To all politicians:

Stop catering to people that constantly brake the law just to advance your agendas. Nobody else gets a free ride for breaking the law in this country. Illegals and money hoarders constantly do.

Illegal Immigrants - the scapegoat of dumb people everywhere since the Roman Empire.

Rubio will come to the rescue. Latinos respect him.

Well whats worse? The republicians refer to Alan greenspan for 30 years now. Alan greenspan said " self regulation does not work"

What? Thats right. Self regulation does not work.

Again? Self regulation does not work. GOP? pretty hard at hearing. GOP, "We need de regulation. "

The crazies are out. OH wait. Not crazy. Criminally insane.

27% of Nevada's population is Latino...two questions. How many are actually eligible to vote and how many would vote for a Republican no matter what his stand on immigration?

If 27% are Latino, then 73% aren't, wouldn't you say. So, do you pander to the minority or work for the majority?

Why didn't this article ask:

Will Obama Failure on Immigration Reform Cost Him Votes?

Sort of seem like MSNBC is far from "Fair and Balanced"

.

Illegals are everywhere. It would be difficult to hire a landscaping company or go to a restaurant that did not have illegals working for them. The GOP candidates should be talking about E-verify not building a fence. Retroactive E-verify for everyone no matter what color they are would send illegals packing for a low cost. If we stop the massive flow of illegal immigrants crossing the border looking for jobs then the border patrol could control the border.

Why didn't this article ask:

Will Obama Failure on Immigration Reform Cost Him Votes?

Sort of seem like MSNBC is far from "Fair and Balanced"

Lol

1) That headline is neither fair nor balanced.
2) That is Fox News' tag-line - they are the ones beholden to live up to that ludicrous claim.

If 27% are Latino, then 73% aren't, wouldn't you say. So, do you pander to the minority or work for the majority?

Should try to work for everyone, actually. But, on the subject of Latino voters - many already tend to vote Republican due to the religious vote. Latinos tend to be highly religious - and Churchs tend to be centers for pushing the GOP ticket. Only in recent years have the Democrats been pulling in Latino voters.

As for the how many are eligible to vote and not - it's a difficult spot for many. Some have family that may be illegal, or in the convoluted process of citizenship which can turn against them. Although many legal Latinos do NOT support illegal immigration whatsoever, they do not want immigration policies that will single them out (as legal citizens) along with the illegals.

hs321, facts and links please.

Go Alabama! Get them all out. Too expensive you say? Do some math. They cost us every day. A few examples:

They want to give them in-state tuition? OK, So an AMERICAN CITIZEN has to pay more for College because they live in another State? Are you Kidding me? And who knows if the "undocumented immigrant" has been. THEY ARE UNDOCUMENTED YOU MORONS!!!

OK, how much does it cost in tax dollars to send a child to school from kindergarten to 12th grade? A LOT!. Multiply that by the number of ILLEGAL Immigrants children who are in our school systems. That's a boatload of loot we could use somewhere else.

They want to give Illegals access to College scholarships and grants. Think about this people. They are all POOR AS FUNK!!! THEY WILL TAKE ALL THE ASSISTANCE!!! YOUR CHILD WHO IS A CITIZEN WILL QUALIFY FOR NOTHING!!!

OK, An ILLEGAL Man and Woman come to The US, they have a baby here. The Child is a US Citizen, because of him the woman gets Housing, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc etc. Meanwhile, the man lives with her in the free housing on my tax dollars. They eat food paid for by my tax dollars. He does the same job as me, for half the money... because I have to pay for insurance, housing, food.... I CANNOT compete with this guy, because I have to pay taxes so he can fuxxor me and live off my dime. It makes me wanna Holler.

If we didn't have to spend so much on ILLEGAL Immigration, we would have a LOT more money to spend so LEGAL Immigrants could get through faster and better!

We did not "invest in them"... They are Stealing OUR children's future!!!

Cygnus...I don't need to provide you any links. Anyone who paid attention to politics through the last campaign if fully aware of all the promises Obama made and didn't keep. That's status quo for all politicians, despite hamster trying to make it out that on Repubs do it. Do your own research.

On second thought, it was easy to find the information, even a liberal could do it.

http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/4701/long-post-complete-list-obama-statement-expiration-dates

It's a much longer list than I posted.

Read it and weep...

First of all, you are making your assumptions based on lies. You need to turn Rush off and look at the facts, not the propaganda.

Illegal Immigration was identified as a "win-win" wedge issue four years ago by the GOP in their polling. That is a fact.

They got their fingers burned when they tried demonize gay Americans. Hey, guess what? There are GAY REPUBLICANS! Who knew?

But "illegal immigrants" are the perfect victims. They have no voice, they can't vote and they are fearful of stepping forward and defending themselves. In other words, they are helpless. The perfect wedge issue, let's demonize illegal aliens. Yeah. Perfect.

Then came the lies, "They don't pay taxes, they are free-loaders." "They refuse to learn English." "They are stealing our jobs." yaddayaddayadda.

They do pay taxes, every time they buy something they pay sales tax. They pay payroll taxes as well which pay for benefits they will probably never receive.

English is one of the most difficult languages to master and when to they have time to attend classes since they work at low-paying jobs to support their families here and in Mexico?

They pay taxes every day. Oh they don't file with the IRS at the end of the year and they probably wouldn't have to because most of them are working for wages well below the poverty line, but they pay sales tax, payroll tax and so on.

Ok, so now we've exposed the lies. Here's the truth.

The GOP opposes Mexican immigration for two reasons, both despicable. #1 Latinos tend to vote Democrat. #2 Latinos tend to be Catholic. Yep, it's true, the good ol' GOP, dominated by Evangelical Protestants doesn't want thos Papists in this country.

Several Prominent GOP Leaders have accused the President of being soft on illegal immigration because they tend to vote Democratic if they ever get their citizenship. My, my, my. They said it. Not me.

The US Military is FULL of illegal immigrants working to earn their citizenship. That's a fact.

The Construction industry in Texas, Oklahoma and other Southwestern States depend on them. There isn't a roofing crew in Oklahoma that isn't almost totally Hispanic. If you go into a McDonald's in Oklahoma City there is a 75% chance you'll be greeted by a Hispanic worker behind the counter. They are doing the low-paying jobs no other American will take and are glad to have them.

Oh, and President Obama has deported more illegal aliens during his three years in office than GBII did at any time in his Presidency. That too, is a fact.

So yeah, the chickens (Los Pollos en Espanol) are coming home to roost amigos.

The GOP bet a lot on demonizing the Hispanic community and NOW they are going to pay for it big time.

Vaya Con Dios Repulicanos, Hasta la Vista, Amigos!

Hit the road Jack.

Obama/Biden 2012

I don't even need to look. The promises broken are a bitter taste in my throat. Reminders are all around me.

Everyone knows the teapublicans are racist, who would vote for them but rich white people anyways or poor whites wanna be rich people who are brainwashed into thinking success is measured by riches. These campaign managers know more about this than I do, which is why they advise there candidates running that its not necessary to pander to minorities, because they all know republicans dont support them and there quest to take over this country, that was constitutionally built for white christans and no one else.

Republicans are a dieing breed, more and more it is becoming obvious to the un-brainwashed public that they are here to support and prop up the rich americans and their corporations and nothing else.

If you dissagree you are part of this brainwashed segment of the public. I am sorry for you, you will soon be insignificant as well.

Power to the people!!

"If this keeps up soon won't be any REAL Americans left"(overheard at a meeting of the Mohawk Indian Immigration Service April 11, 1614

Skip, you're missing the underlying thing here... It's a classic exercise in shortage of resources... When there's plenty to go around, nobody minds the Jackals picking off the leftovers. When times are hard.... And Brother, times are HARD... anyways, when times are hard, the people have no leftovers to give, and they fight like animals when they're cornered. That's us man, that's just People. Glad to share in times of plenty, but also ready to circle the wagons and protect our Families when times are Hard. And right now, Times are Hard.

Of course, there's the whole land bridge thing there... Excess population has been flowing North through Central America into The US since LONG before it was The US. Traditionally the overpopulation in South/Central America has flowed north into North America, and the overpopulation of Africa has gone north into Europe. This has been going on for AT LEAST three thousand years.

Then you get into the whole population thing. But again....People are just animals with delusiond of grandeur.

If animals are in an environment where many of their offspring do not live to become adults, they respond by producing more offspring.

Humans do THE SAME THING! This breeds poor people. No two ways about it. When the people with the least resources breed the most offspring, well.... you figure it out.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

First of all, you are making your assumptions based on lies. You need to turn Rush off and look at the facts, not the propaganda.

Who's the liar? The "propaganda" you speak of has been promulgated for the past three decades by the news media and our presidents - past and present - who have supported business's use of low-paid foreign workers while the taxpayer picks up the tab, as Common Sense so clearly and expertly outlined in his posts above

I'm personally happy to see that the old pc buzzword "undocumented worker" has finally been replaced with "illegal immigrant" and that Americans are finally waking up - as in Alabama

Vios con dios, indeed....that is to say: Vios con Dios - illegals!

The problem with the current GOP strategy is that they went from demonizing illegal aliens to targeting anyone who looks vaguely Hispanic. The GOP was actually making inroads with the Hispanic vote based on values issues such as opposing gay marriage and encouraging abstinence-only sex ed. Then, they went and blew it by saying "If you've got brown skin, prove that you are a real American!" Even in their speeches they don't always make the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. You can go on the comment section of any story where the perpetrators have a Hispanic surname and immediately people start harping about all those 'illegal immigrants' causing all kinds of crime, even though the residence status of the criminals isn't mentioned. Hispanics are the largest growing minority group in the country. Making them all out to be the enemy is a poor political strategy for the GOP

Will GOP immigration rhetoric cost Latino votes?
Does a bear poop in the wood??

Skip -

Are you in favor then of illegal aliens taking jobs from American citizens because they will work for a lower wage?

A Candidate with a strong Anti Illegal message would win in a Landslide. It's kind of a compliment in a way that our great Nation hasn't produced such a candidate. Still, the Illegals really gotta go. Go through the rolls, anybody Illegally recieving taxpayer funded benefits, kick them out. They are contributing nothing. We have THE MOST GENEROUS LEGAL IMMIGRATION PROCESS IN THE WORLD.

We are one of only three countries in the World to allow HIV positive dirt poor Immigrants who we know will cost us about a million each, not including their Families who come with them.

Sure it's a hassle. What isn't that's worth having? And if we didn't have to spend so much on ILLEGAL Immigration, maybe we could devote our resources towards the LEGAL Immigrants who are trying to do the RIGHT Thing.

''Will GOP immigration rhetoric cost Latino votes''?
Does the GOP have total amnesia concerning Bush??

Zorroaca44 -

''Will GOP immigration rhetoric cost Latino votes''?
Does the GOP have total amnesia concerning Bush??

All the GOP would have to do is ask this question:

"Is Obama really the best thing for illegals? After all, his administration has deported a record amount of Mexican nationals back to their country."

And good on Obama for doing so.

Zorroaca...Bush pushed for "comprehensive immigration reform", code words for amnesty.

Either you are uninformed or you have amnesia.

The GOP only care about certain Latinos, period. The Cubans and the Puerto Ricans. The reason being is that Cubans gain protected immigration status if they can get to dry land in the states and Puerto Ricans, because they are from an US territory. So, you see these Latinos (Cubans/PRs) on a whole does not have any issue with illegal immigration, so the demonizing of all other Latinos is tolerated to some extent in those communities (this is not meant to say all Cuban/PRs are like this). You do have a few Latinos of Mexican decent in the Republican party and that is fine. I have a problem with the lazy media not making the distinction. If the GOP get the Cuban and Puerto Rican votes then they will take FL and that is why they press so hard there to drum of the votes from those two communities. I think if the GOP back off the rhetoric and actually act like compassionate human beings, they would garner more minority votes on religion alone. Black Americans, Mexicans and other South American immigrants are very religious and homophobic (prove me wrong on this and I will stand corrected), but they have seen racial (this is a point and not a card, so get over yourselves) and social injustice, so they know to separate their religious beliefs from their political beliefs and hitch their cart to who they think will treat them the fairest. No, the Democratic party has not always been nice to minorities and this need to change, but what the GOP doesn't get is that the DNC is nice enough (this could change as a different generation takes over). There is no where for some minorities to turn, so they stick with the lesser evil. I have always said that if the GOP was serious about widening their base, then they would actually try to understand why the Democrats get most of the minority votes and how they could bridge the gap. No matter how many brown faces the GOP marches out there, people will always see it as the Grand Old Party, because of the rhetoric. You might have think Michael Steele was an idiot, but the way he was ousted played out terrible for the GOP. Changing a little doesn't mean you compromise your values. If the GOP applied more common sense to their "marketing" approach, their life would be much easier. Mean spirited and hateful rhetoric will always be the sword that divides us.

