Not all children learn the same way. The same as adults don't all want to work the same kinds of jobs.

Education should find a way to evaluate children and help them learn in the best way for them. I don't believe there are children that cannot learn. There are children that need a different way of learning.

All children can learn if not put in a cookie cutter model.

I think this is a step in the right direction. Let's hope the states can learn from the mistakes of the past and help ALL children to grown and learn.

"Under No Child Left Behind, schools that don't meet requirements for two years or longer face increasingly tough consequences, including busing children to higher-performing schools, offering tutoring and replacing staff."

Now the truth comes out. The teacher's unions protect bad teachers, and Obama wants to protect the unions.

That's not the entire reason, but it's a big part of it.

We have to accept two simple possibilities;

1 - American children cannot compete with foreign students in other countries because they are just not very intelligent.

2 - We have a poorly designed school system that caters to special interests.

I believe it's the latter, but teachers unions will use their political clout to prevent any changes - they love the 'status quo', and Obama needs the support of the unions.

Rado2345

The idea behind it was.... nobel.

Uhhh Rado, concerning the education system of this country and just as an FYI, that would be spelled "noble".

adjective. lofty - grand - gentle - stately - sublime - high-minded

obama care, no child left behind,no using super PACs...what a bunch of shovel ready crap

Get off your high horses. You don't know how to fix things so you blame the most public figure.

Schools are run by states and cities. Yes, the Federal government tried to raise the standards of schools by the No Child Left Behind which was enacted before President Obama was put in office. Now he is trying to fix the mistakes of the past and all you can do is whine about it being The President's fault that states cannot meet those standards.

You either want states to have rights or not....Stop flip-flopping your complaints please.

Deborah S. "Not all children learn the same way. The same as adults don't all want to work the same kinds of jobs. Education should find a way to evaluate children and help them learn in the best way for them. I don't believe there are children that cannot learn. There are children that need a different way of learning...All children can learn if not put in a cookie cutter model."

While that's true, it is still the way it's done in other parts of the World - including the most successful systems. The problem is that we have a poorly designed system and poor discipline in our schools, but the teacher's unions use their political clout to prevent any meaningful changes.

The solution is simple - stop catering to special interest groups and copy the most successful systems in the World.

Insuring that all students are proficient in reading and mathematics is a laudable and achievable goal. However, it is incompatible with a system that doesn't allow schools to get rid of students that are disruptive or not interested in learning. Either the goals or the system must change.

@ROY WILSON - I think you have a good point, but until our culture as a people makes us raise our children the same as other countries, that won't work. We have too diverse a society to make one system work.

That's why children should be evaluated to see how they learn best and be put with teachers that excel in that type of teaching. That is how our children will grow and learn and have respect for themselves.

Children that are told constantly they are dumb will start to believe it and not try anymore. Help them to learn in a way that is good for them and we will become a country of brilliant people.

Deborah S. " We have too diverse a society to make one system work...That's why children should be evaluated to see how they learn best and be put with teachers that excel in that type of teaching. That is how our children will grow and learn and have respect for themselves."

I would agree with that. We also need to have separate education tracks for students based on their abilities - not all students are destined for college. Unfortunately, that idea runs counter to the faulty assumption that all children have equal capabilities. We also need to ensure that only the best and brightest teachers are retained, but the flawed 'tenure' system is counterproductive in that regard. There is no such thing as 'tenure' in the private sector.

For some folks... it's politics as usual. Everybody wants to blame the President for No Child Left Behind. That's fair, just make sure you are blaming the right President.

Rick Perry and a host of other Republican candidates want to do away with the Department of Education. While this appears to be a lofty goal on the surface, deep down this would mean an end to federal funding for education. That solves a very small part of the national debt burden, but shifts that burden onto the states that will then have to pick up the slack. (think higher property taxes, sales taxes, etc. here).

IMHO, education is the most important line item we should be funding in the federal budget. We spend trillions on the military, homeland security, corporate welfare, etc. while some folks want to dissolve the D.O.E. If you want to compete on a world stage, you need to have the best and the brightest. The only way to get there is through education.

Bob-429579 "Rick Perry and a host of other Republican candidates want to do away with the Department of Education. While this appears to be a lofty goal on the surface, deep down this would mean an end to federal funding for education."

It's a bit more complicated than that. The states would have even more funding for education if the money wasn't diverted from the states through taxation and left with the states to begin with. When the extra taxes used for education have to run through Washington, it's reduced by the inefficient Federal administration and comes back with 'strings attached'.

That's the REAL argument against the Department of Education and its exploding budget.

@ROY WILSON - Those statements would be correct, but in Kentucky they passed through the Lottery on the basis that the money would go to education. The State decided that after it started making a lot of money that they needed that money in many different places. States are not as lofty as you think they are.

I can't complain about the waivers. Quite frankly, they need to grant all states waivers from the law and then the federal government needs to get out of the local education business. Ever since they stuck their noses in it, it has gone nowhere but down hill.

This law was devastating to the educational system. It is not government intervention that makes schools good, it is the community and the teachers and people in it. Father was a teacher in the system for many years and could not wait to retire from his final job as department head. There was so much paperwork from the government over the past years that teachers who played the system and pushed paperwork were rewarded, while the good ones who spent their time teaching fell behind, lost credit, and were hindered by the system. Creative individual programs that people/teachers and the school had on their own were pushed aside due to time constraints and regs. Resources that had been used to reward and accelerate the gifted were pushed aside.

I was in the grocery store last evening and over heard two older ladies talking about teaching. Since I was buying goceries for 3 weeks I was in the frozen isle for about 10 mins and they were walking behind me talking. They were both in their early 50's and were discussing why they would NOT want to be a young teacher these days. With the Union throwing them under the bus and not supporting them like they used to. And they were happy to be retiring after this year. At 52ish they are retiring! the conversation amazed me, I had to do everything I could to keep from asking what their pension plan provided for!

SO if so many states are either lined up or lining up to ask for the waiver, why don't they just get their representatives to Congress to start a repeal process in Congress?

Deborah S. "@ROY WILSON - Those statements would be correct, but in Kentucky they passed through the Lottery on the basis that the money would go to education. The State decided that after it started making a lot of money that they needed that money in many different places. States are not as lofty as you think they are."

The same thing happened in California. The lottery law required that a certain % of the lottery proceeds go to education, but the lawmakers simply took equivalent amounts from their normal education budget and spent it on their other pet projects, so the actual increase in education money was negligible. It was sold to the voters as 'helping education', but the net effect was merely funding the lawmakers pet projects. Typical politicians.

PS - When the money came back to the counties and cities, it also had 'strings attached'.

No child left behind was not perfect but, it is better than what existed before, nothing! Leaving unsupervised teachers to their own devices will be disastrous.

Who is easier to teach and educate? Answer: The child who excels easily.

Who is going to be left behind? Answer: Everyone else.

You want to see results in our education system? Longer school days and a longer school year, like the rest of the educated world!!!

Also, educators, like students, not all will make the grade. The student though, really only gets one shot at a good education. The educator, only works 180 days a year (that's one full day off for every part time day worked) and gets a retroactive pay raise! Hard, dedicated work will yield the best results.

Wait, I don't get it. Why shouldn't we punish the smart kids so that the low kids can catch up??? Kinda like punishing the rich to give to the poor, isn't it????

OR....like punishing the poor, so the rich can get richer???

I'm a strong believer in copying education systems that work well in other countries, although we obviously need adjustments because we have more cultural diversity. Here is an interesting report comparing education systems;

http://www.mckinseyonsociety.com/downloads/reports/Education/Closing_the_talent_gap.pdf

American kids and parents would NEVER accept the way kids in Asian countries treat their children (education wise). In India if you dont cut the mustard to the point where you need a 4.0 with massive extra credit just to get to a mediocre university. We are a partial society of everyone gets a trophy and everyone has to win. This would not fly in any Asian country.

@Deborah S and Roy Wilson - I remember when California had the lottery measure on the ballot and as a college project I interviewed Bill Honig,the then Superintendent of Education. When my partner and I expressed surprise that he was against the lottery since the money was to go to education, he said he was against it for exactly what did happen, all the money that was "earned" from the lottery was then subtracted from the budget so they didn't end up getting a nickle more than they did pre-lottery.

Yep, another Bush/Cheney unfunded mandate bites the dust. What is that glow from the EAST; ah, it's the dawn....Seems the further we get away from GOP RULE, the brighter things get!

ps,
don't forget, come November, we need to borrow The Dabbling Witch's Broom, and sweep the broken TEA Bags, out of our 'HOUSE'! They are SOILING up the place...

Idj "What is that glow from the EAST; ah, it's the dawn....Seems the further we get away from GOP RULE, the brighter things get!"

It has worked great for the last 3 years, hasn't it?

Thanks for my morning laugh. I'll get my violin ready for your 'excuses'.

MRZ-1191248 "The educator, only works 180 days a year (that's one full day off for every part time day worked) and gets a retroactive pay raise! Hard, dedicated work will yield the best results."

I can tell that you have never been an educator, or if you have, you have been a very poor one. I don't understand your part time day. The school day may have been 7 hours long, but counting my prep time and grading papers at home, that day was many times extended to 10 hours. I also took extra courses (bachelor and graduate level) at night and during the summer to maintain my certificate.

This does not even include the time needed outside of work hours to write new curriculum and new courses. I taught 9th grade Earth Science (college prep, advanced college prep, general level. Plus 11th grade General Science.

When I wasn't taking cousesduring the summers, I was engaged in scientific research with top researchers (Jack Horner, the PA Geological Survey), and on my own to present at conferences and to gather fossils for my teaching labs. I taught for ten years. Most teachers that I have known have done equivalent work for their fields.

