Republicans are all douchebags.

They will go against ANYTHING Obama does or says...even if it's something they like...just to try to belittle the President.

Obama - "The time for putting 'party' first is over," he added. "It’s time to step up and show the leadership the American people expect."

As he continues to refuse to offer a proposal, and continues his partisan attacks on the Republicans.

Who's responsible for the Budget Deficits and the Debt?

While it's tempting to blame the President for Budget Deficits, it's actually the responsibility of Congress to pass a spending budget, which establishes the amount of the Deficit each year and any required borrowings on the Debt. So what does the record show, based on who controlled Congress over the last 30 years;

DEFICITS ($7.304 Trillion)

Total Deficits when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $5.022 Trillion.
Total Deficits when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $1.219 Trillion.
Total Deficits when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.063 Trillion.

NEW DEBT ($12.654Trillion = 93.3% of all the Debt in our History) (a)

Total New Debt when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $7.623 Trillion.
Total New Debt when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $3.260 Trillion.
Total New Debt when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.771 Trillion.

Spin it all you want, but these are the FACTS

(a) – Contrary to popular belief, the National Debt increases far more than the Deficits for each year.

Sources - Democrats controlled Congress from 1987 – 1994, and from 2007 – 2010. Republicans controlled Congress from 1995 – 2000, and from 2003 – 2006. There was a split Congress from 1980 – 1986 and for 2001 & 2002. The government site to verify National Debt increases is;

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

The government site to verify the Deficits for each year is;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

I'll let the facts speak for themselves as to which Party is more fiscally responsible.

The Tea Party is this nation's only hope. We need less government, less spending, and a balanced budget amendment. Cut spending now. CUT, CUT, CUT. No more taxes. We pay too much tax already.

We must, absolutely must stop spending our kids and grand kids money. We are running up huge bills that we will never pay back or even be able to pay back. We are borrowing and spending money we don't have. We will then retire or die and leave the bill to our kids and grandkids to pay. We ought to be ashamed. How selfish. How irresponsible. How shameful. Are we that self-centered and selfish? I hope not. Can other folks not see this as an evil that must be corrected?

So, who's going to cut spending? When are they going to do it? The Republicans and Democrats don't have the guts to do it. Makes too many people mad. But how stupid do you have to be to spend money you don't have, year after year after year? The answer is obvious. Stop spending now. Is that cruel? Is that unkind? Is that uncaring? Is that unfeeling? No, it's just realistic, solid financial advice, it's just common sense.

Here's the funny thing about the tea party. It exists only in the minds of rational, responsible taxpayers, who have been digging into their pocket for years to pay for this stupidness. And guess what, the tea party is not afraid. It doesn't have a national candidate. All of its candidates are all local. Liberals from states like California and New York (states that are basically bankrupt) cannot "vote out" South Carolina, Oklahoma and Iowa tea party candidates! Pretty amazing and the liberals just don't know how to handle it. The tea party folks are truly a force to be reckoned with, my friends, a force to be reckoned with indeed.

its pretty clear Boner and his cronies want to ruin America on Obama's watch, and it's the only thing you can say they're doing a damn good job at. the rest of the world is laughing at you and your immature, incompetent politicians

Papa G, since Obama nd the Democrats got us into this mess, how could Boehner be trying to ruin America. Ruining our great nation is the business of the Democrats. RINO Republicans like Bush have let them get away with it for too long.

Omama = The Peter Principle in action. (a)

(a) - For those who don't remember the Peter Principle, it's that a person tends to rise through an organization to their level of incompetence. In other words, "he's in over his head", and is desperately treading water. Having Nancy Pelosi make all of his legislative decisions in his first 2 years (and screwing up the economy) was certainly a tell-tale sign.

The teaparty stands for nothing but the collapse of the USA.

Roy, It's not too late to see a Democrat challenge to Obama. Obama is clearly not qualified to run for President. Easily the worst President in modern times, and possibly ever.

"Never, never has there been an intentional disaster perpetrated by the very people who were sent here to be the caretakers of this country"

the broad that said this is exactly right ...and she is refering to the Senate Demolosers that shirked their Constitutional duties and have not passed the budget that they were supposed to have done back in October of 2010...they would have seen then what needed to be done , the liberal lemmings of this nation have been breathing Reid and Pelosi and Obama fart gas for so long that they will never recover from it...oh well , thinning the hurd never hurts

Here's the proposal, Roy Wilson. Don't you read a paper, at least?

This is from the NYT, but it's in other places also. "In July, President Obama pushed for a sweeping $4 trillion deficit-reduction deal that would include reductions in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid as well as changes to plug tax loopholes. The House Republican leader, Speaker John A. Boehner, expressed interest, but quickly backtracked in the face of protests from conservatives opposed to tax increases.

As the drive for a deficit deal slowed, it became clear that disagreements were less over dollars and cents than a broader clash between the two parties over the size and role of government. There is also a divide between older Republicans, who remember the budget showdowns of the 1990s in which they were outmaneuvered by President Bill Clinton, and a younger, more absolutist wing of the party."

BTW, MUCH bigger cuts that the repubs wanted.

Shiela, you obviously have no clue what the Tea Party is all about.

ROY why would the president have to have a plan. Isn't it congresses job to draft bills. You can not draft a clearly one sided bill and keep saying we passed something were done.

The Republicans in 2010 ran on a platform of reigning in spending and big government and that is what they are doing. They do not trust the Democrats after that fiacso they pulled on the budget that almst led to a shutdown. These Republicans already had to break their promise to their constituents when they said they would cut $100 billion from the deficit. The Democrats whittled that figure down to $60 billion, then $38 billion, then really pissed them off when the CBO said the cuts really only amounted to a couple hundred million. There is no trust now and when Harry Reid says there are $2.7T in cuts, how can he be trusted after that stunt he pulled earlier this year??

This follows of trend of Democrats duping the Republicans. The Dems promised a secure border after they got Reagan to commit to amnesty for illegals. They got HW Bush to increases taxes breaking his infamous "read my lips" promise. Now this crap with the reducing spending. Democrats do not bargain in good faith. I can see why the Republicans, especially the newcomers, are not buying a word Harry Reid and his minions put out.

BabyBoomer48 "Here's the proposal, Roy Wilson. Don't you read a paper, at least?"

You seem to have a problem distinguishing between a rhetorical statement and a real proposal. A REAL proposal has details, not just talking points.

Give me details on what Obama said he would cut, and when he would cut them, and THEN he would have a 'plan'. Just saying he 'agreed to talk about them' is not a plan.

You do understand the difference, don't you?

Baby Boomer, when you read the NYT, and you get to the part where it says "Obama wants to..." you can stop reading. What follows is irrelevant at best, and probably worse.

There, I've saved you countless hours of wasted time that can now be put to more productive matters.

Geo, yes I do. My rep is a tea party guy, I email him all the time and get the same old drivel back all the time. I just finally told him that I was going to do all in my power to make sure he is not re- elected. For the first time, I am going beyond voting and actually becoming an activist. And I urge everyone else that feels like I do to actively campaign against the teaparty next election.

I wonder how many jerks in the "House" read this morons bill and understand it..notice he got by with 4 votes..needed 24 republicans and 20 said NAY!

Its for six months..they be right back at it again next year..what a waste!

Hey Roy - you buy into the GOP book keeping methods I see. Factor in the wars and what it cost us, you know the expenses bush never factored...don't forget about the interest paid on said money also.

you got that right Roy...all you can find on the WWW is Obama's "vision" , the zero doesn't even know how to balance a check book

Gimme Free,

What do you hate about the HC bill. Or have you read it? A mandate for all to have HC actually saves money. But i know what is wrong with it. It was a DEM idea, no wait I think that it was a REP frontrunners idea.

So is Reid's proposal going to cut spending just like the Medicare Dr. Fix (SGR) did? (not).

The OMB score that said HCR reform would eventually save money was based upon 1. 500b in medicare cuts (that will never happen) 2. double counting of the medicare cuts.. see #1, and implementation of SGR (medicare dr. fix) that requires massive cuts in payments to providers.

FYI the SGR has been shelved many times by congress and each time they do, the future cuts needed get larger.

So as a solid middle class person I do not advocate ANY more taxes for ANYONE as long as:

1. Congress can't seem to cut ANYTHING (I want a Guarantee cuts will be made!!). Start with the already passed SGR, and maybe I will listen.

2. As long as we are giving out BILLIONS in foreign aid, I will not support other Americans paying for it.

Real cuts NOW!! there is nothing wrong with a balance budget amendment... It is exactly what we need!

Toby-365107

Where is all the no raising the debt ceiling from baggers? Time for some new bags to replace the two faced bags. This is bipartison also, the GOP and Baggers.

LOL, and your mighty saviour has a plan? What is it? It doesn't exist! Over 800 days and your leader still can't get a budget passed through the Senate either. I guess we now know who the real party of "NO" is don't we?

The Democrats will cause our Country to lose our credit rating. Every time you spend more money due to our interest rates rising, blame the Democrats for NOT doing their job!

Come 2012, just remember who was trying and who wasn't. ONLY TWO bills have passed half of Congress, and they BOTH were written by Republicans. The Democrats haven't produced a single bill yet let alone passed one through the Senate. Not even Obama can produce a CBO analysis of his plan the Democrats claim he has, but hasn't shared with America or the Republicans.

I've heard of partisan gibberish before, but seriously, get off the cool aid (it stains).

Roy, the "Peter Principle" is about about a company promoting someone. Political parties are about power brokering behind closed doors. You don't have to be competent in running anything at all, just in brokering support.

Shiela, I'm sorry to hear that. The overwhelming majority of the Tea Party is concerned about restoring fiscal sanity to Washington. If your representative is doing that, I'd hope you would support him. Our country has been going off track for a long time, but it is the combination of the Tea Party plus the most destructive President in modern times that has brought this issue to a head.

Fred Bastiat

Tax rates are already the lowest they have been in 50 years - an average of 23% of total income

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2011-05-05-tax-cut-record-low_n.htm

I live in one of the highest-taxed areas in the country - NYC. A full 38% of my very average middle-class paycheck goes to taxes of some kind. And you know what? I think taxes should be raised.

Are your innovative free markets going to maintain our crumbling infrastructure that's been underfunded for decades? Will your free markets provide healthcare for the elderly? Will they reign in greenhouse gas production voluntarily?

Call me a liberal - some of you will. I don't care.

Because I believe some things are worth paying for.

Does anyone else find it incredibly sad that the BIG ACCOMPLISHMENT for Boehner is that he got his OWN PARTY to finally vote together?

Seriously, he didn't miraculously get Dem support. He didn't craft a bill that would make it through the Senate. He didn't even get close to something that can be considered compromise or bipartisan.

No, his ONLY accomplishment was getting his OWN party to finally vote together. That's it. And for some reason, Republicans are actually proud of this retarded feat.

The Tea Party is this nation's only hope.

Only hope for what? Defaulting on our debts? Because they will be the ones to blame if the U.S. does. They and their GOP cohorts constantly repeat the phrase "we're doing what the American people want", as if repeating it enough times might make it true. Look at almost all recent polls (except maybe Rasmussen, who is in the back pocket of Fox News): while many Americans blame Obama for the mess, even more blame Republicans in Congress. Over 60% of people don't want changes to Social Security and Medicare. Most people think the top 2% (i.e. millionaires and billionaires) should pay more in taxes.

This is not about spending more, it's about making good on the debts we already have. If we don't, the Tea Party will be responsible for the largest indirect tax increase in recent memory, since interest rates will rise along with the prices on everything. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Tea Party -- after all, the "Tea" in Tea Party is an acronym for "Taxed Enough Already" -- was responsible for the next recession?

On the bright side, if they do precipitate a default the people will know it, and the only place that will elect a Tea Party candidate will be in the backward states in the Deep South...

GeoSapper

Papa G, since Obama nd the Democrats got us into this mess, how could Boehner be trying to ruin America

Just yesterday . . . just ONE F**KING DAY AGO . . . Boehner admitted that the Tea Party Republicans are trying to cause chaos. Your own leader admits that the Tea Party is trying to destroy America.

Then McCain jumps in, calling them all idiots in bizarro world, and explains to the Tea Party that they are not Hobbits on a quest to Mordor.

Then the Republicans hold a meeting where they show a video that basically associates the Tea Party with a psychotic lunatic who is incapable of seeing any other opinion other than his own.

So ALL of these Republican leaders point out that the Tea Party is trying to ruin America . . . your own God D**N party admits it that the Tea Party is honestly trying to destroy the country . . . and you argue that it's not true.

Do you have a mental condition? Seriously, because only someone with an extreme mental condition would completely forget everything that happened YESTERDAY!

Geo, I want no part of a party that is not open to any compromise at all. The teaparty got a lot of republicans in, but this is not the republican party I supported for years. You might want to remember the tortoise always wins the race. A party that becomes too extreme in its thinking is good for no one.

It truly is sad to see all the CONTINUED hate mongering and perpetuated ignorance on the part of GOP minions, in here.

THE FACT IS, IN THE END, OBAMA HAS BEEN WILLING TO GIVE THE GOP ALMOST EVERYTHING IT WANTED AND ASKED ONLY FOR A FRACTION OF THESE NUMBERS IN REVENUE IN RETURN --- NOT NEW TAX BUT REVISED TAX LAW!!!

As usual, the GOP confussion factory continues to distort, tear down, disassimble and mock anything and everyting the OUR PRESIDENT does to the detriment of our country.

You have the usual list of Faux News full-time bloggers in here posting their repetitive diatribes, absent any objectivity or design for truth.

HOW ABOUT JUST ONE OF YOU @!$%#S BE HONEST:

OBAMA IS COMPROMISING AND YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU HATE HIM SO MUCH. AND THERE IS THE DIFFERENCE - YOUR HATE. THE REST OF US ARE THINKING COUNTRY...

And here coes the fingter pointing.

Over 60% of people don't want changes to Social Security and Medicare

Maybe those ill informed 60% have no idea that if changes AREN'T made, there will be no SS or Medicare in 10 years. Then what? Over 10,000 baby boomers PER DAY are eligible for these services for the next 19 YEARS!

Shiela, the Republicans have compromised an enormous amount - too much in my mind. Unfortunately, a lot of what they bend/cave/compromise on isn't reported that way. Remember the budget battle in the spring? The Republican position that started as hundreds of billions in cuts resulted in almost no cuts. Where was the great accolades from the left and the press to claim that the Republicans are great compromisers? It didn't happen.

So the truth is that the Republicans get almost no credit for trying to work with teh Democrats, while at the same time Democrats lie, weasel, cheat and steal (Google: Schumer) and rarely get called on it.

Like most things political, what is defined as extreme, or in this case "compromising," all depends on where you are standing.

Geo Snapper,

I suppose in your altered reality you actually believe the Republicans compromised. However, the rest of us who live in the real world know that the majority of polls taken clearly show that Americans believe the Republicans have not negotiated or compromised in any way, shape, or form. I can't believe that this small minority in our U.S. Congress tried to hold the entire country hostage. Compromise is a way of life for anyone who wants to lead a productive one. Any business deal requires compromise. If these newly elected Congress members can't compromise, then they should be voted out of office so that America can move forward in its economic recovery.

We aren't in this mess because of the President; these problems started before he even got into office, and all he's done is temper the damage in the best ways possible. We wouldn't be in this sad state of affairs had we not gone through seven years of Teapublican economic policy before Bush caused the Second Great Depression. You know why we have to run up the debt? Because we had to keep the country from completely collapsing under the Bush Depression.

Teapublicans under Bush? Sorry Toasty, but Bush and the Tea Party dont belong in the same sentence. In case you missed it, in 2010 the conservatives jettisoned most of the establishment Republicans from the Bush adminstration in the primaries.

And I dont understand why you liberals hated Bush. Everything the man did, outside of tax cuts and the wars, were right up you lib's alley. Expanding government bureaucracy, expanding medicare, a crack at amnesty for illegals. This guy was a RINO if I ever saw one!

Its hard to get excited about a partisan bill that has no chance in the Senate. I am not exactly going to blame the Dems if this doesn't go through.

Remember, weak as it is, Republicans do not hold the majority in the Senate, and do not hold the White House. Even if they act like they do. Don't believe the hype that they represent the majority of how Americans feel either, because the majority of Americans think they suck as much as the Democrats right now. Just as much.

LOL, Breaking News just proved my point. It's like the other shoe dropping.

So, that whole vote in the House was a waste of time. It doesn't count that you work on a plan if the plan is auto-fail. Sorry.

Waitings still for Republicans and Democrats to actually get serious. Neither is right now.

ROY WILSON-336103 Omama = The Peter Principle in action. (a)

Roy Wilson = cherry-pick statistics and make the rednecks think they are smart

We(the USA) have had great economic growth when our tax rates were much higher than they are now(look it up, I'm not here to find the info for you).

Anyone who says different is selling you ocean front property in the desert.

We've had income tax rates almost as high as 90% for those in the top brackets at times in our history. The economy did very well at those rates, so I doubt making the wealthy pay 5% more in taxes now is going do bankrupt them.

A 45% income tax rate no BS loopholes allowed) on all income over $500,000 or maybe over $1,000,000, is fair.

Capital gains taxes(on wealth not earned thru actual work) should be anywhere from 21%-25%.

