You're throwing a term around without fully understanding it's definition or history. Where would we be today without progressives? With Jim Crow laws and no women's rights.

RE: Abonides "You're throwing a term around without fully understanding it's definition or history. Where would we be today without progressives? With Jim Crow laws and no women's rights."

Those are good things(never mind that they took place a generation ago), but what have progressives done for us lately? Not a whole heck of a lot.

Both the Democrats and Republicans are controlled/funded by the big banks and wall-street. These two parties alternatively take control of the government and exploit it for their own greed and power and could care less about middle-class America. Whichever party wins, they (the big banks and wall-street) win.

J Hill - progressives spoke out against the Bush wars. They did a lot more, but that was the thing I think had the greatest impact. It was a struggle, as so many people who opposed the wars were called un-American by the GOP, but ultimately it was clear that the NON-progressives had abandoned our basic American rights and values - and it was killing us morally, literally, and in the end - also killing the economy.

Progressives continue to speak out defending protections offered by our Bill of Rights, fighting for fair wages paid to the working poor, moving government resources and expenditures to help those who really need it instead of supporting only a huge military hydra including thousands of overpaid contractors, encouraging energy reform and more efficiencies in gas mileage (CAFE Standards updated).

Another very important thing progressives continue to do is attempt to keep conversations honest and fact-based. In the face of the barrage of the Sean, Rush, Sara and Glenn "anti-facts" rants, this is truly a public service. The far right's disregard for facts has led a lot of distressed people right int a ditch filled with fear, anger and negativity that creates nothing.

Also - progressives have championed keeping religion out of politics. That to me is critical right now, as some still want to deny rights to gays, persecute good soldiers who are gay, murder doctors doing legal procedures, harass people providing support services to women, and marry children - all in the name of religion. AND they want to institutionalize it so all Americans have to be Christians? Freedom of religion.

Last of all - if you think that women's rights and Jim Crow laws are OK, you must admit that discrimination of minorities and women still is far from over. Just look at the signs, racial slurs, people spitting in the faces of Black Congressmen, women still being paid a fraction of what men are for the same work, small percentages of women in positions of influence, you can see we still have lots to improve. It's better - but not yet right.

The public needs a conscience. Progressives are that voice calling Americans to be their best selves, and not stray from the rights this country offers.

What is a "professional left" and for that matter what is a "progressive?" They should go by their proper name: radical socialists. No one can please these radical socialists except maybe Fidel Castro. I would be delighted if they all moved to Cuba or Canada. They could then experience Obamacare on steroids and pay their fair share of taxes. Good riddance.

Progressives stood shoulder to shoulder with Saddam and wanted him to continue to murder innocent people with poison gas.

"White House in dispute with 'professional left'"

The 'Left' is eating itself.

Bri. The Iraqi war killed more innocent people that Saddam ever did or would. Remember Regan and Daddy Bush put him in power, he was their puppet, until he started using the weapons(chemical) they gave him. I suppose they were progressives. Know you history before making comments.

They're frustrated because the liberals were in control of EVERYTHING, the Presidency, the House and even a filibuster proof Senate, but accomplished NONE of the liberal's agenda, and now they are about to lose control.

I "feel your pain", but in my case, it's a wonderful feeling of joy as November approaches. As the old saying goes;

"For what we are about to receive may the Lord make us truly thankful".

Abonides "You're throwing a term around without fully understanding it's definition or history."

Homosexual used to have a bad connotation, so they changed it to "gay" because it sounds better.

Liberal used to have a bad connotation, so they changed it to "progressive" - it sounds so "modern".

Even the word Liberal has been changed to suit the goals of those who seek bigger, more powerful government control of our lives. Look up "Classical Liberal", and you will find that it's original meaning was derived from the word "Liberty" and meant fighting against a strong, powerful central government, the very thing that modern day Liberals (Progressives) now promote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

"A rose by any other name ............"

Dorfy,

J Hill - progressives spoke out against the Bush wars. They did a lot more, but that was the thing I think had the greatest impact. It was a struggle, as so many people who opposed the wars were called un-American by the GOP, but ultimately it was clear that the NON-progressives had abandoned our basic American rights and values - and it was killing us morally, literally, and in the end - also killing the economy.

The war was not Bush's war, jets were flown into the twin towers and no response at all would show a sign of weakness which could have lead to more attacks. Intel was provided by a half dozen countries. Chirac and Kofi Anon stole money from the oil for food program worsening the events. Billy boy Clinton was warned by Ollie North about Osama Bin Laden and failed to act 3 times which would have prevented 911 if he would have acted as president just once, but he was to busy with Monica to give a hoot.

Progressives continue to speak out defending protections offered by our Bill of Rights, fighting for fair wages paid to the working poor, moving government resources and expenditures to help those who really need it instead of supporting only a huge military hydra including thousands of overpaid contractors, encouraging energy reform and more efficiencies in gas mileage (CAFE Standards updated).

Liberals are trying to re-write the Bill of Rights (the health care debacle is an example) no where does it control costs and no where in the Bill of Rights is it a right. Obama just handed 31 million people to the insurance coffers is all. Your healthcare insurance will not lower it will increase.

Just what resources do the Liberals claim to have moved? And without those high paid contractors our defense would be at a loss and so would the tax base of the nation. By the way your taxes will be going up as well.

The Cafe laws just got recently changed a year ago and were not changed since 1987 before that, as Big Oil owns our Government.

