You know,the tea-baggers,"right(wrong)-wing,con-serv-ah-nothins LOONY-BIN...have nobody to blame for this outlandish crazieness except themselves...for listening to fix-noise..knowing dam well this wanna-be news station has a phony political"gop'MOUTH-PIECE agenda......THE WORLD IS WATCHING!...Is this the best that America could offer?.....HELL NO!

....was that even English?

I didn't realize that Arizona's medical marijuana industry was already up and running. Clearly, our state legislators have gotten a head start on sampling the best chronic that's out there.

This birther bill is just the latest in a long string of bizarre and worthless bills that our legislators have wasted time on already this year. You would think they had nothing better to do, like make difficult budget cuts, encourage job creation, etc. No, they sit around the legislature, getting totally baked, and see if they can one-up each other with even more lunatic ideas for laws. I bet they were laughing hysterically when they voted on this one.

Next week, they will probably start debating a new bill that says "human rights" only apply to beings who can prove they are human, as in born on planet Earth!

Looks like we're paying to build that wall on the WRONG side of Arizona.

Well to be fair to the teabaggers, this isn't actually going to go into effect even if Jan Brewer signs it into law. The second they announce that their own citizens will not be allowed to vote for the president in a free and open election in 2012, there will be a riot on their hands. Even in the reddest of red states Arizona has enough patriots to realize how blatantly illegal this move is, and if you think the Wisconsin protests were big, wait until you see middle-class Americans fighting for their right to our most basic and cherished right: democracy. By next November, there wouldn't be a single teabagger left in the state legislature.

Where did Orly Taitz go?

Into hiding after the U.S. federal courts fined her $20,000 for filing frivolous lawsuits and banned her from further filings.

Birther' leader Orly Taitz ordered by Supreme Court to pay $20,000 fine for 'frivolous' lawsuit

The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals has rejected Orly Taitz's appeal of the $20,000 fine imposed on her for making frivolous filings in a long-running Birther case.

"We have fully considered Taitz's arguments," the ruling from a three-judge panel reads. "We find them unpersuasive and therefore affirm the district court's sanctions judgment."

A federal judge in Georgia imposed the sanction on Taitz in October, blasting her for, among other things, using "the courts as a platform for a political agenda disconnected from any legitimate legal cause of action."

After Taitz failed to pay the fine within 30 days, the judge directed the U.S. Attorney to collect the judgment.

Next.

Well, I was really unable to decipher anything at all from the last few posts. Can anyone tell me

a) what's morally wrong with this

b) what's ethically wrong with this

c) what's constitutionally offensive about this

and d) why anyone should actually be opposed to this?

I'm not attempting to be facetious or cunning, I actually want to know these things from a different viewpoint. I'm one person who doesn't understand a single rational argument against this, so it'd be nice to hear a fresh perspective.

I really don't want any "left wing" this or "right wing" that or "teabaggers" this or "liberals" that or "Arizona's racist" this or "Arizona's track record" that...I'm really looking for a reasonable and intelligent response that would hold for any state at any time. Just write it in a way to where anyone and everyone could understand. Please, don't start insulting our elected officials, or their past decisions, concentrate on this specific law, and tell me what's wrong with it ad why it's improper.

Z from AZ,
I was thinking the same thing. Whats the big deal? Seems only Liberals have a tantrum about proving they were born in America (maybe they're mostly illegal and cant prove it?Hmmm...). I have my birth certificate available and can show any official within minutes, plus I have my SocSec card and my driver's license at all times. I have hospital bills and photos, plus none of my relatives would make statements saying I was born in another country. When I went for my current job, when asked, I can prove I was born in America and its not a big deal, or hard to do, nor would it take years to provide. If AZ passes this law, then good for them. Cant prove you're an American - dont live there.

It's unconstitutional because qualification for President is a federal requirement set forth in the Constitution, and it can't be overridden, added to or tinkered with by a state.

Because we opted for a republic instead of a confederation of states (as some thought, and some evidently still think, we should have).

Ru - Here's what FactCheck.org says:

We were amused to see Trump make a show recently of producing what he said was his own "birth certificate," which wasn’t an official document and wouldn’t qualify him for a passport. “It took me one hour to get my birth certificate," he told the conservative-leaning news site Newsmax. "It’s inconceivable that, after four years of questioning, the president still hasn’t produced his birth certificate."

Trump’s "birth certificate" was actually an unofficial "Certificate of Birth" generated by Jamaica Hospital Medical Center (in Queens, N.Y. — not the island nation) stating that Trump was born there June 14, 1946. But because it was not "issued by the city, county or state" as required by the State Department, it does not constitute legal proof of citizenship sufficient to obtain a passport. When confronted with these facts, Trump later coughed up what he said was his official birth record issued by New York City’s Bureau of Records and Statistics. It is a certified photocopy of a "Certificate of Birth" signed by a physician. This one does appear to meet State Department requirements. And so does Obama’s.

AND THEY WANT TO BLAME WASHINGTON?....This nonsense hurts,this piece of legislature has got to hurt their business capital & growth...In Arizona's economy.What the hell happened?Arizona use to be one of the fastest growing states in the Union!.....Nevada also... But with all their "tea-nuts" look what happened to them too!.........Who, what of ever thought?.............blame yourselves!YOU VOTED THEM IN!

RealAmericans, I believe Obama was born in Hawaii; my point is that he should have stopped this nonsense within days of it starting instead of doing nothing for over a year. For what purpose did he need to delay the release of the documents? Its ridiculous. Be a leader and lead! Doing nothing and campaigning seems to be all he's good at for the last 3 years.

The craziness isn't in AZ. It's in WI. Every employer in the US is required to request 2 forms of ID proving US citizenship. What's the big deal with providing a birth certificate. You would think that for the highest office in our land it wouldn't be requested. It'd be required. I'm not a birther. All I'm saying is that prove of US citizenship is the norm for us ordinary folks. Why would it be any different where the POTUS is concerned. If proof of natural citizenship is required, cough it up. Why even make an issue out of it?

Sadigi, you simply perpetuate the stupidity of the birther movement. COUNTLESS reports have come out from Hawaii, that NOBODY and I mean NOBODY can get a copy of an actual BC. If anyone requests one, they will always get the certificate of live birth. The BC belongs to the state and they don't release, so that debunks your "if he wanted to he could". Secondly, you idiots who claim a conspiracy regarding news releases at the time of birth, can't POSSIBLY think the Obama's were that savy, that they thought at the time of birth, that he MIGHT run for Pres so by God, they better get someone to run announcements in TWO papers in Hawaii "just in case".. Then there is the wing nut quote from granny who they report says he was born in kenya... only they never print the rest of the interview... she went on to say he was born in Hawaii.. and told the hospital. She was Kenyan and trying to answer English questions, but she made it clear.

Finally, this law will be tossed and cost AZ a ton of money.. WHOOP WHOOOP... cause NO state can pass something regarding the requirements to be President. As for the one asking "what's wrong with the law"?? This is the answer.. PLUS.. do you even think this would have happened with Bush???? Hell to the NO... You guys just can't get over a black winning the election... even with TONS of proof he was born here.. you still say.. "yeah.. I still have doubts""..... Course you have the Senator who states things in speeches to the Senate.. then says.. "what he said was not to be taken as a factual statement".. Jeez guys.... Can't you do better????

I really don't see how. Arizona can regulate it's own elections. No where does it establish that voters can't vote for a specific candidate, the law as it exists requires candidates on the federal level to establish citizenship before being formally represented on a state ballot. What's wrong with that?

Z from AZ

I'm with you on this, I don't really see the big deal. The only reason this is getting any grief, is that too many people are hypersensitive on race issues. If the law requires that white, black, pink and purple people all do the same thing then I don't see where it's racist other than possibly in it's origins. Granted some would contend the marijuana prohibition has racist origins also.

I also don't see where it's a constitutional issue, as the law only would help the state enforce a Federal mandate. This is much like the immigration law, which was simply an application of federal laws to the state level. If I was a citizen of Arizona, I might question why we need to re-iterate them at the state level, but it's their tax dollars at work, so more power to them. I'm not sure where the idea that Arizona is "tinkering" with the federal law comes from. It's simply adding another layer of enforcement to the law that already exist.

What amazes me is the arrogance of Rep. Ruben Gallego, he should probably be censored in my opinion. Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Phoenix, said he was embarrassed. "Arizona is the first state to pass a birther bill. We look pretty much backward," Gallego said. "You might as well change Arizona to Alabama." - What an arrogant piece of dung. The governor of Alabama should demand an apology. Sounds to me like he was trying to infer that everyone in Alabama is a backwoods, racist, hillbilly, and that being from Alabama is embarrassing.

Ru - When this issue was first raised FOUR YEARS AGO during Obama's first election campaign, an official copy of the President's birth certificate WAS requested and obtained from the State of Hawaii, certified valid by all state and federal officials as well as by the press.

SEE THE FACTCHECK.ORG article. (We can lead you to water, but we can't make you drink!)

Obama's CERTIFIED, VERIFIED, PUBLICIZED birth certificate is THE EXACT SAME birth certificate any person would get, and is both legal and HAS BEEN USED to issue his U.S. passport.

It's the exact same level of official birth certificate George W. Bush would get if he requested his from the state of Texas. (Not that any of you have mentioned asking for that.)

Your own birth certificate is no more official than President Obama's.

Get over it.

RU...I don't know how many times I have to say this, but a "Certificate of Live Birth" (as is shown in the photo, and passed of as a birth certificate) is NOT a certified birth certificate.

I've said it before, I'm not a birther. But I am someone who makes sure I get my facts straight before I present them, and I'm quick to comment when someone is incorrect. Don't pass off something as fact if it's merely an unofficial statement.

At this point in his term (as I've said), it wouldn't matter where he was born.

However, it does matter what information is being passed around, and yours is incorrect, so stop trying to pass it off as fact. It's intellectually dishonest, and extremely misleading.

How is this racist? Where in the bill does it state that the candidate must be a US Citizen by birth and that they MUST be white. It doesn't mean a hellabeans of his color. You individuals (since there is to many to point out one by one) that automatically conclude that "because the black man won we can't handle it". Would that be because the Democrats have unfairly labeled all the GOP as the "old white guy's"? I', just wondering where your inflammatory remarks are for statements such as that.

By the way...the genius that stated that Arizonians are going to wake up and realize that they can't vote freely...is still trying to figure out who in their population is legal or not so in double respects...it makes it real easy to see why they might even want to attempt legislation like that.

And I don't know how many times you have to be told to believe it, Z from AZ, but just because you never go outside your own little hollow that appeared in the "Deliverance" movie doesn't mean that everywhere is just like where you are.

Some states' OFFICIAL form of birth certificate is titled "Certificate of Live Birth".

That's what Hawaii issues, as do most other states since the passage of the Patriot Act.

And that's what the U.S. State Department accepted as verified proof of Obama's citizenship when they issued his passport - at AGE 26, and renewed it every 10 years since.

For somebody who "gets his facts straight before he posts them", you're sorely out of date. Sorry, you're wrong.

I agree Martin! People who dont live, work or vote in AZ seem to have some very strong opinions and demands for the people who DO live, work and vote in AZ. Somehow, those who support Obama have turned their support into all an out attack mode - like mini dictators running around throwing tantrums.
People who DO live, work and vote in AZ, *you* have the power to change or keep things the way they are by voting and campaigning. Everyone else, move to AZ or tone down the hatefull DEMANDS.

Thanks, and I supported Obama till he signed that stupid bill for more financial transparency and it actually did the opposite. That's when he changed teams. Or at least he wasn't hiding behing the change signs anymore.

So, Ru, you think Arizona should be able to enact and enforce unconstitutional laws if a majority of Arizonans agree?

Wow, that's a screwed-up interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. And there's NO WAY it will stand up in court.

RAF - As far as I know, the issue has never been whether he's a U.S citizen, but whether he was born outside of the U.S. First, you need to look at what was issued in Hawaii in 1961, not what was accepted as proof of citizenship much later than that. Second, I'm on your side. I don't think Obama is ineligible, but people passing off information as truth are mistaken.

As far as the Hawaii Revised Statutes, they're hazy at best. Second, for all the "I've seen the official documents" talk, you'd think that if it was such a big deal, it'd be public record by now. The issue here isn't that Obama may or may not be eligible for the presidency, the issue here is that Arizona is proposing a law, stating that any president, no matter what background, and what nationality, much provide proof of constitutional eligibility before being placed on the Arizona ballot as a candidate. Is this really that wrong?

And Barry Moore, according to Hawaii Revised Statutes, there's no reason why Obama can't release a copy of the original. Not that it would matter (except to a few), but this argument would be taken care of. And again, the topic is Arizona's law, not the Obama presidency's constitutionality. That issue will never be fully resolved to everyone's satisfaction. Consider the issue at hand.

This has got to be right out of mad-magazine!........i'm in the WRONG business,i need to walk around acting dumb and say dumb things & walk into things......Then i could get elected,write a book,go on the talking circiut,sell....pet rocks,ahahahahah!.....HEY! this just might be a good idea.......

"change Arizona to Alabama"

OOOOOOOuch! Oh man, I can't believe he said that.

Awww Arizona, you were doing so good. Why'd you have to go and f*** it all up and lose the respect your stance on immigration have gotten you?

@Ru 1.14 -- "I have my birth certificate available and can show any official within minutes, plus I have my SocSec card and my driver's license at all times."

Well, some of us might question the validity of your documents Ru. I don't care who validates them, I'm still not convinced. Maybe I think you might be an illegal alien from Mexico and we should deport you under SB1070.

At the very least, there's no way you're getting on the Arizona ballot for President of the United States in 2012 with such questionable documentation. Even if you ARE already the President of the United States!

Tampering with free and fair elections is a very slippery slope, which has been used quite effectively by many of the world's worst dictators.

AZdad, I'd be happy to turn over a notarized copy of my birth certificate to every major news organization in the country if I was running for such an important office.

If I could side step my way around proving things one way or the other, how fair of an election would it be? Only as fair as someone tells you it is, right?

And Arizona in no way is denying the rights of voters to vote for whom they choose, regardless of party or eligibility. They simply only allow the names of those who've proven eligibility to remain on the ballot. This doesn't restrict anyone from writing a candidate in, and from Arizona adding that vote to the national count.

And don't say "well, maybe they won't consider those votes". That's much bigger deal, and illegal in so many ways it isn't even funny. Not to mention, it'd be an incredible accusation about a law that doesn't absolutely nothing of the sort. I don't mean to get defensive, but I've been on these forums long enough to know how far off the path these discussions go (both left AND right) before they get set back on the right track.

Hey Chris from Yucaipa, we had to do something desperate when is the last time you heard anything from MSNBC or CNN (basically anyone but FOX) covering anything down here. They act just like Washington D.C., maybe our lovely(sarcastic) governor, will martyr herself in Nogales or anywhere on the border till someone pays attention. It's not as bad as the height of 3 mths ago but its still terrible.

Azdad, there are legal actions that I can take if anyone is in doubt of my available documentation.

I think its smart of him not to show it because it keeps all the Republicans waisting time fighting to see it and not doing other things. lol, im all for it and besides if someone tried to force me to show mine, i wouldnt either.

But Barry-Moore the difference between us and them(the politicians); they would deport us, and just make them...well, like every other political scandal that never seems to have an ending, just wait were putting a committee together to look into it.

Z in AZ - did you say you can provide a "notarized copy" of your birth certificate?

Well, that's exactly what Obama has, too. So if only his original will do, same goes for you.

Hey, tea-bag=not: The statement that I was replying to was Captiosus' first comment about the border then I addressed the statement on Obama. Do you really believe with the influx(sp?) of illegals is truly being addressed; cause if you do, I'll let you stay in your own private little warm world.

Thanks for the laughs, guys & gals. It could be a piece of toilet paper with the words "Certificate of Live Birth" stamped on it and it would be the legal document, evidence sufficient for a passort IF SIGNED AND SEALED AND NUMBERED AND REGISTERED...and since the certificate of live birth that Obama presented was, unlike the one Trump got with NO signature, well, guess you jusr have to deal with it. The rest of us are just not that dumb.