If your deceased relative passes a house to you, and you decide to live there, then no capital gains should be imposed.

If you already own and live in a home, and you are going to sell or rent out your inherited property for a profit, then you should be taxed on the profit.

2 bills blocked by the senate Dems in 2 weeks... and these are the same imbeciles that actually push "obstruction" and "Party of no" rhetoric on their flock. No wonder fewer and fewer of the sheep are willing to pretend they are stupid enough to buy into it.

Obama’s approval numbers hit all-time low

"Just 40 percent of Americans say they approve of Obama’s performance as president. That is down three percentage points from Thursday. 50 percent say they do not approve of the job he is doing.

Just 41 percent of the public said they approved of the way Obama was handling the debt-ceiling negotiations, while 52 percent disapproved, according to another Gallup poll released Thursday.

Obama has also lost ground against a generic Republican challenger — getting 41 percent of the vote when matched with an unnamed Republican who polled 40 percent.

Obama’s approval rating is below that of former President Bill Clinton’s lowest approval rating during the government shutdowns of 1995."

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-approval-numbers-hit-time-low-185402373.html

What a freaking disaster.

Ammo, supplies, food, check! Have fun brainwashed America, when the system you so depend on, shuts down!

pjam09 -

His base will return to him (no where else to go) as the GOP continue to disintegrate. What a freaking disaster... your GOP are.

Boehner's bill barely passed in the House. That means that a number of republicans were against it. It looks like a number of republicans in the Senate are also against it. The question is why has Boehner wasted everyone's time on contriving a bill that his own party is split on? I guess, symbolism is alive and well, even though you know it's going nowhere. It just shows how ineffective this House Speaker is. But, he is boasting that the House has passed two bills, even though his own party was/is split on both of them. What a bunch of nonsense. And I thought I was confused..... We will remember all of these tea-thrics come November, 2012. Keep digging your graves republicans.

The question is why has Boehner wasted everyone's time on contriving a bill that his own party is split on?

The same reason Reid has. You pass a bill, the other guy passes a bill, then you work out the differences. Same as always, the only difference is people are foaming at the mouth about this one.

We will remember all of these tea-thrics come November, 2012. Keep digging your graves republicans.

Maybe, and maybe in ten years we'll realize we dug our own grave by not listening to them :(

To the people of Nevada, it's your fault we are where we are, you re-elected Harry Reid, when you should have made him stay home. He's hurt Americans enough all ready with Obamacare, yet, you sent him back to hurt us more. Thanks for that! (sar)

After the Senate vote, Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said, "For the second time, the House has passed a reasonable, common-sense plan to raise the debt limit and cut spending and, for the second time, Sen. Reid has tabled it. The responsibility to end this crisis is now entirely in the hands of Sen. Reid and President Obama."

Yes, the House has been trying to get the job done, but we have a Senate and White House who insist on bankrupting the American people so they can continue to spend like drunken sailors. This is disgusting.

Mr. President, how low will you allow your approval figures to slip down because of your inability to see reason? More Americans are seeing why you shouldn't be re-elected RIGHT NOW. (Too bad they couldn't see it in 2008 like I did......while I'm glad I didn't vote for you, I'm really sad for our country and how you've brought us down in such a short time. How can you sleep at night, knowing all the damage you've done? Or do you actually believe your talking points?)

Cautiously Optimistic One

ROY WILSON-336103 Omama = The Peter Principle in action. (a)

Roy Wilson = cherry-pick statistics and make the rednecks think they are smart

Funny stuff, you can't provide data do disprove Roy so you attack calling people rednecks. Sounds pretty liberal.

As far as I am concerned the only problem in this whole situation is Harry Reid. He has refused to allow anything to come to the floor for debate, which in my opinion is unconstitutional. He has failed to pass any budget since September of 2008, we are still looking for the 2010 Budget which was due Sept 2009. If this man does not allow one thing to get to the floor then how is anything suppose to be worked out, compromised on and voted on. We send our elected officials up there to represent us. But when one man refused to allow our elected officials to have a voice then we have a dictator in our senate. I am not happy with any of the parties. But I also am not blind that I cannot see who has been our primary problem for the last 3 years and it isn't the Tea Party, it isn't the house or is it even the President. Its this man!! Thank you Nevada!

roy's numbers have been shown to be a poor yardstick to determine "whose fault" it is for the deficiet in previous blogs. Yet he cuts and pastes the same tired article in numerous blogs, so much so that it has most people in a coma, but for the TP types it is the holy grail (read Kool-Aid)

Does anyone find it peculiar that the GOP/Kochheads have all acknowledged that job creation is hindered by uncertainty, yet everything they have done is to create uncertainty even over things normally considered routine?

Maybe those ill informed 60% have no idea that if changes AREN'T made, there will be no SS or Medicare in 10 years. Then what? Over 10,000 baby boomers PER DAY are eligible for these services for the next 19 YEARS!

Really? Even your faithful Fox News, although they spin it to favor the GOP when they say SS will run out of money by 2037, by default admits that Social Security will be solvent until 2036! (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/27/social-security-fund/) That's twenty-five years...25 years to fix the problem, 25 years of seniors getting what they paid into for all their working lives. If you had paid into a savings account for all your working life (assuming you even work) then had it taken away just as you retired...how would you feel?

That's another thing the GOP is doing to cut it's own throat. Seniors are a major factor in GOP voters...now the GOP is alienating them with all this stupid Tea Party crap. When the Tea Party started their rallies were strewn with ill-informed seniors with their "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" signs...now it's exactly those Tea Party clowns who want to literally take away Medicare...and Social Security!

The Tea Baggers, the few there are left, especially the ones in here like: AZChzhd, GeoSapper, ROY WILSON-336103, pjam09. Are perfect examples of how out of touch with Reality these Morons are!!! They really believe that they have actually accomplished anything other than making themselves a bunch of one term REP in Congress, they don't seem to have the slightest Idea that the American people hates their ways, that the independents that voted for them in 2010 are feeling the worst case of buyer's remorse in the history of the United States Of America, that not a single Senior Citizen is going to vote for them, that most of the Democrats did not even bother to vote in 2010 and, that is a mistake for which the whole country is paying dearly right now!!! There is only one thing that you guys have been successful at and that is quoting the words written on Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto personal diary "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Yamamoto said those words after the biggest political mistake that Japan has ever made, attacking Pearl Harbor; by the way, that was the last time that Japan was able to make any other political mistakes. We all know how that one turned out for them. Well Tea Baggers… You guys did it and the people will punish your childish behavior, your willingness to destroy what's left of our Country, for making all of us the laugh thing stock of the whole world. Your stubbornness has brought us to the brink of destruction. See ya' all in 2012 at the voting polls.

Trust me Jhon Smith, we are still here and growing every day. We can't wait to see you at the polls in 2012. Obviously you have no idea how the tea party is growing. Just because we are currently quiet doesn't mean we are not here. We are everywhere!

Perry/Rubio 2012

Myrtle,

You may still be here, but that doesn't mean I can't see daylight when I look in your ear.

Dear President Obama...

Please invoke your Executive Privilege given to you via the 14th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America and raise a "clean" unfettered debt limit and tell the Teabaggers to GO TO HELL where they were spawned and surely belong!

Sincerely...The Vast and Overwhelming Majority of American Citizens

AH yes, I see that the book burners and the censors have arrived....collapsing comments as fast as they can....brilliant people....

Obviously you have no idea how the tea party is growing.

It's you who have no idea how the Tea Party is shrinking! Or do you really think that if we default on our debts that anyone is going to take those moronic Baggers seriously?

Dear liberals/democrats PULL YOUR F"ING HYPOCRITICAL HEADS OUT OF YOUR AZZ...there I feel better...the PARTY OF NO more america DEMOCRATS and left wing liberals who think money grows on proverbial trees...

You know...even the semi-sane Republicans are trying to reach a compromise, unlike Boehner and the House's "bipartisan" bill that zero Democrats voted for! That's as bipartisan as Boehner claiming he's "doing as the American people want" despite every poll (except for some of the Fox News Rasmussen polls) saying otherwise.

The only reason any Democrats would "pull their head out of their azz" would be to allow you and your other Tea Party blockheads to put yours in there...on second thought, I'd rather have the $#!+ (fecal matter) that's in there now than any Tea Bagger's head...or any other part of his/her body...

Baggers aren't conservative, aren't libertarian, aren't anything, really, other than a bunch of people throwing a tantrum instead of working on anything. Don't worry Baggers, actual thinking conservatives are at work. Just don't cry when the country works because of it, but, um, your favorite few-cards-short-of-a-full-deck politician gets, well, nothing in the deal. Nothing but a lot of blood pressure.

Derek - wrong, you are confusing Liberals with the Tea Party. The Tea Party actually has the best interests of the Country in mind, not buying votes for the next election.

Just read the lastest incarnation of the bill and it is the weakest yet. We will definitely be downgraded and start paying more interest on the HUGE debt.

It was unclear whether tax increases could contribute to the additional budget savings under the trigger.

Someone better find out ASAP! Talk about "Dead on Arrival." That's what exactly should happen to this bill if tax increases are part of the plan.

you people who defend either party are being snowed. if you raise taxes the(gov) will just waist it. get off your party and stand together as AMERICANS and rid this country of these tyrants. P.S when the shazit hits the fan you better hope you have a gun! oh thats right most of you think your party will save you? NOT

No, willowbrook, I am indeed talking about the Tea Baggers this time, as opposed to their counterparts in psychotic behavior, the Eco Terrorists. So happens sickofthisshazit is right on the money.

Sorry about your luck there Derek - your stick with those self-serving Liberals who are only interested in winning the next election, not the financial health of the country. The rest of us want the problem fixed. Votes are not the problem, overspending is. Will get back to you when the entitlement programs are unable to pay out. As it is, there will be no SSI or Medicare when it is time for me to retire if we continue down the path we are currently on. I'm already taking steps to take care of my needs, as the govt. has taken my money and squandered it. I've worked all these years so poor people can have cell phones and flat screen TVs and Illegals can collect US welfare. I don't think much of that. Younger America has no clue what it is to be truly poor. It it about time that they learn.

The problem is right there in your first sentence. You can't tell the difference between someone who is independent or conservative versus an extremist (that's you, by the way). Lefty extremists think all of you are Nazi's, etc. On the other hand, you can't see anybody who disagrees with you as anything but a member of the other side.

And that problem leads to you being forced out of everything. Many as they are, lefty and righty extremists are full of talk and get no results. Oh, and then get mad that all their anger didn't get them the results they feel they deserve.

'you' wanting the problem fixed isn't really what you are saying at all. 'you' want it fixed your way, the 'right' way, or it isn't fixed. So you aren't really interested in solving any problems, are you? You are interested in getting 'your' way. It never occurs to you that solving problems involves listening as well as raging, and then you (and of course, the counterpart radicals on the left, like PETA and the whale boat hunters) get shoved to the wayside in the negotiation.

You are going to be unhappy from here to eternity. If the government fails, your version of a pop-gun won't save you from an invading country. That would, again, involve working together with people who may not think exactly like you. So sure, take great solace in bearing your personal cross until then. And I suppose satisfaction that if you go down, some psychopath on the left will perish too. I personally don't think it is a lot to aspire to, however, you know, living in the prison of your own thoughts. But hey, you enjoy it over there. The rest of 'us' are moving on....at least I am....

Less than 48 hours to De-fault. Never before have we faced this until the Tea Party took over the House. I hope you all remember this in November 2012.

Edward F. Dijeau

Perhaps if we had a TEA Party or some similar movement in the past 90 years the Liberal Progressives would not have been able to create the unsustainable government we see today. 90% of our government is not Constitutionally mandated. This is the problem, not the TEA Party.

Constitutionally limited government, fiscal responsibility and free-market principles are what our country should be about. Not ever growing government that doesn't care whether their thousands of programs are functional let alone affordable.

Remember, in 1960 our poverty rate was 14%, today it is 14.3%. TRILLIONS of dollars have been wasted on this and other programs such as the wars on drugs, crime and illiteracy. When do the Liberal Progressives finally admit their nanny-state governement can never exist in a society our size?

I would hope more people remember this in 2012 also. The TEA Party has brought to the forefront this massive unaffordable government that has been created.

Speaking later Sunday, House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said it was unclear whether House Democrats would back the deal. "We all may not be able to support it, or none of us may be able to support it. But we'll wait and see," Pelosi told reporters.

Wait and see whats in it...Nancy's famous last words...

When is the wizard of Oz going to drop a house on this wicked witch?

GO cALI!!! go CALI!!! Go! Go! Go! EXCELLENT!!!!! #1.39 and 1.41!!!!

REPEAT: Go Cali!!! GO CALI!!!! GO! GO! GO! #1.41 EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!

Political Clean Slate: If you were in office in 2000- "GET OUT!!!" (Reps & Dems)

Attention spans. The lower I get down the list here from top to bottom the less the voting gets. Fellow Democrats we have been had .What did we gain in all this mess? A big fat goose egg. I hope Ralph Nader does what he proposed and jumps onto a Democratic ticket and challenges the president in 2012.

Both Democrats and republicans enjoyed spending the money for their home States and their Political Interests. The Republicans back the Military, Big Oil and Big Banks. The Democrats back Social Programs, foreign Aid, Education and Government work projects. SPEND, SPEND SPEND. Now here comes the bills and they point fingers at each other. He Did it , no , they did it, yet, no one wants to pay the bill, so, for the 40 years, since Viet Nam, they pull out the "Government Credit Card." Borowed on the "Social Security Trust" putting in I.O.U.s. They promised a TAX FREE retirement program we paid taxes on premiums for and already they are taxing it if you make over 25K. Double taxation is already here on Seniors and now come the cuts.

Now the incoming income is not enough to pay all the bills coming in each month. it is Time to cut back the spending and ask for a raise. Powerful Big business does not want to give then the big raise. The Powerful wealthy don't want to give them the big raise either. So now, all the little people, with no power, will be forced to give up their money, Social Security and pensions because they have no power.

The tea party is not working for the "Working Americans" or "small Business" people who will be left holding the 16 trillion dollar bag for 100 years. We are headed for a Dictatorship where a wealthy group of powerful people Will dictate how much you will make and how long you will work. Labor laws will be thrown away and on the backs of workers will be forged the new Corporate America. Unions will be banned, Minimum wage eliminated and as we race toward the bottom and child labor will fuel the debt paying economy so the Rich can sit high on their hills and watch us suffer.

The Veterans from WWII, Korea, Viet Nam who depend on the VA and Social Security will be thrown out on the streets. Everything they fought for to defeat tyranny will be for nothing because the tyranny of the "Corporate America" will put profits first and veterans were always expendable, that is why we "DRAFTED THEM", they were never meant to survive. The ultimate death panel.

Derek - there is only ONE way to fix this problem. If you are spending more than you have in income, then you need to stop over-spending. What Washington is doing is dancing around the solution. Washington is spending far, far more than it is taking in. Raising taxes will not make up for the short fall. (let alone, with our currently poor economy, will probably end up not bringing in the revenue the govt. thinks it would.)

And no I'm not an extremist, unhappy, or a prisoner of my own thoughts. I am, however a person who has successfully lived through enough problems and hard times to know you can't always sugar coat everything and it will be "all better." Real life is not that way. It is time Washington steps up to real life and stops sugar coating.

Seriously Newsvine??? You have to keep running the same discussion board on every news story related to these deficit talks??? who has time to go through 29k comments?

@willowbrook, actually you have to raise revenues AND cut. If you got me a crazy extremist from the left who thought it was only a good idea to raise revenues on the wealthy and corporations, and keep all entitlement programs just the way they are (they'd probably want to add to them too), I'd laugh my tookus off. But cutting only is not going to do it either. Based on the deal that just got made, by the way, we WILL be talking about raising revenue soon enough.

Fine, if you want to say you aren't a 'prisoner in your own mind,' I accept. Just remember, if you look at someone with the opposite point of view as you, and it is obvious they are only listening to one side of the arguement, well, that's what it looks like when you or I do the same thing. In other words, it looks crazy.

Today is a good day for the dealmakers. And while sometimes dealmaking is a dirty word, today it isn't. People aren't happy, particularly extremists, and that is a good thing. It has been a gravy train for those who have had low taxes, and they just can't get it, even though the country is burning money. It is also time for those who want to make no sacrifices at all just because they work for the government to step up. You cut costs and raise some revenues to normal levels, and lo and behold, you'll have a chance. Do either/or and the math shows its over.

Derek

You Income has been stable say for TWO years, in those TWO years you where ably to put some money aside for " Rainy days" then a Month ago, you or someone in your Family started to spend More then you income, So if YOU cannot increase you Income, what IS the solution ?
And why must you say " IF i cannot Increase MY income i will NOT reduce expenditure"?

@ Derek - I never implied or said you were Liberal, extremist, or otherwise. Nor did I say or assumed I knew what you believed.

