Are blacks still banned from the Mormon Church and why more than one Holy Bible? Just asking..

Mormons only believe in one Bible and blacks were never banned from the church

Malen, I don't believe anyone has ever been banned from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints though not all were allowed to hold the Priesthood. As for why more than just the Holy Bible, I guess you would first need to respond to those of the Jewish faith why the New Testament to supplement the Old Testament?

No blacks were ever banned from the Mormon Church, just from church leadership, and No...when you look at the church leadership today you see men and women from all different cultures and races.

Mormons do not have more than one Holy Bible. They do have "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" called the Book of Mormon. Mormon's believe in a Heavenly Father who loves all of his children and who is "the same yesterday, today and forever!" If God spoke to one nation who reverenced him, why wouldn't he speak to another? And if God spoke then, why wouldn't he speak now? The Book of Mormon is a testament of the Savior by the inhabitants of the ancient Americas.

I live in an area with a lot of Mormon's, and the short answer is a mond-boggling "no", but only because I am surprised at your question. Check your facts, there are a lot of Mormon's of color, as well as European or South American. That's the purpose of their missions.

As for me, I can sit back, relax, and watch the show. I don't view Mormon's any differently than born again's, witnesses, or any other faith. Let's go by action, not where you spend a couple of hours worshipping, if you're so inclined. Amen.

Can I really be a God on my own planet? Way Cool!!

"Many GOP-friendly Protestants question if Latter-day Saints are Christians"

The real question is: Is anyone that is a devotee of Black Liberation Theology a Christian ??.....Or Marxist cloaked in the veil of Christianity....

Their Founder "Rev" James Cone says that " The only way white man can have true redemption is to give everything to Black People"

He plays the Oppressed/Oppressor card....that is the basis of this religion

Pay particular attention around Minute Mark 10:00 forward.

Jeremiah Wright learned everything he knows from James Cone and Barry Obama learned everything he knows on his theology from 20 years of Jeremiah Wright....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1X5sZ6Q4Fw

I do not see Romney's faith influencing my decision on whether or not to vote for him. Regardless of the specific religion he follows, I am more concerned with what his values are. The fact that certain people are trying to make an issue out of Romney's faith is wrong and would drive me away from any candidates that did not denounce those effort. Romney's faith should not be an issue, the issue should be his values and character. On those counts, these preachers do not have a leg to stand on since Romney seems to be a pretty straight forward person. I wish this whole issue of Romney being a Mormon would just go away - it is irrelevant to me.

Blacks were banned from the Mormon church because Joseph Smith taught [before it became politically incorrect and the Mormon leadership changed it] they had the "mark of Cain" as evidenced by their black skin. If Mormons dug deep into the roots of their doctrines they would find many surprising facts. www.utlm.org

Go to www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon132.html to learn more.

The best place to find correct information about the Mormons and what they believe is to go directly to www.mormon.org.

My issues with the LDS church stem from the church's control over its members. Granted they still have free will but from what I've witnessed, these members must do as the church says or risk being excommunicated. I wouldn't vote for me If I was someone who did as some of the wacky folks in my church leadership has suggested. It seems much more rigid for LDS members and I do not want the LDS church running this country.

If you want the truth about wha Joseph Smith really taught and the truth about Mormonism, go to people who were once dedicated Mormons who learned the truth. www.utlm.org

I wonder what part of "No religious test for office" everyone has missed. Of course mormans are christians. They believe in christ, I find it amazing that christians try to knock even a subset of their own religion and do not get that they are doing a great job knocking their own in the process.

Magic underwear or magic crackers make very little difference to someone looking at it from the outside.

Donna

Dedicated?.....I think not.

So what you're saying is that 14 million people are all in a conspiracy to lie to the world and just pretend they believe in Christ? Then just to make the conspiracy look really good they call themselves "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints". These guys are good. A religion can't make people do anything.....at least not in America. People belong to a religion because they choose to. If the LDS church has stiff requirements, it must mean that the people who choose to belong are probably trying to be better people. I can't fault them for that.

You ignorant fools on the Right are Hilarious. One minute President Obama is a Muslim who is against Christianity and the next minute, he is a Christian who listened to Rev Jeremiah Wright's Black Liberation version of Christianity. Make up your mind as to what fantasy you want to promote you simple minded tools!

in the LDS Church, if you are banned from the priesthood, you ARE banned from the church! And it is very true that LDS Church members are told to believe that their three books are just as inspired as The Bible.

HOWEVER, anybody who has ever lived inside the Southern Baptist Church and had the intellectual honesty to leave it will tell you: Tninhe Baptist Church is also a cult. It insists on its own narrow interpretation of the Christian scriptures. It demands uniformity of belief and practice. It excommunicates any believer who disagrees with The Baptist tradition.

So, Rev. Jeffress, you should know from cults. You are a great big old cult leader. You even look a bit like the Radical LDS Reverend Jeffs, who just got convicted of sex with minor children. Sure there's not a little connection here, Rev?

I believe the "And I'm a mormon" television ad campaign we've been seeing in the last two weeks is the Mormon church politicking for Mitt Romney, while sidestepping federal election campaign laws.

No...I have no proof, but why now, and why no tag lines or website/ph. numbers?

Ghost--just believing that Christ "exists" and following some of His teachings is not what makes a person a Christian. Faith in His atonement for our sins alone as our path to salvation is the core of what makes a Christian, and following all His teachings and no other man's. Jesus Himself also said He was the fulfillment of the Jewish law--those teachings provide the framework and foundation of the Christian faith, in which the triune God is the one and only God.

To the point that Mormons include doctrine that departs from that framework, eg, that humans can "become a God" and rule over a planet (which BTW is only for men) through charitable deeds and, in some sects, by having many submissive wives---is when they depart from Christianity. None of that can be found anywhere in the Judeo-Christian scripture/theology. It is a Joseph Smith addendum.

Having said that, I would vote for a Mormon, Jew, Athiest, Hindu or Muslim if they fought for similar values and governing philosophies as my own.

Marlen,

It's cooler than just that. It may be that you don't just get your own planet but an entire Universe too. Also, Women are not excluded. They are treated as equals and can be Godesses too, and they get to decide if they want their husbands based on how they were treated by them in this life. The Mormon theology is one of the reasons Utah was one of the first states to allow Women to vote.

Harry Reid is a Mormon.....does he get a special dispensation ???

There's a church for acid? Where can I find this LSD church? That would be a cool way to listen to the brainwashing from the religious. I for one don't want a thumper of any religion spewing their bullcrap from the White House.

D123--some Mormon fundamentalist sects do insist that only men will get to be a God. The more wives, the greater the power in the afterlife.

Yes, blacks were not welcome ... or whatever you want to call it. My family was gathered in front of the TV in the late seventies when the church leader (bishop) announced he had a vision from the Lord and the church would in future grant full church privileges to blacks. The temple I used to attend taught some pretty dumb and racist stuff. One of the reasons I quit asked to be "excommunicated" back in the mid-seventies.

Under the racial restrictions that lasted from the presidency of Brigham Young until 1978, persons with any black African ancestry could not hold the priesthood in the LDS Church and could not participate in some temple ordinances, such as the Endowment and celestial marriage. Black people were permitted to be members of the church, and participate in other temple ordinances, such as baptism for the dead.^[20]

The racial restriction policy was applied to black Africans, persons of black African descent, and any one with mixed race that included any black African ancestry. (from Wiki)

Mormon's scare me because they must take direction from their church leaders and really can't think for themselves (unless of course it's "approved" thought). They are also largely bigoted, racist and self-serving from my own experience. I'm not sure how a good Mormon could possibly NOT be bigoted since this was/is the teaching of the church they so fervently believe in. No, black people are not mainstreamed-Mormons even today...

Of course I have many of the same concerns with other Christians in cults like Catholics, Evangelicals, orthodox Jews, Baptists and others. They are all dangerous because they base their beliefs on nonsense, conjecture, scripture, dogma or just plain greed... anything really besides facts, reason and science.

Sorry, we don't live in ancient times with voodoo and superstition dominating humanity anymore... we need to purge the destructive influence of religion from politics and government (i.e. virulent ignorance) where they only serve to harm us all and threaten to push America back into the Dark Ages as the rest of the world moves on.

AZPADDY

The "And I'm A Mormon" ad campaign has been a project in the works for a few years. Your conspiracy theroy notwithstanding it predates the Romney run. Sorry to disappoint you

Donna your hatred for other peoples faith is ugly and it doesn't look good on you.

Go to the horse's mouth to find out what Mormon's really believe. Asking a Catholic what a Baptist believes or a Muslim what a Methodist believes doesn't get anyone anywhere with any correct information. www.mormon.org and www.lds.org are the official LDS/Mormon sites for the church.

ThereseinAZ - Thumbs up. There is no substitute for shootin' from the hip.

I don't like Romney not because he is a Mormon but because he is a Rockefeller republican. It's the SSDD syndrome all over again. don't like the way he votes. Part of the problem not the solution.
See the MICHIGAN NEWSPAPER EDITORIAL By Ken Herbor of Tawas City . "What America has become. Sad but true.

"In the poll, 66 percent of Republican primary voters said they had no concerns about Romney's faith or its effect on his potential presidency; only 13 percent said they were concerned."

Yes MSNBC it's the "GOP-friendly Protestants" who put "Romney's faith in the spotlight".... so much so that a whopping 13% care.

It's difficult to be all liberal while belittling someone's religion isn't it? Don't worry writing that "other" people have an issue when they clearly don't is really covering your hypocrisy well. (sarcasm)

Well, I don't know much about The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints, but I do know for sure that Jews are not Christian (although Christ was Jewish). Since this Pastor, and apparently Perry, think only Christians should be President, I'm guessing they don't think a person of the Jewish faith should be President either.

Romney's faith isn't a factor for me, but Perry's faith is certainly objectionable! Religious intolerance has no place in the United States.

Marlen, just where did you get that blacks were not allowed in the Mormon church.

Spread lies is all you are doing.

I really don't care if Mormons allow black people to join or not. Our constitution covers their religion regardless. There are worse things than A Mormon running for office. For instance a nice Muslim who thinks sharia law should also be covered under Constitutional protection. Women might want to pay attention to that you could be stoned for driving a car, or sitting in the front, or speaking you mind.

stclaire-3822173

For nearly 150 years, the Mormon Church had taught thatALL blacks were cursed and their black skin was a punishment. Hence, a black Mormon male could not hold the highly regarded LDS Priesthood1 because of his dark skin. And since he could not hold this Priesthood, he could not enter the Mormon Temple. This doctrine in no way, shape, or form can be substantiated in Scripture. Only in the LDS scriptures does this racist doctrine exist.

This was changed in 1978 but not all Mormons have welcomed the change!

Blacks were not banned from the church. They were, however, not eligible to become elders in the church. That practice was ended more than a generation ago.

Christians, including Mormons, and followers of most other religions believe in events and ideas that are unprovable and, in many cases, impossible without violating the laws of Nature. Those who would govern by those beliefs are not reasonable candidates for public office.

God of Abraham has been dissected so much that it is disconnected from the human race, at least for the normal man to aspire..as far as the political race did we not separate already.

don97524 ... It was not that they were simply "not eligible to become elders in the church".

You sir need to study and research a little better. The the whole concept of "The Curse of Cain" was very degrading to blacks.

Blacks were in FACT looked upon as if they were inferior!!!!

And this was until 1978!!!!!!!!

It was not until 1995 that the Southern Baptist Convention officially renounced its "racist roots."^[17] Nearly all Protestant groups in America had supported the notion that black slavery, oppression, and African colonization was the result of God's curse on people with black skin or people of African descent through Cain or through the curse of Ham, and some churches practiced racial segregation as late as the 1990s . Today, however, official acceptance and practice of the doctrine among Protestant organizations is limited almost exclusively to churches connected to white supremacy, such as the Aryan World Church and the New Christian Crusade Church.

Rainman #1.27

"The "And I'm A Mormon" ad campaign has been a project in the works for a few years."

And Mitt Romney has been planning to run for a few years.

"Your conspiracy theroy notwithstanding it predates the Romney run. Sorry to disappoint you"

On the contrary. I'm glad to know more. We libs can be like that. You seem to have more knowledge of this ad campaign than me, so please....share more information about the LDS church and their decision to run these ads now.

I knew it most likely wasn't the amazing coincidence it appears to be.

