An experienced progressive intelligent military minded man has resigned. Such a victory for America.

From the article, he is an intelligent cowboy out of his depth.

As far as leadership, his soldiers don't want to follow him. As a policy maker, no one believes his plans will work. As a politician, he supports the crook Karisa and insults his Commander in Chief.

OUT ASAP

You're excited? Why so spiteful, cause he bashed your glory boy? How's Barry going to implement ANY strategy kicking the man to the curb?

What is going on with MacChrystal is simple. He expected to be treated with something like the regard he has for his own men. If he is really valued, and this isn't just word salad, then he expects that.

But he hasn't been. Obama met him once for a photo op, then ignored him. Unless you have been in that position, expected to keep up the morale of the troops, you have no idea what it's like.

See, MacChrystal understands that leadership isn't about "giving orders". An officer who does that should get cashiered immediately. He goes out on patrol with his men, he listens to them. He lets them send messages directly saying what they really think. Because he knows that is the only way to lead and succeed in a place like Afghanistan.

But Obama and the whole white house team treat him like a wrench. They don't know him, they don't care to know him. They think leadership is photo ops and giving orders.

I voted for Obama, I don't think he went far enough on health care, mostly I'm behind him. But on this one? He's wrong. Flat wrong. This is crapola.

I see all the lefties are finally out of bed! HAHAHA

John, Obama gave McChrystal 3 times as many troops as Bush put into Afghanistan.

The hardest thing for a boss to learn is that when somebody needs firing, the best time to do it is today. There is absolutely nothing that will make it better tomorrow. If there is a major project going on, all the other people in the group will work all that much harder because they understand why the General should be fired.

He will never have any more respect with his men. He is toast as a leader.

You are talking about the president I presume. I tend to agree, unfortunately.

The result of this little schoolyard tiff is that we are going to lose in Afghanistan. And not too long after that, an American city will be nuked after the Taliban take over Pakistan with its nuclear weapons. (Which has always been bin Laden's goal.

And then people like you will be raving about that.

#1.8

Exactly!

Everybody is replaceable.

McChrystal has embarrassed himself, his rank, and his country. What would he do if one of his subordinates spoke in such a way???

Where are all the neo-cons that were so pissed at Boxer when she asked to be called by her title???? This is a much worse offense, but they are all backing him.

Obama needs to get over the fact that McChrystal has voiced the same opinions about this administration as the majority of the voters are already thinking. Let the man do his job in Afghanistan so the troops can come home. This is pure pettiness on Obama's part. Not everyone in this country thinks that he is the Second Coming and he needs to get over it.

John, Obama gave McChrystal 3 times as many troops as Bush put into Afghanistan.

A very good and valid point, bad bob. McChrystal has little cause to complain regarding the level of support accorded him in the last 18 months, especially when one compares support for the Afghanistan war efforts under George W. Bush.

I don't blame the general for feeling or privately expressing frustration with the civilian chain of command. The key word here is, of course, privately. He should know better than to express himself regarding his commander in chief in such a public and unscripted manner. There's an old saying that your boss may not always be right, but he (or she) is always your boss. A military man should not need this explained to him.

On the flip side, Obama can not easily afford to just fire General McChystal. To do so would incure both a high political and higher military cost. So I'm guessing that the General will stay. But Obama needs to get the 3 parties involved together and explain that if they have any differences he doesn't want to read about them in the Washington Post (or see them aired on U-Tube). Anybody who cannot work under this simple rule needs to go.

This is insubordination - what job do you have where it's ok to openly criticize your boss? He bit the hand!

John Toradze 1.7:

If you think that this is why we will lose in Afganistan, you are dreaming. There is no way to "win" there.

The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters, according to the principles laid out by our Founding Fathers in the Constitution. Anyone who is unpatriotic enough to criticize our Commander in Chief during wartime needs to move to some third world country where a military coup every 6 months is the norm.

MarineVet---Indeed!! Semper Fi!!

david, do you think ANYONE is going to read your whole rant?

marinevet, can you believe we agree again. That was the type of comment I expect from a true vet. Thanks for your service (you have indeed proven yourself).

As an officer in our military, he violated the Code he swore to uphold and consequences will follow.

If he was a civilian, I'd buy him a beer.

Stan is a no nonsense killer. He sees Obama for what he is. A lowlife lying thug politician with no regard for anything or anyone if the furthering of himself or his agenda is not involved. . It was just a matter of time before he got so disgusted dealing with Obama and his band of merry idiots that he spoke his mind.

disjointed, then he should have done so privately, not publicly.

Hey Mixman - whether you like it or not, a General does NOT dis the President of the US of A. Period. It isn't done.

You would have been steaming if he did this with Bush or McCain (who thankfully isn't Prez). It doesn't matter who is in office, it is bad, bad form to be insubordinate to your Commander in Chief.

I don't care if what he said is right or wrong,you keep it in house at all times. When you go out and says these things in the media all you do is give the enemy thinking we can be divided and give them more hope of victory. Nothing is accomplished at all. Does he think that Obama is going to reverse his thinking because he went public?

I believe it is no different then when Truman had to fire General MacArthur in Korea.

An experienced progressive intelligent military minded man has resigned. Such a victory for America.

And how is throwing out trained career minded and in some cases battle medal awarded gays from the military any different when they are in the same category as your thinking on General McChrystal? Lots of things aren't fair in this world of ours but a double standard is something that can be very easily fixed...

stspecialk- david, do you think ANYONE is going to read your whole rant?

People that want to know the whole truth without PC (Political Correctness), white lies, or "errors of omission" would read about the whole interrelated mess.

Those that want to remain lazy, ignorant, illiterate and in the dark will not.

This is like I kept saying things about the mineshafts here, not being caves, and no one listened until everyone was told about all the mineral resources in those mineshafts. Hint: found by US Military trained in Mountain Warfare (including Mountain Climbing and Spelunkering aka "Caving") going into these mineshafts.

Gen. McCrystal did the right thing. He may well have been right on every point but you have to show respect to the President and Vice President as well as those they appoint. This "resignation" hopefully will allow a smoother transition than the firing of another General would have!

"The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters, according to the principles laid out by our Founding Fathers in the Constitution. Anyone who is unpatriotic enough to criticize our Commander in Chief during wartime needs to move to some third world country where a military coup every 6 months is the norm."

Are we talking about the whole of the democratic Senate and House of Reps, including Obama?

They all did it while I was serving during OIF3, do you all remember or are you suffering from selective memory?

Edward Bruce - I read elsewhere that he was a soldiers general. He would show up unannounced to lead many engagements. Be careful what you read, you are reading someone opinion of the facts.

BTW something that seems lost on Newsvine. McChrystal voted for Obama.

That said, General McCrystal could resign, who ever is working most closely in his staff should be able to bring the next commander up to speed.

Then he can more fully criticize the President, something similar to Wesley Clark and Shelivinseki. Shelivinseki should have resigned when Bill Clinton was gutting our military in the 90's, as a matter of principle.

When the wars are over, I am sure many will leave because this President will not be good for the military.

All US military service members give/pledge allegiance to the 'US Constitution' not the POTUSA. They have also sworn to support 'ALL Lawful Orders'.

McChrystal may not have used the correct forum and will suffer the consequences. But as a military leader he is REQUIRED to inform the US Citizens when the Politicians they elected are making the wrong decisions, placing our military soldiers at risk, and risking the security of the USA.

Semper Fi MSgt (ret)

sts

I agree with you. But I imagine this is what goes on behind the scene when intelligent rational adults have to deal with the manboy. Another very recent example is Kyl. I'm sure everyone who has to deal with him walks away shaking their heads. It has been reported that Stan is so stretched and stressed that he eats one meal a day and sleeps four hours a night. Maybe such conditions eventually got the better of him temporarily.

I always enjoy reading david's post. They are usually very informative.

don't undersell mccrystal........seeing the level of incompetence in this administration as well as the a$$inine restrictions the clowns in D.C. have hamstrung our military with........ask for permission BEFORE any response can be undertaken as well as the idiotic idea of informing the enemy of the withdrawl date beforehand is the stupidest tactic ever employed in a theatre of war........the man might have used this as his own exit strategy whilst forcing team obama to once again act "stupidly" as obama himself has accused others of doing.......considering the wanna be leader hand picked mccrystal himself which shows a poor ability to judge one's subordinates as well as making sound personell decisions.

FOLKS...he has not resigned!!!! He has offered to resign...BIG difference!

Obama-san will have a "chat" with him and hopefully Gen Mac C can tell him that his staff has been given a crash course on "DC Political" public relations, and possibly that one or two have been replaced. The first to go should be his Public Affairs dude that failed to set the proper tone with the staff on what should and shouldn't be related to the press.

Obama-san can not afford to fire him at this time. Obama-san has to realise that Gen Mac C is not a politician and does not believe in playing "games"...particularly with his forces!!!! I am sure, without a doubt, Gen Mac C knows he has stepped in it. He has already fallen on his sword by calling all concerned to make ammends and by offering to resign. But this is not on the scale of Gen Mac Arthur during Korea, where he refused to do something Pres Truman told him to do...that was flagrant insubordinaton.

Bottom line...it is a sad state of affairs when trusted military officers relate private comments (made during the course of daily staff activities) to members of the press...period! There is no excuse for that.

This was a total breakdown of, "what goes on here, stays here." I am sure that Gen Stan has already thoroughly discussed that with his staff. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

McChrystal is worthy since his comments are the opposite of valuable. Just because we have hundreds to 10s of thousands commenting from the half a toilet seat they use to make their contribution. Think for once about those who sit within range of the enemy, we ask them to make the ultimate sacrifice.

While we sit at home, wallowing in hog swill. McChrystal has insulted every soldier, and every family who has to live beyond that sacrifice.

While we at home have to overcome the waste so many idled workers,

while we have to find a way to earn money honestly,

while we have to rebuild government that works,

while reform regulators needed to that keep the greedy from killing us,

while we have to rebuild communities devastated by natural and manmade disaster,

while we have to rebuild neighborhoods, shattered by distant mortgage lenders,

while the list of objectives at home grows long and the list of what can be done abroad get shorter.

Blog comments from half seat are an abject waste of time and energy nothing usable or lasting.

There is a good possibility that pig like Blog comments are the source of the Mc Chrystal’s stupidity.

One last thought I have waited 40 years to make this comment, and I apologize in advance: Internet blogging reminds me of the castrated pig, so stupid that they’d eat the own nuts.

Wilberta Berry

#1.8

Exactly!

Everybody is replaceable.

My thoughts exactly Obama needs to go.

I suspect Gen. McChrystal decided that it was time to retire so he did this as one last action to help the troops. Every officer and I expect enlisted troop knows that you don't critize the Commander in Chief no matter how big an idiot he is. It is just not done because the whole system falls apart if you do. This issues should have been discussed in private. If you value your career you don't criticize a giant ego like Obama. This was not an accidental slip of the tongue, this was a calculated move by the General to send a strong message. IMHO

AC Robertson

All US military service members give/pledge allegiance to the 'US Constitution' not the POTUSA. They have also sworn to support 'ALL Lawful Orders'.

And the Constitution puts the President in charge of the Military as Commander in Chief does it not? Tell us just what unlawful order he was given? Not agreeing with an order or course of action your superior has chosen does not make his orders unlawful...

Nice try at rationalizing your thoughts.......

28 months (My thoughts exactly Obama needs to go) till we can end the administration of Jimmah Cahtah II!

Everybody is replaceable.

Exactly. That's why we'll be sayin' buh-bye to barry the idiot in Nov '012...lol

Shades of Viet Nam! Washington is calling the shots in a war and they are ill-equipped to do so. Yeah, Barry pushed for us losing during the short time he was a senator. Now he is in a position where he can seal the deal.

Obama likes to tout when the top brass agrees with him. Now he wants to fire someone for disagreeing with him.

If Bush didn't have the right to fire those US Attorneys and got investigated for it, isn't the Obama approach even worse?

General McChrystal never refused to follow an order, he simply gave his opinion that is based on decades of military experience; something completely lacking in the Whitehouse right now.

I'm going to go out on a limb and state the President will not accept his resignation... David, you comment was way too long, just couldn't read it bro !!!!

There is no other qualified general to take his place?

This whole thing reminds me of another stupid public comment....when Obama said the police acted stupidly when they arrested a man that refused to identify himself after a report of a possible break in. If people feel that the General should be fired or resign...then it should have been the same for Obama.

I don't think the General's comments were appropriate in a public forum. I'm sure they are accurate, but like another poster said...we need to keep our dirty laundry private.

Is Afgan program on pace? Are our soldiers inspired? Are we doing the right thing when our soldiers entrust their lives to their companders?

As a platoon leader, your job is the platoon and 1 step beyond. When you are the leader of the Afgan, then your job is the whole campaign + 1 step beyond (which is the PR regarding the Afgan campaign). Is he a soldier's general? It is hard to make that conclusive either. So far his troops are not satisfied.

His job is to accomplish his job. He is here to serve as Monday Night Football comentator. Very disappointed to hear this kind of story. Of course there will be people blaming President Obama. Well, the administration provided the support, and pushed the legislators to provide budget. The administration has every right to question the general of his accomplishment.

This is a no win situation for Obama. If he fires him. Obama looks like he is in charge. However, he fires his best general in the verge of the upcoming offensive. If he doesn't then Obama looks weaker. It is a no win situation.

