it was a stupid thing to do; born out of frustration and in country for to long; they will be severely reprimanded, but look at the up side, they may pull them out of a no win, war.

Granted they are "kids" and did something very stupid and disrepectful, BUT we can't just sit by and say...awwwwww..boys will be boys...or those darn kids...the point of their training to to teach strenght, self control and responsibility. I don't think this is worthy of anything harsh, but for them to be men, stand up and say they are sorry for what they did , be repermanded properly and lets try to move on with possible peace agreement and get the hell out of there.

Sorry but these are not kids! They are men who have been trained in the military. Just as they want respect then they ought to give it. As for Perry, I wonder if someone had done exactly that to one of his family members who had gone off to war. He would be applauded and furious I'm sure. So Perry if this is your outlook on International relations you'd better forget running for President! BTW, I'm just as appaled at Perry's reaction as I am to those men who did this awful act. Disgusting and they do not belong in the military if this is how they are going to represent the USA!

Ah but no good deed goes unpunished in the US today, most people are punished as criminals, put in jail and generally have their lives and careers ruined - this is what the US is all about today (or at least what the special interests want it be about ). Its big business - we need more jails, more lawyers, more justice system, more health care therapists, more drug companies, more meal prep companies- it goes on and on! If we cut back on these things we'll be in danger of ending the charade.

Nothing new here. Except for the electronics.

Talk to a veteran who served in the pacific during WW2.

Or Korea, or Viet Nam.

Its called war. If you don't like it work to end it.

Just don't blame the warrior.

And remember the USA still tortures, UCMJ, Constitution, Treaties be damned.

Yup. Just kids. With guns. That we have trained to kill.

Funny how they are mature enough for THAT duty, but just "kids" otherwise.

They must've been absent on the do-not-pee-on-the-dead-and-film-it training day.

yeah. lets talk about who is a criminal and who is not. lets start with cheney, rove, wolfowitz, rumsfeld, and the other half dozen neo con monsters under dubya.

"Kids"? 18 and 19 year olds are legal adults; they vote, sign contracts, marry, enlist in the military. As adults they are responsible for their actions -- whether noble or criminal or disgusting.

WalkAwayOKdotcom - Talk to a veteran who served in the pacific during WW2.

Or Korea, or Viet Nam.

Its called war. If you don't like it work to end it.

It's been a war crime since 1949 to mistreat the dead, and it's always been prohibited by the army field manual (even by the Blue Book of the continental army) as well as the UCMJ.

"Dishonorable discharge" and "war crime" aren't good things to have on your resume when you're out looking for a job in the civilian world, after you've gotten out of the USDB at Leavenworth.

So to follow your logic;

Corporal "Schutz-Staffel" is a war criminal, DD.

Corporal Hitler Retires from office, writes books and clears bush in Texas.

If you give the order or even allow the atmosphere that promotes a crime you should be held accountable.

It's Un-American to prosecute the bottom unless you start at the top. IMHO.

BoredwithsameO - It's Un-American to prosecute the bottom unless you start at the top. IMHO.

Actually that's an American tradition.

And the orders regarding treatment of the dead have been very clear for a long time. Just because other people aren't prosecuted doesn't mean these guys shouldn't be.

In every public forum I've read, watched, or listened to, the overwhelming majority of Americans responded that the Marines should be given a little slap on the wrists...at most. I agree with them; war is an ugly business....too bad!

in the photo it shows that one of the kids was balding .. of course some kids do lose their hair early .. Santorm recently said Obama was wrong to condemm terrorism when an Iranian scientist was murdered .. I guess according to Santorum and other GOP wanna be presidents .. one terrorist is a good person while another terrorist is an evil person.. depending on who is being terrorized and murdered .. didnt the Bible say Murder is wrong .. maybe Santorum reads a different Bible .. one that says Murder is OK depending on motive

Kids, criminals, it doesn't matter: Perry wants to cut their veterans' benefits regardless.

I guess this means Perry wouldn't mind kids peeing on the corpses of his family and friends.

Why wait until they're dead?

followers too guys??

With Perry and some Republicans always so worried about how we "train" our people to be lazy and irresponsible... he sure tolerates some totally deplorable behavior. So we say "kids will be kids"? What is that telling our other soldiers? What is that telling our young at home? What does it say to the rest of the world? What does it say about Perry? What's it say about posters like retiredcoastguard?

It says a lot.

Well it goes back to the saying : If you can't stand behind the troops, stand in front of them, PLEASE" People need to think about standing behind our men/women really does means.

LMarc T don't worry i fear the Marines will be punished . What bothers me is people like you feed off this i could care less about the rest of the world thinks most of which would be speaking German if it were not for the our men in uniform.

BTW Michelle Obama at least agrees with you America is mean . To which i say we have a right to be.

There is nothing civilized about war. It will turn the nicest kid. All of you ranting about their behavior remember YOU sent them into hell now you blame them for becoming what you don't like. You should never have sent them there if you don't have the stomach for war. To you it's perfectly OK for them to blow the faces off their enemy with high powered weapons, but not to piss on the enemy. Good Grief.

Sometimes I feel that Americans do not deserve the soldiers that protect them.

You send these young people into another Vietnam and expect a different outcome.

Insanity is what its called.

Shame on us for allowing this to happen.

I'm not surprised at some of the comments from the right wing crowd who seem to think that this behavior is okay or at least deserves kid glove treatment. Or that it's somehow okay because afterall it's war and well, war is ugly.

In this day and age where its so easy to record events and upload for all the world to see, it is incumbent on warfighters to behave in a professional manner and to consider the ramifications of having events such as this broadcast for all the world to see.

I know that this is a concept lost on the right wing lunatic fringe who couldn't give a horse's patoot what the world thinks of our soldiers peeing on corpses, but such acts only reinforces negative peceptions of Americans and invites similar acts on our own casualties.

Rick Perry is a mindless twit who has demonstrated repeatedly that he has no grasp of details and is capable only of pandering to voters with mindless blather. His campaign is dead, thank God.