Pyrrhic...are you a chump?...a sap?

If you add all the deportations Bush and Obama did together, it doesn't put a dent in the problem. It's superficial number of deportations...All smoke and mirrors to influence the totally gullible.

JtheJ, Politicians generally ignore the minority communities for the simple reason that minority communities traditionally have low voter turnout. THEY DON'T VOTE so politicians don't care what they think. I do not endorse this view, I merely perceive it.

Phyrrhic Victory, love your name. But seriously, adjust for Illegals like you do for inflation, he deported more because there ARE more. Like shooting fish in a Barrel. Go through the yellow pages under "landscaping", round up a ton in just a few short hours, makes good press.

He couldn't make the VFW annual dinner, but he made it to the La Raza breakfast just fine. La Raza's motto? "Para La Raza, Todo, Para Otros Nada"

For The Race ALL, For others NOTHING.

It's a little scary really.

Skip -

Are you in favor then of illegal aliens taking jobs from American citizens because they will work for a lower wage?

Bingo! That's the sixty four dollar question, isn't it?

I would guess the answer would be:

"Well, sure....since my (fill in the blank here) company switched to using illegal workers, my profits are way up! No pesky things like having to pay a decent wage or unemployment insurance or taxes to file - plus no health care insurance to worry about....when they get sick or injured, just send them to the emergency room and have Joe and Minnie Taxpayer cover it! Viva La Raza...Viva Los Illegals!"

I live in Alabama, and here are a few things to chew on:

1) The immigration laws are not being used against illegal immigrants --- they have either left or are largely invisible, protected by their employers. The people being pulled over and taken to jail are LEGAL Latino-looking American citizens.

2) The stste government is scrambling to replace the estimated $100-$120 million in taxes that they had been confiscating from illegals. It seems that illegals paid into Social Security, Medicare, federal income tax, and state and local property and sales taxes without ever being able to get refunds of collect social security. In fact, they contribute far more than they use in terms opf social services. Now Alabama will be forced to cut other programs (it looks like senior services at this point) to make up for the lose income from illegal immigrants.

3) Illegal immigrants use almost no emergency room or Medicaid services. First they are the healthiest demographic and don't need it. Secondly, they tend to stay away from places like ERs where there are cops asking for IDs. Those Latino people you see in ERs are legal --- if you spoke more than broken English, you might know that.

4) Very few illegal immigrants have children in school. Over 85% of illegals are unaccompanied adults --- not children. Local school boards would do exactly to illegal immigrant children what they did to the children of migrant workers in the 1950's and 1960's. The requirement that children be in school is easy to enforce and it destroyed the migrant worker population in this country. That's what led agri-business and meat packing and landscaping and other industries to seek illegal immigrants.

5) Alabama has currently lost about 1/3 of its sweet potato crop and 1/2 of its canning tomato crop because of labor shortages. The current estimates are that agricultural income will fall about 10-15% because of the exodus of farm workers.

6) In Tuscaloosa there have been numerous reports of non-Latino kids harrassing kids with names that sound Latino. School officials are hgaving a hard time with parents who actually condone this sort of thing. Kids are mean in the best of times and these are not the best of times. The school system has lost millions of dollars in federal and state education funds because 60-70 children of illegal immigrants left the schools, but also because thousands of legal Latinos are keeping their kids at home because of fear of the authorities.

7) I talked to one African-American Tuscaloosa County cop (who was unaccountably wearing full body armor (include leg and groin) and gloves with the troigger fingers removed to get his police car's oil changed. He said that they would not stop anyone without a valid reason --- and he carried a small hammer with him to "fix" working tail-lights. He didn't learn much from his parents' ciuvil rights efforts, did he?

8) The Obama administration has, as of August, deported 18 times more illegal immigrants than all eight years of Bush/Cheney.

9) Ronald Reagan was the person responsible for the flood of imigrants. In an effort to curry Latino voters for the GOP, he granted unconditional amnesty to 4 million illegal immigrants and conditional amnesty to almost 12 million others. This resulted in a flood of illegals who assmed that future Republican Presidents would do exactlky the same thing. Both Bushes considered it.

10) We have major illegal immigration problems with Irish immigrants (about 2 million illegals) and Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, and Caribbean immigrants (about 4 million more.) There are also about 3 million illegal African illegal immigrants in this country. So why are we only checking people who look Latino?

11) Alabama is also implementing the "READID" law that requires people to carry identity papers with them at all times, even inside their own homes. The READID national identity cards contain an RFID chip that continuously broadcasts your identify information. This will enable future police officers to monitor the occupants of all vehicles from a distance of 600 feet to 6 miles and stop people based on their lack of documents. Personally, I will degauss my RFID chip the day I get it (leaving the one in my passport in case I need it.) And until then I will break the law by not carring proof of citizenship with me at all times, public and private ---- fine $5,000 + 1 year and 1 day in jail per occurrance.

Welcome to the New Alabama. Proudly 50th in Education! Roll Tide!

hs321 - Lists like the one you made can be made for every President. The President is not in control of changing or passing legislation. That is controlled by the Congress.

Go Alabama! Allowing American Companies to employ ILLEGAL workers is NOT the way to compete with the low cost of Labor in other countries. Look where it has gotten us!

What we need is sensible Trade Policies.

For many years we have substituted easy credit for decent wages. Now we are where we are. I personally LIKED Tariffs, I liked when the Govt enacted trade policies to protect our markets... Like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY.

Sort of like Immigration. We should just enforce our laws. LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY.

Alil and hs321 -

The statement I made is a common Democrat talking point. I was suggesting that the GOP presidential candidate (whomever that might be) could use this Democratic talking point against Obama.

It's politics. Perhaps if you read my comment more clearly, you would have understood that.

Read my comment above. I am not in favor of amnisty or illegal aliens. After all, the phrase "illegal aliens" has the word ILLEGAL in it; meaning against the law.

"Perry has been forced to defend his signing of a law that allowed some illegal immigrants to get in-state college tuition... Perry's sudden drop in the polls was largely attributed to weak debate performances involving his support for the Texas law.....

Businessman Herman Cain, who has emerged as a frontrunner... "I don't apologize at all for wanting to protect the American citizens and to protect our agents on the border. No,"

Yea, supporting Americans instead of criminals seems to be really costly in support doesn't it? (sarcasm) AMERICANS will overwhelming support what is best for our nation and is not illegal immigration.

P.S.

Isn't it odd how liberals know that Hispanic AMERICANS will base their vote ON THE RACE of criminals entering the country instead of what is best for the country isn't it?

Of course they wouldn't call themselves racist for making that assumption about Hispanics, nor would they call Hispanics racist for supporting criminals because of their race... even though THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY BOTH ARE.

Chris-749391

I live in Alabama, and here are a few things to chew on:

3) Illegal immigrants use almost no emergency room or Medicaid services

when I see a statement like that - which is total, unadulterated bullsh*t - then it calls into question every other "fact" you might have presented and saves us having to wade through the rest of your novella

...not much substance to "chew on", I'm afraid, just unsubstantiated rumour and fear-mongering in your post

Phyrric, You and me are more alike than we are different.

Respect to You.

Democrats and the MSM,they are so sickiningly pathetic, You just gotta love em , bless their two faced, hypocritical, little hearts!, ,just the other day, when Obama and his media lap dogs were pandering to another audience, both were bragging about how Obama had deported more "illegals" than any other President, but now,while targeting the Latino vote,they suddenly say , evil Republican "immigration" policies are going to hurt the Republicans because they want to control our own borders in the first place !,par for the course though,think back, Republican, water boarding,"torture!",greatly expanded use of drones for political assassination by the Dems "O.K.! "Republicans making war in Iraq and Afghanistan because we were attacked "Bad !"Democrats adding a half dozen countries to that list,"Good !", Republican Gitmo,"Bad!" Democrat Gitmo,"Good"! Pelosi going to "drain the swamp", until she discovers the slimy creatures in the"swamp" are theirs, then a strange silence befalls the Dems and their propaganda pushers, and the big enchalada,(sticking to a Latino theme),the radicals, socialists ,communists, yes ,even Nazis,all supported by the Dems,ranting against the Evil Capitalist on Wall Street and demanding the Evil rich, (except, you know,the good ol' rich,such as, labor unions, Hollywood stars, rap musicians,Democratic politicians , George Soros and the like),hand over what they have earned to them, who have done nothing to deserve it, but,want it redistributed, just to be, "fair", while again, strangely enough, never mentioning Obama has taken more money from Wall Street than any other President ever! Yup,they are for and against everything, so You have no choice but to love em,....... sometime ,somewhere.

Midtown...that was exactly my point to Hamster, the first comment on this vine.

Dear Rob and Pyr,

Numero Uno Amigos, you need to work on your Spanish.

Numero Dos, the Mexicans wouldn't come if there were no jobs for them here. They are not the criminals. It is the gringo employers who are the real criminals. But sadly, many of those gringo employers are REPUBLICANS and BUSINESSMEN (and women) and we sure don't want to hold THEM accountable for the so-called FLOOD of illegals.

What's the NRA say? "Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people." Well, illegal aliens don't steal jobs from Americans, American businessmen looking for cheap labor steal jobs from Americans and that is a gold-plated fact. They also ship those jobs overseas and import cheap goods from China and flood the market with them which ALSO costs American's jobs.

You see, you're trying to blame the matches for the fire, when it is really the arsonist who set the fire who is to blame.

Cut off the jobs and you'll end the so-called stream of illegals.

But you don't want to do that do you? You want to victimize the victim. You want to parrot the lies you've been fed. It's so much easier to victimize the weak and powerless isn't it?

You have bought into the propaganda fed to you by the GOP through their distribution network, FOX NEWS and RUSH LIMBAUGH, just to name a few.

Sadly, you are probably good people, but you have been brainwashed and nothing short of electro-shock therapy will de-program you. I would feel sorry for you except that you are very dangerous because you don't fully understand the evil that you are supporting.

Welcome to Germany, 1933. "Gottverdammen Juden!" That has kind of a familiar ring to it doesn't it?

Obama/Biden 2012

Alil -

Thank you.

Chris -

The stste government is scrambling to replace the estimated $100-$120 million in taxes that they had been confiscating from illegals. It seems that illegals paid into Social Security, Medicare, federal income tax, and state and local property and sales taxes without ever being able to get refunds of collect social security.

Alabama has currently lost about 1/3 of its sweet potato crop and 1/2 of its canning tomato crop because of labor shortages. The current estimates are that agricultural income will fall about 10-15% because of the exodus of farm workers.

I would hope that American citizens would take up these jobs now vacated by illegals, and thereby begin to make up the resulting tax shortfall.

hs321,

Posting a link from 'The National Review' is akin to just cutting and pasting off of Glenn Beck's website.

Go away little turd troll.

It might cost the Republicans the illegal immigrant vote. Oh wait, I didn't know that illegals could vote? Or has that law been passed yet? I don't think legal immigrants have a problem with the immigration laws, only liberals and illegals.

