There is no doubt in my mind that the President and the Democrats would love nothing more than defunding the Military, especially if they knew their "News" outlets would convince the American people that is was the fault of the Tea Party and the Republic Party (which they will)

Hummmmmmmmmmmm

What happens if you have a war and nobody can afford to come?

Mr.Pheaniques, really? The Republicans are doing everything in their power to make our Commander in Chief look as bad as possible. Do you honestly believe that Congress would take a pay cut, the military be-damned? Really? Why do slime like Boehner even have a job, why is he even still in charge of anything? He should be unemployed like the many millions him and his cronies have forced on the American public with his tyrannical policy's. If you truly believe that the Republicans and Democrats as a whole care about our soldiers or the middle class, then they got you right where they want you, wake up before it is seriously way too late.... and we are almost too late.

We should bring every member of our military home from Afghanistan and Iraq. We need to quit wasting money we don't have!

..... that is was the fault of the Tea Party and the Republic Party (which they will)

..... and it is.

However, if there is any kind of default on Military Pay, the Treasury better charter some Jumbo Jets to fly out 532 Representatives and Senators to their secret Foreign bolt holes on Emigration, because thats the only action that would save their skins from an apoletic American Population who will blame Capital Hill "en masse", and for once act in a Bi-Partisan manner.

There is more chance of Man landing on Mars this Decade than a default on Military Pay. Not even the Tea Party Lunatics would play politics with that one.

Nice juicy talking point, but non payment of the military, is in reality, just not going to happen.

Dan123-2768152 #1,

Please include the Commander-in-chief and all of his and the Congressional aids .

I agree bring home all our troops in Pakistan,afghanistan,libya,iraq,kuwait,bahrain with their salaries and the billions being wasted in the land of Mohammed {desert hellholes} a good first step in balancing the budget! RONALD REAGAN:

I know we here today, and a majority of the American people agree on one point: We're not saying we have a terrible problem and Government must find a solution. We're saying Government is the problem and the people have the solution—a constitutional amendment making balanced budgets the law of this land.

Read more at the American Presidency Project: www.presidency.ucsb.edu http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=42940#ixzz1TaO3E479

Goodbye Mullen...enjoy that $10,176.00 per month pay that you will get as an O-10......I'm sure somehow you'll get paid.....You could not give us one straight answer at any other time either....join the retired ranks with your buddy Rumsfeld.....who still can't explain why it took so long to get our Hummers up-armored......thank you mullen for explaining that the enlistment contract we signed is not going to be honored by the government...I know that 95% of the members of the Zoo in washington (BOTH parties)have never seen any kind of basic training,much less combat,so they wouldn't get it...Yes,we know we signed up for military service vouluntarily,yes we have,and will always do our job,with,or without a thank you,or even aknowledgement that we're still fighting,yes some of us will get killed,or permanently disfigured,we knew that coming in.....BUT we also THOUGHT we knew,that by signing that enlistment contract,we would be taken care of if either of the unthinkables happened....We in the military have no inupt as to the politics of wars,we go,and do our job,without question,...( ok in the Army we bitch alot...it's also our job to bitch alot,..but to OURSELVES)....people want to complain?..Complain about the private contractors who do jobs that the military HAS people trained for....but the contractors do it for 3 times the pay!....and we still have to go out on the convoys to provide security for them when these overpaid jokers move around.Let OUR guys do our job,or bring them all home.....Servicemen,and women have given so much,and are thought of so little,especially by politicians of BOTH parties...........U.S.Army Disabled Veteran.

Dan123-2768152

We should transport every member of Congress to the middle of Afghanistan, put a gun in one hand, a bottle of water in the other and tell them they can leave once they get this figured out. I bet they would come up with a solution fairly quickly.

Better yet, why don't just bring all the imperial mercenaries home and end the empire.

The troops will get paid. Period. This is a red herring story.

Peacelover

You have been sold snake oil... Reagan was a HUGE deficit spender, Reagan did not balance budgets, between him and Bush I the deficit came to a huge number.

Reagan created the conditions for the problem we are in now: Lower Taxes while Increasing expenditures. The followers just maintained the same idea of lower taxes repeatedly. Reagan was just doing the dirty work for the corporations and was the perfect definer of the plutocracy we live in today.

Want to solve this, recall EVERYONE IN CONGRESS, specially the ideologues and imbeciles. The tea has gone sour

Dan123-2768152

I've got $1000.00 to make this happen.

Bluto: You are right, they will get paid. Quite frankly everyone in America should be absolutely disgusted with way Obama is handling this. The facts are that he knows that the government continues to bring in somewhere between $180 - $200 Billion every month in revenues. That is more than enough to pay the interest on the debt, social security and military pay. It's a no brainer that these are top priority. He knows they will be paid. He's the one who makes the decision. If he doesn't make these payments, he should be impeached. Heck, the media has been complicit in all this too and that is also despicable.

But, we all know that Obama loves to create a crisis. It's part of his destroying America program. For you people on the left, I realize you think Obama is brilliant. But, if he is so brilliant, why has he known for all this time that this debt limit is coming and he has done absolutely nothing to address it other than lie about defaulting on the debt and seniors not getting paid?

He and the dems still have no plan. The only conclusion is he and the dems are too stupid to come up with a plan or they are purposely trying to create chaos and fear. Now their purpose for doing so is one of two things, or both: they want to destroy the country, and they think by doing nothing they can pull a fast one over the American people because they believe they are too stupid to understand all this, and will blame the repubs.

Quite frankly, it really doesn't matter whether they are doing this purposely, or are just too dumb to know what to do, the results are the same.

It is most interesting how the Republicans, who have claimed for about a century and a half as being the fiscally responsible party are so willing to declare they are not going to honor debts our nation incurred. Typical spoiled brats.

Their party's founder, Abraham Lincoln, started the income tax to pay for the Civil War. Their last President convinced a lot of really stupid people he would be the first leader in the history of civilization to pay for a war with a tax cut. The GOP has become a party of blithering idiots.

Note to our Troops: No, you will not get paid if Obumbo can blame the Right.. Why in the hell would we pay our moron Congressman and not the Troops??

witchrunner

Really? Wow, what an insight!

Why is it that you right-wingers are always paranoid about what is different? Obama done nothing? Open your eyes and see for yourself, not through the eyes of the ideologue controlling you. Is Obama Brilliant? Yes he is, he is really intelligent. Is he a great President? No he is not, might be for his own shortcomings or because of the political environment. Are Dems trying to destroy America? Please, that job has been reserved exclusively to the TEA Party (and they are doing a mighty good job in this).

Just a little idea: A country is not a household, it cannot be run the same. The lower taxes mantra has nowhere to go to now, trickle down economics has demonstrated during the past 30 years to be a fraud. Instead of creating conspirator theories, tell your congressperson to start working, but not without some advice of a non partisan economist

Get off the Presidents Ass! ... Both parties are responsible for this mess!

This is the result of a half a century of mismanagement of this nation, and failure of responsible fiscal management, everyone waiting for the wreak to happen ... on the other parties watch ....

witchrunner... if the Treasury is bringing in "more than enough" to pay all its debts, then why do we have a deficit?

The fact that there are people who continue to try and convince others that everything is fine, is disturbing.

The Treasury may be taking in about $200 Billion a month, but they are spending nearly twice that a month. By law, interest on debt is paid first. THEN all the other things follow. And if there is a default, guess what? That interest will go UP, just like it does when you fail to pay your credit card bill. So that'll leave even less, after the interest is paid, for those other expenditures.

The ridiculous notion that the Democrats want to "destroy the country" is unfounded. It doesn't make sense to destroy a country and leave yourself nothing to run. If that were the case, the Republicans are equally to blame. They fan the fires of division among all Americans.

If you believe a politician on either side has your best interests in mind, think again. They were bought and sold long before your mind was decided to vote for them. And they're corporate sponsors will see the majority of benefits long before you and I will.

And they're corporate sponsors will see the majority of benefits long before you and I will.

I was going to say something different, but forgot to change that to "their"... oh well.

Excuse my spelljng and writing I'm tired was taking care of a sick kid and was trying to get this typed as quick as possible

I find this all disheartening that there is a chance we might not get payed. I am a disabled vet that lives on my wife small pay and my military retirement. If you read an article earlier yesterday about the inspector general finding that a defence contractor Ahman, LLC out of dubi has been over charging us in the amounts of billions but yet we still pay for thing s such as a pipe which costs $1.71 and they charged the government $2,102.

I don't understand why congress can't get there priorities straight. They keep sticky to there guns that there intrests are the only thing they can think abut and blaming the president when they need to get to work and fix this problem, If they need to up taxes to get us payed and make sure the country I fought for and ended up so injured where I drive 108 miles 3 times a week to the VA hospital for appointments and the fact I lost so many friends and so have so many others, I didn't do all this for them to screw our friends and family's over so they can get rich.

My sons boy scout leader is one of the defence contractors ( not going to specific what he does , but but I know first hand after he built his 9 milion dollar home (the most expensive home in our town) across the lake from us which I go in to every week just think this is were our tax dollars went. but he charges in outrages price for what he sells them, He and I talked about how much it would cost for my Investigation company to get the same thing he sells the government and it was a 600% difference, meaning he charges the government more then if a us company wanted the same product. ( I live around 50 miles from denver and the town we live in is not excectly cheap to live but his home is just over the top.

Michelle Bachman wants to cut VA benefits but yet votes for retarded spending. It's not just one party thats responsible, it's not just the president he can't do anything till congress does there part, and it's not our fault. It is the fault of congress and there spending to make company's happy so that they give the corrupt politician money to keep running then they do favors for these companies so they get rich. Look at Haliburten, My Brother-in-law works for them and has for a while in there accounting office, he was telling me when the warin Iraq started there were back door dealings with the government because Cheany was the vice president and former owner and when he went in to office he told the company to gear becouse they would double there work, in the end it was true.

Why can't congress start working to geather and quit acting like kids and figure this out, I do feel that they are affraid that they won't get rich if they raise taxes on the rich companies that pay very little to people that actualy do the work. That same boy scout leader told me that it's the 5% percnet of the rich people that make this country run and work , everyone else is just lazy. That is not true becouse the rich would not get rich if it wasn't for there low pay to the people that acctualy do the work.

Military and veterans should be Priority #1 2nd should be medicare. and then the rest. If they do screw us vets and military over I hope it starts a civil war in this conrtie. It's easier to rebuild from the ground up then to keep plugging these holes that keep leaking and running the country we have worked so hard to build.

I say everyone should boycott large bussinesses, the goverment and anything that keeps this corution going.

The first ones not to get paid is congress itself.

How stupid can this get beyond not paying our troops we have put in harm's way on the battlefield?

This is really a non partisan issue. Raising the debt ceiling is about paying existing debt and paying people like our troops on the battlefield. Raising the debt ceiling should not be used as an opportunity to hold the country hostage. Move all of those larger spending/taxes issues to the regular sessions of congress and leave our troops alone to do their jobs.

John Boehner, Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor were there to vote for the Bush spending binge that almost doubled the national debt. They voted nineteen times to raise the debt ceiling. Back then Cheney said deficits don't count. Now suddenly they do when a Democrat is in the white house. This is partisan hypocrisy.

We should transport every member of Congress to the middle of Afghanistan, put a gun in one hand, a bottle of water in the other and tell them they can leave once they get this figured out. I bet they would come up with a solution fairly quickly.

I agree with this idea though I wouldn't even give them a gun. I figure, if they're capable of coming up with a solution while having to dodge bullets simultaneously then they'll have come that much closer to understanding what it's actually like being a soldier and perhaps come to the realization as to how tremendously unfair it is to everyone in the military to have to be concerned about being paid on top of everything else they have to deal with.

The troops will get paid. They deserve to get paid and they need to get paid. It would be political suicide for a politician to be so morally bankrupt to not let our troop get paid.

then again, I feel we have some politicians right now who have already jumped the bridge, leaving their morals behind....

Agian sorry about spelling

And why is is that if your a Republican, you always have to blame everyone for the problems at hand. Everyone needs to come together as one to fix this, don't just support your party for what ever stupid reason it is because your party which ever it is, is not always right. I don't like either side. I fought for the people that have common sense not all the idiots that want to fight for what they so called think they know.

One side note, I very rarely give much info about myself but, as sick as I have been these last several months, having surgery 3 times this year 1 time at the Denver VA and 2 times in Cheyenne VA, almost dying 3 times and the only thing I keep thinking about is weather I can live long enough to make sure I get payed so my wife and kids don't have to be living on the streets because I died from all my injuries that I got from making sure all of you had a nice warm bed to sleep in while so many good men didn't get to come home or parts of them got lost on a surgery table. Quit blaming everyone but your own stupid party, it's both sides that have screwed it up equally, get it through your thick heads, and it's not Obama's fault, the president is only a puppet people, he really has very little power to do anything. Start getting your facts straight and learn how the government works before making comments.

And to all of you that think it's not possible for military to not get payed. It is and has happened 3 times in the last 12 years, weather it's a couple weeks later to peoples pay always getting screwed up.

It WAS political suicide when obama threatened paying the military, the old folks, the infirm. He is done. Stick a fork in him.

Mr.PheaNiques - Wow ...i mean wow ...you have some nerve laying this on the President....

@!$%#ing unreal !!!!

Dan wrote

We should transport every member of Congress to the middle of Afghanistan, put a gun in one hand, a bottle of water in the other and tell them they can leave once they get this figured out. I bet they would come up with a solution fairly quickly

Why bother with the gun and bottle of water?

Admiral Mullen, President Obama's Lap dog is lying thru his teeth.

Mullen warned the troops that as time goes on, budget restrictions will pare down the size of the military, and he told them to keep that in mind as they pursue their education and try to further their careers so they will have a better chance of re-enlisting.

Most of the US Military has already been told that 27,000 US Military WILL be RIF'ed (Reduction In Force) by President Obama and it does NOT matter if you start to pursue your education now (if you do not already have the CEL (Civilian Education Level) and MEL (Military Education Level) you are now sh!t out of luck (under consideration to be RIF'ed). Also a decrease in US Military "Benefits" (meaning we are paying to get medical care after being shot or injured by an IED blast).

This was already discussed in detail in publications Federal Times, Army Times, Air Force Times, Marine Corps Times, Navy Times, and by the Army Association (AUSA), Air Force Association (AFA), Marine Corps Association (MCA), Navy Association , etc. as to what President Obama is doing to the US Military (short term and long term results).

