We could not afford the government that we have had for the last 30-years. We have not paid for it, and are still not able to pay for it. Shared sacrifice has served this country in the past, and it is the only way we are going to through the budget and deficit crisis we are facing. Everyone has to shoulder the load, or the America that we learned about in history books will be history.

Yes decrease revenue and increase spending, always a solid financial decision......

FAIL!

I agree, Fly. I would have greatly preferred to let the tax cuts expire as they were originally intended. The loss of the little money it would have cost me would not have made any difference. Everyone agrees we need the money. The GOP has been doing nothing but crowing that they will not tolerate the continued borrowing that the Democrats have supposedly engaged in. Yet, now we have have both parties engaging in the time-honored yet despicable GOP practice of buying votes with minor, worthless tax cuts. Time to start paying the bills, dammit! It's not like this tax cut is actually going to create a single job anyway. Our representatives are morons.

You're right FLYNAVY, we all need to share the load. Presently, however, the wealthiest 10% of Americans are paying 70% of all income taxes, so it looks like it's actually time for the other 90% of us to ante up. Don't like to hear that, huh?

The Problem here is that this Congress could not plan past their noses. The Liberal Dems in Congress can complain all they want about this deal but they are the ones that should take ownership for this problem. They had a filibuster proof Senate and a huge majority in the House and did not use it when they had the chance. They could have passed every liberal item on their agenda last year but instead let them drag out because of Party in-fighting.

I am not an Obama supporter in the least. In fact I think he has never been up to this job. However; he is playing the cards dealt to him and that is a pretty crappy hand. On the bright side for the President, he got 13 months of unemployment benefits for the unemployed and did not have to use the left over stimulus money to pay for them. He also got the $400 for an individual filer and $800 for a family rebate for the 2010 filing year.

In exchange the tax cuts will be extended across the board but for only 2 years. This will be a win for one side or the other. Basically the Republican party will have 2 years to convince businesses that they must hire and convince the voters and job seekers that the tax cut extension was a good deal and should become permanent.

On the other hand if it does not play out and the unemployment hovers above 8% the Dems will have a huge card to play in the 2012 elections, in that they can say the Republicans were wrong and they added $140 billion to the deficit (even though that money should never have been counted as revenue in the first place).

This will be a huge talking point for the next 2 years and at least one big looser in 2012. If the businesses do create the jobs and get the economy going again then the Dems will get another shellacking in 2012. If the tax cut extensions do not work then the Republicans will be the looser and the top 2% money earners will be the biggest looser because there will be no available argument to give them any further breaks ever.

Good arguments, Michael. I bet the unemployment rate stays pretty constant over the next 24 months though.

Michael Lockwood

I agree Michael, I thought he did OK, i don't see why all the moaning. If they don't pass this and it goes to the next congress, It's going to be a worse deal, and he knows it.

Dems bailed out greedy wallstreet and the first thing the Repubs do is blackmail us. "If you don't give our uber-elite, ludicrously wealthy friends a tax break, you know the top 1% making more than 24% of the nation's wealth, than we won't pass any laws helping save the middle class from absolute poverty and joblessness."

People voted Dems in for change, and then they voted Repubs in for change and what did both of them do? Protected their wealthy lobbyists and campaign contributors to the EXCLUSION of their constituents (not all but most).

WELL HEAR THIS POLITICIANS. If you keep giving everything to the rich and nothing to the rest of us, if you keep borrowing from today so that there is nothing left but debt for tomorrow, there will be ANARCHY in this country because people are downright fed UP with all your shenanigans in that cesspool of shady backroom deal making you call Capitol Hill!

When will our political leaders address the core problems facing Americans? America is suffering from the inability to have a balanced budget, whether State or Federal, Out of control Government Salaries and Entitlements, the Military Industrial Complex's spending, the lack of looking out for the Tax Paying Americans interest?

Robbing the future for immediate gratification, growing government, government entitlements, raising taxes (fees) are not answers.

America - a nation without leadership, in decline.

Yes, just like Obamacare was forced down our throats.

Does anyone think for one minute if the tax cuts expired Washington would pay down on the debt? I don't, I think they would spend it. Besides it wouldn't make a dent in it. The problem is spending money on entitlements before you even address the issue with the ones already created. Where does the money come from when we all quit working or lose jobs because the government takes it all to spend? Maybe it's just me but I pay my bills and save some before I spend anything. Yes I know it's a crazy idea but I was taught not to count on handouts.

I think "trekintheuniverse" rant "WELL HEAR THIS POLITICIANS. If you keep giving everything to the rich and nothing to the rest of us" shows the real problem. stop looking for everyone to give you somehting

Republicans are Fiscal Hypocrites.

In 2003 the Republicans controlled the White House and Congress. And with that power they passed the $400 billion Medicare prescription drug bill. Many of the Republicans who backed the historic big government bill are shamelessly sanctimonious about spending today.

There is a spending problem in Washington which is the sole reason for our taxes being too high. It's easy to do when you're not spending your own money but the money of others. Tax the so-called rich out of existance and there will still be a deficit in Washington because our politians just don't get it and we've trained multiple generations of people to expect something for nothing.

Aren't the rich already taxed at the highest rate? I'm not following the argument. Isn't it the rich that invest in businesses that hire people? How can taxing and taking more from them be a responsible thing to do? Some of you sound like the "give me" crowd.

Republicans are Fiscal Hypocrites:

Do you know why the House Republicans' "Pledge to America" does not include any proposed solutions to the impending fiscal crisis caused by exploding entitlements? There is no room for solutions because they needed the space for pictures, which consume 12 of the document's 48 pages.

The illustrations include about 40 photos of Republican representatives rubbing elbows with commoners, a full-page photo of the Statue of Liberty, a full-page photo of Mount Rushmore, a half-page photo of the Capitol dome, a half-page photo of a lasso-whirling cowboy on horseback in silhouette against a sunset, and one-third-page shots of the Capitol, the White House, and the Supreme Court.

The actual text is repetitive and consists largely of rhetorical flourishes. The actual substance probably could have been boiled down to a single two-sided sheet.

Ben-2027170

did you know that almost 70% of the big business pay no taxes at all?
all you have to do is "move" to Cayman Islands

No amount of revenue can overcome out of control spending. The government is like a friend of mine...each time he gets a raise he increases his spending by 50% more than the raise...he's declared bankruptcy a few times already (in his 40's now).

Having said that, I'd let all of the Bush tax cuts expire now and pay for UI extensions from existing revenue. I don't want to continue burdening future generations with our excess spending.

Bayllie - and if the Republicans don't show some fiscal sanity, we'll vote them out next time just like we did in 2006 and 2008. (and this wasn't a good start for them in my opinion) Right now neither party seems to care about anything but buying votes...I'm not sure they learned anything from the last election.

This i for "too much" if we should not be looking for them to give us anything should that include the richest 2% of this nation that get served on silver platters every day by the Republicans!!!!!

When repayments are factored in, this welfare program for rich people will cost more than TARP. Unlike the rescue of the financial industry and maufacturing sector, which benefited all Americans, this bail out benefits only the wealthiest among us and is a pure give away that will not be repaid by the recipients, but by future generations of Americans.

Shameful.

Micahael Lockwood - you have laid it pretty well, except that I believe that the Democrats wanted to have this fight in the lame Duck session so that they could squeeze the last bit of Stimulus out of the Congressional Purse BEFORE the next Congress because with a Republican House and a Democratic Senate NOTHING will get done except national defense.

PMSNBC "manipulates the wording of the question so well?"

PARASITIC morons!

God forbid some news group with GUTS would report on how "ineffective and useless MOST government agencies truly are.

Just because WE need a strong Defense Dept., is no excuse for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars.

What exactly DOES the Department of Energy really do? Another mystery?

Run down the list of each Cabinet post and their Departments.

Then look at their annual budgets;

Then ask yourself, "So what does this agency truly accomplish?

And, "How or Why does it cost so many BILLIONS of dollars?"

What even a 5th grader can determine is that anywhere from 25% to 50% of the BILLIONS spent on most Federal Agencies is TOTALLY WASTED!!!

Inefficiency, Waste, Fraud and Abuse on things the American government can EASILY do without.

Are there "some parts of our government" that seem to do a good job?

Is there any single Federal agency that cannot afford to lose 10 to 20% of its work force?

The VERY FIRST PLACE for America to control the budget is to RADICALLY REDUCE the size of our MORBIDLY OBESE government.

If anyone in this country should be laid off... it is Federal workers FIRST... along with their MAFIA-like Unions.

I'm sure most federal workers are nice people... BUT my loyalty is to the PRIVATE SECTOR EMPLOYERS... NEVER to our government... with the single exception of our MILITARY. Other than our Military, the rest of them can see what its like to lose THEIR jobs and watch their agency CLOSE and then LOSE their homes, cars and savings? Especially each and every one of their UNION leaders aka "blood sucking parasites".

Our country is FOURTEEN TRILLION in debt and our government needs to have its GLUTTONOUS mouth & stomach STAPLED.

This deal could pave the way for a more productive economy and better fiscal restraint in the next congress. Let's wait to pass judgement until we see if republicans are serious about cutting spending.

while the repub idiots keep ranting about how the rich are paying 70% tax and that they deserve paying less tax. They simnply ignore to realize that almost 100% of the u.s. soldiers fighting the two stupid republican wars in iraq and afganistan are children of middle classes and the poor. These middle classe and poor americans are sacrificing themselves so that the rich fat cats in this country are safe. The rich fat americans are leeching off from the lives of these less fortunate americans. They ought to pay up!!! The stupid republican idiots posting on these blogs ranting against middle class americans paying less tax than the rich are simply evil. They simply love to fight and see democrats suffer. They really are evil! If these idiot republicans love to fight so much. Go to iraq and afganista and fight to your hearts' content. Stop fighting against the due benefits of middle class american families whose children are dying to save your big fat a**es!

The only advantage that I can see to this is that the republican party will no longer be able to ever claim to represent fiscal conservatism.

The next one that points a finger at the democrats and says "tax and spend" should be laughed out of politics.

Republicans are fiscal hypocrites because they started a war in Iraq (for no other reason than starting a war and/or profit) and now this country is forced to fork over $9 billion a month to pay for it. That is actually a small price to pay compared to the price of sons/husbands/wives/daughters coming back in body bags.

Republicans are fiscal hypocrites because they took out a bad loan with China that costs us $250 billion a year in interest alone.

Republicans are fiscal hypocrites because, while they criticize the bailout of GM, they forget that they had a bail out as well - the blank check bailout.

I have nothing against people making as much money as they can;, but the middle class is on the verge of total collapse; limit the cuts to a reasonable figure , less than 1 million, exempt small business even more, and most of all get the hell out of Iraqi and Afghan !

Everyone has to shoulder the load, or the America that we learned about in history books will be history.

The American labor movement IS history. We're at the mercy of our rulers - the Chinese. We dare not do what we need to do - slap tariffs on their flood of goods.

So here we are with our own oligarchy calling the shots - the American central committee. When the polls say one thing and Washington does another - something has gone very wrong.

OBAMA could allow the lower incomes to have to pay taxes.

If the middle class had to pay when Obama wants another handoput program, he'd never get one, he had to keep them from paying taxes.

kdbwheels

Maybe so. However; I think they put too much at the last in hopes that they would have done better in the Nov elections. I think that many really got surprised by the amount of seats lost in the House and position it put the Dems in after the election was over. I think there has been a lot of "aaawww sh%ts" and finger pointing going on behind the scenes.

I also notice clowns like Gutierrez from Illinois and Reid from NV that continue to try to push legislation that are non-starters for the majority of legal resident of this Country. Gutierrez said that if the Dream Act is not passed then he recommends that the Hispanics start their own party and not support the Dems. Reid is pushing for the same thing and also wants on line gambling legalized.

I don't think that the DREAM Act should be approved because I don't think any kind of Amnesty is okay. I also don't feel that the tax payers should have to fund a program to pay for the further education of people that shouldn't be here in the first place. Why would we as tax payers want to guarantee student loans to illegals? Why would we want to add 2 million plus to the economy when we already have so many millions unemployed?

I don't have anything against gambling but don't feel this is more important than making sure the more important legislation is taken care of first. Make sure the tax cuts are done and the people get their unemployment benefits and then worry about the little stuff afterwards.

saxon

the rich are committing a financial suicide by slowly destroying the very class that pays for their products or services.

Obama should not agree to decreasing taxes to the wealthy or decreasing the estate tax. Just another giveaway to the wealthy that the rest of us will pay for. The Republicans should be ashamed of themselves for blackmailing the president with this demand in exchange for estended unemployment benefits! The Republicans only care about taking care of their money and the money of their rich friends that put thaem into office. Bush Jr. made it clear that he didn't care about fiscal responsibility and the Republicans are just continuing the same expensive agenda!! And Obama just caves in at the first sign of resistance...

Becky-2120568

Yes, just like Obamacare was forced down our throats.

Please support that statement with evidence. I know that the HCR was passed by legally elected Congress. The Congress voted in a manner that the Constitution requires them to. The Republicans exercised their right to filibuster but then they voted.

Please explain how anything was forced down your throat?

Please explain how taking away the right to deny coverage to a sick child is bad?

Please explain how creating competition to what is not a health insurance rate monopoly a bad thing? Which by the way was killed by the Republicans.

Please stop quoting Beck and Palin and the rest of the Fox greedy losers.

Is it just me or are the terms "billions" and "trillions" making us numb? Its sad when Citigroup's $57 billion repayment to the government for its TARP loan is just a small drop in the bucket compared to the "trillions" in debt. $57 billion used to be a big number. Now? Eh, not so much.

Just like the new contract for outfielder Jason Werth of the Washington Nationals for $126 million. Eh, whatever.

bayllie; good point, by the destruction of the middle class; the wealthy class are destroying the consumer base , that buys the product, that drives the corporate earnings and stock prices; is that why the flight to overseas company's, investments, factory's; could Ross Perot have been right and the media wrong ?

Everyone has to shoulder the load, or the America that we learned about in history books will be history.

Does that iinclude the approximately 47% of individuals who pay no income tax?

Gee Spider,

The wealthiest 10% pay 70% of the income taxes? Let's see, how much of the wealth do they have? 99%? I would say we really need to increase their taxes, they are not paying their fair share.

Doesn't the top 5% already pay more in taxes (percent (35%) and total cash) than the rest of us 95% (Negative/0% - 25%)?

So how aren't they doing their part? Or are the rest of us not paying enough or demanding more than we deserve?

I may not be rich, but I am moral and fair.

saxon.

I hate to compare to Europe because it's a different king of an animal but in Europe you are required to pay taxes if you do business there. You don't like it, thee will be 10 other companies that will take you place.

We allow these corporations to become so big and powerful, that they simply become the sacred cow.

This will surprised many of you (sarcasm) but companies that pay taxes do hire as long as the hiring equals profit. People have jobs; they have money to spend; they buy goods and services; they keep this wheel going. No jobs=no spending=no revenue.

Well, the President sold out the middle class once again for the elite. It has been D.C. for many long years, who has paved the road for such disparity. And what does the tax break do for the many part-time and unemployed contractors, etc., etc., who are never eligible for U.E.? Nothing!! The real American Dream is for the elite and never for the middle class, poor, or the elderly, who are forced to get by on less than the minimum standard of living. For the latter group, it is all about continual abuse and take away with never a balanced share of the burden among the elite. And to pay for these tax breaks for the elite, the burden will be placed on the middle class and elderly through cut backs on SS, Medicare, VA, lowered property tax deductions (which has the strong potential to promote even more home foreclosures), higher medical expenses, higher health insurance even with the new Health Reform, etc., etc., etc. All those cuts just to cover the tax extension breaks for the rich at the cost of 30 B (for m.c. and poor) to over a Trillion for the 2% elite for the next two years. What part of this Recession and afterwords will be a burden on the elite?? You will find out once again, that this tax cut is very bad for our economy. It became the most fiscally irresponsible bill this year, the moment it passed as-well-as it will not create new jobs. We were willing to forgo those few dollars on the tax break because the amount was so small and did nothing to bring down the deficit. These very actions pave the road for the Bimbo Palin Tea Party (It’s too bad they don’t have a more stable, intellectual leader guiding them). Our family will not vote for any of those 3 parties. We need a responsible person not afraid to stand up with some spine, doesn’t spend what is not available, can negotiate without running off to two unpaid wars at the expense of so many young lives, doesn’t kill the American Dream for the vast majority, and listens to the middle class, poor, and elderly, while not continually caving into the elite whiners wanting an even bigger piece of the pie. How convenient for this tax cut set to expire in 2 years after the next election???? Obama’s and Democrats only interest is to save their reelection and not what is good for the economy!!!! (I’d rather go down with one term saying I stood up for the majority along with my campaign promises of doing what was best for the whole economy to create new jobs, rather than to pander to the other side always wanting more tax breaks or special deals). Plus the Republicans are already in control of the House for at least one term. They have nothing to lose and even more to gain. Shame on both the parties and the Pres. now in D.C.!!!

Here is a message that came from a Congressman to a family member:

“We hear a lot of talk about the “Bush Tax Cuts.” And why not? According to Newsweek, George W. Bush “earns” $4.2 million from paid speeches, public appearances and miscellaneous punditry each year. Hence the Bush Tax Cuts cut Bush’s own taxes by an amazing $187,552 each year. And that’s not even counting how much the Bush tax cuts engorge Bush’s investment income.

So Bush cut his own taxes. No wonder Bush is in favor of extending those tax cuts.