You do realize that creating an electric car means the electric companies will burn more coal to produce the electricity.

Another very important thing progressives continue to do is attempt to keep conversations honest and fact-based. In the face of the barrage of the Sean, Rush, Sara and Glenn "anti-facts" rants, this is truly a public service. The far right's disregard for facts has led a lot of distressed people right int a ditch filled with fear, anger and negativity that creates nothing.

They aren't in Office they are a media outlet like CNN, CBS, NBC and others of course their fan base is larger than all those combined.

The Democratically Controlled Congress and Senate and Administration has spent more money in 1 year than any Government in history.

Rangel, Boxer, Pelosi, Franks are prime examples of the corruption - tax evasion due to "I didn't know" when he is on the committee that writes the Bills to be submitted for law doesn't fly.

Diverting money to her husbands bank and told by Franks to stay away from it with her grandson to follow-up as her manager is illegal.

Pelosi and Starkist Tuna you can just type in " Pelosi Tuna" in any search engine to get details.

Franks in charge of the oversight of Fannie and Freddie and having him assist to fix it is blantantly what is wrong with our government. Freddie and Fannie is what created the econmic downturn and the Democrats blocked measures for oversight and went as far as calling the auditor names. Boxer, Waters and Franks. You need a link to the Youtube sensation?

Also - progressives have championed keeping religion out of politics. That to me is critical right now, as some still want to deny rights to gays, persecute good soldiers who are gay, murder doctors doing legal procedures, harass people providing support services to women, and marry children - all in the name of religion. AND they want to institutionalize it so all Americans have to be Christians? Freedom of religion.

You can't re-write history the country was founded on Christain beliefs. Speration of state and church means the Government can not pick a specific religion and support it. It does not mean they cannot have Christain beliefs to guide them in the decision making process.

As for building a mosque near grond zero, that is an an atrocity to every cilvilized American and should not be allowed. Hopefully those who voted for it will be replaced.

Last of all - if you think that women's rights and Jim Crow laws are OK, you must admit that discrimination of minorities and women still is far from over. Just look at the signs, racial slurs, people spitting in the faces of Black Congressmen, women still being paid a fraction of what men are for the same work, small percentages of women in positions of influence, you can see we still have lots to improve. It's better - but not yet right.

Its the best place in the world to live. People spit in the faces of all Congressman not just black, white, spanish or asian. The woman in this country are the highest paid in the world by comparsion.

The public needs a conscience. Progressives are that voice calling Americans to be their best selves, and not stray from the rights this country offers.

The public has a conscience and does not attempt add to so-called rights that are not part of the Bill of Rights or to re-write the Constitution to interpret it in a different fashion to fit your idealogy of right or wrong. Thats why many in the Government will be replaced come November.

Finally the liberals do not speak for this nation as much as you would like to hink it does.

The Iraqi war killed more innocent people that Saddam ever did or would.

Fletch #1.8

I suggest you look at some of your facts before you complain about others. Sadaam killed over 300,000 of his own people, add into that the Iran/Iraq war, incursions into Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria. We are still not sure of the TOTAL body count.

It is my experience that most on the 'professional left' do little more than write a check..There are few that do more than expect their' teenage expectations' to be met immediately but they do screech, loudly!

Adam Greene said that they have 450,000 members but are the Obama 'base'! How many Americans voted for him? 50+ million!!!!

Gibbs may have been telling the truth on this one but it is not helpful to tell the truth to vocal whiners..About this time in an Admin there is a great deal of burnout...perhaps we are seeing the beginning of the mid admin turnover! I would support Rahm going back to Chicago for starters!

You got it..Govt_issue!

Govt _Issue,

Bri-1732738

Progressives stood shoulder to shoulder with Saddam and wanted him to continue to murder innocent people with poison gas.

• 4

• !

#1.6 - Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:44 PM EDT

This is what I responded to.
Since you are so good with facts, how many Iraqi civilians died in the US invasion?
Not to mention the unnecessary loss of our military lives.

Where did Saddam get the poison gas he used?

Who were the Progressive that stood shoulder to shoulder with him and wanted him to continue killing?

Can you give me the total body count of the US invasion in Iraq? What about the total body count in Afghanistan( civilians, that is)?

Before pointing a finger we need to look at ourselves.

Change the channel. Complex thoughts could over tax that bagger brain.

RE: Michael "So if we vote the dems out then we'll have a fascist GOP government and you'll be able to dress up in your brownshirt and black boots."

You mean Nazis? Yeah, FYI, the term "Nazi" was a nickname for Germany's National Socialist party, NAtional SoZIalist=NAZI. Of course, everyone knows how big Republicans are on socialism, so the brown shirts are sure to come out if they have a good day at the polls in November.

Wow, Godwin's Law hits early.

(The Nazis have as much to with socialism as the Tea Party has to do with Earl Grey.)

J.Hill - You really need to do some reading.

The "Nazis" party was based on nationalism (you know - Deutschland uber alles?). Flag waving screamers who beat up anyone who disagreed with them - these were the Brown Shirts - the SA - Hitler's tough guys in the early days of the movement. They fought frequent street battles against the socialists from Russia trying to take over Europe at that time, throwing rocks, etc.

The SA and AHitler had socialism as their primary enemy. Read Mein Kampf some time. It might help you better understand what AHitler obssessed about most. It was Russia and their brand of socialism taking over Europe and destroying "pure" European culture. Along side of that - he hated the Versailles Treaty and its treatment of Germany at the end of WWI.