Hard work on who's part sir? Education is a two-way process and requires hard work on both the teacher's part and on the student's.

In closing, at best I find your remarks iil informed; at worst I find your remarks degrading. It is my opinion that you have no clue about what a real teacher does.

NCLB is proof that the education system failed. I mean, It Failed George the simple, didn't it. Since this law passed, our kids have become less literate, and as for math... The law should be repealed. In fact, it's time for a whole lot of stupid laws to be repealed. This should be the job of our lawmakers. Horders, they are, keeping laws though they are broken, unhealthy, dangerous, and worthless.

Here's a thought. Rather than passing out waivers to bad laws, how about changing the laws instead? Hey, can I have a waiver for speeding in the desert? Hey, maybe we could apply cap and trade policies to waivers. Corporations can collect and sell waivers to whatever laws are considered to onerous or stupid to enforce. Corporations are people too. Hey, if we can now pass out waivers to get around laws, does that mean we can just get rid of the judicial branch?

@rrobeson - Yes, it would be good if congress would repeal it. Congress put it in place and congress needs to be the one to repeal it. The President can only do so much with executive order.

Contact your Congressional representatives and Senators to get it repealed.

Robin, the law was a desperate thing because the schools have been failing since at least the 70s. It has been worse since increased immigration and non-English speaking communities have taken over the resources.

All the know it alls on CA lottery ought to check. The lottery money could not be used for normal education expenses. In CA lots of money has been diverted. Our gasoline taxes and DMV fees that were to be used on roads,etc. Bond money that was passed for a specific purpose was found to be gone when the time came. The more money thrown at the system by the Feds brought more paperwork and conditions. Smart people (no always well to do) will survive. People who buy into the victim part will not.

"No Child Left a Dime"

The real legacy of George W. Bush.

@OP Rado2345

Thank goodness. That law was terrible. Punish the advanced kids so the intellectually disabled kids can catch up. Ridiculous*. Sure, that's probably not exactly what the law was about, but the fact is,* some kids just aren't smart enough to graduate. Period.

The idea behind it was.... noble. Make sure everyone has an education to be successful in life but, the application was terrible(grammatical error). Parents, get this through your head;* NOT ALL KIDS ARE THE SAME. Your kid may not be as smart as your neighbor's kid. They may not be as good at sports. They may not be as good looking, they may not be as socially acceptable. Get over it.

FTFY

Roy Wilson, you are very misinformed, and your statements are ignorant, to say the least. Here are the real reasons why our schools suck and other countries can do better:

1. NCLB forces us to cater to the stupidest, most unwilling to learn kids, or the whole school system gets shut down and everyone gets FIRED.

2. You would be surprised at the amount of kids whose parents tell them NOT to cooperate with teachers because they "do not need school" to succeed.

3. When kids do disrupt classes continually, there is not much that can be done. The bad kids do what they can to disrupt our classes, and suspension or eventual expulsion would be the best we can do. Then they move on to another school, and the process starts again. (I have even seen one kid write F@#$ You Ms. Soandso, and draw her murder repeatedly in the middle of class where his 4th grade classmates could see. The teacher or the school could do nothing, because his plan, which is a legally binding document, stated that he needed to write or draw his feelings when he started getting upset.)

4. NCLB is not a simple have 95% of kids take the test, and 95% pass. There is a grid system in which that amount of Hispanic, Asian, Special Needs, etc kids mus take and pass the test. Failure in any one area, such as special needs kids not being at grade level, can make the school shut down.

5. Schools are filled with generally very well trained teachers, but they are not now, nor ever going to be superhuman. They generally know their content very well. But how, when there is absolutely no strong incentives for the kids or their parents to learn, do they magically make the lowest of the low want to take school seriously? Believe it or not, not everyone wants to go to college, and even the most uneducated among us can see that school is focused on things that are not entirely relevant to their lives.

6. In many other countries, many kids want to learn because they see without an education, they will certainly work very very long hours for little pay, and live in small crowded expensive apartments in poverty for the rest of their lives. An education there gives at least a small chance to escape that. Teachers there do not need to be nice. They try to make it harder on students to intentionally weed out anyone not able to keep up. Some people I know have broken their own hands or legs, just to delay having to take a test for one week. Education is a bloodsport in other countries because of what is on the line. I am not exaggerating here.

Our schools are one size fits all, and not geared from middle school to specialize in tech, science, medicine, or other areas. We force educators to do the impossible task of forcing a disorganized mix of things down everyone's throat, or they get fired, while giving little or no incentive for kids to behave and learn it. In another country, if they would not jump trough our hoops, they would regret it because of their lack of future income. Here they still believe they have other options which are acceptable to them.

If we want our kids to be competitive, ditch NCLB, hold parents and kids legally responsible for disrupting our schools, and provide some schools that specialize in tech, trade, science, medicine, or other areas from at least 7th grade.

"No Child Left Behind" should have been called "All Children Left Uniformly Behind."

NCLB was crafted in such a way that it not only punished low-performing schools which were overwhelmingly urban and associated with demographics that have low educational achievement. But it also gave a free pass to white suburban schools that are traditionally associated with higher-performing, more homogenuous demographics.

This was done by using standardized nationwide testing and comparing students, schools and teachers to an arbitrary standards. This presented a virtually impossible scenario to some schools while allowing others to "relax" because the standard was far below what they were already achieving. Education researchers already knew that this would not work, but their voices were not heard. These voices cointended that the only way to properly measure academic progress is for students, schools and teachers to be measured against the same students, schools, and teachers from years past in a sort of TQM process. These voices saw it as just as important for high-performing schools to continue to improve as it was for low-performing schools to improve. Instead NCLB gave us modest improvements in inner city K-12 schools but at the same time saw incredible drops in achievement by high-performing schools in the 'burbs.

The major problem in education is that we have reached a point where well over half of all "educators" do not teach at all. A point where there are two distinct pay skills --- administrative (high) and classroom (low.) A point where classroom teachers who just want to teach kids for a career are seen as lacking in the ambition and motivation that would cause them to aspire to stop teaching and get into a higher-paying administrative position. The ratio of administrative staff (excluding food service and maintenance personnel) to classroom teachers has gone from 1:48 in 1962 to a current 1:.46. That is, there are two drones to every classroom teachers. This is how we have arrived at a system than throws the most money at education while achieving piss-poor results.

I would propose a change to a more overt two-tiered educational system. You have classroom teachers who are on a higher pay scale. Their performance is measured by comparing the progress of the same students year-to-year. As long as these are improving, teachers are rewarded. If they falter, the reason is ascertained, but in a way that does not require blaming someone. Think TQM applied to education. You propogate what is best practices while identifying and stopping counter-productive practices. We simply have to stop the process of demonization, blame, and vilification of classroom teachers as some sort of second class professionals.

This would mean that it would become more desirable to work as a teacher for a low-performing school because improvements would actually be easier than the same percentage improvements would be in a high-performing school.

If it turned out that a teacher really couldn't be effective in the cassroom, that person would have the alternative of switching to a lower-paying administrative job. But it would also start to cast the administrators as the real second class citiuzens in education. Their motto should be "Those who can, teach. Those who cannot teach administer."

Just a little illustration of how bad it really is.

In Georgia (one of the states receiving waivers) about ten years ago a school district requested and got waivers to go to year-round classes. The change was not nearly so dramatic as you might think. They kept the same curricula, the same number of classroom days, the same number of six week periods, the same teachers. The University of Georgia (arguably one of the best at training K-12 teachers) was available nearby to study the results.

What they did was to space the six weeks periods evenly over the whole year with longer "breaks" between grading periods. Parents freaked oput, protesting that they would never be able to have a family vacation again. Instead they found that family vacations were actually cheaper because they could take trips off-season.

If you were a good student and you were up to par, you got a significant break (about 3 weeks) between each grading period. You got a reading list and had to do book reports, but that was it. But if your grades were not up to par, you got no break. Instead you went over the material again with much more intensive personalized help and a much better teacher-to-student ratio. But you still had to do the reading list and book reports. It was an incentive to work hard, a way of working with slower students without holding back faster students, and a way of putting scare resources where they would do the most good.

The school system had phenominal success. They began finding students with math comprehension problems before they became failures in 9th grade algebra. The "evaporation" associated with long summer breaks evaporated. Achievement scores went up, more kids stayed in school, and all looked like this was a simple effective way to operate.

But them came the politicians. Six Flags Over Georgia, among others similarly inclined, spent a huge amount of lobbying money to get year-round education squashed. They contended that it would put them out of business. So, in Georgia, this promising solution was squashed. The school system returned to the 1860's and achievement scores, graduation rates, and other measures of teaching success plummeted back down to what they were prior to the experiment.

10 Waivers ? Why not ALL the States ?

This is sounding more and more like Mr. Obama's Universal Health Care Reform legislation.

Wait a minute, "I deserve to be re-elected".

Wasn't this the program that utilized George Bush's brother Neil's company Ignite teaching products? I seem to remember seeing something about an inquiry over improper use of federal funds recently....

Ido - did you read the article, or did you just leap directly to "Obama sucks!" as usual?

Please stop the slamming one side thing.

If you want No Child Left Behind gone... go to your Congressional representative.

My son had a teacher that called many students stupid if they didn't get it the first time. Stop trying to blame it just on the children and families.

The problem exists from the top all the way down.

If you want things fixed become active in your school system and write your representatives in your city, state, & in Washington, D.C.

If you are just complaining for the sake of it....Just stop....Please.

Notice that the 10 states that received waivers, are all key "RED" swing states that Obama will have to win to get reelected in 2012. Hum??

The NCLB law was trying to "fix" a problem created years ago by well-intentioned Liberal Democratic social engineers and politicians called "MAIN-STREAMING". For those of you that aren't old enough to know what that is, it is where "Special Needs", "Learning Disabled", "Retarded", (or whatever other name or labelyou want to use), etc. were taken out of their own "Special Education" classrooms and "mainstreamed" into classes of regular "normal" kids.

