Thats what the American people voted for....... a review and snatching of the parts that dont work. Remember in the words of your immortal leader "no president should take a shellacking like that"

Agree, total waste of time.

And the rhetoric, "Promise to the people of America" What s— t. The best we can hope for is that these 'New' Representatives don't continue the killing off of the Middle Class that we saw during the Bush debacle.

No that is not what the American people voted for JoePeep, They voted the Repugs in to create jobs and wasting weeks for theatre is a joke on us all.

The heath care bill needs adjusting for sure but total repeal is not what most want. I like many aspects of this bill and so do many Americans. But this is not the most important legislation now is it?? It will not happen anyways.

I would like them create some jobs for a change instead of pushing the outsourcing policies for which they are famous for, remember the bill last October they [Republicans] refused to end several months ago.

You know the Bill to end the incentives $$$$$$ corporations get for closing American factories??

Each member voting to repeal should turn down their government ins. and pay for their own.

Each member voting for repeal should remember that they are voting for an action that the voters in November said they wanted. The voters wanted it killed and that's the way the members should vote.

Apparently the voters didnt want it repealed or they would have put enough repubs in the senate to get it done.

Gary, no where on my ballot in november did it ask about health care reform!!!

I think the election was about JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!

The elections were also so close no one has a mandate here.

I have been thinking same. Angent Orange where are the JOBS! Repeal of this law with really screw us. This bill is paying for itself bit by bit which was why it was set up for somethings to happen now & then better things through several years. It will not add a penny to said deficit. That is all lies stacked upon lies. But who cares right? The real truth has become the new lie! Ignorance must really be bliss after all huh?

What a total waste of time and taxpayers money.

I propose that if they submit for repeal at least 20 laws a day, this would be an excellent use of taxpayer money.

Failing that, paying the Congressmen to sit around and drink beer all day would be the next best thing. At least they won't pass the 14,645th federal law that costs us millions.

Actually, here's the breakdown:

1. Congress gets paid regular salary to do what they've always done: submit endless more "legislation".

2. Congress gets paid 10 times salary to do nothing all day. They submit no new legislation. The taxpayer will also spring for their 6 month vacations, along with their entire staff.

3. Congress gets paid 50 times salary, and vacations 11 months out of the year. The only requirement: during the one month they are in session, they repeal 1,000 laws.

America's taxpayers would make out like bandits with #2 or #3.

Some of you are seeing the twist in the Republicans words. They ran on jobs and decreasing the deficit.

Repealing this does neither.

It's interesting how voter mandates seem to only start in 2010. In 2008 Obama ran, and was elected on a platform of enacting health reform. He did so. This should be no surprise to anyone. But for some reason, only the Republicans who want to repeal healthcare are supposed to have got a mandate, Obama didn't.

And as was pointed out earlier, the American people didn't actually put enough Republican Senators into the Senate to repeal healthcare; they only put in enough Republicans into the House to allow the Republicans do start the year by enacting voting stunts that have no chance of going anywhere.

Hey Rickeroo: When are you going to get your head out of your ass?

Why do some people view the government as this existential entity out there sucking up our money? In fact, the government is a long list of programs and services that WE THE PEOPLE have told--demanded--our elected representatives that WE THE PEOPLE want.

So, repealing 20 laws a day, that's just going to piss off all of those people, i.e. voters, that wanted those laws (programs and services). In other words, a WASTE OF TIME.

Oh, I'm sure that Rickeroo doesn't want any of the laws THAT HE LIKES repealed. Only those that he doesn't. Well, the same could be said for everyone else.

How about we all grow up a little and deal with reality? The failure to do so has led us to where we are right now.

For 2 years all I've heard from the left is how much the democratically controlled House has accomplished- 400+ bills sent to the Senate where they died a slow death, either not being called to a vote by Dingy Harry or being shot out of the water if they did make it to a vote. I'm told I should celebrate their stunning accomplishments in passing so much legislation even though that legislation has gone basically nowhere. SO why is it now that the republican controlled House, bringing something to a vote that is likely to die a slow death in the Senate is suddenly a waste of taxpayers time and money and they should just leave it alone? A majority of the American public opposed the health care legislation as passed and despite our best efforts to convince our elected representatives of our objections, they pushed forward anyway, insisting that they know better than we do what we want. I don't care if you opposed the legislation because you thought it went too far or you didn't think it went far enough, the point to me is that this was not the right piece of legislation to pass. I would much rather see the House bring it to a vote and get 435 voices on record for where they stand nearly 1 year after it was passed. Given the new make up of the Senate, it's not impossible that there might be enough sway to move the bill forward there. If not, at least it lets we, the voters, know where our representatives fall on the issue- lots of new faces, many who ran with this as a platform of choice, I want to see where they really stand when it comes to a vote.

If the Republicans can actually submit a better bill, then I would support a repeal. But the 'Replace' part should be simultaneous. In the unlikely event they could repeal this healthcare law, there is no way they could get a new one passed later. They certainly wouldn't do it in the runup to the 2012 election. So then we end up with nothing - including the good parts of the current bill, like the inability of insurance companies to deny coverage based on preexisting conditions, increased enforcement power given to state insurance regulators, true market-based pricing through exchanges, etc.

I agree this bill is an unpleasant compromise for everyone - remember that liberals originally wanted single-payer. But I see it as the first of many steps. The next step is not to go back to square one.

I love when Dems, Socialists, Communists and other left wing moonbats (all pretty much synonymous terms) accuse Republicans of "wasting time on this when they should be focused on jobs." It just cracks me up! What the hell have Pelosi and her band of evil idiots been doing for two years? I'll tell you! Exactly that! Wasting time on shoving this ridiculous, ludicrous, unconstitutional travesty of a health care bill down the throats of the American people! I don't think the Republicans trying to undo this mess is exactly a "waste of time".

This is where the GOP excels: Lots of rhetoric, no action, except pandering to huge multi-national corporations.

@Mike: Turn off Fox News and you might reawaken your ability to see past the labels.

The House can and will choke off funding.

Checks and balances.....ever heard of them?

nredq:

Why do some people view the government as this existential entity out there sucking up our money?

Goldwater ran on my platform in 1964 (no new laws, just repeal). Granted, 1964's government was a fraction of today's. Not many people signed on, and he was soundly defeated by LBJ, who gave the people The Great Society, bribing them with their own money.

Government has less room to grow now, and "Any legislation is good legislation" is becoming less popular, as people start to wonder why we need new laws year after year after year.

We pay for them.

Gary...You say you trust your insurance agent...Even when it plays fast and loose with the money you pay in premiums? And what happens when they invest in risky ventures that go sour? Your premiums increase? Your copays double? You get dropped from the insurance? Come on ...let's hear it from a Big Insurance supporter.

mike-1125760 - ...

I agree this bill is an unpleasant compromise for everyone - remember that liberals originally wanted single-payer. But I see it as the first of many steps. The next step is not to go back to square one.

That sums it up for me!

Nope...Wrong again. The Republicans are planning to carry out what Bush intended all along...to allow Wall Street to manage your healthcare. The Republicans will push anything that provides slush money for more risky investing by Wall Street gamblers. Investing is supposed to be long term. But the secret behind shoving healthcare into the hands of Wall Street gamblers will result in more Americans without adequate healthcare and the Republicans will dance on the graves of those who die without it. After all, let's not pretend that a death of any number of Americans means more profit for Wall Street, doesn't it?

Joe....What's ignorant is your claim that this healthcare reform is costing employers more...BS. and you know it. My employer is dancing a jig now that his healthcare insurance costs are down. In fact, he gave us all a bonus for Christmas now that he has a little extra money.

The only small businesses that hate this healthcare reforms are the contractors who don't hire Americans because 90% of their workers are illegals ...anything to put more money in their pockets..never but never dump the gas guzzlers though right? I know all about small business contractors in this country. I worked with them for more then 2 decades. Most of them are shysters who try to cut corners on substandard equipment and pay dirt wages. But mmmmmm boy...do they love to stuff their own pockets. That's why they all see healthcare reform as "force". They don't want to have to operate their businesses ethically. Unethically is more profitable...Yeah..that's what Madoff thought too.

"....accuse Republicans of attempting to retain only the parts of the legislation that may be popular with voters."

That's a powerful Democrat accusation. How dare the Republicans listen to the voters.

really thats funny because my two provider raised raised rates about $1500 per employee.

ewent has no clue and never will

What a total waste of time

This is what the voters said they wanted in November when they threw out 63 Democrats. The real waste of time is the first two years the Democrats spent on passing this bill which nobody wanted while ignoring the economy. The economy will take care of itself as long as the Democrats have no power to stall recovery anymore. Cap and trade is dead. Obama agrees with Bush on tax cuts. No more new taxes and regulations. Clinton spent his last two years chasing fat interns and the economy boomed. Obama should do the same and let adults handle the running of the country.

probably does not realize that her employer dropped coverage so employees can fend for themselves. Maybe that Christmas bonus was to help them pay higher individual rates.

nresq.actually I think you missed it a bit..congress has created the items they now want to cut or cut out completely are items they created themselves...this all started after the depression...and it is a way to control the people as it were ...what you miss is that our elected collect thousands of dollars from lobbyist that tell these congressional leaders how to vote, and they do. I have not seen writtten anywhere that the republicans have a better idea for health care...or a better idea on anything that is not costing the tax payers more money. I have to give Obama credit, he had an idea for health care and went after it...his problem however is that congress and lobbyist are very very tight...and that out does what ever comes out of that "honest" group of elected. Consider that for the health cre bill there are no cost controls writen into it anywhere...there are none on medicare...you can thank lobbyist for the majority of our problems..they . congress, deregulated the banking system..and it failed..and no controls have been placed back on banking at all..even though they said they would do so...

