FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO THINK THE GOP HAVE ANY INTEGRITY AT ALL.

The lawsuit by McCollum, a candidate for governor, and 12 other attorneys general, focuses on the provision that virtually all Americans will need to have health insurance by 2014 or face penalties.

The lawsuit calls this an "unprecedented encroachment on the liberty of individuals." It states the Constitution doesn't authorize such a mandate, the proposed tax penalty is unlawful and is an "unprecedented encroachment on the sovereignty of the states."

"The truth is this is a Republican idea," said Linda Quick, president of the South Florida Hospital and Healthcare Association. She said she first heard the concept of the "individual mandate" in a Miami speech in the early 1990s by Sen. John McCain, a conservative Republican from Arizona, to counter the "Hillarycare" the Clintons were proposing.

McCain did not embrace the concept during his 2008 election campaign, but other leading Republicans did, including Tommy Thompson, secretary of Health and Human Services under President George W. Bush.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/24/1544396/that-health-mandate-gop-is-suing.html#ixzz0j4HF4isF

Article - ..."But Republicans vowed to take full advantage of their right to offer unlimited amendments, intending to sabotage the package and create turmoil among Democrats who are counting on its passage.".... At this rate, I truly may never, ever, return to Republican party, tho' I was a member for over 30 years.

LU, nothing the republicans say can be counted on. Everything is politically expedient. There's one thing they care about and that's control. They want to control this country, and God knows what after that. That's why the refuse to recognize Obama's presidency. They just don't like American democracy. The next step for them toward grabbing control is to destroy the Obama presidency. Through Obama's entire presidency the Republicans will never participate in helping with any serious legislation that is proposed by Obama or the Democrats. It doesn't matter what the legislation might be. And it's all because they want him to fail so that a Democratic president looks bad and Americans will put the republicans back in power. They are seriously doing this country harm and I'm sick and tired of it.

For the past several weeks, with this book remaining basically intact, Owebama the Benevolant has been saying that he doesn't care what it takes, what is changed.... just pass the darned thing.

Although not all is new; Fannie, Freddie, GM, AIG....the GM plant that is going up in INDIA to the tune of BILLIONS OF DOLLARS,.... now close to THREE THOUSAND PAGES of supposed legislation of health care is to be passed WITHOUT the back door entrance to corporate government takeover of such over the next ? years?

It amazes me. As in my preceding posts, this is not only completely backwards thinking and logicistics, but is the perpetuation of an ever expanding, ever self serving, ever removed from the PEOPLE corpor government.

I also believe there are doctors from all over the world that come TO America to become doctors here; patients from all over the world come to the Cleveland Clinic and other American hospitals to be cared for, especially in the most dire of circumstances.

They don't travel to the U.K., Canada, or anywhere else for superior care... only for cheaper plastic surgeries.

For those that oppose the profiteering practices of big pharma and insurance companies, if this passes, it will be ten fold.

This abomination does NOTHING to control them, costs, torts, or anything else; IN FACT, the headliners say it all......'SOCIALIZED MEDICAL COVERAGE'. That's IT.

This has to be done by hook or by crook because NOTHING is being done about jobs or our American economy, nothing being done for a pro-American economy, and this 'socializing' says it all.

"Get used to it; you're all going to need it".

Note the 'you'; Congress or any other government employee will NOT BE HELD to the same lower quality of care that we will be mandated to recieve.

Private insurance will become less and less available as they will be unable to compete; who COULD? The government's an ENDLESS MONEY PIT. They will continue to run debt into debt, expanding and growing like a cancer. Tax money is an endless supply for them, and they have become what our Founding Fathers had warned us against. Corporate Government.

This isn't about what's good for America, Americans, or the Principles that America was founded and based upon.

This is about Government BECOMING corporate; the largest, most expansive, most ruthless and above all laws corporation that ever was.

THEY want to become capitalism. THEY want to become America's business. THEY know what's best for us; not American citizens TELLING government what WE THE PEOPLE want.

THEY will lobby, bribe, sell, prostitute, lie, break laws, and GIVE AWAY AS MUCH OF OUR MONEY as necessary to become THE corporation while CONDEMNING THE VERY SAME in the VERY SAME BREATH.

Instead of tort reforms (saving in costs of liabilities, bogus payouts, raised rates and unnecessary procedures), mandating competition across state lines to lower rates, charging those that DON'T take care of themselves more yet not denying coverage, PRIORITIZING JOBS COMING HOME and PRIORITIZING the economy, this is what Father Government deems best.....

SOCIALIZING medicine. Give to all. Costs be damned, ability to pay for it be damned, ACCOUNTABILITY AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY be damned.

Cut doctors pay; kill their incentives. Add MORE BEUAROCRACY to an ALREADY inefficient beuarocracy. Add MORE nannying; continue the sell-out of OUR jobs, OUR economy, punish THOSE THAT WORK and get ready to further punish any REMAINING American businesses with Cap and Trade.

Tout American capitalism as being evil and corrupt, American business as being evil and corrupt, PROMOTE SOCIALIZATION WHILE BECOMING THE LARGEST, MOST EXPANSIVE, AND TOTALITARIAN CORPORATION simultaneously.

Don't legislate BUT TAKE OVER.

Trample American beliefs, American values, use those that do for themselves to SUPPORT those that don't and won't.

Even if 'passed', this rubbish won't survive; it's the very THOUGHT that this is being proposed in America, at this time, with no concern for the REAL problems and American needs.....

that's what sickens me.

Don't bring up facts.....They'll call you names but never respond with actual facts to rebut in return.

This artlcle misses the real story. The Republicans may bring forward as many road blocks to a bad bill as there were back room deals by the Democrats. The real story is that the next "stand" is the voting booth in November.

There are good compoinents in thsi bill. However, there are many sections that will be embarrasing to all Democratic House member at election time. This next elections will be fun to watch. Obama, in his desire to pass a big package in his name, brought a very ugly product to life.

Per a Newsweek article just a few days back, ... "Conservatives have been hinting at a campaign to repeal the newly passed bill for weeks. But actually having to run one is their worst nightmare. They never wanted to get to this point. They know that repealing the legislation will be far more difficult than passing it was, and by now, Americans fully realize how arduous the journey to last night was. At this point, repeal is fantasy.

For starters, Republicans simply don’t have the numbers in either chamber. It’s doubtful that even Democrats who voted with them last night, would support a repeal of their president’s signature achievement. Pelosi may have allowed a few members in difficult districts to sit this one out, but she certainly wouldn’t allow them to actively undermine her. Moreover, Republicans are far short of the requisite 60 votes in the Senate."....

They may try to really hammer the bill, hope all holds together. - This year: Tax credits to small businesses to help with employee health care (not all qualify, but it's a start), pre-existing condition patients (like a sick child) can now purchase insurance, Insurers cannot drop the sick, no limits on life care, young adults can stay on parents' policy until age 26, working to close seniors' "donut hole" - plus free preventative care with no co-pay/deductible... even with the final phase not kicking in until 2014, this will benefit many.

As if you could sabatoge a disaster.

If "sabotage" is not doing what the Dems want, then what did the Dems do to America by not doing what the people wanted?

More whining by self-absorbed idiots who don't know how to accept having to play by the rules. "They're standing up to us??? well, um, um they're obstructionist and...and this is...this is um sabotage. yea that's it."

Brilliantly flawed logic there.

Only in math does multiplying two negatives together make a positive, or is this more in line of a 'tit for tat' philosophy, perhaps 'quid pro quo' tossed in?

Comparing doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons by one end of the Donkephant now justifies doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons by the other?

These arguements are lame; they're akin to me HATING my neighbor that has Dalmations, a Toyota, takes particular care of his lawn, and plays hip-hop music.

Since I hate him and can't stand the person he is, I will now NEVER indulge in or own any of the above; HE had/has them.

What, with enough anger I can now justify being against ANYTHING he does or has, right or wrong, connected or not, and become MORE AND MORE like him by doing so? Should I become SO consumed by my dislike of him that I will work to find wrongs in anything and everything he does, and about him?

Over time, perhaps I can learn to support things I DON'T even believe in or believe are right; the important thing will be.... I PERCIEVE them as being Anti-Him (percieve CERTAINLY being the operative word).

Certainly this is more of a moot point in some ways; the way things have been ALLOWED to become, what WE have allowed our nation and economy to become.... there's little chance of ever turning back.

For the sake of arguement, it's repeatedly brought up how people and Congress fought extensively about the additions of Social Security and Medicare. This is brought up because it's frequently compared to what's happening now. The same arguements can be made then as now (again, theoritcally, as turning back seems a distant memory).

Most often, people worked for a company. They worked with them for their entire working career; age X to the approx. age of 65. They recieved benefits, wages, and were able to raise families, buy homes, pay them off, and amass some degree of savings. Once retired, many recieved pensions (not only from unions, but 'union' wasn't a deragotory term then; they weren't abusive and power controlled, but separate topic...). They also recieved extended medical coverage since they PAID INTO IT their entire working career, used it ONLY when necessary, were more RESPONSIBLE for their weight, their health, etc... and lo and behold................... it DID balance out.

For those that use the SS and Medicare arguement, think of the changing times when it was passed. Corporatism was beginning to replace American Capitalism as the Illegal Federal Reserve was gaining footing. This New Government Corporatism KNEW it would be necessary to have SS and Medicare, because the sell-out of Our economy, the above example of employment were to become obsolete. It had NOTHING to do with technological advancements, a bastardized beginning of a 'new' open and free market, and EVERYTHING to do with Americans and American Businesses thriving..... but not the big money elitists and not the government wanting to become corporate.

The government didn't want to remain small and public servants, nor did the big money (international and mostly domestic) want to remain stagnated; good enough wasn't good enough.

Now, instead of public servants more or less DONATING time away from REAL careers, we have career welfare recipients, most to the tune of $200K with Porsche health care plans invested in big pharma, oil, health insurance companies, and all else; GLB allowed mega corps. to blossom, TBTF, and look it up..... BOTH Donkephants are heavily invested in all the above and more.

Without going on and on about that (those that care to know get the point); this IS the reason people were against SS and Medicare. IT DID NOT fix the problems that were starting, it didn't address the ROOT of any of what was changing; it only said, in so many words, "this is the change that's coming - you (American citizens) have no say in that; we're starting to take over business and the economy. So, it's this, or do without, because we have NO intentions of changing the course of what WE will have (again, referencing the above entities)".

Besides many, many other reasons, this is the MAIN reason so many are completely against this worthless bill. It's not only politics at their worst, not only bribery, prostitution, and done IN THE EXACT SAME fashion as so many claim to HATE about the Red team (parts likely illegally done) but it's also NOT ADDRESSING the real issues, the REASONS so many are without health care, the REASONS it's so costly.

In this way, it's very similar to the passage of SS and Medicare.

If any REALLY think that going back that far, all the 535 and Prez's that have come and gone, Blue and Red, all abominations of Donkephants, and still claim or purvey loyality to Blue or Red....... THAT is the real problem we as Americans face.

For me, this supercedes all else. Socialism and Government Corporatism vs. American Capitalism, health care rights vs. privileges, who should pay and who shouldn't and can it be forced; IMPORTANT considerations, don't misunderstand me and think I discount any of them.

However, the root cause, the REASON for this and other debates, even dating back to SS and Medicare.....are much, MUCH more important. They're the VERY reason that any of this has ever even needed to brought to light.

Sorry, the Dems control the Whitehouse and congress. They chair all the committees and set the agenda. One wonders if you don't like the congresssional process then why would you like how HCR got passed? OR maybe you just like those parts that suit your purpose? When asked about the money thrown around to get the votes, the reply was "Congress has been doing business like this for hundreds of years. This is how things get done". I'll go one step further. The filing of the suit by the state's AG is due process. They have a right to do it. Most folks feel the Supreme court will hear the case. They're just divided on how successful it will be.

moderationinallthings,

Great post. It makes me sick also.

Did Obama sign the executive order on abortion?

Demigods passed this bill. They did not care that the majority were not for the bill. Just like Teddie did all the time. When he was against you he would be a demigod. Every time I vote for a democrat. They think I am Barney Frank.

