It has never worked if you ignore the rest of the world.

Only $940Billion?

Has anything the government has ever run been on budget? Anything even close to being on budget?

GM, Chrysler, Banks, Omnibus, Obamacare and the dreadful failed stimulus... you would think by now that China would cut us off. We have nothing left. We are broke. The worst is yet to come. Wait until schools don't have money to pay teachers... stimulus #3? California is going under, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, North Carolina... The USA just swiped the VISA for another trillion dollars that we don't have.

We have to stop the spending! Government is here to guide us and protect us not ensure that every citizen has a house, an education, a car or healthcare.

I'm not sure if you're trying to come against me here or not.

Regardless, the problem would not be caused by shortages of "money." The problem would be caused by the worthless value of said money. When the government pays this bill, they better do it by borrowing or directly taxing us. If they decide to pay through inflation (printing money) it will be the end of this country.

Not broke! Broke is when you don't owe anything but don't have any money either. We're worse off than that, we're in debt and it's going to get even worse.

Both of my parents receive essential medical services through one of those, "systems that have never worked." My grandaughter has insurance and medical care through one of those "systems that have never worked". Without those systems my parents would either be dead or living in abject poverty (or with me). My granddaughter would not receive the healthy preventive care and monitoring that she needs to grow up healthy.

These systems work and help people every day. Just like the roads that carry us to and from our work and every where we go it is an essential infrastructure that helps our country, our economy and most importantly our people to live better lives. Your pronouncement sounds more like a religious dogma than a rational examination of the facts

I was for reform, especially reasonable costs for pre-existing conditions. That is not what this bill was about.

This is just another gov't program that will end up costing more than the so called estimate. And who does not have to be a part of this? Oh, that would be Congress because they don't have to get this so called HC Reform plan.

All that are so happy about this, just wait. You will find your care will be less than what it is now and your taxes will be much higher than you expect.

Welcome to the civilized world, America. Lots of 3rd world countries and the rest of the industrialzed world beat us to this day. Think how much of a disadvantage it's been to our businesses to have to foot healthcare costs while their businesses had those costs picked up by the government. This bill makes sense for our people, our deficit and our economy. I hope everyone remembers who opposed it - just like Medicare and Social Security - a fact the Republicans seem to have conveniently forgotten this week.

Yeah, I hope the majority of Americans that oppose this do remember!

RealAmericansFirst, I hope everyone remembers who voted for this bill, especially in Nov.

If Medicare and Social Security work so well, "RealAmericaFirst" then why is it that my grandmother is STILL required to pay $691 just to receive her meds and dialysis so she can keep breathing daily?? Boy, they sure are helping her out. It doesn't work.

This wasn't about Republicans vs. Democrats. This was about far left liberals versus conservative liberals. Fortunately for Obama he was able to buy off the last 20 or so votes that he needed... FROM HIS OWN PARTY.

they won't, historically Americans vote based upon economic standing at the time of the vote. Whatever happens, its likely to have little to do with healthcare.

And I hope everyone remembers what is wrong with Social Security and Medicare now. We will be experiencing the same issues years down the road with healthcare. Also, now that all americans are required to buy insurance my health care costs will increase for my family of 8. How does the government expect us people who are middle class to budget this?

For the economists out there, what % of health care is inelastic? What effect do the rules of supply and demand then have on the "real"/"true" costs of health care?

THANK YOU!!!! Nancy Pelosi who knew spending 940 BILLION would help us to balance the budget you are sooooo wise!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How foolish do you think we are? To say that it saves businesses money when the government pays for employee health coverage is classic one step thinking. Businesses are the only thing that produce money which the government taxes to pay for the coverage. But now businesses will have to cover the cost of not only productive employees but also everyone else.

Well RandySR, if you decided to sit at home on your BUTT like so many other lazy people, they'd probably give you a handout. But because you do probably work and decide to take responsibility for your children, you are somehow being punished.

The Republican party was against Social Security in the 1930's...The Republican Party was against Medicare and the GI Bill in the 60's...The Republican Party was against the Civil Rights Act and Martin Luther King holiday. The Democrats (again) did the right thing. Thank you.

Ian

You are correct - this system won't work and worse yet - it will result in lost jobs for small business - the real back bone of America.

This bill is a complete joke!

Josh:

Finally, a homo-sapien sapien. Also, the American public is extremely foolish. Government funded insurance that won't be paid by businesses through the people! HA! We ought to tax Jupiter while we're at it!

As a nurse who works with High risk infants and children, I see this day as a sad day. Already they started taking away assistance. I see it as the government will finally say when they are in control, it will be like some countries in Europe. You will not know if the Dr. is coming in to heal you or if the Dr. and/or the family does not feel you are an asset they can come in and take your life whether you think it should be done or not. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5517492&page=1
Our representatives of the people did not listen to their people. If congress and the house doesn't have to use this health care then why do we? They have many choices and we will not have any. The wise choice would have taken 1-2 items worked it well and then see how it does. We are going to choke on the "hamburger" system rather than to take small bites in overhauling the system. It doesn't even go into play until 2011-12 and some later than that. Closer and closer to a socialistic/communistic society.

Any of you naysayers want to buy private health insurance instead of going on Medicare when you are 65? If so, I would be very much in favor of a bill allowing you to opt out of Medicare, on the condition that it's a permanent opt out. You would be compenssated by a refund of your Medicare withholdings over a period of years.

Did anyone notice they slipped the student loan program in also? They take over our health care and our ability to get a loan for our kids. They will snap us into line one way or the other. I can't wait for Nov!

Okay, all of you economic historians, when was the last time that the United States of America Declared Bankruptcy. How near bankruptcy is the Nation of Canada because of its National Health Insurance program? Why did the absentism of Ford Workers drop to nearly none when the company instituted total health care. How much would the competitiveness of the U.S. manufacturing sector improve if the U.S. shifter health care from the manufacturing sector to the public sector? How much more productive is a healthy workforce than a non-healthy workforce.

Lourox:

Social Security - going down hill. It will be bankrupt soon as there are now only 3 people paying in for every 1 taking out!

Medicare - the Democrats are gutting it by $500 billion dollars! It's already hard enough to get quality care with this plan!

GI Bill - Well... no comment. Shame on you, Republicans...

Civil Rights Act - Okay, seriously, this doesn't touch my wallet

Martin Luther King Jr. Day - ... um, well... I don't really care.

:P

If Israel has it,why can't we.

Ian - examples please. What are "these systems", that never work?

And yes, I'm definitely "coming against you", in case you care.

God bless you Mr. President. Your are brilliant. How proud I am that you are our leader!

We are so screwed.

Remember in November! Democrats did this to us!

hey vet, when was the last time you went to the V.A. hospital? i think we will all get a chance to see how well it works now.

Vivian: This is because the Dems had to dumb down the bill to try and get a few Republicans on board so it could be slightly bi-partisan. The democrats who were against the bill did not like it because it was too conservative.

What are you talking about RealAmericans1st?

Those 3^rd world countries and the rest of the industrialized world are no where near the level of power and wealth that we now will formally have.

I can't wait for November, either. I'll enjoy watching the Republicans campaign on a platform of rolling back protection from cancelled health care policies, arbitrary denial of coverage, and pre-existing conditions clauses. We'll all come to our senses and vote for a return to unmitigated abuse at the hands of an industry that's exempt from anti-trust regulations and other consumer protections.

Oh, and that student loan thing? It's cutting out layers of banking profits on student loans, lowering the interest rate by as much as half, and getting the money directly to the student from the source - which has been the government (through the banks), for decades. Yep, that's bad...right, conservatives?

BEBE-

I'm not talking about the people who have been layed off due to our Broke country- I'm talking about the illegal aliens that invade our country and have babies, don't work and take OUR money we are working for. If Obama would rid our country of illegals, there would be MORE for our OWN people or for the people who enter the country the legal, respectable way.

By the way, if you think this bill WON'T cause MORE unemployment YOU are ill-informed. What do you think employers will do? They will lay people off, or choose to hire only part-time employees so they do not have to provide coverage for them and avoid the (unconstitutional) penalty fees.

I believe ALL people should be able to get health coverage at a reasonable price. I do not think that people with terminally ill children or terminal illnesses should not be covered; I just believe there is a better way to go about this whole thing. Preferably one small step at a time instead of overwhelming our country in the economic state it is currently in. Please don't refer to me as a bigot, I have a big heart for people but I have seen people (even in my own family) that cheat the system in order to get more money that they don't have to work for. THOSE kind of people are what ruin it for the terminally ill, unemployed, etc etc.

Wingartist:

What is the point of great power if you're rotting from the inside. To quote Peter's Uncle: "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility."

It's amazing to me that SO many people still don't understand what is in this legislation. Now that it is basically law, I think people will slowly come to realize that the GOP was lying through their teeth, just for political gain. I think the republicans are the ones who will end up paying the political price, if not in November, then in the decades ahead. Mark my words.

I personally would have preferred some bi-partisan support for reform. But not a single GOP representative or senator has voted for this legislation. That's what I'm going to remember. Right now, they may think they did the right thing, for the country or for various political considerations. They are wrong...unanimously.

Don't forget it, once the facts and truth about this remarkable legislative accomplishment finally come out.

Yeah, the government never gets anything under budget, just look at the cost of the 7+ years of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and you'll see the "bill of goods" Bush and company sold us. It was suppose to be quick and cheap but it's been neither and during much of that time they couldn't even find records or account for how the independent, private contractors spent the money that was freely given to them. The government doesn't have a good record at all.

If you have every waited for your check to come in so you could go to school then you would understand....some vets couldn't go to school this year because WE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY FOR THEM TO GO! I know 2 that are waiting now. We are borrowing money from China to run this country and gas prices are rising again which along with the ARM mortgages the dems insisted the banks offer will probably cause another melt down. Real estate is bracing for more foreclosures this summer as the next wave hits and yes if gas is $3.50 to $4.00 you will see even more people go under. This health care bill does nothing to lower the price of insurance or doctors.....it just fines us if we don't have insurance.

This Democratic congress has got to be the most stupid, devious, crooked, reckless, arrogant, fiscally irresponsible bunch of bastards I have ever seen! All I have heard talked about is slamming the health insurance companies for making a profit and covering pre-existing conditions and the garbage being spread by the Dems has been complete lies and mistruths. Here are the facts:

(1) Insurance company profits: there are lots of insurance companies however there are only a very small percentage of those companies that actually sell and administer HEALTH insurance and the number of those companies has steadily declined over the past several years. Why is that? It's because they can't make a profit. If they were making so much money don't you think there would be lots of insurance companies jumping into the health business so they could make these "huge profits" too? Insurance companies who sell health insurance are usually looking to make 2-4% as a target and most are lucky to do that. Just how much of the insurance premium do you think is profit? Did it ever dawn on you that perhaps the reason premiums are high just might be because claims are extremely high and possibly the amount left toward profit might just be a small part of that great big premium? Well idiots - that is the case. FACT!

(2) No Pre-existing conditions - Makes a lot of sense doesn't it? Rationale is to not get on the plan and pay premiums until you have a problem that will have claims costs guaranteed to be more than the premium paid in. Good deal for the insured. Bad deal for the insurance company that is already has low profit expectations. A lot of stupid crap has been spread around by Dems harping about pre-existing and oh, all the sob stories we have heard. First of all, it is already established in the system that once someone has satisfied pre-existing conditions initially, then it is waived as they purchase new coverages just as long as they don't go more than 63 days without having coverage. Sorry folks but health insurance is not a banking account and it is not a right. It is a privilege and it is a business, and one that impacts 1/6th of the economy. The industry is also a huge employer of lots and lots of people that may likely lose their jobs because of the idiocity of these illiterate Dem congressional fools.

(3) Tort Reform - The single-most prerequisite to having a meaningful, responsible healthcare reform bill. Where is it? It's not there because this POTUS and his other Democrat bastards are in bed with the trial lawyers and they will rag on the insurance companies minimal profits and refuse to implement tort reform? Pi*s on these vermin.

(4) CBO - Idiots! No one believes that this remake of the entire healthcare system in this country is going to cost less than a trillion. How do these morons double count, fail to include the cost of the pork that has been attached to healthcare reform and justify how they are pricing the effect of social security funds for Medicare. Would congress have rammed this through had they had an accurate cost number which is more like 2.4Trillion for Obamacare? These are complete fiscal irresponsible bastards that are willing to wreck the economy over their arrogance and determination to destroy this county. Obamacare as it relates to Healthcare Reform is the equivalent of destroying the house and the foundation and rebuilding it in order to replace the toilet. Makes just about that much sense versus other very reasonable methods that could have been implemented on a bi-partisan basis (as suggested at the "bi-partisan summit" (what a frigging joke that was) and accomplished the basic goals of creating more competiveness and solving pre-existing issues without having another huge government takeover. You drones out there had better wake up.

Obama and his Dems haven't got enough sense to wipe their a*s! Well get ready because the sh*t has hit the fan and we're now coming after some of you irresponsible congressional folk. You call it "Historic" but I think it is better called "Tragic". If you voted for this, your ass is grass and we're getting ready to mow. Don't even think that this is going to settle down and that we will forget the way you have rammed this through from the beginning a year ago. You devious, backroom-deal making bastards are going to be held personally responsible as well as politically responsible.

Scarletto:

Right. I'M taking your choice away concerning health care. After all, it's not like we're going to be fined for not having health insurance... right? ..Guys?

But seriously, I spoke rashly in my original post, it's not that these systems never work, it's that these systems usually tend to react slower and do not operate as efficiently as a free market.

Now, before you jump down my throat about the current health insurance industry's problems: I understand that the health insurance industry needs reform and is not running efficiently. I simply don't think that the government forcing people into the insurance market is the way to do it. That is all.

The best way to make these self apointed Nobles understand that they are killing us, is take this Obamabill and shove it up their royal rear ends. And take their insurance away and make them have to use this "new great" Obamabill!!

So tell me will they be run as effectively as Fannie, Freddie, Amtrak or the Post Office? Those are models of efficiency and fiscal propriety. And don't tell me that this isn't a government take over of health care. They are on record that this is only a first step and that they will be pushing the envelope even more.

Just wait until you have to fight the some government bureaucracy for a student loan or some treatment you need to have but has been denied, we'll see how responsive they are.

I halfway feel that this country does not deserve the benefit that this bill will bring. There are so many willfully ignorant people in the US who happily believe the propaganda and lies spewed by News Corp that it seems to me it would be better if the Republicans took power again and finished off this country as they very nearly did during the Bush Administration.

I mean, if we, as a country, are so easily manipulated that we would believe a pack of nonsense and actually reject legislation that will prevent impending economic disaster, reduce the deficit, and help all of us be healthier and happier, then it would probably be better if we allowed the Republican party to sink us all the way to the bottom.

The Democrats insist on keeping us afloat, with this stuff, though. I mean, reversing our headlong rush to economic collapse, implementing time lines and exit strategies for Iraq and Afghanistan, revitalizing the economy with legislation that creates jobs and now fixing our broken health care system, too? We all know with this propaganda machine Rupert Murdoch runs, the Republicans will be back in power and screwing it all up again in no time. the Republicans mess things up so badly no amount of propaganda will keep them in power, the Democrats get into office and fix it up, then the Republicans are back to ruin it all again.

Well, like Rupert Murdoch, I have dual citizenship and a European Union as well as a US passport, though, so it's no skin off my nose. There is a growing number of countries where the people life happier and healthier lives of better quality. It's easy for me to get comprehensive health care in any one of them if I need it, too!

@Zack S.: The war in Iraq has not even hit the $1 Trillion mark, so I don't know where you are getting the "Three Trillion" number.

Secondly, what does the cost of the War have to do with this Healthcare bill? Nothing. Pointing at one bad waste of money doesn't justify creating another bad waste of money. Money the Government just doesn't have.

"These systems that have never worked" - do you mean the ones in Europe and Canada, the health systems that cost these countries less than half of what we Americans spend on health care? with people living longer lives? The ones that have taken care of my in-laws so well that they taunt me about how bad the US system is? If "these systems that have never worked" have truly never worked, why is the US the only industrialized nation that doesn't have one?

I don't understand the part about "government take-over" - no one explains how exactly this bill will take over health care. The public option - which my son really needs in order to stay in college - was voted out, and even that was only a choice to buy. Isn't the government already in the business of providing health care - Veteran's Administration, Medicare, Medicaid?

I wish people who oppose this would argue the facts, not vaguly worded, angry statements.

What most people need to realize is that insurance or the subsidizing of anything has never lowered the cost of anything. What it does is allows the prices to remain but the cost to the individual goes down by shifting the burden. The initial thought is to help people who seem to have been left behind but the real effect is to allow the industry to maintain it's income. If it does both it seems like a win-win. However, down the road the industry will lobby for the need for increases and it will get them which means the method of paying for this social program will have to increase. What congress has created is another utility company. The insurance industry is happy I would think, they get another 34 million customers and they could care less where the premiums come from...until it looks like they will lose profit. Then they will ask for a rate increase and get it. This all makes health insurers government controlled entities to an extent and I'm sure they will be poorly regulated just like the banks.

aquatone instead of just saying that they are lying why not tell us what they lied about.

I can tell you that this bill is a horrible thing and give you reasons for it.

1. This just attempts to cure symptoms instead of the reasons behind health care costs. There is no tort reform at all which would lower medical malpractice insurance costs, which in turn could greatly reduce health care costs. Some surgeons that do risky ops pay 50% of their costs to medical malpractice insurance.

