So true, Barlow... so true.

A bearded, middle-eastern man in praying while wearing non-western clothes. Yup, Jesus would be in Gitmo within an hour.

Lucy,

Just checked the Constitution for the, "Government shall make no attempt to institute a sexual orientation, and there will be freedom from the gays."

There's a difference between private-funded celebrations of a minority that is descriminated against, and the public-endorsed celebration of a religious institution, which the Constitution bans. If Perry wasn't using his office as governor to promote it, and was just attending as a private citizen, that would be another matter.

This guy is a RELIGIOUS FRUITCAKE! ''

"I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me," . "I submitted myself to His will and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works.":Barack Obama. Jon are you not being a bit of a HYPOCRIT as obama also "praises baby jesus''?

If Perry wasn't using his office as governor to promote it, and was just attending as a private citizen, that would be another matter.

EXACTLY!

Please will some one stick a sock in governor good hair's mouth? The minute he opens it he offends half the people of Texas along with the rest of the country. Any moron thinking about trotting this guy out for the President really needs to have a reality check and come live here in the great state of Texas to see what the man is truly about.

Jon are you not being a bit of a HYPOCRIT as obama also "praises baby jesus''?

Nope. If Obama said this, I'd be up his a** with commentary as well. That said, I'd wager BO is less religious than he is forced to appear due to this country's morbid obsession with myths.

Let me put it this way: Thomas Jefferson would never be elected today. In fact, he'd have the Bachmanns, Perrys, and Palins of the world denouncing him as "unpatriotic."

It's complete and utter lunacy.

Perry is about as religious as his old boss, GWB. How many of those attending this prayer fest will admit that global warming is real? That climate change is a real part of that process, and we can expect even more wild swings of weather as this process takes place? Pray for understanding of the hows and whys we are going through this, not to expect God to rain down his blessings on a creature that is in the process of destroying his work.

Keck,
Most of us liberals remember that there is suppose to be a separation between church and state. Since when are today's conservatives that much smarter than the founders of the Constitution?

Keck,
I know some very nice Republicans who agree that there should be separation of church and state. I do not hate people because of their political affiliations, but I bet you can't make the same claim. I'll wager that you are like the idiot in the video talking about having sex with demons. Personally, I don't believe in demons or the devil so you can hate me for that along with my liberal beliefs. Oh by the way, I am a Texan.

Oh Please...

I am not a liberal but there is a time and a place... When I was growing up we rarely had public prayer and when we did it was no big deal. Some prayed, some didn't. People just didn't make a show out of it like they do today. Today's Christianity is so offensive. I love God but I don't think it's appropriate to shove that down anyone's throat and I'm not in a position of political power. There is very little difference in what Governor Perry is doing and what many Islamic leaders do. If he wants to spend his life spreading the word of God then he's in the wrong job. Next time he reads the Bible (assuming he reads it) he should take 10 - 15 minutes to also skim over the Constitution.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Atheist and left wing zealots did not say anything about the use of NASA to promote Muslim causes or the big dinner offer to Muslims in the day of Ramadan. If you want to preach separation of church and state it must be with no exception, this is a display of hypocrisy .

catydid, thanks for insulting me.

your remarks are repugnant, i am a christian, like president obama....i pray sometimes.

i feel sorry for you....you say you are a liberal , yet you are so intolerant...what is that ?

i could care less what you believe.....why should you mock what perry and obama believe in ?

...how is the weather in austin tonight btw ?

Texas Gov. Rick Perry on Thursday defended his upcoming Christian prayer gathering as a "simple," non-political event that has come under attack from intolerant atheists.

So, Is Mr Perry willing announce to agnostic indifference day and stop trying to force feed a "state religion" down the throats of his constituents? I thought the majority of Americans actually would stand up and stop this bull---t. Allegedly, the populous has deep concern over other counties have an official state religion and living in a total theocracy. Bachmann, Perry, Palin--these people constantly flaunt their religion while spending other peoples money. I don't like any of the GOP crowd but, they're just harmless and goofy and only excite the "god fearing" NASCAR, Fox watching folks.

oskar... how did NASA promote Muslim causes? Who offered the dinner to Muslims during Ramadan? And why would a dinner during Ramadan be cause for an uproar? We don't have an uproar if there's a Christmas or Easter or even Hanukkah celebration/dinner at the White House, why should a dinner celebrating Ramadan be any different. (I'm assuming it was a dinner at the White House because I haven't a clue what you're referring to).

I hear this word "tolerance" thrown around a lot. Since when is anyone declaring you cannot practice a religion? It's when an individual decides that *his* religion is suitable and de facto and he will use *your* money to promote *his* religion without regard to the constitution then it clearly becomes *our* business.

The fact of the matter is guys like this are actually helping to create more atheists every day. Religion is in a decline and for some reason the religious are worried about that. Why? Just believe what you believe, practice what you practice then piss off and leave the rest of us alone.

its funny because PRESIDENT OBAMA IS A CHRISTIAN

Keck- Thats hilarious- Hows Austin tonight? That was exactly what I was thinking "must be from Austin" funny how mad they get to have the conservsative Gov right in heir city LOL!!!

Keck,
You who claim to be a good Christian are also intolerant. Your post insulted liberal people, I just threw your words back at you. I don't care if you or any one else prays, it is your own business. But don't force me to pray, I don't believe in a supreme being, and I don't want a government to force it upon me. The founders of our Constitution were brilliant. We don't need some ridiculous governor to undermine the Constitution.

catydid, honey....i never claimed to be "good"....but i did say that i prayed.

......you do know the constitution protects my freedom to pray....and yours if you choose not to.

now....what the weather like up there ?

Mark and keck,
I live in a suburb of Dallas, not far from your hero President Bush. We don't need another Texan for president, just look at the financial situation in our state, obviously Perry can't balance a budget.

Caty - nobody forcing you to pray nobody forcing you to go nobody keeping you from bashing us or our gov. The founders of the constitution are brilliant when it suits your needs but let a liberal not like what is in the costitution then they disagree or twist its meaning or just say that it doesnt apply huh? This is the gov. that was elected just as you have yor lib pres that was elected that we dont need to undermine our constitution why are you not shouting about that?

Well Mark,
It is very easy to switch your words around and say when conservatives don't like the Constitution blah, blah, blah. You keep bashing me, and calling me and other liberals intolerant but you are equally as intolerant. Use to be that people could belong to different political parties and still be civil. But those who have gone to extremes on either side of the aisle are ruining the country. By the way, how is the weather up in Lubbock tonight?

catydid, are you going to protest perry when he gets elected as our 45th president of the united states and has "prayer breakfasts" at the white house, like obama does ?

sorry catydid, i thought you lived in hippy hollow.

actually our state is doing pretty well, compared with all others in the union right now.....perry has a good chance of getting the nominee for 2012....and possibly winning.

the weather ? i'm about 30 miles from galveston bay....hot and humid.

Darlin,
Perry will be President when pigs fly. Our state is broke just like the rest, our educational system is poor at best, and Perry doesn't want to kick the illegals out of Texas, so how is that gonna fly with the rest of the country. That good ole boy is only good for shootin coyotes and chupacabbara with a shot gun while walking his dog. Coward.

Perry's office issued a press release June 6 announcing the event, and The Response website features the governor in a video inviting people to participate.

Other than the fact that he is using government resources which is in direct contrast to the constitutional seperation of church and state, I don't see anything wrong with these people putting on public displays of affections. Lotsa hugging and blessings amongst the sinners but little forgiveness ever comes out of any of them. Did the Governor just oppose the White Houses attempted intercession into another of the state of Texas performing an act of public executions? I thought they were christians as Christ would have not have condoned their public executions.

LOL.

see you at the pols in 2012

g'night catydid.

Keck, Catydid - just get a room and let all the tension go, man!!!!

(Saying this in jest - no hate)

lucy: ''Brewmaster Obama being the first Pres. to brew his own beer in the White House?'' Really? I think this is great OBAMABEER actually do like this.

Wow, anybody else embarrassed for Mark and Keck?

Catydid, thanks for the rationality - glad to see there are indeed some level-headed thinkers down there in Texas.

Cheers

Keck, Catydid

Yeah, you can pray all you want but it I can garanty it won't change a thing or any of your problems.

It is so funny that many european countries are secular and religion is seen as an absurdity and as a primitive institution, it is funny, because some of the most secular countries in europe are in fact doing so much better than the usa.. France has a credit rating of AAA+, as good as switzerland or germany. Perry is a delusional idiot, he is really what is wrong in america and truely an ennemy of the american constitution. Forefathers were very clear, no religion in state affairs. If you cannot respect the constitution, just MOVE, you really do not belong in america..

I am traveling in the usa, right now and I just cannot believe how ran down this country is. Yeah, america is in deep decline, thanks to religious nut cases like Perry and Bush.

Brings Carter to mind with his Billy Beer. He even had peanuts with his beer.

If the "majority of Texans" that support this idiot are the 6,000 that are expected to show up for this event[and they'll "fill Reliant stadium"---what, like loaves and fishes?], then Texas is a LOT smaller than Texans' egos let on.

Oh, and Perry couldn't get elected to pick up the soap in a jail cell, as he's a bit too well used.

It kind of tweaks me that he is holding this event at "Reliant Stadium".

An old teacher of my used to regularly tell us "you are the company you keep", "you are who your friends are". I have grown to realize that while that is not completely true, if you look at all of your friends and those that you surround yourself with you can have a pretty good mirror of who you are.

