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Rep. Paul Ryan (TeaPublican) wants to paint the President's plan for "shared suffering" as Class Warfare!!! Ryan should know. He's the TeaPublican TaxMan. If this is class warfare, guess who fired the first shot?? Paul Ryan!
Actually what we are moving towards is a Caste System - the middle class is being squeezed out - the only ones to be left in 20 years will be the Uber Wealthy and the peons.
Paul Ryan can't stay away from the news. He is an egocentric republican interested in advancing his agenda and the agenda of the rich people. Why can't he just sh****p up and let the President and the others do their jobs?
Talk about a party pooper. Paul Ryan: GO AWAY
Because the Republicans must protect the Millionaires and Billionaires from pay the same proportion of taxes as the Middle Class. The horrors that they would experience. They might have to only fly first class instead of having their own Lear Jet.
Because of President Obama's policies we are already giving out over $18 billion to people who don't pay taxes at all. And you guys want more? Sorry, the rich are already paying their fair share. In fact they are paying MORE than their fair share. The progressive/liberal agenda is going down next election. Some folks may actually have to go out and get a job.
Look - this piece meal mess of loopholes, temporary tax cuts and other nonsense got us where we are today.
How about the President gets some stones and actually overhauls the damn tax system, throwing out all the partisan nonsense and incorporating something like Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan? You exempt groceries and medical care, and everyone participates. No more con-men pitting one class against the other, no more corporate or any other tax dodges, eliminate government social engineering and let the economy boom!
Anything else will only sustain the status quo, where these morons will pit one against the other.
Who's actually creating jobs here in the USA for US Citizens? If the job creators aren't creating jobs, then they should definitely be paying a share of taxes equal to the middle class. Instead they just sit on their riches or spend the money overseas.
Class warfare? That's when you make the middle class pay more in taxes than the rich!
You wan't to talk about class warfare?
Class Warfare is when the top one tenth of 1 percent hold 86% of the countries wealth
Class warfare is when 17% of African Americans are unemployed, and one in four of EVERY african american spends at least 3 months in jail over their lifetime.
CLASS WARFARE is when you give tax cuts to the rich while running off with the pension plans and 401k's of the working middle class.
If what Obama's doing is class warfare, than the CEO of Goldman sachs is committing Class genocide.
JH: And Paul Ryan is the man that has the golden key to give jobs, right? He only trashes President Obama anytime that he sees that there is a possibility of him doing something positive.
The "rich"are not most of the people on this vine. The Real Rich of this country do not pay attention to him or to any of the other people on this vine. They are the Oil Companies or the 500 Fortune Companies...Nobody is interested in taking away the "riches"of the ignorant people in here.
They real rich are busy protecting their companies that are iin India or China. Get a grip. You are not part of that group.
Paul Ryan is a punk. The nation's wealthiest are paying historically low taxes when the nation suffers. Screw that weasel and the TP. The class warfare is on the middle class and the wealthy get a pass. Create jobs? Yes, they do--but in China, India, Malaysia, etc.
As the story says, there are 450,000 people earning $1 million or more. So lets say we take $1,000,000 from each and every one of them. That adds up to $450,000,000 which isn't enough to cover the half billion Obama p*ssed away on Solyndra.
The point being that oversight and budgetary controls and restraints on what idiot Presidents do to get votes needs to be a priority, not targeting a group of people who happen to work hard, earn money and create jobs far more efficiently than the government can do it.
And please don't forget that the Alternative Minimum Tax was created to punish a few millionaires who managed to pay very little in income tax. Nowadays the AMT affects tens of millions of taxpayers who have incomes in the $50,000 range - hardly the class of millionaires originally targeted.
I know it's getting to the point where, a billionaire can't keep a couple spare million in his pocket anymore. I guess they will have to stuff even more money in those swiss bank accounts.
Obama just wants more money to hand out to his union buddies to make sure they get him reelected. I agree with doing away with loopholes, but a lot of this is just political noise from Obama who is trying to instigate class warfare. The tax benefits of long term investing is what generates a lot of the capital available for investment in business in his country. If you start treating long term investment income like regular wages for tax purposes it will severely hurt the amount of money available for investment in growing businesses. People need to look at the entire economic impact of this proposal, not just buy into the class warfare nonsense.
Entitlements - like medicare and medicaid. What are we entitled to - its our money, we pay into these "entitlements". We are not asking for anything we didn't contribute to.
I'll never make six figures, but I still think one flat tax rate should be in place. Everybody pays the same percent.
JH, how can you sit there and say that? How do you know those you are talking about have no job? And if they don't have a job, where are the jobs you teabaggers ran on in 2010? Where is even a proposal from your side to get those "job creators" creating the jobs? They got at least two tax cuts from Bush, so how come they created very few if any jobs? How come they sit on their money or invest it in China for slave wage workers? YOU get off your A** and start answering these questions. Where are the jobs you teabaggers ran on? Why are the republicans putting the task of unseating this president OVER the American peoples interests? Where is the replace part of repeal and replace of the affordable health care act? Fact is, you all have NO ideas of how to do any of it. If you do you all should be tried for treason for sinking the US credit rating. You all have the sound bite you don't want to mortgage your kids and grand kids future. Get out of the way and let the dems fix all you teapublicans screwed up.
What a Joker you are JH,
The rich are paying their fair share?? Really??
I own a small corporation, and I pay 15% on my first $50,000 in profits and 35% above that. That's right I can't afford the lawyers then can???
I paid mre taxes than GE and Exxon last year?? You call that fair dude????
There are way more middle class and poor people than there are RICH people so if these people don't want to pay their fair share then guess what VOTE out their stooges come 2012, imagine if the RICH lost their stooges in Congress .... LOL LOL LOL
Why is the Jobs Czar Jeffrey Immelt? Why is Obama putting this tax dodger in charge of jobs, as his company, GE, is building factories in China sending jobs overseas?
Seems Obama's administration is our own worst enemy.
Define class warfare. Increasing government to keep paying unemployment benefits and passing out food stamps does nothing to create jobs. More jobs created less dependency on big government and costs less. Obama's job bill will increase the deficit and not add enough jobs to reduce costs, therefore it is not efficient.
President Barack Obama said at a fundraiser held in a private residence in Washington, D.C., on Thursday evening that the $447 billion American Jobs Act he has proposed will create 1.9 million American jobs—which works out to a cost of about $235,263 per job.
“It’s estimated that the American Jobs Act would add two percentage points to the GDP, and add as many as 1.9 million jobs, and bring the unemployment rate down by a full percentage point,” Obama said, according to the official White House transcript of his remarks.
From his mouth his jobs bill is not efficient..... let free enterprise work without government intervention and private sector jobs will be created!
450,000 x 1,000,000 = 450,000,000,000 not 450,000,000 its 450 billion not 450 million.
Chicago
Well you just fell right into it
First off the average persona making $1M a year (Now that sounds like a funny juxtaposition..."Average" and "People making a Million a year" People making $1M a year are anything but average)
But Obama wants to do away with the AMT...the tax class you complain about, Glad you support Obama!
THis tax is only for those making making a million a year, not those with just a million in assets. and it is only that they pay the same min percentage that the middle class pays and not use every loophole shelter and accounting trick they can find to pay next to nothing.
Basically an AMT targeting only the highest earners using the biggest loopholes.
THis lets your "class of Millionaires" off the Hook for the most part. Glad you support Obama reforming that.
Before you think, well 'FranklyTrue' is 'some kind of welfare gay who feeds off the gubmint' I fit your category of 'class of Millionaires' I don't make a Million a year, but I make a very substantial living, and my assets are well into 7 figures.
And I do not mind paying my fair share...nor do I take joy in writing six future checks to the IRS every year. But I refuse to deny my responsibility to these who work hard and never get ahead, those who fantasize about an "American Dream" that they will never achieve. That canard is sold by Reps to keep the drooling mass on their side. It is why I support Universal Healthcare, Soial Security and Welfare/Disability for those who need it. (But not for those who are able and refuse to work)
The GOP ought to know about 'class warfare', the Republicans have been supporting a 'war on the middle class' (anybody remember that term?) for decades; it's called outsourcing, or globalization, or world economy, or any other term you can think of to disguise the real intent, which is cheap labor.
So while many many Americans are preoccupied with Dancing with the Stars, more and more of their jobs have disappeared overseas for the express and only purpose of taking advantage of cheap labor.
The Republicans champion all sorts of bizarre tax loopholes that are available only to the wealthy; they turn a blind eye to tax fraud when it's committed on a grand scale, but insist that every average person pay every cent of tax owed.
The Republicans champion deregulation with a capital-D, but even Mr Greenspan discovered (and quite late in your career, Al) that large business and banking industries will do dishonest things if left to their own devices.
So when the Republicans cry 'class warfare', what they really mean is that someone is attempting to counter the GOP's efforts to support (and bail out) the wrong-headed policies which have led to our current financial crises and to the depression which is just ahead. (...and, yeah, I used the d-word.).
Don't tax more just because people are rich. Tax the living hell out of those wealthy pigs who steal our jobs and move then offshore. Repeal any laws that limit the ability of firms to manufacture in America.
Thanks Almighty I did not notice that ChicagoSkeptic cannot do math either!!
Only the fair tax will solve this mess.
It would prevent loopholes and tax breaks.
But Obama won't support it because it would end his working the uneducated masses into a frenzy. That's what it is all about, getting votes.
So I will continue to take advantage of the deductions allowed and continue to avoid all income taxes.
Most of those who make a million a year are independent business owners and they can adjust their income to avoid this tax. Wait and see how the number of millionaires in this country drops next year.
Idiocy is as idiocy does.....
"Only little people pay taxes". - Leona Helmsley (Billionaire Mogul)
Hey dumbass...450,000 x 1,000,000 = $450,000,000,000 that's 450 BILLION.
Enough to pay for his ENTIRE plan
Even if you really meant 100K instead of a million, that's still 45 BILLION. Enough to pay for infrastructure jobs that the 'job creators' used to build their empires.
Obama didn't start class warfare, it has been waged by the elite over the last decades, and now we can all see what republican policies have brought us. If republicans decide to run on class warfare, they will lose. Bring it on.
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4?op=1
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Coming from the guy who wants to hurt my grandparents!
I can't wait to hear who they want to hurt next!
Did you hear any of them offering to take a pay cut? No they decide who's pay gets cut so they can vote themselves a raise!
Everett
As soon as your small corporation starts making over the 250K threshold are you willing to pony up 46%? Well if the progressive/liberals have their way you will have to. You my friend will be considered rich. I know because I already pay 38% on the net profit of my small corporation. I employ people who I pay a good wage to. If my taxes go up much more I wil have to cut back on wages. That is not because I pay myself too much, it is because it cost money to keep a business going. President Obama is a class warfare man, you know it and most people know it. The problem is that we have too many people with their hand out who are listening to these progressive/liberals and thinking they deserve more just because they're Americans. BS, real Americans get out and get their hands dirty and sweat a little to make a good life for themselves.
As the story says, there are 450,000 people earning $1 million or more. So lets say we take $1,000,000 from each and every one of them. That adds up to $450,000,000 which isn't enough to cover the half billion Obama p*ssed away on Solyndra.
The point being that oversight and budgetary controls and restraints on what idiot Presidents do to get votes needs to be a priority, not targeting a group of people who happen to work hard, earn money and create jobs far more efficiently than the government can do it.
And please don't forget that the Alternative Minimum Tax was created to punish a few millionaires who managed to pay very little in income tax. Nowadays the AMT affects tens of millions of taxpayers who have incomes in the $50,000 range - hardly the class of millionaires originally targeted.
Are you serious? Do you think it is only the Republicans that are rich? Do you think that it is only the rich Republicans that fly on private jets? Geez can't you see that it is not one party it is all.....open your freakin eyes! Good old Nancy is a millionaire and she is not flying coach, none of them are!
Well if things do go south, then I guess we will actually have class warfare. No I don't mean name calling, I mean people with nothing to lose trying to get something to support their families by stealing from the rich.
tim, glad to see you are good at math and hate, have a great day!
For anyone that thinks it is only rich Republicans who don't want to pay taxes, do some research into the Kennedy clan.
Ol' Joe Kennedy got himself a trust fund set up in Fiji so the Kennedy's have been able to avoid paying any income taxes for generations now.
The Liberal Lion was the largest hypocrite in Washington DC.
Now THAT is saying something......
Yep. As soon as the welfare checks bounce, you will see violence on a scale you won't believe.
Now I know why MSNBC has the saying "LEAN FORWARD". What they mean is lean forward with your hand out. That's the only way progressive/liberals can survive. Take someone elses hard earned money.
You libs are aware that a millionaire already payed taxes on income aren't you? Mr. Buffett pays less a percentage than most Americans and he does it with loopholes and complains that he isn't paying enough?
I have known several ultra-rich people. They were interesting, smart, funny, and sometimes generous, sometimes arrogant and strange. But their life goals are to get as much money as possible, to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, to hide their money and assets offshore, and to scam the system. I don't like what the US government does with the money it takes from all of us through taxes. But as long as money is being taken from us via taxes, the rich should have the same percentage of their money taken as is taken from the rest of us. Currently, the rich pay a smaller percentage because they know how to game the system, and can afford to do it. The rest of us can't, or because of ethics, we won't.
This is just the type of uneducated drivel one comes to expect from a liberal.
It is not "YOUR" job moron! The job belongs to the employer. If said employer chooses to leave the US and do business elsewhere, he is free to do so.
Unless of course you feel that we should build a wall in order to prevent them from leaving. Seig Heil!
FLAT TAX oh wait too simple no way too hide what the government is doing
Since when is being factual and disproving your point hate?
Mr. Buffett's income is derived from dividends on his stocks. That is called "capital gains" and is taxed at a lower rate than income. The reason for this is to encourage investment.
So while most of us have jobs, we also buy stocks. We pay a one rate of tax on our income and a lower rate on any dividends our stocks pay us.
Simple question...are all of the followiung handouts?
Social Security Disability
Social Security Retirement
Medicare
Unemployment Insurance
Business tax should go to the employees! Quarterly or Yearly what ever you desire. Businesses using Congress as a catering service and politicians who use it as a campaign bank fund needs to end.
Income tax and consumer tax.
Yes let everyone see the price of government out of their paychecks.
American Capitalism and Free Market!
Like that is every going to happen to actual have an equal amount of control over We The People.
Practical Libertarian, you are very correct and that is what the Republicans are looking at as a fix for our messed up tax system. Not necessarily Herman Cains version but some version of flat and fair tax.
Rick-3608408
The uber rich (Soros) and the wealthy corporations (GE) are going to lose their stooge in 2012. His name is Obama. I see his "volunteer" posters are really foaming at the mouth today. As he gets more desperate, they get more desperate or is that the guy with the teleprompter on what to post is getting desperate. Either way they make less sense every day. You want to know why? Because if the tax code is scraped and replaced by a fair tax they who have paid nothing and been given tax refunds will also have to pay. Of course their paying the same percentage of what they get as everyone else will make them squeel, unfair in a big hurry.
Just more of the same "keep my hidden games" BS from Obama. He couldn't get additional taxes "on the rich" as he says when he had control of the house and the Senate and now when he doesn't get it again he will squeel "Republicans" did it. Lord this is tiresome, repeat, repeat, repeat.
Class warfare folks? How about his Union buddy threatening members of the Tea Party. How about his followers marching on Wall Street and threatening people working there. That and the riots they are prone to is real class warfare. His supporters think they are entitled to everything including everyone else's money. Get over it.
Atlas shrugging
Ha did you just use that name because the book is long annoying and tedious to make yourself sound intelligent, because you just made poss the dumbest comment on this thread thus far. Mainly because your math does not add up and also you are proving the other side right.
Warren buffet even stated that he pays more taxes than his secretary and that he should pay his far share like everyone else. What really gets my goat is when shameless people like you throw fiction in with fact and make baseless claims with nothing but rhetoric and ideology.
You and the rest are prob the same people that complained the country was not fixed after Obama was in office for 3 months. Or maybe you were one of those people that screamed " I want my country Back!!!!!" right after he was elected. No let me guess your one of those people that just do not like his policies right? Riiiighhht.....