With this RIF of the US Military will be the layoffs of xxx, xxx US Civilians that are no longer needed to support the US Military RIF'ed 27,000. As by US Law the Federal Active US Military returning from Iraq and Afghanistan or stationed at the US cannot be used to secure the US Borders, and the States National Guards cannot absorb all of the xxx, xxx lost Jobs, so the xxx,xxx will go on US Unemployment. To use the US Military (Federal Active) to secure the US Borders is also against President Obama's stated Policy (April 2009, and August 2009), President Obama "US Military will not be used to secure the US Borders".

note: this xxx, xxx does not include the indirect support of the US Military of: Raw Material Processing (steel, oil, etc.), Textiles (US Military Uniforms), Manufacturing of US Military Equipment and like US Civilian models, Food Processing (MREs, etc.), Medical Device Industry, Research and Development, etc., with less needed meaning these US Civilians will also be "Downsized" (laid off, unemployed) and not having money to spend on (more lay offs, unemployment, in these areas): Restaurants, Theaters and other entertainment, Retail, Fast Food, Car Dealerships, Fuel, Real Estate, Daycare, Insurance (medical, dental, automotive, home owners, etc.), less revenues for local cities state (meaning layoffs of teachers, police, firefighters, government employees, etc.)..

The comment stated in the Article is as I previously stated, if you want to Cut the US Defense Budget by 50% get rid of the hundred million US Civilians employed by the US Military (directly and indirectly) and replace the expensive US Civilians with cheap US Military like it was before:

Troops pressed Mullen on how much the Pentagon is spending on contractors, when many tasks could be done by military members.

President Obama's August 2009 US Civilian Surge sent almost a hundred thousand privilage US Civilians here (that darn sure do not belong in a combat zone, since they are non combatants and tie up US Military Personnel to guard them (whole platoons to guard a couple of US Civilians)). These US Civilians undermined the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Strategic Goals, by proving to the dirt poor Afghans how decadent and corrupt the "Foreigners" (US Civilians) are as mentioned by the Al Quada, Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban, etc.. examples: a. The US Embassy Security Guards (Wackenhut) partying, dancing around naked and drunk. b. The US Civilians turning this place into their own Disneyland Resort and Spa (no Afghans nor US Military allowed unless invited)(that is where the Billions are going and not to build anything for the Afghans (money controlled by the US Department of State, not accessable by President Karzai nor the US Military, as to why President Karzai requested General McChrystal to investigate President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke, with Eikenberry and Holbrooke screaming to the International News Media "Karzai Corrupt" (undermining a US Allies Government, giving more Strategic Asymmetric Warfare Goals to the Al Quada, Taliban, etc..) after General McChrystal was replaced by General Petraeus, President Karzai requested that General Petraeus investigate President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke, after General Petraeus gave President Karzai the Investigation Report, President Karzai demanded that the Aid Organizations controlled by President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke account for every penny spent or leave HIS Country. Holbrooke is rushed to Pakistan for emergency heart surgery and dies, Eikenberry tenders his resignation to President Obama.). c. during General McChrystal: 1.) Just after General McChrystal Assumed Command President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke change the Rules, making Afghanistan Unwinable for General McChrystal, by negotiating the Rules of Engagement with President Karzai without General McChrystal's (an US Military) input to Cannot shoot until shot. d. The additional US Civilians of President Obama's August 2009 US Civilian Surge start creating Logistics/Supply problems for General McChrystal. The priviliaged US Civilians start to demand BurgerKing, Starbucks, Pizzia Joints, etc. as "Their Rights". General McChrystal decides that Bullets for the the Troops are more important than Buns (and Hamburger Patties) for BurgerKing; the privilaged US Civilians complain to President Obama, General McChrystal receives his first verbal reprimand from President Obama (in front of everyone during the video conference). President Obama's Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke side with the privilaged US Civilians (demanding more like: armored SUVs (that go no where), flown in surf (lobsters) and turf (steaks), catered banquets, booze (illegal at Islamic Nation), etc., not for the Afghans nor US Military. e. Just like the over Billion USD US Embassy at Iraq, another Billion USD US Embassy is built at Pakistan (this does not include the pay for the Embassy Personnel and Staff, water for the swimming pools, concessionaires, logistics/supply/transportation, etc.).

old-pilot wrote

Why bother with the gun and bottle of water?

I say we make it even more economical. Just drop Hairy Reed and Tammy Faye Boehner off in Detroit after dark.

They'll be hugging and agreeing in no time.

The military gets paid on the 1st day of the month....... Debt limit day is the second day of the month.........................Military gets their pay.

I work on base, and considering I see a lot of "Don't tread on me" bumper stickers, there is a certain irony to this article.

Tea Party Adopts 'Don't Tread On Me' Flag

hXXp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125184586

Dan123-2768152

We should transport every member of Congress to the middle of Afghanistan, put a gun in one hand, a bottle of water in the other and tell them they can leave once they get this figured out. I bet they would come up with a solution fairly quickly.

That is an excellent plan. I bet if we could actually do that, this would already be finished.

Sue Rarick

The military gets paid on the 1st day of the month....... Debt limit day is the second day of the month.........................Military gets their pay.

I don't think the military leaders would be talking about non-payment of salaries if this was totally true. Apparently the military leaders and our men and women in arms know that their pay can be withheld.

So in order for the military and all other people dependent on the government we must raise this debt limit and create more debt?????????????????????

We have revenue coming in to the coffers, but it is not enough for the spending. Why can't you all understand that in order to pay the military we must charge our credit card to do that? That would be like you needing Citi to approve another cc for you to charge your mortgage payments for the next couple months until that cc is full.

Why the threat about SS when there is a 2.7 t surplus? Where is that money? Of course we know that answer which is that the surplus does not exist. There is no rainy day fun to now extract money from. It got spend on other spending items.

This president has not put forth a budget for the past 2 years? Do you operate your household like that? Do you have a budget you try to stay within?

It doesn't matter how we got here, the fact is Washington wants to create more debt on top of the current debt in order to keep the country going? There is another option which is to spending according to revenues projected to be brought in.

Please use some commonsense.

Both party plans include cuts that are bogus. There are few cuts at all. The cuts the Reid plan wants to pass includes a reduction in costs for both wars that are already planned. So as the wars ratchet down they are counting those reduction in costs as cutting spending. That is just baloney.

If next year the gross public debt is 15 trillion and counting, will you feel that is the right direction? Do you not realize that is how Greece got into their hot mess? Overspending and overpromising is what is bringing this country to its knees.

We must stop this charade. The president has yet to speak honestly about our financial situation.

markmich: LOL! Yep, he's intelligent alright.

mike: I suppose you have a certain point. If getting the country to look like the Soviet Union is not your idea of being destroyed, then you can argue that he is not trying to destroy it. But, if you understand that the private sector and free enterprise and the concept of individualism are what made this country great and you want to preserve that, then he is trying to destroy the country. From the outset he has set out to "transform" (Obama's word) our country and "spread the wealth around" (again, Obama's words). And never have I, or anyone alive today heard a president of our country go around the world and apologize for our greatness and criticize our way of life.

It costs $29 billion a month to service the debt. Last I knew, that was less than $200 billion. Thus, all this garbage about defaulting on the debt is bogus, unless Obama intends to not make the payments. You confuse all the other stuff that government does with what is necessary to keep it going. There is money to pay for the military, social security, the debt, etc. Now, is there also money to pay for all the grants given to local communities to build swimming pools, etc.? Of course not. All that comes under the category of pork. I suppose it also comes under the category of violation of the Constitution, but that's for another argument. It's all this other stuff that is simply politicians buying votes. We don't have the money for all that and haven't for a long time. And, yes repubs are also guilty there.

The sad fact is that we are on the decline. If you've studied history, you would know that every great society has declined when the citizens realize that they can vote to take money out of other people's pockets and give it to themselves, and when they vote for security over freedom. For when they do that, they ultimately end up with neither. These are just simple facts of life. And, these facts are known to these politicians, including Obama.

This leaves us with either going along with the direction the politicians are leading us, which, as pointed out, is the destruction of the country, or we can try to get people into office to reverse course, or at least prolong the things that have made us great. And right now, the only ones that provide even a hint of that hope is the repubs. Don't worry, I'm not naive enough to believe they will actually succeed. They tried in 1994, only to get corrupted and forget what got them into office in the first place. We'll see what happens.

The "new" teaparty House passed the biggest DOD bill ever AND gave them a pay INCREASE. Spending cuts my a**!

Troops pressed Mullen on how much the Pentagon is spending on contractors, when many tasks could be done by military members.

And right now the Joint Chiefs is pushing people through the system so they can meet DISA requirements in order to obtain escalated privileges on a network. Those that are in, are all aware of what it means to be 8570 compliant. Right now I know a cook, an accountant, and and X-ray tech who where pushed into IT. If you think that sounded like a bad joke, it is, they are failing the required exams.

Not dogging the enlisted, just nine times out of ten when they retire, they will go to work for Lockheed, General Dynamics, etc. as a contractor, they just don't know it yet ;)

Mr P--Sir--tend to disagree with you. Can't possibly de-fund military. We have hundreds, nay, thousands of piss ant little countries yet to invade

grunt? ''The "new" teaparty House passed the biggest DOD bill ever'' 9 billion less than the {spender in chief}Obama requested! Although much more will be done,thanks TEA PARTY for saving the taxpayers 9 billion$$$$!

Here we are, the mightiest nation on the face of this earth, and we may or may not be able to cut some checks. Either solution presented by Boehner or Reid is a stop gap to be dealt with at a later date The only plausible solution on the table so far is cut, cap, and balance. The truth. BO would rather be campaigning and raising money than messing around with a silly old debt ceiling or budget. That be the facts. Why did you figure that he sent Biden in the first place?? He doesn't want to be doing these things now. I am a vet and I think it's a sad, damn, day when a GI has to ask if he'll get paid? No Sh!t, is this how far we've come down? I don't want to hear Dem, Republican. All I'd want to know is where's my check----period. Most GI's would tell you that they don't want to hear all that stuff, just the check plain and simple. I agree with Trump 100%. We're the laughing stock of the world right now. IF we default, 20 years from now, 30 years from now, no one will remember who Reid or Boehner was, but they'll remember who the sitting President was.

Our loyal troops shouldn't need to be asking "will we get paid?"

Our troops should be asking "what the hell are we doing in this useless @!$%# hole Afghanistan?"

Obama promised to end the wars within month of his presidency. Then that lier won the Nobel Peace Prize and turned around and increases troop numbers in this absolutely useless, waist-full "war".

Waging two useless wars, (one immoral war based upon lies), on credit/borrowed money is one of the most ignorant endeavors in to history of the world. The Republicans and "W", (the worst president in U.S. history) can take full credit for this monumental ignorance and for bankrupting the United States.

grunt? ''The "new" teaparty House passed the biggest DOD bill ever'' 9 billion less than the {spender in chief}Obama requested!

The sad part to your statement is that one of the biggest costs for the Pentagon, is health care - thanks to thousands injured from two unfunded wars.

The Republicans passed a budget bill months ago, but are now trying to get out of paying for that bill which they passed? The tea-party has only enjoyed the majority in the house, it will be interesting to see how their tune changes when they become the minority...

If this president is foolish enough to NOT pay the military during this crisis, the public will think twice about wanting to vote for him in 2012.

Not only the President, but also congress. After all it is congress who refuses to come up with a bipartisan plan that is acceptable for all. I for one would also not vote for Obama in 2012 if the military goes without pay for even one day beyond scheduled payment. I would also not vote for my senator or representative who is currently sitting in office. It would definitely be time to vote out ALL sitting elected federal officials

Either solution presented by Boehner or Reid is a stop gap to be dealt with at a later date

Ironically that later date will be after they are out of office and won't have to deal with it.

No Boehner wants to kick the can down the road 6 months until right before the Presidential elections. This is purely about politics as the R's have admitted all along (haven't you gotten your lecture from Rush Limbaugh today? this is about defeating Obama--If you take the country down, so be it.)

If we had a real leader he would not be fear mongering like the current resident of the white house. We have plenty of money coming in daily to keep essential services going. He is just trying to scare the military, seniors etc. with his nonsense. He should buck up and tell the truth. If he does not get his way then he will not cut them off or he knows he is really done. What a self serving clown.

a election is coming up; troops will be paid, social security will be paid medicare will be paid and most of all welfare, food stamps and medicaid will be paid( that is the administrations base); you are not going to let the troops hang out to dry, you are not going to piss off 45 million elderly voters( and they vote 2to 1 over general population; if not you have decided not to seek re-election !

Why are you so sure they will be paid? The last time they played this "crisis" game in Jan., they withheld 1/2 of the military pay. The people that are actually EARNING the money they get, and they cut them first? Cut the welfare, cut the congress pay, cut the grants, cut the subsidies, but DON'T cut the military pay!

The worst part of this entire fiasco, is the one thing EVERYONE should paying attention to:

These Tea Party fruitcakes (under the guise of the republican party) have successfully broken our government, and are pitting our constitution against ITSELF. This is the most unAmerican thing I've ever seen happen in this country. Our constitution was drafted through, and under the express premise of compromise. It determined the very structure of our governing system, based upon that same premise. And now that structure is crumbling before our very eyes.

This country was built on compromise, and now compromise is being questioned as "a dirty word". This goes completely AGAINST what the constitution commands of our congress to be its determinate basis for fair and effective governance. For the people.

Look at what the "debt ceiling" itself actually is. Its a provision that affords 2 completely ignorant and unconstitutional actions:

1) under the 14th amendment, the validity of the public debt "shall not be questioned"

How idiotic is that? Creating a provision that expressly questions an earlier provision? Ridiculous.

2) it gives a body of congress, for whatever reasoning they choose to attach to it, a vehicle by which to "force concession" from an opposition body of THAT SAME congress. The very OPPOSITE of the compromise the constitution commands of congress.

The debt ceiling, although perhaps developed with very good intention as a vehicle to protect from excessive government spending, is unconstitutional in and of itself. And quite frankly, it was provisioned in AFTER the 14th amendment.

Therefore, the "debt ceiling" itself is an unconstitutional provision.

When enough REAL Americans (regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.) finally realize this, there WILL be hell to pay. Its a building sentiment already.

chrystal o; I agree pay the troops first.

alan o 34...; Congress alone has the power of the purse, they alone set the budget, set the limit and also set the taxes; the 14th Amendment clause was limited to those debts accumulated from the insurrection(civil war), not to give the third branch of Government power reserved to the other branches (congress, supreme court) !

saxon,

I agree completely.