I think Governor Perry surrounding himself with Hate Mongering Religious Fanatics instead of the many Religious Leaders who preach Reverence and Tolerance pretty much reflects what kind of man he is. Vote accordingly.

"Texas governor defends prayer day after lawsuit filed "

The 'elephant' is in the room.

What's wrong with prayer?

I have no problem with Prayer, I just object to a Public Official giving a platform and tasset endoursement to Hate Mongers.

I've got no problem with a government leader attending such an event, but to have said leader use the governments resources to promote it is a violation of the Constitution.

plain and simple

What's wrong with Obama brewing his own beer? It's called a hobby and it's more than likely funded by him privately.

People forget, Jesus's first miracle involved turning water into wine. Not just some grape flavored juice.

Oh, and Jesus was a liberal.

I think Gov. Perry is trying to pray his gay away...and if thats true, he's going to need all the prayers he can get. Either that or he needs to go see Michele Bachman's husband.

''What's wrong with Obama brewing his own beer?''

BJs65-634377 I agree anyone who has a problem with this is just nitpicking,just a hobby.

Give a man a fish he eats for a day(Liberal) Teach a man to fish he eats for life(Conservative). Yes Jesus did mention Liberals.

Mr. perry obviously does not understand the oath he made when he took public office. Look up the part where it says separation of church and state. While he is trying to place a church inside government this hypocrite doesn't think twice about sending a possible innocent man to the death chamber and then turn around and pray to 'jesus'. Keep looking. That need you have to seek for redemption is called a dirty conscience.

Not true: I'm liberal and I fish and I eat. I take care of those around me in need.

Silly this liberal / conservative cr@p. Jesus would forgive both of them.

ModerateinMassachusetts

"how did NASA promote Muslim causes? Who offered the dinner to Muslims during Ramadan? And why would a dinner during Ramadan be cause for an uproar? We don't have an uproar if there's a Christmas......."

Charles Bolden the head of NASA testify in congress that President Obama give him instructions that the first priority of NASA was outreach Muslim countries. This is promote a cause a religion because Obama is explicitlyignoring that many countries in the meddle east have citizens from other religions, why not outreach the Christian world, the Vatican, the Hindu or the Budist world .

Why not uproar ? Ramadan is a Muslim Religious holiday and Obama offer a dinner to Muslim religious leaders and members of their community, whee he mention the importance of the Muslim contribution to our society, however Obama in the most important Cristian holiday he never had dinner or held any event celebrate Christmas with Christian religious leaders , also he made Christmas a secular holiday tryng to limit his religious importance, and never mention Jesus birth . So my question again is . Where is the outrage from you,about the separation Church (religion) and state in the case of Muslims. All this is hypocrisy and a war against Christians because for the first time a President said "We are not a Christian nation" when most of the Americans are Christians and our culture is base on Judeo-Christians principals not in Hindu, Budist or Islamic principals. We are a Christian nation but a secular country.

Obama's Day of Prayer does not equal Obama's Day of Christian Prayer. The National Day of Prayer is not exclusive to Christians.

Mark Brantley

This is the gov. that was elected

and he is supposed to represent ALL Texans and not just the Christian ones.

Very good point bayllie. This is something people just cannot seem to understand. Gov. Perry thinks he only has to represent those who are 'like him' and can exclude anyone who doesn't think and pray 'like him'.

Pathetic.

Thank you, BJs65-634377

There is nothing wrong in believing in something...especially when it makes you a better person but I will not agree with anyone who states that one religion is superior over others (or no religion at all).

You can be a good human being AND not believe in God. These two are not mutually inclusive.

Also, the parading of religion by the public officials usually means that they are trying to make up for something else (guilt maybe?).

Since when does it mean you abdicate your 1st Amendment rights when you are elected to office. Many politicians have attended prayer breakfasts in the past. Atheists have tried these lawsuits in the past and have never gotten anywhere. Separation of church and state never has meant that you are free from seeing or hearing any religion. Perry's attendance in no way establishes any state religion. He is just exercising his right to worship under the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment give no right for any person to limit where or when an individual, even if he is an elected official, can exercise his rights.

@wizard61 and everyone else on this thread using the argument that there is no separation of Church and State in the Constitution

You are both right and wrong. You are right that the separation of church and state was not defined in the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

However, you are wrong if you beleive it doesn't exist. The definition of "separation of Church and State" as we know it today was added to the Establishment Clause by the Supreme Court in 1878. Therefore it is legally valid.

@Ray W.

Nobody wants to restrict Gov. Perry's First Amendment right to attend the religious function. The point is that he used his Government Office to promote his religious function. That is where he is in the wrong and must be brought to task for it. For Great Justice and all that.

Constitution arguments aside, it is illegal for any federal employee to use their government affiliations to promote something that isnt officially supported by or in the best interests of the government.

fate has a problem.

how can you prove that this prayer event is "officially supported" (whatever this means).....and is against the best interests of the government ?

what ?

@RayW,

I'm sorry but the judicial precedent disagrees with you. Wiki the following cases:

Lemon v. Kurtzman 1971
Lynch v. Donnelly 1984

It is very clear that government officials are on thin ice when they use their elected position to advance or organize a religious event. This example in Texas is especially egregious and warrants scrutiny. Perry would not wield the ability to organize this event where it not for his position and notoriety as Governor. I'm glad the FFRF has taken this up.

I am very wary and suspicious of politicians who wear their religion like a cloak for all to see. It's as though they're saying "See? I'm a GOOD Christian (or whatever) watch me pray!" It's like they're trying to prove something or as bayllie said, perhaps trying to cover up something.

It's one thing to show off your religion and it's quite another to actually walk the walk, talk the talk and do the do. Rick Perry is just showboating. It's pathetic.

Rick Perry is an idiot and nothing more than a George Bush hand-me-down.

Sure hope he runs! Can't wait to see him handed his hat!

How about Obama? His mentor was Rev. Wright.

So I guess you think that Obama was doing the same when he supported the national day of prayer??? If they want to gather and pray that is their freedom, if people don't like it, don't pay attention to it and don't participate. There are plenty of events that I disagree with, but I don't throw a fit like a spoiled brat and try and ruin it for them.

Just like he is doing now with Israel. Giving the PA (a terrorist organization) American Tax dollars.

I just hope this SCREWBALL doesn't become president! ''“I found myself drawn — not just to work with the church but to be in the church,” Obama said. “It was through this service that I was brought to Christ.” OOPS TOO LATE! Please let us not be HYPOCRITES!

Actually that's not true. Benjamin Franklin led our nation's leaders in prayer himself. Our leader's just did not want to establish a particular religion as a state religion, excluding others, as had been the practice in Europe at that time.

Of course the plantiffs are right here. Won't make a bit of difference though, not in Texas. This event will be heavy on politicalized rancor and seasoned with enough southern style religious bedlam to satisfy all who claim to be practitioners, or soothsayers of the great polygamous abstract, and mental polyglot, they have created and call God. I think it's really quite amusing, and could serve as a great aid to those who study gaps in anthropomorphic characterictics. Just another exercise in craziness. Nothing new or worth a damn.

Hasnt Obama been holding "Prayer Breakfasts" at the WH?

The last time a town pray to a Bush, they waited 40 YEARS IN THE DESERT.

( pun intented ).

Keck, speaking of the weather, it will be a cold day in hell when Perry's elected president. By aligning himself with some of those preachers, he's setting hismelf up for failure. When Hagee is the most rational among them, you know he's in trouble.

You don't like Christian principled politicians? Give me one really honest example how Christain Jeudeo princeples harm you or anyone for that matter. This country was founded upon Christian principles and by Christians. We have as stated in our constitution freedom of religion not freedom from religion. Though anyone who decides not to be a participant in religious gatherings nor support them is OK also. But politicians are citizens of this country and have the same privileges concerning religion as anyone else. So Gov. Perry has thr right to express himself as anyone esle. You of course do not have to participate as your right. But do reply and give us an answer to how ChristianJeudeo principles harm you.

Nothing wrong with prayer day. I hope you Christians (I'm christian), don't mind all others deciding to pray, their way, on that same day. Or is it your prayers only that matter? Would you allow a Muslim to come into your church, place their prayer rug on your alter and face the East to pray his or her way? Or are you so blind that you would do all in your small world to squelch any and all other religions? Is your own faith that puny?

I have a question. If the separation of church and state is such an issue, then why in the criminal justice system are you asked to place your hand on a bible and asked to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help thee God? Does that not violate the premise of separation of church and state? Does that mean atheist and agnostics could refuse to participate in court proceedings? Just curious

it just amazes me to see how much ignorance is shown here, for those of you who do not understand wjhat the governor is doing opena Bible if know what that is and look at I corinthians 2:14 for the rest of us who really believe in God, not jus a god but the real God let's pray so that on august the 6th this nation feels what a loving God is our God.

Actually, Double, there are several versions of the oath that is administered in court to witnesses. Some are asked to "affirm that I will tell the truth" with no mention of a god and do not place their hands upon a bible at all. Christians are asked to place their hands on the bible because that is a book they believe in. Some people are asked to place their hands on a bound copy of the Constitution or other acceptable NON-CHRISTIAN book instead. After all, what, exactly, about placing a hand on a CHRISTIAN BOOK would be binding to a Jew, a Muslim, a Sikh, a Buddhist etc ?

That was why I asked the question Cat. I have never been a juror or a witness in a court case so I was just curious. I was not aware that other forms of swearing in took place. Thank you for your reply.

I have been a witness at a preliminary hearing regarding my own apartment being burglarized. The defendants in that case took a plea so there was no trial. I am NOT a Christian. My oath was "Do you affirm that the testimony you give today is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" with no mention of God and no Bible.