He’s not the only one. Here is how much the Bush tax cuts benefit – each year – some other folks you may have heard of:

Rush Limbaugh - $2,689,135.
Glenn Beck - $1,512,352
Sean Hannity - $1,006,352
Bill O’Reilly - $914,352
Sarah Palin - $638,352
Newt Gingrich - $247,352

Maybe we should call them the “Rush Limbaugh Tax Cuts.” Or the “Glenn Beck Tax Cuts.” Because the reason why these right-wing support tax cuts for the rich is that they support tax cuts for themselves.

Which will cost our country almost $100 billion a year. Enough to give $30,000-a-year jobs to 3 million Americans. To cut unemployment by two percent, immediately. And to get our economy moving again. I’m not going to vote for tax cuts for the rich. I’m going to vote for jobs.”

And yes, big business, Chamber of Commerce, and the voters voted this Congressman out of office. You get exactly what you voted for.

Mark Crabb wrote: "Doesn't the top 5% already pay more in taxes and total than the rest of us 95% ... I may not be rich, but I am moral and fair?"

It's the middle class and poor americans who are fighting the republican wars in iraq and afganistan so that the rich and get more filthy rich. The middle class and the poor americans have already paid with their lives while the rich are getting richer on their big fat a**es safely and comfortably at home. meahwhile, the spouses and children of the dead and maimed soldiers are starving to death and wondering what will be their future. Is that fair?

I've written every one of my representatives from my state this morning telling them to level with the American people (that we are broke, and cannot afford to extend the tax cuts, and need to cut spending 40%)

Most of all the comments here on the vine are well founded. Take your writing skills to your elected officials.

We are going to very shortly see who is about America and it's future, and which of our elected officials are just about party and money. I can't remember when so much was being asked of a lame-duck congress. Even considering WWII... I'm not sure how much is going to be asked of the American people....

Anybody see the education report today and where we rank in the world? This is our future...... It does not look good.

Some Christmas this year don't you think?

What I would like is little more effort from those not in the upper %1 of America. Why should they take the brunt of the financial woes in America? Presently, I pay about 40% of my income out in taxes (you're welcome freeloaders), and have worked harder than anyone I know to get where I am. It's insulting that anyone should have to be subject to such rabble insisting that because people make more money they should get raked. How about the rest of America accept tax increases of the same percentage as the top 1%? Would that be fair?

The problem is that top rates are way too low. Have been for way too long. We're supposed to have a progressive rate system, yet even pre-Bush rates stop going up at 39.6% for $384,000. The current system is weighted too much toward the lower end of the spectrum.

The payroll tax rates essentially stop totally above an even much lower level and they are not progressive. Even the very lowest earners pay the same rates. Add in the fact that for many top earners who get a lot of their incomes from Capital gains, and "effective" rates for top earners are even lower yet.

Most people don't even realize this because they make much less than the top cut offs. For most of us it's a case of "the more you make, the more they take." However, for the top 2 or 3 percent, that's not the case, in fact it's just the opposite. Rates in "comparable" countries are much higher at the top levels. For many years we were too, but then the burden shifted to primarily middle class earners.

Some complain that low earners pay no income tax, but they still pay payroll taxes at the same rate as everyone else. To be truly fair I can understand these low earners paying some income tax even down to a fractional percent of their income. The problem with this though is that when the tax owed gets small enough, it isn't even practical to collect it because the cost to support that would exceed the revenue it brings in. Bottom line is we hit most of these people pretty hard with just payroll taxes already.

If you do the math based on all earnings, (not separating capital gains), the tax burden could and should move upwards. The formulas should be shifted such that total effective tax rates go lower for everyone earning ~$150,000 or less while rates above that progressively rise. If the top rate cap level was in the $5-10 million area and top rates were in the 50-60% range, deficits would be gone in no time and painful budget cuts wouldn't be necessary.

Globalization has screwed things up too, as it is advantageous to generate profit from foreign operation while living here and paying taxes here. This just takes capital investment out of the US and costs us both jobs and revenue. Manipulating the global economy to one's advantage is only available to the top money earners. For the average person who needs a plumber or a new roof, he can't export that labor.

The entire tax system needs to be overhauled and updated to account for changes brought upon by the global economy and other income earning methods that simply aren't even available to the average American tax payer.

A new system also needs to be more "wealth" based than "income" based. We don't often think about it that way, but the more wealth you have, the more you are protected by the US government. With the total US wealth being around $50 trillion, and annual government "security" spending being around $1 trillion, that would suggest ~2 cents for every dollar of wealth as being an appropriate share. The way we are taxed actually puts the bulk of this burden on those with the least wealth. We hear all the time that it wouldn't be fair for the wealthy to pay more for Social Security for example, because they would never get an adequate return. But what about "Wealth Security"? For someone who's total wealth may be a few hundred thousand at best, are they getting an adequate return for what they're paying? The point is that the current system is lopsided in many ways and the deck is stacked against average Americans.

"the President sold out the Middle Class" what an incredibly ill-informed and stupid statement. No wonder we are in the mess we are in.

The more taxes you are paying simply means the more money you are earning : what is so hard to understand.

Naturally the better off you are the louder you would complain . Sounds logical doesn't it ?

Does that iinclude the approximately 47% of individuals who pay no income tax?

Good point given that 26% of that group are paying no tax due to loopholes and tax schemes devised by their high paid lobbyists. Or are you complaining about the recent graduates with their student loans and lifelong responsibility to pay for this tax holiday extension and in return can expect any government services (yes even the nasty expensive ones like education, transportation,unemployment safety net, and if they survive eventually social security....) ? They pay no taxes those out of work minions !!!!

They kinda need a job if you expect them to pay taxes. Do you really believe that the graduates that do not have jobs is by choice ?????

On the other hand the millionaire heirs (soon to be billionaire heirs - thanks Obama) that also pay no taxes (thanks globalization/international banking/lobbyists,Republicans,etc.) on huge chunksof wealth/ assets also don't have a job (unless you consider counting and keeping track of their loot work). Are these the "jobless" that you are rooting for ?

A two year extension. Who here believes the Republicans are actually going to let these tax cuts expire in the middle of a campaign? Why should they let them expire then if they weren't willing to let them expire after the original 10 years? The corporations and the billionaires will be pouring anonymous money into the campaign to convince the politicians to keep their tax cuts. We are deluding ourselves if we think they will keep their word on this.

“The critical issue is, how do we get jobs going?” said David Malpass, president of Encima Global, an ecnomics research firm. “The way to get jobs going is to have some plan for small businesses that allows credit, that allows some certainty in the tax code. This doesn't.”

Really? The president of an economic research firm doesn't understand the idea of tariffs and taxing multinationals to incentive businesses to bring the jobs back here from overseas? Well good for him he'll be able to collect 3 years of unemployment once he's outed as being an idiot.

I consider this tax bill a diversion. It's being made out to be all about how it will affect the deficit. How about adjusting government spending to meet the current amout coming in?

I for one don't feel the government should be asking for one penny more from anyone. They are like children that do not understand the value of money. If everytime you gave a child a dollar, and he spent it on a one cent gumball and threw away the change, would you continue giving him a dollar?

Get out of the business of subsidizing foreign countries

Quit catering to multinational banks and companies

Quit bailing out failed businesses

Strangle the budget for government pensions and completely revamp that system.

Make sure program money is going to legal citizens and not criminals

Cut out all earmarks

There's a start.

All of you ignoramuses on here who claim the poor don't pay taxes -

Did you read Warren Buffett's op-ed piece in the NY Times on November 17?

Or happen to read Buffett's challenge to the Forbes 400 back in 2007? You know, the one where he said he'd give any one of them $1 million for their favorite charity if they could show their effective tax rate was higher than their secretary's???? (To date, not ONE of them has claimed that $1 million.)

No? Too busy listening to Rush and Glenn?

Okay, here's the gist of it in short format:

Tom: You've talked about in your office, for example, you pay a much lower tax rate with all of your wealth than, say, a receptionist does.

Warren: That's exactly right, Tom. And I think the only way to do it is with specifics, and in our office, 15 people cooperated in a survey out of 18. I didn't make anybody do it. And my total taxes paid-- payroll taxes plus income tax-- and the payroll tax is an income tax. It's based on income.

Tom: Yeah.

Warren: Mine came to-- 17.7 percent. That was line 61 I think-- or, no, line 43-- is the percent of taxable income, plus payroll taxes, 17.7 percent. The average for the office was 32.9 percent. There wasn't anybody in the office from the receptionist on that paid as low a tax rate. And I have no tax planning. I don't have an accountant. I don't have tax shelters. I just follow what the U.S. Congress tells me to do.

Tom: Why do you think that there's not more outrage about that?

Warren: I don't think people understand it. For one thing, you'll see a lot of surveys that say the rich, the top one percent pay this much of the income tax. Now I think what people don't realize is that almost one third of the entire budget comes from payroll taxes. And payroll taxes on income, just like income taxes are taxes on income.

And the payroll tax is over $800 billion out of two and a trillion, or something like that. And people don't understand-- that the rich pay practically no payroll tax. I mean, I paid payroll tax last year on $90 odd thousand, whatever the number is. I paid income tax on $66 million. But my double income tax, one of 'em quits at $90,000. And the remaining $66 million does not get taxed with payroll tax. So, the person who makes $60,000 in our office gets taxed in full on the payroll tax, and taxed in full on the income tax. And all the statistics you read, particularly the one don't like taxes, well now, they totally ignore the payroll tax. And it's huge now.

You holier-than-thou's don't pay pay Social Security or Medicare taxes on ANY of your unearned income. You don't pay them on income over $106,800. You get all kinds of deductions that us working stiffs can't take off our taxes.

But you don't want to talk about that, now, do you??? Or the fact that over 60% of American corporations pay NO TAX, either. Why do people buy this BS?? Talk about class warfare.

See post #279

RealAmericansFirst,

people believe in Yeti, and UFO and Fox News. Finding out the truth is not one of the things that they enjoy doing. They would rather repeat thing like "rich pay taxes" and Obama is for death camps.

Jobag,

The upper 1% have 90% of the money. That's why they should pay 90% of the taxes. It's that simple. They'll get it back from the middle class anyway. Also if you work harder than anyone you know, you must not know many people. I have always known people who work harder than me that don't have as much money. Any fool knows that income is not based solely on how hard someone works.

What we Americans fail to realize is that the only way out of this dilemma is to sell our goods to people who have money to buy it. We have to do anything to be able to sell to other countries. If we have to learn a little of the Chinese culture, so be it. If this means learning to speak spanish, that's a small price to pay.(Chevy wondered why the Nova didn't sell in Latin America 'no va'). Although we're a melting pot, we know nothing about other countries. This attitude of "we're better than you, so buy our goods" just does not work.

Seems Republicans are adamant about accelerating class warfare. Maybe it is time to do just that. Let's give the Teaparty a clear choice : side with the aristocratic -wannabe elitists/corporatist or side with members of their own economic class .

I have yet to hear a single complaint from a teaparty leader about the huge cost and massive deficit exploding effect of this insane deal.

Kind of ironic (or is it moronic?) to propose that the solution to having shot ourselves in the foot by introducing these original unfunded tax cuts (Bush/Cheney) that resulted in higher deficits/slower growth and a massive recession (great plan that was) is to go ahead and shoot ourselves in the other foot !!!

Mark Crabb

Doesn't the top 5% already pay more in taxes (percent (35%) and total cash) than the rest of us 95% (Negative/0% - 25%)?

So how aren't they doing their part? Or are the rest of us not paying enough or demanding more than we deserve?

I may not be rich, but I am moral and fair.

You are correct, it must not be fair that the top 5% already own 90% !!!!

Pray tell me what % would be MORAL and FAIR ????????

There are NO TAX CUTS! The tax rates will just stay the same they ARE NOW!
How STUPID do they think we are? Obama and the Democrats get to SPEND MORE MONEY on unemployment we do not have, and the Republicans actually got NOTHING!

Is it a PAY RAISE when YOUR PAY STAYS THE SAME?

Obama should have gotten taxes increased for the over $1,000,000 a year people. The Republicans should have NOT let unemployment OVER TWO YEARS BE FUNDED.

That would have been RESPONSIBLE from BOTH SIDES! BUT yet again the STUPIDITY of POWER POLITICS has ruled the day.

Ignorant idiot politicians...they NEVER DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY, only for THEMSELVES or their STUPID POLITICAL PARTY!

AND I mean both democrats and republicans. When will we the people have enough of these gutless wonders and start electing people that can ONLY SERVE ONE TERM that will DO WHAT IS RIGHT instead of what will get them RE-ELECTED?

if taxpayers are paying less with the compromise, how is it they are paying more???? That will be the problem one day, until then, too many Americans want something for nothing or want the rich to pay for it all! I am not rich and I believe everybody needs to get off their a$$ and get a job, we should all be willing to pay more taxes to solve the debt problem, and we need to reduce the incentives to be a "leach" of the American taxpayers. To reduce spending, cut the Senate and House members in half and reduce all terms to 2 years- maybe they would start doing something for this country instead of working in their best interest.

The only way we can offset the cost imposed by this deal is to cut gov't spending...The question is if our current Administration willing to trim down our current gov't spend...My gut tells me no, especially since we're beginning to hear about the new Dream Act...

The taxpayer has a say in the election process. That's the only way "into the room".

I agree with leaving the tax cuts in place for one or two years then gradualy increase the taxes over say a 4 year span on those making over $1,000,000.00 a year to the previous rate.

I do not think the cut in SS taxes is a good idea and think the unemployment benefit should have only been extended a maximum of 8 months.

I see in the article that Obama now says taxes should be increased on those making over $200,000 a year. What happened to the $500,000 figure he originaly was using?

Here is an analogy to counter some the doublespeak Republican talking points.

The Bush/Cheney (51st vote - in the good old days when a Senate majority vote was weirdly defined as "more than half") temporary tax discount was exactly that; a temporary reduction exactly the same as the temporary reduction in price on some products on "Black Friday". To then return on Monday after the sale expires and claim the store is now trying to cheat you because they "raised" the price from Friday is exactly the argument being made. Once the sale or the temporary tax reduction law expires as very clearly understood by all parties before the reduction there is little logical basis for such an argument.

America is broke! I don't want to pay higher taxes because a bunch of buffoons spent money we don't have but it wouldn't bother me too much if the tax cuts weren't extended and everyone pays for it. On the other hand creating more unfunded entitlement programs does bother me. And all the while people vote the same bass turds back in office, someone explain that logic to me please! Why would someone work 16 hours a day most of their adult life only to give it away to people lounging on their sofa stuffing their fat arses with government cheese while watching TV all day? For Pete's sake get up and do something to contribute to society. At the very least educate yourself so you can get back to work. Sooner before later the checks stop and then WTF are you going to do?

I like what Michael Lockwood has to say, if anyone hasn't read his posts above.

I am happy in that I feel the feds got done what they needed to get done. Extending tax breaks for those hurting so that some people with dependents wouldn't see thousands of $$ in increased taxes next year. They are also giving the over 200-250 earners a chance to help turn the job market around for the next two years.

Also, without some major reform of UE benefits and the Labor dept., extending them was all they could do to avoid some major problems in local areas and even bigger problems for individual families.

They also seemed to compromise on death taxes and the AMT. So there is plenty that was pushed down the road, but it IS already December. It is like Congress and the Ex Branch put off writing their huge term paper until the very end of the semester, then managed to pull out a 'B' or so with some all-night sessions.

nxander

What is their fair share. Does a person making more than $250,000 use the fire department or cops more than a person making less than that amount? Also what is their fair share to pay for benefits that they will probably never get to use, such as WIC, WELFARE, SNAP, etc.?

Most of the erosion of the middle classes savings is not because of the rich. It's because of the government trying to be the Nanny to everyone. The fact is we spend Billions of dollars trying to make everyone happy at the expense of the people doing the work.

We have millions of illegals here getting free education and health care for their children as well as free health care for themselves. We have millions on welfare that aren't required to do anything except stay alive to draw their checks.

There is fraud waste and abuse throughout our Government and thousands of government workers that are not needed. There are several branches , if not all, of the government that have agencies and Bureaus that are doing the same jobs as others. Then we have people like the Oil Rig Inspectors making 100k plus and not doing their jobs.

AZChzhd

You are right I think everyone has been numbed by the numbers in that they really have lost the ability to grasp what those numbers mean. If someone proposes a cut of $100 million another person will say why be concerned with that when it is just a drop in the bucket. So my question is where does it start. What constitutes a worthy cut in people's minds?

The problem that is that one side wants to keep the tax cuts in place but has not really offered a cohesive plan to cut the size of Government. The other side wants the tax cuts to end but not to reduce the deficit but to create new programs to redistribute money.

What needs to happen are some of the ideas kicked around by the economic board need to be implemented. All social security records need to be screened and anyone making a certain amount on their retirement accounts should not receive social security benefits. The same goes for medicare.

I just love the way liberals bandy about how the rich don't deserve a tax cut extension. The simple fact of the matter is, the rich provide the jobs in this country. I've never worked for a poor man in my life. It seems the liberals/progressives/democrats have a huge chip on their shoulder for the rich in this country. In fact it appears as though they simply want to steal their money in the form of an unfair tax code. All I hear is how much the rich have unfair advantages over the working class. What a bunch of hooey!

The problem with our government is they spend too much and do NOT control budgets. Not a single elected official will take responsibility for the overspending in the government. There's a lot of finger pointing going around but no one to take responsibility for it.

