Sorry but you are wrong. The military only must certify the procedures to make this happen. The don't get to negate the law. Time to get over, gay and lesbians are now welcome to join the military and serve the country that they love.

snwboxer ''Pentagon officials caution it could be premature, since the bill requires service chiefs to complete implementation plans before lifting the old policy'' did you read the article? Please do not correct me when you obviously did not read the article! ''and certify to lawmakers that it won't damage combat readiness" READ THE ARTICLE!

If that makes you feel better, you you go ahead and believe that won't happen.

I dont give a rats ass if they are gay or not if they can shoot accurately, ruck 30k plus, etc etc. welcome aboard. Those of you that oppose this are the same exact type of people that fought hard against desegregation in the 40s-60s based on concerns for morale, etc etc and look at us now. My unit down here in Miami is made up of a couple of mexicans, cubans, nicas, two asians, handful of blacks and whites and one gay guy and our morale is at an all time high because we are great at what we do and each and every one of us trust each other with our lives.

well said...

Sad to see so many still clinging to such hypocrisy

I say let the military people decide this---Clinton should have never signed it to begin with---funny how his name is missing from every article I have seen here--that aside--if the soldier on the ground is fine with it so am I. I don't believe in discriminating against anyone, but there still is no way marriage is anything but a union between a man and a woman. Gays and lesbians can have a civil union, but it will never be marriage. Sorry.

Man do I miss George Bush.

There will be problems repealing this law. It should have never been changed.

Attention everyone !! CAN EVERYONE PLEASE DELETE THE SPAM BELOW PLEASE? All 4 of them including the dating service crap #1.4 thats up there as well. I think Tyler is currently on vacation for the holidays. THANK YOU!!

First, like every other PC group, gays don't want equality, they want advantage.

Second, the "study" they performed wherein they stated that those in the military were OK with gays was a pure raw propaganda lie, just as the "study" which says Americans are OK with TSA tyranny at airports.

Third, there isn't a single claim that gays can make about it being "natural" that a child molester can't make. I pity them for having such a warped genetic makeup. I don't think they should be beaten, harassed, etc. But I don't think others should be forced to accept it IN THEIR FACE as perfectly natural and normal either. It's not.

Fourth, it will be shoved down the soldiers throat with all of the problems and costs being whitewashed for the sake of political correctness. That's what they did when they let women in the regular army. There are all kinds of problems associated with that, but the average American is oblivious to them.

A soldier gets a lot of things shoved down his throat. It's the nature of the job. But we ought not shove any more than we have to, lest they start to puke. It's just not right to use these brave, self sacrificing men for social experiments.

OK liberal bigots. Start calling me names and using logical fallacies. It would be nice, however, if at least ONE of you would counter with an intelligent argument.

As the libbies jump for joy on these unimportant issues like gays in the military and dumb nuclear treaties that no one really cares about, they are really pissing off the majority of Americans who want jobs!! These libbies are just digging a deeper hole for themselves in 2012.

Alexander the Great was Bi...and ruled the known world.

amerikano,

I could care less about gays in the military. But those that are foolish enough to join and proclaim their gayness will be in some serious trouble. My unit in Desert Storm would not have stood for it. We did not lose a single man though killed hundreds of Iraqi Republican Guard. I suspect some of these gay guys would not have made it home though.

But this is all typical liberal propaganda. Bringing harm to a group of people just to keep them on their side. Same as keeping the blacks in the ghetto surpressed to keep their votes. But never fear, liberalism is dying a painful death aorund the world. Come 2012, it's a non-factor in US politics forever. Yay!

Well done Mr. President.

Yeah and how'd that turn out for him LOL

D_Loominator did you REALLY just equate homosexuality with child molestation? Do I REALLY need to explain to you how different they are? Do I REALLY need to point out that a child is too young for sexual activity (gay or straight) for a whole long list of reasons, while two adults that love each other are an altogether different issue?

Am I REALLY naive enough to think a conservative can be reasoned with?

rightiskind,

You are so wrong as this paves the way for all barriers to fall.With President Obama as President and all of the RINOS giving in to him we will have gay marriage legal in all 50 States before he is out of office. Soon the age to be legally married in this country will be lowered as it is in other countries which also means that the age of consent will be lowered.If you think this wont happen think again as 20 years ago in 1990 there wasn't even DADT you could not be gay in the Military period and no one thought that gay marriage would ever be legal.

Yay Redneck. Was that during or after they were waving their white flags? The Republican guards were giving up to news reporters just the same as they were with you and your unit. Without a fight. If you bigots can't handle working with other Patriots then you do not belong there period. Now the United States Supreme Court can go ahead and finish the cases in front of them and once and for all irradicate these bigot laws for good and let the glbt people finally live equally, without fears or pressures just like everyone else.

RedneckCEO, I'm straight but I'd LOVE to hear your explanation for why a gay man would somehow be at greater risk in combat than I would.

Don't tell me....let me guess....the enemy somehow can sense from 200 yard away that I like boobies and the guy next to me doesn't. And so he shoots at the guy next to me instead of me. Am I close?

@RedneckCEO ~ You SUCK !!!

rightiskind, glad someone else notices the fact that nobody mentions clinton, or if they do, it's in passing, not any criticizm. actually, I blame bush for dadt.

that aside, my son serves and he doesn't care if anyone's gay, nobody really does, it's just a few rednecks and east coast meatheads.

THANK YOU, Mr. President!!!

And the moral well being of this country takes another step backwards.

I have no problem with what you do in your own home.. And I do have some gay friends. I still do not condone it, and I do not think it is natural or right in any way shape or form.. This is not about equal rights, it never has been.

But lets face facts...

The Fact is, Gays could serve in the Military before with DADT.. Anyone saying they couldn't is flat out telling a lie.

The military does not create Individuals. They create a Machine... They break people down and rebuilt them. They are made to follow a rigid command structure, and you are no longer yourself.. you are forever changed through the entire process. You are a cog in the machine.. I have seen it 1st hand through my family who served. They came back from boot camp before they were shiped out, and they were a different person.. They came back from Combat, and very little of the old family members were still there.

IF you think that this ruling will in anyway help ANYONE you are sadly mistaken and need to get out of your Liberal PC world you are living in. The world is not fair. There will always be the haves and the have nots. You cannot legislate equality. because much like control, equality does not exist except in that perfect world in your warped head.

This is bad. Sorry gay people .. you are not like the rest of us. Especially with a gun in your hand. Sure there are few exceptions but why risk our troops. I was totally tollerant for a very long time. We had a gay nanny they was pretty masculine … not too many people knew he was gay. The dude ripped us off and sold my wife's jewelry. He now has HIV now from his partner ... karma wins. He is on the run with his flaming gay partner. Hope they rot in hell. Most gays are pathological liars from years of hiding in the closet.

What a picture of a bunch of losers! You would think they passed something that might create one job or something. This is why the voters kicked out the loser politicians. Only focus is on passing bills to retain votes for dems and zero on the economy!

Great news - now we can get back to the abortion issue (...)

This is a victory of which the Founding Fathers would have approved. The men who started up this country feared beyond anything else, that this country would slip into democracy. They knew that in a democracy, the majority, because human nature is pretty much immutable, would use its power to strip rights from minorities. And even worse, in a democracy, minorities form coalitions to strip rights from majorities.

in hopes som e can pry their lips off Nobama's rump, thanking him for a great landmark, let me be one of the 1st to say, this isnt as important as fixing the economy. something this administration, FAILS TIME AFTER TIME TO WORK ON, but its always the next thing after some bullcrap like this. it isnt a landmark accomplishment. what did HE do? who actually cares? this was just the final step of the bill from the dont ask dont tell, it seems only people who need something to cry about something (it usually nothing as such is this), who see it as great a step as when man 1st landed on the moon. yippe! who gives a flying fart? more wasted time..... more wasted money..... more buisness as usual. if it doest grease the palms, it isnt worth fixing i guess.

LOL at the ignorant bigots spewing hatred...like all the gay Soldiers are now going to spontaneously disrobe and mount the enemy, or each other...LMAO! Seriously; if the doctor who operated on you and saved your life was gay, would it matter...if the police officer who found your missing child was gay, would it matter...if your very best friend, whom you've been able to count on for your entire life was gay, would it matter...if the Soldier who fights in war for your freedom is gay, that shouldn't matter either. This was a long time in coming; how insane is it that people prepared to fight and die for this country had to hide who they are in order to do so.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Care, Never Cared! GOD Bless our Troops, One and All!

@amerikano

I hate the gay lifestyle and everything associated with it. however, there was once a time in this country when blacks could NOT serve along side whites.

I also find it ironic that people would fight and die for rights that they themselves are not entitled to.

I don't like the idea of fags serving in the military but I hate even more the thought of them "marrying" each other....and that day is soon upon us.

MGinRochester - Did you REALLY have that much trouble comprehending the post? Did you REALLY dismiss the obvious truth that easily? Are you REALLY bigoted and desperate enough to assume I am a conservative repug?

I hate to tell you this, but your hatred of child molestation is as culturally based as the old hatred of homosexuality. Child sex was considered a fad in Roman days. There are natural tribes that don't really get upset over a child being fondled or brother and sister doing it in the corner of the grass hut. Should we adopt those practices too? It's evidently natural.

Maybe YOU'RE the one with a closed mind denying reality! Now, do you have an INTELLIGENT argument to counter anything I posted?

Why are we always catering to some degenerate fringe group and trying to make them "equal"? I don't care if a couple of fruitcakes want to "pack the peanut butter" in their own bedroom but they need to stay out of the normal mainstream of the rest of us.

Wrong Chris, the founding fathers were Christians and would have recognised a perversion when they saw one.

America is one sick country! The decline and fall of America is happening before your very eyes, prioritizing and passing this deviates bill to gain votes is just proof - sad!

You can't equate segregation of blacks in the military with gays. Being black isn't a perversion!

@Jon Garrett

What difference would it make to YOU if gays were allowed to marry?

The economy still sputters, the wars still rage, the government still spies without warrants, the private Fed still prints endless fiat money and loans it back to us at interest, but everything's okay because gays can openly serve in the Army. Fabulous!

It will be interesting to see the Department of Defense's legal teams start to create, implement, and conduct training to NCOs, Officers, and Warrants on how to handle such situations. I feel for the newly minted EO NCO who gets tasked to inform someone that while the new policy does approve for anyone to serve, it does not allow or approve for complete openess while on duty on in a co-use facility. Example: I had a Soldier a few years ago dress in drag. Wore women's clothes, heels, a wig, all the time while off duty. Went downtown and dressed as a woman and went to the clubs. I did not approach the issue until the Soldier wore a pair of woman's panties underneath his uniform. Now, how did I know? Apparently the Soldier was squatting down to pick up some equipment and it became pretty clear that those were not the required uniform. So a Soldier saw that and he came to me to let me know. I approached the Soldier in question and asked for his honest answer if he was indeed wearing any items made for a woman. He said yes. So I thanked him for his honesty and sent him back to his barracks room to change into the proper atire. A few weeks later he began to dress in drag around the barracks. He was dressing in drag and his straight room mate was losing it. He was also taking a large amount of estrogen pills. This is where the problem becomes a situation.

Where will the line be established concerning one's behavior? This kid crossed the line and I informed the Soldier that he can not conduct such behavior while in the barracks. Off duty and off post he could conduct whatever floats his boat, but his actions were causing the remaining group of Soldiers to have issues. My biggest fear was that this kid was going to go downtown and met some guy who thinks he is she and then get's killed or beaten up to near death. So I spoke with the 1SG and Company Commander and had to get the JAG Officer involved to ensure we were not over-stepping our authority. When we approached the Soldier and explained the situation he said he wanted to kill himself. So now we had to place a suicide watch and establish personnel to make sure this kid doesn't kill himself. He was taken to the pysch-ward for evaluations and review. He said that he was a man trapped in a woman's body and he would like to serve if he could get a sex change (meaning the government would pay for him to become a woman). At this time, such a request was not possible and in the end this kid was released from active duty based on a honorable discharge for "failure to adapt". Still kept his signing bonus, able to claim for VA benefits, etc.

I wonder how this will turn out if once the new policy kicks in?

I do not know act Michael Jackson was trying to choose not beign black by bleaching his skin.

This is really great news for the straights serving in the military!,now I fully expect to see entire battalions of gay voluteers from San Francisco and New York, giving up their well paying jobs(Gays on average make much more than other workers),enlisting and rushing to the fight in the Middle East, making up for all those years they were denied the right to serve and die for their country in combat,(yes ,this really has nothing to do with political pandering to a portion of the Democratic base, nor a cowardly,devious, coniving way of forcing all the states to ignore the will of the majority and accept Gay marriage, because Gays are now recognized by a large, nationwide, government organization thus all the states must accomodate it's members and their "spouses", no sir! these are patriots! I don't know if the military will be able to absorb all the Gay volunteers!) instead of being forced to stay in the rear, no pun intended,(nah, that's not true),Yes, now the straights who have been having all the fun with the fighting and dying will be forced to stay stateside and take the place of the Gays in those well paying jobs, establishing themselves, and advancing their careers, while working on repopulating the country,(which is really needed and frankly the Gay community has been of little or no help in doing),Yes, I can't wait to see that happen.Congratulations Gay People!,Have Fun.

This is just a formality since the Secretary of Defense and Joint Chiefs of Staff fully support removing the discriminatory policy against homosexuals. It was people like you 60 years ago who decried African-Americans being allowed to serve along whites. They were upset about THAT liberal path America went down! Act2, based upon what do you say that homosexuality is perversion? Your own definition of perversion? You can't just make up negative label then apply it to those whom you deem worthy of its application. This is the Civil Rights movement of this era. We don't tolerate discrimination based upon race, religion, gender, national origin, etc., so why should we tolerate discrimination based upon sexual orientation? Homosexuality is inate and something people are born with and cannot control. It is found in many different species of animals including elephants, chimpanzees, dogs, dolphins, giraffes, penguins and others. It is a part of biology that exists in the natural world. Get over your prejudices and ignorance and join the 21st century!

But it's the economy, stupid. How will this help the unemployed and those facing foreclosure on their homes?

D_Loominator - I am appalled at your defense of pedophilia. Human society has advanced greatly in the past 2,000 years, but apparently you missed the bus.

Your posts display astonishing ignorance and disturbing inclinations.

Having gays serve openly in the military will be no different, in effect, than under the present regimen, or for that matter no diferent than straights serving in the military. Inappropriate sexual behavior with one's fellow soldiers or officers is forbidden now, and the same rules will still apply.

The principal difference is that now a soldier, airman, sailor or Marine can have a picture of his/her partner on a desk or in a wallet, and not fear dismissal. The gay or lesbian service member is not going to be exposed to capricious treatment because someone else dislikes him or her, has a beef with him or her, or is just plain malicious.

The difference is now the affected service members do not have to lie about themselves.

The difference is that now the United Stas of America is keeping to its principles of non-discrimination and equality for all.

Gays and lesbians serve openly in the armed forces of most Western nations, have done so for decades, and there has been no problem with unit cohesiveness or combat efficiency. British commandos and French Foreign Legion personnel are still among the toughest troops in the world, and no one sneers at the seamanship or fighting abilities of the Dutch Navy.

The fact that this matter is controversial at all is a sad comment on American culture and values. Eliminating DADT is a step forward in the humanizing of American civiliation.

unemployed gays may join the armed forces and be taken out of the unemployment lines

great empires have fallen because of this, we are Not immuned..God is Greater than Government as WE will soon find Out...

C'mon: You blame Bush for DADT? I guess that was a funny by you as the policy was initiated under the Clinton administration. You couldn't have been serious.

dloominator - if you really believe that child molestation is the same as consensual adult sex then you are a moron. As long as people respect each others boundaries there should not be any problem with gays and straights working together - they're doing a job. Morals are respecting one another..you obviously have a view of gays that is warped...try joining the 21st century..If you're going to try and use the bible to defend yourself then remember that God's ultimate command is to love one another...try and understand that aside from our sexuality we are human beings.

I found a post of yours from the 1940s and you made the same arguments about blacks in the military. Have you gotten over inter-racial marriage yet? Those were also paths "liberal" America took us down. In fact, what beneficial paths has "conservative" America taken us down? An extra 5 or more years in Vietnam, Iraq II, corporate personhood, unlimited campaign donations by Syrians, North Koreans, and Iranians? Gee, thanks for that.

LOOM,

In your first post you mentioned soldiers getting something shoved down their throat, twice! Exactly what are you transposing here? Ya might want to explore your your inner feelings, hon.

What about jobs?

wow? yay? personally when i was in the US Army, it didnt make 1 diffrence if someone was gay or not. When your in the Service, you dont really care about someones sexuality, unless they were to grope you, and it best be a welcome grope. when i was in the Army, there was 1 lesbian, 1 bi sexual, and 2 gay men i served with. this was back in mid 80's. Before the DADT crap of paper Clintoon signed.

The other people i served next as well, knew or most did, the sexual orientation, because it was all but ran n the McClellan Post news. So as far as it being so hard on the poor people who were supposedly openly hiding in the closet, (lol), i would like to know, how things went from np, to huge problem in a matter of less than starting 2 yrs after i decided the military wasnt going to be my long time carreer?

Here's what i think. i think some of the people who WERE serving, didnt have the mustard they needed to hack it, felt because someone told them to do something, such as "give me 20" for being stupid, they took it personally that maybe they thought a DI was knowing they were gay. This falls into the same same old even on tv or in the movies, when the DI asks where you are from you tell him/ her, and the reply is "steers or queers" come from that place. That is the military, part of training. To get into your head, and train you to over come that, because the enemy, will get to you a lot worse. The enemy, as we do will play on your emotions, get into your head, and have you think what it is they feel like having you think. fear, anxioty, paranoia and so on. some people need to get over themselves and just get with a (any) program that that benifits people in general.

