Hitler?

NRA

How would Sarah plain react if someone put crosshairs over her house? How would her rabid followers react? That's the point and she refuses to acknowledge it.

There's Freedom of Speech, but with that freedom comes RESPONSIBILITY.

She needs to learn that. Fast.

Yeah, but the rhetoric sure helps spur them on.

Palin and her family deal with death threats and words of violence all the time. This is so stupid, I get a headache from reading the responses on here and the unbridled hate...we are all humans and if we dont start acting like it this country will end up like a mad max movie...

Looks like the rhetoric has spurred the libs on to make inane accusations. MSN is just full of leftist BS this morning. Most of your posts here are simply the pot calling the kettle black. My apologies to those who put some actual thought into theirs.

It's funny how the far left/ Democrats forget all the nasty rhetoric towards Bush, Dick Cheney but according to them it's ok as long it don't effect their base. A lot of hypocrisy and double standards. I recall Obama spitting out some of his evil rhetoric and name calling towards the right! What's the matter Lib/Democrats, you all forgot or you can't remember? Very sad that this country would use this tragedy to create ugly blame game rhetoric at the exspense of other's pain, death.!!!!!! PITIFUL!!!!!!!

Poor Sarah plays the victim again.

When will the politicians learn that how they conduct themselves and what they say and publish is scrutinized. We try to teach our children what to say and not say knowing that words hurt and degrade and cause all sorts of problems. In the schools this sort of activity would be considered bullying. And there is zero tolerance for it, so why are our politicians allowed to keep doing this sort of behavior? Are we going to allow these juvenille politicians to keep this up? No wonder we can't get a handle on this nations problems...

Funny how the party of "Personal Responsibility" lacks personal responsibility...

I get it. It's all because of the irresponsible media. They are to blame. Is not Palin, Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity, all part of that irresponsible media? Are they not the ones who wag their fingers at all they oppose? They will tell you not,but if it quacks, waddles, swims, and flys, then I'm here to tell you. it's a duck.

My first thought was Charlie Manson. Didn't kill anyone, but he motivated others to do it. The statement is not comparing her with Manson, or Hitler, just that though people are responsible for their actions, words of leaders can motivate good people to do bad things. I thought she missed the opportunity to lead on that point.

Its funny how far the left and right have nasty rhetoric bbyanko. What isn't funny is when the rhetoric goes into 2nd Amendment solutions, and then when something DOES happen (as a lot of those left/Democrats warned) all she can say is you have to take responsibility for yourself? When will we see sarah take some responsibility?

This is not playing a blame game, this is not just rhetoric, she actually did and said those things!

Twisting this to be Palins fault is just wrong.

I don't specifically like her but I can't blame her.

Stuff happens.

Some people can get caught up in MOB MENTALITY and do stupid things that they otherwise wouldn't. Political and spiritual leaders know this and sometimes knowingly (or unknowingly in Palins case). Calm, rationaly debate serves us better a country, but she wouldn't know that.

So.. if someone blows up a target department store, are you guys going to blame it on their logo? Palin may have placed a target on the map, but it was not a "Kill them" target.. .It is was a political target. It is perfectly logical imagery. You cannot blame a politician for the actions of a deranged individual. It's not like she was talking to him on the phone telling him to do bad things. Stop spewing this nonsense and think about it for a change.

ALL of the people posting their HATE for Palin, IF somebody were to attack her (God Forbid) ARE YOU GUILTY TOO

No one has said the words made him do anything (except the right trying to muddy the waters) what everyone has said is the words that sarah used has contributed to the culture that this has happened in. No sarah is not directly responsible for pulling the trigger, but she and the others on the right made it easier to get a gun, harder to get help for a mental disorder and then talked about taking out politicians they didn't like with a gun.

And as far as sarah in the "crosshairs" of the media, give me a break, she jumps in the "crosshairs" any chance she gets, this ex-1/2 gov can go away anytime (please) and when you say the media has done to her what the killer did to those people you show yourself to be very uncaring about the real victims.

Just last year the same map Palin used was used by the Democrats with targets on them and not one liberal is mentioning that in these blogs. Even President Obama said the liberals need to target those fighting against his health care plan. Liberal Progressives are Hypocrites. The Sheriff of Pima County not withstanding.

This assassin was a son of hippies that didn't instill in him any responsibility for himself or for his country. His acquintances said he was allowed to do what ever he wanted without boundries. Well, he found the boundry he was looking for. He will be in a barred cell for the rest of his life and hopefully in a room with a needle stuck in his arm.

The school he attended and the police were contacted about his demeanor in and outside of his classes last fall, yet the only thing done about it was the school requested a phych evaluation before he could get back in school. The police did nothing, so I wonder why the Liberal Sheriff is taking the Offense on this issue. Maybe they think the best Defense is an Offense. He should stick to handing out parking tickets.

Amazing how conservatives such as yourselves can claim we all need to be personally responsible for what we say and do but have no problem defending Palin for her violent rhetoric.

It isn't just the cross-hairs on Giffords' district. It's "lock and load," "don't retreat, reload," it's calling your political opponents not "real Americans". It's a 24 hour "news" channel which barrages you day in and day out with how the people who don't agree with it's views are out to destroy the country.

RW media and leaders fearmonger and lay down violent rhetoric every day against their political opponents, comparing them to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, stating that the president isn't a citizen, calling HCR the destruction of America every day. EVERY DAY! 24-7.

And when one crazy or person with a weak grasp of reality finally snaps and does what Beck and Limbaugh and Palin and Angle have been hinting at for the past two years, all you conservatives suddenly didn't have anything to do with it, even though it's been the conservative wet-dream for at least the past 20 years.

The problem with politicians and groups being rhetorical with their suggestions of secession (Perry), Second Amendment remedies (Angle), "reload" (Palin), proof of Birth (Birthers), and is that there are unstable minds that cannot distinguish between rhetoric to fire up a base to secure votes and power, and the literal content of their messaging.

Please err on the side of safety and civility. You do not really know the mental state of those next to you, armed or unarmed, quiet or shouting, and you cannot see the reaction nor the events to unfold of these people who are experiencing the literal meaning the rhetoric vile vitriol spewing from mostly the fundamentalist right as they attempt to take back America. Yes we need political change. But we need an intelligent voter based, well learned in the reality of the issues. Read both sides of the issue, and do your own research when you experience conflicting arguments, do not blindly follow anyone left or right... both have an agenda.

Yes, we have the right to bear arms... but why would any rational and sensible person which to provoke anxiety in the masses by bringing pistols to political rallies? What's the point other than to intimidate or attract attention? Are these people in fear of their lives by those simply debating that require packing heat? I know the point is to showcase their "right" to bear arms... but at some point we all need to realize how we talk, how we appear, to others is not necessarily how others hear our understand our message.

There are consequences for what we say and do, Sarah.

Representative Giffords affirmed this, and you should listen, Sarah.

This woman is an idiot, but everyone keeps clinging on her every word. Quit being fools.. fools!

And MSNBC, wth is wrong with you? The last couple days YOUR pundits have commented repeatedly about "How come it's so silent from the Palin camp?" and now that she has said something you're all "I think she should keep her mouth shut and not say anything". Maybe YOU should shut the hell up and report on ACTUAL news and not play the same game as your other side plays. You people are sooo disgustingly stupid.

Her newest statement was released on facebook. How many people from the media that don't like Sarah Palin watch her every move?

Palin reminds me of the girl in high school that everyone knew. The one that loved to stir up trouble and always cried how she was the poor "victim".

Has this woman no shame, or conscience?

Despicable.

love how this guy is described as an anti-american flag burning Hitler loving leftwing nut case communist by people who new him and evidence found at his house, but the brain dead left keep saying hes a right wing nut case just because he used a gun he had to be. Typical brain dead media robots cant think for themselves.

What is so very sad is the blame game. People died and certain ideologues used the opportunity to trash those with differing ideologies. Palin isn't my choice of poster child for intelligence but the vitriol against her is astonishing.

It's been my observation that fear motivates a lot of speech and behaviour and apparently lots of people are frightened of Palin. Ditto the right wing conservatives who's speech is mirrored by left wing conservatives. Fear and hate go hand in hand, perhaps its time for the country to grow up and manifest adult behaviours. I feel like I'm in a country populated by ill-mannered adolescents.

As to the media, they're motivated by ratings, stir controversy, people weigh in, ratings go up...voila, more money comes in. Both sides of the political aisle are guilty as charged and its up to the mature, thoughtful and concerned individuals to regain control of the dialogue. Enough of screaming children...

If this wasn't all over a great tragedy, the comments and the left screaming about personal responsibility would have me falling out of my chair laughing.

According to the left, the left is never responsible for anything. They have no hate speech. No depictions of previous presidents being targeted. No targets painted over the districts they want to take on a map. No president standing in front of various groups explaining how ignorant and how big an enemy the opposing political side is. Nope, they never do anything like that. That is according to the left.

The real fact of the matter is they do all that stuff. It's no different and they're no better than the people on the right. So, step up lefties. You own just as much responsibility for this as anyone on the right. If you can't step up; sit down and shut up.

GeorgeOrwell

Amazing how conservatives such as yourselves can claim we all need to be personally responsible for what we say and do but have no problem defending Palin for her violent rhetoric.

What violent rhetoric? Grow up and quit being so sensitive and literal. By your warped logic, liberals should be attacking conservatives as should our military since Obama, THE PRESIDENT, labled anyone that doesn't agree with him an "enemy".

The press on this is ridiculous and I hope most thinking people can see through this. "Hateful Rhetoric???" Where? What is different now than it's been the last 1000 years of political debates? It isn't hateful rhetoric when people differ on philosophy....it's simply debate. And yes, there is a battle of sorts, but you don't see politicians shooting each other.

I don't like Palin much and I don't think she's qualified to lead the country, but she does actually have some good points in her Reagan quotes: It is time we stop blaming society for the failures of an individual and it is time for people to take some personal accountability for their actions.

Rheteric surely doesn't kill people - it incites the weak of mind.

No, but rhetoric is the impetus that people on the edge use to jump to violence. I have seen rhetoric incite people in my own experiences, and I really do believe that the violent suggestions made to try to beat out political candidates and ideas does promote violence in the imbalanced members of our society. More care is called for, and people who recommend violent actions do need to recognize that they are encouraging unbalanced people to commit terrible acts of violence.

Just out of curiosity...if tomorrow I went on every liberal talk radio show and said "im tired of the right pushing us liberals around, pretending like they own this damn country, its time we take our 2nd amendment rights seriously, and stand up for ourselves, they have guns, we should have guns...they are ready to go to civil war we are ready to go to civil war. they want to take back this country, well, they are going to have to pry it from our cold dead hands"

would that, not in the least, be a call to action amongst the crazier liberals listening? Or is just words, said, with no meaning?

I asked this question on another thread, but it seems to be appropriate here. If Osama bin Laden had created a website which contained photos of prominent Americans or their homes, with cross-hairs over those photos, and then some mentally deranged Muslim person (with no ties to Osama bin Laden or Al Qaeda) went and shot one of those people in their home, would you say it was just an isolated incident, or would you call it terrorism and place at least some of the blame on Osama bin Laden?

Now Palin is a Muslim. She is being painted with the same brush as one extremist. She speaks about violent responses to ideological differences, and minimizing her opponents to empty caricatures. In the same way as the right has bent over backwards to assume that all Muslims are hateful terrorists, people are starting to assume conservatives are the same. So, Sarah, how does it feel with the shoe on the other foot? You betcha. I feel NO sympathy for her AT ALL. She is reaping what she has sown. All Tea Party wingnuts who have used the same rhetoric should be treated the same way to see how they have made those they have "othered" feel. This is pretty poetic, really.

Yet, Photobeth, in the absence of violent or threatening themes in rhetoric, those same "people on the edge" will just find another inspiration to justify their actions. I'm pretty tired of the severity of the current political climate myself. However, any attempt to attribute the current political climate (never mind an individual) as the motivation of this tragedy is irresponsible, illogical, and reprehensible.

One has only to look back on history to see that government opinions were settled by fights, knives, and dueling to the death. This is what happens when society has been de-sensitised on every front. Remember the censorship on T V and Radio? Never saw the naval on "I Dream of Jeannie" did ya? There was no profanity. No lewd scenes. Not much "Blow em up" at the movies. Society has been hoodwinked by liberals and lefties. Thanks.

Jessica, no that would make you a nut job. The majority of Americans would marginalize you and go on with their day. If someone was inspired by those statements, the more likely scenario would be that what you say resonated with thoughts they themselves already arrived at or were taught to them at a young age.

Depends Carrianne. Were these photos and cross-hairs lists of people Osama wanted Muslims to vote out of office? Or, were they accompanied by a statement like "Allah demands that these people be killed for their insults to Islam"? Additionally, did the Muslim lose his job at a factory because the targted politician passed a bill that forced it's closure?

the guy was a nut looking for a place to happen .tim mcvay was looking for a reason to.countless other nuts do stufff for some sick reason. i guess if a person want to put the blame on some one else their just has sick has the person looking for a reason...

How bout we get a poll asking how people feel about how the democrates and others on the left have clearly used this sad event to further their political agenda. Palin is responding to the many fingers that were pointed at her. We are a country in which you are supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty", yet many have "convicted" Palin for involvement with this heinous act eventhough there is no evidence that she, or any other media personality had any influence on the young man that committed the shooting.

You even have Bill Maher specifically telling falsehoods on national television. How you only here this type of talk from those on the right. Yet, just a few years ago Bill Maher himself talked about how much better the country would be if our vice president had been killed in a suicide bomber attack (but Bill says this is just humor). Apparently Mr. Maher has not been reading the posts on the internet. Mr. Maher forgets that Bill Ayers was a terrorist and continues to say he will not denounce what he did. Ed Schultz on national television calls those on the right "bastards" yet it is only those on the right that are using "hate speach". WHAT HYPOCRITS!!!

Zoroaster...what does the cross-hair of a rifle and reloading have to do with voting someone out of office? Nobody uses a rifle to vote.

stealth "love how this guy is described as an anti-american flag burning Hitler loving leftwing nut case communist by people who new him and evidence found at his house, but the brain dead left keep saying hes a right wing nut case just because he used a gun he had to be. Typical brain dead media robots cant think for themselves."

can you explain to me how the anti-govt, unconstitutional talk, comes across to you as extreme left liberal? I mean, its right out of the tea party play book.

And, from what I understand of the Tea Party, they are a group made up of fed up republicans, independents and democrats (despite going on the ballot as republicans).

Did this guy have left leaning ideas, but identified with the extremist anti-govt, unconstitutional views of the tea party? is that really unfathomable?

I HATE Palin. I won't blame her for the shooting though. Anyone manipulated by what a politician says has only him/herself to blame. This discussion to tone down rhetoric is as utterly ridiculous as not drawing a cartoon because it may offend someone.

If Americans didn't want the rhetoric, they wouldn't listen or vote for such people. It is clear Americans (not just Republicans) do want such rhetoric and Sarah is just giving her pathetic following what they get off on - targets included. Supply will exist one way or another so long as there is a demand.

At one point Giffords herself called Sarah Palin out on this subject and said that rhetoric like this has it's consequences. Giffords was smart enough to realize the reality of the affect this kind of crap has on people, especially nut jobs.

Palin should try to emulate smart, considerate people like Giffords instead of emulating Limbaugh, Beck and the rest of the snarling Republicans.

stealth-2349266 Post #1.44

love how this guy is described as an anti-american flag burning Hitler loving leftwing nut case communist by people who new him and evidence found at his house, but the brain dead left keep saying hes a right wing nut case just because he used a gun he had to be. Typical brain dead media robots cant think for themselves.

This deranged man went to kill a passive Democrat - a member of the US House of Reps. His reading list not only included Mein Kampf and the Manifesto, but also some big-name Disney films and childrens' books. It's clear he was not a political person with any consistent ideology.

The point made by many is not that he is a left-wing or right-wing nut case. The point is that he IS A NUT CASE. Psych 101: Whackos are unstable, and do not respond well to agitation. They are easily stimulated to take a-social action. Highly charged emotional environments can do it - they do not discern between left or right-wing yelling or suggestions of violence. Constant repetition of angry comments or rudeness or inuendo or suggestions that the government is a danger to us cannot be filtered by folks like this.

So - in the past two years, a lot of angry, misleading, gun-related shouting has gone on - rude interruptions of speakers, weapons at rallies, insulting signs with violent comments, preachers and radio show hosts and tv pundits discussing how secret movements here are trying to bring this country down, and others babble about the "end of days"..... The rhetoric has been toxic, unfiltered, and our supposed "leaders" have not spoken out against this type of conversation. Recently on the right, they have encouraged it. (it's easier to get a mob to attack if you hand everyone pitchforks...)