2. Pre-existing conditions. I am not a heartless bastard but understand that forcing the same price for pre existing conditions is a bad thing. The cost of this care is not magically lowered, it is poured onto the rest of the taxpayers of the US. Now sure, that one person thats care costs 100 grand isnt bad for the 200 million taxpayer, but the 100,000 people getting 100,000 dollar care adds up to 100 billion. thats 1000 dollars per tax payer and is a very very generous figure. this goes back to making those 100,000 dollar treatments cheaper. see 1. Should they keep insurance, yes, absolutely. Should they be able to just hop on the insurance train once they get a condition? NO NO NO. If people are not going to have insurance in the future, thanks to this bill, they will be paying a fine, which goes to government not insurance companies.

3. Government beauracracy. This is a huge reason why your costs will go up. There was upwards of 100 million dollars in fraud within just the medicare program... this year. The bill for medicare is much lower than this health bill will cost, thus one can assume more fraud.

Aquatone I do understand what is in this bill, and frankly I can point to many instances of fraud the dems have either put in this bill or told the american people about. Shall I talk about the kickbacks or the medicare 500 billion fraud?

With this bill you can keep you child on your insurance until he/she is 26. That sounds great except there is nothing in the bill to restrict the cost from shooting to the sky. NOTHING! We are sitting ducks for sure.

The systems in Europe and the rest of the civilized are not bad systems to be afraid of. They provide great care for all their people and it is NOTHING like what MusicHoneyBee said in l.21. There are many good things in this bill, and it is not a government takeover. I know there are a lot of confused people who believe the insurance companies and republicans, but they are trying to scare everyone. The costs of our current system is unsustainable and reform will help, especially over the long term. It doesn't go as far as a lot of us wanted, but that is what compromise is, nobody gets everything they want. I am glad they had the balls to do what is right for the country. Republicans wish there was no social security, medicare, civil rights or regulation. They are on the wrong side of history on historical reforms that improve the life of Americans.

Ian,

Speaking of monetizing the debt, that's only one way that the fed usurps the rights of the American people. When you consider how the fed prints away the lives of the people, you wonder how anyone could possibly be happy about the massive costs this bill will create.

Look at what this system does... it grows two new heads for every one that's not chopped off - and none are ever chopped off. But, we've got the good old fed to save us. And, how will they save us? Do people understand how money is created in this country.

People think that US dollars are not backed by anything. But, that's not true. They represent the productivity, the lives, of the US people. Thanks to a brilliant government system, the fed gets to print the lives of the people and transfer them to a banker. The banker did not pay for these lives. The banker took no risk and has no right to issue these productivity certificates. But, they do. They issue them to the American people for INTEREST! It's the only way money get's created - for American's to pay someone else to profit on their own productivity. It's worse when the government borrows from the lives of the American people (which this health bill will force them to do on a massive scale). In that case, the central banker prints the promises to pay the US people's productivity and hands it to the government, charging the very people whose life the money is based on interest which we have to pay in the form of income taxes. We are paying taxes to borrow from ourselves so that bankers can profit! It's a sick, twisted, usurpation of our freedom. On top of it all, these morons can then dilute the lives of the people by monetizing the debt.

What a great idea. Let's just continue to grow government until there is no industry. Everyone will be employed then. Everyone will have health coverage, three weeks a year off, wear the same government issued clothes to work, and owe all that they are to the tyrannical collective with no regard for the individual.

The people with insurance have been paying the bill for those without. You cannot be denied treatment at the emergency room for a serious health problem, whether you can pay or not. Spreading the cost around by making everybody participate and insuring everybody just makes sense. And those unlucky enough to get seriously ill before they get coverage deserve it too. If we can afford to go halfway around the world to fight two GOP wars, we can certainly take care of our own citizens health.

Bend over and grab your ankles america. This is as big a reaming of average working Americans as NAFTA and delivered by corporate america's "B" team, the Democrats (just like NAFTA).

No I'm not a Tea Party idiot. I'm a left winger. Obama, the "vacuous opportunist" and the ruling class's favorite butt boys, the Democrats, have passed a Health care industry bail out bill that will rip billions of $$ out of Medicare and NOT provide affordable health care to most Americans.

The ruling class in America, always a pretty grim and stupid bunch, used to at least have a bit of honor. But now they are devoid of even that. Good luck to me and most working Americans, we'll need it.

Simply put!!!!!!!!! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!! Next stop November. Maybe that will kick the idiots enough. We the people, not HE the person. I have heard that there are lawyers lined up to bring suit against the constitutionality of this piece of @#$% bill. No wonder I am a Republican, AND PROUD OF IT!

We need to get the names of everyone who voted for this and make sure they are spread around....for Nov.

How many of you have ever been seriously ill and did NOT have health insurance???

You would be thanking God for this moment right now if you have!

ScarlettoHara--

I am not going to sit here and argue with you- I have not once pointed fingers to the "democrats" or the "republicans". Did you ever think maybe I'm more of an independent thinker? Probably not; because you are too busy being caught up in the division of this country. I thought maybe I could have a decent opinionated discussion on this site, not a name-calling session.

I do not KNOW that it won't work. But don't you think that if a business owner has to either pay a fine for a full-time employee, or lay them off to make ends meet, they will lay that person off? Yes, this is directed more toward large businesses that can afford it, but the problem is they won't. The Rich will always be rich. They will do what it takes to maintain their wealth.

Please do not try to tell me I am a "republican who steps on people's backs" to get money. It makes me laugh a little considering you know nothing about me yet you are so quick to make generalized remarks.

And your previous statement: "Go to Nazi Germany if you want to take people's choices and rights away! GET OUT of MY America!"- It also makes me laugh because this bill seems to be forceful and give employers little choice.

I am not trying to take rights away. I have close people in my life that need health care and I see the struggles they endure to get treatment. I just think there are better ways to approach this. Perhaps forming smaller bills with great focus and detail would work better than the overwhelming strategy that seems to be happening.

I do not claim to be all knowing, I am doing my research so I can make a proper informed decision on how I feel about this bill. As for now, I am pretty uncertain that it will work. So, I think I will stay here in OUR America, and hopefully you will learn some better tactics when discussing political issues with people. Yelling and Name-calling generally gets you nowhere.

I'm 100% sure Rupert Murdoch is already on it.

It's amazing to read about the continued Bush bashing. Folks, he is out of office and the debt he left behind is nothing compared to what this Presidency is leaving behind. Seriously, Don't be a blind follower admit the mistakes of your party.

With this bill another Freedom bites the dust.

This whole thing has sent me into a realm of pissed off I have never been in before. And all the day before my 50th birthday. Countrymen and folks on the newsvine, write your Congressmen and get them to enact state legislation that will dipose this law that "the great pretender" and his czars have forced us on to. Remember this when November gets here and vote anyone out who supported this bill.

AMEN!

trueblu7 Your grandmother is probably in the donut hole. That is where you have to pay for your own meds after a certain amount is reached. This bill will start to close that donut hole next year.

We ought to tax Jupiter while we're at it!

May as well, Ian (@1.20). The government apparently thinks you can pull the money for their health racket out of Uranus.

Forcing anyone to buy health insurance is unconstitutional: nothing in the Constitution allows the government to force anyone to buy any item or service, especially one that they have a hand in. It was the right intention, but completely wrong execution.

@Pist: Auto Insurance.

Wait until the "immigration reform" Obama has promised in exchange for votes on this bill adds an ADDITIONAL 12 million people to be covered by this bill, as well as being covered by ever-extended unemployment benefits, and also being covered by an already over-spent Social-Security. Once U.S. creditworthiness is downgraded, which is closer than you think, the house of cards will begin to fall.

All they need to do now is nationalize the police...

Why should anyone be surprised? Decisions made for us have been going against the individual citizen for quite awhile now. Just watch and see what it does to the economy in the next 6 months. Anyone who thinks about it has to realize that it is going to hurt the investment sector and put the skids on jon opportunites.

Only if the economy rebounds will Democrats have a smidgeon of a chance for elective power. So... let's see what happens when Wall Street opens tomorrow and in the next two weeks. See what the real investors have to sat about it.

I think it is an economic boondoggle. But I'm just one guy who hopes that it doesn't put more gray clouds in the sky. Spring is here!

@Zack S.: Still bringing up the myth that Clinton had a budget Surplus? There was never a surplus, Clinton ran a deficit in each and every year he was President. This is very easy to look up. Also, when he was getting closer to a balanced budget, it was due to the Republican Congress that didn't let him spend anything more.

Amazing what you learn when your only news source are not just left wing blogs.

I am on a fixed income and un-insurable in the open market. My only current option for health insurance is the State HIPAA program. This year, in spite of being in good health and never having made a substantial claim, Humana raised my premiums from $305 to $515 PERMONTH; a 64% increase in a single year! How can anyone justify such a rate increase??

Humana says they are now charging their HIPAA clients at small-business rates. Oh Really? I am an individual, not a small business. (Fat lot of good that distinction makes.) Health care costs went up 12% last year, not 64%. My income did not go up 64%. Where am I to come up with an extra $200 a month, and what sort of rate increase do they have planned for next year??

The current system destroy lives and bankrupt families. Something has GOT to change. The idea that insurance companies should be able to change "whatever the market will bear" implies that insurance companies should be free to jack up rates until people can no longer pay; to face bankruptcy or death when they get seriously ill. That is just both immoral and wrong. Yet even when you can afford coverage, that does not mean you will be covered. The practice of recendency as a cost-control measure is growing rampant, at a 1 in 25 chance that your coverage will be axed in your hour of greatest need.

I, for one, am glad to see someone trying to do SOMETHING about abusive Health Insurance practices. No one should ever again face the guilt of utter family financial ruin, or death, because their coverage was dropped when they needed it the most. And no one should have their rates jack up by 64% in a single year, as has happned to me. Unless your are in prision, the military, or Corgress, it can also happen to you. Think about it, and give change a chance.

-Science_1

-Science_1

No-one trusts their government... until their social security, education, un-employment, or insurance improves their life... This is why the standard of living in this country is so great. Do I think that the self-serving and greedy (the very wealthy) should be cut down a notch (monetarily) to help out the other-serving (the poor)? Yes, definitely. You don't get to the top by being fair. You either get a good education (in which case your worth the money) or you apply cut-throat business tactics. If your smart, you know you don't need 200K a year to survive, and you are a D-Bag if you hoard it. Tax-em, make every-one else' life easier. This is a democracy, and they make up some 10% or less!

How is the an attack on anyone but the "ruling class?" It taxes the greedy to help the needy. I seriously question the values of anyone who opposed this.

Constitution what Constitution ? King George in power again ? Time for a Revolution !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hello November

The reason Medicare and Social Security aren't working well for people's grandparents and family are because it's being sabotaged from the start. People supposedly want these programs to work, but are so against paying for it. If you don't want bridges to collapse and people to needlessly die, then we need to pay for it through taxation. If you believe the current wars are necessary, then we as the American people must sacrifice through taxation to pay for this endeavor. For 8 years under Republicans, spending ran rampant (the war counts as spending!) and with no regard whatsoever to getting this money back. The conservative segment of our population seem to believe that this money just appears for us to use, and we won't have to pay anything for it. Things don't work this way.

You can't take the wheels off the car, and then complain that is doesn't drive correctly. If you want Government programs to work more efficiently, it begins with paying as we go.

People like to cite Social Security and Medicare as examples of Government failures. How about our police, military and fire departments? Should we do without these "socialist" programs? If we don't pay taxes to provide for our police, then yes, crime will go up. You can't fault these programs for their flaws and shortcomings when you aren't willing to pay anything to try and help it succeed in the first place.

Is there anyone still listening to 'economists'. These people never raised a voice when banks borrowed money to customers who couldn't afford it.

Science:

I hear that insurance companies don't compete across state boundaries and this bill doesn't address that issue. Competition leads to price decreases due to undercutting. I truly hope what they passed today helps you, but I'm not quite sure prices will be going down any time in the near future.

VOTE OUT every fool and thug who forced this on America against her will. Vote them out en masse in Nov 2010. And Nov 2012. The same thug fools who already have destroyed the economies and regressed the policies of the states of California, Illinois and the Northeast to bankrupt them (and those states are now bankrupt) now gain speed and hateful control (the whole point of the chicken mess, control) to wreck their destruction on the remaining states...Also ENCOURAGE the efforts of those who will file lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of the Sunday Anti-Health, Anti-Life, Anti-Liberty, Anti-Pursuit of Happiness Government "Taking.". This chicken mess may be what those from Muslim countries and with Europhile tendencies (and those sorry weaklings who caved in to regressive pressure) see as the way forward, but NOT AT ALL will it do for freedom loving Americans who prefer the American Way (not tyranny, not takings, not forced purchases and services forced on unwilling citizens) and who reject the way of this Euro-socialist mess that will only fail (socialism is a failure everywhere) and will finish the task of bankrupting America.

Exactly who do all of you think pays for the medical bills of those without health insurance?????????? That would be the rest of us, in the form of higher taxes for government programs that pay these peoples' bills and those of us with insurance pay increasingly larger premiums to pay for the increase in medical costs. And why do medical costs keep rising, well, government programs only pay a fixed amount or % of the costs submitted by healthcare providers. And insurance companies keep decreasing the amounts and % that they will reimburse for charges submitted, some as low as 23 cents per dollar. Hospitals and doctors all have expenses, such things as staff, medical supplies and equipment, facilities costs, etc.. these don't go away and as a staff member of a hospital, I don't work for free. So if a hospital is only getting 23 cents per dollar then they are going to raise the prices to try to cover their expenses (just like justifying insurance companies making a profit), hence why you have the $1000 aspirin..............

So having no insurance should not be an option unless of course you don't ever plan on needing healthcare treatment. But if you do, don't expect me to pay for your neglect of your responsibility for yourself and your bills. And maybe we should give providers the option of not caring for you if you can't afford it. We don't want socialism now do we.

Thank you Economist.

I hope so too. Relief, if it does come, will not happen for me until 2014, when the individual portions kick in. I don't know how I'll hold on until then; but even if I am squeezed out of my health insurance before then, four years to help is reachable. It is much better than four decades.

These systems have never worked? Tell that to a Canadian.

Isn't there anything we can do to recall some of these people who have done just about every illegal trick to get this bill passed? The people don't want this bill at all and they persisted on working and bribing congress to pass it. Isn't this unconstitutional to deliberating go against the will of the people. There must be grounds for impeachment as well. I believe that this is a sincere attempt to destroy our country as we, the people, want it. It feels like we are in a dictatorship at present. Please if there is anything anyone can do to stop this disgrace that is going on in Congress and the White House to save our country, please share with us very angry populace.

I was pissed, but after I thought about it, I realized, come November this would be the end of Obama's Communist Party, that's if he is not impeached by then.

RIP American Republic

http://oldphartbsa.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/22/4049451-rip-american-republic-17-september-1780-21-march-2010

Since when have the people known what's good for them anyway? If 'we' as a species knew what was in our own best interest, credit cards and payday loans wouldn't exist and the housing meltdown would never have happened. We want it all now, but we don't want to pay tomorrow. Unfortunately tomorrow always arrives. I'm not thrilled with some of this bill, but I think it will slow down our national healthcare 'balloon' payment in 10-15 years. So for the good of everyone over the long term this may beat the alternative which seems to be pretending its not a growing problem. So really the question is, would you rather be faced with 5 years of wrangling with this bill until it gets ironed out to make most people satisfied, or would you rather face a complete healthcare meltdown in 10-15 years?

RealAmericaFirst: do you thing they have such great health care in these 3rd world countries? Try living there, hope you don't need a good doctor.

Who do you think is really going to be paying for this health care? for all the illegals, the lazy people sucking off welfare as if it were a career? We are, that's who! The hard working middle class America, the people who will do just about anything to support themselves and their families.

Sure there are unfortunate people out there who have lost their jobs and healthcare for their families and that sucks. But to have to pay for all the low life bums who are looking for their next handout from the Gov. a.k.a the hard working tax paying citizens, is just outrageous!

We're all going to be screwed as the quality of health care declines in the country! My uncle lived in Europe, he almost died waiting for a very routine simple operation! He had appendicitis, it took over 6 months to get the surgery he needed. Get in line, hope you don't die waiting for the doctor.

Mass. has failed miserably with a similar health care, they will fine you if you do not have health ins. and you will pay based on your household income no matter what the circumstances! AND you pay to cover the people who can not afford it.

I hope the 38 states that are against this bill tie it up in appeals for years until we can get rid of that dope we call the president!

Nice how they are exempt from the new plan huh? why should the give a rats ass if it goes through or not..the gov. is not looking out for us, they don't care about the people, they care about money and they prove this every day!

Don't be blinded by the bull, read the bill, every page...most of the people who voted have not. It would be nice if they listened to the people, they'd see that most do not want this and at least half of the ones who do are just looking for their next handout!

How this bill was pushed through despite public opposition will not be forgotten. Now, we'll start seeing---I didn't know that---I didn't know the cost would be that high----I can't pay that---and on and on. Amazing, BO pushed a bill of goods on the public a little better than a year ago and he did it again. Some people just never learn.

Steelman just made the most convincing argument against the for-profit healthcare system (see above)!!! How can a company profit when it has to insure sick people?

In a capitalistic society, a business is entitled to make a profit unless it is a non-profit organization. Even then, it has wages to pay and expenses to run. Hospitals make a profit taking care of sick people. Doctors make a profit taking care of sick people. If insurance companies didn't contain our medical costs, we'd all be broke. They are a business entitled to a profit.

Jeff P. This, and all the other government funded programs are just going to further the woes of our weakened economy. It's going to get so bad that the great depression back in the day will look like a time of riches. I really am sadden that this was passed, and the blind continue to be blind, refusing to see truth in the matter.

We could pay for 3 health care bills with the amount we've spent on war. Health care for all Americans is just right, it is a right not a priviledge. It's never important until it effects you! Just ask the thousands of white collar workers who never thought they would ever have to worry about retirement or health care benefits, just to find out what happens when their jobs went away or folded up. It is socio-economic discrimination. Those who have the resources get the benefits, those without, suffer. This is not what America should stand for.

