Face it, this anti-government, anti-immigrant, white male with a gun, from Arizona no less, who "targeted" Gifford (like Palin), is more like a tea party member than a progressive. Just deal with it!

David

I hope you don't own any guns.

yep, Fox news will say anything to protect their own butts. Everyone knows this is a right wing talking point to deflect criticism.

So All of the Hate filled, violence laced rhetoric this ignorant windbag spews has no impact on these sick people attacking her "enemies." Yet, some one saying her rhetoric is partially to blame is inciting violence. Can anyone one say, hypocrisy!!!

Again the right accepts no responsibility, yet whines like a 4yearold when they feel threatened. Hypocrites!!!

It's always interesting that those who condemn the "political rhetoric of the Right" then immediately launch their own highly charged rhetoric from the left. I don't recall any such condemnation when people were calling for acts of violence against Bush or Cheney.

I seem to remember something about 'the pot calling the kettle black'.

Palin was NOT a victim, but she acts like one.

Gifford's husband is in emotional pain....and the ugliness of the way divisive rhetoric has diminished our civility has overwhelmed him.

Intentionally or not, the crosshairs on his wife put a link to this murder and maiming.

Astronaut Kelly had to feel sickened when the Palin target list came out 10 months ago and specifically named his bride.

His whole world, his wife's condition, his career has been altered.

Instead of offering condolences, Ms. Palin has painted her egotistical self as a VICTIM.

Was there a clear link between all the daily bombastic rhetoric from pundits and politicians....to the pre-meditated murder?

Probably not.

This was a mentally ill man whose "freedom of free speech" made him no crazier looking than those who incite violence with their "freedom of speech" words.

For those of you who saw nothing wrong with Palin's March 2010 crosshairs posting, I think you have become woefully desensitized.

Bad Behavior is Bad Behavior.

That posting accomplished NOTHING good.

Palin's E I G H T MINUTES of whining is disgusting.

Ms Palin,

Why don't you go away and do what you do best: video tape yourself shooting at animals from a helicopter. Or pose next to a dead shot moose and claim you shot it.

Please leave politics to the adults because every time you open your mouth, garbage comes out.

Isn't there a bridge earmark that can be built in the middle of nowhere that you can be for, before you are against it?

Aren't there some more stories you can tell about how President Obama is out to get rid off old people with his death panels?

Don't you have a place to go like Fox News to preach how you are against big government while, her state gets back $1.84 for every dollar it pays into the U.S. Treasury and that's more than most states. This is a state that preaches right-wing libertarianism while it practices middle-class socialism.

Isn't there some people you can tell not to retreat but to reload?

This hypocrite will preach to us what is right and what is wrong?

Not to mention him spouting off about how the constitution gives him the right to turn a paper in later than the rest of his fellow students. Tea-party members are quick to rant about the constitution giving them power to do whatever they want.

I do not watch Fox news, but often times if you turn on the tv to Fox you will hear the exact same argument, word for word, come out of tea-party types that you do Fox political pundits.

Currently their tactic is to deflect blame from themselves.

Oh and btw david, my Grandpa fought in WWII, my Dad in Vietnam. Both of them are quite liberal and you are a discredit to their service to this country when you constantly talk of over-throwing the government and label their views as "unamerican"

There is a huge difference between civil debate and the hate filled, violence laced rhetoric the right is employing to stir these people up!!

How was the gunman a liberal david?

He was registered independent

He was anti abortion

he was anti immigration

Sounds like a con to me.

A leader should know how to select his/her words in order not to bring gasoline to a fire. A leader should always bring cold water to a fire. sarah palin once again shows that she is not leadership material. She should withdraw and go be a mother for her children or get a career that does not require much leadership skills. She comes across more like a bully instead of a leader and it appears that her answer for everything involves cross-hairs, bullets and guns. Politics is not like hunting season and you can't go around making shooting gestures in your speeches like shooting animals from helicopters. Like I said, she appears more like a bully than a leader.

Poor thing, David, you still believe what this woman with a "nails on the chalkboard voice"? She's always just blaming everyone else, poor little me attitude.

The hasty opportunistic and hateful material that spewed these pages (regarding Palin),that rode the blood of fallen Americans from a lunatics imagination, could only be proof of the real work that must begin in bringing civility back to social political structure in segments of our society. Too many claim to want peace and care for others - except if the 'other' doesn't agree with their social or moral values. That's hypocricy.

In a way, the people that jumped on the posse wagon for Palin's head immediately after this tragedy to judge her libel are no better than the folk that would show up to funerals and decry 'judgement' on fallen innocents to trumpet vintictiveness from God.

David,

Are you serious? How about every large reputable newsmedia organization in the country! Unless of course, the right-wings nuts are already talking conspiracy theories....

There is no place for political rantings, blame or otherwise here. And there was no reason for Sarah Palin to add fuel to the fire.

Time to grieve, move on and edge towards civility.

God forbid the media pay attention to ANY OTHER PERSON! "Look at me! Look at me!" Way to make a terrible tragedy about yourself. Pathetic self-obsessed wacko, you are Mrs. Palin.

I don't care how you justify yourself, the media spins things about EVERYONE, not just you. There is no reason you need to respond to every single statement ever made about you. It makes you look completely pathetic. Go. away. FOREVER!

I love how the libs here are claiming that that we all need to stop with the "hate" rhetoric and then in the next sentence allude to how much they hate Sarah Palin.

Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y?

I knew that you could.

This piece of garbage is just that - garbage. It is time she went back to Alaska and just faded from view. Words have consequences and any intelligent person knows you don't inflame those whose stability is in question. Beyond that, it just shows poor character to put bulls eyes and cross hairs on your opponent. Palin is lacking in character and intelligence and her comments show just that. Please stop covering this filth. She is not worth it.

All one need do is look at the facts as discovered so far. 3 Years ago he asked the congresswoman a question that she couldn't answer. Granted, I thought the question was pretty dumb from the get go. BUT, in his mind, that was the event that started the ball rolling. Now, I've worked with mentally disturbed juveniles in a transportation capacity. I've also noticed very few, if any, medical types posting on this shooting. If you ever work with troubled individuals, you would know that they create their own "trigger". They might not like what you wear, what you say, how you walk, how you talk, anything at all will set them off. They could care less about telescopic sights. Most don't know who the President is, what year it is, what day, and they don't care. When enraged, these juvi's have great strength and they will attack you in a moment's notice. Yes, they will hurt you and kill you. IF the shooter was ever charged with or convicted of a felony, he wouldn't have been able to buy the gun. If he was ever institutionalized, probably not. He might have got the wrong flavor ice cream one day. That's all it takes.

Partisan politics aside, I feel Ms. Palin needs to understand the importance of "nuance". While I do not specifically blame her in any way (and yes, the blame ought to be squarely positioned on Loughner's shoulders), her rhetoric has been inflammatory and derisive. I would like to see her accept responsibility for her words, and offer her sincere condolences to the families involved. If she were to accomplish that, she would have my respect, and presumably the media frenzy surrounding her would end. Of course, that begs the question of using this situation as an opportunistic ploy for further media attention, as nearly all politicians understand the benefit of that!

My God, the memorials are today and Sarah Palin feels the need to redirect attention to herself with an 8-minute video on her favorite topic: how everyone victimizes Sarah Palin.

Did anybody bring their Palin-to-English dictionary? I can't find mine.

Ok, blood libel means: refers to a false accusation or claim that religious minorities, almost always Jews, murder children to use their blood in certain aspects of their religious rituals and holidays.

Now what does that have to do with anything here?

Where did Palin graduate from again?

A hate monger speaks and deflects attention away from her hate and Riflescope Killing Cross Hairs

Mrs. Gifford may survive while at least 6 dead and others are in critical condition. She was one of many that the vicarious murderer Palin put a rifle "scope cross hairs" onto to her district, on a district map of the United States. You would be naive, unacknowledged maybe just not a "worldly" (no crime in that) person not to take the implication of such an act from a national political figure that relishes in killing as something other than a call for action than what is intensively suggested (murder and mayhem).

We can down play this as to be the interpretation of the reader only (the shooter) and no overt call for murder is mentioned. The symbols (speak for themselves, come on now), the actual killings as filmed and shown throughout the nation of this self-promoting money hound (Palin) killing harmless animals for sheer pleasure from a helicopter, not even doing the work of a real hunter (Palin killing from a helicopter) is what it is. What manner of real game hunter is this? Well the question is what is it? I suspect most of America has a difficult time wrapping their heads around a real hunter and a pleasure seeking sadistic gratifying killing from a helicopter and confuse this as though a real game hunter was at work and not a sadistic killing machine (Palin) seeking self-aggrandizement.

So flimsy a façade and so gullible the weak minded this ladies and gentleman is no hunter only a sadistic pleasure seeking killer. This brash attack of detractors is a weak attempt to diminish her role in fostering the mood of hatred and no where does she explain the direct implication of putting rifle scope cross hairs meant to pinpoint the bullet that will kill the subject within those rifle cross hairs. The are meant for one thing and one thing only which is to kill with deadly accuracy there is no other rational explanation. The connotation of fixing these cross hairs onto a person or a congressional members district means they are targets. What rational explanation could possibly be offered up? Yes, I read her lame excuses meant to hoodwink us yet again to rearrange her persona for the moment, that which will deflect from the bulldog image to one of love and compassion for her adversaries to be a person of polite and well mannered discourse.

Palin's flimsy prepared defense of the of the which cannot be defended no matter her appeal to bring Ronald Reagan into this, the woman knows no shame is incapable of seeing and appreciating the deadly national hysteria she has helped to create with slogans of “we need to take back our country”. This woman is unhinged from reality and her role in creating the atmosphere of a national hysteria she has had a large part in creating. The use of the trite and adolescent excuse that it is the person acting alone that is responsible deflects from the larger question of creating a national atmosphere of “we need to take back our country” mentality.

She, Palin, is not solely responsible but she is a major player and now one of our national leaders. The only national leader I know of that puts on her national website, which goes around for the entire nation to see the use of a rifle scope killing appendage to the rifle to better perpetrate the act of killing. She is the only one that put this out for the entire nation to focus on these targeted congressional members of whatever political party, the political party is of no concern to me I am an independent what do I care of a political party the message is clear these people are targets. I would think she would be contrite and help to heal the nation but that would take a person of greater moral courage than this woman is capable of. No she now counter attacks deflects and makes excuses and even hauls in Ronald Reagan to shield her from her misdeeds and the hysteria she has had such a large part in creating. So what is new, she does not even mention she was wrong to have fixed a rifle telescope cross hairs upon the members of national prominence, namely our duly elected representatives.

She is a quitter and liar unabashed self promoter after the almighty dollar at every turn. I leave her for you to judge I have made my estimation of the moral and compassionate type person that puts cross hairs on the backs of real people and makes lame excuses and offers no apology. You are free to form your own judgement. I have mine.

Good Day and Good Luck

I have yet to see how any whiners on this board are any different than what you are saying Palin is!!!!!!!!!!!!

This shoot er was also active with move on.org . How are you liberals going to spin this?will you just ignore,and hope nobody will notice.....

condemning those who blame political rhetoric for what happened in AZ, Woman you are sick sick sick. You just proved to me that you Beck, Hannity and the rest of the folks at FOX live in some fairytale world .

Instead of offering condolences, Ms. Palin has painted her egotistical self as a VICTIM.

Actually she did offer her condolences the day of the shooting and then remained silent until this video.

Let me make it clear...I am no Palin fan...not even close. I think she will be the death of any chance of getting Obama voted out in 2012. But, it is hysterical to read these posts from day to day about her. When she offered her condolences....people on here bitched about it. When she remained silent while people on here and in the press did everything short of arresting her as an accomplice to this crime.....people on here bitched about it. Now she comes out to defend herself and people on here bitch about it. MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!! You can't have it both ways. Is she an idiot....I think so. But I do feel sorry for her in some ways....no matter what she does...ever.....all the same people on here will bitch about it. She could save a baby seal from being clubbed to death and someone on here would bitch that she caused fur prices to rise.

Point being.....however you feel about her.....at least be fair about it. Quit getting your panties in a bunch if she so much as farts crossways. That has to make for a pretty damn miserable life to sit watching...and waiting.....for her next breath so you can jump on it and tell the world why you think she shouldn't be breathing that way.

Palin is done - she can assume her place along side Father Coughlin and Huey Long in the 30s and Joe McCarthy in the 50s - just another minor historical footnote.

And here she is, in victim mode, saying that others are engaging in "blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence that they purport to condemn, she added."

So the rhetoric of those who are merely pointing out her rhetoric "incites hatred and violence" (to the point of leading others to draw "blood" because of it), but Sarah's rhetoric absolutely, positively, most certainly does not do that same thing?????????

To those defending her......for the millioneth time, can you people not read HER OWN WORDS????????

Most of the posts on this thread are not addressing the article. The subject is: Sarah Palin claims that her (and others) rhetoric has no effect on people.

Think about this sister Sarah. Did Adolph Hitler personally kill any jews ?

No.....but his words convinced a nation to kill millions of jews.

Sarah, Glenn, Rush and the rest of you talking heads need to admit that words can kill. Remember that "the pen is mightier than the sword".

david-1102226

How exactly do you figure this nut-job was a liberal?? Because he liked Nazi's, Marx and Communism?

The right wing wackos and the teabaggers are the racists, bigots that spew hate throughout the nation even since the US elected the first BLACK president. Republicans have been sabotaging every effort of a speedy recovery from the aftermath left behind from "W" with "I hope he fails" attitudes since day one. Any change from the republican "Business as Usual" (that got us in the mess) is classified by the idiots as Communism, Socialism, Fascism or whatever *ISM they can think of.

Furthermore with your asinine spew.. WHY would this "liberal" crazed lunatic attempt to assassinate a LIBERAL MEMBER OF CONGRESS??? One of his own? Why not any other republican hating teabagger? Or one of the many republican crooks in congress??? Wouldn't that make more sense??

Got to love it - first there's a thread here that claims palin is a victim like the people accused of witchcraft in Salem, and now she's claiming she's a victim of blood libel like the Jewish People? I suppose she thinks there's a personal little Auschwitz waiting for her too.

Man, right wingers are some really narcissistic egomaniacs aren't they.

Uhmmmm,

Denton, Can't you see that you are part of the problem? Or are you going to argue that you are actually part of the solution? And the race card......Really? Really?

Sarah Palinis a right wing hate monger who's pulling off one of the biggest con job in America. She has mastered how to generate hate for the sake of money and influence. Palin has the maturity of a rock and the intellect of a pea, but most of all she's a horrible role model for women and children. I feel sorry for her children because listening to her daughter who was on Dancing With The Stars, the negative influence of her mother became evident.

What most here have NOT picked up on is that this shooter's social/agressive/non-sensical problems began AFTER he somehow survived alcohol poisoning (and the concurrent brain damage) so severe that it forced him to withdraw from high school during his junior year in high school (~ 16 yrs old).

Loughner may not ever be capable of "rational" thinking. Aparently, he was a very intelligent child, caught up in drugs and alchohol in high school, and permanently erased his future "trying to be cool" one day at school. Now he possesses an intelligence with no mode of expression .... enough to indicate it is present, yet trapped in a non-linear world of chaos where images and thoughts penetrate through to him, yet get as twisted as a corkscrew once inside.

He is an only child ... barely survived alcohol poisoning when he was 16 ... his future was now dependent upon his parents taking care of him, parents who couldnt admit their son, as they knew him was "gone" as the remnants of what was left behind gave them a false sense that he was still with them. Many in society refuse to see "the truth" about their loved ones, ie: kids doing drugs, sexually active, lying to them and hubby/wifey dearest is getting it on with someone else who "rings their bells" a bit more than they do. Those are mere examples ... the possibilities list is endless. Parents lost their one and only child, yet his breathing, walking, talking body persisted with no rhyme or reason in his thinking.

He was NOT capable to chose to be liberal or conservative, right wing or left wing, republican or democrat, happy or depressed, or any other choices we as thinking human being chose every day we have the grace of God to continue healthy, human thinking. What Loughner did have was fragments of thoughts filtering into to a patchwork of thoughts that he couldnt make sense out of ... so the paranoia won. Combine those fragmented thoughts, imagery and hate speech with the paranoia that constituted his "inner world" which could not reason (or even rationalize) with an outer world were people either refused to recognize his deficits, didnt have the means to address (health care, $$$) supervision or rehabilitative treatments, nor had the humanity to care if he was free in society as long as he wasnt near them ... and you get this tragedy. More than 20 families have been affected ... beginning with Giffords family and those 19 others who died or were injured on 1/8/11 ... all those subjected to witness it first hand ... the nation who must deal with it and the causes behind it ... and Laughner's family who really lost their son 6 years ago and just realized it 1/8/11.

The miracle of medicine saved his ghost ... they thought it was still their son ... familial denial and social distancing whicle ignoring the potential dangers ... and then throw in the spewing hate and vitriolic language and all the "gun", "reload", bullets" imagery ... and we can now see this goes way beyond merely politics. Society ignored the needs and potential dangers while feeding a frenzied politcal air while media left their responsibilities behind for their bottom line and played on the feeding frenzy ... and an individual unable to socially function or hold a job to physically care for himself does the unthinkable (somehow to everyone's amazement - more denial and hiding behind the "I didnt do it" mantra) and everyone thinks it is merely politics. UNREAL.

A truly civiled society would have 1) assisted his parents to realize the limitations he had after his brain damage and shown them ways to reach their son in non-conventional ways of normal speech, etc ... 2) would have insisted on his evaluation, not only to return to school, but to be allowed loose within the public arenas of our socity LONG BEFORE MASS MURDER ATTEMPTS on society ... 3) the court system and those "programs" he went through dealing with the drug arrests should have been sufficient for true professionals (not merely paycheck collectors) to realize this person was both brain damaged and incapable to publically interact in society without "safeguards' starting with psychological evaluations and counseling that could have assisted him in "releasing" some of the chaos and paranoia that composed his life.

Our politicians are not legally responsible for how strangers react to their words and "dramatic" expressions, but any true leaders know that there are many out there who, like Loughner, have issues that could easily and quite irrationally bring to reality such "dramatic and intense" imagery and speech being spouted and transported via news media ... and they would tone it done BEFORE tragedy instead of hide behind that sone "It wasnt me" after a tragedy.

As long as we're citing examples of incendiary rhetoric:

Remember Chris Matthews fantasizing on air about seeing Rush Limbaugh shot in the head?

The Craig Kilborn Show superimposing the words "Snipers Wanted" over the face of President George W. Bush.

Nobel "Peace Prize" winner Betty Williams publicly stating her desire to murder President George W. Bush.

British film makers Gabriel Range and Simon Finch making a 2006 movie fantasizing about assassinating President George W. Bush.

Alec Baldwin urging the murder of Henry Hyde, his family, and ALL Congressional Republicans and their families on national television.....

David Guy McKay and Bradley Neil Crowder, two America-hating left-wing terrorists, were arrested by the FBI after conspiring to firebomb Republicans at the 2008 GOP Convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The American Media refused to report the story.

NPR commentator and ABC News reporter Nina Totenberg wishing death by AIDS on Senator Jesse Helms and/or his grandchildren.

Julianne Malveaux publicly wishing death on Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Obama:“They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”

Obama to His Followers:“Get in Their Faces!”

Obama on ACORN Mobs:“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

Obama to His Mercenary Army:“Hit Back Twice As Hard”

Obama on the private sector:“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

Obama to lib supporters:“It’s time to Fight for it.”