So please clarify your claims as to how anyone can identify this shooter as a left-wing or right wing supporter. You missed the boat entirely. It's not about his political ideology. It's about living in a swirling sea of emotional outbursts that encourages more outbursts... and who is providing the energy for those outbursts....

political motive is a sick reason to blame palin for the work of a nut.they run over protesters in china we were shocked. they run over them at waco and burn baby's we were you do what the government tells you....sick ain't it.

pajamash - actually, the left isn't using this to advance their "agenda," the left is telling the right to stop with the hate speech, because THIS is what happens when an entire country is used to referring to their opponents as less than human, and is all porned up about guns.

I've presented below SOME examples of the behavior and language of left-wing zealots, whose hypocrisy is utterly astounding when one considers their flimsy attempts to connect conservative talk-radio with the Arizona shooting:

National Public Radio's Nina Totenberg said "Jesse Helms or his grandkids should get AIDS."

On Air America, Mike Malloy said, "This Bush crime family is about theft and greed and fraud and lies and war and death and posturing. They are beyond evil."

Sam Seder, also of Air America, said, "Let's go to Brit Hume, the horrible scumbag, who many people consider somewhat responsible for the fact that his son committed suicide."

Janeane Garofalo, another Air America celebrity, called Hillary Clinton "A big f***ing whore."

Democratic Senator Dick Durbin called a group of American soldiers "Nazi's."

Democratic congressman John Murtha was quick to call a squad of U.S. Marines "murderers" (yet refused to apologize even after the Marines were exonerated of alleged crimes).

The reunited rap-rock band "Rage Against the Machine" advocated at the Coachella music festival that the Bush administration be "shot" like Nazi war criminals.

Or what about the movie "Death of a President?" It wasn't even about assassinating a fictitious president, but rather the actual man in office at the time, George Bush. And the movie won the top award at the Toronto film festival, so it must have appealed to a large, impressionable audience of left-wingers.

And where was the outrage from the left when Chris Matthews stated on his TV show that someone should jam a CO2 pellet into Rush Limbaugh's head so he would "explode like a giant blimp" – and that Chris would surely be there to watch it?

Where was the outrage from the left when Joy Behar said on her TV show regarding Sharron Angle that "she is going to hell, this bitch"?

Where was the outrage from the left over a Joe Manchin ad in the last election where he is shown with a rifle shooting a hole in a cap and trade bill?

And for all the ridiculous hoopla over Sarah Palin's map showing crosshairs for electoral targets, where was the outrage over Democrats using a similar graphic to target their electoral foes in 2006?

Worse yet, left-wing protestors in San Francisco carried signs reading: "Bush the only dope worth shooting; Save Mother Earth Kill Bush; Hang Bush for War Crimes; Bush is the Disease Death is the Cure; I'm Here to Kill Bush (Shoot Me); Worst President Ever (written over a background photo of George Bush with a bloody gunshot wound to the head); Death to Extremist Christian Terrorist Pig Bush; and Death to World's #1 Terrorist Pig Bush & His Sheep.

Left-wing protestors also burned effigies of George Bush and suggested (with signs held high) that he be beheaded. I could list more vitriol from the left-wing, but maybe it's more effective and time-saving for casual readers to simply inspect the actual hate-filled signs on this website:

http://www.binscorner.com/pages/d/death-threats-against-bush-at-protests-i.html

But wait! What about the statements made by our "Commentator-in-Chief," Barack Obama, who commands a vastly larger audience than any conservative talk-radio host? Obama said, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun...because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl."

Then Obama told his admirers, "I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are Independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face."

Obama told NBC, "I don't sit around talking to experts because this is a college seminar...We talk to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose ass to kick."

It's pretty obvious to me that left-wing zealots are not exactly amateurs when it comes to mud-slinging, vicious name-calling, and threats of violence. Yet they still pretend to be saints. Like I said earlier, their hypocrisy is utterly astounding!

"can you explain to me how the anti-govt, unconstitutional talk, comes across to you as extreme left liberal? I mean, its right out of the tea party play book."

@Jessica - The great majority associated with The Tea Party are not "Anti-government". The Tea Party, in general, is a group who advocates smaller government spending. That is not being "anti-govt" that is being fiscally responsible. Our debt is too high. We can not continue to spend past our means.

Well Carrianne, I've seen "rejected" stamps used in political candidate advertising. To this day, I've never used a "rejected" stamp when voting.

The zoraster "Jessica, no that would make you a nut job."

Interesting, cause those phrases I used have come from the right. Granted not all smooshed together like I have, but anyone who's listened to right wing talk radio, or Fox News, has heard an abundnace of those sentiments...and the Cold Dead Hands, well, thats obvious - Charles Heston, NRA.

"The majority of Americans would marginalize you and go on with their day."

Like they have the right? odd, I havent seen that happen. The media has, but not a majority of americans.

"If someone was inspired by those statements, the more likely scenario would be that what you say resonated with thoughts they themselves already arrived at or were taught to them at a young age."

*scratches head, so what you're saying is that crazy right wing folks who raise children, and teach them their same crazy right wing thoughts, are in fact infecting their kids and setting them up for doing crazy @!$%#?

Well, isnt that sort of the point of the media lately? No one said Palin was to blame, or Rush, or Glenn Beck...but rather, the atmosphere and tone is whats diseased, and that disease spreads to our kids.

As for the notion of "influence"...im pretty sure it exists, otherwise parents wouldnt be so freakish about who their kids hang out with, would they? And remember, this guy was 22 - practically a kid still.

Judas? Al Capone? Tinker Bell? Sarah Palin? Frankenstein? George Bush?

Pajama...prove that he leaned left. We don't know which way he leaned at this point. We don't know very much about him at all, other than what other people are saying about him. Whether he leaned left, right, or straight down the middle, the rhetoric involving guns, bullets, rifle scopes and baseball bats (Ann Coulter) needs to stop. The problem is that we are looking at this as people who are fully aware of reality and what is right and what is wrong. Unfortunately, not everyone in this country is at full mental capacity like we are. Taking that into account, EVERYONE needs to think for a minute about how their words might affect someone who is not necessarily "all there".

And Zoro -- if you are now going to equate a "rejected" stamp with cross-hairs and reloading, you just lost the debate.

I don't think any of you Libs have read the updates of the articles...or the new one, where his friend is saying he was a liberal, and very upset with "his representative" because she couldn't answer his question...which BTW, his friends say, made no sense.

I couldn't give a rat's @$$ about Palin, but she is not to blame for this...a very sick young man is...I wonder if they will find a brain tumor the size of a tennis ball in his head? Honestly, have any of you read some of the rants he made? They sounded more insane that political to me...

goparefools

pajamash - actually, the left isn't using this to advance their "agenda," the left is telling the right to stop with the hate speech, because THIS is what happens when an entire country is used to referring to their opponents as less than human, and is all porned up about guns.

Oh give me a break! How hypocritical can you get? This entire thing is just another version of hate speech against Palin.

Obama calling republicans "the enemy", "bring a knife to a gun fight", "this is a battle", etc etc etc.

This is the left telling the right to stop talking bad about their liberal crap agenda

Jessica, good points and yes, that's what I'm saying; short of Rush or Glenn Beck spreading a disease. There is a continually growing lack of accountability in America where we blame society, media, government, or the individual politicians themselves rather than the person who acted. Makes it easier to place blame when it isn't someone who we have to justify our accusations to. People blame schools for the way kids act; yet they spend much more time at home with families - or at least they should. Additionally, this guy may have been 22, but, his intelligence obviously was ahead of his years. Unfortunately, his emotional progression was behind.

Oh, and Jessica, let's not forget the crazy left wing folks setting their kids up to do crazy @!$%#.

Jemma77 -- How would she like it? Not at all. Palin reacted to someone (a journalist) moving into the house next to hers by building a high fence and trying to get him ousted from his rental. No, she wouldn't like anyone asking about her, writing about her, talking about her, certainly not putting a big target on her house -- but it's just fine for her to do that to others.

This sort of mentality, from Palin and her crowd, is clinically psychotic. Paranoid schizophrenic. Little wonder the people who listen to them are starting to go crazy too.

Wow, talk about a bad decision. Palin was basically handed a golden opportunity, on a silver platter, to be a leader. She had a chance to rise above everyone else, and be the better person. Instead, she proves all her opponents right.

This was the perfect opportunity for her to reach out to the moderates and prove she is not an extremist. As it stands now, she has support from the far right . . . and THAT'S IT. She is too extreme for moderates, and there is NO CHANCE she can win 2012 with ONLY far right votes.

Can you imagine the impact she could have had, and the moderate votes she could have gained, if she said something like this:

"The responsibility for this tragedy, without a doubt, lies solely in the hands of the shooter. To blame anyone else is simply a political ploy. That being said, I will admit that the current state of our political landscape has given way to extremely hateful and violent rhetoric. This has occurred on both sides of the spectrum. I am going to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for the actions of my camp and vow to change things immediately. If we are to change Washington, we must first start with the way we get to Washington. I will be an example of that change. I will be an example of personal responsibility. I will show the American people the way things should be done. From this point on, the hateful rhetoric stops. I may disagree with the President and the Democratic party, but there are more mature and responsible ways to express our different views."

You do not become a leader by stooping to the level of your attackers, you become a leader by rising above them.

That is not Russia you see in the distance, Sarah. That is your last chance for 2012 drifting away. When you lose, you have only yourself and your horrible decisions to blame.

And when people hear other people repeated yell, "RELOAD" and "take 'em out!" then sometimes those other people take them at their word. When King Henry II got angry at Thomas Becket (Archbishop of Canterbury) and said, "Will no one rid me of this man!?" his soldiers took it upon themselves to assassinate Becket, even though that wasn't what Henry wanted. Sometimes it is best to show your class and keep yer mouth shut!

@carianne - "prove that he leaned left." Yet you have no problem with associating him with the right! Prove to me he had any connections to Palin or any other right leaning media personality!

Her biggest problem is she will never understand how words/symbols have meanings. For instance...the swastika has meanings...even though it is thousands of years old. Her and others using a gun sight has meanings.

The meaning of this eight minute video is that she's being defensive for her stupidity. Worst part of this is that a normal person would've taken time to not look stupid in public. She seems to believe stupidity is a virtue. You want to be taken seriously...get out of the spotlight...raise your family and between these two things...get an education...rather than believing that your looks/lack of intelligence/knowledge will make people respect you. Whenever your toddler looks more intelligent than you do...something is wrong with you and your message.

NBC and their bias REPORTING seems to want to ignore: (from Vegas Yank)

* Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

* Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”

* Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your? enemies.”

* Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

* Obama: "They Bring a Knife...We Bring a Gun"

* Obama to His Followers: "Get? in Their Faces!"

* Obama on ACORN Mobs: "I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!"

* Obama to His Mercenary Army: "Hit Back Twice As Hard"

* Obama on the private sector: "We talk to these folks... so I know whose ass to kick."

* Obama referring to Republicans as"the enemy"

Democrat map also featured crosshairs which is provided in screenshot
democratunderground.com put crosshairs on Sarah Palin, provided in screenshot

ISN'T IT TIME AMERICANS STOPPED BLAMING EACH OTHER AND OFFERED/TRIED SOLUTIONS for OUR COUNTRIES PROBLEMS!

Marie Pierce

I don't think any of you Libs have read the updates of the articles...or the new one, where his friend is saying he was a liberal

Because his friend said so? Funny, and what party does his friend associate himself with? Didn't think you knew. Nice try, thanks for playing.

Why is she using a term referred to Jews? Is she making up another word? And why is the focus on her? Why hasn't she made a comment about the assassinations and the victims?

There's been tons of opinions on the right and the left of this tragic senseless attempt on Rep. Gifford's life not to forget the collateral destruction of the families and individuals that attended the meet and greet that day. To say the man was unstable is an understatement. To say the the vile political rhetoric had a hand in this man's reason could be debatable depending what side of the aisle you support.

But what I feel is that the politoco has reacted as I thought they would. Pointing fingers, debating freedom of speech and 2nd amendment rights.

Rather than looking in the mirror and asking themselves just for a moment could our outlandish, sometimes even violent rhetoric that is thrown back and forth could give an "unstable" individual the push they need to act irrationally? No matter how passionate our elected officials, pundits and media commentators are can they not with all the words at thier disposal, feel the need to get their point across is to defame or ridicule the opposition?

This useless finger pointing and school yard name calling I beleive is the reason government no matter who's in office can never get anything of substance done and if it is completed it's way overdue and the American people are the one holding the short end of the stick. Because no one can be wrong or mistaken. Everyone needs to be right and of course I speak of the afore mentioned media, pundits, and elected officials.

But let's get back to the main issue which is inflammatory rhetoric and does it contribute to irrational acts by an unstable mind. My opinion is yes because I'm still entitled to it but yours may differ and that's ok but remember those who speak to us via the boob tube and radio have their own agenda.

Will any true conservative stand up to this woman and say enough is enough? She is making your party look like fools. I, as a dem, admit the left has had it's share of negative connotations. When will the real conservative patriots stand up and condemn this woman?!!

MtMike -

So what you are saying is two wrongs make a right? Instead of rising above the other party and being the better person, you act like a 5 year old and say: "Well Jimmy does it too."

Obama has apologized for what he said. That's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. What did your party do? Play victim. Now who looks like the bigger person? Who looks like a leader?

Face it, your party missed a golden opportunity to prove to America that they are leaders. Instead of being the bigger person, they stooped to the level of all the other scum. Good game.

Pajama...you obviously didn't read past the first sentence of my post. If you are just going to read the first sentence and jump to conclusions, it seems pretty obvious to me how someone who can't distinguish rhetoric from reality could take cross-hairs and "don't retreat, reload" as a literal, rather than figurative.

Stealth, when are you teahadists going to learn that Hitler and the Nazis were right-wing, just like you. Sheesh!

Sailcat...Yes...And without a gun, a whole lot less are killed. I am imagine Palin's panties are in a bind right now because sane, rational people know how easy it is to set off an unstable mind. Palin doesn't get this...guess why?

Palin threw away a chance to rise to true leadership when she issued this statement. She could have taken the opportunity to admit (as all responsible politicians of all stripes should) that the tone of political discussion has gotten way out of hand, and that the way forward is to drop the inflammatory stuff and talk about the issues in a reasonable way, accepting the fact that good people who love America are very divided on the important challenges facing our country. She could have been statesman-like, thoughtful and unifying. Because we all know that words from a leader can and do influence how people think and behave.

Instead she elected to take the low road, behave defensively, lash out at her critics, and add to the heat, emotion, and anger.

Jemma!

A liberal comic said during the election that Sarah and her dayghter (who was 14 at the time) Should be raped by some big black brothers if the ever came to new york!

So what you are basically saying id that if you are a liberal you can say any thing you want and it is OK.

Bill Ayres and his crowd bombed and killed people and Obama still denies that he had anything to do whit him but people know the truth anyway.

Sarah had nothing to do with this shooting! The man was obsessed with this woman. He shot her for NO politcal reason!

The real question I have for you and all the other liberal boneheads.

"If this woman is a moron, irrevelant, stupid, unelectable, a quiter, a bad mother and all the other things you say she is. You might want to ask yourselves why you are so afraid of her.

She must NOT be any of the things you say she is for you to be so scared!

Has anyone forgotten who Son of Sam is? He also claimed he was influenced by others. Hinckley is another who heard voices but spouted rhetoric he'd heard in the press or by someone he considered more enlightened. John Lennon is still just as dead.

Responsibility is a wonderful thing. You can make a success of it or you can ignore it and become a failure. At this point, that's what is staring Palin in the face.

It goes beyond rethoric when it comes to Sarah Palin's speeches. She has incited people to reload and has shown in her Canadian show that guns are ok for families. What message is she trying to get out there? Guns is ok, it is an absurd that in a country where anybody can buy a gun in KMart, a politician is giving them speeches that sound like "Let's go to war, let's get our guns and fight..." Come one...instead of coming out with the "liberals guilty" garbage, she should have come out with "please do not use guns..., don't kill people to prove your point...or other statement that would have had a better effect on the unhinged...

@corianne - "

Pajama...you obviously didn't read past the first sentence of my post. If you are just going to read the first sentence and jump to conclusions, it seems pretty obvious to me how someone who can't distinguish rhetoric from reality could take cross-hairs and "don't retreat, reload" as a literal, rather than figurative."

