Did you actually vote for yourself armyguy? That's really self-centered much like Cain's 9-9-9 plan.

Look at it this way. A person making 20,000 a year paying 18 percent taxes (which is what this "9-9-9" things really is in the way of income taxes) would pay $3,600 in taxes, leaving them with $16,400 to live on. A person making 2 million a year would pay $360,000, leaving them with 1, 640,000. Now, who do you think is going to have problems getting by in that scenario?

And thats if the rich don't get those tax breaks (which they will) that they get now. Since they make the rules and get politicians elected, you know there will be loopholes. Then again its all a moot point. People in hell will get ice water before Cain is the nominee of the republicans. That, death and taxes you can count on.

Americans really love sex, otherwise they would not support what these people do to us.

"Cain's 9-9-9 plan is the devil upside down." - Michele Bachmann

@snk: No, but tempting...

@Shogun69: Current Corporate tax rates are 35% and as such they raise the price of all goods by said percent so they can pay the tax. By lowering this to nine percent the cost of goods will drop drastically. The 9% sales tax will be added to the items. 9% Corporate + 9% sales= 18% which is less then the current 35% which is passed on to the consumer. Yes there will be a nine percent income tax for all, however the dollar will have more purchasing power. As to loopholes, the plan states unequivocally that there will be no deductions or write offs. If it makes you feel happier imagine a rich person paying that 9% sales tax when they buy their luxury car or huge house.

@igloo: Yep, that's why people still support Obama.

Armyguy- You really believe any Corp's pay 35% ???? You don't think that with all the loop holes for the Corp's and the rich, that they would even pay the 18%? Go back to your land of unicorns and fairies, blaming the tax code on why Corp's have been outsourcing for years now is frankly stupid. They have lot's of workers overseas that they can pay low wages and no benefits too. Look at IBM two huge data centers in India why? Meanwhile they are laying off longtime employees, and hiring in contractors, no benefits. The employees now have to do the same work, as 2-3 used to do. Meanwhile no cost of living raises, and the raises if you get one is 1-2%, meanwhile they are making record profits. The CEO and upper managment is making millions in salary, bonus's and stock! God bless Capitalism!

Army, you are as frakkin' crazy as a loon if you think the corporations would drop the price on ANYTHING! How about those Bush tax breaks that were supposed create jobs? Every SANE person in the world knew that the corporations would pocket the money from the tax breaks and not do a bloody thing for the working class. I have a fair tax idea... how about for every $1000 if anual income, you pay 0.01% sales tax on items. And make a base income level of $10,000 per year to figure the amount a person pays in taxes on a gallon of gas... if you make $10,000 you pay $0.52 per gallon in taxes... if you make $5,000, you pay $0.26... if you make $100,000, you pay $5.20... sound fair? Under Cain's plan, someone who makes $10,000 per year would pay the same amount of tax on $200 of groceries as someone who makes $60,000 per hour... I guess the Republican plan is ALWAYS to try to squeeze the poor if everything they could ever hope to have... reverse Robin Hood policies...

army

Yea, just think of the 9% increase in the cost of food, medication, gas, so on, so on and so on. Those you live from paycheck to paycheck. Get screwed again right. While the CEO's on wall street will just start to get their pay in stock shares which under the 9-9-9 will not have to pay taxes on it. Great system hey?

Unless the current 16,000 page tax code is changed things will (duh) stay the same. No matter what plan is chosen some people will pay more (likely those who don't pay anything or anything much now) and some people will pay less. That isn't the point. No matter what plan is chosen politicians and reporters will be able to hold up an example of one person or another who will gain or lose.

The question then becobmes this: keep the status quo or make the system better for everyone and the nation. Personally I don't know if I win or lose in a 9-9-9 world, or flat tax, or whatever, but what I do know is that a 16,000 page tax code was purchased from politicians one page or paragraph at a time, and it is inherently unfair and corrupt.

Argue all you want. Our current tax code is crap and changes are going to affect everyone. Or we can keep what we've got and keep complaining. What is your choice, which option do you pick?

Army, you do realize that the enlisted ranks of the military will be especially shafted under this plan? First they lose 9% off the bat to income taxes. Junior enlisted folks make very little money to begin with and the rest of their money ends up going to food, medicine, and personal necessities which is subject to the 9% sales tax (if bought off base)...So some E-4 out there trying to raise a family struggles while your buddy Cain pays nothing on his $1.3 million profits from capital gains...that really seems fair....

Cain's strategy is simple. Appeal to the ignorant and gullible, of which there are many in this country, and make them believe that they will be better off. It's an old and well-used ploy to get folks like Armyguy fired up and thinking, yeah he's right. Evangelical preachers do it all the time, and gullible people give them money. They are no better off but the preacher rakes in millions.

Cain is a skilled rabble rouser. He speaks to the masses. Like a salesman selling used cars or pizza, separating the suckers from their money. He's just what we need as a leader of our country, a snake oil salesman.

If you're a big fan of cabinets filled with Wall Street Insiders, then you will be absolutely at home with Herman Cain as the president. Rather than worry about Obama continuing to play the role of puppet for Wall Street, maybe we should just elect Cain for president, a former Director for the Federal Reserve. That sounds like a REALLY GREAT IDEA EVERYONE..... No way there can be any problem with that..... no chance of more insiders from wall street running our country.... nothing to see here.... believe everything you are told and continue to consume... Your government loves you and would never lie to you...

