EVen politifact sees the writing on the wall. It is amazing how the rats are jumping ship.

He should have stuck with the reality of the situation and held back with the "paid for" claim. If we do nothing and live with the projected flat economy, our revenues will continue to be insufficient to retire our debt. Putting people to work and getting a bump up on the forecast, however, will give us a chance at quicker recovery.

So the real downsize risk is that $467 billion or so gets added to the double digit trillions with no gains, while the up side potential gain is a recovered economy... beats doing nothing. Beats not being aggressive.

I can tell you one thing... a positive joint effort in this venture has many times the chance of success than a demonized single party implementation like before. No?

What the H3LL do you think this $60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis", "Wall Street Crisis", "Financial Crisis", "Banking Crisis", "Credit Crisis" etc. is ?

All made possible because the US Laws that made Illegal the Cause of the 1907 Depression and 1929-1939 Great Depression were eliminated. So same Cause same Results, the US and much of the World are currently in a Depression NOT a Recession. All the indicators of a Depression are showing.

This is what President Obama's FIRST Priority MUST have been (Reinstating the US Laws), NOT the Health Care Reform Act to get his $1 Billion USDs of Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions from the Insurance Industry (Corporations), Medical Device Industry, and Pharmaceuticals Industry.

If President Obama does nothing to Reinstate these US Laws, the Next "Crisis" of $54.6 Trillion USDs of a possible $643 Trillion USDs will sink the US into something worse than the Great Depression. And all of you will be eating rationed one per week of Obamachow (Dog Food of unknown origin).

LmarcT, where did you hear or get the impression this "plan" was up for discussion. It is not...it is either Obama's way or it does not get implemented. I did not hear an invitation to compromise, what I heard over and over was hurry get this thing passed. If it was so da m important, why did he wait until after his vacation to reveal it? Does it seem to you that any of this plan was given more then a last minute approach? If one of my graduate students came to me with a poorly designed plan such it would indeed get a failing grade. It is a work of fiction, that has no chance of seeing any implementation as it is currently structured.

Why print up another 450 billion, when they could use the bailout money that was repaid by the banks and car companies? Suppose anyone in the government thought of that one? At least maybe this time around, "if" they think of this, "and if" it it used wisely, it will do some good. Whatever you do, I wouldn't hold my breath.

This is what I did and I strongly encourage all of you to

google congressional representatives in (zip code)

you will get a list of your Senators and Representative, click on their name and it'll take you to their website. You really have to look for a way to send an email to some of them but I know mine had a way to do it.

In a nice but firm way I told them:

I would not only vote against anyone not signing this job bill but would actively campaign against anyone not signing it.

All the Republicans signed a "pledge" but when it comes down to it they want to keep their job. Put some pressure on them

@TJM07,
"has no chance of seeing any implementation as it is currently structured."

Are you saying it would have a chance to pass if it was structured differently and can you give an example of what the structure might look like?

LMarc - I thought you was finally seeing the light until I got to here in your post:

So the real downsize risk is that $467 billion or so gets added to the double digit trillions with no gains, while the up side potential gain is a recovered economy... beats doing nothing. Beats not being aggressive.

This is EXACTLY the same thing that was done with the first stimulus, which only delayed the inevitable, not fix the problem. So now, he wants "delay" number 2. There is no point repeating a failed plan. Especially when we don't have the funds to pay for this. Nor will this "help" the economy recover. There "may" be some things within the bill that could help. The spending of money on infrastructure and Teachers is not part of the help, just another payoff to the Unions, since the majority of jobs that would see this money are Union jobs.

Back to the article.....I'm glad they wrote this article. I could see this last night as I listened to the speech and was incredibly disappointed we were hearing a broken record. If nothing else, since he has a college education, he should know repeating ideas that have already been proven ineffective is not a good way to "solve" a problem. He would get a fail if this were a college paper, for stating ideas that he has no data to support.

How's this for starters.....Reduce all Federal Income Tax Brackets by 5% and institute a National Sales Tax of 5%.....Everyone buys "stuff" and the wealthy buy more stuff than the not wealthy. And this way even drug dealers, hookers and their pimps, those working for Uncle Leo under the table for cash, strippers swinging on poles for cash, all the illegals doing construction and landscaping for cash that don't pay A SINGLE DIME IN FEDERAL INCOME TAXES will contribute. They all buy stuff from stores... Just let the States collect it at the cash register by upping the sales tax they already collect....This way everyone has at least some skin in the game...There are billions of dollars being made in the underground economy....It's time they started paying for living in this country...

My taxes for my phone bill are nearly HALF the cost of the actual phone bill.

Know why?

So people without a phone can get one at no charge!

I have more itemized expenses for taxes and government fee's than I do features! I counted 3 separate 911 fees/taxes.

Rico, there is no way in heck I would send emails to Representatives to keep supporting bums! Get a job, make money or do without! What lazy entitlement babies like you need to realize Rico, is that the Republicans and Tea Party ARE doing what they were elected to do! Cut off Obamas wreckless spending! If they vote for this ignorant jobs bill they will get FIRED! They are doing what they were hired to do! CUT SPENDING!

I AM TIRED OF PAYING OTHER PEOPLES WAY! Obama is creating a nation of dependants who have become so lazy they rely on his administrations hand-outs so much they would destroy the country before getting off their a$$ and working.

I say pull the damn plug already!

Oh, I almost forgot, it is a BIG MISTAKE continuing to reduce SS taxes paid by the employee. We are reducing our "potential" future by doing this. You do realize that you are reducing your contribution, thereby, reducing the potential amount you "may" receive when you get to retirement age. (Providing the fund still exists when you retire. Actions like this will make it less likely it will be there.)

I guess 'stimulus' is a bad word for any career-campaigner.So now it's a 'jobs bill'......or maybe an attempt to use half a trillion dollars as a self injected campaign fund....whoever buys the most votes wins,I guess...We're broke...he still doesn't get it....he says social security is going broke...(mainly due to the fund being raided for years after it was made part of the general fund).....so instead of ENDING the Obama tax cuts,...he wants to continue putting less into SS through the payroll tax.....smart...All of the Bush tax cuts should have gone away,but now they've become the Obama tax cuts....and are not helping us get money coming IN.. ......Now,.just how many people will be helped by rebuilding bridges????...well, we get our steel from Canada,and China,...so they're good,..we get our wood for the concrete forms from the Balkans,.......they'll like it.....our oill for the asphalt comes from the ragheads,...(because we're not allowed to drill here,and the tree huggers don't want the pipeline from Canada)..they'll like it.......even the freighters,and tankers that bring that stuff here are mostly flagged,offshore.....so they will also benefit...........And ....if you've ever driven by a highway/bridge construction site,....you would notice maybe 3 people working,....and 5 sitting in trucks,and 2 flaggers.......for every 20 miles of construction..............so just how many Americans will this re-employ???....By calling it a jobs bill,if the congress doesn't like it,he'll blame the repubs for not 'creating' jobs'..God that's a stupid term,....the private sector creates jobs when there is a need for a product,or a service....NOT the government......I'm not partial to either party,the repubs have their heads up their a$$ almost as bad as the dums.........I'm hoping BOTH partys get their act together before the presidency goes up for bids ...(I mean election)in 2012....This country can't survive for long with this much incompentence at the wheel...............U.S.Army Disabled Veteran

rico-3714896

Thanks for the info,

but i am going to tell them if they vote for it,i will not vote for them and do anything i can to get others to not vote for them also.

So thanks again.

An American - glad you think just "doing something" is good enough.....NOT! Doing something that is not going to help and possibly make things worse than they are now is worse than doing nothing. And despite what you think, EVERYONE wants to do something, just a portion of us don't want to waste time and money repeating mistakes from the past.

Rico - I already have my legislators and the House Speaker on my computer at work. I plan to E mail all of them and firmly encourage them to fix the bill to take out the past mistakes and the items we have no money to pay for, THEN pass the bill. An up and down vote on this is a big mistake! I already am not going to vote for my Senator since he voted for Obamacare. My House Representative has been doing the right thing all along since he actually listens to his constituents.

An American-4064237,

Are you collecting any form of government hand outs? If you are past 4 months of unemployment and still collecting money then you ARE getting a government hand out. People want to say unemployment is not a government hand out, but it was NEVER designed to allow a person to collect for 99 weeks! Now they want to extend it even further!

Sounds like your one of them people that loves to spend money, but only when it's someone elses!

JK from PA says - "Stellar007, why don't we all just stop paying taxes? That way we can drink fecal-contaminated water and toss our excrement out into the streets in 5 gallon buckets"

JK from PA, when you say stop paying taxes, what taxes do you mean?

Federal Income taxes
State Income taxes
Social Security taxes
Sales taxes
Property taxes
Automobile licencing, and registration taxes
Gasoline taxes
Electricity taxes
Natural Gas taxes
Internet taxes
Telephone taxes
Cable tv taxes
Fast food taxes

PLEASE, JK from PA, tell us what taxes you suggest we quit paying, because it seems liberals like you fail to realize that there is more than just Income taxes, and by the time you add them all up it's well over 30% of the average Americans income that gets taken.

Get real! Were going to be taxed to death! At the rate Obama is spending there will be a tax on money paid on taxes!

The Liar-in-Chief will say anything to get more money to buy votes

My question is how are we going to pay for this? The President said up front that it is already paid for. Not it's not!!! He says he will instruct the super committee to cut even more while they are behind closed doors, and this is how we will pay for it. He is writing checks that we dont have the money to pay for. I'm not sure of the actual term used, but it's known where I come from as 'floating a check'. Writing a check for cash a few days before payday, hoping it doesnt hit the bank until your paycheck hits. (this is also illegal)

I have no problem with quite a few of his ideas, but I wish he didnt sound like a snake oil salesman while he was giving the speech. My main issue is with the people he gets his advice from. Why on earth would he choose the CEO of GE to lead his team on job creation? The same man the just outsourced 38000 jobs. Tell me, where is the outrage on this topic? How is this not a bigger topic of converation? God forbid anyone disagree.

I get it, because I question his policies and disagree with anything he has to say, I must be a racist, elitist, T-bagger, neo-con, obstructionist, moronic idiot who only cares about big business and thinks that the American worker should make less than minimum wage with no benefits. (I've been called every one of those names on this board before)

At the end of the day, we HAVE to reduce our spending. This isnt an option, its a requirement.

JD from PA!

I forgot about the "Sin" Taxes!

Alcohol Tax

Tobacco Tax

Lottery Tax

Oh yeah, all them taxes go to education! Well then how come Obama says most of our schools are falling apart? Is this tax money really going to education? Hmmmmm... Maybe you can tell us all where all that "Sin" tax goes?

Seems like a Sintax error to me.

It's quite obvious JK in PA is some young kid that lives at home with his parents collecting a tax free allowance for taking out the trash. Meanwhile he parrots his parents complaints about how the mean Republicans want to take away their 99 week unemployment extensions.

Pfffftt... Here is what I say, when a natural disaster happens, such as a flood or something the state should cover the clean up. How does that sound? That way the rest of the nation does not have to pay for idiots who live too close to the coast, or in a low lying bowl thats bound to fill up like a lake when it rains hard. These people brag about their great living when it's good, then whine and cry when it's bad looking for the rest of the nation to bail them out. How does that sound JK? I bet that would lower my insurance rates, along with the taxes too! It's a win-win buddy!

JK, I have no problem with some tax breaks. I firmly believe that the more people save on taxes the more they spend on goods and services. I dont think we need to roll back the tax cuts, I think we need to close the tax loopholes. I think that if, as a US based company, you send jobs overseas then you are penalized. If you bring them back, you get a tax break. I think companies should be rewarded for using US made supplies, and penalized for importing them if there are supplies available here in the US.

Quit giving companies incentives/rewards for outsourcing, and we might see a shift in their 'patriotism'.

BTW JK, that search for WMD's in Iraq was actually successful. There were chemical weapons, delivery systems and parts found. Amazing how a handful of news organizations decided to not put that story on their front page.

President Obama's speech last night reminded me of a sleazy used car salesman I once had the displeasure of associating with.

Anyone notice that even in this fact check, there was nothing in this whole thing about creating jobs. Reducing employee contributions to SS does nothing to spur jobs, yet it does quicken the bankruptcy of the SS system (at least theoretically). I say "theoretically" because that assumes that SS is self-sustaining and "off-budget" as some have pointed out. But, the fact is that it is an obligation of the government, off-budget or not, so all this does is speed up the deficit of the system.

There was nothing in here that wasn't in stimulus, and we all know how well that worked. So, bottom line is that Congress isn't going to address the spending problem, then everyone will be better off if they do nothing, Obama's fake 2012 talking points to the contrary. The repubs stand a much better chance if they are direct about this and just tell the truth. This is more vote buying pork that has no possibility of creating any permanent jobs!

JK from PA says, "Stellar, You make a good point. Taking into accounty your grammar, apparently no tax money is being spent on education."

Sorry about my grammar JK, but every since Obama was elected the cost of a teleprompter has skyrocketed. Unfortunately I have to come up with all this stuff "off the cuff" so to speak.

But thanks for agreeing with me anyway. I will take into accounty my grammar in the future. LOL

Stellar...Don't talk about grammar until you figure out why the former president invented his own language. Was that stupidity? Or just Texan BS?

I noticed in your posts you don't mention the kinds of taxes Americans pay to Big Business like the oil subsidies? The taxes we pay 50% of for that Valdez spill 20 years ago that Bush dumped on us? The tax gaps left by Corporations who don't pay their fair share and try to pay zero taxes?

Seems like the righties only know how to punch in the gut of the Middle Class. Well, guess what? How about we stop spending big bucks in red states who make prison a corporate handout? How about we stop funding HMOs with tax breaks they don't need? How about we stop funding R&D for Big Pharma who only jerks us around with their price gouging. Double dipping? You bet.

How about you gripe about the huge salaries of CEOs that can only be had by downsizing, outsourcing and offshoring?

And, just why are those corporations with thousands of foreign laborers offshore getting a tax credit? If they don't hire in the US first, shut them down.

Black, Black, Black? People "on both sides" just keep beating that drum.

Can "anyone" actually explain exactly WHY many people insist on ignoring or just never, ever mentioning Obama's "racial heritage?"

I cannot help but notice how so many insist on referring to Obama as "Black", even though he is 6.25% Black?

I haven't heard anyone EVER mentioning the FACT that Obama is 43.75% SEMITIC ARAB? Well, "except for Obama himself" in his book, "Dreams from My Father".

Even "Obama's own father, according to the Kenyan government, was "classified as '100% SEMITIC ARAB'... even though he was later found to be 12.75% Black?

The "staggering levels of ignorance and stupidity" among Americans is amazing.

Those who "say they really like the guy" actually have "little to NO idea" of what "race" the guy is? How ignorant is that? Wow.

When his detractors are accused of being "racist" by his supporters, the insinuation is that "Obama is being attacked because he is Black".

Example:

If a person was 50% Asian + 43.75% Black + 6.25% White, NO ONE would EVER call that person a "White guy". Mix up the percentages "any way you want", but "identifying any person based on "6.25%" of their racial heritage is way beyond ignorant and stupid. Proper terms for such a thing are either "bigoted or racist".

That's exactly what is so ABSURD about "playing the race card" when referring to Obama, whether it's "pro or con". Sadly, that entire issues "speaks volumes" about the staggering level of ignorance rampant among Americans today.