Obama to Latino supporters:“Punish your enemies.”

Obama to democrats:“I’m itching for a fight.”

All from the LEFT, I might add.

Sarah "crosshairs" Palin

I would love to see you refudiate Rep Giffords statement to her face

"We need to realize that the rhetoric, and the firing people up and ... for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, the way she has it depicted, we're in the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action..."

- Gabrielle Giffords

PS: why is Palin trying to claim "no responsibility whatsoever" from this tragedy emerging and at the exact same time trying to garner center stage, public pity and publicity out of this tragedy.

This attention whore has gone lower than she has before .... to seek center stage on the very same day several of the victims families are dealing with the aftermath of this tragedy ... 6 in particular who are actually burying their loved ones. If she had to attempt to squeal for some attention, couldnt she have at least waited ONE MORE DAY and let those families have some honor before her sqealing.

She is no better than Phelps and his gang of terrorists ... anything for attention no matter who they step on or who they hurt.

At the rate this country is declining and being separated by politics another Civil war maybe just around the corner, and right now this could very well happen, read about the Civil war, people think it was about slavery but it was more than just that ....

very well said sreeeeminglib

"If none of "you Palin supporters" have a problem with what she did, perhaps you won't mind if I print out some google maps aerial photos of your neighborhoods, overlay some targets on "you Palin supporters'" houses, and then post those pictures around your neighborhood. Who would have a problem with that? I'm betting money every one of "you Palin supporters" would."

Well, just one little problem with that . . . the Democratic Party already did exactly that in 2008. Funny the way the media is not reporting that, isn't it?

"no where does she explain the direct implication of putting rifle scope cross hairs meant to pinpoint the bullet that will kill the subject within those rifle cross hairs."

And where exactly does the Democratic Party explain its use of rifle cross hairs targeting Republican districts in 2008?

You libs are so outrageously hypocritical and self-deluded it boggles the mind.

All of you talking about how Palin is just seeking attention with this statement are being very disingenuous. She offered her condolences on the day of the shooting then stayed silent for three days while the liberals in the media attacked her, alluded to some kind of blame on her part ( even though the things they accuse her of are nothing less than the exact things Democrats do regularly ), the liberals in the media mentioned her every five or ten minutes for three days, practically begging her to make a statement, then when she finally addresses those three days of hate filled attacks against her by the left after she remained silent, you say she is just seeking attention.

You liberals may not make any sense at all, and you may be some of the biggest hypocrites that ever lived, but you certainly have nerve, I'll give you that.

"This piece of garbage is just that - garbage"

*No, you liberals would never use hateful rhetoric, would you?

*sarcasm

"Oh and btw david, my Grandpa fought in WWII, my Dad in Vietnam. Both of them are quite liberal and you are a discredit to their service to this country when you constantly talk of over-throwing the government and label their views as "unamerican"."

James, David never said a word about over throwing anything. Where on Earth do you get this stuff from? All he did was state a point of view different from yours and you start spouting this kind of nonsense?

There is so much wrong with all of these liberal posters here, incorrect facts, hypocrisy, etc, that I could spend all day tearing these posts down. Suffice it to say all of the hate-filled rhetoric against Sarah Palin you liberal-progressive types are spewing are just fanning the flames and may inspire yet another Jared Lee Loughner.

Btw, just so you know, Giffords was a Republican at one time and is a Conservative "Blue-dog" Democrat. Also, the federal judge who was killed was a Republican appointee, so one could just as easily make the case that Msnbc or HuffPo are responsible for this tragedy.

The truth is that crazy people don't care about ideology.

They're just crazy.

Oh, I get it! Recycled hope can call Palin an "attention whore", and Bob can call her a "douche", but if anyone wrote this of Hillary Clinton, they would be banned from this site! Just another left-wing liberal DOUBLE STANDARD! You people are pathetic!

Attempting to connect Palin's rhetoric to the shootings??? Irresponsible and reprehensible, according to the pit bull with lipstick.

Using gunsights as symbols over a democratic districts and imploring her teaparty constituents to "reload"???? Well, not so much, right?

I'd like to see Palin actually accept blame rather than continuously claiming she is a victim. She lies so that she doesn't have to accept that she was wrong. Remember when she used the word "Refudiate" and said it was a typo? Yet she actually said on Fox "Refudiate." Can't make a typo when you are talking. She's a coward.

Rosiy,

you are another one of those who copies and pastes the Presidents "quotes." except that what you pasted is garbage. The so-called quotes are just as good as the video played by Fox News of Sherry Sharrod's speech. EDITED therefore garbage.

But you did bring up a valid point. There was much hate towards Bush. The hate came from Bush's eagerness to send the American sons and daughters to attack a sovereign nation. Many have died and many will die. So yes, to say the least Bush is dislike by many.

The only problem with your theory is that liberals are not gun packing and ready to explode. And that is why you do not have examples of the actual violence on the left side...or at least in comparison NOT AS BIG.

Why did Ms Giffords warn us against Palin's words? Was she psychic?

As a leader, when you hear people chanting that the President is a Muslim, and a terrorist, and foreign born, you stop that. You don’t ignore it, you don’t wink and point, you don’t wave. YOU STOP IT.

No one is saying that these politicians put the gun in the psycho’s hand. But they are responsible for the propaganda that is being spoon fed to their followers.

Did you EVER see Palin admit that she knows that the President is an American? No? Me neither.

Hey Richie, another Civil War? Really? If that DID happen, I wonder who would win. Would it be the anti gun pacifist liberals, or the gun happy conservatives?

I see a number of entries here that are obviously written by people that don't like this woman, never did, and likely never will. It's OK, really, I get it! But I wish that those of you who jump her case so hard would read what you've written before you press "post". Most of you detractors would be pointing to various statements she's made as "hateful" ... yet you fire one equally hateful back?

If you desire a more civil discussion ... and you're really interested in listening and exchanging points ... then simply don't sink to the level that you allegedly despise. In short, only Sarah Palin can control Sarah Palin, and only YOU can control YOURSELF.

Don't be part of that which you dislike ... if you do then you're as much a part of the problem as anyone else.

Just my thought for the day ...

Oak Park Mike - Face it, this anti-government, anti-immigrant, white male with a gun, from Arizona no less, who "targeted" Gifford (like Palin), is more like a tea party member than a progressive. Just deal with it.

What you didn't know before you stuck your foot in your mouth regurgitating the leftist-wingnut talking points about the shooter being a "white male" (others have implied white supremacist or anti-Semite), but the shooter is JEWISH.

Ohh the Leftist-Jewish media forgot to tell you THAT one! Oi VAY! Another attempt to demonize conservatives and Whites. Nice job.

Rosiy,

Excellent post. You just clearly showed the hypocrisy of the Left.

I haven't heard any of them denouncing all this hate speech and incendiary rhetoric from LIBERALS.

And all this hate speech from POTUS is INEXCUSABLE.

Deal with it Libs.

Words are weapons, choose them wisely.

If you teach your kids violence as they are growing up, then you will have a violent and destructive adult. The same applies here with the republicans making suttle threats and whatnot toward the lefty's. When people are watching and listening to the news, Internet and the radio, then these politicians they are listening to become no better than the person that screams fire in a crowded theater.

My God, You idiots never stop do you! No matter what you idiots will continue to point fingers. Ya know what? Who cares about you and your stupid opinions that only keep a false pot stirring.

Amazing, The Dems ignore, even sue , the people of Arizona for trying to defend their homes and families from illegals, but now, never letting a tragedy go to waste,blame conservatives and demand new restrictions and protections for themselves,(but I am sure these noble progressives would never put up with anything like the making of a movie fantasizing about the murder of a sitting President,no sir! oh wait, that's right, they did).

Palin is certainly guilty of one thing-being a joke.

attacking the messenger does nothing to address the message.........a problem the progressive filth has yet to realize.

the darwin theory of thinning of the herd (in a political realm) is sure a nice unintended consequence we all can savor.

Thanks bayllie, One thing the left doesn't understand is that the reason we used military action against Iraq is because of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441. Bush and the UN gave Saddam plenty of opportunity to come clean, but Saddam refused, so we sent in the troops. BTW, anyone who believe that Saddam NEVER had WMD is ignorant of the FACTS of history. Ask the Kurds about it, they'll explain it to you!

Hey Shugga,

Send that advice to POTUS, why don't ya

All of us are experts at practicing virtue at a distance. ~Theodore M. Hesburgh

bayllie

Rosiy, you are another one of those who copies and pastes the Presidents "quotes." except that what you pasted is garbage. The so-called quotes are just as good as the video played by Fox News of Sherry Sharrod's speech. EDITED therefore garbage.

So Bayllie, you think you know garbage when you see it? I doubt it. I'm sure you're one of those libs who are always repeating the whole "Bush lied about WMD's in Iraq" and Iraq is an "illegal war" when the FACT is that the DEMOCRATS also voted for action in Iraq citing H.R. 1441 and several others. Hence it was not "illegal".

There was intelligence that Iraq HAD WMD's, and that was agreed upon by every European nation's intelligence agencies, hence the claim of dangers of WMD's were NOT a lie.

But you keep sticking your head in the sand. Liberals don't need facts.

Gloryhound-848713

All the liberals can't figure out anything else to blame the Tea Party for, so they blame it on someone with no ties to the Tea Party. What ever makes you sleep better at night.

Assaulting woman at a Rand Paul rally, yelling and spitting on our congressman as they made their want into the congressional vote on health care reform, a rant by the tea party leader about blacks and their affinity to welfare and holding picket signs up with pictures of Obama with a bone through his nose. Plenty of things you clowns do to draw your own negative pubclicity - we dont need to help.

Sorry all, but Tea Party candidates took seats in our Government. They are real and they are here to stay.

There have been fundamentalist libertarians for decades - you are not new and unique. What is new is the bigoted seasoning mixed into the libertarian base.

Palin knows all about inciting hatred and violence, but if anyone asks her to stop, she accuses the whole world of picking on her.

I've yet to be presented with any proof that political rhetoric has been in anyway responsible for the Arizona shooting though.

I think every one is missing the big picture why is the hate getting so bad that it causes someone to lose it and go gun crazy , what is happening is class war fare plane and simple and it will get worse with more middle class falling into the poverty brackett, and the poorer getting poorer , you are getting a group of poor poeple that is becoming the majority, in this world , with the lose of jobs , home, out sorcing big goverment , rich getting richer , bank bailed out, and so on , as in the past people only can take so much , and if the government do wake up there are going to be more of this tragic stuff, all we need is jobs jobs jobs , or another word. people need self worth plain and simple I blame both parties , Its a simple salution, butt with man not having any wisdom it will never happen

LOL, FU--ING PALIN! You know, as a conservative, this woman never represented me. But dumb people, and people who yell 'liberals' like its a curse word need representation too! Palin, mastering the art of blaming someone else for what she does.

So you left wing radicals don't get all warm and fuzzy, let me take a related shot at Rachel Maddow. Rachel, who spent a whole show yesterday about gun control, you just DON'T get it. She'll bring up a valid point, like maybe things should be debated to prevent guns from ending up in the hands of psychos like this, and then make it all about the right to own extended magazines, teflon bullets, plastic guns, and so on. Those of you who don't like living in a country where a citizen can own a gun lawfully, and then want to guilt trip everyone when an innocent gets killed, should go live somewhere else. But since you won't I'll just spend my time talking about how pathetic you and Rachel Maddow are.

Anyway, the Palins and Maddows of the world represent the people who finished all their thinking after they heard something from a teacher in high school, and are spending the rest of their lives with tunnel vision, only looking at the facts that support their own, juvenile and blockheaded, point of view.

After a night of drinking, followed by an early-morning argument with his mother, 22-year-old Richard Poplawski put on a bulletproof vest, grabbed his guns, including an AK-47 rifle, and waited for the police to respond to the domestic disturbance call his mother had placed. When two officers arrived at the front door, Poplawski shot them both in the head, and then killed another officer who tried to rescue his colleagues. In the wake of the bloodbath, we learned that Poplawski was embraced dark, radical rhetoric about America. He was convinced the government wanted to take away his guns.

Where did he get his info? Alex Jones.

During a web cast of FoxNews.com proudly paranoid "Freedom Watch," Andrew Napolitano introduced a segment about "what the government has done to take your liberty and your property away." And with that, he welcomed onto the show "the one, the only, the great Alex Jones," who began ranting about "exposing" the New World Order and the threat posed by an emerging "global government."

Waving around a copy of his Obama Deception, Jones warned Fox News web cast viewers about Obama's "agenda" for "gun confiscation" and the new president's plan to "bring in total police-state control" to America.

Jones also noted with excitement that Fox News' Glenn Beck had recently begun warning about the looming New World Order on his show, just like Jones had for years.

Fox News is playing an increasingly erratic and dangerous game by embracing the type of paranoid insurrection rhetoric that people like Poplawski are now acting on. By stoking dark fears about the ominous ruins that await an Obama America, by ratcheting up irresponsible back-to-the-wall scenarios, Fox News has waded into a territory that no other news organization has ever dared to exploit.

What Fox News is programming on a daily basis is unprecedented in the history of American television, especially in the form of Beck's program. Night after night, Beck rails against the president while denouncing him or his actions, alternately, as Marxist, socialist, or fascist. He felt entirely comfortable pondering whether the federal government, under the auspices of FEMA, was building concentration camps to round up Americans in order to institute totalitarian rule. (It wasn't until this week that Beck was finally able to "debunk" the FEMA conspiracy theory.) And that's when Beck wasn't gaming out bloody scenarios for the coming civil war against Obama-led tyranny. In just a few shorts months, Beck raced to the head of Fox News' militia media movement.

The consequences of Fox News' doomsday programming now seem entirely predictable. As Jeffrey Jones, a professor of media and politics at Old Dominion University, explained to The New York Times in regard to Beck's rhetoric, "People hear their values are under attack and they get worried. It becomes an opportunity for them to stand up and do something."

People like Richard Poplawski? FYI, weeks before his deadline shooting spree, Poplawski uploaded the video clip of Beck ominously referencing the FEMA camps on Fox News.

ROSIY....STOP THE LYING....Get out of the Hannity school that teaches how to take a few words out of a sentence and use them out of context....Be careful what you copy and paste. Learn to think for yourself.

British film makers Gabriel Range and Simon Finch making a 2006 movie fantasizing about assassinating President George W. Bush. So now Americans are responsible for what the Brits do?

How many deaths has Beck called for? He 'poisoned' Nancy Pelosi and fantasized about killing Michael Moore.

If Ballots don't work, bullets will?

* Obama: "They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun""If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," Obama told the audience. "Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I've seen Eagles fans.

** Obama to His Followers: "Get in Their Faces!""I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.

** Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!".......I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I'm angry," Mr. Obama said, his voice reaching a peak seven days after learning of the bonuses given to employees of the American International Group. "What I want to do, though, is channel our anger in a constructive way."

** Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard".....And they screened TV ads and reviewed the various campaigns by critics of the Democratic plan. If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard, Messina(not Obama) said, according to an official who attended the meeting.

** Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick."....NBC's Matt Lauer asked Obama about the criticism that he should spend more time in the Gulf instead of with experts and "kick some butt."...Obama told NBC his deliberations have been more than academic......."I don't sit around talking to experts because this is a college seminar," Obama continued. "We talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose ass to kick."

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean "hand to hand combat"...........A Republican majority in Congress would mean "hand-to-hand combat" on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy, President Obama warned Wednesday…"They are fired up. They are mobilized. They see an opportunity to take back the House, maybe take back the Senate," he said. "If they're successful in doing that, they've already said they're going to go back to the same policies that were in place during the Bush administration. That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here on Capitol Hill."

Obama to lib supporters: "It's time to Fight for it." ...."When it comes to taking a punch, I don't know whether you're Muhammad Ali or Floyd Patterson," Axelrod wrote to Obama in a November 2006 memo reported in a new book that reprises the campaign by Washington Post political reporter Dan Balz and former Post writer Haynes Johnson. Now Obama supporters are wondering about their man. If they're to see what he's made of, Obama has to first get in the ring. Forget the niceties, it's time to fight.

Obama to Latino supporters: "Punish your enemies.".."If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,' if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it's gonna be harder and that's why I think it's so important that people focus on voting on November 2."

** Obama to democrats: "I'm itching for a fight."As fellow Democrats accuse him of caving in to Republicans on the tax cut deal, President Obama is repeatedly promising them that he will fight the GOP aggressively when it takes over the U.S. House and adds senators next month. "I will be happy to see the Republicans test whether or not I'm itching for a fight on a whole range of issues," Obama said last week. "I suspect they will find I am. And I think the American people will be on my side on a whole bunch of these fights."

All from the LEFT, I might add. Why don't you give me a real list of incendiary things that the politicians on the left said compared to the right? Try a little honesty....

Rosiy.....stop repeating the BS.......

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik had told the TODAY show Monday that political rhetoric may have contributed to Loughner's actions. "I think the tone of rhetoric that's occurred in this country over the past couple of years affects troubled personalities," he said.

Here is the Sheriff, who doesn't follow the law, (re: Illegals,) and "doesn't know the criminal history of Jared," making speculative comments concerning something he has said he didn't know anything about. What a hypocrite! Had he spent even 10 minutes on the Internet, he would realize how wrong his comments are.

He has WAY overstepped his role as Sheriff and has become an embarrassment to the rest of the Sheriffs in the US. He is the one who should resign and fade into the background, not Palin.

Blaming Palin is becoming an incredibly sick joke to the rest of us. (The majority of America think you are dead wrong in your "assessment.") It is nice to be able to week out the delusional from the rest of those on the vine. Your lack of comprehension of what really happened is what is truly sad. What are you going to do when this happens again? (As it will, since the basic problem has not been fixed.) How many folks do you have on the short list to blame other than the person committing the crime?

Why keep talking about Palin if you dislike her so much? This shooting happens and the first thing that comes out is Palin's rhetoric was the cause. Really? For my taste, she lost all credibility when she stepped down as Alaska's Governor (i.e. quit). She probably would have faded by now had she not become the poster child of "everything wrong with the tea party/republicans/conservatives". Oh well...keep putting her on your pedestal of disgust and hate and you'll keep seeing her smiling face everywhere.

NBC and their bias REPORTING seems to want to ignore: (from Vegas Yank)

* Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

* Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”

* Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your? enemies.”

* Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

* Obama: "They Bring a Knife...We Bring a Gun"

* Obama to His Followers: "Get? in Their Faces!"

* Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!"

* Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard"

* Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks... so I know whose ass to kick."

* Obama referring to Republicans as"the enemy"

Democrat map also featured crosshairs which is provided in screenshot
democratunderground.com put crosshairs on Sarah Palin, provided in screenshot

ISN'T IT TIME AMERICANS STOPPED BLAMING EACH OTHER AND OFFERED/TRIED SOLUTIONS for OUR COUNTRIES PROBLEMS!

as a whole, you LIBS/Progressives are extensively EMBARRASSING yourself over this CRISIS!

QUESTION to ya: WHY is it under Conservative leadership when 9/11 happened; America UNITED maybe the MOST we ever have. YEP, no blaming or DEFLECTION like YOU GUYS are ranting here today. THAT (9/11) was only 9 years ago.

SO FAST FORWARD TO 2011. NOW, under LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE leadership (or the lack there-of), when a CRISIS takes place, YOU GUYS want to be DIVISIVE and FURTHER tear apart AMERICA.

WHY????

I'm sorry David, but the calls to violence have come EXCLUSIVELY from the far right. The blood lies solely on their hands.

