To that end congressional leaders plan to dispense with the formal process of appointing a conference committee to work out the differences in the bill. Instead top House and Senate Democrats and White House officials will aim to reach agreement among themselves, then have the two houses vote as quickly as possible.

President Obama pledged during the campaign to open up health care talks to C-SPAN's cameras.

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are." Jan. 31, 2008.

Enough said. Open debate or NO BILL. There has already been too much back-room politics and lying to last a lifetime.

"YOU LIE!!!"

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are," Obama said at a debate against Hillary Clinton in Los Angeles on Jan. 31, 2008.

I concur! This whole HealthCare reform feels like a 'black-ops' project. Secretive; behind closed-doors maneuvering and forced upon a nation that either doesn't want it, a nation that can't afford it and a nation that doesn't understand it. Even our elected officials don't understand it, so how can we?

Why not 'reform' the health care system that we have currently? Why do we have to 'rush' through this legislation? Too many unanswered questions. Just too many!

2010 and 2012 won't come soon enough!

I hope they also start packing their $hit up so after the election(s) the door doesn't have time to hit them in the a$$e$ on the way out of town.

If a Congress person doesn't listen to their constituents, work for their constituents or the majority, up hold/protect the nation and constitution as they swear too, why on earth do we keep voting for these people?

I just don't get it?

Is it because we are too lazy/complacent as a people, society, and nation to take responsibility for ourselves?

Ok let me get this straight....

1. Leave the Republicans out of the negotiations (which represent almost half the country)
2. close the door to the public
3. exempt the policymakers...

So... why isn't everyone losing their minds right now (democrat voters included)?! This is a travesty. Seriously. Isn't there a reason for everything? Surely there's a reason for my 3 points above......

Thanks to the GOP, who are NOT going to cooperate, vote or do ANYTHING but obstruct this legislation.

Why would you CARE, if they can get the votes WITHOUT the GOP, why involve them in the process if all they want to do is disrupt it???

Were you asleep at the wheel when the Bush administration did the very same thing on many bills.

NiteOwlett

Go cry someplace else if you're going to bring up Bush! We're talking about the "present" and the problems with this administration and 'promises' broken.

You Big Baby!

I think that this crap should be for ALL DEMOCRATS ONLY !!

By Democrats for Democrats - to Democrats -

As for me and mine - we'll stay with what we have --

AND

I don't need some doggone democrat telling me what I have or what I do is bad for me period -

WHEN AND IF I EVER NEED HELP ---

I WILL ASK FOR IT -

UNTIL THEN - LEAVE ME THE FRICK ALONE

NiteOwlett:

Why would you CARE, if they can get the votes WITHOUT the GOP, why involve them in the process if all they want to do is disrupt it???

maybe ... just maybe ... just maybe on wild a$$ hair, the jackasses might consider an idea OTHER than their left leaning agenda to spend our grandkids into oblivion!

... but then this isn't at all about healthcare reform is it? It's about gaining control and changing our government to their vision of a European state.

How's all that change working for you now, folks?

The reason the GOP should be included....................

It is apart of our system - DEMOCRACY --

Which is grounded in debate and compromise ------

The only way this could get further from an action of democracy is if it was done under executive order !!

FOR SHAME ON ALL DEMOCRATS - Not for trying to pass or even passing -- but for abusing the system and the American peoples trust.

All of the blood spilt in the many wars and over all those years of this country - have been spilt for no reason should this be permitted to continue.

FOR SHAME

WHAT ??????????

Typical - just absolutely typical - nothing of value added

hey nite toilet! this regime is corrupt on a level not seen in this country in decades. this takeover is unconstitutional and they know it. the republicans and conservatives in the media are helping us get a better look at this @!$%# and I am thankful for that. bribes and closed meetings are why it has gone this far. this corrupt policy making must stop.

Oh, it's you again, Nite.

Wankering on about bullcrap totally unrelated to the topic, and not even doing THAT well. Since you simply WON"T either educate yourself, or just be quiet, here's a couple thoughts:

Your boy Obama is FINALLY sending another 30k to Afghanistan, there's still over 100k in Iraq AND he's pishing around with Yemen, while maybe growing a spine on terrorism. Bet that just pisses you off, doesn't it. Well, the truth hurts, and war sucks. AND HE IS NOW A WARMONGER, because just like everything else, he's doing the exact same crap Bush did. Deal with it.

Oh, and Mr. Bi-partison Newman also said to the Republicans, back in April I believe it was at a meeting to begin discussions on health care, "No, we won. We're not doing that." Despite that, they wrote four bills, one you'll find at this link in case you care to EVER actually KNOW WTF you're talking about:

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

They offered hundreds of amendments, tried to participate in negotiations, and had the door slammed in their faces pretty much every time. Yup, by June they were saying, this will be his waterloo. And.... IT WILL.

The Democrat whores have a filibuster-proof majority in both houses, and the Presidency, they wrote a crap bill they had to bribe their OWN PARTY to vote for with taxpayer money ($350 in bribes PER TAXPAYER - obviously not including the leeches that don't PAY TAXES, JUST to get this far), less than 40% of the country support this bill and about half think we would be better off if NOTHING passed, and you pansy-arse whining gimme gimme gimme liberals want to blame the Republicans? Stupid, wrong, and patently false.