@robopoopalot,

Show me the numbers from a single state where:

1) The use of emergency room services by illegal immigrants was even measurable. Just because a family is speaking Spanish does not make thel illegal. About 5 years ago the FTC required that a government-issued picture ID be produced at any medical point-of-service before the medical service is performed. The ONLY exception was that life-saving procedures would NEVER be delayed because of the lack of ID (and this only happened after a state legislator in California's Latino-looking son was hit by a car while jogging and died after waiting for hours to see if he was illegal.) Many places, such as Grady in Atlanta, have done extensive research on the subject and none has ever found significant use by illegal immigrants of emergency room or other medical services.

2) Illegal immigrants do not use Medicaid because they cannot sign up with them. E-verify is required and while it rejects many people unnecessarily, it also keeps illegals from ever signing up. Ditto for voting. Alabama requires FOUR ID's to register to vote. There are ZERO states that have ever reported illegal immigrants involved in Medicaid or voter fraud.

3) Illegal immigrants who do have children with them pay far more in taxes than they use in services. This money is confiscated and amounts to billions of dollars each year that are simply confiscated by federal, state, and local governments. Alabama is currently trying to figure out wehat services will be cut to make up for the $100-120 million in lost taxes from illegal immigrants. Localities, especially school systems, are wrestlying with having to lay off teachers because not only illegal, but legal immigrants have pulled their children out of class because of fear of harrassment.

BEFORE YOU ACCUSE ---- CHECK YOUR FACTS. GLEN BECK IS NOT A FACT, HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC. RUSH LIMBAUGH IS NOT A FACT, HE IS A DRUG ADDICT.

skip Nicholson, Oklahoma City

Dear Rob and Pyr,

Numero Uno Amigos, you need to work on your Spanish.

Numero Dos, the Mexicans wouldn't come if there were no jobs for them here. They are not the criminals. It is the gringo employers who are the real criminals. But sadly, many of those gringo employers are REPUBLICANS and BUSINESSMEN (and women) and we sure don't want to hold THEM accountable for the so-called FLOOD of illegals.

What's the NRA say? "Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people." Well, illegal aliens don't steal jobs from Americans, American businessmen looking for cheap labor steal jobs from Americans and that is a gold-plated fact. They also ship those jobs overseas and import cheap goods from China and flood the market with them which ALSO costs American's jobs.

I don't want to learn Spanish, and I don't need to learn Spanish - but that's the whole point, isn't it?

But I must correct you on several items:

1) It's not just "gringo" employers who abuse and make a dime off of illegal workers - for example, have you ever been inside the kitchen of a Chinese restaurant?

2) Please do not suggest that I listen to Rush Limbaugh ("Flush Rush" is my favorite bumper sticker) I personally can't even stand to listen to his voice; it makes me nauseous...

Apart from that, I TOTALLY AGREE with everything you have written above; we are not so far apart in our opinions apparently, but you seem to have a problem with enforcing the laws in the workplace - just as they are attempting to do in Alabama. Why is that?

Why, with so many students having a hard enough time as it is, do we need to import students from other countries ?

Same thing applies to any worker. I find it extremely difficult to believe that there is ANY job that a qualified US citizen would not be capable of doing.

Republicans = "illegal - legals, they all look the same".

Skip -

Enough with the generalizations and name calling please; it is inconsequential to this discussion and grows tiresome.

It is the gringo employers who are the real criminals. But sadly, many of those gringo employers are REPUBLICANS and BUSINESSMEN (and women) and we sure don't want to hold THEM accountable for the so-called FLOOD of illegals.

And therein lies the problem. Of couse businesses will want to hire cheap labor. That much is obvious. There are times when the government needs to step in and regulate, and this is one of them. Businesses who hire laborers to work in the US should not be allowed to hire illegals. End of story. I believe we are in agreement here.

You want to victimize the victim.

Who exactly is the victim? The illegal who chose to come here on his/her own accord, or the unemployed US citizen who would love to have that job held by said illegal?

There exists a path to legal citizenship. I encourage all foreign nationals who want to come to the US to take that path. Upon the grant of citizenship, the people of the United States welcome you with open arms.

@phyrric victory,

People who think that anyone will piuck up farm labor jobs is simply not knowledgeable of how the farm labor market works. The issue is that there is simply no labor where the farms are. When crops are picked, high school kids, and family members, and everyone handy is pressed into service and it is not enough by any measure.

And you can't just drive down some country road and stop at every farm and ask if they have work. Crops are picked as they ripen and they ripen at different times for different crops and different places. And there are periods when the only crops are in FL and CA truck farms. This is when most illegals go back home to be with their families.

In order to pick croips for a living, you have to be continuously on the road, moving from one farm to another, one crop to another, one region to another. You can't have kids with you because the local school boards will put you in jail if they are not in school. And seldom any more are even the most rudimentary accomodations provided for illegal crop pickers. They often live in holes dug into the sides of roads (under the pavement) and lined with cardeboard. Water and sanitary services are almost unheard of any more.

Labor contractors rule the farm labor worker and take typically 20% of the illegal immigrant's pay (or 10% of a legal worker.) They control the jobs and the fields and these are some pretty rough customers. Cross a farm labor contractor and you will likely just disappear.

If you want to read about how much of it still works, try reading "Grapes of Wrath." While this is about Depression Era migrant farmers, much of the same system remains in place.

There is simply no way that more than a handful of people will step into those jobs. Alabama is finding that out. This was nothing more than a political stunt that will cost the Alamaba taxpayer and especially Alabama school systems millions of dollars that they don't have.

I call BS on Chris... Two Word's - Obama's Aunt.

With a Federal Deportation Order on her, she was still able to get free housing, welfare, foodstamps, medical care, etc. So how well can they be checking applicants?

Crops? Before Illegals, we picked crops.

Taxes? Don't make me laugh. Wait until your kid turns seventeen and finds out they have a twelve year credit history and a past due mortgage. Do you have any idea what a nightmare that is to straighten out? It takes around two years and if your parents don't help you you're pretty muched effed. You haven't scratched the surface of the identity theft going on. They HURT us man, they hurt us all.

Chris-749391

@robopoopalot,

Show me the numbers from a single state

OK, just remember, you asked for it:

A report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) estimates that illegal immigration costs the state of Florida at least $4.3 billion a year, and projects that those costs will skyrocket to nearly $8 billion a year within a decade unless illegal immigration is controlled. Using Census and other data, FAIR estimates the current size of Florida's illegal immigrant population to be 630,000 larger than the combined populations of Tampa and St. Petersburg. According to the report, illegal immigration costs Floridians:

• More than $4 billion annually to provide public education to the children of illegal aliens, who now constitute about 8.7 percent of the state's K-12 students;
• Approximately $165 million a year in unreimbursed costs for health care;
• Approximately $155 million a year to incarcerate illegal aliens in county and state jails and prisons.

The current $4.3 billion price tag for these three program areas works out to an average of $575 per native-headed household in the state. About one-third of the state taxes paid by a family of four with a household income of $50,000 a year now goes toward providing these three basic services to illegal residents of Florida.

"Average Floridians are being asked to pay dearly for the failure of the federal government to control illegal immigration, and for a small number of business interests in the state that are addicted to low-wage illegal alien labor," commented Dan Stein, president of FAIR. "The $4.3 billion that is now being spent on illegal immigrants and their families means that those resources are not available to improve and upgrade Florida's woefully overcrowded schools and overburdened public hospitals. Nor are those funds available for urgent infrastructure repairs that are needed as a result of the succession of devastating hurricanes that have struck the state in the last several years.

Other recent reports have found similar burdensome costs for taxpayers in Arizona, California and Texas. "In reality, low-wage illegal alien labor is prohibitively expensive, when the costs of vital public services are factored into the equation," Stein noted. "Average Floridians are being forced to subsidize illegal immigration and the burden will increase rapidly unless federal, state and local governments begin working together to stem the massive influx."

Please note: these data are from circa 2005 - it can only be fair to assume that the numbers are much worse now, given the state of the economy and unchecked illegal immigration

"In 2008, Obama defeated Republican John McCain by more than a 2-1 margin among illegal Hispanics — 67 percent to 31 percent, and became president."

Ooohhh.. You should have done Cali just for the eye popping "WOW" of it.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

10.5 BILLION per year.... 7.7 Billion just on education.

Money NOT spent making Education for AMERICAN CITIZENS better.

Alil Common Sense, most of what you post is unadulterated lies. The problem isn's so much what you don't know, but what you think you know that just isn't true.

Chris, thank you for taking the time to thoroughly research this issue. I would very much appreciate it if you would post links to some of your sources. Pretty much every scientific study I have read on the matter supports one or more of the points you make. I do have one disagreement, but it is a matter of conjecture rather than provable fact. You wrote:

(Reagan's 'amnesty') resulted in a flood of illegals who assumed that future Republican Presidents would do exactly the same thing.

I believe that what brings people to the US has more to do with free market economics than any belief in what future US laws will be like. I very much doubt that people around the world are so well informed on US immigration rules when virtually every American I have ever met (on Newsvine or in real life) is completely in the dark as to what US immigration rules are.

What brings unauthorized people here is that our rules do not reflect our needs. From 1986 to 2006, American business hired roughly 500,000 low-skilled, foreign-born workers PER YEAR. The maximum number of low-skilled laborers allowed entry each year is 5,000. Not 500,000, or even half that or one tenth that, but a mere one percent.

American politicians (and fools) said "we don't need people without skills". They'd only be a drain on our society.

American businesses, realizing that the MOST VALUABLE skills are the ability to learn and the willingness to work hard, taught those workers what they needed to know to do a good job.The result was the longest peace time expansion of the American economy in history.

Since scapegoating unauthorized immigrants became the national excuse for all the nations ills, and cracking down became the bigot's sport of choice, we've seen millions of American jobs shipped overseas.

Scapegoating immigrants has cost millions of US citizens their jobs. It';s not just that crops are rotting in the fields. What's going to happen to the landowners on whose farms those crops once grew? The processing plants that used to process the food? The truckers that used to ship it? And the people that used to sell clothes to the people who picked the crops? The grocers can still sell food grown in Mexico and other countries, I suppose.

ROBOPOOPALOT,

the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a hate organization founded by Richard Tanton.

Richard Tanton has written openly about his admiration for the "genetic" policies of Nazi Germany and Adolph Hitler. Richard Tanton wants to end ALL immigration to save America for what he considers better racial stock.

http://www.moonhowlings.net/index.php/2008/09/03/john-tanton-believes-hilter-had-the-right-idea-but-wrong-approach/

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/09/19/fair-tanton-quotes/

http://www.adl.org/presrele/dirab_41/3680_41.asp

http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance/john-tanton-and-the-nativist-movement

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_Tanton

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2002/summer/the-puppeteer/john-tantons-network

http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2010/05/the-unfair-immigration-law-john-tanton-russell-pearce-and-our-pasts-future/

http://www.alternet.org/story/70489/

http://www.alternet.org/story/144414/far-right_anti-immigrant_groups_are_polluting_the_health_care_debate/

http://americanhumanity.wordpress.com/scary-quotes/

Nope, I don't have a problem with enforcing any laws that are on the books that don't violate the Federal Civil Rights laws.

Frankly, I have not looked at the new law in Alabama and can't comment on it.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the GOP made a conscious decision to demonize illegal immigrants from Mexico four years ago. Many of the new laws on the books in states like Oklahoma and others were written with the help of a right wing "think tank" with ties to various White Supremist (sp?) organizations. That's been well-reported here and in other states. But that's besides the point. What these laws do is victimize the victim and does not address the real criminals, the US Citizens who ignore FEDERAL LAW and hire illegal aliens, often paying them under the table, off the books, with cash.

To the GOP, these are not people, these are nothing more than a wedge issue and judging from the posts on this thread I'd say they've been quite successful.

The truth of the matter is somewhat different.

I repeat what I have already said. This is a wedge issue. A non-problem concocted by the GOP for political purposes. If you really want to address the issue prosecute the employers. Dry up the jobs and you'll dry up the so-called illegal immigration problem.

And yes, you are correct, you will find Hispanic workers in every kind of business here in the Southwest and elsewhere. Some are legal, some are not.