The article states: Without sizeable cuts in federal spending, Americans can expect higher taxes down the road to cover the cost of the package.

Does any liberal understand what this means? It seems they draw a blank when the words "cuts in federal spending" are spoken. It's not a foreign language liberals. It means stop needless spending and cut the budget to live within the federal means.

Nooooo we can't cut government give aways like welfare for lazy stoop ridden idiots that won't even pick up the trash in front of the stoop they sit on all day. We can't cut federal programs for illegal immigrants that truly hate this country enough to not even learn the language. Hell, we can't even get past the politically correct socialism that is sweeping this land.

The answer is cut federal spending, period! Stop earmarks and pork barrel spending. Why won't someone do that.... hey, maybe it will actually do something to help this country instead of telling Americans they need to have more money taken out of their earnings.

I guess liberals actually enjoy paying more taxes... well here's a brainstorm for you... if you want to contribute more - VOLUNTEER YOUR MONEY! If you have a guilty feeling about not paying enough take the lead and give the government more of YOUR money. You vote these liberals in office that spend it without regard to budgets anyway. Man up! Stop complaining.

Why couldn't the Dems in the Senate Have passed the House Tax bill through Reconciliation like the Republicans did with this last one.

It would have given the Working people of this country a 10 year tax cut and forced the Republicans to carry water for the Aristocracy alone!

Pure lack of Spine!!!!

The Government needs to be reduced by looking at the pros and cons of each bureau and each department and seeing where the money goes, then getting rid of repetitive jobs and repetitive agencies. Also if anyone wants to bother to look the U.S population has not exploded in the last 9 or 10 years, however the size of government and the amount of government workers has. Why the need for the huge increase?

Many will say it's all Bush's fault and look at the size of Homeland Security. Although Bush did as much as any President to grow the size of government, the truth is that most of the agencies within Homeland Security were already in existence but after 9/11 they were gathered under a new cabinet position.

On the other hand Obama did his part in growing government when he signed an Omnibus spending Bill in 2009 and then added the stimulus bill on top of that that gave every Department of Government millions and billions of dollars above what they were running on in the past.

Hundreds of Billions can be saved by reducing these Departments back to their 2001 budget and also reducing the pay of incoming government workers. The government should also contract a lot of the jobs out to the private sector and end tenure within the government service. As it is now, many workers have slacked off because they are no longer in their probationary period and they know it is extremely difficult to get rid of them.

I would also say that every state should look at South Carolina and Utah in how they are using a few million dollars in each state to make sure that illegals for the most part are not employed there. Forcing 12 million or so illegal aliens to self deport due to no jobs can only help the economy. Especially when we have over 14 million people out of work.

There are lots of cuts that can and should be made be made over the next few years and any cut to Government spending is a bonus to all the tax payers in this country.

There are lots of cuts that can and should be made be made over the next few years and any cut to Government spending is a bonus to all the tax payers in this country.

You're right Michael, but we'll need to create another bureaucracy and of course some we'll need more czars.

Oh, I was furious when I first heard this, too.

But then I looked at it from a few different angles.

If I was one of the 2 million who had just lost, or was about to lose, unemployment benefits, I would have been greatly relieved at the announcement last night. See, I was in this situation in 2003, when the GOP passed that heinous tax break for the wealthy and on the same day, tabled the motion to extend UI benefits for the long-term unemployed. It was Friday May 23, 2003. My benefits had run out May 19 - the Monday. My kids were all in the motel room there as I watched this unfold on CSPAN. The Republicans had the majority in both the House and Senate. They didn't even bother to take the unemployed hostage that time - they just dumped us on the streets. The job recovery for the 2001 recession took 47 months.

Yeah, the GOP will be pretty smug about this right now, but we all know they just added hundreds of billions to the deficit to pander to their rich patrons. Those hundreds of billions will have to be paid by us, our children, and our grandchildren - IF WE LET THAT TAX BREAK FOR THE WEALTHY CONTINUE ON. And 2 years from now, maybe all of the 2 million who the President just literally saved from falling onto the street won't remember what he did - that's what the GOP is banking on. They will yell and scream at the tops of their lungs about how they got their way. Thing is, some of those 2 million, whose UI ran out over a week ago are probably facing possible or inevitable eviction right now anyway and the holidays will not be saved. It only takes a few of those who will remember 2 years from now, who will remind people at every chance, what the GOP did to them.

This President did not gamble with those 2 million lives. He stepped up and did what he had to to try and keep them as whole as they can be on UI benefits. He preserved those tax cuts for the middle class. And if I caught the brief mention correctly last night, he even preserved EIC. This is a lifeline for low-income earners struggling to support families on part time and minimum wage jobs. It is also only given to WORKERS. That the GOP is trying to do away with that is nothing short of criminal.

IMHO, if the GOP tactics had occurred as they have in some other arenas, they would be liable for charges of extortion, as I read the definitions. Certainly their threats resulted in fear and their threats pertained to loss of property and possible health or life (think homeless in the Midwest in the winter).

Sometimes the fight is right there in our faces and we still have to exercise some modicum of restraint in order to be able to win down the line. These situations just plain suck. No body likes them.

But we mustn't forget how this came to be:

THE GOP THREATENED TO HOLD UP EVERY OTHER BIT OF LEGISLATION IF IT DID NOT GET TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHY. THIS IS HOSTAGE TAKING. IT IS A FORM OF EXTORTION. IT IS AS WRONG AS IT CAN BE.

THESE TAX CUTS ARE NOT PAID FOR.

THEY MAY HAVE WON THE BATTLE, BUT THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE FORGOTTEN COME 2012.

I was married 10 years and was a single, divorced mom for 15 more. I am very familiar with having to make the least damaging choice between two bad options. This is what the situation boiled down to. And yes, the fight could have been had, but at what cost? Not only would 2 million more Americans have fallen into abject poverty and probably homelessness, but ECONOMISTS projected the loss of 1 million more jobs if UI benefits were discontinued for this group.

If the Democrats and Liberals want to be furious with anyone, they need to look at the corporations that are currently hoarding $1 trillion in cash (Moody's, Oct. 26), who are refusing to hire people. That $1 trillion is equal to 23.8 million jobs paying $42,000/year. THAT $1 TRILLION IS EQUAL TO THE INCREASE IN THE DEFICIT THAT THE 2003 TAX BREAK FOR THE WEALTHY CREATED. Is there a direct correlation between taking that money out of the government and economic bases and where it has ended up?

When the GOP starts chanting about 'reducing the deficit', they are going to have their a$$es handed to them on a platter because what they just did increased the deficit significantly. It's time to end the wars. It's time to revisit government contracts with those who contribute to those campaigns. It's time to overhaul the pay/benefit structure of Congress - not just all the other Federal employees. It's time to tax corporations that have money to hire, but who are holding back and/or keeping money offshore - let them earn tax breaks by hiring and hiring here, in this country. It's time to rescind those tax breaks for the wealthiest 2%.

Democrats need to sit down and figure out a cohesive, consistent message and stick to it. The in-fighting has to stop - because the in-fighting is what contributed to the current situation. Pull together. Show a united front. Tell the minority how it is and stick to it. Dems, you are already on the right side, so get your act together and do the right thing for this country and citizens. If placating the GOP is not good for the country in the long-run, then DON'T DO IT. And have the fight before 2 million or more aren't looking at being tossed on the streets. Don't wait.

Dems, if you are mad about this, then direct that anger toward those who created the problem - the GOP. Hold them accountable. Use that anger to fix what's wrong and work toward positive solutions. It can be done.

Lockwood,

Pure BS!! If we want to trim the Debt, lets start by "TRIMMING" the the massive tax breaks we give to industries such as OIL & Coal. Lets up the Income taxes on money over a million a year back to say Nixon Levels for a decade.

Right now the economy is being pulled farther into the hole by the loss of GOVERNMENT Jobs. The Private sector has added more in the last year than it did in the entire Bush Administration, it is Government job losses that are killing us, yet the right screams for more, just asinine!

As for privatization, it does not work! It cost far more in the long run, because the wealthy have to take their 90% off the top before any of the labor is paid! We cannot continue down this path of VOODOO economics, it is turning the USA into a Banana Republic!

I liked the President's comments today about why he made the deal. He said the Republicans were holding millions of Americans hostage. He said the premise of not negotiating with hostage takers makes sense but when millions are about to be hurt, you have to negotiate.

In fact the Republicans have been behaving like terrorists holding middle class Americans as hostages. The only difference is that the President unfortunately couldn't turn this problem over to a Special Forces sniper team!

OK, I don't really mean the part about the sniper team, but in fact what's been the Republicans' position on the tax cuts for the rich, amounts to blackmail. I wish the Dems could have just passed the middle class cuts, but the Republicans blocked it just like they blocked the unemployment benefits. The Senate Republicans committed in writing to block everything until they got their way. The situation would be even worse after the new year. I hate that he had to make a deal with them, but it was the right thing to do. He had to buy them off to get the hostages freed. If you didn't see the press conference today, look it up and watch it. This will ultimately backfire on the Republicans.

At least they didn't do it behind closed doors and bribe in secret to force/ pass a bill nobody read.

An Independent Thinker

I saw the bonehead from Florida, can't think of his name right now, give those examples of people that benefited from the tax cuts. You left off Obama who gets about the same tax break as Bush with the 4.4 mil he earned.Or how about John Kerry who made 20 mil last year. This gave him an additional 937,760.00 in his and Teresa's pockets. Lets look at Harman from Ca. she keeps an additional 1.8 mil. As a matter of fact if you look at the 10 ten eanrers in Congress eight of them are Dems. Try to be a little more independent in your thinking when you complain about who is getting to keep their money and how much they are keeping.

I don't understand you people that are complaining about the so called tax cuts. People, these are the tax rates that have been in place for the last 10 years. There is not tax cut!!!! If the Bush era tax cuts expired everyone would of had a massive tax increase. This would not of just affected the massive rich but all of the small businesses that are in our country. Just because a business might gross $250,000 a year doesn't mean that is what the business makes. After paying taxes, employees, and business expenses, the owner of the business might make enough to live on. A lot of these small businesses have tax returns done like personal tax forms. These people would have their taxes increased which means to keep the same amount of money coming in to the home, someone will lose a job. I think that if the tax cuts expired that it would of caused a major problem in the economy. Businesses base what they are going to do on how much expenses go out. If they had to pay more out in taxes, they would not hire people and more people would lose their job. I don't know why all of you people seem to hate the "rich". I don't know about you folks but I never got a job from a poor person. Every one I have ever worked for had money. Poor people just can't seem to keep folks employed. I hate that the repubs had to make a deal this bad to keep the tax cuts. Our government seems to want people to depend on them for everything. We already give out 2 years of unemployment, now we will be giving out another year! That is just plain stupid. Where is the 140 billion going to come from? I think that the unemployment should expire and make the folks get off their butts to find a job. Even if they don't make the amount that they used to, they would still be having money coming in.

Robert-1410076

I don't understand you people that are complaining about the so called tax cuts. People, these are the tax rates that have been in place for the last 10 years. There is not tax cut!!!! If the Bush era tax cuts expired everyone would of had a massive tax increase.

===================================

Robert, the people voted against the spending policies of both parties. To keep the rates the same wil cost any where from $500 billion to $1 trillion. Pray tell----where is that money coming from? Reduced government spending? Ha, don't make me laugh. They're hoping consumers will spend leading to business hiring. Not going to happen. Businesses in the US are sitting on $1.8 TRILLION. If that hasn't stimulated the economy this sure won't

Where are all the tea baggers who were SOOOOOOOOO angry at Congress? Pink Floyd's got it right---money, share it fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie. How sad that is where we've gotten to.

Let the hypocracy begin.

BTW----anyone watching the naked shorts JP Morgan has against silver?

There is nothing worse than a politician during a recession---in order to keep themselves off the unemployment line, they will spend the country into oblivion to please everyone so they can survive the next election cycle. Republicans won seats in Congress with the promise to cut the deficit and what did they deliver today----a negotiated deal with Obama worth $ 900 billion in deficit spending. Bribing the wealthy elite in this country to pretty please provide jobs and in return large sums of money will come your way via income and inheritance tax reductions. I am really surprised to hear McConnell and Boehner not bring up the family farm in this debate, oh I forgot, that only works when they want to generate sympathy for losing the family farm due to the "death tax." When will the middle class quit being simpletons and wise up to the ways of politicians using clever phrases to dupe the middle class in order to reward Wall Street and CEO's. Wall Streets little elves McConnell and Boehner lived up to their promise to their banker and CEO's buddies by shielding their mega bonuses and salaries from fair taxation in exchange for job creation fiction. Aren't these the same guys, motivated by greed moved our manufacturing base offshore? Aren't these the same Wall Street bankers and CEO's who just got bailed out by taxpayers and who are about to receive record bonuses and pay? The ones who created this economic recession we are in and struggling to put behind us, and now, we are going to lessen their tax burden so they can keep more of their ill gotten gains. The middle class deserves what they are getting and will continue to get until we wise up and see the political games being played that favor the wealthy elite and call them out. I am an independent, and used to vote mostly Republican but I am tired of being duped. Give me a third party that is similar to the tea party absent their unofficial spokeswoman Sara Palin.

Wake up people an Estate Tax is not just for the wealthy - how many people have a 401k or IRA. If not modified, in 2011 it would have a $1 million exemption level and a top rate of 55%. Instead, under the proposal, the exemption level would be raised to $5 million and the top rate lowered to 35%.

Retirement of a $1 million is just barely cutting it with medical expense and the length that many are living longer. If you were to die, the government will get 55% of that hard earned money you saved before it is given to your family. Saying this is only for the rich is just not true. 55% even 35% is a large amount.

I would like someone to explain why it's bad to be rich? I'm not rich but would like to be some day. What happened to the American Dream? Why should people who are ambitious and strive to be rich be punished for it? Why does working hard and being rewarded for it such a crime?

Wake up people an Estate Tax is not just for the wealthy

Ha! No doubt. You'd never know that listening to Olbermann's rant on the proposed tax policy. He pretty much suggested that if you didn't die penniless, you were rich.

spg, you are right on.

You guys are so bogus, spouting off like you know something about tax law and hoping nobody calls your BS. IRA's pass to spouses with no estate tax, 401k's can be rolled tax-free to IRA's, and there are so many tax-loophole trust options out there that anyone who can afford an accountant can shelter their retirement accounts for their other heirs without breaking a sweat.

I'm fed up with the "poor old people and small business owners" propaganda, when you know good and well that's not the way it really works. And if you don't know, try sitting in the lobby of any financial planning firm for a day and then you will.

The Credit Shelter Trust

A credit shelter trust is a tool that an individual can utilize to pass assets onto a beneficiary. One of the primary reasons for using this type of trust is so that you can avoid paying capital gains taxes and paying estate taxes. Here are a few examples of how the credit shelter trust works.

Capital Gains Avoidance

One of the biggest benefits that you get by using a credit shelter trust is capital gains tax avoidance. This is accomplished by the fact that you can change the cost basis of financial assets once they go into the trust. For example, let's say that a couple has $5 million worth of stock that they purchased 30 years ago. At that time, they paid only $100,000 for the stock. They decide to put the stock into a credit shelter trust to pass onto their children. Once they put the stock into the trust, the cost basis goes from $100,000 to $5 million. By doing this, they are avoiding paying capital gains taxes on $4,900,000. Then, whenever the assets in the trust get passed onto their beneficiaries, the beneficiaries will not have to pay this large capital gains tax.

Estate Tax Avoidance

With the credit shelter trust, you can also avoid estate taxes. According to estate tax laws, you can pass assets onto your spouse without paying any taxes. However, if you want to pass assets onto your children, an estate tax might apply. For example, if an individual passes on more than $1 million to a beneficiary during 2011, estate taxes will be charged on the $1 million. If you have assets that are more than $1 million, you could potentially be paying a lot of taxes on the money before it gets to your beneficiaries.

With the use of the credit shelter trust, you will not have to worry about any of these taxes. You can put assets into the trust, and when you die, the assets will be transferred to your beneficiaries. The beneficiaries will not have to worry about paying any estate taxes on the assets that they received.

while the repub idiots keep ranting about how the rich are paying 70% tax and that they deserve paying less tax. They simnply ignore to realize that almost 100% of the u.s. soldiers fighting the two stupid republican wars in iraq and afganistan are children of middle classes and the poor. These middle classe and poor americans are sacrificing themselves so that the rich fat cats in this country are safe.

Every one of those soldiers is a mercenary. There is no draft in this country. No one is going out and press ganging poor Americans to be soldiers. It is entirely their choice to fight for pay.

Obama is a joke, his idea that there is 700 billion on the table is utter fiction. The government is not entitled to "revenues" that are not driven by law. The money belongs to the individual that earns the money, not the government until the law is changed. Obama and his administration spent money they didn't have, and now they have added to the deficit. This is totally irresponsible behavior and should not be rewarded.

The part I hate the most is the liberal mentalitiy of , "this is the government's money, we HAVE to get our hands on it no matter what". It's not your money, its ours. Government seriously needs to reign in spending, its been out of control under both parties. At least one party has managed to see that and sounds like they want to do something about it. The other bunch is insane, "full steam ahead, spend, spend, spend". Bankrupt the country...its scary.

In addition, the "death tax" is complete BS!! the only ones that should have any claim to anything should be the one's so designated in a will, and I've never heard of "Uncle Sam" being named as trustee in anyone's last will and testament.