And you know what really is ironic, that I'm typing this DEFENSE of a party I too cannot stand, as A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT who voted for Obama.

Yea, all it took was the minimum of 5 broken promises surrounding the non-stimulative pork fill payback to supporter filled with lies and backended to buy elections Stimulus Bill to get ME to put down the koolaid.

The question becomes, when will the rest of you boneheads realize you've been duped?

Hey is this the Change you voted for? Where are the libs defending this shameful execution of our once proud democracy...

This is some of the darkest actions associated with power hungry and unethical leadership. They can't trust that their bill will flow through the time tested system of our land so they change it to enhance the possibility of what they consider success... I would turn my back on everyone of them. They deserve zero respect. To quote a representative at a State of the Union speak, they all lie, especially the President (he committed to having open and televised debate on CSPAN - where is he now? An empty suit).

Why include Republicans? They won't vote for it whatever it or they say. They do not negotiate in good faith, so if they're not needed, ignore them.

Ferrosynthesis

"...so if they're not needed, ignore them."

Thats what 'bullies' say. Aren't you more mature than that?

I didn't say beat them up I said ignore them. They don't want to play. Bend over backwards to make a few reps happy and they don't vote for it anyway.

It's not a bully, it's reality. Talking to a boulder won't convince it to move out of the way. Just go around it.

No, reality is the Dems had to bribe members of their OWN party to vote for this. The Republicans had pretty much nothing to do with it - a fact they will be happy to not soon let anyone forget since only about 34% of the country wants it to pass.

The bribes the Senate dems had to pay to get it to pass - where they hold a filibuster proof majority - total about $350 per taxpayer - not including the leeches that don't pay taxes, obviously.

These 2 bills aren't Socialized Medicine or the European way like some of you brainless people have said. These bills are a giveaway to the health insurance and drug industries. No choice of a public option, millions of captive customers, and no negotiations with drug companies for lower drug prices. This is everything the industry could have wanted and it may as well be, they helped write it. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves over partisan politics we should be outraged that our elected officials are being bribed by these Corporations and special interests. Time to turn off the tv and wake up.

"They are high jacking our legislative system". Yes, they are! If this bill passes, I hope it is immediately challenged for its legality with regards to the Constitution. Our Government can't just ram something down our throats that the majority of Americans don't want and make everyone pay for it for many years before we even have access to the benefits. Is this still America? Is Obama now King of the World and no one can stop him? God help us all!

Only the Republicans do that... They figure if can start lies about it now... That the People will be against it when they vote on it!!!

Michael #64,

"It is apart of our system - DEMOCRACY --"

The only problem with that statement is that we are not a democracy but a democratic republic. That's why different powers given to the three parts of the federal government, the federal government itself and the individual states.

In a pure democracy, the majority holds all the power and very easily run rough shod over the minority. That is why our founding fathers made our form of government into a democratic republic to give the minority a voice and protect their rights. However, our fearless "leaders" have become the majority and the American public is now the minority.

Due to the apathy, complete unintelligent thinking and blind chauvinism of the American public, we have let those leaders become so powerful, so uncaring of the American public that they feel that they can do anything they want. They don't care how we feel, what we want or even what we need. As my ol' Pappy used to say about those people, "I got mine, pull up the rope."

I read an article the other day that was about Americans being to dumb to live in America. I tried to find it again but my search was unfruitful. The article had at least a grain of truth to it. We keep re-electing the same criminals back into office even though we say we have no confidence in them. And that goes for democrats and republicans both.

Too many people vote through blind chauvinism, because the candidate is the same sex, religion, ethnic group or party. Some people choose the party they vote for because that's the party their parents voted for and their parents could do no wrong, while others vote the other party because they refuse to agree with their parents.

It's time for people to quit relying on biased media, party sanctioned talking points and plain old down right lies and do their own research. Maybe we would then see more rational comments and less trying to move forward by looking in the rear view mirror all the time.

On December 19, 2009, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) filed a 383 page amendment to the pending health care bill. The amendment did little to reform health care and included numerous spending proposals to lock in votes in support of the bill. Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) secured up to $300 million in additional federal funding for Louisiana's Medicaid program. Senator Ben Nelson's (D-NE) state will receive permanent federal aid for Nebraska's expanded Medicaid population - a deal worth about $100 million over ten years. There were additional deals made with the senators from Vermont and Massachusetts that will increase their federal funding for Medicaid. Medicare Advantage benefits, which will be cut across the country, were protected in New York, Pennsylvania, and Florida. Additionally, Senator Christopher Dodd (D-CT) pushed for and successfully included a provision that would direct $100 million in funding to a public medical school. The provision was written in such a way that a school located in Connecticut will have a significant advantage over other schools in securing those funds. These are just a few of the deals made to lock in the votes needed to pass the bill. Promises of transparency, fiscal discipline and thoughtful policy debates were replaced with closed door negotiations and multi-million dollar pay offs.

On December 24, 2009, the Senate health care reform bill was agreed to by a vote of 60 to 39. I would not allow my vote to be bought. Differences between the House and Senate bills will have to be worked out before the final bill is voted on in the Senate. Negotiations will take place in January. I anticipate they will be led by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA).