Why have a puppet when we could have a former puppet master?

The fact that this guy is popular shows one thing: American Ignorance

Army,

In some states, the tax increase will be 37% take Tennessee, it already has a 10% sales tax. So in Tennessee its 9-9-10-9.

This is a very evil plan, it will hurt the poor the greatest. The Reason the Poor do not pay taxes is they have no money to do so after caring for their families. Some of the the working poor, work 2 jobs also and still barely afford food on the table. Madman Cain would make sure the Poor end up with the street, along with the Disabled, and Elderly (He is going to get rid of the payroll tax thus ending Social Security and he expects the Church and Local Government to take care of the Elderly and Disabled... That will not happen in a million years).

Typical, common everyday, dime a dozen greedy republican.

Does anyone actually believe that this flat tax proposition is not a sham ?

Having a progressive tax system with no exemptions would be fair. But, since the system is run for the benefit of the few at the expense of the many, fairness doesn't enter the picture.

After all the freeloaders on top need more to invest in this country. I'm sure that they are more than willing to sell me prime swamp land in Florida.

Magnum I suggest people leave TN if they don't like the state and local taxes there. They are free to do so. That's the great thing about liberty and America - you're free to do that.

And James you are just soooooooooooo much smarter than alllll the rest !!

Do you honestly believe that if we lower corporate taxes they will lower their prices? This summer, a federal tax on the aviation industry expired, which should have lowered the airline ticket prices by about $40-$50 each. Did the airlines pass on those savings? Nope. They pocketed the cash. Every. Single. One.

But you're right, we should just ignore how corporations always screw us over. I'm sure THIS time we can trust them, right?

Honestly, you people remind me of Charlie Brown. Bet you still think he'll make his next field goal, right?

So far the lefties have gotten the 9-9-9 plan almost completely wrong, and its the simplest plan out there.

Cain would pa 9% on the capital gains, as it is INCOME. The author is just as misleading as the liberal knuckleheads.

Food is exempt. As will drugs.

No one wants to tax poor people. But 50% of wage earners aren't poor.

There will be no tax code, no IRS, but simply a flat tax. Maybe it needs modification, but bottom line is the current system is so corrupt as to be unfixable.

But for all those liberals claiming millionaires and billionaires pay NO taxes, why the sudden outcry that 18 - 27% + state and local taxes isn't enough?

And please, enough of the "you know they won't pay anything"... as you are already lying when you say that, as the top 10% pay 75% of all taxes, and the top 1% pay 40%.

If we knew more details it may be ok. Like any one that makes less then 20k a year pays not taxes. They can wear a green arm ban when they go to make a purchase. Then we can make some other exceptions as a one page tax code will make it look like congress is not doing their job.

The only way this will get onto the books would be by revolution. Congress is incapable of making any decision that changes the way things are now.

Can't even get a jobs bill passed

Paul F , your post is a pack of lies. Capital gains would be exempt. This would allow the gap between the ultra wealthy and us peons to grow even faster.

Also, no one is saying all of the millionaires and billionaires pay no taxes, but there are some that don't. What we say is that considering that the top 5% take home 31.9 percent off all income, they don't pay in as much as they should in taxes.

Definitely smarter than you RetREMF

It's a good idea, but I think make it 12-12! Eliminate income tax. No American should have to pay for a tax preparer or feel afraid of maybe going to jail for filing wrong. Personal taxes are another invasion of privacy from the government. Why should we as FREE Americans have to take days or weeks out of our lives to figure our taxes when there should be a simple sales tax to take care of it!

Cain doesn't even know how his gimmick would work. A "one page tax code"? What a laugh...

OK. I have a rental house. Any gains on the value of the house would be tax free. Fine. But I get rent as income. And I pay for a mortgage, for repairs, insurance, and property taxes (state level taxes). The thing barely cash flows. Do I still take off interest from my mortgage off the rent income? Do I take of state and local taxes? Do I take off the cost of repairs? What about the "federal sales taxes" on the purchases I made for the house... do those come off or not? If the answer to all of these is "no", and I suspect it is, then I'll just put the house to flames because me paying 9% taxes on the pure rent income is insanity. This would make rental property unprofitable, would break those of us that have any, and would wipe out rentals as we know it today. Am I wrong?

Oops. I guess we still would need more than a one page tax code. All his plan does is replace a one-page tax rate schedule with a one-page flat tax statement of "9". We couldn't live through the transition otherwise.

AND... Has anyone calculated the burden on businesses of collecting, reporting, and sending in the 9% federal sales tax? Does anyone remember the outrage at the provision in the HCR bill where they required people to do W-9 reporting? Well this is a hundred times the trouble. Where's the outrage now?

Actually enacting a plan like this would be a direct risk to our economy... no... to our lives. The current tax code has incentives and dis-incentives to encourage or discourage certain investments and behaviors. Remove them all at once and nobody can predict the consequences. It would shift money like there's no tomorrow, leaving vast holes in some investment areas, and glutting others.

You cannot get rid of the basic principle of offsetting your income with the expenses it took to make it. Please tell me how that would work. Virtually EVERYTHING would be restructured to look like stocks!

Let the games begin.

Absolute gimmickry, foolishness, and slight-of-hand.