As i said b4, this is no landmark accomplishment..... it's another thing to use to skirt around getting the job done, that was promised 2 yrs ago.

Thanks folks for all of the insinuations, non sequatars, and ad hominen logical falacies. Nothing better than intelligent discussion. Liberals are SOOOO good at that.

First, I didn't justify child molestation. I simply equated it to homoseuality. If this causees you outrage but you cannot counter my argument, then perhaps you ought to re-examine your position. It may be that you are outraged because it is indefensable.

Second, AGAIN, does anyone have any LOGICAL counter to my arguments. Saying that I am a moron and emotional bursts of outrage do NOT qualify as logical argumnet. Someone....anyone.....please counter with something INTELLIGENT.

Jack Bond - Ifound a post of yours from the 1940s and you made the same arguments about blacks in the military. Have you gotten over inter-racial marriage yet? Those were also paths "liberal" America took us down. In fact, what beneficial paths has "conservative" America taken us down?

Our society has changed greatly since the 1940's, but is society really better for it? That is, the people who have gained special status like it better, but what about the common good? Is society as a whole better because of multiculturalism, multiracialism, interracial marriage, gay marriage and now openly gay military members? Is it REALLY better for everyone? Could it be that all of these things only add to greater animosity and hatred between groups in society? Statistics from the FBI's Uniform Crime Report says that it in fact does. Could it be that while our society "progresses", we are actually destroying our country?

Baloney. You have no clue what you are talking about. In the 80's I served many OPENLY gay members. Never an issue. They worked as hard as I did. This will be a Non -Issue

Who's got point? The guy in pink BDUs.

A victory for a whining minority...

Note to Obama and all faggots: thanks for screwing it up for the rest of us.

Does anyone have a problem with someone showering with people they are sexually attracted to? If not, why are there separate showers for men and women? Someone explain why a man can't shower with a woman he is attracted to but a man can shower with a man he is attracted to.

Redneck CEO

I am with you just another step toward Americas demise.

I guess next Swingers and Aadulterers will be fighting for the same rights to be open about their perversion and lack of ability to control themselves.

Then there will be the guys who like sheep and don't want to be discriminated against.

First off, I would like to point out that we are not a Christian nation formed on Christian values. The U.S. Constitution is a secular document; it begins with "We the people" and contains no mention of god or Christianity. Its only references to religion are exclusionary, such as, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" (Art.VI) and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" (First Amendment). The presidential oath of office, the only oath detailed in the Constitution, does not contain the phrase "so help me god" or any requirement to swear on a bible (Art. II, Sec. 1). In 1797, America made a treaty with Tripoli, declaring that "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This reassurance to Islam was written during Washington's presidency, and approved by the Senate under John Adams.

In regards to the Declaration of Independence I always hear people quoting, let me point out this: We are not governed by the Declaration. Its purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," not to set up a religious nation. Its authority was based on the idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," which is contrary to the biblical concept of rule by divine authority. It deals with laws, taxation, representation, war, immigration, and so on, never discussing religion at all. The references to "Nature's god," "Creator," and "divine Providence" in the Declaration do not endorse Christianity. Thomas Jefferson, its author, was a Deist, opposed to orthodox Christianity and the supernatural.

The first colony of English-speaking Europeans was Jamestown, settled in 1607 for trade, not religious freedom. Fewer than half of the 102 Mayflower passengers in 1620 were "pilgrims" seeking religious freedom. The secular United States of America was formed more than a century and a half later. Most of the religious colonial governments excluded and persecuted those of the "wrong" faith. The framers of our Constitution in 1787 wanted no part of religious intolerance and bloodshed, wisely establishing the first government in history to separate church and state. Thomas Jefferson, explaining the phrase "separation of church and state" to the Danbury Baptists when they asked for an explanation of the First Amendment, said "the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions." Personal religious views are just that: personal. Our government has no right to promulgate religion or to interfere with private beliefs.

Some would argue on the concept of majority rule, if the majority of the citizens are Christian, shouldn't we be recognized as a Christian nation. No. America is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. For example, when the majority in certain localities voted to segregate blacks, this was declared illegal. The majority has no right to tyrannize the minority on matters such as race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

In regards to "One nation under god" and "In god we trust" I would like to point out that the words "under god" did not appear in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when Congress, under McCarthyism, inserted them. Likewise, Congress mandated that "In god we trust" appear on all currency only in 1955, and it was absent from paper currency prior to 1957. (It appeared on some coins earlier, as did sundry phrases such as "Mind Your Business.") "In god we trust" was belatedly adopted as our national motto in 1956. The original U.S. motto, chosen by John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, is E Pluribus Unum ("Of Many, One"), celebrating plurality, not theocracy.

American law is not based upon religious law, or the Ten Commandments. The first four commandments are religious edicts having nothing to do with law or ethical behavior. Only three - homicide, theft, and perjury - are relevant to modern American law, and these have existed in cultures long pre-dating Moses and Christianity. If Americans honored the commandment against "coveting," free enterprise and capitalism would collapse, let alone no one would have the drive and necessary push to achieve without coveting thy neighbor’s goods. This doesn't mean steal, this is a human urge to achieve the same amount of success as another. The Supreme Court has ruled that posting the Ten Commandments in public schools or in government buildings is unconstitutional. Our secular laws, based on the human principle of "justice for all," provide protection against crimes, and our civil government enforces them through a secular criminal justice system.

The argument that this nation is a Christian nation is utterly unfounded, many of the founding fathers were either against organized religion, or believed in tolerance of all religions to the exclusion of none, nor especially to the idolizing of one over the others, which is what our Constitution upholds in its protection of minority groups. They left their own countries to be away from the uniformity. So furthermore, to claim that we have to deny homosexuals the same basic rights as heterosexuals based on the religious principles of one religion is completely unfounded, and contrary to what the core values of the Constitution and America are.

Alexander the Great was Bi...and ruled the known world.

Oh and so now that is suppose to make this all OK?

Hopefully this will all work out painlessly.

I do think that gays have just as much right to serve their country as heterosexuals do. If you put on the uniform and protect and serve, then you are deserving of respect and admiration. Your sexual orientation should not matter at all.

There will inevitably be some issues that will need to be looked at very carefully. For one, will gays be barracked separately from heterosexuals, the way men are from women? This is a relevant question if you think about it. Why are men segregated from women? Should the same logic apply in regards to gays and straights? It may seem like there should be a simple answer, but unfortunately that is rarely the case. You have legal issues that must be addressed, the various potential pitfalls to avoid and other things.

There is also the question of what, if any, changes need to be made in the UCMJ. Should the existing rules and regulations be followed just as they are now, or should there be new rules and regs added or changed? These kinds of issues will all have to be addressed.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't even have to be having this discussion, but we don't live in an ideal world. Hopefully it will be a smooth transition.

Bobby,

Your argument is moot. You are comparing someones character to someones sexual orientation. Swingers and adulterers make a conscience choice regarding their behaviour. Gay men and women don't make that choice.

Please, if you wish to respond, find a better argument than "it is a choice". Would you choose a lifestyle that people would commit a hate crime against you, or that you feared for your life, should someone find out? The worst thing that usually comes from stepping out on your partner/wife/husband, is a bad break up. Not even comparable.

Lots of bigotry and hatred here.

Someone being gay does not affect your life. If gay people want to marry that does not affect your life. You can't catch being gay. If you don't like that life style then don't live, but leave them alone.

You say that gay people are the problem, well, go look in the mirror, you are the problem.

Act2 ... you're right, being black isn't a "perversion." But, at one time, it wasn't being "human", either. The point is, attitudes change and we look back on those times with a "what were they thinking" attitude. In 10 years, it'll be the same for DADT.

I am still trying to figure out why we are celebrating sexual deviancy??

And- no- it is not a a stretch from child molester to bestiality to gay/lesbian. All are a conscious choice and all are classified as deviant behavior.

Please do not make the race issue the same as a gay/lesbian issue- they are not. Skin color or nationality are not the same as a behavior.

I am one of many who are tired of the vocal minority forcing the rest of a civilized nation to accept one deviant predilections.

It will stop eventually when the majority wakes up and say enough!

If a straight person befriends you and he or she knows your gay, this does not mean that the straight person has any latent homosexual tendencies or passions. Just because they want to be your friend does not mean they want to be your "lover".

Patchapoo ... I've never read a more condescending post. Gays know how to be friends with straights. Perhaps you should've added a postscript for heterosexuals ... despite your vanity, not every gay finds you attractive enough to want to bed. Most gay men are rather selective about their partners.

By the way, gays can be "just friends" with other gays, too.

In a recent Army Times poll the majority said that having gays in the military won't affect them as they are already in and serving. But the same poll showed that 57% would have a problem with billeting with an openly gay Soldier/Marine. So it will take some adjustments and some time to work through all the issues, but the military will make those adjustments. Probably not to everyone's liking but they will get the job done.

I served in the military from 77-83 (Carter Administration L-O-L!) I was in Korea during peace-time in 79 when we had this one gay guy going after some of the fellows. (Me, for one, which I know does not bode well for me to say the least.) He was ignored, rebuffed, and (tolerated?) until one day...he got the living @!$%# kicked out of him by a fellow who wanted the gay guy to understand that "No! meant no." "Stay away from me, or else." The gay guy did not listen (or believe him?) Whatever, three times that one day, he got the crap kicked out of him. Now I know that most gays are probably not as determined as this fellow but it is kind of important not to press the issue (any issue) too far; whoever you are, whatever you act like, whatever you believe, or however you are created. Don't push things too far!

I want to know how many of you queer supporters actually served in the military. They were ALWAYS allowed to serve, just keep their mouths shut. Now, they don't have to be quiet about it, and can actually flaunt it. Obama never served a day in the military, so he's clueless. I doubt many members of congress served. Catering to a small fringe group for the sake of votes is as lame as it gets. If you're doing a good job, people will vote for you, whether they are special interest groups or not. This thing is not over. Actually it is just the beginning. Let's start adding up the stories of the queers that get beat up during basic or at their duty station. I don't care about some fake survey. They LIED! The military does not want gays serving openly. I have posted numerous times about this issue. I was sexually assaulted by queers numerous times growing up. Only one was a pedophile. The rest were just queers taking advantage of a naive kid. I can almost predict the outcome to this disaster. Suicide, homicide, assault, and a whole bunch of other things we just did not need right now. The military is under enough stress with all these back-to-back rotations, fighting in countries that could care less about us, and now we are wanting to throw queers in the mix. Nothing dumber could be imagined! We had a picture of a Sihk in a blue turban and full beard marching in formation, right behind his drill sergeant. The U.S. soldiers had to have crew cuts and all wore the same uniform, but because of the screwed-up liberal politically correct nonsense, we allow these atrocities to continue. Satanism is a recognized religion in the U.S. military. Look it up. So one could argue that it is within their religious right to wear a goat head in formation! What stupidity. The greatest military in the world is being reduced to a laughing stock! I'm glad I'm retired!

luvmy2boys

Sorry but choosing to have sex with the same sex is a choice and is controllable.

Same as not going to a prostitute or drinking a beer if you have a problem drinking.

The car does not automatically drive into the liquor store no more that two people giving into the twisted lust that is called homosexuality.

westbury64, I agree you. I think you took your point of view further than you had to. It's not just a matter of showering with a person you're attracted to, but merely a person who is of the sex that you have a preference for.

westbury64, I agree. Just as a woman doesn't want strange men in the bathroom checking them out, I don't want strange men in bathrooms checking me out either. Though, nice to know all a perv has to do is dress-up like a woman and hang out in the ladies-room to get their thrills.

If we are going to have separate bathrooms for Men and Woman, then Gays need their own as well.

This is just a back door way to get gay marriages legalized nationally. Once the military is forced to recognize gay marriages the states will be forced to follow.

Pluto and Data,

The Libs never touch this argument because they can't justify the difference between two gays showering together and a man and woman showering together.

Someone being gay does not affect your life

I vote for this being the most stupid comment I have seen this year. If it doesn't affect my life, why does it take a law and billions of taxpayer dollars to enforce?

And tell me, as the parent of a combat medic, that it does not affect my life.

YOU affect my life......you and all your morally decayed faggot friends.

Nancy,

Yes it is, it's time for the bigots to get out of the way of the equal rights train. Of course if you don't like gay marriage you can always move to China, Burma or Iran. They hate equal rights too.

machinehead

Our society has changed greatly since the 1940's, but is society really better for it?

Only someone who enjoys straight white male privilege could ask that. Apparently the civil rights of other people aren't very important in your world.

This will give new meaning to the term "fragged".

Do Not, I say again, Do Not equate Race with sexualbehaviors! There is NO Scientific Way, samesexpartners can reproduce, so no Gene can be carried through! This is NOT genetic and should never be equated to those who have GENETIC differences! Those who teach this lie, that they and others are BORNGAY have nothing but a political group objective and no science to back them up. TRUE Minority Groups should be Outraged at these POSERS!

A reactionary is someone who defines them self not so much by what they are for but rather who or what they are against. These are people whose core beliefs and world view is brittle, superficial and without intellectual merit. They cannot discern obvious propaganda (FOX) from the complexities and sometimes counter intuition of actual truth. They strike out at anyone who is not exactly like them and they fight change and progress at every turn. These people are incapable of critical thinking, introspection, questioning of authority or self. They are the first to tell you they are Christian all the while not acting at all Christian. They confuse "loud - wearing it on your sleeve patriotism" with being a quiet patriot. They consider social justice, charity and love of neighbor a weakness. They play the victim - the injured party all the while attacking those who would do them no harm. They are haters! To all the the homophobes on here I can only say if you met me or one of my friends out here in the real world (no computer screen to hide behind) you would keep your opinions to your self or if so foolish to do otherwise you wouldn't last two minutes before saying "uncle" on the floor. I've know people like you all my life and you're typically cowards and lightweights. Most are by male standards unattractive and have no attraction for me or any other self respecting Gay man - the women are shrill! All in all these people only feel good about themselves, of any value or important when putting other people down. What a sad bunch of yahoos!

Nice to know conservatives are still in favor of individual liberty -- as long as its for people exactly like them.

Dem in Texas-2291575

Nancy,

Yes it is, it's time for the bigots to get out of the way of the equal rights train.

___________________________

I expect to see you and the rest of the gays lined up at your local recruiting station. What!? You cannot serve? Yeah, that is what I thought. You just want to talk a good game. That doesn't win a battle or protect our country from terrorists. Get ready for the draft, and don't forget to thank Barry and Nancy P.

A reactionary is someone who defines them self not so much by what they are for but rather who or what they are against. These are people whose core beliefs and world view is brittle, superficial and without intellectual merit. They cannot discern obvious propaganda (FOX) from the complexities and sometimes counter intuition of actual truth. They strike out at anyone who is not exactly like them and they fight change and progress at every turn. These people are incapable of critical thinking, introspection, questioning of authority or self. They are the first to tell you they are Christian all the while not acting at all Christian. They confuse "loud - wearing it on your sleeve patriotism" with being a quiet patriot. They consider social justice, charity and love of neighbor a weakness. They play the victim - the injured party all the while attacking those who would do them no harm. They are haters! To all the the homophobes on here I can only say if you met me or one of my friends out here in the real world (no computer screen to hide behind) you would keep your opinions to your self or if so foolish to do otherwise you wouldn't last two minutes before saying "uncle" on the floor. I've know people like you all my life and you're typically cowards and lightweights. Most are by male standards unattractive and have no attraction for me or any other self respecting Gay man - the women are shrill! All in all these people only feel good about themselves, of any value or important when putting other people down. What a sad bunch of yahoos!

Didn't the military interview soldiers and give a report to congress on the possible ramifications of this decision? If I recall, the report said that this would not hurt the military or combat readiness.

Tank, we got it the first time; stop repeating yourself, move out of your mother's basement and get a life.

And TJ, you only read the headlines; read the rest of the report.

Westbury,

You're 100% right. retooling facilities IMO is the biggest challenge for this change in direction to take place. You now need Gay and straight facilities. The problem is equity. All of the straight men and women are now at a severe disadvantage because they can't shower etc. with people to whom they are sexually attracted while the gays will, nay must, do so. After all, we can't have individual showers for everyone, now can we? This is going to lead to orgy week on aircraft carriers, I know it. Perhaps orgy months. Think of it, 6 months on a floating love boat sans Captain Stubing. This is not fair to straight people. They have needs too. So to make it fair, we just let everyone bunk and shower where they please. then at least you really only have to have one extra head and shower with a question mark over it. Everyone gay or not sure goes there :-) As for bunks, you need only have single or double occupancy bunks (ok add noise baffles for all of them for privacy).

I haven't even thought about the formal dances yet. I guess at least there will be at least one queen in attendance at all times. Kings will be optional.

Seriously though, there are some really huge issues that go along with this. Even gay people need to realize the complexities. Look, gay people have been screaming about us putting ourselves in their shoes so that we can see their point of view right? Well now it's their turn. ;-)

I am worried as an NCO and career soldier with 8 years till retirment I am hearing very bad things and have discussed these issue with my CO. and will share what I am and have been hearing.

I am a grunt, an airborne, air assualt Ranger tabbed Joe, who is in country and will be here for the forseable future, as I have 2 very good lanuage skills and a good record of service. I am the guy you see slugging it out on the nightly news and the kids who charges in aid of freinds who are pinned down by RPKs, RPGs, 47s, 74s and mortars. I am just one of many but have a duty to bring my troopers home and protect them from the enemy and themselves.

I have been hearing about DADT for quite sometime as my troopers are upset that us frontline line gunfighters i.e (Warfighters) were not included in any questioneir regaurding this issue (DADT). A very small percentage were asked most from what command has indicated where support troops in the rear and not out here everyday getting shot at. I have nothing against the troopers in the rear as they keep us going and are winning hearts and minds in the cities as they move about conducting thier part of our COIN mission.