I am so frustrated with our government! I agree that we needed something, but not this. I can't say that I am excited knowing that now since I have a "Cadillac" plan, (heaven forbid a company might actually try to take care of their employees) I'm sure that I can kiss that goodbye. Thanks alot, really happy to know that I get to be punished because these guys are so out of touch with reality and so driven by politics they have lost sight of what this was supposed to be all about....THE PEOPLE.

Why do I even bother to work? It seems that I give all of my money away to the government so they can do things that I don't agree with. I can't understand why they were so dead set on passing this stupid thing that no one wants. I was a hard core Dem. until all of this. Now I feel like I have to change my ways, personally I am sick of both parties but if I could I would vote Rep. in a second if it could stop this blatant disrespect to not just us but everything this country stands for.

It's very telling - the comments that have been collapsed in this thread.

David rose and slew Goliath once more. Instead of the people standing and cheering for him, they hide in fear that the the giant will rise against them. It seems unfair that they will enjoy the spoils of this war along with those that supported the efforts of the brave against the mighty. Such are the facts of life.

I'm Canadian and have lived in both Canada and The United States, and I think its a great thing that was done to have this passed!

Its all new to you guys so you are worried and scared about it, but believe me its a step forward and this will be the best thing to ever happen to your country, if anything it could help take your country OUT of financial crisis ... as long as you pay your Medical bill monthly, everyone in the US thinks that we Canadians have FREE healthcare, it is free to the blind eye but we actually do pay for it, its call MSP .. MEDICAL SERVICE PLAN of Canada and its about $40 a month if you are over 18 years old and you have a job, if you are on income assistance or you are below the poverty line which is about 20,000 dollars a year here then its free, Im 27 years old and Ive had my "Care Card" its our medical cards you get at birth, I have been billed since i was 18 years old and i owe them about 1,600 which i have never paid but I will.. one of these days, however I had my baby in the hospital 5 months ago i got a private room, when I needed surgery i got surgery 5 years ago, when I go to the doctors or wlak in clinics i just give my care card and i get UNLIMITED health care.. and cannot be denied PERIOD!

believe me, you're scared cause its new to you but once it gets started and all the bugs are worked out it will be the greatest thing you ever thought possible and the benefits for you and your children and childrens children will be priceless!

You say it will not work! But who are you to say You have to wait and see! Because you are a closed minded republican and the Dems have won... you will do anything in your power to make it look like a sham.

Your Republican President Bush never did anything for this country except to bring us a bad economy!

So let our new President Obama take care of things now and lead us to what once we were! " A great nation"

It will take a little while to get things on track but it took a little time for the "Republicans" to screw it up!

SO SCREAM ALL YOU WANT REPUBLICANS! WE DEMS ARE HERE TO STAY! Because you have done only wrong for this country!

YEA! It passed, get over it already. This has been needed for along time. The PUBs had the chance for 12 years to set up a Health Plan when they were in office to do it their way. They lost their chance and now they can live with it. Ya snooze you lose. Pubs and GWB put this country in the crapper plain and simple, by closing their eyes and padding the pockets of all their buddies.

Finally, at the eleventh hour, the media is labeling this bill "insurance reform". This does nothing for cost, so it is not health care reform. There is no real victory here, as nothing will be accomplished except redistributing some of the money flow. People that cheer for this are simply ignorant. Yea! We won! - Nothing will happen except lowering quality of healthcare and more people will end up suffering in a system that is still broken. A waste of both time and money.

Lurox history lesson the Democrats voted against the Civil rights Act, go read about it, they republicans placed woman rights in their platform about 2 decades before the democrats. Social security- half of the republicans in Congress at the time voted for it ( Nancy could not get even 1). The Democrats have messed up as much or more than the Republicans there are no saints in this crowd.

the right to live a healthy life and be able to CONTRIBUTE to the economy for many years. novel idea. so funny to me that all these countrymen of mine, blinded by nationalist right wing views they learned on tv are so opposed to something, everyone else in the world already has. i'm sorry, but isnt the euro, a young currency, somehow worth more than the dollar. come on fellow americans!! open your eyes!! dont let your country be scared out from under you. know where we stand globally without blind arrogance guarding your ego! thank god the people with pre existing conditions can now be insured, as that should be a human right. read to learn, watch to rot.

I think Vivian put it perfectly.... What a nightmare for Americans.... Anybody who believes that Bill is constitutional either can't read or can't face reality. Our forefathers were completely against big government. All social issues such as Health care is strictly a state issues, never intended to be a federal issue. Federal law makers can't make deals with specific states, nor can they force Americans to buy anything, states maybe, but not the Feds....and it just goes on and on. We all know this isn't constitutional, anybody trying to argue it is.... just screams ignorance.

this was passed by "representatives of the people" who felt they knew more than the people who elected them and didnt want it. i hope everyone remembers this come election day. the government has screwed up everything it has tried to run over the past many decades. there is no health care reform here. only penalties for insurance companies who are trying to maintain a very modest profit margin. now with that endangered the insurance companies could just go out of business. why should they have to provide coverage at the same cost for the high risk individuals who refuse to stop smoking, like our illustrious "chairman obama. why should i have to pay higher premiums to help pay for the idiots who continue high risk behavior. now they are already looking at "reform for housing insurance. they dont want people living in high risk areas to have to pay too much for a policy. all the others will have to pay higher premiums so the poor folk can keep living in california and florida where their home is destroyed every year by hurricanes and quakes. "spread the wealth" health care was only the beginning for the socialist republic of america.

It works in Canada, Britain, France, Germany, and every other industrialized nation...all of which have lower per-capita health expenses and longer lifespans.....

The health system the US labors under is shameful, and something has to be done to prevent it's getting worse.

How do you know this will never or has never worked? It has nevber passed!! Bunch of whining little boys arguing on the playground to see whose marble is bigger and faster than each other!!! WHat a bunch of babies!

The "REAL" reason for these protests is clear - and it has nothing do do with the health care bill!!! Those FOLKS' real hate for people of color showed its ugly head last night! That is the REAL reason!!!

From Ian, the economist, and the author of the original post (115 comments ago): "But seriously, I spoke rashly in my original post, it's not that these systems never work, it's that these systems usually tend to react slower and do not operate as efficiently as a free market."

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I'll reiterate: examples please. Just because you say it, doesn't mean it's so. If you are right, you should have a few quick examples, right off the top of your head.

I'll give you fair warning: if you cite an example of a slow or inefficient government program, then you're going to have to name the private system that did better at providing the same kind of services, on the same kind of scale. You can't compare a small, lean-and-mean, limited-scope private system, with a gigantic all-inclusive government program, and claim the former is somehow more "efficient". It probably isn't, it's just smaller. You also can't use a hypothetical situation and pretend that "proves" anything. When it comes to the kinds of government programs we're talking about, I don't think there are going to be very many examples of privately-run versions, but according to your sweeping generalities above there must be, so go ahead and fire away.

In this particular case, if the US health care system as it now exists were working remarkably well, no one would want to change it at all. That's hardly the case. The free-market health care system has raped and sometimes destroyed health care consumers in this country. I won't even get into what the "free-market" just did to the economy; that's for a different day. But when it comes to health care, I'd rather have a slow, expensive, lumbering public system that did the right thing for the people of this nation, than the kind of "free-market, free-choice" and very piecemeal private system that lets better than 25% of US citizens drop right through it's cracks. I'm one of those who will likely end up paying more as a result of these reforms, and I'm proud to do it.

IMO, reform will eventually improve overall health care in this country for EVERYBODY, and reduce costs at the same time. There will be hiccups along the way, but we were already heading towards a pretty bad case. So, better to do the right thing now, and actually try to get on top of the problem, rather than just sit back and pray that the free-markets Gods will spare us, if only we worship them a little harder.

Government, smart enough, COME ON!

Don't get me wrong, but it's very telling that of all of the votes so far on the poll, 55% are against this bill. Seems to me the politicians did not listen to their constituency for the sake of a Nov. vote.

My suggestion? Get your bags packed--you won't be at the Hill much longer.

I guess I would have like to seen more research put into the monetary figures for this bill. I think they said it would cost $1 Trillion? I like how all the Beck Heads are up in arms about this, but dont bawk at a $3 trillion dollar debacle called the Iraq war which we also paid for with our countrymens blood.

What isnt being said is the other cost , are you ready for $4.00 a loaf of bread since the bread companies and the truck drivers will all have to get or be forced to buy government insurance. How about $6.00 a gallon gas . these things no one said a thing about . i have insurance but the company im with already said they will drop it due to cost and told us , " you can get , buy your own insurance from the government now." this was a benifit we earned now its going to be gone, do you think we will get a pay raise to cover the cost , nope ..along with if we decide we cant afford insurance the government will now fine us for not being able to afford it. something wierd there ..good luck america , this will go through and cost us huge.

Hopefully this solidifies Obama's one term presidency! I am from Massachusetts and we sent a clear message in January that we did not want health care in the form presented. My congressman Barny Frank ignored that message. As a Democrat and member of my local Democrat Committee, I can say that in November, he has finally lost my household's vote and so has anyone else that help inact this garbage. I will be campaigning for the Republicans in this next election!

The opposition to this bill has been short-sighted. The U.S. will see, over the coming 20 years, a huge net savings via this law-to-be's provisions, as more and more Americans reap its benefits. People with cancer will live longer, children's health will no longer be in jeopardy, and the health AND education of our college kids will improve.

Let's face it, folks, death is unavoidable. But we can prolong the inevitable through good health care - sometimes, by decades. Medical-related bankruptcies, too, are about to shrink.

There is much to celebrate if all continues to go well.

Too many people in the media and in this thread seem to be criticizing the supposed cost of the bill. The NONPARTISAN Congressional Budget Office report actually shows that this will save the government money in the long run. So, the bill does NOT cost the government $940 billion. It is predicted to SAVE money.

If you want to understand the economics of the bill, you need to read the CBO report yourself. http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/Manager'sAmendmenttoReconciliationProposal.pdf

Don't believe the lies that are being told about this bill. Read the CBO report yourself.

When the millions of baby boomers enter the Medicare system and are unable to find a doctor who will accept them due to reduced Medicare payouts, what then? Will the government start vilifying doctors so they can start setting prices for procedures? And please don't forget that this is the same government that determined mammograms didn't have to be done until age 50, supposedly to save women from the heartache of "false positives". What a crock.

If you think every medical expense will be covered by this bill, you are daydreaming. Just as with medicaid and medicare, you need a supplemental policy to have 100% coverage. Poor families will get healthcare but will also receive a bill for the part that is not covered. Yes they may get tax breaks to buy health insurance but it will not be 100% coverage just as what happens today with medicare and medicaid. These families will still not be able to afford healthcare because they know they are going to get a hefty bill. They will not be able to afford the supplemental policy either.

Thanks to this bill seniors will now pay more for their supplemental policies because government is cutting benefits that the supplements will have to pick up. I predict an increase in these supplements by 50%.

The numbers from this survey speak loud and clear that the majority - almost 60% do not want this bill and see the follies. I for one will never vote for another democrat no matter how good they are and how poor the opposing candidates are.

As a letter from Catepillar indicated this bill means more job losses. Many of us who are now employeed will lose our jobs. More job losses. Thank the democrats for decimating this country. Backdoor deals and arm twisting. Obama is a dictator along with his liberal democratic party. A sad day for America!

Ian......you are an optimist. God bless you....however, the government has failed in EVERY social program, and EVERY business-type venture it has undertaken!! This will be NO different! We ALL will begin to pay eventually!

I pray this is REPEALED should the memory of this be remembered come 2012! Get ready for businesses to stop coverage! Get ready to see Dr.'s STOP seeing Medicare/Medicaid patients! Get ready for small businesses to STOP hiring due to more taxes! Get ready for MORE taxes on the middle class when the COSTS can't be covered!

32 million uninsured my *ss! More like 15 million....the rest being illegals, and the young who CHOSE to be uninsured! The rest could have been covered through the government WITHOUT this ridiculous piece of crap!

Now insurance will be provided to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally. Read some comments from a judge who pointed out some ridiculous items:

** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.

** Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

** Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

** Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.

** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counceling.)

** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on:

"Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick 'fix' to make the plan financially sound for their future."

Honorable David Kithil
Marble Falls , Texas

Hope & Change????? EVERYBODY will be paying more one way or another. The ones who support this bill are just too ignorant to see the intrusion, and taxation, and higher prices they will pay as a result of government!

Yeah well you republicans whined and bitched, a public option would have been cheaper on our government. All I wanted was to be able to buy affordable health insurance because of my preexisting condition, through a non discriminating system.

Regardless our system is broke, people whine about how we live in the best country in the world... WE DON'T. Most of these morons have never stepped outside of this country.

Virtually every other country has abolished our system of health care, and for good reason... it does not work! Health care bills is the number one reason people file for bankruptcy here.

The Systems never work because there is always so much PORK attached.

POSITIVES: are the good benefits that all agreed were needed such as insure all American Citizens (not Illegal Aliens), cover pre-existing conditions, some parts such as covering children immediately, etc.

;NEGATIVES: No transparency; Long Term Costs will penalize our Great Grandchildren and generations to come; Student Loans (why ?) Cut Medicare by $400-500 Billion; Vote Buying for Sweet-Heart deals for Nebraska, Louisiana, Vermont, Unions; (incidentally- why did all our Democratic Senators not hold out for a Deal - my State Illinois could have had one also - why not your State too ?), Section 3405 of the bill, page 1000 or so mandates setting up the Government Panel for Medicare that CAN NEVER BE changed (this has never been done in our 235 years but Harry Reid has it in there), non transparency as even out "Honorable Elected Representatives" apparently don't know or understand what's in the bill they voted on.

37 State are planning to sue over several aspects of this bill, Sweet-Heart deals and forced coverage among them.

CONCLUSION: Once the Citizens / Voters of the USA find out what's really in this bill (if an amendment isn't added to make disclosure illegal) the proverbial horsefeathers will hit the fan and those that voted for the negative parts will have successfully run for un-election. The Democrats just followed the Pied-Pipers: Obama, Reid and Pelosi over the Cliff on one of the most important pieces of legislation ever considered by the legislature.

The Democrats changed rules as 67 Votes are normal in the Senate to Pass bills, got it to 60, the after Brown went to reconciliation, then added section 3405. What else is in there that goes against the US Constitution ?

Doctors who are worried about money: a) get no sympathy from me, and b) will not turn their noses up at millions of patients insured through Medicare. What do you think, they will instead focus on all those young, healthy people? Makes no sense.

Personally, I think we should have just expanded the existing and successful (and highly popular, among it's participants) Medicare program to include EVERYBODY, which would have forced doctors to either accept all patients, or lock their doors. You tell ME what they'd do. Walk away, and do what, exactly? Golf for a living?

Like I said, doctors deserve no sympathy here. I mostly respect their opinions (but not on health care reform, for obvious reasons) and their profession, but like I said, they don't deserve much sympathy from anyone.

"CONCLUSION: Once the Citizens / Voters of the USA find out what's really in this bill (if an amendment isn't added to make disclosure illegal) the proverbial horsefeathers will hit the fan and those that voted for the negative parts will have successfully run for un-election."

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You've got that exactly backwards. Once the people find out what's actually in the bill - including you, apparently - the republicans are going to have one hell of a lot of 'splainin to do.

The GOP will likely win back some seats in November, and if so, it will be par for the course following a Dem win in a presidential election. But I believe as the people find out what the law really consists of, rather than the lies, obfuscations and exaggerations they were force-fed by the GOP, they will vent their anger directly toward the GOP, who cast nary a vote for this legislation. The GOP thought the Dems were playing with fire here, but their entire strategy just backfired on them and they don't even realize it yet. Neither do you, I guess.

You'll be fine in the end, though, since you'll have your coverage, anyway.

If I were a entitlement minded American that thought the hard working people in this country owed me a living and everything else I did not want to work for, I would be excited. But since I am one of the hard working Americans that will have to pay for the entitlements I am not so excited.

The community organizer should go back to chicago. I guess he thinks that he can just print more money to pay for his pet project and then tax the hell out of the rest of us because we owe people who don't want to work.

The community organizer and the texas idiot that preceded him have/are truly doing all they can to bankrupt this nation.

Ian-Economist - What kind of crack are you on? Seriously. Do you realize that= the US ranks at the BOTTOM of the list for quality of health care out of industrialized nations? Our rate of deaths due to complications in pregnancy and our infant mortality rate are disgustingly high comparatively. And while you may never have to wait more than a week to get in to see a specialist that is only because not everyone who needs to be seen by a specialist has access to one. The supposed "free market" design doesn't work in health care because it denies too many people access to the care they need to be productive. In fact, it's the "free market" concept and ideology that caused the recession. It doesn't work in any aspect of business.

In addition, allowing health care to be a for-profit industry carries questions of morality. Taking advantage of someone elses misery for financial gain in war is called profiteering and people who engage in profiteering are generally considered to be morally bankrupt. Yet the health care industry in the US is allowed to make billions in profits off of the misery of others and you call it "free market". It is, by definition, profiteering and those who support this system, such as yourself, do lack a genuine moral compass, and are completely devoid of any compassion for your fellow man. You and many others posting here are a shining example of everything that is wrong with the world: greed, hatred, hipocricy and apathy.

BO the spendaholic can now go down as the WORST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY. The Ego in Chief bullied his way into getting what he wanted now the law suits can begin. Impeach the SOB!!!!! Bribery is an impeachable offence.

What did the (idiotic) Iraq war cost? What is the cost of an F-35? Why do we spend as much as the rest of the world combined on defense? It's like buying an Uzi when you can't afford an aspirin! America needs its priorities readjusted and this is a start!

Thinkstraight - then the ENTIRE Republican party is going down too.