Dr. King talked about "someday all people will not be judged by the COLOR of their skin, but by the CONTENT of their CHARACTER?"

Yet the word "BLACK" continues to be repeated and repeated and repeated, especially by the Democrats and all of their lame-stream media supporters".

Since Obama truly is 93.75% some OTHER RACE (according to him)... why are so many people so confused, so ignorant or maybe just SO STUPID?

Yet, all these fools get to vote? Yes they certainly do, and look at what happens.

Then, we wonder "Why is Washington so screwed up?"

Remember, "stupid" is exactly the way "Washington politicians" want Americans to stay.

In the meantime, leave "race" out of your discussions. But, for those of you who INSIST on bringing it up... try to educate yourself before you continue to highlight your ignorance for all the world to see.

Fact Check: As the drop in the Dow is showing, even Wall Street knows that more of the same old wasteful spending will only result in more downgrades for U.S. debt and will not fix any of our problems.

pjam...Don't be fooled. I live 45 minutes from Wall Street and among many Wall Streeters. There is real reason for their skittishness and it has nothing to do with government. The big one is coming. They know it. They own it and they did it to themselves.

ewent, you mention oil subsidies. What specifically is being paid to oil companies. Which department or budgetary item pays any amounts directly to an oil company? This would not include jet fuel for AF1 or diesel for military vehicles, etc.

Bookem Danno...Oil subsidies that oil companies receive to "search out new sources of oil". Those are subsidies taxpayers should not be paying for anymore than we should have to be saddled with subsidies we pay so Big Pharma can do research. These are business operations costs.

The real danger is how much of your tax dollars are paying for these things and then you get zapped again as a consumer of these products when you buy them.

I'm not talking here about government projects either. Those are a separate issue. The biggest problem the US government has is controlling costs. And one of the biggest mistakes we make is giving out government contracts and then not monitoring the costs and reviewing them after the projects are completed.

If US taxpayers constantly pay out for padded bills or projects that run so far overbudget because the government doesn't take the time or effort to review the performance of these vendors upon project completion, how is that not wasteful spending? If projects run overbudget for no good reason, dump the contractors and shop around for those who can stay in budget.

Republican lawmakers have to run back to there corporate sponsors and ask their permission to vote on this. so its not likely going to happen.. It might not be that they dissagree with it, its just that the corporate string pullers disagree, and thats all that matters to them, not the people..

Two plans presented this week:

Romney proposed giving tax cut incentives to EMPLOYERS who hired in the United States, drilling oil here thereby creating jobs here and lessing our import needs and costs of energy and "slapping" China requiring them to either start complying with patent laws and human rights or lose selling power in the United States (thereby keeping some more jobs here).

Obama proposed tax increases, more unfunded spending, more future interest on that spending, and another banking institution run by the government? I still don't see where in his "jobs" bill the jobs are, other than some future union temporary jobs to repair roads. There was nothing said about long-term solutions to outsourcing our jobs to other countries.

Nice to see the Republican/TEA acknowledge that tax cuts are actually government spending. That means those Wonder Cuts of ten years ago actually increased government spending for a decade. Maybe we can finally begin addressing 'government spending' ...

The proposal is not paid for? The Republicans are going to finally demand that tax cuts are paid for? Another historic first for the President ...

The President indicated that Medicare and Medicaid reform 'must be done'. How controversial for the Republicans ...

Here is what has the Republicans worried - the President said there were 'things he can do' without Congress. And he is going to do them. The Republicans can continue to hold Congress hostage - but the President is acting.

Ending federal subsidies to the super-profitable oil companies would save $46 billion over the next 10 years, but what are the chances the debt-cutting Super Congress super-committee will consider doing so when its 12 members have received $2,147,533 from Big Oil over their careers?
According to the non-partisan group Public Campaign, the 12 members of the Super Congress committee enjoyed a total of $863,174 in campaign contributions from oil industry PACs and executives during the 2010 election cycle alone -- $791,474 to the six Republicans and $71,700 to the six Democrats.

From: USGOVINFO...google it

rico...Don't know if you caught the expression of Cronyn's (R-TX) face when President Obama mentioned that reduction in subsidies to corporations making huge profits. It was nothing less than precious.

First off, neither politifact.com or factcheck.org has fact checked this yet.

This is MSNBC's fact check, which basically says that the Republicans who make the legislation from the house can do what they want to in making this bill.

Obama can only put forth a plan, which is what a leader does, now its up to Republicans.

Good posts ewent.

R&D subsidies for companies should be either discontinued or severely curtailed. Take a look at all the tax subsidies GE receives for developing green energy. Will GE profit from this? Will the backcharge the consumer anyway? Yes and yes. Let them fund their own future profit.

As far as Wall Street and the DOW go, I agree as well....there is a crash coming. It has far outpaced growth and inflation and now it's speculation and hope. I'm just waiting for the next realization that the value of the investments aren't justified.

ewent - you mean subsidies to find new sources of oil that we're not allowed to use? I would agree that is pointless.

But, as an addenda, many companies receive subsidies for various reasons, not just oil. If we are to stop subsidies for oil, then what about the rest of them? Shouldn't they all be ended as well? Oil only receives .05 per gallon profit. Doesn't seem like much to me, considering the govt. gets more in taxes.

BTW - why was this thread collapsed? I thought it was going along pretty well!

ewent and others, a tax deduction is not a direct subsidy. Farmers get direct payments (a subsidy) from the government. The exploration subsidy you mention above is a tax deduction.

Again, I ask what subsidies oil companies get from the government? Just so we are clear, this is a direct payment and not a tax deduction.

If you want to talk about tax deductions on the other hand, other than the exploration deduction, what deductions are specific only to the oil industry?

So, let us deplete Social Security further, gotcha. We're gonna cut spending by raising taxes, gotcha. We're gonna make more shovel-ready jobs to give to the unions, again, gotcha. We're going to give you a tax credit to hire someone who hasn't worked in almost three years and add to your business expenses if you're not making enough to stay in business, as an incentive, well, words fail me....

This thread is a little comical. FactCheck exposes the President as a big liar, and this degenerated into slams against Republicans and Tea Party members?

Your President just gave a speech filled with lies, trying to force us into $450 billion in additional debt, in order to hire more leftie union workers. This is his big plan.

Oh, and it's not actually ready. Yeah, all that time "working" on vacation, and he didn't even get his homework done?

A first year junior executive would be fired for this kind of incompetence.

Obama needs to keep his mouth SHUT,

he gave a speech last night and today,

the stock market fell 300 points,

every time he gives a speech the market falls

"I haven't heard anyone EVER mentioning the FACT that Obama is 43.75% SEMITIC ARAB? Well, "except for Obama himself" in his book, "Dreams from My Father"."

Oh, Speedy, back at it, are you? You've been challenged on this before. EXACTLY WHICH page of Dreams from My Father" does this appear?

rico-3714896Restored

"I would not only vote against anyone not signing this job bill but would actively campaign against anyone not signing it.

All the Republicans signed a "pledge" but when it comes down to it they want to keep their job. Put some pressure on them.

Rico, this bill by Obama is more smoke and mirrors. It is not the governments job to create jobs at taxpayer expense. It is governments job to get out of the way and make regulations that promote business thru the private sector. Obama's stimulus was a total failure and only created more government/union jobs for a short period of time.

Government produces nothing except regulations on businesses. Reduce the regulations and adjust taxes to encourage more business in America's private sector, increase taxes on all corporations sending jobs overseas, and reduce government regulation. Until that happens, you/we will see high unemployment.

Government produces only more government and that is the problem, whether you are right, left or in the middle.

Hey rico.....consider it done, but I will be telling my representives the direct opposite of what you told yours. Tooooo bad, hate it for ya.

"White House aides suggested that new deficit spending in the near-term to try to promote job creation would be paid for in the future — the "out years," "

If a private company tried this, it would be called an illegal 'bait & switch' tactic.

Obama knows that any 'promises' of cuts in spending for the "out years" is meaningless, since each new Congress gets to set its own spending plans, and is not bound by any 'promises' of previous Congresses.

That's the common thread in all of Obama's proposals - Get something NOW in return for a meaningless 'promise' in the future, preferably when he is no longer in office.

I agree Roy...... That is exactly how Obamacare was passed.

Nancy Pelosi: "You have to pass it to see whats in it." (sheesh)

Liberal or Conservative – Which are you?

It seems to me that the basic premise of each is as follows;

LIBERAL - Someone who believes that we should 'redistribute' income so that there is a basic 'fairness' in society wherein those 'less fortunate' are given a helping hand so that all of their needs are provided, and paid for by the 'fortunate', who can easily afford it. They will support ever increasing taxes.

CONSERVATIVE – Someone who thinks that people should be try to be self-sufficient, and that while certain basic 'safety net' expenditures are legitimate, we need to provide an incentive for people to succeed in America and not 'reward' people who make bad choices in their personal lives. They will support lower taxes.

Both are legitimate points of view, but I would submit that our choice should be based on what's best for our children and grandchildren, not what's best for us personally, because that would be selfish.

I must admit that I tend to favor the Conservative point of view, because I believe that it will create the best possible future for my children and grandchildren. This is my reasoning;

Studies have shown that the larger the level of government spending in 'redistributing' income, the slower will be the rate of overall economic growth and the higher the unemployment rate will be. A slower economic growth rate and higher unemployment rate will create far fewer opportunities for my children and grandchildren to realize their 'potential'.

I think that, while most people tend to favor the largely Conservative viewpoint, the reality is that we currently have largely Liberal social policies.

So which are you?

In one hand you have 787 Billion, and in the other hand you have 450 Billion. You spend 787 Billion to stimulate the economy causing job growth keeping unemployment below 8%. Now you realize unemployment has not changed; rather, stalled. You have nothing to show for spending 787 Billion. So you should do what? Spend the 450 Billion in your other hand?

Of course you should if you are Obama. He wants nothing else but to kick this economy issue under the rug until another year passes. If the Republicans try to stop Obama's attempt to "kick the can down the road", they will be blamed for the economy not improving over the next year by the Democrats. Unfortunately, I believe many more Americans are familiar with this political maneuver today than ever before. Politics as usual is not acceptable anymore. MSNBC pretty much demonstrates this by publishing this article.

I believe the only way Obama can get elected in 2012 is if he ran on the following platform. Call it the 123 approach to getting America back on the road to real economic recovery.

1. Stand before the American people and announce he wants to rescind his HCR law because it's bad for America. He can simply say "We need to do better for the People of America".
2. Demand Congress to pass a balance budget amendment to the Constitution
3. Demand Congress to REPLACE the current tax code with a simple, fair tax that EVERYONE would pay when they purchase something, not before.

But he won't. Obama isn't interested in fixing the obvious.

President Obama is just giving America a lesson in Chicago style politics,you can call it sleight of hand,you can call it creative accounting,or you can call it what it is just plain straight up lying to the taxpayers! Could there ever be a more clear example of generational theft. Damn it Obama{STOP} digging this deep hole for our children and grandchildren,enough of your nonsense!

What is it the Repubs/TP have brought to the table other than cut SSN and Medicare? Yeah, we hear great solutions from them don't we? If they get back into office we'll get half a can of dog food per day. They have to take care of those Koch Bros you know.

I believe Dr.Ron Paul may have described this situation veryaccurately.....''Deficits mean future tax increases, pure and simple. Deficit spending should be viewed as a tax on future generations, and politicians who create deficits should be exposed as tax hikers.''........ I mean really does president Obama really think the American taxpayer is so damn stupid?

Sometimes its better to do nothing at all, than to do something completely ignorant. Id rather our government do NOTHING than to in-debt our children another 1/2 trillion dollars.

We wont see any of this money! His lies are so blatant that even a kid could read the writing on the wall. If Obama finds $450 billion more in cuts, but then spends that $450 billion it's quite obvious there was no savings, not to mention some other program is going to get the axe.

Hey Peace Lover, so you are admitting that GW Bush was a Tax Hiker? No one's trying to kid anyone here. The more jobs that are created, the debt becomes less of a problem. The faster jobs are created, the debt becomes less of a problem faster. The debt is just water under the bridge. We're the richest counrty in the world. As long as we're creating jobs, the debt will dwindle away. But it takes time. It never happens over night. THe US economy shrank under Bush and we're still recovering from it. We need a jobs plan. Without jobs, the debt won't ever go away.

People keep trying to blame Bush. I wonder where all these people were 9-11-2001 when America was attacked? It wasn't Bush that wasted a bunch of money, it was the terrorist who forced his hand and cost us the money spent on Bush's watch.

You mean the terrorist that Obama captured, raided and killed? That terrorist?

Why doesn't Obama just be honest to the senior citizens and say....... ''Grandma and Grandmother in 14 months we will have an election and I could lose my job! So even though social security is going bust I want to permanetly lower social security taxes so sorry but I love this job and damn it I am having a really great time traveling, having parties with celebrities and rappers and wow I get to play on the best golf courses, Ugh let's see not sure what else to say grandma and grandpa? Oh yeah vote for me you will be okay and by the time your grandkids try to collect I will be long gone hee hee hee!''.......Well he does love his job and is having such a great time?

Social Secruity was fine until Bush stole from it to pay for unnessesary wars and left it as a bunch of IOUs.

erickorg So do you think social security is healthy enough to permanetly lower the payroll tax?...........''Bush stole from it to pay for unnessesary wars'' Do you have a link for this or does it just sound cooool?

erickorg

they have been stealing from Social Security ever since it was created.

www.huffingtonpost.com/sen_don_riegle/post_1901_b_845106.html

I agree ''they'' have been stealing from social security and now Obama Is using it for his reelection campaign! Agree with you

Roland Tibbs

PL: I want Social Security healthy enough to pay for Social Security. Pay it back and stop borrowing from it.

RT: What's your point? What? It's cool not to pay it back?

PL: You're saying Obama is taking SS money to pay for his campaign or that he's using the SS issue as a topic to run on?

erickorg Is this really so hard to understand? Has the fact that social security is in deep financial shape been front and center for 20years or more? Obama who is a very intelligent man knows this very well agreed? And yet 14 months before his day of reckoning he wants to permanently lower the amount we all pay into a bankrupt system thereby hastening it's insolvency.

Peace lover, by the comments on this thread, it appears that we are that stupid. The BIG truth that is being shoved under the table is that the problems we are in right now are a direct result of Republican policy over the last 30 years! If you could bring yourself to grasp that reality, most of the hatred for the current scapegoat, Obama, would calm down and we could ALL try to help solve this mess.

Personally, I dont think that will happen given the whirlwind of political rhetoric and anger out there. So, I propose we allow Perry to become POTUS and spend another eight years of ignorance hoping we come out on the other end with a better, more enlightened, 21st Century vision of what America really is all about. CORPORATIONS!

PeaceLover: " . . .does president Obama really think the American taxpayer is so damn stupid?"

Why Not? Bush/Cheney played us into an illegal war that cost "future generations" a trillion dollars of TAXPAYER CASH! Maybe we should ask those two clowns if they would like to kick in their Bush-GOP-Driven tax cut (AKA: Welfare for the Wealthy).

Oh, answer to your question: Absolutely! And thanks to GOP-led cuts to education, we will only get dumber. Build up military, dumb down populace. The fall of Rome has begun.

Stellar: "Sometimes its better to do nothing at all, than to do something completely ignorant"

Good thing Edison didn't use that stupid excuse for laziness! Seems to be the GOP mantra . . . . BE AFRAID AND DO NOTHING!