Should it had not been up to each individual service to deside wether to include openly gay soldier in to thier ranks as differant services have differant missions. For an transition trial to see how things were to play? It make since to me to test the water before jumping in or test the reaction of a minority study group.

Issues I have heard... I have heard for the last 3 days (more infacticly now) and when the issue first came about this week, that some of my best troopers guys that you would go to hell with to pick a fight with Satan himself with and not fear for your life. These guys are the men inwhich they know not what lies around or on top of the next hill but still charge foward as to aid their brothers or move as directed. These men have pointed out in the FOB in the COP back at camp and while on patrol that this is wrong and conflicts with thier personal and moral obligations to the service and indicate that the military may not be the place for them once oders are received and sesitivity training starts. So if I am hearing this at the PLT level then I know what is being said at the Divison and at higher levels. As these soldier usually think the same and have the same value system.

They have all been taught since basic that there is not black, white, mexican, italian, korean etc, etc. Ther is only green as we all used to wear green and there is no I as we are a unit, TM, and you always have a battle buddy. So then why is one groups being singled out to receive special treatment as this is not a religous or ethinc issue it is a individual lifestyle issue and therefor should play no part in the military as we are not indivuals but a Unit.

Now this is very troubeling as I have men talking about this political issue on patrol (THIS IS NOT GOOD) and not focusing on the dangers that surround us at any given time. To be honest I have been in two fire fights in the last few weeks (nothing real bad) while this conversation of DADT was being talked about by soldiers.

I know if my troopers are talking about DADT, I know every other PLT out here is talking about as well. This put my troops in a dangerous situation as they need to be consitrating on what is around them or under them. I have breifed this and we have talked about this problem and the snap of head upon hearing this types of conversation on many occasions during a walk (patrol) the last few weeks. Destractions are dangerous.

Also none of us (despite popular belief) talk of our brag about our hederosexual life (becuase it's badluck some believe) as we do not want to be reminded of the what we are away from and what we could very well loose. Realistically in frontline units nobody outside your unit knows what your home life is like unless you are real close and we are at the fort and they are over at the house for a cook out. So there is very little talk of girls in the COP and none while out on patrol. From what my father has told me this is not like wars past we are a more displined force...IMHO, and nobody carries a picuter of family or loved ones in fear that it will fall into enemy hands and be on youtube So I worry about a falmboriant soldier or soldiers. Who are proud of what has happened to the military and to for the soldier that is ashamed at what has happened to the military as again What a soldier does in the privacy of his home is his or her business and NOT THE ARMY's or any other service branch.

Aonother issues brought up were...... In the near future Gay marriage will be legal (it is only a matter of time) and the military i.e. DOD will have more dependants than they can handel. Meaning the DOD will make cuts to support these dependants support as in housing, college, money, and etc. What will the DOD cut to ensure our military stays 100% and not reduced? Will they build more housing on each installation? will the tax payer be supportive of this as each post is to be a self sifficant community and once the gates are sealed the Post should be able to serve it soldiers without help from the outside. So will there be enough housing? Will the American people suppport a higher DOD budget to support all new dependants and benefiraries? Or will the DOD have to make cuts to needed and new equiptment that is needed to stay ahead of enemies loooking for an oppertunity. As we always need to stay ahead of the rest of the world.

My soldiers and I run into trouble (without reservation) at the first call for help by a pinned down unit, Tm or cry for Medic. We snap to attention no matter how tired we are as an officer passes not rendering a salute (so as he is not made a target by spotters in the hils around us.) but to show respect to the uniform. But recently I have heard these brave men of mine state that they will not respect the uniform of the gay officer or NCO as they feel he or she has tarnished the uniform with polical activism, and instatutionalized "I" instread of us and how we are all one color (green) and forced the PC world back home (A world Away) down our thoats while we again this is not an equal rights issues but a lifestyle issue and the policy that was implace protected more homosexuals and straight soldiers than this repeal will. I fear I will loose many good soldiers and officers who are seasoned as we have fought together for the last 9-10 years. I will loose soldier because the services failed to stand by the soldier moral beliefs and welfare and caved to special interest groups.

How do I retain a soldier who is on eof my best if he feel s that his God would not want him serving next to an openly gay soldier? As many soldier out where we are at are religous and do not see this as an evelution but as a danger and problem because these special interest groups will be paying very close attention to any gay soldiers problems. This fear is that the gay soldier will not go through his or her chain of command but to the media and to the special interest groups.

As the services will be under a microscope as the first out of the closet gays make themselves known. Many Officers and NCOs will have to worry about 2 gay soldiers in one PLT as conflict and terror does and has been proven to bring people closer together? So what will the leadership do upon learning of a relationship?

Will my straight soldiers resent a political action group inqiring to the way these gay soldiers are treated? Will my soldier have to hear about Gay rights this and gay rights that as we typically donot talk politics as it causes more problems. I ask these questions because these are the questions fielded to me by my troopers and I sent thes questions plus more up the chain to my boss.

As we venture into this new military and have our senitivity training and soforth how much resent ment will there be? Will more soldiers who are against this repeal leave, will this provide an oppertunity for straight soldiers to lie and say they were sexualy harased? Will I be held resposible for childish games gone to far and feeling hurt as we are made example of because of politics and special interest groups?

TFor those who say the transition will be easy, they need to spend a few days on the front line and with these kids who have already started to clam up as they fear that passed words to people my ruin their careers and that Soldiers saying, SGT.. If i'm hit I dont want blood, I would rather bleed to death than die of AIDs" as I try and tell them that everyone is checked all the time and our stock of blood is fine. but as an <18 yr old >25 yr old kid from towns people have not heard of I can tell you many are worried and afraid of our generation social experiment. Yet ready to execute any oder that may end their lives before they have had a chance to live them and all the DOD can say is 70% out 400,000 are ok with it so you should be to. I could ask so many more questions I have been asked but I will be called a hater and homophobe as I personally donot care as long as the soldier can perform at the standards our CO puts forth to meet. Gay, Straight, Black , White, Mexican etc. As Long as they wear the uniform they are green and a part of the Team.

But it is an NCOs job to worry and my only goal is to ensure all my troopers come home alive as far reaching as it may sound that is all I truly care about.

It's a done deal. It's going into effect. All the bitching from the naysayers is for naught. It's just the death cries of those who're losing the battle to hang onto the last legal holdout for discrimination, and they're absolutely distraught over it. Guess what, fellas? DOMA will go away next. Then you can finally just go ahead and jump off those cliffs like the mindless little lemmings you are.

We're here. We're queer. And--GASP!--we really are equal. And there isn't @!$%# you can do about it! ;-)

amerikano- what a ridiculous, unintelligent, and stupid post. There are also gays in the Republican party. You truly have no clue, do you? Get over your hatred of everything that is not like you. Gays do no harm to anyone - they just want to live their lives. But, some right-wing nut jobs have to have control over what people think and do. Those days are past. Get over it!

Bobby Charles 1 would you please shut up and stop writing crap? You are such an ignorant bigot, just stay away from gays and you would be fine...or maybe you are afraid to succumb to temptation.

amerikano "This is the path Liberal America is going down."

The path was brought to you by the Republican Party, aka. RINO's. So, this is the path that Conservative American Politicians are allowing America to go, it couldn't have been done without their votes. These are also the same Fiscal Conservatives that rarely pass up a chance to add to the deficit.

L.J. Rhodes

It's a done deal. It's going into effect. All the bitching from the naysayers is for naught. It's just the death cries of those who're losing the battle to hang onto the last legal holdout for discrimination, and they're absolutely distraught over it. Guess what, fellas? DOMA will go away next. Then you can finally just go ahead and jump off those cliffs like the mindless little lemmings you are.

We're here. We're queer. And--GASP!--we really are equal. And there isn't @!$%# you can do about it! ;-)

________________________

Wrong..., gays will be fragged and good soldiers will go to jail for it; the military will be compromising unit integrity and the mission by implementing this.

romilio

Make me ! Putz!

This really sucks for the service people looking to get kicked out early by claiming they are gay. I guess they'll need to resort to drug abuse.

Wakeup,

Any soldier who will harm a fellow solider doesn't just deserve to go to jail; he deserves to be charged with, convicted of and executed for treason. There is no honor or glory in intentionally harming a fellow soldier, and anyone who would do so isn't a "good soldier." You seem to be advocating physical violence against, even murder of gay soldiers. And you say gays are bad? Ha!

I love how this topic so clearly exposes those who are just plain stupid.

Ryan,

Saying you hope someone assassinates the president? Oh. My. God. Are you really that crazy? Though, I'm glad you are. It a) shows how reprehensible people who're against this repeal really are and b) will undoubtedly cause you some headache with the Secret Service come a knockin' at your door.

To everyone else who found his post as disgusting as I did, how's about we ALL take the time to report it to the authorities? The more reports they get, the more likely they'll make a hasty trip to this dip@!$%#'s house to have a little chat with him for calling for the assassination of President Obama. :)

1screaminEagle

I think you've inadvertantly struck the nail on the head with your post. A seperate service for gays. New names for each. Something like Gay-V instead of Navy. You get the idea. Then we don't have to retool anything, just reassign troops and rename a few craft.

This solves everything! Ok we'll still be in s recession, but that's not gonna change overnight.

L.J. Rhodes

Wakeup,

Any soldier who will harm a fellow solider doesn't just deserve to go to jail; he deserves to be charged with, convicted of and executed for treason. There is no honor or glory in intentionally harming a fellow soldier, and anyone who would do so isn't a "good soldier." You seem to be advocating physical violence against, even murder of gay soldiers. And you say gays are bad? Ha!

_______________________________

I'm not advocating it; I stood between my gay soldiers and my other personnel more than once. I'm just stating a fact; gay soldiers will get fragged on the battlefield and there will be adverse consequences. You obviously haven't served and you do not know what you are talking about. How about joining?

@Matt

Hmmmm " In God We Trust" and "One nation under God" reflects that we are a Christian nation, if you don't like it , please leave, we don't need you.

@L.J.Rhodes - the last legal holdout for discrimination? You are joking, yes?

There are hundreds of ways to discriminate legally. Discriminate means to make a choice, exclude, or treat unequally. Try age - a 50-year-old cannot enlist, regardless of race, gender, education, or favorite perversion. Same goes for a long list of health conditions which would be considered handicaps requiring accommodation in the civvy world. For military service, these health/mental conditions are cause for exclusion or denial of re-enlistment. Outside of the military, a person's credit rating and criminal history are very popular reasons for discrimination. It is even legal to discriminate because of residence - live too far away? sorry, cannot apply for this job.

ZipZag

Do Not, I say again, Do Not equate Race with sexualbehaviors!

Same irrational discrimination, same legal issues, same bigots.

You can not expect normal people to lower their standards ....

just because low class perv's can't find the will or good conscience to raise their own standards .

Look at what kind or crap Demoncrats stand for ... it is beyond pathetic.

Americano is correct, and remember-the repeal Does Not give gays a blank check. Respect has to be given, and earned, not simply demanded while they shove thier "rights" down other people's throats. If you Want Respect, you have to earn it, not demand it but not give it back in return, which is most of what i'm seeing from the "celebrate obummer" crowd. I'm certainly not giving unearned ANYthing to Anyone. And the 1st time some slimeball comes up and demands respect to my face that they're not willing to return, they'll get new steel bracelets, with a secure attachment, to wear in public. Equal MEANS Equal, Not "I'm better than you because i'm gay". (or because they're whatever like the "La Raza" crew, demanding free everything "or they'll kill more AZ Cops!") I've got plenty of JHP's JUST for that!

DA DT repeal is part of the steps to restart the draft. It closes the door on people stating they are gay to avoid the draft. The military is desperate for new enlistees as Obama in the white house has caused an exit and deterrent for the future for straights serving. The biggest issue will be health, many military gays are on HIV meds including many officers which are all paid for by the military. The legislation will cause far more problems for the military then it had before da dt. The best thing the straights can do is pretend along till there time is up then return to the civilian world. It should be recognized that any professionalism in the armed services is now gone. Semper FAG

Mailman,

But being gay in no way impairs one's ability to perform his or her duties, and to perform them spectacularly. You're comparing sexual orientation with mental/physical disability. That's like saying people who're black suffer from some kind of mental and/or physical impairment. That's a very loathesome way to think of your fellow human beings.

Wake up2840

gays will be fragged and good soldiers will go to jail for it

The UCMJ has ways of dealing with violent, homicidal bigots, and both the military and society will be better off when such persons are imprisoned or executed. FYI, people who would murder their felloow soldiers would generally be considered bad soldiers.

60 years ago bigots like you made similar dire predictions about fragging, and it didn't happen.

This is why Democrats will continue to try and keep military personnel from voting.

Shreek, you don't know me or what I've fought for; I served 22 years in the military, advocated minority rights, protected my gay soldiers, and promoted equality. After I retired I served at a State agency promoting equal rights and investigating discrimination. I'm just stating a fact; the military is not a place for gays. The consequences of this change will be detrimental to mission readiness, unit cohesion, and will result in fragging.

@L.J.

You seem to be the king of putting words into other peoples mouths...make your own point and quit telling everyone what other people mean, we can read & decide what they are saying without your powerfull insight LOL

A whole platoon prancing towards enemy lines singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow LMAO

Welcome to the Obamanation of America

The Dev,

I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. Read the comments about which I'm posting. They said exactly what I called them out for. One is lamenting the fact that straight soldiers who intentionally harm gay soldiers will get into trouble. Another is calling for the assassination of our president. I mean, my god. Just how evil are you people, exactly? Does your corruption know no bounds?

But, at the end of the day, as I've said, the repeal of DADT is a done deal. It will be implemented, and there isn't @!$%#all you boys can do about it. It's not you who get to sit around smirking at your cleverness in calling us faggots and calling for our bashing or even murder, or even for the murder of the president. It's we who get to sit back and smile as we watch you all foam at the mouths and fall all over each other in your frenzy to throw your little tantrums, knowing you can't do anything about it but cry. You're making fools of yourselves, as you always have, so carry on. We find it absolutely hilarious. Thank you for the free entertainment, actually.

What a load of BS!

I fail to understand where someone's sexual preferance has anything to do with protecting the rights and freedoms of this country? Most of the comments made here by those opposing gay involvement with the military have no clue of what the hell they're talking about.

First of all, not all gay men act like sissies, nor gay women Neandathal men. I've known many gay men in uniform and ALL have prefered to keep thier personal lives personal. It's not about DADT it's about being able to defend the rights and liberties of this great nation without fear of being kicked out or persecuted for the way a person is. It's about dying for the right to choose. Although there are much more important issues "We The People" should be concerned with such as Starving Children, Homelessness, Education, Medical Treatment, etc. Yet once again we're going to waste money on issues that shouldn't even matter! If another guy want's to look at me in the shower BFD;

Hey Joe, Do your job so the people back home can slander your name because you love Johnny and are willing to die for him. The world will never change as long as there are egotistical ignorant idiots like those here who worry about who Johnny is sleeping with instead of what really matters!

This country was founded on indifference,exceptance and the belief that all could survive and live together as one nation fighting for a common goal; that being freedom of choice and religion without fear. The Prime Minister of Austraila said it best: "We have many freedoms and liberties, of which some disagree upon. Remember one of the liberties we have is the right to leave!"

How about becoming part of the solution instead of remaining the problem?

Holy crap Roland, that would make me drop my weapon and run for my life ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOO!

CJ Roach,

Actually, it's all these straight, anti-gay guys who're acting like sissies. They're crying, screaming, and making general asses of themselves as they throw their little prima donna conniptions. Talk about pansies!

Lol

@L.J.

You make my point for me, I never used any derrogatory words or even chose a side to this overblown debate, yet you instantly attack me because you percieve that I may not hold the same twisted views as yourself, again, I implore you, make your own point and quit telling us what everyone is saying, you are not the only one whom can read here, you roll me, rofl.

Actually Roland, they probably would be doing the hustle to "I Will Survive".

I would much rather go down the "liberal path" then going down the 'must start as many "holy wars" hateful god you get no choice because Neo Conservitism is pure ignorance' path. People like you are the exact same as talking with a brick wall. Dumb.

I remember a month ago all your overly conservative, right-wing nuts jobs were saying that this will never pass . . . preaching your "moral" BS. And I was here saying that it will happen. Well . . . *brush my shoulder off*

I TOLD YOU SO

You would think I would be tired of being right ALL THE TIME, but no . . . it's still fun. Plus, anytime a conservative gets angry, it makes me smile. So keep crying, conservatives, your tears taste so good . . . SO GOOD.

For those of you worried about the gays, let me give you a life tip. Any time someone wants to flaunt themselves, whether its a soldier claiming to be gay, or an idiot marine talking about his prostitutes, just shrug it off. If you don't give them a reaction, it takes away the power of the announcement. It's easy . . . try it at home. Imagine a guy saying, "Hey, I'm gay." Now shrug your shoulders and say, "Ok". Now wasn't that easy? Go on, try it again. Good job. Now you don't fail as much . . . you still fail at life, but not as much. Cheers.

Or they would sang Let Us take you to the YMCA

Amen !

Equal Rights !

Thanks to our President !!

PC will be the Death and Destruction of Us All

I guess this means that we will now have coed barracks because that is the logical progression of repealing DADT.

Well, DADT was already found unconstitutional, so its a race between getting implemented by the military, or abrubtly implemented by the federal court system, so the military can't drag their heels very long regardless. Its a dead deal either way. Congress just made it on their terms instead of the courts: but they better hurry up.

The Dev

You make my point for me, I never used any derrogatory words or even chose a side to this overblown debate

Let's see.....you don't support equal treatment under our secular law for all Americans (based on your comment history), and you want your Christian Sharia law imposed on everyone else. You think anyone who doesn't believe in your theocracy should leave the country (#1.106).

How does that not make you a bigot?

Or they can put the gay men with the women, and the gay women with the men!

