What was the context of that quote? You sound like a politician.

Paid friends are not true friends at all. America pays with lives as well as money too. We should take Americans out of the conflict. I am sick of Obama ignoring his duty to fix America while he talks about other nations like some snooping woman talking about the neighbors wives.

we pay virtually all our "friends" in some way. who are you people and what naive planet eo you come from?

stopping aid to Israel wont solve anything. who in their right minds thinks Israel wont go down in flames before they let islamo-fascists take their state. what part of "never again" don't you get?

I took the President's comments to be an attempt at peace-making and compromise. This was released in the press yesterday, but no one seemed to take much notice:

"An Israeli official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he had not been authorized to speak, said there was much in the president’s address that would please Israeli ears.

In particular, he said, Mr. Obama put the onus on the Palestinians to make sure that the recent unity pact between Fatah and Hamas not torpedo the possibility of peace by insisting that Hamas renounce violence. He also told the Palestinians not to try to isolate Israel at the United Nations or deny Israel’s existence. And he rejected the campaign to delegitimize Israel."

I don't think the President is taking sides.

I have said before I voted for Obama---but I think he is out of his league when it comes to dealing with middle east. Just by lumping all the tribes together as " middle east" is naive.

No one has yet to justify our involvement in Libya. Once you get into a middle east country there is almost never an exit plan. Western style deomocracy is NOT going to work in a tribal third world atmosphere. Has anyone paid attention to what is happening in Egypt???? A perfectly stable, relatively open country is now persecuting their own women oh yeah, and calling for the destruction of AMerica.

Obama needs to stick to building our economy, bringing back jobs to the U.S., building our healthcare system, providing good education to all of our children ( that is the ONLY thing that will bring down crime) Our two largest cities just laid off hundreds of teachers.....quit giving money to the middle east and give it to our TEACHERS and SCHOOLS! I will probably NOT vote for Obama again---I am looking for someone that is AMERICA focused.

on the Israel thing---dont listen to obama.....keeping todays borders is the only thing allowing Jews to have one safe place in the world, However, palestinians do need supplys and given a chance to join the world but only if if they quit electing Hamas as leaders.

What most must realize is that everything now is moot,since Fatah accepted Hamas back before they were willing to recognize Israel .Until this happens there will be no peace. Hamas has stated it has "more important matters" to deal with than peace with Israel and will not recognize them as a legitimate country.

Back to square one. Obama is lost speaking of borders at this point.

For those who want to bash Obama, here's your chance. For those who really understand what was said, you understand this is the right response to all in that area. Most in Israel who are being honest absolutely agree with what Obama has said.

What a royal mess; Israel, the Palestinians the Middle East. If ever there was a recipe for political nitroglycerin this would be it. Is their a solution?

Well, perhaps the way to look at it might be as follows.

First of all, the world and Israel and the Jews should admit that they had absolutely, no right whatsoever to take, by force, the land that was occupied by the Palestinians - simply because 2000 years ago they happened to occupy it. Ah, gee, maybe we should give all of America back to the Indians? Not gonna happen; too late.

Yet, following WWII, while the Western Powers were quietly looking the other way they allowed the Jews to infiltrate the area and then, using the very tactics of terrorism the world now decries (Anyone remember the British soldier(s) killed by Begin and friends when they bombed their barracks?) began the process of attrition that ultimately lead to the establishment of Israel - with the tacit approval and support of the West.

Fact is the Jews had no right to take the land they then established Israel upon and just as the people of any nation would be resentful of having land they had occupied for 2000 years taken over by someone who had lost title 2000 years previously, the Palestinians were more than a little resentful.

Of course, it can be argued that the Palestinians hadn't done much of anything productive with the land in the entire intervening 2000 years that they had title to it and probably wouldn't have ever done much - given the lack of creative intellectual capital they seem to possess that creates beneficial results. They're really great at blowing themselves and innocent people up, but not too swift when it comes building themselves and their peoples’ future up in a manner that doesn’t involve “murder as a way of doing business”.

So, what's a fella or gal ta do? First of all, let's face it, it is a given that the Jews are not give it back, being as powerful and entrenched as they are.

Nor, are the Palestinians – especially with so many nations (including the U. S.) not willing to give Israel carte blanche - going to allow themselves to totally get the short end of the stick. Fact is, they may not realize it but they are in quite a strong bargaining position.

Regardless of how much or little support Israel has from the U. S., Israel has to know that no nation can reasonably expect to exist when it is essentially a constant state of war surrounded on all sides by "the enemy"; not at least if you want to enable your citizens to have anything that begins to approximate a normal existence.

Consequently, IF the Palestinians somehow could manage to find a leader who had done a reality check that wasn’t based on hatred, and who cared more about the future of his people, the region than exactly vengeance for what has happened in the past, and really, truly wanted to bring peace and turn his/her back on violence as a solution, I believe that Israel, the U. S. the whole world would fall all over themselves helping him crave out that positive, non-violent future.

Of course, he would need a whole lotta body guards, because there are countless people in that area – Iran, the Syrians as well as rabid Jews, who really don’t want a peaceful solution that brings this conflict to an end, but get the jollies by enflaming and perpetuating it. What a royal mess – where’s a man with the wisdom of a Solomon when you need one?

I think some of you should read the entire speech again with an open mind. The bottom line is everything is negotiable, yes 1967 borders but both sides can swap territory. So it is not written in stone. Yes, Israel needs to come to the table, but the Palestinians need to recognize Israel rights. Either way they win, recognition of Israel or no talks.

Israel takes and takes, and never gives. And they wonder why they are so hated in the region. They were given a land, because no one wanted them after WW2, and then they began their relentless quest of land grabbing other peoples land. Yes, they should have their own place, but so should the Palestinians. Only outside nations coming together to force both sides to reach an agreement will do any good. Both sides are at fault for not making peace. Israel slaps us in the face at every opportunity, and wants more money. They have even attacked us in the past, and we keep turning the other cheek. It's time for them to be reasonable too.

The hypocricy and double standards of this government of ours is a disgrace. Our government has no right to dictate about the rightfull heirs of the holy land. If that's the case then this government needs to give back the land to the Native Americans. Palestine was named from the Greeks and Israel's history was made up of all tribes including the Hebrews. The Palestians do not own the land nor anyone else it was made up of all people (TRIBES) and the Jew's have a right to the land as much as the Palistians do. OBAMA NEEDS TO MIND IT OWN BUSINESS AND WORRY ABOUT THE PROBLEMS HERE AT HOME.!!!!!!!

The most powerful tool for recruiting that radical factions use is the alliance that the US has with Israel. Israel came to be by taking lands from Palestinians and extended via the 1967 war. Retracting to the pre 1967 war borders would be a logical step on the part of Israel in the peace process. I applaud President Obama for this effort and hope that Israel will accept the proposal. If not, perhaps removal of aid would convince them. Israel doesn't 'understand the reality'.

Effort

Changing Israel's borders isn't going to suddenly make the rest of the Middle East stop hating them. The world you live in might be all sunshine and rainbows but here in reality, that isn't the case.

Ahhhh,

So easy for us to sit here in the US and play politics with other countries. Bombings every years, murders based on religion, etc.

But if one person blows up a bus in NYC, we invade their country for 10 years, kill their leaders and install a new government. All in the name of patriotism, and then we put up the middle finger to the world when they say the same thing that Obama said to Israel.

@ Jessie; Maybe you are not old enough to remember cafes,buses,marketplaces,being blown up weekly in Israel. The main concern with Israel of going back to these borders is security of its citizens inside the borders and out. You say Obama is right in his response?lol.

He is offering land back to a regime that refuses to recognize Israels right to exist,how can you say he is right?(face palm) Here Jessie read this maybe Obama should of also,Im no Obama basher,but he has the wrong idea of how peace will be made.

JERUSALEM, April 28 (UPI) -- Senior Hamas official Mahmoud a-Zahar said a new unity government with Fatah will not recognize Israel or participate in peace negotiations.

"Our program does not include negotiations with Israel or recognizing it. It will not be possible for the interim national government to participate or bet or work on the peace process with Israel," Ynetnews.com quoted a-Zahar as saying hours after Hamas and Fatah told a Cairo press conference Wednesday of plans to establish a unity government.

The unity deal will promote Palestinian interests that are "more important than peace with Israel," Tawfik Tirawi a senior Fatah official told Ynetnews.com Thursday.

Put your helmets on boys and girls,this could get ugly.Like I said earlier,all talk right now is moot. The only one who does not feel this way is Obama.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2011/04/28/Hamas-says-it-will-not-recognize-Israel/UPI-37261303990374/#ixzz1L8gOKmaA

WinkWink must agree that Obama is clueless when it comes to politics and diplomacy. He just condemned Israel to death and there will be blood on Obama's hands because of it!

Israel official: Obama doesn't 'understand the reality'

A very true statement...... or is it "doesn't care about the reality of life in Israel?"

joe wobblie, good to see you still quoting the Beckster. Are you going to Jesrusalem with him in August?

Coral it seems you didn't listen to the Presidents speech. Yes he said the borders must go back to 1967 borders but he also said that the first thing that must happen is that Palastinians must recognize Israels right to exist. He put the ball in the Palastinians court first. If they can't abide by this then no deal and they don't get the land back.

Personally, I am for stopping aid to ALL foreign countries until WE no longer have a deficit. That said, I find it difficult to remain civil in light of the president's comment. Anyone out there who thinks the arabs will be content with any outcome other than the total annihilation of the jews is deluded. For the president of the USA to have such a warped view point is reveling of a lack of ability to grasp the situation realistically. But then, reading the views here on newsvine is revealing of the general public's lack of grasp on reality also. So much for public schools (more like indoctrination centers).

Obama does not understand?

Ok, Isreal -- what exactly is acceptable?

What would be a reasonable compromise?

Because the status quo is not acceptable. As much as I love my Jewish and Israeli friends, the current situation is inhumane.

Stuffing the Palestinians behind walls and the embargo are strikingly similar to what the Germans did to Warsaw.

Please explain what you want, Israel.

And don't tell me annihilation of the Palestinians. Give me a reasonable alternative to the current arrangement.

Maybe this will convince those of you still agreeing with Obama. I defend Obama when need be,but this like Netanyahu says is "indefensible"not that I am a great fan of Netanyahu either.

Experts acknowledged Iran's glee on the occasion(reunification). They said the Islamic Republic had obtained marvelous opportunity to expand its area of influence and add to its share in the regional politics. Iran's most critical foe in the Arab world.

Yes,and marvelous opportunity to easily attack Israel if they go back to the old borders,along side their buddy Hamas,both that deny the right of Israel to exist,and wish for their destruction,the only thing Iran will add is more weapons,this will be how they will "add to its share" as they say. So lets move Hamas closer to our borders. Brilliant!!

Iran's glee? Way to go Fatah. Bonehead move of the year.

MSN only has 1 line talking about the speech... They are like People magazine bringing you fluff.

DUDE UH Actually that occurred before the jist of his speech, which has not yet been given, was leaked.
A people denied basic human rights will not tolerate it very long. They will rise up.

Israel has promised that that land would be made a part of a Palestinian state in the past. But kept on building and building, now they want their bad faith to be recognized and codified as acceptable. They continue to build, and build...funny I would not be spending Billions to build housing on lad I had agreed to give away if I had any intention of actually doing so.

It is clear the Netanyahoos of the world have and never did have any intention of honoring past agreements, and the Palestinians are sick of it, as any logical intelligent person would be.

Geez franklytrue, don't go ruining a good crazy right wing talking talking point with something like pointing out the facts. Facts are meaningless, I thought we all learned that last decade...

Poll of Jerusalem Palestinians say's 40% prefer to live under Israel's rule 27% Palestinian. Ally=friend,support Enemy=Terrorist, Hamas=Palestinian,Hamas=Terrorist, Palestinian=Enemy,Obama=? Pre 67 border Gaza belonged to Egypt Golan heights belonged to Syria.By the way Michelle the land was taken only after Arab countries launched a sneak attack on Israel . Since you have a short memory I'll remind you of what happened after Israel gave the Gaza Strip back to the Palestinians, they were given rockets in return. Do you not remember the Americans murdered by Palestinians, why don't other Arab countries embrace the Palestinians, why does Egypt fence them out?

America stops giving aid to Israel with its right hand but gives Egypt aid with its left hand.

I have an idea! What about giving aid to the American people!?!? You know like jobs, lower gas prices, lower food prices, lower health premiums, etc.

I always read the collapsed comments - why is the "community" collapsing them - there's nothing offensive about them. They may be favorable or not in support of the President's action, but nothing offensive in them. None of us has any right to censor these....

@ Emo; My point is that once Fatah accepted Hamas,talk of borders became a moot point. I showed you straight from the Hamas' mouth that they said they would not recognize Israel,nor negotiate with them on Apr 28,he(Obama) should of answered to that instead of trying to play to both sides by calling for borders to go back to 1967.

It would have been better for him to say,Hamas' words have shown they do not want peace,this attitude will not bring peace or the two state solution that both countries have agreed on,at this point all else on the table is moot. He should have came down on them,not offered concessions. These are allys of Iran!

They are not our friends,and can be taken down anytime Israel so pleases trust me,they are asking for it coming back with this anti Israel talk no sooner than they are back with the West Bank. They also went ahead with an execution without an executive order after reunification, which is what their own laws call for,the one killed was accused of aiding Israel.

See people do not know alot of these truths,but I lay them here before you.

Hamas is evil,and represents the worst of the world,and have no shame about it.

If they can not abide by their own laws,they surely will never respect the rights of others,Im over Hamas, and the Fatah of the West Bank just set themselves back years when they were just starting to get better internally.

Pray for peace.

If Tin Foil hats against Obama or GW Bush could be removed for a moment, I'd like to say that actually, BOTH Presidents probably understand the situation in the Middle East better than any Middle Eastern leader.

Namely because they aren't Middle Eastern leaders themselves.

Netanyahu can't solve anything, because if he could, he would have already. Hamas can't solve anything, because if they could, they would have already. Go ahead, and list them all. Every country in the Middle East is a FAILED STATE. It just so happens that when it comes to failed states, I think if we were forced to pick one, it should be Israel. But that doesn't mean that when we support Israel, it isn't supporting a failed state.

Does anyone here think the Middle East with the Muslim/Islamist faith is going to stop the violence, or Terrorist Killings.