I read the whole thing. You try to come across as someone who is straight down the middle but the only references you take shots at are people on the right. Example: your last post you take a shot at Ann Coulter. And judging from your "Don't retreat, reload" comment toward me, I don't think you are so different from Sarah. I also feel from the comments you posted that you lean left and believe the rediculous connection so many have viewed. If it is true fine, but it is typical that so many are rushing to judgement when no evidence has been presented to support any connection to the shooter and media personalities.

It is a figure of speech. The phrases that Obama said, "they bring an knife..." is a figure of speech. How antiseptic do we have to make things folks?

I agree with you Carianne in your view of the young man. However, how would changing the way we say things change the outcome of the event? The young man didn't even think words had meaning so how could he possibly have been influenced by what was said or written?

These were questions about the vitriol used by politicians, the public, and the pundits!! How do you single out one without calling out all of us. We are all guilty of all the discourse. Palin and her targets have been used by both sides. The reload and other statements, I think did create a threat to violence, but probably no more so than others have said or done in the past. If I read this survey correctly, we are being asked if we agree or disagree and I for one think that we are all guilty, not just one party or the other and not just the pundits. We listen to these people, we make them what they are. We all need to take responsibility for creating the climate for hate. We tone it down and we write these so-called broadcasters and let them know, we are tired of the rhetoric and tired of the half-truths coming from their media. It is time we learned to heal ourselves.

Is Sarah Palin responsible for Virginia Tech? That incident involved the same psychotic violence. In this case, there are institutions, agencies, and individuals who could have protected us from this psycho, but they failed to do so. If fingers are to be pointed, they need to be pointed at them.

Besides, how many conservative potheads do you know?

is true, she have this idea that anything she says is right, but when something like this happend she turn around and says is not my fault, flip flop anyone?she thinks she is special, watch what you say, it may come back to bite u in the butt, you are not special, think first, then speak, something she cant seem to do..........

Palin's use of "blood libel" is perfectly valid. She's expanding the meaning of "blood libel" beyond it's original application to Jews, since Tea Partiers, right-wingers, and she herself are being blamed for the actions of someone who doesn't even share in their ideology.

I've listened extensively to talk radio, and have never heard anyone call for harming anyone who disagreed politicly, as have the Democrats. There was a call for Rep Hyde's wife & children to be stoned, several calls for George Bush to be assasinated. The left wing rock groups verbiage (in their so-called music), along with the movies and video all filled with more hate and vitriol. Unbelievable the garbage they put out.

I was offended by all her SMILING!! What is up with that? Her words were all about defending herself, and as empty as her head and heart.

I agree with Sarah Palin, it did not have anything to do with anything anyone said, this guy should have been in the nut house all along. The police are most responsible as they did not do their job in putting this guy in a place for crazy people when they did nothing with all of his arrests. He should not have been on the loose.

Mark -

A liberal comic said during the election that Sarah and her dayghter (who was 14 at the time) Should be raped by some big black brothers if the ever came to new york!

A comic is COMPLETELY different than a political figure. Comics make a living by insulting, making jokes, and trying to offend as many people as possible. If you have ever seen a comic, you would know this. Have you heard of a "Roast"? That is where comics come together and try to say the most offensive things to each other. That is what they do. That is their job.

You can not compare a comic to a serious political figure.

Hmmm, Cali. But, according to the prevailing logic, politicians make a living by insulting, making jokes, and trying to offend as many people as possible. Not seeing how an unstable person, vulnerable to suggestion, would distinguish between a comic and a politician.

As usual the right is framing the argument, lots of long lists of terrible things said by liberals.

No one is saying SP did this except the right. The left is trying to say the rhetoric has created a climate where this kind of thing was just brewing. And the party of personal responsibility has once again shown it personal responsibility for everyone else.

In the most permissive gun state, there was not a gun solution, lets tone down the rhetoric, get serious about gun laws and mental health issues. Lets use health care reform to catch this kind of thing earlier. Lets not be held hostage by fear, keep politicians available to we the people.

I agree 100% and if anyone is inciting violence it is as she says, the journalist and media that put it out there.

"blood libel"? The Public must be a turd because she is working overtime in order to @!$%# them! It is now official, Palin is an alimentary canal with no control at either end! Time to sew up both loose ends!

@Thoughts from Cali - "A comic is COMPLETELY different than a political figure. Comics make a living by insulting, making jokes, and trying to offend as many people as possible. If you have ever seen a comic, you would know this. Have you heard of a "Roast"? That is where comics come together and try to say the most offensive things to each other. That is what they do. That is their job."

Again, the Bill Maher defense. A roast is a situation where the party being roasted is aware that the comments to be thrown the roasti's way will be knocks against them. I remember fondly the Dean Martin roasts. They were done with much more class. I'm sorry but a comic can not hide behind their profession when they are talking about a woman being raped. Rape is a vile act perpetrated on women, typically not for sexual pleasure, but for power over the women. Rape, the act, and making jokes about rape go beyond the pale.

The Bill Maher, "it's humor" defense reminds me of how the "N" word should not be used. Of course, unless you are a member of a minority that uses an extremely derogatory word as a means of endearment. A word synonymous with slavery.

If Palen's use of Blood Libel is wrong than that comics use of rape is wrong. You can't use the word campaign any longer because that is a military word. You can't use the phrase, "I have my sight set on..." because it referrences a fire arm. Obama's use of the phrase, "If they bring a knife...you bring a gun", was wrong. Anyone getting how silly this is getting? Who is going to police this? Are we going to have a "Word Tzar"?

After reading all of your comments above, I am truly scared for the human race! You all are hypocrits playing the idiotic blame game! It's time to grow up and realize that we are adults that dictate our own actions.

Palin's map does not differ at all from the "Targeted Republicans" map I saw on the Democratic website. Instead of crosshairs, they used bulls-eye targets. Neither of those two maps make me want to go out and kill 6 people!

No matter if you're a Righty or Lefty, to shift the blame to another just because of politics is assinine. She didn't give the guy the gun, nor did she point his hand and pull the trigger. That disturbed young man did that all on his own. You all are such hypocrits and don't even realize it...scary.

@Maple12string - Wow! and you have a problem with the phrasing Palin chose? Your post is much more filled with hate than anything I have ever heard Palin utter.

Palin is a hypocritical liar attempting to save her career (of running around) that she thinks she has. In spring, she targets Gabby with violent symbols and now she comes out to blame others for what she has said and done in the past. But where, after so many days, is her apology and sympathy expressing condolences to the deceased and injured in AZ? Try reading the real news and not some second rate social media. She goes on to say while quoting Regan: "It's time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." Yes, Palin, now is the time to stand up and be accountable for your actions and statements of hatred expressed to Gabby and others. And to think yourself as worthy of representing us as a candidate for the President?!? Guess again?? Our Country does not need someone of your type running our Nation that is struggling in difficult times with your lacking the ability for a civilized, intellectually educated, well informed, factual, and mature conversation while hiding behind the social media. Grow up and express your condolences to those families killed by the political rhetoric regardless of what party or who was responsible. It's about time you stop thinking about yourself and the Party first. We are sick and tired of hearing about your bullying school yard behavior. This includes all the other high profile condescending cartoon characters playing the blame game on others just to improve their political party status and agenda.

Both sides need to learn to shut their mouths. Politics is suppose to be a debate not a war and that's what its turned into.

Pajama...I have never claimed to be "right down the middle". I'm definitely a Progressive...Liberal...Democrat...Commie Pinko...whatever you want to call me. However, because of this tragedy, I am trying to be less confrontational and come to the middle to see both sides. Yes...the comments I mentioned came from the right...and, yes, the left also uses hyperbolic rhetoric in expressing their opinions...but, you have to admit that in MOST cases, analogies using guns and gun references are predominantly used by the right.

there would claim Sarah Palin was to blame if hell froze over. Get real the shooter is the only person to blame here.

HEY WOAH sven i smoke pot and hate religion but i havnt shot any one. I also dont beleive im liberal seeing as i think war is a great economy booster, Dont generalize.

To blame Palin is about as stupid as anything I've heard lately. This guy was aliberal, yet they continue to blame a conservative, even with the facts staring them in the face. I don't understand what it takes to think liberally like that, I guess that makes me an infidel or a conservative. All the left does is blame the right for everything not utopian. I used to think I was liberal, but I'm obviously not. Such BS thinking is nuts.

The left is just as guilty as the right. Neither is right. neither extreme represents a majority of our citizens. I have seen this nut described as both a leftist and a tea bagger. There is no evidence that he was at all politically motivated. Or that he listened to the hate mongers on either side. Each side is trying to use this for political gain. This is reprehensible no mater which side you are on. Lets call it what it is a senseless act of violence by a true lunatic.

Sven...way to contribute to a positive discourse. I guess some people never learn anything from tragedy, which is why history appears to be doomed to repeat itself.

The shooter is to blame period. No evidence has been presented to show this was done because of his political views.

If anything, google yourself and you will see more he is a socialist/communist then a conservative.

You leftwing liberals are just using this tragedy to further your agenda in taking action against a party that is beating you.

If both sides don't stop, I fear another attack may be on the horizon; and that attack could be done by the left or the right.

When that happens, watch out for Civil War II.

If you can't stop feeding the flames and adding negative comments, you are just as guilty as the other side.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

To all of you posting the supposedly-equivalent hate-rhetoric from the left:

Please read the full text and not just the sound-bites. Where did that quip about Obama bringing guns if they brought knives come from? Why, GOP staffer Joyce Kaufman, who was defending herself after making this statement at a Tea Party Rally:

“And I don’t care how this gets painted by the mainstream media. I don’t care if this shows up on YouTube, because I am convinced that the most important thing the founding fathers did to ensure me my First Amendment rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will. I’ve never in my life thought that the day would come where I would tell individual citizens that you are responsible for being the militia that the founding fathers designed – they were very specific. You need to be prepared to fight tyranny: whether it comes from outside or it comes from inside.”

Here's what Politifact has to say about her claim:

On her radio show Nov. 12, Kaufman suggested she isn't the only political player to use rhetoric that some could interpret as inciting violence.

"Nobody has played clips over and over again on the FOX (News network), which is supposed to be fair and balanced, of President (Barack) Obama said, 'If they bring a knife to the fight, we'll bring a gun,' " Kaufman said. "I've never heard that clip played. We all know it was said. Did the cow play that? No. Of course not. Because we knew what he meant. These are metaphors, these are ways of stating in large terms simple facts. President Obama was saying if they try to fight us and pick at us with amendments we will come at them with legislation. And that's what he did. I knew that’s what he meant."

Obama was quoting from the 1987 movie The Untouchables about gangster Al Capone (played by Robert De Niro) and the efforts of government agent Eliot Ness (played by Kevin Costner) to bring down Capone during Prohibition in Chicago. The trailer on YouTube contains the quote that Obama borrowed -- muttered by actor Sean Connery playing cop Jimmy Malone -- in a sinister voice: "You want to get Capone? Here is how you get him. He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That is the Chicago way."

We also found a June 23, 2008, article in the Chicago Tribune, which stated that Obama meant the line delivered at the Philadelphia fundraiser as a joke.

* Ms. Kaufman later said the "cow" she was referring to was Rachel Maddow, who she calls MadCow.

And, if Ms. Kaufman said, "no one has ever heard that clip played", how would some nut job take it out of context and shoot someone because of it. You NEVER, EVER hear Democratic politicians making violent statements about their opponents in public. Public hate speech from political leaders is from the right, not the left.

Carianne - ...and most name calling (especially racist) comes from the left. Anybody who doesn't like Obama has to be a racist, right? Isn't that the knee-jerk reaction from the left...NAME CALLING?

Pajamash -

Sorry, but you are wrong and the law supports me. A comic can make outrageous comments, offensive comments, and basically lie while still being protected by the law which allows all of this under satire rules. If it is obviously done to be humorous, it is ok.

I'm sure you absolutely hate TV shows like South Park and Family Guy which consistently pokes fun at rape, murder, and every other horrible action. But again, these are comedic shows for entertainment purpose.

A comic does not hold the same persuasive power as a political figure with millions of followers. No one watched Cartman kill a boy's parents, grind them up into chili, and feed them to their son . . . and then went out and did that in real life, claiming the cartoon persuaded them to do it. No on watched the people of South Park team up with Osama Bin Laden to fly planes into the Jersey Shore cast, and then try to do the same in real life . . . they didn't even use that as a calling to kill the cast of Jersey Shore.

A political figure that riles people up for change, calling on their millions of followers to get up a take action. Comics use comedy to get a laugh, and nothing more. Even the Stewart rally was more about coming together, laughing, and stopping the hate speech . . . and that is about as close as you can get to a comic getting their followers to act on something.

If you can not see the difference between a person who tries to get his audience to laugh, and a person that tries to get their audience to get up and actually take action . . . then you will never understand.

The Obama example was the closest thing you have, and he was the bigger man by admitting that this is wrong. I have more respect for someone who admits what they did was wrong over someone who points fingers, plays the victim, and says "But . . . But . . . But . . . they do it too."

Duane, the topic of this particular discussion is Palin's recorded reaction. Of course the shooter is to blame for his actions. He is the person who fired those bullets. Nobody is disputing this.

Never have I seen Palin accept real responsibility for any of her questionable actions. She's a joke who, unfortunately, is taken far too seriously by far too many disturbed people. She put Congresswoman Giffords' name on her hit list, in her "cross-hairs." That is an indisputable fact. She should own up to it and admit that to do so was inflammatory and poor judgement on her part, at minimum. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. All she knows how to do is spin, deflect, deny and blame. It's despicable.

As someone else put it on another thread, "Sarah Palin is a turd of the stinkiest kind." Precise analogy!

She's expanding the meaning? So SP now is re-writing the meanings of words? Oh wait, she's already been doing that. That happens when you have people with no clue using words they do not know. They just change or "expand" the meaning.

@Carianne - "but, you have to admit that in MOST cases, analogies using guns and gun references are predominantly used by the right."

Oh please! Note the comments above the and the number of times Barack Obama made reference to guns, knives, fighting, enemy. I listen to Keith Olbermann, I listen to Ed Schultze, I listen to Mike Malloy. All of which have made statements that incite. All have made reference to guns in the terminology they use.

I commend you on your stress to be less confrontational. However, making the statement that guns and gun references are predominantly used by the right is confrontational. Our language is full of references to guns. Note my earlier post. I do not find that one side uses gun references more than the other. Quite frankly I find that statement to be very arrogant.

Get real...most racist name-calling comes from the left? Okay...I'm done. This has all gotten too ridiculous. Some people just don't appear to have the ability to have a reasoned discussion and have developed the art of projection of their own faults onto others to a level beyond reality.

I hope that someday we can all start looking at each other as human beings instead of Democrats or Republicans or Liberals or Conservatives. But, first, the name calling and anger has to stop...and, unfortunately, I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

And Pajama...I could make a list for you of right wing comments involving guns, but it would be far too long to post here, and you know it. Oh, and the fact that Sarah Palin has the GALL to use the term "blood libel" only shows her level of vitriol and lack of concern for how her words are taken by others. If you don't know the history of that term, look it up. For her to use those words, especially when discussing the attempted assassination of a woman who is Jewish, is beyond contempt.

You can't control what political supporters do - there are a few nut cases in every crowd.

But when political leaders start standing up and putting violent imagery against opponents in their speeches and on their websites, it's up to those who support them to put a stop to it. They need to remember that those nut cases are listening to them.

Ok So Liberal shows and comics are protected BUT a white comic that says @!$%# on stage gets blackballed.

So you are saying comics Never get accused of incitement

Lenny Bruce

Andrew Dice Clay

Sam Kennison

Are just a few names that were Jailed OR sued for their comedy.

I love your last line, I thought that was so funny because liberals use that argument all the time.

Clinton getting a hummer— Well Kennedy Had Marilyn

White Water- What about Watergate?

So what you are saying is that if you are liberal the rules do not apply BUT if you are a private citizen they do not!

So rape is funny? Murder? This was an obsessive person SO if he planted a bomb in Hillary's cooze you would blame South Park?

There's a big difference between targeting STATES and putting gun sights on INDIVIDUAL Congressmen, listing their names and posting "Commonsense Conservatives and Lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page."

http://radio.foxnews.com/2010/03/24/palin-puts-gun-sights-on-%E2%80%9Ctarget%E2%80%9D-map-urges-we-%E2%80%9Creload%E2%80%9D/

Anyone going through airport security with that map would have been arrested for suspicion of terrorism. It's called a "hit list".

I'm from the right and agree that the 'right' probably use the 'gun' talk more often then the left.

But its the 'left' that wants to take away guns period. Why?

