"Democrats called the law efforts at "voter suppression" against minorities"

Don't you love how Democrats cite racial statistics and use racism to pander to minorities when there absolutely is a stronger correlation between income and possessing a drivers license than race.

The reality is the law doesn't "suppress" anyone, if you lack the responsibility to obtain a state I.D. then you have "suppressed" yourself and probably aren't responsible enough to participate in electing officials whose actions affect everyone as you will almost certainly vote for whoever promises you the most "free" handouts rather than voting for what is best for the future of the state/nation.

Absolutely right on !!!!

There is no voter suppression here.

Perhaps you missed this story, Steve and pjam:

The biggest opponent of the state's new voter ID law just may be an 84-year-old woman who stands less than 5 feet tall, has lived in the same house nearly her entire life and has served on her Village Board since 1996.

Ruthelle Frank doesn't have a driver's license, doesn't have a birth certificate and hasn't been able to get a state identification card, which means that she could be out of luck the next time she tries to vote.

...Frank takes the right to vote very seriously.

She said she started voting in 1948 and has rarely missed a chance to cast a ballot since.

These new rules do prevent eligible people from voting - one of our most basic rights as citizens. How can any American support unwarranted removal of these rights?

A better law would have been to require ALL voters to secure a NEW voter photo ID registration card to replace their old card. There is plenty of time for the elections boards to issue new cards. Just notify all registered voters that they must come in to secure a new FREE photo registration card. If the minorities are already registered, they had to have some type of ID (whether photo or not) to originally register. Since NO birth certificate is a photo ID, then how can anyone prove that the person carrying that birth certificate is really the person listed on that birth certificate.....which means that all passports should be questioned too, since a birth certificate is the ID used for securing a passport. With the cases of stolen birth certificates (such as the major fiasco Puerto Ricans recently had to go through to get replacement birth certificates because of stolen ones) that exist, can we really count on a birth certificate being a valid form of ID? Is there really any valid form of ID other than DNA and finger/footprint impressions on birth certificates (which older people would not have on theirs)?

Does everyone see the problem with these laws now?

Well you know most the time the tea party thugs are calling me names for my stands on other issues. On this one I guess the liberals get to call me names. I see absolutely no reason why someone shouldn't have to provide either a state identification card, drivers license or birth certificate along with their registration card.

I was the victim of identity theft and the hoops I had to go through to regain my drivers license and birth certificate took me over a year but that's what I had to do to again be legal in America. It's been 10 years now and sometimes that little situation still rears it's ugly head. Some things I've never been able to straighten out. And I've worked hard at it.

But you want to claim that people who bother to register to vote don't have a birth certificate or some form of state I.D.? I find that HIGHLY improbable. On both sides, GOP and Dem I think voter fraud is HIGHLY likely without requiring something to validate that the person with the voter registration card matches the actual person. I've wondered all my life why it was not a requirement and I support it being a requirement. I think to say that any significant number of any race not having any other I.D. except for a voter registration card is pure POPPYCOCK.

So, it's harder for non-whites 2 obtain an ID? If only minorities were required 2 produce an ID then you might have something. Evidently requiring all citizens 2 provide their identifaction is racism.

If they are going to enforce photo ID, then they need to put in place a mechanism that ensure that all that is eligable to vote shall be able to get the neccesry I.D , and thus have the neccessery ID before the election without unneccessry stumbling blocks. Right now, that is not the case.

Not until the government of SC can gauranty that all that is eligable will ahve their ID before election day, then we cannot afford to deny any American the right to vote. Given SC dubious history, I am glad the justice department step in. It is clear that the republicans are upto no good.

@pjam09

The reality is the law doesn't "suppress" anyone, if you lack the responsibility to obtain a state I.D. then you have "suppressed" yourself

absolutely false. in many states (if not all), there are costs associated with obtaining photo ID's, and even your birth certificate at times. this is specially a problem for the elderly because they are less likely to have a driver's license for example. there is also a significant number of college students on the same boat.

the supreme court declared poll taxes, that is, charging people to be able to vote, unconstitutional. this was a practice used in many states to impede the poor, and coincidentally minorities, from voting.

thus, if a state is going to require photo ID for voting, it ought to, in the same statute, provide free identification to that end for all citizens.

but in fact, what republicans have done, is make it more difficult for citizens to obtain such photo identifications. in wisconsin for example, mr. walker has closed several DMV offices. coincidentally, those offices were all in heavily democratic districts.

so you tell me whether those so called 'voter fraud' legislations by republicans were in honest good faith...

This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

People are knuckleheads. You know we knew how to prove someone was legitimate before photo IDs existed, right? Or do you think the United States is 30 years old?

Forget just minorities, photo IDs are NOT necessary for any voter. Unless you are a LIAR about wanting smaller government. But know, sorry, the new FAUX CONSERVATIVES actually want a big government that just does everything they want. That's why they are called members of the Douche bag Party. Still waiting for the real, actually thinking, conservatives, to come back to the Republicans.

Why aren't photos on voter registration cards to begin with? I know it would make it harder to register because you would have to go to the county clerks office to register but that isn't a huge burden. No drivers license? Fine every state has a photo ID available at the BMV/DMV. But let's be honest this is just a cloaked operation for removing many from the voting rolls.

For those less-government types, I think it is ironic that they now advocate to have an photo ID for ourselves for no reason other than to vote. This is a modern version of a poll tax that is intended to suppress likely Democratic voters, period. Newsflash: It costs money to get an ID just to vote. If you don't have a car, travel internationally, or are in the military you don't have a photo ID on your own. That doesn't mean they aren't worthy just because you assume they lack responsibility. God, I swear people in this country are becoming so hateful and want to set us backward.

If you think that is a priority, then a national policy should be instituted with an education program that reaches these communities and enough time to implement it. You don't expedite this law state by state giving only a short time and no public education campaigns during a major election year. That smells of voter disenfranchisement, not trying to prevent voter fraud. If it costs to obtain, it is a poll tax.

If voter fraud is such a problem in this country (hint: it's not!), then where is the demand for printed ballots from voting machines, hmmm? That is oddly, not part of the laws. Meanwhile voter machine tampering is cause for much more suspicion and goes unchanged. Partisan state Secretary of State's overseeing elections is a much bigger problem but that is also not part of the "effort" to ensure we have clean elections.

Seriously, we are looking to disenfranchise up to a third of one group and several others, resulting in hundreds of thousands of voters being denied the right to vote in several states just to prevent the 3 small cases of voter fraud that have ever been proven? Geez, next thing you know we'll be having TSA and their wonderful invasive x-ray machines at the polls. Liberty and Justice for All, America!

Considering the abysmal voter turnout this great country has, it is amazing to me that the effort is to suppress rather than encourage more voting. But then again, Republicans lose during high voter turnout, so the less people who vote the better for them. True Patriots!

When I vote I have to show an ID. What the H*** is the problem??? Prove you are a legal citizen and eligible to vote. Non-citizens have no rights to vote so why are they raising cane? The elderly lady that doesn't have anything, is crazy. If she is a legal citizen then she should have had a state ID YEARS ago. How does she do anything without an id? I don't buy that crap and I don't care what any bleeding heart says. If you are not a US Citizen don't vote. Pisses me off. The politicians want their votes any way they can get them.

Zaruski, envirogal, remember this? From the article:

Under the law, anyone who does not have a photo identification must obtain a new voter registration card that includes a photo.

Voter Registration cards are free-- no poll tax there. A state ID in South Carolina costs $5, so a minimal expense there too. But, as the quote above makes abundantly clear, a state ID is not required. And don't give me any BS about how it will make these people have to "jump through more hoops" or some equally inane garbage-- you have to have a voter registration card to vote. Getting a new one, with a photo of your kisser on it, would be a nearly identical process (and again, free). As near as I can tell, the only people who would be disenfranchised here are the people ineligible to vote in the first place: illegal immigrants-- coincidentally, a demographic that leans heavily democrat (oh gee, I wonder why).

I think what is being missed here is the concern over illegals voting, and because many are Latino the Dems pander to them by promising something for nothing. For most people this is an insignificant problem blown out of proportion.

And for all the libs on here who are stating, adamantly, that there is no problem with voter fraud, can you please explain to me then, why, back in 2000 and 2004, all of you were shrieking that Bush, et al. committed voter fraud to win the election? Hypocrisy much? You betcha!

Steve3200687,

If you can't see the problem with requiring anyone to RE-REGISTER to vote, after they are already registered, then you are blind in one eye, can't see out of the other, and self deceiving to boot! Perhaps it is because you fear that these minorities may vote the opposite way YOU wish them to vote, or maybe you prefer they not be allowed to vote period!

pjam,

The reality is the law doesn't "suppress" anyone, if you lack the responsibility to obtain a state I.D. then you have "suppressed" yourself and probably aren't responsible enough to participate in electing officials whose actions affect everyone as you will almost certainly vote for whoever promises you the most "free" handouts rather than voting for what is best for the future of the state/nation.

Your statement says it all... says you support voter suppression and you get to set the criteria and minimum threshold. Your statement infers that you are purposely targeting Democrat voters. Thanks for the clarity.

No more needs said.

WMG-21

And for all the libs on here who are stating, adamantly, that there is no problem with voter fraud, can you please explain to me then, why, back in 2000 and 2004, all of you were shrieking that Bush, et al. committed voter fraud to win the election? Hypocrisy much? You betcha!

Wow, we been had! The fact that Republicans threw out valid ballots in 2000 and 2004 validates voter fraud which the Republicans are going to save us from in 2012!!!! What?

My "hypocrisy" trumps your logic any day... LOL.

The supreme court has already ruled on this issue and upheld states rights to require ID, so what gives the justice dept any right to stop it here?

It's a non issue, and all of this tripe about you should have to show a "state issued photo ID" at the voting booth is nonsense. IF you are registered, you had to show an ID to register and prove citizenship. If you didn't then your state is messing up. Once registered then the voter should have a voter registration card to show at the poll. We can always spend tax dollars to make that voter registration card a photo bearing card if the right wingers are going to continue to try and disenfranchise. This garbage that the righties like to toss about regarding voter fraud is in itself fraud. Just look at the statistics from an independent site.

We have the worst of the worst here in Kansas with Chris Kobach who wrote most of the AZ immigration nonsense that the courts will strike down eventually. It's about ideology and locking out voters who these creeps think will vote for a Democrat. Try and not buy into this effort to disenfranchise people who pay taxes and have earned the right to vote regardless of the status of their "state issued photo id".

Maybe we should make people who make over 200k a year show a photo id and a tax return before we let them vote to make sure they are paying taxes and not cheating. Yeah, that's it. Let's do that.

To Bad It costs a lot of money to get an ID is some states!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a fact it costs upwards of $250 to get one in some cases!! I mean if your birth certificate is not perfect you have to apply for one and pay for that!! Than you have to pay a notary to stamp it and then you have to waste an entire day at the DMV, losing a full work day, because they are not open on weekends or evenings!!! So, GOP MEMBERS, please explain to us poor folk how we are suppose to get an ID!!!

On it's face it seems reasonable to ask people to show a photo ID to vote. Because you have a photo ID. Probably a driver's license, and a checking account and probably some credit cards. Thing is lots of people don't. A shocking number of people can't get a checking account. And don't have the capital to get a car and don't need a drivers license. Probably don't have their birth certificate either. Asking these people, who don't have a lot of money, to spend money to be able to vote is wrong and it is unconstitutional.

Even if you don't have a lot of money, in this country you still get to vote. Period!

Hard for those of us more fortunate to realize what others have to deal with everyday.

Bush's own voter fraud investigation showed voter fraud is virtually non-exsistent.

@Honest in Montana

On it's face it seems reasonable to ask people to show a photo ID to vote. Because you have a photo ID. Probably a driver's license, and a checking account and probably some credit cards. Thing is lots of people don't. A shocking number of people can't get a checking account. And don't have the capital to get a car and don't need a drivers license. Probably don't have their birth certificate either. Asking these people, who don't have a lot of money, to spend money to be able to vote is wrong and it is unconstitutional.

The reason that folks find themselves in the predicament that you put forth is due to the Democratic party's and Mr. Obama's policies.

You conservatives who support this voter ID legislation are right. People should prove who they are when they vote. And they do. Every polling place has election judges who verify signatures when citizens present themselves to vote .... and it has NEVER been shown that this system does not work.

But the conservatives want to reinforce the system anyway and in the process spend millions of dollars on identification cards and administrative red tape (so much for smaller government). All this to solve a NONEXISTENT PROBLEM.

We all agree that people should have a driver's license in order to drive. Should we step up enforcement by requiring a lot of traffic stops (at the cost of a lot of inconvenience and millions of dollars spent for enforcement)? Maybe that is how we should spend our money, since there is absolutely no doubt that there are more unlicensed drivers than there are citizens committing voter fraud.

Why is it conservatives say they want smaller government, but propose so much silly government expansion legislation?

Need an Id to drive, Need An Id to cash a check, Need an ID to buy smokes, Need an ID to buy alcohol, Need an ID to get a loan. Need an ID to get guvment money. This justice dept. is the most racist and political in history bar none!!!

Many of the states have clearly passed or proposed legislation clearly designed to limit voting by traditional progressive voter groups. For example, why would a gun permit be a reasonable form of identification, but not a university identification card?

the comment wasn't that great, flash ...... didn't need it once, let alone twice.

read em again, flash8, you are wrong. Not that you'd ever realize that. You are only insulted if you want to identify yourself in my post. Which is only something you are doing to yourself.

Note, however, if you care to read, you DID actually violate the policy.

This is an open door to election fraud, just few days ago, members of the Democratic party in NY where processed and found guilty of fraud. This news never come out in the liberal media of course .

http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/223217-four-democratic-officials-plead-guilty-new-york-voter-fraud-case.html

All over the world , in every country is required to show ID in order to vote, why is that in USA is the only country where the DOJ allege discrimination, this is absurd and only prove the intention of fraud electoral. ACORN was also involve in voter registration fraud.

"The state's data demonstrate that non-white voters are both significantly burdened" by the law and "disproportionately unlikely to possess the most common types of photo identification" needed, Thomas Perez, head of the Justice Department's civil rights division, said in a letter to the state.

What form of ID do they use to cash a check, use a credit card or rent a car?

Twoeagles

To Bad It costs a lot of money to get an ID is some states!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a fact it costs upwards of $250 to get one in some cases!! I mean if your birth certificate is not perfect you have to apply for one and pay for that!! Than you have to pay a notary to stamp it and then you have to waste an entire day at the DMV, losing a full work day, because they are not open on weekends or evenings!!! So, GOP MEMBERS, please explain to us poor folk how we are suppose to get an ID!!!

GEE, You can afford a computer but not ID? Did you pay cash for that computer? You needed an ID to use a check or a credit card! $250? Get REAL!

Fedupwithfed. He might have had to pay $250 to get a good fake ID. Even if you dont drive you can get a photo state ID for $10 and its good for years. Who is so poor they don't have enough money for 2 packs of cigs every 5 years? Obongos birth certificate probably cost thousands.

As an independent voter, who admittedly leans towards the Dems, this is one area I can not understand. Why is it a "Bad" idea for every voter to prove who he/she is? Bush 43 received votes from long deceased people in both Ohio and Florida, go figure. Just because you may not have a Drivers License, Military I.D., or a passport, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a freaking I.D. card. The only reason I can see the Dems fighting against this, is all of the so called illegals and the felons who are not "allowed" to vote. But, this goes both ways, being illegal or a criminal is not inclusive to the Dems or liberal thinkers. This is why partisan politics is bogus, and the sooner each side(the voters that is) realize this, the better America will be. Blind faith in politics is seriously way more than just blind, it is flat out F***ING STUPID!!!! Require every eligible voter to show I.D., it just makes sense.

