Not only that, how many more 10 year loans can we take out?

I am tired of financing spending today with 10 years of tax hikes. Eventually we will end up with too many loans

It generates enough "peanuts" to pay for the jobs bill.

Republicans have yet to put forth a coherent jobs bill.

Deregulating air and water, and big give-a-ways to big oil are not jobs bills.

Obama is like Wimpie in the Popeye cartoons "I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" but Tuesday is left to our grandkids to pay for in Obama'sand the Democrats' national world economic views! His talk yesterday was so filled with lies and out right misrepresentations that as usual, he is becoming more and more irrelevant and yet the Democrats have to stick with him because it was political suicide to admit that he has been a total failure! Be smart enough to see through all his smoke and mirrors and vote Republican in November 2012.

I officially hate this administration after reading the Solyndra emails and anyone else that reads them will also. Especially if you are a liberal. We have people suffering and they willfully gave away $535,000,000 of our money!

That is gross, they did it on purpose! They knew it was bad, but they did not care.

They did not care!

They are gross scum, just like when their leader allowed a felon to screw poor people for a bigger yard, you all ignored that.

Read the emails and come to your own conclusion.

And now the distractions.

First, the grandchildren argument. Well, I guess Republicans want our grandchildren growing up without clean air and water.

Second, the "Solyndra all solar energy is evil" argument. Solar energy is the future. China has spent 15 times more in subsidies because they want to build solar there. We need to build solar here and create some jobs in the US.

Eric, read the emails, I can forgive a bad investment, I can't forgive blatant disregard for a photo op.

Eric, read them and if you can forgive them, you are a bigger man than me or a party hack. Even your buddy Feisty was speechless.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2011/09/15/full-text-emails-from-solyndra-hearing/

Wouldn,t it be great if ALL of the "Wall Street Protestors" would sit down and actually READ this article ! Obama has clearly been distorting the TRUTH for political purposes and he has been caught red-handed !!

Salesmanship is one thing ......... Integrity at the personal level is quite another !!!

If the Obama Administration continues to infringe upon the Personal Rights One Has To Choose For Themself, then we are going to have to vote him and other similar thinking Democrats Out of Office!!!!

OBAMA, we American Individuals are tired of allowing for the government to choose what we put or don't put into our bodies.

REAL TALK:::

What brings me to this is the fact that the federal Government is STILL bothering dispenseries in California!!!!
The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS BEING EVIL HERE!!!!

If the Obama administration is behind it then maybe it is time to vote for RON PAUL!!!

We Americans are tired of being told what to do in regards to us.
We never gave that power away and yet we want it back.

Really this is some sickness going down over here where these people are addicted to making laws in this "FREE COUNTRY"""

So when they were talking about the President making the trip to CA for the photo op, he was not privy to that conversation?

He lied to us crying baby crap again. They had access to the same intel as he did and he let them vote on it, unlike the current President.

You made one correct quote, your vote is a no brainer!

Lvingbarefoot, demonizing an entire industry because of one business failure is a travesty. Republicans are costing Americans jobs in the solar industry with these attacks.

My evidence, look at the solar companies in Seattle that had to close a plant recently.

Bush caved in to the liberals and yes I was pissed and so were many Americans, hence the Tea Party.

Eric, stop deflecting. It is not about the industry, it is about they knew it was wrong but did it anyways.

They were told numerous times that it should not be done, even the man you consider an idiot pulled the plug on it.

The administration has been reluctant to brand China a currency manipulator, as have past administrations, because the United States depends on China to buy U.S. Treasury securities to help finance America's budget deficits. China owns $1.17 trillion in U.S. Treasury securities, making it the largest foreign holder of Treasury debt.

This is exactly why we should not approve the jobs bill!

Eric

China just might be so aggressive in this area due to the fact that they control about 95% of all the Rare Earth Minerals so vital to the solar industry! Without these elements solar can't be made to work. For us to manufacture anywhere near the scale that China can we will first need to discover an abundent source domestically! Absent that source to continue to throw hugh sums of money at it is fiscally irresponsible!

@livingbarefoot: That's the free market for you...a company failed...it sucks. Businesses fail every day. You keep bringing up a decision that was made 2 and a half (ish...i think its 2 years and 9 months) ago and was touted by both this and a former administration to occur. If the business wasn't having an issue it wouldn't have asked for a loan.

Also, if the government was getting false information from Solyndra, there's not much that they can do about it. It's kind of like blaming a president for entering the a country on highly suspect WMD claims and reports. Misinformation happens. I'm not saying that if Bush did it it's ok for Obama to do it...but at the same time I'm asking for consistency here.

The old administration voted unanimously to stop talks with Solyndra. Unanimously!

The new administration's DOE was also on board to stop it. But someone from hire up made them do it anyways, even though they repeatedly said no!

Read the emails and stop spreading untruthful comments.

Will your "transparent" President release his email? I bet on "no"!

Solutions539- You are aware of how this political system works don't you? Bush could not move forward with the war without the approval of congress, but you don't seem to hold them responsible...

Peel Layer- just because Bush spent money doesn't make it right in the eyes of republicans...and it doesn't make it right now, so I think that you are pointing at two wrongs make a right? Or we can just do the responsible thing and start cutting the size of government. It has been done before, and it worked!

Goose,

Solyndra received a "going-concern" opinion from its independent CPA's. Are you suggesting to me that our wonderful federal government was SOOOOO INEPT .... that it did not even check on their financial stability ???

This "going-concern" letter is like a financial "kiss-of-death" statement and I only saw it once in my years as a practicing CPA ! This was a MAJOR RED FLAG the DOE recklessly ignored !!!

Wouldn't it be great if ALL the "Wall Street Protestors" would actualy sit down and read this article?

Well, jim, if the spelling and grammar on their protest signs is any indication, the protestors are probably incapable of reading ....anything!

Actually Jim, the DOE did not ignore it, they brought it up many times.

They were told to change the rules and do it anyways.

Who has the power to make them do that?

Solyndra is about the govt not trying to pick winners; cuz they cant. Solyndra collapsed because somebody DID drive down the cost of solar panels-- it just wasnt Solyndra.

The lies and half truths must be getting to big to ignore even at MSNBC! I never thought I would see MSNBC publishing something negative on their Anointed One! He is completely toast!

But they knew they were going to collapse but did it anyways.

@Livingbarefoot:

1.) Um...the old administration voted to postpone ruling for another look at the loan...not to say no to it...otherwise the same loan request wouldn't have been on the books for this administration to deal with.

2.) Be respectful. I'm not calling you a liar or belittling your beliefs so you can stop doing that right now.

@Jim: I wasn't there so I personally don't know if the DoE was at fault or someone else, but the bottom line is it happened. The president was given false information based on the analysis of either his advisors or DoE. To blame Obama based on the information that he was given is false is a gross injustice. ON THE OTHER HAND...if Obama was specifically given information himself (not his advisors) saying don't do this, then yes...blame him right away. THAT hasn't been proven.

@Livingbarefoot: Um...there was a big stink about the Department of Justice and waterboarding a few years back...not sure if you remember that...but the decision was made to do it first then act on getting approval second. Several people have the ability to make things happen "outside the rules."

So, this bill is supposed to fix our highways. Well, this is a good thing, our highways are in terrible shape. An interesting note though is that only a small percentage of the roads in the U.S. are federal highways. The vast majority are under state and local jurisdiction.

The local newspaper where I live recently printed the county's budget expediture plan. We have just less than $1B to spend. 57% of all of our county's spending goes to various forms of welfare. Let me say that again. 57% of the budget is committed to welfare!!! If we could free up some of that money, perhaps we could fix our local and state roads in the county (no federal highways here). Maybe we could afford to hire back some of the teachers and cops that have been laid off. We wouldn't need any federal money.

Goose, did you read the emails?

Goose, I didn't think so, that is why you are spreading untruths. You can consider being willfully ignorant not lying, it is done in politics all the time.

The first email states they have ceased discussion with Solyndra.

@livingbarefoot: Then why was the same loan request on the table when the current administration enter? It wasn't actually closed out.

