I can't believe these so-called conservatives who are bitching and moaning about the deficit are now willing to continue tax cuts for anyone period. HOW YOU GOING TO PAY FOR THEM DEMINT???????????? BORROW MORE FROM COMMUNIST CHINA???

I'll gladly give up my measley $35.00 per week if it will end these tax cuts Bush rammed down America's throat during two endless and unpaid for wars???????

Hey navy, cutting expenditures is paying for tax cuts. It's all money, even if it's just numbers on paper or computer programs. Using the money saved by cutting inefficient and wasteful programs is the money not taken in taxes. Therefore the taxes are paid for. Calling someone a twit only makes you seem very angry, not logical.

thats right. there is no compromise. either the rich people get a tax break, or they dont.

as far as im concerned, the way it goes down is this: either everyone gets it, or nobody gets it. the compromise therefore IS letting the ridiculous cuts the rich get expire.

otherwise, ill be happy to pay an extra grand and watch rich people pay an extra $100,000 (sadly, they could probably afford that $100k more than i can that $1k...)

Navyvet 98 is right. Waste and fraud account for a huge part of the cost of social programs which are here to stay in some form. Let's make an honest effort to root out that kind of waste instead of looking for new sources of money to fund it. It probably won't happen as long as Dems and Repubs keep trying to blame each other and not working together.

@Everett W Springer - would you still be willing to give up your $35.00 per week if you knew it was going into the 0bama family vacation slush fund, or some other wasteful project(s)? Personally, I wouldn't mind letting the tax cuts expire, but ONLY if the money that is generated goes towards paying down the deficit. The government needs to learn how to "balance their checkbook" before I'm willing to keep blindly handing them my $$'s!! Their wasteful spending is like an addiction, and We The People have become enablers by handing them our tax dollars w/o demanding accountability as to what the money is being spent on!! JMHO of course.

Navy: not paying for tax cuts is how $11T in debt was run up under JUST the last 3 GOP presidents--- from less than $1T to $11.9T. They have endangered national security and the American standard of living thru repeated tax cuts, most of which went to the monied elite! Wont you be SO HAPPY if/when the US defaults or goes into a terminal economic spiral?? And to think the GOP propaganda machine managed to bamboozle to many voters into thinking repubs would change! And all this was done to achieve a political goal: elminating/privatizing SS, medicare etc!

Federal and state income tax. Dividend/investment tax. Property tax. Utility taxes(electricity, gas, water, cell phone, telecom). Inheritance tax. Sales tax. Gasoline/energy tax. Excise tax. Social Security tax. Unemployment tax. Social medicine tax. Recycling/environmental tax.

Stupid Americans are so used to being overtaxed that a small tax reduction is a cause for celebration. Americans, indeed, are sheeps.

Having slowly gained power during the last 50 years, the socialist and communist are in favor of more taxes to feed the monstrous Big Government so as to destroy this once wealthy nation.

Under the socialist/communist rulers within the Big Federal and local government, America has gone bankrupt despite several trillions of dollar loans from China and Japan. America's auto and financial industry are on life-support while its consumer goods manufacturing is basically dead. Record numbers of Americans are without jobs amidst record home foreclosures.

The monstrous Big Government is so desperate and hungry that its friendly Federal Reserve must monetizing government debt regardless of destroying the American currency. When the world's business no longer accept the US Dollar as a legitimate currency, the American socialist/communist would have succeeded in destroying America that the former Soviet Union could only dreamed of.

Like docile sheeps, Americans do not know the slaughter that awaits them, courtesy of the traitors in Big Government.

Taxes need to stay as they are so businesses will be able to plan ahead and start hiring again, without the security of knowing what the bottom line will be unemployment will stay the same. This is no a Tax break, the money was"never" there to loose, they didn't have to borrow because of Taxes it was because of their own greed.If they let the Taxes expire "We" get a big hike in Taxes, and the money will go for more spending for "them". I know better than they do how to spend my money!!! :)

This is the choices. Let the cut expire and watch things get worse or extend the cuts that keeps the current lukewarm environment. What about an option that will actually solve the problem?

As I recall, the top tax rate was over 60% back when Richard Nixon was our President. What is so difficult with getting the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes? Everyone gets taxed the same rate on their first $30K or $50K worth of annual income, as does anyone fortunate enough to make $100K. Anyone earning above a certain amount should have to pay a greater share on the portion of their income above certain lower-rate break points.

Maybe I could see a partial rollback of the increase for individuals earning between $200K and maybe $500K, but on incomes over $500 K who cares? Certainly not the vast majority of us. These people only rarely spend their extra income in a manner that benefits the average American consumer anyway. These people drive imported luxury cars that do not benefit any of us Americans, they take overseas vacations that do not benefit us, they live in huge houses that only benefit a few custom home builders and the occasional service staff member, they buy stocks and other investments with the primary goal of growing their wealth, and they buy woefully overpriced yachts that provide little "trickle-down" benefit for the American worker. The theory of Trickle-Down economics floating all boats is a myth, it does not happen that way. The rich get richer and everyone else has less and less of a chance to better their lives. One of the reasons to have taxes in the first place is to attempt to re-balance income inequities, a problem that has been getting worse and worse since Jimmy Carter was our President.

I have a really simple idea for a tax code: How about a 15% national sales tax with no deductions, including a 15% tax on US income taken overseas, along with a simple surtax of 10% on incomes between $100K and $250 K, a 15% surtax on incomes between $250K and $500K, a 20% surtax on incomes between $$500K and $1 Million, and a 25% surtax on incomes above $1 Million? I might re-create the mortgage interest deduction on a primary residence as some kind of tax credit. I would also keep some kind of capital gains law with the ability to protect from that law real estate sales where the income is reinvested, along with a one-time capital gains exemption on $500 K worth of income from the sale of a primary home after the age of 55.

I could also see a permanent death tax in the range of 15% for estates under $100K, 20% for estates between $100 K and $250K, 25% for estates between $250K and $500K, 30% for estates between $500K and $1 Million, 35% for estates between $1 Million and $5 Million, and 40% above $5 Million, also with no ability to protect any portion of the estate from taxation.

Over the last 40 years the inequity in annual salary between the wealthiest 10% of Americans and the middle third of incomes has gone from a 25 to 1 difference to a 250 to 1 difference. This time frame corresponds with the reduction in the top tax rate from 67% to 33%. The trickle-down economics of wealthy America do not act to increase the incomes of the middle class or the many less-fortunate among us either What we need is a re-establishment of fairness in our American tax code with a goal of enlarging the numbers of us earning a solid middle-class income while reducing the numbers of the obscene rich.

As it stands right now, my own estate would be in my proposed 25% death tax rate, and my income level has been between $50K and $200K for more than the last decade. I work hard and work long hours for my money, with often 60-hour workweeks, and I have historically contributed a fair amount of my income to charity too. I don't think that there is any question that the amount of effort put forth by some among us is highly over-compensated, and there needs to be a goal of fairness for the vast majority of us whose incomes keep falling behind. My spending power in 1982 when I had 3 years of experience in my industry out of school was 50% higher then than my income is now with 31 years of experience in my field. Imagine everyone across the board, including the wealthiest among us, being forced to live on 2/3rds of what we used to earn 28 years ago, adjusted for inflation? What is fair for the goose ought to be fair for the gander too.

There is NO plausible reason that the wealthiest among us should get any kind of extended tax cut, no matter what our economic circumstance is at present. There can be no justification for putting ourselves another $700 Billion into the red just so that the wealthiest among us can keep getting richer at the great expense of so many others among us. How about a return to a top tax rate of 50%? I myself think that would be a lot fairer to the many among us that have seen our incomes continuously fall for the last 30 years while the rich just keep getting richer.

FatCat.. are you including yourself as one of the sheep or are you the one American that's immune to it all? Can you tell us what form the slaughter is going to take? cuz now you've got me worried.

So you want to Penalize people who did well in life and make more than 250,000k a year to pay for more entitlement programs and welfare? Yeah that sounds like capitalism to me. The redistribution of wealth was a theory advocated by every communist and socialist. Guess what those economic systems failed. They do not provide incentives for people to work. This country was built on the idea that you work for what you have. Not handouts. Why we don't adopt the fair tax and tax everyone the same is ridiculous.

Independent, it sure looks like it is Capitalism that is failing these days.

Handouts?? What the Hell do you call the $1.8T+ tax cut for the wealthy?? It's the largest transfer of wealth in the country's history? Remember, this past congressional session saw the GOP filibuster tax breaks for small businesses FIFTEEN TIMES!!!! And any nitwit who thinks fraud is a "HUGE part" of the costs of entitlements is either lying or incredibly ignorant on the issue! GOP says we cant be adding to the debt; yet they favor extending tax cuts for their buddies that adds $700B to the debt! I dont think Americans will like that very much--the hypocricy smells to high heaven! Tax cuts for the wealthy whould END!!! They've alredy ripped off the American public for FAR too much money already!! WE've been HAD!!!

The top and bottom are well off compared to the middle. Both parties have forsaken the middle or what should be the middle.

As with Health Care its not the top or the bottom thats hurting its the middle.

Outsourcing was a way around middle American problems. Work arounds are lazy.

Only wage earners pay for the top tax brackets. The rich get most of their income from capital gains that the middle class cannot afford to invest in. Capital gains is a loophole that allows the rich to only pay 15% tax on their investments as long as they hold them for over a year. Do away with capital gains and get rich of earned income credit and you are well on your way to a much fairer tax system.

Tom in NH-294381,

So much for the Democratic Concept of Equality.

The Rich Juden are the Cause of the Fatherland's Problems - the Democraptic Party and Union Workers of Germany, Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, NSDAP, aka the SA and NAZI Party.

Everett W Springer - Bush rammed down America's throat during two endless and unpaid for wars???????

1980s US Military Training Teams from Germany to Iraq for the Iran Iraq Wars this became Operation Iraqis Freedom under President Clinton's Law (Declaration of War) ,H.R.4655, as declaring the Overthrow of another Nation's Sovereign Government is a Declaration of War according to the UN, 1907 Hague Convention, 1949 Geneva Convention, International Laws, this was to adhere to the 1973 War Powers Resolution. 1980s US Military Training Teams from Germany to Pakistan to train the Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen as demanded by Senator Charles Wilson Democrat Texas. Bush was not the President during the 1980s.

Grow up this is not instant gratification, this crap took years to start. And currently both Iraq and Afghanistan are UN Mission (as to why everyone else wants to quit, or is quitting, as experience from previous UN Failures).

navyvet98 - You don't pay for a Tax-cut you twit. You cut expenditures for all of the inefficient and wasteful social programs.

exactly, and jaden-461877 just because you don't have anything to say you have and do not understand English you have to attempt to spell @!$%# out that navyvet98 already stated.

with this administration proving that they have NO intent of actually solving anything while playing the blame game. example: demonize the insurance corporations prior to the Health Care Reform, and instead of removing them from the Medical Profession the Demoncraps reward them.

The demonization by (and actually stating the real Causes of high costs):

Obama on 'Face the Nation' September 20, 2009

Obama: No, the difference is that they're making huge profits on it, Bob. I mean, let's take the Medicare HMO programs that are being run by insurance companies. It's estimated by everybody that they're overcharging by about 14 percent. This amounts to about $177 billion over 10 years. About $17 billion a year, $18 billion a year. That's just going to pad their profits, hasn't been shown to make Medicare recipients any healthier. And in fact because those huge subsidies are going to insurance companies, Medicare recipients are not getting a good deal. Now if we are enforcing what should be the rules around Medicare and making sure the people are getting a bang for the buck, it's not going to be possible for insurance companies to simply pass on those costs to Medicare recipients because ultimately it's Uncle Sam that's paying for those services anyway.

And unrealistically, who does the President think is "Uncle Sam" in this context, that's right it is all us Taxpayers.

So instead of removing the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession with the result being like the President FDR Universal Health Care:

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video 1:40) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

So instead of a real solution for Health Care (Medical Profession), we get payback for Insurance Corporation Campaign Contributions by the Demoncraps. President Obama's Closed Door White House Meetings even before the Health Care Reform was written by Congress.

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

And before any of you Repugnants, Demoncraps, In Depends (Adult Diapers) b!tch. Most US Military Officers are Apolitical (as our careers span 20 years, multiple different political parties terms), as when there is a political party regime change if you are partisan you are also subject to being ousted. It is also by training and experience that most of us (seeing things from external) can see after gathering as much verifiable (multiple independent sources) information and coming up with anticipated (viable) courses of action(s).