Lastly, congessman "Weiner", name is so approapriate...you ^&%$*# POS

Raising taxes on the rich doesn't hurt jobs whatsoever. It only affects people listed as S-Corp. The only people using SCrops are sole proprietorships. If you're S-Corp and have non-1099 employees, then you're an idiot and deserve to go out of business.

Fact is, the richest in the US paid 90% tax. Our debt is currently $13.5 Trillion. We need to raise taxes to 1979 levels on all income brackets, not just the rich. For any old enough to remember, the last time we had significant inflation was under Carter. Just wait and see what 15-30% inflation does to your income.

People supporting the tax cuts know NOTHING about monetary policy.

spider-737231

You're right FLYNAVY, we all need to share the load. Presently, however, the wealthiest 10% of Americans are paying 70% of all income taxes, so it looks like it's actually time for the other 90% of us to ante up. Don't like to hear that, huh?

NO, I don't like to hear that. Let's look at the facts shall we?

You would agree that the Federal Government wastes money? That the only thing they can do is spend money since they don't "make" money (like a business)? Do you also agree with Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans that our government is aware of $150 BILLION worth of fraud and abuse in Medicare ALONE? If this is true and they ALL are saying it is, then WHY should ANY American pay more in taxes? Why should any of us pay more to fund more government growth in corruption and wasteful spending?

I say cut government SIZE in half and require by law Congress must have a balanced budget EVERY YEAR like many States do. Then let's talk about further tax cuts in the future once we pay down the deficit with the money being wasted by our government. You see, there is much less room for wasteful spending when you cut back on your budget. But all we hear from the Democrats is they need more money, not, we need to cut back.

Here's the kicker. The mega rich will simply move their assets overseas once the tax rates climb too high, or to put it another way, once America places too much burden on them to live here. So, once you had some revenue from them, now you have NOTHING.

Some Democratic governed States have chased the rich (big businesses) out of their States. The Democrats in our Federal Government are acting no different, just impacts ALL of us on a larger scale.

DUDE,

Hell yes man!!! Good post

Very Well Said, Dude! You are so right!!!

DUDE-875416

But all we hear from the Democrats is they need more money, not, we need to cut back.

…as if the Republicans are thriftier. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is that the Dems openly spend money. The Reps spend money and then point the fingers at the Democrats. Kind of like little kids do.

Here's the kicker. The mega rich will simply move their assets overseas once the tax rates climb too high,

This is can be easily stopped. Take away the loopholes. The problem is that most of the Republicans (and some Democrats) will not bite the hand that feeds them. These loopholes were created and are supported by the same people that borrowed money from China at a high interest rate to pay for the tax cuts for the rich.

once America places too much burden on them to live here

It's not about where they "live." It's about were they have a PO Box. They live here. They run their companies here. They take advantage of everything this country has to offer. They just don't pay anything for that privilege.

You seem intelligent, yet, your post is very naïve. The big business IS the government. The big business decides what laws, loopholes, shelters, etc. to be passed to benefit them further. It is done with campaign donations - the support goes to the highest bidder.

This is the first time in a long time that a president is actually trying to pass something for the people. But it’s him against the army of rich, spoiled, greedy, unappreciative old men (mostly) that feel that they are giving up some of the power they got used to love and enjoy. And with money comes lots of power.

If Obama was a Republican president simply extending Bush taxes, there would be no opposition, no crying about overspending, no finger pointing from the right. It would have been a discussion over a coffee and couple of pictures for the media.

I don’t claim that the Democrats are fiscally responsible, but I do claim that the Republicans are fiscal hypocrites.

Dude, you da man! I mean, a real American patriot. What state do you live in? 'Cause, you know, since you don't want to the government to spend (requiring you to pay taxes) I'm sure you don't want your state taking all that tax money for roads, police, Medicare, teachers, firefighters, Homeland Security, water quality assessment, food inspections, wastewater treatment, infrastructure, airports, ports, dikes, housing, mental health, student loans, parks, and so on. Oh, and make sure your health clinics stop sending samples to the CDC - that's tax money, too.

We'll be happy to deduct your state's portion off the deficit - just tell us where you are so we can get rolling.

I think Obama's decision was a wise one for 2 reasons; 1. Shown the American people that he is willing to work with the GOP. 2. Send a message to the GOP that he is willing to work with them.

Whether you agree/disagree, and I'm sure that depends on your party affiliation, this deal is a win/win for both parties...The rich keep their tax breaks and those unemployed Americans get a 13-month extension on the benefits. Not too shabby for people who've already receive benefits for 2 years..

My concern is who will be paying for this and based on this, who is willing to accept and pass and other legislation which will cost the American taxpayer more money, specifically The Dream Act.

Despite your views on the wealthy, this passage will basically help all Americans. Getting consumed over the rich will not help you get more money in your pockets to help pay the bills. Just be thankful, especially those currently unemployed, that a deal was made.

Seems the Right is more willing to work with the President to get our economy moving than the left is. Does this surprise anyone? Heck they had to make deals with in their own party to pass major legislation while they held all the cards!

ctdad,
also he is realistic about what is coming...2 years of Republican roadblock.

bayllie...exactly...It's too bad those on the left are too short sighted to see this.

I had rather see the tax cuts expire rather than extend the unemployment another 13 months....so now those lazy don't want to work bums can get benefits for over 3 years....that is absolutely absurd.

I actually think I'm on the dems side on this,

Frank...I hear you, but keep in mind that come January, we will have a REP controlled Congress...A deal needed to be made and although its not perfect, its a deal based on compromise.

Americans are very fickle with the short-term criticism for Obama's deal with the REPs eventually subsiding, however, the bargaining chip the president has just gained will provide longer term benefits by reducing the chances of a continued gridlock in Congress for the remaining term of his presidency

Cudos to the President for this very strategic deal.

ctdad,
I think because the ones on the left are sick of rolling over. And I agree but I am also realistic.

I think looking at the president's track of giving in, one might say that he too easy. But until we sit in that Oval Office and listen to his conversations, we will never know what he is actually giving up or gaining. We can just speculate.

Very good post Dude.

bayllie...I don't know what to say to get you to see common sense. For one, it isn't a tax cut to the rich. That would indicate that people that make over $250,000 will pay less in taxes in 2011 than they would in 2010. Not the case.

Also, any extension of the current tax rate does not add to the deficit. If the government spends more than it takes in, that adds to the deficit.

I can't defend republican spending going back long term, but what I've seen in the last year and hopefully going forward is that they are getting it. Obama obviously is NOT getting it. His policies and programs are adding costs without funding....extension of unemployment - unfunded....obamacare - unfunded....the recent school lunch program - unfunded....cash for clunkers - unfunded....bailout for teachers unions - unfunded....ARRA - unfunded, etc, etc...

If he wants to spend 4.5 billion to upgrade 20 million after school snacks to full meals, (at a cost of $225 per meal)....ok, justify it and find the money from some other program that isn't working. Do not continue just adding costs without reducing them elsewhere.

Joe-755363,

Bush borrowe more money than 42 presidents combined!!!!!

debt today (under Obama)= 13.8 trillion dollars

When "W" left office on January 20, 2009, the national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08.

Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt).

Interest from Bush Cut Tax loan from China - another $250 billion ANNUALLY (plus the principal).

We had to borrow money from another country to finance the tax cuts - now we pay big interest on it. I guess you feel that you do not owe interest to the bank on your mortgage and you do not think the interest ADDS to your debt every single day.

bayllie

This is can be easily stopped. Take away the loopholes. The problem is that most of the Republicans (and some Democrats) will not bite the hand that feeds them.

bayllie, bite the hand that feeds them? THEY ARE THE RICH OR THE HAND YOU TALK ABOUT! LOL

bayllie

Are you democrats ever going to quit with the blame Bush and the Bush-did-it-so-it's-ok-if Obama-does-too arguments? Where in my post did you see that I supported Bush's policies?

Once again, and I don't know how much simpler I can say it so you may be able to understand....you do not need to take loans to fund a tax cut...you just have to spend less.

Where are you coming up with these numbers to twist anyway? Look, the total annual tax income went down by approximately $300 billion a year when the tax cuts were enacted. Where are you coming up with $250 billion a year in interest? Did we borrow money at a 83% interest rate?

Are you democrats ever going to quit with the blame Bush..

No. Never.

Have ya ever found that Kenyan birth certificate yet?

"Obama administration warned fellow Democrats on Wednesday that if they defeat the big tax-cut compromise detested by many liberals, they could jolt the nation back into recession."

The recession stopped? Didn't unemployment just increase to 9.8%?

Keep selling it fools...maybe someone will buy it someday....Summer of recovery!!!

Spike-2046177

Have ya ever found that Kenyan birth certificate yet?

LOL, Possibly.. all depends on what Wikileaks shares.

Joe-755363,

I know that to you guys stating stats and facts is something ambiguous but in order to show the net contribution of Obama’s to the debt, you must shot the beginning balance (Bush) and ending balance (Obama). If that to you is blaming Bush than I apologize. I did not realize that writing about Bush’s “accomplishments” was not allowed.

I can't defend republican spending going back long term, but what I've seen in the last year and hopefully going forward is that they are getting it

Where do you see that? In their "Pledge to America" that does not include any proposed solutions to the impending fiscal crisis because it includes about 40 photos of Republican representatives?

Please show me where do you see evidence that the Republicans get ?

Once again, and I don't know how much simpler I can say it so you may be able to understand....you do not need to take loans to fund a tax cut...you just have to spend less.

I will spell this out to you. Ask for a paycut at work (tax cuts) and then continue paying your already overflalted bills. If we do not have to borrow money to pay for tax cuts, then why did Bush do it? He didn’t get your memo explaining it? And if tax cuts don’t add to the deficit, why didn’t Bush simply make them permanent?Ohhh, that’s right, because it would be illegal unless HE PAID FOR THEM? How do you pay for something when you have less income coming in (tax cuts)? BORROW BORROW BORROW like your hero W and Dick did. And, no, I am not blaming Bush for anything just because I wrote down that he borrowed. It's called stating a fact (look it up in the dictonary).

DUDE,

bayllie, bite the hand that feeds them? THEY ARE THE RICH OR THE HAND YOU TALK ABOUT! LOL

Are you serious? When someone pays for your elections, you (the elected official) do not turn away from them (the rich that gave you money). You (the elected)do not bite the hand (of the Big Business) that feeds you.

Yes, the most Congressman are rich where they did and will benefit handsomly from Bush tax cuts so it is in their best interest to continue them but I was talking about the big money and the big business that really influence the politicians that they paid for.

401k's can be rolled tax-free to IRA's, and there are so many tax-loophole trust options out there that anyone who can afford an accountant can shelter their retirement accounts for their other heirs without breaking a sweat.

As it should be! That's THEIR MONEY - not the Government's! Plus that money has already been taxed (with the exception of the 401k). I am a strong opposer of any estate or 401k tax. It's hard to save enough to retire in this country. It's even harder if Uncle Sam tries to steal it from you. People shouldn't have to work until they're 90.

TKS,very good post.Your right on.Couldn't have said it better.

My husband has been laid off three times in the last year and half. He's 68, and the prospects for finding another job are bleak. But our retirement nest egg, though intact, earns nothing. We sit here and watch the Fed try to boost inflation. OMG. Yet we agree. Obama should've stood his ground and let unemployment expire rather than cave in to the Republicans--not yet in power in the legislature. If the conservatives had really been responsible for throwing millions off unemployment payments, it would've immediately come back to hit them in the face. Extensions would've been passed after the uproar. And remember, unemployed people don't care about a two-percent vacations from Social Security or a lower tax rate--they don't have any earned income!

Obama has the backbone of a wet noodle. Buyer's remorse, here.

Agreed, excellent post.

What are the odds all of those first time voters from 2008 come out in 2012 if the Dems sell out like this?

If President Obama had addressed the nation and said we all need to buckle down and let these tax cuts expire I think a lot of us would have been very impressed. I hope he know’s what he’s doing...

RIGHT ON!!!!

Sherrie:

Why is your nest egg earning nothing? Mine is earning 7%.

There is one point we are not taking into consideration.

Every thing put for a vote on Obama's promises, fail. The reason? Although the Senate has the majority of Democrats, there are a few Democrats who are constantly voting with the Republicans.

Just look up the Senate voting record and you will see just what Democratic Senators have voted against us.

The problem isn't so much the President not fulfilling his campaign promises but members of the Democratic party are continuing to throw the President and us under the bus.

Guess we voted in imposter Democrats.

Becky - what's up with the 'obamacare rammed down our throats' lines. You have written it twice even though this thread isn't about health care reform. But, since you brought it up - the comparison is really misguided. First, this wasn't rammed down anyone's throats. Democrats wanted to protect the middle class, Republicans, as usual, wanted to protect the wealthy. The Dems tried to pass a bill that extended tax cuts for the middle class only; but they didn't have the votes. So they had to give in to what the Republicans wanted and coddle the wealthy.

How on earth was that like 'Obamacare'? For the record 'obamacare' wasn't rammed down anyone's throats. Healthcare reform is one of the policies Obama ran on, and it was expected. Stop watching Fox news, who, along with Beck and Limbaugh on the radio, were the only people trying to make people think that h/c reform was 'rammed down' anyone's throats, with their disengenuous "55% are against the h/c reform bill" statistic at every turn. What they didn't tell you was that 15% of that 55% opposed it because it didn't include a public option. Heaven forbid rightwing pundits give you the full picture. So stop it with the 'rammed' line.

Becky-2120568:

What a load of CRAP. Cap-and-Trade did not affect employment hiring in the slightest, not did Health Care Reform (which is virtually the exact same bill the GOP tried to introduce about 4 years ago). Greed has kept companies from hiring. Not only that, but GREED has been the determining factor for those same companies to lay off thousands of more workers before the end of the year for their tax breaks and bonuses.

Drink some more of that GOP/Faux News Kool-aid...

I agree this is a great post TKS, you are so right.

If Obama had stood his ground the next two years would have brought congressional grid lock worse than the perceived problems of the last two years. If the deal spawns real cooperation between red and blue, then it will be well worth the investment. Had this not been set to expire at the end of the month, then something different might have happened.

Wow - Thanks for the positive feedback...

I will say that despite my anger I want to reinterate my support for Obama. The truth is, it was the democratic congress that failed, not Obama.

On inauguration day, as I stood their freezing to watch him take the oath of office, I remember him saying, "it's not going to be easy or fast" and "I can't do it alone". He is right, and the Democrats in congress left him swinging in the wind on almost every point of his agenda so far...

I'm not sure if Obama is really smart or he's simply a dreamer. striking deals with repubs is like preaching the new testament to cold blooded snakes. he certainly displays the same qualities the various peace-maker leaders do - Ganghi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Mandella. under a more sane environment, obama's approach to the repubs could have been fruitful. However, repuiblicans in the past decade have gone completely insane! They're completely void of conscience. nothing of reason and logic will work with them. They simply can not be trusted. look at John McCain! he's a freaking pendulum! his inept mind keeps swinging back and forth and totally void of logic or conscience! I thought he was a man of integrity before gwbush's era. but look what he has become! the thing is, McCain may be losing his mind, but he's still not half as evil as the other repubs in the houses. how can anyone in their right mind trust people like these?

The republicans, will pay the price, we elected them on their capign promise to stop Obama's programs and cut sspending Already they are ignoring us.

Thw tax breasl should have been allowed to expire for everyone.

I have just finished e- mailing my republican senators and rep, reminding them, we took a lot of republican incumbents out of office during the primaries this year, we can do it again, in 2012 if they start this playing with Obama crap again..

We are able now to keep track of who voted and how they voted.

We are keeping track, we will remmber and we aren't going anywhere.

Quit acting like RINOS and DEm lites or start looking for work.

tks engineer; Obama failed because he joined the Washington crowd, he was elected by the middle class to carry Thur on change in Washington, get out of the wars, and a public option in health care, he failed on all three, the presidency is not a training exercise, he was just not up to the job!

For all those who say that the 2% of high earners deserve to keep their money. How did they make that money? From the work of others. From others buying their products. Without which they would have no money. From the investment of 50% of American workers investing in the stock market. Yet, small investors 401K's suffered since they had to keep their money in the market, instead of sheltering it like the 2%. This is one reason that dismantling SS is out, in order to invest in the market for "higher returns."

For those advocating the dissolution of the Bush tax cuts. I agree. The Congress should pass a law that freezes spending for the next two years. If Pres. Obama cannot get tax cuts for 98% of Americans then he should direct his party to enshrine in law any revenues collected over the frozen expenditures should pay down federal debt. Pass it quickly through reconciliation, and spend the next two years managing federal departments to make them more efficient.

Many would say, "what about jobs?" Clearly, as many have stated before the federal government does not create jobs just the environment where job creation can occur. Tax cuts have never paid for themselves. The gulf between rich and poor has grown ever wider even during this recession. If you starve industry for money it will find a way to make it. Hopefully, industry will have to make more products and enter into more markets, at lower prices, by having excess goods being made by more workers in order for "job creators" to make money.

It's time to stand and deliver Democrats, not whimper and recede.

Shame on the Republicans for pulling this cheap stunt.

It's called bipartisanship and meeting in the middle. For the first time in 2 years, the system is working. There are people who feel what the Democrats wanted to do was wrong so the right made compromises too. The world doesn't revolve around you and your ideas.

