I like the bill as well, but i think they could make an even better law. If you are not a citizen and you have a baby in the USA your child will not automatically become an American. That will cut down on the size of the class rooms and welfare cost. See then they can’t stay they have to go back.

PASS IT! Then tell the Feds you're just doing the proper thing.

Right on golfmanj!!!!

So Arizona is doing the right thing going after "illegals" by ignoring the constitution?

The constitution clearly leaves national defense and immigration in the hands of the federal government, not the states.

Arizona wants to go against the law of the land to go after those breaking the law.

this guy530--Explain

this_guy---- Well you know what, the federal government isnt stopping these people from sneaking into our country. so just by the fact that they are doing nothing to bring down the number of illegal aliens in the country are they not as well going against the law of the land?

So its okay for the federal government to not follow the constitution but it isnt okay for the states to do it?

Yes, Arizona is doing the right thing. The fed may make the call on immigration. Legal immigration. But illegal immigration is "illegal". Laws are being broken. Why should anyone be allowed to break the law. The state has the right to pass this law. Obama didn't call the law unconstitutional, and as a Constitutional Scholar and one who spent his life learning how to skirt the Constitution, if it were unconstitutional he would have said so, don't you think? He just doesn't like his pool of voters being chased back to thier real homes.

As far a profiling, if the police are notified that a person described as Mexican, is/has broken a law, and the police are looking for said suspect, it would stand to reason they would look for a person fitting that description, don't you think? Or should they pull over a token white granny or two to be PC?

The Feds again trying to push around the states. 10th amendment people!!!! Obama says he is a lawyer, read the law and Constitution then.

Besides, is Obama actually dumb enough to tell a State that, yes, theres a law, yes, these people are breaking that law, but don't do anything about it, let them be? Imagine if he came out and said that, the next rancher killed, American robbed, etc, by an illegal, he would be complicit.

Obama, Has just showed us whos side hes on. the illegals.

You nitwits this country was founded by immigrants to bad native Americans couldn't in-act this type of law when people were fleeing from the English government maybe more of them will still be alive today.

1. How does this bill "ignore" the constitution?

2. If you are an illegal alien, haven't you ignored our laws already?

3. Does this bill give officers the right to request documentation on anyone at anytime, or do they only have this capabillity during normal traffic stops or other violations?

hakstarr....you are right...the American Indians migrated here. Humans are not indigenous to the Americas. They're not more "native" than anyone else born here.

You are confusing immigrants with illegal aliens. Perhaps you're just confused.

Obama's criticism of the law has nothing to do with the enforcement of immigration law and everything to do with the racial profiling that will be inherent in this bill.

The law requires police to question anyone they suspect might be illegal for identification. If you don't think this will lead to the harassment of legal immigrants of mexican and latino descent, you are a moron.

By all means, enforce immigration laws (hopefully by fining the employers who hire these people) but please do so without blatant racism and profiling of all latino americans.

As I said above...

"Papers please!"

Maybe Obama should focus on governing at the federal level and not the state level...

Yah hakstarr I think you are confused (Illegals and immigrants are 2 different apples..) I am a immigrant who became a naturalized citizen. I came here legally and had to spend 5 years of my life going to downtown LA naturalization building 8) I had to learn to speak English cause I didn't speak any when I came here. I married a Mexican lady who is legal I guess that makes me a racist towards Mexicans..

Amen!! They shouldn't be allowed to protest either since they are illegal. Wonder what would happen to AMERICANS if they protested another country's law. HA! Most likely would be in prison for life. I WISH EVERY STATE IN THE US WOULD PASS THIS LAW. The reason Obama is fussing is because his aunt would probably be sent home! Good Comment and Article. We AMERICANS are going to have to take back our country and rights.

Obama warned that failure to act at a federal level to pass comprehensive immigration reform would only open the floodgates to irresponsible and overreaching measures on the state level, referring directly to "efforts in Arizona."

Very interesting statement. Are we being told that state legislators are idiots and congress needs to be the example of reasonable politics?

hakstarr, are you just stupid or is your iq under 1? This country was started by legal immigrants who formed a constitution and bill of rights. The illegal aliens from south of the border are nothing but criminals crossing into this country illegally. Go educate yourself so you don't look so naive.

We will now see illegals protesting for their "rights".

illegal = no rights

hakstarr, are you just stupid or is your iq under 1? This country was started by legal immigrants who formed a constitution and bill of rights.

Did you really just say "This country was started by legal immigrants" while simultaneously bashing someone for having an "iq under 1."

???

Oh the irony...

I'm going to e-mail my State Rep and Senator here in GA to propose the same legislation. Per one poster's remark about not allowing anchor babies, I'll have them put that in there too. Thanks AZ!!!!

we dont have an illegal immigrant problem.
WE have a ignorance problem.

yall are targeting the wrong people.

It is exceptionally rare for those who employ illegal immigrants to face any kind of criminal prosecution, let alone jail time. Earlier this week, for example, immigration raids on six meat-packing plants netted almost 1,300 suspected illegal workers. But no charges were leveled against the company that runs the plants: Swift.

yeha your .... soooooo tired.. well these people are starving. They come here for jobs to support your family. AND TELL ME>> TELL ME RIGHT NOW.. LET SAY AMERICA COLLAPSED AND YOUR FAMILY WAS STARVING.. WOULD YOU GO INTO A COUNTRY WHERE MOST PEOPLE HATE YOU.. AND WHERE YOU DONT KNOW THE LANGUAGE, TO GET A JOB TO FEED YOUR FAMILY? Sure as @!$%# you would.

The Point is you can not fight desperation. If corps are actively seaking out illegals cause they dont have to worry about out labor laws when they hire them and because they work cheap.. WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE THEM.. THEY ARE A COMMODITY.. THIS IS CAPITALIZM.. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A @!$%# LOAD OF THEM.. THEY ARE IN HIGH DEMAND.

Teh point is to not make the illegal, illegal.. that will do absolutely nothing but let shaperio harrass legal us citizens who happen to speak spanish(and PS if you want to piss them off, just remember they are the fastest growing demigraphic and oen day you might have to deal with sheriff pedro.. who hates whites as much as shaperio hates mexicans)

I get so sick of dealing with the facists sheep, who scream their little fascist bigoted talking points.. when the real problem is the fascists that hire these people so that they dont have to hire americans.. wink wink nudge nudge we wont fine ya but we will deport a few and keep that populous anger going.

Right On Golfman. It is about time this country starts to stop being PC and PC for who? I too am tired of illegal immigrants having more social services than Americans. I can only hope CA gets the balls to follow. Somehow I doubt which is why CA is screwed.

Biochip implants are being discussed already. Senators Chuck Schumer (D) NY and Senator Lindsey Graham (R) SC have already had meeting (s) with Obama to discuss this biochip technology implant so everyone will be on a level playing field and we will know who is illegal or not. (See these Senators web sites on this) This story is just the impetus Obama needs to take this step and make this move to intrude (completely control) all US citizens and illegals. Yes this is about his voting block as well as the census. Their real plan I assume is to have everyone who comes to vote by 2012 to have to have this thing implanted or they don't get to vote.

The bible warns of this happening and folks we haven't been too smart in this country to ignore God especially in this past few years. This is your freedom and your rights going out the door. What sounds good will end up being the biggest component for evil ever devised.

What would BO and his Chicago Gang do?

Ram it through and pass it while no one is paying attention during the middle of night. Afterward jet across the nation explaining to the double digit IQ that it's in their best interest because they're to stupid to know otherwise. In return they kiss his @$$ and vote for more petroleum jelly. AZ you need to learn from the BO Administration.

"Illegal is illegal," said Pearce, a driving force on the issue in Arizona. "We'll have less crime. We'll have lower taxes. We'll have safer neighborhoods. We'll have shorter lines in the emergency rooms. We'll have smaller classrooms."

Of course, the Federal Government will shop for a Federal Judge to declare the bill unconstitutional because it's a Federal responsibility, even though the Federal Government has decided not to enforce immigration laws.

This should provide a good constitutional case for the Supreme Court, where it will ultimately end up.

Question - Why are the police not allowed to ask about immigration status when stopping ANY person for a crime?????????????????????

I agree with you "Golfman", how in the world can this law be unconstitutional when they are not citizens? Obama ought to just shut up his big FAT mouth and work on jobs for people. Maybe he ought to take his family and live along the border where they are inundated with drug trafficking murdering thugs! You know what Obama wants, he'll make them legal so they'll vote for him, that's not rocket science. Can't wait until he's out of office, along with Haggie Pelosi, Gay Cabalero Fwanks, Boxer, Reid, etc., its time for all of them to go if we're going to survive. I can't even stand to hear his arrogant, self-absorbed LOUD rants!

Despite disagreement from opponents of this bill, this state law will protect Arizona citizens from illegal immigrants, where in one case a Arizona citizen was murdered by a person(s) who was trafficing illegals. The federal gov't has limited power in dictating the state in it's legislation and neither due individuals or groups outside of Arizona...

When we refer to illegal aliens, people seem to forget the adjective used to indentify these people. "Illegal"...Buy definition it would dictate that it is already against the law to be in this country, the only difference is Arizona is passing a law to address these illegals. Arizona is not saying immigrants are not welcome...They can follow the same immigration as any other immigrant entering the US for any other country other than Mexico...

So, anyone who looks like an illegal can be stopped and asked to present papers?

I believe this is what the Nazis did during WWII. Yeah, great idea Arizona!

No thanks.

This is state law, not the federal government's issue. These people aren't US citizens and aren't protected by the Constitution. It isn't racist to say that they should come over legally. My sister-in-law is Mexican and I love her to death. Her family is here legally and went through the proper steps. That's the way it should be. The state of Arizona and the bordering states are the ones affected the most by illegal immigration. Don't you know that people are killed and homes are looted down near the border. They aren't all "fruit pickers" as some believe. Some are criminals and others are smugglers. This is a real problem. Also, how do they work in the US? Under the table. Without paying their fair share into the tax system. Instead they leach off it. They come over and get hurt, they get free health care. They come over and have a child, they get free federal and state money. Something is definitely wrong here. Going back to my sister-in-law she worked for the Social Services department out in California and the waste that goes through is unbelieveable. Just another reason why our country is so far in the hole that the light has vanished. Obama doesn't understand. This isn't about compassion, this is about justice and legality. This is about state powers and the duty to protect themselves.

Kudos to Arizona for finally doing something about all this illegal crap. I find it interesting that most LEGAL immigrants, like some of the people above here, support Arizona efforts. They have walked the walk, and should be congratulated for their hard work and persistence. .

NBC did a report on this today- said that police would be able to stop illegal immigrants that "weren't guilty of any OTHER crime". SO- they ARE breaking the law? You bet.

I do not understand why the libs in this country think it is such a great thing to break the law and that it should be allowed. I guess the laws apply to everyone BUT the illegal breaking them.

Try that in Mexico and see what happens. Sneak across the border, INSIST that they speak English, and apply for welfare. Have fun in jail. Actually, try that in any other country in the world. Have fun in THEIR jails.

".....Obama called the legislation "misguided" and warned that it could "threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans."

I always thought that the Constitution gave us equal rights under the law. (Yeah, I know....I'm not that naive....rich, either.....) I didn't know you had to be here illegally to be exempt from the law.

What is FAIR to me is that the people who should not be here should be deported. Not jailed- that would be three squares a day for them at our expense. Deported.

According to the US Supreme Court the states are within their rights to pass legislation to curb illegal immigration...

In what is the strongest statement on this issue, the U.S. Supreme Court noted:

Although the State has no direct interest in controlling entry into this country, that inter­est being one reserved by the Constitution to the Federal Government, unchecked unlawful migration might impair the State's economy generally, or the State's ability to provide some important service. Despite the exclusive fed­eral control of this Nation's borders, we cannot conclude that the States are without power to deter the influx of persons entering the United States against federal law, and whose numbers might have a discernible impact on traditional state concerns.[16]

State and local governments have wide latitude to enact laws concerning traditional issues within their jurisdictions.

http://www.speroforum.com/a/20275/Americans-applying-for-illegal-immigrants-jobs

Oboner is just afraid of being caught and deported himself.

I hope all you OBAMA SUPPORTERS are paying attention to this. The President is literally placing himself above the Constitution of the United States. Our Constitution is very clear on immigration to this country. Immigrants are to come here legally, become contributing members of society and within five (5) years take the oath of citizenship.

Forget about being politically correct to Mexican Illegals or Illegals from any other part of the world, wrongfully entering this country. No matter how you try to justify the situation or put a political band aid on it; they are here illegally. THEY ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS, THEY ARE ILLEGALS! Big difference! I'm not saying there aren't some contributing members of society in this group, but, you can't pick and choose which Constitutional Laws to obey and which to ignore, out of convenience.

If Illegals want to stay here;

(a) why haven't they registered as immigrants. (b) why do we have illegals living here over twenty years that have no intention of applying for residency or citizenship. (it is not America's job to support every illegal from every country around the world). (C) The majority of illegals don't pay taxes; and are a financial burden on our Social Security System, Welfare System, Educational System; Health Care System; and foremost, Legal System.

Has anyone considered the financial drain and clogged court calendars regarding illegals charged with everything from public drunkenness to 1st degree crimes. Those that aren't sent to prison (clogging up our justice system with their gangs); are deported; only to cross the border using another alias.

Not to mention the severe drain on our educational system. Granted every child has the right to an education; however, teaching an illegal child English then bringing them up to speed with the rest of the class is financially devastating for local school budgets. Plus, illegal parents aren't even required to shoulder any of the financial cost created from this situation. Like it or not, illegals don't have the same rights as a citizen; they are illegals and must assume some of these responsibilities because of their very action, as an illegal.

However, the real disgrace is to legal immigrants waiting for years to obtain American residency approval. These legitimate immigrants are denied entrance, primarily due to the over burdening costs created by illegals in this country. Our country has to restrict entry from other legitimate resident applications.

Some may say Illegals do the work Americans won't. Hog wash! Has anyone looked at the national unemployment percentages lately? Companies are moving their operations to Mexican and Asian towns; paying cents per hour, rather than paying legitimate American wages. Alternately, businesses in the U.S. are now filling Blue & White Collar jobs with Illegal workers, cutting wages in half and laying off experienced American workers. This also has a negative effect on the Illegal. These American businesses can work illegals 50-60 hours a week, with no worry about legal recourse. The Illegal can't complain to anyone, they would be deported. If you don't think this is happening; why don't you take a good look at the staffing at everything from fast food restaurants, to hospitals in every town.

No, bottom line folks, forget about Political Correctness! The Governor of Arizona is right. Every person in this country should be able to show citizenship (via legimate Drivers License or Birth Certificate), legal residency; or at the very least, legal work visa. If not, they are just a legal and financial burden and drain on our economy and need to go.

The final food for thought, is all the criminals crossing the borders as illegals. How can we protect our very families and selves, if there is no legitimate "Check and Balance"; or in place. (INS does a good job; however, the illegal immigrant problem is too much of a political "hot potato" for them to really address).

I say Kudos to the Governor of Arizona, other states should follow this policy. In my opinion, President Obama is letting his office go to his head... He is the President subject to the same constitutional laws and restraints as anyone else. Maybe it's time President Obama stopped trying to place himself above the law in this country. He is our elected President (for the time being); not our future Dictator......

The American people have a constitutionally protected RIGHT not to be invaded!

The elected politicians and PRESIDENT have a sworn duty to uphold that constitution and protect the citizens from invasion and foreign usurpation. Period. It doesn't matter that the illegals WANT to be here. Of course they do. That's too bad. It's not as though they are a people without a land, they HAVE a country of their very own with their own people, culture, language, heritage and IMMIGRATION LAW. They now want OURS TOO. Where do the Americans go when WE have no country of our own?

What's more, does anyone believe that the same hispanic groups that demand the entry of illegals would be as active if the tens of millions of illegals coming here were...say...Australian aboriginees?

ANY politician or PRESIDENT that works to benefit NON-CITIZENS at the cost of citizens, or helps illegal foreigners break or circumvent our laws is committing TREASON against this country and its constitution!! It has to stop, and those guilty of direct violation and those complicit must be TRIED, CONVICTED and SENTENCED for TREASON!

During remarks at a naturalization ceremony for members of the military, Obama called the legislation "misguided" and warned that it could "threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans."

How about some "fairness" for Americans? Illegals take, take, and take some more and do not contribute to the system. Illegals should no longer be considered "future voters" that will vote for anyone who made them legal. Now that we have lost so many jobs, the jobs left should be for Americans ONLY. The Federal govt. has been lax for too long. They are not enforcing the laws that exist and the states are suffering for that. The border states have the worst situation of all. My Aunt lives in Phoenix and is a prisoner of her apartment. It used to be a decent neighborhood until the illegals moved in. Why should we put up with this???!? Good for Arizona, the governor needs to sign that bill ASAP!!!

Please explain to me how Obama is criticizing a state for enacting a law against people who are here ILLEGALLY. Doesn't the fact that they are here ILLEGALLY already imply that they have broken a law?

Obama, please work on your Presidency - it isn't going so well. You no longer write the laws, you enforce them. You stopped being a senator in February of 2009.

Oh F- OFF Obama!!!

I am fed up with this and him. And he calls himself a Constitutional Lawyer when he does not even uphold the Constitution regarding ILLEGALS!!!!

Gov. Jan Brewer is nearing a deadline to act o n the measure. Civil rights activists have said the bill would lead to racial profiling and deter Hispanics from reporting crimes. Hundreds of Hispanics protested the legislation at the State Capitol complex on Thursday.

GO BREWER!!!!!!!!!! At least someone in this damn country is FINALLY taking the right stand that needed to be taken a long time ago.

So it would deter Hispanics from reporting crimes? Well @!$%# me they are NOT even reporting crimes, given the amount of illegals we have in the bloody country. So it won't deter a thing. I wonder how many of those Hispanics were even legal, those that protested.

machinehead...

I find your statement very interesting...Do you remember back during the Clinton years when Janet Reno brought in police to break into a home in Miami to get Elian Gonzales...And of course that famous pic with a policeman with M16 in hand and a poor little kid in a closet...

I find these arguments as cowardly...why don't we allow illegal Muslim terrorists to come into this country and enjoy our freedoms until they gear up to attack us...I know this sounds over the top, but when you think about it, to prevent it you will need to profile people to prevent it...

The states have autonomy, in this case Arizona, in the laws they pass to protect their citizens...you and I have no say

Inaction on the part of the Federal government has forced states to act. If the Federal government took action to prevent or punish people breaking the law, the states wouldn't have to.

President Obama, if you don't like what the states are doing, make the Federal government take care of the problem.