Year after year, democrats have been proven to execute voter fraud every chance they get. The democratic party spends millions of dollars trying to register illegal aliens, convicted felons and any other sheep it can, to get another chance to steal money from hard working Americans... The ones that actually pay taxes (check obama's cabinet for evidence of tax evasion if you have the guts). Currently, there is a recall attempt targeting the Republican Gov. of Wisconsin. Some of the "registered" voters who've signed the petition are: Adloph Hitler and Mickey Mouse. This is verifiable fact.

And, it's amazing how many posts have been "collapsed by the community" where the only thing inflammatory, is that they have been in favor of actually proving who you are when you vote. You liberals are the most criminally corrupt bunch this country has ever known, and you'll do anything to ensure that you're crimes go unreported and unpunished, including having the New Black Panther Party police the polls and harrass and threaten non-democrat voters (check the DOJ report that was filed over voter fraud/harrassment during the obama presidential ellection, which was squashed by Attorney General Eric Holder (look it up)). How about Blagojevich etc. etc. etc. How about Maxine Waters and Charlie Rangel... Not one democratic politician who has any integrity at all, and the democratic voters are a loathsome bunch of selfrighteous, biggoted lawyers and criminals.

if i have to show ID to purchase something as obsolete as white out, then why the hell would i not have to show ID to do one of the most serious things in this country, which is voting?! there are many ways that you can obtain free photo ID's in your state.

from the south carolina DMV website: "If you missed South Carolina Identification Card Day, you can still get an Identification Card at any SCDMV office. Identification cards are FREE to citizens who are 17 years of age or older. Click here to learn more about the requirements.

well you have to be 18 or older to vote, and you can get free ID's when you're 17 or older in SC... so what's the problem dems? you're voters too lazy or something? so sad. this is 2012 pretty much and people are too stupid to do something that should have been required a looonnnggg time ago. sorry to rain on the party of voter fraud, but your arguments get worse and worse everytime this issue is brought up!

an illegal alien got busted down the street from me when i was younger and they deported him and the 13 or 14 other people living there. it was in the local paper the next day that he had ID and had admitted to voting in several elections and using the ID for other reasons, like purchasing the house, car, etc... so you dems are telling me that the illegal can get a photo ID, but the american citizens can't? not buying it for one second. save your breath and shut up!

anti-trust proponent #1.5,

"Since NO birth certificate is a photo ID, then how can anyone prove that the person carrying that birth certificate is really the person listed on that birth certificate ..."

I don't know when it was started or how broadly it was used or how it's done nowadays, but I have my original birth certificate from the hospital and on the back of that certificate are my foot prints. As with finger prints they are supposedly unique.

Let them use their EBT(electronic benefits transaction i.e. food stamps) card as an i.d. Better yet, just swipe the EBT card and automatically votes straight ticket democrat. That way the dem's are 100% guaranteed to get the votes they bought.

Voter ID laws are reasonable measures to help prevent voter fraud. If requiring a valid photo voter ID is somehow a racist attempt to suppress minority votes, then by extension are requiring valid photo IDs to be presented to legally drive a vehicle or purchase alcohol racist attempts to prevent minorities from driving or drinking? Exactly... this "Justice" department is one of the most corrupt in the history of the nation, and this is just another naked attempt to stir up class and racial divisions for political gain and in this case support the efforts of those who want to engage in the abominable crime of voter fraud. Completely disgusting...

@Don:

Many of the states have clearly passed or proposed legislation clearly designed to limit voting by traditional progressive voter groups. For example, why would a gun permit be a reasonable form of identification, but not a university identification card?

Because a gun permit requires a federal background check. University IDs are easily counterfeited and/or altered and have no background check or other verification system. It's the fact that one is issued by the government, the other is issued by a private institution.

@Toasty-- your arrogance is always such a pleasure. Nice to see you again. I was referring to the accounts from Ohio that Bryan referenced. You're trying to avoid the issue of hypocrisy because it doesn't flatter your side of the aisle. (Nor the opposite side, for that matter). Point is, liberals were crying voter fraud immediately after both Bush elections-- now that someone is suggesting a reasonable method to deter it, the hounds are unleashed in the opposite direction because the man in the white house is on their side. It's ridiculous.

@Bryan-- as an independent voter that leans Republican (usually...) I agree with everything that you wrote at comment 1.43. Seems that the independents, regardless of leanings, don't see this as unreasonable. It's a states-rights issue, as bmx mom pointed out at comment 1.22, so the DOJ doesn't have the authority to block this anyway. Let the states determine what sort of qualifications they require. Simple 'nuff.

Again the DOJ, as a part of our federal government, is overstepping it's bounds. This is a state issue as determined by the Supreme Court. The leaders of the state of SC are doing the right thing.

Every citizen has the right to vote, but that doesn't mean they should. Too many voters vote without knowing who it is they are voting for. (ie. Many people were asked questions in a NY city subway after the '08 elections about who they voted for. You wouldn't believe how many idiots thought that Sarah Palin was Obama's running mate and said she'd make a good VP for him.

We need MATURE, EDUCATED ADULTS running our country and right now we don't have them. THAT WOULD INCLUDE BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. It's time to clean up and clean out the excess in Washington.

So..... As an another election year roles around, our President is still using our own tax dollars against us, and to help himself to reelection.

An Obama appointee is blocking SC (who as a previous poster pointed out GIVES AWAY STATE IDS FOR FREE) and he is considering blocking other states from requiring picture ID to vote.

Shocking.

Now why would The President not want to verify that the people voting are in fact who they say they are?

Minorities and non minorities all need ID to cash checks or buy booze or cigarettes, but they can't show one to VOTE????

To do the most important thing you can do, VOTING????

Complete Nonsense. A cheap political move from the master of cheap political tricks.

No, WMG, you didn't even bother to read my post. After Bush's stealing of the election, liberals brought up the issue of ELECTION FRAUD, not voter fraud. Learn the difference, kiddo.

liberals brought up the issue of ELECTION FRAUD

And voter fraud. They brought up both. Try to keep up. There's a good lad.

"minorities that are US citizens that don't drive"

HaHa. You swallow the "racism" marketing tagline whole don't you? Please tell us where it says that white people without an I.D. will still be allowed to vote.

Learn to use your brain instead of reacting to politically-motivated emotionally charged soundbites.

seriously dude. turn off fox news.

the whole black panther story was a manufactured controversy, fabricated, contrived and fashioned to be nothing more than a ball of yarn to be dangled in front of the fox news audience, who has the intellect of a domestic pet.

and then the media is forced to contend with such bogus stories because, well, some people believe it is true so if for nothing else, give them air time so they explain why they believe it is true, lest, heaven forbid, we appear biased.

doesnt work that way. not all opinions are created equal. and believing something certainly does not make it so.

No it's not racism "Filthy cur" because a birth certificate is good enough. That's not a picture I.D. Why do you want to insist that "many" minorities are without legitimate I.D. but do have a voter registration card. That's just ludicrous. Just out and out ludicrous. I don't know one single minority including members of my family that doesn't have a birth certificate or some photo I.D. or all of them.

Now go ahead and call me KKK or whatever. You far left liberals are the same vermin as the far right conservatives. Both of you name call everyone who dares to disagree with you on a SINGLE issue. I have ZERO time for you extremists on both the left and right. "

Then riddle us this righties: why is it that in Texas, photo ID's issued by state institutions such as schools are invalid ID's for voting, thus disenfranchising younger voters who tend to vote Democratic; yet Conceal/Carry ID's are perfectly acceptable?

Please be consistent in your logic of why one form is acceptable and the other not.

In point of fact, the movement by the Republican party runs exactly contrary to the course of American history--they are seeking to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands, if not millions of voters--in the name of eliminating hundreds of fraudulent ballots.

You all might want believe that it ain't about race, but you are the only ones who do. The rest of us recognize it as the cynical power play it is.

FC - "Republican party runs exactly contrary to the course of American history--they are seeking to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands, if not millions of voters-"

And the Democrat party is seeking to disenfranchise all legal American taxpayers to gain the votes of the 15 million illegal immigrants on American soil. A political party this desperate and this uncaring cannot survive.

- PJAM

Illegal Immigrants cannot vote PERIOD.

STOP your whining that Obama is catering to Illegal Immigrants for their votes, that is a specious argument at best .....

Obama / Biden 2012

- PJAM

Illegal Immigrants cannot vote PERIOD.

STOP your whining that Obama is catering to Illegal Immigrants for their votes, that is a specious argument at best .....

Obama / Biden 2012

If an ID isn't required to vote then it should not be required to drive, or buy alcohol, or purchase a firearm, etc.

Buying alcohol isn't a civil right like voting is, and you don't need an ID to buy guns where I live. And truth be told, technically owning firearms isn't an individual right...

I see absolutely nothing wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote. You need to show a photo ID to buy alcohol or cigarettes, so why shouldn't you need one to do something far more serious like picking the leaders for this country. Most state's provide non-driver photo IDs for free, so there is no problem with getting an ID to use in order to vote. Even in the few states that do have a charge for this ID, it is very minimal, $5 at most. I think that having a photo ID to vote is a small thing to do in order to prevent illegals from voting, which is occurring in many southern and southwestern states.

For the person that ranted about Texas not allowing student IDs but allowing carry/conceal permits for ID, the reason is pretty clear, one is a state issue ID and the other is not. Beside, fraudulent student IDs have been a problem for along time and that is why virtually no one other than the school will accept them as an ID. Any ID that is used to verify identity in order to vote should be state or federal government issued in order to prevent fraud. It would be too easy for some non-government outfit like some bogus company to start issuing photo IDs to anyone with little or no verification of true identity involved. This would defeat the whole purpose in requiring the photo IDs to start with.

The Justice Department move marks an escalation in the battle between the Obama administration and Republicans who control the legislatures in some states just 11 months before the 2012 presidential and congressional elections.

BS. This is not a battle between the Obama Administration and Republicans. This is about Attorney General Eric Holder doing his job. He is enforcing the provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. That act was necessitated by the very type of illegal activity that Haley and her other vile Republican cronies are using once again.

Holder took an oath to uphold the law of this land, and he's doing it.

JS in SD:

In California, when the new "tamper-proof" drivers license was first issued, a counterfeit was created within three hours of the date they came into us. ANY ID can be counterfeited.

Voter Fraud, another thing to fear made up by Republicans. Across the entire country, documented voter fraud across the last couple elections total a number in the few hundreds level. This is in the less than 1 - 100,000 thousandths percentile category and a lot of those are simple mistakes like someone voting in the wrong district. Not all that unlikely considering the butchering of districts done for political advantage.

We ought to be more worried about Secretaries of State in a few places playing games with vote counts, and leaving out entire districts. We ought to be worried about the Supreme Court stepping in and deciding elections. These are both well known Republican driven tactics that have occurred in the last decade.

Illegal aliens voting, another made up thing to fear too. Brought to you by FOX News pundits. Doesn't happen. Can't happen without a whole stack of false documents. Any illegals I know want to maintain a low profile, so they are not about to attempt to illegally register and vote. Not worth the risk. Keep complaining about it and you will only assure that all legal Mexican Americans vote against the bigoted Republican candidates trying to disenfranchise them.

For all you who keep thinking that voter fraud is some huge thing that could overturn elections, wake up and shut off FOX News. Well you are at it, wake up arealize that very, very soon, minorities will be the majority. Keep picking on them and see how that works for you!

The Obama administration on Friday blocked a new South Carolina law

Interesting. In what court was the law challenged?

Is there a summary of the judge's ruling?

I would love to read the judge's summary, can someone point me to it?

"Under the landmark 1965 Voting Rights Act, certain states like South Carolina must seek approval from the Justice Department or the federal courts for changes made to state voting laws and boundaries for voting districts."

Imagine of all the red states used "states rights" to trump all Federal Laws, (already have been). Pass all the laws that you want and see how much of your state tax dollars are wasted in the process of defended those laws that are race and party based.

TOASTY MCGRATH: You better check your facts. The Supreme Court said that the Second Amendment is an INDIVIDUALS Right to bear arms. EVERYONE: South Carolina is not saying that if you don't have a DRIVER LICENSE, that you cannot vote, cause you can get a state issued ID if you don't drive. (Looks similar to a drivers license. I believe ID should be required to vote, other wise ANY non-citizen can vote, and a non-citizen does not have the right to vote in our elections. The only reason the Democrats want the NO-ID, is so they can get the ILLEGALS to vote for them...

U dont have 2 drive 2 obtain a legal ID. Nor 4a passport. Also, why when u argue with lib's it alway's ends with "u r a klansman, NAZI, homophob.... Never a rational rebuttal.

And it seems you don't have to spell to post on the Internet. Are you really that lazy? How much time did you save? Eventually, you wont be able to spell at all.

Please tell us what was so rational about your rebuttal?

Boy this is really getting ridiculous. The DOJ says there is no voter fraud in this country, but yet just recently some democrat was talking about voter fraud in Florida. I happen to know for a fact there is voter fraud in this country. Specifically when a friend of mine went to vote and she couldn't because the records showed she had already voted. The line where you sign in by your electronically printed name is had already been signed. Problem is it wasn't her signature and she hadn't voted yet. A picture ID is definitely needed. Odumbo is scared to death to lose all of his illegal alien votes that's all that's happening here. What a worthless president.

If the Republicans were truly concerned about voter fraud, why did the GOP not address the issue of voter fraud after the 2000 election? The Republicans have absolutely nothing positive to offer America. Thus, the party must resort to a bag of political tricks to slink their way into the White House in 2012. These reactionaries will stop at nothing to force their oppressive policies on the American people. As the 2012 election draws near, the Right will probably sink itself into more forms of sheer political desperation.

Drwho- Mexican citizens need ID to vote in mexico but not here. For all those crying racism minnesota (mostly white) convicted 113 "people" for voter fraud in 2008. Minnesota’s 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, “ineligible voter knowingly votes” under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

Thats just one state, without ID laws catching people will be as accurate as saying only those caught speeding ever speed. A dozen just got caught near atlanta last month strangely enough they where all black.

Ok. So let's say this fixes what the republicans call just a problem that happens with the democrat voters... what I want now is life sentences for republicans that fix ballots like they did in Florida to help Bush win!!!

steveaae,

If the Republicans were sincere about stopping voter fraud, why did not the party look for ways to stop "voting issues" after the 2000 general election? Maybe the party did not act then because their "pick" got into the Oval Office? Now that Obama is in the White House, all of a sudden this Right-Wing party is concerned about voter fraud. Does not the GOP's sudden actions lead you to think about or question their motives?

Funny how Democrats always say there is no such thing as voter fraud, that they never want to put in place any measures to stop voter fraud, that illegal immigrants and college students don't commit crimes and that anything they don't agree with must have been brought to you by FOX news. You are SOOOO predictable and such a broken record.

No photo ID - No voting. Too many people look alike and need to be identified by photo ID. Nothing wrong with that except if you are a crook or want to commit voter fraud.

A dozen just got caught near atlanta last month strangely enough they where all black.

Being black near Alanta is strange to you? Seeing that 2/3rds of the population is black, it's not hard to believe at all.

mikela, the Florida event was quite amazing.

Illegals cannot vote? Are you 5 years old? Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That this has to be said explains why the idiot Obama was elected in the first place.

Needing a photo id to vote is a very low bar.

We KNOW illegals are voting. We KNOW illegals put their kids in public schools. We KNOW that illegals are receiving government benefits, healthcare benefits, etc...