Maybe Palin's topic should have been "What kind of rhetoric should be blamed for the 480-plus murders in the city of Chicago in 2010?" Of course, then we'd have to call out the Democratic politicians who have been in charge there for generations, and maybe even some racist preachers who argue that discrimination and poverty are the root causes of crime.

Why does the American left fear Palin and her family? The more she's attacked, the more popular she becomes. Face it, blaming her for the attack in Tucson is like blaming the Beatles for the Tate/LaBianca murders.

I've never pictured myself voting for Sara Palin but I will admit I love seeing her get these left wing nut cases all in a tissy. In this case they got in a tissy with out her doing a thing. Their sort of like the guy at work who brings his X into every disscussion about anything. He has so many issues with his X he can't find the strength to move on. Speaking of which this David dude on here must really have some issues he's dealing with. I would not be supprised if he works for the post office.

All I have to do is read all the posting about what happened in Tucson and I see perfectly well why I no longer am apart of the "two party system". Both parties are to blame and there is no real difference in either side.

Pretty sad really.

"vigorous and spirited public debates"

Those are fine words -- and part of our American system. Indeed, we need vigorous and spirited public debate.

What we don't need is incitement to violence. Words are powerful things, and many of those who wield them are either ignorant of their effect (as I suspect Palin is) or doing it with purposeful and murderous intent (as in okwhynot's example of Hitler and the Holocaust).

In this nation, we balance our RIGHT of free speech with the RESPONSIBILITY of the consequences of said speech. That's why we have libel and slander laws and why it's illegal to "incite" to riot.

We also need to police ourselves ... to the MAJORITY of you posting up here -- before you revile Palin, Obama or any of the pundits any further -- LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE SPEWING! Our politicians and media are a reflection of ourselves, not the other way around.

In the past few days, I've issued a challenge -- that the posters on Newsvine lead the way in RESPECT and CIVILITY ... for those two concepts are the partners of a "vigorous and spirited public debates" .

Up to the challenge people??? Somehow I doubt it ... after reading just this single thread. And to you all ... I say SHAME. You are as much a part of the problem as the politicians and pundits you revile! Until YOU change YOUR attitudes -- don't expect those who YOU elect or who YOUR read (or watch) to do so!

"Blood" libel? There you go again...

i know, seriously. It's as if this woman just can't help herself. 1st degree moron she is...

David, you are one sick puppy! When 9-11 happened we DID unite...after the Preisdent came out of hiding. And those conservatives managed to alienate most of the WORLD because of their actions....or inactions. Libs and cons are the problem. They keep calling each other names instead of being real Americans and focusing on solutions. Anybody believing that libs OR cons are worth more than fly snot don't have a grasp of reality. Loudmouth empty-suits like the Tundra Twinkie are responsible because they know there are legions of mentally-challenged bufoons out there hanging on their every rant. Denying it doesn't make it so. Denial is the base product of BOTH these political businesses. Palin might as well be Snooki. The both wrote books and they're both as compelling. Until we man, and woman, up and face the realities of today instead of parroting everything we injest from talkinghead entertainers we are doomed to continue the dumbing of America. We are better than that and most of us know it.

timetraveler,

"Bush lied about WMD's in Iraq" Bush either lied about WMD or he was lied to by his people. You pick which one.

and Iraq is an "illegal war" when the FACT is that the DEMOCRATS also voted for action in Iraq citing H.R. 1441 and several others. Hence it was not "illegal".

Yes, the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002, authorizing the Iraq War.

Many members of Congress voted "yes" after they were presented with the information of WMD by the President.

This was one of the reasons why we went to war with a sovereign country: Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region

The other reason? The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, and those who aided or harbored them.

Two of the arguments used to justify the invasion of Iraq — the capability to produce and/or the possession of weapons of mass destruction and active links to al Qaeda — have been found to be incorrect according to all subsequent official reports.

But I assume that when the President of the United States asks Congress to vote for a war, the Congress takes the information as truthful.

Am I also sure that Bush's: if you are not with us, you are with the terrorists" slogan had some influence on the vote.

So, timetraveler, did Bush lie or was he lied to?

i noticed that all you LIBS/PROGS as you are in YOUR wednesday/daily TISSY(mark) are into SQUELCH free-speech, especially when views SIMPLY differ from YOURS.

DESPICABLE and TELLING, to say the least!

STOP, collapsing ALL comments except for the ones that you agree with. these comments YOU ARE collapsing aren't offensive or in-appropriate. MOVE TO VENZUELA if you disagree with FREE-SPEECH, LIBS.

you (LIBS) should be ASHAMED of your behavior over the past 5 days!

Why is no one talking about the fact that Palin doesn't even know what blood libel means?!

Sarah Palin and all others who try to create havoc by instilling violence in their speech, is "reprehensible"! Her words!! The Tea Party or at least certain parts of it sound full of hatred, anger, and call for others to rise up in that hatred and anger. The country is getting scary beacause of this kind of talk!

There are and will always be those who are unbalanced or unenlightened who will be drawn to this kind of emotion! And therein lies the problem! If you don't think so you study the rise of Hitler and how he took their anger and turned it into a vile hatred!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Is this the goal of those who speak this way?

So, YES you are responsible! All of you who act like 19th century blowhards!

This is the 21st century and let's not go backwards any farther, but blaze forward with integrity in all aspects of life, most inportantly in government! If the everyday Joe sees and hears you all acting like damn fools then you have just given them the green light to act out your words! The more emotion you add to those words the stronger the will to act on their part!

BUT YOU KNOW THIS, DON'T YOU!!!???

timetraveler,

I forgot to add that the garbage I was talking about is the pure manipulation of a quote. Why didn't she paste the entire statement? It's because she was interested only in 3 words: "punish," "your" "enemies"

Here is an example of one of the "quotes": your Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.” is really:

“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re going to punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s going to be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

You can google the rest.

Fletch2-1565982

Excellent post. I could not have said it better!

OBAMA + AYERS + REV WRIGHT + VAN JONES = Peaceful Rhetoric?

Hey David, 9/11 happened because Bill Clinton DECIDED to do NOTHING when these Muslim Terrorists attacked the WTC the FIRST TIME in 1993. I guess he was too busy getting a BJ from Monica in the "oral" office! BTW MSN, before you "ban" me, the terrorists of 911 were in FACT Muslim! Sorry, but it's true!

Months ago, when I first heard Palin's "crosshair" remarks, I was stunned. In my opinion, this carried the message of a strong threat on these individuals' lives, of which the congress lady was one marked in the crosshairs of Palin's threats. Back then, I was very disturbed, and it came to pass, right! And then, the other white trash, Palin side-kick announced she was going to utilize her right to bear arms. She was arming up, right?

Had I threatened someone with a gun, an ordinary citizen, the police would have, at minimum, checked me out and possibly arrested me. The crosshair remarks incited vandalism [windows knocked out] and one dem law maker had his gas line vandalized, and this dem congressman retired!

Freedom of speech is one thing but inciting threats with guns and amno, produce danger to human lives. These kinda threats lather up the wackos. Sometimes, it just takes a little common sense. Expressing views and opinions is one thing, but inciting violence and threatening lives is vastly another. Placing individuals in the crosshairs of your arsenal of deadly weapons is a threat on human lives.

And, this shows another mentality, a Gestapo, storm trooper mentality of shooting someone as a solution and an American value. Why do Americans worship their guns? Pass the bible and the guns -- soooo American!

Why does the left constantly FANTASIZE about Sarah Palin?

Why does the left MAKE UP so many FALSE STORIES about her?

They must HATE her small government individual liberty MESSAGE so much it makes them CRAZY

Palin, mastering the art of blaming someone else for what she does.

Yup. That's it exactly. And idiots buy it.

Why is no one talking about the fact that Palin doesn't even know what blood libel means?!

it's a non-story. She doesn't know what at least half of what she says means...

Again, she's a 1st degree moron and it's a disgrace to all Americans that she's remained on the national stage this long....



The discussion should have been about the shooter NOT PALIN and the fact that Jared Loughren held a grudge against Giffords since 2007 long before Palin came on the nat'l scene. The Democrats have used a target map and used Palin being in their Democratic crosshairs often (google :Palin crosshairs) yet they used this sad tragedy to attack Palin as if they have not been guilty of this very same imagery and wording themselves.

Read the comments on here as an example of the heated hate filled rhetoric directed at Palin for even attempting to defend herself ...THE EVIDENCE SHOWS PALIN'S MAP NOR ANY HEATED POLITICAL DEBATE HAD ANYTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE SHOOTER'S MINDSET.

SO if any harm comes to Palin or her family from this "BLAME PALIN GAME"the FBI will need to check the IPO of every hate filled commenter on this website and others.

LEAVE PALIN'S NAME OFF THIS TRAGEDY IN ARIZONA LEST YOU FUEL VIOLENCE TOWARD HER OR HER FAMILY.
.

A tragedy is never an excuse to sit back and take it on the chin. Let me get this straight, a crazy SOB shoots up a group of people and the liberal media pushes the blame onto Palin. She then waits 4 days to let the mourning take place and then begins to defend herself. Now, SHE is the egotistical one who is in the wrong? You people are bat @!$%# and need to stop this public bashing of a normal politician because she is a rural white woman who doesn't look and sound like you.

Another demonstration of ignorance and stupidity from the queen of 'don't blame me', and her equally challenged right wing sheep. I keep looking for some hint of sanity from the conservative front, but so far there doesn't seem to be any.

This tragedy is an event we should all learn from. Inflammatory political rhetoric is dangerous and irresponsible.

There are people in this country with deranged minds who cannot separate truth from blather. Sarah Palin wants to ignore that reality and blame the media. Shame on her and those who can't think beyond their next happy meal.

MtMike nailed it, the symbols are everywhere. Admit it folks most of us couldn't wait to hear the ethnicity and politics of the murderer so we could start pointing fingers. Rep Griffith was a blue dog demacrat with a mixed bag of positions which didn't give us much fodder for argument until we found out who did it. The defense will go for insanity which could be established based on his psychotic behavior. Insanity is not anyone's fault.

Sarah Palin is a wannabe elitist. These people never take responsibility.

People need to wake up and realize that we are a country of 300 million. About 30% of our population is very very angry. About 10% of that group has social or mental problems that make them unstable. Thats around 9 million people. With our government and the corporate world selling our country down the toilet I would imagine we will see much more of this behavior.

We have the baby boomers in very large numbers entering retirement. Thanks to our government and different sectors of the financial community, 40% or more of the boomers retirement funds are gone. This means that we have a large population of American citizens that remember what this country was like and cant stand what it is becoming. They wont have any money, facing living in squalor they will choose to die in a way they feel is honorable. Death by police officer.

If I was a banker, CEO, senator, judge, or anyone else that has made money by destroying our country... I would be very concerned.

Beware of the politicians. They will use this tragedy to consolidate more power for themselves. We will lose more freedoms. They are already debating it. The cancellation of Obamacare has already been put on hold so they can debate the banning of large ammo clips and the use of data mining to flag potential Loughners...

This stinks of McCarthyism!

Personally, I just hope to make enough money in the next 10 years so I can buy an island. America has a bleak future in my opinion.

ViVa America!~

I guess being Christian, offering condolences to the families, and calling out the media for magnifying the political angle while marginalizing the personal responsibility of the shooter is a criminal act to liberals and progressives. How does the comments made by Palin in any way portray her as a victim? She is simply speaking out against the media for irresponsible innuendo in the tone of their coverage of this tragedy. The shooter is responsible for his actions and motivations, no one else. There is no conspiracy here. Palin did not create a road map with the intention of in-sighting violence. How do liberals and progressives criticize her for her comments when in Washington almost every day a new comment about racism or class warfare is made by members of the current administration? Politics has always been an unsavory business and it always will be. Speaking out against the Bully Pulpit that is the media is not wrong but necessary. Americans have let media become their conscious and given up thinking for themselves.

Wow, there sure is a whole lot of band wagon commentary going on these days. Stop and think for a moment. Would all of those who are blaming "right wing rhetoric" have done so if the liberal leaning media had not brought this issue into our political discourse? This is nothing more than a herd mentality being driven by our elite shepherds in the media. I for one am not falling for it and neither should you. Just say no to the propaganda, be it right or left.

There have been plenty of studies to show there is definitly a link between words/media and violence. I have included just some of them at the end of this blog.

If we really want to change our government the "buck stops here". (famous saying) It means WE NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS.

No one in our current government, no one in the Media, no one in our personal circles takes responsibility for their actions! It is very very rare you find a person with INTEGRITY! They are becoming extinct. I find as a parent today it has become increasingly harder to teach my children this lesson because where ever you turn you will find people pointing the finger at everyone else, "passing the buck", (another famous term). How as a parent will my kids believe me when on tv, in school, on the web, everywhere it is always someone else's fault when someone does something wrong?

In order for our government, our country to become a 'super power' again is to have INTEGRITY!

Was Sarah Palin responsible for the murder and injury of 19 people? Yes and no. Yes, because of her ill concieved notion that words are just that words. She had and still has a moral obligation to chose her words and her actions carefully because she is in the public spot light. We as human beings look to people in the spot light for guidence and leadership. She is a LEADER! (I am a boss, if my employee told a customer misinformation, I am the one held responsible along with the employee because I am the LEADER). She is not responsible for the actions of Loughner. She is responsible for putting thoughts in his or other demented individuals heads. Loughner is responsible for his own actions. He did not have to buy a gun, buy bullets and shoot it into a crowd of people. He made the choice too. (Mental illness? My son is menatlly ill. And I will not allow him to get away with his actions because he is mentally ill! It is NOT an excuse!)

Now back to studies that show words, media, music and games, incite violence. IT IS A FACT! Feel free to read the following links:

Sexualization of Girls Is Linked To Common Mental Health Problems in Girls and Women—Eating Disorders, Low Self-Esteem, and Depression; an APA Task Force Reports - APA PRESS RELEASE

Exposure to Media Violence May Alter Brain Activity in Nonviolent Children

Review of Research Shows that Playing Violent Video Games can Heighten Aggression American Psychological Association

Do games prime brain for violence?

Film ratings for violence labeled as meaningless

New Study Links Television in Teens' and Pre-teens' Bedrooms to Risky Behavior

Study: Kids who watch TV more likely to bully

Generation M: Media in the Lives of 8-18 Year-olds

AMA warns lawmakers about effects of what kids are watching

Prime Time Teens: Perspectives on the New Youth-Media Environment

Alcohol advertising focuses on adolescent girls

Watching Sex on Television Predicts Adolescent Initiation of Sexual Behavior

Violent TV Sneaks Past Parental Control

Study Finds "Ratings Creep": Movie Ratings Categories Contain More Violence, Sex, Profanity than Decade Ago

Effects of Reducing Television, Videotape, and Video Game Use on Children's Health and Behavior Stanford University

Gentile, D. A., Walsh, D. A., Ellison, P. R., Fox, M., & Cameron, J. (2004, May). Media violence as a risk factor for children: A longitudinal study. Paper presented at the American Psychological Society 16^th Annual Convention, Chicago, IL.

The Role of Media in Childhood Obesity

Relation between Parental Restrictions on Movies and Adolescent Use of Tobacco and Alcohol

Video Game Report Card 2004

Rosiy,

Hey David, 9/11 happened because Bill Clinton DECIDED to do NOTHING when these Muslim Terrorists attacked the WTC the FIRST TIME in 1993. I guess he was too busy getting a BJ from Monica in the "oral" office! BTW MSN, before you "ban" me, the terrorists of 911 were in FACT Muslim! Sorry, but it's true!

Don't forget about the 3000 that died on 9/11. In July of 2001, the CIA Director George J. Tenet and counterterrorism chief, J. Cofer Black had given warnings to the White House on bin Laden and al-Qaeda. Neither Bush or Rice were interested in the intelligence. Bush was too busy clearing brush to be bothered.

You wanna compare the two? over 3000 people died that day!

A hate monger speaks and deflects attention away from her hate and Riflescope Killing Cross Hairs

Mrs. Gifford may survive while at least 6 dead and others are in critical condition. She was one of many that the vicarious murderer Palin put a rifle "scope cross hairs" onto to her district, on a district map of the United States. You would be naive, unacknowledged maybe just not a "worldly" (no crime in that) person not to take the implication of such an act from a national political figure that relishes in killing as something other than a call for action than what is intensively suggested (murder and mayhem).

We can down play this as to be the interpretation of the reader only (the shooter) and no overt call for murder is mentioned. The symbols (speak for themselves, come on now), the actual killings as filmed and shown throughout the nation of this self-promoting money hound (Palin) killing harmless animals for sheer pleasure from a helicopter, not even doing the work of a real hunter (Palin killing from a helicopter) is what it is. What manner of real game hunter is this? Well the question is what is it? I suspect most of America has a difficult time wrapping their heads around a real hunter and a pleasure seeking sadistic gratifying killing from a helicopter and confuse this as though a real game hunter was at work and not a sadistic killing machine (Palin) seeking self-aggrandizement.

So flimsy a façade and so gullible the weak minded this ladies and gentleman is no hunter only a sadistic pleasure seeking killer. This brash attack of detractors is a weak attempt to diminish her role in fostering the mood of hatred and no where does she explain the direct implication of putting rifle scope cross hairs meant to pinpoint the bullet that will kill the subject within those rifle cross hairs. The are meant for one thing and one thing only which is to kill with deadly accuracy there is no other rational explanation. The connotation of fixing these cross hairs onto a person or a congressional members district means they are targets. What rational explanation could possibly be offered up? Yes, I read her lame excuses meant to hoodwink us yet again to rearrange her persona for the moment, that which will deflect from the bulldog image to one of love and compassion for her adversaries to be a person of polite and well mannered discourse.

Palin's flimsy prepared defense of the of the which cannot be defended no matter her appeal to bring Ronald Reagan into this, the woman knows no shame is incapable of seeing and appreciating the deadly national hysteria she has helped to create with slogans of “we need to take back our country”. This woman is unhinged from reality and her role in creating the atmosphere of a national hysteria she has had a large part in creating. The use of the trite and adolescent excuse that it is the person acting alone that is responsible deflects from the larger question of creating a national atmosphere of “we need to take back our country” mentality.

She, Palin, is not solely responsible but she is a major player and now one of our national leaders. The only national leader I know of that puts on her national website, which goes around for the entire nation to see the use of a rifle scope killing appendage to the rifle to better perpetrate the act of killing. She is the only one that put this out for the entire nation to focus on these targeted congressional members of whatever political party, the political party is of no concern to me I am an independent what do I care of a political party the message is clear these people are targets. I would think she would be contrite and help to heal the nation but that would take a person of greater moral courage than this woman is capable of. No she now counter attacks deflects and makes excuses and even hauls in Ronald Reagan to shield her from her misdeeds and the hysteria she has had such a large part in creating. So what is new, she does not even mention she was wrong to have fixed a rifle telescope cross hairs upon the members of national prominence, namely our duly elected representatives.

She is a quitter and liar unabashed self promoter after the almighty dollar at every turn. I leave her for you to judge I have made my estimation of the moral and compassionate type person that puts cross hairs on the backs of real people and makes lame excuses and offers no apology. You are free to form your own judgement. I have mine. What is your judement?

Good Day and Good Luck

Uh, David, do you actually speak English?????

Wow, Persevere. There's more hate in your posting here than I've heard out of Palin, Limbaugh, Obama and Rev. Wright combined. Please turn yourself in to the authorities immediately and ask that you be placed on a "not able to buy guns" list. You probably shouldn't be allowed to fly either.