There used to be teacher that specialized in teaching and caring for these "special needs" kids. They were all in their own grouped classrooms so they didn't disrupt the instruction and learning of "Normal" kids. All the specially trained "special education" teacher positions were eliminated to save money since they weren't needed anymore. No additional resources were given to teachers to deal with this additional burden.

The Liberal/Progressive social engineers "believed" that by putting these slower, behavioural challenged children into regular classrooms that the normal children would "pull them up" and raise their self-esteem, because they would be "in real school". Instead it did just the opposite and pulled the lower achieving "normal" kids down. Kid had been sorted by ability if the school was large enough. The "smart" kids would always get Ms. X's class, the not quite so smarts would be in Ms. Y's, and the "slow" kids would be in Ms. Z's. They often used different text book for the same grade, and went at different paces. I know, I saw it first hand.

But the "All Knowing" liberal/progressives said this "wasn't fair", and "disadvantaged" the slower kids because they would always be behind and would never "catch up". They never stopped to consider the fact that maybe those kids didn't have the ability to "keep up". Remember we are all "Equal". From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Everyone gets the same, regardless of effort or ability. It's that liberal/progressive/socialist "One Size Fits All" mentality that is the problem. Look at states like CA, NY, NJ, MI where the Teacher's Union "review board" can over-ride they school system's termination of incompetent, criminal, or otherwise bad teachers, forcing the school system to keep them on staff. The one's in the new this week are but the latest example. The New York City school system has over 300 teacher sitting in "study hall", doing nothing but collecting a paycheck, awaiting outcome of termination or other disciplinary proceedings because of UNION contract rules.

Simple solution, but difficult to implement: End 'social promotion'.

RockDoctor,

You clearly missed the point of my post. No one is questioning your integrity and I apologize if I have insulted you. We have major flaws with our education system and way to many to list here.

No child left behind is the first of it's kind law that calls for accountability in our education system. Before that, there was nothing and after that there will be nothing, you don't seem to mention that in your reply. If all teacher's, as yourself, put as much time and effort as that of what you have displayed, I would have had very little to comment on. I'm guessing you must be retired from teaching, as I'm sure with your busy schedule you would not have found time at 10:30 am on a school day to post your comments.

Deborah - I am sorry to hear that your child has what sounds like someone who should not be teaching. However, I hope that it does not discourage your son from achieving success in his educational future and I hope that the one person hasn't given you a negative view point of all educators. I had many great teachers in high school and have many great professors in college right now. There were certainly those that I could care less for, but I just bit the bullet and never took a class with him/her again.

mikeymike: It's not "social promotion." It's "get the little runt out of my hair" promotion. The problem is that the courts have taken all the ability of teachers to deal with problem kids away from them. Plus, almost all parents resist any form of discipline against their kid. "Hell no, my kid would never do such a thing!" Unfortunately, if you want your kid to go to school where the school deals with troublemakers, then you have to send them to privates schools as they are allowed to require authorization to deal with the kids. Plus, they can tell the parents that if the kid doesn't do their work and behave they are out of there. But, in public schools they can't boot the kids out. Sending anyone to reform school involves a whole lengthy court process and some resistance from school administrators who don't want to lose taxpayer money that goes with the kid. Heck, it even costs them more than what the kid's share of the funding is.

On Tuesday, Education Secretary Arne Duncan said states without a waiver will be held to the standards of No Child Left Behind because "it's the law of the land."

Unless Obama grants you a waiver.

All Hail King Obama, who now claims to have the unilateral power to grant waivers to the law!!!

Witchrunner, I am very well familiar with all of what you said. Tru dat. P.S. Nice to 'see' you again, it's been a while.

Hellohowareyou "Roy Wilson, you are very misinformed, and your statements are ignorant, to say the least."

So you say that NCLB is what is making our schools fail - What was the excuse before NCLB was passed?

And then you say "It's the parents fault".

While NCLB certainly has its flaws, at least it pointed out the shortcomings in our schools and teachers - something that the teacher's unions fought against to avoid being held accountable.

Did the Bush-blamers even read the article? You know, the part about the bill passing with broad bipartisan support? Since some of you were apparently "Left Behind", that means BOTH parties supported the bill.

Regardless, the further education control gets away from the school, the worse it gets. PERIOD. Keep the tax monies (and control of them) and education policies local and people will get what they ask for. Districts that are willing to pay the price will do better and those that don't, won't.

Filtering local money through the Dept of Education, with all the waste and politics involved, is a disaster that can be solved by returning control to local districts. It was more in that vein in the past and education was much better.

Excuse me Radio-2345, but it seems as if you need to go back to school yourself learn to spell. You miss spelled Nobel. If you are talking about the Peace Prize, that is how you spell the word. But if you are talking about someone being blessed with smarts, the word is spelt Noble...And I looked it up, so don't yell at me for not doing research b4 commenting...

You just misspelled misspell, perhaps you should go back to school!

Rado: My sister teaches a course for College Freshmen who don't know how to add, multiply or make change at a cash register. The problem is that high schools graduate these idiots (a bad word but I can't think of a better one except "mentally handicapped" which means the same thing and is "politically correct" but I don't believe in changing our language just to amuse a few radicals) and with all those "equality lovers" whose programs get them into college and preserve these idiots thinking that indefinite lecturing will increase their brain power. There are technical jobs available for people who do not deserve college and they are not out in the cold, w/o them who would fix our cars? No wonder why a college degree isn't worth anything any more. Employers don't pay much attention to one anymore. Face the facts: some people are smarter than others.

Funny how corporations spend lots of money on training of how there are different people that learn differently, but when it comes to children...they are "dumb" if they don't learn the same as all other children!!!

People like think children cannot learn are not very smart.

Children like adults are not made the same. Sometimes you have to make an effort to teach.

In my school, we are constantly getting training on how to meet the needs of every child, with different learning styles, strategies, etc . . . exactly what you are talking about. The fact that all children do not learn the same way is well understood by educators and has been for some time, so please don't sit there and say that like it's some sort of revelation.

And still, students are not passing the test. Why? Because it is impossible--not unrealistic, IMPOSSIBLE--to have 100% pass rating on this. Hundreds of students in a school and there's not going to be one who, for whatever reason, does not do well? There are so many non-teacher factors and variables that come with each student that the law simply overlooks. I have a student for one hour a day for 180 days of their life. I have no power over the other 23 hours--including the 15 or so spent at home, which plays just as big a role over their educational career as the time in school does. I have students who refuse to do anything whatsoever, refuse to take notes, take assignment or books home, even refuse to bring pencils or paper to class--but when they fail, guess who the parents blame? It's always "What are YOU doing to help my child?" It's never "What can I do? What can my kid do?"

Sorry, off topic there . . . anyway, I also have no control over the many years they went through before they got to me. And yet I am expected to be accountable for them, whatever their skill and knowledge is when they get to me, with the statement that if the student doesn't pass--either because they can't, aren't able to, or don't give a rat's behind about it--it's all my fault.

Try telling me that's a fair, equitable, and reasonable way to judge our teachers.

Not all children learn the same. Not all children are college material. It's time we started accepting that fact. There are vocational/technical schools that train kids for Less "Lofty" roles, such as plumbers, auto mechanics, electricians, etc. People turn their noses up at the thought of THEIR CHILD being subjected to such, but with the crash of wall street, and more and more people looking for MADE IN USA products, those professions and others like them will be greatly sought out.

While I believe that ALL children are entitled to a good education, why should teachers spend day after day pounding their heads against a wall trying to teach Junior a basic primer? Or comprehend William Shakespeare?

Years ago, in my fathers day, such children were put in vocational schools for training. This is NOT an insult, but a way of teaching these kids how to get on in the world without a college degree.

@possum - I live in Kentucky and very thankful that the President made this decision. The reason I state what I did. My son struggled through school. He had very bad teachers and very good teachers. But as I did sit in on some classes when I could and volunteered for school events I do know what I am saying. Not all schools teach with regard to children being different.

I am happy that in your school district they do, but that isn't the norm.

When I was in school we had things like study hall for children to have a chance to do homework before going home to work on the family farm or after school activity. The children could choose to take more vocational courses if that was their interest. That's what children need now is freedom from strict guidelines to allow for differences in learning, career goals, etc.

Possum 404: You are my hero. I could not have said this any better.

Learning begins and ends at home. If kids fail in school, don't blame the teacher - blame the parent.

My kids both do really well in school. A good portion of this is directly reflected in that my wife and I both sit down with them to help with their homework. If they do poorly, it is as much a reflection on the efforts I have put into helping my child as it is my child's efforts. I have failed them and THAT is not something I am willing to accept.

We can blame the teachers for passing those failed students though, can't we.

I am sorry, but I must disagree. I know from personal experience as a student and from my son's struggles through public school. Teachers have a great or terrible effect on students. Yes, it helps if parents can get involved. My son loved learning until he started public school. He very intelligent, but opted to take his GED instead of finishing high school. He aced the GED without having to study for it. He wasn't being taught in a way that made him want to learn in school. He learned more at home from reading books and finding things out on the internet or from me.

My grandmother was a teacher. I do know their are good ones out there, but not as many as their used to be. The education system is messed up in our country.

What of children that don't have homes? It's not all of one or the other. It's a combination of both.

I have to correct my own errors. I rushed through that last post because my dog was barking at workmen next door. lol

1st correction: He's very intelligent, *speaking of my son*

2nd: I do know there are good ones out there, but not as many as there used to be.

My point is there is NO cookie cutter solutions that's why there needs to be a way to evaluate and help children learn to the best of their abilities, not some "perfect" child idea of what children should be.