I'm sure the president can find another General who is loyal, understands the chain command, and doesn't breed insubordination among his men. "I'm sooory" wreaks of cynicism. He should resign or be fired. President Obama shouldn't have listened to McChrystal about increasing troops, he should have listened to his base and started bringing those troops home. Same goes for Iraq, only that should have happened yesterday. No amount of trying to appease the hawks/jealous GOP losers is going to make Patriots out of them. They are determined to obstruct this presidency and government, and they don't care how low they bring the country to do it. The GOP won't be satisfied until they have another one of their idiots in the White House.

Tell the truth, tell it like it is, and your head is on the chopping block. I do admit that some people just need to keep their opinions to theirselves, but I mean, Rolling Stone magazine? Are you kidding me? How could they not know that RSM would get all the mileage out of this that they can, regardless of the fallout?

Obama and Biden are fools. They attack our military leaders; frankly because, neither of them know what they are doing in the White House! We have only ourselves to blame regarding the mess in Afghanistan and Iraq. Like it or not, you can't vote a man into the Presidency and make him Commander and Chief of all the Military; when he has never served One (1) day and has no concept of military strategy. It's not up to others (including Biden) to call the military shots and make decisions Obama doesn't know how to.

Frankly, coming from a military family; our President isn't well thought of. Why? Because he uses every opportunity to "throw the military under the bus" when backed into a corner. President Obama isn't respected because he doesn't give respect. Plain and simple.

President Obama is an opportunist. He is more interested in "making points" with the U.N. and foreign leaders than doing the job he was elected to do. All this President and his administration want is: more control over the population; less personal freedoms; more U.N. involvement, even on American soil; and "Passing the Buck" (Usually, Military, Republicans, Tea-Party, Special Interest Groups protecting Constitutional Rights, etc) when called out on President Obama's shortcomings, excessive spending, and Dictatorial attitude and Administration policy.

You people had better wake up soon. Everything President Obama and his administration is working toward tends to be more government control; less personal freedoms; more U.N. control (even on U.S. soil); and military under U.N. control. This President has already demostrated his contempt for the Constitution, when it suits him. At this rate, we won't have a democratic country by 2012. Perhaps it's time to consider firing President Obama! Anyone for empeachment on the grounds of incompetence!

About what you would expect from a president who has never actualy had any experience running anything, other than a university law school class. Kind of sux.

God help us all.

Therese and all others fighting the indisputable facts:

Plain and simple truth is that no matter what your political bias is, left, right, or somewhere in the middle there is a code that has been broken by an obviously narcissistic General Officer. The President of the United States is the Commander in Chief of the US military. This duty was placed in Constitutional presence for a very good reason. You don't have to look very far in world history to understand why the military cannot and should not be the omega. Checks and balances my friends...we do not elect military leaders...but we do elect the President of the United States. For good or bad...the elected official is the voice of the citizens of this great country. I have to say I'm very shocked and surprised at the reaction of my fellow military brothers...you above everyone else should understand that this General must go.

I wouldn't expect Obama to fire McCrystal, he's too big of a wimp and a suck up to the Right and the military. McCrystal is Obama's Von Heydrich, the brutal Nazi general who also used "counter insurgency" against the resistance in occupied Europe (I wouldn't be surprised if McCrystal admires some of Heydrich's tactics or, secretly, even Heydrich himself).

Just like now in the countries we invaded, the Nazi's in Europe referred to anyone fighting against them as "Terrorists" (They were the first ones to use the term that way).

Don't believe me? Here's some excerpts from transcripts of the War Crimes Trials in Nuremberg after WWII:

Source: Law-Reports of Trials of War Criminals, The United Nations War Crimes Commission, Volume XII, London, HMSO, 1949
[Some sections have been highlighted provisionally until hyperlinks can be added to appropriate files. Page numbers precede text]
CASE NO. 72
THE GERMAN HIGH COMMAND TRIAL
TRIAL OF WILHELM VON LEEB AND THIRTEEN OTHERS
UNITED STATES MILITARY TRIBUNAL, NUREMBERG,
30TH DECEMBER. 1947 - 28TH OCTOBER, 1948
Part I
(http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/ghctrial1.htm)
...The accused Lehmann (Generaloberstabsrichter Rudolf Lehmann, see below) pleaded that the original ideas were Hitler’s but there seems to be no doubt from the evidence that Lehmann substantially contributed to the final product. The evidence did not suffice to show any criminal connection on the part of the accused Warlimont with this decree.
On the 1st July, 1944, the accused Warlimont sent the following teletype to the chief of the legal department of the OKW (WR), the accused Lehmann :
" Subject : Combating of enemy terrorists in the occupied territories.
" On account of events in Copenhagen, the Fuehrer has decreed that court-martial proceedings against civilians in the occupied territories must be discontinued with immediate effect. WR is requested to submit suggestions for the draft of an order concerning the treatment of enemy terrorists and saboteurs among the civilian population in the occupied territories by 2nd July, 2000 hours.
0002000008F1000007C08EB,
" Policies :
" Terror can be countered only by terror, but court-martial sentences only create martyrs and national heroes.

In response to this "Terrorism", and with tactics much like McCrystal is an exponent of and has done, Heydrich initiated the the "Night and Fog" and "Carrot and Stick" (You know like the way we both kill/torture suspected insurgents and also build clinics, schools in countries we have invaded) campaigns:

Reinhard Heydrich

By late 1940, Hitler's armies had swept through most of Western Europe. To Hitler's dismay, anti-Nazi resistance was alive and well, especially in Norway, France, the Netherlands and Belgium. In 1941, the SD was given the responsibility of carrying out the Nacht und Nebel (Night and Fog) decree, designed to crush this resistance. According to the decree, suspects had to be arrested in a maximally discreet way "under the cover of night and fog". People simply disappeared without a trace and no one was told of their whereabouts or their eventual fate. For each prisoner, the SD was required to fill out a questionnaire that listed their personal information, their country of origin and the details of their crimes against the Reich. This questionnaire was to be put into an envelope inscribed with a seal that read "Nacht und Nebel" and submitted to the Reich Main Security Office (RSHA). This decree remained in effect after Heydrich's death. The exact number of people who vanished in the name of the decree has never been positively established, but it is estimated to be roughly 7,000.

Heydrich (left) at Prague Castle in 1941. To Heydrich's left is Karl Hermann Frank, State Secretary for the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, and Higher SS and Police Leader for Bohemia and Moravia

[edit]

Reichsprotektor of Bohemia & Moravia

On 27 September 1941 Heydrich was appointed Stellvertretender Reichsprotektor in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia (the part of Czechoslovakia incorporated into the Reich on 15 March 1939) and assumed effective government of the territory, as Hitler felt Konstantin von Neurath, Heydrich's predecessor, wasn't draconian enough. (Neurath remained titular Protector until 20 August 1943). Heydrich came to Prague to restore production quotas.

As the governor of Bohemia and Moravia, Heydrich applied "carrot-and-stick" methods. The black market was suppressed, food rations and pensions were increased, and unemployment insurance was established for the first time. Those associated with the resistance movement or the black market were tortured or executed. Under Heydrich, conditions in Prague and the rest of the Czech lands were relatively peaceful and industrial output went up. Because of his success in Prague, Hitler considered making Heydrich the governor of Paris.

Heydrich was, for all intents and purposes, military dictator of Bohemia and Moravia; changes to the government's structure left President Emil Hacha and his cabinet virtually powerless. He often drove alone in a car with an open roof — a show of his confidence in the occupation forces and in the effectiveness of his government. (See Czech resistance to Nazi occupation.)

Only difference is he's part of the military of a country that is so far still the World's only Super Power so no hang man's noose for the General after a war crimes trial. He'll be writing his memoirs and maybe running for President on the Tea Party or Republican ticket.

To bad you can't tell the truth about your boss. But this is the US military and Walking Eagle is his boss.

Harry Truman fired Mc Arther. Mc Arther was right Truman was wrong. We didn't win the war. We just stopped fighting. Results? Vietnam. The start of complete failures and appeasements. We did win in Korea and haven't won a war since. We kick ass for a while then start kissing ass.

The bottom quote in my post above which starts with: "By late 1940, Hitler's armies...." Is from Wikipedia

"Because he uses every opportunity to "throw the military under the bus"" ... care to provide some examples, Therese? Especially since he sent three times the troops to Afghanistan that Bush did, and "In fact, the administration's proposed 2010 budget would increase funding for the Defense Department and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by billions of dollars." (http://mediamatters.org/research/200904070012). In addition, the "FY2011 budget will include a $8.8 billion for military family support programs, a three percent increase over last year. The money will go toward counseling, support and childcare for spouses and families, along with funding for youth programs and spousal career development." (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/01/michelle-obama-announces-new-funding-for-military-families.html). But then, your rant isn't really about any decisions he's made, is it? It's about your decision that you don't like him and nothing he does will change that, regardless of whether it's good or bad.

There is no tolerance in the services....'0', Nada. This guy is gone.

I'm sure some officer in our military force of 500,000 on the U.S. payroll can be found to take the place of this 4 star idiot.

The result of this little schoolyard tiff is that we are going to lose in Afghanistan.

John T.......

Not sure if you read the article or not or the latest updates from the war, but we are headed to a loss and a major change in strategy anyway! Under this General's command! This General is the one who implemented HIS strategy. This General requested an upsurge in troops and got it! Realistically, he is not getting the job done and HE is the Commander and Chief on the ground in Afghanistan! Bottom line is the strategy McChrystal sold the White House sucks and it's results are showing!

Now I agree with another comment above in that the White House did leave him in charge of the war and let him do his thing. But guess what? He wanted the job and it is his! Sure Obama is a figurehead in time of war but so is every President! The last one I am aware of that truly had any military experience was Bush Sr.! If my son was fighting in a war overseas, I DO NOT WANT a non-military man calling the critical shots.

Now as far as Mr. McChrystal, yes, he needs to go no doubt about it. You cannot have someone not to mention his entourage bad mouthing their superiors no matter how good he is or how critical the timing is!

I have seen the ugly impact of this undermining in business. I had a female in my office a while back who came in like gang busters. Pretty good at what she did, sucked up to anyone who could give her a leg up. Unfortunately, she DESTROYED the office from the bottom to the top via the exact same lack of character. All the right places at the right time, but driving knives in the backs of anyone who disagreed behind the scenes at every opportunity! She was a cancer, and so is McChrystal! Not to mention this ain't his first time at bat! He has had several high level opportunities to show his character in a good light but instead chose behind the scenes, slight of hand tactics.

This guy's ego is way to big and frankly he belongs in an Animal House redo movie! He cannot be trusted (again!) and no matter where we are in the war, short term pain is well worth the long term gain! Let's be real.....we have other well trained Generals!! This guy ain't the messiah!

Blue Star - The last one I am aware of that truly had any military experience was Bush Sr.!

How about WWII as an aviator age 18, 1941 till the end of WWII.

PoliticoMan-1635309 - I'm going to go out on a limb and state the President will not accept his resignation... David, you comment was way too long, just couldn't read it bro !!!!

Too bad as I do not believe in errors of ommissions (aka lawyer speak for a lie), white lies, half truths, etc.

And because of this my post was collapsed, oh well, maybe they will ask me to resign too for telling the truth (researched facts, first hand experience, as well as being here for years), then maybe I can come home too. And join the Foreign Security Contractors hired by the Department of State (Diplomatic Immunity) for about $80,000 starting pay per year plus benefits.

Blue Star - This General is the one who implemented HIS strategy. This General requested an upsurge in troops and got it!

Who's Strategy. Obama used General McKiernan's and called it his own after he fired him. And "This General" only got a fraction of what he requested.

errata to post#1.65.

for about $80,000 starting pay per year plus benefits.

left out a 0, $800,000 starting pay per year plus benefits.

Why has McChrystal continually pushed the envelope----'wimps in the White House?' Even if he left the utterances to the subordinates on his staff, his silence & having full knowledge of their snide remarks, speaks volumes. I do not understand why a 'disciplined' military man who has demonstrated so much devotion to his country for so many years, would stoop so low. Has his elevated status gone to his head? Ah, the ego at work!

It is about time that someone called Hussein Obama out for his destruction of American and disregard for the rights and safety of the American People. B O needs to resign that man is destroying this country. Keep McCrystal and get rid of the Ego in the White House.

I have never read so many posts where writers have demonstrated such sheer contempt for President Obama. This is exactly the same thing that has gotten McChrystal into hot water. What a pathetic bunch to hide behind your pseudonyms and do nothing more than spew hateful and spiteful garbage at others. What made all of you so angry at Obama, what did he ever do to any of you, other than becoming the President of the United States?

Can we somehow fire BO in all this? He's supposed to work for us, isn't he?

The man is only good if He can take orders from His Superiors!!! If all the Military did what he did we have never won any war... There is no one man that can win it by themselves...

nothing to be alarmed about; COIN efforts just went haywire..the glitch just went bitch, all will be okay in due time..operation Simpson just went overboard, what the hell.........

IMKO2, Yeah, and if the congress kept it's nose out of Vietnam, we'd have won that war. If Truman didn't pull McArthur's chain, there'd be no north and south Korea today. We'd have had it out with the Chinese 60 years ago. This president's pitch was "He'd bring the boys home" Has he done it? Is he anywhere near close to doing now or even closer than he was before? One guy said it earlier, " If you want the straight poop, you ask the military. If you want BS, you ask a politician"? Who set it up for the General to talk to Rolling Stone anyway? Wrong format for the military in the first place?