I thought it was Obama who wanted to take away their benefits Toasty, your spreading one sided rhetoric again. Some day you will wake up and see that most all politicians are in the game for themselves..Go Niners!

If these are kids, why are we sending them to kill and be killed?

These are Marines. The few, the proud, the ... well it appears the Marines aren't what they used to be.

Rick Perry is an imbecile. Would he offer the same excuse for a group of young Talibani filmed pissing on the bodies of some of our guys?

Gumps is correct

These soldiers have damaged any inroads that may have been made to the indigenous population support for the US presence.

Sort of a pathetic statement, coming from a man whom has served in the US Military and is therefore supposed to be familiar with and have at least a basic understanding of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and its conduct provisions.

More pathetic yet that the statement came from a man whom should, but apparently does not comprehend how this conduct by these men in the uniforms of the United States Military may well result in acts of violent retribution by enemies whom do not wear uniforms, against other Americans.

And more pathetic still that the statement came from a man whom believes he should be the President of the United States!

Perhaps the one thing which comes to mind which might be even more pathetic and demonstrate his lack of understanding that actions, and words have consequences would be a statement from this Texas Governor such as "Bring it on!"

Oh well. In less than two weeks the Governor will be out of the GOP race, and back in Texas where he is mostly just an embarrassment to the people of his state.

GOP voters have been urinating on Perry's campaign for the last three months. He just lacks the common sense to recognize that moisture he's feeling isn't the warm Texas rain he prayed for.

'PC101-3548820' wrote:

"I thought it was Obama who wanted to take away their benefits"

REPLY: If you are not just 'trolling', cite a source to support your statement and contention.

You are of course entitled to make up your own mind. But you are not entitled to make up your own 'facts'.

Robert in Oregon - Upon researching on the internet I believe I stand corrected, I believe I got skewed information from a right wing news source on this one without following up what Obama actually said. From what I see his statements about cutting vets pay was taken out of context and it is congress who wants to cut vet's pay and benefits but I could be wrong. No troll just skewed "facts" on this one. Happens to us all once in awhile, but my point to Toasty about picking sides I will stick by.

Very few people in the world can be classified as adults or mature. Even the most 'powerful' people in the world can not. Nearly everyone has an 8-year old child in them that will never leave, no matter how old they get. The only way to become what would be considered, 'mature,' is to let go of the ego. But for vast majority of people, that is as impossible a feat as one could ever imagine.

Ok leftwingers....we get it....this was wrong. A slap on the hand, apologize and a promise to never do it again should suffice. Hanging these young men out to dry for political purposes is WRONG. How many times has our enemies apologized for the way they mutilate our soldiers bodies and the bodies of the innocent caught in the middle of this fight?

I'm not saying what these soldiers did was right but lets put this in perspective. Can't stand hypocritical liberals who turn a blind eye to the what the enemy does to our people but practically $hit their collective pants when four American soldiers piss on the dead bodies of the enemy!

Spare us the psycho-babble.

If there is this 8-year old child inside everyone, that implies that there is an adult present. If you take your 8 year old into a china shop, you don't get to walk away without paying for damages if your child smashes something.

It's called "being responsible", people.

It's called "being responsible", people.

Who said anything about not holding them responsible? I realize you won't be happy until they are hung from their balls, but all I am asking for is some perspective on this. Get a freaking grip!

I joined the U.S. Navy when I was 18 years old and despite all of the mistakes I made, never came close to disgracing myself while wearing the uniform, nor much later in life when I joined the U.S. Army.

I sympathize with the situation these guys might have been in, but there is no way an honorable warrior ever commits such a disgraceful act, and they should have known that the fallout that might come from such actions would not only end their careers but might endanger fellow service members and civilians alike !!

I'm sorry that Governor Perry thinks of this as a "youthful indiscretion" but it is absolutely a serious violation of not only the UCMJ but the Marines' code of conduct. I don't consider the Marines involved men but they aren't kids either, and while morals and a sense of honor may not be fully developed in the late teens or early twenties, those values should be developed enough to understand such actions while in uniform are a wrong answer !!

Gov Perry comes from a state where if "Kids" the same age committed a crime he would have no problem punishing them, even if it meant a crime that called for the death penalty.

To be honest peeing on dead Al Quada member (under the guise of Taliban) is nothing to be upset about,.

What did they(Al Quada) do to out people in Mogadishu? Oh right chopped their heads off & dragged their bodies through the street.

I just hope the troops had HAMBurgers or PORK lion before doing this.

Kids in US military... if you are going to pee on your 'righteous' kill, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not let other kids videotape what you are doing!!! That is SO immature!!! Still, please remember: KILL KILL KILL is GOOD... it is patriotic, it is what we want you to do in those faraway lands, so that these BAD BAD brown people do not come to America to kill bankers in New York...

(sarcasm intended)

Wonder how many "kids" Perry is proud of executing.

I'm convinced that the only reason people listen to Perry anymore is to see what moronic garbage this idiot will spout next. All he is good for is a good laugh.

If these are kids, why are we sending them to kill and be killed?

In the words of dubya, "to bring them freedom"

Ok leftwingers....we get it....this was wrong. A slap on the hand, apologize and a promise to never do it again should suffice.

NYPeach, this is not a matter of "leftwingers" opinions, its a matter of decency and respect ... and following and enforcing the UCMJ that we are bound to regardless our political affiliation. Your comment shows just how you (and other posters) can be blinded and polarized by your political views without fully examining the issue and its potential ramifications.

The Supreme Court outlawed the Death Penalty for those under 18 when they committed their crimes, so ol' Foot in Mouth Rick hasn't been throwing the switch on any Juveniles.

IF we had brought them home after we finished the business there, this would no longer be an issue. Osama Bin Laden is dead. We are done, mission accomplished, time to bring the troops home!!!

Ron Paul 2012!!!

As far as war zones go , Ill take a kid with bad judgement over a liberal with bad aim any day .

But if these 'kids' lived in Texas (and were black), they could be sentenced to death. And Perry would support that...