No one person can make another do anything. If the person is hell bent on killing, they will do so.

Sarah Palin is no different than the older generation of Politicians. She has a "direct" way of saying things. That is common for people who "cut to the chase"; They dig their heels in, and are not afraid to tell the truth.

Folks, America is in trouble, but it is not because of Sarah Palin.

We have violent severely mentally ill people running around, who no one can force them into Mental Institutions. How about proposing a New Law to get them admitted?

It's not about Sarah Palin (I don't care for her), but about how we can get the extreme Violence in America to stop. It is no longer Peaceful to live in the US--always watching behind our backs for someone to injure or kill us.

Jared Loughner pulled the trigger. My sadness continues, knowing the little 9 year old girl was shot point blank. A child taken by a subhuman gave no thought to life itself.

No more fingerpointing. It is not Productive.

It is funny that most of the Pro Sarah post are collapsed.

Liberal Leftist Progressive smucks are the worse, and prove it with their vile thought process and hate speech against the Right.

They ignore what the actual people who knew this Mass murder said about his leaning left

and create their own false claims that promote their party line lie.

This is the classic battle of good vs evil.... leftist are the evil ones .. the dark side.

Liberalism is purely to serve as what is wrong with a society and contrast what is RIGHT.

.

It's all about ACCOUNTABILITY. The common thread and theme of the posts from the left is a traditional and recurring one that the individual is not completely personally responsible for their own actions. The left has, does, and ALWAYS will offer excuses, alibis, or mitigating influences or circumstances as abdication, diminution, or absolution of personal responsibility.

If the Loughner is sane, HE, and HE ALONE, is responsible for his actions. And if is insane, then HE is not. I reject and will not accept responsibility for someone else's actions.

Note to Sarah Palin: Stay home and be quiet. You bring nothing of substance to this country. Note to the media: stop covering her. The fastest way to end her political ambitions is to not give her any crediablility. If she wants to pursue her political agenda, let her spend the millions she has made from her hateful rhetoric. Enough of this woman and others like her. I have no hatred for her, just a lack of patience.

BobbyCharles, sucking the radical fumes. He probably thinks he is more sane than the eco-terrorists. Maybe people who categorize either the left or right as evil should look in the mirror some?

The left has a narrative, not unlike the post Oklahoma City bombings, that the right is causing all this hate. They are cherry picking examples to fit that narrative. Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjO6NFLLE04 for how the left really thinks. Read Frances Piven or Bill Ayers if you want to know what the left truly thinks about violence....or read about the protest movements of the 60's and early 70's. The left is all about hate and rage toward anyone they perceive to stand in their way. Sarah Palin stands in their way. For that they will do whatever it takes to bring her down.

@stang You are essentially right on the mark. I f Palin is chosen to run for the GOP, it will surely be 4 more years four Obama. As far as feeling sorry for her, I have little sympathy. Palin goes out of her way to provoke people, not just to express her spirited views. As far as her having any actual blame for the Tuscon shooting, I would say no more than many other politicos, pundits and media types.

As far as the ongoing divisiveness and rhetoric is concerned, I believe that given the nature of political infighting and the proliferation of electronic media where anyone with an Internet connection can become an overnight sensation, it facilitates the ability for the crazies to organize.

@david-1102226, I agree that communities tend to become partisan and start to block posts that may not reflect the majority view on that particular thread. I have witnessed this on both sides. I kind of liken it to people changing the channel. As far as free speech is concerned, not all speech is protected. For example, you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theater, even if you think there's a fire. Similarly, you can't call for the overthrow of the government, or use speech to incite a riot. Many have been convicted for cal;ling for the death of someone. It perhaps can be argued that Palin's aggressive "spirited political debate" called for the death of others with differing political views. I don't really believe this, but it's an argument.

This is so disturbing.

I was hoping that Sarah's bid for 2012 would self-destruct AFTER she won the Republican nomination.

Oh, well, I guess we will have to settle for RomneyCare to be the big issue for the Republicans, but he is nowhere near as funny as Sarah.

Sarah Palin. Really? It's about YOU?? Are you sure about that Sarah? Are you sure it's not about the people shot and killed by this guy?? Oh I know, those mean left wing media liberals mentioned your internet site as an example of the extremeism we're seeing in this country now. And by now every friggin American that can read and or watch TV knows how you feel about being responsible for your own actions. Let's face Sarah, you weren't even responsible enough to finish out a 4 year term as governor. And yes Sarah, the political rhetoric HAS gotten worse since the time of your hero Ronald Reagan. Just because you too involved in yourself to notice doesn't mean it's not true. Sarah, it's time for you to shut up and go back to reality television

As for the posters out here. Yes, you morons it is worse than it's ever been. both you far left and far right crazies need to stop and take a look at what happened here. People died, the 9 year old girl gets to me the most. Did she really deserve to die at the hands of some crazy f'ed up dude that can't tell what's real from the crazy sh!t in his head? Of course not. And yet, you people, you people, all your concerned with is being RIGHT! Good going you heartless bastards. Do you people have any humanity left in your souls at all? the hell with my fellow humans as long as I'm right? Is that it? If that really is it, I would suggest that you people are as messed up in the head as Loughner and need the same mental help that he obviously needs.

God help America if this is the nation we're become.

Bobby Charles:

Why can't they accept and understand that this vile young man, was a severe Paranoid Schizophrenic. Pyschiatrists who are MD's. have all agreed, these are the patterns of this particular Mental Disorder, and behavior untreated.

Schizos make their own decisions. Who made this guy put a death shrine in the back yard with a skull attached. Now did the Politcal Pundits make him do this, also?

Define the caption:

states the following:

Blood libel: A false belief which has endured since the 1st century BCE. It states that members of a religious group kidnap, abuse, ritually murder and sometimes eat the body of a member of another religion. Groups creating this groundless fable include ancient Greek and Roman Pagans, Christians, Nazis, and Muslims. Innocent religious groups victimized by the fable include Jews, Christians, Wiccans, Druids and other Neopagans, and Roma (Gypsies). The hoax exists today mostly among some Muslims (against Jews) and some Fundamentalist Christians (against Wiccans, Satanists and other religious minorities).

AND THIS PERSON IS A LEADER?

Derek

I looked in the mirror just now and I am still RIGHT !

Sorry.... But the left has a serious problem with reality ... but....

Maybe even the left wingers out there will agree that this fellow deserves the chair.

& in this case will support the death penalty law in the Arizona.

Is that the way the wind it blowing in liberal land today?

real packer fan

Wow, Persevere. There's more hate in your posting here than I've heard out of Palin, Limbaugh, Obama and Rev. Wright combined. Please turn yourself in to the authorities immediately and ask that you be placed on a "not able to buy guns" list. You probably shouldn't be allowed to fly either.

Wow, this is a prefect example of what's wrong with you people. Both of you should be comitted to a mental institution. And maybe receive some education on what it means to be an American. Losers.

Note to Irene: Please be quiet.

BTW, having gone back and read through a good number of these comments I'd like a one of the far right crew to point out a post made here by a far left winger that promotes violence, hate or any other strong negitive emotion. I'm not asking the far left to prove the same thing because you far right people are pretty blunt and express you unreasonable hate, rage and anger every other post. I haven't read such hate since I read the writtings of Adolf Hilter for a college term paper.

you people are like a bunch or piranha ripping away the flesh of its prey or rabid dogs not caring who or what is in the way. omg Thanks MSNBC, Krueger, Clinton, CNN

Slow down I am sure there is enough blood and flesh around for you to chew

Blind hate, hope everyone feels better and proud of their meaningful contribution!!!

Your mommy wears army boots!!!! LMAO

NA NA NA Nanny goat!!! LMAO

I did not, did to, did not, did to!!!! LMAO

Look at all the collapsed posts and see who is engaging in censorship ??

I agree 100% with what Sarah Palin said in the video. This is deplorable, finding blame in her and talk radio, etc. for what happened in Tucson. Its plain stupidity.

If you are going to blame her partly for this, why not blame Obama too. He is the one that said "If you bring a knive, we will bring a gun" in one of his speeches. Stupid bunch of hypocrites making posts here.

That man was nothing but a sick sociopath that didn't like the way the Congresswoman answered a question of his and decided to kill her. He probably doesn't even know who Palin is.

At the rate this country is declining and being separated by politics another Civil war maybe just around the corner, and right now this could very well happen, read about the Civil war, people think it was about slavery but it was more than just that ....

Freaky.....I had the same thought this morning. I know there has always been a division between Republicans and Democrats....but it seems like it's so much more deep now and everyone is so ugly to one another. No one is allowed to have an opinion of their own because someone with a differing opinion is standing by to call you a name...and then squash it. I think it's time the whole damn country took a midol and calmed down.

There is no reason for most of the collapsed posts to be collapsed. Most are not inflamatory at all and make some very good points. Who is monitoring this site, Al Gore?

Stang,

I'm not sure if the Midol approach would be all that good for those of us that are "estrogen challenged" :)

But, if you ask me, I think that social media and the blogosphere are a much bigger problem than the rhetoric of politicians. Just look at the posts here. Can you imagine what someone like Lauchner could take away from reading the drivel that passes for "reasonable opinions". I have to wonder how many hits I would get if I did a Ctrl-F search for the word "hate" on this page.........

The irony here is that this guy Loughner believed that there was a conspiracy by the government to control grammar. Most of those advocating for the censoring of the public discourse are only fulfilling this man's twisted logic. Political correctness has already run amuck, the last thing we need is more speech control.

Yes, Sandman, this guy believes that the English Majors are out to get us.

Can anyone point out to me a single shred of evidence that this guy was influenced by Sarah Palin or anyone else alive? From the looks of things he was reading books like Mein Kampf and listening to death metal.

Can someone please post me a link to an image of the crosshairs over Giffords? I have a LOT with the crosshairs over different states, but none where she actually "targeted" Giffords personally. Oh and then can someone show me where Palin actually put this video out for everybody and thus "scream" for the attention to be on her? The only place I saw where she herself actually put it was on her facebook page where it could be viewed by those who want to know what she has to say.

Oh that's right, none of this can be done because she didn't actually do any of those things. But some people just have to have someone and/or something else to blame everything on. That way when they or their loved ones do something bad it isn't their fault, it's society's fault.

Don't get me wrong, I am Palin fan. I think the soda can sitting on my desk has a higher IQ and if she was the only Republican I had to vote for I'd definitely vote Democrat, but I think she has taken some undo criticisms here.

But lets point out some true hate and violence inducing speech from the left:

"I believe in ecoterrorism..."-James Cameron

F*** G*d d**ned Joe the G*d d**ned mother f**king Plumber! I want mother f**king Joe the Plumber dead!"-Liberal Charles Karel Bouley on air

"And then there's Rumsfeld who said of Iraq 'We have our good days and our bad days.' We should put this S.O.B. up against the wall and say 'This is one of our bad days' and pull the trigger.-St. Petersburg Democratic Club

"I want to go up to the closest white person and say: 'You can't undestand this, it's a black thing' and then slap him, just for my mental health."- Charles Barron

These are just some of the shorter ones I found and that took just a couple minutes. The left like to pretend to be peace-niks but the truth is they are just as brutal as they paint the right to be.

I've been brain storming trying to find a solution to this whole mess. Those who claim that the political rhetoric has gotten more hateful lately are clearly ignorant of history. Although I will admit that the ability to view and hear this hate filled rhetoric has increased via the inter-net.

I propose that we control the ability to access these sites by running a background check on those buying computers to ensure they are stable enough to handle the rhetoric. Who knows, maybe we can expand this media control to include televisions and radios. That would cut off most of the hate filled rhetoric on the vine. Just thought I'd add some light hearted sarcasm to the debate.

BobtheBuilder is right! Both sides of the coin are guilty of insiting violence! Everyone has been quick to blame each other and yes this has gone on for years. But now times are more technologically advanced. I think that the reddrick from both sides is appalling.

Could you imagine what kind of country this would be and what kind of government we would have if we all took a step back and really looked at where we are today as a country. Then brain storm on how to fix it. First rule, everyone take responsibility for their actions!

How did this country become one where we pass the buck? How did we get to the point where we blame a "party" vs. the actual person? What happened to us that we are so angry and hateful towards one another?

I propose that we control the ability to access these sites by running a background check on those buying computers to ensure they are stable enough to handle the rhetoric. Who knows, maybe we can expand this media control to include televisions and radios. That would cut off most of the hate filled rhetoric on the vine.

This may very well be another liberal proposal for new law in the house and senate .. The leftist are out of their minds to try and control your morality.

If Sarah Palin is going to quote Ronald Reagan, maybe she should take his words to heart. No, she did not pull the trigger, but her actions MAY have planted a seed for any imbalanced person. It was highly irresponsible for her to put crosshairs on her "targets". This was pointed out by Congress woman Giffords herself. It really does not matter what political affiliation the shooter claimed, a mentally imbalanced person only needs an imbalanced justification. Was it Palin's Fault? Absolutely not. Was she irresponsible in the way she communicated her political thoughts? Absolutely. It would be nice for her to accept responsibility for that and admit that it was inappropriate. But that would be in a perfect world.

The good news in all of this is that Sarah Palin will carry this controversy with her for life, and it will damage any political future she thinks she has.

This is not about political affiliation, or even whether or not you like or dislike Palin. This is more about public people being responsible for what they say or do.

TMD,

You can't be certain this will damage her political future. One would not have thought that Kennedy would have had a future after the Mary Jo Kopekne (sp?) incident, but he spent his entire life in politics. As with Kennedy, she probably already has enough of a political following to weather something like this - particularly since there is no absolute correlation between anything she did and Laughner's actions. The most that can be said is that she could do some things differently. And, although the media might try to make something of it during a campaign, I doubt an opponent would get much traction with it.

BobbyCharles1: I don't know which way the liberal winds are blowing, as I am a conservative. But you, my friend, are not. You are radicalized, and have more in common with those radicals who call themselves liberals (as opposed to the thinking kind) than me, a thinking conservative. You didn't look in the mirror long enough to see you are as much of a problem for this country as some speedboat Japanese whale ship hunter. :P

Congresswoman Giffords warned that there would be repercussions from that map with the gun crosshairs postedwith the list of names to "not retreat" from, "but reload" against.

I hope that when Giffords is recovered sufficiently that she will file incitement to assault/cuase bodily injury/attempted murder charges followed by a lovely multi-million dollar civil lawsuit against S Palin for injuries sustained.

Congresswoman Giffords pointed out what could happen with such vitriol ... and it did. All it took was the incitement and the opportunity. Without both, it would never have happened. All those harmed (or thier families for those deceased) should file similar lawsuits against any and all public entitites who incited violence against Congresswomen Giffords since that is what was the catalyst that placed them in harms way.

Recycled - and your proof of these allegations is????

the courts can decide ... just as they do in slander and libel cases.

Remember, anyone can sue anyone for any reason ... then it is up to the courts to determine who has the grounds and who doesnt.

Yes. Unfortunately that is why our legal system is over-crowded.

@JC -Comparing the Kennedy name to the Palin name is Like apples and oranges. While Kennedy may have been a piece of crap, America had the perception that the Kennedy's were a trusted and strong family. Palin does not have that kind of backing, and certainly does not have the intelligence or pull to rebound from her many controversies. She is her own worst enemy. But that is a bit off topic.

I doubt that we will ever fully make sense of this tragedy. But I believe we as a society could have a lot more respect for our public figures if they could take some personal responsibility for their words and actions. Man up, experience a bit of humility and admit that they are human and don't always foresee possible consequences of their words/actions.

All I can say is that the majority of you people up here DESERVE EACH OTHER, the politicians you elect and the pundits you listen to!

You all complain about MSNBC, CNN, Fox, whatever. LISTEN TO YOURSELVES! It is just plain disgusting!

It's one thing to present a point of view, but most of these posts are simply foul. You name call, you slam each other all in the name of "liberal/progressive" or "conservative".

You idiots -- we are AMERICANS! This mess we are in is OUR FAULT. Instead of complaining about these people DO SOMETHING! Tell the pundits if they don't clean up their act -- you'll change the station! Tell the advertisers too! Tell your politicians they don't work together -- you'll throw them out!

Personally, there are several commentators/stations I don't listen to. I've written the advertisers and told them why as well. There are politicians I've not voted for -- and I've written and told them why.

We don't need to "take America back" from the "liberals/progressives" or "conservatives". We need to take American back from OURSELVES. You want our politicians to behave? Start behaving yourselves!

Derek-381097

BobbyCharles1: I don't know which way the liberal winds are blowing, as I am a conservative. But you, my friend, are not. You are radicalized, and have more in common with those radicals who call themselves liberals (as opposed to the thinking kind) than me, a thinking conservative. You didn't look in the mirror long enough to see you are as much of a problem for this country as some speedboat Japanese whale ship hunter. :P

You might want to go back and read some more of BobbyCharles posts. He's probably more conservative than you. However I'd like to thank you for proving my point about how radicalized both parties have become.

Recycled - and your proof of these allegations is????

On the Internet. It's this cool thing called youtube.

Tomorrow class we'll discuss what "the Google" is.

Sheesh, come on try. Just a little.

Beth-440386

Best post of the day.

However I bet it will fall on deaf hears with this crowd.

Thanks Dave -- I've been trying since all this happened. And you're right -- it IS falling on deaf ears!

Just Returned Safely From Work I am so disappointed in this woman

I have just re-viewed the pitiful depiction of herself as a victim, blaming the American press never mentioning her constant references to weapons of death primarily hand guns and or rifles. “re-load, take aim, take them out, lock and load, cross hairs, bull’s-eye” and more than I care to print on this day. I only want to add the despicable display of humanity of sure-shot Sarah Palin.

She makes reference to what was a slander of the Jewish people centuries ago using the term “blood libel” a most offensive remark associated with anti-Semites. On this day when the nation memorializes the victims she chooses anti-Semitic slander vis-à-vis the seemingly primary target the Jewish congresswoman Mrs. Gifford. This is all about the poor innocent lock and load Palin and she uses the slander of Jewish people with the use of “blood libel” where and when does she ever stop and think of what she says? The effect her weapons laced rhetoric adds to the violence so inherent in American society.

I have read most of the posts on this page and a number of others it seems common ordinary Americans “get it” but the poor Palin so picked on, unfairly by the American press and decent Americans across the board with some notable exceptions escapes totally her cognizance, the atmosphere surrounding the circumstances of this tragedy. Where is the apology for the inflammatory choice of terms she has made her stock in trade? She disappoints me in so many ways words are hard to find as we trace her ballistic laced language she has utilized from the start of her ascendancy to national prominence. She only added to the deep disappointment most Americans have in her constant allusion to violence and weapons. There is not much to add to her own ill choice of words to defend the persona she has made of herself in our nation.

Read her words for yourself this about the victimization of Sarah Palin and the use of “blood libel”, I had to look up the unsavory connotations of this term and can only shake my head again at the lack of sophistication and low life demeanor of a presidential hopeful. What is there left to say? Why pick this day of memorial? I have nothing more to add this woman has said all. I would like to know what more do you need to hear from this woman? Is there more you wish to hear from Sarah Palin?

She'll offer condolences but she will never say "I'm sorry for my part in this"!

Exactly right. I was a McCain supporter until I went to see this vile woman speak after he had picked her for his VP. I didn't know much about her and wanted to let her speak for herself before I made any decisions about her. At one point during her rally, a man standing near me screamed "death to Obama". Palin's response? She pointed at the man, smiled and winked. She's part of the problem with America, not the solution, and it sickens me that she refuses to take responsibility for her reprehensible behavior.