SpankYoMonkey2

This is bad. Sorry gay people .. you are not like the rest of us. Especially with a gun in your hand. Sure there are few exceptions but why risk our troops. I was totally tollerant for a very long time. We had a gay nanny they was pretty masculine … not too many people knew he was gay. The dude ripped us off and sold my wife's jewelry. He now has HIV now from his partner ... karma wins. He is on the run with his flaming gay partner. Hope they rot in hell. Most gays are pathological liars from years of hiding in the closet.

Yeah, and this certainly would not have happened if the nanny was straight. They would just shake the baby to death.

Don't you think then that if they are allowed out of the closet, they will stop lying? Please let go of you bigoted hate.

We're here. We're queer. And--GASP!--we really are equal. And there isn't @!$%# you can do about it! ;-)

Sigh, I can hear the new military marching cadence's now...

I don't know but I've been told,
My boyfriend has a big butt-hole

When every Tom, Dick and Hairy (pun intended) that comes along can claim special social status, the fabric of what makes America America is forever lost.

You can say that black is white or green is blue....hell, you might even BELIEVE it............but that doesn't make it so.

To all my gay friends out there: the next time you are copulating with your boyfriend, think about your Mom and Dad. If it wasn't for them believing in the union of a man and woman, you sorry ass wouldn't even had existed. I don't feel the least bit or have pity for you. I do feel sorry for your parents.

Personally, I hope you DO engage in your lifestyle as your life span is shorter than the straight male. Fact. Look it up.

PS. I am a straight, male, retired veteran, agnostic, senior citizen. Why can't everybody be like me? lol

DataLink

That is That was F*cking funny as hell

LMAO

@D_Loominator

I agree completely with your first post and all of your points, as well as your posts after.

@MGinRochester

The only manner Loominator equated homosexuality and child molestation was in his opinion that both are unnatural/not normal behaviors and that he is in pity of them for having a warped genetic makeup. Why did you miss this?

@Angel

Read my above comments to MG. Other than immature name-calling, what is your purpose for replying? You say Loominator's view of gays is warped. He has a view different than yours; therefore, it is warped?

@liz

Other than posting continuously to anyone who has a different view than you do and, therefore are 'hateful' in your mind, (a term you use annoyingly steady) what is your point?

@Toosano

Loominator was obviously speaking in metaphor, sounds like you might explore YOUR inner feelings.....

@D_Loominator

Don't hold your breath in expecting an 'intelligent' counter reply to any of your posted comments from these people.

joanne #'s -- really. you are asking how many other countries accept their gay soldiers? try everywhere, but the muslim nations.

Notice that the Dems did this during the Lame Duck Session; that says it all. They have no guts, no class and no morals. Everyone will remember in 2012 what happened this December in Washington.

1ScreaminEagle...

I agree with you in so many ways...

1. 70% of soldiers said it wouldn't affect them....TOTAL BULLSH!T. More than likely, 500 soldiers or less were asked to take part in a survey, not the entire military force. I am MORE than willing to bet a month's pay that this is the case. Most of the troops I know do not want the DADT repealed. Gays would need seperate shower/living facilities because troops already stressed do not want or need to deal with the added crap that open gays bring.
2. If chaplains stay true to religion, then they will not marry a gay couple.
3. Military benefits will become a lot more complicated and costly due to gay couples adding to the already heavy burden there is.
4. Touchy-feely briefings are already at an all time high in the military. We're sick of them. We hate them. They are a waste of time. Adding more sensitivity to homosexuals will break the camel's back for a lot of troops. We tend to be religious. We do not accept the gay lifestyle.
5. The Democrats are using this to further their own agenda for upcoming elections. They refuse to accept anything even remotely conservative and these idiots are determined to destroy this country with their bullsh!t.
6. When my time is up, I'm out. A lot of us are. I'd rather be out and not be groped or oogled at. I've already heard another say that "if a fag touches me I will f'king kill him". No, repealing DADT is NOT a good idea.

jane grey

joanne #'s -- really. you are asking how many other countries accept their gay soldiers? try everywhere, but the muslim nations.

____________________________

So why do Liberals love Muslims?

No matter if we think the repeal of DADT is right or wrong, I still think this is more of a political stunt for Obama to gain votes and possibly stand half of a chance in 2012 elections.

DataLink

My boyfriend has a big butt-hole...

Do you really think you should put your boyfriend out there like that?

Wakeup

Notice that the Dems did this during the Lame Duck Session; that says it all. They have no guts, no class and no morals. Everyone will remember in 2012 what happened this December in Washington.

Wouldn't you say thats a republican thing, since all they know is NO and FILIBUSTER?

InfantrySoldiersWifey -

You're absolutely right. He had to accomplish at least one of his campaign promises.

It is an excellent Bill that has been passed, although this may deter more heterosexuals from enlisting. Then the Draft will be put into place.

Anyone who would give up their lives for this Country is a Hero..

We allow Illegal Immigrants to serve. As they spend more time serving, they are automatically considered Citizens of the US.

If I am incorrect in my statement, please let me know re: Illegal Immigrants.

Gays welcome! They have already contributed much to our US Armed Forces. They are serious about their contributions in fighting for the Freedoms of America.

armygruntjoe

More than likely, 500 soldiers or less were asked to take part in a survey, not the entire military force.

It is a fact that the survey was given to hundreds of thousands of military personal, and tens of thousands turned it in. Because you are an "army grunt", I know you are at the bottom of the intelligence pool. So let me try to explain this to you so that you can understand. 500 does not equal tens of thousands . . . go on, start counting. I know, you will need a lot more fingers than the ones on your hand, but try your best.

Now do you see how bad you fail at basic math? Luckily, you are not smart enough to grasp the full embarrassment of your situation. I just hope that your friends who want to "kill a fag" get what is coming to them. America is better off without you, and your friends.

skrekk - let me ask you a couple question... Do you really think this is a race issue? If so, you are deluded. If not, why are you using it to try and justify a behavior? And do you really think that all white people are given a free pass to success just because they are white? I have worked very hard to get some of the privileges that the vocal minority gets thrown at them every day. Then on top of that, I often have to support handouts that are NEVER granted to me with MY taxes. Maybe you should stop buying into so much hate.

To every other person that is on here spewing hate and using Christianity as a reason- Stop.

God loves them too, even if he doesn't like their behavior. And he loves you too, even when you are acting differently than what he made you to do.

**Steps off soapbox and prepares for all the left( and right) wing hate**

Its amazing that so many of you are just plain racists. You can try and pretty it up saying it will destroy the American society, or make up a whole host of other stupid reasons to rage against a minority group. In the end though, you're still just racists.

And yes, there are bigger issues to tackle, but that doesn't mean we should ignore this one also. Its been an injustice that has been going on for far too long and I'm glad to see this finally repealed.

Idiot from Cali...

I happen to work at the higher end of the "intelligence pool". You wouldn't know that since you only look to trash someone. I was explaining the feelings of a lot of us. Just because your Democrat-run media TOLD you that "tens of thousands" did the survey does not make it true. There is unfortunately a history of "sugar-coating" information that happens a lot when reporting to POTUS. General McChrystal was a real standup guy who pushed us in Afghanistan. He was relieved of duty because of a comment and replaced with a desk-jockey. I am someone who KNOWS the pressures and hell that every troop from every branch goes through. From what I can tell, you've done nothing but mouth off. Brave behind a computer screen, but you don't have what it takes to be in the fight....I'm still troubled as to how you can even remotely qualify as to know anything about me, my job, or my friends.

Our history is also filled with mistakes. Perhaps your parents should have thought about that before they had you.

I do not think a person's sexual orientation has any bearing on a person's fitness or ability to serve in the military. They should be more concerned about weeding out rapists and pedophiles.

Sam-1689305

skrekk - let me ask you a couple question... Do you really think this is a race issue?

It's a civil rights issue.

FYI, the bigots 60 years ago used the same bogus arguments about unit cohesion, military readiness, and shared showers and living quarters. The victims today aren't the same, but the fragile bigots sure are.

They also made the same dire predictions about fragging and a mass exodus of people uncomfortable with serving with those they didn't like. None of that came to pass.

Armygrunt -

Ohhhhhhh, did I hit a nerve? LOL. So let me get this straight . . . when a survey agrees with your point of view, it is accurate. When it disagrees with your viewpoint, it is a lie by the "big, bad, evil media". Because no matter what facts are presented, only YOU know the real truth. Please . . . spare us your conspiracy theory.

On top of that, you talk about "killing a fag" and then claim to be intelligent. So you qualify killing a fellow soldier as an intelligent move? Glad to see you hold so much respect for your brothers in arms.

As for me, I have plenty of family members in the military . . . none of them have the slightest problem with homosexuals. In addition, I talked to recruiters myself. Apparently my multiple college degrees put me far beyond combat duty . . . plus the military can't pay me what I am worth. You see, I am too valuable to be put on the front lines, in the fight.

This bill is soooo @$#%&$# GAY!!!! What a waste of time time, money, and resources!!!!! We need jobs in America, not gay's in the military!!!!! Prez NoBoma is a pile of muslim @$#%!!!! Merry CHRISTMAS A$$hole!!!!!

It's the Christians that are the real faggots. Jesus is cumming (on your) back! Suckers!

I have no issue with the sexual preference of anyoe serving. It is not my business. I supported DADT but realize it was a flawed policy (there never should have been a statement "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" to start with). NO ONE should be discharged just because their sexual preference has been exposed.

That said, I have some real issues with the repeal of DADT because sexual relationships in theaters of operation are some of the most problematic and complicated issues that the military has to deal with. IF gay service members are subject to the same rules as everyone else in theater operations I have no problem with this repeal. IF they are given a different set of standards, then I have a problem with this.

One of my biggest problems with Govco. is when a policy has flaws, why is that policy not fixed?? Why is it we have to have a new policy,when some changes to the existing policy could fix it? I think it has to do with the sense of entitlement our career politicians (and most Americans) have. Can't fix up a dusty old policy when we can have a shiny new one.

Armygruntjoe:

"You got that right"! Thanks for your personal experience and service to our country--

Thoughtless from-Cali is one of those who hides behind the computer. In real life they are cowards. They can't tell the truth. He may think it is the truth while writing on this board, but someone like that, hides behind their "mother's skirt" in fear.

I fail to relize that saying you wish someone has a bad day that ends with them dieing. You are not saying you are going to do something, just saying you hope someone does something to make it that way. Whatever happened to the First Ammendment, oh that right it hardly exists anymore, silly me.

Personally I think people on both sides of this issue need to calm down and act like adults, instead of hurling insults back and forth. It accomplishes nothing and only makes you look emotionally immature.

No one knows how this issue will play out, so all of your speculations are just that...speculations. Will there be issues that arise from this that will need to be dealt with? More than likely, people being people. Will we get past it? Again, more than likely. This is America, where we have proven time and again that we can adapt. It might not happen overnight and there will inevitably be some friction for awhile, but I think we'll overcome it.

One thing is for sure though. This will be easier to deal with than all of the hateful, deragatory speech that comes from both sides of idealogical aisle.

I don't think everyone really understands the effects that getting rid of DADT will have.

Men and women in the military have seperate dorms, restrooms, showers, etc. for obvious reasons. One reason is so that people feel comfortable. For example, you do not have the option to shower in private. Anyone can walk in at any time. If men and women are seperated, than to be fair, gays and straights would have to be seperated. We don't force men and women to shower with each other...

Another reason for seperation is to keep a man and a women from having sex. Now, how would the military handle this? If two men have an open relationship, to be fair, they would have to have seperate living arrangements.

Now, what about marraige? Under the married couples programs that each of the services have, they try to keep married soldiers together as much as possible. This would become a huge issue because, in order for gay people to use these programs, the military would have to aknowledge gay marriages. The problem here is that not all states recognize gay marriage. So, does the millitary recognize marriages even if they are not considered legal in the state a soldier is stationed in? There are a lot of issues here.

Befor anyone starts attacking me with names like 'homophobe':

I have family members in the military as well as friends who are gay. I have no problem with getting rid of the DADT after the soldiers are all back home, but untill that day comes, it needs to stay. The military is not the place to try out new things, its only focus should be the art of war. Whether you are gay or straight should not be discussed. When one prepares for war and for dying, they must be focused only on that. We are at war. There is a time for these changes, and this is not it.

@Greg,

Hey Brother I'm in theater now and in my earlier post I was posting the issue that have been culminating since this DADT appeared in current politics. I have allot bad'arsses that take comfort in their faith (and yes to you civillians many soldier have faith in God) and in thier fellow soldier. I have read many post saying that we who are serving (you and the Constitution) do not know the sexuality of the guy to our left and right. Maybe, Maybe not, But in a small unit & even a CO sized unit we train, work, help, stick-up i.e back each other. Believe me those who doubt we know each other very well and spending so much time in 1 conflict or another makes us even closer as all cringe as the radio crackles for a MEDEVAC as again we are all very close and even closer than family as upon our return home we are usually with each other off duty while wives and kids wait at home. There is nothing closer than a combat unit.

Now as for having gay a soldier in our BN I could not even know. However CO, PLT and as a unit get smaller we are usually tighter because we train specificly with each other to build that unit cohesion needed so bad when in stressful and dyer situation where you can tell from ones voice and behavior all you need to know. So everyone knows everyone and what they are about.

Also as I joined dthe military at 18 upon getting married I learned that there is set time frame while in uniform for PDA (Public Display of effection) in which I briefed my wife and before we were married girl-friend on. during duty hours we my only embrace for 10 seconds and a kiss may only last 3 seconds. Now that differs from post and situation but I have never hald my wifes hand while in uniform but have held her arm as though I was escorting her and even upon my retun home from a 14 month deployment I recived a big hug and kiss neither lastinf more than 10 seconds as this is unprofessional and any effection can wait until we are in private. I hope the same standards are emplaced as it would be disrepsectful to the uniform and the service branch.

As I am not a fortune teller I do forsee growing pains by service members and the DOD finanicaly as more post housing will be needed and Veteran beneifts are passes to partners and VA bebifits are included. And if officers get first pick over enlisted I sincerely, hope that my married soldier are allowed post housing over an unwed gay couple. I again am sure this will be addressed, but I still am worried for my soldiers like any good NCO should be. I don't want my soldiers to have to live with someone they are uncomfortable around and who breaks their idea of morality, all to make a political group happy by throughing aside the moral and welfare of the soldiers and plan to make this lifestyle Choice a career out of the service. I personaly could not care about the shower/ latrine issues.

This is not only one groups fight. As the military can discharge a single mother for child caring issues or discharge an soldier with an obesity issue These soldier had every right to serve and they get the same rights as a homosexual soldier and a straight soldier Again I dont want to see any soldier put ahead of the line while the others suffer, If I have an overweight solder, which is very un common in the infantry than we will work with him untill he makes weight. If there is a single mom or dad the military should provide child care during thier deployment. If you going to try and say it fair it;s not and it needs to be made fair.

Solution... Everyone goes back to single soldier billeting and wives/ loved ones off post like it was pre WWII...LOL!

The truth is that none of us, on either side of the debate have a crystal ball to guarantee the final outcome of these changes. I may be wrong and things may continue to flow as they always have. After all, these men and women are among the most loyal of our citizenry. They will simply obey the orders given to them. This is why I have some reservations to the findings in this report which seems to ask questions after the fact. The way the questions are posed you might as well ask them whether they are still willing to obey orders once this new policy takes force. We know they will and we will just have to take the risk of the unintended consequences after its implementation. Unfortunately this will be a risk laid upon the back of our brave men and women on the front lines. As a parent of a son who has just enlisted in to the Air Force and will soon be deployed I am genuinely concerned. Let us hope that when we look back one day at what some people are hailing as a landmark vote, this doesn’t end up being a landmark that reminds us of America’s greatest military blunder. Let’s just hope.

Now for my shameless plug; to read the rest of my article titled, "My Unbigoted Defence of Don't Ask Don't Tell" go to MSN's Newsvine and click on "The Greenhouse"on the left side of your screen. If you like it, vote and help get me out the greenhouse and into Newsvine live.

Thanks.

NateRiver

I don't think everyone really understands the effects that getting rid of DADT will have.

Sure we do - most of our allies allow open service, and none have had any significant problems as a result. Do you think our bigots are more fragile than theirs?

We've had joint operations with those allies for years, and all of our civilian contractors employ gays without discrimination. Our military has been serving with gays who are open for a very long time.

Thoughtless from Cali, you should so some respect for armygruntjoe, his service and sacrifice as well as the service and sacrifice of millions of American Soldiers (whatever their sexual preference might have been) before him, is the reason you are free to express your opinion. Just because you disagree isn't a license for you to disrespect a Soldier.

I supported DADT, and I will support whatever policy replaces it. My concern is that this isn't about doing the right thing, it is about disrupting the military during war and punishing it for the perceived intolerance of gays.

In the long run, it will hopefully prove to be a good thing, because no one should have to hide who they are to serve in the military. I may have some issues in dealing with homosexual relationships, starting with calling a gay couple married, but that is not a denial of their right to their relationship, merely a disagreement on what to call it.

Sexual relations (of any nature) are not compatible with military combat operations. That's the bottom line, and will hopefully be considered in whatever changes are necessary to implement the new policy.

@Jon Garrett

If you hate "fags" marrying then then your solution is simple, DON'T MARRY ONE!!!

Repealing DADT is the right thing to do but the sanctity of marriage must be protected at all cost. It is a God-given morality value that must be uphold whatsoever. Equality & freedom does NOT mean we can disengaged from the norm & not question the originality of LGBT's existence, as a qualifying factor in determining the true meaning of a marriage.

RedstarRising

Repealing DADT is the right thing to do but the sanctity of marriage must be protected at all cost.

In America, marriage is simply a secular legal contract which grants certain legal rights and obligations. What your church does is irrelevant.

Anyone willing and able to risk their life and go fight for their country deserves the right!

