill becomes law.

No I'm not a Tea Bagger. Opposite end of the spectrum altogether. I'd like to see a completely government funded and regulated Single Payer system like most of the rest of the industrialized world has had for 40 or so years.

Forcing millions of Americans to buy private insurance with no serious mandate for the industry to make it affordable is NOT "universal healthcare" it's a a massive give a way to the insurance industry at the public's expense (And much of the public is already broke financially already).

We need a new progressive/left wing movement in this country that is completely separate from and does not depend on the Democratic Party. Whether it's a Republican or a Democrat in office they do pretty much the same thing because their careers are being funded by the same people...big corporations. They need "street heat" to make them do the right thing. Nixon got behind and signed much more progressive legislation than either Bill Clinton or his clone Barack Obama.

That wasn't because Dicky boy was a nice guy progressive guy, it was because he was afraid not to sign the Endangerd Species Act the Clean Water Act, etc as he did because of the reaction of the Left/progressive forces which were popular and strong then.

Maybe after we have to endure the fall-out from the Democrat's "health care reform" and the bail out of the banks and the two wars still going on people will wise up.

Stranger things have happened!

The straw that broke the camels back. Today marks the true beginning of socialism and the bankruptcy of the United States of America. As of today the government is no longer united with its people.

The republican response offers valuable insights into the standard rhetorical rationale for equating "brain death" with the G.O.P, striking at the heart of its identity.

The standard justification, which I call the ‘standard paradigm’, holds that Govt. is selling the country, Govt. is socialist, Govt. is everything frightening since they woke up on any particular day, marking the end of their known way of life in America.

Fueled by the likes of 'limbaaaah', Oreealaaally and the Sean Amityville horror show, a remarkable integrative unity of their body of knowledge is indicated.

In my response to writers, Smokie-788412, Joe Biff (we hate in others what we have in our selves), Thorndawg…and other G.O.P contributors, too many to mention here, I offer a couple of examples of how their mindset has the country in a situation where we have to undo the mess they left us with.

A republican senator stated on the congress site - 'GOD forgive me for sending the children to Iraq'. This administration is trying to bring them back to the tune of war drums first; 'shall not cut and run', then, palling with terrorists etc

Then, they hand over an economy that has fallen off the cliff on their watch and their violent rejection to a bailout is epic.

G.O.P Take a clue. Since 1912, today's passage is historical. It potentially could be tough medicine but key word here is 'medicine'. With tweaking here and there as more data is acquired, it, like the bailout, could usher in a new era of having turned the corner.

You share so much online of your opposition. Mouths runneth over and nothing substantive but everything parochial. The other day, one of you articulated he couldn't wait till someone did something awful. There would be a party at his place. This from the party the follows GOD? One of HIS commandments - Though shall not kill.

Brief summary. Proffer your own blueprint for what you would have. The two bills can be put up against each other and a valid conclusion reached instead of tenaciously clinging to fox bile and cheer leading from the safety of mediocre lives.

All those "town hall" meetings that were held this summer were such a frickin waste of time!!! The American public said they didn't want this; now we have a government that can't even manage their own conceit and unbelievable ill-morals 'managing' our "health". Do they even have to participate in this stupid bill or are they "exempt" from their own ineptness?

What I want to know is how much money Dodd and others are getting??? Money is being filtered to them from Insurance and Medical companies. They always manage to line their pockets.

Angry is a mild way of stating the emotion I feel right now!!!

If it's not the same healthcare package they give themselves....screw them.

It is a shame that Republicans cannot believe in the message of Jesus Christ even at Christmas. They are always harping about "family values" but they clearly don't believe in them. Jesus said, "Heal the sick" in case you all don't know it. If you do not believe in your Christian duty to ensure that everyone has quality health care, then you need to re-examine the state of your relationship with Christ.

The only negotiations that went on during the formulation of this bill was between the Democrats. They were concerned with their special interest groups and making sure that their was plenty of pork to go around.

Isn't interesting how the Dem's brag that "Both bills would extend health insurance to more than 30 million more Americans" yet fails to mention that it adds 30 Million by requiring them to BUY a policy, big whoop thats "reform" you can believe in.

Lies, lies & more lies! Obama and Reid lied, and Pelosi was the only one who made it clear from the beginning in her, "we're in charge now and this will pass" comment after the election.

Obama lied about deficit nuetral, no pork (earmarks) and it will benefit all of us, unless of course you rely on medicare...then bend over and grab your ankles.

Reid just plain screwed us by "buying votes" to get passage...More lies.

Rest easy America, your self-centered, egotistical, want to get re-elected regardless congressmen and women are going to be hard at work covering their butts so you will be proud of them.

I am sick at heart, disgusted! This is not the democratic process I spent 27 years of my life defending.

Wake up America!!! We have just seen what this process has now become.

Straight from the CBO letter to Senator Reid regarding their error in the estimate of the deficit reduction relating to the Senate Bill just passed...

"Based on this extrapolation, CBO expects that Medicare spending under the legislation would increase at an average annual rate of roughly 6 percent during the next two decades—well below the roughly 8 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades (excluding the effect of establishing the Medicare prescription drug benefit). Adjusting for inflation, Medicare spending per beneficiary under the legislation would increase at an average annual rate of roughly 2 percent during the next two decades—well below the roughly 4 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades. It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or would reduce access to care or diminish the quality of care."

SO the CBO is saying that in order for their budget estimates to be correct, the growth in medicare enrollment and spending would have to be 1/2 of what it has been historically over the past 20 years. This we know will not happen as this bill will increase enrollment in medicare. Second, the CBO is saying that in order to get this growth rate slowed in spending, either access to care could decrease or decrease the quality of care to achieve the desired results when the more efficient cost cuts cannot be made.

THis is right from the CBO. We are getting screwed under this. I hope you all have a Merry Christmas this year as we will not be able to afford gifts to our families in future years!

Rumor has it the Democrats are going to make -

ABORTION ILLEGAL

They need to increase the number of TAX PAYERS to cover this mess !

Don't you love it when a liberal tries to twist Jesus into being pro-socialism?

As an agnostic, I find it laughable when either side tries to twist religion up to justify their political bullcrap. While I laugh at the far-right Republicans who hypocritically holler for smaller government while simultaneously wanting to use government as a tool to force people's personal choices like abortion and marriage into their religious cube, I find it even funnier when liberals do it.

It's hollow, obvious and stupid. Because these are the SAME people that want all signs of Christianity taken out of public spaces, who want the word "God" taken out of the pledge, and DEMAND that a jihadist that kills 13 people in cold blood be given the "benefit of the doubt".

I laugh at the lot of you. At least the far-right lunacy is largely self-sustaining, and not looking to steal from their fellow Americans via government fiat in the form of an entitlement.

You should all be ashamed.

December 24, 2009, the day our nation fell and crumbled. Do you ever think obama and the democrats will ever apologize to us?

Rhonda;

If you believe the whole Bible it also says "If you don't work you don't eat." But people like you just believe the parts that are favorable to "your" argument.

People like you! Famous words of someone with a lot to say that doesn't even make sense to them. Pray do tell, what did Rhonda say or do that affronted you so?

This is christmas time. A time for good will and no deceiving. If salvageable, stay away from Fox - nothing to see here. Let's keep moving people to appropriate iq ranges.

This is a helmet free zone. Keep it so, now you've seen yourself in print. Only grownups allowed.

...tut tut tut...hold that righteous indignation and that thought. They do let one know you have stayed away from the light, or your brain has at any rate.

It's a sad day when our Representatives no longer represent us.

You do not have to be a Republican to see how expensive and dangerous the new health care legislation really is. My grandchildren and their children will be paying for this unconstitutional piece of trash. The majority of the American people both Democratic and Republican did not want this bill. As a Democrat, I will be voting with the Republicans to rid ourselves of as many Democrats as possible in 2010 and beyond. Americans must regain control of their country.