Biden? I recall him as being a court jester in Alice and Wonderland or something like that. Barry's shortcomings is his lack of experience at being corrupt, if we get rid of him look what we have, a corrupt politician with years of experience at being corrupt. We have voted ourselves into a no win situation till 2012.

McC on the other hand made a fatal mistake in thinking he had any free speech rights nothing more or nothing less. His frustrations are understandable, you can't win a war without some degree of collateral damage, especially against an enemy that uses children and non-combatants for shields. The Taliban and the insurgents will win because their hands are not tied by any rules of engagement. They are not in uniform and can easily meld into the general population and remain undetected and wait for targets of opportunity. If we as a people do not have the stomach and/or conviction to win this war by inflicting maximum damage and being more ruthless than our enemy, we need to get out now. We wouldn't do it in V.N., the Russians couldn't do it in Afg. and we can't do in here either, because we don't have the constitution nor the will to win here at home. You don't win a war by appeasing the enemy, you only increase his determination to kill you. McC has his hands tied by a "politically correct" know nothing wanna be whose closest confrontation with personal jeopardy came as a political organizer that may have been threatened by a woman's purse. McC has come to understand that and he is looking for a way out. He found it and I don't blame him. Meanwhile our troops are still over there in harms way with their hands tied. This isn't a war on terrorism, nor is it a war against oppression, it has become a un-win-able occupation that is costing billions of dollars and countless lives of sons and daughters. After all is said and done we could probably learn something from the Taliban and the insurgents and that is "how to win a war against a superior force with a limited budget and inferior weaponry."

Simper-Fi circa '64-'72 USMC.

So Obama fires McChrystal in a pique of anger, and sets back the counterinsurgency by a year, as his replacement takes time to "get up to speed" - just in time to meet Obama's arbitrary date to start withdrawing our troops.

Our Amateur in Chief would cut off his nose to spite his face - sort of like the old Al Capone, but then Obama did learn his politics in Chicago.

It's obvious that he has to go. I suspect that he probably really wants to go. I'm sure that it is not easy putting up with this administration. Things like taking seven months to make a decision on troops is ridiculous. There is probably a lot more crap going on that we are not aware of. The question is who will replace him? It's not just a matter of finding someone competent (which probably doesn't matter to Obama), but someone who is willing to put up with an anti-American administration. Not an easy task at that. But, one thing for sure, it isn't a matter of getting someone to accept the offer. This isn't like sports trying to find a manager. When someone gets selected, he either does it or retires. You don't say no the your "commander" and get away with it.

I certainly understand McChrystal and his men talking the way they did. Heck, they were merely being polite. But, they knew there was a time and place for everything. And, they are only human.

McChrystal should be canned. This is anougher case of someone who can't get the job done so he blames someone else. Where is his discipline. He can't even control his mouth. He is a national embarrasment.

Noelle-588175 - What made all of you so angry at Obama, what did he ever do to any of you, other than becoming the President of the United States?

How about reading post#1.17 instead of automatically dismissing it as "sheer contempt for President Obama."

Those are ACTIONS not just words that he has done.

howitzer8, I explained that in detail at post#1.17.

But you don't want to hear the truth. See no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil.

An experienced progressive intelligent military minded man has resigned. Such a victory for America.

So I take it you have a problem with the fact he realized he made a mistake a person of his rank does not make and did the right thing in retiring? You do understand this is his second offense right. Think about it. If one of his people went and gave a story to the press that was critical of his thinking he would have them court martialed.
You see the military only thinks about a military solution. Presidents have to think about a lot more things and sometimes there will be disagreements which can be voiced through the proper channels not the media. This was a back handed attempt to sway public opinion and to lay blame where no blame was warranted.
Truman fired McArthur and we survived. This is a lesser General who is now free to make any comments he may so choose as a civilian.

Kinda dumb to have anyone around you who will tell the truth - fire the man for being honest - America, land of the free, home of the brave - what?

[quote]Edward Bruce Williams

From the article, he is an intelligent cowboy out of his depth.

As far as leadership, his soldiers don't want to follow him. As a policy maker, no one believes his plans will work. As a politician, he supports the crook Karisa and insults his Commander in Chief.

OUT ASAP[/quote]

His soldiers don't want to follow him? How do you know this, I think you are talking out of your a** and shouldn't say things you have no clue about.

Everyone saying obama has given the general all these troops and funding, lets just slow down a bit. Gates just said last week the surge has barely begun. And this surge number was not what was asked for. After taking six months to review it, Obama shorted him on the troop numbers the general requested. And these forces are not even in theatre yet. To top it off, after taking so long to make a decision, he sets an arbitrary deadline for withdrawl, giving the general one year to "win". Obama is setting the stage to get out regardless of the blood spent, or repercussions. Didn't we leave afghanistan once before folks. where did that get us? One of the first things Obama did was attack Karzai as untrustworthy. He is setting the general up to fail, and the general knows it.

You people have no Idea what is about to happen to our troops If this general leaves many will die because the commander and cheif is a WIMP best thing for your commander and cheif to do now get our troops out now and try and save as many as he can! obama has no respect for the general or our troops, how many more must die for you people do something to get that WIMP out of the white house and the rest of his cronies. This is just like Viet Nam another police action thing run by a bunch of power hungry and money hungry WIMPS How many mothers and fathers and wifes must bury their love ones before you act???????

Punitive Articles of the UCMJ Article 88—Contempt toward officials

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Explanation
Giving broad circulation to a written publication containing contemptuous words of the kind made punishable by this article, or the utterance of contemptuous words of this kind in the presence of military subordinates, aggravates the offense. The truth or falsity of the statements is immaterial.

Maximum punishment.

Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year

Anything with regards to his comments are well explained here. I feel that he should submit his resignation and retire. At his rank and position he should have held himself to higher standards. We lose a fine General, for he knew not when to keep his mouth shut.

This opens the way to select Jesse Jackson to run the frickin' war!

Yes...We can Afford to fire ObamaNation...He has the midas touch, everything he touches turns to Crap!!!!!!!!!!!

The picture of Obama lecturing the general says it all to me. We are doomed because we are being led by the truly blind.

Noelle: It really isn't hard to understand why people don't like Obama. There are two aspects to this. First of all is the way the libs and media treated Bush for 8 years. The constantly called him a liar and ridiculed him and lied about the state of the economy while he was President. The antagonism towards him was not really based on any policies that he had, it was based on the fact that he was a Republican and that he talked funny. Policy wise, he gave the dems more of what they wanted with all the domestic spending and not defending the border.

The second part of this anger towards Obama is policy. Those who understand freedom and the part that capitalism plays in making our country great are angrier than you know what because they see Obama, Pelosi and Reid as destroying the country. We are a proud and unique nation. We have been the melting pot of the world where people have seen us as the land of opportunity. Between Obama apologizing around the world for our greatness and his apparent utter contempt for America's role in the world, it doesn't take a genius to figure out why people are upset at his efforts to "remake" America. His "remake" is synonymous with "destroying" America. The total disconnect between his words and policies are readily apparent.

The short of it all is that Americans hate and fear this guy's POLICIES! They run counter to every that has made America great and we just hope we can survive long enough to get rid of him and get people in power who believe in the country that we have been.

"He has submitted his resignation. Buh-bye!"

Fire him, have him resign.... ?

General Patton during WW][ was just as bad..probably worse... but he got the JOB done.

Should the general be disciplined? Sure. But... I guess we should turn-tail in Afgan...right now.

Then again... if you do a WAR you do WAR... Has the Administration given the Military the means to succeed? NO. Obama and the other 9 year olds don't know how to run a War. (e.g. Cluster@!$%#ed Administration).

The short answer is chairman Obama can not afford to fire McChrystal but that won’t stop him from doing so. We have elected someone to the office of president who has zero management experience, precious little other experience and is driven by Marxist ideology. In fact, his only demonstrated experience has been giving good speeches provided someone writes them for him and presents them to him via teleprompter.

Dr. G : Simper-Fi circa '64-'72 USMC. By the dates of your service, you were probable neck deep in the Tet offensive. That was some nasty stuff to go through. Welcome home! You didn't hide behind a college deferrment like Clinton.

John Toradze , Therese in NV , MtMike-571674

total agreement with your post.

Ignore BJ what ever : he is a died in the wool Obama sheeple. (and yes I meant DIED not dyed) him and sheeple cannot be changed or educated no matter how rational and clear thinking you may be.

God bless America and may He protect us from the current elected leaders who know not what they do.

FYI, if the general actually told the truth then he would not have been fired. You Right Wing Wackos are absolutely degenerating this into fashion talk. The general is to report to his 3 superiors. He did not do so. Instead, he chose to talk to a reporter first...

Duh! The general lied, and covered up the truth, because his neck was on the line. That is why he can not and should not trusted in the future.

I don't remember a time, where the government reports to a general. The military reports to our civil leaders. This is not a military nation. The general has been in Iraq too long (trying to fashion himself after Saddam).

If he doesn't fire McChrystal then McChrystal walks away with his pride and honor. He needs to be brought down to size. Military leaders like this man are exactly why the civil government needs to be in control of the government.

Why?

He's just relaying the general disdain, disrespect, and contempt the bulk of our forces has for their Commander in Chief. This guy is a joke, an inexperienced ideologically divisive leader. He's a threat to our troops all the while he wont secure our own border as a tool for his political gains, despite the fact that human beings are getting raped, murdered and trafficked etc. All in the name of politics. A power hungry ego maniac. Apparently if you don't agree with him 100% you get "summoned"... wow... don't be getting all dictatory Barry Soetoro.

Lemme guess, freedom of speech right lefties? Unless it's against your glory boy... got it.

What do you two know? You don't even understand the meaning of civics.

There is a big difference between saying what you think and refusing orders.

MacArthur was fired because he disobeyed a direct order. That has nothing to do with venting, or telling it like it is.

You two seem to think that if you just put a gag in a man's mouth that changes his mind. Bluntly, I think you two are despicable and you have no business saying anything to anyone.

As decent and competent this general is and as incompetent and despicable as this president is, McCrystal has to go. He needs to say what needs saying, but an active duty commissioned officer cannot be let say such things about his civilian commander-in-chief. Mr. McCrystal can write a book, become a talking head, run for office. General McCrystal cannot do any such things.

Sure he can. All he needs is a president who isn't a wimp.

See, only a wimp reacts to straight talk that's correct by firing the speaker because he thinks it makes him look weak. That is how he shows he's weak.

The General violated the UCMJ. That's too bad, but it could get him fired.

Of course, his boss ignores military advice in favor of political advice, so who is the real problem here.

Good military leaders are quite often not politicians and vice versa. Too bad politics trumps knowledge again.

Look what happened to Patton....he said what he thought... a brilliant tank general...

Again I ask, what would McChrystal do if one of his subordinates spoke about him publicly in such a way??

And does everyone need to be reminded of President Eisenhower and his warning about the military/industrial complex? There needs to be a civilian government in charge of the army. I believe we have several examples of the military being in charge of their own decisions. North Korea, China, Russia, need I go on?

Dear Mr President,

When (not if) your replace General McChrystal for violations of the UCMJ, how about earning your Ranger Tab (Qualification), and Special Forces Tab (Qualification) then leading a Joint Special Warfare Command and Task Force in War. Please notice I stated EARN, as not to be confused with Entitlement. And playing Basketball or Golf (or any Sports Team) is not a valid example nor credit as a Special Warfare Team. By the way have VP Biden 6 time draft dodger (5 student, one medical brought from a known anti War doctor for $20,000 reason he lost his Presidential Campaigns) do the same. This would be in compliance with the Basic Leadership Principle of Lead from the Front as the Commander In Chief (like when this first started with George Washington).

This is after you are Impeached for Treason. For your US Aid to Hamas a known enemy of the United States of America and its Citizens as stated by YOUR Executive Branch Intelligence Agency. First $900 Million USDs as warned that the Hamas Warlords would seize the US Aid from the Palestinians. And now another $400 Million USDs. As even the US Supreme Court, June 2010, considers this similar to Aiding and Abetting the enemy.

stspecialk - Again I ask, what would McChrystal do if one of his subordinates spoke about him publicly in such a way??

He would give them a General Officer Letter of Reprimand. And as punishment send them up into the "Roof Of the World" to conduct Asymmetric Mountain Warfare for years. And if that subordinate was successful then the General Officer Letter of Reprimand would be torn up, meaning that subordinate was right and he was wrong.

delherren- And does everyone need to be reminded of President Eisenhower and his warning about the military/industrial complex?

Yes, and you forget who bailed President FDR out of the Great Depression while US Citizens were starving to death after his "New Deals to the American People" failed to get the US out of the Great Depression. As currently it is ONLY the US Civilians that are benefiting from the Wars. You can cry US Corporations and US Contractors all you want, they hire YOU (US Civilians). And do not say squat about the US Labor Unions and the start of the US Middle Class as their activities were suspended by President FDR during WWII, and even had strikers machinegunned by US Military Police.

As you conviently forget the US Military is sent in as a last resort to clean up the US Politicians failures. Irregardless of Party.

Problem is that Bush used the military as his first and only option. Now we are stuck with his mess.

stspecialk - by the comments from the staff in the article, he didn't have a worry, they were pretty much on the same page.

stspecialk if your comment #2.11 refers to Iraq then we are somewhat in agreement. I did not agree with the timing of our move into Iraq even if the removal of Saddam was (and is) a good thing it could have waited. As far as Afghanistan goes the moment a nation fails to use force to remove the enablers and principles of an attack on its' own soil that SLAUGHTERED 3000 innocent people and nearly crippled an already weakened (by the tech bubble bursting) economy is the second it ceases to be a viable nation! The Islamists only understand force and in that respect "W" was talking in their own language when he sent forces in to route the Taliban and put the hurt on al-Qaida!