As the Repugnants, Demoncraps, In Depends (Adult Diapers) MUST:

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea
The Price Tag Of Politics

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

Instead of fixing the real cause of the 60-100 Trillion USDs "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Wall Street Crisis", "Mortgage Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Credit Crisis", etc. we get a lame Law that repeats the same mistakes at Regulation of the causes that failed from 1907 to 1933, with the Lawmakers (Congress) finally making the Causes of the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression, completely Illegal with the Glass Steagall Acts. The successful (1933 to 2000) Glass Steagall Acts were removed by President Clinton and the Repugnants with those knowing the consequences (smart enough to research) making Millions (near Billions of USDs) of the possible $634 Trillion USDs (the profits that needed to be paid triggered the "Global Economic Crisis" and will trigger the next "Crisis" of $54.6 Trillion USDs). This is why the November December 2008 Billion USDs Bailouts as passed by the Demoncraptic Party Controlled Congress did not do anything as Billions do not pay for Trillions of USDs, and instead was used to buy the January 2009 Electoral College Votes (Businessweek article pertaining to physical locations of Bailout recipients and the correlation to the physical locations of the Electoral College Votes).

Janie Ackerly,

They (all Political parties) did not have to loot the US Taxpayer contributions out of Social Security either, as if Social Security is Congress's piggy bank. Like how States dump as much dedicated money into the State's General Fund (no accountability). Example: the Product Liability Class Action Lawsuit Against Tobacco, which by intent of the Laws and Settlement, must be used to treat those users of the Product, not Federal and State Entitlement Programs (no matter how noble the Entitlement) nor redecoration of Professional Politicians (especially State's) Offices. Especially, since most State's hold interests in the Tobacco Corporations.

The only possible "Middle Ground" pertaining to State and Federal Taxes is a Flat Tax for All. And Deportations of all the over 23 million Illegal Aliens in the US. As stated by La Raza, M.E.Ch.A., etc. "Cash for Work Only", as employer paperwork means more deductions, less money, and more apprehensions and deportations, criminally called Tax Evasion (same way the US Government seized most of Las Vegas from "Organized Crime" as a Legal Precedent). This can be accomplished by Executive Order just like the successful President Eisenhower "Operation Wetback" the apprehensions and deportations of millions of Illegal Aliens (another Legal Precedent).

sounds like all navyvets are still out too sea. not but one payer and he/she is called taxpayer.

First, let’s get it straight that Bush’s tax cuts were not made permanent because the cuts were not paid for (Cheney had to cast the tie-breaking vote). As a result, the surplus immediately turned into a deficit.

Incomes for the richest 2% grow five times faster than everyone else during Republican administrations (e.g., Bush/Cheney), and in proportion to the debt. During Democratic administrations (e.g., Clinton) when the top rate was at 39.6%, incomes grew about the same for everyone. If cuts expired for the richest 2% these folks would be just fine, just as they were prior to Bush’s tax cuts.

An extension of Bush’s tax cuts for the richest 2% would result in the rich getting richer, while the standard of living continues to go down for the remaining 98% working class. And in fact, the weakened economy is precisely why the tax cuts should expire for the rich. Without that revenue, deficits will continue to skyrocket and the economy will be hurt by it. As economists say, this is not about ideology. It’s about the math.

Also most so-called “small businesses” are doctors, lawyers, and investment bankers who do NOT CREATE JOBS. Tax cuts don’t create jobs either. We’ve had Bush’s tax cuts for 10 years, and look where it got us. During Bush, job creation barely kept pace with population growth. Get your facts straight!

And if you want to know why Social Security is in trouble, it’s because the richest 5% only pay FICA on the first $100,000 or so. If they paid a flat tax (i.e. their fair share) just on Social Security alone, everything would be solvent. Also companies like Exxon Mobil, that offshore from the Caymen Islands or what have you pay NO taxes.

Who out there does not understand that they are not, I repeat not talking about more tax cuts for anybody. They are talking about continuing with the same taxes we, as the United States as a whole, have been paying since the Congress enacted the Bush tax cuts. They worked quite well for more than four years when the Democrats took over Congress and government spending began increasing exponentially.

Okay, let's go ahead and continue the tax cuts for the under $250K multitudes and just put a moratorium on the over $250K group. When unemployment does not go down and probably continues on its upward climb, then the Democrats can eat crow and follow the lead of the Republicans and discontinue the moratorium.

If you are too stupid to know what the tax cuts mean you should beg for your dumb A## to get an individual tax increase. The point is that they need to discontinue spending and work for quality spending. If we are short of money in our home budget we either cut spending, get a second job or fail. So far they have failed in the last 3 and one-half years. Thanks libs for your poor quality job. Now is't time to start the economy again so when you get your next chance you can destroy another good thing.

gerald from ga - sounds like all navyvets are still out too sea. not but one payer and he/she is called taxpayer.

Uninformed post. As the US Military pays Federal Taxes; but, must remain silent (Apolitical) as to how Revenues are used.

J.WESLEY

I'd like to agree with you but I just can't; any change to the SS and Medicare must be gradual and not include the people who are currently on SS or Medicare.

For the record I am not on SS, and won't be for a while, but I do defend those who need SS to survive. Some people would starve to death if it weren't for SS, surely there are more compassionate ways to cut the spending. Social Security would not be in trouble if it weren't for all the borrowing of the funds from congress. I am sure there are many ways to cut spending.

Plus, there are ways to increase revenue as well, for instance:

Increase an excise tax on all imports to our nation, like China.

Charge non-citizens large taxes for receiving an education in our country.

All illegals, get sent back to where they came from.

If other countries use our military, they must pay for it! Including the UN.

Any nation that will not support American exports, then we will not accept their imports period..

Allow non-government employees to work with congress to help cut the budget, these individuals must have shown they have economic and financial savvy.

We need to stop giving other foreign countries billions of dollars and use that money toward the debt. We have spread ourselves too thin for too long and that needs to stop.

Simplify and make federal tax the same for all! 5% personal income and 10% corporate income - no matter where you live, where you manufacture or do business. Forget the deduction B.S. altogether.

NO tax cuts for the Elite, plus take-away all of their tax loopholes!

Hey People stop the Bull about giving tax cuts to the Elite and unions costing loss of America Exports and for jobs moving oversea and why most Americans are getting poorer!

German wages are far greater then USA union worker plus larger pensions, Health care for life, shorter work weeks and many more days off.

Germany exports far more than its import and is the 2^nd largest importer of goods to America.

The different is that Germany Elites and Government care about all their follow working countrymen.

You do not see 300,000+ multi-millionaires and 1000s of billionaires and of those with many billions in Germany like you see in the USA!

The problems and fixes:

1) Were spending too much on the Military, including to support the Elite’s World-Wide Holdings.

2) Allowing the American Elite to take 75% of all income and needing 20% growth each year while the American Workers, (White or Blue Collars), gets far less and less each year.

3) We are allowing Wall Street Fund Managers to make billion dollar yearly incomes and taxing them at Capital gain rate of 15% and the CEO type that takes most of their yearly income in stock type transactions so their many Millions and Billions are tax at the 15% rates.

4) Why are Wall Streeters, Lawyers, CEO types, Bankers and owners of Hospitals allow to make so much of the American pie.

5) Why do we allow the Elite with millions and billions in yearly stock income to be taxed at 15%, should not we have limits for stock gains to be taxed at 15%, say up to $500,000 a year or a Life time max of $10 million at most?

6) To fix the American problem you need more people making good income with good pensions and healthcare so they have more funds to buy goods, not reducing income and bennies. We need to stop the Republican and Teabagger bull! Think about supply and demand---if people do not have the funds to purchase goods and services, (no demand), there will be no increase in business employment, (Supply), even if you give the Elite ZERO income tax rates.

7) As our founding father noted, we should stop giving Foreign Countries billions, building Countries, being the world’s police force and spending like we do on Embassies and military bases all over the world. No more free Police service to any foreign country, which is really in place to support the Elites holdings world-wide. Why is America a 2^nd UN all by itself?

8) Free trade should be replaced with Fair Trade. Example---In the Philippines they get most of their money from their people working in America and sending the Green back to the Philippines. But in the Philippines you can’t sent their money to America nor is their money traded on the Foreign exchange, so they can set whatever exchange rate they wish. Also like most Asia counties all business and land can only be 49% foreigner owned at max.

Plus they have mostly a 10% import tax on goods but you cannot get import permits for most goods if you are not within their Elite ranking, so they price American Goods 300% to 400% more than in America and no one buys---since their Elite charges only about 50% more for local and China junk over the cost of the higher quality goods sold at American prices in America.. The American higher cost of goods is not due to shipping cost, which cost about $3,000 for a 40 foot container from America to Asia, so if you break the shipping cost to units that would be in the 1% to 3% add on per item. We need to place import taxes on foreign goods to America equal to their local Government supported markup of American Goods in their country. The hell with being Mr. Nice Guy or should I say Sucker!

9) If we do the above noted items in cost reduction, taxing and Fair trade, we can start a Central Universal healthcare system for all Americans and pay off our deficit very fast. This would also reduce medical cost big-time, plus take away business paying for Healthcare, which would reduce cost of goods not only in American but also for export---American be made stronger!

To fix the American problem you need more people making good income with good pensions and healthcare so they have more funds to buy goods, not reducing income and bennies. We need to stop the Republican and Teabagger bull! Think about supply and demand---if people do not have the funds to purchase goods and services, (no demand), there will be no increase in business employment, (Supply), even if you give the Elite ZERO income tax rates.

This is only true to an extent. We import more than we export. This outflow of dollars contributes to the ills our country has. I say we need to tax the wealthy that have sent our jobs overseas. And tax those wall street super gamblers who put us in that big hole in 2008. Now, I am sure these wealthy do not break the law per se. They research the law and then they loophole it. Yes, we do need to crack down on fraud, but our money is basically flowing out of this country to their off-shore bank accounts, so that they don't have to pay thair fair share of taxes. We need to get tough on these UnAmericans. I for one am sick and tired of the middle class having the poor as well as the superwealthy on their backs.

Under Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, the more money you made, the lower your tax rate. As it stands today, you could be earning a mere 20,000 a year and actually have a higher tax rate that the shlemiel making 20,000 a month.

http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010/10/05/f_mpw_buffett_taxes.fortune/

I would give tax cuts for the wealthy. Most wealthy people own businesses that employ people, right? I would give them an abundance of tax cuts but there's a caveat. "You must create JOBS in order to get them". Everyone and I mean everyone in this country should have a fair chance at getting a job. Plain and simple, getting a job. If I were Washington, I would give huge tax incentives to all businesses to HIRE. Plain and simple, HIRE.

This is amazing all of the economists writing their opinion without a clue of how the government operates.

1) Social Security - designed to have taxes paid go to an inaccessible account. But in the 1970's that money never got there thanks to the Dems. They had to have it to spend somewhere else.

2) The postal service - This organization has been loosing money for decades. With the advancement of the internet needs to be privatized.

Starting to see a pattern yet??

Government tells you they have to pay for tax cuts. Is like you taking a pay cut without have to trim your spending. Everyone knows we the people have to live within our means. But the government never accepts less they just borrow more.

Our Government cannot run anything properly. Just look at examples 1 and 2 and ask yourself is this where our health care is headed.

garcher.....You got it right about Social Security, but they ended up paying it out to way too many people who never paid into it. This was not its intent. Now they don't give an annual increase because it's based on the Consumer Price Index...but...Congressmen and all government workers get a raise. The Social Security should be based on the types of expenses that retired people have. This would be different from the Consumer Price Index. Things DO cost more now than they did a year ago.

The Postal Service is financially independent from the government. They are not very efficient and they do outsource services that make them more efficient. They lose money for a year or two but then they get a rate increase and get back out of the hole temporarily. Their rate increases are getting larger and more frequent because they can't compete with the private sector. I will always chose an alternative to using the US Postal Service. I've seen them in action first hand.

Why all the whining about tax "cuts"?

Don't you WorkSpend robots know that you need to pay the babysitter?

You don't raise taxes during a recession economy--even if the recession allegedly is over. That has been tried. Been there; done that. The last time that was done during hard economic times was during the administration of Herbert Hoover.

Does anyone remember her/his history??? It was called the Great Depression. Does anyone really want a repeat of that history? They must if they are even considering dooming themselves to the possibility of such as that.