It amazes how ignorant people are of the United States Constitution. Search it… the word immigration is not in the document. Congress is given the power to “To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.” So they make rules about how to become a citizen (which affects voting and being able to run for federal office) but have no authority about immigration. The United States is a federation of STATES. A person coming into the country comes into a state. There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents Arizona from enacting its own laws for this. In fact, the 10^th amendment states; “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

Thanks to MoCowgirl for the court decision, but I think the view “that inter­est being one reserved by the Constitution to the Federal Government,” is reaching by the court, because as noted above, the document itself does not speak to immigration at all.

On the other hand, there are no laws that say I have to carry identification and I personally don’t want there to be. If I’m running or biking I probably don’t have ID on me. If I’m just walking down to the store to get a few items and pay with cash, I don’t have ID on me. Why should I? At the bank, I present my bank card, not a driver’s license or other ID, why should I? The only time I’m sure to have a drivers license with me is when I’m driving a vehicle, that’s what its for! If I’m not breaking the law, then leave me alone.

Right on golfman.

Why in hell would he slam this? Oh, its votes coming over, I forgot. You talk about "misguided," damn, Mr. President, I think you are, as usual, the one badly misguided. Ego won't let you see that.

The problem with this law is not what it does to undocumented aliens but the possibility of of abuse of this law toward citizens of color in this country. Also, a person cannot be "illegal" by definition, only an action.

IT'S ABOUT TIME. I hope that Arizona gets this bill passed. Illegal is illegal and the fact that "President" Obama doesn't seem to mind that they are in fact, ILLEGAL, should worry every single person who actually voted this guy into office. Why should they be living off of our tax dollars? What gives them any right? All of us Americans who were born and raised here have to work our asses off for every single thing we have and now on top of everything else, we're supporting ILLEGALs?! It's infuriating and I we're getting fed up with it. The federal government isn't doing @!$%# to help the situation so now Arizona is taking the matter into its own hands, as they should. GO ARIZONA! Now if only more states would step up and do something.

JoulesBeef

Are you threatening us to not piss off the illegal mexicians? Really. I wont be threaten by anyone! I total agree with business being the biggest problem in hiring them in the first place. They should be shut down if they do! And by the way, if you do not speak english you could not be a legal citizen it is a requirement as it should be! So that should be a first clue for a police officer, but I guess we cant hurt anyones feeling and require you speak our language in our country! sob sob!

An interesting fact about this whole issue is that 'the door does not swing both ways'. I would like to know what would happen if Mexico ever was asked to compensate for all of those benefits, which are really becoming an extremely big favor.

Why in hell would he slam this? Oh, its votes coming over, I forgot.

for the last F'ing time, illegals can't vote! Get a grip people.

Regarding Obama's reaction....I think he has to do it to save face with Luis Gutierrez...from my understanding, the DEMs were negotiating immigration with latino congressmen in order to get votes for the Healthcare Bill....

Just a thought

As if I needed yet another reason to despise Obama and the Democrats.....

Dear Mr. President, Democrats, and liberals.....you have lost your minds. If you think HCR was a messy fight just try to make legal, the illegals and see what happens.

This is not rocket science....

1. Secure the borders

2. Make it a felony to hire an illegal mandatory one year in jail

3. Deny ALL public assistance to illegals, and

4. Prohibit all who enter or remain illegally from EVER being able to apply for citizenship

If the Feds won't do it, its up to the states. Drive on AZ!

Obama is only pandering to the Hispanic vote, which his party will need in November and which he will personally need in 2012, should he be in a position to run again and not repeat LBJ's famous speech of 1968, which I predict that he will be forced to do within the next 2 years. What must be slammed is Obama's Democratic Party in November. Remember in November!

I think this can be fixed very easy. Round up all your illegals, give them a parachute that is unpacked. Give the illegal instructions that are written in English and a time limit of 1 hour to pack the parachute. Scurry all the little critters into a plane and drop them over Mexico.

The risk of being here is worth crossing a desert..okay cool..what ever

The risk of being here is maybe going to an american jail or deported..again what ever

The risk of being here is having your ass dropped out at 15,000 feet with a chute packed by yourself from instructions in a different language.. now thats AWESOME!!!

I love this bill and I hope it passes. Open up your eyes America, our tax dollars are paying for the rights our forefathers died for and now they insist we provide Spanish speaking teachers, etc. Watch National Geography channel, Discovery channel, etc and you will see people all over the world from the jungles in Africa to Chinese Villages speak english. Why do we have to learn Spanish language, this is an English speaking country. Our constitution was designed to cover OUR RIGHTS, and not the rights of Illegal aliens. Not only should they not be here but they should have no rights whatsoever. Go back home where they speak Spanish and let our tax dollars, which we work so hard for, be used to help the legal Americans who need our help.

The US Constitution give the Federal Gov't the power to control the border. Once you have crossed the border, you are the problem of the states.

The Feds. can limit or allow who comes in, but after they are in, they no longer have sole responsibility.

For instance: if an illegal killed someone, it is not a Federal only crime. Murder is also against state law. The state can arrest them. Their legal status does not trump that. Can you imagine if it didn't work that way? Can you imagine an illegal killing someone and then walk away from the local police because it's a Federal matter?

And it's not "racial" profiling. It's linguistic profiling, which is perferctly legal. If you can't speak English, you're probably illegal, but you could be from many countries, and of many different races. There is no race called "portugese speaking", or "Farsi speaking", or "Spanish speaking."

It's not about the votes. Bare in mind no illegal immigrant has a sign on their forehead saying they are illegal. Therefore, this law would bring forth a lot of racial profiling law suits at state levels. It would be chaotic, trying to figure out who's illegal who's not.

THIS CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT RACIAL PROFILING... AND RACIAL PROFILING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Apparently I'm late to this party but this_guy530 is entirely wrong. This legislation is not unconstitutional and has no bearing on immigration concerns governed by the Federal government. The Arizona legislation doesn't require illegal immigrants to be deported, it simply says they're not welcome in their state. Again, has absolutely nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with residency, which, if they're benefitting from state funds, ie. medical care, education, etc. is perfectly within the powers of the states.

He [the President] warned that failure to act at a federal level to pass comprehensive immigration reform would only open the floodgates to irresponsible and overreaching measures on the state level, referring directly to "efforts in Arizona."

What a friggin joke !! Arizona is doing something our Federal Government has been reluctant to do in supporting law enforcement officals in doing their jobs and upholding current Immigration laws.

If AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS is passed by The Obama Administration and our Congressional Representatives, THIS WOULD BE "IRRESPONSIBLE AND OVERREACHING" !!! ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE JUST THAT, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They have broken the law and must be held accoutable for that.....NOT GIVEN ANY RIGHTS AS AMERICAN CITIZENS.

For our elected officials: If you do not understand the immigration law, this might help (if you can read and understand.....and that is highly questionable):

• http://definitions.uslegal.com/i/illegal-immigrant/?puslf=gl+defi+Illegal+Immigrant+Legal+Definition&gclid=CKGfwcLn1ZICFSIZHgodZB7-iQ

I highly suspect the President's comments came after his meeting with Senator Luis Gutierrez, who should be worried about Illinois instead of another State who is proceeding with ENFORCING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

AZ Grandma: Get off your lazy a$$ and mow your own darn lawn!

The states have a right to protect their borders. Illegals have no rights. The only fair thing needed, is a swift trip out of the US.

English should be required to become legal. If aliens do not teach english to children, it is child abuse.

If they started shooting on sight at border crossings, it would be fair. People invading, should be shot if seen. Thats how it works.

Grover, when he grants amnesty, as he and his cronies intend to, that's when they will have bought the votes. Don't patronize me.

Racism nothing...its economics and law. Concider the burden that would be lifted from legal Americans, the accessibly of social services and not to mention JOBS!!! for LEGAL TAX PAYERS, had we not this problem.

Mexico needs to fix their own problems for the betterment of their own people, but they won't. I'm sure mexican officials are happy to be rid of people who enter THIS country illegally.

We are at the brink folks, we can NOT put ourselves in the poor house to help others anymore. We MUST look to our own or we are surely doomed.

MANY other countries around the world make you prove you will not be a burden to their society before they even concider letting you immagrate, and if you're caught there illegally, they deport you...PERIOD, no one is slamming them for it, so why the h*ll are we?

Get rid of all the illegals and worry about the USA!!!!!!!! Stop giving them my hard earned money and benefits that I don't even have!!!!!!!

Grover, when he grants amnesty, as he and his cronies intend to, that's when they will have bought the votes.

you can see the future? Amnesty, if that is their goal (which it likely is not), will not pass anyway. For evidence, see this bill.

Don't patronize me.

don't say stupid @!$%#...

Here's an idea, they can simply move out of Arizona and crossover into CA...I'm sure their liberal populus would embrace these illegals...

Seems to be a ton of Constitutional Lawyers present on this discussion. Unfortunately most spouting "The Constitution" haven't read it. The words "Immigration" "Racial Profiling" etc are not to be found in the document.

Yes, the law is unfortunate in that it has to be passed at all. If the fed govt had done its job years ago American Citizens would not be killed by illegal immigrants today. Its unfair to the citizens that live along the border to do nothing.

Its also unrealistic to stop non-hispanics along the border because you suspect they are illegal. It is not racial profiling to check and make sure people inhabiting our country are here as legal residents.

Why in hell would he slam this? Oh, its votes coming over, I forgot.

for the last F'ing time, illegals can't vote! Get a grip people.

Exactly why BO wants Immigration Reform, legalize em and get more votes. It's easier to get vote from the less educated!

So you have swamp land to sell, where ya gonna go to the engineer or the dolt that just won the lottery?

LUGERP -

The vast majority of people in America who do not speak English are illegal. It is probable that if you don't speak any English you are illegal (probable cause to search).

Linguistic profiling is not illegal.

And is fully Constitutional.

Obama is simply making the observation that should be quite apparent to everyone: Some of the issues the Federal government is involved in are those that require uniformity across states. That is why he says the failure of the Federal government to pass adequate immigration laws is leading to states passing their own. He is not saying it is wrong for states to pass their own. He is saying it probably won't work, and he is right. If each state decided what its immigration laws were you would have a mumbo jumbo of different laws and finally a big mess. Immigration law needs to be uniform across states. That is why it was included as a federal government power in the Constitution. Even then the reality of what needed to be uniform across states was apparent. It should be even more so now.

Grover - for the last F'ing time, illegals can't vote! Get a grip people.

For the last f'ing time, if Obama and the Democrats pass amnesty legislation, they will be able to vote! By the way, how would that add to the health care overhaul that is already looking like it will fail!

Time for people to admit it - Obama still thinks he is a senator.

For the last f'ing time, if Obama and the Democrats pass amnesty legislation, they will be able to vote!

do you really think an amnesty bill will pass, if its even coming down the pipeline?

I hear so much about how Obama is going to grant amnesty, and he's coming to get your guns, yet I have seen absolutely no supporting evidence for either...

By the way, how would that add to the health care overhaul that is already looking like it will fail!

I could have told you it was going to fail. It had no cost control because it did not include single-payer and/or a public option. No surprises there...

"We'll have less crime. We'll have lower taxes. We'll have safer neighborhoods. We'll have shorter lines in the emergency rooms. We'll have smaller classrooms."

This statement is the most ignorant, asinine comment I've heard all week and is only complimented by you idiots who feel you have some right to run your mouth about the subject when you have no idea how we live in Arizona.

"We'll have less crime". No, if you want less crime then you impose harsher gun restrictions, you increase the penalty for committing crimes, you decrease the amount of people living at the poverty line, you don't profile people assuming that because Joe has darker skin then Steve he will commit a crime But sure, you're right, it will cut down on the crimes REPORTED out of fear. Why don't we just take everyone who commits a crime, black, white, brown, purple, red, or what have you, and send them out of the US. Because LEGAL Blacks, Whites, Mexicans, Latinos, Europeans, Indians, commit crimes too.

Sheriff Joe is a proven supporter of racial profiling, and until you've lived through immigration sweeps and been pulled over as a white woman because you had LEGAL Mexican friends in the car, you have no ground to make your accusations about MY state and how it should be run. You look at a group of Mexican people and tell me who is illegal and who isn't. You can't. There's no giant red sticker on an illegal's head. So the assumption is going to be that ANY Mexican is illegal.

What do you expect Mexican children to do now? They don't have driver licenses. Are they supposed to carry their Birth Certificate around with them when they go to the mall, or a convenience store, or walk around the city? Because if a person of law enforcement asks them for proof of their citizenship, and they can't prove it, they can be taken straight down to the jail. Whose going to pay for the therapy these children have to go through when they are forced to live in fear day in, and day out? It sure as hell isn't coming out of my tax payer money.

Illegals don't only work in businesses here in Arizona. So when other states try and follow in our footsteps and go after those who hire illegals, which of you are going to take a job working in a kitchen washing dishes? Which of you are going to take a job working construction when it's 115 degrees outside and 130 on the asphalt? And which of you are going to be taking the other jobs that we as Americans are "too good to do?" because it may not be considered as respectable as other positions? None of you.

Passing this bill is also going to impact the tourism economy in Arizona. A considerable amount of our tourism relies on Mexican tourists. Someone who is visiting isn't going to be able to prove their citizenship because they AREN'T a citizen and they will immediately be deported back to Mexico for taking a vacation?! Once again, that is called RACIAL PROFILING.

So congratulations Gov. Brewer. Not only are you digging Arizona into an even greater hole economically, but you've now convinced the nation and the world that we are nothing but racist bigots.

landspirit...

Let's be honest. This bill will help the state of AZ balance its budget. It will lower crime. At minimum an illegal person should be considered a terrorist suspect. I believe States have the right to protect themselvs against terrorism.

Oh wait..what is that you say? They are not here to do terrorism but rather just work...

It is now a federally passed law that illegals cannot work in the USA...so....they HAVE to be terrorists or up to no good.

And if people knew the law..if you are an immigrant and stopped for a citation..moving vehicle or any enforceable law...you MUST provide your alien status card. That is the first thing you learn in the police academy. This is not a "new law" they passed but rather a "hey look at us we are about to start throwing these wetbacks back across the Rio Grande" type of thing.

I say CUDOS to the state of Arizona.

this_guy530,

IMO the state is simply enforcing the law already set by the federal government. How is that unconstitutional? The lack of enforcement on illegal immigration has created a huge mess, one that is so bad that one of worse victims (a border state) is having to take action themselves to help clean it up.

I would like to argue that the fereral governments lack of enforcement of it's own illegal immigrants statutes strikes me as the greater wrong. Is the lack of enforcement a tacet action to avoid enforcing a law which the current administration disagrees with? If so, then this selective enforcement (which could be characterized as racial - pro Mexican) could be considered unconstitutional.

YES! Of course Obama is against it. Gee, wonder why he would be against a law that is against ILLEGALS!!??

If the federal government won't do it, then the States have to look out for their own interests. The States' budgets can't afford to pay for illegal aliens. Illegal aliens should not be in the Country. That's why they are called "illegal". Send them back home.

I applaud Arizona! Dealing with illegal immigration may be the federal government's responsibility but it is clear that the feds aren't doing their job and seem to find a multitude of reasons why. So the States that have the most serious illegal alien problems are taking it into their own hands. Yeah for them. I hope Texas does the same thing as Arizona.....

By the way, how would that add to the health care overhaul that is already looking like it will fail!

I could have told you it was going to fail. It had no cost control because it did not include single-payer and/or a public option. No surprises there...

DrowningGrover, hey genius, those aren't cost controls either and would only have made the problems we're going to face worse. Did you read the related article on MSNBC today?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36726295/

But the analysis also found that the law falls short of the president's twin goal of controlling runaway costs. It also warned that Medicare cuts may be unrealistic and unsustainable, driving about 15 percent of hospitals into the red and "possibly jeopardizing access" to care for seniors.

Cuts to Medicare will cause 15% of hospitals to operate at a loss and ultimately close. Add to that in order to make single payer/"public option" feasible the reimbursement rates would have to be even lower than Medicare's and you're left with no access for anyone, let alone seniors, because there's no where for people to go to receive medical care.

By the way, how would that add to the health care overhaul that is already looking like it will fail!

I could have told you it was going to fail. It had no cost control because it did not include single-payer and/or a public option. No surprises there...

DrowningGrover, hey genius, those aren't cost controls either and would only have made the problems we're going to face worse. Did you read the related article on MSNBC today?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36726295/

But the analysis also found that the law falls short of the president's twin goal of controlling runaway costs. It also warned that Medicare cuts may be unrealistic and unsustainable, driving about 15 percent of hospitals into the red and "possibly jeopardizing access" to care for seniors.

Cuts to Medicare will cause 15% of hospitals to operate at a loss and ultimately close. Add to that in order to make single payer/"public option" feasible the reimbursement rates would have to be even lower than Medicare's and you're left with no access for anyone, let alone seniors, because there's no where for people to go to receive medical care.

I think it should be a Federal Law that at least one parent should have to prove American citizenship for a child to get US Citizenship and there should be NO dual citizenship for a child born in our country. Illegal parents should have to get their own country's birth certificate for all their children.

In Ohio, you have to present two forms of identification as proof you are a legal citizen to get a driver's license.

NO AMNESTY. All states should pass the same requirements and illegal is ILLEGAL!! Deport them and their children and revoke the children's citizenship!

Once again, I am shocked by the ignorance displayed by some. I said ignorance, not stupidity. There's a difference. I have repeatedly read Beck and Limbaugh talking points being regurgitated as if they were fact. I strongly agree with ArizonaNative. If you don't live in Arizona you can't understand the impact. What about Texas? What about New Mexico? You will never see a law like this enacted in Texas because there are too many Hispanic Republicans. Same thing in Florida. The efforts to keep illegals out of this country has effectively kept many in that would have otherwise returned to their native lands. Mark, by the letter and spirit of the proposed law people visiting from other countries on vacation would be subject to arrest. Imagine that, traveling to Mesa to see a spring training baseball game and getting thrown in jail. Sound like fun to you?

NOTE TO obama. Some of us don't really care what you think. You are already bringing this country to its knees. Its disgusting. OUR RIGHTS are not everyone ELSE'S RIGHTS. Do you get it? We don't have to let every illegal alien have the rights that our own (pardon the pun) American Born Citizens hardly even get now. With illegal Mexicans now causing terror and murder and Muslims threatening us if we show a tv show...NEED I SAY MORE? ~Disgusted American. Cherokee.

Thank all of you who support this. I live in Arizona and you have absolutely no idea how bad it truly is. The law is the law - they are here illegally and our enforcement officials are doing the job that the people of this state VOTED for (over 70%), so Obama, don't tell this state anything is 'misguided' with regard to the will of the people of the great state of ARIZONA!! He is just looking for the votes which he has lost because of the health care fiasco.

Golfman- I agree with you all the way. Well put! But I also blame the voters who keep voting the Democrats in, because their the ones who support amnesty,illegal's. Obama does not care about the poor rancher either,because if he did he would pay respects to the poor family. Drugs,violence and gangs invading our streets from Mexico and even our poor children are not safe anymore. I have lived in AZ & I know how its like to live there. I wish the state of TX would do the same, enforce the laws like every other law on the books. I find the government a bunch of liars and hypocrites, and yet Obama keeps preeching to everyone but can't walk the walk. A typical corrupted politician thats what he is.!!!!!!!!