Actually, it might be YOU that needs an education in Civics. While you people chastise Military Members for exercising their First Amendment Right to freedom of speech, you expect them to uphold those rights for you and you alone. While there are UCMJ articles covering such things as insubordinate conduct, and conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline, You expect these soldiers who basically have then NO SAY to be sent off to slaughter for some moron who hasn't spent one day crappin out an MRE who can't even be bothered to protect the borders of this country. IN HIS OATH, he is sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States, act as it's Chief Executive and ENFORCE ITS LAWS, when he clearly can not even do that.

Do you need reminding of the Auntie who had a deportation order (pre election), who remarkably now has US Citizenship POST ELECTION? Or perhaps you need reminding of "My Administration will not ENFORCE the laws for the use of Marijuana", or perhaps you need to be reminded of the continued influx of illegal immigrants to which the CURRENT LAWS are not being enforced by this administration. Perhaps you might need to be reminded that Mr Obama's campaign PROMISE (his VERBAL CONTRACT with the VOTERS) "I will have a visible administration, Devoid of the Business as Usual, backdoor/backroom politics", that have apparently continued on with sending Mr Clinton to convince candidates to drop out of an election race with the promise of a "job".

Perhaps you need to have the term FRAUD defined for you, from Black's Law Dictionary. FRAUD is a HIGH CRIME and Misdemeanor (i.e. impeachable offense). Maybe you need to be told what Election Rigging is, ANOTHER FEDERAL OFFENSE. Yeah let's talk about CIVICS.

Maybe this country needs to be reminded of the Viet Nam war, how the body bags filled because POLITICIANS monkey farted around with their policies. HOW ABOUT MR OBAMAS policy of not engaging the enemy if civilians could be indangered? YOU TELL ME how a soldier can engage an enemy in an URBAN setting without a civilian being around. HOW ABOUT you look at the "UNIFORMS" of these Taliban and the Al QAEDA forces wear? Certainly looks like everyone else. HIS responsibility is to the protection of OUR CITIZENS. Since when are our soldiers NOT CITIZENS? I believe HE used the term ACCEPTABLE RISKS to us. REALLY? I am a retired war vet, and not being able to fight back is NOT ACCEPTABLE to anyone.

These soldiers are tired of politicians bullsh1tting around, with one hand up their A$S and the other tied around their b@lls, more worried about "their re-electability" than their damned responsibility. And while we are at it, perhaps we should define the word "CORRUPTION", that is having a politician vote or influenced by a CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION. Certainly the words CONFLICT OF INTEREST, should mean something. But then again, CIVICS only applies to soldiers.

I guess maybe if YOU spent more time being CIVIC minded, you would never voice a disparaging remark against your boss, your congressman, or anyone who has ever p1ssed you off for what ever reason, since being CIVIC is acting in a CIVIL MANNER without doing anything to create a sense of disorder.

But then again, maybe you don't realize you are a sheep being tended to by a sheppard, who only cares how much money he can get for you at the market...

stspecialk:

NEWSFLASH!!! Bush is no longer President....maybe on this one you should pull out the "race card". If you alternate your excuses you won't look so desperate and uninformed.

Military Eatablishment needs a lesson in basic Civics.

The military needs to kick ass, and win wars.

Delherren,

Never have I heard such ridiculous logic! The Military is not under civilian control. The military is under the control of the Commander and Chief; i.e. Barack Obama. That is where the problem lies. You cannot have a Commander and Chief of the Military, who doesn't understand the fundamentals of military strategy. We live in dangerous times, America cannot afford to relinquish experienced military leadership such as General McChrystal; simply because the general has the audacity to call into question Barack Obama's military strategy practices.

Furthermore, just because Barack Obama is President of the United States and Commander and Chief of the Military, does not place him above Constitutional Law. As a top military advisor, General McChrystal, has every right to question Barack Obama's actions; if those actions directly place American Soil, American Citizen's or American Military Personnel in harm's way. By doing so, President Obama is not fulfilling the duties of office. Perhaps it's not the military that needs a lesson in basic Civics; it sounds to me as if you need a lesson in Constitutional Law regarding Presidential duties......

david - When Bush gave money to Hamas, did you call for HIS impeachment?

Rodentrack - david - When Bush gave money to Hamas, did you call for HIS impeachment?

At that time the money to Hamas was demanded to be given to Hamas by Senator Clinton.

And prior to this Hamas was not identified as a Terrorist Organization:

Terrorist Safe Havens: Strategies, Tactics, Tools for Disrupting or Eliminating Safe Havens

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/crt/2007/104103.htm

with this more than likely developed by Bush (41 former director of CIA) to help Bush (43)

Those in the military do not have absolute freedom of speech:

From the UCMJ...

"888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

889. ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER

Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct

stspecialk - Problem is that Bush used the military as his first and only option. Now we are stuck with his mess.

Nope.

Iraq. 1980s, US Military Training Teams to Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars. US Military POMCUS Stocks at Germany shipped to Iraqis Military.

1998. H.R.4655, as demanded by President Clinton State of the Union Address that first used the term Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). H.R.4655 demanded the US Military overthrow the Iraqis President and Iraqis Parlementary Government (aka "Regime Change" Act (Law)) to Liberate the Iraqis People (aka "Iraqis Liberation" Act (Law)). This Law, Declaration of War Current War At Iraq, was not funded by US Congress due to the demanded cut to the bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military. This Law was funded pre 9/11 2001 by Congress.

Currently a UN Mission.

Afghanistan: 1980s, US Military Training Teams sent from Germany to Pakistan, as asset to the Agency. As demanded by Senator Charles Wilson Democrat Texas after visiting the Afghan Refugees at Pakistan.

Currently a UN Mission.

But of course you would have known some of that if you did not collapse post#1.17 so that others would not know the truth.

You are of course referring to Barrack Hussein Obama who cannot pull his head out!! God help this country for the supreme error of electing the Ego in Chief.

Just as a side note to all the Barracks Lawyers waving around Article 89 Disrespect to a Superior Commissioned Officer. You have to be commissioned, i.e. the fraud in the white house is not commissioned, otherwise, the UCMJ would apply to him as well. As you may recall, BILL "I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN" Clinton, couldn't be called to task for his adultry, an UCMJ OFFENSE MORE SERIOUS than Disrespect, because he is a civilian and NOT COMMISSIONED.

Also, mind you, if any of you geniuses take the time to actually read the UCMJ, you will find that ANYTHING someone doesn't like is an OFFENSE punishable under article 134 the General Article, because they can hang the ole "conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline" sign on it. Certainly farting in church is worthy of a courts martial to a military priest, but it's not prejudicial to good order and discipline to be a HOMOSEXUAL, which by all accounts degrades the morale of soldiers, unless of course you are the one spit shining boots, if you get my drift.

And let's not forget the ole Article 92, dereliction to duty, that if MR "Falling Asleep behind the curtain of the Rio Grande" Obama, actually did his duty to enforce our TERRITORIAL RIGHTS and stopped his Placating of Foreign Leaders who Flood this Country with their "so happy to stay in their own country" citizens, perhaps the Article 89 horsecrap might bear some weight. But since, THIS CiC can apparently criticize HIS BOSS, the American VOTERS who pushed for the ARIZONA IMMIGRATION LAW, then perhaps he needs to have his as$ SUMMONED before the American Public and EXPLAIN his UNPATRIOTIC STANCE in permitting a FOREIGN LEADER dictate AMERICAN IMMIGRATION POLICY.

Perhaps, people need to realize, the US CONSTITUTION, The Articles of Confederation, and Our Declaration of Independance state, "The POWER of the Government RESTS in the Hands of the GOVERNED", meaning WE ARE HIS BOSS, and this Boss says "Barack, BUCK UP BUTTER CUP. Put away your verbal TOMMY GUN, this isn't Chi Town, YOU CAN NOT DEMAND a 20 Billion Dollar ESCROW ACCT from this General for insuating you are EMPTY HEADED when it comes to MILITARY TACTICS and NEEDS." Perhaps you can give a giggle like you did with Joe "F Bomb" Biden, your little cronie and just tell him be more careful. (Mind you, perhaps you should take a strong look at what was said, and call it "constructive criticism", which apparently escapes your Harvard Law mind).

Yes, I have little respect for you, but I hold a great deal of respect for that Office you hold. Unfortunately, you are not the man for that job, since apparently it escapes you that your FIRST RESPONSIBILITY is to the SECURITY OF THIS NATION, not to your placating Foreign Leaders who don't ming the Billions we send them in aide, but criticize us at every turn, OR even your "cozy relationships" with lobbyists, campaign financiers, and corporate donors, so you can continue to have your mail delivered to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. One might see that as CORRUPTION, and not so incidental as your bruised EGO.

Actually, it might be YOU that needs an education in Civics. While you people chastise Military Members for exercising their First Amendment Right to freedom of speech,

How stupid!

Both are categorized as insubordination and are punishable by court martial. Next stupid comment was something about first amendment rights. having been in the military I can tell you for a fact that is left at the door when you walk in.

Having Served 21 years MYSELF, I know you are not expected to exercise the rights you are supposed to be defending. That is called an OXYMORON. However, according to this ADMINISTRATION it is OK to speak your mind in the military, SO LONG AS it furthers HIS AGENDA. THAT IS MY POINT.

And you having served, don't tell me you have NEVER EVER said something disparaging about one of your supervisors, because let's face it, everyone has. The real issue at the end of all this debate, is not what was said, but about whom it was said. The leftist liberal Demoncrats are all up in arms because its poor poor illegal alien loving Barack. When it was Repukakin Georgey Porgey Pudding and Pie, it was all good. That is called a DOUBLE STANDARD and Hypocricy, but then again, what do you expect from the leader of "MY administration will be transparent, no more normal Washington backroom politics", when clearly Sestak would disagree... But then again, we need to cut ole big ears a break because he spent tax payer dollars to Arm Twist Law Makers to support CLINTABAMA Care, when clearly MOST AMERICANS, HIS BOSS, are not pleased, or you might be talking about how it's unfair to our supposed "LEADER OF THE COUNTRY" to bad mouth a governor of a state in His constituency who has repeatedly asked for federal assistance to SECURE OUR BORDERS. But he couldn't do that while he had an ILLEGAL ALIEN AUNT with Deportation Orders in hand until the system could be "chided".

And before you or anyone asks, I don't care what Political Party a Corrupt, Self-Serving Politican comes from. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, I don't call it a bird for Political Correctness, so as not to p1ss off a chicken I want to vote for me.

So let's talk about fair. It isn't like he disclosed Op Sec (like Barack), made an Unpatriotic, Anti-American Stance about Securing our Borders, or even attempted to Destroy the Morale of the Soldiers executing the war. He "chided" the establishment through "transparent means, contrary to Normal Washington Backroom deals", which attempts to provide OUR Sons and Daughters, Brothers and Sisters the means they need to Win on the field of combat.

Why not just give em all straws and a wad of paper so they don't accidentally hurt the enemy...

When someone selects you to run something, then continually undermines, understaffs and underfunds you, you have a right to be a little pissed. I'm surprised Mac stayed as long as he did. You're right about the military being under civilian control. That's why we haven't won a war since before Korea!

You cannot win a war with politics. You win a war by getting the enemy to submit. We have not done that since WWII, and we will continue to waste our kids lives if we don't figure out how to either beat the enemy into submission, or just turn our cheeks every time someone slaps us down.

Will the Watcher (##2.14) It was a pleasure to read your well written post after reading all the sheeple's comments.

Maybe the entire military should retire with him then?!

Oh, for god's sake. Clearly you haven't ever had responsibility for getting anything done.

The problem is Obama's (and I voted for him) not MacChrystal's. Obama doesn't know how to lead, he knows how to do photo ops, give speeches and give orders. The whole White House bunch, that's all they know. They haven't given MacChrystal 1/10th the consideration that he gives to privates in his army.

It's not MacChrystal's Army, it's Obama's. The President is over the military, period.

Don't like it, move to another (3rd world) country UnAmerican POS.

I think the point is- McCrystal shouldn't hold his position as if he is the only person capable. Somehow making him 'unfirable'.

That's just ridiculous. In fact, I think its safe to say, any dumbell who's happy to eat a meal at Jack-in-the-Box couldn't possibly hold a monopoly on intellect of any kind.

If McCrystal keeps his job- it would only support the criticism that Obama is a weak leader.

Fella, I ran an office in a rough part of the world and I know all about what you only pretend to have a clue about.

In that 3rd world you talk about, presidents and dictators for life shoot anyone who breathes the slightest hint of backtalk. Guess what? That results in coups and insurrection.

Leaders listen, just like Stanley does with his men. He lets them talk, then goes out in the field and risks his life to show them why they need to do it his way.

In the USA, we let people speak their mind and we value that. If you don't like that, then you move to a 3rd world dictatorship.

tompca, do you really need to call someone names? Seriously, it makes you look like a spoiled 8 year old or a leftist. I can never tell the difference between those two.

Just because someone is president doesn't mean they are qualified to be Commander-In-Chief. One of the requirements to be president should be that the candidate have a military background.

I'd hate to think McChrystal is the only person capable of handling the job.

The same has been, and should be, said about Obama. To think that Obvama knows more about military operations thatn a special ops general is ludicrous. If Obama would listen to knowledgeable people, he would look smarter. He doesn't so he doesn't.