For all I know your pob a decent person but its seems your arguments are irrational and baseless.
It really does feel like class warfare when you become the target. MR Millionaire Ryan feels the sting this time.
Tim Seattle
An easy answer, NO. We pay into those programs.
Is 3 years unemployment a hand out?
Is receiving tax dollars back when you pay none a handout?
Is receiving food stamps for candy and non-essential food a handout?
Is receiving free breakfast and lunch at school a handout?
Is demanding the rich pay even more so it can be handed out a handout?
This is a typical response from a right winger. Go ahead MOVE. WE DON'T CARE! You can move to China, Iraq or Syria I hear those places are nice. The reason rich people like it here is because it's SAFE. If they want to leave to avoid paying their fair share in taxes then LEAVE, just don't come back you won't be welcome here anymore. I'm fed up with you greedy #$%%@#*s not wanting to help your country in a time of need. Go ahead pack your stuff and MOVE.......we don't need any more GOP traitors.
That is an interesting question and one that can be answered.
Social Security Disability payments were an addition to the original SS act. They increased the payout without increasing the SS tax. So yes, they are a handout.
Social Security Retirement is and isn't a handout. When my mother started collecting SS, it took her 13 months to get back every penny she had paid into SS over her working life. That was 10 years ago. So while we do pay into it, the average recipient takes out many, many times back what they paid into it. So yes, it is and it isn't depending on one's life span.
Medicare is not a handout.
Unemployment Insurance was not a handout until it was increased to 99 weeks. Now it is a handout as the taxes collected for it do not cover the cost.
Not only that, but Ayn Rand (one who rallied against government benefits) was a Social Security and Medicare recipient and happily so it turns out. I guess its me 'shrugging' now (chuckle)
JS - Please explain to me how 6% of 180 million active working class Citizens can get you elected? It is without debate that Unions have the Democrats in their back pocket but its a bit of a reach to claim they get you elected.
Here's My Question that none of the Republicans on this BLOG ever answer.. If we give huge additional Tax Breaks to Large Corporate America and no jobs come then what? Corporate America hasn't added net gain in Jobs in over two decades, you guys are being snowballed and distracted from the real problem. How do we compete when Companies are allowed to go overseas and pay slave labor, like DELL in the Dominican Republic paying skilled workers 5 dollars a week, not even enough for rent. Same thing in China, its the hoarding of money by the same ole players. They own the media and absolutely understand how to keep you guys distracted and fighting about some millionaire paying a couple of more points on his rates.. 80 percent of the money earned in this Country is on Wall Street and that number continues to increase. The imbalances of Trade, The money system and wages will be our un-doing, not some dude getting a Tax Break.. I guess we need to completely fail so all can see the real demons..
Shaking my head-2479300
How about the woman that got stomped at a GOP rally, how about people calling a black representative the "N" word and spitting on him when he walked into the white house, how about the offices that were vandalized after the GOP put bulls eyes on their location on the web.
How about over 350 blocked bills by the GOP to hinder job growth and hinder our economic growth all for the sake of political gain.
"Let them eat cake"- Marie Antoinette.
Small business' pay 35% on their profits big ones don't pay anywhere near 35% or even 10 %. I defy everyone to provide proof that any one of the S & P 500 or Fortune 500 pays even 15%
Flat tax, Term Limits only two terms for all elected positions, Only people can contribute to campaigns. no unions, corporations, PAC or super PACS. Campaign funds may only be raised locally. (no out of state contributions for Senate no out of district contributions for congress) 90 days after a election all campaigns must prove that all their bills are paid off with all remaining balances going to a college scholarship fund for low income and lower middle class families. Congressional districts may have no more than 8 changes of direction for their boundry lines- no more gerrymandering. A constitutional amendment eliminating the Federal Senate and all State Senates they are unnecessary.
Why not?, Did we not give the all of our money in bailouts? And did they not cause and threaten all our jobs by their unregulated casino mortgage trading? Just sayin',,,,,
It is sad that we here are just as divided as those who we despise for being the exact same way. Write all of your representatives about your concerns because they all still work for us no matter what party we are.
Class warfare at its finest. I must say it is working well. Emotions rule over logic and intentions. Tax the millionaires, tax the corporations. tax and tax some more. No, don't look at how that money is going to be spent, ignore Geithner and the plan to bailout the EU with taxpayer monies. No, we must take, so we can spend tax money to support our FILTHY RICH INTERNATIONAL BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES. You think those fatcats are going to be the ones taxed????? Hell, no but guess where all your tax money will be going.
Short memories abound. What caused the financial collapse? Government bailouts helped who? What did the government use to bailout the Wall Street Fatcats and Banksters??? Your money. And now Obama wants to raise taxes only he's being sneaky, he'll only 'tax millionaires more.'
I think the Republicans should give him everything he wants, all of it. That way when it blows up further, and it will, the democrats will only have themselves and Obama to blame. Now, collapse away...I'm dissing and calling Obama's tax the rich a scam, ergo, I must have my post collapsed.
Jobs are only created when there is a demand for a product or service.
Giving companies money is not going to create that demand, and taxing their profits is only going to entice them to cut back on their income in order to avoid the taxes.
If you were to raise the taxes on every company making $1,000,000 or more to 75% of everything over $1,000,000, and I owned a company making $2,000,000 a year, you can bet your ass that I would cut back so that my income was under $1,000,000 a year regardless of how many employees I have to let go.
Such is the nature of class warfare, there is always a way to avoid the increased taxes.
Some of you may remember the "Luxury Tax" placed on yachts and expensive cars. What happened? People just kept the old yacht and car. Almost destroyed the yacht business in the US.
I would really like to know what they call that the republicans are doing...sounds like class warfare to me...just tilted the other way. More for the rich and less for the poor and middle class.
I wonder if the republicans know that there are more lower and middle class citizens than there are in the high income class. Oh wait, I forgot. We don't vote our leaders in, we vote for the electorates and they vote them in. I think it's time to go back to the popular vote instead of the electorate college.
Globalization created major winners and major losers. The major winners were the politicians and entreprenurial class. The losers are the middle class and the poor. Moving jobs overseas to exploit cheap labor, under the table payouts, and tax avoidance created huge profits for companies that were parlayed into huge salaries/bonuses for the executive class and their investors. Now is the time for the entreprenurial class and their benefactors to see the downside of globalization---taxation to help fix what you helped destroy in this country. I am curious, has Paul Ryan suggested any ideas how Congress might sacrifice to control government spending? Maybe he needs to look at his own salary and benefits multiplied by 535 to support the cause. The ultimate hypocrisy is pushing policies that will decimate the lives of others while you retain all your cozy perks and benefits. Everyone needs to go to the website Americanselect.com to get control of our country and its narcissitic politicians.
Scar86, and 92% of the poor are lazy. See? I can make up stats, too!
Oh, and by the way, nice to see that all of the anti-liberal agenda comments were "collapsed by the community". Liberal hypocrisy at its finest. Free speech only for those who agree with you.
That's funny, I only received 6 months of unemployment benefits, then it was done. No extensions. I do know there are some 99'ers but apparently I did not qualify for some reason, after working at the same company for 9 years.
It is class warfare. It's always been that since day one. At our founding only landowners could vote.
Class warfare continues. What the rich and powerful fear is the vote - an informed electorate is their worst nightmare.
What they want you to believe is that 98% of the lazy and stupid are poor. Which is how the top 2% justify their ownership of the country.
Which was pretty much King George's reasoning as well. So we've got another revolution - what did these a-holes think we'd do???
Since 2006 I have been is same boat...so tell me who's wrong in last FIVE YEARS !!! ;)
Ok....... lets say you liberals take every last penny of everyone of those "rich" people. And take that money to hand out in social programs. How long do you think that money will last? No honestly, Im an I dependent, I voted for Mr. Carter and Mr. Clinton. I just want to know how long you think that money will last, we know (you can look it up, not me I already know) how long it will last approximately with minimum of investment because most of it would be spent. Be assured that all of those "rich" will leave and become successful in another country, because thats what they are successful. The big question is WHO do you go after next........ the semi rich? Then who the people we think MAY be rich.
The rich helped create the current recession by shipping our jobs overseas and making tons of money off toxic mortgages. If they don't want to share their wealth by creating and paying for legitimate work, then they can pay for our welfare.
You do realize the poor have medicaid the retired have medicare. The working class who pay for medicaid and medicare cannot afford health insurance that is where ObamaCare steps in. Those horrible Democrats want to take care of those who take care of everyone else.
SHAME SHAME on THEM!
Class Warfare is what we are fighting against!
Sadly, our elected officials work hard to keep the electorate ignorant.
Warren Buffetts tax rate being just the latest tool to work the uneducated into a frenzy.
They never mention that his "income" comes from the dividends paid by his stocks and those dividends, known as "capital gains" are taxed at a lower rate than regular income.
So while it may be true that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary, they have different forms of income. Apples and Oranges, yet Obama plays it as if they are both apples and gets away with it because of an ignorant populace.
Thank you Dept. of Education. LOL
MY GIRL - Republicans planed and orchestrated TARP 1.0, Talk about brain washed...
Jolly,
Your argument might make sense if not for the fact that this so called recession has created record breaking profit margins and record breaking millionaires and billionaires and at the same time period has produced record breaking POOR!
Now that sounds like class warfare!
Corporate America = ModernDay Slavery
Stagnation!
The entire tax code needs revision. it shouldn't be as complicated as it is. No loopholes no more getting back more than you paid in. Cain's plan has some merit until you get to his 9 on income tax and that is where the problems start. 9% to a family making 30k is alot more in terms of their ability to make it than it is to the family who is making 300k a year, this is why we have a progressive tax code on income tax. What people also fail to take into consideration is these people are the ones likely to pay more in taxes on gas they tend to drive more in a week in older less fuel efficient cars. More likely to pay more in sales tax as they are more likely to purchase goods that are less durable and of lesser quality.
But really the biggest revenue problem, is caused by horrible trade agreements that up until the 70's no Congress would have allowed. Until you address this, and this President will not infact he is out to give us more of it, the economy will continue to stagnate.
The well paid manufacturing class was and is what drives the nation, it is the primary means of being able to pull yourself into a higher station in life and was taken away from us to protect those at the top of the ladder.
Yes they did....and it caused the creation of the Tea Party.
It was also a success as the government made a profit from it.
Not so with the Solyndra deal though huh?
So they did this by cutting Medicare by 1/2 billion?
Obamacare is going to be ruled unconstitutional in the end and will be just another failed attempt at government control over our lives.
Class warfare is what happened in France in 1789, and in Russia in 1917. Having the wealthiest 1% pay the same rate as middle class Americans can hardly be compared. But if this keeps following the same tack, many Americans might just be building their guillotines.
Under Eisenhower, the rich were taxed at around 80%. They made their money and were still rich after helping to pay for the Interstate Highways and the War debt. The 50's and 60's were boom years. Let's not keep people ignorant of that.
Heya Mr. Obama.....
BEFORE you start taxing anyone......HOW ABOUT HAVING YOUR 41 WHITE HOUSE AIDES PAY THEIR BACK TAXES, along with a multitude of Congressmen and women ?
Shame, shame, shame.....Congressmen and women failing to pay their TAXES yet they WRITE THE TAX LEGISLATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL Tax CUTS for the people who barely pay anything as it is, and tax INCREASES for the people who pay the bulk. Yup, no redistribution here at ALL. Let em have it all, and when the corporations and rich leave the country in droves, and unemployment hits 13% reported, then we can listen to Obama spin how it was the Republicans faults that they just gave him what he wanted.
Like Mygirl said......don't worry about where it's going, just that it's going to be coming in. Just like a liberal to not follow a line of thought to its conclusion. Have fun making our rich bailout the rest of the planet and not seeing a damn thing change for the better here.
No, it was actually an official rate of 90% but no one actually paid that rate because of all the deductions. Most paid less than 20% and people making less than 30K a year paid NO taxes, which was about 85% of the population. Don't remain ignorant of that either.
JH, you are full of crap. Any wages you pay are a business expense, and therefore, not deductible. You only pay income taxes on the amount you take out of your company and put in your pocket. Now if you are paying yourself more than $250,000 a year, you will go to a higher bracket. But, so would an employee you were paying that much. You sir, are full of crap.
Expect to hear from Mr. Lerner and his SEIU, and imported, folks tomorrow during his "Wall Street Rage Day" to take down Chase, Wall Street, and capitalism:
Everyone together now:
Hmmmmm, hmmmm, hmmm.
Hmmmmm, hmmmm, hmmm.
In the end, Obama is likely to work the ignorant into such a frenzy that he just might get his way.
Then the exodus will begin. We can see what is going to happen by watching what is happening in California today.
California is a liberals paradise. They have regulations to control EVERYTHING there. Companies are moving out of there as fast as they can. When the CEO of Carl's Jr. moves his company from California to Texas, that should be a wake up call for the liberals. But no, they just don't seem to be capable of understanding business and how regulations affect them. It currently takes Carl's Jr about 6 weeks to build a restaurant in Texas. In California it takes anywhere from 18 to 24 months. Why? Endless regulations. They make it nearly impossible to do business there.
So as we watch California tip over the edge, we can see how that will be just the first stage in our over all collapse.
It's just a matter of time.
Class warfare? Against the rich?
Alas, if only it were so. The rich have been waging brutal class warfare on the poor and middle class for the last 30-40 years and unfortunately both parties have been their foot soldiers.
Don't forget it was Bill Clinton that pushed for and signed NAFTA and financial deregulation.
Obama is mostly carrying on the same policies. Actually the same policies as Bush too.
I would be very surprised if Obama's talk about taxing millionaires is anything but trivial window dressing and PR to sucker his base again.
the republicans are fighting to keep taxes low for the rich.allow them to continue their free trade/job exporting and raise taxes on the poor and middle class.those of you in the middle class and poor that vote for these monsters are retarded.excuse me"special"
We don't tax wealth in this country, only income.
IF I was a millionaire and had 5 million in the bank and Obama was to raise my taxes to more than I wanted to pay, I could quit my job, or if I owned my own company, cut my salary to 0 and avoid the taxes altogether and live on that 5 million.
After all, it is not illegal to work for free or not at all. So as a millionaire, I would keep my lifestyle and not have to pay the added taxes.
So what would the government do then? Forcibly confiscate the wealth of private citizens?
The tax rate in the past has been much, much higher. Under Republican President Eisenhower,the nominal tax rate for the top bracket exceeded 90%. You may recall Mr. Eisenhower was the Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in the European Theater during WWII. Would you have called him a socialist? Would anyone dare to suggest that he promoted class warfare?
Hell no, they wouldn't. Yet we have these two-bit punks - and that's exactly what they are - Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor standing behind the notion that levying a higher rate of taxation on very wealthy Americans is the equivalent of class warfare. We have the spectacle of Mitch McConnell - a lifetime employee of the government - saying that the wealthy are the job creators, when there is not a scintilla of proof that is true.
Indeed, it is Republican "leaders" who blatantly promote class warfare - utterly shameless liars. For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone could line up behind these dirt bags.
I don't see how it's unfair to require people who make a million dollars in income to pay at a minimum the same rate as someone making $60,000. To read many of the comments here, it seems like people are suggesting we not tax the wealthy at all. It's noble of you all to defend the wealthy, but do you think they'd do the same for you?
Taxing the hell out of the rich is entirely American. If they don't like it - they can take their business to China. Oops, they already have!
There has always been class warfare in America - it's as American as apple pie. There are so many pissed off people today. The rich are running scared - they know it's coming no matter how much money they throw at this election or the next or the next. They can't win this battle.
We, the People, are going to take back America!
You wrote this in a way to insinuate that Eisenhower raised the tax rates to 80-90%. That is not the case. He took office with those rates in place.
Furthermore, no one actually paid that much due to deductions and exemptions. Plus, those making under 30K a year, which was almost 80% of us, paid no income taxes at all.