I'm disappointed in the blue-dog Democrats, Lieberman, and the republic party. We only got about half of what was needed. This is the result of obstructionism. The republics called it Obama's Waterloo. They had absolutely no intention of negotiating in good faith. There are parts of this bill that I don't like. Some are good.

Thanks to the C-Street gang.

Seems like all men are not created equal, all except those exempt in Nebraska on carying their fair share of taxes to pay for this bill...

The methods that gained passage of the Senate bill should be a shameful message of how this country is truly run. The Administration condemns lobbyists but when the Senate does the very same thing with your money its called leadership. Please liberals, tell me the difference here???

This country should not accept the immoral and unethical methods in Washington, no matter what bill is being worked on. Our country is sadly broken when this behavior is accepted as the norm. We need government reform...

we are not getting screwed big time yet - now we just have to sit back and wait for everything to get started while the f'ing scummy politicians bargain for this and that that only benefits them in the long run

it is no different than what the bush regeime did for 8 years, i.e., the bridge to nowhere and other total f-ups that passed under that damn fool

considering i am a free thinker and an independent i personally think both bush and obama purely suck as leaders and both congresses, under bush and obama were no damn different - they are all corrupt as hell and need to be voted out - starting with illegal aliens deserve to live here too, pelosi - the fool who cares more about her precious illegals more than united states citizens

i have had it

To hell with this! I will not pay and I will not participate. Do what you will to me, send me to prison, if you can. I have been a contributor to the economy all of my life, and never have taken anything from the government. But no more, now I will be as big a burden as I can and will contribute as little as possible. Mandatory health premiums are slavery, which I will not abide.

Do they even have to participate in this stupid bill or are they "exempt" from their own ineptness?

Of course they are exempt. They have their own excellent health care plan. They don't care what happens to us, their lowly peons. My representatives do NOT represent me or any of the other constituents. It is time for a revolution.

Another article from the AP telling the people we won't have to worry about preexisting conditions anymore, but they fail to say that is providing you live long enough for the benefits to finally kick in four years from now.

I think the people might also be interested to know exactly which Medicare benefits will be cut to eliminate $500 billion from the current Medicare program.

I believe we need health care reform, but bribing a few Senators to get their vote, and not addressing tort reform in the health bill is just criminal.

I suspect there will be many angry people when the finally realize they're paying new taxes next year for a Democrat bill that won't help anyone until 2014, and lets not forget all those young votes who loved Obama in 2008, might not be so happy when the find out they must purchase heath insurance or face fines and/or jail. Looks like a couple bad election cycles coming for Democrats.

I think that the ultimate goal of this bill was to pass something that the Democrats wanted, but was so ultimately watered down that the Republicans could live with it. The GOP has been so Hellbent on opposing it that they seem to fail to see that it helps their own goals, or rather the goals they had before it passed. Now that it has passed, and since it was supposed to be essentially a way to LIMIT Health Care Companies from overcharging and underproviding, and after we had the language it turns out that it will make them even more capable and profitable, that now the GOP can t(f)ake a principled stance against it and come out the heroes. It's nice that someone's finally done SOMETHING to shake up our horrible health care system (the system itself, not the practice), but this bill seems to ultimately corporatize our country even further.

Yes, there shall be some serious Senate-and-House-cleaning in 2010. Get out those dust mops, brooms and then, head down to your polling place. Mark that calender.

Rhonda-311319,
Jesus did not say rob from your neighbors to pay for healing the sick. I'm not saying we shouldn't help the sick, but you don't hurt someone else to do it. You don't force someone to help. You don't force your sense of morality on others. I think this bill sucks. Merry Christmas to us all!

We're going to save $130B over the next 10 years (WOW)- Obama, gives that much away every day ! Where's the savings? How much is being given to illegals or fair weather friends? How much and how many bribes of the congressman and congresswomen took place ?Will Pelosi be put on a fuel allowance for her plane, to help out the taxpayers?

Congratultions BO thanks to you and the sell SOB dumocrates I would say that I believed your Rev. Wright but what the dumocrates have done to this country I no longer believe there is a God just a devil and he resides in the White House.

You don't hear or read the Health Insurance companies complaining do you?

Think about this people! How is this going to be enforced. Police will be able to stop any person, at any time, and at any place and ask to see their health care insurance card. IRS will require the health insurance account number on the 1099 forms.

Failure to have proof of a valid insurance card will make you a Federal criminal Felon with loss of voting rights, loss of right to own or bear firearms, loss of employment, loss of credit, your pictures and fingerprints in the FBI and Homeland Security files, and possible denial of visas to travel to foriegn countries.

Give them back what they give you. Even it out and do it legal.

If you are mandated by law to buy insurance or become a Federal criminal Felon then get sick. Use the darn plans. Make sure that you go to a doctor for every little pain you may have everytime. Cost them over and over. Unemployed...get sick. Foreclosed...get sick. Low credit score...get sick! Low wages...get sick!

Since the whole idea is for 30,000,000 people who are not insured to be forced to pay to become insured by private "for profit" companies, then let 30,000,000 new insured people get sick over and over during the year.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE MADE TO PAY BY THE LAW THEN GET YOUR MONEY'S WORTH BY THE LAW!

I remember reading today in the Sioux Falls Argus Leader that someone was wondering what Senator Tim Johnson's payoff was and then I remembered his son Brendon Johnson got a Federal Attorney Seat of some sort, so we now know what Johnson sold the people that were supposed to be able to trust him out for. A good paying job for his son and the State of South Dakota will pay the price of his bribe. Godd job BO bribes or threats for all business as usual so much for change.

TO ALL OF YOU POLITICAL WHACKOS.

I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

And may God Bless you and the greatest country in the world, America!

"bid time" huh?

Pelosi and conference committee members, if you change the senate bill very much the compromise bill will likely not pass the senate. don't screw it up

why is it that the other Western countries can provide health care that is the same or in some aspects better than ours, but at a much cheaper price?

The Democrats have been having Wett Dreams about the day when they have complete control for 4 decades. Now they have it. It will take another 4 decades to recover from their reckless spending of the past 10 months. The American Public needs to remember why we have not allowed this to happen since Johnson and make sure it never happens again!

I charged so much to my credit cards this year that I've been having problems paying my mortgage. So I went out this week and bought a Mercedes! That'll reduce my deficit...

I'll let you know how it works out.

Just a few points;

Democrats claim that this will prevent people from filing bankruptcy, but 85% pf people who file already have medical insurance, so I doubt this will change significantly under the new bill.

It's incorrect that these 30 million Americans that lack health insurance don't have health care - they already have health care because our hospitals are forbidden to deny care based on ability to pay - they go to emergency rooms and pay out of pocket, or just don't pay the bill.

The "penalty" for young people to go without insurance will be so much lower than the premiums that they will still go without insurance for many years to come (unless they get seriously sick, of course - then they'll join and we pay the extra cost).

They claim premiums will go down, but everyone knows the premiums for everyone will increase significantly because it requires coverage for "pre-existing conditions". You can't increase costs for insurance companies and expect them not to pass that added cost on to everyone.

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) just admitted that the Democrats counted the "savings" from Medicare twice, which means that, instead of being "deficit neutral", this bill will significantly ADD to the deficit.

The former Director of the CBO admitted that their 10 year "projections" are essentially "useless" because of too much uncertainty, and are almost invariably grossly understated on "deficits".

Since the Trustee's Report for Medicare and the Social Security programs, the only large government run programs now in existence (until now), recently reported that the Unfunded Liability of these two programs is now well in excess of $100 Trillion (twice the net worth of ALL of America), anybody that thinks their taking over another one-sixth of the economy is a good thing needs to reconsider their thought processes.

Since the increase in the National Debt is far greater than any increase in the "deficit" because of accounting gimmickry, this will increase the National Debt by perhaps as much as $2 Trillion over 10 years.

Congratulations on the "Change you can believe in".

Come on people...let's be positive about this. There are some good points. After all, the taxes start right away once Obama sign's it into law, and 4-5 years from now the health care part starts.