JK from PA

''Bush/Cheney played us into an illegal war that cost "future generations" Yes I agree I am anti-war and a fiscal conservative and therefore will not vote for Bush Cheney or Obama! Ron Paul is the Anti war fiscal conservative running in 2012!

tex2c2,

You do realize that is was a DEMOCRAT that allowed the Social Security TRUST to be placed in the GENERAL ledger right?

You can hush up now, thank you.

And as for JK from PA, well Edison was inventing a light bulb. Each time he failed he only had himself to blame, likewise it was only him time that was wasted. Do you think Edison would have ever been highly regarded if he failed? Do you think Edison wasted time trying the same exact thing that failed the time before? Wake up guy!

You mean the terrorist that Obama captured, raided and killed? That terrorist?

erickorg, please tell me that youre not implying that it was the Presidents idea/plan to get Bin Laden? You're really not saying that, right? I dont recall him being on that mission....if he was, I'm sure we would have heard about it.

Stellar:...yeah, everybody forgets about Johnson..........

Stellar: "Do you think Edison wasted time trying the same exact thing that failed the time before." Like the Bush tax cuts?

Thanks for the elementary history lesson. Again, you miss the point.

Stellar: People keep trying to blame Bush. I wonder where all these people were 9-11-2001 when America was attacked? It wasn't Bush that wasted a bunch of money, it was the terrorist who forced his hand and cost us the money spent on Bush's watch.

What I want to know is where was Bush on 9-11-2001? He wasn't looking out for the citizens of this country. It was Bush that turned a surplus into a deficit when he gave his rich buddies a tax break right after he got elected. It was Bush that put two wars on the countries credit card.

Govt Issue: Kinda' like "Mission Accomplished", Bush Style? Where pomp and circumstance aboard the USS Lincoln, a la taxpayer money, massages an inflated ego for doing exactly nothing about capturing/killing bin Laden?

DeJay,

Bush was at an elementary school reading "My Pet Goat" to some elementary school children the morning of 9-11-2001.

Now ask yourself how much differently things would have been under Bush had he been able to finish reading that book to the kids, rather than having to stop and deal with the 9/11 tragedy for 7 years.

Wake up guy, the Democrat smoke and mirrors aren't going to work in 2012.

JK from PA,

Are you talking about the same Mission Accomplished banner that the Democrats borrowed and hung up over the Libya mission before Gaddafi was captured? To date Gaddafi is still at large. Or how about when it was claimed his kids were captured by the rebels, only to be campaigning in the streets of the same city (Tripoli) the rebels claimed to have sacked? At least Bush got his man before he hoisted the Mission Accomplished banner.

Kid, I think your parents need to go back to school and take some history lessons, but be sure they do so on their own dime, not using some tax payer funded subsidies.

OMG...the amount of partisan bickering going on in here is awe inspiring. It's no wonder this country is in the ruins it is when we all shlep to one extreme of the political spectrum just like the politicians want us to.

Hey Leftists...just so you know, it wasn't all Bush's fault, and the Republicans DO NOT want to destroy the middle class. That's just a ridiculous statement.

Hey Righties...just so you know, Obama is NOT the anti-Christ and helping out those who CAN'T (not WON'T) help themselves is not a bad thing.

This Government has succeeded in it's intended goal. They've successfully divided the populace into polar opposition so that they can guarantee their continued employment and pocket lining at our expense. As long as there is a "villain" to blame your short comings on, then all is good...right?

For everyone who's convinced that your political party is right...you're wrong. They are both good, and both bad. They do have one thing in common. They hold us, the populace, in contempt. They are convinced that we need them to micromanage our lives, and they will continue to treat us like the children they are convinced we are.

to Gov't Issue: I'm sorry, Obama was in the WAR ROOM, he wasn't out back wearing a cowboy hat and clearing brush.

Guess he was only half white while in the war room so it doesn't count i guess?

Bush did finish reading the book because he didn't want the kids to be aware of the attack that was unfolding.

obama would've been standing on a stage flanked by teleprompters giving a campaign speech to the kids and would have wet his pants when those horrible words were whispered to him.

erickorg - You mean the terrorist that Obama captured, raided and killed? That terrorist?

erickorg - to Gov't Issue: I'm sorry, Obama was in the WAR ROOM

Face it you are out of your league here on Newsvine.

President Obama was Overrule by the US Military Leadership and the US Intelligence Leadership to conduct the Special Reconnaissance Mission to Pakistan (nobody could confirm OBLwas there). This mission then became a Direct Action after OBL was confirmed to be there.

President Obama was not here at Afghanistan getting on MH-47s, MH-60s, MH-6s wearing stereoscopic night vision goggles and taking off from Bagram AFB.

Because President Obama previously distanced himself to save his Political Career in case of failure during the rescue of Captain R. Phillips at Somalia, and when was asked permission to terminate the Somali Pirates, President Obama froze up. So the Commander of the USS Bainbridge as the On Scene Commander (OSC) and the USN SEAL Team Commander used "Imminent Danger" to circumvent President Obama and ordered the USN SEAL Team snipers with M110s to terminate the Somali Pirates. If the Mission would have failed the OSC and the USN SEAL Team Commander who have ended up at the nearest Brig, Federal Penitentiary or Fort Leavenworth Disciplinary Barracks for "Exceeding Authority".

On many occasionsin the past previous Presidents distanced themselves from US Military Mission that might fail to save their Political Careers and the Office of the President. And after success boosted their Political Career by publicizing everything.

Because of President Obama's previously freezing up, Leon Penetta established a means to Order the Termination of OBL in case President Obama froze up again (which he did). So his source informed him and Leon Penetta ordered the Termination of OBLas allowed after President Bush amended the US No Assassination Policy. If you look really carefully at the picture and know who they all are, you would be able to figure out who told Leon Penetta that President Obama froze up.

http://www.shoppingblog.com/extras/obama_biden_clinton_situation_room_osama_mission_large.jpg

During this Operation there was also a communications Blackout of 23 minutes between the White House and the Mission; however, the communications between the Mission and the CIA was still intact.

Telling you any more about the C4I of this Operation would go beyond what you need to know.

By the way, President Obama never listened to his on the Ground Commanders and had three in a row tender their Letters of Resignation, General McKiernan, General McChrystal, General Petraeus, after he made deals with them. General McKiernan retires as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General, General McChystal retires as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General, General Petraeus retires as a Four Star General instead of a Three Star Lieutenant General and moves to the President's Executive Intelligence Agency, CIA. President Obama had to make these deals because he did not have a legal leg to stand on, as to fire them would result in a US Congressional Hearing that would make Public "This Administration Does Not Know What It Is Doing" and end President Obama's Political Career, as unnecessary deaths of US Citizens of the US Military. Secretary of Defense Gates intervenedwith General Petraeus and told President Obama that it would end his Political Career if he relievedthree Generals in a Row. I have been here since General McKiernan; and even previously during the US Military Training Teams to train the 1980s Pro Afghan Muhajeen during the USSR 40th Army Occupation.

erickorg - Social Secruity was fine until Bush stole from it to pay for unnessesary wars and left it as a bunch of IOUs.

Congress has the Purse, not the US President. Agreed that the Money for the US Citizen Contributory Fund, Social Security MUST be paid back.

So:

Iraq: US Law, 1998, H.R.4655 "Overthrow President Hussein" with US Congress Appropriations.

After all the means of H.R.4655 failed to Overthrow President Hussein, US Congress used the final option, the US Military and Declared War at Iraq, using the previously Congressionally Approved Intelligence of H.R.4655, for US Law, Iraqi War Resolution with Congressional Appropriations.

Iraq is a UN Mission, Nation Building.

Afghanistan has similar US Laws with Congressional Appropriations.

Afghanistan is also a UN Mission, Nation Building.

President Obama's Libya does not have a US Law with Congressional Appropriations before the first US Military Actions. President Obama broke a Campaign Promise to NOT use Discretionary Spending (how he paid for the start of US Military and CIA SAD Actions at Libya.). Any US Law with Congressional Appropriations written after the First US Military Actions is evidence of President Obama breaking US Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution (a criminal impeachable, kicked out of office offense).

erickorg,

Obama may have only been half white while in the War Room, but on his census forum he filled in the little box that said "African American".

Race card swiped,

Processing...

Processing...

Processing...

DECLINED!

I am sorry erickorg the race card is maxed out, much like our national credit card.

Even if you want to exclude the 8 years Bush set up shop in the middle east to find Osama it still took the Obama administration almost 3 years to get him. Even still, sitting in the war room is hardly considered "Obama" getting Osama. It was the American Military that got Osama, not Obama.

So until Obama is in the "War Room" pressing the button to nuke China he's really like teats on a bull... Useless.

Stellar...You are part of the problem with this country. Bash away at this president, give his predecessor a free pass, do nothing but sit on a bunch of right wing asses and bitch till the cows come home. Oh yeah...that'll really help move this country forward.

What's the matter Tea Party shills got another bunch of millions to shill for the Koch Billionaire Birchers?

You can either join the rest of Americans who are fed up with right wing BS holding this country back or you can be left behind. Which is exactly where we all intend to make sure the Tea Party is located permanently.

We've had enough of their bully BS that gets the US no where. Your posts are not answers to problems. Why bother?

JK from PA - Bush/Cheney played us into an illegal war

and PeAcE LoVeR-2838047

Nope read above post#2.32.

DeJay It was Bush that turned a surplus into a deficit when he gave his rich buddies a tax break right after he got elected.

Nope. US Congress "sandbagged" appropriated more money than could be spent. A Budget created by Professional Politicians for a Professional Politician and none of them can balance their own personal checkbooks.

The Real Indicators of the US Economy are the National Debt and the Interest on the National Debt:

Source Democratic National Committee (DNC):

President Clinton's Interest on the National Debt, $18.9 Billion USDs.

President Bush's Interest on the National Debt, $16.6 Billion USDs.

DeJay - It was Bush that put two wars on the countries credit card.

Nope. Read post#2.32.

JK from PA - Govt Issue: Kinda' like "Mission Accomplished", Bush Style?

Once again proving that 92% of US Citizens Never served in the US Military.

During those times every USN Ship or Submarine, displayed a "Misson Accomplished" banner just after completing a Mission (and painted on a campaign ribbon) before returning to port. This continued until the Secretary of the Navy told them to stop, because the US Civilians believed that this meant the end of the War and not just the completion of a specific mission.

And the Mission that President Bush Accomplished was as stated by US Laws, 1998 H.R.4655 "Overthrow of President Hussein", and the use of US Military Force to "Overthrow President Hussein", 2002 Iraqi War Resolution. These US Laws said nothing about capturing or killing President Hussein. It was General Petraeus right hand man, General McChrystal's Teams of the JSOCTF Iraq that captured President Hussein.

For everyone who's convinced that your political party is right...you're wrong. They are both good, and both bad. They do have one thing in common. They hold us, the populace, in contempt. They are convinced that we need them to micromanage our lives, and they will continue to treat us like the children they are convinced we are.

Excellent point Gede, the best thing that could happen for the US is to abolish political parties, but it will never happen. It would be incredible to see politicians run on their OWN plans, records, and values instead of their parties.

David...Good way of reinterpreting history. And what exactly was so important about taking out Saddam Hussein that couldn't wait until bin Laden was taken out first? Or were the Bush family's ties to the Saudi so loyal that bin Laden was off limits as many now suspect?

What was the reason for bothering with Iraq when as you claiim Bush's accomplished his mission to take out Saddam Hussein. Your post makes absolutely no sense.

We all know that the war in Iraq played out long after Bush left office and was anything but Mission Accomplished. Not when you consider that it took 3,000 American lives, tens of thousands of our military maimed and injured, and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilian deaths. A Blackwater scandal and a WMD scandal that proved it was Herr Cheney hot to get Halliburton their war in Iraq.

After all, the government records prove that a no bid contract was granted to Halliburton. See any conflicts of interest there yet? Cheney never did either. Now thanks to two right wing jerks who got us into Iraq without a real reason, other than to get back at Saddam Hussein for jerking around Big Daddy Bush, American taxpayers will be paying Halliburton bills for two more generations. Way to stop wasteful spending.

David I do agree that Iraq and Afghanistan were not"illegal'' wars, Afghanistan was justified,but ten years? Iraq a huge mistake imho. Thanks.

david-475776 I would also like to say I always look forward to your posts and always learn something, appreciate your service to our country.

Peace Lover...If you actually ever studied the most recent history of Afghanistan, you'd realize that this is a country that is on a par with the drug ridden country of Colombia and more recently, Mexico.

Unless you profess to know the destruction of the Taliban in Afghan government, you are off base. The Taliban makes big bucks from selling drugs around the globe. This was part of the reason George W. Bush supported that war in Afghanistan. And why before him, Clinton also supported it.

Your posts only prove how far right wingers will go to ram their ideology down the throats of others even if it means bashing our president to a pulp and posting misguided contortions of truth.

I take it you never heard that Bush interview regarding Afghanistan? From your posts, I'd say Limbaugh is more the prime source of your "facts".

Erik.. Can you tell us what Obama has done so well that you blindly support him? You really want to give him credit for killing osama? You obvious have no idea how the intelligence community works. If I were to come and tell you I know exactly where osama is, gave you the weapon, drove you to the house, have you wait in the car while I go in and get him, and then bring him out so you can pull the trigger, would you really have the nerve to claim all the credit? That is exactly what youre doing, and its pathetic. Stop being such a sheep! People should be followed because of results, not party affilation. Bush made tons of mistakes, and his party suffered because of it. Obama has only continued and amplified the mistakes made by Bush, and he should be held accountable.

erickorg,

Let me try another way to get you to understand....The President, regardless of his political affiliation, does nothing more than give the 'go order' on occasion. That's it, no more, end of story, period, done. He is NOT involved in the planning, movement, infiltration, operation, exfiltration or de-briefing. He has military commanders to do that. He has intelligence services to do that. He has subject matter experts that handle those things. There probably werent too many people that were happier than I was the night we learned he was dead, but my congratulations did NOT go to the President for his outstanding leadership...it went to the Service Members who actually do the damn job.

JK, the mission accomplished banner you are referring to...let me explain this. Had you listened to the speech, and paid attention to what was going on, that WAS a mission accomplished. The 'Mission Accomplished' that President Bush was referring to involved defeating Iraq's military. That was it. I believe he even said the job wasnt done yet, if memory serves me correctly.

I understand that not everyone here agrees with me or my personal politics and thats fine, but I wont sit quietly while someone wants to attack me for my opinion, especially when it comes to service to this great nation. Put on a uniform and do something, then come back and talk to me.

ewent Your post is confusing are you trying to convince me that ten years in Afghanistan is not enough because of drug lords?.....''If you actually ever studied the most recent history of Afghanistan, you'd realize that this is a country that is on a par with the drug ridden country of Colombia and more recently, Mexico.'' This is nonsense what does this have to do with Afghanistan you have no idea what you are talking about and neither does anyone else.

Alex...What has President Obama done? In 3 years, ten times what Bush ever did in his first 3. President Obama has organized the military structure to insure that the American military is not just visible but visibly effective for which I am very proud. He tackled the problem of unaffordable healthcare. He's reversed the Bush decree on the Gitmo issues that allowed torture. He passed ARRA, which was the response to Bush's TARP. He gave GM initiative to restart American manufacturing and has pushed for new alternative industries across the country. Something Big Oil Bush wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole because it would make his state less profitable.