I also believe there are doctors from all over the world that come TO America to become doctors here; patients from all over the world come to the Cleveland Clinic and other American hospitals to be cared for, especially in the most dire of circumstances.

They don't travel to the U.K., Canada, or anywhere else for superior care... only for cheaper plastic surgeries.

For those that oppose the profiteering practices of big pharma and insurance companies, if this passes, it will be ten fold.

This abomination does NOTHING to control them, costs, torts, or anything else; IN FACT, the headliners say it all......'SOCIALIZED MEDICAL COVERAGE'. That's IT.

This has to be done by hook or by crook because NOTHING is being done about jobs or our American economy, nothing being done for a pro-American economy, and this 'socializing' says it all.

"Get used to it; you're all going to need it".

Note the 'you'; Congress or any other government employee will NOT BE HELD to the same lower quality of care that we will be mandated to recieve.

Private insurance will become less and less available as they will be unable to compete; who COULD? The government's an ENDLESS MONEY PIT. They will continue to run debt into debt, expanding and growing like a cancer. Tax money is an endless supply for them, and they have become what our Founding Fathers had warned us against. Corporate Government.

This isn't about what's good for America, Americans, or the Principles that America was founded and based upon.

This is about Government BECOMING corporate; the largest, most expansive, most ruthless and above all laws corporation that ever was.

THEY want to become capitalism. THEY want to become America's business. THEY know what's best for us; not American citizens TELLING government what WE THE PEOPLE want.

THEY will lobby, bribe, sell, prostitute, lie, break laws, and GIVE AWAY AS MUCH OF OUR MONEY as necessary to become THE corporation while CONDEMNING THE VERY SAME in the VERY SAME BREATH.

Instead of tort reforms (saving in costs of liabilities, bogus payouts, raised rates and unnecessary procedures), mandating competition across state lines to lower rates, charging those that DON'T take care of themselves more yet not denying coverage, PRIORITIZING JOBS COMING HOME and PRIORITIZING the economy, this is what Father Government deems best.....

SOCIALIZING medicine. Give to all. Costs be damned, ability to pay for it be damned, ACCOUNTABILITY AND PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY be damned.

Cut doctors pay; kill their incentives. Add MORE BEUAROCRACY to an ALREADY inefficient beuarocracy. Add MORE nannying; continue the sell-out of OUR jobs, OUR economy, punish THOSE THAT WORK and get ready to further punish any REMAINING American businesses with Cap and Trade.

Tout American capitalism as being evil and corrupt, American business as being evil and corrupt, PROMOTE SOCIALIZATION WHILE BECOMING THE LARGEST, MOST EXPANSIVE, AND TOTALITARIAN CORPORATION simultaneously.

Don't legislate BUT TAKE OVER.

Trample American beliefs, American values, use those that do for themselves to SUPPORT those that don't and won't.

Even if 'passed', this rubbish won't survive; it's the very THOUGHT that this is being proposed in America, at this time, with no concern for the REAL problems and American needs.....

that's what sickens me.

bibol, the majority of people elected Obama to office, in part, because he promised to reform healthcare. The people knew this was coming when they elected him, because they want it. Of course, Obama figured at least some republicans would want to work on the legislation with him and the Dems. I'm afraid our President over-estimated the republicans. But the bill was passed anyway, through means that the republicans themselves used many times over. But perhaps the important point now is that the majority of American do want this law, now that the truth has been able to pierce the wall of distortion erected by the republicans. It was the same sort of leading-by-misinformation they they used to cajole us into invading Iraq. Anyway, it's law now and the people now want it. Case closed.

In the beginning, no one was going to beat Hillary Clinton. Who knew John McCain would be the Republican candidate? 53% of the popular vote is not a mandate of anytype for anything. No, it's far from over and the vast majority of Americans STILL don't want it.

How and why do Republicans think they speak for "the vast majority of Americans". They don't. They are loud and arrogant but still a minority. The country is changing. It is more diverse and made up of people of color and whites, who believe in the future of our country, who still believe in our President. They don't scream and holler about it and make dire predictions about it. They are the working and middle classes and believers in rule by majority of the people. Not corporations, or special interests, or wackos spouting platitudes...

LU:

Isn't it the responsibility of our President Obama, to be focusing on getting jobs for Americans?--He went into his Presidency to fix problems, like unemployment and declinning economy.

Apparently, his first 1 1/2 year strategy was to get Health Care Passed through. The Americans didn't know this. He trudged on and did it successfully, and Unconstitutionally. Breaking Laws..

Now it is time that he tackle a more important subject; how the unemployment got so bad and the economy, also under his thumb this past 18 months.

No, it's not the Republicans responsiblity, it is the Majority of Democratic Senators and the President. No Checks and Balances. The Republicans have no say in anything that is done in White House Politics.

You're wrong.

Please stop shifting the blame. Is it too threatening to all the Dems?

Blame comes easy, but solving it is the President's job.

The Democrats have had years to accomplish something. After all the other problems needing attention in our country, they have wasted more than a year on an agenda that does nothing but what they hope will boost Obomas declining ratings along with the dimwitted Democrat majority. They believe they have a victory; much like Japan declared a victory after Pearl Harbor.

Name Less: No, he did not sign the executive order on abortion. This just came out from CNN:

"CNN -- President Obama will sign an executive order Wednesday that ensures that existing limits on the federal funding of abortion remain in place under the new health care overhaul law.

Unlike the signing of the health care bill into law Tuesday, which was conducted under the glare of media cameras, the event Wednesday will be closed to the news media."

It doesn't mean anything anyway-he can recind the order at any time. Like as soon as Stupak and the other 12 anti-abortion Democrats leave the room.

The amusing thing about all this banter is some how the Democrats are ok with the backdoor deals passed in the current Senate bill that was signed into law.

Cornhusker

Nebaska

And all of you bitch that the GOP is doing nothing or offering nothing and then you have the stones to say that the GOP is for the insurance companies.

So answer this question?

Which party just gave those nasty insurance companies an increase of 32 million more insurance policies to collect on?

Current law (without this so called fix-it bill to cover the promises of getting the votes to pass this bill) states that Cornhusker and Nebraska and all other deals are law.

Amusing so if you never want to pay for a Medicaid or Medicare increase again move to Nebraska as they are more of a American citizen than the rest of the nation who will have to pay for the increases whihc is completely unconstitutional.

So now the fun begins with holding the fixes to take all that stuff out. Then November comes and the entire process of removing a US Congress with the lowest approval ratings in Amreican history begins.

Republicans can make themselves look good in the public eye. They need to embrace the FairTax. Push the agenda and educate the people, this will cripple the Dems. The income tax is illegal, unjust and the IRS are no better than gangsters. Your earnings are taxed and you are taxed as you use your earnings. Does this sound or feel like a free country? Common, Republicans get your act together and get back in the game. The rest of the country is thinking you bigots and backwards idiots!!!

I guess their true colors are shining through. They are taking the same approach that the Gov. of AK took during integration of schools. What are they going to do next. Ask the national guard to block the doctors and hospital doors so we can go in? Way to go guys.

Jim A, I 'm sorry, but you're wrong. Every election 30-40% of the electorate vote and they speak for the nation. Politicians claim that the polls mean nothing, but they continually look at the results to determine how they're doing. One guy claimed that the silent minority was the majority. Well, if you don't vote, you're going to go where we take you. The last that I looked the MSNBC post NCR signing 521,333 were displeased with the passage and 197,076 liked it . That's not close at all. You get 1 vote and that's it---no loaded questions---no logical placement of questions---just like an election.

Why not force Americans to have mandatory health insurance? Yet people wonder why the uninsured keep filling up the emergency rooms across the country with non-lifethreatening illnesses like colds, stomach aches, refill meds, etc. Of course, these people can't go to the doctor or clinic because they will demand some sort of payment upfront. No wonder the wait time is 12hrs+. Majority of the uninsured are not illegals. I bet alot of them hold jobs that pays minimum wages with little or no benefits. But yet those corporations continue to post huge profits so their CEO's can continue to make millions a year. Back when your grandpa was young, having healthcare covered by your job was the norm. What happened now?

The reason ER's are so busy is because people continue to use them for things a PCP can take care of. Don't you think the hospital wants paid also. Don't you think the ER doctor wants paid also. I worked at a state hospital for 6 1/2 years. If you owed them money, they would ask you for payment on terms. If you refused, they could and would garnish up to 1/3rd of your gross wages and you would not get a state tax refund until your bill was paid. Supposedly, if you did not have a green card, you did not recieve care? I doubt there's a hospital in this country will let someone die over that. I doubt there's a mother in labor they'd put in the street. Once that baby is born, he's an American citizen entitled to all we have.

Nothing but as long as the left is "in charge" there is nothing going to get done about that- even Obama has said his next priority is something other then jobs and the economy but you go on blaming the Republicans - with luck 2010 and 2012 will lead to more Independents getting elected

Stan W - online polls say nothing. They are not scientific, and only reflect how much stock the GOP places on them. Most of us who are sickened by the GOP don't bother with those polls right now. A waste of time.

You should try using more professional barometers.

The Republicans are just grasping at straws. Their political party is experiencing the death throws and the signaling of the end of the GOP. They, once again, shot themselves in the foot.

It would be much better if the Republicans rejoined the United States and become a helpful part of our future rather than a roadblock to any progress, economic stability, and a return to prosperity.

DeeToo, I look at all polls and I myself was called by Gallup----didn't answer the phone. I don't like loaded questions looking for specific answers and questions formulated to get the answer they're looking for. Did you ever notice that if you have a bad experience anywhere; somehow, you just never get the survey? They don't want you in the statistics. Did you ever take an online survey where they ask you 1 or 2 questions and say---Sorry, you don't qualify for this survey. JD Powers has to be the biggest joke running. All elections are straight Yea or nay. There's no little box that you can say if this and if that. Even if you liked HCR, the process pretty much upset a lot of folks. I place no stock in polls that allow you to vote as much as you like, but I do take stock in polls that ask you---like---don't like----or not sure, and you get only 1 vote.

len miles

The only people that are thrilled with this "@!$%# with the constitution bill" are the ignorant,dead weight loser liberals

I guess all of those unemployed workers don't want a chance of being covered. BTW the only way to get jobs flowing and people back to work, is to make the Corporation that got big tax breaks during the Bush years to start hiring people back again. That means with benefits and a decent wage to live. I know they will say their budget are tight, but they can still give out million dollar bounuses to the CEO's. Maybe it is socialist to tell a CEO to take a cut in his bonus so you can hire more people.

Maybe just maybe, if peolpe are not shelling out 10K or more to cover health insurance each year, they will have money to invest in America. That's not conservative or liberal, that's just common sense.

GOP is listening to the American people where these liberals are just pushing whatever they want through. We live in a democracy right? And why not? They should vote on point of orders when they think something is not right? Do we live in such a country that spending money we don't have is right? That just pushing our debt further and further into the hole is right? I budget my money and I buy things that I can afford. I don't rack up $10,000 in credit card debt and complain about the interest rates. You understand the interest rates when you get the card. If you don't or you don't have control, get rid of or don't get a credit card. Personal accountability people! Democrats were upset over the deficit Bush was responsible for. The deficit has exploded so much that in a YEAR, Obama had surpassed the costs of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And what is the "Sabotage" language? That's malicious. This isn't malicious. It isn't illegal. It isn't like the bribing and threatening of politicians that Obama did. Plus don't you know that there was about 34 democrats that voted no and more that would have if they weren't bribed or threatened?

The GOP is out for political gain, what they are doing to themselves is causing more and more loss of credability as a valid political party. They are gradually and consistently proving themselves to be fear mongers, anti-American, and against the Constitution - well, except for guns and they want plenty of them.

Just the kind of folks Americans give credability to? I think not. They might as well openly admit their alignment with the tea party hooligans.

The University of Ottawa has shown what they think of hate mongering hooligans. Add obstructionism to the American political process and you get a better view of what the GOP has become.