Many people are deceived and not just Mormons...but since this is a discussion about Mormomism I am not saying most Mormons are intentionally lying...what I am saying is most Mormons are deceived and are in turn deceiving others. Please go to this site and find out for yourself. www.utlm.org

As Christians we need to know what we believe so we aren't deceived by those who are deceived.

Matthew 7:15 - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Jude 1:3 - Beloved, although I was eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

As a woman I am not fond of a religion that has a sect where women are treated as inferiors and married off as children, bit the main-stream Mormon church does hold values very high, and I think that would be a nice change of pace in the White House.

Matthew 15:14 - "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

To Find Out the Truth About Mormonism go to www.utlm.org

Any Southern White Protestant who is criticizing the racism in the Mormon church should look at the lack of African American representation in their own church.

@Donna-3896926

Do you give equal attention to other religions who don't share the same exact beliefs that you have? Here is an idea. Maybe you could spend your time educating people as to what you believe, rather than misinforming people about what Mormons believe.

The mere existence of your website, along with your posts in this forum, implies that you believe that we, "Mormons" are either too stupid to know and understand what we believe or we are liars. That is quite a baseless accusation to make.

When all is said and done, what really matters is that religion should not be part of politics. Take note that it was these fanatical so-called "Christians" who are mixing church with state by perpetuating the discussion of Romney's religion rather than acknowledging that we have just as much of a right as you do to practice our religion. Neither Mitt Romney nor the Mormons have an agenda to turn this country into a theocracy or impose our religion on others. Religion is irrelevant.

I'm not sure when the "I'm a Mormon " ads started. I seem to remember them from a long time ago- but I may be mistaken.

Is the Church running them now for a reason? Yes- because of the very thing we are discussing today- what exactly is a Mormon? I don't believe the ads say "Vote for Romney or Huntsman!" So it would be fair to say- they don't break any campaign laws.

There are , as you can see, a lot of misconceptions about the Church. Some things about the Church's past are ugly- and the Church is not proud of them. But the Church has grown past that- and let that stuff in the past where it should be.

Members are good, honest Christian people. They subscribe to the notion of helping their fellow man, as we are judged by our works- "for faith without works is dead." As far as blacks in the Church- there aren't a lot in the US- but the Church is growing rapidly in other countries in Africa and elsewhere. All are welcome.

and I will admit there are some bad seeds in the Church. There are people who do not hold the regard for the faith as they should. But I am not their judge- that is God's responsibility (and thank goodness- I wouldn't want the job!!). Some have had bad experiences brought on by bad people- and for that I am truly sorry. But the Church over all is one of hope and faith- looking for a brighter future day by day through and by living the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

and Donna- if you seriously want to judge the Church by what happened almost 200 years ago- then fine, BUT!!! you had better do the same for the Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Protestants, Jews, Islam, etc...

I have to laugh when I run into those "good Christians" who put down other races, faiths and all people who are gay. I call them by two different names. One is "The Practicing Christian". Those are the ones who are practicing Christianity, but need lots and lots of practice because they just aren't quite making it. The other is, "The Part Time Christian of Convenience". Those are the ones that put the Christian face on when around others that don't know them very well. They normally give themselves away when they let something slip when talking, like not caring for others of another race, faith or for being gay. And when they are caught doing it, they swear that God is ok with it, because the Bible says so. I have a friend like this, and when he pushes me into going to church with them, I tell him that it would be fun just to go and watch people learning something new that they will never put into practice. I told him it's not good thing to call oneself a Christian, when they don't even try to follow all of the teachings. Needless to say, I was told that I needed to be saved, and may go to Hell for feeling that way. I normally tell him thanks for the laugh.

@geekfish

You are absolutely correct. The "I'm a Mormon" ad campaign has been going on for several years. It has nothing to do with any political campaign. Our church actually prohibits the endorsement of any political candidate by the church as a whole or even at the local congregational level. Members of our church are free to choose whatever political party they would like to affiliate with and support any political candidate they choose.

These ads you might be seeing on TV, radio, etc are simply a campaign that is intended to invite people to have a better understanding of who Mormon's really are. They are NOT and endorsement for Romney, or Huntsman for that matter.

It is funny that it is not the Mormons who are bringing their religion into politics, but rather other denominations who insist on making our religion a political issue. We respect the rights of all politicians to practice whatever religion they choose without judging their ability to serve in a public capacity based on their religious beliefs.

Any adult that can believe that made up stuff about an angel moroni, that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Jews - that sort of thing - is ridiculous.

Romney has backed away from Mass. health care - but that was a positive for me, I'm hoping the Affordable Healthcare Act will be improved upon - not gotten rid of. He has pandered to the right wingers - big negative - deadly error. But that was a waffling thing, not religion. Romney isn't dead in the water for the GOP, he does not seem uber religious so may be viable to the independents - it may be the best they've got. And not good enough.

@Cassandra

You are misinformed. We do not believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Jews. Jews, or those who descend from the tribe of Judah, make up one of the tribes of Israel.

And yes, we believe in angels--and so do billions of "ridiculous" people of other denominations.

@simple, you say that, but forget to add that you DO believe that Jesus came to the Americas after he died. You did believe in the mark of Caine (darker people are that way because they are bad). You believe Joseph Smith in the 1800s was visited by Angels and wrote the Book of Mormon from the magic plates he was given. You do believe you can baptize the dead. There are a bunch of other crazy things that Mormons believe, but those are the ones that I know you won't argue with, and your everyday baptist or catholic isn't going to like any of them.

Mormons are every bit as much a cult as Scientologists, just a hundred years older. Don't feel too bad though, all the other religions are cults too.

Atheists rely on evidence, logic, and reason, not myth, indoctrination, and superstition, yet it will be a long time before the U.S. elects one of us either.

AZparts? As for why more than just the Holy Bible, I guess you would first need to respond to those of the Jewish faith why the New Testament to supplement the Old Testament?

I thought the Jewish faith didn't believe in or followed the New Testament.

At any rate, what faith he follows or doesn't follow makes no difference. He should, in America, be allowed to follow any faith he wishes, or not follow a religious faith at all. I won't vote for Romney, but then I especially won't vote for Perry because he lets this question lay there without renouncing it.

I won't vote republican at all but that isn't what this article is about.

Anyone who has read the "Book of Mormon," and who has any linguistic sensitivity, can see at close inspection that the writings of Joseph Smith (and that is what the book is) are incomparably inferior to the books of the Bible, both Old Testament and New.

There is a pseudo-biblical "flavor" to the writings, yes. Just the thing you would expect from a nineteenth century man who had read the English language version of the Bible.

But the language is convoluted, the statements are often grammatically ill-formed, redundant, and verbose, abounding in misplaced modifiers, pretentiousness and grandiosity. The lack of clarity and directness that is so typical of ALL the biblical writers is perhaps the first impression available to the literate reader of the "Book of Mormon," and quite apart from any theological questions this is a glaring flaw that is characteristic of the entire book! An honest comparison the "Book of Mormon" with, for example, the quotations of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, aside from doctrinal differences (there are many) reveals the "Book of Mormon" to have been written by a person who had a great deal of trouble making any kind of clear, direct, simple statement. But of course, this is exactly what one would expect from someone who was trying to invent a fictitious "ancient" text.

I would not for a second hesitate to suggest that a scholarly study of the book by professional linguists would turn up a large number of words that could not possibly have existed at the time the original was supposedly written "on (now lost) golden plates." as is claimed.

Just look at the language of the passages people. That's all you have to do. It is in every measurable literary way an inferior work full of convoluted and muddled sentences overflowing with grandiose nineteenth-century pretentiousness.

It must be clear to every linguistically sensitive person, and an altogether closed case to any linguistic scholar, that the Book of Mormon was written by a nineteenth-century mind. And not to rub it in or speak from mere bigotry and distaste, but that nineteenth-century mind was quite plainly not nearly so intelligent as it imagined itself to be. The book may reflect an intimacy with biblical language and passages, but it is quite in truth a profoundly ignorant product of a very limited human intellect. The spirit of God does not speak through its pages to any but the very most gullible of people. I am aware that atheists make the same claim about the pages of the Bible. I am also perfectly ready to refute everything such men have to say and show clearly how wrong they are! But there is not one person on earth who could intelligently defend the "Book of Mormon" against the very obvious flaws I have thus far mentioned.

Aside from the obvious literary shortcomings of the work and its doctrinal heresies, it has one glaring FLAW that PROVES IT CONCLUSIVELY TO BE A LIE to anyone who truly worships the Biblical God.

THERE IS NO PROPHECY IN THE BOOK WHATSOEVER.

Well, one could point to ONE thing, and that only, but it is truly not at all a prophecy original to the "Book of Mormon."

The God of Abraham never does anything unless he first sends a prophet to prepare the people for it. Moses wrote that the one sure way to identify a messenger from God was that a true messenger from God WOULD PREDICT THE FUTURE AND HIS PREDICTIONS WOULD COME TRUE.

This is more sure than miracles, or any other kind of "authenticating" action on the part of anyone who claims to speak for God. Pharaoh's magicians duplicated some of Moses' miracles. The dragon of the Revelation to John was given the power to work miracles to deceive all the people of the world.

BUT ONLY A TRUE PROPHET OF ALMIGHTY GOD CAN PREDICT A FUTURE THAT DOES NOT PROVE FALSE.

Every book of the Bible contains passages that are prophetic. You may not know them or recognize them when you see them, but they are there. And the prophecies in the Bible have repeatedly proven to have been true.

But there are no prophecies in the "Book of Mormon."

Unless you take the prophecy that the Apostle John will reappear on earth before the end of the world. This statement, in the "Book of Mormon" is offered as an excuse for the reason that there are no prophecies in the "Book of Mormon." Clearly, the author of that book did not want to be caught making any predictions that could have proven him to be the liar that he was.

But that one statement is not really any valid evidence that the Book of Mormon contains a prophecy, even if it proves true. Because the Holy Bible predicts the very same thing if you read it all and you understand what you're reading. That's why Joseph Smith knew this well enough to add to this prophecy a few details that are either explicit or implicit in the pages of the Bible or common-sense corollaries of those--for example, the fact that John would write many things for the putting down of false doctrines.

Granted, no other group is making very much of this prophecy. Most Christians don't even know of it. But this just teaches us a somewhat different lesson about God than Joseph Smith could ever have been aware of.

Every one that directs the attention of the wider audience toward the God of Abraham, is given some unique piece of the puzzle that no one else has, EVEN IF THAT PERSON IS ALL OTHER WAYS A COMPLETE HERETIC, even if that person has never heard of the God of Abraham, AND EVEN IF THAT PERSON DOES NOT HIMSELF BELIEVE IN GOD. This simply makes sense, because we are all brothers.

So you may very well find a grain of truth in every religion, or even in an atheist.

After all, there is only ONE light that "enlightens every man that comes into the world."

And there is only one WAY; HE also is the TRUTH and is also THE ONLY LIFE.

As for the Father having a corporeal body, John tells us that "No man has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

This is clearly true, because Jesus Himself said,

"No man knows the Son but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him."

Thus the Mormons are wrong, both about Jesus not being begotten of the Father (the Apostle John tells us plainly that JESUS WAS BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER.") and about the Father having a corporeal body. It is necessary that the Son reveal the Father to men for the very reason that THE FATHER CANNOT BE SEEN. This is like saying that it takes light to reveal to you what an EYE is. You cannot see your own eyes, especially when there is no light, but you know that you have them because you can see LIGHT. The Son is the LIGHT of LIFE and the Father is the SEEING of LIFE and these two are ONE experience of BEING LIFE. To talk about the Father and the Son standing "side-by-side" as though they were two different people is an absurdity. God is ONE BEING. Your body doesn't stand "beside" your field of vision. Your body and your field of vision are ONE experience. The physical eye is one thing. The ABILITY TO SEE is not a physical thing. Neither is it separate from your physical eye--the two are ONE thing; yet, in your mind, you can discern a distinction between the eye and the light, how SEEING and BEING SEEN differ. The Son of God came to man in a tangible form, as a physical man. But the Mind of God the Father which was in Jesus the Son of Man cannot be seen except by its effects; it is revealed through the things that mind DOES using that which IS visible to us. Mormon teaching on this is beneath childish and primitive, and amounts to a form of pagan deification of that which is only physical and material. For a Mormon to claim that they have "seen" God the Father standing somewhere apart from Jesus is somewhat loosely analogous to saying that they have "seen" the inside of someone's mind, or the center of a living person's brain AND THEREFORE KNOW THAT IT IS DIFFERENT ENTITY FROM THAT PERSON.