The whole idea that there is a shortage of people willing and able to fill positions in the top of industry and the military is bogus. If you advertised his job I predict that you would receive hundreds of good resumes. I'll bet there is no shortage of people willing to accept the millions of dollars and the responsibility of head of BP and probably do a much better job.

As a member of the military and a subordinate of the Commander in Chief he had no right to publicly criticise his superior. If he had spoken directly to his superior this would be an entirely different situation. But, the fact is he did this publicly which is against military code.

Leaders listen, just like Stanley does with his men. He lets them talk, then goes out in the field and risks his life to show them why they need to do it his way.

John Toradze - An excellent precept, but one which has little to do with what just transpired in the media. General McChrystal, did not come to the White House and express a contradictory opinion directly to the president, he publicly disrespected him, which, regardless of Obama's faults, is both unprofessional and counterproductive.

There are many ways to voice a dissenting voice to your boss. This was not a good one.

Ashamed in California;

Feel free to get the tea bagging wing nuts to offer a Constitutional Amendment to require future Presidents to have a military background. That's how they always do it in Fascist and Communist countries.

The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters, according to the principles laid out by our Founding Fathers in the Constitution. Anyone who is unpatriotic enough to criticize our Commander in Chief during wartime needs to move to some third world country where a military coup every 6 months is the norm.

Russell it all depends upon the situation. When people figure the position is a raw deal or impossible to win, they will not want it. In the military, someone could get the position regardless of how they feel about it.

Exactly, dman. As I said above Gen. McCrystal may well be right on every point of contention but he didn't become a General Officer without knowing everything there is to know about the UCMJ and proper procedures. He has every right to voice his opinion in the proper setting but a Rolling Stone article? I don't think so.

MarineVet - the term Commander in Chief started after General George Washington. With General George Washington becoming President after the War of Independence was won. And the US today is not some Fascist and Communist country (yet).

I'll criticize our Commander in Chief all day long (for one thing we haven't officially been at war since WWII) and I'd love to see anyone "move me to a third world country" Sea side animal doctor! When I return to the service it will mean a different set of rules but in the present when the soldiers I trained and served with will soon be on their way to Afghanistan I'd be a lesser man if I didn't speak out about the lack of leadership and incompetence shown by our current President regarding Afghanistan in particular Rules Of Engagement that tie one hand behind our backs !!!

Mixman, please explain how you know how the entire U.S. military has disdain for President Obama. Have you spoken with them? Have you spoken with my daughter, who proudly serves in the U.S. Air Force under President Obama, or her troops, whom, for the most part, have a great deal of respect for President Obama?

Do you and the rest of the Obama-haters simply sit in your mother's basements in your ratty robes and fuzzy slippers, munching on Cheetos and slugging Mt. Dew have any clue what goes on in the real world, or do you just listen to Limbaugh and get your information from Faux Noise? Yeah, I thought so.

Suzi Laughlin - I know what is happening here for years. And it is not a pretty picture like Bagram AFB. I would like a Burger King Whopper too. Maybe some airconditioning (not bullet holes) or central heating during the near arctic winters up here in the mountains (mount everest is part of this chain). By the way it is that time of the year to stay away from the streams and rivers. A while ago a USN SEAL got killed in a flash flood.

You might want to talk to the USAF Special Operations Wing (actual combatants) about the effects of the April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts. And unlike the actual piece of paper those on the list were not the only things cut. As in some cases money was shifted around (with approval of US Congress, for their pet projects (jobs in their States).

But you would know part of that if my post at #1.17 was not collapsed. By people that do not want you to know the truth.

Actually Tompca, the military is NOT Osama Bin Obama's, the military belongs to the country, funded by YOURS and MINE tax payer dollars. Therefore, that military is OUR INVESTMENT. The guns they carry, the bombs they drop, the planes and ships they use, All OURS. Try reading the US Constitution and the Articles of Confederation (which came first - and served as the document by which the Constitution was drafted), that states "Article 8 - All charges of war and all other expenses shall be incurred for the common defense or general welfare and allowed by the US in Congress Assembled, shall be defrayed out of a common treasury which shall be supplied by the states in proportion to the value of all land within each state, granted or surveyed for any person...The taxes for paying for that portion shall be laid and levied by the authority and direction of the legislatures of the states..." Therefore, our taxes, OUR MILITARY.

Secondly, The First Amendment "Congress shall make NO LAW respecting the establishment of religeon, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, or of the Press, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a REDRESS of grievances". The UCMJ, the set of laws enacted by congress specifically for the military MAY NOT abridge the freedom of speech. Where people get the Military can't speak their mind crap comes from "fear mongering" within the ranks under the auspice of Good Order and Discipline. And as you have served, there is NO DENYING fear mongering is prevailant in the military.

In fact, the ONLY WAY to have a citizen's rights "abridged" is upon conviction of crimes against the state (felonies - which usually include loosing your right to fire arms, voting (not like there is any real choices anyhow), or by mental deficiency. But to be honest for someone to be punished for exercising their rights would draw the ACLU and numerous legal challenges, for civil rights violations. Where "exercising your right to free speech" is not so free is when it causes general panic and civil disorder, for example yelling Fire in a crowded room. But certainly, calling the President of the US inept in what ever form, is protected speech (and to me a hell of a lot less offensive than burning a flag).

To be sure though, I have always said you owe your boss some sense of loyalty, at least while he is paying you. But make no mistake, the MILITARY bought and paid for by our tax dollars does not "belong" to any ONE person... They provide the COMMON DEFENSE not the "President's Defense."

Do I think the General was wrong? I think he breached military etiquiette, but his actions are far from criminal...

Heil, Obama!

MarineVet, How can a president be head of the military if he/she doesn't know what it it's all about? Obama has never been a fan of the military. Heck, the majority of those in the House and the Senate in Washington DC have never served in the military.

My brother did (Air Force - served 22 years), my father did (Army - served 2 years), my cousin did (Air Force - served 20 years), a nephew (Air Force) is over in Afghanistan. My husband was a Marine during Beirut. He had buddies get killed in the barracks bombing. He also has ancestors who served in all the wars of this country all the way back to the American Revolution. We have flags all over our house. I have always regretting not serving when I had the chance. I feel I would have benefited from that experience.

By the way, we are not at war. We are in a police action. It takes an act of Congress to declare war and that hasn't happened since World War II. But if you want to split hairs, Bush was bashed repeatedly for starting Afghanistan and Iraq. There were generals who criticized Bush but they were never relieved of their commands. It seems like only Obama can't be criticized for anything he does. Why is that?

Lack of respect.. Perhaps our President should try leading by example. If he wants to be respected perhaps he should stop bowing to every foreign leader who comes his way, and maybe stop apologizing for all of amercia's faults when he is on foreign soil.. If Obama is being disrespected it's because of his own behavior and not the fault of anyone else, not even Bush...

Obama wants respect? All he has to do is call in Stanly and say, "Hey. That was some article. Now what is going on, what have I done wrong, and how do I fix it."

Stanley will tell him and Obama will have his respect and that of every officer in the military after that.

You have to earn respect and Obama wouldn't know respect if it came up and bit him in the rump.

Some of you are clueless with regards to respect in the military. You DO NOT need to earn respect in the military, it comes with the rank. Period!!!

Some of the wing nut tea baggers need to actually read the Constitution and UCMJ before making fools of themselves on these posts.

That isn't the President I perceive. The President can connect with General McChrystal. If I were him, I would come to an understanding with the General to have him complete the job at hand, and when troops pull out of Afghanistan, the General retires. Both would be respected for it and both would continue doing a fine job.

lefttofright----With a bit of research you will find that McChrystal committed the same SNAFU back in Sept. or Oct of 2009. (Voicing his opinions, in public, disrespect of the Commander in Chief, etc.). Obama discussed McChrystal's disrespect on board Air Force One at that time. The President then proceeded to give McChrystal everything he asked for, including allowing the General to implement his COIN strategy. How much more should the President give this guy? There are rules, protocol and decorum required in the Military. General McChrystal has violated all of them, more than once. Giving the air that he is too big to be replaced. That he is the "Man" for the job. He should be fired.

leftofright, the General embarrassed himself, his rank, and his country. He should at the least be demoted.

stspecialk - there are two respects, one you get because of your rank, and one because you earned it. They are not equal and the one you want is the one you earned.

I suggest you review video of past presidents how honor guards salute and present themselves for the president. After study, you will notice the ones they respected and the ones they didn't.

stspecialk - Some of you are clueless with regards to respect in the military. You DO NOT need to earn respect in the military, it comes with the rank. Period!!!

You are so full of it. You sound just like those "Gentlemen and Officers" of the British Military as mocked by Bernard Cornwell's books Sharpe's Rifles.

Dave-661352 - The President then proceeded to give McChrystal everything he asked for, including allowing the General to implement his COIN strategy.

NOPE he gave him a percentage of the wrong kind of US Military (Conventional Warfare not Asymmetric Warfare) to get the job done.

So if you were a soldier and I was your commander and cheif and I told you to jump off a bridge? and dont back talk me I"M YOUR COMMANDER AND CHEIF DUHHHHH

Well, historically, Kandahar has been the "heart of Afghanistan". The loss of Afghanistan is always preceded by losing Kandahar.

Bin Hidin' has done nothing but cower in a cave like the pu$$y he is for the past 8 and a half years!! He and his #2 (who really is a #2) make their little videos threatening folks but in reality neither one of them could fight their way out of a wet paper bag!!

No. Keep him. Men who speak the truth are worth their weight a million times in gold.

The men you have to worry about are the polite ones who sneak around, lie and come at you from the back.

Keep MacChrystal.

John, as a military officer he had absolutely no right to publicly speak of a superior in such a way. Fact!!

John doesn't care about the UCMJ or the Constitution. He just wants to pimp for the buffoon segment of the tea baggers.

John Toradze - No. Keep him. Men who speak the truth are worth their weight a million times in gold. The men you have to worry about are the polite ones who sneak around, lie and come at you from the back. Keep MacChrystal.

Sorry by Law of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice he has to resign his Command. Which is laughable to even the Afghans as we say we defend Freedom and the US Constitution and yet we do not even have any First Amendment Rights nor many US Constitutional Rights.

Meaning this War is lost and I can come home also, after all these years.

As Jeff-299070 stated

I will give him credit though, he wants to speak truth before folly. Let him go, but remember he warned us.

Just like General McKiernan before him. Who also got fired by this no clue President and his Political Appointees, Interns and SESs with no US Military Experience at the Pentagon. By the way McChrystal's and McKiernan's experience is not some thing that you can learn out of a book, just like you cannot learn to drive a vehicle or ride a bicycle by reading a book. It takes years of training and years of successful operational experience (if you are not successful gaining your operational experience you are either killed maimed or wounded)

I find it curious that both of them ended up on the firing line at the start of summer. Maybe they figured water skiing was a better bet than trying to lead their men (and women) when crippled by a lack of Presidential leadership and restrictive Rules Of Engagement ??

Fred G. from N.C., Many of us are starting to think the same way. The lowest ranking officers (O-3, and CW2) and NCOs (E-6) that I have are also considering the same. As loss of their lives, their subordinates lives or loss of US Military Career.

Most of us have all kinds of Letters of Reprimand in our Restricted US Military Personnel Records anyway. What are they going to do send us back on Retirement after they bend our dog tags and never recall us again.

Most of us were thinking of working for $300,000 to $900,000 per year with the Foreign Security Contractors that are above the Laws as hired by the Department of State (Diplomatic Immunity).

notfeelingthetingle...you're not good enough to be a pimple on Obama's buthole. You're just a miserable insignificant human being.

AND SO ARE YOU DUH.................................

David 475776----Not to be too picky....Research and see how many Generals were replaced, retired or reassigned by that outstanding Commander and Chief, Bush. Most not for disagreeing with him in public, just for not agreeing with him.

Also, MCChrystal did, I believe, get what he asked for. He was given the men he wanted. The support he wanted. The increase in Seal Teams he wanted. He was allowed to implement his COIN strategy, and most important, he got what he wanted when he saw his plan wasn't working, and he shot his unprofessional mouth off......fired.

Further more..... You with your, presumed vast military experience, must know and realize the military is NOT a democracy. Your complaint of no 1st Amendment rights nor many Constitutional Rights is mute. And who gives a crap what the Afghans find laughable? Perhaps you are in the wrong Country's military.

Yes. Totally. He may not be the only one, but if he gets the boot, morale is not going to improve!

There was no military solution to Vietnam. I'd thought most people learned that a long time ago.

Russell, that's the biggest 'myth' in American history. Had we let the military do their job; the NV were on the verge of asking for peace. Do some research and then come back.

The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters, according to the principles laid out by our Founding Fathers in the Constitution. Anyone who is unpatriotic enough to criticize our Commander in Chief during wartime needs to move to some third world country where a military coup every 6 months is the norm.

Russell, North Vietnam was on it's last legs until the peace rally's and marches took hold. Once they saw the marches, and the marches effect on public opinion, they hung in there. Study all Materials from all sides, just not the first one you fall in love with.

MarineVet The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters

Yes, just not the voters everyone is assuming, try the Electoral College (as defeated by Gerrymandering, and being bought) and NOT Popular Vote (example: Bush (43). As the forefathers thought that the populace was too ignorant and ill informed to decide the highest offices of the Land, President and Vice President. So the Electoral College was established. This also takes into account that back then it took days, months, years for information to disseminate if it ever got there.