Or are liberals so stupid that they actually believe illegals are not smart enough to defraud the government? How many ways and how many times does this have to be exposed?

Illegal aliens are being recruited by the far left radicals to defraud our voting system. This is also proven over and over.

And as for me, the Texas example of what ID is or isn't ok is ridiculous. You see most conservatives don't hate minorities, and many of us are minorities. We do however value the law and love our country. And our country and our laws are being trampled.

2.19 speedy - florida.

I TOTALLY agree with you.....

TOASTY...

What state you live in that will sell you a gun without an ID? You have no idea what it takes to buy a gun legally, do you?

FC, CO Haven....

Texas concealed carry license is accepted because it represents a background check that is second to none. Student ID is not accepted because it is not issued by the state and nothing is verified prior to issuing.

Nice try though.

inglemann

U dont have 2 drive 2 obtain a legal ID. Nor 4a passport. Also, why when u argue with lib's it alway's ends with "u r a klansman, NAZI, homophob.... Never a rational rebuttal.

inglemann,

Truly your "statement" is an excellent example of poor grammar and illogical thought. Where is your "rational rebuttal?"

mikela There was nothing wrong in Florida, you are delusional.

Voter fraud doesn't happen, haven't you been reading all the post.

Voter froud in New York is a not an isolated case Democrats always do.

http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/223217-four-democratic-officials-plead-guilty-new-york-voter-fraud-case.html

Democrats want to win next election and fraud is one of their options, the other one is hide votes from military overseas because those are heavily Republican.

http://www.redstate.com/martin_a_knight/2010/11/02/democrats-and-union-officials-miraculously-finding-lost-ballot-boxes-in-their-car-trunks/

Ever hear of Arizona, OFG?

To Paul and others who call Obama supporters and democrats in general morons, I could say the same about anyone who supported 8 years of GWB , a man who drove this country into the ground, and after saying he was a "uniter" over and over, at the end of his reign, this country had become more divided than ever in recent history. And please show me the proven FACT of a widespread plan by the democrats to register illegal aliens to vote? That is garbage, seems you have been drinking the kool-aid supplied by the repubs!

As far as requiring everyone have a photo ID, part of the problem here is also the timing, can it be assured everyone gets the opportunity in time to get one, second there is the issue of expense, if it costs ANYTHING to be required to vote it isn't legal, even if it is only $5 or whatever amount you say it is. Where I live I know it costs more than that. And a passport? Have you priced one lately? I don't think we as a country will be able to come together on anything for a long time. The posts here demonstrate that.

Toasty...

I have heard of AZ and it is in the United States last I heard.

Question for you, "Have you ever heard of the Brady Bill".

I respond to your question with another question: are you familiar with the phenomenon known as "gun shows?"

The new voter ID laws being shoved in our face by Republican controlled state governments wouldn't be so bad if they made everybody jump through the same hoops. If a 70 year old housewife that never drove needs to dig up a birth certificate, haul her ass to some distant DMV to get a state approved picture ID card, then the same requirement should be put in place for the guy with the pack and carry permit, he should have to do the exact same thing all over again and even with that it would be easier for him though not necessarily convenient. These laws rub the wrong way because they are meant to give advantage to favored populations and that is why they stink to high heaven.

Go find a guy with a concealed carry permit that does not have a drivers license. I will never say never but you will be awile on that hunt. And just in case you want to name a person with a DWI, that offens will cost your concealed carry permit as well.

Toasty.. Gun shows can have private sales but most are dealers subject to laws state and federal. Frankly I would never buy a gun from an unknown origin.

All of you just give it up. A picture ID is not an obstacle for someone capable of making a decision as serious as voting.

It's more than a decision, it's a constitutional right. That's the point.

Constitional rights come with RESPONSIBILITY!

Ahem... Attend, oh Newsvine, to this gem:

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden­tial vote margin in Florida in 2000.

There is a need for greater voter verification. Anyone who says different is just trying to ensure benefit from an illegal voting bloc.

WMG-21, you will have to give us a link to the quote, so we can verify the info. This is the code of Newsvine, and when you signed on you agreed to follow the code of honor, just saying. Many here post or paste quotes without the link to the authors, and this is mis-leading as the source can not be verified, therefore can not be debated.

A quick search found this rebutal, maldef.org/truthinimmigration/Rebuttal_to_Heritage_Foundation.pdf

Here is the text of the rebuttal from the link above,"

The GAO study as a whole belies von Spakovsky's assertion, however. The 2005

report features data from 14 U.S. district courts. GAO researchers asked staff associated

with these courts for information about the number of individuals who were called for

jury service and responded that they were non-citizens.

4 These researchers found that the

"AOUSC officials and federal jury administrators we spoke with generally did not have

exact data on the number of people called for jury service that responded that they were

non-citizens."

5 Due to the lack of concrete data, 6 of the 14 gave no information to the

GAO. Of the remaining 8 jurisdictions,

4 of them had never witnessed non-citizens who

had been called to serve on a jury

.6 Ten of the 14 district courts surveyed, then, could

offer no evidence whatsoever of non-citizens in jury pools. Ignoring this, von Spakovsky

presents isolated data from just one of these fourteen jurisdictions. Further, 3 of the 4

courts that did report non-citizens in their jury pools estimated that non-citizens

comprised, respectively, approximately 1%, 0.158%, and 0.01% of the jury pool.

7 Von

Spakovsky, in his attempt to manufacture concern about a nonexistent crisis, simply

ignores key elements of the GAO report that do not support his hypothesis that noncitizens

threaten the integrity of U.S. elections.

It should be noted, furthermore, that being called to jury duty is not the same

thing as voting fraudulently in an election (despite Von Spakovsky's suggestion that jury

pools are proxies for voter participation). As noted in the GAO report, several of the

district courts' jury pools contained names drawn from state identification or driver's

license records in addition to voter registration lists. Even assuming that non-citizens in

4

Government Accountability Office, Report to Congressional Requesters: Additional Data Could Help

State and Local Elections Officials Maintain Voter Registration Lists

, GAO-05-478, at 4 (June 2005).

5

Id.

6

Id.

7

Id. Federal jury administrators in the different districts provided monthly or yearly percentages.

5

jury pools appear on voter registration rolls, that wouldn't establish that a) these voters

have ever voted in federal elections or b) that these voters voted while knowing they were

ineligible (i.e., voted fraudulently). Even von Spakovsky's skewed evidence is only

significant if one makes these unsupported assumptions."

And let me remind you that many people check the "non-citizen" in order to avoid jury duty. Spin baby, spin.

Try google.

Here's the GAO report:

Recommendation: To assist state election officials in identifying individuals on voter registration lists who may be ineligible to vote because of their felon or non-citizen status, the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts should determine the feasibility and steps necessary to implement a requirement that U.S. district court jury administrators provide notice to state election officials of potential jurors who identify themselves as non-citizens on their jury qualification questionnaire.

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-478

O.K. and what has that to do with voter fraud? Again, many people check the "non-citizen" box on a juror card, in hopes they will not be selected. How you link voter fraud and "To assist state election officials in identifying individuals on voter registration lists who may be ineligible to vote because of their felon or non-citizen status, the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts should determine the feasibility and steps necessary to implement a requirement that U.S. district court jury administrators provide notice to state election officials of potential jurors who identify themselves as non-citizens on their jury qualification questionnaire." this recommendation reads for itself.

"3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden­tial vote margin in Florida in 2000.", unfortunatly that was not the average of the few couty's survryed, but the one county with the most cases. Are you trying to make a mountain out of a molehill? Spin baby spin.

Like other Parrots, out there you fail to include who you plagiarised, The Heritage Foundation, a right-wing conservative group, and the plagiarised quote mentioned the G.A.O., as if they were the authors, spin baby spin,. Again without links to your plagiarized comments you have no value, and are only speaking opinion.

Sure the U.S. district court administrators should give notice to State election officials of those who identify themselves on juror questionnaires as "illegal" to avoid jury duty, but that proves nothing, only punishes those who check "illegal" in the box. As it should be.

here is a bit more from my link above,

4

"The GAO study as a whole belies von Spakovsky’s assertion, however. The 2005

report features data from 14 U.S. district courts. GAO researchers asked staff associated

with these courts for information about the number of individuals who were called for

jury service and responded that they were non-citizens.

4 These researchers found that the

“AOUSC officials and federal jury administrators we spoke with generally did not have

exact data on the number of people called for jury service that responded that they were

non-citizens.”

5 Due to the lack of concrete data, 6 of the 14 gave no information to the

GAO. Of the remaining 8 jurisdictions,

4 of them had never witnessed non-citizens who

had been called to serve on a jury

.6 Ten of the 14 district courts surveyed, then, could

offer no evidence whatsoever of non-citizens in jury pools. Ignoring this, von Spakovsky

presents isolated data from just one of these fourteen jurisdictions. Further, 3 of the 4

courts that did report non-citizens in their jury pools estimated that non-citizens

comprised, respectively, approximately 1%, 0.158%, and 0.01% of the jury pool.

7 Von

Spakovsky, in his attempt to manufacture concern about a nonexistent crisis, simply

ignores key elements of the GAO report that do not support his hypothesis that noncitizens".

threaten the integrity of U.S. elections.

Parrots, only like sunflower seeds.

this also comes from the link I posted above. "

It should be noted, furthermore, that being called to jury duty is not the same

thing as voting fraudulently in an election (despite Von Spakovsky's suggestion that jury

pools are proxies for voter participation). As noted in the GAO report, several of the

district courts' jury pools contained names drawn from state identification or driver's

license records in addition to voter registration lists.

Gee, care to refute that , voter registration is not the only source of juror rolls in the Districts investigated by the G.A.O., Spin baby, spin.

What that means is if you do not register to vote you can still be on the jury, sounds constitutional to me, how about you?

The G.A.O. recommendation says those who check non-citizen should not vote.

Hey Bob, if you haven't noticed, statistics and quotes from supposed experts are in NEVER-ENDING supply. I often read or witness a debate over (name your issue) and there's ALWAYS countless points to be made on both sides. Do you know why that is? Well, it's been suggested that these "experts" already have a pre-conceived notion about the outcome they are looking for. Therefore, their "search" for the facts is tainted before they begin. So, instead of web-searching for "facts", how about just asking the question: Is it right and just for a non-citizen to vote in this country? Even if it's just ONE measly vote, is it justified?? And, if it isn't, then what can we do to eliminate even the slightest the possibility? Instead of just bashing people who have a potential solution, suggest one that eliminates the possibility yourself.

You will never eliminate voter fraud entirely. But your comment "Is it right and just for a non-citizen to vote in this country", shows your lack of understanding the issue, as it has been pointed out that citizens who have no right to vote are a larger group of voter fraud, than a non-citizen.The current law is sufficient deterant to voter fraud. If people in a particular State find their State's rule's for voter registration and voting are not to the standards of other States, they have their work cut out for them at the State level as is the law.People's attempts to post plagerised and politically bent opinion only show their disrespect for current law, and our constitution, it is not in the best interset for their cause and will not justify their means of conveying their opinion.Your comment" Instead of just bashing people who have a potential solution", appears to be directed to me, personally. So, state how my comments have "just bashing paople", and not contradicted plagerised, and politically motivated reports and cut and paste articles?

...and I do amend my comment in #1670.54, in regards to the term "illegal", that word should have been "non-citizen". You see I can correct my error's, but have to admit many do not. It is comman knowledge that juror questionaires are filled out wrong by qualified citizens, so they can avoid the inconvienience of jury duty, and the G.A.O. report conclusion states that the Juror Administrator should inform the Voter Registration Administrator, so if their is a discrepancy, that person should not be allowed to vote, and I think that is right, and my opinion on how to stop some further vote fraud, or at least make those who try to avoid jury duty, play by the same rule as most Americans should.

Also Daniel, as you say, " statistics and quotes from supposed experts are in NEVER-ENDING supply. You certainly can not include the G.A.O. report as it is a reporting and investigative agency of our government, unless you find fault.

Again the Heritage Foundation has been found in error on their report of voter fraud, yet they have not retracted or amended their error. That is why I do what I do, fight untruth from Institutes that are wrong, and will not admit to it.

Okay, two things: 1) You never answered the question, is it justified? 2) You never stated what can be done to ELIMINATE the POSSIBILITY of non-citizens voting in our country. You said: "You will never eliminate voter fraud entirely" That seems defeatist. Are you telling me that if we could stop an illegal activity (easily I might add), you wouldn't act? And, furthermore, asking somone to show thier ID has become some kind of an afront to an individual??? Really? I AM a Mexican American (although I prefer to just call myself an American) and I have no problem showing my ID to vote. Why is it that others have a problem with PROVING they are citizens?

Again their has to be factual info that supports your assumption "ELIMINATE the POSSIBILITY of non-citizens voting in our country" The possibility is presumed that is why offenders are prosecuted under current laws. The suggestions related to me show no way of eliminating the possibility, you have to agree, if not, quote them again, please.

" Is it right and just for a non-citizen to vote in this country? Even if it's just ONE measly vote, is it justified?? And, if it isn't, then what can we do to eliminate even the slightest the possibility?", No, to your first question, you are talking about a crime and no law will completely stop it, happens all the time in society that we have a criminal element, that is why their are laws and punishment on the books. We as citizens are the first responders to a crime, being a victim or witness.

Identification papers have been forged for ever, and will be in the future. Perhaps in the future we will have fingerprint I.D. data base for all citizens, but that to me is big government, and expensive.

But showing an identification card is not since most, if not ALL legal citizens have a form of identification. Anyone who is a legal citizen of ths country of the United States SHOULD be able to produce a legal means of identification......if they cannot, then there is an inherent problem. Why is it you want to protect them from validating they are a legal citizen?? This is as ridiculous as people who DON'T want red light cameras.....if you've run a red light, you are guilty. Sure, their might be some errors, but the greater number of offenses will be ACCURATE. You seem to be protecting the greater few rather than thew greater good.

Your first sentence says it all. Most but not all legal citizens have a form of I.D..

"Why is it you want to protect them from validating they are a legal citizen??", you said that not me, let's not conjure up bias, or assuming someone's thoughts. Voter signature rolls in my State have the signature of the registered citizen, and on election day the citizen must sign the poll roster, in front of two or more polling judges, one from each party. If the signature is not matching by the opinion of any one of the judges, then the voter is asked for further I.D.. How democratic is that? If your State law is different, than I suggest you as a citizen do your best to change the State law. Voter signature rolls are not public information. So, the illegal voter would have to know how to sign the voter roster with a name of a person who has not voted yet, and be able to forge their signature to pass the judgement of the polling judges.l

"Anyone who is a legal citizen of ths country of the United States SHOULD be able to produce a legal means of identification......", your quote. Yes, and a signature is a legal means of identification, when used to compare to a persons certified signature on the voter roll, which again is registered by State law. In our State all political party's have a representative to certify the voter registration.

There is a lot of people who are responsible for the voter registration, voter roll, and roster. There are times when mistakes are made that pass thru, we are human, yet no one has submitted a plausible account of the extent.

I may not have the specific legal terms for "roster" and "roll" as written in the law, but that is how it works from my eyes, and experience.

"Voter signature rolls in my State have the signature of the registered citizen, and on election day the citizen must sign the poll roster"

"Yes, and a signature is a legal means of identification, when used to compare to a persons certified signature on the voter roll"

So, where in this process ,is the voter required to prove he/she is citizen and a non-felon? At some point the signature you are referring to is validated, correct? Like, showing an ID/birth cert for example. Hopefully the responsible parties you spoke of are not accepting electric bills as proof of citizenship. I am not being facetious, I am seriuosly trying to get a grasp on the process in your state.