In 1944, my grandparents bought their home, a small 2 bedroom house, for $4000. That's right....$4000. Today, the property taxes on that same house are over $5000 a year. My grandparents never paid a dime in income taxes, so when you insinuate that Republicans raised the tax rate to 80-90%, you are just wrong.
Quit the diversionary tactics... class warfare my a$$. The GOP isn't waging class warfare, it's waging warfare against Obama, economic recovery, common sense, science, health care, and the American people.
Idiots... pure and simple. You people need to reexamine your motives and priorities. We're going f'ing under. The people making millions in this kind of economy can help by paying a few extra percentage points. Get off your damn high and fake horse and get this done.
People are seriously tired of your obvious games... at all levels.
HYPOCRISY LIES HYPOCRISY LIES HYPOCRISY LIES HYPOCRISY LIES!!!
The ONLY language the corporate owned republicans know!
Can we please just line these MFers up and convict them of the treason theyre guilty as hell of!!! Enough is enough!!!!!
Class warfare began with the Reagan tax cuts to the wealthy and should have been opposed when GW increased the tax break.
The ridiculous argument that the wealthy create jobs and therefore deserve more breaks than the middle class is absurd beyond logic. We need to go back to the Eisenhower tax rates.
If Businesses paid employees more there would be no need for higher tax rates or any government programs to compensate.
No they want to do away with the minimum wage end SS and medicare get rid of welfare and medicaid.
The only way you will get through to them is if you start killing them before they do it to you!
Rome all over again! Law of Large Numbers Wins!
Apples and Oranges. Most millionaires derive their income from "capital gains" or dividends from stock portfolios.
Those are taxed at a lower rate than regular income.
You can raise the capital gains tax rate to that of regular income, but there are many of us who work and also buy stocks that would take a hit from doing that. I am not wealthy, but I own some stocks and I don't want the government taking more from my meager earnings.
Honestly, I can't believe the Republicans took the bait! Oh my god! Now, with a move so bold and beautiful it makes me laugh, the Republicans have to defend their stance to prevent any tax increase on people who earn over one million dollars a year. A milion a year in Personal Income. Not corporate, not company, personal income. A million a year. And they fell for it, hook line and very large sinker. It's going to be a wild election year, I'll tell you that! next up, Republicans will come up with something equally obvious, that no Democrat will want to support... and then the fireworks really start.
Not in this economy. It keeps people from defaulting on their bills, it came from system they paid into. And without it, they would have to turn to welfare. Which is more desirable? But I am for having some type of temp work for extended benefits to keep work experience and confidence to keep looking for work.
Again, they are the working poor. No one is living easy under the poverty level. Would you rather tax them further into poverty and welfare?
No, not a handout, just a poor diet choice for a parent to make. But to keep it real..... so poor kids cant have candy?
Not if your parents are too poor to provide it. Why must you rob school lunch programs to make your fiscal purity point? Or do we only want the rich kids to succeed in school?
NO, its a country who has lost industry after industry overseas by corporate entities asking for the wealthy to help us fund some job creating in the United States. To create jobs for the unemployed so that they dont have to lose their homes and can still buy products to keep America's economy growing.
We extended the Bush Tax cuts for the 'job creators' because if we removed the 'uncertainty', the hiring would start...........tax cuts extended....NO HIRING
Then it was the debt ceiling, if we just get thh debt ceiling passed, then there will be less 'uncertainty' and then hiring begins. .....debt ceiling raised...NO HIRING
SO yes, lets take some of that cash they are sitting on and create the jobs they wont. America cant wait for 14 months for the GOP to do NOTHING for America's unemployed
I would. I like Ike. As he was leaving office - he told the American people to beware of the military and industrial complex. He couldn't have been more clear or more prophetic.
Corporate powers are ruling the country now - the very thing Eisenhower warned us about.
Wow. Such shortsightedness is astounding. If US businesses paid employees more, they would just go out of business quicker. Hard to compete with the Chinese slave laborers when it comes to employee wages.
So the next time you go out and buy the iPod, or any other product "Made in China" you might want to do some research and see what the employee who assembled it was paid. You might be ashamed to learn that you paid more for that one device than the worker assembling it makes in a month.
ooo sidney good idea.round the traitors up.they want a class warfare lets give it to them.wont be any servants to look down their noses at in a concentration camp.
It was the "military industrial complex" that he warned us about. It had to do with the corporations that made military hardware.
They used LBJ to get us into Vietnam.
Research Bell Helicopter and how they went from near bankruptcy to one of the largest aircraft producers in the world in just a few short years by convincing the Pentagon that helicopters were just the thing to use in Vietnam.
Gwad! The poor millionaires might have to pay the "alternative minimum tax". How scary! That damn tax catches me nearly every year. Is it that horrible? These goddamn business partners of the republicans must all be living on investments and paying the15% capital gains taxes and writing half that off in some invented way. Talk about class warfare. What about corporate and wealthy individual tax welfare?
jollyoldsoul1
Ok....... lets say you liberals take every last penny of everyone of those "rich" people. And take that money to hand out in social programs.
Nice use of completely untruthful and overboard hyperbole (another word for that is lying) to describe what liberals want with this. We don't want to take "every cent" and you damn well know that. We want them paying an equal percent as we do. Because it's right.
Oh if we do this they might go overseas? You mean like you did. You admitted here on the Vine that your career consists of helping the Chinese set up factories. You're part of the problem. No solution is going to come from your bias, that much is certain.
Really?-1739510
Yes they did....and it caused the creation of the Tea Party.
It was also a success as the government made a profit from it.
Yet another blatant untruth from the right. I think you're thinking of portions of Obama's stimulus that did in fact pay back and/or profit for the government.
TARP under Bush had very little oversight. He handled it like the no-bid contracts in Iraq. I.e., hundreds of billions went to select banks with no accountability on what they spent it on, and with no paper trail. Because, it was an emergency, we were supposed to just pass it and not look at what was in it.
That's also not what caused the Tea Party. The Tea Party was formed exclusively because Obama was voted in as President. Everyone in the "Tea Party" were perfectly ok with TARP as it came from Bush.
I am ever amazed at the ability of rich white guys to play the victim while simultaneously trivializing legitimate suffering. Having been falsely accused of being a "parasite" on these boards, I can tell you this is getting out of hand. I also know nobody is going to pack up and move because of a couple of percent increase in taxes. Nobody is going to completely abandon their job, their friends, and the place they call home because of a little increase unless they are already miserable. I also know that such an increase won't be the biggest concern when weighing whether to invest in the economy. Confidence will. And I doubt anybody, let alone a major political party, screaming "class warfare" is going to inspire confidence for investing in our economy. I can only hope after this stupid 2012 election is over we can put away the hyperbole for 10 minutes and give psyche of investors everywhere a chance to look at things objectively.
Wrong again.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program
"Of the $245 billion invested in U.S. banks, over $169 billion has been paid back, including $13.7 billion in dividends, interest and other income, along with $4 billion in warrant proceeds as of April 2010. AIG is considered "on track" to pay back $51 billion from divestitures of two units and another $32 billion in securities.[4] In March 2010, GM repaid more than $2 billion to the U.S. and Canadian governments and on April 21, GM announced the entire loan portion of the U.S. and Canadian governments' investments had been paid back in full, with interest, for a total of $8.1 billion.[5]"
Dumbass Americans are no smarter than a greyhound who chases after a mechanical rabbit.......the tripe BOTH parties spew is taken as gospel by too many intellectually underdeveloped suckers who then start all that dickmeasuring crap while the criminals who have access and control continue to destroy a once great nation......
maddog,
I've often said (offline) that the differences between the parties are deliberately amplified to keep us busy yelling at each other while both parties do whatever the heck they feel like while we're distracted. The media loves a good fight and everybody knows it. So if there is this much distraction and what we've seen lately with the debt fight not about the debt etc, I have to wonder what horrible things are being done behind the curtain.
You can spin his warning in the narrow sense. That's fine. But Ike warned the American people nonetheless. I think he would have included Halliburton, Blackwater, etc.
But I think Ike's warning was much broader (even if unforeseen) - I think he would have been appalled at this banking system and the gutting of America and her ideals that he had fought so hard to defend against fascism around the world.
He loved the democratic ideal enough to warn us about corporations.
You really should do some research. It was Rick Santelli and his reaction to the Obama Administration's mortgage bailout plan in 2009 that started the Tea Party movement, NOT Obama's election in 2008.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29283701/Rick_Santelli_s_Shout_Heard_Round_the_World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-Jw-5Kx8k
Really:
Stick around and read my posts. I don't and didn't insinuate a damned thing. You read YOUR bias into my statement. What I wrote was a fact. That's that.
Narrow sense? It is what it was, a warning about an increasingly growing military. It was applicable in 1960 as there were more government contracts for military expenditures than anything else.
We were engaged in a "cold" war with the Soviet Union at the time and it was looking like it would heat up.
THAT was Ike's warning. Nothing to do with corporations outside of military hardware.
Don't argue with me....argue with Google. Your bias is very obvious and your "facts" do not agree with reality.
Tax rates vs actual taxes paid.
Very interesting.
http://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24489
No, you missed the warning. "In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex." That's what Ike was warning about.
Who owns (as in 'acquired') Congress? The people? Or the corporations? Do you understand his warning?
You are almost there.....
It was the influence of the military industrial corporations over the Pentagon that he was worried about.
Which brings us back to Bell Helicopter. A company that was bankrupt, but lobbied the Pentagon to use helicopters in Vietnam. This was when we only had advisers there. They were given HUGE contracts, awarded by congress with Pentagon pressure.
You don't really think he was warning us about Coca Cola or Mattel do you?
Maybe this will help......
http://hnn.us/articles/869.html
Check your math. 450,000 million is 450 BILLION (with a B).
That makes a REAL contribution to resolving the national debt!
Want exemptions? Create jobs in THIS country, get an exemption.
Give to charity, get an exemption.
We got into this mess together, and together we can get out of it...
Atlasshrugging...you take offense when Tim points out that your math is faulty and then accuse him of hate because he referred to you, I believe, as "dumbass". Exactly how is that different from your using the phrase "idiot Presidents" in your rant? Perhaps you are a tad too sensitive or, indeed, are you the one expressing hate? But, the pot frequently calls the kettle black.
Really?-1739510, a question for you.
"Social Security Disability payments were an addition to the original SS act. They increased the payout without increasing the SS tax. So yes, they are a handout."
How is SSD a handout when the people who become disabled paid into the SS system, and what they receive is calculated the same as the retirement benefit? So, if you worked 20 years, you get the amount that is equal to that 20 years. That means if you would have been able to work until retirement age, you would have received even more from it.
That is why I had to question your remark that SSD is a handout. Please show us the facts that what you stated is true.
He was warning about buying influence. If that 'influence' undermined the well-being of our country and her people - then you can be goddamned sure that Ike would have included any such influence in his warning.
Corporate power looks and acts the same no matter what the industry. Global Corporations, though they may start here, hold no patriotism toward the US - they are about market domination and making more money.
Dave 735909
Get a friggen education before you tell me I'm full of crap. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. People like you are the problem with America. You spew your crap with no knowledge of the real world. Do you own a business? I'll bet you don't.
Lean Forward Dave, this won't hurt a bit
What's missing from the story is the REASON for a lower capital gains tax. Here's an example;
Suppose an investor put $100,000 into a long-term investment in 1970 and sold it 10 years later for $150,000. How much in taxes should they pay?
Well, most people would say they should pay taxes on the $50,000 gain at their normal rate - say 30%, for a tax bite of $15,000.
But here's the reality - because inflation over those 10 years was 53%, his $150,000 investment is now worth only $70,500 in REAL purchasing power terms and then to make them pay an additional $15,000 in taxes would net them $55,500 on a $100,000 investment. This would be an ACTUAL LOSS of $44,500. You could take any 10 year period over the last 40 years with this scenario and the results would be very similar – No REAL gain that would justify the risk.
Everyone recognizes that we need long-term investments in plant and equipment to provide for economic growth and jobs, but what investor in their right mind would make those long-term investments if they're going to lose half of the investment in 'REAL' terms?
PS - Here are two other things to consider with the capital gains tax rate;
1 - If someone invests long-term and then sells, the sudden gain upon sale would be taxed at a much higher rate because of the 'graduated tax scale' (The 'rich' pay a much higher tax RATE on income).
2 - Most of the 'rich' who get capital gains dividends have already paid about 35% taxes at the corporate level before the remaining profits are distributed as dividends, so the extra 15% in taxes at the dividend level means that the total taxes paid on the income earned ends up being closer to 50%.
Bottom line - Just how much do we want to discourage investments in economic growth and job creation? That's why businesses don't want to 'invest' in economic growth in America right now, and why the 'rich' people are investing in FOREIGN economic growth and jobs.
Obama's 'class warfare' rhetoric sounds 'fair' when he leaves out the details, but is it REALLY fair, and what would be the consequences for economic growth and jobs?
This is one of those "Duh" moments.
SS was set up to pay people once they reached the age of 62. There was no provision in the SS act for disability payments. Those were added later, but the collection rates were not increased to cover the added costs. If you are disabled at the age of 32, you begin to receive disability payments at age 32, not 62. Since disability payments were created after the SS act, AND the rates were not increased to cover the costs, then they are an unfunded mandate and are indeed a handout.
The same can be said for Survivor benefits.
If someone's spouse dies before the age of 62, they receive payments too. As do their children.
That's not the worst of it!
When I was in high school, my best friend received SS payments because his parents were on SS and he was a minor. Just because his parents were elderly, he got a payment every month. What did he do with it? He spent it on the usual things teenagers spend their money on.
So yes, there are plenty of "handouts" in the system, how you classify them depends on whether you are receiving them or not.
Who is 'we'? The investments are being made in plants and equipment, but those investments are not being made here IN the US.
Corporations are having record economic growth. But not here.
Just as your mantra is appreciated. But not here.
Really - You seem to skip some broad strokes.. How much of the AIG bailout of swaps made Banks whole enough to pay back their loans to the GOV? Sorry but the very Idealism you seem to defend makes it impossible to justify bailing out Private Industry.. Sorry you can't have it both ways.. I suggest you read Hank Paulsons "On the Brink" maybe he can enlighten you why it was completely wrong to bailout banks with no Oversight...
BTW - It was clearly cronyism on both Bank and Union bailouts, because one was lucky enough to rip off 401ks doesn't make them right...
Despite the fact that Immelt has sent scores of jobs overseas, and his company pays no taxes, and he guards billions offshore. Yet Obama rewards him by making him the Czar of Job Creation. What kind of shenanigans is Obama pulling and why??? Because he CAN, that's why. And the liberal/progressives can't see through his lack of loyalty to America. He has given biillions to Brazil to drill for oil, by a company owned by Soros. He is as loyal to America as Benedict Arnold. The GOP are obstrutionsts? Thank God. Is he TRYING to destroy our country with his quest for power and Marxist ideology? His entire Presidency has been nothing but garnering votes from the people he keeps dependant on the government, i.e. King Obama. Why oh why, oh why, did you people not vote for Hillary? At least we know she works FOR America.
Really; Eisenhower warned of the "military/industrial complex" meaning the War Machine in its entirety, not just the heightend expenditures due to the cold war. Haliburton (dick cheney) and Blackwater are privatized offshoots of the "military/industrial complex". Republicans want to privatize the military along with everything else for ONE reason only; it channels profits to the top...the investor/ruling class, the class that has been engaged in class warfare before there were terms like class warfare. No-one spoke of class warfare when Eisenhower warned us of these people. But they have always looked at the American public as a mass that needed to be controlled. Thats why after any castastrophe ie. 9/11, THEY want to clamp down on OUR freedoms and liberty. We are one step away from the FEMA concentration camps. It will be the "right" and the military that will do the final deed. Eisenhower warned us this would happen.
if the Billionares and Trillionares pay just 1 million in Taxes and that amount in Taxes will only bring in 450 billion then lets make them pay 10 million or more in taxes. That should do the trick.
Its time to end the Tax Cuts to the Billionares and Trillionares. That alone will generate 2 trillion dollars. If we back tax the Billionares and Trillionares it goes up to 4.2 trillion in back taxes and current taxes.
the DNC needs to open up the Presidential Primary so that Hillary Clinton can defeat Spineless Obama. Hillary will win if she runs in 2012.