@james, she was one of first to offer condolences.@DHampton, she had no part of the gunman's mental illness. Smoking pot, altars w/skulls, communist rants etc aren't "right wing." What if people were saying liberal attitudes of "if it feels good do it" are to blame? Perhaps...the gunman and his mental instability and drug use are to blame? Would that be too simple? Too much personal accountability?

She has one mode ATTACK! Her team mates called her barracuda, she called herself a pit bull. Conciliation, trust, or humility are not in her personality. This more than her lack of general knowledge is what disqualifies her as a politician and more especially a President.

James - I am sorry but you are 100% wrong. Why all the anger directed at Palin?

Crosshairs over Giffords congressional district.

"Dont retreat, Reload!" - Sarah Palin

And then the whole teaparty she has been called the queen of.

"If Ballots dont work, bullets will!" - Tea-party member Joyce Kaufmen

"2nd amendment remedies" - Sharon angle

I have a question for you what do these tea-party types mean by ballots not working so look to bullets,or talk of 2nd amendment remedies, OTHER than assassination of their political opposition?

Why are you tea-party members so quick to brag about your 2nd amendment right to own a firearm? Seems to me that the person that did this shooting abused his constitutional right to own a firearm so now he has no constitutional right to freedom, the pursuit of happiness, etc.

My point is, the people at the head of the tea-party are the ones who have been bringing up assassination as a political weapon in their arsenal, now its time to pay the piper since someone finally had an assassination attempt who was on the other side of the aisle.

So SP equates an image of cross-hairs over certain targeted districts with the politicians names listed underneath as "vigorous debate"? Is that what this country has come to?

James-546734,

You give her too much credit. She is using this as an opportunity to show everyone how unfairly she is being treated. I think RI put it best: she is acting like the victim.

This video does as much good as the "I am not a witch" video did for O'Donnell. She should just keep her mouth shot.

Palin is off track. She should take personal responsibility not specifically for the Tucson shooting, but for her irresponsible gun-related remarks and the crosshairs on her Democrat-target page. Shame on her for missing this opportunity to "man up" and admit her rhetoric has gone too far and become too violent.

Instead, she complains of finger-pointing by the left. Well, Republicans and Tea Partiers are all about finger-pointing. Their focus is on telling you WHO is to blame for the country's problems and their unhappiness instead of describing exactly what positive actions they believe would help this country and better its people. They truly are The Party of "No."

And for those shouting about "Second Amendment rights," you are ignorant about the exact wording of the Constitution. It gives the right for members of a well-regulated militia to keep and bear arms, not individuals for settling grievances or threatening others.

For many years, the Supreme Court and individual states have kowtowed to gun fanatics and allowed a very broad interpretation of the Second Amendment. But that's not what the Founding Fathers meant when they wrote this carefully worded document.

Certainly Loughner, and most of our country's gun owners, are NOT members of a well-regulated militia, so I don't believe you even have the right to purchase or own guns at all.

When is this country going to wake up (like other more peaceful nations) and turn around the mass, deadly violence caused by people who think guns are the answer to peace or problem-solving? The recent uptick in gun purchases is SICK.

She'll always be an ignorant person, never admitting responsibility for her own lack of civil discourse, which of course makes her a typical politician, be it left or right.

Bill

Because she is a self-serving, self-aggrandizing idiot. There is nothing she won't say or nothing she won't latch onto for political gain. She'll even sell her children to get attention.

She is the reality show version of politics and that's saying something since politicians regularly do things no one in their right mind would do.

I don't hate Palin. I just wish people would stop taking her seriously. She's what's wrong with America. We've become a nation of clowns and buffoons with no serious solutions for anything beyond having our photo taken and appearing at the right soiree. She's Snookie masquerading as someone with something to say. She's a "Real Housewife of Wassila." Nothing matters as much as keeping her face in the media.

How can any of you, no matter how misguided imagine this is a good thing for you, your children or this country?

James...your a blooming idiot. I don't know why you uber-liberals hate Palin so much. She could come out with a cure for Cancer and you would still find fault with the woman. The tragedy that took place in Arizona has absolutely nothing to do with Sarah.

In all parts of every society there are a few screwballs who do terrible things. Is that so hard to accept and understand?

How about pointing your anger towards the media for over sensationalizing tragedy and falsely reporting that the congresswoman was killed in its initial reporting?

That is so very true!

Palinhipocracy:

Yeah, I pretty much feel the same way. I was kind of a fence sitter about the past presidential election until shortly after the VP candidates were announced. When I saw all of the countless media reports about how Palin did nothing to stop the chants and comments of her followers that advocated for the death of Obama, I realized that she either silently agreed with them or just didn't care about doing the right thing because she was desperate for votes. Either way, that really freaked me out and it horrified me to picture her as President (in the situation that McCain passed away from age while in office).

If Palin is guilty of inflaming some loonie with a gun, we better lock every politician in the joint up. Not only that, 90% of the people posting here need to go with them. If somthing ticked me off, it wouldn't be Palin's crosshairs, it'd be reading the remarks of the hate mongers on this blog. The irony of ironies. Now, lash out at me, Don't you just love it?

By the reasoning here we can conclude the following:

> JD Sallinger was responsible for John Lennon's murder

> Martin Scorsese was responsible for the Reagan assassination attempt

> Marilyn Manson is responsible for teen suicide

> Rock and Roll is responsible for juvenile delinquency

That is, apparently, how it works in the liberal world.

Slim/Louis . . . it IS true. It was shown on "LIBERAL TV" networks during the '08 campaign. (Don't know if it was on Faux News, cause I only watch that comedy channel when I need a laugh). At least McCain reprimanded the old ditz in the red dress that made a similar false comment about Obama during the election.

James, you forgot to mention Bachmann, didn't she say people need to be armed and dangerous?

Q22,

JD Sallinger go on national TV, and did not do rallies where he, over and over, taunted his listeners with words like Let’s take our country back!

Like it was ever stolen from anyone. Everyone in office was and is legally elected BY THE PEOPLE. Who is she taking this country back from?

Where do slogans like this one come from: The Blood of Jesus against Obama/History Made 4 Nov 2008/A Taliban Muslim Illegally Elected President USA: Hussein?

Palin has shown her true lack of class by trying to paint Obama as a Muslim. She is trying to use bias against diverse people to drive people to her Tea Party. Of course, referring to the president's full name is on its face not a slur. But when Palin uses the president's full name, it's not with respect, she is doing so to suggest the president is something other than American.

What I find most unconscionable is the refusal of the Palin tandem to publicly condemn the cries of "traitor, liar, terrorist and (worst of all) kill him! That could be heard at Palin rallies.

It truly is too bad someone like yourself is allowed to post an opinion on the web. It is even worse you are (probably) allowed to vote. Palin DID NOT pull any trigger and it is absolutely ludicrous to imply otherwise...

TMo3

Neither did Charles Manson.. Should we let him out and give him a home next to you?

Excellent!!!!!! Very well said and you hit it right on the nose. She needs to go away, back to wherever she came from. I hate to say Alaska because it's such a beautiful state.

Anyone who thinks radio talk caused this is a complete idiot! The left spews more vile than Fox, Limbaugh, Palin, and Beck put together! Notice there aren't any examples of any hate by the right, but I can give many examples of hate from the left. How about the movie depicting Bush being assassinated! How about chirs (down my leg) matthews wishing someone would shoot a co2 cartridge into Rush's head and explode him like a balloon! How about odumbo saying to his supporters to bring a gun if his opponents bring a knife! You don't have to go further than the postings here to see how fanatical and hateful the left is!

Will we remember all this in 2012?

Keepertrout, You're right, Manson just cut the hell out of everything in sight. Didn't know you were there, Sorry!

do any of you anti palin zealots realize the degree of hypocrisy you conduct yourselves with?

the level of hatred spewed is EXACTLY what all your so called "leadership" is demonizing conservatives over.i'd personally like to thank every one of you for accelerating the process of flushing yourselves into the cesspool of irrelevancy.

so flush yourselves already so the adults can fix the mess you and yours seem so intent on escalating.

Sarah didn't pull the trigger, but the sherif 's idiocy might give the defense enough ammunition to free the insane killer! Liberalism is a mental disorder!

The liberals are the ones who want to enact a law everytime someone disagrees with them. Liberals tend to think that the average person does not have the sense or knowledge to lake care of themselves. The hate speech I am seeing here is coming from pro liberals (the left). I have always heard that two wrongs don't make a right. But acordong to the liberals, three left do. In a forum of two wrongs, three lefts for am majority and can enact a law that will abolish free speech. As in cities like Chicago, take any means of protection from the law abiding citizens. Where's the perpatrator? Officer, they went that way. Four people shot dead in their home and the only ones with a gun are the criminals. NRA and 2nd Amendment rights are there for Self Defense, not vigilanteism.

You people promote the opinion that the shooter was somehow listening to a higher power. Lets call a nutball a nutball. The rhetoric came from both sides particularly the far left and the far right. The rhetoric and excessive use of exclamation points I am seeing since the shooting in AZ is from the liberals. Even Spike Lee whose films have incited his race to violence against other races has weighed in to position himself as the voice of reason and temperance. Bill Mahr and Jay Leno had to claim their fame last night. Bill Mahr, whose speech and rhetoric has done as much to inflame the nutballs as anyones. Why are comedians weighing in, do they think its funny? Why is Mahr cracking jokes about it?

How many insane people would know if he was quoting a movie or not? He didn't reference the movie. How about odumbo inciting the unions to "punch back twice as hard" in reference to the tea party. And what happened? A black tea party member was beat up by union thugs! About the ratings, that just proves the majority of people think more conservative than the left. It only takes one crazy to go berserk, doesn't it and a chris matthews would attract more crazies than any Rush would.

She was a conservative democrat and he WAS INSANE!!!! You actually think he was a rational thinker? Really!

Michael Savage is correct! You guys prove it every day! Hahahaha

some of you are such hypocrital losers, i seriously mean that. lets see here...look at some facts....

every time there is an election the running candidates cut the others down, both sides of the fence. dem supporters, get over yourself, your side is just as guilty at slinging sh!t into the fan.

the guy who did the shooting, could care less what palin had said about anything, muchless, that debat was almost a year ago.... get over yourselves.

EVERYBODY i dont give 2 craps in the hand who you are had said at somepoint something to the effect wishing harm on someone. (not done in palin's case)but when it happens do you go blaming yourself if you had nothing to do with it? no, of course not. a moment of guilt if that, so please, do get over yourself.

the list goes on, but you want an appolgy? hmmm, she didnt shoot anyone, she didnt tell anyone to shoot anyone, she didnt even know the guy exsisted until today, but hey, you need something to pizz and moan about right? what if it had been a republican shot, by the same guy? would you be all up in some demcrats gazoo? nah, lol.

she is right too, it is time people are held accountable for what they say and do. how is she accountable? so far the reasons given i wouldnt say warrant an appology, but then if someone doesnt pull the other guys pants down and start sucking, it isnt enough for ya'll anyway, cause your just so libereraly stuffed full of yourselves. lol. funny thing is, most people who talk like the lot of you, i usually just laugh at in rl, or ignore, because you think your better than the next guy.

the clown in charge actually came out saying when he was going to be president, all parties would be united.... sure they will, as long as they all agree to HIS game plan... but if you dont, your a party of no, lol. personally, the HCR bill is as usual an cheap chunk of crap, with an overbearring pricetag on the people of the nation, that cant be met at this point and time. it takes tax dollars to do it, but where is that coming from? the people who havent given up and gone on welfare yet is where. right now, theres a lot more of those out there, than 2 years ago, but let the people pay, even tho we sold out most the economy, and jobs to overseas/ borders buyers.... all good in the hood right? 99% of those jobs were union, and who supports unions? i cant blame a company for selling out, they need to make $$ too and it isnt there. same thing as whats going on now with gov spending on salaries, pensions and so on, all union, with a pricetag for the public to boot to take care of, rather than being able to run a buisness like a buisness, forced to pay salaries and pensions for people who never really earned them. yup, so so much better putting blame where it doesnt belong than face reality huh?

An extremely sad commentary on msnbc subscribers that the top three thumbed up responses to this article are the most idiotic.

In other words, Palin is going to keep on inciting violence, hatred, and bigotry; and demands that her targets shut up and stop complaining about it.

Q22

No one lives in a void. We are all products of both our heritage and our environment. Some things you cannot help, predispositions and innate genetic traits. Some things you can, such as choosing to avoid smoking or making an honorable decision about something. Some things are controllable, but not by you, such as being exposed to imagery of violence and a pervasive social attitude that 'violence is ok' while growing up. All these things shape what kind of adult you will become.

When someone says that we all share a portion of responsibility for the way our mentally ill turn out, it is that latter aspect that we refer to. The mentally ill already have the first trait working against them, they're ill in a way they won't get better from. Because of that illness, their power to make good, rational decisions is unavailable. That leaves us, parents, teachers, doctors, police, and society at large, responsible for their treatment, or responsible for the consequences that we will endure because we left them untreated.

We (collectively) chose to have a system where an individual such as Loughner could not be (or was not) detained and evaluated for a mental illness even after it became apparent that he may have a problem. We chose to make the rules such that had had to be diagnosed (not suspected) of mental illness to remove his right to own a firearm. Whether the political atmosphere of gun imagery and violence had any sway is questionable, it certainly makes it seem 'acceptable' as an outlet for anger. Because of all that, we do bear responsibility for what happened. The least anyone can do is acknowledge that, and see what we might do to do things better in the future.

JD Sallinger go on national TV, and did not do rallies where he, over and over, taunted his listeners with words like Let’s take our country back!

Like it was ever stolen from anyone. Everyone in office was and is legally elected BY THE PEOPLE. Who is she taking this country back from?

Where do slogans like this one come from: The Blood of Jesus against Obama/History Made 4 Nov 2008/A Taliban Muslim Illegally Elected President USA: Hussein?

Palin has shown her true lack of class by trying to paint Obama as a Muslim. She is trying to use bias against diverse people to drive people to her Tea Party. Of course, referring to the president's full name is on its face not a slur. But when Palin uses the president's full name, it's not with respect, she is doing so to suggest the president is something other than American.

What I find most unconscionable is the refusal of the Palin tandem to publicly condemn the cries of "traitor, liar, terrorist and (worst of all) kill him! That could be heard at Palin rallies.

How obtuse of you to totally miss the point!

Salinger is no more to blame for Lennon than Palin is to Tucson. There is NO connection to anything she has said (or Angle, Bachman, limbaugh or anyone else) to the shootings. Whatever Palin or any of her supporters have ever said have no bearing on this case. They are completely immaterial and the only reason you and the left keep brining it up is to exploit this tragedy for your own political gain. It is nothing more than a platform for you to bash your political enemies. It is contemptible and you are contemptible. You are far worse than any of the people you have quoted.

Michael Savage? Don't know him. I don't listen to Rush, Beck, Palin. I just doesn't take much reading anywhere to see that the ones weighing in on the issue are the ones creating the all the spin. Who cares what they think. They are the far left and the far right.

Name one thing Sarah did that incited this man to go on a killing spree, PLEASE!!!

Oh and as far as Bill Mahr(Maher) is concerned. The only saving grace of his existence is that he has confirmed himself as a bachelor and will produce no offspring, thank god!

Palin says "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY"

An obvious insult to any liberal.

The left spews more vile than Fox, Limbaugh, Palin, and Beck put together!

and if you honestly believe this, then you're delusional.

And can you people stop posting the Obama "knife-gun fight" quote as if it offsets the right extolling their members to "enact 2nd amendment remedies," or "don't retreat, reload" bull@!$%#. They're not even in the same ballpark.

The knife-gunfight quote is a well established phrase and has existed for probably half a century. The phrase is so old, we don't even know who originally uttered it for christ sakes. You only show your ignorance by trying to pretend these quotes are on par with one another...

Name one thing Sarah did that incited this man to go on a killing spree, PLEASE!!!

to be fair, Sarah Palin never uttered one thing that made this man snap and go on a killing spree. I'm a liberal and I'll admit that, it's stupid to try and blame her more than the actual shooter (and to my knowledge, there is no one out there trying to blame her more than the shooter).

The conversation here is thus, when one sqawks repeatedly on the news that the government is "coming to take your guns/freedom/first born" over and over again, and tells you the government is forming "death panels", and tweets that Obama is a "terrorist", and furthermore doubles down by telling their listeners to use "2nd amendment remedies" , or "use bullets not ballots," or "don't retreat, reload" (all explicitly inviting the use of a gun) and then place crosshairs on your "targets" you feed into the paranoia of delusional individuals like Jared Lee Loughner.

Sure, she didn't pull the trigger, no one is suggesting she has, but to suggest that her rhetoric doesn't inflame already unstable individuals is foolish. THAT'S why people are upset with her.

And if you can't see that, you never will as your head is in the sand blind with ignorance.

My first impressions of Palin were that of embarrassment, that America had sunk to a new low. Her level of consiousness is no higher than the individuals depicted in the old movie, "Deliverance". White Trash, Redneck and Sweet Tater Pone.

I find her low class, human garbage and no more evolved than a Neanderthal, cave woman. She is highly repugnant to me. I remember a time when there was a Jackie Kennedy. How can this nation sink soooo low into the abyss of white trash and "Deliverance"?

Do we really love guns that much!

There is a huge difference between Politicians and Entertainers.

If politicians did not think that their words matter, then why the ads, speeches, rallies and meetings? They do all these things to convince people that they say and do the greatest things and so we should elect them. They connect with both the sane and insane alike.

The Jays and Bills of this world are comedians and entertainers. They make jokes about everything. Not all in good taste, but that's what they do. They are not asking anyone to vote for, believe them and support them. They ask that you laugh with them.

Sorry Sarah, but in my opinion, you and your entire family are bad influences on this country. So, it seems a calamatous shooting spree caused you to make an 8 minute video to set the record straight. Too little and far too late. You can't take back your words and behavior that have already spilled out onto the public. I can't believe you were possibly a heart beat away from the American presidency and could have potentially been the American president in what might have been your seet as Vice-President. You are sinking deeper and deeper into your own idiotic mindset and perception of things. Just go back where you came from shooting moose and keep your weird rhetoric to yourself. I hope all this information of late will keep you from considering a run for President in the next term and that some normal viable option will be on the ballot instead of you.

Embarrasment, Tater Pone, garbage Neanderthal, abyss, white trash?

Lay off the kool-aid! Your speech is just as inciteful.

Sean

It's pretty funny when conservatives want to project their values onto liberals. Hey brainiacs, liberals are, in general, the peacenicks, we're the ones at anti-war rallies that you hate. We're the ones who want some government, not take out our politicians through a basic distrust. We're the ones you despise because we're "gun grabbers

Funny Sean, if liberals are so peaceful please explain the 1968 Riots in Chicago, the Black Panther movement, all the violence involved in the so called peaceful anti war protests during the Viet Nam era? No sir I will not except you word on being peaceful. The white house stirs the racial hatred pot each chance it gets. Yet you say liberals are peaceful. Go try and sell that BS to someone who cares. It is liberals and progressives that fought against established government as being distrustful and over reaching, yet today you embrace it like Mao or Stalin, the answer to all your problems. Where did you turn from your path. Conservatives believe in self reliance and self responsibility. Palin really has no responsibility for the actions of this gun man. You want everyone to think your a rational mature adult, then accuse someone of inciting violence by comments you really don't understand.