They were 'kids' to Perry only because of their skin color.

No one has been charged yet. Of course not, did anyone go to jail for the masacre at Haditha? NO. So why would anyone get disiplined for pi$$ing on dead insurgents? They won't. It's a show that leaders need to exhibit so they don't pi$$ off the Muslim world anymore. After all, they seem to be getting sick of our suppossed "help."

these Taliban routinely cut body parts off of people including ears, nose, HEADS, I don't want to hear anymore about this pissing incident, people need to wake up to the realities over there or support getting out of that mess

Well as a proud member of the "right wing lunatic fringe", I think pissing on them was a great thing and couldn't give a rat's fukk what the rest of the world thinks.

The rest of your sentence clearly indicates that those 'quotes' are not needed whatsoever. Lunatic fringe indeed. When one feels that they can self-define as 'lunatic fringe' maybe one should evaluate their position a bit more thoroughly - because there is a reason it's called that.

these Taliban routinely cut body parts off of people including ears, nose, HEADS,

So we should stoop to their level of desecration? Should we throw out the UCMJ, Geneva Code, and our own sense of Honor for some sort of petty revenge and childish "but he stawted it!" argument?

Being a veteran myself, I find this disgusting, and these "kids" deserve nothing less than what the UCMJ calls for - and the punishments should be appropriate and scale as to the rank of the individual. There best not be any NCO's or Officers involved in this.

They are kids? That's interesting because if this had happened in Texas instead of Afghanistan, Perry would have executed them. Before the Supreme Court intervened Perry executed people for crimes comitted before the age of 18. Weren't these kids too?

This incident isn't consistent with "Duty, Honor, Country" or the Code of Justice of the military. Gov. Rick Perry's interpretation and dismissal of this behavior shows his lack of understanding of the roles of the military and the Commander in Chief in maintaining our defensive force. Perry just added one more reason why he shouldn't become the next President.

Agree..............18 year olds can be extremely STUPID @ times.......

If that's the case we shouldn't be giving them guns. 18 is either a kid who does stupid things or old enough to be sent to die for their country. We can't have it both ways.

'PC101-3548820' wrote:

"Robert in Oregon - Upon researching on the internet I believe I stand corrected ..."

REPLY: Well done, 'PC'. I wish that we all could find the strength of character to follow your example. An admirable response, and I thank you.

I just cannot understand why there is no mention of the Commander in Chief who authorized torture, pissed on the UCMJ, The Constitution, and ratified treaties yet have so much outrage against warriors who piss on their enemy after the heat of battle.

I like that statement. The US employs child soldiers?? Is that Perry's message??

They're old enough to bear arms and defend your sorry ass, but they can't legally buy a beer. What branch of service were YOU in?

They're old enough to bear arms and defend your sorry ass, but they can't legally buy a beer.

They defend no one. And they can't buy alcohol but they are adults. Not children. To call armed soldiers "kids" or "children" should be seen as disrespectful.

Some are more upset with p---sing on killers, than Americans being beheaded, or being drug through the streets. Court martial, article 15, and get over it. This not a big deal, these people hate us anyway, so what difference does it make? It is a war zone, not a playground.

Perry is not 50 he was born in 1950, so he is almost 62. He was a lot younger when he was flying C-130's in the Air Force. These Marines are just kids, but they are treated as adults and expected to act like adults. In Texas if you break a law and are over 17, not 18, but 17, you are tried as an adult. These guys should not have done this, but chit happens. The guy that really needs his ass kicked is the chithead with the camera.

Our dead soldiers get drug thru the streets and they never punished anybody for that. Leon panetta should be fired along with Clinton for showing more support for the enemy than our own troops. Same goes for John McCain he should be impeached for signing the NDAA bill. He is a Traitor.

Kids?

Since when does he consider the age of the offender? Napoleon Beazly was executed under Perry for a crime he committed at the age of 17.

http://www.txexecutions.org/reports/270.asp

What a phony.

Precisely because it WAS a war zone that rules of engagement have to apply. Shame on us for putting them in such unmitigated stress without profound reason, and perhaps they can get a PTSD defense. Many a "good" man has done bad things when totally stressed. However, the rules are taught for a reason BY the military. It is THEIR call, and the call of the Geneva convention. And incidently, the Geneva convention does not OK beheadings either. [I have to admit it would be "nice" if the Arabs would show a little more concern about that, but wrong is wrong, not boys will be boys.]

Article 15, like one of our troops got drunk and p--sed on another sleeping troop in a bed. He was busted to airman basic, and continued to a stellar career as an intelligence intercept specialist, reaching the highest level of an enlisted Senior Master Sgt. The cameraman should be article 15ed for stupidity.

A field grade or General grade Article 15 should be the punishment. If they, (the marines who did this act) make amends, and reform their ways, then let it go and move on.

My guess some of those Taliban corpses, if alive, could have been charged with Aggravated assault, Sexual assault, Rape, and First degree murder.

Hell I was in the war in WW II and seen and had to kill many people fighting on the other side but I or my man in my unit never treated dead bodies like these kids did,they should be punished,you just can not let this go and forget it. Some people say but the Taliban this and that,look here, we are the American Army or Marines and that's the difference,we don't piss on dead bodies.

Remember, these guys are governed by the rules of engagement agreed to by the United States. Those rules explicitly say that desecrating the body of any fallen soldier, ours or the other side, constitutes a criminal act. The idea that our country would allow any military personnel to defy the military code of justice is so outlandish I can hardly believe any person who has ever had a child in the military could countenance that idea. Besides there is also the biblical injunction that states clearly that we reap what we sow so it is not even good for the perp to be allowed to do this stuff. But these three showed such un-Godly behavior that they actually put the lives of our other military personnel in that area at risk at a much higher lever than usual. But what was the most ridiculous was the movie and publishing of this gross and stupid incident. I say, let the military give them a fair hearing but all who were involved need to hold accountable.

Harry-

look here, we are the American Army or Marines and that's the difference,we don't piss on dead bodies.