Thank God He is looking over us.. Thank god for Our President and Vice president and people in Congress...

Republicans will be Held accountable this fall...It is their Waterloo....

Hate and Discontent,misiformation,Far right Movements and Condoning Fearmonguring and also Inticing Over THE TOP Violence Will haunt the GOP All the way to Fall and also to 2012 and Beyond!................................

Stop smoking crack Tom. Look at the poll numbers and there is no doubt this bolstered the GOP position. As reprehensible as some of the anti-health care arguments got, the only thing that matters to most Americans is that they don't want this version of the health care bill - more precisely the price tag. It just doesn't provide much bang for China's buck.

Aquatone -

coming soon to your favorite doctors. Retiring within 4 years, hope you can find someone as good as me.

Doctors aren't the smartest businesspeople in the word, but they undestand that you can't stay in business if you need $60 for an office visit that the governmet will only give you $30 for.

"These systems have never worked." Your words IAN however I am here to tell you you are wrong. Every other civilized nation has universal health care. Our current system is the most expensive in the world yet we rank somewhere around 30th in quality of care and our infant mortality rate is 37th.

What needs to be fixed is;

1. the cost must be spread over the entire population bringing the per capita cost down.

2. Medical tort reform, including the doctor's right to counter sue frivolous malpractice cases.

3. But above all, the fact of practicing medicine via financial fiat MUST be outlawed and left in the hands of a licensed medical doctor not some insurance clerk with a payment table.

4. Medical Doctors should be nationally licensed so if they are found guilty of malpractice, under the influence, etc. they are banned from practice nationwide.

None of these issue, to my knowledge were touched, and therefore this bill is wrong for the country. The fact is this one needs to be tossed and the replacement reflect the 4 points listed above.

Leave abortion out of thepicture. To have a health reform bill (good, bad, or indifferent) rise or fall on abortion is tantamount to murder. If people can not afford insurance because "do-gooders" killed a plan that allows the uninsured to obtain coverage and they get a terminal illness the "right to lifer's" become murderers.

Ian- speaking about the value of the US Dollar, how much lower can it go?

For my entire life, the Canadian dollar was worth 65-70 cents of a US Dollar. Now the Canadian dollar is the same value or higher.

When the Euro was first introduced, 1 US Dollar could buy 2 Euros. Now, 1 Euro buys 2 US Dollars.

I am in such shock about this bill's passage but I will wake up and fight against amnesty for illegals. We are NOT going to pay for their healthcare too.

Whoever said that the Republicans needed to pack their bags, guess again.

I can not wait for November to say I TOLD YOU SO. The Democrats will be voted out in DROVES.

In fact, what will probably happen is a Republican controlled Congress in both houses.

I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. I am an American who laments the day that this bill was passed.

I too was for some reform but there is no way in he11 that the federal government can require me to purchase health insurance. I'll be like that wall that they are still building bet/ the US and Mexico. I'll ignore them.

They'll want me to pay a fine and I'll tell them that I need a subsidy for that.

You know ... we Americans are very fond of saying we are the best in the world. Our health care system is #37. Most industrialized nations have national health care .. how come we can't do it when so many other countries do? It can be done. I, for one, am a fan of universal health care and here is why: I spent 25 years married to a man with horrible asthma. Made too much money to get any government help - could not get private health insurance. I spent years ... literally years ... under crushing medical bills and pharmacy costs. As a result, we have nothing saved for retirement because it all went to medical. Where is the equity in that? If I'd had insurance, the CT scan might have cost me $330 instead of $1500. Where is the equity in that? The whole system is corrupt and needed to be taken down. It's not like we don't have models for this: Individual states and some cities have universal health care and other types of health care systems.

America
1776-2010

It was a good run...

How would one expect things to work with the way our country runs.We continue to allow our government to be run by people seeking a career in getting something for nothing while we pay for it all. These should all be successful business people only paid for accomplishments.

And how quickly they blame everyone else for what is happening. The deficit over wars and bail outs and on and on are why we can't get secure health and retirement for most Americans. Ronald Reagan a legend? In his own mind and blind followers. Tricle down? A joke.

Please people read and follow more than the daily news or what your influential neighbor tells you. Be your own person and research and seek the truth. There are two sides to every coin and sometimes both are tarnished. But, use your common sense and decide for yourself.

People making asumptions and then blowing off at the mouth with nothing to back them up is tiring. Believe non of what you hear and half of what you see.

Seattle,

And the Govt will get rid of corruption. Hahahahahahaha!

If you belive that you will belive anything.

Damned communists........

The birth of a new nation. The land formerly known as the United States of America is no more. It is now known as the Divided Socialist States of America.

The good news: When in the course of human events it becomes necessary...

The revolution is about to begin.

Ian-Economist Explain then how this type of system is working in Europe and in Canada? People is just scared of change. Many powerful people like to scare Americansjust to achieve their goals. It is time to open your minds Americans. Don't be scare of change, after all what we have been living now hasn't work for us, then why don't trying something different?

It feels lately like we live in a socialist republic. How in the world did this pass?? Eventhough it may take years to show it's ugly head to "the ones" it's suppose to help, I bet Obama's and his Lynchmen are patting themselves on the back. Makes me wonder what in the world was promised to the lagging voters to sway them? I would have never thought that I would see a American President become a Lobbyist????

None of you PUBS have a clue if this won't work. How did you come to this conclusion? SCARE SCARE SCARE that's all you know how to do, to get anything done. Then you still don't do it right. Trusting from your own wexperience in power doesn't count. And down to the bottom line it don't matter what you think now does it? You had your chances to help with this you even had 12 years while in power to do it YOUR WAY. But you are selfish and didn't want anything to do with it. So DEAL WITH IT.

Glenn Davis,

Its that aggressive attitude in shoving this bill down our throats that will ignite the revolution. You asked for it, you'll get it. Deal with that.

Lawsuits pending in 37 states.The people elected state and federal Representatives.Both Republican and Democrat led State governments are convinced the people of these states want them to sue, If was not the case, they would not be doing it. All most Every state that is filing suit had there Dem. Reps. vote yes on the bill. Why did the Federal Reps. of these states not listen to the people who elected them? That would explain the 61% anger to the 22% Excited here. and confirms the national polling when asked if they are for or against this Bill/Law.

We are done and about to be buried.

Farewell to America.

One point Seattle. The #37 ranking has been touted a lot lately. Basically, that was a UN study conducted back around 2007. The key factors were cost, level of service relative to economic status, speed of service, and overall health of the population. We scored no 2 or 3 in actual quality of care measures. Not unexpectedly, our low ranking came from the high cost of care, disparity between service levels of rich vs. poor, and most damaging was the over-all health of Americans. That last bit has more to do with doritos and sofas than our health care system.

I wonder how many republicans will lay it all out for the elections - that they would like to see the end of social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. Republicans were against those too, and said the same lame scare tactics. Let's see how many Americans really support your positions.

I have found one good thing about this bill. It has exposed just how corrupt Washington has become, with the back room deals, bribery, liars, arm twisting and just out and out blackmail. Amazing how the Constitution is being thrown out. Time to clean out Washington or better yet move it to a condo in Kansas, remove all lobbyists and the only perk the politicians get is a travel expense of $1.25 a mile for 2 times a month from home to the condo in Kansas, no side trips of any kind. They can use that $1.25 towards driving, flying, bus or hitch hiking. If they travel more than 2 times a month it is on their dime. Driving through Kansas will give them lots of time to think over any bill they have to sign. which from now on they will have to personally read before they can vote on it (questions will be asked).

it seems like the ones who want this are the same ones who want a free ride and who are career unemployed. maybe they need to replace the migrant workers on the farms with these people if they want to collect a free check and health insurance. There are no more free lunches in the world. maybe it's time to take away the free ride to them and make them pay for themselves. they can bring their kids with them out to the field just like the migrant workers. i'd rather see them put these people to work and give the farmers some free labor in the process. if they don't want to do that then they don't get a check in the mail every month.

Look, this is all very simple. The insurance industry is merely an arm of our current financial system - and the belt of regulation needs to be tightened up or we'll all lose our shirts and pants in the deal.

That's all this is. That's all we're talking about here. Regulating one of the slippery tentacles of the octopus that is a financial industry run amok. As it stands, Americans are *already* paying for the 32 million uninsured at grossly higher rates because their tax monies move through publically funded hospitals and coverage in emergency rooms where the cost for treatment is 3x what it would be through a primary care physician ... made more expensive because those without insurance must wait until *VERY* sick ... and adds to further economic errosion because those people must then take an actual day off from work for an ER visit, lose money that could been exchanged for goods and services, spread colds/flu while at work because they have to wait until deathly sick for ER care ...

This bill adds regulation to at least one head of the financial melt-down hyrda, but adds bottom-up support to a massive drag on the overall economy. These are self-evident facts not amenable to contradiction. I am fortunate because I have the same form of socialized care my family does in the U.K. because I am an American military veteran and I enjoy the Veterans Administration hospitals and clinics. My American grandparents enjoy the same socialized care my cousins in Canada do because they use both Medicare and Medicaid.

I'm happy because this brings those without quality and affordable health care into the same world of freedom, dignity, and equality the rest scream about but are so reluctant to offer another.

Here's what I know:

• Health Care providers provide a SERVICE
• US Post Office provides a SERVICE
• All insurance companies, health care, automobile, etc. provide a SERVICE
• Utility companies provide a SERVICE
• Internet provers provide a SERVICE
• Airline companies provide a SERVICE
• Entertainment facilities and movie companies provide a SERVICE.
• Cable companies provide a SERVICE
• News papers and news organizations provide a SERVICE
• Pet stores, department stores, discount stores, game stores, etc provide a SERVICE
• Veterinary hospitals provide a SERVICE
• Grocery stores, butcher shop, fruit & vegitable stands, bakery shops provide a SERVICE
• Drug stores provide a SERVICE
• Hotel/Motel provide a SERVICE
• Public transportation, buses, cabs, car rental companies provide a SERVICE
• Dentist, Chiropractors, etc. provide a SERVICE
• Sun tan salons provide a SERVICE
• Barber shops, hair salons, nail salons provide a SERVICE
• Child care providers provide a SERVICE
• Automobile dealerships and mechanics provide a SERVICE
• Non-profit organizations provide a SERVICE
• Gas stations provide a SERVICE
• Real Estate companies provide a SERVICE
• Financial institutions provide a SERVICE
• The list is endless

Question? Which of these above mentioned services are a RIGHT and should be subsidized by the government because there are millions of people who can't afford to pay to use these services? Should the government then mandate that all Americans use some are all of these services and face a penalty if they CHOOSE not to participate using these services?

Finally, the cost of living has gone up and has nothing to do with health care! This mandated health care bill has everything to do with providing our government a doorway for intruding more and more into our lives and does not and can not predict what the cost associated with future health care will be! I'm very happy with the health care that I have today, not sure what it will be or look like in 2014!!!!!!!!!

All I can do is laugh...

I haven't commented much at all since the campaign for President. You can say what you want about the Republican party, but since the election I have watched Obama slowly turning the USA into the socialist, liberal, government controlled nation that nobody seemed to fear at the time. It was all rainbows and butterflies and "hope" and "change" Everyone followed the tune of his flute just like the Pied Piper.

As I laugh, I can't help but notice the scores of people who say "I voted Yes We Can" in 08' but NOT IN 12'! You know what "Yes We Can" means now don't you? That's right, you were never intended to be included in the "we" part. What's funny too is I thought the end of the world in 2012 was just a bunch of hype like Y2K...Now, I just can't seem to shake the overwhelming feeling of irony that the date 12/21/12 is not only symbolic of the end of the Maya calender, or the predicted astrological end - but also the "too late to fix 08" end of what is shaping up to be a dictatorship in Washington...

I might as well take my pick of countries to live in now because this one is doomed to be just like them. And to think we have our beautiful children, husbands, and wives out there DYING to protect liberties that are fizzling away one by one? It makes me literally sick.

It is amazing how many people are uninformed about this bill!!!!

Passage of this bill will mean the deep pockets of the insurance and pharmaceutical companies that are underhanded in their support of the congressmen and congresswomen opposing this bill will soon be 'controlled' and kept in line with reality!!

It will also mean millions of families will not have to go bankrupt to pay medical bills!!

WE ARE A FREE COUNTRY! built for freedom by our forefathers and not to be controlled by some mindless self-serving democrat scums and their BOSS, the master of all socialist in this free country BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA! this legislation will be repealed and come november i hope everyone who oppose this legislation to bring down all those DEMOCRATS WHO THINK OUR OPINIONS DON'T COUNT!

I have only one condition, if we are forced to use it, it BETTER be the SAME for the guys who wrote the bill... Oh wait. That doesnt make much sense, how the heck would we have ever had a bill like that passed?

Insuring pre-existing conditions is like buying insurance after you wrecked your car. That cannot be sustainable, how could any insurer do that without going broke. To say that this whole deal is unconstitutional is an understatement and to lie and say they will save money after adding all these entitlements is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Their next target will most likely be the internet. Tax and control is their goal.

To All I bid you goodbye. They have crossed the line of constitutional and federal Intent of the constitution. I am one of these people who cant get coverage for having cancer 3 years ago. Just as the many , I have survived. They needed to change the regulations barring the insurance companies from being able to exclude anyone or limit the coverage- Thats all- this is a mockery and and the beginning of the end of our once great and free nation.

You the selfish and self serving have done this, none other. You deserve what is in store for your socialist agenda.

department of Social security, department of education, IRS, Welfare, Medicare, Student loans and such. It is destroying this country.

Above all else never forget this last line-

A GOVERNMENT CANNOT GIVE TO ANY CITIZEN THAT WHICH IT HAS NOT TAKEN FROM SOMEONE ELSE!!

I pray that we are all not damned to a Lifetime of slavery by our own politicians- Repeal the LAW- Return to the Constitution!!

TREASON
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor—he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city—he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.......Cicero, 42 B.C.

I seriously am uncertain of how this is going to impact me individually, but I am well aware of how "unintended consequences" have always plagued everything the government has ever stuck their nose in where it doesn't belong. For example, the reason most people get their health insurance from their employer now is because the government put salary caps on employers during WW II, so since companies couldn't pay their employees more money, that began extending benefits.

From my review of the bill, I don't see why the younger and healthy people won't just pay the small fine for not having insurance, and if they get sick or have an accident, buy insurance then. This bill makes it legal to do so and they can't be turned away because they are already sick or hurt.

I also wonder how many employers will decide to pay the $750 fine per employee, especially if they are earning less that $88K......and let them buy into one of the government approved plans.......instead of dishing out the $5K per year they are paying now for health insurance for their employee.

The only thing preventing an insurance company from rescinding somebody's policy in this bill, is a $100 per day fine for doing so. So suppose somebody needs a $300,000 life saving operation..........what's the insurance company going to do? Rescind the policy and pay the fine maybe? Say the person lives for a year after being denied the operation.....the insurance company pays $36,500 in fines instead of $300,000 for the operation.....but we all know that insurance companies always do the right thing instead of the profitable thing...right?

"Unintended Consequences"..........the possibilities seem limitless with this bill once you start reading it. What surprises me is how many people there are who don't seem concerned about any of this, because they see it as a political victory for Obama........and with many, that seems to be the most important thing......it is truly amazing to watch.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years."

"Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."

http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

Benjamin Rush: "A simple democracy ... is one of the greatest of evils" (1789).

James Madison: "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths" (1787).

John Adams: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide" (1814).

Benjamin Franklin: "A republic, if you can keep it." – in reply to a question as to what kind of government had been decided upon after the Constitutional Convention had finished its work in 1787.

http://www.americanexperiment.org/publications/2005/20050915yecke.php

The truth of the above statements is being proven by the health care "reform" bill that was passed on March 21, 2010. Democrats and their dependents have discovered and perfected the art of voting themselves largesse from the public treasury—even to the point of buying the votes of representatives and Senators, as well as constituents, from funds paid by taxpayers, present and future.

The U.S. appears to be in the final stage from dependence to bondage----all without a shot being fired from without. The U.S. is in the process of committing suicide as long as voters elect Democrats. A republic? Can we keep it? It is up to us.

The system is broken now! I almost have to sell my blood every month to afford healthcare. First, let me start by saying I love my country and I'm proud to be an american. I keep hearing "Socialism", well I'm not understanding how the system we have in place now isn't closer to socialism than where we are headed. Our insurance companies are running amuck, with no checks and balances they basically run a for profit business that can never fail. Capitalism is based on competition, I think it can do nothing but help the whole healthcare system to have a little competition in the insurance industry.

This bill violates Article I Section 8 of the Constitution by not creating a uniform tax since it excludes people of a certain income level and below. Also, it violates the First Amendment by forcing people to get health insurance, when they can speak their minds, currently, by REFUSING health insurance. It violates the Fourth Amendment, as it would allow the government to seize our assets by taxing us on our refusal or if our health insurance plan costs more than they approve. It violates the Ninth Amendment by taking away our freedom of choice. It violates the Tenth Amendment as it takes a power (mandating health insurance) not specifically granted by the Constitution to the Federal Government, nor specifically prohibited from the States, and grants it to the Federal Government.

66% are angry and think this bill will hurt the economy, 6% dont believe anyone should be required to pay for coverage under threat of penalties. That's 74% against.

But being a lawyer, Obama knows more than the 74%, so he and the Pelosi clan will dictate, what we should do.

If I am being forced to pay for everyone's health insurance, I would like some additional mandates instilled as well. This would include limiting daily caloric intake, requiring a daily regiment of physical activity, taxing the he*l out of synthetic garbage that most people choose to eat, limiting prescription narcotics (zanex, aderol, vicodin, etc..) (Btw how is the entire nation in pain, diagnosed with ADD, and depressed?!), limiting reasons to be admitted to a hosptial or clinic, and MOST importantly when a physician tells you something or gives you recommended advice, dont assume you need a dozen additional opinions because based on your 30 minute internet search and the discussion you had with a few coworkers, that the diagnoses given to you was not quite what you wanted. In addition stop sueing for every little thing. I hate when someone makes $30,000 a year, sues for some idiotic misconception of malpractice and feels entitled to $10,000,000. Anyways, lets see if all the bandwagoners of the new health care reform are still on board if these caveots were to be included.