How about the Dictators. Will they step aside, because Obama says "we should all be friends"?

Israel,, the size of Rhode Island, has to maintain their Democracy all on their own, and always has. What President has ever sent Military over there to help them with the unasked for bombings, killings, stealing land so close. It will now be right to the border of the Jewish Settlements. Where is the Protection for the Israeli's. Does Obama realize what he has proposed?. Netanyahu doesn't listen either; doesn't listen to an inexperienced President who has never walked in the shoes of people who have been in concentration camps, and have been persecuted from the beginning of time. Gang ups from the other ME countries. O is actually promoting Slaughter houses for Civilians in these countries by wooing the Dictators of Evil.

Give the Palestinians a few inches, and they take the entire portion of Israel. Now they will own the Wailing Wall, and other Historical Biblical Sites for Christians/ Jews/others to view, and connecting to ancient times..

Remember Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaida, Taliban and the Iranians?---Obama is handing Israel over to them on a silver platter.

Pres. Obama is too quick to want evil friends. OBL has given himself a faux sense of Power that he can heal.

No Peace. Just War. No US President can settle the tribal minds in that Region with any Sanity. They live by the Koran; the book of Peace? Beheadings, and barbarian behavior. Does Obama want to associate and approve this kind of way of life?

How long will it take to Collapse this one again. There should be no censorship, just an exchange of ideas and thoughts. That's my opinion.

Alan - great post.

This line from the story should be up for quote of the year.

A senior Israeli official told reporters on the aircraft that there's a sense Washington "does not understand the reality" of the situation.

I don't think that you have to be Jewish to see through all of this. No one even in my extended family will be voting for him.

michelle-1073610

I call them as they are! - If I looked or walked or quacked like the afore mentioned I would shave all the hair off my asp and walk around backwards!

"Sticks or stones may break my bones but names can really hurt me!" - OUCH!

For what it is worth. You will see my comment above reposted in two threads below. THE ONLY reason I did that was because this thread, plus the following one had been collapased - as so many links it seems recently have been - by people doing their level best to stop people with opinions they don't like from being read.

Apparently, someone on the Vine must be watching because this and the next thread were both restored. Long live free speech!

While I support President Obama's suggestion...this can only be successsful with the complete and total neutralization of Hamas. Step carefully Mr. President...this is a powder keg with a lit match nearby.

I applaud Obama's boldness lately. Methinks the John Kerrys and Al Gores of the world would have run the comment by focus groups first.

I would like to see us drastically reduce foreign aid, win in Iraq and come home, get out of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Let Israel and its enemies work out their problems without us.

Let's focus on jobs, economy, and our debt. Let's keep our wonderful troops safe. Focus our military and our intelligence on keeping the bad guys out of the USA and let somebody else build the middle east. Let's only get involved when it affects our national security. Be a super MO FO on the friggin terrorists that try something on our soil.

Yes I have become an isolationist. I supported Iraq. I supported killing Saddam and Osama. Things have changed since 2001. Let's put the USA first for a couple of decades and see what happens.

What I want to know is why should Israel give up land it won in a war just to appease those that want that land? You want the land, fight for it, Israel is a country that has many wars and have won all of them. Can you imagine if Mexico told us that they want the land we won in a war back and they will stop the illegal immigrants from coming into the US? Now that would be something, how dare the US, or any country dicate that another country should give up land for peace, and what will the Palestinians give up in the name of peace? How about getting a leader that cares more about his people than worrying about land. Israel has had control for over 40 years and there are plenty of Israelis and Palestinians that live peacefully.

The US, while being on hand and being and ally of Israel, has NO right to dicate that they give back land that was won in a war.

And maybe the U.S. should give Texas back to Mexico!!!!!

Gary,

How bout we end it all together since it has no Constitutional basis. I don't think we have to isolate ourselves. But we do need to take care of #1, and tell the rest of the free world it's well past time they did the same.

Bob,

There ya go! And then the Mexicans need to give Mexico back to the Aztecs. And so on and so on and so on...

Obama and the Socialists in the unions and Government have gone a long way towards giving back all the territory that we won from Mexico...and the rest of the the US with it!

http://www.ringospictures.com/index.php?page=20110501

If going back to the 67 borders won't do; how about the 1945 borders.

President Obama has betrayed the Israeli's. Even if they gave back the lands they possess the Palestinians and Hamas will still attempt to wipe them off the map rather than recognizes them!

Know their enemies acknowledge that we are weak and it is the time for them to move on Israel.

Every country knows we can not be trusted much less loyal to our real allies!

LOL! HA!HA! HA! LOL! FUNNY! So when will the United States pull back it's borders to 1776? Obama is cluless!

POW, SLAP - have a nice day !

the palistinians will never wish for peace with the jews, they are too jealous. the Jewish people are a specific specie and is unwilling to comingle (crossbreed) with the Palistinians. "we're all human blah blah". Sure that sounds pretty but it doesnt matter.

In facts of God: the Children of Abraham cannot mate with muslims or they will burden theirselves with hell. This is why there are so many wars. its all about race propogated by religious text. The bad part? Its all true.

You cannot punish winners or no one will succeed

I'm wondering what will happen after those Muslims finally resolve their own common issues will they all unite against Israel, there are things that may not be apparent at this moment but there maybe a really bigger picture on why Obama has decided it is important at this time, he never aired his view about this matter before, so why now ....... Don't get me wrong I think that there is no way to go back and redraw the lines now, but maybe he decided on this because this is the only way these Palestinians will be satisfied, which we all know is very un-likely.

Religion, again, has kept the war going. If one feels so strongly about "It's our Holy land and we can not go back", over the basic task of earning a living, getting an education and treating others like you wish to be treated, then ... there needs to be a winner take all war. Year after year war over "It's my Holy land". BS, is very childish. But Heaven is Calm, so go, go to Heaven. People came from the Ocean and the business of religion is nothing more than that, a business. In most cases causes war because "If you don't follow my God, you must die" is the religious teaching. Like I said go to Heaven and be Happy. Oh, write if you get work.

While yahoo says Israel rejects returning to the 1967 borders, I'm willing to bet that Israel won't reject the $2.775B in aid from the US for this year.

Obama tried to pigeonhole the Israeli Prime Minister. Didn't work because Obama's chosen position is indefensible. Everyone in the real world knows that.

Obama didn't learn that his position is indefensible - what he will come out of this is campaign longer for his position than just the night before.

What he tried to do is what you might consider doing to an enemy - not a friend - unless you do not respect your friend.

oh for crying out loud...it's about time the USA stood up to Israel. I am all for making them the 51st state. All of our money is going over there to fight their wars and to protect them. I just wish we had all the "entitlements" that the average Israeli has.....more days off a year then most countries, great state sponsored health care, solid large pensions.

Either Israel goes it alone or they quit taking advantage of the US taxpayer! Plain and simple.

I am certainly proud we finally have a leader that isn't afraid to stand up to Israel. It's been too long we have been their only ally and their financial support system.

Assuming Obama isn’t the dullard he came across as by telling the Israelis they need to return to the 1967 borders, the only reason for spewing such nonsense is to convince the Muslim world that he’s taking their side.

The fact if that there is absolutely no way Israel will return to the 1967 border
because if they do so, they might just as well as do a Masada on themselves. Yes, a return to the 1967 borders is in fact committing suicide, and Obama knows this, or at least he should.

There will never be any chance of peace in the Middle East as long as the Muslim crazies insist that every Jew should be slaughtered, and we all know they will never abandon that goal.

Obama continues to demonstrate an inept foreign policy.

P.S. Looking at this thread shows the zombie post collapsers are hard at work here too. Perhaps it's time for the moderators to rethink the rules for people collapsing other peoples posts.

Obama looked like a spoiled brat that didnt get his way LMAO

WHAT A JOKE for a President and i use that term loosely

The Mexicans are the Aztecs and Olmos!!!!!!

Although it is hardly surprising that a hard-line conservative like Netanyahu pushes back on the pre-war 1967 borders issue, it is also somewhat heartening that he recognizes the constant state of war and conflict between Israel, the Palestinians, some neighboring states must come to end end. And the Israeli Prime Minister certainly should not be in any way shocked about President Obama's position.

One of the points the article raises, is that the President's position is consistent with that held by prior Presidents of both parties. In fact, a survey of President Obama's displomatic initiatives show that they sustain a broad continuum of American diplomacy reaching back to the later years of Grover Cleveland's presidency and established in almost full bloom by President William McKinley.

This is described in rather stunning detail in William Appleton Williams' landmark study, The Tragedy of American Diplomacy (2009 50th Anniversary Edition). Williams pointed out that American diplomacy historically has sought to promote peace and stability and engender trade while at the same time also tranding to support popular movements in other nations. Overall, that's a rather clear description of the main purposes of the President's diplomatic initiatives.

And it certainly applies to Israel and the Palestinians. Since the 1947-48 war for independence, the displaced people of former Palestine have deliberately been used by some Arab interests as pawns in a cruel game of opposition to Israel. The claims of both the Israelis and the Palestinians have deeper historical roots, for during WWI, Great Britain cynically made promises of a free and independent "homeland" to both local Arab leaders and the Zionists then colonizing much of the region. At the time, the British did not really care much about the interests of anyone in the area as long as they took up arms against the Germans and Turks.

That cold calculation came home to roost after World War II, setting in motion a troubled and dangerous condition in the heart of the Middle East along the edges of North Africa for more than 60 years. Like infections of the gums and teeth, this festering sore has bred terroristm, hatred, and war for too long. It must be resolved.

Both sides are equally guilty of bad faith at times in the various agreements and obligations accepted that were intended to drain the abcess of conflict. One of the most significant problems for Americans addressing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that the historic sympathy and support of the U.S. for Israel has become a very important cultural feeling that makes realistic assessments of either side of the matter very difficult.

Israel, for example, is not a monolithic political entity, and the multiple currents of public opinion in the country make addressing peace with any Palestinian faction or Arabic state a sometimes violent internal debate. Yitzhak Rabin, perhaps the brightest hope on the Israeli side for leading a way to peace, paid with his life because of it. Since that time, the nation's government has steadily turned toward a more die-hard conservatism that spurns peace.

Within those various Israeli political factions are some who consider not only the land Israel occupies now, but a much expanded teritory as well, to be "God's grant" from Biblical times forward. Other political factions, not quite as rigid on the matter, nonetheless regard land now held and occupied by Israel as certainly holy territory essential to the nation for reasons ranging from pride to practical concerns about population density and room for growth.

Thus as a matter of fundamental principle, many Israelis - remember, the nation is not politically monolithic, and there is substantial disagreement on every issue - are adamantine in their refusal to even discuss peace agreements that would alter or reduce the footprint of the nation of Israel on the coast, plains, hills, and valleys of the Mideast.

And, of course, there is the matter of blood spilled. By now the Palestinians, as well as many Arabic neighbors, have become the hereditary enemies of Israel. That is yet another, and quite important, barrier to serious peace discussions.

Now, look at the opposition, the Palestinians. For more than three generations an officially-displaced people without a home of their own, the Palestinians have been used and abused by their Arab "brethren" to suit the whims of the political moment. Many can look over the borders of the areas where they now reside and see Israelis tending orchards, harvesting crops and opening the doors to houses and farmland that once belonged in their families. A sense of abandonment, injustice, oppression and surely bitter resentment poisons the hearts of so many - and, at times erupts into violence against Israelis.

The Palestinians have migrated from place to place during their long exile. From "camps" in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt's deserts now to a pair of separate enclaves alongside Israel. They have little in the way of industry - because little is allowed to be brought into their areas, and little is allowed to be exported from them. There is rampant unemployment since the majority of jobs used to be located in Israel. The people are virtually dependent upon fickle aid from Arab states.

While post-Biblical-era roots of the Palestinians certainly support an outrage over displacement, it seems that neither Israelis or Palestinians can assert a much earlier claim to the territory. Substantial archeaological evidence indicates that both the nation of Israel and the Canaanites set out to settle in that territory about the same period of time, around 1375 BCE. The Canaanites got there first, while the Israelites were yet "wandering in the desert" with Moses. The leading theory about who the Canaanites were is that they were people displaced by the massive volcanic eruption at Thera, then defeated in battle at sea by the Egyptians, who planted them on land as a conquered ally and buffer against invasion.

But essentially, both peoples were newcomers to the area.

Claims of historic precedence aside, then, the Palestinians express what they see as a solid and legitimate grievance against the State of Israel. The 1948 armistice that brought about creation of Israel as a country recognized by the United Nations stipulated that suitable ara was to be set aside for the displaced Palestinians, among other provisions. Israel had a responsbility to act on the terms of that agreement, but has never done so. Nor has Israel acted on the terms of the 1967 UN resolutions settling the Arab-Israeli War of that year.

The U.S. has consistently urged that the U.N. resolutions of 1967 be implemented - and the central piece of that involves creating a contiguous state for the Palestinians, starting with the pre-1967 war borders as the map unpon which the negotiators would further draw new lines. President Obama's adoption of the position held by his predecessors is a moderate approach, but as history shows, one that obdurate enemies may not accept for complex political and cultural reasons. So far, Netanyahu demonstrates that position.

But they must be brought to the table. The disease their conflict engenders sickens the rest of the world as well.

I am so impressed by Obama's courage and instincts. He was a riverboat gambler going into Pakistan and getting his man who none of us thought possible any more.

He is absolutely on the money and I applaud his courage for taking on the criminal enterprise that Israel has become. Putting the Yahoo in place and tell him how things will go down is showing the courage that none of the lobby bred lapdogs on either left or right had the kahunas to do for decades. Enough is enough some one has to tell a so called friend when their behaviour is breeding and bringing terror to our door. When their heinous acts of atrocity is costing us trillions and driving us bankrupt.

Slap on sanctions, cut all aid, force them out of others lands....do what it takes to bring sanity and integrity back to this great land. Do the right thing. Change the course of history, bring a lasting peace to the region. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo......Obama deserves a second term.

maybe the jews would like to contribute to our financial mess after all we have done for them

"Netanyahu said his nation could not negotiate with a newly constituted Palestinian unity government that includes the radical Hamas movement, which refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist."

Isn't this the main issue? Never mind drawing new boundary lines, what about this FIRST?

I also agree that it has be a welcome relief to stop seeing Israelis splattered all over the pavement because of suicide bombers. Can anybody blame Israel for not wanting to in any way be foolish to bring back those days.