These groups protesting *everything* Christian are hypocrites. No matter how you look at it, they are actively doing what they claim Christian groups are doing. Trying to force their beliefs on others.

If they want to hold a gathering of whatever sort that talks about being an atheist or agnostic or whatever, they have every right to do so. If they want to put up signs about not believing in God, they have every right to do so. And if someone tells them they are not allowed to do so, they will be up in arms about how they are being discriminated against. Yet, if Christians do any of that, these groups do everything they can to stop them. Talk about being hypocrites.

People should learn some history before spouting "separation of church and state" as they are usually wrong about what they think that means. It was never meant to say that government cannot support a religious event or that government cannot mention God anywhere. It was meant to prevent a government from recognizing only a single religion and preventing other religions from functioning and to prevent the church from running the country. There is a major difference there. If the founding fathers had known how out of context that phrase would be taken, they would never have put it in there.

I have nothing against anyone's belief in any religion or no religion. That is your right. It is my right to believe what I believe and to practice it in the way I choose, just like you can practice your beliefs in the way you choose. That of course doesn't mean you can start killing people because you believe in devil worshiping or whatever else. Why is it that atheists cannot be as accepting of others? Why is it that in some schools around the country, you cannot wear anything relating to God, but you can wear clothing depicting demons? You atheists complain about fairness and yet all I see are you trying to get more rights instead of equal rights.

Anyone who tries to deny the rights of any other group is wrong. Plain and simple.

then why in the criminal justice system are you asked to place your hand on a bible and asked to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help thee God?

You are not required to. That is optional. An acceptable alternative to swearing on the bible is "To tell the truth...under the threat of perjury."

I was not aware that other forms of swearing in took place.

You are given options, which allows for respect to the individual's beliefs, or lack thereof if applicable.

It was never meant to say that government cannot support a religious event or that government cannot mention God anywhere.

In simpler terms, the government cannot endorse, participate in, or validate any religious activity or practice, as that can be construed as a government sanction of a particular religion and in violation of the Establishment Clause.

. It was meant to prevent a government from recognizing only a single religion and preventing other religions from functioning and to prevent the church from running the country.

It was also meant to prevent an individual's religious beliefs from being made law or public policy, for the same reason I explained above.

If the founding fathers had known how out of context that phrase would be taken, they would never have put it in there.

I think the Founding Fathers knew exactly what they were doing and various SCOTUS precedents have only upheld what they intended.

Why is it that atheists cannot be as accepting of others?

We are quite accepting of others. What we are not accepting of is religuous groups trying to push their ideology onto the rest of us or into our government and laws.

Why is it that in some schools around the country, you cannot wear anything relating to God, but you can wear clothing depicting demons?

I'm not aware of any school which can prohibit an individual student from expressing their faith through dress, except for maybe safety concerns or if it violates a dress code. If that was the case otherwise, then a student might have a legal recourse.

You atheists complain about fairness and yet all I see are you trying to get more rights instead of equal rights.

Oh please. Stop the whining! Atheists have no more rights than anyone else.

Anyone who tries to deny the rights of any other group is wrong. Plain and simple.

So whose rights are being denied?

Social conservatives,

Do you think it is morally right to take taxes from someone and then use those taxes to promote a religion that is not shared by that taxpayer?

Elected officials represent everybody within their district, that includes people who didn't vote for them, people who can't vote, all religious types and all races found within their area that they represent. Therefore elected officials should act in the best interest of all those they represent, not the interests of one racial group, not the interests of one religious group but everyone. This is what Perry is doing wrong.

"That is blatantly illegal per our constitution for a person in political office to make that claim."

And that statement is simply not true. You may not like the statement, it may be a mean thing to say, but no criminal law is being broken by saying it. A public official has the same constitutional right to say disagreeable things as anyone else, whether you like it or not. The line is only crossed when the public official attempts to use the force of law, or public funds, or public property, in order to implement the objectionable idea. Feel free not to vote for him, as if that were about to happen.

I don't recall him putting the blame on atheists for the shape this country is in. He did comment about the atheists being intolerant. Ya know since the atheists have to be tolerated, it's about time the atheists start to tolerate as well. Freedom for all....remember????? People have as much right to speak about God as the atheists have to deny God. This whole tolerance thing in this country has to be for EVERYONE not just the choice few.

It is a Christians habit to be in conversation with God all the time. Why do you need a special day to pray. Perry is a fake Christian...Shades of Bush in Texas.

Amazing that the mocking and nasty remarks about people who believe in God will be allowed to run wild. But if the same tone is used towards gays, or atheists, you'd probably be banned from the vine. What a shame.

Love you Jesus.

Thankful Mom-3182614

I guess you think Obama is a "fake" Christian as well??????????

Thank you Lucy for speaking up Im sure thankful mom isnt fom Texas probably northeast or calif

Seem like Jesus had some very hash judgments towards those that flaunt their religious holier-than-thou attitudes, that pray in public and that look down at the poor and needy.

"I guess you think Obama is a "fake" Christian as well?" Yes, and a stealth muslim.

KRT - you are correct sir and we as christian should not do that as we all fall short of the glory of god. Public prayer however was not condemed although Jesus taught that we should pray in private but Jesus himself prayed in public and so I am 100% without a doubt sure that he would not condem it unless it was done so piously as did the pharisees

I actually think or hope maybe that Obama is not as religious as he thinks he needs to be to keep the evangelical hoards from stoning him.

If Athiests dont believe in anything how can it be religous dicrimination?....lol

people that think Obama is a "stealth muslim" are the ones that want to establish a christian version of sharia law in the US

@Keck 1.16

I am opposed to any political who uses their office to promote religion or religious action. The POTUS or any other political using their office to endorse or to ise a proclamation in support of the National Day or Prayer is a violation of the Establishment clause in 2 ways. It promotes Christianity and it is a government endorsement of a religious action.

If the politician in question wants to take part as a private citizen, then that action is protected by the Free Expression clause, but they cannot use their office to promote religion or a religious action such as prayer.

Christians also seem to be ignorant of their own saviors teaching on the matter of praying in public. Matthew 65.-6.6.

The Federal Courts should step in and slap the hands of Perry and those who support him because the US is not now and never has been a Christian country. We may have a Christian dominated population but the government was designed to be very secular. For [proof of my statements read James Madison's essays on religion in "Memorial and Remonstrance Against ReligiousAssessments" and Jefferson's "Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom," and his Letter to the Danbury Baptists. Jefferson so opposed organized religion and Christianity in general that he re-wrote the Christian bible and removed the supernatural and the miracles from it.

You might also want to read Article 11 of the Treaty of the Barbary Pirates that was passed unamiously by Congress and signed by some guy named John Adams.

George Washington was not a Christian and never took the sacraments. Thomas Paines work "The Age of Reason" makes his views of theistic religion very clear.

Please God, Im begging you:

• Protect me from your followers.

There aren't enough atheists in the country to blame them for the country's problems. Give 'em a few more of years, then we can blame the hell out of 'em.

JohnDD is exactly right. How simple minded is it to blame what the majority screws up on the minority?

By the same token, black people can't be blamed for the numerous wars America gets into.

God, protect me from your followers.

The National Day of Prayer (as explained in the article) was presented as a day for ALL people who believe in a deity to pray to whatever deity they believe in. It was not presented by Obama as a day of CHRISTIAN prayer alone. Muslims were to pray to Allah, Jews to Yeshua, Wiccans to the Goddess and Horned God, Native American religions to the Great Spirit etc. It was not limited to CHRISTIAN prayer. What Perry is endorsing IS limited to CHRISTIAN prayer. That is the difference. Obama's National Day of Prayer was INCLUSIVE of ALL religions while Perry's is NOT. Thus, Obama respected the clause that ensures we have freedom of religious choice and Perry is NOT.

i thought you a**holes wanted to go out on your own i'm happy with 49 states bunch of redneck retards take you fake bible and head south.real christians don't act they are

Exactly. His kind are the kind like Khomeni in Iran that are shover's in the face types who preach holier-than-thou's swearing that Atheists are the source of all our ills. What a bunch of BS.

Religion should be practiced in the privacy of a home instead of trying to denigrate others who don't share the same beliefs. That road leads down the same PATH that Bin Laden took. It almost always turns violent.

Eventually these kinds of people end up stringing people up and burning them at the stake like witches!

Salem is alive and well in Texas!

so its abortion is ok

homosexuality is ok

but if you talk about your christian faith your put down

To gsxrinthe9s: Watch your grammar... "it's" (not "its") and "you're" (not

"your").

signed - your agnostic neighbor

No gsx, it's when people like Perry claim that the religion they follow is the only one and all the worlds ills will be answered if we all just pray to the God he follows.

The far Christian right want to do away will all religions except theirs. It's that kind of talk no one should be subject to. Least of all, peoples kids that will influenced to be just as narrow minded and bigoted.

No religion is right, as it all preaches hate of every other religion. If he follows the Bible, he should never have this prayer thing anyways. The Bible states a person should pray alone and not shouting it from the rooftops.

For once Perry is doing something right. Good for him.

thull complained about Christians wanting parades. I'll bet he doesn't complain about gay parades, or pro-abortion parades.