60% of Americans agree with them on health care????? Don't know where that number came from, but I think the reality is much different. I'd like to know how many Americans are against getting rid of the pre-existing conditions practice, getting rid of the practice of dropping insurance on people that have had expensive claims, letting their children be covered on their insurance longer, banning pre-existing clauses on children, getting rid of lifetime caps on claims, focusing on Medicare claims fraud, making nutrition information clearer on food products, requiring greater transparency of health insurance companies....... The list goes on.

Are 60% of Americans against these improvements in health care?? Are 60% of Americans impacted by fines for not having health insurance??? Of course not. That just fails the sniff test. It's the Republicans that are against it because someone is actually doing something to improve health care in this country and they don't want it to happen. Yep, the Republicans are fighting to prevent Americans from getting the benefits listed above.

Republicans - the anti-American party. The party that spits on Senators that don't agree with them but were elected to their offices, that call Senators @!$%#s, that call Senators faggots, that threaten to use their Browning guns if Scott Brown doesn't get the health care improvements killed. Yep, this is what the Republican party has become. Talk about Nazis, talk about Hitler........ Look who is actually demonstrating that behaviour in their political discourse.

Just because we have state of the art medical capabilities and the best doctors in the world does NOT mean we have the best healthcare benefits for our people. Those who are coming to America for their medical care are most likely paying cash. This argument is just plain stupid to me, nobody is stating that we do not have high tech equipment and well trained specialists! That has nothing to do with the state of our healthcare system or the financial assault of the insurance companies on the poor and sick.

I hope that somehow the entire thing gets trashed! For one, I like my health care JUST THE WAY IT IS; I'm paying for it, and it is not costing me as much as if when I get it with the new health bill in place in additional taxs. Two, I wouldn't trust Scum-Bama if he told me the sky was blue and today is Wed!!!!

THE GOV HAS NO BUSINESS IN BANKING, HEALTH CARE OR BEING IN MY POCKET!!

THe Bill is unconstitutional to the extent that it compels someone to purchase a product if they do not want to purchase it. Car insurance is required if you want to drive a car - you do not need to have it if you walk, ride a bike or take a cab.

Obama said he would sign an executive order prohibiting the use of federal funds for abortion - BUT now that the Bill is law he will get around to that executive order.

Obama said he would veto any Bill that was not budget nuetral - the Health Care Bill (using funny enron math) was $129 billion to the good. However, Obama's own adjustment to the Bill removed the $200 Billion reduction in Doctor payments so Obama knows in signing this Bill that he agreeing to a Bill that is $71 Billion worth of deficit increase. Thought he said he would never sign such a Bill.

The insurance is high because the costs of medical service are high - nothing in this Bill fixes that . In fact this Bill brings 30 million more customers to the big bad insurance companies. Hey maybe we could mandate that everyone buy a car.

Get ready for more taxes as the government will need it to fund all this. Can you say national sales tax?

America had an election, the people spoke. We elected our members of Congress. Congress passes bills, the President signs. Why is the GOP set against Democracy and want minority mob rule? This is very UNAmerican. If you don't like it vote differently next time. The party of NO thinks Rush and Beck will lead their mob to victory, I think not.

@ What we need are more lawyers...

How is the GOP anti-American since the founders designed this country to have a small central government with stronger state powers? All the democrats found was a loophole that stemmed back to Grover Cleveland's Interstate Commerce Act. If you ever read history or the Constitution you could find quotes from the founders about their thoughts on big government. You do understand that we have the freedom of speech right? You know that the freedom of religion was to keep the government from choosing or eliminating religion? The right to bear arms was to keep the government in check.

Well a poll by MSN users two days ago had 67% of the people mad about this bill, 6% mixed feelings about the bill and didn't like the government mandating that people have to buy healthcare, 25% For the bill, and 1% Other (+/- a few tenths of a percent). You know how many users this was that voted? Over 780,000 users. Most polls don't count that many people, they just extrapolate. RealClearPolitics is an average of most recognized polls out there. They have 50.4% Against this bill and 39.7% For the bill. Congressional approval is at its lowest I think ever (I could be wrong), 17.4% Approval and 77% Disapprove. Obama is at 47.5% Approval and 46.6% Disapproval. The President somehow hasn't received too much blame yet.

Do you really think I care what a Canadian college thinks? That is where Americans are misunderstood. We respect, but we don't do things with the approval of Europe or Canada. You know why? Because we know their history and we like ours better. We live by our beliefs and ideals and we don't shake. We stand up and we do what we believe is right. Some of us still fear God and some of us learn from history. You think it's fear tactics, but it is wisdom. Why? Because things like this happened in the past. Universal disasters with health care in other countries and other states. Sure you hear the SOB stories for why we need healthcare, but do you hear the SOB stories in countries that have universal healthcare?? We learned from the Soviets, From the Romans, and from other nations of the past that thought they could not fail that they can and why they did. The ordinary people don't know always know history. Many are watching reality tv or shopping for designer clothes or working to build up their material status. That's fine. This is America. Envy is considered a mortal sin. How many people envy the celebrity life and they do not worry about their own? Greed is too. The greed of entitlement and not working hard to get what you want is a sin. Believe in God or not, it is your choice and your Constitutional right, but every religion has principles to live by. Almost every culture has had some type of religion up until the modern age of arrogance. We don't live in a Eutopia and it never will happen. There is always work to be done and somebody has to do this work. Life isn't free we all do our part in a society to make it stronger and make it grow. Life isn't equal and it shouldn't be. The best should succeed and in America everyone is given the opportunity. Sports, business, sales, labor, etc. Something will always be there to knock you down, it's how you want to stand back up, is what kind of person you are. If you want the government to prop you back up because you lack the fortitude, so be it. I won't waver from my principles and I won't back down from the government. It is the government that is the employee of the people. Not the other way around. It is our responsibility and duty to fight the government. It is our duty to limit them, not to concede to them.

GOP senators hope to sabotage health bill

Why can't they name it something more like "GOP senators hope to rescue American taxpayers"? Guess that wouldn't be inflamatory enough...

@ GinChinChili .... 53% voted for Obama, 46% voted for McCain. It wasn't exactly a landslide, but you are right, the people knew what he wanted to do. People didn't realize how liberal he was and they didn't listen to his past. I mean he was associated with Bill Ayers and Rev Wright and all those people who decided not to pay their taxes. They tax, but they don't pay. They want this healthcare bill, but they don't want to have the same healthcare. If it's good for the American people, isn't it good for them to? Republicans added an admendment that has to be voted on to make that the governments healthplan. Maybe if they had it, then it would be a better system. I mean everyones argument against Bush was the deficit and his transparency. I seen the deficit explode under Obama and the transparency of the the bribes and threatening behind closed doors. I mean $787 billion stimulus. The biggest pork bill in history! The one that is gonna cost over $3 trillion when all is said and done. I don't even want to know how much this $940 billion healthcare bill is going to cost!

Joe, your novels are tiring. And I have to tell you, I don't even bother when someone thinks they need to post a book on newsvine. Also, deciding to read the constution last week when you heard the word unconstitutional from Glen Beck does not make you a constutional expert. As for the polls youare citing. I could give a rats arse about them. What you can't seem to get through your thick skull is, we had an election last November. The MAJORITY put this president and this congress in place. You don't like that. Tough. Suck it up and get over it. It is what it is and it will remain that way until we have another election. With all this constitution reading you say you have been doing it's surprising that you apparently didn't get the way our government works. May I suggest you read it again. Slowly this time, don't just skim it for the things you are trying to use as your justifications because Glen Beck told you.

The GOP may be the party of no, but the Democratic party is the party of woe.

The Government has been in the pockets of the people since day one.

What an intelligent comment. Did you need your mother have to proofread that and approve it. I have sucked it up, doesn't mean I'm going to roll over like a dog and let the government do what they want. Thanks I've probably seen about 10-12 airings of Glenn Beck since he went on air. He's an intelligent man. He does real journalism. He provides facts. I know you live in a world with unicorns and genies, but grow up would you. Just because someone finds out facts and truths, doesn't make him a bad guy. If he makes historical connections, does that bother you? I haven't heard anyone call him a liar. Must because he backs up his facts. I have read the Constitution, I have taken political science courses and literature courses at college. It fascinates me. Why don't you get an education and try to come up with a better argument.

Pound4abrown... i think it was actually day 2... day 1 they were drunk and looking to score.

To find the text of the bill (AKA the facts, not the "spin"), go here, and select the "Engrossed version"

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.4872:

It's all about raising mony for the political campaigns. Without an issue the campaign contributions would dry up. The republican party has always tried to pit one group against another all for the sake of raking in big money to insure their re-election. The republicans only represent special interest and their special interest is themselves. They are going to spend the next few months tearing down this country instead of doing positive things to improve the lives of all Americans. It's amazing how they were all in favor to spend a trillion dollars to improve the life of Iraq. and they have sour grapes about improving the lives of Americans..go figure...what else would you expect from them...

Screw you liberal socialist bastards! The un-constitutional Dem bastards are not about to get away with pullijng the crap they just did. It's going to be payday both politically and personally - one way or the other. Screw Obama, the socialist commie!

Anyone else notice that the claim that people are "satisfied with their insurance" is obviously bogus? Who the heck is satisfied with rising premiums, denial of coverage, and cancellation of coverage retroactively? Are we really happy that we give thousands of dollars a year to an insurance company only to have them cancel us when we get sick? The only people I have ever met who were happy were those on Medicare!

We've got to give these GOP crooks the boot. Dems aren't perfect, but the GOP has been a major embarrassment for this country for quite a while now. The last year has been a fiasco of rumor-mongering, fear spreading, misinformation filled soap operas. They don't represent "the American people", they represent themselves and that's it. This country will never move forward to a better tomorrow until we give the dying Republican party a burial, people stop paying attention to paranoid drama queens like Glenn Beck, Plain, and Limbaugh, and we start thinking for ourselves.

This bill certainly isn't perfect, thanks in great part to the GOP. However, it is a start, and that's a lot more than the Republicans wanted us Americans to have.

I HOPE the repubs get this "healthcare" bill trashed. NO MORE BIG GOVT. Where is all this $ coming from for this massive govt expansion??? Obama has fooled so many into thinking that govt (he) is the answer to everything, you really don't need to work, you will be taken care of. WAKE UP. NOTHING IS FREE.

Thanks to all of you! After to seeing the headlines that the GOP once more were "playing" obstructionist, I was truly disheartened. Seeing so many of you that feel the same as I do gives me hope.

I am so tired and discouraged that the Republicans truly are willing to destroy this country in order to try to regain control. What they fail to see is if they succeed in their destruction, there will be nothing left to control.

I will never vote for another Republican. I used to be an Independent, leaning left on social issues, right on fiscal. The Republicans are so far right that only the radicals can agree with them and their tactics. Thus, the Democrats have a new very loyal supporter. I can only hope that more people see the Republicans for what they truly are and dessert the party as well.

You have to pay the doctors something. You have to pay for this expensive equipment that hospitals need somehow. you need to pay the operational cost of the hospitals, the cost of the medicine, the cost of the research for new medicine, equipment, operations, etc etc. I'm actually not to upset about my health coverage. I pay about $148/month. I was paying last year before i switched it about $185/month. I pay $34/month in dental. I don't think denials and cancellations are right. That's the best part of this bill is they can't deny someone with preexisting conditions or they can't cancel someone for having a condition. I don't know what misinformation was given, but when you leave loopholes in a bill, they can be potentially bad. The republicans and conservatives were talking about these loopholes. It's not embarassing to question and oppose a measure. It is nothing less than American.

To Moderation in all Things - Your rational take on the health bill has been attacked greatly this morning by the entitlement leeches, lemmings and kool-aid drinkers. Thanks for telling the truth, even though they don't want you to share it. It is better for them to keep their heads firmly buried in the sand. I hope SOMEONE can rescue us from this mess! That person would be a shoe-in for the next Presidential election!!

GOP is hoping to sabotage the ‘fixes’ package with amendments

Is that fixes as in back room deals and bribes to vote against the people? It appears so to me. Yay Republicans if that is the case. It appears more like amendments to fix the sabotage rained on freedom and the Constitution by an ever increasing communist regime.

Now! Can all you left leaning progressives bleat Oba-a-a-ma for us?