However, when imminent harm is threatening the well being of the people, and congress CANNOT determine how best to avert that harm, it is the President's DUTY by executive order of the constitution to act.

Any act of the President, if questioned by congress, may ONLY be determined by the Supreme Court. And if you think they'll determine that the President acted maliciously, you'll find yourself mistaken.

The Supreme Court will determine this a "political issue", and refer it back to congress to resolve amongst the legislature. A process that could take a decade.

Count on it.

alan O; I hope you are wrong, if the administration would act in this matter; Congress would start impeachment proceeding immediately, that would shut down all legislation for the rest of the year; we would then be faced with a imperial president, which could lead to insurrection.

saxon,

Not exactly.

Clinton wasn't impeached, not for lack of evidence or standing, but for lack of time vs. term, and the appearance of blatant retaliation in the eyes of the public.

As long as the President doesn't exceed the borrowing authority he extends by executive order to the treasury to service the debt, there will be no grounds for impeachment. The treasury can pay whatever debt the congress has already incurred, and continues to incur, ie: appropriations already legislated.

Personally, I think that's EXACTLY what he should do. He should then call for the immediate investigations of our entire congressional body and its processes that have played part in this mess, to determine ultimate responsibility.

I am not rich or have a big savings account but

They can withhold my SS and military retirement checks and pay those on active duty !!!!!!

alan o 34..; I agree, I miss understood what you were saying, i thought you were referring to the president raising the debt limit on his own; yes, the administration does have the power to direct the Treasury to pay certain debts, and fore-go payment of others; I believe that is what the Administration is going to do; their are many non essential monthly payments that can be delayed without any major upset; they have enough income coming in to pay all soldiers, social security, medicare, government salary's and expenses, all overseas wars and all interest on the debt; the problem then becomes entitlements, welfare, food stamps, housing aid, utility's aid, medicaid, aid to dept children, ssi, cell phones, daily nutrition programs, transportation allowance and state aid for indigent programs, those amount to a very major amount of the monthly budget, even more than the 3 wars we are fighting .

First of all I would like to thank you all. Second I believe you as well as troops stationed in other countries should come home as well as you are not appreciated so let them protect their own ass. Third I believe it was David who said you could not be used to secure our borders. I'm pretty certain you all took an oath to protect America from all threats foreign or domestic. If 1 or 2 people sneak across our borders you don't get involved. However when that number is in the tens of millions that constitutes an invasion which definitely involves you. This is one of the reasons checks might not go out the other is b.s. pork barrel spending as well as passing out hundreds of billions of dollars to foreign countries charity starts at home. Just before WW2 ended the President (I think he was the last one who cared about America first) realized there would be millions of U.S. servicemen coming home and would need jobs. His solution was to deport several million illegals so those men and women would have jobs. Why are they to the pandering to the illegals if not for their votes? Will they continue to receive money food stamps housing while tens of millions of Americans living on S.S. wind up on the street because they can't pay their rent. By the way S.S. is NOT an entitlement it is money withheld from our checks while we were working. Now it is paying for illegals will they get theirs before you. The answer is YES you are needed at home we are being invaded and robbed by your Commander-in-Chief as well as congress. Grab the next A.F. or Navy vessel and get back here as soon as possible before you have nowhere to return to.

To All The Military People who have posted here....Thank you for your brave service to our country and for the sacrifices that you and your families have made to keep me and mine safe. I am a 60 year old retired nurse. I have not served in the military, but did do a little stint in the Kosovar refugee camps--nothing, I admit, to what you are doing. But, it did give me a taste of what you are up against and it must feel so frustrating to be so far away, or so injured, that you have no way of doing anything about what may happen to you.

I promise that I will do whatever I can to advocate for your pay. I do believe that this is another scare tactic, but one that may delay your pay. I am so sorry that you are facing these problems. These threats are not necessary. I agree that our politicians are so financially involved with contractors that they are going to continue to put you in harms way in order to line their pockets. You boys (and girls, sorry) need to be brought home to rebuild the infrastructure of America and we need you to protect our southern border. I am so regretful that you are where you are. You are appreciated and respected by the American people. We know that you will do your duty as you have always done--but, you also have a vote and a voice. I am so glad that you are all brave enough to express it. Again, thank you. To the sick/injured soldier....I hope you get well soon and are able to enjoy your life. I would happily give up my disability check for you to get yours. It isn't that much, but it may help. I like beans and rice. Do well, Soldiers. Know that we care.

President Obama has a plan, one that includes just about everything that you Republicans want so badly too, except that it also includes the elimination of some of your favorite tax loopholes, and a slight increase in the top tax rate, Boehner has even said so himself. So anyone claiming that President Obama has no plan is claiming a falsehood.

Boehner had a plan a few days ago but trying to force a Constitutional amendment on top of the plan, forcing another huge economic distraction before the 2012 election, isn't going anywhere. It would be better to sit here on our hands until 2012 than it would be to have to revisit this same angry discussion in just a few more months. There has been virtually no legislative agenda ever since the Tea Party came to Congress, since they vastly prefer blackmail and trying to force their way over working through the democratic process.

As I said yesterday, perhaps it is time for Boehner to quit trying to pacify the Tea Party and come-up with a bill that the non-Tea Party Republicans and the Democrats in the House could both support, which might have a chance of passing the Senate too??? The Tea Party wants Boehner run-off as Speaker too, and for some rabid hardliner to take his place. Passing a bill that the House Democrats could support might be a golden opportunity for Boehner and the remaining Republicans to distance themselves from the party that can't be reasoned with?

david-475776..This would be funny if not for being so dumb..to blame the president for everything..you had best read what the republicans are looking to do..their bill will effect everyone..including the military...who,,for all the talk in congress get no where near the respect they should get for protecting this country. Even now..our vets are looked down on by congress. Both parties are responsible for the problems this cointry faces today....yet their over blown ego's allow them to place blame on everyone else. Both parties this yteasr have not addressed the debt problem until now..they have been too busy naming roads...passing their own pet projects ...naming post offices around the country..yet have no time to do what I thought they were elected to do..None of them are doing the work required of them for the voters of this country..they are all too busy getting in position for elections to come..and care less about the voters as long as they can get huge funding from lobbyist in washington.

I saw something about the "priority" as to whom should get paid. At the BOTTOM of the list should be congress. They are looking out for themselves and for sure they aren't worth a confederate penny.

At the TOP of the list should be our MILITARY, especially those fighting in the big sandbox on the other side of the pond. They are worth a h3ll of a lot more than those who think they are important.

Second on the list should be our VETERANS, many of whom gave up a lot to fight for us. I have seen the results of their committment to the military for many years.

Somewhere way down at the bottom goes our political bums and bimbos. Most of them have given NOTHING to our country.

This body of congress is truly the worst in the history of our nation.

Our President had us on a path toward improvement, and in the end, the numbers will prove it. If you look at the legislation that has been passed from the house of representatives this year, its blatantly obvious the sheer obstructionism by the republican party.

Seriously. Go look at the bills on this site: http://www.house.gov/ , and you can see for yourself the legislation that has gone out to the senate.

Its ridiculous. This is a "self-inflicted crisis", perpetrated largely by the republicans, and it will lead to a new, unprecedented age of austerity in this country if its not stopped before it gets much worse.

A lot of people will be severely impacted on Monday, as soon as the market opens. CNN has already pointed out that this "crisis" has cost "the American people" in excess of $700bn. Average, everyday citizens. Hard working people who will lose even more by the time this thing is over.

Watch. Soon enough one media outlet or another will point out just how far up our poverty line has been pushed, as a direct effect of the horrendous dereliction of this congress' duties.

Right now, on the Senate floor, republicans have filibustered Harry Reid's bill.

A bill that is based ENTIRELY on agreements already made in earlier proposals, by BOTH sides.

Blatant obstructionism too force the President to concede to things the American people surely would not want.

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

First off I do not support Michelle Bachman, I will vote for Obama before I vote for her. There is money to pay the interest on the debts, pay Social Security Benefits, Medicare, the troops, the veterans, and federal employees. A failure to increase the Debt ceiling will disrupt the DEA, the Justice department, infrastructure repairs, all the programs we count on to keep our lives safe. A default can be averted even if there is no debt limit increase. Our country will not be able to borrow money if there is a crisis without a debt limit increase. The resulting budget will impose draconian cuts on our countries federal budget.

1992 -- The United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) Earth Summit takes place in Rio de Janeiro this year, headed by Conference Secretary-General Maurice Strong. The main products of this summit are the Biodiversity Treaty and Agenda 21, which the U.S. hesitates to sign because of opposition at home due to the threat to sovereignty and economics. The summit says the first world's wealth must be transferred to the third world.

The DISEASE must be addressed not only the symptoms.

United States out of United Nations.

Then,

Ban the Federal Reserve Bank.

Ban Fiat currency.

Ban fractional Banking.

Then,

Close 90 percent of military bases.

Reduce Military budget by 80 percent.

Enforce our borders.

Allow alien entry by green card only.

Then,

Eliminate Homeland Security.

Eliminate criminal CIA activity.

Eliminate war on drugs.

Legalize marijuana.

Free non violent prisoners.

Stop all privatization of government functions.

Then,

Term limits for Politians.

Eliminate Electoral College.

Limit political campaign funds.

Ban all professional lobbyists.

Then,

Restore funding to Social Security.

Begin single payer universal health care.

Eliminate useless government agencies.

Line by line review of pork.

Review Politian’s benefits and salary.

Tariffs on all foreign manufactured items.

Then,

Prosecute governmental Traitors.

Eliminate CFR, IMF, Bilderburg, etc.

Enforce the Constitution.

ANY agreed upon bill, BEFORE its signed by the President, should be read to the American people IN THE MEDIA in a televised address.

At least then, we can finally resolve the issue off who exactly is demanding what, and our votes can legitimately determine the will of the people.

NOTHING LESS should be acceptable.

There will be two options if the debt limit ceiling is not raised. 1.) The Treasury secretary decides what will be paid, and when. 2.) President Obama may invoke authority to create a budget regardless of what the house wants done, based on the 14th amendment.

I would be content to read the text version of the bill online Alan after it's signed. We down to 78 hours now before default.

wade; if he does what you say, no nation will buy the bonds, since their legal advisors will inform them that they are issued in contravention of the laws of the United States, and thus will not be redeemed!

Daleth,

After stomping all our the US Constitution to soften it to your taste, I am surprised that you haven't also used it to wipe your rear end. READ IT and see how many of your proposals run counter to its' language and intent.

Now to business,

Cngress, specifically the House of Representatives is responsible for raising revenues and authorizing expenditures. The Senate may propose changes or alternatives, but is NOT supposed to originate financial legislation. Also NOWHERE is the President mentioned as having any role but administering Congressionally passed legislation including finances. It is NOT a Constituional obligation of the President to submit any proposed budget, outline or otherwise. However, since the bureaucracy nominally works under the President, it is most practical that each Department prepare a budget to submit to the House. However, if the House chooses to ignore or refuses to vote on those requests, or refuses to raise revenues, NO budget will be created. Indeed, very few years in the past 30 have had anything but Continuing Resolutions and authorisations in increase the Federal Debt. So the REAL FAULT lies in the House (and the Senate which must accept, with or without changes in the House's actions). Only after Congress acts, can the President accept or veto the legislation. And the President's veto can be over-ridden by votes in each of the two houses.

Congress has used our money to buy their re-elections for decades. They curry favor with the seniors by raising benefits and lowering age requirements without adjusting revenues to cover the added costs. They curry favor with business and corporate sponsors by favorable tax breaks and federally funded projects serving certain companies or industries. And the curry favor with the general public by consistently refusing to raise the neccesary revenues (under-taxing income and excise collections). And yes, BORROWING money to fund programs without adequate revenues (taxes and fees) is still SPENDING money. So the Bush tax cuts represent a HUGE SPENDING PROGRAM. So was the totally unfunded Prescription Medicine provisions under Medicare. This is exactly what has happened through either party controlling Congress and the White House.

No debt problem solution can work without raising revenue, increasing taxes, excises and fees. Likewise, re-employing 9million out-of-work Americans will raise revenues through increased income tax revenues and other revenues from secondary sources. Finally, fully employing an estimated 12million marginally employed will also further raise revenues. The cost will be higher prices. And no employment plan can work without increased consumer demand. The hard answer for Congress is to approve a real debt ceiling increase, contain spending and RAISE taxes. NO ONE will like this, but as the President said last week, it's time to eat our peas.

Earlier today on CNN, freshman republican Senator Rand Paul stated that he would only vote for Harry Reid's plan if it were amended to include a balanced budget amendment:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-don-lemon-and-sen-rand-paul-clash-over-the-tea-partys-role-in-the-debt-crisis/

Two days ago, he also stated the same on FOX News. Here's what Fareed Zakaria said about this insistence of the Tea Party ideology, and its improper ransoming of our nation's economy:

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/07/cnn-host-tea-party-debt-dealings-counter-constitutional-anti-democratic/

Zakaria is EXACTLY right:

CNN host Fareed Zakaria was a guest on Anderson Cooper’s AC360 Friday night, where he said that the ultra-conservative tea party faction of the Republican Party was sending a message that “we’ll blow up the country if you don’t listen to us. We will hold hostage the credit of the United States, the good standing of the United States and we’ll blow it up.”

“They were not elected dictators of the United States,” he said of their slowing of the debt ceiling negotiation process.

Anyone who can't see the serious danger this type of legislative practice poses to our national security, is ignorant.

The desire for a balanced budget amendment isn't the issue. Its the way in which its being brutally forced upon EVERY American citizen, without proper legislative due process. So you have to ask, what else is being forced down the throats of the American people under these types of ideologies?

No matter how you dress this up, because the debt ceiling legislation (which has ALWAYS been a matter of simple "housekeeping" under EVERY other President) has been tied by the republicans to deficit reduction, they gave the Tea Party a gift-wrapped gun to hold to the head of the American people.

Instead of the Tea Party being a vehicle for promoting the stringent foundation of our constitution, "compromise", they've effectively become a tool with which to hammer ideologically driven legislation into our constitution. Effectively holding the entire nation hostage, until that legislation is written into law, or even worse, amended into our constitution.

This CANNOT be allowed to happen, and should be considered an act of treason against the United States, punishable by death.

And that goes for ANY party denomination.

My husband is an active duty member of the Navy. He has been told that it is extremely possible that his pay will be withheld, and that if they have dependents (wife, husband, children) they need to let them know to be prepared. They have been told that if this happens, EVENTUALLY, they will get paid, but they cannot give a date when (it's whenever those on Capitol Hill decide to stop acting like 1st graders during recess and get some solution to this problem). During the time that the pay is being withheld, my husband must still continue to serve. So, while his family is at home wondering how to make ends meet, because the money is being withheld, he has to still be out there, working a job. He doesn't get to stop working until they pay him again.