Yes. We do. And we rape and murder 14 year old brown-skinned girls, and then murder the family so they can't complain. And we rape, torture, and set dogs on prisoners. And the people not only excuse, but approve of it.

That's who and what the United States of America is now.

WW2 -- the people, the nation, the culture, the values -- that's history. This is the neo-USA. This is the country where people are so hateful, sick, and twisted that your toddler is not safe even in church. The country where people are so selfish and worried someone else might get something they don't get that no one even cares about quality-of-life anymore.

The neo-USA. Love it or leave it. */s

What am I talking about "your toddler is not safe even in church?"

Hell, your unborn child is not safe even in your womb. Some crazy, entitled rabid animal will cut it right out of your belly because she wants a baby to play with, or to sell to the sex trade.

That's where having no values whatsoever has taken us.

If they want to join the pissing-on-dead-bodies army they can go become merceneries in Burma. I thought this was the United States Marine Corps. My childhood hero, my next door neighbor was a Marine and he was our hero growing up because we thought they stood for something much greater than this.

bydog,

We're better than that! Our people are better than that! And, our UCMJ applies to our military personnel, not our enemy's personnel!

No excuses from a the excuse gaffe King, Rick Perry who proves his unfitness for national office every time he opens his mouth. There's a reason condemnations for this discpicable act is strongest from top military leaders...This isn't a "prank"...and these "kids" wear the military uniform of the United States. If they're not ready to be entrusted with the responsibility, then they shouldn't be there.

Yes, the Viet Cong and NVA were pretty sadistic. But they weren't the only ones. A friend who was in the battle for Hill 881, which was a ferocious battle with a lot of fatalities on both sides, took some trophies of his own. He (and other Marines) cut off an ear or two from several dead enemy soldiers and made necklaces out of them.

Incidently, the Marines took the hill at great cost in lives and injuries, but the minute they departed to their next mission the enemy immediately moved back in and re-occupied the strategic hill, where they had a great view of the surrounding countryside. There was a lot of frustration by our troops regarding the way the war was managed by our senior officers - particularly by General Westmoreland.

I doubt these Soldiers are kids anymore, not if they made it through basic training. And that is no excuse, period.

I agree with Russell. It isn't just in movies like Inglourious Basterds, my great uncle in WWII took German scalps and ears with a large bowie knife he carried. He wore a necklace made of ears. He was trained to not recognize the enemy as human beings, they were dogs who wanted to kill you so you do what is needed to stop that. I guess war is hell on several levels.

I have witnessed great acts of violence and depravity from innocent looking 19 year old marines, and I have seen wonderful acts of kindness from the same ones....

Combat is chaos and fear and anger to the likes no one can imagine who has not endured it. Some grow to like it, other are traumatized by it, some never survive it.

While I would never do anything like these Marines did, I probably did far worse in other aspects. I will not condemn those who suffer through the fight. If they are to be judged let it be by others who stood with them in the fire.

The whole mess reminds my of marlon brando's speech in apocalypse now....

We teach our men to drop fire on people...but wont let them write F*ck on their airplanes because its obscene????????

Russell, "incidentally" what was your entire point? You evidently weren't there probably because you weren't even a twinkle in your mother's eye. Even in the military somebody is in charge in this war (including Viet Nam). There is no replay button and no this isn't staring Sylvester Stallone.

There are rules of engagement and rules of conduct.

I support the troops. I served during Desert Storm/Shield. I understand war is hell. This still cannot be tolerated. The law is the law or we are no better than the enemy.

Jim, this is an article 15 offense, not a major criminal offense. Demote them one rank, and be done with it. Nothing more than giving the Capt. a middle finger.

Thank you for your Service to America.

Put the video cameras away they serve no good purpose.

Dasvet, then that is exactly what should happen. Base restriction, docked pay, and lose a stripe. Discipline is what makes or breaks a military.

I am thinking the military should apply the usual punishment for these behaviors but I do think your point is well taken.

I agree as well. I did some really idiotic things when I was that young... just because they're in a war, doesn't make them any less young.

I remember Viet Nam. I remember My Lai. I remember fragging, and many other atrocities. We should be better than that. Someone else's crime does not justify doing the same. If it did, the world would be chaos, worse than anything we experience now. Wrong is wrong no matter what side does it.

Perry is your typical conservative. It's not about America, or humanity, or civility. It's not about unity, pride, honor or principle. It's about misdirecting the unknowing, weak-minded individual. It's about stirring emotion and distorting the truth while warping and rewriting historical facts. It's about exploiting God and religion to justify a means to an end. It's about power, money, notoriety and how to get more and more and more at the expense of others. It's about winning for the party. That is the only thing that matters to the Conservatives.

tjohn_missouri

That cuts both ways, you basically stated my view of your typical liberal.

With that wacky ideal, can you imagine the discipline problems in our military if Perry were elected. The guy has no clear moral rudder that controls his value system.

Does the UCMJ apply to all combatants? I guess not, since when we piss on their corpses, they decapitate live soldiers and civilians. This is war, not some innane political contest. I say, kill them all, kill every one of them.

Perry, another Texas wanna be John Wayne, just George W....walking with their arms akinbo and bowlegged... it's beyond me how "W" was elected and KNOW this Texan won't be.......................

Apparently, you don't know anything about the UCMJ either. If you review the Punitive Articles of the UCMJ, you'll find that the only one that remotely applies here is Article 134, which is extremely vague. By no stretch of the imagination does this incident rise to the level of a general courtmartial offense. A formal letter of reprimand in each Marines file is more appropriate, possibly an Article 15 action. These are not slaps on the wrist; in the military such actions have serious impacts on rank, retention and promotion issues. However, a spur of the moment act of stupidity does not equate to a criminal act and does not justify handing these guys with dishonorable discharges and a felony record for life. Even an Article 15 allows them to resurrent their honor and their careers--or is too lenient for you for?