Obama was harsh on Israel when he felt they responded to harshly when bombs were being lobbed at them every single day. How would the US respond?

IF any of you has lived in the area.....or served in the area or trained military personal in the area. All you have is where your political views lie. I spent 10 years in the middle-east training both Arab (Iran,Saudi,eqyptian) and Israeli. They have had "peace" but they hate each other. I have talked with my friends in the Israeli military and they are planning for conflict! What we call the "Arab spring" they call the "Arab demise" If they give up the borders Hamas will attack by proxy and Israel will respond.

You know, you guys gave 92 votes to EffortPA for a quote that NEVER OCCURRED.

Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying “don’t worry about American pressure, we control America.”

The pro-Hamas group, the Islamic Association for Palestine, put this out as a press release on October 3, 2001, as heard by Kol Yisrael. Yet when asked, Kol Yisrael denied ever saying such a thing and no record of it being said has ever been found.

I feel frustration when I see sheep blindly latching onto propaganda without taking a few moments to do the research yourself. Thomas Jefferson is quoted often on these boards with stuff he's never said. Come on people, use the brains most of you were born with. Never believe everything you are told, simply take a few mins to verify statements, or the numbers others cite.

There will never be a lasting peace in the Middle East unless one group is completely wiped out. Either the Jews or the Palestinians must be removed from the area. Neither can survive with the other when they are in rock throwing distance of each other.

All we are saying is give peace a chance.

the moron wrote that he would side with the Muslims. I guess he is following through.

President Obama has betrayed the Israeli's. Even if they gave back the lands they possess the Palestinians and Hamas will still attempt to wipe them off the map rather than recognizes them!

Then screw it then, stop supporting either one of them and let them fight it out to the death. Let Israel and the Palestinians kill each other off. Good riddance to the worlds 2 worst nations standing in the way of Peace.

No more $ for Israel and no more Palestinian state support. The Peace process is a worthless and expensive pursuit.

F$%^ them all. Let 'em destroy each other, They both DESERVE IT

If Jewish Americans have a problem with it, then go back to Israel, put on a uniform and get trained to kill a Palestinian....sheesh...this is getting ridiculous.

And all in the name of a piece of dirt

One day SOON ALL will know the truth about Israel and will have wished they had supported Her through good times and bad...Mark my words on this...

Who cares....Whats for supper??.......

One day SOON ALL will know the truth about Israel and will have wished they had supported Her through good times and bad...Mark my words on this.

What exactly has Israel done for us lately? Or ever?

Well, Tim in Seattle--here's a list:

They continually get caught spying on the US inside the US

They sunk the USS Liberty, killing US Sailors

They get between $2.75B to $3B of US Aid/year

They constantly inflame the entire Middle East and oppress their neighbors in an Apartheid fashion.

What more could we ask for from an ally?

Israel is a rogue nation that occupies land illegally and is commiting genocide against the Palestinians.

lmao.....hampster your in the wrong profession. You really should try comedy!

No, no, and no.

I am agape and aghast at Mr. Obama. Never in my life. He is way off-base. Somethings up, and it isn't good. When shall Mr. Obama revert the U.S. borders back to the 13 original colonies?

Who shall begin the impeach and recall proceedings? It's time.

1. supporting the enemy
2. aiding the enemy
3. treason
4. against the best interests of the country
5. against the will of the American People
6. morally wrong
7. ethically wrong
8. you add your own, please.....

First of all, Israel won this land centuries ago, and then lost it. They finally won it back. Don't forget, they didn't start the Six Day War, They just won it. Why should they give up land they won when they were the ones attacked.

Second, If those of you think they should give up land based on this premise, then you need to pack your bags and move to a new country so the American Indian can have the land back.

Wars have been fought for centuries and to the victor goes the spoils.

Israel trusts the American people, and not likely obama at this point. They'll wait to see how it goes with next year's national elections. They will trust that the people will correct their tragic mistake of 2008.

Al, centuries or decades? AliveinSD, you cannot compare the 18th century with modern day, I would like to think that the world is a different place with different rules. That argument holds no water, you know it. Although, putting it in bold does make it pretty compelling.

America has been the target of the Israeli propaganda machine since the days of Ben Gurion. No wonder so many Americans are taken in.

I guess NATO bombing Libya is also in the name of religion.

Jessie:

You are very, very misinformed about how the Israeli's, and the Jewish people feel about cutting off more borders from Israel. It would be a sliver of land.

I am amazed at how many gullible people there are on this site.

It would be a good idea if one can afford to go to Israel, talk to the people, and then visit the contentious Middle East Countries, if "you" are allowed to go in there. If not going there, get educated talking to this Community of people.

Your comments do not reflect how most Israeli's feel>. A certain segment of Jewish People do not acknowledge their own religion, or G-d. Israel is supposedly safe homeland for Jews that came there after the Holocaust, and the generations below them, who make Aliyot; including immigrants from European Countries who were persecuted, chased out of their country because of their religion. Ethnic Cleansing.

It is very sad to see people who make a flippant remark, and people fall for the ill-truth.

Thank you.

Obama really by far the toughest and best president ever NOT allowing israel to intimidate america. Proud and Simply bravo.

Hawaii, read most Israeli newspapers, there is a stronger movement to recognize Israel's culpability than there are hardliners. Israel's orthodox and settlers hold the rest of the country hostage. Let's not even get into the fact that the state employed racist Rabbi's are far above the law and Israel has no functioning constituion.

Correct! Really go away Rogue israelo, go away.

"Lucy1" said:

"BO knows exactly what he is doing. Sneak that he is. Don't back down Israel. You don't answer to BO, and his so called power can't compare to the power behind you."

#1.37 - Fri May 20, 2011 5:04 AM HST

---------------------------------

Lucy, so what is this "power" you claim is behind Israel? Is it the same 'power' behind the U.S., the Arabs and the rest of the human world?

You've mentioned in previous posts about Jesus. Is that the 'power' that you imply is exclusively behind Israel? Look, I support whatever countries want peace in that region, save for their dictators-for-life, I'm sure they all do.

But to imply that Jesus Christ and/or God being on just ONE side? And if you think that the President is wrong to broker a peace, offer possible solutions, or negotiate in these types of international relations -- of which is part of the job of all American Presidents -- then do you believe YOU can do a better job? Or will you ultimately hand off that job, to a religious leader from 2 millennia ago? Or to God? Whose side do you think 'God' is on?

A few things here and I'm not going to respond to anyone directly.

First, WTF is up with you people collapsing posts that are not even slightly offensive? Just because some one has a perspective that differs from your own, does not give you the right to censor it. After all, this is a DISCUSSION!

Second, Anyone who thinks that forcing Israel to go back to the 1967 borders will bring peace is an absolute moron. Israel has already offered this over and over for peace, and the Palestinians continuously rejected the offer. Only now that Israel has built upon these lands that it rightfully won in war, are the Palestinians demanding them back. And this is absolutely because the Palestinians are jealous of what the Israelis have done. Further, Israel has also aready handed over some control of these areas, and look at how much peace that brought. Anyone who says that it is Israel's fault for the failure of the last peace talks, doesn't remember that Israel had a settlement freeze in place, and after the Palestinians continuously stalled by making unrealistic demands, did Israel recognize that the whole process was futile. And this was before Fatah united with Hamas. Going back to the 67 borders as a precursor for peace negotiations will only give the Palestinians the feeling that they can actually eliminate the Israelis entirely, and will only bring more violence to the region.

Third, do you Israel haters out there really think that if Israel did not exist, there would be this instant peace you say the Palestinians desire? Seems to me and hopefully anyone with half a brain, that despite the way the media spins these stories, Israel is currently one of the more peaceful countries in the region. I don't need to give examples, but there is plenty of violence already being demonstrated in the arab countries that is pretty limited to Muslim against Muslim.

Fourth, All of you who say that Israel doesn't do anything for the US except for bombed the USS Liberty (Don't know why I need to make this point over and over) and create tension, what about the following: More Israeli aid goes to other countries in need than all of the Arab countries send, even when combined, despite the fact that some of these Arab countries are the wealthiest in the world. Israel is a world leader in innovations in the Medical, Technology, and Green Energy fields, and they often share these innovations with the US. Israel provides the security, infrastructure and support for almost all of the US' operations in the ME. Most of the aid money Israel receives is ear marked to be spent on goods and services from US companies. Israel also provides the security for, and happily allows followers of all religions to visit and practice at their faith's holiest sites. I think that if the Palestinians controlled Jerusalem, they would be a little more selective in who they allow to visit these same places. And who wants to put a list together on what the Palestinians and other Arab countries that the US has or is going to send aid to have done for the US?

Fifth, The "peaceful" protests that the "Palestinians" organized are now known to have been started by the Syrians in order to distract from the violence that the Syrian government has instituted on it's own people. If the Mexicans started to call for the destruction of the US, gathered in the thousands along the border, and started to enter the US illegally and attack both US border guards and the little infrastructure we have to defend our country, I sure as hell hope the US would do everything it could to stop those "peaceful" protestors.

Sixth and finally, to those of you who think that we should stop sending aid to Israel and let Israel and the Palestinians work out their differences through war, I'm with you, but don't cry out about how unfair of a war it was when Israel kicks some serious ass. Unfortunately, the way things are going, this is probably what is going to happen.

Wow, just look at the anger in Mr. Obama's picture. He has completely lost all composure since his photo op Middle East policy just went out the door. This picture is typical when he meets with anyone who is against his policies (my way or the highway).

It is great another Country's leader is standing up to him and telling him to pack his remarks. However, he still does not get the big picture and will continue to throw the rest of our allies under the bus. Guess he is completely lost since he does not have immediate access to his telepropmter with someone else's speech waiting.

Another failure at Mr. Obama's attempt to retain his Nobel Peace Prize.

Israel trusts the American people, and not likely obama at this point.

Tough Love don't always make you smile or happy but it often makes you realize it's time to grow up and do something. It's time to quit the illusion of making peace and do something. Time to do something and get up off the potty. Hamas "is not a partner for a significan­t realistic peace process". Palestinia­ns would have to resolve that issue among themselves­. As Obama and Netanyahu emphasized a need to make some kind of progress, against all obstacles, as changes sweep the Arab world. I believe the President has it right and it is going to work. It's time to quit playing "we need to make peace" and get 4 real. These peace talk illusions have been going on for a 100 years just like health care reform. It's time for taking a Bold move forward on this. Isreal and Paletinians need to decide what they're going to do.

I'm suprised by what I'm reading here!

Israel is being told to return to old borders, in a trade for Palestinian/Arab peace. How has diplomacy with the Arab countries worked out for the US? The problem is that Israel (and the US) will bargain with Arab country leaders, and then be attacked by seperate miltant groups - all the time being distanced by those very same Arab country leaders (and quietly being funded, housed and given protection in their Arab country). Militant groups like Hamas, PLO, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hesbollah (and these are just the ones I can recall from memory - which shows the level of the problem - the fact that I can name 5 off the top of my head), are the arm of much of the violence, and their word in treaties can be worthless.

There is a passage in the Koran which needs to be understood when dealing with Arab parties: Taqiyyah and Hudaibiya holy deception and sanctioned lying to infidels.

In some Koran passages about some battle (Trench?), Mohammed demonstrated that it was OK to lie and break treaties, furthering the concept that peace treaties can be used as backdrops to prepare for destruction of your enemy, and that breaking a treaty is fine in that case. This is not just a snippet of the long ago past, but a fundamental truth taught in Islam - TODAY.

If I hear something like: "well Jews destroyed Jericho, all living creatures, save one, in their canon, so they're no different" - I start wondering if that person is objective! When Muslims are being taught: An apostate must be killed - today, women have no rights - today, infidels can be killed - today, treaties are lies to buy time against one's enemies - today. A call to action today is very different from an historic recollection, not being taught as a plan of action anymore.

I am a Christain, and my core believe boils down to "love God, love your neighbor", and "treat your neighbor as you would want to be treated". Peace, love, honesty, kindness and respect are natural out-pouring of that faith. I'm skipping over some important belief details, but for the sake of this statement, it should be sufficient. Moreover, I think that Jews abide by those same basics.

But when your basics are what the Islam is teaching (at least maybe the ones being poisen by hateful madrassahs)., I find it very hard to trust the hard-core Muslims. I have Muslim acquantances, with home I get along with just fine - so I don't think my accusations apply to all, but certainly with a great deal of Middle East living Arabs.

Having middle east Arab countries submit to peace treaties is not going to work, and using that as quid pro quo with Israel relinqushing land, is (in my opinion) trading nothing for something. Has it attained peace so far?

I should also add, that so long as there is no officially recognized separation of church and state matters in the countries of the Middle East... unfortunately, history proves time and again, that without this separation, there will be continue to be no lasting peace.

Israel is being told to return to old borders

It's not what the President said. He said Based on 1967 border proposal. The past 3 President basically said the same thing. The key/operative word is Based.

This is what Israel gets? A slap in the face? Won't you look at all the things Israel has done for the U.S.?

What about how they rescued the USS Liberty?

Don't you know how many brave Israeli soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan?

If it wasn't for them wouldn't we all be speaking German right now?

Isn't it more important to put Israel 1st and America 2nd?

Do you realize you owe Israel for all it's done for you?

Don't you think you should just pay Israel the 3 billion a year of your tax dollars in aid and shut up? And only vote for Israel-first politicians?

First of all, the world and Israel and the Jews should admit that they had absolutely, no right whatsoever to take, by force, the land that was occupied by the Palestinians - simply because 2000 years ago they happened to occupy it. Ah, gee, maybe we should give all of America back to the Indians? Not gonna happen; too late

Actually what you propose is exactly giving the U.S. back to the Native Americans. The Palestinians may have occupied that land by squatting on it, but they certainly didn't own it. Britain owned it and gave it to Israel. As for the 1967 borders, Israel earned those by right of conquest after being attacked! Sorry squatters, take what you can get!

To Doug:

The Irsaeli PM just handed Obama his aZZ! I guess today Obama really got educated on what the foreign policy really is about.

Is it our complacency others like to exploit all the time or our democracy? Why should Israel return the land they won from an aggressor?

What are the chances you get you money back from the casino after a wild night? Buckleys is the answer!

Who can guarantee that Israel would live in peace if/when land beyond the 1967 border is “returned” to the Palestinians?