It is said that people who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. If you think recession is bad, wait until you experience economic depression! You will long for the good times of the recession of 2007-2009. And, that, you can take to the bank!

everet w springer, I wont even give you a history lesson on how this situation came to be, being the typical lib you wouldnt understand or listen, What I really want to know is will this prez EVER figure out that he`s a piece of s**t??

I am a Democrat, a Progressive, a Liberal and have been described by some as a member of the Professional Left. If Obama caves to the Republicans on extending Bush Era unfunded, borrowed from the Chinese tax breaks for the undeserving top 2% even for a year or two (sounds permanent to me) I will "NOT" vote for him in 2012 or the other idiot! This is morally, fiscally and politically irresponsible and obscene! What is wrong with this man!

We need to let the tax cust expire and then President Obama can design one for the middle class only! Why would he renew Bush tax cuts when Bush no longer is the President. How stupid? Antoher thing Smalls business do not create jobs. Supply and demand create jobs. If the middle class has more money they will spend more which will create jobs. How simple that is. Read your books.

No compromise, let the Bush tax cuts expire!

david-475776, That is the "best" I have read, excellent stuff. Liberals seethe when they hear intelligence with facts and a voice of reason, "poor bass-turds"

Rickeroo - because we are tired of the baby sitters making +$100K per year, while the average US house hold income is less than $47,000. Then the greedy/bit.ch baby sitter whines about us paying them more...... (increase taxes, let tax cuts expire, etc.)

http://fedupusa.org/2010/01/07/how-much-does-the-average-american-make-breaking-down-the-u-s-household-income-numbers/

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

Tank Carson: Very well said, one question though, Why are you surprised?, how could you not know what was wrong with this guy before you fkd up & voted for him?? how could you not possibly know "exactly" what he was going to do?? Take intelligence one step further next time & use it before you fkn vote . You are a man insulted? you fkd up.
FUH_HUK!!

I'm not "Tank" but to answer your question about Obama, some of us voted for him because he was the lesser of two evils. I'd do it again too, especially if it came down to Obama vs. Palin or Jeb. It'd be like a prisoner's choice between gas chamber or lethal injection--both are bad but one is worse.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It will not matter if these tax cuts are permanent, temporary or voted away with altogether. As long as there are loopholes in the tax system, the people that can afford a tax attorney will be able to take advantage of them. Close these loopholes, then see how much money is in the tax system. If we then need to restructure the tax system, then do so. But see where we're at first.

The truth that these leftist don't want you to know is that the deficit is the result of people voting themselves largess out of the treasury. You fix the deficit by pulling socialism up by the roots.

Two parent households are only necessary because half your income is being siphoned off to Washington. Prices are being artificially inflated by anti-competitive actions masking as regulation and government market manipulation. This isn't help they are providing instead it is the government making us poor at the behest of special interest groups that could care less about your welfare.

You fix the deficit by pulling socialism up by the roots.

You're like a broke FOX fat cat record. The economy is in a mess because of YOUR rich man's fraud. You people decided to offer up fake investments and then robbed Americans of their hard earned money. Nothing has happened to even remotely promote socialism. The corporate stealing from this country along with the corporate fraud has left us devastated like never before and not a one of you has gone to jail like you deserve. Yet, you want us to pay for your fraud, for your wars, for your government subsidies, for your CORPORATE WELFARE. Well mr. Socie. Think again. I would rather pay higher taxes than allow the fat GOP use me as their hostage in order to pursue tax cuts for their rich buddies who bought them off in the election.

You do not see 300,000+ multi-millionaires and 1000s of billionaires and of those with many billions in Germany like you see in the USA!

No because the govt. took it away from them and gave them no incentive to actually make money. Is that what you want for the US?

The spend-aholic Democrats' mouths are watering at the prospect of having all that money to spend. They can't efficiently spend what they have now, why should we give them more to squander? You don't give an alcoholic a fifth and "hope" he doesn't partake. The govt has a proven track record of waste and fraud. No way we should give them more to squander.

Additionally, we still are missing the point concerning job creation. Without increased orders, there is no need to hire new employees. Where are the orders? Overseas. Nothing has been done to correct this. Instead our govt. is dumping billions into "green technology." The results have not made a profit and cannot be sustained without infusions of govt. money. That is not good business. The money would have better spent, by not being spent in the first place.

Tax reductions and the health care disaster do factor into job creation, but orders are number 1!

Reading through this is just scary!!!! Why should any one person in this country provide more than anyone else for the Government? Our Government has already proven that it will change the principles of our founder without a second thought by investing in private business. Now there are folks out there who wish to take away reasonable incentive for the private sector to earn money but also to invest for a reasonable rate of return.

Here is a thought. How about a simplification of the tax code. Drop all exclusions. Anyone over the age of 18 making over $20,000 a year pays 15% of their income in tax. The only exclusion would be toward education where a wage earner could write off or exclude the money they earn that to pay for current costs of their education. Any individual can have four years of this exclusion and beyond that they should be in a place to actually pay for Membership in America.

IF the Government cannot function on the income from taxes from a larger pool a people then the Government needs to cut their own cost and stop draining the public dry.

It seems our brain trust wishes to make sure they are re-elected by assuring that the masses that use services do not have to pay. It is time everyone holds a fair share of responsibility to the operation of the Government.

we cant afford $700B more added to the debt!!!

Or if the tax cuts for the top two brackets continue, (which looks hightly likely) then we cut $70B a year from existing spending. I could do that in my sleep and with a $3.5T budget, you wouldn't even miss it.

Can someone explain why this vine was collapsed? Personally, I don't agree with much that has been said here but people certainly have the right to offer their solutions without someone getting offended and having the control to silence polite discord.

If you disagree by all means participate in the conversation.

txmom - I think it was collapsed as it was so hateful, and some were very much off-topic. Additionally, history has show that Tom's solution (tax the wealthy more) in Post #1 doesn't work.

navyvet65:

Post WWI Weimar Republic destroyed its currency with hyperinflation. In desperation, people voted into power a demogogue who ultimately directly and indirectly slaughtered millions of Germans as well as others.

Even after borrowing $2trillion from the Chineses and Japanese, America is broke, can't pay its bills without the Federal Reserve monetizing government debt. Bailouts, social programs, interest payments, social security, national defense, and basic government expenses total over $30trillion in IOUs, today.

America is running out of borrowed money and running out of borrowed time. Without money, the US Navy can't sail, AirForce is grounded, and the Army immobilized. Is that what imploded the former Soviet Union?

Seems many of you want to eliminate the tax cuts for the wealthy who will then have less money to build factories to hire you. Did you ever get a really good job from a poor or middle class guy?

I haven't.

Juno - It hasn't worked for the last ten years. What makes you think it will work now?

That's funny, were they creating jobs while the tax cuts were in place? No? Well, there goes that BS argument.

Keeper - if you don't have the income you don't spend. We haven't had a responsible enough congress since the 1999 & 2000 budget writers.

OMFG!!! Let all the Bush tax cuts expire.

cutting expenditures is paying for tax cuts.

The total cost of all the of the tax cuts is about $3.7 trillion dollars over ten years. Moreover the last ten years of cuts were not covered by offsetting cuts or econonmic growth. Please outline your plan for $6.4 trillion in spending cuts over the next ten years to pay for the total cost of the tax cuts.

I like Schumer's idea, $1 million is a good threshold especially that it affects small businesses.

Have any of you ever studied economics at all? Even a liberal moderator pointed out to Obama that when taxes on the wealthy and capital gains taxes are lower, ironically there is more money flowing into the nations coffers to, among other things, reduce the deficit. He then asked Obama how he could justify increasing taxes on the very wealthy when lowering their taxes actually produced more revenue to reduce debt. He answered, "for fairness." In other words Obama would rather persue a tax policy that punished successful people while producing less revenue for the tax coffers.

This seems paradoxical to some of you no doubt, but it is a fact proven by years of both high and low taxes on the rich in income and capital gains taxes. Here's the way it works. Say an ultrarich man in your town decides to start yet another company and plans to hire xyz numbers of emplyees (who will make money and pay taxes if hired), Because the taxes are currently low on all tax brackets (not just the Bush wealthy as Obamaites would have you believe) then they make money (paying income taxes) plan to buy big Christmas presents for their families (payng sales taxes) and the clerks who were unemployed make money (paying income taxes) and the spend it creating yet more jobs and more tax revenue per income produced and so on.

What if Obama raises the taxes on the rich. As Mitt Romney--the great economist-- points out. One of two things happens in this scenario. Since the man with the money is now paying more of the money he planned on investing in taxes he will have to cut back on the size of his new company planned or scrap the deal all together. If this persists, he will simply find a nice place in Indonesia or Congo or who knows where to manufacture his goods and sell them back to the US in a more tax friendly climate. Frankly, the American workers, especially unionized workers are falling like flies already from foreign competition since most workers in the world make less for the same job as Americans.

We need to incentivize the wealthy in every way possible including leaving as much of their money in their pockets to invest as possible so they will build new busineses, hire employees who buy products and get our economy booming again which automatically produces more tax revenue.

The tax cuts won't impact the deficit negatively. History proves that actually they will increase the money n the Federal coffers to pay down the debt load. Employed people pay taxes. Wealthy people keep their money and build businesses! Obama agreed on TV--just wanted to punish the wealthy for being wealthy.

Zeruski--Obama has done all in his power to start class warfare by calling the "Bush Tax Cuts" tax breaks for the rich and then trying to get you middle and low class folks to let out your inner envy of the rich to say "take it to the man--soak that rich SOB!" Shame on you.

Here in Washington State the Liberals tried to get a state income tax law iniative only taxing the income of the rich which was on the mid-term ballot passed. It seemed like a gimme.

There are thousands of poor and middle class people for every rich one. Of course shear numbers and class hatred would predict victory a law taxing the rich only.

Washington State voters made me proud! They refused to climb on the class warfare bandwagon (Marx and Engels chief weapon for bringing on Communism). Thanks Washingtonians for sticking up for one another and refusing to try to soak the wealthy. Thanks for understanding it is the wealthy who indeed are job producers! Obama and Saul Alinsky ways failed here! WE have great citizens in Washington who value basic fairness and who also saw this tax would be on them in two years too.

Are you all aware that the Clinton tax structure was almost identical to the Bush structure with two notable, though small, exceptions.

Under Clinton, the wealthy paid slightly less tax than under Bush and the Middle class paid slightly more % wise under Clinton than Bush. Check the records. They are still available.

I have to give credit to the D's for two mantras that stuck (in spite of being false):
1) "Bush lied and people died" from the anit-war crowd--Please look on the internet to find President Clinton's speech when going into Iraq to war. Sounds exactly like what y'all said Bush said. Remember the House and the Senate laced with D's voted to go into Iraq. Bush was mislead on some intelligence that was accepted by his own men and by the House and former Pres. Clinton as well as Hillary and our allies.

2) "Bush tax cuts favored the rich." T'ain't so folks. See

am a Democrat, a Progressive, a Liberal and have been described by some as a member of the Professional Left. If Obama caves to the Republicans on extending Bush Era unfunded, borrowed from the Chinese tax breaks for the undeserving top 2% even for a year or two (sounds permanent to me) I will "NOT" vote for him in 2012 or the other idiot! This is morally, fiscally and politically irresponsible and obscene! What is wrong with this man!

@Juno, you're theory on the perception of the tax cut to the rich guy that he creates the job for middle and lower income America. But if you notice over the past 8 years jobs are slowly dying in America while new one are being born everyday in other countries from the rich guy in America. If I'm not mistaken GW Bush tax cut benefited them for 10 years but they still create more jobs overseas? How can you explain that? But I do get your concept of how the systems is supposed to be with GW Bush tax cut. On paper its the perfect plan, but in reality it just doesn't work the same way.

Tank,

Yer a dumb-ass,

The only answer to the unfairness of our tax code is the Fair Tax.

Unless you feel someone paying more than their fair share is not fair.

Oh and one other thing. Our wonderful elected Representatives love spending our money on crap. Get a clue and see where the money is going. I bet you would be appalled.

Or maybe you like to screw you neighbor.

Our Tax Code is about as dumb as a box of chocolates.

You never know what you are gonna get!

Rich people don't create jobs, businesses do. Rich people are greedy and hoard money so therefore they don't spend to keep the economy going. Only the poor and middle class that live from paycheck to paycheck keep the economy going by supply and demand.