I did read the emails...and like other people we came up to two different conclusions. I came to the conclusion that the president was given false information by his advisors, who in turn had been given false information to them by Solyndra. I don't think the president took the time out of his day to look over the yearly budget and finance charts personally. Unless you can prove at this moment in time that he did look at them personally, I am not stating anything that isn't true.

He was lied to, is that the new Democrat slogan.

Blame, we were lied to, blame, we were lied to, blame. How about a leader!

They said no, don't do this, and someone told them do it anyways. Where was the lying going on?

I'm sick of childish politicians (Dems & Reps both!) who threaten to hold their breath until they get their own way.

Could we get some grown-ups in DC? Folks that know how to compromise and come up with a real bipartisan agreement that's for the good of the people rather than the good of the corporations? Oh wait, corporations are people too. My bad!

DUANE-552524

The lies and half truths must be getting to big to ignore even at MSNBC! I never thought I would see MSNBC publishing something negative on their Anointed One! He is completely toast!

What on earth are you talking about? Over the last several years, MSNBC has published anti-Obama hit piece articles with such regularity you can practically set your watch by it. This one is so transparently biased that it even "fact checks" opinion statements such as "The republicans need to explain why they object to the bill and what they would do in it's place." The simple truth is that the republicans HAVEN'T given a clear, logically coherent reason for their objections (the simplistic sound bites cited by this article don't count) and they certainly haven't put together a detailed plan that explains what they would do in place of Obama's jobs bill.

MSNBC also tries to make it sound like Obama is being untruthful when he says that the jobs bill is full of ideas that, in the past, republicans have supported. I think it's time to fact check MSNBC's fact check. Watch this video:

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/03/333912/reagan-tax-loopholes-crazy/

There he is -- the grand old Diety of the republican party saying *EXACTLY* the same things Obama is saying. Clearly, if Reagan were running for president today, he would have no chance of getting the republican nomination. Today's right wing extremists would never accept a republican candidate that says socialistic things like that.

I realize that MSNBC has a reputation for being a left-leaning news organization. I would argue, however, that this perception is based entirely on the fact that the majority of their opinion TV show commentators are liberal. In their actual news coverage, however, MSNBC shows an amazing degree of conservative bias.

Yeah...he was lied to...about a decision that was made three months into his presidency. The DoE said they wanted to further consider the loan, but they also had since 2007 when the loan was originally requested. If I had to wait 2 years for a loan, I'd be upset (to say the least) that it wasn't done yet.

Yes the loan was pushed through. Yes the decision that was made to grant the request was in hindsight was incorrect, but hindsight is 20/20. You get 5 economists into a room together and ask a question you'll get 5 different answers. That's the problem, no one will agree on what needs to be done, but the people who said this would be a good plan (and were excited to be a part of it), were wrong. It remains to be seen if the president was personally involved.

As for the leadership part...If its shown that the people advising him are guilty of being grossly negligent and defrauding the government by giving false information, then we can discuss that at that time.

Until then though, this countries justice system works on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty" Opperative word being "proven." The first thing that people want to think when something goes wrong is that there was some sort of scandal, and until its proven to be true I reserve judgement.

lvingbarefoot
I officially hate this administration after reading the Solyndra emails and anyone else that reads them will also. Especially if you are a liberal. We have people suffering and they willfully gave away $535,000,000 of our money!

That is gross, they did it on purpose! They knew it was bad, but they did not care.

They did not care!

Not only is Obama not apologetic about blowing $535 million on Solyndra, he was bragging that this was just part of the Green initiative, just another bump in the road. "We knew there would be some failures. Solyndra was approved on its merits." Obama thinks this is just part of the grand plan to revolutionize our economy...to "fundamentally transform America." as he says.

These are not stupid people. They knew it was going to fail, yet approved the loan anyway. Why? Because Solyndra investor George Kaiser-Obama backer wanted it done..

They don't care about "Fast and Furious" either. they don't think anyone is paying attention, that it's just a police matter.

I can't remember a president more out of touch with the country.....maybe Carter.

Goose, who has the power to override the DOE?

Well to name a few: Congress, the Judicial branch of government, and the United States Secretary of Energy (who is appointed by the president) or the United States Assistant Secretary of Energy (who is only able to in the event of the SoE being absent). There's also undersecretaries under that who can also in the event of absence override the rest of the SoE. So to answer your question, two bodies of government and about 10 people...who also have assistants as well.

Wait a second: "There was a lot of misplaced zeal at the Department of Energy for this company." That means the DoE was FOR giving this loan...amazing. That was in several news articles...

You can eliminate the first two and I don't think assistants can or undersecretaries. That leaves three people, Secretary of Energy, VP and President.

Will we see their emails?

Really Goose?? So what...It was left on the table and not acted on..It wasn't acted on because of reservations of allowing it...But Obama sees it, knows it is crap, but yet acts on it and gives his blessing and it is somehow Bush's fault??

Goose people like you will never accept that your party does anything wrong...There will always be excuses and finger pointing....I didn't care for Bush the last 4 years, but at least he had the balls to say if something was his call or not....

And Junicon..Who gives 2 craps about what Reagan said...It has NO bearing on whether or not Obama is wrong now...I get so sick of the "well a Republican said this too"...So?? Does it take away from the fact that a Democrat said it and it STILL might be wrong?? Question..Did you support Reagan's view or were you against it?? Or were you for it before you were against it? Or were you against it before you were for it??

all of this BS and yet this guy has the nerve to lecture to those on the other side of playing politics.

If he could just be straight with this country I could try to have a little more respect for him.

@livingbarefoot: The Secretary himself (or herself) can change the decision. In the event of absences that power passes down to the secretary, undersecretary, and so on.

Look bottom line is this. If 15 people that you know and work with...that you trust to give you information to help you make an informed decision...come to you and tell you to invest money into "Stop Ferret Abuse Fund" because it will be a good investment and will look good as an example of your humanitarian views...but 2 random people come up and tell you that SFAF is actually a fringe organization trying to stop the abuse to make higher value fur coats for themselves...who are you going to listen to? (I don't know the actual number of detractors vs. supporters, but the numbers of supporters was far higher then detractors...and like I said...get five people into the a room and ask a question get five different answers.)

@Rob68: 1.) I never said it was Bush's fault...I'm just saying that both administrations wanted it. No...the fault of this loan rests on the shoulders of whomever gave the ok. 2.) There have been several things that apparently "my" party have done wrong over the years. I've never stated that they are the golden truth to all that is Republican lies, in fact I've said several times in the past that Obama, like all human beings, has made mistakes. I'm not pointing the finger directly to him until there is evidence that says that he was personally involved. I don't understand how that is such a wrong stance to take.

Yes Goose you did...By asking the question of why it wasn't closed out leads one to believe that you feel if it WERE closed out by the Bush administration Obama never would have been able to give his ok and since he didn't it was ok for Obama to act on it...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...This administration has none.....

@Rob68: No...I didn't. I said that IF the previous administration had rejected the plan then the SAME loan request wouldn't have existed. I didn't say that if Bush hadn't left it open then Obama wouldv'e been like "That's a great idea!"

What I have been saying is that what livingbarefoot said earlier was possibly in error. Just because I asked that question, doesn't mean I am automatically blaming Bush...it means that I asked a question. He said flat out that they closed the deal, and I'm saying that it wasn't closed it was pending further review.

So...in short...I believe that you are in error on how you perceived my comments.

Ok Goose..So you leave a gun out and I decide to pick it up and shoot someone, whose fault is it?? I mean really if you hadn't left that gun there I wouldn't have been able to pick it up and shoot someone...

Oh and I guess the banks are at fault for all those robbers that come in too..I mean if there wasn't any cash in those vaults and tills there'd be nothing to steal right??

@Rick: Can you point me to Reid's stupidity? Last I heard it would completely cover the cost, but I haven't been able to look into it today, so if you do have something I would greatly appreciate it.

@Rob68: Um...your fault for shooting it...the robber's fault for robbing the bank...and whoever said yes to passing the loan's fault for passing it. Personal responsibility...yes...whoever said yes to the loan should be punished...and until it can be shown that the president HIMSELF was given information saying don't do this...he did not PERSONALLY do this, the person who ok'd it would be.