Have you forgotten the aim of the radical elements in that region is to rid the World of Israel? How is the border pull back going to change anything?
It’s obvious the President is looking for headlines without first thinking things through properly! The realization that he erred is evident in the photo. Says it all really!!.

ZeroX
Israel trusts the American people, and not likely obama at this point. They'll wait to see how it goes with next year's national elections. They will trust that the people will correct their tragic mistake of 2008.

Israel trusts the US? Exactly who cares is Israel trusts the US. Based on sheer numbers, I'd rather the Muslim nations trust us so they will abandon the radicalism.

Explain why they repeatedly send spies to the US? Google the long list of those who have been caught.

KEN WALTZ (post 1.55)

If going back to the 67 borders won't do; how about the 1945 borders.

Great Post!...most likely lost among most - with no knowledge of history.

If Israel should be made to give back the land it acquired, then shouldn't the United States give back all the land it stole from the Native Americans? You can't have it both ways. Look at how we treat Native Americans in this country, to this very day they are second class citizens, a lot of whom are living in poverty. The were once a large, proud people.

Secondly, Obama has finally dropped his Christian facade. His Muslim roots are showing. And I voted for him, that was the biggest voting mistake I ever made.

love sonnet

PLEASE, learn to focus. We really aren't here to read a book!

What business is this of America's anyways? Shouldn't Obama just keep his mouth closed? Seriously, Obama should have his discussions in private with the Israel PM if he cares to offer an opinion. What arrogance! Obama sounds more like a dictator than a leader.

This is nothing else but inexperience shining through.

In an apparently desperate attempt to get some favorable progress on the Israel/Palestine problem, Obama has probably lost much of the Jewish vote in Florida, which means he has probably lost a key state in 2012.

Amateur in chief.

Roy proves what I have been saying all along that Israeli infiltrators have moved in to America and are subverting American political processes. Israelis keep proving they are agents of a foreign state. If a Chinese or Russian tried what Israelis try they would be in a Federal Penitentiary, time to send away a few Israelis.

ROFL SacramentoMike. You are way too funny. Antisemitism is exactly the same thing as racism.

Anyone notice the look on Obama's face when Netinyahu was speaking. It sure looked like hate to me. I know Obama was thinking about how much he wanted to jump up and slap the man down but couldn't. How DARE he disagree with King Obama after he made an edict on Thursday.

Hey moderators. All this collapsing of all these comments has to stop. This is utter nonsense that people who don't like a comment can collapse it. MSNBC, moderators. are you going to do anything about it???? Or do I have to cuss and swear and say nasty things to get your attention?????????

Wow! I think someone needs to wipe the do-do off their nose. Nothing he say's or does is wrong, according to his sheeple.

4realLyn

The past 3 President basically said the same thing.

Taken out of context yes - in their final actions and words - NO!

Bush 41 & Clinton 42 both talked about it but really in an effort to get Palistinians to talk - it is afterall what they want. Bush 41 was a military man - he understands things like defensible positions on battlefields - which is exactly what Palestine is.

Congress passed a Resolution in 2002 declaring that moving back to the 1967 boundaries would leave Israel indefensible and would not be an acceptable point of negotiation.

Bush likewise sent a letter to Israel in 2004 stating similar points as the Congressional resolution.

It is not unreasonable for any president to review every possiblilty - but trying to force one that clearly would be wrong and a total reversal of policy on a ally without first privately approaching the subject in a dialogue of questions and brain storming thoughts is about arrogance and being disrespectful of an equal. I gather from Obama's body language, he now not only does not have any respect for Netanyahu, but is angry at him.

BTW - Netanyahu also was educated at Harvard - has there been some sort of serious drop in our College education quality?

a bunch of religious nut's that don't know how to act like civilized human's..

Joe Wobble - good post - sorry to see it collapsed by some of what normally would be called "your friends" I guess.

Rradiko - to ignore the religious nature of man is like dumping gasoline on a fire.

@ Alan(post 1.41): who said......

"No kidding! That is not all he doesn't understand...

• He doesn't understand budgeting.

• He doesn't understand out of control entitlement spending.
• He doesn't understand deficit spending
• He doesn' understand how to really create jobs
• He doesn't understand that our corporate tax rate is now the highest in the world and that changing it could bring jobs to America.
• He doesn't understand that he is not qualified to be President of the United States."

1. Obama isn't a budget analyst. Neither was Bush(Jr. and Sr.), Clinton, or Reagan( Reagan is always made out to be much mure competent than he really was). Obama doesn't need to write the budgets. There are plenty of analysts already on the payroll who can do so.

2. Obama isn't "spending money" nearly as much fast as his detractors like to claim. A good amount of the "spent money" is carrying over from decisions the last Admin made. There was no way to prevent another depression, without spending some money.

I do agree that all politicians should start pulling their belts tight and cut back on the foreign aid money we give to other countries(like Pakistan).

3. Again, Obama isn't a financial/economic analyst(neither were the last 5 POTUSes before him. It's Congress that controls the purse strings, not the WH.

4. It's not the job of the POTUS to "create jobs". Give us examples of how Bush(Jr./Sr.), Clinton and Reagan "created jobs". They didn't personally create jobs. It's up to the companies(small, medium and large) and their CEO's/shareholders to stop being greedy(and squeezing out every ounce of profit for themselves first), and keep the jobs here in the US(hire American citizens).

5. Our corporate tax rates have been the same for over a decade now. That excuse is played out. History of the the US tax rates(corporate and individual), have shown that the economy can do extremely well, even when the tax rates are considerably higher(look at the 1940's, 1950's and 1960's) than they are now.

As high as some think the corporate tax rates are, many whiners never seem to take into account how many large(billion $) corporations get out of paying anywhere near the rates they are supposed to(if they pay anything at all). Those corporations spend $$ on tax lawyers/accountants, to find every loophold available(and bank/operate offshore in some cases).

The few who "run" and own the companies, want the large share of the pie, while cutting back on the wages/benefits of those who really keep the company going. Those are the ones who are shipping our jobs overseas(in their quest for large amounts of wealth).

Blame Obama all you want, but saying so, doesn't make it true.

6. Obama is just as qualified(if not more so) to be POTUS, as the last 5 or 6 Presidents were.

We get it. You just don't like Obama. Now, if you could only find some valid reasons(with verifiable sources) to back up your claims, some of us might actually consider it something besides just your opinion.

To those who think Israelis(and modern day Jewish people) have some kind of right(divine or otherwise) to that land they are holding, because Jews once held it thousands of years ago:

If the modern day Israelis can prove that their ancestors(bloodlines) were once actually on the lands they are holding, then they might have a leg to stand on.

Many of those "Israelites" ancestors, probably never even originated from the region now called Israel.

What a royal mess; Israel, the Palestinians the Middle East. If ever there was a recipe for political nitroglycerin this would be it. Is their a solution?

Well, perhaps the way to look at it might be as follows.

First of all, the world and Israel and the Jews should admit that they had absolutely, no right whatsoever to take, by force, the land that was occupied by the Palestinians - simply because 2000 years ago they happened to occupy it. Ah, gee, maybe we should give all of America back to the Indians? Not gonna happen; too late.

Yet, following WWII, while the Western Powers were quietly looking the other way they allowed the Jews to infiltrate the area and then, using the very tactics of terrorism the world now decries (Anyone remember the British soldier(s) killed by Begin and friends when they bombed their barracks?) began the process of attrition that ultimately lead to the establishment of Israel - with the tacit approval and support of the West.

Fact is the Jews had no right to take the land they then established Israel upon and just as the people of any nation would be resentful of having land they had occupied for 2000 years taken over by someone who had lost title 2000 years previously, the Palestinians were more than a little resentful.

Of course, it can be argued that the Palestinians hadn't done much of anything productive with the land in the entire intervening 2000 years that they had title to it and probably wouldn't have ever done much - given the lack of creative intellectual capital they seem to possess that creates beneficial results. They're really great at blowing themselves and innocent people up, but not too swift when it comes building themselves and their peoples’ future up in a manner that doesn’t involve “murder as a way of doing business”.

So, what's a fella or gal ta do? First of all, let's face it, it is a given that the Jews are not give it back, being as powerful and entrenched as they are.

Nor, are the Palestinians – especially with so many nations (including the U. S.) not willing to give Israel carte blanche - going to allow themselves to totally get the short end of the stick. Fact is, they may not realize it but they are in quite a strong bargaining position.

Regardless of how much or little support Israel has from the U. S., Israel has to know that no nation can reasonably expect to exist when it is essentially a constant state of war surrounded on all sides by "the enemy"; not at least if you want to enable your citizens to have anything that begins to approximate a normal existence.

Consequently, IF the Palestinians somehow could manage to find a leader who had done a reality check that wasn’t based on hatred, and who cared more about the future of his people, the region than exactly vengeance for what has happened in the past, and really, truly wanted to bring peace and turn his/her back on violence as a solution, I believe that Israel, the U. S. the whole world would fall all over themselves helping him crave out that positive, non-violent future.

Of course, he would need a whole lotta body guards, because there are countless people in that area – Iran, the Syrians as well as rabid Jews, who really don’t want a peaceful solution that brings this conflict to an end, but get the jollies by enflaming and perpetuating it. What a royal mess – where’s a man with the wisdom of a Solomon when you need one?

My comment above was "Collapsed by the Community" above. Too many people's comments - not just mine - whose only "failing" is that they don't meet with the approval of people who differ with them are being collapsed here on the vine.

This comment has received somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 plus positive votes.

Well, I've got news for you - those among you who like to suppress others opinions, it is not that hard to keep re-posting a comment. I do not "collapse" other people's comments because I disagree with them. I either respond to them or ignore them and let others make their own judgement as to their validity or lack thereof.

Nothing I have said above is untrue - it may not be a politically correct, or polite to characterize Israel or the Palestinians in many people's view, but rarely is what is "politically correct" actually correct or real.

It is time that the people in charge of the vine made it so that those who wish to shut down others points of view so they cannot be even consider - and then either rejected or accepted - cannot get away with their censorship and suppression of free speech.

I see lots of people on here saying we should cut off aid to israel. Are you kidding? Theyve been one of our closest allies for decades. How about we cut off aid to 30 other countries out there that dont need our money instead- including mexico and pakistan

To the OP-

GWB had the exact same stance, and the democrats crucified him for it at the time. Now that it's Obama at the wheel, you try to say Bush was a pushover and that they should give back all the land. Give it a rest. Stop using the "Do as we say, not as we do" argument to try to win every debate. Those of us who can read and do actual research think you're crazy. This goes for BOTH side's zealot fringe base.

American Lobo, interesting post 1.121, but not all true, with #6 being the funniest, saddest. The President is not the most qualified of the past 5 or 6 Presidents. If he was, he wouldn't be doing such a terrible job, sticking his foot in his mouth. This week he put it in up to his thigh with that speech. I say this, as his lack of relevant experience was the exact reason I didn't vote for him, and will not vote for him this time, having now seen proof of his lack of experience and the way it has drug our country down instead of up.

#5. Really, we've been going down-hill for the last decade as those corporations took that money off shore so as not to pay those high corporate tax rates.

#4 If it is not his job to create jobs, he shouldn't have said he would. Once again, I refer you to that lack of experience.

#3 EVERYONE knows he is not a financial analyst, just look at Obamacare and what he has said about it. All smoke and mirrors and no clue to the fact that if you add more people and add benefits it will cost more, not less, as he claims.

#2 What about that useless "stimulus?" Let alone giving money we don't have away to other countries?!?

#1 And he didn't do a sensible thing by hiring someone who could help him with that. Instead, he hires more like himself, and that has been a negative as well.

No Lobo, I don't hate the President, but, am quite sure it was a mistake to put him in the White House.

P.S. Gotta love those collapsing haters........ You are sooo predictable.... but also showing your true colors, you don't practice what you preach.

@Jungle boogie in reference to the Jews writes "If it wasn't for them wouldn't we all be speaking German right now?"

Somebody should tell him Inglorious Basterds was just a movie.

The US needs to look out for our own interests in the Middle East - not be the dog that is wagged by the Israeli tail.

If American Jewry want support from other Americans, they need to stop posturing like Ed Koch and Dershowitz. Is this what it really is? Their way or the highway? If we don't do what Israel wants on every issue, they'll fold up their businesses in the US and disappear? So what's the subliminal message from that? Either we do what Israel always wants or they'll retract all that big moolah they have here in the US?

Who cares? It isn't going to make a particle of difference if they do or not. The US is broke. For Netayahoo to continue his arrogant posturing and demanding the US take their side always and ever is stupid and he knows it. It would put the US in the position of being under constant attack from Arabs who view us as always pro-Israel and that the US is really controlled by Israelis.

So...which is it? We exhibit unbiased diplomacy or we pander to Israelis need for land grabbing while they continue to grow a population unsuitable for the land mass they were given in 1947? And don't bother to start with that anti-Semitism BS.

My country was attacked because we are viewed as biased toward Israel and not just by Palestinians. Which country then is the commonest of common denominators in the problems in the Middle East?

Ewent,

By your remarks you are obviously clueless when it come to Israel. First, we are a democratic country that is supposed to support democratic countries, and considering that Israel is the only democratic society in the middle east, surrounded by dictators, on principles on supporting our way of life we should support Israel. Second, You state that we are broke and not having Israel support Obama's Anti-Israel stance is ludicrous, Israel, like any nation, is interested in its self preservation, and these people that you support giving the land back to and putting Israel at a very precarious position teach in their classroom that all Israeli's are less then human and it is the their duty to exterminate them, then look at Ha-mas and their refusal to recognize them and even call out for their destruction (I know I sure would not be comfortable making a deal with people trying to kill me) but you in your hypocritical way must be supportive of Ha mas. Last, There would be war, and huge, with all Arab nations going for broke to destroy Israel, and in the end we would either have to go in and stop it (much more expensive then what we are doing now) or it would go nuclier.

So please due us all a huge favor, and pull your head out of your @ss and quite being like this racist, pro-anything that is not black or muslim President and administration and for once do something right and stand up for what is the moral and high ground.

Fat chance, having a Democrat today take the moral high ground is as likely as watching a Muslim eat pork. Democrats and Republicans are both morally broke, and in the end it seems like they would rather watch this country burn then do what is right for it. Sadly, the most corrupt and anti-everything that the majority of Americans stand for is this current administration, there is only one cure, get them out and please have a candidate that will finally put the good of this country ahead of the good of their party or election.