MSNBC's poll on the passage of Oba-a-a-ma care.
25.3%
Excited. It extends coverage to 32 million Americans who lack it and bans insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. This is a tremendous step forward for the nation.
198,988 votes

67.5%
Angry. This legislation will harm the economy while mandating a government takeover of the health care system.
529,877 votes

6.3%
I don't know what to feel. I'm happy that more Americans will be insured, but don't think that anyone should be required to purchase coverage under the threat of costly penalties.
49,665 votes

0.9%
Other. Please sound off below.
7,039 votes

Why is it this article tries to claim only Republicans don't like this bill? Can we get a non-partisan or at least non Republican bashing editor please? There's plenty of unemployed people out there to choose from.

Based on the last poll on a LIBERAL site (see 1 post above), 67.5% of us are Republicans? Another 6.3% potential republicans?

wwaugh

America had an election, the people spoke. We elected our members of Congress. Congress passes bills, the President signs. Why is the GOP set against Democracy and want minority mob rule?

67.5% is not a minority mob rule. The 13% thsi bill covers at the expense of everyone else is a minority mob rule.

Occam's Razor

This artlcle misses the real story. The Republicans may bring forward as many road blocks to a bad bill as there were back room deals by the Democrats.

Exactly what I was going to say. They're trying to demonize a party listening to the wishes of the majority and leaving out they're against it because of the back room deals I thought only existed in mafia movies.

Democrats basically steamrolled this thing through against the public will, and refusing to reach out to the Republicans in compromise, so it's not surprising the Republicans will respond in kind with a counter-attack. Tit-for-tat... you get what you give.

I am not a Republican and I vote Democrat far more often than Republican (voted for Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama - though I'm angry enough over this to not vote for Democrats for a good long while at this point), but anything the Republicans can do to make this disaster better is a good thing at this point, no matter how long it has to be dragged out.

Individual Health Insurance Mandate Started as a Republican Idea:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/23/1544321/individual-health-insurance-mandate.html#Comments_Container

So the issue is making it federal?

Reterds do not CARE where it came from. They are the opposition party and are playing political GAMES!

If the dumbs are for it, the Reterds are against it!!!

Just look at how many Reterd ideas are in that health care bill, and compare that to how many reterds voted for it..

"Republican Values" playing politics with American lives and health.

"Republican Values" playing politics with American lives and health

Democrats lack of values playing politics with American lives, health, freedom and liberty.

*YAWN*

I'll just assume that your point was to point out my hypocrisy, since you did not make a factual challenge to anything I said at all.

Your assumtions are incorrect.... I'm not a democrat... No hypocrisy, and you did not even manage hurt my feelings!

I never said the Democrats had values!

I did insinuate that the ONLY value republicans seem to have is politics before country... and your lack of a challenge to that, speaks volumes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmlgwwCHof8

http://www.examiner.com/x-15870-Populist-Examiner~y2010m3d24-Republicans-once-supported-the-individual-mandate

"Republican Values" on display

There's one guarantee...for the insurance companies.

Your taxes will go up and your coverage will drop big time.

Watch and see.....

Taxes will have to go up regardless of the passage of this bill. The Bush tax cuts and wars guaranteed that. What this bill does is almost exactly what Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan were proposing when they were in office. Go back and read your republican history you blow hard.

So it's current criminals copying past criminals...hopefully they also follows Nixon's example in resigning.

Well who should we thank for getting the public option dropped the Republican party, so that spin won't work ..... And besides that the premiums have been going up year after year and I did not see one Republican complain about it, so thank the GOP for making the plan harder to do what it was intended too do......

34 Democrats voted against the Bill. The Republicans could never stop it. The Bill is so horrible, the the Democrats never really wanted. They always had more than enough members that could "yes".

Tell the truth or at least read the Bill.

Homer -

The Democratic Party is a diverse coalition of Reps that vote the way they feel is best. It is inclusive, and does not require "Stepford Congresspeople" that shut off their brains, read "talking points" from a sheet of paper, and vote as they are told - not what they think might be best for this country - as the GOP does.

The GOP could never understand that kind of independent thinking. The Dems are respectful of differing views, but are united in their belief that Congress has to work to accomplish things to make our lives better.

The GOP will spend millions on pointless lawsuits - ones they often decry as overly expensive when discussing doctors' insurance. Like we can afford to have multiple lawsuits about something legally passed into law, by a legally elected Congress - something they were not at all shy about when they had a majority. Now - suddenly - laws passed in Congress are not valid?

GOP = Hypocrisy, sour grapes, and unwillingness to admit they should have worked with the majority to get a bill they liked better to improve American lives. This country is seeing how bad a bad loser looks, and how little they care for reular folks. If they had put forth a comprehensive bill of their own, they would have risked that being critiqued - so they decided instead to do nothing and critique the majority instead. Cynical. Sad. Bad for Americans.

A bunch of cranky folks - mostly with Southern accents. Still can't get over the result of the civil war - Lincoln showed that the federal government would stand to hold this union together. Later - Eisenhower showed that the federal government would not stand for any American to have second class citizenship. BOTH were Republicans. I used to be too. That was when that party stood for doing what is right - and Southerners - who have little respect for this union - did not.

The scenario has changed, but the players are mostly the same. But when civil rights laws were passed by Democrats, the Dixie-crats fled to the GOP, looking for a place to hide their biases, and this changed the GOP to this day - unfortunately.

Now - the GOP is made up primarily of Congresspeople from south of the Mason-Dixon line, and all the old "Woaa of Nathen Aggression" rhetoric remains. But now they hide it behind a smile and surface good manners. I live here. I know. The GOP is no longer the party of fiscal conservatism. It now is the party of massive military spending, religious meddling in politics by hypocritical minsters and politicians, big corporate money that doesn't care how many millions of jobs it has sent overseas since Reagan, supports torture, spies on all Americans every time they do a transaction at the bank, starts wars, talks incessantly about tax cuts - but funds NONE of it. The stubborn Scottish blood in the South (I have some too) never allows them to admit they made a mistake, pay for anything they don't have to, or to compromise.

Just watch - you will see all of this - and they will encourage the fanatic part of their base to peform acts of domestic terrorism while the party blandly looks on and says nothing.

DeeToo you need to check your facts, many of the votes for the Civil Rights Act came from the GOP. There is opposition to this cynical bill from across our great land, it knows no geographic boundaries! In 2014-2016 when the next great health care "crisis" comes the one to which the Democrats' only answer is a single pay,socialist health care system, remember that some of us saw it coming long before it arrived!! This bill won't lower health care costs and toward the time it is supposed to go in effect people will lose coverage like never before as health insurance companies fail like never before!! That is the goal of this "reform" which wasn't designed to help the current imperfect private system, only to finish it off.

DeeToo is right Fred!! Democrats introduced that civil rights bill. A lot of Republicans voted for it. But those Dixie-crats did everything in their power to try to stop it. Imagine that...a bill that basically says that it's stupid to have rules in place to systematically keep a whole race of people on their knees. And these idiots thought that was wrong. They got so angry about it, that they switched parties. And the rallying cries from these known, DOCUMENTED, segregationist and racists...."states rights", "against the constitution", "will destroy this country"....this is the VERY SAME crap that you hear out of conservatives/extreme right/republicans today. Folks this isn't a discussion about admission into the country club...you guys can have that!!! But Let's be Real...This is THE ONLY ADVANCED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD where your health care is basically determined by your economic or social status. On something like whether people live or die, you don't sit around argueing about how much it costs. YOU JUST DO IT AND FIND A WAY!!!

This isn't going to do anything to lower costs and will only add to our already unsustainable debt load. While I agreed that something needed to be done about denying coverage in particular the despicable act of denying children coverage due to "pre-existing conditions" couldn't that have been accomplished without taking over the entire system.

Fred...I have a 16 month old born with Tetralogy of Fallot...a severe heart defect. We have great insurance coverage that paid for her +$300k hospital bill for open heart surgery and recovery when she was born. I can't tell you how many times a nurse, or receptionist, or doctor took a first glance at us and assumed that we were on some medical assistance program, but IMMEDIATELY changed their whole approach to us the moment they saw our insurance card. But I'm worried to death of what happens if I switch jobs. Or what happens to my daughter when she becomes an adult and can't get coverage. WHAT ABSOLUTELY KILLS ME about Republicans is that when Clinton tried to overhaul healthcare, the opponents said the exact same thing..."tort reform", "state lines", "blah, blah, blah". But when they got the majority and had EVERY opportunity to do something, what did they do? What "tort reform" bill did they introduce? I'll let you answer that. So today, I don't want to hear, "well, we should do this or that". That should be proof enough right there to everyone, that these people don't care about common folks. They're just trying to protect the companies that profit BIG TIME from the health care industry. So today, I'm happy. My daughter has a chance!!

By the way Fred, I'm black...grew up in the south in a town where most blacks only get jobs cleaning, fixing, or picking up something. I lived in a neighborhood with no sidewalks, no manicured lawns, no white people...and poverty everywhere. But with a music scholarship and a small pell grant, I was able to go to college and earn a degree. Today I work in finance. I have a perfect credit rating. I live in a 2400 sqare foot home with bermuda grass that will be starting to green soon. I'm officially a producer in this society. My parents had instilled in me good values and a desire to work for the things I wanted in life. And with just a little bit of opportunity, help and luck, I made it. I'd like to think that my story is the most realistic of people who benefit from...uh...."entitlements".

Richie-416314

And besides that the premiums have been going up year after year and I did not see one Republican complain about it

Really? You only follow liberal media I take it. I've heard about it for YEARS. The Dems keep shooting it down though. With supermajority and not needing a single Republican vote, did you see this in the Democrat sponsored bill that just passed? No? There's hint #1.

If you think you need to "educate" me,chuck I've spent a good portion of my adult life in the military and have seen "productive members of society" from many religions and ethnic groups as well as "non-productive members"! The goals of health care reform weren't the problem, the details are!!! I do agree that the GOP has taken little initiative and many of its' members believe that everything's fine with the current system which is absolutely false!! BTW I'm an Independent voter and have never belonged to the GOP!

Tha party is just starting.

For my money NEITHER party is worth it's salt and both ARE corrupted to serving THEIR 'greater good'... invested corporatism at the expense of American businesses and American capitalism. That is the real heart of the matter here, and all other ailments of our once great nation.

Neither party wants power to rest with the majority of Americans, the Middle Class. It's only to be used; used to keep the ants busy with civil unrest creating class warfare amongst it and the lower class, and used to continually (without fail, no matter WHICH Donkephant is in 'control') promote corporate and government corporo interests and earnings ever climbing. It's always being raided; always to the benefit of the 'higher ups' and sometimes, to keep the class warfare alive, to give to the 'lower downs'.

Selling out American businesses overseas, promoting and really ENFORCING the exodus, now rewarding big pharma and health insurance companies.... whatever it takes to keep a constant positive growth earnings on investements. Without a great deal of manipulation, by our supposed representatives, the Illegal Federal Reserve, the U.N., the WTO this would be impossible; economies and investment growths simply do NOT work this way.

This is why this health care fiasco has played out as it has and why the Blue vs. Red warfare (amongst citizens, NOT the politicians... don't be fooled; like defense lawyers and prosecutors, they will go out after for dinner and drinks) remains alive and well.

Republicans had their chance, Bush did this and his Congress that, but so is Owebama and his Congress so why not, and at least they did something, and, and......

The reality stands: there is nothing being done here, and what is, is being done so quite incorrectly and expensively. Instead of common sense prevailing, instead of real reforms, fixes, and getting to the root of the ills, people are pizzed that this is what we ended up with, and fear what it may yet lead to..... because many, MANY no longer trust either Donkephant.

Again, they're merely a sembelance of what they once were, and are no longer worth their salt.

I agree Moderation

The number of posts claiming 'neener, neener, neener...you lost' are equal with the number of posts claiming 'oh, yeah...well, we will get you' (repeal, next election, etc).

The adults in my family voted very differently in the last election, some even switched parties from their original choice as the pool narrowed and vice-presidents were chosen. We don't call each other names, brag or threaten each other.

I kind of feel like the media is 'yanking everyone's chain' by encouraging devisive talk (to get immediate, gut felt comments and sell papers, TV or radio shows). That is not responsible, nor informative reporting.