When all schools learn this and do it, we will have have a great nation again. Our children will learn not to be stressed out and overworked to get the job done. They will be able to think out the solutions and improve our country.

Learning how to find information is much more important than just memorizing information.

@cowcharge: no, the decision to pass students on even if they are failing is a local school board decision and not the teacher's.

Deborah--you're right, and if it sounded like I was trying to say that teachers had no effect on students, then I misstated at some point. I don't deny the impact that teachers have. What I do deny is that idea that somehow the teacher, and only the teacher, is to blame when a child does poorly in school. There are so many other factors that can play a part, and many of them are simply beyond the scope of what a teacher or school can possibly do. And yet it seems like when a student fails, only the teachers are held accountable, and that's not right.

I guess the whole point to NCLB was to make sure that every child performed above average.

Yup, that sure makes sense to me.

Cowcharge: No you can't because parents have the final say. Many times when I want to retain a student parents say "NO".

On another note schools today believe in inclussion of all students. This means that we have children in classes that would not have attended school or been in a regular ed class. In WA state if a child is working to their full potential (up to their IQ) they do not qualify for Special Education. This means those children do not get additonal services but are still required to make standard. Tell me how a teacher is to get a child that has the cognitive function of a Kinder up to fourth grade standards let alone high school? Yes all students can learn but not all students are going to Harvard.

@possum - I agree. Many factors decide how a child will do in school.

I am happy that the President is trying to remedy at least one bad factor in the education system.

Speaking as a person on the sidelines of a school, I was a janitor in the local school district. I saw some teachers that went out of their way to help students learn, and others that gave the lesson, went over and started playing solitaire on her computer in the classroom. The other side of the same coin is that some students wanted very much to learn, and asked questions and tried. Then other students that just went to goof off and cause problems for others. The teachers were required to give the students a grade of 50 for just putting their name on the test and turning it in. One girl was passed even though she missed all but 3 days of school.

Want to fix the school system. Start by bringing back the ability to punish unruly students. If the principle or the teachers are afraid of the student or the student's parent then nothing is going to be fixed. Teachers need to be able to deal with trouble making kids. In school suspension is a joke, the student is allowed to see his friends before and after school and has all his work brought to him. Want to really punish these children. Grades are what you earn. Being disruptive in class means your sent home to explain to your parents that the teacher did not let you cuss her out for giggles. Record the classrooms, when mama or papa comes in to complain, show them exactly what was going on.

Never happen, some parents want to educate their children some want the teachers to do it. And of course blame the teachers when they fail. There are many things that add to this bad situation. My next door neighbor was a teacher for 20 years, She retired last year a tenured teacher making 84k a year full boat benefits. She retired because she felt the Union was no longer going to protect her and the school board has started making the teachers pay for their pension and benefits if they stayed on for another year. Basically they forced her to retire.

I remember a time when the ACT and SAT exams were a one time only, make it or break it proposition....now students can have as many "do overs" as they like until they get the score they want. Meanwhile, parents are spending fortunes to kids to attend special tutoring and seminars that "teach to the tests" which is what the educational system has been blasted for time and again. There are entire industries out there to get kids up to speed and parents pay out high monthly or weekly stipends for tutoring through these private learning centers because their kids just aren't getting it or getting enough in the classroom. There has been an avalanche of parents electing to home school (Not saying this is the best idea, but it is in much larger numbers than every before) I know for a fact that the state average on the ACT and SAT has dropped significantly since I took it in high school, and even the top scorers are fewer and farther between, despite all the preparation and retakes. Our education system has been watered down for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, educators should probably not be unionized as if they were truckers taking produce to market. Private school teachers usually work for less pay and benefits overall, and yet deliver better results across all ages and ethnic groups. So teachers have to take a huge chunk of responsibility for what goes on in their classroom and have to be allowed to list out the children who simply are not getting it in the hopes that we can figure out why-just passing them along for attendance has to stop. Parents have to be involved in the school activities and show their kids that it is important to them that the children put forth best effort. Make sure homework is done. Make sure that kids have paper, pencils, basic supplies-ask about and supervise homework, keep up communication through the teachers and counselors. Kids have to understand that school is their job, and doing the best they can has rewards and not doing anything has penalties. Finally, not everyone is college material, not everyone is going to be a nuclear physicist, and we have to restore the notion that skilled trades are also viable work options for those who are not proficient in academics, but have other aptitudes and abilities. We cannot continue to hold back all of our students due to lack of a standard language that we expect all of our educated citizens to be able to function in. Professional people coming to the US-like Drs etc are expected to know English and to pass our certifications in English...They come from all over the world and can meet this requirement and we cannot even get our grade schoolers to basic functional English levels.

Only thing I can say to that is..... YES your correct. But if your in middle america the situation may be easier to solve. Here in Detroit ..... its not that easy. Here a job opportunity is a few friends and a handgun. The job is taking what you have. Sounds familiar in principle!

Say I wanted 10 new houses. 1) I design the houses with everything I want (not having any training as an architect). 2) I also tell the builder exactly what tools to use and not to use as well as exactly how to build the house and what speed to work (having only limited knowledge of construction). 3) I insist that he build all the houses exactly the same way, regardless of the terrain, climate, soil, or anything else that may change from site to site. 4) The builder does not get paid for performance. Whether he does a good job or not, he gets paid the same.

Who wants to buy these houses??? This is exactly what we have in schools with politicians designing curriculum and unrealistic standards and unions insisting on strict seniority-based pay.

Britt - In school suspension should not be a "joke". Those kids should be forced to do their work, and accept their suspension - or be expelled. Elementary kids should have playground time - apart from their buddies. My opinion, after having worked with kids with some minor difficulties in their lives that cause "acting up" - or withdrawal. They may have issues beyond what a regular teacher - with 25 other kids in a classroom - should have to deal with.

To Sue 3329001, you really must not work in education. First, to compare private school teachers to public school teachers is naive at best and ignorant at worst. Private schools can kick kids to the curb that are either special education or behavior issues, and guess where they go? Yep, public school! You see, this is the inherent problem because a PUBLIC school has to take everyone. Private schools can pick and choose.

Now, I can't comment about where you are from, but where I am from, the SAT and ACT scores prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the private schools are NOT doing any better of a job than the public schools--they just have less BS to deal with so it would APPEAR they do better. But private schools do not have to provide special education services, and so they don't. They advise the parent the student needs more help than the school can offer because "our teachers don't make as much as public school teachers and we don't have a specially trained staff for this type of a student." Yet the tuition for these students is at least TWICE as much as the amount of money the public schools get to serve EACH student. And parents of these students who have "special needs" expect their student to be mainstreamed with other students because "don't you dare put my student into a separate classroom"--even though that student cannot learn at the same rate nor WILL that student even try. So many of the students that are branded "special education" are simply children of poor parenting. We are so quick to hand out labels like Behavior Disorder, Oppositional Defiance Disorder, ADD, ADHD, and so on--it never occurs to anyone to say to the parent "you had him, you raised him, you make him come to class and behave." No, no, no--this is put right back on the teacher--the PUBLIC school teacher, not the private one.

So don't give me that BS about teachers earning more in public than private school and private schools being better. First, public school teachers put up with so much more crap, they DESERVE some extra! Its easy to look like you do a great job in those private schools when you have relatively little challenge in doing it!

Possum 404: I was right there with you, until you said you had the kids for 1 hour a day for 180 days. You may have them for an hour but the school has them longer.

My child is at school 7 hours a day and that is without including before or after school tutorials or any extra-curricular activities. My high schooler gets anywhere from 8 to 10 hours of sleep a night. You factor in showers, hair, eating, driving to-and-from school, homework, etc. A parent who works spends anywhere from 3 to 5 hours with their children before bedtime. During that time it's dinner, homework, baths, laundry, etc.

When I go to my kids' schools, what I see is teachers who don't seem to understand simple child psychology or have the ability to formulate a cohesive sentence to save their life. Don't even get me started on spelling and grammar. And yes, I've thought, 'this person is actually responsible for teaching my child'. I hear teachers say, 'we aren't babysitters' and I think 'we don't want you to be'. I am personally tired of the arbitrary rules the schools impose on students and parents.

When my daughter struggled in Algebra, she went to her teacher and asked for extra credit or what she could do to bring her grade up. So, saying that kids and parents don't care is the same load of bull I've been hearing for years. My sophmore takes advantage of tutorials offered by her teachers. Schools and teachers 'say' they want parent involvement, my experience has taught me otherwise.

Both of my children are motivated to do well in school by their own accord. One has a learning disability but makes A's and B's and the other makes all A's and while they can't test him at higher levels they are pretty sure he exceeds them.

My son is in 3rd grade and this is the first year I've loved his teacher. She is intelligent and she has created an environment children can thrive in. I think it is such a cop-out to say parents and kids don't care and put all the responsibilty on the teachers. That is not the majority of kids and parents I know.

And being that you are an educator, please give us solutions. Because whenever I approach my children's schools with solutions they tell me I am more than welcome to run for the Board of Education.

Please do not insult vocational schools or their graduates. This country needs intelligent, trained blue-collar and other workers who are skilled at non-office employment, and they deserve decent wages and health care. Not everyone is happy behind a desk.

The bankers and politicians who screwed this country were all college graduates.

I was bored to death in class in the late 60's, I could and did miss most of my classes and showed up to pass and ace most tests. I decided to quit in my junior year and took and also aced the State GED test top 1% of the nation. I then joined the military and learned some discipline. Long story short, when I was discharged and started college I was ready and graduated with a 3.85GPA. I have been pretty successful in my life, but I can see an entire group of young people who feel entitled to a part of what ever someone else has with out grinding out the work to get it. This is not only the teachers faults its is the entire environment's fault from the Parents to the unions/schoolsystems. We have an under-educated but entitled generation that EXPECT success with very little effort. P.S. My Career is in Telecom/Networking my Degree is in Culinary arts. Money makes for a comfortable life, but cooking brings the women around. LOL!