Every government in the world is socialist in some form. Socialism is really just a tenet of modern society that says government and society together can do some things better when done as a group - like paving streets and providing street lights, providing schools and teachers and firemen and police and building bridges and caring for the elderly, etc.

Socialism has taken many forms - some evil, some good. The Swedes would be unhappy being compared to Stalinists or Nazis, simply because they have an element of socialism in their system.

Hitler and Stalin and Mussolini were dictators. NOT democratically elected once they gained power (voted in at first, but later - no way) and they dissolved all governmental bodies that represented the public. They relied on the military for their power, brutally enforced it, denied certain ethnic groups basic rights and imprisoned people if opposed. They worked closely with big corporations to dole out juicy military industrial contracts, creating a wealthy elite free of taxation. Friends were treated well. Enemies were killed. Early on the lives of people improved, but then they were asked to pursue wars of occupation that resulted in the deaths of over 50 million people.

Unless you think all Republicans want dirt roads and no street lights or schools, they too have elements of socialism in their philosophy. They just ignore that fact.

The Brown Shirts were street thugs, not socialists, and really not even National Socialists - as they arrived early and were marginalized in the 1930's, so they disappeared from influence as an organization.

Which party uses the military to gain influence? Which one silenced the opposition to the Iraq war? Which one imprisoned people with no proof of crimes in Guantanamo? Started an unprovoked war of occupation? Which one spied on its own people? Made sweet deals to enrich its leaders and the corporations? Insisted on blanket loyalty no matter what was proposed? Ruined the economy to fight wars? Stood in school house doorways trying to block children of color from entering? Challenges a legally elected president's right to lead based on his color?

Your implication that Democrats would come out at beat up Republicans if they win at the polls is vile, irresponsible, mindless, and reveals a lame attempt to fan the flames of division and extremism. It also shows you don't know enough about politics, history or good taste to make valid connections between Brown Shirts, their historical context, politicial philosphy and current American politics. I guess that would take too much effort to present facts.

Liberals, this is the economic thinking of the NAZI's and it sure ain't GOP. It was very leftist.

The Nazis argued that capitalism damages nations due to international finance, the economic dominance of big business, and Jewish influences within it.^[91] Adolf Hitler, both in public and in private, held strong disdain for capitalism; he accused modern capitalism of holding nations ransom in the interests of a parasitic cosmopolitan rentier class.^[93] He opposed free-market capitalism's profit-seeking impulses and desired an economy where community interests would be upheld.^[94] He distrusted capitalism for being unreliable, due to it having an egotistic nature, and he preferred a state-directed economy.^[95] Hitler told one party leader in 1934, "The economic system of our day," referring to capitalism, "is the creation of the Jews."^[96] In a discussion with Italian Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini, Hitler said that "Capitalism had run its course".^[95]

A number of Nazis held strong revolutionary socialist and anti-capitalist beliefs, most prominently Ernst Röhm, the leader of the Nazis' main paramilitary group, the Sturmabteilung (SA).^[99] Röhm claimed that the Nazis' rise to power constituted a national revolution, but insisted that a socialist "second revolution" was required for Nazi ideology to be fulfilled.^[100

Joseph Goebbels adamantly stressed the socialist character of Nazism, and claimed in his diary that if he were to pick between Bolshevism and capitalism, he said "in final analysis", "it would be better for us to go down with Bolshevism than live in eternal slavery under capitalism."^[103]

Hitler said: "We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

Heartlight....There's no discussion with the sheeple who have been brainwashed by Fox News and Limbaugh and Beck. These people live in an alternate universe. One in which they think they will be untouched by a GOP government that would take what little wealth there is left in the middle class and give it to the wealthy plutocracy.

Well said Michael 784318. And well reasoned.

People have been voting republican for years, and their basic philosophy hasn't changed. They have a different world view, and a different set of priorities. Whether you agree with them or not is up to you. So arrogant to reason that if someone has their own point of view that runs counter to yours, they are delusional or stupid. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: anyone (right or left) that is too far on their end of the political spectrum is dangerous. You, just barely holding on trying not to fall off the left end, are no more dangerous than the radical tea-partiers or republicans. Get a grip

Michael: I totally dis agree with Greg. There's not one reasonable thought in your rant. All you do is take the same accusations thrown at liberals and turn them around with conservative names. Any original thoughts upthere in that brain. Or do you just have to copy someone elses BS.

I just love how threatened the Left is by Rush, Beck and Fox...the Left has Olberman, Madcow, Stephanie Miller, and MSNBC...they just don't have ratings. Ha! I think it's so funny.

Michael, Heartlight....There's no discussion with the sheeple who have been brainwashed by Fox News and Limbaugh and Beck. Is that all you ever think of? I watch Fox and I watch MSNBC, in fact O'Reilly and Olbermann come on at the same time. Flip back and forth between the two and let us know who is the most fair. Where do you get your news? MAybe you can enlighten all the "sheeple"? Thank you in advance O Wise One.

I agree. And what really irks me is so-called "progressives" expecting the President to achieve what they have not been able to since Reagan, that is, win the minds and hearts of the American people. Progressives, like the radical rights, have allowed themselves to be marginalized largely by looking down their collective noses at the very people they are trying to persuade and playing it holier than thou. See how far that will get you with most Americans!

Serene, so well said. Arrogance.