All that aside though, your detracting from what we were talking about. I'm not blaming Bush for Solyndra...I'm also not blaming Obama for Solyndra. I'm blaming the person who did it, and until we know who did I'm not pointing fingers. Your conclusion that I am blaming Bush is based on the assumption that I'm using the same 2nd grade arguement of "well if he did it so can I." I'm not...as I've said before there are things that everyone has done that in hindsight is a mistake.

I don't understand why this article had to be so lengthy. I could have said it in 3 words.

Obama lied again.

@ Goose

In post 1.41 you make an analogy of 15 people telling you this is a good investment and two telling you its not, who are you going to believe?

I can see the logic in that argument, and I will not fault you for it...but if I am going to make a SPECTACLE of it...touting this to the media as the best organization to give money to, then I for one will check it out myself and at least LOOK at the numbers and figure out WHY and HOW my 'experts' came up with their decision before I sign my name to it.

If he didnt check the numbers himself, its criminal negligence...he did check the numbers, then it's just criminal.

THE FACTS: Obama proposes to pay for his jobs bill by raising taxes, something traditionally opposed by Republicans and, in the form Obama proposed it, even some Democrats.

Bipartisan opposition to raising taxes on the hedge fund managers and closing loopholes. The Republicans share one thing in common with the Democrats - they like the jobs bill - they just don't want to pay for it.

So the government continues to subsidize the redistribution of equity to the wealthy ...

@Govt: You have a very valid point. I agree with most of it. The only problem I have is the realization that this was his first three months of office that the decision was made. At this point anyone would rely heavily on advisors. If his advisors said: "This is a great example to use for benefiting this program." I would have listened to them. Yes...now it is a foot in mouth move...and I'm not sure that he touted it off very often, I only just recently had heard about Solyndra...but that's just me. I know he used it as his prime example, but the people who advise him should have said if there was anything to be worried about.

Goose, like I said you will get no argument from me. If I were the President I would have LOVED to have something like that to show, especially that early in his Presidency...but due diligence was obviously not done. At the very least come out and say 'I screwed up'.

The American Jobs Act should wait until we see just where the super committee puts it and the $447 Billion that goes with it in their report.

Both houses of Congress will vote on that report, American Jobs Act and all, up or down, by Christmas. No problem.

@Gov't: I agree...but I'd be worried to come out and say that. If people didn't automatically assume I was the one who caused this thing, I would do it...but right now people aren't thinking that...they just want to point fingers before the evidence is in.

Goose, point taken.

Goose...You are President of the US...The only reason to be worried is because of votes...Chicken@!$%# way of doing things....If you can't own up to your own mistakes how can you expect those you govern to? If people think that he caused it then come out and say he didn't....It's simple...If there is nothing to hide then be transparent just like he said his administration would be...I get tired of all the excuses....

They didn't have to rely on advisors. Fitch had downgraded Solyndra in fall of 08 to BBB. Which is not even investment grade ratings. That alone should have said stay away.

Price Waterhouse had looked at the business model and said the business model would NOT work. Months BEFORE the loan was made. Emails were sent from people that knew this.

They were making them for $6/watt and selling them for $3/watt. DOH! To be competitve with the energy market they need to be produced at $1/watt which is not possible with todays technology.

if solar energy is the way of the future, then why don't I see more stores, warehouses, or distributors across the country that sells them? The market ,aka you and me, will determine when we will switch over to solar and other forms of green energy. I do a lot of driving for work and I have yet to see houses with solar panels on the rooftops. If there is an area where a majority of homes have solar panels on them or neighborhoods that are near the "wind farms" I would like to know.

wow. good work msnbc. such a misleading headline.

what? we are supposed to act surprised that republicans oppose anything obama proposes?

cap and trade? republican idea.
individual mandate? republican idea.
small business loans? republican idea.

how many republicans supported those ideas when they went up for votes in the last two years? zero.

ps. this is hardly a comprehensive list. it is only what i could say off the top of my head.

Wow, I'm shocked.

AP actually told the truth about Obama. Usually they are an apologist for the Obama administration. I wonder if this reporter will lose his job.

Eric-913730 "Republicans have yet to put forth a coherent jobs bill....Deregulating air and water, and big give-a-ways to big oil are not jobs bills."

First you say the Republicans have yet to put forth any jobs bills (there are 13 sitting in the Senate), and then you say that they have passed some, but you complain that they ease some regulations so they're not 'real' jobs bills. Make up your mind.

All of the bills passed by the House would help create jobs, but Obama's moratoriums and EPA regulations and lack of action in the Democratic Senate are what's preventing them. Just easing the moratoriums on drilling would create many new jobs. I doubt that huge numbers of Americans were dying from lack of regulations before the record 81,000 pages of regulations for 2010 that the Democrats insisted on.

Interpretation of Mr. Obama's media comments by Mr. Carney:

"Think not what he appears to be talking about, but what he envisions himself to be talking about."

Think that is muddled.....just listen to some of Mr. Carney's press conferences.

Goose289 "Also, if the government was getting false information from Solyndra, there's not much that they can do about it."

They were not getting false information. The Bush Administration rejected the Solyndra request because it showed that the company plan was not viable. Even the analysts in the Obama Administration said in 2009 that they company would likely go bankrupt by September of 2011 - which it did.

Obama just threw away $535 Million of taxpayer funds to help out his big campaign contributor, and he figured the friendly media would cover it up.

So, Obama lies. That's news? But, what I find funny is that the "fact check" totally failed to address the major issue: Is there anything in this bill that will create jobs? The answer is NO! If anyone thinks there is, then please explain what would cause you to hire someone when you weren't otherwise planning on hiring someone.

Livingbarefoot: He was lied to, is that the new Democrat slogan.

Blame, we were lied to, blame, we were lied to, blame. How about a leader!

They said no, don't do this, and someone told them do it anyways. Where was the lying going on?

As of now, the only lying is coming from you. You are making accusations without any proof - just your own assumptions, which I feel are highly unlikely.

And to say things like this administration being corrupt, when it's actually squeaky clean compared to Dick Cheney's shenanigans with torture, secret meetings with top oil excecs - claiming exec privilege, Haliburton contracts, etc.

@Goose

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, what happened to the "buck stops here". I am not saying he was not privy to the facts. I am sure he is but neither him or all his worshipers will admit that he was at fault. There is only one way to find out, reveal all his emails in relation to Solyndra which I am sure he would not allow because the truth will come out.

Funny stuff, Obama's jobs bill failed in the Democratically controlled Senate. Someone needs to tell Harry Reid that Obama was expecting it to pass quickly. He must not have received that memo. Go Harry Go!

Dems can ignore the bad... they have for 3 years.

The facts in this article are clearly Bushs fault :)

If you go to politifact.com and look at lies told by the right and lies told by Obama, Obama tells the truth much more.

The right, especially those running for President, have told so many whoppers its not funny.

It's not about whose telling how much of the truth, its about jobs.

Republicans are doing nothing about jobs.

Eric if you defend someone by saying somebody else is worse, that person is not worth defending!

I see, so Bush wasn't worth defending, good to know.

Obama will be the first President to have negative job growth over a 4 year term.

DNC has controlled Congress since 2006......what did they do for jobs????

Obama has been President for almost 3 years....what has he done for jobs?????

The GOP is the MINORITY party in Congress....

Eric he acted like a liberal, you should be defending him.

Bush spent like a drunken sailor..., Obama spends like a ship full of 'em...

@Steve: I'm sorry...the story has only been on here for less then an hour...forgive us for not pressing the refresh buttons on our browsers fast enough for you.

@1Hiram: The unemployment rate was 8.1% when he entered office. Jumped to 10.1% within two months, before his policies could even take effect...and now are at 9.1% (with a growth of 103k reported today for the last month)...looks like that's making jobs.

You guys are so far off its not even funny.

Hiram, Obama inherited a huge mess. Look at the jobless claims graph. Under Obama those claims fell sharply. To expect that an 8 year run up on the debt to be fixed in 2 years is naive.

http://www.bullandbearwise.com/InitialJoblessChart.asp

314159, Bush raised spending by 88%, and Obama has raised it just 7.2%.

Obama has drastically increased this nation's debt. It ain't working out so well for Greece...