For those of you who are not in the military, and are criticizing the service men and women for wondering if they get paid, please keep in mind that this is a job for them and this is how they bring in money to support their families (whether you agree with it or not). This is the 2nd time this year the government has threatened to withhold the pay, and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. It's extremely stressful to those of us who rely on it to take care of our families each month.

Sorry but I think Mr. Obama will come through and pay the troops and SS as a political step. How many troops and older folks will say "Great he got my pay to me so I will vote for him." It is all politics with Washington no matter what side of the aisle you are on. Prepare to get the shaft "again" from them and we can all continue to pay for it as well as future generations for a looooooong loooooooong time.

i just don't want to hear any of these weasels, particularly the Republicans, who have shoved the flag down our gullets for year, talk anymore about "patriotism"

there is nothing "patriotic" about causing troops in the field or elderly pensioners worry about whether their next check will arrive

there is nothing "patriotic" about selling our nation's soul to Wall Street and massive global credit interests resulting in the destruction of our productive capacity, our economic competitiveness, and the livelihoods of millions

there is nothing patriotic about completely dismantling the public sector in order to protect rich people from taxation

maybe the Republicans are more guilty of serving the wealthy puppetmasters, but don't fool yourselves: both parties serve Wall Street, and neither gives more than a little thought to "Main Street"

the system is broken, and anyone who thinks the current participants of either party will repair it is delusional

It will not be illegal Saxon. Section 4 of the 14th amendment states clearly,

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

What part of the above is not crystal clear Saxon? If the GOP in power doesn't act to raise the debt ceiling, I will consider it to be in a state of Rebellion against the United States.

Joseph Lowrey,

two things. First:

there is nothing patriotic about completely dismantling the public sector in order to protect rich people from taxation

These are the people that scripture defines as "the least of these". And I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Because the truth is, while it is undeniable that some of our safety net may fall victim to a segment of society, it is simply disingenuous for ANYONE to claim this segment comprises any "majority" of qualifiers. Statistically, these programs help FAR MORE than they fall victim to.

Second:

the system is broken, and anyone who thinks the current participants of either party will repair it is delusional

while I certainly agree with aspects of the sentiment, I disagree that the entire system is broken. What's broken is not the system, but those who we put in place who take advantage of it, for the lack of proper enforcement mechanisms. However, its certainly possible (especially after this fiasco) to fix that, by instituting such mechanisms.

Like a bi-annually elected oversight committee, consisting of a mixture of constitutional scholars and lawmakers, who's responsibility it would be to protect the public interest and well being from ideological legislative practice, and to prohibit special interests from corrupting the legislative process our constitution created, and is meant to foster.

I have no problem with corporations or rich folks getting richer. More power to them. But they should NEVER be allowed to use our constitutional legal processes as an influence. Especially when such egregious misuse of our political system tilts the scale so far against "the people", and into their own favor. The people don't want to share the wealth of the highly successful. They simply want to be "eligible" for the same provisions under which the richest among us found that wealth, WITHOUT a corrupted legislative body of government tilting the scales against them.

Any such suspicious "gaming" should be considered a violation of constitutional duties, and subject the violator to immediate suspension from congress, pending further committee investigation. If no such gamesmanship exists, the member would be reinstated to congress, to finish the balance of their elected term. If evidence of a clear violation is founded and determined, the member is immediately expelled from congress, with all remaining pay and benefit removed in disgrace, and with prejudice, never to be eligible to hold elected office within our government again.

For this opportunity (for lack of a better word) to foster in positive change after this fiasco is resolved, would be an even bigger travesty than the clown show we've had to witness to these past 8 months, from this incredible idiocy of a congressional session in our nation's history.

For this type of embarrassment to be perpetrated and projected upon the American people, by our own government on the world stage, is a thing for this congressional session to be greatly ashamed of.

I also think the media should be held more accountable as well. Especially when they lie so blatantly, that many hold those lies as truth. Like that stupid commercial that tells all the idiots among us that China holds "most" of our debt. Such blatant falsehoods should be admonished, the perpetrators heavily fined, and the material ordered immediately removed from the air.

This isn't the President's fault, and the blame is not for him to bear. The President is NOT constitutionally "obligated" to put forth a "plan" of any kind. Now matter how incessantly the republicans may profess this, it doesn't make it any more true. But now, thanks to the ineptitude of certain members of this congress, he may unfairly shoulder the blame. We will see in the outcomes of EVERY upcoming election until November 2012.

Wade; authorized by law is the catch; only Congress may hold the purse strings; that section of the 14th, you are referring to was the Civl War payment act, notice the words insurrection. some far out professors are trying to say something different, the 95% of the legal community say they are dead wrong.

Saxon

I am with you on this one. "Civl War payment act"

The amendment is not dated in scope Saxon. The point is moot because we are so close to a debt ceiling increase. The full scope of the 14th Amendment is in effect now. Congress may not, by inaction, default on the debt. They choose too, it enables the president to act to avoid chaos. Your experts are wrong in this.

wade; there is no possibility that the Treasury will default on any existing obligations; the tax revenue coming in each month is way move than enough to cover all existing mandated obligations, interest on debt, pay to all persons serving in the armed forces and all government employees, all on going military obligations, social security, Medicare, running of all government buildings and military posts, all federal law enforcement all expenses of running the government; the short fall is only a National problem, Medicaid, food stamps, aid to children, housing allowance, utility allowance, monthly payments to welfare, funding of programs, such as studying the mating habits of worms, to building a museum for corn, etc. ,the default is nothing but a boggy-man trying to scare the American people !

an yes the 14th amendment does not give the authority to incur debt to the executive , it is reserved to Congress alone.

Section 4 reaffirmed the United States' commitment to pay its Civil War debt, while declaring all debts and obligations incurred by the Confederate government "illegal and void." Section 5 enabled, and continues to enable, Congress to pass "appropriate legislation" to enforce the provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/fourteenth+amendment

No where in the 14th amendment nor any ruling on it by the Supreme Court can I find anything that would allow the President to take any action on his own and sole authority. And section 5 clearly states...."enable, Congress to pass "appropriate legislation" to enforce the provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment " not the President

Night Hawk what part of shall not be questioned do you not understand. Either the congress acts or the president must to avoid disaster. That applies today as much as it did during the civil war. So yes the president may act. The house may choose impeachment as a option, but there are not enough votes in the senate to force Obama out. If Congress refuses to act they forfiet control to the president.

A sad state of affairs when our troops have to worry about staying alive and paying bills too.

Talk about letting people down! The Tea/Gop are entirely destructive, even to morale let alone the purse!

It is a DAMN DISGRACE that they even have to ask this question, and what's even more angering is that this isn't the first time THIS YEAR that active duty pay has been held hostage by the three ring circus playing out in D.C. !!!

Argue all you want, you clowns (that's yet another bi-partisan clown reference), but pay our troops and take care of our veterans and seniors !!!

Wade

I understand the 14 th very well, If you pick to understand it your way, power to you. I gave you a link to read, but that will not change your opinion, which is fine by me, not trying to change it. Just expressing my take and others on it , doesn't make me or you "more" right then the other, just our personal take on it., I am no Constitutional lawyer, nor do I pertend to be, But I (as well as you ) have good solid analytical skills, we just seem to come up with different takes on it.

saxon,

You are incorrect. We (the US Federal government) have deficits because our expenses exceed our income. You also do not seem to understand cash flow. Even if our income at the end of August exceeded our expenses. Debt, wages and bills not paid when due at the first of the month represent default. Issuing papers of writ (IOU's) represent default. The governments cash flow is such that it will have insufficient funds to write all mandated checks when due after August 2.

Daleth is right about 1992. That's when Bush Sr. signed NAFTA into law and allowed our jobs to gradually and eventually become a domino effect, leaving the country for less regulations and sweat shop wages. We were right at the time to be concerned about what it would do to the economy. You're lucky if customer service is in the country, let alone what you just bought your kids. As long as NAFTA is in place, kiss your jobs goodbye permanently. Second off, privatization of American money being printed by the Federal Reserve is forbidden in the US Constitution. They are not allowed to privatize our money. But if you do some research, the Federal Reserve is not a government owned agency. It's a private company. And Bernake even threatened to shut the economy down right before congress if they did an audit of his company. If that's not terrorism for you, I don't know what is. And if national security was a legitimate issue along with the 'war' on drugs, they would have secured the borders and kept them that way over 20 years ago. The whole idea that our government really gives a hoot on these issues is nothing short of a joke. And technically, if you WANT to create some jobs, and bounce the economy back, Daleth was right. Remove the UN, remove NAFTA and other Free Trade Agreements, Remove the Federal Reserve (esp Bernake), Remove the lobbyists, corporation bribes, and the bankers who have paralized our country with their greed, legalizing marijuana would actually be a good thing. Countless drug 'busts' and arrests have not stopped anyone from buying or selling it. A professional economists told the government they were losing BILLIONS in revenue by not doing so. And technically, its a huge job market. Not just for growing it, selling it or smoking it. You can make oils for cooking and incense, papers, fabrics, canvas and other products from the plant. There's a company in Australia that has a process that makes it into a building material as strong as the 2 x 4's in your house now. And it's far more renewable than regrowing forests. If you wanted a way to save the planet, this can help you do that. So then you would have jobs also for the complete manufacturing of the product in it's different forms, packaging, shipping, receiving, stocking, retailers, etc. Some countries use the seeds as a food source too. And there are species out there that are THC FREE. So, instead of just looking through a microscope at just one part of the situation or argument, I suggest people take a step back and zoom out to get a better idea of the whole picture. There's more than some realize to what others may be saying or what actually has led us to this situation to start with.

AC Robertson - BTY - I was on active duty when the Clinton cuts came down...

I survived the President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces (RIF) of the US Military. So now here we are again repeating the same mistake and expecting a different result. Many of the Soldiers within my Command were buying their own toilet paper (this is NOT funny, it is a matter of sanitation (disease prevention)), the equipment parts scrongers became the most important personnel in the unit (to retain an ERC-A Rating on the USR (Unit Status Report).

It is because 92% of US Citizens have never Served in the US Military, as to why most do not know what being in a "Peace time" US Military is like. This is why I honestly believe that it is time for the other 92% of US Citizens to endure the hardships of the US Military (Ground Combat Forces, not the USAF nor the USN as President Obama's April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts of the USAF and USN indicate less USAF and USN are needed) thru a US Mandatory Compulsory US Military Service (no exemptions, unless hospitalized or institutionalized at a mental facility. As stated by Candidate Obama (A Campaign Promise) during the Presidential Debates, "US Military Service is a Civic Duty", "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement".

AC Robertson - Then you can almost count on being released early from active duty and then having to fight for any medical or education benefits...

Secretary of Defense Gates already told us, the last time he was here (Afghanistan) as to what President Obama is demanding (chops to US Military Medical, Dental, Vision, and "Benefits" (Job Related)).

I am so f**king glad that in two years I can no longer be involuntarily recalled to US Military Active Duty (again, again, again) for "Matters of National Security".

yes,troops can not get payed if the debt is not signed. i was stationed in Cuba in the middle 70's and the budget was not signed. everyone stationed there did "not" get payed for a week. i was stationed with there with the minefield maintenance team.

SEMPER FI

DANNY P

Semper Fi Danny!

You want compulsory service in peace time? I seem to remember a suggestion by Obama that youth receiving government aid for education be required to "serve" their country through public service of some kind, not a promise to force everyone into the military.

While I am grateful for your active role in the military and hope you remain safe for the duration of your service, I am also grateful that you had the choice to serve and that it was not forced. What freedoms would the military be protecting if we surrendor our right to choose for ourselves wether to participate in wars on foreign soil usually for corporate gain?

As for suggesting Mr. Gates said your president was demanding to cut your benefits, I be very skeptical of such claims considering there have been numerous articles quoting Gates supporting the reduction of military expense. I don't recall any articles stating Obama wants benefit cuts for the military, but I do recall an article on Gates suggesting military benefit cuts could save the F-35. While the United States military budget far exceeds the rest of the world's COMBINED spending, do you not agree this would be a good place to cut spending?

I don't know about other veterans, but I used to think that compulsory service should be required before I joined. After I was in, I found out that probably 25% of those -that volunteered- should not have been allowed to finish boot camp. Just my two cents.

I know a few people being ****** over by the VA and their idea of taking care of our vets after they are brought home. No one is there to teach them how to live in a non-war zone. Medical care by the VA is a fight tooth and nail to get what they should be getting without all the legal hassles and BS. The 'how to' book for how the VA is run is prolly written by Dr. Seus or another child author. Not someone who has any idea as to what they are doing.

Actually, we should install trigger locks, to prevent "accidental" discharges.

No kidding {DvT} no kidding....It would be resolved in about 1 hour.

Actually, we should install trigger locks, to prevent "accidental" discharges.

i insisst on a background check if you are going to give them guns....then we will just have to worry about giving them water

Actually guys, I think locking the weapons into full automatic might translate in a more permanent solution. Just deploy them in an inwardly facing circle, with our best lobbyists and financial gurus in the center. For advice, of course. And Grover Norquist to remind everyone about his signed pledges.

I like Bill's idea. Only I would have put Congress in Iraq or Afghanistan. The only they get out, is by getting their sh** straight and doing what they are paid to do.

Where are the Democratic budget proposals???

It has been over 850+days and they have produced ZERO...

The problem is, that every time the so called dems have any ideas, Boehner and his cronies cry, "Oh Hell No!" and refuse to compromise, it is a Great Big Joke to the American Citizen and now to the American Soldier, Welcome to Big Politics and Big Money, screw the average worker/military family as we are the slaves to the grind. Look at politics like Professional Wrestling, they are enemies until the show is over, then they go have drinks afterwards and laugh at the rest of us, and we blindly pay them to screw us over....Yee-Fu**ing Haw!!!!

It is an issue on both sides. Boehner has advanced two possible bills and both times the Senate, Dem controlled, has essentially gleefully torn it down the middle. No side wants to compromise..it is all of theirs and none of the other's.

Reid's bill does not include closing tax loopholes which the Democrats wanted. So, the Democrats have already compromised.