Serene - I too am tired of the reverse elitism from the right -

If someone uses a word with more than two syllables they are elitist? If someone has a ollege degree they should hide it? If someone enjoys travelling overseas they are un-American? If someone disagrees with injecting religion into judicial decisions they are not moral? If someones thinks some of our ideas are old-fashioned and have held us back they are "bad-mouthing America"? If someone thinks we shouldn't foul our environment they are just being emotional? If a woman doesn't marry she must be gay? If a Black person is successful they must have gotten some sort of government handout? If a person is unemployed it's because they don't want to work? I could list a lot more - but please don't allude to the left being the major source of the culture wars.

I have heard more closed-minded bilge from a lot of people who claim to be the "real" Americans than from progressives. Spitting, name-calling, pushing & shoving, screaming, disrespecting, ignoring facts....is this "real" American behavior? Most of them don't know me, and have no idea where I stand politically. Yet they assume that I look down my nose because I say siren instead of sireeeeen.

Maybe they should quit worrying about who is better than whom, just stick to the facts and be a good human being. Too many are obssessed with winning, being right, and gaining some sort of stature based on that.

Ignorant, rude, fearful of anything different or new, intolerant is no way to go through life.

"We" did not all vote for Obama. Obama is a far-left radical that has violated almost every campaign promise he made and has moved the country into socialism. Republicans, Independents and yes, Tea Party people will defeat Obama and his socialist, anti-business agenda. Why do you think our economy is the worst since the Great Depression? It is because of the terrible bills passed by this runaway congress led by Obama the socialist. We will band together and defeat all of you leftests. You might as well start packing.

dorfy, how do you get a "ollege degree" (sic)? I really don't know where you stand, liberal or conservative. I suspect from your run-on rant that you are liberal. Can you make your point in fewer words?

Michelle Obama's luxury Spain vacation was even panned by your liberal commentators.

Yes, there is a great divide between the radical left and conservatives. Conservatives want smaller government, lower taxes, balanced budgets, strong defense, and strong support for the U.S. Constitution. Liberals want larger and larger government, higher and higher taxes, deficit spending, weak defense and revisionist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. How can anyone want the liberal label if they are a true American?

Pelosi is probably trying to get him fired now. Like she has a leg to stand on.. hahaha Look at the budget deficit of her own state for comparison.

Joy...you are right....Seventy percent of American workers want to belong to a union. They want to have social security. They want medicare. They want public schools. Then there's the plutocracy and the sheeple who listen to Fox News. They want it to be a free for all in which 90 percent of the people will be living in cardboard boxes and 10% will live like queens and kings.

The Dems might not be giving progressives what we want, but the GOP has proven itself to be far worse. If this country gets so whacked out they elect the people who caused the mess back into power then you'd better duck and cover.

Michael: 70% of American workers want to belong to a union???? Please post where that pole is because I have never heard it. It must be upseting knowing that the leader you got is not the leader you voted for. :)

Refer below

70% of workers want to be in a union. That is the most ridiculous thing I have read today, and that is saying a lot.

Michael: Do you have a fixation with Fox News? Nothing Obama has done is working. Sorry. Just the facts. Hey I'd be glad to give our President all the credit he deserves. However, to date there is none. Robert Gibbs has a sore throat. Yeah right. The games this administration plays are so obvious it's laughable. If the democrats whole campaign stradegy is blame Bush. They are going to get their butts handed to them in November. But, scinse nothing they have done is either popular or working I guess that's all they have.

The man ran on a platform of ...

Getting healthcare to those who had none - He passed the most comprehensive healthcare legislation ever. Is it perfect? No but its a start.

He promised to help reign in Wallstreet banks - He passed the Wallstreet reform act which should help to fix some of the problems which led to the financial meltdown to begin with.

He promised that he would pass legislation to help stimulate the economy - He signed the stimulus law into effect which pumped billions of dollars into government funded programs, thereby keeping people employed. Is it a panacea? No.

But this is how the economy works...if the private sector stops spending then the public sector can either also shrink back in fear OR try to fill that gap with spending regardless of the capital price. He's a Democrat. He's not in the business of giving wealthy tax cuts (business tax cuts) and therefore the government spending was the way he was going to go. This should have/was obvious.

He said we'd withdraw from Iraq. We're on the way out as of December. We've already started the windown from that disaster.

He's kept most of his big promises so far....at least he's attempted to get them done.

Joy, the professional left is anything but mainstream. Liberals make up about 20% of the electorate. So how did Obama the Socialist get elected? Because of naive independents that voted for this inept, inexperienced, radical, racist Chicago politician. We will correct that problem in November and in 2012. Obama might as well stay on vacation. His socialist agenda is DOA and hopefully will be repealed in 2012 when a republican president takes over. Get ready to do some big time whining, moaning and crying.

If the average American is a progressive, we would have looked like France beginning in 1950. Good try with your lies, just like the progressives that ran the USSR.

Basedrum:

It wasn't healthcare reform, it was healthcare takeover, big government style and we all know how well they run programs.

The wall street reform was a joke. It gave more powers to the big banks and also took away our right of transparency with regards to the division who is in charge of overseeing the banks. I wonder why?

The stimulus package was a disaster. You know it, I know it and the American people know it. I would never classify that as a 'win' in his column.