Eric even if your figures are correct, which I doubt, that means Obama raised Bush's horrible spending by an additional 7.2%, you consider that good?

Blame Bush, Blame Bush, Blame Bush ........ the Democratic strategy is unchanged !

Eric, When does this administration "grow a pair" and accept responsibility for it's ineffective and misguided attempts ? I mean... seriously, even Joe (The gift that keeps on giving) Biden has acknowledged that Democrats "OWN" the economy.

You, however, are still babbling the same, tired liberal talking points !

@livingbarefoot: Looks like we're running into each other a lot. No...it's not good...but its a heck of a lot better then 88% (assuming that number is correct). The most recent thing I've found is Bush increased the debt 7.1% his first term, and 28% his second...Obama is at 9%. Increasing the debt is never a good thing...but every present has done it really. Its an issue, but its not to the degree that you say Obama is at fault.

That strategy is soooo 2009...

Goose, does math baffle you.

If I spend 88% more than the last President and you spend 7.2% more than me, who spent more?

Obama inherited a huge mess.

That, Eric, is quite true. But not only has he not cleaned up any of that mess, he has made it considerably worse!

@Livingbarefoot: I said how much they increased the debt not how much increased spending. I couldn't find that number. The only thing I found relatively close to what was being described I posted...but if you want to go one step further...Bush first term increased the debt: 2.135 trillion. Bush second term increased the debt: 3.971 trillion. Obama first term: 1.653 trillion.

I don't know where Eric got his numbers from, but thats what I'm finding.

Goose.....yes we added 103,000 jobs in September.....45,000 were striking Verizon UNION members(collecting unemployment benefits) who went BACK to work in Sept. Actual NEW jobs added was 58,000. About what August was.

The point you are forgetting is that also during September 1.2 million NEW people filed for unemployment benefits. So add the 2 and we get a net LOSS of somewhere near 1,150,000 jobs for September. We have been averaging around 400,000 new unemployment claims filed each WEEK for almost 2 years. I do not think that is pretty good.

Eric....Obama has added in 2 1/2 years what bush added to the deficit in 8 years. Now who is spending more....faster......it is Obama

@1Hiram: The jobs created number factors in the additional unemployment claims...at least that is the last part of it that I understood...but if you can point to something that says what you just said specifically, then I will look into it, and retract my statement as necessary. I'm not saying that you are incorrect, I'm just not finding anything supporting it.

Be sure you do......new jobless claims number is announced every Thursday morning for the previous week ......I think at 8:30 am. The 45,000 Verizon number was stated with the adjusted September number this am by MSNBC, FOX, and CNBC.

@Hiram1: Oh I wasn't disagreeing with that part...I'm talking about the jobless claims number. In fact I didn't even say anything about that. As for the new jobless claims, that number includes previous claims. A person in unemployment has to claim that they are still unemployed every month. The net gain for the month of September was 103,000 jobs.

Goose you should be a politician..You have the hardest time admitting you were wrong and your numbers were skewed....So if new jobless claims are in addition to old jobless claims, doesn't it seem odd and that the numbers are being manipulated to show a positive outlook?? Which in itself is misleading and incorrect??

If I am jobless and my benefits run out, guess what..I can't file a claim for unemployment..Or how about those that just didn't claim that month..There are those you know...

But yeah that would debunk your myth that Obama is doing/has done great things for this nation.

Don't forget an uptick in hiring occurs this time of year due to seasonal hiring for the holidays. If the jobs 'created' aren't permanent, fulltime jobs then I say BS to the numbers

@Rob68: Please show me exactly where my numbers are incorrect. As I said, if anyone can give me proof that what I'm saying is incorrect then please do so. I will gladly say that I am wrong...but according to everything that I have been reading 103k is the net amount of jobs gained last month.

So...if I'm right will you admit that you are wrong?

This has been posted up there for all to see as well:

Page 4: Has a bunch of information regarding the number of people who are now employed comparitive to previous months. I see an increase of 398k employed...but thats including part time jobs...

Goose289

Knowledge...ain't it a biatch: http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/29/politifact-wapo-no-obama-is-the-undisputed-debt-king/

I'm sorry...what does an Obama debt story have to do with the jobs growth discussion we're having?

Besides that, the story which is recent is pulling information from a source that is six months old. Also, analysis on both sides have stated that the majority of the gain in the defecit were based on interest payments from the Iraq and Afganistan wars. There are many who ignore this point though...

If you notice...there is no increase in spending really during the Bush administration for the war...but a huge increase during the beginning of the Obama administration. How do you think Bush was able to keep spending at such a level field and then start two wars without an appreciable difference? It has been shown on numberous occasions that neither war was on the books until after the fiscal year...then suddenly poof...there's a ton more debt.

So yeah...#1 truth sucks. #2 we were not discussing the debt...we were discussing employment.

Still waiting...

I'm guessing you only read the headline, and not the article, Steve.

i dont blame bush. i blame the people who put him in power.

you know, the clowns shouting '4 more years', while he was putting the economy in the dumpster, undermining our standing in the world with catastrophic foreign policy and destroying our civil rights.

the same people who had their chance, had their seat at the table, had their voices heard, and now that everything they believed in have proven to be completely wrong, they want a clean slate. they want to tell you they are not republicans, but libertarians, or tea partiers or what not. they want to say 'oh, its obama's economy now. oh, its obama's war now'.

no. it isnt. it is your fault. you put bush there. if you had one mangled shred of intellectual honesty left in your conscience, you would sit down and shut the hell up.

it took decades to ruin our Nation and it will take decades to fix it. Unless these politicians can start working together it will never get fixed! Where are the presidential candidates that America can actually vote into office? Stop the lobbying, stop the camp contributions so we can find someone to work for the people!

Steve-3883232

No comments in here? what the dems don't read bad news about their president and the "mistruths" he states.

There are PLENTY of progressive comments refuting this phony "fact check" article. I made several on page 7. Wingnuts swarm over the corporate media's Obama attack articles like flies over you-know-what before progressives even get a chance to read the articles.

MSNBC should post newest comments first so that teabaggers with nothing better to do than sit in front of their computer all day and pounce on Obama attack article don't have their comments getting permanently prominent display. But maybe that's the way Chuck Todd wants it.

This president has bent over backwards to please the repubs. He has done so at the risk of losing his base. It does not matter how much the repubs whine and snivel. his harshest critics come from the left.

Goose 103K is the correct number.........only point is....... 45,000 of those 103k were striking union members......who already had a job....... but are allowed to also collect unemployment benefits while they strike(another unions perk)......they were not newly created jobs as the other 58K were......... but simply union employees returning from a paid vacation so to speak. For some reason they are allowed to be counted as a new job when actually they never lost it in the firsrt place........this I think is where we are all confusing each other.......

Re...can Obama do no wrong? This is an AP story anyway.

And you wonder why people call Dems brainwashed? Exhibit A ^

Even honesty from the biggest Obama cheerleader on the planet (MSNBC) is intolerable.

Pjam, you weren't happy that Obama got Bin Laden, you give the man no credit for anything that he has done.

Therefore, your constant criticisms are a clear indication of your brainwashing from the right.

I think it was great that he gave the order for the seals to get Bin Laden... That was a momentary bright spot during his dismal tenure.

Eric,

You are floundering ..... you are all over the place..... back to blame Bush, back to kiliing Bin Laden ......... you are in total denial ! LOL !!!

Why don't you take the day off and try to regroup mentally. I am sure Mr. Soros will not cut your compensation too much.

Obama's rhetoric has been debunked. The only thing amazing is to actually be able to read an article about it here on MSNBC. It must have been a mistake !

I think that Eric has a laser like focus..., on continuing to prop up a failing president...

Jim, when the name calling starts I know I have already won the debate, as its clear you have nothing to fight with.

Obama is trying to fix a huge mess without any help from the Republicans who care not about America but care about making Obama a one term President.

As an independent..., I certainly hope he is one term! He has made Jimmy Carter look great...