The troops will be paid. It is the US military that is ONE of the few things that we are constitutionally required to adequately maintain and fund for the defense of the nation. If somehow Obama fixes it to where the troops don't get paid, he will be officially authorizing the total destruction of America and the constitution it was built on, and frankly he can not afford that because America has had enough of his $hit.

Remember also that one half of the cuts in the Obama/Reid bill are savings from ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ($1 trillion). Another $350 billion are savings from reduced interest payments based on less spending from stopping the wars. This is all smoke and mirrors folks. They would actually have to immediately stop the wars for these savings to occur and that seems unlikely to me. Given the smoke and mirror economics, there is very little likely difference in savings between the republican and the democratic plan. We have a bill in the Senate. Maybe instead of just voting against it (who's the party of "no"?). The could reasonably amend it and send it back to the House for consideration. But no, the playing of politics and reelection efforts must continue. Nero is fiddling and Rome is burning.

STexan,

I know of no constitutional mandate that the US military be maintained or paid but I could certainly be wrong. The military has not been paid before and amazingly, the United States and the Constitution are still here (if not a bit shaky at the moment). I do agree that military pay should be a top priority along with interest on the debt (so we don't actually default) and social security payments but I don't think paying the military is a constitutional issue.

The Obama/Reid bill???

Where is it???

NOT ONE Democrat bill has been voted on...

Concerning obama - The CBO stated they could not grade a speech...

The CBO score found that Reid’s proposed plan would slice the deficit by $2.2 trillion over a decade — with more than half of that coming from assumptions that the United States will wind down wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. But Reid still does not have the votes to pass it out of the Democrat controlled Senate..

I wonder what the CBO expects the Libyan escapade will cost in the future. It has already cost the USA $1+BILLION...

The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution states in part:

"Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Quit trying to put this on the Democrats. Counter offers have been made and compromise offered. The ones that are not compromising are the Republicans. Why? They want to extend tax cuts to the rich and tax loopholes for corporations, both of which are rolling in profits right now. Then they refuse to substantially cut military spending, despite the fact that we are currently accounting for 46.5 percent of the world's military spending.

John, your funny.

Republicans did nothing but scare Americans during the health care debate. So much so that Americans were believing the lie about death panels.

Eric-913730,

Naive. President Obama's Health Care Reform had nothing good to do with Health Care Reform. The main goal was to get almost a Billion USDs of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions (where President Obama's 1 Billion came from). In 2010, his buddy "Mr. Corporate America" Legal Briefed the US Supreme Court, that to Rule against Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions would invalidate the 2008-2009 Elections for his admitted violations prior to and during the 2008-2009 Elections of US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act.

The deals President Obama made were (in President Obama's Proposal February 22, 2010, included in the US Law (Health Care Reform), under the Source of New Revenues Section), the Insurance Industry gets $67 Billion USDs, the Medical Device Industry gets $20 Billion USDs, and the Pharmaschetical Industry gets $23 Billion USDs. The US Citizens (US Budget) gets the Bill for $1.7 Trillion USDs (adjusted for Inflation, $2.1 Trillion USDs).

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

Also reference PBS Documentary "Obama's Deal".

So instead of REAL Health Care, like President FDR's Universal Health Care For All US Citizens (current price would be $42 for US Citizens to receive Unlimited Medical Treatments, by getting the Insurance Corporations out of the Medical Profession)(this is what Senator Kennedy (RIP) wanted), all US Citizens end up footing the Bill for President Obama's Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions of $1 Billion USDs.

Decreases cost 80% (last part of video) by Doctor David Ores, New York.1:45

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5247963n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

Wake up, get that Demoncrap, Repugnant sh!t, and the contents of In Depends (Adult Diapers) out of your eyes and do the research (yes, that includes reading the whole f**king Health Care Reform Act, and President Obama's Proposal (that was included in the Health Care Reform Act).

mountainmike-1199289 #4.10,

stop spamming the same baloney that was already explained to you on other Newsvine Topics (Taxing the "Rich", US Defense Budget). Show everyone something in writing proposed by the Demoncraps that was passed by the House of Representatives. Or are you like 2 years old and it all has to be explained to you again (Cause + Effects = Results, Historical Precedents, Duties and Responsibilities of the Senate and the House of Representatives ("Lawmakers"), Executive Branch, etc..).

The main point is that both sides have put up something. Instead of taking what is offered and working with it as a base start, which would be the sensible thing to do, both sides look immediately at the other and say forget it.

No bill in it's beginning is going to be 100% perfect..that is why the idea is to take a look, modify accordingly and get the stupid thing passed.

both sides look immediately at the other and say forget it.

And without realizing that there is a90% chance they are looking at the same areas.

How pitiful the Democrats are to try to hold the military and senior citizens as human shields so that the spoiled child, Obama and his fellow thieves can extort MORE out of America. What more do the Democrooks want from the taxpayers. we know what sound decisions they can make, made Reid Majority Leader, made the head of the San Fagcisco group Speaker of the House, put a Muslim in the white house, shafted America with Obamacare, are allowing MORE illegals to steal from the system, ARMED the drug cartel and BAILED OUT Obama's, Harry's & Nancy's Wall Street backers, increased the cost of energy in this country to support their Middle East FRIENDS and caved in to the other scum bags of the earth, the CHINESE. Let's not forget that by bailing out the Unions, sorry, I meant Chrysler and GM, the taxpayers AGAIN were screwed by Osama Obama and his 40 thieves by losing 1.3 BILLION on the sale of Chrysler stock.

Way to go Democrats and NOW you want to blame EVERYONE but yourselves for putting America into bankruptcy and default. EXCELLENT WORK!!!!!!

They claim they are trying to save America, BUT from WHOM? VOTE every DEMOCRAT out and KEEP them OUT. The Liberals are saying that the GOP is trying to protect Big Business, BUT WHO bailed Wall Street, WHO bailed out the Auto Industry, WHO has had control of the House for 6 YEARS and the Senate for the PAST 2 YEARS and has YET to do anything about what they are NOW screaming about?????? Hypocrites are all the Democrats are. They are doing nothing more right now than to try to come up with some FEEBLE excuse to get re-elected. WHY??? Because they don't have a leg to stand on. I claim myself as an Independent, but I feel that NO ONE in Washington has a clue. and the sheep that are following are more clueless than they are. The Democrats have NO respect for our men and women in uniform. If you remembeer they tried to hold up military appropriations for our service people before. HARRY you are an A-Hole to the MAX. Why don't YOU and your BELOVED ILLEGALS that voted you back in office, MOVE TO MEXICO you P.O.S.

The troops were not respected by those who sent them to die for no reason in Iraq so why will the Republicans respect them now and pay them?

I'm not sure I understood your comment. Why are only 'Republicans' at fault here? It seemed to me that your comment was saying that 'Republicans' should just step aside, bow down the 'Democrats', and just allow them whatever they want, no matter what it may be. Is that what you are saying? If so, then I have to say, that's silly.

I'm not so sure we should continue going into more and more and more and more and more and more and more debt, just so we can maintain YOUR benefits and comfort while you are still around, and just have our younger generation pay for it later when you aren't around anymore.

It seems simple to me... if you don't have the money, don't have the benefit. I live that way all the time. I see a nice multi-million dollar home I'd love to have, I don't have the money, I don't get to have it.

Anyone stop to think that one reason we may not have money, is because we are so busy paying off all the 'borrowing' that we have done for that past few decades, and we wouldn't be so deep in the mess if we had been more responsible?

Nope... stop the borrowing, come back down to earth and live like everyone else. Myself, I think we SHOULD default... may be the only way we can actually get around to spending responsibly. Like everyone else in the world who has ended up with a bad credit rating in exactly the same way.

Lol at OP, because every single democrat voted no on the use of force on Iraq right??

Those who are quoting the 14th amendment to the Constitution stop reading too soon. Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

The President does not have the power to settle valid debts.

citizen1,

Trying telling the to John Q. Citizen with billions of mature bonds (series EE, War Bonds, Short or Long-Term Treasury notes). We owe the Vast majority of our debt to ourselves. You want to excuse this by thinking we'll just stiff the Chinese and they won't fight us, just humiliate us.

The real truth. If the public news sources are to be believed; a small office desk drawer in West Virginia contains a 3-ring binder stuffed full of US Treasury notes owned by SSI to secure Social Security payments for the next 26 years. Trillions of our debt is to US, dammit. Wake up.

These dumb bastards in Washington want you to believe that it is all the Chinese or Europeans. Well, first who holds it doesn't matter. When the interest or principal is due, IT IS DUE regardless of payee. Second, our debt is not only our own, but much, if not most is owed to US. If we default to our own, what is left? Shall we only pay SSI beneficiaries what is derived fron payroll taxes? Shall we only pay troops what was approved on the last Continuing Resolution?

And actually you are incorrect. The Congress is required to approve expenditures and receive notice of theire accounts. The President is the office entrusted to settle those accounts. Aticle II, Section 1 "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Let me interpret this for you, the Congress passes, the President acts. No check of the US government is signed in the name of the Congress. It is signed by a Presidential appointee with Congressional approval, but still a Presidential (Executive) employee. The President therefore, under the Constitution, has the obligation to settle debts already approved by Congress and presented to the Treasury. You and FAR TOO MANY OTHERS FORGET YOU HAVE ALREADY SPENT THIS MONEY. If that message upsets you, wait for the Chinese voice on the phone wanting your $550000 dollar share.

I concur...

Thanks to your husband for what he does no matter what our government thinks

I only wish you could be allowed to stand in front of Congress on national TV and make that statement to them. Families at home waiting for a loved one have enough tension wihout being slapped around like this. What is happeneing to "America the Beautiful." Bless you my dear, I did my tour in the Army during the Vietnam era and your family will always have a place in my heart.

How many of us really have that situation in our jobs? Go to work every day on those conditions of harm, and not having a paycheck at the end of the day!

Sorry for the stupidity of our government. We should all appologize for electing them.

Yes, Many Thanks to your husband and the many others who serve. We all know that most military make next to nothing and have very few real benefits, unlike the slimy politicians who have no problem sending them into battle and then saying, "Well, we can't afford to pay you right now." Then if that is the case, Congress don't pay your self, or in this actual case, we as Citizens should refuse to allow them to be payed, as it is "OUR" Tax money that pays congress and all government officials. Let's see how that would fly, they keep it up and the uprising is gonna make it self a reality. God Bless America.

IRESPOND-2315268 #5.4,

You have forgotten one thing, politicians are members of a closed club. Therefore the electorate (us) have only two choices, select the lesser evil, or don't vote. We and our country have really devolved!

Thank you and your husband, This government is the most greediest most hoarding of all time. They wanna keep the money in their pockets and not help out with our own countrys econimic downfall, this is their fault, if they would release oil in reserve we would not be paying almost $4 a gallon for gas if they stop unnecessary spending to contractors when the greatest military is on hand to do the same job. stop helping the rich and help out the middle and low class of this country. Stop throwing money away especially if it is not yours, but our countries money. Stop giving yourselves pay raises when the unemployment rate gets higher. stop splurging with limo rides, private jets, big parties and massuese using the money many hard workers earn and it is time to give back to the countries people. I say the hell with the government we can do this @!$%# better ourselves.

No we have a third choice we the people can put be fore the house and senate a bill demanding that we have the following:

Term Limits

No Lobbying

All bills must only contain things germane to the intent of the bill

No laws passed form which congress and senate and executive are immune.

If within a specified time congress and the senate cannot agree on a course of action it falls to a general election for the people to decide.

It is NOT necessary to vote for the lesser of 2 evils!

You could "Write in" on the ballot for YOUR choice of representation.

We could all do that and thus remove (FIRE) the present incompetent politicians.

All we have to do is use the internet to get together and decide on our own selection of replacements. That way we might be able to circumvent the normal and ill conceived electoral college. We have this NEW and far more powerful method available to us to elect outside the present political system.

Remember, the people in Iran , Syria and Egypt used the internet to gather great numbers of their citizens to protest. Granted, their achievements were limited and possibly flawed.

Please remember that the Chinese people have harshly reprimanded their government after the terrible train crash just a few days ago and the chinese government was forced to back off from their efforts to hide the facts.

We could find a way to use the internet to gather our citizens to reject the present inept government during the next election and even use the internet to fire anyone who appears to be corrupt or incompetent!

We the people have the opportunity to regain our voice . We the people can change the present political system.

This is my modest effort to help the citizens of the USA to regain a true representation of, by and for the people.

Term limits. ROTFLMAO.

Are you aware that this country is being blackmailed by 80 brand new Congressmen?

For crying out loud, what makes you think term limits solve anything? They just make it easier for people with lots of money or who are willing to be prostitutes get elected.

To even think of not paying our soldiers or our seniors, is simply unthinkable, keep it up Washington, and there really will be a new revolution, and DC will be the first to go. We are sick and tired of your endless BS, and never working for our good!

To Justme: Let me add my thanks, not only to your husband for his service, but to you as well for keeping things running at home while he is away. While I can't imagine how you are feeling, not knowing your situation at all, I know that this must be an anxious time for you. Remember though, that no one has actually said that the military will not be paid. The story we are commenting on only reported that Adm. Mullen told the troops that he didn't know the answer to the question of whether or not they would be paid. Whatever we might think about Obama, Reid and Boehner, the are all adept politicians. Regardless of their personal feelings about the military they are probably all well aware that failing to pay the military at this point in time would likely end their political careers. They may not be good at their jobs, but they're not stupid people.

To Paul nosaint: While I think the notion of an internet-driven write-in campaign is a great idea, I wouldn't give it much hope. As bad as they are, the power of a political party is that it unites people around an ideology. I'm not sure that, with the great diversity of this country, that the grass-roots campaign you suggest would have enough unifying power to get enough votes for a single candidate to defeat the incumbents. It would be great if I were wrong though.

I 100% agree with setting term limites to the house and the senate. These people who stay in office for their entire lives and do nothing for change except their paychecks and ways for them to stay longer. Also, why is it that military retirement is on their discussions to similar to a 401k program and they can serve 1 term and get 100% retirement.

They need to start working for the American people and stop working for anyone who throws them an extra buck to adjust policies to their advantage.

Even though this next statement isn't related to this reply I also agree with firing military contractors and a large amount of civilians that work with the military. I was deployed to Iraq and civilian contractors who were doing my job were at a minimum making 130k a year up to 250k a year. Also, of that money 90k is completely tax exempt. At a minimum this is four times the salary that I was making.

I am not complaining about my pay, but if you want to save money just keep soldiers, sailors, and marines doing jobs they can do without overpaying contractors and DoD Civilians to do the same job. These are jobs that we are already trained to do or can be easily trained to do. Do you really need to pay a civilian 150k a year to manage military network infrastructure when you can have a military officer do it for half the cost? Do you really need to pay a civilian 80k a year to file and process finance paperwork when an E1-E4 can do it for half or even more than half?