He has been on a spending spree and the businesses don't like it, are uncertain where we are headed with all the 'who cares where the money comes from attitude'. Obama has spent more money in 1.5 years than GWBush did in 8. (I know, it's Bush's fault)

Until this administration can understand that people want a frugal, efficient and honest government, he will continue to bolster fear and uncertainty in the business sector.

Most people think Unions Suck.. Unions are what Caused most jobs to leave thiis country.. that and nafta which was Signed into law by None other then Bill Clinton

Bob...just saying the left (what left?) is as extreme as the fascist right wing tea party, doesn't make it so. You really need to back up your claims with facts and examples.

Bob, I couldn't agree more.

Michael, this is not something that can be proved empirically, just like your contention that, "They want it to be a free for all in which 90 percent of the people will be living in cardboard boxes and 10% will live like queens and kings." Although one is far more plausible than the other, I'll let you decide which one.

ChiCity...Read the Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein and get back to me. If you think it can't go back to the way it was before Roosevelt, then you are not a student of history.

I am well versed in Naomi Klein. I have read Shock Doctrine and No Logo- doesn't mean I have to agree. I am not a student of history? You're right, just a political science major. If you want to write a list of what we have read, I can do that. I think you should write an extra list of what you actually understood.

Funny, the person she quotes on her own website to endorse her book is Rachel Maddow. You are no less a mouthpiece for liberal media than crazy republicans are for Beck, etc. As I said, you are on the edge of the spectrum, and dangerous.

It took a lot longer than eight years to get this country into the toilet it is in. You need to look a lot farther than that if you want to place blame and it falls on both sides. Bush was not the only one to blame for all the problems of this nation no matter what Olberman and Madcow may tell you the congress had more to do with it than the president and that means both parties.

Breeze, we don't want to be part of a radical socialist solution of wealth redistribution. Are your taxes and healthcare expenses going up? Do you have a job or are you on welfare or unemployment? Maybe you are benefiting from the socialist giveaway programs of this corrupt administration that is bankrupting the country. Is that why you support Obama?

Greg, playing the race card again? Can't you come up with an original thought? Why don't you listen to Beck and Rush and learn something about your savior Obama. I also listen to the leftest NBC and MSNBC news from time to time to hear how they are spinning the lies of the Obama administration and not covering anti-Obama stories.

Unemployment was stable during the first 6 years of the Bush administration. Unemployment has doubed since January 2007 when Democrats took control of Congress. Half that increase has come since B.H.Obama won the White House.

Bob...what a warped re-spin of history. Don't try and give us the Fox News version of reality. We know exactly who put us into this mess and whose policies are responsible for it. Don't try and blame it on the Dems....The GOP used reconcilliation 26 times when they were a minority during the last few years of Bush's administration. They passed huge tax cuts for the wealthiest americans through reconcilliation and drove up the national debt to 9.5 trillion. And they gave absolutely no oversight to the criminal banking system that brought down the economy with sub-prime hedge funds and derivatives to the tune of 700 trillion dollars.

Spin? What part of my post do you deny?

Bob...there were two recessions during Bush's time in office. A recession doesn't bring about stable employment.

Bob,

Employment is a lagging indicator. That is a known economic fact.

Most jobs lost under the Obama administration were actually a result of happenings from a few months to a few years BEFORE he took office. The economy was in a tailspin during the election months...or don't you remember the bill that McCain rushed back to oppose and eventually voted for and the meeting about that bill that involved Bush and both presidential candidates? Or don't you like looking at history?

Michael and Basedrum..

Obama has been in office Nearly 2 years.. and he is still blaming Bush. Glad to know that we can use the Same Arguement when Bush Was first Elected. The first to years must have been Clintons fault.. you know. 9/11. The Afgan war.. Thanks for Clearing that up for us..

Average unemployment for the year from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

2001-4.7%

2002-5.8%

2003-6.0%

2004-5.5%

2005-5.1%

2006-4.6%

2007-4.6%

2008-5.8%

2009-9.3%

July, 2010-10.2%

Gibbs must be working for Michelle Obama. She seems to be at war with Barry. Could it be because there are too many people in the family bedroom? BTW, why is Valerie always travelling with Barry? Hmmmmmmmmm.

Michael: Key words here....UNIONS... Bull@!$%#. Unions are the very reason the jobs have been outsourced. They destroyed the auto industry, now they're destroying the teacher, cop and fire careers. UNIONS used to serve a purpose but hasn't for years. Their pensions, their lack of work ethic, their demands.....they have reuined the country. Don't spout anything about a Union to me. Lake Research Partners surveyed the random national sample of 800 non-supervisory working adults in March 2007 on behalf of Change to Win, a new coalition of seven unions representing 6 million workers in industries that form the basis of the new American economy

AnnieRich....what warped universe do you live in? Prove that unions destroyed the auto industry. Prove it damn it. Quit rattling off vitriol.

You sound like some wanna-be plutocrat. You look down at American workers as though they are trash. You are simply deplorable.

My father in law owns a business with about 300 union employees. Just recently, they threatened strike if they didn't get a 15% across the board raise. This in spite of the fact that the billable man hours have gone from 4,000,000 to less than 1,000,000 in the last 18 months. What is your stance on that, Michael?

ChiCity....that's the nature of negotiations. They come in high. Your father-in-law comes in low and they end up coming together at some point. If there is no union, there is no negotiation. That might suite your father-in-law, but it won't help the workers.