I like how Perry reverts to campaign mode in condemning Obama for this. Give it a rest, dude.

hat is the most tragic thing about reading this soulless support of something that is absolutely verboten in the US military code of justice. I am uncertain if there was not enough training in this ares of international law, or at the git go, these kids could not even comprehend that their action exposed our POWs to this sort of disgusting treatment. In essence these young people gave permission to our enemies to abuse our POWs in their custody in the same manner. My guess this sort of abuse will escalate to a much more intense level, though. And this dunderhead politician and the ditzy news reporter actually have given young recruits permission and/or cover for abusing US POW's caught in the future. Obviously both of these goofs showed very low level of values when they ended up egging on this disgusting behavior. I am hoping that they never have to face up to the fact that their point of view opened the flood gates of behavior towards our military so that some of their descendants will be the object of similar behavior and then, they will have not one leg to stand on the repudiate said behavior. Essentially these goofs point gives a flag of approval for anyone to treat their kids and grand kids the same way.

I just had to let you know that I absolutely agree with you. If these are "kids" then Perry shouldn't expect them to vote should he? The only people who could possibly take Perry seriously are the ones that voted him in as Governor of Texas.

These are young adults, young military adults & as such do know what they were doing was wrong & I'm including their superiors in this also.

warcrime? I don't think so, give them some sensitivity training so that they don't pee on the people they just got done filling full of bullets.

Allison--their "superiors" weren't there, certainly wouldn't have sanctioned their behavior, and your comment is nonsense. The only "superior" that would have been present is their squad leader or platoon sergeant, and I seriously doubt they were present either. This is no "war crime" and shouldn't be prosecuted as such. Get real.

There's always some form of leadership present... And they will be held accountable. By the way, I've never been on a mission where there wasn't someone in charge, be it squad leader or squadron commander.

U.S. military law and the Geneva Convention prohibit the desecration of bodies of people killed in war. Look it up.

Actually it is a war crime as specifically detailed in the Geneva convention and the US Military Code of Justice. And for Perry to give cover to this sort of behavior says not on thing about the military but it proves so indelibly how unfit he would be as Commander in Chief of our great country. He obviously cannot be trusted at all if he blabs his mouth like this. He is a shame on the military ethos of our party. I cannot recognize the oaf as a Republican at all.

Well said, Vivan. Thanks - I can't come up with any better words than repulsive and appalling - and I aim that at the marines and that despicable excuse for a politician.

That hatred was already there

The hatred has always been there. Geez those muslim bastards beheaded my people the first time the entered Europe in the moorish invasion of Spain. Real respect for the dead there. It hasn't changed since then.

Obama is the one who still has the troops there, I guess he is also a warmonger? Please don't try to rationalize your biased opinions.

vivian, you are an Obamabot anyway, so why are you involved in any republican candidate? You are in for a licking in November.

yeah, the Taliban just didn't have enough reasons to plant IED's, mount ambushes, and kill our guys at every opportunity by whatever means was handy. And NOW they do, right? Are you serious? Really?? The absurdity of some the remarks is astounding.

After Perry's un-Godly words on this issue, who will ever believe they could relax for one moment if their kid was in the military he commanded a COC? Either he would just overlook this disgusting behavior while giving signals it was fine, or he would ignore that he ever said any of these ignorant statements and prosecute them like the law demands. Either way, he would be a con man.

They are U.S. Marines, and its the Uniformed Code of Military Justice.

Demote them one rank, and be done with it. Article 15 is the answer.

What planet are you from? Have you EVER worn the uniform? I've been an officer in the Army for 22 years and still counting. We do NOT "take a course" on the UCMJ, unless we're a JAG officer (where do you people get this stuff??). We ARE acquainted on a working level with the general rules of engagement and Code of Conduct, neither of which address the issue of treatment of enemy dead. For that matter, the UCMJ doesn't address it either; the only passage that might is Article 134 in the Punitive Articles and it's extremely vague. It IS addressed in the Geneva Protocols, but we don't take a course in that either. Did the Marines know this was not sanctioned behavior? Of course. Should they be punished? Yes. Does this warrant a general courtmartial with felony charges and, if convicted, a dishonorable discharge and felony record for life? Hell, NO. For what, premeditated peeing? Jeez. Dasvet is right, Article 15 at MOST.

Perry IS a birdbrain in some respects, but this time he's right. The point he was making was to call for a rational, reasoned review of the situation and a punishment that matches the offense. That's all. An emotion-driven rush to judgement and an excessive punishment would do far more to ruin morale among our troops in the field than any harm this incident has done to our "image" with the Taliban or other Muslim extremists. In case no one has noticed, they don't much like us as it is. Yes, it was wrong, and these knuckleheads should be disciplined, but keep it in perspective. That's all he was saying, and what's wrong with that?

Well put Reliable Bob! I just wish Rick Perry would disappear. He is an embarrassment to us here in Texas! Thank God there is no way of him becoming President.

Fairly--Perry's remarks concerning the administration's response to this incident were not that far off the mark when you listen to Hillary's faux indignation and some of the other comments, but I agree he took it too far for political purposes. However, his call for a more rational and unemotional review of the incident, and a punishment that matches to offense is something any reasonable person should agree with. Forget politics, forget party affiliation, for that matter forget Perry--don't crucify these Marines for a spontaneous and momentary act of stupidity.

court martial, article 15 is the answer.

I agree Dasvet, now quit the copy&paste.

I swore off copy and paste long ago. Why isn't Article 15 the answer? Others post the same anti-military bs, over and over, so I am just reacting as they react.

Dasvet - I was kidding, I agree with you drop 'em a rank, cut some dough and let's move on.

Thanks, I misunderstood. This is a relatively trivial infraction, and should be treated as such. I, personally, would like the opportunity to kick the guy's ass that made this picture available. That is the crime.

Finally, two more voices of reason in a sea of hysteria. Thanks, Dasvet and PC.

Maybe it is OK then for the Taliban to piss on your son or daughter's corpse and have it posted on YouTube.

Are you a Taliban terrorist lover too?