Another good point is people should plainly see that our politicians couldn't care less what we want or have to say about things, they know better than we do.

One more good point, it was plainly obvious to all Americans how their government currently works......bribes and payoffs for votes.

Personally, I am feeling really good about the 2010 elections. I know I am looking for one thing on the ballot....."I" for Incumbent.....if they have and "I" beside their name....I am voting for the other person...no matter what they stand for or believe. Nothing could possibly be worse than what we have now.

this would be a great time to be in the stock market buying stock from the health care industry..they can not lose...congress has said so and they should know...the health care industry wrote a lot of this bill with the money they handed out to our elected and their parties.

Rhonda,

Jesus said if your enemy is cold, give him your coat, if he his hungry give him something to eat. He told rich people to sell all that they had and give it to the poor. He never once passed a law to require money to be taken from one person and give it to another. Your instructions on who to give to, when to give and how much are to come from him, not government. This legislation makes government a god. I don't think He would like that to good, because He is very jealous of where your loyalties are.

This isn't a health care bill. This is a mandatory insurance bill. The only beneficiaries are insurance companies and their stockholders.

Insurance is a government sanctioned form of gambling where you bet something bad that requires the insurance company to pay off is going to happen to you, and the insurance company is betting it won't. Like gambling in Vegas, the system is setup so the insurance company wins its bets more often than it loses. This sort of gambling is a fool's bet. Government requiring us to play under penalty of fines and prison means they think we are smarter than a fool, and thus have to be forced to make a fool's bet.

The bill is all about getting the financial structure into place. It doesn't matter if there is anyone who recieves better care or easier access. It is all whether the government can get control of more money to spend at will. It has worked so well for medicare and social security. There are no trust funds and they want even more to waste on giving their donors cushy government jobs. This will only leave each of us who pays any taxes at all even less for ourselves. If the government didn't take so much from us to begin with, fewer people would need the crumbs that fall from the feast at the government table we are paying for. It wil be stunning if many leave the country because of such run amok taxes like they leave the high tax deficit ridden states to those with more respect for their citizens. I wish I could name the song, but the main line in the lyrics is"tax the rich, feed the poor til there are no rich no more" Then who will these leeches in DC bleed for their coffers to fund their own elaborate lives while the country's future dies in the field.

Lets see, we are adding 30 million people to health care with the associated expenses but we are cutting the deficit by 130 billion. Something just does not compute especially when the numbers last month said this plan would add 1.3 trillion to the deficit. Wish I could get away with using the feds accounting methods when I do my taxes I would always get back more than I paid in. In fact I would become independently wealthy in only one or two years.

You must be real proud of the #37 ranking health care system in this country. I don't care how you look at it, #37 does NOT equal the best health care in the world.

The #37 ranking is based on measurements that in many cases are unrelated to the health care system. 25% of the WHO score is based on "healthy life expectancy" -- that is, the average number of years people live without getting sick. In the US we have a much higher rate of homicide and accidental deaths than the top 36 countries, and the victims are overwhelmingly young and healthy. For this reason, the 'average US life expectancy' is lower than in those other countries. This has nothing to do with access to health care. Furthermore, heart disease is the great killer of Americans, striking us at earlier ages and much higher prevalences than elsewhere. This is because as a nation, we eat too much garbage and we get fatter and fatter. This has nothing to do with health care, it's a matter of diet and exercise.

If you take out homicide and traffic accident deaths from the calculation, Americans have one of the highest life expectancies anywhere, despite being a buch of sick fatasses.

Another 25% is based on "fairness" -- in other words, if rich people are ABLE to buy better care than everyone else gets, your score goes down. It doesn't matter if the care is lousy, as long as everyone in the country gets the same thing and you CAN'T buy better care, you get a perfect score. That doesn't rate quality of care at all, it only rates the level of government control over health care.

why is it that the other Western countries can provide health care that is the same or in some aspects better than ours, but at a much cheaper price?

They are not providing long-term care to millions of fat, old people with diabetes and heart disease. That is probably the single largest reason. Heath insurance reform will not change this, only convincing people to change their lifestyle will. Nor are they providing expensive, lifesaving care to victims of traumatic injuries like gunshots and car crashes at the rate we are. Again, this is a lifestyle issue and not a health care issue.

To all that support passage of this bill...

Please explain to me why, if it is as great as you believe, that Congress is exempt from this HC/insurance scam.

Also, if you truly believe it is so great, call, write, fax, email your representatives and insist they sign up just like us average citizens. Do you really believe you are so far below them as a citizen of this country that it's ok for them to have something better than what they offer you?

What a lot of people are missing with this bill is that 53 million people aren't getting healthcare----they're being TOLD to buy it or get fined if you don't. IF they can't afford it, it'll be subsidized by the government. You're being told that if you can afford it---you HAVE to buy it. The government is telling you how to spend your money or a part of it. If you cut 500 billion from Medicare and use it for healthcare reform, all you've done is take money from your right hand and put in in your left. It's a simple tranfer of funds from the elderly to the poor? They could have simply raised the guide lines for Medicaid to include more people or simply insured those who don't have insurance. Instead, they dumped the whole apple cart. We're being sucked into this thing like it or not. Personally, I was fine myself with exactly what I had. Now, I have to worry about the spillover of what's being done and how it will affect me. It creates problems for those who didn't have any. Right now, the congress is just sticking it's nose into everything it can and no one can dispute that congresse's approval rating is dismal. Does anyone believe that 53 million people are going to be insured and it's going to be deficit or debt neutral??? If it is, it'll be because they cut the heck out of everything else. Eveything has a price. We just haven't paid for this one yet.

This is NOT universal health care, or National health care or socialism etc. This is a big give a way to the health insurance industry. Check out this excerpt from an article on the WSWS website:

US Senate bill advance sparks health care stock rally

By Kate Randall

24 December 2009

Health care company shares rose sharply this week, with the Senate health care bill poised for a final vote and passage Thursday morning. The stock market rally offered one more indication that the Obama-sponsored legislation—far from offering relief from health care hardships for ordinary Americans—will boost the giant insurers’ and pharmaceuticals’ profits, and that the industry and Wall Street are keenly aware of this fact.
The health care sector has conducted a concerted effort over the past year to ensure that the legislation is crafted in its interests, with spending by an estimated 3,300 lobbyists expected to top $1 billion for the past two years. (See “Health care profiteers: A billion-dollar industry”) The industry has been handsomely rewarded with a bill that will deliver millions of new cash-paying customers to private insurers, while placing virtually no limits on what the insurance companies can charge.
At the same time, any fears on the part of private insurers that the final Senate bill would contain a government-run “public option” were put to rest when Senator Joseph Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, threatened to withhold his critical vote if it were included; the measure was summarily dumped. Although the public option would have at best provided only a fig leaf of reform to an otherwise reactionary piece of legislation, the insurance industry was vehemently opposed to any measure representing even the hint of a threat to its profits.
Following the 60-40 vote early Monday morning to end debate on the bill—averting a Republican filibuster and clearing the way for its passage—a number of health care stocks saw considerable gains. That day the Standard and Poor’s Managed Health Care index rose 4.6 percent and the S&P Healthcare Index was up 1.4 percent, while the Morgan Stanley Healthcare Payors stock index rose 3.6 percent.

Merry Christmas, thank you God that we are finally getting a health care bill. Reminds me of the medicare bill, Republicans were against it, but where would our senior citizens be today without it?

Flag waver, I hope you have insurance because you'll pay a pretty penny getting it. Are you talking about the Medicare bill from memory or are you just stating what you think??

This is certainly historic, just like Pearl Harbor.

Hey annoyed citizen,

Those town hall meetings were a waist of time because all of you Tea Party people wouldn't stop shrieking long enough to listen to what the rest of us want. Just because you yell loudest doesn't make you right.

just wait until they start decreasing the amount paid to health care providers. a whole lot of doctors will go to the patient pay method and you will have to fight with your insurance company for repayment and over the difference. many doctors are starting the practice now. pay up front a fee to be accepted into their practice then you also dicker with your own insurance. i can see hospitals doing the same thing. i just had some tests done and the hospital wanted my form of payment for the deductable and amount not covered by insurance before i was allowed to have the tests.