Welcome to socialism AMERICA!!!

A Government cannot Give to any citizen , that which has not been taken from Someone else!!

More wasteful government spending. How will this be paid for? By high inflation of course! Bettery buy gold, silver, property, or something that will keep pace. Savings accounts will be worthless.

whats the problem.we give billions on the bailout and we're ok.please enough we don't have the money.life will go on and people will be able to see a doctor as needed.I didn't see this much complaining to give the bailout to AIG,GM,Wall St.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

YOU GOTTA LOVE THEM POLLS DONTCHYA PROGRESSIVES???????????????

This is precious.

EVEN THE VAUNTED MSNBC SITES POLL IS DENOUNCING THIS MESS CALLED HEALTH CARE REDISTRIBUTION!!!!

Has anyone shown these poll numbers to Nancy, or Harry, or Steny (what the hell kinda name is Steny anyway?), or to our illustrious Community Organizer In Chief?

I mean come on, even you buffoons that wanted this HAVE to see the error of your Progressive socialist leaders ways.

By a 3:1 margin the poll says NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just like we've been telling you programmed, brainwashed Obama sucklings. These numbers aren't made up. This is on YOUR home turf. This poll is YOURS!!!!!

I know, MSNBC was hoping for some miraculous "CHANGE" of public opinion about this. Guess what?

IT AIN"T HAPPENIN!!!!!

And it won't. This is just more fuel for us to REMEMBER IN NOVEMBER!!!!!

Really? How is this socialism? I would have liked a public option and a more socialistic approach to medical care which is a wonderful system. Not a for-profit, exploitive, capitalistic one which is immoral and unjustified. Look at the documents our country was founded on and you'll find "general welfare" not capitalism or the right to take advantage of sick people. Perhaps when all you crazy baby boomers die, the rest of the country can adopt more progressive and beneficial programs. Definitely a step in the right direction though.

next battle for americas soul... immigration reform.. the next step in the democrats battle plan is to give illegals access to everything and make them legal. nancy will be pushing this next.. i cant beleive that msnbc allows this poll to keep running since olberman and madcow and mathews were all giddy this passed.

why is no one talking and acting towards impeachment!!!!!!!? i demand these demagods be tried for treason!!!! and hung!

You are correct. We hear what the government wants us to hear about the socialistic so called universal health care. I know of two cases in another country where persons suffered because of such "care". One was a young woman with breast cancer. She was diagnosed, but by the time she was actually granted an appointment, the cancer had spread until she lost her breast. The second was actually the husband of a friend. He had a bleed in his brain and had to wait 3 months for the required surgery. Also, on a tv news program, there was a lady who resided in Canada, but she crossed into the US to get medical care for cancer because it would be months there before she could see a dr. Guess we know what we are in for. I don't want anyone telling my dr. that he can or cannot treat me.

YES, I did read much of the bill!

I just want to make a point that the system we have now is a broken institution; just like many other institutions this country has. Why is it that this country is so blind to problems that are within our borders? We cross oceans to fight for our so-called 'democracy'; but we do not even cross the street to vote? How is that other developed countries have universal health care and have less deficits, while we do not, and have higher deficits? San Fransisco has universal health care, and they are more stable than thousands of other cities in the U.S.. I'm sorry but it is time to stop being molested by big industry. It has plagued our country for decades and I'm glad to see that someone in our government has the balls to do something about it.

Most of the other wealthy industrialized nations have private insurance companies that are forced to offer necessary health insurance on a non-profit basis. They work a great deal better than our current system does. They're cheaper, cover everyone and have better outcomes.

This is the right thing to do. It is better for our country. The people screaming about the deficit, where were you when Bush/Cheney decided (there was not even a vote) to spend $1 trillion killing Americans in Iraq.

Wake up morons. It is fine to be angry but be smart about it or you will never get respect from anyone with a brain.

The CBO said this would save money. I am SURE it will.

the government is being an idiot this isnt socialism america and why should we pay for healthcare thats being given to people who dont deserve it like the bums, unemployed, and illegal immigrants, also we could get money by just repairing our roads and building new ones sure it will cost money but those jobs being made can be taxed so eitehr we make money or come out even

The US Armed Forces work, Medicare works, Social Security works, The VA works, the US Forest Service works, What doesn't work is electing right wing politicians who are only concerned about destroying government and giving a free hand to multi national corporations, international banks and wall street firms to rob american taxpayers blind. Then they feed the public with a bunch of balony about how government doesn't work. The US is the wealthiest Country on earth because of our government. Without it there would no civility and no commerce.

Until we the lazy Americans get off our lazy asses and let the politiciations in Washington know that we will no longer take their abuse and that we can and will boot them out of office they will continue to do just as wish and damn the people let them find their own way to survive.

Come on LAZY AMERICANS get off your BUTTS and fight for what is rightfully ours.

The clowns in the Guv'mnt want to spend $890B to save $138B, so how about I send them a check for $138 and they send me back one for $890, now that's something that would work for me.

This must be accounting done by Tax Cheat Timmy and the SEIU after they deduct their ACORN dues. I hope none of you folks need a job to get by on because now small biz can't afford you.

the government as it stands today is broken,we as citizens of this country have to take the blame, if you let government run unchecked, this law is the result.It was my understanding that our fore father's fought and won a bloody,brutal war to free us of government run lives.I do understand the need for taxes ,but its my opinion we no longer have reliable representation in the house or senate along with the white house.Our employees are "screwing the pooch"and were taking the beating,everyday i watch neighbors loose houses,jobs ,cars ,and there pride as American workers in the once greatest nation in the world healthcare reform is not going to bring that back,the only change will be China will own us with debt,and our children will suffer ."Obama loves us all"

Let's see how well the government has run the two big programs they've taken over - Social Security and Medicare;

"The 2009 Social Security and Medicare Trustees Reports show the combined unfunded liability of these two programs has reached nearly $107 trillion in today's dollars! That is about seven times the size of the U.S. economy and 10 times the size of the outstanding national debt. The unfunded liability is the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and Medicare premiums. Last year alone, this debt rose by $5 trillion. If no other reform is enacted, this funding gap can only be closed in future years by substantial tax increases, large benefit cuts or both."

Medicare and Social Security are only a small % of the economy, but now they're taking over 18% of the economy with this bill.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

A major part of the budget goes directly to hospitals and clinics. That is taxpayer money and more payoffs and perks for special interests. And adding 32 million people on the plan who can't afford healthcare? That can only happen with tax dollars. This comes hot of the heels of the bank bailout fiasco, with the slush and $20 billion in personal bonuses. Strongly suspect it is more about political points and legacy building than public service to Americans.

roy - your precious bush destroyed social security by stealing from it to fund a war on terror.

it seems to me that it is about time we require all people to have insurance!! i'm tired of free loaders. we mandate car insurance.

perhaps all you "no" people ought to hang out at hospitals and turn away people who don't have insurance.

I understand both sides of the debate here, but you know what really gets me about the folks I see on the corners of downtown protesting the Healthcare Bill being passed is that they all look like they have nice things. Nice cars, nice jewelry, and perhaps they have nice healthcare insurance as well. Although they are more often than not dressed well and have these nice things they must not have jobs because somehow they have found time to spend all day protesting a Bill that could help millions of their fellow Americans. Maybe it's just me but I think that its about time everyone got their fair share of the American dream.

Absolute nonsense on your part.

OMG People, this is going to be more options to get insurance, with more places offering cheaper insurance, instead of the one big corp. owning most of the ins. co's. that we have now, and charging outrages prices, and dictating what coverage we can have. It is not!!!!!!! the government taking over.!!!! Stop watching Fox news, its brain washing you!!

Then PLEASE don't collect social security or medicare. Both programs work very well, and have for years, despite the cries of "socialism" from the fat cats and the ignorant when both these programs were created.

You know, say what you want about "socialism", but it appears, by all the evidence, that the 'socialists' are healthier than Americans.

This bill is not socialism. It is no different than the 14th or 19th Amendments - both of which were designed to ensure equal rights of all citizens. This bill attempts (although somewhat stiltedly) to ensure equal access to health care for American citizens.

Congratulations Democrats for having the courage to do what Republicans are incapable of doing. I am excited that this HCR will provide insurance for millions of uninsured Americans, regulate the insurance industry, and reduce the deficit. Everyone has worked very hard and long on this legislation. God Bless you all.

To everyone here who is claiming we are becoming socialists need a lesson in politics. every, yes I repeat, EVERY, nation in the world is a socialist nation. It just depends on how socialist you are. Example, the US is more to the right of the spectrum, and a country like the UK is in the middle. Everyone thinks we are a capitalist nation. Wrong. True capitalism would suggest that the government would have absolutely nothing to do with economic activities. If there is any government activity AT ALL, you are socialist.

And the funny thing is, you know that cash for clunkers program??? that was a socialist program. And I know some conservatives who gained a nice new car from this but complain that we are becoming too "socialist." It would be nice if the ignorants thought before they spewed.

In sum, anything that isn't communism or capitalism is socialism. And no one can claim to have either of the big C's (at least in their true meaning)

I think its time to demand that the justice dept. round up our so called rep.'s and jail them for treason against the USA. Then find all their hidden assets and recover them for we the people. After the trial is over hang them on national TV.

I have yet to understand how 938 billion is going to help 32 billion obtain coverage. If my math serves me right, it brakes down to 29 dollars and change per person with the rest of us having to pick up the tab as our cost go up or face the hefty penalties for not maintaining coverage.

In the 2008 election cycle:

Obama carried 78 of the 100 counties with the highest education. McCain carried 88 of the 100 counties with the lowest education.

Why don't we all just ask pres. Obama what the HUG ME program is!!!

Arizona just announced they are broke and can no longer pay new unemployment applicants.....how they gonna pay for all this health care? broken border? My friends can only take in so many...ive already had to live in four peoples homes....were starving for jobs...and no they care more about forcing pain pills than jobs? what the hell is wrong with this picture?

I hear about deficits, insurance coverage, fines and punishments, but where and how are we reforming the healthcare system itself? I don't see how costs for services and materials will become afordable again, read in line with our ability to pay?

OH HAPPY DAY!!!

Now the work can begin to modify the bill and then America will be taking a step in the right direction. For all of you who worry about big government take over, you must remember that the government is us. If you leave every thing to big business and the free market remember that most business is multinational and business is deffinately them.

The most educated doesn't necessarily mean the most intelligent moron. Also there are lies damn lies and statistics... I know which one yours is.

Making a socialist law that could be used to incarcerate innocent Americans is a criminal act.

Nobama must be immediately impeached and be put on trial as a traitor.

Heyyy,

It's amazing to me, that the Congress voted against the overwhelming majority of the will of the people, but then, they always vote to gain things for themselves, not their people.

a) The less government, the better. If we send $100. to Washington, if $5.00 is spent for the reason projected, it's amazing: ** the rest goes to beaurocrats**. (sp?) This is supposed to save money? You bet.

b) I spent 40 years, contributing a pretty big chunk of my paycheck, to fund two things: Social Security, and Medicate. This "universal health care bill, actually is being pushed, so that people who have never worked a day in their lives, will receive health care, for free. There is a **reason**why SS and Medicare are known as "entitlements". We put it in ... we should get it out. **BUT**, our elected congressmen have taken that money, and spent it on other pet projects, and porkbarrel. Even the Social Security Trust Fund, put into being, supposedly to solve the problem ... has long since been spent. And now they want to cover that up, by a major giveaway, for which there is no cash to pay for it.

c) How many of you heard President Obama state categorically, a while back, that "reparations are not enough". Did the news media pick that up? Nope, of course not. "Reparations" would mean that the country has to make amends, and pay back cash to all Afro-Americans, because of slavery Heyy, my family lived in the "Free States", and sent soldiers to die, to end slavery.

Plus which .... ***AND HERE'S THE RUB***: Obama doesn't want to settle for even today's people for the deeds of people in the "Slave Holding States"

****If Reparations are ***NOT ENOUGH***, that means that our President wishes to take a "pound of flesh", ie. destroy the country as we know it.****

d) Lastly ... did anyone else notice the slip that he made one time? He was speaking "off the cuff",. and he actually said, "And you all know what a ***Good Muslim*** I am. "Oh, I mean Christian".

He, and all of the congressmen who represent Afro-American districts, or, have been bribed ... are pushing this bill. Obama even took one Congressman for a joy ride, to no where, in Air Force One!

Obama wants to bankrupt this nation, *and* hand out money to those who have never worked. Another of his quotes .., and I kid you not was, "We have to make things fair. We need to take money from the rich, and give it to the poor." That's just what Lenin, and Marx taught, too.

We need to get down on our knees, every day, and ask the Lord, to please turn this around,*or*, it will be far worse that the Great Depression. And, has anyone else noticed that gas prices are going up again? We got suckered again, into buying new houses, and cars ...and, now here comes $4.00 gas again. ***Plus which*** we don't have any jobs in the country, no wonder there are so many people out of work. ***EVERYTHING IS MADE IN CHINA**.

Hard, hard, times are just around the corner, *and*, unless the Senate holds the line, it will be 6 months before you can even get a mammogram.

Man, we are in deep do-do!

(shalba1@msn.com)

When Obama announced his victory to the American People I had a really hard time finding our flag in his background than I looked really hard and saw he had a tiny flag pin on his chest. Come to think of it Im having a hard time spotting our flag whenever obamas around. Just hope change circle branding wierd. Who wants to play spot the flag....

After he apologizes to every country, for us being such a evil nation, then maybe, he will find it fit, to show old Red, White, and Blue again.

Eric

These systems are not working. They may be benefitting members of your family and many others as well, however they are running deeper and deeper in red ink. The net result is that everyone in the country that pays taxes is giving your loved ones a free ride whether we can afford it or not, whether we chose to or not. Why not fix what we have that is broken first before plunging deper into debt to hand out even more social programs? If this was such a good bill for the country why did democrats resort to loop holes and back room deals to get it passed? Why didn't they give the American people more than 72 hours to read the reconciliation bill? Why was 60+% of the country against passng this bill? The 138 billion deficit reduction over he first ten years takes into acount a rise in Social Security taxes that is already promised to SSA, not health care. The bills also leave out he proposed Medicare Doctor's fix which will cost an additional 208 billion, kept out so the numbers would look more attractive to the naive. Tell me Eric would you purchase a major appliance, car, or home by paying for it for 4 years before your able to take possesion of it ? Not much of the benefits in this bill takes effect until 2014! The taxes start next year. They say that it will reign in insurance companies but it doesn't have any provision to limit premium increases for the first 2 years. They say that 32 million more will have coverage but it won't be in full effect until 2018. I believe we need todo better on health care but this is nt the way to do it. All this bill does is give Obama something he can point to as an accomplishment and the means to let the Federal Government control more of your life. Also why did they sneak ina provision to kill the private lending of student loans? How will he government pay for it? How will they weather the default rate when the loans can't be repaid? Right now the risk is shared by private financial institutions when this is signed the government will be shoulderig the burden alone. Why did they need to make so many sweetheart deals to get the votes to pass this mess? Especially when the democrats have a huge majority. Why did it only pass by 3 votes when there are only 178 republicans in the house? Open your eyes Eric! If you can honestly answer my questions intelegently I'll be willing to debate, but don't fall back on rhetoric or name calling. Learn to think beyond the propaganda and beyond yourself. This puts this nation's economy at risk by ballooning the debt and deficit spending thus endangering us all.

This post I'm re posting, is an example of something "collapsed by the community". It attacks no one personally, nor is it vulgar or inflamatory in any way(except to weak minded Newsvine Nazi's who don't agree with it. Maybe they feel threatened by any opinion that differs from their own, and they should move to China for trying to suppress the opinions of others).

You know who you are, and you aren't real patriotic Americans(no matter what you tell yourselves), if you are censoring/collapsing others peoples posts.

I've NEVER called for the removal of any posts, not even ones attacking me personally. I prefer to leave them as an example of a weak argument/mindset or I just give them a taste of their own medicine. I'm secure enough in myself and my opinions, not to try and remove other posts. Too bad other mental midgets can't do the same.

trublu7:

the $691 your grandma has to pay, is monthly right?

Do you know how much she would have to pay if she didn't have coverage? try 4 or 5 times that amount(if not more).

The reason medicare/medicaid funds don't go far enough, is that medications and procedures are WAAAAAAAAAY overpriced here in the US.

For the amount of money that is taken out of paychecks to cover these programs for us, you can't expect it to cover 100% of every expensive treatment or medicine we might need.

These were the same arguements that attempted to stop social security for the elderly, which is also government controlled. Thank God for it. The government is us, the people who pay the taxes. Then the taxes take care of the people. Government take over is examplified positively in Social Security benefits. I believe that when the countyr voted for Obama as president, one of his promises and changes that he proposed were to promote universal health care. Well, the majority of the country voted for him, meaning that they supported and voted for what he represented, including health care. Who was president when this country's economy almost collapsed? Bush was president. He left a mess for Obama to clean up. When he lied about weapons of mass destruction, and started two wars, costing the country trillions of dollars, no one protested like many are protesting universal health care. That was the time for protest, but you were probably quiet. So you would rather have the country experience a deficit due to a destructive war, or experience a deficit due to universal health care? If there is to be a economic deficit, I would rather see that deficit due to attempts to care for the people, by saving lives, as opposed to having a deficit and a failing economy due to a unjustified war that takes and destroy lives. I thank and praise God for Obama, finally a president who cares for and know how to relate to all people.