Thull, unless you are from Texas, I fail to see how the Governor of Texas could be shoving anything down your throat since his jurisdiction to shove things down anyone's throat for any reason more or less stops at the Texas border at the present time. Personally, I hope it stays that way and that the Greatest Governor of Texas Since Jesus Christ does not run for President of the United States. I would much rather that He stayed here as our beloved Governor, and it escapes me why He would even want such a demotion. There simply is no higher office to which a person could aspire, than that of Governor of Texas.

so its abortion is ok

Not for me personally, but it's not my business.

homosexuality is ok

Not for me personally, but it's not my business.

but if you talk about your christian faith your put down

Not at all -- as a private citizen -- it's not my business. HOWEVER, the gov used his OFFICE to promote the event. That crosses the Constitutional line.

These words are so beautiful. It is all good, even if you don't believe in God, how can you not see how beautiful these words are.

"While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer. "

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

I think the athiest group should take donations for a bunch of busses and send thousands of muslim americans to the event. Now THAT would be hilarious!!

Beth-440386 so its abortion is ok Not for me personally, but it's not my business. homosexuality is ok Not for me personally, but it's not my business. but if you talk about your christian faith your put down Not at all -- as a private citizen -- it's not my business. HOWEVER, the gov used his OFFICE to promote the event. That crosses the Constitutional line.

Its a prayer event, not the passing of new legislature or forcing a state run religion.

Why dont y'all keep your freedom of speech to yourselves. Be proactive!! Lead by example, if you can refrain from using your freedoms then maybe people will follow suit.

These words are so beautiful. It is all good, even if you don't believe in God, how can you not see how beautiful these words are.

So what's the point? It's a nice song but has nothing to do with the discussion.

Its a prayer event, not the passing of new legislature or forcing a state run religion.

You still don't get it. HE USED HIS POLITICAL OFFICE TO ENDORSE IT. That's the problem. If he had not, no problem.

To the OP - Thull - That statement fits exactly my sentiments towards homosexuals and their "PRIDE" parades. Your choice of words is even accurate "flamboyant" , "consenting adult" , "life choice" , "shoved down the throat"

Well maybe you are actually talking about queers

You must have a lot of bones to pick with Obama then.

Beth-440386

Its a prayer event, not the passing of new legislature or forcing a state run religion.

You still don't get it. HE USED HIS POLITICAL OFFICE TO ENDORSE IT. That's the problem. If he had not, no problem.

If we were all guilty of perception, we would all be in jail.

Beth, what do you think of brewmaster Obama having a brewery in the White House? The first Pres to do so. Our tax dollars at work.

Lucy- A few post's up your singing God Bless America, and giving us the verses, but then you are being disrespectful to our President, Can you say Hypocrite? Have you heard or read about some of these nut bag Preachers that Perry has lined up? I respect all religions, because like Jesus I'm a LIBERAL!!!!!

I am against that prayer breakfast thing too, I KNOW it is totally not what the founders had in mind. There is a sentence in the Constitution that states no religious oath shall be required to hold public office.......we need to honor that. I for one would be happier with an atheist in the White House.

To the OP - Thull - That statement fits exactly my sentiments towards homosexuals and their "PRIDE" parades.

Spud ... in case you didn't get it, Thull's choice of words was entirely intentional. In a posting that deserves the "Posting-of-theDay" award, he's pointing out the hypocrisy of the christian right.

Beth, what do you think of brewmaster Obama having a brewery in the White House? The first Pres to do so. Our tax dollars at work.

Huh? What's that got to do with anything. I'm sure thousands of Americans brew their own beer -- including a few I know. He earns a salary and if we wants to spend a few hundred brewing beer, so what? According to the few news reports about it, he's paying for it himself.

But you asked me what I think? I think it's pretty cool.

Nice try at a red herring.

Beth, what do you think of brewmaster Obama having a brewery in the White House? The first Pres to do so. Our tax dollars at work.

some of the best proof against the lunatic "stealth muslim" claims.

and certainly NOT "your tax dollars at work" when the Obama has even remodeled the oval office using his own money

Here, gsxrinthe9s : You are going to find the next chapter very helpful :

• Speak not evil one of another,brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and JUDGETH HIS BROTHER, SPEAKETH EVIL OF THE LAW, and JUDGETH THE LAW : but if thou judge the law, thou ART NOT A DOER OF THE LAW, BUT A JUDGE. ( James 4:11 )
• There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy : WHO ART THOU THAT JUDGEST ANOTHER ? ( James 5:12 )

My fellow American gsxrinthe9s : WHO ARE YOU ?

To Mister Perry ( For the book of Malachi ) :

• For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. 2:7
• But ye are departed out of the way; ye have CAUSE MANY TO STUMBLE AT THE LAW; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi. 2:8
• Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according AS YE HAVE NOT KEPT MY WAYS, but have been partial in the law ( 2:9 )

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that coneth shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. MALACHI 4:1

Old Jews writing thousands of years ago expressed their ignorance of life so thoroughly, that Christianity should have devolved into extinction. That it didn't is clearly indicative of humankind's rampant and pervasive stupidity.

THULL Perry is allowed the same rights and protections as others and should keep his lifestyle choice to himself and not flaunt it so flamboyantly in everyone's faces. He can practice like the rest in the comfort of his home among consenting adults away from social eyes who do not want to see such a public display shoved down out throats. We're not against them and their life-choice, but to be constantly barraged by their demands for special treatment, parades, and their need to actually be seen in public as normal is getting a bit much.

I feel the same way about what the GAYS are doing.

Actually, I would suspect that the first Presidents to inhabit it also brewed beer in the White House and maybe even fermented wine. This WAS the custom at the time, you know. Obama is just the first MODERN President to brew beer as a hobby using his own money. Other Presidents had hobbies, what is so objectionable to Obama having a microbrewery as a hobby in his own time for his own consumption?

Not being disrespectful to BO, just stating a fact thats all. He brews beer in the white house.

Also, BO is not God.

Not being disrespectful to BO, just stating a fact thats all. He brews beer in the white house.

Also, BO is not God.

Get over yourself Lucy -- you were trying to set off a little firestorm -- a little red herring that was just as much of a non sequitur to this topic as your post on the song. Too bad it didn't work for you ... we don't care if the guy brews beer. After all, George Washington did!

You nicely proved he wasn't a "closet Muslim" however, as they are proscribed from drinking alcohol! :)

And, btw, no one said the president was God -- he's just as fallible as the rest of us --- including you!

Slick Rick, leader of the Texas taliban!

If there was a different version of the National Day of Prayer gathering hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Texas, Rick Perry would probably try to issue an executive order to force the event to shut-down. When Republicans demand freedom to pray in public schools, they are referring *specifically* to Christian prayer. They would be the first people to condemn, oh, say, a Satanist teacher leading his/her kids in a short ritual every morning.

It's hyprocracy at its worst. Christian conservatives want a theocracy, where non-Christians just have to grin and bear it when their own public servants denounce their beliefs.

more2bits

Why do you keep saying Perry is blaming the atheists for the problems in the country. That is not stated anywhere in this article.

You guys don't believe, that is your choice. Stop being so hard on yourselves.

Live and Let Live.

I myself think greed has destroyed this country.

2bits - Impeached? Heck he should be re-elected but wait he just was by the majority of us god loving christians here in Texas if your not one please feel free to speak up and see where it gets you but I can assure you it wont be elected to office

The majority of you "God loving Christians" in Texas would make Jesus weep with your actions, intolerance, and ignorance.

Put the Christ back in Christianity, and remove the intolerant morons that have taken the word of a great man and bent it to serve their greed and hate!

Right as you do? Why are we intolerant? We arent complaining you are and yes Jesus would weep for all of us as we all sin.

Would the majority of Texas Christians be supportive of a Muslim prayer day, are they supportive of gay marriage, or even the right to be gay at all?

These are the reasons why Texas Christians are very unchristian. Do you REALLY think that Jesus would hate Muslims or gays? If you do, you need to read up a bit more on good old JC.

mark, I have no complaint with your gov going to this prayer thing (even though I am not religious). I hope he has a great time doing it. my ONLY complaint is the use of government resources (and money) to promote one religion over another. THAT violates the US Constitution.

mjgst22

Maybe you need to read up a bit more on Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't preach hatred of people, but he did condemn the actions of many people, and warned that their actions would condemn them. As to the subject of being gay consider the words of Jesus.

And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?'" ( Matthew 19:4).

Questions: What did Jesus say about God's creative work? Did he make Adam and Joseph? Did he create male and male, or did he create male and female? According to this passage, what has been God's plan for sexual union (one flesh) since the beginning of time? Was his plan for a male partner to be joined to another male partner, or was it for a husband to be united to his wife? According to this passage, is a man to cleave to his male partner, or to his spouse?

Consider: Since Jesus approved of his Father's plan (i.e., one man, one woman, one flesh,) could we correctly say that Jesus condemned homosexuality?

As to the subject of Muslims: According to the Muslim religion, Jesus was a prophet, but he was in no way God, because only God is God.

According to the Bible, to Christianity, and to Jesus himself, Jesus is the Son of God, is God, has always been and will always be God. Many Christians proclaim God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God said "Let Us make man in our image.", that is to say body, mind, and soul. Consisting of three parts, yet still all the same being, whether God as Father, Son, and Spirit, or humans as body, mind, and soul. Notice it says, "Let Us" not "Let Me" for God is Three yet also One.

Back to whether Jesus would approve of Muslims, Jesus said, "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life. No one comes to the Father except by Me." Again, Muslims do not believe Jesus is God, therefore they not reaching the God that they pray to several times daily, their prayers are falling on deaf ears since they do not pray in the name of Jesus Christ.

We are not to judge or hate people, but we shouldn't sit by quietly and tolerate actions that Jesus himself condemns, for instance your example of gay marriage.

I myself think greed has destroyed this country.