So glad you have great insurance and think our health care system is the greatest . . . maybe it would have been a better bill if the Republicans hadn't obstructed it completely . . . they don't give a hoot about the American people, only protecting the big corporations that fund their re-elections. Their only goal is not anything for the American public, but to get back in power . . . they are ruthless, when are you all going to wise up!

To all of those bringing up Jesus, just remember that ConservaPedia is rewriting the Bible to get rid of all of the Liberal and non-free market things that Jesus said. Basically - the New Testament. I don't know why, if they're only going to use the Old Testament, that they don't just all convert to Judaism.

Misguided/Cinico, 53 million people have to go out and PURCHASE health insurance. Who benefits from that----not the Republicans. Try the health care insurance folks. If they were as pro-business as some people think, they wouldn't be opposing this bill. My friend, the Dems crafted this bill, they pushed it through despite 100% Republican opposition and 61% public opposition. Them's the facts Jack. Don't blame GWB, the Republicans, Chavez, or anyone else. Put it right on BO and the Democratic partie's shoulders. First, this bill/law hasn't withstood legal challenge yet---that's coming. IF it survives all of that, most of it doesn't go into effect until after BO's gone. Great, we'll pass the thing, but we won't take the heat when it crumbles? One quick statement. BO raised more money in his campaign than any other candidate in history AND he spent every dime of it AND it wasn't nickle and dime stuff from Ma and Pa. Who funds who for election??

Well the article had one thing correct" This will define the 2010 elections for the Democrats and the 2012 re-election bid for Obama. Both can kiss their overpaid and under worked jobs goodbye.

Hopefully in 2013 with a new Congress and POTUS we can get this economic nightmare over turned. That is is if someone doesn't take this to the United States Supreme Court and get it overturned before then.

What they passed and Obama will soon sign into law was not health care reform and to be honest there were some good parts of the bill that did reflect reform. On the whole what they passed will increase the cost of health care to those who have it so that those who don't will. What they passed gives a person no freedom of choice except which plan to go bankrupt trying to pay for or pay an increasing fine if they don't! What they passed gives no incentives to stay healthy by exercise and proper diet and actually with the Medicare cuts takes away those incentives for seniors.

While we celebrate the holidays, our congress does this? What is wrong with this oh so very common process?

This reminds me of mandatory volunteering.

Before we started seeing the facts of this bill, we thought we were getting screwed. Now, we know we are. It's being written that the insurance industry has had it's nose in the bill since day one and successfully challenged any and all items that would hurt their profits. They and Wall st. know that millions of people will have to purchase insurance. Yeah, they have to insure high risk individuals, but at what price. 6 or 7 grand a year for health insurance will put a serious dent in a lot of family incomes. Remember, if you can afford it, you MUST buy it. Universal healthcare and socialized medicine it ain't. Think of it this way. The AMA, health insurers, hospitals, now have 53 million more paying customers. Ya-hoo!

Wow doing something on a day they know no one would be paying attention that is what they wanted. Oh it is time to do something and fight for our own freedoms... The America as we know it is not going to be the same and we still have 3 years, 5 days with the mistake of Mr. Obama

It's about time the Gastric Old Poops "DIDN'T" get their way. I am glad the Senate passed the bill, even though I do not like it in its current form, but...after reconciliation, I hope that the bill comes out with a public option, NO SUBSIDIES for the pharma, insurance or Hospital corps. Either limit the Nations health insurers to 10% Profits or create a medicare buy-in and force them to compete. If they don't like it, let them off-shore their products like manufacturers did and they can sale thier crap to others around the world....WAIT, others around the world have better healthcare than us. 37 nations do. Hmmmm, what will United Healthcare and Aetna do?

CYBT Post 2.79
It was the republicans that set the vote deadline. Also, Obama is in office until the 20th of January. Your math doesn't work unless it is that "No-Child-Left-Behind" math.

If it's not a government run health care option available for the low-income people we're getting screwed because there is no other option that can mean inform. Individuals who can afford their own insurance should be able to have the choice can keep their private insurance.

The only thing we can really hope is that some really smart lawyer will actually challenge the constitutionality of this POS legislation, because if you really think about it, this cant be constitutional, at least not in the way that our forefathers envisioned our country. But of course its been along time since any of our elected officials actually cared about the constitutionality of anything they have tried to do.

And you are correct you choose to drive a car.

Since when do liberals give a $hit about the constitution?

It also seems likely that insurance companies will raise their rates to accomodate the increases expected to cover pre-existing conditions. I heard yesterday that "cadillac" insurance plans will be levied an additional tax. That is - all insurance EXCEPT those offered by the labor unions.

I hope you are right and the unconstitutionality of this bill can be properly demonstrated.

I want to be there when your real smart lawyer comes to tell mr Obama, a magna cum laude graduate of Harvard law school, with a doctorate in constitutional law, that this bill is unconstitutional, I really do. Outta be good for a few laughs.

But everyone has a life and if we are REQUIRED to insure our property (houses, cars) with the prospect of jail, fines and other losses for not doing so.... is not a life (read: health) at least as important as the property it (the life) acquires?

Okay pete just because he has a doctorate in it doesnt mean he actually knows what the constitution says. I know many people that have degrees in things and have their heads up their asses, kind of like our president and many of the so called congressman and senators.

And teach once again houses and cars are voluntary, and last i checked the only one you can get fined or jailed for is driving a car without insurance, that doesnt happen for a house.

I think someone better do some research, and it's you. You don't teach constitutional law for 12 yrs on an honorary doctorate.

I know many people as well who have their heads up their asses, like people spouting off about Obama having only an honorary doctorate before they check the facts, then changing their post to attempt to cover their tracks. Too late.

Where did is say he had an honorary doctorate, if you look at my posting i said that just because he has a doctorate doesnt mean he knows how to use it, so maybe you are the one the needs to get your head out of your ass.

UH, you changed your posting, and you are a liar. You publicly stated before changing it that he only had an honorary doctorate. Sucks to get caught eh? and you know you did it.

No pete look at the posting it says what it says, you are the liar, I think what you did was take my posting where I said just because he has a degree in it doesnt mean he knows how to apply it, but what ever it takes to get you through the night.

How do we know what he has for a degree ? last I heard, he had his "files" sealed. As far as I know he did not even attain a degree.

Where is the proof....for that matter, where is the proof that he is a natural born citizen of the United States ?

he is a total fraud

drbacon,

Since it was liberals who wrote the Constitution. Conservatives were still sipping tea with the Brits.

Freedom, I read it, replied to it, and meanwhile you changed your posting, end of story, you're just a typical uneducated, ill informned, knee jerk reactionary right winger, and a liar to boot. Typical. And Steve, I guess you could call Harvard up and ask them, as I'm sure it's no secret.

JK - that was a re-write of history. The liberals were the Tories who were sympathetic, and didn't mind the taxes and rule that England put on the US. The whole point of the US Constitution was to LIMIT the power of government. You cannot read the commentary of that day without understanding this.

The reason the Articles of Confederation failed was because they wanted a limited government. The states were at war between themselves with tariffs and duties. After a couple of years, they realized that the union was crumbling. We needed a stronger central government. They really only wanted the Government to regulate interstate trade, provide for defense, and negotiate treaties.

Curious.....True, not everyone has a car, but in this bill, you will pay a fine if you don't buy health insurance, unless you are POOR, then you will not be fined.........but you STILL won't have insurance.......But I thought..............never mind...

And those people who don't buy health insurance or pay a fine for not having it will do the same as they always have - go to the emergency room every time they have sneeze. And we will pay for that as we always have. Why don't they just provide health insurance for the poor and leave the rest of us alone? And how about a little tort reform? That would drive down the cost of medical care.