Leave it to our absurd state-run media to call doing what the MAJORITY of Americans want "sabotage".

It's no secret that MSNBC was purchased early in the campaign.

"MSNBC Backs Obama, Gets $139 Billion Gov Guarantee"

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/11/15/pinkerton-msnbc-strategy-support-obama-get-139-billion-government-#ixzz0gtpqiqGj

pjam, I think you should re-evaluate your stance on media neutrality if you're posting stories from a site whose tag is "Exposing & Combating Liberal Media Bias".

GE Capital is a bank - they received a bailout in the fall of 2008. That hardly makes them unique.

Bravo. Read on...they say the media is not biased, yet sabotage is their word of choice. Thanks, Dave-1384240... and pjam09, for the link to the msnbc story. Just remember, November is coming. There are plenty of voters who thought they'd made a bright choice, only to see that their voice was not heard once these "representatives" were seated...anyone who heard the Rules Committeeman who said "there are no rules, we make them up as we go along" should be quaking in their boots. OMG...the American People need to wake up and get back to reading just what the Founding Fathers wrote regarding representation, term limits, and States' Rights. Then they need to get involved at the caucus level and start making their voices heard. Government control in our lives was NOT what the FF originally planned. A government large enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have (T. Jefferson). Our entitlement society in the USA is in for a big wake up call if this kind of "damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead" garbage continues...we're BROKE and just charged another big bill to my grandchildren. (Reminds me of a college buddy, who, when she heard she was overdrawn at the bank, wrote a check to cover it...STUPID).

There are plenty of voters who might just be waking up to the fact that the republicans are the do nothings of the congress at a time when real leaders need to step up and broker agreements for the benefit of the citizenry.

Mike -

You're right, unfortunately getting bailed out doesn't make them unique. And how much trust do you put in what AIG or GM tells you?

Steve - how do yo step up and broker anything when those you have to talk to tell you to shut up and go away you are not going to have a say in what we are doing- but hey why expect you to see that you are so into the Democrat BS and have their rants down pat- to bad both sides are more interested in their party (and in Obama's case his policies and politics and the hell with anyone else's ideas)

Nana - aren't you tired yet of quoting "the founding fathers"? Did you know them personally? Are you not aware that there were differing points of view among them as well?

Are you from Texas, where they are trying not to teach this?

I called it yesterday. All the angry posters that were here yesterday (and I see a bunch of you are back today) were citing MSNBC polls as gold to bolster their case. Today, they are right back to the MSNBC is evil and biased BS. I think there is a huge swath of the population that needs mental health treatment NOW!

Sabotage sounds like a good choice of words: I would call it like I see It too.

Dragonchef

to bad both sides are more interested in their party

I'd have to say the Tea Party movement sort of disproves that for one side. They didn't form the party to back business as usual Republicans. They even have a list of Republicans to vote out who wandered too far from the principal beliefs of conservatism.

Sabotage is not the correct term. It's more like the Republicans are trying to "derail" the bill the same way you would derail a run away train.

Apparently, you are a legal scholar who should have been advising the GOP (Greed Over Patriotism) obstructionists who based their objections on "death panels", "baby killing", insuring illegals, etc.

what are you thinking (?) -

The law was passed legally. Just as other bills of the same type using reconciliation were passed by Republicans resoundingly during the Bush years.

And quoting the bible already? And which Republican icon of virtue would you hold out as an example - McCain (2nd wife), Ensign (sex and bribery), Sanford (sex and misuse of public funds), Vitter (hookers), or the one who liked Congressional pages, or the ones who worked with Abramoff, or the ones who worked with Ken Lay to bing down Enron, Craig (wide stance), etc. Sure - both sides have them. Just wanted you to know that those who are NOT without sin should not be throwing stones.

This legislation has ZERO to do with the bible, except it does try to promote what Jesus said was important - caring for each other, avoiding profit from religion, turning the other cheek, devoting your life to things that are GOOD, "blessed are the peacemakers", "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth", blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted", etc. You know - He stood for doing what made life better - not what gave a select group more power.

Chew on that one.

PERFECT DEETOO. I live in the south. These conservative/republican bible belt people can throw religion up in a heartbeat. They REALLY feel like God is behind their bigotry, war mongering, and complete lying on and demonizing of people that they don't agree with. These people can quote you a bible verse in one breath, then insult or pass judgement on a homosexual, or a hispanic, or anyone else that they deem "inferior". I'm sure God just loves it when they do that.

Dee Too

I heart that response.

DeeToo

The law was passed legally. Just as other bills of the same type using reconciliation were passed by Republicans resoundingly during the Bush years.

So you like business as usual? I don't. I thought you guys were on an 8 year tear because of things like this. Now it's ok because George did it too?

I don't know where you got that 65% figure, but it is wrong. The latest poll I saw had 49% in favor and 43% opposed. In one poll, yours perhaps, a majority disapproved of the bill, but that included a significant number who thought it didn't go far enough. And if there were alternatives, we didn't hear about them from the Republicans, who were stuck in NO.

Sincerely:

Sadly the Silent Majority was not included in the GOP's 66.5% of people not wanting healthcare tally. They only counted the party faithful. Now when you add in the rest of the population, 66.5% of the people WANT healthcare.

Stop the fear-mongering and honestly admit that people should be able to purchase health insurance without fear of rejection due to pre-existing conditions.

And when the GOP decides to stop fear-mongering and start thinking, you should quickly realize that the taxpayers of this country pay for the healthcare of ALL the unemployed, illegal aliens, etc. because they and their employers are not required to have health insurance. How are we paying? Through Medicaid - all county hospitals are required to treat patients whether or not they can pay. When they cannot pay, the bill for medical services is sent to the state and the state pays. The states get money from the federal government as well as from the taxes they levy. So... we taxpayers pay for those who do not or can not pay. Wouldn't it be better if everyone had to pay SOMETHING???

If you agree to both the above items, guess what - YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT!!!

Unless your last name is Gates, Kennedy, McCain or Romney, you cannot afford to be a Republican, because you do not have the personal wealth it takes to join the GOP. The GOP may take your vote, but you will not be allowed to play in their sandbox. The Kennedy's can afford to be part of the GOP, but thankfully they have compassion for the masses. This is why they are the most revered members of the Democratic Party, they care about people other than themselves.

Most of the people that are against health care reform are on a government sponsored medical assistance programs and/or they are towing the party line for the GOP.

No one else in their right mind would be against controlling health care costs and providing coverage to the Middle Class.

According to Rasmussen, a polling agency that has been praised by both democrats and republicans, and was the closest to predicting the actual 2008 election results, currently 54% of all Americans oppose the bill. Since November no less than 52% of Americans have opposed this bill with it getting as high as 58% at some points. Going back to last June the most support the bill ever got was 51%, and has averaged low 40s since November.

26% of those surveyed strongly support the bill versus 45% strongly oppose.

55% of those polled stated a desire to have the bill scrapped and started over.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Given the disaster of stimulus package we have had, and this lump of coal that has now been put in our stocking, and given the attitude of the democrats; which has been one of vindictiveness and bushesque go it alone mentality, we will probably see the fastest turn of fortunes ever in American politics. Unfortunately, unless the moderate wing tea party movement get more libertarian minded Republicans in office I have little faith the republicans will make things better.

LU

this bill does nothing to support middle class health care. Quite the opposite. This bill is aimed at the 15% that are uninsured, which am I counted at the moment, at the expense of the 85% who are, which counts middle class Americans.

This bill does nothing to address:

Inflating costs because of the fee for service system and excessive medical tests because we treat healthcare like an ordinary consumable.

How to pay for the millions of baby boomers who will soon require more and more medical care

The messed up litigious system that makes doctors order more tests to cover their rears, hint, letting patients waive certain liabilities would have been a decent idea that was never put forth

How it will be paid. Only a fool would believe the line about spending a trillion dollars, which we will have to borrow because who honestly believes this program will be under budget, will cause a hundred billion in savings.

Or at what point do we say that we have done all we can. Some conservatives would scream about death panels, but making decisions like these is necessary. At some point pouring in more money will do nothing to save a persons life.

What it will do.

Cost far more than we ever anticipated

Increase the national debt

In the long term increasing government control of healthcare

Make pharma more money

Be a stupendous disaster like another social project by LBJ0 by the name of the War on Poverty

I think the poor are way more people than the RICH so how can the poll be right 65% against, these clowns think everyone are as stupid as them ..... LOL LOL LOL

The 66.5 % figure came from the MSNBC poll yesterday or the day before asking how many people were "excited" about the health care law and how many were "angry" and 66.5% were angry. MSNBC is not exactly the bastion of the GOP. Congress could have passed a simple law stating that insurance coverage could not be denied due to a preexisting condition, and that a patient cannot be dropped due to illness. That's simple. Same for some reasonable tort reform. They didn't have to create a monstrosity.

People paid cash for health care before insurance came along. Now it is a problem because it is not based on capitalism. We go to the doctor and have no idea what it costs because it is paid by insurance, so what do we care? Prices are not posted and any invoices are coded or with indecipherable medical terminology so we don't question it. Meanwhile prices skyrocket. How about a law to force price posting and bills in plain english and charge the same price to everyone - how simple is that? Allow comparison shopping like we do for everything else - what a novel idea. But no we have to create 16,000 new IRS agents and god knows how many agencies to enforce this insane law.

Well how many poor or unemployed people can afford a computer and an Internet connection?, so why in the world would anyone think the poll was valid? talk about a lack of common sense people that are over educated is lacking in the main area that enables logical decision making that's why we have so many SHEEP running around today .......

"The republicans are working for the 66.5% of Americans who do not want this law."

Another Republican just making stuff up.

Mitch McConnell has about as much credibility as Howdy Doody. They had plenty of time to add their ideas and participate and they chose not to. So now let's try to destroy everything. Who in their right mind would vote for any of these people? John McCain is having a melt down and sounds like some crazed lunatic with alzheimers. It just keeps getting better.

John McCain's campaign will be the entertaining one to watch. I guess he's running on a platform of "Please send money and re-elect me so I can do nothing for the next 6 years".

The polls don't make a bit of difference in this case because most people don't have any idea of what is in the bill, what it will do or anything else thanks to all the lying rhetoric coming from a group that will do anything to get people to denounce Obama as President.

There are very sour grapes coming from the Republicans and the political atmosphere they have created is the more hostile than it has ever been toward any sitting President. There is not a word in any language that can describe how sick the Republican party is at this point.

The Republicans have zero scruples and zero credibility anymore. When people start benefiting from this bill and the sky doesn't fall like they told everyone it would they are going to have some explaining to do.

I'm sure they will find a way to take credit for it though. They are good at it.

The idea of mandating insurance was there idea. Now they're against it. How this got passed what no different than how they have done things. Now they're against that. I guess they can count on their base to be ignorant enough to not see the BS but the rest of us can.

IMWatching and Eris2010,

Wow - you guys are incredible. Not a darned single fact in any of your posts, but lots of accusations and slander. Stupidity is rampant here, and you guys are the poster children. Here's a challenge to you. Let's discuss actual facts. Let's leave the name calling, nazi references, Bush bashing, etc alone for a moment, OK?

I'll ask you a series of questions. Please reply with answers. No sarcasm. No insults. No back-handed crapola. Just the facts. If you're truly honest enough. Failing to do so will prove to all that you're just empty cowards, devoid of any real knowledge, satisfied to just call names and lie. I'll put it all aside for a moment if you will. I don't think you will.

1) What percentage of ER users across this country currently do not have insurance (prior to yesterday)?

2) Of the remaining balance, how do they break down? What age groups? What per capita health care costs?

3) What percentage of health care spending does insurance company profits currently make up?

4) What were the liberals projections for Medicare spending in the year 1990 when Medicare was passed?

5) What was the actual spend for Medicare in 1990?

6) What is the current spend for Medicare?

7) What group of patients currently add the most cost to the premiums of the insured? (Hint - they currently have coverage)

8) What has been the reduction in health care spending in the commonwealth of Mass since the implementation of THEIR program?

9) In what specific way does the new law actually constrain or reduce the cost of medical care?