The way the Israeli Zionists see it, now that they've dug a network of structurally destabilizing tunnels underneath the Al-Aqsa Mosque using the cheap excuse of archeological digging, they are just one earthquake away from being able to take over the Al-Aqsa Mosque property, and begin rebuilding King Solomon's Temple. And yes, Jerusalem does get hit with periodic earthquakes. The Al-Aqsa Mosque has been rebuilt twice because of earthquake damage over the past 1,300 years.

So why would they give up East Jerusalem now?

The past 3 President basically said the same thing.Taken out of context yes - in their final actions and words - NO!

DB, Sorry, is was the past 4-5 President. The key word in my statement is basically, which does not equate Same As.

Benjamin Netanyahu went into the White House Friday "worried, but came out encouraged," according to a senior Israeli official briefed on the prime minister's frank meeting with President Barack Obama. The relationship has not changed," the official said when asked to describe the tenor of the White House talks. There are different views on issues, difference on policy," the official said, "but none of it was personal. The Israeli official said the prime minister plans to "readjust" his remarks after the White House session. I Guess will have to wait and see what he will readjust.

Those borders were established in the original U.N. mandate establishing the State of Israel in 1948. They are recognized internationally by all other states as the legitimate borders of Israel. Only Israel objects to returning to those borders as readily apparent in remarks by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. These borders are the only legitimate starting point for negotiations with the Palestinian's for any peace settlement to take place. Netanyahu and the Israeli's may object to Obama's stated position but they must be persuaded to eventually come around to accepting the fact that they are illegal occupiers of the West Bank, their settlements and expansion of such are illegal, their siege of Gaza is in violation that must end, their retention of the Syrian Golan Heights is illegal, the ultimate final disposition of Jerusalem needs to be negotiated as well as the plight of the refugees that were displaced in the original partition and establishment of the country in 1948 must all be negotiated if there is ever going to be a lasting peace. The President is right on the mark.

BTW - Netanyahu also was educated at Harvard - has there been some sort of serious drop in our College education quality?

Sorry, DB I fail to see the relevency of this question.

Per the census--1.81% of the US population is Jewish. How in the world does less than 2% of the US population's views become so relevant? I think it's because of religious guilt and the holocaust. As I recall of history---the intervention and entry into WWII is the reason that there is an "Israel". I think Israel should be paying the US $3B a year as opposed to the other way around.

Mr President--tell them to go to imaginary hell!

Sandtrich, I do not say this to many people, but you are a idiot. The reason WW2 was fought was because we were attacked and the next day Germany declared war on us. The war had nothing to do with the Jewish people, you really need to go back to school and study history, because yours is totally racist and distorted.

Tbenton
Sandtrich, I do not say this to many people, but you are a idiot. The reason WW2 was fought was because we were attacked and the next day Germany declared war on us. The war had nothing to do with the Jewish people, you really need to go back to school and study history, because yours is totally racist and distorted.

Are the Jewish people a "race" or a religious sect? Who would I rather see the US "play well with"? 1) 1.6B Muslims or 2) 13.4M Jews. I'll take option 1.

I would watch who you call names unless you feel the CoH doesn't apply to you.

Tbenton The US entry into the war was manufactured. The US made the first act of war, blockading Japan, using the British and Dutch navies as proxies, which resulted in the Japanese counterattack known as Pearl Harbor.

The Israelis were the cause of the European theater war, assassinating German diplomats in Paris, to which the Germans responded with Kristallnacht and the internment of Israelis.

Israelis massive guilt over what they caused has them all over the place denying the WW2 European theater was was a religious one. If they admit that fact, they will be seen not as victims which they wish to be, but as belligerents, instigators, and perpetrators which they are.

4RealLyn

Worse yet - you don't understand when people are trying to put lipstick on the roast pig's leftover head. Look at the video again - you have two leaders who are very unhappy with each other - there should be a vote "which is more unhappy". Judging from responses I've heard and scene - Obama wins that one.

Worse yet - you don't understand when people are trying to put lipstick on the roast pig's leftover head.you have two leaders who are very unhappy with each other - there should be a vote "which is more unhappy". Judging from responses I've heard and scene - Obama wins that one.

DB, Why are you focused on insignificant details? The Real issue is Peace in the Middle East. To focus on who is most unhappy is irrelavent. If you choose to focus on voting to see who is most unhappy go head. I choose to focus on Peace in the Middle East and how they get there. Establishing a starting point for negotiations would be most important to Obtain Peace in the Middle East. Once again Benjamin Netanyahu went into the White House Friday "worried, but came out encouraged". I am happy that we have a President who stays Focus on the issues. Tip Toeing around the issues and worrying about who is happy and who is not during the process don't solve issues. Solving the issuse is what makes people happy.

Per the census--1.81% of the US population is Jewish. How in the world does less than 2% of the US population's views become so relevant?

Can someone share with the rest of us Viners the percentage of Jewish politicians in Washington and states? As an American taxpayer I feel like a slave which has no choice but to pay his masters a yearly aid tax. It is time for this to end. I am tired of this cr@p.

Stop ALL foreign aid until America is restored!!! Time to change politics in America. NO MORE TAXES WHILE BEING MISREPRESENTED!!! No more representative government. Americans deserve direct vote in legislation and tax expenditures. Period!!!

Isreal MUST go back to the original borders and start respecting her neighbors or else pay back all foreign aid!

Another American that wants control of the Supreme civil servant!!!! At Last!!!! Bravo. Now let Israel take care of itself. More Americans need to focus on Americas borders and survival. Starting with Obama!!!!!!

I do have a problem with your type of thinking because if we are going to demand this then let's demand that the president quits being a hypocrite and does the same for the US. So lets roll back our boarders to 1957 and take the statehood away from Hawaii, thus making this idiot not eligible for President. Then lets contact Spain and give them back Florida, and while we are at it let give back New Mexico, Arizona, and California to the Mexicans, we did take it through war, and with this administrations way of thinking this is wrong, besides, this way we would get rid of California's $20,000,000,000 debt, and since illegal immigrants from Mexico get more rights then Americans there (they have not paid taxes all their lives, but get the same rights as people that have), this will be a good fit.

And for your idiotic claims that we would be better siding with 1.5 billion Arabs then with a couple million Jewish people in Israel; Israel has not called for death of all that are not Jewish, nor have they ever called for our personal death or funded any terrorist organizations that are bent that way. Yet this is taught in the schools of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Iran, and about 90% of the area. So why would we be interested in siding with people that wish us dead. Talk about stupidity, how about if you have your sister become best friends with a rapist, same thing.

It is nice to hate Israel, and yes they are far from perfect. There have been rocky times in our relations, but they are the only truly democratic elected country out there. And for those of you that think that Egypt will change, forget it, they are going to get worse, the ruling council has already stated that they will become a semi-religious state and sharia law will be re-instated. Jordon is going to go next, and they will do the same, and then will go the rest. And if you think gas prices are bad now, take a look at what the top experts in the Arab countries are saying is coming, a major war between the Shea and the Sunni, at that point gas will go up past $8.00 a gallon.

So who would I rather side with? Our one and only friend over there, Israel. And if we are so worried about oil, then tell these stupid environmentalist and the current administration to make drilling for oil a national security issue, it puts a stop to the environmentalist and we can be self dependent within ten years, and then we can put massive amounts of money that we are giving to these countries that hate us and invest it into true green tech that will ween us permanently from oil and then we will have no need for them. The way that most of you and the current admistration wants will lead to the down fall and destruction of this country as we know it.

Thanks for your useful input. We will all reflect on your post.

One of the realities that obama does not understand is fixing the USA.

@frag -- Donnie Deutsch said this morning that the democrat Jewish base who reluctantly supported him in 2008 have said they will not support him now. This isn't a party line issue. It is an issue that goes far beyond that. This will cost him dearly in support at the ballot box and fund raising efforts in the re-election bid -- especially from the Jewish community -- and well utterly deserved.

Ben, don't bother. People like frag can't see beyond party lines. They'll clutch to their goose stepping mentality with white knuckles even if they know it would mean that they would have to step up and accept that they've been just as wrong as those they fight against.

Republican and Democrat. Two sides of the same coin. When it comes right down to it they agree on about 98% of what they do but they need to make it look like they're both fighting the good fight in the eyes of the public or they'd lose their power to steal from the public under the guise of doing what's best for them.

Why did they collapse the first comment---there were valid points on both sides?

Kallie...tea party...

I agree. He is completely naive on so many levels. His economic policy - to fix the economy government only has to spend a lot. Wrong and still isn't worked.

Foreign policy- all we need to do is engage Iran, North Korea, Hamas, etc. in dialog. They really want to be our friend. Wrong hasn't worked, instead they view it as a weakness.

Now this. Abandon a strong ally that was attacked first and all the people he is trying to appease have said flatly that Israel must be destroyed. Not just go back to the 1960's old border. Wrong, just like when they allowed the Palestinians to govern themselves. There would finally be peace. Wrong.

Really so many realities Obama doesn't understand...Lets be real here

DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT HAMAS WILL HAVE A LASTING CEASE FIRE BASED ON OBAMA AND THE ISRAELIS AGREEING TO THE 1967 BORDERS ?

Do you really think the Palestinians will stop trying to kill Israelis ?

NO NO and NO

It will be very convenient when the Arabs living in Gaza agree to the 67 borders and Israel says OK then they try to institute these borders and the palestinians will do what ?

Break the Peace agreement, bomb the Israelis and then what do you think Obama will do ?

Do you think Obama is going to just sit around and not do something ?

Have you noticed how many things we in the USA have agressively bombed since he took office.

WHEN THE PALESTINAINS AND EGYPT AND SYRIA GANG UP AGAINST THE ISRAELIS AND ITS ONLY A MATTER OF MONTHS BEFORE THEY DO

lOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED ON THE BORDER WITH EGYPT A WEEK AGA

OBAMA WILL AND THE US AND NATO WILL BLOW ANY PALESTINAINS AWHO SIDE WITH HAMAS AND THE REST OF THE DESERT DWELLERS OFF THE MAP

I HAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN OBAMA ABILITY TO KILL TERRORISTS

WE ARE GOING TO WAR WITH ANY ARABS WHO WANT TO ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH HAMAS PLAIN AND SIMPLE

AND WHEN IT COMES TO ISRAEL THIS COUNTRY WILL REINSTATE THE DRAFT AND WE WILL SEND OUR OWN CHILDREN BEFORE WE WILL EVER LET THE ISLAMIST EXTREMISTS FROM REANCATING WORLD WAR II

And to all you Jihadists..You starting blowing up our buildings and you have seen how happy Americans were for the death of bin Laden

I don't know a single American who would not feel that a war with terrorists would be just..after all of the trouble Jihadists have caused

So go ahead Gaza do what you always do lie agree to a peace agreement and Fail

This time there will be consequences

Thats coming next

I consider myself an independent but I do tend to lean to the Republican side of many issues. I did not vote for Obama but I did vote for the Democratic candidate for the Florida governor in the past election. When listening to the conservative pundits on talk radio I become absolutely terrified of their rants on Obama, the liberals, and what they think our future will be. These talking heads are not helping their cause by screaming at us about their liberal counterparts. I just wanted to explain myself before I go off on my rant.

I believe that Obama may be the worst president we have ever had, at least in the modern era. I think he has no clue as to the economic issues facing us now or in the future. When they start to monitize our debt the inflation will go into triple digits. His arrogance has placed him above the American people and he tries to force his convoluted philosophies on us. I believe that his lack of experience with most issues especially international politics is an absolute disgrace. He has made us a laughing stock in the eyes of many of our allies. I truly wonder if he knows who our allies are. I think he would have made a great leader in Russia in 1917. He often expresses a socialistic viewpoint about some issues. He does not seem to grasp the need for Americans to experience our freedoms and he has chosen to "redistribute" our dreams and our lives. I can't even imagine why he needs to kiss butt and bow down before these leaders of these 3rd rate middle east countries. It's time for our leaders to stand up for America and stop placating people who hate us and want to kill us. It's time to tell these 3rd rate boneheads that we will leave you alone but if you continue to export your terrorism to our shores or bother our true allies we will take it to your borders. It's time to stop giving billions to countries who want to kill us. Too many Americans ned help just to scratch and claw our way through life. Help us. Help the flood victims. Help the tornado victims. Help the seniors who can't afford Obama's health care plan. Help the younger Americans who can't find a job. Help our border states. Develop plans to increase jobs IN THE USA.

I did not vote for Obamas and I can not in good conscience even consider using my vote for his re-election. I can't vote for someone whose background has placed him in direct conflict with what America should stand for.

There .... I gave you my opinion about our president and I didn't swear once.

Donnie Deutsch said this morning that the democrat Jewish base who reluctantly supported him in 2008 have said they will not support him now. This isn't a party line issue.

Who is Donnie Deutsch and since when does he dictate how American Jews cast their votes?

Most people, including American Jews, want peace in the Middle East. It's obvious that some Republican political hacks don't, at least not yet, because an agreement would cost them the White House. For those hacks, it IS a party line issue, pure and simple.

What the political hacks don't seem to understand is that Barack Obama does not care if it wins him votes or costs him votes. He will press for peace between Israel and Palestine because it is the right thing to do. America needs it; the world needs it; Israel needs; and Palestine needs it.

Commonsense: Obama is all for the "Arab Spring" and will do whatever it takes to achieve it. As to his not caring about votes, please, he is a politician. There are many Muslims who would like nothing better than to have a stable life in a stable country. The problem is the religion of Islam. It is not peaceful, it is not tolerant of other religions nor is it tolerant of human rights or equality. Islam is a theocracy governed by Sharia law. Until Muslims can abandon Islam (an impossibility) there will be no democracy in the context of what the west considers a democracy.

Look to Egypt, they had their revolution and now there is fighting between Christians and Muslims, most want to destroy Israel, not because of the palestinian issue (that is a convenient excuse) but rather because Israel is a free Jewish state and will not submit to taquiyya. There is a clash of ideologies that goes much deeper than mere borders.

Look at the former Soviet Union, what happened when it was dissolved? Ancient enmities came to the fore and the fighting commenced.

commonsense,

Exactly right. The President is trying to do the right thing regardless of how it affects his popularity at the moment.