Thank you Jesus!

Instead of wasting valuable time beating a dead horse, wouldn't it be wiser for the GOP to form a committee to examine the health care bill, item by item, and submit a report to the House for consideration? It would free up the House to address other, more important things like JOBS! But I guess they haven't got any ideas there either. God forbid they have to say that everything that can be done is being done. It's a lot easier to sit back with your arms folded across your chest and say no, no, NO! This repeal is just a stall! They don't have a clue how to fix things that they have been criticising and they will NEVER admit that what is being done just might be the only thing that can be done!

PK,

why didn't the Republicans do it DURING the negotiations with the Democrats? They pretty much got what they asked for.

Where does this notion that everything is compartmentalized come from? He healthcare bill does directly impact jobs, especially for small businesses- I've seen it first hand in the 20 person firm I work for. Virtually everything proposed in the last 2 years has had an impact on jobs- some positive, mostly negative- any time you grow the size of government, increase the cost of doing business, alter the tax structure, ANYTHING, it affects jobs. And the best thing the congress could do to impact job creation is to stay as far out of the business of creating jobs as humanly possible! Stop interfering and let the private sector do what it does best! They've taken positive steps in maintaining tax levels and reducing the employee Social Security tax- for the record, I think the SS tax is positively moronic for it's long term effect but for the short term it should help to increase spending in the market place which is what we need to see in order for demand to go up and jobs to bounce back. We'll pay for it later but it should have a positive impact now which isn't all bad.

Thank you, Jesus!

And large companies are sitting on a record amount of cash and not hiring which hurt small business. These companies have held us hostage until we gave them back their de-regulator Republicans.

The we'll pay it later got us into this situation. The 2% reduction to SS will amount to 20-50 bucks a pay check. I plan to put mine into my 401K not the marketplace. The days of spend because you have it are over.

Big Republican lies: That all of the people now able to be insured who have existing conditions will somehow cost Big Insurance more. Good. I'm glad. And, if the Democrats are smart, their next move should be to repeal the 85% HMOs get from premiums which still leaves them 15% profit to invest in high risk Wall Street investments. That's should be increased from 85% to 100%. HMOs are NOT in the business of investments. They are supposed to use the premiums they get FOR HEALTHCARE. Why they hell are they allowed to invest it? It's not their money. It's ours. The Republicans are becoming the party of liars if they think this one gets past anyone who has had to deal with how HMOs use their profits. And, for the healthcare reform bashers, how about you start reducing the salaries of those hundred billions the HMO CEOs are earning? Where the hell do you think that money comes from if not the rejections of claims and other manipulations that allow them to keep more and increase claims?

""A real showdown could occur if the House Republicans attempt to use the appropriation process to deny funding to the Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of the Treasury for implementing the health reform law.""

They should position Obamacare as a fetus in its first, second, or third trimester needing to be aborted. You'll get more Left Wing Liberal Wack Jobs on board that way. Never met a Left Wing Liberal Wack Job that didn't like/want/need to vote in support of abortions.

If that fails definately use the purse strings. That's well within their Constitutional mandate.

Svenolafson...I never met a right winger extremist who didn't think bringing more babies in the world they can't feed or provide for without government assistance is their right and due. Funny thing though, if right wingers are so anti-abortion, how is it they don't care much about the already born?

ewent,

"Svenolafson...I never met a right winger extremist who didn't think bringing more babies in the world"

Damn! I guess the abortionists missed one!

"I put mine in a 401k and not the marketplace".

This is why we don't let liberals run the country. Just where do you think the money that goes into a 401k goes?

It is used to fund something. The return you get is the price someone else had to pay to use the money in your 401k. To pay you back, they will have to produce a good or service and sell that in the MARKETPLACE.

The only way to not put your money in the marketplace would be to just hold it in cash, or a non interest checking account.

Swenolafason...yes...and you know who that is don't YOU? Must have hit a nerve with a right winger. They always get all snarky and snarly when they know they've been proven wrong. And yessssirrrrreeee I love it.

RyaninTX...That's what I used to think happened with 401Ks. As you know, most employer provided 401Ks are chosen by the employers and there's little wiggle room for employees to change the plans. But, the reality is that your 401K money doesn't go into individual companies at all. It goes into a mutual fund comprised of a number of companies. That means that it can be invested into up to let's say 10 companies who may or may not be producing at top dollar value. Even if one of the 10 isn't doing well, you take that loss. And, the usual ritual for Wall Street is if one of the companies in a mutual fund goes belly up, the rest start to sell and you have the kind of meltdown we had in 2008. In good times, if all 10 companies in a mutual fund do well, you're okay. In austere economic times, many of the companies profits earn little or nothing that enhances your 401K. Worse is what happens if any of your stock happens to be in a company playing fast and loose with your payroll deductions for 401K as Enron did.

Evelyn, can you explain why these large companies you accuse of hoarding their cash instead of hiring should be hiring and producing more product when demand is down? This is the big puzzle piece so many seem to be missing- there is no need to produce more than you can sell in today's market place- it's been years since most manufacturing companies have produced and stored much in the way of excess inventory. For parts manufacturers, the liability of stored goods is too high- if you produce 100,000 of Widget A as inventory and the product that used Widget A goes out of production, the Widget company takes a HUGE loss on a product they can't sell. Manufacturing produces what they can sell and little more. So when demand is down across the board, they aren't going to ramp up production just to give people jobs!

Suzy...Can you explain why if these companies are not producing they are increasing their prices? Shouldn't the loss of demand decrease prices? Or is this another greed angle they play so well? Corporations are sitting of hundreds of billions of dollars because they refuse to use what's left of capital assets to insure their own salaries are safe. No other reason. They know Americans are out of work and can't buy their goods at the prices they want to sell them. That's why President Obama was trying to work out a fairer trade agreement with China this year.

Next...these companies no longer need Americans to buy their products. Now that they helped to increase and stabilize economies in Mexico, China and India, the people of those countries can afford to buy US imports. So, these companies stockpile their goods here and then ship on an as needed basis to foreign countries. And, let's not pretend that with a 72% drop in US manufacturing, need our goods. Most of these countries produce what they need.

Seems to me when there is a glut of goods not selling you lower prices...not raise them.

Suzy I can field that one for Ewent

The US money supply has doubled in the last 12 years.

In reality, our money is worth less to those that sell us the commodities that businesses need to make things or provide services.

Fuel and energy are a big one, and that has gone way up in those 12 years.

In short, the cost of doing business in the US is higher than it was. The healthscare plan is a great example, as for every additional employee a company has, the burden of it goes up.

Why would a business want to hire more people that may just end up being a costly liability due to Gov't imposed costs?

Businesses are not stupid. They see how Massachusetts adopted the obamacare plan, and now has the highest medical insurance rates in the country.

So in a system like that, instead of hiring more people, you will want to have the minimum number to get the job done.

I would also think that it will be the tipping point for purchases of automated systems (robots) that were previously more expensive than humans. Now you will have to factor in more expensive medical insurance in the US, vs. automated or foreign labor.

Ryan, Dont bother ewent wont listen to a thing you say. He /She/It is a liberal troll and probably has a Pelosi bobble head doll in his bedroom for gratification purposes.

Ryan, thank God someone else gets it.

Every time I read something from ewent I am more and more convinced he or she has no real world experience to speak from, at least not with the inner workings of a small business. Not that mine is by any means the be all and end all experience but I've been part of the "hire or not" process in my firm and know that cost of insurance was a major driving factor- we dodged a bullet this year, thankfully only a 6% increase so I was able to keep the same plan in place for my staff but that was only because when we changed companies last year we were rated up because of some pre-existing conditions, a couple of changes in staff and a lower than expected cost ratio moved us in 2 tiers up the scale to a better overall rate- and that still came with a 6% increase. My husband works for a 5 man HVAC outfit- they had a 38% rate increase and had to change our coverage as a result. They have more than enough business to hire at least one or 2 more people but the cost to do so would do the business more harm than good at this point.

Ewent, I know this is futile but I'll try anyway. When demand is down, you decrease production (at least anyone I know in the manufacturing industry has as much as said there is no such thing as a glut of inventory- they're producing what they can sell right now and no more). When you decrease production, you order smaller quantities of the raw materials/parts that go into manufacturing whatever widget it is you produce. When you order smaller quantities, the cost per unit is generally higher. Add in increased energy costs, increased insurance costs, etc, and you get a higher cost of production. Any company worth its salt is going to pass along the higher costs to the end consumer or there is little to no profit involved and without profit, there is no point in staying in business. Yes, there are many companies who are in it for profits above all else but there are many more who would love to hire more workers and see their communities thrive again but without the demand, they can't do it.