So...who is going to vote for Trump? Are you birther enough to think he can sort through facts and documents well enough to handle the trigger on blowing up the world?

and who among you think that no one with the actual authority to vet the presidental candidates will have failed to collect all relevant documents needed far before Arizona needs to order the ballots.

Who among you would like Obama's job enough to produce false documents to get past THAt vetting authority?

For the last time, it is the issue here. This Arizona law would not have even ben created if Obama was a good old boy white man. For the last time read what i am writing. For the last time, it is clearly about rasizm. And for the last time, only a Republican would think it isnt.

I keep hearing this law called unconstitutional and I don't understand this belief. The way I understand it, this law is simply reinforcing the constitution. In that it's only reinforcing the constitution it's clearly more constitutional than a federal law that imposes fees for choosing not to take part in commerce. Basically, as I see it, Arizona is just saying that they want to verify that you meet the federal requirements to hold office to be on the ballot. They're not saying you have to have the Constitution memorized to vote, there is a big difference. I just cannot understand the venomous comments some of the people on here are making in relation to this law. Really, if you're so angry about something this insignificant, and feel the need to spew such racist and hateful drivel, you're a bigger problem than the birthers, the tea-party people, or Sarah Palin, and she's quite a problem.

Personally, I think the birthers are chasing a red herring, but I think that a state, or national law, requiring a more complete verification of eligibility for office is probably a good idea. Remember that this is simply a verification of a status that is already required by federal law, not a change of qualifications to hold office. I base this off two things, first this is certainly the information age. People are used to having everything at their finger tips, and if it's not there they want to know why. Not having every detail of everything when it comes to public officials fuels this sort of "garbage" politics that surround the birther movement, and generally muddies the water around the things that should be real issues.

Second, with the current unregulated influx of illegal immigrants there is the potential for problems. I remember recently reading a story of a Mexican-born student in California that didn't find out he was an illegal until he was 17 and started looking into financial aid for college. I kind of feel bad for the kid, as the law would probably say that his whole family should be deported. I am not sure what happened in the case, but that sucks for the guy who wants to go to college, and then ends up having his whole life tossed into chaos.

You know, when I was a kid we thought we could cover up a little itsy bleach stain on my mother's brand new carpet with a lazyboy, but come to find out when she was vaccuuming she moved the chair. And guess what? The stain got bigger so the fix needed to be bigger. But to no avail the carpet was still beyond repair. Forget it, your pointless.

Do this people have nothing to do in Az????

Do they have the unemployment issue under control? (Don't they promise jobs, jobs, jobs?)

Do they have the border issue under control? (looks like the Mexican cartel is moving there. It's business)

They don't have even the police enforcement issue under control (judge ruling against). And they have the time to pass a law requiring the sitting President to provide with a birth certificate after 3 years into the Administration? Those are the kind of things that makes ALL politicians looks like crooks!

What a bunch of losers!!!!!!!

Barry, and if there's any inkling that Trump, Huckabee, Palin. Romney or any other white presidential candidate for 2012 was born outside of the United States of America (or did not fit the specifications deemed appropriate by the Constitution), they wouldn't make it on the ballot either.

Do you research, this isn't the first time a president's, or candidate's eligibility has been questioned. There have been several before him, and there have only been so many elections, so it's not necessarily a rare occurrence.

The comment above was for teabag. BTW we were trying then too, but the rest of the country had no clue.

Martin -

What state do you live in? And what ground breaking legislation are they passing that allows you to make such harsh judgment calls about Arizona's legislation?

The unemployment rate here is on par with the US average, even with illegal immigration.

The border issue is a national security issue, not a state security issue. The Arizona legislature can only do so much with the limited resources that the federal government allows.

The immigration law was passed in Arizona. It was challenged in Federal court, and sent to the 9th circuit on appeal, which resides in San Francisco...arguably the most radically liberal city in the nation.

This law doesn't require any president to furnish any birth certificate. It requires that the ballot only be filled with candidates for election that have proven their citizenship status. What...you think that once this law is passed, all of a sudden Arizona will fail to recognize Obama as president, and suddenly, Biden is the president and Boehner is the vice president, but only in Arizona? If you want to vote for someone, you can write them in on the ballot. Nothing stops that.

Anything else you'd like to ask?

All you have to do is read this chain of comments. One poster talk of immigration policies, (which has nothing to do with this piece of garbage legislation). It's obvious. I live in Hawaii and have had breakfast at Bears Coffee in Hilo, HI with Governor Abercrombie. He's a man of integrity. He knew President Obama's mother and father before and after the President was born. He remembers when he was born--he saw him as a young baby,

The immigration bill passed will cost the people of AZ a ton of cash on the way to the SCOTUS. It was thrown out by a panel of 3 Federal judges 2 days ago. My birth certificate issued by the State of Massachusetts reads: Live Birth, Male Child XXXXXX, the X's being my last name. My parents named me after I left the hospital. I served in the USN. I've held a passport for decades. I've had a SS card since I was 14, (back then you didn't get a SS card until you needed one to work).

For the State of Hawaii to issue the birth certificate that they issued, they had to have the certificate of live birth. Privacy laws mean something to us, in Hawaii. I hope the President holds out and doesn't produce anything to satisfy a bunch of racists idiots that are just angry because he won't order the National Guard to shoot and kill every Latino in the state of AZ. Doesn't matter if they are 5th generation Americans--this "sham of a law" is ripe with racism. Has this "anal probe" ever been pulled before? No.

I hope that it cost supporters of the bill every single thing that they own. What next? Secession from the Union? I've read where you people want to amend to Constitution to read "a Christian Nation", defying "establish no State religion".

This is proof positive that "if" you elect racists law makers, you will get racists legislation. What's next--to reintroduction "separate but equal" legislation? If anyone supports this rag of legislation, you're a racist idiot.

When your stuck in a hole and got nothing, the birther thing comes up.

he backed the bill only because the final version was constitutional and required all candidates to demonstrate that they meet the individual requirements of their office.

So what’s wrong with following the constitution???

One must question why anyone would pay millions to HIDE their birth certificate!

"Arizona is the first state to pass a birther bill. We look pretty much backward," Gallego said. "You might as well change Arizona to Alabama."

WOW! Sounds like HE is backward! Racist? Bigot? Hmmm

I’m sure Alabama is insulted, as they should be

FACTCHECK - For you "Birthers" including Limbaugh, Palin, Trump, Beck, etc", visit this link to see President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth complete with Raised Seal. By the way, he was'nt born in Chicago.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

After you do, then wallow in "Your Own Ignorance and Stupidity" - ROFLMAO.

President Obama spend money in legal fees and won.

i really hate to rain on your parade, but i work in an industry where if you ARE NOT a citizen of the united states you ARE NOT allowed to work there.

so are you guys telling me that it is illegal and unconstitutional for the company i work for to make SURE that i am a citizen of the united states of america?

i work in the aircraft industry on government aircraft. when i send out an email the company has a footer at the bottom saying:

If you are not the addressee, then the review, distribution or

other use of, or pursuing

of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. The 

information may be subject

to the United States Export Control Laws and Regulations and its misuse could be 

a criminal offense.

If received in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy the 

original message,

its attachments and all copies.

Since this guy has access to more secret documents than i can shake a stick at, i think it is only fair that he goes thru the same checks and balances that i do.

Z from AZ--the Chief Justice, Alex Kozinski was appointed by Reagan and On May 23, 1991, President George H.W. Bush nominated Kleinfeld --nothing in that box of Cracker Jacks.

So Arizona passes a law that actually enforces a provision of the U.S. Constitution and the uneducated electorate can't stand it. A lot of you need to check your facts and go back to school and get an education. To get on a world wide forum like this and cry "razism" is outrageous. Please learn how to spell and speak proper English. Then to be obviously illiterate and have the audacity to tell us what the Constitution says it just boggles the mind.

there is nothing wrong with the law.

on behalf of their citizens, each state has the duty to qualify each candidate BEFORE placing them on the ballot and all presidential candidates must file a "certificate of candidacy" to be considered.

it seems perfectly reasonable for any state to be clarify what documentation is required to ensure a candidate meets these standards. what is wrong with this?

nothing......

as for the birther issue:

most rational public servants faced with the questions about their origin of birth would produce the original certificate that completely refutes the argument. not a copy, not a reproduction ....... the genuine article.....

we're told it exists and for me there is no reason to believe it doesn't.

so why not produce it?

only reason i can see is there is benefit to keep the topic alive........to use as a rallying cry for your supporters .......and to hammer on your detractors.

plus having a continuing birther fight in the news, helps deflect all the other relevant troubles our country is facing.

looks like John McCain is out of a job ... when will he be recalled

Z from AZ

RU...I don't know how many times I have to say this, but a "Certificate of Live Birth" (as is shown in the photo, and passed of as a birth certificate) is NOT a certified birth certificate.

A Certificate of Live Birth is a short form birth certificate. Try again.

You are a birther trying to make a reasonable argument. But we all know reasonable isnt in your very minimal vocabulary.

OMG really people - Its fine to check if someone is a citizen, but when he shows you a certificate of live birth that should be that. I dont know any company that would go no, thats not good enough, i want dis, dat, and de other thing as proof. Now come on, follow the bouncing ball, its called racism and its comming from the Republicans.

Hey, at least libs are consistent. Don't have to prove you are a US citizen to run for office. Don't have to prove you are a citizen to vote.

Mike, this is where you and I disagree. It isn't a birth certificate and we both know that it isn't a legal document. It's what it represents that is the problem. Some say it represents the birth certificate. Some say that it doesn't. As I've said before, it doesn't matter, because we'll never have a complete consensus about it.

What is important is that laws like these are passed, that way this type of ambiguity doesn't occur again. It's already happened several times. If there are claims that birth certificates go by different names, and aren't certified, but are supposed to be considered legal, then we need to make it law to either acknowledge those documents or not. That eliminates all of this gray area. And as I've said before, if Obama is a U.S. citizen, then what would he, you, or any of your like minded comrades have a problem with?

Will people in Arizona have to prove they have an IQ over 50 to vote in national elections ?

Well, I guess this new law is OK because after all it only applies to non whites, right ?

It is 2011, time to take off the white hoods !

RealAmericansFirst.........I think you are correct, however it could prevent someone from getting onto the ballot in Arizona, thus making all Arizona votes meaningless in a national election, which might be a good thing !

MM - it wouldn't prevent anyone wanting to vote for a non-balloted candidate from writing his/her name in and that vote being counted in national counts.

I like this law! (Besides my thinking that it is a total waste of time and money)

That brings up my next question. When passed, and Obamas name is on the ballot during the next election, will you "Birthers" finally shut up?

I say elections for President should not include Pheonix from now on since it is a Racist state. Everyone knows thats why they made the law, it wasnt to verify everyone who runs for presidency, it was to get the birth certificate of one Obama if he runs for a second term. Republicans dont like the idea that he said no to them. Imagine that, a black man saying no to a republican. How dare he.

This law has several problems. The biggest one I see is that it gives the Arizona Secretary of State unchecked powers to alter the ballot in Arizona based on what they "believe". In other words, a candidate could present a birth certificate (just like Obama has done) and if the Secretary of State chooses not to "believe" that it is legitimate, then he has the power to remove that person from the ballot. That is a ridiculous abuse of power and that is unconstitutional. (Note: In the time it took me to write this comment I've noticed that the article has been changed to read that the Secretary of State will set up a committee to determine eligibility of a candidate. This is a slight improvement, but it still is completely unnecessary unless it is only limited to elections for offices within the state of Arizona and not federal elections).

Further, the states have no right to introduce legislation that supercedes Federal laws in a matter that belongs to the federal government. There is a vetting process that all candidates must go through to be eligible to run for President. The States need not interfere or provide additional requirements in addition to this to ensure the candidates are eligible to be on the ballot. This is a highly politically motivated piece of legislation and you would have to be pretty gullible not to know that this type of law gives unreasonable powers to the State that usurps Federal powers. Just like their immigration laws went to far and usurped Federal laws, Arizona continues to act like a renegade state and therefore is bringing the entire state's credibility into grave question. Yes, it is making the entire state look completely and totally ridiculous and backward. They might as well go ahead and change the name of the state to Anozira to match the way they are thinking these days.

Barry-Moore

Phoenix is a state? Not only did you spell it wrong, it's not a state. I guess we can hope they do pass a law to require a certain IQ before you vote, as it would seem you'll be out of the pool.

I would have thought this would have been a very basic requirement all along. That should go for any and all Presidential candidates. Seems to me that providing ones original and complete birth certificate as proof of natural citizenship would just be a given in order to meet the requirements. Everyone is required to provide a birth certificate for all sorts of reasons, and if one is to the lead the country, that's the first thing that should be confirmed.

Aggie, It is already a requirement which is why this law is purely political and completely unnecessary. How could anyone possibly believe that the Federal government doesn't screen and check each candidate seeking the highest office in the land for all of the legal requirements to do so. It is really absurd to even think a bill like this is remotely necessary unless it only is to apply for State held offices.

Ok this is a random question more related to the thread than the topic. Why is half this thread collapsed? Are people on both sides of this issue so small that they feel the need to collapse each other's comments?

BTW, a little tid-bit on this very topic should be noted. I believe it has in the past been some challenges/inquiries made against Arizonia Senator John McCain's citizenship status to even be eligible for his current office.

I do believe that President Obama is eligible for current office. But I completely understand and agree with the law. In fact, I am curious as to why it was not made by all states (or Congress for that matter) decades ago. I do not see it as an un-Constitutional law. The Constitution states cannot pass laws that infringe on the rights of the federal government. It does not state that states cannot pass laws further enforce and strengthen federal laws.

As a side, I would be interested in knowing if the Arizonia law has the possibility to not only have the "proof of eligibility for office" placed on canditates for the Presendent of the United States, but also places it on other elected offices? Does it do the same for their US Representative or Senator? State representatives. I am not just talking about are the "natural-born" or not since some of those offices do not require it. But there are other requirements that can be validated by the same thing. I think I remember there is an Age Limit for a US Representative and Senator in the Constitution. Interesting academic question. :)

Imagine that, a black man saying no to a republican. How dare he.

Imagine that...a WHITE man challanging a black president...how dare he? So now Trump is a racist?

The true irony of all this is that Obama's opponent in the 2008 race, John McCain of ARIZONA, was born in Panama. But strangely, the question of his citizenship was never raised.

According to our Constitution, Obama meets the requirements for citizenship because his mother was a US citizen, his parents were married before he was born, and his mother had fulfilled all the residency requirements prior to his birth. These Tea Partiers who claim to love the Constitution have a very funny way of showing it.

LouisJ

What's wrong with it is that it does what you said it should not do, it insults our elected leader.

TOO BAD! It SHOULD insult Americans that he REFUSES to show it! It’s IN the constitution!

Barlow-1919963

This law won't matter, because soon, Arizona will be establishing stupidity levels for voters, and since nobody's smarter than a fifth grader in Arizona there won't be any voters anyway!!!

I’m sure Gabrielle Giffords wouldn’t appreciate that comment...isn't she the new democratic golden child?

FedupwithFed

LouisJ

What's wrong with it is that it does what you said it should not do, it insults our elected leader.

TOO BAD! It SHOULD insult Americans that he REFUSES to show it! It’s IN the constitution!

He did show it - you refuse to acknowledge it. Can you read?

As a fellow American - I am embarrassed by you.

All you lefties tend to get awwwwfully defensive whenever this issue comes up..... just sayin'.

FEDUP - This statement is what the problem is!

TOO BAD! It SHOULD insult Americans that he REFUSES to show it! It's IN the constitution!

He has shown it, or he wouldn't be where he is. What irritates ME, is the FACT that people like YOU - Just won't take NO for an answer, unless it's you saying it on the floor in Congress/the Senate, in a vote!!!

If it comes down to him having to show it AGAIN, What the HELL are you people going to DO when he does, START THE MUSLIM CRAP UP AGAIN??

I've been a registered republican for over 40 years and THIS kind of CRAP is exactly why I left after Bush Sr. was elected. They have lost their way, they have lost all their common sense and most of all....THEY DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE LITTLE GUY, IN THIS COUNTRY!!

Damn. It's getting crazier by the day out here. I fully intend to vote these loons out of office next chance we get. I'm just hoping that the rest of the fine citizens of this state will do it too.