That does bring up another point though, this process may only be employed in your state (maybe others)and not necessarily in all states. There may be 'cracks' in other voting systems. And, again, it couldn't hurt to ask for an ID...in my opinion. What I have learned in 43 years is that, generally speaking, people that are opposed to laws are the ones breaking them. The guy that hates speed cameras, is the guy racing around in traffic with little regard for others on the road. So, if there are extra measures that can be taken to (help, i suppose eliminate is too much too expect) prevent a crime, we should not be afraid to emloy them.

The voter registration is when the citizen must prove their identity, and citizenship, that would be differant in each State, from what I understand. The specifics for your State may be differant than mine. her is a link to State by State, http://www.declareyourself.com/voting_faq/state_by_state_info_2.html

I believe the debate is whether it is appropriate for some States to change their requirements, and how much time is alloted before a election for those who are citizens, but have no current I.D.,birth certificate or other.

I have found no evidence that a citizen can register to vote in a State with just a electric bill. Citizens who have moved from one State to another must show residence in the new State, and also prove their identity, again that identity depends on the new State law.

I believe the current laws are adequate, at least from where I come from and my 40 years of voting.

This may not be necessary but I gotta say, it's been good having this discussion with you. There's a a lot of demonizing, name calling and other means of belittling one's (opponent?) for the sake of trying to "win" a debate. You've eloquently stated your opinion without being an ass and, for the sake of being a gentleman, I'd like to say I appreciate that. I still hold to my opinion but you've enlightened me some. Thanks. Buenos noches.

contradicted plagerised, and politically motivated reports and cut and paste articles?

I never "plagerised" [sic] anyone. The sections I quoted were indicated as quotes. I would be plagiarizing if (and only if) I had claimed to be the author, which was never the case. As far as politically motivated reports, I find it highly dubious that the GAO is all that motivated for one party or the other-- it's an accountability office, they're tasked with watching both parties as well as independents, etc. The whole apparatus, in other words, not just one side of the aisle or the other. As far as "cut and paste articles" umm... how else would you prefer I present the information in a comprehensible, easy-to-read/understand format? Computers are neat like that-- cut and paste is effective. Your attempts to demean the method also belies your own penchant for the tool as exhibited in several posts you've made in this conversation alone.

Also, by describing the failures of certain jurisdictions to keep accurate records (comment 2.55), I'm not sure how that supports your argument. If anything it's another example of how poor government oversight is allowing people to slip through the cracks, so-to-speak. I mean, these are people that are on voter-registration records and then they indicate non-citizen when it comes time to post up for Jury Duty, and the state/county isn't taking stock of those people? That's a critical failure. They need to follow up to determine if they lied when they registered, or lied when they were called as a juror, and should be taken to task for either offense.

It can be debated both ways, the timing of the "I.D." requirment for actually voting on election day, may cause some who have the legal right now and have followed the law to not vote, because of circumstances beyond their control, just as some "none eligible'people are found to vote with todays laws, they have ways around the law.

I believe the right to vote should not be infringed by to much "law", just as the right to bear arms, another of the first ten amendments to the constitution. Like you say the more laws their are the more they may contribute to more people breaking the law, but it may punish those who break the law to a larger extent, and reduce crime, that is the great debate.

WGM, I was not refering to you directly, but others who commented before you, and did not state the actual source of their quote, which is Newsvines policy, and signed by all who have a access to it. Sorry for the confusion.

Danial, and WMG-21, have a great New Year, and may God be in your heart. I was educated by the Sisters of the Nazarene, and they taught me that God's Law was most important, and I can remember my rosary.

Join the Popular Amendment Movement and help pass the two constitutional amendments posted at www.faircampaignreform.us. The Election/Campaign Finance Reform amendment would do both of what you desire.

This judge is going to lose and lose big if this gets challenged thanks to the very law that Ron Paul opposes with the Civil Rights act of 1964. Prior to that it was illegal but of course they then passed that act and now it became legal to do this type of thing.

So the DOJ says voter ID laws hurt minorities? Translated into plain English this means it would make it impossible for illegal immigrants to vote in pesidential elections. While it is supposed to be illegal for them to do this now, the DOJ (that is Obama's DOJ) wants to make sure that there is no effective way to enforce this law, that if enforced would cost the Democrats/Obama millions of illegal votes.

Nevada has had a voter ID law for many years now and there have been no problems for "legal" minorities being able to vote, only those in this country illegally, who want to vote so they can get their candidate in office and change America to be more friendly toward them. As it is, if we got any more illegal immigrant friendly, we would simply hand control of the country to the illegal immigrants.

Antitrust, Thanks for the link. In this electronic age the E.C. is a rediculous and out-dated system.

I guess you forgot that Bill Clinton was elected twice without 50% of the popular votes. But why should you let facts get in the way of your argument.

“The Obama administration on Friday blocked a new South Carolina law that requires voters to have photo identification because of concerns it would hurt minorities'...”

Gov. Nikki Haley still retains the right to institute frequent State Wide driver’s license, vehicle license and insurance identification roadblock checks to ensure that everyone on the road has all required documents and tags. Stringent fines should be issued to anyone not adhering to South Carolina’s requirements. Repeat offenders should be jailed and fined.

We should have a voter i.d, or some sort of fingerprint system that assures voter legality.

Everybody should be very concerned about voter fraud. Even if at this time it is a small amount it undermines the system. Look at the ME where there is lots of voter fraud. Many don't bother to vote because they don't believe in the system that they believe is full of corruption.

BTW, when I worked an election site in NC some years ago, the democrats drove up into the rural mountains and fetched people that could not read or write and drove them down to the voting site and literally showed them on the ballot who to vote for. I saw it with my own eyes. I am not suggesting republicans would not do the same thing, but this event has stayed with me since and is why I am very concerned that voting stay extremely honest.

There is a simply solution that every citizen have a citizen card with a photo. So for those that don't drive, or don't have a passport, or whatever, this would stay with your person.

What is equally important is why approx half of legal age people do not vote. During the non-presidential years the percent is in the 30 percent which is abysmal.

Agree! It's past time to get rid of the Electoral College and let the People's vote count!

Sooo, you have to have a photo ID to get a library card but when it comes to voting, why, no ID necessary. Hmmm. How, exactly is this requirement discriminatory to minorities? Don't they also need said photo ID for say, entering a Federal Building, getting on an airplane, opening a bank account....guess minorities don't do those things, right?

Yes, Lets just declare him dictator and forget all the laws! He never would have won in the first place if all the dead people,prisoners, and illegals hadn't voted! This is just another example of how corrupt this government really is. They will do anything to keep the real people from voting. Way to go Obumma

Do what they did in Iraq, dip the finger in the ink bottle! Everyone that votes does the same thing! NO MORE PROBLEM!!!

Filthycur - if Gore would have taken his own home state (which he lost) Florida would have been moot ... and certainly, no Dailey, er Democrat, has ever commited voter fraud. As for the EC, there have many posts on that. I Prefer to leave it in to 1) prevent a 50 state recount whenbeen the total vote is close, and 2) prevent states like Ca and NY from trampling over the rights of other states.

And after 3 recounts when Gov. Gregoire beat Rossi several years back, illegal votes counted more than 10x the vote difference. Voter fraud may not be systematic, but I like voter ID rules.

The US Constitution set up the Electoral College because our great founders wanted to prevent the larger and more populus States from controling the election. The Liberals want New York and California to Control the elections. Could you imagine if they had control of the elections. God Forbid.

The libs need a Constitutional Convention to change it. Kudos to the US Constitution

What about the ruling by the Supreme Court in 2008 that declares that states CAN REQUIRE photo ID at the polls?

There is an article dated 4/28/2008 that talks about it.

4/28/2008

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled Monday that states can require voters to produce photo identification without violating their constitutional rights, validating Republican-inspired voter ID laws.

In a splintered 6-3 ruling, the court upheld Indiana's strict photo ID requirement, which Democrats and civil rights groups said would deter poor, older and minority voters from casting ballots. Its backers said it was needed to prevent fraud.

It was the most important voting rights case since the Bush v. Gore dispute that sealed the 2000 election for George W. Bush. But the voter ID ruling lacked the conservative-liberal split that marked the 2000 case.

The law "is amply justified by the valid interest in protecting 'the integrity and reliability of the electoral process,'" Justice John Paul Stevens said in an opinion that was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Anthony Kennedy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24351798/ns/politics/t/supreme-court-upholds-voter-id-law/#

Willing Sniper: Yup, seems the Supreme Court requires a photo ID.

The Constitution specifically allows each State to set the voting standards for themselves. This appears to be an example of Obama/Holder overstepping their bounds and 'governing by decree'.

Obama is not the Emperor, despite his imperial decrees. I suspect the Supreme Court will likely have to rule on this usurpation of State's Rights.

@filthycur

I am all for voter's rights, and everyones ability to have their voice heard especially since the Supreme court ruled that lobbyist's money was speech and not property (wrong in my opinion-everyone can afford words not every one can afford money, but thats another topic) We are however, a republic with states rights, not a democracy. So the electoral college balances our system of elections. otherwise Presidents can ignore most states and concentrate only on the needs of the few most populated ones. Not a fair shake for our system of govt. For instance a president can ignore the entire midwest and not care... that's not who we are.

Willing.Sniper "What about the ruling by the Supreme Court in 2008 that declares that states CAN REQUIRE photo ID at the polls?"

The Obama Administration is depending on a vague provision from the Civil Rights legislation of the 1960s wherein certain Southern States were required to get Federal approval of changes to their voting laws. Obama/Holder are just hoping that the lengthy process of going through the various courts will block the new voter ID law until AFTER the 2012 election, and to discourage other Southern States from passing similar laws.

Everybody recognizes that the new law will be upheld once it gets to the Supreme Court, but Obama is counting on tying it up past the 2012 elections.

Pure politics by Obama/Holder.

I see an easy solution for this here in Florida anyway...anyone stopped and not having a photo ID on them can be held in jail until their identity can be proven...so have an officer outside of EVERY voting booth checking the ID of EVERY person that shows and if they have no ID hold them until their identity can be verified...no discrimination since everyone will be checked and it is the law.

This type of law might have helped prevent fraud in Ohio in the 2008 elections, where hundreds of young students came from New York or other liberal states and used a common address to register to vote and then, after voting in New York, drove to Ohio to vote for Obama again in a 'swing State'.

Wow, the amazing excuses they come up with in this country to allow continued voter fraud! People, get a friggin ID, prove you're legal, and let's do this on the up and up. There is no such thing as "ID discrimination" when it comes to voting!!!! Why do people seem to cry that there are "minority issues" any time people are called into accountability? Do "minorities" somehow have more rights than other citizens? Or was that the illegal aliens? I keep hearing the electoral college discussions, it has far outlived it's usefulness and is currently perpetuating the "president for sale" system that we are suffering from now. Republicans are corrupt, Dems are corrupt, and "we the people" are losing out terribly. Let it go!

I am sorry Larry, this is America. One doesn't PROVE they're legal. The foundation of the system is that conformance to legality, ie., innocence is PRESUMED and that GUILT is to be proved -- instead.

Perhaps you'd missed that memo, ask your secretary, or check the Spam-JunkMail folder.

Getting a photo-id costs money. There's no general need for a photo-id. If it's basically only needed for voting, then it's a poll-tax (oh, that actually IS illegal!).

Leave the Electoral College alone.

Those who do not want it do not understand how it works and why it was instituted.

1. The electoral college gives a larger voice to smaller states - eliminating it will encourage those that disagree to secede.
2. The electoral college keeps single region candidates from winning an election
3. For over 200 years the electoral college kept the most "out of the mainstream" candidates out of the presidency. Obama is as far left as Goldwater was to the far right. The difference is that Goldwater ran stating who he was, Obama spoke and wrote policies that appeared moderate or conservative. Goldwater got dumped, Obama got elected.

On the other side of things. I don't think the people who say that really understand what they are saying.

What happens if we institute the 50% +1 vote or the Popular vote winner wins and that winner is a Republican?

Would these people be happy?

NO!

No Matter the system, if these same people were to lose on any other system, they will complain just as loud and want some other system for that election because they will find some other system that their choice would win.

Roy........Where are your documented facts supporting your claims. I have done a little research on this and I can't find any basis for your charges. I think you might have just pulled them out of your a#&, but then I've read a lot of your posts and you use a lot of inflammatory rhetoric so somebody has got to call you on it and I'm calling for you to supply some facts. It's easy to make statements but it's another thing to state true statements backed up by Facts.

I have no problem with a requirement to show ID in order to vote, AS LONG AS the state that requires it will supply EVERYBODY with an ID at no cost. Otherwise it amount to a charge to vote. It's just another way of turning government over to the wealthy. Now you can't vote if you can't afford it? I'm all for preventing voter fraud, but not at the cost of equality for all.

We know illegals are voting, whats wrong with proving who you are. if you cant get picture ID you should not be voting. its not impossible, its not expensive, its BS that we allow people to vote without positive ID. common sense, who's country is this. do you vote in Mexico why not they vote here. problem is illegals have ID. Democrats are afraid they will lose the election if they lost the illegals. this is not in the best interest of the American people. there is such a thing as a state ID card, so there is no excuse tell Washington where to go, this is a state issue. Washington is really getting out of control.

According to the Supreme Court ruling, 6 to 3, states do the have right to REQUIRE PHOTO ID in order to vote at the polls.

That is a recent decision, it's the current law.

Oh please, as a former pollster I saw voter fraud first hand. ILLEGALS coming into our precinct by the hand full, no English, no name on the register, one younger female asking for the provisional ballots telling them what to do. We were stunned, to say the least. The guy who use to run the precinct put those ballots aside. I HOPE they threw them out, it was obvious voter fraud.

I wanted to see how easy it was to register to vote by absentee ballot without a valid social security number. Appallingly, my 25-year-old DECEASED cat can vote absentee (no, I've never done so)...

Voter fraud is occurring all around us, in disgustingly large numbers. ID's are just the start. We need to validate the registered voters too!

I had to look this one up. Here's the deal

http://www.brennancenter.org/pages/student_voting_guide_ohio

What the Liberals (Brennen Center advising workers to do) allertly did was get students to simply give their intention to live in Ohio and they could register to vote in Ohio. No Real Residency required.

I used a similar loophole to get instate tuition rates. I followed the rules, moved to Ohio during the first semester, got a full time job, paid out-of-state Rates for that year and the following year I paid in-state-tuition.

I don't have a problem with the kids voting, but how do we know they didn't vote back in their home state via absentee too? Knowing this, there should be a nation wide voter database that requires name, locality registering, and SSN. Registration should close 1 week before early voting to permit SSN's to be validated. Require death certificates with SSN's to be forwarded to the election boards who enter them into the National database. With computers, your ability to vote would depend upon you having a valid SSN - and that number not being previously used by anyone. I bet there would be a lot of fraudulent uses of SSN's Discovered.

Don't they also need said photo ID for say, entering a Federal Building, getting on an airplane, opening a bank account....guess minorities don't do those things, right?

Right, to a point. Many of them don't have a reason to enter a Federal building (except maybe the Post Office), can't afford to fly, and simply cash their checks and have no bank account. That's just the way some people live their lives.

I guess you believe you have to have money to be an American. You have to bow down and have an account with one of the crooked banks. Otherwise...you don't count...

Angela - and they all voted Republican - huh?

Actually a provisional ballot does not constitute fraud, but does offer the possiblity of fraud. Depending upon the state, the provisional ballots are verfied before they are counted as part of the vote totals or if they are part of the vote totals - deducted from the vote totals.

In Ohio they had to dump quite a few of the provisional votes, but others that did check out did count.