To say this is anything other than political grandstanding is disingenuous. If they were serious, they would include a bill that clearly states their alternative.

Total waste of time, and OUR money, much like the (partial) reading of the Constitution.

Ryan in Texas- My health care has been rising rapidly since W became POTUS. It has nothing to do with ROMNEY's mandated insurance for citizens of Massachusetts. The insurance companys have to make back all the money that they paid out for Katrina, and in order to destroy Congress's health care reform; they MUST increase our premiums. As for Texas, I would not brag about not having health insurance for 75% of your population. Not really something to brag about.

Insurance companies have found a great way to advertise the fact that they are not raising premiums. They drop coverage! A company that 5 years ago covered eye care, dental, hearing no longer has those LUXURIES covered. But they havent raised their premiums. How stupid do they think we are? The American public is watching like they've never watched before! Skippy poeanut butter raised their price for a smaller amount. Jif kept their price the same for the same amount. Which would you buy? People are doing the same with health, automobile, and home insurance! We are comparing prices and coverage. May the smart , honest, company win!
PS. I wonder how many people actually know what the new health care bill says, have read it, and know when changes take affect?

Correct, I hear people saying this wont affect us for years. Ding Ding Ding, Ive already received a letter from my wifes supplemental coverer and they are NOT renewing her policy. The reason, the new health plan wants to push her to Medicare, where as it was explained to her yesterday by her primary care Dr. that she will have to submit to a treatment review by a "panel" of doctors to make sure her treatment is a good use of government healthcare dollars. I can and have been paying this for years, why change it now. Her Dr. is a very positive man, but even he doesnt trust this gov. review and see's trouble ahead.

Joe, are you saying a private insurer is denying your wife the opportunity to renew her policy?

If I understand that correctly, it sounds very strange, almost illegal.

Its not illegal, its occurring as we speak. My wife has a genetic bone disease and her hospital and Dr. bills are astronomical. Just last year along her hospital bills were over $800k and thats not including her Pain Dr.s her orthopedic surgeon and outpatient visiting nurse. This was all paid for by my insurance and supplemental rider until this year. She was diagnosed at 14 years old and that year she had a full hysterectomy and 5 of her vertebrae fused. He doctors records are in the 17th volume each volume is over 4 inch's thick. And as a side note I also have a son by my first wife who was born blind.( Who I also pay for). Believe me I know about Hospitals/Insurance/Government and their interaction.

Get another supplemental provider, they sound crooked.

Joe, I really admire your ability to deal with that. God bless you and your family.

Little Joe, a sign in my doctors office says that he is not accepting any new Medicare patients. In low tones it was explained this is due to the big cuts in Medicare . Joe it seems it you are being pushed into a system in which it will be harder for you to find good healthcare coverage.

May I remind everyone-mostly my conservative friends-that the mantra "deficits don't matter" began under Ronald Reagan when the deficits were the largest since WW II. And there weren't a whole lot of conservative voices, as I recall, screaming about deficits when the deficits and national debt skyrocketed under G.W. Bush.

A lot of us 'Pay As You Go' types have been hollering for over 30 years now, and we're Democrats!

Now, the Republican controlled House just passed a rules amendment that requires revenue neutrality for spending increases--that's good--but NOT for tax cuts (i.e. no corresponding spending cuts if revenues are lowered). This is the same smoke and mirrors game that Republicans have played for 30 years now.

When are we going to figure out that we can't have it both ways? If we want the programs and services that WE THE PEOPLE demand that our government provide us, then WE THE PEOPLE are going to have to pay for them. Its really that simple.

fireguy...Or, maybe now that HMO CEOs won't be taking in what that CEO of Healthcare South did there will be less waste, fraud and theft in healthcare by HMOs? Maybe that will reduce the deficit? I'm sick of hearing about the deficit. it was already out of control when Bush got a second term. Where was the bitching then?

fireguy...there's a more onerous part of shutting down the US government...the global connections to our government that will also be shut down overseas. You willing to take that risk?

But the most important parts (restrictions on denial of care, subsidies for the poor) are absolutely necessary.

Are they going to force YOU onto it Mark?

I have health insurance through the company.

I think the rational behind forcing people to buy insurance is that in order to restrict an insurers' ability to deny health care based on a pre-existing condition, that people have to buy insurance when they are healthy and not wait until they develop an expensive illness.

To force a private insurer or the government to provide insurance only when some one gets sick wouldn't make sense.

Mark, what you say is true.

However, there are better ways to go about it that don't SCREW the 85% of American's that already have insurance who are happy with it.

This is once again pandering to the lowest common denominator minority at the expense of the majority, who simply wanted the system less rigged to serve the insurance companies, pharma and the government

They got a system that was even MORE rigged to serve insurance companies, pharma and the government.

It should come as no surprise that people want it repealed, and no it won't be repealed. But hopefully the worst parts will be stripped and replaced with something that serves the MAJORITY, not screws them....... AGAIN.

Pragmatic, if there are better ways, I certainly haven't heard them.

According to the benefits consultant our company uses, the health care bill will add 2 percentage points to the 12 percentage point increase in premiums we experienced this year, in other words, the bigger issue is why does the cost of health care run about 5X the rate of inflation, every single year? That's where the big question lies.

It's far from perfect, but it's workable, and we'd be waiting an awfully long time if we waited for perfection. If they can find parts that can be repealed without undermining the intent, I'm all for it.

Hey Mark, here's some support for you. Is there anyone out there that believes we are on the brink of deflation? Well, let me tell you, the measure of inflation is the purchasing power of your dollar. The price of everything, since the Reagan era, has become so inflated, it will take it 200 years to get back to normal. Tell these guys, go ahead deregulate more, write more confusing laws. Why not go for total bust? That's what the Republicans want.

Basic healthcare for citizens, extras for those who have the flash.

fireguy...Yes...the parts of it Republicans demanded remain in it. This healthcare reform isn't about the individuals. It's also about small business owners who are mandated by states that say they have to offer healthcare. What they end up doing is decreasing our salaries to pay for healthcare insurance they can't afford anymore.

Mark, no one can legally be denied medical services. NO ONE!!!!

It seems a common thing on this thread that "medical services" and "insurance coverage" are being used interchangeably. Yes, Mark, it is true that no one can be denied medical services. But who pays? Often the hospital or health care provider just has to absorb those costs.

The problem we have in the U.S. is not that we don't have enough insurance coverage. It's that medical services are too expensive. Hence the need for insurance companies. Are you following? It's a complicated problem. Obamacare doesn't do anything to address the skyrocketing costs of healthcare. As we've seen, it makes the problem worse. It's these skyrocketing costs that are making it necessary for insurance companies to raise premium rates. You can't expect insurance companies to continue to pay ever increasing costs without increasing rates. It's easy to make insurance companies the boogeyman here, and trust me I'm no fan of insurance companies. But Obamacare is a mistake (made most likely with the best of intentions) that has to be undone and replaced with common sense reforms. I applaud the new house majority for keeping their eye on the ball.

Prag, there you go again. The link you supplied says basically repeal of the bill would be a deficit in our budget. yet this link again from the C.B.O. says the original bill would reduce the deficit. by some $400 billion by 2019, because of cost reductions in Medicare. Now you say the figures where screwed by info given to the C.B.O., by the Dem. administrtion, if that is what I assume to be right, how do we believe you since you are so Republican in your theory? Where the hell do you come up with this conspiracy theory? More rhetoric? So we are to believe that the Congressional Budget Office, a by-partician part of the Federal Government is tainted by the Dems? Come on Rush, I mean Prag, get real. Stop the fear mongering, and political hack job you have been spouting in this Newsvine. Please speak your mind but not while on that bandwagon you continue to ride.

Congressional Budget Office, report on the cost of the HealthCareBill.

We tend to critisize the healthcare bill as it stands. Influenced by the insurance companies, we all know this bill is crap. However... it is a start; which has NEVER ever happened in the past BTW (and probably won't again in your lifetime).

Now, we need to contact our representatives and press them into doing what is right. Rid the bill of its pork, add the public option, and remove the mandatory requirement. The cost for insurance would have to go down if the public option was in place.

Hmmmmmm That really sounds like your saying..........I've always been a dog, but I really want to be a cat.

No... He's saying he's smelled the coffee.

You should too Joe, "Can I call you Joe" (only a few of you will get that)

No. I just watched in amazement during the health care debate as the republicans "to the last man" lined up to help the health insurance companies maintain their ability deny coverage to sick people or charge ridiculous prices for it, thereby making it impossible to afford.

John Dag: I wish more people like you got it. Fox plays a big part in brainwashing with untruths.

I'm so glad to see something I never thought I would. A Republican who is finally thinking for him/herself instead of letting Limbaugh think for him/her. John Dag, I appreciate your candor and courage. Personally, I'm not affiliated with any particular Party. I vote on the character of the person and their understanding of and abiding by the fundamentals this country was founded on. Unfortunately, these days it seems that most Republicans have never known what it's like to have to go to a food shelf through no fault of their own -- OR their parents -- because a wealthy person has decided they don't want to create 20 40k/yr jobs with the $800,000 they get to keep because of the tax cuts.