Grover - do you really think an amnesty bill will pass, if its even coming down the pipeline?

I hear so much about how Obama is going to grant amnesty, and he's coming to get your guns, yet I have seen absolutely no supporting evidence for either...

Slapping illegals on the wrist with a fine is amnesty as far as I'm concerned, and Obama has been proposing just that. Illegals should face deportation, shouldn't they? Basically, by paying a fee they will no longer be deported. They are avoiding REAL punishment for a period of time - a.k.a. amnesty.

I don't think that Obama is "coming for our guns" - and I didn't say it in my post. You can take that up with someone else.

I could have told you it was going to fail. It had no cost control because it did not include single-payer and/or a public option. No surprises there...

So...you want us to be like Greece?

BBYANKO - There is no guarantee that an Illegal killed the rancher. It would be just as easy for someone who was legal to kill him and cross the border into Mexico, escaping any responsibility.

This is exactly what state governments should be doing to protect their citizens, and their budgets. I am fairly certain that my state will follow suit in short order. The federal government is hopelessly and completely broken. Our only hope is to protect ourselves. With an estimated 22 million Mexicans in MY country illegally, it is not racial profiling - it is probability and statistics...

Don't like it? Get the hell out!

Speaking of "irresponsible and overreaching" legislation...

Why did MSNBC remove the "Report: Health overhaul will increase tab" from the top NEWS links this morning? First sentence:

"President Barack Obama's health care overhaul law will increase the nation's health care tab instead of bringing costs down, government economic forecasters concluded Thursday...

Obama's statement on Arizona's legislation, 'Such legislation could "threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans" could apply to healthcare legislation, too.

Here's the link in case you missed it http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36726295/

I get the feeling Obama suffers from some type of dyslexia, one that takes in information, processes it, then somehow puts it all backwards, so the proposed solution is always wrong. Its like when we see down, he sees up, when we see right, he sees left. This would explain why he continues to go against the grain on almost every issue of importance to Americans.

What Arizona is proposing may not be the perfect answer, its light years better than what Obama will ram up our collective colons. The key is to take the financial incentive out, both for illegals and the businesses who employ them. Hence no need to guard the borders.

Law enforcement in Arizona already harasses legal residents of Hispanic/Native american descent. Just on Wednesday a young commercial trucker, born in Fresno, Caslifornia, was arrested and put in chains at a Phoenix weigh station because law enforcement assumed he was not here legally. They did this even though he showed them his commercial driver's license and his Social Security Card. ICE officials called his wife, who was at work, to go home and get his birth certificate. She brought hers, too, because she feared arrest if she did not.

The MSNBC article contains a significant factual error. I live in the county where Robert Krentz was killed. The sheriff has stated that he believes Mr. Krentz was murdered by a scout for drug smugglers, not an undocumented immigrant.

THE IDEA OF ROUNDING UP 10-20 MILLION ILLEGALS AND DEPORTING THEM IS NOT FEASIBLE!!!

BUT, we can be more proactive.

When I think of this issue a line out of the movie "Taken" comes to mind,,,,

"You come to this country, take advantage of the system and think because we are tolerant that we are weak and helpless. Your arrogance offends me".

Expand and enforce our border patrol. Use the National Guard. This is becoming a national security issue. Use Federal money to fund this. If we have money for "turtle tunnels" and studies to see if "crystal meth increases the sex drive in rats",,,WE HAVE MONEY FOR INCREASED BORDER PATROLS!!! We are entitled to our Constitutional right to "provide for the common defence". This must be promoted and enforced as strictly as possible.

BUILD THE WALL!!! Mexico is one of the MOST unstable countries in the world and we must protect ourselves. Until Mexico can control its violence and corruption we have no option other than to DEFEND ourselves. IT IS OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT!!! We have spent over $780 MILLION DOLLARS on a worthless surveillance system that doesn't work, it's time to get serious. Besides, a construction project of this scope can easily be funded with all the available money floating around from TARP or the $TIMULU$. Not to mention the amount of jobs it will create for a few years.

Offer our CURRENT immigration process to all NON-CRIMINAL (defined as currently or in the past having no criminal record) illegals residing on our soil. All criminal illegals found are detained and deportation is to be completed in no less than 30 days. Any dependents of that CRIMINAL illegal will also be deported (this will create an air of responsibility to future immigrants and dependents to conform to our laws). Any nation NOT willing to accept their own citizen being deported shall have trade sanctions placed until they cooperate. If we approach this program seriously the other countries will take it more seriously and it will deter further attempts at illegaly entering our country.

Give all current illegals a 3 month moratorium to LEGALLY apply and begin the process of LEGAL immigration. Once the application process is begun they have 30 days to complete it or face deportation. It didn't take a year or two to accumulate all the illegals so it has to be done realistically to legalize them. We have very liberal immigration laws and requirements, they just need to be ENFORCED!!!!

Any illegals found to posess fraudulent ID will be charged as Identity Theft criminals, fined and deported. NO APPEAL, NO LEGAL RECOURSE, NO QUESTIONS ASKED!!! The ease of identity theft must be decreased and punished accordingly. Identity theft affects unwilling and unknowing LEGAL law abiding CITIZENS and creates massive bureaucratic problems for them and our countries safety.

BAN all new permanent and temporary visa's, except for diplomatic needs, for Mexico and all other offending countries. Declare that the ban will be lifted when 75% of the current illegals are processed AND approved (or deportation has been completed of offending individuals) and the remaining will be finished in 3 months. If not, reinstate the ban.

Once these issues are corrected and enforced our main concern will become the Constitutional maintenance and protection of our country and its borders. Only in this way will we be able to create an amicable and possible solution to our current crisis of ILLEGAL ALIENS.

Other possible options such as fines, fee's for application, and retribution with higher taxes or fees can also be implemented to discourage those that are here only for abuse of our system.

The Mexican Constitution

• in the country legally;

• have the means to sustain themselves economically;

• not destined to be burdens on society;

• of economic and social benefit to society;

• of good character and have no criminal records; and

• contributors to the general well-being of the nation.
  

The law also ensures that:

• immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;

• foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;

• foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country's internal politics;

• foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

• foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

• those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

• Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense.

northtosouth, where do you and people like you come up with this stuff?

by the letter and spirit of the proposed law people visiting from other countries on vacation would be subject to arrest. Imagine that, traveling to Mesa to see a spring training baseball game and getting thrown in jail.

Directly from the article:

President Barack Obama on Thursday criticized a pending Arizona law that would make it a state crime to be in the United States illegally and require anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant to produce identification.

People on vacation have arrived here legally and have gone through customs. They have the stamp to prove so on their passports. It's sad that states have to pass laws that it's illegal to be illegal! How asinine is that? Illegal is illegal, these people are criminals, plain and simple, it's cut and dry. If you want to be in this country then do so legally, like everyone else, otherwise get the hell out of here or suffer the consequences of being treated, rightfully, as a criminal. Anchor babies should be treated as "new arrivals" to the country and be forced to apply for citizenship which, as they're not of legal age, would require their parents to apply for citizenship as well, no more entitlements. You can do the same for actual American babies as well, although the legal process would be quite expedited for legitimate babies deserving citizenship with a legal mother and/or legal father = legal baby.

The only illegals I see are the white people that stole this entire country from the Native Americans (aka Mexicans) they're just coming back home.

I am an American who sees this as a Civil Rights issue, and that it should not be tolerated.

There are no fewer than four US states that share a boarder with Mexico, I was born in one (Texas) and raised in another (New Mexico), yet Arizona has the busiest crossing? Perhaps someone needs to look into why so many people are choosing to cross into the US there, and what sorts of incentives the businesses in Arizona are offering these folks, rather than penalizing anyone and everyone some cop feels "appears" to be illegal! If the drup gangs are wrecking havoc, then bring in federal reinforcements to help the police officer's fight that batter, rather than punishing everyone who "looks" or even better "dresses" a certain way!

Sorry, folks. If this law is allowed to stand the persecution will not end there, and I for one wonder who will be next! I stand beside the Arizona and Illinois Congressmen that are calling for a boycott of Arizona businesses, and would not even contemplate attending a conference in that state, or visiting there for any reason.

Again, this is a Civil Rights issues, and we need to stand together now, just as we did in the 50's and 60's, and shout "no way"!!!

" . . .a pending Arizona law that would make it a state crime to be in the United States illegally . . . "

Uhhh . . . am I the only one who noticed that we already have LEGAL immegration. If one is outside those parameters then the laws have been transgressed. Why do we need MORE laws? Why not simply enforce the ones we have.

I laud Arizona for trying to stem the tide of illegal immegration in their own way. Hope it works. The way I figure it we ought to bring home all the soldiers and let them practice their martial arts along the border. They could then learn to march and guard our border at the same time.

Sign the bill then tell Obama we have now done his job.

Native...I don't get you....I lived in AZ for most of my adult life before moving back to CT 13 years ago and I know it was overrun then, I can just imagine how bad it is now. You can't be serious about this affecting Mexican tourism? You seriously think it's okay for your tax dollars to pay for people here ILLEGALLY? In this country, we have elderly, abused children, battered women, abused animals, starving families etc. that I would much rather see my tax dollars help! Every American citizen is subject to being asked for proper ID by police if they are suspected to be doing something "illegal", how is this any different?

As for you AZ Grandma - every comment you make is collapsed by the community, get the hint yet???

Kudos to the State of AZ. Maybe I'll move back there one day now (if this law passes) at least I'll know someone is trying to keep an eye on my tax dollars and put it to better use than paying for people who are not in this country legally!

What part of this law do the bigots not get. Law reinforcement officers will be able to arrest you if you can not prove you were born in the US. That means everyone will have to carry their Birth Certificates or Green cards. Absolutely ridiculous!

If you really want to impact illegal immigration crack down on employers with massive fines make it financially foolish to take the chance and they will spend the money to hire American workers!

PAPERS!

It is time for the US to come up with a comprehensive Legal Immigration policy that addresses the population of workers that come up from Mexico on a daily basis. Mexico is the only country we do not currently have a stable immigration policy with, and that is going to have to change.

John McCain backed just such a plan, before he found his hind quarters in a sling. How about we all get real "maveriky" and follow through!

The Constitution gives some powers to the Federal Gov't that it CAN exercise.

But in other cases it spells out power that it MUST exercise.

Such as:

Article 4 Section 4 "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion"

20-25 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE INVADED OUR COUNTRY.

The Federal Gov't has defaulted on its obligation to uphold the US Constitution.

Voice of Reason - I travel to and from Mexico all the time, never once has my passport been stamped. And when you cross the border via car, there is no one standing there with a stamp in their hand. It's the same reason my passport has never been stamped going into Canada either.

this_guy530 If the Federal Government and Obama forced the immigration laws that are on the books, Ariz. would not have to pass their own law. Three Cheers for Ariz.

Tammy - I agree with the fact that yes, something should be done. But the way this law goes about it is just unreasonable.

Great, now I want to see all of yours' papers. Don't have any? Get out of my country. You can tell me you were born here all you want, but I don't believe you.

This is the most racist official law since slavery.

There are sooooo many misconceptions about "illegal immigrants". They are falling victim to that same ole hateful hyperbole and rhetoric to spread misinformation to cause confusion, fear and panic. The majority of these folks are good, productive people working the worst jobs for the worst pay and are paying the same taxes as everyone else. Even Social Security tax that they will never reap the benefit of. Wow - this legislation is really bringing out the ugly in people.

Arizona Naive,

"Passing this bill is also going to impact the tourism economy in Arizona. A considerable amount of our tourism relies on Mexican tourists."

Mexican tourists eh? Is that you Noam? What was spending is now "investment". What were taxes are now "Revenue". What were illegal aliens are now "Mexican tourists." Awesome!!!!

"Obama, Has just showed us whos side hes on. the illegals." And the Muslims and the rest of the world. One would think he was Anti-American! Just sayin'!

Arizona Native...IMO your state is taking the right approach in protecting its citizens...screw those critics who don't reside in your state...It's within your rights to pass this legislation....I

'this is a Civil Rights issues, and we need to stand together now, just as we did in the 50's and 60's, and shout "no way"!!! Not a civil rights issue! The ILLEGALS have no CIVIL RIGHTS!! In the '50's and '60's it was about the American citizens who happened to be black. They had committed no crime. The ILLEGALS have committed a crime by breaking into our country. If someone broke into your house and then lived off of your hard work, would you condone it? I've lived in California all my life, so I know what I'm talking about! Illegals and their anchor babies are all over. They don't even try to learn the language; they come here for the jobs (that Americans need) and the social handouts that they're given. GO ARIZONA!!

If you're going to insult someone Svenolafson, please be sure to understand what they are actually stating before looking like an imbecile.

No where in that sentence did it state that illegals were tourists. A tourist is very different from an illegal alien.

What you did was assume that by calling someone a Mexican, that they were referring to an illegal.

It seems to me that the problem is the deliberate reluctance of the federal government to enforce the law. It's already a crime to be in this country illegally. Illegal aliens are called illegal because they are here... illegally.

Why wouldn't the federal government enforce the laws of the land? Many illegals already enjoy all the services that state and federal governments have to offer and if the illegals become citizens sometime in the future, through some kind of immigration reform, well then they become twelve million voters... voters that mostly vote as a voting bloc for the Democrats.

"He warned that failure to act at a federal level to pass comprehensive immigration reform would only open the floodgates to irresponsible and overreaching measures on the state level, referring directly to "efforts in Arizona."

Here comes the fear tactics....too bad B.O. is so out of touch that he doesn't understand that state measures are what people want because of the failure to do anything about the problem at the Federal level.

Get ready for his attempt to ram this down our throats as soon as financial "reform" is pushed through.

"Insurers: Brace for fast and furious costs"

"The headline for everyone is that costs will be more. Cost will definitely go up," said Mark Bertolini, president of Aetna (AET, Fortune 500), which covers more than 19 million individuals under its plans.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/23/news/economy/health_reform_insurers_react/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin

Just wait until B.O. adds another 12 million illegals into the sytem.

It is a crime in Mexico, for Americans to be there illegally. Why then, should it not be a crime in America, for Mexicans to be here illegally?

Brian - re 2.91 - That sounded more like a description of a borderline personality-type! Add power-seeking, attention-getting, narcissistic behavior...hmmm. But everyone already knows we're in trouble! Democrats can't see the hurricane, because they are in the middle of it.

ctdad @!$%# that man we already have millions here 8p I can only wish Jan Brewer was our Governor instead we have a legislature that is completely off their rocker... I and millions of Californians can't wait for Nov 8) We are voting your asses out.

Well I knew things were going to get bad when I saw that the Mexicans have taken the grave diggers jobs. While it take three to do a jobe of two, it's cost effective since they work so cheap. Since they are illegal they can't complain. I think giving police more power is wrong. They have too much now. They catch illegals all the time but don't keep or move them out of here since it cost too much. As for paper, anyone needs to be identified. I travel anywhere else I have to have a passport so they know who I am, where I'm going and how long I can be expected to be there. What wrong with that. New laws are not needed. Just need to enforce the ones we have. When they are caught, they are found breaking not only the law of being here illega, but what they were caught doing wrong. If not the drugs and crimminal will just keep flowing in here.

I think they are targeting the wrong people. They need to focus on the drug lords that are here already. I wonder were all the illegal aliens come from? the moon? Can the Native Americans please stand up! Come election time all the politicians will be speaking Spanish again.

I say good for AZ....the same should be adopted by Texas, New Mexico, and California. Plus, I agree that using the guise of "shopping Visa", and then having babies here shouldn't automatically make them American citizens. All this has to stop, and our borders need to be secured. What makes this administration think that terrorists won't cross in via Mexico just because he doesn't think that'll happen. If I were a terrorists, that's exactly what I'd do.

Of course he would slam it - why should he start following the laws and constitution of this country now? Illegals are just that - illegal! Start paying taxes, not using our school and medical systems, quit using Arizona as your personal gang and kidnapping playground and quit bringing in drugs - then maybe we will relax a bit! Sheriff Joe for President!!!!!! BTW - Obama, when are you going to shut all of us up a prove you were born in USA?????

HAK - you are the nitwit; guess where most of the terrorists get their information, personnel and weapons in? MEXICO!

Our country was founded by good people and good immigrants, but guess what, the times have changed. You would get your butt kicked by immigrants of old if you compared them to the ones of today - plus there are laws; if you do not abide by them, then you are illegal. Remember - this is about ILLEGAL immigration not immigration. Moron.

President Barack Obama on Thursday criticized a pending Arizona law that would make it a state crime to be in the United States illegally and require anyone suspected of being an illegal immigrant to produce identification.

POTUS Obama there is an old saying you would do well to remember before making anymore statements like the one above: "It is often better to be silent and thought of as a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt." I admit to not knowing who first said this, but the shoe definitely fits here.

POTUS Obama did you ever happen to think in your liberal mind set, that if the federal government, (that for the last 16 plus months "YOU" not Bush or Clinton have been responsible for the actions of,) had been allowed to do their job and enforce the existing immigration laws, the individual states just might not feel the need to do your job for you. The answer is apparently NO! You have been more interested in spending our tax dollars on anything and everything except securing out borders and to top it all off you think we need immigration reform? We don't need immigration reform, we need our I.N.S. officials and Border Patrol to be allowed to do their jobs and enforce the existing laws. We do need the illegal immagrant criminals (YES THAT IS RIGHT! I SAID CRIMINALS FOR BEING IN THIS COUNTRY IS A CRIME) rounded up and sent back to their homeland. The only change we need to our immigration law is to be able to send back the kids under the age of 18 with their parents. To be fair if they have no juvenile criminal record (especially gang and or drug related) then grant them (not their illegal parents) citizenship on their 18th birthday if they choose to accept it.

The single easiest way to get illegals to leave this country is to stop giving them a free ride at the tax payer's expense and stop employers from hiring them. With no public assistance and no jobs they will get the hint and leave quickly. We saw an example of this in the down turn of our economy when many of them went back to their homeland because there were no jobs here.

I always knew Obama didn't have a clue how to do his job as POTUS now I know he is a fool as well. Anyone who would make a statement like he did in this article proves that point beyond a doubt. In the case of the illegal immigration problem, if he knew how to do his job and or was not afraid of offending the Hispanic/Latino voters, the state(s) would probably not feel the need to protect themselves and their respective people..... PERIOD....

I support it and want it to be a Federal law. Obama never knew what he was doing before he got elected in...look at what a wonderful place Chicago is. Obama should close his mouth and follow the leaders. Maybe he'll learn something. I want all illegals out of this country and I want the lazy bums on welfare to fill the jobs these people are illegally working.