This was sent to me by a senator who's name I will not say for safety reasons. THIS is our government at it's finest. We live in a COMMUNIST country and for those that dont blieve it, prove otherwise or crawl back under your rocks!

This is almost comical.

First, the Democrats say "We need to pass this legislation RIGHT NOW, or it will lead to bankrupting our Country".

Then they say "Let's not implement the bill for 4 more years".

What's wrong with this picture???????????????????????

ROY LMAO but so true

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free!

The healthcare bill is the WORST EXAMPLE OF CORRUPTION in US history.

It's OUTRAGEOUS.

What EVIL PLANET did Obama, Reid, and Pelosi come from ???? GO BACK!

This president is a lying sack of sh.t. He's lied on just about everything he promised during his campaign. 1)Reaching accross the table for bi-partisianship efforts, 2) Transparency (about as opaqe as it gets) 3) Earmarks, 4) No Lobbyists 5) The closing of Gitmo by the end of 2009 (doesn't look that way, Barrack.) He still has troops in Iraq and they'll be there long after August. He is a piss poor leader. I hope everyone who voted for him get what's coming to them. You all deserve the fiasco he's causing. Not to mention the failure to blame himself and his administration for the Terrorist attacks on his watch. em>He is the system that has failed, along with the ever stupid Janet Napolitano and Eric Holder. I'm ashamed to say that this clown is the POTUS. And that stands for Pussy of the United States. IMO, he's as dumb as a stump. Anyone could read a telepropmpter. How I'd love to debate this empty suit face to face. And they thought Bush was bad. He may have been a disppointment, but Dufus makes him look like a genious. At least Bush had testicles. Obama had to be castrated at birth, becasue he has no nuts.

This is an outrageous abuse of power!,Transparency!.....yeah, does ANYONE know who is writing this bill or what they're putting in it? The answer is simply ,no.Behind those closed and locked doors could be, George Soros, SEIU,ACORN,Osama bin Ladin,Ahmadenijad, Putin, Cloward and Piven or our worst nightmare, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd! but seriously, NO ONE KNOWS, and they could be putting anything they want into a bill that will affect every single American,Which means everything that has happened before has just been for show, your typical scam,promise everybody anything they want to vote yes, and then put these radicals and con artist into position to do whatever they please with one sixth of our economy and the country itself,and they can refuse to use normal legislative procedures or let anyone see what evil has been created until the damage is done. We have been had, for now, but tomorrow is another day and we will remember.

All of you conservative Republican dolts who are now whining because your boys and girls are out of the loop in this discussion: if you're not a part of the SOLUTION, you're part of the PROBLEM. The Republicans' "contribution" thusfar to healthcare reform has been to be purveyors of lies and misinformation. Obstructionism to the MAX. Your "reward:" exclusion from the crafting of the final bill. We all know the Republicans will vote "no" no matter what the final bill is - they just don't know how to do anything else. I just got Paul Ryan's BS newsletter where he tries to make it look like he earned his salary this past year. Like all the congressional Republicans, he did not a darn thing, and we'll remind him of that come November.

Bipartisan? Keep pork out of legislation? No lobbyists? Transparency? What a liar

Pelosi, Reid and Obama have all proven that they are LIARS that do not care about the American people just their own agenda's. We are all going to pay big time for having these hypocrites in office. This is not change unless it is for the worse spend, spend, spend, tax, tax, tax. Have ANY of these three actually read the whole bill I doubt it all the Dictator of America wants is to get his bill passed no matter what it does to the people who made the mistake of trusting him, glad I was not one of them and now I know why!!!!

called for letting the sun shine in on the discussions — as Obama once had promised.

And Obama replied "promises are only tools to be used to get elected..."

“bypass the usual negotiations” this is the actions that TYRANTS do.

There are two races going on now. The race for senate in Massachusetts with Republican Scott Brown moving up in the race, and the race to pass the so called health care bill before the Massachusetts senate vote on Jan 19.

"whether illegal immigrants should be allowed to buy coverage in the new markets with their own money." The list goes on.

Great way to turn them in, have them show up to buy insurance and then call the INS.

Do the Congress and the Senate have any idea what they are doing? Definatley not.

If Nebraska thinks that my Fed Tax dollars are going to pay for their Medicaid for life. See you in court.

Looking forward to voting against all incumbants in 2010 and 2012.

The GOP had nothing constructive to say the last 9 months, they showed their tactics during the August recess, so they have shown that they will just do more destruction. You help with the process, you get to participate in the process.

SJC - you REALLY haven't been paying attention, have you? It's hard to do anything "constructive" when the majority is doing whatever it does behind closed doors, trying to ram stuff through without debate or even reading it, and refusing to allow any discussion of the republican's proposals. Stop just going by what you see on NBC, and try a dose of reality. If you trust organizations that are totally in the tank for Obama and the dems to tell you the whole story, you'll never know what your government is really doing to you.

SJC-1437429 You have to watch Cspan to know what is going on in Congress, if you watched as I do, you would know how the Democrats operate, this Democrat is ashamed of all the Democrats in Congress.

How bad is the Health Care bill if they have to spend a billion dollars to buy the votes of 13 Democrats that did not like the Bill.