Actually, I have considered the both raising taxes as well as cutting spending, for some time. Here is why I am against raising taxes. In the recent decades, we have fallen into a pattern of lowering and raising taxes for various reasons. But, especially in recent years, the govt. has spent, and borrowed, spent and borrowed. Which, oddly enough was a mirror of the spending practices of a fair number of Americans. When this was popular, all those involved were happy and had the "appearance" of doing well. This house of cards fell first for the average Americans. Mortgage and credit maxed out, they had no where to go financially, when the job was lost, or cut back. In the case of the govt., pretty much all parties are guilty of this. Now we are to the point where they need to make that decision. What is the solution? Raise the debt limit and continue to play games and make "promises." Would the credit card company raise the credit limit on a maxed out card based on the holder's "promise" that "I'll cut back my future spending to make up for the credit increase you are giving me." No, the card company would cut off the card until things were back in order.
The govt. has no one forcing them to be accountable. They need the credit company to cut them off until the house is in order. Raising taxes is part of the "scheme" for the govt. to continue to abuse taxpayer money and not reform their ways. That is why they do not need any more revenue until they show the ability to "get their house in order." Then any future increases, need to be specific and defendable. Do you give an alcoholic a fifth and have good faith that he won't drink it? The cycle of waste and mismanagement needs to stop in Washington. Why not now? The sooner we start, the sooner we will get to a financially stronger place.

We are already behind in this process because of the "stimulus." The govt. passing out money they didn't actually have to create jobs was a sham. The majority spent went to propping state and local public sector jobs. Now that the money has run out, we are back to square one. Now they are doing the reducing and cutting back they should have done in 2009. And unemployment is not any better as well. People should have known better. This didn't work during the Depression, only WWII got us out of that.

Personally I don't see the point of repeating previously unsuccessful policies. This is not scholarly research, where we have to "prove" the failure of the experiment by repeating the research to see if it fails repeatedly.

Willowbrook...well said...Obama has not had a clue during the whole presidency....He has even admitted that he didnt actually know what a "shovel ready job" was and yet that was a major part of his rhetoric and program to convince the public that he had a program. His only program has been to increase spending and to grow government....and that doesnt work...and that has just been proven to us again....

JA,

that is NOT what he said, if you have to try and prove a point by putting words in another persons mouth, then you really DON"T KNOW what YOU are talking about.

To the people of Nevada, it's your fault we are where we are, you re-elected Harry Reid, when you should have made him stay home.

So you think they should have elected Sharron Angle? Any credibility you might have had just went flying out the window!

Roy,

No matter how many times people continue to prove you wrong, you still keep pasting those complete lies about the deficit.

MJL....One of Obamas big promises was that he was going to immediately get some shovel ready jobs going.....and he admitted long afterward that there is no such thing as a shovel ready job.....Most of the country knows this so I dont think you will be successful twisting it into something else....The brilliant Obama appears to be not so brilliant....but you will support him no matter how wrong and inexperienced he is....

JA

No he said they weren't as shovel ready as he had expected. Do you know why they weren't?

It is because the funding was offered to the state and all of the Red states chose not to use it for INFASTRUCTURE. There IS such a thing as Shovel Ready jobs, but it is up to each GOV in EACH state to go after the money,

Like the AM TRAC in IA/IL.

Get you fact clear , quote FACTs not your BS, I am sick of it. IF you call me out on something be prepared for the TRUTH.

http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/default.aspx

Check out what is available in your state, better hurry, it in the GOP cuts now.

MJL...You spin everything...Immediate jobs dont happen because they take periods of planning and engineering and hiring and they have to go through gov rules, local and federal.....Actually he didnt try very hard...He could have had a commission ready to help plan and administer those kinds of jobs, but he just decided to give the money to states and groups and that did little good and produced almost no jobs...If that commission could have operated there would have been applications and jobs would have resulted...not immediately, but by now it would have been significant....instead he just made two or three hundred speeches....at least he knows how to do that even if it produces nothing....Obama FAILED....and He Is STILL FAILING.....He just talks....

Bill C-645784

Roy,

No matter how many times people continue to prove you wrong, you still keep pasting those complete lies about the deficit.

Funny, I haven't seen anything that disproves the government sources Roy typically utilizes, including the White House, to support his posts. I am not surprised that people simply discount the truth because it doesn't fit in their self-imposed reality. A state of denial typically causes this mistake.

JA,

Isn't that why he specified shovel-ready projects to begin with? He wanted to give a boost to projects that had already been through the planning/engineering, etc.

Of course people like Chris Christie and the FL governor stubbornly refused after being selected - letting a golden opportunity for their states slip right by.

To me, this was a much better idea than just sending out checks to everyone, as Bush did, with nothing to show for it afterwards.

Bill,

JA doesn't get it because he would rather spew his BS,

IGNORE< I just don't think he can comprehend what I am saying.

Bill

Excellent point, plus the USA infrastructure Sure,... needs an Upgrade, sending folks back a check does not do anything about the aging and falling apart system.

Just imagine how many $$$$ would be saved by a " fast train" in-between CITY centre to City Centre, and how much that would reduce Air Pollution.

I am simply saying that Obama had no idea what he was saying ....and later he admitted that he did not understand it at all....and I believe that....You will also note that I thought that he should have had a plan and a commission put together to accomplish the more jobs effort....Not just say nothing about it for the next yr and a half.....That jobs commission should have evalutated all the suggestions that came forth and put them in at least three catagories of immediate, mid range and long term. And It should have identified jobs that could be permanent as the most desirable....and programs that produced something of value as most desirable....Instead, he just gave the money to states and groups and there was no job building aspect to it at all....it is just gone and the states were not forced to immediately address their overspending problem and just put that off....That money is all gone and little good happened, Therefore it had little value....There was no plan..it was here, take this money....

Obama is proving once more that the liberal theory just doesnt work....Part of that theory is "just give us more of your money, we will spend it or give it away. It will produce little or nothing and then it is gone....Then give us some more or your money..".

J.A-522495

I am simply saying that Obama had no idea what he was saying

That comment coming from a master of it

MJL....One of the weirdest things going on now is the libs assumption that Obama is the most intelligent man in the world and knows all about everything....He has proven his lack of knowledge and experience continuously with error after error and yet still pretends that he knows what he is talking about.....I just have to believe that his rabid followers dont know much about anything also....Tell us, Do you actually believe that Obama has done a bang up job with the economy in his 2.5yrs and that you really like the results??? Or, will you still be blaming republicans for another few years??? Will we be having our second summer of recovery...and then third summer...and then the fourth summer of recovery??? Or is this as good as it gets with Obama??

Oh, JA, yea of so little faith or hope, you put you hopes and asperations in the tea party repubs. What happened, you watch the GOP Govenors attack in MI, WI, OH, FL, etc.

Going after unions but running on JOBS JOBS JOBS, but Boehner did say about unemployment , "So be it' . It must be very disappointing to vote for the Scum of the earth, GOP in washington to watch them attack, womens health, education, children, Elderly, poor, Veterans, tear down the 40 yr old jobs bill.

I won't mention GW, you live in a la la cloud unwilling to come down to earth.

Yes, the economy will recovery but NOT if a republican President. Obama has done a pretty good job considering the opposition from the GOP

"Make Obama a One Term President" Cantor , McConnell, Boehner,

But who had to pull everyone together to get the debt ceiling raised, in fact the GOP wanted him to take charge, you know as well as everyone else, it should have been a clean debt ceiling and then work on the rest, if you cant see what YOUR precious TP'ers are doing, everyone else sees it as clear as a bell, Won't work in 2012

MJL...Yea, yea, it is all wonderful that they are still fooling the people with more spending and debt....and by clean debt ceiling you mean with no promises to be honest with the public....Sorry, there is a limit on how much crazy Obama debt is allowed....You just wait, they will try to cheat on this spending limit....We all expect them to try to cheat it up again and again....They will be back with "we need to spend more" very soon....

myrtle66

Trust me Jhon Smith, we are still here and growing every day. We can't wait to see you at the polls in 2012. Obviously you have no idea how the tea party is growing. Just because we are currently quiet doesn't mean we are not here. We are everywhere!

Perry/Rubio 2012

#1.68 - Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:29 PM EDT

So... You guys operate like sleeper cells? Interesting thanks for the Intel, we all ready had started looking at your organization as home grown terrorists, hijackers, extortionists, blackmailers, and religious extremists. too bad for you guys that just like any other extremist terrorist group instead of gaining the people's approval you're getting rejection, and everybody is distancing them selves from you even the GOP. Keep at it, you're doing a great job!

I dont think the left wingnuts name calling is going to work this time...Too many people are now aware of your tactics and your record....You have created a very dangerous situation for our country and now the smart ass name calling sounds like nothing other than smart ass name calling....There is no excuse for what the Obama experiment is doing to this country....You have created a huge disaster and people are now aware of that.

JA,

I created a very dangeous situation?

Is that a threat?

MJL....are you going to go all crazy on me??? I would not be surprised.

JA

I dont think the left wingnuts name calling is going to work this time...Too many people are now aware of your tactics and your record....You have created a very dangerous situation for our country and now the smart ass name calling sounds like nothing other than smart ass name calling....There is no excuse for what the Obama experiment is doing to this country....You have created a huge disaster and people are now aware of that.

You said I hve created a very dangeous situation......... I have created a huge disaster and people are now aware of that,

How did I create anything? I do nt "go crazy" on anyone

Yes, I said what I said and believe....And, more and more people have seen the proof of that and believe it also...I dont believe the support for the Obama experiment is now so strong after failure after failure as people witness the seriousness of the lib mistakes that will be so difficult to get rid of....They have crippled our country and yet they still have the chip on their shoulders....And, very few of you guys would ever admit how wrong you have been....You would continue to just blindly blunder on....

I really do not know why any sane citizens would want to be President of the United States of America corrupt system? "We the people" can change the candidates in all three branches of our government; but we cannot change the corrupt system. I guess they must want to build up their resume for their next elected public servant job. President Bush recalled his presidency experience was as living in a cesspool of dung!! So I guess the presidency looks good only on paper but, in reality; it is death and destruction to their bodies personally!! I have discovered that unless all three branches of our government is working together.........for the better of our nation; our nation will be destroyed from within by our elected public servants known as "we the people" domestic enemies!!! I am waiting to hear a reporter ask a member of the House and the Senate the same question that was asked of President Barack Hussein Obama......."which comes first America or your race."

@DBW... this very Forum you comment on is a testament to American exceptionalism... I did not vote for Obama... do not like any of his policies... Indeed I'm a Christian, American, Republican... That order... Yet I understand very well why "Any sane person would want to be POTUS"

Someone has to say "Im not afraid to dive in the Cesspool" I will "attempt" to lead this nation." American system has it's imperfectness but we will struggle and overcome... not just saying it to sound good but Many people may have their own agenda to the WHY president but all are (including President Obama) are Americans who made it in America and want to see it better no matter the difficulties... This makes our Political and American system works... you don't like the Republicans... you can change your party and vote... you can speak out with out fear... you can organize a TEA party.. There are no limits to the possibility... Why would some one become a Father, Why would someone become a manager.. why would.... you get my point. This is the" Good thing" that President Obama did that we all can be proud of... He got up and did something about what he saw. I would to God that all Americans have this mind set: What can I do to change this for the better... for "God and Country"....

Republican jerks got a lot of what they asked for in that bill. They chose not to vote for it because it would have the President a victory. Shame on you all stop lying.

Boehner and the republicans are a disgrace to this country. People will not forget this in November. They have starved this economy and now feign horror at the state of it. Where are the jobs these liars promised us in November? Not one bill but plenty that attempted to curtail the rights of women, gays and minorities. Shameful. This crowd reminds me of how some of the kids in my afterschool program try and negotiate for what they want.. They should be sent home and told not to come back until they understand that we are all in this together. Frankly, my students behave better than these phonies.

You're right irenemiscione...people won't forget this in Nov 2012.

sha na na na, sha na na na, hey hey hey goodbye (Obama)

ire

Is that what you want, an Obama victory or what's best for the United States? They are not one and the same. If the President actually had a pair, he would have put his own plan out there in writing, but he chose to play politics instead. Even Peggy Noonan is calling him "a loser" for his failed leadership. I lived through Carter (but voted for Ford), but this guy makes Carter look pretty good. In fact, I wonder how many on the left are now wishing that Hillary had won? She at least has more of a pair than the President.

Irene, if the Republicans wanted the bill, they would have voted for it. Obama, Pelosi and Reid, the American Axis of Evil, crammed that pile of excrement down our throats without so much as even reading it!

You ask, Where are the jobs promised in November? They're in Texas, haven't you seen them?

Kumar

The country wants Obamacare. Deal with it

Yep - seen them.....all minimum wage!

Sounds like Bachman (get rid of minimum wage to attain full employment) is a theme you Repubs can back 100%..

btw - I also notice Texas debt by % is growing faster then the US .....guess that employment is working!

We need the Health Care bill that was passed. The Insurance companies are only interested in making money. They deny coverage all the time. The GOP wants to get rid of the new law so they can keep employees from having a say on where they work. Insurance is a big reason people do not change employment when they want. How can all these fools fall for the GOP's stand on healthcare?

The GOP says a woman should not have a choice give by Rowe v Wade, then they turn around and say you have no choice in health care. GOP is fools they just want to control every part of your life, and if you do not like it they invent things like the Tea party to show you how stupid they really are.

It could have been Bi-Partisan except for your same ol same ol "just say no."

Oldschoollatin:

To say nothing of that two-term bumbling idiot who was incapable of speaking in complete sentences.... 2 wars of choice (although Afghan war warranted) spent the surplus in the first six months in office like a drunken sailor, RAISED THE DEBT CEILING SEVEN TIMES... and Republicans call themselves fiscally responsible... tsk tsk.

The "Neo-Con" Republicans (not your daddy's republicans I once voted for) see the writing on the wall, they have to have some sort of perceived victory over the Democrats to save face in view of their religious-right and corporate overlords, even if it means running the country into the ditch. It was OK for previous Presidents to raise the debt ceiling, but now it's a HUGE concern... can you say: o-b-s-t-r-u-c-t-i-o-n-i-s-m???

I wonder how many jerks in the "House" read this morons bill and understand it..notice he got by with 4 votes..needed 24 republicans and 20 said NAY!

Its for six months..they be right back at it again next year..what a waste!

Omama = The Peter Principle in action. (a)

(a) - For those who don't remember the Peter Principle, it's that a person tends to rise through an organization to their level of incompetence. In other words, "he's in over his head", and is desperately treading water. Having Nancy Pelosi make all of his legislative decisions in his first 2 years (and screwing up the economy) was certainly a tell-tale sign.

Kumar -

Remember all the revisions that went into "Obamacare"? Do you remember why there were so many revisions? Remember all the things that Republicans added? Yes, it was bipartisan.

Your memory sucks.

Boner said he stuck his neck out? Not far enough-- when we lived on the ranch I got real good at chopping heads off chickens when they stuck their necks out when on the chopping block.

@Roy Wilson - nice concise analysis you've done Roy, too bad it's meaningless. Actions, programs, legislation, etc. enacted during one party's control can generate deficits (or surpluses) that are recognized years later when another party may be in control. A simple comparison of deficit amounts against who happens to be in control at that specific time period is worthless in terms of measuring who has real responsibility for actually incurring the liabilities. Nice try though. Just goes to show - "Figures don't lie, but liars sure can figure."

While we're posting hyperlinks - here's one for you:

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/obamas-and-bushs-effect-on-the-deficit-in-one-graph/2011/07/25/gIQAELOrYI_blog.html

So is Reid's proposal going to cut spending just like the Medicare Dr. Fix (SGR) did? (not).

The OMB score that said HCR reform would eventually save money was based upon 1. 500b in medicare cuts (that will never happen) 2. double counting of the medicare cuts.. see #1, and implementation of SGR (medicare dr. fix) that requires massive cuts in payments to providers.

FYI the SGR has been shelved many times by congress and each time they do, the future cuts needed get larger.

So as a solid middle class person I do not advocate ANY more taxes for ANYONE as long as:

1. Congress can't seem to cut ANYTHING (I want a Guarantee cuts will be made!!). Start with the already passed SGR, and maybe I will listen.

2. As long as we are giving out BILLIONS in foreign aid, I will not support other Americans paying for it.

Real cuts NOW!! there is nothing wrong with a balance budget amendment... It is exactly what we need!

It truly is sad to see all the CONTINUED hate mongering and perpetuated ignorance on the part of GOP minions, in here.

THE FACT IS, IN THE END, OBAMA HAS BEEN WILLING TO GIVE THE GOP ALMOST EVERYTHING IT WANTED AND ASKED ONLY FOR A FRACTION OF THESE NUMBERS IN REVENUE IN RETURN --- NOT NEW TAX BUT REVISED TAX LAW!!!

As usual, the GOP confussion factory continues to distort, tear down, disassimble and mock anything and everyting the OUR PRESIDENT does to the detriment of our country.

You have the usual list of Faux News full-time bloggers in here posting their repetitive diatribes, absent any objectivity or design for truth.

HOW ABOUT JUST ONE OF YOU @!$%#S BE HONEST:

OBAMA IS COMPROMISING AND YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU HATE HIM SO MUCH. AND THERE IS THE DIFFERENCE - YOUR HATE. THE REST OF US ARE THINKING COUNTRY...

And here coes the fingter pointing.

No constitutional amendment for a balanced budget...

No debt ceiling increase...

No kidding...

This is not a game and it has nothing to do with politics.

Thank-you Tea Party... keep up the good work.