It seems to me the phrase "illegal immigants" pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. Duh.... My ancestors were immigants, came right through Ellis Island and legally.

I am SO over all this "unfair to Latinos" stuff. Would it be unfair if the immigrants were Russian, or Chinese, or would their organizations not make such a fuss over something they know is illegal.

I work in medicine and see ALL the time the border crossers who are hurt, shot, injured, etc trying to ILLEGALLY enter this country. They are picked up by border patrol and if injured guess where they go? To a large local hospital in Arizona, get outstadning care, meds, surgery, rehab, etc. Who pays for this? We do. It happens over and over again.

I hope Arizona enacts this law. State's rights.... they are the ones dealing with all the fallout from the illegal immigration issue and having someone "suspicious" stopped to verify immigration status is not illegal. If I were weaving on the road, sidewalk, etc I could be stopped for probable cause. This isnt' about disliking one ethnic group over another, it's about doing something ILLEGAL.. period...

Arizona Nativ..."I travel to and from Mexico all the time, never once has my passport been stamped. And when you cross the border via car, there is no one standing there with a stamp in their hand. It's the same reason my passport has never been stamped going into Canada either."

You don't have your passport stamped because you are an American Citizen with an American Passport. It's up to the country you are entering to decide if they will stamp your passport. Mexico and Canada generally don't when entering from the U.S. However, if you were a Mexican citizen, entering the U.S. on a Mexican passport, you have to enter through a different line and you will have your passport stamped. My point being, you are wrong and there is a way to tell if a non-us citizen is here on a passport or visa.

Mexico has just passed a new jobs bill. The government is offering subsidies of 25% of the cost of paying a coyote to take them to the US to find work.

We do not need immigration reform, we need immigration ENFORCEMENT.

We really need a national ID card. If everyone had either a national ID card, a greencard, or passport on them, it would make it much easier to find the illegals. After all, we already have national SS numbers, which is our defacto national ID number. We might as well have a real ID card instead of a SS card.

Carol: Then, based on your comment, the governior is toast if she doesn't sign this bill, which is the way it should be. She either signs the bill or resigns as governor. She can't have it both ways.

RV: I disagree. Obama still thinks that he's a radical, extremist community organizer. Just look at what he's accomplished in Chicago. It's staggering. Mind-blowing.

To all the posters that are against this bill, think of this, if this were not the U.S. we would not even be having this debate. If this were France, England, anywhere else in the world free or not, You enter illegally, you get sent back and are guilty of a crime. In the U.S. you come here Illegally, We let you speak your language and we will even print our litarature in your language, we will give you free services, let your children born here become automatic Citizens which semi-legitimizes your status, We will forgive and allow amnesty if you stay long enough with no repricussions of your past deed. The U.S. would be doing a hell of a lot better if we remembered that English is our main language and if you come here Illegally you are guilty of a crime and should either be put in prison, sent back to where you came from and never allowed to enter the U.S. again for any reason. Of course I believe we should send all Illegal persons to San Clemente Island off of the California Coast and see how long they survive(for you who don't know what S.C. Island is , it is the military bombing range and practice range) I also believe we should resurect the old Star Wars hardware and plant it all along our borders except were legal crossing is allowed. If the knowledge that if they try to cross, they may be incinerated doesn't stop them, then there is not much that will persuade them from trying it. I have said my peace, but I will finish by saying I am not against immigration if done legally, I have a problem with those that come here illegally !!!! and that is what the true issue is Legal- vs - Illegal. One is right the other is plain and simple wrong.

We need this in Florida too. I have a legal Mexican immigrant that bought a house in my neighborhood and rented it out to 5 Mexican men that couldn't speak any English. My neighborhood has, in our bylaws, that our homes are single family homes. Two adults can live together, but must have no kids...also no married couples with another adult. I am almost positive these guys were illegal. How many legal Mexican immigrant males are single and can't speak any English. My association finally got them all kicked out, but now there is an illegal Haitian family living there. I knew a Brazilian couple that legally immigrated and when the husband wanted the childhood friend to move to the US, they got divorced and his wife married the friend to make him legal. These people take advantage of the US and it's citizens. It's a big game to them and we need laws that protect the people of this country and our interests.

They can start by collecting those jerks of the streets of Vegas that hand out titty bar ads, even if your kids or wife is walking with you.

Our area is small but even we have so many illegals that it not funny. I had a garage sale & about 12 Mexicans pilled out of that van & just surrounded us. They wanted to give 25 cents for any item. Only two spoke any English, they purchased a few items, but after they left we noticed that all the items that they looked at but did not buy was gone.

One of our Doctors takes Medicaid patients & every time you went to his office it was full of Mexicans with 3 or 4 children each. The Dr. changed his method of payment, he wanted the patients to pay their share of the bill upfront. The receptionist & I are friends & she said they had to changes because people would see the Dr. & then they would say that they had no money to pay their share of the bill. From the day they started the new rules the Mexican patients stooped coming in. They want everything but they want to pay nothing.

Pelosi said at one time that illegals were to be called undocumented Immigrants.

Calling an illegal alien an " undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."

Why in the World is no one at the Federal level doing nothing. The last time the Feds raided a business & rounded up about 50 illegals. Pelosi had a fit, she said that the Feds should start going after the Company's instead of the Illegals, because it was to traumatizing for the illegals. Good God is she crazy or what? Least we forget Pelosi's reasoning for not going after the illegals She owns several grape orchards & need the cheap labor. May be that is the reason.

I say go Arizona go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you STLMIke, you made my rebuttal to Arizona Native before I had the chance.

Additionally, no one, ok so maybe a lot of people, is saying these people absolutely cannot be in this country but do so through legal channels. I've said it before and I'll say it again, illegal is illegal. It's like walking into a grocery store and walking out with food. On the surface there's nothing wrong with that unless you walk out with food illegal by not paying for it. It's no different than being in this country, it's perfectly fine as long as you do it legally, otherwise you're a criminal and should be punished accordingly.

Go Arizona! Do it for yourselves; do it for the country and do it for States like my State of California that doesn't have the cajones to do anything about illegals bankrupting the State. We have to start somewhere. Obozo needs to 'stop talking' (as he's instructed us to do) and either enforce the law himself or step aside and let the States take the lead. He's an arrogant amateur!

DrowningGrover

Why in hell would he slam this? Oh, its votes coming over, I forgot.

for the last F'ing time, illegals can't vote! Get a grip people.

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• 23, 2010 12:34 PM EDT

Yes they can and do!!! They are not allowed to, but that never stopped them. All you need to vote is a drivers licence and most states provide them to illegals. so yes they can and do. I think it's a felony (Voter Fraud) but I'm not sure, if someone else knows for sure, please let us know. Thanks.

Gary Root:

No, the US should not have the same law just because a foreign country has the law. We should decide on our own laws and how they should be written to benefit and / or protect Americans and the people who are legally in the US.

If we don't think a lawmaker is doing a good job making the laws or the lawmaker is supporting laws we don't believe are good, then we vote in someone who we believe will do better. If the new lawmaker is still not doing what we want, then vote in someone else until we get the right person. Same for law enforcers that are voted upon. US Citizens thought they were doing that in 2008 but I think there a lot of second thoughts now.

This illustrates why it is so important to really examine who we're voting for and not get caught up in hype or rhetoric or media bias. That's going to be tough. We'll have do some work finding out because once a bad person gets in, he / she can wreak havoc for at least a couple years before a better person (hopefully) can be voted in. They can also enact bad laws that may take even longer to repeal or replace or repair. They can install judges who can create havoc for a lifetime.

Obama said he's instructed the Justice Department to examine the Arizona bill to see if it's legal,

That's a "tell" right there!

Since when does Obama give one $hit about the law?

Answer: When it conflicts with his socialist agenda! That's when!

I think the man should write his own constitution so we all know what to expect.........Or should we just reference the communist manifesto?

Arizona is doing the right thing..way to go !!!!!

If BO won't do it then the citizens should expect their state reps to protect them.

Yes! Talk about ignoring the Constitution! Obama is the King of ignorance and the ignorant!

I'm tired of my tax dollars being spent to defend the stupid and ignorant laws that my legislature passes in order to pander to uninformed and goose-stepping right-wing extremists. This bill will not only mean illegal immigrants will be profiled, but citizens - multi-generation - will also be targeted/profiled causing them emotional and financial harm. Not all Hispanics are illegal, but all Hispanics have a bulls-eye on their backs. Hispanic citizens have been here longer than ANY of your families with the exception of Native-Americans. This was part of Mexico until we decided we wanted it and fought an illegal war to get it. There is no way you can seriously state this isn't racial profiling, no one other than Hispanics or those who look Hispanic will be targeted, not the millions of other illegal immigrants living here and laughing at the insanity. My daughter's best friend is Hispanic, her family has lived here since before we were a territory, let alone a State, now she is supposed to prove her citizenship because the ultra-right has a problem with anyone that doesn't have pale skin. Thank you Mr. President, and thank the Constitution for having provisions to stop this kind of abuse of power. First it was the Jews, then the gypsies, mentally and physically disabled, the non-aryan blond/blue eyed, then Catholics, homosexuals....

It has been signed into law. Thank you Arizona.

Hopefully, we can get this on the agenda in the next legislature session in Texas.

We all know that Washington is the problem. As per the US Constitution, the States are the solution.

Don't worry liberal yankees, you can keep your sanctuary cities. We will be happy to send you our illegals.

hs321

i think you the one confused because there called illegal immigrants. They are still immigrants. Illegal aliens and illegal immigrants are the same thing.

Big Al-369306

No one called you racist towards Mexicans what does that have to do with the topic? that's great you got your citizenship i am happy for you if your post is at all true. Still has nothing to do with the topicl.

Ryan in Texas
It has been signed into law. Thank you Arizona.

Way to go Arizona...way to ruffle the tyrant posing as Presidents panties! Arizona stood for justice, law enforcement. Hey I know why don't illegals hold a parade that gets them out of work for the day and excercise their rights to protest? Can Pelosi's household and vinyards handle a day without their cheap labor?

this_guy530 -So Arizona is doing the right thing going after "illegals" by ignoring the constitution? The constitution clearly leaves national defense and immigration in the hands of the federal government, not the states. Arizona wants to go against the law of the land to go after those breaking the law.

Wrong, US Constitution, Tenth Amendment.

hakstarr - You nitwits this country was founded by immigrants to bad native Americans couldn't in-act this type of law when people were fleeing from the English government maybe more of them will still be alive today.

Wrong. The English and other Countries emptied out their Debtor Prisons, and sent them along with the Political Dissenters, Religious outcasts, etc. to the "Colonies"on a one way boat ride (many did not want to leave relatives and endure the hardships of life (and death) on a boat for months) as indentured servants. With the US Supreme Court later ruling that those later sent to the US as "Indentured Servants" like the Chinese (Japanese, as many could not tell the difference) that worked on the East West Railroad are Legal Immigrants. The same ruling was applied to the Slaves involuntarily brought to the "Colonies".

Greg4422 - The only illegals I see are the white people that stole this entire country from the Native Americans (aka Mexicans) they're just coming back home.

WRONG. The Legal "Native Americans" were the Incas, Aztecs, Mayans, etc. that were wiped out by the Hispanics or forbidden to practice their "religion" (like the Spanish Inquisition, guilty until proven innocent.). Their language, writing, schools, culture, religion, politics, were banned by the Hispanics. That is why the Mayan Almanacs stopped at 2012. So your "aka Mexicans" are the descendants of the blood thirsty Conquistadors, that decided to stay instead of risking their lives on the months long boat trips back (proof the treasure hunters looking for sunken Spanish Galleons). Even those that are called "Native Americans" came from somewhere, DNA indicating from Eskimos, Eskimos coming over the "Land Bridge" from Asia (Mongolia). Please stop trying to rewrite History.

@david 475776. I disagree sir...when the white man invaded America from the east the native America's that weren't murdered and infected with disease were forced down into Mexico. Also I notice you didn't dispute the fact white people are the true illegals in America and stole this entire country from the native Americans (aka Mexicans)

The constitution clearly leaves national defense and immigration in the hands of the federal government, not the states.

All of you who have said this have not offered any shred of evidence. PROVE IT.

I just read sections of Art. 1.

While the Constitution says Congress "shall have the power to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the U.S.," the states are not precluded - see Art. 1, Section 10.

Further, "common defense" is for the whole country. Arizona's law provides for Arizona's general welfare and defense.

I still can not get over the fact that the President actually thinks the Department of Justice can do anything about it. As a LAWYER, the President should surely be aware that there is nothing he can do about this and it is now up to the courts.

THE COURTS HAVE TO HAVE A CASE FIRST. This law just got passed.

THE IDEA OF ROUNDING UP 10-20 MILLION ILLEGALS AND DEPORTING THEM IS NOT FEASIBLE!!!

OMG - USA Rogue

I just sent another email to Obama to give him a link to this thread and I said WE CAN deport 20 million illegals. I reminded him that We Can is his favorite expression.

The question is WHEN is he going to start?

I explained to Obama that this seed was started at 7:30am Pacific time, 10:30am Eastern and it has almost 4000 posts.

I told him that most of the posts criticize him and PRAISE ARIZONA.

Let's use this energy people. Ryan in Texas will work on Texas.

I will work in CA. Anyone want to handle New Mexico and Nevada?

Will everyone STOP collapsing AZ Grandmas posts? I do not agree with Grandma BUT SHE HAS A RIGHT TO SAY WHAT SHE WANTS.

This is the United States remember? Freedom of speech.

Because her comments keep getting collapsed, I am reposting one.

You wingnuts scream and yell about the constitution and keeping government out of your lives and then BACK a stupid unconstitutional bill like this. Why the heck don't you go after the big corporations that are hiring the illegals instead of passing a law that will cost the state billions.

What part of this law do the bigots not get. Law reinforcement officers will be able to arrest you if you can not prove you were born in the US

This is hysteria talking. An Arizona police officer said that it's not like they are going to run around arresting people...

Just like a traffic stop, if a cop smells pot, he/she has probable cause to search your car.

A police officer stops someone for a traffic violation, asks for a drivers license, the person "no tengo" (does not have) a los conductores licensia (drivers license) and y (and) "no hablo ingles" (doesn't speak English).

THAT IS PROBABLE CAUSE to believe this person is not American. Why? EVERYONE who drives (for the most part) has a drivers license with them because we all know it's the law.

Even if this driver is American, we are supposed to have our drivers license with us by law, and I believe under this situation, the police officer could look up the status of the drivers license.

Guess what? I just posted probable cause that had nothing to do with SKIN COLOR!

golfmanj

criticize all you want obama, but this arizona law is about illegals!

BS. Its about illegal immigrants with brown skin, not all illegal immigrants and THAT is what makes it racist and profiling. We did another job of profiling during WWII when we place anyone of Japanese heritage, including citizens, in detention camps. Everyone like you thought THAT was a great idea. Someone here on a legal visa, resident card, etc. are NOT required to know English or have a drivers license. I am one Arizonan who will not allow some "less government" (sic) fools make me prove my citizenship like I live in Nazi or E. Germany. And don't even think of using that ridiculous adage 'if you've done nothing wrong'...tell that to the abusers of the Patriot Act. There WILL be abuses of this law, too. Neo-fascists like arpiao just can't help themselves.

Karen in Los Angeles

Guess what? I just posted probable cause that had nothing to do with SKIN COLOR!

Guess what? You did it again. You used someone who looks Hispanic and the Spanish language as your 'probably cause', that has EVERYTHING to do with skin color/profiling. I know citizens, non-Hispanics, too, who spoke just enough English to get a green card, etc. Some have visas to be here and aren't required to speak English. Gad, you people are AMAZING in your denial.

Again, so much for the conservative mantra 'less government', this 'less' is going to cost the State with lost revenue, failed businesses, lost tourism, and there are already cancellations of large conventions. How is that going to help the people of Arizona? Its going to cost a great deal more than the number of Hispanics they 'catch'. BTW, illegal immigrants DO pay taxes, everytime they buy something...which is a double-wammy of returning money to the State.

Pat G

hakstarr, are you just stupid or is your iq under 1? This country was started by legal immigrants

Pat, you couldn't be more wrong or more rude, actually. This country was started by men who immigrated here without the permission of the legal residents - Native Americans. They stole land, murdered the aboriginal occupants, and enslaved anyone weaker. (White invaders decided they wanted California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas so they stole that, too.) Eventually, these immigrants committed treason. The good, reasonable, educated and rational men who were here at the time wrote an incredible document, yes, but they wrote a document that protected the rights of citizens against governments behaving badly..like Arizona. You need to take a US History class, fast, if you are going to be posting in this manner. Right now, you should be feeling like your IQ is around 10.

You used someone who looks Hispanic and the Spanish language as your 'probably cause',

That is not true. In my definition of probable cause the person did not have a drivers license and did not speak English. I never mentioned skin color or "looks."

That is what I mean by hysteria. Watching some of these protestors remind me of toddlers having a temper tantrum.

Why is there an issue with confirming that illegal is illegal?

_______________

This is what I said for convenience:

This is hysteria talking. An Arizona police officer said that it's not like they are going to run around arresting people...

Just like a traffic stop, if a cop smells pot, he/she has probable cause to search your car.

A police officer stops someone for a traffic violation, asks for a drivers license, the person "no tengo" (does not have) a los conductores licensia (drivers license) and y (and) "no hablo ingles" (doesn't speak English).

THAT IS PROBABLE CAUSE to believe this person is not American. Why? EVERYONE who drives (for the most part) has a drivers license with them because we all know it's the law.

Even if this driver is American, we are supposed to have our drivers license with us by law, and I believe under this situation, the police officer could look up the status of the drivers license.

Guess what? I just posted probable cause that had nothing to do with SKIN COLOR!

What a load of crap, you are just angry that once again just as with the fiasco known as Health Care Reform, Obama has been caught showing his true agenda and the fact that he has everyones interest at heart, except the American peoples.

(White invaders decided they wanted California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas so they stole that, too.)

So tired of this hypocritical nonsense, we also stole NY, WV, Mass, etal. Fact is these are now known as the United States of America...you do not have to like it, but it is what it is and if you do not like it you do have a choice. I mean why would you want to live in a country with all of us thieves in the first place?

I love how you Liberals will tout the Constitution when it is convenient for you to bastardize it. "Well the Constitution was written to protect all illegal aliens equally!"

Then the load of crap that "illegals" do pay taxes everytime they buy something. Well hot damn! I am so glad that my tax dollars are not being wasted then. They buy a snickers bar and I get to pay for their health care, welfare, and food stamps for the next 20 years. Its a miracle! Obama was right!

So you keep stamping your feet and demonstrating by your very actions that the level of IQ you accuse others of, is directly proportionate to the age of the person making said accusation.

The beauty again of this was that Obama showed his true colors once again, and fueled the fire of Americans who care about this country, obey its laws, and contribute. More states will follow Arizonas actions...about time!