The direct result of the idiotic solders actions will be the death of NATO forces or innocent civilians. You love our forces being killed?

jeffrey D: It's called being a member a civilized society, maintaining ethical standards, and not degrading ourselves to the level of the enemy. Grow up.

There will be more Marines pissing on dead terrorists.

You would too if you were there. I know I would. We did worse things than that in boot camp to people we didn't like when I was in the US Army.

And they too will be court-marshalled and pay for their ignorance and lack of moral turpitude.

Your comment about boot camp tells volumes about you as well. It's frightening that people like you ever get into the service. Again, grow up.

Its not an issue with the killing of the terrorists. We are in a War and the concepts of society are at the core of that war. We are fighting a medieval society in favor of an enlightened educated society. If our boys our pulling out their wankers and pissing on the dead, they are not showing the example we wish to put forward.

In the end, some young kid from the Midwest is going to go into a village to help the local population build a road or a school and he's going to get killed because some Taliban leader is going to have shown the shooter what American's are really like.

NO, its not okay. Its NEVER okay to act like a barbarian. You can't kill an idea you can only prove it wrong. And these four idiots are proving the Taliban right when they say Americans are immoral barbarians.

If you bleeding hearts feel that way about the Taliban terrorists than why don't you go join them.

Or let's just get the hell out of there so we don't have to subject these good people to being killed.

Seriously Jeffrey D, you're really just 8 or 9 years old, right? Come on, fess up... there's no other explanation.

You bleeding hearts have never served our country. Get off your ass and quit talking @!$%# and go join the Army, Air Force, Navy or Marines.

Ok, since you went there. I DID serve my country (11 yrs active duty with an unfortunate accident leading to a disability discharge, otherwise I'd still be there) and I DO think these 4 young marines were wrong. Was it an unfortunate, stupid decision? Absolutely. But when one joins the military service, as I'm sure you know, one is held to a higher standard. We become ambassadors of our country and our way of life. There are laws and rules and regulations. We don't get to pick and choose which ones we will follow and which ones we will not. Do I think that this was just a bunch of YOUNG marines with a serious lapse in judgement? yes. Does that excuse their behavior,? no. That doesn't make me a bleeding heart, it doesn't make me a "taliban lover" and it doesn't make me soft. It makes me respectful of the rules and regulations. Something, based on your comments about your behavior while in boot camp, you were not.

Jeffrey, great effor but to many people here HATE the military and HATE America. No matter what you say or what they do that HATRED is there deep. The communists are planted thick in our country today.

John they are getting killed everyday. We just buried one of ours last week. Do you think if we are polite thats not going to happen? Come back from Disneyland to the real world.

i think just maybe , maybe he didnt have a thing to do with 911....the sky is falling , the sky is falling with 911 ... lol

Jeffery, I beg to differ on your opinion that the "bleeding hearts" have never served. I am a 20 year Veteran of the Army. I am a registered independent who votes based on the issue, NOT a party line. I tend to be more liberal than conservative on most matters and I think what these Marines did was shameful. In the Army my core values are what I live by. They include Honor, Duty and Respect. NONE of these values are reflected in what these Marines did. We can make excuses about "they do worse to us" but as a Soldier I REFUSE to stoop to the same level as the enemy. Yes, we in the military are asked to do some pretty harsh things, but we still must maintain our humanity. If we stoop to the level of the enemy then we become the same as they are and our cause is no longer true. I constantly see derogatory comments on these blogs about the Taliban or Muslims and what they do. I see about how they have no respect for life, they are just animals and they deserve to be irradicated. Well, if we sink to their level aren't we the same animal they are? Don't we deserve to be irradicated for our actions also? Yes, people get caught up in the heat of the moment. We are only human, but we do know right from wrong. The rules and regulations are drilled into the military personel's mind. We KNOW there are consequences for our actions, so to say these Marines need to be let off with a slap on the hand is wrong. They are grown adult men who knew what they were doing was against the UCMJ. They knew if they were caught there would be consequences. The deed is done all that is left for them to regain their honor is to man up and take their licks. (whatever those licks may be) If you don't want to be punished under the UCMJ than don't violate it. It's as simple as that.

veggie, that is why an Article 15 court martial is the proper venue. These soldiers probably, just minutes earlier, were targeted by the Taliban bastards. Adrenaline was flowing like wine after a deadly military encounter. I think the cameraman should be punished, as he took advantage of a crisis situation.

Working Mom--well put and I agree. The only point I and others have made is that we need to fit the punishment to the offense and not overreact out of emotion and sanctimony. And Dasvet has a point about the even bigger idiot wielding the camera who posted this mess on the internet. I'm betting he's one unpopular Marine right now.

Dasvet I understand there may have been circumstances that we are unaware of which might have prompted this behaviour, but it does not excuse it. If an Article 15 is what is decided on as a proper punishment under the UCMJ for these Marines than I support that decision. I'm talking mostly to the people who believe this behaviour should just be swept under the rug. If we sweep one incident under the rug where does it stop? If we allow these Marines off without punishment that leaves the door open for more pathetic behaviour by our troops. I do agree with a poster who said this situation should NOT be used for political means. There is nothing political about this. Let the Marines handle there own. I have faith they will do the right thing.

Sniffle TX, the views expressed by Jeffery D Parks, above, prove your point!

Jeffery, you don't have to be a 'terrorist lover' to know that those 'terrorists' have mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters, just like our soldiers do. And many of those 'terrorists' are young persons who were talked into being 'terrorists' by fools like Perry, power-hungry politicians. When the enemy sees pictures like this, do you think they are filled with peaceful thoughts? No, their hearts are further hardened and they redouble their efforts. We will never see peace in the world when incidents like this continue to happen. And, isn't that what we all want, when all of this is over?

They are taught to follow orders, not to pull juvenile pranks that makes US look bad.

There is nothing wrong with pissing on dead terrorists.

GOD Bless the brave men and women that protect your sorry as s from the terrorists.