It would be easier to impose whatever type of government, taxes, etc, if the 'people' didn't have a way to fight back against the armed forces of the government.

If the forefathers didn't have firearms to fight against the British armies, you and me wouldn't be here more then likely.

Benjamin Franklin is one of my favorite forefather. Here are some of his quotes:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."

"This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins."

"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself."

"...a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles...is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty and keep a government free."

"God grant that not only the love of liberty but a thorough knowledge of the rights of man may pervade all the nations of the earth, so that a philosopher may set his foot anywhere on its surface and say: This is my country."

So in ending, this is MY country, MY freedoms, MY rights, MY family, none of these are the government's.

Mark -

I never once said Palin or conservatives are to blame . . . NOT ONCE.

LEARN TO READ

All I said is that you can not compare a comic to a political figure, which is true. AND I said that Palin missed a golden opportunity to prove she is a leader, which is true. Instead of being the bigger person, she stooped to the level of her attackers.

Again . . . LEARN TO READ

@Thoughts from Cali -

Yep, hate those shows. Give me humor that makes you think (like Monty Python) any day over stupid humor like those shows.

To make light of something like rape helps to desensitize individuals to the act. No different than games like "Call of Duty" and those have been played by every young person that has been involved with school shootings. I am curious as to find out if Jared Loughner played similar games. These comics and shows you speak of have every bit of an influence to young minds as the politicians. Possibly more as they watch the shows on a weekly basis but how many pay attention to politicians?

You noted that The President said he was wrong in his choice of words. Has he done this each time as there are numerous references to inciteful phrases he as used? I would have more respect for him if he appologized then learned from the mistake and didn't utter such words again. Unfortunately he keeps making the statements, so how good is his apology?

America...I think that you will find that "most" liberals don't want to take away your guns. They just want to make sure that those guns don't get into the hands of someone like the Arizona shooter. There were so many signs that this man was unstable (he was kicked out of college, he was denied entry to the military, he had been contacted by law enforcement on more than one occasion). Couldn't any one or all of these incidents be noted in an electronic system that could be checked before a gun purchase? I don't want to take away guns from honest, hard-working, responsible citizens...I just want to make sure that someone like Jarod Laughner doesn't have easy access to them.

I am confused. Rhetoric, some argue, does not incite people ???

Really ??? People are NOT incited by Sara's latest rhetoric ?????

Or more precisely are they proposing that only the crazies are not affected by rhetoric ?

How do you logically explain that the vitriol you bemoan being aimed at Sara because of her comments does not apply to the unbalanced assassin ?

Only future wannabe assassins would profess such convoluted logic.

Can we try to resolve battles and arguments rather than trying to win them? Is there really a need to be "in your face"? I think that aggressive dominance assertion is the beginning of the thinking that, when distilled and distorted in the mind of Jared Loughlin, led to the shooting that's stirred up this renewed debate.

Yes, I see & hear angry & violent rhetoric come from leaders and followers on both sides of politics. I did not think the point of this discussion was to isolate any single faction as being to blame, rather to question whether the combative rhetoric prevalent in contemporary political discourse is endangering our society.

Logical arguments can be made to put down varied and opposing beliefs and opinions, depending on one's assumptions. These put-downs, dominance spats, and "us v. them" competitions don't seem to me to be helping our society. And an unhealthy mind has more opportunity to absorb, emulate and skew an "us v. them" mentality the more exposure there is to this combative philosophy. Jared Loughlin may have believed he was fighting fire with fire, taking the lack of consideration & humanization & respect that politicians seem to show each other in opposing groups as a whole (the disappointment of which may have been a source of his growingly distorted distrust of government), and showing the same blanket lack of consideration for government and thus government officials and political participants exhibited in his rampage.

I feel the way our politicians target each other is fostering societal illness. And an unhealthy social environment is not easy for its constituents to respond to positively, particularly for the ungrounded, unstable, unhinged.

Why the need to attack and insult each other? Perhaps persuasion and consideration to identify assumptions and ask individuals of why/how they got their assumptions would better serve to reach understanding and calm the civil war of rhetoric.

I sense some almost visceral responses to these arguments between factions within our government and population: rage and hopeless disappointment. Rage from members/supporters of warring factions, inciting insults and posturing, and disappointment from observers on both sides and from outside the fray feeding a hopeless prognosis for our society, cynicism, disgust, and lack of participation in larger society or government. These responses do not lend for positive action.

Can someone suggest another response? Can we question each other without trying to "win" the argument? Can we choose the best defense not to be a strong offense, but an honest exploration of validity of each other's assumptions and willingness to be proven wrong or revise our own assumptions and conclusions? It seems to me when one side is trying simply to win, to be put above an opposing group or individual by putting the other down, there is no winner.

With the present war of rhetoric playing out in our government, I feel like we are all losing. Am I naive to feel that the best counter-attack a side can have is to humbly self-assess, state its own assumptions of argument, what it sees of the other's point of view, ask questions to gain understanding/clarification of the other's reasoning and reasons to adopt its assumptions, and be willing to concede ground? Show respect for your enemies? That behavior most gains my respect far more than one succeeding to beat down the opposition, whatever side it comes from, whether or not I agree.

ONCE MORE, 'INCITING to VIOLENCE or SEDITION' is an On the Books CRIME in this Country and PALIN and Glen Beck and Limbaugh are ALL GUILTY of same and the only reason there hasn't been Indictments is because they are Protected by other Right Wingers in our Congress!

How would Sarah plain react if someone put crosshairs over her house? How would her rabid followers react? That's the point and she refuses to acknowledge it.

Oh, haven't you heard? Those weren't "crosshairs", those were surveyor's symbols! One of her spokeperson's said so...after the shootings in Tucson.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/palin-staffer-nothing-irrespon.html

OK, I read the article. Maybe they are intended as bulls-eyes! Reference the last paragraph, where they refer you to an official U.S.G.S. map of topographical symbols...the surveyor's symbol is similar but not identical. And Palin herself called them bulls-eyes!

http://twitter.com/SarahPalinUSA/status/29677744457#

So don't give us that lame crap, Sarah. Admit what you did was wrong and apologize. Your bluster and continued rhetoric paints you as a hypocrite. Not only that, but you've done Glenn Beck proud by modifying history to fit your agenda.

You make me sick...

RealAmericansFirst, I don't see what your referring to. Two separate websites. One has a map of states with gun sites on them (could also be Celtic Crosses, but, we both know they are abstracted gun sites). Each site is associated with a name specifying that these are Democratics in states that voted Republican in 2008. It states that Republicans should try and win those states back. I don't think you would get a second look from TSA.

The second is a separate, Facebook site. "Commonsense Conservatives and Lovers of America: 'Don't Retreat, Instead Reload!!'". Not exactly a great statement if you are anti-firearm. However, hardly a call to go out and kill people. What you're post is, is a continuation to try and fabricate a connection between Palin and this tragic event. What's worse, your motivation is furthering your trivial political agenda at the expense of all who suffered through this event. As did the media: immeadiately below the headline when I first saw this story break, was another, smaller headline, referencing Guifford being on this map. Now, there was no direct accusation, but, why bring the map on that day if not to try and fabricate a connection?

OK, all you nut jobs, (said in humor). Isn't it our own personal responsibility to realize when and where political comments should be taken seriously? When someone puts a target on a district, shouldn't we have enough common sense to know that it is about a politician that is "targeted" to be DEFEATED, not killed? when someone calls for us to rearm, and reload, should mean that we are to take the fight to the ballot box? And when someone tries to kill someone because of his personal beliefs, should we jump to a conclusion that one person is responsible for him doing this heinous act, when she had no contact with him what so ever? And when she made these comments she said herself this is NOT a call to arms.

This type of political rhetoric has been going on for hundreds of years. They use to settle conflicts with duels, Tameny hall, they killed their opponents, Bush was hung in effigy by the democratic left during rallies. Bush was called a Nazi, and he should be killed by the same means that Hitlers henchmen were when they were brought to trial. Does any of this sound familiar, or are we just blaming the right, right now? Democratic leaders have also used hate speech, and called for bad things to happen to their opponents also. to act like this only happens to the left, by the right, is not only wrong, but hypocritical also.

I do agree the rhetoric needs to be toned down, but lets put the blame where it belongs. On the nut jobs who decide to take these people seriously. not the pundits, and political figures that spew such filth. I have yet to hear one of you condemn Micheal Moore for things he has said, or Ganine Garafalo(sp.)! Yet you go out and pay money to let Micheal Moore continue his hate, and spew his brand of lies. Given, that is his opinion, and he has every right to state that opinion.

Removal or hindering the 1st or 2nd amendment is not the answer. where do we stop when we limit people right to free speech? do we open the innocent up to crime when we limit the innocent the right to defend themselves? look at Chicago when they overturned the gun ban in that city. Violent crime shot up over 56%, when the ban was in effect. People will always have different opinions they feel strongly about, only when they take the law into their own hands and commit these heinous crimes are they then guilty of murder. Remember Hitler ordered the extermination of the Jews. Manson ordered the killing of those people. Palin did not. She might have used inflammatory words, but she did not put the gun into that guys hand or tell him to do it, and provide the means. This man had professed his hate for her years ahead of this act.

Now I know this will not get through to most of the people here. Some might look at it, and realize that both sides have done it for centuries, and that we should not take these people seriously. I sure don't take Palin seriously when she says this, and I sure don't take Micheal Moore seriously when he spews his filth. Lets look at how we raise our children instead. do we push our children away and not listen to them when we are busy, or do we take the time to listen to them, and spend time with them? Do we leave them to raise themselves, or do we take an active part in their lives? It is hard to raise kids these days, Lets not turn another generation loose, without the basic skills, and knowledge that we care and love them. This is our fault. I blame the boomer generation, because we were more interested in our time instead of what our kids were doing late friday and saturday night.

Two Words....... Palin Syndrome................

Henry II: "Will no one rid me of this meedlesome priest?"

Knights: "OK Henry, we killed him."

Henry II: "Thats not what I meant."

Almost 900 hundred years later nothing has changed much...

who said: bring Guns to knife fights, kicking ass, placing his boot on the throat of his opponent, republicans are our enemies, republicans can sit in the back... What a great uniter and leader!!! Barack Obama President of everyone. Ha.

I must have missed something--since when had Hitler and the Nazi's been defined as "liberal' when the political label "conservative" has historically always been attached to that political movement. Apparently I don't know what the "facts" are anymore- I haven't watch Fox news for over a decade!

pajamash -

Everyone has their own style, I find Monty Python incredibly stupid. Yes, I saw the black knight get his arm cut off and call it a "flesh wound" . . . then he had his legs chopped off and said something about biting kneecaps. I want those 5 minutes of my life back.

Personally, I find the way South Park makes fun of real life issues to be way more entertaining. But I also laugh at the most offensive humor out there . . . there more offensive the better. The big difference between these and politicians is that these shows DO NOT call anyone to take action. They do not tell people to go out and do this, or that. In fact, there are episodes where they make fun of people that do that exact same thing.

In fact, there was an episode where the media was doing a report on child abuse, and told parents that most abuse happens at home. The media told the parents to protect their children from themselves, so every parent listened to the media and sent their kids away. Then the smart children replied with the perfectly sarcastic, "I know our parents have done some stupid things in the past, but Jesus Christ."

Furthermore, studies have shown that violent video games do not create violent children. Actually, they act as a release for pent up anger . . . similar to punching a heavy bag at the gym, or taking a marital arts class. These studies support the fact that video games and TV shows are merely entertainment, nothing more.

Again, completely different from political speakers motivating people to take action. You can not compare the two. Now if you would like to compare Obama sound bytes to Palin, you have a better argument. But two wrongs don't make a right.

I definitely don't agree with everything Sarah Palin stands for. But the bottom line is that we are all responsible for the thoughts and actions we take. It has become to common place in this society to pass the blame onto others. We each have minds and thoughts and a cappable of making our own descissions and then acting on them or not acting on them. No one made that young man load the gun and pull the trigger. He did it all on his own. He had his own warped thought process that lead to his own warped actions.

This individual was disgusted with the government and with the actions of the government over the last two years shoving legislation down the throats of Americans that they clearly do not want is a perfect example of what makes a person go over the edge, not some BS rhetoric of politicians.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask:

Have any of you angry posters viewed the entire statement she made regarding the murders in Arizona?

The clip being circulated is just a very small and somewhat out of context clip of an elegant address. One in which she proclaims the promise of America and those of us who reside here. She takes a stand to defend the very process of civil public discussion and communication that the event at that Safeway exemplified.

She did not divide America between left and right she proclaimed our right and privilege to stand up for our own points of view through reasonable and rational debate.

Those of you coming onto a public forum without reasonable knowledge of a topic. Knowledge of the entire topic not just the soundbites seem so naive and simple.

I know that there are some at the left of left that are actually well educated and capable of using their computers to learn rather than just spout. I would ask that you view the entire address and then make your educated point of view known.

http://vimeo.com/18698532

For those of you who wish to read the text I am sure there is a location for that as well.

For those of you who will only listen to the short sound bite and make a determination from there, well there is nothing to say to those who will not evaluate a measure by a realistic merit.

The title of the address is:

"America's Enduring Strength"

Interestingly enough she was not talking about Red or Blue America, rather all of America.

I know how to read THANK YOU!

I find your post condescending and rude!

You have your opinions and I have mine.

Liberal always rely on insults and intellectual psyco-babble try to get their point across.

You responded with exactly what I was talking about. Accusation and insults instead of actual dialogue! So Typical!

Yea that Sarah Palin has family values and morals, she believes children should be raised by a mother and father. She believes in families doing things together. She dont believe in killing babies. She believes marrage is beween a man and a woman. She believes in people going out and getting an education and being the best they can be. She believes people should have choices and do want they want legally within the law ,with the least amout of government interference. She believes in the Constitution and that we are blessed to live in such a great nation. She believes in balancing the budget and living within your means not spending and borrowing the future of our children. Worst of all she believes in God. We need to lie and smear her as much as posible. How dare we ever let a person this evil be elected into a govenment position.

Your comments are inciting a person to now Kill Sarah Palin!

Frankly, the wrong politician was shot. But Palin is just too good for the Democrats right now.

So if anything happens to Sarah Palin I hope her familyand the media come after you for the comments you made!

You may have incited a person who hates Sarah Palin to kill her! You must be so proud!

Half-Term Palin is a joke. America's standards have sunk to an all time low when we consider someone who couldn't even answer simple 7th grade civic government questions from Katie Couric of all people! She may be fun to hang with, shoot'n wild game from an aircraft and all, but I prefer someone with brains to be doing our nation's business!

The majority of us are still suffering on-going wounds after 8 years of brainless Bush who states in his recent biography that his greatest disappointment while POTUS was not getting Social Security privatized!!! Are you kidding me? WMD anyone??? Imagine if that would have gone through before the Wall Street crash! What an imbecile.

Seriously, you can't make these people up, which is why they and their twisted political ideas are the greatest threat to our country. The Might Makes Right Party have been demonizing anyone threatening their ideology for years! I don't mind putting a name to their craziness! Take it like a man Palin!!!

To: Independent Thinker and others who blame Palin and the Right.

"she targets Gabby with violent symbols" For your information the "target" symbol you refer to was started by Democratic strategist Bob Beckel by his own admission. It is commonly used in political maps for areas where political parties plan to attempt to take back a seat.

"quoting Regan: "It's time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." Reagan's intent was to say that it's time for individual responsibility rather than blaming someone else for what they did or didn't do or said or didn't say. If you commit a crime you can't blame your parents for not buying you enough McDonalds burgers or a politician for what they said. You are responsible for the crime you commit. No one held a gun to your head.

Blaming others for their words as being a cause for the deaths and shootings in Tucson causes me to ask: If Abraham Lincoln is responsible for his own assassination? His words motivated John Wilkes Booth to shoot him. I don't think many (if any) would walk up to Mrs. Lincoln, if they could, and say Abe should have kept his mouth shut or at least not have said such incendiary things like "slaves should be free" and "the U.S. should be one country".

Many of you are talking as if the political map and the political comments were aimed specifically at Congresswoman Gifford personally. The closest to that was politically going after her seat in Congress. This is not the same as a personal attack on her. Quite unlike Congressman (now ex Congressman, but not when he said this) Paul Kanjorski (Democrat from Pennsylvania): quoted from the Scranton Times

“That Scott down there that’s running for governor of Florida,” Mr. Kanjorski said. “Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him [sic] and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he’s running for governor of Florida. He’s a millionaire and a billionaire. He’s no hero. He’s a damn crook. It’s just we don’t prosecute big crooks."