If you see this as a problem go to the source, the employer. Fine him/her, put them in jail, shut down their businesses and pretty soon you won't have a problem with people crossing the border. Period.

They won't come here if there are no jobs.

Have a good day.

Obama/Biden 2012

Chris -

All that tells me is that the farm labor market needs to be reformed. Do you think those conditions exist because owners realized that they can take advantage of illegals? If citizens are hired to replace illegals, do you think conditions would improve? What would the farm managers do if legal citizen laborers threatened unionization? Would the price of their crops go up to the point where they would no longer be competative?

Do you think we should stop illegal immigration? Or should we keep letting foreign nationals into the USA, amnesty granted upon arrival? Do you think we should do nothing then, and let the current situation play out as is? What is your solution?

These aren't rhetorical questions. I am genuinely asking you since you live there.

All undocumented people are not crooks. Look at the people walking in through the Arizona desert. Many are not aware of a legal avenue to acquire a work visa.

The politicians of both parties promise everything but the kitchen sink. And we all know what use all the talk really is.

We need immigration offices along the border to help people fill out forms applying for proper entry status. The offices can record a mailing address in Mexico for each to which messages about the processing of the person's work visa will be sent. The flow of sneak-ins needs to curtail.

Undocumented people already here need offices they can approach to fill out forms asking for work visas. We create a limbo status for people, and convert the limbo status to work visa status over time as U.S. Immigration decides.

Those undocumented people unwilling to come out of hiding to apply for limbo status papers should be asked to please exit the country voluntarily. People of all status deserve dignity.

commonsense....

ROBOPOOPALOT,

the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a hate organization founded by Richard Tanton.

You asked for facts and you got 'em, nocommonsense...

You do not apparently cannot dispute any of the facts and just try to discredit the group that published them as if the facts do not matter

"La Raza" is a racist organization...does that also bother you?

Well heck, why do anything at all, it makes such a good wedge issue for the politicians...&%$#@*&^&*

I talked to both Latinos that were going to vote Republican this cycle and they both said this wouldn't change a thing. I talked to all three of the Black voters who were planning on voting Republican and Herman and his wife are hanging in there but their 22 year old is wavering.

Robert Zavala, a Las Vegas resident who is a registered Republican, reminded the panel that not every Latino is in the country illegally. "What is the message from you guys to our Latino community?" he asked.

To them (the legal ones) and you, I would say thank you for becoming part of the American Dream. That includes respect for our laws and way of life we have struggled to create and maintain.

To ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS of any nationality, it is time for you to go back to your homeland! If you want to become part of the American Dream, submit your papers and get in line like the MILLIONS of people who are already waiting.

To Hispanics who are here LEGALLY, unless you weren't an Anchor Baby or from the lineage of Hispanics who lived here since the USA was born or part of the last Amnesty you had to go through HELL AND HIGH WATER to immigrate to this country. Why would you want to let upwards of 20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS, who are breaking many laws by being here, get a free pass for something you had to work so hard for?

Especially considering that the majority of these ILLEGALS would NOT qualify for any kind of long term VISA, meaning work, educational or resident!

WE, the citizens of the USA, were PROMISED the last Amnesty was the LAST AMNESTY! WE want that PROMISE kept! We are NOT fooled by trying to use a different name for the same old game...

My suggestion for all of those who want to keep these people in OUR country, there is a way! Just sponsor them! Of course, that means YOU will be responsible for them and make sure they aren't using our social services because you are required to provide them if they can't provide for themselves.

My suggestion for all of those who want to keep these people in OUR country, there is a way! Just sponsor them!

Roflmao, do you realize how long it takes to go through that process. We sponsored my brother in law 9 years ago, he has been approved but we are still waiting on the Visa.

Fix the broken quota system and come up with a workable plan to defend our borders.

Hampster is exactly right. Of course the teapublicans are going to jump up and down on this issue. It's a very hot topic with their base. The fact is they are going to state "build a fence" but they have no intention of stating how they are going to pay for it. Oh, thats right, they are going to pay for it with the savings realized by not having to provide services to illegals. I guess that fence is going to go up one panel every few years then because until it's 100% complete you aren't stopping anything. If you build better mouse traps the mice get smarter. Once the election is over so is their concern about illegals. The corporations and business owners love undocumented laborers. They pay them dirt wages, don't have to provide them anything, and never have to worry about them getting injured at work. Sounds like higher profits to me. After all higher profits are what corporations care about, not people and definitely not America.

Skip,

I agree whole-heartedly, as a conservative leaning independant, the immagration issue is one of many reasons that keep me away from being a reggistered republican. Who do you go after the drug user or the dealer? Well, same concept here, you go after the person hiring the illegal not the illegal himself. Fences and mass deportation are not possable with our current econimoc debacle. First thing first is we need to address the real problem which is businesses abusing cheap labor. If you enforce the laws for employers who hire illetgal workers, the number of illegal aliens would diminish dramatically when the work they came here for was no longer available. I do not fault illegal immagrants, I fault the employer exploiting them. That being said, niether the democrat nor the republican approach so far is the answer.

One more thing I have a serious problem with the statement "they do the work Americans don't want to do." With 9=% unemployment & constant extending of unemployment benefits, something doesn't seem right. I know that everyone on unemployment is not a lazy person looking for a handout. However, you can see how someone might perceive that as being true. Saying that illegal immagrants do the work Americans don't want to do (which hard manual labor) and an unemployment rate that is unreal for our country. That says to most people that the unemployed feel that jobs that typically have hired illegals is beneath them. It is very understandable to see how someone can come to that assumption, do you not agree?

Chris 749391

I don't know where to start on the load of BS that you posted above. What do you do just walk around all day and think up lies to post on this web. Or is it possible that the education system in Alabama truly failed you????

1) Just how many of those "legal residents" are being arrested and hauled off to jail there Einstein? I read a story from Marshall County that the only person that has been arrested under the new law, so far, was wanted for raping a child under 12 and by the way he was an illegal. Please tell us how many people are being arrested and where you get the numbers from???

As for the illegals being mostly gone from the state. That is also just a figment of your wild imagination because if you look at Alabama news about the illegals there are many stating that they are staying put for now. In fact in Huntsville the illegals and some legal supporters had a demonstration.

2) You said the state is "scrambling to replace the estimated $100-$120 million in taxes In fact, they contribute far more than they use in terms opf social services".

That statement alone shows how totally clueless you are about the costs that illegals cause to the tax payers of this country and to Alabama.

There are approx 180,000 illegals living in Alabama if they had 10,000 births in one year that would cost the tax payers approx $75 million dollars and that is just for delivery fees. When you tack on pre and post-natal care that the mother gets from Medicaid then you add millions more. Also if their are any problem pregnancies then again the tax dollars are wasted even faster.

Add another $75 million per year for the 10,000 or so kids of illegals, that are estimated to be in the Alabama school system, that were brought by their parents when they crossed the borders.

Ad another $18 million plus for the 1000 or more illegals sitting in Alabama prisons and jails and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

3) "Illegal immigrants use almost no emergency room or Medicaid services". This statement leads me to believe that you have your head stuck so far up your 4th point of contact that you will never be able to pull it out. If it wasn't such BS it would almost be funny. I have been to an Emergency Room in several different cities and have never once saw a cop asking for IDs unless it was for people that were shot or knifed and then the cops weren't looking at the color of the victim's skin.

As for not using medicaid, every illegal that pops out a kid is covered by medicaid or did you think that they were coming here and paying for those babies to be born? The illegals also know that they can get "free care" if they go to the emergency room because hospitals can't refuse service.

In Atlanta illegals are receiving millions of dollars in dialysis care because they can't pay their bills. In New York one illegal ran up over $1.5 million dollars in hospital bills and then when the hospital finally tracked down his family so they could take him home his kids that were also illegals threatened to sue the hospital because they didn't want to have to take care of him themselves.

4) " Very few illegal immigrants have children in school". The PEW for Hispanic Studies, LaRaza, and every other hug an illegal open borders group estimate that there are over 2 million illegals in our K-12 system across the U.S. That means that approx. $15 billion tax dollars per year is spent to educate kids that aren't supposed to be in this country in the first place.

5) "Alabama has currently lost about 1/3 of its sweet potato crop and 1/2 of its canning tomato crop because of labor shortages". Funny that none of the farmers in Alabama have advertised for help with the loss of the illegal worker. Also funny that none of the farmers filed for H2-A Visa workers that could have been here legally to pick. Another problem with your statement is that most of Tomato picking season in the state was over before the law went into effect. Also for the sweet potato farmers, maybe it is time to get the machines that do the harvesting for this crop. I suspect that most of the farms already have them nd use them but then if you mentioned that it would detract from your load of crap wouldn't it?

6) "The school system has lost millions of dollars in federal and state education funds because 60-70 children of illegal immigrants left the schools, but also because thousands of legal Latinos are keeping their kids at home because of fear of the authorities".

So genius, please tell us where these thousands of kids that are being held out by legal latinos are at. Why hasn't the media been reporting about them? Also please tell us why legal latinos are fearful of authorities?

Do you just babble on or do you actually go back and read how ridiculous your post is?

7) "I talked to one African-American Tuscaloosa County cop (who was unaccountably wearing full body armor (include leg and groin) and gloves with the troigger fingers removed to get his police car's oil changed. He said that they would not stop anyone without a valid reason --- and he carried a small hammer with him to "fix" working tail-lights".

I guess this police officer that you encountered had that hammer on a chain swinging in front of you so you could see it right? His statement is correct though if you really had the conversation with him as you claim. Do you think cops have nothing else to do except stop people and ask them for their papers? Do you think cops are going to be standing outside Walmart ready to grab the first hispanic just so they can say "hey I caught a brown person"?

8) "The Obama administration has, as of August, deported 18 times more illegal immigrants than all eight years of Bush/Cheney".

You need to go take a math class if you believe that figure. Obama has deported more illegals per year than Bush has but in his first year the Bush Administration deported over 116,000 and went up almost every year from there to over 369,000 in 2008. Needless to say wrong again!!!

9) "Ronald Reagan was the person responsible for the flood of imigrants. In an effort to curry Latino voters for the GOP, he granted unconditional amnesty to 4 million illegal immigrants and conditional amnesty to almost 12 million others".

I don't know where you get your numbers from but they are amazingly, stupidly high. The total that got Amnesty under the 1986 law that Reagan signed was approx 2.7 million so your claims of 4 mil and then another 11 million is laughably wrong.

Also you might go back and check your history because the Dems and especially Dead Ted Kennedy got up on the floor of the Senate and claimed that there would be no further need for immigration reform if Reagan would only sign the Bill. The problem is the sanctions and enforcement parts of the bill were defunded and ignored which in itself invited more illegals to come.

10) "We have major illegal immigration problems with Irish immigrants (about 2 million illegals) and Spanish, Portuguese, Greek, and Caribbean immigrants (about 4 million more.) There are also about 3 million illegal African illegal immigrants in this country. So why are we only checking people who look Latino?"

Again your numbers are ridiculously stupid. You claim there are over 2 million illegal Irish in the country? Where did you get that number? Even La Raza and the Pew don't go as far as to try to spread lies like these.

According to the Department of Homeland Security and their estimates there are approx 11 million illegals living in the U.S.The following is their breakdown

Mexico 6,650,000 or 62% of all illegals, El Salvador 530,000 or 5% of all illegals, Guatemala 480,000 or 4%, Honduras 320,000 or 3%, Ecuador 170,000 or 2%, and Brazil 150,000 or 1%. So just these 6 countries make up about 77% of the total illegals in the country. India, China, Korea, and the Phillipines make up another 7% of illegals. This leaves only approx 1,650,000 illegals from other countries including the ones you listed above.Oh by the way that is out of all the countries in the rest of the world. In other words the 1,650,000 illegals come from the other 186 countries that currently exist on this planet.

Please show where any law only states that it is only for hispanic illegals while you are trying to back up all the other BS you spread.

11) "Alabama is also implementing the "READID" law" bla bla bla. I think just reading that one alone proves how ignorant you really are. You need to go back and plant yourself on your couch but be careful how you sit down because you could break your neck due to the current position of your head.