This is just one more example of a gutsy move by a strong leader.

Sally, I rarely comment on your selective process of who to suspend, but the bias is beyond obvious. The number of angry libs using obviously disrespectful language directed at conservatives is enormous, but they seem to always get a pass. At least apply your rule judiciously and even handed.

Obama's speach last night intentionally pre-empted Netanyahu's visit to the
US to address the Congress and others. Obama sent two main messages to the Arab world in his speech:

1. Announcing that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders, gave his
approval for the Arabs to cross the existing borders, which of course would
result in many deaths.

2. Obama told the Palestinians and the Arab world that the US will NOT vote
for recognition of a Palestinian State at the UN. This told the Palestinian's
that they will have to FIGHT for it.

He knows what he is doing! Please don't be so naieve! Also, I wish everyone would look at their use of the word "LIBERAL". There are Liberal's in both parties. Call the media and Obama what the really are...SOCIALISTS.

That is a total misinterpretation of both of those points. He needed to establish a starting point of boundaries, he did that. He aslso needed Palestinians to know that they would not reach their desired end by going around Israel to the international community, they would need to negotiate. What is funny is that both sides didn't like what he had to say. However, he certainly did not endorse crossing existing lines or fighting it out.

Then clearly the winner of the Nobel Peace prize is calling for WAR.

And the blood will be on his hands and his hands alone.

He is showing his true Muslim nature... He will be the one to destroy the USA from the inside and will be a hero to his Muslim brothers...

Obama has to be the worst President ever.

DaveM,

Oh, not at all. The President is not taking sides, he is merely suggesting compromise. If you go back and read all the articles closely and examine all the comments you will see that his suggestions include concessions made by the Palestinians as well. It is just that Israel is unaccustomed to the U.S. asking them to make these kinds of unwilling sacrifices.

It is a very bold move on the part of U.S. President to say what many have been saying through the years ... can't there be a compromise? It is called striving for peace.

You cannot compromise with Terrorists. They see this as weakness.

I did read the article twice-if the media is shooting straight pool...

You can throw money at the Middle East, you can give up land, but in the end Israel will stand alone.

Pretty arrogant of the US President telling other nations what they must do.

Should we give up Mexico and Texas because Israel tells us to?

Obama is showing exactly NAIVE he is on the scale of World Politics. Don't get me wrong, he is good at community organizing, but running a country he is a fish out of water.

Tackle the problems here in the USA (jobs, economy, immigration) before tackling the World.

ChiCity

I agree with your assessment of Sally's bias in banning or suspending people.

Another SNAG in Obama's FAILED re-election efforts?

Since his election on 11-02-08, Obama continues to ALIENATE MILLIONS of his "former supporters" and somehow this turd "actually believes he has a serious shot at getting re-elected?" Dream on.

Since his inauguration on Jan 20th, 2009, how many demographic groups that voted for him have rapidly become his "former supporters"?

Most interesting, but rarely reported or even discussed, is the continued CONSERVATIVE EXPLOSION within the Black community with over THIRTY BLACK REPUBLICANS that ran just for the U.S. Congress in 2010? Black Conservatives have proven to be some of the most dynamic speakers on today's political stage? Tim Scott, Allen West and Herman Cain are only just a few? Even Denzel Washington is "out of the closet". The point is, "Wasn't it MORE EXPECTED to have a SURGE of "Democratic Black leaders due to Obama's election?" Seriously, doesn't it strike people as STRANGE that the strongest emerging Black leaders are Conservative? Republican? WOW!

The question becomes, "HOW will this new SURGE in Black Conservative thinking affect what percentage of the 'Black vote' he receives in 2012?"

Also, what about have all those Independents who are often credited with "carrying the ball over the line for Obama in 2008" have been FLEEING from him like rats from a burning building... so again, what happens to that support in 2012?

Then there is the "Hollywood Elite" who also gave HEAVY SUPPORT to his 2008 election. ICONS like Barbara Streisand say about Obama, "He is a DISASTER!" Wow? Then, there is "Denzel Washington" a highly prominent Christian Black Conservative, almost worshiped in the Black community (and everywhere else too) voicing STRONG OPPOSITION to Obama? WOW!

What about the American Jewish voters who represent another group that played a BIG role in getting Obama elected in 2008... but what are they saying NOW and what are they thinking NOW? Articles and even BOOKS have been written by prominent Jewish authors CRITICIZING Obama for his "ANTI-Israel Middle East policy".

And now we see him getting PUBLICLY REBUKED and OWNED by Netanyahu for his NAIVE proposal which COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS EXISTING AGREEMENTS between the USA and ISRAEL?

So, how many people seriously expect Obama's "former Jewish supporters" will support his re-election in 2012? It will be far, far less than '08 for sure!

Let's not forget those RADICAL, BIGGER GOVERNMENT, LEFT-WING policies put forth by Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the rest of their SOCIALIST entourage are DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the "public spanking" the Democrats received last November of 2010. Many, many Democrats continue to DISTANCE themselves from the President and his policies... so HOW does this "unreported SPLIT within the Democrat Party and among Democrat voters" effect Obama's re-election efforts in 2012?

Last but not least... there is THE ECONOMY STUPID!

Obama's "dwindling supporters" can believe any fantasy they want to believe... but since it isn't like Obama won in any landslide in '08 either... Obama is GONE on January 20th, 2013.

Nov 6th, 2012: JUDGMENT DAY for America's 1st Semitic Arab President

I rarely agree with Obama. That being said, I think he is a brave president who does what he thinks is right- whether I agree with him or not. In this case, I absolutely agree with him- Palestinians are not completely to blame for the lack of peace. Both sides share the blame. Unconditional Israeli supporters would have you believe that all that needs to happen for peace is the Palestinians to put down their arms. The problem is, it will be a peace completely dictated by the Israeli's that no coutnry would accept. It's time for Israel to accept their role in the current conflict.

By the way, di deveryone see that Israel just announced the building of 1500 homes in East Jerusalem- wonder why no one believes they are serious about peace?

Look, what if your neighbor dragged you and your family out on the street and bulldozed your home.

If your neighbor said his God said it was his, you'd agree wouldn't you?

If you try to resist shouldn't your neighbor just be allowed to kill you and your family or lock you up in prison?

Shouldn't we continue sending Israel money to support this?

Obama looked like a fool today.

He thought he could force israel to accept new borders that are totally indefensible against an enemy that will never negotiate peace. Of course Bibi said......HELL NO.

The Jews have owned this land for 3,000+ years. The muslims forced them off and the took it back. Now they will fight to keep it.

Do you blame them?

Israel does not understand that it does now own the united States.

Israel behaves as if it does own the United States and expects the United States to bow down to that.

and alas, it's infinitely fewer than you.

"comment collapsed by the community" - Is WRONG!

Mohammad1000...Can you provide the documentation on paper in black and white to prove Israel owned all of the Middle East as your post indicates? If you can't, you are buying into that Promised Land BS of 3,000 years ago.

And, as I recall from the Old Testament, when Israelis broke their covenant with Yahweh that promise of the Promised Land went with it. So who's really BSing whom?

If you want to use the Bible to prove there never was a Palestine, you'd be proven wrong posthaste. Not only are their maps proving that, but there are NO maps proving Palestine was land that belonged to Israel.

There's a huge difference between basing an entire religious identity on some 5,000 year old promise and reality. Quite frankly, in the interest of unbiased diplomacy, I don't see how Israel can possibly deny Palestinians a statehood in one breath and demand their own right to the same in the next? What kind of poppycock BS is that? Just because some supernatural being promised land doesn't make it so. It's time Israelis and all Jews face that singular fact of life.

Can't wait to see what happens next with our president. What will he say? What will he do?

ChiCity
Sally, I rarely comment on your selective process of who to suspend, but the bias is beyond obvious. The number of angry libs using obviously disrespectful language directed at conservatives is enormous, but they seem to always get a pass. At least apply your rule judiciously and even handed.

I couldn't disagree more. I received a week suspension, after using no profanity or name calling. Not kissing a$$ here, but both Tyler and Sally are even handed, (even though I don't think I deserved a week suspension). Get over it and don't attack--that's all the suspension means.

That's right. He understands in the same way the rest of his demented and twisted anti-israeli cohorts do. I never could understsand why the jewish people voted for this guy in large numbers other than he had a D next to name on the ballot.

I can't wait to see hollywood defend Obama's anti semitic stance. Whatcha say BABS?

Hollywood has already bailed on obama but that is something that is not being covered in the press.

crankypaul

Who has Israel declared war on?

1967 borders? Israel was attacked and won that land. Netanyahu is correct when he says to go back to 1967 borders would leave Israel indefensible.

I have said before I voted for Obama---but I think he is out of his league when it comes to dealing with middle east. Just by lumping all the tribes together as " middle east" is naive.

Once you get into a middle east country there is almost never an exit plan. No one has yet to justify our involvement in Libya. Western style deomocracy is NOT going to work in a tribal third world atmosphere. Has anyone paid attention to what is happening in Egypt???? A perfectly stable, relatively open country is now persecuting their own women; oh yeah, and calling for the destruction of AMerica.

Obama needs to stick to building our economy, bringing back jobs to the U.S., building our healthcare system, providing a good education to all of our children ( that is the ONLY thing that will bring down crime) Our two largest cities just laid off hundreds of teachers.....quit giving money to the middle east and give it to our TEACHERS and SCHOOLS! I will probably NOT vote for Obama again---I am looking for someone that is AMERICA focused.

On the Israel thing---Dont listen to obama.....keeping todays borders is the only thing allowing Jews to have one safe place in the world. However, Palestinians do need supplies and given a chance to join the world but only if if they quit electing Hamas as leaders. ( I reposted because they collapsed me---its a conspiracy by the Obama followers lol :)

Not only did Obama throw Isreal under the bus. He gave a terrorist organization, Hamas, a seat on that bus.

crankypaul, not sure who you think Israel declared war on, they protect their country. As I stated a few posts up, they could do nothing and sit back and still be attacked. Israel wasn't attacking anyone recently when mobs of people attacked it's borders denouncing it's existance. If that happened in the US, we would do the same.

@grunt -- Wrong!!!! Donnie Deutsch said this morning that the democrat Jewish base who reluctantly supported him in 2008 have said they will not support him now. This isn't a party line issue. It is an issue that goes far beyond that. This will cost him dearly in support at the ballot box and fund raising efforts in the re-election bid -- especially from the Jewish community -- and well utterly deserved.

Kallie, your right. Democracy and Middle-East do not go together. He wants to foregive Egypt for loans that we gave them for military equipment to make the reigning military government happy, that doesn't help the people. That same military government has already stated they will put in a religious based government, and with their religion, that definetly will not be a democratic society. Obama needs to get a clue.

As you stated in the tribal world, Arabs don't get along with Arabs. They will continue to fight and we can't be the police. We have plenty of things going on here in the US that need to be fixed.

Kallie,

keeping todays borders is the only thing allowing Jews to have one safe place in the world

Most of the Jews I know seem to be pretty safe right here in America. I have even heard of some Jews living safely in Europe.

Reacting to other comments on this thread and others, I ask this question. What makes the Israeli point of view any more correct than someone who disagrees with them? And what gives Israel the right to declare war on anyone who dose NOT see things their way?

Who is the aggressor??

All land taken by Israel was taken after they were attacked by Arab factions after Israel won the conflict they did not start. Israel is in a defensive position, surrounded, with no allies.

Who is the agressor? REALLY?

It's all so darn silly, Obama's stance isn't any different than W's was, or Clinton or H.W.. He just said it in an election season. 90% of Americans are within 10 degrees of each other on most of the issues yet we out do each other trying to paint anyone with different opinions as Nazi's and un-American.

Doug Ponders: crankypaul

Who has Israel declared war on?

1967 borders? Israel was attacked and won that land. Netanyahu is correct when he says to go back to 1967 borders would leave Israel indefensible.

#4.6 - Fri May 20, 2011 8:21 AM EDT

Well, let's see... the Palestinians - just about the same time Palestine declared war on them! If you check ancient history, these two cultures have been at war since about the 5th century BC. Actually, the curiosity is that both nations derive from the same blood lines and culture. So, I guess you could say the Arab-Israeli wars are all about a family feud.

Israel no more 'won that land' than a human male can gestate a fetus and give birth. --- it ain't happenin'. And Israeli did not 'win' that land.

This is not a simple issue and there is no easy or simple solution. Only someone with a terribly simple mind could look at the facts and think it would be so.

1967 borders? Israel was attacked and won that land. Netanyahu is correct when he says to go back to 1967 borders would leave Israel indefensible.

israel started the 1967 war.

and also if they "won" the land, they still destroy homes and build homes for other people. they cannot keep the palestinians in political limbo as well.

I never really understood the US's infatuation with Israel and the billions of support they recieve (other than the obvious answer).

The claim that Israel "deserves the land because they were attacked" just doesnt stick with me. That's like Canada's government attacking the US, the US wins the war, then proceeds to go into Toronto and bulldoze townhomes.

The "indefensible" argument is not sound. They receive, again, billions in US financial aide and are first in the pecking order of US military technology. The Palestinians throw rocks over walls at them.

I fail to see how Israel "rightfully" earned any land beyond the '67 border.

Doggs - Every year seems to be election season for obama, he just can't stop campaigning and seriously address our own challenges here in the USA.

Isn't a leader supposed to lead by example and get both parties to pull together with the publics support?

Israelis were not the pilots on 9/11....try not to ever forget it fool...

Israel will never cede any part of Jerusalem and they will never negotiate with any group that is remotely affiliated with Hamas. Ain't gonna happen ever so make sure you all get that through your thick heads. Unless Syria goes democratic, they will never get the Golan Heights back ever. Not happening. The best the Palestinians can hope for is getting the West Bank. That's it. End of story.

D.Man - You misspelled that it should say,

The Palestinians throw rockets over walls at them.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

crankypaul, not sure who you think Israel declared war on, they protect their country. As I stated a few posts up, they could do nothing and sit back and still be attacked. Israel wasn't attacking anyone recently when mobs of people attacked it's borders denouncing it's existance. If that happened in the US, we would do the same.

I'm not pro Israel or pro Palestine. That would be like being 'pro-moron.'

But I will say this right now that Israel DOES attack the Palestinians every day..... with settlements. They are in a continuous process of annexation of Palestinian territory and plopping down 'midnight settlements' then recruiting militant zionists (and paying THEM) to settle there.