You an other GOP keep bringing that dead horse up. I suppose that you would like if you had no health care at all. An now I look at all the GOP an they are trying to rape america again they have been doing this since Bush. Unpaid wars Tax Cuts for the rich loop hole for the corp. the lead that Party around by the nose. Don't even give me this Obama care crap I say let dump the tea party in the bay like the tea baggers the are. They are not looking out for the American People they are looking to line their own pockets just like most of the GOP that has been elected.They have no idea how to govern. If Boehner would of done the right thing an compromised the Repubs might of save some face instead of sticking up the tea parties a====

kemetstry "The country wants Obamacare. Deal with it"

Yes, they want it to go away. The LAST thing we need right now is another expensive, unfunded 'entitlement' program that will help bankrupt the Country.

StopTheLiesNOW "THE FACT IS, IN THE END, OBAMA HAS BEEN WILLING TO GIVE THE GOP ALMOST EVERYTHING IT WANTED AND ASKED ONLY FOR A FRACTION OF THESE NUMBERS IN REVENUE IN RETURN --- NOT NEW TAX BUT REVISED TAX LAW!!!"

Nice try at a 'spin', but all of the reports said that they (Obama and Boehner) negotiated a cut in spending of $1.65 Trillion, $800 Billion in new tax revenues from tax reform, and an increase in the debt limit of $2.4 Trillion, but then, at the last minute, after conferring with Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, Obama then demanded another $400 Billion in new taxes, which caused the deal to fall apart.

I suspect that Obama wishes that he kept that agreement, but it's too late now. Obama is the epitome of someone who is clearly "in over his head".

The Peter Principle certainly applies to him. See Post #2.12

Obama says "Solution must be bipartisan." You mean like Obamacare?

Another right wing giveaway to fascist corporations? Yeah - that could very well be what he means.

Rand Paul is such a phony that he can't even show his real head, it must have a big point on top of it. I would slap that wig off of his pointy head, and make him eat it.

PS. If you're looking for proof on my claim -

Just ask yourself how many Obama supportive comments you've seen on the part of the REGULARS in here who CLAIM to be independent???

Like their master - Faux News - claims of "Fair and Balance" masking an agenda of deception.

I for one am glad to see the cost reductions that are going to occur due to GOP pressure! I only wish the GOP/TB could share in my compromise and look for some patriotism from the top 10 percent.

It's 2011 and the Bush tax cuts did not work. Deal with it.

Unlike the posers in this forum, I actually am a moderate but I learn liberal on fiscal matters, conservative on social ones... Why? Because I actually have an education other than media propaganda and I look at outcomes over a bunch of rationalization drudged up by GOP operatives pretending to be legitimate news outlets.

LOL.

Just look at California we are Broke 26 Billion

and who controls the State Legislature

D E M O C R A T S

Since the mid 1970s they been pooping and taking individual freedoms from Californians.

You can try and blame the other party but they are a minority.

ROY WILSON-336103

Those independent colors of yours are showing again. About as honest and reliable as your information. lol.

Look at outcomes over abstract truths and you'll be a lot better off.

OBAMA has given YOUR party what it wants... you won't compromise! Boner, walks away... Boner won't return calls.

Man up and see the forest for the trees. McCain along with a host of other GOP of old are aligning themselves AGAINST the TP --- come on, admit it... you can do it. They see past Faux (YOUR) spin. LOL.

I'm sure ole' Roy will not be returning his Social Security and Medicare checks.

The problem with people like you Roy, is you like to scream so loud that the only message that comes through is "Hypocrite."

kemetstry -

Proof please. Can you actually point to an unbiased poll that says that a majority of Americans want Obamacare or are you just spouting leftist rhetoric because that's what you want to believe?

Old School Latin Teacher: As a teacher you should have know that it is not the job of the President to write bills, that is the job of the congress, because there has been no respect for the President based on him being a Democrat as well as being a Black Man (and don't tell me I am being racist, you know what I say is true)you Republicans ask of things by this President you would not dare ask of another person no matter the political affiliation, why don't y'all grow some respect since y'all didn't learn it from your MAMAS.

I'm sure ole' Roy will not be returning his Social Security and Medicare checks.

The problem with people like you Roy, is you like to scream so loud that the only message that comes through is "Hypocrite."

NO, NO, Roy is in FAVOR of taxing the wealthy. LOL. Where one lacks rhyme of reason they can offer repetition.

:)

OMG stop cm heh race cards are @!$%#ing lame We are a Nation of all colors & creeds it's all about policy and his just sucks 8)

get over it already we are in the 21st century and I would vote for Condi if she ran she has a bigger set of balls then this putz.

Yea Geo Sapper: Plenty of jobs in Texas if you like being a waitress, working at Taco Bell, Walmart, K-mart and all the other marts, the Mall..not much jobs in the Tech field, engineering unless you want to be in oil/gas industry, not much to offer, personally, I don't like cliques, and all these industries are related one way or the other, that's why I got the h*ll out of dodge (Texas)

Big Al: Yea, you would have voted Condi, You, perhaps, others I would put $$$ on, it's his race, I have seen too many criticism to have to draw that conclusion, As for Condi I wouldn't vote for her, don't like the policies she embraced with G.W, it's not color with me either it's what we believe in.

CM The Key Word is Working, that the Economy of Texas is supporting those Jobs. In spite of being overun by Illegals, think about that when you line up in that unemployment line. Seems to be a Much more viable solution than anything BHO has tendered. Oh Oh Wait, I forgot, unemployment insurance is employment, according to one of the Great Minds in the House, Pelosi.

By the Border: Employment is a wonderful thing, but if a person is unable to support themselves and family with that paycheck you think they're going to be happy? If a person cannot take their family out to dinner, movies, arcade on the weekend they won't be happy, these minimum wage jobs Texas is offering is not worth anything but long miserable hours and nothing to show for it, hell, it can't even pay the rent, light, food transportation and all the other necessities, I lived in Texas for 16 years I know what I talking about, and I had a so called good job in one of the oil companies, the misery endured with co-workers, then supervisors, the envy if you wear something new, the questions where did you get that from, the boss even wants to know your zipcode to see what neighborhood you live in...Texas..F off.

Zambu,

Good link, thanks for finding that. People forget that a lot of Bush's spending lives on far beyond when he left office. What was Obama supposed to do? Immediately stop both wars, immediately overturn the Bush tax cuts and immediately end the Medicare prescription drug program? Even if he wanted to, he couldn't have done it. If he could have done that his numbers would be much different then he gets "credit" for.

Because those continuing Bush spending items were unfunded from the beginning, they became the gift that keeps on taking. Just because some of the money to pay for that was borrowed during Obama's term, doesn't make it "his debt" or "his spending". The debt may have grown under his watch, but the bulk of that growth had nothing to do with Obama policies. Most people are either too dumb to see this or are just looking for an excuse to hate Obama. He may be the guy expected to fix the mess, but it sure isn't one he created. And it isn't so easy to fix something when the other side stops virtually every attempt you make.

Ezra Kline is a very smart young man and makes pretty good use of his mind in his analysis. But he's not politically blinded either. I've seen him be critical of some of Obama's approaches too. The kid looks at facts and data, not trumped up spin. It should be no surprise that his analysis in this case is favorable of Obama, because that's what the real data says. He puts the numbers into proper context rather than manipulating raw data to create a vision you want to see.

I thought "The Peter Principle" is when you post the same thing over and over. Oh that is dementia. Sorry.

Less than 48 hours to De-fault. Never before have we faced this until the Tea Party took over the House. I hope you all remember this in November 2012.

Every time an Amendment was added to a bill,to pay for the bill with taxes, The Amendment went down in Flames and the Bill would pass with No Funding. Raise the DEBT limit they all would chime and 7 times it was raised during the Bush years. John Kerry voted for the Amendment to fund the Iraq War if it was paid for by the Taxes raised by the Amendment. It Failed, So Senator John Kerry voted against the Bill to fund the War without paying for it. In 2004, FLIP-FLOP was the nick-name given Senator John Kerry because he said he voted for it before he voted against it. Republicans, at their National convention, passed out Flip-Flop Slippers to the audience for televised waving because they wanted to make John Kerry and the fiscal responsibility he wanted to be thought of as bad.

The Democrats want to pay for what we do but Republicans want to pass it on down the road. Now it is JUDGMENT DAY and The United States of America Will pay with a collapsed Dollar, Defaulting to it's Seniors their Social Security and Inflation with shrink the Value of the Dollar by 75% or more just like what happened in Indonesia in 1998. Riots in the Streets, worse than the Watts Riots, will sweep across America. Wealthy persons reresidences burned, occupants Raped and murdered, Just like in Indonesia in 1998. Martial Law, State by State, will be imposed. A general Strike that will last until wages are brought up to the new value of the Dollar. All so the Wealthy can keep and extra 5% in Income taxes, they will lose 80% of their wealth to inflation.

Democatthroughandthrough

Oldschoollatin:

To say nothing of that two-term bumbling idiot who was incapable of speaking in complete sentences.... 2 wars of choice (although Afghan war warranted) spent the surplus in the first six months in office like a drunken sailor, RAISED THE DEBT CEILING SEVEN TIMES... and Republicans call themselves fiscally responsible... tsk tsk.

To say nothing of that two-term bumbling idiot who was incapable of speaking in complete sentences.... 2 wars of choice (although Afghan war warranted) spent the surplus in the first six months in office like a drunken sailor, RAISED THE DEBT CEILING SEVEN TIMES... and Republicans call themselves fiscally responsible... tsk tsk.(sic)"

As far as the speech making capabilities of both men are concerned (and I roasted Bush for his verbal asininities) I note that without the use of teleprompters both men sound ridiculous and completely lost in the vagaries of English. (Do you think it might be because of ESL?)

I understand from reliable resources that the U.S. is not engaged in two wars, but six.

It is also apparent that the total of Bush's eight years (seven deficit)amounted to far less money than Obama's three years in office.

On the other hand, I do not consider either of these men worthy of being President of the U.S. But since American voters think otherwise they rule. Even if they sink our ship.

At one time, I even had hopes that the Tea Party people might lead us into Jeffersonian politics.

Sigh.

Ralph Nader said after the 2008 election that Obama lacked the ability to grasp the power of the Presidency. Was he ever correct.

You're right irenemiscione...people won't forget this in Nov 2012.

sha na na na, sha na na na, hey hey hey goodbye (Obama)

Wrong song. For you it's Dream On by Aerosmith...

You mean YOU want health care reform to go away. The country doesn't. I don't. The last poll I saw said it was about 50/50, and that's only because of ...... Rush, Glen, Laura, Koch, Savage, Neil, etc. putting out misinformation, like "death panels".

If the right would spend as much time doing something constructive as they do trying to tear down Barack Obama and harming our country, we could actually make some major progress towards rebuilding our place in the world.

The majority voted for Obama, so others need to deal with it, as I had to during Bush's terms. You will have your chance to vote again in 2012. If your candidate gets elected, how would you like to see him being treated the way many of you are treating Obama?

Criticism is one thing, but working to destroy him and the country in the process is despicable any way you look at it.

Big Al-369306

Just look at California we are Broke 26 Billion

and who controls the State Legislature

D E M O C R A T S

Since the mid 1970s they been pooping and taking individual freedoms from Californians.

You can try and blame the other party but they are a minority.

HMMM< I believe the name you are looking for is ARNOLD, GOVENOR OF CA.

Repub.........

As a citizen I did not know that our elected public servants have forced medicare on to "we the people" when we turn 64............So this is why Obama Care can be forced on "we the people." The Republicans know they are going to loose their case in the Supreme Court unless they abolish the legislation forcing every citizen into medicare and medi-cal at the age of 64! Both parties are pimping "we the people" Social Security benefits when we turn 64. Then if "we the people" fail to sign up for Social Security when we turn 64 "we the people" will be penalized 5% every year that we do not sign up for our own benefits...........I guess this is the best pimp game in Washington D.C. Wake up American Citizens.......educate yourselves about your retirement benefits that you have been working for all your life. Our elected public servants are a bunch of thieves and liars and we are focused on the wrong things at this time called the deficit!! They are robbing "we the people" of our Social Security retirement benefits now by forcing us to sign up at 64 so they can take a percentage of our retirement benefits and give it to Medicare and Medical weather we are chronically ill or not; or take away 5% of our retirement benefits because "we the people" sign up after the age of 64. If I am wrong I apologize and stand corrected!!

Here we go again...all liberals are hoodlums. By the way, I haven't seen one rally that was chock full of minorities. Just a lot of crazy people screaming: Government get out of my life out of one side of their mouths while screaming, "Don't touch my medicare and social security". Get real.

No, I didn't. I saw a few old biscuits and some guys chewing tobacco with guns, but no Americans.

Dasvet - clearly you haven't seen the GOP lately. The most disgusting pieces of garbage on the planet and none of them gives a damn about America. The Democrats are working for the country - not against it.

As my lead on this thread states...NONE of them are working for ANYONE but the wealthy...PERIOD. If you believe otherwise, go back to sleep, and stick your head back in the sand...

A plan that puts off the real work of cutting spending is only going to be changed with the next election... In other words if the Dems get control of congress again they will just take all those PROMISED CUTS and get rid of them. So, we have more trillion dollar debt and no cuts afterall.

No one can keep spending and make our economy thrive again - only the Dems think that works - it doesn't...

So is Reid's proposal going to cut spending just like the Medicare Dr. Fix (SGR) did? (not).

The OMB score that said HCR reform would eventually save money was based upon 1. 500b in medicare cuts (that will never happen) 2. double counting of the medicare cuts.. see #1, and implementation of SGR (medicare dr. fix) that requires massive cuts in payments to providers.

FYI the SGR has been shelved many times by congress and each time they do, the future cuts needed get larger.

So as a solid middle class person I do not advocate ANY more taxes for ANYONE as long as:

1. Congress can't seem to cut ANYTHING (I want a Guarantee cuts will be made!!). Start with the already passed SGR, and maybe I will listen.

2. As long as we are giving out BILLIONS in foreign aid, I will not support other Americans paying for it.

Real cuts NOW!! there is nothing wrong with a balance budget amendment... It is exactly what we need!

In the end, if I MUST find something positive I would have to say this. My days at the tribune blog have panned out quite nicely. Have they not? My stated goal to insure the destruction of the republican party and the tea baggers has now been achieved. ; ]

Cheers

Here's Johny

How much should your representative cost?

Yeah, Granny and Grandpa are bomb throwing terrorists????? You are out of your mind, or haven't seen the well-dressed young, black, middle-age and elderly people for the most part at most of the rallies. None of that sixtyish filthy looking people of the extreme left.

Yes, with really intelligent things to say like "keep your government out of my Medicare". That's the T-Party my friend; style not substance. They are willing to blow-up the US economy, and for that matter the world economy if they don't get they're demands...sounds like a terrorist to me!

When they show you who they are...believe them!

With every passing day, my contempt for the Teabaggers grows deeper.

"The bill passed 218-210, with no Democratic support."

I wonder how many of his fellow Republicans Boehner had to threaten to strangle to get that narrow majority!

W. Goin, thanks for the laugh. The only people the democrats are working for are the wealthy union leaders and the lazy. The more people that become dependent on the government for their livelihood, the longer they can stay in power, which is the democrats ultimate goal.

Looks as if the Democrats are now the party of "NO", but I assume that we are going to hear about how the Democrats are standing for something...like the Republicans weren't doing the same thing...

Fred Bastiat - Our kids and grand kids aren't going to give a tinkers damn about the national debt. They're going to care whether or not they will have a job. Whether or not they will be able to have their own family. Whether or not there will be a social safety net there for them if they or their children need it. Why don't you T-Baggers just tell the truth once..."Its all about you!"

When they show you who they are...believe them!

"This House, led by the Republicans, has put every state, city, every university that writes bonds at risk… because of this foolishness," McDermott said. "We need a clean lifting of the debt limit", and why is that Rep. McDermott?

I disagree with Rep. MC Dermott on this point, I feel "The children have been in charge of the candy store too long...something must change...we are spending ourselves into oblivion!

Stop this stupid charade!!! Stop the party crap. Unite as Americans and force our officials to do business. Not just Mr. Boehner, but let's see some serious work product from the Democrats and the President. At least Mr. Boehner is showing up for the debate. He is putting something in writing and trying to sell it to his party. Show us some options from the rest of the govt.....Stop blaming!! Let's get together as a nation and demand that they do their damn job. You people will quarterback us into a major depression if you don't start looking at each other as Americans instead of Democraps and Repukes....How stupid does that sound, really?

If they don't pass something in the next week, maybe 2, we'll get to see an entirely new congress in 2012. They have a bit longer than the Tuesday deadline because revenues exceeded what was expected when the deadline was announced.

Personally I don't see either side about to give much more ground than they already have. The "pro-wealthy" republicans will not raise taxes, and the "pro-poor" democrats will not cut enough spending. Who was supposed to be the party for those of us in the middle-class anyways? I guess with our numbers dwindling every day no one up there even cares about us any more....................I say we unite and form a third party, the Republicrats, a party for the average citizen. Let us see where all the money comes from and where it goes. I'm sure there are enough people out there with enough common sense to see where money being generated needs to increase and money being spent needs to decrease in order to balance the federal budget.

We may not agree on everything, but at least we would have enough sense to pass something in order to save our nation further embarassment.