Square Dude,

I agree with the first and last parts of your response. It is the thought of having the dumb misfits head for vocational training that I have isues with.

How would you like to have your disruptive student with your bare education wire your house?

Or maybe this misfit should be a mechanic and reprogram the computer on your $40K vehicle carrying your infant child.

You don't need to read to be a welder you just have to be able to put metal together. Oh! The drawing specified a certain welding rod on your local bridge. So sorry for the loss of your familiy as a result of the brige collapse.

You had better hope that the plumber that plumbed your house calculated drain pipe size and pitch correctly. I think you know where this is going, or where it will go!

Please take some comfort in knowing that the nurses training was just the bare bones math class on dosage and the metric system ( that wasn't required) that led to the premature death of your elderly mom.

Todays vocational training is so complex and demanding academically. It needs to be in order to be able to deal with todays technology.

I beg to differ that vocational training is the answer for all those problem , uneducated, misfit students that are not ready for 4 year college programs.

Dedication, hard work, honesty and integrety as well as pride in the work that you do is not the problem. It is the lack of these essentials skills provided by a vocational education that the rest of these 4 year college bound students students are missing.

Case in point what do the following have in common?

Banking scandals, Wall Street corruption, Medical fraud and corruption and last but not least Politicians.

The essential skills taught in a VOCATIONAL EDUCATION!!!!!!!

I truly don't think anyone is trashing the vocational training options, but rather mourning the fact that we don't encourage more students to consider them. I know for example that my neighborhood plumber, electrician, HVAC servicer, auto mechanic....they all earn more than I, and I have the degrees. Somewhere along the line society decided that you weren't doing something valuable with your life unless you were college bound, which is absolute nonsense as we all need people to fix our cars, keep our homes in safe and good repair, build additions, modernize older things. Some folks are gifted with the ability to fix things (I know that my husband isn't one of them), so I am most grateful to those who are trained to make sure my furnace is working and doesn't affixiate my family with toxic gases, or make sure we can turn our appliances on and off without starting a fire or lighting up like a Christmas tree. And we have seemed to totally lose the notion of craftsmanship. I for one am tired of seeing mass produced, shoddy furnishings and cabinets-one size fits all, ready made. I would be overjoyed to have somebody who actually knows what they are doing to use the space I have and make the proper cabinetry to fit the space and my needs...we just don't seem to instill in our youth that these are wonderful career options. Those youth go on to be hiring managers and supervisors with the prejudice that a college degree is essential for every occupation.

It's quite apparent from seeing all the spelling and grammar errors in the comments to this article that the American education system is failing and has been for some time.

Actually, I think it is a technological issue. Text language, and so forth, has all but eliminated the hard work teachers did to teach us appropriate grammar. I think its awful that on the first class day in COLLEGE, my instructors had to tell people no slang or text language in your papers. Most of them had it bold and underlined on our class syllabus "No slang or text language will be accepted in your papers. NO EXCEPTIONS."

The fact that this has to be said at all is a good indicator of where our govt' has real issues coping with education.

The insanity of your statement is overwhelming.

He gives power to the states and that's supposed to be his being a dictator.

Oxymoron much, Chef80?

it's not an oxymoron, he took action on his own because congress didn't move fast enough for his liking. it isn't the first time and i'm sure not the last. it wasn't the subject of the order. it was the reason that he did it. I'm sure he waited this long so he could play it during an election year. This could have been done after he took office.

So, to help those that have trouble comprehending. The problem isn't that he made the executive order to help states. The problem come from him by-passing due process to achieve his agenda during an election year.

@Chef80 - came not come.

If Congress and the Senate would work instead of being on vacation all the time, he wouldn't have to make executive orders to get things done.

He's been hoping they would act, but they haven't. Now he is, while he has the chance to do it. He doesn't know if he will be re-elected or not. He is hopeful I am sure. But if Congress and the Senate are not going to do their jobs, he wants to make as many improvements as he can while he can.

You can spin it any way you want, but that's how I see it. He wants to make a difference that will improve life for ALL Americans while he can.

I am sure I have grammatical errors in many of my posts too. lol

Thank you for catching that grammatical error. I missed my window to correct it before i got back to it. And it isn't came instead of come it was suppose to be problems not problem. Make sure you establish correct context before making one of many possible "corrections". I don't have to spin anything. He waited until he could do something unchallenged to by-pass congress. It's a simple fact that you seem to read too deeply into. The fact that he waited until election year to do this, or even attempt it, leads me to believe that he is in-genuine in his actions and will obviously cut corners to further his agenda regardless of opposition. The fact that you freely admitted that you too see this should be a concern. You see it only as NCLB being wavered not him using his position to gather support on something that could have been taken care of years ago but waited until his approval rating and re-election prospects were in question. Coruption is what it is and the whole lot of them needs to be replaced. Even Hitler thought he was doing what was best for his country.

@Chef80 - I cannot read your mind as to what you meant to say. I just corrected what you DID say. You are welcome. ;)

You seem to think that he hasn't had many other things more important on his mind during the first 3 years of his office. I believe he's been working hard and not getting much help at making a recovery for us, the American citizens. Until you are in his position, I think it's arrogant of you to assume he put it off for election purposes. He has one of the toughest jobs in the world. One of, maybe not the toughest. Everything he does is scrutinized by people daily.

Try not blaming him for everything and applaud him when he does something good. We need more positive in our world right now.

This is something good and instead of making a blanket move he is taking things on a case by case basis. He's working smart not just giving in to everyone that complains.

I have great respect for him. I know he's not perfect or made all the right decisions, but at least he's trying to improve things while he can.

What are you doing to improve things?

it's not an oxymoron, he took action on his own because congress didn't move fast enough for his liking.

It is has only been since 2007,ummm, we are now in 2012. How long must he wait for Congress to act?

I suppose that a few broad sweeping edicts would have the same overall outcome and effect as hundreds of smaller items chipping away at our liberties in little bits and hunks.

The executive action by Obama is one of his most prominent in an ongoing campaign to act on his own where Congress is rebuffing him.

wait for it...amnesty....er i mean... "immigration reform" in obama-speak.... is next

@Chef80 - came not come.

If Congress and the Senate would work instead of being on vacation all the time, he wouldn't have to make executive orders to get things done.

Well, while you go about "correcting" someone else, maybe you should learn that "Congress" consists of the House and the Senate.

And speaking of "vacation", Obama is the vacationer-in-chief!

While you are Lieing DOC you might want to do some research , or just keep being a republitard . It really is your choice . Thats about the Vacation thing . you know that s a lie and you keep saying it .

May your comment reach and be at the top of the Newsvine.

Jack Knowlton...Excellent post....I couldn't have said that any better...

That'll teach Republicans to compromise on liberal ideas. Ted kennedy was pushing for this for years before Bush was elected.

Jack - did you read the article? Did you see the part about "broad bipartisan support?" Do you know what that means?

Based on the rest of your post, I assume you don't know what it means.

No Child Left Behind was co-authored by Democrats George Miller and Edward Kennedy. It passed 384-45 in the House, and 91-8 in the Senate. Strong bi-partisan support? Closer to unanimous support. But how typical of idiots that post to ignore the facts for their own biased ideology.

When it comes to wars there are as many Democratic Party Presidents with blood on their hands as Republican. The Vietnam War is the perfect example. But no surprise that the idiots that post have memories that began on January 20, 2001, and end on January 20, 2009. To those idiots everything wrong or bad happened during that 8 year period, and everything since has been great.

The Democratic Party just loves those Kool-Aid drinkers.

Jack,

If we will be paying for Bush for the next twenty years, than how long will it take to pay for Obama? After all he has surpassed Bush's total deficits and debt in only three years! Enough said on that subject.

The article says there was "widespread bi-partisan support" for changes to no child left behind but congress has yet to act. That does not give license to the President to ignore the law, nor to circumvent it. Obama has a Richard Nixon mentality that the law only applies to him if he chooses it to be so. we see examples of this in the legal fight against Arizona and other states trying to enforce immigration laws, in the recent reversal on contraception in HCR and now this act. While his motives may be for the greater good, he is assuming authority not granted to him by the constitution and is in violation of the separation of powers provision contained there in.

Rick,

Good post on the numbers for no child left behind. I would add however that there are actually more Democratic Presidents with blood on their hands than there are Republican. I believe the total is actually three more, but I will have to track down the article to be sure.

@donewntcrzy - this is some of the most insane talk yet. You complain the President has too much power and then talk like he controls the states, cities, etc. that decide what to do with the money given to them.

If a school system misuses it's money...it's not the President's fault.

Grow up and stop blaming people for things that have nothing to do with them.

donewntcrzy

What was you going to do Mr.President arrest everyone?

If I were you I would not be forwarding the idea of cutting school funding.

You can always put the classes in portables. That's an automatic money saver there.

@donewnt: The law establishes that money raised for building must be used entirely on building...it cannot be diverted to other uses. The 2 million must have been raised for the addition, consequently it must be used for such.

Our local public grade school has been on the state watch list for not meeting standards for at least 6 years that I am aware of-perhaps more. Funny how it isn't being held to any sort of accountability and the problem continues from school year to school year despite required standards. They did (our school district) attempt to slide an even lesser desirable solution to this failure problem past the voters in the district. They tried to claim that the school, (which does happen to be one of the older structures in the district) was too old to rehab and inadequate, so they wanted to shut the school down and take all the under performing students and disperse them throughout the rest of the district to dilute the impact of the failure among the schools that are working properly.....The voters got wind of it, and the school is still open for business, despite being even a few years older than when they first considered shutting it due to "age"

Too many miss the point that spending more money does not make for a better education. That fact has been proven for the past 30-40 years as we spend (waste) more and more money and get poorer and poorer eduction.