We are all screwed and going down as a country the goverment and banks and big buisnes, stocks it all a ponzy sceam when you print money and dont back it up and run up def. to large to fix ,all the cuts in the world ant going to help unitll we the people get these yahoos out of office the dollar will keep on lossing it strenth and jobs market will never be the same so injoy your health care why we still have it , and when we get sick and go to the emergancy all you yahoos who dont like health care will have to flip the bill and it will coast way more . so go ahead and repeal it lol lol lol

Hmmmmmm That really sounds like your saying..........I've always been a dog, but I really want to be a cat.

No, it's like saying, "I've always been blind, but now I can see!"

the health care bill was never about the people; and don't forget health care is a 'purchase service' it is NOT an entitlement......that is, it's not supposed to be. Obama wants 'control' and that's what this bill is. Plain and simple, not only will it financially break the country ie example: all of europe, but the the 'quality' of care will diminish not to mention the elderly are sunk under this thing. so all in all, I hope to hell the Reps can do something.

Actually, health care IS an entitlement to the rest of the developed world and to those in the U.S. who can afford it.

The quality of care sure-as-hell won't diminish for those who don't presently get any!

John Dag===you are surely a sick puppy==you side with the Democrats over this Health Care Bill that will cost a lot of Seniors their lives or lively hood trying to pay the bill and you sap want to help the democrats do it ==You must not of have a mother or father up in years or you don't care all I can say to you is ===thanks for helping to kill the elderly.

I shouldn't dignify such nonsensical babble with a response, but here it is:

I have no idea what you are talking about. How, exactly, does making health insurance available to those with pre-existing conditions and to those who can't afford it "kill the elderly"?

The true gift we have as human beings is to be able to look at a situation and change our minds. It takes courage to move past a familiar stragegy once we see it isn't working. It's much easier to grasp at the same comfortable straw, even when it's obvious that it's wrong. I congradulate you're courage, John Dag, and anyone else that has the guts to admit their misgivings.

ellie, your rant doesn't even make any sense. In so much as it lacks even the venier of a coherant argument, it only serves to make some of us feel embarrassed for you.

Then you had better take time and read the law instead of relying on Obama to tell you===oh by the way Democrat you wouldn't agree any how

Right on the money! Well put.

How much of the bill have you read? I've read the parts that people on the right gripe about, and find them completely appropriate. Here is a link to it, as I keep it saved as a favorite, along with the Constitution of the United States.

Maybe you're just one of these slugs that won't buy into the system; someone who leaches off of everyone else and goes to the ER like it was your PCP. If so, you have nothing to say that I want to hear. If you buy or have insurance, I can only assume that you get your information from Fox Propaganda, instead of the actual source. In any case, there is no part of the bill that has anything to do with killing the elderly, so my original statement stands: your post is embarrassing.

John Dag, You sound much like myself. I voted Republican all my life. I am now an Independent. I was very disappointed with the mess Bush left us with when left office. (I voted for him both times) However the "crap" (misinformation) coming from the Republicans during the health care debate confirmed my worst fears for what the Republican party stands for. They are ONLY interested in gaining and maintaining power! The Republican party of today has been hijacked by Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly et. al. The party has gone sooooo far to the right that they no longer represent me.

I have absolutely NO confidence in the Republican leadership in the House right now. I personally don't think Boehner (and I'm from Ohio) or Cantor are very bright and only are good at repeating talking points. If they are truly interested in repealing health care then they should be stepping up to the plate and offering an alternative. Most acknowledge that health care was broken and unsustainable before but their ONLY solution is to go back to the way it was.

It's going to be a long 2 years and my opinion is that if the Republicans believe that simply grandstanding without showing any results (i.e. jobs, deficit reduction, ...) they will pay the price in 2012.

Cavalier: While I appreciate your comment, to be clear, what I have intended to express is that it has become clear to me that, when it comes to the important issue of access to health care, the republicans have put the interests of the insurance companies ahead of the vital interests of the people, and this disturbs me deeply. In fairness, I believe that the democrats cater to lobbyists and campaign contributors on many important issues as well. I just feel that the health care repeal movement by the republicans is a particularly egregious example of this type of conduct because the stakes are, literally, life and death.

I am no fan of big, excessively powerful government, neither do I want to see my access to health care controlled by a few huge companies who, by their very nature, put profit ahead of people. When it comes to certain essential services, government regulation has always existed, at least to some extent, because it is necessary to protect the people from corporate excesses.

John Dag - actually O'Bama and the Democrats had the full support of the Insurance Industry. O'Bama Care would require every citizen to purchase Health Care which would result in Windfall Profits for the Insurance Industry. O'Bama also made Illegals and Welfare deadbeats exempt from that provision.

Re: John Dag

I completely agree with you John! I used to be a Dem, then switched to Rep but could not stomach their treatment of the middle class and their love of the wealthy...it just did not add up. I am now a proud Independent voter and agree that although I don't agree with everything Pres Obama does, I do believe that he truly cares about the middle class. Although not perfect, this healthcare law is better than what we had.

BTW, African American, married, college educated, business owning mother of three.

Actually, the insurance companies spent a ton of money trying to stop it. Now they are trying to repeal it.

I agree 100 %

@John: I wasn't amazed at all. That's how they got to be known as the Party of No.

The party of no is only thinking of 2012......get the job and then say. ok, now what?Waste of time to repeal a law that won't even make it through the Senate.......

DO something for God's sake...... let the country see what you can do! Not gonna hold my breath. At least the Dems tried to get something accomplished......the Reps have not accomplished anything except delay and disruption... not impressed. :(

If I become sick and aged, please let me opt out if I so choose. I decide the quality of life issue. Old age can be cruelly brutal for some.

Sheri, thanks for your input. Sounds like we have similar stories. If the Republicans continue only playing to their base, they be will sorry. They need to realize that most American are centrists and they should be moving more toward the middle; not to the right. Most of us appreciate compromise when it moves the country forward. I was encouraged by how Congress worked together during the lame duck. Now, not so much.

BTW: Male, Caucasian, Mid 40s, Married, White collar with an MBA, Father of three (two in college with one more entering next year)

You may have voted Republican all your life but you can't be a true conservative and think that Obamacare is a good law. The Republicans aren't advocating getting rid of some type of reform but Obamacare is not about Health Care. It is about control of an industry and more importantly the population in general. Why do you thinkn that the insurance companies stood behind the Democrats on Obamacare. It is because they were promised to get 30 million new clients. They problem is that Obamacare is designed to get rid of the insurance companies and turn the government into the insurance company. Now the Government has done such a great job with everything it has attempted to run, right? Like Social Security, the VA, Medicare, Etc etc etc. The governement should not be in the business of running business. It's job is to provide an environment that makes businesses work and that is where regulations come into play. that is what the insurance industry needs is to be better regulated and allowed to operate wherever it wants to setup shop. We can debate this forever but the bottom line is Obamacare will not solve any health care problem but will run up the deficit, it will run Doctors away or out of business, it will stifle R&D and most importantly it will take control of your life. For example under Obamacare the government can decide that certain cars can;t be owned or what med's a doctor can give you or what type of drinks you can have and do this all under the guise of health care and what is decided to be good or bad for you.

So if you have always voted Republican and because of Obamacare you won't anymore then you must be a RINO and we really don't want you on this side of the isle. The Free Narkets is what made this country great and the demise of them will destroy the USA.

Ahhhh - case in point!

If it makes you feel better to call me a RINO, good for you. I wouldn't call me a RINO because I don't call myself a Republican at all anymore. As I stated earlier, I'm now an Independent. You know, one of those swing voters who both parties vie for because they are generally the ones who decide elections. (By the way, I didn't say it was ONLY health care that moved me away from the Republican party. So who sounds the most rational here?)

You are certainly welcome to believe your "doom and gloom" above. Personally, I don't buy it.

A Rational Person...What on earth does being Republican have to do with being a conservative? If I understand your post, you are saying "My way or the highway" if you don't follow strict conservative ideology. All conservatives I have ever known are stingy, tightwads, obsessed with every nickle that passes through their hands and unwilling to admit any of it.

Sorry, but you don't HAVE TO be a conservative to be a Republican. That's the reason YOUR party is no longer MY party. I don't like people telling me how to think. Particularly when I see others hurt by the miserly attitudes of conservatives.

You people just don't get it. If you reduce this country to a plutocracy, you have been successful in creating a third world country. A prosperous country doesn't leave 99% struggling so 1% can have it all. Grow up.

ellie... Take your Meds and watch your Soaps.

You know what I love most about the idiotic right wing ideology bashing healthcare reform because they don't like the idea that the government can force people to buy it now? They'd be the first ones bitching if they caught the plague from some uninsured person...it being the uninsured person's fault for not being born rich or as fortunate of course. This is typical right wing insanity. They want people to allow HMOs to continue to spiral healthcare costs out of control, don't want corporations to be forced to stop hoarding money and collecting tax credits the rest of us will end up paying for, don't like the idea that they can't ride a Gravy Train on cheap labor profits and no healthcare benefits or pensions...but God help you if you dare infect them with some fatal plague.