Unrestrained and unregulated capitalism? Weren't we told that greed is good for the nation?

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so very much unlike your Christ"

Mahatma Ghandi

Yep. I live in Texas and got about 2 inches of rain. It is getting dry again though, and we need to pray for rain again.

You dance for rain, you pray for your wealth. Get it straight please.

One dances for rain, one works for wealth, one prays for patience and understanding. Well, that's what I think.

It rained the day before yesterday in Oklahoma, and I don't recall a big public prayer day. If people pray and it doesn't rain, they say they need to pray harder. If they pray and it rains, then apparently they did it right.

If they had good sense, they'd schedule days of prayer just before the forecasters say there is a strong likelihood of rain--then they can get a good statistic showing that praying is connected to rain.

I don't have a problem with Perry having a big prayer meeting, and I think it's fine for the conservative fundamentalist evangelicals to get together if it makes them happy. Statements about his personal belief system are fine (he can "testify" whenever he likes). But, promoting specific religious activity that excludes other religions and promotes just one--especially using his office as governor and promoting the event using the official seal--is wrong.

All you have to do to see that this is wrong is to imagine a governor in a different state using his/her office to promote something that is contrary to your own religion--then you would understand better.

It is fine to encourage general religiousity (as long as those who are non-religious don't feel forced to engage it in unless they are thought to be "non-American"). It is fine to encourage people to be tolerant of their fellow citizens. But, it is against the Constitution for a government employee--on government time, in his capacity as a government employee, and using the monies and endorsement of the government--to promote a specific religion's event.

And, no, it doesn't matter that conservative fundamentalist evangelicals of all stripes are invited--it is still Christian conservative fundamentalist evangelicism (a particular religious view--even if it does have sects).

The issue is not the event--the issue is the governor endorsing it as the governor (rather than as a person of some stature who happens to be a Christian CFE) and using government money/time. It is a way, also, of using government money to endorse his run for president--being that CFE churches are now a money-raising and organizational branch of the Republican party.

I think it is time to end the special tax-exempt status of churches and force them to do the same things as other tax-exempt non-profits if they want tax-exempt status (if non-profits aren't required to give a full accounting of where their money comes from and where it goes--they should be--and so should churches). I think, also, that it is time to do campaign reform so that all people get the same amount of access to the voting public and can't get money from private individuals (and especially not corporations as private individuals).

This isn't really about religion. It is about how Republicans have found that they don't have enough money to campaign against Obama (not even with their millionaire members who can't legally give as much money as they would like) and are having to tap other resources--specifically churches which don't have to report what they are doing as they are tax-exempt. The millionaires are "legally" funneling their money through the churches--this is a fund-raising event for Perry. The people who give money for the "event" are really giving money for Perry's run for president.

Seriously--if people can't see through Perry and his "dang it--can't we get together in public and pray" Southern hokum, they really are dense.

Bean- If our gov won an election as anything but a christian I would be surprised but if he wanted to have a muslim rally fine wityh me but I doubt that he would be re-elected. Also I dont recall anything mentioning that anyone would not be welcome another christian doctrine all are welcome yes we will discuss our beliefs because as we believe our savior instructed us to get out the news but each is free to make their own decisions as long as their beliefs and decisions do not encroach on my way of life. There has been a mosque built near my hometown still standing and no one burns it, pickets it, directs violence towards it and they are free to have all the meeting they want and should anyone interfere they would certsinly have to deal with the law. Yes there are those that talk bad about it because they dont like it but they just as I realize that we are free in this country to practice religion freely without persecution

Bean- Great Post!!!!

Wow...Oldman, you really are an amazingly simple man! Do you REALLY think that it rained because Dr. Hair-gel (aka Perry) asked god to bless you with precipitation. You are what is wrong with this country.

I still have relatives in Texas and they despise Governor Good Hair......honest to goodness that is what they call him down there.

Well kathy they are also welcome to leave or try to vote him out. I wish them luck, well .... not really

If our gov won an election as anything but a christian I would be surprised but if he wanted to have a muslim rally fine wityh me but I doubt that he would be re-elected

This "logic" is typical of those that can't see the blatant constitutional violation of what the Texas governor is doing. The "logic" basically says that as long as the supposed "majority" favor something, it is always OK. This, of course is exactly the same logic that states used to use to defend slavery as well as countless other things that are NOW viewed as abhorrent. The moral here, and see if you can grasp it Mark, is that WRT the separation of our government and religion, what the supposed majority wants or "votes for" is completely irrelevant. The constitution is very clear on this matter and it's only backwards, jerkwater state governments that have trouble with this. Gee, just like with slavery. Funny how some things never change.

There has been a mosque built near my hometown still standing and no one burns it, pickets it, directs violence towards it and they are free to have all the meeting they want and should anyone interfere they would certsinly have to deal with the law

And speaking of irrelevant. I must say, this one is a beaut. Kind of like Al Capone "proving" what a swell guy he was by pointing out how much he helped the poor in his neighborhood (which he actually did do).

mark, you keep missing the point, the problem is with using government resources and authority to promote one religion over another (the use of the government website and seal of Texas). the governer is using the state to promote one religion over another, specifically christianity over others.

that is a violation of the US constitution

Great job equating Christians to a bloodthirsty Soviet dictator. Seriously? On another note, every time I am on a forum on MSN or CNN, I see atheists coming out of the woodwork to attack Christianity, God, Jesus, etc. every time some sort of religious topic is up for discussion. I personally have been called a bigot, Nazi, Taliban, uneducated, narrow-minded, and stupid because of my beliefs and defense of Christianity on various forums. Ten bucks says none of these people calling me such were Christians. Next time atheists call Christians intolerant, maybe they need to look in the mirror.

Mark,

The bible tells us that this will happen and will always happen as satan travels the world in his attempt to take over

I would never equate Christ with Stalin or Hitler, just evangelical Christians. These individuals are among the least Christ like people on the planet.

It was "Turn the other cheek" Not "Load the other chamber" You 2nd amendment, bible thumping morons.

mj why do you lump us all together? I guess that all you screaming liberals are gay, right?

I lump you together, because I do not see any condemnation of this sort of blatant attack on other faiths. I do not see a large proportion of Evangelicals saying "Hey guys, it is these peoples right to love who they want." Or, "Hey, people, Jesus would have wanted us to be tolerant of other faiths and beliefs, even if they believe in nothing at all"

Instead all I see is blind adoration for religious and political leaders who use Jesus to spread fear, hate, aggression and intolerance, and that is DISGUSTING!

No better than the Muslims who use Mohammad and Allah to spread hate against the west.

mjgst22,

There is a MAJOR difference between telling people that I think that some of what they do is sinful and hating them for doing it. I don't hate people because they sin for no one is perfect and everyone sins, myself definitely included. I think being homosexual is a sin but I still have compassion for them, same with other people of other faiths. I know Jesus is happy with me for wanting others to know his word and not just sit around and let everyone just keep sinning. I'm sorry that some people don't want to hear what I'm saying but I'm not going to stop speaking his word.

But yes there are those who still don't understand the differences in somethings and they do hatefully speak towards people, for which I am sorry for, but don't hate me for it.

mjgst22,

Jesus also had compassion on people in their weaknesses, illnesses, afflictions. He did not practice tolerance, there is a difference. He said that we are to love one another, not just tolerate one another and certainly not tolerate/accept sin. That would be like saying 'I hate you, but I'm going to put up with your b/s because I don't really care about you or it in the end.' That is not the Jesus I am growing to know.

I totally do personally, and it is really just as scary (or more so since at first glance it is touted as Christian love and some might not see the real agendas) as any other situation where government resources are used to promote one religious belief system in other countries they love to complain about. The people he associates with right now and publicly with no shame are so angry and bizarre (seriously we can't even understand half of the rants they make since they are full of rantings just like I have seen in heavily medicated people and full of nonsense) are some really scary people.

The fact that mainstream politicians actually are proud to associate with these people is scary, and the other fact that they all seem to believe that it is fine to shove the bizarre beliefs down everyone else's throat using their power as elected officials is the scariest of all. He has authority to do some horrible things and would get more as president. Wonder what they would do if a governor decided to do this exact same thing using his/her office to announce an Islam gathering like this or an atheist day?

Ram- Vote him out that is what we would do, simple. If you dont like it vote him out but I doubt you are from Texas number one and number two I doubt you will get him voted out.

Well, I personally have been trying to get him out for the past two terms, but you have a better chance of expecting the guy working the checkout at HEB here to habla the English than for that to ever happen.

But you know, whatever. Democracy isn't perfect.

Is this event going to be a Pay-for-view extravaganza? This gathering of the righteous would sit enthralled while witches are hanged to start the event. Followed by the beheading of women, who have had an abortion, Then the crucifixion of the homosexuals. Then the requisite NASCAR race. WWW exhibition. Followed by the burning of witches(marshmallow roasting encouraged), all the while the crowd will be speaking in tongues and throwing money at the feet of Gov. Perry. A great time should be had by all! I think I'll skip TV that day and read a book.

Actually the founding fathers wrote about keeping government out of religion not vice versa

Actually the founding fathers wrote about keeping government out of religion not vice versa

No, they wrote about both and intended to keep religion and the government separate from each other so neither can influence the other. It's called the "separation of church and state."

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?")

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

Great collection of quotes, Cat. Pretty much makes the point!

Yeah they are, but it does no good when your are talking to people who do not care what the facts are.

Hank dont spout what you dont know Jesus prayed in public as well

Mark - Maybe that's why he was crucified, along with overturning the money changers table(definitely anti-business) and admitting to Pilate question, that he was god(blasphemy).