Just how is everyone paying the same share if some income is not subject to taxation? Sounds like Cain only wants to tax the income you actually have to work for.

Even if 9.9.9. worked the government would find a way to screw it up, why wasn't their a mention of a trade tax to get unbalanced trade in line, allow fair competition, like we had before free trade. People on fixed incomes would be hit hardest.

Bob Johnson, sorry but your post is lies.

Directly from Heman's web site.

"Gross income less charitable deductions"

And the real kicker!

"Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits"

The VAST majority of capital gains are taken by the top 5%. Hardly any of the income for the upper 1% is wages, it's all capital gains! Who is really making out here? Not the vast majority. Cain's plan is another giveaway to the rich at the expense of those of us that work for their money.

Yes, that is why he did it. He said, "you know, I am going to run for president and make myself more money." Really? Geez. he could make more money NOT being president.

Goes to show that his elevator doesn't go all the way up...

Doesn't need to go all the way up. Just to the same floor as the rest of the GOP.

Well if a brother can't butter his own bread who's going too?

Showgun69 (post #2):

"I'm shocked that a multi-millionaire politician would propose financial laws that would benefit him personally!"

Well, I'm not the least bit surprised at the elite's blatantly, arrogant attitude bordering on criminal like behavior. I guess robbing from the poor comes in all racial colors when you are wealthy. The wealthy have become so confident of what is due for them. This attitude has been the entire agenda of the Rethuglican are already to take away all SS from everyone to make way for more available money lining their greedy deep pockets. Wake up you young folks because the next step is to repeal the minimum wage salaries so that they can pay you even less in wages. That is not just a threat or a bet, but a promise. They've already been talking about that for sometime now. There will not be even one cent left for any benefits. You will be nothing more than a complete slave to their whims with no power at all while the rich aristocrats get out of paying all the taxes. So who else is left to pay those taxes??? 100% of the burden will be upon the middle class (if one is left), the poor, and the elderly. The Rethuglican State Governors are already taking steps to selectively limit who can vote by redistricting to eliminate the less wealthy voters, who tend to vote Democratic. You young folks will be next on the list to ax. It is all about permanent control of everyone by not allowing them a voice, the voting privileges, or the opportunity to challenge the greedy aristocrats. The words, "Gestapo Rethuglicans" come to mind. And isn't that exactly what you are seeing in the streets now with objections to big greedy corporations??? They have the money and you don't! Therefore, you do not count and they don't mind throwing that in your face. They will write the laws and the Hell with everyone else. You can be sure that they will not allow the freedom of speech, which already showed up in the Bush Days. Those, who objected to the Bush policies were hauled off, never to be heard from or seen again to include the outing of a Federal Agent (Valerie Plaine) because the spouse complained about the Admin. And of course you'll notice that Cheney did not spend one day in jail for that crime, since Rethuglicans are never to blame for anything. If you want to be completely controlled, then get your lobotomy and vote for the thugs. Too many of the politicians have been pandering to the elites, and that includes Obama as well. Where are the real Abe's or Kennedy's, who have a desire to serve the people rather than a class of society? What we need is a good depression to humble the elite by giving them a taste of what we are already experiencing from their greedy governing. Do more shopping with small businesses and avoid the larger companies!!! Because if they didn't have our support, they wouldn't be able to stand on their own two feet.

Independent Thinker, I would have to agree with you. But I would have to more directly state (I think you might have been touching on this) that both the Republicans and the Dems are the problem, they both answer to same corporations and wealthy constituents. It's an ugly, slanted, and corrupt cesspool out there in popular politics these days. If you a plan like 999 and and made it more like 5555 (the other 5 being capital gains), you have even more tax revenue than the 999 plan, and a huge, but natural stimulus package for consumers, rich, middle class, and corporations. This would obviously create a buttload of jobs as well, and just maybe the corporations could "insource" some of those faraway jobs right back to this country. The solutions are simple, but the ones in control don't want to give up a dime if they can avoid it, which makes it near impossible.

Bob,

Don't lie. Obama tricked everyone and lied about being editor of the Harvard Law Review? Do you know how easy that is to fact check?

"Did you buy a house you couldn't afford because Barny Frank made it easy for you to do so? Lost it because of his variable interest loans. Your fault for being gullible.

DId you buy a car you couldn't afford and got it reposessed? Your fault for being gullible.

Did you have a baby and daddy doesn't pay child support? Your fault for being gullible."

Did you think Cain's 9-9-9 idea was good? Your fault for being gullible.

What a laugh, nice try attempting to paint anyone who doesn't agree with the 9-9-9 as leeches on society. Well guess what, I have a job, I pay taxes and 9-9-9 is absurd. Completely, totally, unequivocally absurd.

"I'm shocked that a multi-millionaire politician would propose financial laws that would benefit him personally!"

In Germany, Cain's 9-9-9 plan means "No! No! No!"

I applaud the guy for trying to think of something different. The problem here though is that being different does not mean being good. BetaMax was something different, but it wasn't necessarily good.

The Herman Cain 9-9-9 plan is a disaster in the making. On the surface, it looks like a good thing because who doesn't want to pay lower taxes. The problem though is that it shifts the financial burden onto the backs of the people that can least afford it for starters. To finish it off, the last 9 he has stands for the national sales tax of 9%. Keep in mind that this would be in addition to the current state/ county/ city/ local/ tax that we already pay. Here in Broward County, FL, that rate is 6.5%. That would mean that I would now have to pay 15.5% taxes on everything I purchase (read inflationary effect here).