And John's words are trustworthy, whereas those of Joseph Smith contradicting him are not. Those who teach that the bible is corrupted and full of errors to justify rejecting this truth are not credible PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY THEN TURN AROUND AND CALL THEMSELVES LIARS BY CLAIMING ALSO TO BELIEVE THE BIBLE.

There are many more heresies in the "Book of Mormon" that unequivocally contradict the plain teachings of the New Testament, and these are readily apparent to anyone who reverences AND KNOWS the teachings of the New Testament. But I will add only one thing further to the list of Mormon heresies now for lack of endurance to list them all:

Mormons refer to a passage in the Book of Ezekiel in which the prophet is told to put together two sticks (books) and bind them together in his hand as one book. Mormons falsely teach that this means that the Bible is to be bound together with the Book of Mormon as one book. BUT THIS IS A HUGE MONSTROUS LIE THAT IS FALSE ON ITS FACE.

The two books that the prophet Ezekiel was to bind together in his hands as a sign unto God's people that they are parts of One and the Same BOOK are THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT.

For Mormons to appropriate this scripture to themselves is the worst kind of egotistical and self-serving arrogance and vanity. It is altogether ignorant. For Joseph Smith to have twisted these words to serve his own nefarious ends was nothing less than despicable. For Joseph Smith's one and only purpose was to create a "religion" that could meet the definition under the United States Constitution so that he could proclaim that polygamy, which was an accepted practice in Old Testament times, should be allowed under U.S. law. And thus, he created another "testament" so suit his own lusts.

For two thousand years those words in Ezekiel have been perfectly clear and show themselves to conform in every way to the unity of the Bible.

The same cannot be said of anything that Joseph Smith ever said or wrote, and that applies in particular to the diabolical heresy known as the "Book of Mormon."

"And this is the will of Him that sent me; that every one that sees the Son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life:"

"Not that any man hath seen the Father, save He which is of God, he hath seen the Father."

"I am the Light of the world" he that follows me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have everlasting life"

"Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Phillip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

How sayest thou then 'Show us the Father'?

Don't you not know who I am, YET?

Delete the second "m" in mormon...........

D123 wrote:

Marlen,

It's cooler than just that. It may be that you don't just get your own planet but an entire Universe too.

I have a friend who is Mormon who told me this 30 years ago. Being a "creative type," I thought it would be pretty cool too. Unfortunately, being agnostic has me doubting it. Every religion has something that just sounds too good to be true. (Just before they pass the collection plate.)

;)

Does Romney think for himself or does he let the LDS leadership make decisions for him? Since I cannot answer that question, I cannot vote for him because the LDS church is not open to examination. It is secretive, and I do not like how it treats its members and especially how it treats women in general. Women are second-class citizens in the LDS church and there is no denying that fact.

It never fails to amaze me what some people think is important.

I could care less about a candidate's religion. If I cared, I would be in church.

We are talking about a President, not a Priest.

ThereseAZ - I hope you will be my friend. I completely agree with your post.

I just love love love all the "No True Scotsman" fallacies getting tossed around.

Oh, that's doesn't mean you are Christian - THIS means you are Christian!

It's all subjective, get over yourselves. If someone calls themselves a Christian, they are a Christian. You, nor anyone else other than Christ himself has the capability to make that judgement.

Karen

We care because we have a bunch of GOP candidates who think that the Bible is more important to their governing philosophy than the Constitution. We care because they use their religion to justify denying rights to citizens who don't meet their "standards", as if that kind of judgement can really be considered a "standard". We care because there are people like you who use the false label "Muslim" on the current president while you claim that you don't care about religion. You not only do care about religion, you are too lazy to determine the actual truth. Barack Obama is not, nor has he ever been, Muslim and those who claim that he is are willfully ignorant.

Frankly, it does not at all surprise us Mormons that there is so much misinformation out there about our beliefs, history and scripture. Just look at how many different "Christian" churches there are out there. They can't even agree among themselves as to the doctrines of Christianity, let along agree on their misinformed accusations against Mormons. They all feel they have the "right" to interpret the Bible however they wish and as a result you get millions of different opinions as to what is the will of God.

Mormons, or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, believe the scripture in Amos 3:7. "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." God reveals his will through prophets. Always has, always will. Prophets are chosen by God, not by man. We believe that Joseph Smith was called of God to be a Prophet and through him, the fullness of Christs gospel was restored to the earth (as was prophesied in the Bible). We believe that we have a living Prophet, Thomas S. Monson. We believe that God loves his children (all of humanity), wants us to know his will, and that is why he still has prophets.

That is what we believe. It is consistent with the Bible. It is consistent with the Book of Mormon (which supports the Bible).

Whether or not the non-Mormons accept us in their definition of Christian is of no consequence to us. It doesn't change the fact that we believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and Redeemer. Call us what you will, it does not matter to us.

If you call Mormons racist, you don't understand the Bible, you don't understand our history, you don't understand God. We are not racist.

We are not homophobic. We value chastity and virtue. We regard sexuality to be a God-given power to procreate and to create a bond between husband and wife. We regard that power to be sacred and not to be abused through homosexuality, fornication, adultery, self-stimulation, etc. We love all people, even those who may be attracted to others of the same gender. We just don't agree with the act of homosexuality, just like we don't approve of other sins. We hate the sin and love the sinner, just as Jesus taught.

I am not going to get into arguments over all of the misconceptions, misinformation and inaccuracies in this forum. If you want to understand what Mormons truly believe, go to www.mormon.org.

@ThereseInAZ, Ronald Reagan also didn't attend church while he was president. So by your logic, Reagan also must have been a Muslim.

Association of ThereseinAZ with any reasonable kind of logic is a loooooooong streeeeeeeetch.

But what about a Pastafarian for president?

Goodness! It appears the Republicans are eating their own young! How delightful!

Someone fix up a batch of popcorn! This race hasn't even started in earnest and the GOP is acting like it's hosting a @!$%# fight at the monkey house! Just don't sit in the front row; you might get some on you!

Can I really be a God on my own planet? Way Cool!!

Yeah, the planet the boys in Salt Lake City got picked out for you is Giedi Prime.

Mormonism is a cult and Romney is a corporate thug.

We care because we have a bunch of GOP candidates who think that the Bible is more important to their governing philosophy than the Constitution.

This is not even close to being true. The fact of the matter is that even that evangelical guy who said Mormonism is a cult WOULD VOTE FOR ROMNEY IF ROMNEY WERE THE GOP CANDIDATE.

Please spare me the rhetoric. I hear enough of it on cable tv.

Actually, Karen, there are a lot of evangelicals who will not vote for either candidate if Romney is the GOP candidate. What really gets the evangelicals, the Mormons and you to the polls is a referendum denying marriage equality.

At the end of the day, it's really all about the Magic Underwear.

Actually Don, that is not true.

Robert Jeffress, the evangelical preacher who started this whole thing said, and I quote, more or less, "I will hold my nose and vote for Romney if Romney is the Republican candidate."

Jeffress also said that most evangelicals would not vote for Romney but that is BS considering that Jeffress said HE WOULD VOTE FOR ROMNEY.

Are they going to vote for Obama?

The conservative Christian leader said that he himself would vote for Romney and does not doubt that he is a good man.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65445.html#ixzz1ar8U78vt

Karen

My statement was not ambiguous and it was straight forward. I said, "there are a lot of evangelicals who will not vote for either candidate if Romney is the GOP candidate." I did not state what the idiot Jeffress would do. It is well-documented in polls that a lot of evangelicals will not vote for Romney. As I said, many will not vote for either candidate. Now, was that so difficult. Even Jeffress agrees with me, and that may be the only thing on which we agree.

Bottom line: you have your own opinion on the matter, regardless of facts. At least you are consistent.

It's not likely right wing christian extremists will vote for Obama, but they didn't last time either. This time, the polls are clearly showing the GOP's core group, the moderates, are appalled by the hard right turn their party has taken in recent years and they are disgusted by the choice of losers, clowns, and reality show rejects the Republican Party is desperately trying to prop up for the next general election. It is expected that many of these moderate voters will cross over to Obama because the GOP no longer represents them. The Tea Party, which started out with the promise of being a populist movement within the GOP has turned out to be just another group of right wing religious crazies: Bachmann, O'Donnell, and Palin are excellent examples of how that group failed to live up to its promise of reform and has become just another shrill voice of the right wing lunatic fringe.

Verdict: Obama by default. The US is holding an election in '12 and the GOP is not planning to show up.

This time, the polls are clearly showing the GOP's core group, the moderates, are appalled by the hard right turn their party has taken in recent years and they are disgusted by the choice of losers, clowns, and reality show rejects the Republican Party is desperately trying to prop up for the next general election.

This is pretty much what one voter said to me in a state I polled today.

You can bet millions more feel the same way. The GOP is self-destructing.

Romney's faith is not a factor with me either. However, his progressive leaning policies are. I will not vote for him if he gets the nomination.

I've seen more liberals defending Romney against the other candidates' attacks on his Mormon faith than I have seen liberals attacking his Mormon faith. Romney's biggest hurdles will not be his faith, but rather his flip-flops.

Jim Silver, I agree.... anybody but Obama in 2012! I'm split right now between Romney and Gingrich (the best choice). Jon Huntsman, another Mormon has the qualifications too! Cain is an outstanding pick! Still enough time to make a qualified choice to replace the current regime. I'd like to see who Romney picks as running mate!

Looks like Eric Holder will create more problems for Obama now! Look for his resignation any day now. Obama changes advisers as often as celebrities change spouses!

Wait, Gingrich, the man who had hundreds of thousands of dollars of personal debt to a jewelry store, the man who left his dying wife for a younger woman, is supposed to lead us to an era of fiscal responsibility and moral justice? I can't believe Republicans would even consider him a choice, let alone "the best choice."

Anyone who stays at home and doesn't vote because they don't like ANYTHING about the Republican candidate is just giving Obama the election. As for being a Mormon, I believe Mitt Romney is a religious man of good character. Barack Obama is a man who was married by and attended the sermons of (for over 20 years) a radical racist, and Barack Obama is NOT a man of good character. PLEASE ... for the sake of this country, hold your nose and vote for anyone but Obama. BTW, I'm thinking that perhaps adding Cain as the VP candidate would maybe soften the religious issue in the deep South, kill the "all Republicans are racists" tack the left is sure to take, AND I really like him! It's about time someone who knows how to run a business takes over the running of this country. The Pres/VP can surround themselves with people who are experts in foreign relations, etc., etc., but as Obama has showed us, if you don't know ANYTHING about how to run a business, this country will be sunk.

P.S. Does anyone know what religion Harry Reid is? I THINK I heard somewhere that he's a Mormon too ... not sure, but it would certainly be interesting if he were!

Orin Hatch and harry reid are mormans.

I'm more interested in obama's" god damn America" religion,

look what that got us?? A believer!!!

You are correct, it should not be a factor; however it is pretty accepted that a lot of people who vote straight ticket Republican will consider it a factor, which works to the favor of the left.

Well, if Harry Reid is a Mormon -- and don't doubt for a moment that he and NanPo have been running this country for the past 2.5 years -- then I guess there's a rotten apple in every religion. The point is that while we're all fighting about whether it's possible that a Mormon, a Jew, a Baptist, etc., can be good leaders and have good morals (and I believe that they can), the Dems are plotting how to keep their radical commie Muslim in the White House. Four more years of BO, and this country will be a 3rd world country. GET OVER THE RELIGION THING ... it doesn't matter. And if a Democrat brings it up, mention Harry Reid!

I've seen more liberals defending Romney against the other candidates' attacks on his Mormon faith than I have seen liberals attacking his Mormon faith.

Romney's problem is not with the Deomocrats but the Christian Right that will not support him. He has to get nominated before he has to worry about Democrats.

"Obama changes advisers as often as celebrities change spouses!"~Seldom

Newt changes spouses as often as Rush Limbaugh changes his underware.

Jim,

No need for the far left to bash Romney's faith when the Pubbies/ TP types are already at it.

When one side of a debate accuses the other side of doing something that only the first side is doing, it's called projection. Conservatives do a lot of that.