If there is no organization to country the wealthy class, then the distribution of wealth will continue to shift to the wealthiest 10%. We will end up with even more poverty and underemployed and underpayed workers.

Even Henry Ford understood the value of union workers. He knew if the worker got paid more, he/she would buy more Fords. And that they did.

Michael, you are really in over your head. Why should there be any raise when he is already losing money just trying to keep them employed. It's not a game. Only a union would have the balls to ask for a raise during this economy.

He consistantly gave bonuses to all his workers during good years. Are they going to give him money back when they don't make money? You must live in a vaccuum without any real context, because your pie in the sky idealism reaks of naivete.

ChiCity...It always works out. And if the union has binding arbitration, the negotiations will go to an arbitrator.

Union workers don't stage a strike unless they have hard figures to go on. It's all part of the negotiating process. A person is hired to go over the books and see exactly what is and isn't realistic. Then if they reach impasse a arbitrator can be brought in. It just depends on how things are structured.

Many union members, including me have taken zero pay raises year after year when the chips were down. But, not before specialists had combed through the books to see how much money is available.

In California, public union workers actually took a pay cut and changes in retirement, ie increase in retirement age and worker retirement contributions. It happens all the time.

Michael, you are dogmatic. There is no way to debate this, because you are working from a base line so far off from the conventional starting point. Good luck to you, if you are in a union, you will need it.

Michael, do you work for the WH? Your B.S. answers sound more like Gibb's rants. Maybe you ARE Gibbs? Unions are the problem why the auto industry in Detroit is on life support and is government supported (like France, another socialist country). Isn't it funny that Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai are doing just fine and are not unionized? The time for unions is over. Over. Do you get it? Obama's support of unions is bankrupting this country. Another $24 Billion for unions was signed in to law by Obama the Socialist just today!

I would like to see jobs come back to U.S. 60% of products sold in U.S. should be made in the U.S. The only one that hurts is big business.

if anyone thinks that any company is gonna bring Jobs back to this country for outrageous Union Wages when you can get the same thing done for less they are sadly Mistaken.. Most US business are all for giving Americans Fair Wages.. but to say you have to pay outrageous Union Scale Wages. .. All Government Contracts should be Open to all Bids and not Subject to prevailing wages pay scale..

Unions are what drove jobs out of this country..Period

Steve you are right. I can speak from experience, unions are usually a bad deal. The union workers cant do certain things. They cant help anyone. In some cases you have to join an union just to pay dues even though they do nothing for you.

They go on strike, disregarding the affect it has on anyone or anything.

Yes, they demand whats considered fair wages, but they wield their powers too often to benefit only themselves. They would rather make a company go out of business and everyone loose, rather than make concessions.

Everyone should work for themselves, not for unions. The leaders ask for fair wages and then take it in form of union dues.

I volunteer with a charity, and we recently had our year fundraiser. In setting up the space, held at the United Club at Soldier Field in Chicago, we were instructed that we were not allowed "to plug in anything". I was told it was a union issue, and we would need to call someone if we wanted to plug something in. Sure enough, I asked one of the guys with a walkie talkie to plug something in for me, he was a member of the union. He told me he would have to call someone else. Ten minutes later, someone showed up to plug it in for me. Oh yeah, unions are great. Give me a break.

Michael,

I have to disagree with your data on labor unions. The latest Gallup poll puts support at 48% an all time low for overall support of labor unions (Sep 2009) and this has been tracked since 1937.

Michael

Link to your source for this would be nice. It looks to me like you are quoting from a publication but not giving your source for anyone to verify this information or the context in which it was written. So until you post a source for this information from which you quoted I will just have to assume you made it up.

Jim....I gave you two different polls to look at. But beyond that, there is common sense. Most intelligent people understand that the American middle class didn't just happen. It took worker solidarity to bring equity to the distribution of wealth in America. Without unions there would have never been a middle class.

Now only 7% of our workforce is unionized and the wealthiest 1% owns 48% of the wealth and the wealthiest 10% owns 90% of the wealth. At the same time average pay for working Americans has gone down by close to 25% since 1984 when adjusted for inflation.

Thirty eight million Americans now live at or below poverty and 48% of American workers don't make enough to pay income taxes.

The wealth distribution is so far off balance in this country that it bogles the mind, and yet there are out of work people who listen to Fox News and Rush Limbaugh that think it's all because unions and that the wealthy need even more money because it will trickle down to them. What a crock.

How about the teachers union in Milwaukee that is fighting because their health care package doesn't cover the cost of viagra. They call it a descriminatory practice. Further, when unions were created, there were almost no laws protecting their working conditions, age limits, etc. Unions were partly created to create an enviornment safe to work in. There was no minimum wage, etc. Most of these problems have been fixed. Now unions exist to inflate the wages and create power the workers to gain compensation and pensions beyond their value. I remember the hotel workers union striking in Chicago, even though they were among the highest paid in the nation. Pay raises for a job that a trained monkey could do? Get an education and make yourself indespensible.

Michael: I have never been in a union and quite frankly the majority of people I know have never been. All I hear are lies coming from the left and right. All I see or read are news articles that are biased. My bottom line is this: Has the programs/bills this administration/Democrats put in plced helped. NO!

ChiCity...how in the hell do you think all those worker benefits have been bestowed on non-union workers? They came from unon workers putting their lives (in many cases) on the line to fight for pay equity.