One of the big problems is the Jays and Bills get more Air time than the politicians and therefore carry as much if not more influence than the Rushes and Becks do. None of them have any credibility as far as I am concerned yet their ratings tell the tale of who we listen to.

Ah, Sarah Palin. One wonders if she was born with that "cow at a passing train" look she possesses. One must also wonder why her (a) lack of desire to take responsibility for ANYTHING, even things, unlike this tragedy, that are directly tied to her; and (b) her uncanny desire to seize the spotlight while proclaiming such a 'noble' stance surprises anyone who passed the fifth grade.

But this is nothing new folks. I remember watching the Bush/Kerry debates and knowing for certain the exact moment Kerry lost. As a skilled debater, he crushed Bush. That's a paring similar to Floyd Mayweather fighting a school yard bully. Chimpy was never known for his smarts after all. (Understatement of the century.)

Nonetheless, the debate was history when both parties were asked what they "did wrong and what they would change." Oops.

Bush? He admitted NOTHING. Not a damn thing. That's right folks, in 2000-2004 dear Chimpy did 'nothing wrong'... or nothing he would change.

Unfortunately this was 'after' Kerry admitted that voting for the Iraq war was a mistake he regretted.

Shallow people view such a change of conscious as as sign of weakness. And goodness knows Bush's base could define "shallow" in a dictionary.

This far-right position of never admitting error remains to this very day. Palin just happens to be the most hilarious, ridiculous, and pathetic example of it. Combined with her dismal I.Q. and utter inability to grasp a large, somewhat gray picture of reality, this makes her "dangerous" indeed... not in a violent way, but rather in a subtle form that eats away at truth and progression: Passivity.

Palin is correct that political mudslinging is not to BLAME for this. But notice how she removed the brilliant nuances of, say, Keith Olbermann's viewpoint expressed last week. No one is saying SHE is to blame... or her silly target graphic... or her mentally-challenged child (not the baby, Bristol. Heh.) No one I respect is saying political exchange is "the cause" of this at all.

What it IS happens to be a contributing factor that we, as a people... or rather as people who elect our politicians, can CHANGE. It most certainly can do no harm. It may in fact do a lot of good. And it will definitely remove politics from being a source among many that might influence someone on the edge to commit violence.

That's all the rational people are saying: Stop making statements of an out-right violent nature when you have a huge mic in front of your face (a blessing and a curse when it comes to Palin.)

Does she take the high road? No. Does she even know a "high road" exists? One has to wonder.

Yet the absolute essential question to ask yourself is this:

IS SHE A 'LEADER'?

I certainly hope not. If THAT is leadership -- a refusal to admit any part in contributing not to 'this' event but to a volatile political environment -- then please: Send this woman packing from the media limelight and any HOPE of governing anything or anyone.

Leaders take the heat. Leaders created statements like, "The buck stops HERE." If Palin were to evoke the votes of the frightened, undereducated masses and actually become (gad) President, she would no-doubt reject such a hefty call to hold responsibility so dear. Or, she may assume it means money arrives at her desk daily. I would not doubt that.

Finally, and sorry for the long-winded post, but I just have to point this out:

Palin is a woman who thinks that "Jesus sleeping beside you" will drive the sexual demons away... i.e. an advocate of abstinence. Due to her religious convictions (gad again) I understand why she take this road personally and raise her family to do so. Just don't try it with the state... oh, too late. And look what happened.

Responsibility? None at all.

Yet the amazing, slap-your-head gotcha has to be the fact that she apparently cannot follow her own ideology. And, factually, neither could her daughter. Responsibility for a poor choice of birth control? No! Bristol becomes the poster child for...

abstinence.

I can see the headline now:
"I'm Bristol Palin, and abstinence works.*"

( * This time. )

Folks, have we lost our collective minds her? I posit that you reject any leader incapable of leadership; incapable of, as even NFL coaches manage to pull off, taking responsibility for issues they did not 'do' but that they might have been able to help prevent. And, of course, incapable of rational thought.

Ask yourself..

If a neighbor put a crosshair on your city and listed your name, how would you feel?

Would you feel the same way if some deranged nut broke into your home and killed a family member. Would you say there is no linkage?

There may be no demonstrable linkage to the killing with the crosshairs but id bet you would think so.....

archangle - Wow, you have to go back over 40 years to make your point? How about the Tea Party guy who crashed his plane into the IRS building in Austin last year. Let's stick with the present rather than dredging up ancient examples to clarify a point, mmmmkay?

"Excellent!!!!!! Very well said and you hit it right on the nose. She needs to go away, back to wherever she came from. I hate to say Alaska because it's such a beautiful state."

Alaskans don't want her there. She is an embarrassment to them. They wish she would leave or, at least, STFU.

Posts 2, 2.1, 2.2 (I didn't read further because, frankly, it is not worth my time to read posts by morons) are more examples of PURE STUPIDITY OF PEOPLE WITH THEIR IDIOTIC COMMENTS! Sad.

Alan - Don't bother with proof or a point, just resort to namecalling. Do you think that makes you appear to be intelligent? Sad indeed.

archangel,

1968 Riots in Chicago, the Black Panther movement

you are going to bring up what happened in 1968? And a Black Panther Movement? This was an organization that was created initially to set forth a doctrine that was calling primarily for the protection of African American neighborhoods from police brutality among other brutalities. There is no questions what is was like for the Africans Americans during those times.

But the Black Panther Party's objectives and philosophy expanded and evolved rapidly during the party's existence. There was violence. Started for the right reasons but developed violence.

You can kind of say the same thing about the Tea Party movement.

Bayllie,

That's bologna - the Tea Party movement is non-violent. People choose to portray them that way to minimize them, but there is no truth to it.

JC,

I am not saying that the Tea Party movement is violent in it's entirety but there are violent examples. Yes, there are just examples but what I have a problem with is that when inappropriate things happen at these rallies, everyone AROUND just ignores it. Is it ok?

Why do people want to be associated with racism and bigotry?

Would you invite these people for dinner? If you answer "no", why do you accept them in your crowd?

First I will start you up with a multiple pictures of disgusting posters you "friendly" Tea Party members have created. The ones who created these are disgusting and the people who did not kick them out are disgusting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI&feature=related

Tell me, what are these posters supposed to prove? How racist and hateful these rallies are?

Here is one video for you that proves once again that no one came to the cameraman’s rescue (some even clapped), and one guy tried to separate himself from what had happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgec9WX21ik&feature=related

Every time I see an image of an adult holding a despicable sign like that, I lose any shred of respect I might have left for your movement.

I wish, for once, Sarah Palin or Beck or whoever else organizes these rallies would kick these people out and say, the like of you are not welcomed! But I will not hold my breath!

Bayllie,

I don't dispute that there could be people that attend a Tea Party rally with a sign that is bad, or that someone could do something wrong. But, that isn't really the point - is it? To try to minimize an entire group of people for the actions of a few is wrong.

During the Bush years, protesters carried signs with his head chopped off and blood spurting out, pictures of him as Hitler, etc., but that doesn't mean that the entire Democratic party felt that was appropriate. And, no - to the best of my knowledge nobody asked them to take their signs and go home.

I'm not really interested in doing a tit-for-tat session of which group did the most vile things; because it really isn't about that. The real question is, do the majority of the people in a group feel that way.

Personally, I have never attended a Tea Party function, although I wouldn't mind seeing what one was like (but I have to work). However, from what I have heard, it seems that their stated goals make sense - smaller government and fiscal responsibility.

As for Palin or Beck, they aren't "in charge" of the Tea Parties, they are just associated - so they can't really throw anyone out. However, I do know for a fact that Beck regularly calls for peaceful dissent and non-violence.

@Beth,

Perhaps you've noticed that the two most vehemently discussed topics on these vines are politics and religion. Both of these topics infamously defy any reason and logic, and it is nearly impossible to change peoples opinions and beliefs regardless of the facts.

sorry, but paul krugman as well as a democrat senator have come forward and said "death panels" WILL be necessary for obamacare to work.

yeah i can say HYPOCRITE, it's gadzooks!

So much from the leader of the "Personal Responsiblity"! Both sides have responsiblity for setting a tone of hatered. Sara is responsible for her words!!!

It was a Congressman in my state that wanted to have appointments for end of life discussions (which we all should have) with our doctors. Medicare did NOT pay for that and he thought it was something that should be covered under a health care plan. Sarah Palin turned that in to "Death Panels". She said that her mentality challenge child would have to appear before a death panel to see if he was worthy of living. The ironic thing is really what does she think private insurance companies do everyday. They have adjusters who way the cost of medical care verses their company profits. If they deem you are a drain on profits, they find loopholes in coverage to kick you off. If youd don't have medical coverage and cant find money to pay for your continued care then YOU die. Sarah turned something that every America should do and something your health care insurance should do, into something evil and preverted!! Her has are deep in that little girls blood!!

Sarah, Sharon, Rush, Beck all think they can say anything they want, any lie or outrageous inflamitory remark and they have NO responsiblity!! Even if this guy was extremely left, how can he hear someone from the right say to solve problems using "2nd Amendment remedies, and not be incited.

Here is another thought, what would the right be doing this very minute, if the gunman was a Muslim or if the Congresswoman had been a republican?? Do honestly think that the right talkers would be saying this was an "isolated" incident or that he WASN'T affected by the illimination speak going on??? I listen to both sides a lot, I am a talk radio junkie, and I have never heard anyone on the left use words like, "Don't retreat, reload!"

Sarah, nobody "creatively"editing your words!!! You said them!! Now it is time you take responsiblity for saying them!!! Be a leader and admit you were wrong!!!

Dave grow up! There is no such thing as a death panels, however the term was coined on the right to scare the hell out of old people and they took credit for it. After going through an end of life situation with my mother last Sept. Discussion with medical staff as well as legal staff is needed for end of life planning. As far as Palin is concerned, the TPers did have all kind of fringe elements at their rallies and their rhetoric is and was pretty incendiary. (Please don't post here that the left did it with Bush. It was wrong then and it's wrong now, so that pat on your back for being just as horrible as the fringe left in the Bush years, is pretty sick). If you deny that then you are just plain lost. Is the AZ incident an off shoot of those rhetoric, I do not think so. Was it un-fair to connect Palin and other to it...right now I would say yes unless something else comes up to prove otherwise (I don't think that will be the case, I hope not anyway). The problem with people in general is that everyone has to be right. Life does not work that way. Sometimes we are a little right sometimes we are little wrong...sometimes we just miss the boat on either side of right and wrong. The is now a time to pull together and make sure this stays and isolated incident. I don't want any crazies on the left or right offing anyone. So, I will end again with grow up and that goes to everyone that is missing the point of what transpired in AZ and yes, that include Palin. It's nice to defend yourself, but a bigger person would let the little guys defend you while you take the high road and strike a somber tone as this moment requires it.

David if you were any dumber and more of a liar, you would have to change your name to Sarah Palin. She popularized the term, and used it at frequent speaking engagements. The phrase itself is a lie about Health Care reform. If you had any integrity you would admit that. You don't. Crawl back into your hate infested hole and leave the human beings alone.

She created the "Death Map" didn't she?

Well gadzooks are you prepared to admit that the birther movement was started by Democrats who supported Hillary for president?

Sorry but it's true. The libs INVENTED the smear concept.

Truth hurt much?

You betcha!

David- get a clue.

Palin and the 24-hour right-wing echo chamber have done a great disservice to average Americans with the bashing of national health care. If health care reform is repealed- WAY MORE than 6 people will die every year, many of them 9-year-olds or younger!

Once again you have been led by the nose by an ignorant, attention-seeking narcissist (SP).

The elderly will be offered counseling about care options, hospice, EOL preparedness etc. Only the very ignorant or the very hide-bound would call this 'death panels'.

Do you have your EOL wishes in writing? Do know your options? Do you even know what hospice is?

And know for the Big Question: do you know what will happen to you if the mail carrier can see through the window that you are laying on the floor and not moving? Pay attention now.

EMS will be dispatched along with law enforcement (and, in some cities, fire). If the door is locked it will be forced open. You will be assessed. If there are presumptive sings of death, e.g. you've already started seeping into the carpet, the coroner will be called and you will be left to your death in peace.

Otherwise, you will be given CPR and IED. Your clothes will be cut off so your body can be worked on. Depending on where you live, you will have an airway inserted into your trachea and possibly an IV line. CPR will continue through everything. When you have had a rapid assessment and packaged, you will be put on a cot, slid into an ambulance and whisked off to the hospital.

There, what ever clothing remains will be cut off. You will lay on an ER bed, mostly naked, mind, while a team of strangers continue CPR and hook you up all the hospital technology has to offer.

If you heart begins to beat or you begin to breathe on your own you will be hooked up to all manner of 'life' support. Possibly for years. This will put your family through the ringer and may even drive them into debt. Except it's not really life, is it?

All this futile denial of death is driving up the cost of medical care. It is creating emotional havoc.

We cannot continue to burn resources because people refuse to accept that one day they will die. Because families will not accept that the body on the bed is just that, a body; any authentic living is over. It is needless, it is foolish.

You're going to die. Deal with it.

Obviously, one cannot connect specific rhetoric with the shooting. However, it has certainly brought to the forefront of debate the way inwhich does and should occur. Heated debate is fine, but there should always be the opportunity to compromise. Also worth mentioning is the way the opposing points of view are mischaracterized. Citizens need to be informed not steered by false statements. "Death Panels" come to mind.

hypocrite is the left beating up on Sarah for calling out the left for putting death panels in odumbocare. What is worse, calling it death panels or actually doing a death panel. Another example of insane irrational thinking from the left! Remember the prez's blue pill red pill example!

NBC and their bias REPORTING seems to want to ignore: (from Vegas Yank)

* Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

* Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”

* Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your? enemies.”

* Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

* Obama: "They Bring a Knife...We Bring a Gun"

* Obama to His Followers: "Get? in Their Faces!"

* Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!"

* Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard"

* Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks... so I know whose ass to kick."

* Obama referring to Republicans as"the enemy"

Democrat map also featured crosshairs which is provided in screenshot
democratunderground.com put crosshairs on Sarah Palin, provided in screenshot

ISN'T IT TIME AMERICANS STOPPED BLAMING EACH OTHER AND OFFERED/TRIED SOLUTIONS for OUR COUNTRIES PROBLEMS!

Speaking of hypocrit in reference to the death panels, those so called death panels were introduced into the bill by republicans. In an effort to reach out for bipartisanship, democrats accepted it. What a TROJAN HORSE! It was a good idea until they decided to use it against the democrats. But that's happened so much over the past 2 years it's sickening.

Can you really not tell the difference between metaphors such as "fighting for what's right" and thinly-veiled calls for violence, or do you just think that everyone else is too stupid to grasp the distinction?

So chris, is this why the republicans fully supported the healthcare bill? Hahahaha! As I remember, they weren't asked a damned thing and weren't even allowed the time to read the bill before voting on it!

You said it, the key word is metaphor. I doesn't matter whether if came from a conservative, or liberal. We are taught that since school, the school fight song, no one expects our kids to literally fight. Our school policies have rules against that. There are also laws against murder and robbery. Lets start a new movement, we will call it the George Carlin movement. We can replace the word kill with the f word. We will replace the metaphor of death with a metaphor of love.

sorry, but paul krugman as well as a democrat senator have come forward and said "death panels" WILL be necessary for obamacare to work.

total bull@!$%#. David, stop with your inane posts, you're embarrassing yourself...

As I remember, they weren't asked a damned thing and weren't even allowed the time to read the bill before voting on it!

also total bull@!$%#. The Republicans added tons of amendments to the healthcare law, they were very much involved with it's crafting. In addition, the healthcare debate took place over 15 months, plenty of time for the Repubilcans and their staffers to read the actual bill.

The "we don't have time to read the bill" nonsense makes for a nice talking point, but doesn't hold water in this place we like to call reality.

Don't blame the D's because your Republican representative was too lazy to do his/her job properly...

@Act2 - You were brainwashed by fox news because thats not factual at all. The only reason it tooks so long to do the bill was because they were trying to reach out. They had the numbers. They could've rammed it through both houses in early fall 09. But republican made it clear before even a single bill was introduced that they wanted to stop Obamacare. They were not interested before even people were even sure which of the many bills floating around were the healthcare bill. They just went on trying to slander them all. So, eventaully once democrats found out that republicans were only trying to introduce "poison pill" amendments and not really trying to contribute, they went into their own back rooms to get it done. It takes 2 to tango.

@commonsense - You're right there is a difference between calls for violences and using violent language to describe a different idea as an analogy. While Palin fits into the latter, there are people like Joyce Kaufman and Sharon Angle who fit into the first category. They meant exactly the violence they said. "If ballots don't work, bullets will." Why does the right ignore even the EXPLICIT enciting of violence as if those cases don't exist too? You guys almost let Sharon Angle's 2nd amendment remedies comment propel her into the US Senate defending it. How shameful is that?

NBC and their bias REPORTING seems to want to ignore: (from Vegas Yank)???????? Please stop twisting and lying....Here is the truth.....

* Obama: "They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun""If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun," Obama told the audience. "Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. I've seen Eagles fans.

** Obama to His Followers: "Get in Their Faces!""I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face.

** Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!".......I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I'm angry," Mr. Obama said, his voice reaching a peak seven days after learning of the bonuses given to employees of the American International Group. "What I want to do, though, is channel our anger in a constructive way."

** Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard".....And they screened TV ads and reviewed the various campaigns by critics of the Democratic plan. If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard, Messina(not Obama) said, according to an official who attended the meeting.

** Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick."....NBC's Matt Lauer asked Obama about the criticism that he should spend more time in the Gulf instead of with experts and "kick some butt."...Obama told NBC his deliberations have been more than academic......."I don't sit around talking to experts because this is a college seminar," Obama continued. "We talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose ass to kick."

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean "hand to hand combat"...........A Republican majority in Congress would mean "hand-to-hand combat" on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy, President Obama warned Wednesday…"They are fired up. They are mobilized. They see an opportunity to take back the House, maybe take back the Senate," he said. "If they're successful in doing that, they've already said they're going to go back to the same policies that were in place during the Bush administration. That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here on Capitol Hill."

Obama to lib supporters: "It's time to Fight for it." ...."When it comes to taking a punch, I don't know whether you're Muhammad Ali or Floyd Patterson," Axelrod wrote to Obama in a November 2006 memo reported in a new book that reprises the campaign by Washington Post political reporter Dan Balz and former Post writer Haynes Johnson. Now Obama supporters are wondering about their man. If they're to see what he's made of, Obama has to first get in the ring. Forget the niceties, it's time to fight.

Obama to Latino supporters: "Punish your enemies.".."If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,' if they don't see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it's gonna be harder and that's why I think it's so important that people focus on voting on November 2."

** Obama to democrats: "I'm itching for a fight."As fellow Democrats accuse him of caving in to Republicans on the tax cut deal, President Obama is repeatedly promising them that he will fight the GOP aggressively when it takes over the U.S. House and adds senators next month. "I will be happy to see the Republicans test whether or not I'm itching for a fight on a whole range of issues," Obama said last week. "I suspect they will find I am. And I think the American people will be on my side on a whole bunch of these fights."

Speaking of death panels, Palin's advisors thought people whould be too stupid to understand that requiring insurance companies to pay for consultation with doctors about end of life issues (if you've ever loved someone that was days or weeks from certain death, you know what these are), does not mean deciding whether or not to kill someone before they are unavoidably dead due to their medical condition.