When you truly answer these questions - no bias, no BS - an interesting story is painted. Eris, your statement of

There are very sour grapes coming from the Republicans and the political atmosphere they have created is the more hostile than it has ever been toward any sitting President. There is not a word in any language that can describe how sick the Republican party is at this point

is highly suggestive of your inability to discuss anything rationally.

I truly feel sorry for you.

IMwatching it is a FACT that most people do not know what is in this bill or how it will affect them.

That is easily seen even here within Newsvine as there are people stating facts that are not even facts when it comes to this bill.

Secondly it is a fact that mandating insurance was first a Republican idea. It is also a fact that Republicans have used reconciliation.

As for the statement being made in regards to the Republicans pushing a hostile environment, then why were so many reluctant to answer the question about Obama's place of birth? They enjoyed the fact that people were denouncing him as President due to the insane idea that he was not a U.S. citizen and one even went as far as to try and push a bill that asks for proof of citizenship. It was a real coincidence that it just happened to come up now wasn't it. They have used words like socialism, radical and communist to inspire hate and dissent. And your blatant disregard for these facts suggest you are either out of touch or not at all rational yourself.

Interesting you would like your questions answered while you totally disregard facts given by proclaiming them untrue with nothing to back that up other than your own opinion.

So to be fair I will back up my statements.

Congress used reconciliation to pass Medicare Advantage. As part of the http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=105_cong_bills&docid=f:h2015enr.txt.pdf#page=25" href="http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Ffrwebgate.access.gpo.gov%2Fcgi-bin%2Fgetdoc.cgi%3Fdbname%3D105_cong_bills%26docid%3Df%3Ah2015enr.txt.pdf%23page%3D25">Balanced Budget Act of 1997, enacted through the reconciliation process, Congress -- which was controlled by the Republicans at the time -- created the "Medicare+Choice Program," currently known as http://www.medicare.gov/choices/advantage.asp" href="http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medicare.gov%2Fchoices%2Fadvantage.asp">Medicare Advantage or Medicare Part C. The program allows seniors to enroll in HMO-type plans rather than the traditional Medicare fee-for-service plan.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201002240053

The Mandate

"It was invented by Mark Pauly to give to George Bush Sr. back in the day, as a competition to the employer mandate focus of the Democrats at the time."

One reason the individual mandate appealed to conservatives is because it called for individual responsibility to address what economists call the "free-rider effect." That's the fact that if a person is in an accident or comes down with a dread disease, that person is going to get medical care, and someone is going to pay for it.

"We called this responsible national health insurance," says Pauly. "There was a kind of an ethical and moral support for the notion that people shouldn't be allowed to free-ride on the charity of fellow citizens."

The GOP's 1993 measure included some features Republicans still want Democrats to consider, including damage award caps for medical malpractice lawsuits.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123670612

Hatch and several other senators who now oppose the so-called individual mandate actually supported the bill that would have required it.

Congressman Nathan Deal (R-GA) among them.

Except, by asking for Obama's birth certificate, Deal insists he's not questioning the president's "legitimacy" as other birthers may. He just thinks it is something President Obama would like to "clear up."

That's why he asked for it after it had already been provided in 2008. To clear up something that had already been cleared? He was stirring the pot and he knew it.

So when you can point out how any of these facts are not facts I will gladly have a rational discussion with you. Because to me it seems you're the one with a problem.

IMWatching

"The republicans are working for the 66.5% of Americans who do not want this law."

Another Republican just making stuff up.

That figure came from msnbc.com. A liberal site.

Pffft, Republicans oppose the LAW based on a pack of lies... A waste of tax payer $$

Pure political grandstanding and bad theater.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmlgwwCHof8

http://www.examiner.com/x-15870-Populist-Examiner~y2010m3d24-Republicans-once-supported-the-individual-mandate

"Republican Values" on display

I apologize for my delay in responding. Unfortunately, I have to work in order to support people like Eris2010.

WTH are you talking about with respect to Obamas place of birth or citizenship? Just like a liberal shill - when you DON'T have any facts, you deflect and try to change the discussion .

Let's be clear, pal. We're talking about THIS LAW. THIS ONE. Do you get it? To assume that just because a republican in the past suggested something be CONSIDERED also means that I - or the majority of conservatives would have supported it is pure idiocy. There is no basis of fact.

Stay on point. Discuss the points brought up about THIS LAW. As for reconciliation, I would also ask you to put up or shut up. I'm doing so. You appear incapable. Show me where reconciliation was EVER used for something of this magnitude with only partisan support - not even bringing up public opposition.

You continue to make the point that you are incapable of discussing the truth.

To assume that just because a republican in the past suggested something be CONSIDERED also means that I - or the majority of conservatives would have supported it is pure idiocy. There is no basis of fact.

You obviously missed the point...

Let me explain, and this time I will type SLOWER for you.

Republicans proposed the "individual mandate" back in 1993, meaning that they knew it to be constitutional then, and when it comes up now, suddenly they think the constitution has changed? No..... so they know it is constitutional, and they want to bring a constitutional challenge to it, because it is not their bill! Nothing but pure political grandstanding. Worthless political theater! Now who gets to pay for this show? Taxpayers...

"Republican Values" in action

Party before country

For 30 years, major changes to health care laws have passed via the budget reconciliation process.

Here are a few examples:

1982 — TEFRA: The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act first opened Medicare to HMOs

1986 — COBRA: The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act allowed people who were laid off to keep their health coverage, and stopped hospitals from dumping ER patients unable to pay for their care

1987 — OBRA '87: Added nursing home protection rules to Medicare and Medicaid, created no-fault vaccine injury compensation program

1989 — OBRA '89: Overhauled doctor payment system for Medicare, created new federal agency on research and quality of care

1990 — OBRA '90: Added cancer screenings to Medicare, required providers to notify patients about advance directives and living wills, expanded Medicaid to all kids living below poverty level, required drug companies to provide discounts to Medicaid

1993 — OBRA '93: created federal vaccine funding for all children

1996 — Welfare Reform: Separated Medicaid from welfare

1997 — BBA: The Balanced Budget Act created the state-federal childrens' health program called CHIP

2005 — DRA: The Deficit Reduction Act reduced Medicaid spending, allowed parents of disabled children to buy into Medicaid

Hmmm looks like Republicans not only like to use reconsiliation, it has been used on health care reforms in the past! So calling it the "nuclear option" and saying the bill is a "government take over" and has "death panels", is nothing but pure political theater!

Republicans lying, to hurt and divide America, and further their political agenda.

"Republican Values"

Here is a Reterdican view from 2005:

Published: March 10, 2005

To the Editor:

"The Senate on the Brink" (editorial, March 6) supports the "historic role of the filibuster," which is a curious position for a newspaper that 10 years ago said filibusters were "the tool of the sore loser" and should be eliminated ("Time to Retire the Filibuster," editorial, Jan. 1, 1995).

Federal judicial appointments have certainly been controversial, but surely all Americans can agree that the rules for confirming judges should be the same regardless of which party has a majority.

Advertisement

Now you praise the filibuster as a "time-honored Senate procedure." In 1995, when Bill Clinton was president, you called it "an archaic rule that frustrates democracy and serves no useful purpose."

You disparage the Republicans' view that 51 votes should be enough for judicial confirmation. Yet the 51-vote rule is a consistent Senate tradition. By calling for an end to filibusters, the Senate is simply contemplating restoring its traditions by traditional methods you disparage as "nuclear," even though they were once endorsed by such leading Democrats as Senators Edward M. Kennedy, Charles E. Schumer and Robert C. Byrd.

John Cornyn
U.S. Senator from Texas
Washington, March 7, 2005

I wonder what he thinks of Reconsiliation now.....

“It stinks,” Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, said as he pondered the prospect of Democrats pulling the trigger on reconciliation.

"Republican Values"

So that must be the 60 some percent on this very site yesterday with the poll Newsvine did. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm to your scrawny little 20 some percent??? hahahahahahahaha

Susan dear, the Newsvine poll is not a scientific sample and has to be ignored.

Well then, all elections aren't scientific samples and must be ignored also? Elections are real simple---he with the most votes wins.

Also, the MSNC poll was 73% opposed to the passing of this bill----a hugh majority.

Jamie, dear - "Susan dear, the Newsvine poll is not a scientific sample and has to be ignored."

Talk about denial. What would you call the election of Scott Brown based on his platform of stopping this bill? Have you been able to rationalize that to yourself or is it simply something that "has to be ignored"?

Seeing only what you want to see results in a complete lack of vision.

Jamie R

Hello reality calling!!!! Do you think any of the surveys done by any of the pollsters is a scientific survey? Geez where did you fall out of???? All surveys are done to get the answers that the particular surveyor wants. Thats why they word them one way. Still doesn't make them scientific or in any way backed by science.

Michael,

but a republican being elected in a state that hasn't elected a republican for that seat in decades is certainly a big hint about how people feel about this.

Talk about denial. What would you call the election of Scott Brown based on his platform of stopping this bill?

A joke...since he so obviously failed.

Mia

get a grip and pull your head out Brown didn't get a chance because the House had to go with the Senate's bill or do you really think this would have passed if the house and the senate tried to agree on their bills.

k2000k

You are absolutely right and we will see more of it in November.

All you poor saps that bought that #41 BS about Scott Brown. Did any of you oafs even realize that the house AND the senate had already passed the bills BEFORE his election and what just happened very well and probably would happen? Duped again. Should have read your constitutions and case law precidents before yesterday. And I hear ya'll are talking about putting up ole Mitt Romney again to run for president. You all remember him, the Governor that signed into law in his state (with the smiling vote of Scott Brown) a health care bill damn near EXACTLY like this one. LMAO I think you all may have Alzheimer's.

Shellie--Oh how I hope the Repubs. make Romney there candidate for the 2012 election. There's no way he'll get elected! The conservative Bible Belt folks don't consider him 'Christian' since he's a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Reid is also LDS, and look how much they hate him! Romney as the Repub. candidate is a sure victory again for President Obama!

I don't blame the parties or the politicians, I blame the people that blindly follow them.

Wow, first Ted Kennedy and now Lincoln...too bad no admirable living people support this bill.

I don't think many dead people are going to show up at the polls this fall.

If they did it would not be the first time.

There will be a HUGE drop in dead voters this November. Remember, ACORN folded, and all it's little nuts keeping calling names and insulting conservatives. The passage of this bill was like getting a square peg through a round hole. They kept getting a bigger hammer until it fit. And, to all of you libs out there, I'll compare brainpans with you anyday! Problem is, you need to go get you some first!

Yes I am a member of the "Party of NO I DON"Y WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE OVER THE PRIVATE SECTOR" Let's see, Banks, Auto makers, doctors, hospitals, ....

KOmen:

The government HAS NOT taken over banking, auto makers, doctors, hospitals, etc. and you well know that.

Here's a question: Democrats didn't much care for GW Bush as POTUS, but they dealt with it. Why are you GOPers behaving like such poor losers? Do you people believe that no one but the GOP can govern or are you just racists and bigots?

Democrats tried to stop GW as often as they could. You are in the minority dazed, most Americans hate this bill. You can tell yourself whatever you want, that they are ignorant, racist, or duped by the GOP. Doesn't make it any less true. You are on the wrong side of this issue.

Most Americans ? The polls show that only Republicans hate this bill. ONLY about 28% of America identifies with the Republican party and that is dwindling rapidly.

More like trying to stop the left wing libs from sabotaging the economy with their trillion dollar entitlement program.

Dazed and Amazed-1

Here's a question: Democrats didn't much care for GW Bush as POTUS, but they dealt with it.

Yes we know. We had to listen to the whining for 8 years. It's actually still going on and more like 9 now. Too bad the Dems shot down his only attempt at helping health care.

You missed almost all of your facts.

The Dems were the ones against civil rights, if ALGORES dad was still around, he would tell you he hated the idea.

KOmen but in those days conservatives were democrats, in the 60's all the racist conservative in a mass Exodus moved to the GOP lead by George Herbert Walker Bush... study your political parties a bit more hun.

Well said!