The real problem though lies in the amount of revenue this 9-9-9 plan will ultimately generate. In order to raise the current amount of revenue that we are generating, the sales tax would need to be closer to 25%. In order to raise the amount of revenue to cover our current expenditures, that amount would need to be closer to 40%.

Maybe we need to spend less.

The real danger here though lies in the fact that a national sales tax almost ALWAYS morphs into a Value Added Tax (VAT). If you don't know what that means, do some research on the subject. I promise you won't like what you read.

Nice try Herman. I give you an A for effort but a failing grade on the result that it brings.

Actually Betamax was good. Better in fact. But that's just one example of how the best product doesn't always win in our capitalistic society.

Bob,

What evidence do you have to support your claim that President Obama obtained a scholarship available only to foreign student?

And I was going to bring up your incorrect statement about the BetaMax, but someone beat me too it.

@ Bob-3374873

Obama never had any money before he became president. Now he is a millionaire.

Bob, as with everything you said this is wrong too.

"Barack and Michelle Obama, who filed their 2008 taxes jointly, earned $2,656,902 last year."

"They paid $855,323 in federal income taxes, and $77,883 in Illinois state income taxes. The couple also donated $172,050 to 37 charities, including $25,000 each to CARE, which fights global warming, and the United Negro College Fund."

It appears that the only people that would benefit from the Cain 999 plan only benefits the wealthy. Typical Republican mind set.

"Obama also derived income from his new children's book, "Of Thee I Sing: A Letter to My Daughters," but he donated all proceeds to a charity benefiting children of slain and disabled soldiers, the White House said"

How many Republicans actually gave any money to the children of slain or disabled veterans? They like to wrap themselves in the flag and call themselves patriots but how many of them actually walk the walk and help veterans. Last I heard of a Republican doing anything that concerns the veterans was reducing funds to veteran hospitals.

The difference between Republicans and Democrats is the Democrats like to help those less fortunate than themselves where the Republicans like to help those that can help them.

9-9-9 is just another scam by the GOP to dump the tax burden onto the poor and working middle classes!

The GOP has tried for the last 50 years to get rid of Capital Gains Taxes. Capital Gains is how the wealthy make the majority of their incomes. Of course these moral-less scumbags want to do away with them.

Think about what Cain's plan will do w/ the auto industry. Who will by a new car w/ a 9% sales tax on it. If I collect on my spouses $100,000 life insurance I will only have $91,000 to spend. I live on SS will I now have to give 15% of that back to the Feds. (9% income, 9% on what I spend in retirement -- my food etc.) I only get $20,000 a year. What about my savings, I've already paid taxes on them, when I hit them for money in my retirement I will have to pay the Feds another 9% (sales tax) just for THE PRIVILEGE OF using my money. What about the tax deferred income -- will we be ripped off there too. 9 9 9 Supporters, read the articles written by the economists. The economists are unanimous 9 9 9 sucks really bad for most of us. WHERE'S THE AARP?

999=911 The Pizza man sold his soul to the Rich, this plan is not for the middle class, its for the Rich !

The wealthy consume more than anyone else...they'll pay a fortune. If you don't like Cain, just keep barry in...he'll finish the country off with more taxes.

that's a lie-your taxes are lower now than they ever have been.

More delusional Republican propaganda. And you fell for it.

Hold on a second...

Obama says "Everyone must pay their fair share."

The only way that is possible is if everyone pays the exact same tax rate. That way everyone pays the same share of their income toward taxes. That is only possible with a tax system with no deductions, credits, AMT, brackets, etc., etc. -- or in other words, a FLAT TAX.

Either Obama wants a flat tax or he is lying when he says, "Everyone must pay their fair share."

I don't have anything against the idea of a flat tax because I think it is right for everyone to pay their fair share. I don't think fair share means higher rates for the more you make and no tax if you make very little. Fair share means equal tax rate....across the board.

That said, I don't like Cain's plan because I'm not sold that 9-9-9 is the right way to do it. He might be on the right track, but those who have examined the plan have already found too many problems with the way the plan is proposed. Nonetheless, I think Cain's plan is easier to fix than the current tax code we already have. Unfortunately for Cain, his substance is running out and he will shortly find himself on the outside looking in.

Simple is enough - "Fair share" does not necessarily mean equal. Those at the top consume more of the commons, so they should pay more, or at least equal in terms of percentage of income than those who have less income.

Mad Town -

I don't exactly understand your comment.

Here is an example of what I meant, if it helps...

$1,000,000 income taxed at 10% would be $100,000 in taxes paid.

$50,000 income taxed at 10% would be $5,000 in taxes paid.

Same tax rate, higher income pays more tax dollars. How is that not an unfair tax system? Doesn't that mean fair share? Everyone pays the same rate. Those who are more successful financially pay the same rate but far more total dollars.

It sounds to me that people are unhappy, not because the rich don't pay enough in taxes, but because they themselves aren't rich. Everything I'm hearing from people is that they are unhappy with capitalism and want redistribution of wealth, a classless state, no gap between the rich and poor....or in other words, COMMUNISM.

Now think about how well that has worked for other countries...