Since taking office Jan Brewer has Created SB1070 to make her money for private prison systems, not added one single job to the local economy, Named Colt the "State Gun" right after Gabby Giffords got shot, Championed legislation allowing firearms to be brought onto school property, and formed her own death panel which allowed 2 people to die directly as a cause of her actions. Among other completely absurd things.

Enough from this bimbo. Time for her to go.

I think everyone in AZ politics needs a civics lesson and test, before they are allowed to run for office. The esteem gentleman said this was not about Obama, but I am having trouble believing him. AZ is officially off my to visit list for the near future.

As someone who believes that President Obama was and is qualified to be President by way of the Constitutional requirements, and that he will be able to furnish evidence of such... I don't see why people would be offended that all candidates be required to furnish evidence of their qualification for office, in order to ensure that our law is followed.

This is already a requirement of the constitution. Kinda like the federal laws on immegration, that frankly are ignored by the federal government. I see a lot of emotion but seriously, proof of cictizenship is already required for many local elections (do you live in the district, etc). This is basic prequalification.

What is the big deal?!?

Ronald Hussein Reagan---You forgot Bill Ayers and Acorn. Gotta keep up the propaganda that the weirdos are obsessed with.

Folks I'm telling you it must be something in the sand because the whole state of Arizona doesn't have that much water! There is actually proof that wandering around in the desert for a long time does make people delusional, the only thing that could do that is the sand, right? Now let me tell you about my pet pig that swims like a swan....

Fed Up---wouldn't matter if the law mandated having sex with poodles while wearing a clown costume, you'd back anything introduced by a Republican.

Okay, I'm selling t-shirts on cafepress.com with Obama's birth certificate printed on them. If there is anyone on this forum who reads this wanting to make a statement against birthers I suggest getting one. Especially if you're in AZ and disagree with this move. Wear Obama's birth certificate and watch birthers spontaneously combust in front of you!

Because Newsvine removes any URL I post (unlike some other people on here), the name of my shop is Tired of Nuts. So just type in cafepress.com followed by /tiredofnuts.

Get the word on the street people! It's real and it's legit!

www.cafepress.com/tiredofnuts

WinkWink fully supports Arizona and their attempt to bring the US Government in line with where it should be.

this isnt as big of an issue as some are making it out to be i think, on both sides. All this bill does is enforce the constitution for previous laws that do not fir it any longer. it isnt a clamp down on rights, for the simple fact, it states in the constitution to be a president, you need to be "a natural born citizen". No problem right? well, when it comes to running for president, you should have a birth certificate, not a "record of birth" for starters. 2nd, since what ever year you want to look at, there has been changes in the way states do things. The ine office now, presented a "record of live birth" to say it to me but the way even the govoner of HI put it, does nothing much more than say this person exsists, and is living or deceased. To go thru the rig a maro of saying it can not be photo copied or what have you is a lame excuse... and as far as things go, doesnt matter anymore. Nobama i dont see being re-elected and if he is, imo there are a lot more idiots that need to go back to school and learn what being a president actually means starting with the president himself.

back on track however, it just makes it all that much more official in the future to eliminate the crying.... you all should be happy about such a law, unless you look forward to a weekly-monthly cry session as to if someone is a legal president or not. Me personally, think its a good idea to adapt our laws to meet the changes that have come about since it was written, as long as they do not infringe upon our rights, but to ensure them. However... those against immigration, we have the issue of moms who give birth in the US from other countries, some to return after, willingly, who now if you have not guessed, are eligable to run for any office, to include POTUS. From Japan, China, Mexico, Iran, UK,.... yes, they are natural born in the US, can hold dual citizenship, and you guessed it, eligable to run for President. like i said, nothing to get your arms in a flail over when it comes to this bill, however, i think other limits, and QUALIFICATIONS, should be imposed.

there is nothing wrong with the law.

There is. States cannot regulate Federal elections. You can't disenfranchise the voters.

Obama clearly got his “Certification of Live Birth” from Hawaii, I believe that Obama is a US citizen and has the right to be president even though I personally disagree with a lot that he has done.

The heart of the issue is can Hawaii be trusted to provide this document, they cannot. See below.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

As long as an adult can walk into Hawaii’s version of the Department of Records and provide proof that they are a legal resident of Hawaii, the document is issued.

The child, on the other hand, could have been born in Hawaii, Kenya, or a back-alley in Budapest.

Again, I believe he is a legal citizen but the fault lies with Hawaii.

www\capitol\hawaii\gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM

Just replace the \ with .

I don’t know why Obama’s worshipers jump out from the chair without reading the Arizona Bill or even this article. There is no doubt that this reaction is proper of a person that lack or reading comprehension.

The article says” The Arizona proposal would require political parties and presidential candidates to hand in affidavits stating a candidate's citizenship and age and to provide the candidate's birth certificate and a sworn statement saying where the candidate has lived for 14 years.

If candidates don't have a copy of their birth certificates, they could meet the requirement by providing baptismal or circumcision certificates, hospital birth records and other documents.

As you can see President Obama has not problem. “surprise” me that people from the left, who called themselves more educated , bring name calling and offend with names like tea baggers to people that disagree. This law has nothing unconstitutional, has any law that require valid ID to vote and Certificated of Citizenship in places where illegal immigrants can have an State ID

As you can see President Obama has not problem. "surprise" me that people from the left, who called themselves more educated.

After you make a statement that doesn't even make sense? "President Obama has not problem?"

"Federal Election Commission records for 'Obama for America' show that the lobby organization has paid international law firm Perkins Coie exactly $1,352,378.95 since the 2008 election."

You dont spend that kind of money to hide something that you supposedly already showed

And where are his college transcripts?

I heard a few years ago that his REAL birth certificate has his religion posted as muslim on it and thats why he doesnt want to show it.

FedupwithFed - take a look at your own birth certificate! Does it note your religion? No? Duh! Your religion isn't noted on your BIRTH CERTIFICATE! Eeesh!

Z from AZ,

I am not a citizen of Arizona, so as far as I am concerned they can do what they want in their state. But somehow you expect praise and an endorsement of this law as something that is important and legitimate. You are incredibly disingenuous. So you just want the facts? Your persistence and insistence betrays your real motives. I carry with me, along with my passport, a Certification of Birth from the State of Pennsylvania. I do not have my original birth certificate, nor do I know where it is. My certificate does not have a physician's signature. But it is an official document from Pennsylvania. However, according to you, I don't meet the criteria of being born in the U.S. Even though my Certification of Birth was sufficient to obtain my passport, I don't meet your criteria, and now possibly Arizona's. I don't ever remember this being in an issue in any other election I observed in my 54 years. So now, we just want to be sure as the fair thing to do? And it just happens to come up during President Obama's term of office?

Here is my problem with the law. It is unnecessary. It is a waste of time for one state to insist on documentation to be used once every four years. It has no redeeming value other than to give Arizona legislators, Republican ones, election credibility with a narrow group of voters. Otherwise it serves no useful purpose. Arizona was admitted to the union in 1912. Why didn't the Arizona Legislature add this piece of legislation during the first 99 years of their statehood?

The reason we see this legislation now is not to protect the law or an important principle. It is pandering to a select group of voters. Your thinly veiled statement is disingenuous at best. "I've said it before, I'm not a birther. But I am someone who makes sure I get my facts straight before I present them, and I'm quick to comment when someone is incorrect. Don't pass off something as fact if it's merely an unofficial statement." I don't believe you.

His document's are official. This law is unnecessary.

Its the self-proclaimed know-it-all (a.k.a. idiot) saying "whaaat? I didn't do nottin! Its just an innocent law!" with the same old wrinkled forehead I-can't-help-it look. Are you kidding me? I am so sick of that "look" they give when they're about to screw us.

The law is unnecessary and conflictive. We have federal laws requiring citizenship already. Waste of time. Plays to their "base".

So would they in Arizona NOT have accepted a Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii that was provided and certified by the appropriate authority?

The Arizona state government is a joke... a real shame... a great many good people live there.

Some nut up the line wants to see his college transcripts. He was the President of Harvard's Law Review. What next? Wanna watch him have sex with his wife? Insanity has no boundaries.

I had thought of possibly living in Arizona but now there's no way I would want to be part of that state. Jan Brewer has dementia and the Tea Partiers in that state are some of the worst. That's one of the places I heard the Koch Bros hold their training seminars to train the Tea Partiers to go after the Democrats.

What a crap hole.

The article said the last judgement was up to the states secretary of state. So the secretary of state could be just as moronic as the birthers and no matter what evidence was provided, as in this case, s/he could deny the name on the ballot, no matter how conclusive the evidence.

Are we going to have all 50 states decide their own qualifications for Presidency

I never said any of that. The eligibility requirements for obtaining a passport or obtaining U.S. Citizenship are different than the eligibility requirements for becoming the President of the United States.

Would that be passing false information?

And just because you don't have in your possession your original birth certificate does not mean that you don't have access to it. It's somewhere.

If you truly couldn't find it, and it was literally lost forever somewhere, my guess is that, well, you couldn't be president, because you couldn't meet the burden of proof. Now that's legally. Realistically, I think people will understand.

However, when there are shady windows of weeks or even days in which you were in a different country, and otherwise would not have been considered U.S. born (your mother and/or father did not meet the physical requirements for you to inherit citizenship at birth), it gets much more unrealistic to take someone at their word. Wouldn't you agree?

Z--you posted up the line that the 9th Circuit was a bunch of Liberals--in spite that they are all Republican appointees. You're just making stuff up on the fly.

Look, this is a waste of time, and the people of Arizona will have that pushed up their noses when Obama appears on the ballot next year. In the mean time, how about doing something about jobs? Maybe we can tighten restrictions on HB1 visas! Why are we bringing in so many people from other countries to work in our development centers, when our own unemployement is so high?

What this bill does is essentially reallocate the ability to determine one's qualifications for Presidency and ballot placement from the federal government to the Arizona Secretary of State. This power to determine Presidential legitimacy is a power reserved to the federal government as explicitly said in the Constitution in Article II, section 5, clause 1.

A state cannot determine if these qualification have been met, that is reserved to the federal government...

sandritch, no, I posted that the 9th Circuit is out of San Francisco, which is arguably the most radically liberal city in the country.

Unless you can quote me differently.

ONE DOWN 49 TO GO

Z--I named the Justices that made the decision. That court covers many states--even Alaska. The Judges are Republican appointees. BTW--the 9th circuit meets in several different states. It's a panel of 3 judges--all Republican's. Just read the facts and stop BS ing.

one more thing , why would you spend 2 million on court fees if you had a birth certificate ???

Z

I would take the word of officials from Hawaii and the legal document they provided.

I do not have access to the original document. But I have access to Pennsylvania's legal document which they issued to me. It is no less legal according the rules of that state. It is official and recognized by other states and the federal government. Suppose there was a fire and all the original documents for a state were lost. Would that make all citizens from that state ineligible to run for office? It would not. There are multiple ways to establish one is a "naturalized" citizen.

And why we are at it, the Constitution does not establish the legal burden of proof. I guess the founders expected people to be reasonable.

Thug--If I sue someone in court, they have to defend themselves--correct? It doesn't matter how frivolous, anyone can sue for anything. Bottom line---he won. Now--take those meds.

It is really and truly amazing how many ways one group of people can repeatedly find new and bizarre ways to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that you simply cannot fix stupid.

And yet there's an overwhelming majority of Democratic nominees sitting right now. The court has a consistent liberal bias toward any case they hear. Cases from Arizona are always held in San Francisco (which is their headquarters) as well as cases from most other regions they preside over. It's not BS, that's just the way judicial activism and politically motivated appointments work.

if i was Arizona , CALIFORNIA WOULD HAVE LESS ELECTRICITY

It's pretty depressing to see right-wingers collapsing posts that are actually not offensive at all - just opposite viewpoints.

Being a conservative myself, I'm ashamed. Scream for free-speech yet within minutes the very-same people censor the viewpoints of others.

Pathetic.

This law has nothing unconstitutional, has any law that require valid ID to vote and Certificated of Citizenship in places where illegal immigrants can have an State ID

That is an interesting point. Many states have laws stating that you have to prove you are a citizen in order to vote. So basically, it is the case that you must prove you are a citizen to vote, but do not have to prove you are a citizen. to run in the states without the this Arizonia law

"The 9th Circuit upholds stay on Arizona's immigration law
By Jennifer Rubin
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in U.S. vs. Arizona today affirmed in its entirety the lower court's decision preventing implementation of that state's immigration law. As I have believed from the get-go and as the appellate court found, federal law preempts the state's effort to regulate immigration.

Conservatives may pooh-pooh this as the work of a liberal court that is frequently reversed by the Supreme Court. So I will focus on the concurrence by Judge John Noonan, a respected conservative judge (not to mention a former law professor of mine.) His opinion, I would suggest, is compelling and should cause conservatives to rethink their fondness for state solutions to a federal problem.

Noonan wrote at the onset:

I write separately to emphasize the intent of the statute and its incompatibility with federal foreign policy."

All the state is doing is guaranteeing that pre-existing and constitutional federal law is followed/enforced. Absolutely nothing unconstitutional or crazy about that. It's about darn time we try to hold the federal gov't accountable. If the feds would do it's job in the first place, these type of proposals wouldn't be necessary.

Sigh... You just can't fix stupid.

So I guess we need to duplicate ALL our laws in ALL the states because we just CANNOT trust ANY federal court to do the RIGHT thing. Only STATES have non-political judicial systems to decide EVERY legal issue for us. What a laugh.

I thought SOME of us were for less government. I guess it's every state's right to build a virtual wall around itself if not a physical one.

Just plain stupid.

Good morning wing nuts! (both sides)

Obama is hiding something; he did run on a platform of transparency. I would love to see his college records? It really doesnt matter though because if rev wright and bill ayers didnt stop him from being elected I doubt the liberal socialist manifestos in his college works would have stopped it either?

Thats what liberals want---socialism and wealth redistribution; better known in the dim lib party of low IQ voters as buying votes with other peoples money(class warfare) and scare tactics against women on the single issue of abortion as their other primary issue....classy, I must say.

If his mom had him in kenya and manage to fix it and have him documented to be born in the usa but mistakenly listed him as a muslim---congratulations--she did it and got away with it as far as i'm concern............ it does not matter now.

So who cares.....next election they will have to prove it---I can assure you that will be the case from now on.

And that is when obama will show it---- its part of his reelection propaganda to rub it in the birthers faces---which i'm ok with...as long as he loses the election.

Wow, you people started early this morning. LOL.

Plain and simple, states have the right to have their own laws as long as they comply with the Constitution of the United STATES of America. The states ARE NOT BOUND by Federal law. No where in the Constitution does it say that.

I'm for any law that prevents illegals from being in this country, voting, or holding any political office.

Illegals take too much of my tax money from my kids.

If you support illegals you are a traitor plain and simple. You are supporting law breakers, it wouldn't be any different then if you harbored a murderer. Breaking the law is breaking the law period.

Ive got an idea! A law should be passed that to vote, you must pass an IQ test with at least a score of 110! That would easily take care of most of the bigots and idiots who are clueless about things like what the "Bush Doctrine" is - what "Cap and Trade" is - the history of Unions and how the working men who first attempted to unionize were martyred hereos, many killed by thugs hired by rich business owners - about things like what the Cuban missile crisis was, etc. These twits - a good 30-40 percent of the nation - rant and rave, but are woefully ignorant of thier own positions in society and the history of this country. They are more worried about skin color and "my team is better than your team" thinking. They confuse Liberty with foreign occupation. These people are TOOLS. Literally, tools - used and manipulated by the true elites - the corporatocracy - the obscenely rich - the conservatives - the warmongers. They are easily whipped into a rabid froth on things they havent even bothered to research themselves. And Arizona is FULL of them. People who think if they wear a big belt buckle and a cowboy hat, they are AMERICANS and are fighting for TRUTH LIBERTY AND THE AMERICAN WAY, DAGNABBIT! Go back to watching Ponderosa reruns and stop enabling the corporatocracy and the kleptocracy destroying this contry by way of your votes for the likes of Boehner and Cantor.

It is nice to see those liberals crying like baby's about Obama's birth certificated , when the same people question Mc.Cain legitimacy because he born in Panama Canal. Pathetic!!