And what name did I call you Eric ? Put up or shut up !

obama got bin laden??? I guess the CIA and military specialists and Navy Seals had been working on this for years for nothing huh?? They should have not wasted their time and let the great messiah deal with it.

odumbo is a liar and an idiot.

eric -- many folks including you keep talking about the mcconnel stating that he wanted obama to be a one-term president. he is honest about his feelings. i would ask you whether harry or nancy met after bush's first election to determine how best to make him a success and again when he was elected for a second term to again make sure they could do everything they could to support him for 4 more years.

to claim mcconnel's statement is a big deal is just disingenuous when you know full-well that the democrat leaders said, albeit in private, the same thing about bush

When we find a terrorist leader, it doesnt take a lot of moxie to give the okie dokie to kill 'em. Only clinton was stupid enough to say no to that.

RE, all of your friends are waiting for you out there on the middle school playground. Why don't you get out there and join them?

Eric..You are a tool..There I called you a name and we haven't even debated...

Now on to the "debate"...Will you ever admit your President has done something wrong WITHOUT bringing up a Republican screw up??

And debate.......

It looks like Eric is unable to back up his lie which I challenged in #3.9 ! LOL !!

Perhaps, Eric and Obama are more alike than we thought !!!!

If we could have gotten OBL sooner, why didn't we? If you can't give Obama credit for getting him, can you at least give Bush credit for NOT getting him?

I love to see the rightys foaming at the mouth on these kinds of articles. It is comical in its veracity.

terriels,

It is totally irrelevant to the topic of the article ...... Obama does not tell the truth !

ok terriels why don't we just go back to Clinton...does he get credit for not getting him then even after he was offered up? stupid game we're playing huh??

I would ask terriels what proof he/she has that it was bin Laden that was recently assassinated? A body? DNA? Photos? Testimony of the Seals involved? Other than some "officials" word... you have no proof.

RE-3430894

Am I on Fox News Network or what?!? MSNBC

You have to keep in mind that MSNBC political reporters have little to do with the progressive on cable like Lawrence O'Donnell and Rachel Maddow. Chuck Todd is one of the most anti-Obama reporters on any network outside of Fox. And remember, MSNBC's sister network, CNBC, is where the teabag movement originated with some rant about "losers" who got subprime mortgages were responsible for the 2008 economic disaster rather than the Wall Street con artists and grifters who actually caused it.

Obama is in bed with the bankers, but loves to stir up class warfare. He would love to collapse the system so he can rebuild it as a socialist society. Google Cloward Piven strategy. Sadly, those societies usually come crumbling down. Look at Greece and the rest of Europe. Only Germany that works hard and doesn't have a huge nut is doing well.

"who got subprime mortgages were responsible for the 2008 economic disaster rather than the Wall Street con artists and grifters who actually caused it".

Ah, I think you got it mixed up. It all started from Barney Frank (D) and Chris Dodd (D) who opposed Bush twice to regulate Fannie May and Freddie Mac. Would you agree? of course not.

No, its what Republicans do, Obama is just taking a page out of your play book.

In short, its time to fight back.

Why in the world would Obama be using the republican play book?

Eric's confused today.... didn't have his Cheerios this morning !

@Pjam09: Eric is right...but beyond using the old "they did it so we can too arguement" (which I do hate by the way), I have heard Republicans say they wanted to close tax loopholes and certain other things as well. Regardless of that, Obama never said that the method of paying for the jobs bill was bipartisan...he said the ideas to spur jobs growth were.

I'm all for closing loop hole for... everyone. I'm also for the 50% that pay no federal tax to start putting some money in the pot. I'm for cutting spending to the bone. Then we can see just how much taxes really need to be increased..., on everyone. A flat tax makes more sense every day. No deductions..., no loop holes. But then how will politicians pay back their supporters?

That's right 314159, the Republicans haven't totally decimated the middle class yet. It's nice to know you want them totally gone.

I'm in the middle class..., and I can only see things getting better when your Savior is out of office.

@31459: I agree that the loopholes have to be closed, but there are some people who deserve it. Retirees, disabled (truly disabled), veterans, and single parent households. Not the single parent households that live off of food stamps and don't try to keep society going...I admit there are mooches out there. I mean the single parent households that have had a death in the family from illness, accidents, and survivors of tragedies.

Wake up. Thats what ALL polititians do. They're just trying to pay off enough of THEIR supporters to stay in power. Its not even a democracy thing. Even dictators stay in power this way. Obama wants to tax the rich cuz they tend to vote GOP. Class warfare is just a convenient proxy for partisanship.

Eric, the only thing a flat tax with no loopholes do to the middle class (I am part of) is set off the "greed button" of those who are entitlist minded who care less about correcting the mess we are in? Is your GREED the driver to your opposition?

How can one justify being upset of cooperation loopholes and not personal loopholes? Loopholes may have had some positive purpose in the past (job creation) but the bathtub is full with muddy water used to "buy" votes, end the insanity. Just think how easy it would be to determine revenue with the flat tax.

Eric, isn't the middle class the smallest under obama? By far, it is at its lowest level. You have to blame this one on the democrats and obama. Also, this bill was supposed to be paid for. We are finding out that it is not. If reid gets his tax increases, it will cause each millionaires taxes to increase by $186,000 or more. Hardly fair. Also, keep in mind that this is the same bill the democrats had voted down in 2009 by a filibuster proof senate. reid will not bring this to a vote, because HE DOES NOT HAVE THE DEMOCRAT SUPPORT HE NEEDS. The Republicans want it to come to the floor for a vote in the senate, reid will not. He knows it will not pass. Sad that reid can not even get his own people in line.

Wall Street protestors ...................

Wall Steet protestors will blow up in his face. They want $20.00 minimum wages (that should go over good)....I know that didn't come from a leader of the movement because there is none, but was spoken by one of the protesters. So basically they have no idea what they are protesting.

The protestors seem to be a bunch of people milling around cities. It would help if they had a unified coherent message. When interviewed they all seem to be there for different reasons, many of which I agree with. However, I still do not have a favorable view of the Obama presidency...

The Wall Street Protestors are not going to vote Republican. It will be an asset in the Presidential race.

The lines are clear, you are either for helping the middle class, or helping the rich.

I don't care who they vote for. It doesn't change that I agree with some of the varied reasons that they are there, and that Obama has failed as a president. Being middle class it appears that Obama only wants to take what I have to give to others. He is holding the middle class back so they cannot move further along the economic scale.

Lets see now who will more than likely get the economy moving....educated serious professionals with experience working in banks and on wall street or a pack of filthy hippies.????

I know I will go with the filthy hippies. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Facts? Why would Obama be interested in that? He hasn't been concerned with facts for almost 3 years - why start worrying about facts now?

The "fat cats" who got us into this awful mess are in Washington D.C. not on Wall Street.

Eric-913730

The Wall Street Protestors are not going to vote Republican. It will be an asset in the Presidential race.

The lines are clear, you are either for helping the middle class, or helping the rich.

Really? You mean the middle class who works for companies owned by those rich folks? I mean... <sarcasm>Hang the rich! But we want jobs!</end sarcasm>

Liberalism is truly a disease affecting the ability to reason.

It is pretty clear to ... well, anyone who bothers to look that the GOPTP simply wants to eliminate the middle and poor classes ("the 99%) and bring America to ruin. And by eliminate, I am saying that in a holocaust kind of way - they want us all dead.

It is also pretty clear to anyone with a brain what the Occupy Wall St. movement is all about. So for the GOPTP's to act clueless (by saying things like "they don't even know what they are protesting for", or "they are just a bunch of bums and hippies" or even better, calling the protesters "a mob") is quite amusing really - I ask myself are they really that stupid or are they just acting like it?

Obviously, terriels, you have not seen the film clips of their answers ! LOL !!

terriels -

Proof please.

The only person your claims seem to be 'clear' to is you. Why don't you produce some hard evidence to make your point?

Or are you actually Obama using a 'nom de plume'?

@terriel..... "... the GOPTP simply wants to eliminate the middle and poor classes ("the 99%) and bring America to ruin. And by eliminate, I am saying that in a holocaust kind of way - they want us all dead."

Wow... you go all in when spout your progressive idiocy don't you? But please continue to do so. It allows everyone to see the depths progressives are willing to go in trying to create an enemy that they can then demonize by telling outlandish lies. Hey terriel, you left out the part about how the GOP/TP kick puppies, eat kittens and kill unborn babies.... Oh yea, it's the progressives that promote the killing of unborn children... my bad.