On the other hand, some insurance companies, including one well known company that offered "privatized" Medicare, do send their employees to hsopitals trying to get people discharged. My mother died after Humana Health Care (sue me!) bought her privatized Medicare agreement from another provider. Mom had a stroke, was hospitalized, and we were told she needed extensive hospital recovery and therapy. Within days, a Humana representative started showing up on a daily or more frequent basis, even interrupting physical therapy sessions, demanding that my mother be released from the hospital because she hadn't fully recovered yet (duh). At first the doctors refused, but they relented halfway through the program they had initially prescribed, and we were forced to find a nursing home for her. Her first full day there, she had a heart attack and another stroke, and died a few days later in another (closer to the nursing home) hospital. Personally, I believe that Humana caused my mother's death. (Let 'em sue me for my opinion if they want; I'd have sued them if it could have gotten Mom back.)

Death panels are real, but they were never part of ObamaCare.

NBC and their bias REPORTING seems to want to ignore: (from Vegas Yank)???????? Please stop twisting and lying....Here is the truth.....

please stop posting that nonsense. All the quotes you mention aren't even in the same ballpark as "2nd amendment remedies" and "don't retreat, reload," "bullets not ballots," etc., etc.

The worst of the quotes, the "knife-gunfight" one is a well-established phrase that is so old we don't know who originally uttered it. It's like quoting shakespeare for christ sakes, get a grip.

If you can't see this, then you're either being purposefully obtuse or you're too stupid to know the difference...

If a Muslim kills, the right's looking to blame Islamic ideology for it. If an non- Muslim American kills, the right's looking to not blame any ideology but call him mentally ill. There are cases where both Americans an Muslim terrorists were sick in the head. But the fact that we jump to conclusions early on based on who does the who did the killing. Do we pretend that the anti-govt terrorists weren't anti-government and chose government or political targets as a coincidence? Sure there's no cause and effect link. But you also can't say that an ideology is not what breeded the hate and anger. You also can't say that firey rhetoric is incapable of inciting a wacky person to go over the edge and do something crazy. We have a history of many lynchings and assassinations that suddenly decreased as the leaders spewing the hateful rhetoric decreased. It's not a coincidence. Plus, not all shooters in history can be thrown into the mentally wacky category. Ideology matters.

It's all about ACCOUNTABILITY. The common thread and theme of the posts from the left is a traditional and recurring one that the individual is not completely personally responsible for their own actions. The left has, does, and ALWAYS will offer excuses, alibis, or mitigating influences or circumstances as abdication, diminution, or absolution of personal responsibility.

Drowning Grover

I think the point is that this is the tone set by Obama and Washington so there is plenty of blame to go around!

On Death Panels....

consultations between a doctor and Patient can happen during any regular appointment, they do not need to be singled out for a specific meeting. Having lost both my parents to cancer and both of my in-laws to cancer have given me incite into this issue. What the term Death Panels referred to was the opportunity for government oversight to terminate or mandate a particular treatment for the terminally ill. It is the family, patient and doctor that should be responsible not a government agency. You may argue that it won't happen that way but in response I say as I did when the debate raged that government is notorious for being run by bean counters with as much compassion and soul as a block of ice. We all know this to be true especially those that have dealt with government agencies before.

I think the point is that this is the tone set by Obama and Washington so there is plenty of blame to go around!

Okay, so Obama hasn't been 100% cordial at all times. So what. His "rhetoric" has been nowhere even close to that coming from the right, that's nearly inarguable.

When the right says "Obama's a muslim terrorist sympathizer" and Obama says "we're going to fight back against those charges," things cannot be called equal!

On Death Panels....

consultations between a doctor and Patient can happen during any regular appointment, they do not need to be singled out for a specific meeting.

What the term Death Panels referred to was the opportunity for government oversight to terminate or mandate a particular treatment for the terminally ill.

I see you fundamentally misunderstand what the whole debate about "end-of-life care" was about. This wasn't about the government making ANY decisions about your end-of-life care, it was about the government mandating that insurance providers PAY for YOU and YOUR DOCTOR to have that consultation, if YOU chose to do so.

It is the family, patient and doctor that should be responsible not a government agency.

the only way the government agency was involved is because they wanted to step in and PAY for your consultation as part of your normal health insurance. But oh well, people got scared by the "death panel" lie in the media, and so now if you're stuck with an insurance provider who doesn't pay for those services, have fun paying out of pocket. You can send the bill to the RNC...

You may argue that it won't happen that way but in response I say as I did when the debate raged that government is notorious for being run by bean counters with as much compassion and soul as a block of ice.

ah yes, and private insurance providers who make profit by denying you care aren't bean counters. They're full of compassion too!

Act2

"So chris, is this why the republicans fully supported the healthcare bill? Hahahaha! As I remember, they weren't asked a damned thing and weren't even allowed the time to read the bill before voting on it!"

Huh? The version that was passed is the same version that was passed in the senate.

It was done thru reconciliation, the same way that the Republicans got the Bush tax cuts passed that just expired and were renewed.

DrowningGrover,

You are the one who is mistaken. Archangel is right. "Death Panels" is not a reference to end-of-life counciling, it refers to the group of government beauraucrats that will decide what treatments will be approved for people, and at what age it becomes disadvantageous to continue treatment, and whether the cost of a treatment is too expensive.

And, while I do agree that it is likely that this will occur with HCR, I also recognize that it already happens with medicare/medicaid and insurance companies. When other people (government/insurance companies) are paying the bill, they have no choice but to make these types of decisions.

The reality of it all is that private insurers are not the ones that pay for the end of life services of our elderly. It is Medicare and Medicaid. They are the one that take up when the private insurers bow out. The ultimate decision tend to be left to the family when advance directives are not made. Don't think for a minute that insurers including Medicare and Medicaid do not make decisions about the care provided when they fail to precert a treatment or procedure. What do you think happens when some one is at a end of life decision and there are no directives or family to make the decision. Let hope we don't have to find out.

You are the one who is mistaken. Archangel is right. "Death Panels" is not a reference to end-of-life counciling, it refers to the group of government beauraucrats that will decide what treatments will be approved for people and at what age it becomes disadvantageous to continue treatment, and whether the cost of a treatment is too expensive.

/palmface

no... it... is... not!

Well, sure "Death panels" is the made-up fairytale land term Palin concocted to describe government bureaucrats telling granny she must die now, but that's not what was actually being debated in the bill.

What was being debated in reality is whether or not insurance providers should be required to pay for it if the patient (i.e. YOU) and your doctor opted to go forward with said counseling. It said nothing of what types of treatment options should/would be available, only that insurance would have to pay for such preliminary consultation. That part was stripped out of the bill, and now if you go through this counseling insurance doesn't have to cover it if they don't wish to. Congratulations!

Apparently you fell for the lie, and worse, didn't even know you were being lied to!

@Act - your memory isn't correct. The republicans run the news cycle so they made people think that democrats weren't reaching out. Just because a person yells and screams help doesn't mean they're in distress. Just like this past december when republicans complained about rushing bills through when the trained observer would know these bills have been around and debated for MONTHS but the republicans have just been blocking them for no reason. When the opportunity to add amends on are opened up, they try to throw unrelated stuff that are crazy onto it to kill the bill like viagra for sexual predators. They only wanted to stall the clock and block stuff so they made up excuse are excuse about the process so they didn't have to publicly say that they were against the content of the bill. The truth is they agreed with the bill but would just rather have it passed under a republican administration because Obama can't get the blame for something good. Do your research, watch a little more Rachel Maddow and you'll learn the truth about what happpens in Washington. Don't believe all the hype you hear out there.

For all of those hate speech and calls of violence only come from the right.

But lets point out some true hate and violence inducing speech from the left:

"I believe in ecoterrorism..."-James Cameron

F*** G*d d**ned Joe the G*d d**ned mother f**king Plumber! I want mother f**king Joe the Plumber dead!"-Liberal Charles Karel Bouley on air

"And then there's Rumsfeld who said of Iraq 'We have our good days and our bad days.' We should put this S.O.B. up against the wall and say 'This is one of our bad days' and pull the trigger.-St. Petersburg Democratic Club

"I want to go up to the closest white person and say: 'You can't undestand this, it's a black thing' and then slap him, just for my mental health."- Charles Barron

These are just some of the shorter ones I found and that took just a couple minutes. The left like to pretend to be peace-niks but the truth is they are just as brutal as they paint the right to be.

@Act - Also, if your memory is serving you right before any bill passed any house, there were about 4 different bills in the house of representatives. So, when people said the healthcare bill, nobody would know which one they were specifically referring too. Republicans were just saying that healthcare was funding abortions which wasn't true but wouldn't even attribute their lies to any specific bill so it would be refuted.

:laughs: @ bobthebuilder.

Other than James Cameron (who's a film director), I don't even know who any of those people are. They aren't national cable news anchors of major-party Vice Presidential/Senatorial/Congressional candidates! I particularly liked your Rumsfeld quote attributed to no one in particular.

Is that the best you can do? Seriously?

Downing,

The exact quote from Palin regarding death panels is:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

When she was accused of misleading the public, she chose not to back down and further stated:

"If the health care bill goes the way Obama wants it, we're gonna have something very much like foreign countries' systems of health care like the British, and it's the American people -- if we have our health care paid for by the bureaucracy, by government -- depending on our health condition, depending on our age -- we're gonna be subject to bureaucrats deciding, panels and commissions deciding -- just like they do overseas -- who will be worthy of receiving the health care that government is going to provide."

If you think this is somehow referring to end-of-life counseling, I certainly don't see how. And, since we are in a Palin related thread, talking about what a Palin concocted term means, I would have to say that it must be what the term is referring to. And, if you go back to 3.21, where this started, you can see that commonsense equated the end-of-life counseling to the Palin Death Panels.

So, I certainly fell for no lie. And, no, there is not a line item in the bill that sets up "Death Panels" - you can't go to Section 17 Paragraph 4 and find it. As I stated previously, it is the obvious conclusion when any entity has control over the money used to provide services. Do you disagree with that? Do you understand that insurance rates are already driven primarily by the rates charged by the government for Medicare? Doctors, et al, do not work for free and the government does not have an unlimited supply of money (unless of course you count them printing it). If demand exceeds supply, decisions will have to be made......

If you think this is somehow referring to end-of-life counseling, I certainly don't see how.

sure, Sarah wasn't talking about end of life counseling, but it was the provision in the bill that set up funding for end-of-life counseling that Sarah misconstrued and called "death panels." The dems even took out the provision that would fund said counseling just because of the media firestorm Sarah's misinterpretation of it created. The whole "death panel" dustup was ENTIRELY about making insurance providers pay for end of life counseling should a patient and their doctor decide to go forth with it!

All the quotes you provided from Sarah herself sound perfectly reasonable, I don't want panels deciding who is worthy of care anymore than the next guy, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT WAS IN THE BILL when she coined it a "death panel."

As I stated previously, it is the obvious conclusion when any entity has control over the money used to provide services.

okay, so if you think because the government is going to make people die an early death against their wishes simply because they're paying for it, what do you think of our CURRENT insurance system where private entities already make these very decisions, with the added factor in that the company has to skim a profit off their premiums first before they pay for any care?!?

This is ridiculous, "death panels" as Sarah Palin defined them (i.e. a company or private panel deciding who lives and who dies, and at what cost) already exist and a provision in the new bill that might have improved this situation by allowing patients to at least have SOME say in this process was struck down because Palin idiotically defined this process as a "death panel."

Up is down, black is white, war is peace, etc This woman is a 1st degree moron and has not a @!$%#ing clue about anything that flys out of her piehole! Her "death panel" and now the "blood libel" idiocy prove it!

Act2

So chris, is this why the republicans fully supported the healthcare bill? Hahahaha! As I remember, they weren't asked a damned thing and weren't even allowed the time to read the bill before voting on it!

Are you serious? The Republicans were not allowed to read the bill?

Don't you remember the whole controversy that the Republicans were that concerned sex-offenders might get viagra? Where did they read that - their toilet paper roll?

How about the fact that John Boehner was adamant that some of the more popular parts of health care reform that the Democrats have been touting were actually Republican ideas, despite repeatedly saying in the past that no Republican ideas had been incorporated into the plan?

Which one is it Act? You have a funny way of manipulating the facts.

Grover-It doesn't matter what level they are, it goes to show the so-called peace loving liberals are far from it. Of course if you don't know who any of these people are maybe you are just somebody who has to agree with the majority wherever you are.

Downing,

I don't like the idea that anyone is going to make those kinds of decisions. Personally, I loathe the very concept of insurance and certainly have no belief that they will have my best interests at heart. On the other hand, I also know that if I look up "incompetent" in the dictionary it will say "see Beauracracy".

Unlike most conservatives, I am somewhat torn on the Healthcare issue. I am inclined to think that some type of government solution may be appropriate. I am not even entirely certain what that might mean or look like.

What I really don't understand is how it is that the left, who are so opposed to the greed and avarice of huge corporations, are just happy as punch to have the government mandate that we purchase insurance from these folks so that they can make even more obscene profits.

In general, I am a die hard capitalist, except when it comes to insurance - which I consider one of the great scams ever perpetrated on mankind. So, now I have no choice - I have to either have insurance or pay a fine. Great!

And worst of all, they are going to kick me when I'm down. I have insurance through my company, so the only way I won't have insurance is if I lose my job - then since I lost my job and don't have insurance, I now have to pay for it.... with what? yep... you guessed it..... my Unemployment Insurance! Tell me how this possibly makes sense.......

Drowning,

Thanks for pointing out the facts. While there are very reasonable arguments for and against government sponsored health insurance, the rhetoric spewed forth such as "Death Panels" is certainly not a valid concern. In fact, many private health care facilities alraedy provide end of life counseling and insurers pay for it. My biggest concern was how it was to be paid for. The numbers really did not make sense. If you look back at when the government implemented the Social Security (Medicare) act in 1965, cost analyses seemed to have nothing to do with reality.

All of the complaining about someone else deciding your care, let me tell you, unless you are wealthy enough to not need health insurance and can afford to dish out a couple million for care of a serious ongoing condition, there will be someone deciding if you live or die based on your ability to pay.

How very .................German ......Words like "choice" and "end of life" , coming from "Happy face nazi's"

I've already heard Der Field Marshall Hillary ,pointing out

:There are too many specialists , we need more general practitioners"

Straight from the wonderfully successful USSR !

PROGRESSIVE ....The party of liver spots

Take responsibility for what this nut? How does anybody even know he like Palin and have ever been on her site. What if he is liberal and watch keith Olbermann every night. And his HATE speech.

She probably can't define "responsibility" or use it in a sentence. She needs time to understand the concept first.

shes just a face. any real input given to her just thins out in the helium like atmosphere of her psyche.

you took the words right out of my mouth

There are times when Palin would be well served to just SHUT UP.

Her latest EIGHT MINUTE tirade has successfully painted her true character: egotistical, arrogant, self-serving, whining, hypocritical, with a narcissistic personality disorder .

If she wasn't to blame on Saturday, then she sure is today.

A decent person would have sent condolences.

I watched a report on how the parents of the 9 year old murdered victim have reacted.

They are giving comfort to others! THAT IS TRUE CLASS, heroism, compassion and Americans I can be proud of.

Palin assumes that SHE is the Victim.

How, exactly, is she to blame for some crazy person committing a crime in a state she's not even in? And, since she's not to blame, why should she take responsibility for his actions? What complete, utter nonsense and irresponsible, so-called news reporting and the Pima County sheriff is just as bad spewing his garbage all over the airwaves. But you people don't seem to comment on that.

She did take responsibility when she covered for her daughter to hide her 1st pregnency and claim her grandson as her own son. Way to go Sarah!!!

She is not to blame. Which is why she didn't need to make some self serving explanation.

I do not like Sarah Palin.

I agree with her that she was not a root cause of this tragedy.

It doesn't absolve her from her rhetoric.

People who never take responsability for their actions are labeled sociopaths. They have a blatant disregard for others......

I have to agree whole heartedly with Mark. I don't like Sarah Palin, I think she is a friggin idiot, but at the same time she has no connection to this incident and did not set off this wacko in any way. If you look at the evidence you will see that this guy had his own motivations and his own reasoning. He didn't even spew any of her rhetoric.

However, that is exactly why she shouldn't have recorded this eight minute video of her whining once again about how she's the victim. Nor does it mean that her rhetoric is excusable, even though it has nothing to do with this incident. She should have just kept her mouth shut and stayed out of the spotlight.

Palin is right. People on the left are too quick to try to shut off political debate and political speech that differs from theirs, by using tragic events.

I don't hear anyone decrying all of the vitriol against President Bush and Vice President Cheney, which continues to this day, including signs, videos, books, etc. advocating killing them, imprisoning them, etc. How about the accusations that Bush and Cheney actually caused 9/11?

How about all of the accusations of stupidity against Bush, Palin, et. al?

The left is mighty selective about what they want to call "hate speech," aren't they?

WTF? What should she be taking responsibility for? You people need to think before you write. If Sarah Palin is responsible for the deaths of the people in Tucson because of rhetoric, then every writer, performer or entertainer who depicts violence is equally culpable. If those crosshairs on her website are indicative of the impending death of public figures, then let's string Sarah up and torture her until she divulges the next shooter of the other 19 targets. And how is she NOT a victim, she has been blamed directly and indirectly for this tragedy, which is utterly ludicrous. Please, all the idiots whose words made no sense, feel free to apologize to the public education system in which your idiocy is no doubt derivitive, for you have distinguished all hope that intellect is a possible product.

This woman has never taken responsibility for anything.

iokiyar

I don't hear anyone decrying all of the vitriol against President Bush and Vice President Cheney, which continues to this day, including signs, videos, books, etc. advocating killing them, imprisoning them, etc. How about the accusations that Bush and Cheney actually caused 9/11?

yeah, cause we all know that things uttered by anonymous bloggers and private obscure citizens attending an anti-war rally are on par with words and phrases uttered by high-profile Fox News anchors and Republican Vice Presidential, Senatorial, and Congressional candidates.

If you want to compare the vitriol directed at Bush/Cheney by anonymous bloggers, I have some tea party signs from various rallies I can direct you towards.

These things are not even in the same ballpark.

It's all about ACCOUNTABILITY. The common thread and theme of the posts from the left is a traditional and recurring one that the individual is not completely personally responsible for their own actions. The left has, does, and ALWAYS will offer excuses, alibis, or mitigating influences or circumstances as abdication, diminution, or absolution of personal responsibility.

Much like our current President and the rest of his administration. Two years into his first term and still not taking responsibility for anything that he has done.

Why would she be any more responsible for this tragedy than you or me? This freak is just that, a freak. No one else is to blame for his behavior, and I hope that the death sentence is still in place in Arizona.

Powerfully ignorant comment by NC BOZO... This is not the time for Political finger-pointing. To suggest that Palinis responsible for this tragedy is as irresponsible as your parents procreating in the first place. While it's adorable that you feel your position makes sense, maybe you should climb down from the computer and go back to blocks or finger-painting and leave the discourse to the adults.

How can we make the assumption let alone empower Sarah Palin with such awesome power when for the past months since McCain announce her as his runningmate, we have had to listen to tirades on how stupid she is. Any progressive thinking American should know by now how dumb the liberal majority thinks she is.

The way some of you spew your hate speach here, well I'm surprised you crazy nuts haven't attacked her! Its appearant your all filled with hate and lunacy. Whatever you do don't go out and buy a gun, you are all obviously so filled with hate you would probably use it.