Fact: no liberal has ever brought up Romney's Mormonism as an issue. Fact, Jeffres and other evangelicals who do bring it up are far right conservatives, not liberals.

And fact, Obama is not radical, a commie, or a Muslim.

And one last fact, the trait that America has to an ever growing extent, that it shares with all third world countries, is the growing disparity in wealth and income between the richest few and the majority of citizens. That disparity, and the willful ignorance of some who would call Obama a Muslim, is what will condemn us to being a third world country.

I will vote for whoever is up against Obama. I can't believe that people will let their religious bigotry decide the election. I'm not a baptist, but I would certainly vote for one. What is wrong with people?

Jon, Jackie,

If you read carefully you will see that it's not the Repubs that are saying they will not vote for Romney because of his religion. The liberal media are using pastor's statement to do what they do best in an election year---divide and conquer. Try to start a fight between the Repubs. Try to turn the evangelicals against the mormons. Try to get them all to smear each other. Or, take basic statements of facts (eg, Mormon belief is different from Christian belief) and make that look like it's a smear against mormons.

I don't think it will work, though. Most Christians are already more knowledgeable about the Mormon beliefs and their differences than the media is, yet they in most cases have already show a willingness to support him anyway if he represents their societal values--long before this article even came out.

Becky--Your ignorant rantings only prove

that there are idiots on the far right, just as there are idiots on the far left. The commie, and Muslim crap is dumb and demonstrates your being easily led around by the far right fools like Beck. Hum-Beck+Becky?

Anyone but Obama...there's some intelligent thinking for America. Why not vote for Perry. He's so smart he doesn't even know what century the Revolutionary War. Maybe Romney who's flip flopping on a daily basis. Maybe even Bachmann. She worked for the IRS for a while. Plus the whole 9-9-9-/6-6-6- routine she's jabber jawing about now. Yep, they're all qualified. Too bad Palin pulled. She could ring bells and fire guns for a warning. Sheeesh....My dead dog has more qualifications then all the GOP/TPers combined. They are all are a waste of life and need to be put down immediately. They're a danger to their own safety and our sanity.

I forgot about Romney calling corporations people. Yeah, he's a smart apple.

It's not "the left" that's attacking him. It's the Christian right.

"In the poll, 66 percent of Republican primary voters said they had no concerns about Romney's faith or its effect on his potential presidency; only 13 percent said they were concerned."

yakfit - Try again, nobody cares except liberals... attacking Romney's religion would be too hypocritical for them so they attempt to put the blame on someone else, Anthony Weiner would be proud.

Harry Reid is a Mormon, but only when it benefits him now. Old Harry has become so liberal the last decade that he now downplays his background. Ask most Nevadans about Harry's religion now days and I be they wouldn't have an answer! You won't hear him defend Romney on this issue, that's a fact!

Mitt (his real name is "Mutt") Romney is a Mormon, but nobody should hold that against him.

What works against him is that he is a Classic Crackpot, who believes that Corporations Are People.

Corporations aren't people. To think that they are is deranged. Surely, good friends, you do not want to vote for somebody certifiably deranged as President?

Unless, of course, you yourself are deranged, as I hope you are not.

That's right Pride and Joy. Im a Nevadan and I say Harry has to go as well as Obama.

romney is the author to obama care-that scares the crap out of me

luv watching him back peddle out of that one.

Pride & Joy: Until recently, I lived in Nevada. Harry Reid had never hidden his Mormon faith. He just doesn't make a big deal of it. There are many Mormons living in Nevada.

Why would he defend a guy who wants to kill his legislative agenda? He backs Huntsman, who he believes will work with Congress in a bi-partisan fashion.

How can you say Romney's "morals and character are what counts", when he's known to be one of the sleaziest liars around who changes his "principles" to anything that might get him votes, even if it contradicts what he said a week before? Examples? - here goes. For each topic are two direct quotes from Romney himself.

ON ROE V. WADE“I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years that we should sustain and support it. And I sustain and support that law and the right of a woman to make that choice.”“And that is why, as a pro-life Republican, I am in favor of having the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade.”
ON GOVERNMENT AUTO INDUSTRY LOANS“I'm not willing to sit back and say, 'Too bad for Michigan, too bad—too bad for the car industry, too bad for the people who've lost their jobs. They're gone forever.”“That's exactly what I said. The headline you read which said ‘let Detroit go bankrupt' points out that those companies needed to go through bankruptcy to shed those costs.”
ON THE RECOVERY ACT“I think there is need for economic stimulus. Americans have lost about $11 trillion in net worth … And government can help make that up in a very difficult time.”“I have never supported the President's Recovery Act... No time, no where, no how have I supported the President's stimulus.”
ON HOW PRESIDENT OBAMA HANDLED THE RECESSION“He didn’t create the recession, but he made it worse, and longer.”“I didn't say that things are worse.”
ON HEALTH CAREIn Massachusetts, “[I] was able to put in place a plan that helped get health insurance premiums down, and gets all of our citizens insured. If we can do that nationally, we help ... the entire nation."”“One thing I’d never do is impose a state’s plan on the entire nation, that makes no sense. I’ll repeal Obamacare.”

ON PRESIDENT REAGAN“I was an Independent during the time of Reagan/Bush. I'm not trying to return to Reagan/Bush.”“The right way for America to proceed when we face the kind of challenges we face is to pursue the strategy which Ronald Reagan pursued when we faced the challenges of the last century.”

If you think Romney has morals and character, you know NOTHING of either and are voting for a face and name, and not the actions of that person.

Becky, hold your nose and vote for anyone BUT Obama? That sure says how you feel about your group of nein! Did I spell the German No right? I am sure I will find out.

I have to laugh at the fact that a member of a christian cult is accusing a member of a mor(m)on cult of being a member of a religious cult.

Religion; the opiate of the masses

Ehhh...almost. How about Paul/Ventura.

Paul can't win ... and we are in a desperate situation. I like a lot of what Paul says, too, but right now, I'd vote for Donald Duck before I'd vote for the commie in the White House. I do, however, think Cain should be on the ticket in some capacity ... haven't decided if I think he can win, and that has GOT to be the most important thing on anyone's mind.

I like the guy who said "who gives a s_it" about the president religion? I have to say this debate sickens me AS a believer in God and one more thing.... this is not a "Christian" nation... that's BS! That evangelical paddy wanker can go to u no where...

It is preposterous to even pretend there is a question about the right-wing in America electing a black man to lead their party. NO WAY! You see how crazy Obama has made them... many Teabaggers would explode if another black man won the presidency.

Paul is just too bat-$hi^ crazy to be elected. Sure, even the nuts occasionally say profound things but this guy just believes way-too many controversial things to win a general election.

Cain/Paul ?!? Umm...Cain worked for the Fed. Paul hates the Fed. That's a ticket that's destined for disaster.

paul can and will win

cain was the evil head of the fed for kansas city

paul will never pick a loser like him

I dont think Paul will win, but I agree with about Cain.

I think I will just have another piece of pizza and watch you all fight it out.

Cain / Abel 2012

Mormon's aren't Christians. I don't think it's any bigger of a deal than Jews or Muslims not being Christians, but ultimately there's only so far you can go from the teachings of the Bible and still be considered Christian.

The Book of Mormon ought to be a pretty substantial hint that they aren't Christian as is the past practice of polygamy.

Jacob in the Bible was a polygamist. Was he not a Christian?

No, he was a Jew. Like everyone in the Bible. Christianity didn't emerge until years after Jesus' death.

No, he was a Jew

who cares ? no offense but we should stop the religious nonsense. Honestly, I would like to think that the prez would believe in a supreme Being but if for some reason he didn't or didn't want to give this subject any legs ... I would be good with that.

Also just to pick out a different piece, there's a large difference between myth and religion. There are the Greek tragedies for instance (Medea comes to mind specifically) some that nothing to do with gods or worship that are still considered myths. Religion on the other hand is more a set of beliefs about some sort of greater power, usually consisting of some sort of god or celestial being for lack of a better term. so to fail to separate out the difference reflects on you as being some sort of atheist rather then someone who's view about the similarity of Mormonism to Christianity counts. just a tip. if youre going to be impartial, be specific. thanks

Jacob wasn't a Christian. Christian is a name that didn't exist until Jesus.

Frank-187076 - Mormons are Christians. Websters Dictionary defines a Christian as any person(s) who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. We study, revere and hold close the teachings of Jesus as our Savior and the Messiah of the world. We search, and govern our lives around His teachings. The Book of Mormon is a 2nd testimony of the exhistance and purpose of Christ on this earth. In the Bible it states that "in the mouths of 2 or more witnesses shall all truth be established." The Bible is the 'stick of Juda', the first testiment. The Book of Mormon is the 'stick of Joseph', the second testiment. When Christ disappeared after His crusifiction and then appeared to the Apostles, they asked Him where He had gone. He said "other sheep have I which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." Where did He go in order to teach and have his other sheep hear his voice? When Cortez came to the American continent, he was greeted by a great number of 'Indians' who revered him as the "great white God that said He would return again." Little did they know that Cortez was just a greedy, murdering white man from across the ocean. But the point is, just about every culture around the world has some form of 'tale' fromt he history of that culture of having been visited by the son of God with a promise He would return again. The Book of Mormon is important not only because it is a bibliography of a people here in the Americas and how they got here and how they are related to those from the East, but more importantly, it is the 2nd testimony that Christ is alive, that he died for all of us and through Him and ONLY Him can we go home. The Bible tells us that not all writings have ceased that there will be many books, many testimonies of Christ found in the written word to come at a latter time when God deems. The Book of Mormon is just one of those books that the time is now.

Let's talk polygamy. Such a tiresome topic for the LDS people. Go to the Library of Congress and find the law that was enacted by the then Government of this great country that permited the annialation of the LDS people of then. That's right.. it became legal for a person to kill in cold blood a member of the Morman church. Try that on for size.. not much different than Hitler our government was. So tell me.. you have women with their children and no husband because he had been murdered by a catholic, a methodist, a protestant or any other person from any other religion of that time. Joseph Smith was given the revelation of polygamy AT THAT TIME in order to protect and help the widows with children who needed that protection. You ought to read his personal journal sometime and how he struggled with this commandment. But what you need to understand is that before the Mormans ever began polygamy, this country and many in it were already practicing it within their own religions and non-religions. It was practiced in the Eastern Hemesphere, Southern Hemesphere, basically around the world and IN THGE US before the Mormons did. Why did people place such enjoyment on murdering the men, raping and taking the women and children? Why did they do it? We had a prophet and 12 apostles and were organized exactly as Christ's church was.. we did not worship the Pope or follow their ways...It was and IS the restored gospel of Jesus Christ in this, the last days and we upheld our values, standards, ethics and virtues to the very breath of death. Not something that many in the US were doing at that time. It wasn't perfect and I'm sure that some abused it... we are human after all... but for the majority, polygamy was not something completely welcomed... but practices. As soon as the US created a law stating polygamy was illegal , the church Prophet made the declaration as such and polygamy was no longer practiced upon penalty of excommunication. Those who already had several wives were 'grandfathered in' by law but no new marriages could take place. For those that disobeyed that law, they were excommunicated. Plain and simple.

Oh brother, we are in a world of hurt.

Laurie,

I do not wish to anger you, but you are deceived.

There is much more to this than the little bits you mention. And very sadly, I must tell you that what little that you have written which is not altogether false is almost completely irrelevant.

For one thing, the two sticks in the hands of the prophet Ezekiel are the OLD TESTAMENT AND THE NEW TESTAMENT. To try to spin this some other way is to ignore the obvious and invent a need that is not there.

Joseph Smith created Mormonism to get around the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against polygamy because HE wanted to practice it. It could NEVER be possible to someone to go against the teachings of Jesus Christ while remaining true to, and part of, His Gospel. Smith's writings, including the "Book of Mormon" are lies for gullible people. The muddled language of the text, in the flowery style of the nineteenth century (and not all that competently so) with a pseudo-biblical flavor speaks for itself. It was written in the 1900s and never came from the Mouth of God. That much is plain and clear to anyone who reverences the purity of the Word of God and fears and loathes A LIE.

Read my post above for some perspective, some truth, and some solvent to help you dissolve the mud of nonsensical dogma that you have caked around your ears.

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." --Saint Paul

We ALL have to do this, Everyone has been saddled with the superstitions and false myths that they were pickled in when they were children. Even Biblical Christians.