Well, that is true too.

Then there's that!

Now we are getting to the real point the Texas jealousy thing I was wondering when it would actually come out

Jealous of what? You are right, I wish I was ignorant, intolerant, and just plain unchristian. Texas even tried to rewrite the history textbooks last year. They want to spread their ignorance like a El Paso hooker spreading herpes.

My my what hatred you spew. I sr am neither ignorant, intolerant but I am not the best christian but with the help of christ i try to get better. My beliefs are no more ignorant than yours sir.

Here it comes! 'My state is better than your state.'

As a Texan, I live for this debate.

Exhibit 1: We are the only state protected by Chuck Norris.

I rest my case.

I have something interesting. Texas elementary school textbooks on history written a hundred years ago. Some of the things school boards believed and wrote into scholastic curriculum is quite intellectually stunning. And it's hard to believe that none of them was Christian at that time.

Mark - In response to your post 13.5, don't put your query to a vote.

I have nothing against the people from the great state of Texas, just their leaders (ok, some of the people are morons, but you can find them anywhere. Just with the size of Texas, there is a lot more of them).

I think it great need more of it!!!

I am from Texas but had to move away to realize how silly we looked to the rest of the country........and now when I go back I just laugh and wonder if behaved that rudely when I lived there.

No, he's not a moron, he's fixing to pass the hat, or the collection plate or whatever. It will end up being used for fundraising in pious but poor Texas.

Evil? Maybe. Traditional in Texas? Certainly in parts.

There's nothing stopping you from leaving Texas

Well said DLB - Marcy if your not happy well... bye

I wish Texass would leave the US.

Fine with 49

Why does no one like us.

I don't say mean things about your state. ;___;

Probably because Texans fill up every campground and ski resort in NM and CO just about year round. If Texas is so great, why won't they go home?

But don't feel to bad, they say the same thing about Californians kin AZ and Nevada.

Oh, I think every state has something like that. We have Winter Texans here.

Clearly they didn't like freezing their arses off in their lesser home states.

Texas: The only state you can stand in mud up to your knees with dust blowing in your face.

You must have been stationed At Fort Bliss, what a misnomer.

My great-grandmother told me that line when she was 103 and I told her I was driving to Austin. She told me to avoid Texas, Mississippi, and Alabama at all costs and she was very wise.

The worst part is he answers them - all 27 of them!

I forgot to mention the 27 are demons. My bad!

Unfortunetly that is not enough for them.......they would like to make being a non believer a crime punished by oh...maybe death. Sounds like some other religions we know.

Seriously, they call themselves persecuted because their entire belief system TELLS them they will be. When in reality all that is happening is the removal of their own special privileges or the curtailment of their ability to force their beliefs on to others.

If this guy wants to know what real persecution is he should go live in Iran for a few years and be openly Christian. Because I dont think the word persecution means what he thinks it means

Yes Toasty its called Majority will the will of the people the majority rules- remember?

No such thing, nowhere do the founders talk about the will of the majority, it does however talk about the tyrany of the majority.

Not in a liberal democracy, Mark.

Wow, Mark Brantley, your obnoxiousness is exactly what turns so many people off from Christianity... keep it up.

That is a good thought and just what the founders ordered....Perry is about as christian as the rest of the bunch he hangs with........just currying favor with the wing nuts.

And your thoughts are spot-on. Thanks for sharing.

Very well said!

Ramen!! best comment ever!! Its our diversity that makes our nation so great!

Very well said. As as PROOF that the founders agree ... Just look at what is NOT in the Constitution. God.

In fact, the only mentions of religion are those that are SPECIFICALLY designed to keep religion out of government -- The Establishment Clause and the Religion Test Clause.

And before I'm bashed as "anti-Christian" there are many, many Christians out there who ALSO believe in separation of church and state because it gives THEM the freedom to believe and live as they wish.

Bravo and well said!

ok Boys and girls from the Texas Constitution-

Article 1, Section 6:
All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

BJ - Those are good thoughts. I believe in religious freedom. I disagree
with Gov. Perry's view of the intolerance. Of course I disagree with most
everything the man represents so I guess that's not that big of a deal.

There is tremendous religious tolerance in this country, at least towards
Judeo-Christian religions. His definition of intolerance is that the evangelist
movement doesn't contol our lives. I'm a non-believer. Not an atheist; I don't say there isn't any possibility of something existing. Not an agnostic because I think that's sort of a cowardly way of saying you're a non-believer.
Semantics, of course. I do not believe in any religion I've ever been exposed to. If there is something greater out there, I think it is completely beyond our ability to comprehend and religion is folklore to tell at night, something to help us with the fact of our mortality, and a terrific way to control large groups of people.

I am a pretty kind, principled human being. I follow the golden rule to the
best of my ability. And anytime a religious person finds out I don't believe,
they tell me how wrong I am. That's intolerance. An aetheist, agnostic,
whatever, could never be elected to major office in this country, no matter
their qualificiations. All of our politicians have to pretend to be pious while
most of them are raping the country. It's OK as long as you end the speech with "God bless America".

That's intolerance.

Mr Mark, hate to burst your bubble but the Constitution of the United States ALWAYS trumps the states. ALWAYS.

Bravo Mark!

Do you think so..........oh man that would be a hoot.

If he gets their nod, he'll be stuck in mud up to his a-hole! Since he is one, its kinda of ironic, don't you think.

Ed-1883977

Where does the article say he sanctions a state run churcH?

He's using his office as governor, including the public images like the gubernatorial seal, to advertise an event for a specific religion. If he was just *attending* a private function, that would be different. But his statements seem to be implying that non-Christians are ruining the country (which is a laugh. Non-Christians don't have enough power to ruin the country. There is ONE atheist congressmen, and he's getting on in years).

Yeah, I like the execution thing you pointed out, Ed. In his first five years as governor, there have been over 200 executions. I don't think Jesus was all that into capital punishment...not like he actually gives a damn what Jesus would have thought.

The constitution states that the government can not tamper or restrict religion, it does not prevent members of government from being religious.

Actually, the constitution states that the Federal Government can not ESTABLISH a (state) religion like the church of England. It also says you have the freedom to worship God in your chosen faith.

It DOESN'T say you should keep from mentioning Christmas in schools while putting in a special prayer room for Muslims, though. That is the Politically Correct crowd imagining that.

Many here apparently have never read the constitution or traveled to Washington DC to see references to God carved a foot deep in the buildings or read the Lincoln speeches inside the Lincoln monument. America was actually founded as a Christian nation. It's on the money. Christians decided to be big about religious freedom and now it is twisted to favor certain religions (or lack of) and punish the vast majority.

Nice. Sounds like YOU are restricting the free practice of religion. Not Perry.

Texas Constitution

Article 1, Section 6: All men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences.

No state Constitution comes before the United States Constitution.....part of statehood. Feds trump always.

The constitution states that the government can not tamper or restrict religion, it does not prevent members of government from being religious.

There's a difference between being religious, and using your religion towards public policy or expecting government endorsement of your religion.

America was actually founded as a Christian nation.

Wrong! Show me one piece of valid, original documentation which supports that claim! BEcause I can tell you right now America was NEVER founded as a christian nation. I defy you to prove otherwise!

It's on the money.

Which wasn't originally there and was added as a result of pressure from religious groups. Plus, it's also unconstitutional!

Christians decided to be big about religious freedom and now it is twisted to favor certain religions (or lack of) and punish the vast majority.

The Founding Fathers were big on religious freedom. Christianity played no part in that or in the Constitution.

Texas Constitution

Does not override the US Constitution and otherwise seems to collaborate with the 1st Amendment.

Steve the Dog Man - Xmas wasn't even celebrated in this country in the beginning. Christianity was all about Easter and the resurrection of Christ. Not really sure when Xmas came into its own here but think about it, no one has any idea of the date of Christ's birth, the holiday as celebrated in our country is just one big secular spending binge, am I right! As to Muslims having a special prayer room, how does that impinge upon the rights on Christians, don't only Muslims go to the room. As for Xmas celebrations in school, that would be forced on everyone, right. Now your remark about money, I seem to recollect that Christ said, "Render unto Cesare the things that are Cesar's and unto God the things that are Gods, right! I don't think God cares one way or the other if he's on our or any ones money for that matter. In fact the mention of God on our money didn't come about until the Eisenhower admin., as a call to arms against godless Communism. The penny was the first coin minted in our nation and on it was stamped "Mind your own business". If only everyone would live by that "golden rule". Our nation may well have been founded by Christians but those wise men precluded making it a state religion, that's what freedom of religion is all about, right or wrong.

If you atheists don't like what he is doing you don't have to attend. Otherwise keep your mouth shut. We Christians think it is about time that God is part of the country again. It should be back in the schools also. It is time that the 86% of us stand up and tell the 14% that we have had enough of their crap and to sit down, shut up or move to a different country.

Sorry, you can't have your god as part of the government of this country.....no,no, no.

We Christians think it is about time that God is part of the country again.

Then you're in the wrong country.

It should be back in the schools also.

Sure, if you can get around the constitutional issue.

It is time that the 86% of us stand up and tell the 14% that we have had enough of their crap and to sit down, shut up or move to a different country.

Too bad. The majority does not rule over the minority and your personal desires are meaningless in light of constitutional guidelines.

Phyl, I was going to ignore your post (it reeks of ignorance), but what the hell, I have 5 minutes to spare.

Atheists are tax-paying citizens too! We have just as much right to protest anytime our governor chooses to ignore our Constitution. So YOU keep your mouth shut.