For those that want a fair tax, I would be all for it if they plug the loopholes that are in the tax laws. Stop anyone from claiming themselves as corporations to take advantage of loopholes for businesses. Stop CEOs from having a Lexus or Caddy for personal use tax free. Stop deductions for business lunches or make the person receiving the lunch claim it as income. Stop the "under the table" business that goes on where people get paid for work without it being reported as income. Stop these people that owe hundreds of thousands of dollars to the IRS from settling for pennies on the dollar. Pay the full amount of lose everything or go to jail. There are thousands of loopholes in the tax code that only benefit the rich.

I am so tired of reading news articles about tax cuts. It continually gets argued that poor and middle class Americans should continue to get their "tax cuts", but the rich should pay more. The problem is that poor people pay ZERO in taxes and typically get back tax CREDIT checks, and most in the middle class pay a federal tax of less than 10% of their income -- some far less, if anything. The REALITY is that the bottom 50% of earners pay ZERO in taxes and actually receive back EVERY DIME they paid-in via withholdings during the year. The only reason that extending the tax cuts adds hundreds of billions to the deficit is because the upper 50% of taxpayers pay ALL of the taxes in America. And the top 5% of earners pay BY FAR the largest share of this. The political reality is that the poorest people who pay zero in taxes vote overwhelmingly for the democrats, and those who pay the majority of our taxes vote mostly for the republicans... all continuing the chasm between the rich and the poor. This all adds to the class warfare that the democrats depend upon to continue to drive our economy toward bankruptcy.

Larry... are you merely ignorant or just a moron? You wrote:

"Rich people don't create jobs, businesses do. Rich people are greedy and hoard money so therefore they don't spend to keep the economy going. Only the poor and middle class that live from paycheck to paycheck keep the economy going by supply and demand."

I hate to break it to you, but rich people OWN businesses, and many are small businesses that are taxed just like individuals. It is SO RUSD of those rich people to "hoard" their own money... they should just give it all to the governement so poor people can blow it. Oh yeah, paycheck to paycheck has little to do with supplay and demand. LOL

Larry also wrote:

"Stop anyone from claiming themselves as corporations to take advantage of loopholes for businesses. Stop CEOs from having a Lexus or Caddy for personal use tax free. Stop deductions for business lunches or make the person receiving the lunch claim it as income. Stop the "under the table" business that goes on where people get paid for work without it being reported as income. Stop these people that owe hundreds of thousands of dollars to the IRS from settling for pennies on the dollar. Pay the full amount of lose everything or go to jail. There are thousands of loopholes in the tax code that only benefit the rich."

Where does one start when dealing with the terminally moronic/ignorant? LOL

How do you pay for the 3.7 trillion dollars of debt

This is a question for both parties as the Democrats want to continue 95% of the tax cuts. Without the top two percent, the tax cuts for everyone else would result in $3.7T in less money to spend over the next ten years.

Can it be safe to say that both parties, including the Democrats, have $370B in annual spending cuts in mind?

navyvet98

Inflamatory name 539962 does not realise that the majority of Congress is "Rich", especially the Demoncraps like Nancy Pelosi due to her ties to StarKist Corporation (special legislation to put competition (Bumblebee and Beach Cliff) out of business, Special Appropriations to StarKist at Samoa, US Only Fishing Regulations that did not solve the problem of large European Fishing Fleets (Atlantic), putting East Coast Beach Cliff out of Business after about 100 years).

237 Millionaires in Congress

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5553408-503544.html

Then there is "Mr. Corporate America". Hints:

Hints. a. Was the Senator for the Coal Poor State of Pennsylvania (as to why you will never have Alternative Energy, instead of dirty coal burning electric power plants). b. Became the Senator for Delaware after figuring out that Delaware is the Key to Corporate America (Unlimited Campaign Contributions). c. 2010 His people briefed the US Supreme Court on Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions, as to rule otherwise would make the 2008-2009 Elections invalid for violations of the Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act). d. After the US Supreme Court lessened the criminality of violating the McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act), he was fined $200,000. e. During his numerous failed Presidential Campaigns, he lost the US Military and US Military Veterans votes due to his 5 Student Deferments (received F for Cheating, plagerizing at Law School) and 1 Medical Deferment for $20,000 from a known Anti War Doctor, with the loss of US Citizen votes due to the Medical Deferment making him "too sick to hold any Public Office". f. His constituents and major campaign contributors are:

(List from 2005) Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, Wachovia, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ISDA, and those States with Corporations Incorporated at Delaware.

Over 50% of US publicly-traded corporations and 60% of the Fortune 500 companies are incorporated in Delaware;[1] the state's attractiveness as a corporate haven is largely due to its business-friendly corporation law. Franchise taxes on Delaware corporations supply about one-fifth of its state revenue.[2]

1. Delaware Division of Corporations
2. Delaware Fiscal Notebook - State General Fund Revenues by Category

The list is important because in order to obtain January 2009 Electoral College Votes in time the Democratic Party Controlled Congress had to pass the November December 2008 Billion USDs Bailouts as "Time Sensitive". These Billion USDs Bailouts did nothing to payoff the profits of 60-100 Trillion USDs that triggered the "Global Economic Crisis", see post #1.19 above. Reference Businessweek article listing physical locations of Bailout Receipents and correlation to physical locations of Electoral College Votes (reason the Electoral College needs to be eliminated, to make the popular vote determine the President and Vice President of the US).

Why even hold elections? What a waste of time and money. Let the Rich pick our leaders, be more efficient.

This isn't America this is the land of industry. Do what your told you have a family to feed!

MDB123 - Let the Rich pick our leaders, be more efficient.

The "Rich" already do. See post # 1.19. and post #3.3.

More reasons why the US Congress must be selected at random like Jury Duty. All Lobbyists, Special Interests made Illegal. Term Limits. And all those things I stated on another Newsvine Topic.

Random? Nah! nothing is random.

Make them take a test. Just like you have to do to get a job in social services so should they meet requirements, we choose based on the ability to create personal money. More like whanabee movie stars than American patriots.

Hold them accountable for their lies. Lying should be rights to dismissal. Back your statements or don't state them.

This game isn't being played right and the americans need to stand up and quit expecting politicians to do so. They won't. Blackmail I bet is in every play book.

Retard ican

I suppose your memory fails you too! It was a democratic congress that did the bailouts...(Bush had a democratic congress in his last 4 years of office)and congress holds the purse strings. If your party is so great then why did they go overboard on the bailouts to the auto industry, the banks, wall street.....or have you forgotten it was this current congress who voted for all these bailouts? And, give me a break, do you have any cue as to the expense this healthcare system will be? I suppose you will blame that on the retardicans too.

vdaet - save your breath, retardican has on more than one occasion admitted that he doesn't understand what he is talking about. Just parrots what others tell him. Ronnie raygun, puhhleaze! he can't even spell! LOL!

Allowing the tax cuts to expire is not a bad thing. As long as you make less than 50,000 your OK. What my tax cut amounted to under the Bush Cheney regime was probably a "Buck Double" at Burger King.

It's called a pun, do you know what a pun is? Probably not, just like half the other "big" words you like to throw around. You think big words make you seem smarter, but that only works if you even know what those words mean. In trying to make up mistakes for the other person, you just make yourself seem five times dumber. Not suprising for someone who supports a man who should have just stuck with acting as a way to lie to America. This is almost too funny.

The SAD THING IS THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT PAY TAXE'S, Nor do they pay for healthcare.

If they paid taxe's it would be ALOT DIFFERENT!!!!!

Also, as far as SS & Medicare go, my husband depends on them both, He is a DISABLED VETRERAN.

Sickened--Thank you for your service and that of your husband. The nation owes you a debt of gratitude and funding for any medical needs you may have (and I would be happy to do my share to see he gets the best of care as would most Americans we know). Too bad the free loaders and fraudsters take what is rightfully his through their elaborate schemes.

I am a Democrat, a Progressive, a Liberal and have been described by some as a member of the Professional Left. If Obama caves to the Republicans on extending Bush Era unfunded, borrowed from the Chinese tax breaks for the undeserving top 2% even for a year or two (sounds permanent to me) I will "NOT" vote for him in 2012 or the other idiot! This is morally, fiscally and politically irresponsible and obscene! What is wrong with this man!

Do rich people create jobs, or does demand create jobs?
This is the basic question to trickle up or tickle down economics. If consumers have no money to buy goods there is no need for production. Money in the hands of consumers creates demand, demand creates jobs.

i signed a petition against extending the tax cuts for the wealthy. Have you?

Do rich people create jobs, or does demand create jobs?

In the yacht, luxury car, vacation home, international travel, large home, upscale remodeling/appliances/furnishing, private party planner, country club membership, fine jewelry, fashion,, gourmet restaurant, art collection markets its the demand by the rich that create jobs.

If I was in any of those fields, I would want those rich to have as much disposable income as possible.

navyvet98 we should double there pay just because of comments like yours. close the hatch and get a life.

@J wesley

Why they are doing exactly what we elected them for

Really? So you elected them to extended the Bush tax cuts 3.5 trillion dollars of 10 years? You elected them to raise the debt cealing? You elected them to go back on thier pledge to end earmarks? You elected them to repeal heathcare....wait they've already admitted they can't repeal health care....wtf did you elect them for again?

Greg4422

Are you stupid? The republican congress doesn't even take office until January 2012, how is it that they have already had time to do anything? Especially with the democrats still in the majority in Senate and as president. I believe if we had a total republican congress and president the Obama healthcare would be repealed! but not as long as the demons are in office. And the spendthrifts certainly don't want to get rid of all their earmarks.

V Daet -

It's 2011 that the new Congress starts.

Tammy I stand corrected! Thanks

@V Daet

Watch and learn....everything I said above will come to pass

That's okay.

I am a Democrat, a Progressive, a Liberal and have been described by some as a member of the Professional Left. If Obama caves to the Republicans on extending Bush Era unfunded, borrowed from the Chinese tax breaks for the undeserving top 2% even for a year or two (sounds permanent to me) I will "NOT" vote for him in 2012 or the other idiot! This is morally, fiscally and politically irresponsible and obscene! What is wrong with this man!This is moral cowardice!

Sad but absolutely true!

Can you explain how allowing people to keep more of the money that have EARNED hurts the economy? I can't wait for the deluded explanation on this. You seem to think that cutting taxes is an expenditure! It is not, defense, social security, medicaire, medicaid, government operations, DOT are expenditures, stealing less is not.

How is it Bush tax cuts "have got to go ... except for the middle class"? That's the one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard. How can it be good and necessary for ONE group only? We know your reasoning, why don't you just admit, you want to be on-board with the class warfare rhetoric that Obama is known for.

I'm sure you're not too concerned for where a person's income/class status is when you're desperately in need of the best heart surgeon you can find to give you 15 more years to live. But until then, that doctor is "evil"? Your contempt for the wealthy is not very healthy in many ways, and makes you no better than a racist.

It is not the wealthy who are broadening the divide between middle/lower income and upper income, it is liberal (socialist/communist based) policies who are serving only to eliminate the middle income group in favor of a poor and ruling class society. If there are no wealthy in society, then there is nothing to work for or to strive to attain ... then there is only despair for all except the handful of "ruling class" and their friends.

So I go from 36% to 39%. I am in the tax bracket that will be affected and I don't mind paying more. STexan and his man W live in Texas, one of the most corrupt states in our nation run by super wealthy white men. So, don't call me racist you Texan. I just had a heart procedure and got though it just fine. You STexan can probably go to any doctor you want to and could care less for your fellow citizens who aren't as lucky as you. Get over yourself, pay an extra 3%, and move on. You paid way more when your idol Reagan was in office, so be thankful the tax rate is what it is. Or, you can thank Clinton for the low rates. Boo-hoo for you. You are crying all the way to the bank and your lawyer's office to find the loopholes you use to cheat on paying taxes.

Witt21, watch CA recover now that we don't have to be held up by a 2/3 vote on the budget.

Actually, kari, I would beg to differ with you on which states are more corrupt. I think Illinois would have to take the prize on that. They currently have how many former governors serving prison terms? I know Louisiana has one governor and one former Congressman in prison. I don't know of any from Texas, so I'm calling you wrong on your claim of which state is most corrupt.

Perhaps you should do your homework instead of taking your democrat propaganda at face value.

I, personally, just think that you are jealous because they have their state budget under control and actually have a business-friendly environment which means that more people are gainfully employed.