Ok let me get this straight....

1. Leave the Republicans out of the negotiations (which represent almost half the country)
2. close the door to the public
3. exempt the policymakers...

So... why isn't everyone losing their minds right now (democrat voters included)?! This is a travesty. Seriously. Isn't there a reason for everything? Surely there's a reason for my 3 points above......

I guess you IGNORED the Bush administration when they did the VERY SAME THING.

Nite Owl, I was adamantly opposed to many things Bush did and I am adamantly opposed and in a better position to do something about it as it is involves the relevant present and the future.

Frankly, many more people have access to the internet and the prevalence of blogs has given us an expanding voice and a sounding board like never before.

It's true we did not see the damage that has been done to us over the decades but we are here now and we seem to be upset over both Parties and most of us prefer to see ourselves as conservative, moderate, liberal etc. When we talk about Dems and Repubs, for the most part, we are referring to our representatives.

When Bush was in office you SAME lemmings were backing his every word and every Democrat online was screaming about this very same tactic.

THIS TIME you all have to eat it. Your reps don't cooperate, they get left behind.

If you are not part of the process, stay home.

SJC:

You help with the process, you get to participate in the process.

Of course what you mean is cave in fully with the way the Dems want it ...

An honest exchange of ideas was ruled out very early on this. The Repubs did offer sugestions ... of course these suggestions got in the way of the Insurance industry, big Pharma, Trial Lawyers, and Unions whom the Dems are in bed with.

... and you complained about Haliburton and Exxon.

Vote for anything but a Dem!

NiteOwlett:

Your reps don't cooperate, they get left behind.

my my my that sounds a little jaded "Ve Haf our Vays to get you to cooperate!"

... you lefties really are going to get an a$$ kickin this November!

I will hold my thought on that until we are in October, 2010 and the economy is strumming along fine, with jobs UP and unemployment DOWN. Healthcare started on it's way and many people happy that SOMETHING was done. In fact, many revisions have been passed by that time and the bill even got better.

Yes, a dream. But at least I HAVE HOPE for a better America, not worse.

you live in the same la la land with the rest of your liberal bleeding hearts. maobama has put us on a destructive course. ask 61% of American voters about that fact.

Nite -

Once again, you have no idea WTF you're talking about.

Bush could never have done the same thing, because NO piece of legislation of this magnitude that effects every single person in this country has been considered since LBJ passed Medicare/caid with BI-PARTISAN negiation. And aside from the $75 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities attached to those programs, look what a brilliant success they've been! /sarcasm.

You don't get it, do you?

This isn't a Pell grant extension, this isn't fixing a road in East Bumfeck.

This affects every single American. They're being ignored, and their representatives are being ignored.

And yes, in 2010 it will be amended. Right off the books.

SJC - Every GOP proposal and amendment was rejected from even being brought to the floor. 100% of them. The were shut out of the process... So much for your complaints - I see you are still drinking the cool aid. Suggest you look and the facts and think for yourself.

SJC: They have been lying to the People ever since Bush Jr stowed the two elections!!!

What in Sam Hill do you mean? Stowed?

That's lmk's Elmer Fudd impression.

Pay no mind, it goes from thread to thread wankering on and cheerleading all the while having not the vaguest idea what game is even being played. It just knows it R a D!

Nite owl you should be shareing some of that $HIT YOUR SMOKEING it seems to be pretty gooooooood

As one who certainly enjoys the clarity of the difference between the parties on this issue, I have concluded after reading much of what is in the bill, but not all, that it is best to let the small minds of the Democratic leadership craft some variant of the Senate bill. The Democrats have earned the right to do it, they have proven more durable in their arrogance of ignoring the will of the majority and effectively fatigued the right-minded masses of this country. We need the rest because Barry knows the battle is won and is currently trying to decide whether to destroy what is left of our great nation's economy through cap and tax, or providing amnesty to the 30 million new Democrats who, in the behavior of the corrupt, arrived here illegally but promise to provide at least an insurmountable Democratic majority if not a malleable mass for Chavezian-like rule for the hell-spawn of activists waiting their turn as community organizers to make the journey to DC.

I am telling it gets worse for a long time thanks to Barry's empowered sheep.

Nite Owl is a fool who does not pay taxes. There is no European health care system in this bill, rather you will be forced to pay for insurance at the level deemed necessary by the insurance industry...and guess what, do you think prices will go down? No, and you will be forced to pay more in taxes to help cover Nite Owl. Look to MA, where this has been in effect without any cost benefit to the people. This is more payback to party donors and should be criminal.

Yep. Bend over, here it comes. What a piece of work this clown is. I wish hiim nothing but misery in his political career.

NiteOwl your a liar, you say you were screaming about Bush and his tactics, you have only been on this Blog since Jan 09.

Apparently you don't have the balls to put down your real name and just like to call people lemmings based on your own imagination or perception of what is happening in government.

Who said Fannie and Freddie where on solid ground? Barney Franks and friends

Where did this finanacial crisis start? Fannie and Freddie

Who was in charge of the House Finance and Congress at the time of the crash? Barney Franks (who should be in jail) and the Democratic Controlled Congress.