I am voting to re-elect President Obama because I want my country to move forward. I want it to become strong and for all Americans to have equal prosperity.

I will never vote for any Republican ever again so long as they continue to jerk around Americans of the Middle Class.

PeaceLover...Ignorance bliss for you? A country that makes billions from drugs is a country capable of taking yours down with nuclear weapons. Surely you can't be that dense. Did you think that drug money doesn't rise to the top of the Afghan goverment? Some Afghans want President Karzai out because they believe he is profiting from the drug lords of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

The Taliban, like al Qaeda, are largely supported by profits they earn from illegal drugs.

You need to educate yourself and listen to the voice of the Afghan people instead of Rush Limbaugh.

ewent ''I take it you never heard that Bush interview regarding Afghanistan?'' Yes I have heard of these interviews and have not taken the time to listen to them,because I am frankly not interested as it is irrelevant to a war that took 3 weeks to execute yet ten years later we have over 100,000 troops there. So what can Bush tell me about the situation? Obama has increased troop levels by 60,000 and you know what it will not do a damn bit of good. We can stay in Afghanistan 30 years and leave and nothing will have changed.

ewent This really shows me you have no idea what you are talking about, these people still wipe their behinds with their hands and you are worried they will nuke us? Why doesn't Obama order the destruction of the poppy fields if that is what you liberals are worried about? Is he just too stupid or incompetent or both?

''PeaceLover...Ignorance bliss for you? A country that makes billions from drugs is a country capable of taking yours down with nuclear weapons.''

PeaceLover...Your posts are about as nonsensical as a Ringling Circus Clown's. You are obsessed with blaming this and only this president, are you not? Therefore, your posts lack credibility. You didn't hear the Bush interview and you aren't interested? Then why make comments if you are not educated on that particular point?

I am worried that too much drug money in the billions can buy huge amounts of weapons.

You surely cannot be so ignorant as to think an American president is going to violate a sovereign nation as Bush did in Iraq and just order the poppy fields destroyed do you?

I'm sorry if DogPatch doesn't teach civics these days. However, my posts are based upon facts and yours are an obsession to taking down this president.

Where do you people get off thinking you have such power than you can overrule those of us who voted for this president by a Constitutional majority rule insured and guaranteed by the US Constitution. Guess that's another thing not taught in DogPatch these days.

Oh look, the Koch brothers are paying extra today to try and put a negative spin on Obama's jobs bill today.

Guess what ? It's not working !!!!!

PeaceLover...Shows what you know about the Afghan people. There are quite a number who are farmers who produce viable crops but their country has a huge wealth of engineers. So much for your so-called knowledge.

Eric...Glad you noticed it too. I have a feeling working for the Koch Birchers was not exactly the jobs stimulus our President had in mind. I do wonder how much they pay these shills though. You can tell most of them have little or no education simply by the way they post.

When you think about it, the Koch brothers are the answer to political Jerry Springers who exploit those with the least educations and think that kind of money will make them wealthy one day. Dream on, right?

ewent Why didn't Bush and why hasn't Obama ordered the destruction of the Poppy fields that you are convinced that the taliban will somehow use the money from to nuke us? I know

ewent you will easily be able to answer this as you are an expert on Afghanistan and you watched the Bush interviews.

Ewent, how can you say that anyone lacks credibility? You said that he wanted to blame everything on this President- I didn't see him say that. But let's take it a step further. If you say he hyas no credibility for trying to blame everything on Obama (which he didn't), how do you have credibility for trying to blame everything on Bush- which you obviously do?

Let's see if you can just answer that question without going on another tangent. I'm not holding my breath.

Let's see this President of the United States has been strong on defense and diplomacy with a real record to run on. None of the Republicans/TEA want to highlight that ...

So the argument is that 'defense' is so easy, anyone can do it. 'Defense' does not require leadership - only the 'boots on the ground' count. The Republicans/TEA finally admit they have been lying all along ...

or Republicans/TEA are admitting this President of the United States has done his job well ...

Is defense the only pre-requisite to doing a good job? I think some would argue about his record on defense- Afghanistan isn't great, Libya was handled well... Either way, is that all you base your assessment on?

Peace Lover...Because the US is a member nation of the UN. As such we have treaties with countries that disallows us to just walk into any country we please and destroy it without just cause. Get it yet?

I am not convinced any nation would nuke us per se unless they felt the US agitated that situation to that degree. I am convinced that more field weapons and arms can be purchased from neighboring countries allied with Afghanistan against the US.

You just proved you are a liar. In your post you stated: "Yes I have heard of these interviews and have not taken the time to listen to them,because I am frankly not interested as it is irrelevant to a war that took 3 weeks to execute yet ten years later we have over 100,000 troops there."

You've heard of those interviews? But you didn't listen to them? With all due respect, you cannot possibly make comments on an interview you have neither heard not had any interest in hearing.

The first reason we were in Afghanistan as Bush correctly pointed out was a response to the bombing in NY in 1993. It was the first brush with al Qaeda and as all of the CIA experts on al Qaeda stated, Afghanistan was where it was believed bin Laden's main operations were located.

So, it didn't just take 3 weeks to execute. It took years to find the location of the operations given the mountainous terrain in Afghanistan and al Qaeda's access to assistance in keeping bin Laden on the move. It wasn't until some of al Qaeda's top leaders under bin Laden were caught and killed that bin Laden's days were numbered.

By the way, if ever you want to be as knowledgeable about foreign affairs, don't look for it in US media. US media is owned by neoconservative right wingers like Zuckerman, Murdoch and Turner.

The Republicans/TEA are admitting that tax cuts are government spending - that needs to be paid for. Another historic first for this President of the United States ...

The Republican tax cuts enacted ten years ago have added to government spending for over a decade. Maybe now the Republicans/TEA can begin to address 'government spending' ...

that or admit the President's proposed tax cuts do not add to the deficit and there is no need to 'pay' for them ...

ewent

''A country that makes billions from drugs is a country capable of taking yours down with nuclear weapons''.........''I am not convinced any nation would nuke us per se'.....' I can see that you are now backtracking and contradicting yourself which tells me that you really don't know what you are talking about as far as Afghanistan and please try not pontificating on a subject that you obviously have very little knowledge of.

ChiCity...I don't find people credible when they cannot be objective. Do you? If President Obama and only President Obama is to blame for everything, what if McCain had won instead? See what I mean?

With good reading comprehension skills, it's easy to read a post and see clearly the point. That is, after all, what communication is all about; Making a point.

I didn't vote for Bush because he was already a 2-time loser before he took office. He was ripe for exploitation by the more power-obsessed Cheney and his own father who was a world class manipulator. However, once he was elected, I gave him a fair shot. I didn't begin by refusing to support him from Day One. I had hoped he'd learned from the mistakes of his youth. I was wrong. Perhaps, it's true that a leopard can't change its spots.

The President of the United States pointed out that Medicare and Medicaid need reform. He opened the door for that political debate. How controversial for the Republicans/TEA ...

The President of the United States did not mention Social Security because that program is sound. The Republicans/TEA said so during the debt limit sitcom. The Republicans/TEA specifically pointed out there is enough money to pay SocSec benefits - the government would not default. The Republicans/TEA specifically pointed to the 14th amendment that bondholders would be paid first. The OASDI Trust is the largest single government bondholder. The Republicans/TEA confirmed that Social Security is secure ...

No Ewent, I don't see what you are saying. You refuse to assign any of the blame for the current mess to Obama, you assign it all to Bush. So, you are not being even remotely objective.

Nerm, talk about spin. During the debt debate, the Tea Party (and for the record, I am no supporter of the Tea Party, but do support fair debate) said that if we defaulted, or the government shut down temporarily, the social security checks could still be mailed on schedule. It had nothing to do with the long term solvency of the program, but I think you know that. It was a response to the scare tactic of Obama saying that social security checks would not go out if the ceiling wasn't raised before the deadline. Intellectual dishonesty at its best.

ewent Why didn't Bush and why hasn't Obama ordered the destruction of the Poppy fields that you are convinced that the taliban will somehow use the money from to nuke us?.... I asked you this and your answer is this?..... ''Peace Lover...Because the US is a member nation of the UN. As such we have treaties with countries that disallows us to just walk into any country we please and destroy it without just cause. Get it yet?''... Like I said please try to refrain from discussing the issue of Afghanistan and stick to your usual rants {teabags,fauxnews,rightwingers,rush limbaugh,bush cheney} Okay?

This is what the Republicans voted for.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/05/ryans-budget-spin/

David I do agree that Iraq and Afghanistan were not"illegal'' wars, Afghanistan was justified,but ten years? Iraq a huge mistake imho. Thanks.

David & PeAcE LoVeR

There is another position that you should consider. Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Afghanistan are not Central Bank compliant nations. They use they own currency with their own gold reserves. These nations are also against using the USD as the world oil currency.

These wars are all about the ruling elites taking over their banking systems and enslaving their populace into endless inflation/deflation.

Prior to the rebel uprising in Libya, these so called rag-tag rebels formed and incorporated a Central Banking system with a governor to oversee the bankers interest. The people of Libya will now be enslaved into a debt system that they will forever be bury them!!

As for our current wars in Afghanistan, LIbya and Iraq, it will not be Obama's decision as Commander and Chief when troops will be pulled out. This military decision will be decided by the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) and those who control the money supply. The names of these members of the CFR and other elite groups are the exact same names that control the money. War makes HUGE profits for the Bankers and their corporate cronies who FUND their pals at tax payer cost! Specifically the Military Industrial Complex. Our soldiers are their in the name of freedom (thanks to our propaganda machines we call the MSM) but in all reality its all about Banking, oil, water and other natural resources. Our founding fathers tried to warn us about the BANKERS!

The ELITES invading these countries was predictable!!! The US will pick a fight with Syria (in the name of humanitarian reasons once again or some kind of FALSE FLAG OP) hoping to draw Iran into the mix next. Watch and see! its coming very very soon!!

Why didn't Bush and why hasn't Obama ordered the destruction of the Poppy fields that you are convinced that the taliban will somehow use the money from to nuke us?....

Here are some reasons why. Just look to the past!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_drug_trafficking

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/VietnamCIADrugs.htm

Aldos...its amazing..you and most all others place all blame on Obama..he is just one person in washington ...we have over 500 politicans who have told bigger lies than this..yet they all keep getting elected and those complaining today are the ones votiong the same senators and house reps into office each year. How is it you all can believe a senator who will tell you anything to get elected every few years yet not have some faith in a president who is limited to 2 terms? We have today a republican party who,,if possible will do wonders for the wealthy and nothing for the middle class, those on social security and the poor. MOst folks need to remember that we all end up as seniors and will need social security sooner or later...Consider also, there was nothing wrong with the social security funds until congress started handing out IOU's to it. And they have been doing that for many years...Congress, rather than pay for their wild spending way back when all of a suden now, with oiur economy in the dumps, wants to make everything right..? I for one do not believe a thing the republicans have said...and not much on what the democrates claim either.

Wow, a 450 billion dollar price tag, lets throw some more of the tax payers money away. The plan can not create enough jobs to honestly help our failing economy or the American people. Maybe the tax breaks will give some money back but it won't create one friggen job.

Mr. president address our failed free trade agreements and address illegal immigration.

I will say it again, since the implementation of the North American Free Trade Agreement on January 1,1994 during Clinton's presidency the American people lost over 20 million jobs. It opened the door making it profitable for American based companies/corporations to move to foreign nations to set up shop to take advantage of slave labor, no environmental standards and no unions. This agreement and similar ones sold out the American worker and obliterated the American based manufacturing industry.

Now add the 20 million or so illegal immigrants to the mix and we have the mess we are now facing. The American people have to compete with illegal's for job positions and in some cases businesses hire illegal's instead of citizens as they pay them less, don't have to contribute to any workers benefits and don't have to make sure they have good/safe working conditions. The savings are huge.

Illegal's also take business away from American small businesses since they will do it for less, such as house painting, landscaping,roofing and similar.

We had the implementation of NAFTA on January 1, 1994 and the creation of the WTO on January 1, 1995. The WTO (World Trade Organization) replaced GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) at that time. At this point the United States has entered into 17 free trade agreements and 3 others are waiting on congresses approval.

If the U.S continues this trend the only jobs that will be available in this country in the future will be in the service industry. Department stores, automotive chains, restaurants, construction, plumbers, electricians, physicians, nurses, police, fire, and similar. Everything else will be out sourced.

Good luck America, we are going to need it.

Steller 007

I wonder where Bush WAS after 911. How many months was it before he took action????? Oh now I remember where he was.....he was notifying his eastern oil buddies and helping to get them out of the country.

In the Boston Globe, March 11, 20004, Carl Unger, author of House of Bush, House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties, states that the 9/11 commission should ask who authorized the evacuation of 140 Saudi nationals on at least 8 aircraft making stops in 12 cities immediately following the attacks. "Many of the passengers were high-ranking members of the royal House of Saud. About 24 of them were members of the bin Laden family, which owned the Saudi Binladin Group, a multibillion-dollar construction conglomerate." Unger obtained passenger lists for 4 of the flights, which are posted on his website: www.houseofbush.com and includes the name of Prince Ahmed bin Salman.

Unger believes that this episode "raises particularly sensitive questions for the administration. Never before in history has a president of the United States had such a close relationship with another foreign power as President Bush and his father have had with the Saudi royal family, the House of Saud. I have traced more than $1.4 billion in investments and contracts that went from the House of Saud over the past 20 years to companies in which the Bushes and their allies have had prominent positions -- Harken Energy, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group among them. Is it possible that President Bush himself played a role in authorizing the evacuation of the Saudis after 9/11? What did he know and when did he know it?"

Taken in part from: The Bush-Saudi Connection by Michelle Mairesse

google it and see Bush kissing one of his oil buddies

In the days right after 9/11, all commercial flights in US air space including those for Congressmen and the FBI, the private jets of billionaires, and transportation for donated organs were shut down.

There was one exception...

The White House arranged for dozens of still unnamed Saudi Arabians living in the US - including members of the House of Saud and the Bin Laden family - to be flown out of the country in style.

The FBI didn't think it was necessary to get a passenger list...but if you show up at a peace rally, they'll be sure to get your face on video and add your name to their database if you're arrested at one.

The US news media didn't think this post 9/11 "mercy" flight for Bush's personal friends was worth investigating.

www.brasschecktv.com/...east/the-bush-familys-best-buddies

ewent - David...Good way of reinterpreting history.

FYI, I was INVOLVED with these directly since the 1980s. So it is NOT an interpretation of the History written by Non Participants based on information from other non participants. And you can believe that I wanted NO Part of these CFs (Cluster F**ks), one year our friends and allies, years later our hated enemies, next years our friends and allies. And it was not them that changed, it was the US Politicians.

ewent - And what exactly was so important about taking out Saddam Hussein that couldn't wait until bin Laden was taken out first?