..Can anyone show where tax cuts for the rich have created jobs or lowered the national debt ?....Tax cuts and small business loans will not create jobs, but tariffs on registered American trade mark products that are manufactured abroad and imported to undercut American made, will......only when American manufacturers become competitive in the great American market again, will jobs be created..............The so-called 'Free trade' agreements which were really just agreements to pool the worlds labor force to lower the cost of labor have killed Americas' middle class

clam down navyvet98 your taking on water.

you are so right until we put the tarriffs on the products coming into this country we will not gain any manufacturing jobs. And if they do it will be bad for a few years as everything will go up in price but once factories start opening back up and equipment comes back here or new is bought it is going to stay at 10 percent unemployment

seattle kari,

Get an education. Do the research. If you knew the Causes of the current 60-100 Trillion USDs "Global Economic Crisis" your post would not be so uninformed.

See post#1.19, I have spoonfed you the Cause.

See post #1.19 about who started the Wars, not including the 2010 two "Secret" Wars (blabbed by Liberman) started by this Administration.

Ellis Baumgarner - ..Can anyone show where tax cuts for the rich have created jobs or lowered the national debt ?

Simple however those are two contridictory statements. The Tax Cuts allow more profits that can be reinvested back into the business (if the teachings of W.E. Deming and Lean Six Sigma are followed), like what my profitable business does.

The National Debt is the responsibility of the US Congress, especially YOUR Representatives, as Congress "Holds the Purse Strings" not the US President - High School Civics.

With the National Debt and the Interest on the National Debt, not some statement from a Professional Politician of a "Surplus" being the real indicators. Example: The so called President Clinton "Surplus" was those funds allocated by US Congress, with these funds (Surplus) being reallocated (spent) by US Congress even before President Clinton's Impeachment proceedings.

Interest on the National Debt: President Clinton , $18.9 Billion. President Bush, $16.6 Billion.

Ellis Baumgarner - The so-called 'Free trade' agreements which were really just agreements to pool the worlds labor force to lower the cost of labor have killed Americas' middle class

So ask yourself why this Administration has not done anything about the President Clinton Chinese Free Trade Agreements and Amendments. As brought up at "Chinagate", President Clinton receiving (still receives "Donations" thru Clinton Foundation) Campaign Contributions from the Chinese.

Currently the only by Law (US Code), Made In US Products are those Made For the US Military, as US Military Must Buy Only US Products, Goods and Services. This includes the US Military Government Owned Government Operated (GOGO) and Government Owned Contractor Operated Plants/Factories manufacturing US Military Equipment using US Raw Materials, that exist ever since President FDR Nationalized US Industry during the Great Depression. Before someone says it, if you want to decrease the US Military Budget (US Military Defense Industrial Complex) by 50% kickout the over hundred million expensive US Civilians in the US Military and throw them on US Unemployment. In other words put a face on the "US Military Defense Industrial Complex" and "Corporations" in relation to US Citizen Jobs.

stspecialk - Witt21, watch CA recover now that we don't have to be held up by a 2/3 vote on the budget.

Not going to happen due to circumstances. The defeat of California Proposition 187 by Lawyers of US Taxpayer funded La Raza, sets a legal precedent, allowing all Illegal Aliens to collect Public Assistance. With Bankrupt Illegal Alien Harbor State of California spending over $10 Billion USDs per Year on Illegal Aliens of the yearly budget of $85 Billion USDs. These funds then become unavailable (money has to come from somewhere) for legal California Residents (US Citizens) programs like Education (2010 Tuition Increases and layoffs), Law Enforcement (layoffs), Firefighting (layoffs), Brush Clearing (recent forest fires), Irrigation (recent droughts), Bankrupt Medical Facilities and closures (Illegal Aliens using fake names), etc.. My guess (based on current California situation(s)) is that most of California does not know how to add and subtract (Budget) and believes that money falls in bags from heaven (mana from heaven).

..David......While Clinton did sign, and is partly responsible for NAFTA and Chinese trade agreements, all of the free trade agreements of the past twenty years were sponsored / and or drafted and passed by republicans, or a republican Congress. The trade agreements were, and are a part of trickle down Reaganomics, and a way for corporate America to break unions and suppress wages in America..........If you think republicans are the answer to the present recession, here are some hard facts for you, all three of the most recent recessions occured during a Bush presidency

..David.........I agree with you about California and illegal immigrants being part of the problem however.

Ellis Baumgarner ..David......While Clinton did sign, and is partly responsible for NAFTA and Chinese trade agreements, all of the free trade agreements of the past twenty years were sponsored / and or drafted and passed by republicans, or a republican Congress.

President Clinton went to China and negotiated the "Most Favored Trade Nation Status" with China. Before this there was "the Great Wall of China" (limited or no trade with China) with China as a "Closed Society". With this leading to the "Wall Mart" syndrome (US Corporation in name only selling almost only Foreign Manufactured Products).

It is the Political Parties (all of them) that are Responsible for the current situation as to why the Free Trade and Amendments that legalized Outsourcing must be eliminated. As whoever listens to the Business are those that will write the Laws for them in exchange for Campaign Contributions. So you have to ask yourself why hasn't the current administration done anything about this problem NOW (hint because they benefit quite a lot, 237 Millionaires in Congress).

At post #1.19 I gave you the reasons for the current "Recessions" actually according to the Great Depression Era formulae the US is currently in a Depression, and will be heading toward what I termed a "Supernova Depression" (worse than the Global Great Depression) in my 1990 Research Paper to US Government (updated 1993, 2009, over 2000 pages) since the Laws (Glass Steagall Acts) to prevent this were removed by President Clinton and the Repugnants. I was not the first to see this coming (not a conspiracy theorist), as stated by Kurt Vonnegut's 1960s book, Harrison Bergeron, "the Great Recession". Ask yourself why this Administration is not reinstating the Glass Steagall Acts, and is instead attempting to repeat the mistakes from 1907 to 1933 with attempts (similar failures) to Regulate the Causes, with the recent President Obama Financial Reform. The Chinese retained their versions of the Glass Steagall Acts as to why they are not hurting as much as the US, Europe, the rest of Asia and the World.

As far as the Free Trade Agreements and Amendments being designed to break the back of the US Labor Unions. This is true and false. As the History of the start of US Labor Unions, after the Great Depression wiped out the Henry Ford Era US Labor Unions, is not exactly stellar, in reference to their association with "Italian Organized Crime" as proven after President FDR suspended all US Labor Union Activities prior to and during WWII. With the US Labor Unions striking (to stop or delay the US Military) during the US Military Invasions of Sicily and Italy to depose Mussolini and President FDR ordering the US Military Police to stop the US Labor Union Strikes including Deadly Force, with the US Military Police machinegunning US Labor Union Strikers during violent strikes Nationwide (BBC Documentary Requiem for Detroit, movies like On the Waterfront, Last Exit to Brooklyn, FIST, etc.).

As far as crediting the US Labor Unions with those events after the Great Depression wiped out the Henry Ford Era US Labor Unions, like minimum wage, limits on hours worked, Saturday and Sunday Off, Work conditions. I would refer you to the World War II, War Department Study to limit the numbers of accidents at US Ammunition Plants/Factories (limits on hours worked and conditions, I have a copy stateside at home) and the Library of Congress References pertaining to President FDR's Nationalization of US Industry (Minimum Wage). It was also during President FDR that the Christians demanded half a day off for Religious Worship (Sunday) with this turning into the whole day. Later the Jews demanded Friday and Saturday off for equal religious worship and got Saturday, eventually leading to everyone getting Saturday and Sunday off.

During the 1980s, firsthand experience, the written opposition by US Labor Unions to US Congress to building an experimental fully automated computer controlled self calibrating robotics ammunition plant within the US (decreased deaths for accidential explosions). Due to this opposition, the GOGO and GOCO Ammunition Plants/Factories within the US are still dangerous 19th Century Technology. This experimental ammunition factory was built in another Country and operates at a huge profit and out produces all US Ammunition Plants/Factories with higher grades of ammunition than the "Canadian Match Grade". This technology was eventually adopted by US Corporations when they moved external to the US, especially to Toluca, Mexico; Machau, China and Shanghai, China producing products with a lower Acceptable Fault Tolerance than can be manufactured in the US using the tolerances not perceptable to the human eyes (continuious laser measurements). Lower Acceptable Fault Tolerances are the physical means to determine "Quality".

David:

Why are you wasting your time in here? Although I ask that of myself often...

I must say your posts are the most enjoyable, well informed I've read. I have a few quibbles not worth mentioning, although one sore point for me and is often left out in discussion about Clinton was his playing fast and loose with our classified technologies. Clinton was paid 1 million each by Bernard Schwarz and Michael Armstrong, CEOs of Laurel and Hughes not to mention untold millions from the Chinese through Johnny Chung, John Huang, and Charlie Trie, all for his 1996 presidential campaign, without which he would have likely been defeated. Hazel O'Leary, head of the Department of Energy under Clinton went to China with Shwartz and the three Chinese and shortly thereafter returned and relaxed security at Los Alamos, our prime weapons lab (coincidence?). Soon thereafterit was learned Wen Ho Lee, an ethnic Chinese physicist illegally downloaded classified information to his personal computer.

In 1997 news of Chinese money broke as a campaign scandal. Over ONE HUNDRED suspects refused to testify in front of Congress or fled the country. In 1999, the DF-31 was paraded down the streets of Beijing. It is capable of striking US cities, the motor and guidance systems provided by Hughes and Laurel. The nuclear warhead is a copy of our W88, the crown jewel stolen from our arsenal (along with the neutron bomb).

This was largely reported in the Cox Commission, but was summarily ignored. It should never be forgotten.

Clarification: The physical weapons were not stolen but their designs.

freempg,

Correct. except the proper name is "enhanced radiation weapon", not neutron bomb.

Before I got involved with the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF), I was a Nuclear (Weapons) Physics, Biological (Epidemiology), Chemical Instructor/Course Writer/Course Evaluator and later Branch Chief.

Before START, SALT, etc. I switched my Functional Area, as I knew that the INF would be retrograding from Europe. I became "Middle East" Qualified, language Farsi.

Some people wonder how the US found out that the Iranians are building a orbital/suborbital (making range irrelevant due to earth rotation) solid fuel (instant launch) missile similar to a Pershing II without a range limiter and a third stage. Reason why the Russian Federation recently, last month, 2010, deployed a land based ABM system to a former USSR Republic. With the intial arguement about short ranged weapons systems (USN SSBNs) versus the INF deployment applying to the ABMs due to physical restrictions (size of ships and boats (submarines), with the current short ranged Aegis ABMs going to have to intercept over the intended target with a 100% intercept rate with no second chances, versus a longer ranged land based ABM System.

Have any of you libs ever heard of spending less? just a thought.

I am tired of the federal government stealing my money and giving it to people who are toolazy to work or are incompetent and cannot run a compant without destroying it. SCREW THEM!

I am a Democrat, a Progressive, a Liberal and have been described by some as a member of the Professional Left. If Obama caves to the Republicans on extending Bush Era unfunded, borrowed from the Chinese tax breaks for the undeserving top 2% even for a year or two (sounds permanent to me) I will "NOT" vote for him in 2012 or the other idiot! This is morally, fiscally and politically irresponsible and obscene! What is wrong with this man!This is moral cowardice!

Navyvet ,if medicare,ss and other government programs are expendatures then is your government retirement too?, other people on ss and medicare have to pay into it every payday just like taxes, don't they deserve to get a little something back?

We know ALL of these tax cuts are unsustainable in the long run, but costs go up in the mean time. The sooner we let the whole stupid package expire, the less it will sting, because it will be a larger problem later on. After the hatchet job Bush crashed the economy for in 2000 are gone, we can look at REAL reform of the tax code, which we also all know is a hopeless mess, and set it up to where the burden gets deligated appropriatly. Bit the bullet America, and let's start paying for our lifestyle now instead of letting our children do it. It's the grown up thing to do.

So I go from 36% to 39%. I am in the tax bracket that will be affected and I don't mind paying more.

But isn't it true that any time in the past ten years you could have voluntarily paid the higher rate by simply sending it in with your tax return? Why didn't you?

David: Keep up the good work. I am fluent in Farsi, at least the swear words my wife hurls at me. Best of luck in the days to come. Let's hope we can avoid most of the trouble ahead; I must say, for an optimist, it's tough to see a crack in the darkness.

When he shows some balls he is considered arrogant? Can he really win, hell no!

Tammy I would like to add a nominee to the most corrupt state category. Illinois probably does take the cake with Cook County being the County seat of corruption, but if we want a second of some equivalency--I nominate King County in Washington State.