Ummm no. You need to go back and look at your history. Check out that old KKK member from West Virginia or do you Dems just tolerate him because he is old and feeble. Also I don't recall Ole George Wallace changing parties. How about Howard Smith of Virginia and the list goes on and on.

If the GOP could repeal the social security, medicare/medicaid, and unemployment benefits; they would. They never liked these social programs and never will. It affects their profits plain and simple. Why pay taxes for these so called fat and lazy Americans that they keep referring to?

SKVAM

Nicely said and so true!

The Democratic " Dixiecrats " actually began moving to the Republican Party in the late 1940's when Harry Truman integrated the Armed Forces , the election of JFK , a Catholic caused more to leave the party and the exodus was completed when Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Bills of 1964 and 1968 ensuring equal rights for all.

The Democrats who disagreed with Equal Rights effectively ALL became Republicans ( except for Byrd , Richard Russell and a few others ) by the late 1960's. This is verifiable fact. Strom Thurmond led the pack actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030127/mcwhorter

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1751.html

http://www.educationanddemocracy.org/FSCfiles/C_CC4b_PowerOfTheDixiecrats.htm

Facts please , not GOP revisionist history.

Those who believe a strong majority are against this bill would do well to tally the votes here. The majority here seem to be for the bill.

This is not an issue the Republicans can win on. (remember how McCain was going to win based on the Iraq issue?) This is an issue which the Republican strategists early decided made Obama vulnerable and ever since they've put maximum effort into the defeat of the bill to defeat Obama. The actual bill is not most of the scary things that have been said, and now Republicans have to run against the actual law. Worse, by blocking the reconciliation bill they put themselves FOR the "Louisiana purchase" and nearly all of the objectionable parts of the original bill. Blocking the reconciliation bill won't in any way weaken the health care bill, it will merely leave in the bad parts. Is that really the stand you want to take?

gg

Nice try. The key word there was on one attempt. He actually ran for President four times and three as a Dem. He also served 16 years in office as the Democratic Governor of Alabama. A little more history you left out. Want some more. He was actually endorsed by the NAACP in his first run for Governor in the late 50s.

It wasn't until he lost that run that he became a segregationist but he really never changed parties and he most certainly never became a Republican.

Maybe Susan you could on moral grounds have your mother or father, or yourself, give up their social security. It is also RooseveltCare. You ought to hate it and fight it just as your conservative leaders do, trying to destroy it by "privatizing" it. And you on moral grounds should refuse to get mandated auto insurance (and don't say having a car is voluntary, that is just a cop out of an argument). Be brave, live your "morality." See you in 2013, when our fellow American citizens will begin to see that they are no longer at the mercy of insurance companies and their Republican friends and benefactors.

Oh brother... moral grounds, what a idiot. Do you realize they are stealing from Medicare to foot their new agenda, where does that leave your mother and father. DEAD! Thats what is coming.. the old will die first then the disabled. Sooooo this thing don't start working till 2014.. and lets see they are stealing from medicare to pay for there healthcare, so who do you think will die first.

Medicare fix - get rid of it and make the HMOs not exclude the old/sick/injured - and having the US taxpayer subsidize HMO profit margins by putting the elderly into Medicare. People pay into Medicare, but NOT enough. Or, the other "fix" could be to jack up the premiums to an adequate size that Medicare is not longer in the red - but people don't like to pay, just get.

Social Security fix - cut everyone a check for what they have paid in, and end the program the next day. It would be cheaper in the long run, and get rid of it - two of my grandmas lived over 90 years! Or, take away the cap of $102k (last I looked, keeps rising), and hey, the wealthy will pay more...but wait, then they'll have to be paid more too at retirement - will that work? (I'll be due about $3000 a month already, could SS afford to pay twice that?? I don't expect to see a dime!) Or, in the spirit of its inception, when there were about 16-1 workers to retiree (now about 8-1?) we can bring in a hoard of young foreign workers to bring that ratio up to doable levels once more. There, that's 3 choices. (I say do away with SS.)

Susan,

Where you're from, is this a sentence?

And the in 2013.

It didn't take long for you Susan to use bad words like idiot. Shame on you. And I think I would rather trust what Republicans trust, the Congressional Budget Office. Because of this bill, Medicare is now solvent for a much longer period. It is Republicans who in 8 years ruined America financially and morally. Because of Republican hate, torture, captured Americans could be waterboarded (even McCain made this argument). Because of unfunded wars and the medications bills, your Republican Senate, House and President left our nation bankrupt and a slave of China. But I assume another bit of bileful hate out of your lips will be enough of a response from you. What would Jesus think of you? Repent.

Gee, Susan,

You seem to have already forgotten why the republicans were voted out of office in the first place.

For example, the republicans were in control for 8 years. During that time THEY took a budget SURPLUS and turned it into a RECORD budget DEFICIT.

Of course during republican control, health insurance costs continued to INCREASE, and health care costs did too.

And then there's a few other things the republicans gave us - like TWO un-won wars, TWO recessions, INCREASING un-employment, etc.

And you REALLY want the republicans back???

Afterall, the democrats are already starting to fix some of the problems the republicans caused. For example, the stock market has recovered 26% of its value, we are on the way to becoming LESS dependant on foreign oil, the un-employment rate is decreasing, etc.

And you want to go back to republican control? You must like problems!

Well put.

The American people reject ObamaCare 56% to 40%, they overturn Kennedy's senate seat and give it to a Republican to stop ObamaCare -- but that doesn't matter to the Democrats. They still ram it through against the American people with legislative dirty pool. If the Republicans will use the same dirty pool to defeat this monstrocity, then more power to them.

bbagot. Love your eye for an eye. And you, being a conservative, I assume you claim to be a believer in the Christian foundations of America? Dirty pool? Wallowing in the mud is not the baptism you should be seeking.

SKVAN

Medicare is not going to be solvent!!!! How can a program be solvent when there is no, I REPEAT, NO money to pay for it.

Definition of solvency: The ability of a corporation to meet its long-term fixed expenses and to accomplish long-term expansion and growth.

Adding more debt decreases solvency, it decreases our ability to pay our debts. For the sake of a few votes the future is being mortgaged off.

How about stop using the social security funds as a pet project ATM? It was running fine until both Democrats and Republicans been using it to fund wars and pet projects INSTEAD of its tended purpose. Imagine if they privatized it like they tried to? It would have created a bigger bubble in the stock market and would have destroyed it.

But the Republican Congress never actually does anything to fix or reform the health care system, even when they had control of both Houses of Congress and the Whitehouse. Saying you will reform health care and reforming health care are totally different. For example, Republicans say they want to reform health care and do nothing, while Democrats say they want to reform health care and do it (at least a start anyway). See the difference?

Oh brother, I could care less if he is black, purple, orange or white. He is one big failure.. if he was McCain doing this I would be just as angry.

Susan, so why do Republicans portray him in racist ways, in white face, on a box of pancakes, why do they think he is not a "true" American, why do they spit on African American legislators and call them racist names? Maybe if you were hated in these ways, if people spit on you because of something about you, you might see what is so clear in front of your face. Not every Republican is a racist, but every racist finds a comfortable home in the Republican Party. Don't worry, within the next 10-20 years, the apartheid, racist, militia, reactionary parts of what keeps you from Jesus will be consigned to a minority position, with brown, black, red, and yellow people being together in the majority. Is that what you fear? Don't. No one wants to be hateful like your party now seems to be. Home to the haters. Repent and be born again.

Also, don't be such a hypocrite, go look in the mirror and see another person filled with hate.

RayvenAhole-

I'm sure your children appreciate that, since they hate Obama for ruining their futures.

Simple minds look for simple reasons to explain logic and reasoning which they cannot grasp.

I've been having the same thought. I don't think it's just racism, but I do think it's a big part of it. For one thing, they just can't accept the fact that their beloved United States has a black president. So they parade around with signs making him look like Hitler or the Joker. They just can't stand it, though they'll always deny that it has anything to do with race.

They also have this demented idea that this healthcare bill is akin to paying African Americans reparations for their interment into slavery. They feel like black Obama is raising taxes on hard working whites to pay for the healthcare of those lazy blacks. They just can't let go of yesterday.

Susan Please tell us about your successful life and accomplishments.

Susan, I feel sorry for you. But your response, "look in the mirror" is an unsophisticated and illogical statement. Ad hominem statements prove your inability to think clearly.

Susan, there is another party that the GOP reminds me of, the Whigs. What ever happened to those guys? Oh yeah, they slowly lost their constituency by being obstructionist and causing financial turmoil.

Wow a name drop for the Whigs.

Nice. Someone knows their history.

"They still don't understand why they lost the last two elections;"

The last noteworthy elections I recall were the East coast mayors, and Mass. special election. In case you forgot it wasn't the Repubs who lost.

You've just witnessed the biggest "lack of learning" in American political history: A traditionally Democratic state elects a Republican Senator based on the fact that he will kill heathcare...and they bribe, scheme, maneuver and force it on the people anyway.

What Dems got in Massachusetts they will get ten-fold for decades to come, but deep-down you already know that, dont you?

Hi, pjam,

They said the same thing after social security and medicare was passed, but guess what? The republicans have still continue to lose elections.

We'll see if that Senator holds on to his seat. Sometimes a minority sneaks one through.

Rick - I just gave you specific examples of your precious political party having their ass handed to them, what are your examples? This bill is the product of this administration, elections since this administration came into office spells out the future very clearly.

Rick you seriously need to go back and check the votes on social security and medicare. The republicans had a minority in both the House and the Senate. It was their votes that allowed cloture in the Senate and passed Medicare. Both Bills were bipartisan in both houses.

Only 20 republicans in both houses combined voted against social security.The Dems tried to stop medicare.

How did the Democrats try and stop a Democrat program ?? They tried to sop their own bill ? Doesn't even make sense.

pjam, since you take such stock in governors races, which by the way have nothing to do with the house or senate. Please, tell us all why you so conveniently left out NY 23.

JaiAllen

You have no clue do you? Read history. By the way was the Health Reform Bill a Dem or Rep Bill. I will make it easy it was a Dem Bill. Now how many Dems voted against it? Does that make it simple enough for you? Figure it out and don't make yourself seem to no nothing about politics whatsoever.

The GOP tactics are mild in comparison to what the Democrats used to force their bill through against the will of the American people. When Kennedy country doesn't want ObamaCare and puts in a Republican for the first time in 50 years you would think the Democrats would catch on -- but they didn't care.

What is the GOP up to? Trying to stop a bad plan and not allow those who usurp the legislative process for their own ends to be victorious against the American people. It's not hard to see.

bbagot, the polls are showing that the majority of Americans want this legislation, now that they're learning about what is really in it. Sorry, you'll have to use another excuse.

It is impressive just how naive and simple the conservative base really is. The GOP has one and only one agenda, and it has nothing to do with the American people. They are dead set on destroying the legislative agenda of the President of the United States. There is no depth they will not sink to, nothing they will not accuse, no tactic too strong they will not undertake. This is all out war to stop the first Black President from gaining any sort of success. Look at their overt violations of senate decorum. They are going after the president as if their lives depend on it.

Only the President of the United States has pushed for Credit Card Reform, Health Reform, Wall Street Reform...And each time the Republican's alternative was non-existent. Instead they appeared to be in strong and defiant support of status quo. And that is not hard to see...if you are actually looking.

I have to disagree, bbagot,

The fact is Obama INSISTED that the new republican senator from MA "be seated" in congress so he could vote on the health care bill.

It's true that Obama and the democrats could have "rammed" the bill through BEFORE the new senator took office because the democrats had the magic 60 seat majority - but they DIDN'T. (By the way, this is a distinct difference between democrats and republicans - because when Bush and the republicans were in control THEY "rammed" bills through and BLOCKED democrats from voting a RECORD number of times).

The bottomline is, the democrats practiced DEMOCRACY, and put the bill to a full vote. EVERY republican and democrat got to vote on it (which is the way democracy's SUPPOSED to work).

In the end, the majority of voters approved the bill - it's NOT socialism, it's NOT facisism, it IS democracy in action!

And PS - how many republicans do you know that would be willing to give up their social security or medicare checks? (The republicans voted against those bills too, by the way).

and yet Dems have already exempted themselves from their own bill, did they do that for Social Security and Medicare as well?