Since when does the Federal government get to decide which laws it wants to enforce and which ones it doesn't? Illegal is illegal. This whole position of Federal inaction is infuriating. Either do something or get out of the way.

Bigotry and ignorance are alive an kicking in this country. We have just a great history in our treatment of US citizens, interning US citizens of Japensie heritage, now we want tp reiquire that US citizens prove they are citizens. Maybe the rational ,reasonable and Constitutionaists should/could hope this will include whites, too, but that's not going to happen, nor will Blacks Asians, Europeons, Canadians, Russian mobsters, and other illegal immigrant groups. We know the first time a white citizen is required to show his/her 'papers' the yells of indignation and anger will be for the end of 'showing papers' ala E. Germany. If any of you can be honest you know this is profiling, and that IS illegal. You know citizens will be harassed, and that IS illegal. You know there will be abuse by Maricopa County and other individual officers. You should know that this will be very expensive for Arizona, lost revenue through the loss of taxes (yes illegals pay taxes everytime they buy something; cars, clothing, rent, etc), the failure and loss of businesses, the lost tourism, cancelled conventions. People are already cancelling vacations and conventions. You that approve of this act should all take some time to study history and the law, many of our families were illegal immigrants and you are citizens because ancestor gave birth to an anchor baby, the first whites here were illegal, illegal immigrants aren't voting, obtaining Federal money or even state money unless they have a child that is a US citizen, they aren't taking millions of jobs away from citizens.

Pearce likes to buddy with neo-Nazi J.T. Ready and forward neo-Nazi e-mails. He'll make lame excuses when caught, but this man is about 100 points below an average IQ, he is getting help for these stupid laws from others, possibly not even Arizonans.

I do not support illegal immigration, but I will not sit back and let my government usurp the rights of citizens, in this state that is a sllippery slope that will lead to even more illegal and draconian laws. Russell Pearce is a bigoted, narrow-minded zealot who is attempting to make the State of Arizona a recreation of an Afrikaner-like state. Pearce isn't letting the Constitution get in his way, nor human decency, nor shame. His draconian laws have already put small businesses and apartments out-of-business. My dad was looking for someone to work on his yard, try hiring a landscaper who doesn't use immigrants, even the guy with the McCain/Palin sticker on his truck. My dad is 83 years old, so don't tell him to do his own yardwork.

This requirement is not limited, as are some other provisions, to "law enforcement officers," the language requires such an investigation from any "official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision. The backers of this bill would like it to include all employees or responders, including firefighters. Since when do emergency care providers have to ignore their oaths to provided emergency medical care based on a person citizenship? Does that mean we no longer treat tourists or visa holders? How are we supposed to make the zealots happy and treat patients, citizens and non-citizens? I will not delay care while I verify citizenship.

It also makes it illegal to hire day laborers under certain conditions and also makes it unlawful for a day laborer to enter the hiring vehicle. Remember, this is regardless of whether or not the worker is undocumented, a citizen is forbidden to enter a vehicle for work.

"I may be a liberal, but I have never viewed the GOP as inherently racist or bigoted. Republicans are the party of Nazi-killer Dwight D. Eisenhower, and The Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln. Now it seems as if one wing of the Arizona Republican Party is trying to take back that legacy. I applaud them."

It's posts like this that make me really wish Newsvine hand "Down" votes too!!

Anti-American sentiment at its worst, its the same thing Obama is attempting to hand down to us. When you visit a different country do you have to succumb to all the Nazi's worldwide? Or do you just simply show them your passport? I mean thats what showing them your passport is right...Nazism?

People are already cancelling their vacations and the tourism industry is suffering due to illegal aliens? Of Mexico? Are their stores running out of flippers and fence cutters? But the real thing you have to love is how you sanction and condone illegal aliens being here by saying...

(yes illegals pay taxes everytime they buy something; cars, clothing, rent, etc),

Cars, Do you have those figures on how much illegal aliens contribute to the revenue of the automobile industry? This explains the automobile industry bailout quite nicely doesn't it?

Clothing, again do you have those figures readily available? Thought not.

Rent, then those people who rent to them should be locked up it is also illegal to harbor a fugitive. Oh wait breaking the law is ok right, as long as your motives are pure. That argument has always worked in courts of law. Its pretty much like saying..."I was just following orders."

Maybe many of "your" ancestors were illegal aliens, mine personally came over in the early 1900's from Scotland, they did not swim the Atlantic and sneak in. Their names are inscribed on the plaque at Ellis Island. They entered this country legally and became productive citizins of this country, obeyed our laws and actually did contribute.

Pearce likes to buddy with neo-Nazi J.T. Ready and forward neo-Nazi e-mails. He'll make lame excuses when caught, but this man is about 100 points below an average IQ, he is getting help for these stupid laws from others, possibly not even Arizonans.

What level of IQ does it take to make a slanderous unfounded rumor based on the fact that you do not agree with something a person does. I'm thinking 100 points below the average just might be a tad bunches to high.

Lets have a looksy at the real reason you want illegal aliens in this country shall we...

My dad was looking for someone to work on his yard, try hiring a landscaper who doesn't use immigrants, even the guy with the McCain/Palin sticker on his truck. My dad is 83 years old, so don't tell him to do his own yardwork.

First off do not confuse the word "immigrant" with "illegal aliens", two totally seperate things. Second what makes you think because your father cannot find any cheap labor that his lawn is an appropriate ereason for me and mine feeding, clothing, and providing health care for someone who violates our laws, its not. Hey I know can I put his kids through college as well? PLLLLEASE! Third, you guys spout off about how we need to go after the ones that hire illegal aliens, something I totally agree with 100%...lets make it like a Health Care Reform as in a pre-existing condition...lets start with Nancy Pelosi. Until you need to "use" illegal aliens for your own purposes, then you sing a different song. Heres a recommendation for ya, tell dear old dad that there are plenty of kids who would love to make $25.00 or $30.00 to mow a lawn and put a little cash in their pocket, if he doesn't have the energy or ability to check to make sure that the job is done right, he can call his dear ole daughter over and she can help out with that. I currently pay the kid across the street $100.00 to $150.00 to mow my lawn, trim my hedges, and weed. There are special circumstances for me paying him so much, but even if I were to pay him less he would gladly do it, thankful that he can make a little spending cash.

It also makes it illegal to hire day laborers under certain conditions and also makes it unlawful for a day laborer to enter the hiring vehicle. Remember, this is regardless of whether or not the worker is undocumented, a citizen is forbidden to enter a vehicle for work.

One of those conditions you fail to mention wouldn't happen to be that those "day laborers" happen to be "illegal aliens" now would it? Makes me wonder what else you conveniently failed to mention.

Its people like you that do more harm to minorities than anyone else. As you advocate the breaking of American laws and spit on them as you utilize them for cheap labor. You referring to me as a Nazi for supporting this law means just so much to me. How ever will I be able to go on!

Don't you just love someone who can take things out of context or imagine them saying something completely different they was written? Or how they just say something and expect the world to believe it? How about the name calling that is supposed to intimidate? How long HAVE you been channeling Limbaugh and Beck, because you have their tactics well rehearsed.

'you sanction and condone illegal aliens being here by saying...'

Speaking the truth is now condoning? Wow. Love how you make so many assumptions. I've repeatedly stated I do not condone illegal immigration from any country, in fact I said it in the comments you are using (sic) in your response, not just those south of our borders, which is what you and others have blinders on about. I just don't like to read so many lies, half-truths and misleading 'facts' from bigots and haters. People say illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, that is a lie, they do pay taxes. And they pay them on homes, too. How ridiculous do you want to appear? Asking me to prove that someone buys clothes???? And you asking me to give you figures on the number of cars? Its a lot, there are a lot of immigrants, so what. Remember, we were showing the ignorant that immigrants pay taxes, not how many cars they buy. Again, if you want to look and sound ridiculous you are succeeding.

Try not to take everthing so personal. I said many of us had ancestors who came here illegally and they did, if yours didn't YIPPEE, does that make you feel better? Your defensiveness is showing... (BTW, my families have been here since the late 18th c. on my dad's side, and since the late 19th c. on my mom's)

What level of IQ does it take to make a slanderous unfounded rumor based on the fact that you do not agree with something a person does.

Let's see, slander involves the communication of false information. Since my statement about Pearce isn't false, he does associate with J.T. Ready, want to see some disgusting photos, and he has forwarded pro-Nazi email. He also isn't very bright. Now the part about getting help is just my opinion, oops, but it doesn't come close to slander OR libel. Can't even give you an E for effort on this one.

ME: Remember, this is regardless of whether or not the worker is undocumented, a citizen is forbidden to enter a vehicle for work.

YOU: One of those conditions you fail to mention wouldn't happen to be that those "day laborers" happen to be "illegal aliens" now would it? Makes me wonder what else you conveniently failed to mention.

Conveniently failed to mention? I certainly did mention it, as in 'undocumented'. Makes me wonder if you need a dictionary when you try and comprehend. This one is just plain dumb, taao. Did you fail to notice that the law applies to CITIZENS, too? Are you so obsessed with illegal immigration that you don't get or care that citizens are being abused with this law?

You next paragraph is just you reaching, AGAIN. Why do you insist on being purposely obtuse or insist on twisting the meaning of a comment? You should (if you can read and comprehend at all) know that my statement about my father was in response to all the stupid 'suggestions' that people hire LEGAL residents or mow their own lawn...that you won't find many legal residents willing to work for the money that landscapers make and that not everyone can mow their own lawns. Yeah, I would rather my dad hire someone to take care of his lawn than to resort to doing it himself or being fined for not taking care of it. If my concern for my dad's health and income is inconvenient to you, well its a lot more than 'inconvenient' for him. Your disrespect for my 'dear old' dad is unforgiveable. This is a man who served almost 30 years protecting his country, fought in three wars and is one of the 'Greatest Generation'. There are no teens in his neighborhood, and you and your attitude are not going to force him to go and find one. If this hero needs to hire a company to take care of his lawn then he has earned that right. You need to earn respect and HE has, I doubt you ever will.

And exactly how many illegal immigrants are you feeding and clothing? The illegal immigrant is not the reason for your higher medical costs, check your facts, its the under- and uninsured citizens that cause the increase. A lot of right-wing studies have been done and even they couldn't twist the facts to their 'advantage'. Illegal immigrants are NOT eligible for Federal aid and most State aid, they do get some pre-natal care but maybe we should just let the unborn suffer since they are just innocent bystanders. Funny, how many of you are anti-abortion, but could care less if an Hispanic pregnancy goes wrong.

As you advocate the breaking of American laws and spit on them as you utilize them for cheap labor.

I take it back, THIS is the most ridiculous, false and just plain stupid comment you've made. Its your spittle they are wiping off their and their childrens' faces. You have NO idea about what I do, who I am and what my relationship is to Illegal and legal Hispanic residents. Too bad, then you could feel even more stupid than you already do.

Its actually people like you and other current day McCarthy's who are harming America with your hate, lies, half-truths and bigotry (look it up, its different than racism, which you suffer from too). The rhetoric of the far-right is full of negatives, anger and inflammatory lies. Because of your total disregard for our history, laws and the Constitution we have become an angry, hateful and verbally violent society. I can't wait for the more reasonable and intelligent faction of the GOP to see people like you, beck, o'reilly, et al, for what you represent..the antithesis of so much they believe in and want for our country.

LugerP

Oh, but it CAN be done without "racial profiling." Please inform yourself of the actual definition of that term, and READ the law to see what it actually does. Oh, and where in the Constitution is this prohibition on racial profiling?

Yardpilot

(ever the student)

Cynthia-1233995

Because of your total disregard for our history, laws and the Constitution we have become an angry, hateful and verbally violent society

Ewww just all chills here Cynthia. I know, call me a racist again so I can really just oh so feel it! Ya know I went to the vet yesterday to get my pets a refill on their "Heartguard". I was informed that the company was backlogged six months and I would have to substitute an alternative. What is it lately with pharmaceutical companies running out of much needed medications, even vets are having this problem.

Concerning history, laws of "this" country, and the Constitution here, you are so outclassed in this area that your mere assumption is not even borderline ignorance. Its simply ignorance.

StephenW

The law does not give anyone authority to stop people to determine if they are illegal. The law requires (with allowances) for people ALREADY in contact with the system to be asked IF there is probable cause. It is really no different than the way everybody is already treated about everything under the law.

For example, a cop can't just pull you over and search your car for drugs. If he pulls you over for a bad taillight, notices that you are totally baked on bud and sees a bong and a baggy full of herb on your seat, he likely has probable cause to ask a few questions.

Yardpilot

(happy to clear that up)

The "problem with that" scenario, is in the execution. Being pulled over for a "possible" tail light in a new car, which mysteriously is not present when the driver accompanies the officer to the rear of the car to view, said violation - is in fact a pretext. Every few years there is excessive broadening of conditions under which police can use as a pretext for further investigation. Seat belt laws, head light out, Tail light out, loud muffler, missing license tag, missing safety sticker, obscured vision (a Democratic candidate sticker in the rear window)... etc. These are "issues" which an officers, in the course of his normal day, ignores 99% of the time.

On the average day I see, 30, 40 or more cars with invalid licence plates... some more than 2 or 3 years out of date. You can't expect anyone to believe that NO LEO saw that car during the intervening years from when it missed renewal til the I or any other driver noticed it? I'm not talking about an extra month or two - we are talking about years, several years of violation. The same with other judgment calls, like incomplete stop at a stop sign, running a "yellow" light, parking too close or too far from a curb or parking in a Fire lane.

The point is, given free reign to "further" investigate an on going traffic stop, or during the course of a "Street interview", where a person resembles a person of interest, is manufactured and can be blatantly discriminatory - but legal foundation to investigate status of legal residence.

"Stand and Deliver" was the entreaty used by Train and stage couch robbers when accosting passengers pursuing their right to free and lawful movement in the Old west. The New west will resemble the Old South... Can I see your papers, or where are you going - will be the Catch phrase of LEO's in the new Arizona.

I am very against the current status of border control as it is today, but I am nt ready to ceed further lawless powers to the local constabulary.

Beowulf:
I don't deny the situations you mentioned occur, but I think you're pulling some of the worst infractions out and assuming they'll become the norm. Also, your concerns all seem to be more with the authority that will enforce the law than the law itself. Basically every issue you brought up requires a LEO to abuse an existing law, not follow it.
If the attacks were aimed at the LEOs, I could at least see the connection (though I still doubt I'd agree), but the law as written doesn't seem to be the problem. Most of those opposing the law do so because of their expectation that the law will be abused, not followed.

Smyth

...your concerns all seem to be more with the authority that will enforce the law than the law itself. Basically every issue you brought up requires a LEO to abuse an existing law, not follow it.

Quite right, and most people that I hear arguing against AZ's enforcement of Federal Immigration Laws seem to have "abuse" as the #1 reason why this law should not be put in-play, not whether there needs to be more control/oversight/training placed above LEOs that will keep them wary of abuse.

As Beoweolf mentioned, there are TONS of laws that have been put in place for the EXPRESS PURPOSE of allowing officers the ability to acquire probable cause allowing the officer to further investigate a driver, perhaps this is an area of the 4th amendment that needs greater protection in general

So the law isn't "racist" or unconstitutional as many have stated, but if the law is not followed, there may be cases of racism and the outcomes may be unconstitutional...? That makes a lot more sense...

Although it seems that most any law (when not followed) could create problems like this one. If we never passed laws due to fear of the law not being followed, we probably wouldn't have many laws...Seems like we can either pass a law to try and create certain behaviors, or stick with the status quo until somebody comes up with the perfect law that is somehow certain to be followed by all...However, since we know that won't happen, maybe we should just pass the best laws we can to address the problems we're facing (especially when a significant majority agree with the law).

Just a thought.

Smyth

Racism is already in play in most areas regarding interaction between LE and civilians. Terms like "DWB" have become ubiquitous, and racist cops is almost reduntant in some areas.

However, with that said, I don't think that laws should be ignored simply because they could be open to abuse, I think that the gray areas of the law need to be tightened to protect its enforcement and to train the enforcers how to properly cover their respective-asses from possible lawsuits and misconduct acusations (which many officers get anyway for doing nothing other than serving some self-entitled nutjobs).

Deb,

I agree...Bush wouldn't do it, Obama isn't going to do it, So the States have to do it. Next step to deploy the National Guard and let Obama use the rest of the military to fight the overseas wars and let the border national guard states exempt from overseas deployments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare Arizona take away potential votes for the democrats?

Absolutely dilusional.

They probably voted for Obama in 2008!!!!

Very well stated Deb!

I hope all you OBAMA SUPPORTERS are paying attention to this. The President is literally placing himself above the Constitution of the United States. Our Constitution is very clear on immigration to this country. Immigrants are to come here legally, become contributing members of society and within five (5) years take the oath of citizenship.

Forget about being politically correct to Mexican Illegals or Illegals from any other part of the world, wrongfully entering this country. No matter how you try to justify the situation or put a political band aid on it; they are here illegally. THEY ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS, THEY ARE ILLEGALS! Big difference! I'm not saying there aren't some contributing members of society in this group, but, you can't pick and choose which Constitutional Laws to obey and which to ignore, out of convenience.

If Illegals want to stay here;

(a) why haven't they registered as immigrants. (b) why do we have illegals living here over twenty years that have no intention of applying for residency or citizenship. (it is not America's job to support every illegal from every country around the world). (C) The majority of illegals don't pay taxes; and are a financial burden on our Social Security System, Welfare System, Educational System; Health Care System; and foremost, Legal System.

Has anyone considered the financial drain and clogged court calendars regarding illegals charged with everything from public drunkenness to 1st degree crimes. Those that aren't sent to prison (clogging up our justice system with their gangs); are deported; only to cross the border using another alias.

Not to mention the severe drain on our educational system. Granted every child has the right to an education; however, teaching an illegal child English then bringing them up to speed with the rest of the class is financially devastating for local school budgets. Plus, illegal parents aren't even required to shoulder any of the financial cost created from this situation. Like it or not, illegals don't have the same rights as a citizen; they are illegals and must assume some of these responsibilities because of their very action, as an illegal.

However, the real disgrace is to legal immigrants waiting for years to obtain American residency approval. These legitimate immigrants are denied entrance, primarily due to the over burdening costs created by illegals in this country. Our country has to restrict entry from other legitimate resident applications.

Some may say Illegals do the work Americans won't. Hog wash! Has anyone looked at the national unemployment percentages lately? Companies are moving their operations to Mexican and Asian towns; paying cents per hour, rather than paying legitimate American wages. Alternately, businesses in the U.S. are now filling Blue & White Collar jobs with Illegal workers, cutting wages in half and laying off experienced American workers. This also has a negative effect on the Illegal. These American businesses can work illegals 50-60 hours a week, with no worry about legal recourse. The Illegal can't complain to anyone, they would be deported. If you don't think this is happening; why don't you take a good look at the staffing at everything from fast food restaurants, to hospitals in every town.