It is rare to read a sincere, heartbreaking comment such as this one. Very best to you, your family, and your husband. Citizens respect and are grateful for your service, I hope our "leaders" are paying attention.

It's easy, instead of "cut, crap, and fumble", lets give Americans what they want which is a balanced approach of cuts and more revenue.

Term limits insures that they work for us not their bottom line. It eliminates the good-ole-boy system. Whether your "ROTFLMAO" or burying you head in the sand matters not, it will solve a lot of our problems.

Stop paying our Armed Services personnel, the people with all of the guns, rockets, and bombs? Really?

/Satire

Justme-438942,

Just a personal thought, I think your husband got gyped, I would have written him up for a Silver Star (knowning that it would be downgrade by a bureaucrat to a Bronze Star).

The rest of what you said I concur with; but, feel lucky that he is not stuck like my men, women and myself as "Middle East" Qualified (languages, Farsi, Arabic, Pashtu or Dari, etc. and college level Islam) for years of consecutive tours at the "Middle East" (and Southwest Asia) to conduct US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare (the US Military Conventional Warfare Forces leave and go south during the harsh near Arctic winters, and we still remain).

JabbaTheElf,

Add on: that our Representatives will be chosen at Random, like Jury Duty. Paid a Salary the National Average of the "Middle Class". Benefits like the US Military (including Income Tax withholding, deductions for Social Security, deductions for TriCare, etc.) that end upon completetion of Civic Duty. Lobbyists and Special Interests 100% Illegal as "Crimes Against the US Citizens and US Governement". Votes of No Confidence. Eliminate the Electoral College. Etc.

I discussed this at other Newsvine Topics, a means to stop:

Paul nosaint - You could "Write in" on the ballot for YOUR choice of representation.

That does not matter, as that does not stop the Professional Politicians from Prostituting themselves to the Campaign Contributors, and selling out the US Citizens.

Sorry, Politicians' Dance Cards Are Full

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/ftn/main6228685.shtml?tag=cbsnewsTwoColUpperPromoArea

The Price Tag Of Politics

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo

All of you do not even say "Revolution", that is Illegal under the President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (plural), as the Unconstitutional (Defeated) provisions known as "the George Orwell 1984 Thought Crime Laws" of H.R.1955 and S.1959 were included, specifically, "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". And the monitoring and censorship of all US Communications (previously illegal under the President Bush Patriot Act (singular).

Holiday Cheer,

Most of us that have been in the US Military for quite a while (decades) already know the pecking order for Summary Executions* in the event the US President by Executive Order invokes the Insurrection Act (insurrect by US Military or US Citizens). (Unclassified and unofficial: Foreign Security Contractors (hired by US Department of State and Agencies, Diplomatic Immunity) --> US Security Contractors --> US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces --> US Military Conventional Warfare Forces --> US Citizens.

*No Hearings, No Trials, No Appeals, just taken out and executed. If you fail to obey the Executive Order, your Family, your Relatives, your Friends are used as "Leverage", in that even after you are Summarily Executed they will be indefinitely detained, interrogated, blacklisted (no jobs), assets possibly frozen, etc. as possible co conspirators to "Treason" (back in the 1990s during the Poll of the US Military (if we will shoot US Citizens) most of us did not know about the pecking order nor the use of our families, relatives, friends as "Leverage", so shoot people we do not know or ourselves and our families, relatives, and friends (note it is Policy not to deploy Federal Active US Military to their "Home State" to enforce the Insurrection Act.).

I also want to THANK you and your husband for putting up with the government and serving our country. Your worries are on our hearts and your Husband's work is priceless.

I want to thank you, your husband and your family for the sacrifices you've made for and on my behalf as a fellow American, Justme. I can't imagine that military pay would be suspended for any reason, debt ceiling increase or not. That said, for Admiral Mullen to make that statement to the troops demonstrates how irresponsible all of this bickering and toe in the sand style posturing by Congress really is. There is NO reason the two sides could not reach an agreement; each compromising wherever they feel most appropriate and meaningful. I'm neither a Republican nor a Democrat, nor am I part of the Tea Party movement. That said, I must say that the Republicans better get their act together. The few will wreck the many in the process. I'm all for dissenting votes. However, when it comes down to a matter of silly games, ultimatums, heads stuck in the sand and just plain old hard-headed shenanigans, I lose all respect for those involved in the showmanship game.

GIT 'ER DUN, CONGRESS!

That's why Pelosi classified all VETERANS POTENTIAL TERRORIST.

David, I clearly marked my post as satire.

I spent eight years in the U.S. Army and served in Viet Nam. That's where I learned the true definition of fear and terror so I don't need you to describe the Army experience for me. You may go pound sand.

You will have to look long and far to find anyone more patriotic than I.

The Tea Party and Republicans are playing a game with peoples lives in this country and I find it disgusting.

CombatMedic69- That's why Pelosi classified all VETERANS POTENTIAL TERRORIST.

When she was Speaker of the House, she stated that "All those returning from the Wars must be considered potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorists". Guilty until proven innocent.

She, Pelosi, (H.R.1955) and Senator Obama (S.1959) voted for H.R.1955 and S.1959. (reference Voting Records). The disgruntled Public (petitions) got the US Supreme Court to Rule H.R.4655 and S.1959 Unconstitutional (you would think a Constitutional Lawyer like then Senator Obama would know better).

They should be paying the troops first, before any other expense is payed to anybody else. Plain and simple

In 2012, does anyone want to vote for my dog? She is smart and Independent. She will only bite when provoked and is a true patriot. Her name is Cabo and she is black and white--so there is no concern for bigotry. Her only special interest is getting her crunchies every morning. Maybe, if we all vote for our dogs, they will get a message. Write in your dog!! Or cat.... Heck, write in yourself. Someone give me a name. I'll vote.

JustMe, I want to thank you and your husband and your children for the sacrifices you are all making for me and my husband and my children. You are my heroes. I come from a proud military background but there are nights I hope my children won't go into the military because it seems there is a total lack of respect for the men and women who protect our freedoms. They are good enough to die for us but not good enough to pay...that's so wrong on so many levels I can't begin to list them all

My husband is an active duty member of the Navy. He and his shipmates have been told that it is extremely possible that their pay will be withheld, and that if they have dependents (wife, husband, children) they need to let them know to be prepared. They have been told that if this happens, EVENTUALLY, they will get paid, but they cannot give a date when (it's whenever those on Capitol Hill decide to stop acting like 1st graders during recess and get some solution to this problem).

What really frustrates me about this is exactly what Justme said. During the time that the pay is being withheld, my husband must still continue to serve. So, while his family is at home wondering how to make ends meet, because the money is being withheld, he has to still be out there, working a job. He doesn't get to stop working until they pay him again. This may just be a scare tactic, but it's an awful one.

Capitol Hill needs to be told that their pay will be withheld until this situation is solved. I bet it would take less than 24 hours to get a solution...

The first people that should not be paid is the military. It's their fault we have this "debt" in the first place. ANd the idea that military people have jobs is another falsity. People in the military are on the public dole. It's welfare for killers. We have to pay for all these people to play with their guns killing machines. The current illegal wars of aggression have cost American society over a trillion dollars and should never have been waged in the first place. Now that these war mongers have bankrupt us they want to know if they still get paid? I say we take an savings that a military family has and give it bak to the people who paid the tax in the first place as well as arresting them for war crimes.

Ken,

I honestly don't know who should be paid first. If it were up to me I would make sure the most vulnerable were given checks first, especially those who cannot afford to pay late fees for rent.

The last I checked military servicemen also pay federal and state taxes, and social security from their base pay. They are NOT on the "government dole", it's not welfare. Or do you also consider every federal employee to be on welfare?

Nobody in the military got us into any war. The last administration has that honor. Military members are not warmongers, nor should they all be considered heroes. They are Americans doing a job to the best of their ability, sometimes they perform heroically.

Let's not act like vermin trying to escape a sinking ship or castaways fighting over the last scraps of food. Pointing fingers at people serving in the military is just stupid. Retract your statement. There is nobody who deserves to go without pay, other than the people who are playing games with the budget for political reasons.

Ken,

I am appalled at your lack of humanity. My husband works as a medic and was sent to Japan to help during the earthquake crisis. He spent 38 hours awake at a time while he was working in makeshift hospitals trying to keep people alive and to give them aide. I am sorry that you feel that he is "playing with his killing machines," but my husband and the other medics with him were saving lives, not taking them. Just as any doctor in a hospital deserves to be paid for the work they do, so does my husband and those working with him. I'm not sure where in that action he deserves to be arrested for war crimes. Please give me your proof of such war crimes before you post and say that our savings should be taken away from us and that we should be arrested.

Dear Ken,

Hope we never meet. It wouldn't end very well for you. And not for nothing but most of the men and women I have had the pleasure of speaking to don't want to be over there any more than you, you presumptuous jacka--. You are probably one of those stupid, arrogant, useless morons that spit on my father when he came home from Vietnam. Tell you a little secret sweetpea, my dad didn't want to go over there. He did because it was his job. It was what he got paid to do. He didn't start that war any more than JustMe's husband or ready2change's husband or any of the other wives, husbands, mothers, fathers or children that are fighting did. But they have a job to do that they may NOT get paid for and they are doing it. I get the distinct impression, you little weasel, that if all members of the military WERE to stop doing what they are doing until they get paid what we owe them, you would have something nasty and self-serving to say about that, too. Yes I have been reduced to name calling and I brought myself down to your level but really, I'm not sure someone like you would understand anything else. I find it amusing that the same people you are labeling welfare killersare the same ones protecting your right to call them such. your mother must be very proud.

Ken Waltz,

Are you familiar with the story "The Man Without a Country"? If not, find and read it. Then feel free to live it.

You are blessed to live in a country that tolerates you. The very people that you disparage, those who defend us and fight our wars, are the ones who protect your freedom to be an ass.

Have to? They volunteered for the military. There is no draft. No one HAD to do anything. Typically people CHOOSE to join the military because of the great benefits that go along with service. Hell, you can retire after only 20 years on a partial pension for the rest of your life. They pay for school for you and your kids. You get 30 days PAID VACATION a year. It's a hell of a life, but someone has to do it.

that being said, of course they should get paid. none of us should lose our jobs and we should all have enough to eat. Unfortunately, this is the real world where there are bumps in the road every so often. They WILL get paid, as soon as congress does what it's supposed to, and they will, eventually. They always do.

We volunteered for the miltary the same as most people apply for a job. the difference that if a job stops paying you can just not show up for work. And as far as paying for school for my kids????????? the only way your kids get their school paid for is if you are a purple heart recipient. Yes we do get 30days paid vacation for a year but you know what we damn well earn it. When's the last time you have taken a round to your chest not knowing if it penetrated your Flack and sapi's until the doc comes over and checks it out???? it is a hell of a life and alot of the time overseas it is a life in hell. laura you and people like you should just keep your mouth shut unless you know what you are talking about. And eventually getting paid....... do you think the companie's that I and other service members owe for vehicles and other bills will just accept that answer?? NO they won't they will reposses our cars foreclose on our houses and you know what we will still be expected to show up to work day after day how I don't know considering I won't have a vehicle or a place to live. And yes this is from an Infantry Marine that has deployed to Iraq twice and Afghanistan.

Yeah 30 days paid vacations after months with no days off sitting in a sand pit. heaven forbid they get those 30 days of leave. Oh wait in a lot of cases people cant get the time off they ask for and their leave adds up and in the end they lose a lot of it, But hey its cool we can say wow what a perk when we dont look at all the rest of the crap they put up with right?

He should just do as Clinton and many other experts said, and just raise it himself in following his oath to protect and defend the Constitution, which includes the 14th Amendment.

If the defense contractors were not paid, how many families would that affect? Although I fully understand your sentiment that isnt the answer either.

How about giving a 95% reduction in pay to the top 50% pay grades in Government payrols. Remove 100% of elected and appointed retirement funds and put those funds in a special account to fund bringing the troops home as needed.

old-pilot, I like you! My husband served our country honorably for 20 years. Now that he is disabled and unable to work, his retirement pay and his disability have to make up for the money he earned prior to his disability.

The men and women serving, and their families should be the LAST to worry about having no income. The ones on the front lines should not have this laid upon their shoulders, they already carry the burdens of war.

Old-pilot has a fine idea, take some away from the Capitol Hill fat cats.

Why food stamps? Sorry but our military and senior citizens should be paid before the non-working members of our society. While I realize not all on food stamps are non-working many are non-working and even those who do work are having kids they can not afford on the tax payer bill. I would pay interest on debt, Social Security (these folks paid into the program it is not an entitlement but an obligation), medicare (seniors medical care), Veterans (they paid life and health for these benefits), and active duty (they are still serving to protect us whether you believe our congress has sent them overseas properly or not congress still sent them). Look sometime at the pie charts on our budget. According to a pie chart for 2010 we spent 3% less on defense than on medical (I think it very unfair to lump medicaid and medicare together BTW as FICA takes out of my check for medicare thus it like social security is NOT entitlement but owed). So republicans want to cut what they call entitlements while the democrats want to cut defense and raise taxes. How about a REAL compromise. for every dollar cut from the military budget an equal dollar amount should be cut from social programs like food stamps, section 8 housing, and medical for poor (leave the seniors alone!). Lose the tax loopholes on corporations and raise the tax by a very low amount across the board. While we are at it cut the tax credits for having children. If you can't afford children don't have them. A person with 3 children lives better than I do with my 1 because she qualifies for food stamps and tax credits of a $1000 per child. We make the same salary yet she gets $3000 tax credit (she pays no taxes and in fact gets back more than she paid in!) due to having more children than I do. Plus she gets almost a thousand a month in food assistance. I thought I was being responsible by not having children I can't afford. Heck I should have just taken the attitude that the government will take care of me and my children and had the children!

One thing I would like to bring up is the $47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development think section 8 housing where no decent person wants to live due to all the crime located in those section 8 housing villages.