Who told Clinton that he was afraid of Osama? Col Ollie North

Where did Clinton admit that he had 3 chances to kill Osama and failed? New York

Why? Monica

Are the Republicans just as bad? Yes

Our Government needs a good enima and hopefully in the next elections of 2010 and 2012 it will happen.

I heard just a few minutes ago that they are now putting the "final" discussions on C-Span. BO is so transparent now. I'd like to see this production.

President Obama does NOT get any credit nor blame for what CONGRESS is doing.

If the GOP wanted to be involved to actually make a difference, they had PLENTY of chances.

WHAT backdoor meetings???? This is the FIRST time other than one meeting President Obama took with only Democrats present. Bush did that ALL of the same as well.

WHAAAAA whaaaaa whaaaaa.

When the Democrats repeat history, you all cry the loudest.

And more uninformed bullcrap from Nite.

The entire Senate process took place behind closed doors. They only time they weren't behind closed doors was for votes. Not even other Democrats knew what was going on, although they were of course informed before the Republicans.

Obama is 100% responsible for the conduct of Congress. He sets the agenda, he's met with them several times, as has his dead fish Emanuel.

He obviously condones their actions of making unconstitutional provisions part of the bill, caving into lobbys and campaign contributors, breaking Senate rules and tradition, or he would have told them to knock it off. Just like Bush did, since that's how Obama rolls - Bush III with a D.

The only thing the Republicans wanted to do is stop Obama from succeeding!!! They have done a good job at that so far... But hopefully the Democrats will come through for the Country!!!

Obama is nothing but a filty liar. If it wasn't for the SEIU, ACORN and stupid people, he'd still be a community organizer. Wait, that is still all he is!

IMK02, The democrats can come, but they will not come through not come through for this country. They have no compassion for anyone or anybody. It's all about their agenda. Unless you are too stupid to see that, you are very misinformed.

As we consistently have the lowest percentage of voter turnout of any industrialized nation in every election, just "start voting" is enough for me.

richard-795963

As we consistently have the lowest percentage of voter turnout of any industrialized nation in every election, just "start voting" is enough for me.

====================================

Well I think that is changing ,it started in 2000 and the voting public is getting bigger.
If any thing the courts of 2000 show that the citizen best vote or have some one in a black rob telling them who gets in.

The Number of Voter are growing not getting smaller

Yes but they do not vote every year or in the smaller races so to speak. They feel they only need to vote in a Presidential year and there were many 1st time voters last year who may never vote again.

Carla-852935

Yes but they do not vote every year or in the smaller races so to speak. They feel they only need to vote in a Presidential year and there were many 1st time voters last year who may never vote again.

=========================================

Well I know in my stat the voting public is getting bigger and thy do vote.
As for the first time voter I would say a lot of them feel thy have been Con.

Its going to be those new Democrats from ages 19 to 25 that well drop out I think and a lot of cross over voter dumping the party of Fake-Change

I agree. All of the OBSTRUCTIONIST's who did NOTHING to contribute to healthcare reforms SHOULD BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE.

Yep, all the Democrats who voted for this non-reform deform bill will be voted out. That's exactly what will happen.

Amen To That!!!

Once the People see that the Republicans have been lying... They will vote all of them out of office!!!

The partisan thinkers from both sides have always maintained that if they only got their chance to rule everything would be swell and the people would gleefully accept their agenda as it is so enlightened. The problem with their vision is the people of this country can see a turd in the fishbowl and value their freedom and ability to make choices for themselves over ceding their freedom to the government that they rightfully distrust. The behavior of the majority is the worst example of one party rule (as we witness here in Illinois, the capitol of corruption) we have seen for a while. That is not to say the other side wouldn't do the same thing if they had the chance, they would and have. The real problem is the majority of people see this for what it is, a power grab by political opportunists and according to most polls the perpetrators will suffer in the next election. The sad part of that backlash is we will have the other group of scoundrels hamstringing the current group of scoundrels for a few years and as usual nothing will change. Both party's have no shame and are hypocrites. The very idea that this is change is nauseating.

Lets start a 10 million man march on DC. What are they going to do to stop a mob that size? Bomb us? Shoot us? I doubt it.
They are nothing but cowards, headed by Chicken Little himself.
With Obowma, the sky is always falling.

people need to vote all libertarians into office......forget all the dems and repubs...all crooked

Word is the Hispanic Caucus will "behave" by not being to loud about wanting the illegals covered in exchange for immigration reform.

Is it just me, or is it obvious to everyone, that they don't need to be concerned about the first part if they get the second part?

Two of the most devisive issues, illegal coverage and public option, have made there way back to front and center.

Unbelievable.

There is no easy fix for malpractice reforms. Reforms solely on the backs of victims is no reform, nor is it fair to people who were actually harmed by negligent physicians.

Why hang up ALL reforms for items that should get their own attention.

Where are the GOP bills for these reforms??? Limiting awards is NO FAIR FIX.

What lies??? Be specific.

Here's your education for THIS thread, Nite.

The Democrats won't do tort reform in ANY way shape or form, because they do not want to take on one of their biggest contributors, the trial lawyers association. They've admitted this.