Wake up2840
Shreek, you don't know me or what I've fought for; I served 22 years in the military, advocated minority rights, protected my gay soldiers, and promoted equality. After I retired I served at a State agency promoting equal rights and investigating discrimination.

A tragedy that all that experience failed to teach you the simple concept of equal treatment under the law.

I get so tired of people putting unfair labels on others, to justify their argument. I am a Christian, Tank Carson, and I resent being called a "bigot" or "hateful" - those are words you use to win your point. It merely shows your disrespect of people that don't agree with you. I don't understand why you think your opinion is the only right one. I grew up believing in the Bible. It has always made sense. It has given me direction in my life, and has made my life successful, and worth something. I don't go around hating people, nor do I put them beneath me. If my neighbor needs help, I help them. I don't tell people that they MUST believe as I do, so why do you insist we believe as you do? Our Bible tells us, "man shall not lie with man as he does a woman, woman shall not lie with woman as she does a man. Neither man nor woman shall lie with an animal - in God's eyes, all these things are detestable." That is what I believe - what right do you have to tell me I can't believe this? If a person is a real Christian, you'll NEVER get them to accept your beliefs, no matter what you do. That doesn't make them bigots or haters, just someone who believes differently.

This just paves the way for gay marriage to go forward in all 50 States. Thank you Rinos for making this happen.

Senator Olympia Snow of Maine- Republican

Senator Susan Collins of Maine-Republican

Senator Scott Brown off Massachusetts-Republican

Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska-Republican

Senator Mark Kirk of Illinois-Rebublican

Senator George Volnovich of Ohio-Rebublican

Senator John Ensign of Nevada- Rebulican

Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina-Republican

Greg did you get the Letter from SECDEF yet?

@Greg,

Since I have not served in the military (feel free to attack me about that) I don't really comment about this issue since I have no frame of reference through personal experience. And while I certainly respect and appreciate all of the people in the armed services, I kind of take your comments lightly. Why? Because anybody that uses the term "Homo" to describe a gay person can only be thought of as homophobic, which is what your post comes across as. Not that I disagree with you, I'm just saying . . .

Bill-328037

I get so tired of people putting unfair labels on others, to justify their argument. I am a Christian, Tank Carson, and I resent being called a "bigot" or "hateful"

If you don't like the label, don't act like a bigot.

Our Bible tells us, "man shall not lie with man as he does a woman, woman shall not lie with woman as she does a man.

So don't have sex with someone of your gender. Just remember, your beliefs control your life, not mine.....I'm not a member of your cult.

If a person is a real Christian, you'll NEVER get them to accept your beliefs, no matter what you do. That doesn't make them bigots or haters, just someone who believes differently.

What makes you a bigot is that you want to impose your Christian Sharia law on everyone, and then treat certain people as 2nd-class citizens. That's wrong on both counts. Your religious cult is your concern, not mine and not the government's. And all laws in the US must have a secular purpose - your bible is irrelevant to US law. We also have a constitution which guarantees all persons equal treatment under the law.

No one seeks your acceptance Bill - you're still free to be a bigot, you just can't use the government to impose your religion on everyone else.

TOOSANO,

In the field and normally at home after multiple deployment we tend loose out tact on how we discribe people. As I am not (or at least I don't think I am) a homophobic soldier i use terms that when back in the world people may not find PC. As i am used to saying what i mean in a direct manner as does Greg Personally I don't know him but take his word as I take any persons word of their service until it is proven other wise. So that is why I will interject and appologize for him.

We have been fighting for a long time and are just not the same people we left as, My wife can attest to that. But alot of us Grunts, ground pounders or what ever people call us (baby killers, racist, murderers ect.) take a toll and make the fighter loose respect for the people back home as they talk and support issues without understanding the full ramifications that thier grand ideas will have on us a fighting force.

As much as DADT sound good to repeal to many it make no sence as it will (and I am sure as I know my men and the type of people I fight with) hurt unit moral and lead to issues which are already appearing. We have received a letter from SECDEF about DADT and as memeber of my unit read it you could see and hear the discontent that this letter had on my soldiers. Now most of these are not soldier from the old Army but 18-25 year old kids to me as I am 33yr old. but considered an old man ( don;t as me why) but these men I lead talk with and comfort after losing a friend are infact discusted and I have been answering questions from them all night. Questions like will I have to share my quarters back home with a gay soldier as i do not agree with his life style. Questions like Will Gay soldier get better treatment as we will be under a microscope by the politians, SECDEF,COS,Commanders, and special interest groups. Soldiers have been asking in our round table/ town hall meetings why gay people think this repeal was needed as they were never prohibited from joining into National service and that this is a lifestyle choice or issue and not about civil rights.

How does one answer these questions....as we are not a democracy only the tool to secure it. My soldier do not get any say in how this will effect them and how they feel. They are all to worried about now they are being required to be PC and for my religous soldiers who is about 99.5% of them how they will moraly react aif we recive a gay soldier in our PLT and if they will be judged by God as their superior tell them that this is what you will do and you will like or be punished. Many of my soldiers are expressing their discontent by acknowledging that they will not re-enlist as I have heard many senior officers say the same. I ask myself is it frustration because they are having something forced on them or are they in personal conflict. But anyway you look at it I cannot have my soldiers dwelling on this while we are out in the field and ones mind must be in the game for us to return.

The poll taken was very unclear and worded almost as bad as MSNBC words their poll question. But I can tell you not 1 soldier in my entire BN recived the questioner as the BN co. asked everyone since it was on everyone mind why they did not get it. 400k people were polled out of 2.8 mil service personal and nobody knows what groups (MOS) were used and how many did not take the poll. i know this as relaid by my senior leadership after the poll was released to the MSM. So there is alot of animosity and a feeling of being backstabbed by our political leadership for personal gain. And my job as a PLT SGT is to hold these boys together and deal with their conflict so that this transition goes as smoothly as we can make it. My Job is to also follow order wich I will as I took an oath and remind my soldier of thier oath. My job is to bring these boys home safe and all this is doing for now is hurting and rending my job harder.

I hope that gives you a look into what and why Greg feels and says the things he does.

Fred G. from N.C.: Well said.

ok everyone, this isn't really THAT big a deal in that gays will not be having gay pride parades on base or coming on to everyone in sight, give me a break! gays have always served, the only difference now is that they can acknowledge their partners, or when someone asks "what are you doing this weekend?" they can honestly reply now " having dinner with my partner's family" or "just hanging with my boyfriend". heterosexual conversations go this way all the time, ours couldn't because of DADT. things will not change much at all except for the honesty! and isn't our military supposed to be honorable? and isn't part of being honorable, being honest?

@John

It is a big deal when your soldier are constantly talking about how bad this is instread of focusing on the mission at hand. We have enough issues and trouble here with out politics, politains and special interest groups playing with thier (my troopers) minds. I am here and I see how this has already affected my soldiers. So don't down play it with Gay pride parades and sexual harrasment on stright troops.

If you had to answer or find the answer for the amount of soldiers questions in the last month as I have had to then you would know. but like everyone else your are not in the know nor do you understand how this IS a distraction and distractions out here is life and death.

americano

You make an extremely foolish argument. The bigots obviously outnumber the gays, so to present this repeal of DADT as a political expediency is just not believable. Your other argument about combat readiness is equally foolish because the military forces in virtually every other developed country has already addressed the issue without significant problems. Add to that the fact that the rest of the country has dealt with the issue successfully in workplaces across the land in the regulations against sexual harassment and workplace violence. Since those regulations have been in place there have been fewer incidents and fewer lawsuits concerning these issues.

The military is not only defending freedom ... the military is defending American ideals, including EQUALITY. Those in the military who don't share American ideals should find another line of work.

By the way, President Obama does not at this time support gay marriage, but at least he remains open minded on the issue. I don't think open mindedness is one of your strong points.

MontanaMade

"I am still trying to figure out why we are celebrating sexual deviancy??

And- no- it is not a a stretch from child molester to bestiality to gay/lesbian. All are a conscious choice and all are classified as deviant behavior.

Please do not make the race issue the same as a gay/lesbian issue- they are not. Skin color or nationality are not the same as a behavior.

I am one of many who are tired of the vocal minority forcing the rest of a civilized nation to accept one deviant predilections.

It will stop eventually when the majority wakes up and say enough!"

Please do me the favor of changing your screen name to eliminate the state name. I am proud to be from Montana but I do not want others to think that the people from Montana are a bunch of bigoted and narrow minded hayseeds.

Just for the record...Cali made a post stating that I said that I was going to "kill a faggot". If the educated reader will please read my fist post, they will see that I never said that. My comment was taken out of context to fuel a personal attack without cause.

Of the people in the military who WERE polled, I'm becoming aware that combat troops were left out. I have emailed and called over 40 people in different units across 4 different states and not a single one of them OR their units were polled at all. EVERY one of them is against the repeal of DADT. Only 2 of them said they would reenlist. The rest of them said that there is too much PC in the military and they were getting out as soon as they could.

This gives credibility to my earlier post that the Democrats used a filter when sending out their poll to get favorable results...AKA "sugar-coating" their report for the POTUS, gaining approval, then forcing their BS through Congress before they were sent out on their collective a$$es.

Democrats have always been, are, and shall always be the worst thing that could have happened to this nation. Sure, the GOP isn't much better to be sure....but I wish that TRUE lawmaking resided with real people, not overpaid stuffed shirts stealing our money for personal gain and fleeced votes.

America, this is the start of our downfall. When you've pushed your BS too far with the ones who give their lives for you to the point where they say they give up and quit.....you've got problems....Defend yourselves from now on. I've got 9 years on service right now...I wanted to go the full 20 and I was determined to do that. I ETS in a little over a year...and I'm out. I refuse to serve any more. This is too much. Your PC bullsh!t has finally started costing you the most valuable resource you have. Without defenders, there is no freedom.

armygruntjoe

Polling asks questions of only a representative sample of the population, often far less than one percent, so it is not surprising that none of the 40 that you called had been polled. Also, since I am assuming that those that you called are friends of yours and probably share your narrow view of the world, I am not surprised that they agreed with your exclusionary opinion on this matter. Those who you predict will "give up and quit" will do so because they do not believe in equality for all citizens of this country. I hope that the implementation of the DADT repeal will include a "bigot clause" to allow homophobes to terminate their service immediately rather than cause trouble for the loyal Americans who wish to serve.

So, armygruntjoe, please quit. You represent the United States while you are in uniform but clearly do not believe in the ideals set forth in the Constitution you swore to uphold. You will be replaced by a gay man who believes in what this country stands for.

@armygruntjoe:

I knew quite a few (50-60) people who received the survey...and those are just the ones that told me about it. But then again, I network with a lot of different career fields across all ranks and services and have joint instructor experience. I have contact with hundreds of students and active duty military (mostly combat troops) on a weekly basis, and I hate to break it to you, but I have yet to hear any of the younger enlisted or officers say they disagree with the repeal of DADT. Most of them have the attitude: "Did he make it through EOD school? Yes? Then why do I care who he sleeps with?" So, go ahead and believe it's a conspiracy if you wish...

In any case...

Get out if you feel you must. You can and will be replaced. Good luck with that attitude in the real world...

1screaminEagle, Good to see ya back on the vine. Great job trying to explain your situation and the facts as I have on many occasions. Unfortunately we will still be called bigots. It is hard if not impossible to express yourself as a soldier to civilians that are blinded by their self righteous comments. The can of worms is open my friend, fell like some fishing? You sound like a good leader that sets the example and I know you will bring your boys home! Happy Holidays!

Barry NJ, you agree then. Racism isn't the same as gayness. Racism has been taken care of in the military aspect, but gay lifestyle is still a perversion and will always be a perversion! Just because some of the current society approves of a perversion doesn't make it right.

don97524 - I do not want others to think that the people from Montana are a bunch of bigoted and narrow minded hayseeds.

Well, there is the Montana Republican Party, which in its party platform wants to criminalize homosexuality......

But I feel for you - my home state of Wisconsin recently enshrined homophobia in its constitution.

Whoever thinks that homosexuality isn't natural clearly hasn't had education in the field of animals. There are a few animals that have same sex partners and partake in sexual intercourse. Look it up.

As to whether or not you feel that homosexuality is moral or immoral has nothing to do with defending our country. Clearly people are ignorant and think that every homosexual wants to bang you. More than likely your an uggo and that's not the case. Some say you will be scared if a gay guy hits on you. I highly doubt scared is the word, maybe confused or caught off guard. Some of you are stereotyping people you don't know, which should go against your beliefs. You insinuate that all gays just want to hump every one sight, care about how pretty their hair is, and throws like a girl. Get over yourself and grow up Peter Pan.

Next people are complaining about marriage and how were ruining the sacredness of it. I'm pretty sure that it was ruined when 60% of marriages ended up in divorce, that doesn't include separations. You say you don't care what happens behind closed doors, then why do you care so much about marriage?

Sometimes you have to take a step back from being a liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, religious, and realize that 1st and foremost i'm a human. Were all humans who may not always agree, see eye to eye, and understand. We need to at least garner an attempt to accept and realize that were biologically similar. There is nothing wrong with being gay, straight, bi, different race, or religion.

I don't know what happened to the Bill of Rights and how it doesn't apply to everyone. I don't know what happened to being free. I don't understand how we as a country can say the government can't tell us who we are, what we want to be, and then turn around say ban these types of people and their actions.

If you're against homosexuals, you may be a hypocrite.

AndeeV

Good post. It is not even necessary to look to the animal kingdom to understand that homosexuality is an orientation rather than a preference. Behavioral scientists have understood for a generation that homosexuality is not a choice (except, perhaps, in prison).

Thanks, EAGLE.

Like I said, I don't feel I can really take a position on this topic, as interesting as it is.
One thing I will say is that there can be no dissension in the troops and there are surely a lot of "issues" in this issue!

don, skrekk

At least you're not from Texas...

Andee

Animals also sniff and eat piles of turds. So with your analogy, that would be acceptable human behavior too! Hey man, if you want to live like an animal have at it, but I prefer to live like a civilized human being who can distinguish right behavior from wrong!

Hey man, if you want to live like an animal have at it, but I prefer to live like a civilized human being who can distinguish right behavior from wrong!

Equality = right. Bigotry = wrong.

Welcome to civilized humanity.

Bigotry and perversion go together.

well, bigotry animals do bigotry too so...

So if I understand correctly If a person is concerned that this will have a negative impact on ones soldiers you are a Bigot?

What they (the Big guys at the white house) are just understanding that if gay marriage is passed and is legal the Military/ DOD budget will have to increase a few Billion as they failed to factor the what if's in. Housing ofr gay dependants, BAH, BLQ, Sepration pay on deployment, DEERS i.e. tricare. Spouse survivors benifits, retirment, Veterans pention, aid and legal issues such as the increased of Sexual Harassment cases, Mandatory blood drives etc, etc, there is so much that Obama will not want to undertake under his term in office as this will most deffinantly increase the military budget big time. as he is looking for reasons to draw it back. So I can see why some Generals and SECDEF are in support. More money!

so screaming eagle, civil rights are all about money for you?

negetive john I was simply pointing out the issues many have failed to think through and address.

Most of the issues you raise were addressed in the report. Have you read it?

Honestly No i have not as I am in a war zone with limited acces to the net but i will find it and look at it and maybe it might bring some calm to my soldier and thier concerns. I Hope.

Here you go. http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf

And here's the implementation plan: http://www.defense.gov/home/features/2010/0610_gatesdadt/DADTReport-SPI_FINAL_20101130(secure-hires).pdf

And thanks for your service!

I can't wait for the next "consideration of others" informational brief

No, sorry to say...the Democrats will kill the military like they always do. They decided what our policies have to be, then when we need more money to implement those policies, they'll cut our budget. They do it every time.

TX idiot. There are a LOT of guys getting out. I talked to 3 guys today, 2 are ETSing within 6 months. They do not agree with the repeal. Not my words, theirs. The shame is that they are really good soldiers.

Don,

Of the people I talked to, one was an openly lesbian female. Basically, you do not know what you are talking about. Stop with the inflamatory accusations.

Cali,

There are a lot of LTCs COLs and higher that have MULTIPLE COLLEGE DEGREES and quite a few I know with doctorates. They are ALL in the fight. Since you seem to be overly self-important, please go out and earn your rights as I am tired of providing you with them. People like you ride our backs for your successes and destroy our lives every chance you get.

History has proven many times that it repeats itself. When this bites you in the a$$, I hope I'm there to see it just for S&Gs.

That's right, Michelle. None of us are truly free until there is no more discrimination. Thankfully, we still selectively discriminate those who prefer animals as sexual partners because that is just sick and disgusting.

Those people should never be allowed to be who they are. Ewww.

A true victory for our country. A giant step for equality. And a great victory for Pres. Obama, completing one more of his campaign promises.

Yeah I'm sorry, you'll have to remind me.

How many has he kept?

126. 270 in the works. See here: http://politifact.com/

How about nobama work as hard on something important like the ECONOMY! Wastes time on this crap and supports the illegals and SUES Az. Hurry up 2012!!

Did you all see Nancy "tearing up" behind the President? Wat a piece of work. But it's NOT ok for any republican to show any emotion.

Yeah, because John Bohner doesn't start balling like a baby when you say, "Good morning to him." Whatever. At least it was GENUINE emotion and not some fake crocodile tears.

A giant step for equality.

Any man who would have sex with another man will NEVER be my equal regardless of what any piece of paper says.

Brian: Quite a few, actually. Does anyone know (or care, since no one cared while he was President -- it was never an issue and it was never brought up, certainly not by Republicans and Bush Apologists) how many campaign promises Bush actually kept?

name them michelle.

Todd,

Thats right, they will be BETTER then you, especially since they can serve now...I would love to watch you get owned by a gay soldier...

It should be noted that repeal of DADT does NOT mean that our transgender military personnel are free to serve openly.