Rational Person:

Oh-Great-Voice-Of -Reason,

I have a perfect "free market" solution. Let's stop regulating doctors. Let's let anyone who wants to practice medicine do so without government interference. This way there will be a huge increase in available doctors which will surely drive down the price of health care. Free market forces will, eventually, drive the former plumbers who weren't very good a bypass surgery out of business. Come to think of it, I could use a few extra bucks and always wanted to try my hand at brain surgery. In fact, now that I don't have Obama trying to regulate my life, I think I'll preform the surgery outside! It's really nice out today!

John, disappointing that you and many americans do not understand what this healthcare bill will do to us and is doing already. Blue care in California has raised it's premiums by 49% because of the bill. 700,000 people on Medicare advantage now have to look for other coverage since they are being dropped. Which Obama has said numerous times that no one would lose their coverage. 6,000 low income children in New York are losing their coverage because of this bill. There are well over 100 companies granted waivers and do not need to adhere to the bill for at least one year. The CBO stated that even though they say it will cut the deficit, the democrats double counted the $500 billion in medicare savings, which we all know will never materialize, anyways. The dems also counted the $80 billion in profits from the student loan program in to the cost estimate. The dems also did not count the $225 billion or so in the medical reimbursements. Taking these in to consideration, it is now adding to the deficit and not reducing. Do not count out the end of life counseling. Do any of you understand why this is being implemented through executive order? Because the bill would not have passed if it was not taken out. Doctors getting paid to counsel elderly and the ill if they want to end thier life. Do any of you realize that the insurance companies only make about 6% profit? That is a lot lower compared to all other industries. All of you watch and see how much your premiums will increase, lower raises to compensate for the increases, and how many of you will be dropped from your coverage. It is cheaper for your employer to pay the penalty than to pay for your healthcare coverage. Add up all this and do any of you have an additional $10,000 or so in money to pay for this? It is coming. How many of you that are for this now, will be for it then? Why do you think the plan was fully implemented in 2014? Because the democrats know what it will do to all of us. They wanted to get by the 2012 and 2014 elections first. And lastly, why do any of you think insurance companies do not allow preexisting conditions? Let's say a person is 22 and has a $60,000 per year job. They will pay the $750 or so fine and not get in to the insurance. Let's say they hit 60 years old and find out that they have an illness that will take a million or so to cure. They can then walk in to the insurance office and say I want your best coverage. No deductibles and no copays. The insurance company then has to insure them. We all then have to pay for them. This is why Insurance companies do not allow it and now we have it. This will dramatically increase costs.

Mark, I will give you credit for being civil and rational in your tone. I don't doubt that the new law has its problems and may need some revision. I don't know if the predictions you make are well founded. I do know that any Republican alternative should contain two simple elements.

1. Decent health care should be accessible to all.

2. Decent health care should be affordable to all.

If the republicans can come up with an alternative that meets those requirements, I will support it.

Prior to reform, the existing system left millions of sick people without care and that is not acceptable.

Ask Mr Cantor and his friends if they will try to repeal their current Federal Health Insurance plan. They r hypocrits and again will allow the rich to get richer (which includes themselves) at the expense of the middle class which includes the brave men and women fighting their war in Pakistan.Afganistan and Iraq.

Can anybody tell me what the Repuplicans are offering as a replacement? I am in agreement with John Dag above........good post John!

Would just love to see the Republicans use their control of the house to accomplish something/ANYTHING! As a registared independent, I will be watching..........its time for them to put up or shut up.

John Dig.

All what know about health care reform that it favor the insurance companies and the government?

Pre-existing condition or post existing condition, your premium increase will go from 20% to 50%, private insurance have to thank Obama for that and buy a big bunch of his books in a show of appreciation

On Medicare and Medicaid, cut vision and dental care. So, you have to buy Vision and Dental from private insurance and the government saves a bundle

I don’t know why Republican oppose this, may be what still to learn about this, or they use as a tool to bash the democrats and get elected

The Democrats are just in the pockets of different groups like lawyers and unions and will proudly throw the rest of us under the bus to protect those groups that finance them. Politics is not unique to Republicans. I doubt that having politicians manage insurance is better than insurance companies. Reader who only read MSNBC for political news are not really getting the whole story.

tired-of-it==You want to join in well why don't you tell everyone the good part about the Health Care calamity. When government tries to force something down my throat then it's time to fight back vote them out.

oh yes the whole "forcing down my throat " rhetoric, lemme guess you're a teabagger...

oh btw,

repealing healthcare reform will destroy 400,00 jobs

http://pwtenny.newsvine.com/_news/2011/01/07/5785795-harvard-economist-estimates-health-repeal-would-destroy-up-to-400000-jobs-per-year-over-decade

and it will also increase the deficit

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/01/speaker-boehner-dismisses-cbos-report-health-care-repeal-increases-deficit.html

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=1750

"Because CBO and JCT estimated that the March 2010 health care legislation would reduce budget deficits over the 2010–2019 period and in subsequent years, we expect that repealing that legislation would increase budget deficits"

Bottom line, republicans are LIARS. Someone needs to call them out for what they are. They are the real domestic terrorists.

Oh American Latina,

You are, in a word, wrong. I don't expect common sense to resonate with you, but here are the facts nonetheless. Neither Obama nor a Democrat controlled congress have the authority to repeal the fundamental laws of economics. Have a nice day.

I'm not sure how that all works, but your sentiment runs contrary to the right-wing objection to "death panels".

I don't think the restriction on lifetime caps is targeted at 90 year old people who want high-risk, high-cost heart transplants.

fireguy-2858597

The no lifetime limit on care alone could cripple the country. Some people believe that it is the right thing to keep their 90 year old grandmother on a ventilator indefinitely (whatever it takes to keep her alive) despite a grim prognosis@ $5,000 per day.

Sorry to tell you this but to compaire keeping a 90 year old on a ventilator is miss leading, the life time cap is for people like my mother who faught cancer for 10 years, from age 53 to 64. she hit her life time cap with her ins company and could not get new insurance because she had pre-existing conditions. see people with cancer and MS will run out of ins coverage with in 10 years, depending on the type of cancer. the Ins companies want you to believe a life time cap will break us, this is how they really make there money. they charge you for 30 years but when you hit your cap they drop you, my mother lived 3 years after she lost her ins.

i don't agree with making people buy ins, but if they need emergency care and refused to buy in to the system, then the tax payers will have to pay, Now is that fair for the government to pay for a person who refused to buy in. that is the main reason why that provision was put in, to decrease the cost to the tax payers if you need emergency care and don't have Ins.

these are the saving the CBO is caculating, the saving will come when hospitals are not longer billing the government for uninsured people.

Jeff, I am sorry. This is sad. I wish I had the answer. I admittedly have never been in anything resembling your predictament. I know that forcing anyone to purchase anything is unconstitutional but in the end, someone will have to pay.

fireguy-2858597

I know this will sound heartless, but those who refused to buy in, if they need emergency care will have to be denied.
Fire I'm a liberal, i can't stand to see people take advantage of emergency room care, when they are too cheap to buy ins.
Consertives would agree with me.

The problem is that what the feds are trying to force people to buy is unimaginably unaffordable for most people, and yet it's OK for the gov't to force people to purchase it anyway?!?

In my state, NJ, the premiums for a family of four are $16,000 per yr. At least.

If we were to lose our employer sponsored coverage, there is NO WAY we could afford those kinds of premiums, and we would not qualify for ANY subsidies. So we would be forced to pay a substantial fine for the the crime of not being able to afford insurance and OUR hard-earned money would than be used to pay for some OTHER family's insurance.

Tell me that's constitutional.

Fireguy: I have no idea how you think the lifetime cap issue would harm the economy. It might put some of the more inefficient health insurance companies out of business, but it won't hurt the economy. Heath insurance is just to lucrative, and if one goes out of business some one (or many) will take their place. That's the way the market works. Those who can't compete under the rules go away to be replaced with smarter companies. Anything that makes the current systems trim some fat (like selling their gold-plated silverware for execs.) is a good thing for the economy, and the people.

I know it will upset some here, but I believe I have an obligatioin to myself to attend to the less fortunate and to resist evil. I have the favor of being able to contribute to the greatest ideals or to satisfy myself, realizing that in the end it is myself I serve by serving others. That SOCIALIST ideal is sustainable.

fireguy...The right wing has contorted that End of Life line item to become "Death Panels"...they want it both ways. Their way and 43 million Americans get NO healthcare when corporation lay them off or find some other profit making venture to increase unemployment. When that doesn't work Republican death panels will sell your life out to Wall Street who spend your insurance premium money on their high risk investments and when you need it, Sorry...It's spent. BS. BS. BS....chief manufacturing industry of Republicans.

There are 4 companies in the US who took the money in HSAs and spent it like it was their own. Another Enronitis BS tactic.

fireguy...So let's pass a law to kill off anyone older than 50. That way it will save HMOs tons of money, make lots and lots of profit. The problem with the younger generation in this country is they actually think they are never going to be old. At the ages they are marrying, I'd bet they'll be dead by age 70 from dealing with teenage sons and daughters.