It would probably be cheaper for all of us if they did that instead of what they are doing.

OK, Get the facts right.

Obama attended Occidental for two years then transferred to and received a BA at Columbia. He then went to Harvard where, yes he did receive his Law Degree, Magna Cum Laude and was president of the Harvard Law Review.

He then taught at the University of Chicago Law School, not at Harvard. He was granted an HONORARY doctorate from Harvard in the spring of 2009, after becoming President, and that was highly controversial due to his position on abortion and as Harvard is a Catholic University.

It is interesting that it has been reported that no one at Harvard or his fellow students hardly, if even, remember him, but we'll assume that is a minor issue.

More to the point, as to Constitutional Law, simply because one studies a thing, does not mean one believes in that thing. On the contrary, Obama has stated (and that is on tape) that he believes the Constitution is deeply flawed and requires major overhaul. Oh, Pardon me, but I don't believe that is his prerogative except by proposing to Congress Amendment to the Constitution, yet, that is not the strategy they have taken because there is no way that they could gain the 2/3's majority required to change the Constitution to say that Health Care is a legal right as Harry Reid alluded. No, they have attempted to usurp the basis of the Constitution by backhanded legislation. Ultimately, if challenged by the States, as seems to gearing up, this law, if it goes forward, will be struck down, and all this effort and millions of dollars and time will be wasted, when honest, inclusive and equitable reform could have been sought.

No, this legislation is not about legal change. This and other attempts such as in the climate change debate are about POWER sought by the radical left, unions and special monied interests by the most cynical methods. They don't care if they break our backs from a fiscal standpoint ( take a look at California as a good example) and look on disdain at the American Middle class who will pay the price for this folly.

If Mr. Obama studied the Constitution, the lessons he took from it was how to get around it.

And those people who don't buy health insurance or pay a fine for not having it will do the same as they always have - go to the emergency room every time they have sneeze. And we will pay for that as we always have.

Uninsured are not the only ones going to the ER everytime they have sneeze, its the insured too. They are also the one of many reasons why premiums are so high. Instead of waiting to go see a doctor at a clinic or make an appointment for a condition they had for weeks, they rather go to the ER due to laziness. It will guarrantee that they will be seen that day even if it takes hours.

It's not very different from every American being required to pay income tax. In fact, there was a time when people were making the same argument, that the forced collection of Federal Income Tax, under the 16th Amendment, was unconstitutional, for a variety of reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

Since we've been paying Income Tax regularly since 1913 (and in a limited manner prior to that), we've all begun to accept the idea as normal. The idea of the Federal Government having everyone pay for insurance is not a new idea; in fact, the U.S. is the only modern industrialized world to NOT have a national health care system.

It just seems odd to us, because we've had a privatized health care system for so long. I expect that our grandchildren will see nothing unusual about a national health care system.

On another topic, any Constitutional scholar will agree that the U.S. Constitution, while brilliant, is indeed flawed. This is why it allows for Amendments. There is simply no way the framers, in their wisdom, could have anticipated the changes that occur over centuries.

For example, until after the Civil War, the Constituion not only legalized slavery, it forced all free states to return escaped slaves to their masters! Now in the 1780s, the idea of slavery was commonplace; they could never have foreseen that a time would come when the American people would damage equal rights for everyone. Heck, women's suffrage didn't even pass until the 20th century.

Some of the framers supported constant review and revision of the Constitution every 20 years or so, realizing that one document couldn't possibly be perfect enough to be left unchanged.

There is very little consequence for those who choose to not have car insurance. Why do you think we buy uninsured motorist. Now digest that for a second and get ready your going to be buying insurance for somebody else before all the smoke clears.

It is the only way to save money... If they get sick... It's the Insurance Compny that pays not the Tax Payer!!!

Hello

Where do you think the insurance company gets their money ? From the sky ?

Since it was liberals who wrote the Constitution. Conservatives were still sipping tea with the Brits.

Apples and oranges. Republicans freed the slaves; Democrats were the party of Jim Crow. Or did you forget that?

http://www.heritage.org/research/legalissues/lm0049.cfm

Why the Personal Mandate to Buy Health Insurance Is Unprecedented and Unconstitutional

clotho,

This is not national healthcare, there is no government option and there will not be. This is the federal government forcing us to purchase goods/services from a private company. That is unprecedented in the history of this country.

All the idiots that think this is FREE health care...WAKE UP! If you make enough money you WILL have to pay for it.....if not then you get to have your payments subsidized - then the REST OF US KEEP paying for you and your family - SORRY its NOT FAIR to the rest of us! EVERYONE will be paying more in taxes even those getting handouts because your sales and personal taxes will go up!

This will just encourage those living on handouts from the government to just keep doing so!

And - YES our government has failed us! They will no longer do what we want them to do, they're decisions will be what they think is best for us because we are too stupid to know what is best for ourselves! Just ask them!

Come on 2010 ..... we just need to vote out EVERYONE - Repubs & Demos and get in people that REALLY care about OUR COUNTRY!

Merry Christmas!

But everyone has a life and if we are REQUIRED to insure our property (houses, cars) with the prospect of jail, fines and other losses for not doing so.... is not a life (read: health) at least as important as the property it (the life) acquires? - Teach34181

You are wrong. We are not required to insure our property and cars by the government. In the case of our houses, you do not have to carry property insurance mandated by the government except for flood insurance if you live in a flood plain. Your bank that has lent you the money requires you to carry home owners insurance to procect their investement. You are required to insure your self from liability with liability auto insurance. This does not insure your property but the property of others which you could damage with your property. You could chose not to insure your home if you wish. The bank that has a mortgage on the property will force place insurance to pay off the loan if your house burns down but will not cover your personal property. If your house is paid off, then you don't have to carry any insurance on it. You can chose not to buy car insurance by not having a car. Millions of Americans live in urban cities and do not have cars and therefore do not have to have car insurance. I firmly believe it should be an individuals right to insure him/herself and their health but if the chose not to that is their choice. They have to then pay the health costs associated. I chose to cary insurance on myself because I do not want to be faced with the costs of not carrying insurance. I pay for it and foregoe other investements or purchases that I could use with that money. It is my choice. Now it will not be my choice.

The senate requires everyone to have health insurance and if not, they are fined. How IS THIS GOING TO WORK???? Just like here in California everyone is required to have car insurance, but 20 percent or 30 that daily drive in California are uninsured motorists. In fact, when you purchase car insurance, you have to pay for the uninsured motorists. I was hit by an uninsured motorist and it caused 6000.00 worth of damage, and guess what---they never did anything to the uninsured motorist. So, how is the government going to regulate health insurance??? Just like California regulates uninsured motorists???

drbacon

the liberals do not misuse the constitution. remember your hero, george the american idiot bush said it is only a god damn piece of paper and tried to destroy it - that s.o.b. used it as his own personal toilet paper while the citizens of this country lost a hell of a lot of rights - wake up fool

petey - big deal, obama was a community organizer - the last fool who was in the white house was the village idiot

But the frickin mr. obama and sell out dumocrates got one heck of a holiday bonus when they sold the American people out. I hope the people remember what they have done to us when re-election time comes.

This is the Obama screw American holiday present as he can't believe in God and screw the entire country this way, so we can't call it a Christmas present.

if everyone doesn't have health care insurance, then who should pay for who those don't have insurance (and are not wealthy) and need expensive medical treatment?

Well, look on the bright side; The people who are on Social Security Income won't have to worry about either problems, getting fined or going without. At least they're safe, right? Oh snap.

Dan-26... -

The Bush statement was made by Capital Hill Blue and has never been verified as actual. Capital Hill Blue is a non-profit organization that purports to be neutral and cutting edge. Their work does not stand when the whole picture is seen.

Doug asked:

if everyone doesn't have health care insurance, then who should pay for who those don't have insurance (and are not wealthy) and need expensive medical treatment?

Why no one of course. They just don't get the treatment if they can't pay for it. It is no different than not getting food at McDonalds if you can't pay for it, or not getting a haircut if you can't afford one.