I'd have more respect for your opinions if you'd not leave out the fact that Republicans spent us into oblivion from 2000 to 2008. I admit, the democrats tend to spend alot, as well. But generally on social programs and not illegal and useless war. If I had to choose, i'd choose the social programs. Much of the spending under Barack Obama has been as a direct result of having to stimulate the economy to save it from collapse and putting the two Bush wars on the books. Now, I again, blame Mr. Obama for spending money in Libya. But at least he has put it in the budget.

When are we going to get over the pointing of fingers and work together? Sadly, as a country, we are so divided that the Congress simply reflects the country that elected them.

And, here's one that will make your eyes roll - I work for local government. I get paid for 40 hours, but consistently work 50 or more hours per week. I am exempt - so no overtime. Many times, when others were warm and dry in their home, I have filled sandbags and deployed them in storm conditions at 2 in the morning to save homes. As a reflection of the people, government needs hard working, qualified people, too. Yes, I've seen lazy public workers...But the same occurs in the private sector. And have you ever worked for elected officials? You'd be surprised at how much tact and patience it takes when you work for these egotists. Nonetheless, I am proud of my work and satisfied with my job.

I still don't get how people talk crap about the tea party being worse than Mr. dead on arrival. I haven't heard one peep out of house dems. Did they try to help at all. If harry has a problem with the bill then he can make corrections and send it back to the house who will have no choice but to pass it. This is all a bunch of bull. Trying to blame everything on someone else.

I have just three questions. How long has the tea party been in Washington?

How long has Harry Reid been there and what has he ever done to try to save our country some money. All he does is talk to the camera and spend money.

So how do you people think we are going to be able to afford anything if the debt continues to rise year after year.

Once again I'm not a Republican, but I do know how to count.

Winkiesixtysix,

Seriously??!! I wish people would get educated before they spew such nonsense. Raising the debt ceiling has nothing to do with any blank check. It's about America being able to pay it's debt. In simple terms, if you take out a loan to buy a car, then you have to make payments on that debt. This entire situation is nothing more than just plain old-fashioned partisan politics on steroids. Republican hatred for President Obama is beyond sanity. In fact, Senator McConnell's stated objective is to "ensure that President Obama is a one-term president." Apparently, he intends to achieve this aim by destroying America's credit rating and ensuring that unnecessary debt due to raised interest rates is added.

THIS WOULD BE BAD FOR EVERYONE!!

Yes I know republicans spend too. My point is it's not the tea parties fault that they came in to Congress with our country 14 trillion dollars in debt. At least they want to fix it, Instead of putting it off year after year. I, for one, am glad to see that at least someone in Congress understands that this can't go on forever. Get over it Dems you've been in office for how long and where are we now. Republicans too. I'll give the tea party some slack for a couple years.

See what happens when they take that lets wait and see attitude, why is it that now it's so Important, why was it not important years ago when these Republicans was giving away our kids future and digging a hole so deep that we will never get out, just how much is enough, so damn greedy now lets see how you people like this mess you've created ....

It doesn't matter this is now and we need to take care of our problems.

That's exactly how we got into this mess. But yeah they are greedy and education is way under funded.

The news today is the risk of a double dip recession.

Let Washington get there books in order and I bet everybody would feel a lot more comfortable. Overseas too.

We do need to reduce our spending to a level we can pay for, but this is not the way to do it. Republicans have a majority in the House, they could have made the budget the only issue over the last six months instead of focusing on gay marriage and abortion. I don't think they really want to fix the problems, they just want to be in charge. They waited until the last minute and made this crisis. It's not Democrats who are refusing to compromise, it's the new batch of Republicans who have decided that "compromise" is now defined as "my way or nothing."

Let's go back to when our economy had actually a surplus. Let's see, that's when George W took office. He inherited an economically healthy USA (which got that way under one of those leftist, socialistic/communistic, pinko types, BRUUHH!!). But, true to his stupidity, George W (with the help of the Hitler-wanna-be, Chaney) quickly surmised that the best way to fix the economy (What is it Broken??) was to enact tax cuts and start a war with IRAQ (I'll grant that the war in Afghanistan was necessary) just to punish Sadam, who was making fun of his daddy.

As the economy improved (at least that's how George W. saw it), the debt ceiling was raised and the economy kept improving--after all, he did cut taxes! As the economy continued to improve, the unemployment rate started to increase. In the eyes of George W., that was a good thing. We'll just raise the debt ceiling again and the economy will keep improving. How do we expedite this economic improvement you ask? Why we'll shrink Government. We will deregulate the banking and housing industry. We will also deregulate Wall Street. Lesser Government is good for the economy. Thus, the economy will keep improving. And the unemployment rate kept rising. The Maddox types started to flourish--scheming brokers and bankers were free to help the economy grow. Bankers and brokers, left to themselves started to play "line my pockets" with bogus loans. And the economy kept improving. Unethical behavior was the order of the day at Wall Street, after all, with no regulatory Government to get in the way, all the selfish brokers were free to help the economy grow, RIGHT!?

After eight years of the economy growing, someone whispered into George W's ear that if he didn't get his head out of his a$$, the economy was going to tank, worst than it did in the 1930s. But how can this be? After all, he cut taxes, he deregulated all of those industries, he shrank Government. I know! Let's raise the debt ceiling again—that always seems to work. However, the little birdie once again whispered in George's ear: If you don't do something to stimulate this economy, the entire country is toast!! So George W, true to his less-Government belief, imitated the biggest subsidies programs since the Great Depression. Remember that this is a conservative president that doesn't believe in Government intervention. Since it took eight years for Mr. Bush to grow the economy to the point of complete melt-down (an economy that went from a surplus to a deficit of over $10T) he could not stick around to execute on his subsidies programs. That was left to the poor Socialist/Communist that came after him. This poor schmuck gets stuck with all the work and all the blame of trying to reverse all of that economic growth brought about by eight year of incompetent economic policies under George W—the hero of the religious, right (remember, George W spoke directly to God!).

So, this new socialist/communist president begins to execute on the programs that George W initiated and immediately, those of narrow mind and short memory place all the blame on him. Since this new socialist/communist type didn't speak directly to God, he is worthless, and therefore deserves all the wrath of the true believers. Now how do help this worthless socialist/communist solve our problems?! Let's send to congress more of the religious, right wing nut jobs (that don't know beans about economic policies or how to run a Government) so they can stall any and all attempts at resolving our problems. First and foremost, no reversing of George's tax reductions—after all it was those tax reductions that got us into our current, great economic situation. We must continue that process. Second, no raising of the debt limit. George W raised it enough times such that we no longer need to do it. Third, we must reduce Government further by removing all regulatory agencies that serve no purpose other than to stop those bankers, CEOs, brokers, etc., from helping themselves, err, helping the economy grow. Fourth, let's eliminate Government control of Social Security and Medicare. These programs need to be under the control of the bankers and Wall Street types who will see to it that the funds are around for their benefit, as they grow older—line their pockets. And last but not least, let's reduce Government by enacting laws that prohibit abortions, gay marriages, collective bargaining, and any other civil right that hinders the economic growth. SMALLER GOVT, After ALL!

So, have I missed anything is my short summation of where we are and how we got here?

Here we go again...all liberals are hoodlums. By the way, I haven't seen one rally that was chock full of minorities. Just a lot of crazy people screaming: Government get out of my life out of one side of their mouths while screaming, "Don't touch my medicare and social security". Get real.

Comedy central try outs....

Harry Reid does not want to compromise.

Trust me I don't like the way they (the Republicans) did it either. I don't even like them. But also saying that it is dead on arrival only makes things prolong as well. I don't believe they will make any type of meaningful legislation in the end anyway. Other than just raising the debt cieling.

I think the a lot of the reason that we are having money problems is that the politicians don't understand what goes on in the different departments of government and pass laws that are unusefull and a lot of the times just hampers the way that these departments are run. They don't understand what is really usefull to society. Thet just keep passing more laws that make everything more and more complex.

And they give stuff away to gain votes.

If allowing the liberals to spend us into oblivion is the compromise you are asking for, then thank God that some have stood up and at least tried to put some financial sense into place. If spending 40% more than is taken in revenues, constantly, isn't a disaster then somebody's calculator needs new batteries.

I think it is time to get these fools out of office and replace them with people how give a damn about this country. Enough is enough and stop all the bull@!$%# right now. I, like most Americans, are tired of BOTH playing politics with our future. Here you have it ladies and gentlemen, the demise of our country. This is no longer a Democrat or republican issue anymore. This is an American issue. Get rid of everyone in Washington and vote in people who have an America first approach. Both parties are equally responsible.

StopTheLiesNOW "OK --- so if Bush wasn't responsible then how is Obama responsible now?"

Obama signed the anti-business, anti-growth, anti-jobs bills that Nancy and Harry forced upon us.

Any other questions? By the way, since a President can only sign or veto bills that reach his desk, what legislation did Bush sign or veto that makes you think HE was responsible?

ROY WILSON-336103,

You're right. I do not condone collapsing of posts. Everyone has a right to post what's on their mind, no matter how ridiculous, insignificant, irrational, or idiotic it may be. So keep posting your stuff. It makes for very amusing reading.

Finally... fix it pass it and then get to the paydown of our debt or nobody will be on welfare.

Harry Reid does not want to compromise.

Are you even watching what is going on? Or are you trying to convince yourself that it is not the republicans on the verge of @!$%#ing over the country?

Let's be honest about raising the debt limit. The main reason we need such a big increase is because of the HUGE spending increases under Obama.

In all 8 of Bush's years (2001 - 2008), he ran up only $2.006Trillion in Deficits, but Obama will have run up $4.3 Trillion in Deficits in only his first 3 years (2009 - 2011).

For those who doubt this, the following link to Obama's own White House site verifies that this is true;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

OK ... the minority party's stated goals are to privatize schools, privatize social security, privatize medicare, privatize the military ... and what else ... anything else that will lead to smaller government. So, to continue the overtaking of the public sector by the private sector, I recommend privatizing Congress. We are partway there already ... it wouldn't take much. The surprise is ... you have accomplished your smaller federal government ... now watch your generous health and retirement benefits become privatized, oh my ... and perhaps your jobs can be outsourced to your favorite lobbyist, smaller government, hooray ... !! You can contribute to smaller government right now ... just reduce your salary ... and cut your staffs by 1/2 ... how are we doing so far? sounds smaller to me.

The TEANUTS are sick losers that are out to destroy America, wake up America.

The republicans voted no to a bill that would have closed the loopholes on any corporations that shipped American jobs overseas.

Republicans refuse to end American taxpayer paid multibillion dollar subsidies to oil companies that make multibillion dollar profits each quarter.

The republicans refuse to have the rich pay their fair share in taxes. Billionaires are paying approx. 17.7% in taxes on their incomes, the middle class is paying approx 30% in taxes on their incomes.

Bush was instrumental in the housing bubble. He instructed Fannie/freddie to give loans to people, especially minorities that should not have been given a loan for a tent. Look it up.

Bush's budget looked so much better because his trillion dollar wars (in the wrong place) were never included in it. Obama has the wars in his budget as they should have been from the start.

The debt we are paying now is from trillion dollar wars, unfunded Medicare part D prescription drug benefits (that were a sweet deal for the pharmaceutical companies), tax breaks for the rich during a war.

What anti business, anti growth, anti jobs bill did Obama sign?

More republican propaganda.

Confused I think that was partly because Clinton did something to incourage banks to start giving out loans to people that screwed them with variable interest rates that they thought would never reach and to people who could flat out not afford it. Causing this big housing bubble.But hey everyone had a job. This cool thing called the internet was beginning to get big too. Now we are here. When Mr. Clintons and the banks shady operations finally collapsed. George Dub is no better just sayin. Greed and vanity.

So now the Republicans have passed TWO bills to increase the debt limit, versus none by the Democrats, but instead of debating and amending them to something more to their liking, they simply IGNORE them, and they still claim that the Republicans are the problem?

What's wrong with this picture?????????????????????

President Obama has a plan, "Republicans shall change their votes and do as they’re told, or the United States defaults, doesn’t make payments, doesn’t make military service payments, doesn’t make Social Security payments".

So there it is. Obama will default until the Republicans are voted out (2014).

confused-3012211 "ROY WILSON-336103, You're right. I do not condone collapsing of posts....So keep posting your stuff. It makes for very amusing reading."

I can see why you might get 'confused' by facts, since they don't agree with your pre-conceived notions.

Feel free to use Obama's White House links to verify my FACTS.

What are they doing lib50.

The same thing they have been doing forever.

Aren't you used to it yet.

Post collapsers are cowards. Stand up for yourself and lay off the clicker.

WOW! I MUST HAVE STRUCK A NERVE---------------------

LOL. REALLY, so congress screwed up the economy and Bush was innocent of all charges???

OK --- so if Bush wasn't responsible then how is Obama responsible now?

HEY, have you noticed how everything has turned to @!$%# since the GOP got the House back??? HMMMMMMMMM.

You people are so full of it. LOL.

The T party zealots have ensured that the Republican party will be defunct for the next several generations.

For all your blather neo-cons blaming this on Obama for offering his party additional concessions during the Boner / Obama dialogue that resulted in Boner walking out like a child... and not returning the President's phone calls either... LOL.

Get this through your head, even if the original exchange had not been met with a counter the Tea Brains would not have signed off on it...

IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR SHOOTING BLANKS.

Any other questions? By the way, since a President can only sign or veto bills that reach his desk, what legislation did Bush sign or veto that makes you think HE was responsible?

Uh, the fact that he was Commander-And-Chief has something to do wiht my belief that he was responsible. I'm I pretty well educated guy and I'm not up on all the legislating passed during this period. Somehow, I have a problem taking the word of some guy in a trailer sucking up SS while at the same time clearly living his life on a forum

Again Roy, instead of recognizing the outcome of the permanent command chain, where accountability ends - you spend your time assimilating your own version of reality from the piece you like.

Ted 050247 "Republicans refuse to end American taxpayer paid multibillion dollar subsidies to oil companies"

A subsidy is defined as "a direct pecuniary aid furnished by a government to a private industrial undertaking, a charity organization, or the like"

Can you provide any real examples of 'subsidies' to oil companies that amounted to 'multibillions'?

Whatever one's opinion on who is to blame for the current economic mess and complete degeneration of the political problem solving process into partisan politics, there are some IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE FACTS:
1. Obama has already amassed one of the LARGEST REELECTION WAR-CHESTS IN CAMPAIGN HISTORY FOR 2012.
2. It is OBAMA'S FERVENT WISH TO POSTPONE DIFFICULT ECONOMIC DECISIONS UNTIL AFTER HIS (Presumably Successful) RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN.
3. His MISERLY words at a Chicago event this past year when the microphone was inadvertently left on and he said something to the effect that "they think I'm stupid but they won't get any cuts by me...." something to that effect . ...take a listen to that footage and you will see what Boehner is up against. Obama has apparently been simply lying and playing partisan politics hoping to get his tight-fisted hands on other people's money so he can redistribute it himself w/Pelosi and Reid.
4. Timothy Geithner has announced he wishes to LEAVE OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION ASAP AFTER THIS DEBACLE.
5. Who will be next Ben Bernanke?? And all this is the Republican Party's fault? NOT TRUE! The Teapartier's are merely a response to Obama, Reid and Pelosi and their policies.

Not one of the prouder moments for the GOP. Only $917B in cuts over 10 years? That's less than $92B a year, only about 6.5% of the deficit...only about 2% of the actual annual spending. Pathetic bunch of clowns...

Roy, no he cannot give one. He wont even try.

The T party zealots have ensured that the Republican party will be defunct for the next several generations.

I'd like to believe this but clearly there are a lot of stupid people in this country. So, I don't know...

Roy, no he cannot give one. He wont even try.

OH - you got me! LOL.

Can you provide any real examples of 'subsidies' to oil companies that amounted to 'multibillions'?

Stop acting like you'll listen. It's just silly.

You got yourself.

Yeah, right.. it's REPULICANS destroying this country. LOL What a joke!

BTW, if the Tea Party was truly made of of far right extremists, they would have chosen a name a little more threatening than TEA PARTY I think! hahaha You people are freaking morons.

I mostly cashed out a couple weeks ago, counting on the fact that our leaders are too incompetent to lead, and after next Tuesday the markets are going to crash hard.

Looking forward to stocks going on sale! Maybe even fire sale...

Time to embrace the horror my friends. There's plenty of money to be made in financial collapse and the downgrading of the U.S. credit rating. Hey, at least we'll still be less risky than Greece :)

This is ridiculous, The Pres. says he wants a bipartisan bill, but yet does not even listens to what the Repub's, say. The Senate does the same. If it is not to their, I mean the Pres's liking the trash it. Then accuse the Repub's of not playing fair. Its time the Dem's quit playing games and go to work. We are in dept beyond our means. Stop wasteful spending. Bring the factory's back to our country. Make the oil companies and the other millionaire industries pay their share of Taxes like the rest of us. Get rid of the health insurance scam Obama created. Instead fix the Medical problem where Dr. make $10.000 an hr. Or charging $100.00 for a $1.00 pill.

Dasvet

I guess you didn't get the sarcasm. What other things do you think you don't get? lol.

I'm curious, do you understand the following paragraph? Or, like Roy, do you just pick things out that make sense to you and pretend to understand what's going on...