SO how much more do you think they should be taxed? Do you even have a clue how much they already pay? So you want to give the federal government more money to waste or do you want these so-called wealthy to keep their money and create jobs? I don't know about you, but I never got a job from a poor man, have you?

Tax Year 2008

Percentiles Ranked by AGI

AGI Threshold on Percentiles

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1% - $380,354 38.02

Top 5% - $159,619 58.72

Top 10% - $113,799 69.94

Top 25% - $67,280 86.34

Top 50% - $33,048 97.30

Bottom 50% > $33,048 2.7

Source: Internal Revenue Service

I am a Democrat, a Progressive, a Liberal and have been described by some as a member of the Professional Left. If Obama caves to the Republicans on extending Bush Era unfunded, borrowed from the Chinese tax breaks for the undeserving top 2% even for a year or two (sounds permanent to me) I will "NOT" vote for him in 2012 or the other idiot! This is morally, fiscally and politically irresponsible and obscene! What is wrong with this man!This is moral cowardice!

Then where does the recovery come from? How'bout it tank?

it was settled for 8 years and they didn't invest the money. What makes you think that would change?

All this BS about not knowing the cost of HCR or what taxes are going to be is a crock!!!

st--actually they did invest the money. The economy boomed under Bush until the Democrats took over the House and Senate. Remember Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Obama--the big three that accepted the most money from Freddie and Fannie as they led our economy into the abysmal gully of no return. Pres. Bush asked at least 7 times in those years for tighter control on these quasi governmental entities. ACORN and the Black Caucus supported by the Democrat majorities would not listen and the rest is history. Down went the housing market and the economy with it.

amen bro. Things were fine until dirty harry and princess pelosi screwed things up. they both should go to prison on charges of treason and high crimes against the United Stated of America and it's people.

Remember, it is Warren Buffet who says it's time for the wealthy to pay at least as much taxes as secretaries, relatively speaking.

Remember its Warren Buffett, the second wealthiest man in the US, worth more than $50B who is giving all of his fortune to the Bill Gates charitable fund when he dies. He is paying nothing in taxes, yet he wants income earners today to pay more.Warren Buffet's secretary will pay more when she dies than he will.

Warren Buffet can go soak his sage-like head.

There are many homeless vets out there navy, what do you think should be done about them? If you think they should be helped then how about people who were raised in abusive environments leaving them unable to function properly in society. There are people on assistance who shouldn't be, but compared to the greed of powermongers, this is a drop in the bucket when it comes to hard working folks recieving less than they should.

if they can work and support themselves then leave them homeless until they get initiative.

NaVYVET:

1) It's sort of a refund of FICA, which they DO pay.....

2) Tax cuts are BAD if you then dont cut spending. If you quit your job then double your spending, what the hell do you think is gonna happen to you???? Same thing the GOP is doing to this government! And just WAIT until you see what the solution is to this debt crisis!! I can guarantee this much. MOST americans are NOT going to like it--- but there will be NO other choice! Thank you, GOP!!

Let explain further. I have no problem helping people. However, we are breeding poverty in this nation, not by Wall Street, but by, albeit, well meaning, but debilitating programs that make our society dysfunctional. We have generations of welfare recipients, who rather continue in that manner than try to lift themselves up. We have bred this into these people, its easy to blame them, but the blame is on us. Instead of chanting "entitlement" we should be championing self-reliance. That won't fix all of our financial ills but it will lift us financially and most importantly lift national pride and morale.

Navyvet98... I generally agree with you except that I disagree with lumping all recipients of social programs as "parasitic creatures". There may be more than a few out there but the vast majority are people down on their luck through no fault of their own. What makes our country different from much of the world is we look after those less fortunate instead of seeing them begging in the streets or dying from cold , hunger and sickness. I (and probably you) have been in enough foreign ports to have witnessed this kind of human misery where it was an accepted way of life. We need to make our welfare system work without bankrupting the nation by rooting out those who use it as an alternative way of life. As it was originally set up, people got help in the form of food, clothing and low cost (or free) basic health care. Not many people (comparatively speaking) tried to get it because it carried a social stigma to be on welfare, but if you were truly in need you swallowed your pride to feed and clothe your family. I'd like to see things revert to the old way it was done. Cost would drop dramatically.

NavyVet65,

You stated it perfectly! That is the position I was trying to explain. Parasites, to me, are not those who have less, but those who demand more without trying to elevate themselves by their own sacrifices first.

98, really not liking your tone today, you are usually respectfull... but today you are just being a kook!

I need help. I am really trying to understand the views and opinions of the republicans, tea party supporters, and conservatives.

I definitely thought there would be a rising up of a third party and people coming together, but for the right? The tea party? I thought it would be a rising up of people demanding that human rights for all be protected, and standard of living be raised.

Why are people identifying with the party that protects big business and the rich when the nation as a majority are not rich?

My key question, is the party distinction. Do people truly believe that it is better to support the rights and prosperity of the individual rather than support the rights and prosperity of the whole group?

If I have worked hard, become successful, am healthy, and young than I win, and those that are poor, old, sick, and uneducated good luck? I actually am all of the first listed, but I believe that if the rest are taken care of it is better for me versus being above the rest and have them be miserable around me.

Corporations, and the wealthy benefit the most from our government. That is why they should pay more taxes. They have benefited from our people and our resources and so therefore should share their profits with those they have taken from.

A good example might be oil companies. As a nation we allow them to take a natural resource that belongs to our nation, our people, and use it to make a profit. So they should make a profit from the service they provide and then because we allow them to use this resource they should give the rest of the profit to the country.

I am willing to pay even half of my pay toward taxes if that means we all have health care, education, a roof over our heads, food, and water. These are needs that we all have and should have, they should not only be accessible to those that can afford them. When all of our nations needs are met then competition over the best services can continue on above that.

As I recall Adam Smith was an advocate for capitalism on an individual level but stated that capitalism was not sustainable, would always fail, and would only benefit the few, not the many.

We all need to pay more taxes, especially the rich, and we need to improve our social programs, and bring up the quality of life for our nation.

someone has let the air out of navyvet98 ducky float

Tom in NH-294381 - NaVYVET: Same thing the GOP is doing to this government!

Wrong party. What has been done.

Since 1945 Democrats have controlled the the House & Senate 21 terms to Republicans 6 ( Or 42 years to 12 years ). Democrats have controlled the House, Senate, and Whitehouse 11 terms to Republicans 2 ( or 22 years to 4 years ).

NavyVet65, navyvet98, the reality is that the Entitlement Babies like

stspecialk are enablers for those that get Free money, Free Food, Free Housing, Free Medical, Free Dental, Free Vision, Free..... without realising that the money has to come from somewhere. This is why

stspecialk cannot figure out why California is Bankrupt and will NOT get out of Bankruptcy (what they are and are not doing).

David I think you need a factcheck.

Doogal - David, again, you really need to fact check.

You need to go to D.C. (Dysfunctional Congress) and do the research.

Like stated before, you need to figure out who "Mr. Corporate America" is. Your $100 donations only paid for a few hours for the Nationwide Campaign Offices Rent versus the Billions from the list at post#21.4. By the way research the States of the Bailout Recipients as either Blue or Red and they were NOT Repugnants as a correlation to the physical locations of the Electoral College Votes.

And by the way instead of using "factcheck.org", get off your butt and do your own independent research (multiple sources to verify one fact as basic research principles) as the money for the operation of factcheck.org has to come from somewhere (strings attached), just like the Misery Index was/is funded by the DNC (which backfired on the DNC when it was found that the Democratic Party creates a higher Misery Index for all US Citizens, their own data aka "factchecks").

Corporations, and the wealthy benefit the most from our government. That is why they should pay more taxes.

Using that logic, isn't it also true that the individuals who work for corporations and the wealthy benefit the most from the wealthy and from corporations? Thus, should they not pay more in taxes to offset the taxes not paid by corporations?

And government employees, since they benefit most from the taxpayers who fund their careers, should be either paying at a higher tax rate or be forced to support the private sector?

There is a leg missing on the stool.

witt, obviously with the situation we have become in, he was wrong!!!

Actually, stspecialk, it's the government that does not know how to 'spend'. They need to learn to live within a budget.

Oh, that's right! - They didn't do a budget this year, did they? I guess the democrats in control of Congress figured out that they'd tick off even their liberal backers if they let the people see how badly they wanted to break the bank.

Money drives the economy, whether you want to believe it or not. Keeping more of it in the hands of the taxpayers is the right thing to do. It is not, after all, the government's unless they take it from us first. This is why we need to hold Congress accountable for the money that they spend. They MUST answer to the taxpayer for their use of OUR money.

All agree that taxes are a necessary evil, but the line needs to be drawn somewhere as to when is enough, enough!

Generational welfare needs to stop. This country, as a whole, cannot continue to support the drain on the economy that this causes.

A person on welfare should have to pass drug tests to get it as they should be trying to get a job and many jobs require drug tests. Only basic support should be covered, like food, basic utilities, basic clothing. Cell phones are NOTa necessity and should not be covered. Big screen TVs, video games, and computers should not be covered. That's why there are computers in the public library. Those are for public use and give them access to the internet to look for jobs.

We need to get rid of the waste and redundancy in the government.

OK, Tammy, let's just take taxes back to Reagan levels.

I'm sure that the truly wealthy would have no problem with that as long as all of the loopholes came back too.

Please tell me why we should willingly give Congress more money to blow on non-essentials?

Let Congress PROVE that it can live within a budget before we give them any more money.

Unfortunately, it appears that Obama IS going to cave even on this cut and dried issue of tax cuts. You repubs who want Obama to be a one term president are going to be joined in your wish by many democrats if Obama doesn't grow a set of balls and fast.

How about cutting back on all of the social programs, support to illegal aliens criminal activity, support to foreign nations, etc, etc,,

How about cutting the military's budget by 50%. Biggest welfare program we have. Pensions, healthcare, pricy toys...and we have generations of people sucking off this teat adding nothing to GDP.

Leroy Reed,

Good Point. Quick question though? Who requests those pricey toys? Is it the Pentagon or is it the legislator with a defense contractor ( and thousands of jobs) in his/her district. Can you explain why the largest amount of defense dollars have been poured into Boston (Barney Fran) and Pennslyvania? IN never knew we had so many Armed Forces personnel stationed here?

I agree, bipartisan earmarks. Why does Boeing need to be need to be in someway associated with 30 of the 50 states? Every congressman hates ear marks until they talk to their constituents and tell them how much Fed money they bring to po dunk Arkansas. We have a broken system, not because of one party's dumb indeas or socialist agenda, but because politicians are concerned about making money for themselves. Limit PAC money, eliminate earmarks, make the tax code fair and consistant, healthcare for everyone, and don't let grandma starve or sleep on the streets.

I agree with Leroy, cut the military in half!!!! NOW!!!

We can't even get the Republicans to quit building more nukes and sign the START treaty.

navyvet98 how about they do away with our veterans benefits. all the money come from the taxpayer.

leroy reed - How about cutting the military's budget by 50%. Biggest welfare program we have.

Yes, the biggest welfare program we have for a few hundred million US Civilians (Jobs). Then there are those US Civilians that directly or indirectly support the US Military. So yes, kick a few hundred million US Civilians on US Unemployment this would cut the US Military Budget by at least 50%.

navyvet98 - Leroy Reed, Good Point. Quick question though? Who requests those pricey toys? Is it the Pentagon or is it the legislator with a defense contractor ( and thousands of jobs) in his/her district.

It is the Defense Contractors (thousand of US Civilian Jobs) thru Lobbyists to the Congressional Defense Appropriations Committee. This is why due to YOUR Congressional Representatives the US Military does NOT get the best equipment, and only gets things based on who's State the crap is manufactured at. example: short ranged 1960s designed jungle warfare M-16s (350m) and M-4s (250m) versus AKMs (800m), SVDs (1,600m), AK47s (650m), RPG (800m), 12.7mm (2,000m). (I have many more firsthand experience examples for all Branches).