Under Cain's plan the second richest man in America Warren Buffet would have his taxes go down from 17.4% TO 9%. Since "house boy" Cain gets the majority of his funding from the billionaire Koch brothers who are the 5th richest in America how much do you think their taxes would go down. BTW as the weath of the "JOB CREATORS" Koch brothers has gone up they actually employ less people.

Herman Cain is just another corporatist pig bellying up to the trough. All right wing politicians have no conscience and there is no limit to their greed. The Koch brothers are paying jerks like Cain to destroy OUR government and should be charged with treason.

Unless the current 16,000 page tax code is changed things will (duh) stay the same. No matter what plan is chosen some people will pay more (likely those who don't pay anything or anything much now) and some people will pay less. That isn't the point. No matter what plan is chosen politicians and reporters will be able to hold up an example of one person or another who will gain or lose and say, "THIS is why this plan is a bad idea."

The question then becomes this: keep the status quo or make the system better for everyone and the nation? Personally I don't know if I win or lose in a 9-9-9 world, or flat tax, or whatever, but what I do know is that a 16,000 page tax code was purchased from politicians one page or paragraph at a time, and it is inherently unfair and corrupt.

Argue all you want. Our current tax code is crap and changes are going to affect everyone. Some will pay more and some will pay less. Or, we can keep what we've got and keep complaining about it. What is your choice, which option do you pick? What plan is for the general benefit of all? That is the best plan. Anything is better than the graft ridden political tax code we have now.

norm903: I agree that our tax code is one lousy formation. Problem with it generally is; those who don't earn much or work for wages get screwed much more than those who earn so much they get to determine their net from gross. It's nothing more than a handbook of favorable rations for the well fed hogs.

The Democratic party of wealth behind slavery. The wealth that wanted to suceed from the union because they wanted things their own way.

It goes on and on still to this day.

Bob - The Obama's didn't have any money at all prior to him becoming President. Only $1.7 million net worth in 2005. He may have "only" made about $100k per year ($60k for Ill. state senator, $32k for lecturing at University of Chicago), but Michelle made over $300k per year as VP for Univ. of Chicago Medical Center.

$1.7 mil may not be a lot of money to you and me (sarcasm, at least on my part) but to most working class American's it's a bit more than chump change.

According to tax filings the Obamas gave only 1% of income. Other proof that Rev Wrights church was just a front and that The Current President is anything but a Christian. Cause the golden rule of thithing for Christians is 10% of income.

Obama never had any money before he became president. Now he is a millionaire.

Why are some people so proud of being ignorant?

A lie does not become true just because you say it.

First of all, the Obama family pass the millionaire dollar mark in net worth on paper BEFORE the election, not after. The major contributing factor was sales of two books written by Mr. Obama. Mrs. Obama also had a healthy income as an administrator at a major nationally recognized hospital.

In spite of your insipid insinuations, NONE of the Obama's income has come from graft, as even you must surely admit, else there would be a huge scandal.

Maw: (Post 2.19)

The wealthy consume more than anyone else...they'll pay a fortune. If you don't like Cain, just keep barry in...he'll finish the country off with more taxes.

As a percentage of income earned, the wealthy consume very little. The average Joe Lunchbox on the street that pays little to nothing in taxes because he/ she makes $50K per year or less consumes nearly 100% of their income if not more, just to make ends meet. If you put a national sales tax of 9% on everyone in this country, the effects would be disastrous to about half the population of this country.

A progressive tax is not a bad thing, in fact it is still the very best solution. It could certainly be better and more fair - I fully agree. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater though as there is absolutely zero empirical evidence that demonstrates where a flat tax is fair. The only people that are advocating a flat tax as fair are the Heritage Foundation and the Cato Institute. Keep in mind that these organizations are funded primarily by people of the same mind set and wealth strata as the Koch brothers. They have a clear agenda of increasing their personal wealth at any cost.

How do you know they paid a lot of money for their nice stuff? Maybe they got them at a garage sale. I have a beautiful set of china that was my mother's. It's over 50 years old. Looks lovely but cost me nothing.

One of myfavorites is Michelle O serving the poor in a soup kitchen where the so-called poor are all on cell phones. If they are really poor, how can they afford cell phones? Please you poor folks explain that. I can't afford a cell phone like they have, I am unemployed, and I have never eaten in s soup kitchen or receive welfare. Please explain why you deserve more than me when I have worked for 4 decades and never could afford what you take for granted?

You do realize that mobile phones aren't considered a luxury right? Mobile phones in most cases are cheaper than landlines. Telephone service is kind of a necessity to keep in contact with family members if a person is poor and does not have a permanent address and is moving from shelter to shelter.

There are many low-cost mobile phones that one might choose. Pay as you go is one option.

Let me know when you are done with the cheap Michelle Obama shots.

Bob:

You know toilet paper is considered a luxury in some countries. Can you afford the luxury of using toilet paper Lil Po Bob? I sure hope you're not that poor considering you obviously have a computer at your disposal. Your priorities are not that screwed up are they Lil Po Bob?

Obama/Biden 2012!

Even a fair system will be abused. This is an argument for another story.

Here's an alternative plan. It might be called 15-15

1. Tax only paper income, not labor income. That is, tax capital gains and dividends at 15%, and tax income on wages at zero. This incentivises people to work. Those who have enough to left over after buying food, clothing, shelter and IPhones to buy stocks will still need some place to invest their hard earned cash, so investment money ain't gonna dry up.