By the way, I know a woman who just graduated in June 2010 at age 93...got her college degree. Perhaps assuming all 90 year olds are ready for the Grim Reaper is a little off base?

ewent

Anytime you increase the expense burden on businesses, the employees of the business and the consumers that give patronage to the businesses are the losers. The best way to succeed in life is to launch or buy a successful business (making you the CEO) so that then you can set your own salary. Risk versus Reward

My earlier post was hypothetical (about 90 year-old grandma on a ventilator)Understand it was for argument's sake only. I have a 94 year old grandfather who is for the most part healthy.

I know it will upset some here, but I believe I have an obligatioin to myself to attend to the less fortunate and to resist evil. I have the favor of being able to contribute to the greatest ideals or to satisfy myself, realizing that in the end it is myself I serve by serving others.

kedbob - and you have the right to do so. However, you do NOT have the constitutional right to force this view on others, and neither does the government.

Get the difference?

fiscal conservative...I live in NJ. I get my healthcare insurance via my employer. On average, it costs me $3500 a year because I have a Lyme-disease related heart condition and require more care than the other employees. My copays are $50 a pop for the cardiologist. Prescription drugs $40 for a 30-day supply. I take 4 medications. This healthcare reform bill isn't "unaffordable". You need to read the bill before you make such outrageous claims. I am going to save at least half of the cost now that the HCR bill is in place...on my meds alone.

Kedbob -----------Socialism sucks. I don't need the government contolling each aspect of my life. We live in a current system that allows you to think for yourself, be innovative ,creative, motivated, and build your life as you see fit.

Don't let the handful of badapples in the banking or finance industry blind you from the truth. Most rich people are not evil and out to rob you! The rich do give their time and some of their money to charity.

fireguy...Or in the words of one employer I once worked for: "Hey ...It's easier to rip off my employees than the IRS." Employers shouldn't have to pay for healthcare. But the Republicans refused to allow single payer option. I'd rather pay for my own healthcare knowing I have choice than allowing my employer's bottom line to dictate my healthcare for me. And that's not something that's new...it's been going on for generations.

Do you want to know the real reason Republicans were so against that public option? It would have ended the guaranteed group profits from employers who pay for their employees plans....Simple to figure out. If you have each American paying less for their own healthcare, HMOs couldn't continue to increase the cost to employers, could they?

ewent - you did not read my comment. So try to contain your smugness and superiority complex.

I stated that IF WE WERE TO LOSE OUR EMPLOYER-SPONSORED INSURANCE, our cost to buy insurance would be roughly $16k a year. And if you haven't priced insurance in NJ lately, YOU have no idea what you're talking about.

And given the fact that insurance costs keep increasing with NO end in sight, there is every likelihood that more and more employers will eventually drop this coverage for their employees. I regularly read the business news, and there have been many articles written that acknowledge this to be true - and the biggest corporations say that it will only take one big company to do so - and they ALL will follow.

And trust me, you will be paying a lot more than $3500 a year for your insurance and there is NOTHING in Obamacare that will be bringing those costs down. Nothing.

ewent - you are so friggin ignorant as to the reasons why health insurance costs as much it does. And your belief that a single payer system is the answer proves it.

One of the biggest reasons why health insurance is so expensive in NJ is because of all the unfunded mandates that Democrats have jammed down the throats of the insurance companies, costs which naturally get passed on to the consumer in the form of gold-plated policies. This is true in many other states as well.

So, for example, in NJ, the DEMOCRATS caused most of the problem, or at least had a huge hand in exponentially exacerbating it - and then they have the balls to scream that insurance costs too much.

In fact, it's the government that started this entire mess, by encouraging employers to provide coverage to their employees in the first place.

No one should have insurance for preventative care and routine health maintenance. Insurance is supposed to be risk-based, and this kind of coverage flies in the face of that concept. EVERYBODY should be paying for preventative health care - and for those who truly can't afford to do so, there is already medicaid in place.

What everyone should have is catastrophic insurance at a reasonable cost. But that's it.

But you expect me to accept that the government should entirely control health care distribution - the same people who are responsible for most of the existing mess in the first place? Don't make me laugh.

fiscal conservative...Does being the administrator of my company's healthcare insurance count Oh Grand Pubbah of Upper Butt Crack? Don't tell me what I know. If your insurance is costing you $16,000 a year, you have better healthcare insurance than COBRA offers at $780 a month for a single person. You are the most ignorant because your mind is so closed.

You already ARE paying for other people's hospitalization every time someone without health care NEEDS emergency care...So do tell what should we do to fall into brown shirt line with fiscal conservative misers? Let people die on the sidewalks?

How is catastrophic healthcare insurance going to help people who have chronic diseases? Or don't the misers of conservatism allow people to have inherited diseases like diabetes that grow worse with age? Or don't fiscal conservatives age? Is that one not allowed either?

Conservatives love that one size fits all routine...So did Hitler. And you know what his standardization procedures for healthcare were.

Ewent

Employers offer coverage at a discount because of volume (based on the number of employees). The larger and more generous the company, the better. They can get a much better deal for coverage than a single individual. I think this is what fiscal conservative was trying to explain to you.

I know a self -employed man who always had family coverage paid for by his own business but thanks to Obama's HCR and subsequent price escalations on everyone he has had to drop it.

ewent - you are a nasty little piece of work, not to mention a bald-faced liar. You aren't the administrator of anything except your toilet, you fool.

Again, you little twit - you did not read my comment. I said that $16,000 a year would be for a family of FOUR and I think I was pretty clear about the fact that I meant insurance purchased by us on the private market INDEPENDANT OF AN EMPLOYER. But you apparently have trouble with both basic reading skills AND comprehension.

We've all been sold down the river.

To your point, the Supreme Court gave Freedom of Speech rights to Corporations this year with political contributions, talk about bending the constitution!

because the supreme court says they are a living being, corporations that is.

Yes we have and the top 1% won't stop till they have got half of the total income!!

Tax Reform Act of 1986 and then NAFTA sent most of the USA down the river, much to the delight of the elite and powerful.

All you folks worried about getting ahead and beating the next guy should realize that your behavior works to the favor of the elite money enabling them to wreak havoc around the GLOBE. The globalists are fascists. Conserve, save and generally slow down. Stop slaving yourself to work excess for their benefit. The system we use ruins the world and the system that prevails is engineered by capitalfascists to continue ensuring wealth accumulation at the peak. The uber rich must be taxed to submit. The financial houses must be taxed to submit. The money must be removed from their control. The FED needs to be dismantled, or modified to serve as a true arm of the government under congressional control, as it should have always been.

A corporation is a person in the eyes of the law. Repeal this law and you will cripple the hold they have on us all.

All the tea party people and pretty much every republican running in the election said they want to repeal the healthcare law. If you voted for any of them you are the dumb one.

mjcmsp, if you believe that, YOU are the dumb one.

Remember, this is the same legislative pile of doo-doo that Pelosi told the country we would find out what was in it AFTER it was passed. Thousands of pages of cr*p and almost NOTHING in there that does a single friggin' thing to address the rising costs of healthcare.

It absolutely needs to go and they need to start over.

And it may not get repealed any time soon, but I expect the Republicans to choke the life out of it financially.

so you think that dening coverage for sick people, children, etc etc is ok? Very strange

That the healthcare was passed without scrutiny hints to me that the bill's future repeal was a given. They always intended to kill this bill. It was incepted that way. Mark my words: the senate will vote to repeal and obama will not veto. We will continue on the track set for us years ago.

kedbob...Come off it. President Obama knew it was now or never and he also knew that Republicans would stop any healthcare reform to protect the wealthiest 1%. I want HMOs to use the money we pay in premiums for healthcare....not Wall Street investments. It's our money. We give it to them to use for our healthcare not to use for investments. Risky investments that go sour and then they need more money for that which they've gambled away. No more increases in healthcare costs, no more claim rejected to keep more premiums for investment...enough is enough.

youkilis - and YOU think it's OK to fine people for the crime of not being able to afford health insurance coverage and using the money that one family earned and giving it away to another family so THEY can buy insurance with money they didn't earn and doesn't belong to them?

Strange.

Or could you be one of those standing on line, waiting for the handout of the money that MY famly earned and will be stolen from us to give to people like you?

fiscalconservative...You think it's fine for those of us who can afford it to have to pay for ours and theirs because they have NO healthcare insurance? And, let's not pretend that HMOs are not profit selective. They don't want older people insured in their group plans because aging is a liability to their bottom line. They want young healthy people who have no record of illness to speak of because they will pay for healthcare insurance they won't use for at least 2 decades.

And yet you keep completely ignoring what I said - which was that the government is set to FORCE people to buy an impossibly expensive product in many states - and if they can't do so, will fine them and give that money to other people's families to pay for THEIR coverage.