It is, basically, castle-building tactics of Feudal Europe. It's a passive-aggressive offensive tactic, plain and simple.

Now I condemn these actions, as well as the actions of the Palestinians. But I get tired of hearing the same 'ol biased bullsquat from both sides of this issue claiming that they are the lambs, and the enemy is the wolf.

In case you haven't noticed - doing such is blatantly dishonest.

Jon - If Israel continually gives in to the demands of those groups seeking to put pressure on it, as you say they should, there will be no more Israel. Once you start giving in to terrorists, where do you stop?

I am not saying Israel is always right, but there must be better solutions than this.

D.man - you seem to forget how that "land" was obtained, who attacked who in 1967 and who wants to see israel as a nation disappear.

Care to share with us what hamas throws at israel?

As a person of no religion,stating Pres.Obama is a muslim and basing his decisions on that makes anything you have to say irrelevant. With the current situation in the middle east if Isreal does'nt get serious about negotiations they will find themselves surrounded by peaceful demonstrators until they fire at them .Then that entire area will join together to resolve these issues and that will not be pretty.They are all of European deccent and don't really have a claim to the land that was given to them.Without our military backing Isreal would be doomed and I have no doubt they would be the ones to start a nuclear war in that region

Mata read a book! Israel launched the 6-days war in 1967 not the Arabs. It was a preemptive strike by Israel against Egypt. Even this is irrelevant though when you consider all international agreements that make the acquisition of land by force illegal. This is why no one has recoginzed the annexation of East Juresalem or the Golan Heights. I also think everyone should ask themselves a simple question. What have we gained by our unwavering support of Israel, and what has it caused us? If you can come up with a list where the good outwiegh the bad please let me know. Our support for Israel is the result of narrow-minded lobbying groups like APIC that have hijacked our foriegn policy and consistently prevented us from doing what is right, just, and in our best interest.

Obama has a clue, he has a clue that a very large number of Americans are totally sick of our biased support of a bigoted nation that has absolutely no desire for peace unless it is totally their way. The ridiculous amount of treasure and lives we have wasted in our blind support of this country needs to stop. Our "war on terror" exists solely due to supporting those who do not have any desire for peace. It must stop. I'm no isolationist, I'm as Christian as the next guy, but I'm also not stupid. Blindly supporting the Israelis is just no longer logical. They have proven time and time again that the status quo, us paying for their existence and arrogance, is just fine with them. Wake up people! It's time for the US to move on.

RE: ScoMata1964 @ #4.15 - Fri May 20, 2011 8:57 AM EDT

Going back to 1947-48, Israel was ceded certain lands in Palestinian territory. This was a specific area of territory laid out to provide a homeland for displaced Jewish refugees in the aftermath of WWII. But there were more Jewish people globally than Great Britain and the United Nations imagined and they wanted more land so, in great Seussian form, they began biggering and biggering and encroaching on land not yet allotted to them. By the time of the 1967 accord, the initial 40,000 refugees had swelled to more than ten times that number.

Now, following the 1947-48 land grant, the Palestinians stated unequivocally that they would not accept a Jewish homeland in their territory. But the Jewish people with soul-deep satisfaction that the world had acknowledged them as a national and political entity were comforted by that and moved to establish a stronger foothold in the region. Unfortunately, they went about it the wrong way and the fight ... as they say ... was on.

Consider, if you will, you go to work in the morning and, when you come home in the evening, you find someone else has put up a small cottage in your backyard and set up housekeeping. They not only refuse to leave but, the following day, there are five more little cottages in your backyard (You have a big backyard.) You go to the police to complain and are told, "Hey! Squatter's rights. Right?" So you are now stuck with a half-dozen families living in your backyard. But you do not go down easily and continue to try to get rid of these squatters. You even go so far as to tear down some of their houses but are told by the cops that, if you do it again, you will be arrested and charged with destruction of property!

Now, over the next ten years, those half-dozen families continue to attract more friends and family until one day, you come home from work and discover even more of these squatters have moved into your basement! Now what? Soon, even more of them are living in your attic, too. And, if you try to oust them, you are warned by the PD to back off. So now you are not only angry at your squatters, but you are finding it hard to be civil to law enforcement as well. You get all your friends to help try to get rid of them but the 'squatters' have friends, too. And everybody's friends are now helping their chosen side in the discord.

Well, that pretty much sums up one of the biggest problems in any accord between the Palestinians and the Israelis. So, whether by political, social, or militaristic approach ... yes, the Israelis did, most certainly declare war. And, yes, the Palestinians most certainly did declare war. Who's right? Who's wrong? Neither ... and both.

And who's the aggressor? Well, depending on the political climate of a given moment ... BOTH

The problem with collapsing the strings is that they are collapsed and then the newsvine people look at it and restore it after it is too late and no one is looking at the site anymore.

As for the current administrations position, why don't we go on and give Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California back to Mexico (this is what he is in essence asking Israel to do) both were won and taken as war reparations, and were also taken to give a buffer zone to give added protection in the case of a attack. And while I think about it, I think the president is giving this land back to Mexico by his and the proceeding administrations refusal to secure our own boarders.

This president does not get it domestically and now he continues to show his lack of experience and towards the world outlook other then he will support the Arab causes and throw Israel under the table. And for you that ask why Israel, they are the only nation in the middle east that are democratically elected and have shown time and time again that they are our friends and do not talk nice while supporting terrorist that are bent on our destruction (Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and every other Arab country. The problem is that their faith (which is part of their constitution and government rule) clearly states that anyone not of Islamic faith are infidels and are to be overthrown by any means possible, but it is not only acceptable but encouraged in the Koran to use us for their own gain.

If we as a nation wish to survive, we need to get out the current administration (who's fiscal policies make Bush's look frugal) and bring in a administration hopefully made of independent that take the best from both sides and concentrate on us instead of handing our money (that we are borrowing) and giving it to our enemies. We also need to secure our boarders and bring our boys home. These people do not want us there, so we should arm both sides to the teethe and let them kill each other off, we will be better without either side. In the end we can come back and pick up the pieces without payment of the most precious kind, our children's blood.

Wouldn't it be cool if we could package the written/typed words and find some use for them? Perhaps we could mix them with ashphalt and pave the roads. I mean, so many of them really aren't worth anything more than that.

This same old issue. The same things being said. "Yes they did" "No they didn't". People who embrace history and those who deny it.

There is comfort in "What is, is." Israel is here. Israel will endure. The millions of Arabs clamoring for Israel's destruction will have a future and a hope if they will lay down the aggression towards Israel and towards each other. Talking Head Obama knows the ship is sinking, and his disrespectful, chastising, 'better-pay-attention-to-me-or-else" track that he's on right now will only further ensure he's handed his hat next year. Unfortunately, we in America who have needed leadership are suffering in the void, doing the best we are able without that leadership. I think it's past the point of "If he will do this then people will love him". I don't think there's anything he can do to repair the damage he has done, and the best thing he can do now is live out the remainder of his term quietly and without causing us to be the source of Arab laughter and Israeli anger. He thinks he knows...he does not. He thinks he understands...he does not. And he most certainly does not appear to be listening so he might know; listening so he might understand.

I hear a lot of complaints about how unreasonable Obama's suggestion is - but at least it is a motherf'ing suggestion. What do you got? What has anyone had?

Either unleash Israel completely or force a compromise. Israel is not innocent here, and neither are the Palestinians. Both are aggressors.

The status quo of perpetual warfare between Israel and its neighbors is simply a thorn in the side of the rest of the world. It is a money pit.

Many of the commentors on here seem to simply complain about how the situation will never be fixed. Great... that does about as much good as complaining about how your flat-tire will never inflate itself.

Tbenton - Agreed! When the Mexican president makes statements about how the U.S. should conduct itself, the American populous gets bent out of shape, which they should. For the U.S. to presume to dictate policy to Israel or any other country is fairly arrogant. So the argument is, well, we should stop sending them financial aid. Ok fine. But that goes for everyone else too.

1967 borders? Israel was attacked and won that land.

keeping todays borders is the only thing allowing Jews to have one safe place

You do realize that Israel has not annexed the West Bank or the Gaza strip right? There's no way Israel can continue to occupy the entire West Bank indefinitely without becoming the minority in the combined territory (which is why they do not WANT to annex the West Bank).

Everybody, including Netanyahu, knows that the 1967 borders will form the basis for negotiations on the new boundary, and everyone, including Abbas, knows that there will be deviations from the 1967 border, especially in Jerusalem.

Going back to 1947-48

It's time to go forward, not back.

PEACE NOW!

Obama, a ego maniac idealist, a "community organizer", with no military experience, who just "oversaw" the killing of Osama bin Laden, has no clue, that there are people in the world who will kill to get what they want. Yet, Obama is one.

Should the United States be given "back" to the original inhabitants - the real natives, because they were conquered?

Life is, and always has been, survival of the fittest!

Obama is going to lead the world into WWIII, with his naive, inept, idealistic ways!

The Demise of America continues!

I'm so sick of hearing Israel disrespect our government, despite the billions in aid and international reputation we have given up in Israel's name.

Like the time when Biden went to Israel (last year?) to discuss the "peace roadmap", he was there to negotiate the roadmap but at the same time, unbenounced to him, Israel was building new illegal settlements even as they met together. It was a deliberate ploy to embarrass the VP and show the international community who really pulls the strings.

Sure, the Palestinians have fomented plenty of violence on their part. But for any stupid fellow American to blindly support Israel (oh, 'cause they're "God's chosen people", don't cha know!) without recognizing her antagonistic policies, proves that we have been hoodwinked continually by those who do not represent our best interests.

Israel had her chance to create peace throughout the years. If Israel depends on us to provide ongoing military aid because she cannot be bothered to stop killing innocent Gazans, or stop annexing (fancy word for stealing) Palestinian lands, then she deserves to be "surrounded by Arabs who want her destruction".

The whole reason (besides to line the pockets of corporations?) we have been fighting "terrorism" in the ME so long is primarily because of our blind support for Israel, and our complete abandonment of the Arab people who have lived there since the dawn of civilization.

And for Netanyahu to blatantly disrespect our president is unacceptable. I say, f--- him and the rest of the Zionists........you want our money, you play by OUR rules. Period.

Now, I'm ready for the ignorant fundamentalist Christians to flame me for being an "anti-semite". Go ahead......I'll check back later for a few laughs...

We attacked Mexico and took Texas. So do we give that back, because all the Mexicans who are "moving in"? This president can't run this country, he should stay out of the others. And Israel should declare total and unconditional war on Hamas.

Obama, a ego maniac idealist, a "community organizer", with no military experience, who just "oversaw" the killing of Osama bin Laden, has no clue, that there are people in the world who will kill to get what they want. Yet, Obama is one.

Should the United States be given "back" to the original inhabitants - the real natives, because they were conquered?

Life is, and always has been, survival of the fittest!

Obama is going to lead the world into WWIII, with his naive, inept, idealistic ways!

erm what?

israel has no right to do what they are doing. this isn't a long time ago hundreds of years ago this is recent.

The 1967 borders is nothing new. It matters not though. The Arab world won't be happy until Israel is wiped off the face of the map.

What Obama is trying to do is subdue Israel. As a "Christian" he should be cognizant that he is not to do that - without penalty of judgement. A friend does not treat a friend as he is doing. Isreal has done nothing to him - unless he is either an egomaniac, a muslim or a muslim sympathazer.

First, Obama is not in touch with reality, got that.

Second, Israel did not start the 6 day war but they did end it.

Third, following the logic of the intelligent posters this morning America should give Texas back to Mexico.

Fourth, if Canada invaded America, and we beat the crud out of them and took land in Canada, America can do what it wants with the land. Why some of you think that the loser gets the spoils... I have no idea.

Fifth, we give aid to Israel because Israel is our deterrent in the middle east. Of course we give them the most aid. If the muslims have a convenient target 200 miles away it was supposed to prevent them from hitting targets 2000 miles away. That didnt work to well.

Sixth, Israel gave back the Gaza strip, what did those peace loving muslims do to the land? They burnt it. Tore up the gardens. Destroyed the houses.

Muslims prefer to live in mud huts while their leaders live in palaces. Why do you think muslims rioted in Paris and BURNT cars and buildings.

I hate to be simplistic but its all very simple and explains most of the hardships we humans get to enjoy...

You cannot give primitives technology. Watch Stargate... The aliens never give us peons any technology, and why????? Because we will destroy ourselves with it.

Look at most problems in the last 2 centuries, including British spreading of gunpowder across Africa(see Shaka Zulu), and you will find primitive humans being given technology(generally for profit of modern country).

You reap what you sow.

@Patriotic American

Look at all the loose wingnuts that support the Democrat Socialists with their rage & acting like mad dogs. All you screw up crazy clowns are a dangerous mix and a disgrace to America. The people of America are getting sick of you ZOO FANS. Now l think its time for all you Pinko lovers to start moping up O's mess. PS President Obama is wrong.

What an easy game to play.

Ummmm (so called) Patriotic American USA...

Read your own post and tell me who is a "Mad Dog"....

You say "The people of America are sick of.... Who?"....

Don't be fooled by your own silly thinking, your in the vast minority pal. VAST minority. Before you "Community Organizer" lemonaid stand salesman took credit for our Military actions against Bin Laden, His poll numbers were right there with Jimmy Carters..... Give it a month or two and it will be right back there. Particularly when he looks so far out of his league in international affairs.

Right now, not only are we loosing our allies on a wholesale basis, even our enemies have begun to snicker at this quack of an international statesman.

Better wise up...(so called) Patriot. Your "BOY" sucks and not good.

Have to agree with Sabot and Derek,

If unPatriotic American's post isnt a classic example of a pot calling a kettle black... I have no idea what is.

It doesn't matter on the past, the demographics have changed over the past 50 yrs.

The best viable option for a Palestine state would be to give up lands to the North and GAZA. Then extend new international recognized boarders South from Jerusalem along highway 40.

The last time Israel was separated this was this was the land that had succession.

...Israel can never be a truly peaceful Jewish state if it insists on "permanent occupation."

Israel, do you really think that you can ride on the back of this tiger for ever? Now that you are given a chance to get off without being eaten, why don't you take advantage of it? Tomorrow might be too late, unless it is your destiny to keep fighting until the end of time.