US Congress and the US Laws with Appropriations that they passed. In my other Newsvine Posts, I mentioned the documented ulterior motives (who, what, were, why, when, how, etc.) that selfish US Congress had. Where do you think the idea to use the Iraqis Oil to pay for the Iraq War came from prior to 9/11 2001 (wasn't Bush). When I found out the facts prior to being sent to Kuwait, then First Gulf War, then 2002 Northern Iraq, etc., short of "Insubordination" I objected verbally adding to my stack of Official Letters of Reprimand. That is why pre 9/11 2001 I got a Letter of Reprimand from certain Politicians as "Conduct Unbecoming of a US Military Officer" when I stated, "You know nothing about _______fill in the blank_____, especially Iraq" when they told Bush no Oil Exploration of the ANWR and if you want Oil go to Iraq and get it as they reappropriated funds to US Law, 1998, H.R.4655*.

*We were also involved in the activities listed in H.R.4655. a. Hiring thousands of assassins and insurgents, training, organizing, arming them to overthrow President Hussein, and the later Operation Desert Fox as Target Damage Assessments (on the ground near Baghdad).

This is why PeAcE LoVeR-2838047 most of us HATE War. And because after killing people, it is us that has to convince their children (now adults) to help us, or be our friends after killing their parents many years before.

Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, 1.4 years and most of us will be "too old" to be involuntarily recalled to active duty again (and again, and again). Someone else's turn.

Steller, Peacelover and the rest of you right wingers talking about President Obama putting our children and grandchildren into debt I want you to know that I am so happy to see you care for future generations. Your compassion is noted.

NOW tell me where that compassion is when future generations have to deal with:

Air pollution

Water pollution

Lack of education

Possible contamination from imports from China

Loss of all natural resources

The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate.

And the list could go on and on. HYPOCRISY at it's finest.

erickorg , here is abrief history of SS for you , from its inception , it was designed as a program to keep working people from starving in retirement , not to be used as a form of retirement , in other words , people were suppose to also be saving themselves for their so called golden yrs . up until around 1967 , those funds paid into SS were in aprotected untouchable account within the government only to be used for payments of SS benefits , In 1967 , those funds were transfered into the general account by the then president , and approved by the congress at the time , and once in the general fund could be used ( with aproviso that the funds used , would be replaced with alike amount in bonds , usually us t bills or bonds ) , It is the sad fact that since that time every congress since and every president since has used those funds in this manner and has not , returned those funds to a status of where the money is set aside as it was origionally set up , all because if it remains in the general fund arena , it is usable . the main reason it was put into the general fund at the time was to assist in paying for the Vietnam war .

Something some may have missed during all the caterwailing over the debt limit increase and how it went down was the statement that if the debt ceiling wasnt raised , that those on SS as well as a few others such as SSD and veterans may not be getting their checks , well this caused me some pause to reflect , SS is now being paid by bonds maturing between those bonds and whatever interest they may be paying , if the government cant make good thse bonds and T bills , they are worthless as penny stocks on the market . Now this proposed plan , looks to further reduse the actual cash flow into the program , which is in essense , reduces the amount that will be getting paid out in the future , is any one really going to consider paying exactly half to the program , and getting the same benefit as if they were paying in the full amount? If anything , that appears to be a recipe to make the program fail in the future for sure , because the benefit amount paid out will have to be reduced because of the reduced income done today .

Stellar007

Quote ;
"Are you talking about the same Mission Accomplished banner that the Democrats borrowed and hung up over the Libya mission before Gaddafi was captured? To date Gaddafi is still at large. Or how about when it was claimed his kids were captured by the rebels, only to be campaigning in the streets of the same city (Tripoli) the rebels claimed to have sacked? At least Bush got his man before he hoisted the Mission Accomplished banner.

Kid, I think your parents need to go back to school and take some history lessons, but be sure they do so on their own dime, not using some tax payer funded subsidies."

Just for your info :

Mission Accomplished : May 1, 2003
Capture of Saddam Hussein : 13 December 2003

Can you tell me WHICH man did Bush get BEFORE the Mission Accomplished speech/banner ...

As for what you attribute to Obama, I did not see him in Libya, or on a aircraft carrier claiming this or that .. The " rebels " did ....

But, be assured that I agree that the USA/Nato had no business in that so-called civil revolution ...

Wrong!

This nation stands to SAVE $450 billion dollars if the Republicans and Tea Party stomp it out.

Obama knows another major correction is fast coming, he only made this pathetic speech so he could say "I tried" when the $hit hits the fan. What people need to realize is the proverbial $hit is going to hit the fan, weather this jobs bill gets passed or shut down.

I'd say save the $450 billion, kill the bill! Then Obama could still make the $450 billion in cuts so we would REALLY see some debt reduction! Do you think Obama will still find $450 billion in cuts if the bill gets shot down? I doubt it!

He is basically asking tax payers to contribute $450 billion to his re-election campaign so he can dole out all that money to special interest who will back him. Meanwhile normal people like you and I will get NOTHING but more hot air and campaign rhetoric.

Why are you so worried about the debt? You act like you and yourself only will have to pay it. If you're really that upset about the debt you shouldn't look at Obama to blame. You should look at GW Bush. Heck, Cheney was quoted, on record, saying "Deficits are meaningless. We don't care about the debt". What do have to say about that? Honestly?

If you are setting the bar for success based upon GW Bush - you do everyone an injustice. GW was ineffective - but so is Obama.

When anyone makes our mess a republican / democrat issue - you add to the issue - not help resolve it.

We as taxpayers need to demand from our government more responsibility, honesty and more accountability. When taxpayers argue party lines - nothing will change.

Obama has spent twice as much, twice as fast as Bush.

When Bush left office the credit card (national debt) had a bigger available balance than the amount borrowed. Now thanks to President Downgrade that credit card was not only MAXED OUT, but he got an CREDIT LIMIT INCREASE!

The nations credit limit was a little over 14.5 Trillion. Bush spent $5 trillion most of it trying to protect the nation from another 9-11-2001. Obama come along maxed it out and then applied for a limit increase! All this in 3 short years! Bush was in office for 8 years!

You Democrats need to go back to school and learn math.

Bush raised the Debt Ceiling 7 times. "Obama came along" to a country on the brink of destruction. Don't act like everything was roses when Obama became President. You act like all the same problems Bush had should just disapear because there's a new guy in office. Don't act like those problems weren't real and serious. The fact that there are serious problems STILL just shows how horrible GW Bush really was as president.

Misery Index:

President Barack H. Obama = 10.52 (Average), 12.73 (Today)

President George W. Bush = 8.11 (Average), 7.39 (End, 2008 after 8 years.).

The higher the number the worse they suck.

erickorg - "Obama came along" to a country on the brink of destruction.

And you hired Candidate Obama to do what? Yeah, that's right you voted for him because he "Sounded and Looked like a President".

michelle-1073610m

That's really funny and proves you know nothing about how Congress "works". The Freshmen Congressmen (and women) get Committees like, Congressional Janitorial Committee (decide who empties the trashcans at Congress). That is what the Tea Party is with Zero Influence.

Maybe after a few years when they contact the Lobbyists and Special Interest Group then the Tea Party will have some influence.

Michelle/erickorg: You miss the point that O'Bama continues to spend money that doesn't exist. You can't pay your bills using your Credit Cards to make payments. This country would have jobs if the poor excuse for a President O'Bama would stop spending money he doesn't have. You can't Tax yourself out of debt. Personally, I'm getting tired of paying for those Welfare Deadbeats who have been getting Fed. Handouts for generations and having more kids to increase their handouts. I'm getting tired of paying for the Illegals that invade the U.S. while we have a President who not only refuses to protect our Borders but also fails to protect LEGAL U.S. CITIZENS from the illegals. The majority of people that elected and continues to support this Presidential Failure are those that get those free handouts from the Feds. or those that (like O'Bama) thinks we actually have money to burn. This President doesn't know the meaning of Fiscal Responsibility and expects the non-existent Middle Class to pay everyone else's bill, but he has destroyed the Middle Class.

erickorg,

It was Obama's political posturing that the "sky is falling" that caused most of his problems. Things went from "I cant afford it right now" to "Not in this economy".

He shot himself in the foot, and only fools voted for him. You know the old saying, a fool and his money are soon parted. Too bad for me I am part of a democracy in which if enough fools make a bad choice Ill lose money too.

Better luck next time huh?

michelle...When you put all the pieces together, you see clearly how much the Supreme Court played a role in turning the tide of the November 2010 election. In 2003, in time for Bush's re-election, the SC was thrilled with passing McCain-Ferguson which limited campaign contributions. 7 years later in time for the 2010 election to help Republicans the SC banned it.

Smell a bit of foul play in that stinky mess?

961 days in office, Obama becomes sick and tired of someone dawdling about jobs.

The Republicans/TEA are arguing that tax cuts are actually government spending. Another historic first for this President of the United States ...

It is good that Republicans/TEA finally acknowledge that the Wonder Cuts enacted ten years ago have added to government spending for over a decade. Maybe now the Republicans/TEA can begin to address 'government spending' ...

The President specifically pointed out that Medicare and Medicaid needs reform. How controversial for the Republicans ...

No, Social Security was not included because that program is sound - for now. The OASDI Trust (IOUs to the lunatic fringe) is protected by the 14th amendment. Amazing how that Constitution stuff works, ain't it?

Why are the Congressional Republicans/TEA subdued in their response? Because the President said he 'can do things' without Congress. The President has said he 'will do' - let's see if the Republicans/TEA 'can do' ...

This is what Republicans voted for-

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/05/ryans-budget-spin/

Hey ewent,

McCain-Feingold wasn't passed by the USSC. They don't pass laws, they measure them against the constitution to insure you remain free. What is this fascination with limiting your freedom to involve yourself politically by supporting McCain-Feingold? There has to be some draw, some benefit, that you find in being less free. Is it that if everyone is less free together so that we are more equal then you think we are better?

If so, and I hope not, then we will always find ways to become serfs to the state. We go from free people to good-intentioned citizens to equality-minded serfs to oppressed peasants. I have an alternative idea--how about people like you quit trying to make human institutions perfect at the cost of liberty and just accept the fact that sometimes things won't go your way, that you will lose. Is that really so hard?

Hi Michelle,

Let's pretend for a minute that republicans in Congress believed that jobs can be created by DC...wouldn't they want to create those jobs so that they could remain in office too? Obama is an epic failure, but not because republicans refuse to waste as much money as Obama wants--he's a failure because despite every indication that everything he's so far done is making things worse he is convinced he's on the right track.

"Once the economy is back on track we can argue who is going to pay for it."

Really, Janet? I think I will go out and buy a brand new Corvette (*drool*), take out a loan for it, and while I'm at it put an addition on the house with another loan. I'll figure out how to pay for it later.

Think about what you are saying!!! Washington has had this mindset for far to long. IT HAS GOT TO STOP!!

Janet Anderson,

John-3638231 - Then he attends a union thug gathering and listens to the Union mafia boss Hoffa,

100 % correct.

Lions, tigers, bears, oh my!

Teachers Unions, Construction Unions, Poor, Oh My !

Pass it you Repugnants then we will know what's in it ! (Bogus Health Care Reform Act again).

Background History

Henry Ford pays his workers a "Fair and Living Wage" so that they can afford the Automobiles manufactured by Ford. Regardless of the US Labor Unions. The US Labor Unions claim they did this.

The 1929 to 1939 Great Depression wipes out the US Labor Unions of the Henry Ford Era.

"Italian Organized Crime" takes over the US Labor Unions as a "Legit Business with Political Clout".

After the "New Deals to the American People" fail miserably to get the US out of the Great Depression, President FDR: Nationalizes all US Industry, Suspends all US Labor Union Activities, and starts selling "War Materials" to England 1939 to 1941, before US entry into World War II. This gets the US out of the 1929 to 1939 Great Depression (as to why the Official Year the US got out of the Great Depression is 1939. World War II is the final push that got the US completely out of the Great Depression, and acts as a recovery for the US.

To maximize the Health of the Workers and increase their available money to spend, President FDR institutes Universal Health Care for All US Citizens, by getting the US Insurance Corporations out to the Medical Profession. As the US Insurance Corporations were also taken over by "Italian Organized Crime" as a "Legit Business with Political Clout" (previously Organized Crime Arsonist Tommy the Torch selling "Business Insurance", "Home Owner's Insurance").

During World War II to minimize Catastrophic Accidents at US Ammunition Plants and Factories, the US War Department conducts a Study. Since President FDR Nationalized US Industry, he implements the US War Department recommendations Nationwide: Work Place Safety (Fire Extinguishers, Length of Women's Hair, Safety Boards, Eye Protection, Hearing Protection, Hand Protection, Protective Clothing, etc.), Child Labor Laws (excluding Family Farms), Maximum Hours of Work, Minimum hours of sleep, Skills for Pay (Minimum Wage), etc.. The things that the US Labor Unions claimed they did, but could not since their US Labor Union Activities were suspended at the time.

President FDR suspected that the US Labor Unions were sympathetic to Mussolini (Black Shirts, the Black Shirts being organized like the National Socialist German Workers Party (NAZI, a Political Labor Union) and the Brown Shirts). During the Liberations of Sicily and Italy, this was proven as the US Labor Unions Striked to stop or slow down the US Military. The US Labor Unions then turned Violent. President FDR by Executive Order has the US Military Police (not National Guard) stop the US Labor Union Violence by any means; the US Military Police machinegun the Violent US Labor Union Strikers.

After World War II the majority of US Citizens, especially those that worked in President FDR's Nationalized US Industry, ignore the Propaganda claims of the US Labor Unions.

Years later the US Citizens forgot what happened, and the US Labor Unions start to take over, since they are a "Legit Business with Political Clout" (Bribing and coercing the US Politicians, as Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups).

The US Labor Unions gain control, just like the National Social German Workers Party, a Political Labor Union, usually by violent means as "Union Tactics", with extortion (no Union Membership, no Job; just like no NAZI Membership, no Job).

This can be seen in books and movies "On the Waterfront", "Last Exit to Brooklyn", "F.I.S.T.", "Jimmy Hoffa", etc..

On the Waterfront (1954)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047296/
Last Exit to Brooklyn (1989)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097714/
F.I.S.T.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077531/
Hoffa (1992)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104427/
And yes I have pages of Book (History not novels) references also. The most important is the WWII US War Department Study to prevent Catastrophic Accidents at US Ammunition Plants and Factories.

So with all of that said, How smart was it for the US Government to let the US Labor Unions into the US Government as the US Government (State and Federal) Employees Union, etc.. And how smart are the Teachers that are teaching the children for letting the US Labor Unions into their Profession. You think that they would have more money to spend if they did not pay US Labor Union Dues.

Who in their right mind would buy a bag of apples if some of them were rotten and moldy, just to get a couple of good ones, and no you cannot throw out any of the rotten and moldy apples you have to eat them raw without washing them. You also cannot store the rotten moldy ones separately from the good ones to prevent the good ones from becoming rotten and moldy (infected).

Almost forgot reference (some reason, somebody does not want US Citizens to see this, so I had to use a Russian Link (in English). The other US Links were down "Unavailable"):

Requiem For Detroit. BBC Documentary, 2010. 76 minutes.

http://documentaryheaven.com/requiem-for-detroit/

watch the link above you might learn something about US Labor Union City of Detroit, President Obama's Future America.

How smart is it for the US Labor Unions to Strike (1937) during the Great Depression demanding a "Fair and Living Wage", then squating at private property to prevent everyone from working, including beating up "Scabs", so that Ford could not make money to pay them a "Fair and Living Wage". Like I said before the ONLY thing that stopped this US Labor Union nonsense was President FDR's suspension of US Labor Union Activities, and then World War II.