When congress re-worked food stamps years ago and turned it into TANF-Temporary Assistance for Needy Families they put a 5 year limit on receiving assistance. However, public housing is different and has no limits. Recently a woman declared she had been living in a low income "village" for over 10 years in my local newspaper! So I started doing some research and not only found no limits on receiving housing assistance but often there is a huge 2-3 year waiting list just to get into public housing. Homelessness does not wait 2-3 years so obviously our current program is not servicing the needy in a timely manner due to too many staying on the roster for too long. PLUS "Recently, the Section 8 program was modified to allow Section 8 to help pay mortgage payments for qualified first-time homebuyers." WHAT?! WHY are the taxpayers paying for not only unlimited time in public rental housing but now home ownership? We need to re-vamp this entire program so that it assists the truly needy who have lost income due to lay-off etc. We should not be paying for unlimited amount of unspecified time in low-rent or rent-controlled housing. We should not be paying for low income families to BUY a house on taxpayers backs. If we put time limits on this housing for able bodied folks and only made exceptions for doctor documented disabled and senior citizens then there would be more housing vouchers available for those who really need it--disabled, senior citizens, and short-term out of work able bodied folks. The current program is not fair to those of us who have worked hard yet still can't afford to buy our own homes. It is a slap in MY FACE! This is where our budget can be cut big time!

So start cutting the fat from both defense and social welfare programs while taking care of our military and senior citizens.

Henry G. Huestis-3546140

Nice try Henry. The government contractors are businessmen. They will simply take their business elsewhere and not feel bad one bit. Afterall, it is your US Government that violated the contract with them. There are other solvent nations and organizations that would gladly pay for high tech weapon systems supplied by these Defense Contractors.

Sorry, but neither you nor the US Government have the power to pick and choose who gets paid and who doesn't. Being $15 trillion in debt, it's way too late for that now.

Moreover, the US Congress needs to come up with a plan quickly to reduce the $15 T. The rest of the world isn't going to tolerate dead beats like the US.

With the US Congress grid-locked over raising the debt ceiling, it's clear they don't have the intellect to tackle a greater problem of how is the US going to pay down the $15 T.

Unless the next President of the US declares that America will zero out its debt within the decade, the rest of the world will have no faith in America or place any credit in US obligations. JFK made a similar declaration when he became President regarding men on the moon. Surely America has what it takes to deal with the $15 T.

What do you think, Henry?

Before I retired from the Air Force, as much as you might not want to believe it, there were a lot of younger service members and their families who could not have gotten by without the help of food stamps. What do you propose we do about them?

You push all kinds of buttons with your angry rhetoric, but I don't really think you know the facts or understand how complicated the issues are. You sound like a sad sorry jealous woman, who would like to see poor people pay as much in taxes as rich people and corporations.

I bet you call yourself a good Christian, too, considering how much good will and tolerance you seem able to muster towards those less fortunate than yourself. [/snark]

Your right..these defense contractors are major looters...they charge at least triple what the actual cost is to do things and we get shafted for the tab for over priced, understructured bill. They are major rip offs. I wonder how many of the things they have built have been cushy homes or country clubs for the top brass in Iraq? and at our expense.

Look... I dont mind paying a fair price but I dont want to be shafted..and it needs to be for worthwhile projects not swimming pools and golf courses.

elaine-2138913

These contractors that you speak about are only a small part of the problem for the US. America's problem is how will it pay the $15 trillion debt down and how quickly will it start?

The rest of the world is furious with Yankee Doodles like you and your government. How is possible that dead beats can get their way and just write more IOU's. The political capital that the US has obtained internationally is running out. Sorry to say, good things don't last forever. Thanks for putting a man on the moon, saving the world from Sadam Husein & Bin Laden, and giving the rest of us iPod's & iTunes. These were really great feats. Now it's time for the US to pay its IOU's. The party is over. Time is running out. The bells are tolling for America.

Hallaburton (think Cheney) still owes the use big $ for stuff they said they supplied...but did not. Black water also owes money. Guess what..they Both still are on the Gov. tit. (by different names..bw) The 8 years of Bush/Chaney sideshoe is Still costing us today Think debt...ya we are still trying to pay payments on Those wars & Tax giveaways. Again, the TEABAGGERS need to go home from office

Food stamps are a huge crime deterent, especially for those exploited by the rich jerk. Those that work non-union jobs, and thus have little pay and no benefits, while making RJ (rich jerk) richer.

Believe me, if I worked for RJ too, and I couldn't feed my kids a decent meal because Uncle Scrooge couldn't have the heart to pay me right, I too would very likely be taking up car stealing, robbery, etc.

Please get your facts straight before you attack what you don't know. I'm am a contractor AND I am prior military just like 99% of contractors. Contractors support the war effort just as a soldier, airman, sailor, or marine and we are in harms way also. Our sacrifice might not be as noble as their's because we volunteered to come where they were under orders but the danger's we face are just the same. There simply isn't enough military personnel to account for all of the sustainment operations that are going on globally and so contractors are needed and necessary to ease the burden that would be put on military personnel. The solution you throw out there in no way addresses the root of the problem which is that America must learn to manage its own funds and have forsight to prevent problems like this just like a family budgets to prevent not having money to eat or keep the lights on. Contractors do their work to do their best to help make sure that the military personnel are safe and comfortable as can be during deployment and make it home safe. The salaries that contractors draw in relation to the profit that the company makes are two very different things and very disproportionate to each other. The company makes much more off of me than they pay me so keep that it mind before you slam defense contractors.

Henry...Very good post.

Henry G::: The first persons NOT TO PAY are the politicians, every danged one of them, and their flunkies.

First TO PAY are the military, followed closely by VETERANS. The military are giving up everything to fight in the sandbox on the other side of the pond. The veterans have given up a lot-- and in some cases everything-- for us.

A friend of mine, retired military, said he'd be willing to give up 10% of his retired pay. But he's get by just fine-- both he and his wife are over 70 so there is Social Security. He is also retired from a civilian job. I can't give up any of my pay-- and my husband gave his up years ago when he passed away.

Oh well, grandma is nearing the edge of the cliff. I hope we aren't getting ready to KILL GRANDMA. But that would solve my financial situation.

Susie-2759697

Shame on you for pushing your grandma over the cliff just to resolve your financial situation.

Unfortunately, the the US government doesn't get to choose who gets paid first and who doesn't get paid when it comes to obligations and covenents that have already been made.

From personal experience many years ago in military service, if Congress didn't raise the debt limit the military payroll was delayed until it was raised. Moreover, government workers will get furloughed shutting down parks, museums, federal buildings, and etc. On Monday you will see the calls going out to begin winding down non-essential government sometime during the week.

We really have to quit voting for career politicians. They are only interested in their next election.

Vote for people who have served in the military honorably or businessmen who have had to make a payroll regularly. And we don't need more attorneys.

All ballots should have a space to check for "non of the above" if you don't like the choices given you. If "none of the above" gets the most votes we go back and have another primary election, and those who were on the first ballot can't run again.

When my Dad was active duty in Germany in the late 70's, Defence contractors were at a minimum. Any construction was done inhouse by active duty troops. I remember talking to an Air Force Enlisted man who was job was construction and carpentry related.

That and their health care should be Medicare and retirement Social Security.

Insert a very large, earth shattering, Angel singing, AMEN BROTHER!!

While I agree with the sentiment in principal, I don't think it would have the desired effect you want as most of the elected officials are wealthy businessmen who don't really need the paycheck.

It worked in California. No paycheck for the jerks until they produced a real budget this year and just like majic, a real budget.

Tony - You sound like a Teabagger, brainwashed Drone.....

We could use you and your like (including Congress), over in Afghan for Body shields!

These men and women serving in our armed forces don't need to here your DRIBBLE, they need to hear the sound of Pay checks, going into their checking accounts!

Mr. GW is the one that sent them there, and it is the Republicans, that are doing the harm, by NOT financing the wars he started! You want to Yell at someone, start there......

Tony--

New legislation comes from congress. Raising the debt ceiling happens in congress...as it has since the first debt ceiling in 1917.

Here's some actual facts:

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/10-inconvenient-truths-about-debt-ceiling

Seems to me you just don't like President Obama. Good luck with that.

Tony, God answers all your prayers. Sometimes the answer is no. Maybe you should try "God, help assist the President in these troubled times". That's a better prayer don't you think. Whew, you guys just never cease to amaze.

Tony::: Who do you consider worth your vote? John Boner? He's a joke first class.

Admit it-- you are a republithug and if PRESIDENT Obama did everything that you would consider right you would still condemn him because he is a democrat.

What has John Boner and his following done for the common folk in this country? Not a dingdang thing!

Your hatred of everything Obama is showing!!!!!!!!!!

What did Janet Napolitano say about the returning veterans???

Remember your oath of office was to support the US Constitution, NOT to support ANY Political Office...

One notable difference between the officer and enlisted oaths is that the oath taken by officers does not include any provision to obey orders; while enlisted personnel are bound by the UCMJ to obey lawful orders, officers in the service of the United States are bound by this oath to disobey any order that violates the Constitution of the United States...

Everybody keeps throwing out "Teaparty", I guess that must include the Democrats, because the Clintons were some of the biggest haters of the military to come along. The cuts he made to the military were swift and deep. This is not about party lines, it is about playing politics and these idiots we have in washington on both sides and especially the oval office are grandstanding for the next election. Obama has everyone exactly where he want them, divided and scaring them to death that they won't get paid, so that the american public will think he is their savior when he announces that he got them their paychecks.

The cuts Clinton made to the military were the natural result of the ending of the Cold War.

But we are a sound-byte nation now for a generation so this it too "deep thinking" for us today.

AC Robertson - One notable difference between the officer and enlisted oaths is that the oath taken by officers does not include any provision to obey orders

Look who else is missing. It is because by the Officer's Oath of Office and the US Congressional US Military Officer's Commissioning Certificate we are the Representatives of the silent (Enlisted and NCOs) US Citizens of the US Military and the Representatives of the US Citizens on the Battlefield. We (US Military Officers) are part of the Checks and Balances to the President and the US Politicians.

This is why when General McKiernan and General McChrystal went Public as a last appeal after the US Politicians refused to listen they could not be charged with "Insubordination" under the UCMJ, and President Obama had to make deals with them to have them tender their Letters of Resignation. Otherwise, US Congress would have had to hold Public Hearings with the "This Administration does not know what it is doing" becoming a Public Embarrassment to President Obama, as US Congress confirms the US Military Command (Office). The deals that President Obama made were that they could retire Honorably with full benefits as Four Star Generals (O-10) instead of Three Star Lieutenant Generals (O-9).

Edward Bruce Williams - The cuts Clinton made to the military were the natural result of the ending of the Cold War.

That is a crock of sh!t. You had to be in the US Military at the time to know all the crap that he caused (firsthand experience, not some baloney from non participants writing History based on information from other non participants). I wrote in other Newsvine Posts about the President Clinton Closure of 14 US Military Installations and the Results to the Local, State and Federal Economies (numbers and facts from US Library of Congress).

And please do not give me that crap of President Clinton's "Budget Surplus" (a Budget made by Professional Politicians for a Professional Politician, as the Repugnant Congress sandbagged the US Budget by appropriating more money than President Clinton could spend). As the REAL indicator of the US Economy is the Interest on the National Debt: President Clinton's Interest on the National Debt, $18.9 Billion USDs; President Bush's Interest on the National Debt, $16.6 Billion USDs. (Source Democratic National Committee, a DNC Study that backfired on the DNC.).

If you do not comprehend simple mathematics the higher the number (Interest on the National Debt) the worse the US Economy is.

Mr. Williams, I find it interesting that you think the downsizing of our military by Clinton was the natural order of things. He closed bases, deactivated units and then committed troops to Kosovo, which by the way is still underway after all of these years. If we cannot get our troops out of there, do you think we have any chance of getting troops out of Iraq or Afghanistan? When Clinton was in office there was barely enough money for ammo for live fire training for active duty troops. If there ever was a surplus and I think it was all juggling the books, then most of it came from what the military had to give up.

Let me add: And if you are worried about terrorists coming to this country remember that your local marital arts school, and gun stores are only a phone call away.

And they don't even have an army, navy or airforce and the only way they can get here is by our Embassies giving them a passport to come here! And we went bankrupt to protect us from that??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

radar015 - military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us against.

Keep b!tching without any real knowledge. Let's just lay off the hundred million (direct and indirect) US Civilians employed by the US Military and fill their positions with cheaper US Military Personnel and see what you get.

radar015 - Big expensive aircraft carriers, over prices jets and tanks,

Who do you think builds that stuff. US CIVILIANS (US JOBS), mostly US Labor Union Members (manual labor intensive, as US Labor Unions since the 1980s opposed in writing Automation (Fully Automated Computerized Self Calibrating Robotics Plants and Factories (why GM, Ford, Chrysler fled to Toluca Mexico, Machau China, and Shanghai China to build Automated Plants and Factories)). Cause + Effects = Results.

At least President FDR was smarter than President Eisenhower, as far as getting the US out of the Great Depression (people literally starving to death). After President FDR's "New Deals to the American People" failed, he, Nationalized all US Industry and Businesses, Suspended US Labor Union Activities (known "Italian Organized Crime" and "Sympathizers to Mussolini", note the Henry Ford Era US Labor Unions were wiped out by the Great Depression and taken over as a "Legit Business" with "Political Clout" by "Italian Organized Crime" and organized like the National Socialist German Workers Party (A Political Labor Union, aka NAZI Party) Historically Documented), sold to England the War Materials made at the US Nationalized Industry and Businesses from 1939 to 1941 (before Pearl Harbor, and US Entry into WWII, an "Act of War"), instituted Universal Health Care for All US Citizens, with WWII finally getting the US out of the Great Depression. Congress makes the Causes of the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression Illegal (US Congress and President Clinton remove those US Laws, resulting in the current 60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" (Depression, not Recession) consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Credit Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Financial Crisis", etc..). President Obama does nothing to reinstate the US Laws to make the Causes of the Depression Illegal again and concentrates on how to get Unlimited Campaign Contributions of $1 Billion USDs from the Health Care Insurance Industry, Medical Device Industry and the Pharmaceuticals Industry.