Don't make this a conservative issue, oskar. Thinking conservatives think birthers are idiots too. And that is because they actually are.

"Hi, I am from Arizona, state of the Moron. Where we hate illegal immigrants because they are better educated before they cross the border than we are here, living in this state. And we hate law in general. Please, please invade us."

I propose that for the new state motto.

Repeat: Birthers are NOT conservative. They are simply angry, dumb, and don't believe in facts. However, they do get to vote in this country, and will remind you of it, even if their vote doesn't matter one bit.

glw-321945

FEDUP - This statement is what the problem is!

TOO BAD! It SHOULD insult Americans that he REFUSES to show it! It's IN the constitution!

I’m not saying he is or isn’t…but wouldn’t it just make life easier to release the REAL one and put it to rest instead of fighting to keep it hidden?

Had this been charged against Bush, you would be ALL over it and you damn well KNOW it!

But because it’s Obama and he is black…free pass? NOT!! You can't cherry pick the constitution! I dont care if he is purple!

AMERICAN FOR iSRAEL states,"If you support illegals you are a traitor plain and simple. You are supporting law breakers, it wouldn't be any different then if you harbored a murderer." You are fertile ground for the seed of birtherism! Should we execute people that hire someone without checking their papers? Of course, we should!!!!!! THey're as bad as murderers!!!!!!

@MANFROMNANTUCKET - the t shirt is a good idea but a dunce cap would be more appropriate - or maybe a beanie copter.

I find it fascinating that liberals are so upset that a state DARES to pass a law requiring the fedral government to abide by it's own rules, be they immigration or election laws, and then have the unmitigated gall to twist the facts and claim that others, be they conservatives or independatnts, have a problem with the fedral laws!

The problem is that the fed's are not, with immigration, and may not, with the election, be doing thier jobs. Go Arizona! The only state in the union with the balls to hold the feds accountable!

The rest of you make great political zombies.

Why is this such a big deal? I had to show my birth certificate this year to start my new job, surely it should be a requisite for the most important job in the United States.

off topic i know and i apologize for it, but i felt one of my fellow americans needed some extra info so they can be mad at the right people.

American for Israel wrote: "Illegals take too much of my tax money from my kids."

Direct U.S. Aid to Israel (millions of dollars)

2005 = 2612.15 / 2006 = 2534.53 / 2007 = 2500.24 / 2008 = 2423.8

wrmea.org/component/content/article/245-2008-november/3845-congress-watch-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-direct-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html

now i cant be 100% sure, since there is no real way to determine how much the evil illegals are stealing from your children, but im pretty sure our blind support of a nation that no longer needs it is takeing more away from your children then the evil brown man!

Being native-born as a requirement to hold the office of President is already part of the Constitution. How else are they going to know someone's been born here if they're not checking the birth certificates?

That said, this law is more a CYA than anything, the way I see it. If it's required to show proof of citizenship before even running for Prez, the conspiracy theorists can't really say that no one knows for sure where the person was born.

Well.. I guess the completely irrational ones still could but the law makes a great rebuttal as to why they'd be wrong.

Have the Birthers provided the Kenyan long form birth certificate for President Obama?

And if not, why? And they better not say it's not available to the public. That one didn't work for them, remember?

Ever notice that the same people that don't want Arizona to check the legal status of people also don't want them to check the eligibility of the candidates Arizona prints on their ballots?

ARE YOU ELIGIBLE TO BE HERE?

ARE YOU ELIGIBLE TO RUN FOR AN OFFICE?

Those are very reasonable questions.

I don't understand what the problem is. The law says you have to be a natural born citizen to be president. What is the problem with checking this before someone is allowed to run for presidency. If I want to be a doctor I have to show proof that I am eligible and qualified for that position. I do not think this is an attack on Obama. His election brought up a flaw in our system. We fixed the flaw, that's it. I don't care what documents anyone produces as long as they are what is required for any american citizen to prove their status. Once again I am proud of AZ they take on the hard subjects no other crooked politicians will touch. Yet people complain nothing is being done. Whether you agree with them or not at least be glad they aren't making empty promises and collecting a check for doing nothing.

All I want, is to ensure the Constitution of the US is adhered to. It's so amazing how AZ is riling up the liberals. The name calling and minimizing is rampant, meaning the liberals have been gotten to. Even the liberals from AZ are up in arms.

I can understand why the liberals are so defensive. The government is always honest, always forthcoming and always transparent, under a democrat adminstration, didn't ya know? There is NO WAY they could put anything over the liberals... the liberals are so smart and in tune with all things at all times. Liberals believe anything a liberal president says and anything else coming from other liberals... My goodness, in the liberal mind, anything conservative is like drinking battery acid. I'd say the liberals are so open minded and objective. They would never question a "PROVEN" document, especially when it has anything to do with their worshipful master.

WHAT?? Question anything Obama does or says? If you do, there will be hell to pay!! If you question anything he does, you are automatically a racist! Even if the person doing the questioning supports someone like Allen West.

Liberals HATE IT when the Constitution gets followed to the letter. They think its a 'living' document.

td3K...That's pretty much what I was saying.

People just don't read.

FedupwithFed

"Federal Election Commission records for 'Obama for America' show that the lobby organization has paid international law firm Perkins Coie exactly $1,352,378.95 since the 2008 election."

You dont spend that kind of money to hide something that you supposedly already showed

Sowhat was McCain hiding? His legal fees paid during the same time period were $1.46 million. Why was that not a problem?

Somehow comprehending the whole, or the rest of the story is just out of the question, huh?

Again, I don't like any politicians because there's not an honest one out there. But believing propaganda crap from either side, then spreading it tells me you are no better than any of them.

Tad S's comment

What amazes me is the arrogance of Rep. Ruben Gallego, he should probably be censored in my opinion. Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Phoenix, said he was embarrassed. "Arizona is the first state to pass a birther bill. We look pretty much backward," Gallego said. "You might as well change Arizona to Alabama." - What an arrogant piece of dung. The governor of Alabama should demand an apology. Sounds to me like he was trying to infer that everyone in Alabama is a backwoods, racist, hillbilly, and that being from Alabama is embarrassing.

Really Tad? Really? Time for your pill

Why is there such a big fuss about AZ on this blog?

All presidential candidates have been called on to produce proof as required by the constitution that they are eligible to run for the office so what AZ is doing isn't illegal or even unusual. Each individual state also has special requirements a presidential candidate has to meet in order to be on their state ballot.

No big deal.

What a complete waste of time and money. It has already been verified by both parties, and they still waste their time making a bill for it. Pathetic.

Although there is one good thing about birthers . . . by being a birther they let everyone know they are stupid. It's like a giant sign they wear around their neck that says, "I'm a moron." This sign lets us know who is not capable of rationale thought.

Personally, I am waiting for their next ridiculous conspiracy. We already have the, "those newspaper announcements were a conspiracy so that we would all think he was a citizen" (apparently his parents knew their baby would be President one day). But what will the next theory be? I'm guessing the birthers will start claiming that there was a clone of Obama, created in a test tube in Hawaii at the same time. That way, the real Obama was born in Kenya and the clone was born in Hawaii. *facepalm*

I have to say that my children, born in KY in the late 90's, have the same type if birth certificate that Obama has. Maybe they need to prove their citizenship too. Wonder what they are hiding??? They are almost teenagers. I am sure it is something.

The other thing I have to say is.... all of you that believe Obama was born somewhere else prove it. What did his mother do, walk to Kenya? She must have taken a plane or something. Show us the passport showing the travel during that time. And don't quote a misunderstanding from Obama's step grandma. If you listen to the entire interview she clearly states he was born in the USA.

I want to see proof of a plane ticket to Kenya and a passport stamp. I certainly know if I had been pregnant and 19 years old I would have traveled to Kenya to have my baby. Great medical care they have there. Especially 50 years ago.

Well it's official. Arizonans are now the punchline of a sick joke. No matter how much proof to the contrary, no matter how completely idiotic they look, they continue their ridiculously laughable claim that the President of the United States is not an American, Just when you thought the politics of hate couldn't get any worse, that some folks just couldn't get any more blinded to common sense...we've got the birthers to remind us of just how easy it is to get such simple minds to believe just about anything rather than admit the painfully obvious: they just hate the guy and will stop at nothing...nothing...to try to justify that hate.

FEDUP - Maybe you just can't read???

He has shown it and passed any citizenship obligation, OR HE WOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT!

AND YOU DID SAY HE DID NOT SHOW IT: your exact words from above post!!!

TOO BAD! It SHOULD insult Americans that he REFUSES to show it! It’s IN the constitution!

BUSH has nothing to do with this.....WMD - yeah right......LOL

My God Arizona is making fools of themselves. How embarrassing that their elected leaders choose this to waste time on with their economy in the tank.

Its like they are throwing a tantrum.

"If we cant show hatred for the Mexicans, gays or Muslims we will direct it at the president with nonsense bills."

Arizona is becoming the embarrassment of America.

....or at least running neck and neck with Alabama.

Its just pathetic at this point.

Hey Arizona lawmakers......make sure you include ANY CITY or STATE elected position in your bill.

For those who oppose this legislation, I would recommend you take a look at residing in other countries.

Its not like Obama came into office and said "hey, let's open up our borders". The problems have been with us since the statehoods of all our border states and it has been just as difficult for all presidents. Lines were drawn between families, friends, and peoples and there;s been a free-flow of people over the border forever.

The facts are that the federal laws aren't working, in spite of increased border patrols and attention.

The problem is that too many people want to make this simple when it is not and Obama's fault when it is not... neither of which will drive real solutions.

The pressure on the south side of the border is so great that there is a virtual vacuum on the north side. Until the repression in the south and drug trafficking on both sides are addressed, the flow will continue.

Arizona is acting out of frustration, but the answer is much broader than just deporting or shooting everyone involved. We would have to make conditions in the north worse than the conditions in the south to stop this by ourselves... not something anyone would want.

RU...I don't know how many times I have to say this, but a "Certificate of Live Birth" (as is shown in the photo, and passed of as a birth certificate) is NOT a certified birth certificate.

Actually, yes, that's exactly what it is, because the state of Hawaii, which produced it, says so. Over, and over and over again.

I've said it before, I'm not a birther.

Actually, yes, based on the first statement above, that's exactly what you are. Own it.

The Legislator's of AZ go off half cocked again. This has to be the nuttiest State in the Union. My condolence to my friends living in AZ, good luck with the circumcision thing. Next they will be required to drop trousers to see if they measure up.

I get pissed off every time someone brings up the fact that it's not a birth certificate but a certificate of live birth. Guess what?? My son was born in Iowa in 2005 and his birth certificate right at the top says "Certificate of Live Birth". Get over it people and move on to something relevant.

ANDY - As for the "Mexicans".....

It is not Hatred.....it is "WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE WORD ILLEGAL"???

I have lived in AZ for 40 years - Have many "Latino" Friends...it's that ILLEGAL part that we do not like!!!

How would you like to send $200,000,000 to us every year to pay for these peoples health care? Maybe you would like to send another $200,000,000 to take care of all the "A-N-C-H-O-R-E Babies" they leave for the citizens of AZ to take care of??? Or maybe you'd like to send you SS card down here so some of these ILLEGALS can use it to obtain a job, that a CITIZEN could be working at ???

Before you jump on the Band Wagon yelling at us so called BIGOTS.....get the freaken story straight!!!

Signed; A "LEGAL", Tax Paying US Citizen...........

lyn,

No need to get pizzed. It's not a Birth Certificate. It's a reasonable facsimile. Unless it's a forgery, which I doubt. 'Birth Certificates' typically say, as they do in Hawaii, CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH. Facsimilies issued later typically say either CERTIFICATION OF BIRTH, or as they do in Hawaii, CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH.

That's why your son's says 'Certificate,' not 'Certification.' I know, it's a small distinction. But it is also an important one. The first is the 'Original.' The second is only to denote an original exists.

Is it unnecessarily splitting hairs? Maybe. Was Obama born in Hawaii, as his 'released' paperwork shows? Probably.

Hawaii officials claim to have seen and examined the very original paper, which they say is on file in their Health Department Records. A serious matter were they lying. An ex-Hawaii Employee (Honolulu Election Supervisor, Tim Adams) has now sworn out an affidavit testifying there is no such Original Hawaii Birth Certificate for President Obama on file there. That's a serious charge if he is lying because he knows there is, or just wrong because he believes there isn't but there actually is.

President Obama can put the issue to rest by releasing his Birth Certificate, assuming as I do that it indeed exists. But he has so far refused. Until he does we can only speculate as to why he won't. And those guesses are going to run the gamut from not existing to existing but containing some bit of info that he just doesn't want known.

I'm not a 'birther.' Honestly, nor am I a political supporter of the POTUS. I do believe the ball is in his court.

@American for Israel:

"Plain and simple, states have the right to have their own laws as long as they comply with the Constitution of the United STATES of America. The states ARE NOT BOUND by Federal law. No where in the Constitution does it say that."

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding"

Article Six. States ARE bound by federal law.

ahere's more from the "patriotic" tea party who keep telling us they are not racist.

Orange County Republican Party Member Circulates Racist E-mail Targeted At President Obama.

This week Marilyn Davenport, a Southern California Tea Party activist and member of the central committee of the Orange County Republican Party circulated what some are calling hate e-mail to an unknown number of her fellow conservatives.

Written under the words, “Now you know why — No birth certificate!”, is an Obama family portrait depicting his parents as chimpanzees

Jeff P14 (#1.122)

What this bill does is essentially reallocate the ability to determine one's qualifications for Presidency and ballot placement from the federal government to the Arizona Secretary of State. This power to determine Presidential legitimacy is a power reserved to the federal government as explicitly said in the Constitution in Article II, section 5, clause 1.

A state cannot determine if these qualification have been met, that is reserved to the federal government...

That's pretty good. I wonder how many people bothered to question your citation of a nonexistant section? Your post illustrates my main concern about Americans. Too many people are willing to accept some credible sounding statement as fact without bothering to check for themselves. I see so much mininforation and untruth posted on these forums that it really concerns me that people are so easily convinced.

Arizona's gone batty. My step son's birth certificate from Hawaii looks just like the one of Obama's I saw online. I don't think Hawaii issues anything else.

Gee, that must mean John McCain couldn't be president either since he was NOT born in the US, but in Panama.

Arizona has officially gone coo-coo.

The law is obviously unconstitutional under the Full Faith and Credit clause, with one state deferring to judgment within the jurisdiction of other states, with birth being a prime example.

How else can the country operate? Fifty different state determinations on the eligibility of a Presidential candidate?

With all the chaos over immigration, college guns and now birther Tourist Campaign, they should draw the rich far-right very successfully. they've got golf courses. Maybe Donald Trump could start one there. It will be The Best.

@Dave-2550157

I literally pulled out a copy of the constitution......

cswella: Judges are bound to those laws "..and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby"

MrPink111

So this guy, Rep - Ruben Gallego, basically says that every person born, or living in Alabama is a degenerate hillbilly and you're OK with that? So if Haley Barbour says he's going to run for President to shut down the KFC they just opened across the street you'd be OK with that too? It's the same thing. Both comments are rife with prejudice, and have no place in intelligent conversation. The difference is one was hypothetical, and the other actually happened. Really, if anyone needs a pill, it'd be prejudiced people like yourself.

Isn't John McCain and Kyle from Arizona and Bush from Texas, doesn't those two States alone make up the majority of the Us Mexico boarder?

If illegal immigartion is really as troubling as they are making it to be why didn't these three men get together and fix this problem once and for all when they had full control of the government?

Joe:

I hate to burst your bubble but to be EXACT they say:

for my son born Jan of 2005:

Certification of Birth

State of Iowa

Iowa Department of Public Health

for my son born Oct. of 2009:

State of Iowa Certification of Vital Record

State of Iowa

Certificate of Live Birth

So one says "certification" and the other says "certificate". Both are the original, blue, stamped with the seal of approval official documents.

What now? These continued birther arguments are becoming more and more delusional and stupid.

Nullification is a wonderful concept. Don't ya think? It sounds like you need to start reading lewrockwell.com.

And yes, a single state can do what Arizona is doing. There are many ways to enforce constitutional law. Even if a majority of the people disagree.