2. Eliminate the cap on payroll tax. Everybody gets to pay 15% (still split between employee and employer) for it on all their income. That should add solvency to SS for at least another 20-30 years.

No one seems to mention that this is a Federal tax plan. It will be in addition to all the state taxes we already have.

You all do realize that the tax would actually be 18%, not 9%, right? 9% when you earn it and 9% when you spend it means it really costing you 18%. Plus, here in MO, another 8.25% state/local tax when you spend it. Total tax to buy anything = 26.25%. For someone with a $40k annual income that would equal about $10,500 in annual taxes.

It should be a nonstarter that 47% of tax filers don't pay anything ! How is that fair?

Here is why 47% of households owe no federal income tax and why it is just a misleading GOP/TP talking point. That would be, oh, maybe 60 million registered republicans? ;-)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html

HOw is it misleading?? It is true. The difference is you think that is okay . I don't.

Because 47% barely make enough to get by!

People who complain about those who pay no income taxes are real Scrooges. Why do people complain when they have enough income to pay taxes and someone else has so little that they don't meet the requirements to pay? It is better to have enough than to worry about whether you can pay the rent, have food or medicine. Where are all those Christian caring folks who care about others? Are these the people who fuss about having Ten Commandments in public places or God mentioned on coins and the pledge. It's a bit much to hear the selfishness that these statements bring to light.

Now - fixing loopholes and increasing the taxes on those with higher incomes is something to consider, particularly when the financial picture would improve with our deficit problem.

I's easy to find the Christian caring folks. Look up "Hospital" in the yellow pages and you will see....Most are built and financed by Christians. Few government hospitals.

Need a place to stay or food to eat. Try the salvation army.

Cain seems a little too obscure and pompous (like Obama did); ...and from the looks of it, many people have not seen this "tax plan" in its entirety, realizing from these posts, that there is more to it than we realize.

Another great American screw job. How about NO INCOME TAX above $100,000 income. And the rest, make it 3%. Income tax is illegal anyway...and the whole system needs to be discarded, and redone with common sense, with the focus of helping people keep more of our hard-earned money.

THEN, Watch the economy soar !!!

Skilife, I don't know where you live, but in my neck of the woods and the last several places I have lived, ALL of the hospitals, including those with names of saints or religions in them, are run by huge money-making corporations. They also rely on a lot of government money, particularly if they are research hospitals and/or have doctors and/or nurses who are still completing their studies. I will grant you that many religious and non-religious people do send donations to these hospitals, and I am not discounting these important contributions. But I assure you that the hospitals could not survive without a LOT of government money in grants, Medicaid and Medicare payments, etc. If you know the name of any hospitals that are run only on donations from Christians, I sure would like to know the names of them. I will surely donate. Thanks!

The NYT article is misleading and all over the map. "Yes 47% pay no federal income taxes oh wait yes they do..no well not really...well anyway it is GOP talking points. "

What a crock. 999 puts skin in the game for everybody. If half don't pay they don't care what congress spends somebody else's money for.

The poor in our country typically have color tv's, computers, and air conditioning.

OMG, MAW, you might be right...geez, I bet some of then even have some food, water, and a mattress to sleep on.

RetRMF: I would never want to be one of the people that pay no taxes. To qualify, they are typically a family of four living on less than $50K annually. It is difficult to get by on so little.

I have no problem at all with a progressive tax system. Like Adam Smith, the father of modern economic theory postulated,

The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities...

The Wealth Of Nations, Book V Chapter II Pt II, v. ii, p. 825, para. 3.

It is NOT a gimmick, it came right out of SimCity 4 LMAO!!. Thats the funny part, he is basing his tax plan on SimCity! They need to sue him for infringement...

Notice when he does his speeches he does his best to try and sound like MLK, and he is so far from MLK its not even funny. I hope this guy wins the GOP nomination it would be an easy win for Obama.

And the rich typically have more cars than they can drive, more houses than they can live in, and more luxuries than they possibly need. Your point is?

If you lie the 999 plan then do the math i am convinced tha you will change you mind if you are those that it moe than triples your tax burden like it would for me.Yes I pay taxes,No I am not lazy,No I am not looking for a handout,Be smart and check the formula.On me it doubles state sales tax and more than triples my income tax.

I sorry i meant to say Ifyou like the 999 plan. OOOOPS

who, herman munster?

Bob, The pizza guy is a a$$ and his plan 999 is a "JOKE" and anyone that supports it is dumb. Trickle down Bob. "Obama is Unbeatable !!!!!!!!

I love how folks demonstrate their lack of awareness and knowledge. News flash Green Timer, 1st) Social Security and Medicare are unsustainable as is; 2) The plan is designed to be revenue neutral - meaning bringing in the same amount.

Newsflash RetREMF... Social Security is solvent until 2037 without doing anything to it. Also, if they taxed EVERYBODY at the same rate instead of stopping at $106,000 it would go on forever. But, here again, we don't want to step on those rich folk's toes by making things fair.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

Sacrifice - just wait till (never) this Cain Tax PLan take shape. The real sacrifice is from the people, who have put up with these shenanigans for wayyyy too long.

Something is afoot, and its not good. You can tell after a while when something is ready to come back and bite us on the rump !