I don't even want to get into the discussion as to whether Kanjorski was the pot calling the kettle black. The point is, that the words of Kanjorski specifically targeted a specific individual and asked for a very specific act of violence against Mr. Scott. I would like to point out that there's a very big difference between language specifically asking for acts of violence against a particular person and general comments about politics (rhetoric or not). Comparing the two and equating them as both fiery rhetoric that should be stopped is like saying that having a conversation about what to do if there's a fire in the theater and yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater is the same.

The statements of people like Palin, Beck, O'Rielly and the Tea Party is pretty much the equivalent to having a discussion about what to do in the case of a fire in a crowded theater. The statement of then Congressman Kanjorski is the equivalent of yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. The former is part of political discourse and a part of our political process even if it is rhetoric. The latter is far more likely to get someone hurt.

No other name or subject that I can remember gets more posts than the name Palin. I believe the term "blood libel" was misused in this instance. I looked at a few possible definitions and I can't make anything fit. Still, I agree with the WSJ in that Palin and the tea party are more the target of the hatred than the source of it. Someone, somewhere, got the idea that Sarah is open game and I really don't care who it is. I despise the hate mongering that I see and read. You can always tell when you're dealing with a liberal. First, they call you a name; then, they spent the next 10 sentences explaining why you are what they called you. Thank God there's only about 19% of them in the country. As for Palin, she took all you gave so far and you made her a multi-millionaire. Nice job.

Follow --

You can always tell when you're dealing with a liberal. First, they call you a name; then, they spent the next 10 sentences explaining why you are what they called you.

That is called projection (when you do something and then project it on to someone else to turn the focus away from what you did), and it as useless and even more transparent than name calling.

@thoughts from Cali - "Furthermore, studies have shown that violent video games do not create violent children. Actually, they act as a release for pent up anger . . . similar to punching a heavy bag at the gym, or taking a marital arts class. These studies support the fact that video games and TV shows are merely entertainment, nothing more.

Again, completely different from political speakers motivating people to take action...."

I see - so what you seem to be saying is nothing influences young people except politicians. It is an interesting theory but I think you put too much faith in the role politicians play in our day to day lives. My children are aware of who the president is but probably could not go into a great deal of detail about him. They spend their time playing sports, spending time with their friends, playing games and watching some television. They don't have much contact with what politicians have to say except for a news bite here and there.

I find it Interesting that each of the students that have been involved in school shootings have played violent video games. The games didn't make them do it but the constant desensitization that comes from shooting lifelike Avatars, I submit, plays a part in these children not truly connecting with the acts they perform. The slow decay of their lives from being sucked into the gaming world also plays a significant role. I did a short search on the net and found research papers that support video games playing a part in the mental state of those that play the games. As with any topic the research being performed depends on who is paying for the research.

Maybe the shows don't "call people to action" but they do influence how individuals see their world. South Park, et al are fine for adults (it is proven that a young persons brain, speficially their sense of reason, does not fully develope until their mid 20's. Thus an adult can reason the content more readily than a child) but do you think it is appropriate for those under 16? I don't.

She incites violence.

I would like to point out that Palin's and the Tea Party's theories of "smaller government" also make it MUCH LESS LIKELY that nut-jobs like this WILL be locked up. What little funding there still is for mental health after Reagan took a hatchet to it is also in their gun-sights.

The real issue here is that we now know what kinds of things Palin reads--"blood libel" is a word that one would not hear any more outside of the most extreme of right-wing, evangelical Christian crusaders sites. That is why we are having to have it explained to us why this is such an absurd term for the context.

While, clearly, the speech was written by someone else (the whole thing is actually pretty interesting--but it does not do anything to take responsibility or to try and calm people down), that one term (which might have been inserted by Palin herself, as it appears in a section which doesn't really sound like the rest of the speech--it does not flow) is really, really telling.

If one listens closely to Palin, one can figure out what she is reading--and it explains why she couldn't answer the original question by Couric and considered it a "gotcha." It was a gotcha. If you could see the titles of publications that use words like "blood libel"--well, do a quick search for the term "blood libel" along with "Christian" and "god" and "America," and look for older postings--you'll find them soon enough.

I don't recommend reading them unless your hair is naturally straight and you are trying to make it curly. Still, I think that a quick read of these publications will give you a good feel for where Sarah's rhetoric is coming from.

Either Palin knew EXACTLY what she was saying when she said "blood libel" (in which case she's guilty of a whole new level of blood rhetoric) or she had NO CLUE of what she was saying. I'm not sure which one is scarier.

And, no, American for Israel, the 'left' DOESN'T want "to take away guns period." We want gun control, so that nut cases aren't carrying assault weapons. It works - just look at the rate of gun violence in the US vs. Canada:

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):

Homicide
Suicide
Other (inc Accident)

USA (2001)
3.98
5.92
0.36

Italy (1997)
0.81
1.1
0.07

Switzerland (1998)
0.50
5.8
0.10

Canada (2002)
0.4
2.00.04

Finland (2003)
0.35
4.45
0.10

Australia (2001)
0.24
1.34
0.10

France (2001)
0.21
3.4
0.49

England/Wales (2002)
0.15
0.2
0.03

Scotland (2002)
0.06
0.2
0.02

Japan (2002)br>0.02
0.04
0

Crosshairs = Sara Palin She doesn’t like politicians she puts them in the crosshairs HER Political Signature.

Now she says that the crosshairs were just surveyors’ sights. Wink, wink, Idiotic on the face of it and that makes her a defensive liar. “Don’t retreat reload”, quote Sara Palin

Sara Palin puts out a video showing her shooting a Moose through a telescopic sight. My how big and brave she is nothing more than a Snuff Film

And even now she threatens no peace if this is made political. Sounds like another Sara threat of violence

History will forever include an account of how Gabrielle Gifford was put in the Cross hairs of Sara Palin and how Palin encouraged the juxtaposition of guns at political events.

Sara as long as you live you will forever be known as Crosshair Sara. Sara Palin you are finished politically you will never be elected to anything not president, not governor you quit that. You have lost any credibility with anyone other than the gun nuts and the radical right as there is no American whether Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, who can honestly say that printing such a negligently scatterbrained bull's eye map was okay; perhaps in 1942 Nazi Germany, but not in present day America. Gosh Darn It!

I think it is amazing how this woman always makes everything about her. She is one of the most self-centered people on the planet. People have died and have been hurt, and all she cares about is herself. Must be worried about losing some of her following. We can only hope.

Hey L8RG8R

Obviously I have to spell this out to you

What American whether Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, who can honestly say that printing such a negligently scatterbrained bull's eye map was okay; perhaps in 1942 Nazi Germany, but not in present day America. Gosh Darn It!

witchking, you're reading more into it than there is because you want to. Taken holistically, it is clearly a map of seats that are "targeted" for reclaiming in the next election. Nothing more. It even says so on the big print at the bottom. Of course, if you don't read and just look at the pictures, you could probably find a way to derive that this was a call to shoot those elected officials. But, you would probably need to be disassociated from reality and probably suffering from delusions and paranoia to do so.

I am wondering who wrote the Palin speech.

She played the victim role, she pulled the 'others did it too' and she couldn't get any lower she had to go with the 'blood libel'.

I don't think she is even aware at this time that her words do matter. As long as she can count her money, she is happy.

If you go over all her speeches and public appearances almost all of them has mentions of gun use and there are always something derogatory or hateful said about a group or someone. Yet, if anyone says anything in response, THEY are the hateful one , not her. Such an angel.

The term blood libel was used incorrectly by former Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, Glenn Reynolds and other conservative commentators in January 2011, in the aftermath of the 2011 Tucson shootings.^[1] Another conservative commentator, Jonah Goldberg, expressed his opinion in his blog that he was "not sure" Sarah Palin or Glenn Reynolds "intended to redefine the phrase, or that they should have".^[2] The phrase is highly offensive to Jewish people because, used correctly, blood libel refers to the utterly false accusation that Jews use the blood of murdered Christian children for Passover matzohs.

Palin's use of blood libel had sparked controversy partly because Palin is not Jewish, and the target of the shooting, U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) is Jewish.[

The Left Should Keep Quiet.....

President Obama-"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun."

■ “I’m waiting for the day when I pick it up, pick up a newspaper or click on the Internet and find out he’s choked to death on his own throat fat or a great big wad of saliva or something, you know, whatever. Go away, Rush, you make me sick!” — Left-wing radio host Mike Malloy on the January 4, 2010 Mike Malloy Show, talking about Rush Limbaugh going to the hospital after suffering chest pains.

■ MSNBC’s Chris Matthews in 2009 fantasized about the death of Rush Limbaugh: “Somebody’s going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he’s going to explode like a giant blimp”

■ Author/humorist P.J. O’Rourke: “It’s the twilight of the radio loud-mouth, you know? I knew it from the moment the fat guy-”
Host Bill Maher: “You mean Rush Limbaugh and Sean-”
O’Rourke: “-from the moment the fat guy refused to share his drugs....”
Maher: “You mean the OxyContin that he was on?...Why couldn’t he have croaked from it instead of Heath Ledger?” — HBO’s Real Time with Bill Maher, February 8, 2008.

■ MSNBC’s Amy Robach in 2006 mildly wondered if “Death of a President” movie depicting the imagined assassination of President Bush was “poor taste or, as some say, thought-provoking?”

■ On his radio show in 2009, Ed Schultz wished for Dick Cheney’s death: “He is an enemy of the country, in my opinion, Dick Cheney is, he is an enemy of the country … Lord, take him to the Promised Land, will you?”

■ Also on his radio show, in 2010, Schultz shouted: “Dick Cheney’s heart’s a political football. We ought to rip it out and kick it around and stuff it back in him!”

■ Then-Air America host Montel Williams in 2009 urged Congresswoman Michele Bachmann to kill herself: “Slit your wrist! Go ahead! I mean, you know, why not? I mean, if you want to – or, you know, do us all a better thing. Move that knife up about two feet. I mean, start right at the collarbone.”

■ Writing on the Huffington Post in 2007, radio host Charles Karel Bouley mocked: “I hear about Tony Snow and I say to myself, well, stand up every day, lie to the American people at the behest of your dictator-esque boss and well, how could a cancer NOT grow in you? Work for Fox News, spinning the truth in to a billion knots and how can your gut not rot?”

■ “I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.” — Host Bill Maher on his HBO show Real Time, March 2, 2007, discussing how a few commenters at a left-wing blog were upset that an attempt to kill Vice President Cheney in Afghanistan had failed.

■ “Earlier today, a rental truck carried a half a million ballots from Palm Beach to the Florida Supreme Court there in Tallahassee. CNN had live helicopter coverage from the truck making its way up the Florida highway, and for a few brief moments, America held the hope that O.J. Simpson had murdered Katherine Harris.” — Bill Maher on ABC’s Politically Incorrect, November 30, 2000.

■ Host Tina Gulland: “I don’t think I have any Jesse Helms defenders here. Nina?”
NPR’s Nina Totenberg: “Not me. I think he ought to be worried about what’s going on in the Good Lord’s mind, because if there is retributive justice, he’ll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it.” — Exchange on the July 8, 1995 Inside Washington, after Helms said the government spends too much on AIDS.

■ “I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease....He is an absolutely reprehensible person.” — USA Today columnist and Pacifica Radio talk show host Julianne Malveaux on Justice Clarence Thomas, November 4, 1994 PBS To the Contrary.

L8RG8R -- your anger and hatred of anyone who believes different than you is eating you up. Relax. We aren't out to get you.

Now that you've calmed down...the word is spelled hypocrites.

After reading comments like this

DataLink

Funny how the party of "Personal Responsibility" lacks personal responsibility...

• 173

• !

#1.16 - Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:47 AM EST

I decided to use a very CALM comment by any Lib on this thread. How is it the Left can lable themselves the "Peace and freedom, Party of Love" and still post the most venemous and vile comments to be had, not just on this thread, but ALL of them.
To hear them talk, everyone is evil, except them, because they know what is "right" for the entire Human race. However, here on the Newsvine, we see their true colors and mindset. So sad they must be so two faced, because, at least the Right stands by what they say.

Cursing, name calling, and lableing start now, Liberal Children. Go ahead and start, so that the whole thread can see you prove me right once again.

Palin has worked very hard to earn everyone's disgust. She has won it fair and square. Congratulations Sarah

Truth...if you really want to get into a war of listing hateful comments made by political pundits, your side will lose and you know it. What's troubling is that, rather than admit that the discourse has gone downhill on both sides, you are trying to excuse your side from doing it by pointing out that the other side does it too. Can't we just admit that there has been heated and hyperbolic rhetoric shouted by both sides and attempt to make it better, rather than using the childish "Well, he did it too" approach?

Ray...you appear to only see what you want to see. The vitriol is clearly coming from both sides of the aisle on this vine. Apparently, most of us have learned nothing from this tragedy.

This forum is 180 degrees from the Fox forums........I must conclude the Liberal mind is a genetic aberration...........

Reading some of these comments on here after this morning, what I actually find surreal as well as downright "terrifying" is having to come to grips with the "reality" that even in light of the "massacre" over the weekend (and Mrs. Palin's absurdly obvious "desperate" attempts at implementing "denial and damage control for all my "mindless" dummies" counter-measures ever since it happened) that this borderline "sociopath" in fact actually is "still" the "go to" person that all these ultra-right wing "morons" would gladly like to put in the "White House" right along with her "Administration"-as in those with a strict adherence to propagating "ignorance" in concert with taking ZERO accountability for their actions.

...And "this" woman represents the paranoid, irresponsible and obscenely "self-righteous" zealot mentality some of you idiots actually would just "love" to put in a position where she'd have access to Nuclear launch codes.

That actually makes "you" scarier than she is...

Cheers

I think it's stupid the way people are turning this into a political battle. It started with the Sheriff and all I can think about is the 9 year old girl who was killed. It seems immature to blame Palin or Rush. This individual was crazy who killed these people, not political.

Another Palin supporter:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20011219-504083.html

The "first" act of violence during the past couple years of hostile "politicing" by the right was when the young woman was thrown to the ground and had her head and shoulders stomped on by three men - one employeed by the candidate in Alaska! (sorry, can no longer remember his name - he lost) - Miller!

The second act was just inside from the area where the young woman was stomped on - when the candidate's "security guards" broke several laws by forcefully restraining - even handcuffing - a journalist who was at the "public event" where the candidate was speaking.

I posted then....that it was only a matter of time before even more violence broke out in our country!! Little did I know how soon and how deadly the next action would be!

Palin would serve herself and our country best if she would just stop talking in public! Her use of the "blood libel" only served to incite more anger! Her next statement will most likely be how "she" is not responsible for the very statement she just made regarding "blood libel"!! To top everything off, why would Palin chose THIS day - when we should be mourning for those that died and showing respect for their families as they bury their dead.....Palin decides to speak up and try to make this day all about her!!

Unreal, simply unreal!!

Give it up and stay quiet - at least until the families of those murdered can bury and mourn their loved ones!! The last place the political and media coverage should be at the moment is on Sarah Palin!! Just shut-up....

Mrs. Palin continues to show her complete lack of intellect and sensitivity even in today's comments. Her use of the term "Blood Libel" is totally inappropriate, even though in all likelihood, she didn't even understand what it means. But that's typical of her. Her comments too about political debate being settled by duels by early Americans, had no place in comments about a shooting of a congresswoman and others at a political event. If her statement would have been offhand in an interview, you might be able to make allowances for being thoughtless in her choice of words, however, this was a prepared statement! There are just so many ways her comments were insensitive and inappropriate.

This is a simple minded woman who proves it everyday. She has no place in the public arena and certainly no place in government office.

To use her own distorted language, she should immediately "refudiate" her own remarks today!

What is your problem Is she too smart, too sexy, too beautiful, too full of knowlege or is it that she is a women.

It is tragic that so many people lost their lives in this crime and that Congress woman Giffords was wounded. I pray for all of these victims. There is however no justification in this for more gun control laws or banning guns or magazines. There is justification in this for more guns in society. The answer to violence and vile political beliefs is more guns, in the hands of law abiding citizens. There is also justification in this for congressmen and senators to carry guns as well to protect themselves. This even includes those congress members who are certain to introduce more evil gun control legislation as well. To those who mention that the founding fathers could not imagine in their time the weapons of today, remember the second amendment was intended as an individual civil right designed to maintain a balance of power between the governed and the government. In this day and age where liberalism is becoming more powerful than ever, this is more important than ever.

This lunatc made up his mind to murder and shoot these innocent people. Only a MORON would assume that there is a link between any political party and their rhetoric..If my statement offends you then you fall in the capitalized mental category .