And since you do not know based on your posts, leroy reed, what would happen if the shipyards and drydocks of the USN shut down on the East Coast, how many US Civilian Jobs would be lost. Or with all the anti US Military (US Civilian Jobs) talk, if all US Military Installations at stspecialk California were closed. Why do you think the current Congress was panicking about Secretary of Defense Gates's proposed BRAC (Base Realignment and Closures) after the shutdown of Joint Forces Command (loss of 5000 US Civilian Jobs, the US Military were reassigned) and that was a small US Military Installation.

stspecialk my guess is that you are too young to have experienced or too lazy to do the research of the President Clinton closures of 14 US Military Installations (and resulting near Great Depression Era US Civilian Economies in the surrounding towns, cities, and flight of people to other States).

stspecialk how's the loss of State Income (adjust for inflation) from the US Military working for you since the closure of former Fort Ord. Current income (adjusted for inflation) versus the income from the US Military (adjusted for inflation) and related US Civilian Jobs (US Contractors) to the US Military Installation (Fort Ord) versus the "high unemployment" (your statement).

I live in one of the cities directly affected by the closures. That changes nothing about the fact that we are building bombs that we don't even need.

stspecialk - I live in one of the cities directly affected by the closures. That changes nothing about the fact that we are building bombs that we don't even need.

Define "Need". Tell that to the US Military conducting these UN Missions (Iraq, Afghanistan, and two other Wars started by this Adminstration).

Of course you can demand to your Congressional Representatives NO MORE UN MISSIONS.

How about Candidate Obama full filling his Campaign Promise pertaining to the Presidential Debates about the "Unpopular Wars" (Iraq and Afghanistan) and the Selective Service (aka "Draft"). Candidate Obama "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement".

With the April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts, current 2010 Defense Budget, and upcoming 2011 Defense Budget, the cuts to the cush jobs of the USAF and USN, meaning Selective Service into the US Military Ground Combat Units and the direct support combat units of those units.

Then you can see firsthand how much we don't even need.

stspecialk making statements that do not directly affect you is typical (lazy and ignorant) and when they do affect you you b!tch until your eyes pop out.

I commented only directly on START.

How about cutting the military's budget by 50%. Biggest welfare program we have. Pensions, healthcare, pricy toys...and we have generations of people sucking off this teat adding nothing to GDP.

Oh boy, you stepped in it now. So all those men and women who served their country fighting for you and your rights, who may have suffered life changing injuries, like missing legs, arms, eyes, and who spent months away from loved ones are recipients of some form of welfare?

You owe your welfare to them, bucko.

And actually, we would have no GDP if there were not men and women willing to risk life and limb to defend and fight for this country to allow this system to thrive.

Talk about supporting the troops.

Every person who pays taxes or serves the country or his fellow man in any way can be said to be making a sacrifice. Some more than others . You don't have to sit with sackcloth and ashes to sacrifice for your country as you seem to imply.

Ekwei

WoW! who set you up as judge! What further sacrifices do you want the American people to make? Turn over what little is left of their paychecks?

Ekwei, are you serious? I have paid taxes for decades and have seen both parties outspend budgets for most of those years. I don't think Americans should sacrifice more from their paychecks until Congress can spend the money wisely.

Just take the top 4 budget items: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Military. The 1st two were set up to help people fund their retirement and medical expenses during retirement. These are great ideas, but the funds have been mismanaged for years. If the funds cannot be managed properly, shut it down, move SS into private 401K programs, and move Medicare into private Health Savings Accounts (HSAs).

Medicaid is another great idea - give basic health care to people who need help in life. This has to stay, but fraud and fund mismanagement can still be aggresively pursued.

Military spending can be cut simply by not being the world police unless the rest of the world is willing to foot the bill. Then we can focus on real threats based on viable intelligence. There's still a lot of gray in providing for the common defense. But some decisions can be black and white.

Ekwei, wouldn't you want better tax $ spending before asking all of us to sacrifice even more to the insanity?

have to reply to that one, was in Army served my 4 years, got GI Bill, went to school, I owe you people nothing, I did it myself and you people could have done it also if you would have got off your fat can. Now you want to take what I earned and spread my gains out to idiots who dont plan ahead, dont want to work, and want handouts. Just doesnt ring true for me, sorry.

YOU give up your SS, Medicare, etc... and then we will talk, until then you are just acting selfish.

RoShamBo

I agree with you!

We have allowed this government to act like children in a candy store and it has to stop...must stop.

All this talk over whether to continue the Bush tax cuts is not the point. If I thought our government could be trusted to put these cuts to the national debt I would say go ahead and end the Bush tax cuts, but this government hasn't even put the money that has been paid back from the banks to the national debt.

These tax cuts will only be wasted on uselessness unless we hold them accountable. That is why the republicans won big time, people want accountability and honesty in their government, and the democrats proved they could not be trusted with their spending and their listening skills, otherwise Obama's healthcare would be dead in the water.

stspecialk, the government can cut me a check for my contributions to Social Security and I will gladly move it into my 401K. Give me that option and I'll opt out tomorrow. The same goes for Medicare. Cut me a check for my contributions and I'll move it into my Health Savings Account (HSA). I know my money is safer in those private accounts.

YOU give up your SS, Medicare, etc... and then we will talk, until then you are just acting selfish.

SS and Medicare will not be around in their present form when I am eligible.

I already gave it up in spite of the fact I have paid for years into the system.

Equality, Equality, Equality. Oh, sorry that is a basic Demoncraptic idea.

Antone, it will not be the rich who suffers higher taxes, but many families who are struggling to make ends meet. How will the increased taxes be spent? That is question.

Simple. Increase my taxes or leave that axe over my neck. I cut back on the number of workers (throw them on your back as unemployed and or public assistance). I increase my prices for products that you cannot do without. Use cheaper materials (wearout faster). I still get the same amount of profits.

NO TAXATION WITHOUT TRUE REPRESENTATION - Founding Fathers, the "rabble" during the War of the Colonies aka War of Independence, Boston Tea Party, etc. pertaining to the British Stamp Acts and Tea Taxes.

Yes, David, we all see where you are. Profits are everything. That IS the problem.

Doogal - Yes, David, we all see where you are. Profits are everything. That IS the problem.

Unlike you my motives are factual in nature as without the profits my business closes as the majority of my profits are for payroll. The rest (remaining profits) are reinvested back into my business (including payraises, promotions, additional benefits, better work conditions (renovations), alternative energy, newer equipment, child care, etc..).

You need to learn to add and subtract.

And I took the risk of MY $10 Million USDs that I earned thru previous hard WORK and scrimping and saving (living in my car, eating one ramen a day). YOU DID NOT RISK SQUAT.

We need to cut spending instead of trying to raise revenue first.

how about we start with you navyvet98.

Are you kidding?? Obama caved on everything. Everything he passed was watered down by the repubs. This idea that Obama was overly-partisan is pure republican bull@!$%#.

Hey lib, Obama never compromised on anything. The left wing fanatics have had their way now its time for the adults to get in there.

Really? could you explain something for us? Why has the national debt increased by 5 trillion dollars since Nancy Pelosi became Speaker of the House? How come our national debt increased by 5 trillion dollars in the last four years the House and the Senate have been under control of the far-left?

Advise: Stop using Rachel Maddow for your talking points an research the information yourself.

The bailout money was NECESSARY to save the country from total collapse vet, and it WORKED. This is not political rhetoric like repub arguments but rather a fact of economics that virtually all economists agree on. The money Dubya spent was unnecesary and made America both weaker and less safe.

98, because we were paying for your Baby Boy Bush's little revenge war in Iraq.

Tom in NH-294381,

The Presidents do NOT control the Budget (National Debt). That is simple High School Civics, it is US Congress that holds the "Purse Strings".

Since 1945 Democrats have controlled the the House & Senate 21 terms to Republicans 6 ( Or 42 years to 12 years ). Democrats have controlled the House, Senate, and Whitehouse 11 terms to Republicans 2 ( or 22 years to 4 years ).

stspecialk - 98, because we were paying for your Baby Boy Bush's little revenge war in Iraq.

More uninformed posts stspecialk, the War at Iraq started during the 1980s, US involvement with the Iran Iraq Wars. With President Clinton in 1998 demanding the current War At Iraq with his 1998 State of the Union Address that justified the War with the first time used term Weapons of Mass Destruction. The Law demanded by President Clinton, H.R.4655, eventually was amended by US Congress to become the Declaration of War with Iraq as the US Military Invasion of Iraq to: Overthrow the Iraqis President and the Iraqis (Parliamentary Democratic) Government to Liberate the Iraqis People" aka Operation Iraqis Freedom. The stated Overthrow of another Nation's Sovereign Government is a Declaration of War (Act of War) according to the United Nations, International Laws, 1907 Hague Convention, 1949 Geneva Convention, etc.. With US Congress pre 9/11 2001 amending the Law to fund the US Military Invasion of Iraq, with President Bush obeying the Law (Declaration of War, which could not be carried out under President Clinton after his cut to the bone Reduction In Forces of the US Military and gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies (Intelligence Blackouts of entire regions especially the "Middle East" resulting in 9/11 2001 - US Congressional Intelligence Committees, 9/11 Commission, firsthand experience, etc.).

President Clinton's 1998 State of the Union Address that demanded War with Iraq by declaring the overthrow of another nation's sovereign government. First act of war under this declaration, Operation Desert Fox, 1998.

Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade, and much of his nation's wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire gulf war. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein, "You cannot defy the will of the world", and when I say to him, "You have used weapons of mass destruction before; we are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again.

David -

The thing is, our military still hasn't recovered from the Clinton years. The Reserves and National Guard had to be used to supplement our active duty troops because our troop levels are still not where they need to be and are still being cut even today.

The left likes to argue against the subcontractors, but those cuts are the reason we need subcontractors to take care of things like cooking, cleaning, and administration.

navyvet98, if you let me keep my tax cuts i won't raise the price of gas. welllllllllllll maybe i will but i'll feel really bad when i do.

Tammy-311614 - David -The thing is, our military still hasn't recovered from the Clinton years.

Unfortunately, I know firsthand as well as most of my men and women after being recalled to Active Duty from Retirement (limit is age 65). All of us would rather be stateside getting drunk (Illegal according to Islamic Laws) and laid (illegal according to UCMJ and Local Islamic Laws); not necessarily in that order. And hold some no brainer job like Walmart Greeter (waste of our graduate and post graduate degrees).

The niches for the US Contractors were the result of the President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military, with the US expensive Contractors filling the cheap in house US Military jobs/positions like: Supply, Air Sea Land Transportation, Aircraft Vehicle Weapons Maintenance, Sanitation (Water Purification, Laundry Services, Bathing Services, Waste Disposal, etc.), Food Service, Logistics, Electronic Repair/Maintenance, Communications, Computers (including networking), VIP Protection, etc.. All the reasons from before that people entered the US Military to learn a skill, so elimination of all the US Civilians from the US Military has dual benefits by letting the US Military do these jobs again cheaper and in house.

And to only mention Halliburton, KBR, Xe (Blackwater) as part of the blame game (Bush Cheney) is myopic at best, as there are thousands of Contractors including the Foreign Contractors as hired by SOS Clinton and the Agencies. With President Obama continuing this trend after August 2009 sending the hundreds of thousands of privileged US Civilians into this Combat Zone (Afghanistan) as managed by President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke (same US Civilians overheard at Paris France by Rolling Stone, "this administration does not know what it is doing", etc.) with these US Civilians not listed by name and not punished as to why they are now on General Petraeus's High Level Staff as part of President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry's and Holbrooke's Civilian Chain of Command. This is one of the primary reasons that General McChrystal stated that this administration did not know what it is doing, as he was responsible for the Combat Zone, not Eikenberry nor Holbrooke, with President Obama changing the Rules after General McChrystal assumed Command (Responsibility), especially the Rules of Engagement as negotiated by President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke with President Karzai, as cannot shoot until shot. Almost laughable, is the mismanagement of Billions USDs of US Aid by President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke while claiming to the International News Media how corrupt President Karzai is for stealing nickels and dimes. This corruption was requested by President Karzai to be investigated by General McKiernan (Fired by President Obama), General McChrystal (Fired by President Obama, one of many reason why he stated this administration did not know what it is doing), and recently after General Petraeus arrived.

Note: Unlike the US Military Enlisted Oath of Enlistment. The US Military Officer's Oath of Office (Congressional Commissioning Certificate) is different as to who the loyalties are. As when the US Politicians do not listen it is the Duty of a US Military Officer as the Representative of the US Citizens of the US Military to state those matters to the US Public that pertain to the health and welfare (lives) of those within their Responsibility (Command) as confirmed by US Congress especially Flag Officers (as the US Military's Political Representatives as confirmed by US Congress). This is NOT insubordination nor conduct unbecoming under the UCMJ and by not doing so can be stated as Dereliction of Duty. Reason why General McKiernan after developing his War Plan to Win Afghanistan after being ignored by President Obama and US Congress, went public to CBS News. Afterwards President Obama took General McKiernan's War Plan and stated that he developed this War Plan to Win Afghanistan. Those in the US Military know that General McKiernan's War Plan is useless, as General McKiernan did not "Brief" his Commander's Intent.