Again Roy, instead of recognizing the outcome of the permanent command chain, where accountability ends - you spend your time assimilating your own version of reality from the pieces you like.

That is how depressions happen azdad. Dont encourage.

Here's an 'Inconvenient Truth' that's guaranteed to get 'collapsed', with full links to Obama's government sites to verify the facts;

Who's responsible for the Budget Deficits and the Debt?

While it's tempting to blame the President for Budget Deficits, it's actually the responsibility of Congress to pass a spending budget, which establishes the amount of the Deficit each year and any required borrowings on the Debt. So what does the record show, based on who controlled Congress over the last 30 years;

DEFICITS ($7.304 Trillion)

Total Deficits when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $5.022 Trillion.
Total Deficits when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $1.219 Trillion.
Total Deficits when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.063 Trillion.

NEW DEBT ($12.654Trillion = 93.3% of all the Debt in our History) (a)

Total New Debt when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $7.623 Trillion.
Total New Debt when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $3.260 Trillion.
Total New Debt when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.771 Trillion.

Spin it all you want, but these are the FACTS

(a) – Contrary to popular belief, the National Debt increases far more than the Deficits for each year.

Sources - Democrats controlled Congress from 1987 – 1994, and from 2007 – 2010. Republicans controlled Congress from 1995 – 2000, and from 2003 – 2006. There was a split Congress from 1980 – 1986 and for 2001 & 2002. The government site to verify National Debt increases is;

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

The government site to verify the Deficits for each year is;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

I'll let the facts speak for themselves as to which Party is more fiscally responsible.

I am not crazy for either party and first time post any potical comments online. Both parties have been responsible for today's mess we have, although Dem might have been a bit more responsible. Besides the US government, over spending and borrowing are norm for many Americans that is the reason why we are in recession now the first place. For political reason, it is very hard to expect Dem will cut a dim in any budget (they will lose their base right away). If no cut, that means tax more, conservative, upper middle class and businesses all kinds will rebel against Rep. The way the US depending upon borrowing money to operate the government and to feed many parasites who are sucking the blood of our country is like a drug addict, when run out of money, they feel the urge to borrow more (not make more or live to their mean). It is not going to be easy for the government as well as for all those Americans who have all those entitlements from the government to give up their habit just like the drug addict. In order to get the country health again (or get the drug addict clean and health again), it is to take away the drug or insist on borrowing limit. it will be painful. No pain no gain! The pain is short term. But if we continue to addict to borrowing or dosing, there will be no future for this country, even if this generation will not live long enough to suffer the consequence, our son and grandson will. Unfortunately, many of us, particularly those politicians refuse to face the reality. Everyone just want to be the hero to solve the crisis today and leave the mess tomorrow for someone else.

Another thought, in case the Congress deadlocks on raising debt ceiling, crisis comes as many of you predict or fear, which party will be benefited from it more? Remember the Dem motto : never let a crisis pass unused. So, I think Dem will be benefited from it more than Rep. So, deep down to it, Dem might feel less urge to have the bill passed, no matter how they act like now. That is why the Rep feel more heat then Dem now.

Here ya go Roy:

Oil companies keep subsidies

WASHINGTON -- After a full day of debate in which senators agreed that gas was too expensive and almost nothing else, a Democratic proposal to strip $2 billion in annual tax subsidies from five major oil companies failed Tuesday.

The vote was on a procedural question - whether to bring the bill to the floor for debate. Such motions require 60 votes to pass so while the bill earned a majority, 52 to 48, it still fell short. (Every Democrat voted for it except Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mark Begich of Alaska while all Republicans except Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine voted against it.)

Democrats said the vote delays, but does not end, efforts to change tax law that would disqualify Chevron, Exxon Mobil, Conoco Phillips, Shell and BP from pocketing $21 billion in subsidies over the next 10 years.

ALL YOU PARTISAN HACKS ARE LOST IN YOUR PARTY POLITICS!

You sit here and "debate" the House plan and the alleged Senate plan.

IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Boehner's plan, which passed the House 218-210 with no Democratic support, would have raised the debt ceiling $900 billion, cut spending $917 billion over a decade and call for a balanced-budget amendment before the limit could be raised again, presumably next year.

Senate Democrats had vowed to block it in favor of Reid's longer-term $2.7 trillion debt limit increase with about $2.2 trillion in spending cuts.

GARBAGE! Both of them.

Standard & Poor's has told us we need to cut at least $4 TRILLION Dollars in Deficit spending over 10 years or our bond rating will be lowered. Guess what?

NEITHER OF THESE PLANS COME CLOSE!

What. Did you think they were just kidding? This is in conjunction with the IMF recommendation. This is just political posturing by the Republicans AND Democrats. S&P states we need to come up with savings of about 7.5 percent of our GDP to actually stabilize our debt-to-GDP ratio. We are at 9% of GDP. In order to get to the 7.5% we need to cut $1 TRILLION Dollars a year,,,A YEAR!

Our bond rating WILL be lowered. We won't default but we will lose our coveted rating. This will send interest rates skyrocketing. Markets will crash. This has been inevitable for decades. Ever since we went off the gold standard we have been on a drunken sailor spending spree. This is what happens when you take off collateral restraints for a government.

I hope you all have bought a lot of gold. Your 401k's will soon be 101k's,,,,again.

Did you prepare?

I doubt it.

George Washington Says - BTW, if the Tea Party was truly made of of far right extremists, they would have chosen a name a little more threatening than TEA PARTY I think! hahaha You people are freaking morons.

Well, they were calling themselves the Teabaggers - until they figured out what that meant.

StopTheLiesNOW "Can you provide any real examples of 'subsidies' to oil companies that amounted to 'multibillions'?...........Stop acting like you'll listen."

I'm listening, but the silence is deafening. Of course, when you're stumped, a diversion is in order, isn't it?

Here's the latest CBO numbers on the sources of the deficit:

U.S. National Debt

July 26, 2011

RoyWilson - you're refuted.

Jesus, I dont' have time for this but you're just too irratating...

What is your point here, that Dems are bigger spender than GOP? Sure, I'll agree with that.

I have no problem recognizing this problem.

Now, let's recognize what you will not. That supply-side fiscal policy as implemented by the GOP over the past decades has resulted in wealth and income disparity not witnessed since the G Depression. There's a big clue right there!

Clinton reversed many significant economic trends, that Reagan and the Bush boys perpetuated, that increasingly disenfranchised the middle-class and working poor.

The welathty do not create jobs! DEMAND creates a need for supply and this creates jobs. It starts with demand... how anyone can argue this is beyond me.

This is a waste of time. You'll come back with some BS statistics taken out of content (graphs are a beautiful thing but I understand whey you never use them), unadjusted, etc.

Good luck with all that.

Even $4 trillion was just a small start, and they couldn't even agree on that.

Google the Bloomberg article titled "Why the debt crisis is even worse than you think", published today.

The problem with focusing on our measly little $14.3 trillion national debt is that it is backward-looking -- these are expenses from the past, which fell short of revenues from the past.

The real alarm bells ring when you look at our projected deficits going forward, and calculate the shortfall relative to future revenues. This is more than a $200 trillion problem in the coming decades.

When some of us who are middle-aged but far from retirement remember back to the good old days of 2011, we will get a grim chuckle over that fact that way back in 2011 the deficit was "only" $14.3 trillion, and our politicians actually played this game of chicken over such small amounts as a trillon vs. two trillion vs. four trillion.

It will seem like school kids arguing about who owes who a nickel...

RealAmericansFirst -

NO, I don't believe it!!! Roy W's stats were misleading and his logic terminally flawed!!!???

lol.

Remember when Americans said we can do anything. But now tea bagging republicans want us to believe we cant do anything. Because were broke. Who has that ever stopped in this country of credit? And who gives a crap about owing money?

You borrow more and you pay for it and pay what you already owe because this country is credit. You know think about this. In YOUR city the streets suck. They are not being fixed. Who's gonna pay for that if you dont pay taxes? Are ANY and I mean ANY rich people offering to pony up that cash to do that for you? Hmmm. In fact are ANY rich people at all offering to pay for education health care anything? Hmmm. So who's gonna do it and how?

Republicans had ten years. They wrecked the country and by extension the world. NOW they act as though they alone can fix it. BUT they need YOUR programs to do it. Why don't THEY pay for the mistakes THEY made? Seems fair. Think about it. Think about it. ; ]

Cheers

.

Roy-here's one-if you look there are many more links to check out.

I'm surprised you have not been following this.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/634212/us_uncut:_end_big_oil_subsidies!

Now I want to know why the Republicans want to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and continue giving multibillion dollar subsidies to oil companies that make multibillion dollar profits each quarter.

I want to know why I pay a higher percentage in taxes on my income than Warren Buffet the billionaire does.

Is this fair?

You see republican tea baggers have NO ideas. ZERO period. They just want to cut cut cut cuttt everything and borrow from SSI the only still solvent institution of government. How stupid are you? Really? Any ideas on that?

Cheers

Hey, Roy - turn up your hearing aid. Here's just one example of how they're giving away your hard-earned taxpayer money to oil companies:

New York Times
July 3, 2010

As Oil Industry Fights a Tax, It Reaps Subsidies

At the same time, BP was reaping sizable tax benefits from leasing the rig. According to a letter sent in June to the Senate Finance Committee, the company used a tax break for the oil industry to write off 70 percent of the rent for Deepwater Horizon, a deduction of more than $225,000 a day since the lease began.

[A]n examination of the American tax code indicates that oil production is among the most heavily subsidized businesses, with tax breaks available at virtually every stage of the exploration and extraction process.

There are thousands and thousands of these. Go look (and listen).

RealAmericansFirst

Well, they were calling themselves the Teabaggers - until they figured out what that meant.

LMAO!

Obviously you don't know what it means. The Teabagger, as you so love to call them, is the one offering the "bag" (you know what I mean, right?) The Teabaggee, you, is the one who receives the "bag".

I hope this clears up your obvious giddy confusion.

mowdy5gs

,,,and borrow from SSI the only still solvent institution of government.

You mean like Clinton did to give the illusion of his alleged "surplus"?

There is more money in the American economy today than there was in 2007. (See Corporate profits have recovered, but job market still depressed) The question is, where is it going? Not to workers any more.

Corporate tax revenues are down to 9% of all federal revenue, their lowest percentage in American history. 60% of American corporations don't pay any taxes at all.

And the top personal income tax rate is at its lowest level since the 1931.

But payroll taxes are now up to 36% of federal revenue.

What are the federal government's sources of revenue?

And here's a great chart showing how America's tax burden has been shifted off to working people over time:

Sources of federal revenue, Fiscal 1950-2008

Corporations are recording record profits while sitting on over $1.9 TRILLION in cash. But NONE of it's going to workers:

Change in corporate profits and number of jobs in the U.S. since the start of the recession

BOTTOM LINE: We can't afford corporate welfare any more.

If there is no raise in taxes on the rich/corporations with closing of the tax loopholes and ending of the subsidies to these corporations to raise revenues then the democrats in both houses of congress should not sign these bills.

There appears to be questionable policy making by both sides imo. The republiconservateabaggers want to take us back to when Jesus was a boy and the democrats want to compromise by allowing them to take us back to the early 1900s..... and have the poor, elderly and middleclass etc pay for the previlege.....LOL

It is time to just pass a clean debt ceiling bill period, to get that out of the way for the next couple years.

These moves by these folks in Washington is all about making the Bush tax cuts for the rich/corporation permanent. It is not about lowering the deficit as not getting rid of the Bush era tax cuts which is helping to cause the deficit in the first place as we do not have enough revenues coming into the govt coffers.

The monies have already been spent..... now it is time to raise the debt limit to cover what has already been spent....

If it was about lowering the deficit they would simply raise taxes on these folks who were the receipient of the Bush era largess and the bail out packages and who are still profiting from it while the rest of us suffer.

Instead all this red herring drama to make it not so obvious that these folks want to get rid of social security and all the other public safety nets or to privatize them imo.

This waiting until the 11th hour is probably so they can ok a budget that is probably loaded down with or slip in all sort of attachment giving corporate america the ability to mine for minerals in the Grand Canyon, pollute our air and waters, frack us to death, sell off our country for pennies on the dollar or for free.

Perhaps when this is all over we may find that some attachment to defund many agencies that protect our air, land and water, education etc was signed into law that only the folks that attached it knew about.

Social Security, Medicare and other safety nets should not be touched nor should our public lands be sold or leased off and allowed to be polluted either imo.

Rant done......

PS, If there is no help for the masses including the present children and grandchildren now, there will be no future generations to leave any debt to...... because they will never be born, as no one will be able to afford to have children....... See the problem????

Signed..... Disgusted N Annoyed..... Enough Already, USA

MR BOEHNER, MCCONNELL, CANTOR, RYAN, TEABAGGERS IN CONGRESS.........WHERE ARE THE JOBS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE CREATED IF THE RICH KEPT THEIR BUSH ERA TAX CUTS....... THE RICH GOT THE CONTINUATION OF THE CUTS IN DECEMBER 2010, AND STILL NO JOBS CREATION, ONLY CONTINUED JOB CUTS HERE IN THE USA BY THESE VERY SAME CORPORATIONS WHO ARE ROLLING IN THE DOUGH, AND CREATING JOBS ABROAD/OVERSEAS!!!!!!!!!!!

markmich "S&P states we need to come up with savings of about 7.5 percent of our GDP to actually stabilize our debt-to-GDP ratio. We are at 9% of GDP. In order to get to the 7.5% we need to cut $1 TRILLION Dollars a year,,,A YEAR!"

Our GDP is projected to be about $14.9 Trillion for 2011.
Obama has projected our National Debt at $15.476 Trillion by the end of this year.
That makes our Debt to GDP ratio at 104%, not 9%.

You might be referring to our Deficit ratio, which should be at about 3% of GDP to be considered 'sustainable'. Since Obama's Budget projects the Deficit for this year at $1.645 Trillion, that makes the Deficit ratio at 110% of GDP, the current level of Greece, which is considered a hopeless debt failure.

The Democrats are not serious about ANY real cuts in spending, but will 'demonize' the Republicans for trying.

Scary, isn't it.

My theory is that Obama sees his reelection prospects as very dim, and with the economy and unemployment expected to be dismal next year, he may think that letting the economy falter from a 'default' just might save him - IF he can pin it on the Republicans.

It would be a risky gamble, but that might be all he has left. He certainly has not offered up a single viable plan to avoid a default, and the Democratic Senate has not done so either, while the Republican House has actually PASSED two bills to increase the debt limit, which the Democratic Senate won't even debate or offer amendments.

Gee, I wonder where the problem is????????????????

markmich - Well, I don't want any part of the Teabaggers bag. Either way.

Is that what they're trying to choke America with? I thought it was just left-over Birch Society nonsense.

And you don't know much history - the SS trust funds have been counted in the General Fund since Lyndon Johnson, not Bill Clinton.

Fred Bastiat--thanks for the long discursive section on how the Tea Party Express (just got a phone call from them yesterday) thrives in areas such as Oklahoma.

Here's another little trifle for you to chew on--in the state of Oklahoma, high school seniors (who had theoretically just passed government classes) were given a truncated version of the same test that immigrants take to be made citizens. Those students averaged a 30%.

People in some states are much easier to dupe because they are poorly educated, especially about government. These are people who think that the Founding Fathers were all "Christians" like they are (nope), that the US was founded as a "Christian" nation (nope), that the nation was originally deeply religious and has only recently become "secular" (nope), that students cannot pray in schools (yes they can), and so forth.

People in some states learn their "civics" in churches--and these churches don't do a particularly good job at teaching the fundamentals of how our country works. Such people do not realize that if "spending" is cut, that they will lose all that money that they paid into Social Security, they will lose all that money they paid in for Medicare, their children will not get Pell Grants or even be able to attend public schools, and so forth. Basically, they don't realize that they'll be in the same situation that poor people were in during the latter 1800s and early 1900s (when people starved in the streets if they lost their jobs, the elderly froze to death in the winter or died of heat prostration, and when little children were thrown away like garbage because their parents could not feed them).

While it is true that the budget needs fixing, blindly cutting one's nose off to spite one's face is not a particularly good idea. It would help if the Tea Party Express faithful actually understood how the country functions--maybe they could help come up with an actual solution.

Funny how we all did just fine in the 90s, paying the higher Clinton-era taxes, but now after 10 years of a "temporary" tax cut that played a big part in these deficits, so many people are up in arms at the idea that some of us -- those of us who can more easily manage it -- might have to pay more in taxes.

Nobody is asking for more from our young people working for minimum wage. Nobody is asking for more from middle class families making less than $100k a year.

And quite honestly, most of the so-called wealthy (who don't always feel so wealthy) aren't exactly screaming bloody murder if they have to go from a 33% bracket back to a 36% bracket, or from 36% back to 39%.

For some of us, it just means cutting back on the percentage of our income that gets invested, so we don't have to make difficult lifestyle changes.

And by the way, no matter what anyone says, I've never met a businessman who makes expansion/contraction decisions based on his tax rate. When demand for your product goes up, you expand so you can grab those extra sales. When demand falls, you lay people off, cut back and try to hang on until things get better.

As long as the marginal tax rate is less than 100%, it always pays to satisfy your customers and not intentionally turn them away -- maximizing sales also maximizes profits, no matter what percentage of those profits get paid in taxes.