And thats my Opinion.
This article is rich...
I don't know too many retirees, any needy folks on food stamps [and the like] that have their bought-and-paid-for Republican Congressman on a speed dial.
"but the collection rates were not increased to cover the added costs."
Please, show an example of the "added costs", and where you found that it costs more for this when, instead of it being paid out as retirement at a later time, the cost goes up because it is now for disability, before the retirement age was reached. And show us proof how the "collection rate" needs to go up because it is for disability and not retirement. Just because a person is collecting the SS they paid in earlier, and not later, does not change the "costs", when the process for getting it is the same for both. The person has to show the proof of disability or retirement age either way.
Really? 1739510
It was the "military industrial complex" that he warned us about. It had to do with the corporations that made military hardware.
They used LBJ to get us into Vietnam.
Research Bell Helicopter and how they went from near bankruptcy to one of the largest aircraft producers in the world in just a few short years by convincing the Pentagon that helicopters were just the thing to use in Vietnam.
funny you use that example because Chrysler made tanks and armored vehicles for the military in Vietnam and by the end of the 70s were almost bankrupt as were several other companies that made military hardware. If you study that time period there were several U.S. companies that had interest in Vietnam beyond military applications. A friend of mine that was over there would tell you about the oil wells off the coast,or the rubber plantations there. Ike was certainly talking about the regular industrial complex that had interest that went beyond military conquest or hardware.The banana republic wars like the one the U.S. fought in Nicaragua during the twenties and early thirties is a good example of that,U.S. Marines being used to put down a revolution that threatened business interest,exactly what Ike was talking about,but since this doesn't fit your Conservative mantra you tried dragging in LBJ and Bell in on it.
So now it's class warfare to ask those who make far more than I do to pay as high a percentage as I do. What kind of twisted logic is that?
Why not just have a completely regressive tax system, where the less you make, the higher percentage you pay. After all, the GOP would argue that lower income people use more government services anyway, so why not make them pay more than the wealthy?
The pot calling the kettle black! Heavens no, we can't make the rich biches go through the suffering that us plain folk are forced to endure (JUST KIDDING!). But the republithugs think they are so much better than everyone else-- when in reality they give plain folk a pain where the sun don't shine. I hope people vote with their brain engaged and not just vote with their heads stuck where the sun don't shine.
A CEO compensated with stocks pays the same tax rate as a waitress ...
'Job Creator' capital gains is currently taxed at a rate of 15%. That is the same tax rate as someone earning $8,500 to $34,500 in wages.
'Job Creator' investments are different than the working person's investments. 401k and IRA investments are taxed as ordinary income.
A CEO did not take any risks - he was paid with stocks instead of wages just so their income would qualify for the lower capital gains tax rate. Those capital gains did not come from an investment - they came from compensation for services rendered.
A special class of taxes for a priviledged class of income earner is ...
CLASS WARFARE!
"If someone's spouse dies before the age of 62, they receive payments too. As do their children."
How is that a handout, if the person who died paid that money into the system, and it now goes to the survivors? I gather that you feel that the money should be left in the system to go to everyone else? Wouldn't that be a handout to everyone else?
That would be the same thing as the person who died having a savings account, and after they die, instead of that money going to the survivors, it should be left in the bank for everyone else to borrow and use. Both accounts, the SS account, or the savings account were paid into by that person, and should be left to the survivors, not everybody else.
It is a handout because neither survivor benefits, nor disability payments are paid for. Only the original SS program is funded by SS taxes, nothing else.
It is no wonder that SS is paying out more than it takes in. It was never intended to pay out survivor benefits or disability payments.In fact, it was designed to be a piggy bank for the government as the life expectancy when it was enacted was 58 for men and 65 for women. It was thought that few people would even be able to collect on it.
Those entitlements were added many years AFTER the creation of SS.
They are indeed handouts and one of the reasons that SS is a Ponzi scheme and broke.
Chrysler went bankrupt because they made crappy cars. They were still making tanks, and do to this day.
The oil wells and rubber plantations were in Vietnam well before the US ever got involved. The French built those when Vietnam was a French colony.
Ike was not warning us about Coca Cola or Mattel and LBJ went along with the Pentagon and gave them their war. Bell Helicopter was rescued and made thousands of helicopters for use in Vietnam.
Trying to spin the truth as dogma only works on those incapable of finding the facts, and the fact is that industries outside of the military were not a concern.
BRING BACK THE WAR ON POVERTY!!!!
Oh wait is that class warfare? LOL
Just to add my final thoughts on this, in order to give full disclosure.
My parents receive SS. My father is 75 and still works, yet he receives full SS still. My mother retired 10 years ago and in 13 months had gotten back every penny she had paid into SS. So the past 9 years have been pure profit.
I have 2 sisters.
One is on disability and receives SS disability payments. She has never held a job nor paid into SS.
My other sister is a widow. Her husband was a Deputy Sheriff and a helicopter pilot. He died in Oct 2001 when his helicopter suffered a severe mechanical problem. His observer also perished in the crash. My sister has a son that turned 1 year old a week before his father was killed. Both my sister and her son have received survivor benefits since Nov 2001. She will continue to receive them unless she remarries and her son will receive them until he is 18.
Not that I want my siblings or anyone else to lose their benefits, I do realize that neither of them paid into the system, yet they receive full benefits. My nephew is only 11 years old, yet he has received full survivor benefits for the past 10 years.
You see, SS was set up to take care of those no longer able to work. It has evolved into something completely different. Yet the payment structure has not changed. So now that it's collapse is imminent, for you see, there is no SS fund. It has been raided by every president since LBJ. It is all part of the 47 trillion dollar unfunded mandate that we are on the hook for.
So, since I have been paying into SS for the past 35 years, I no longer expect it to be there when I retire, IF I ever retire. My family tend to just keep on working. It keeps you healthy and alive.
With this tidbit, maybe you might understand that there are millions of families out there like mine with members receiving benefits they never paid into. Add in the fraudulent collectors and it is not hard to see where we are headed.
"It is a handout because neither survivor benefits, nor disability payments are paid for. Only the original SS program is funded by SS taxes, nothing else."
Here is a clue for you Really?. The SS disability money the person gets, is the SS money they paid in. Get it now? It's not some other money from some other source. I can't even fathom where you get the idea that it is not from the SS fund. How do I know? Back in 07 I had my spinal cord squeezed down from it's normal size, to one third of that size from two disks in my neck, those disks the doctors removed, put donor bone in there place, and fused them together with a steel plate. Now I have one leg that has little feeling and I have very little control of, and the other I have lost the feeling in it from the knee down. I can barely walk with a cane, and sometimes my legs buckle on me without warning. I have a very bad balance problem when standing because the nerves are not controlling the muscles like they should. I also have nerve damage to both hands, leaving them with very little feeling.
I lost my job of 35 years because of this. I am now on SSD. The letters I received from SS, state that all SS benefits, be it disability or supplemental, comes out of the SS retirement money I paid in for those 35 years.
So please, don't try to BS me because you have a burr up your backside at the system, when I know better. That is why I asked you for proof to back up what you said. The proof you state reeks of the contempt you have for the system.
And I find it strange that you state, "You see, SS was set up to take care of those no longer able to work.", yet you don't understand that being disabled means just that...........no longer able to work, and the SSD are the same funds. You can call them retirement, supplemental or disability, they come from that SS money each of us has placed into the account. As for your father getting it and working at the same time? Go to the SS site and read up on it. It explains how that part works. It's there for all to see and read.
And again I will state. Why on Earth would that money NOT go to the survivors? The husband didn't pay into it for the years that he did, just so it will go to someone other than his own family if he died early in his life. As I stated before, that would be no different than having all his life savings taken from the bank, and given to everyone but his family. Giving it to someone other than his family, is nothing but a handout, and welfare to those who are not his family.
Several comments restored. Not these two:
Really?-1739510, BigAl Las Vegas, you're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
Hey, I like Really?-1739510. We may not agree but he's working things out as we all are. He's got some passion about him. Bring him back to the debate!
As I think about it. I think maybe more of this is Republicans trying to cater to the Wealthy and Corporations. These people are more of a resource for Republicans to win elections. In 2010 Republicans rolled up their sleeves for appearance (middle class) and said they were for the People who needed Jobs and the touted how they were going to deliver JOBS. Where are The Jobs? Where are these Wealthy People are insisting that their taxes just can't possibly be raised or it will destroy them? I am not this accepting that all these Wealthy People are thinking as Republicans say they are. Some maybe but not all. Republicans bring these People out to Speak to Americans. Could it just be Republicans and Lobbyist pushing this? So far many are coming out and saying raise my taxes it would be the Patriotic thing to do. Otherwise, You are playing Politics and trying the Con the People into believing your Rhetoric.
If Republicans believe he is waging class warfare why are trying so hard to disenfranchise American voters? Change the electorate votes, poll tax making people pay for id, closing drivers id places in democratic districts, making it diffficult to register to vote and end early voting. Doesn't this create Class Warfare when you are working so hard to keep them from voting and their voices from being heard? So making the Laws will help you win? Mostly likely it will backfire. It's sad you have to do these things to get elected. How about campaigning on your policies and ideas? How about getting out there and earning your votes? Do something! I guess Henry Ford said it best: Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it. What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them.
Why aren't Republicans trying to do something about it rather than just touting Class Warfare? Oh, it just might put another win in Obama's column. It's not about Obama it's about America. You will find men who want to be carried on the shoulders of others, who think that the world owes them a living. They don't seem to see that we must all lift together and pull together. You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do. Republicans when are you going to do something for America and not Party?
SS was set up to take care of people in their old age. It was NOT set up to take care of the handicapped, the survivors of deceased parents or anyone under the age of 62!
As for Obama and his "class warfare," the AP set the record straight, all but calling the man a liar.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44592106/ns/politics-white_house/#.TnkmHOyHga8
are there no poor houses? humbug
Lying and Crying......OBSTRUCTIONISM !
Is that all the GOP is good for ?
Time for the entire bunch get tossed in the gutter.
Is there a way to remove them NOW, it needs to be done now !
Typical democrat. Unwilling to entertain the fact that there are other, educated, well-meaning members of the same society who have different opinions from theirs. In fact, if you would cease talking and begin listening you might just realize the folly of your opinion. My experience is that most people who are eager to give away the assets of others do not hold assets of their own. This may be the case regarding wap3.
Amen Logan.
The fight isn't that millionaires should not pay more. The fight is to first not get in the way of real recovery, and second to find some real permanent solutions, as the chaos caused by these temporary government "fixes" only futrher damage our chance for real recovery.
As it sits, Obama only wants democrat voters to recover - teachers, government workers and union workers, as the small business nonsense he has included will help no one and is simply window dressing.
There you go Logan, listen to yourself. You sound just like the criticism you espouse. We want the cash and jobs to remain in and brought back to the US. Start suggesting ways this can be done and maybe it will filter it's way to where someone can get it done.
I would just like to see the rich and corporations pay the same percentage as myself and the REST of the middle class. At the other end of the spectrum, I don't like Earned income credit. If you only make $20,000 and you only paid $500 in taxes and you have enough deductions, give him his $500 back, don't give him $3000+ back. What kind of crap is that. That's why I support a flat tax. NO deductions, just a flat tax, maybe a slight progressive scale.
We have the means to rid ourselves once and for all of the GoTea. Out with every single one of them, funny a half century ago the Democrats would have been the same as the GOP in it's core values. My O my how things have changed. Buffet knows if he pays more now, he'll earn more later. Most of the Ubber Rich know it as well.......................
Exactly! And we should have the right to tax the CRAP out of them for doing so and give a 15% Tax rate to US Small Businesses....after all, they do account for 67% of all hiring. And they hire AMERICANS.
The Corporate GOP lackeys will stop at nothing to get the American worker in a race to the bottom on wages and benefits. Why does the GOP want American workers to be the same as China and India? I want us to be BETTER. How come you dont?
wap3
"Lying and Crying......OBSTRUCTIONISM"
There you go again taking what Obama does and spinning it to pretend it is the Republicans or the Tea Party or maybe even the little green gremlins doing it. Doesn't work.
Obama wants to play the same ol, same ol, game with fiddling with the tax code which all the politicians have done over and over and over. Where is his proposal to scrap the tax code and fix it once and for all which is what we need to get our jobs and enonomy back on the right foot.
Because apparently the Democrats get more benefit from hiding favors for corporate contributors. Since Republicans are proposing it and he is opposing it trying to distract from the idea with this latest repeat BS.
Logan C said:
"Typical democrat. Unwilling to entertain the fact that there are other, educated, well-meaning members of the same society who have different opinions from theirs."
**
Your first sentence contradicts the rest of your statement. Maybe you should stop looking down on people you mean to have discussion with.
Otherwise, the condescending attitude appears hypocritical.
The "rich" do pay their fair share. The million dollar earner is not the uber-rich, and Obama knows it. We all know that the top 1% earn 19% of the income and pay 37% of the taxes. No one can make the case that this is "unfair", so Obama is trying to fan the flame of class hatred when in fact they simply need to throw out the tax code as it is and make it a simple, fair system.
I don't hear simple or practical from Obama or his ilk, I hear "let's get the rich" and the implication is it is us vs them.
If paying double what the bottom 99% pay on your income isn't fair enough for you, what is?
I am not for bigger government, and what Obama is pitching is permanent taxes to pay for his temporary fix. There is no long term planning here, it is his desperate attempt to keep his job, and were he a CEO he would already be on the street.
When the top 1% own more than 80% of all the wealth, there already is class warfare.
anto capone, see my comment above about making up statistics.
You do realize the poor have medicaid the retired have medicare. The working class who pay for medicaid and medicare cannot afford health insurance that is where ObamaCare steps in. Those horrible Democrats want to take care of those who take care of everyone else.
SHAME SHAME on THEM!
Class Warfare is what we are fighting against!
Look it up, 40deuce, he's correct.
Good post
Well.....no matter how you've weighed in above or below....ONE THING TO AGREE ON BY READING ALL THE COMMENTS.
RYAN IS RIGHT!!
Reminds me of that 'Howard Johnson is Right!" scene in Blazing Saddles
Harumph! You know, I cant help thinking how much the Teabaggers remind me of the Slim Pickens' character in that movie.
Logan C Comment collapsed by the community
Are you kidding? Boehner says he got 98% of what HE wanted and you say Democrats won't listen? You people haven't budged on one point since this "hostage taking" began. You need to listen to yourselves for a change.
Your bullsh!t about "your experience" that "most people who are eager to give away the assets of others do not hold assets of their own." is just that, pure bullsh!t. Your statement is one of class warfare all on it's own, you a$$.
Wasn't the right deriding people for saying the phrase "class warfare" during the medicare fight? Why is it class warfare now and not then? Why wasn't it class warfare when these taxes were at higher rates in the 50's and 60's? This is nothing more than worthless hyperbole. We would all do better to recognize it and dismiss it no matter who's mouth it comes out of.
Tim, Seattle
RYAN IS RIGHT!!
...and this is relevant how?
What is wrong about having a reasonable discussion about tax rates and simplifying it -- which will raise the rates on people (primarily wealthy, but not all) that have been getting the benefits of an excellent lobbying effort. I understand the motivations for why all these politicians are loathe to seriously discuss a flat tax, but in the end, it's the only thing we'll ever get agreement on. The deductions have to be eliminated across the board or we're going to end up with still more unfair complexity.
article..."saying the proposal by President Obama may be intended to portray Congressional Republicans who resist it as being callously indifferent to the hardships facing many Americans.".... The GOP is boo-hooing, but no need to imply any intentions - the GOP is NO doubt INDIFFERENT to the hardships, etc.
Let's hope the voters turn out in 2012 to support President Obama.
Tim, Seattle
Haha good one! I haven't thought about that movie in so long. What a great flick! Mel Brooks is a comedic genius. Mongo was my favorite character. He was smarter than they gave him credit for.