What does Obama have left? His smile that some find charming. His con-man ability that the majority of voters in 2008 were fooled by. Last but not least. his ego, which if all else fails, will never let him down.

Other than that he is pretty much BUSTED!

It occurs to me that if Fox had told the truth when Bush was in office we might not have been in Iraq which cost a couple trillion dollars and Afghanistan (without the distraction) would be over with already. Just goes to show though, the "liberal media" has a better grasp on the truth than faux news, if they're willing to report it when it hurts.

Eric, 90% of the protesters have no idea why they are there.

@Terry-3860888

If you've read what Obama said about the war in Iraq in his book "The Audacity of Hope" there is 1/2 percent probability that you will change your view about the war in Iraq. Here it is:

"Like most analysts, I assumed that Saddam had chemical and biological weapons and coveted nuclear arms, I believed that he had repeatedly flouted UN resolutions and weapons inspectors and that such behavior had to have consequences. That Saddam butchered his own people was undisputed; I had no doubt that the world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him."

Did you read the books that he wrote by the way? I did. "Dreams FROM my Father" was something that made me understand why he is doing what he is doing.

Brian...Why did it take the President so long to come up with this? Why didn't he offer something that he knew the Republicans could agree with?

The fact is this jobs bill has more to do with a political calculation and less to do with actually getting people to work.

The Republicans in the Senate TRIED to take a Vote.....whiny Reid cried NO!

WHY......because Democrats in the Senate and 15 in Congress said THEY will vote NO!

Congress passed a jobs bill......it's sitting on Reid's desk.....he refuses to bring that to a vote also!

Obama WANTS this bill to fail so he has more Lies to tell his Sheep on the Campaign trail!

BrentAZ, the Republicans aren't going to agree to a jobs bill that will actually produce jobs. It's counterproductive to their goal of making Obama a one term President.

Patty, that's a political stunt by the Republicans. In fact, the new bill written to make the case that Republicans will do anything to protect a millionaire will be put up for a vote. Watch the Republicans vote it down and once again take the side of the rich.

Eric...So your excuse for Obama is that the other guy is doing it too? This is like the explaining Obama's over-spending by point out how much Bush spent. Ridiculous.

Brian, please do some research and count how many times in 3 years Obama has said "I gonna focus like a laser on jobs". So has it taken 3 years to finally focus that laser. That just proves what a poor leader he is.

The laser is focused now?

His laser is broken ... it's in the repair shop. He wore it out on Obamacare and Amnesty for Illegals !

Maybe..., just maybe..., his laser light is in a non-visable wavelength...

BrentAZ, as I've said Bush raised spending 88%, and Obama, just 7.2%.

Stop listening to Glenn Beck.

And of course, Eric, you can PROVE he listens to Glenn Beck, can't you ???

Again, your comments have no cohesion ..... perhaps you should join the Wall Street protestors for a day ...... you would fit right in with them ! LOL !!

Eric

You might want to get your facts straight. Obama has spent more than the prevous 43 Presidents COMBINED!

When your lost in the desert and insist on continuing on the wrong trail it is not difficult to understand why so many refuse to support you and go along with you.

odumbo has been going the wrong way since birth.

hey Moses, maybe somebody else can get a peek at the map?? :)

Obama has clearly tried to work with the Republicans. To the detriment of his own party. They will not support anything he offers because it is him offering it. Even when it their own policy. They put up extreme right wing policy that they know hasn't a chance of passing as a dodge.

Oh hell, you know all this stuff. Everybody does. They want him out and they are willing to damage the economy and recovery to do it.

Problem is people aren't quite as stupid as they need them to be for this to work.

It certainly seems to work for you, Brian.

Eric wants to give Obama credit for killing Bin Laden, but when it comes to Barack flushing 535 Million down the toilet on Solyndra, that was Bush's fault.
Obama is a deer in headlights.

Eric-913730

BrentAZ, the Republicans aren't going to agree to a jobs bill that will actually produce jobs. It's counterproductive to their goal of making Obama a one term President.

Patty, that's a political stunt by the Republicans. In fact, the new bill written to make the case that Republicans will do anything to protect a millionaire will be put up for a vote. Watch the Republicans vote it down and once again take the side of the rich.

Eric, please describe to me the process in which the government creates 'jobs'. I always thought that it was the market that produces jobs, and the governments job not to intervene. Seems all the intervention creates a hesitant market.

There is no such things as a 'Jobs' bill. The only engine for job creation is the private sector, and in that regard if you want job production - then stop attempting to legislate your way to growth.

"It is not the nature or merit of the intervention by the government, but the fact the government intervenes at all which truly destabilizes a market." - T. Sowell

Liberalism is truly a disease affecting a person's ability to reason.

Derek, FDR did it.....it was called an infrastructure program.

Eric -

And it caused the depression to last over 10 years. It wasn't until this country geared up for WWII that the depression ended.

Throwing good money after bad does not work!

Eric again, this is the same bill that the filibuster proof senate voted down in 2009. Any intelligent person knows that reid does not have the support of his democrat senators. That is the bottom line. He knows this is just another attempt at a stimulus bill and deficit spending, when the first stimulus did not do what obama and the democrats promised. You would be out there bloviating if the Republicans refused to let it come to a vote. It is pathetic that the same liberals are claiming politics, when they actually want the bill to come to the senate floor and vote. The dems and liberals are the only obstacles for this to be voted on.

Brian,

Obama has tried working with the Republicans? No I beg to differ with you. Obama has been playing the Democrats against the Republicans since he took office. He started out simply using the Democrats to get what he wanted. Then when that cost them control of the House in 2010 he started playing the Republicans against the Democrats so openly that only a blind deaf mute would have missed it. Bold example: The Debt Ceiling debate that took place just this year. Obama didn't like what the House Republicans had proposed and at the time neither he nor the Senate Democrat had proposed anything! What does Obama do? He tells all of Congress that it makes no difference if the House Republicans come up with something that the Senate Democrats can both agree on "HE WILL VETO IT".....PERIOD... Hearing this the Senate declares the second bill to fix the debt ceiling D.O.A. Then at the 11th hour the Con-Man of Reason swoops in to save us all and in doing so bypasses the Senate Democrats, gets in bed with the Republicans, and they come up with a miracle bill to save this country from default. It plays out just like a day time soap opera (which I wouldn't be surprised is where Obama got the idea) and all Obama's playing the Republicans against the Democrats cost us was this country's AAA credit rating for the first time in the history of this country, as in THIS NEVER HAPPENED WHILE ANOTHER POTUS WAS IN OFFICE EITHER REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT! The best part is that Obama managed to make it look like it was all the fault of a dysfunctional congress when in fact he was sabotaging things from the beginning! Wake up man and see Obama for what he is and that is a under qualified Con-man, who may have been a pretty good community organizer but is a sorry excuse for our POTUS. It is becoming more and more apparent almost every day now that being our POTUS is nothing but a power trip/game to Obama and he will use anyone and everyone he thinks he needs to use to keep his job for as long as possible. It is time for him to go as it is the only chance we have to keep this country financially solvent. Another 4 years of Obama will destroy us and possibly beyond repair.

Ernie. Thanks. Finally someone who knows what is truly going on.

To all liberal democrats who supported him and are still supporting him, it is quite obvious that Obama is indefensible admit it or not.

Ernie. Thanks. Finally someone who knows what is truly going on.

Wrong Mark, its finally someone from the left openly throwing Obama not under the bus but under the train.

All of you on the left truly believe that this "jobs" bill is the saving grace for a 2nd term?? If that's what you think you are sorely mistaken. This jobs bill, if passed, will not save this President's legacy....He has done nothing in his Presidency to make many think he warrants a 2nd term...But dream on people...This is just like 2004/2008 when it was anyone but Bush...Funny how the circle has come back around huh....Did the sh*t boomerang hurt much when it smacked you in the back of the head??

I seem to recall Bush getting reelected. Let me know how that boomerang feels when it hits next year because you can't field a legitimate candidate.

Oh that's clever! Come up with that by yourself?

It died under Bush, Obama's trying to revive it.

Republicans continue to keep smothering it with a pillow.