Cut back on school administration, instill discipline in schools, stop social promotion, recognize differences in students, quit worrying about little Bobby's self-esteem, and quit giving everyone a 1st-place trophy.

Encourage vocational education, encourage private schools, encourage magnet schools, encourage students, and encourage parents to engage in their childs' education. Put the teachers back in charge of the schools, not the kids nor their whiny parents.

Yes, we must make sure that everybody is above average.

How many of you can see a problem with that?

Above average? At this point, I'd be happy with average. My kids passed the California high school exit exam, first time. It is at a 10th grade level, at best. My one kid is a math moron (apple doesn't fall far from the tree), and STILL passed first time.
Would really like to see GOOD vocational programs teaching viable job skills. Per the US Census, only about 30% of US citizens graduate from a 4 year college. Fix the high school drop out rate, offer good vocational school programs asap. Give kids hope.

Cassandra - you are correct. We have to challenge each kid at the level and area where they are, not some lowest common denominator.

Our schools are not going down the toilet due to a lack of funding. Educational dollars, even with cuts, are at an all time high! Money is not the real issue, accountability is. The quality of teaching is getting poorer, the quality of discipline in the classrooms is becoming a joke, and the same screaming people that want improvements or better teachers are the same ones that will call a teacher on the carpet for disciplining an unruly or disruptive student. Our educational goals and policies are so screwed up, it has become inevitable to see some schools fail. We need to allow educators to be educators, to let them have the authority to discipline when necessary without fear of losing their job. We need to make those teachers accountable for poor general performance of students but also have available help for individual students that are the exception not the rule in a classroom.

I see the same problem in my daughter's school system. More money for testing has to come from somewhere else.

Well now that these States "promise" to do a better job, I'm sure public education will be all better now. I'm sure we will see all the politicians removing their children from private schools and sending them to these soon to be utopian public schools now, too. Yeah, right. ROTFLMAO!!!!!

If there are real issues... modify the law! This to me is just another example of Obama's attempt to continue his 'dumbing down' of the country!

The tests are not cheap, and the test booklets aren't free

maybe online testing can lower costs...

Zathrose - good point there.

juju - sensible, but I'll bet they are afraid some schools would cheat. Some cheat already, computer testing would make cheating to up results too easy.

Not really. Computers Programs need to written, technicians employed, computers and software updated, standards rewritten and correlated, server space allocated, counselors and teachers would need to be trained, and then, all of the results would be printed out in hard copy anyway. Sounded good on the surface, kindof like NCLB.

It doesn't help that much of the resources allocated to school districts, and individual schools , have very little to do with actual classroom education. So much is spent on social services type of program and personnel....Do we want our children educated or analyzed at school? As far as cutting other programs, public education was never meant to be free education. Yes, there is support from the federal and state government, as well as the individual school districts. Quality of schools do vary, but you also have to look at what some districts are willing to pay in taxes to support their schools. If the government allots the same number of dollars to educate each student, then the difference has to be attributable to the other resources available to schools such as higher property taxes and property tax valuations, which is probably the biggest reason why we shouldn't be funding education through those means, because it automatically puts children from more modest backgrounds at distinct disadvantage.....However, as there are many dedicated teachers and committed parents and serious students-even a financial disparity is not the total explanation as there are children in inner city schools and less wealthy rural consolidated schools who manage to excel.

everything cost less in the 40's and 50's what

topside--you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. No bad students? Please. Step into any public school in the country and it will take you about 5 minutes to change that. Yes, there are bad teachers out there, but they are only one-third of the equation. Without willing students and supportive parents, even the best of teachers face an uphill battle with students, even those who want to be there.

The fact is, NCLB required 100% passing proficiency OR ELSE. And I don't care how good of a school, district, or teacher you are, that is unrealistic. Some kids don't care, refuse to take the test, come to school right after witnessing a parents' fight, or hungry because they didn't get breakfast again, or dealing with abuse, or whatever . . . and the last thing they care about it taking the test. So they bubble in whatever they want, and the school still gets dinged for it. Face it, NCLB was crap legislation written by people who had no idea what they were doing.

• no bad students just bad teachers huh? how's about bad and lousy parents who dont give a rats ass about education and let their kids roam the streets and do not make them do homework nor even to go to school. boy take your head out of your brown hole. teachers can only work with the genetic dna that is presented to them. and you sound like one of those retards who dont learn anything.

"There are no bad students, just bad teachers." Obviously, you have never spent time in a public HS classroom. That statement is pure BS!

topside, possum hits it on the head,so to speak. In addition to his/her comments, your statement that we had better teachers in the 40s and 50s for half the cost is pretty meaningless since we had a whole lot of things then for half (or less) the cost. Something else schools had less of were unruly students in the classroom, (they were simply allowed to drop out of school and work in the local grocery or filling station), virtually no meth or crack or alcohol syndrome children to deal with or a whole lot of other social issues to deal with. The requirement that 100% of the students had to be proficient, (basically saying that every child had to be average or above) was preposterous from the start and has not been done anywhere or even is any other field of life. The fact is that everybody is different,with differing abilities and there will always be achievement gaps in all areas of life including education. We need to recognize this and work to improve the opportunities for learning for all of our children but stop expecting them to have the same results. Can all children learn? Sure. But they will not all learn at the same rate or even to the same levels in all subjects.

"There are no bad students, just bad teachers."

That is about as incorrect (although I would like to use a much stronger word here) of statement that I have heard recently. Of course there are bad students – I teach them every day in a major University! I see them in my child's elementary school classroom!

Don't get me wrong...there are some really lousy teachers out there. But there are really lousy parents out there, too! When a parent does not engage their children in learning, or provides a home atmosphere where learning is not a priority, or freely denigrates teachers when their children do poorly in school, while loudly insisting that teachers are the root of all evil, why should we expect our young people to believe that education has any value?

NCLB was (and is) a horrible law...but mostly because its main purpose is to blame someone else for our society's failure to teach the value of education to our children. As a college professor, it is very clear that we are now looking at a broad generation of young adults who believe that knowledge and skills are something that is provided for them (i.e. given to them by a teacher) rather than something that they earn (i.e. learned).

But remember, this is a symptom of our whole society. NCLB is a horrible law, but it is not the cause of the problem. The push to make universities behave like for-profit businesses is helping to perpetuate the believe that knowledge can be gained simply by paying a fee, but it is not the root cause of the problem. The root cause lies more in our society having moved away from the basic values of responsibility and respect.

No bad students-- are you serious?? Maybe that was the case in the 40's (doubt it), but that certainly is not the case now-- there are many, many factors that influence our public school system's extensive problems. Some teachers are bad, some students don't want to learn, some come from bad economic and family situations, some schools suffer from lack of funding, some have violence and little parental involvement... placing all the blame on teachers is ignorant, to say it politely.

topside - NO bad students?! Where do murderers and other criminals come from? Were they born angels and teachers ruined them during 3rd period English or 4th period science class? What about children who are born from drug addicted mothers? As a teacher, would you please provide me training to fix all organic brain disorders so that I am qualified to teach all the good students that I have enrolled in my classes? Would you please call my students' parents and ask them to feed them and keep them warm and safe the night before we give tests so my students can show up rested and able to focus? Would you ask parents not to neglect, abuse, or model criminal behavior in front of their good children so that I can teach them and they can trust me instead of resent, fear, or even hate me?

In my 20+ years of teaching, largely in midwest suburbia, I have had students who have witnessed one parent murder the other, who heard a parent commit suicide over the phone, who have been molested by brother, father, uncle, or weird neighbor guy, who have watched a parent die of cancer a day at a time, who have moved so much that they have attended more than a dozen schools, who have been homeless, and I can't imagine what my colleagues in the inner cities face.

And seriously, did you just compare today's world with the 1940s or 1950s? Are we comparing blackboards and pencils to laptops with the internet? Who do you think has a broader range of knowledge?

Thanks for judging me and my abilities as a teacher using only one yardstick, and apparently a yardstick that was constructed in the 1940s or 1950s.

topside: to insinuate that the only reason we have problems is because of the teachers is probably the most insane thing i have ever heard. my mother is a teacher in minnesota and so WERE many of my relatives (even going back to the 50's). no child left behind was absolutely terrible for advancing education. in concept - great idea, in practice - terrible and every single one of my relatives agrees. i have a seven year old son who reads 2-3 grades (EASILY) above his grade (1st) and unfortunately, he gets no real help in the classroom as his teacher is stuck helping the kids that are barely reading at pre-school level. there are outstanding teachers out there, but unfortunately they have to deal with children with intelligence levels ranging the gamut. the problem is that NCLB forces the smarter ones to learn on their own more than in my day which ultimately leads to lower test scores and something missing from their education.

There are no bad students, just bad teachers.

that's just opposite of blaming the students. I rather blame the "JOB" instead of the student or the teacher. This way there's no bias because there's no one to blame. It's a bad job if there's a bad student or a bad teacher. The end.

p.s. did you filled out your time card? ... see?

There are no bad students, just bad teachers. The bill was intended to end the practice of passing the problem forward, promoting without accomplishment. We had a much better quality of teacher for half the costs during the 40s and 50s.

~We also had a much better quality of parent for half the costs during the 40s and 50s.

So the student who broke his teacher's ribs this week in one of the high schools in my city is just misunderstood. The teacher had it coming?

The bill was intended to end the practice of passing the problem forward? Really? No... the bill has enabled the problem of passing the problem forward. Pass the kid with a D even though they did not earn the grade so we can look "proficient" on paper and keep our funding. That is what the bill promoted.