Mongo only pawn, in game of life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10&NR=1
Mongo does good in this scene without even a line. Now that's skillful acting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNJla8WvoY&feature=related
Tim, Seattle - you asked how to bring the jobs back from overseas? Very simple, refuse to buy any product made overseas - only buy American made goods. BUT expect to and be willing to pay a higher price.
When the government has the ability to take away from one class and keep it for themselves (because we all know that the money NEVER reaches the intended target) we have problems.
This is nothing but liberal feel good speak. If ANY of you really think ANY of this money taken from the evil rich will suddenly fall at your feet in the form of pay increases or more benefits then you are just being foolish.
The rich will raise prices on everything to offset any new taxes on themselves. They pass those costs on to everyone in the form of higher prices, less hiring, more layoffs, you name it they will do whatever it takes to make their profits.
What we need in this country is a national sales tax to REPLACE the income tax. That way EVERYONE pays, not only the citizens but ALL those that purchase items in the country.
We could even do away with most of the IRS also. Less government and more revenue, it is a win win situation.
47% of All Americans pay LESS than ZERO in Federal Income Taxes. (They get back every penny they pay PLUS tax credits, which means they pay nothing and get a check back.) ALL of our federal taxes are paid by only 53% of taxpayers. In reality, about 80% of those who pay ZERO or less generally vote Democrat. OK, now how is it that the "rich" don't pay their "fair share"? It seems to me that we pay YOUR lazy-ass "fair share" of taxes also! LOL
So sick and tired of the BS, so they own wealth- THEY WORKED FOR IT! Lets look at some of the problems- no education, single parenthood, drug use you want me to continue. Look at the choices made by at least 50% of those who screams for more hand outs. They chose to leave school, to get pregnant as teenagers, to have multiple partners and not a stable family unit.Give a break,is easy to blame people for been successful- but who is truly going to look at why so many are failures. If you work for it is your, if you did not you are not entitled to it Period!
laughing all the way to the bank Rick? It is the % of ALL taxes paid in relation to income. When are you idiots going to understand that? And before you want to call ME a lazy-ass..I earned $80,000 a year when I worked, now retired and single. I paid plenty and I was happy to do it to live in the best (used to be) best nation on earth, before you baggers f**ked it up. Taxes now are lowest in over 50 years and you are STILL not happy.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Everybody is collapsing posts and arguing over something that Barrack Hussein hasn't even sent to Congress yet.
You know why?
Because the CBO hasn't graded this alleged "Jobs Bill" yet.
You know why?
Because Barrack Hussein can't get the numbers to work. He'll keep sending trial balloons out until he finds something that may appear reasonable. Just like they did with the Health Care Redistribution of Wealth hoax. They'll just keep jiggling the numbers until no one can understand them and then Nanny Piglosi will just reassure us by telling us we need to "pass the bill to know what's in it".
And all you Liberal Progressive buffoons will think it's gonna work. Just like TARP, as the banks are starting to collapse again. But I'm sure the European Union bailout will include a few HUNDRED BILLION Dollars to Barrack's friends over at BofA, JPM Chase and of course Golden Sacks. The $timulu$ was an abject failure. Wonder if they'll call the jobs allegedly created by the "Jobs Bill" the "shoveling it ready" jobs this time.
The worst part about all this is the taxes this administration collects, even if they do raise the brackets, will NEVER go to paying down the debt. They'll just spend it on more unsustainable entitlements and social programs to keep their socialist wet-dream and re-election hopes alive. And of course the "SUPER COMMITTEE" will be creating cuts and reductions in the FUTURE, which means, as usual, they will never happen as future Congress will just legislate over them. We will have a National Debt of nearly $17 TRILLION Dollars by 2013 when we add the $2.4 TRILLION Dollars from raising the debt ceiling to our current $14.5 TRILLION Dollar Debt. What will we do then? Raise it again? Do you think the rating agencies will wait that long? If you do, your delusion is only surpassed by your ignorance.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and Medicare Part-D are destroying our economy. But of course the Liberal Progressives won't do anything to fix them because they are sacrosanct to the social and economic justice stupidity of their socialist mantra. Again, contrary to what the class-warfare Socialist in our White House wants you to believe our Federal revenues have been rising since 1965. More interestingly, the revenues generated by the Bush tax cuts, excluding the post Dot-Com bubble recession and 9/11 that Bush inherited from Clinton (oops, I didn't mean to use one of Barrack Hussein's favorite blame words,,,inherited) EXCEEDED the revenues generated by the Clinton era of "irrational exuberance", seen here. Compare the same chart to spending, and the problem is so obvious even the poor little Liberal Progressives should be able to figure out the only solution is to cut spending as seen here. But of course they won't. They'll just want to blame it on the rich, corporations, tsunamis, Republicans, the TEA Party or some mythical car in the ditch.
The oncoming budget debates will be fun to watch. As the Liberal Progressives, especially Hairy Reed, will refuse any bipartisan effort by threatening to "table it" or claim it is "DOA". If not Barrack Hussein will just veto anything before he has to go on vacation again or spend more time campaigning than leading. And people wonder why our economy must finally collapse to purge our economy of the ignorance of Paul Krugman and Uncle Ben Bernanke's Keynesian stupidity.
By the way, IF you're interested you may want to look at the well explained problems we are facing in the following link.
http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/federal-spending-per-household
Now, I know as soon as you Liberal Progressives see it's from the Heritage Foundation you'll be screaming it’s biased. But if you look real close and squint your eyes you'll see the information is from the OMB, the Census Bureau, the CBO and other government agencies. I'm sure you'll believe it if it's from the government, right? They would never lie to you, right? I know it's not from Huff-N-Puff, MenialMatters, the Daily Kuss or the Sunday Comics, which I'm sure you all read, but take a chance. You may actually learn something.
Besides most of the pages have brightly colored pictures which I'm sure you like a lot.
Well maybe this change Obama promised may be a good one, We out number the RICH by a whole lot, this is our time to help make that needed change come 2012 so We better make sure that all these GOP stooges get their walking papers and make them see how it feels to be UN-EMPLOYED .................
Where are all these jobs that the rich have created with their tax savings?
Instead of class warfare I believe psychological warfare would be more appropriate.
"Class warfare" has been going on for DECADES now, but previously the aggressor was the "upper class". Now, the middle class is finally fighting back in a case of class RETALIATION. It's ABOUT TIME the little guy got smart and started punching back, and nothing could aid this country more in either the short, medium or longer-terms.
Tax cuts for the wealthy have NEVER aided the economy in a lasting way (if you disagree, name ONE SINGLE TIME they did), and never will. The rich just say "thank you" and keep it for themselves. That's EXACTLY how the economy reached the state it's in right now. Tax cuts for people who already have plenty of money is the dumbest idea ever conceived.
Nothing could be more obvious. The rich have BOUGHT and PAID FOR this GOP attitude and they expect nothing less. They want the middle class to slave away for meager earnings so corporations can rake it in. The GOP then wants to hand more free cash to the wealthy on a silver platter and they demand NOTHING in return.
I don't really blame the GOP for going about things the way they do, I mean that's how criminals operate. The people **I** can't stand are the idiot, middle-class conservatives who actually vote FOR this brand of thievery and disrespect.
BeaumontVegasBill,
Brilliant idea! I for one would be willing to pay a higher price if I knew my goods were coming from Americans. Even now, they couldn't be much worse than the crap we import from China. Remember how much "Made in America" meant in the old days? Let's bring that back!
hey Markmich! How do you like that section of the House Republican Plan for Job Creators that says:"
PROBLEM: VISA SYSTEM FOR HIGHLY SKILLED
Our current visa system is failing job creators who need access to a skilled and specialized workforce. America has always stood as a beacon of opportunity to the best and brightest from around the world and the nation has benefitted from their contributions. Yet today, our visa system is not addressing our economic needs.
Leading high-tech companies in America are struggling to hire qualified employees while the government visa system sends home highly skilled workers educated in America’s universities."
How do you like that they do not want to fund the renovation of our schools, the teaching of skills for high tech employment to kids or displaced workers, but prefer instead to have the Visa system modernized and expedited so the jobs aren't just created overseas, but that non-US citizens can come here to work and fill the gap they created with failing to fund what America needs to compete.
That's the beloved GOP for ya! How does it feel to be screwed folks?
Republicans have been touting class warfare for years. Fox's Bill O'Reilly has been selling books, T-Shirts, Coffee Mugs, and all sorts of things making a profit off this mess they created. They knew that their policies would create class warfare eventually. This is why they are out in front now talking and touting about it. They created it.
Somehow assaulting teachers and firefighters is patriotic but taxing those who make more then 250K per year is class warfare. I'm sorry more then 1mm/yr. Next step more then 1bb/yr is class warfare. Why should our tax brackets end at 250k? You want to avoid over taxing small business owners? Is the owner of a business that brings in $10mm/yr after deductions a small business owner. I really don't understand how ppl who bring in 60k/yr will fight tooth and nail against tax increases on people who pay less then they do in taxes yet make more in a year then they will in ten. "There is such a thing as class warfare... we started it and we're definitely winning" WB
Some republican I work with has 4 kids and pays NO TAXES. I am a liberal with no kids and pay way more than my fair share. It has nothing to do with party. You are incorrect.
Obama is nothing more than the modern day Maximilien de Robespierre.
Substitute the "rich" for the aristocracy and you will notice the similarity.
So, let the reign of terror begin!
That's a bunch of crap. I was employed in IT for 20 years and my job went to India. Cheaper labor. Should we give my former employer a tax break?
I don't pay taxes either. Have not had to in YEARS in fact.
All thanks to those deductions. The guy you work with is also taking advantage of the 4 deductions he has, and probably some others.
I don't have any dependents and if I can avoid paying taxes, so can you.
This sounds like more divisive class warfare for political gain. We don't need to add yet another special rule to the tax code - we need to fundamentally rework it and remove as much complexity as possible.
Until the tax code is simplified, the very rich will always be able to avoid most taxes because they have the means to hire armies of tax attorneys to position their money so it isn't taxable, and they have the influence to ensure the tax code has the loopholes they want.
The President took an oath to protect and defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic this one just appears to be wearing a suit pledging his/her allegiance to Grover Norquist, take em down Mr. President!!!!!!!!!
If you like Jon Stewart you will love this: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-18-2011/world-of-class-warfare---warren-buffett-vs--wealthy-conservatives LEADS INTO http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-18-2011/world-of-class-warfare---the-poor-s-free-ride-is-over
Going through and reading the post I have noticed it mostly the Democrats against the Republicans or vise versa. What is this going to accomplish....nothing. It should be we the people against the government. The government has screwed us long enough. It is obvious neither side can run this country, they are acting like little children and they have for a long time. We the people are divided and we have played right into the governments hands and we are now arguing over which team is better. They have us where they want us DIVIDED and that make us we the people WEAK. We are their employers they are not ours!
oh, Ryan is "RIGHT" - he might be an nonobjective RETHUG ass-hole, but he is DEFINITELY "RIGHT" - but being "RIGHT" doesn't imply being CORRECT -he's just being a rightwingnutreligionazi...he can't help himself (and he apparently can't help anyone ELSE either.)
Whatever taxes you want to call them, I agree to return to the Tax Codes that were in place during Clinton's Administration.
It will cost me more, but I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA, TOO
markmich banned, rereg of RogueAmerican.
No class warfare is when you fight for cuts to programs for the middle class and seek to exempt the rich from the sacrifice.
Without the rich the only employer left is the government. Is that what you really want? Ask the Russians how that worked for them.
logan,The rich are not hiring in this country, GET IT!!!!
Actually, if you ask the average Russian now, they will tell you without hesitation that their quality of life was much better under Soviet rule.
So if one were to look at your comment it must mean that since we enactedt hebush tax cuts that a bunch of hiring has occured?/?
wrong the rich got richer and no jobs were created.
as far as theignorant comment that 48% dont pay taxes thats a bunch bs we all pay gas taxes food taxes lodging
you need to really take a look at what is occurring its not good and the gop is behind most of our problems. protecting the rich is not what made this country great .The rich dont create jobsthey horde their wealth its what made them rich in the first place.. it people like me who have small businesses that have 10- 20 people working for us who create jobs. Want me to hire more give me a tax break incentive for every newperson i hire
Logan, the Russians are doing just fine now. A growing middle class, a shrinking lower class and a growing rich class. I think they got it figured out.
Good one Logan, except the jobs are in China and India. Try again. No one is saying remove the rich from the planet. Get them to pay their fair share. And don't give me this nonsense about the rich paying more than their fair share. We're not comparing how much they pay versus how much we pay in mere dollars. Asking your middle class to pay 30% of their income is a hell of a lot more impacting to daily life than asking the rich to pay 17% on $1,000,000. Yeah so the tax break was provided so big corp can create jobs. Where is it?
I always thought that the more I make, the more I give. In this case, it seems once I make a million plus, I get to enjoy not only my success, but a sudden boost in wealth from a senseless tax break as well.
Logan- This what everybody is complaining about, rich have all the tax breaks, sitting on a butt load of cash, and because Congress and the President can't seem to get their collective crap together, NOBODY is Hiring.
Please give us the number. The number of jobs the rich Wall Street traders, the rich U.S. bankers, the rich lobbyists, the rich politicians, etc., have bestowed on the U.S. public.
Arrogant, rude, badmouth downgrading of anything or anyone trying to help anyone but the rich is just cheapshot bullying.
Logan C:
Please think again. You don't have to be wealthy (or "rich") to be an employer.
Logan C.
What is the matter with the only employer being the govt, everyone would be working for the country and not to make money by using blood metals (like blood diamonds, except from the Congo and about 100 times more in use)/
Essentially, the Republican plan is to return society to an era like the one our ancestors fled in Europe in order to have freedom and opportunity regardless of birthright. Disportionate taxation on the poor masses in Europe to support the lifestyles of high flying officials on the throne, the landed gentry and nobles caused desparate people to seek something new. Fast forward to present day America and forces are working overtime using spin, lies, and scare tactices to return us to an era where the politicians have enabled the new gentry and nobles ("entreprenurial class") to control government and people using their riches as trump cards (no pun intended). The Republicans will make sure the uber rich avoid having to pay their fair share of taxes since payback for a job well done will make them charter members of the uber rich sooner or later.
Portland Guy,
You mean when Obama pushed Obamacare down our throats to destroy Medicare and thereby try to destroy the aged and disabled and let GE get away with paying no taxes?
if the rich aren't hiring, why did the number of millionaires jump by 30% in 2009? More people are becoming rich than ever. Becoming rich is a good thing, as a rising tide raises all ships. Why isn't the president talking about raising all ships?
Why does he favor only government spending and government and union workers? Building a bigger dependent class along with a bigger ruling class only gets us more failure.
Very well put Portland.
Logan C, the boot licking is embarrassing. Cover your shame please. Try to be a man.
Practical Libertarian, please see all of Central and South America for the answer to your question. You obviously haven't seen the numbers explaining the extreme imbalance in income growth between the top 2% of income earners and everyone else. All ships are definitely NOT rising.
JH
Really? School breakfast and lunch is a handout? Unemployment checks in these desperate times is a handout? Obviously, you have never been in a position to need a hand up or you wouldn't even question these "entitlements".
When my son was in school(just a few years ago) we lived in a very well off school district and I believe ALL school lunches were subsidized and you had to be at poverty level to receive free anything. Really, you have a problem with feeding children? I just find this incredulous.
Maybe you should volunteer at a food bank or soup kitchen so you see, and I mean see and understand the cycle of poverty and what keeps people there as well as the success stories of those who have broken the cycle.
I dare you.
The Republicans act like the wealthy are the ones losing this war. After the middle class has been nearly decimated how dare it ask for a little share of the wealth back. It is losing this war badly after years of attacks and they don't want it to gain anything in this war. But how dare we call it what it is, Class warfare. I feel so bad for those who might have to give back just a little of their huge gains they got financially from the middle class.
There was a a time when the middle class and the wealthy both benefited from the poor being able to secure a good living wage and move up in the world with little financial problems. That time would be called evil socialism by the Republicans because of all of the government spending invested during and after wwII that just so happened to create the strongest economy in the world at that time. When people can get a fair shake and decent wage they are happy and productive. Where did it all go? to Republican and conservative economics chipping away at middle class rights and gains.