This administration has so far divided America at a racial level (false racism claims & race baiting), party membership level (Sometimes NO is the correct answer and name calling just drove away undecided & independant voters in November), and now, at a class level (OMG evil fat cats & greedy people making more $$ than me only paying 90% of the taxes!). I'm sick of the intolerant viewpoints and bickering. Obama is trying to do the right thing finally and reach across the aisle and the left is going balistic because it's not 100% what they want.

No, Allen, the left is going ballistic because it's 10% of what they want and completely against the platform the GOP rode to victory in the house on...

Regarding some of your other points...

This administration has so far divided America at a racial level (false racism claims & race baiting) - That is not true and completely overblown. If you want to talk about race baiting, blame the 24-hour news cycle for elevating the senseless.

at a class level (OMG evil fat cats & greedy people making more $$ than me only paying 90% of the taxes!). The "fat cats" don't pay 90% of the tax revenue at all. And, when one percent of the poplulation controls over 25% of the wealth, we have a problem. especially when the next top two percent control 50%. that's right, the bottom 97% of america pay get's by on half of what the top 2% has. I think the rich could stand another 5% in federal taxes - The rich using their money to buy GOP politians and convince them to hold START and the unemployed hostage is the very definition of class warfare...

I'm sick of the intolerant viewpoints and bickering. Obama is trying to do the right thing finally and reach across the aisle and the left is going balistic because it's not 100% what they want. - I hope this compromise works for him/the dems. Hopefully, we'll get START, UI extension, repeal of DADT after this. Maybe it will be worth it if all the Dem legistlation sitting around gets passed after this logjam is taken care of...

And with regard to Saxon - I don't think is Obama is a failure on all levels, he can't do it alone and I think in the end, he has been very, very successful legislatively (more legislation than LBJ in his first year, financial reform, health care reform, ARRA... the list goes on). And his success has been in spite of a weak and divided democratic congress... a-holes like Ben Nelson and Joe Leiberman who, like the GOP is doing now, highjack the welfare of the american people and use them as barganing chips.

You can't force Washington to change when there are blue-dog democrats, a GOP hell-bent on ensuring that the first black president is a 1-term president rather than involving themselves in the legislative process... Obama never promised a public option so it's unfair to assume that because he isn't GW Bush he's as progressive as you... And the wars - we're essentially out of one - not bad IMHO.

What the hell is he supposed to do? pull out of afghanistan and let the chips fall where they may? The first a-hole to blow up a plane after that and it will be all Obama's fault. Guantanamo - the biggest dissappointment IMHO, is a f**king mess! What would you do though... you have a previous administration who basically kidnapped hundreds of people, took away their rights and tortured them for 8 years... some are terrorists, some will become terrorists, some will live out their days in peace - How can you put them on trial? They are f**ked! and GW Bush should be tried for war crimes for putting the US in the situation where indefinite detention without trial is a reality in the USA... pathetic.

They pretty much controlled the freaking agenda for the last two years. At least in the Senate. Since a majority of 100 suddenly became 60 when this Senate was elected.

TKS, did you like how the health care bill was handled???

you will bending over with that one as well, smile when they say ahhhhh.

I agree that we should not have extended ANY of the Bush Tax cuts, what is good for the rich is good all if we all really care about ending the debt- right?

I am sure by rasing taxes on the rich that they would show us by creating more and more jobs.

TKS,

I think the left is angry because the White House and Senate seem to cave without any fight. The Public Option was polling at 77% at one point yet it was taken out to appease the Republicans who still voted against the Bill, why take it out!

The same with these Tax Bill, the House passes a good bill and the White House's response was overtures to the Republicans. Why didn't they force the House bill and unemployment relief through Reconciliation. Yes it is only ten years but at least they are then on record saving 800 Billion.

Let the Republicans carry the Aristocracy's Baggage!

We just want the Democrats to FIGHT for the American working and Middle Classes, quit caving so easily!

Everyone seems to hate Pelosi yet she has become one of the strongest advocates for the working classes in the modern era!

Obama should not sign any bills till all the ones he negotiated for are on his desk. Republicans cannot be trusted to keep thier end of the bargain.

Great post TKS!! God help us...RIP Middle Class.

TKS,

Agree with you but unfortunately reconciliation couldn't be applied here. The President put it in the right terms today when he used the term "hostage takers" to describe the Republicans. It was blackmail, plain and simple.

Of course, it may not be a done deal yet because the lame duck Democratic House just might not pass this. It takes 218 votes. They may not be there yet.

Sadly, the Democrats in the Senate dropped the ball here by not addressing this before the elections. Had they done so and the Republicans filibustered, who knows, maybe they'd have even changed some votes. They should have brought it up a month or more prior to the elections and kept bringing it up every day until the elections. I'd really like to see the old school filibuster like years ago instead of this lazy man's way of doing it they have now. If Congress had to feel a little pain for their decisions, they might be a little more sensitive to the needs of regular working people.

Who woulda ever thunk it but I hope Nancy Pelosi has more backbone than our President. He just killed his second term. I'm a lifelong Dem but he's lost this vote.

What a load of CRAP. Cap-and-Trade did not affect employment hiring in the slightest, not did Health Care Reform (which is virtually the exact same bill the GOP tried to introduce about 4 years ago). Greed has kept companies from hiring. Not only that, but GREED has been the determining factor for those same companies to lay off thousands of more workers before the end of the year for their tax breaks and bonuses.

Drink some more of that GOP/Faux News Kool-aid...

GREED: the credo of rabid leftist Democrats whose goal in life is to suckle at the teat of government, consuming OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY while never lifting a finger to become productive members of society themselves.

"Faux News": A fixation of delusional leftist Democrats, ie those people demarcated by being obsessed with getting their hands on OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY (*which they haven't earned*).

The answer is simple, some of the democrats have actually heard what the voters said, unlike some of the participants here who continue to keep their heads buried. If you live on a coast you can't hear what the vast majority of the people are saying. It took losing 64 seats for Congress to hear over their own noise.

I believe the repub intent was to find a way to legitimately pay for the unemployment extension. They don't want to leave those folks hanging, but the dems insist on more and MORE defisit spending. If you want to spend, ok...but cut something else, (and there's plenty of cutting that could be done on BS stuff) to cover it. That's what any "responcible" individual would have to do. When I want something, like more parts for a car project, or improvments to my home, I cut spending somewhere else...ECONOMIZE. I make dinner for my girlfriend rather than take her out. Also, I purchase in bulk when the healthy frozen dinners are on sale...there, you got lunches for a month for what it would cost to go OUT for lunch for a week, thats just two examples and I got lots of 'em. Government, particularly LIBERALS, don't understand this concept, especially when its someone else's money. CUT SPENDING!!!

Oh, and before I forget...F pelosi, *&^%ing ding-dong

TKS Engineer...WTF Happened???

It's called compromise and what is sorely missing in modern day politics...The Dems got everything they wanted with the exception of the ending of tax breaks for the weathly..

Let's face it, this is what people are pissed about...Despite all of us continuing to get more money in our money by these tax breaks and unemployed Americans getting a 13month extension on benefits..

So why are you so pissed....I suggest people start focusing on their lives and what they need to do to survive in this economy and drop this hardon you have towards the rich.

The rich will always be rich, deal with it, and go on with your lives.

Seems the Right is more willing to work with the President to get our economy moving than the left is. Does this surprise anyone? Heck they had to make deals with in their own party to pass major legislation while they held all the cards!

DUANE...The president made the deal in order to minimize the risk of a gridlock in congress during the next 2 years of his administration.

In my book they call that compromise. Something the Democratic leaders in the House and Senate have proven themselves incapable of!

Exactly...

If I was a conspiracy theorist, I might be tempted to think all this BS was planned. I believe I heard some Bush people saying exactly that. Hey lets cut taxes with its top loaded benefits to the upper 2% and because we can't pass it in Congress legitimately lets ram it down the Democrats throats, which they did with Darth Cheney casting the "tie breaking" vote. Then because we can't pass it legitimately, they will expire 10 years from now at which time we can blame the Democrats for "raising taxes" during the Republican generated recession. Businesses love recessions and maybe even better depressions. You will take whatever meager pay we offer and you'll like it or else we'll ship more jobs to China. Hell yes the rich deserve to pay a higher tax rate. When they take money at rates thousands of times more than their average worker they leverage their workers and this country. Do you really think that 50M/yr CEO actually works 1667 times harder than the 30K/yr average employee. This is still OK in this country, so why is it a stretch to require you to pay a few % points in taxes. Pay your employees a fairer share of the production or pay higher taxes to help support them, take your pick(or maybe you'd like to tell us to eat cake, remember how that went?). You make money the old fashioned way, you steal it from poor people. Your parents, who paid close to 90% on the farthest reaches of their income, paid it and didn't whine about it. They would be ashamed of you greedy bastards. You lousy robber barons.

if you look at the 10 ten eanrers in Congress eight of them are Dems.

I've seen this pathetic argument before. Of course, the imbecile who wrote it thinks he's a smart fellow. His writing is generally coherent, and seems to be intelligent. The problem is that this is a pointless thing to say, proves nothing, and is typical of the shallow thinking that goes around these days, masquerading as intelligent discourse.

The pertinent point would be: how did they vote on tax issues?

How much they made is immaterial, unless they voted in favor of their own wallets, as opposed to the people at large. Someone who appears to write so well, yet fails at forming a pertinent argument (which apparently no one else bothered to notice), is a danger. They are a danger because of the facade they present, which will convince other shallow thinkers to buy into his false argument.

If I am not mistaken, this same person also used "looser" instead of loser in at least two places. That pretty much sealed the deal for me, as anyone who makes that mistake isn't fit to be making serious commentary anywhere.

Garth....please read ALL the links below. You will find who is REALLY voting to fatten their wallets. Partnering with a foreignor, Soros, and terrorist Wiliam Ayers and other Sachs and Democrats, Obama is desperate to get the Cap and Trade passed...to dupe the American taxpayers and eventually own the world. This scheme is proof how the Democrate got richer off the taxpers. With Obama's help, starting in the nineties, they've taken taxpayer money and funneled it to their "private" carbon trading companies. And....to avoid AMerican taxes, they registered it in the Isle of Man! And you think Haliburton was bad....this is criminal.

Obama, Maurice Strong, Al Gore key players cashing in on Chicago Climate Exchange
http://warofillusions.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/obama-maurice-strong-al-gore-key-players-cashing-in-on-chicago-climate-exchange/

"""Climate Exchange incorporated in the Isle Of Man, a tax haven. So your tax dollars will eventually go off shore where those invested can feast upon their returns. Richard Sandor who is the architect of the Climate Exchange Credit, is also the Father of the Derivative and Future Markets. Did you know he was executive of Drexel Burnham? You remember Drexel Burnham, don't you? How bout Michael Milken, Junk Bond King who went to jail? Does that ring a bell?

Oh, then there's Maurice Strong, illusive Canadian Billionaire, was a Director of Climate Exchange until they removed him from Directorship so we wouldn't find this info out. You see Maurice Strong was a close friend of Kofi Anin, & was involved in Food For Fuel scandal. He moved to communist China. Oooooh!! So great being a billionaire and raping the wallets of average hard working worker. Valerie Jarrett served on board of Joyce Foundation. Could go on & on, no characters left except the ones in this SCAM!""""

Scandal: Obama, Gore, Goldman, Joyce Foundation CCX partners to fleece USA
http://www.examiner.com/orange-county-conservative-in-orlando/scandal-obama-gore-goldman-joyce-foundation-ccx-partners-to-fleece-usa

Take a look at Soros and his funding to fight and change America. And Obama is carrying out his plans,.

GEORGE SOROS

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Open_Society_Institute

As an effort to levelset and establish some expectations....What exactly did the opponents of this deal want to see....??

I'm interested to know...

As an effort to levelset and establish some expectations....What exactly did the opponents of this deal want to see....??

A clean bill. An up or down vote on continuing the current tax levels for all Americans, preferably premanently but temporary would have been ok. Let these other measures pass or fail on their own merits. I have no idea why a bill about taxation becomes an omnibus deal for massive new spending.

I whole heartedly agree with your "need to grow a pair"! We've the right with WELFARE for the rich and the left with WELFARE for the poor. The middle bi.tches about which ever side is crying "WOLF" or subsizing and they are paying for at the time. Unfortunately "WE" voters have steadily elected a bunch of Congressional special interest zealots that can't get along and work together for the good of the PEOPLE!

The "entire" U.S. system needs a rework. A good starting place would be with members of Congress and making the 28th amendment a balanced budget REQUIREMENT!

We on the right have said that he needs to grow a pair since he was elected. However this was the right time to cut a deal. It sets the stage for better cooperation with a hostile house and even senate. Hopefully spending cuts follow soon to minimize the impact of continuing the cuts. Remember they were going to renew the lion's share of these cuts anyway to keep the economy from becoming worse. The extra 700 billion is nothing compared to the 2.3 trillion that would have been voted in anyway. Let's wait until the new congress is seated to see if the republicans are serious in cutting spending and creating private sector jobs. Obama has had 2 years and democrats 4 to get things together. Their policies have failed miserably. Unemployment has been stagnant for 19 of the last 23 months and during the other 4 months it was rising, so there is no support that they were on the right track. The stock market is not a good indicator for economic growth as it can be artificially manipulated and still show growth in a shrinking economy. Jobs are the best indicator of growth, the lower the unemployment numbers the better off we are as a nation and the more vibrant our economy.

I'd hardly call 35% taxes on the rich "welfare". http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

The bottom 50% paying 0% or less (exempt + deductions) are where the welfare comes in. EVERYONE should have to pay a certain % in federal taxes. If anything, I'd prefer they lower that to about the bottom 20% eligible for negative tax returns. I don't feel someone who works their butt off and burns all their free time making $$ owes me a damn thing.

It would go up to 39.6% if it expired. If you happened to make exactly $200K, you'd probably feel that the current $51,117 was a pretty damn big chunk of $$.

Why do you Democrats feel the politicans need so much more $$? Tell them to spend within their means like the rest of us.

We democrats "cannot" cave on Obama, hang in their eventually things will get better and the Repubs still "won't know what do to about it....democrats have got to continue supporting Obama, otherwise repubs win all around...We cannot let that happen over this issue.

What are they (repubs) gonna complain about next? NOTHING

Toyota3, as a Democrat and progressive I don't know this Obama. I was sold a bill of goods when he said he would not extend the Bush tax cuts for those who earn over 250k. And, what is Pres. Obama doing today....extending the Bush tax cuts for those who make over 250k. Next, Pres. Obama tells me that this is temporary, and that he'll make the argument to the American people to get rid of them. Pres. Obama already made that argument and won the presidency on that argument. I ask you what will change between now and '12, that will make, in the minds of the Republicans, the tax cuts for those who make >250k invalid. Absolutely, nothing! Moreover, he now shows that denying him something he wants to sign will make him sign anything.

Next, Pres. Obama started the budget commission, now inadvertently, he gets to start cutting the budget. He'll show that he can control spending and pay down the debt. This will give him some credibility with the moderates. Yes, there might be some suffering, but in the end it will be worth it. The rich won't cut off their nose to spite their face, and close plants and make NO MONEY. Finally, Pres. Obama won't be seen as weak, and worthless like he is today.

Hey, Allen, please read my post regarding Warren Buffet's explanation of your point above. The U.S. has a marginal tax system - NOBODY in this country pays 35% income tax on their taxable income. The first $8375 is taxed at 10%, between $8375 and $34k is taxed at 15%, $34k to $82,400 is taxed at 25%, $82,400 to $171,850 is taxed at 28%, $171,850 to $373,650 is taxed at 33% and only taxable income OVER $373,650 are taxed at 35%.

Throw in all the deductions that high earners get that are denied to us working stiffs, add in the 15% tax rate on capital gains and other UNEARNED income, and factor in payroll taxes that ONLY working people pay up to $106,800 and you have an upper class that's getting away with murder. Add in the 60% of US corporations that pay no tax, and you get real class warfare.

The serfs are getting restless, Allen.

It seems to me that the dems have the same majority that they used to ram through healthcare. This was all just posturing. The Democrats are rich too, and they wanted the tax breaks without angering their base. They will keep printing until the dollar is dead. May be sooner than they think if the rest of the world has anything to say about it. Oil for Yuan?

Allen...pretty simple...you are truely clueless. Your a classic example of the Beck, FOX News sheep. Baaahhhh! Baaaahhhh! Some more proof that Republicans can't read text books. Nuff said. I suggest you take heed to the real truth that RealAmericans wrote above...we are on the cusp of revolution...so tread lightly!

Happy, I've always found it quite interesting who shows up annually on the list of richest Congress members. While both sides have ample rich, the Dem's just seem to be better at whining and gathering public sympathy, feigning they are for the poor :( That can be done pretty well while spending everyone else's hard earned tax dollars.

I'll guarantee that Pelosi, Kerry, Harman, Rockefeller, Warner, Polis, Lautenberger, Feinstein, Grayson, Teague, McCaskill, Landry, etc., are all secretly breathing a big collective sigh of relief.... along with Issa, McCaul, Buchanan, Frelinghuysen, Risch, Miller, Marchant, Corker. 12D vs 8R in the top 20.

Real, It would be quite interesting to add up ALL of those collective "millions" and see exactly what the tax liabilities were last year. I'll also guarantee it doesn't add up to 35%

http://www.rollcall.com/features/Guide-to-Congress_2010/guide/-49892-1.html

Again, we need NEW Congress members, working for the people, and a 28th amendment for a balanced budget to start with......