Therefore, in order to guarantee their campaign contributions and other nice perqs from their lawyer friends (surprise, surprise, most of THEM are lawyers, too) they've cost the American taxpayers $54 BILLION. That's the CBO estimate of what tort reform could save.

And I linked you to a GOP bill in a post at the top of the page.

NOW GET A FRIGGEN CLUE.

The only one that has been lying is the Republicans!!!

Both party's are liars and hypocrites and their followers are simple minded lemmings who enable bad government. This type of governing is not new, anyone who thinks this is change is pathetic.

PPC-1541746

Our Founding Fathers must be rolling in their graves to see what our current leadership is trying to do to create and pass legislation against the wishes of all the people.

===========================

I think so to but the Democrat know that the dead can only vote if its a Democrat doing the voting for them.
Other than that thy don't give a rats butt if the founding father would care or not thy would not Vote for them any ways if thy could.

NIGHT,
You OBVIOUSLY cannot speak for the Democrats since you have EVERY point incorrect.

Why don't YOU worry about the Republicans and their DO NOTHING but obstruct methods of legislating?

They did that when Bush Jr was in office... They can see that the democrats are trying to give this Country back to the People!!!

They did that when Bush Jr was in office... They can see that the democrats are trying to give this Country back to the People!!!

Here in Illinois we have gotten a good look at how your party is giving the country back to the people. We have run up a unconstitutional budget deficit for years, the opposition party has been shut out of negotiations much like the current leaders in Washington are behaving. Your party has made our state the undisputed most corrupt political environment in the nation. Corruption in our state is truly bipartisan but your party has perfected it. The President and his advisers are a product of this toxic political environment, the great agent of change has never bucked the corrupt machine he is beholding to and has never enacted or supported any change in the way things are done at the state or local level. He is a hyper partisan political hack. Both party's are corrupt, power hungry and beneath contempt and the current legislative morass is a prime example of their corruption. You may not be able to recognize it but i don't believe a follower of either the republican or democratic agenda is capable of objective thought so you are excused but not forgiven.

imk are you really that naive or just stupid? how is taking away the rights of americans and forcing them to purchase insurance which will make the big business of insurance richer giving america back to the people....and you and niteowl can stop with that republlican bashing as i am not one and am not here to defend the mistakes the last administration did. your logic in your responses...well there is none. you both are like spoiled brat children.

Exactly! The Dems can complain all they want about how the GOP did the same, blah, blah, but the problem here is that this affects every single American and it is unconstitutional to force this crap on us - behind closed doors, and against our wishes.

Put it to a vote and see how many people vote for it! I doubt it would pass, unless ACORN is involved.

"YOU LIE!!!"

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are," Obama said at a debate against Hillary Clinton in Los Angeles on Jan. 31, 2008.

http://rawstory.com/exclusives/alexandrovna/dems_locked_out_real_id_428.htm

The Republicans have done this MANY times and also on the proposed federal minimum wage legislation in 2006.

@ niteowlett

Sheisty then... sheisty now. Two wrongs don't make a right come one man!

Difference is.. this will affect every single American. And a good amount of Mexicans as well... : )~

Oh, I LOVE the two wrongs argument.

Pity you have to suffer like I did the last 8 years.

Niteowlett (from your link)

“Democrats have been completely shut out of the backroom negotiations
that I understand have taken place this week about the REAL ID Act,” Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said.

“This is not the way the United States Senate should be doing business, and this is certainly not the way the American people expect that the laws that govern their daily lives will be produced," he added. "This is yet another example of the Republican leadership's abuse of power."

This just goes to show what good 'ol Harry's belief system is made of.

So, was he a liar then or a hypocrite now?

I'm guessing both. This is what we can expect from the dems.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Yes, a bitter pill we had to swallow, but for HUMANE reasons, not withholding an increase in minimum wage.

Yup, typical stupid liberal.

If WE do it, it's okay.

Obama is going to talk to the Congress & Senate... He will get them to get Health Care to the People!!!

Welcome to the world of politics. Would you like to see an open debate about which country we will bomb next? Sometimes deals must be hashed out where everyone can talk openly behind closed doors so that they are not slammed by the media for every word they say. Think about how you would hash out a law if you had to watch every word you say, sometimes you would have to play the devil's advocate. Get it.

Yes, I get it 100%, but this is not that time, adn if you don't plan on doing it, don't RUN on it. I didn't say don't say it, I said run on it. He lied to get elected, and yet that doesnt bother you....oh wait, modern politics huh?

Waiting for the Bush reply in 4, 3, 2, 1.......

navy... I'm sure if the bill in consideration was something that the repubs endoresed, wanted, and was in control of the legislature, they would use every tactic in the book to get it passed.

Pot Meet Kettle!

Lied to get elected.......and not in an intelligent manner like the other crooks. This one is front and center. "I will do this", and now "this" is starring him in the face. What will he do?

not a lot of grey matter here, although I am sure it is being thunk up as we type...

Vigilant observation, have you not observed where the Republicans stand, where the majority of Democrats stand, the President has specified what he wanted. How much more do you want?

I guess YOU have been asleep the last 6 months. I heard LOTS of debate and saw many GOP amendments passed and all were heard, discussed and many adopted.