I am still baffled as to how anyone who is not wealthy thinks the Republicans stand for them. One thing many of these poor who support Republicans say does ring true.."you can't fix stupid"
sigh
Logan C
They aren't saying to get rid of the rich, their just asking them to pay their share... and most of them would agree to it. Russia? Are you serious? What a foolish statement.
China has no middle class. They have the dirt poor and the filthy rich. The solution to making America competitive with China is not to make America more like China.
Free breakfast and lunch, by definition, is a handout. Maybe their parents should be responsible and pack one for them. A bowl of cereal before catching the bus is very economical, as well as a peanut butter sandwich and an apple for lunch. The very least we should expect of a parent is to feed their kids.
Unemployment is funded, I believe, for 26 weeks. Any checks handed out after that is a handout.
If the school lunches in a wealthy school district were subsidized, then you just gave an example of government waste. People for the most part put themselves in position to succeed or not. Those who are in poverty generally are less educated, addicted to drugs, not married, had kids way too young, and or got in trouble with the law at an early age.
Myself, I do not possess a college degree. I have learned a trade. I am happily non-union. I keep myself employed by making myself valuable to my employer. When he makes money, I make money. I never wasted my time or money on drugs. I have a clean record. I keep my debt level low and managable. I didn't knock anybody up, therefore I have no child support to worry about. If people worried more about keeping themselves employable and keeping money in the bank, and less about trying to knock down those who have more or how much they can get from the government, there would be a lot less poor.
... here's another, unfortunately more common and accurate definition: it's the difference between starvation and survival. Since you seem more concerned about your tax dollars than your fellow man, how about thinking of it in terms of protecting your investment in public education ... study after study has shown that children learn much more effectively when they start the day with a solid meal. Yes, you can surely find instances of waste in the program, but in these economic times, you'll find a lot more where this is the only nutritious meal or meals these children get. Personally, I'd rather we spend the money on food for hungry children who have no other means rather than subsidize oil companies .... but that's just me.
It's not just you. Government shouldn't be subsidizing any industry. If kids learn better with food in their belly, then their parents (or parent) should be thoughtful enough to feed them. It is the basic responsibility of the parent to feed their kids. If they can't do that, then their kids need to be put into foster care.
You really shouldn't be judging others charity. You don't know what anybody gives, nor should you. It's not governments responsibility to be a charity. If government was so concerned about the well being of others, it would not be threatening to eliminate the charitable donation tax credit.
More gov't - putting kids in foster care for being poor? That is so 1950s - and children's homes are too expensive, they found out. Foster care - not enough people are doing that, just won't work. But having worked with kids - maybe 25% should be in foster care until their parents get it together.
Anyway, as regards a middle class in China, National Geographic excerpt:
..."The past decade has seen the rise of something Mao sought to stamp out forever: a Chinese middle class, now estimated to number between 100 million and 150 million people.
Interesting article, certainly not all roses there, but they are headed up rather than down - point made that they have tried to extend home ownership in 10 years' time, that took the US 50 years.
What do you people consider rich? No one has defined that here.....someone that makes 100k or more? How about 500k or more? I know 5 people who were middle income earners that now earn more than 500k simply due to hard work and fulfilling a need in society. Does this mean they will be forced to give more of their earnings to help those who are struggling? I have no problem with this because they would do it anyway but everyone in the US has the same opportunities and I hardly think that the economy has completely choked off the chance for others to make this kind of money. After all 3 out of 5 of them made this income after 2008.
You people are insane!
How old are you people?
"Lets tax the rich because they are not hiring."
WHAT? Seriously.... WHAT?
How in your psychedelic mind is that going to force the rich to hire? Last time I checked the government does not produce anything, has nothing to sell, but it's prices for service are enormous.
This is nothing but jealous, self righteous, and ignorant thinking. It may make you feel good until you get your next paycheck, or a lack of one.
The Liberals are the Party of "NO"
They want to destroy the middle Class and Tax everyone with a job to pay for the people who do not want to work and pay taxes.
They are all Anti-American and need to be swept from office with a steel broom that sweeps deep to get the roots of Liberalisn out of this country
Landrew That is a lie ask them is they want to go back to the days of Lenin. i think you will be surprise at the response.
Carl Hubert...crawl back under your rock. Do the country a big favor and stay there. I hope this is not your real name...dangerous thing to do when you spout ignorance such as you have.
Indagroove,
it is not jealousy,
it is being cheated around every corner for a buck.
We all can't be rich, don't want to be (honestly who would want it?) We work hard but there is much more to life than rich. But when the jobs are outsourced to other 'cheaper' countries, when we can't even count on our food being safe for our kids, when our water is being polluted for riches, our environment destroyed for fortune.
Rich people who don't love this country should leave.
I would also like to say: it was a temporary tax break for the rich so they would hire. They didn't.
I just want republicans to realize this country went through wars where no one stepped up to support the war effort with taxes to support our troops. Wars are expensive in the extreme and instead of republicans caring about helping out Bush was giving more tax breaks to his big business cronies. We have to have solutions and the GOP will constantly stand against them. They will stand against them when they are in office or not. The tea party are gullible fools or greedy republicans who will be happy to see the rich and only the rich in power. Taking everything for themselves.
So, just to be clear, it wasn't class warfare when Dumb-uwa and the Repubs spent $2.4 trillion on tax cuts that mostly benefited the top 20%? You just cannot fix stupid. I am all for splitting up this nation. Let's give these dumb a$$ lemmings the south and they can feel free to let the rich extract all the wealth and resources they want. They can drink all the polluted water and breathe mercury and lead.
You are incorrect. How could you possibly think this? It makes absolutely no sense at all. This is what fox news and Rush fill your heads with.
maz - wow. way to call a guy out for exercising his right to free speech. How un-American can you get? Maybe you want to push this topic a little further to the left comrade? Maybe the politburo can sanction your posts next time and see if it fits the party structure.
Absolutely....Its the Rich Corporate NO Class against the Middle Class. I can't completely blame the Rich though. After all who would they rather be? Times are changing....Maybe Unions across the board is what this Country needs. Take a little from the top and let them sweat a little.......
Thank you for making Ryan's case.
Yeah, well Lazaro they tried this "share the wealth", from each according to their ability, to each according to their need", in the old Soviet Union. It didn't turn out too well.
The one point you Obama "volunteer" posters are ignoring is that the ultra rich can find much friendlier places to live rather than stay and pay your way. They can also take more jobs with them, but Obama's people may not want jobs anyway.
Obama certainly has done everything to hinder job creation except for the added government jobs attached to his power grab for Washington digging more and more into our lives.
Paul Ryan and the Republicans signed a pledge not to raise taxes, and they rather die than risking their jobs against that pledge.
And they always talking about Obama not working out. They are NOT helping us with that kind of crap.
Shaking you have got that completely backwards. In the USSR only the privileged connected families enjoyed a comfortable life and used "communism" to control people. The real comparison lays in the right-wing agenda to create a permanent ruling class and the Communist bosses in the USSR. Everything the Democrats do is aimed at making it possible for someone with initiative to improve their situation through education, smart fiscal decisions, and balanced regulation to avoid poisoning people and creating monopolies. Everything that the people born into privileged sinecures are threatened by. Call it class warfare, call it whatever you want, but we are on the correct side of a bright line and deep down you know it's true.
The republithugs are making this country a two-caste nation. The rich are getting richer and the middle-class are becoming members of the "poor" class-- and the republithugs don't give a continental dam.
Agreed Susie a caste system is their ultimate wet dream. They are having some success so far.
Susie I know it's weird to mention this here, but I have been watching the Battlestar Galactica series from the 2000's on Netflix and they actually did a really good job portraying how extreme stresses on society can cause that very problem. They also address other issues, but usually in a more roundabout fashion... I digress.
Either way I like the way you think :)
The Corporations are rich because of the American Worker. The Corporations could not have gained if it had not been for the American Worker. So for gratitude, they took the jobs overseas.
Until import tax is very high and then the American citizen refuse to buy the crap they bring in. When we no longer buy the goods produced overseas then we might see some changes. But, until then don't buy. I am sure every American today have enough clothes, water bottles, shoes, etc that we would not have to buy for a long time.
I have noticed a new theme here. The rich are going to take their money and jobs and leave. Well they have already sent the jobs overseas. Time for them to join them. What a joke, like they are going to go live in China. Tax breaks should only be for individuals that invest in America, everyone else 80%. That way we can avoid the tariff wars.
It seems to be that, lately, it has been the Obama Fan Club moving their jobs overseaes... GE, for example.
So now everyone wants to start complaining about everything being made overseas AND how no one here is hiring.
However, all of your solutions to that problem involve taxing the heck out of those that could hire but are not.
Now what makes you all think those same people, now paying more taxes are just going to get up and start hiring you people?
Honestly, who here thinks that?
Indagroove, wannabe's should leave with the rich, write back and tell us how well they treated you, tell us how loyal they are to you.
Lets see you give them your blood, sweat, and tears and then tell you they have a great pension for you in your later years.
Write and tell us how your golden years are.
Then you will be where we are.
Indagroove,
If anyone is making hiring decisions based on how many loopholes they can exploit this quarter, there is something seriously wrong with their business model. If any business is making hiring decisions based on how well they can lobby to keep their tax rate low, there is something seriously wrong with their business model. It's time for the fat cat to have a heart attack.
Heres what I surmised after reading most of the responses...oh and I didn't vote for Obama.....I didn't vote for any Republicans...Personally I believe both parties are corrupt beyond salvation, as is most of Congress, The States Politicians and the 2% richest in this Country. Now....It appears a lot of you are illiterate, watch Maury, Springer, Steve Wilco, Dancing with the Losers, and American Idol. You believe Hollywood is a real place and you personally know most of the idiots who claim to be actresses and actors. You talk incessantly on cell phones (that will and probably already has started to kill you from cancer), You belong to the Legions of Losers known as Texters. You haven't a clue about anything your kids are up to and dismiss the fact that they suck in school. The unemployed don't stand a chance because thousands of immigrants from Asia and The Middle East are scarfing all the good jobs. Thats because your 20 and 25 year old skills are useless in this selective job market. You whine everyday because Corporate America supposedly sent all the good jobs to China. I don't blame them. They had no choice. You hate Unions because Corporate America brainwashed the underachievers into believeing they weren't needed. Thats why those left working for the remaining Unions have good wages and benefiits. You Union bashers will have none of that. So folks you sheeple are in denial. The 9% unemployed better hope their is an opening in the "Social Industry".....You figure that out.......
. . .
About that: Goddamn! Thats telling 'em. I agree 100%. Mealy mouthed son-a-bitches!
My question is: At what point does the Mainslime Media, stop printing stories like-
Yes, we know...IF the President has a plan, the GOP will criticize it , or call the President something derogatory!
Where is the story here again!??!
Scott,
They used a hot button term. The media can't help themselves. The republicans know they can manipulate the media in this way. (The democrats too, for that matter.) Nothing more than an attempt to grab headlines to make this issue blown out of proportion. Now everyone will be arguing emotionally rather than rationally. It's like the Westboro Baptist Church protesting dead soldier funerals to make a statement about gay people.
let me get this straight the republicans are accusing the democrats of class warfare? What planet are they from? I am convinced they are Klingons..really,determined to take over our planet and turn us into slaves...All they want is more more more and we get less and less. Our kids can't read they know nothing of our history..our roads are crumbling and yet BMWs are advertised on TV who are these people?
Your kids can't read because the school system has been turned into a social program. The school district where I live gives free before school care, free breakfast, free lunch and free after school care to "poor kids." This interprets to illegal immigrant children. Wait, I'm not through. They also have a doctor on staff to treat these kid's colds and a dentist on staff to make sure they can chew the free food. We also have a school district administrative building that could double for a school but is just for the school board and these give-away programs. THAT is why your kids can't read. My district may be more liberal than others but I would bet my last buck that most if not all districts throughout the country are essentially the same. If we simply refocused our schools on education and not welfare all of our kids would be better educated.
Logan. I don't know what part of the country you are from but it sounds like you have a problem with illegal immigrants. I can appreciate your frustration with that but the illegal immigrants are not a problem everywhere.
I am far from convinced there is a single problem with education but I suspect the number of unmotivated students is a topic that should be on the list in most schools. As to the cause of that problem I wish I knew the answer. The few conversations I have with teachers suggest many students see little adverse consequence from poor grades.
Trying to make this into a conservative vs. liberal debate may be a major disservice to children who hardly need to be taught to blame others for their problems.
WOW! What a great school! A dentist so toothaches don't keep the kids from learning. A doctor on staff to keep kids healthy and from passing illnesses on to others. Food? OH NO! I am 54, free lunches was going on even long before MY school days. You must live in the inner city. FREE before school care and after school programs so their lazy parents can actually hold down a minimum wage job is my guess. Am I correct on that? My schools always had a nurse on staff in the Jr Highs and High schools and nurses that visited the grade schools. If we focused on creating good paying jobs for the parents all our kids would be better educated and because there would be more good paying jobs, the money would be there too.
Logan C said:
"Your kids can't read because the school system has been turned into a social program. The school district where I live gives free before school care, free breakfast, free lunch and free after school care to "poor kids." This interprets to illegal immigrant children. Wait, I'm not through. They also have a doctor on staff to treat these kid's colds and a dentist on staff to make sure they can chew the free food. We also have a school district administrative building that could double for a school but is just for the school board and these give-away programs. THAT is why your kids can't read. My district may be more liberal than others but I would bet my last buck that most if not all districts throughout the country are essentially the same. If we simply refocused our schools on education and not welfare all of our kids would be better educated."
#7.1 - Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:45 PM PDT
----------------------------------------
Advantages of Public Schools Compared to Homeschools
Advantages of Public Schools Compared to Private Schools
www.educationbug.org/a/advantages-of-public-schools.html
It IS what the baggers and the wealthy are afraid of, identifying the truth of the Republicans (Grover Norquist) entire strategy for the past 15 years, class warfare. It's nice that the Republicans have put a name to it finally, class warfare.
If you can name it, you can tame it.
Class warfare is entirely about telling those that have the power, the money, and the will that we, the lower or middle class, have had enough tax cutting, enough taking away my benefits, enough taking away my expected raises (let alone cost of living increases) for earning you more and more and more money than you ever dreamed of.
This same thing happened 70 years ago during the Great Depression. All those that had money had to change their way of thinking and doing business in order for the nation to move forward.
Progressive tax works WHEN the credits to reduce taxes for GOOD and RESPONSIBLE employers are attached; unfortunately, companies like Walmart have "used" the system to avoid being responsible resulting in government having to step in to ensure a "safety" net for the less fortunate.
Finally President Obama has grown a "Set". Yeah!
Take the Fight to "them" (you know, the GOP). It's the American Military Way!
Hey Teabaggers! Hey Reagan Democrats! Hey! even you so-called Independents!
All the Richest top 5% of these phony so-called Americans want to do is preach
Beer. Baits, and Guns to you, so you'll send your precious Sons and Daughters
to be used as "Cannon-Fodder", in their illegal and immoral Foreign "Sin-Wars".
They (the GOP and Republicans) don't give a "tinkers damn" about you.
They just want to make Money off the Blood of your Kids,
which they then Hide in their illegal off-shore tax-havens,
their secret Swiss Bank Accounts, and their phony-exclusive Tax Loop-Holes.
Vote a straight Democratic "ticket" come this November 2012,
and send the Republican Party back to the dung-heap of History,
where they rightfully belong.
You'll be glad you did!
ps. Is this a Great post, or what?
I plan on voting the exact opposite. Thank you anyway.
They're both whores. (both sides)
Oh-you must be one of those Republican Neandrethal, Knuckle-dragging Teabaggers. You have my deepest symphathies. :o)
BO is promoting class warfare, and nothing else. The more he talks, the less sense he makes.
"If ya love me, get my bill passed!!!"
Uhmmm...why? So you can find more Solyndras and more turtle tunnels?
Spoken like a true high school drop out.
sorry , you don't think too well.