How many of you were aware this has been going on since 1986?

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/napolitano-dhs-authorizing-illegal-aliens-work-us

There are approx 180,000 illegals living in Alabama if they had 10,000 births in one year that would cost the tax payers approx $75 million dollars and that is just for delivery fees. When you tack on pre and post-natal care that the mother gets from Medicaid then you add millions more. Also if their are any problem pregnancies then again the tax dollars are wasted even faster.

That is assuming all illegals get medicaid and that is not a true statement.

Are fat lazy Americans going to get off of their fat a$$es and spend 16 hours a day doing back breaking labor in the fields for sub minimum wage? Hell no! Stop whining about hard working individuals that are willing to do just that to make a decent life for their families.

Once again, Angelica the Troll for CIS, is using a different moniker...

ALILCommonSense = Angelica

Look at her vernacular and crazy random capitalization. It's the same person. I would almost bet my life. This person, whoever they are, only ever posts about immigration, it's always hateful, and it's always with the same format/language structure. Please, someone else catch this!!!

Matthew19685

Are fat lazy Americans going to get off of their fat a$$es and spend 16 hours a day doing back breaking labor in the fields for sub minimum wage? Hell no! Stop whining

We, the taxpayers, already subsidize the agriculture industry to the max - it is, after all, America's largest corporate welfare program.

How about: When are fat lazy farmers going to hire Americans and pay them a decent wage plus overtime for those 16 hour days?

TamL

Im not saying all do but most of them do or do you really think they are paying for the kids to be born on what all the libs and hug an illegal lovers claim to be lower than minimum wage. The fact is most of them do and they aren't paying for them.

By the way the reason that it took you so long to sponsor your relative is due to the fact that he probably came from a country that already has a high amount of illegals here. Am I right? If so you can blame the 9 years on all the illegals that decided they had the right to jump in front of him.

Also I said 10,000 having babies but that is a low estimate and by the way if that is the only thing you could come up with then I rest my case.

TamL

That is assuming all illegals get medicaid and that is not a true statement.

you are delusional, or perhaps mentally challenged....maybe both

the facts are that "one of the costs of large scale immigration (both legal and illegal) is the subsidies for medical care and other social services. Employers get cheap labor and the rest of us pick up the bill. In theory applicants for Medicaid are supposed to be American citizens. How well is this requirement enforced? Not well at all in turns out. A report from the Office of Inspector General Daniel R. Levinson of the Department of Health & Human Services has found that most states make little effort to prove citizenship of Medicaid benefits applicants"

-from http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002926.html

There is no such thing as a fat lazy farmer! Just poor ones that can't afford to pay a decent wage to themselves let alone anyone else. robbopaloobop what do you do for a living besides spew bull@!$%#!

@robbopaloobop you are delusional, or perhaps mentally challenged....maybe both

Report as violation of COH. Enjoy your holiday. I did not say that illegals were not getting some assistance, I stated that the poster assumes they all are and that is not a factual statement. Have a nice day.

I have personally taken an injured illegal to an emergency room. I assure he paid MORE than a citizen. Every emergency room I have ever seen has a sign stating that payment arrangements are to be arranged in advance, except in a life threatening situation.

I call BS on the BSers.

I read so many articles... and comments... that conflict.

1. How many illegal aliens are provided by legal (repeat legal) alien activists with information on how to vote?

2. How many people know one has to be an American citizen to vote (born here of citizens, or Naturalized)?

3. How many people know that American citizens who have a child born abroad insure their baby is also an American citizen? To obtain dual-citizenship has a time limitation.

4. How many people know that any baby born in the United States are the same citizenship as the parent(s). If the parent(s) are not U.S. citizens, neither is the baby. The baby "anchors" only to the parent, just like your and my baby does.

(Example: who pays when your kid breaks the neighbor's window? not your kid. you. Parent is responsible for child until adulthood.)

Therefore, are not parents of other countries who have a baby here are also not eligible for welfare based on the baby born here?

5. How many people know that to obtain Naturalization one must be able to speak... read and write ... English. Wouldn't that save an awful lot of governments' money and lower taxes (federal, state, county, townships) especially for buying Spanish traffic information? Or shouldn't we also include French, Chinese, Hebrew, Japanese,German, Italian?)

Historically, English is recognized the world over as a common language found everywhere. Shouldn't they take English where they came from?

6. Speaking of which, how many people here illegally from other countries do not bother to pay income taxes? How many purchase insurance for their cars? How many have legal drivers' licenses? For that matter, how many drivers' licenses are issued to non-citizens? Is it a requirement? Are Visas required? Passports?

I have read what seemed well-sourced articles... and articulate comments in these debates here... on both sides of the issue.

Wish I knew whom to believe.

ALLCommonSense - look a little deeper and you'll see times are hard for those on the bottom - raise your sights about 98 degrees and you'll see there's plenty for those on top.

Allowing Illegal Immigrants in is not the way to compete with the low cost of labor in other countries. Before medicare, medicaid or social security is cut by one penny they better stop giving ANY tax dollars to Illegal Immigrants. American tax dollars should benefit American Citizens, NOT FORIEGN NATIONALS!

OH, no did they lose yours? NOT, never had it anyway! The Latino vote generally go to the gimme party anyway. The exception is those that have been successful and see the damage being done by illegal immigration.

Why would Latinos want to stop illegal immigration? It certainly isn't the rhetoric that is spewed about persecution of my people, it is that they are the very people that exploit "the my people". Don't recall if the article said who Romney's Landscaper was but it would be a safe bet to say he was a Latino (legal) using "the my people" for is personal gain. Probably pays them a small fraction of what he charges for their labor, too.

People are screaming about jobs being exported but tolerate the influx of illegals taking a goodly portion of the jobs that are left. Go figure!

Good post. Isn't it great, how racism always trumps the loss or gain of money for the country? What a place we live in today.

I have Latin friends (Chile, Argentina) that went through a ton of bullpucky to become LEGAL, and they did the right things. They are just as pissed as me about ILLEGAL Immigration.

Think about it. Illegal Immigrants are like the International Equivalent of the guys who cut the line at the Movies.

Remember when we were teens? WE TOOK THOSE CARPPY JOBS!!! It taught us, we maybe screwed up and went to a party, maybe we got fired, there was always another to go to, plus... IT TAUGHT US!!! WE LEARNED FROM THAT!! Face it, it made us better "Grown-Ups". The Illegal Immigrantsn steal that from our kids, then our kids go out to work with no experience. It's SO SO BAD FOR US.

Alil, Shhhhh! Don't tell Liberals that Latinos are not all as racist as they paint them to be.

If Hispanic voters are going to vote in favor of criminals because of race then that is the most legitimate reason there is to prevent amnesty from ever happening, to remove "anchor babies", and to toughen legal immigration as well. If they have zero loyalty to the country and it's future they should never be allowed to vote in it's elections.

The illegal immigration problem got here in stages, not all at once. Both Democrats and Republicans played a part, though the GOP was far more active.

1) There has ALWAYS been a great deal of illegal Latino immigration in this country going back to its beginnings. We have this great myth about the cowboy "old West" but it never existed. Only about 15% of "cowboys" were white. Most were middle-caste Mexicans and a significant percentage were black (around 25%) freedmen or escaped slaves. Mostly the Latinos were summer workers, moving cattle during the summer and returning home in winter, leaving it for the whites and blacks to manage the cattle on winter pasture. They went freely across the border from the 1820's thru the 1920's when cowboying became mostly obsolete.

2) To do agricultural and meat-packing (among other jobs) this country developed a migrant worker culture. Itenerant farm worker families picked the crops, moving from one farm to another. This goes back to the mid-1700's. There simply was never enough farm work for people to stay in one spot year-round. They went where the crops were ripening. This really picked up in the 1920's with the advent of Florida and California and year-round truck farming. Before freezing was popular, meat-packing was also seasonal as were many other industries, such as landscaping. Migrants did all that work.

3) But by the 1950's and 1960's local school systems were pressring the migrant families to keep their kids in school or face jail time. This one thing alone killed migrant farming because it was so easy to enforce kids-in-school laws. This created an immediate need for more farm labor that was filled by illegals.

4) The situation was pretty static until Reagan started to dabble in immigration policy. The GOP thought that if they seemed Latino-friendly, they could make the same inroads with the larger Latino community that they had made with Florida Cubanos. What they didn't realize was that Latinos lby and large despise the Cubanos who make a great deal of the differences between "Castillian" Spanish and darker-skinned Latinos and those with Negro blood and those with Indian blood. High class Cubanos do not even speak the same language as regular Latinos, and especially those who come to this country to labor illegally and are mostly Indian and not of Spanish extraction.

5) Reagan gave unconditional amnesty to 4 million illegal immigrants and conditional amnesty to 11.8 million more. This burst open the floodgates to South and Central American illegal immigration because every one of them figured that if they came to this country, kept their nose clean, worked and paid taxes, that future GOP Presidents would repeat the process and they would become citizens and could then bring their families here. Both Bushes, for example, considered repeating what Reagan did, but decided that the Latino vote was a lost cause.

6) What farmers and others who depend on illegal immigrants wanted was a guest worker program. A Mexican worker would be allowed to work in this country for six months out of the year. He would have to have a clean criminal record and would never be allowed to apply for permanent immigration. He would pay taxes except Social Security and Medicare (which he would never be able to collect anyway) and would be able to file for refunds, etc, on a special tax form that essentially protracted his earnings over a year (giving him a higher tax rate.) State and local taxes would remain controlled by state and local governments. Guest workers would be exempt from minimum wage and certain wage and hour restrictions because of the nature of the work.

7) Now the GOP is claiming that it is unfair that they cannot carry 16 states without a substantial Latino vote. They should have tyhought abouyt that a whole lot sooner.

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

Ronald Reagan, Republican President, introuduced this Bill and it gained bi-partisan support. Basically, it provided a path to citizenship for Illegals already in the country, and excluded everyone else.

We tried Amnesty. IT FAILED MISERABLY!!!

And guest worker programs are a scam. Your average Farm Laborer doesn't have a few grand to give the Feds. A big company who wants to import cheap LEGAL labor? They pay the fee to the feds, then use that to "inspire and motivate" their workers. Seriously, think about it, you don't perform, I don't renew your guest worker Visa.

Guest Worker = BAD IDEA!!!!

Republicans = "illegals - legals, they all look the same".

Liberal Latino here, third generation American of Mexican & Spanish decent. My grandparents came here legally and worked hard to support their families, sometimes working two or more jobs and paying taxes. From them and my parents I was taught, "If you want something, you work for it. Nothing comes for free".

I live in Texas. This state is now overrun with illegals abusing the system and having babies. When I registered my daughter for school this past summer, I swear I was the only American parent in the room. Businesses in my area have undocumented workers who don't/won't even attempt to speak English to the customers. I know plenty of American families that are suffering and are not granted temporary assistance because the illegals are sucking it dry. There are waiting lists to get low income housing because the illegals have taken it all. And by the way, anyone thinking of voting for Rick Perry should recognize that most of the illegals came here on his watch and he has done nothing about it!

To mi raza, I say this: I know many of you work hard, and for slave wages, doing jobs most Americans wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. But that doesn't give you the right to avoid paying taxes, and it should not qualify you for government assistance. If you came here without making it legal, you have already proven yourself to be a criminal. We have enough American criminals here, we don't need you adding to our problems. Make it legal. Pay taxes like Americans do. Do not come here expecting handouts, pity, or exceptions to our laws. Don't think because you have a baby on American soil that makes it ok. You can take your children back to Mexico when you're deported and when the child is of age he or she may return to America and become a productive citizen.

We used to be a proud people. We were born of people with integrity. It shames me that you have forgotten. And in the process, you have set the stereotype of the entire Hispanic culture back beyond the civil rights era.

I have said it before and I will say it again- most legal Latino/Hispanic people don't want illegals here- just like the rest of the country. Legal citizens pay taxes, they vote, they take part in the communities & churches, they are interested in the American Dream. Illegals are here for one reason- to take what they can. But they take the very jobs & resources that Americans need, and that chaps the rear ends of all those that paid their dues and came here the right way!