Taxes don't materially affect business decisions. This is the truth that the GOP doesn't want you to know.

RoyWilson: My theory is that Obama sees his reelection prospects as very dim

Name ONE Republican who you think can beat him. Just one.

ROY WILSON-336103

Sorry, I guess I didn't explain it right. Yes, we need to get to 7.5% of our Deficit which is what S&P's is demanding.
None of these partisan whacko's understand that we are headed for the correction we should have undergone in 2008.
TARP should have never happened. The $timulu$ should have never been passed, it was a crony paybacks at its best. GM and Chrysler shareholders were summarilly raped of their preferred shares and instead the unions benefitted.
And many of these people believe we will somehow survive this economic Armageddon.
God help them all.

Ted 050247 "Roy-here's one-if you look there are many more links to check out."

I looked at your site, but it does not pass the 'subsidy' test. Allowing oil companies to deduct legitimate business costs is not a 'subsidy', any more than letting you write off the interest on your home mortgage is a 'subsidy' to the average homeowner. Every business in the world is allowed to deduct business expenses against income to determine 'taxable' income. Many of these so-called 'subsidies' are also nothing but tax 'deferrals, which means that the taxes will be paid in the future, just not right now.

A true 'subsidy' is a direct payment from the government, sort of like those who get welfare.

RealAmericansFirst "Name ONE Republican who you think can beat him. Just one."

The 'generic' Republican beats him easily, according to the pollsters.

RealAmericansFirst

the SS trust funds have been counted in the General Fund since Lyndon Johnson, not Bill Clinton.

But there IS a Trust Fund. It's just included in the General Fund as part of the three government accounting methods. The unfunded liabilities proves the Trust Funds existence. However, contrary to Chucky Schumer, there is no solvency until 2037. Otherwise we wouldn't need to rely on an increase in our debt ceiling to pay the recipients.

Clinton and every president since LBJ has used the OASDI funds to "adjust" their budgets and Debt.

markmich "ROY WILSON-336103 TARP should have never happened. The $timulu$ should have never been passed, it was a crony paybacks at its best. GM and Chrysler shareholders were summarilly raped of their preferred shares and instead the unions benefitted."

I agree with you on the '$timulus' bill, but I'm not sure about TARP. Only about $380 Billion of the $700 Billion TARP was ever used, and virtually all of that has been repaid, so I don't think it is a major factor, and it may have saved our economy.

I agree with you on the GM and Chrysler 'bankruptcies', because it was all about protecting the unions, and not about the legal rights of the stockholders. The Unions got the 'Gold Mine', and the stock & bond holders got the 'shaft'.

I wouldn't ever buy a GM or Chrysler product in the future because of the government's systematic 'pillaging' of investors rights, and anyone that would be foolish enough to buy stock in those companies needs to have their heads examined. What's that old saying about "Fooled once, shame on them, but fooled twice, shame on ME".

markmich

Very good point.

Since the Social Security Trust Fund has a surplus of about $2.7 Trillion, there is no reason that the government cannot take a tiny part of that surplus to pay the benefits in August. If Obama withholds any payments to Social Security recipients, it will be purely for partisan political reasons.

By the way - If a private company tried to use 'trust' funds for their business operations, they would be thrown in jail and the keys thrown away, but it seems to be fine for the government to do it. Unfortunately, the ones that started this 'Ponzi Scheme' are long since dead (LBJ).

RealAmericansFirst

Name ONE Republican who you think can beat him. Just one.

LMAO! Are you kidding me? With todays economic growth numbers of 1.3% in the second quarter and the 1st quarters revised numbers of 0.4% PeeWee herman can beat this buffoon of a president.

I dread seeing last quarters revision next quarter, we may actually have a negative growth rate.

I bet you Liberal Progressives are real proud of these numbers.

Or is this Bush's fault again?

ROY ROY ROY.... there you go again, telling the truth. I love THE ROY.

Now as for you sky-is-falling liberal kooks, the House Republicans, as useless as they usually are seem to be the only one's in DC actually working on actual law that has actual details.

Obama has nothing, lies about wanting to compromise, as all he promises Republicans are veto's. How in any conceivable view is this compromise?

Harry Reid has a crap bill that no one wants, and does virtually nothing, as it takes credit for $1 trillion in war savings that is yet to appear. More sleight of hand, more DC nonsense.

Neither bill accomplishes much, but conservatives know that they are going to get nothing done until Obama and the Senate is back in conservative hands.

Bottom line is that no one is acting like a grown up except for Ron Paul and a few folks in his circle. They know that this house of cards must be deconstructed.

Time for the rupubs to go home and take a vacation. It is clear that even though they passed a terrible bill, that was pretty much what the dems wanted, the repubs are wasting their time. The thing to do is let the dems cut current spending by $1 trillion, which is what should happen without the government having the ability to borrow. I'm still waiting for the dem proposal. There's been nothing from the Senate, nothing from the dems in the House and nothing from the Prez. How clear do they have to make it that they want to not borrow any more money. Sounds great to me! The sad thing is that the Prez would probably choose to default on the debt, not pay social security to seniors and not pay our military before he would not pay the pork to his socialist supporters.

So what REALLY happens if August 2nd comes with no agreement?

Here's my guess;

1 - The Treasury Department will say "Surprise, we found some additional funds, so we have a new date of ????????????"

2 - If no 'deal' is struck at that new date, payments to bondholders will be given top priority, but lots of government departments will be 'furloughed'. Obama is not so foolish as to withhold Social Security payments and pay others first, especially since he supposedly has $2.7 Trillion in surplus Social Security Trust Funds to draw upon.

3 - The bond markets will have a temporary 'fit', but will soon settle down when they realize that there are few other viable options for their funds, and that defaulting on the debt is the LAST thing the government would do.

4 - Normalcy will return after the political 'gamesmanship' plays out, and the parties come to an agreement on cutting the debt and raising tax revenues.

5 - We all go back to our 'stupor' of ignorance about what's really happening in the world.

6 - I move back to Costa Rica, where the climate and beaches are great, and the pace of life is slow and easy.

ROY WILSON-336103

TARP was the usual reactionary result of all the "economists" when their Keynesian philosophies are proven horribly wrong again.

Had TRUE free-market forces been allowed to distinguish the winners and losers we would have had a much harder drop in the markets and some more global hysteria but then the other "solvent" banks would have moved in and cleaned up the mess the Keynesian's caused.

Of course the Paul Krugmans, Ben Bernanke's, Henry Paulson's and Timmy Geithner's of the world panicked and in their usual knee-jerk response decided the government should step in. The result is still out-of-control banking, despite the alleged "Financial Reforms", with continued massive bonuses, no lending, NINJA loans continuing, mortgage Robo-Signings and other abuses.

TARP was passed by the Republicans, markmich - October 3, 2008. You really don't know history, do you? Even just from 2008.

Daily Number: Was TARP Passed Under Bush or Obama? - Pew Research

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

George Satayana

And, unfortunately for the GOP, the "generic" Republican is not running for President.

Just a bunch of loonies.

markmich

Finally, someone that understands how things really work. If 'too big to fail', especially AIG, had been allowed to fail, and the economy was allowed to tank and wipe out the 'driftwood' in one fell swoop, the 'recession' would have been deep, but short, and the rebound would have been historic.

Instead, we did what FDR did in the 1930s - Drag the recession out for many years (9 years for FDR) in a failed attempt to 'mitigate' the collapse, and make sure the 'recovery' is slow and painful.

I am not sure any minds were changed here tonight. Yikes. What a lot of anger and hot air.

The problem right now in Washington is who is going to get blamed, and by how much, and who gets to ride in and save the day with the plan that finally gets approved. So Reid is believing he is the knight that will save the day, or actually save Obama, and thus he won't even consider any plan the republicans put forth. Notice, no republican senator is getting an opportunity to work with Reid on a plan. Each party closes the door to the other. They both know how to knife each other and that is the focus.

The Tea Party was put in office to do exactly what they are doing. They aren't allowing themselves to be groomed and changed into a clone of the other republicans. This must be highly annoying to the likes of people like McCain that served while this country racked up debt. Most of those serving are responsible for this debt and yet the new kids on the block are feeling the most heat even though they were not serving and can't be held accountable.

It is like killing the messenger. Some day, we will all remember who stood on the right side of this issue because refusing to deal with our long term debt, our short term deficits is making America weak.

Does anybody really believe there isn't at least 10 percent of waste in Washington? Do you really think things are that streamlines and we can't cut tons of redundancy and fraud? Really, it boggles the mind.

How about the health care plan the government workers are given? BTW, do all of you know that health care benefits offered by the state and local municipalities were never required to fund those benefits and thus the costs that escalate each year are not budgeted for and paid out of the general fund. Do you realize there is no budget for Medicare?

Roy, you're seriously deluded. FDR got the U.S. OUT of the Depression - after Hoover pushed the country into it using the same tactics the Tea Party wants to use again this time around.

See post #3.105

And theboys:

Do you realize there is no budget for Medicare?

Do you realize you're watching too much FAUX News? That has to be the stupidest thing that's been posted here tonight.

RealAmericansFirst "TARP was passed by the Republicans, markmich - October 3, 2008. You really don't know history, do you? Even just from 2008."

TARP was passed by the House and Senate with overwhelming support from Democrats, and with relatively few Republicans voting for it.

What was that you were saying about "You really don't know history, do you"?

RealAmericansFirst "Roy, you're seriously deluded. FDR got the U.S. OUT of the Depression"

And it only took 9 years and the start of WW2 to do it. There was a very severe 'depression' in the early 1920s too, but since that was before FDR and his 'New Deal', it was quickly over and prosperity quickly returned.

Many Republicans in both the House and Senate voted in favor of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which authorized the secretary of the Treasury to create the Troubled Asset Relief Program to provide financial aid to banks and other financial institutions. Indeed, on September 29, 2008, 65 House Republicans voted in favor of H.R. 3997, the original House vehicle for the act. After that legislation failed, on October 1, 2008, 34 Senate Republicans voted for H.R. 1424, the new vehicle for the act, and on October 3, 2008, 91 House Republicans voted for that bill. President Bush, a Republican, subsequently signed it into law.

RealAmericansFirst

TARP was passed by the Republicans, markmich - October 3, 2008. You really don't know history, do you? Even just from 2008

Look. I know you poor Liberal Progressives are starved for any accomplishment you can pin on Obama but you have to clear your partisan marbles and READ!

Did I ever say Obama created TARP? NO! Even though he DID ask President Bush, in January of 2009, to request the release of the second $350 billion in federal bailout funds so he would have "ammunition" if the country's fragile economy weakened further.

And I'm sure you remember how well Obama's HAMP program has done using TARP funds, right?

RealAmericansFirst "theboys: Do you realize there is no budget for Medicare?.........Do you realize you're watching too much FAUX News? That has to be the stupidest thing that's been posted here tonight."

There is no annual budget for Medicare. There are only estimates of revenues and expenditures for Medicare that are included in the Federal Budget each year.

Obama's Budget estimates for Medicare over the next 10 years (2012 -2021) are as follows;

Estimated Revenues = $2.917 Trillion.
Estimated costs for Medicare = $6.621 Trillion.
Deficit for Medicare over 10 years = $3.704 Trillion - in this one program alone.
Of course, the Democrats say "We can't touch Medicare", despite the fact that it will soon be bankrupt.

This is pretty typical of "entitlement" programs passed by Democrats, and now we will have a new one to deal with - Obamacare.

RealAmericansFirst

I noticed that you only reported on the Republicans that voted for TARP, but didn't mention that more Democrats than Republicans voted for the bill in both the House and the Senate.

This vine is getting tiresome.

Goodnight.

ROY WILSON-336103

Hey there, Mr. hard facts. One of your posts talks about Bush running up a deficit of $2.006T in the eight years he was in office, and Obama adding another $4.3T during his time in office. Since Bush inherited a surplus and the deficit now stands at over $13T, there 's a big chunk missing from your numbers, isn't there? How about the truth that Bush ran up a deficit of close to $10T, from a surplus, during his eight years of office. And the only reason why the deficit went up was because of the subsidies started by George W before he left office. The unfortunate truth in life is that when your predecessor screws up, you, the successor inherit all the previous idiot's caused problems. You can keep justifying stupidity all you want (you really have to be brainwashed to justify gibberish George). It just doesn't matter to anyone with a brain. That is why your posts are amusing. They're the creation of a brainwashed mind who's perception will not face reality no matter how hard it smacks you in the face. Reading these posts is more entertaining than watching the Three Stooges....

RealAmericansFirst

Roy, you're seriously deluded. FDR got the U.S. OUT of the Depression

WOW! REALLY?

You have to stop reading all that revisionist history the Liberal Progressives are forcing down your throat.

WW2 got us out of the Depression. Actually the massive post-WW2 indusrialization that was needed to rebuild Europe, Japan and most ot the world is what got us out of the Depression.

Henry Morgenthau, FDR's own Treasury Secretary said:

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot."

Sound familiar?

Mr. mich, No. Like the welfare babies that the tea bagging republicans are.What do you mean mowdy5000? I will tell you. Tax cuts ARE a hand out. Its welfare. The government is borrowing money from creditors they want to borrow or STEAL it from the tax payers in SSI to give handouts to the rich and to YOU the middle class former middle class and the poor. America as the tea bagging republicans point out is in debt to the trillions right? So how are we getting tax cuts? Hmmm? Tell me? How is that NOT welfare handouts? Only they are MORE destructive. Because you have to use borrowed money to hand them out but tea bagging republicans lie and say they are not handouts while making fun of the poor elderly handicapped and children. They then want cuts cut cuts in programs while using BORROWED money to GIVE tax cuts when we are NOT running a surplus, but the biggest debt in our countries history. And that how they think magic Jesus is going to take the wheel and ride it out. Are you all OK with that? Tax cuts are a government handout. But tea bagging republicans lie and say they are not. All the while railing against SSI medicare and caid. JUST like they lied to get elected saying they would create jobs. ONLY the only jobs government can create our government jobs. And the right HATES the government and wants it smaller. So they are either THAT stupid. Or they lied. Didn't they or aren't they? Hmmm.

Furthermore they have not created or passed one jobs bill why do you think that is? See the afore mentioned point up there. You see, the rich haven't created any jobs. The private sector is moving OUT of America because of our stupid free trade agreements that HURT US not help. If tax cuts handout worked then we would all have so many jobs we couldn't fill them all. That's logic. Its fact. But that's not the case because it doesn't work at all. And all they are doing is robbing the poor to give to the rich. Anyone EVER heard a rich person offer to fix your city's roads? Pay your doctors bill? How about regulating themselves? How'd that work under Bush? Face it. Republicans for 7 years under Bush wrecked this country and ran it into the ground. NOW they assume they know how to fix it. When they don't even understand what they did to it in the first place. Bunch of know nothing ignoramus.

There! I threw my juice on it because in 2011 mowdy5000 is looking out for you. Letting you all know I care and I have been warning you that we are downgraded already. So you can thank me those of you who listen when the time is right.

Cheers

confused-3012211

Since Bush inherited a surplus

More Liberal Progressive smoke and mirrors.

IF Clinton left Bush a surplus why didn't the Debt ever gone down during Clintons terms? Because there was no surplus. It was the usual Washington manipulations of the Public Debt and Intragovernmental Holdings which make up the National Debt. Public Debt went down but Intragovernmental Holdings went up each year. What Clinton did was move money from the Intragovernmental Holdings, mostly from Social Security, into the Public debt artificially lowering it.

Clinton was fortunate to preside over one of the most remarkable growth era's in our history but he had nothing to do with it. It was called the Dot-Com bubble. You or I could have been president during that incredible time. As Alan Greenspan so eloquently called it,,"irrational exuberance". Well, I guess Al Gore should get some credit as he said he invented the internet,,,,LOL.

You remember that time don't you? When your portfolio was 3-4 times what it ever should have been. Right? It was because of hysterical free market forces driving the market up on ghost companies that were multiples above their valuations. I remeber it very well because I day traded it for years. I could pick an obscure internet stock on Monday and sometimes double my money by Friday. It was called churning.

But alas, many people lost money when the bubble burst and we went into a deep recession. This was also aided by Greenspans artificial manipulation of interest rates. Kinda like Bernanke is doing now.

Got it?

Let me get this straight. When a democrat is in office and the going is good, it's just dumb luck. When a democrat is in office and the going goes bad, it's all the democrat's fault. When a republican is in office for eight years, and at the end of those eight years, everything goes south, it's the democrats fault that ruled before and after, or it's the fault of some other beaurocrat--primarily some liberal. I may be confused about many things, but I can clearly see BS when it's flung into the fan.

confused-3012211

Well, I don't know about any problems you may have with confusion, but I think this quote should sum it up nicely for you.

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

G'night.

Kindergartners--all of them, both Democrats and Republicans.

They are playing with our minds and playing games.

Out with all of them, come the 2012 Election---

They all look like silly little people to me--no brains, no job---OUT! No regard for their Constiutients; it's all about "THEM"--

Stinkers---Politics has gone rotten; maggots feeding off our emotions, and lives..

branxoz

NEWSFLASH...NEWSFLASH...There is NO "party" in D.C. worth a hill of beans. And contrary to popular belief there is NO such thing as a "tea" party...they are NOTHING but a far right "extremist" arm of the Republican party. Democrat, Republican, Independent, ALL worthless and useless.!!!