My problem with this entire thing is that the focus of our government now should be getting us out of debt, getting people working, taxing the crap out of the companies that have created a new type of slavery by shipping jobs overseas, and getting this country respected again in the world. As a moderate liberal, I believe that these matters are not important right now. Obama should focus on what is more important versus getting back his political capital. For example, when they voted for the riches to get their tax cut back and baited us with stupid temporary 1 YEAR breaks for us. They raced to get that voted, yet they did not vote for the additional medical help for those that were first responders to 9/11????

When we have near double digit unemployment, why is a long standing issue of gays in the military a more important issue? Should not taxing the companies that ship our jobs overseas and create this spiraling economic disaster the more important issue? Oh no they are the ones running the country...distract them by voting on gay issues. Please this country needs a more centralist president. Not far right leaning like the war mongers in the Republican party (I was a soldier during Regan and Bush and in combat). I also dont want the far left that is more interested in social issues that they want versus getting the country moving. God help future generations. This country is a mess.

cmon-864012 -

Politifact has done a thorough job of enumerating promises kept by President Obama, promises still pending, and promises that have not been kept. To publish that entire list here would make the blog unreadable - just go to www.politifact.com and read them yourself. It's really silly for you to keep making those one-line challenges that imply the President has not kept his promises for the most part.

Leslie,

The reasoning behind the emotion is very different. I would suspect that crying because your "lunch bud" of 5 years is leaving verses a true humanitarian victory are two completely different reasons to show emotion, imo.

"a giant step towards equality"??? for who?? If gaypeople are allowed to practice their sexuallity openly, but others are not, how is that equal??? How is this a victory for our country, when this now creates a legal precident AGAINST our Military for the 14,000 that have been previously eliminated from serving? How is the US Military now better having one Group of people, given rights and privileges over the majority for their Behavior? Not sure how ANYONE can see this as good, proper or beneficial except to a specific political group, whose goal is directly opposit of a Cohesive Fighting Force.

That's right Michelle, all about Obammie getting a big Victory by a lame duck Congress and against the popular opinion of the majority of Americans. See you in 2012

A reactionary is someone who defines them self not so much by what they are for but rather who or what they are against. These are people whose core beliefs and world view is brittle, superficial and without intellectual merit. They cannot discern obvious propaganda (FOX) from the complexities and sometimes counter intuition of actual truth. They strike out at anyone who is not exactly like them and they fight change and progress at every turn. These people are incapable of critical thinking, introspection, questioning of authority or self. They are the first to tell you they are Christian all the while not acting at all Christian. They confuse "loud - wearing it on your sleeve patriotism" with being a quiet patriot. They consider social justice, charity and love of neighbor a weakness. They play the victim - the injured party all the while attacking those who would do them no harm. They are haters! To all the the homophobes on here I can only say if you met me or one of my friends out here in the real world (no computer screen to hide behind) you would keep your opinions to your self or if so foolish to do otherwise you wouldn't last two minutes before saying "uncle" on the floor. I've know people like you all my life and you're typically cowards and lightweights. Most are by male standards unattractive and have no attraction for me or any other self respecting Gay man - the women are shrill! All in all these people only feel good about themselves, of any value or important when putting other people down. What a sad bunch of yahoos!

Todd-1965548,

Actually, I started school a year early (at 5 instead of 6, first grade, skipping kindergarten entirely), skipped 5th grade, started college in the 9th grade, and graduated from high school at 16, getting my bachelor's by 18 and my master's by 20. I own my own business, make six figures, have tons of friends, I'm one of the most respected professionals in my field, and I'm gay. Tell me, can you say any of the same about yourself? Didn't think so.

You're right. I'm not your equal. I'm your superior. Figured I'd go ahead and post agreement with you, since it's rare you straight guys manage to say anything true about us. ;-)

What a victory??? WTF??? So what happens when child molesters want to be "FREE" to chase their dreams? Or beastiality lovers want their "FREEDOM"?

Again I ask- why are we celebrating sexual deviancy?

wrong, wrong, wrong!

Obama Sucks

thanks for screwing it up for the rest of us.

Scott, you were screwed up long before Obama came along. So far I see all the objections regarding gays in combat. Combat arms are but a percentage in the military. There are support services, technical services, instructors, etc where many soldiers preferto serve. Many prefer those MOS's and AOC's because it provides them a better educational base should they decide to pursue a civilian career following their term of service. So don't fret all you homofphobs. They may prefer to insure that you get paid on time, feed you when you are hungry, get your promotion packets in, tend to your wounds, make sure you have proper uniforms and teach the classes you need for your own careers rather than worry if you would have their backs in combat, even though they would have yours because they are what you are not....professional soldiers.

Rhodes,

Your last post is EXACTLY what we're talking about. You're FLAUNTING your own accomplishments at others and acting "superior". Come on overseas where we can beat your fag a$$ in the sand. We have no problem with gay women, open or not. They have the brains to keep things to themselves or stay low-profile. It's idiots like you with your screwed up sense of "entitlement" that mess things up for everyone else.

I am a combat soldier with a college education ongoing. I take my classes whenever I can to better myself. I have been under fire more timesthan I can count, been to Iraq twice, Afghanistan once, and about to return to Afghanistan again....ALL since November 2004. I have been decorated numerous times, been promoted above my peers, I have the respect of Generals and Colonels, and am trusted by thousands of people I know across my brigade because they know I look out for them. Together, we have saved lives of innocent people, taken a few when we had to, removed ammunition, IEDs, and kept people safe wherever we go.

Other than pushing your own stupid agenda, wtf have you done with your life that's really important? I'll give you a clue.....it's the same as your actual worth.

NOTHING.

Leslie-1681328

Did you all see Nancy "tearing up" behind the President? Wat a piece of work. But it's NOT ok for any republican to show any emotion.

Are you sure you want to go there? Nancy 'teared up'. Boner slobbered and for what?

@armygruntjoe....... YOU ROCK!!!! Thank you for all you do for our country!!! I agree with your comment 110%!!!! Thanks again for keeping my family and me safe!!!!!

L. J. Rhodes:

This is a fake comment if I ever read one on this board. Post your picture and business name so you can prove to the board you are truly who you are.

Yes, you "skipped" a lot. Life and the truth.

As I said above, I could care less about a Service Member's sexual preference, it is not my (or anyone else's) business. That said, I have some serious reservations about the repeal of DADT which was a good, but flawed, policy.

Are gay service members going to be subject to the same rules as everyone else in theaters of operation, particularly combat zones?? If they are, great, but if they are going to have a separate standard then I will have major issues with this change

Fred from N.C.

I am positive they will give the same positions of combat in War Time to the Gays as they do Women now Serving..

As you already know, many Women are flying the F-18 Fighter Planes, and are superior at it.

A recent interview with a wonderful Gay Man, who is now a Lieutenant Col in the Forces flies Fighter Jets, and has received numerous Awards/Medals for his combat Service, thus saving his "brothers' and sisters" lives in the Military whether they were gay or not. The Gay people who serve don't see it as a Sexual Mission. It is their Patriotism to this Country that stands out loud and clear.. It was an extraordinary interview..

@ tank carson......Really PRINCESS!? You are the one hiding behind HER computer making threats!!!!! Snap or tap PRINCESS, MEN don't say uncle!!!!! Stay behind your computer and leave the real fighting to MEN, silly little girl!!! LMFAO

It wasn't the combat assignments I was referring to, it is in theater conduct. If homosexual sexual relations are allowed and heterosexual sexual relations are not, then that is not fair under the law and will have to be legally challenged. I personally believe all fraternization of any nature,be it gay or straight, should be banned in combat theaters of operation, but I'm old school like that. TCB in theater, then I fully support you getting your groove on, no matter what your preference is !

Marchent...

Scientific studies PROVED that women were actually better fighter pilots than men...Weird, but true.

1. The shape of a woman's pelvis, though FOR childbirth, actually allows a woman to stand higher G-Force stresses than a man.
2. A woman's natural lower center of gravity allows her to learn martial arts faster than men who have to learn that lower center of gravity. That same feature also centers a woman better in the cockpit and allows her to "sense" her surroundings easier.

Weird but true facts.....and this is coming from a grunt who read the report!!!

Put women fighter pilots in the skies and call 'em Valkyries.....seriously. That would be cool as hell. History would repeat itself and it wouldn't ever look any better.

Marchant,

Not a fake post at all. I own an incredibly successful commercial photography and graphic design business, having received my master's in journalism (advertising and public relations w/ emphasis in photojournalism, to be exact) at 20, and have been doing it ever since, with a business that has flourished even during economic crises.

My point is that straights keep saying we're inferior to them, when, in fact, we've a much higher propensity to be better-educated, more affluent members of society who're also twice as likely to own our own businesses.

If one only sets a person's worth on whether or not he can reproduce, that's not even a valid measure of my worth, since I can, indeed, reproduce just like any straight guy. I simply choose not to, because to do so would be to have sex with a woman, which runs contrary to my in-born nature of being gay. That I actually can control my urge to reproduce means I'm at least a little less animalistic than many a straight man, so once again, I'm by no means inferior to straights.

And, if all else fails, I'm also one hell of a fighter who hasn't lost a fight since he was a wee lad. So, again, I'm not even physically inferior (to the guy who said he'd like to beat my faggot ass into the sand--just you, me and a sound-proof room, any day, and time, sweet cheeks). So, even by the might-is-right creedo, I've got an edge over most of the people I've met.

You rail at me for calling a gay-basher to the carpet, but everything I said was true. You're obviously just pissed because you've also been forced to realize we're just as good as straights (if not better). That, alone, robs your responses to me of any creedence as far as I'm concerned.

My point is that straights keep saying we're inferior to them, when, in fact, we've a much higher propensity to be better-educated, more affluent members of society who're also twice as likely to own our own businesses.

Can you cite your source here or is this just made up?

Also, you are not controlling your urges to reproduce. Your genetic make up is doing that for you.

Your post reflects to me that you really haven't come to terms with your sexuality.

Yes, this is America, where all men are created equally!

The same goes for those who don't like gays in the military. They also have a choice. They don't have to join or re-up. What difference does the cost make? Since when does "cost" determine a person being given the equal rights guaranteed by the constitution? Being bi-sexual should make no more difference than being gay, in or out of the military. NO sexual preference should make a difference. That has been the point of the repeal of DADT all along. Gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals are all living among the heterosexual members already. This does not change anything, except in the minds of those heteros who are too insecure in their own sexuality. I'm gay and I don't like being hit upon by anyone of either sex if I don't also find that person attractive. But there is the real problem for both sexes and lifestyles. What one person may feel is "being hit upon" may just be a sign of "friendship" to another.....especially for someone who has been raised to be "affectionate" with hugs, etc. How do you write that into "rules"? There will have to be some changes in the UCMJ code, but that shouldn't take more than a month or two. The Code isn't that complex. Then you issue an order to all troops that here are the changes, conform. The military has known for two years that the President intended to push for the repeal. The top brass has been working on that possibility for nearly that long as well. The Log Cabin Republicans started their lawsuit to overturn DADT years ago. That too should have been an indication to the military to start to prepare for the change.

I just hope that the Appeals Court moves ahead with their decision on the constitutionality of the 1993 law or that the DOJ will drop their appeal so that the military will have to move quickly, not slowly, with the change.

Gina, you sound mean. Seriously. Lighten up and trying loving your countrymen instead of sneering and judging.

Fuked news the repugs & teabggers are so proud of you for spreading more of their Christmas hate keep up the good work & maybe you will find a lump of something in your stocking from Santa

Gina/Alabama-

People like you make me sick. Why don't you put your narrow-minded opinions aside for just a minute and think of this law in terms of constitutionality. Does our government have the right to tell a person what jobs they can or can't do based on their sexual orientation? No, they don't have that right. This is a huge victory for the gay community and for the constitution. This is after all a country founded on the principal that all men are created equal.

Quite a few people posting here and not are talking about how removing the D.A.D.T policy is wrong. That it's "simply wrong". I think someone said something like, "if they don't like the D.A.D.T policy, then don't join." The same can go for straight men.

I am a straight man, but I also have gay friends. Is this not america? Are all men not equal? You know there used to be a time way back when women couldn't vote. Are you saying that should never have been changed? This is 2010. Stop living in the 50's and 60's. Women can vote. Women can work. Gays should be allowed to serve!

The fact is, even with this D.A.D.T policy being removed, it doesn't mean many gay military personnel will suddenly become open about their sexual orientation. Things can change and who knows...the D.A.D.T policy or a brand new policy banning gays could be created 10 years down the line. Things can and do change all the time and then all those gay soldiers who suddenly become gay, will have their careers ruined because people can't accept them.

Well, I can care less if a soldier is gay or not. If they are well trained and can fire a weapon like the rest of them and defend their country, then I would have no issue with them standing by my side. What's wrong with people? Why are they against removing this policy? Do you think if a gay soldier was next to you out on the battle field, they're gonna be looking at your genitals instead of firing at the same enemy you're firing at? GROW UP! Just because a person is gay and next to you in the changing area, doesn't mean they want to sleep with you or are desperate to see you naked. GROW UP!

I don't know why people are so against the removal of this policy. Do you think gays have cooties? Grow up...we're not in kindergarten anymore. Do you think gays have aids? Sure, some do, but so do some straight people. Aids is not a disease that was chosen to infect gays. People get aids when they are careless and do not use the proper protection or by other means that are accidental, like in a lab or something. Do you think think if a gay person is in the same tent as you changing and getting ready for battle, that they want to see you naked or sleep with you? Well, seriously, you need to grow up. Not everyone is a pervert and has sex on their mind 24/7.

I'm sure there are other reasons people can come up with on why they are against the removal of the policy, but for the last time, please grow up and actually believe in the phrase: All men are created equal

My-my, poor Gina writes a comment and the so called "tolerant" liberals jump all over it with mean and nasty comments. This just goes to show those who champion the gay rights movement are pushy, bossy and if you don't walk lockstep with them you are wrong. Sorry to tell you this kids, but in this country everybody is entitled to their opinion, it's just that liberals/progressives are the meanest bunch of people I have ever seen. Gina is right---we have alot of more pressing problems to deal with right now--shame on all of you who must hate the poor and unemployed---wanting this to take center stage rather than helping those of us out of work and poor, you only care about yourselves--shame on you! What we need are more conservatives, they actually care about the little people.

rightiskind---

Just so you are aware I am not a liberal. How is it you figure that people who want DADT repealed only care about themselves. I'm not gay, this doesn't directly benefit me in any way. What I do care about is equality and protecting the rights that our constitution guarantees all Americans, regardless of sexual orientation. Anyone who defends DADT should be ashamed of themselves they are defiling everything this nation was founded on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA how delusional are you? It must be nice in your candy cane world of unicorns and talking squirrels. The conservatives who "care about the little people" are the same conservatives who said they wouldn't allow any vote on any piece of legislation until the RICH got their tax cut. They were willing to throw you "poor unemployed" people out in the cold, letting your tax cuts expire until the Dems allowed them to give a break to Donald Trump. These are the people you're counting on to look out for you? With friends like that, who needs enemies?

thank you for reminding me how many tight asses we still have in this country

I'm interested in knowing what everyone thinks about seperate barracks, showers and rules for gays in the military? Woman received it when they were enlisted, should it be the same for gays?

Gina,

Your right. This is America we're talking about. The land of the free and the home of the brave.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they have been endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness".

All men (and women) have these rights: old/young, religious/non-believers, tall/short, fat/skinny, smart/dumb, black/white/asian/latino, straight/...and yes...gay/lez/bi.

This is a no brainer. Which is why the repeal of DADT is a just and right thing to do. It's easy. So, checking this off of the list of things to do lets us, as a nation, now turn to more difficult tasks where the waters are murkier and the course of action less certain. This will no longer be a distraction.

Gay, lesbian, and bisexual service people will continue to serve as they always have, with pride and professionalism. They won't "attack" straight roommates or demand "special" rights. They will just keep on doing their jobs, only now they won't have to worry about being outed and getting kicked out. Now the military won't have to waste time pursuing leads from snitches, enacting legal proceedings, train replacements for critical skills and jobs, or be on the wrong end of a useless, discriminatory practice. All of which is a huge waste of time, money, and resources.

As for housing. How is it any different from colleges assigning people to dorm rooms? If you don't like your roommate, change rooms. I'm sure there will be some logistically problems with this, but the fundemental truth is that you probably still won't know who is gay and who isn't unless you really, really look for it. And even if you do suspect someone is gay, haven't you already been living/working; training/fighting; serving our nation together with this person? Haven't they earned your respect for choosing to go into harms way to defend the principles of freedom and democracy, even for people that don't like them?

Back about 30 years ago, gays were derided, harassed, ostracized, etc. It was wrong of normal people to be so cruel, narrow minded, and intolerant.

Today, anyone who doesn't love gays is derided, harassed, ostracized. etc. It is wrong of gay people to be so cruel, narrow minded, and intolerant.

I guess that just goes to show you. Society is incapable of riding itself of bigotry. All it can do is decide which way it shall be directed.

Gina you know you are right....This is America and we denying right to citizens because of sexual orientation. This is a big step for the Americans it affects and Don't Join?? Really! If someone wants to join the military and protect the rights that you and many others take advantage of why should their sexual orientation stop them? It shouldn't and Obama has made it to where if someone is fighting for their country they can do it without worrying about whether someone finds out their sexual orientation. So excuse me for saying this but if you don't like it TOUGH @!$%#!

Once again someone says what they believe and all the h0m0 lovers jump all over it. Their opinion is the only thing that matters.

patchapoo--Thank you for the early morning entertainment. Now go back to your own little world. You're obviously meant to be there, and not here in reality with the rest of us.

Yes this is America where we believe in the rule of law, which is now that gays can serve as they always deserved just like the racial integration of the military, there will be those who oppose it to their last breath, but eventually they will just look like pitiful whiners. It's the 21st century, wake up and smile.