No, the constitution leaves issues federal candidacy solely in the hands of the federal government. End of discussion.

Yes, they can do this. They're not banning anyone from running for the U.S. presidency; they are merely determining whose name can appear on ballots in their state. Other states have other rules about who can appear on their ballots. On election years, presidential candidates are often banned from the debates if they don't appear on enough state ballots to theoretically win the election anyway. Can you imagine if states had to print the names of every Tom, Dick and Harry who ran for president? There are hundreds, maybe thousands of candidates no one has ever heard of, and printing them all would make for a very long ballot. The only reason there is outrage over this particular requirement is because of the disagreement over Obama's citizenship. If such a bill were proposed 5 years ago, it wouldn't even be news.

A candidate not on Arizona's ballot could theoretically still win that state by write-ins.

Thanks for the replies. So, what you are really saying is the Repubs have found another way to try and defeat Pres. Obama in 2012, by keeping him off the state's ballots.

I do not know if it is or is not Constitutional. I do know that it is driven by delusional conspiracy theorists.

Why does it not surprise me that this happened in the state where Jan Brewer is Governor.

Arizona has sought to discredit President Obama from day one when they refused to give him the honorary doctorate that the have given every standing president.At every turn they have disrespected him. You wonder why he was given the peace prize? It had nothing to do with war and every thing to do with how he has responded to the triads of disrespect since he has taken office the world has noted that he has responded in peace. You wonder if all the nuclear testing that was done in Arizona could be responsible for the lunacy that seem to permeate from there. Now they seek to destroy his presidency by refusing to allow people to vote for him in the next election because they are truly having trouble finding viable candidates to oppose him. I guess that's why the palins are moving to town so they can be part of this disdain

JLM-268998 - Yes, they can do this.

Doubtful - it's almost certainly unconstitutional on several levels. Hawaii alone determines the citizenship of persons born in Hawaii, not Arizona. Hawaii alone determines what vital records forms it will use, in conformance with CDC regulations. If Hawaii says Obama is a citizen, Arizona can't second guess that without violating the US constitution. Nor can any state impose eligibility requirements on federal candidates.

It's likely a violation of full faith & credit, the 14th Amendment, and the supremacy clause.

This throws me for a loop to know this is a political one up for the Republican led Arizona. As Michelle stated, this bill is created to try to keep President Obama off the 2012 ticket...Why wasn't it created 5 years ago, 4 years ago, heck even 2 years ago? Why all of a sudden right before the 2012 election this state finds the bright light and decides it should do this? This is why McCain didn't win! First it was MLK Day, then the so call "Minutemen" Club, and now this?

Again I say the Republicans cant stumach a Black Democrat in the oval office. You would think we would be beyond this by now, but leave it up to the republicans to drag us back 4 decades.

Someone commented that they have the right to hold an election anyway they want well then lets just boot that state from voting .... LOL

it to keep John McCain from running for president not Obama you fools

McCain was not born in the US look it up

All you constitutional experts on here need to read what REAL constitutional experts have already said regarding this type bill. It CANT BE DONE constitutionally. Yes, states can decide all kinds of things regarding elections, but they can not add too or subtract Federal law regarding the requirements to be Pres. Period. Not even the righwing-nuts who study Conts. law say this is constitutional.

Finally, this bill does nothing to keep Obama off the ticket because Hawaii has already certified his bc with a live birth and that is all that is required by Hawaii law and AZ has to agree. Again I ask.. where was this with Bush? Bush Sr.? Reagan? Nixon????

Barry - Moore...you might want to get yourself educated...plain and simple...

The US Government cannot force a state to place someone on the ballot for President if they have a state law that requires proof of citizenship. They are upholding the Constitution that states that the person running for President must be a U.S. Citizen. This isn't interpretation...the Federal Government CANNOT tell a state what to do unless it effects interstate commerce or National Defense or is against the Constitution. This is reinforcing the Constitution.

Are you people that are calling them racist even educated or moveon.org/code pink plants?

FormerSGT - I dont think you get it. This was never an issue until a Black man ran and won the Presidency. Then all the sudden everyone needs to see a birth certificate. Are you blind? Of course this has everything to do with race and the Republican racist attitude.

ARIZONA CANNOT ADD ANY REQUIREMENTS TO THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CITIZENSHIP LAID OUT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

What part of that is so impossible for you to understand, FormerSGT?

If that means "former sergeant", you took an oath to UPHOLD the Constitution. Remember?

The comment about McCain not being born in the US is correct and further more, my wife was born in Panama as well while her father was a Col. in the U.S. Army and she had to take the oath for naturalization when she was 17. They said that although she was born on US Territory, she was not a U.S. citizen. I had questioned whether that was true or not but apparently it is true. Was McCain naturalized and does anyone really care? If he was, he was ineligible to be President. Most importantly, what is with Arizona? Wisconsin and Arizona seem like fringe states. Bizarro World to say the least.

Boycott tourism to Arizona.

FACTCHECK - For you "Birthers" including Limbaugh, Palin, Trump, Beck, etc", visit this link to see President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth complete with Raised Seal. By the way, he was'nt born in Chicago.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

After you do, then wallow in "Your Own Ignorance and Stupidity" - ROFLMAO

Arizona wants to determine the eligibility for National candidates? Is this even constitutional?

Arizona is not asking to determine the eligibility for national candidates. They are simply asking that all candidate verify that they are eligible for the office for which they are running before Arizona will place them on the ballot. Many states have election laws that determine who can and cannot be placed on a ballot. For example, in many states, a third party candidate must have a petition with a certain number of signatures in order to be placed on the ballot. Much better to settle issues like this BEFORE an election rather than after.

As much as people try to sweep this whole thing under the rug, there are still many unanswered questions about who Obama really is. If you want some interesting reading, Google "Obama SSN" and you'll find that he uses a social security number issued from Connecticut, even though he never lived or resided there... There is much we don't know but should.

You do not vote for the president. States choose electors to send to the federal electoral college to elect the president. There is no US constitutional requirement that a state hold a popular election to choose its electors. It could be done by the state legislature.

Arizona is populated with nutjobs.

when willl they recall john McCain he was born in panama and has never been naturalized ... this makes him uneligable to hold his seat in congress ... recall the old maverick NOW and put him out to pasture ...better yet deport him to Panama

JLM-268998

Yes, they can do this. They're not banning anyone from running for the U.S. presidency; they are merely determining whose name can appear on ballots in their state.

Yeah - repubs are always so creative in voter suppression.

There should be. Otherwise the President is not elected by the popular vote of the people.

A great many people are loudly proclaiming that this [very stupid] law is, or is not Constitutional. Nobody has presented a specific clause which forbids it.

I haven't time now to look. But I'm sure somebody will find it, if it is there.

Gov. Jan Brewer was far less bothersome when she was looking for non-existent, decapitated bodies out in the desert. When you find something you're good at, you should stick to it.

Go Arizona....hold the federal government accountable, no one else is!

When someone's integrity is questioned the great leaders I know would quickly put the issue to rest as quickly as possible. I also know that folks who lie about something make the most noise possible and when finally caught, they dismiss it as if it weren't that big a deal. Not sure what Hussein's issue is...but I don't trust him.

And to those who only see thru racist glasses....it's not because of his skin color, it's because he is not trustworthy, doesn't have the experience or integrity required for the office, and most of all because he is arrogant and blind to his own shortcomings lacking any humility whatsoever. He's a tool...plain and simple.

There are experts in so many fields on the internet - on this board we obviously have a full crew of Constitutional lawyers - on another board there are multiple experts on nuclear science and cleaning up a reactor after a meltdown and on another there might be psychiatrists, anthropologists, seismologists or what have you - which leads me to believe that in order to save money we could just stop paying all these high price experts and whenever there's a problem we could find the solution on the internet - and because there always seem to be contention among all the experts - we could vote on it like on AMerican Idol. Over a period of time of course there would cease to be problems because everything would be done so perfectly.

Ranger S

Go Arizona....hold the federal government accountable, no one else is!

Go Arizona... show the country and world what kind of nut bags runs your legislature.

Thanks for the replies. So, what you are really saying is the Repubs have found another way to try and defeat Pres. Obama in 2012, by keeping him off the state's ballots.

Considering the GOP's current list of potential candidates, Obama won't NEED Arizona's votes to win.

John McCain's being born in Panama on a U.S. Military installation, to both parents being AMERICAN citizens is the difference. Even though he was born in Panama, he is a natural born American citizen. Obama's father was not an American citizen. I don't know how, or if, that figures into any debate, I'm just stating why there should be no question about McCains citizenship because of his birthplace.

I'm not a birther, but I can't help but wonder WHY Obama just doesn't show or provide his COMPLETE birth certificate and college records and be done with it. Paying lawyers to keep them secret is what rises suspicions. Why not just put them out there...Done deal. Stop the questions. Did he not, over and over during his campaign vow transparency in everything?? He has not kept that vow. Even those of us who want to believe him, his secrecey raises doubts.

Aggie-345886

I'm not a birther,

Yes you are.

but I can't help but wonder WHY Obama just doesn't show or provide his COMPLETE birth certificate

He satisfied the state department requirements for being an American citizen. If I were him - I would give you people the finger too.

MIKE-416

Go Arizona... show the country and world what kind of nut bags runs your legislature

Actually....Washington DC is the model for that particular comment....starting with the oval office.

Hodaka, 1974, my copy of the US Constitution is laying right by my laptop, so when you TP/Repubs start with the crap, I can fact check all the lies you tell.

Michele,

Arizona wants to determine the eligibility for National candidates? Is this even constitutional?

The short answer is "yes".

They not only have the right, they have the obligation to do so. Each state makes its own election laws. Except for some extra-Constitutional meddling by the Supreme Court and the Justice Department when people of favored ethnic groups don't get elected often enough, that has always been the case.

Economan,

So why did Arizona fail its obligation for the first 99 years of existence. It seems to me the legislators need to apologize to its citizens for failing to do their duty.

He's a tool...plain and simple.

The birther issue is pure hate. Nothing more. It's an effort to discredit the President of the United States of America through slander. meanwhile, we need a good JOBS bill. We need to lower the DEFICIT to ZERO and start paying down our DEBT.

Slander won't help this situation.

MICHELLE== At the present this is a free country if you don't like what Arizona wants to do (WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO CHINA)

Really Michelle, you have a copy of the Constitution right there? Then why ask a question you can answer yourself simply by reading it? Duh. Yes, it is a valid, constitutional law because it simply requires anyone running on a ballot in AZ to prove citizenship which is a requirement for, you guessed it, President! Oh, yes, and that is a CONSTITUTIONAL requirement, not an Arizona requirement.

And for the idiots on this and other strings saying it violates the 14th amendment, uh, no, it doesnt. It does not prevent equal rights to any group, it does not stop any one from a particular race or faith, or creed from running. It simply requires candidates to conform to the CONSTITUTIONAL requirement of being citizens. And furthermore, States control the election process, there is no Constitutional Federal control of the national elections, elections are run and controlled at the State level. The only Federal involvement is ensuring there is no discrimination in preventing candidates from running based on race, faith, etc...and the same applies to making sure that everyone of age can vote, thats it. The Electors selected by the citizens during a Presidential campaign (a State level function) is what finally decides the Presidential race.

Elle, I have just as many rights here as you do. I'm just grateful I don't live in Az.. Hopefully, the US will continue to be free, as long as the TP doesn't gain control of it, and try to force your extremist views on the rest of us.

The purpose of the law that a presidential candidate must be born in this country is that they may not have allegiance to another country to the detriment of the United States. I think President Obama has no intention of overthrowing our government with the help of Kenyan relatives.

Michelle, Please stay in the United States. However, don't assume that Arizona is doing this to thwart President Obama from being on the ballot in Arizona. Maybe they are closing a loop-hole which has existed but never came to light until now. I am not saying that President Obama is a Natural born citizen or not, because he is the child of US CItizen, he has EVERY right to run for and be elected President.

I did not vote for him, I do not like his politics or policies, but I do support the Office of the President no matter how distasteful the man.

the birth certificate was never an issue in the past because the past presidents must have had theirs

It was never an issue because there was never a question before. Whether liberals choose to intellectually admit it or not, there are at least quasi-legitimate questions here. Personally, I think it's good policy to require every candidate for every office to prove they meet the requirements. In my own city, we routinely get challenges AFTER the election that a candidate did not live within the district, etc. These are often brought by the losing candidate and sometimes they have merit. When this happens, then there is a quandry. If they just give the election to the loser, then everyone who voted for the winner is disenfranchised. Better to make sure of qualifications BEFORE votes are cast. If Arizona wants to require proof of citizenship for presidential candidates, then that's certainly their right. Arizona is recognizing that the feds are not always concerned about upholding federal law, so the state must take it upon themselves if it is to happen.

Yes, it is written in the constitution.

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution sets the principal qualifications one must meet to be eligible to the office of president. A president must:

• be a natural born citizen of the United States;^[27]

Good morning wing nuts! (both sides)

Obama is hiding something; he did run on a platform of transparency. I would love to see his college records? It really doesnt matter though because if rev wright and bill ayers didnt stop him from being elected I doubt the liberal socialist manifestos in his college works would have stopped it either?

Thats what liberals want---socialism and wealth redistribution; better known in the dim lib party of low IQ voters as buying votes with other peoples money(class warfare) and scare tactics against women on the single issue of abortion as their other primary issue....classy, I must say.

If his mom had him in kenya and manage to fix it and have him documented to be born in the usa but mistakenly listed him as a muslim---congratulations--she did it and got away with it as far as i'm concern............ it does not matter now.

So who cares.....next election they will have to prove it---I can assure you that will be the case from now on.

And that is when obama will show it---- its part of his reelection propaganda to rub it in the birthers faces---which i'm ok with...as long as he loses the election.

actual a ceertificate of live birth is proof enough to get clearance in the miltary and a miltary passport which is bit harder to get the rest of them

CASE CLOSED...The GOP HI Gov. has certified Obama's HI birth after spending millions on an investigation. The HI paper put out a birth announcement the week of his birth. CASE CLOSED... I'm a Christian Conservative too... Not a liberal.. Look at all my comments on my profile page ...

This discussion demonstrates why this country is in deep trouble. The vast majority of you have no knowledge of the constitution, yet make ridiculous statements that have absolutely no basis in fact. You vote the same way that you post. That is, you don't bother to actually study a candidate's platform or learn about the issues. You vote for the person for whom the media tell you to vote.

How can this country possibly compete in the world when it's citizens are so blissfully content in their ignorance that they are completely unwilling to set down the remote and stop watching mindless reality TV in favor of actually learning something?

If Obama was born here, why are the Liberal's so scared of this legislation?

Just like the Arizona immigration issue, it is the same standard as the Federal one.

But what we learned is that there is no court or legislature that certifies candidate eligibility.

Shouldn't our candidates be certified eligible?

Most discussions (and the articles that are written) on MSNBC boards are indicative that this country is in deep trouble. So what....do you think that anyone will change based on that? Nope...not likely.

I wonder... how would these rebel states take it after an election and the person they struck from their ballots won the Presidency anyways? What would their response and actions be after the inauguration... rebellion?

This is constitutional. Why? Because the constitution specifically gives to states the duty to conduct elections for federal office. There is no federal statute that any presidential candidate must comply with to prove his/her qualifications for the office. These details are left to the states.

This is not a birther bill, but rather seeks to end this stupid birther debate. Obama was born in the USA I think, refuses to prove it (he doesn't have to and it helps inflame his opponents), and now Arizona, by passing this first-of-it's-kind law, can end this debate. Either Obama will produce the proof his opponents want, and make them appear to be the fools I think they are, or he won't, and his opponents will be vindicated. Obama would have to seek reelection at that point admitting, in a political sense, he is not a citizen. Would Americans knowingly vote for someone not constitutionally allowed to be president, at that point?

Given most of the above posts I think yes. The level if constitutional ignorance on the one hand, and outright disdain for it on the other, among our leftist friends, is incredible. Again, I think Obama IS a natural born citizen, and I fully respect his right to not prove it. Arizona has every right to make him, and EVERY candidate, prove it. And in doing so has ended this stupid issue. Yet you moronic liberals can't comprehend the favor they just did for us all in Arizona. Why am I not surprised?