Conservatives scoff at attempted linkage to shooting

"Don't retreat, reload!"

- Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska

"If this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies."

- Sharron Angle, former member of the Nevada State Assembly

"If ballots don't work, bullets will."

- Joyce Kaufman, Radio host, Tea Party activist

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Currently serving United States Congresswoman from Minnesota, paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson

These comments speak for themselves.

The politicians and political commentators who did not use images or the political rhetoric that is being questioned, were not accused of fueling a fire, were they? No, because they were trying to express their positions in an adult fashion; rather that trying to grab attention, with questionable tactics like placing other politicians in the crosshairs like targets. If you want to act or speak foolishly, do not act outraged when it is pointed out! With any right, like freedom of speech, comes responsibility!

Funny, doesn't it seem a little odd that the Pima County Sheriff came out almost immediately to blame conservative talk for the shooting? The same sheriff whose office had long known of the shooters behavioral problems & had also known of his previous threats on others. A shooter whose mother is also a Pima Co./ Tuscon municipal employee. Now this just COULDN'T be another case of law enforcement having turned a "Blind Eye" towards a Possible offender all this time just because they're related to a sister municipal "Friend", could it??? Nah, that would NEVER happen !!!

Methinks the Sheriff is trying to cover his a$$ by deflecting attention from his negligence.

Extreme Right -

What possible need is there for the citizens who only carries a weapon to "protect" himself and his family or simply to take advantage of his "right" as stated in the Constitution, for a magazine that holds 32 rounds instead of 12?!? That is the change that is being proposed!

Of the six dead and 14 injured......how many of those lives would have been spared if the killer had to pause to "reload" after the 12th shot???

Emily -

The ONLY thing you stated in your question that has anything to do with Paliln's ability to hold any elected office or to be taken seriously by just about anyone is "...full of knowledge". It is not only her extremely low level of intelligence (knowledge) but, what now appears to be a total lack of comon sense - that will cause her to simply fall back and disappear into the wall coverings!

Her days of ranting and speaking and making the big bucks for her appearances are rapidly coming to an abrupt end.....due to the acts and words of no one else except herself!!

Liberals here are just so narrow minded. You get on one thing and will not let it go. Both sides have participated in this rhetoric for centuries, has anyone forgot how people went after Bush?, Cheny? Bush sr.? how about Reagan? How about Clinton? or Carter? or Kennedy? If someone doesn't fit your idea of what is right or wrong, then they are slammed. Now that's not to say the right hasn't done it either. BOTH SIDES HAVE DONE IT SINCE THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR!!!! Our congressmen used to solve division by duels.

Palins video, if any of you watched it, and didn't turn it off because of your extreme hate for the woman, was about 10% her being attacked, and blamed for this tragedy, and 90% about this country, and how things are decided.

Blood Libel, where it came from I can't tell you, but it was used a lot by Christians blaming the Jews for Christs death. They were accused of having Blood on their hands because they supposedly helped kill Christ. Though, this is a false accusation made by Christians in the past. Some of you might be able to explain better when and where it first came about, but this is what I was taught, and where I first heard it used. If you got out of your own narrow point of view, and actually listened to people, Palins use of it is spot on. She is being blamed for the bloodshed that has occurred, with out any proof what so ever of this guy being swayed by what she said. In fact proof is coming out to the contrary.

You claim this rhetoric is harmful and dividing, yet you spew the same hate like the faucet is broke. Talking about hypocritical. But, I guess you don't count since you aren't on TV, and don't have a bull horn. Really? what do you think this blog is. It's your version of a bull horn. Yet we are not trying to shut you up, or blame you when things happen. Well, most aren't lol. When a nut gets it in his mind he wants to hurt someone he picks an easy and accessible target, and goes after them. all the hate he needs is already in his mind. No one needs to spur him on, and if he can't buy a gun legally, he will find one. banning thirty round clips won't stop him, unless we can go back in time and prevent them from being produced. writing laws to shut those up you think are speaking violence won't help, because most nuts don't need someone else to spur them on. the Hate is already there.

but, then again this is my fault. I shouldn't have expected anything different, since this site is part of MSNBC. one of the most left leaning liberal channels out there. I sat down today and watched MSNBC most of the day. Only Dylan Ratigan can be even close to being called open minded, and interviewing republicans. All the rest had 99% democrats, and most were continuing the same vile accusations that are being thrown out on here. At least FOX has a few that actually listen to the opposing views. But, none of you will admit this either, since this is all about Palin and the horrible right wing conspiracy.

Tyler - I agree that Hitler comparisons are far too facile and do nothing really to point to the real iniquity of Palin and her ilk. BUT there is a certain validity in comparing the US ultra-Right of today with the events that lead to the rise of the Nazis in Germany during the late 1920s and 1930s. This woman does not have a moustache but she sure as hell does sell herself with images that have little or nothing to do with her acumen - she knows sex sells and seems to think that flaunting herself will make people overlook the message she is peddling. The comparison with Hitler also fails on another grounds - she did listen to her advisors and get the map taken down as fast as she could once even she must have realised it was provocative of actions that American politics can do without. Hitler simply didn't care - but then it was a different age. However you cut it the messages she is peddling smack of right wing revolution, violence and civil war - is that where the US wants to go?

Apologies for what looks like a double posting - posted under 1 above and somehow duplicated here - not intended

Unfortunately, rhetoric encourages people to kill or do other horrible things. Therefore, each of us should speak carefully with due thought of how our speech may influence another person.

The left will always blame the right for violence, while ignoring PITA, ELF, SLA, etc.

Let then stew in their own stew.

They are still trying to forget about their friend, the Unibomber.

sounds true.

Your comment is very true, but people who have a public forum need to be careful in how they dipict other both in word and pictures. Indicating people on a map useing the picture of a gun scope is irresponsible and can be inflamatory to thozse misguided. And no, in answer to the above question, Sara Palin should zstay in Alask and not run for office of any kind including the presidency.

What none of you Sarah supporters never got was she never had any intention for running for anything it was all about the money guys - and keeping herself at the fore front meant more cash - this woman decided long ago she couldn't win anything, but keeping her face their she could reap the benefits - CASH BOYS AND GIRLS - look at her grabbing at the Academy Awards grabbing the goodies - daughter on Dancing - kept her face there - money guys - she could not run for dog catcher and she knowa it but the money - yes Sister Sarah today you blew it with alienating the Jewish Community Sister Sarah you have been out of your depth now hang it up and go home - you are irrelevant!

Ignorance and narcissism is quite a combination you got going on, Sarah.

a fact

i did not find her comments offensive. i thought that Sarah Palin's comments were spot on. why isn't there another optoin in the poll for those who were not offended by her comments. msn is using this tragedy to create a "loaded poll" in which the only option to comment is negetive.

I just got on Newsvine, and see that all of the collapsed comments are anti-palin. LOL, she must have people on newsvine to do just that, while she gets her nose powdered for her next episode.

Please, will someone enlighten me on ANY viable platform that Palin has come up with? Thank you, I thought not. Her only platform is inciting violence and hatred while she is busy with her cable channel shows, and her look at me attitude. She may have had no influence at all on the nutjob in Arizona, but do NOT tell me she doesn't incite other nutjobs to load thier Wal Mart guns and do the very same thing. This has NOTHING to do with right or left. It has everything to do with representing with class and diplomacy. I am a Democrat. I would love to see Condoleeza Rice run for president, she is light years ahead of Palin in intelligence, class and ability. Palin is, always has been, and always will be nothing but reality show fodder.

she is nothing but a moron. she is the typical clueless soccer mom. keep your thoughts behind closed doors so the world wont recognize the idiot u is

Salem...no they have not all been collapsed. Some that were collapsed, some were just over the top left wing rhetoric that the President spoke against last evening.

As for offering up an opportunity to address a question and shutting it down in the same statement. Gotta say that really is not very empathetic or the least bit open minded of you.

The telling aspect of any speech is if the premise of the address hit home with the base.

Those of us who can view Palin with objectivity would say that she did well on her overall address toward the tragic events in Arizona. Of course we look past the sound bites that the far left will decry as the meat of her address.

Juxtapose the Presidents Memorial address. Will his base embrase his call for empathy and a more thoughtful public debate...Well only his base can tell. We will see with the news cycle.

As for your challenge.

Drill baby drill, Reduce America's dependence on foreign oil. I totally agree.

Her stance on abortion as a political agenda. I disagree.

Her stance on First and Second Amendment rights...It is the American promise.

Her right to self-defense of herself and her family..Again, I have to stand on the side of our constitution. If someone attacks me verbally I will respond verbally. If someone attempts to break into my home they will find me standing with a shotgun locked and loaded. I will always stand between my children and danger.

Her belief that all Americans offer promise and responsibility to themselves, their families and their community. Again I agree. Not a difficult prospect to believe of the human spirit with the ability of self-determination.

Her faith. I am also a Christian, I believe that in America each individual has the freedom to pronounce their beliefs. Where I part with some of her rhetoric is that means "all" Americans not just Christian.

Do I believe that our Country was founded on Christian beliefs...Yes I do. I also believe that one of those Christian Principles, in some regions, was to accept the fact that others may or may not share the same belief system and as long as one is not restrictive of the other it is totally and acceptably reasonable to co-exist.

To be clear...If Sarah Palin were to enter the next Presidential race I doubt she would receive my vote. I would prefer she have a bit more experience in Federal Government directly. I would not be opposed to her being appointed to a Federal Position by this or the next POTUS.

Palin is the Peter Principle realized in that she has reached her level of incompetence (actually she was there some time ago.) I am an independent, so don't tag me as being politically motivated. Frankly, I think Palin is too ignorant to realized what "blood libel" actually represents. But, to go on for 8 minutes and fail to mention a single victim is reprehensible.

Deranged people with legally purchased weapons kill people.

Both sides seem culpable as far as rhetoric going over the top. I recall Hillary Clinton claiming "dissent is a form of patriotism" during the Bush years. It was quickly echoed throughout democratic campaigns - but evolved as an excuse to be insulting rather than objective discourse. The same people who thought that was cute - seem to offer a different view now.

Read the REAL reason this sick man killed. Not the lefts lies and lies and lies and lies and lies... The truth will set you free.

Hmmm, seems to me that "people with guns kill people". Patriots with slogans and guns kill people also.

txmom32, nice posting. Must state though, that most of what Sarah platformed wasn't her platform. It was merely repeated by her through her speechwriters. I am not sure she has much of a platform that is 'hers'. Perhaps the shotgun between her family and danger, is hers. But I believe in that too. The right to bare arms comes also with the responsibility to do so competently and with reserve and knowledge of the outcome. I once heard it said that many of the people that had an abortion were overcome with grief, because they didn't realize at the time that their actions were killing a baby. Same as when you point a weapon at someone, you need to know that the expected outcome of that action is that someone is going to die.

I stated it earlier and will repeat it again here, even if she runs in the Primaries, she is not going to be the only candidate that the GOP will have running, if she is even 'tapped' to run.

As usual the left wingnuts are out in full force wearing their blinders. What Palin said is a fact and the lefties were trying to assign blame to the right. The right, however has finally come out of a decades old stupor and now answers such rediculous accusations. The left is peeing and moaning because a tactic that has been effective in the past is now rendered useless and in many cases produces the opposite of the desired effect. The desired effect in this case is to silense the conservative voice.

We have a right to speak too. And, there are more of us than there are of you.

Skip Murray

Patriots with slogans and guns kill people also.

You Mean like Lee Harvey Oswald or abortionists?

Guns, Guns, and more Guns... Palin's personal phallus symbol. She can’t help herself, there is always some reference to guns. Even in her last rant she spoke of people dueling with guns. She's a nut!

"You Mean like Lee Harvey Oswald or abortionists?"

Or the murderers of abortionists? The point is, the divisive and irrationally opinionated hate mongering that is rampant throughout the media by commentators of all political persuasions is tearing this country apart. At a time when this country more than ever needs to come together in the spirit of compromise and common goals, these media hate-machines are pushing people further apart with their spiteful rhetoric. If our leaders on both sides of the aisle don't denounce them, and publicly separate themselves from them, we can only expect more violence similar to the tragedy we have just witnessed. This is, therefore, not a conflict between Liberals and Conservatives or Democrats and Republicans, this is a struggle between all Americans and the hateful bags of wind that are profiting from our differences. Let's be better than that.

Nukes don't kill people, people kill people

Sailcat, What about the pro-life pawn that 'bought into' all the hate speechs at their rallies against the Pro-Choice Dr. in AZ that he then assassinated the dr. The Pro-life group never accepted the responsibilities for his actions, either. He was just a 'nut case' that over-dramatized the affects of the rallies and speeches. It was claimed, after-all, "there are thousands of Pro-lifers that attend the same speeches and rallies and they didn't go out and shoot any doctors." Well, actually it has happened several times, so that is not entirely true. What's really crazy, though not entirely related, he was a Republican voter.

Just not sure what your tie-in with abortionists and Lee Harvey Oswald have to do with this conversation. Lee Oswald was accused of the murder of JFK, but it has been 'proven' that he could not have fired that fatal bullet. Not from where they say he was. But that is a whole other conversation. (can of worms.)

I can not disagree with the main point of your statement, however, it is my opinion that by saying "This country needs to come together" you mean that the conservatives need to give away some of their core beliefs for the good of the whole once again. I think not. When will it be time for the left to give in and compromise? Where was this demand for fair play and compromise when 70% of the nation rejected Obamacare?

I am saying that, without the people and our elected officials being prepared to compromise, this country will fall apart. As Americans, our "core beliefs" are outlined in the Constitution, and hot button issues such as abortion, health care, or gun control must not be allowed to divide the country into angry, confrontational camps. If we allow this to happen, we will see the "Balkanization" of the United States and this country will ultimately be defeated, not by another country, but by our own unwillingness to cooperate. As I said before, we are better than that.

bluecollar,

There should definitely be compromise without the release of core values. if I stand on one side of the room, and you on the other, and neither is willing to take even just a little baby step forward, then this country goes nowhere and we will never benefit from a cohesive government. We will stay status quo. Think of it as a marriage. Your spouse wants something and you want something totally different. Do you ever sit and rationally discuss a compromise or solution?

I wonder which talk show host, which news organization, and which former governor from a distant state was responsible for John Hinckley's shooting of President Ronald Reagan in Washington, D.C., in 1981. Or maybe Hinckley's movie idol, Jodie Foster, was responsible. Or maybe Martin Scorcese, the director of the movie "Taxi Driver" (which Jodie Foster appeared in and Hinckley obsessed with), is responsible.

I'm still trying to determine who is culpable for that assassination attempt. Maybe someone from the left-wing knows who to blame.

Voting for America...Thank you for a civil post.

I personally think she is very vested in her points of view. I think she has a deep respect for the constitution, personal liberties, her beliefs in faith and responsibility. I have a great deal of respect for her and yes I agree with you, if she chooses to run for 2012, she will not be the only GOP candidate in the Primaries. I would be very surprised if she were to get beyond that for 2012.

As for your point with pointing a gun at a human being in self-defense.

One very cold winters evening, when I was young and living in an apartment, my mother was visiting. We were in the kitchen making dinner when the knob to the front door started to rattle. By the time I got to the door I saw a man charging toward it as if he thought he could break it in yelling some girls name. After the hit, I yelled through the door that he had the wrong person. He hit it again. I remember how cold it was because I had fortunately, taken the plants off of my patio or very possibly one would have come through the window next to the door. While I looked out the peep hole I noticed that the man was sweating profusely. I don't know if he had just run a mile or if he was high but I did know that there was nothing I could do to prevent him from getting in my door. I ran to my bedroom and got my pistol, sent my mom to the back of the apartment to call 911. I sat on my sofa and kept yelling we have called the police and if he came in I would shoot him. This is true. I would have shot him if he had gotten through the door. At some point he stopped slamming his body against the door and never tried to come through the window. Shortly after he left the police came to the door. They had actually passed the man in the driveway to the apartments. Instead of stopping him they came to the apartment. After that they did not locate him and shortly after that I went to another unit. I would have absolutely taken the mans life before I would have stood still to allow him to hurt me or my mother in some lunatic rage. Would I have felt consequences for that action? Of course human life is sacred. Would I have taken a beating from a deranged stranger....No I am a human life.

Given the same circumstances today with the responsibility to protect three children in my home. I might have very well shot through the door to prevent even the possibility of harm coming to my babies. Yes again there are consequences. Actions of any nature require consequences...good and bad.