It's amazing how profane and ugly the liberal is. But I'm betting face to face they are mice.
Gee Time nice of you to name call and bully,
Perhaps you should follow your own advice
You would not want to be a hypocrite would you?
What is truly ugly and evil is a conservative Time to say NO MORE. Face to face? Hell I'm 6'3 - the last thing I'd fear is a noodle spine conservative.
Have another beer.......
Scott_TOO,
If you don't think there is a problem with our education system, you must be a recent product of it. Those of us who were lucky enough to get our basic education before the Federal Department of Education was created to screw things up are indeed lucky. The states did a much better job and didn't give the Unions lifetime jobs whether they could teach or not.
Now here's the "how it works". We're a (2) Two Party system (rightly or wrongly).
kind of like a back & forth ying-yang symbol, or a grandfather clock pendulum,
or a giant ocean liner, but enough metaphors.
Anyway, the evil Darth Vader wannabe Dick Cheney & his chimpboy George Bush
took our "Ship of State" (the ocean liner metaphor) so Far to the Right,
that it almost fell off the End of the Earth, into a sick & weird Bizzarro World.
Now it's true Obama is taking us to the Left, but he Needs another
Four More Years to get our Clock Pendulum metaphor just back to the Middle,
and to of course "Colon Cleanse" the Nasty-Horrific-Hideous Effects
of the evil Bush/Cheney regime.
Plus by voting for Obama, whether you believe him or Not,
you'll be p*ssing-off and p*ssing-on Republicans and Teabaggers,
and let's face it that will be really Fun.
Can you Imagine how bent out of Shape republicans and Teabaggers
wil be if Obama gets Another Four (yes! 4) More Years.
God, they'll "Wet their Panties", heck they'll "Soil their Panties".
Wouldn't you Agree?
it is so sad that you simply reguritate what you hear on fox, etc. it is simply not true that teachers can not be fired. it is NOT fact. having unions, and tenure specifically, means that there has to be proof of you not doing your job to be let go. that is it simply. it means that if you give the mayor's kid a bad grade he can't get you fired. if you don't go to the "right" church in town you can't be fired just for that, if the principal wants to hire his kid, they can't just fire you without cause and give it to them. that is actually what it means. there has to be cause. unions and teachers have been vilified by the gop because gop want to take away workers rights, lower wages and give employers, corporations all the rights. they want to push wages in the entire country down and you agree with them. they want to break unions so that they can't give money to help Dems. it is very obvious. they tell people these tales so that people will be angry and side with gop. so in order to do this they scapegoat unions and public workers and try to get other workers to be jealous and blame them for things that they haven't done. wish you could do some independant research and see what I'm saying is true but usually people will not change their preconceived notions no matter what evidence is given to them. they just want to watch things that say what they already believe. so I guess I shouldn't bother. it is very depressing that the loudest, most obnoxious people that repeat lies over and over again seem to be believed. too bad facts don't seem to matter to many people anymore. unions and public workers aren't the enemies. they are middle class workers that the gop/tp have decided is going to be their scapegoat so they can get people to focus on them as the enemy instead of the real people who damaged our economy, wall street bankers.
What?
No more "chit-chat"?
Is it something I said?
How about commenting on my brilliant
Psycho-Political-Spiritual Observation (#8.12), just above?
In that post, I shine my "Spotlight of Truth"
on all Republicans and Teabaggers and show to themselves,
their own darkened hearts and warped-minds.
ouch!
It's quite alright, even encouraged by up-votes, to call Tea Partiers "knuckle-dragging neanderthals". However, any comment against Obama/Dems, whether childish name-calling or polite, merited criticism, is collapsed by the community (as my first comment on this vine was). I said it before, and I will gladly say it again. The liberal mantra is: free speech only for those who agree with you. Pathetic, brainwashed hypocrites (GASP! How DARE he call us that??!!??!).
Enjoy it while it lasts, liberals. You've got about another year and 4 months until a Republican (or other party that isn't called "Democrat")replaces your beloved Obama.
Its fine to give out massive tax breaks for the richest people, and let their income climb at historic rates.... but the second you ask them to pay THE SAME percent as the rest of the country its class warfare? Hah.
Seriously, anyone who makes less then $250,000 a year and votes Republican, is voting against their own self interest. All you idiots should be ashamed of yourself.
Somehow, whenever the GOP calls something "class warfare," it inadvertently just means "oh @!$%#, they caught us again."
The only "fair" income tax is a flat tax. All Americans benefit from living in this fine country. Therefore, we should ALL pay our fair share of income tax. This can only be accomplished through a flat tax. All Americans should pay the same percentage of their income in tax. This means rich and poor alike. There should be no loopholes allowing the rich to avoid tax and there should also be no tax code which exempts the poor from paying any income tax. The same pertains to businesses and corporations. All should pay the same percentage of their income as tax. No deductions for homes, kids or anything else. This approach, accompanied by massive reductions in government programs and spending will bring this country back to where it should be. Welfare should come from family and churches just as it did before FDR's failed experiment in welfare. The United States is a country that is surely a melting pot as it should be but we are also laughed at throughout the world as being a country of easy marks, willing to pass out money to all who would cross our borders with an open hand. This must stop.
Sounds like a good start Logan.
A flat tax would affect the poorest Americans FAR more than it would the wealthy. We'd see the poverty rate skyrocket if we implemented a flat tax.
While I agree that all Americans, and I mean ALL AMERICANS should have the same % of tax, I can easily disagree about FDR. FDR is one of our best presidents, way better than JFK and definitely way better than Reagan.
You're an idiot logan. The poor HAVE NOTHING TO TAX. The bottom 50% of the country owns less than 1% of all the wealth. All you'd do is hurt their quality of life more for nothing.
I like a national sales tax but for some reason the GOP doesn't want to go there.
Yes and I'm sure the Republicans are going to do everything they can do to help the rich fat cats who line their pockets!!
And the democrats are doing everything they can for the "fat cats" that line their pockets.
Democrats and Republicans are doing everything they can for the fat cats to line their pockets while playing the American public
The GOP and Teabaggers have no class. That's why they defend the super wealthy and crap on the poor. Shame shame.
Why is it necessary to name call. Your comment has no class because you can't act like an adult. You are an adult aren't you?
Here we are again. Abandon all hope to negotiate or be bipartisan. Once Paul Ryan appears in the scene is "Obama-Bashing"all over again. Why can't he just go away?
Why can't Obama just go away?
You hero Paul Ryan is the one throwing the stone and fueling you all tea baggers. It does not take much for all of you to start firing without knowing the issues. Read about how much the wealthiest companies are paying on taxes: Less taxes in 50 years.
All of you just want Obama away without even know why
Nobama bin Liein should go away and take all of his relatives with him. They're nothing but Anti-American, Islamic POS.
I certainly know why. President Lame Duck Downgrade is going away and not soon enough.
Socialists always run out of other peoples money.
You two can't write a sentence without calling names. The perfect sample of the tea party fans: Ignorant and abusive.
I'll just call you overly sensitive.
IRESPOND: please pay attention to the posts of your fellow liberals. Plenty of childish name calling there.
Why should the rich pay more to support of group of whining slugs?
I don't even want them to pay more.
I just want the wealthy to pay at the same real tax rate as the middle class - that's all.
When they talk about the rich, they are talking about the oil companies and such, not about the people that can afford a computer or a double wide trailer.
Frank the proposal is they pay the SAME PERCENTAGE, NOT MORE.
READ THE PROPOSAL
Might you be kind enough to be specific. What whining slugs bother you?
Does it not strike you as odd that our tax code imposes an AMT on the middle class but not on the wealthy?
If all taxes are considered people below the poverty level are paying a substantial portion of their income. The only people doing any whining I am aware of are republicans who insist that the wealthy are busy bestowing jobs on the middle class. Having their cherished "trickle down" lie challenged, they respond once more that the challenge is class warfare.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over while expecting the results to change.
dzus123,
That is a really interesting mix of statements. On the one hand you can see why we need a flat tax, same percentage for all people and a slitghtly higher flat tax for businesses.
BUT, you think the guy that gave us the FED which has totally screwed our economy, and the guy who started us down the road to a Nanny State is a good guy?
You could have some great debates with yourself there.
Gee Frank, your intelligence (or lack thereof) is showing.
Yes, everybody who makes less than 250k per year is a lazy slug. But those trust fund kids making 300k or more per year are not. How about the fund managers who sit at a computer 5 hours a day, slaving away for their million dollar plus salaries? Or maybe the CEO who inherited his position from his daddy who did work hard, aka Wall-Mart, Nordstrom, only to rule like an ignorant, spoiled brat. Yes they all work sooo hard.
And news for you. They spend nothing personaly to hire people for their companies. So how does giving them more money make them want to hire.
Actually, most companies with less than 500 emplyees distribute earning via personal income, which goes on a W-2, so it does go to the owner's personal income.
Could you possibly be any more envious of those that achieve more than you? Why don't you do something about your situation besides waiting for a handout?
And new for you FlyingEnergy. Life's not fair. Get over it. Move on.
Hey, john apparently you don't know me. I make a fair living that I worked for. I am an Engineer, I own my own buisness. I have clients such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin. But honestly I work less hours than many people I know. I make signifigantly more than most, mainly due to luck. Yes, that's right luck. I come from a family of engineers and I have essentialy been handed my work through connections. I don't pretend to be better than anybody. Yet I know people in my economic position that have signifigantly more than me, yet they have never worked an honest day in their lives.
What about you john? Are you lazy? I do know that a signifigant portion have worked for the wealth they have. Yet, work always seems harder when you are the one doing it. If you are wealthy I would assume you think you worked harder than anybody else to get their. But I'm sure I can find a coal miner that has worked longer, harder day's for much less than a living.
Wrong, your implying a double tax. Paying employees is part of any buisness's P+L. No matter where you decide to categorize the payment's, the money still comes from the buisness's funds not the owner.
Hey Frank Gruden the real question is why should the working middle class continue to pay when the real "whining slugs" (the rich) find every loophole and tax haven to avoid paying their fair share. That all the rich and the "right" do is whine about their burden. Hey any of you rich want to trade places. I didn't think so. More teapublican hypocrisy. The working middle class made America great and We made the rich RICH. Without US the economy is failing. Reverse "supply-side ecomonics" adhere to "demand-side economics" and WE will build America strong once again, like we did before. With more jobs and more pay, tax revenue would increase, the deficit would come down and the rich could stop whining and go back under their rocks like the slugs THEY are. The last real Republican, Bush 1, warned us of "voodoo economics". No one listened. The supply side (the rich) flush with money is not doing a DAMN thing to stimulate the ecomony by sitting on it. Give the breaks to the demand side (us) and stand back. WE will make U rich once more. But your tunnel vision allows U to only bite the hand that makes U.
Give it up John! Average household income dropped during the last several years as the concentration of wealth among the wealthy increased. That mythical owner of a business with 500 people isn't sharing the profits.
I'm educated, in the top 10% of wage earners, been given nothing, and inhereted nothing. I don't have a family business to support me. Too bad you feel guilty. I suggest setting up a charitable foundation and doing some charity work. Coach a soccer team or something. Mentor some kid from the 'hood, but get of my pocket.
Too bad so sad. I guess the answer is to "redistribute" and "spread the wealth around" as the guy says? If you take the incentive for entrenprenural enterprise out of the equation and you spell the end of this society.
I don't feel sorry for some loser who boxes themselves in a bad situation because A) they make bad choices, B) they don't care and/or C) they are too dumb to realize they are too dumb to be anything else. I bootstrapped myself out of poverty. If I can anyone can.
Obama IS using class warfare to fire up the base. He has nothing left. People don't know it yet. Be mad at me and the millions like me. I don't care. I'm tired of caring my load and three other's load. The answer is the http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
This deal ain't getting done. Obama's a one-term loser. I'm happy.
This just in: Life's not fair.
I don't feel guilty.
It seems people like you are greedy and or stupid. If you think your paying high taxes your stupid, because you can find many way's, if you own a business, to lower you obligation to nearly nothing. If you already do that you are greedy and have no concept for how tax dollars are spent to help better life in America for you me and everybody else.
Looking at your writing I would say your not stupid. But greedy is a definite possibility. Whats funny is you keep saying people who are not wealthy are lazy, then you say Life is not fair. That's a bit dichotomous wouldn't you say?
Finaly supply side Economics has never worked and will never work. I can prove it along with many economists. However demand side does work. If you can afford to increase your burden to the 35% for which your bracket requires, which if your in the top 10% should break the bank, we would see an explosion in growth. Infrastructure, Development and government jobs would all hire like crazy. Unemployment would fall around 4%, and consumer confidence would increase. Thus earning your small investment back through more work for your buisness, whatever that is.
I must also add John, if everybody had your stance on wealth and believed they earned it while spitting on the backs of the workers who made it happen. It wouldn't be long before distribution of wealth occurred by their hand. Meaning, all the money in the world won't stop an angry mob of starving college graduates that are making less than 1/10th what college graduates made ten years ago, from taking what they believe should be theirs. The problem with educated society is that you can't fool people into believing you worked harder than everybody else to earn what you have. People know how you got there, and frankly I believe it may have been some hard work, but mostly it was the luck of the draw.
Shouldn't
My ability to pay more has zero relevance to the government's right to my money.
I am sick and tired of geting held up at gunpoint by the IRS, when the federal government spends money like Mike Tyson after a prize fight. This has gone on way too long. We are sick of it and will not take it any more. I'm not talking about just Obama either.The massive waste, fraud and abuse has gone on for decades. I'm done.
If the new TP Congressman in my district doesn't vote against spending and taxes we'll find someone who will. Obama is the worst offender in decades though. His level of incompetence is off the charts.
He plays you libs like a violin. It is so predictable. He calls for taxes from mis=ddle class folks and his sheep all jump on board. He olny did this to fire up the base. This deal is DOA. All Obama knows how to do is make speeches and politic. He has zero ideas how to actually stimulate growth.
Solyndra is a typical Dem boondogle, and indicative of their business acumen. THe starving college graduates (currentlly sandwich artis) can thank Obama for their current situation. I think they are smart enough blame the Dems who gave their opportunities away.
The Obama's of the worldare in for a very long nuclear winter, as this economy is reconfigured. The 50 year War on Poverty resulted in record food stamp "clients" this year. Entire balck communities are dependant upon government programs generation, after generation. Who says slavery was abolished? I'd be ashamed and feel very guilty, If I were you.
You a tax dodger?
SO we are cutting spending, does that make you happy. And other than cutting social services for apparent, "Black People",
what do you think the government wastes money on? And do you have proof for that. I did see a statistic that said, more money goes to Red States for wellfare than Blue states. So maybe there is something wrong with your philosophy.
What does this, incompetence look like? In your oppinion.
The Solyndra loan makes up 1.6% of the green energy money spent from the 88billion allocated by the Economic Recovery act 2009. So only 98% of the recovery act is a success, wow, what a complete failure right? Not really. If 98% of an investment ended up making money and only 2% was lost, you would be the greates investor in history. It sounds like your sides outrage is the real boondogle.
Are you saying the top 10% is all that is left of the middle class?
Right back at you.
What a joke... You'd think that the republicans hadn't been waging war on the lower and middle classes for the last 30 years!
Point: No matter how much money you throw at wealthy people, they won't hire a single extra person unless they have to, and as long as demand is low they don't have to! Every tax cut that a rich person get just goes to make them pointlessly richer.
The republicans suffer from a little bit of economic acumen which is overshadowed by a large mythology that allows them to sleep at night while they ignore the consequences of globilization on the distribution of wealth.
So we know the super rich are raking the money in and no jobs are being created........where does that leave us but to tax them for their greed. We could call it a greed tax.
Class warfare? How dare they say that, the Tpubs have been engaged in class warfare since Regan. The uber rich and the serfs, get rid of the "middle class" asap. I can just see O'Connell say in aside to Ryan, The Slasher, "We'll accuse they of class warfare, fake 'em out, and finish fleecing the serfs. "Job creators", that's another gutsy thing to call their master, yeah, their jobs are bought and paid for, no good paying jobs for the serfs. We've accepted their BS for so many years, they are convinced they can say and do anything, 'because the serfs are too stupid to get it, anyway. And , still, some of us are.