RetREMF # 8.2,

SS is unsustainable as is, eh? Well, I guess Cain's elimination of it altogether certainly fixes THAT particular issue.

RetREMF,

Total BS dude, Make everyone pay the same % on all income???

END THE DAMN PAYROLL CAP ON TOP EARNERS AND SOCIAL SECURITY WOULD BE SOLVENT FOREVER...............................

2) The plan is designed to be revenue neutral - meaning bringing in the same amount.

Sure, it is revenue neutral in the whole. But, it isn't neutral for individuals. Lower-paid workers will pay more. Apparently, Cain thinks that they deserve to pay more since they didn't work hard enough to become millionaires. Apparently, he subscribes to the philosphy that God wants everyone to become rich, and he wants to punish anyone who isn't.

Barry, good post.

The Cain plan clearly supports the philosophy that the rich should be paid more to make them work harder, and the poor should be paid less to make them work harder.

A blast from the past: If God wanted women to vote, he'd have made them men.

Cain's catastrophe is not revenue neutral by far. Economists have said that the Fed would bring in $350 billion less per year under this plan. The ONLY ones who will benefit at all from this plan are those making at least 150K per year and the more you make the less you pay. I will never understand why so many insist on supporting the super wealthy.

Cain would not suffer without Social Security and Medicare, he has plenty of money to see him through his remaining years. However, many older people would suffer greatly. Imagine a world without Social Security and what that would mean to you. I dearly loved my parents and in-laws. Thanks to SS and Medicare they lived in their own homes in dignity and had their medical expenses largely paid until they passed away. Without that, all four of them would have been living with my husband and me and teen children...... YIKES! We could never have afforded their care, in terms of money or time or space!

Please, everyone, support Social Security; no matter what it costs you, the alternative would be much more costly, unless you are ready to throw your parents into the street when they get old. And think where you will be.... when you reach your golden years. If you think you can save enough (while also caring for you parents) to afford to live decently while paying all your own medical costs, think again!

Right on Mary!

That's not totally true guy, The 535 people in Congress do what the hell they want after being elected on their promises, most when elected forget their constituents.....

Look at Obama, I'm Promise to end these WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeh Right??

last

sure last. is that why he said on fake news, that the capital gains tax would be 0%!

If you're not a Republican you're a loony Socialist/Marxist! It's that simple to useful idiots.

No that's not true...he does say that there will be no capital gains taxes and that's where he gets all his income from. He's a really smart, accomplished man but he's pandering to the base.

Mostly, any moron who runs out of words, or cannot speak in a logical argument, are the poeple who start name calling - its just indicative of the degraded social skills and intelligence of our legislature - Plus, anyone who calls the American people "stupid" doesn't deserve the time of day, as far as I'm concerned.

What exactly is "fair share"? 47% of filers pay nothing? Is that fair? Why this politics of greed? You want what someone else has or begrudge them what they do have? Go earn it yourself. Quit worrying about what other people earn or have and pay YOUR FAIR SHARE - whatever the hell that is !

Most of the 47% who pay nothing, pay nothing because they have nothing. They are minimum wagers, seniors on Social Security, and people on welfare. The rest are wealthy people who hire "creative accountants" to make sure they pay nothing. We should be ashamed that such a large percentage of our people are too poor to pay taxes.

RetREMF What exactly is "fair share"? 47% of filers pay nothing? Is that fair?

Yup. It's fair. Now will you stop saying this stupid thing?

This is just like the neo-cons protesting against pro choice so a child is not tortured and turned into a criminal that the neo-con's then love to execute. Let's see, tortured child, criminal, dozens of others hurt, execution vs one terminated pregnancy. See any logic in this argument unless you own all of the institutions that profit from supporting the first half of the equation?

Throw the poor out, cut off their support, people live in the streets, flood emergency rooms, children suffer malnutrition and disease, millions of dollars spent to combat the disease when it could have been stemmed from the source and millions would be saved. See any logic in this unless you own an institution that benefits from all the suffering?

The problem with you neo-cons is that you never think anything through. Once it falls off your plate it's someone elses problem. I'd like to see your tough talk when you are stepping over people starving in the streets or need to build a fortress around you home to keep the poor from robbing you.

Those sales of stock are Capital Gains and would be non-taxable.

Middle class are also subjected to capital gains taxes as they withdraw funds they managed to save for their retirement.

One thing I like is that it would eliminate the loopholes entirely and the super rich who can afford to hire big accountants to find the loopholes would finally have to pay their fair share. Look at GE who paid nothing at all.

yeah, let's lay more people off today.... That will really boost the economy.

They could always pick fruit in Alabama, I understand they need help.

Accountants will find other jobs. Lawyers who gives a rats ass.

IRS could only be "eliminated" if there was NO FEDERAL TAX. His plan still requires a federal income tax (tax return required), but would add a MONTHLY tax return for the sales tax - this would NEVER ELIMINATE IRS.

IRS would not be eliminated but the cost of printing all of those booklets created to try to wade through the complicated system would be gone and the massive number of employees required to run the program would be greatly reduced. Every job that the feds create costs us more because it's all paid by taxes and produces nothing toward economic growth.

I would rather pay 39% taxes on a million dollars then nothing on $7.25 and hour. The rich are benefit from the work of the poor and middle class, so they should pay more. Nein, nein, nein to his plan.