No, bottom line folks, forget about Political Correctness! The Governor of Arizona is right. Every person in this country should be able to show citizenship (via legimate Drivers License or Birth Certificate), legal residency; or at the very least, legal work visa. If not, they are just a legal and financial burden and drain on our economy and need to go.

The final food for thought, is all the criminals crossing the borders as illegals. How can we protect our very families and selves, if there is no legitimate "Check and Balance"; or in place. (INS does a good job; however, the illegal immigrant problem is too much of a political "hot potato" for them to really address).

I say Kudos to the Governor of Arizona, other states should follow this policy. In my opinion, President Obama is letting his office go to his head... He is the President subject to the same constitutional laws and restraints as anyone else. Maybe it's time President Obama stopped trying to place himself above the law in this country. He is our elected President (for the time being); not our future Dictator......

It's also the gangs! We would need a constitutional amendment, but you should have to have at least ONE parent a citizen to automatically be a citizen!

Therese,

You have to mention in any debate on immigration that Reagan created our current problem almost singly-handed. There are always been some degree of illegal immigration in this country, mostly seasonal agricultural workers. No one seemed to see it as a big problem. But then some big contributors like ADM, Armour, Perdue, and others started using a lot of illegal immigrant labor as a means of primarily union-busting and paying low wages with no benefits. And they were big campaign contributors, especially to the GOP. So floods of immigrants came for the jobs. When it started getting out of control, Reagan declared an amnesty for the 6 million illegals already in country. Part of the reason was that the GOP wanted to make inroads in the Latino community since their only toehold was among Cubanos. This also made the meat-packers happy and the government lacked the resources (as it does today) to catch and deport that many people.

But Reagan's amnesty convinced many more people that they could come to this country and another president would give them amnesty as well. So millions of additional illegals flooded into this country. And there was strife in Central America, South America and the southern part of Mexico that also propelled a lot of people to come here. And no one ever mentions the additional illegals from India, Pakistan, Haiti, etc. The true number is probably closer to 22 million than the 12 million that the government uses.

Illegal immigration is a felony. Illegals should serve at least 6 months doing work in the communities (picking up trash along the freeways or building on the border wall would be good ways to do it) before being deported. And we need to go after employers of illegals who need to be paying fines that are high enough that they can't continue to hire illegals and stay in business.

Every legislator in Arizona knows that this is a bogus law. They know that control of immigration is a specific Constitutional obligation of the Federal government and that any state law is automatically trumped by Federal law. This also means that it will require racial profiling to enforce and the SCOTUS, as activist and right-wing as it is, will have no choice but to toss it out. This is just political posturing for November. This timing is such that the law cannot be challenged before it comes into effect and that it will not be tossed until after the elections.

But we're going to have to do something. These people are creating an underclass that is not healthy for society. They are taking jobs in a time of recession, and they are bring screwed by paying in taxes that they can never use or get back. We simply do not have enough law enforcement resources in this country to identify, catch, and deport 22 million illegals. Going after them one at a time is hugely expensive and would cost hundreds of billions to do so.

I favor going after employers of illegals and fining them heavily. Dry up the jobs. Then illegals will mostly return home. If you get the number down to 2-3 million, then it becomes possible to consider catching and deporting them. I would also like to see just enough reform to allow "guest workers" who were permitted here for less than seven months a year but could return year after year on valid labor contracts.

Bare in mind no illegal immigrant has a sign on their forehead saying that they are illegal. Therefore, this law would bring forth a lot of racial profiling law suits at state levels. It would be chaotic, trying to figure out who's illegal and who's not.

THIS CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT RACIAL PROFILING... AND RACIAL PROFILING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

The President is literally placing himself above the Constitution of the United States.

Yeah, well, if that were really true, he has precedent from the last bozo to hold the office.

Our Constitution is very clear on immigration to this country.

Our Constitution doesn't mention immigration at all. Some people claim that the power of Federal government to regulate immigration is implied in the Constitution, but there is no specific provision for it.

I am all for the strong measures laid out in the AZ bill. I believe that if people are here illegally, they should be rounded up and deported back to wherever they came from. I believe our armed forces do not belong overseas fighting foreign wars. They should be here, rounding up illegals and closing the gaps in our porous borders.

But I don't have to weaken my position by telling lies in an effort to make those who disagree look bad, or by resorting to hyperbole and exaggeration. There are better ways to make your point. BS like what you posted above just removes all credibility from the valid points in your argument.

Therese in NV where in the constitution does it say an immigrant has to take an oath of citizenship within 5 years of entering the country. You would be hard pressed to get a green card in that time let alone citizenship.. and I've never seen anywhere on the green card documents where it says you have to become a citizen.

I could be wrong, maybe it's in the constitution and I didn't know.. please let me know where.. I am genuinely interested.

This is not a left or right thing. Many on both sides are against illegal immigration.

The planned North American Union can't go fwd if this stays law.

Thats funny, I dont rememebr anything in the Constitution about racial profiling. That must be the liberal version.

To Theresa in NV. Although I support your basic position, when you state things like:

Our Constitution is very clear on immigration to this country. Immigrants are to come here legally, become contributing members of society and within five (5) years take the oath of citizenship.

you lose me. These words DO NOT appear in the Constitution!

Hey Luger....RACIAL PROFILING is only in the USA against a US Citizen or a legal immigrant. Last time I checked we locked illegals up in Guantanamo and threw away the key or have you not been paying attention?

The Constitution, this and that. This archaic old piece of paper is as relevant to the real issues of this world today as powdered wigs and Indian genocide. Perhaps, this hundreds of years old worldview that represents a world hundreds of years ago, is sinking this nation.

Sometimes, common sense should rule the day, duh. Can this nation afford the largesse of the more and more, more indigents, the least aware and educated from Mexico, more and more breeders, the more and more.

I am elderly. I remember a world vastly different than today. The more and more and their crowds, noise, pollution, longer lines, longer going from point a to b, more crime all spell a less quality of life for everyone but the wealthiest, who can afford their mountain getaways and seaside hang-outs. Quality of life for every American is slipping away.

Is this nation and quality of life better today or was it better iin the 40's and 50's? NOthing is like it was; quality of life in this nation is going, going. Comparing this nation to long ago is the difference between paradise and a paved, crowded and concreted world. The rat race and the caged rat, and rats grow mean when tossed, one onto the other.

oops :)

USA:

Something that makes sense! Building the wall from unspent bailout money creates shovel ready jobs and OBama can take some credit for it.

I feel disappointed in the president's stance . . . What on earth is he thinking???

Deb... I agree but then again, Obama might be in this country illegaly. I would say he is legal, but my question is why is he hiding his records? What is he trying to hide from the American People.

IMPEACH OBAMA!!!! AGAIN I SAY IMPEACH!!!!!

Hope-295312

I feel disappointed in the president's stance . . . What on earth is he thinking???

He is thinking he has an illegal aunt that has been ordered out of the country twice and has still failed to follow the rule of the land.

Nukeman-268739,

While you are basically correct that the U.S. Constitution does not mention the word "Immigration" specifically, you should take a look at "Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution. There you will find that the Constitution gives Congress the authority to establish rules/laws for "naturalization."

So as "Slick Willie" would say; " it depends on what you mean by" immigration and in this case illegal immigrants.

Roger that Snuffy!

We could follow the example of our recent past.

The first significant instance of cannabis regulation appeared in District of Columbia in 1906.^[3]. Regulations of cannabis followed in Massachusetts (1911), New York (1914) and Maine (1914). Simultaneously the western states developed significant tensions regarding the influx of Mexicans to America. Later in that decade, negative tensions grew between the small farms and the large farms that used cheaper Mexican labor. Shortly after, the depression came which increased tensions, as jobs and resources soon became scarce. Many Mexicans commonly smoked marijuana and had brought the plant with them over the border

Make dangerous UN-healthy tortillas illegal !

Hows about the 2010 tortillas tax stamp act modeled after the Marijuana Tax Act (1937)??

What part of the Arizona legislation usurps the Congress' authority to decide how to get naturalized or enter the US legally?

Mike 4637... how right you are! They are insideous basterds... Rahm is probably designing new voting districts as we write this!

beatbarneyndodd-998450

IMPEACH OBAMA!!!! AGAIN I SAY IMPEACH!!!!!

On what offense?

Our Constitution doesn't mention immigration at all. Some people claim that the power of Federal government to regulate immigration is implied in the Constitution, but there is no specific provision for it.

This is not a true statement.

Please see the provision from Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution which specifically deals with "immigration." The key word is naturalization, which by definition means "to confer the rights of a national on or admit to citizenship." (Merriam Webster online)

Article I

Section 8.

The Congress shall have power ...

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei#section8

Deb-1774605

Bravo Arizona my behind. Unless they are going to be able to profile Canadians, Europeons, Africans, Australians, Asians, Russians, who are here illigally then this bill is just the most recent embarrassment the Arizona Legislature has passed. Its profiling, period. Its racial, period. Its illegal, period. Its a financial boondoggle, period. Its pandering, period. The FIRST time my daughter is asked to prove her legal right to be here I will be pounding on the door of a civil rights attorney and suing my state for their irresponsible, illegal violation of her rights.

Karen in California: I have to send KUDOS to you for your defense of Grandma in Arizona and her right to post on these pages. Its a shame that people feel the need to silence anyone who opposes their point of view, especially since these would be the first people to scream if it happened to them.

Cynthia-1233995

It most certainly is NOT racial profiling. The questioner still needs probable cause. Have you READ the law? Please do. Simply being Hispanic is not probable cause, so your claim goes out the window. The same standards apply to the others you mention.

Yardpilot

(people need to read and UNDERSTAND before spewing)

While not racial profiling as policy does it encourage racial profiling on a personal level including actions taken by LEO's?

LugerP

THIS CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT RACIAL PROFILING... AND RACIAL PROFILING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

I think that just shows a lack of imagination, its far from impossible to get enough suspicion to check if they are in the country legally without racial profiling

Consider the following:

1. Pulled over for out of date/no vehicle registration on license plate
2. Working without a permit (selling by roadside, construction, etc.)
3. No auto-insurance

there could be more, this is a start

Charles Stark-1642988.....You say:

We are not racial "profiling".

Ok. How do you feel about the police checking everyone (regardless of, age, color, sex, etc.) for citizenship? If you think that might be too expensive: maybe you would like everyone to display their "credentials" on their right hand or on their forehead.

Crack down on employers. Without demand, there will be no supply (of illegals) and we won't need to infringe the civil rights of (or otherwise stigmatize) legal citizens.

There are only two kinds of people on the right... the rich and smart who make the rules, and the poor and stupid who do as they're told. Which are you?

If a cop wants to check my citizenship when he stops me for speeding or whatever, I have no problem with that. Check everyone, hell yeah!

Going after the employers HAS to happen as well. The ones who hire illegals are the major reason why we have so many illegals crossing. Bust their asses too.

Rick, There are only two kinds of people on the left... the rich blueblood liberal elite socialist that think their @!$%# doesn't stink and the poor stupid dummycrits who do as they are told and wait for the gov't to take care of them. Which are you? (what an idiot)

Ian,
Does this bill require that police check everyone randomly, or is it simply an extra check that they'll add to normal traffic stops or other violations?

Also, although I agree that we should hit employers too, it makes no sense to ignore the illegals and only focus on those who employ them. Shouldn't we go after both?

Please check my legal status I don't give a @!$%#.. I will gladly hand him my drivers licence...Ian we all would be glad to show proof we are Americans 8)

Ian we all would be glad to show proof we are Americans 8)

really? Wow.

Someone needs to read their history...

Last time I checked there is a great difference in racial profiling and criminal profiling. These illegals are criminals just like people crossing any border illegally. That is something so easy to understand that it kills me that the inbread don't understand it.

The fact that many here don't understand the legislation is of no surprise to me. The legislation mandates that law enforcement must verify legal status of anyone suspected of being here illegally. In Arizona that means Hispanic. If you do not provide proof of citizenship (no, a drivers license does not meet the criteria of proof of citizenship) you will be jailed. The US state department does not require every visitor to this country (see tourist) obtain a visa. This legislation states that if you are do not posses, on your person, legal papers (ie. US passport, US birth certificate, green card, work visa, student visa, etc.) you must be jailed. Does that really sound like a good idea?

This legislation states that if you are do not posses, on your person, legal papers (ie. US passport, US birth certificate, green card, work visa, student visa, etc.) you must be jailed. Does that really sound like a good idea?

Of course it sounds like a great idea....

to a good german..

Pat G

"criminal profiling" ??? Just exactly what does a criminal look like that would make them stand out from the croud?

Big Al-369306....regarding:

we all would be glad to show proof we are Americans

I think it makes more sense to (really) go after employers first. If that is insufficient, then it might be justifiable to force many legal citizens (who may have similar profiles to illegals) to produce proof of citizenship (a driver's license is not sufficient). I am happy that some here would not mind proving their citizenship at any place and at any time. I hope that is the way the law is enforced in Arizona. It is likely court action will require this.

Unfortunately, Arizona and other border states are at the mercy of non-border states with respect to enforcing sanctions upon employers. So long as any employers anywhere in the U.S. are employing illegals, that demand will create a stream of illegals passing through the border states. That's why this needs to be dealt with on the federal level. Hopefully, draconian measures such as this one in Arizona, will pressure the federal government to take prompt action.

BTW---If the large number of illegal aliens in Arizona are voting, how was this legislation passed by the Arizona legislature? Are the illegal aliens voting for reps that would pass such legislation?

Bare in mind no illegal immigrant has a sign on their forehead saying that they are illegal. Therefore, this law would bring forth a lot of racial profiling law suits at state levels. It would be chaotic, trying to figure out who's illegal and who's not.

THIS CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT RACIAL PROFILING... AND RACIAL PROFILING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Anyone ever wonder how the Mexican authorities feel about illegal immigration into THEIR country?

On their southern border with places like Honduras, its practically shoot on sight! On their nothern border, you are likely to get arrested and deported almost immediately, or if you committed another crime, you will be jailed and tried in Mexico's "guilty until proven innocent" court system.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14632

I think that Arizona is on the right track. While I'm not thrilled with the police going to be allowed to hassle people for proof of citizenship, there has to be enforcement.

I suggest that when an arrest is made, the police should be allowed to check for citizenship status, if they are an illegal, that will be added to their list of charges, and they will get deported to their country of origin. If their country refuses to take their criminal back, then the US should just deduct the costs associated with the prisoner straight from its foreign aid to that country or append the cost to any other monetary exchanges such as trade, etc.

As for requiring employers to hire only legal workers, the offenders should be heavily prosecuted, and when its a corporation, the corporate veil should be pierced and the hiring managers and everyone else within the scope of authority that hired the illegals should be personally liable along with the business.

Lastly, end the grandfather clause that arbitrarily makes a person a citizen simply because they were born on US soil!

The vast majority of people in America who do not speak English are illegal. It is probable that if you don't speak any English you are illegal (probable cause to search).

Linguistic profiling is not illegal.

I can't wait until some really tan yahoo in Arizona gets pulled over and arrested because he/she couldn't provide proof of citizenship. Guess what boys and girls, just a drivers license won't do the trick. You all better start carrying around your SS cards AND your birth certificates. Don't forget, you need it for your kids as well.

Yep, the Arizona nut jobs thought this one through didn't they? LMAO

Thanks AmericanVet,

you saved me the trouble...you're right, what an idiot...but then we all know what the man said, "liberalism is a form of mental disorder"

You all better start carrying around your SS cards AND your birth certificates.

Shellie, I can here the conversation now.

Officer asks: "you were a black marine in Vietnam 1968?"

Suspect says: "Una guerra pone un hombre mediante muchos, muchos cambios."

Charles et al

You are barking away at the wrong thing. Immigration law is in the constitution as a federal mandate because it has to be. Some things have to be uniform across states for a country to function as a country. The federal government needs to make laws that are enforcable and uniform across all states. Otherwise you are going to have each state deciding on different immigration laws and end up with a big mess. Think about it.

Bigger mess than we have now?? The illegals are bankrupting the states and the Federal gov...is this not an issue?

I have a passport and they are good for a long time 8) They are not difficult to obtain.. I still see no problem with a LEO asking for proof.. It's a simple process I reach into my pocket and pull out my passport 8).. The folks who are complaining including the current president need to get there heads out of there asses. We are broke here in Kali we have lost millions of jobs we have had to cut services on everything8( I am taxed to @!$%#..The Illegals are draining us dry.

So, Big-Al, the time when you go out to eat and don't have your passport handy, or any legitimate documentation that you are a citizen, then you'd happily allow the police officer to arrest you and jail you?

Charles, many so called liberals also care about the environment and the natural attributes of this nation. I consider myself progressive as far as the ecology of our Earth is concerned, and I am vehemently against more and more hoardes of humans, regardless. I am an advocate for Zero Population Growth to save this planet's ecosystems and their life giving systems.

This nation cannot afford more and more breeders because this impairs the quality of life for every American. These immigrants are the least educated, the least conscious, the least advantaged of Mexicans, and they have large families because their religion promotes breeding. This pulls down our educational system and level of collective intellect. This nation needs more educated, more intelligent and aware citizens that can contribute to the future and its burgeoning problems. And, we most assuredly don't need the more and more....destroying the quality of life for Americans and the destruction of this nation's life-giving systems.

Don't we all have too many problems with more and more energy requirements, educational systems and less and less quality of life? Do we really want more and more indigent, uneducated, unaware drains on our society? We need to be moving in the opposite direction because all our lives depend upon it.

Ryan in Texas - There is also a really good chance that if a person is in the U.S. and doesn't speak English, they are a TOURIST, or here on a DAY TRIP. I live close to the border and we get many Mexicans who come here to SHOP, and it's all perfectly legal.

Ian Emdee If a police officer wants to check my ID's, who cares. He is doing what he is paid to do.

Tell the Liberals if they don't like it, they should pay for the taxpayer costs to harbor, teach, feed and provide health care and jails for Illegals. Why should the taxpayer pay for costs for illegal activities?

Shellie-657180

I can't wait until some really tan yahoo in Arizona gets pulled over and arrested because he/she couldn't provide proof of citizenship. Guess what boys and girls, just a drivers license won't do the trick. You all better start carrying around your SS cards AND your birth certificates. Don't forget, you need it for your kids as well.

[Citation Needed]

Since when have illegals been able to legally obtain a driver's license? In fact, here in CA, every time a governor tried to put "Driver's Licenses for Illegal Aliens" up for a vote, they've recieved massive amounts of flak. Heck, it was one of the reasons Gov. Davis was impeached!

As far as I know, the only way to obtain a valid drivers license is to be a person legally allowed in the United States, be it as a citizen or long-term visa.