As the wife of a veteran and the mother of 2 active duty US soldiers I want you to know you are a complete idiot and know nothing about the matter. Yes, they are taught to kill and do it well but there is FAR more than that to a US soldier. My husband was Special Ops in Vietnam. My youngest son is a combat medic and my oldest son in an infantryman who literally is less than 10 days off the battlefields of Afghanistan. He is home because my husband almost died from an infected hernia surgery that went septic.

Every one of them is involved in many charitable activities, go to church and bluntly show one heck of a lot more compassion and understanding of their fellow man than you appear to posses. Can they kill? Yes and they are good at it. If that were not the case they would not be alive right now. They are however disciplined and effective at their jobs and yes killing is a part of their job. They live with the memories that do not go away. At 68 my husband still sees the faces of 57 men he killed. The question is how many more men came home because of him? That is the reality of the US soldier. Hard choices you will never understand Sniffle because you stand outside and judge that which you would never have the courage to dare.

If you don't like a war blame the politicians. If you don't like the actions of a few men who messed up blame the men but DO NOT disrespect all of those who served to protect our country while you sit in your warm home playing with your computer. The young men in the story did wrong and should be punished according to military law because that is the only way discipline can be maintained but the idiots like you need to think long and hard about what comes out of your mouth.

Oh and for the record a lot of men go to war for different reasons than you think and end up being far different men than you think. My oldest son was in love with a Packistani girl and it tore him up to see the young girls of Afghanistan having acid thrown in their faces for wanting to go to school. Before he enlisted he told me "Mom I have to go. When I look at those girls I see the faces of my future daughters and I can't stand aside an let that happen." My younger son went because there were no jobs and he wanted to finish college. My husband came home from Vietnam and devoted the rest of his life to service of his church and community to compensate for what he had to do to protect his fellow soldiers.

So Sniffler speaking as one tired old redneck woman who is short on patience with idiots until you have served and know what you are talking about you might want to keep your idiotic comments to something you actually know something about.

PJ you are absolutely right thanks to you nand your family, My family goes way back in defending this Idiots that have no respect for sacrifices our military has done and forever will live with, I would like to see these sissy la las go to another 3rd world country and live there if they dont like it here in the USA get the @!$%# out

I served, never in combat, but prepared to do so. Never heard the word 'scum' when referring to enemy soldiers or whomever we would have come up against. I was taught to kill them, because if I didn't kill them, they were going to kill me. When I left Parris Island, no one would have referred to me as a kid. Anything other than Marine and a man was unacceptable.

After my active duty time I remained a reservest in the Marines, I returned to active duty temporarily in the early 1980s to go to Lebanon (beirut). Before going ashore our task force commander (General Krulak-later commandant) gave us a no holds barred motivational speech prior to lift off talling us to leave mom-flags-apple pie behind because we were going into combat and there is no room in the mind for that. That was for peacetime and this is war. He said you will focus on killing. Killing the enemy and everything that walks,talks or breathes around him.

It ended with everyone banging rifle butts in unison on the deck and chanting "KILL KILL KILL" and we ran onto the ch46's like a football team taking the field...we landed like an amped up killing maching....ready to decimate anything and everything we saw.

What they tell young men in house is often a different stance than they have for the public. They send our young men off to war (like LBJ did me) and tell them to kill, strike fear, terrify and defeat the enemy.......then in public they act shocked if something offensive occurs.....

Sniffle--wipe your nose and engage your brain. No Soldier, sailor, airman or Marine is taught that the enemy is "scum". But demonizing the enemy and giving him less than human status is a common survival technique that every combatant in every army has employed since we went to war with clubs and spears. It allows us to carry out the very unnatural act of killing before we can be killed. And stereotyping these Marines the way you've done is lunacy. Read PJ's comments above--you might actually learn something.

Yeah right. They were in a heap of trouble when people were trying to kill them. It's hard to say that pissing on the remains of people trying to kill you is somehow in the same category as a threat on your life (which by the way, they are doing on behalf of the United States).

If I were them, I would think again about fighting to protect a country with priorities that include prosecuting and ruining soldier's lives over rather low level, benign mistakes. Too much risk - why bother?

I doubt they were following orders when they decided to film themselves peeing on dead Taliban.

Geez bobo, and jeffreyparks and azrancher, wake the hell up. I served this country for 20 years so if you don't like my opinion, quite frankly you can kiss my ass. What these Marines did is not 'low level or benign'. This will be used in the madrases to train more young people to be terrorists. Just like those idiots who took pictures in Abu Ghraib this will come back and bite us in the ass.

War is ugly, war is hell. It's kill or be killed and you never know when your number is up. But after the battle, you regroup and go back to base and get ready to do it all again. What you do not do is take out your frustration on the bodies of your enemies or on civilians in the area. There are laws and regulations in place at both our militarys level, and through the Geneva Convention, all civilized countries to prevent this from happening. The point many of you make is 'well the terrorists do it, why can't we?' The answer is that we are not fighting a civilized country, or any country for that matter. We are fighting an amorphous group of individuals who are not held to the rules as we are. But our armed forces and the men and women making them up are BETTER than that. We follow the rules and that's why these men will be punished, because in this instance, they were no better than the men they pissed on.

Oh Bo! Just say No! Have another hit

Jeff--valid points, and as someone with 22 years in and still counting if you don't like my response you can pucker up, too. Having said that, I agree with your basic premise. These jarheads screwed up, will be punished, but let's keep the punishment in perspective and make it fit the offense. This wasn't Abu Ghraib or My Lai, this was four guys fresh out of the adrenalin rush of a firefight that put their brains in neutral and did something stupid. Treat it that way.

jeff - One way they are better is they are still alive, Agdoc I like your thinking

I'm going to disagree Agdoc. Which would you personally find more offensive, pictures of your fellows being sexually humiliated or of their dead bodies being pissed on? Myself, I'd think the disrespecting of the dead was worse. You can't look at this as some fratboy prank because I guarantee you the mullahs and those crazy SOB's they strap into bomb vests aren't laughing...