Rhonda,

I would say none of the above. Hinckley was a mentally unstable person, and was deemed so by the court. He allegedly attempted the assassination in order to impress Jodie foster, after becoming enamoured with herafter watching Taxi Driver, but I am pretty sure the movie isn't to blame either. He was completely delusional, and wrote of "pretend" girlfriends. He is to take the blame for his actions as John Loughner is to take the blame for his. Nobody else, just the person committing the act.

Not every murderer is a acting out of a misplaced sense of "holy duty" when he or she shoots a public servant, but the nonsense being vomited froth from the media is making these tragic events more likely. This sort of shameless behavior needs to come to a halt for everyone's benefit.

And to reply to VotingForAmerica's question, "Just not sure what your tie-in with abortionists and Lee Harvey Oswald have to do with this conversation," I was responding to a statement made in a prior post.

luvmy2boys:

Maybe you didn't recognize the sarcasm in my previous comment.

I agree with you 100%...John Hinckley ALONE was responsible for his atempted assassination of President Reagan, just as Jared Lee Loughner ALONE was responsible for the killing spree in Arizona.

According to his friends, Loughner never even listened to radio talk-shows or watched much TV, and he wasn't interested in Sarah Palin or her political opinions. So, anyone shifting the responsibility for Loughner's crime onto a radio talk-show host, a news organization, or a former governor from a distant state is either intellectually dishonest or must be afflicted with a Sesame Street mentality!

I didn't....a little slow today. ;)

AmericanFirst -

dissent....."difference of opinion" - "towithhold assent" - "a justice's nonconcurrence with a decision of the majority"

This is how Webster's Dictionary defines the words of Hillary Clinton.

Your point....??!?

It was well after and in response to the lynch mob on the left who was using disgusting accusatory rhetoric aimed unfairly at Palin that she used the term "blood libel". So many are trying to say that term is what started the rhetoric???. Absolutely FALSE.

Russell, that bwas not "hateful." I've seen much more hateful speech, usually leveled at democrats by uptight conservatives.

Russell, that was not hateful. That was a pretty accurate asessment of Palin: shameless, narcissistic, psychopath. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks, Judy.

Yes, Giffords is Jewish- so what is your point?

While calling someone a psychopath is certainly demonizing language, it is a far cry from saying you want to kill someone (Glenn Beck), kill the Democrats (Rush Limbaugh), use 2nd Amendment remedies (Sharron Angle). In fact, one would say these comments are NOT rhetoric at all, but rather inciting violence in the clearest of language. Rhetoric is usually in the realm of metaphor. Learn the difference.

, you just called Palin a "shameless, narcissistic, psychopath", ummm, if I am not mistaken, and of course I am not, that is as HATEFUL, as you can get.

Yes you are mistaken

The Russell is not a politician, nor aiming to be one. This is the point. Russell does not sway public opinion. Palin does, therefore her responsibility to moderate her language, is greater. Imagine her as a President. God forbid. She would lead us into atrocities, given her opinions and her words. Democratic leaders do NOT arouse violent feelings. Show me ONE example that they have. Just ONE.

There is no denying a hypocritical statement. What dont blame me and Russell don't seem to understand is there is a difference between calling someone name, being against their point of view, even having a heated discussion and saying now go kill someone. The country we have been living with has had the right calling for an armed response for at least the last two years (longer if you have listed to rush). There is a difference between calling someone a psychopath, a lib a narcissist, unwashed, a liar and saying I am going to shoot you.

And Russell you compared judy with the killer because she doesn't agree with you. You seem to think all he did was call those people names. Or that its ok to say because she doesn't like sarah she's some kind of a killer. Sounds like you have no respect for the people killed that day.

Right on judy, when I saw that "blood libel" thing, I thought what a putz - to have the big brass ones to apply a term to yourself that has been used as an excuse by christians to slaughter Jews by the thousands and then by the millions is beyond belief. She really does have an ego as twisted and as bloated as Hitler's (he twisted that myth in the same way too, justifying German persecution complexes after WW I)

And for all you ignorant of history, blood libel refers to a myth spread by christians against Jews that during the Passover celebration, Jews would kidnap and kill christain children as a sacrifice, and use their blood to mark theirs doors in remembrance of Moses' final curse on the Egyptians, the death of the first born. It started in the middle ages, and was revived by Russian Secret Police when they released the completely bogus Protocols of Zion inthe early 20th century. It was favored reading material in Nazi circles.

To answer your last question healthcareforall, I did hear something about "temple" in one conversation about people who were/are praying for/supporting Ms. Giffords. It caused me to pause and think "oh she must/might be Jewish." It had no other meaning for me at the time, as I was not aware of the "blood libel" comments much less the meaning of that.

Yes, I forgot that - Gifford is Jewish.

And that makes palin's whining about "blood libel" even more pathetic and disgusting, she really is taking her play by play from Mein Kampf apparently.

"repubs need to keep up the fight " - Don't blame me, I voted Right!

Careful, you might be blamed if another unsuspecting democrat gets mugged!

healthcareforall,

Paul Kanjorski (D) Ohio. Called on his Demorat wingnuts to murder Florida Governor Rick Scott: "They ought to have him and shoot him. Put him up against the wall and shoot him."

There's one example and it was pretty easy to find. It was pretty personalized too.

yes skot1sh because there is no difference between saying lets keep on fighting against the crazy sarah palin and lets shoot her in her ugly face with a gun. right?

There is a huge difference. "Keep fighting against her" means "stop her from running for president, keep her up in alaska on reality tv where she belongs" something along those lines. That does not promote violence...

"shoot her in her ugly face with a gun" means "kill her" which is obviously inciting violence.

stop being ignorant people... it's the shooters fault. no political party or individual politician.

so you do see the difference you are just... unwilling? to apply it here?

How can you see the difference so plainly and then go on to say but not in this case?

I guess the truth depends on whether you agree with the person or not?

Where does palin say to shoot the democrats? I see cross hairs... that doesn't mean to shoot them.

If she says "shoot them" and they get shot.. then I can see an arguemnt that it can somehow be her fault. But if she says "they are a political target" and they get shot... that is the action of a disturbed individual.

Switch off MSNBC (Propaganda machine) and do some fact checking. MSNBC is the biggest spewer of hate in our country. Our nation was founded on opposition and the freedom to do it. If the left would ever get their way don't you think they would control your speech as well?

healthcareforall2010: Nanct Pelosi:As a mother and grandmother, I think 'lioness.' You come near the cubs, you're dead. (2006, about Republican early reaction to reports of Congressman Mark Foley's communication with House pages)

Both sides need to cut this out. No one is innocent here but the people that where shot. They where gunned down, in cold blood and not one person has wished punishment on the man who did it. Jared Lee Loughner, may electricity be passed though body until you are dead. God have mercy on your soul. Now is that hate speach, or justice?

Uh, skot? She put the cross-hairs on there and then when people commented that it might be appropriate, she came out with the "don't retreat, reload" statement. Yeah...you're right...that doesn't sound like it has anything to do with guns or shooting people.

Cross-hairs designate something as a target... not necessarily a "shoot them" target. In this case.. a political target.

While "don't retreat, reload" does invoke the imagery of firearms, it doesn't say "shoot them" it says "don't give up without a fight"

If you can't see something as anything but black and white... you are too ignorant to be carrying on conversation.

skot said-

Where does palin say to shoot the democrats? I see cross hairs... that doesn't mean to shoot them.

If she says "shoot them" and they get shot.. then I can see an arguemnt that it can somehow be her fault. But if she says "they are a political target" and they get shot... that is the action of a disturbed individual.

You're kidding aren't you. I guarrantee you that when growing up, when her father taught her how to shoot, he told her, as my father told me, "Never point your gun at anyone, unless you intend to shoot them."

Your error here is that you are assuming that everyone who hears her say what she says is a reasonable, and sane person. Unfortunately, as we saw in Tucson last weekend, not everyone is reasonable and sane. As a notable political figure, her words can have an effect on some people that goes beyond the rational.

I do not believe that Sarah Palin wants any Democrat to actually be shot, but she obviously does not understand the impact her gun oriented rhetoric can have on radicals, and people of compromised mental capacity.

Her response today indicates that she still doesn't get it, or that she doesn't care.

Yes, as my father taught me the same thing "don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them" The difference is, she's not pointing a gun at a person. She (or one of her employees who actually made the graphic) placed a cross hair over a place on a map. I have placed a cross hair on a number "2" when teaching students how to target which number to get rid of when solving an equation. That does not mean that I am telling my impressionable students to kill all 2 year olds or people who have 2's in their social security number or live on 2nd st or have a 2 in their address.

She was designating a district as a political target for the republicans to take back by winning an election. She cannot be held responsible for how a nut job takes the imagery.

Skot...and if you are too blind to see how comments and images like that could be taken literally by someone who already has problems distinguishing fantasy from reality, then you are not only blind, but you are contributing to the problem. People who excuse this type of rhetoric and brush it off as nothing more than "talk" have their head in the sand. Yes, it may just be talk to you and me...but, for someone who doesn't have the same mental capacities that we do, it may be something very different. Oh, and disparaging my intelligence because you don't agree with me doesn't contribute anything positive, either.

right... as i look at Obozo, i think knucklehead socialist... Pelosi, i think airhead... Reid, i think crook... Byrd, i think KKK... Kennedy's, i think we've had enough... Boxer, i think bankrupcy.... shall I go on?

Gary, if name-calling is the best you've got, you don't have much. If people like Sarah Palin (who has only empty rhetoric, name-calling and hateful speech) are the best your side has to offer, I'd be very worried about 2012.

Scott Kelly in regard to his sister-in-law, Gabby Giffords', assination attempt:

"...What is going on in our country that such a good person can be the subject of such senseless violence?"
.
As I look out the window, I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful," said Cmdr Kelly. "Unfortunately, it is not.
"These days, we are constantly reminded of the unspeakable acts of violence and damage we can inflict upon one another, not just with our actions but also with our irresponsible words."
"We are better than this. We must do better," he said.

just judy...Does it matter? Think about this. The level of violence in the US means that now Sarah Palin could also be a target. Sadly, she's no longer a politician and therefore, not eligible for special protection as a politician. I abhor violence in any form. Animals are violent...not human beings if we are to be held to a higher standard. Once we regress to the levels of uncivilized behaviors, we are little better.

Pete Stark (D) threatened to throw Jan Helfeld out a window.

watch?v=UjbPZAMked0

And you lefties who preach peace and love throw the most hateful speech out there, but it's OK when you do it. Only liberals have freedom of speech, everyone else is not allowed the first amendment right.

She is ignorant of the facts if she thinks the rhetoric being used now is anything like in the past. NEVER that I can recall has any political candidate suggested people using second amendment remedies. NEVER have I heard a radio talk show host tell people that if they can't get their way with ballots that they should use bullets.

The violent rhetoric has gone WAY past what is normal or healthy for this country. She, Bachmann, Angle and Kaufner are of the same psycho material. They would love to see a civil war. Their words strongly support that. They're a bunch of religious zealots claiming that the country needs taking back anytime they are not getting their way even though the people who were elected are doing the jobs they were elected to do.

That is not tyranny "ladies". That is how the democratic process works. Win some, lose some. You are not taking your country back. It was never taken from you. The lies and fear you sow will come back to haunt you all as it should and it can't come soon enough.

Thoughts from Cali

Yes speech is a very powerful thing.

So if Sarah and her daughter had been raped by some big black brothers would you hold that comic responsible for what happened?

Shows from The Daily show to Letterman and even Leno have used bullseyes and targets over people they didn't like. As a matter of fact Carson had a skit about John Lennon just a month before his death with a target on his back. The joke was "His career is dead why should he live"

So should he be accountable for what Chapman did?

The liberal left is painting the right with the same brush that they complained about during the election !

Guilt by Speech and Guilt by Association.

This man did not shoot her for a political reason Just the same as Chapman did not shoot Lennon for his war protests. They were both shot by obsessive people.

I did not hear liberal media types being blamed for shooting Reagan When the shooter was obsessed with a known liberal star.

All of you are is using Sarah as a scapegoat for this You have tried everything else to discredit her and nothing has worked.

So charge her with incitement to murder. Seems logical from your twisted point of view I am sure!

Oh and Just for your information, Sarah does not hold ANY office, nor is she running for office, She is a private citizen and she can say whatever she wants without censorship from anyone.

Free Speech goes both ways, not just your way!

SKot, the difference between your analogy and what Palin did is that she put gun-sights on the districts and then listed the NAMES of the Congressmen right underneath (Giffords was #4). That's not targeting "districts", that's targeting PEOPLE.

YES Giffords is Jewish but that's not the reason she was targeted by Palin who is nothing more than an Overreaching Goon Girl hot to make some MONEY for herself which is why she QUIT the Governorship of Alaska (and then tried to deny she was a "Quitter"). She WORKS for Rupert Murdoch or as it has been said, Murdoch OWNS her and having no serious Thoughts in her Head she just Does her Job and says whatever they Tell her to Say. The Shooter was indeed Incited to his violence by Palin's directives and anyone who would try to say that isn't so is totally dishonest. He didn't just go over there to Gifford's open forum with a loaded Automatic Pisto on his own initiative, he HEEDED Palin's directive to KILL HER! But again, this woman is so Thoughtless she doesn't even comprehend the EVIL that she incites with the Words she is directed to Speak! She really believes she is innocent of any wrongdoing cause as she sees herself she is just a typical All American Dumb Dumb looking to make a BUCK for herself like Thousands of Others.

"Psychopath" is not an accurate assessment of Sarah Palin, I think. Let's be fair. I'm not sure she's knowingly, rationally out to hurt others for kicks. More possibly you mean she's delusional, misguided, prone to misunderstanding. Has a tunnel perspective she believes is the only truth. A distorted reality.

And the attention and adulation we are giving her are not helping her see anything differently.

stop being ignorant people... it's the shooters fault. no political party or individual politician.

You're simplifying it too much. Why did the shooter do what he did? Who or what incited him to shoot a bunch of innocent people? Fact: Sarah Palin published a map delineating Democratic politicians she wanted defeated, and marked them with bulls-eye symbols as part of her "don't retreat, reload" campaign. It's ironic that the shooter was captured as he attempted to reload his gun.

And don't try and feed me that crap about "surveyor's symbols". Everyone knows those were bulls-eyes; Palin herself said so. Anyone who says otherwise is engaged in the Palin/Beck tradition of revising history to suit their warped views...

By targeting districts she was targeting the districts that she wanted the representative defeated. Could she have used better terminology? Probably. when she said lock, and reload, did you all hear what came out of her mouth right after wards, or did you chose to ignore it? for those that chose to ignore it, she said that it was NOT a call to arms. watch the speech.

@ Liberal and Proud. He was NOT influenced by what Palin said, this is a fact. He had targeted this woman years before. He had made death threats to others before this came out. remember it was right before the election in November Palin made these comments. This nut has been brewing for years, and he lived in the district. He met with her in 2007, and spoke of how he thought she was stupid, and that ALL politicians are brain washing us. he didn't single out the democrats, or the Republicans, but all politicians. You are jumping to a major conclusion with NO PROOF what so ever.

Don, Palin also made that statement "Commonsense Conservatives - Don't Retreat, Instead RELOAD!" as a stand-along posting on both Twitter and Facebook and on her SarahPAC website.

That was the whole context. There was nothing else to "ignore". And she listed the names of the Congressmen she was "targeting" right on her map. That's not targeting districts. That's targeting people.

http://radio.foxnews.com/2010/03/24/palin-puts-gun-sights-on-%E2%80%9Ctarget%E2%80%9D-map-urges-we-%E2%80%9Creload%E2%80%9D/

Are you really telling me you think this is okay?

At what point will we just stop it? Have we lost our minds...given ourselves away to political thought? We are more than just that. It is just time to stop with all the meanness and at least conduct ourselves like civilized people even when we disagree.

Exactly what is wrong with that?

4bucks your entire post sounds as angry as they want you to sound. The overwhelming population wanted single payer health care and that was why the Dems won a super-majority in the first place. If any decided they didn't want the health care now it is because it wasn't single payer and the only reason it wasn't single payer is because the Republicans kept that from happening.

Did you hear any of us screaming tyranny? No.

Did you hear any of us screaming about taking the country back? No.

Did you hear a single person on the left literally telling people that we need to shoot people if we don't get our way? No.

The rhetoric got out of hand and there's no two ways about it.

60% of people didn't get what they wanted well - too bad. I'd say 100% of people didn't get what they wanted when it came to the health care bill.

You have two parties in congress battling over what goes in a bill. It is not always going to turn out how you want. That is not tyranny. People really need to educate themselves. They're yelling "tyranny" and they don't even know what the hell they're talking about.