And just because you Christians are the majority in MY country, does not give you the right to trample on everyone else's rights and demand that they move to different country. By that logic, white people have the "right" to trample on the rights of blacks and Hispanics. Idiot.

If you want religion to be taught in your child's school, send them to a private religious school. Religious indoctrination does not belong in our public schools.

but we have to teach about gays in our history

Who cares if religion is taught in schools here. It's not like they could get any worse.

That's just the painful truth.

It's not like they could get any worse.

Kansas

No, I think its officially, Mississippi, has been for a long time.

he is gay

cpm - If he is, there is nothing wrong with that if Michelle is OK with it. I'd like to be the fly on their wall, if that is true.

I agree nothing wrong with that lifestyle.

More likely he just got better at hiding them.

Oh my gosh, can the Republicans possibly be more open to total implosion.

HMMMM. Lets see. Is he

"making a law respecting an establishment of religion. NO

Prohibiting the free exercise thereof. NO

Abridging the freedom of speech, the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. NO

CLEARLY. The only violation is your right think.

Please read the constitution of the USA nowhere does it say that anyone in Gov. service cannot go to church or any religious function. Try not to be such a feckless intellectual !

You are just wrong, he cannot invoke his invisible god as his chief of staff.

No KS, you are wrong. And uneducated.

Of the 56 signers of the US Declaration of Independence, all but two we're Christian. 27 of the signers were graduates of the seminary.

Separation of church and state is meant to prevent any one church from gaining power over the govt. It was never meant to remove God from govt.

Other wise it would be referred to as, "Separation of religion and state".

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor--and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me “to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.”

US President George Washington

Separation of church and state is meant to prevent any one church from gaining power over the govt. It was never meant to remove God from govt.

Other wise it would be referred to as, "Separation of religion and state".

I'm sorry, but can you repeat that? It sounds like you just completely contradicted yourself and demonstrate a clear lack of understanding regarding separation.

US President George Washington

A mere personal expression of faith. Otherwise has no bearing on our nation, government, or laws.

Of the 56 signers of the US Declaration of Independence, all but two we're Christian. 27 of the signers were graduates of the seminary.

Is that supposed to mean something?

gordy327

I'm sorry, but can you repeat that? It sounds like you just completely contradicted yourself and demonstrate a clear lack of understanding regarding separation.

Try reading it more slowly.

A mere personal expression of faith. Otherwise has no bearing on our nation, government, or laws.

Actually this speech was given while carrying out the duties of office. It is the one President Washington gave when he created the first "Thanksgiving Day" of our new nation. Try reading a history book every now and again.

Is that supposed to mean something?

What it does, is demonstrate something. But if your to dim witted to figure out just what that is, oh well.

Try reading it more slowly.

I have and it still doesn't change the fact that your take on separation is erroneous. Separation means neither the government or the church can influence or interfere with the other. Nor can a person in a political office make his beliefs public policy. That individual can have his religious preference, but he cannot expect the government to endorse or prohibit that belief in any way.

Actually this speech was given while carrying out the duties of office. It is the one President Washington gave when he created the first "Thanksgiving Day" of our new nation

Irrelevant. My statement still stands.

What it does, is demonstrate something. But if your to dim witted to figure out just what that is, oh well.

What's clearly demonstrated here is that you need to resort to ad hom attacks because you are wrong and clearly in over your head here and you know it!

As long as he/she doesn't do something like this in the name of the govt. or use tax-payer money, there's nothing wrong with a political leader calling for prayer anymore than there is anyone else doing it. No one is twisting any arms here..we're all free to respond to this as we see fit, including ignoring it all together; and certainly, some people are using their protected freedom to blast Gov. Perry's actions on this website...that is their right.

Rick Perry is not using his authority to establish a religion or prohibit(ing) the free exercise thereof as stated in the first amendment, therefore his actions do not threaten me or anyone else. If he ever tries use the law to mandate religious practices or prohibit them, then we'll have something to worry about.

Rick Perry is not using his authority to establish a religion or prohibit(ing) the free exercise thereof as stated in the first amendment, therefore his actions do not threaten me or anyone else.

The other caveat to that is that he cannot use his position to push his particular religious beliefs into the government or law, or otherwise be made public policy. Otherwise, you are correct.

If he ever tries use the law to mandate religious practices or prohibit them, then we'll have something to worry about.

Agreed!

The other caveat to that is that he cannot use his position to push his particular religious beliefs into the government or law, or otherwise be made public policy.

True. I guess I assumed that such an action was effectively part of establishing a religion, but I can see where you're distinguishing the detail.

I guess I assumed that such an action was effectively part of establishing a religion, but I can see where you're distinguishing the detail.

You'd be surprised at how often I see people who either cannot or do not make such a distinction.

I seem to recall Abraham Lincoln started by declaration "Thanksgiving Day".

gordy327

You seem to prescribe to Adolf Hitler's tactic of, "If your going to lie, make it a big one and tell it often".
Unfortunately for you, most Americans are to educated to be fooled by your rambling.
Fact; God is and shall always be a part of the United states Govt. You can try and deny this but you will be wasting your time. The wise follow truth, not fashion or trend.
I find it very sad that somehow you have been led to such a warped and demented perception of this Nation's history in regards to the Almighty.
You are in my prayers.

Actually Original, that has been the tactic of the "religious" for ages now.

OM... epic fail

God is a permenantly woven part of the founding, creating, and running of the US govt.

just like allah is a part of the iranian government...

superstition rules over reason.

, "If your going to lie, make it a big one and tell it often".

followed by:

God is a permenantly woven part of the founding, creating, and running of the US govt

you make your point, LOL

now which god were you referring to? there are a whole bunch of them

danwill

Your post has achieved nothing. You took a hand full of my comments and made a lame attempt to spin them in to looking like nonsense. The result being you making nonsense of your self.

In 100 years you will be gone, (to a very bad place), and God will still be here.

now which god were you referring to? there are a whole bunch of them

The one and only God you poor lost soul.

Danwill, why are you trying to convert us to Atheism, over the Internet? Isn't that why over-expensive billboards are there for?

OM --- still --- epic fail

socialist why are others trying to convert people to Christianity on a message board? It's all bull!

ModerateINMassachusetts

Convert? No. You have all the right in the world to live in darkness and ignorence.
Just don't ask me to join you.
All I'm donig is stating fact and living my faith. While you on the other hand live for nothing but your short life.
You are in my prayers.

You're not stating fact, just because you believe it doesn't make it so.

I don't want to be in your prayers. I pray to my own God and I don't want you to get in the way. Leave me out of your delusions, I'll take care of my own soul and if you're nice for a couple of days - I may even put in a good word for you.

How am I trying to convert others, you liberal.

Did I mention you by name? No. Therefore I can only assume paranoia.

Also neither the terms liberal or conservative are offensive to me and I'm called both depending on a person's political position... if they're an extremist. Your comment states you are either a severe right neo-con or a religious extremist.

Thank you for summing yourself up so succinctly and removing all the guesswork.

In 100 years you will be gone, (to a very bad place), and God will still be here

nope, I'll be as gone as I was before I was born, as will you.

wishfully praying for immortality doesn't make it any more likely. you are free to try, but don't try to force your wishful thinking into regulating my beliefs, which is exactly what the radical far right is trying to do now.

I don't believe in gods or devils, angels or demons, fairies or trolls. all fantasies dreamed up by people trying to explain what they didn't understand

I have no problem with you living your life by the rules supposedly put down by your "imaginary friend", some of those rules are good rules indeed, the best is "treat others as you would have yourself be treated" unfortunately , I see very little of that by most of the political far-right, so-called "christains" (CINOs). the only ones that I actually have much respect for would be Amish and most of the Mennonite branches. truly "pro-life" (instead of picking and choosing whatever they happen to find convenient to push their bloodlust).

I find it ridiculous that the far, political "christian" right blame "darwinism" for all the ills of the world, and then turn right around and declare that the most viciously darwinian, dog-eat-dog, winner-take-all version of wild and utterly unregulated capitalism is "gods way", and has absolutely no connection with the decay that is taking place in this country.

most (not all) of the far , p[olitical right are a bunch of bloodthirsty, hypocritical psychotics that are living a life of fear and determined to push everyone into their mold because they are afraid that if they don't their imaginary friend might be mad at them.

in other words, I am perfectly happy letting you live your life as you think god wants you to, but don't try to make me live my life as you think god wants you to want me to.

ModerateINMassachusetts

I will pray for you as much I want and as long as I think you need prayer.
And do you know what you can do about this FACT? Nothing, zip, zero.
You are not in charge ModINMas. God is. and there is nothing you can do about that fact either. The sooner you learn that God runs the show and not you, the sooner you will find peace.

danwill You are also in my prayers, (which you can do nothing about). you should take the same advise I just gave ModINMas. Of course, thats ups to you.

pray all you want, i'm not going to try to stop you. it's a well-meaning , if misguided attempt to save something that doesn't exist.

the one thing that really irks me though is the attitude from some idiot "christians" that we can't ruin the planet, or that it is "all part of the plan".

that IS truly delusional and UTTERLY IRRESPONSIBLE thinking.

those Christians that believe that we should be "Stewards of the Earth" are excluded, but some think that they have a blank check to destroy everything to make a buck because their "big daddy in the sky" is "going to fly down and make everything better" or even worse "we can't possibly destroy gods creation". .

utterly deranged thought processes going on there since the clear evidence is absolutely showing that we are ruining the entire planet.

it has happened multiple times through history that civilizations have fallen due to their mismanagement of the environment, and every time, the people prayed to their god or gods and nothing saved them. if we keep it up, the same will happen to us, no matter how much you pray. what ever happened to "god helps those that help themselves" too many babble useless phrases about "personal responsibility" but it is hollow nonsense because you don't believe that there is any such thing as personal responsibility, you have the ultimate passing of the buck

sorry but you are just another example of the very same muddy and muffle-brained thought processes.

my world-view is based on reality, not wishful thinking and fantasy

i'm not going to try to stop you

Well gee that's a relief.