Salvation is for those who are CONVERTED. This, too, means Christians also. But Mormons are not Christians because they believe in a false Jesus. The Book of Mormon adds NOTHING of importance to a person's salvation. THAT ALONE shows it to be false.

Even Biblical Christians need to be CONVERTED from many things they learned as children and to take their OWN stand for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

No one is "born" a Christian. One is not a Christian because one's parents are. A person must "become" a Christian.

"Unless you are converted and become as little children, you cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven"

Converted. Become as little children. And what do little children do? They START FROM SCRATCH AND LEARN EVERYTHING FROM THE BEGINNING STARTING WITH A BLANK SLATE.

See my post above for some truth about the Book of Mormon. Let go of your mother's apron strings and get your facts from God Himself.

JOHN

Do you STILL not know who I am, YET?

Good point, Tiredofsilly.

Comparing Christians and Mormans is like comparing cat poop and dog doodoo. They both stink, maybe one a little worse than the other, and they spread disease.

Joseph Smith created Mormonism to get around the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against polygamy because HE wanted to practice it.

That law was 1862

Okay I am going to shoot the whole bag of fertilizer here.

Christians and the so called Christianity belief doesn't "follow" the Man and if you believe, Son of God! They follow PAUL. This should be called "Paulism or Paulists". If some one truly wanted to follow Jesus, the person, and personification of God then they would be Jewish!!! Jesus, the man was a born a Jew and died a Jew. He followed the Torah and the laws of the Jews... and he NEVER usurped or discarded this faith EVER. He perhaps fullfilled prophesies and changed the direction of the Jewish faith potentially .... So this faith that Christians follow is not founded by Jesus at all. If any follow Jesus it would be Messianic Jews who continue to keep the basis of Jewish faith...

I am not a Jew. I was born and raised in the Church of Peter... the RC Church, Pauls church. Jesus was born on September 15th not December 25th (Mithras the SUN god birthday) and Was not Ressurected on Sunday ... it would have been Saturday and the entire system is contrived and taken from the pagan traditions etc... I am not passing judgement and I am not condemning any belief... These are simple facts.

So while Christian debate whether Mormans are Followers of Jesus they should really take a clear look at what the last 2000 years of inaccuracy and misdirection and frankly untruths that have become the basis of the Christian Faith... HELLO!

Purplhays put the joint down... Jacob was NOT a Christian! Are you serious? Read Genesis...

I can be a God on my own planet? Sign me up!!

I remember learning about Mormonism in 8th grade History class in California. The teacher taught that Mormons practiced poligamy. All the boys wanted to sign up. They were sorely dissappointed when we found out it wasn't true and that the practice was abolished in the 19th century. Is that part of "changing their beliefs and agenda to fit their corruption daily" and why you left the cult? If you hurry, there are still some small backwater cults you can join that practice polygamy unfortunately I hear you have to move to Texas and into a colony.

I am holding a seminar in a town near you on how to profit from planets that have been foreclosed. Most of the planets have had all of the plumbing stolen, but I know a guy...

Gods are always male just like goddesses are always female dumbass. Too bad you didn't bother to study any of it you might know what you're talking about.

You may want to get some counseling, Chuck.

Dont know what LDS church you belonged to, but we don't think of ourselves as GOD. Maybe you are thinking about Warren Jeff who thought he was GOD, and was in charge of the FLDS-mormons.

Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're an @!$%#. ;)

Matthew 15:14 - "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

To Find Out the Truth About Mormonism go to www.utlm.org

Well, I was born into the Mormon Church, and believe me, it has been the most incredible great thing in our lives. We are so happy. We couldn't have better lives because of the Church.

You wanna know what we believe? To REALLY find out the truth:

www.mormon.org

Jesus loves you but hates me because I am gay. Although I would never vote for Romney, I would never vote for any so-called Christian who will judge me and the way God made me. I know God loves me and that is all that counts. Just another wedge issue for the sheeple.

Ya Mormons are fine, not. Tell that to my Mormon father who died and never saw one Mormon come pray for him while in the hospital dying. Then because he had to stop his tithe to pay for cancer treatments they take his temple recommend away on his last days. I feel for any Mormon who thinks the Church cares about them, just like my father who spent his life in this corrupt church of greedy Gods and in death found no love from any of them. His dying breath was asking God to forgive them for their deception upon the people who are fooled into this cult.

Chuck I don't know what your talking about When my family was on church well fair we received Blessings from home teachers. When they didn't pay their tithing they still had home teachers that could give blessings and vesting teachers. They still had home teachers when their house was foreclosed on. My grand mother had not attended church for 2 years because of health and they still attended and they still gave her a blessing in the hospital and they offered the use of the church for free for the funeral. Sounds like your father had some crappy home teachers that s is all not every one is perfect.

Did they have rides at the church well fair? If so, how many tickets was the Roller Coaster of Mythology? Or the Tunnel of Brainwashing? I'd say all religions are the work of the Devil, but one has to believe in god to believe in the Devil..so I guess I'll just go with the greedy.

The mormons caused a huge rift in a portion of my extended family - can't ever forgive that... will never consider them "normal".

I have one question about Mormons and polygamy. I know MOST don't practice polygamy now, but if you can have multiple wives, how many more girls were born and what did the boys who didn't have girls to date do, go gay?

Best quote was by Greg Gutfeld on foxnews. "Cultists are wierd and sickly. Mormons are atractive, normal, and they live longer... If that's a cult sign me up!"

acopper5, this coming from a smart ass, Calls others dumb ass to make himself look like some scientist of knowledge.. Idiot with a big mouth

Acopper5 maybe you have only seen a few good looking ones. I have met many, they are all inbred and messed up because no one wants to a part of them. The only chicks they can get are ones that are ok about being cheated on(more than one wife) or ones that have no sense of self, they get uglies. A very chauvanist cult. They just attract pediflies.

tboat, yeah, better things like attacking homosexuals and interfering in other states politics.

Uh...no. Most faiths define their faith according to the theology of their scriptures. To be a Muslim, you adhere to their theology and practices, to be a Catholic, you must adhere to theirs, to be called a Christian you adhere to the teachings of Christ regarding atonement and salvation. Mormons' view of salvation is quite different from Christians. That's why they are called Mormon's and not Christians. Duh.

BTW--most Christians are not voting for people according to religion, but rather according to their societal values and philosophy of government.

It would appear Baptists believe they have trademarked the word Christian, and therefore can define the word anyway they see fit.

Not so, birdleg. I am not a Baptist, but I am currently in a Methodist church, and while there are some small differences in style, most all Christian denominations recognize each other as Christians because our denominations all agree on the core theology of salvation through faith in Christ and His words ALONE.

False teachers don't get that luxury.....

Mormons believe in faith and works. See James 2:15-26. They believe they are saved by the atonement of Jesus Christ. "We know that it is by the grace that we are saved, after all we can do." As we strive to become like Christ, Mormons believe that the grace of God through the atonement can transform us when our best effort and hope and faith and desire are there. But it is the atonement that makes the transformation possible.

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

The following are also from 2 Nephi:

2 Nephi 10:3 Jews are wicked. Only the Jews would crucify their God.

2 Nephi 6:12 Those who don't fight against Zion (the Mormon Church) and who don't join "the great and abominable church (the Catholic Church) will be saved

2 Nephi 5:21-22 God cursed the Lamanites (the ancestors of the Native Americans) causing their skin to turn dark and making them "loathsome" to His people

2 Nephi 25:2 The Jews created abominations and works of darkness.

2 Nephi 33:5 Those who reject the Book of Mormon are of the devil.

Interesting how people leave out the crazy parts of their religious books.

JP,

Thats because you are leaving out or adding details that explain those scriptures.

1. This one was stating that if Jesus had come to any other nation, they would have accepted him and believed in his miracles. By going to the Jews at that time was the only way he would be "sacrificed"

2. No where in this scripture does it state that Zion is the Mormon Church and that the abominable church is the Catholic Church. Some members have speculated such, but no official statement has been made by the church. (at least to my knowledge).

3. God punishes the wicked. So what. You also neglected to mention the part of the Book of Mormon that mentions that the Lamanites will blossom as a rose when they become righteous.

4. The Jews were wicked at times, Mormons were wicked at times, Christians were wicked at times. The Old and New testament are replete with these examples. Along with the Doctrine and Covenants.

5. Interesting misquotation on your part. "And it (Nephi's words) speaketh harshly against sin, according to the plainness of the truth; wherefore, no man will be angry at the words which I have written save he shall be of the spirit of the devil."

Go ahead post some more "crazy" parts so I can clear those up with truth as well.

Interesting how people leave out the crazy parts of their religious books.

We don't leave it out we know it by hart and shear it when it is relevant.

Okay I am going to shoot the whole bag of fertilizer here.

Christians and the so called belief of Christianity doesn't follow the Man, and if you believe, Son of God named Jesus (The Christ)! They follow PAUL. This Faith could just as easily been called "Paulism or followers Paulists". If some one truly wanted to follow Jesus, the person, and personification of God as prophecied in Judaism, then they would be Jewish!!! Jesus, the man was a born a Jew and died a Jew. He followed the Torah and the laws of the Jews. He was called "Rabbi" and most accounts lean toward him as a mmember of the group called Essenes... and he NEVER usurped or discarded this faith EVER. He perhaps fullfilled prophesies and changed the direction of the Jewish faith potentially .... So this faith that Christians follow is not founded by Jesus at all. If any follow Jesus it would be the Messianic Jews who continue to keep the basis of Jewish faith...

I am not a Jew. I was born and raised in the RC Church, Pauls church. Jesus was born on September 15th not December 25th (Mithras the SUN god birthday) and was not Ressurected on a Sunday (the goddess "Easter's" symbol, the egg celebration) ... it would have been Saturday The entire system is contrived and taken from and melded into the pagan traditions etc... I am not passing judgement and I am not condemning any belief... These are simple facts.

So while Christian debate whether Mormans are Followers of Jesus they should really take a clear look at what the last 2000 years of inaccuracy and misdirection and frankly untruths that have become the basis of the Christian Faith... HELLO!

Nice copy and paste from your other posts.

I am a Latter Day Saint (Mormon). If someone tells me I am not a christian, it depends on their view of what a christian is. If the view is that you have to follow a specific number of tenents that have been pointed out, then I am not a christian. However, in my opinion, being a christian means following christ to the best of your ability and knowledge. In that light I consider myself a christian.

I agree with your second paragraph where you said that Jesus fulfilled prophesies and changed the direction of the Jewish faith. But your argument brings up an interesting question. Do Messianic Jews believe in the New Testament or just the Gospels (Matt, Mark, Luke, John). Since the gospels were written by some of his most avid followers, it would be assumed that the doctrines in the gospels are true. Most of the Jews rejected the teachings of Jesus. The ones that did joined his church and were not Messianic Jews, but were Christians (called by their detractors).

I will agree with you that some of the religious celebrations (like his birthday) are not celebrated on the actual day (but not a big deal in my book). That is where mormonism comes in. We believe that there was a church established when the apostles were on the earth, and that over time that church was lost (because of many reasons including corrupt men and simple mistakes). We believe that that church was reestablished as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Take it or leave it.

Well Mr. "Morman" I find it interesting indeed that you and your faith picks and chooses what is a "big deal" or not depending on whether is suits your sales effort for your belief.

Joseph Smith found these plates and Moroni came to him and all of his visions etc... and this is what your faith is based on? What IF... just for a moment you compared this to the situation of Islam and their "prophet" Mohammed. I see stark paralells except in your case this supports the figure of Jesus.. I would or could say that both Smith and Mohammed were subject to hallucinations and other signs of mental illness. Honestly, what if these people emerged in society today? Would you be so inclined to follow a new "Joseph Smith"?

Regarding the writings of the Gospel, there were ONLY Jews following Jesus for the most part until Paul decided that circumscision was not required. This was a very expediant way of garnering new followers in geographies where the Jewish diaspora was very small or too few. And what was it that these Gospels of Jesus time said? The Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden away for a reason. The Church deceided which "versions" would be allowed to be continued and it had nothing to do with Jesus or his original followers when the Gsopels you refer to were "Established".

Sorry there but you're not cutting it factually or i any other way than a continued faith in the flawed men that came before us...

If you are going to try and insult me by calling me a name, at least spell it right. It is "Mormon" not "Morman".