Obama and holder don't have a problem with the black panthers intimidating voters at the polling places either. Commit a federal crime and obama and holder let you go!!!!!! If your'e black, and making sure white republicans won't vote!!!!!

Ed-1883977 "Roy........Where are your documented facts supporting your claims. I have done a little research on this and I can't find any basis for your charges. I think you might have just pulled them out of your a#&"

You must not have looked very hard. Here's a link to voter fraud by Obama supporters in Ohio;

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/obama-supporters-found-guilty-of-voter-fraud-in-ohio/

..so..... basically what the Obama administration is saying, in so many words, is that there are a LOT of black people in South Carolina to stupid to obtain a state I.D. card....but smart enough to vote Democrat.

It is all very clear to me now.

Jim-952823

Bwahahahahaaaa!!!! Sucks for U!! All this is is Jim Crow 2011, glad for the win...

I see a big "L" for the (R) on this one........

And since when because you're black are you automatically a Democrat? Or is the point to stop as many Democrats as possible from voting? I see someones agenda here.......

P.S. Mabye now that the repubs folded like a poster on the payroll tax cut, those black folks can actually, maybe afford to get an I.D.........

So carl hubert, among a distinct but overly influential minority, thinks hicks and the rich should run the country. After all, they've done such a great job since Reagan kicked off his bid at a site symbolic of racism.

In order to vote, you have to be registered. And you have to register at least 30 days before voting. At that point, you will be asked to prove your voting eligibility by providing a valid, government issued ID with your photo and address on it (usually your passport or DL). Once you are in the system, on the voting day, all you have to do is provide any form of identification with your name on it. A magazine subscription will do. The person checking the voting roster will find you on the list and cross off or highlight your name. What South Carolina is doing is illegal because states do not have the right to demand a photo ID as proof of someone's identity. If that were legal, voting by mail or by absentee ballot would have to be illegal and that is clearly not the case. South Carolina is overstepping its authority on these matters and this is why the DOJ is getting involved. Governor Haley can complain all she wants, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Fact - their is less than 2% voter fraud, 2% people. What a lot of Republican Gov. did was all about 2010 election when Obama was elected, people who normally did not vote, came out to vote. So with the new voter ID law in many states now, they want to make it harder for people to vote. Here in WI we have this 98yr old woman who has voted in every election until now, she can't because she does not have a certified birth certificate. When she was born her mother recorded in the family bible. That is her only proof of she has, sure she could hire a lawyer, and get all the necessary paper work, but she is on a fixed income and cannot afford one, so for the first time in her life she will not be able to vote. Their thousands of stories like this all over the country.

My point is that voting is a right not a privilege, having to show an ID to cash a check, get on a plane or whatever is a requirement not a right, and voting is a right plain and simple.

One problem with the voter ID laws in 14 states, like my mother most people born before a curtain time don't have birth certificates to prove that they were born in the states. In my mothers case the courthouse were the records were kept burned to the ground taking all records with it, she never had a birth certificate after 1927, but, she was a U.S. citizen, if she had to go by the current laws in the 14 states she wouldn't be able to vote. The law is wrong in these states and should be repealed.

So... without photo ID how do minorities cash their welfare checks, obtain food stamps, sign up for WIC and all the other freebies provided by the working people of this country?

So, the concern is proving someone can vote.

Who CAN vote?

Anyone who is

1) 18 years of age

2) A citizen of the U.S. and meets the residency requirements of the State

What is a citizen?

Citizenship is mentioned in Article 1, Section 2, Article 1, Section 3, Article 1, Section 8, Article 2, Section 1, and in the 14th Amendment and several subsequent amendments.

All of these give reference to being a citizen. The 14^th Amendment is the best definition.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code, Section 1401 defines people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

- Anyone born inside the United States. There is an exception in the law the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

- Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe

- Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.

- Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national

- Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year

- Anyone found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21

- Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

- A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Further information on citizenship can be found in the above mentioned Articles and Amendments.

So, how do you PROVE citizenship? Due to our government’s refusal to enforce our borders and prevent illegal aliens from entering our country we have the possibility of voter fraud. Other methods of voter fraud, registering in multiple states, ballot stuffing, buying votes, voter intimidation and others exist. Other than precinct monitoring and other oversight methods without proper identification in a nation of about 236 million eligible voters (90.6 million voted in 2010 midterms), fraud can be significant. A method of voter I.D. is obviously needed, especially with the expansion of advanced or early voting in many states.

Under the Constitution the States are the determinant of who can vote, NOT the Federal government.

For you advocates who argue that many people can’t get to the DMV or other places where I.D. can be obtained, perhaps the same effort used to get these people to the voting precincts should be encouraged to obtain I.D. in advance of the elections.

Any argument of NOT demanding voter I.D. is a submission to a system that can, has been and will be exploited. As a citizen our vote is our most powerful weapon against a government that continues to expand above its Constitutional limits.

Every Constitutionally abiding citizen should demand that citizens and ONLY citizens be allowed to vote.

If you’re a citizen and you want to vote, PROVE IT!

Explain to me why all the Radical Right here seem to miss the most impotent part of the article. "However, Perez said that South Carolina's submission to the Justice Department did not offer any evidence of voter fraud that was not addressed by existing law and that"

So S C created a law to stop a problem that does not exist. The only reason a political party creates a law like this is if it benefits themselves over the other party.If a state creates a law like this, the state MUST ISSUE a VOTER PICTURE ID to EVERY VOTER for FREE!!!!!!!!! Millions more to solve a problem that does not exist.

i think another group of people are being completely ignored here. what about the elderly? it might shock a lot of you to know that there are a substantial amount of senior citizens who do not have id. my own mother never had any kind of picture id until she came to live with me in california and we had to obtain one in order to get a handicap card for my car. her birth certificate wasn't acceptable because she was married to my father and her named had changed so i had to go dig up their marriage license. only by the grace of god did i have either! now, let's move one to those people who don't HAVE a birth certificate or who got a divorce or don't have their marriage licences. my dad didn't have a birth certificate. if he hadn't been in the military, he wouldn't have had any kind of proof that he existed! so, now we have a generation of elderly, many of them alone! who can't prove their citizens and after decades of voting, they have their rights stripped away because some right wing radicals want to stop minority voting? i agree that if a state demands that its people prove their citizenship then that state MUST provide FREE id! otherwise, you will be discriminating against those who can't afford it and i hate to tell you that there are plenty of people in this country to whom $10 is a lot of money. it's a lot of money when it means feeding your kids today or getting an id. it's a lot of money when it means getting gas in your car so you can go to your minimum wage job where you don't even make enough money to feed a dog no less your kids.

these states that are soooooooooooooooooooooo concerned about voter fraud should be more concerned about the people in their midst that are suffering in abject poverty while they wine and dine with their corporate overlords. we, as a country, should be ashamed that 50% of the people in this country live in poverty, that more children than in the entire history of this country are living in poverty and go to bed hungry. THIS should be our concern, not some phantom voter fraud problem. what is it going to take for people in this country to grow a conscience? it floors me that i hear all this lip service to God Amighty and how "Christian" everybody is and how we need to start living "moral lives," and yet we turn a blind eye to the needy except for two weeks surrounding Christmas. the rest of the year, we spend our time blaming the poor for being poor!

corporate america creates the poor and then they blame them for being poor, and they are hard at work brainwashing the rest of the country into thinking that they are right. just reading these posts makes me see that it's working. well, before you start blaming these minorities because they can't get an id, walk a mile in their shoes. what is it that Jesus said? "Do not judge, lest ye be judged." i guess being a good christian is only necessary when it suits your purpose, right?

You want to lay blame? Blame the man in office that has sunk us into more debt than any other president before him! The only reason he is fighting for any one's rights is because he relies on illegals to give him enough votes...just so happens he is not interested in the citizens votes but the non citizens. This counrty is in a rapid decline, terribly unfortunate. Hopefully our next president can bail us out of the mess Obama has gotten us into.

Here is some interesting information from the exit polls in Obama's win in 2008;

People who didn't complete high school (Dropouts) voted for Obama by a 63% to 35% advantage, so it's understandable that Obama would want as many ignorant people as possible eligible to vote.

Joe, nothing to explain. These are desperate people grasping at straws. They hate regulatory intrusions on anything except abortion, school prayer, hurricanes, SS, Medicare and apparently people's voting rights. They also love the Constitution, but can't stand the government not realizing that those two are one. The guys who wrote the Constitution were our post-colonial government officials.

Obama and holder don't have a problem with the black panthers intimidating voters at the polling places either. Commit a federal crime and obama and holder let you go!!!!!! If your'e black, and making sure white republicans won't vote!!!!!

Oh come on! There were two, count 'em, two, Black Panthers there, in a predominantly black section of Philadelphia. So they were hardly "making sure white republicans won't vote".

Typical Fox News watcher.

http://teaneck.patch.com/articles/fdu-poll-watch-fox-news-be-uninformed-6a7e003b

When I worked at the Social Security Administration years and years ago, some of the older & poorer folks would come in to get social security... they did not have a birth certificate. They were born at home and no certificate was ever issued. I don't know if there are still people around like that now but how do they get an ID if they don't have a birth certificate? I am certainly FOR having some form of ID in order to prevent voter fraud and have been astonished to see that ID was NOT required to vote. How did the person who checked to see I was a registered voter KNOW that I was who I said I was???? We are an ID-crazy place... every person should have some form of ID.

Ed-1883977 "Roy........Where are your documented facts supporting your claims. I have done a little research on this and I can't find any basis for your charges. I think you might have just pulled them out of your a#&"

You must not have looked very hard. Here's a link to voter fraud by Obama supporters in Ohio;

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/obama-supporters-found-guilty-of-voter-fraud-in-ohio/

I'll call B.S. on your "source". In this guy's bio he crows about an article on "my work on sexual identity and religion", which puts him in with Marcus Bachmann as a quack. He brags "With Michael Frey, I co-founded a bullying prevention initiative called the Golden Rule Pledge. We promote the application of the Golden Rule by evangelical youth as a means of preventing school bullying". The WWE also has a campaign against school bullying. He claims "The O’Reilly Factor, FOX News Live, CNN and numerous other TV and radio talk shows. My columns and articles have been published by CNN Belief Blog, Salon, National Review Online, the National Catholic Register, Scripps-Howard News Service, Indian Country Times and over 200 newspapers nationwide" as his media outlets/sources...what percentage of these places are strongly right wing?

Of course a Bible thumping, self-righteous bigot is going to come out claiming "voter fraud". Until you can provide an unbiased source I'll agree that you "might have just pulled them out of your a#&".

alessa

should be more concerned about the people in their midst that are suffering in abject poverty

PULEEEEEZ, stop with the faux Liberal bleeding heart pity-party.

In 1960 our poverty rate was 14%. Today, after $12 TRILLION DOLLARS (estimates range between $12 Trillion and $19 Trillion dollars) has been spent on the war on poverty, the poverty rate is 14.3% (adjusted to 15.1% for the current reccession). Just how many more TENS OF TRILLIONS will it take to satisfy you?

It's documented that, despite your Liberal self-aggrandizement, Conservatives are significantly more caring and charitable than the hypocrite Liberals.

In 2006, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism." The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than conservatives.

If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.

-- Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

-- In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

-- People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

"Do not judge, lest ye be judged." i guess being a good christian is only necessary when it suits your purpose, right?

Stop with your pathetic attempt at being so "Christian". You're insulting yourself.

It’s obvious, Liberals are much more compassionate when they steal from the Have’s and give to the Have Not’s. This, in your convoluted logic, is how you define charity and compassion.

So, having shown you the facts, go away.

Your hypocrisy is embarrassing you and you don’t even know it.

while they wine and dine with their corporate overlords.

You mean when your boy-toy Barrack prances around at his $10,000 per plate fund-raisers? I'm sure all you exploited, poor, poverty stricken, little Libbies are the ones at these dinners, RIGHT? Grow up.

Liberals, so easy.

Reposted: FACT:

FilthyCur Bravo!! Now to rid us of the electoral college and have the President elected by a real majority (not like how Bush II got elected).

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#3 - Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:01 PM EST

DG_W "Ed-1883977 "Roy........Where are your documented facts supporting your claims. I have done a little research on this and I can't find any basis for your charges. I think you might have just pulled them out of your a#&"............You must not have looked very hard. Here's a link to voter fraud by Obama supporters in Ohio;

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/obama-supporters-found-guilty-of-voter-fraud-in-ohio/"

I'll call B.S. on your "source".

So the information is accurate, but you don''t like the source? Then just google 'Ohio Voter Fraud Obama 2008' and you will find several other links to the same convictions of Obama supporters for voter fraud in Ohio.

Take you pick of 'sources'.

PS - Attacking the messenger without refuting the message is an old, but ineffective tactic. Is that the best you can come up with.

Roy,Roy, your link will support three people found guilty of fraud, and the present laws worked. Your allegations of hundreds of peolpe voting illegally is unfounded by any link you provided. Spin baby Spin. The voter fraud cases were handled by the State court. Are you prone to conspiracy with a political agenda?

Also most newspapers when writing a story on fraud convictions will not include the Party they are associated with as this is prejudicial, and lends support to what you are trying to do, demean the party because of a few who were found guilty. Spin baby, Spin.

here is a quote from Roy's link,"Michael Stinziano, Director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said he expects there may be more such outcomes since his office referred more allegations to the prosecutor." This link is over three years old, so where have the further investigations by the appropriate County prosecutor gone? Could be their are no others, unless you believe the "Obama Conspiracy " has ravaged the county system of laws.

Rich - Maybe you need to start paying attention.

It's always been legal to keep those who are not legal voters from voting; How do you know who is legal if you don't even know who they are?

A country who cannot even secure the right to vote for it's own citizens has no future, even mid-war iraq required the fingerprints of voters.

How many people would recognize themselves by their drivers license? How many people would still be turned away because they"don't look like the picture on license"?

There's never been enough proof of voter fraud to justify this draconian photo ID requirement.

jrae - "How many people would still be turned away because they"don't look like the picture on license"?"

13?

That's when the authorities can be used to verify the persons identity. Same as if you are pulled over driving with someone elses license, trying to get into a bar with someone elses I.D. etc

Bad checks are a much bigger problem then voter fraud.

Sorry PJ, but unconstitutional is unconstitutional.

they are just trying to keep it so only Americans can vote. it should be law to prove who u are with a valid photo id. otherwise I'm casting my vote as president obama next time i vote

And people in this country illegally are in no way covered by our constitution. This idea that somehow illegal aliens who can't even follow our laws by being in the country legally is a joke. I swore a oath to defend our constitution and protect it for American citizens not someone who can't even respect our country and our laws. Even bigger joke is the term law abiding illegal alien complete contradiction in and of itself.

It's always been legal to keep those who are not legal voters from voting; How do you know who is legal if you don't even know who they are?

A country who cannot even secure the right to vote for it's own citizens has no future...

This is a perfect example of the preposterous claim that we must decrease our own rights in order to protect those rights. Do you know how insane that is?

I wish I could remember who it was that said "If fascism ever comes to the US it will be waving the American flag and carrying a cross" - or something to that effect.

Voter fraud is prevented during the registration process. Illegal immigrants can't register, and if they can't register they can't vote, and if they vote in someone's place then the person who shows up to vote would find out about it, and that literally NEVER happens.

Republican cries of "voter fraud" is a sham designed to gain political power by disenfranchising poor (mostly Democratic) voters. Amazing that anyone could consider themselves "a patriot" while they work to subvert the Constitution and the election process.