It is not necessary that the madman be linked to a particular party, movement or person for him to have been inspired by the hate rhetoric. Nor does anyone want to disable debate by seeking that it be carried out in a thoughtful, civil manner. It is obvious to the most casual observer that the level of political discourse in our country has reached a nadir even below the level of the hayday of gov. Wallace. We can complain and adjure here, but our goal can only be accomplished by shunning the hate mongers en nasse in the next election. I am happy to sense that most will say 'good riddance' to them.

From what I've read about the anti-Palin, Palin did this, it's Palin's fault diatribes I get the impression that the anti-Palin group would be happy to let the real murderer go and hang Palin in his place.

I use the word "dense" and my comment is deleted and not restored. Yet -- just judy , above, calls a particular person a " shameless, narcissistic psychopath" and her comment is restored.

This shows you all you need to know about the totalitarian views of the moderators of this board. They suppress speech with which they disagree and allow speech with which they agree to remain. No clearer evidence of a double standard of the left can be found.

While both sides are guilty of ugly rhetoric, the fact is that the Left doesn't make violent sounding threats, and doesn't use violent rhetoric against the Right. The Left doesn't use figurative metaphors associated with firearms to wage election campaigns against their opponents.

I can clearly see here just how delusional, just how ignorant, just how rapaciously arrogant, and just how prevaricated many of you folks on the Right really are about the truly evil rhetorical nonsense that gets all of you fired up, especially when you are gathered together into groups at your political rallies.

Words do matter. Jared Loughner pulled the trigger, but political slogans like, "Don't retreat, INSTEAD reload," are the little devil sitting on his shoulder telling him, "Do it. Just do it Jared."

I would have a lot more respect for Sarah Pain right now if she would have manned up today, and admitted that she has made crucial mistakes with her chosen political rhetoric, and had also made an appeal to everyone that we all need to be more careful about what we say in the realm of politics.

Gendolkari: Seems you don't read or watch the news. Apparently the murderer had no political leanings whatsoeve,r but, hey, don't let those annoying facts stop you from making accusations

Nevermind that your remark is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Loughner obviously paid attention to politics. It really doesn't matter where he thought he was on the political circle, he was on the far Right and the far Left because those are one in the same. Pure anarchy is the same as pure totalitarianism. However, outside of Harvard and Yale, the circle of politics generally isn't taught in political science classes at most universities, but rather as the familiar line with Left and Right. I'm not going to delve into why that is, but you are more than welcome to research it on your own.

Gendolkari: Actually my remarks are what the discussion is all about. Please don't dissemble. You use the 'right's' rhetoric and completely ignore the 'left's' equally vituperative rhetoric. As to the shooter, disassociative political influences may abound, in his own head, but unless you are a mind reader I doubt that you know what motivated him.

Hey Bernie,

Look up one video of Glenn Beck and watch abjectively. That is far more hienous than anything the Dems have said!

Are these in fact statements she made?

Former Alaska governor expresses 'sadness,' says it is 'reprehensible' to blame rhetoric for the tragedy

In the above statement. She says it is 'reprehensible' to blame rhetoric for the tragedy

Sarah Palin posted a nearly eight-minute video on her Facebook page early Wednesday, accusing journalists and pundits of inciting hatred and violence

But in the above statement here she claims the very same thing is done to her.

What he11?

Why do we have negative politics in America? Because that is what we respond to. In the last election no one came out to say what they would do to benefit the Country only what the other guy did wrong.

Why is it in the media? Because it sells papers that we love to read.

The politicians give us what we respond to and we eat it up. Anyone who is so far left or right, and your comments here show it, are being swallowed by the media.

I am a Republican who votes across party lines. In my life I have heard ten minutes of Limbaugh, Beck, Coulture and the other radoio loudmouths and have never listened to any of them again including Fox. Thee right and left big mouths are all idiots and listening to their shows can only dull your senses. So if you don't want to hear or see this stuff anymore then don't listen or buy their paper and see how fast it goes away.

So it is the people who have accepted this and allowed it.

@RealAmericansFirst, she used it in a speech she made, and right after she said it, she said that it was NOT a call to arms. That is where it originated. That speech predates the web site by a few months, if I have my dates correct, but I am also going off of memory, and might be wrong. I can't find dates on when it was first used on her web site. She might have used only the first part on a web site, but 9 chances out of ten that is someone else doing her site for her. but, I am not excusing it. I am just saying this was not the reason that this killer did what he did.

Everyone one here is going off about how she is so bad for putting targets on a map, when it was done before by democrats also, and from what I understand, it was explained also below the map that these were the districts where she wanted a win for her candidates. You have to read the whole message, and not just what you want. I have heard democrats on MSNBC, and politicians running use the same type of hate calling for peoples deaths, or how they wish someone would get aides, etc. It happens on both sides. When someone feels strongly about their ideas, they use hate speech to get the fence sitters over to their side. If it didn't work they wouldn't use it. Like I said BOTH SIDES do it. lets not pretend it is only a few on the right, and ignore all the others on both sides of the isles.

And P.S. you put up a page that came from Alan Combs. A very left sided liberal, that hates her also. Do you think he wouldn't slant the posting to make it look worse then it is? I already explained that on the bottom of the page it explains the districts were people that voted for the health care bill. It was never meant to say to go kill these people but to Defeat these people in the next election.

Next time find a neutral site, and maybe it will be less slanted. I won't post things coming from straight far right conservatives, trying to back my point about a liberal. find a good reference. it is only fair.

I never thought I'd ever defend Palin but for pity sake, Loughner did not follow Palin so quit blaming her for this tragedy.

It's actually quite sickening how some are using this to take pitchforks to Palin when this psycho had NOTHING TO DO WITH HER. Again, I am NO fan of Palin but this spin is a out of control.

Sean, yeah, I felt a chill, AFTER this tragedy. If I had ever seen that prior I wouldn't have thought a thing about it probably. I don't follow Palin at all. I hadn't seen Gifford's video describing Palin's website until now either. Yes, it disturbed me.

But now I find that the killer hadn't anything to do with Palin and it's giving me a different chill, how we were ALL quick to blame Palin. How much worse are we with our own crosshairs, huh?

All politicians are blowhards, some have more finesse than others. Palin isn't one of them. But to call only one side to have more vitriole than the other is just plain wrong. BOTH sides are guilty.

And it's really sick that people are fighting over this false premise that it was because of Palin and the tea party when the true story is six people died because of a psychologically disturbed man.

Now if you want to talk about Palin's use of the word "blood libel", that's just more evidence of her ineptness.

palin is too stupid to even know the word libel let alone blood. she needs to fire her speech writers which is probably her husband or daughter

Dershowitz, Others Defend Palin’s ‘Blood Libel’ Line

http://www.newsmax.com/mainpop.htm

Dershowitz - - - - - - - Isn't that a jewish name? What will all these left wing defenders of the jewish race do for cannon fodder now?

Don Walters -

Palin NEVER stated that her call to arms was NOT a call to violence and merely saying to "raise your arms to VOTE" during this video that she was lame enough to release on the day of the Memorial for those victims of the mass murder and their families and friends and community and for those injured - support for their healing, including Rep. Giffords - and support for all, including the community of Tucson - by our entire country!!

This was NOT Palin's day - period!

Palin no more knew the definition or meaning of "blood libel" than you have expressed! She spoke them because someone wrote them for her and she didn't even take the time to look up the many words she doesn't know the meaning of!!!

Again - Palin made a huge fool of herself! This time, she was an insult to our country in her total lack of regard for the tradegy of the events of last Saturday and what OUR country has experienced!!

The very kind of hate-filled, non-constructive speech people are talking about...

Russ,

Your words inidicate what actions you are likely to take, hence they do matter.

A killer has to be motivated by something. So tell me, Russ, if words are not one of the motivators, what does motivate someone to kill?

Words lead to actions. To invoke one of the right's favorite images, Hitler motivated an entire country to commit genocide and violently overthrow sovereign nations. How? Through his words.

Also, threatening speech is not protected by the First Admendment, just like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater is not protected. As smart as you are, Russ, I would think you knew that.

Jay

Perhaps what is needed are public service announcements that show the difference between demonizing speech and legitimate political discourse. It would be an enormous benefit if we included such a thing in a high school civics course. Assuming, civics is still taught.

But Russell -- Palin herself says in this article that journalists who try to hold her in any way accountable for this "incite hatred and violence" -- which is it please?

So Russel words mean nothing! Are you serious - this whole nation is build upon words - the constitution, the bill of rights are words! People have died for these words! The Bible is words! People have died for the words set down in the Bible. Your point of view is just so wrong! By the way - the first amendment is words also - Words to live by, words that guide, explain, and give meaning and purpose.

You are so wrong Russel, so wrong!

Russell, what set you off? Words do matter obviously from your post, some words sure got you going. The First Amendment protects the right of speech, but says nothing about self-responsiblity which is severly lacking in our country and in human kind. People do not live in a void and just wake up and decide to become killers. They live in an environment that has strong influences on how they deal with the world around them. It is the nature/nuture thing. And if someone has some mental disorder or skewed view of the word around them, they can become dangerous. But it is the world around them and words that effects people. It is your life experiences and your environment that influences the type of person you become.

Russ, Sorry but environment does affect individuals. Some more than others. Both sides have created a lot of hateful rhetoric in the past. Especially from the right in the past couple of years. Sarah should own up to the fact that she was one of the main instigators of this from the right. This may not have been directly linked to Saturday's shooting but it creates a environment that encourages extreme hatred.

Bull@!$%#, words mean nothing. Actions matter. Do you actually live by your principles, assuming you have any, or do you just run your mouth?

A killer decides to be a killer on his or her own.

People who think like this are the ones to be afraid of because this statement is absolutely false.

Sorry Russ, regarding the First Amendment, the Supreme Court disagrees.

"government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action."

In effect, falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater and thereby causing members of the crowd to become injured during the stampede to get out would make you liable and is an indictable offense.

So yes, words do matter and depending on what you say you can be held accountable for them.

Russ, you're either incredibly and willfully obtuse or an idiot.

Words have changed the history of the world. Words have brought down empires and led people to revolution. Words have taken an already deranged mind and led them to act on their derangement. Maybe in your happy little delusional world words are just noise, but only because you're so perfect and take full responsibility for every nasty little thing you've said or done.

Guess what, I'll be a lot of the words you've read today have pushed your buttons. Bet you'd happily throw a fist at a lot of people over their words. Bet you read a lot of words in the Bible and use them to justify a lot of what you do.

And politicians MUST be raised to a greater standard. Look at all of us, susceptible to their words: The right-wing politicians, who should be called the wrong-wing, are responsible to this devisiceness. It is the Right (the Wrong) that instigates the hate through and through. If this country leads into civil war, the right is to blame. Perhaps it would be a good thing. The red states can be left to their own devices and leave the rest of us alone. We, the blue states, make most of the money. Then, you won't have any of it, and no government protections. Would serve all of you right.

Hey you nut jobs!!

Here's a name for ya;

Byron Williams!

Tell me words don't matter.

Free speech means you can't be arrested for saying something against the government. It doesn't mean that society can't ask you to change what you're saying.

Liberals, have you been motivated by Obama's words? What about when he called Republicans " the enemy"? What about when he said " if they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun"?

We're waiting to hear your condemnation of his hostile, violent language. But, then you'd have to be consistent wouldn't you and that's not going to happen in the land of the double standard is it?

They do condem their own. That's the diffence here. Bleeding heart liberals can admit when they are wrong. Conservatives will never do that. As evidenced by Sarah's speech.

All that waiting and this is what she comes out with?

Joe -- Where? Where is the forum discussing the hostile statements of the liberals and the comments of liberals decrying such statements?

Russell said-

A killer is not motivated by anyone's words, nor motivated by "video games" nor by crazy music.

You are half right. I don't believe that a killer is motiviated by video games or music.

On the other hand, you are wrong about killers not being motivated by words. In 1936 an entire nation (Germany) went to war solely on the words of a single man, Adolph Hitler. Hitler's anti-semetic rhetoric also directly led to the execution of over 3,000,000 Jews.

In 2003 the United States invaded Iraq solely on the words of George W. Bush.

Hundreds, maybe thousands of Americans are murdered every year as the result of rumor or slander, or worse, a dare.

I would argue that inflammatory words may very well be the most common motivation for murder.

Gary, Obama admitted he was wrong for saying that. You know...it takes a strong person to admit he/she was wrong.

Something a certain person should take a lesson from...

Scott Kelly in regard to his sister-in-law, Gabby Giffords':

"...What is going on in our country that such a good person can be the subject of such senseless violence?"
.
As I look out the window, I see a very beautiful planet that seems very inviting and peaceful," said Cmdr Kelly. "Unfortunately, it is not.
"These days, we are constantly reminded of the unspeakable acts of violence and damage we can inflict upon one another, not just with our actions but also with our irresponsible words."
"We are better than this. We must do better," he said.

Again, WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS. WE MUST DO BETTER.

Russ

let's see, you just called Palin a "shameless, narcissistic, psychopath", ummm, if I am not mistaken, and of course I am not, that is as HATEFUL, as you can get.

It is not HATEFUL if it is an accurate statement.

"Psychopaths lack a sense of guilt or remorse for any harm they may have caused others, instead rationalizing the behavior, blaming someone else, or denying it outright."

Sarah Palin fits this description, thus it is not hate speech because it is a truthful statement. As for shameless and narcissistic . . . she created her own reality show, this pretty much covers those two characteristics.

WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS. WE MUST DO BETTER.

Amen my friend.

Russ you do not know what you are talking about, words do mean something. You think that John Wayne Gacy would have killed 20+ teenage boys if not hearing the words of Jimmy Carter when we was a campaign organizer for him? Jimmy Carter said something to turn him into a crazed homsexual thrill killer.

let's see, you just called Palin a "shameless, narcissistic, psychopath", ummm, if I am not mistaken, and of course I am not, that is as HATEFUL, as you can get.

I don't think Sarah Palin is a psycopath. At least I have not seen any behavior that would indicate this, to me.

I believe she is shameless, as evidenced by her statements this morning, her godawful TV reality show, and the fact that she resigned as governor of Alaska as she did. I also believe that she has a narcissistic streak. First of all, she's a politician. But beyond that, I think the issues with her wardrobe during the campaign, her practiced model strut, her god-awful TV reality show, and her near obssession with keeping in the public eye are all indications that she has a serious preoccupation with herself and her image that smacks of narcissism.

I think that a politician, who puts themselves out there, and trash talks, or promotes hate, is providing an open invitation to his/her opponents to do the same.

Russell, you are mistaken. While the statement you quote is not neccessarily very nice, it is not on par with Palin's comments. Now, if he had said something like, "We should put the cross-hairs on her," THAT would be comparable, and equally repugnant.

Terry...I'm a published writer. I know that words do matter. I never realized before just how much until those feisty book editors pointed out how easily words can be misinterpreted, reintepreted and interpreted.

I've listened to Palin speak once. My impression is that she often chooses words that are akin to some high school kid. Not a mature politically savvy woman with children. Kind of like a wandering wild cat snarling in the wind at no one in particular.

Carriane,

"Uh, skot? She put the cross-hairs on there and then when people commented that it might be appropriate, she came out with the "don't retreat, reload" statement. Yeah...you're right...that doesn't sound like it has anything to do with guns or shooting people."

So, when a football team reloads after a successful year they are getting ready to go out and shoot people?

And, I noticed your "I win because I said so" reference to my example that I have never used a "rejected" stamp to vote. nice. However, it is completely in line. The idea of targeting individuals have often been used for good and bad connotations. In fact, love songs have included lines like "I have you in my site without intending any violent connotation. You are accentuating the role of guns and violence in your mind because you want to make the argument that it condones violence and dismiss it's intended meaning by stating that you don't use guns while voting. However, my point is that a "rejected" stamp also has little to do with voting yet it is very effective in conveying an concept in advertising. So, the comparison is not out of line and I would argue appropriate.

Zoro -- I'm sorry that you are too blinded by your hatred of the left to see reality. I have stated in several posts that the left also uses hyperbolic rhetoric that is inappropriate in public and political discourse...but, you will use projection and deflection to ridiculous extremes to excuse your side when they do it. It's sad...and it's why I fear for my children's future.

Just a question, exactly how many people did Hitler personally kill? Somebody call Glenn Beck. I'm pretty sure he'd know. But I'm guessing it was relatively few. But words have no consequence? Or is it like Jared Loughner said, "...words have no meaning"? Do you defenders of Palin and the "right" really believe that? If so, then we can all take a big sigh of relief, because that would hopefully mean that you will now, collectively, SHUT UP, permanently.