I have no clue what you are talking about in your first paragraph. All organizations including religions/business/corporations pick and choose what is a big deal. The Catholics don't put up posters about the inquisition in an effort to win converts. Businesses and corporations don't advertise their failures to gain business. If someone has questions that I can answer in a one on one setting, I will try to answer them the best I can.

About Joseph Smith, it is a little more than Joseph found the plates and Moroni came to him. The experiences of Joseph Smith is not what my faith is based on. I do believe that his experiences are true, but that is not the foundation of my faith. My faith is in Jesus Christ. You could claim that Joseph Smith and Mohammed were subject to hallucinations if you want to, but Joseph Smith had 11 people that saw the plates and never changed their story even after leaving the church. If they were simply hallucinations, there were alot of people involved and the hallucinations were so real that they never recanted.

If there was a new person that claimed to have seen god and god told him to start a religion, sure, I would investigate it.

As for the your third paragraph, I thought it was Peter that had the vision saying to eat the unclean beasts. That was when the gospel went to the gentiles. As far as I know, the circumscision was a minor issue that was just a clarification. I also agree that the "church" had control of the scriptures and which scriptures were translated and how they were translated. There is also the possibility of the "church" changing scriptures to suit what their beliefs. Also, translation is not a perfect practice. Some things were lost upon translation.

So, basically you equate religous belief and spirituality with corporations, big business etc... ? I never condemned any organized religion including this bizarre one you're in. Regardless of whether it is morally "superior" because you don't drink or whatever else the weaker less moral people in the rest of humanity do...

You have the right to be in a cult in America. That's what you're in ... If people in this country can refer to Buddhists as in a cult and that religion is 3500 years old then the 150 year old Mormon religion is even more so. Fortunately, in this country it doesn't matter and that was my point. You know why? Because the founding fathers knew that we had to keep religion out of governing and living with each other...

Frankly, I am tired of religion ... how about some real spirituality for a change...
not more Roman Catholic, Inc or LDS, LLC or any other incorpoprated belief in God?

I only equated them in the sense that to put a seed of interest in a person it helps to present it right.

By calling my religion bizzare, is that not condemning it?

I never said that I or Mormons are morally superior to other people. We are all just people trying to do our best with what we have been given.

I don't really care if someone calls my religion a cult. Religion and cult are basically the same word. Cult is just used in a deroggatory manner usually by a more mainstream religion to put down another religion. But that is fine.

I completely agree with your point about the founding fathers. That is the whole reasoning behind the first amendment. The only problem I have is when the government forces religion out of a public place. Like the ten commandments. I wouldn't care if the buddhists or muslims or atheists or whoever else puts up something similar to that. Personally I think that is a freedom of speech.

I agree also about your LLC comment, but that is the state of the country that pretty much forces that and not a choice by a religion.

Sp what? Jews aren't Christians either, but they are good people. I don't think God really cares what team you're playing on, as long as you believe in Him and are a good person. I don't like Joe Lieberman because he's a Dem, but I never doubt for a moment that he has a deep faith and wants the best for the country. As long as they're not sacrificing animals, I DON'T CARE what religion they are.

And who was the last president we had that was Jewish? Oh, right, none. Not a single person has been elected president who wasn't a Christian. Don't forget that Kennedy was seriously questioned about how he would govern as a Catholic.

BTW, Romney thinks corporations are people, so if you're fine with his corporate cronies paying for what kind of government we have, then you go right ahead and vote for him. You cannot convince me, Mormon or not, that he wants the best for the country when he's working for his corporate sponsors instead of the American people.

Has anyone checked out the LDS program for welfare? Reagan praised it's success and wanted to implement it into the government system. So far I've heard that the cult is hard working, fiscally responsible, patriotic, charitable, educated.........nah, why would we want any of those qualities in a president?

So, Jane ... you think Obama wants the best for this country? And maybe we've never had a Jewish president, but we have a radical left-wing Muslim for a president now. You seem to imply that that's OK! Did you see the pictures of him campaigning with Shabazz and the Black Panthers? Do you take into account the fact that he attended services with that racist, bigoted "Rev." Wright? (I'd LOVE to know from which theological institution he obtained that title.) Get over the religion thing ... and if Romney is a businessman, God knows we NEED a businessman to straighten this mess out. The pork-barrel politicians haven't been able to do it ... as a matter of fact, the Dodd-Frank Bill has done a lot to ruin us ... they should both be in jail, but hey! They're Democrats, so all you lefties turn a blind eye to that. How about that your precious Harry Reid is a Mormon -- that doesn't bother you? Geez, you people are ridiculous. Can't stand a Mormon, but a communist -- that's OK!

Ya know, until the nut job Mormon started taking pot shots at me I would have defended his right to be whatever... but frankly, after hearing from him and with what I know personally, they're as screwed up, self-pious bunch of freaks as you can get. If they had the chance it seems to me they would be as radical as any other zealots...

Save your bull crap .... Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Babaji, you name IT... They aren't the exclusive property of any religion or denomination. They're in everyone ... but a bit less so in these self righteous Pharisees and Saducees of the modern era...

Liberals are bigots? Explain, sir.

Hmmm ... SOME liberals are bigots; Shabazz, Farrakhan, Obama's pastor, etc. But conversely, that doesn't make all liberals or all conservatives bigots.

passiveobserver,

Religious tolerance is a conservative view and intolerance a non-conservative view. Religious tolerance dates back near the dawn of our great Country of which the Constitution is based on. You can be fiscally conservative by not overspending and wisely spending your money, but at the same time, you can also be socially liberal by being intolerant of another man's religion. Liberals are known to be derisive of most religions calling them idiots for their beliefs. It's just sad the hypocrisy of some that hold dear their religion while at the same time saying to everyone else's faces that they are going to hell, which is socially irresponsible and not a conservative idea.

I think you might be confusing "liberal" with "atheist," and even that's a bit of a blanket statement. I am an atheist and I like to think of myself as tolerant of people of faith, although I am always up for a good theological debate. But then I see so-called social conservatives like Bachmann and Santorum condemning homosexuals and signing a pledge that stated blacks had better family values as slaves, and I wonder how one can say there are no conservative bigots.

But someone who wants to go and apologize and kiss the a** of Japan, the country that gave us Pearl Harbor is ok with you, huh? If you don't vote for whomever the Republicans nominate, you might as well vote for Obama.

Don't forget that in return for Pearl Harbor we gave them two atomic bombs.
But come on, that was 70 years ago. Japan is NOT the same country it was in 1942.

OK ... it was 70 years ago, and apparently you think that Pearl Harbor and the ensuing American involvement in WWII vs. the atomic bombs was tit for tat. My dad, a physician who was a Bronze Star recipient, served in the Philippines. After the war, though, he went to Japan and worked to help rebuild the damage. That's enough of an apology for me ... I'm not going to apologize, and I don't want that G.D. community-organizer-in-chief apologizing FOR ME!

Do you even know what the Mormon doctrine teaches or even what the Christian doctrine teaches? It doesn't appear to me based upon your response you know much about either. We are called as Christians to contend for our faith but if we don't know what we believe and don't know what other doctrines like Mormonism are teaching then how effective can we be as Christians. It has nothing to do with who is good by good works or who is bad by bad works. It only has to do with the work Jesus Christ did on the cross once and for all and who accepts the work Christ did on the cross for them once and for all. The Mormon doctrine rejects the work Christ did on the cross once and for all. It teaches there are sins even Christ's blood doesn't cover. It teaches good works gets you brownie points toward heaven as well as many other heresies including Joseph Smith proclaiming he was and is the messiah and holds the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Until you know what the Mormon doctrine teaches and what the Christian doctrine teaches please don't make uninformed statements about it and align it with Christianity.

Please follow your own advice. You misunderstand the role of Joseph Smith in the founding of Mormonism (an instrument in the founding of the church - not a messiah) and the the Mormon belief of Christ's all-encompassing atonement for every human being to ever walk the earth. And is it really anti-Christian to "turn the other cheek", "love thy neighbor as you love thyself" and "do good unto those who despitefully use you?" If good works make you unChristian, I think Christ himself wouldn't qualify for the title.

The only good work that will get anyone into heaven is the acceptance of the work Jesus Christ did on the cross once and for all. The only requirement for heaven is simple acceptance of the work Jesus Christ did on the cross for me, you and everyone else who ever lived. Grace not works saves us!

Isaiah 64:6 - We are all infected and impure with sin. When we display our righteous deeds, they are nothing but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall, and our sin sweep us away like the wind.

Ephesians 2:8,9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

So basically, you can be a big jerk and abuse your neighbors, but if you believe in the "acceptance of the work Jesus Christ did on the cross for me, you and everyone else who ever lived. Grace not works saves us!", then you are in.

I think Jesus would frown upon this ...

Donna, you are incorrect. Mormons believe if not for the atonement all would be lost. The atonement covers everything with our willingness to obey. Joseph Smith never proclaimed he was and is the messiah. Please study the LDS Church's beliefs at www.lds.org.

Donna

James 2:14-26

New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith without works is a dead faith. How do you explain this? It is true that for you to have salvation, you must accept Jesus Christ as lord and savior, but if you do not follow his example of how to live a good life, which includes doing good work in his name, have you really accepted him as your savior? Jesus said that no one comes to the father except through me, but he also said there will be many who claim to be christians that come before him and his responce will be, "go from here, I do not know you". The Baptist preacher that baptized me, said that once saved, always saved, but to me that is not scripture, because the bible says there will be many turn away from christianity in the end days. It also says that it is better to be ignorant of the truth and sin, than to know the truth and sin. I am afraid that there will be many, who believe they are christians and have complete salvation that are going to be in for a rude awakening when they meet their maker.

Until you know what the Mormon doctrine teaches and what the Christian doctrine teaches please don't make uninformed statements about it and align it with Christianity.

That is why my wife stopped being a Baptist and joined.

Joseph Smith proclaiming he was and is the messiah

no

and holds the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

Yes and I don't think you know what that means

The Mormon doctrine rejects the work Christ did on the cross once and for all. It teaches there are sins even Christ's blood doesn't cover

no

It has nothing to do with who is good by good works or who is bad by bad works.

John 7:17 It is important to do his will to know the Doctrine

Grace not works saves us!

Yes you are right

2 Nephi 2:8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Ephesians 2:8,9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

James 2: 14,20,22,26 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath ^bfaith, and have not works? can faith save him?

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that ^afaith without ^bworks is dead?

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by ^aworks was faith made ^bperfect?

For as the body without the ^aspirit is ^bdead, so faith without ^cworks is dead also.

Ephesians 2:8,9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Yes it is right if you Boast in doing what is right your pride will hold you back. How ever I'm not the judge.

I Tend to be hard in my views Political Because I Strongly believe in one of the principles of the church that you need to be self reliant. I also believe in helping people that fall on their face.

So if the Mormons are right and faith and works are needed to be saved then It will be only them that make it. The people who belive you only need faith/grace are in trouble. But if the the faith/grace people are right sounds like the Mormons will still make it. Maybe they are on to something.

DING!DING!DING! BINGO! EXACTLY! I am a Mormon. I am a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe he died for me, and that without him all is lost. I also believe that I show my discipliship through my actions. I try to be a good example of a believer and follower of his commandments.

This makes me saved by my faith and I will hopefully also have the good works to be judged favorably when the time comes. I'm good both ways...ARE YOU?

Where do you get that?

You are a Azz Chuck.

And not only is he a Mormon, he's the senator from a state whose major sources of income are gambling, prostitution, selling alcohol and drugs ... and they keep electing him, so what the heck kind of Mormon is he??? Can't be a very good one!

Harry Reid isn't running for president. The fact is that when being elected by their own people within their own states and communities, Mormons do very well in elections. It's just when they start to have presidential aspirations that they run into trouble.

so what the heck kind of Mormon is he??? Can't be a very good one!

He does not set the laws of the state.

kenjb: A voice of reason! Well said.

Don't expect many to pay attention, though. Too many have convinced themselves that the Founding Fathers were all devout Christians and that our whole Constitutional government is based on the bible.

The founding fathers knew that a government controlled religion or religion controlled government was a bad thing.

You mean a book about life that was preached about 2,000 years ago with no scientific proof isn't correct? Yeah, I get tired of the people with imaginary friends as well...