One of the few things that President Eisenhower did right was his successful plan against the known Threat to National Security, Operation Wetback to apprehend and deport millions of Illegal Aliens including "those little frauds" (aka "Anchor Babies" as upheld by US Supreme Court) at the US. Currently the US has over 23 Million Illegal Aliens (Loyal Citizens of another Nation, that have no intent of becoming US Citizens as "too high a cost of living (taxes)", and do NOT pay taxes (do not fill out employer paperwork for income tax withholding, deductions for social security, deductions for medical/dental/vision, etc.). resulting in California (not including the other 49 States), 2004, spending per year $7.7 Billion on Education for Illegal Aliens, $1.4 Billion for Health Care for Illegal Aliens, $1.4 Prison for Violent Criminal Illegal Aliens = $10.5 Billion each year spent on Illegal Aliens (not including Public Assistance) of California's yearly budget of $85 Billion USDs. In 2009 since the Illegal Aliens do not pay taxes the State Budget decreased to $80 Billion, while the amount spent on Illegal Aliens increased to over $15 Billion. In 2010 after many States implemented and enforced Laws against Illegal Aliens more fled to California with the result being no taxes paid by Illegal Aliens and the State Budget dropping to less than $79 Billion while the amount spent on Illegal Aliens (not including Public Assistance) was over $20 Billion USDs. The State of California demanding the Illegal Collective Punishment (collective punishment declared illegal by US Supreme Court) of All US Citizens while ignoring their own Laws Against Illegal Aliens, by demanding Federal US Taxpayer USDs to bail them out.

Illegal Aliens Advocacy Groups like La Raza, M.E.Ch.A., etc. advised Illegal Aliens NOT to fill out Employer paperwork and only Work for Cash Only, as Employer paperwork is used by ICE to determine which Businesses to get Search Warrants to Raid. By doing this these Illegal Aliens Advocacy Groups are involved with a Felony Crime of Tax Evasion by advising Illegal Aliens to evade US Taxes.

The Defeat of California Proposition 187 "Save Our State Iniative" by the US Taxpayer funded Lawyers of La Raza set the Legal Precedent for Illegal Aliens Nationwide to receive US Taxpayer Public Assistance. This is regardless of the majority of California Legal US Citizen Residents voting for California Proposition 187. To lessen their expenses (more money to take "Home" (their own Country) they bring their families with them and live off US Taxpayer paid Public Assistance, as well as sell the Public Assistance on the "Black Market" for cash (sent home to "Non Established Financial Institutions (a relatives shoe box) to evade their Nation's Taxes.

The previous and currently know National Security Threat is the Illegal Aliens are forced to cooperate with Terrorists or their Families, Relatives, etc. at their "Home" Nation are murdered by the Mexican Drug Lords (Russian Mobs, Eastern European Mobs, etc.) as the Terrorist pay them for their sideline Businesses of Human Trafficking (to get the Terrorists into the US), Weapons, Smuggling (possible WMDs), Identification Forgery, Identification Theft, Intelligence, Money Laundrying, Safe Locations within the US (mostly residences of Illegal Aliens), etc..

Those are just Researched Facts, so do not even think about name calling, etc. until you research facts to argue against the researched facts (long list of references and cross references to verify the facts, including California State Government facts (documents).).

I once tried to report an illegal alien to immigration. Took me forever to even get to talk to someone, and the answer I had in the end was that they were too busy to worry about such things, so long as they don't break the law, they intend to do nothing about it.

In all honesty, this was about 15 years ago, when the problem was just first starting, but it shows what an 'indifference' has ended up with.

To add to all this, Mrs. Hillary Clinton, in her infinite wisdom, pushed for a law that if an illegal wants to stay in the country, with all sorts of benefits. All he/she (mostly she) has to do is accuse his/her spouse of Domestic Violence. After that, nice free ticket all the way.

Life in the American military can be good and very rewarding, and many servicemen would be without a job otherwise. The only thing is, one is expected to do as he/she is told without question, and far too many NCOs and officers take full advantage of that mindset. The pettiness and self-gratification of that arrangement usually lead to the loss of talented members with other options.

By the way, it is interesting to note that George W. Bush became a flight officer without ever setting foot into either a military academy or Air Force AOCS. He was eventually removed from flight status for various derelictions, but received an honorable discharge and acceptance into Harvard Business School. All of that despite his prior role in a girlfriend's abortion at a time when killing a fetus was a criminal act.

Colorado, I am not surprised it took so long for you to get to talk to a person. Do you know how long it takes to transfer calls through India? :)

The debt was heading to zero when Bush took office.

It is normal to run a deficit when you have a war(s)and always have been. Without the Bush tax cuts we would be in much better shape to pay for the wars and not borrow the money to pay for them. You can't moan the deficit and not be willing to pay taxes because the money, besides the wars, goes to SS, Medicare and the Defense Department, not for "government programs",the CDC and Pell Grants for students are a small part of the budget and worth the money.

What we need is about a million people marching on Washington carrying signs, just like in the 60's. It helped to end that bloody war. Anyone want to go???? We've got to start making a believer out of these morons that say they "represent" us!!

As voters we have to stop fighting amongst ourselves and demand better from these professional politicians no matter what party they represent, they're ALL no good. We need business people in Washington, not politicians, who obviously are out of touch with reality and how to balance a checkbook.

The first people that should decline a paycheck are the politicians, has anyone heard of any of them doing that during this debt crisis???

^ Count me in.

I'd make that trip with you!

They can't put us all in jail!!!

3 down, 999,997 more to go

Edward Bruce Williams - The debt was heading to zero when Bush took office.

More baloney. From the Democratic National Committee:

President Clinton's Interest on the National Debt, $18.9 Billion USDs.

President Bush's Interest on the National Debt, $16.6 Billion USDs.

kattlekween - They can't put us all in jail!!!

Not jail, "Detention" Camps.

kettlkween...I'm in. Name the time. Name the place. I would be there.

www.USDayofRage.org

obama logic!!! socialism, spends our money before the man even gets it put us here. pelosi started spending money in 2007 when the dems controlled house and senate when bush was in and she set up that ole printing press for obama.

Teabagger logic!! Spend money on Afghanistan and Iraq while screwing the cutting funds for retirees and the less well off. We cant afford to tax corporations and the wealthy, but we have to protect corporate welfare/ subsidies.

BannedontheRun5150 Yes, I suppose I was stating the obvious there. My husband-to-be is in Iraq, so this is a very sensitive matter for him and I, and NUMEROUS other service members and civilians alike. I just don't understand why the most obvious of solutions cannot be handled promptly and effectively. It makes my heart hurt in so many ways. Ignorant people on every level.

I will send him your thanks. Believe me, it always brightens his day to know that what they are doing is appreciated. And, Thank You for your very kind words, I do appreciate the encouragement and I agree with all that you have said.

Jenny...Not only are his sacrifices appreciated, but so are yours. Sounds like you found a keeper. Marry that boy when he gets home!!

Colorblind- Thank you very much. He is most certainly a keeper, I wouldn't trade him for the world :)

I hope everyone noticed that after freezing SS COLA's, that Congress proceeded to give themselves raises.

Yes, arrogance and hypocrisy at its highest which is what happens when the foxes are given control of the $chicken farm. I have a great idea to make use of the all the feathers from the massacre along with some hot tar.

Big Bird would be proud and happy to help kick butt with his big feet.

Does the Continental Army ring a bell to anyone I wonder? Where is George Washington when we need him?

George has the inside of his casket worn out from rolling over in it!

No wonder they only want to bring a relative few home at a time. 10,000 p!ssed soldiers on American soil might actually even get the attention of these robber barons.

You and others should sue the government for this

If you get organized with your fellow soldiers and sue them, they will think hard and long the next time that they decide to play games with you and your suffering...sorry for this mess

Mr. Lloyd, you and your family have my gratitude for the sacrifices that you all make. I hope that this disaster is handled efficiently for the sake of everyone, but especially those of you who give so much.

Uh, IRESPOND (and any others who have advocated it) Military members can NOT sue the Government. Period. They can not sue the Military, period. My mother died from MALPRACTICE from an Army Physician (in the ER) in 2002 and my father (retired AF) would not have been able to sue for it. My sister and I would have had to be the ones who sued because ALL Military members - Active Duty or Retired - are barred from suing the Military and Federal Government. So, my sister and I had to decide whether we wanted to put our father through the he!! of reliving the pain of losing his 55-year-old wife just to get monetary damages. I decided it was NOT worth it. NO amount of money could replace my mother. NO amount of money could compensate me for her never knowing my son and for him never knowing her (he is now 4).

To all Active Duty and Retired Service members and your families - I honor your sacrifices - past, present and future. I know first-hand some of those sacrifices since I was born a Military Dependent and was still one when I turned 18. You deserve better than to be jerked around by the Government and country that you swore to protect and defend. I hope that your pay does NOT get stopped as I know that for those who are deployed, your families depend on that income to make ends meet while you are not home. For those who are states-side I know that YOUR families also depend on that money to make ends meet.

God bless you and your fellow troops. My heart goes out to your families (and you) for what you've missed out on. Thanks for the tough job you do everyday, your fellow Americans appreciate and respect you.

Never Never Never vote a Republican in offices. We need are real progressive like President Eisenhower was. Their are progressive on both side and independent's. Progressive have not had a voice in a long time and not many in the Congress.

Never never never vote a liberal in office. They are psuedo intellects who are morons who like to feel benevolent with other people's money, but tighter than a tick with their own. We don't want to be like the eunuchs leading Europe!

no matter who we vote out, there's nobody sensible to vote for to replace them.

Boy do You need to change your tv off of Fox. It is the GOP?TEA BAGGERS that came in in2010 that are having a macho moment. The debt ceiling...AGAIN is money/payment on debt we incurred for years past Think Irag war, unpaid for Prescription drug coverage AND the TAX breaks for the elite And welfare for big Co. (oil co) We need turm limits...for all. And campaign reform

We need to drop our party affiliations and register as Independents. Congress isn't going to like it when they start losing their constituency....I am doing just that. I will not vote for a single incumbent....period.

Your'e right Michael! It was a scheame from the "BEGINNING" to break the backbone of this country!and their succeeding!!!

YEAH RIGHT! IF ONLY YOU! "PAY YOUR FARE SHARE!!!".

corporate greed

Explorer, would you mind to clarify that for us. Exactly what is the definition of corporate greed, and why is it such a bad thing for a corporation wanting to show the best possible return for its investors.

You know,,, "Investors": the little old retirees and charities, etc. who depend on those companies making money, because it was part of their long-term investment strategy?

Look at the mess that BOTH houses in Washington have gotten us into. They have FORCED us into a ticking time bomb called Socialist Security.. with an overall lifetime return on your investment of less than one percent... and they're threating to not make good on that...

They have persons in the military fighting and dying for God-knows-what.. and they're threating to not make good on that...

I can't WAIT to see what they do with health care, down the road... Need an MRI? Sorry.. we have to play "The Game" for a few weeks.. while we try to wrap our minds around the notion that you simply cannot keep spending trillions more dollars than you're taking in.

It's not the 'evil corporations' who are screwing you - it's the 535 abysmal failures in leadership under that dome who are screwing with your life. And the fact that they continue to perpetuate this "Us vs. Them" smokescreen mentality proves that they know exactly what they're doing.

Because the corporations have no appreciation for the country that made them wealthy. They are making their employees do more for less and they are holding on to the profits and not using them to hire. The only ones that are benefiting are those that are hired in OTHER COUNTRIES. They are taking the jobs overseas to sweat shops and selling us the product at inflated rates. If they continue on this path, they will destroy the country that made them what they are. Not one tax break or incentive to a corporation that has outsourced to another country.

Please accept this good-natured response in the spirit in which it is intended.

Ok... so the corporations don't run exactly the way that YOU think they should run. By the way, corporations don't "feel" or "appreciate" either... only humans can do that. Businesses, by their very nature cannot, and exist for one reason: To make money for investors.

Now... just to have it clear in my mind: Are these companies that we're all so upset with making promises to their employees that they have not kept? Are they "baiting and switching" with regard to salary? By that I mean, are they hiring people for one wage, and then changing it after the fact? Because if they are, now That's illegal, and those employees would then have recourse.

However, I agree with you, in part, about the hiring in other countries... It's a major source of frustration to me that our glorious politicians will stand on the Capitol steps and beat their chests, loudly proclaiming that they have RAISED THE MINIMUM WAGE - but instantly one must wonder how on earth they intend to enforce that in Countries like China, or Mexico, or India.. etc.

Let's look at who the real culprit is here: You have to remember again, that the corporation's number one responsibility is to show a profit for its investors. It has to pay the bills and the investors.

So let's say you own one of these corporations (keep in mind this is just ONE example of an over-the-top oppressive governmental and regulatory system) and the nature of your business is that you will never have someone working for you who is physically impaired in any way... Only to have the all-powerful, imperial federal government come to you one day and say...

"You need to have X__— number of handicapped parking spaces in your employee parking lot, and you don't have ANY." And with full confidence, you smile at these (seemingly reasonable humans) and say... "That's ok, the nature of my business precludes the need for handicapped parking spaces." What do you think their response would be? "Oh...ok.....we'll just leave it be then.."

Nope... this is America,,, NOT Fantasy Island - They'd clearly point out the rules and regulations in the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) clearly requiring you, whether you need them or not, to have a certain number of handicapped spaces. Wow... What to do?

If you're like many corporations, who've been hamstrung with SO MANY mindless and superfluous regulations - keeping in mind that every time they spend money on accommodating this madness, that's just that many fewer dollars that will NOT make it back to the investors - And when they eventually reach the breaking point, they have no other choice but to go off shore, where the climate for doing business is much friendlier.

Until you understand that a Business,,,, by its very nature, is there for no other reason but to make money, you can't understand why business don't "FEEL" like the rest of us. And that's just ONE instance.. Businesses have to deal with tons of that nonsense every day - just that many more dollars that they CAN'T give to employees because of the Federal Governments chokehold on productivity.

So the politicians, rather than tell you this right up front... this basic lesson in economics... they will never step up to the plate and say.. "yeahhh....we did it.....we ran 'em out"

They'll only tell you how evil they are because their leaving.

Pretty neat trick if you ask me.

but is there anyone sensible to vote into their places?

Lets just let the Supreme Court Rule (They do anyway).

Who could do any worse? I bet on my border collie before I would trust and incumbent.

I hope America remembers every single member of congress next election and vote them out!!

It would be nice if that worked, as it's truly a noble idea. But time and again it's proven not to.

It's not only the Politicians that need fixing.. it's the 'system' under which they operate that needs fixing desperately. And no law enforcement agency seems to be willing to step up to the plate to make it happen.

Explorer80,

So you would vote the responsible members with the fools? No wonder we keep getting Congresses full of idiots.

You ranted all that using only three sentences!

Your keyboard lose its upper case function?

It was the "jerk" Bush with his borrowed money wars, tax cuts and disastrous economic policies that got us into this situation.

But they won't let you know that on Fox, will they?

Of course not because Obama is Bush III on rocket fuel (Premium Grade) except with highly delusional Socialistic tendencies.

Everyone of your teabagger are socialist. Your love to throw around words your don't know the meaning of. Please look it up the word in a dictionary.