About the comment of signs at tea party rallies, what are you doing looking over your shoulder. Are you a liberal at a Tea Party Rally? I supposed you had no need to look over your shoulderat a Democratic rally. If you had you would have seen signs with the same spew. That stuff is at all the campaigns these days.

Sarah "Frankenstein" Palin herself is what is "reprehensible". She is a reprehensible reprobate!

Regardless of political ideologies and/or party affiliation, anyone with half a lick of sense would have to admit that the level of vitriol coming from cable tv & radio news sources, their pundits and commentators sure doesn't help in ANY way, shape or form.

This goes out to ALL of the self-proclaimed tv & radio "patriots", STOP IT! And with all due respect, Mrs. Palin, for you to call ANYONE else irresponsible when YOUR fundraising org. and YOU yourself have taken irresponsibility to a WHOLE NOTHA LEVEL, is the very definition of hypocritical. Mrs. Palin is not the only one who needs to face this most unfortunate fact, but her comments, rhetoric and crosshairs map of "targets" is about as vitriolic as it gets.

A person obsessed with his rights under the constitution just killed 6 people and wounded a dozen or more in a cold, calculated surprise attack, thereby ENDING THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! One of those injured seriously and who was, indeed, the intended target, is lying in a hospital bed recovering from a bullet shot at point blank range to her head!

What is it going to take for people to realize THEY have US so rabidly angry and divided that we're turning on one another? You can stick your head in the sand, decide you know everything and tune into your preferred televised oracle for your nightly original thoughts, OR you can accept the fact that these oracles on both sides of the debate are NOTHING more than highly paid talking heads put there for THEIR ENTERTAINMENT!

WAKE UP, AMERICA!

Seriously? Are you advocating for the repeal of the First Ammendment? Hey, here's an idea, let's ban all books and music. No more "Of Mice and Men" because Steinbeck is clearly responsible for all animal mutilatins and also, let's not allow our teenagers to listen to Jimi Hendrix because "Hey Joe" is directly to blame for all retaliation killings in America. You people are crazy because Sarah Palin isn't to blame, it is Martin Scorcese. That lunatic has people shooting people right and left. String him up! And also, ALL CAPS ARE AWESOME! IT ALLOWS ME TO SCREAM IN MY POST!

Mitchell, in short the answer is "No." As to your other comments, you're entitled to your opinions and to write them here on Newsvine. Have a very nice day!

Anyone in America who can pay for the Air time can get their opinion heard. How else could Okra Winfrey get her OWN channel? I guess from lotion and weight loss company advertising.

. . . OR have a magazine published whereon she places her OWN photo every single issue! It takes a whole LOT of money to garner that level of loyalty from ones subjects. . .simply AMAZING what money can buy . .it can even buy adoration! AMAZING! ;-)

Harpy. Brilliant. That's exactly what she is.

Palin tells people to use 2nd amendment remedies, don't retreat and reload, and then gives them a list of targets.

Giffords said this was concerning last year in an interview and noted her offices had been attacked.

2011 - Giffords gets shot (big surprise!)

Palin calls connecting the obvious dots disgusting.

Fox News and GOP claim shooter is crazy liberal.

He liked Hitler...apparently GOP is saying Hitler was a liberal? (didn't he kill Jews and gays?)

Constantly ranted about a currency not backed by gold or silver (Man, I know I've heard that somewhere else before but just can't remember, darn)

Oh yeah, latest update is that he listened to heavy metal...which according to some sources is considered to make you crazy or unstable.

SanBruno, you speak for 99.99% of the American people. No one cares what she says, thinks, or does. She's become the Paris Hilton of politics. Way over exposed, but for some reason the media keep shoving her in our faces. Time to "move on", hehehe.

apparently GOP is saying Hitler was a liberal

I don't know about the GOP, but yes, apparently, a few individuals have rewritten history in their own minds, and Hitler is now, in their "realities," a progressive. Never mind that thousands of experts, scholars and textbooks completely disagree.

paris hilton of politics...thats a good one, im gonna use that. time to photoshop some pics and make tee shirts.

To sanbrunohippie....and yet you continue to follow her every word and feel the need to comment on it? Admit it, you are a closet Palin Lover.

Here is a question to all of you dems/leftist/progressives...who is to blame for the young man that shot the Holocaust Museum guard? The Discovery Channel offices? Who are you going to blame for these tragedies?

Just remember when you point the finger at someone, 4 of them are pointing back at you.

The COWARDLY LIAR IS NO VICTIM..she is the perp by ignorance alone--and C.Todd put on Donahue to defend her and his bringing 75 million to mislead the public ..Shameless...

Get this slub off the air and her inflammatroy lies and ghost scripted BULL PUCKY

Disgustinng ..No fork needed -sara is, you are done!

He also had Ayn Rand on his book list, although the right keeps failing to mention it.

Kov, we are trying to send a message to the media conglomerates, please stop giving her air time. I have not watched the video, just read the article. I will not give Palin 8 minutes of my time.

Gadzooks...it is great you do not want to watch her, I don't watch her either, I am here to discuss the meat of the issue, that the left is attempting to place blame for this shooting on Sara Palin( read all conservatives)...and now bash her response...I don't give a rats behind about how anyone feels about her personally, if it was not her, there would be some other conservative. Fact is, that this individual is insane, his classmates and friends new it...his parents ignored it, and yet we are attempting to blame a picture of the US with crosshairs...The left wants to blame Sara Palin, political rhetoric, and the gun for this shooting and that makes me think they are just as insane as the shooter.

Interesting side note...on the interview with his "friend" he confirmed that this nut has been mad at the congresswoman since 2007 when she was unable to answer his incoherent questions in person...long before any crosshairs...but that will not get the leftist media's attention, as it does not fit their bash Palin anti-gun agenda.

The left is "just as insane" as the shooter. That is why they are left-wingers: they are really out there. As my dad would say, if he were still living, they are "over the falls."

I think all this hate toward Palin is because they are jealous of her, she is cute and they are as ugly as sin, especially in their hearts and minds.

Anyone who grew up when I did, seeing left-wingers attack innocent soldiers returning from that hell know as Vietnam, knows exactly what "liberals" really are.

Russ

BRAVO Hippie! >"Harpy" by definition among other things is a female gargoyle. I'd hate to dream of Sarah hanging around on my roof waiting to paint a target on MY back!

You forget to mention that it's the republicans who kept putting out all the gun rhetoric. Are they "hiding behind their guns?"

Russ, When you have togo back in time 40 years to validate your insult, it really doesn't carry much weight.

I don't need to watch her YouTube video anymore than I need to tune in to watch any television pundits giving their opinion on this tragedy OR the issue of this article. I've heard enough of it, read enough of it, heard enough about it from other people, seen it enough on tee shirts, banners, cars and billboards. I GET IT! It's just that I disagree with ALL of the hateful rhetoric. Moreover, I enjoy forming an original thought apart from any input from a television character, which is all they are. While we're all complaining about the economy, these pundits and talking heads, both radio and televised, are getting filthy rich making US angry and dividing us in every way imaginable.

I don't need to see or hear these "millionaires", and I certainly will NOT allow them to have ANY input into my life. Unfortunately, it is just this sort of hateful speech that allowed Hitler to do his thing in Germany. A bad economy, political unrest, finding a segment of the populace to BLAME. . . .SOUND FAMILIAR, ANYONE? With that in mind, is it too far of a reach to imagine that more than a few Americans will be more susceptible to distorted thinking while hearing this sort of nonsense? No, it is not difficult to imagine because we SEE it happening right before our collective eyes.

WAKE UP, AMERICA!

Russell, your blind, generalized malcontent with "liberals" is just disconcerting as you are suggesting.

Your arguments are non-sequitor and sophomoric. While you may suggest that left-wingers are highly critical of Ms. Palin, the reality is that people of all political stripes are critical of her due to her relentless media-driven celebrity status. My personal arguments against Ms. Palin stem from her lack of political nuance, her false assertivenes, and her inability to provide effective statesmanship.

The fact that she is still a gorgeous woman simply does not matter. Heck, I'm ugly as sin, but trust me, I do not envy Ms. Palin.

gadzooks,

Apparently SanBruno doesn't speak for 99.99% of the people because there are pages of posts, hatemail if you will about Sarah Palin! A lot of people must care what she has to say even to condemn her this way!

KOV

Interesting side note...on the interview with his "friend" he confirmed that this nut has been mad at the congresswoman since 2007 when she was unable to answer his incoherent questions in person...long before any crosshairs...but that will not get the leftist media's attention

Doesn’t that kind of prove the point that since 2007 he hated the congresswoman but only now he shot her? What pushed him over the cliff? Is it the non-stop messages about government death panels and government taking your liberties away?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Palin is directly responsible for the shooting but I will say that the propaganda that is put out there by the likes of Palin and Beck is responsible for people's paranoia. Just Google Richard Poplawski.

Palin's and Beck's appearances are calculated and rehearsed. They are excellent at organizing rallies that have an "anti-government" anti Obama messages. They are proud of the numbers of people that show regardless of how many of them carry hateful, racist, bigoted signs.

They are responsible for motivating hate among Americans because when you hear the propaganda enough you might start to believe that it’s true.

Constantly ranted about a currency not backed by gold or silver (Man, I know I've heard that somewhere else before but just can't remember, darn)

JOHN F KENNEDY maybe? hum he "executive ordered it" just before he got killed, it was then scrubbed!

He must have been a crazy luny democrat president, must have been as bad a palin or ron paul or something..

I love how everyone from each party doesn't even know what their party stands for.

Bayllie,

I think you may be the one falling for propaganda. The rally that Beck put together and that Palin attended had nothing to do with anti-government or anti-Obama messages - it was all about restoring individual faith in God (whatever that may mean to each person). It was about acknowledging the importance of a belief in something greater than yourself. And, the podium was filled with priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, and other holy men of a wide variety of faiths. And, I believe that the attendees were asked not to bring signs and the vast majority complied.

Baylie, now the news is reporting that Jared's parents are saying that he did not watch much tv or the news and wasn't all that political...he is a mentally ill person who festered for years forming more and more incoherrent thoughts.

I am not a mental health professional, but clearly he had an issue with her for years. What drove him over the edge? I don't know, you don't know and no one knows as Jared is not talking...so why blame Sara Palin?????? Because that is what the leftist media is spewing out and the Sheeple follow.

I don't blame the conservatives, or the liberals. What Palin has done is absolutely nothing, nada. Not worth taking up space in any news site. Why this low iq loser keeps getting trotted out by the left as some sort of leader of the conservatives is beyond me.

shes the posterchild for political rhetoric. shes never said anything important, shes just the conservatives gun totting swim suit model. shes a trophy for those fat ugly white guys, to say, "hey, babes love fat ugly white guys, just look at this political groupie"

no no, its true...shes a big part of why you guys lost the election...but shes dumb too, guys, so stop throwing her out as the spokesperson for your side, your loosing alot of credibility to manage things....

When Sarah Palin found out about Gerald Ford dodging a bullet, she ask,"Why would someone shoot the president's ford"?

Well I am learning a lot about this so call community everyone of my comments have been collapsed is that the way they edit in here ? and its not about space because many others are taking up a lot more space.... I am understanding more about the one sideness of this so called comment area...

Thanks

GADZOOKS: Like a black friend of mine enjoys saying, "Call a Spade a spade!" These so-called "contservatives" are in reality Fascists and their interests have invested billions of dollars in Palin and they are now doing everything possible they can to save her arsch. That is why she is SO ubiquitous!!!

Look it up, Sarah!

the gunmen is a very sick person, no one but he is to blame for what he has done. he is responsible for himself just like we are responsible for our own sleves.

JBUG

And when someone shouts "fire" in a crowded theater and person A tramples person B, person B has no right to say the person who shouted fire is responsible in any way?

There may be no DIRECT linkage but for the life of me I dont see how conservatives dont get this???

Words (violent rethoric) do matter

Allen79934- Supply the forum with coherent, professional well-written comments and I guarantee they will not collapsed despite whatever your political ideology happens to be.

Imdy that a load of crap. LIBTARDS here just keep voting to supress everything they disagree with and then they say they don't control the media, the the republicans are the party of "no", that we're all stupid while damning policies that are inherantly democrat, like the gold standard. This has become nothing more than a place for people to sprew hate over and over and over again. It's beyond disgusting. The anti bush anti palin anti anything republican teabagging comments are just as worthless. and I for one cant see giving any one of these idiot any common respect anymore, screw em.

Sorry Jen but pigs really can't fly!

Edd, really? Ties to MoveOn.org? Did you get this from a credible source or did the guy post something there once? Sort of like since you posted at MSNBC.com you must be a flaming liberal as well.

simram, not she isn't. There is an excellent article over at the NY Times that has an interview with one of the killers few freinds. The killer had absolutely no regard for the real world. Totall nilhist since High School. What is distrubing is we can no longer say the parents didn't know he was into guns. He had been practicing since HS.

She's the cause?? How in the world is SARAH PALIN the reason that innocent people were shot? The shooter was a mentally unstable individual who did not know how to handle emotions. His close friend has come forward and stated that Jared did not watch Tv, was not involved with politics, and didn't care about what was going on in the world. Neither political party is to blame here. Sorry Liberals...attack Palin all you want but she has a valid point. The liberal media needs to stop pointing the finger at everyone else. Stop blowing up this story and give America the facts. He was a mental person who chose a target...unfortunately Giffords was a political figure. Let's leave it at that and hope the a**hole rots in jail.

Sovereign Citizens Movement---right wing extremist group of Jareds--Mother Jones...Just like the Dominionists that palin supports --no grip on reality!

Get this board off the front page --the cowardly video is a prime example of the delusion of her and her supporters...SHE LIES!

Reagan, many of these are just rehashed versions of the old John Birch society. They just changed the labels to protect the guilty.

Thats funny because the Dems do the same thing but you wont hear anything about that now will you ??

Allen: You poor dumb bloviator. Give us some examples.

Are you watching Oriley If you watch the news you would have seen the "Targets" or the W.V. dem taking a Shot with HIS 30.06 at the cap and trade bill......... I could go on but you are too one side to see the other side ..

Amen!

Allen--A Weapon aimed at PAPER is NOT THE SAME AS TARGETS POINTED AT YOUR HEAD OR YOUR CHILD'S...!!

Inanimate objects as opposed to people..False equivalencies !!! Not the same at all! It is about context...you are making the very same argument the quitter tried --Still does not fly---Still a sham!

These claims that the left uses just as much violent rhetoric as the right is nothing other than desperation now that those chickens have come home to roost.

Keep denying the obvious, Beck, Limbaugh and the rest. It is a very phony equivalency and there is no way around it, but keep trying anyway because all of America is watching.

So Reagan ..you are telling me the They used her face and a picture of some child to set this guy off.....and the "targets used by the dems are a whole different story because all of the left are such peace loving soles they would never do anything in a hurtful way.... you really need to read some of these hate post pointed at Conservatives.....strange from such a PEACE loving group....please pass the bong..and my food stamps...

You are exactly right. But that will never happen because Palin (the quitter) won't accept any responsibility for inflaming our political environment. She, and her ilk, like Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity spout garbage and lies so much it is sickening. For example: death panels, Obama is not a US citizen, etc. What amazes me is how many gullible people believe this crap. Unfortunately, half of the US population have a below average IQ. And most of them seem to vote Republican.

Allen, you need to stop listening to "Fox News", tell me an example of a democrat using the images and words this nitwit has.

Me4Texas: Another blogger on this post gave some examples of liberal violent rhetoric. Do you honestly think that liberals use this sort of rhetoric? Man, wake up.

The post said:

"As long as we're citing examples of incendiary rhetoric:

Remember Chris Matthews fantasizing on air about seeing Rush Limbaugh shot in the head?

The Craig Kilborn Show superimposing the words "Snipers Wanted" over the face of President George W. Bush.

Nobel "Peace Prize" winner Betty Williams publicly stating her desire to murder President George W. Bush.

British film makers Gabriel Range and Simon Finch making a 2006 movie fantasizing about assassinating President George W. Bush.

Alec Baldwin urging the murder of Henry Hyde, his family, and ALL Congressional Republicans and their families on national television.....

David Guy McKay and Bradley Neil Crowder, two America-hating left-wing terrorists, were arrested by the FBI after conspiring to firebomb Republicans at the 2008 GOP Convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The American Media refused to report the story.

NPR commentator and ABC News reporter Nina Totenberg wishing death by AIDS on Senator Jesse Helms and/or his grandchildren.

Julianne Malveaux publicly wishing death on Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Obama:“They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”

Obama to His Followers:“Get in Their Faces!”

Obama on ACORN Mobs:“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

Obama to His Mercenary Army:“Hit Back Twice As Hard”

Obama on the private sector:“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

Obama to lib supporters:“It’s time to Fight for it.”

Obama to Latino supporters:“Punish your enemies.”

Obama to democrats:“I’m itching for a fight.”

All from the LEFT, I might add."

Ask yourself..

If a neighbor put a crosshair on your city and listed your name, how would you feel?

Would you feel the same way if some deranged nut broke into your home and killed a family member. Would you say there is no linkage?

There may be no demonstrable linkage to the killing with the crosshairs but id bet you would think so.....

Here is some more of the hate and violence spewing from the left:

"I believe in ecoterrorism..."-James Cameron

F*** G*d d**ned Joe the G*d d**ned mother f**king Plumber! I want mother f**king Joe the Plumber dead!"-Liberal Charles Karel Bouley on air

"And then there's Rumsfeld who said of Iraq 'We have our good days and our bad days.' We should put this S.O.B. up against the wall and say 'This is one of our bad days' and pull the trigger.-St. Petersburg Democratic Club

"I want to go up to the closest white person and say: 'You can't undestand this, it's a black thing' and then slap him, just for my mental health."- Charles Barron

These are just some of the shorter ones I found and that took just a couple minutes. The left like to pretend to be peace-niks but the truth is they are just as brutal as they paint the right to be.

Kurtis, Please point out any hate filled rhetoric from Palin.

Apparently if I disagree with Obama, don't want Obama health-care, don't want to bail out the banks, don't want extended unemployment benefits, don't want to bail out the car companies - then I express hate filled rhetoric?

"She blames the media, she blames, blames, blames."

Wow!...sounds more like Obama!...:p

Bill in Houston, you righties always seem to forget that the bank bailout was done under Bush, but you keep blaming Obama for it, nice try.

It was Obama who campaigned "No bailouts" and then signed the bailout. An unconditional bailout with no checks or balances to make sure the money was used appropriately.

ck........why not ask the liberal media why you have to keep seeing and hearing about Sarah Palin.....they are afraid of her potential........you can go ahead and say that I am crazy........but, why do they continue to bring her name up??? I would think that they would just ignore her as they do not like her, but for some reason you hear or see her everyday on the liberal networks or internet sites.

It is the liberal media who keeps putting her on the screen. It is the liberals who mention her name over and over in thes forum. You are the ones the keep the crap flowing.

And she quit her job as Governor of Alaska mid-term. Irresponsible -- you betcha!

JustAThought - sounds like you are lying. What crowded theater has she ever yelled "fire" in?

Yelling fire in every theater is a metaphor, Brainzo. If the jerk who did the shooting was a Muslim or black Skanky Palin would say???????

John,

A metaphor, that would be something that means something different than what it actually says...... sort of like crosshairs on a map???

JC

Crosshairs are obviously a metophor to a sane person but to a wack job what does it mean?

And THAT is the issue