Nite -

Again, you're full of crap. Fully half of the Republican amendments were not allowed to come to the floor, just as the four bills they wrote were not allowed the light of day to strike them.

Of the ones that made it to the floor, a scant handful (relatively speaking) passed and none of them were of any significance.

You're a party drone, and you don't even have a clue what you're talking about 99% of the time.

navy: Not only is it written behind closed doors without debate; OUR money is being used to bribe those that are behind those closed doors to vote for a bill they have reservations about. And this is legal? How long will we put up with this thuggery? I'm thinking, not much longer!

Start with Pakistan,then Yamen & last Iran... Bin Laden has to be in one of them!!!

niteowlet hears everthing, from under the desk!! What kind of cigars you like??

If it is, please please please let a little bit hit the majority of those in Congress. Perhaps it would knock some sense into their heads.

Amazing ignorance.....this isn't about raising the minimum wage, or even taxes to provide even more handouts to the growing number of third and fourth generation of malcontents...this is about power. It is about controlling everything in your life, because what in your life could you not associate with "heath care"?

That is right Sally, nothing.....

The Prez is lying, the Prez is lying............

I hope you weren't directing your comments to me. I agree with you that this whole thing has been about power. It was about power when Medicare and Medicaid were enacted over 40 years ago - nothing much has changed.

No Sir or Maam.....I was trying to help Sally.

Sally-1456674

The sky is falling......the sky is falling..........

Yep. You got that right. That's been the democrap scare tactic since day one. How many people are "dying everyday" again?

Wonder why it doesn't bother you that thousands are "dying every day" and this POS bill doesn't start till 2014. LOL!

How "compassionate" of you.

Actually SALLY, many parts of this bill will start immediately.

Nite, I know the taxes start immediately, what else does?

Let's discuss the details when we know them. I listened to a very informative panel on CSPAN over the weekend. Many experts said that many provisions of this bill will be implemented immediately.

Much better to see the final version.

You don't know squat, Nite.

You've proven that over and over and over again.

Better run, hadn't you? Chris "my leg is twitching" Matthews is on.

Dou Really: We have already lost our rights... Obama is trying to give it back to the People!!!

Give the rights back to who's people Imk?? Who in their right mind will stand for being fined or thrown in jail for not having health insurance? Next thing you know Obama will be passing out meth to the soldiers!!

Representative Joe Wilson, a republican from South Carolina was probably the most famous for saying it. However, I have heard it said many times before and many times since and I have to say that I agree.

However, you all are lying as well, because the GOP invented this tactic and got away with this MANY times.

Do some homework.

Nite - how about waking up! Democrats can screw us because the Rebulicans did? It's time they are all shown the door. Let's pass a bill banning lobby money first before they pass another piece of legislation, especially one that affects 1/5 of our economy.

Bush was the one that gave This Country away... Now Obama is trying to make up His mess!!! Just as Clinton had to with Bush Sr...

Can’t do it, EPA says tar is a hazzards material. But, we can still run them out of town in November.

Where is that former VP Cheney. He should be FIRST.

We just got rid of Him... Nice to have some one that wants to help the People!!!

And all that follow these corrupt trash bags!!!!

Acorn crapola, too much fixed news

Covering the lunch shift huh?

Or is it FreedomWorks?

Yeah, I have been here since 1984.....

Are you on shift now? Good, I like you, you have wit and seem like you can take a joke....

Yeah, where's that lil fish eater at?

Healthcare Bill, I defend thee!

MMMMmmmm.Good organic Acorn Burger.

Hey! Whats up guys? Did you miss me?

Seems like it.

Too bad for you. Clarke Ong is one of the smartest and wisest persons on these boards. He is NOT usually partisan and seems to always get his facts straight.

Too bad you're ALWAYS partisan, and NEVER have your facts straight, Nite.

Yea, I'm doggin you. Because you spew too much crap for me not to, and I'm getting a kick out of the level of ignorance someone is willing to display while acting like they know what they're talking about.

I am sure we disagree on a lot, but I agree with you on this. While I am against the public option, with out it there is no difference here except to whom each lobby group cuts the check...

If the public option was in there, and passed, at least I could have seen something tangible for the tax increases and increased nanny state....

This will do nothing for those that need it.....and nothing for those that don't but have to pay for it.

Surely you will accept the fact that the Republicans are responsible for the misinformation and mess left after their input.

Abandoning the Democrats and Independents will allow a GOP power grab, nothing more. You like MORE of the same. The GOP is the SAME OL' SAME OL' leftovers from the FAILED Bush administration. Probably worse.

Who are you kidding? I can't tell where Democraps begin and Republiturds end.

They BOTH live in the sewer.

We need the Public Option... But we need to pass a Medical Plan first... Then they can get it in after wards... Otherwise things will remain the same!!!

It will never happen. Think about it. We will be handing over at least 30 million subscribers to these insurance companies. Can you imagine how much money they will have to buy our politicians then?

Amen! They will stop at nothing to put corporations in complete control of this country!

Check out George, testing the waters of peoples sarcasam......I like it.

Dammit george... put that away before somebody loses an eye.

Corporations are already in control, that has been made ubundantly clear.

Now if every one would please take off the rose colored glasses.