We don't have a law that forces urban outdoorsmen to buy a house, and fines them if they don't. Why should it be any different with medical services? People get what they are willing to pay for in this world. No more, no less.

For health insurance to work, it needs to cover all and spread the cost over everyone. Right now the insurance companies cherry pick the healthy and leave the unhealthy to fend for themselves. Pooling all together will eventually bring costs down and cover everyone. We really need single payer . . . that is the shortest way to rein in costs, if it wasn't for Republicans protecting big Pharma, we might have a much better bill. Think about the whole boat which will eventually get costs under control and lower your costs. Give it a chance.

It always amazes me that people think there political party is better than the other and will go to any length to prove it. In the mean time, every politician from both both parties are just feeding the public of what it wants to hear and people fall for it every single time. What's the newest campaign gimmick out there that people are falling for is someone running for an office and they say, "I'm different because I'm not a politician" what a joke, looks at what there doing, there running for a political office, there a politician. What is the next biggest thing that people who belong to both parties fall for every election? They tell us were in need of a change and their the person to do it. What exactly changes? absolutely nothing. Maybe a few laws that the previous President signed will go but the next President from that party will just put those laws right back in.

I wouldn't count on that. Those dems are pretty crafty when it comes to pulling the wool over every ones eyes, as we've seen by the passage of this bill.

What Sen. Dobb should have said...We will always remember this day as "Mission Accomplished"!

Now that we have Socialized Medicine in our so-called Democracy, the medical community should investigate why Democrats consistently commit political suicide.

Wait to you see the bill these clowns have run up. Stimulus Bill - Cap and Tax - 100 Billion in global warming assistance to "poor countries" - now this.

G-man 65

You are soo niev to what is going on... some day you will relize it but then it will be to late

They don't even bother to pull the wool over a lot of peoples eyes, unless it is paid for by the taxpayers.

drbacon,

Another misstep on your part. Wasn't it Bush/Cheney who cost this country $1 trillion on their Iraq wet dream? That is what you get when Republicans control government: wars, debt, and corporate takeovers!

What does Bush have to do with the socialist takeover of healthcare and 1/6th of the economy? Stick with the script or shut your pie hole! Sick of hearing about Bush/Cheney, when most Americans would salivate at the thought of having Bush back in command.

when will idiots like you remember that all the democrats voted to go to war in iraq. but to a dumb liberal, that doesn't matter.

We can say GOODBYE Republicans... This will make 89 percent of the People happy!!!

We can say GOODBYE Republicans... This will make 89 percent of the People happy!!!

You think? Maybe this is why Obama is posting his lowest historical approval rating and that Republicans now show an 8-point lead on the generic congressional ballot?

Maybe you'll just claim voter fraud when the GOP cleans house in 2010.

Imk02

idk where you are getting your numbers... mabey the same place we found this idiot of ours known as are president (up your butt!)

JK you are as dumb as anyone that will argue your point. Bush was thief and a prick, Obama is a crook. What is the difference? You seem to be ok with the dems doing it but not repub’s???? The government Gestapo is all the same. They are on the same mission…….ME ME ME! You just need to open you eyes and see it for what it is. Step out of line for a minuet before you fall off the cliff. This government has not passed a bill that was not self serving for them and their campaign contributors EVER!!! This country needs campaign reform before anything else.

Whatever the case, it is embarrassing for a nation as great as ours to have so many people without health care. I certainly have my reservations about this bill, but there is no doubt in my mind that our nation needs an overhaul.

Once the air clears, and so many of you are proven wrong (mainly because the right has lied about so many things and you bought in hook line and sinker) Democratic poll numbers will start rising .. . mark my word!

Same crapola was spouted when Social Security pass passed and yet our country is still here.

Social security and medicare will be insolvent by 2017, so I fail to see your point.

Why don't you guys go out and steal Tiny Tim's crutch as an encore?

A sellout to private corporate interests. This is NOT government takeover of health care. This IS government transferring authority to private insurance companies by requiring the public purchase a product from a private for profit company. Private insurance companies will have authority over public citizens and no one has any choice but to pay these same corrupt insurance companies to control our health care.

Conservatives have been waving a paper bag and yelling "Booga Booga!" trying to convince us the threat is from the government control. The real threat has been sneaking up behind us which is the insurance companies themselves.

This is a government bailout of insurance companies by requiring everyone to buy their product and be their customers. This is a great day for the insurance companies.

That is the understatement of the day...

4 years of taxes, before a single new person is covered..

It is filled with bribes, pork, ear marks, 2000+ pages, most have not read... Doesn't matter if you listen to the right or the left... Only those who do not understand what just passed support this bill

The only ones looking for themselves are the Republicans... The American People paid for it out of Their Salary, Money Business Made or The Death Of A Love One!!!

The only ones looking for themselves are the Republicans...

Republicans just want to be independent, whereas Democrats want to financially enslave everyone.

All Democrats are good for is spreading poverty.

Otherwise they wouldn't have a constituency. I'll stick with the party that takes the harder path and is rewarded when things go right, not the party that gets rewarded when things go wrong.

IMK02,

I am not sure exactly what your point is... or if is directed at me? However, a death of a loved one is a tragedy, and something nobody wants anyone to suffer, but it doesn't pay a salary.

See, money comes from making things... selling things or providing services or knowledge.

I see you are in favor of the healthcare, but you haven't said one thing about the bill's content, sustainability, impact, or clarity... Do you have anything to add to the conversation besides insults?

By the way, if you were directing your post to me, I am not a Republican.

Damn right we aren't a collective. Let the damn communists have their collectives. We are individuals, free men able to make free choices, not numbers in some government regulated collective.

Looking out for yourself and your family's best interests are what you are SUPPOSED to do! It's called taking responsibility for your own. If one of your own has a problem, then you come together to help them out, not expect total strangers to provide the safety net at the expense of their own needs.

We've been rolling with the progressive (socialist/communist) politics now for 100 years, and our situation right now pretty much sums up the quality of that ideology. They have ruined us in a century. We need to kick these a$$holes off the planet! No more hiding behind the Constitution while you systematically destroy us from within.

P.S. F()ck the neocons too!

O... he knows. He is trying to destroy OUR nation.

all The Republicans can think about... Is the money they won't be able to steal from Us any more!!!

Imk, I've read several of your posts. All you and those like you think about is how to continue to take what you have not earned. If you so badly want cradle to grave gov't care, find a country that offers it, there are many of them. They have 2 classes of people, the poor and the ones that work for the gov't.

Jeannie-889702

Great post....

Oh I do believe those who rammed it through thus far know exactly what they are giving us, anaccelerated state of national bankruptcy. Then when it all collapses they will try to blame everyone else. I just hope the school system hasn't degraded to the point that, even after the nation's finances collapse, they don't vote the same kind of parasites that have been in office the vast majority of the last 100 years.

Remember people, we don't need the government's permission to start over. The only way they can ruin our country is if we let them. We don't have to take this sitting down because they are not our masters. That's what makes this country great. That's what separates us from skanky Eurosocialists, South American dictators, African druglords, etc. We are the power, the muscle, and the decider. The government declared war on us a long time ago, and it's time for us to make our stand.

Make your stand on Nov. 2010. We can win this war.

I agree they should all be put in jail and Obama should be inpeached.

qwerty: First of all you spelling sucks. Second...impeached for what?? And if you look, it is impeached not inpeached.

I think it was James that was "inpeached":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_and_the_Giant_Peach

Like stealing two elections & lying about a war is something Our Forefathers sure didn't have in mind... This is suppose to be a equal chance for everyone to get ahead... Not just the Few... Why do you think we left England!!!

James and the Giant Peach reference- OUTSTANDING HUMOR!

Imk, you just don't get it. "We" left England because of too much taxation, too much interference in *our* lives. Big gov't is not your friend. They can not spend your money better than you tho they seem to have you convinced they can.

I don't care if he is impeached or inpeached. Just get his all out of there.