If you wish to continue with your assertion, I suggest you support it, because right now I smell BS.

and don't bother running to the fallback, "well they'll just use a fake ID". There's already tons of that as it is, if the officer isn't able to corroborate the data in their system, even the best of fake ID's can get spotted in short order.

landspirit

You are barking away at the wrong thing. Immigration law is in the constitution as a federal mandate because it has to be. Some things have to be uniform across states for a country to function as a country. The federal government needs to make laws that are enforcable and uniform across all states. Otherwise you are going to have each state deciding on different immigration laws and end up with a big mess. Think about it.

Agreed, but AZ's reaction is due to the US government NOT ENFORCING THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!!!!! Want to stop AZ and other states from trying to protect themselves from the hordes of illegals and the strain they place on the system....THEN PROTECT THE STATES! Maybe AZ, and possibly CA's reaction will finally get the Federal Government to do something! Right now, no politician wants to touch immigration enforcement seriously, Obama wants amnesty for more lefty voters and high-level Republican donators/lobbyists want cheap labor.

Right now, one of the biggest unfunded mandates of the Federal Government is that States must care for all of the illegals under their purview but receive no compensation in return. I suggest that if they want to keep it that way, then simply start indemnifying states for all of the services provided free to illegals such as ER visits and public school and start supplementing for the higher insurance costs from having to fund damage from uninsured motorists. Dont even get me started about the prison system!

Big difference between collecting up a specific population for extermination and deporting people who are not legal citizens, doncha think?

PSzymeczek - "Ryan in Texas - There is also a really good chance that if a person is in the U.S. and doesn't speak English, they are a TOURIST, or here on a DAY TRIP. I live close to the border and we get many Mexicans who come here to SHOP, and it's all perfectly legal."

There are over 20 MILLION illegal immigrants. You think that there's "a really good chance" that they are a tourist. How many tourists do you think there are on any given day? 200,000? 500,000? If 500,000 "tourists" stayed for half a week each, that's 52 MILLION tourists a year. We don't have that many tourists a year to the US (and many are from Canada, G.B. or other English speaking countries). So there are less than 500, 000 out of over 20 Million on any given day.

Out of 20+ MILLION? The chances are not "really good" that a person that can't speak English is a tourist.

If they are legal tourists, they will have the proper papers showing that. When we go out of country as tourists

They can check your information by you giving them your DL # your address they just don't arrest you for @!$%#s & giggles plus I speak fluent English 8p so would not be a problem..They did this to themselves by murdering that rancher and the countless others who have lost their lives.

Charles, YOU go there first. You think illegal immigration is costly? Well, bozo, think about what this idiotic bill is going to cost my state. Lost revenues - failed businesses, reduced tourism, cancelled conventions, lost tax revenue (yes, illegal immigrants DO pay taxes, think about it...they PURCHASE items that are taxed). Then there are the lawsuits that will justifiably be filed. How do you propose a state that is nearly bankrupt from over-spending (hilarious since this is the most conservative legislature in the country) is going to recoup AND pay for this absurdity?

Cynthia-1233995

...illegal immigrants DO pay taxes, think about it...they PURCHASE items that are taxed

Ahh the "sales tax defense"

Here are some of the major taxes, fees and externalities which they don't pay but costs everyone else

1. payroll taxes: if they work under the table, they don't pay anything. If they are using a fake SSID, then while they don't collect their withholdings and marginally fund SSI they instead do their part to fund the black markets in SSI-fraud and identity theft...that kind of fraud is costing this nation billions
2. vehicle registration: helps the highway funds among other public services
3. vehicle insurance: uninsured motorist collision coverage is extremely expense for a reason in border-states
4. Rent/Property taxes: while some do live 5-10 to an apartment, landlords aren't legally allowed to harbor illegals, most charge an exhorbitant rent to these tenants and pocket the rest. Some landlords even fraudulently recieve government credits for providing Section 8 housing! Either case, there is a discrepancy between income reported and taxes paid.

Aside from these, there are numerous other externalities and costs involved. Everything ranging from free child-care, welfare and foodstamps to anchor children, public education for both legal and non-legal-resident children, ER visits, and the likelihood that illegals are less likely to report a crime all have additional costs on the state system.

The US government has had a free-ride long enough by not tackling this issue. Bills like AZ's Imigration Enforcement or CA's Prop 187 passed with incredible majorities, yet the federal government doesn't want to deal with the situation because it could cost them votes or cheap labor depending on which side of the isle champions the cause!

If the US government wants to allow illegals to continue to flow in to the US unabated, then I suggest that they start reimbursing the border-states for all of the related costs which would include everything from prisons, hospitals, welfare/foodstamps, depressed wages, etc.

The parts of the country least effected by illegal immigration seem to be the primary groups complacent with its existence.

Cynthia -

The states and government pay out far more money for Insurance, food stamps, and other benefits than they take in as additional Sales tax money. They aren't all out buying Escalades and LCD TV's.

Most of the illegal aliens send a good portion of the money back to family living in there home country.

ghow-1147906

Same thing happened to a family member of mine. He ran a construction business in California in the 60's and 70's. He, unlike most of his competitors refused to break the law by hiring illegals to do everything from carpentry to electrical work and pouring.

Within 15 years, his competition managed to completely undercut his business because he couldn't afford to bid the peanuts that his competitors were bidding on contracts, and since there was no enforcement of the immigration laws, it was the law-breakers that won the business.

It's sad that Hurricane Katrina was what as necessary to wake up the rest of the country to illegal immigration. It was only after the rebuilding effort started that the South and parts of the Midwest (that used to brush off the border states' complaints about illegals) saw the negative effects that illegals have on their local economies when the hordes came in.

Perhaps now we will finally have the White House do something useful about this problem rather than just sit on its hands and ignore the problem as a means of pandering to the Bleeding Heart Left that wants more voters or the Corporate Slavery Right that wants to ensure access to cheap-labor!

I say, if the Federal Government doesn't want to start enforcing the immigration laws on the books, then they should assume the expenses for all of the social welfare programs (food stamps, welfare, WIC, etc.) and public services (ER, public schools, roads, etc) that illegals consume or indirectly effect (insurance rates, vehicle registration fees, etc). Perhaps if the non-Border-States and Federal Government start to feel the pinch that the border states suffer under Uncle Sam's unfunded mandate, then we will see some real change!

KAKA, everyone pays taxes if they live here. They pay taxes on every purchase they make which totals a lot of money.

pandering to the Bleeding Heart Left that wants more voters

THIS law is the fascist right pandering to the bigots who are completely ignorant and who only see 'brown' when talking about illegal immigrants.

To support amending the law so that children born here are no longer automatic citizens makes some of you the biggest hypocrits in the world. So many of you are here because your families snuck in a couple generations or so. Or is it because you aren't from south of the border?

My state could be the poster child for pandering, embarrassment (spending time during the biggest budget crisis in history to debate the 'State Horse', for crying out loud) and just plain white bigotry. No matter what many of you think, I live here and its all about the hypocrits who have this almost fanatical obsession with keeping the white, ultra-conservatives as overseers.

Cynthia-1233995

First, simple math, who pays more taxes?

1. A legal citizen that files a tax return every year with a W2 or 1099?
2. An illigal immigrant that works for cash or uses a fake SSID

If you answer 2, you are mistaken or intentionally ignorant.

Yes, illegals pay sales tax like everyone else making purchases in the state, considering that it is a common denominator among all consumers making transactions, using this point is invalid; especially when you consider that it changes proportionally by population.

Yes, some illegals using fake SSID's end up not collecting any refunds on their witholdings, and even pay into Social Security; however, how many earn enough to pay any income taxes anyway? Considering that less than 40% of the US paid Federal Income Tax (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36226444/ns/business-personal_finance/), this is also a moot-point. Additionally, consider the costs to society associated with the funding of identity theft and SSID-fraud from these particular illegals pouring money into this black market.

Considering the costs and externalities associated with providing welfare, ER Visits, foodstamps, subsidized/free child care, public education, etc. to their children, plus the fact that they cannot register their vehicles with the DMV (which leaves the highways underfunded) or buy insurance (which raises everyone else's rates from uninsured-motorist collisions), there are numerous additional costs and externalities associated with illegal immigration.

I don't think trying to solve illegal immigration is bigoted/racist. An illegal immigrant is someone who is breaking the law, this is not directed at Hispanics/Latinos, I just don't want the Federal Government to continue with their unfunded mandate that states must service illegals without indemnification.

If the US Government is willing to indemnify states for ALL of these costs and externalities associated with such illegal acts, wonderful! PAY UP! I think that CA police departments needs to be federally subsidized to handle the extra coverage, ER rooms need a major boost in staff and funding, public education needs the Federal subsidies to handle all of the extra kids, and all of the state social programs like welfare, foodstamps, child-care should also receive major indemnification!

Cover those costs, which in CA are estimated to be on the order of $10 billion resulting strictly from illegals and I will reconsider!

Becasue they are his voter base who will attempt to get him relected in 2012. Between now and then, expect an amnisty bill to be produced. Obama is foaming at the mouth for all thoes new votes.

Amnesty bill is already working it's way through congress. Just not big news yet.

Stopping illegal immigration at the border is the key, and the President said no such thing. This Arizona law is NOT about stopping people at the border. You and the 22 voters for your post have no idea what this discussion is even about and are just making accusations up.

It's simple you are either illegal or not. The racist card being trumped is BULL@!$%#. We as Americans can see through the BULL@!$%#.

Jeremy, illegals cannot vote. You must be a naturalized citizen to vote. Making a statement like that either demonstrates ignorance or a blatant attempt to misinform. Either way, shame on you.

And once the amnisy bill passes, they become naturalized citizens. Hell it even says so in the article.

During remarks at a naturalization ceremony for members of the military,

SO who here is showing their ignorance or attempting to misinform, because its not me.

Forged Social Security numbers, forged Driver's Licenses...We need photo ID's for all legal Americans. Without real papers, voter fraud can be eliminated, can't it? Advance Voter Registration that can be verified needs to be in place, with a photo ID required, in person.

Bare in mind no illegal immigrant has a sign on their forehead saying that they are illegal. Therefore, this law would bring forth a lot of racial profiling law suits at state levels. It would be chaotic, trying to figure out who's illegal and who's not.

THIS CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT RACIAL PROFILING... AND RACIAL PROFILING IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

icstars..................It's about catching criminals.

All of this talk about voter fraud! There has not ever been a proven case of voter fraud. http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/

Then what is your argument exactly Jeremy? So you're saying naturalizing members of our military is wrong? I'm not quite following your point here as you seem to be all over the board. Amnesty is not a reality. I'm quite sure it wouldn't make it through either the House or Senate, so your point is what? Are you familiar with the process of becoming a naturalized citizen of the United States? Are you intimately familiar with any proposed federal immigration legislation? I'm guessing not, so you must simply be ignorant of facts. The only statement I made regarding voting rights was a fact. Do you dispute that? If more Americans would use their God given ability to think for themselves there could be meaningful debate on issues as important as immigration. Until then it seems xenophobic paranoia will rule.

All of you angry at Pres. Obama for a guest worker program or amnesty...it was your demi-God, Reagan who proposed and signed into law the first of these programs. AND IT IS RACIAL PROFILING, ONLY HISPANICS WILL BE TARGETED. Your refusal to accept that doesn't change the facts or the truth. sheesh.

Cynthia-1233995

And besides Reagan being nostalgic for the Great Depression with his removal of numerous regulations, I didn't like his policy either for handling immigration any more than Obama's re-branded-rehash!

Amnesty didn't work in the past, it wont work in the future! We need enforcement of the law, we need the federal government to either protect the states from the burdens that illegals have on the system, either by enforcing the laws pertaining to illegal immigration or by indemnifying the states for the costs.

These border states are desperately trying to protect themselves. Illegals cost these states billions due to the strain on all manner on public/social services. If you want to stop the states from trying to enact their own protections, THEN DO THE JOB THE US CONSTITUTION REQUIRES OF YOU!

Look, the only way to really stop this is to severely punish the employers who hire undocumented workers. Period. If you take away the opportunity for them to work they'll stop coming. If we don't employ undocumented workers here, guess where they'll go....Canada.

I've been saying this over and over and over. Why is it so hard to understand? They're HERE FOR THE JOBS. And I never post in caps so I guess that's a pretty good indication how strongly I feel. The laws that criminalize not only the hiring of illegal aliens but also anyone who helps them are already in place. Why doesn't Arizona pony up and start more vigorously enforcing the existing federal laws. And I don't want to hear any crap about the LEOs on a local level not being authorized to enforce federal laws. I already posted an excerpt from this particular statute that makes it perfectly clear that not only can they but if they willingly ignore it they're breaking the law as well.

stand up, speak out

As Ron Paul has stated, that illegal immigrants are scapegoats to a bigger issue. One being hired in the first place as you have mentioned. A government who will not enforce the current laws so that people get into an uproar and then more laws are passed or more agencies or departments invented further expanding the government and of course the public and the manipulation that goes on with this issue on how it is acceptable.

peace

My understanding is that the AZ law allows LEO's to help enforce existing federal laws against illegals and those hiring them. In an effort to avoid legal troubles, they've specifically including the federal wording in their law, so that if it's truly "racist", then the federal law would likely be "racist" as well. The law seems to simply do exactly what the federal government has avoided for decades.

Isn't it the responsibility of every LEO to enforce every law while in their geographical jurisdiction? I don't know.

Smyth

Yup! AZ's immigration law even stipulates that it is to be in full accordance with Federal Immigration Statutes! AZ is enforcing the US immigration laws the same way states enforce the US illicit-drug laws!

The only uproar here is that the Federal Government DOESN'T WANT TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS! There's too many votes from certain demographics and too much cheap labor available!

james-1416766, northtosouth and Stand up, speak out

Exactly, take away the jobs by going after employers that either knowingly employ illegals, or don't do their due dilligence to ensure they are employing legal residents, and you will remove 90% of the incentive for illegal immigration into this country

That only leaves those who are victims/purveyors of human smuggling, drug dealers and impatient refugees, all of which law enforcement should be going after anyway!

So you think illegal immigrants are voting? Last I knew, they weren't able to. Did I miss something? As for the law, I can see both sides of it. Something has to be done, but we don't want to become Germany in the 30's where folks, including citizens, are stopped constantly and asked for their "papers". Ia that how you want to live or don't you care because you're white and they won't be stopping you?

What does being "white" have anything to do with it? Whay do Liberals hate white people?

Your post is a joke...no one is advocating indiscriminate stopping of people.

And what keeps an illegal from voting? The Dems want to abolish any notion of a law that would require anyone voting to show proper ID.

Last time I looked, you had to have a proper ID at the bank, to be able to drive a car, and to prove your age when making an alcohol purchase.

But you dont have to show ID to vote??? Gimme a break!

I can understand how it might be annoying to an American citizen of Hispanic descent to have to prove their citizenship to someone else. But at the same time, if you're here legally, what's the big deal? You show your id and go on your way. Similar to how some places id people for age when they try to buy alcohol or cigarettes.

Being white has everything to do with it. You know you won't be approached for your "papers" like the brown-skinned folks, so you're okay with the law. Oh, and I'm not a Liberal, I'm a Centrist Independent with Conservative leanings when it comes to immigration. I'm just not willing to become the next Nazi Germany with the "wrong" people being stopped and bullied by the "right" people (pun intended).

Clicker-785500

To answer your question....yes annoying in a way because I am an american citizen with all the bells and whistles that go along with. And are you going to ask for identification of my brother. Picture this my brother is fair skin little brown hair and full of freckle and I am medium dark skinned long black hair and no freckles. If we are together and stop at a shopping center - who are they going to ask for identification???

I have no problem showing my identification if it is justified BUT I believe he law can be misused in many forms.

Just my opinion

Oh Great 9.1: Illegals voting? Sure! Why not. Dead people vote in Crook County where the saying is: "Vote early & vote often."

Last time i checked native Americans were not walking a rounding asking white people for papers.

Bob

It has everything to do with being white. You think they will stop a white person and check to see if he or she is from Mexico? The Nazi's were constantley stopping people and wanting to see papers as well.

Your post is a joke...no one is advocating indiscriminate stopping of people.

um, that's pretty much exactly what the bill advocates (except it only applies for people who look mexican).

There are millions of legal mexican and latino immigrants who will be hassled ala 1930's style because of this law. It is a dangerous precedent (although I personally cannot wait until it gets applied to all illegal immigrants, meaning eastern european, canadian, etc. Then I will laugh at the outrage when WHITE PEOPLE are asked for identification without cause...)

"papers please"

And what keeps an illegal from voting?

um, a voter registration card? Can you really be that obtuse?

But you dont have to show ID to vote??? Gimme a break!

Yeah, but your name has to be on the list of registered voters! Yep, you really are that obtuse...

Did anyone read the bill where it states that police will be able to randomly stop people for no reason other than to check citizenship?
My understanding is that this will only apply to normal traffic stops or other violations, so the police would have stopped you for some other reason, and while questioning you, they'd also verify you're a legal citizen.

Did anyone read the bill where it states that police will be able to randomly stop people for no reason other than to check citizenship?

whether it's in the bill or not, you know it's going to happen.

My understanding is that this will only apply to normal traffic stops or other violations, so the police would have stopped you for some other reason, and while questioning you, they'd also verify you're a legal citizen.

And it's going to make obtaining valuable info from illegal immigrants during investigations super easy!! If an illegal alien witnesses a store robbery, do you really think he'll describe the perpetrator to the cops if it means he'll be asked for ID and possibly get deported?

I'll say it again,

"Papers please..."

um, a voter registration card? Can you really be that obtuse?

That's why the when I voted in the 2008 election and the 2010 Special Senate election here in Mass, all I had to do was give a name and address and I got my voting slip. No need for any type of ID.

You are so right, Bob, he throws in "unconstitutional" when they aren't even citizens, plus the fact, that Obama trashes the constitiuton and throws it in the face of every taxpaying American. Plain and simple, he wants the illegals votes when he grants them amnesty.

That's why the when I voted in the 2008 election and the 2010 Special Senate election here in Mass, all I had to do was give a name and address and I got my voting slip. No need for any type of ID.

:palmface:

you give your name and address because it's linked to your voter registration, which you CANNOT OBTAIN if you are illegal. Have you not seen the list of people at the voting booth, and they cross your name off when you vote?? You probably had to sign/initial somewhere too, at least we do where I vote.

If an illegal alien shows up to vote, gives his name (or a false name), THEY WILL KNOW IT and prevent that person from voting because the matching name is not on the registration list. (As an aside, if you don't know the history of why people are not required to show ID when they vote, well, it's not my job to spell it out for you. Read your damn history!)

Again, you really are that obtuse.

You are so right, Bob, he throws in "unconstitutional" when they aren't even citizens

the unconstitutional part is the racial profiling part, not the enforcement of immigration law part. It's unconstitutional for the millions upon millions of legal mexican and latino immigrants in this country. This bill infringes upon their rights too, and they are NOT here illegally!