Rich...right on the money. thanks.

tomivento,

So why did Arizona fail its obligation for the first 99 years of existence.

As far as I know, Arizona has determined the eligibility of all its candidates ever since before statehood was granted.

Until 2008, the question of being a natural born citizen never came up. (By the way, there was some question about John McCain, too. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone.)

Now that the question has arisen, the other states should probably be asking the same question. There's nothing (except common sense) to stop a state from electing electors to the Electoral College who wish to vote for someone who is ineligible to be president. However, their votes would be wasted if they actually voted for an ineligible candidate.

Barry-Moore, your arguement will have more validity when you learn how to spell and speak.

I guess people are afraid now that Obama will not win because of Arizona. I hope all states pass this law so we don't have people voted in that aren't American citizens.

From the article...

"It's a fringe issue in my view, and it's going to cause people to look again at Arizona and say what's all this craziness going on there," said Democratic Rep. Daniel Patterson of Tucson, an opponent of the bill.

Bingo!

Rep. Ruben Gallego, D-Phoenix, said he was embarrassed, the Republic reported.

Rightly so!

"Arizona is the first state to pass a birther bill. We look pretty much backward," Gallego said. "You might as well change Arizona to Alabama."

Ohhh.... not good...

You shouldn't express shame at one stereotype, while reincforcing another stereotype against others... I'm quite sure that there are plenty of smart, decent, forward thinking people in Alabama.... right....? Hello....?

Yes - the state of Arizona IS the stupidest state in the US. Susan - you've totally proved my point- you are from AZ, right???

Go ahead Arizona, why don't you say right now that he will not be on your ballot? No document that is ever produced will meet your criteria. Remember that Lincoln did not make it onto the ballot in a number of southern states in 1860. Is the south up for this again?

For those questioning the difference between McCain being born in the Panama Canal as opposed to the allegation that Obama was born in Kenya.

McCain was born on a US military base to parents who were both US citizens, this makes him a natural born citizen.

If he had been born on a military base to a father who was a citizen and a mother who was not, he would have had dual citizenship, upon turning 18, he would have had to declare his citizen ship to one country or the other, but he would still be a natural born citizen.

If he had born in France, with one parent who was a citizen of the US, living there by choice, and one parent who was a French citizen, he would still have had dual citizenship and had to declare a country at 18, but he would not have been a natural born citizen. This is the claim being made by people who question Obama's birth. If he was born in Kenya, to a parent who was a citizen of the US who chose to go to Kenya on her own and a parent who was not a citizen of the US, he is not a natural born citizen.

I have not found anything that would doubt a certificate of live birth as not being a factual birth certificate or that would imply Obama is not a legal US citizen. With that being said, I do believe all candidates, for both President and Vice President, should have to prove their citizenship prior to making a bid for presidency.

As for the person who said McCain should be recalled from his current seat, it is completely irrelevant, because he is a natural citizen, but you do not have to be a natural born citizen to be a Senator or Representative.

Ranger S - clearly from AZ. The ignorance of your comments and your use of President Obama's middle name to refer to him shows a total lack of education as well as respect. How sad acting so small makes some people feel bigger.

Actually it IS constitutional. The wording and requirements mirror the standard procedure one must follow to obtain a passport in this country. So if it is constitutional to get a passport then its constitutional to run for office.

I LOVE Arizona, best move out of 29 I ever made and no, I am not crazy. I just happen to agree and side with what this state is trying to do. Someone has to be the leader, to get the ball rolling so this country can get back to its roots.

Rich-281385 - This is constitutional. Why? Because the constitution specifically gives to states the duty to conduct elections for federal office. There is no federal statute that any presidential candidate must comply with to prove his/her qualifications for the office. These details are left to the states.

Wrong. Not only is it a violation of full faith & credit, it would unconstitutionally exclude many natural born citizens.....including those not born in hospitals, those whose vital records are missing due to natural disaster, and many of those whose vital records were issued before this silly AZ law yet don't meet the new requirement.

Moreover, there's an existing SCOTUS ruling on this issue - McPherson v Blacker:

In short, the appointment and mode of appointment of electors belong exclusively to the states under the Constitution of the United States. They are, as remarked by MR. JUSTICE GRAY in In re Green, 134 U. S. 377, 134 U. S. 379,

"no more officers or agents of the United States than are the members of the state legislatures when acting as electors of federal Senators, or the people of the states when acting as the electors of representatives in Congress."

Congress is empowered to determine the time of choosing the electors and the day on which they are to give their votes, which is required to be the same day throughout the United States; but otherwise, the power and jurisdiction of the state is exclusive, with the exception of the provisions as to the number of electors and the ineligibility of certain persons, so framed that congressional and federal influence might be excluded.

Simply put, the ability of the states to appoint electors do not include the ability to preempt the constitutional eligibility requirements.

It is clear why Arizona is creating this law, to breathe more life into this rumor. People who have a problem with Obama should spend more time intelligently debating the issues with which the disagree than focusing on this non-issue. Clearly, he was born in the US-anyone can see that. You don't like his health care policy-fine. Point out the reasons you disagree with it. You don't like his foreign policy-again-that is what makes American great-the freedom to challenge our leadership. This "birther" issue is just a manipulation by those who wish to discredit Obama and don't have the intelligence to come up with actual, factual statements.

Sorry, my bad.....the passport comment is in regards to the immigration "birther" bill, not the presidential one. They were discussing both of them this morning on the radio, got them mixed up. However, I do agree one should provide proof to run for office. Its simple, its common sense.

josephiFACTCHECK - For you "Birthers" including Limbaugh, Palin, Trump, Beck, etc", visit this link to see President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth complete with Raised Seal. By the way, he was'nt born in Chicago.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

After you do, then wallow in "Your Own Ignorance and Stupidity" - ROFLMAO

Before you ROFLMAO too much, you should know that "Factcheck.org" is a left-wing scam. It's funded by the Annenberg Group...it goes back to the domestic terrorist and communist friend of Obama, Bill Ayers' organizations. The garbage on this site is only part of the left-wing ant-American propaganda machine to fool the gullible masses like you. It seems to be working.

michelle-1073610 -Elle, I have just as many rights here as you do. I'm just grateful I don't live in Az.. Hopefully, the US will continue to be free, as long as the TP doesn't gain control of it, and try to force your extremist views on the rest of us.

I'm also glad you don't live here in AZ. We don't need any more brainwashed, misinformed nincompoops here to force your extremist, disgusting left-wing views on us.

MICHELLE!! We are equally glad you don't live in AZ... We already have too many "Progressive" idiots.

Shame on MSNBC for quoting the nut from Tuscon that wants to create Baja Arizona because he is part of the minority in the state house.

Arizona just did something that is common sense. Prove eligibility before you get put on the ballot. I really don't care what their motivation was in doing it. The article doesn't have any quotes from their discussions in passing the law, so to say that it is to force Obama off the ballot in 2012 is simply speculation. Also....Obama did not win Arizona in 2008 and he won't win it in 2012, so it would be irrelevant for them to try to get him off their ballot.

HO-LY SH1T. What a fvcked up country we live in! lol Is there some way we can bring back segregation but just do it by political party or something? I'm so sick of all this crap. And that is ALL that all this is.

I have a feeling that no matter what is provided in this case.. there will be argument.

GOOD FOR ARIZONA!!!!!

More and more states are seeing the writing on the wall and reinforcing their rights and sovereignty. The federal government has been usurped decades ago by internationalists who want to destroy the sovereignty of the U.S. and merge us into a global one-world-government. Obama is certainly one of them.

It may come down to a secession movement of a collection of states to save ANY PART of our country. The people who think they want socialism, and want to elect unqualified presidents because of their hatred of traditional America can go to hell. These people can stay in their broken, failed socialist-internationalist states and the rest of the REAL AMERICANS can secede and exercise our RIGHT to keep OUR country OURS!

Point 1--I was born in Oregon, my husband and one child in Maryland, the other two children in North Carolina--everyone of us has a "Certificate of Live Birth"! THAT'S WHAT IT'S CALLED!

Point 2--a Supreme Court ruling defined "natural born citizen" as one who was born in the US OR has at least one parent who is a citizen. (If it's the mother, it's obvious; father has to sign a form declaring that the child is his).

I love it when the 50th, 49th, and 48th states of our Union actually have something to say...Hawaii statehood 1959, Alaska 1959, Arizona 1912...wow! February 14, 2012 is a special day for you Arizonians...it's 100 years of being part of the United States of America! Happy Birthday! Most of your residents are older than your state! Half of your population can't vote for an elected offical anyways. Secede...take New Mexico, California, and Texas with you while your at it. We will give you your freedom for 3.3 Trillion! hahahaha

Tony D-373561

We already have too many "Progressive" idiots.

I'm curious... when exactly did PROGRESS become a negative concept...?

Is it any surprise that Arizona politicians passed such a ridiculous law?

Since they have no solutions to real problems, they must invent imaginary solutions to imaginary problems.

I thinks it's sad that some people think that an original, hospital b/c is the key. So.. if you have a house fire, flood, etc, that destroys all your documents, you cannot run for President, although the State has it on record?

Whatever.

Keep it cool - The bigger question is why Obama spent $1.7 million in legal defense to prevent the release of the original, signed by the doctor, not typed up by the state over a decade later - birth certificate.

The state of Hawaii says they have it. But they cannot show it without a written release from Obama.

What is he hiding?

He could easily have signed the release, shown it, and been done with this.

It shows he cannot handle the kind of controversy that a city councilman in a small town could handle.

They would just release it.

So why does Hawaii keep the original document if it has no value?

But no wonder Obama can't handle the presidency - he's in over his head on this simple to resolve issue.

V... - Tony D-373561

We already have too many "Progressive" idiots.

I'm curious... when exactly did PROGRESS become a negative concept...?

The term "progress" became negative when it became synonymous with communist ideology.

Here's the part I love...Steele, An AZ Republicans says and I quote: "we have to restore integrity in our national elections." Sure...only for this president. These sore losers didn't get McCain in the White House and now every AZ hotcha is after the winner?

So..let's talk national "integrity" in elections. Swiftboating based on lies and contortions...now...there's real integrity Republican style. Getting enough neoconsevatives on the Supreme Court before 2000 to secure the White House for Bush. Bush using his brother's state of Florida as the ultimate last resort for a win.

Yep...intregity...Hey! Steele...Get some before you bash a president elected by Constitutional majority rule.

You guys can see where these AZ nut jobs are going can't you? You can't impeach Barack Obama, so now you try to unseat him with a John Bircher BS story. I just can't wait until these AZ jerks are shown to be as stupid as they are behaving.

Mike416...Do not tell me what I am and am not. I SAID I am NOT a birther, and I AM NOT. I'm just sick of hearing this over and over. Show the damn things and be done with it..

Was my comment just too sensible and basic and an easy solution to all these questions too complicated for you to grasp? WHAT, that I said are you being defensive about?

If you think giving the finger is a good response, I guess that just shows the level of your maturity.

Aggie...If if he plasters it on every billboard for the next 2 years, these jackasses in AZ won't believe it. They'll just nitpick every word on that document apart. Why? Because unlike Clinton, this president is too wise to their tricks to unseat the Democrat elected president. They got away with that BS morality clause with Clinton and ooooooh...weeeeee ...Big Bad Mr. Clinton told a lie...like they've never lied in their lives to save ass in front of Wifie Dearest?

I'm fed up too. I'm fed up going into a voting booth and never knowing what slime ball tactics the right wingers will come up with to usurp my right to elect the president I want. These birthers are paid by the Koch brothers or Rove. I'd stake my life on that.

Meanwhile, these Az pistol packing hotchas doing the swagger swagger boom boom routine can't even get a single shot off to save a Congresswoman's life? What the hell is that? White male ego BS?

HOLD THE PRESS!!!

So let me get this straight and on the record. If Obama (re) releases his Birth Certificate, and if he decided to release his college records, how many of you "Birthers" would then vote for him?

My guess would be a whopping NONE of you, so if I were him, I'd just as soon ignore every one of you and your wishes.

josephi

FACTCHECK - For you "Birthers" including Limbaugh, Palin, Trump, Beck, etc", visit this link to see President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth complete with Raised Seal. By the way, he was'nt born in Chicago.

After you do, then wallow in "Your Own Ignorance and Stupidity" - ROFLMAO

You do realize that any facts put forward will be ignored by these people. If it doesn't fit their agenda, the blinders go on.

Clinton had served his 8 years. He wasn't eligible to run again. Had nothing to do with Republicans. You are really paranoid. BTW, those thugs in the black leather outfits at the polling places, palming billy clubs weren't Republicans trying to usurp your rights...

But wait, there's more! Just in.....

We now have new theory, it's no matter that there is an actual birth certificate, and those pesky birth announcements from the newspapers that show he was born in Hawaii.

Let me share my new theory, and not that silly one that the Obama family somehow knew their son would one day be president (Because we all knew back then in the 60's that blacks would soon rise to rule the world).

I'm a figuring that in the future, Obama's great great grandson, stole a time machine from some rich white dude. He then went back in time and somehow planted the birth certificate (maybe changed the name on some Muslim kids certificate), then had the birth announcements posted in the local papers.

Case closed! Let's go get him, and throw his kids in jail at the same time so they can't procreate and this will all just go away.

Whew, should I call FOX News and let them in on this secret?

Skrekk made my argument, and said it better. Read it above.

What stupidity. Arizona can NOT bar its residents from voting for Obama.

Ridiculous. What the hell is in these peoples water?

I see Arizona and the tea freaks getting smacked down yet again.

Foolish Arizonans. They don't even display any thought process. Just a childlike tantrum.

Fox news really did a number on the tin foil hat wearers down there.

Rich, seems like YOU are the tool on here. What so many of you keep saying (just show it and it will go away), totally ignore mulitple officials (from both sides of the aisle) that say in Hawaii, nobody can get a copy of the original BC. They will be given the live birth certificate. (which IS acceptible for passport for those experts who say it isn't). So, when election rolls around, Obama will present the ONLY copy he can get from Hawaii and that will be the live birth.

Liberals are not afraid of this legislation. They are disgusted. I think someone above said all other candidates probably have a BC. Well guess what... you never asked anyone before... Only when a black won an election. It doesn't matter how many facts are presented, you whack jobs keep saying "yes, but I still have doubts".... But I guess we really can't blame the morons in AZ... First they do the MLK crap, then they don't want to follow DST, and they have the great Senator Kyle who states factual numbers to his fellow senators, yet when proven wrong, he says his statement was not intended to be taken as a factual statement. Wow... what a state... SO glad my black Kenyon mother didn't have me in Kenya, then sneak me into AZ and cover her tracks... JUST in case I ran for pres years later...

On behalf of the sane residents of Arizona, I apologize both for our legislature and for producing Janet Nepolitano (you know - "the border is secure" lady in charge of Homeland Security). Most of us in Arizona are neither extreme.

@machinehead:

"The term "progress" became negative when it became synonymous with communist ideology."

Really? If that's the validation you make for dismissing progressive people, can I assume conservatism is synonymous with nazi facism?

How about you actually find out what communism is? Both communism and facism are, when applied correctly, decent ideas for how to run a society. They were not applied correctly and thus became icons of evil to ignorant people attempting to justify their religion and/or conservative ideas.

Everyone keeps saying "just show it." Ths Arizona law changes nothing. Just because Arizona will require proof, doesn't mean it has to be released publicly. President Obama's eligibility was already decided by whatever official(s), probably in the FEC, validate the elections. So next election, the Arizona officials will see the same certificate that was already released.

Neither the posters here or Donald Trump have any right to see President Obama's birth certificate, medical records, or school transcript. You have no more right to see it than you have to see mine. It doesn't matter how much people scream about it- you vote for him or not, but his eligibility is not decided by public opinion. Why do all these people demanding "he show it to us," think they have the right? Nowhere in the consitiution or in federal law is the requirement that every American get to see the proof of citizenship. The election officials were obviously satisfied before President Obama was sworn in. I just don't understand what people think has to be proven to them.