And you're OK with that?

fiscal conservative...I have several relatives like in red states. None have the wherewithall to spend state revenues on the things their residents and taxpayers really need. N....E....E....D...get it? It's much easier for these red state fiscal conservatives to dump those NEEDS on the federal government so we can pay for ours and theirs too. That's not even conservatism...that's a shakedown.

ewent, you are a blathering idiot.

the government is set to FORCE people to buy an impossibly expensive product in many states - and if they can't do so, will fine them and give that money to other people's families to pay for THEIR coverage.

fiscalconservative You miss the point where subsidies are in place for those less fortunate. Poor people will have a voucher to afford the insurance. Businesses will have more or less the same.
On one hand, you cheer for the loss of a public option which would reduce insurance cost then root for the death of the bill in its entirety which has protections for you in place all the while blaming democrats for forcing it upon you... like shooting yourself in the foot and blaming it for bleeding.
Lastly, the insurance companies DO NOT want it repealed (hurts to know that your republican heroes will support this privately) but only want to remove the legislation which regulates them. Do you honestly believe that an insurance company doesn't want every US citizen to be forced to buy thier insurance? Why not? The government will pay for what the citizen can't afford. In 2012 your republicans will be crying at the podiums say, "We really tried hard but we failed..." just to get your vote, turn around and shake the insurance lobbyists hand while tucking money in thier pocket.

Bossimo, you are a liar. Those who can't afford will be given credit, that is the law. Only those who refuse will be fined. Stop the b.s., and stop listening to Fox, Rush, and Mike, expand your knowledge, don't confine it.

Bob-1920561 I was quoting fiscalconservative friend.

my apologise.

The only legislation the Republicans were willing to support would have given the insurance companies the "green light" to continue to gouge the people while continuing to make health coverage unavailable to those who need it most. It sucks to be sick in America. That is, unless you or your employer (if you have one), can afford to pay an insurance company a grand a month.

Simply not true ... although it is the popular talking point of the Left.

So tell me John, how do you like the 59% rate increase in CA this AM. How do you like that component of the Obama-care solution.

The Left never attempted to include elements that may have made a difference ... revoking the anti-trust exemption for insurance across state lines and Tort reform. Those were always off the table for the Left.

It would be helpful to quit casting the "those that need it most" story. I have NEVER heard ANYONE from either side that was considering throwing the needy under the bus. It's such a disingenuous argument!

Yes, I read that Cali got a 59% increase on individual policies. The article I read pointed right to the health care bill as the main cause.

Big rate increases are standard practice for health insurance companies. They succeeded in getting implementation of many of the key provisions of the bill delayed so they could "gouge away" for a few more years.

If you don't know anyone who has had a problem affording health care or health insurance, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us what "book" you live in. It sounds like a wonderful fantasy.

By-the-way, I am not a left-leaning person. The left and the right both have their masters and both do their bidding of their big campaign contributors. I just see the republican position on health care for what is really is...a blatant example of a political party (in this case the republicans) lining up to support their corporate masters over the most vital interests of the people.

They're raising the prices now because they can. Just like the banks raised their fees just before the credit card controls went into effect.

Exactly!

Like the Republicans never did that before.....

John

They succeeded in getting implementation of many of the key provisions of the bill delayed so they could "gouge away" for a few more years.

So you admit that the insurance companies were in bed with the Dems in writing the HC act? Good! We agree. But then you link corporate master to the Republicans. Two questions: first, you do know that big corporations (including Insurance companies) overwelmingly supported Obama in 2008? Second, I see the Rerpublicans aligning with the 60% of the electorate that want this particular bill revoke and replaced. I don't see a coporate relationship.

Lastly, I pay for my insurance too. So I get it with the problems. No one ... repeat ... NO ONE on either side of this discussion has proposed making it worse. Of course it's a little bit easier to get big daddy government to say they'll give it to you than it is to get big daddy government to pay for delivery.

Astonished,

I readily admit that the giant corporations have way too much influence with BOTH parties. In fact, former Democrat Joe Lieberman played a key role in keeping people between 55 and 65 from having access to medicare to accommodate the insurance companies in Connecticut who didn't want that to happen. I believe that insurance companies spent a lot of money trying to control the outcome of the health care reform debate, including running ads to scare people out of supporting it, just like they did in the 90s. I also believe that they contributed, disproportionately, to republicans in the last election to try to retroactively kill reform because they didn't like the final version of the bill.

Do you honestly believe that not ONE SINGLE REPUBLICAN thought this bill had merritt? They were OBVIOUSLY in lock step to those who were calling the shots. The most important provisions of the bill are actually supported by the people, but you never hear republicans talk about requiring coverage for preexisting conditions and preventive care, or for requiring the insurance companies to pay a substantial portion of the premiums they receive as benefits. Why not??

John,

The most important provisions of the bill are actually supported by the people, but you never hear republicans talk about requiring coverage for preexisting conditions and preventive care, or for requiring the insurance companies to pay a substantial portion of the premiums they receive as benefits

Just not true. I've heard many talk about the provisions they agree with, including the one on pre-existing conditions. Most recently, as in yesterday, Paul Ryan.

with regard to the "substantial portion of premiums" part, you mean the big corporations that are getting waivers from this clause now ... from the Dems? Like AFL-CIO, McDonalds, Teamsters, etc?

But to your point, let's discuss business for the moment (forget about insurance). Suppose you own a business and the government comes to you and starts telling you how you have to spend your profit? Not taxes, fees, and other business expenses but profits? You've done your job, you've made your profit and here comes Uncle Sam to tell you how you have to spend it.You OK with that? I'm not!

What you need to do is add more cross state competition to the insurance industry and then Insurance Companies would have to compete for benefits.

This provision is not in the current bill. The Dems would not allow it because of their "deal" with Insurance companies.

Repeal means going back to a system that everyone agrees is broken

I have not heard a single proponent of the repeal effort even marginally assert that we should go back to the prior condition.

With repect to an alternative plan, several WERE offered and ARE still on the table. The fundamental crux of the issue is that what the extreme left HAD to have was a government run plan. How can any measure of bipartisanship be created when that specific element is diametrically opposite what that which the core electorate believe.

So the conventional wisdom is that the Repubs will offer this bill, it will pass in the House and fail in the Senate. Likely it will be found unconstitutional in the SC. What is on the table is replace this albatross with a good bipartisan (and likely less expensive) alternative.

The Bill has been passed, and the only thing I hear is repeal. That means the whole Bill. That means going back to the same old crooked system we had.

I've not heard anything about amending the Bill. But as many have said before me... This is just simple showboating by the Republicans to show that they tried to the 'maroons' who voted for them.

What about all the time and money that has already been poured into the whole friggin' debate? It is my opinion that the so called fiscally responsible should act fiscally responsible and amend the thing if that is what they want instead of throwing it out to start over! Please tell me how this continued debate and congressional vote, which we all already agree is a waste of time, is doing one thing to reduce the deficit by one penny or make or break one job for any American? Those who harp on about "fiscal responsiblities", or lack thereof, of one party over the other need to walk the damn talk! NO REPEAL! AMEND if that is what you want!

Wow, Tired-of-it. You're special!

You, representing less than 40% of the population are obviously intellectually superior to the the 60% that don't feel the way you do.

I'll just bet that you didn't feel the electorate were "maroons" in 2008!

If you would listen ... just a little ... you'd hear the second part ... REPLACE

astonished..the electorate did not vote to repeal obamacare... most polls indicate that more people are in favor of it than are against it. Many in the opposition would like to see a stronger bill with a public option.. Maybe I have misread your posting.. just read the one above this post of mine.. To control runaway healthcare costs we need legislation and more controls.. the industry is running amok with our money not the gov't.

Repubs have no ideas of their own. They just pander to the huge, multi-national corporations, and they give tax breaks for sending jobs overseas.

They must be great hypnotists, because they somehow convince ordinary people that restoring insurance companies' rights to deny coverage based on previous conditions is somehow good for people.

Asstonish

I've heard nothing about replacement.... Just repeal You need to listen.

Tired of it

Thanks for being civil, I see you have some issues with my handle

... I have listened, my friend.

Astonished-655682 Repeal and Replace I have heard over and over from republicans, but when asked what they plan to replace it with I hear crickets chirping. The last HC bill brought before the People by republicans was two pages long. In other words, NO reform. Try to remember, or research if you like, they last time republicans attempted to reform ANYTHING. Oh, wait, No Child Left Behind.

Say what you want about the merit of the health care bill...but deceptive rhetoric?

The Republicans ran on a promise to attempt to repeal the bill. They were voted in...and are doing just that. I don't see any deception in that at all. Nor did I see any deception in the Democrats working for 2 years to pass the law...they too ran with a promise to create Government run health-care.

So to be honest, it's one of the few points of clarity from both parties.

What's your problem?

apmprescot, you're right on the money!

To be exact, the republican leadership doesn't exist or it exists through non -government voices. When you have the GOP chairman Michael Steele bowing down begging forgiveness from a radio comedian like Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin trumpeting death panels, and Congresswoman Michele Bachmann in charge of our nations secrets, you can sure bet that leadership is not in the forecast.

Of course, Boehner could lead with not just a No but a Hell No platform.

Ron, I think we need to undo the Republicans first, and, next would be you, Ron.

MOST people do NOT want it repealed.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm

But they DO want a public option or other cost controls added. Most Americans have a clue that this reform is needed. Looks like republicans are about to be on the wrong side of the public again.

lib50 - and I can find polls that say the majority of people DO want this terrible legislation repealed.

http://thehill.com/house-polls/the-hill-anga-poll-week-1/122851-distaste-for-healthcare-law-crosses-party-lines

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Hey Lib50 notice the DATE of your link??? Gosh that looks like MARCH OF LAST YEAR.