Gee, Shocked, what exactly is being added to the national debt? Are you talking about the 700 billion that never existed in the governments accounts or are you talking about the irresponsible spending that the democrats embarked on that added to the 700 billion that they knew they didn't have? If you are going to blame someone, at least find the guilty. Think about it...what is the government spending that 700 billion on and who benefits?

Please explain to me how we have me sold some snake oil. As I see it, Unemployed Americans receive an additional 13 months of unemployment benefits and we continue to see our tax breaks.

So what is the real issue here....I know...It's the fact that the rich get the same tax break and solely because of this fact, our country has been screwed...Frankly, that's about the most one-sided and childish argument I've ever heard.

These critics should to get off their lazy asses and stop wasting time pointing the finger of blame towards others for their inability to make a better life for themselves.

As I see it, Unemployed Americans receive an additional 13 months of unemployment benefits

Please do not comment if you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Garth Vader...

Since I don't know anything, as you claim. Please enlighten me on exactly was included within the President's deal...and also let me know what part of it got you, amongst others, so upset...

The bottom line is, if you tax work over investment, you concentrate wealth.

The bottom line is, if you tax work over investment, you concentrate wealth.

How so? How is that the "bottom line"? Please explain further.

The idea that money will “trickle down” from the rich to workers “has not worked the last 10 years.

You might ask, "But don’t low taxes promote investment and job growth?"

No. An ‘S’ corporation [that passes both income and losses on to shareholders, who then report income or losses in their individual tax returns] like my business, whatever isn’t spent to hire people and improve the infrastructure of my company goes to me, the owner, as personal income that I’m paying a lower tax on.

That incentivizes me not to hire people. If the marginal tax rate on the 10-millionth dollar of my income is the same as on my first $1 million, I have no incentive to invest in my company. If I had to pay higher taxes it would be easier to decide I should invest more in my company and make more money.

I happen to own an 'S' corporation myself and do understand from where you are coming, although I see absolutely no problem with me earning as much profit as I can out of the company. This is the dimension on which most businesses optimize. The purpose of taxes is supposed to be to collect money for the operation of the government, not to provide incentives or to penalize behavior. It's too bad that the government has perverted the tax code to do this, to the extent that it has. Any business should be in business to make money and are usually making personell decisions to accomplish this, S-Corp or not. If a person you hire provides enough value to the organization to pay for themselves plus any additional profit to account for the risk of hiring them, a business will generally hire them. They do this in the context of whatever tax and regulatory structure that is imposed on them. Most countries levy a lower tax on corporate profits than on personal income since they want to enourage capital/business formation that create jobs and expand their tax base.

There are close to 3,000 names of multi-millionares and billionares on a petition to reverse the Bush tax cuts on wealthy households. I find it wise to listen to what successful people say.

"Over the last 30 years, we have disproportionately benefited from economic policy. We feel it’s time to rebalance the economy so that it works for everyone — not just the wealthy. Our country is facing unprecedented economic challenges right now: We all need to pay our fair share to resolve these issues and make long overdue investments in education, health, energy and infrastructure." www.fiscalstrength.com

How can so many successful people be so wrong?

"Taxes are the price we pay to be part of a society that can take collective action that benefits everyone.” - Arul Menezes, Principal Architect, Microsoft

“The parameters of this petition support the importance of taxation as a critical tool to maintain our country’s infrastructure and improve the quality of life for the entire spectrum of U.S. citizens, regardless of income level.” -Julie Johnson, Managing Director, Fresh Pond Capital

“It is fundamental to our American values that we have a strong meritocracy which provides equality of opportunity to all Americans. Our current tax structure is regressive and unfairly burdens those in the middle and bottom tiers. Ensuring that everyone has an opportunity to be successful and pursue their dreams means ensuring that each and every American contributes appropriately to the nation’s well-being.” - Todd B. Achilles, Managing Member, Balius Ventures LLC

Spike

Then let all those millionaire-billionaires step up and pay the taxes at the higher rate. There is nothing in the tax laws that would stop a person from paying. Just like Buffett none of them are willing to donate their money. They talk the talk but none of those so called rich people are giving anything extra to this country that they aren't required to do.

Obama made $4.4 mil. do you think he volunteered to pay any extra. How about Kerry and his wife Teresa that made $20 mil last year he even tried to get out of paying the Mass. state luxury taxes by harboring his new yacht in a different state.

Bottom line is they can step up and pay it voluntarily anytime they want but don't hold your breath.

They are all unequivocally wrong at the point where they speak for anyone but themselves and promote a government policy that confiscates money from people they don't know. I didn't elect these morons to represent or speak for me and I reject their narrative out of hand. They should feel free to gift whatever amount of their fortunes they see fit to their beloved government and leave me alone to try to pull enough together to provide a better life for my family.

and don't think I dont know why they have to reach ever lower and lower into the income scale to define more and more people as "rich". It's because they know they will never raise enough for their big government plans without all the money that comes from people who sous otherwise be middle income earners.

John

Absolutely correct. Those on the list should be forced to put up or shut up. There opinion is not wanted nor needed in how much of other people's money should be taken by the government. Until the government learns/is forced to live off a set revenue amount then they will always want more and more.

You're free to think/believe what you will.

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24)

"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 19:24)

Lol, by which all progressives conclude they they are saving us by impoverishing us. You should try reading the bible in an exegesis fashion instead of isagesis sometime. It will help you understand it better.

And Michael, I don't want to force anyone to shut up. They are free to express their opinions just the same as I wish to be. What I don't want is for someone else to project their opinions onto policy directed at me. They are a small group in a sea of people and they speak only for themselves, not for me. As you and I have correctly pointed out, they are also free to gift as much of their wealth as they like to the federal government.

I wish they would, but political horse trading has always been the name of the game: If you really want that prize stallion you gotta take this ol' nag as part o' the deal.

We removed a lot of republicans incumbents during the primaries this year.

They start compromising with Obama, we will remove a lot more, in 2012, if they start this compromisin crap, with Obama.

In this technological age there is no reason why they shouldn't be doing things separately.

All eligible voters should be able to opt in to updates on upcoming issues and where their representatives stand. For instance:

1) New bill proposed - representative posts the bill along with his interpretation and how he feels about it. All members get an instant email alert and can sign in to their account and read the bill and select how they would like the vote to go.
2) News stations alert the public of the bill so those without internet can head to a friends house or the library to sign in and participate.
3) Representative gets a tally of how his constituents feel and votes
4) The way they voted is automatically send to the members with red flags if they voted against the majority

Also, voter accounts could be set up with keywords on key issues to flag the bills. If you're for/against new spending, for/against foreign spending, for/against tax increases, etc, your account will flag sections of the bill in green or red that you should read first.

This could all be done from start to finish in like 24 hours with the process starting over each time the bill is amended.

Obama correctly characterized the Republicans as hostage takers, but then he made a deal with them. You don't make deals with hostage takers, or terrorists. What NEEDED to happen is for the voters to see what they got when they voted Republican. If the Republicans maintained keeping hostages, the voters could start to see the light and start calling their congressman - or dump them at the next election. The Republicans said nothing would happen until they got their tax cuts for the rich - no tax cuts for the first $200,000 for everyone, which should be a separate vote, and no ratification of the START nuclear treaty, until they got their tax cuts. You can't cave to hostage and stay free. Obama caved, which will keep the voters from seeing what they voted for.

"It's tempting not to negotiate with hostage takers — unless the hostage gets hung. (Obama's own words)

I've been posting comments saying exactly what you have. These are separate matters, and there should be a separate vote. Hostage taking should not be accommodated. Instead, let the voters see the true colors of the Republicans.

Start making politicians vote on key matters separately

Just2reason, they said that they would not vote on anything in the senate until the tax cuts were handled and they found a way to finance the government. Those in the senate wanted all of the tax cuts to go thru. I don't understand why you folks think that there was a tax cut any way. think about it, the tax rates that are in affect now have been in affect for the last 10 years. We would not of seen any kind of tax cuts just a tax increase. I rather the businesses keep the same tax rates so that employment stays the same rather than folks having to be laid off because more taxes had to be payed. Instead of taxes going up, congress needs to spend less. I think that the US needs to stop giving money to other countries. We need to worry about our country. Why give money to other countries to fix their gov't buildings and churches? I also think that they need to cut gov't jobs and look at the pay scale of gov't employees. Remember when it was found out that the military was spending hundreds of dollars for toilet seats? Gov't waste is abundant and it needs to be stopped. I think that they should look at how much is coming in and budget for that. Our country has a smaller work force at this time so that means less money is coming in. Another point I would like to make is about the 13 month extension on the unemployment benefits. This means beyond the 99 weeks that the people are getting for being unemployed, they are going to be getting an additional 53 weeks. So, if you loose your job, you can get 152 weeks of unemployment by claiming that you can't find work. What are we going to do once that expires? Extend it more? Make people get off their butts and work? What are we going to do? when I lost my job, I found one making way less than I was. I looked while I was working and finally found one where I was making close to the same. I had to move to get it but I did. Just because there is no work in the area that you live means you only look in that area. shop around. You can apply for jobs on the net and even look on the net to find a job. These folks are going to be on the gov't dime which means our dime for 3 years with out even trying to find a job and I just don't get it. Is this unemployment benefits or welfare. If it is welfare just call it by that name and be done with it. The only people that are going to work are those that want to. If I could sit at home and collect a check for three years, I might not want to get off my butt and work.

I voted Republican to stop the radical leftist Democrat steamroller. I want the Republicans to block EVERYTHING the greedy thieving Democrats are trying to do. Shut down government if necessary, but STOP THE GREEDY ENVIOUS THIEVING DEMOCRATS.

Just make sure to refuse your Medicare and Social Security checks every month, okay JohnCarter? Don't drive on my roads, either, call my firefighters when your house burns, use my police to investigate the break-ins that are gonna happen when you leave people to starve in the streets, or buy drugs that I've paid the FDA to check for safety. Don't drink your tap water - I paid for testing that, too, or eat food from the grocery store (same). Don't flush your toilet - it goes to the wastewater treatment plant I paid to build and operate.

I'm sure you don't have kids to put in public schools (or you probably wouldn't be such a self-centered, greedy SOB), but don't complain when hordes of them are roaming around your neighborhood because all the teachers have been furloughed. Your bridge fell down? Too bad - better find a way to build a new one. There's job training programs in welding out there - oops, can't do that - they're mostly government-funded, too. Don't turn on your power - it comes through lines I paid to build. Get off the internet - it was both developed and is now delivered through government sponsorship. Don't use the phone - we did that, too.

Good luck to you, JohnCarter. And let us know how it is living in the middle ages again. Just don't send a postcard - has to go through the Postal Service, ya know.

Ron in Colorado...Why don't we just end taxes altogether and provide free food and beer for every American...

I can tell you don't balance your own checkbook.

I don't receive a Medicare or SS check every month, and I would be delighted to turn those pittances down when I hit 65 if the thieving government would refund all of the SS money they have confiscated from me over the last 43 years (with interest). I didn't agree to be robbed. I don't want to rob others. I only want what I earned.

I won't drive on your roads if you don't drive on mine (I've likely paid more in highway use taxes and local property taxes for those roads than you have).

I am a member of my local volunteer fire department. We are local neighbors banding together to solve a local problem without involving Washington, or any other level of government for that matter.

While I have seen the local sheriff, I don't expect him to be able to protect my family or my property. We do that ourselves. Remember that when trouble is seconds away, the police are a couple of hours away. Good for taking reports, maybe, but worthless for protection.

My water comes from my well. My sewage goes into my septic tank and drain field. All paid for out of my pocket. Government tries to get me to buy permits and pay fees, also out of my pocket, but I don't owe them any money because they don't perform any service I want.

My parents paid for me to attend a good Jesuit school, and I've paid for my kids to do the same. (We aren't religious, but the Jesuit schools are simply better.) Not one dollar has been spent by government to educate my family, though government has certainly stolen a large number of dollars from me to finance their liberal social engineering indoctrination facilities.

Your electric power may come from a government owned power plant, but mine comes from a private investor owned power company over privately built and privately owned lines. All paid for ultimately by my power bills. Private persons such as Tesla, Edison, and Westinghouse, and private investors in companies like Georgia Power, Kentucky Utilities, Vectren, American Electric Power, Duke Power, Consolidated Edison, etc, etc, etc are responsible for the bulk of our electric power system, not government bureaucrats.

With respect to the phone system, we can thank another private company for that. The Bell System engineered and built the best phone system in the world despite government interference at virtually every step. When finally Judge Greene broke up the phone company, our telephone system started falling behind the phone systems of the rest of the world. Not Bell's fault. Government's fault for interfering in the best engineered and best run private enterprise on the planet.

While DARPA did put some military research money into Aloha Net (one of several forerunners of the internet), and European nations do finance CERN where Tim Berners-Lee worked when he invented the worldwide web, almost all of the infrastructure and most of the ideas behind the internet and the web are the result of work by people in private industry. The government has done little, except get in the way.

Great Post, John Carter!!! You are very wise, and most on this thread cannot conceive the words "personal responsibility" or "earning your keep".

Hey RealAmericansFirst, what tax rates did you use to file under last year, the "cut" rates passed under the Bush presidency in 2001, or the Clinton rates? How much extra did you gift to your beloved government over and above your minimum amount due? Did you take any deductions? Just curious....

You are very wise, and most on this thread cannot conceive the words "personal responsibility" or "earning your keep".

You abuse of the English language must end.

I hope everyone realizes the enormous mistake made when we gave the Republicans control of the Congress.

Although the Democrats still "have the majority" turns out not to mean a thing. The Republicans keep winning in the Senate to block the Democrats plans is because of the Democrats who slither over to the Republicans to stick it to us.

Just check out the individual voting record of all the Senators and the true S@@@ Bas@@@@@ will float to the top.

The President shouldn't be portrayed as a failure. Some Democrats should be called out for being against the American people, cowering in the corner and kissing the Republican a@@es.

Republicans suck big time. However, Democrats who sell us out are even lower that the Republicans. I want to know how every Senator votes from this point going forward. We have a right to see how our elected representatives are fulfilling their pledge to each of us.

You just got your fanny handed to you, spouting exactly the same drivel.

Carry on, there may not be an elected dem in office in 2012.

No. You just lost your credibility for 2012 and well beyond. You gave up your cherished principles just so you could win this one. You compromised, when you said you wouldn't. You voted for spending without a way to pay for it when you said you wouldn't. You will have to give up much more to pay for this bit of showmanship.

All they care about is the very rich

Really? Who told you that? That's ALL "they" care about? How rediculous.

Are Americans so blind not to realize this?

Hopefully most of them don't think so stereotypically of entire groups. That's what causes bigotry and racism.

Hey you posters up there!!! Where you been???? Repubs are not the ones sucking up to the rich anymore. Take a good look at what the media covers up!!!

Below are links to top contributors to the 2008 campaign. You can see who BIG BUSINESS really preferred....Who's pocket is Big Business REALLY in!!

OBAMA
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=n00009638
McCain
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?id=N00006424&cycle2=2008&goButt2.x=10&goButt2.y=8
And...the wealthiest in Congress are now the DEMOCRATS.

And the filthy wealthy billionaires are all in Obama's Cap and Trade Club...called the Chicago Climate Exchange. George Soros, the foreign Hungarian billionaire is in Obama's pocket...or rather Obama is his follower.

The American economy has a puppet master. Obama does not really care what happens right now, because all the money that went to the banks was used for their NWO scheme. It was planned since the early 90's.

There is a lot more to this government's agenda than you realize. AND...OBAMA was in this extortion scheme from the beginning in the 90's. Goldman Sachs are his buddies. It is the democrats that are involved heavily in this. BTW, Maurice Strong is living in China.....

""""""Obama and greenhouse gas syndicate in violation of RICO laws?

Al Capone couldn't even dream of a racket this big. The new Chicago "syndicate" , Barack Obama, Al Gore, Richard Sandor and Hank Paulson, orchestrated the greatest racket of all time.

This new syndicate, the Greenhouse Gas Syndicate, have engaged in fraud, extortion, bribery and Acts affecting a personal financial interest, four of the violations included in the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO). Only two of these violations, committed in a ten year period, are required to prove a RICO offense.

First, a brief clarification

A fraud is an intentional deception perpetrated for profit or personal gain. An example of this would be the claim that "man-made" carbon emissions are the leading cause of the greenhouse effect, when in actuality the most abundant "greenhouse gas" (ghg) is water vapor, representing up to 95% of ghg. The carbon emissions fraud is perpetrated in order to sell carbon offsets or credits.

Extortion is the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority (coercion). A current president, a former vice-president and several prominant businessmen, through trickery and political pressure are forcing businesses, and the public as a whole, to act involuntarily through laws and regulations governing carbon-emissions as related to global warming."""""""""

Yes, Hank Paulson, Gore, Obama and the democrats have been duping the public with global warming and skewed data to advance their own financial agenda. They used their political clout to sway "green" agenda that will make them trillionaires, They should be charged under the Rico Act.

Obama and greenhouse gas syndicate in violation of RICO laws?
http://www.examiner.com/trumbull-county-conservative-in-youngstown/obama-and-greenhouse-gas-syndicate-violation-of-rico-laws
http://www.meetup.com/WeSurroundThemGathering/messages/boards/thread/9013974/post/35347149/?hash=35347149
Obama, Gore, tied to Chicago carbon exchange!!!
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/obama-gore-tied-to-chicago-carbon-exchange/blog-97725/

That is pure bull manure. There was no tax cut!!!!! This has been the tax rate for the last 10 years. All it would of been was a tax increase for everyone. If congress would only spend with the money they have we wouldn't be in this mess. Why give money to other countries when we don't have it? Why spend money we don't have. would you like to increase taxes in this economy? More people would be out of work. If I owned a business and I would have to start paying for the new health care bill and a increase in tax, I would be letting people go. Remember, the taxes for the new health care take effect Jan. 1. So, besides that tax increase you would like another major one with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts? That would just be asking for the economy to flop beyond what it already has.