Amen. ^^

More rhetoric... ironically.

Leiya123: Yes, we need to uphold the "Law of the Land." I found it disconcerning when people were demonstrating outside of President Obama's headquarters in Chicago against his deportation of illegal immigrants. Truly, I don't understand this.

Mary-1324335. The reason you see people demonstrating against the deportation of illegal aliens is because it serves too many peoples overt and covert agendas politically.

By the way, please note that they are not immigrants, they are ILLEGAL ALIENS, who are for wont of and lack of need for a more complex analogy are simply trespassers who think they have a God given right to walk across out border with Mexico; trespassers who because the constituency they are joining - other illegal aliens and their supporters - who have managed by hook or by crook to get themselves ensconced in America and a certain proportion of their children are actually now legal citizens, have come to represent a voting block that the Democrats want to pander to and keep in their corner. Regardless of whether or not it harms America - which their presence is - and irrespective of the fact they are ILLEGAL - and in violation of the law.

America needs immigrants - lots of them - but what we need are legal immigrants of the type that actually are serious about become Americans - rather than simply showing up so they can milk the cash cow which they view America to be dry.

We need legal immigrants who actually want to learn to speak English - not people who are more interested in holding onto the languages and cultures of the hell holes of Latin America they ran away from to "seek a better life" - at the expense of real American citizens.

All the waves of legal immigrants of the past have come here of course because they wanted a better life; economic opportunity as well as freedom to think as they wished and live their lives as they choose - that is a given, but the defining difference between them and today's "undocumented workers" (Don't you just love the warm and fuzzy, touchy feeley euphemisms the spin masters who want to obfuscate the truth come up with when trying to obscure the fact they are talking about illegal aliens?); the difference is that past immigrants actually sincerely wanted to become Americans - not Mexicans living in America, planning to go "Home" someday and sending billions of dollars worth of money "Home".

Past waves of immigrants took pride in knowing that if they lived honorable lives they would ultimately become citizens and to that end assimilated into the culture; learned to speak English at least to a passable, function degree and made sure their children were even more well versed in both speaking English as well as understanding what America is all about. They did not intractably and almost proudly say to you, "No speak English, sorry." and then smile sheepishly like it was impossible for them to be other than what they are - too lazy to make the effort to learn and/or care to learn.

Any real immigrant who truly appreciates what America is about and wants to keep America strong and the magnet it still is and always has been to the Best of the Best of all cultures and countries throughout the world, is not going to be upset by talk of sealing our borders and making the government and the administration running it truly care about America's integrity and survival. They will be all for sealing the borders and solving the illegal alien issue - which in my opinion makes all the terrorists threats we can face pale in comparison.

Unfortunately, the Obama administration - though, yes, they have deported a lot of people - much to the dismay probably of said administration because they couldn't figure out a way to stop it - the Obama administration is infinitely more interested in pandering to and soliticiting the support of those Hispanic elements that would happily see America's integrity undermined by more illegal aliens slipping in, than it is in actually standing up for America and defending its integrity.

Time for change we can count on in 2012; time for a new President and support in the Senate to actually get things done that will help, rather than hamstring America as the current team is doing its damnedest to do.

I guess you don't believe in upholding the 'Law of the Land' regarding immigration, but it is apparent that you believe in bashing people that do.

I guess you don't believe in being a human being and not a hate-mongering waste of flesh? And if you wish to point out his bashing people you might not want to be a hypocrite and do it yourself. Just a thought mind you.

P.S. Question normally end with a question mark too. :)

Jeff-1592116 I guess you don't believe in upholding the 'Law of the Land' regarding immigration, but it is apparent that you believe in bashing people that do. I guess you don't believe in being a human being and not a hate-mongering waste of flesh? And if you wish to point out his bashing people you might not want to be a hypocrite and do it yourself.

POT, KETTLE

Stoops2Conquer I appreciate your taking the time to write what you did. This semi-liberal Democrat agrees with you and I feel you said it very well. I truly believe that unless you live in a border state it's almost impossible to know how ones quality of life changes when you're overrun by illegals.

We need legal immigrants who actually want to learn to speak English

This is probably one of the most annoying things about illegal immigration. This and the annoying mind set that THEY somehow own Texas (the state I live in) and that WE are actually the illegals. And they are serious!

We need legal immigrants who actually want to learn to speak English - not people who are more interested in holding onto the languages and cultures of the hell holes of Latin America they ran away from to "seek a better life" - at the expense of real American citizens.

I have a story about how we had to move from a paid for home in retirement and take on a mortgage because our new "neighbors" wanted to live in the filth they grew up in. That and their pit bulls "rushing" the fence made our life hell. I tried to talk to the man about it...but it ended up in a screaming match but he couldn't speak English

The part of your post that I have to take exception to is your blaming Obama. What did George H W, Clinton or George W do? NADA....see I'm learning their language :)

I just read an article that stated illegal immigration is and will continue to slow down as Mexico's population is aging AND they now have our factory jobs for the young who haven't already walked across. I guess that is good news.

Anyway I thought your post was very well thought out and written....thanks.

Thank you Rico very much for you words.

Bush did make an attempt to do something about immigration but unfortunately lacked the political capital to effect a real change - how it would have looked of course is anybody's guess. And Clinton - well - he's hardly worth talking about.

He was the man who gutted the C. I. A. of at least 30 percent of its foreign operatives prior ot 9/11; was roundly despised by the military: refused to save even one itty bitty Yes for the go ahead to kill bin Laden which possibly might have averted 9/11; but rather, apparently saved most of his "yeses" to give to Monica in the Oval office , "Yes, Yes, YES>>>>>!" You get the tawdry picture - as did the rest of the world and anyone with a semblance of propriety. So, to say I didn't expect much out of him, is an understatement.

Obama, however, is so patently unconcerned about even appearing serious on this issue, lest it loose him Hispanic votes, that he deserves a special award, the "I will scrub your back if you scrub mine and help elect me - again" Award.

Only someone who was in "See no evil; hear no evil; speak no evil." mode could not look at the illegal alien problem and not realize America has never faced a more dangerous threat to its existence as a nation to its national character; the national character that helped make it separate and distinct from all the rest, than it does now - with literally 12 to 20 million "foreign agents" in place and more flooding in every day doing their best to covertly pretend they are residents.

There is a wonderful saying - I came upon in a grade B movie starring Kurt Russell - many years ago.

Kurt's father was a moonshiner; sitting in jail at the time of the exchange; Kurt asked his dad, "WHY do you bother to make booze and risk jail like this? People can buy it in the store." His father replied, "Son, in this world there are only two levels to everything: the best and all the rest."

America, at the risk of (and I am sure) being called a chauvinistic pig by the ultra liberal element out there - is THE BEST - which leaves the rest to continue being envious and doing everything can to undermine us from within and without.

However, I predict that in due course, our good friends like the French, will find much to their dismay that they are again knashing their Gaulic teeth and saying, "Damn those Americans, we thought they were finally going to sink into oblivion so our august opinion of ourselves will not ever again be brought into question by us having to wonder why they are so succesful and powerful and we are not!"

LOL - you have to laugh at these things Rico! America will survive and America will reinvent itself and in the end come out infinitely more powerful and influential than it ever has been - because America's "Secret to Success" is one that our detractors are frankly incapable, constitutionally to either understand or truly destroy.

As Napoleon Hill, in his classic book Think and Grow Rich said: "In every adversity, there is the seed of an eqivalent or greater benefit." Just wait till world sees the ultimate benefit that comes from the current adversities - hold on to your hat Rico!

IF we are not going to deport everyone who has entered illegally, well then, at least we need to make them really care.

I live in a section of the country that is heavily Hispanic. I have a roommate who is from the Dominican Republic - she is one of the strongest, finest individualsI know.

Sadly, however, most who live on the upper West Side of NYC do not share her desire to actually become an American citizen - as she has, but rather, think it is their God given right to be here - but not really, truly become part of America.

The other day I met - at a bus stop the in Bronx a young man - maybe 23 or so - from the Dom Rep - he had been here three years; works in a restaurant . THREE YEARS - keep that in mind - he could not even under the most basic, elementary, simple English. WHY? Because he is LAZY. Do not bother to say "Oh, you have no idea, how hard, .... they work.." BULL... I have five sons I never had.

Three from Bangladsh - two from The Gambia - a hell hole in West Africa where if you have a mind and speak the truth oddly enough you disappear, learn the amazing pleasures of being tortured or simply dead. Each of them is working their asses off learning English; working a job - surving.

NONE of them, think it is their God Given Right to not bother - when coming to America to learn to speak English - yet this "boy" - which he most undoubtedly will remain all of his stupid, lazy life (and he was nice look, personable and could go, if he got off his lazy ass and learned English any where in our society he wished - thinks he doesn't need to learn to speak the language of the country he has come to because his own basically worthless country,has no opportunities for him. The operative word is LAZY, STUPID and doomed to mediocrity as he so well deserves to be.

We need to:

1. Make it so that those whom we allow to remain who came here illegally MUST, regardless of age, learn to speak English.

To hell with the fact tha they may be old, it will stimulate their minds - give them something to actually do. If you came here, have enjoyed the benefits of being here in America then grow up, realize that there is a price to pay and no free ride.

2. IF you don't care to learn English - fine; go back "home"; good bye. We really, really don't need you here.

3. Then, you also must make them not only - God forbid - learn to speak English but also learn to read and write it and pass a test to prove they can. Otherwise - good bye. Put a little "fear of God" in them; they snuck in with absolutely no regard for our law or our country except to come here to milk the cash cow dry - sooner or later they had to realize the piper would demand his due.

4. They must renounce categorically, publicly and under oath all previous allegiances to any foreign country you came from. Currently we have 20 million people living in the U. S. who don't think of it as home but rather Mexico - another God forsaken, corrupt as the day is long hell hole as "home", and proud of it.

Unfortunately, we have as a President a man who doesn't give a good God damn about America - as much as he does getting re-elected and who will never, ever in a million years seek to truly help those he wishes to give "amnesty" to, whom he hopes will vote for his party, by making them actually work for their citizenship and actually care about becoming Americans.

Obama is selling out America for the sake of getting re-elected; if that doesn't tell you why he should be kicked out of office - well, then, as Napoleon Hill said in Think and Grow Rich - "There is nothing that can be done about a lack of intelligence."

I think 100 years from now Obama will be regarded as one of the worse presidents in U.S. history.This is his one and only term.By the way I vote by a mans merits not party affiliation.

Glad Obama is pandering to his base by using class warfare since he cannot run on his record. Nothing like a president pointing to groups of US citizens and telling his gullible base that those people are the cause of all of their problems. The people he is pointing out as the cause of all the worlds problems also work in his administration like Tim Geithner and the Chairman of the Fed which he renominated Benanke.They are also on his jobs advisary board in the form of the head of GE, Jeff Immelt. Talk about a presidential sized hypocrite. And the gullible Obama base can't even see it.

The GOP defend the indefensible. They lie and lie. I think they really believe that its us and them. They protect the 1% and the 99% are the other.

Latinos? To them there nothing but the other to be used and abused. They blame the latinos for everything. The fraud, It must be the bad latino guy. The latinos are the best fall guys.

Not only that. iTs worse. The know that fraud was committed and the corporate elites and banksters got away with it. They blamed someone else though it was clearly the banks that pushed fraudlent mortgage based securities.

Then they when the whole scheme fell apart the crook Henry paulson hoodwinked the monkeys in the congress and got the 700 billion for the banksters to continue the fraud. Then they gave them a secret 1.2 trillion cash injection and then they used tax payers money to pay the tax payer back and claim they didnt need the money and then they got more money. Another couple of trillion that you can hear about on congress hearings. How many trillion?

WE have the banking secrecy act to hide that fact. Then we get this speculation of unregulated derivate markets between the banks.

Then we find out the SEC is not policing the banks, its helping them commit fraud.