Heaven Forbid we ask hedge fund managers who make >$1 billion a year to pay the same federal tax rate as the middle class.
Class Warfare has been waged by Republicans against the Middle Class for decades but they only consider it "warfare" when the wealthy are asked to do anything.
They have already been taxed on income at a higher rate than middle class. They are paying capital gains on investments made with ordinary income already taxed. Obama is doing a Chicago shuffle promoting class warfare as a last resort to keep HIS job.
John, You keep drinking that gop Koolaid
John, last time I checked cap gains is 15%.
John. If someone has income it is subject to tax. Income earned and taxed does not make investment returns from that income taxed twice. Investments do often receive favorable tax treatment.
Might I ask why you see this as a problem specific to the wealthy? Do you think the lesser classes don't make investments? You make a very revealing and curious argument.
15% is correct , poor rich people. Such a heavy burden.
@ John- I barely pay any taxes on my assets and investments. Come time to visit the Tax man- I haven't paid extra Tax in THREE YEARS. In fact, Uncle Sam has given ME MONEY BACK.
All because a few years ago- 15% of my investments tanked (now recovered) and I can carry over the losses- over years.
My financial advisors have done an amazing job- I have GAINED MONEY FASTER in the past 2 years than I have in nearly a decade.
This is indeed a future class warfare- but not quite your version.
Which is exactly why Obama's argument is purely dogmatic class warfare. I Earn $1,000 in wages. I pay $200 in taxes and invest $800. I make $200 on my investment and pay 15% capital gains. Why should anyone pay more than 15%? What difference does the amount on regular income make? It makes no difference. BO is trying to double talk the uneducated that don't know capital gains from Gaines dog food. You know it. I know it.
The Buffet Rule is the new BO BS RUle.
If you tax something more, you get less of it. Tax something less and you get more of it. Raise capital gains and you have less investment. It's that simple.If you want less investment, then raise CG taxes. How much sense does that make?
Just more redistribution from our President.
Yes, that's what taxes are. It is why we have a government in the first place.
The rich are paying the lowest taxes in 50 years....Read about it. Ronald Reagan -the hero of the Tea-Party and the Republicans Raised taxes 11 times YES ELEVEN times....
Get real!
If the g-damned rich don't want to do their share to save this country then take it all.
Nobody has enough money to save this country from President Downgrade. Socialists ALWAYS run out of other peoples money.
The Republicans had no problem in exploiting this country during the 8 years of the Bush Administration TO GET MONEY FOR THE WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN. However, they are SO reluctant to raise the taxes during thse really BAD TIMES and while we have an emergency. All that they are doing is campaigning for their future presidential candidate. -whoever that may be-
They are not interested in passing the jobs program of President Obama. This program can lower unemployment in the long run.
The real egocentric stupid and other names republicans in Congress are just not interested in helping you...and YOU ARE STILL DEFENDING THEM.
You need your heads examined.
JH you are a piece of work. Distribution of wealth from the bottom to the top is fine and American. Jesus said "If you see a man without a coat and you have two, you should give that man one of yours". Now is distribution of wealth from the top to the bottom "Socialist" or "Christian" or let me blow your peabrain, both. "It is easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to gain entrance to Heaven". I love Jesus, he was such a Liberal. Ya he really liked you "money changers". That incident was the only time Christ got pissed. It was at the exchangers of capital (the capitalists). The pseudo-christian "right" lack Christian ideals. ; P
IF Obama REALLY wants to raise taxes, why did he and the Democrats in Congress EXTEND the supposed "Bush Tax Cuts" last year? At that point those tax cuts became the Obama Tax Cuts!
Rick, because he wanted to extend uneployment benefits and the tax cuts for the middle class, and the rethuglicans wouldn't have it without the tax cuts for the rich.
IRESPOND: The rich have had their heads examined. The results can be reviewed here: msnbc.msn.com/id/44084236/ns/health-behavior/
No the real "Class Warfare" is paying $4.00 a gallon for gas and giving the oil companies subsidies and lower tax rates. It's destroying unions and lowering minimum wage. It's readjusting the child labor laws. It's eliminating social security, workman's compensation, medicare, sending jobs overseas and paying Chinese labor instead of keeping the jobs in America. It's Walmart. It's keeping government defense contractors on DOD welfare to fight the cold war that was over years ago. It's starting wars you can't pay for. It's inventing a Prescription Drug Plan that robbed the American taxpayers. It's giving huge tax breaks for more than a decade to the wealthiest corporations and taxpayers in the country, with an indication that it would only be temporary, then deciding you don't want to go back to the Reagan era tax rates any more. And most of all it sabotaging the United States of America because you don't want this President to succeed at anything. It's awfully hard to not believe the underlying reason is racial. It really is Tan Man!
What I say......
There is absolutely no such thing as an oil co. "subsidy". Its a liberal myth. THey get tax exemptions. Nothing more.
John, you are one sad, ill informed, bigoted person. I'm glad I'm not you. BTW, I'm not a Democrat, but I am a realist, not a blind hater.
John, a tax exemption for doing what you're supposed to do -- and are making record profits at doing -- is a subsidy.
Of course it is class warfare. The Republicans are just upset that the middle class is finally fighting back.
Actually, I have no problem with this if it is not a trick and is straight forward.
However, it is wrong to let 47% or so of the public not to pay federal income taxes. That also needs to be addressed in conjuction with the above plan.
You're not going to get enough money out of them to make any difference, so who cares?
The biggest shame is that they don't make enough to have to pay taxes you teatard! Quit sucking on Koch! YOU teabaggers are killing the middle class.
Check the people in that 46%. It's climbed in recent years because of the economy. Those people pay nothing because they earn next to nothing. A good example is my son and daughter who worked through college at campus jobs. They earned very little and got back 100% of what they earned in the school year. Something like $1,300 annually. Do you really want 80 year olds receiving social security, and college kids, who fall into that 47% figure paying 17% of their gross income? I'm willing to let them pass.
So say if an extra 50 million citizens paid $50 annually in tax instead of nothing, that wouldn't make any difference? Really?
The federal government does call all taxes income tax. The 46% you mention pay a variety of federal taxes that add to a substantial portion of their income.
Please do all a favor. Stop repeating chain e-mail assertions and try some fact checking.
You really need to look into who is not paying federal income tax and why.
Exactly Lupuskanar. Republicans clearly don't get the big picture. Sure, in their perfect world, their tax cut plan for bazillionaires might work, but, we are as far away from that as we can possibly be, thanks to them!
I was watching Jon Stewart the other night and he was showing some clips from always "fair and balanced", FOX News. One idiot was saying that families of four, whose yearly income is at or below $21,000, didn't have it that bad. He went on to say that some percentage, 48%, I think it was, had refrigerators, microwaves, and other basic small appliances, suggesting that they weren't struggling to make ends meet. Never-mind that most of these appliances belong to their slumlord!!
If middle and upper-middle class citizens vote Republican in '12, they deserve everything that comes with it. Obama's clearly not perfect, but, at least he's trying!!
Actually, a lot of good comments on both sides of this issue
Bu the entire tax code really needs to be reexamined. There are probably 'rich' people avoding taxes entirely, perhaps because of illegal businesses. At the same time 47% of the population not paying federal income taxes (and I don't mean little token taxes) is dysfuntional for a working democracy. When too many pay nothing they will naturally want more since they are not paying for it.
Again, the whole tax code and its enforcement needs to be overhauled.
Independent, what is disfunctional for a working democracy is that 47% of the population are too poor to pay income tax. That is disfuctional.
Why is it that the people who scream "class warfare" are the ones who successfuly wage it while sitting in the lap of luxury?
You would think at some point they would be ashamed but no.
Kathryn they will never feel shame because they have already decided we are the enemy. One does not feel empathy for someone they are trying to destroy.
They feel no shame because there is something wrong with their brains. Really. Look: msnbc.msn.com/id/44084236/ns/health-behavior/
But when the Republicans attack public education and affordable health care they are just doing what's best for the country. LMAO.
It's only class warfare when the democrats do it, apparently. Naturally, EVERYTHING they do is also labeled "class warfare."
Absolutely BAD BOB, our education system is leaving us in the dust of other countries who are turning out the most engineers and other technical jobs. I assume by affordable health care you are alluding to Obamacare. I guess since Pelose said to pass to find out what is in it, you haven't bothered to read it.
Did it not get through to you why Obama left a large portion of that plan to take affect AFTER the 2012 election? Once you see the cost and the death curse it will be for a lot of elderly and disabled because they won't be able to find doctors to treat them, you tell me just how affordable that is. Aside from that since it was passed, insurance companies are getting in all the increases in co-pays and listing uncovered procedures and tests they won't cover as fast as they can and our insurance is going up 10 - 20% this year. Excuse me if I don't see how that is "affordable". Of course if you are counting on the "rich" to pay for it for you, you wouldn't care about all that.
This is just utter and total CRAP. These GOP/Teatards keep up the onelliners about 'read the bill' . People should read the bill, it will disprove everything this myth-posting teabagger is selling you.
And another myth of the Right...that tort reform will reduce medical costs because of malpractice premiums being so high.
Several states enacted the reforms, lawsuits and rewards were reduced and guess what?.....the insurance companies in almost every case did not lower the doctors' insurance premiums.
Dont let the naysayers of Obamacare talk you into thinking the Insurance companies will somehow lower their rates without it in existence.
I am soooooo sick of you libs and your marxist president playing class warfare. The rich pay the majority of the taxes in the U.S. (I'm not rich, i'm middle class), but that's not enough for you. Keep looking for the handouts and I'm sick to death of it! Start paying your freaking fairshare or maybe just get a job and we might start to recover as a country!!
Companies hire. People apply for jobs. Companiesa are sitting on 2 Trillion in capital . You said extending the Bush Tax Cuts would ease the 'uncertainty' of the 'job creators' and hiring would crank up. Tax breaks extended....no hiring. Then it was 'raise the debt ceiling and we will have less uncertainty and hire'.....debt ceiling raised.....no hiring.
If you hire they will get jobs. Get it?
What I see is a long recovery after a nearly devastating recession in 2007-2009.
I see the president, though not perfect, put out a bill to present that will increase growth in GDP, create 1-2- Million jobs with infrastructure investments and tax breaks. And the GOP wants to kill and stall for 14 months for the hope the economy stays bad so they can re-claim the WHite House.
While the GOP refuses to give, more AMERICANS will suffer. They dont want the immediate job creating measures, they don't want infrastructure. They just want to hold millions of American jobs hostage for 450,000 Millionaires
It's OK Tim, Fights is just another ill informed, bigoted, hater. No sense trying to reason with him. No critical thought to be found there.
I agree that infrastructure investments are the best, most productive way to immediately put people back to work. It worked in FDR's New Deal in the 1930s, and it will work again, especially since the infrastructure actually needs improvements, particularly to bring them up to technological standards. I also tend to agree that the Republicans are likely holding Americans hostage in order to claim back the White House. Most of them seem cynical and greedy enough to do just that.
The very rich, super rich, and ultra rich have a tax rate lower than the middle class because their tax rate is lower on their investment income. They sit around the pool waiting for the dividend check, while people who get up early in the morning and make it to work on time and labor are taxed at a higher rate.
Since the tax cut for the rich era began in the 80's the rich have had falling taxes while the rest of the US population has had very little change. Now that the country is in financial dire straights, the tax vacation for them must end. But the rich now want sympathy as victims! They are SPOILED ROTTEN and unappreciative while the middle class and poor have stoically absorbed "tough but fair" cuts in police, education, roads and bridges, and other important social needs.
Tax cuts for the rich have not helped the economy, and the bad economy is not the fault of poor people. How much more evidence do some people need than the last 10 years?
The rich, super rich and ultra rich live with the same tax tables we do. The only difference is that many of them no longer get their income from payrolls. They get it from capitol gains on investments, just like your 401k if you are lucky enough to still have one. They get capitol gains when they sell real estate for more than they pay for it, just we do. Not that this will be a problem for any of us for a long time thanks to Clinton, Dodd, Franks, Obama, Jesse, Fannie and Freddie et al. If we ever do find the housing market recovering or make some money in stocks, the tax increases Obama is talking about will bite us just as much as anyone who is rich. Once think I learned long ago, when politicians start "taxing the rich" all of a sudden I'm not middle class or lower class, suddenly when it comes to the tax man, I'm rich.
Why are people still foolish enough to buy this bull crap?
No they DONT use the same tax tables, unless you call two things the same just because they are glued to each other. THE PAGES USED BY THE WEALTHY TAX MUCH LESS OF THEIR INCOME THAN THE PAGES WE USE!!!!!!!!!
The sheeple love Obama and fall for his rap all day long. He's already raised middle class taxes. He just forgot to tell all of you.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/
Shaking my head - I am afraid that at this point so few people can even count change anymore let alone understand taxes and that is what Obama is counting on. His plan is to raise enough hate for anybody rich by his standard, and eventually it will filter down to those of us making just a decent living. Sad, but true.
The truth is ALL of us that have any income will be paying more in taxes until our last dying breath because as a nation we have spent more than we have and now we have to pay for it or go belly up.
BTW, so many do not realize that Buffett still owes the government taxes. Do you think he is holding back that payment because he paid too much? How about instead that he is fighting paying what is owed.
Really, the hypocrisy is gagging.
Hey shaking my head... shows you don't know squat about tax tables either.... 401(k) income is taxed as ordinary income when it is taken out as it is not taxed when it is put in..... seems like you don't get it either!!!!
Garrick, that's a flat out lie made by your marxist President and you libs fall right into his class warfare trap!
It is an outright lie of Mr. Buffet in stating in public that he only pays 17% tax rate while his secretary pays much more. He is referring to his second tax rate which taxes only his investment income - capital gains and dividends. This is only the second part of the double taxation that exists in the US of taxing individuals and corporations for their annual income and then taxing this same capital and assets for their income thereafter. Mr. Buffets total taxes per year will easily amount to 45-47% tax rate (and that is even not counting state taxes, consumption taxes, property taxes, and other sundry exploitations of the entitlement society).
His firm, Berkshire Hathaway, is doing everything possible to not pay their taxes.
You need to get back to the books. you are confused
That's rich...
I don't know too many retirees, any needy folks on food stamps [and the like] that have their bought-and-paid-for Republican Congressman on a speed dial.
it's not enough to say "vote ron paul"
people need to switch parties 12 weeks in advance of the primaries in most states.
if you do not switch in time you cannot vote in primary.
if you are not registered republican you cannot vote in primary.
if ron paul does not win primary, no general election ! register as a republican. find out when your state has primaries. find out where and vote vote vote ! please !
we need every last vote ! copy and paste this everywhere, and vote up
Shaking my head-2479300...
The "rich" had almost a decade of tax breaks to create jobs.. they didn't... they had several decades worth of blue collar job outsourcing to get some measure of stability in this country. Guess what - they didn't! They didn't because there is currently no significant incentive for them to invest in the American economy and this state of affairs will continue until we have something resembling a plan that would balance out the growing economic disparity in this country.
The richer are becoming richer and more arrogant. They have not and will not share wealth--stop their tax breaks and let them start doing something useful and patriotic for their county which will most certain sink. I hate the GOP's spin on everything--they are against education, subsidized health care, social security..any time any dem suggests taxing the rich they cry socialism etc..this country need educated voters and the GOP does not want anyone to think independently and get education.
Sorry--tax breaks have been given to the super rich and look at what has happened--FRAUD on Wall Street, abuse of environment, reckless wars, but no job creation. We need a revolution in our country --a revolution by the middle class and please Tax the rich, no they won't become poor but America will prosper.
Give me a frickin break!!!
Class warfare????
I'm a rich millionare and I've been on the minumal tax gravy train for 10 years but what you're proposing now is "class warfare"!!!
Oh Pleeeeeze
Millionare my a$$,
Maybe a Millionares punk paid blogger. Oh Pleeeeeze, that's cute..
It's a frickin joke Everett!! Yu dumb arse