That's the thing that I think drives some people crazy, Donna. They seem deceitful about it, like constantly trying to pull one over on the dumb Christians. It seems like word game after word game.

The issues that people have with Mormon doctrines really boil down to an interpretation of the Holy Scriptures. If the scriptures were so easily interpreted and understood, why are there so many different Christian religions out there who all disagree with each other on fundamental doctrines? The Book of Timothy (New Testament) says that Holy Scripture was written by Holy Men and must be interpreted by Holy Men.

This is really where Mormons and other Christians differ...Mormons believe that divine authority was taken from the earth during a period of apostasy, and therefore needed to be restored. Heavenly messengers restored that authority through the Prophet Joseph Smith. With the restored Authority, the true intent of the inspired writer could be discerned through revelation and therefore revealed to man.

The Doctrines of the Latter-day Saints can be found within the pages of the Bible. The Word of God is then clarified by the Servant of God who has been given divine authority, not by attending a school, but by the laying on of hands of one who also has authority.

Satan is the father of lies and a great deceiver. He likes to imitate the work of God and it's why you will find the Morrmons using the same vocabulary but not the same dictionary. It's why it's so critical we know what we believe as Christians and what other doctrines such as Mormonism teach so we can contend for the faith against false doctrines and false prophets. If you want to learn what Mormonism really teaches go to www.utlm.org

Anziano

The Word of God is then clarified by the Servant of God who has been given divine authority, not by attending a school, but by the laying on of hands of one who also has authority.

Well as a pastor, prophet, and theologian who was ordained with the laying on of hands, I can say with all of the authority that Jesus gave me and a witness of the Holy Spirit that the LDS faith is a not of God.

And my priesthood is the royal priesthood of the believer as noted by Jesus, Peter, and the writer of the book of Hebrews.

Mormons have NO priesthood authority as they claim two priesthoods that are invalid. Jesus abolished the Levitical priesthood (their so-called Aaronic Priesthood) and Jesus ALONE holds the Melchezidek priesthood which is non transferrable.

The hypocrisy here is astounding.

So is Donna an expert on all the world religions or just hers and "mormonism"? You sound very threatened. Jesus said "judge not, lest ye be judged likewise." Maybe that's why you don't hear mormons trashing other religions......maybe they honestly believe the words of Christ.

Larry: I have read many of your post and you are spiritually blind as a bat. There are good Christians of many denominations and some that are of no church. Jesus plainly taught that his was a spiritual kingdom.

If 10% of those that claim Christianity belonged to the spiritual kingdom they would light up the world. How many sermons are post have you ever done against the greed and usury that is destroying America?

Donna,

I don't think your source is very accurate (the website you keep posting), because all of your arguments are completely invalidated by your incorrect facts. If you want the REAL facts, go to the official source (mormon.org)--you don't have to believe everything that they are saying, but at least you will be fit for an argument outside of elementary school logic. It's amazing how ignorant some people are. If you insist on bashing the religion, at least do it with a valid argument base.

Frank Morton-2536216

Larry: I have read many of your post and you are spiritually blind as a bat. There are good Christians of many denominations and some that are of no church. Jesus plainly taught that his was a spiritual kingdom.

If 10% of those that claim Christianity belonged to the spiritual kingdom they would light up the world. How many sermons are post have you ever done against the greed and usury that is destroying America?

Frank, I agree with you that there are many good Christians from many denominations. I've worked with them around the world

You cannot ever find a single post from me endorsing a particular denomination. My own ministry is nondenominational and my board of directors is composed of pastors and other ministers from a number of differing denominations and ministries.

Also, I've never posted here from ANY of my sermons because they aren't written. I teach through the entire word of God as the Holy Spirit guides me.

I also agree that most who claim to be Christian really aren't. Something Jesus and the apostles also predicted.

Greed is ALWAYS wrong. The problem is that most liberals have a very different definition of greed from most people.

Usury (interest) is not prohibited by Jesus or the apostles for Gentile believers.

Donna, Have you gone to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, for information regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? You keep reciting anti Mormon venom from all the typical anti Mormon's. I respect your right to feel how you choose to feel towards Mormon's.........but you have received incorrect and false information as the basis of your feelings.

It's not venom but truth. It has nothing to do with feelings but with facts. It's about contending for the Christian faith against false prophets and false doctrines. I would recommend you go to www.utlm.org and do the research necessary to find out what Joseph Smith really said and what he really taught and was frequently changed by the "living prophet" who happened to be running the Mormon church at the time. I was a Mormon and I still have family that is in bondage to the deception of the Mormon doctrine. Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life...no one comes to the Father except by Him. This is the truth I found and after doing much research discovered Mormonism was a counterfeit doctrine made to look like Christianity. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Go to www.utlm.org to discover the truth for yourself. You won't find it at any Mormon websites.

Larry,

You stated that Jesus abolished the levitical priesthood and the he alone holds the Melchizideck which is non-transferrable. Yet you claim to hold the priesthood. Just curious what priesthood do you hold then?

Donna,

Give it a rest, please. "No Ma'am, That's Not History" has been debunked so many times, you should be embarrassed for even mentioning it. Fawn Brodie, who wrote it, was an apostate Mormon who apparently had the same axe to grind as you do. The book is a complete joke.

Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life...no one comes to the Father except by Him.

That is what we teach.

If you want to know the truth about "Mormonism", go straight to the source.

www.mormon.org

Yes, the source wouldn't be revised Mormon doctrines found at www.mormon.org but the foundational doctrines Joseph Smith put in place but was later changed numerous times by the Mormon self proclaimed prophet at the time. If you want to know the truth go to www.utlm.org

If you want a bit more neutral understanding about the mormons instead of from anti-Mormons or Mormon church members then I'd suggest the info in wikipedia:

No, my truth is the truth.

No, that truth is a lie, my truth is the truth.

He's a liar, I tell the truth.

No, he's a liar, I tell the truth.

No, no, you can only trust Wikipedia.

Crazy.

Our ancestors came here for many reasons and some because they had no choice.

I'm afraid there is much truth in this old unpopular saying: " When the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock they fell upon their knees and then upon the Aborigines."

Sorry it was supposed to give the mormon dot org address

Thank you! I am not Morman, but was raised among them and I have a sibling who converted as a teenager. And though he's had to endure family ridicule, he and his wife raised three of the brightest, well mannered, caring children I've ever come across. Like JFK, religion should not be an issue when electing a President.

Its all great until you reach the point of the book of mormon being God's word. We have a problem there. Jesus has not returned. Oh you left out the part about great mormons becoming gods of their own worlds. That wont wash either

Anthony-1703868

I know that the Book of Mormon is also the word of God. I have read it and I have prayed to God and asked him if it is true. He has witnessed to me through the Holy Ghost that it is true.

I invite you to not simply take my word for it, because I'm sure you won't. But rather read the Book of Mormon for yourself, then pray to God and ask him yourself if it is not true. If you do so, with real faith that He will answer you one way or the other, I promise that you will know for yourself whether or not it is true.

"13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things".

Simple,

you belong to a faith that clearly "believes" one thing and acts drastically different (though I know you will rationalize and justify these discrepancies). Your church contributes millions of dollars to fight and deny the "virtuous, lovely, and good" institution of marriage to gays and lesbians in this country. Homophobia, like sexism (where are the female leaders in your church!?), racism (I know, it's all good now, God changed His mind and let Blacks in), and greed (Romney took his business and American jobs overseas so he could make more MONEY) are ALL examples of a sick mind and a sick heart. MY Jesus would not justify ANY -isms or -phobias!!

Please don't be deceived by simple is enough is stating. If you want to know the truth about what Mormonism teaches.

www.utlm.org

Donna,

You are incredibly paranoid. I have Mormon friends that are way better Christians than any other Christian I Know. They are wonderful! Let God sort it out...it isn't any of your business. Go read the bible and worry about saving your own soul. I thank God that I am not judgemental like you. Say a prayer for yourself...you need it

I have atheist friends who are better Christians than most Christians I know.

AMEN to "simple is enough". How can you argue with #11?

Anthony

The Bible states that in the last days "the book of Judah (the Bible) and the stick of Joseph (the Book of Mormon) will come together. The ancient prophets who recorded the tablets that became the Book of Mormon were direct decendants of Joseph, son of Jacob. Do you know the history of the canon? Do you know how many books were discarded by the "committee of men" that determined what would go in the Bible and what wouldn't? Wouldn't it be wonderful if God has more to say to us? Why would he speak to man since the beginning of time and then 2000 years ago just stop? Doesn't make sense to me. If there's more, I want to know it.

@simple is enough

The following 'Article of Faith', in the Mormon Religion, is enough--all by itself--to cause decent people, everywhere, great concern: for, it deals with how they perceive governments and the legitimacy of those governments (as well as what is their own personal role in government and their attitudes and responsibility, to same.

....

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Those 13 Articles of Faith, by the way, are the basic "planks" of their religion.

I will now dissect the above article, or statement, of belief:

Behold, brother Wilber Mitt--for WILBUR is indeed your first name, ain't it so, Romney? So, Romney, do you truly believe in being a loyal subject to a king, were a KING the head of state, in these United States?

(His answer will undoubtedly be "yes". Because he believes in this Article, too: having recited it, since he was old enough to stand on two legs).

There is something PROBLEMATIC about a religion that treats all sorts of governments as something to "subject yourself to". Obama said that "I am YOUR servant...your public servant" (or something to that effect, without quotation marks). But, Mormons think that presidents are little different from KINGS: in fact, they assert that they would subject themselves to ANY ruler--including that short laundry list of rulers: kings...magistrates of kings...and presidents!

That is sooo Un-American! The colonists rebelled against the English king of their day: they did NOT pledge to be good, little loyal subjects of King George.

MORMONS, had their religion been established a mere 55 years earlier (in 1775, instead of 1830), would have "obeyed Joseph Smith", in this their founder's advice to subject themselves to their king. In short, Mormons would have been Loyalists. There is something of a king-man mentality, among them: and, that is "damn scary": right out of the Mitt Romney Cracker Jacks box!

TRUE AMERICANS are not LOYALISTS: you cannot be a loyalist and a champion of true liberty, at the selfsame time! (That would be an oxymoron, to be "subject to" a president. Presidents are YOUR servants, not the other way around.

On so many levels, Mormons have it "ass-backwards". And, THIS is the Article of Faith, of theirs, that is so troubling! After the end of the Revolutionary War, the LOYALISTS (who believed in being subject to kings, too!), many of them were afraid of a just retribution, for having been traitors guilty of treason: and, so, they fled to Canada, to escape a punishment that never came!

If Mormonism had been "dropped into" that kind of environment, they would have "run like hell", up to Canada (because they are LOYALISTS); and, their church would, today, be a tiny little Canadian thing.

They CLAIM that they believe in "sustaining the law". But, in context, one easily sees the antecedent, thusly:

"We believe in being [loyal] subject[s] [of] KINGS [and other] rulers: [by], in, [and, through] honoring, obeying, and sustaining the [king, in his--the king's] law."

Whose law, Brother Catcher's MITT Romney?

ANSWER: the king's law, sir!

Well, that is right! For, that "PLANK" of their religion is not for a millisecond talking about the "RULE OF LAW", but about "THE RULE OF RULERS" (and kings are their own lawmakers! (And, this is one of the very tests of and for tyranny!)

It is no wonder that George Washington had long-concluded that there was more to "tyranny" than just being taxed without representation! The "Rule of a Ruler" IS Tyranny, by very definition, because all power is given to the king: there is no separation of powers.

Interestingly, the mormon-church government is ALSo one where there is no separation of powers! (So, their own sense of government does not align with the thinking of true Americans: or, in other words, it is UN-AMERICAN.)

They would follow a king: UN-AMERICAN

They would sustain their leader dogs and subject themselves to same: UN-AMERICAN

They gleefuly and gladly "sustain" their church leaders, in the exact same way that they would obey and sustain a king or other ruler: this IS their article of faith! And, their church government, under scrutiny, fails the LIBERTY TEST! There is NO separation of powers, inside their church government. They "claim" to advance the U.S. Constitution, but they have failed to neutralize the tyranny that their own "government" has, in it, without such a system of checks and balances that the Constitution prescribes. They "rush in" and define the "government of god" as something different from that of a secular government: but, the principles of liberty that God established in the USA (according to mormonism) are the very principles that do not apply to themselves, way up there, in Salt Lake City. In short, I smell a hypocritical rat!