As for the rest of you rant... I mean post. Your just to far out in left field.

I'm not quiet sure how you came to the conclusion that Christians are the destroyers of the earth, but some how you did.

If people are ruining the earth? Blame the people. Not God

Sorry but that fantasy thing you mentioned? You own that.

I will pray more dilligently for you.

OM who cares what you do, seriously. Your attitude is arrogant, your facts are skewed and tainted by desire vs. truth and you have no more insight into God than the average garden slug. So go ahead spend all day praying for aliases of people on a message board, I'm sure God will be so impressed (insert theatrical eye roll). We all have power, it's called freewill. You are exercising yours by praying over a name on a computer screen. I exercise mine with critical thinking. I'm betting God thinks I'm putting my gifts to far greater use than you.

Oh btw... God really does hate arrogance so you may want to pull back a bit on that holier than thou superiority complex you've got going there.

"OM who cares what you do, seriously."

You seem to have put alot of concern in that qutoe. Just saying, felt like saying it.

ok, do you feel better now? I hope so because it was such a weak comment unless you got a little charge out of it, it was a sad waste of time.

Sorry but that fantasy thing you mentioned? You own that.

I'm not the one that thinks magic is real.

"I hope so because it was such a weak comment"

Yet, you took it so hard.

No, I took it as the sad little comment it was. Try harder gs now you're just making stuff up, this is getting boring.

Oh... and gs aren't you getting tired of being the only one "liking" your posts? Seriously do you think it'll start an onslaught of approval if you keep approving your own drivel?

"Try harder gs now you're just making stuff up, this is getting boring."

Then wipe your crying eyes and leave, nobody here announced that they want you here.

ooohhh, tough guy

ROFLMAO

This thread mirrors good socialist's journey through life - from grasping at straws to boring to pathetic. LOL

ModerateINMassachusetts

OM who cares what you do, seriously.

You do.

I'm betting God thinks I'm putting my gifts to far greater use than you.

You actually think you know what God is thinking, yet you say I'M arrogant??

Hey ModMass, don't like me? That's your issue pal. I will continue to pray for you and anyone else I want. As for your silly little insults, they will do nothing but make me pity you more.
P.S. your still not in charge.

This thread mirrors ModerateINMassachusetts' journey through life. He is scared of people, paranoid, so he trys to insult them to cover his fear.

OM, guess I really got under your skin on that last post to you. Sorry buddy but the truth hurts, doesn't it.

GS for heaven's sake get your own schtick. Copying someone's post almost word for word makes you look, well pathetic. And no, this 47 year old WOMAN your acting like a tool to isn't paranoid or in the least bit intimidated by you or anyone else. And how pathetic could you possibly be to grasp at such inane straws to try to make you feel even a little tiny bit better about your failure of a life. Furthermore, you're the most insulting person on this board therefore by your logic, the most paranoid and terrified. Is that about right?

mac, you can claim your invisible friend is in controll all you want, it still doesn't make it so. some people take meds for such delusions

If people are ruining the earth? Blame the people. Not God

of course it's the fault of people how can you blame something that doesn't exist?

I blame people for their deranged belief that a magic man is going to pop up and fix their mistakes instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. "god" is the ultimate way of shirking responsibility for your own actions

Wrong. Moderate, you nothing more than a hypocrite, as you are the most insulting person here, not me. You and your blind supporter(s) are quite the bunch. You are a snot-nosed little kid, who cannot stand being stood up against, right in the ace, so you attempt to use "logic" and a good diction to have a shot at trying to look like some wise owl. In reality, you are not wise a bit, or "smart" or "logical", just a little punk who cannot stand resistence. I'm only being insultive to see if you like your own medicine, flammatory speech. Am I right or wrong?

gs, do you even believe the drivel you type or are you hoping if you rant enough someone else will?

Oh and a couple of suggestions, proofread, spell check, insultive isn't a word and I believe you were looking for the word "inflammatory". We'll just ignore the you instead of your and diction is the proper pronunciation of words not proper grammar.

Now to correct you on the content. I'm 47 and haven't been a kid for a long time and I never was a punk. If I couldn't stand confrontation I wouldn't be here, see this is where your lack of logical reasoning really hurts you. I am intelligent but let me guess you just hate them there edjamacated elittist tipes. Owls aren't wise, look it up. You're incredibly insulting and have been from your first post. You really have issues with self evaluation and editing.

You are a snot-nosed little kid, who cannot stand being stood up against, right in the ace, so you attempt to use "logic" and a good diction to have a shot at trying to look like some wise owl. In reality, you are not wise a bit, or "smart" or "logical", just a little punk who cannot stand resistence

projecting, are you?

Owls aren't wise? I am incredibly insulting? Where are you taking this tomfoolery from? The Owl part was a figure of speech, are you THAT dimwitted?

And unless you stop insulting, I won't, I'm simply giving you an example of your ridiculous and whiny behavior. Plus, who cares if I had a few grammar mistakes, are you some sort of Grammar Nazi or something?

Besides, if you would go up your page, you'd see you started off with saying that I'm "converting people" and "bull", you immature hypocrite.

I see that try to block out parts of the story that don't go to your liking.

"We'll just ignore the you instead of your"

Isn't it suppose to be : We'll just ignore the "you" instead of "your"

You sir, are not worth my time, arguing with you is like trying to argue with a brick wall. You fail you answer my questions, and resort to my mistakes as arguments to see if you can backfire me. You also fail to acknowledge how you are insulting me and others, and then you rush to make a reply when I make an insult towards you. You are nothing, like I said, but a hypocrite, somebody that sees the better only in themselves in an argument, and forgets their own actions, and focus's on others. Isn't that right?

gs, what are you doing? What is your motivation for this? What do you think is going to happen?

You're not hurting my feelings, I think you're a funny (and not in that isn't he amusing nice way) little man and beneath me. Do you think if you win the battle of the insults your life will be a little less worthless? What is your point with all this foolishness? You are the King of insults but obviously have a very thin skin because you keep believing you're the one being picked on.

I can't respond to anything you wrote in your last post because all I read was the first sentence. Your comments keep getting more and more out there and I'm starting to feel sorry for you, which is never good in a debate. I'm sorry this means so much to you and you've gone so far off the deep-end. You sound rattled, enraged and bordering on unbalanced and I apologize for my part in that, I should have seen the signs earlier. My only helpful suggestion is for you to stay off the internet because you're woefully unequipped. I won't be back because it's now come to the point where responding to you is shameful and a personal embarrassment.

You will have the last word and I hope in some way that will make you feel better about yourself.

I have seen many hypocritical statements in your last post, but I will not attack you. I see that you still refuse to see your hypocriscy, so you use an excuse of me being "weak" as a chance to back out, knowing you are losing. Give it up already, maybe you'd feel better and you'd quit hiding your insecurity behind agressivness if only you'd realize what we've all been telling you.

You fail you answer my questions

what questions?, everything that you have posted has been an attack.

the only "question" was directed towards me and that was:

Danwill, why are you trying to convert us to Atheism, over the Internet? Isn't that why over-expensive billboards are there for?

I'm not trying to convert anyone, I am trying to keep evangelists from using my government as a platform for conversion.

beyond that I couldn't care less who or what you worship, this is supposedly a free country, but not if the evangelists have their way.

Hi guys,

I prayed for you today.

and the response was?

danwill

If you want to know the response, ask God, not me.

so,the answer is "no response"...

danwill

Because you are deaf you conclude sound does not exist.
How very sad.

mac, which is the sadder case?

the one who can't hear, or the one that hears that which isn't there?

btw, look up the new apostolic reformation , (of which perry and palin are certainly both part of. bachmann, probably, but not definitely)

faith healers, believers in demons, exorcists, militant, and determined to take absolute control of all aspects of our lives "in the name of god". a very dangerous group and totally against any kind of reasoned thought.

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/newapostolic.html

Again, you say it isn't there because YOU can't hear it. Yet millions of others have, and do every day.

As for the political double spin to denounce God? I'll pass.

God Bless.

actually, that was to denounce Perry and the deranged control freak cult that he is a member of(the subject of the actual thread), in their own words, they are seeking DOMINION. they claim to be working for god, but I believe even the bible warns against such things surely there is a phrase about false prophets?, and these are already calling themselves apostles. they are far too interested in power. without any supernatural overtones, they truly do want to restablish the church over all things, including government. they want to return us to the days before the "age of enlightenment" which their leaders have decried as taking too much power from the church, the same age of enlightenment that led to our own founding fathers.

IMO, the Amish and the various Mennonite have got the teachings right, not exclusively, but their example is the best one that I have seen. and notice how they are not interested in exerting POWER and DOMINION over others?

as to god, the possibility exists, but I have seen no evidence one way or the other, but I strongly expect that such a being would be utterly unlike anything that any human has even imagined, much less written of.

without any supernatural overtones, they truly do want to restablish the church over all things, including government. they want to return us to the days before the "age of enlightenment" which their leaders have decried as taking too much power from the church, the same age of enlightenment that led to our own founding fathers

should have been a seperate paragraph,