Carla They tried to move it to a million and Republicans refused. a 700 billion increase in the deficit is irresponsible with or without unemployment. The tax decrease instituted by Republicans were mnnt to expire in January but Republicans unwilling to put Billionaires back to their normal tax level. Vote GOP and get more of the same. Republicans put in tax cuts and made sure they stayed in.

it's true the republicans balked at a 1 million dollar cap. isn't it amazing how greedy people are. Obama your lack of fortitude is telling. I voted for you and loved it...now might have to reconsider. Stop playing ball with people who don't want to play fair. You should have let them expire and when the crap hit the fan pin it on the bad guy, instead they are goign to be using the new increase in deficiet they created as at talking point for years to come.

During a rare Saturday session on Dec. 4, the Senate failed to pass two Democratic initiatives to make permanent—for the middle-class only— the Bush-era tax cuts contained in the 2001 EGTRRA and 2003 JGTRRA. The stage is set, however, for a compromise that will most likely extend the Bush-era tax cuts "temporarily" for everyone.

An amendment offered by Senate Finance Committee Chair Max Baucus (D-MT) to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for everyone except those with incomes above $250,000 (joint filers) or $200,000 (single filers) was defeated by a vote of 53-36. Also defeated by a vote of 53-37 was an amendment offered by Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) to extend the Bush-era tax cuts for everyone except those with incomes above $1 million.

The Republicans aren't even in office and they're already spending money we don't have. It looks like Sarah might get that bridge if this is an indication of things to come.

JOKER---------- It is no wonder you libs have no credibility.

The republicans did nothing, Obama could have removed those tax breaks at anytime in the last two years.

You folks are just not very smart.

yeah? He tried to remove them now and the republicans didn't let him. He should have just let them expire and allowed the republicans to reap the benefits of their vote to NOT extend UE benefits. republicans = Greedy it doesn't matter how you look at it that just IS the truth.

John, are you serious? The Republicans did nothing? They pouted and stomped their feet like a spoiled 3 year old because their rich buddies aka "supporters" weren't getting the tax cut continued that the President wanted for the middle class. The middle class who is getting smaller and smaller by the day and whose spending is what drives this nation. In case you don't believe it there is another story about how lending has increased to the sub-prime market which is now about 63% of Americans. So, I apologize for not having sympathy for these folks with millions of dollars who obviously don't need the extra income that these tax breaks provide.

Or they pay no taxes. All it takes is buying a mailbox in the Caymen Islands.

Alkatma,

Who is to blame for this? How about our friends on the Ways and Means Committee? Instead of complaining about these supposed tax cuts for the rich, how about we eliminate these umbrellas that supporters of BOTH sides of the aisle use to avoid taxes. These so called American businesses have their headquarters in the Cayman Islands, among other places and pay literally no taxes. I am of the opinion that all of these tax cuts could be permanent if we made American companies, who turn a profit in this country, pay the same percantage of taxes that small businesses are forced to pay.

the top 2% get tax breaks that are made available through the tax code our government has set up. so when the fed tax for the top earners is 35% they may only really pay 30% because of breaks. they are still paying substantially more than all the others combined. it's a ridiculous statement that this comprimise only benefits the rich. the 50% of the fed income tax pool they supply supports all the programs that benefit the lower income earners.

So why are they (Republicans) fighting so hard. They are or were still going to get a tax cut, but because it might not be what they are use to getting, its a problem. So why do the middleclass and the lower income have to constantly forced to saricfice? They(wealthy) have, being getting and still want, AGain I ASK "WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH"? They (wealthy) will still be billionaires and millionaries if they did not get the tax cuts and they will help the country by not adding their tax breaks to the defict. I guess that does not matter, just saying. GREED, JUST GREED PLAIN AND SIMPLE. You might not agree, but thats your right.

alric, that 2% pay ten times more in taxes than you or I. It isn't about rich vs poor, it is about where job creation originates. I repeat, how many of us ever got a job from a poor man. It is called "capitalism", and is the single greatest enabler for job creation the world has ever known. One man's greed, is another man's job creator.

It's really simple. The tax plan put forth by the Democrats allowed for everyone to keep the Bush tax rate for everyone up to $250,000. Only those above this amount would pay at the tax rate before Bush's Tax cuts. The Republicans kept harping on taking away the tax cuts for the upper 2% in this country. Didn't mention that they still received the same tax break at the same rate as 98% of the rest of this country. To acknowledge that the Presidents plan did not take away from the wealthy would have required the Republicans to vote in favor of the President.

We all know that this will never happen because the Republicans top issue for this country is not to produce jobs, bring down the deficit, provide any form of Health Care, etc. The only thing on the Republican agenda is to make the President fail and vote for Republicans in 2012.

Now, are we going to be stupid enough to believe their crap come the next election? We are going to suffer dearly over the next 2 years because of the Republican BS some actually believed. And, come 2012, we had better root out the so called Democrats who are throwing the American people under the bus.

If we don't watch out for ourselves and make informed and educated decisions, we will be screwing ourselves.

Dasvet,

The most recent figures regarding these tax cuts that I can remember seeing is that they are costing the country about $240B a year with the breakdown as follows: $60B in cuts for the wealthy and $180B in cuts for the less fortunate.

You are correct in your assertation that, individually, the wealthy pay ten times more in taxes, but wrong in your assesment that they carry the lions share of the tax burden.

I say that ALL the cuts should have been allowed to expire. Personally, my share of these cuts works out to about $22 a paycheck ($11 a week, in case you can't do the math right). This amount does me absolutely no good, what-so-ever. If I can afford to do without my tax cut, I can guarantee you the wealthy can afford to do without theirs, even more so.

Dasvet writes: 'the 2% pay ten times the taxes...how many of us ever got a job from a poor man'.

What kind of world are we living in when the wealthy have convinced the unwashed masses to support them so wholeheartedly? My husband and I own a small business. We bring home around $250k a year, and pay around 30% in state/fed taxes, totaling around $50k. Grant it, we are at the bottom end of the 2%, but it is a stretch to say we pay ten times the taxes that the average median income of $32k does in a year. It's probably more like 5x. Do you think we should pay less than our share? By your logic, we should pay a lower percentage, so you wouldn't have the ability to say we pay 5X as much. And, for those on the higher end of the 2%...they make around 100x as much as the $32k median income. If they are only paying 10x as much in taxes, well, we have a problem.

Bottom line, however is this - the 'you never got a job from a poor man' line doesn't work here. The Bush tax cuts were intended to create jobs. They didn't . They did not work. Period. They just created a bigger deficit. They don't make sense. Trickle down doesn't work. Last quarter, American corporations posted record gains. The recession is over from a corporate standpoint. But guess what? Because of the good old fashioned capitalism you championed in your post - the number one focus of Americans is to make money. So, in an effort to make more money, these successful corporations are hiring - but they aren't hiring Americans. Any middle class job that doesn't require a live body is being outsourced to India. The Democrats had a bill on the floor to take tax credits away from Corporations who send US jobs overseas - but the Republicans filibustered it. So, when you say 'you never get a job from a poor man, I suppose you must think that the best jobs are mowing lawns for the wealthy, or working the counter at Tiffany. Because our middle class is shrinking and it is republican policy we have to thank for it. Yes, you just keep supporting the republicans, and see how many 'jobs' it gets you. Fool.

Gemini0617 - Well Written!!! Thank you!

Gemini, great post! I was composing a response for Dasvet, but yours says what I wanted to and is far better than mine!

too much wow I guess the GOP's agenda of making sure that the lower and middle classes education is not quite up to par is working! What kind of math gives you the idea that the upper 10% of the USA's richest people pay more in taxes than the rest of us put together. The upper 10% make earn about 1.8 trillion dollars per year which accounts for about 18.1% of the earnings reported to the IRS making the total earned income of people in the US about 9.9 trillion dollars. meaning that the middle class and working poor contribute 7.95 trillion dollars to that annual income. Since when is 35% of 1.8 trillion dollars 10 times more than 35% of 7.95 trillion dollars? Watch something besides Fox News and actually do the math!!

thanks G and fielden!

We should also end the Earned Income Tax Credit. People who work should not still receive this form of welfare. Let them learn to become more responsible with their earnings and quit expecting others to pay for them.

bethcat - You can only end the Earned Income Credit when wages at the bottom catch up to the cost of living. They can't get any EIC if they make over $40k and have 2 kids (and the credit at that income level would only be around $10 - EIC starts phasing out at income levels over $16k). Most EIC money goes to families that are already poverty-level - is that where you're going to balance the budget?

Real wages for people in that income bracket have fallen steadily since 2000 - back to where they were in 1964. Unless you want to find a way to make American corporations cough up some of that $2 trillion in profits they've banked over the last few years, we either have to pay for a supplement out of taxes or let more and more working people slip into poverty every year.

For the period 1979-2000, married-couple families with children increased their hours worked by 16 percent, or almost 500 annual hours. Yet the data also demonstrate that without the increase in women’s work, middle-quintile families would have experienced an average real income increase of only 5 percent — instead of the actual 24 percent — while families in the bottom two quintiles would have experienced a decrease in real income over that period — by about 14 percent for the bottom quintile and about 5 percent for the second quintile.

These data reveal that the economic engine for middle- and lower-income advancement is in low gear.

Remarkably, this is true even when productivity has grown at a healthy clip. These trends represent a departure from those of the post-War years when median family income doubled — tracking productivity growth. Today, middle- and lower-income families no longer see increasing returns to their hours worked in the same way that the previous generation did. The only way many of these families can keep their total income growing — or not shrinking — is to work harder and harder. For the complete document, please see the attached PDF version.

Attachments

• Running Faster to Stay in Place (PDF, 15 pp.)

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/01/vicious-cycle-stagnant-wages

Increased productivity in America used to mean a better standard of living for workers. Today, it just means record corporate profits (mostly untaxed) and more $$$ fo the top 2%. If you just want to look for scapegoats, by all means focus on the EIC. If you want to solve this country's real problems, get your head out of the slop bucket you're feeding the poor and look around.

The price of seemingly everything is increasing, but wages aren’t keeping up. After inflation, weekly wages were 0.3% lower in June 2008 than they were in March 2001. But the price of food is up 25% over the same period, transportation by 36%, fuels and utilities by 53%, and college tuition—the key to the middle class—by 68%. As Harvard law professor and economic security expert Elizabeth Warren recently stated, “there have never been since the Depression so many families standing right on the edge.”

And these are the WORKING people. Considering how many are unemployed, the standard of living for most people in the U.S. has taken a nose-dive since 2000. MOST that is, but not the 2% who just beat another 4.6% tax cut out of the rest of us.

THANKS, GOP!!

Households in the top 1% experienced the by far greatest increases in household income. According to economist Janet Yellen "the growth [in real income] was heavily concentrated at the very tip of the top, that is, the top 1 percent." A 2006 analysis of IRS income data by economists Emmanuel Saez at the University of California, Berkeley and Thomas Piketty at the Paris School of Economics showed that the share of income held by the top 1% was as large in 2005 as in 1928. The data revealed that reported income increased by 9% in 2005, with the mean for the top 1% increasing by 14% and that for the bottom 90% dropping slightly by 0.6%.

They're thinking that there are two different parties....Its really just two sides of the same corporate coin.

People vote Republican because they don't need a handout from the Government.

LOL

Brent writes "People vote Republican because they don't need a handout from the government". What a silly line. Actually, there are three camps that tend to vote republican. 1) the great unwashed who have been told that supporting wealthy people will allow for money to trickle down to them - even though it has been proven this doesn't actually happen; 2) social conservatives that don't know a lick about fiscal policy - they just know that republicans are anti-choice and anti-gay and like it; and, 3) wealthy corporate elite, who know that republican policy will coddle them.

Social welfare programs, supported by Democrats, cost 10 TIMES LESS than the corporate welfare, supported by Republicans. Ending corporate welfare - or at least curbing it - would result in billions of dollars shaved from the deficit. As it stands, we have been curbing social welfare programs, and republicans would like to see them end (even though they don't want corporate welfare touched). But sadly, cutting social welfare leads to more crime, suffering children, illness and death. You have been had, Brent.

So, anyone that quotes the government figures for the amount of taxes paid by the highest producers, has a hygeine problem? I give you credit for not mentioning the fact that no one has ever gotten a job from a poor man. Hundreds of billions are spent on welfare/education for illegal aliens alone, each year. For the whole time of the Iran/Afghanistan war period, as much money has been spent on just the illegals as has been spent on the wars. I guess you must be the "Great WASHED", since you don't understand capitalism? I am sorry for those who have no idea about economics, and why this country is./was the envy of the world. Then came the socialists of the Obama's administration who went on world tours touting the great governments of Africa and the middle east. I don't hate the producers of this nation, but I do envy what those producers have accomplished for the good of all of us. Class warfare seems to be the only thing the liberals have, in their arsenal. The problem isn't taxes, it is spending that is/has been out of control for decades. Raising taxes accomplishes, deficitwise, nothing without a corresponding cut in spending.

The term, 'great unwashed' isn't speaking to hygiene. It is a term kind of like 'hoi polloi' or the 'rank and file' but the term most commonly refers to these groups as being a little ignorant of the nuances of fact; of the way things are. I find it ironic that I'm explaining this.

Anyhow, you clearly didn't even read my post, because you keep beating the 'won't get a job from a poor man' and anti-social welfare drum all the while ignoring the fact that 1) the tax cuts did not create jobs; and corporations, who are not even affected by the taxes referred to in this bill and are the ones at liberty to do the actual hiring, are posting record profits and are still not hiring American workers because Republicans insist on giving them tax breaks for hiring workers in India and China, 2) the US spends 10xs the money on corporate welfare than they do on social welfare, but yet you are obsessing on a bunch of mexicans instead of where the real waste of money is - corporate welfare (you know, for those corporations posting record profits), and 3) if that social welfare/safety net weren't in place we'd have kids dying of disease and desperate people with guns going out and killing to take what they need to survive. Social welfare is the price we pay for living in a civilized society. You don't like that we pay taxes for a social safety net? Then go live in a 3rd world country because that's what it looks like.

Class warfare is the only thing in our arsenal? Get your head out of the sand. This is why I used the term great unwashed. Look at the numbers. Our middle class is going away. 66% of the income growth in the past 10 years went to the top 1% of the country. In 1950, the ratio of a CEOs income vs. the average worker was 30 to 1. Today it is 400 to 1. Today, more than 40% of American jobs are in the 'Service' industry. Saying this doesn't make me anti capitalism or a socialist or whatever "name" you want to call it. Name calling is the red herring of the republican party. They seem to think that if they scare their electorate - many of whom are yes, the unwashed masses - with labels like "socialist" "communist" "marxist" or whatever, they will not take the time to look at the actual legislation they put forth and vote based on fear. Don't you find it curious that Republican legislation never benefits the 'little guy'? Never benefits the working class? Every time the Democrats fight for the middle class, the Republicans find some scary name to call it and get their base to vote against their best interests. Try not calling it a name. Try just looking at the numbers; thinking about it. The middle class is indeed shrinking. The republicans have succeeded in getting the middle class to vote against their best interest, and then come on here and defend the wealthy to boot! It's a crazy world.

Finally, he/she wasn't quoting government taxes. He was claiming that the wealthiest 2% pay 10x the taxes the avg. person does. My point was - if the someone in the top 2% makes 10x what the avg. person does, then he/she should pay 10x the taxes. If he/she makes 50x the amount of money, he/she should pay 50x the taxes. I was pointing out it was a stupid argument, because it was.

By your reckoning, the richest should be required to pay forty dollars for a two dollar loaf of bread, because they can? Be very careful of trying to kill the goose that lays the golden egg, he can and will be able to leave. The fact that the producers of other societies have migrated to the US for generations is a testament to the need for low taxes. Creating jobs by cutting taxes benefits ALL of us, the poor get the most benefit by having a job. I am well aware of it not being a hygeine problem, and you did mean it as a slur.

then, by your reckoning, because I make $250k a year I should be paying a lower percent of taxes! Egad, man, think! Why should I pay a lower percent of taxes because I make more?!? And again, you need to separate corporate and personal taxes. The bill we are talking about is re: personal taxes; they have nothing to do with a company's ability or inability to hire, unless you are talking about my ability to hire service workers to do jobs around the house.

There is no killing a goose that laid a golden egg. The goose doesn't exist. As you stated, this is a capitalist society. If the corporations were geese with eggs of gold, they'd be hiring American workers. But they aren't. Again, US corporations are making record profits. The 'geese' are doing more than fine. Yet they are giving the golden eggs to India.

People didn't immigrate to our country for the low taxes! They came here for lack of caste systems; for freedom of religion. The sad thing is, the caste system is on its way back, because the republicans are doing away with the middle class, and at our current rate in around 100 years there will be the wealthy and the lower class who serve them. But you just keep supporting the legislation that is causing this. You keep beating the 'cutting taxes creates jobs' drum but the proof is in the pudding! Taxes were cut! They didn't work! Eliminating the Bush tax cuts would take us back to the rates they were under Clinton, some of the most prosperous years we've seen in recent history. But heck, don't let real facts get in the way of your blind emotion.