The only thing he's interested in reviving is his BILLION dollar Campaign Tour on his MILLION dollar "Canadian made" BUS!

If, as you state eric, the Republicans are the ones trying to smother the economy, how do you explain the more than 100 jobs bills passed by the House that sit on Reids desk! By the way that is even the current fate of Obamas own "American Jobs Bill", and several budget proposals sent by the House!

This is what happens when you give power to polititians who dont have to look people in the face. Push power back down to state and locals. Worst case, the screwups will be localized.

Yeah if Obama's jobs bill is so great why can't he get Harry to hold a vote on it? His bill does not even have a co-sponsor. Harry tabled it because even though the Democrats have a majority it still won't pass because half the Democrats will not vote for it.

Ted more like 13.....they are all air and water deregulation and more drilling in the gulf of mexico.

They definitely not jobs bills.

Eric -

Just how will allowing drilling in the Gulf NOT produce jobs? Do you have any proof? Any proof at all?

Consider - The moratorium caused over 20,000 jobs directly due to drilling to be lost along the gulf coast. This does not count the estimated 100,000+ jobs in support and ancillary services that have been lost. If drilling is allowed again, jobs for the rigs would be produced, trickling through the economy as people start spending money again.

Now I know how uninformed you really are.

What's the matter, Eric, still no rebuttal?

obama is trying to revive it by putting out another failed stimulus and the only thing obama is accomplishing is bankrupting our country.

Maybe his administration should stop blocking the oil pipeline from Canada to Texas and get those union and non-union workers back to work without needing Federal funding intervention! IF infrastructure construction workers are scuh a challenge , why doesn't the Obama Administration do as the Republicans suggested and start prioritizingthe current highway funding to get these folks back to work. The Highway fund is not out of money so what is the problem? Everyone would like to have more money to spend on infrastructure and other things, but we have a fiscal problem that the Republicans have been trying to address, but all we see from the Administration is more Federal regulation and EPA delay tactics for programs that could put peeole to work right now! Let's put the blame tail on the right donkey and the asses in the Democratic Party and the White House refuse to take the immediate steps within funding constraints to open up this economy! They would rather take our tax money and fund busineses that don't have an acknowledged business strategy to survive just to "bet" on a win in solar energy! WHy not remove all the driling restrictions that are keeping thousands (probably understated) people from going to work on oil rigs and all the support structure on land.

JIM KUHNHENN wrote this article because the President Obama blasted his asre yesterday.

He only right about one thing Republican are against raising taxes. But are find with letting them expire or middle class and poor.

Keep the bush tax cuts but let the payroll tax expire - Greed for the few and shet for the many.

And you have fools in here agreeing with that trash.

Solutions

Are you aware that the "tax cut" you refference here is from our portion of Social Security? Please explain how we gain by underfunding our own retirement suppliment! It might help to realize that the "rich" you so despise will need this fund far, far, less than most of us.

SO VOTE GOP.

I'm sure the economy would be booming with the GOP in office.

The economy was booming last time lets do it again. Nice plan but it wont work. Because to many people has been effected from the last GOP President.

I don't think anyone believes the GOP with make it better.

A REAL republican (not drunken-sailor Bush) would have let the economy crash harder and quicker. The failures would have failed, their assets bought up by the good mgrs and the recession would have been over before people burned through that 1 yrs savings they always told people to have. We wouldnt have jacked up the debt again and people would have been more leary of the schemes. Just look at the quick pain Reagan put us through to cure carter's stagflation followed by the 2 decades of explosive growth-- for those who were ready for it.

"A REAL republican"....as if the "new" repubs (read TP) wouldn't totally destroy the country in a matter of weeks.

terriels -

Proof please.

terriels loves to come in a spew crap and then leave...He/She will never back up anything he says with anything of substance....

Four More Years!!
Dope and Strange 2012

EXACTLY!

The horrifying Truth is.......if he gets re-elected.....He will do Nothing to save this Country because he can't run for a 3rd term!

He can finally quit Campaigning and just TRAVEL for those 4 years!

For sure....Christmas in Hawaii is booked for the 3rd time!

Couldn't do his fake jobs bill til he rested for 10 days at the Vineyard!

Patty if Obama is re-elected he will ruin this country. Not having to be concerned with re-election, he will be free to put the screws on this country. I certainly hope people will open their eyes before election day because Obama has, for once, told the truth when he shares his true vision for this country.

Yeah, all the repugs said the same thing right before Clinton got reelected.

The good old days. Clinton was president and anybody with a desire to work and a heartbeat could get a job.

Funny thing, repubs give all the credit to the repub congress for that economy, while claiming this current economy is not the fault of the current rebub congress. They don't want people to remember how many of the last 12 years congress was under repub control. The last thing they want to talk about is how many votes the repubs still had when dems had the very slight majority. Repubs either don't know or don't want the public to understand how the voting works.

Bingo !

The growth of our government is like a great cancer upon free enterprise. But Obama's answer to everything is more and more government. Tax and spend or borrow and spend. Meanwhile, businesses are getting choked down by aggressive new EPA regulations running out of control and the impending burden of Obamacare's costs has them scared to hell and back.

But Obama is focused on maintaining power and getting re-elected !!!

yea, like the govt couldnt regulate the banks so they nationalized them instead. ???

Obama has nationalized Health Care in this country. The bill contains about 2,700 pages and the regulations (last I heard) were approaching DOUBLE that in length.

And Obama wonders why the economy is stalled and dangerously close to a double-dip !

YOU just don't get it - there is a spending AND a revenue problem. I am not sure how blind you have to be to not see that.

terriels,

Except for the sneaky little tax increases Obama slipped into his beloved Obamacare, the tax laws today are virtually the same today as they were 10 years ago ++.

Meanwhile, spending has increased dramatically in recent years and Obama stubbornly refuses to offer up a meaningful budget to Congress. Remember, his last budget concep twas voted down 97 to 0 ....... hell, even no one in his own party voted for it !!!!!

jim and Dave, you are both uniformed partisan clowns with no idea what you are talking about.

jim,

you just answered the question but you're too much a hack and one-sided thinking to see it:

the tax laws today are virtually the same today as they were 10 years ago ++.

yes, this is correct. tax law benefiting the top 1 percent perpetrated by the bush admin. has contributed significantly to our problems.

terriels

yes, it is a two sided problem. thankfully, the entire country know this. garbage like this is limited to the extremist mind-set.

Yes, let's Stop the Lies Now ...... I am a CPA and deal with tax returns every year, so I have knowledge of the "Bush tax cuts" that were put into place many years ago, and which WERE EXTENDED under the Obama administration.

I love the haughty little "uninformed partisan clown" line from you. Whenever you libtards cannot sustain a valid argument, it seems your first line of attack is to claim those with opposing views are uneducated, uninformed, the product of inbreeding, yada, yada yada.

The bottom line, however, is that our country has a spending problem..... and that government spending has increased dramatically under the Obama administration. The truth is that Obama has lied and distorted frequently. That is the focus of this article, and that's what gives people like you a bad case of mental trauma when he is caught in his lies !

Good one Alan......they are still drowsy and a little incoherent........they won't do that until he is no longer President.

Good stuff Alan...... But I am getting tired of waiting for Obama's promise of things being on "C Span" to come true. I hope he realizes he only has 14 months left to accomplish this (broken) campaign promise........... PS: Seems like he can't even control Joe Biden and what he says lately. I hope he realizes what Joe says is a "Big F------ Deal"! :)

I have to admit that it is very surprising MSNBC even allowed the article to hit their website. But, have we seen anything on the fast and furious fiasco? holder is up to his ears in this and we have seen almost no reporting from the MSNBC organization. We had an american killed because of this. holder needs to resign at the very least, but should be prosecuted for the murder.

Yes, it is quite interesting that Eric Holder is given a pass on what is now appearing to be a major DOJ coverup.

Of course, MSNBC will speculate for eons on the perceived weaknesses of potential Obama Republican opponents. Speculation and sniping are apparently more newsworthy that what is truly going on with this matter.

yea. Reid is rewriting it while obama blames the GOP for blocking it. Hillarious.