John Toradze - Yes. Totally. He may not be the only one, but if he gets the boot, morale is not going to improve!

I already mentioned this at post#6.4.

Also at least General McChrystal and General McKiernan gave authority and responsibility to their subordinates unlike the other Conventional Warfare Generals, that in order for you to change their minds you would have to persuade them to come out of the Green Zone and get shot and wounded before they change their minds, including about their lack of situational awareness outside of the Green Zone, same with the Politicians, Political Appointees, Interns, etc. that stay in their vacation spot (Green Zone). With their Lawyers running around trying to prosecute any Military (US, NATO, ISAF) for any violations including those that they are violating in the Green Zone, like violations of Islamic Laws pertaining to running around naked, dancing, and drunk.

Russell in Maryland - There was no military solution to Vietnam. I'd thought most people learned that a long time ago.

There was and we lost thanks to the US Politicians and the loss of the National Will to Fight. This whole thing would have been different if the USAF (no matter how much I dislike the USAF Conventional Warfare Forces and really appreciate their Special Warfare Forces) was allowed to bomb the crapola out of Hanoi and the entire Ho Chi Minn Trail (including in Cambodia and Laos, and yes we knew and the NVA knew.). This again must have all been before your time.

Also the most important US Military Conventional Warfare Forces sent to fight a Asymmetric War.

Fock the Asymmetrical War ..... Afganistan is so remote, sparsely populated, and desolate ... its the perfect war zone for tactical nukes.

hrmchan - Fock the Asymmetrical War ..... Afganistan is so remote, sparsely populated, and desolate ... its the perfect war zone for tactical nukes.

Most of the tactical nukes were bargined away during SALT and START, back in the day, when I was part of the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF). Those being SADM, MADM, HADM, 8 inch (new and old), Lance warhead, Nike Hercules, Pershing I, Pershing II, GLCM, etc.. I was a Senior Courier Officer/Technical Escort/Air Mission Commander, flying back and forth between Germany and Stateside during the retrogrades. The technology to build these were also destroyed. After the INF I got switched to a different Functional Area (Specialty, Job) since my involvement as a US Military Officer with the "Middle East".

Like I stated before on other newsvine forums these are not caves these are mineshafts cut into solid rock (the mountains). The use of tactical nukes would not even have an effect on most of these mineshafts. The mountains would also minimize the blast areas of the tactical nukes. This would be like attempting to use nuclear weapons to destroy NORAD or the former USSR Ural Mountain Complex. These mineshafts are hundreds of feet under and into the mountains and are thousands of miles long (going into many countries of this mountain range).

Then there are the "fallout" effects. As "enhanced radiation" nuclear weapons are no longer in existance, you would call these "neutron bombs".

This is why some of us that know Farsi with a background in nuclear weapons and missiles know what the Iranians are up to. Solid fuel instant launch three stages similar to a Pershing II with a third stage and no range limiter. This becomes a near orbital weapon, making range irrelevant (uses Earth Rotation). This is similar to what the North Koreans are attempting except they are using liquid fuel, requiring fueling before launch (and not an instant launch). This is why the North Koreans keep saying that they are trying to put a satellite into orbit (the size of a vehicle with the weight of concrete, concrete simulates the weight of a nuclear warhead and GNC (Guidance Navigation and Control)).

You think after getting here years ago that was not my first thought, like using an Earth Penetrator Nuclear Weapon launched by a Pershing II to kill these mineshafts.

Well said my friend

Looks like McChrystal did the setting up. He had this reporter hanging around for a month. The question is why?He was on the outs with so many people maybe he decided on a career change.

I think that MacChrystal had no other way of speaking to the administration. So, he decided to take the risk. He ran his own shop that way. Any enlisted man could (and many did) tell him exactly what they thought in no uncertain terms.

Stanley understood that was valuable. If you don't know what is on a man's mind, you can't try to convince him.

John, there is a huge difference between speaking to your superior about an issue and publicly criticising him. It is against military code, and he should at least lose rank.

I learned a long time ago, that you can force people into rebelling by forcing them into less and less ideal situations. McChrystal voted for Obama. Openly supported Obama. I think McChrystal wants to win, but has recognized and repeately let Obama know he did not have enough. I've read the actual deployments - Obama has not given even the promised amount which was less than McChrystal asked for.

DB Akron - not only that in August of 2009, this Administration sent an Oceanliner of Politicians, Political Appointees, Interns, "Booksmart" Civilian Experts, and Lawyers (to prosecute Military). It was so ridculous that no US Military could get into the bunkers when Bagram Air Force Base was attacked the bunkers were crowded with US Civilians.

It is like I state GET THE US CIVILIANS OUT OF THE COMBAT ZONE, US MILITARY, etc..

YES, that includes the AAFES (PX/BX) US Civilians too, Burger King, Taco Bell, Starbucks, etc..

Like I stated at post#6.6. I guess I should ask them how much they will pay a General Officer like McChrystal, Ranger, Special Forces, former Commander of JSOC, etc..

Barack Hussien Obama .... does that sound American to you? Sure its a set-up. Barack is set on destroying America, the respect and position with hold in the world, and our way of LIFE. Of which was given to us in blood by our sons on foreign soils. McCrystal is no politician, but he protected us and our freedom for 35 years, 10 of which were as him in HARMS WAY carrying a rifle.

We should send McCrystal home and give him a rest and Brooks Brothers suit and we should send our Muslim, Jeremiah Write loving, and Louis Farrakhan following ... President and give him a rifle ... to earn the right to be an American.

Yes ... the man does not salute the flag, or raise his hand to his heart while respecting our Anthem or Pledge of Allegance and don't forget the refusal to wear our American Flag label pin as a Congressman. Born of a Muslim father, raised by a Muslim step father in Indonesia and schooled as a Muslim school as a child. It is not surprising that he has chosen for 20 years and raised his family under the shadows of radicals like Rev. Wright and Louis Farrakhan .... all self admitted. What did he say in public ... "for 20 years, Rev Wright was my family's spiritual leader and teacher...." and what did Michelle say during that rally ... "only now am I proud to be an American" ... uhhh then what were you before, Michelle?

America is in deep crap ! The MUSLIMS have achieved what they have preached from the Koran .... they will destroy us from WITHIN !!!!!!!

Spooky

Nobody should be fired. But the White House should grow up.

Neither of you have any clue of the military code, do you?

Buffoons can't read the Constitution or UCMJ. They are too busy ranting to get educated about issues.

One thing I learned while serving 26+years. And the two men who were responsible for my promotion to MSgt, made their 3rd and 4thStars. You do what is necessary to accomplish the mission. If he was willing to sacrifice his military career, to make his views public, he has my support.

What are you willing to scarifice to support your country??????

We do not know what transpired prior to McChrystal committing political suicide. But I'm willing to bet my retirement pay. That McChrystal used 'ALL AVAILABLE' means to make sure BHO knew his views prior to publicly voicing them........

AC Robertson - That McChrystal used 'ALL AVAILABLE' means to make sure BHO knew his views prior to publicly voicing them........

Just like his predecessor, General McKiernan, before he went public with CBS News.

I do believe that General McKiernan and General McChrystal after attending numerous ceremonies for the premature flights home (of the Killed In Action in flag draped metal coffins) realize that losing is not an option. Unlike some (President Obama's analogy) that think Sports Teams are the same as the US Military "Teams"; that we get to come home, get drunk and party after losing.

The military code—and American democratic traditions—all but demand that he accept the general's resignation of his command.

General Shinseki resigned because of Bush's inept plan on the Afghanistan conflict.

General MacArthur resigned because Truman told him to.

That's the privilege of the Presidency!....and the right thing to do.

Wilberta Berry - The military code—and American democratic traditions—all but demand that he accept the general's resignation of his command.

Republic Traditions (US Constitution), example: "And to the Republic for which it stands". The forefathers believed that a Democracy would lead to mob rule. In accordance with the UCMJ General McChrystal must resign. Like I explained at post#1.17.

General Shinseki resigned because of Bush's inept plan on the Afghanistan conflict.

General Erik Shinseki resigned because of a series of incidents, like the Bankroft Black Berets made in China, resulting in Congress's outrage. I know I attended his wife's memorial service (rare time when I wear my full dress uniform). It was not because of "Bush's inept plan" pertaining to this place.

Wilberta Berry,

All US Military Officers serve at the pleasure of the POTUS. If General McChrystal violated the UCMJ then he will be Court Marshalled and sufferer the consequences.

General Shinseki retired from the Army after 38 years on 11 June 2003 at the end of his four-year term as the 34th Army Chief of Staff. That is 1 and 1/2 years after the US turned the US & UK operations in Afghanistan over to the UN.

Shinsekipublicly clashed with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during the planning of the war in Iraq over how many troops the U.S. would need to keep in Iraq for the postwar occupation of that country.

When the insurgencytook hold in postwar Iraq, Shinseki's comments and their public rejection by the civilian leadership were often cited by those who felt the Bush administration deployed too few troops to Iraq. On November 15, 2006, in testimony before Congress, CENTCOM Commander Gen. John Abizaidsaid that General Shinseki had been correct that more troops were needed.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Shinseki

AC, I might be wrong but isn't "serving at the pleasure" of someone else called "SLAVERY"? Because I kinda thought that problem was resolved with the Civil War. MILITARY OFFICERS and Members serve this country FIRST. My oath of enlistment stated I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION of the US against all Enemies FOREIGN and DOMESTIC. And then it says to obey the orders of the President. SO this OFFICER is doing his JOB. HIS FIRST RESPONSIBILITY is the Defense and not the Ego of some college kid who can't figure out "whose ass to kick" unless someone else tells him.

To any of my other Brothers in Arms who may disagree with my open disdain for the POTUS, UNDERSTAND THIS. Wars are started by Politicians, fought by Soldiers, started by words, solved with OUR BLOOD, and while they sleep, we guard their slumber. Any commander worth his weight, LEADS from the front, the men who are willing to die by his orders, and not hide behind some political favor. MY FIRST AND FOREMOST Duty is to my brothers who provide my blanket of freedom, now that my watch is over. This President has done nothing but disparage the laws of our land, acquiese our national pride to foreign leaders, and Can Not even be bothered to follow tradition in regards to respect for the nations colors or anthem, and we are going to hold the Tip of the Spear responsible for the ineptitude of he that wields it. Perhaps through the open criticism, the POTUS might be just as "prudent and responsible" and step down for his "transgressions" of good order and discipline as well.

Will the Watcher, Agreed, as previously stated post#1.17 and got collapsed by those that do not want to know the truth.

Also our (Officers) Commissioning Certificate is from US Congress (the Repesentatives of the US Citizens).

As far a General McChrystal, he has been the tip of the sword (symbol of US Military Special Operations) for a long time (Operational Experience, surviving).

Many of these posters believe that US Army Rangers becoming US Army Special Forces grow on trees. The fact is that many do not even make it to assessment or the training that follows and are RTUed (Returned To Unit) of origin). It has always been the exception not the rule for any US Special Warfare to ever become Flag Officers (Generals or Admirals). As there is still the concept by the majority of US Military Conventional Warfare Officers that they are "Renegades", "Undesirables", etc. and not higher qualified than they are, since they came from and were previously trained as US Military Conventional Warfare Officers. This is why many of us have Letters of Reprimand from US Military Conventional Warfare Officers when they were our bosses. Sometimes for making them look bad by Leading From the Front (that they would never do, and hide in the bunker), Share the Hardships (in Combat even fighting as a rifleman), Endure the Hardships (be with our men and women under the conditions that they are living), etc.. Many times it would say something stupid on the Letter of Reprimand like "endangering an irreplaceable asset", almost laughing in their face I would scribble on the Letter of Reprimand, "I have properly trained my subordinates to replace me". Generals like McChrystal are a different matter, good luck in replacing him, as now most General Officers know that position is a career killer under this administration (micro managed from D.C.). McKiernan, now McChrystal........next............next........next..........

Will the Watcher and David,

Semantics can get your career killed, but you are correct. Many of us who have served, have had the displeasure of working for those without-a-clue, or worse those willing to sacrifice those below them to further their agenda. When this happens you do your job/mission to the best of your ability and do what is necessary to protect those below you.

Letters of Reprimand come with the title of leader, if you are not willing to accept this, then the problem could be in the mirror. I never worked for a good fit-rep and I have the papers to prove it, but I accomplished the mission. The last CO that 'Fired Me' had fired 5 AMO's, 3 other MSgt's, and my OIC. But he received his 'Squadron of the Year' with doctored maintenance reports.... Ha! Ha!

I'm not a fan of McChrystal, but he has my support. And I'm sure that if he is retired, his command will still do what is required. Because all leaders make sure this will happen if they are not there. Again the allegiance is to the US Constitution and the troops serving under them, not the POTUS.

I am well aware of what my SOG brothers endure, as I had my teeth cut as well. And I had more than my fair share of LoRs for defending the "rights" of my troops as well. All I can say is that war fighting is never easy. I had 9 tours in Uncle Sugar's Sand Box. It amazes me that for a supposed "educated man with ivy league pedigree", he thinks everyone can be friends. IT JUST ISN'T POSSIBLE. The belief that we as the "Defenders of Freedom" can get a people who know nothing of peace (their history spans 1000s of years, always in Jihad) to all of a sudden grow a love for life. To get a sudden sense of Tolerance. Hell you can't even say something funny about Muhammed without looking over your shoulder or under your car for the rest of your life, and you THINK these people are going to be "civilized". Wake up.