An example of this for yourself would be if a bunch of people came into your house (private property), tied you and everyone up, squat, and demand food after eating everything in your house, and will not untie you nor your family to go get the food. And when they do not get the food that they demand they start beating your family to death, with you last.

Janet Anderson - However, the TPubs, who are mostly elderly and getting theirs really don't give a rats a## about the rest of us or the country.

Typical Demoncrap warped logic. Social Security is a US Citizen Contributory Fund, that has been raped by the likes of you, that believes that Social Security is an Entitlement like Pubic Assistance, WIC, Food Stamps, Public Housing, etc.. Same with Medicare.

Libya ("Illegal", "Unfunded", "War Criminal" Obama War).

At least President Clinton had US Law H.R.4655 with Congressional Appropriations to cover his arse, and President Bush had US Congress's Declaration of War at Iraq with US Law, 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations.

WHAT DOES President Obama have for Libya, anything passed after the First US Military Actions are proof of Violation of US Law, 1973 War Powers Resolution, as a criminal impeachment (removal from office).

The Upcoming President Obama Reduction In Forces of the US Military of 27,000 US Military Personnel will result in the 27,000 being thrown on Unemployment. The xxx,xxx US Civilians that provide support to the 27,000 US Military will also be thrown on Unemployment.

These 27,000 US Military personnel cannot be used to secure the US Borders as against President Obama's Policy.

April 2009, August 2009, President Obama, "US Military will not be used to secure the US Borders".

President Obama 8====>oJanet Anderson

Does your arse hurt yet = $1.7 Trillion USDs (Health Care Reform Act) + $450 Billion USDs (Stimulus) + $800 Billion USDs (President Obama's Jobs Bill) + ? (Libya US Military +CIA) + ? (UN Mission Nation Building Libya).

"They hate me and I welcome their hatred"!

Just another union hater that has no clue about what she speaks,funny all you right wing nut cases are no better than the left wingers and we will never be able to do anything if you stay this way. give and take , this bill is more than any Republican has come up with now it's their turn to stop bitching and stand up to the plate PLAY BALL, the American people are watching you lets see if they get a hit or strike out.

They hate the Unions because they lobby for the American worker, but they never complain about the Corporate Lobbyists or the Religious Lobbyists or the Foreign country Lobbyist. It's always the Unions that ruin America I guess.

Just a Joe-4031060, erickorg,

Disprove what is posted at #5.2.

Typical uninformed Demoncraps.

It wasn't a democrat that wrote it david

Janet Anderson...I so agree with everything in your post. Most Americans with any education know that to do nothing at this point in time makes our government ripe for takeover. That's the first real danger. The second is government confiscation of things you as an American pay for.

Everything the President said last night was on the mark. But to the loonies in red states with so little education, it bounces right off their jello brains and slides into the same pit of gloom and doom.

You know as well as I do that doing nothing further exacerbates the mood of the people of this country. Here we have, in President Obama, a mover and shaker who wants his country to do nothing more than be the best it can be.

And what is the right wing response to that? Bad Obama. Bad Policies. Bad This. Bad That. You have to wonder what their parents did to them to be this hateful of the President of the United States.

Can they really be so utterly stupid? I never like to think fellow Americans are ignorant louts with so much stupidity. But, the more I read the posts of those bashing a president who is trying to help this country out of a mess he didn't create, I can only wonder how they have become so stupid and so ignorant.

erickorg...I wonder do they hate the steelworkers who worked at Ground Zero too? It was their union leaders who organized them and their work from the first hours the Towers were hit.

This is what Republicans voted for-

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/05/ryans-budget-spin/

Hi Janet,

None of that makes sense. Most TEA Partiers are not old. And old people, even if your rant made any sense, don't want their kids and grandkids to have worse lives. Even liberals, like you, who I almost completely disagree with on policy, want those things you support to make things better. Your mindset is a large part of our problem and what you wrote does nothing to improve our nation.

If Hoffa wants to support pro-growth policies then he has an ally in me, and in every republican I know. But do you know who won't be on his side, at least for the time being? The very president Hoffa says he is a foot soldier for. Give me ANYTHING you can think of, supported by Obama, which is pro-growth and doesn't rely upon taking money from some other use to make it happen.

When liberals take money you'd spend in other ways, and spends it for you to "create jobs", they never account for the lost jobs that the money you were unable to spend caused. It's brilliant rhetoric. Why? Because you've bought into it.

"HALF-TERM" Gov.

Why don't you move to Wasilla so you can soak up the stench Sarah left behind.

Oh, please. Not you again.

I have to laugh everytime you haters bring up the "half-term" thing because it just proves my point. You don't even know the real reason she left. She was spending so much tax money defending herself against all the false charges being brought against her that she could no longer justify the waste of money. She was looking out for the best interests of the taxpayers, something you liberals have no concept of. And certainly nothing Washington knows anything about.

Of course you wouldn't bother checking her motives, just keep believing the liberal media lies and hating her for no justifiable reason.

you're REALLY that stupid?.....Sara Palin is an IDIOT....period....why on EARTH do so many people WANT an IDIOT in charge of the country....Gee Dubya was a simple minded silly SOB, and ran the country and the economy into the ground, thanks to the Fascist corporate hands up his back making his mouth move for eight years, and Sara Palin makes HIM look like Steven Hawking....if any one of her three brain cells were to accidentally collide with another, they'd both die of surprise....and you want HER in charge......

Old Papi is awesome! Lay it down old man! Of course, to me personally, you're just preaching to the choir. It's still nice to hear how it really is.

Old Papi- Gee Dubya was a simple minded silly SOB, and ran the country and the economy into the ground, thanks to the Fascist corporate hands up his back making his mouth move for eight years,

Nope.

The arse hats that removed the US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression, and 1929-1939 Depression.

And it is clearly obvious that you have no idea who "Mr.Corporate America" is. That has his hand so far up your arse you can count his fingers. You too erickorg as well as those that voted for your uninformed non factual knee jerk emotive opinions.

.why on EARTH do so many people WANT an IDIOT in charge of the country.

That's what intelligent people have been asking since November 2008. We will fix that in about a year.

Mr. Steady...Okay...Then elect Venture Capitalist Romney and see how fast your country is up for grabs to the highest bidder. Or, you can elect Pretty Boy Perry who'll swagger and sidle up to Big Oil and make sure his and only his state gets the lion's share of government aid just like Bush did.

Then too, you have Huntsman, another Texas good ole boi. Like GWB, his Big Oil Big Daddy paid for his way in life. Just what we need. Another Daddy's Boi in the White House.

Course now, there's always Mad Woman Michelle Bachmann and we already know she's planning to prostitute herself to Big Oil to get them to reduce gasoline prices to $2 a gallon...Because that IS what it will take to talk those Good ole oil bois into that kind of reduction.

Or, maybe that Republican in Libertarian clothing, Ron Paul, is more qualified. After all, his Libertarian party only has about a dozen splinter groups that reek of big money who also call themselves anti-tax, anti-government Libertarians when they aren't sucking up to rich ass Republicans that is.

Yep, the Republican field is wide open. And not a single one of them gives a fat rat's ass about the American people as much as they do sitting on their thrones with a Republican regime pulling all the strings.

How can you even think that when all we hear from the T/Repub is give more welfare to the wealthy and Corporations. That has been going on for 10 years and still no more jobs. McConnell quoted Enstien, referencing what Obama is trying to do. " the height of stupidity is to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting the different results". Doesn't that apply to their theory relating to giving more tax cuts to their wealthy cronies and corporate backers. So hypocritical but typical.

I like the way they did it. Give the statement and then address it based on facts. It would be nice if we could get more data in that fashion.

The MSNBS propaganda team has been so busy attempting to spin the same old fear-mongering and money-demanding into something "new" sounding that they let this one slip past. Don't worry, once they realize that this article became way too popular for being realistic it will be pulled to make room for the fluff and rhetoric pieces.

Frank...It was of immense pleasure for me to watch the Republicans last night sitting with tails between their legs. All polls show that Republicans ratings are far lower than this President's. And some of these are the most comprehensive polls reporting.

It was pathetic to see the GOP response to the President's speech. It was GOP-predictable. Now they are calling it a "stimulus". Well so what? If this country needs anything today, it needs a stimulus...anything to get it moving again.

But this isn't what the GOP wants and they know why. They just want this president out because he represents a far greater danger of loss of their biggest campaign donors with deep pockets. That's the only thing the GOP ever cares about...Money, how to get it from rich asses and how to keep it flowing to them.

When will the confederate president Grover Norquist tell his brown nosers to relax and do what's right for the country.

John:

I laughed at the comment (both parts) that were funny.

First, the C.S.A. comment and second that you think the speech last evening outlined what's right for the country.

If the president had led with where he was cutting $900B from (pay for these new programs AND reduce waste, corruption, and trim non-essential services) and then proposed a jobs creation program, this might have been a truly significant night.

Instead, it will be the same old stuff from both sides....'

John- Are you aware that your "confederate president Grover Norquist" was born in PA, raised in MA, graduated from Harvard, and heads up an organization based in DC? Perhaps you need to develop a new slur.

If Norquist wasn't dividing the country with his asinine pledge (& the morons who robotically follow it), the CSA reference wouldn't be so apt. What do where he was born, educated and work have to do with the fact that his pledge & it's adherence are dividing this country. Much is made about the Dem-controlled Congress' inability to pass legislation - isn't that a sign of independent representation of their respective constituents, rather than blind adherence to a pledge designed to raise them $$$$ if they toe his line? CSA Pres Norquist fits in light of his singular divisiveness. One man/policy (who has NEVER been elected) controls half our legislative body; his supporters blind adherence (never mind THEIR constituents) is threatening to split this country like it hasn't since the Civil war & you are trying the "fact check" defense of this slug?? Perhaps the TEA supporters would be seen as more sincere had they not blindly hitched their collective wagon to this "pledge" and represented their people...

Jesus H Christ it was a joke, like the Norquist pledge is a joke, only not the funny kind.

http://flipflopbarack.com/daily_pages/files_091221/flipflop_091221.jpg

To many on welfare that could work. If half the country pays no tax at all, well, you figure it out. Fair share means steal from the workers to give to the lazy who will not work and never have.

Let's breakdown all the bull@!$%# in this statement, you're not getting away with it on my watch. You righties like to use that phrase half the people pay no taxes at all Fact check BULL@!$%# about 40% pay no FEDERAL INCOME TAX everyone pays some tax even a 10 year old using his/her allowance to buy something pays taxes. Are you calling the people who have been unemployed for over a year welfare recipients? Concerning the Bush tax cuts a person making $500,000 vs a person making $50,000 a year disproportionately takes way more money out of the economy basically 10 dollars for me 1 dollar for you.

Mr. speaker where are the @!$%#ing jobs, Mr. speaker where is a republican jobs plan that doesn't include more breaks for the wealthy. This country is loaded with non-thinkers and you sir are one of them.

"I hire lots of people. I can't hire more if there is no work for them. Why is that so hard to understand."

The lefties and righties aren't buying such lies coming from a person whom sits on their computer all day and posts on this and other sites. You probably live off welfare and expect us to buy that you hire lots of people? - ROFLMAO

I really want to lose my mind and use just a choice word for every regular expression. It is income tax we are talking about here! Let us be simple here for the simple-minds. If the economy has 100,000 people and the total income earned is 1,000,000, then we expect income to be paid on 1,000,000 right? If 98,000 people are not able to work or the total income they earn combined is 100,000, then they will pay income tax on 100,000. It means that 2,000 people will pay income tax on 900,000. If only 2,000 people earned 1,000,000 then 98000 will not pay income tax, only 2000 will. You &***ing eediat! And you say you hire people. It means you are just repeating lies like the rest of the GOP, because you must understand what is income tax. Or maybe that is too much to expect of you.

Well, I'm an independent voter...I can vote either way(s)...and I voted for Obama, and I agree with you. I still support him because the other guys sound like bumbling idiots. Mr. O's proposal is a stimulus bill....I don't like that the payroll taxes continue to be cut because that adds to the deficit (as though we're ever going to get to -0- - NOT!). I'm not happy with an extension of unemployment benefits, after a year I think that's enough. It becomes welfare after a year's extension. I believe the unemployed should be given funds to go back to school or retrain in another industry.

I do believe we can close tax loopholes for all, including mortgage credits. Why? are we still giving mortgage tax credits?

I don't like "big" numbers, because it never happens. The President went "big" because the progressives & Dems wanted him to go big.

It won't work, he knows it. He has a "super committee" -- what are they doing? I'm not putting blame on him, but they all look like a bunch of bumbling idiots....like the blind walking in the dark. Nobody knows nothing.

Finally, the speech last night was a) unnecessary and b) a campaign speech. I blame Bill Daley his advisor who is stinking up the campaign with his loose cannon ill-advised strategy for the President.

But -- the other guys scare me, so I'll probably vote for Mr. O.

John

Twice in one morning. You and I are downright conversational today.

Actually, the figure is closer to 48% pay no federal income tax. In fact, quite a few of these non-payers get subsidized by through the Earned Income Tax Credit (typically named by politicians). Sales taxes are a red herring since most are paid to the states, excepting the gasoline tax which is a mixture.

Now, I think we ought to add another marginal rate for folks making over $1M, but it should be aimed at those making over $1M on capital gains money (that's where Mr. Buffett get's his lower marginal tax rate). Reduce and then eliminate loopholes and then the marginal tax rates overall to reduce the burden that was previously paid by others to cover the tax loopholes.

But since we're living in the real world....Across the board spending freezes. 180 day review of all programs reported up the chain and then "Base Closure Commission" style (which gives Congress cover - It's the only way they'll ever do this), detail the cuts and then vote for the cuts (up or down - simple majority). It's painful, but permanent and very effective (just look at the results of the 2 base closure rounds, they speak for themselves).

Finally, everyone needs to pay something. I don't care if you're rich or poor, you need to be part of the solution, or we'll pass along a terrible situation for our children. The effective tax rate needs simplification (order of magnitude) and then adjustment so all pay what is reasonable to support the primary functions of government (interstate and international commerce, national defense, and infrastructure). A bunch of the stuff our government does it shouldn't be involved in (education beyond setting standards for the states to meet K-12 and making sure higher education is available since this is where we are really falling behind against our international competition).

Finally, I think there should be a balanced budget amendment and the offset would be Presidential line item veto. Many states live this way fiscally and are just fine (in fact better) than the federal government.

My one vote for a Constitutional Amendment is for Congressional Term Limits which should be (IMHO) 6 terms for the House, 2 terms for the Senate. If they can't get another job after 24 years, they probably shouldn't be in there in the first place.

Again, in my opinion, the President is such a superb communicator and he should use that to communicate broad and difficult tasks such as tax reform, infrastructure plans (not always federal money because that's where he gets bogged down - make it impossible for Congress to ignore their jobs). Can you imagine a Kennedy style speech around infrastructure for energy independence (pick your poison NG or 85% Ethanol to run 80% of vehicles by 2022, or reconstructing our once world class highways coupled with high-speed rail to the top 50 geographic markets, or college for all that want to attend through tax credits up to the national average cost for a 4 year public college. He just needs to set the goals that will, by their attainment make us a competitive workplace again - and argue it from the historical viewpoint that it worked before (Eisenhower = Interstates = explosion in manufacturing and commerce, Congress after WWII = GI Bill = explosion in scientists, business majors, and engineers = multi-decade economic expansion through innovation and hard work, etc.).