The SEC destroyed 18000 documents into investigations into criminal activity. Even destroyed Madoofs files.

I can keep going on with this. At least another 20 lines why the whole system is broken. The republicans think its just business as normal.

The only way we can understand the logic is know they are criminally insane.

johny, in case your just coming out of a coma, a little history, during the campaign Obama flew back to Washington to vote in favor of the bank bailout. During the first months of his administration, Obama approved the second installment of TARP. The architects of TARP includes Tim Geithener, who works in the Obama administration, but came from one of the banks which helped cause the meltdown and took TARP money. And the SEC destroying files was done under Obama's watch as president.

When you pulling the handle for Obama in 2012 , remember, his second biggest campaign contributor was Goldmann Sachs.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cid=N00009638

Tom:

ALL they have done is attack Pres Obama and say no to everything that will both help the economy and deal with the deficit

COME ON MAN! Try to read the news and not just liberal blogs. Obama has done NOTHING to deal with deficit.

- Obama has added over $3 trillion to the debt in 33 months

- During the debt limit negoations, Obamas ONLY demand was in INCREASE the debt limit by $4 trillion so he wouldn't have to deal with this during the campain.

- Obama's projected to add $7 trillion our debt in his first. He will have added more Debt than almost all administrations COMBINED in the history of our country.

- Obama's buget submitted to Congress increased spending so much, it was rejected 97-0. EVERY Democrat voted against it.

- Obama appointed a "Blue Ribbon Debt Commission" then totally ignored every recommendation becuase it required hard choices

Supporting amnesty is going to cost DEMOCRATS votes in the election. I'm a lifelong labor Democrat and I won't vote for a candidate that supports amnesty. You should note that there are plenty like me--else Democrats would have passed amnesty when they had a supermajority in Congress and a Republican President who pushed amnesty during Bush's last 2 years, or when they held a supermajority and the presidency in Obama's first 2. For that matter, the Dream Act failed last fall because 5 Democratic congresscritters didn't turn up for the vote. Guess they didn't want to risk their seats in Congress. Amnesty will not play well in blue collar states with high unemployment, which is why Obama didn't mention amnesty there when he did his "jobs creation" speech in Detroit a few weeks ago.

Ali, in Florida I saw an electrical crew working a construction site that was mostly illegals. I know because ICE called ahead to let the site boss know that they were going to check for green cards the next day. The following day, when ICE did the "surprise check" most of the crew was out. The next day, everyone was back a work. Electrician was formally a well paying union job. Not anymore at that site.

"Perry has been forced to defend his signing of a law that allowed some illegal immigrants to get in-state college tuition... Perry's sudden drop in the polls was largely attributed to weak debate performances involving his support for the Texas law.....

Businessman Herman Cain, who has emerged as a frontrunner... "I don't apologize at all for wanting to protect the American citizens and to protect our agents on the border. No,"

Yea, supporting Americans instead of criminals seems to be really costly in support doesn't it? (sarcasm)

Nice try MSNBC, but any American politician not supporting LEGAL American citizens doesn't have a chance now that Obama has the bought the country to its knees.

I don't understand why so many of y'all say liberals want the illegals. In my case (and in many others) that's just NOT true.

John:

The last 3 GOP presidents signed TWENTY deficit riddled budgets that added over $11T to the debt AND saddle Obama with a $1.3T deficit even before he took office. THAT is driving current deficits to a large extent.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

What's more they did it DELIBERATEY!! Research "stave the beast"

http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/06/tax-cuts-republicans-starve-the-beast-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

Hardball: Bruce Bartlett desroys every Republican fiscal talking point in 5 minutes.

( a conservative who worked for reagan and bush 43 in the treasury dept!)

WHY???

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/04/07/paul-ryan-and-the-republican-effort-to-finally-starve-the-beast/?utm_source=allactivity&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=20110408

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/10/27/126318/gop-privatize-socialsecurity/

In short, the GOP deliberately created this debt crisis over 30 years thru tax cuts for the wealthy and overspending so they could privatize all the entitlements. They also walked away from $4T in budget cuts so they could protect those tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate loopholes during the debt ceiling circus. They endangered national security and the future economy of the United States merely to make the wealthy and corporate elite RICHER!

USE YOUR HEAD! TURN OFF FOX AND RUSH AND READ ON YOUR OWN!! ( but dont read any of those conservative blogs cuz the GOP hasnt been conservative since BEFORE raygun!)

PS: you are invited to refudiate any of that with credible documentation!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/28/999759/-Hardball:-Bruce-Bartlett-desroys-every-Republican-fiscal-talking-point-in-5-minutes-

Transcript from Hardball! He's a conservative republican!!

Hey Tom I've heard the current economy was done on purpose also. Thanks for the links. Gonna look at them when I have more time.

rico, I had not heard of that about the economy. What I do know is that the bush administration knew a collapse was coming and said or did nothing until the last minute! Bush even lied to us thruout 2007 about the state of the economy!!

John...for many Hispanics race is a big #1 and loyalty to America is a very distant place down the line.

“California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn’t like it should leave. They should go back to Europe.” — Mario Obledo, co-founder and President of MALDEF, 1968 to 1973; President of the League of United Latin American Citizens 1983-85, California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare 1975-82, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

Aztlan Nation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9uH4XgOmI

Stop catering to people that constantly brake the law just to advance your agendas.

The Republicans... :)

Jeff:

So your position is... Anyone can do anything, as long as they vote the right way?

hs, according to the last census most Latinos consider themselves white.

Vic - If that were true, it matters how?

Legal immigrants are just as against illegal immigration as anyone else. I would like to see immigration reform and tougher security on the border, but neither side really wants that. They need illegal immigration, they aren't going to cut off the supply of cheap labor for their cronies.

I would like to see ICE working with families that have mixed immigration status so they don't have to be separated.

The GOP will lose the Latino vote because the GOP is Anti-American in everything they do. They aren't for the people, they are for themselves.

Pjam, It matters first in response to hs comment that for "Latinos race is the most important thing". Second it matters when we hear about the demographics of the country changing. They may be changing, but not as some have proclaimed and finally it partially answers the question being posed about Latinos future political alignments.

Why do you automatically associate illegals with latinos?.....Probably because your a typical republican......Latinos don't need to take another look at themselves.....80% of all latinos in the US won't vote for the GOP anyway! Why you might ask....its not rocket science!....Republicans do NOT represent ANY interests concerning latinos....and never will. The only interests republicans have for latinos is making sure they have one to keep their house clean for them,or picking their vegetables and fruit for them because they don't want to do it....or they think they're better than everyone else. It's funny how 20 years ago The great RICH white Republicans who run this country....didn't see the rise of the Hispanic race coming.....Now its too late!....... Now thery're scrambling to close the borders. Too Late! It's time for the rise of the hispanic race, and time to take our rightful place in the US .....like it or not..... move over!.....BE afraid Republicans......Be very afraid!

Raider...thank you for making my point crystal clear.

''Will GOP immigration rhetoric cost Latino votes''? I am aware that there is a hugh ILLEGAL immigration issue in this country, but not any immigration issue. Why can't MSNBC call it what it is?

The issue that will cost the GOP is their "jobs" promise from 2010.

Actually Raider the Republicans were duped along with everyone else, when Sen Ted Kennedy stood in the Senate in 1964 and in proposing his new wide open immigration law, said "I promise every one of you that in passing this law, it will not change the demographics of the United States."

LOL Janet....at least that explains why Texas is one corrupt state.

Because they flooded the state with white americans? LOL rico!

No Raider because:

The American response was to flood Texas with white Americans, many of whom were prople running away from prisons or uncollected debts, as well as supporters of slavery.

And Raider these very people passed their dubious morals on to their children.

vaylen: I agree with your comment; I don't understand how anyone can support illegal immigration. Additionally, Congress needs to come up with viable solutions to solve this problem rather than pandering to their respective bases.

I do believe that we need to grant a path to citizenship to some responsible illegal immigrants, such as those who have served in our armed forces. To search out and deport all illegal immigrants seems to be fruitless and expensive. We need to get to the root of the problem to halt illegal immigration, such as U.S. employers of illegal immigration.

Your statement, "I find it sad that people can't voice support for immigration AND voice a concern of ILLEGAL immigration without being labeld as xenophobes," succintly expresses my view.

Mary..."...we need to grant a path to citizenship to some responsible illegal immigrants..."

The 1986 amnesty was Ted Kennedy's idea, and strictly enforcing existing immigration laws from then forward, promised by the Simpson-Mazzoli Act, was supposed to be part of the deal. So Reagan (who later said it was the biggest mistake he made) and Congress (Dems and Repubs alike) went along and gave amnesty to almost 3 million illegal aliens, sending the message, that if you can steal in and stay long enough, the Americans will reward your illegal acts by giving you amnesty. How strong was that message? We now have 4 times as many, or more, wanting amnesty.

So, let's give these 12 million illegals amnesty and in another 20-25 years it will be 48 million.

hs321: Your last statement is correct if we do nothing to curb illegal immigration. I concede that they may very well occur. If, and it is a big IF, Congress would seriously take up measure to halt illegal immigration, granting amnesty to some would cut our losses.

Again, your point is well taken.

Mary, we already HAVE ways for "some" to legalize--eventually, with time, effort, and money. Illegal aliens with US citizen relatives (spouse, children, parents, siblings) can be sponsored by them. Illegal alien children can return to their home countries and apply for legal foreign student visas before age 18 1/2. The military already has the authority to admit illegal aliens IF IT WANTS TO and they're able to legalize through serving.

I am not defending illegal immigration but:

The immigration laws are cumbersome why wait years when one can sneak in and have the same benefit with a little work at it.

I liken the immigration laws to the gun laws, why go through all the BS to purchase a firearm legally, when one can can get the same piece from other (legal) sources without the hassles.

Fedup...answer to both your questions: Because you are an honorable, law-abiding citizen. Otherwise not.

Legal immigration does not work fast enough to keep the Democrat voting base from disappearing... that is why they support illegals.

Do you seriously support the fact that a latino farm worker has just about a zero chance of immigrating legally? THAT is the current state of immigration law. Many good Americans are in favor of reforming the unrealistic quota system to bring health and vitality to this issue. As well as some careful and controlled amnesty with criteria including community and military service. AS WELL as better border control. But the RHETORIC calls this viewpoint disrespectful of the law... It is as American as can be to try to change BAD laws... and typical of many that they don't even know what the law is.

It takes about 3 to 5000 dollars to immigrate legally. From Mexico, might take 10 years even with a close relative as a citizen. You want legal immigration? With background checks and sensible quotas? That would require immigration reform. Make it possible and check yourselves... some of you are perputuating bigoted lies and being manipulated.

But, when laws were enacted on the method of entering this country, most immigrants obeyed them.

Frank, we've never had this many immigrants and illegal aliens from ONE ETHNIC GROUP. We've never had this many immigrants and illegal aliens, period. And we've never had this many from a group, Mexicans, that had irredentist aims in the U.S. Moreover, you should note that most illegal aliens and many legal immigrants are unskilled and uneducated in an economy where skills and education are needed to move out of poverty. Our immigrant ancestors were unskilled and uneducated, but back then, you could earn a decent living, move into the middle class--and didn't have "free" healthcare, "free" educations, and even welfare, as today's illegal aliens do.

I don't know how it looks right now, but consider the fact that most are family oriented Catholics with a great work ethic. Its inevitable, there future is in the Republican tent.

"Perry has been forced to defend his signing of a law that allowed some illegal immigrants to get in-state college tuition... Perry's sudden drop in the polls was largely attributed to weak debate performances involving his support for the Texas law.....

Businessman Herman Cain, who has emerged as a frontrunner... "I don't apologize at all for wanting to protect the American citizens and to protect our agents on the border. No,"

Yea, supporting Americans instead of criminals seems to be really costly in support doesn't it? (sarcasm) AMERICANS will overwhelmingly support what is best for our nation and is not illegal immigration.

P.S.

Isn't it odd how liberals know that Hispanic AMERICANS will base their vote ON THE RACE of criminals entering the country instead of what is best for the country?