Andrew, if they are registering with a stolen identity on a stolen utility bill a illegal alien sure as bleep can vote. The Government just doesn't tell you that. If you can't afford a free or minimally priced state/government id then there is something a miss. Better yet our government already has a mandatory ID process called social security cards. Why not update them every once in a while through a persons lives and ad a picture to them. That way they aren't flimsy paper aka easily stolen.

andrew547 in most states all you have to due to vote is show something with a local address on it like a bank statement or paycheck or even an envolope that when throw the mail with your name and adress on it. Those thing seem pretty easy for anyone to fake. which makes it very easy for illegals to vote

Wow. An attempt to prevent voter fraud is twisted into racism. SC takes a step in the right direction and our national government steps up to prevent progress.

Try cashing a check.

Please.

I handed my card over for a $1600.00 dollar purchase last week and was never asked for ID. Cashiers are too lazy to be bothered with all that extra work of looking at a picture. My cashier wanted to get back to texting. Not to mention, what company trains their staff to spot fake ID's in any degree of efficiency?

People still write checks?

Ohio is not subject to the scrutiny as SC because it is not named in the Civil Rights Act. It is Bs to say it is unfair to minorities to require ID A state ID is available if you can't have a drivers lic.

Rich, If you are able to vote, what is the problem with needing ID? just prevents dems. from bussing in prisoners or dementia pts. from nursing homes. there are other forms of id besides dl's . Get a life, they have done both. But i guess you won't be happy until we have a dictatorship will you???

Andrew, if they are registering with a stolen identity on a stolen utility bill a illegal alien sure as bleep can vote.

You don't have a shred of evidence to suggest illegal alien voting is a widespread problem or even a minor problem. All you have are accusations, and creating restrictive voting laws that disenfranchises millions of Americans based on nothing is pure hackery. That Republicans would attempt it based on zero evidence suggests they are disingenuous political hacks willing to subvert the constitution to gain political power.

Show me the evidence that backs your claims. Oh yeah, there is none. Maybe you should get to work investigating because saying something over and over and over won't make it come true. That's called denial, and Republicans seem to be relying heavily on it regarding this issue.

So.....buying a pack of cigarettes is WAY more important then voting, right?

Buying a pack of cigarettes is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

Maybe that helps put your question of importance in perspective.

...and last I checked China was a communist country. Considering the anti-voter suppression laws are aimed at preserving our democratic process, I hardly understand your concern.

On second thought, maybe your stated concern that not requiring ID to vote is somehow communist explains a lot...

We all remember the case af Black panter supresing voter they right to vote, Erick Holder never tooke this case because they where black. Holder use the race card in his convenience , in the case Fast and Furious he want to insulate himself from any charge using the race cars. Obviously the case of possible electoral fraud is using the race card to facilitate this crime. Members of the Democrat party where found guilty of fraud recently, news that the media bias never cover .

http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/223217-four-democratic-officials-plead-guilty-new-york-voter-fraud-case.html

Acorn was found guilty of voter registration frauds well, Democrat Governor of Connecticut want right to vote for illegals. This is crystal clear. Democrats wan to win and they will do everything to be reelected and get the house back.

Yup. How unconstitutional to require that only American citizens vote. Hell, lets just open up the doors and let anybody vote. Hello, I'm a tourist from a foreign country, just visiting and I demand that I have the opportunity to vote. What? Need an ID? Why, that's unconstitutional, I was born, ergo I can vote, and I don't need to be a citizen to do so. Of course I'll vote democrat, I saw how they did it in Chicago.

We all remember the case af Black panter supresing voter they right to vote, Erick Holder never tooke this case because they where black.

Hey oskar, did you see that story a few weeks ago about the results of a study finding that FOX viewers are less informed than people who consume no news at all? The question now is does FOX make people dumb, or...well...you can draw your own conclusions I guess. The study drew the positive correlation, and I would love to find the causal relationship.

I have to LOL on "we all remember". Hint: stuff like that only goes over in FOXland, where facts come second to spin and propaganda.

Foxland. Hmmm. So voter fraud is a good thing in your book. Ditto voter intimidation. As to said 'study?' My goodness, nope, unsourced 'studies' are a dime a dozen, kinda stupid in fact to use said 'studies' to prove an unprovable point.

...and the Obama campaign still feels the need to play the race card and stir up class warfare...

You can't be serious. You're like the cop who attacks a citizen during a peaceful protest and then justifies further violence against them by claiming they "fought back".

You may want to be serious, but you aren't. I'm sensing you're not totally at ease with rhetorical devices. Maybe some more practice among family and friends is warranted before venturing out into the real world again.

As to said 'study?' My goodness, nope, unsourced 'studies' are a dime a dozen, kinda stupid in fact to use said 'studies' to prove an unprovable point.

I did make one mistake. The most recent "study" was actually a survey by Farleigh Dickinson University.

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/

So there was both a survey and a study. The study was done by the University of Maryland, which drew the same conclusions.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/671.php?nid=&id=&pnt=671&lb=

So there's your source....but you could have found those easily if you really cared about arguing facts, now couldn't you?

Andrew547

Voter fraud is prevented during the registration process. Illegal immigrants can't register, and if they can't register they can't vote, and if they vote in someone's place then the person who shows up to vote would find out about it, and that literally NEVER happens.

Even if it is caught at the Polls when the real voter shows up, the fake vote would still count as well. Since there's no way to know who the imposter voted for, the vote can't be invalidated so the mission was still accomplished. Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent the fraudulent vote from happening in the first place?

As far as the ID law keeping minorities from voting, that was disproven by a University of Missouri professor in a study of Indiana's voter ID law, here's an article about it:

Even if it is caught at the Polls when the real voter shows up, the fake vote would still count as well.

Makes sense, but my point was there are never reports of the correct person showing up to vote and finding someone had already "signed their name"...and there are also no reports (ever) of a fraudster showing up to vote in someone elses name and finding that the person whose identity they were going to use had already voted. If what you claim were an issue, there would be reports of it. The fact that there are no reports of it doesn't mean it never happens, but the fact that there are no reports of it most certainly does not serve as evidence that it does happen. Republicans want to suppress the vote to gain political power. Period.

Regarding your study evidence: I reject the premise that ID laws don't keep people from voting as prima facie ridiculous. Either the study is a hack or you are misrepresenting its conclusions. I know that voter ID requirements most certainly would keep some minorities from voting, so to suggest otherwise seems silly.

Bottom line: You need evidence that voter fraud is so widespread that disenfranchising literally millions of people is less damaging than the actual fraud itself...and even then you may not be able to do it because voting is a Constitutionally guaranteed right. These voter ID laws will never stand, and I find it amazing that Republicans even tried in the first place.

Andrew....Everyone in my state votes by mail only....No ID or proof of any thing needed....In the election before last about 3000 people voted that were in prison...or dead......And,,,can you believe that they were almost all democrat supporters.....

Sanctuary Cities like Oakland in California, New Heaven in Connecticut provide legal DL to illegals, however for poor Americans imposible to get an ID , the Governor Connecticut is also demanding the right to vote for illegals immigrants, this is outrage how Democrats want to win elections, Tim Kaine the part-time Democrat ex-Virginia Governor , now candidate for the Senate got blocked his intention to provide right to vote for inmates. Nothing is more clear, everything is on the table for Democrats in order to steal elections.

Andrew: Your biases are showing.

I never denied my biases.

Read the reports, note that further into them they also state that those watching 'liberal leaning' MSNBC are less likely to know the facts of many issues, just like their Fox counterparts.

That's not what I read. Here is what I read:

Those who watched Fox News almost daily were significantly more likely than those who never watched it to believe that:

- most economists estimate the stimulus caused job losses (8 points more likely)

- most economists have estimated the health care law will worsen the deficit (31 points)

- the economy is getting worse (26 points)

- most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring (30 points)

- the stimulus legislation did not include any tax cuts (14 points)

- their own income taxes have gone up (14 points)

- the auto bailout only occurred under Obama (13 points)

- when TARP came up for a vote most Republicans opposed it (12 points)

- that it is not clear that Obama was born in the United States (31 points)

There were cases with some other news sources as well. Daily consumers of MSNBC and public broadcasting (NPR and PBS) were higher (34 points and 25 points respectively) in believing:

- that it was proven that the US Chamber of Commerce was spending money raised from foreign sources to support Republican candidates

Seems maybe we are not reading the same thing, because here it is, and our accounts of what it says differs significantly.

Governor Connecticut is also demanding the right to vote for illegals immigrants

More lies. The Governor of CT has demanded no such thing.

Perhaps you're talking about the Mayor of New Haven?

DeStefano (the mayor of New Haven) says that noncitizens, including illegal immigrants, already work and pay taxes in the city and that allowing them to vote in municipal elections would encourage them to participate more in the community.

So what does this local issue have to do with you or this story? Answer: nothing...but it sure makes good propaganda to use in getting people so angry about an issue that doesn't exist that they're willing to support laws that subvert the Constitution so one political party can gain power.

One word: Sickening

Ah, cherry picking at its finest. On another note, since the NYT and other media organizations have claimed that there is essentially no voter fraud in the US, why haven't the same groups complained about the massive amounts of money spent on investigating voter fraud?

Then there is the interesting state of affairs at the DOJ and the White House and their affiliations with Project Vote, (one of the new names for the organization formerly known as ACORN) where it seems at least five members of said organization have visited the White House in recent months.

Project Vote's official "position is that voter fraud is a myth invented by Republicans to disenfranchise Democratic voters. The group vilifies as racist anyone who thinks voter ID requirements are a good idea and constantly presses to make voter requirements even more lax than they are now."

One of those group has also been very instrumental in vetting DOJ hires who would be instrumental in promoting the 'Motor-Law.' Seems the department has come under fire for refusing to enforce the laws requiring the states to remove the names of felons, dead and non-residents from voter rolls while, at the same time, zealously enforcing Section 7, the rule requiring states to register voters at welfare offices.

Equally disturbing is the current crop of lawsuits, filed en-masse by Project Vote and allied groups, in several states, demanding that state officials back off and away from investigating voter fraud allegations. The timing for this current SC complaint seems rather....interesting.

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/12/08/acorn-visits-obama-white-house/print

Andrew,

How do you suppose that you catch people that are illegally registering to vote?

If you cannot ask them for something to prove they are a citizen, the entire country of Mexico could come across the border and register to vote. They could all vote, and because you are forbidden from asking them to prove they are a citizen in any way, you will never, ever find any evidence of voter fraud.

Imagine if the government was giving out $1000 cash to every citizen. And all you had to do was provide a utility bill to prove that you are a citizen and then you could get your cash. How many people do you think would not be citizens that would be getting that cash if they only had to show a utility bill, and they knew that it was illegal for anyone to question that they were a citizen? How would you catch them, if you could not ask for any kind of ID or proof that they were a citizen? Your couldn't. The government could give cash to a billion people and still you would not be able to prove that a person took it illegally, because you could not question them at all.

You are asking for proof that there is fraud, and then you deny the very method needed to find the fraud.

atonyharding... if they are registering with a stolen identity on a stolen utility bill a illegal alien sure as bleep can vote.

If they are registering with a stolen ID, what's to stop them from using that phony ID to vote. So how will requiring an ID stop that? Try to think things through.

J.A, Really? Everyone in your state mails it in? Where did you get your info? What state are you from? I don't believe it at all. Besides, I could be mistaken but I think prisoners can vote as long as they are not a felon. Also, voting is supposed to be secret, so how do you or anyone else in your state know they were almost all Democrat supporters? You really need to back up your statements.

How do you suppose that you catch people that are illegally registering to vote?

If you cannot ask them for something to prove they are a citizen, the entire country of Mexico could come across the border and register to vote.

If voter registration fraud is the problem then why are Republicans passing voter ID laws that require an ID at the polls?

Voter registration fraud is not a problem. Neither is the kind of voter fraud that an ID law would solve. Period. Republican governors have offered no proof to the contrary, and enacting voter ID laws in the absence of proof of any significant existence strongly suggests that this is simply a political ploy to gain power by disenfranchising certain groups of voters.

That's what the facts suggest and there's no wiggling out of it. The justice department essentially agrees with my position.

Keep on refuting these lies. You're doing a great job Andrew. Keep sticking it to them. I never knew there were so many uninformed and uneducated people in this country. Now I see how Bush Jr. got elected to a 2nd term.

The Justice Department, under Eric Holder, would agree with your position, that is the problem. If your statements are correct then there is no need for any office of voter fraud investigation. It is a massive misuse of taxpayer funds and needs to be abolished.

If your statements are correct then there is no need for any office of voter fraud investigation.

I have no problem investigating voter fraud when warranted. These things are usually the jurisdiction of states or municipalities, but no state or municipality can pass laws that disenfranchises its voters, which is where Eric Holder steps in - rightfully.

One thing I know is that voter ID laws will not stop voter fraud, but they will discourage or downright prevent millions of Americans from voting. Since voting is a right granted by the Constitution, this will never fly.

I said it before but it's worth saying again: The days of Bush/Cheney governing with lies and Constitutional subversion is over - never to return. That Republicans thought voter ID laws would fly is amazing, and tragic, and disgusting, and tells me exactly where they stand on the overall concept of democracy.

Who is a voter? A legal citizen of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! If you cant prove

who you are you should not be able to vote. How screwed up are we going to let this country get before we do something about it. Stop all this Republican verses Demoncrat fighting and get back to the foundation that made America great. The original intent of the Constitution!!!!!!

Well, since nothing will stop voter fraud, then why are you so against the ID requirements. Seems there is nothing to prevent voter fraud but perhaps an ID would slow it down a tad. Then again, there is no voter fraud, the DOJ tells us so and why would anyone want to fraudulently control an election? Guess the Russians are just being silly when they protest Putin's filling the ballot boxes in a fraudulent manner so he can remain in power.

Of course that is Russia, America has no criminal class or political crooks.

Just how much voter fraud occurs in this country? Statistically nearly ZERO.

So what are they protecting us from?

Toasty,

The Supreme Court has already ruled 6-3 that it IS constitutional to require photo ID in order to vote.

This is just the Obama administration placing themselves above the Constitution and governing like the two-bit, tin horn dictator wanna-bes that they are.

The Supreme Court has already ruled 6-3 that it IS constitutional to require photo ID in order to vote.

That was in Indiana, which unlike South Carolina is not subject to the Voting Rights Act. You're comparing apples and oranges.

On a related note, did you hear that Indiana's Republican Secretary of State was ordered removed from office for voter fraud?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/22/charles-white-indiana-secretary-of-state_n_1166341.html

Ohhhh the irony. You really should know this stuff if you're going to try to use it to make your point because, you know, it could come back and bit you in the ass.

Wow were do I start.. ACORN was only found guilty in the court of public opinion. By Law Every Voter Registrar Must turn in All forms filled out. ACORN itself Flagged the ones it thought to be fraudulent. In Oregon a Republican group was registering voters, they destroyed applications that showed Democratic preference.This caused hundreds of people the chance to vote, this is also Voter Fraud.

Election Fraud is far bigger than Voter Fraud. State after state using Electronic Touch Screen units have been shown to be set up Wrong. ALL these units are controlled by Private Corporations, for set up. Most do not track each voter, only totals. To many are setup so the area you touch is Over sized for one candidate, the other is set so small your touch will cast a vote for the other candidate.

Part 2 of Election Fraud is the number of Voting Machines for a District. You see it election after election, two districts with the same number of registered voters and one gets 10 to 15 voting booths the other gets 3 or 4. Want to guess the income and political persuasion of the district getting the 3 or 4. Its always the Poor Democratic leaning district!!!

Just how much voter fraud occurs in this country? Statistically nearly ZERO.

So what are they protecting us from?