My real estate agent is excellent and so is my lawyer. Could not do without them.

I want to know more facts about Mr. Cain. To be a responsible voter I have to take the time to educate myself and not let others influence my thoughts with slogans and hype.

I have seen President Obama. I do not appreciate his leadership. I will not be voting for him unless the GOP nominates Perry.

Skilife, that's how I feel. At least this man has some kind of plan other than just bailing out and creating more government jobs. It's too soon to discount him. I am looking forward to learning more about his plan.

I think the conversation here is about a tax plan that hurts everyone but the wealthy. Nobody is advocating the end of capitalism. However, if you want to believe that go right ahead.

But we are not a truly capitalistic society when we have government propping up private corporations with their subsidies, tax breaks, bailouts, etc...The oil companies, airlines and big banks do not need our money, especially when they are turning a large profit (and still sticking it to the customer for even more profits)

Ah, american exceptionalism. When I hear a republican say that, it seems to mean that he--or she--thinks that everyone should have to earn their own way EXCEPT for him and his kids. If you really want everyone to have to earn their own way in life, then inheritance should be banned--anything left over when a person dies should go to charity. Otherwise, that person's family would not earn their own way in life.

Republicans are the party of me me me. Democrats at least try to be the party of us.

until the mobs showed up to cut off their heads.

LOL

Haven't you noticed? The mobs ARE out.

True, that company has been reduced to selling cheap and tasteless pizzas at gas station convenient stores...why would you pay even 9.99 for that.

And ???

something no one else mentions here is the wealthy have the ability to buy outside of the US. And as such they can avoid the 9% sales tax if they so choose. Because as anyone can you tell you, place like the UK and Canada that have a VAT tax will cheerfully refund it on anything you purchase as you leave the country.

@trinity1984

"They would pay 9% up front in income tax and the bulk of the rest after rent (food, medicine, basic items) would be subject to the 9% sales tax."

The rent, food, medicine, etc., also may be subject to the 9% sales tax!

Don't you know the 999 plan would tax food, medicine and anything else you buy. Didn't you see his interview on MSNBC.

Urban Institute numbers are wrong.

This 9-9-9 idiocy was discussed in great detail Wednesday on First Read. I recommend everyone read the article and the comments.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/12/8290508-tax-group-9-9-9-a-major-tax-cut-for-the-rich-substantial-increase-on-others

This would be a field day for accountants. Federal Income Tax return is still required. Federal Sales Tax returns are filed monthly (not annually). Accountants will be finding all new loopholes for corporations.

Hardly. The 9% sales tax would become a VAT tax for which the US citizenry gets nothing. It would simple be added on to everything you purchase. Corps might still need accountants but no more than they currently employ. The rest of us could fire our accountants because we'd have nothing for them to do.

The 9-9-9 plan will mean plenty of work for accountants, and a lot more IRS folks too.

The statistics are meaningless. Quite simply, the poor can't pay income taxes (they have nothing to pay with) and the rich won't. So who is taxed? Everyone in between. That means you!

No new taxes only applies to the rich. F%$& the poor and middle class.

57% of US corporations pay NO federal income taxes now.

If you compare prices of the same items at the same store in different parts of the same city you will see higher prices in the poorer neighborhoods. The rich don't want the poor coming to their neighborhoods. You can't do comparative shopping or buy in bulk when taking public transportation either. Besides, higher taxes on the poor and middle class hurts businesses that have them as customers. No customers = no business. Trickle down economics doesn't work.

What are you smoking, can i have some please ??????

If you are serious about wanting real facts about the underlying economics, here are some expert analyses. These are non-partisan expert opinions, whose only agenda is trying to separate fact from fiction.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/oct/14/checking-cains-math-9-9-9/

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/oct/13/herman-cain/herman-cain-says-someone-earning-50000-will-save-u/

Spoiler alert: It will not work the way Cain claims it will.

Well, we kept re-electing them, over and over again. Guess we really are stupid.

Why don't we start hanging them?

We keep electing them because the have the money to buy commercial time. How many people research an issue as opposed to just believing what the see on TV? Not many. Just wait, this election will be won by those newly appointed American, Individuals: Corporate America/Wall St.-just more misleading, dirty politcal commercial time. "We all gonna vote for that Cain guy or that Romney guy. He must be the best one a them all, ah seen it on TV."

There are not enough voters who pay attention and investigate the candidates, and too many voters who make their decisions based on writtern propaganda and commercials and who buy into the lies that are fed to them by candidates who will say anything to win. (And there still are a good many voters who will not vote for anyone other than a male WASP.)

As long as a candidate is not an out and out wacko, our elections are bought by the candidate with the most money, period.

We desperately need campaign finance restrictions so that more people, everyday people, have the opportunity to run for office on an even playing field. It is a sin that so many qualified, smart people who are idealistic and truly care about this country and its citizens don't stand a chance against wealthy opponents, so many of whom are self-serving and manipulating (lying, cheating, vindictive, tyrannical, etc., etc.).

And it seems that more and more voters do not think that morals and ethics should reflect on a candidate's (or an incumbent's) ability to represent them. Do they truly believe that people who cheat on their taxes, who cheat on their spouses (and family), for example, but "do a great job at work!" are not just as likely to lie, cheat and cover up job-related crimes? Just how naive are America's citizens?

I agree. Good post.