The problem is, you can not fight guerilla forces with conventional ones. Didn't we teach the British something about that during the revolution and subsequent war of 1812? Didn't we learn that lesson during Viet Nam? Perhaps we have forgotten, because our "younger generation" is more interested in cartoons than the lessons of history.

It is a misconception that the might of the US Military is enough to impose Democracy on people who are more corrupt than our politicians with their 1000 dollar fee to come eat breakfast with me garbage.

MacArthur was fired not because he talked straight, but because he disobeyed a direct order from the president. THAT is firing offense. THAT matters.

Talking to Rolling Stone was the only way that MacChrystal could get the ear of the Obama administration.

We had a disaster in Iraq because we had that idiot Tommy Franks in charge. You can always find a yes man that is a fool to stroke your ego and salute. Those are easy to find. What is hard to find is a man who will tell you when you're wrong and give you a hard time.

Firing Stanley is the absolute wrong thing to do.

John, again, he did not tell his Commander his concerns, he went public. He should be fired or at least demoted.

I think you missed the point Sts - He did talk to Obama- (apparently on AF-1 after the last OS moment. That is when they came to an "agreement" on what was needed.) Obama didn't listen. He gave him the wrong troops for the job. So, as you know in the Chain of Command, when you have a problem with the Supervisor, you go to his supervisor. You could argue that is what McCrystal did. He went to the Media, i.e. the EYES AND EARS of the American Public, OBAMA's BOSS.

And who knows? MAYBE he tried to speak with him again and the Pentagon as well. But let's be perfectly honest here, I am a retired vet with 21 yrs of service, so I am MORE THAN AWARE of how the "game" is played, MOST LIKELY there was a "political motivation" for McCrystal NOT GETTING what he needs to successfully prosecute the war. All you have to do is look at what the CiC said about it being an "Acceptable Risk for US Forces NOT TO RESPOND with Force if Civilians could be endangered". I certainly understand his frustration. And we as OBAMAs BOSS need to hear from the troops on the ground, SO WE can support them in the manner in which they require, SO THEY can come home safe.

I am sure you can attest to at least having 1 supervisor that didn't know his a$s from his elbow. I am sure that is the case here, as we have already seen OUR PRESIDENT, bad mouthing OUR LAWS to FOREIGN LEADERS during a time of war. So let's not talk UNPATRIOTIC, because I sure as hell wouldn't tell MEXICO that a State in OUR UNION should cater to HIS COUNTRY's lawless behavior, NOR Would I have MY Sec of State, tell a FOREIGN NEWS AGENCY about MY PLANS to CHALLENGE A US STATE LAW to appease the lawless intrusion of foreign nationals into MY SOVEREIGN TERRITORY. If you want to talk about someone getting fired, I would start there for HRC running her gums to a foreign press...

stspecialk - John, again, he did not tell his Commander his concerns, he went public. He should be fired or at least demoted.

He told this Administration numerous times, once after General McKiernan was fired (the conditions for which General McChrystal would accept Command), before Congress, when the President visited recently, thru General Petraeus, recently again thru General Petraeus when General Petraeus passed out at Congress, etc..

And just like what happened to General McKiernan falling on deaf ears and getting US Military killed again.

You always have reliable (verifiable) J2 (Intelligence, not rumor nor schuttle butt) as to where the Bosses are, just in case they feel like having a surprise visit as well as knowing what is happening (situational awareness, like what is being discussed or considered, as you never know who might be required to take charge, until a NFG (New F**king Guy) can be sent in).

And that August 2009 Oceanliner load of Politicians, Political Appointees, Interns, Lawyers, and Booksmart US Civilians do not count as US Military Combatants. Same JAs (Jack arses) that took away Afghan Translators from US Military Ground Combat Units that are in daily contact with the Afghan populace, and use them as gophers (go for this and go for that, like getting Afghan KFC at Kabul). Yes, they turned the Green Zone into their own vacation spot.

Will the Watcher - He gave him the wrong troops for the job.

I do know why. Later on (after the Operations) I will tell you why. Hint: Look at who the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is (research Qualifications to conduct an Asymmetric Ground War or Asymmetric Mountain Warfare.).

McChrystal should resign because he admitted to a lack of poor JUDGEMENT, his words not mine.

Well America has been in Afghanistan for 9 years. Maybe his judgement is POOR!

So, he needs to go. WE need a NEW strategy in Afghanistan. WE need a new planner.

BYE McChrystal.

Plus he talks too much to be a GENERAL!.... LOOSE LIPS SINKS SHIPS!

Wilberta Berry,

Remember that BHO made this 'HIS WAR' after; taking office, doubling the troop levels, and placing his selected General in charge. He then doubled the troop levels again, when the NATO nations were down-sizing their troop levels.

Bush Jr turned the operation in Afghanistan over to the UN and NATO Dec 2001. The only thing BHO has accomplished is doubling the US Causality levels in ONE YEAR.

History has proven that Afghanistan can not be conquered by outside forces. Especially when the politicians are tying the hands of the troops. Even Bush Jr was smart enough to know this.......

IMO - Either support the troops on the ground or get them out and let the UN/world do the 'Nation Building'.

The politicians (Charter) started this current mess and now the US is paying for their mistakes with US soldiers lives. If you do not know what Charter did then you can not comprehend what is really happening in Afghanistan.

Wilberta Berry - Well America has been in Afghanistan for 9 years. Maybe his judgement is POOR!

McChrystal has been here about a year.

Your fool to beleave that tell ya what why dont you go to the war and get shot at then come back and talk your trash....

# 9.8- david

I know this is a Representative Republic, I have been saying that for years. It does not stop

people from believing we have a democracy. Since, most a Americans believe that, I was

Communicating in way they would understand.

I know that Shinseki resigned because of a series of issues, Bush and Rumsfeld being among them.

My point was to the people who think it's an unacceptable practise for the POTUS to except

resignations from their Generals and it is not.

McChrystal has been there a year, so what, Obama has been in the Whites for a little over a

year and some people are expecting him to FIX ALL the Countries ills ASAP!

McChrystal has been deficient in his THINKING, he needs to resign and Obama needs to

accept it....Plus he talks too much. 7000 plus Americans have died in Afghanistan.

They done need a leader making negative statements pertaining to their mission in

Afghanistan. It's in poor taste and it doesn't lend to the Morale of the Troops in a POSITIVE MANNER!

#10.7 AC

History has proven that this war in Afghanistan can not be won...I know this. That has been

brought up repeatedly by the Vietnam example.

I also know upon taking the Oath of Office this did become Obama's responsibility.

I also remember, GW telling the UN to got F themselves because He did not ave to answer to

them, and WE as Americans were going to fight this WAR with or without the UN'S assistance!

Bush JR. was not SMART enough, his ploicies and agendas WERE and DID tie the Militaries Hands.

YOU forget that, Colin Powell WARNED BUSH that if he broke it he would have to buy it , by

way of ownership. Well Bush Jr. Broke it and could not fix it, and did not BUY IT!

Plus, McChrystal is a DECEIVER and LIAR as with the Pat Tilman Cover-up.

McChrystal has COMPROMISED the Mission and he has to go!

WOW your head is WAY up your ass!

Well, not legally anyway.

The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters, according to the principles laid out by our Founding Fathers in the Constitution. Anyone who is unpatriotic enough to criticize our Commander in Chief during wartime needs to move to some third world country where a military coup every 6 months is the norm.

Jim-942196 , Ashamed About California,

Oh yes you can legally fire the President, as just like the recent US Supreme Court Ruling about supplying Terrorists, June 2010.

As this President has and is supplying Terrorists. With these Terrorists being identified as Terrorists by his Executive Branch Intelligence Agency.

Hamas previously $900 Million USDs US Aid. Next $400 Million USDs US Aid.

This is called Treason against the Citizens of the United States of America and grounds for Criminal Impeachment.

Irregardless, of if the US Aid was supplied to the Palestinians, as a matter of UN Record it was stated that the US Aid would be seized by the Hamas Warlords by force of arms from the Palestinians (just like the Somalis Warlords). But they sent the $900 Million USDs Aid anyway, and it was seized by the Hamas Warlords. With the Hamas Warlords using the US Aid to force more neutral Palestinians to join Hamas or starve and face daily beatings. These new Hamas recruits to prove their loyalty to Hamas are sent to Iraq for training and being equipped with Chinese manufacturered weapons of current Russian Federation design (similar to what was happening at Iraq, with the Iraqis Insurgency). These Hamas Foreign Fighters are then sent Worldwide to kill the Unbelievers (as described as the Jews and Christians by the Holy Koran (Quran) Sura 9.30). In return for the Hamas Foreign Fighters being sent Worldwide Iran sends more weapons to the Hamas Warlords at Palestine.

MarineVet - The President of the United States of America is elected, by the voters

I already told you to stop spreading half truths. As it is the Electoral College not the popular vote that determines the President and Vice President. See post#7.6.

david, President Obama won the election by 52% of the popular vote, as well as the electoral vote.

I think you have him mixed up with President Bush, who only won the electoral vote in 2000 and 2004.

Why do you keep posting misinformation?

Suzi Laughlin READ ABOUT THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

add to post#11.5

I already explained about how Bush got the Electoral College Votes.

And I explained in other Newsvine Forums about how "Mr Corporate America" got the Electoral College Votes for this administration.

As to why the Electoral College must be abolished and only the Popular Vote must determine the US President and Vice President. Making the US President and Vice President NOT indebted to the Electoral College.

The Electoral College by Law does determine the US President and Vice President as to why the US President is not Inaugurated until after the Electoral College Votes are tallied, January. This is long after the Popular Votes have been counted and recounted and verified December of previous year.

Actually, the Soviets succeeded quite well at occupying Afghanistan. What happened is that the USA gave the mujahedin weapons that would be a real problem for the USA if the Taliban had them now.

MacChrystal has always said it straight. I respect him for it totally.

We entered the country to "get Bin Laden". GWB changed the mission. Of course it would take 500,000 soldiers to subjugate the country. This has been know for decades. The war is unnecessary and is being fought now merely to sell military hardware and provide income opportunities to military contractors.

Actually, by my calculations, because of terrain, it should be 2 million soldiers. The population of Iraq and Afghanistan are roughly equal. One has terrain 4 times harder to control than the other.

It's a pretty straightforward calculation.

John, you missed my point. It's not the number of troops needed. It might be 5,000,000 or 5. We don't have the political will or the resources to '"win" here no matter whatever the number might be. I think McChrystal is a good general, too. But he realizes he is playing a losing hand and has really quite cleverly given himself an out.

Regarding the Soviet occupation, you must be referring to the Stinger missiles the CIA gave the mujahedin. Sure at the time the Soviets didn't have the technology to counter them. But the Soviets sat in Kabul and ran flights out of Bagram and had isolated strong points. They could never control any of the rural areas and we are running into some of the same problems, but of course we have better equipment and tactics. When we overran the Taliban in 2001, they still had those Stingers, but it didn't seem to make much difference. It's the corruption and culture we can not change and the idea that we won't be there that long.

Bill-367752 - We would need about 500,000 troops and literally occupy the place.

STOP TRYING TO REPEAT THE MISTAKES OF THE USSR 40TH ARMY UNLESS YOU WANT TO AUTOMATICALLY LOSE. USSR Conventional Warfare versus Asymmetric Warfare. How about researching how big the USSR 40th Army was (including all assets, like the rotation of divisions from the over 101 USSR Divisons at Eastern Europe to Afghanistan as attached to the USSR 40th Army. Then there are the Air assets to conduct carpet bombing, more aircraft and bombs than the US currently has.).

This place has a lot of parallels to Vietnam

The parallels to Vietnam as seen here on this Newsvine forum is that most of you do NOT understand what the f**k Asymmetric Warfare is. Meaning AUTOMATIC LOSERS. Just like all those US Military Conventional Warfare Flag (Generals and Admirals) Officers.

javadanny - We entered the country to "get Bin Laden". GWB changed the mission.

Wrong US Congress Changed the Mission when they stated US Policy of No Assassinations (targeting Leaders), just like they did to President Clinton when a Special Warfare Team already were asking for permission to execute. Then this became a Political pile of crapola when this became a UN Mission (research who the Permanent Members of the UN Security Counsel are). Then it was demanded after US Special Warfare located Osama Bin Laden that the Afghans be allowed to kill or capture him.

Enough with the ill founded non factual Bush bashing.

And before you say it, this mess started 1980s, Senator Charles Wilson, Democrat, Texas demanding US involvement after visiting the Afghan Refugees at Pakistan during the USSR Occupation. Resulting in US Military Training Teams from Germany (as an asset to the Agency) to Pakistan to train the Afghan Refugees to fight the USSR Occupation, becoming the Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen. The other millions of Afghans that fled to Iran were trained and equipped, some fighting in the Iran Iraq Wars on Iran's side (USSR Backed), they became the Taliban. After the Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen defeated the USSR 40th Army (USSR Occupation), the US Cut and Ran, irregardless of how much Senator Charles Wilson begged Congress not to abandon the Afghans. The Taliban returned from Iran and massacred all the Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen during the Afghan Civil War. This included the Taliban chasing the Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen into Pakistan and massacring them there also, as to how the Taliban ended up at Northern Pakistan. This is why to this day the Afghan allies of the US are waiting for the US to Cut and Run again, so that they know when to flee Afghanistan and why they do not trust the US. And now with all the f**king Lawyers sent here and this being a UN Mission we cannot shoot until shot, and if you survive then you can shoot back. And if you cannot prove "intent" then you will face four trials (defense at your expense) under UN Conventional Rules of Warfare (War Criminal), Islamic Laws (Koran (Quran), Hadith Laws, Fiqh Laws, Sharia Laws, Afghan Tribal Laws, etc.), US Civil Laws (Murder), and the UCMJ.