As always, the trick of politicians to get garbage in on a vote, is to tack it on to some popular issue. This bill is supposed to be ONLY ABOUT HEALTHCARE FOR AMERICANS. We are Americans. Our politicians are supposed to represent US, not illegal aliens! They are NOT AMERICANS! oblabla is supporting illegals, so who does he really represent? Democraps making shady deals behind closed doors - if that's the norm, why should we spend all our hard - earned money to provide a hugely expensive Senate building? And if WE did that, wouldn't that be considered illegal? It's scary to read what is really in that bill - it would provide insurance to non - US residents - even if they are illegal; the government will have access to your personal bank account, so they can withdraw what they need (that's the end of my bank account); those of us on Social Security will have to attend an "end of life planning" seminar every five years; cancer hospitals will ration care according to a patient's age; the government will specify which doctors can write an end - of - life order; last, but not least, this bill WILL NOT APPLY TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS! Why am I angry? Please re- read my post!

Excuse me - they have been and are doing it NOW, and will continue to do it at their whim. With the expectation, that it will crash the dollar. And when they do not monetize, they buy back the treasury sale within days to mislead us that anyone wants to buy our debt. WAKE UP

AmericanLobo - You must be new to Newsvine. The "community" members can collapse a comment if they report it as either advertising, inflammatory, or no value. Sometimes people report comments that they do not agree with.

The people who work at newsvine have a TON of posts to sort through. Chances are after they get to this thread, they would have restored the post. You shouldn't attack Newsvine for it.

Personally, I feel that the bill does nothing for costs. Great, they accomplished getting people insurance (75% of people who go bankrupt HAVE insurance.) Rather than address the actual COSTS themselves. The bill should have looked at the cost of medication, the cost of malpractice insurance, and the cost of administration.

Maybe we should all just give 100% of our earned income to the government then let them divide it out evenly among the people. Illegals included. That way everyone gets an equal share of everything. I think I'll go fishing while someone else works hard for me. This is where we're headed right? Oh, and I don't have a nice car. Can someone buy one for me?

Well, I'm quite pleased that we've finally done something to rein in the Health Insurance industry. And why does everyone sit back and say "the American People don't want this" or "I thought this was the People's Government, why didn't they ask me what I thought."

I'm the American People Too! And I Support This Bill and I Support This Change!

Just because many of you are pissed off at losing an election, and that we are trying to help people instead of letting them sit and rot doesn't mean that this isn't valid, isn't good, or isn't effective.

And just because you decide to believe the Conservative LIES doesn't mean that the rest of us who have actually read up on the subject are buying into the bull@!$%#.

They said the same things about 1) Social Security - How many of you want to get rid of it, REALLY? 2) Civil Rights - How many of you think it was a bad idea, REALLY? 3) The New Deal - How many of you think it DIDN'T help our economy (ever hear of the TVA?)

In fact, the "Small Government" solutions of the GOP (which have always ended up being "Even Bigger than Democrats' Big Government Solutions") are the ones that continually fail - leaving Liberals and Progressives to pick up the pieces.

I mean, Really - How many of you actually LIKE the Medicare Prescription Drug Program? How well did their Banking Deregulation, Airline Deregulation, Pharmaceutical Deregulation, Energy Deregulation, FCC Deregulation REALLY work for us? Anybody?

I mean, Savings & Loan then Wall Street implosion? Airline Failures and Safety Issues? Drug Ads on TV that drive up prices? ENRON and Company? Cable Bills Skyrocketing?

And You Morons Want MORE OF THAT CRAP?

Sign me up for More Change! Because if the GNoP gets back in, we'll all be up a creek...

Some of the people making these comments seem to forget what is happeneing. We fight wars for those who can not help themselves. We go to countries in a blink of an eye to lend a hand. So long as it does not come directly out of thier pockets. But when it come to helping your fellow americans these same people give bullshyt excuses as to "HOW IT WILL HURT THE ECONOMY, OR THEY NEED TO HELP THEMSELVES BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH" When the money these RICH BUSINESSMEN came from those who bust thier azzez then were thrown away for foreign workers So now they have to give a little to help save a life of a fellow american they wann sue the president. THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED TO BE CALLED AN AMERICAN

I will die and go to hell before I am forced to pay for this health care bull @!$%#. Lock me up and feed me and cloth me and they will still have to pay.

This is our country! These politicians work for us! We are supposed to tell them what we want NOT them tell us what they want us to have. That is Communism. By all the things I have read It looks like the majority of American people DO NOT want this! So why has this Health Care @!$%# passed? Why? We can afford to GIVE money to other countries and we cant afford to take care of our own people. Some thing is wrong with that picture!!!

MIXMAX, I have my own insurance but I have lotta friends that don't, this will help them, you selfish self righteous PUB. If this works out and I'm sure it will, you PUBS will have dug yourself into a much bigger cesspool, BOO! Thanks for making note of my post, I C I hit some nerve there. LOL

Lol, I have to wonder how many people are taking the New World Order more seriously now? It may seem silly, but if thought in a way, kinda makes sense too. Well, my insurance decided to raise my premiums this past year, now I am scared to even check the mail to see what they are going to do now. Looking at the polls, I have to assume that quite a few of the people who voted for Obama are getting kicked in the a$$ too? Karma karma karma, we need to go back to "Ask not what your country can do for you, but for what you can do for you country."

Newsvine is not a scientific poll. The latest scientifically conducted polls show that Americans are almost evenly divided over health care reform.

Which polls? Newsvine is closely related to MSNBC. And I would assume that most of its members would be Democrat and would support this.

ABC said it would it is 51% oppose and 40% agree.

And Rasmussen reports show 41% agree, and 54% oppose.

Not evenly divided.

Never worked? Canada is just one example... less obese, longer life span, and lower medical expenses than the US. The US is the only westernized country without national healthcare... correction WAS.

Once the country forgets all the lies they've been told about this bill and we see what it really achieves, the American people will stand behind it, guaranteed.

This is going to be a disaster for the middle class. Once the courts throw out the individual mandate as unconstitutional, our insurance premiums are going to sky rocket. The bill forces insurance companies to take anyone with a pre-existing condition and they can not charge them a huge premium for it. The gov't was counting on forcing all the healthy people out there that do not have insurance into buying insurance to help average things out. When the mandate is gone and the insurance companies still have to take the pre-existing conditions, the premiums for everyone are going to go through the roof. Those with lower incomes will get subsidies from the gov't to pay their premiums and the rich won't feel the pain. The middle class will still be paying the entire premium themselves and will watch their standard of living tank as their premiums double or more. The companies will not absorb the premium increases for their employees because they can not afford to.

Please remember this fiasco when you vote in November. This administration is going to kill our economy and bankrupt the country. We must get the likes of Pelosi, Reid, and their cohorts out of office as soon as possible. If we don't, we are witnessing the end of the US as a first world country.

JS in SD

Sorry it is too late.

RV in GB:

I'm not attacking Tyler or the people who run Newsvine.

I call those who are collapsing posts they don't agree with(a sizable portion of Newsvine users) Newsvine Nazis. I didn't mean to infer that Newsvine is ran by Nazis or those who like to censor differing opinons. But many people who are posting in the health bill threads are doing so and acting like nazis.

These threads about the health care bill, are the only threads that I've had comments collapsed. I've posted on Newsvine for amost 2 years now. I've laid into some people(who deserved it) in the past. No one collapsed my comments, but I have been warned by Tyler and banned for a day once or twice.

This topic is probably bringing out the wingnuts who try to suppress what they don't want to hear, so they are collapsing comments left and right.

Point 1. How does Obama and the democrats expect the voting public to "warm up" to legislation that forces us to buy a product, pay for it forever, pay for everyone else who can't afford it, and not be able to use it until 4 years from now? No wonder we're screwed.

Point 2. For all those who hold up Social Security and Medicare as example of successful government programs, how dense are you? Both of these programs are unsustainable and going broke fast. Right now there is a man in prison (and rightfully so) for floating the same kind of ponzi scheme, yet the government gets away with it.

Point 3. I'm in favor of making changes to the health care/insurance system that will result in the same market forces that brought the cost of a home computer from $5000. in 1996 to $500. in 2006. Not only are they cheaper to buy, but exponentially better in multiple ways. Its called free market competition, it works.

Point 4. There is obviously a darker ulterior motive for this administration to put so much time and effort into this bill, even though poling data has never put Health Care Reform anywhere near the top of things the American public want addressed.

Point 5. Which would actually cost the average taxpayer less? Covering the small percent of people without insurance who actually require medical care VS paying for 30,000,000 people who don't have insurance, every month of every year for their entire life? Its very obvious to me which will cost less. All the while Obama and congress railed against Insurance Companies, when its all said and done, they lined their pockets.

Well said Dorothy!

So much misinformation. RealAmericanFirst says " Lots of 3rd world countries and the rest of the industrialzed world beat us to this day."

Lots of 3rd world countries? Name them.

So far, I've read that the U.S. was the only "industrialized nation," or the only "civilized nation," or the only "westernized nation," without nationalized health care. Which is it? People can post whatever they can type.

In this particular debacle, the Democrats in Congress, the Senate, and in the Massachsetts legislature, have shown me how underhanded and dishonest they can be. That does not leave the Republicans off the hook either, for many of them are RINOs anyway.

We truly need term limits, to keep out the people who are only in it for their own gain, not for their country.

Now, I'm going to assume that every Delegate and Senator has a cadillac health plan, yet they will not be paying any taxes on it. So, in addition to term limits, we need to stop paying for health insurance for our government leaders. They must purchase their own insurance. We pay them over 4 times the national average income (because we are really stupid), so they can afford it. In fact, I think we should reduce their salaries to just above the national average, and put the leftover towards our debt (over $67 million a year).

Be prepared, only 224 days to go.

Poll : 771,851 total votes !

67% - Are angry and disagree with the Health Insurance

25.5% - Agree and like the Health Insurance

7.2% - Don't have a clue as to hat country they are living in and cannot think without prozac

If this poll is any indication of the November elections - The Democrats better be looking for new lines of work!

Vote the Socialists out !!!

I've never heard so much bitter angry PUBS in my life. BooHoo! You're adults get over it. You had your chance you blew it, somebody had to and it wasn't you. Hoping this will work and I'm sure it will, will drive the last nail into the PUBS coffin. Yea! of healthcare for all that need it. And the Dems did the right thing even though the majority of the public poll on msnbc show that. Shows they did the right thing even at the risk of being voted out. Not many PUBS can say that.

The ONLY accomplishment of the last administration was turning a surplus into a HUGE deficit. What an accomplishment! Anyone care to post ONE positive thing that the last administration managed to accomplish? Please, just ONE... anyone???

Let’s go over the events of the 8 long years served:

Iraq war: trillions and counting, not to mention so many lives lost and families devastated. Did I mention the American people did not have a say in the decision, and that no viable motive was established?

Multiple tax breaks for big corporations and the wealthy: forcing small businesses and the middle class to pick up the slack (increase taxes), thus leaving no disposable income to drive the economy. Did I mention that disposable income is the biggest most important cog in driving the economy?

Wait wait... 'No child left behind': how ironic. Wonder how much did that cost?

How about our favorite... The 'Patriot Act': total violation of privacy and the biggest threat to our domestic freedom. Btw, does anyone know what's contained therein, and did anyone get to vote on it... anyone?

Go ahead... name ONE positive thing accomplished by the last administration throughout their 8 years in office, please enlighten me...

Bonus: Then we can discuss Healthcare Reform

Thanks in advance

Sparky:

Go ahead and look at the WHO health care rankings. Notice that the US is ranked 37th(behind Costa Rica, where I've been living/working for the past 3 years)

You've probably never been anywhere else but the US for any great length of time or used medical services in another country, therefore you know not of what you speak.

Never worked!?! Obviously you've never been to Hawaii!

american lobo:

Just so you know, I'm new to this website and I don't even know HOW to collapse comments. So I truly hope you weren't targeting me. People can say what they want to say- If anything I appreciate others' opinions, it keeps mine in check.

And can someone give me their opinion on WHY the congress folks are exempt from this health care plan??

WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, 1) in order to form a more perfect union, 2) establish justice, 3) insure domestic tranquility, 4) provide for the common defense, 5) promote the general welfare and 6) secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and 7) our posterity DO ORDAIN AND ESTABLISH THIS CONSTITUTION FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Nothin' in there about health care, ergo, it is unconstitutional.

I think people are against it and angry with it because we as Americans have not been given the whole picture, which I feel was wrong. All contents should have been spelled out before anyone even considered passing this but I am glad it did pass. My reasons are that I see this as the beginning of a President finally trying to restore the democracy this country was founded on. That the government is entirely for the people and our elected officials were suppose to look out for all Americans. What has happened is that they have found a money machine for their own personal gain and that makes me angry especially since it is at the taxpayer's expense. If you saw the headlines online the following day after the bill passed Obama is now talking about the gap between the wealthy and the poor. I think he has an agenda and the health care bill is just the beginning. Perhaps because of his race he truly knows firsthand what the working poor and middle class have been putting up with all these years and it makes him mad as it should. I'm happy that one of our President's has the balls to tackle this type of problem because I think until it is resolved nothing will get fixed at all. These rich muckity mucks are finally going to get their paybacks for all the thievery they have commited against the American public. If you have ever watched House Hunters you will see the great divide among wealthy and poor/middle class. Some of these people are buying million dollar vacation homes in other countries for their "down time" while their fellow Americans are living in squalor and starving even though they work 2 and 3 jobs. This is just wrong. I don't begrudge anyone making money and supporting their family's in a good lifestyle but I do think a lot of the wealthy are really overdoing it and throwing it in our faces. How un-American. Maybe that $799.999 vacation home could feed a poor family for more than 5 years. Our job as Americans is to help each other and become a united front of people. Too much division of the people makes us sitting ducks for any other country that wants to come in and take over. Back to health care, I hope you realize that unless you are a millionaire you will not be penalized the way the republicans want you to think. Obama has a plan and his plan is to save the working class, who if I may remind you are the ones building this country and providing all the services. Be patient. Tell the GOP to go screw themselves - they are unhappy because their pockets can no longer be filled by greedy insurance companies and greedy banking personnel. Just look at Goldman Sachs and what their CEO did to stupid George Bush and yes he was stupid to the point that I actually feel sorry for him.

For all the conservative griping about the sure failure of ANY government social programs, you would expect that Medicare and Social Security would be abject failures. Instead they are both so popular with Americans that even staunch conservatives wouldn't dream of attacking either of those programs directly.

If it weren't for Medicare or Social Security, can you even begin to imagine what woud happen to our senior citizens? My dad has a heart condition that requires regular expensive care and I can't imagine what would happen to him if he didn't have Medicare. He worked all his life, even longer than most Americans, and when he no longer had employer based health insurance, Medicare became his only option. My parents pay pretty steep premiums for a Medicare subsidy plan as well, but at their age could never afford a totally private plan. With the aging of our population, Medicare and Social Security certainly face their challenges, but calling them failures certainly would suggest we'd be better off without them. These programs have successfully been the sole safety net for the vast majority of older Americans for decades. Even the conservatives, understanding how important these programs are, have used the repositioning of funds from Medicare to attack Obama's "government takeover of healthcare." The hippocricy here would be laughable if it wasn't so despicable.

This plan is far from perfect. Most Americans will now have insurance cards in their pockets, but will they be able to get a doctor to see them in a timely manner? That remains to be seen, but until there were paying patients to serve, the gap would remain. Isn't that what all market driven capitalists proclaim? Besides, can we really morally argue that well, we won't have enough docs, so those without insurance will just have to stay that way?

It's funny to me that those who oppose the mandate for insurance, strongly support mandates for insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. Without a mandate, and no fear of pre-existing conditions, why would anyone buy insurance until they actually needed to use it? Talk about the end of private insurance. Then you would really need the government takeover that the Republicans are screaming about.

For all the conservative griping about the sure failure of ANY government social programs, you would expect that Medicare and Social Security would be abject failures

Medicare & Social Security are almost broke. We have funds taken out our pay checks to pay for those programs. They tell us that we will get it back..... I don't believe it.

Instead they are both so popular with Americans

They are only popular with the people that receive the benefits.

You do know that with this new health care program there will be big cuts to the Medicare program..........

medicare - broke <br>

medicaid - broke <br>

social security - broke <br>

us post office - broke <br>

cash for clunkers - broke <br>

federal health care... it doesn't take a fortune teller... broooooooke!!!

SORRY TO BE LATE TO THE DISCUSSION, HOWEVER I AM COMPELLED TO SHARE BECAUSE I LIVED WITH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE FOR 16 YEARS, PLEASE READ TO FIND OUT WHAT IT IS REALLY LIKE!

I lived for 16years under socialized medicine in Canada. I never received a bill for a single service, had major surgery and was charged for nothing, saw doctors regularly, no co-pays or parts uncovered.

Now, I live in the States and we pay a premium plus tax exempt money into a Health Savings Plan. It is a remarkable plan and most importantly, cost my family of three considerably less per month than when Ontario and Manitoba took automatic deductions from our checks just like FICA or any other tax. WE had NO choice.

The Canadian system has tanked with about 30 million people. The logistics of 350 million seems impossible; I believe that is the goal. This administration has positioned themselves to control much of the private sector and it will not end here.

I lived it, I know the pros's and con's, and especially the costs. I am not a conservative, however I believe our government has overstepped. This does not give me feelings of security or hope.

The agendas of our current President has angered many Americans, even to the point of threats. That is not how you handle it. You use your vote, campaign for someone who believes as you do and be actively involved in the political system. There is nothing that can't be revoked or changed, we just need to find the right men and women to do OUR will while in office. I hope this will cause more than a tiny percentage of Americans to vote and an even smaller number to grow into campaignhelp for valid candidates. My biggest sorrow is how many Americans refuse to get involved, not to mention vote! Was it not just ove 110 million in the last Presidential election? Where are the scores of qualified voters who sit and do nothing...except complain? You opinion does not count if you refuse to vote.