No one is allowed to fail by their own means anymore. I've had several of my son's teachers call me over the years wanting me to take up the slack for my son's lack of motivation at home. I had tried everything short of beating the kid to try to motivate him. Nothing worked. So, I told every teacher that it is not my school work to do and if my son is continually not doing his work, fail him. It's as simple as that. The kicker is that when I finally got a teacher that was willing to fail him for a core course, and he finally had to pay for and go to summer school, you know what summer school was? It was a credit recovery course taken on the computer that he finished in 1 week. He actually finished the class in 3 days, but you were required to at least be physically present for 1 week.

As for "everyone learns differently", then why don't we test the kids in early elementary school to find out if they are a verbal, written or visual learner? Then you group these kids together, pair them with a teacher that understand the classroom learning style and let it follow them through the system.

Lastly, get some real discipline back into schools! I remember when kids would get the paddle if they were unruly. Rarely did we have any outbursts in class. I also remember a time when if the kid got in trouble at school, the parent would punish the kids for getting in trouble at school. Instead, the parent(s) rush down to the school to demand a reason why the kid was punished, have the punishment reversed or sue the school for having the gall to punish their precious little angel.

Students behave poorly for a number of reasons, among which is frustration at being unsuccessful at a task. It is also due to lack of parental support, a lack of general respect for authority. The strange notions that everyone has to be a winner and we are never allowed to say anything negative is probably really high on the list, because guess what....? Kids don't learn how to handle disappointemnt and frustration in positive ways. Kids don't learn that everyone has strengths but not all of them are the same. There is no sense of obligation among students. Homework doesn't have to be completed. You don't have to pass tests. If students don't participate in daily assignments and prepare for tests, how does one determine what, if anything, they have learned? And lets face it, life is a series of competitions, and no amount of warm fuzzy speak is going to change that. Ten applicants for one job is a win/lose situation. Three bidders on one house is a win/lose situation. Our present educational notions do not prepare kids for making lemonade out of the lemons which is part of the art of surviving in life.

good students punished by bad students. sounds a lot like how unions operate. poor workers protected on the backs of the good workers.

The idea that an outstanding student, academically proficient, good citizenship, well rounded, perhaps an athelete or musician as well as student, could potentially win a portion of their college tuition through merit scholarships is pretty much gone in favor of the government's artificial formula's to determine how much of the family farm you are going to be asked to mortgage to pay for the education. Those families without a family farm go to the head of the line and receive aid without regard the ability or performance of the student in question. Our society is trying to create social justice by giving students the reward of college education. Unfortunately, many of these students are not prepared to make anything of that reward as they lack the discipline of study, the basic learning skills needed to advance....Our education system is a victim of entitlement thinking. Diploma's and Degrees have become little more than attendance vouchers.

I am SO sick of hearing about teachers unions being the downfall of education.

Compulsory schooling has been, from the beginning, a scheme of indoctrination into the new concept of mass man, an important part of which was the creation of a proletariat. According to Auguste Comte (surely the godfather of scientific schooling), you could create a useful proletariat class by breaking connections between children and their families, their communities, their God, and themselves. Remember William Harris's belief that self-alienation was the key to
successful schooling! Of course it is. These connections have to be broken to create a dependable citizenry because, if left alive, the loyalties they foster are unpredictable and unmanageable.

http://www.school-survival.net/articles/school/history/The_tyranny_of_compulsory_schooling.php

The entire system needs to change.

I am SO sick of hearing about teachers unions being the downfall of education.

Though not the downfall, they do protect bad teachers and that is a major problem.

Spending more isn't the answer.

We have increased our spending steadily for many years, and the quality of the end product keeps going down.

More money is not the issue. We are not using the money we are currently spending correctly.

.

The entire system needs to be overhauled. But the teacher's Union and the politicians beholden to them will never ever let that happen.

The problem is there is a teacher's union to fight for the teachers thru political connections, but there is no "student's union", other than the parents, but they aren't organized of politically connected.

Bill Gates did an experiment and broke kids down into smaller classes and the results were the same. The children did NOT get higher tests,homework. They got the same education as if they were in a large class.

Cite the data. Years of real-world experience tell the exact opposite story. There is a big difference in test scores and education. That is a problem that even many "educators" now don't understand or ignore.

When were we ever #1?

probably before you went to school Deb.

@Chef80 - Don't assume things you do not know. I might be older than you.

Topside; how about changing your comment to "There are no bad stuents, only bad PARENTS". That is much more appropriate......

i did assume you were older than me and my statement still stands. Thanks to your not #1 education you assumed that I was not able to think further than my nose and not account for that fact. But from going through these comment threads i am begining to wonder since you troll like a college activist.

@Chef80 - You are telling falsehoods. This is the first article I've posted on in days. I believe strongly in the education system being reformed. I respond to posts that I find incorrect.

When you state things that are false I am going to correct them. ;)

That isn't trolling that is being an avid reader and a person with a head on their shoulders that doesn't bend to the whims of bullies.

Please learn the difference.

About our country being #1, that was an arrogance spread long ago. All countries have good and bad education systems. The way of judging who has the best has changed many times over the years. My statement was in regards to the fact that we assumed we were #1 when often we did not even know how other countries taught their children.

Most the people I have seen troll on here I would not associate with college students. Their spelling and grammar would be more like high school dropouts.

How can it be a falsehood? I did not use a definitive or an absolute when i answered your question. Note: I said "probably", intoning that it was possible that sometime before you were born we had the best education system possible. to think that it was impossible or completely true would be absolutes and therefore, without tedious research, likely a falsehood.

Just because you have only commented on one topic today does not eliminate the possibility of you trolling. The fact that you have extensively commented on numerous threads on this single topic can be and usually is considered trolling regardless of your intent. It's ok though, it's usually only a bad thing if nothing constructive or relevant to the article is given.

I find that the shorter the answer to a question the more fervently people try to defend the question instead of taking it as just one possible answer among the many. You asked a question on a post and i gave a simple answer. I worded that answer to allow for many possibilities in being incorrect since i had no proof for or against it, but i left the possibility to be wrong non-the-less. There are many variables that could make my answer incorrect. I do not tend to trap myself in absolutes, if i can help it, as most people do. It leaves room to be able to admit being wrong when proof is given. Hopelessly trapped in a black and white society, i try to maintain the grey area even if it's just a little.

@Chef80 - That you are commenting more on me than the subject would indicate that you are the one trolling. It seems weird that almost every post I did comment to, you did also or before me.

I have stated my thoughts that the President is doing a good thing and that the education system does need reform and you just keep commenting on me. Why is that if you aren't the one trolling?

Baiting is trolling too and intimating someone is something they aren't is baiting. You may think you are getting away with something you are not.

I am responding to your statements about me...how is that trolling?

@Chef80 - You have still not answered my question to you in an earlier post.

What have you done to improve things?

I have commented on one thread after you and then we proceeded to have a conversation of sorts. The previous thread was mine to start with and you commented on it and again, proceeded with dialog. I believe i have commented on 2 threads and started one of my own in this comment section. And so that things are fair it's intimidating not intimating.

What have i done to improve things? I serve your president and those before and after, i work hard for my family and keep them safe from predators. I make sure that my children can think for themselves yet follow the established rules when conducting themselves in public. I'm doing everything i can to improve my part of America without obligation to any financial backers orlobbyists. Is it truely that important to you?

There is no doubt the educations system needs reform. Teachers need to be held responsible for teaching and not just getting kids prepared for a test. They need to do so because they love to teach and the betterment of the children that are our future. The fact that some can hide behind tenure without fear of being fired is unacceptable. The curriculum needs improved and expanded. Maybe even going as far as turning high school into an employment training ground instead of pushing every child towards college like lemmings. Break it down to academic or vocational education;some people, like myself, learn better hands on instead of in a classroom. But like everything else in a capitalistic economy it costs money and currently we don't have it. It's nice to dream though.

*smiles a lot* Yes, Chef80. It was important to me to get your actual thoughts and what you are doing to improve things.

In all debates I like to actually know how people really think, not just hear political rhetoric.

Thank you for the spelling correction and for your thoughts.

I check marked your last statement because I actually do agree with it. You made my point about we don't all learn the same in a very straight forward way. Thank you again.

Reforms I would love to see in education:

A minimum basic standard of proficiency in language and mathematics. This should translate into better performance in social science, literature, and science, because children will have the same basic tools and skills to work with.

Getting away from the notion that learning is age related and instead use a school readiness testing for the youngest students. If you are ready at 4, fine you start kindergarten based upon your readiness testing, and if you aren't ready until 6, that is fine too. This testing would also give parents a chance to know about potential problems in perception, hearing, vision that might impact their child's success in school before the child is floundering in a classroom. Readiness testing would take the age stigma out of the education equation, and then perhaps, we could make students work toward a goal of moving up a grade level instead of passing them on attendance alone.

I would want each family to have to commit to mandatory service to their children's school at registration-public education does not mean free or without responsibility and obligation. It could be assisting with janitorial concerns outside of school hours, or helping teachers grade papers, but direct involvement in their child's school. I would also want parents to be required to attend at least one meeting with their student's teacher during the course of the school year to find out exactly what is going well and what is not, and to get suggestions about what to do that improves the situation and performance.