Rick the democrats didn't practice democracy. If that were the case the bill would have never been passed given that the majority oppose the bill. What they practiced is the politics of a social agenda. The republicans are equally guilty of this practice, but that doesn't give the democrats a freebie for perhaps the worst bill in our history. Now if you want real democracy in action Rick, it would be the citizens of the United States calling for a constitutional convention, which we sorely need. We know only get to choose the fiscally irresponsible party, the republicans, the the fiscally disastrous party, the democrats.

k2000k, I'm going to explain this to you one more time. Please pay attention. When you speak of a majority I assume you would be referring to the poll numbers of citizens. Well, those citizens voted (and those who didn't had the chance and chose not to for whatever reason) in 2006 and in 2008. The MAJORITY of said citizens put the president and the house and senate in office giving them MAJORITY numbers. So yes, the house and senate had MAJORITY numbers when they passed this bill. Do you understand that? All of those out rabidly citing the constution and such, how about you man up and tell it like it really is. You want to cite the constitution and blather on about the founding fathers but what you really want is for the US to go against the current form of govt and when something doesn't suit you you want to go around what the founding fathers set up and do it your way.

Election have consequences. Obama ran on healthcare-reform...he delivered. Take your poll and shove it.

Think again, bbagot. Now that the truth about the bill is finally coming out, people like it. Look at the latest polls. I guess that shoots down your argument. Don't worry. You'll come up with another excuse.

Well you failed to get it straight...so lets start there. The Democrats used a well worn and fairly often used procedure (used 3 times as often by Republicans) to approve a bill that had already been passed. If you were born here, you might remember the cartoon song "I am only a bill, on capital hill". Even small children understand there are several procedures a bill must go through for passage. Everyone in the GOP knows this, but they also know that their base is so uneducated about our governmental processes that you can say anything (obviously) and they will suck it up.

No throat ramming occurred. In point of fact the Democrats wasted almost an entire year to try to get the Republicans on board. They went way beyond the call of duty to try to get a bi-partisen bill put together. The democrats could have passed this legisation 8 months ago. However, the republicans had an mission...targeting the President; and that mission is to kill every single one of his agenda items at any and all cost. That is not spin, that is history.

Anyone with the slightest amount of political knowledge knows that reconciliation was never intended and has never been used on something as far-reaching as this bill. Of course it's been used, otherwise it wouldn't exist, it has never been used like this, that is history, the history of what used to be a democracy.

Oddly enough your quote "reconciliation was never intended and has never been used on something as far-reaching as this" is a direct conservative talking point quote. Do you actually understand what reconciliation is? When it gets used and why? The answer is in the word itself. This is not a method for skirting anything except the alternative "filibuster" tactics which are so common now within the GOP, it is in fact their use that is unprecedented in the history of capital hill. So why do I bring up "reconciliation" in the same conversation as "filibuster"?

"Reconciliation is a legislative process of the United States Senate intended to allow consideration of a contentious budget bill without the threat of filibuster.^"

So in fact, with the threat of Filibuster, reconciliation is an acceptable and documented counter measure...not some backdoor trick. Stop parroting conservative talking points, use BING to actually do a bit of research and join the rest of the informed populous.

pjam09, you know what really gets old? Seeing Republicans complain when Democrats do the same thing Republicans do and then when this hypocrisy is pointed out to a Republican, they always make up some excuse about how it's different when the Democrats do it. No matter what the situation, it's okay when the Republicans do something, but not okay when the Democrats do it. The Republicans are quickly becoming as irrelevant as the dinosaurs. Thank God.

"consideration of a contentious budget bill"

You actually believe mandating the purchase of healthcare insurance otherwise facing "penalties" is a "contentious budget bill"?

Even Harry Reid was against using it until it became clear it was the only remaining possibility.

Ginchinchili,

last I checked the majority of Americans still hate this bill. And to preempt the Rasmussen is nothing more than a conservative mouthpiece I invite you to look for the accolades it has received from a prominent democrat, former president bill clinton

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot

k2000k

News Flash!

CNN/Gallup poll taken after passage of the HCR bill 02/22/2010 shows: 49% approve, 40% disapprove, and 11% not sure whan asked if passing the HCR bill was a good thing for Americans.

True, very sad, tim.

But that's how they've won elections for the last 40 years, so who's fault is it really?

That would be Theodore Roosevelt and NOT Teddie.

@Pjam09 anyone with the slightest amount of political knowledge knows that reconciliation wasn't used to pass the health-care bill. The Senate's version of the healthcare bill passed with a 60 vote supermajority.... the house passed the Senate version (intact). Obama has now sign that Bill into law.

the reconcilation aspect, which is yet to come, will only address fixing a few "unsightly" brain farts.

no Tyrone - you are doing that all on your own

Very ignorant, but at least you tried. However, my ten year old grandson could have done better. disgusted, you're disgusting.

Great post, TyroneE! However, these people have been whipped into such a frenzy, that simple logic and good sense has no effect on them any more. They are stuck in a huge snowball that is rolling toward self-destruction.

Some rather be Far Right than Free.

Thugs have turned the Republican Party into a group of people who had rather use knee-jerk reactions and bullying tactics than thoughtful, knowledgeable, and mature discourse.

The fact that the Far Right has taken over the Republican Party shows how far off track the GOP had become anyway.

Rather than repair the Party after Bush/Cheney, Republicans have sold their souls, saying anything to get elected and blaming everyone but themselves; they refuse to accept responsibility for their actions and are finishing the Party off, trying to take the whole country with them.

As an Unaffiliated Voter, I will never vote Republican again - they have completely ruined the Party!
As an American, I am concerned that they are doing what the terrorists could not.

Amen. I am now an ex-Republican. Won't ever go back.

We are very pleased to know that we make you sick. May it become critical and take you away from us. Just kidding.

Obviously concernedcitizen12 favors illegal immigration, because if all americans get a better job with health care benefits, then only the poorest most dispossessd will take the jobs without benefits.

I worked and the insurance became too expensive for my employer to cover us. He worried about having to drop his employees so much that it made him sick. Later, his insurance company dropped his individual coverage while he was sick! It has nothing to do with being entitled! You have been sold a bill of rancid goods! You have been very lucky and are even luckier now that you can complain and whine, attack others, and never have to worry about having your coverage pulled out from under you when you are sick or priced more than you can afford.

Not everyone has the same luck, the same abilities. Let's see, where did I learn to care for those less fortunate than me? Oh yeah! The Bible! I think his name was Jesus...or was it John or Bill? Nah, it so-happened to be Jesus, but I have read it as a basic belief in ALL faiths! Maybe it is time to practice whatever faith we have instead of "religion" anyway. Religion gone amuck mixed with political confusion produces violence - terrorists. When you hate, you become hate, destructive...just like when you have love in your heart, it shines thru and works in productive ways. True believers walk the way they talk; your walk proves your heart. Live with it.

The USA has always had Health Care.

health care is not a right in America. Well, there you go. All you unemployed folks, all you folks that can afford it, all you folks that got sick and are now uninsurable. It's your fault and you aren't entitled to medical coverage. So go die and leave all these great Americans alone. Vote Republican and they'll show you all the other things you aren't entitled to.

Very well put, conatv!

Well put conatv. I find it amusing when people scream socialization when there is medicare(that you have to pay for) Social Security(that we all pay for) there are more but we are intelligent people and can see this argument.

Tell me whom pays these politicians their paycheck and their FREE healthcare? we do. If it is not good enough for us then it damn well should not be good enough for them. They need to pay for their own insurance and of course they will just raise their pay to compensate.

Where did you get your education? All were Bi-partisan and Civil Rights were soley a Rep issue well into Nixon that was also mainly Bi-partisan at the vote. Also so you'll know LBJ signed into law equal rights for women, Nixon did it for minorities.

Heck the Dems still have a no vote on civil rights issues in senator Byrd.

I am amazed at the sheer ignorance of some posters when discussing civil rights, SS, and Medicare/Medicaid.

My God they taught that in elementary school when I was a kid.

Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Eisenhower covered Civil Rights a long time before his brother Bobby talked JFK into doing something, and that was against his beliefs.

Theodore Roosevelt = National Park System; National Bird Preserve; Anti Monopoly Act; Meat Inspection Act of 1906; The Pure Food and Drug Act; Gentlemen's Agreement (this law banned all school segregation); the creation of 150 National Forests, 5 national parks, and 18 national monuments, among other works of conservation. In total, TR was instrumental in the conservation of approximately 230 million acres of American soil among various parks and other federal projects.

Eisenhower = Department of Health, Education and Welfare; School Lunch Program; Interstate Highway Program; ended the Korean Conflict started by Truman; Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960 (they constituted the first significant civil rights acts since the Civil Rights Act of 1875, signed by President Ulysses S. Grant – a Republican). The "Little Rock Nine" incident of 1957 involved the refusal by Arkansas to honor a Federal court order to integrate the schools. Under Executive Order 10730, Eisenhower placed the Arkansas National Guard under Federal control and sent Army troops to escort nine black students into Little Rock Central High School, an all-white public school. The integration did not occur without violence. Eisenhower and Arkansas governor Orval Faubus ( a Democrat) engaged in tense arguments.

Nixon = EPA; Clean Water Act; started the end of the Cold War and was completed by Bush 41; and ended the USA’s involvement in Viet Nam (LBJ’s War). In 1969, he had presented the only balanced budget between 1961 and 1998; Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA); the Council on Environmental Quality; the Clean Air Act was noted as one of the most significant pieces of environmental legislation ever signed; Consumer Product Safety Commission; Legacy of Parks; Comprehensive Child Development Act; implemented the Philadelphia Plan - the first significant federal affirmative action program (1970); and Equal Rights Amendmen.

These are just a few of the Acts of Legislation proposed and enacted by some Republican Presidents. I could easily list much more.

Perhaps you need to open your mind a bit more.

Keith Lane:

Your attempt to rewrite history fails since everything I listed is in the history books.

The Republican Party was created in 1854 (Ripon, Wisconsin, by anti-slavery expansion activists and modernizers). Abe Lincoln was the first Republican President in 1860. Are you starting he was against civic rights?

Are you stating that the party of Rev. Martin Luther King, senior and junior, is against civil rights?

One more thing, I think you mean the War Between the States.

Martin Luther King was NOT a member of ANY political party Republican or Democrat. Call the King Center and they will tell you that he felt that his giving credibility to either party would lessen the impact of the Civil Rights movement as BOTH parties had politicians who were against equal rights for all Americans.

The King Center's phone number can be found on the internet.

Your revisionist history aside , try reading my earlier post about the Dixiecrats and maybe you will understand the true history of the GOP after WWII regarding race relations.

Time and time again , many a Republican has posted the lie that Dr. King was a Republican , yet NO voter's registration has ever been found signed by Dr. King which showed he aligned himself with either party , nor has the GOP ever produced anything which would show his membership. This is all Republican MYTH in order to attempt to lure uneducated blacks to their party so that they can later disenfranchise them.

NO black person believes this rhetoric and is the reason some 94% ARE Democrats or vote Democratic.

FACT , Blacks in the Senate who are Republican 0 , Blacks in Congress who are Republican 0.

Blacks in the Seante who are Democrats. 1 , Blacks in Congress who are Democrats 44.

If the GOP was an equal opportunity party , they would work to increase this disparity.

I do know it was Bush and Cronies who started a war using lies but I wouldn't call that an acchievement with over 4000+ killed (for a lie) and thousands maimed but anybody remember when Cheney was in a secret location (the Batcave) for eight years and now he pops up like a praire dog shooting off his mouth! Even Eisenhower wouldn't have gone into Iraq, he would stayed on Bin Laden till he had him by his throat! Bush did sound tough "wanted dead or alive", he obviously saw waaaay too many westerns......LOL

It's hard to believe repubs have any interest in Civil Rights, when we vote for a half black man, your pals are parading up and down streets with posters of OUR President in degrading appearance just because they don't support his efforts! Wasn't it this time in Bush's first year that he took off three months, WOW Obama's done more in one year than Bush did in eight..............I don't count starting ill advised wars as an acchievment

The pendulum will swing far the other way - still no middle ground.