That is so true. At first I used to complain about how two parties could run on the same ticket. The Taxed Enough Already Party was running as Tea Party Candidates on the GOP ticket in elections. I found that to be very disturbing. But a s time went by I came to accept that they are just Extreme Radicals within the GOP. They are a branch division like Log Cabin Republicans or Blue Dog Democrats, just very vocal. They are a phase, a novelty that gave hope to people who were worried about having to pay a fair share of the revenues to the Federal Government. Like the others, they will fade and the centrist on both sides will dominate as usual. I am a Democrat but I guess not too hard-line. I like part of the platforms for the DNC, RNC and the so called Tea Party Agenda. None of them have a solution for everything but they all do have ideas that if combined would be the almost perfect solution. Nothing is ever perfect.

I'm thinking that since nobody with a tenth of a brain is yet running for the GOP ticket in 2012, maybe we should have a lottery? Ordinary Americans, by the thousands, throwing their ticket into the hat, and the lucky winner gets campaign funds to run against Obama on the GOP ticket.

We might actually find a worthwhile candidate among all the "Joe Plumber's" out there, instead of this circus freak-show the GOP is parading today.

Heck, Obama could declare that he is a Muslim-Satanist-Communist anti-American terrorist and he would STILL win over the bunch of circus clowns the GOP has fielded so far.

I would like to nominate my dog for the GOP ticket. He can fetch, he loves people, and he sh*ts in the yard instead of in the House. That puts him way above anyone I've seen yet from the Greed Over People party that I used to vote for regularly...but who now make me think I will never vote for them again, ever...

The Tea Partiers have done serious damage to their own party---they've split the Republicans up; thus, the just elected Tea Party Congress people, are in the way of getting this Deal sealed up---The Democrats could help too, as they have divided their party in half, also--Obama has NO Power--

It is astonishing to me, how they can't come together with their fellow Republicans, and cooperate instead of dividing--it reminds me of "United We Stand, Divided We Fall"---who's looking out for "you"?

Yes, the Republicans are going to have a very difficult time getting one solid candidate for the next Presidential Election. It makes me sick--as a Conservative--

The Politicians running for Congress and President of the United States, are not made of the "old stock" of Presidents from what was supposed to be the good qualities for becoming a President. Has the US become too Liberal in all areas of life? Is that the problem?

Where are the decent People?---We need a real Leader.--America is floating----where is the next stop?---

All of us must be completely involved in the process.

What if on Tuesday, when there is no deal, there was a revolution? What if people actually gave a sh*t about losing their jobs and/or seeing their retirement investments drop another 30 or 40%, instead of saying "oh well, nothin' I can do about it"?

Wouldn't it be amazing if Americans actually stood up and said "if you can't lead this country, we'll find somebody who will?"

Term limits, pay for performance and lobbyist controls. If these money-sucking thieves that we elect from both parties can't do what's right for the country, they need to feel the pain too.

Democrats are screaming to the seniors, you are going to lose your Medicare and SocialSecurity. This is not true and is a nothing but a big lie. Scare the old and threaten the young. It is time for spending cuts and a balanced budget. This is been going on way to long (35+ years). Americans pay way too much in taxes
while members of the legislators give themselves raises and work crooked deals
to send jobs aboard.

Do you want to know why your neighbor, brother, sister, mother and father are out of work? Look no further than the car you drive and the clothes you wear. When is America going to wake up. The trade deficit with China and other
countries is appalling and a joke. We tax businesses to death and then push these businesses outside our boarders, so businesses pay no taxes and get cheap labor, only to sell you the same product that you neighbor, brother, sister, mother and father manufactured here for the same price you are paying now for the goods you buy that are made in a foreign land. Then you all scream bloody murder, I don’t get it, and you all must not have an IQ over 75.

What you need to do is call your legislator and tell them enough is enough, stop
spending money we don’t have. Tell your legislator that you want a job, that you are tired of buy foreign products which are costing America jobs. Tell
your legislator if they want to tax something, then slap a tariff or tax on
foreign imports.

Unions are also a major cost on our economy as well. It is called greed and this causes jobs as well. Look at Boeing, the Carolina’s ended up getting aircraft work without Union involvement, so what does the Machinist Union do? The Union is suing Boeing because they state Boeing retaliate for the workers striking. NEWS FLASH, have you ever heard of the rock band Rush? Rush sings a song called Tree’s. This song reminds me of Boeing, the Machinist Union and Airbus. Boeing is the Oak trees and they provide shade for the maples, the Machinist Union are the maple trees, but the maples keep scream for more light, and Airbus is the hatchet, axe and saw. The moral of the song is that since the trees could not get along, there is no longer the forest, because the hatchet, axe and saw leveled everything while they were bickering.

Think about it that is if you ever heard this song. If you have not heard the song, encourage you to listen it or read the lyrics to it. This is exactly what is
happening to Boeing and the Machinist Union right now, in a few years from now; there will no longer be a Boeing or Machinist Union, because Airbus will run
them out of business.

Americans really need to think about this. Don’t listen to the paid pundits on this message board or on TV; these idiots will stir you wrong. Pundits push their parties’ agenda and don’t care about your values.

Here is my idea. To create smaller, efficient goverment we need to first dissolve the House of Representatives. There are 435 members. And there are all useless. All states are represented in the Senate. So we keep that, get rid of the House, save all that salary money, and pray like hell they all croak in a timely fashion so they don't burden us with pensions and what not. Then we rewrite cooprate taxation, lower the tax rate for income under 20k. Bam, problem solved. no more inefficient goverment, plenty of money to go around and everbody is happy. Even the Teabaggers can't complain, since my plan is all for smaller goverment.

There are some who think we are better of than Greece. I would like to have that explained. Why are we better of? Because there are no riots on american streets? Well, we'll see about that. Because their credit rating is sh!t? Let's see how long ours stays afloat. So please, somebody explain why we are better of than Greece.

Also, stop saying Germany should be our role model due to their trading surplus. That is nonesense. German economy is in the sh!ter because they keep selling their goods to contries who don't have any money. So they lend those countries money to buy german goods and then don't get paid. So realy the german goverment is almost as broke as ours. If it weren't for weapons sales they'd be broker than us. Funny, everybody pays cash for weapons.

Here's the latest CBO numbers on the sources of the deficit:

U.S. National Debt

Please do not say the link leads to CBO numbers. The link leads to a White House page, not a CBO page. Thank you.

STOP the money party.................................. RONALD REAGAN:

''I know we here today, and a majority of the American people agree on one point: We're not saying we have a terrible problem and Government must find a solution. We're saying Government is the problem and the people have the solution—a constitutional amendment making balanced budgets the law of this land.''

Read more at the American Presidency Project: www.presidency.ucsb.edu http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=42940#ixzz1TaO3E479

The 'generic' Republican beats him easily, according to the pollsters.

The "generic Republican" isn't running. And the viable GOP candidates are waiting until 2016. The current Clown Posse doesn't have a snowball's chance, which thankfully means we won't have a Republican president next time around. Unfortunately, that means we'll have a Democrat in the White House. If people keep voting for R and D, instead of actually researching ALL the possibilities, the hole will keep on getting deeper.

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

the people have already sacrificed enough...with loss of jobs, there homes, their savings, their pension plans,401ks The top have that have caused all this with their greed and corruption including the politicians that they buy off have not sacrificed one thing. They are even living better then they were 3 years ago. They continue to send jobs overseas , hide there money offshore, use every loophole they can while receiving subsidizes with tax payer money to continue to figure out ways to continue to screw the American ppl. There are more ppl receiving asst then there were 4 years ago and more ppl homeless then ever. Yet the top which are suppose to be the job creators continue to not create jobs in America and we continue to reward them for this. Whats wrong with this picture people?

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Goodness sakes, none of you are doing yourselves any favors by not bothering to understand the difference between debt and defecit. I read several times through this thread about how George W Bush started with a Surpus and ended with 10 trillion in debt. First off, in the last year of Bill Clinton's presidency he had a Budget Surplus on paper for the year 2000. This DOES NOT mean that in the year 2000 the US government held no national debt, in fact it had 5.9 trillion in national debt. Debt and Defecit are not the same thing, and a Defecit Surplus does not mean the government did not owe any money! And that is even if you believe Cinton had a Budget surplus, since the national debt actually rose by $17 billion in 2000 (granted that is not bad at all compared to the projected defecit of 1,500 billion this year, but it isn't truely a surplus either).

So NO, no matter what side of the aisle you stand on, Bush did NOT rack up 10 trillion in debt in 8 years, actually about 4.2 trillion, and that includes the war in Iraq and Afganistan, and the evil evil Bush Tax Cuts.

I am not saying Bush didn't add to the defecit, because he did, but for the credibility of both sides of the arguement please learn the difference between Defecit and Debt before you post. When you totally miss the meaning of something that fundamental to your point of view, it discredits the rest of your opinion.

confused-3012211

you HAVE MAIL...!

confused-3012211 "ROY WILSON-336103 Hey there, Mr. hard facts. One of your posts talks about Bush running up a deficit of $2.006T in the eight years he was in office, and Obama adding another $4.3T during his time in office. Since Bush inherited a surplus and the deficit now stands at over $13T, there 's a big chunk missing from your numbers, isn't there?"

Since you didn't other to use the link to OBAMA'S OWN WHITE HOUSE LINK that I provided, I will detail it for you - I do trust that you can add;

Bush 2001 = $128.236 Billion SURPLUS
Bush 2002 = $157.758 Billion Deficit
Bush 2003 = $377.585 Billion Deficit
Bush 2004 = $412.727 Billion Deficit
Bush 2005 = $318.346 Billion Deficit
Bush 2006 = $248.181 Billion Deficit
Bush 2007 = $160.701 Billion Deficit
Bush 2008 = $458.553 Billion Deficit

Add them up, and you get a total 8 year net Deficit of $2.006 Trillion.

For Obama, his figures show;
Obama 2009 = $1,412.688 Billion Deficit
Obama 2010 = $1,293.489 Billion Deficit
Obama 2011 Proj. = $1,645.119 Billion Deficit

Add them up, and you get $4.351 Trillion of net Deficits over only 3 years.

I will give you the White House link one more time so you can verify;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

I can understand how you can get 'confused' by facts when they interfere with you pre-conceived notions, but sometimes we have to face reality. By the way, you might want to learn the difference between Deficits and changes in the National Debt - they ARE different.

I have a question,

Why is it my 10yr old niece understand the importance of raising the debt ceiling, understand what the GOP are trying to do and Understand the significants of The Affordable Heath Care Act , and the RIGHT WING RADICALS don't get it???/

MLJ-3

Maybe because she has been " Brainwashed" by the media she watches and read that says " Greed is GOOD , borrow till you drop dead"???

Two wrongs Never make a right, when you are over extended in borrowings to borrow more is akin to being in quick sand and struggle, best is to STOP, go on your Back, and slowly doing the back stroke S L O W L Y "swim out" follow the rules then you will not be in quicksand for life ;-)

Yes, I hope the 10yr old gets some responsible advice before she messes up her life with debt and bankruptcy....There is no debt limit...is just crazy...but, there are a lot of crazy people around....and more and more bankruptcies....

Heard your BS loud and clear RIghties

One day your neice will be asking you why our country is so poor....are you going to admit that it is partially your fault??? That you went crazy with the spending and debt??? And that Obama was a failure???

How much of that, president obama debt comes the war or extension of the bush tax cuts?

comes from

Tao...it is getting on to three yrs of Obama and all the wars are still there plus one more Obama war in Libya...Obama moved 70000(70%) of additional troops into Afghanistan and has slowed the Bush Iraq withdrawal plan down. These are now Obama wars and he appears to enjoy that role...The Bush tax cuts produced jobs, economy and increased revenues, up until the liberal banking program caused recession hit us.....When will Obama(and you) accept any responsibility for your really ugly mistakes??? When will you accept any sane efforts to get us out of this recession??

and me? I asked a question. Was That 70% ask for by the military and if so why? How did Banking program change since President Obama took office ? Asking Questions is a ugly mistake? I am not saying that he has not added to the deficit/debt. I am just asking questions.

Agreed Paul, but the republicans and teabaggers could care less about your financial future. In fact, if they bothered to look down as they step all over you, they would probably just point and laugh.

BelieveInGreed...

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm gainfully employed (not by any government) and have no teat in my hand our mouth. I'm just a better person than you are for caring a little abouth those they may be less fortunate than me.

Paul - I am conservative in nature, but vote Independent. I followed the Tea Party in 2010, and sort of liked what they were doing. At this point though ... I think I see nothing but a entity that has destroyed the Repulican Party and therefore disupted and much needed balance of power/influence.

While I dont like Obama's politics - and I CERTAINLY dont like Obamacare and want to see it killed - I can no longer have any sense of desire or interest to listen to what the Tea Party has to say. They are far too extreme in my view.

They are not helping our country at this point - they are far more detriment to our country than anything helping. And I do believe that the members of Congress who are "listening" to the Tea-Party, ARE NOT listening to their constituents ... AS THEY WERE ELECTED TO DO.

You people who oppose the Tea Party...Why are you so eager to give the government more money when they blow it right and left and then threaten to cut off military and social security when it runs out and they want more? It has to be because you are on the receiving end and not one of the taxpayers.

Normal... I really am employed, thank you! Somewhere between 15% & 20%. So go ahead and dazzle us all with your outrageously high donation percentage.

ehv-savz- I am so with you on this. I don't think the teaparty understands how badly they are hurting the republican mainstream party. Independents are not going this route.

Linda, the tea party has morphed into something other than a lower taxes party. It is now run by a group of people that want to use it as a means to make social changes and redistibute the wealth to the upper income brackets. Look closely at any of the proposals that are on the table in the House. None of them require any kind of sacrifice by anyone but those least able to afford it. The burden is put right ont he backs of the elderly, disabled, and poor. No real cuts to the military, pet GOP projects or Congess's pay or benefits.. No real corporate tax reform that eliminates a company making billions and paying little or no tax all the while taxing the hell out of small American businesses.

I originally thought of the "Tea Party" as being 'non of the above' regarding those in Washington, DC--a swelling tide of non-aligned, move-our-governance-away-from-dysfunctional-incumbents, mainstream Americans.

The so-called "Tea Party" (as characterized by Liberals--and conscripted by Conservatives) shows me that I--as an Independent--never want to see a large national Independent Party/Committee (similar to the DNC or RNC), with a static, hackneyed agenda. I want to be able to line-item vote--as much as possible--on candidates and issues. Independent to me (and to many others, I'm sure) means unaligned to any intransigent political "persuasion" (pun intended, i.e., intransigent versus persuasion).

normal-495217

Jaxguy - if you really are employed then thank you employer for your job and see if calling him a teabagger does you any good. You are one of the problems - you are so ready to spend other peoples tax dollars - how much did you donate last year? 1% -- maybe, I doubt it. and when I say donate I am not talking about taxes which are required donations...

Thank his employer my ass! Thank what's left of the American Consumer for creating the demand that keeps his employer in business. When will people like you wake-up? The wealthy do not create jobs. If they did, we'd have full employment after the last 11 years of tax cuts. Only demand creates jobs! Kill the middle-class you kill the economy!

When they show you who they are...believe them!

JaxGuy. I think you stepped on a sore toe. You are not alone though. I work and earn a decent income. I have a masters degree which I completed while working full time and supporting a family. Alas, I may be a liberal and today is a sad one for me. It isn't that I see no value in the debate and I'm even for fiscal responsibility. The magnitude of polarization shown in this debacle is highly disturbing. How can liberals or conservatives disagree so vehemently and remain convinced their judgment is infallible.

Some have suggested a willingness to compromise. I'm not so foolish to believe they are holding out the conciliatory olive branch, rather I suspect they hope to gain the greater advantage. Even if jaded this seems realistic. Pragmatism ought not be a sin.

The tea party element strikes me as a group believing that complex problems have simple solutions. It's the dream of a fool and the food of a zealot. Even John Boehner can't reason with them. There is little to be gained by chasing a fool in a hurry but today that's the choice we get.

Thinker...I am not part of his constituency either. We--that mean You and Me--voted these people into office. We as a nation are responsible for that. I certainly would have voted differently if I knew then what I know now...but I didn't. Platitudes? Fool? Put your foolish platitudes in an orifice that matches your smell.

WichitaThinkerRulez,

I'm not a tea partier, I actually voted for Obama. Unfortunately I base my opinions on facts and substance not the crap that mindless people like you spit out of your mouth and make up. And like I said since you seem to have a reading disability, I was stated that it was income tax and not other taxes. I know 8th grade level writing can be difficult for some.

Consider it done. I am all grown up now. I didn't vote for them. I am, however, an American. That means that I am part of "we the people". If you are American--which I doubt--then you too are part of "we the people." I get it that you don't like (hate) the Tea Party. I do get that. I think it is fine also. Still, they seem to be a part of this problem--a big part--and the only way to deal with that is to stand together and try to see what they are seeing so that you or someone like you can come up with a solution to our national problems. If you want to deal with the Devil, you are going to have to mingle with the tenants in Hell.

Wow Wichita you seem to be the tea party expert. You know what they believe even more than they do. Kudos to you genius.