Now that is sick... Bush took more rights away just to get into office!!! Majority doesn't rule anymore...

stop-Are you saying by now you don't know which politicians are being honest and which are being controlled by insurance? You don't know where the AMA stands on healthcare? You haven't seen any debates on healthcare on c-span? You don't know which provisions are being fought over in Congress? Please pay attention to all the media not just fix news and you will learn many things.

Both the Republicans & Democrats Congress members are cheaters, just this time the Democrats have carried their agenda to far. This administration promised transparency, no back door deals, and both sides of Congress would be included. THIS WAS A BIG LIE. If Obama had not made so many promises then we could not fault the Democrats & Obama.

They lie like the Devil himself.

The devil knows how to lie and get you to believe it.

Not so blatant and in your face.

Obama is an amateur.

he did that... Plus He also had other Professionals at the table too... He talked with both the Congress & Senate... Now He will talk with them again... He has done everything He promised so far... Including Iraq will be finished soon & so will The Prison!!! That is a lot more than Bush Jr did...

Actually most of the people do not want the Public Option.

alljoy. What polls have you been reading ? Ones from the Daily Kos, or Moveon.com?

Michael* name 1 poll that says people want public option.

alljoy

Obama will take care of you. Your appointment with Dr. Jack Kevorkian has been set for 1/7/2010 at 9:15 AM. Please arrive at least 5 minutes prior to your appointment to fill out the one page Obama Care Insurance form. All services are provided free by the Tax Payers of America. Have a great day!

The only way to control the insurance company monopolies will be some sort of public option.

The only way to control costs is to have a public option that WILL compete with private insurance.

If private insurance goes BYE BYE because they do not want to give up their HUGE bonuses and profits, then so be it.

I value human lives far more than I value and insurance company profit.

Look at their stock prices Owlett. Some of the insurance companies have seen their stock prices rise over 100% in the last year. They aren't going anywhere. You don't have enough money to buy a congressmen, the insurance companies have enough to buy them all.

3 People were able to put a stop to it!!! It isn't over yet... It can still be put back in...

2013, if the Libbies win........count on it. President Pelosi has a nice ring to it (barfed in my mouth). Dont think for a second that is not on her mind. She really is pure evil......

Some things are better left unsaid for fear they will hear you!

Were you ASLEEP at the wheel during the Bush Dictatorship???

Uh Oh, somebody heard you. Now you did it, they are back to blame Bush. That's really old, he's out, gone kaput! What does he possibly have to do with what is going on with health care reform?

Why did you choose to be a carpenter?? You must have known that your job is not guaranteed and you need to save for the slow times.

Most construction workers I know are having a very bad time and would be recipients of heathcare benefits if this legislation takes hold as planned.

Why are you shooting yourselves in the foot??

nite, If I am not employed, I don't qualify for this heath care bill. If you know so many people in construction, then you know that there is a lot of down time. Even union carpenters lose their med. bennies if they are layed off and then have to go Cobra. The more time they spend not creating jobs, the more Americans will not qualify for this bill. But we will all pay for it!

P.S. I never said I was finantialy destitute. I started saving for this a year before Obama was elected. I knew things were going to get worse!

By the way nite, it is none of your business why I became a carpenter, the only thing you need to know is without them, you would be sleeping in a cave.

Nite can't stay on topic.

No this is the first step of giving the Country back to the People!!!

Spoken like a true lemming.

All They have to do is take the best part of the two bills and get rid of the trash!!!

Yes. Get rid of the trash bill, start over and do it right. Did you people not read this article?

They are trying to decide if they are going to let illegal aliens buy insurance through this plan. H3LL TO THE NO!!!! If you are going to shove it down our throats at least make this insurance for legal citizens of this country. They need to get the illegals out of here.

They are talking premiums of $2500 a year and $4000 annual o-o-p max. Most people that HAVE A JOB can get those types of benefits. Create some jobs that provide health benefits.

Pelosi said she wants the final product "to ensure affordability for the middle class, accountability for the insurance companies, (and) accessibility by lowering costs at every stage.

Really Peloser? You're eradicating the middle class from this country. They all live in freaking China and India now. Are we going to pay for their heallthcare too?

Perhaps if MOST of you naysayers were actually discussing healthcare reforms, you might make better comments.

You are all discussing POWER and who has it, who wants it, instead of healthcare reforms and WE ALL NEED THAT.

Do we? I thought only 10% of Americans did. By the way IT IS NOT HEALTH CARE REFORM. IT IS FEDERALLY MANDATED INSURANCE. There is a big difference that some people cannot distinguish.

That is where you are wrong... The power is being given back to the People!!!

Any government that will not make legislation public is a government to be feared! A feared government is a tyrannical government that must be removed without delay! THAT explains why the Republicans were removed from power, doesn't it. 2000-2006 was just OVERFLOWING with transparency, wasn't it? Go soak your soreheads, you ignorant conservative dummies. Sickcare WILL be replaced with HEALTHcare for all Americans, not just for the rich who rape the poor to pay for their laps of luxury.

You know that's not thrift store merchandise. That's the best lobbying money can buy!

Your probably right.

Eh... over here... this here babys**t brown overcoat... it can yours if...

I bet O's got one too.

I bet they are made out of real Republican hair too, they have been skinning them long enough !