Milddle-Class? Middle-Class? What Middle-class????? LMAO

This country lost the "middle-class" when credit cards became readily available to anyone with a name here. Good Luck with that rise Tom! I think by November 2010, more people will be on the streets and there will be nothing they can do about it because in the end, it'll be all their fault for not saving for that rainy day. The government seems to get involved when the majority of the people act irresponsible and this health-care bill along with the bailouts are signs of it.

Tom:

From a common sense standpoint, does that make any sense? The President had everything to lose by fulfilling his major campaign promise. The easiest thing to do, would be to cling to his initial popularity and put off the health care issue for the next President, just as Reagan, Bush and Bush Jr. did.

Obama took a huge risk, cost himself approval ratings, got beaten up by insurance lobbyists, all to "make history"? Please. As the first black President, he's made history. He could have put his feet up and sailed through the next four/ eight years.

It makes no sense for anyone to fight the way the Democrats did, if their only aim was to "make history". There are certainly arguments to be made about this final Senate bill, but the idea that it was done for personal glory is defeated in the face of common sense.

Tom - Totally agree with you. "Unusual Christmas Eve vote..." What a mess ! They are destroying the economy and we will pay a heavy price. They won't suffer or feel the effects, because they have their "special" health coverage.

Clotho - The Senate purposefully, DID NOT eschew sesquipedalian obfuscation and proclivity in the construction of this 2,000+ page monstrosity (that none of them have even read). Not to mention cutting sweetheart deals (Nebraska - you don't have to pay - EVER !) I'm really not trying to be fresh here. I have just never been afraid of our government before and now I'm terrified.

Tom: Are You talking about Bush Jr.??? Because if any one made things bad for This Country it would have to be Him!!! Obama finally got what the American People has needed for years... It is just a start for how He will make This a better Country!!!!

Obama finally got what the American People has needed for years

Obviously you have no clue what you just "got". A plurality of Americans oppose this bill and if we're all lucky it won't survive reconciliation, the inevitable Constitutional challenges, or the Democrats being thrown out of Washington.

Clotho,

The Congress, that being both the House & Senate, pushed this thing through so fast because the Dems looked at historical data, that shows the party in power loses seats during the mid term election cycle. They knew "now" was possibly their only chance to get this done, while they enjoy a super majority. They never intended this Bill be bi-partisan and they were never interested in any input from the Repubs.

Imk, let's try one more time to get you to open your eyes.

This is not some great gift from your gov't. This program won't even kick in for 4 years but people will be starting to pay for it in a few weeks. These people I'm talking about are folks that have families, have their own responsibilities, food, clothing, education for their kids, etc. Yet now they must add additional taxes for a program that if it is anything like other gov't programs will end up with fraud and cost overruns making it more expensive than projected.

As to your thinking that Obama is the fairest and smartest in the land, open your eyes to the sweetheart deals (BRIBES) that were made to get this bill. Where do you think the money will come from for this? I realize the Treasury thinks we have a money tree where they can just keep going to run off some more bucks but that tree is dry. Even China has no more interest in taking our treasury notes.

While insurance reform may have been something that could have helped and may have encouraged people to want to purchase it, this is not what we have received. We have the gov't taking over our HC in more ways than just forcing us to buy insurance. And your wonder boys made many deals with the real winners in this debacle, the lobbyists for drug and insurance companies.

One other item IMK. IF this plan is so great WHY are the Congress exempting themselves from it? That should be your biggest clue that this bill stinks.

The way we can compete is bring these jobs back and tax corporations who move manufacturing out of the country.

Hey, options, you have your (and the countries) priotities bass ackwards..... Get the unemployed jobs and they can buy their own unsubsidized insurance, as well as have their pride back. That's the way it works in a capitalist society. I will agree we need to get spending under control.

vmoption: This is just the beginning for changes to go the American's way... Now He can work on getting Jobs & the other things that He wants to better This Country & further better The World...

It took 50 years for the Republicans to mess this Country up... Clinton Tried to make it right... But Bush Jr stowed 2 elections & made This Mess... Now the Democrats has to clean it up... It is a start... Hopefully now We will have a Happy Ending if We can keep the Republicans out of Office...

To those that keep on saying that the big ins coos will be taxed don't understand basic econ 101. Those additional taxes are a cost of doing business and those costs will be picked up by whoever does business with those coos. Get an education before you post crap.

I plan on changing mine to a Coo that supported Team O. One that won't be taxed. You pay ot play the Chicago way!!

vmoptions et al - No argument to your opinions. However, what you are calling my opinions are still left for you and everyone else to prove they are just opinions. You cite lots of information concerning republicans (again I don't care because I am not one.) all of which could be true. But, you do not show me how this passage will benefit anyone as opposed to what currently exists. You simply give me rhetoric of your political bent. I don't care if you are liberal, Democrat, neocon, Republican, or whatever. Makes no difference to me. However, in a couple of well known commercial and movie sayings, "show me the beef" or "show me the money" so to speak. Stop ridiculing those whom you don't agree with and start rolling up your sleeves and showing me and others how this country truly will benefit from what it is you are desperately trying to defend. I bet you can't. The idiots who passed it and the idiotic media who are defending most certainly can't. Why should you be any different? So, now you are left with a dilemma. Do you admit I am correct or do you take the easy way out, like most of your leftist friends and choose to call me a disguised Republican or neo-con? What will it be? Care to face the music or take the easy way out?

Taxing companies that take their business out of the US???? WOW that’s a horrible idea! How about we stop singing bills that limit the manufacturing capability in the country? As soon as Crap and Trade pass this plan will be complete. We will officially be a dead nation. Then we can try and sell clean energy to someone like China who will own everything because they refuse to play these stupid games.

Imk02,

You are right it took 50 yrs but you've got the wrong party. Now here is some facts for you. look it up "Wikipedia"

Control of Congress. ie. meaning both the "House & Senate"

1933-1945 Dems controlled both Houses

1946-1948 Repubs controlled both Houses

1948-1952 Dems controlled both Houses

1952-1954 Repubs controlled both Houses

1954- Dems controlled both houses for the next 40 yrs with the exceptions below

Repubs only controlled the Senate for a 6 yr period from 1981 to 1987 and both Houses in 1994-2006 Except the Senate for the most of 2001 & 2002 Dems had the majority because Jim Jeffords became a (I) independent and caucused with the Dems.

so there goes your theory.

and it was a democratically controlled congress that spawned the welfare policies as well as the inner city housing projects in the 60's that ended in absolute failure which took the better part of 20 years to clean up.

you libs sure seem to forget the unmitigated disasters that the democratic party has foisted on the citizens of this country.the welfare state that created a mindset of having more children in order to get more money from the government as well as ushering in 30 years of the mindset that free money was a better path to take than earning one's way in this world.

not to mention all those public housing projects that morphed into drug dealing gang infested warehouses by the early 80's which many are now being razed in order to demolish the enviroment that supports these types of hateful and illegal activities.

these are the 2 most prevelant examples of the liberal agenda that failed completely to deliver what was promised.expect nothing less from the current mess that is being rammed through congress with the health care fiasco as well as the cap and trade legislation.won't even bring up the illegal immigration mess that you libs want to enact so you can tap a vast pool of potential voters to support your meritless agendas.

Good work Dave, here's an additional assignment should you choose to do it.

The reality is simple majority is a weak majority. To effecitively operate a strong majority - at least 55% of the seats must be held by the majority. In the last 40 years republicans have only had 55 seats for 2 years, 54 seats for 4 years.

Name the party that had 84% of the Senate Seats. Hint this happened for 2 times in a row.

The most dominating Senate was 92% of all Senate Seats by one party.

Knowone could fail this Country more than Reagen, Bush Sr & Bush Jr...

Wanna bet? The dept is more than any one president under Obama and the ceiling was just increased to cover your asses and it will be increased yet again in FEB 2010.