John Toradze - One has terrain 4 times harder to control than the other.

You forgot to include Northern Iraq (near the Turkish Border). Great similarity to here.

REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES AND EXPECT DIFFERENT RESULTS.

Bill-367752 - Regarding the Soviet occupation, you must be referring to the Stinger missiles the CIA gave the mujahedin. Sure at the time the Soviets didn't have the technology to counter them.

You have been watching too many movies. The Stinger missiles IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) were defeated by the USSR ECM, that identified them as Friendly. This included their "Flying Tanks", Hind Helicopters. It was after the USSR Occupation that an override was incorporated into the Stinger to allow firing. A tactic learned at Vietnam by my peer was used to shoot down the USSR Aircraft, by identifying known routes, channelling the aircraft, and lining up anti aircraft fires, 12.7mm anti aircraft machineguns or larger and even including firing multiple RPGs in succession (Vietcong tactics). As even the USSR were using updraft exhausts into the Hind Helicopter rotor blades to defeat the IR (Infra Red) of the Stinger.

But the Soviets sat in Kabul and ran flights out of Bagram and had isolated strong points.

Wrong as even today there are remains of the many USSR bases that they built everywhere after levelling many Afghan villages, towns and massacring all the inhabitants. Including the use of Chemical Warfare, like Agent Purple (whole body hemmoraging, bodies are purple afterwards), then there are the thousands of tons of air dropped area denial weapons (aka land mines) and those other thousands of tons of planted area denial weapons (many are still here), poisoning of water wells, etc.. The stupidest thing is that they built some of their bases in the middle of valleys instead of on the tops of the mountains (no knowledge of Asymmetric Mountain Warfare) just like the French at French Indochina, Dien Bien Phu. Even stupider than the USSR was the US occupied a small fraction of these former USSR bases (in the valleys). The old US tactic, locate the enemy, fix them in place, then destroy them; guess what it works for the Al Quada, Taliban, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, etc. as US Conventional Warfare Forces on bases become fish in a barrel. By the way those USSR area denial weapons being extremely low tech including their anti tamper devices still work today as dug up and used against us.

they still had those Stingers

Stinger batteries are not something that you buy off the shelf at Walmart, and they do not last from the 1990s to 2001 in this weather, extreme cold (autumn, winter) and hot (spring, summer).

but of course we have better equipment and tactics.

Equipment nope. Tactics nope (US Military Conventional Warfare versus Asymmetric Warfare, and McChrystal knows this (look at his shoulder tabs and that wing he earned over his right pocket). Go look at my previous critique about the USMC MEU at Marjah. As well as my previous posts about this place. As well as how high tech is defeated by low or no tech. I already told you about Training and Equipment at post#1.17.

How smart of a tactic do you think it is to use Conventional Warfare USMC MEU, landing on the beach, full frontal assault attacks at Marjah after announcing months in advance that you are going to attack. a) give the Al Quada, Taliban, Hamas Foreign Fighter, Chechen Foreign Fighters time to rent U-Hauls to move to Kandahar. b) enough time to leave a few IEDs, former USSR area denial weapons laying around. c) make sure that the farmers just plowed their fields so that the USMC MEU assault gets bogged down while carrying over 100 pound packs. d) leave a few suicide guys and snipers around just to take out a few then the snipers leave abandoning their weapons. Maybe exfiltrating as men dressed in Burkhas since they did not have enough women USMC to search everyone leaving Marjah. e) USMC patrols in the day, and the Al Quada, Taliban, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, etc. come out at night (plant more IED, area denial weapons and shake down more Afghans to make sure that they do not cooperate with the US, as Collaborators per the Holy Koran (Quran) Sura 33 they will "die a horrible murdering".).

Yes, really great tactics. NOT.

That isn't insubordination. What MacChrystal did was send a message to Washington because Washington doesn't listen to him.

The problem is with them, not him.

You can attempt to send such a message. So can I. Writing here, we actually do so; this crud is read by the administration. Four star generals cannot use their public persona to embarrass their superiors. It is against "duty, honor, country" and it is against the UCMJ, too.

Next week, McChrystal needs to come to the President on his knees.

To set the record straight, 'McChrystal did not commit insubordination'! He DID NOT disobey any order given to him. If you want to say he crossed the line of 'how he is supposed to communicate' with his superiors, OK!

NJ John, please read post #14.2

Obama can't "afford" diddly. He's bankrupt in ideology and every other manner of speaking.

What about the "gossiper" that told stories and is protected?

Dear lord.

I happen to know something about how coups happen. They always happen in militaries where nobody is allowed to breathe a word against the boss.

Always!

The strength of the USA military is that they can speak their mind. They have to. If they don't we are done.

From the UCMJ...

"888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS

Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

889. ART. 89 DISRESPECT TOWARD SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER

Any person subject to this chapter who behaves with disrespect toward his superior commissioned officer shall be punished as a court-martial may direct."

So "Ashamed" and all you other apologists. Do you believe the General should adhere to one of the most well-known articles of the UCMJ, or is he above the law? He certainly is in violation of 888, Article 88 and most likely 889 Art. 89 also.

Yes, dear. And if the UCMJ were enforced to the letter we would have no country left because we would have had a coup already.

Leadership is about knowing when someone is being insubordinate and when the guy is telling you what you need to hear but don't want to know. There is a huge difference. And on the front lines, if you are the kind of pr_ck who wants to enforce the manual to the letter, you will probably wind up dead.

The White House has not been acting as leadership to the military in Afghanistan. The White House has been treating them like faceless robots.

A hint for any body wanting to have a position of leadership anywhere. Know your staff. They are the body you accomplish things with.

He's only doing what everyone else in Washington DC does. They break the rules on a daily basis. Our president is ignoring federal law as we speak by not enforcing illegal immigration laws and suing Arizona for wanting their own law against illegals. Hell, the border near Tuscon is unsecured because Obama wants concessions for illegals before the border will be secured there.

I agree that he is disobeying two different regulations and should be dealt with. But I just wish we had those same regulations for the Congress, the Senate, and the President regarding the American people and the way they disregard America's laws.

Thank you for the wording of the code. The code is in place for a reason. What would McChrystal do if it was one of his subordinates?

If it were John or Ashamed, he'd hang them for insubordination in a theater of war. And good riddance to them both.

I think the thing that will determine McChrystal's future is the relationship between him and Eikenberry. If they cannot get along, he will get rid of McC.

MarineVet, I never said he should hang. I said he should be dealt with. And he has. As of today, he has been relieved of his command by Obama.

1

Ya mean Odumbo?

bill, you are just a sore loser. Obama still holds (depending on the poll) between a 40% to 50% approval rating.

and you know this how?

stspecialk - and you know this how?

You would know if you bothered to read post#1.17 instead of trying to hide the truth from others by collapsing the post.

I had nothing to do with that, I haven't been online for hours.

agreed. If the chairman cared about winning this, he would not fire him. However, it is clear commrade O does not care about the troops with the regs. he has imposed and announcing their withdrawal. So yes, he is weak and arrogant enough to fire a respected fighting man.

Can you please explain how announcing withdrawal (from Iraq, btw) means he DOESN'T care about the troops? Are we to assume from your statement that your version of "caring" for them is to leave them in that hell hole where more are wounded or killed every day?

spiritdance - Can you please explain how announcing withdrawal (from Iraq, btw) means he DOESN'T care about the troops?

a) now the Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, etc. will just lay low until we leave then return after we leave. So when they start massacring all the Afghans again like when we cut and run before the UN will demand that the US Military returns as a UN Peacekeeping Mission (again).

b) the Afghans think that we are going to cut and run again and are stop trusting us, again.

c) more Afghans to avoid being massacred join the "winning" side, the Taliban.

d) sending the wrong types of US Military to fight an Asymmetric War. Getting them killed.

e) sending more US Civilians August 2009 into a combat zone (see previous posts) requiring the US Military to perform more static security (sitting ducks). With the enemies knowing to shoot at an armored SUV, then a HMMWV, a Striker, but not a Buffalo (MRAP). So more US Military die attempting to protect these US Civilians, rescue them or recover their bodies.

f) taking away the experienced Translators from the US Military Ground Forces (in daily contact with the Afghans) and giving them to the Politicians, Political Appointees, Interns, "Booksmart" US Civilians, and Lawyers, sent here by Obama, who use them as gophers (errand boys, e.g. go get some KFC at Kabul.).

g) the US Civilians sent here (listed at f) above) doing exactly what the enemy has stated about the foreigners decadence. And resulting in the loss of trust and confidence in the "foreigners". destroying years of work to gain the common afghans trust in minutes.

h) USN Aircraft Carrier Battlegroup switched from support US Ground Forces Afghanistan to Humanitarian Aid Mission Haiti. So Haitians die or US Military.

I told you about the other proof that "he DOESN'T care about the troops" at post#1.17. If you want I can explain about Iraq also (been there saw that too, before here.) as to how we got Iraq all wrong since after the Iran Iraq Wars.

He's part of the state secret police.

If we don't have more depth in the military than that we might as well forget fighting wars.

If the quarterback starts publicly questioning the plays of the coach, he would get fired (or at least fined).

Depends on who the quarterback is. Don't watch much football do ya?

rufusthedog - If we don't have more depth in the military than that we might as well forget fighting wars.

Unfortunely, US Army or any other Branch Special Warfare Flag (General or Admiral) Officers are extremely rare. First training as a Conventional Warfare Officer (Officer Basic, Advanced Course) Air Assault, Airborne, then Ranger (used by all Branches to determine if worthy of attending their own Special Warfare Schools), then selection to Special Warfare School, after this there is still another assessment. Followed by more schools (Mountain Warfare, Winter Warfare, Desert Warfare, Jungle Warfare, Diver School, Language, Arctic Warfare, EOD, Physicians Assistant, SERE C/D, HALO/HAHO, and some unmentionable ones, etc.). This is in addition to those schools required by the US Military Conventional Warfare Officers, like Command and General Staff College and War College, additionally maintaining a CEL (Civilian Education Level) like MBA, MA, MS, PhD, etc. to remain competitive for promotion. Stuck in between all these schools are deployments to gain Operational Experience (to prove that you can do what you learned in schools, unlike the US Military Conventional Officers. Starting with low intensity low risk in actual Combat situations and escalating.). This all takes decades, with many attritions (like Medical Disqualifications, Injuries, Accidents, Deaths, Failures, Quitters, Retirements, etc.).

This is inspite of the fact that even back in my day, it was taught at Command and General Staff College and War College that the Wars after the defeat of the USSR would be Asymmetric and NOT Conventional.

The biggest reason is as stated in my collapsed post#1.17. And the fact that Asymmetric Warfare is NOT liked by US Congress as it does not require those expensive Cold War Era Conventional Warfare US Military Equipment designed in their States. Also stated in post#1.17 (the example of the F-22, 1990s design). This makes the Asymmetric Warfare Qualified Flag Officers (Generals and Admirals) unpopular with US Congress and the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces and makes the US Military Conventional Warfare Flag Officer popular with US Congress. In another Newsvine Forum (based on first hand experience (years) I stated what is necessary for the US Military Conventional to switch into the Asymmetric Warfare role to participate with these Wars and the Future Wars. Just like I stated that you cannot fight here at Afghanistan from the roads (like the US Military Conventional Forces continue to do, and get blown up by IEDs and area denial weapons (landmines)) as these become known routes of advance and movement.

The other reason that Asymmetric Warfare is hated is that it takes a very long time to win. As also stated before on another Newsvine Forum. How long would it take for you to trust an armed stranger with your life and your families lives; especially if they do not know your laws, language, customs, religion, beliefs, thought processes, look different (like an Imperial Storm Trooper from StarWars), etc.. I stated some of the goals of Asymmetric Warfare at post#1.17.

This is why the youngest person that I have is 28 (he has a lot more training to go to, he joined at age 18). With most of us being 40 or over, I am the oldest (over 50, older than my USMC senior NCO, Command Sergeant Major position.). I have men and women with me that were 0-1s when were sent from Germany as US Military Training Team to the "Middle East" during the 1980s, as even back then I knew only women associate with women and they attended the same schools as my men (extemely rare). The only good thing about all of this is that I still have the same physique as when I received my Selective Service Card, 1970s, High School.

This is why Generals like General McChrystal are rare.

This ain't no football game, it's a circus! We still have all those "clowns" in Washington to deal with, remember?

OK, whatever Limbaugh.

Lol...

Hell man don't you know its Bush's fault. Just ask the press.

M Thompson-1401432

So you approve of insubordination? Regardless of what you think he (the General) is dead wrong.

I dont care how right on he is - its insubordination - he needs to be fired

First off, it wasn't "the Generals " assessment. There was one General and his staff involved. Secondly whatever he may have thought of President Obama and however "dead on target", his assessment might have been, to spout off like that in a public forum is disrespectful and counter-productive. All (soon-to-be retired) General McChrystal accomplished was to further compromise the war effort.

Unprofessional, insubordinate and dysfunctional: his words, and those of his staff, were all three. The working relationship between the Commander and Chief and his General in Afghanistan was fatally compromised and somebody had to go.

And guess what... in this country Generals don't fire Presidents. So, Vaya con Dios General McChrystal.

I agree - Obama is the one to be fired