It is the very same kind of thinking that permitted Romney to "flip-flop and call it an EPIPHANY", when he appeared to suddenly become pro-family and not pro-choice, among other things. And, while I do respect the pro-family stance, I KNOW FOR A FACT that Romney was NEVER pro-choice, in his run-up to the gubernatorial election of Massachusetts: back when he ran for and was elected to that office. (He was even serving as a mormon Stake President...rather like as catholic bishop...at the time he began his campaign for that political office: so, he could NOT have been pro-choice, in order to fill the job of "stake president", for his church).

What is the upshot of this? Mormons can lie, fabricate, prevaricate, in the name of their God and their religion: they can even pretend to FLIP (flop) on an issue, like that shameless Romney has already done.

TO MORMONS: If you are "truly" Americans, then you better get busy and march right up to your power brokers, in Salt Lake City, and demand that there be a SEPARATION OF POWERS: otherwise, you are hypocrites who want to have it both ways!

You (mormons) WANT that there is a separation of powers (and checks and balances), in the Society-at-Large; but, you doggedly (and dogmatically) hang onto a KING-MAN lack of such a separation, inside your religion. Why are you so UN-AMERICAN? Why DO you subject yourselves to a mormon-church president, as you do? Your Mormon article of faith REALLY says this:

"We believe in being LOYALISTS (viz., loyal) to kings and other rulers, including mormon-church presidents..." (without the benefit of any separation of powers).

In short, Mormons would embrace a tyranny, should that return to the land: they already HAVE a tyranny--by very definition--inside their own religion (and church government): TO OBEY WITHOUT QUESTION IS THE VERY DEMAND OF A TYRANNY!

And, up pops a bald-headed wonderkind, named Elder Dallin H. Oaks (a mormon apostle-leader-dog), and reinforces that very submission of church members to mormon authority, by saying,

"Don't [question] The Brethren, even if they are wrong!"

NOTE: "The Brethren" is a code phrase for "The Top quorum of Three LDS Leaders"

To suspend one's right of critical inquiry is to give up LIBERTY, ITSELF.

George Washington would have been ashamed of Mormons, for giving up this inalienable right! For, without this, He, Washington, himself, would have never questioned his "leaders", either!

(And, mormons gleefully suspend that "right to question" and obey the likes of that bald-headed wonderkind named Oaks, for whatever kind of payoff it is that they receive, for doing so.)

ROMNEY IS A DISINGENUOUS LIAR: HE HAS ALREADY PROVEN THIS, ON VARIOUS OCCASIONS. He is no good, for the job of President of the United States!

On so many levels, Romney is UN-AMERICAN (as I have outlined, above) and so is every mormon who thinks like he does, with their supercilious Article of Faith and their perversion of what constitutes true liberty.

Huh!? The incomprehensible rant aside ... the 12th Article of Faith is/was merely an affirmation by Joseph Smith in a letter to a Chicago journalist that the Latter-day Saints as a society were not a theocracy in rebellion against civil government (as some critics of the time charged), but believed in being subject to civil governments. This idea is expanded upon in the LDS "Doctrine and Covenants" which Latter-day Saints view as part of the LDS cannon.

Nataylia...............seriously??????????????????????/

@Nataliya S

I can simplify this for you. We believe in being law-abiding citizens of whatever country we are a citizen of. That isn't such a bad thing, is it?

And yes, if we had a monarchy instead of a President then, yes, we would be loyal subjects to such monarch. In fact there are members of our church in countries all over the world and those members believe they should be law-abiding citizens of the countries in which they live. To me that seems to be something that most people believe.

You know, there are dozens of different forms of governments. Maybe you prefer the constitutional republic that we have in the U.S. over other forms. But there are many other types of governments that can work just fine. There can also be evil people who take advantage of their power and oppress the citizens who they should be serving.

That said, should there be a government or leader that goes to the extreme (Hitler for example) we believe in protecting the lives of those who are in danger.

We don't believe in imposing our religion on people. We invite people to learn more about us and what we believe, because what we believe is very important to us. But that doesn't mean that Mitt Romney or any other elected official who is Mormon would try to turn our country into a theocracy. It is not an ambition of our church to impose our will on others. That would not be in line with our beliefs.

I just don't understand this hatred. It is not very Christ-like. We don't feel the same way towards other religions or toward those who are atheist or agnostic.

www.utlm.org check it out for yourself

@ Donna-3896926

Out of courtesy I did check your website. Although there is some correct information there, there is also quite a bit of misinformation. Many of your explanations, historical references and scriptural references are totally inaccurate.

You could save a lot of time and energy trying to educate people as to what Mormons believe by directing them to www.mormon.org. There people can find correct information about our church and what we believe.

@ simple is enough

Thanks for perverting your own church's doctrine: you are, of course, not a spokesperson, so you cannot be the official personage to "explain what it 'really' means". (Thomas S. Monson would not approve of you doing that).

The Article of Faith #12 still stands, in its real meaning: it "means what it says". If you don't believe that Article, as it stands, then you don't believe it.

I somehow knew that you would go and rephrase it, to fit your own worldview, instead of taking it as it reads. You, too, learned it, like Romney did, when you were old enough to recite things, over and over, in your church classes, no doubt.

The fact that you never have looked at it for what it really says speaks to your church's effective brainwashing methods.

Even Hinckley (now deceased) quoted that dumb Article of Faith, to Mike Wallace, in an interview. Hinckley, in doing so, was telling Wallace, "We are no threat to governments; we abide by the law."

That is well and good, to be law-abiding: but, as I emphasized, already, George Washington never suspended his inalienable right to "criticize" the English monarchy: he did not subject himself to same. Had he been a mormon, he would have obeyed the king's law, just like you. (And, you would have been a Loyalist, instead of a freedom fighter: you can't have it both ways!)

Don't try to "do Joseph Smith's thinking for him". Just read it for what it says. By being willing to honor, obey, and sustain a king, you would not have fought to remove the tyranny, out of the land. To "obey the king's law" is to obey, follow, and sustain a tyranny.

I would never pledge to subject myself to a king: why do YOU?

Every time you recite that insipid Article of Faith, of yours, you pledge your willingness to subject yourself to "rulers" (something for which George Washington would have been ashamed of you).

Dallin H. Oaks actually DID say this:

...

"Don't [question] The Brethren: even if they are wrong!"

...

Only in a tyranny does one find him or herself willing to suspend the right of critical inquiry (and, thus, to obey without question). Again, George Washington did not do that, friend!

Your religion has nothing in common with the principles of true liberty!

Why don't you just renounce your willingness to subject yourself to a king. That way, people will see that you aren't a Loyalist King-man, after all!

If Romney truly believes that plank of your religion (for, all thirteen of those articles are basic planks, of your religion), then he is unfit for the job.

And, it is Absolutely True that Romney never was a pro-choice liberal who then "had an epiphany", when he suddenly now says that he is pro-family. (I don't believe that your stake presidents can be pro-choice and fill that job, in the church): Romney lied about being pro-choice, in order to "seem like" a Massachusetts liberal, as I described, in my remarks.

In short, Romney has lief and fabricated and prevaricated, in the past. He and the late Paul H. Dunn would have been good bed-fellows (viz., birds of a feather) for being expert at making up things, both of them.

ROMNEY--the liar and prevaricator---IS UNFIT FOR OFFICE!

Romney's willingness to "...be subject to kings..." makes him someone who is not a champion of true liberty. (George Washington stands in direct contrast to Romney).

P.S: As for yourself, just repent of your own willingness to subject yourself to a king and other rulers (which includes dictators): after all, that is what your Article of Faith actually says, young man!

(Don't try to put "spin" on things: Gordon Hinckley's PR department is the one that does that, for you! Let 'them' do the job of putting the spin on things. OK?)

Just repent of your loyalist attitude and mindset

(And, go and march right up to The Church Office Building and tell them that the U.S. Constitution says to create checks and balances....even inside your insipid religion, in order to have true liberty. You won't do that, though: you are too much of a loyalist coward).

ADDENDUM (correction)

"In short, Romney has LIED and fabricated and prevaricated, in the past."

TRUE AMERICANS are not LOYALISTS: you cannot be a loyalist and a champion of true liberty, at the selfsame time! (That would be an oxymoron, to be "subject to" a president. Presidents are YOUR servants, not the other way around.

Yes most likely they would have been Loyalists. What is wrong with that Canada to the north is a Free land. The oppression of the US by King George was minute they paid far less taxes then England did. It was a war about being represented.

If DC declared war because it has no representation would you be a TRUE AMERICAN and join them and Fight against America and its tyranny? Or would you be a LOYALIST?

They would follow a king: UN-AMERICAN

If you live in a country that has a King then your not an American and you are fallowing their laws.

They would sustain their leader dogs and subject themselves to same: UN-AMERICAN

Do you believe in being subject to laws? or should the country have no laws? If we had no LAWS we would be a true free country but your not free you fallow laws.

The South thought that the North was being unjust and were by passing the states laws to abolish Slavery and they Rebelled. Sounds Like You would be a True American and fight for Slavery (which is agents American Ideals)

Why don't you just renounce your willingness to subject yourself to a king. That way, people will see that you aren't a Loyalist King-man, after all!

The United states does not have a King so I am subject to the Government. I pay may taxes do you?

Romney's willingness to "...be subject to kings..." makes him someone who is not a champion of true liberty. (George Washington stands in direct contrast to Romney).

Would you prefer some one that would get DC and the US Territory's to declare war on the US for not giving them Representation in the Government? That would be a TRUE AMERICAN after all right?

Should the US give Hawaii back to its people because they forced their Queen to give up the Island and put them in jail? They Violated the agreement. the US refused to give them back the Island and for years subjected them to laws with out representation.

Your religion has nothing in common with the principles of true liberty!

If you believed in true Liberty then you would buy a gun and start war on the US for ruling DC with out representation and doing just what a King did 3000 miles away. Some people after the Revolution tried to rebel against the New Government in the US it was called the Whisky rebellion they felt they and traded themselves for 300 tyrant's right at home. Would you have joined them and be a True American?

If you lived in that time period you may not think your choices would be so clear and easy to make.

At least the Mormons embraced the blacks, and were persecuted in the South for it. Joseph Smith wanted to become President to end the racial and religious bigotry in this Country. He was killed for it. It's sad that even after 150+ years in this Country, we are no better off then we were back then.

The main difference is the Mormon faith started in the 18th century after the Enlightenment and modern Science began to take root and early Protestants decided to interpret the Bible more literally then they did before and became Mormons. The Bible says that we are all God's children created in His image. For most educated people, we agree children created in the image of their parents have the potential of becoming adults too. If the Bible didn't repeatedly say that we were children of God, I bet those early Protestants from America and England wouldn't have ever started the Mormon religion, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, the bible does not say we are all God's children, made in his image. It says we are all his creation, created in his image. It says we have to be adopted into his family to be considered his children, a close relationship shared with him that is not inclusive of everyone who are outside the faith.

Do you believe (as the scriptures tell us) that we are joint heirs with Christ? And if joint heirs, we will inherit all that the Father has? There are other religions who believe in the deification of man..........because it is scriptural. Phillipians 2:5-6....."Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.....the scriptures go on to speak of the condescention of God. God became man so that man can become God...... Joint heirs with Christ, to all the Father hath. Again, the principle of the deification of man, IS NOT new with the Mormon's.

Jesus said it before the Mormons did:

Psalms 82:6 --I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

John 10:34 --Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

I guess you're going to say that the dead sea scrolls with writings of Paul and others never existed too, because the canon was closed. Hard to argue against DNA evidence and things that you can both see and touch.

I think the main point here is that Christian and Mormon beliefs ARE different. They follow different scripture bases as their authority for salvation. Christians aren't Mormons, and Mormons aren't Christians.

Christians use a lot of Jewish text, but they are not Jewish by theology, because of the Jesus factor. Jews are not Christian unless they accept Christ and Christian theology. Basic stuff. The point here is not necessarily to argue the rights/wrongs of each religion but to get the basic facts straight; THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

Mormons believe in Christ and that he is our Savior, THEY ARE CHRISTIAN. Thats what Christian means.

To find out the truth go to www.utlh.org

To find out the truth about what anti Mormon's believe about Mormon's go to utlh.org........to find out the truth about what Mormon's believe about Mormon's go to lds.org or mormon.org