Clearly lmk02 has a delusional and very much minority opinion.

imk: In your statement it takes three Rep. presidents to mach the failure of your 1 Dem. president. You are really good! I know thats way over your head!!! Also don't forget it took your 1 Dem. to outspend more than just 3 Rep's in less than (1 year).

imk needs to be suicided today!

What's a neo-lib? I haven't heard that before.

The worse thing that ever happen to This Country was Bush's War!!! Nothing could be worse than that!!!

And you forget about Obama's continued war. These old sayings should go to the way side soon. Fools, Obama is continuing to war and talk about Pakistan and Iran. Yeah, Bush's war, pfft. Get a freaking clue.

They're having their little O-gasm today.

Like a bunch of dancing prairie dogs who can't see past the horizon.

so imk two wrongs do make it right, is that what you are saying? get the hell over bush, he's gone, and hopefully obama will have the same farewell only sooner.

A neo-lib is a faaaaar left individual that believes that no matter how hard you work, and no matter how successful you become, you should give all or most of what you earn to those that have no interest in doing the same.

A neo-lib believes in huge government programs, constant government control over public and private entities. A neo-lib is a cross between a facist and a socialist with a pinch of communist mixed in. A neo-lib doesn't want any one person to have any more than any other person, except for himself. He can be as rich and powerful as he likes, all in the name of doing what is best for the whole. A neo-lib is also unable to hold himself accountable for anything that goes wrong but is amzing at claiming credit for anything that goes as planned.

Al Gore, Barry Obama, Michael Moore, Nancy Pelosi, Charlie Rangle, Barney Frank, John Conyers, etc are all great examples of the Neo-Lib (New Liberal).

Neo-libs are the lib-progressive leadership. They know the agenda and they have been incrementally buttsurfing us, and our freedoms, over the last century. Might as well make mention that both parties basically merged into one, under one power, sometime during the 60s, and the only people not represented since then have been the conservative, libertarian, constitutionalists, etc. Anyway, the neo-libs have ALWAYS been hellbent on taking this country down. Socialism is just an intermediate to communism (marx). Socialism concentrates the wealth AND power into the hands of a few. It's all there in the history books folks.

Lib-progessive supporters are the dumba$$es who can't see the forest from the trees. Notice their base: minorities and kids. Those who get the handouts, and those who are jumping on the "cool" bandwagon. They have no idea what the real agenda is. All they can do is parrot the pamphlets and talk about "all in the name of the good" BS. They are ignorant or lazy or both. They are indoctrinated airheads. It would be kind of funny if they weren't so dangerous.

If we want to help our country recover, the first thing we need to do is get rid of these people and their leftist ideology for good. No more hiding behind the Constitution while systematically deconstructing this country from within!

Right on. John Stossel wrote a good article regarding healthcare and the good examples that do exist. None are heavily government controlled. What does work are HSA or MSA based systems with a high deductible, where the patient controls how, who and what healthcare he/she receives for the everyday stuff.

The dems don't want to even consider this as they have sold out to insurance and pharma interests and their own power and have no interest in anything but building a larger and larger government and add more and more dependent people. Once dependent, you'll NEED them forever.

I've never been more ashamed of my government than I am today. Crooks, liars and thieves.

Paul F - You hammered home that nail perfectly.

The bill isn't finished yet... Wait to see the finial bill before you Bitch about it!!!

Imk02, would you go away if you can't say something intelligent. And learn how to spell!

Sooo, since the bill isn't finished, and Reid holds some magic wand to suddenly make it Constitutional, then Nebraska won't be exempt for paying the additional Medicare costs and its Senator will no longer be the 60th vote.

Common Sense could go a long way if you only knew how to use it.

Apparently there is nothing common about sense anymore.

Right finally the Rich starts paying Their Fair Taxes To This Country... The Rest Of Us Get The Benefit!!!

imko

Right finally the Rich starts paying Their Fair Taxes To This Country... The Rest Of Us Get The Benefit!!!

you are such a leech. i am very far from being rich but if i worked hard and overtime i feel i deserve EVERYTHING i worked for , fu! leech.

lmk02: Are you smoking crack or is that your age? You need to educate yourself before you make ignorant statements on public forums. You are making a fool out of yourself.

lmk02

Lucky you...it's leech's and lazy ass's like you that will benefit from all this stupidity! Hold your head up high, while the rest of us carry you...loser!

"I have a funny feeling that the party of No is going to come out of this looking better than it did going in."

-----------------------

GOP approval rating before HealthCAre debate= 24%

GOP approval rating after HealthCAre debate= 18%

So much for the 'rising' of the GOP. But thanks for playing!

Believe Anything - I think you and I are related to the same "Aunt Fanny". Think our "Aunt" would agree that these politicians should SHARE in this "historic health care plan" by making sure that they must use it also. Let's see how long it lasts when they can't get a doctors appointment.

"you are such a leech. i am very far from being rich but if i worked hard and overtime i feel i deserve EVERYTHING i worked for , fu! leech.

-----------------

Yep, and when you are unemployed, the taxpayer can let you leech and get your socialist 'unemployment benefits'.

And when you retire, the tax payer can let you leech us for your socialist 'Social Security' check and socialist Medicare.

One mans taxpayer is another mans leech apparently....jeez you Gopers are all tiied up in a wad. But your incessant whining and impotent attempts to sink Obama at any cost are very amusing.

Tim, if in your little world republicans are at an 18% approval rating(and I would love to know where those numbers came from) and they lead democrats 44%-36% in generic balloting in the latest Rasmussen poll, how low are the dems on the issues?

As far as anything being paid for in the future go take a look at the www.usdebtclock.org and look at how short our future is if we keep spending more than we have. It is not a pretty sight. Just so you know this is done by a group who has been trying to tell us for years how badly the country is being run. It is a sad thing that so many people think we can dig out of the whole we are in and not stop the spendahloics from both sides in DC from destroying the country's future.

I'm sure They will... They will finally have affordable Insurance!!! the Rich will finally start paying Their way...

Yes, sir. The dems have had control since 2006. People should remember and if not we should remind them continuously.

Paying our way!?!?!?!?!? what if everyone had your attitude... well im not going to work someone will do it for me. WOW grow up

Is there anyway to vote Imk02 off this island. What a waste of air.

jmsuss

I totally AGREE!!!

lmk02,

fyi....you have to work to earn $$. Most of those who are well off worked hard to get there, years of schooling, working day and night. Stop with the jealousy and get off your ass if you feel sooooo neglected! I am sure most individuals posting today are NOT rich, just working hard to pay their bills-so just shut your jealous, ignorant, lazy mouth!

Janine - Amen !!!

IWA, he may be gone but we are still fighting his wars. Are you now blaming the wars on Obama? Wow. That's the height of idiocy.

IMK02----- You really are a loathsome little parasite, aren't you?

How much do you think the rich should pay, leech?

2007 is the last year we have full numbers for, the top 8% of people by income payed 94% of all individual income taxes.

%2% of the leeches in the country paid nothing.

A democrat is the only know parasite that feeds on it's own speices.

Democrats didn't start a war based on lies, that has bankrupted us and put us in even more danger that we were already. Democrats didn't foster the lack of regulation that plunged us into this recession.

You're so full of crap, kacky.

The Democrats voted to go into Iraq. STFU. Obama continues, and just amped up troop levels in Afghanistan. It's Congress's war, and always has been, because they can pay off a lot of their buddies by going to war.

Carter pushed through the CRA, Clinton signed - with support from the Dems in Congress - the repeal of Glass-Steagall and implementation of Gramm-Leech-Bliley. Those two acts of Congress, both Democrat motivated because they are SOCIAL ENGINEERING via "GIVING" people loans they COULD NOT PAY, led directly to the financial crisis. THAT is the lack of regulation.

The Republicans (and I am not one, but every once in while they do something that makes sense) led by McCain tried, about two weeks ago, to have Glass-Steagall reinstated. The Democrats silenced them.

YOU WILL BE OUT in 2010. Your leeching will be ended.

You are just parroting the haters.