When I was a kid, we sat for national testing every other year. It took about a week of classroom time to complete all the sections, but the information showed how the school, the individual grade level, and the students all stacked up in terms of progress when compared with their peers across the country. At that time, I was in a private school, and I didn't hear them complaining about the cost of this testing, but rather it was viewed as a way to make parents understand what was going well and what wasn't, and a way to adjust the materials taught to make sure all the basics were properly learned. The fact that private schools can do this while public schools whine about it costing too much money is amazing......(In fact, I have my child in private school-which I pay for aside from the 60% of my property tax dollars that go to support a public school system that is inadequate and failing) My private school says that they require about $3000 per student per year to educate my child, and the public schools in our district pay out about $5800 per year, per student with poorer overall results....Now the public schools have the computer labs-we don't. They have science lab stations-we don't. They have libraries in the school and our kids have to rely on the public library for research. Public school teachers have teacher's assistants, college trained assistants, being paid salaries-our teachers have volunteer parents of all educational backgrounds. The whole argument about accountability and testing being too expensive is just crazy.....we aren't supposed to measure the effectiveness of a teacher or teaching styles?

Children who refuse to behave in a civilized fashion should be, at the very least, removed from the students who can conduct themselves reasonably. All children make mistakes and errors in judgement, but to be continually disruptive, physically threatening, completely non-participatory, non-compliant, should not be allowed to continue in the mainstream classrooms. There used to be reform school for the delinquent elements before we had political correct speak. Funny thing about reform school was that alot of deadbeat parents woke up and smelled the coffee when their kids were threatened with that alternative.

OUR president (sometimes dictator) chooses to ignore the Constitutional powers granted by the seperation of powers in the name of an obstructionist GOP. This despite the FACT that the demoncrats controlled Congress for his first 2 years in office. One size fits all rarely does justice to those outside the norm. Recognizing this we should be able to make allowances for differences from the norm instead of totally negating the LAW. Today I saw Congress's approval level has fallen to 10%. Maybe fixing Congress is the answer not bypassing it!!

madashell, you don't get it. OUR President is not a dictator. He has chosen to do things even though the obstructionist GOP has tried to block his every move.

Do you remember what Orange Man (Boener) said about President Obama: "We will do everything in our power to ensure that Obama is a one-term President!"

As far as fixing Congress and the Senate, how about Term limits (8 years), let us (the voters) know who is funding your campaign, no retirement for life until you reach the actual retirement age, must have the same health care and retirement that Americans have, and last but not least how about not being able to vote yourself a raise. And I forgot, no benefits if your found guilty in a court of law of committing a Felony.

Why in the world would a 16 year old with the mentality of an infant be in school?

Yes, but the parents of these special needs children have lobbied to have them considered part of the mainstream for socialization issues without any consideration for their inability to function academically. They didn't want their children ostracized or ridiculed, but yet by putting them in situations where they simply are not able to succeed, isn't that inviting the negative attention that you wanted to avoid?

Scottpin has the best post. Teaching a child who is non-verbal and needs help toileting,revolutionary periods in history and algebra makes no sense. That is what teachers are required to do under NCLB. Study the situation before posting.

YOUR President, Scott, is a member of a party that forces public schools to accept every single kid thrown at them, regardless of needs and the drain on the system. I've watched it for over 12 years, NCLB didn't start that, it simply makes you and those the support what you and your President fund show the public what we get for that money. Perhaps if you and those like you advocated a family approach, that is to say a family takes on the cost of raising their child, not the taxpayer if there are special needs, then we wouldn't be here.

Don't start crying about the new requirement that something be delivered for all the money spent.

It was way past time for changes to be made. I applaud OUR President for bypassing the obstructionist GOP

So, tell us - which party controlled both houses of Congress from 2007 until 2011 and controlled the Presidency since Jan 2009, and still controls the Senate?

Grow up and quit eating the liberal pablum.

Free public education is a part of the American way. It was not invented in 2000 or in 2004 or 2007....

Even before there was a USA, some communities provided free education for their children. Some didn't. Jeffersonian democracy depended on an educated populace. Later, many of the people arriving here from other countries embraced the public schools as a way for their children to become "American."

Could it have been done better? Of course. And can it improve today? Of course. But using test scores on high-stakes tests is not the way to do it. Perhaps some schools that were not successful before NCLB have improved -- but I sort of doubt it. And schools that were excellent have become less excellent because of it.

Michael, you must be a Republican. And you must not be a parent. Expecting the family to completely and independently shoulder the burden of raising a special needs child is heartless and unrealistic.

With a special needs child in their family, parents need all the help and support they can get. Parenting a non-special needs child can be challenging even with two parents and a good situation at home. I can only imagine the 24-7 reality of tending to the needs of a child who can't do for him/herself.

And expecting special needs children to 'perform' on tests that the general population finds difficult is not just irrational, it is cruel.

Blame the teachers for "teaching to the test" and passing failed students to get them out of their classrooms, instead of giving them a full education that naturally includes the test material.

@cowcharge: teachers teach to the test because the school district requires them to so that they don't lose funding. The teachers are only the employees of the school board, the school board sets the direction of the curriculum. Your statements are simplistic and uninformed.

If I held back every kid who couldn't pass we would have class sizes of 70 to 1 instead of the 30 to1 that most of the teachers at my school have. I am pretty sure you couldn't handle 30 kids for even 30 minutes. 70 kids, I am sure you couldn't handle them for 7 minutes.

@Big Tee - Amen!!! Thank you from a "hands are tied" teacher!!!!

Too little too late. I requested that my son be held back when he was 8 years old and again when he was 11 ( same schoold district) he was moved on to the next level year after year while these teachers and guidance counselors were FULLY AWARE that he was not at the appropiate education level. The only thing that matters to these school districts are their percentages not their students. My son is now 15, a freshman in high school and completely lost in life!!! They had his future in their hands and botched it before he could become a teenager. This has led to low self esteem and anger issues in my teen. Thanks for nothing!!!

@therealkob: My son was the same way. I asked for him to be held back in 5th grade. I was told that was not possible because my son was passing with low Ds and they had to move him foward. I told them, no, I am telling you to hold him back. They again said no. I said he was not mature enough to pass on to middle school and he really needs to be held back. They again said no. So now my son is a senior in high school. His last report card? They gave him just enough of a grade this nine weeks to give him a 70 for the semester. One point over failing to make that ever-so-important D. I check his grades constantly and I decided since he is 4 months from being 18, there really is no reason to punish him anymore for the lack of homework, all the zeros on his online grade sheet, but he still managed a passing grade for the semester.

Teaching to a test is nothing more than expecting a basic level of skill mastery. Without that basic mastery, you cannot function in higher learning situations. There has to be a register somewhere to show how well skills have been mastered, and it has to be somewhat standardized to insure that everyone has an equal set of skills to work from-Used to be we all memorized the multiplication tables and that allowed us to work in fractions, learn long division, deal with decimals, the metric system in science, and percentages....There are just some things that you must know. There are things that are not open to reasoning them through. Tests are designed to measure the "need to know stuff" and in themselves are not bad.

Because the program was not designed for those who did homework, worked in school, had parents making sure that they complied and were not truant, it was to level the playing field for those who were not succeeding, and claiming that it was some sort of social injustice rather than a lack of effort or a lack of understanding of the importance of education.

You mean like the Affordable Healthcare Act? I wonder if Obama will give state waivers along with his cronie waivers for the healthcare law..

You're STUPID!

No, I oppose the healthcare law..

No, GKilgore was right.

No, moneyos1 is, and will be proven, right.

NO, we must simply give a crap- we must spend the time with our kids, do homework with them, show them that we care and that it's valuable to us. "Education" quality has not gone down, the level of parent involvement has. Kids are no longer disciplined, don't have self discipline or drive due to parent indiference. Teacher unions are selfish and teacher centric, but they are a reaction to parents' actions. (and lack of action)

Parents dont need to take care of their kids as long as the government does and more and more, schools are becoming indoctrination centers for the left..

This is kind of on the subject. One of my grandchildren had a teacher that sent him home with homework. After a few weeks into the year the teacher stopped assigning homework. WHY? Too many complaints from parents. So, yes, wake up parents. Your darlings need to do homework. This was 3rd or 4th grade level.

Chris, you are hitting the nail on the head everytime!

...with empty pockets.

When will people actually blame the states for the school systems in their control?

When the unions are gone. Unions will protect the worse teachers and not allow anything merit based. It's all about the dues..

Trying to blame all of one group is the problem. We have many problems ranging from the top of congress that enacted No Child Left Behind down to the home life or culture of the child.

A reform needs to happen that encompasses all of those. The problem is our culture in the USA is too diverse for quick fixes.

my dad gave a darn so much he beat me, but I believe I would have excelled regardless.

I have two children that I offer the same help and encouragement to. They are in different grades but have had some of the same teachers and were in the same school system. One does well the other not so much and yes that one gets all the extra help offered by myself and the school!

Each child does learn differently, each child has different circumstances, and teachers should teach them all. Homeless kids excel...without the same supports just saying

But two of the three are not under our control, so all that's left to us is to fire teachers.

"So sorry, but your students and their parents aren't supporting you, so you'll have to go."

I have been allowed to claim two children on my taxes, as I financially support and raise them in my home, but I have always wanted the government to tell me exactly how many other children I am raising, and yet I have no say as to whether they attend school regularly, do their homework, receive penalties for misbehavior, respect authority....You cannot centralize the rearing of children, because it involves a high degree of parental interaction, and in the absence of parents a support network of adults, perhaps grandparents, aunts, uncles, older siblings, even neighbors in some cases. I, for one, am tired of hearing how people who are poor don't receive the same chances in our society. I grew up about as poor as one can get, before the era of section 8 vouchers, food stamps, medicaid cards....my father died, and as a result, my mother had to work to provide the food, medicine, and housing...but she still made the time in the evening and on weekends to see to it that I was doing as I should with school and schoolwork-hence, I graduated grade school as valedictorian, and in the top 5% of a high school graduating class of 1000 students, and finally to graduate with a Bachelor of Science Suma Cum Laude.....I had to take tests, and I had to mind my teachers, and I had to do homework and lots of it.