They're trying to protect us from votes they don't agree with cast by people they don't like. There's been talk on the right about re-instituting the property ownership requirement to vote. They argue that unless you have "skin in the game" you shouldn't have a say. My response is that being a US citizen is skin in the game, and that view is backed up by the Constitution...which I am becoming convinced that the right hates.

Just how much voter fraud occurs in this country? Statistically nearly ZERO

I lived in the BVI for awhile. It boasts a low crime rate. I quickly learned that is because there is low crime enforcement. So you have to show an ID for cigarettes and alcohol but voting is out of the question? I heard one argument that poor people do not have ID. Is that true?

The blatantly corrupt and racist Obama administration, Democrats and communist run unions have always found creative ways to commit voter fraud. The proof is 17 states have filed criminal charges against Acorn.

In addition, if The Black Panthers attempt to threaten voters next year, they will pay a heavy price.

Although the article is about South Carolina voter id laws, one has to have the ability to look at the collective whole ! This article although holds its own significance it also applies to a bigger picture. The outcome of this election in my opinion will weigh much heavier in the future "Health" of America as a country. To isolate this article and not consider its ramifications as a whole would not be prudent. When accertaining the importance of a single action one must be able to see its full spectrum of cause and affect. The ripple effect of this act on Obama's part does imbide a leveraged vote towards the democratic party. As is stated in the article:

"The Justice Department has also challenged a new election map drawn by Republicans in Texas, arguing that it does not fairly represent the exponential growth in Hispanic voters. Hispanics largely have supported Democrats in past elections." (this is the last line of the article)

With consideration to the exact words of this article in itself denotes that the democratic party is hoping to open the door to a large faction of people who vote democratic, and by softening the requirements of the non citizen (who just so happen to be hispanic) One cannot look at this article in its isolated purpose.

This article and the possibilities that it opens up for the democratic party does allow for a prejudiced pro democratic vote insomuch as at the same time the democratic party is slandering the main Republican candidate with Racist conontations.

If you look at the subliminal manner in which the words of the article specifically point to Ron Paul IE "The Justice Department has also challenged a new election map drawn by REPUBLICANS IN TEXAS" it is quite obvious who it is that they are trying to turn the minority vote against. Subliminal propoganda has been key in every election. As a general rule the american people have the propensity to believe what they read, believe what is told to them and act on these thoughts. Thusly you cannot deny the parallel media tie of the onslaught of news that has been overtly pumping out Ron Paul racial inuendos and the democratic parties objection to making citizens prove they are citizens before they vote.

In conclusion : Therefore this article is about more than just the content and immediate issue of the South Carolina voting laws !!!!

ANDREW: I am Hispanic, I have an ID and I vote legally!!! Furthermore, I don't have a problem showing it..EVER. I'm not afraid the boogie man is going to take away my soul if I show it. I have a simple question: Should we wait for a problem to rear up before we take action? Secondly, you bash the Fox news audience(basically calling them stupid) and you're right, Fox news is heavily biased. But then you quote Huffington Post...pot, meet kettle. Finally, I agree with you whole-heartedly; the repubs are DEFINITELY using this as a means to affect the outcome of the voting process. However, the demos are opposing the law for the VERY SAME REASON. I say, amend the constitution to cause people (of all states) to show that they are a citizen.

JS69 #4.18,

Specifically Mandarin.

This type of law might have helped prevent fraud in Ohio in the 2008 elections, where hundreds of young students came from New York or other liberal states and used a common address to register to vote and then, after voting in New York, drove to Ohio to vote for Obama again in a 'swing State'.

http://wthrockmorton.com/2009/04/28/obama-supporters-found-guilty-of-voter-fraud-in-ohio/"

Roy, your link says three people were involved and found guilty, that is all. Why say,

"where hundreds of young students came from New York or other liberal states and used a common address to register to vote and then, after voting in New York, drove to Ohio to vote for Obama again in a 'swing State'", and not include any verified prove. Sounds a bit lacking in evidence, and substantial prove. The present law and poll watching worked in this case.

Here is a much more detailed account of the political nature of the current rush by Republicans to push "voter fraud" bills this year. http://www.dailyadvance.com/node/811095

And, why are you guys on the left promoting voter fraud??? Do you think that it is a good thing??? Are you convinced that more voter fraud equals more democrat votes??? could be....

Bob-1920561 "Roy, your link says three people were involved and found guilty, that is all"

These were the organizers, not all of the people involved. There were hundreds of others who potentially voted fraudulently. Read some of the other articles and you will find that it was a far bigger problem than you seem to think.

The the 2008 election, ACORN (a buddy of Obama in Chicago) registered over 40,000 new voters, a large percentage of whom were found to be fraudulent AFTER the election, but the Democratic State Attorney General decided not to investigate.

Bob-1920561

Here's another interesting tidbit on election fraud. Obama's team actually did not legally meet the qualifications to be on the primary ballot in Indiana in 2008, but forged signatures to get the minimum needed. If this had been reported in 2008, the scandal would have prevented Obama from being nominated and Hillary would be the President. Of course, we have to remember that Obama is from Chicago, where these sleazy tactics are a common practice. Here's the link;

http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/3149

By the way - The Attorney General (Eric Holder) has refused to investigate.

Roy before we go on to "Here's another interesting tidbit on election fraud", we have read your account and no where will it support your "These were the organizers, not all of the people involved. There were hundreds of others who potentially voted fraudulently". Again, post the link that states what you say, or are you just promising.

Roy, your second link refers to a primary petition for the Indiana Dem. primary. That petition is governed by the Indiana law, as each state has their own laws on petitions for the primaries, as it is a State right. Holder, and the Federal government have no legal right to interfere, and it is left to the Indiana county election board, one Dem. and one Republican to bring charges to the State Attorney. The article agrees that both election board members signed off on the petition, one Republican and one Democrat, before it was submitted to the State Board of Elections. So where is the beef?

Obama's team actually did not legally meet the qualifications to be on the primary ballot in Indiana in 2008, but forged signatures to get the minimum needed.

I read the story you link to and I'm not buying that the signatures were forged. Any reasonable person would conclude that the signatures came from different people with the same name. After all how many Smiths do you think live in Indiana.

Just because John Smith appears on several different petitions doesn't mean those signatures were forged. It simply means that there was more then one John Smith in Indiana who signed a petition.

It's obvious that the reported went through the petitions looking for multiple people with the same names who signed different petitions and then tried to unethically claim that because the signatures didn't match they were forged.

To prove this I selected several of the names that the authors of the article claimed were forged because the signatures appeared on different petitions and did a white pages search in Indiana on those names. As suspected I found at least several dozen people listed with the exact same names.

If there are 20 John Smiths in Indiana all 20 are entitled to sign what ever petition they want and obviously their signatures won't match. On the other hand if all 20 signatures did match then we would have a problem.

Roy, Hillary won that primary, so how did it effect the General Election of Pres. Obama, and how is it that "Obama's team actually did not legally meet the qualifications to be on the primary ballot in Indiana in 2008, but forged signatures to get the minimum needed." if you can not supply any further evidence that "Obama's team"were the cause of the possible petition fraud. Spin, baby Spin.

Blaze, with two election commisioners, I believe this is a small population county, and probable overworked. Yes, they may have overlooked some signature's but to believe this is wide spread fraud, is wrong. I am sure the county will look into this and assume all responsibility and correct it, if that is the case.

There appears to be no further follow-up by the South-Bend Tribune at a later date.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/18/indiana-lawmaker-holder-absent-on-primary-petition-fraud-case/.

Here is the link to the FauxNews article. Notice the headline, accusing Obama/Holter of ignoring the subject. Later it states that the Federal government has no jurisdiction in State primary petitions, which is correct. Reading FauxNews is like reading the National Enquirer.

The county has not finished their investigation, or the State, but FauxNews and the Repug. Congressman want to know why the Fed's are not involved. Go figure that one out.

Couldn't the same exact thing be said for requiring people to register to vote. Think of all the people that have to go out of their way to register to vote. Oh the horrors of it. Oh the injustice. Millions are disenfranchised by the requirement to register to vote. Why doesn't the AG strike down all laws requiring people to register to vote?

Jim, you may be comparing apples and oranges, as Roy has. Again there are laws in place to protect from fraud. These laws are granted to the States, in the case of primary elections, and to the Federal government in the case of voter registration and national voting. This has been in effect for decades, not just for a short time.

The article in the SouthBend Tribune is a report of supposed abuse, and the proper authority is investigating. When they release their findings anyone should be able to inform themself, until then it makes no sense to conjecture "why the Federal government is not involved".

The Federal Ag has no legal authority to strike down any law, but has the authority to enforce the law that is under their jurisdiction. That is not the case in Indiana, as explained in the articles listed above.

Also, Roy's first link, if read properly states that the three persons involved in voter fraud were found guilty and punished. There is no mention of hundreds of others who were not found or prosecuted, yet that is the message Roy is trying to spin.

Roy has had one of those "moments".

How do you discover the fraud if you are not allowed to ask for ID or proof of citizenship?

I could go in and vote as my mother, and seems like it would be illegal for them to question it, or ask me for ID to prove it. So after my mother passes on, I will start getting two votes because it will be illegal for them to ask me for ID to prove who I am. I will also register my dog, and again it will be illegal for them to ask me for ID to prove that I am my dog.

My illegal immigrant gardener can register to vote, and they cannot question him about ID or his citizenship. So how will they discover that he is not voting legally?

Each polling place has two poll judges, one from each party and may have more if independents submit their choice. They are the people you check in with first, you sign your name at the registry in front of them, they compare it to their voter roll, which you are not shown. If any of the polling judges find issue you are required to show a driving license, State I.D. to prove your identity.

The question here is requiring all people to show a photo I.D., even if their signature matches their voter roll signature. Anyone trying to vote twice in the same precinct would have to know the signature of the registered voter, address, and pass as a different person.

If this is not the case in your voting precinct, you should point this out with prove to your County election Commission, they represent both party's equally and it is their jurisdiction to investigate.Hope this helps.

the rules for voter registration are prove of u.s. citizenship, and I believe that prove is differant in each State, but would include S.S. card, again signed, or other documents by State.

SS (social security card) is, by law - not an ID and should not be used as such.

Bob....You may have described your local voting situation....but it varies from state to state.....Here we can only vote by mail....and they are discussing computer voting....no checks at all....In a recent election we had over 3000 votes (that they later found) from prisons and dead people.....It turns out that prisoners and dead people are overwhelmingly democrat liberals....

Beowolf, thanks for pointing that out. J.A. you have a issue with the law that was established in your State, not a Federal issue, unless the State believes the fraud was substantial,I believe, and they are asked to come in for their investigation. Discrimination in voter registration, petitions,and voting will fall under the Federal Law, or Rights granted to the Federals by the Constitution. This is my understanding of the issue. Some are comparing apples and oranges as far as who regulates voting petitions, registration, and voter discrimination or fraud.

Back to Roy's assertion, State's are granted certain responsibility as in petitions, and the Feds have no responsibility to intervene, unless the issue of discrimination is apparant. Obama had not won the primary in Indiana, Hillary or anyone did not substantiate how this discriminated them, or show a loss. Therefore the Feds have no jurisdiction. Faux News can hype their cause, but they admit the Feds. have no jurisdiction. Of course FauxNews has to quote a Obama Representative of the Justice Department, so the fantasy of collusion can continue.

Sam....no, what he's say is most Obama haters are racists. Maybe you are a racist, maybe you're not. Well, even if your are or aren't.....tuff nutz. But you certainly give one pause by your judgmental, condescending pig talk

pee wee.....that's hilarious coming from a political line of thinking that supports the notion corporations can make unlimited contributions to election campaigns-talk about 'buying votes'. Your level of cognitive dissonance is alarming.

Sam....no, what he's say is most Obama haters are racists. Maybe you are a racist, maybe you're not. Well, even if your are or aren't.....tuff nutz. But you certainly give one pause by your judgmental, condescending pig talk

Your the one with the racist attitude, its a fact you need a photo ID to do anything in this modern world, if you dont have one your options are severely limited. So by saying most minorities dont have photo IDs.....

For christs sake you cant even make a withdrawal from your bank account without the teller asking for a photo ID..

I smell wet re-reg.

Sam, there's plenty of times I make withdrawals from my bank account without a photo ID. It's because I do business with a small personal bank where they know their customers. And I'm sure there are plenty of others like me.

Nobody makes withdrawls

without ID

I do. I just show a card with my account number on it and it does not have a photo. I am not asked to present one either.

Maybe if you used a local bank that you visited frequently, you would be treated in a personal and professional manner too. Why should they ask for my ID? I am there at least a dozen times a week.

Justoljoe- the vote booths only open every 2 years, most likely you stop by your bank at least once a month. If you smell like cat litter they might remember you if you stop less often. Here comes Cooter Brown let him to the front of the line.

Mexican citizens need ID to vote in mexico but not here. For all those crying racism minnesota (mostly white) convicted 113 "people" for voter fraud in 2008. Minnesota’s 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, “ineligible voter knowingly votes” under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

Thats just one state, without ID laws catching people will be as accurate as saying only those caught speeding ever speed. A dozen just got caught near atlanta last month strangely enough they where all black.

Mike R: I bank with one of the largest banks in the world, and I do not show PHOTO ID to make a withdrawal. As long as I have my ATM card (which does NOT have my photo) I can withdraw money -- and if someone who is not me showed up with my ATM card and PIN, they'd be able to take money from my account. And no, I'm not kidding.

Hey, let Holder loose, he'll guarantee the election.

A Photo ID is required in order to vote here in Hawaii. Hawaii is as Blue a state as there is. What the hell do they have to hide in that the Democrats fight so hard against every attempt to make people provide proof of citizenship? If that don't stink to you, you must be here illegally or dumber than a bag of rocks.

Lani, however, in Hawaii, if you have no photo-id, you can still vote IF you can recite your date of birth, and address (confirming it matches the poll-book info) as per §11-136.

Orange, considering what's on offer on your obvious side (why they exclude Huntsman I don't know), it's a resounding yes!

I'm tired of all of the dead people voting. They find all of these fraudulent votes after the election but do nothing about it. Time to stop it.

No, Rich

Apparently you didn't hear what happened to Hilary in Texas

Apparently in Minnesota it is acceptable to have more votes cast in certain polling places than the number of people that actually signed in.

Apparently you haven't noticed that people managed to vote in BOTH New York and Florida on the same election day in 2000.

We already have several forms of ID required in ohio. Believe it or not you could present a utility bill.

Very good point. Except the Democrats, through their criminal AG are trying to keep these people on the voter registration whether they are legal or not. If you believe that it is not about keeping their jobs in Washington, then you have a very bad case of the naives and need a reality check.

Mike, I work at a credit union and although you do need some sort of ID to open an account, the majority of people who do withdrawals don't show ID because either we know them (which is most of them) or they know the security code linked to their account. Most of our customers either come in all the time or they use debit cards for withdrawals. So, sir, you are "full of it"

Hate to break it to ya Rich but anyone too lazy to get identification (or the new voter registration with photo) will be to lazy to vote. Hell, they are probably to lazy to even bother to register to vote.

I see NO way that law can effect minorities in an unfair way. That is the silliest thing i have ever heard. In fact, it amazes me that we dont already require photo ID to vote. What other way could we prevent fraudulent voting (hello Florida Democrats, Im pointing at YOU).

Hey Linda, show us some proof that dead people are voting. I know you have personal knowledge of the dead voting, don't you ? You just come forward and name those dead voters and we'll kill all of them.lol

look at acorn denny

looks like moonshiner has some real proof there...probably heard it on Rush so it has to be fact...