PatsFan4Life...........If convicted felons and mentalally incompetent are not allowed to vote in Arizona, at least they won't have ANY electoral college votes !

timewonttell.........McCain was born to American citizens , his dad was a Naval Officer who eventually became the Commanding Officer of all forces in the Pacific and Asia , and he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was U.S. soil at the time of his birth. His grandfather by the way was a WWII Naval offiicer and hero, who died of stress from his job a few days after the war ended. Don't care what you think about McCain's politics, but you are too ignorant to be allowed to disparage the citizenship of this brave American and not be given a bullchit call on it !

Dave-2550157Neither the posters here or Donald Trump have any right to see President Obama's birth certificate, medical records, or school transcript. You have no more right to see it than you have to see mine.

If you're running for president of the U.S., you bet we have that right!

It doesn't matter how much people scream about it- you vote for him or not, but his eligibility is not decided by public opinion. Why do all these people demanding "he show it to us," think they have the right?

Because the "people" are the government (or are supposed to be). If the elected officials aren't doing their jobs, then it becomes the DUTY of the people to make sure the constitution is followed. Period.

Nowhere in the consitiution or in federal law is the requirement that every American get to see the proof of citizenship. The election officials were obviously satisfied before President Obama was sworn in. I just don't understand what people think has to be proven to them.

Those sheeple who just accept the crap shoveled down their throats (like you) are the ones who will be guilty of letting our country slip into the hands of subversives. You would rather fit in and follow the crowd than actually look into things.

machinehead

- Tony D-373561
We already have too many "Progressive" idiots.

- V...
I'm curious... when exactly did PROGRESS become a negative concept...?

- machinehead
The term "progress" became negative when it became synonymous with communist ideology.

- machinehead
The term "progress" became negative when it became synonymous with communist ideology.

O_O

Wow! Stop watching Glenn Beck!

My comment wasn't fully posted at #2.102...
I meant to include this definition....

prog·ress
n.
1. Movement, as toward a goal; advance.
2. Development or growth: students who show progress.
3. Steady improvement, as of a society or civilization:

If YOU (machinehead) choose to associate that word with communism, that's your prerogative....
But I don't know see where you derive that association as being historically recognized.

You're right about that. The legal requirements to be an Arizona legislator don't include any sort of formal education, or even that a person be potty trained for that matter. Somehow our state Republican party has managed to find the most useless and ignorant dregs at the lowest levels of society, put them on the ballot with the word "Republican" next to their names, and the idiot voters in this state just rubber stamp these drooling morons right into the state legislature.

In any event, how is the "proof" of U.S. birth going to be validated? I mean really, Obama's birth certificate has already been certified, so this law -- if it becomes law -- wouldn't affect his being on the ballot here.

.

Sorry JLM if you don't find my anger at these clowns very insightful. I do not believe that my tax money that pays these bums salaries is being well-spent on this long string of stupid, worthless and mostly unconstitutional bills they have been debating throughout the year.

We have real problems in Arizona -- painful budget cuts, a need to attract businesses and stimulate job creation, etc. This latest crop of morons is not doing the business of the state and not following the wishes of the voters that elected them. When you voted for a "conservative," I don't think you had in mind a conservative who was too stupid or lazy to DO HIS JOB! rather than waste time and money trying to get his name in the headlines by coming up with even more ridiculous bills than his fellow clowns came up with last month!

azdad - While I'm in no way a "birther", no one (that anyone knows of) has ever seen Obama's birth certificate, nor has there been an legal certification of his U.S. birth.

Not that it would matter at this point (and as if anyone rooting for Obama would vote differently anyway), but I think that an overwhelming majority of constitutional scholars would agree that the constitution barring anyone not specifically born on U.S. soil from being president is a pretty big deal. I, for one, believe in that principle. I think the majority of (rational, sane) U.S. citizens believe that as well. It's probably the most important qualification set forth by the constitution (seeing as congressional experience and military service isn't a requirement).

a legal* (my bad....late at night)

Z from AZ - Like a lot of people from Arizona (evidently), you must have missed the 2008 investigation from FactCheck.org:

n June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Click the link above to read the full article. Then go to post #1.9 to read their latest update.

So, closest I see is a "Certification of Live Birth" (which is not a birth certificate). Again, I'm no birther, but this isn't a birth certificate. And again, I could care less this far into his term but you guys need to start getting your facts straight. At this point, so what if he isn't a a U.S. citizen, but if he hasn't proved it, don't tell me he has.

The real problem is that there are certain factions that will never accept the legitimacy of the President's birth certificate, and no matter what additional steps he takes, if any, if this bill becomes law, there will be a debate about whether he qualifies to be on the 2012 ballot in Arizona.

If his name is excluded from the 2012 ballot here, I believe we are going to need riot police at a minimum, possibly the National Guard, to maintain civil order at polling places in Arizona. Perhaps we should ask the UN to send in observers -- just like they do in 3rd world dictatorships -- to assure that Arizona has free and fair elections!

This is no small matter. Even those of us who wouldn't vote for him anyway will be outraged at this blatant attempt to rig a presidential election by keeping the President of the United States' name off the ballot. This could lead to a lot worse than civil disobedience...

This law won't matter, because soon, Arizona will be establishing stupidity levels for voters, and since nobody's smarter than a fifth grader in Arizona there won't be any voters anyway!!!

Barlow, what state are you from?

Z from AZ - go read posts #8.6 and #8.11.

Sorry the truth hurts, but it's still true.

RAF - Don't forget to cite your references. They come in handy when trying to prove a point. Not to mention, this law reinforces federal law. If Obama is a citizen, proven by the same proof you've offered me, then why the big uprise from the left about Arizona's business?

Do you even TRY to read and learn anything, Z from AZ? I mean, they won't let us cut open your head and try to pour it in, you know.

Start with these, and then come back if you have questions. AFTER you've read them:

http://factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

And the whole point is that it's NONE of Arizona's business.

No, Arizona's business is none of the Federal Government's business, unless it violates federal law. I can't see how this does.

And obviously you and I will have to agree to disagree, just like most opposing political parties. In the end, we change nothing, we just believe different things, and think the other is as stupid as a box of rocks.

Funny how rarely federal courts seem to agree with Arizona's interpretation of their "rights", isn't it?

Funny how unrealistic is it to assume federal courts are impartial and acting with the constitution in mind. Do you honestly believe Justice Sotomayor wouldn't cast a dissent vote toward SB1070? Even if there was no possible argument, she would still dissent to it, as would most along party lines. Realistically, there isn't a single rational argument to be made against this or any other law Arizona has passed lately. However, it's all political, and even more so "politically correct"...the entire system. It's not about what's right, it's about what won't offend anyone. That's why this Arizona law is even in the news in the first place.

@RealAmericansFirst

I've always believed Obama was a citizen. Then I see your link for "Donald you're fired" and now firmly believe Trump is a f*cking idiot. Thank you.

Z from AZ - so now the federal courts aren't the arbiters of what is Constitutional in the United States? Instead it's the lawmakers and Governor of Arizona?

Sounds like y'all need to go form your own country. Or you think you are already.

Z from AZ

So, closest I see is a "Certification of Live Birth" (which is not a birth certificate). Again, I'm no birther, but this isn't a birth certificate.

Yes a short form birth certificate (AKA a certification of live birth) is an actual birth certificate.

Yes you are a birther - which speaks volumes of your intelligence.

No, the constitution only handles so much of the powers of the federal government. The rest is passed down to the states to govern for themselves. Making every state hold a uniform presidential election is not a power of the federal government, therefore, under the 10th amendment, it's a state power. One that it can regulate on it's own.

Mike. Aka...not a birth certificate. You can justify the whole "short form" deal all you want. If I run up a contract with you for a rental property, and I give you the "short form" that's possibly incomplete and legally questionable, maybe you'll understand. Of course, if you trust me, you trust that all the important information is clear and visible, and you consider it our legal contract, and we'd have no troubles. Some people just aren't that trusting. Regardless, I've already made this point clear. Some argue the document is a representation of a legal document, and therefore a legal copy, and able to be used as such. The other side says that it isn't a legal document, and therefore isn't a direct representation of the original legal document.

Round and round we go, but it won't change either of our perspectives, so it's time to lay it to rest. Why not get back on track (like I was attempting to do), and actually talk about the law at hand?

Z from AZ

Mike. Aka...not a birth certificate.

http://factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/

"And the state’s top vital records official, Dr. Chiyome Leinaala Fukino, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, issued a statement in 2009 stating that she had "seen the original vital records maintained on file" and that those records, which are confidential under state law, verify that "Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen.""

And for arguments sake - if a single mother american citizen gives birth to a child in Canada - is that child a natural born citizen?

If I was the president and had a bunch of idiots asking to see my birth certificate - Id give them the finger too.

So, the certificate of live birth that was presented is not the "original vital record[s]" mentioned in the article you posted, correct?

Therefore, it isn't what would be considered the original, vital birth record (i.e. birth certificate), right?

I just want to make sure I heard you right.

Z from AZ

So, the certificate of live birth that was presented is not the "original vital record[s]" mentioned in the article you posted, correct?

Therefore, it isn't what would be considered the original, vital birth record (i.e. birth certificate), right?

I just want to make sure I heard you right.

Original as in the original crusty paper document thats 40 years old? No. Original as in presented by the state as being valid and proof that a long form exists? Yes. I found my birth certificate from 35 years ago and guess what - its a short form. OMGF! I M NOT A US CITIZEN!

You didnt answer my question of about the canadian born child to an American citizen.

Also - when my 3 year old was born - we received a short form birth certificate. Thats it. Does that means she can never run for president in 33 years?

Why don't these clowns just go ahead and carry signs reading "I am an ignoramus." Of course, that would entail knowing what "ignoramus" means. Big words and all.

Because none of them can spell it.

Not that it would matter at this point (and as if anyone rooting for Obama would vote differently anyway), but I think that an overwhelming majority of constitutional scholars would agree that the constitution barring anyone not specifically born on U.S. soil from being president is a pretty big deal.

I agree with you on this, especially since the founding fathers specifically made a distigision between this and the requirements to be a Senator or Representative. It states that the Presedent MUST be a "natural-bon" citizen. A Sentor or Representative does not have to be. That is why legal emagrates can run for Congress but CANNOT run for Presedent.

Your Canadian question isn't yes or no. It's much too vague to answer. If she's a single mother, she has to be a U.S Citizen, and in the U.S. for one continuous year prior to the baby's birth. But that wasn't the case in 1961.

And if you're going to become a president, you'll need a birth certificate to establish birthright. If controversy exists, and you have the ability to clear it up, wouldn't that be the easiest route to go? Release a photocopy of the original, or spend millions keeping it confidential and a mystery alive? It's clearly his choice, but if voters became distrustful because he holds back, that's an extremely atypical response. So much so, most would consider it deliberate.

It also means that when you release a birth certificate to prove residency, you don't release an informal representation, and hope everyone takes your word on it. If it comes down to it, you either prove your opponents wrong, and make them look foolish, or you just exacerbate conspiracy and become questionable.

As I said before, it's foolish going back and forth about this. It's a volatile subject, just like abortion or gun control, and both sides will never come to amicable compromises. In the end, it's just not worth arguing about, because you end up right back where you started.

Now. How about answer my question? What's wrong with this law? Keep in mind that this has already been established to be constitutional and within the state's rights. Also keep in mind that this will vindicate anyone caught in a controversy, and allow fewer attacks in future campaigns.

"And the state’s top vital records official, Dr. Chiyome Leinaala Fukino, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, issued a statement in 2009 stating that she had "seen the original vital records maintained on file" and that those records, which are confidential under state law, verify that "Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen.""

I believe that Obama was born in Hawaii.

But you do realize that near 400 million citizens are taking the word of ONE person as being the truth, dont you?

From my understanding, the Director of HDoH checked the states vital records for accuracy of public statements. Because of state laws, that person cannot actually show the true vital records WITHOUT the written concent of the person in question. So they are able to release the "Certificate of Live Birth" as a statement that said check occurred. So all this can be solved by written concent.

Z from AZ

Your Canadian question isn't yes or no. It's much too vague to answer. If she's a single mother, she has to be a U.S Citizen, and in the U.S. for one continuous year prior to the baby's birth. But that wasn't the case in 1961.

Yes it is a yes or no question. If a 25 year old woman born in WA state visits Canada - and has that child in Canada - is that child an American citizen? The fact that you dodged the question proves a lot.

And if you're going to become a president, you'll need a birth certificate to establish birthright. If controversy exists, and you have the ability to clear it up, wouldn't that be the easiest route to go?

But as I said - its the short form - which is what Obama has shown. Does that mean I cant be president? I was born and bred in PA. Same with my daughter - short form. Stop dodging the question and answer me. Can my daughter be elected president even though the only thing that was ever issued to us a short form birth cert?

If it comes down to it, you either prove your opponents wrong, and make them look foolish, or you just exacerbate conspiracy and become questionable.

And they dont look foolish now? Hasnt stopped them.

Now. How about answer my question? What's wrong with this law? Keep in mind that this has already been established to be constitutional and within the state's rights. Also keep in mind that this will vindicate anyone caught in a controversy, and allow fewer attacks in future campaigns.

Arizona cannot even get their crap straight to protect its own people while passing racial profiling immigration laws.

I had, at one time, wanted to buy some real estate down there to retire some day because I suffer from allergies and migraines. Something small to retire to.

No way in hell now. You people are ridiculous.

I heard a few years ago that his REAL birth certificate has his religion posted as muslim on it and thats why he doesnt want to show it.

Ok FedupwithFed - take a good look at your own birth certificate. Does it show your religion on it? No?! Duh! Religion isn't noted on your BIRTH CERTIFICATE! Eeesh!

First of all, no, it isn't a yes or no question. Your question "if a single mother american citizen gives birth to a child in Canada - is that child a natural born citizen?" is lacking in information. If you had said she was visiting Canada, it's a no-brainer.

Think of it this way: If her parents were both Canadian, and they gave birth to her in the U.S. she would be a U.S. citizen. Now, if she lived her entire life in Canada as a U.S. citizen, she couldn't give birth to a U.S. citizen in Canada.

And that's only the black and white case.

It's not as "yes or no" as it seems when you only give a slight bit of information, is it?

Second - I have no idea what congress considers a legal document for proof of citizenship and U.S. naturalization or birth. I can only imagine that if the qualifications are set for the highest office in the country, they'll want to see the original. And at the same time, I wouldn't put it past any government official to sign off on something due to political pressure. So I'll say that from what I can gather, you absolutely can not be legally eligible for the presidency if you do not have access to the original birth certificate stating you are American. Anything less would be less than adequate to constitute proof by legal standards. Just because you were issued a copy does not mean that your birth certificate cannot be readily accessible. As a legal document, and one important to the government for record keeping purposes, it makes sense that you would not have the original, but it makes absolutely no sense to not access it and release a copy of the original as proof of U.S. Citizenship and birth. A representation of a legal document is still not the same legal document, and when it's validating eligibility for an office as important as the presidency, you better believe that it's a big deal. You aren't filling out your ancestry.com tree, you're applying for the most powerful, most important, and most influential job in the world. You better have the proper documentation, and you better not beat around the bush, or cut corners with representations and "almost legal" paperwork.

And third, do me a favor. Read SB1070. It's like, 10 pages, and they're short. It's extremely easy reading. If the majority of Americans would have done that first instead of jumping to conclusions like you just did, there wouldn't have ever been an issue.

By the way, can you offer any solutions to our immigration problem? It's your problem too, even if you can't feel it.

LET THEM DO IT!!!!! You guys are not thinking about what a political gift this is for Obama and the Dems.

-Most people (all of the ones Obama can win anyway) are smart enough to know that 50 years ago a scared pregnant teenager living in Hawaii, didn't decide to head to a third world country to have a baby, then have the foresight to put a birth announcement in the Hawaii newspaper in case her black son named Barack Hussein Obama ever decided to run for president. Think about that. Having IGNORANT, MORONS with in nascar hats, with rebel flag T-shirts on believing exactly that, makes the repubs look nuts. Normal people don't want to ID with that type of nut, SO KEEP IT UP TEABAGGERS, I BEG YOU!!!!!!

I believe the Arizona Law makes sense and that ALL candidates should have to prove that they were born in the US. The State has the right to do so.

There was no such thing as a " certiciate of Birth" when the Constitution was written.

I believe in Free Speech.

I love to see my comments collapsed by the "censors".