Reid is rewriting ti to provide teh Republican poison pill so Republicans (and many Democrats) will vote against it so they can say that the republicans are blocking people going back to work. At least this article brings some of the truth to light that Republicans are saying to the Obama Administration, prioritize the money you already have and put these folks back to work on what is a priority for the Nation.

The unemployment numbers are FACT!

Saying it will create 1.9 million jobs is an "opinion" and a "Myth".

Where in the world do they get these "supposed" Numbers? Do they pull them out of the sky?

They haven't Balanced the Budget for 3 yrs....but they're REAL at good *making up* numbers.

Kinda like.....we MUST spend a Trillion so unemployment won't go over 8%?

1.9 million ......would love to know who came up with that number. Bigger question is when? A bridge will take years before one shovel is put in the dirt. His bill is directed at propping up union jobs and giving small businesses a SHORT TERM break. We need permanent long term policy adjustments. Like all Republicans have been saying.....lower taxes, less regulations, more drilling

Solutions, it WILL add to the deficit. The payments are over 10 years, so all the spending will increase the deficit, even if hypothetically the bill will not increase the national debt.

The GOP wants EVERYONE to be successful, because that's their base. The Dem's want EVERYONE dependant on the Federal Government, as that is their base.

Solutions,

Don't you remember? The last trillion was suppose to do the same thing. What did we get? No jobs and a trillion more dollars in debt. Do you want to make another big, mistake? This last year all this President did was fly around the Country, stumping. Now his attitude is......we've got to do this now......sign the Bill now......we can't wait.......no time to wait........ This is our leader?

......the UAW, Teachers union, State and Fed emp, and other unions sure did make out better than most from the first Stimulus.......guess thats why unions give 93% of there political donations back to the DNC........$400M in 2008 another $200M in2010. Talk about a racket !!!!

Do any of you repubs either know or remember what the last repub prez did to this economy? We are still living in the Bush nightmare. His legacy has not yet ended.

Do any of you Donkeycrats know that Obama has increased of deficit more in 2 1/2 years than Bush did in 8 years.......and now he wants to add more !!!!!!!

Hiram, If you are not a billionaire or a millionaire you are just a poor sap.

Bush nightmare

In a nightmare you can wake up and find that everything is fine. In a horrifying reality that we are in right now (compliment of the democratic house before they were kicked out, senate and WH) there is no waking up, this is it!

you maybe wireman ..........not me

JamVee -

Let's call this new system the TATTLE-PROMPTER!

I love that! Actually I think there is an app for translating facial patterns into probable truth/ probable lies ..

gimmeAbreak

Perfect name for it! It would be like the "Gong Show", with the buzzer going off about every 5th word. Do you remember that Johnny Carson skit, with the politician hooked up to the lie detector?

Yeah, funny stuff!

Although, I think hooking politicians up to polygraphs should be considered cruelty towards polygraphs.

I mean, there are some things that these poor, wretched machines simply should not be asked to do!

By the way . . . the first production models of the Tattle-Prompter(tm) should probably have triple-redundant "Lie Buzzers," as they will suffer a LOT of initial load use.

Geopolitically, solar is no better than oil. Panels require raw materials that mainly come from hostile countries just like oil. Just DIFFERENT hostile countries.

Actually didn't Solyndra employ 1,100 people for a couple of years?

I won't make excuses for this administration, but I really don't consider Solyndra as bad as the Iraq war by a very big margin. Not every business is going to make it (especially when undermined by the Chinese currency sitch), but it was good to at least start supporting alternate, non-fossil fuel industry, which should be supported and encouraged.

Fitch downgraded Solyndra to BBB in 2008. That's not even investment grade.

Price Waterhouse looked at their business model and did a write up that said it wouldn't work MONTHS BEFORE this loan was made. Panels were made at $6/watt and sold for $3/watt.

This was a no brainer to stay away from with mine and your (and China's) money. I expect better from my govt.

Yet everyone agrees that taxing the wealthy will not solve ANY part of the deficit and that taxing the wealthy won't even pay for this Jobs Bill.

So ... sounds more logical to stop the spending spree as a first step.

Steve: "sounds more logical to stop the spending spree as a first step."

Problem is....how will the liberal fools get their slush fund? Don't forget it was Nancy Pelosi's brother in law who was benefitting from a "green jobs" bail out.

Cant argue with that ....

But the Dems are absolute masters at lying to the public and getting away with it.

They why couldn't he get the exact same tax increases passed when the Dems held the majority in both sides of Congress?

Simple, the majority of Americans couldn't care less about the weathy. However, most don't want to waste anyones money on this administrations policies.

obama doesnt care if it solved the deficit. He just needs to make a big payment to his supporters so they show up on election day. GOP doing the same for their side. They like to say its for the economy so if the economy DOES recover, they have a storyline that lets them claim it. Its called "jumping in front of the parade."

NOT EVERYONE agrees that taxing the wealthy isn't going to help anything - pretty much a huge portion of the country believes that the wealthy paying their fair share would help ALOT. But keep dreaming and burying your head in the piles of cash if you want to.

The 1 million and over tax they are talking about may get you 10 Billion. Maybe. This is a 500 Billion dollar spending spree he is proposing.

McConnell tried to get BO's plan up for a vote in the senate on an ammendmant. Reid changed procedural rules and shut down the vote.

terriels -

Please define what a 'fair share' is to you. It seems to me that you expect those who actually earn their money to pay more than the 70% of government revenues that they already pay. Why can't those who pay NO income taxes contribute as well? Even 1 or 2 % of their income could help.

Tammy, the working poor, like my wife and myself put every dollar that we earn back into the economy. Unfortunately, we live in a smaller town at the moment, where unless you are moving here to retire or are in the military, there aren't really any good paying jobs that you can retire from.

When you actually look at statistics, compared to the money that they are making, the rich aren't paying their fair share. The middle class and poor are killed by all of the other taxes that are on everything.

Say, you are poor and own a home, well, your water heater goes out. That's a $500 fix. When you are poor, this is a major purchase that can disrupt life for months, while you play catch up, just so something else can break down, and you have to play catch up again.

The wealthy can easily afford issues like this, and in a time of hardship, such as the country is in now, those who can afford to pay more taxes to put people back to work in decent paying jobs should. All throughout the history of the U.S. programs have been there to put people back to work such as the Transcontinental Railroad, phone and electric line installation to rural areas, and the highway act FDR put in place. In time of hardship, the government has always put workers back to work improving this country, but what? we aren't going to do it now? We as a country have become too selfish and self-absorbed to care about the rest of the country.

miscreint. I by far, not rich. I am in the middle class. I am sorry, but it is sad that we feel it is ok to tax the wealthy any more. There is 47% of americans that do not pay any federal income tax, at all. That's right 47% pay zero in federal income tax. What people like you do not understand is, if you take money from the people who creat jobs, it is less jobs they will create. Then you say, they are sitting on a ton of money. You're right. Then you have to ask why are they not reinvesting? Bottom line, is that it all falls on obama, the democrats, and the people obama has put in to his administration. Healthcare, excessive rules and regulations, and just the threats of higher taxes. These businesses are so afraid to spend their money, because obama and the dems are threatening to jack their taxes. If reid has his way and raises the taxes on so called millionaires, on average, their income taxes will increase by over $186,000 per year for 10 years. Is that fair? You honestly think that taking 200K more out of peoples pockets is fair? I'm sorry this sounds heartless. If you cannot afford to repair things in your house, then rent. Any rent agreement, the landlord pays for repairs. It is not the government putting people back to work that brings us back. The federal government is the most inefficient spender of our tax dollars. Do you not see all the fraud and waste in every program the feds bring out? We are not the same country as when FDR was President. You are right, we are a selfish country, but we are also spoiled and pampered. We are selfish to think that it is ok to take from others to give to people that do not want to work. It is not what our founding fathers wanted. A large government. If the democrats got their way, every single american would be dependent on the federal government. Something that I have never gotten out of a liberal. How much is enough? What percentage of a person's income is enough? I would just once, like to get a percentage from a democrat or liberal. Would you want 60% of your wages taken for income taxes? Would you want to work your tail end off for free, 60% of the year? Work free for 6 or 7 months? Thais what you are asking for or what is the percent?