But even as he outlined the new strategy, McKiernan made it clear he was still not convinced there were enough troops to pull it off.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/11/eveningnews/main5007510.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;1

The hundred thousand privilaged US Civilians sent by President Obama, August 2009 undermined the US Military, the UN Mission, the President Karzai Government. The privilaged US Civilians demanding "comforts of home" in the Combat Zone (responsibility of US Military not them), airconditioning, hot tubs, alcoholic beverages, surf and turf (lobster and steak), catered banquets, armored SUVs (eventhough they rarely leave the Green Zone or Kandy har AFB), Burger King, Starbucks, KFC, TGIF Fridays, and due to Political pressure they get these further putting a Logistics burden on the US Military (as hamburger buns for the US Civilians or bullets for the US Military). Undermining years of my men's and women's work, gaining the trust of the Afghans, in just one night were the President Obama Political Appointees Eikenberry's and Holbrooke's Embassy Security Guards dancing around drunk and naked proving to the dirt poor Afghans "the decedence of the foreigners" (criminal law breakers") as stated by the Taliban, Al Quada, Hamas Foreign Fighters, Chechen Foreign Fighters, Pakistanis Taliban, Former USSR Republics (Tajikistan, Uzebekistan, Abkhazia, etc.), Kurdistanis elements, etc..

Included in the thousands of US Civilians sent here by President Obama were hundreds of ambulance chasers (Lawyers) to prosecute (not defend) the Military for violations of the Four Legal Authorities Over the US Military: UN Conventional Rules of Warfare; Local Laws (Islamic, Holy Koran (Quran), Hadith Laws, Fiqh Laws, Sharia Laws, Afghan Tribal Laws, etc.), US Civil Laws, UCMJ (including Adultery, Fornication, Fraternization, etc. and other "Morality" Laws). While these US Civilians (and Lawyers) being exempt from these Laws.

Anne of Truth - Bushes' wars are wars of aggression, and are therefore in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

Uninformed post. As both Iraq and here (Afghanistan) are United Nations Missions (Nation Building/Rebuilding).

You can keep citing the Geneva Convention without even knowing the intent nor when the Convention was held.

How about taking the courses pertaining to US Military Law as required for US Military Officers.

Anne -

You, so-called liberals just do not get it, do you? The military is MANDATED by out Constitution (perhaps you should read it sometime and try to understand it). Welfare is NOT mandated.

Most of your ilk will not be happy until there's another 9-11, and then you'll blame it on the military - the same military that has had their hands tied by the progressive politicians we currently have running this country over the proverbial cliff.

Appeasing the enemy has been tried before. FDR tried it. Look what it got us. Pearl Harbor bombed by the Japanese. And how many died in Europe who did not need to?

When a president bows and kow-tows to foreign leaders instead of greeting them as equals, this is a problem. When a president apologizes for 'perceived slights' for saving that country's sovereignty, this is a problem.

In my book, this is traitorous.

david -

Thank you for your service. My youngest is serving in the Navy right now and was IA in Iraq. He came back in May. My husband and I both served in the Air Force, luckily during peacetime, but we were willing to serve as needed, no questions asked.

Tammy-311614 - My husband and I both served in the Air Force, luckily during peacetime, but we were willing to serve as needed, no questions asked.

People think that "peacetime" did not involve "Combat". As my US Military Officer involvement with the "Middle East" since the 1980s. US Military Training Teams sent from Germany to Iraq during the Iran Iraq Wars. US Military Training Teams sent from Germany as an asset to the Agency to Pakistan to train the Pro Western Afghan Muhajeen (not the 1990s Taliban). As the US Military Training Team members accompany those that they trained into Combat, to correct later training or on the spot corrections. As to how one of my "Lionesses" (term we use now, Female O-1) got shot and ended up at Landstuhl with a collapsed lung and a couple of broken ribs, we believe that the sniper that shot her, we shot and killed was part of a USSR Spetsnaz Hunter Killer Team. She is with us now as my Operations Officer as a O-5. As then (1980s) like now we already knew by Islamic Laws only females deal with females (most of us are also trained as Physicians Assistants). Some of ourother "Peacetime" assignments being Darfur, Somalia, South and Central Americas, Philippines, Indonesia, etc..

It was my own fault for becoming "Middle East" Qualified, as I believed that it was safer than becoming USSR Qualified. Since the US got kicked out of Iran, 1979, so it would be unlikely the US would be returning to the Middle East in the near future (how wrong I was). Being part of the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF) I had seen the writing on the wall with the upcoming SALT, START, etc. as no Mission (Job) afterwards, as to why I changed Functional Area (again voluntold into my current Functional Area). My distaste for Combat was having been 1970s Selective Service Field Artillery, then "voluntold" (I was told I volunteered) into LRRP/Ranger.

You would really not like to get involved with the current mess. As the "President Obama withdrawal of Combat Forces from Iraq" is just a matter of semantics (word games). As the US Military Combat Units are withdrawn from Iraq and replaced one for one with "Non Combat" Units trained at Fort Dix as Combatants (rushed US Infantry course). example: My USAF Officer younger Brother In Law currently at Iraq (rushed thru the US Infantry Course at Fort Dix).

What's a "failer"???

Do you really think things would be better right now if McCain/Palin had won the presidency? I can't prove this but I'm quite sure they would be worse if anything.

At least legislation like the health care debacle would not have passed, making it even more likely that this country will become insolvent. Another trillion+ that this country cannot afford - to be paid for on the backs of the actual taxpayers of this country.

leroy brown - Do you really think things would be better right now if McCain/Palin had won the presidency? I can't prove this but I'm quite sure they would be worse if anything.

At least McCain obeyed the Law that he co authored. The McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act). Unlike those that did not adhere to the Law and received nearly a billion USDs each as Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions from this list:

(List from 2005) Delaware: Freddie Mac, Fanny Mae, Bank of America, Wilmington Trust, First USA / Bank One / JPMorgan Chase, AIG, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, Barclays plc, GM, Chrysler, Wachovia, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ISDA, and those States with Corporations Incorporated at Delaware.

2010, Who do you think briefed the US Supreme Court on Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions. And admitted during the 2010 "Brief" violations of the McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Law (Act) and was fined $200,000 recently (after the US Supreme Court Ruling lessened the criminality of the Law).

David, again, you really need to fact check. Look at the history of the election just two weeks ago. Conservative supreme court Citizen's United decision has shown that no one, not even McCain was frugal and honest about campaign contributions. This is a direct result of Conservatives!!!! Buying and selling our once ethical government, media lies and innuendos to get what they want, no checks and balances on what is allowed to be said on public radio and TV stations. These people ARE the millionaires. Of course they are going to be for lower taxes and they are basically Republicans. And they use fear and intimidation to promote their right wing biased agenda. The rich getting richer at the expense of the middle class. And now the middle class being ASKED by these wealthy to give more and get even less.

Doogal - David, again, you really need to fact check.

You need to go to D.C. (Dysfunctional Congress) and do the research.

Like stated before, you need to figure out who "Mr. Corporate America" is. Your $100 donations only paid for a few hours for the Nationwide Campaign Offices Rent versus the Billions from the list at post#21.4. By the way research the States of the Bailout Recipients as either Blue or Red and they were NOT Repugnants as a correlation to the physical locations of the Electoral College Votes.

Doogal - Buying and selling our once ethical government,

Really when was our government "ethical". As the Founding Fathers believed (Library of Congress) that "the Common Man was too ignorant to determine the highest offices of the land, President and Vice President" and created the Electoral College.

And by the way instead of using "factcheck.org", get off your butt and do your own independent research (multiple sources to verify one fact as basic research principles) as the money for the operation of factcheck.org has to come from somewhere (strings attached), just like the Misery Index was/is funded by the DNC (which backfired on the DNC when it was found that the Democratic Party creates a higher Misery Index for all US Citizens, their own data aka "factchecks").

The Opposite of Pro gress is Con gress.

Doogal -These people ARE the millionaires. Of course they are going to be for lower taxes and they are basically Republicans.

Most of the 237 Millionaires in Congress are Democrats. If you want I can spoonfeed you the list by name and how much they have. Or you can do your own research and gain some real knowledge (including finding out the procedures to obtain the information). (A reason why the US Education System is a failure, most cannot use cognitive skills and instead expect to be spoonfed as an Entitlement or misperceived "Right".).

Doogal - And now the middle class being ASKED by these wealthy to give more and get even less.

What a farce. This is about Tax Cuts. As the President Bush Tax Cuts were for everyone including the "Middle Class". So you want Democratic Equality that would also mean eliminating the "Middle Class" President Bush Tax Cuts. Do not talk out of both ends.

you realize that $1000 a month is nearly 1/2 of the poverty level, right? Will you do the job for that rate?

That what you get when you have just SSI.People use depend on the Job Retirement along with SSI.But now since the Job Retirements are all most null..All you have left is the SSI for retirement...There no way anyone can live off of just $1000.00 a month..Not when rent is $700.00 and up..This is what happening before people eyes..What the hell is the Government going to tell the old people you cant retire and must work till the day u die..Sh!t people needs Jobs first..This is why they (Government) are looking again to raise the retirement age..Hell why dont the Government just raise it to the age 100 then for sure the Politicians will extra money in there pocket...

smead, aren't you now advocating an increase in those 'entitlement programs'?

As far as SS is concerned, you will get back every dollar you put in, with interest, in just 7 years of collecting. After that, it is welfare.

People are living on SSI and welfare now.Where you been? Just keep working for us Old farts and cripples..By the time u get where we are..There be nothing left..So hang on to that Job...Haha You are not going to see Retirement..

stspecialk -

Then why is it possible to collect SSI without having contributed? It has been happening for years. It actually started with the Vietnamese refugees, but it has never been stopped.

The other side of the coin is the poor schmuck who toils all his life contributing to SS and dies just before or after retirement. No benefits paid except possibly to a wife or disabled child left behind. If all retirees lived to 85 or 90, SS would go broke pretty quickly.

you can only receive disability payments w/o contributing or having a spouse who contributed.

The thing is, stspecialk, it should not come out of Social Security. That's not what it was set up for.

I'm not sure of time put in by senators and judges but I never begrudge the pay received by refuse collectors (garbage truck guys). They earn their pay for work not many would be willing to do.

garbage collection is not a government expendeture in almost all areas, complain to the company.

oops...wrong place

"Eat the rich" is not a right wing expression. Rousseau told LOUIS XVI prior to the French revolution that when the poor have nothing to eat they will eat the rich. Bad things happen when social disparity is too great and the middle class withers away. At first, the bad things happen to the poor, latter to the wealthy. If the US really wants to be a democracy and not go socialist or become a military dictatorship, we need the wealth dispariety to diminish. I am one that believes wealth is not created, but just shifts hands and consolidates in our present economic system.

I guess that Bill has never listened to Aerosmith, or read Rousseau for the quote.

I can't believe he thought that I am a 'rightie'

The only reason Daddy left them money is because there Daddy is corrupted...

then get a job!!!

ps. the ONLY way to get SS if you haven't paid in is to be disabled.

Stspecialk

Your and idiot..To live in today society you need a Job that pays $25 and up..But wait thats not all..What about your future? Someday u will hit that old age and i hope the hell SSI is gone by the time you reach that age..Then were going to say..Get a Job!! By then i be dead and gone..So who cares...

in 7 years of collecting SS, you get back EVERY DOLLAR you put in, with interest. Every day after 7 years is WELFARE!!!

I am already planning my future around the fact that the boomers will run SS dry long before I retire.

You need to save the world. So go somewhere else and do it. It's people like you that think you know everything that should be running for the office of the President so you can find out you don't know @!$%#.

Sespecialk

Once the Market crash..You would not have to worry..There be a civil war by then...

wesley. a man with a brain....but then you must be "rich" or a tea party member or republican because you pay taxes (and disagree with st special k) and if like me are sick of paying for others who chose not to work or plan for the future. Isn't it amazing that some people know all about your job, salary, and voting history.....because you disagree with a poster? My big losses came in 1999 and have just recovered in the past year....I hope I can bail before too big a hit with Obamas health care plan takes out the insurance companies...

what did I write that isn't true?