The American taxpayer will have to pay BILLIONS for the illegal settlements and illegal settlers, squatters ? to be moved.
The American taxpayer probably paid for the illegal settlements to be built.
Another muti-billion dollar BAIL OUT.

infrared

pretty weak logic you are using - "israel has no right to do what they are doing. this isn't a long time ago hundreds of years ago this is recent."

Would not that logic apply to the US in regards to Iran, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan and all US intervention for the US?

The Demise of America continues!

Second, Israel did not start the 6 day war but they did end it.

they started it. quit denying history.

Could you imagine Isreal, or any civilized country, saying that the U.S. must return to its 1845 borders (before the Mexican-American War)?

B.O. is destroying our international relationships while simultaneously showing his arrogance and ignorance.

Nice idea Nate but the muslims have no notion for making concessions. They have one goal. Remove Israel from Jerusalem.

Unfortunately the muslims have a very good network for spreading disinformation. They even have racist skinheads working for them, see posters on this board.

Its like we have become a nation of stressed out moms. We are all like Cartman's mom. Cartman, the muslims, cry and whine and blow crap up. Instead of us, Cartman's mom, spanking the crud out of him, we give Cartman what he wants hoping to appease the little worm.

Does that work??? NO!!!

So now we have let the entire muslim world know that we are weak, coddling, fools.

Repeat after me, the only way to pacify an opponent whose goal is to spread the Caliph worldwide... Get ready to have morning, pre lunch, after lunch, supper and dinner prayers...

Ignorant liberal idiots... Muslims do not want to be your friend. They want to convert you. Nothing more and nothing less. If you were on fire in Iran they would use you to burn American flags.

You reap what you sow.

I fail to see how Israel "rightfully" earned any land beyond the '67 border.

While a peaceful Israel sits in the valley at the foot of the Golan Heights they are ATTACKED by coward arabs standing atop the cliffs killing them like shooting fish in a barrel.

I would go eat that coward arabs lunch if I could and take his cliff top perch of death too.

AND SO WOULD YOU.

They didn't START the war but they sure as hell finished it and to spoils of war to the victor. PERIOD. They stole NOTHING.

I find it hard to support a theocracy, and yes Israel is a theocracy.

I'm not saying that an independant Palestine would be any better.

But that's just the problem, both of these nations are divided upon religious lines, and refuse assimilation. "Modern" nation my arse. There is nothing modern about a theocratic system of government which refuses to allow non-Jews citizenship.

There will never be peace until there is secularism.

B.O. is destroying our international relationships while simultaneously showing his arrogance and ignorance.

so we should let any nation just simply conquer? if it was done hundred of years ago it can be done today? that is an insane ideology.

Fourth, if Canada invaded America, and we beat the crud out of them and took land in Canada, America can do what it wants with the land. Why some of you think that the loser gets the spoils... I have no idea.

Untrue. The UN Declaration specifically forbids the acquisition of land by force. PERIOD.

why don't we go on and give Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California back to Mexico (this is what he is in essence asking Israel to do)

That's a naive argument. It displays no understanding of the situation in the Middle East and has no intellectual merit beyond that.

If peace comes, it will be based on the 1967 borders, with minor modifications to accomodate Israeli security offset by minor modifications to Palestine. Netanyahu knows this, Abba knows this, and both sides are willing to agree to this if other matters can be settled.

A major point that most people here seem to forget is that Israel gave back the entire Gaza and got back nothing!!!! The country that lost the West Bank in 1967 was not Palestine or the Palestinians, it was JORDAN. The country that the palestinians should be in is Jordan. The west bank was annexed by Jordan in 1948 and no one had an issue with that. When Jordan lost the west bank in the 6 Day War, it was a result of JORDANIAN agression. Jordon came into the war late after Nasser of Egypt convinced King Hussein that the Egyptians were winning. Has Jordan not attacked Israel, there would be west bank issue unless the palestinians would be fighting with Jordan for their independance.

Pro Israel here obviously. I don't believe there is any international law requiring a nation that took land in war to give it up. Thats pointless, if your attacked and the enemy doesn't have any consequences for attacking that nation that won, they would do it again.

Obama can try to do whatever he wants. Israel won't bend. If Obama tries to do sanctions or military action, on my life, there will be millions of Americans up in arms or protesting. If you think then that the military would put them down, think again.

In the end, this is all for show for Obama, he knows he can't force Israel to do something without serious actions being taken here on the homefront.

May Yahweh continue to bless and protect Israel.

Epinnoia,

Kindly reread what I posted.

If Canada attacked America. I can think of many scenarios where Canada attacks America and America has need to occupy portions of Canada.

We still "occupy" parts of Japan and I assure you we bulldoze all sorts of buildings and rebuild the land into military bases.

Does ONE...just ONE "pro-'67 border" advocate on here address Israel's security ?

The facts are that Hammas, Hezbollah, Syria are NOT saying "go back to '67 borders and we'll stop the terror". What they ARE saying is "When Israel is wiped off the map, THEN terror will stop".

So - Israel left Gaza: Result - more rockets.

So - Israel forcibly removed settlors 4 years ago: result - more rockets.

HOW can Obama think that reverting to '67 borders will ease the tension when the PALS dont even say that ?

Terror has found its way into Israel, with governments saying "hey, it's not US, it's terrorists !" - "when" Israel goes back to the '67 borders, and terror continues, the governments of Lebanon, Pal, etc., will STILL simply say "It's not US, firing rockets - its those terrorists".

I ask EVERYONE here - "What does Israel get in return for reverting to '67 borders"?

A major point that most people here seem to forget is that Israel gave back the entire Gaza and got back nothing!!!!

yeah they gave up a territory that wasn't then sealed it off.

So - Israel left Gaza: Result - more rockets.

they left and sealed it off.

So - Israel forcibly removed settlors 4 years ago: result - more rockets.

its settlers and if they did there were 20 more settlers that came.

Obama's speach last night intentionally pre-empted Netanyahu's visit to the
US to address the Congress and others. Obama sent two main messages to the Arab world in his speech:

1. Announcing that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders, gave his
approval for the Arabs to cross the existing borders, which of course would
result in many deaths.

2. Obama told the Palestinians and the Arab world that the US will NOT vote
for recognition of a Palestinian State at the UN. This told the Palestinian's
that they will have to FIGHT for it.

First, I think you seriously overestimate the general public's support of Israel's current policy in regards to the Palestinians. I would say more Americans are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Certainly the politicians are far more sympathetic to the Israeli's because of the donations they get here in America. That is fact, I work with someone who is the finance chairman for a US Senator, and is Jewish, and has said as much.

I think it is incredibly presumptuous of Bibi to say that he "expects" anything of a US President, as if he holds any of the power in this issue. Fact is, we supply aid, we harm our international image and self interests through our unconditional support of Israel- they need us far more than we need them.

I know you are going to talk of intelligence sharing, and only allie in the region... With the current climate in the Middle East, everything is changing and we need to stay ahead of the movment.

In the end, Israel is isolating themself more and more daily in the international community, and are on an unsustainable path. It's interesting that so many in Israel seem to understand this, yet so few American Jews do. I think we all hope for peace, but how will it be achieved? Certainly not through the status quo which is what Israel is shooting for.

1. Announcing that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders, gave his
approval for the Arabs to cross the existing borders, which of course would
result in many deaths.

israelis crossed the borders and caused many deaths so your point is what?

America today Anthony, we do not occupy Japan. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Just more on the job training for Obama.

For you people that are yelling about the actions of Israel, let me move into your back yard and throw dynamite sticks at your yard when your children, grandchild, and friends are over. And then if you retaliate, I will scream that you are a racist, that you are a aggressor. Now after a while, you come through and put a fence up, and put a buffer zone so I can not throw dynamite at you, but who cares, I have friends down the street that gave me rockets and c-4, so now I am firing the rockets not only at your back yard but at your house. But do not fight back because all the neighbors will call you a aggressor and violent bent. Then along comes a idiot that is part of the government and he tells you the only way to stop this is to remove the fence, give back the buffer zone and just turn my cheek when they fire rockets at me.

Are we Americans really so naive that we think this is the solution. And what gives us the right to attack when we are attacked once on our homeland and yet these people are fired at every day. Has Israel over-reacted, of course, but then so did we. And this President we have is in no position to talk, what has Libya done to us lately that he is supporting and giving aid to the goal of overthrowing their government. (It's not that I do not agree, it's just that I am tired of his hypocrisy blaming Bush for fighting his own war, keeping prisoners in Cuba, and then he goes and does the same thing himself). And do not dare question his actions, or you are labelled a racist, so if questioning this president and administration makes me a racist then I am a very proud racist who is married into a multicultural marriage, am a god-father to children of many different races. Sadly, it is this administration that is going to destroy the stigma of racism, and we sit back with our silly collective guilt and let them do it. It is time for every conservative American, no matter what race, religion, or sexual orientation and stand up to this government and tell them to get out of our lives, protect our boarders, and quite borrowing money to give to people who at any other time would be our enemy.

infrared

Second, Israel did not start the 6 day war but they did end it.

they started it. quit denying history.

You are incorrect Infrared, you are the one in denial.

If you want to know why Obama is doing this simply Google George Soros middle east plan.

The only thing worse than a idiot liberal is a idiot liberal billionaire.

By the way notice how Obama went after the evil oil companies after his buddy Soros got a 12 billion windfall from Obama, see Petrobas.

Not that its any different from Bush's oil buddies getting first crack at Kurdish oil contracts.

ViVa America~!

1. Announcing that Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders, gave his approval for the Arabs to cross the existing borders, which of course would result in many deaths.

2. Obama told the Palestinians and the Arab world that the US will NOT vote for recognition of a Palestinian State at the UN. This told the Palestinian's that they will have to FIGHT for it.

Well, at least you listened to the speech. Sort of.

1. President Obama did NOT call on Israel to unilaterally withdraw to pre-1967 borders, nor did he call on outside Arab nations to occupy the West Bank, which seems to be what you imply. He DID say that boundaries have to be drawn between Israel and Palestine, that the boundaries will essentially be the 1967 borders with minor modifications based on land swaps allowed to accomodate Israeli security concerns. President Obama also said that an independent Palestine will have to do without a military.

2. President Obama DID say that the United States will not allow the United Nations to declare Palestine state if there is no peace agreement with Israel. He made it very clear he would veto any attempt to use the UN to circumvent the peace process. He did NOT encourage Palestine to fight; in fact he said the opposite. He said that Palestine MUST achieve peace with Israel if they want statehood.

Stewgots you are correct that Israel launched the first strike in the six day war,but one has to look a little further. Prior to the attack Jordan,Iraq,Egypt and Syria had amassed a large fighting force along their border with Israel with the intention of an all out assault on Israel.

As it is so thinly veiled on Fox news and these blogs,

The reason the right is so fired up about this issue, isn't because they give too $hits about Israelites. It's because they don't want Muslims having a piece of the Holy Land.

Will you at least admit this?

To all the morons saying that 'Isreal "won" that land when they "won" the 1967 War........well, I'm guessing you backed Sadaam Hussein when he "won" Kuwait back in early 1990 and protested against Daddy Bush when he went to force him to 'return to the pre-August 1990 borders'?

Shulock Arab Israeli's are citizens and have the same rights as Jews

America first that is the lamest argument I've heard,Kuwait didn't attack Iraq,your just upset because Israel kicked the crap out of all those Arab losers and infrared Israel did launch the first attack of the six day war only after noticing that the loser Arab countries had amassed large armies on their border which you somehow managed to leave out

Tbenton, first you need to set up the story correctly- how did you procure your house in the first place? I am not excusing violence, but Israel needs to stop playing the role of the victim- that ship has sailed.

@D Man

As the Liberal media tries to hide from America...

The reason the left so desperately wants more Government run programs and entitlements isn't because you give two s#!ts about the poor. It's because it will keep the majority of the Liberal voting base dependant on the Government thereby insuring votes from the poor communities?

Will you at least admit to this?

"NUTS."

@ Sabot

I personally could give two $hits about welfare. I agree with you, I do think it "keeps the man down" so to speak, for various reasons.

Your turn.

Tens of thousands of unarmed Palestinians were forced off land they had lived on for hundreds of years. Still, people could argue forever over the historical right or wrong of this. One fact is clear the Palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust.

My complaint is that American tax payers are forced to send billions in cash and billions in weapons to Israel. Israelis enjoy free education, free health care, 0% home loans and many things too good for Americans. Our middle class is declining, poverty is growing, homes are being repossessed and we are supporting people that have things we can't afford. Insane!

We do this because our prostitute government is scared to death of the Israeli lobby. They will spend millions against any politician that says a word against Israel. We are in bad need of a government that puts our people first.

I work with someone who is the finance chair for a US Senator- you are right. The Jewish political money in the US is something no candidate can afford to lose. So, given the fact that most average Americans don't really have a vested interest in Israel/Palestine one way or the other, they can kowtow to their interests.

Obama doesn't understand reality. Our tax dollars are better spent in Israel than America. What are we going to do with 3 billion? Build new roads? Pfffft.

Should raise taxes and send Israel more.

ChiCity,

I tried to buy some land but the people went crazy and tried not to only kill me but everyone of my race, so I kicked them out and took it. Had they dealt peacefully with me they would have had their land, they could have sold some of it at a huge profit and been treated like a citizen. You will not get sympathy out of me towards the Palestinians, take a look at their actions in 1952 and you will see why Israel tried to deal peacefully with them and then when they turned violent, kicked the whole mass of them out. And if you are going to scream, then why does the USA have the right to take land from me if the government deems it necessary.

Religions (and religious beliefs), aren't rooted in "logic", just superstition.

Tbenton, you are talking about emminent domain- I work in real estate, I understand it well. The "government" can only take land through eminent domain if they can prove it is for the public good, and then you are compensated fairly for it with a process to appeal the decision. However, the US could never use eminent domain to seize land from Canada, because it isn't theirs to take. Your analogy is flawed.

wlee, Your right in that Kuwait didn't attack Iraq....just as Palestine hadn't attacked Isreal. Isreal invaded the land that Obama wants them to give back, the same way Iraq invaded Kuwait and Bush wanted them to give it back to Kuwait.

I'm glad you at least admit that. You just seem to think it's ok, since it's Isreal, for an invading nation to keep land after the war. I'm guessing you disagree with the USA for giving back Germany and Japan after WWII.