@gina/Alabama,

There are about twice the percentage of gay and bisexual men in the military and professional sports than in the general population. The percentage of lesbians and bisexual women are about the same in the military as the general population.

Sociologists posit that this is because when men were pre-adolescents they concentrated on sports, military, and things macho as a way of compensating for sexual orientation issues that they did not understand (having yet to reach puberty.) They also became "religious" in much greater numbers.

Women were far less inclined to do this since they had the "tomboy" option.

When sexual orientations were finally determined at puberty, the men were left with a higher level of athletic skills and more interest in things macho. This meant that there were more gay and bisexual men who entered the military and professional sports than those with nothing to prove (if even to themselves.)

And incidentally, even though the percentage if lesbians and bisexual women in the military is far lower than gay men, and the sheer numbers of men are far greater than women, over the years 8 times as many women have been discharged for homosexuality than men. It has long been a presumption in the military that if a woman resists your sexual advances, she must be a lesbian. John McCain, during his lone command (of a training squadron scheduled to be shut down) dismissed at least four women as homosexuals --- all four independently and without knowledge of the others contended that their "homosexual" act was to refuse to go to bed with him (he was married and readily admits his philandering at the time.)

@Jeff - I wonder if you're a smoker.... smoking is banned in bars in most states for the benefit of public health. bars are private businesses and yet they don't have the right to say "If you don't like cigarette smoke, stay out" because this discriminates against non-smokers. The US military is an arm of the US government - to not allow US citizens to freely serve to protect it is truly discriminatory and suggests that they could not have the same patriotism as servicemen who are either straight or in the closet. The largest hurdle is the same that it has always been: a small minority of ignorant neanderthals are going to moan about being worried that they'll be hit on. I'm straight and I don't worry simply because I know I won't change my mind regardless of how many gays think I'm attractive. These folks that are worried must have some questions in their own minds that remain unanswered... Just Sayin' lol

Jaytee-I suppose if the showers and barracks were all unisexual the "moaning" from the woman about showering with men would also be from "ignorant neanderthals?" The fact that you don't mind showering with gay men may in itself be a question in your own mind that remains unanswered....just sayin. lol.

A giant step for equality.

Any man who would have sex with another man will never be my equal regardless of what any piece of paper says.

Gina ALABAMA - If you lost your job just because of who you were then you really would have a reason to feel sick!

Yes, this is America, where all men are created equally!

Here we go again: Any man who would have sex with another man will never, under any possible circumstances, be "equal" to heterosexual men. Go ahead and convince yourself otherwise and live your existence in denial. Your incorrect assessment changes nothing.

How many openly gay men have the commentors on here know personally? Of the five I have known three went to jail for embezzlement and one recently got fired from a job for claiming military service when none existed. That's a 80% success rate for being thieves and liars. Proving to me many of the assertions in these comments are correct. While I know some will argue that not all gays are like this I can say I have only met one possible honest gay man. In fact this lifelong registered Democrat firmly believes it's almost an oxymoron. Reality bites and many people just do not want anything to do with it.

Todd: You're right. Because with your backward, bigoted, discriminatory attitude, the gay man probably can't help but be above you -- mentally, intellectually, and spiritually.

By the way, DADT repeal also covers lesbians. I guess they don't creep you out as much, and don't garner your disgust, or whatever "emotion" you "feel" about it, as well?

You are obviously operating under the guise that there are no LGBT people in the military n ow and this will open the flood gates. LGBT people have always been and will always be a part of our military. The only difference is they no longer have to lie about their lives.

I won't even address the other myths that you are operating under. But you might want to go back and re-read a little document called the US Constitution. That is, if you can read.

Todd, What makes you believe YOU are equal to the rest of the human race. Assuming again huh?

Gina,

I've spoken with my friends that are military or retired; and none of them have a problem with gays in the military. They are wise enough to know that orientation does not dictate how effective one is at being a soldier. They are wise enough to know that they all are on the same side and stand together in strength.

Of course, I'm not surprised that someone from the is phobic and prejudice. The south, typically; has old-fashioned notions and is resistant to change and growth. This ignorance also partially explains why so much of the deep south is at the bottom of the education system and in so much poverty. Narrow-mindedness isn't the only reason; but, it does play a part.

As far as support of gays and lesbians: gay or straight - I care not who loves who - you love who you love - just keep it in private. Yes, this goes for a young straight couple making out at the local restaurant too, get a room; keep heavy petting, groping, and such - private. (holding hands and quick kisses are fine in public - they are not overtly strong gestures)

Todd-

I'm assuming you weren't real good at math or statistics. You can't base your opinion of an entire group of people on 5, you don't have a large enough sample to make that leap. That would be like me saying that I went to school with 1 African American girl, and she was a B**** therefor all African American girls are B****s. Do you see just how illogical that jump is?

I also find it hillarious that you honestly believe that you are better than someone strictly based on sexual orientation. Say for example that you are hetero, and your job is a janitor and you drink too much booze and beat your wife and kids. Now take a homosexual man who has a productive career, a loving relationship with their partner and is wonderful to his adopted children. Do you really think that in this case you would be better strictly based on sexual orientation?

gina/alabama,

your ignorance shines bright, i can see it all the way here in cali.

@Gina/Alabama

You and those like you were not drafted nor will you be. You and those like you have a choice. You and those like you don't like the repeal DADT, then don't join! I am not sorry. Is this too simple? After all, this is America we are talking about.

Todd,

Time for you get back to work, the burgers aren't going to flip themselves.

The only bigots here are the homophobes that want to be protected. All of the chatter about gays hitting on straight people is downright amusing... I can't tell you how many straight men have offended ME with tacky pick up lines or inappropriate gestures or touches, completely unprovoked. Some of the biggest homophobes I know are the same kinds of guys who would not think twice about appropriately hitting on a lady.

Gays have tactfulness. Gays are human beings with manners and etiquette. They are just like me. They just want to lead a happy life, with the liberties that every human being is due.

And if they want to serve the country and are willing to put their lives on the line for every one of us, LGBT friendly and homophobes and racists and democrats and republicans alike, then BE GREATFUL.

I'd like to say THANK YOU to every person in the military. You do for me what I do not have the guts and courage to do.

A reactionary is someone who defines them self not so much by what they are for but rather who or what they are against. These are people whose core beliefs and world view is brittle, superficial and without intellectual merit. They cannot discern obvious propaganda (FOX) from the complexities and sometimes counter intuition of actual truth. They strike out at anyone who is not exactly like them and they fight change and progress at every turn. These people are incapable of critical thinking, introspection, questioning of authority or self. They are the first to tell you they are Christian all the while not acting at all Christian. They confuse "loud - wearing it on your sleeve patriotism" with being a quiet patriot. They consider social justice, charity and love of neighbor a weakness. They play the victim - the injured party all the while attacking those who would do them no harm. They are haters! To all the the homophobes on here I can only say if you met me or one of my friends out here in the real world (no computer screen to hide behind) you would keep your opinions to your self or if so foolish to do otherwise you wouldn't last two minutes before saying "uncle" on the floor. I've know people like you all my life and you're typically cowards and lightweights. Most are by male standards unattractive and have no attraction for me or any other self respecting Gay man - the women are shrill! All in all these people only feel good about themselves, of any value or important when putting other people down. What a sad bunch of yahoos!

Gina,

You must be Obammies Sex Czar, telling people what they can and can't do in public.

Yes, this is America, where all men are created equally!

Then why is there welfare? If you truly that all men, and all women, are created equally then there is no need for entitlement programs. If a man fails it's because he failed not because America somehow failed him. With that said, I'm tired of paying for other people's failures.

because a rational society takes care of its' citizens who, for the TIME-BEING, are unable

get rid of all the damn illegal mexicans and we would have jobs for everybody.

repeal nafta and our jobs will be back within our own borders.

until that happens, keep paying. you voted for it...you deserve it.

Equality, the Constitution, all men are equal - what a bunch of hogwash! I am against homosexuality of ANY form, yet I've been told to keep my mouth shut, that I am no longer allowed to say anything about what I believe in. You queers aren't making it better for yourself, you're making it worse for everyone around you. You ARE ALREADY entitled the same freedoms I am, not as queers, but as American citizens! You go around, screaming for equality, yet you take equality away form others to advance your perverse desires.

L.J.Rhodes, enjoy your pretend riches, since you don't even know what riches are! You're not successful - you're sick! I don't hate you, I feel sorry for you.

Tank-Great idea, try to threaten people that are against anything you stand for. Now that's a way to try to change any public opinion towards your stubborn point of view. And when you or your lynching buddies try to sway people's opinion, you can take comfort knowing that you've created more hatred. And in turn made yourselves the sad bunch of yahoos.

Tank is just a pissed off princess that thinks him and his ferries can change our minds by threats behind a computer!!!! So sad, PRINCESS!!!! LMFAO

armygruntjoe

I am very happy that, as you said in a previous post, you intend to leave the military. You have shown through your many narrow-minded and hateful comments that you have no respect for either the Constitution, which you swore to uphold, or for your fellow Americans. Our military will be a much better without homophobes such as yourself, especially since so many who hate gays also are antisemitic, racist, misogynistic, and generally against any non-WASP. If you don't respect your fellow Americans and the principles of this country why would you elect to serve? I don't get it.

AKwrench

Most of us are convinced that your mind will not be changed. We just can't help pointing out to you that you are wrong.

Bill

What is wrong with you? I though people like you went underground in the mid-50's. Wishful thinking on my part.

Todd,

I guess you don't believe in the Constitution of the United States or the Declaration of Independence, huh? Because both of those documents, which have been the hallmark of American society, disagree with you.

tyler, if you're online today, what causes Newsvine to duplicate threads such as the beginnings of thread #3 duplicated in thread #8? This is happening quite frequently lately.

anti

The repeat message is probably a user error rather than a Newsvine problem.

Don,

One of my battle buddies is in fact Jewish, my best friend is black, I'm married to a Japanese woman, and as usual, you Liberals are quick to slam anyone who doesn't vote your way. It is not ME leaving the military. There are thousands who are doing it because of this repeal, idiot. You're too blinded by your own self-importance to see it. I have to live it.

Just wait---that will come later---as all liberal policies do---this is just the start regardless of what they try to say it is.

There really is no hold up on gays entering the service. The repeal of DADT is showing its effects already. Military Recruiters are signing up openly gay men and women as we speak.

The men are the first to ship off to boot camp because they already have their sh!t packed. lol.

The time to implement this consists primarily of the need to re-write the portions of the UCMJ that deal with unwanted sexual advances and to cancel or rewrite standing orders and written policies. This is a lot more work than it would seem. The military is still discovering things that must be changed to accommodate women in the military since the line between combat and non-combat assignments has become increasingly difficult to define.

There will also need to be some training for officers and NCO's in how to handle "situations" that will certainly arise. There was a great deal of difficulty around this when women were first coming into serious military positions. The Tailhook Scandal caused the military to have to take a very long, hard look at itself and how it treated women and what was reasonable. But hopefully they learned a lot about how to handle situations that will arise. Essentially there will be no difference between sexual situations for heterosexual and homosexual service members. Unwanted advances will still be unwanted, no will still mean no, partners will still not be allowed to serve together in certain situations, and both raging hormones and developing sexual mores will have to be accounted for.

One serious question is whether or how to reinstate service members already discharged. There are estimated to be around 10,000 discharged men and women whose skills would benefit the military if they were reinstated. That's a lot of people to be processed and evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

In many ways (and I don't mean to trivialize the issue) allowing both women and homosexuals to serve in the military is more difficult than racial integration. So many of the service members are under the age of 26. This is that age at which impulse control and sexuality are generally seen to be "adult." It was tough for men to accept women and it will be tough for some of them to accept gays and bisexuals.

Unlike gender, sexual orientation is a continuum. The existence of 100% purely-oriented homosexuals and heterosexuals is pretty much a myth to psychologists. People's sexual orientation lies somewhere along the continuum --- some are toward one of the scale and some toward the other, but most are somewhere in between (even though individuals seldom see it that way.) What can be 100% one way or the other is sexual activity. Who you choose to go to bed with is just that --- a choice. There are many, many people who are well toward the center of the continuum (which would make them bisexual) in orientation, but have never had sex with a person of the same gender.

The repeal of DADT and what the military has to do is separate the issue of orientation from the issue of activity. And this is not as easy as it sounds.

But like straights, they will act inappropriately and I am glad that gays will face the same standards as straights until the first time, then they will scream discrimination and all will be forgiven.

Chris-749391

The time to implement this consists primarily of the need to re-write the portions of the UCMJ that deal with unwanted sexual advances

UCMJ Article 120 deals with rape and other non-consensual sex, and was rewritten in 2007 to prepare for the repeal of DADT.

Article 125 is a slight issue since it bans all types of sodomy, but that statute hasn't been enforceable for consensual sex since 2003 because of Lawrence v. Texas, absent issues like fraternization.

My question is whether the new Congress will fix Article 125, or just leave it in this awkward state where parts are enforceable and other parts aren't? The Cox Commission has recommended that 125 be repealed entirely, but I suspect there are too many teabaggers in the new House to fix the flaws in the statute.

One serious question is whether or how to reinstate service members already discharged.

The DADT task force recommended that anyone given an honorable discharge under DADT be allowed to reenlist, which is most of the 13,400. There are many more who were discharged under the UCMJ, and they wouldn't be admitted.

i'm tired of hearing all the rightwingers complaining about why obama hasn't done anything about the economy -- amidst something so landmark as true equality for americans. righties -- why don't you ask mcconnel, de mint, boehner, cantor, and the rest of your public servants why they continue to through monkey wrenches into the path of progress. i forget -- the conservatives would rather REgress than PROgress...like the liberals

.will all of the service personnel now on active duty be able to rescind their contracts and leave the service early as this repeal of dadt is pretty much a major change to the original contract.

Just like racial integration was a "major change to the original contract"? Why do you not think DADT was a "major change to the original contract" in 1993?

FYI, the DoD never asks the troops for permission when they change policies, nor is there an opt-out clause when Congress changes the UCMJ. If you don't like it, don't re-enlist. Sounds like you're not good at following orders anyway.

my post was simply a curious question about contract law.

Or rather, a complete miscomprehension of the enlistment contract, and military service in general.

Ken,

Your use of the word “your” is indicative of the fact you were not educated in Alabama which would explain why you are incapable of grasping the irony in your slander.

Hmmm, I see "you are" not the usual uneducated your in place of you're. And is it the fact he didn't use y'all?

Ken---you are the typical liberal/progressive, anytime someone disagress with you the name calling and slander come out. No wonder people like you give the gay community a bad name. Well, actually you give liberals a bad name---but it is just how a majority of lib's are. Liberals are by natural confrontational and will not stand for any other point of view but their own, you a very sad group of people--who by the way are the real bigots.

Ken - read post 1.12 and 7.14 please.

rightiskind: You accuse the liberals and progressives of being rude. Have you and yours ever looked in a mirror. Talk about calling the kettle black.

Rightiskind - don't you have anything original to say?

Labels labels labels labels labels labels.... There - now I have judgementally pointed my finger at whoever on earth doesn't please me or agree with me.

"Liberal/progressive" - whoa - that's scary being called that????? It could also be interpreted as a complement. If you wish to engage in generalities - progressives are not confrontational - they just have this peculiar obssession with the truth and facts and the basic rights this country guarantees. When they hear these things distorted, they question it. It's actually called "rigorous". We respect people who seek truth, not those who blindly accept spin....

Warning People!! Don't you dare state your opinion or some liberal will jump up and start calling you names!! It's the liberal way.

Typical Right wing post. All whine, no substance.

C'mon now. I am from Alabama. And using an accusation of name-calling to conduct name-calling is so second-grade. Just because the state ranks 48th in education does not mean everyone in it is.

@rightiskind:

"typical liberal/progressive"

"slander"

"libs"

"by nature confrontational"

"sad group of people"

"the real bigots"

And you don't see that as name-calling? Kinda twisted logic, doncha think?

Chris: Bigots don't see what they believe as being bigoted. To them it's "right thinking." And pointing out their bigotry for what it is is called "name calling" to those who agree. But they also feel free to "insult" those of us who believe in EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW ... and don't see or notice or care about the obvious hypocrisy and irony of their position. Most of these people also claim to love the Constitution ... as long as they get to interpret it the way THEY want. They also don't understand that telling a group of people they're inferior is contrary to the spirit of the very Constitution (and the country) they claim to love.

Rightiskind,

Apparently Right is "not" so kind. Can I suggest a user name change?

To all the the homophobes on here I can only say if you met me or one of my friends out here in the real world (no computer screen to hide behind) you would keep your opinions to your self or if so foolish to do otherwise you wouldn't last two minutes before saying "uncle" on the floor. I've know people like you all my life and you're typically cowards and lightweights. Most are by male standards unattractive and have no attraction for me or any other self respecting Gay man - the women are shrill! All in all these people only feel good about themselves, of any value or important when putting other people down. What a sad bunch of yahoos!

C'mon now. I am from Alabama......

Not all bigots are from Alabama, but I wonder why it took them so long to fix their racist constitution......33 years after the ban on mixed-race marriages was found unconstitutional.

But don't mind me - I'm from Wisconsin, where we recently enshrined homophobia in our constitution.....

Tank, the first round is on me and bring all of your friends. I salute you.

<i>What a victory??? WTF??? So what happens when child molesters want to be "FREE" to chase their dreams? Or beastiality lovers want their "FREEDOM"?

Again I ask- why are we celebrating sexual deviancy?

wrong, wrong, wrong!</i>

Since when do children and animals have the same cognition as adult humans?

Why are you celebrating self-inflicted stupidity?

Hey Tank,

First off I think homophobe is an overly used blanket description and probably doesn't apply to even HALF of those whom do not support everything gay with bells and whistles. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't necessarilly mean they are afraid of it, that's for sure. Libtards have the same all trigger words to call someone when they don't agree with them. Don't agree with me? Even if it's respectfully? I am gonna call you this so you will shutup, gay agenda 101.