The Clinton era was forced on Clinton by a republican house and senate. I seem to recall that the unemployment rate was around six percent when the dems took over the house and senate in 2007. What is that rate now after four years of dem control? And really that so-called budget surplus was in reality just spending less than they thought was going to be spent. Just smoke and mirrors, since the national debt remained in the trillions, there is no such thing as balancing the budget while still owing trillions. Revenues doubled when Reagan lowered the rates, even as spending skyrocketed. Spending is the problem,, and no amount of raising rates can help if that spending isn't curtailed. Both parties are guilty as hell of overspending.

and what happened to revenues under the bush cuts? people who think that cutting spending alone will fix our problem are as bad as the tax will fix all people. it will take a 3 fold approach.

1. increase taxes possibly to prebush era.

2. cut spending

3 tax reform removing loopholes

any other way is just rhetoric and just playing to their constituents

Its not good for America...they just dont care about anyone but what they want.

btimtru : If you have indeed been unemployed for 99 weeks, it really is time for you to go out and get ANY JOB that you can find. Bag groceries, be a greeter at Walmart, take a temp job that could possibly lead to a permanent one. Employers are less inclined to hire an individual who simply sat around and collected Unemployment for 99 weeks, they look for folks who will do anything to have a job. Good luck finding employment when your resume is three years out of date.

Dear bethcat, alot of companies do not like to hirer older people full time bacause they don't want to pay insurance on you you might kick the bucket

btimtru,

If in fact you are a 99 weeker on the un-employment rolls, then you really need to check the bill as presented, because it does not apply to you. It only applies to the 26 weekers that need the 99 plan you got. I am sorry you have not been able to find a job. Hopefully you will be able find one soon, and not one of the many that refuse to take a paycut or work in a less appealing job

I feal for you. At least at age 63, worst case you could get early social security. I know alot of people in the 55-62 range that do not yet qualify, have ran out ,and cannot find a job (not many companies will hire people of age). good luck on your quest for a job.

We need to get all the Democrats to fight hard for all of us. There are some who are voting with Republicans and dismantle the Democrat majority. They are screwing us, not the President.

We need to hold those Democrats accountable and vote them out. It is clear the Republicans are not the least bit interested in us. Hopefully, there will be viable Democrat candidates come 2012 so we can vote the impostors out.

The "country/government" does not create jobs to any significant degree and those that they do create simply add to the deficit. No time in history has this approach really worked. Jobs are created by those who don't spend everything that they make on current consumption - that is, who save. There is a formula in economics that most of you either don't know or have forgotten. The formula is I=S where investment equals savings. Saved dollars lead to the investment that provides the jobs that every one seems to think that we need. We can increase the demand side all you want but unless there are some who are willing to invest (create capital, companies, jobs) increased demand will simply lead to higher prices. Basic economics 101.

Yes "tax-the-rich" is the answer for everything. Who exactly is seeing a tax cut? This is just not raising taxes in the middle of a temperamental recovery. Raising taxes now would have caused more problems in the economy than the hypothetical increase in revenue would benefit.

The real problem I have is that we now have people on UI for 3 years! Who the heck is going to hire somebody after 3 years on UI. I wouldn't!

Those who say we need to just keep paying for these people, I say this...I have found no one who cannot at least find a low-paying job in a year. After a year, you have become accustomed to whatever your UI benefits are and your lifestyle meets that salary. Therefore, you can continue on UI as long as you want. I am tired of these nipple addicted people who claim I should pay for them to sit on their couch and eat ho-hos.

You want a wake up call Brett....how about there are too many people on this planet and we need less humans so we can enjoy what little resources we have left.

hows that for reality???

stoptheinsanity.....I suggest you start by removing yourself from the population.

Why not just let banks fail so the rich know what its like to be unemployed.

Or better yet....stop giving tax breaks to corporations that exploit wage differentials for short term profit.

Or better yet....raise the tax rates on BILLIONAIRES so we can recoup a couple million dollars from CEO's that have scammed us for the past 20 years.

Or even better...i'm going to respond to your every post.

stoptheinsanity...We found agreement on something, the banks should have been allowed to fail, but that was both Bush and then even more so President Obama. Not only did Obama bail out the banks, but he also than gave the bailed out banks more market share by forcing them to "buy" other failed banks. What motivation do the new super banks have to NOT act irresponsibly? In addition, no one has gone to prison so there is NO personal responsibility. It seems to me that if you knew you were selling junk as A-rated securities, you should go to jail (your company getting fined is NOT a punishment).

Regarding taxes, we should eliminate tax breaks while implementing a lower fixed corporate tax rate. A rate of say 18% would work with a 3% reduction if 80% of your employees are here in the U.S.. This is obviously more complicated but the plan would generate more revenue and incentivize more investment here in the U.S.

The Billionaires tax would do NOTHING. They will just find ways to get around it by not paying themselves. I doubt that Bill Gates even makes that much per year in income, most of his value is on paper. Anyway, a flat tax here is a minimum deduction set at 1.5 times the poverty level would work, while eliminating many of the tax shelters.

Common sense solutions are out there, but the class warfare must stop! It is just a ploy by both parties to win elections.

The Republican agenda this past voting cycle was to dupe the American people into believing they were the only ones who can save America. Obviously they succeeded quite nicely with many voters.

They gave the President about 9 months before calling him a failure and incompetent. He is unable to create jobs, stop the unemployment from continuing, not able to stimulate the economy. The Republicans, therefore, have until September, 2011, to fix it all.

Any thoughts on how this will play out?

It only took me about a month to conclude that the President is incompetent, the Republicans were much more lenient than me.

It only took the Republicans a little over a month to start reneging on their campaign promises.

"No spending unless we can pay for it..." Hah!

They already do. We sold our country to the lowest bidders when the Republicans voted overwhelmingly for NAFTA. NAFTA was proposed in 1979 by Ronald Reagan during his speech to declare his candidacy. He called it "the North American Accord". The details of it were being hammered out through Reagan's two terms, Bush senior's term, and part of Clinton's term when it was officially passed by a Republican dominated vote in Congress in 1994 then signed into law by Bill Clinton. The House of Representatives approved NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by a vote of 234 to 200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. NAFTA passed the Senate 61-38. Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; it went into effect on January 1, 1994.

1/1/94 was when we actually sold out America and corporations sent all our jobs overseas.

cherie...why exactly should we punish success?

Because the rules are set up against the middle class your corporate swine

Corporate swine? Hahaha....I do work for a corporation and they pay me pretty well, some day I would like to start my own business and not have people like you trying to take money from me so that you can sit on your butt and eat ho-hos all day.

Then you're a sell out knowing full well you make your money on the backs of poor Asians who get paid pennies of what you get.

Start your own business then and show the corporations that you're not their tool.

No one is talking about punishment. Paying your fair share is not punishment. The system has WORKED very very well for the top tippy top of rich people and not so much for everyone else. They need to put something back into the system while it's suffering.

This chasm that keeps widening between the top and the bottom is not a healthy place.

Being born rich is not the same as being successful. It's called being lucky - lucky they were born to those parents and into this culture. Jeez. Have you even noticed how skewed our financial picture has become?

Do you know what % of the money the top 2% of our wealthiest citizens control? It's not 2%, I promise you that. It's closer to 50%. Think about it. Those folk are doing great. And we just extended their tax breaks - so they can keep counting their money.

I am a sellout? Hahahaha...please continue to make yourself look like an idiot.

Well Brent, if you define success as large businesses and wealthy individuals gouging the taxpayers with well documented cases of fraud, risky trading & derivatives packaging, then sure they are successful. I define success as reaching alot of profit by creating and satisfying demand while also leaving something better than you found it. That pretty much negates your argument. What will happen to all of that success that you speak of when there is no one to market the products or services to? Like a virus they will move to the next host and suck it dry. Not exactly the analogy I would want to be associated with but if it works for you, feel free. I'd like to at least be able to look at myself in the mirror daily and be able to say that I want to help my country and the citizens of it, not bleed both to death.

Chris...most businesses make money honestly and those who don't should be put in jail, not taxed to death. The tax system should not be used to reward/punish.

BrentAZ... most business men are not part of the top 10%, the GOP would like you to believe that you are helping your small neighborhood businesses by supporting their tax cuts, your not the average small business owner doesn't even come close to the income bracket of people we are talking about.

Sadly even if we do give the tax breaks to just the middle class tax bracket we are talking about the majority of the money the nation needs right now to help get out of this deficit. The tax cuts need to expire and those of us who are working need to pay those taxes so unemployment can be extended, selfishly this is not just based on the idea that we need to help the unfortunate people who have lost their jobs ( we do!) but if all of those people lose their benefits what will happen to this country will be far worse than what you have seen so far! And maybe even you will lose your job then I wonder what you will think of those handouts! Easy to judge when you have not had to walk in those shoes!

I feel fortunate to be in the position of having to pay my taxes it means I am employed. Very well employed thank you very much! I am glad to say it doesn't blind me to the fact that I am a part of much larger picture and it is my civic duty to do my share as it is everyone's including the top 10% who rather spend the money wining and dining and buying off senators votes so they can continue to steal from the average American and live outrageous lifestyles at our expense!

Wake up asking America's wealthiest individuals to pay their FAIR share is not not going to break their banks, it won't even be enough to stop them from buying off the next sell out politician! Besides they will just get another corporate welfare check to replace the small dent in their pocket.

I happen to agree with Brent. I have a small business, and if I could haul it out of the country, I would. The billionaires have turned liberal because of the NWO clubs, and the easiest masses to dupe were the democrats....so are scheming for a dem majority and their joint business ventures of Chicago Climate Exchange/GIM...that they so cleverly registered in the Isle of Man to AVOID AMERICAN TAXES. (yes, GORE). Ayers and Alynski philosophy, as well as unions, have been infiltrated in society, and it has caused the downfall of the work ethic. All the working class are becoming angry and arrogant, unions are bullying, and any business that could feasibly leave has left. It is NOT all because of the "greed" or "money", it is because they cannot take the arrogance and spite of the new breed of "Americans". I don't blame them.

Reality Check, I think you need to get one. I mean if a business is making money how is that stealing from the average American? It is not like the owners are walking around with a gun demanding money. If you make money it is yours not your neighbors. I also don't agree with you about being proud to pay taxes so those don't work get something from it. I think that you should be able to find a job within 2 years even if the job isn't your first choice. Sometimes you have to start at the bottom and work your way back up. I have seen folks that have been laid off going from making close to 6 figures having to work at walmart making just above minimum wage. I think your statement was over the top because you act like if a person is making money they are stealing from someone. A business is there to make money nothing else. the owners of the business or the stockholders expect the business to make money. So, they hire folks to work at that business. They pay a wage to the people and if the business does well, the owners or stockholders get money from the business. Its not like they are out getting slave labor for the business to run. I would also like you to tell me how they are taking from me when it is their money and not mine living the life style they want to live. So, is it your belief that Bill Gates should be giving his money to people less fortunate than him? Why? Bill Gates made his money so it is his and if he wants to live a lavish life style good for him. I don't feel bad that someone is successful. I think that it is great that someone can start from nothing and build themselves up to being millionaires. Why should someone that makes good like that have to give their money up? Most of those that are successful like that do give back to the community. Bill Gates has given hundreds of millions of dollars to charity. So has the talk show Queen herself, Oprah. Bill Gates and Oprah didn't start out rich. They both started corporations and made money. So, should they give up that money? I don't think so. Why should they? They didn't steal from me. In fact, I willingly bought products from Microsoft and Bill Gates didn't hold a gun to me to do it either. I just can't believe Reality check when he said that the rich are stealing from us. That was one stupid F*&CKing statement!!!

From their purchasing power....someone has to pay for the hookers and the bar tabs on Friday nights.

Where do you live? Why can't your husband get a job that pays as much as the UI benefits?

2 years wasn't enough?

Brent, not every state has a decent job market. I'm in FL for example. When I got downsized out of my position earlier this year, I wound up having to work as a consultant to make ends meet. Not all people have the ability to do this. There are a lot of applicants here for each position that comes open. As for lower paying jobs comparable to what one would get with UI, the competition is much tougher if you're an older experienced worker - no one wants you if you're overqualified and likely to jump ship first chance you get. It's a Catch-22.

Night, that is why I asked where nellie lives. There is a limit to how long we can continue paying UI and it is way before 3 years. Somehow, someway people come of the UI rolls at a much higher rate at the end of their allotment, why do you think that is?

I am sympathetic, but only to a point. Would you hire someone who has been on UI for 3 years? All we are doing is creating more people dependent on the government.

Brent, I honestly don't have the answers. We are definitely in uncharted territory here. A couple of years ago I would have said it was impossible for the entire world's economy to crash the way it did. Yes, I would hire someopne who had been unemployed for 3 years if they could demonstrate that they had been consulting, working on a related college degree, performing related volunteer work - something to show that they were serious about keeping/improving their skills during the downtime.

And your answer to millions of people out of work... people with families... is... "the hell with them...?

What jobs? The ones that the Republicans have helped send to foreign countries? The ones that have NOT been created over the past 10 years of the Bush Tax Cuts even though the Republicans claim that extending those cuts will create jobs? The Republicans are heinous liars that care more for themselves and their wealthy friends than the do for our country and it's economic sovency.

For every person screaming here - "get a job" - please go by local library or un-employment office or job-agency. See how many folks are trying it - and trying very hard. And then if you have balls - preach them - to "go-get a job!!" mantra.

Yes there are ones who abuse this system - but most of our fellow citizens are decent folks.

Anyone in these comments who thinks the majority of people aren't looking for jobs or who think jobs are being created are spouting nonsense and just like to hear themselves so they can feel secure in their world. They do absolutely no research, know no facts, and really don't give a rip to make intelligent statements. Tell a lie, Make it big, Tell it often, and they will believe you. Bull we will. The unemployed are from the what you would consider low life to your good friends in high places. Making ones self feel superior by looking down on the unfortunate is like accident rubberneckers who like blood. I would have rather the left didn't cave, but it is for the unfortunate, not you. Please cut these people a break.

That is a bunch of crap- you would rather sit at home and get $300 a week than get out there and work for the same amount of money. I am a single mother of 3 that works 2 jobs and lives within my means- I have never gotten a single thing from the government. No I don't own a home, I rent. I do not have a car payment, I bought a cheap ass $2500 car that gets me from point A to pont B. I do not go on vacations- occasionally I take my kids out to dinner. My oldest goes to a community college that does not take federal student loans- I pay cash and didn't qualify for one friggin grant or scholarship. But I can tell you I am raising good, responsible children who know "there is no free rides". Get over yourself and get a damn job and stop expecting everyone else to take care of you!!

I just received a phone call from a previous employee. You see, since Obama took office, I have lost nearly 50% of my business, and had to lay off 7 employees. Last January I laid off the most recent, and have been trying to keep afloat since then. This employee, although drawing unemployment, has called me on a monthly basis to see if business picked up in case he might get hired back. Although he is doing great just drawing his check, he said he would rather come back to work for me. He said he really liked his job. He signed with a temp agency and has only been placed on a few temporary jobs off and on. Now, I have to give that guy a lot of credit for actually wanting to work instead of sucking off the government. BTW, in my state you don't even have to prove you're looking for a job.

If the busines climate improves, you can bet I will not hire anyone who has ridden out the length of the UI taxpayer benefits. I will give someone a job that has been working recently and has shown a steady work ethic.

RMil,

Wow, you are truly ignorant. You evidently have no idea how lucky you are to be able to keep your head above water by working. You certainly don't demonstrate that you have the faintest idea of what it's like to feel empathy for other human beings - so much so one wonders if you are sociopathic or just get a perverse rush from creating that impression... Please keep your hateful, arrogant garbage to yourself - or at least keep it downwind.

I don't think we should make a deal with Obama, we don't need him.

Let's just sit back and hold tight until january, write a better deal that not only holds tax at thier current level but lowers them for much longer than only two years.

Along with that we could & should dump obama's health care plan as well, the cost is counter productive to growth in the USA and is nothing more than another Poorly run Government handout.

I also won't extend anymore free money to people who can't or won't find a job. Instead, that money should be made avalible to companies who committe to adding these folk's to their payroll.

I remember when people could only collect for 13 weeks, seems like were heading down to path of 13 years.

As long as American corporations keep sitting on those record profits they're rolling in from the hard work of their remaining workers (over $1 trillion last quarter alone, a record), there won't BE any new jobs. That's certainly not the fault of the unemployed, but I don't see one of these "get-a-job" posters pushing to make the black-hole corporations give any of it back.

It's easy to beat those who are down, now isn't it? Much harder to stand up to the bullies.

It's easy to beat those who are down, now isn't it? Much harder to stand up to the bullies.

The bully here is Obama. He's been bullying businesses for two years when recovery should have been happening. It is only when the bully was put in his place last month that there are signs of hiring. You will see construction pick up in about another six months once the drawings hit the ground. Businesses are no longer afraid the president.

Good Posts, Captain and JobSeeker

Good Posts, Captain and JobSeeker

Knock it off wheatfield. Who ya think ya are somekinda moderator?

No one needs your approval and your 20.17 post adds no value.

I really don't understand why people keep voting for the Dems.

Well, if you're like 98% of us, the GOP does nothing but TAKE from us and GIVE to the other 2%.

Well, if you're like 98% of us, the GOP does nothing but TAKE from us and GIVE to the other 2%.

Please describe the mechanism by which something is taken from you. Please be specific and detailed if you can.