I'll say it again cause it bears repeating:

"Papers please...."

OhGreat--

So you don't want the US to be like Nazi Germany, but at the same time you are saying your Constitution is toilet paper.

You cannot have it both ways. We actually have laws in this country or did you forget that.

-------------------------------

DrowningGrover--

I would have to say you are probably a bit more obtuse. Let us look at something here. The Democratic voter based is primarily minority. Minorities advocate for other minorities. So even if you are a legal minority you will advocate for illegal minorities, thus even the protests that have happened the legals advocating for the illegals. So of course illegals will support Democrats anyway they can so they can get what they want.

I would have to say you are probably a bit more obtuse. Let us look at something here. The Democratic voter based is primarily minority.

:palmface:

Nothing like broadbrush anecdotal evidence to support your claims. How can Democratic voter base consist of primarily minority voters? Think about that for a second...

How can any minority comprise the bulk of something, they're a minority!! White people make up 80% of the population (white non-hispanics are roughly 65%, fyi), yet you're telling me the bulk of Democratic voters come from the non-white 20%??

Math wasn't really your strong suit in school, was it?

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

It's getting a bid douchey in here. Illegals can't vote. It does say in this bill that the police must ask for documentation if they have a reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally. It also states that they cannot make a judgement based on race as long as it doesn't violate the language in the US constitution. The identification requirement states that an Arizona drivers license or ID card is sufficient as well as other states DL's and ID cards so long as the states verify legal status when they are issued. So, in essence, you need to provide a picture ID verifying citizenship. A passport. As many of you are well aware, many states (Arizona among them) do not verify legal status when issuing a DL. They only verify you are who you are. That's an unfortunate fact.

I've been stopped and checked for DUI several times. Not for cause but just set up to catch drivers under the influence beyond the legal limit. Yes, it's an inconvenience and then you go about your business unless you were caught. Then you go to jail and more importantly, off the road and unable to harm anyone in an accident.

A young commercial trucker was arrested, even after showing his commercial driver's license. He was born in Fresno and is a citizen. He was arrested merely for being brown in Arizona. And Ttey're going to be harassing Native Americans, too. Just wait.

DrowningGrover--

English really wasn't your strong suit in school was it.

Do tell me how many minorities really vote Republican.

Wake up for a second, take a sniff of that coffee and get that old cranium working. NOW do tell me which party minorities primarily vote for?

OH YEAH DEMOCRATS. Minorities mainly vote for Democrats.

95-100% of the black vote went to Obama. 67% of Latinos voted for Obama. 63% of Asians voted for Obama.

Has the brain started working yet?

Time for you to go back to school.

PSzymeczek--

Why are they going to harass Native Americans? Or are you meaning that because of their color and it would be a matter of confusion?

Ohgreat, in New Mexico, dead Democrats are voting, so how outrageous is it to believe that living illegals are voting as well. Illegals have been registered to vote in New Mexico. Just because it is a law does not mean anybody, Democrat or Republican, obeys the law!

DrowningGrover--

*to mimic you palmface*

It has been found that illegals have voted in Federal Elections. Where on this earth have you been over the years?

Non-Citizen Voting in Federal Elections

Did you also forget Illegals have been known to engage in Identity Theft? States have issued Drivers Licenses to illegals.

You really need an education.

you would think legal hispanics would welcome this, if we cleared out illegals (of all colours) so then we knew anyone here was a legal tax payer citizen then the pereception of hispanics would change, i think the majority of people look at hispanics as illegls so why wouldnt the honest ones want this perception changed, if it took a little bit of profiling then why should you care if your legal?

DrowningGrover (and anyone else who incorrectly claims illegals do not vote in the USA)--

If illegal aliens do not vote, why have so many been found on the voter registration rolls? In Washington state (after the last election) many illegals were found (by comparing the names on the rolls with those who were known to not be citizens) to be registered voters, and the state has been working to purge their names from the rolls. But my state is not the only one in which illegals have signed up to vote. From http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691:

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens...

Thousands of non-citizens are registered to vote in some states...These numbers are significant: Local elections are often decided by only a handful of votes, and even national elections have likely been within the margin of the number of non-citizens ille­gally registered to vote.

Yet there is no reliable method to determine the number of non-citizens registered or actually voting because most laws to ensure that only citizens vote are ignored, are inadequate, or are systematically undermined by government officials. Those who ignore the implications of non-citizen registration and voting either are willfully blind to the problem or may actually favor this form of illegal voting.

Now, you claim they do not vote (even though facts show many illegal aliens are indeed registered to vote). The following claims otherwise...

Following a mayor's race in Compton, California, for example, aliens testi­fied under oath in court that they voted in the elec­tion. In that case, a candidate who was elected to the city council was permanently disqualified from holding public office in California for soliciting non-citizens to register and vote. The fact that non-citizens registered and voted in the election would never have been discovered except for the fact that it was a very close election and the in­cumbent mayor, who lost by less than 300 votes, contested it.

Similarly, a 1996 congressional race in California may have been stolen by non-citizen voting. Republican incumbent Bob Dornan was defending himself against a spirited challenger, Democrat Lor­etta Sanchez. Sanchez won the election by just 979 votes, and Dornan contested the election in the U.S. House of Representatives. His challenge was dismissed after an investigation by the House Com­mittee on Oversight and Government Reform turned up only 624 invalid votes by non-citizens who were present in the U.S. Immigration and Nat­uralization Service (INS) database because they had applied for citizenship, as well as another 124 improper absentee ballots. The investigation, however, could not detect illegal aliens, who were not in the INS records.

A voter's registration card is extremely easy to get (even for foreign invaders), and can be used for identification.

How aliens view the importance of this benefit was illustrated by the work of a federal grand jury in 1984 that found large numbers of aliens regis­tered to vote in Chicago. As the grand jury reported, many aliens "register to vote so that they can obtain documents identifying them as U.S. citizens" and have "used their voters' cards to obtain a myriad of benefits, from social security to jobs with the De­fense Department." The U.S. Attorney at the time estimated that there were at least 80,000 illegal aliens registered to vote in Chicago, and dozens were indicted and convicted for registering and voting.

80,000 illegal aliens registered to vote in Chicago. In just one US city...and that was before the massive influx of these foreign invaders swarmed into the USA..

Wonder how many are registered to vote in California. If they lie about their immigration status, they can vote. From http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=16042:

As California election officials have admitted, an alien who applies for a license need only lie about their immigration status and they are able to register. Thanks to the Motor Voter law, this affront is possible in 13 other states with similar statutes. As a recent Washington Times article points out, a "stealth amnesty" is underway by the states that accept Matricula ID's, non-regulated ID’s issued by the government of Mexico, and grant driver’s licenses to illegals. A Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) report reveals that "The Matricula card is accepted as a valid form of identification by police departments, banks and 12 states for driver's license applications." This disregard for immigration law has no positive impact for Americans except those who seek to grant Democrats additional power.

No matter what you claim, I do not believe that all the thousands of illegals who registered to vote in simply one city (perhaps millions across this nation) did so simply for identification purposes and that none of them actually voted.

In just one pro-illegal alien rally in NYC, many thousands of illegals were signed up to vote (as Democrats, of course). From http://www6.renewamerica.com/columns/kouri/060809:

During the pro-illegal alien rallies in cities across the US last Spring, activists were hard at work registering illegal aliens to vote as Democrats. In New York, a city that doesn't require proof of citizenship to vote, activists registered tens of thousands of illegal aliens during a huge demonstration in Manhattan. News reporters on the scene ignored the illegal voter registration, preferring to give Americans a distorted view of the illegal alien issue.

You have a habit of calling others on Newsvine:

obtuse.

But the term 'obtuse' might be better used for those who have difficulty understanding the truth when it is apparent. And the truth is illegal aliens not only can vote in the USA, but have admitted doing that very thing. If the facts in the above links are too difficult to understand, there are other links that may be easier to comprehend. Google returned about 520,000 results for this search: illegal aliens vote in how many states?

Smyth,

Evidently most of them have not. The law states that those "in contact" with the police may be questioned "when practicable" if the officer (and some others) has reason to believe they are illegal. IOW, probable cause applies. No random stops, no grabbing pedestrians, nothing like is being said here by those opposed to dealing with the situation. I am sure few have read the law.

Yardpilot

(Actually read it. You can look it up on line)

I especially like the fact that no one has bothered to note that a valid AZ driver's license is enough to prove citizenship to the officer.

considering illegals cannot legally obtain a driver's license, I think that's basically all that is necessary...especially after the officer runs the license through their vehicle's computer.

I see far too many people jumping in against this cause without educating themselves fully. Many think that this is a fascist move, even thought AZ's law is not violating any federal statutes.

Then you have a number of Hispanic and Latino groups that are rallying against this, which is absurd considering the following

1. Immigration enforcement is not directed only at one ethnicity
2. You live in this country and enjoy its support because of its laws, illegals seek to exploit this generocity and the difference in exchange rate. If they want to become Americans, why do they send so much of their money to their homeland and live destitute while flying their nation's flags at rallies? Why do they not learn the language like my family did when they came here with nothing?!
3. If the country of your family's origin was so great, why did they flee here? Why aren't you back there trying to make that country great?
4. Don't turn our country into the hell-hole your family fled from!

Ultimately, I don't care where you come from, I want Americans. I want the people that come to live here to WANT TO BE AMERICANS! There's nothing racist or bigoted about wanting people to support this country!

This country needs to reform and enforce its immigration policy ASAP! Its too bad no politician wants to effectively tackle the issue, they would all rather sell everyone else's livelihood than to cost themselves votes or lose popularity among their constituents!

Jeff: If you want to name presidents that didn't really enforce the Federal law, you will have to go back and include the other Bush, and Reagan and some more of them. None have enforced the law.

Verno-

You are correct, few (if any) presidents enforced this law. Maybe because it wasn't such an enormous issue with devistating effects to our economy and public programs as it is today. Had Reagan or someone before him caught it early, we wouldn't even be having this disscussion. Unfortunately, he didn't and here we are. This nation is a mess on so many levels. Solving this problem is not the answer to all of our woes, but it would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Fixing this problem would have a much better impact on the ecomony than all of these new bills and reforms that Obama is imposing on this nation.

The term illegal is pretty much self explanitory. They are called "illegal immigrants". They should be sent home! They are not here legally, which means they don't have the rights that we do as American citizens. How ironic that they are protesting this. Of course they are, but they don't even have that right!! They are like locusts. They are swarming this nation, flooding our schools and hospitals, and draining this nation of the very little money it has left. yet they give nothing in return, are forcing our citizens to learn their language so they don't feel like outsiders, and are stealing what little employment is available. This is a crime, not a political issue. I don't believe the way I do because I am Democrat, Republican, Independent, or any other, I believe this way because I'm American. Come on fellow Americans. Let's come together on this one issue and turn this nation towards recovery!

Verno,

ALL of the past presidents who have failed to keep their oath of office are accountable for their actions.

This only further justifies Arizona taking the initiative to do what national leaders, including present and past presidents and Congressmen, have failed to do.

Verno,

WFC removed federal funding for the States to ENFORCE Federal Immigration laws. This was after the Supream Court ruled that it was the federal Governments responsibility to enforce these laws...

Not only are the borders themselves still porous, frequently crossed by criminals, smugglers, terrorists, and other lawbreakers, but the interior has very little federal enforcement presence. The federal immigration service has just 2,000 investigators (the agents engaged in enforcement) out of its 37,000 employees. The Border Patrol is deployed almost exclusively along the border. And the Clinton administration�s implicit policy of �we�ll make it a little tougher for you to sneak across the border, but once inside our country, we won�t touch you� remains in force.

Police officers also may hesitate to scrutinize a suspect too closely for fear of being charged with racial or ethnic discrimination. Such lawsuits as that won against Chandler, Ariz., in 1997, when police questioned about 400 people for proof of citizenship, can have a chilling effect on local law enforcement�s getting involved in immigration matters.⁷

Federal authorities do not help the situation any when they add to the confusion. For example, an INS deputy district director in Georgia was quoted, �It�s not a crime to be in the U.S. illegally. It�s a violation of civil law.�⁸ An INS spokesman in California referred to aliens unlawfully present as �law-abiding citizens� (they are neither).⁹ Such statements, though clearly wrong, serve to muddle local law enforcement�s understanding of what the immigration code says and how they should handle suspected violations.

*

Agreed! Why can't people understand that these illegals are not protected UNDER the constitution because they are ILLEGAL.

This isn't about immigration, I am for everyone moving here (legally) and trying to better their lives. However, they shouldn't expect a frickin' free ride! EARN your right to live here just like everyone else.

Furthermore, if this was truly against FEDERAL law then ARIZONA would not be able to take it this far. Obama has ONLY voiced his discontent and is watching it "closely"...funny now he thinks he can use the constitution when he BREAKS the constitutional laws regularly.

He wants the votes, that's it. Also, just because someone disagrees with the President doesn't mean you are racist, Dem Morons. If you are black and your talk crap about Palin and Bush then you are just as equally racist by your own logic.

papers please...

QUE?? No hablo ingles!

QUE?? No hablo ingles!

Documentos, por favor...

I always like the argument that illegal aliens have no rights under our constitution because they are illegal. So from now on, law enforcement can just pick them up, throw them in jail and forget about them. If they have committed another crime, they get no due process rights.

Maybe the same thinking should apply to citizen criminals (since they are criminals) we will suspend all of their rights.

We could save allot of money by doing away with due process for anyone who has ever commited an illegal act. All we have to do is re-write our constitution and get rid of all those pesky little inconvenient rights, should be easy.

Bruce, illegal immigrants have no rights because they are not legal citizens. I don't believe this bill states, "If the person is found to be here illegally, take him outside the village walls and stone him to death". The person would just be sent back to their home country.

Also, showing proof of documentation (as you would if you were an american in another country) is pretty painless. Show the paperwork, and be on your way.

You people are making this out to be like the end of @!$%#ing days.

Appalled, the Fourth Amendment does not say "citizens." It says "people" and "persons." Would you not extend Constitutional protections to a tourist here from Europe? They're not citizens.

No. I would not, however they should still abide by our laws while being here. However, a tourist is not an illegal immigrant, they are tourists. They are not trying to LIVE here illegally.

Do you not know what "illegal" even means? Before you try to use a poor piss logic basis, think before you hit the "post comment" button.

Appalled:

There have been many non-citizens who have fought and died for your freedoms. Would you not afford them the same rights as natural born citizens? Would it shock you to know that there are people currently in our military fighting the war on terror who would be considered illegal were they not serving?

Non-citizens are offered protection under our laws. Even illegals are offered some protections under our laws; for example, we can't just call open season on them because they are here illegally.
northtosouth: Need to check your statement with regard to soldier in post 11.10.
A non-citizen can enlist in the military. However, federal law prohibits non-citizens from becoming commission or warrant officers.
In order for a non-citizen to enlist in the military, he/she must first be a legal immigrant (with a green card), permamently residing in the United States. It's important to note that the military cannot and will not assist in the immigration process. One must immigrate first, using normal immigration quotas and procedures, and -- once they've established an address in the United States -- they can find a recruiter's office and apply for enlistment.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/f/noncitizen.htm

Me too. I also have been randomly stopped in foreign countries. I showed my passport and continued on. Didn't bother me a bit. At least I knew they were doing their job.

And don't give us that racial profiling complaint. Who else are they supposed to be checking. I'm getting ready to travel to Europe. I will have all the proper documents ready to show to ANYONE that asks.

Mike and PudnPi have got it- You go to Europe, you'd better have some ID and a Visa. I was in France last fall, and they were stopping LOTS of people to check - you look suspicious, you'd better ante up. Here , you can show up with no luggage, visa, on a one-way ticket, and it's "HEY! NO problem!" - blow your crotch up! We'll get you a lawyer, a place to live, free living accommodations, and a book contract!

The French are interesting- they REALLY believe they are better, which pisses people off, but they get the job done, which impresses people. I like their stance on protecting their culture. They crack down on illegal immigrants very hard. The last guy I saw at the Arch de Triomphe Metro station was up against a wall with 6 guys with machine guns surrounding him.

I am a tall, white, male, and I have been stopped in Texas by the Border Patrol. I was happy to show my ID, then thanked them for doing their job.

As far as legal Latinos being stopped...........................I would think it would make them extremely angry that they took the time and the hard work to get here legally and these freeloaders just march right in and take everything they want.

Ed: Why do you bring up Obama? Bush, Clinton, the other Bush, Reagan and some before didn't enforce the law. Why is it all of a sudden on Obama's shoulders? You people want to lay everything on him. Try looking back a ways and then speak out.

verno

Ed: Why do you bring up Obama? Bush, Clinton, the other Bush, Reagan and some before didn't enforce the law. Why is it all of a sudden on Obama's shoulders? You people want to lay everything on him. Try looking back a ways and then speak out.

Because if you havent noticed yet, Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan and the others are NOT in office now. It is now Obamas JOB, not Bush jr or Sr, not Clinton, not ANYONE ELSES BUT Obama. People are right to lay everything on Obama. IT IS HIS JOB !!!

I can't goto my boss and tell him that I cannot do my job anymore because tom who I replaced didnt do it right. Obama is in the same boat. It doesnt matter what happened before he was elected. HE has to do HIS job now.

Obama is President now. The bill he's blasting is during his administration, not Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter. Obama is always at the forefront if there's a positive photo-op, and when it's negative....the Narcissistic Obama appears. Go for it Arizona.

But yet, we didn't hear anything from you wing nuts when we had Republican presidents that should have been doing their jobs then. But he is president now, so it really matters now. Admit it, it is not about the law, it is about your dislike for Obama.

verno, ed brought up obama because obama is supposed to be the president right now and is supposed to be enforcing the laws and then when Arizona passes a law that allows the police and immigration officials to do their job obama slams them and then cries unconstitutional.

Hoiw absolutely funny is this crap the so called president that passes a law requiring citizens of the US to purchase a product from private corporations or be fined or imprisoned by the US government cries unconstitutional about a law that allows the police and immigration to do their jobs.

Verno get it straight just like the rest of the obama cheerleaders right now it really doesn't matter one bit what all of the other presidents have done the point is that obama is supposed to be the president right now and is supposed to be doing something about it right now. Maybe if he didn't spend so much time stumping for the healthcrap bill, ramming entitlement programs down American throats, killing bussiness, on the democratic campaign trail and fundraising for the democratic party and DID HIS DAMN JOB for a change then others would not be so hard on the idiot!

verno--just expect elected officials to do their job--represent the tax paying US citizen--The "Blame Game " is over! Why bother with laws if not inforced.

verno

But yet, we didn't hear anything from you wing nuts when we had Republican presidents that should have been doing their jobs then. But he is president now, so it really matters now. Admit it, it is not about the law, it is about your dislike for Obama.

total BS there Verno..