This will fail. I've seen it, lived it and had friends die because of great waiting lists and defecting doctors. Many now come here for medical help. Most Provincial insurance covers medical issues while travelling and supplements can be purchased, taking money away from Canadian medical personnel and sending it here. Right now I have a dear Uncle dying while he waits and he is a successful man with influence. The little guy has little hope. By the time they get to them they have become so much worse that a cure is impossible. Waiting a year for a MRI or other similar testing, surgeries booked two years in advance, doctors appointments booked so far out that you cannot get in for the simplest of services.

Socializing medicine in the US is a grave mistake. Financially, it will ruin us. Not only bankrupting the US, but to be charged for not having coverage? This is pure insanity.

I am one of the fortunate insured, but I would do anything to help those receive care if they needed it, just not this way, not forced by the government to take away our choices and threaten criminal action. Millions pay insurance premiums for a service they rarely use due to good health, that covers patients who cannot help themselves. I have a friend right now who is without insurance and needs a CAT-scan, she found several places who reduce rates for the uninsured and let payment plans be arranged. I will also be helping her financially. That is how we fix this mess, not by giving politicians the right to make business decisions they simply are unqualified to make. Think of every social program or private enterprise saved and name just one true success story. It can't be done. I have no great hopes for this new health care legislation. After living it for 16 years I never dreamed I'd face all the same problems here. I'm not happy.

GET INVOLVED, LEARN THE FACTS, FIND OUT THE CANDIDATE'S TRUE STANCE ON THE ISSUES, HELP OUT AND ABOVE ALL...VOTE!

IT IS UP TO US NOW, TO CLEAN HOUSE AND THREATEN TO REPLC THOSE WHO WOULD THUMB THERE NOSES AT THE PUBLIC WILL.

brooket-1963 roy - your precious bush destroyed social security by stealing from it to fund a war on terror. it seems to me that it is about time we require all people to have insurance!! i'm tired of free loaders. we mandate car insurance. perhaps all you "no" people ought to hang out at hospitals and turn away people who don't have insurance.

Brooket.. I dont know where you went to school or if you went to school.. But the PRESIDENT CANNOT SPEND ONE THINK FNING DIME. of your tax dollars. ONLY Congress can spend your tax dollars. and ONLY CONGRESS can steal from which they have from Social Security and Medicare to fund SOCIAL PROGRAMS.. Both of these programs need to be taken off bugdget and before we spend one thin dime on anymore WELFARE programs we need put money back in these programs. WE DONT FORCE people to have car insurance .. You only have to have it if you drive and driving is a privledge not a RIGHT.. Anyone can go to the emergency room and if they cant pay they sometimes dont have to.. that is why everyone elses insurance premiums are so high. When you get educated come back and talk to the adults..

Amen, amen, amen!

What's going to happen when the healthcare budget explodes like the Postal Service?

We can't just end Saturday deliveries of babies...

No, They will not stop deliveries on Sat. They will just kill more of them off. With your $$$$

Nope, don't pay much at all, since I CAN"T GET IT.

bamaguy75, do not worry,

The way the pelosi's , President BO, rep kirkpatrick and others are lusting for abortion and pumping megabucks into planned parenthood to maintain their culture of blood and death, there won't be many baby deliveries.

This is great a system that is broke before implementation. We will rob Peter to pay Paul for a few years and then all heck will break loose. The IRS is coming to an account near you. GOOD JOB AMERICA lets give Obama and his left/underhanded crew another 4 years they can ensure the complete economic destruction of America!

Ditto, 3rd mortgage??? going once, going twice, sold! Now get out!

or maybe we could have used 940 billion to secure our borders and drive out all the illegal ALIENS!!!!!

Remember, Democrats did this!

Remember in November!

Does anyone realize that part of their health insurance premiums that they pay now to private insurance companies fund abortions through these companies plans to subscribers?? Anyone willing to totally drop their insurance carry??? But then if you get sick or injured, who will pay your hospital and healthcare bills??? Oh, right, I seem to remember 1 particular minority party leader telling a townhall meeting that you "just go on a government program". What a mess.

Jeff,

Read this.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/upload/7692_02.pdf

Your healthcare costs have been going up every year a lot faster than your wages. why haven't you been griping about this? US Govt. did not cause this. Who did?

If you think the healthcare bill is bad, remember we still have cap and trade, card check, and immigration reform. And best of all: King Obama. Don't believe me....http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.J.Res.5:

This is not America anymore. This is now China. Or Venezuela. Or Cuba.

I am so depressed right now. I don't know where I am living any more. Life as we have enjoyed is gone.

Wow mikea, that has to be one of the most ignorant things I have ever read. Suggesting that all Democrats would abort their babies rather than be inconvenienced & prevented from partying? What you conservatives don't seem to understand is that if all you do is continue to make ridiculous, obnoxious comments about the other side you will do nothing to attract swing voters to your side. You are only pandering to fellow right wingers & turning off those who are undecided or in the middle.

I am so depressed right now. I don't know where I am living any more. Life as we have enjoyed is gone.

Oohh, poor baby. Now you have a clue what a lot of folks went through for 8 years with Bush. I have no sympathy. Besides, you guys were mostly wrong in the past, so I don't really trust your instincts. This is a great day for Americans, and if some of you don't see it yet, you will. The rest of you don't want do anything to help the country anyway.

This is still America, this doesnt even come close to China or Cuba. How dumb can you be? Your still depressed that The GOP didnt win.... the same people that brought this country to its knees...

I know you got that right !!!

My God! To speak of murder as you oppose healthcare reform that will prevent the murder of millions of fellow Americans by allowing them healthcare is blasphemous. May the good Lord forgive you and have mercy on your misguided souls.

I've never heard so much scare tactics in my life by the PUBS. Ya had 12 years to do this your way, so shut up already.

entitlement garbage.

I have NEVER been so mad at my government before. I hope it is not to late to reverse this damage

HA! I have NO health insurance, lost it when I lost my JOB in 2007! Denied health care by two companies in 2004!! Was made to wait an entire year when I was finally approved - oh did I say that I was denied beause I had breast cancer twice?!!! Notice the years of my ordeal!!! Had surgery in 2006 - got laid off and lost my insurance - oh guess what - COULD NOT GET CHEMO because I had NO insurance!!! Now, I ask you whiners - As an American whopay taxes - for over 40+ years - SHALL I CONTINUE TO HEAR YOU WHINE OR SHALL YOU WHINE MORE UNTIL I DIE?

We can come to the aid of foreign countries at a drop of the hat but we can't take care of our OWN?!! What is wrong with this picture?!!!

I am so depressed right now. I don't know where I am living any more. Life as we have enjoyed is gone.

Worth living here? How about worth living no f'ing jobs and now the Son's of B*tches are going to fine us for not have the money to pay for insurance.

Don't like it, Find somewherew else to live!

(That feels so good to say after being told that for 8years)

I don't pay anything, because I have VA coverage. So what am I standing by for?

Nothing but Republican scare tattic

All you have to look at are the cost projections for Medicare and Medicaid when those programs were started...our federal geniuses were just a WEE BIT off the mark with their budget numbers.

Then take a little peek at exactly how much it ACTUALLY cost US taxpayers to provide $4500 'Cash for Clunkers' rebates to car buyers.

Now get ready to watch the costs of this health care mess fly straight thru the roof.

The only good news is that we might not have to spend the coming week looking at news stories with our petulant little president ranting and raving to his fans with his skinny little sleeves rolled and his finger pointing at one and all.

I am an RN (32 years) working for Medicaid. It's time for American's to stop boo-oo'ing and step up and take responsibility. We want our cake (premium health care) but don't want to take responsibility. I am so sick of this Republican mind set of "big bad government take over" and that people should have a choice. Well, here's the truth. Many people don't act and they still get that premium health care when they have a condition that is tanking and then we all pay the cost of the big bills when health maintenance supported by health coverage could have produced a healthier American and a lower health care cost. There is no "perfect" plan out there but give the Democrats huge credit for having the courage to do something right..

"He's the president. You need to support him no matter what you think of him. If you can't do that, you're a traitor to your country."

That's what I was told when I objected to the illegal invasion of Iraq.

To those who've taken to spewing vile obscenities toward THIS president and his efforts to right a decades-long social injustice, right back at ya!

jeme, your cavalier contempt for people who've suffered in an economy that was shipwrecked by investment bankers and insurance companies (AIG) is despicable. "Just get a job," huh? Remember that when ill befalls YOU.

There ya go, Hopeful American - good old Republican patriotism. Discriminate now against people based on their political views. Let's roll back sufferage and emancipation, while we're at it. Thank you for demonstrating so vividly the intellectual brutality of modern conservatism.

Ssssshhhhh... quiet... can you hear it? It's the sound of footsteps pounding their way to the voting booths this November and in two years. We're coming to get ya!!! America may have been asleep for a little while but it just woke up and it doesn't like what it sees.

hear, hear!

Jack jack jack

discriminate? since when did holding people acounatable for there actions become discrimanation? As for the the get a job comment earlier. AMEN I have a life effecting illness aswell. I get my butt out of bed go work my job out of town away from my family in dire pain. so that i can provide for my family. Suck it up freeloaders!!! Insurance is not a right it is a choice!! plain and simple. If you choose not to be motiveated enough to carry it by getting an education or working multiple jobs that should be your decision and that effects of it should be your burden. When did you become intitled to something your not earning?

I'm afraid blindly following the government's lead in this department is only going to lead to heartache. This bill didn't promise health insurance to anyone. What it DOES do is reduce benefits for people already on the gov't dime for care (Medicaid, Medicare) and establish a law allowing the government to penalize you financially for not buying insurance from the existing big insurance companies you liberals hate so much. (Read the 2000+ page bill at democrats.org if you don't believe me.) The very first article first says "no limits" then, two paragraphs later, says, "unless limits were already legally set." Translation: if you didn't "qualify" for insurance before, you probably still won't because there's a very BIG loophole leaving the qualification process intact.

Short is: stop politicizing and polarizing based on "left" or "right" views. This isn't about Bush. (Get over it, he's retired.) This is about what our government is doing today - and the reality is, with this bill, they have increased their power to take our money and our freedom (jail if you don't pay your fine for not buying expensive insurance) while providing virtually no benefit in trade. As AMERICANS we need to pay attention to the bills of goods we're being sold and hold our politicians' collective feet to the fire to be honest, open and clear about what they are selling us. In this case, they've sold us "healthcare reform" but only given us more taxes and opportunities to vacation in our federal penitiaries if we're too poor to pay.

Lawsuits pending in 37 states.The people elected state and federal Representatives.Both Republican and Democrat led State governments are convinced the people of these states want them to sue, If was not the case, they would not be doing it. All most Every state that is filing suit had there Dem. Reps. vote yes on the bill. Why did the Federal Reps. of these states not listen to the people who elected them? That would explain the 61% anger to the 22% Excited here. and confirms the national polling when asked if they are for or against this Bill/Law. BTW>When you are forced at gun point to buy something it means all money is theres and they are just letting you use it.

Albany - so I am sitting here wondering. Where do you get your health insurance? Could it be you are over 65 and get Medicare (OMG - a government program)? Could it be you are one of the lucky ones who has an employer that hasn't yet decided that you need to share the pain of rising health care costs? Most of us lucky enough to still have employer based health care have seen our share of the costs rise and rise and rise. Or, are you a gambler that is betting on never needing insurance cause you will always be healthy (good luck with that)?

I will admit I am lucky, I still have good health insurance that is still affordable through my wife's employer. I am self employed and also work a number of part time jobs none of which provide insurance. If I had to buy insurance on my own, I couldn't get it due to a pre-existing condition nor could I afford it.

Jeme - get a job with insurance? Do you have any clue how hard jobs with any significant benefits are to get these days?

And yes, to all you conservatives, we will see in November. I, for one, am heartened that the majority in congress found the will and courage to do something about this problem in spite of all the noise being generated. You have the right to protest and raise your point of view, just like those of us in the middle and left also do. I suspect that you don't quite have as many people on your side as you think you do. But that is why we have elections, isn't it.

And please, can we stop all the hysteria about communism, totalitarianism, and socialism? Those are just words being used to try and rile people up. Reminds me of the mindless McCarthyism during the late 50s.

Wow, apparently the real story here is how many comments have been collapsed by the community, not for being offensive, but for being of a differing opinion.

That's very American.

"Think you pay a lot for Health Insurance now? Stand by."

Ya.. all the high risk people (15% of the population) getting on the rolls and the cost spread to us at our expense.

"Nope, don't pay much at all, since I CAN"T GET IT."

I just assume you say Thank-you...

"This is great a system that is broke before implementation. We will rob Peter to pay Paul for a few years and then all heck will break loose. The IRS is coming to an account near you. GOOD JOB AMERICA lets give Obama and his left/underhanded crew another 4 years they can ensure the complete economic destruction of America!"

Lets NOT....

"Its called CHARITY! try it."

Charity is not mandated.

Re: Comment #2.38

bull, bull, bull...

Enough said.

churchmouse: that whole Hitler comparison thing is getting really, really old.

Thoughtful thinker (just a name - not a discription obviously)...

And please, can we stop all the hysteria about communism, totalitarianism, and socialism? Those are just words being used to try and rile people up. Reminds me of the mindless McCarthyism during the late 50s

Words mean something. Quite frankly, I was also reminded of the McCarthy era - but for different reasons. Now, the liberals (who are only for free speech if it's THEM speaking and they otherwise call their oponents idiots) ARE pushing a mindless mentality on the rest of us. BTW, you are most certainly not in the "middle". You're on the left. It is patently impossible for an unbiased individual to actually look at the numbers, the bill, and the history for example in Mass and then support this fiasco. Facts don't lie, and this legislation does not a darned thing to improve care - but it DOES promise to reduce care for millions. All while transferring money. Power. That's what this is all about.

Patty, if you truly ARE an RN working "32 years for Medicaid" then you are part of the problem. "Administrators" "work for Medicaid". Health care providers may PARTICIPATE in medicaid by accepting Medicaid reimbursements. If you "work for Medicaid" you're not providing medical care.

But beyond that, I challenge you to show me how this legislation improves health care in this country? With facts - not liberal pseudo-babble talking points. I mean with cold, hard facts.

When you do that please be sure to cover how removing $500B from Medicare while at the same time adding millions of patients - all while not addressing the disparity where Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements don't cover the actual cost of care will RETAIN (much less help) patients.

When you do that please address the Mass system that was projected to deliver millions in savings as a result of reducing overall health spending - but instead resulted in an instant 50% increase (and growing) on health care spending.

When you do that please address the six (6) community hospitals in Mass that are suing the state because they can't continue operations as a result of being forced to accept insufficient reimbursement to cover their costs.

When you do that please be sure to discuss the fact that profits from Insurance companies as compared to health care spending overall was a whopping FOUR TENTHS OF ONE PERCENT. So, where's the beef, there lady?

I would also encourage you to explain how this will lower costs as the facts are that currently fully 83% of all ER visits are by patients that DO have medical insurance. And that of the remaining 17%, the majority fall into the 21-35 yr old age group - which is the lowest cost group per capita due to better general health.

You see, what you've done here has not solved anything. It has not fixed anything. This is not about improving health care. This was about a run amock liberal administration and a criminal congress with no regard for their constituency creating more entitlements via wealth transfer in hopes of increasing their voting pool. Because many Americans (like you) are simply selfish - and when given something (which implies that something was forcibly TAKEN from somebody else) they will do whatever they have to in order to keep it.

You claim Republicans don't care and that they are selfish. However, the biggest hypocrits and the most selfish people I've seen in recent years can be found in the supporters of this legislation.

KayCee-

I am VERY sorry for your hardships and truly hope the reform will make a difference for you! It truly does infuriate when you you have to scroll (and scroll and scroll) and read such FEAR and IGNORANCE. It's amazing how much rhetoric, name calling, and just pure hate spews from the opposition. They were notorious for such tactics during the election, and I guess old habits die hard for them. They will NEVER admit that they have been just waiting for this moment to slam President Obama. It gives them a "reason" to point a finger, but their ignorance denies the fact of 3 other fingers pointing back at them, because heaven forbid a Democratic President who is "unlike" any president we have ever known, actually accomplishes such a LONG needed change for Americans.

We are thrilled to see this overhaul! We are one family of thousands who have faced (first hand) the affect of unexpected health issues and exorbitant health costs. Let me explain to EVERYONE on here . . . a bankruptcy and foreclosure is something I hope you will never have to experience!!! As if the health issues aren't enough, then your credit is ruined and you lose your home?!!

So, when you PEOPLE want to whine and complain and "say" it won't work, get a grip. Is this what you tell your children, don't take on a challenge because you won't change anything, it's just easier to be a sheep and go with the flow. Might I suggest you take a deep breathe, seriously consider WHO the source of your information has been, turn the channel and pour out your pitcher of kool-aid!!! Where were your complaints in the past 8 years with a President who blatantly lied about WMD and lifted all regulation, and allowed his government buddies to rob us blind?

And for MIKEA 2.11 - what a malicious human being you are and same goes for 6 individuals who voted for your pathetic comment.

Jack313,

What's getting old is the same old liberal accusations with zero facts to support them. I personally challenge you - that's YOU Jack - to discuss the issues with facts and data. You call the arguments "old". Well, here's your opportunity, pal.

Let's discuss a few things. With actual facts. No generalized comments. Real data. Can you handle it, Jack? Can you step up and defend your statements with actual logic and real information? I don't think so, Jack.