Gil says: "I believe the Arizona Law makes sense and that ALL candidates should have to prove that they were born in the US. The State has the right to do so."

Yup, me too. Any court in the land, even Arizona's, will accept the evidence that's been made public regarding President Obama's citizenship. The fact that some people on this b-board haven't is irrelevant.

If the doubters have read the factcheck references above (I won't repeat them), have looked at every one of their references to source material, and still have doubts, then I think we can all safely assume that they will somehow rationalize any further evidence away as well. Here, let me save them some trouble and hand them their next few moves: 1) President Obama grants permission for release of any and all documents on file, per HIPA. Birthers claim he waited because it took that long to get the forgeries ready. 2) Documents are carbon-dated and found to date to the correct period. Birthers claim it took that long to find old paper and ink, bleach out the paper, and reprint it. 3) Need I go on? This is too easy. You'll never change your mind, not because you don't believe the facts, but because you prefer to ignore them.

The FACTCHECK.ORG article has an error.

They did not see the original, signed, not typed up by the state over a decade later, birth certificate.

They say a certificate of live birth. It was produced by Hawaii in the early 1970's when they went to standard format for all birth certs. (Although people in the late 1960's were already in this format there. What factcheck saw was when the state went back and typed new ones.)

Either way, I'm glad Arizona will check to make sure a candidate is eligible to be on their ballot.

Just like I'm glad they are checking to make sure that the people here are eligible to be in their state.

Ryan that still does not change the problem with motivation. WHY????????? would she do it, he already qualified for citizenship, so what is the motivation???????

Also, why would she want to go to a third world country to give birth??????????

Please explain that to me

100% legal. Laws in place currently to back this. You can run for any elected position you want. To get ON the ballot you have to qualify. This is why there is a write in box on your ballot....for those that do not QUALIFY to be on the ballot.

I heard a few years ago that his REAL birth certificate has his religion posted as muslim on it and thats why he doesnt want to show it.

Why does it matter if his birth certificate said he was born Muslim? Just because his parents were practicing Muslims doesn't mean he is. I was born, baptized, even communed as a Catholic, but that doesn't mean I consider myself to be Catholic. The only time I have been to a Catholic church since I was about 12 was for funerals and weddings. Not everyone chooses to follow their parents religion as adults.

"You embarass our nation, and I wish you could suceed from the US"

But not being able to spell isn't embarrassing at all!?

So, apparently, the Left's position is that states can make their own marriage laws but not election or abortion law?

Rubbersoul - Obama's mom was in Kenya.

His dad is a Kenyan citizen.

Obama spent almost no time in the US as a kid.

Those are the facts.

Here's my speculation.

She may have already had the ticket to the US, and didn't want to go through the massive paperwork to make a kid born in another country with a non US citizen parent a citizen. (If he was born early)

I would agree that Hawaii is probably a better place than Kenya for a young child.

But since many kids were still born outside the Hospital in the 1950's, you could easily get birth certs. back then.

Same with airlines. No pat downs of babies back then. An infant in the arms of an American citizen mom wouldn't have had to have documents like today.

Either way, Obama should have just released the original. All he had to do was sign for it. Then show it.

But He's not even competent enough to handle this controversy. No wonder he can't handle the Presidency.

BTW, there is clearly something on the full birth certificate that Obama doesn't want to get out. Could be religion, maybe the father is missing or different, I don't know, but otherwise he wouldn't spend millions preventing its release.

couple of things

A certificate of live birth will get you a passport and military clearance

No state shall create a lwa that requires another state to change theirs

the certificate of life birth has already been said not to be good enough for AZ even though the POTUS used it to get a passport

so now Hawii must chnage their laws to issue a birth certifacte to another state.......

While everyone is banging away about spelling let's try this little gem:

You embarass our nation, and I wish you could suceed from the US. You really don't belong here.

Michelle, the word you are looking for is secede. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secede?show=0&t=1302884079

How embarrassing, for you that is.

It is because of morons like Z from AZ that raving lunatics like Michael Savage continue to flourish.

No matter WHAT proof, answers, research, experts or other sources of fact you may present, the defective brain circuits reset to "Ask question again," or "restate circular logic," or "repeat talking point from AM talk radio host."

Their dense skulls will not allow any changes within, once programmed by their favored talking heads. You see, some people have an unshakable opinion. They then go out seeking any and all information to reinforce that opinion, while disregarding or believing as fake anything that contradicts that opinion. They are ineducable.

It is really, really scary to imagine how many such morons posses many, many guns.

NEVER underestimate the power of large groups of idiots who are armed to the teeth.

This is only an insult if Obama's Hawaii birth certificate and certification from state records departments does not qualify someone to be on their ballot... and if that's true, it is pretty certain that no candidate qualifies unless they were born in AZ.

I think we have big trouble. No one is wrong and no one is right. Here is why!

We did not get to this technological state of innovation by not proving mathematical theorems, Physics Theory, Chemical reactivity, Biological heredity. What ever we do as civilized society we stand to question claims by anyone unless supplemented by evidence and proof. Such is not the right of US citizens alone it is the right of world civil society. It is not healthy to believe or accept claims unless least of truth or fundamental facts are before hand. Arizona is at liberty to institute such law as it has been agreed upon by the constitution that some rights are of that of the states and that of the citizens. This is one of them.

A sizable proportion of Arizonans are not allowed to vote anyway. Some are not citizens (they get counted for Congressional apportionment and federal dollars, but they can't vote) and others have last names that are spelled kind of 'Spanishy' Just wait, right before the next election, the Arizona Republican Party will remove 100,000 or so Latino voters from the regisetered rolls, and by the time (at the voting booth) those voters find out they've been disenfranchised, it'll be too late to do anything about it. Jan Brewer's done it before, and it will be done again.

Think about this:

No Federal Court claims jurisdiction over candidate eligibility.

So which court do you challenge a candidate's eligibility in?

Look at how many people here oppose checking their eligibility.

Just like how the Federal Gov't will not check the eligibility of people to be in this country.

There are Federal Regulations that even go so far as to prevent the checking of legal status in Hospitals and Schools.

So thank you Arizona. You are the only state who alctually wants people to be here legally, and people on your ballots to be eligible for the office they are running for.

What is sad is that Arizona is made to be the odd man out for following the law and the US Constitution.. Our country is screwed if it wrong to follow the law and obey the US Constitution.

Z to the AZ, Ryan, and Fedup:

We get it. You guys are not birthers. You just don't think Obama was born here, because you weren't there to see it.

Perfectly reasonable. Now, please go back to your respective countries, since President Obama did not witness your births here in the United States.

So the state that emphasizes the word "illegal" in illegal alien can not grasp the concept that Hawaiian law makes it illegal to obtain the actual birth certificate.

When you talk about immigration, they yell "ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL, ILLEGAL" . . . but when you talk about Obama's birth certificate, they ignore the "illegal" part of wanting to see it.

On top of that, a republican governor verified that actual birth certificate . . . A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR. They saw it, but did not distribute it because it is AGAINST THE LAW. Remember, the whole "illegal" thing?

The stupidity displayed by right-wing conservatives is mind blowing. Seriously, you people are retarded.

Personal attacks get you nowhere. As it's already stated, there's good reason for the skepticism that some people have. Those in love with Obama may not want to admit something's wrong, but those who absolutely hate him might not want to admit there's nothing wrong at all. Someones proof is anothers questionable sources. We all know how shady a word "proof" is anyway (especially from what's always being thrown around on this forum), lets not make it any more murky by using representations of proof as actual proof. Me personally, I don't care. But don't show me a dog and say it's a dingo.

Either way, this law is completely constitutional. Most posts never would have made it here if it weren't for people misreading, misinterpreting and misrepresenting laws. I'm so tired of having to re-translate legislation for people who get it from extremely biased sources., or from word of mouth that usually begins and ends with "racist law".

I think we know full well that Arizona couldn't and wouldn't pass a law that would try to change the federal statute on eligibility. Why would any person actually believe that, even if they read it somewhere? Nevertheless, states have more power than most people think, and controlling what eligibility requirements for ballots is one of them. Hell, it's not even a very big one.

At the the end of the day, when it's all done, we just both go our separate ways with our ideas. I think you're dumb for yours, and you think I'm dumb for mine. Problem is, we're both just as right as we are wrong. A difference in opinion is just that. Opinion. So get your point across, but don't start insulting people because their views are different than yours, and for no less of a reason.

Ryan? You are simply spewing false information showing you are too lazy to do your own research. Report after report has shown Obama spent plenty of time in Hawaii after his birth. School teachers, neighbors, etc have ALL said they remember Obama as a kid. All of this came out after Trump the publicity hound, came out and said exactly what YOU said (probably where you got your info) Your theory on how is this all happened reveals how really idiotic you birthers are..... You haven't explained the birth announcements either.

Gil and others. You keep insisting on seeing the actual BC. It is obvious you have not paid any attention to Republicans, officials and Dems from hawaii that states in NO ambiguity, that NOBODY and I mean NOBODY can get a copy of the actual BC. If you ask for one, you will get the live birth form. People on both sides of the aisle have seen the original and have attested to the facts. You guys just wont take any proof to settle this.

And for those "constitutional experts" out there saying this law is legal, need to actually study what true experts have said. No state can dabble, change, play with the Fed requirements to run for Pres. You can do all you want on state elections, but not the Fed.

Hey, We don't care where he was born, we just don't want him for another 4 years. Enough damage has been done already. And for all of you folks that think it is a black thing, WAKE UP! There are many Black conservatives I would vote for in a min., but the left just can't stand a Black man that has risen to the top and has become a productive member of society. They would rather keep the Black and Hispanic population in control by offering them a lot of free stuff that they never get anyway. Wake up Black America!!! The left has been looting and destroying you and your ability to produce for years. They just want votes.

Read a couple of books by John McWhorter a Black author. (Winning the Race and Losing the Race). I would vote for him in a nano second. Any time a Black Conservative rises up from the ashes, the Left will do anything possible to send him back down. Don't you get it yet? They don't want you to succeed. They want you to feel less than. They stick you in housing projects and give you just enough to survive and promise you more if you will just vote for me again. They have taken away your God Given Right to be all you can be. They degrade you by telling you, you are not smart enough to go to college without special consideration. They pay your women for having babies from multiple fathers and most black kids in the inner cities have never even witnessed a wedding and are left with no father image. Please wake up Black America, you are better than this.

commonsense - I've already stated that I don't care about his birthplace. Not a whole lot that could or would be done about it at this point. And I highly doubt that in the extremely rare chance there was something to hide, we'd ever actually see it (as would be the case with any president in the future that's ever in this position).

The thing I care about is false information. If someone passes of a certificate of live birth for proof of citizenship and it's accepted as proof, then so be it. But don't sit there and call it a birth certificate, because it isn't one.

Some people run with it both ways. One side says that it's not a birth certificate so it's completely invalid. The other says it's a direct representation of the birth certificate, so it's just as good. Me personally? I don't care, just don't misrepresent what it is, and don't make it out to be something it isn't.

Mike-416 - People with allergies that come to AZ are in for quite a shock when they get here now. I grew up in Northern California and never experienced allergies until I moved to AZ. It has something to do with all of the non-indigenous plants here.

As for the bill - let it pass. Then, take away our electoral votes. That seems like a win/win situation. Both sides are happy.

All states should do this so people will stop wasting time speculating and arguing about whether or not a presidential candidate meets our Constitution's requirements. There are a lot more important issues to concern ourselves about.

Of course, this creates the possibility that a few states have a different standard, perhaps more onerous, than all the others . Or some state like Massachusetts will change the requirements depending on which party the candidate is in.

Notice how the same people who don't want citizenship status checked, also don't want to check the eligibility of candidates.

Thank you Arizona for checking to make sure people are following the law.

Ryan in Texas, Let's talk about what factual information is out there; We know for fact that his dad was attending college in hawaii before and after his birth. We know that they rented a house near the univ., we know that after attending school there, he left to attend harvard and did not move back to Kenya for at least a couple years after his birth. And we know he has a certificate of live birth and 2 birth records published in newspapers at the time of his birth. If you have any other FACTUAL info, then please show me. Last fact, there is no record of him being in Kenya at birth or shortly thereafter.

So, my question to you is this; Why do you believe that he was born in Kenya given that what information there is suggests otherwise. In an effort to be realistic, I will concede that there is no iron clad proof that he was here, but AND THIS IS MY POINT given what info we have is it not more likely that he was born here. Since it is, why continue to worry about? IF any new information comes out I will reconsider my view, but AT LEAST RIGHT NOW the information suggests he was born here. So why do you believe otherwise? I am attempting to be very serious and would be interested in your opinion, and how you could feel differently than me given what is known (evidence, not inference or rumour).

Which is why the only way it could have happened was if they travelled to Kenya around the time of his birth, which makes no sense and was at the heart of my first argument

@Barlow:

since nobody's smarter than a fifth grader in Arizona

You obviously "bought" the 4th grader back-n-forth exchanges I enjoyed with what_the_81 in immigration story posts earlier last week, although you demonstrate similar mindset to an education fixation. Especially of those residents (by choice) in AZ.

@Michelle:

I'm just grateful I don't live in Az..

As we are, by mutual consent. (Most of us know how to spell most words here.)

@Z from AZ:

You are correct about birth certificates vs. state-issued copies (COLBs) of that document. @Mike-416 is not.

We learned from a former POTUS that "it all depends of what the definition of 'is' is". So, not to outdone, another POTUS-lawyer has decided - for whatever reason - to obfuscate not only the release of his official certification of live birth certification, but any personal or college transcripts. A vapor trail of sorts.

Certainly reason for curious, guarded suspicion, unless higher authorities call upon him to do so. And that would be what, the SCOTUS? (Unlikely).

@PhoneUser: and @Ryan in Texas both refer to FactCheck.org interpretation re. Obama's birth. Factcheck has already been discredited in this subject, so what cred does it really have on the topic? See: http://theswash.com/2010/08/27/who-fact-checks-factcheck-org/

And when a "Factcheck(er)" gets fact-checked on Donald Trump's suggestions on the POTUS birth story, what happens? Should anybody raise an eyebrow of suspicion? See: http://apcheck.blogspot.com/2011/04/factcheckorg-gets-facts-wrong-about.html

Then there is the actual Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) discrepancy, one big one being: See: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS328US329&q=FactCheck.org+%2b+bias+%2b+obama+birth+

Other "questions" arise from Wikipedia's notations of manipulation: http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia:_Obama

But blessed be those ardent "blind" voters who choose not to see perhaps the greatest con job ever in American politics.

rubbersoul - that would be information that Obama should have brought to light. We know very little about his childhood. We know he spent much of his time in Indonesia, but not what he was taught at the Madras he attended for example.

What none of the 1/5 Americans (more than are Black and Homosexual combined for point of reference as to the size of us) is why Obama didn't just release the original birth certificate.

The way I read this new Arizona law, he would be eligible to run for President.

But this is more of a question of trust. He won't sign a form to release the original, so we don't trust that he isn't hiding something.

It goes under "Trust, but verify". No verify, no trust.

I cannot imagine a US President just deciding that the concerns of over 20% of Americans isn't worth signing a release and showing the thing.

That doesn't mean I'm going to vote for him if he shows it, but respect is a two way street. I get the feeling he respects people who disagree with him as much as he respects the US Constitution the he disagrees with.

But many of us wonder, why won't he just sign the release?

Ryan in Texas...How do you know Bush was born in the US? Did you ask to see HIS birth certificate? His old man served as a diplomat under Nixon. How do you know he was born in the US?

More than a dozen senators have seen Barack Obama's birth certificate. It's been on the internet. And, the only birth certificate considered legal is the short form, not the long one. This I know when my son left for Sweden and only had the long form. I had to pay $15 to get the short form which is the only that passes muster to get your passport.

These Tea Baggers are trying to unseat a president elected by Consitutional majority. The idiot poster above trying to make that states rights BS claim better start paying the rest of the federal funds HIS doesn't pay and the rest of our states do.

AZ is one of those states in the top 5 that get back nearly twice the federal return they pay in. Now, these nutcases want to usurp MY right to the president I helped elect? Not not not going to happen.

Dollar to a donut those Koch Brothers are salivating over ownership of the US Government about now. They ought to be. They've spent millions on back room deals to get what THEY want and we don't.