The non-union sector benefited from the union actions because they're employers had to be competitive with union shops. But now that most workers aren't unions there is no longer a need for employers to be competitive. That's why the average worker is making 27% less when adjusted for inflation than he/she did in 1985.

Do not try and villianize unions...If you are a working American you should be damned glad unions are here and you should be trying to move toward unions if you don't have one.

Michael -

From the way you are pushing the unions, my guess is that you belong to one. This being said, unions, at one time, did help. Today, however, they make it almost impossible to fire someone for cause, let alone for no reason.

Tell me, is it right that a person caught sleeping on the job and not doing the work they were hired to do gets to keep his job just because he belongs to a union? This has happened where I work. Sleeping on the job creates an unsafe condition for the worker and the employer. The particular time I am thinking of, the individual actually fell asleep sitting on top of a ladder! The foreman found him, left to find another witness and came back. He was still asleep! They tried to fire him and he cried to the union. He ended up keeping his job.

Enployees are made aware of the rules when they are hired. Not sleeping on the job is a pretty standard expectation for an employer.

Unions were originally formed to help protect the productive workers, not the deadweight. Today's unions tend to protect the deadweight because the productive workers no longer need the protection.

Id like to know which Union Michael Belongs to

Eric....but do you actually think the left wing is going to vote GOP to fix the mess the GOP created?

No Michael, they may not vote at all. Obama has tried to be Bush light, and expects everyone who voted for him to just sing his song and like it. That's why he is under 50% in the polls.

It was a tactical mistake , the right will never shine a smile on him. Yet , he keeps on trying to appease them and Wall Street & Big Business (really same group) . He has every right to lose his progressive base.

Scar...I agree...but I'll vote Dem, before I'll see the extreme right GOP drive us into a fascist state.

Yea, Michael , I'll vote Dem too. But not with a lot of conviction.

Taking the public option out of the Health bill and making it a insurance company windfall, was just an example.

Offering another Cafta was another.

Scar...you are right. The public option would have saved billions of dollars. I'm still hurting from that loss.

You guys go ahead and do that and then look at your kids and grandkids and tell them that they're doomed w/debt and they can don their government issued uniforms to report to their government issued jobs. Why can't you libs think??? Have you ever read the history of Germany and the rise of Hitler?? Odummo parallels it to the tee. Get off here and go do some reasearch. The first website I found on Odummo in 2005 after his keynote address at the Dem convention was The American Democratic Socialistic Society 1996. That told me a whole bunch about the guy!! Of course it was scrubbed. Go research.

And we all love the Huffinton Post with their CA leftist lib radicals ranting about who knows what? And of course CA is doing really good. So good to the point that they've run out of money for the upkeep of the turtle houses they built. And just like San Deigo, the schools had cut art, music, sports etc but...they had the money to "astheically enhance the town bridge". Come on you people, grow a brain.

Annie....you are kind of a drama queen....

AnnieRich :

Your Hero, Nixon took the last mineral support (gold) out of our money.

Your Hero , Reagan started the wholesale selling of our manufacturing base to China.

Your Hero, Bush deregulated Wall Street and the insurance companies. Encourage selling out to China.

Your Enemy, Clinton did the same thing, but at least left the budget neutral.

Your Hero, Bush2 started a war on false info that we are still paying billions for. And continued selling out to China.

Your enemy, Obama has continued Bush2's policies in Wall Street and elsewhere.

So, when every union is dead, all manufacturing is in a communist country or illegals , the sick die in the streets, you will finally attain the profit levels you believe are your American- Birthright.

Look at what you have built you fine patriot! http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/redseadragon/2009.htm

Actually it was in 1999 under Clinton where the deregulation happened with banks, insurance etc. That deregulation is what lead to companies "too big to fail".

Michael, I would suggest you drop the nazi references to your conservative opponents before Tyler burns your you know what.

Actually AZ you forgot : http://www.ehow.com/about_5413083_history-bank-deregulation.html the year 1980.

Not exactly...If it leans right, the Plutocrats will be the only ones issued life vests. If it leans left, life vests will be provided to all.

The way it has been scuttled by both sides, you all better hope there are life jackets

No matter, left or right, the suction from the ship will bring us all down with the Captain!

I myself have been union and non-union and have owned two businesses. Depends on which union your in whether the benefits are that great. Solidarity - yet when there is a layoff, no one volunteers to take a pay cut to keep their fellow workers working. No, they just work overtime. When the unions went on strike(Caterpillar, Firestone, and A.E. Staley's actually the Staley guys were locked out for sabotage,) here in my home town, they called it a war zone. We had 4 years of it. Think they made up the wages they lost by being off the job? No they went back to work for less than the original offer. Wonder why business would not want to locate here? Now, Firestone is gone along with the jobs and the tax base they created. Burks' pump is gone, Cash Valve is gone, Zexel-Valeo, all gone, Tate & Lyle formerly A E Staley's is planning on moving and taking 700 jobs with them. The unemployment rate here is 12.9% not including those whose benefits ran out or quit looking for work.

The Caterpillar workers that went on strike went back to work for less than was offered, and now the have SE employees that make less than half the wages as their coworkers, paying union dues with no representation from the union and the guys that voted for the contract. Yeah "taking care of the new guys coming up" my @ss!

Illinois also has a problem with raising corporate tax rates and then wondering why the businesses left in droves taking the jobs, tax base, taxes off of import and export goods, fuel taxes, employment taxes right along with them.