I'd like to discuss with you exactly how the national system being put in place will significantly differ from what happened in Mass from both a budgetary and a medical resource perspective. Please be prepared to discuss insurance premium increases, overall health care spending increases, the pending law suits against the commonwealth of Mass, the closure of community hospitals.

I'd like to discuss with you exactlyl how the removal of $500B from Medicare while adding patients and moving some of those patients to Medicaid - all while reimbursement levels are insufficient to cover actual costs will result in reduced spending.

I'd like to discuss with you how exactly this legislation will stop the ranks of physicians already deciding to not accept medicare - much less bringing back those that already have.

I'd like to discuss with you specifically how we are going to reduce private insurance premiums when factually profits from insurance carriers equal four tenths of one percent of health care spending.

Just a warning, Jack. I do mean really discuss facts. Dollars. Numbers of patients. CMS reimbursement policies. This can ONLY be a "liberal vs conservative" thing if you agree that this is nothing but a monetary transfer - a "redistribution of wealth" so to speak. So, let's see what you've got.

I will not get into the how much I really hate the house, senate or King of our country at this time!!!!! I want to simply state and point out to all working class AMERICAN's with CITIZENSHIPs. The votes on this page alone show that Government and politicians absolutly don't care about you!!!! This is directed directly at you. Are you going to continue to blog and call some poor uninspired, freeloader names and expect them to really understand what this bill just did to the constitution. Lets get real on real things; if we cant educate them into becoming responsible motivated people, let them be. Go after the suits who just showed you, YOU didn't matter.

The country is dividing fast now, soon states will be withdrawing from the NON-Union. It is time to become leaders and educators before our children are fighting on our own soil against themselves. Teach your families, children, freinds. Explian the tenth ammendment, show them what the constitution is and was intented to be. Remind them of why we left "Great Brittian".

Yesterday was an attrosity no doubt!!! If we dont do something about it now to better our country and our childrens future, then shame on us. Crying and Yelling wont get us anywhere. We need a resolute formation and coming together to be clear and loud that we will not tollerate this communistic take-over.

AMERICAN CITIZENS TAKE A STAND, REUNITE, Embrace the reason America WAS great and can be again. Tell the GOVERNMENT simply; America's citizens will be heard, Barrack and his czars wont tread on us!!!!!!!!

Wow. All the Obama bashing, what a shock! (sarcasm) Typical "me first" attitude of the frightened masses that will make this country a second rate power in the next 20 years if it isn't already. Where was all the screaming when Bush decided to start 2 wars that cost the American people 10 billion a month?

Oh that's right he didn't raise taxes, he just created more and more debt, expanded government to start "Homeland Security" and instituted the Patriot Act which is completely against the 4th Amendment of the Constitution. And because it didn't touch your pocketbook most of you just sat there and let it happen. Shame on you.

We have a President who was left the biggest financial & political mess any president has ever seen. The man is trying to solve serious problems while fighting off an entire political party that is only interested in regaining power and not solving problems.

Shut up and get out of the way Republicans you had your chance for way too long. It's time for serious people with serious ideas to have a shot. You were willing to give one of the dumbest people ever to hold the office of president 2 terms to screw us over. How about you let one of the most intelligent fix this mess up?

One last thing. Health Care has been a problem for so long in this country and the Republicans last night cried that the Democrats wouldn't submit a bipartisan bill which again is a lie.

Where were these "great" ideas from the Republicans when any Republican has held the office of president or they have held the majority in Congress?

Never heard a peep from them, ever! They really don't care about you, unless you are holding a checkbook.

Remember, Democrats did this!

Remember in November! Captain Marvelous

I will remember, because that's who I'm going to vote for, now. Where the heck did you people come from? I always thought we as Americans cared about our fellow man/women/child, but I have been learning from the crowds that you really don't care that many are without healthcare, as long as you were taken care of. You don't really care about the cost of this program, because if you cared about how government spent money you would have been up in arms when the Republican were in power. When we couldn't pay for a war. Get off your high horse and check out the type of insurance that is offered out there, costs. I have asthma and when I checked out insurance plans because my Cobra was ending, the cost was 748 a month for both of us with no RX plan, just because I take an inhaler that has kept me from having an attack for 18 years. Otherwise our insurance would be $417 a month. $417 paid for no RX plan, $5000 deductible, $10500 out of pocket & 30/70 plan - obviously that doesn't bother you, hmm it does me. Oh that's right I care about my fellow Americans and you all don't. Republicans & Tea Party - the New Me Generation!

John - VERY WELL SAID!

We have a President who was left the biggest financial & political mess any president has ever seen. The man is trying to solve serious problems while fighting off an entire political party that is only interested in regaining power and not solving problems.

Unfortunately, this is the reality that the republicans refuse to remove their blinders and ADMIT!!! It is much easier to turn on their FOX, BECK, RUSH, etc., live in and believe their "fear", drink their "OH YEAH" drink and deny, deny, deny.

The unanimous Republican vote speakes VOLUMNS to me, and that is . . . it's ALL about the PARTY and NOT about the AMERICAN PEOPLE!!

I have found one good thing about this bill. It has exposed just how corrupt Washington has become, with the back room deals, bribery, liars, arm twisting and just out and out blackmail. Amazing how the Constitution is being thrown out. Time to clean out Washington or better yet move it to a condo in Kansas, remove all lobbyists and the only perk the politicians get is a travel expense of $1.25 a mile for 2 times a month from home to the condo in Kansas, no side trips of any kind. They can use that $1.25 towards driving, flying, bus or hitch hiking. If they travel more than 2 times a month it is on their dime. Driving through Kansas will give them lots of time to think over any bill they have to sign. which from now on they will have to personally read before they can vote on it (questions will be asked

That's one small step for congress and one giant leap toward Communism.

How can people who favor this bill say that this is not big government??? They can tell you how to live because your health is required by the government. It is on their tab. I can't believe people have total disregard for the financial security of the US. You realize Rome fell due to financial collapse? I'm glad you may think it's a scare tactic, but it's history. Some people learn from the trials and tribulations of history!! As well as examples of the quality of health care around the world for countries that have Universal Health Care. I am shocked at the way some people think. You must have come from a family with broken values. Cheats, liars, thieves. People who feel entitled and don't know how to live an honest life. It sounds good and their are sob stories going around about how great this bill will be for the American people. My thought is that this isn't the America that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson wanted. They wanted government intervention to be little to none. The new founders of this socialist country will be Grover Cleveland, FDR, JFK, LBJ, Carter, and BHO. The progressives that ruined the democracy and Constitution. Manipulation of the Constitution through a loophole. The interstate commerce act! What an interesting piece of work!

What was said:

President Obama, Face the Nation, September 20, 2009

Obama: No, the difference is that they're making huge profits on it, Bob. I mean, let's take the Medicare HMO programs that are being run by insurance companies. It's estimated by everybody that they're overcharging by about 14 percent. This amounts to about $177 billion over 10 years. About $17 billion a year, $18 billion a year. That's just going to pad their profits, hasn't been shown to make Medicare recipients any healthier. And in fact because those huge subsidies are going to insurance companies, Medicare recipients are not getting a good deal. Now if we are enforcing what should be the rules around Medicare and making sure the people are getting a bang for the buck, it's not going to be possible for insurance companies to simply pass on those costs to Medicare recipients because ultimately it's Uncle Sam that's paying for those services anyway.

(guess who Uncle Sam is, duh, yeah thats right all US Taxpayers).

So the President knows about the big bad Insurance Corporations.

_________________________________________________________

What is done:

Rewards the Insurance Corporations, Medical Device Industry, and Pharmaceutical Industry for Campaign Contributions (for November 2010 Elections).

THE PRESIDENT'S PROPOSAL February 22, 2010

Page 10. Manditory Insurance, fined or jail (more suckers for the Insurance Corporations to deny claims): "Like the drug industry, the health insurance industry stands to gain as more Americans get coverage."

Page 10. "The medical device industry also stands to gain from expanding health insurance coverage."

Page 9. "Both policies will result in new revenue for the pharmaceutical industry."

BY GETTING THE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS OUT OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION

What Congress Gets:

"We're able to access that health care 24 hours a day when we're in Washington," Graham said, leading us to the Attending Physician's Office, a clinic inside the U.S. Capitol. They don't even have to leave the office.

About half of the members of Congress, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, use the Attending Physician benefit. For $42 a month, they can get all the primary care they need - physical therapy, X-rays, minor surgery, specialists and a pharmacy for emergencies - no appointment needed.

They also get VIP hospital treatment from the best doctors at Bethesda Naval Hospital. And they have a reserved spot at the elite Ward 72 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where the late Sen. Strom Thurmond spent a lot of time.

Outpatient care is free. Well, free for them. Your tax dollars pick up the cost.

The Hypocrisy is that the late Senator Kennedy of whom the Democratic Party refer to as the champion of this so called Health Care Reform used the Medical Services listed above for $42 per month. As well as Bethesda Naval Hospital (reference New Media footage of his departure after treatment at Bethesda).

BY GETTING THE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS OUT OF THE MEDICAL PROFESSION:

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video, 1:40) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

THIS CRAP IS ALL ABOUT THE PAYBACK TO THE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS FOR CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS!!!!!!!!! AND NOT REAL HEALTH CARE REFORM (MEDICAL PROFESSION).

House speaker will keep money from 'villains', Pelosi called insurers 'immoral,' despite receiving funds from industry.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32237227/ns/politics-cq_politics

We want what they have for $42 per month. Not this Insurance Scam (manditory purchase of Insurance, more suckers for denial of claims).

"We're able to access that health care 24 hours a day when we're in Washington," Graham said, leading us to the Attending Physician's Office, a clinic inside the U.S. Capitol. They don?t even have to leave the office.

About half of the members of Congress, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, use the Attending Physician benefit. For $42 a month, they can get all the primary care they need - physical therapy, X-rays, minor surgery, specialists and a pharmacy for emergencies - no appointment needed.

They also get VIP hospital treatment from the best doctors at Bethesda Naval Hospital. And they have a reserved spot at the elite Ward 72 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where the late Sen. Strom Thurmond spent a lot of time.

Outpatient care is free. Well, free for them. Your tax dollars pick up the cost."

If it is good enough for the President, Vice President, Speaker of the House, Senator Max Baucas, Congress, and all those trying ram something up our arses that they will never use (be screwed over by).

We want what they have for $42 per month.

NO ANAL RAPE.

Contact President:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

Contact Congress:

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/

Keep emailing them until they respond.

Just so you know, for those of you that may be getting health insurance out of this... their motive is not to get you insured, it is to get more control of your life! Insuring the uninsured sounds great, but there is MUCH more to it than that. There are MANY strings attached! I think something should be done about the current condition, but not this way. Providing health insurance to the uninsured is just the bait attached to the hook! Once that hook is set, you are under their control. Not to mention what it will do to the already crippled economy! I thought the focus right now was to create more jobs? This will put more taxes on "rich" employers who are the ones that create the jobs... so I'm confused... how will they afford to hire new employees when their financial situation is getting worse???

"Remember, Democrats did this! Remember in November!" Captain Marvelous

Remember that Republicans opposed it with lies and fearmongering and attempts at mob rule, not logical reasoned arguments.

There will be 7 months before the election, that should be enough time for many to realize just how much they were lied to, that this proposal really will improve health care financing, that there will be many more receiving needed health care, that affordable prenatal and obstetric care will reduce the number of abortions.

A lie may travel around the world before Truth gets it shoes on, but Truth has much more endurance, and will win in the end.

Here's what I know:

• The cost of living has gone up and has nothing to do with health care
• Health Care has gone up which has everything to do with union salaries, law suits, hospital and patient supplies. administrative cost, payroll, etc., etc.
• When union people go on strike they want more money, so something has to go up to cover these new salaries nothing can remain the same and still run a business and provide SERVICE.
• Health Care Service Providers provide a SERVICE.
• Child care providers provide a SERVICE
• Utility companies provide a SERVICE.
• Credit Card companies provide a SERVICE
• Resturants provide a SERVICE.
• Drug Stores provide a SERVICE.
• The local grocery market provides a SERVICE.
• Pet stores provide a service
• Vetinary clinics provide a SERVICE.
• Department and discount stores provide a SERVICE .
• Entertainment facilities provide a SERVICE.
• Financial instutitions provide a SERVICE
• Gas stations provide a SERVICE
• Pet Store provide a SERVICE
• Real Estate companies provide a SERVICE
• Airlines companies provide a SERVICE
• Hotel establishments provide a SERVICE
• Buses, cabs, car rental agencies provide a SERVICE
• All Insurance companies provide a type of SERVICE
• Automobile makers and mechanics provide a SERVICE
• And so on and so on and so on.

Does anyone have a right to these above mention services for free because they can't afford to pay the cost to participate in using any of these SERVICES?Or should the government subsidize all of them for us so that we don't have to pay as much or nothing at all? Or should the government mandate that we use these SERVICES or be PENALIZED and regulate how much these service providers can charge us to use their services because the government deemes that all these services are a RIGHT and everyone should have access to them?

A lot of us are angry for this travesty and the rest of you will join us when you are faced with the reality of what it means to have government use this as a doorway to further intrude into your lives.

Jack313:

And I'd start with you! That is if you have a job. Or are you just another useless on the dole? And bull-1697515 is right - its not discrimination, its making the losers that want this socialism accountable for it. You want this crap - YOU PAY FOR IT! Hell, our Marxist President just discriminated against 85% of the population. 85% are going to pay for 15% - a lot of them just being garden variety losers!

And don't think it is not going to happen. It is very easy to lay people off, and I'm sure business owners, who already are generally more conservative and more likely to be Republican, will be following along.

The way you combat tyranny is with anarchy!! This government just went against the vast majority of the people - this is tyranny and it is time for the people to rise up against this!

A government cannot give to any citizen that which it has not taken from someone else!!

Jack313:

And what is brutal, is hard-working AMERICANS having to take care of people like you! What is brutal is constantly punishing the people that actually contribute to society, unlike those sucking off the government t*t!

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."

Thomas Jefferson

A Government cannot Give to any citizen , that which has not been taken from Someone else!!

Besides, you guys were mostly wrong in the past, so I don't really trust your instincts.

lib50, I probably agreed with you for eight years when it came to the Bush administration. But, I'm disagreeing with you now.

Joyce from WASH:

Remember, Democrats did this!

Remember in November! Captain Marvelous

I will remember, because that's who I'm going to vote for, now. Where the heck did you people come from?

Washington state.

I always thought we as Americans cared about our fellow man/women/child, but I have been learning from the crowds that you really don't care that many are without healthcare, as long as you were taken care of.

I don't have health care. I happen to care that I don't have health care. I'm not going to rob my neighbor to get health care, because I also care about my neighbor.

You don't really care about the cost of this program, because if you cared about how government spent money you would have been up in arms when the Republican were in power. When we couldn't pay for a war.

I was. I still am. How about you? Or does that change for you depending on who's in office?

Get off your high horse and check out the type of insurance that is offered out there, costs. I have asthma and when I checked out insurance plans because my Cobra was ending, the cost was 748 a month for both of us with no RX plan, just because I take an inhaler that has kept me from having an attack for 18 years. Otherwise our insurance would be $417 a month. $417 paid for no RX plan, $5000 deductible, $10500 out of pocket & 30/70 plan -

You have money to pay for health insurance?! What in the heck are you whining about!? I make less than $15,000 a year, so don't look to me for money. In fact, sounds like you have more money than me. Sounds like you need to be taxed! I NEED some of YOUR money. Give it to me in the name of compassion!

obviously that doesn't bother you, hmm it does me. Oh that's right I care about my fellow Americans and you all don't. Republicans & Tea Party - the New Me Generation!

I spy the Me Generation in your post--->you.

Kaycee

When you were laid off and lost your insurance you could have excercised your COBRA option and kept in force. But you took a look at the premium and decided you couldn't afford it right? It should have made you realize just how big a benefit health insurance is. It should also have been much cheaper than forgoing the chemo or trying to pay for t yourself. But then again whats the government forbut handing out other peoples money.

John-1547041:

For just how long do you make excuses for a Marxist? Stop crying and whining about how tough things were when Odumbo came into office. Hell, if you can't handle the heat on day one, you shouldn't be in the office!

Being President does not include a training period. I know Odumbo thinks some things are above his pay-grade, but listen pal, we don't need an inexperienced, Chicago community organizer thug as President - and it's showing. And as President, nothing is above your pay-grade - unless you are still of the affirmative action mentality. Have you not taken a gander at his polls? He's losing even his one-time blinded by the tingle up their legs supporters. I know that idiots voted for him thinking that they were going to get Odumbo dollars, but even they are starting to realize that the payback is just was too much!

Newsvine is not a scientifically conducted poll. The latest scientifically conducted polls indicate the American people are almost evenly divided over health care reform.

The ONLY accomplishment of the last administration was turning a surplus into a HUGE deficit. What an accomplishment! Anyone care to post ONE positive thing that the last administration managed to accomplish? Please, just ONE... anyone???

Let’s go over the events of the 8 long years served:

Iraq war: trillions and counting, not to mention so many lives lost and families devastated. Did I mention the American people did not have a say in the decision, and that no viable motive was established?

Multiple tax breaks for big corporations and the wealthy: forcing small businesses and the middle class to pick up the slack (increase taxes), thus leaving no disposable income to drive the economy. Did I mention that disposable income is the biggest most important cog in driving the economy?

Wait wait... 'No child left behind': how ironic. Wonder how much did that cost?

How about our favorite... The 'Patriot Act': total violation of privacy and the biggest threat to our domestic freedom. Btw, does anyone know what's contained therein, and did anyone get to vote on it... anyone?

Go ahead... name ONE positive thing accomplished by the last administration throughout their 8 years in office, please enlighten me...

Bonus: Then we can discuss Healthcare Reform

Thanks in advance