But what we get is spend this, and we'll pay for it later (when people can't or won't make those hard decisions).

Wrong!

You are postulating all the terms he (Obama didn't) and trying to make a case.

When are you people going to actually listen without preparing an argument and actually try to understand ?

Conservatives are too into holding on to what was and fearful of trying something new.

John - you state

"the Bush tax cuts a person making $500,000 vs a person making $50,000 a year disproportionately takes way more money out of the economy basically 10 dollars for me 1 dollar for you."

You fundamentally don't get it. Reducing someone's taxes and letting them keep the money doesn't take money OUT of the economy. It keeps money IN the private sector where it can be spent efficiently by responsible people. WE are the economy, not the Govt.

Rusty, maybe it's time for the "House Majority" to formulate a jobs program. Actually, it is CONGRESS' JOB to legislate such, NOT the White House.

You may not like what this administration is proposing, yet what is the alternative? Still waiting for the obstructionists on the right side of the aisle to do their job, instead of worrying how to get the President to lose his!

You fundamentally don't get it. Reducing someone's taxes and letting them keep the money doesn't take money OUT of the economy. It keeps money IN the private sector where it can be spent efficiently by responsible people. WE are the economy, not the Govt.

Seems like YOU fundamentally don't get it... Keeping the $$ in the private sector - KEEPS it in the private sector! The issue is that the "job creators" have been given every break necessary to do just that - create jobs! Instead, we have banks buying each other, businesses are still leaving this country at a record rate & the "job creators" are sitting on their wealth, NOT CREATING JOBS! That "class" has been given a pass - what's wrong with giving the middle a break?

What you don't get is the middle class will spend their dollar, meanwhile the rich guy will sit on his 10 dollars. That basically amounts to transfer of wealth.

Do you get it now!

John, you are wasting your breath on the libs. They will never get it. They are so filled with hatred and jealousy of the rich they can't think logically. Of course, you are right.

Employers pay less money to employees today than they did 30 years ago (appriciation taken into consideration). That is why so many don't pay fed income tax. Everybody pays tax in America, your "if 50% doesn't pay tax" is misleading. One thing happening as the super rich pay less in Fed tax is that the Fed gives less to the states and this results in all states raising their taxes including sales tax, property tax and creating new taxes that hits the poor unfairly so they can balance their budgets. Even you must agree that if Warren Buffet pays tax at a lower rate than his employees that the Bush II tax breaks for the super rich is unfair. Obama never said he would support removing tax breaks for the middle class or his term 250K or less. Think about that, you are only taxed additionally on money over 250K and that money has to be outside all deductions (taxable income). In reality you could make 350K each year and still not get a tax increase. We have to stop borrowing money to support the super rich tax breaks.

Corporations have no plans to hire in a down economy. Corps. only plan is to satisfy wall street to profit better then the year before with less workers doing 3 times the amount of work with no mercy. Another words treated like sh-t. Forget about family, you are called upon to work extra hours at anytime without sleep. Gap between corp profits, workers pay has been widening last 20 years, so here comes personal debt taking money out of consumers hands. For those of you that have memory problems, Our President’s bailout was a work in progress by the one and only G Bush. who thought he had a blank check for anything he chose. Handed to our President when he took office.

Recent jobs bill includes millionaires paying their fare share of taxes and hopefully SS.

This would solve some revenue problems for USA and would not be a burden to those with more money then they know what to do with.

Yes , clean energy manufacturing will create jobs, but does not address trade gap or jobs in the long term

Bring our manufacturing base back with made in USA goods.

Made in China goods lack quality and recent price increases for those goods has risen.

Our President has shown true leadership throughout the world.

It does not matter what our president puts forward, Republicans will still try to derail him right or wrong. What is more disgusting is that sour look on Bonehead’s face sitting behind President during speech. The party of do nothing will be nothing if they don’t get out of corps. a-s and start working for the people.

The left is acting like obstructing a President's agenda is a new thing conservatives invented since January, 2009.

When it was a patriotic duty of the Democratic Party to oppose George Bush to keep him from getting re-elected in 2004 and nearly everything after that, was it obstructionist...NOPE!

It was what they needed to do to make sure the successor running in 2008 had no chance of getting elected.

What hypocritical clap-trap. Both party's have become the party of "The opposite of whatever the other guy wants to do."

Until we have term limits for Congress, there will be no end on this because the status quo is what they want. Stop blaming self-interested, lifetime appointment (virtually), party you don't support for acting the same way your party ALWAYS does themselves.

This is about our President jobs bill. It was not a Presidential debate.

• First, it provides a tax cut for small businesses, not big corporations, to help them hire and expand now and provides an additional tax cut to any business that increases wages.
• Second, it puts people back to work, including teachers, first responders and veterans coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan, and construction workers repairing crumbling bridges, roads and more than 35,000 public schools, with projects chosen by need and impact, not earmarks and politics.
• Third, it helps out-of-work Americans by extending unemployment benefits to help them support their families while looking for work and reforming the system with training programs that build real skills, connect to real jobs and help the long-term unemployed.
• Fourth, it puts more money in the pockets of working and middle class Americans by cutting in half the payroll tax that comes out of every worker's paycheck, saving families an average of $1,500 a year. And it removes the barriers that exist in the current federal refinancing program (HARP) to help more Americans refinance their mortgages at historically low rates, save money and stay in their homes.

@ strmz

and at what cost....where is this 450B coming from? the money that we will supposedly save from the super committee? that is some shame accounting in the first place.

cut regulations, will do more than the 450B to jump start the economy.

Yea, just what we need. Cut regulations. That's what got this country in trouble in the first place. It's this kind of Kornball thinking that just amazes me. Get back on the turnip truck.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I will try anyway. How 'bout: There aren't enough details to actually Fact Check, yet. Let's save save the fact checking for when we know all the facts.

Look, it took 2 authors to come-up with this hypothetical fact checking article.

That is exactly what I was thinking while reading the article. While it states that the proposition that the bill will be paid for is "iffy," that is different than stating that it won't be paid for.

As you stated, wait for the details before analyzing the plan.

Iffy? What are the Vegas odds that Congress will pass enough reductions to pay for this? That future Congress sessions won't override the reductions? That the reductions won't be years out and the spending now, resulting in (as this article implies) bigger deficits?

If you all are betting that, upon closer review, this plan will really be deficit neutral I want to bet with you on a lot of things. I could retire - except you would probably want to pay me with out-year dollars.

Rocketdan: Did you even read my post? I stated that I will wait and read the details of the plan before fact checking. I did not state that I'm betting, that it will be deficit neutral; I stated that I will wait for details before passing judgment.

You are ready to paint me as a big-spending liberal, spending "out-year dollars," because I stated that I wanted the details before judging. Now, I won't rush to judgment regarding the motivation behind your rush to judgment. I will assume that you got caught up in the discussion and didn't think before you posted.

This is what Republicans voted for-

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/05/ryans-budget-spin/

Of course there are few to no facts in this speech...it's a freaking campaign speech for god's sake . who expects facts in a campaign speech

Let's cut taxes on the rich and run up the deficit that way.

Blame his campaign advisor, Bill Daley who doesn't know what he's doing. That speech was unnecessary. It was a repeat of what he's said before, only "bigger."

End the Bush tax cuts, end mortgage interest deductions for mortgages over $400,000.00, and on the second home, end big farm, big oil, and ethanol subsidies, end the non taxation of US owned off shore subsidiaries, and only grant them a deduction for taxes paid to the off shore Nation, Totally revise the US corporate tax code to end 0 taxes for GE and the like, Consider the insanity of the multi million dollar incomes of the super rich, and tax them as it was done in the 60s,
Millions of dollars fo statement weddings, is insanity, when children are starving in the US, in other words, go back to a true graduated income tax, and put the proceeds to work creating jobs, just as was done after the Great Depression.

The GOP cannot cut taxes, and cut spending, and resolve our problems. If Corporate America will not hire, even though it has 4.4 Trillion dollars in the banks on and off shore, and they want more tax deductions to "create jobs".

All the GOP will accomplish is to further accelerate the recession, which, considering the current mentality of the GOP, which is to insure Obama fails, regardless of the cost to the Nation, may be just what they want. After all, look at the Deficit debacle. Pure insanity.

ATC333: "tax them as it was done in the 60s."

Oh, don't do that. Back then, the loopholes were so big, no one paid taxes at the highest rates. That was before the AMT and Reagan's 1986 tax act that closed so many of those loopholes (look it up, if you don't believe me). If you look at effective taxes paid, as opposed to the rates, you'll see that the wealthy are paying the most in taxes that they ever have.

And of course, because they are outnumbered, the voters who pay nothing in federal income taxes will be sure to keep it that way, because, after all, the rich should be paying "their fair share."

So let's tax the rich back to the dark ages. And once we're done with them, who's next?? I'm thinking you're a good candidate. I think you have more than I do, and that's just not fair!

Do the republicans have ANY solutions or do they just hope to see this president fade as our country sinks.

That's right John - keep this a democrat / republican issue. People with your mentality keep our ineffective government intact.

The president's job is to lead the country and the current president is failing. He lacks the skills of negotiation and any type of business sense. Not only can't he lead - he doesn't even know where to lead to.

I voted for him - which I regret. He is not who we need - whether he's democrat or republican.

#14.2, the problem is -- who is going to step into his place? The other side has a bunch of bozos running.

Sally

Why aren't the United States citizens demanding better choices????!!!!!

We get what we accept... we have allowed this governement to degrade to this.

We don't vote for "Who will do a great job" - we vote for the lesser of 2 evils and the state our country is in shows it.

The only thing that spurs politicians is elections - because they know voters don't pay attention until then.

Hate to bring up history, but does anyone recall what was happening to our economy 3 short years ago, and that was just the beginning.

Lehman, Merril Lynch, Bear Stearns , AIG, Fanni and Freddie 401ks cut in half and the list goes on.

it would be great if we could see where we would be now with the reps in charge.........

SUPER DEPRESSION

It is true we should never have bailed out any of the corporations for any reason. In a capitalist society when one company fails another picks it up or parts of it so they can benefit from its failure. Until September 15th when we started the bail outs with AIG the only real problems we were having were with Fannie MAE and Freddie MAC, not that George W. didn't not try to warn congress about it in 2004 but was shot down by the black congressional caucas.

As far as it being worse with a republican in charge, there was a RINO (Republican in name only) running against Obama and not a consevative. Had a conservative been running we would not be in this mess right now with a president whose only answer to every problem is to throw more money at it.

As opposed to the Republican mantra, throw money at the rich so it trickles down to the masses, been down that road to nowhere too many times before.

what do you mean "throw the money to the rich"? It is THEIR money. the only way the government gets this money is by taking it away from those who earn it. When they take too much from people with more money than you and they leave this country in digust the gov. will say that now YOU are the rich one and start taking more of your money to make up for the deficet. how long will you accept confiscatory tax rates before you also leave the country in digust

thing is THEIR did not earn it, they just take it !!!!!!!

parden me, how do they"just take it"? Please reply to this. I have been beaten and robbed by people in the past and they certaainly did not look rich. Please explain with some clairity and detail how they "just take it".

the repugs aren't going to solve any problem...they never do, only thing their interested in is doing away with government.... that would be the government of the GREATEST country on earth.....

And replace him with who? Nobody in Congress who has a voice understands how big and complex the state of the economy is. They can only see it from their own perspectives. Unfortunately, that's mostly rich white men.

Let's face it: This country has reached a level of population and diversity that no Congress it sees will be thought of as effective. What does Obama have to gain by "lying" to the American people? If his ideas suck, the country will continue to go to hell (except for rich people who don't have any idea how the rest of us live) and he won't be president again. Then it will be the Republicans' chance to f*&k up the economy. Liberals (like me) will yell and complain about how awful a job they are doing, but do we have any better ideas? Are we less combative and negative than those in Congress? I think not. This is the most obvious downward spiral if I've ever seen one. And if those against Obama's plan to actually DO something, even if stupid, is still not as good as doing NOTHING, then we are ALL SCREWED. And I'm guessing that those of you who would rather do nothing are people who are wealthy enough that you think you can just "ride it out." And don't give me that BS about how "you worked hard and earned it, so everyone else who is suffering doesn't need help because that's how you thin the herd."

Tim - "Nobody in Congress who has a voice understands how big and complex the state of the economy is. They can only see it from their own perspectives. Unfortunately, that's mostly rich white men."

So it's "unfortunate" that the people in congress who need to understand the nations economy are the same type of people as the people who founded the nation?

It's also "unfortunate" that most of the people in the rap industry are rich black men isn't it? I mean how could the same people who built it possibly understand it?

Congratulations on being an ignorant racist.

I see. So it's okay to say that our nation's founders were "iffy" on the idea of slavery. Our founders could not hack it in today's world. And for those people who are die-hard constitutionalists, if you can't accept change, you will be miserable for the rest of your life.

Here's my impression of Thomas Jefferson: "Yeah, uh, so...I'm not so keen on this whole slavery thing. It's kind of hypocritical to what we're writing." John Hancock: "So, are you getting rid of your slaves?" Thomas Jefferson: "Oh, god no. I couldn't do that. There's just so much plantation work to do. I'll put it off until we finish this document."

allow everyone else to tell you how to run it

what ? union representatives don't make anything near what corp management makes and they sure can't tell a business how to run it, are you nuts. don't think you know anything about unions.........

unions agree to big cuts every time there is a bankruptcy !!!

if you want to work for minimum wage, then by all means do it !! but, to blame unions for what is going on now is just plain STUPID

http://sanctification.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/obama.jpg?w=700&h=437

I did not feel or see any of the benefits of the last $800 billion dollar stimulus

Could I have the $800 dollars cash you likely benefited from the $800 billion stimulus over the last 2 years

I never got any check for $800!? Where the heck are you coming up with your numbers?

Like most Americans I did not benefit from the cash for clunkers program either, I am still driving the same PAID OFF vehicle as I was back then when the program was going. Meanwhile used car prices have skyrocketed to near "New" car prices. This is because our idiot in command simply had all the used cars traded in destroyed by pouring liquid sand in the engines, then forced the junk yards to crush the cars so all the metal could be recycled and sold to China. I know a lot of people that could have stimulated our economy if they were given one of them clunkers, rather than just totally destroying them.

Also my kids don't go to school in the city, so they have to pay for their lunches every day, unlike the inner-city kids who all get a free lunch.

My business didn't get a million dollar USDA relief act loan either. Pretty much because most of the ones that did were shill companies that didn't bother actually registering the name until AFTER the loan was approved.

I also didn't get any free Obama money in Detroit when they were giving it out, if only because I did not want to be the only white guy there.

So please... Tell me where this $800 come from or just be quiet. You sound just as ignorant as Obama did last night!

#17.3, it was a campaign speech. He could have given that speech anywhere, in front of the Lions Club, or at a news conference. I'm not impressed, and I'm a supporter.

You had to take the Make work pay deduction to keep the $400 dollars extra you earned through less being deducted from your paycheck.

If you didn't take the deduction you screwed yourself out of $400 from each of the last 2 tax years total $800 that was 1/3 of the stimulus.

"doing again what 850 billion dollars could not do last time"

It's only smaller this time because B.O. figures $450 billion will provide enough "smoke" to mask the true state of the economy until next November.

Dawn-2890455 - Put in a Republican and his/her ideas will be no better

Ask Senator Harry Reid about the three Repugnant Job Bills he is sitting on.