Trying to claim this is an attempt to keep people from voting for Obama is pure Horse Dung. People can vote for whoever they want, just get an ID. If you are too stupid to get a photo ID you are too stupid to vote. Before you say it costs too much, in My state a State issued Photo ID only costs $5, thats less that the last crack rock they bought.I suppose you will next claim they cant read good enough to apply for a Birth Certificate, well if thats beyond them , so isnt reading whats on the ballot. Anyone that ignorant has no right having a say in who is President.if they havent made the effort on thier own to improve the paperwork they need, thats just plain LAZY.

Dubsie - You clowns are pathetic in your spinning the issue. And I'm to believe the Bank gave you a ATM card without knowing who you are, or you proving your identity in the first place? As pathetic as your rationalizing is, humor me some more.

The only persons that are allowed to vote in our elections are required to be citizens (legally) of the United States. If one cannot show proof of citizenship they deserve no other action than to be turned away from the polls. A citizen casting their vote at a polling place is to be respected for exercising their right to vote. An illegal alien attempting to cast an illegal vote is not to be respected in any way. The polling places should have facilities for investigating, arresting and deporting such law breakers after their prescribed term of incarceration.

The issue of voter fraud, such that it is, can be most effectively addressed at the time of registration. Once you are registered with the state, you are not required to carry your voter registration card to the poll(s). Instead, you are asked to identify yourself by verifying basic information such as your full name, your address and that's about it. It is the job of the Registrar to ensure that only registered voters enter the booth. It should not be the responsibility of any American citizen to be made to purchase a separate ID that could easily be stolen and modified much like drivers licenses all too often are modified or counterfeited. There is no proof that voter fraud is rampant enough to warrant such a measure when, clearly, IDs aren't fool proof to begin with. It's a "feel good" measure meant to appease certain demographics and to disenfranchise the others. Surely the Republican base can come up with something a little more meaningful that is also in compliance with the Constitution.

And how is that "Registrar to ensure that only registered voters enter the booth" to do that job you so speak of. If it's so unconstitutional to ask someone for a form of "documentation" to prove your LEGALITY in being LEGALLY here in this country in the first place? And the total disregard and violations of the constitution to others in being here ILLEGALLY somehow doesn't matter anymore. I do believe the Iimmigration Dept. and all the other governmental Departments are all to willing to replace that lost green card or other form of identity document that immigrants had received when becoming LEGAL into this country. And that supposedly became such a burden to replace Pryor to election day... Give me a break. What spin! WHAT A JOKE!

Andrew: Thank you for your posts. Factual, with sources, a winner each time.

Minnesota Majority appears to be bipartisan, but it is not. Check that out. The voter fraud was committed by felons, not knowing they were not eligible to vote.

This whole voter suppression issue reads like an FBI or CIA sting. Get a very hungry person into a room telling him not to eat any food, but a juicy beef on weck sandwich on the table. Boing! Entrapment.

BTW, this voting issue, along with stomping on the Unions, along with the song and dance of balancing states' budgets, along with taking over towns that are in default within states - replacing elected officials with "their own" well heeled people, passing state legislation that intrudes on women's health issues, attacking schools and teachers to push "their own" agenda of religion, the privatization of state built utilities - all brought to you by ALEC, a Big Money funded, well webbed repub/tparty organization. There's more, read up on it.

This is the tactic being used by the Republican governors and their minions to try to suppress the Obama vote and get who ever is the nominee elected from the list of clowns they call presidential contenders. It is about time the Justice Dept. corrects these new laws.

No, it's to keep the Demolibtardic party from stuffing the ballot boxes full of illegal aliens, convicted felons, the mentally ill and dead people who suddenly come back to life everytime there's an election. That they're not just going to take whoever shows up's word for it anymore.

We need to have a National ID card. Plain and simple.

The national ID card is in the health care bill, it will hold all your personal information, plus medical facts and also trade information with the IRS, this card will let you know what doc, medical facility and also what procedures you qualify for. It's already in the works, so the gov. depts. can trade all information they have about you, to control you and take your money, food, water and guns.

Watch out for floride in your drinking water, it is proven to cause you to vote socialist.LOL.

The national ID card is in the health care bill, it will hold all your personal information, plus medical facts and also trade information with the IRS, this card will let you know what doc, medical facility and also what procedures you qualify for. It's already in the works, so the gov. depts. can trade all information they have about you, to control you and take your money, food, water and guns.

Yeah well since we can't control our borders (or aren't willing to control our borders) then we may have no choice.

Too often people take voting for granted and for anybody to say voting fraud doesn't exist in this country really has a hole in their head and it's leaking. The "hanging chad" nonsense of 2000 should have been a wake-up call.

For example:

//www.nytimes.com/1994/02/19/us/vote-fraud-ruling-shifts-pennsylvania-senate.html

And with he growth of computerized voting, a new wake up call is on the horizon.

//vote.nist.gov/threats/papers.htm

What a shock. Typical Democrat strategy: Make it easy for illegal aliens, felons, deadbeats, and all the welfare puppies to vote multiple times in order to get elected. Obama and the Democrats have to be the most crooked scumbags this planet has ever seen.

What stops anyone in SC from getting a photo ID to enable them to vote?

Typically the cost, Alvie. Getting a photo Id is not free. Getting a copy of your birth certificate (if one even exists) is not free. Someone has to pay for it. The real objective here is to make it as difficult as possible for the poor (read that, persons most likely to vote Democrat) to vote.

Oh you betcha. EXPENSIVE to get a certified copy of your birth certificate which EVERYONE should have regardless. Mine cost 6.00. Any old excuse to claim the "other side is cheating" right? God you far left liberals are just as bad as the Tea Party idiots. You don't get your way on EVERYTHING then it's NAME CALL and HATE. Both sides extremists make me want to puke.

Duh...Alvie...Money and transportation..Also it is literally a "poll tax" if you have to pay the government to vote, which I'm suprised none of you alleged "constitutional experts" have realised yet. Not everyone lives in the city with busses cabs and subways they can't afford....Now if one of you "small government" clowns, would care to explain how Voter I.D. laws jive with your "Government is the devil" ideology, I would LOVE to hear it...Actually...save it, I'm tired of your hypocracy thanks...The funny thing is I have heard some conservatives go on further about how the state can just provide I.D.'s for low income folks...How does THAT fit into your narrow fear fueled hatred of collectivism and socialism? Answer: Oh yeah, it's that pesky hypocracy again...sucks being the opposite of what you pretend to be doesn't it? Or are these facts being confused and associated with "liberal bias" again? You know what causes liberal bias?...Conservative hypocracy. I find it hilarious that those who claim to be the "Champions of democracy and the constitution" will do anything they can to stifle and circumvent it.....

And a lot of older people were never given a copy of their birth certificates (if their parents even had one.) I was born in a hospital in one country but was raised in another county (on a farm five miles from a town that was 15 miles away from the town where the hospital was located.) A lot of older people, and even some younger ones, are in that same position. For some, they may even be living in a different state (clear across the country.) Since you have to report in person to the office of the registrar of births, that can be difficult and expensive to do. I think in OH, all of those records have now been transferred from the local county recorder's office or health department to the state capital. Can you imaging having to travel 3-5 hours to get to that office to request a copy?

No I can't imagine. I had my identify stolen in California. I was born in Kansas. I had nothing to prove who I was to satisfy having a new birth certificate. I contacted the registrar's office in Wichita Kansas, told him the circumstances, provided him with details on my birth certificate than no one would know, he gave me an address and I sent him 18.00 for three certified copies. I was 55 at the time and in a week I had my birth certificates. So no I can't imagine. Jesus you people will use any excuse. We should have a national I.D. card is what we should have.

How about a microchip implantation as that national ID? Oops, even those chips could be forged, right? Any form of ID (including birth certificates) can be stolen or forged and used to obtain a voter registration. Since most election boards don't cross-check from one locale to another (or state to state), how do you know that someone somewhere else hasn't registered to vote using YOUR ID. After all, you did indicate that your identity was stolen.

Followed by the religeous right screaming about the "Mark of the Beast" and "666".... Do we REALLY need to open that can of worms?

They give free ID's for those who cannot afford one. The Democrats want a million laws and restrictions until it comes to a law that may keep their Unions and Illegals from stealing elections.

I'm sure every CITIZEN eligible to vote right now has a form of picture ID, as you must have them to buy cigarettes, liquor, ebt, food stamps, rent living quarters, drive car, get treated at a doctor's office or hospital, fill prescriptions, etc, etc.

This administration's motive for blocking a voter fraud law is not for the benefit of the CITIZENS, but for illegal votes. Illegal immigrants are being protected and coddled by this admin, treated better than the citizens of the United States that pay their wages. It's as if Holder has declared war on the citizens of the United States. Blocking this voter ID law has DISENFRANCHISED the CITIZENS of this country!

Well that lets out the democrats.

Let out of where?

Oh, you meant leaves, didn't you? It helps to have a basic understanding of what you're typing when you're trying to insult a group of people.

You're welcome.

Mexican citizens need ID to vote in mexico but not here. For all those crying racism minnesota (mostly white) convicted 113 "people" for voter fraud in 2008. Minnesota’s 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, “ineligible voter knowingly votes” under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

Thats just one state, without ID laws catching people will be as accurate as saying only those caught speeding ever speed. A dozen just got caught near atlanta last month strangely enough they where all black.

So what about the 93 year old resident of a nursing home, who may have been in the facility for the last 10 years... born in a farm house... doesnt have a bank account, hasnt driven in 20 years... They may have had a stroke, they may be physically disabled, but they have their faculties. Would you disenfranchise them?

They may be your parent or grandparent. They probably will vote Democratic. But because they dont have a photo ID or possibly a birth certificate, they dont get to vote.

I have to raise my voice and say NO! We should not and cannot disenfranchise these Americans because they dont fit into the "perfect citizen" model of the GOP.

Hey Antitrust you are an idiot. I have 7 children and they were born in 4 different states. Our house burned down which inside was personal papers and all I had to do was fill out a form for each state that the children were born in and mailed it in. In less than a month I had all new birth certificates for all of my children.

Also I was working in New Mexico in the last election and after he won found out that 6 of the undocumented Mexicans voted for Obama and said it was easy.

Please enlighten me as to how this law would stop anyone one from voting who is legal?

Steve, so, if we have 113 convictions in 2008, and other than that, the DOJ registered 53 other cases in years prior, then this is not a serious issue, is it?

Oh, and what you fail to mention is that the people convicted had valid photo-id's. They were felons, and registered to vote and then voted.

Photo-ID laws didn't stop them and wouldn't have.

The Religious right will not accept this. If you understand the technology and lack of trustworthiness of pollititians then you would never bring that one up. Someday, the implanted chip will come though - prototypes are being tested.

What we need is a system of one vote for person, not the opportunity for governement to track your life and movement via GPS.

Question for you PJAM :How many rich blacks do you know ? How many live in Alabama, South Carolina, Texas, Mississippi and Florida to name a few states ? And I'am talking about the rural areas of the state. Would you say there are a lot more rich blacks and Hispanics then rich white folks in those states ? Now, don't you think the cost might impact the non-whites a lot more then the white folks ? It's not racism, it's the facts.

So far from what I have read, no one has shown how requiring a photo ID is a hardship that restricts ones right to vote or is even discriminatory.

I am truly sorry people. If they cannot afford the necessary paperwork that is required to represent that they are, in fact, legal citizens, well, there isn't any rocket science being employed here. If they cannot prove themselves to be legal citizens and of voting age, they should not be allowed to cast a ballot. There is absolutely nothing complicated about that. It is, after all, the law.

All of you are bigots. Who here would not have racist thoughts if I got on the floor of an airplane and bowed toward Mecca and prayed during a flight!

To WindowMobileWASFIRSTAPPLEIDIOTS:

What?!

Vinecity: How about a "stupid" added to your selections?

I am 70 yrs old and a "senior citizen". I have a valid driver's license, an up-to-date passport, and a proven birth certificate. Why would this keep me from voting?

Pretty arrogant Alvie to think your circumstance sets the standard.......men!!!

My wife was born in Merced, CA, near Castle AFB. Back in the mid-60s the hospital where she was born burned to the ground. The building along with patient records, birth records, vital statistics, etc. stored in the hospital's basement at the time were lost. We had considerable difficulty obtaining a certified birth certificate from the State in order to obtain a passport. We managed to get it done, but it was expensive. Now consider the poor, who might have been born at home and don't have a birth certificate anywhere. Those folks still work, pay their taxes, take care of their families and serve their country with honor. Would you deny them the right to vote?

I'm 65, have a birth certificate, a driver's license AND a state non driving I.D. (which I got when my identity was stolen and I had to start over.). I don't get you people claiming that mass amounts of people are responsible enough to get a voters registration card and vote but not responsible enough to have ONE single piece of verifiable identification. That's just BS.

You have been fortunate, Robert....Try it while black. It may sound like BS to you, but there is a whole other reality outside your life experience.

Is it, Robert? Because you SAY so? Forgive me if I don't accept your word. I respectfully disagree. Let's get back to the point of the article, shall we? When we go in to vote, we are cross referenced against 2 different voter registrar record with our confirmed address and have to sign off. Do you contend that any schmuch can just walk in off the street and cast a vote? Are you even registered?

JT- Is it because you say so as well, sorry I do not accept your word either and respectfully disagree as well.

When you go to vote and you sign a piece of paper and its compared to a signature which can be forged. Its not the same as a picture ID.

Yes I am registered.

Proof of forgery currently being tried and convicted:

http://saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/21/news/doc4ef1f3f649de9801728371.txt

http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/22/charles-white-indiana-secretary-of-state_n_1166341.html

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/minnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html

http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/23/the-voter-fraud-hall-of-shame-milwaukee-voter-fraud-conviction-makes-acorn%E2%80%99s-2010-total-at-least-15/

http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/10/two-more-felony-vote-fraud-convictions-in-milwaukee/

http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mississippi-naacp-leader-sent-to-prison-for-10-counts-of-voter-fraud/

To say it doesn't happen or is none existent is a lie.

Jerry and Robert are right!!!!!!!!!!

copy and paste link

Just listen to the Union guy below.

Top Union Official Caught on Tape Discussing Voter Fraud

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NuLVvVb4oc

SEIU Voter Fraud

//nlpc.org/stories/2010/11/11/harry-reid-re-election-likely-due-seiu-ballot-fraud

Acorn Fined for Voter Fraud

//www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=332061

""""""Judge Mosley said that if an individual, as opposed to a nonprofit corporation, had been before him, he would have ordered that person to serve 10 years behind bars.

"And I wouldn't have thought twice about it," he said.

ACORN has made a "mockery" of America's electoral process, the Las Vegas Review-Journal quoted Mosley saying. "This isn't a banana republic.""""

Wisconsin City Caught Destroying Ballots

//www.punditpress.com/2011/04/wisconsin-city-caught-destroying.html

//www.punditpress.com/2011/04/evidence-of-wisconsin-voter-fraud.html

There are tens of millions of illegals in this country and we give their children citizenship even though there are laws on the books that forbid criminals from profiting from their crimes. Now they can vote. I disagree with Mosley. This is a banana republic.

Jerry, you didn't even read the links you provided -- did you?

Minnesota did lead the country in voter-fraud convictions.

What you didn't notice, because you thought that nobody would check is that photo-id laws didn't and wouldn't have stopped those convictions. They were felons that registered to vote and then went to vote (even though there are laws prohibiting voting by felons).

So that really was a bogus claim.

Oh, and it was 113 cases, so as the MOST egregious example, it seems that this isn't actually a problem. And if it were, it's not a problem that the current laws would fix, now is it?