How about something current. Accordiing to a Gallup poll taken this week:

Approximately 46 percent of U.S. voters support the repeal effort, some 40 percent oppose it,

I don't think there is any bill that will please everyone. People will object to certain provisions but my thinking is that in order to meet the big objectives, such as care for the poor and restrictions on denial of service, there are necessarily going to be aspects that we don't like, such as forcing people to buy insurance when they are healthy so that insurers aren't forced to insure people only when they get sick.

It did go through too quickly, but I think that was due to the fact that republicans had no appetite for reform and Obama knew that the mid-terms would cost him a majority needed to pass the bill.

Mark, i agree! I believe the idea was to push it though before Nov and then worry about defending the portions of it that really work. And whether or not you want to believe it this does have a Jobs implication to it. Just as the reductions in the Federal work force will also. I have a good friend that just took a mid level management job at the IRS where he was told his salary would be frozen for the first 3 years and that lots of people were sure to get laid off. but that he was absolutely safe. (I wish I could get that guarantee)

Mark, I think you are absolutely right. No rational person could have believed that the bill would continue and be implemented without reform. The Republicans couldn't support it and work on a bipartisan plan the first time around for political reasons. Handing the President, in his first term, such a huge legislative success would have killed them this past November. I don't like that, but it is reality.

For the Democrat's part, they had to know (especially those in tight races) that they were committing political suicide by passing this bill. That took political courage -- for all of you out there who don't believe politicians still work for what they think is best for the country instead of their own interests, look no further than the Democrats who voted for this knowing they would be defeated because of it. But at least now it is done and it can be reformed through bipartisanship until it is a little more palatable.

Ultimately, it took those Democrats falling on their political swords to ensure that you will never again lose coverage for getting sick and all the other points that we all can agree on. Without them it would still be the status quo. Now the Republicans can get serious about implementing reforms that will allow them to portray themselves as the saviors in the next (and subsequent) elections.

Knowing you are going to get voted out and handing your opponents political ammunition for years to come to do whats best for the country. Somehow I can't see Boehner ever actually being that patriotic.

Americans are starting to get a clue.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-23-health-poll-favorable_N.htm

Yes, they are.

http://thehill.com/house-polls/the-hill-anga-poll-week-1/122851-distaste-for-healthcare-law-crosses-party-lines

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

look at the date of Lib50's link. Hmmmmmmm, March of LAST YEAR.

A Gallup poll this week shows that MORE PEOPLE want repeal than don't 46 to 40.

That is the flaw of capitalism: charitable men are not attracted and ruthless men are in competition.

More Americans want to repeal the health-reform law that was enacted last year than those who don't, according to a new Gallup poll released Friday.

Well dragon, whats that mean to you? You might as well have put , away from the tub of koolaid and it still mean the same thing.

Little: First it means that everyone, especially Repubs who keep saying Pelosi said "we gave to pass it to find out what is in it" and keep spewing that Dems did not know what is in it are WRONG! Secondly her statement was 100% accurate, there was alot of fog from Fox and Repubs...all incorrect...and since people have been able to get some real facts, some real information on what is in it and seen the benefits...most do not want it repealed....many want it to go further.

Anyway Dragon, they should be called "Fux News". They like fuxing people around.

Dragon, finally, a voice of reason!

This line has been so misquoted and taken out of context. There are many who have picked the words they wanted and erroneously repeated the result as gospel.

Thank you for setting the record straight.

Hey Dragon - even some Democrats did not know what the Health Bill contained. Pelosi pushed the "Vote for It Now" and we can look at it later. Not only that, O'Bama, Pelosi and Reid would not allow any meaningful debates on the Health Care Issue. That's why the Democrats lost the House and are going to loose the Senate in 2012, with or without O'Bama.

Has anyone noticed that O'Bama's new staff appointments are said to favor big business and Wall Street. I guess O'Bama's Socialistic idea of redistribution of wealth doesn't make him look good in 2012. O'Bama is doing the exact same thing he accused the Republicans of doing - looking at 2012 instead of fixing the economy. The Revolution has started and we have O'Bama to thank for the tragedy.

Have they not had time to read it by now? Or they can't read?

I'm telling you, that bill was born a throw-away. So it doesn't matter what it contained.

More Americans want to repeal the health-reform law that was enacted last year than those who don't, according to a new Gallup poll released Friday.

YB, tort reform is a good idea in theory, but it's in the purview of state's rights and it only adds about 3% to the total cost of health care anyway.

The comment about the marketing expense for prescription drugs is right on though. Prescription drugs are, I believe, the chief cost driver in the medical industry right now.

The majority of states already have passed their own versions of tort reform. If the goal is to reduce the federal government's involvement in people's lives, why not let the states continue to handle it? Doctors and other providers could decide where to practice based on liabilities at their discretion, which would be an incentive for states to get tough. But I do agree with Mark that while tort reform is important and should be discussed, it is minimal in the grander scheme of the entire problem. Anyway, do we really believe if a physician's insurance premium is dropped 20K per year that he/she is going to lower the prices of the service? Most often he/she will buy a better model of a BMW or Mercedes the next year.

Dragon: Thanks for the info.

You are right Dragon. When a political party decides to remove themselves from nonpartisan scrutiny...our government moves toward fascism.

That certainly will have to be verified, Thats a comment that one should not take seriously with out gathering facts. And I dont mean one persons facts on this blog but personal review of all facts. How ever as a final comment I feel better with Ryan looking at them than Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid.

Little: Dems had CBO look at it, not Pelosi or Harry...get it? Repubs do not want CBO to look at their bills, they want Ryan, one of their own, to costs all bills...can you say "fox guarding the hen house"....

Ya Dragon, and littlejoepeep is littlejoesheep.

They are going to let Ryan score the bills.

They are going to let Issa ask the corporations what they don't like about regulatory laws.

I thought this was a democracy...

I thought this was a democracy...

Not anymore. It is a CORPORATOCRACY.

You know what? We don't have to tell you idiot Libs what things cost. We will figure it out and you can sit of your frkn couch and collect wellfare. Leave the governing up to people who actually care about this country. Repeal Obamacare and Let the people who insure us decide what care we get. I'm sick of these sob storie's "my wife got sick and United dropped our policy". Well maybe you should of bought insurance before she had symptoms.

The house tried to pass a bill that would have required the members to tell us if they were going to take the government health care plan that the members get as a perk for being elected. In other words free care for them and their families. The republirats killed it. They want the best for themselves, and nothing for the middle class and working people.

George Washington was a liberal, you fool. You don't even have the ability to think about things any longer. America is a liberal idea. Got that?

Youkili< you have zero credibility because there is "NO GOVERNMENT health care plan." If so please cite your objective, nonpartisan source for others to peruse. Secondy, the health insurance that is available is not free. IF you believe otherwise again, please cite that source of your information.

If you understand how the CBO works, it's not about trust. CBO conclusions are based on the assumptions they are furnished with. It's garbage in garbage out. If the "assumptions " are biased, eroneous or just plain wrong, CBO conclusions must follow suit. You certainly can trust whomever you choose, but there is a factual, economic reality that unless we rein in government spending, restructure government and civil employee pensions and benefits and entitlement programs, we are on an unsustainable path. The healthcare system needs reformation. Unfortunately, that's not what we got with Obamacare. The Democrats spent an inordinate amount of time "dealing" to get it passed and ignored the economy and jobs. Surely a vote to repeal, consistent with public sentiment regarding the laws unpopularity is appropriate. it sends the message that the reform needs to and will be fixed.

The House and the Senate is the only place where you can get 'paid' three or four times for the same 'job'.

abolish lobbying!!!!!!

It's not theatrics. The bill will be repealed, I'll bet my bottom dollar. There will be no veto.

So kedbob you would rather see the Insurance Companies Gouge your Fellow American Citizens. Who through no fault of their own might have a Pre-existing Condition, Allow Regular Americans who are able to keep their children on their Health Insurance Policy in these Dire Tmes of Economic Hardship. Are you as Cold and Unresponsive as the Republican Party. The same Party who couldn't give a Damn about the Hard Working American Family trying to get by.

This Bill although not perfect is a start. A better start than being gouged by Corporate Executives who could not careless about the Average American Family.

This is a charade by the Republican Party on Promises to the Tea Party that will never be kept. But wasting our Tax Dollars on the Charade they intent on pulling on the American People.

The Congressional Republicans know this Bill will never be repealed. But you can sit back and enjoy the Show.

The true war debt has been hidden and unfinanced (Where were the pay as you go Repubs then??????? ) for the last ten years. Just wait for that 'check' to hit the account.

You are so right and no one brings that up when they talk of cuts to the deficit . I keep waiting to hear some one say what you have stated . The media is so scared of repukes and t bag ers.For 2 years the pukes blocked progress and the media leads with stories like Democrats dont get anything done , democrats are unpopular , democrats dont provide change as promised . They always put dem s in negitave light and pukes like they fight for Americans they never show them as the crooks and heartless self serving thieves they are.

Fire, my impression is not that the republicans were resistant to aspects of the bill, they were resistant to anything at all.

The fact that they immediately started with the "death panel" and "killing granny" stuff demonstrates to me that their objections weren't genuine.