Of course they wouldn't call themselves racist for making that assumption about Hispanics, nor would they call Hispanics racist for supporting criminals because of their race... even though THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY BOTH ARE.

" Many are criminals and work for the drug cartels, and this has been proven.."

Proven by who? Do you have a link?

All illegals are criminals they crossed into this country at a non designated crossing point $5,000.00 fine 6 months in jail deportation. they work under the table and pay no taxes tax evation,the get a check using ssi# that is not theirs identity fraud.their children born here get welfare,they lie and say they have no husband to get more welfare benefits,we tax paying citizens pay this we pay for their children's education,we pay millions for Spanish interpreter,some states afford them instate college tuition that their own citizens can not get.the states that give these criminals sanctuary like mexifornia are bankrupt.we citizens are tired of pressing "1" for English and paying billions yes billions of our tax dollars for these criminals while they take millions of jobs from Americans that "do" want these jobs it has gone way past absurd for to long ant eh majority of Americans are sick of it their is no rational argument for this to continue.this country has become a "bizzaro"world that gives illegal foreign invader criminals "special" rights that it's won citizens don't have Obama if you want to stimulate the economy and put millions of Americans back to work the most obvious thing to do first is to send these illegal criminals packing

Cuba is separated from the US by mile of open water. Cuba is also a communist country, though it is starting to push for free markets. We treat Cuba in a method as a holdover from the cold war.

The illegals here love to wave the Mexican flag.It is up to the Mexican people to fix their own government,country problems instead of running across our boarder.the Mexican government encourages this 70% of Mexico's G.N.P. is money sent back to Mexico from the illegals here raping our country.I.E.the U.S.A is the Mexican economy.they need to get off their lazy asses,grow some balls and fight to fix their own country!We need to worry about our own first.Giving them asylum is insane.look what happened to Dade county Florida when that happened[the Cubans]" you could not work live or thrive their unless you knew Spanish[government quote],the murder drug and crime problem went historically through the roof it totally destroyed dade county the police were out gunned and lost control,it became south Cuba instead of America just like California is becoming north Mexico...

you sound like AL sharpton...ridiculous

YESSSS!!!!

"Perry has been forced to defend his signing of a law that allowed some illegal immigrants to get in-state college tuition... Perry's sudden drop in the polls was largely attributed to weak debate performances involving his support for the Texas law.....

Businessman Herman Cain, who has emerged as a frontrunner... "I don't apologize at all for wanting to protect the American citizens and to protect our agents on the border. No,"

Did you notice how the article questions "Hispanic support" while totally ignoring the fact that supporting CRIMINALS is what has caused Perry to drop and supporting AMERICANS is what has driven Cain's rise?

How about an article entitled "Will Current Administration's Complete Apathy On Illegal Immigration Cost Obama The White House?"

I don't think you would be able to see an article like that, because their aren't any facts to back it up....oh I forgot the GOP doesn't need facts, they just make it up. Considering Obama has deported more illegals in almost 3 years the GWB did in 8, I don't really consider that apathy. Can you provide some evidence?

I don't think you would be able to see an article like that, because their aren't any facts to back it up....oh I forgot the GOP doesn't need facts, they just make it up. Considering Obama has deported more illegals in almost 3 years the GWB did in 8, I don't really consider that apathy. Can you provide some evidence?

He deported more, simply because there were more to deport...unless you believe the problem has been getting better, not worse. But then again, trying to explain things this simple become quite the challenge when the receiving end of the communication has the typical reasoning skills of most democrats ....i.e., four year olds.

It doesn't change the FACT, that his administration hasn't changed or created any policies to actually fix the real problem. And unless you live under a rock (I try not to make assumptions about most democrats) you'll notice the FACT that states like Arizona and Alabama have instituted their own policies...for what reason do you say?....because Obama's actually doing his job at the fed level regarding illegal immigration....?

Um.....no. Sorry if those FACTS bother you.

Do you really believe someone can vote who is not a citizen?

Ever heard of fake ID's or intimidation at the polls like the Black Panthers did for Obama?

dont need a fake i.d. just show em a D.L. handed out like candy in some states. and poof.......

Illegals are not going to vote, most of them try to stay in the background and not draw attention to themselves. You guys just can't believe Obama was elected by the majority of Americans because he was the best choice for this country.

bill s: I do agree with your first statement regarding our being a dual language country, with all the associated inefficiencies. Additionally, as I stated in an earlier post, language is a unfier for a country's citizens.

JK: Why is wanting to stop illegal immigration hateful?

Like calling parts of the voting public, "The Enemy". Whoops, that was Obama. The guy elected to represent all of the people of the US, not just the groups he chooses to.

Mary, stop kidding yourself. No fence so far has stopped, nor will stop, illegal immigration. They've dug under, gone over, punched through, found other ways.

The REAL purpose of this fence and the talk about is to serve as a monument to the rampant jingoism and xenophobia that exists in the Republican base. The intended message is "I hate foreigners as much as you do".

I want to hear how they plan to build this monstrosity after they eliminate all tax revenue. Maybe we're to assume the standard answer that for some reason "the private sector" would be motivated to do this.

21st: I don't recall stating that I was in favor of a fence. I said that it was debatable due to cost and effectiveness, as you state.

Or Obama is soft on Illegal Immigration. ANOTHER LIE

Common Man: I guess that is why so many people were demonstrating outside of President Obama's election headquartersin Chicago against his many deportations of illegal immigrants.

Facts are facts Mary. Obama has deported more illegal immigrants in 3 years than Bush II did in 8. Facts are facts Mary, Hispanics are not happy with Obama either; however, the truth doesn't garner votes for Republicans from their base. You know, the hateful Christians who love to persecute others because of their ethnic background. :)

Does anyone outside the Faux News rantaverse really think there is such a thing as an "illegal immigrant vote"? Sure, voter fraud does exist, but all indications are that it is a negligible, insignificant part of the vote.

Jeff: I was responding to the previous post regarding President Obama wanting to secure the Hispanic vote. I know that facts are facts; President Obama has deported more illegal immigrants than President Bush. That's why I posted my comment about people demonstrating outside President Obama's headquarters.

Jeff: I was responding to the previous post regarding President Obama wanting to secure the Hispanic vote.

I know, it's a fallacy and I addressed it. Hispanics aren't happy with Obama, but Republicans need to blame him still. Go figure.

jeff - "Hispanics aren't happy with Obama"

jeff, Common Man said Obama had the illegal immigrant vote, why do you assume that means Hispanics? Do you actually posses the basic common sense that you don't want our law enforcement officers to be able to exercise?

Jeff-1592116

Facts are facts Mary. Obama has deported more illegal immigrants in 3 years than Bush II did in 8.

and lying is lying. Obama is counting those turned back at the border as deportations just as he counted government raises as jobs created. Without the fabrications, Obama is doing nothing.

Jeff, that hurts. LOL. Wow, deeply insightful. LOL.

Jeff, that hurts. LOL. Wow, deeply insightful. LOL.

Can't find facts to back up your BS I see. :)

It makes sense to enforce immigration laws and to have a secure border. It is sick to joke about frying people on an electrified barb wire fence. I don't see why anyone would find joy in something like that. I do not want a person like that running this country.

Jeff, I'll keep it simple for you because I'm not going to bother if you decide not to do your own research. Google the school board study for LA to see how much the illegal immigrant situation is costing them, if you want the truth. But, it seems to those that will not even try to find the truth that ignorance is bliss.

Jeff....the email about $300 billion was shown false a long time ago. No one current on the subject even brings it up.

However, to imply that illegal aliens do not cost U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars each year is patently absurd.

Check out these:

"In Florida alone, more than $3.5 billion a year is spent on health care and criminal justice for illegal immigrants. Given this, I think it is time for Florida to follow Arizona’s lead."

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/07/republicans-florida-spends-billions-on-illegal-immigrants.html

Illegals get $4.2 Billion using fraudulent Tax Claims…

The Internal Revenue Service allowed undocumented workers to collect $4.2 billion in refundable tax credits last year, a new audit says, almost quadruple the sum five years ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/undocumented-workers-got-billions-from-irs-in-tax-credits-audit-finds/2011/03/23/gIQAhtaKvJ_blog.html?hpid=z3

Besides, money isn't the long term issue. Its far more important than that.

“California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn’t like it should leave. They should go back to Europe.” — Mario Obledo, co-founder and President of MALDEF, 1968 to 1973; President of the League of United Latin American Citizens 1983-85, California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare 1975-82, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9uH4XgOmI

Legal or illegal Mexicans tend to be far better workers than brainwashed Americans.

Jeff, I have lived it. You haven't!!! Go back to your IPOD!

takenaka, LOL. you are way out there. Pharmaceutical grade meds?

takenaka......if that was true Mexico would be the most built up, wonderful country to live in......guess what.....it's not.....so you are full of spit...........

Jeff, I'll keep it simple for you because I'm not going to bother if you decide not to do your own research. Google the school board study for LA to see how much the illegal immigrant situation is costing them, if you want the truth. But, it seems to those that will not even try to find the truth that ignorance is bliss.

Still can't find facts I see. :) You google it. Post your proof. Oh, do make sure you check Snopes and Factcheck beforehand too.

Here are the links. :)

http://www.snopes.com/

http://www.factcheck.org/

Jeff....the email about $300 billion was shown false a long time ago. No one current on the subject even brings it up.

Of course you're wrong... :D

I bring it up now because a few weeks on a similar discussion it was brought up as evidence of how Illegal Immigration is hurting America. As long as that email is still making the rounds, which it is, I will bring it up.

Check out these:

"In Florida alone, more than $3.5 billion a year is spent on health care and criminal justice for illegal immigrants. Given this, I think it is time for Florida to follow Arizona’s lead."

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/07/republicans-florida-spends-billions-on-illegal-immigrants.html

LOL yeah, check this out!. BAHAHAHAHA....

Workman misquotes immigration report

As Florida lawmakers prepare to introduce their own version of Arizona's strict immigration law, Republican state Rep. Ritch Workman has been championing the cause by painting the state's illegal immigrant population as the scourge of fiscal conservatism, business owners and taxpayers.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/jun/30/ritch-workman/workman-misquotes-immigration-report/

Like I said you better check your facts before posting. The others are BS too.

Have a nice day. :)

Jeff...we could go back and forth all day posting links supporting our positions about the cost of illegals.

However, you didn't address the last part of my comment. That is the long term issue.

Jeff...we could go back and forth all day posting links supporting our positions about the cost of illegals.

Poor baby, has his nose rubbed in his crap he posts and can't stand it. :(

I'z sorry witto fellow. :(

I address it, proved you wrong and made you look bad. Enjoy. :)

Jeff...we could go back and forth all day posting links supporting our positions about the cost of illegals.

I don't think you are getting it, if you take a position because of a set of facts that prove to not be true and you continue to hold your position then you have a closed mind and there is no point in further discussion. Not sure why you would even be on the vine. You can just as easily talk to yourself in the mirror.

I don't think you are getting it,

Oh I get it alright. You and others will take whatever swill is fed to you as long as it reenforces your stereotypical hatred of Hispanics.

Jeff I wasn't talking to you. If you look at what I quoted, it wasn't directed toward you.

Jeff....you did not address this part of my post:

Besides, money isn't the long term issue. Its far more important than that.

“California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn’t like it should leave. They should go back to Europe.” — Mario Obledo, co-founder and President of MALDEF, 1968 to 1973; President of the League of United Latin American Citizens 1983-85, California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare 1975-82, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM9uH4XgOmI

Jeff...also, you could go up to comment 1.57 and get a bunch of links to support your position. You might even ask commonsense for all of his. He and I have debated this subject on the vine for long time. He can fill an entire page with links to articles supporting his position and I can do the same.

Many of both of our links are from questionable sources.

One thing I've learned from debating this subject is that few are open minded and have any clue what is going to happen to this country in the long run. You can get an idea by reading comment 5.8. And you can substitute Republican in the comment for white, black, Asian, whatever.