Skookum--from your username I suspect you're somewhere in Wash. state, where I am unfortunately forced to exist until I can get the hell out of here and back to civilization and sunshine. Just so you know, there WAS a backdoor to the Alamo--the only time it was used was when more volunteers ran the Mexican lines to join the fight. Perry may be a doofus, but you're an ignorant clod. Wherever you're living, please stay there and stay the hell out of Texas. We have enough problems keeping Yankees and wetbacks out--we don't need white trash, too.

What, exactly, Ni&&erhead mean? So you are just another ignorant person, can't stay on topic, and has to spew your racist crap here for others to view it. Do us a favor and please find another venue to spew your crap, it is not wanted here!

Guily....

more than you might think. have seen a lot worse done to ours. not smart to video. as for what they did. it just helped recruiting. semper fi. as for john mccain, i respect his service and he has his opinion. i served and say good for the devil dogs.

george--I'm still serving, and I'll happily stand behind these Marines while they see this through. They did something stupid, not criminal, and they deserve a fair discipline and a chance to redeem their honor, self-respect and careers.

"Stupid is as stupid does". Do you and the few others whose posts' reflect a total rejection of morality and the American sense of fairness and high ethical standards ever really think about what you are saying? Apparently not.

American sense of fairness is a good way to get shot especially when the other side doesn't believe in it. If you want high ethical standards then take your share of responsibilty for sending these young people into this situation. War is the total rejection of morality. NC Wizard YOU & I put them there. Are you willing to look into your soul for the sin of sending them there in the first place.

Next time, spread a little pig blood on the muslim terrorist bastards that were earlier trying to kill the marines. So what,War is hell.

D McMillen - Very good points.

D McMillan

Agree! Those guys should get a warning and move on. That is/was the enemy that would have done the same to them. Military Code my ass! Why is this always applicable to our guys and not to the enemy???

Piss on the Taliban and the rest of those jerks! And whoever send this crap to UTube should get hung for extreme stupidity.

Differnet-----THANK you very much for the information you posted. This was a disgusting display on the part of the Marines involved

Jean-339247

It's easy to tell you're appalled at the actions of these young marines. Ceratinly what they did is not to be condoned.

But exactly how does their act fit into this requirement:

c. Comment.
(1) This offense is designed to criminalize only the most serious conduct.

(2) To mistreat or otherwise violate ... requires severe physical desecrations, such as dismemberment, sexual or other defilement, or mutilation of dead bodies, especially if publicly displayed, that, as a result, do not respect the remains of the decease

To show contempt for an enemy is not the same as to desecrate them.

OotRascal... Let the military courts decide if the case has merit. Not some politician.

I guess the hypocrisy is all in who ordered it. When I was at DaNang I observed cargo nets full of viet cong brought in from operations slung underneath CH46 Sea Knights in nets then dropped next to the helipads where they were laid out for commanders and dignitaries to view and photograph showing the high body counts from our efforts....When the dog and pony show was over they would be bulldozed into trenches by CB's and burnt and covered.

I saw patrol amushes were the bodies of dead VC were staged in various positions simulating sex acts on each other. I saw scalping, dismemberments.....

I observed a LRRP patrol from the 101st ABN DIV bring a body back hanging under a UH1 with smoke grenaded taped to him to signal a confirmed kill.....

All previously mentioned acts supported by command staff and applauded.....

So pardon me if I dont tear up and cry a good one over a few Marines taking a wizz on a dead terrorist.

Especially after seeing the video of Daniel Pearl being beheaded, and young afghan women being stoned to death.

My sympathy nerve must be out of service.

@ differnet

My point is that these actions don't rise to the level requiring a military tribunal and or court revue. In which case the very most which should have been considered is administrative discipline.

Now with all the intervention visa vie the media, self appointed morality monitors, and politicians this non-affair has been blown out of proportion.

OotRascals... and you understand what it means to be a military personnel how? You don't seem to understand that what they did was disobediance to legal orders, violations of the UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions and the Law of War? Maybe an Article 15 would suffice, but they took the risk of filming their stupidity. That brought them into further disobediance. Criminal infraction on top of criminal infraction. I still say let the military sort it out and not some politician.

Mussels Are Required Intelligence Never Expected.

I could,nt help myself . I love them , and i am glad i am not one of them.

They can piss on me just don't kill me i am still making mortgage payments.

semper paratus and semper fi till the day i die.

If you would read the comments section, you'll notice that pissing on the corpse doesn't even come close to fitting.

Differnet

I know because I served. You, a quite a few other people here, and a lot of the Bozzos in the media, keep throwing out phrases like UCMJ and Code of Conduct's conduct unbecoming; the problem is if they and you knew of what you speak you wouldn't be throwing them out there as support for your argument.

OotRascals, funny.. I was JAG. That's how I know. My job included TEACHING and ENFORCING the Law of War, Geneva Conventions and the UCMJ.

And what bothers me most, is that you guys are willing to throw out the fact the the USA is the Good Guys whenever it becomes inconvenient. We are better than the Taliban, that's why we don't act like them.

differnet

Very good... then you should have no problem pointing out the article which deals with and shows that what these young mean did is a crime.

Oh and just in case I'll even help you out just a little.. being ex JAG you are probably already aware that the UCMJ draws it authority from the Manual for Courts Martial, so I won't ask you to waste time searching for something your not going to find in the UCMJ.

Heck I'll even go one further I'll provide you with a URL to the manual just in case you happen to have lost your copy.

there you are

Happy hunting

Differnet

for some reason the info I did provide (URL0 disappeared form my text after I posted it

http : // www . apd . army . mil / pdffiles / mcm . pdf

just get rid of the spaces

Oh, mr. I hate military people is back. You never answered the question: did you get kicked out, rejected, get your ass kicked by a soldier, or did some troop take your girl?

He is mad because DADT was in place and kept him from enlisting, he feels cheated nnow.

LOL!!!

Lourdes, we can only hope that you are still of draft age.
The current treatment of the military, by the current administration, will almost certainly require the reinstatement of the draft.
I would love to see those people that encouraged the traumatic changes in the military to be drafted.
You could them become part of the effort to enrichen the military.