Dawn: I agree. Ronald Reagan took over a failing economy when he was elected. But, he was able to cut taxes and use heavy deficit spending to boost the economy. Currently, the tax cuts of 2001, 2003, and 2010 make up a large part of our deficit, along with massive spending since President Reagan was in office.

So, if billions of dollars of government spending is cut, the GDP shrinks. (By the way, GDP was negative during the last quarter of President Bush's term. It has grown, slowly, since President Obama took office.) If spending is increased in order to stimulate the economy, there is a great risk of devaluing the dollar.

So, do we continue with supply side economics, giving money to the wealthy and corporations? Will they invest it here or overseas? Or, do we go with demand economics? Without any demand for products, why increase supply?

It seems to me that we must stimulate the middle class consumers.

How 'bout neither? Cutting taxes AND increasing spending when we've got a RIDICULOUS deficit is NOT a good plan, and as the article correctly points out the next Congress will likely just keep kicking the can down the road. Short-term projects on bridges & roads are just that - SHORT-term. We need LONG-term solutions. We need to bring back jobs that have been outsourced overseas, so how 'bout a tax credit for businesses ONLY IF they bring back jobs, and a surtax if they outsource? How 'bout an import tax on Chinese goods, the cheap crap that's flooding our markets and putting Americans out of work? We could raise alot of revenue doing that, and cheap Chinese solar panels did just put that company which received a first stimulus check into bankruptcy. Another way to raise revenue is to simply increase employment. More people working, more people paying taxes, it's that simple. No we don't need to stimulate middle-class consumers, we need to stimulate businesses into hiring them!

But I know this isn't going to happen, especially (God forbid) taxing businesses that outsource. Yep, I'm a Republican, but the Reps are so wrong to think cutting taxes on businesses that outsource will encourage them to hire the unemployed. That's about as dumb as Obama's "let's build some bridges" plan. The infrastructure that needs the most work is our electrical grid - anybody talking about THAT??? No, of course not.

strength of character? and you voted for Obama, yea ok, wtf Dawn?

I believe economies are built from the ground up, and that is why trickle down has never worked. More tax cuts for the richest is no real motivation to hire Americans. I think a WPA is in order. I was thinking putting an east-west high speed rail above I-80. A lot of work in a lot of states. Already have most of the land rights. Saves energy over the long run. Only American citizens need apply.

sorry that poor obama doesnt get a bubble to ride on but the fact is the man is an idiot and is spending money like he owns the printing press...(oh @!$%# this moron does have control of the printing press doesnt he)

John Boehner said the 2010 elections were about jobs, jobs, jobs. Since then, I can count the number of jobs legislation proposals from Republicans on NO hands. This is the problem: increasing jobs will also increase Obama's chances for re election. Republicans have had a choice to work for the best interest of Americans - JOBS - or to work for the best interest of their party first and foremost. They have chosen party first and foremost.

I don't agree with the specifics of the job plan 100 percent, but the specifics are supposed to be worked out by congress. At least Obama is trying. I do agree with his comments about the "political circus." Teapublicans need to unwrap themselves out of the American flag and quit strutting around and do their damned job for America.

mike- Every proposal forwarded by the Republicans was immediately shot down by the Senate over Ideological differences. Both parties are full of it, so to point a finger at one side or the other is purely rhetoric. No merit.

I think you're the only one here with ideas, everyone else seems to be doing the FOX news take.

John-1894652

That is the FOX news take. And it is %100 correct. Totally workable. They are as much to blame for polarizing Americans as anyone, but their fiscal views are usually the best ones.

AC Robertson,

If I were at home instead of here (Afghanistan), I would mail you a copy of my 1990s Research Paper to US Government (updated 1993, 2009, 2011). 2,000 pages + 1,000 pages of data, references, logic charts, perth charts, decision matrices, timelines, history, etc..

In the tech/scientific side of MSN we already discussed viable alternative energy in detail. As Generation IV/V Thorium Nuclear Reactors, and the Brazil Solution of Sugarcane to Ethanol (products Fuel, Electricity, Purified Water) versus Corn to Ethanol (requires Electricity, and Water with a low output of Ethanol). Vehicles manufactured after 1984 would require minimal modifications to use E-100 or Flex Fuel; the biomass, biogasse could either be used as clean burning fuel for steam boilers and steam turbines to create electricity or be used to create biofuels. The biofuels plus the ethanol would be used as aircraft fuel.

The Methane was out as the main component of Natural Gas (NG) as more harmful to Ozone Layer than CO2 (absorbed by Plants to make O2) as well as the aging NGinfrastructure within the US, the other opposition is the main means of harvesting the NG, "Fracting" and the longterm environmental effects (poisons into the drinking water, thousands of miles of underground water).

The Solar Voltaic Panels would be implemented to be used completely off the Grid, inverters and storage batteries. Too many pros and cons to post here in detail.

Also in my 1990s Research Paper was a very lenghty part on Vertical Axis (VAWT) and Horizontal Axis Wind Turbines (HAWT), the NASA 20 year Experiment conducted at the North Shore of Oahu, Hawaii. And how the US was going in the wrong direction with HAWTs, bird kills, down wind droughts, noise, maintenance, land usage, etc.. Also too many pros and cons to discuss in detail here.

The problem that was brought up with Coal, was Toxic Coal Ash Ponds (the size of large lakes, hundreds of acres). As what does not go up the smokes stack ends up in the Coal Ash, as toxic metals including arsenic, mercury, lead, beryllium, cadmium, cobalt, selenium, chromium, boron, Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAHs), dioxins, etc. with these ending up in the drinking water, streams, lakes, and rivers in very high concentrations. Spills or levees breaking destroying small US Towns, the land becoming uninhabitable.
As far as the Public Mass Transit, and Rail, I mentioned that in my 1990s Research Paper, based on my experience with the Deutsche Bahn. The responsibility for rebuilding the Public Mass Transit would be as part of what NCL (National City Lines) did when they destroyed all the Mass Public Transit at 48 US Cities and replaced the rail with GM Buses using Standard Oil of California Gasoline, Firestone Tires, and lubricants from Phillips Petroleum; it would be at their cost to replace all of the electric rail Mass Public Transit at these 48 US Cities, with Independent oversight.

In my 1990 Research Paper, I mentioned Flat Taxes plus Value Added Taxes (based on the impact to the US Economy and Manufacturing) from my experience at Deutscheland*. This will not fly in the US, since then Candidate Obama did not know the difference between a VAT and a Sales Tax and was vehemently opposed to Flat Taxes in his conversation with "Joe the Plumber".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRPbCSSXyp0

*The way that the the Flat Tax works at Deutscheland was you never saw it, except as a deduction on your paycheck (no Income Tax Forms to file, unless there was a discrepancy). When you purchased anything there was a Sales Tax. If the item(s) purchased had an economic or manufacturing impact, like Foreign Products if there were also similar products manufactured at Deutscheland, then the VAT was also added with the Sales Tax to the overall price. This experience is why I could not understand why Candidate Obama could not understand what Joe the Plumber was trying to tell Candidate Obama.

Actualy, borrowing makes the world go round. You people act like it's the worst thing that could happen, but in truth... borrowing is a good thing. Imagine if no one borrowed?

1. VAT collected at the sales point receives revenue from those that are working off the grid. That is why it is better than a flat tax, other wise they are the same, just different points of collection. Of course you can still miss those that work under the barter system...

2. HAWT and VAWT, use the same amount of 'Rare Earths' that presently come mainly from China, about 2+tonnes per 3Gigawatt turbine. Both have their unique weakness & environmental problems. The VAWT - biggest problem is high wind SAFETY. Service life and maintenance cost are still a MAJOR problem. Research the Hawaii wind farms and their resulting viable service life...

3. While coal ash disposal is a MAJOR problem, there are many uses for it in normal construction materials. ie concrete, cinder blocks, asphalt roads,etc, etc. Heck, China even uses it in sheet-rock/dry wall... Ha! Ha!

IMO - The best place would be placing it back into the open pit mines, the environment there is already $crewed, then cover it with local dirt & vegetation. The coal trains already return from the power plants empty, just fill them with the ash & deliver it to the mines, for disposal...

4. Solar Panels have their uses, especially in remote locations, and roof coverings for EV parking areas. Using just these two options would remove the daytime storage problems, that extended solar panel generation creates for the grid...

5. If you research Hydrated methane, you will discover that they do NOT Utilize fracturing to remove this energy source. It still burns cleaner than NG or coal, every hydro-carbon has their trade-offs. You just need to unitize the ones that provide the most energy efficiency and least amount of pollution...

6. Currently the real fracting problem is centered around the disposal of the drilling/fracting mud and the water pollution caused by this. The hype about flaming wells and pollution of the water tables by fracting is Media BS. Sure it happens, but it has been happening for decades prior to horozontal drilling & fracting...

7. Corn-ethanol is a BAD IDEA, even Al Gore admits this now. Last year alone it cost the US Tax Payer over $7+Billion USD. During the Clinton/Gore years the USA paid over $30+Billion for this research...

The trouble for sugarcane in the USA there is a shortage of available acreage to grow it and its production in South America, has resulted in the decimation of the Rain Forest...

Ethanol reduces a ICE vehicle - MPG by up to 30% when using 15% ethanol, it increases the vehicles maintenance cost, and decreases the fuels storage life when blended with gasoline (hydroscopic)... Ask any of your buddies what happens when they store their cars for a year or so and then they try to start them...

erickorg,

The banks would go bust and the consumer would have more disposable income...

People would be forced to save, to purchase those big ticket items...

They should eliminate tax loopholes for corporations and instead provide tax incentives for creating new American jobs. Tax outsourcing. If corporations continue to make trillions of dollars in profits, refuse to reinvest in America and American jobs, then tax the money they are sitting on at a much higher rate. The executive salaries and bonuses that just got increased need to be taxed at a very high rate.

In short, no more hog snouts in the profits trough for our corporate porkers.

You're too obsessed with Mr. Burns - quit watching The Simpsons.

Large companies aren't looking for Obama to fail - they see him failing and are very cautious because they don't know what to expect from this administration.

Obama's actions are NOT consistent with his words. He can't be trusted nor predicted. He lacks leadership and cannot acheive consensus even amongst his own party. His comments to the republicans, "We're in charge now, get used to it" set a tone in politica he cannot overcome. He will be done soon and will go down in history as a failure.

FYI - I think Bush was horrible and I voted for Obama once.

Good post, Matt

Government is not responsible for, and is incapable of, creating jobs.

A bullsh!t Dumbpublican talking point which has been proven WRONG, WRONG, WRONG...

http://www.denverpost.com/brown/ci_11744302

http://dailyreckoning.com/how-the-government-creates-jobs/

http://www.usajobs.opm.gov/

http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_contractor

You guys are brain-dead.

Jeff-1592116,

http://www.denverpost.com/brown/ci_11744302

Nor was it only spendthrift Democrats pushing the project. It had enthusiastic support from the business community, and a lot of those folks are Republicans.

As far as creating Government Jobs. Hows this paycheck of $100,000 per year. File taxes with deductions equals about $10,000, the difference is $90,000. The $90,000 is paid by US Taxpayers.

Jeff.... can't disagree with you more... I have a government job... I'm paid by Taxpayer money.. your money... I pay taxes out of my check.... repeat cycle.........

Private employer: Provides service, products to sell, He buys from vendors according to supply/demand.. prices are set same way. He pays workers AND taxes out of Profit/income. The WORKER takes his check and pays for goods, services, products AND taxes.. repeat.

Difference: Government: most of the money NEVER gets to the Economy but stays in government, some get to private sector (eating, bills) but most goes right back in taxes to pay.... MY paycheck

Non government job: MINUS taxes ALL the money goes to economy keeps SEARS, WALMART, AUTOZONE and Stockholders in business.. Government CANNOT create jobs if it is PAID out of TAXES. Oh one last thing What is a "government" job: get ready ( I have respect for these entity's its just the truth)

Police

Fireman

Soldier

State official

Congress

Senate

DoD

Garbage man

Government Contractor

are you getting the picture .... Infrastructure is important and need to be done but it is paid for out of state and federal funds... good for those workers (A job) but does little for the economy and growth...This is why"stimulus" does not work and Government DO NOT create Jobs cause once the "job" is done..the work ends.. Then what?.

This message brought to you buy a conservative, Christian, Republican

Flamer, you're missing a big point. The Government job that you say is worthless? Still helps that government employee to buy a house, buy a car, buy new tires at Sears, buys groceries, and tvs at Walmart, and continues to invest in the economy. We need Government jobs just as much as we need private sector jobs. Not everyone can afford to hire their own private investigator and fire their police officers. THe Fireman started out as a Private Sector job, but only the rich could afford them. The Government realized that it was a great idea and made it a public service for everyone. Government constantly hires Private Contractor for pubic interests. And yes, my town went from public employed Garbagemen to paying for Private Garbagemen and guess what?.... they suck!

sooooo flame,

Private employer: Provides service, products to sell, He buys from vendors according to supply/demand.. prices are set same way. He pays workers AND taxes out of Profit/income. The WORKER takes his check and pays for goods, services, products AND taxes.. repeat.

your saying a government job (which you are not one) provides no service ? or product (bridge, road, etc,,)

does not buy from vendors ? and you don't take your check and pay for goods ?

This is to all those who call Obama stupid and he doesn't know what he is doing. If you really truly think a Teabagger/Republican will do better then all I can say is to look back to the last President and to see how we got here. Obama has been doing the best he can considering that during the last quarter of 2008 we had a 7.8% job loss and still declining. With in the first year Obama had stopped the decline of jobs and increased job growth by 1.9%. My only issue with Obama is that he has allowed the rightwing nuts to run over him. Reading the comments that slam Obama and promotes the corporate Repub/Teabaggers should be proof to all Americans of why we are in this mess and if we don't vote those corporate paid puppets out of office come 2012 then we can all bend over because we become a 3rd world country bought and sold by Corporate America. You will also have to work for $3 an hour with no benefits in anyway which will create more crimes and violence.

Not "downing a Government Job... it has merits for that person who is fortunate to have a job (my self included) . It pays bills buy groceries.... ect. However... you can't "turn" the economy on a National scale by government employment... one of the posters mentioned garbage men in his area now are private employees... He mentions the degradation in service however he made my point... The state no longer could afford it. The US begins to "feed" on itself when government "creates" jobs. The money is from Tax payer money so the dollar "earned" under government is not circulated income it is static or stagnant.

It is like me giving you a dollar and then you turn around and give the "same" dollar back... am I one dollar richer? Juxtapose that with me "paying" you a dollar. that is yours. Never the less You can only create so many jobs according to the US budget... eventually you will have to do what the Government is doing now. Cut military (jobs) Cut civil service (jobs). My pay has been "frozen" now for a year (not complaining... at least I have a job :) )

But it does not help the Nation... It helps local economies for a bit then increases the pain when the "project" ends. I don't have to post links.. do your research.... In the first year of Obamastimuls 40+% were government/state jobs.... the second year when unemployment spiked occurred when the "money" ran out... Most of the jobs lost... You guessed it 40+% were government jobs. (those are not exact percentages...they are much higher)

This is why empowering the Private sector by easing taxes... allowing the private sector to expand/contract as the economy does... it doesn't need the government... never did... Obama last year: "Pass this stimulus and un-employment will not go above 8%"..... you all ready know the rest.