I seem to remember the union guys calling guys SCAB's for crossing their picket lines, yet had no problem going out under bidding construction workers that actually preformed those jobs for a living. Looks like it was a scab calling someone else a scab. Last time I checked the UAW, USW, Teamsters, and any other you would like to add, only write the checks for their support staff, the employer signs your check!

Tab. L, the truth hurts doesn't it. I guess if you were offended by Gibb's comments then you are part of the radical professional left. I pity you. You and your comrades are in for a terrible drubbing in November and your Savior Obama will not even run for reelection (if we don't impeach him first.)

Annie...If progressives are communists then right wing conservatives are fascists. I don't think you'll find a progressive that favors communism, but you will find many who favor socialist democracies like in Europe. Socialist democracies have brought far more equality to the working class.

And Michael that is exactly where you are WRONG! Quit drinking the koolaid. Let me guess your age. 20-something??? "Equality to the working class". Socialism. And you're in favor of that??? Why?? Why in the world would you want to trade this nation of ours with our liberties to achieve what you want and can do, for Socialism and the Spreading of Wealth?? How would you feel if you went out tomorrow, started a company, worked endless hours made a lot of money and someone turned to you and said, "uh....all that money you just worked your a$$ off for..uh...you're going to give half of it to george over there. Now I know that george hasn't worked a lot, but we're spreading the wealth". Is that what you want?? Well, that's what you're getting. How about we all just sit on our a$$es and let someone else take care of us all and then they can TELL YOU WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO??

China is communist. The right has encouraged sending our production there for decades. They like communists that make them money. The don't like socialists that would cost them in social support for the unemployed (that they caused) or sick. It's a simple equation! Come on , let's support Annie's Country Club. Screw the working people! Let them Eat Cake!

Donkey Pong, you richly deserve to be banned from posting your radical, racist comments here. People like you need to get a life and knock that chip off of your shoulders. Please stop being a victim and make something out of your life. Don't depend on the government to take care of you. This is just another form of slavery. Wake up, you are being used by the progressives for their own socialist agenda.

Bill CT, don't you have a life? Why don't you actually watch Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity and hear what they are saying. Some of it may open your eyes to the truth about Obama. The party of "No" is going to beat the socialists party in November in a way that will send you into a fetal position of thumb sucking, moaning and groaning. How will you stand it? I suggest you move to Canada. It's just a little north of CT and you will enjoy Obamacare on steroids and will HAVE to pay taxes. Enjoy and cheers.

Greek --Proven liars are a waste of time...TO be ignored even if you have a free hour in your day..Better use of time to read a book or volunteer for a food bank! That way, at the very least ,you could learn something!

ROFL....FOX NEWS is the American media....ROFL

Hah...That must mean that the National Enquirer is America's paper media. ROFL!

You know what Haden: there's age differences in thinking. The other thing in play here are the 20-somethings in this country who were taught, "everyone-gets-a-trophy". No one wins, no one loses, no one excels, no one achieves. They're ALL the same. Well, that's pure socialism. Just talk to some of them. I have at work. "Well, the wealthy should be taxed more!" And I ask why. "Because they have the money". "OH...so if you went out and worked really, really hard and made a bunch of money then you're going to give half to me? Right?" "uh...uh...." So you see, there's been a gradual implementation of this train of thought with the young. And until you really point these ideas out to them they don't THINK! Look at CA?? I mean really. What a waste of a beautiful state. Those people and up through Oregon and the state of Washinton, I mean really. They traded school classes for the beautification of the bridge not to mention the turtle houses. I like turtles too but if I'm not paying my bills the turtles are going to have to wait.

Michael, how much stock do oyu own in Fox? You mention them in all of your posts.

And then there's Annie Rich's unknown generation of Dobson followers who thinks all children should be beat with a stick or strap or fist or whatever. Maybe Annie was a product of the stern father, beat em and strap em philosophy. That might explain why s/he seems to come up with these incredible accusations about 20 something Americans.

Oh....what have we left the twenty something folks....A world that is dying and outsourced jobs to China and India and low paying jobs left in America....Swell. Just swell.

SoazDan...I just call it like I see it....The Fox News fans all sound the same. Mostly they are full of hate and a skewed sense of reality.

Fox News has some nice babes. On the other hand...CNN, MSNBC and the networks generally have women who look like Pelosi twins.

Michael, have you ever watched the O'Reilly factor?

Fox news has more viewers than the rest combined, they must be doing something right.

I myself, channel surf between FOX, MSNBC, and CNN. The people I see complaining about FOX never have seem to have a problem with MSNBC's slanted news from Maddow, Olbermann and Ed and their tireless rants about the right, or Bush. The opposite is true for the right as well. It took both parties to get this country into the shape it is in. Fools like you continue fighting over the table scraps while the Government empties the cupboards. No wonder the Independents are growing in numbers, as neither side represents the people. Right now, the Democrats are the Party in charge, owning the House, the Senate and the White House. Yet complain that the Republicans won't help them pass their agenda. The Republicans cannot really stop anything the Democrats wanted to pass from passing. That lies at the feet of the Democrat party. The Change people wanted is not what they received. The Republicans have nothing to crow about, as they have helped shove this country in the ditch. It matters not who's driving, we cannot afford to fix the car. Both sides have been paid off by political cronies and lobbyists, yet complain the other party did it and point fingers. Americans did not put these assclowns in control to enrich themselves, yet that is what has happened. They both buy your votes with your own damn money.