I feel people should have the right to do what they want, I don't have to like it or think it's awesome, it's none of my business. I don't harass or bad mouth anyone, even if I think something is weird and not quite right. That being said, if in fact we did have a conversation (highly unlikely) I would gladly express my views RESPECTFULLY, as I do here. I agree there are plenty of keyboard warriors whom wouldn't say anything of the sort in person. But if you had an issue with me not thinking gay is the new black, well then I would definitely be your huckleberry with the extensive training that I have, tough guy.

Tim-1807646

First off I think homophobe is an overly used blanket description and probably doesn't apply to even HALF of those whom do not support everything gay with bells and whistles

Seems pretty simple Tim - if you think gays don't deserve equal treatment under our secular law, you're a homophobic bigot. Anyone who thinks any American should be a 2nd-class citizen is definitely a bigot.

Definition of "bigot" - "A person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief or opinion." Definition of "homophobic" - having a FEAR of homosexuality". I am a Christian. I am intolerant of accepting homosexuality. You are a homosexual. You are intolerant of Christian beliefs. How do you solve such a dilemma? I guess, if you're like Tank, you'll just beat us up, and when you win, we'll suddenly change our beliefs. If you think like skrekk, you'll think outside reality, call us a bunch of names, and THAT will make us change all our beliefs.

I, in fact, DO think ALL people have the same freedoms in the US, not as gays, but as AMERICAN CITIZENS. You people are chasing up the wrong tree to gain your equality. I, as many of my friends, would support you if you demanded your rights as an American citizen, but not when you push for equality because you're gay. You already have laws that protect you. Agreed, there are some people that ARE bigots, homophobic, even though you're a citizen, and THAT'S where the push for equality should be. Marching down the street in my town in your underpants in a "gay pride parade" will never convince me to accept your lifestyle.

Somehow, we all must learn to live in the same place, without stepping on each other's toes. I want to keep reading my Bible, living my life as I see fit. You want to live your life as you see fit. When you step on my toes, and TELL me I HAVE to accept your lifestyle, why don't you realize you'll get resistance? In order for you to get your equality, you take mine away.

Bill-328037

I am a Christian. I am intolerant of accepting homosexuality.

Good for you! Just remember, your cult and your Christian Sharia law is your problem, not mine and not the governments. Your religion is for you, not for anyone else.

And all US laws must have a secular, not a religious purpose. FYI, in the very recent past Christians used their bibles to support slavery, and to deny mixed-race marriages. They used the government to impose their Sharia law on everyone, and to enforce their bigotry. They were wrong in the exact same way you are wrong.

You are a homosexual. You are intolerant of Christian beliefs.

Actually I'm straight - I just believe in our constitution. You clearly do not.

Gays have sex the same way as heterosexual couples.....in other words both lifestyles practice both oral and anal sex. You might not personally, but many gay couples don't practice anal sex either. As far as getting head in the showers, just because someone no longer lies about their lifestyle does not mean that he/she is going to be "going after" all of the other men/women in his/her unit.

You are a name-calling child.

I'm sure that having sex in the showers violates any number of military rules, none of which are changed by the repeal of DADT.

I'm assuming you are straight, and assuming that your ignorant self could get a date, would you have sex at work? No, hetero couples don't have sex at work and neither do homosexual couples. You are so bigoted that you don't see that they are just like us hetero couples they just have partners of the same rather than opposite sex.

Why everybody seems to believe that this is an "OPEN SEASON" for gays for getting "somebody"...????

Is simply that EVERYBODY is equal under the Constitution and the Law and there will be no restrictions based on sexual orientation.

In combat, and when the bullets starts flying I won't ask the person who covers my back if he/she is gay or straight.

Happy Holidays

SEMPER FI

NY workingmom---you are a very bigoted person. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them wrong---hate to tell you liberals this but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it's OK if it is different from your's. But as usual--your liberal self just can't help but insult someone with a different view than yours--please try to stop the hate you have in your heart.

Rightiskind--

First, as I said before I'm not a liberal! Second, you're right everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But when that opinion consists of nothing but slander and jabs about head in the shower I also have the right to point out how ignorant it is. I have no hate in my heart, all of you gay bashing homophobes are the ones full of hate and bigotry.

Rightiskind - Haven't you figured it out yet? Hate isn't hate, racism isn't racism, sexist bigotry isn't bigotry, and stupidity isn't stupid if liberals do it.

C'mon - get with the PC program before they stone you!

Postal,

Newsflash for you: soldiers aren't going to be sneaking around and having sex in their tents at night. There is still the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) that punishes sexual conduct while on duty. It remainsin effect no matter what the sexual orientation our troops. Anyone caught getting head or giving head in the shower, be it man or woman, straight or gay, would be subject to the same punishment. These regulations already exist. The repeal of DADT doesn't mean that gays will be able to have sex anytime they want or with anyone they want.

Will there be some who break the rules? Yes. They will be dealt with accordingly. I've served overseas and on two naval ships and have seen the results of fraternization between men and women. It happens and is punished when discovered. There would be no different standard with homosexuals.

Soldiers on the front lines are more worried about hot food, hot water, and not getting shot in the head or having an IED blow their limbs off. They're worried about accomplishing the mission and getting back home, not about how they're going to get off.

Nyworkingmom is right.

Anyone who wants to control the sex lives of others, and who questions our gay troops, who passed training and are putting their lives on the line to defend the US/Americans, is a BIGOT.

Or they have mental/psycological problems and/or aren't comfortable with their own sexuality.

Military code still stands and will be followed by all honorable service members(gays included).

NYworkingmom---I haven't wrote anything slamming gays at all---how ignorant of you to assume I have. I have reread your posts and they do contain hateful and mean comments, sorry but it's true, please look before you bash someone like me who has NEVER bashed gays or lesbians---in my opinion acting out on your gay tendencies is wrong--being gay--that is not wrong--all people should be treated equal---even those with a differing opinions than yours.

from dictionary.com:

big·ot

   /ˈbɪgət/ Show Spelled[big-uht] Show IPA

–noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

I'm pretty tolerant of your OPINION. You can think whatever your little heads come up with. What I DON'T like is you shoving the consequences of your opinion down MY throat. That's the same bigotry you profess to hate.
I see as much liberal bigotry here as I do other. You're a bunch of short sighted, narrow minded hypocrites just like those you are calling bigots.

posttal, Gays were serving in the military already. This law is only making it that people in the military can say "Yes I'm Gay" and not get kicked out.

That's that's the only difference.

Everyones fears about Gays serving openly in the military is all a bunch of unproven non-sense.

Rightiskind: But right now you are calling NYworking mom ignorant. So how are you any different from those you chastise?

rightiskind-

So is your opinion that the people who speak against DADT repeal have a right to an opinion, but I don't because I'm in favor of the repeal? I'm not quite following you here. Your logic says everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if that opinion isn't the same as yours it doesn't apply? Just trying to figure this out. You keep saying that everyone deserves to speak their opinion but yet everytime I do you tell me that I'm being a bigot because I didn't agree with the guy who was talking about "guys getting up the butt in tents" or "getting head in the shower".

verno,

rightiskind is having slight difficulty living up to his/her choosen user name. He/she hasn't quite learned the difference of having an opinion, and not agreeing with someone, and spewing hate and indifference towards a person/group because they may be different than you.

NYworkingmom1.

You are not allowed an opinion. By doing so, it automatically makes you a freethinker, I mean bigot.

Have a nice day.

Everyone is allowed an opinion, but facts are facts. Ignorance of gays and opinion are all i read on here, it is sad and disgusting all the hatred on here. I hate some groups too but i do not wish to lock up people in camps or deny them rights, i just ignore them and move on with my existence.

Misinformation is what is destroying our country, not the libs or conservatives, rich or poor but the mass amounts of willful ignorance and made up BS. Facts are stubborn things. Dont be shocked, but the earth DOES revolve around the sun and is 3.7 billion years old, no matter how much you want to convince yourself otherwise. Same thing with gays.

D_Loominator

I'm pretty tolerant of your OPINION. You can think whatever your little heads come up with. What I DON'T like is you shoving the consequences of your opinion down MY throat. That's the same bigotry you profess to hate.

I suspect the KKK was similarly upset when the army was integrated, as they felt the "black agenda" was being stuffed down their throats.

No one cares about your personal views of gays but if you want to deny equal treatment under the law to a class of persons, you're definitely a bigot.

To all the the homophobes on here I can only say if you met me or one of my friends out here in the real world (no computer screen to hide behind) you would keep your opinions to your self or if so foolish to do otherwise you wouldn't last two minutes before saying "uncle" on the floor. I've know people like you all my life and you're typically cowards and lightweights. Most are by male standards unattractive and have no attraction for me or any other self respecting Gay man - the women are shrill! All in all these people only feel good about themselves, of any value or important when putting other people down. What a sad bunch of yahoos!

Shrek

It's not equal treatment. It's preferred treatment. Lie to your fan base. You are guilty of that which you claim to hate. Thus YOU"RE THE BIGOT.

@skrekk says,

if you want to deny equal treatment under the law to a class of persons, you're definitely a bigot.

News flash - various classes of people are constantly discriminated against under the law and by the laws. For example - felons, those who have declared bankruptcy, those of certain age (I wanted a driver's license at age 12, but the law discriminated against me), those with or without certain educational background, those of certain height (you must be this tall), and thousands of other 'classes'. There are a few classes that are legally protected from discrimination, but many more that are not. So everyone, individually and collectively, constantly denies equal treatment to various classes of people.

The shower argument always cracks me up. In the BCT I went to, you got three minutes to shower and you were more worried about getting the soap out of your hair in time rather than forming a relationship with the woman next to you.

mailman8

various classes of people are constantly discriminated against under the law and by the laws

And those laws have a rational basis for that discrimination, with a clear secular purpose.

Your homophobic bigotry does not.

"NYworkingmom---I haven't wrote anything slamming gays at all---how ignorant of you to assume I have. I have reread your posts and they do contain hateful and mean comments, sorry but it's true, please look before you bash someone like me who has NEVER bashed gays or lesbians---in my opinion acting out on your gay tendencies is wrong--being gay--that is not wrong--all people should be treated equal---even those with a differing opinions than yours."

if you could read, yes i'm insulting you, you would have known that workingmom was actually talking about the opening poster which did bash homosexuals.

"Lets not tell the world that our army is comprised of guys that will take it up the butt in there tents at night" -- That isn't meant to be anything but derogatory, likewise, its wrong; many countries, including Israel, have already allowed homosexuals into their military and don't care what others think about how other people have sex. It also implies the only way to have sex with a woman is vaginal. Sorry if you feel igornace is something blessed, it isn't. Its too easy to open up Google and search up something you're confused about.

@D-loominator: Right, because DADT didn't set up a precedent to discriminate when discrimination wasn't needed, because gays are allowed to marry world over, because homosexuals are in the majority, because heterosexuality is a sin in major religions, mistranslation in at least one, but the point still stands, because there are laws against consensual vaginal sex. When was the last time someone beat you for having sex with a woman consensually? When did someone consider you "evil" for having sexual lusts towards women?

and homosexuals are the one's preferred? Sure, dude, keep lying to yourself. Try a couple of thousand years of the aforementioned then come back and talk about things being forced down your throat.

To Whom It Concerns - Your account is brand new. That means you are part and parcel to the propaganda act trying to justify this PC tyranny. Who are you really? Why do you have to have multiple accounts? How many different names have you posted under in this thread? Are you really THAT desperate to prove your indefensable position? Come clean.

What does any of that has to do with the arguments in question? Do you know? How is the position indefensible, especially when you don't make any arguments to the contrary and resort to worrying about the identity of some stranger over the internet?

D_Loominator is apparently unable to make an argument, so he makes an ad hominem attack.

To Whom It Concerns - First, I am stating without equivocation that making up multiple identities in order to increase your posts incognito is unethical, cowardly, and dishonest. It's like stuffing a ballot box. That belittles you in my eyes regardless of the argument at hand.

If you could read, Yes, I'm insulting you. This is a DIRECT attack separate and apart from the remainder of this discussion. Please attempt to justify yourself, unless you lack the fortitude or intellect to do so.

Second, all of what you wrote @ me describes (somewhat melodramatically I might add) world conditions which, though they may warrant discussion on their own, are at best tangential to the points that I made. For my arguments about homosexuality, see post 1.11. As for my "preferred status" comment, I was directly implicating liberal "political correctness". PC attitude is basically that anything a homosexual does should be accepted and tolerated as natural, normal, and socially acceptable. I take issue with that.

I don't think that public "flaming faggot" bitchy behavior is appropriate or acceptable. It's about as distracting as someone with Tourette syndrome at an opera. It is unnatural, pretentious, and somewhat indicative of mental illness separate and apart from the sexuality issue. I don't even think that bitchy behavior is acceptable or appropriate when WOMEN do it, and they have immense amounts of estrogen to blame. Nor do I think I should be forced to take a kindly attitude to the prospect of a man putting his penis in another man's rectum. I don't care for the Mexican "mule with a woman" shows or a woman having sex with a 13 year old either. Say what you want, it's just not right. Furthermore, I WOULD be offended by being in a room with 3 homos talking about how big the penis they had last night was.

For example, someone masturbating 20 times a day would not be normal. But it is none of my business if he does it in private. Just don't force me to lie in a bedroom or shower with him. Nor should I have to tolerate him and his buddies conversing about how to do it (Lotions, liver, both hands, feet, humping a doorknob, whatever) while I'm there. And DON'T make ME pay for his lotion.

I don't think you should be harassed, ostracized, beaten, or jailed for what you are or what you do with a consenting adult in a private setting. But don't tell me I am wrong or bigoted because I don't like it, or that I should fully and unequivocally accept it and all of it's consequences. Don't tell me I have to change MY lifestyle in order to accommodate YOUR perversion. Nor should you and your ilk force all of these issues into a military environment in a desperate attempt to think of yourselves as more normal. You won't be normal regardless of whether you get in the army, marry each other, or force others to shut up about your abnormality while you do little gay dances in their face.

Another issue is whether or not this is a civil rights issue. I do not believe it is. If it is, then vegetarians should be able to force the military to feed them tofu and artichoke hearts every day, geniuses could force everyone talking to them to use 4 syllable words, and single people should stop paying taxes for public schools. It is a lifestyle choice driven by genetic propensities. So is about 95% of ALL human behavior. PCers have FORCED it into the civil rights arena in order to shove it down the country's throat (just like they do with everything else they want).

Also I am not PERSONALLY responsible for the attitudes, laws, and discrimination of the rest of the world. Nor am I capable of doing anything about your homophobia phobia. Might I suggest a psychologist that may help you accept and deal with your abnormal genetic propensities. I have my own problems to deal with (not the least of which is the ability to see through YOUR sorry a$$ and guts enough to speak to the issue regardless of political correctness).

Tankette,

You sure talk a lot of smack from behind that keyboard. Until you've done what I've done, been where I've been, and gone through the hell that I've gone through, you have nothing worthwhile to say. It would take you and 10 friends to take someone like me down. You dance with words while my Army family and I get sent out to kill terrorists. When we come home to find normal jobs, we find that we're not wanted anywhere.

Since troops get thrown into a closet and forgotten when they're not needed, how about you go BACK into your closet and let the world forget you permanently...that would be equality. You do that to us, so return the favor.

And yet you took the time to say it "ain't worth a comment".

And the word "ain't" says a lot now, doesn't it?

Sorry kids--Joe is right, all this is a celebration of nothing. Clinton should have never signed it into law---and he's your hero---nuff said.

Last time I look ain't is in the dictionary

mohwak,

"ain't" a deep south contraction for am not. I "ain't" going to eat them possom yuns gathered by the crick for brekfast maw.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am from the south. Virginia/Georgia. I have earned the right to make fun of my homeland. lol

Obviously, this article was worth at least two comments from you!

LOL, spending a lot of time commenting on something that ain't worht commenting on. Sad little man.

smwboxer and Barry---even sadder is the fact you both had to comment to Joe's non-comment. Now that's LOL!

*fapfapfapfapfapfap*

righiskind,

Might be sad, as I also put my 2 cents in, but nothing like keeping it entertaining and light occasionally.

Billeting issues should be no more of a problem than they are right now. Get with the times Mr. Retired. Just because someone can now be more open about who they have relationships with does not mean that they are suddenly going to be going after every heterosexual in the billet. It simple means that they no longer have to hide their partnerships, communicate in code with that person, or be forbidden from being seen off to war, etc. by their partner.

Appears as though you fall into the "never served" catagory. It's not a matter of labeling anyone a sexual predator, it's a matter of whether or not a heterosexual will have a choice of not billeting with a gay. Or whether gays should be allowed to billet together. Should heterosexual males and females then be allowed to billet together? It comes down to military order and discipline, and it is not going to be easy to implement. That point shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to comprehend, no matter which side of the issue you support.

Believe it on or not, gay are more than able to control thier sexual feelings and billet with other men and women. I did and many others have. I did get approached by a few so called "straight" guys with the "no one has to know" request though. In all cases, I was the one that sent them away.

smwboxer that is completely false. Gays are notorious for lashing out at any rejection. When I served in California I was overwhelmed by the amount of times a gay guy groped me after I told him to go away. I couldn't even goto a beach without some gay trying to cop a free feel. And statistically, gays are 4 times more likely to kill their so-called "life partner".

So, what if it is difficult? Change usually is, that's why so many are often oppossed to it. But, where would our country be if we hadn't tackled difficult issues?

al-387397 if any woman could count on six sets of hands how many times she has been groped by men in public places, she'd still be way below the count. You are a liar as far as how many times you've been groped by a male. I have the feeling you wished it were true.

SMWBOXER so what makes a gay person so much better than a straight guy that he is able to control his sexual urges toward a man but a straight guy is not trusted to shower and live with women because he is unable to control his urges?